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67a59e2c989a9adaca92e86d85a0c6ce
Dublin Core
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Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Anderson Bigpond
Elwood Bigpond
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml
Interview Keyword
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Pinehill
cemeteries
OHMS Object Text
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5.4 OHP-0014-01 Anderson and Elwood Bigpond OHP-0014-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Family Histories Pinehill cemeteries Anderson Bigpond Elwood Bigpond Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|13(4)|51(6)|87(2)|108(9)|117(11)|141(9)|174(1)|199(13)|228(11)|269(3)|302(8)|319(11)|350(2)|377(14)|395(8)|434(16)|463(3)|480(1)|501(11)|531(11)|559(10)|585(7)|606(1)|619(9)|632(3)|660(1)|669(11)|702(5)|741(9)|750(1)|755(6)|781(9)|797(11)|808(1)|854(3)|868(8)|896(7)|906(2)|939(8)|955(10)|983(7)|1014(9)|1050(8)|1082(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0014-01 Bigpond, Elwood & ; Anderson.mp3 Other audio 0 Elwood Bigpond Family Plot BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we’ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let’s see— BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek—on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it’d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] Discussion of the location of the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot Anderson Bigpond ; Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Clinton Cemetery ; Dub Bolin ; Elwood Bigpond ; Elwood Bigpond Family Plot ; Elwood Family Plot ; family burial plot ; Little Deep Fork Creek ; Mills Chapel Schoolhouse cemeteries ; family 243 Kellyville Area Cemeteries AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that’s—that’s been sold, too. Discussion of cemeteries located near Kellyville, Oklahoma Amos Felix ; Indian Nations Council ; Kellyville ; Kenny Felix ; Little Bucktrot ; Pat Barnett ; Winnie Cahwey cemeteries ; Kellyville 414 Geneaology Society of Bristow BM: Well alright, I’ll probably—when we get this done, they’re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There’s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. Discussion of the how and why they began the project of locating the cemeteries. Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Cawhey Cemetery ; Depew ; Gene Connolly ; Geneaology Society of Bristow ; Ofuskee County ; Okmulgee County ; Seminole County cemetery ; Creek County ; Genealogy Society of Bristow 573 Barnett Family Cemetery AB: Now, Jack Tiger—what was, don’t they have a— EB: Jack Tiger’s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It’s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? Discussion of the location of the Barnett Family Cemetery Barnett Cemetery ; Barnett Family Cemetery ; Jack Tiger ; Jake Barnett ; Lodie Barnett ; Lodie Tiger ; Patsy Barnett ; Patti Tiger ; William Barnett Barnett Family Cemetery 818 Poor Farm Cemetery AB: Now I’ve got one here I’d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now— [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! Discussion of the Poor Farm Cemetery near Bristow Barney Harjo ; Bristow ; Bristow Cemetery ; Bristow City Cemetery ; Deep Rock Camp ; Oakcrest ; Oakcrest Memorial Park ; pauper's cemetery ; Poor Farm Cemetery ; Robert Biggs Poor Farm Cemetery 926 Magnolia Cemetery Lease BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I’ve been by there but I wouldn’t know. Discussion of Magnolia Cemetery and an old lease agreement Bristow ; Harjo ; Magnolia Cemetery ; Oakcrest Memorial ; Ron Schumaker ; Roy Dunaway lease ; Magnolia Cemetery 1150 Oak Hill and Bristow Cemetery BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we’ve got—I don’t know whether you knew it—know it or not, now that would be out there at this new—that’d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they’ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn’t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they’ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen -- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? Discussion of the Oak Hill and the original Bristow Cemetery Arthur Foster ; Bristow Cemetery ; Foster Cemetery ; Oak Hill ; Sand Creek Bristow Cemetery ; Oak Hill 1341 Pinehill Cemetery AB: What did, did, oh—Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she’s buried way south of the old, the original. The one—the original cemetery, it’s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? Discussion of Pinehill Cemetery Cemetery ; Pinehill ; Pinehill Schoolhouse ; Polecat ; Sally Pinehill Pinehill Cemetery 1426 Watashe Cemetery BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you’ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there’s another question that been a’rubbin’ me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there—it’s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there’s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind—according to this party that called me—there’s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There’s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe’s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. Discussion of the Watashe Cemetery Artie Mosquito ; Bluebell ; Joe Watashe ; Kelly ; Kellyville ; Watashe Cemetery Watashe Cemetery 1644 Harry Cemetery EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery’d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got—have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile— BM: Three miles? AB: Let’s see, let’s see—be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. Discussion of the Harry Cemetery Deep Fork Ridge ; Eddie Harry ; Harry Cemetery Harry Cemetery 1902 Haydeville and Knight Cemeteries BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don’t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. Brief discussion of the locations of the Haydenville and Knight cemeteries Haydenville ; Jim Bigpond ; Knight ; Tuskegee School Haydenville Cemetery ; Knight Cemetery 2094 Bear Cemetery AB: Now where’s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I’ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. Discussion of Bear Cemetery Bear Cemetery ; Juedeman ; Roley Bear ; Tuskegee Bear Cemetery 2213 Clarence and Teddy Brown BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence—Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we’ve got, we’ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We’ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we’ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That’d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three—(pause) and I don’t—we’ve got Brown there but that’s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey’s (ph) in there, there’s another one here. Brief discussion of Clarence and Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Gypsy ; Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Teddy Brown 2338 Madison Bucktrot and the Lane Cemetery BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it’s back over here right west of Iron Post. That’s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. Discussion of the Bucktrot family cemetery and the Lane Cemetery Cling ; Edna ; Madison Bucktrot ; The Lane Cemetery ; Tuskegee Madison Bucktrot 2489 McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery BM: Now, eighty-three, now let’s see, where’s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we’ll come back in here, that’s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? Discussion of the McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery Amos McNac ; Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery ; Wally Knight Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma. BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we' ; ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let' ; s see-- BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek--on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it' ; d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] EB: I don' ; t believe that' ; s two mile, I believe that' ; s a mile (coughs) coming from Mills Chapel, you come to the corner there-- BM: Come down, so that' ; s two miles over there. EB: Huh. BM: That' ; d be--well that' ; d be a mile, actually, a mile over there. EB: And where you turn in there to go-- BM: And the road goes north-- EB: --to Dub Bolin, that would' ; ve been a mile. BM: --yep, right. A mile, okay, a mile. Okay, a mile. EB: About a mile and-- BM: That' ; s right. You' ; re right. EB: About a mile and-- BM: About a mile and a half it looks like. EB: About a mile and a half, yeah. BM: Okay. Then north up to just before you get to Little Deep Fork Creek, then on the east side of that road, is that right? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Now then, the Clinton Cemetery, that would be called the Clinton Cemetery. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. EB: As far as I know that' ; s what' ; s it' ; s-- BM: As far as you know. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, then the Bigpond Family Cemetery then, would be five miles east, a mile south-- AB: About a mile and a quarter. EB: About a mile and a quarter. BM: About a mile and a quarter south-- EB: Yeah. BM: And east about a quarter of a mile. AB: Yes. BM: Is that right? AB: That' ; s right, about a quarter of a mile. BM: Now we got that marked as Bigpond Family Cemetery." ; (pause) Alright, is there any of the--we were talking earlier about these, these babies that' ; s buried out here. Do you want to put them on here? Or do we want to let them go? I' ; m going to leave that strictly up to you. EB: It' ; s not a cemetery but I don' ; t know if they could-- BM: It' ; s a family burial plot, isn' ; t it? AB: Yeah. EB: Yeah. BM: It would be a family burial plot. EB: Mmm. BM: So we' ; re gonna mark this with a marker-- EB: That little baby here was, it died at birth. BM: Okay. What we' ; ll do with this one, then, we' ; ll mark this one over here E-L-W-O-O-D Family Plot. [marks map] That would be this one right out here. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, we' ; ll call that one eighty-five and we' ; ll mark that one right there eighty-five. [marks map] Well that' ; s--we' ; ll call that the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot. Okay, anything else that you can think of? EB: No, I believe I don' ; t. AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that' ; s--that' ; s been sold, too. BM: Now, it don' ; t make any difference about it being sold if there' ; s two babies there. It' ; s a family plot and as I say, what is got me stirred up on this thing and got me t' ; d off--I' ; ve run into one back over east of Kellyville over here, right there was a--it was a large graveyard and it was called the Bucktrot. Little Bucktrot. Over here east of Kellyville that the old boy' ; d just taken a bulldozer-- EB: Huh. BM: --bulldozered all down, just pile the stones and everything up, went in and planted a garden on top of it. That burnt me up. AB: That' ; s not in there where-- BM: Now the Indian Nations Council, they' ; ve got a report of this as well as two attorneys here in Bristow and they say that they can be something done about that. EB: Yeah. (rooster crowing) BM: That a burial ground, regardless of where it is or what it is, is a sacred. If it' ; s one or if it' ; s 100, it' ; s still sacred ground. (rooster crowing) EB: That must' ; ve been Cunja (ph) Bucktrot' ; s place north, kind of north of-- BM: Well it--go east out of Kellyville-- EB: East. BM: East out--straight east get out of Kellyville out there, back out there on the hill. About a mile, mile and a half, mile east of Kellyville out there and then back south down there. I heard this from fellow by the name of Felix. (rooster crowing) EB: Kenny (ph) Felix. BM: I believe his name was Osc-Amos. Amos. EB: Amos. BM: Amos Felix. AB: Yeah, we know him. BM: Amos was telling me about this and I ran it down, and shore enough that' ; s what' ; s happening. (rooster crowing) AB: This is not the cemetery that--what was their, Winnie Cahwey (ph) and--Winnie Cahwey (ph) and Pat Barnett, you know, they were always feuding over a cemetery up there that her grandfather Osa (ph) had plowed it up or something like that. EB: This was out in a few minutes ago. AB: Plowed it up and-- EB: Was trying to find the cemetery. BM: You know anything? UM: Not around this part [inaudible]. BM: Well alright, I' ; ll probably--when we get this done, they' ; re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There' ; s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. UM: Well there' ; s a bunch of them that-- BM: And it doesn' ; t make any difference whether it' ; s a white cemetery, colored cemetery, Indian cemetery, family burial plot, or what. UM: Mmm-hmm. AB: Do you work for the Creek Nation? Or just working for-- BM: This is just for myself. AB: Oh, I see. BM: This is for myself. So we' ; re the Genealogy Society of Bristow. AB: Yeah. Well I thought that' ; s what I read it in the paper and then-- BM: Genealogist Society in Bristow, they appointed me and the wife to run this all down and when we get this all run down it' ; ll be put on a computer form. With the names of the cemetery and roughly how it' ; s laid out, if it' ; s taken care of, if it' ; s got a fence around it, roughly how many graves is in it, the whole works. UM: Gonna take a while isn' ; t it? (chuckles) BM: Well, you' ; d be surprised, I' ; ve already come up with eighty-five. UM: Yeah. BM: Here in Creek County. And I' ; ve been just damned near to all of them. UM: Yeah. BM: All but just this--this one back off over here that I found out about this morning, where his [Elwood' ; s] dad was buried. I didn' ; t know anything about that one. UM: Yeah. BM: And I didn' ; t know anything about the family Bigpond--Bigpond Family Cemetery. I didn' ; t know anything about that. UM: Yeah. BM: I heard about it yesterday evening but I didn' ; t--I didn' ; t know anything about it. UM: Hmm. BM: Gene Connolly' ; s (ph) wife was telling me about this here [indecipherable]. And, well, there' ; s not but one thing for me to do. UM: [inaudible] BM: (chuckles) No, I just go run down the man that--go down and run down the man with the plan. EB: You know, this fellow, this Bigpond--there is a Bigpond Cemetery in Depew. BM: Yeah, that' ; s off over here. [refers to map] EB: Yeah. BM: That' ; s way off over here. And there' ; s also a Cawhey (ph) over there. EB: Yeah. AB: Yeah. BM: There' ; s Cawhey (ph) Cemetery over there as well as a Bigpond Cemetery over there. EB: I believe they' ; re together in there. BM: Well, they' ; re right there close together, just maybe [indecipherable] apart. They' ; re all right there together. AB: Now, Jack Tiger--what was, don' ; t they have a-- EB: Jack Tiger' ; s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It' ; s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? EB: Well, let' ; s see. BM: I don' ; t want you to go, getting' ; you all upset now, why don' ; t you just relax. (all chuckling) I want you to relax. AB: Now, I know, you could--now there' ; s a girl, woman, lives over there. She' ; s married to Jake Barnett. Now they live in Depew. BM: No, I heard about them Barnetts live out here north of town. AB: Well, that' ; s some of the same family. BM: Yes. AB: But they live in Depew. Now that' ; s--Jack Tiger was her dad, wasn' ; t it? Jake' ; s wife. EB: Patti? AB: Yeah. EB: Patti and-- AB: What' ; s Jake' ; s wife' ; s name? EB: Patti and Jack Tiger. AB: Is it Lodie Tiger? BM: Otey? AB: Lodie. Lodie Tiger. BM: Lodie. AB: But it' ; s Lodie Barnett now. She' ; s married to Jake Barnett. And they live south of Depew, not maybe about a mile south of Depew. EB: That makes the cemetery on their place. AB: Yeah, well, now, see, this is Barnett Cemetery I was telling you-- UM: [aside] I' ; ll be back here after while. EB: [aside] Okay. AB: --Barnett Cemetery I was telling you about last night. [refers to map] BM: Yeah. AB: See, this is Barnett Family Cemetery. Now, Patsy Ruth Barnett, she was married to William Barnett. Now, this Cawhey (ph) and Pat (ph) were always kind of at odds with one another. And when--Pat told me, said the feud has lasted for a number of years on account of her grandfather had plowed up Mrs. Cawhey' ; s (ph) grandfather, or something like that there. But I was wondering when you' ; s telling about this over there at Kellyville that someone went in and dozed. And I just wondered if that' ; s the same place or not. BM: No, this one' ; s over there south of Kellyville. This one over here, then, would be over here about a mile south, you said, about a mile south of Depew? AB: Well, you can locate-- BM: This one here. [refers to map] AB: You can locate-- BM: This one here. AB: Well, I' ; ve been back in there now. I' ; m not too for sure. But you could contact-- EB: Lodie. She' ; ll tell you about that, sure. BM: Lodie? AB: Lodie. Jack Tiger, where Jack Tiger' ; s buried in that cemetery. Now I don' ; t know the name of it. But Lodie Tiger--Lodie Tiger Barnett, could--she lives there and she could probably tell you more about that. EB: Now, they tell me that a rancher bought that place and he--I don' ; t know whether he plowed anything or not but he' ; s pasturing it, pasturing it over there. BM: Why that' ; s--of course, pasturing it, that' ; s not gonna hurt it or anything. Go in there and go to throwing them damn claw down that deep, why, a lot of them graves that--Lord, they' ; s supposed to be four to six feet deep but now, you know as well as I do that, that there' ; s some places here in this part of the country there' ; s no way that you' ; re gonna dig four to six feet deep. AB: Yeah. BM: So there' ; s gonna be a lot of ' ; em it wouldn' ; t be over two feet deep. The equipment they' ; ve got now a' ; days, well it' ; s nothing for ' ; em to plow six--plow two feet deep. Or scratch two feet deep. AB: Now I' ; ve got one here I' ; d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now-- [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! AB: Robert Biggs, now he was buried in Oakcrest Memorial Park, is that the same as the Bristow cemetery? BM: That would be the Bristow cemetery. AB: Well, you see why I was wondering about it [rooster caws] see I got one on Barney (ph) Harjo, now he' ; s related to the Harjos live north of town so if it' ; s Bristow City Cemetery [rooster caws] so I-- BM: Well, see, that' ; d be that Oakcrest, that would be the same thing. (pause) Now I think that' ; s right but now I wouldn' ; t say definitely sure. AB: (chuckles) BM: Now the reason I' ; m saying that is this: Now out here west of Bristow, stop and think a minute now, and you too, Anderson. Out here west of Bristow, now you know, they had the old Poor Farm cemetery, or pauper' ; s cemetery, whichever one you want to call it, had them little crosses, sitting right there beside the road. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, now right just up on the hill there, on the south side of sixty-six, now there is a graveyard there. But I have not been able to get any name on it. AB: I think I know where you' ; re talking about but I don' ; t know too much about that. BM: I don' ; t either! I can' ; t run anybody down that' ; s got a name on it. AB: You know out west of Bristow-- BM: Out there where that Deep Rock camp is out there west of Bristow? AB: Yeah. EB: What they used to call the Poor Farm? BM: Yeah, the Poor Farm. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, the Poor Farm graveyard is right down there beside the highway. They' ; ve got some little crosses in there on it. AB: Just right on that-- BM: Right on the north side of the highway. AB: North side. And all them little crosses there. BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I' ; ve been by there but I wouldn' ; t know. BM: But I would say that this here [refers to map], I would say that' ; s what this is right here. But I will check this out and make sure. AB: You think it' ; s the Bristow cemetery? BM: Oakcrest Memorial. AB: Now I got loooots of this stuff so I don' ; t have to be guessing, I can tell you for sure (chuckles) BM: I' ; ll check this out and see where that Oakcrest is. And if it, if it is the old Bristow Cemetery, then it' ; s out there by the armory. AB: Mmm-hmm, yeah. I--since I was leafing some, going through some of these, I just kind of, well I know we got the Magnolia Cemetery and stuff like that. BM: Oh, and 44, we' ; ve got the 44 out there, we got the Magnolia. AB: Yeah. BM: Really and truly that could be Harjo out there instead of Magnolia. But Roy Dunaway, when he put that thing in, he just got a hundred-year lease on it, he couldn' ; t buy the land, he got a hundred-year lease on it and placed that cemetery there and that man has got rich on those graves. AB: Yeah. BM: Just on leased land. Well when that hundred year' ; s up, now, here' ; s the sixty-four-dollar question: Will the Harjo family renew the hundred-year lease? Will the Harjo family? AB: But they never did buy that? They just got a hundred-year lease? BM: They just got a hundred-year lease on it! AB: Huh. That' ; s interesting, ain' ; t it? EB: What cemetery' ; s that? BM: That' ; s that Magnolia. That' ; s that one north of town. AB: They, they never did buy that. They just leased it for a hundred years, which I never, I didn' ; t know. BM: Now Roy Dunaway told me this himself before he died. And Roy and I was pretty close there at one time. And he told me when he first went to laying that thing out, goddamn Roy, you' ; re, you' ; re really sticking your neck out, ain' ; t you buddy? And, oh, he said, I got a hundred-year lease on it for two dollars a year and I don' ; t think I' ; m sticking my neck out very far, I said, No, I don' ; t believe you are, either. AB: But it' ; s gonna complicate things in the future. BM: In the future it' ; s gonna complicate things. AB: If you don' ; t buy it--I mean if you try to buy it, say probably [indecipherable] (chuckles) and what' ; s gonna happen to it (chuckles) BM: Well, Ron Schumaker, whenever they, you go out there and buy a plot, they give you a deed to that plot. AB: Yeah. BM: Well now that deed is worthless as the paper it was written on, by it being leased land. There is no way that he can give a clear deed to that plot of ground. But he can write one up. Everybody doesn' ; t know this. AB: Now, this is south of town here, now. I thought that was the old Tiger cemetery, [inaudible] ' ; cause there' ; s a lots of people buried there. Isn' ; t Alma (ph) Tiger and Tom (ph) Tiger and all of them buried in there? BM: Now, Flo (ph) Weaver told me that was called the Harjo. AB: Well, they must' ; ve--see, that was there before the Harjos existed. BM: That isn' ; t very possible, is it? (chuckles) AB: But I guess the Harjos, since they do bury there, I guess they-- EB: Clearly it' ; s kind of family-- AB: Yeah, it' ; s kind of a family. BM: It' ; s family. It' ; s sort of a family. AB: --could be called family. BM: It' ; s sort of a family get-together. AB: ' ; Cause you see, my mother--my mother' ; s mother, she' ; s buried there, too. BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we' ; ve got--I don' ; t know whether you knew it--know it or not, now that would be out there at this new--that' ; d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they' ; ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn' ; t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they' ; ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen-- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? AB: Yeah. BM: Just before you start, just before you drop over that hump to go down to Sand Creek, that' ; s straight south back up there, was the original old Bristow Cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: And I' ; ve called it the Foster Cemetery but I didn' ; t know at the time that it was the old Bristow Cemetery, because the reason I did that was Arthur Foster' ; s grandfather is buried there and he' ; s the one who' ; s got the big stone. He' ; s got a big stone. AB: I didn' ; t even know there was cemetery there. BM: It' ; s--would be located right here [refers to map]. AB: That would be kind of north-- BM: Right here. Right here. Right there is where it' ; s located. AB: Well it would be kind of located--well they got some apartment buildings there-- BM: Well, now, see, that' ; s north of them apartment buildings. AB: North of them apartment buildings? BM: It' ; s north of them apartment buildings. Now they tell me, I' ; ve been in there, the wife' ; s got two uncles that' ; s buried there in that thing. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: That' ; s what got us to really checking into it. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And then as times comes on, this was the original, the old Bristow Cemetery, before they moved out, out on the hill out there. EB: Is that what they called the sixty? BM: May be, I don' ; t know. EB: Right north of--two miles east of Bristow and then back north. BM: No, this is just right, this is just--now is there one out there by sixty? EB: Well, I don' ; t--I' ; ve heard of people being buried out there. BM: Out there by model sixty then. EB: Yeah. You go two miles east and then north. BM: Two miles east and go north up there. EB: Right in there. BM: I didn' ; t know anything about that one. [refers to map] Okay, we go two miles east, be here, go north two miles and now then that road, according to this map, it don' ; t show that that road goes all the way to there. But it does, it goes to and comes back out at the bottom of the hill over there, that' ; s the Joe (ph) Allen (ph) place. It just winds around comes on around comes back to the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. At the bottom of the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. AB: What did, did, oh--Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she' ; s buried way south of the old, the original. The one--the original cemetery, it' ; s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, go east from Pinehill schoolhouse, you cross the creek, you go on down--the road is going straight there and the road comes right around the side of the creek. Just before you make that curve it' ; s settin' ; right back south--southeast over there on the east side of that creek. AB: I was pretty young, you know in those days, I don' ; t remember-- BM: The the old Sally Pinehill, she didn' ; t want--they didn' ; t bury her down there in the old original, the old original cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you' ; ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there' ; s another question that been a' ; rubbin' ; me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there--it' ; s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there' ; s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind--according to this party that called me--there' ; s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There' ; s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe' ; s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: North of there, then a mile and a half west is where the old Watashe Cemetery is. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And the old Watashi stompground and so on and so forth in there. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Then. I don' ; t know whether I' ; ve got this one right or not: You come back over to that road going on up there, up about a half a mile north of that road, now. There is one sitting back west of the road over there (chickens squawking). They say there' ; s probably twenty-five or thirty graves in it. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: But I didn' ; t have a chance to go in and look this one over. It was wet and I didn' ; t have a chance to go and look it over. But they tell me now that they call that one George. EB: George. BM: That' ; s what I was told yesterday evening on this one. They call that one George. Do you know anything about that? EB: No, but I know a few Georges. But I don' ; t know nothing about a cemetery. BM: Okay, let me backtrack here to sixty-five (pages flipping). I' ; ve got two here--see we' ; re sixty-five out here. (chickens squawking) Okay, sixty-six, same way. Alright, now then. Sixty--I' ; ve got sixty-six (dog barking). Do you know anything about go down here to the, the road that goes across there at the airport? And go west, just before you get to the airport over there, on the north side of the road there. Do you know of anything right in there? AB: That would be going on past the Kelly farm in there? BM: Yeah, see, it' ; d be--it' ; s right on the Kelly farm in there and then this plot laid right in there between the airport and the Kelly farm. Now I do know there' ; s a dwelling, an Indian dwelling down there, but to tell you--I didn' ; t even know-- EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery' ; d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got--have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile-- BM: Three miles? AB: Let' ; s see, let' ; s see--be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. AB: And you go about a mile and three quarters-- BM: West. AB: West. BM: Okay. AB: And that--it' ; s got a big sign there, it did have a big sign, the Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s this damn thing I' ; m trying to find, that would be this, this sixty-six. Harry. EB: Eddie Harry. AB: Oh, and then there' ; s Watson--one of those Watson girls was married, do you remember the one they called Salina (ph) died and [indecipherable] BM: Okay, now, that would be-- EB: Did they bury her there? AB: Yeah. BM: That would be the Eddie Harry. That would be the cemetery that I' ; m talking about. AB: Well, I think they just got Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s what we' ; ll put down here. We' ; ll put Harry. AB: Yeah. BM: Harry Cemetery down there. AB: Now they--there' ; s an old house sits kind of off in the woods by it, and now--right out there right alongside the road they did have a big sign that said Harry Cemetery. Big oh--big sign about like that yay. That just a little before, it' ; s down-- BM: You come off that hill there and you drive, just before you get-- AB: Down at the bottom of that school there. What was school there? BM: That was down, right on--going into [indecipherable] it was sitting up on top of the hill there. AB: Yeah well it was down at the--you know where it' ; s at, then, yeah. BM: I' ; ve got that--I had it marked but I didn' ; t have no name for it. Okay, sixty-five. Let me see where--let me run sixty-five down. I know there' ; s another one in there. But I gotta find it. EB: It looks right here, sixty-two. BM: Yeah. (pause) Let me find sixty-five. [refers to map] I' ; ve had to come back in after--had to come back in and as they went to coming in I' ; ve had to come back in and remark everything. [murmuring] Sixty-five. (rooster crows) Scattered-the numbers are scattered everywhere. [murmuring] Sixty-eight. Sixty-four. Can' ; t find it over here anywhere. Fifty-nine. (chicken squawking) No, I don' ; t see it right now. Oh, yeah! Right here! That' ; s the one over here just this side of Depew, now. You come around the curve coming out of Depew, come around that curve you straighten out in there right in there right south of that--well it' ; d be southwest of that salvage yard out there. (rooster crows) On the south side of the road. There used to be a sign up there. But the sign is gone. It' ; s out there, see you come in there where that road goes south to Gypsy-- AB: Mm-hmm. EB: That must be right in there by where old man Kilgore (ph) used to live. BM: Yeah? EB: South of there-- BM: It' ; s out there south of the Kilgore (ph) place out there. Well, see, [indecipherable]--before the highway was finished in there, his son was killed out on that curve just east of the house, on that damned crooked-edge crooked curve in there. They tried to take that curve ' ; round-- [brief interference in tape] BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don' ; t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. EB: No, way back there Jim Bigpond got killed on the railroad right there--well, he didn' ; t die then, but he got his arm and leg cut off and he died later on, but I don' ; t think he was buried there. BM: But there used to be a big sign up there that--that sign is gone now. EB: Yeah. BM: But it' ; s out there between Bristow and Depew. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, let' ; s see. I' ; ve got another one in here I think. Seventy-one. Where' ; s seventy-one at? [referencing map] [mumbling to self] Sixty-five, seventy-one. Yeah, that' ; s this one up here, we didn' ; t know on the--still no name for that one, still no name for that one. Sixty-one was called George. Now this, this eighteen, we still haven' ; t got a name for it yet. That' ; s this one out here just the other side of [indecipherable]. AB: Seem like, wasn' ; t there a sign up for that? BM: There used to be a sign up there. AB: Now, tell me something: where--I think there' ; s a cemetery by the name of Haydenville or something like that, but it seems to me--I always see that come up [inaudible] BM: Haydenville' ; s way down south-- AB: Yeah, I know where Haydenville is. But I--seems like there' ; s something right down here. Haydenville--might not' ; ve been. Hayden? Or [indecipherable] or something like that-- BM: I don' ; t know what that name is right there, but-- AB: Yeah. Now, now they might have a cemetery in there, you know where the old Tuskegee School is? BM: Yeah, the old Tuskegee School, here it is right here. [refers to map] AB: You go out about a mile north-- BM: About a mile-- AB: Wait, no, about a half a mile north and then-- BM: Well then that' ; s-- AB: Then about a quarter of a mile back east. Now there' ; s a cemetery in there, too. BM: Okay. McKnight. AB: Knight. BM: Knight. AB: K-N-I-G-H-T. Now, I' ; m not too fam--I' ; ve been there, but I' ; m not too familiar. BM: Okay, yeah, I know the people that' ; s up there. AB: Now where' ; s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I' ; ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. BM: You said over here, didn' ; t you? Baker, Baker, Battle, Battle, Bucktrot, Tiger, Phillip, Harlinsville, Brown--well I had it here. EB: [inaudible] AB: The reason I was asking you, I got cemetery (rooster crows) Tuskegee there, that school in there--I was thinking was thinking that the Bear cemetery and it was the same place, but they said it' ; s the same-- BM: No, it' ; s not. That is the--where in the world' ; s that at, I know it--I know Bear is on there. But I don' ; t see it. EB: I seen it a while ago somewhere. BM: Wattie (ph) Sewell (ph), Lodie Tiger, Bucktrot, Gilcrease, Battle, Bucktrot, Baker, Drumright, Cawhey (ph), Washburn (ph), Brown, Bucktrot, Clinton--well here it is! Number three! The Bear! Be right here. [refers to map] AB: Now let' ; s see, this is-- BM: That' ; s west, come right straight north of Tuskegee-- AB: Yeah. BM: That would be out there, what is now known as the Juedeman place. Down there on the Juedeman place. AB: Yeah. BM: See, Roley Bear lived just before you get--Roley Bear' ; s place was just before you get up to the Juedeman place. AB: My sister' ; s buried there. BM: Yeah? AB: Well I-- BM: Then on north of that, then, is the Juedeman place, it' ; s back off out--it' ; s back off out to the right back off out there. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence--Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we' ; ve got, we' ; ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We' ; ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we' ; ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That' ; d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three--(pause) and I don' ; t--we' ; ve got Brown there but that' ; s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey' ; s (ph) in there, there' ; s another one here. AB: [inaudible] BM: The old man Brown is down seventy-six. AB: That would be-- BM: That would be down file miles south-- AB: Out east, east of Gypsy? BM: Yeah. I gotta find it. Seventy-nine, I marked everything last night. Seventy-five, seventy-four and seventy-five. Alright, seventy-four is Teddy Brown. AB: Ted Brown. BM: Ted Brown. Seventy-five is Washburn (ph). AB: Washburn (ph). That would be-- BM: [indecipherable] five miles, go straight east here [refers to map]-- AB: Yep. Two mile--three miles-- BM: One mile, then go straight south. AB: Yeah, I know where it' ; s at. BM: Okay, Ted Brown is in there too. AB: Is that where Teddy Brown lies? BM: Yeah, yeah. Teddy Brown' ; s in there too. AB: Hmm. (chuckles) BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it' ; s back over here right west of Iron Post. That' ; s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s what we got it marked Madison Bucktrot. Okay. Seventy-eight--(pause). It' ; s right in here because it was marked last night. Yesterday evening. Seventy-nine, we just marked that seventy-nine, the Clinton, in here. Seventy-eight. Well anyway, seventy-eight--we got the Lucy Deer (ph). The Lucy Deer (ph). AB: Is that the same one they call Woosy Deer (ph)? BM: Woosy (ph), that' ; s it. EB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). AB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). Right it here it is, way up here. EB: Oh, it' ; s around Sapulpa then. BM: Seventy-eight. That' ; s up there by the turnpike gate out of Sapulpa. Seventy-nine is Lundsford (ph). That' ; s right in here. AB: Back in here. BM: No, that would be--that would be--I think we' ; re wrong on that. We' ; ve got the Lundsford (ph), no that' ; s seventy-nine at Clinton. Seventy-nine at Clinton. Eighty is Lundsford. Okay, that would be just right down the road down here. AB: Right down here. BM: Okay. Eighty-one is Lane. The Lane cemetery. Eighty-three is the Clinton. AB: Now is that-- BM: Eight-one, that' ; s the Lane. That' ; s a way the heck off over here. That' ; s way off over here in the southwest, southeast corner of, or that' ; d be the southwest corner, back off down there. AB: Is it like them to have two cemeteries? BM: I don' ; t know. AB: What--wasn' ; t Charlie' ; s mother--she was buried down here at-- EB: Probably Tuskegee. AB: They call that Tuskegee not [indecipherable] now. EB: And [indecipherable] down there around Edna. A big cemetery, now. BM: Now, eighty-three, now let' ; s see, where' ; s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we' ; ll come back in here, that' ; s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? AB: Yeah, Wally (ph) Knight. Now you' ; ve got the McNac (ph) cemetery? BM: McNac? AB: McNac. M-C-N-A-C. BM: M-C-N-A-C. AB: Yeah. BM: No, I haven' ; t. AB: See, they got a cemetery right there at where they lived. BM: Now, where' ; s that at? AB: Well, (sighs) well you go out to forty-eight out here-- BM: What, forty-eight, north on forty-eight? AB: Yeah, north on forty-eight but I can' ; t--it' ; s quite a-ways out there, eight or nine miles out there I guess, and then you turn to go back east. But it' ; s like-- BM: East or west? AB: West. BM: Okay, then that' ; d be out there what they call the old Mac (ph) Baker corner. AB: Uh-huh, I don' ; t know about that. BM: See, that' ; d be about eight mile north up there. Like you' ; re going on to the sub station. AB: Yeah. BM: And see, before you get to there you' ; ve got the Harlinsville Cemetery and there' ; s no other road-- AB: Yeah, that Harlinsville Cemetery, that' ; s the one I was trying to-- BM: Harlinsville. AB: Yeah! Harlinsville. That' ; s it. BM: That' ; s it right there. [refers to map] AB: Yeah, that' ; s the one I was--but anyway, just like I told you, that if you contact that Amos McNac, he can give you the exact directions. Now he lives out right, he lives out to where Bethel lives. He' ; s lived--where Bethel lives, he lives right across the road from Bethel there. BM: Oh, okay. AB: Or he' ; s listed in the telephone directory. He can probably give you the exact mileage out there and some information on it, but all I know is it' ; s a cemetery there. BM: Okay. AB: A family cemetery. BM: Alright. Anything else you might think of? (pause) AB: That' ; s the only ones I can think of. BM: Okay. We' ; ll stop this thing. end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml
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Anderson and Elwood Bigpond
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In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma.
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Family Histories
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1977
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Family Histories
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Georgia Smith
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Basil Baker
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5.4 December 13, 2020 OHP-2020-08 Basil Baker OHP-2020-08 0:00-82:09 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Basil Baker Georgia Smith MP3 1:|59(4)|95(10)|123(10)|146(2)|180(9)|193(2)|226(6)|260(9)|279(10)|316(3)|348(2)|377(2)|405(10)|414(5)|437(10)|457(3)|474(11)|486(4)|510(6)|527(1)|539(4)|568(2)|585(9)|601(8)|619(8)|639(4)|665(4)|683(16)|701(9)|720(7)|761(13)|778(2)|793(17)|814(2)|840(6)|862(1)|876(11)|890(15)|898(8)|910(12)|934(3)|948(9)|963(14)|978(5)|1000(16)|1010(7)|1032(12)|1044(3)|1059(2)|1081(4)|1105(10)|1118(12)|1150(1)|1188(3)|1212(2)|1226(5)|1244(4)|1265(4)|1281(12)|1288(12)|1307(3)|1322(14)|1332(1)|1358(1)|1377(2)|1396(7)|1410(11)|1417(12)|1432(5)|1466(2)|1487(12)|1513(7)|1521(8)|1528(15)|1539(10)|1553(3)|1573(9)|1608(14)|1621(8)|1635(4)|1664(5)|1678(7) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Basil Baker.mp3 Other audio 0 Intro and Family GS: Okay, I’ve got that set now we’re gonna set it right there Basil BB: Okay GS: And I’m gonna talk first BB: Okay, I hope you do a lot of the talking GS: No, you’ll do most of it. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the history societies ongoing oral history project. Today’s date is December the 13th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Basil Baker at his home in Bristow who is going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. Okay Basil, let’s begin. What is your full name? BB: Basil Baker Basil Baker ; Bessie Baker ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Bunny Baker ; Cordie Overstreet ; Dillard Baker ; Dillard Roy ; Georgia Smith ; Gonda Inez Meek ; John H. Baker ; Merle Baker ; Mill Chapel ; Mills chapel ; Oval Baker ; Reeth Baker ; Virgil Baker ; Wayne Baker https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/217928254/cordie-baker Cordie Baker https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/217917768/john-henry-baker John H. Baker 651 Work (Hospital and Military) GS: Gonda Inez Meek (ph), okay. And you both got married in September, on September 13th, 1973? BB: Yeah GS: Good, and where did you get married? BB: Las Vegas GS: Were you living there at the time? BB: No, we took a vacation, we were working at a hospital GS: Oh BB: And we took a vacation and went out there and got married 7th Cavalry ; Albuquerque, N.M. ; Gonda Inez Meek ; Santa Fe, New Mexico 1297 Dust Bowl GS: That’s amazing, I’m gonna back you up just a little bit and ask you about the Dust Bowl. What are your memories of Oklahoma in the Dust Bowl? BB: [Indecipherable] GS: (Laughing) BB: I don’t even [Indecipherable] think of it. To begin with, you couldn’t see anything GS: Even here in Bristow? BB: Yes, way out there where we lived on the farm just south of Bristow, it looked like a light bulb in the sky GS: Wow Dust Bowl ; Oklahoma Dust Bowl ; Peanut Capital 1711 Military Service GS: Now you told me that you entered WWII in 1940? BB: Mhm GS: Was that before Pearl Harbor? BB: Yeah GS: What made you enter then? BB: Well, I didn’t wanna be a farmer, dad wanted me to be a—well he wanted me, he’s getting old and he wanted me to take over my end of the farm, I didn’t want that. I didn’t wanna starve, if I did I wanted to starve doing what I wanted to do Fort Bliss, Texas ; Fort Eustis, Virginia ; Fort Riley ; Fort Riley, Kansas ; Fort Sheridan, Wyoming ; Frankford, Germany ; New Mexico National Guard ; Pearl Harbor ; Santa Fe, New Mexico ; Topeka, Kansas ; WWII 2793 School BB: I taught school GS: Oh you did? BB: Yeah GS: Tell me about that BB: When I was, after I graduated, time I graduated in June, we used to get out of school in June, and I was 12 years old and then I was 13 the following November. So I went to—I enlisted, I enrolled in Bristow High school, the bus went by the house, I was proud of my new striped overalls and new shirt, but there was a group of guys at that farmer had no place in Bristow high school, and they drove me out, I quit— Bristow High School ; VanOrsdol 3007 Economic Depression BB: The depression GS: Yes BB: Wasn’t fun either GS: No it wasn’t BB: I saw people, they never did complain, the guy with a wagon, the team would pull up with their commodities they called them GS: Yes Economic Depression ; Roosevelt Administration 3219 Church GS: Did you go to church as a child? BB: Pardon? GS: Did you go to church as a child? BB: Oh yes, the church I was with was right across the road from me GS: What church was that? BB: It was the Advent Christian GS: Okay, okay, and— BB: It’s like the one going south of Chestnut Advent Christian 3349 Doctors and Cars GS: What about doctors? Did you go to the doctors much when you were a child? Or your family? BB: No, the doctor come to us. GS: Okay, okay. BB: Yeah the doctor by the name of Doctor King and he drove a touring car I think it was a dodge and he had a crate on the bumper of the car and he would take chickens, he would take hogs, he would take anything, he owned a farm. And he’d take anything that he could take back to that farm GS: For payment? BB: Yeah GS: Yup Chevrolet Coop ; Doctor King ; Model T-Ford 3468 Market and Ways of Payment GS: Did you come into town much? Did you bring your goods for—to market? BB: Saturday GS: Okay, what was that like? BB: Butter and egg day. Well that’s the only time you had any money. GS: Okay BB: Momma had customers that she sold butter to and eggs. And for all the eggs that was left, we took them to Safeway and they’d be able to take the eggs and pay you in what you wanted to buy GS: Okay American National Bank ; Mr. Floods ; Mr. Stone ; Safeway ; Spirit Bank 3922 Works Protection Act (WPA) GS: I won’t tire you out too much, but—Do you remember anything about the Works, Works Protection Act during the 40’s and— BB: The WPA? GS: Or the 30’s I guess it was, yeah the WPA, do you have any memories of that? BB: Yeah, yeah. There was, there’s a funny thing that was attached to that too. They had lots of pick and shovel prize, I mean they did everything with pick and shovel GS: Okay BB: And then so many guys in the – had to register that lived in the community, and each one of them would get fifteen days’ work, then— GS: Okay Eleanor Roosevelt ; Works Protection Act ; WPA 4170 How the World Has Changed GS: Okay, we’re gonna wind down here. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your life time? BB: The most— GS: The most important inventions that have been—happened in your lifetime BB: Oh my goodness GS: There have been so many, I know it’s hard to pick one. BB: I think the one that has probably involved more people, served more people, and was a convention—was a convenience for them, was the airplane. GS: The airplane Jessica Baker 4816 TV Appearance GS: And I appreciate it ever so much. BB: Well that’s just like, I appreciate it being on TV GS: Yes BB: I never thought something like that would happen. And Jessica was the cause of it. GS: Oh was she? BB: Yeah she has a friend, this lady from— GS: Amy Kaughman (ph)? BB: Yeah, Amy. GS: Uh-huh Amy Kaughman In this 2020 interview, Basil Baker shares his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his family, military service, and life during the dust bowl. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Basil Baker Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-08 0:00 - 82:09 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay, I' ; ve got that set now we' ; re gonna set it right there Basil BB: Okay GS: And I' ; m gonna talk first BB: Okay, I hope you do a lot of the talking GS: No, you' ; ll do most of it. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the history societies ongoing oral history project. Today' ; s date is December the 13th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Basil Baker at his home in Bristow who is going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. Okay Basil, let' ; s begin. What is your full name? BB: Basil Baker GS: You have a middle name? BB: No GS: No middle name, and where were you born? BB: I was born five miles south and one mile east on a farm GS: In your home, in the home? BB: Yup, born in the home. GS: What was the date of your birth? BB: 11 November, 1920 GS: Very good, you just celebrated your 100th birthday, didn' ; t you? BB: Two days ago GS: Do you know that makes you the oldest person I' ; ve interviewed so far? I feel honored. BB: There you go GS: And channel six came and did a special on you Wednesday on your birthday, didn' ; t they? BB: Yes, yes GS: Yes, I was impressed that you were on the golf course hitting golf balls. What was your mother' ; s name, her full name? BB: Cordie OverstreetGS: And your father' ; s name? BB: John H. Baker GS: Okay, do you know when they were married approximately? BB: Moses was the preacher GS: Okay BB: I' ; ll have to be a little funny about this because my momma--I' ; m gonna have to back up from the time they died GS: You just do that BB: Momma died in 66' ; , dad died in 64' ; and they had celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary GS: Okay BB: They both died at 88 years of age. GS: So your mom was 66 when she died? BB: No she was 88 GS: Oh, no--oh she died in 66 you said? BB: Yeah, yeah GS: And they had just celebrated what anniversary? BB: Before that, they' ; re--celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary, so 65. GS: So they were married in 1901 maybe? BB: Probably GS: Okay, 1901 sounds good. BB: My dad was 4 in 1878 GS: Okay, at the end of the civil war BB: Yeah, and momma was born in 1880 GS: Okay BB: So that could probably, I know they married momma was 16, and--I' ; m about to get ahead of things here. GS: No you' ; re fine, if you' ; re telling me something, we' ; ll just go with it Basil. BB: She had 3 brothers and 2 sisters that lost their mother GS: Aw BB: And they came and lived with her and my dad, so every one of them but one was older than she was. And so she raised two families GS: Wow BB: She--her own and them. GS: Aw BB: And they always called her mom GS: Aw BB: I' ; ve been to visit at Arkansas and talked to all of them and they said she was just like a mother to them so they just called her mom GS: Now was your mother living in Arkansas at that time, and dad or were they here in Bristow? BB: That' ; s where--that' ; s where she was born GS: Okay BB: And both my dad and mom GS: Okay BB: And they came to Oklahoma in 1905 GS: What brought them here? BB: Just needed to move out of Arkansas and new country, Oklahoma [Indecipherable] just about ready to become a state, and I don' ; t--they didn' ; t get any land, they didn' ; t--that wasn' ; t what they came for. But the boys was old enough that they wanted to come, so they came and settled around the mills chapel area, old mill chapel (ph) area. GS: Okay BB: In fact, it was just half a mile north of mill chapel GS: Now was that south of Bristow? BB: No, well yes. That' ; s three miles south and two miles east GS: Okay, okay I know about--there' ; s a housing addition down there now I think BB: Oh sure now GS: I think BB: Well, they stayed one year, things didn' ; t work out then they went back to Arkansas and came back in 1908 GS: Back to Oklahoma? BB: Yeah GS: Okay BB: But they didn' ; t go to the same place, I don' ; t know where they went to, to tell you the truth. That never was revealed to me as far as I know GS: Sure, do you have any brothers or sisters? BB: Yes, yes. We was a family of 9 GS: Oh my word, can you tell me their names? BB: Seven brothers--yeah, seven brothers and two sisters. GS: My goodness BB: Well I had six brothers, there were seven boys and two girls. GS: Well I bet your dad appreciated all that help on the farm BB: Well, the thing of it was, well when they were other than the farm that he bought and he settled that, there was only three of us that grew up there GS: Oh okay BB: And the rest of them was gone then working in oil fields and what have you GS: What were their names? BB: Okay starting at the oldest GS: Oh good BB: Dillard GS: Dillard Baker? BB: Dillard Roy (ph) GS: Okay BB: The next one was Wayne (ph), don' ; t ask me the middle names of these GS: That' ; s fine, Wayne Baker? BB: Wayne. The next one was Bessie (ph) GS: Okay BB: Then Oval (ph), then Reeth (ph), and then Virgil (ph) GS: Okay BB: And then between me and there was actually ten of us, but I had a brother that was two years and five months old and he died, they never did find out what was wrong with him. The doctors didn' ; t know then, but anyway I was come along and I was the last one GS: Now I thought you were brothers to Merle Baker BB: Merle was a nephew GS: Okay, okay. Because I got your phone number from Bunny BB: Yeah, yeah. GS: Okay. What did your mother do in the house? BB: Work herself to death GS: I imagine BB: She worked in the field before I was born, she used to tell me, not before I was born, but I mean before I was old enough to do anything outside of the house, she would tell me about how some of the older ones when they were babies, she' ; d take a number three washtub to the field, find a shade, put a big quilt in the washtub and put the baby in the washtub. GS: Oh my goodness BB: And then if they were chopping cotton or corn or chicken or what have you, every so often she' ; d go to the tub and let the baby nurse GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh BB: And she said he never did have any problems with it GS: Well very good BB: It just, it was just a hardship that' ; s all GS: Yeah BB: That' ; s all we knew GS: Yeah that' ; s true BB: We did own our own farm GS: Oh that' ; s good BB: And had a cellar full of fruit, vegetables, meat-- GS: That your mother canned BB: Yeah, and we never lacked for food, so we was alright that way GS: Uh-huh BB: No money GS: Yeah, yeah I don' ; t think many people had money back then BB: No, I remember my dad telling my mother Cordi, we came out with a hundred and ten dollars, they set a hundred and twenty in the paper, but that was around one hundred and ten dollars this year GS: Oh my goodness, can you imagine? BB: No GS: Now Basil, every now and then I' ; m gonna get up and just make sure this is still going just to satisfy me, so it' ; s fine so don' ; t get nervous when I stand up, I' ; m just checking that that' ; s going BB: That don' ; t bother me GS: Okay, what is your wifes name? BB: Gonda (ph) GS: And her maiden name? Meek (ph)? BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Was it Meek? BB: Yes, her last name is Meek, I was trying to think of her middle name GS: Oh BB: Inez (ph) GS: Gonda Inez Meek (ph), okay. And you both got married in September, on September 13th, 1973? BB: Yeah GS: Good, and where did you get married? BB: Las Vegas GS: Were you living there at the time? BB: No, we took a vacation, we were working at a hospital GS: Oh BB: And we took a vacation and went out there and got married GS: Where were you working? BB: In Santa Fe GS: Santa Fe BB: New Mexico GS: Was this after WWII?BB: Oh yes, yes. This was just before I re--well, I went to work there the third, I went to Sears, I retired during the week, I don' ; t remember the day but on the following Wednesday, so it must' ; ve been a Monday or a Tuesday I went to Sears to see if I could get a job there and they hired me as a manager of their appliance department GS: Oh BB: So I thought I' ; s pretty lucky GS: Yes BB: I went out the door and I ran across a man that I had met when my wife and his wife was in the hospital, military hospital in Albuquerque GS: Oh my goodness BB: And so he said " ; hey, when you gonna retire?" ; I said I just did, just last week. He said " ; What are you gonna do?" ; , I said " ; Well I just got a job in Sears" ; , he said " ; Go back in there and tell them you can' ; t take it" ; . I said " ; Man I need it" ; , he said " ; I got a job for you" ; well he knew what experience I had in the military GS: Yes BB: So he said " ; I want you as my personnel director at the hospital" ; GS: Wow BB: It was a 200 bed hospital bed with 906 employees GS: Wow BB: So I went up and talked to the sister who was the administrator of the hospital, it was a Catholic hospital, and she was unsatisfied with my education because I had nothing to show other than this letter and I couldn' ; t have found it in a week. I knew where it was, but it was packed with other things that was somewhere GS: Right BB: And I told her that if she would give me 30 days that at the end of it, if she was happy with my work she' ; d put me on the payroll ; if she wasn' ; t, she didn' ; t owe me a thing, I would go my way, friends and she--it was her decision. GS: So did you stay more than a month? BB: 13 years GS: (Laughing) I figured. BB: Two weeks later she saw me in the hallway and she told me I was on the payroll GS: Very good BB: But they' ; d--the personnel records were scattered all over the hospital GS: Oh myBB: Each floor had the records of the people that worked on that floor. The one that squealed the loudest about getting a raise got a nickel or something like that an hour, and they made minimum wage [Indecipherable] was five seventy-five, or six seventy-five GS: Oh, uh-huh BB: But anyway, I had a little trouble gathering all the records of all the employees because I had to explain that each floor I go to, I had to explain how much easier it was gonna be with the records in one area, one place, and they could be relieved of taking care of them GS: Yes BB: that took time GS: Yes BB: So when they finally agreed and I got all the records, well from there they didn' ; t have any pay scale, and just hodge podge two people in that hospital that was drawing the same hourly rate GS: Oh my goodness BB: So, I come up with a wage schedule, it was a seniority wage schedule and it costs the hospital 3 million dollars to put it into effect it was so screwed up. GS: Wow BB: They had nurses that had worked there for 20 years and that' ; s--they were still drawing so little pay that they couldn' ; t recruit nurses. So once we got this straightened out and I had the pay of a nurse which would make her willing to come if pay was the cause of her coming or not coming, and so that proved it and I don' ; t know where they got the money, maybe from the mother house I don' ; t know, but anyway it went into effect. GS: Sounds like they really needed you BB: Well they needed someone GS: Yes BB: And there' ; s one thing about me: I love people, I just love people GS: That' ; s wonderful BB: I' ; ll talk to anybody about anything at any time. I' ; ll go into a store with Gonda, she' ; s going after something, it won' ; t be three seconds or minutes, until I' ; m talking to someone and she' ; ll come out, we' ; ll leave the store, she " ; Who was that?" ; and I said " ; I don' ; t have the slightest idea. I said Hello, they said hello, and I started talking to them" ; . That' ; s why I like the personnel field, that wasn' ; t all I did in the military, but I was in the administrative area because I got hurt when I first went in the army, I was in the 7th cavalry horse. GS: Oh my goodness, you were in the cavalry BB: Yes, and I got injured on my knee. I rode in between--I was a squad leader and I [Indecipherable] when we went into the line for parade, it was supposed to leave room for me to ride in, it didn' ; t. GS: Uh-oh BB: So I spurred my horse and forced my way in and the rifle on the one of the left of me, the [Indecipherable] caught my knee GS: Oh wow BB: And it messed it up really, really bad. GS: Aw BB: I had to have surgery twice and I couldn' ; t crawl after that, they ran that thing all the way down. Now then it' ; s orthoscopic and a little hole and I' ; ve got probably a twelve-inch scar over my knee, and I can' ; t get down on my knee at all GS: To this day Bb: Yeah it' ; s--the scar is tender GS: Aw, uh-huh BB: And so they put me in an administrative field and that' ; s where I got into the first [Indecipherable] field. But I was interested in them for [Indecipherable] and I thought the relationship that I had with them, if it was good, they' ; d do a lot more GS: Yes BB: Because they would come and talk to me about anything. But you see, I had about 75 or 80% women, and the rest of them was in the maintenance part GS: Yes, yes BB: I didn' ; t have any male nurses at all GS: Not back then BB: Uh-uh. And if I knew that one of the men from the maintenance department, their daughter, had had a baby, I would stop and ask him how the baby was doing and things like that, I always--I showed an interest in anything that I knew that was important to them. And consequently, two years after I retired and moved to Bristow, we went back to visit Gondas sister that lives in the Sandy Mountains west, south west of Albuquerque GS: Oh okay BB: And from there, it' ; s only about 40 miles to Santa Fe. So I went back up to Santa Fe to visit the hospital ; oh my goodness. They was all over me! GS: Oh I bet they were delighted to see you! BB: They hugged me, they had me by the arms, it just made me feel so god. GS: Oh, well you made them feel good I' ; m sure when you were working there. BB: Well I got replaced by a man that had a degree in personnel management GS: He probably didn' ; t do any better BB: He lasted six month GS: (Laughing) BB: That' ; s the truth, I found that out after I went back [Indecipherable], I knew his name and ' ; where is he at?' ; , ' ; oh he got fired' ; , so. But anyway that' ; s-- GS: That' ; s amazing, I' ; m gonna back you up just a little bit and ask you about the Dust Bowl. What are your memories of Oklahoma in the Dust Bowl? BB: [Indecipherable] GS: (Laughing) BB: I don' ; t even [Indecipherable] think of it. To begin with, you couldn' ; t see anything GS: Even here in Bristow? BB: Yes, way out there where we lived on the farm just south of Bristow, it looked like a light bulb in the sky GS: Wow BB: Dark as, it was just dark. And we--you had to tie a rope to, from the barn to the house, to the chicken house, wherever you needed to go you had to have a rope to guide you from the end of the rope to the other with feed or whatever in the other hand. GS: How often was it like that where you couldn' ; t see? BB: It seemed forever GS: I' ; m sure it did BB: It wasn' ; t hardly, ya know I can' ; t tell you. I would say off and on two weeks. GS: Wow BB: Or maybe longer, I' ; m not sure. But what contributed a lot to the Dust Bowl ; peanuts were in demand at that time GS: Yes, they were, and Bristow was the quote " ; peanut capital" ; BB: Right, and when these farmers planted their peanuts, they grew up into a bush just like they' ; re supposed to GS: Uh-huh BB: Okay, if you go out and pull them up, that' ; d be a lot nuts stay in the ground. You don' ; t pull loose from the vine. So they developed, most of them, used car springs. Sharpened on the edge, it went to a single row plow GS: Wow BB: Was a two wheel called a [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh BB: Alright, that plow went underneath the ground and clipped the roots of these peanuts and left the dirt, didn' ; t make a furrow, it left the dirt just like, it just went underneath that dirt. The dirt reminded me of a mole working at the ground GS: Oh okay BB: And that loose dirt, the wind was blowing so hard, it just dished that dirt right out of--it was just like that. And when we went to school, we could walk over the fences GS: Oh my word BB: It had, it would stop behind the weed, big amount, it was just so thick and my mother, we had a bedroom, my brother and had a bedroom on the south of the house, and of course the wind was blowing from the south, she would put a sheet in a tub of water and wring it out and put it over us at night GS: To protect you from the dust? BB: Yeah, and in the morning, we was almost the color of that couch GS: Just hard to believe it was that bad BB: In the house GS: In the house, yeah BB: The windows was, keep in mind this was a house that was probably 20 years old. GS: Okay BB: Maybe a little older. So they had wooden windows, and you could shake them like that where the [Indecipherable] up and down and any crease where the dust could get in, it came in and built a little pile there, and mom would have to sweep out those windows every day. GS: Oh my goodness BB: She' ; d sweep it out on the porch, [Indecipherable], and sweep it out on the porch GS: Yeah BB: But we survived GS: Yes BB: And it' ; s been everybody, [Indecipherable] died far as I knew GS: How bad did it affect your crops? BB: Not bad other than sand piling up GS: Yeah B: Or there was something that it could hit GS: Yeah BB: But a lot of people took the fence down and used to tame horses in what they called a slip, which had two hands and you could fill it, it was fixed to where you could raise it up, it wasn' ; t on a [Indecipherable], it was fixed to work. You could raise it up and hold it and it would go into the ground, that' ; s how horses pulled it GS: Oh BB: And then you pushed down in it, it' ; d come up out of the ground GS: I see BB: So and then you go in where you wanna dump it, you raise up on the handle and then it just dumped it. And they would take this sand and spread it back out over the field then set their fence again where it was to have a decent fence to keep the stock outside. GS: Yeah, one that wasn' ; t covered in dirt that the cattle could just walk right over probably BB: Yes, yes, yes. Not every fence, but the fence that run east and west because the dirt was coming from the south. Now it--I don' ; t know how much area or how wide it was, I was too young to know, I was in about the third, fourth grade or something like that. It was enough, it would plug your nose when you breathe, we never thought about wearing a mask back then GS: Yeah BB: But anyway it was, it was bad. GS: Now you told me that you entered WWII in 1940?BB: MhmGS: Was that before Pearl Harbor? BB: Yeah GS: What made you enter then? BB: Well, I didn' ; t wanna be a farmer, dad wanted me to be a--well he wanted me, he' ; s getting old and he wanted me to take over my end of the farm, I didn' ; t want that. I didn' ; t wanna starve, if I did I wanted to starve doing what I wanted to do GS: Uh-huh BB: No it wasn' ; t really that bad, but it was hard work GS: Sure BB: But one of the guys, a friend of mine, came home and he was stationed at Fort Sheridan (ph), Wyoming, and he was telling me how great the military was. So I wasn' ; t doing anything, I thought ' ; well, if that' ; s a case, I' ; ll just enlist and go with you back to Fort Sheridan, okay' ; , I said okay. I went to Tulsa, enlisted, they signed me to the infantry, and they put me in a pan, it looked like it had ink in it, I don' ; t know what it was. It had me stay on a my [Indecipherable] that long, and had me stand on a piece of paper to check my instep GS: Huh BB: And my foot, my instep was as flat as it could be GS: Well BB: And they took me out of the infantry immediately and assigned me to the cavalry GS: Well good BB: We had to go this way and that way [Indecipherable] GS: Oh, yeah. BB: Yeah, but that' ; s the way I started out. It wasn' ; t a big deal to me, I knew how to ride a horse GS: Yes BB: But I didn' ; t know how to ride it military style GS: Yes BB: If you was comfortable on a horse in the military, something was wrong GS: Really? BB: Really. That' ; s--the saddle to begin with had a split about two to three inches wide right down the middle GS: Oh no! BB: To let the air into the horse' ; s back GS: AhhBB: That was their [Indecipherable] that that kept the heat from the horse' ; s back GS: I see BB: Calling them [Indecipherable] GS: But I bet it was not comfortable to sit on BB: It was not, it was not. But you had to saddle [Indecipherable], every day. And you come in from training and you had to saddle [Indecipherable], saddle it, clean it up GS: Wow BB: Corral your horse GS: Yes BB: Water them, and tie them in the stalls for feeding. The stables sergeant took care of the feeding them but you had to get them there. GS: Right BB: And odd thing people laugh about it, they had [Indecipherable] they were boarding for horses, if one of them was limping or had a cold, a horse can take a cold, and whatever was wrong with them, he took them to the vet GS: Well BB: And if one of them was your horse, you didn' ; t--they didn' ; t give you another horse to ride, they put you on stable police, and that was cleaning out stalls and hauling that stuff to the mound where we put it GS: So you probably hoped your horse never got sick BB: Yeah that' ; s the truth. But you--we used shoe polish on their hooves for inspection, oh they glistened. All the brass was shiny ; we weren' ; t gonna miss stuff. GS: Did you ever go to battle on your horse? BB: No, I--after I got her and was sent to Fort Riley, about that time they had horses there, we had, I think we had one group of recruits come in for horse equitation, and then they did away with them GS: Oh, huh BB: Because they was recognizing GS: Oh I see BB: And so the horses, they had some mules that they sent to Italy for pack mules to take artillery up into the mountain GS: Okay BB: But no horses GS: Okay BB: But they--horses, the buyers would go somewhere and buy horses, they may be in from a wild herd, I don' ; t know. But they would ride them one time to a standstill, they had GIs, that was their duty is to break the horses. GS: Oh BB: Yeah, so they--the horse was ridden and stopped bucking, it didn' ; t mean it wasn' ; t gonna buck again, but not as much (Background noise) GS: We' ; ll stop for just a minute. BB: Get back in there GS: There' ; s nobody there, there' ; s nobody there (Background noises) BB: Coda (ph), Coda, get over here. Here. GS: You were in the personnel department then, where were you stationed for most of the war? BB: After the war, I was-- GS: No during the war BB: Oh, well actually I left Fort Bliss about the time of Pearl Harbor GS: Okay BB: And I went like I said, to [Indecipherable], I mean to Fort Riley, Kansas, and this place that I was assigned to was a cavalry replacement training center. We did with the recruit, [Indecipherable] had been drafted, enlisted, whatever, they got their basic training there. GS: Okay BB: Not everybody was all over the United States, just that area GS: Okay BB: And it was every, about every six weeks there was a turnover and I was assigned to department of weapons as a weapons--cut it out--as a weapons instructor GS: Okay BB: And I was there for five years and-- (Background noise) BB: And from there, I went to Topeka, Kansas which wasn' ; t a post, it was a city that the reserve of Kansas held meetings there and different places rather than over the state. And I was a-- an advisor to the Kansas reserve GS: Okay BB: Regular army advisor, which meant that you went where they had meetings, and you didn' ; t take their count, you made count GS: Okay BB: So that you--there, who said ' ; here' ; was actually here, and the number, what was it, coincided with the number of people that said here. GS: Okay, uh-huh BB: And from there, I was with the horses, I went to Austria GS: Okay BB: I went to a post that was 50 miles down in the valley from [Indecipherable] GS: Oh my gosh BB: And it was just between two mountains [Indecipherable]. After the war, during the war, the American soldiers had acquired a hotel on the lake, big lake from the Germans, and they were using it to send our men to train people who were unaccompanied who didn' ; t have their dependents with them when they went overseas. They--and they had to take a six-week basic training to learn how to deal with the civilian population because we were an army of occupation and we had to get along with the people, and so I came back from there after about a year, year and a half, moved back to [Indecipherable], and I was sergeant major, post sergeant major for [Indecipherable] Military post. Now to anybody this doesn' ; t mean that much, but we were in charge of a transportation unit, we were in charge of an MP unit, and we were in charge of an intelligence unit. GS: Wow BB: So, I was there four years. During that time there, I was in Holland coming home, I was in Italy, I was in North Africa-- GS: Oh myBB: And get the ship to come out. Eight days in that water, I never got so sick of water in my life. GS: It' ; s a good thing you weren' ; t in the navy then BB: Yeah, but it' ; s odd how different people are in their homeland. For an example, we went through Italy, we saw an old man plowed his grapes with a horse and a cow GS: Oh my goodness BB: And the grapes were big as a fence post GS: Oh my word BB: [Indecipherable] And they were trim dried down to a nub GS: Huh BB: It was odd ; I didn' ; t know you could trim grapes that close. GS: Yeah BB: And Holland there was an island out 20 miles from the shore [Indecipherable], completely surrounded by the sea, salt water with a fresh water spring on the Island GS: How odd BB: Yeah it was odd. They--one thing was odd too, a boy and a girl gets engaged, he is required to make her a wooden shoe. They were [Indecipherable] GS: Yes BB: And when they get married, he gives her the other one. That' ; s a custom, but it' ; s a nice friendly country. We went to Poland, we stayed in a hotel, we eat at the hotel (Background Noises) GS: We' ; ll stop right there. [Indecipherable] There we go, that' ; ll hush you up. BB: We were there four days and when we returned to--hush--Frankford, Germany, we rode electric train to Holland and back. [Indecipherable]. We had spent $74 GS: Oh BB: But I was in uniform and they didn' ; t charge me like they did my wife GS: Aw BB: I came back to the states and was assigned to Fort Eustis, Virginia and a transportation unit was there. But that fall every morning, the dampness, I couldn' ; t take, my knee would--it wouldn' ; t take it. So they assigned me to Fort Bliss, Texas. GS: Yes. You' ; re fine, go on, I' ; m just checking this again. BB: And the unit I was assigned to there was--they were experimenting in low flying aircraft, what certain sized bombs would do GS: Oh myBB: To get as many personnel as you could. And we didn' ; t fly planes, but we' ; d fill flour sacks with about a three-pound paper bag and they drop those from the plane when they--when we signal them, they drop them. And we measured the distance that this flour flew out GS: Yes BB: And it' ; d given us approximately how many guys might be in that area. GS: I see BB: And then one time I remember each time we went out, they would drop one right after another, which made it almost the circle come--to the edge of the circle that they dropped the bomb for GS: Uh-huh BB: So it was a concentration of low flying air GS: And they could get more BB: Yeah GS: Enemies that way BB: Yeah, and that' ; s what--I was first sergeant of the unit there. From there, I went to Santa Fe, New Mexico as an advisor to the New Mexico National Guard GS: And was this still during the war? BB: Yeah GS: Okay BB: Yeah, and after that, I went to Hawaii and I was there for three years. I was working in the headquarters, I was in charge of, they told me, roughly forty thousand classified documents GS: Oh my goodness BB: They would come--they were in charge of the building construction in the south west pacific, and then it would be the coming and going of the information between there and Hawaii because it was a headquarters of the union. And I left there and the state [Indecipherable] general for New Mexico requested that I be assigned, reassigned New Mexico ; my old job, so that' ; s where I retired GS: Okay, and that' ; s how you met Gonda then, because you were there in New Mexico BB: Yeah GS: Okay BB: I retired at the highest in [Indecipherable] command sergeant major, and always felt that for somebody with an 8th grade education, wasn' ; t bad GS: I don' ; t think it was at all BB: I taught school GS: Oh you did? BB: Yeah GS: Tell me about that BB: When I was, after I graduated, time I graduated in June, we used to get out of school in June, and I was 12 years old and then I was 13 the following November. So I went to--I enlisted, I enrolled in Bristow High school, the bus went by the house, I was proud of my new striped overalls and new shirt, but there was a group of guys at that farmer had no place in Bristow high school, and they drove me out, I quit-- GS: Aw, those bullies BB: I told my dad I wasn' ; t gonna put up with that, so that' ; s why I wound up with an 8th grade education. But anyway this school teacher which happened to be [Indecipherable], of the VanOrsdol clan that' ; s here. GS: Yes, yes. BB: He was a farmer, and at certain times he had to take off to plow, certain times he had to take off to maintain, sometimes he had to take off to gather so he needed someone for two or three days at a time, and he asked me if I would like to substitute teach. I went through school, just like that, it was easy for me. And I don' ; t mean to brag, but it was just easy GS: No but it was easy, yup. BB: And I told him that I would, he got permission from the school board to do that. It wouldn' ; t allow any pay for me, if so it would have to come from him. And being a friend as well as a teacher, I wasn' ; t going to ask him to pay me for it cause I wasn' ; t doing anything GS: Yes BB: And it lasted during the year, school year, maybe thirty days, two days three days off and on, so it wasn' ; t no big thing but I got a lot of fun out of it GS: Well sure you did BB: But you know I felt sorry for some of the kids that had--they' ; d get to go to school maybe out of the nine-month session and they might get in three months four months GS: Oh my BB: Helping at home GS: Yeah BB: And so we had some sixteen, seventeen-year-old pupil that was in the sixth, seventh grade GS: Was that in the early thirties? BB: Yeah it had to be GS: That' ; s what I figured BB: Probably 32' ; , I think the dust storm was in 32' ; GS: Okay BB: The depression GS: Yes BB: Wasn' ; t fun either GS: No it wasn' ; t BB: I saw people, they never did complain, the guy with a wagon, the team would pull up with their commodities they called them GS: Yes BB: Maybe they in a--in a sack, they might have a couple of pounds of flour and some oat meal and maybe some salt or bacon powder or something like that, and they' ; d hand me tools, I never heard anybody complain. And of course this was a district thing we was getting probably, oh maybe 20 people from families. GS: Did you ever see the food kitchens or soup lines or anything like that during the depression? BB: The what? GS: Oh the food kitchens and the soup lines, did you ever see those? BB: Nothing in Bristow was like that. But during the Roosevelt administration, he paid farmers, for an example not to raise cotton. My dad was one of the people to go measure the cotton and measure the field and for the past five years, they would pay you for how many bales of cotton you had raised on that field during that five years. And it also meant that you couldn' ; t--I' ; ve had people plow cotton, it was that high. I say I' ; ve had--I' ; d go with my dad to measure and I saw farmers not wanting to do it. GS: Well sure BB: But they had to, it was a law that they had to do it GS: Why did they have to do it? BB: So that there wouldn' ; t be so much on the market. GS: Okay BB: Cattle ranchers did the same thing, they' ; d kill cattle, shot them right where they were standing GS: Wow BB: People would jump on them cows and take a quarter home GS: And this was during the depression? BB: Yeah GS: Wow, that almost doesn' ; t make sense, does it? BB: Well it wasn' ; t no way to keep the meat GS: Right BB: They would take the choice pieces, take them home and as long as they lasted and would not get rancid, well they would eat it and maybe sell them afterwards, I don' ; t know. GS: Wow BB: Anyway, they did that and then they canned a lot of meat, the government did GS: Okay BB: And issued back as canned meat to people. And I think I just about covered a hundred deer GS: (Laughing) BB: I think I [Indecipherable] GS: Did you go to church as a child? BB: Pardon? GS: Did you go to church as a child? BB: Oh yes, the church I was with was right across the road from me GS: What church was that? BB: It was the Advent Christian GS: Okay, okay, and-- BB: It' ; s like the one going south of Chestnut GS: Okay and your whole family went, did your whole family go? BB: Yes, Yeah. GS: Do you have any special fond memories of that? BB: Yeah, my mom and I had to sweep it out every Saturday, so it' ; d be ready for Sunday. The seats, them' ; s the hardest things to sweep around GS: I imagine BB: You couldn' ; t move them, they' ; d screwed to the floor GS: Yeah, bolted to the floor, yes. BB: Yeah I do remember--you know, in those days, there wasn' ; t any automobiles, there just wasn' ; t that many GS: Right, people couldn' ; t afford them, could they? BB: No, and they' ; d come in a wagon, some of them made 10 miles to church GS: Wow BB: And in the wagon they would have hay where they take the team from the front, bring one of them on one side and one on the other side and tie them there so they could eat this hay while they was there at church. GS: Oh my goodness, wow. BB: And they would bring almost every Sunday, there was dinner on the ground. And that' ; s why we kids looked forward to--It wasn' ; t, I don' ; t guess it was really every Sunday. It was just special Sunday, I mean a special, yeah special Sunday. And anyway it was, it seemed frequent, but they, about two oh, two thirty they' ; d all start piling back into the wagon and taking off for home. GS: What about doctors? Did you go to the doctors much when you were a child? Or your family? BB: No, the doctor come to us. GS: Okay, okay. BB: Yeah the doctor by the name of Doctor King and he drove a touring car I think it was a dodge and he had a crate on the bumper of the car and he would take chickens, he would take hogs, he would take anything, he owned a farm. And he' ; d take anything that he could take back to that farm GS: For payment?BB: Yeah GS: Yup BB: And we' ; ve taken a hog by there a lot of times when we' ; d be going to town. We finally got a model T Ford, touring, but that was top stuff GS: I bet it was BB: Yeah GS: I bet your father was proud of that BB: Yeah but he didn' ; t know how to drive, my sister--my sister drove and we later got a thirty, forty-seven Chevrolet coop. And he couldn' ; t drive the thing, so I was--well I was 12 so it was 32' ; I guess, and so I drove and I couldn' ; t hardly see over the steering wheel, I had to set on the edge of the seat and to shift cause he would put the car in low and then jerk it and put it all the way in high GS: Oh my goodness BB: And you could hear that car grinding GS: Oh I imagine BB: I told him, I said " ; Dad, you' ; re gonna ruin your transmission" ; , " ; Well you drive if you' ; re so smart" ; so I did. GS: Did you come into town much? Did you bring your goods for--to market? BB: Saturday GS: Okay, what was that like? BB: Butter and egg day. Well that' ; s the only time you had any money. GS: Okay BB: Momma had customers that she sold butter to and eggs. And for all the eggs that was left, we took them to Safeway and they' ; d be able to take the eggs and pay you in what you wanted to buy GS: Okay BB: So you didn' ; t get any money GS: But you got food or-- BB: Yeah you got food. But the butter and eggs in the community were in Bristow that she sold, she got money for that. She--my dad had a good name with the merchants in Bristow ; they would trust him. If he needed a plow share, he' ; d say ' ; I want you to go in and see Mr. Stone, tell him to send me a plow share for twelve-inch breaking plow (ph) and I' ; ll pay him Saturday when I come in' ; That' ; s all that' ; s needed, so I meeted Mr. Stone ' ; Dad said so-and-so' ; he gave it to me and I go back home. And that' ; s the way it was about anything. If he bought several sacks of feed for the horses, and it was almost thirty dollars. So he gave it to momma, my brother was coming to town and so she came with him to get groceries and he gave it to momma to get the groceries and then put the rest of it in the American National Bank, Spirit Bank took over American National. GS: Yes BB: Or it became Spirit Bank GS: Right BB: She always tied any money she had, any bills or [Indecipherable] in the corner of a handkerchief GS: I see ; I remember my grandmother doing that BB: Well, she got out on my brother' ; s car and went in to buy the groceries. She went to pay it, no money. They went back out-- this has all been told to me, I wasn' ; t along--and went back out and they looked and looked. So finally she saw it laying next to the curb, she recognized the handkerchief ; there was two guy standing there leaning up against a light post. So she went over there and picked it up and he' ; s chewing tobacco and probably, you know, spittin' ; around it what have you. And in front of them, she opened it up to see if it' ; s all there, [Indecipherable] GS: (Laughing)BB: Standing right there with it wrapped around thirty dollars GS: They might not have realized it was hers and they were thinking " ; We could' ; ve had that" ; BB: Right. They was going to charge the groceries, but when she found the money she went back and paid for it ; everything turned out. But things come up, one thing that I laughed at more than anything was probably my dad sold a breaking plow to a bootlegger. GS: Oh, haha! BB: And he was to pay him at a certain day. Well that day passes and no money. Dad waited, I don' ; t know, two or three weeks or something, and he stopped by Mr. Floods little shack, said you know " ; I need my money for the breaking plow" ; " ; Well I just don' ; t have it John H." ; said " ; I' ; ll tell ya what I' ; ll do, I' ; ll give it to you in whiskey" ; . It was fifty cents a pint. I mean it was old shotgun, it wasn' ; t like the stuff that you get this [Indecipherable] it was homemade GS: Home brewed, yes BB: So he took it was, I think there was 6 pints, and dad didn' ; t drink, but my brothers did once and a while when they' ; d come home GS: Uh-huh BB: So he took this home GS: Yes BB: And put it behind a washboard that was leaning up against the corner of the garage GS: Yes BB: Well during the meantime, leaves and [indecipherable] blew into the garage GS: Uh-huh BB: And there was enough behind this washboard that a hen started laying back there, made a nest back there. Mom was getting eggs everyday behind that washboard, oh man the day we got home, he said ' ; I don' ; t know what I' ; m gonna do with this stuff' ; and I said ' ; Well put it there behind that washboard' ; I didn' ; t know there was a hen laying there then GS: Yeah BB: Well he said " ; that might be a good idea" ; so he put it behind the washboard, you couldn' ; t see it if you didn' ; t know it was there. Momma went to gather eggs, you' ; d think that a rattle snake had bit her ; she screamed " ; Johnny, you got time to come here?" ; . She poured it out right there in front of him, every drop of it. GS: She probably thought he was drinking it or something BB: He didn' ; t say anything, cause he knew it shouldn' ; t be there to begin with. GS: Yeah BB: But that was funny to me. Fall days, a lot of things happen, I couldn' ; t start to cover any of it. Most of the stuff when you live on a farm, it happens and it happens so often, it just comes common place GS: Right BB: And you don' ; t think about--make her stay down GS: Oh she' ; s okay, she' ; s quiet when she' ; s laying on my lap. BB: But that' ; s about, unless you' ; ve got some questions GS: Well I have a few more here BB: Okay GS: I won' ; t tire you out too much, but--Do you remember anything about the Works, Works Protection Act during the 40' ; s and-- BB: The WPA? GS: Or the 30' ; s I guess it was, yeah the WPA, do you have any memories of that? BB: Yeah, yeah. There was, there' ; s a funny thing that was attached to that too. They had lots of pick and shovel prize, I mean they did everything with pick and shovel GS: Okay BB: And then so many guys in the -- had to register that lived in the community, and each one of them would get fifteen days' ; work, then-- GS: Okay BB: And they' ; d take ten men or half of them, and they' ; d work the first fifteen days and then the second half of them worked the next fifteen days. GS: Okay BB: Well they was building a bridge south of the house and they had to build it up pretty good on the road to elevate the bridge enough so there wasn' ; t a--a big drop off, you just kind of a slope down to the bridge if you cross. Well they was doing it all with wheelbarrows, they' ; d you know, they' ; d take it out and dump the dirt then come back and somebody else would fill it up at the bottom. Well, chewing tobacco then was a common thing, and smoking [Indecipherable]. Well this one guy chewed tobacco but he never had any. And he bummed chewing tobacco every day, so I went to this guy and he told him, he said--ask him for chewing tobacco, and he said ' ; now shorty, I' ; m gonna give you a chewing tobacco' ; but he said ' ; I don' ; t want any more complaints out of you, or I don' ; t want any more asking about chewing tobacco' ; . So it was in the summer time and they' ; d sweat and salt would go on their back then their armpits, well he had a new plug of chewing tobacco, so he took it out, rubbed it under his arm, all that sweat under there, and he handed it to him, he said ' ; what did you do that for?' ; . Well he said ' ; I always chew my tobacco--I mean I always do that to my tobacco, it causes it to be moist and last longer' ; well that guy said ' ; I don' ; t want any of this' ; and handed it back to him and never asked him for chewing tobacco again. GS: That man was pretty smart, wasn' ; t he? BB: Yeah, the guy said ' ; I ruined it, but it was a dime at the store, said I only lost a plug of tobacco, but he never did ask for another chew' ; . GS: That' ; s just too funny, that is good. Okay, we' ; re winding down here Basil. BB: They [Indecipherable], they did good work. GS: Would that be PA? BB: Yeah for years after your--they built school houses, they built--well of course it was the outhouses too, they built those, they lasted forever it seems like. GS: Do you remember when they built the amphitheater here in Bristow? BB: Yes GS: Or that building? BB: Yes GS: Yeah BB: Yes GS: Did you come in to see Eleanor Roosevelt? BB: No I wasn' ; t gonna walk to town to see that GS: Oh you would' ; ve have to have walked? BB: Probably, dad probably wouldn' ; t let me use a [Indecipherable] GS: Okay, we' ; re gonna wind down here. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your life time? BB: The most-- GS: The most important inventions that have been--happened in your lifetime BB: Oh my goodness GS: There have been so many, I know it' ; s hard to pick one. BB: I think the one that has probably involved more people, served more people, and was a convention--was a convenience for them, was the airplane. GS: The airplane BB: Yes. Just north of Bristow, there was a guy that would come there in a little open cockpit plane GS: Uh-huh BB: It had a bar at the back at the--at the tail, underneath it. GS: Okay BB: So when you go, it would drag your [Indecipherable] GS: Okay BB: Man if it was wind blowing and dirt from that spike came in the tail there, it was terrible. But anyway, the charge, either 25 or 56, I think it was twenty-five six, for a trip around Bristow and back. GS: Oh, well that' ; s cool! I never had heard that. BB: I didn' ; t do that ; I wouldn' ; t have gotten into one of those things for anything. GS: Was the first time you flew when you were in the service? BB: Yeah GS: Yeah, I kinda figured that. BB: But not very many people would get in it. GS: How' ; s the world different now than when you were a child? BB: Not really. GS: How is it different? How is the world different today than it was when you were growing up, or is it? BB: Well, still around. GS: (Laughing) Hasn' ; t got flat yet, has it? BB: It' ; s gonna get that way. It' ; s the people that' ; s different, that' ; s the biggest thing. The world itself has furnished lots of mysteries that were unsolvable until recent years. But the people is really the biggest thing that I-- GS: How are they different Basil? BB: Oh my goodness, there is not a drop of love between families, neighbors. You know, used to if you--farmer broke his arm and it was time to plow, as soon as somebody heard about it, here they are, they' ; d come and plow his farm for him and wherever he wanted it plowed. Just like he would go if somebody else needs him, you know. If they heard--if somebody gets sick, they' ; d go sit up with them, you know. Work the next day would go sit up two to three hours with them at night. A woman, or a man died, we went into community and got them ready--the caskets were so flimsy, oh they were flimsy. And then they would put them in the casket and they would put them on the back of that, have a board on the back, generally a door off of a corncrib or something ; the back of two chairs, put the casket up on top of that, and they would take them to the cemetery in a wagon, and someone would go that morning and dig the grave and have it ready when they got there with the corpse. GS: Wow. BB: And people that went to the funeral wanted to get in the car, hooked up a team, left early enough that they' ; d get there for the funeral. But generally they would have a funeral at, I' ; ve seen them have it at the church, I mean at the hold, if there wasn' ; t any churches close. Where we live, the church is across the road, they' ; d have funerals there. But I don' ; t know how those caskets stay together, I' ; ve thought about that so much really during my life, it' ; d come across my mind ; flimsy. GS: It was a greater sense of community back then, wasn' ; t it? BB: It what? GS: A greater sense of community back then, wasn' ; t it? People helping each other in the community. BB: Yes, and it was just love for people. Another thing too, if a kid was at a house and something happened and they got into a little trouble or something, their mom was on the phone calling the kids momma, they' ; d send him home, tell her what they did, what he did, if they knew exactly--boy when you got home you got it. GS: I' ; ve heard that a lot, it' ; s a shame it' ; s not that way anymore. BB: No GS: Okay, we are in the middle of a pandemic, have you ever seen anything like what we' ; re living through right now? BB: No, no. Generally, the flu, you knew that it wasn' ; t lasting more than three or four days, and it was over with. GS: Right BB: But the thing you don' ; t know how long it' ; s going to last, you don' ; t know what causes it, you can' ; t prepare against it, other than what they suggest. GS: Right BB: You know, I' ; m almost afraid to get out of the house GS: Of course you are BB: And I stay home [Indecipherable] GS: Yup. BB: And Gonda doesn' ; t bother GS: Is Gonda still working? BB: You know what her job is? GS: What? BB: Taking care of her granddaughter GS: Oh BB: She takes care of Jessica' ; s little girl GS: I did not know that BB: Three houses down GS: Well that' ; s wonderful, that' ; s a nice job to have. BB: Yeah, once you retire, Jessica asked " ; what' ; re you gonna do?" ; Gonda said " ; I don' ; t know, but I' ; ll probably need something to do" ; she said " ; I' ; ve got a job for you" ; so she' ; s been taking care of the little girl for--ever since she been born GS: That' ; s wonderful BB: She' ; ll go to [Indecipherable] her grandma will sometimes leave her mother with her grandma. I never seen some I really, not because she' ; s my life, I have never ever seen a grandma like my wife. She will--one of the grandkids asked her, said, I' ; ve had it a couple of years ' ; Grandma, would you take us to McDonalds and get us a hamburger?' ; and she just drops everything and gets in the car and takes them McDonalds GS: I bet she didn' ; t do that with her own kids when they were little. BB: No, no GS: There' ; s something about being a grandma that can change that BB: Yeah she, well, all our kids I was part of it, and I was kind of rough on my boys, I tried to tell them what value was and how it should work in their lives, and never ever smear your name. And of course other things, they just knew how I stood, they knew how to work, of course I showed them how to work. But Jessica come along, she got it a little soft. She was a girl then, I treated her a little differently. GS: Well Basil can you think of anything else you' ; d like to tell me? BB: Not really. GS: Well I just consider it a great privilege to have been able to interview you BB: Well thank you so much GS: And I appreciate it ever so much. BB: Well that' ; s just like, I appreciate it being on TV GS: Yes BB: I never thought something like that would happen. And Jessica was the cause of it. GS: Oh was she? BB: Yeah she has a friend, this lady from-- GS: Amy Kaughman (ph)? BB: Yeah, Amy. GS: Uh-huh BB: Yeah, and so Amy was talking about [Indecipherable] and what have you interviewing somebody, she said " ; Oh why don' ; t you interview my dad, he' ; s has a birthday, he' ; s 100 years old, well he' ; ll just fit right in" ; GS: Well I think it did! BB: I was out then at the country club for about three hours GS: Oh my goodness BB: And they had my driving balls on the range, driving range GS: I saw that, you did pretty good there BB: They had me on the putting green and there was one hole that must' ; ve been thirty feet from where it--I never putted a ball on that green in 20 years, I didn' ; t know where it [Indecipherable] naturally, but I could see where there was a little slope to that hole, so all I wanted to do was just try to get it close enough for a tap in. I hit it, and it started curving, went right in that hole GS: Oh how wonderful Basil! BB: And he had the camera on it all the way GS: Oh that' ; s perfect, that is perfect. Well thank you so much-- BB: Oh you' ; re welcome GS: Yup it' ; s still going so we' ; re good BB: I' ; m sorry those dogs [Indecipherable] GS: Oh those dogs didn' ; t bother me at all BB: Finally, this one-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-08_Baker,_Basil.xml OHP-2020-08_Baker,_Basil.xml
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Basil Baker
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Basil Baker shares his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his family, military service, and life during the dust bowl.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-2020-08
Date
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2020-12-13
Format
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audio
Creator
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound, oral history
Advent Christian Church
banks
Bristow Public Schools
Dust Bowl
farming
Great Depression
Mills Chapel
peanuts
statehood
stores
World War II
WPA
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bill Dalpoas
Beth Dalpoas
OHMS Object
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-18_Dalpoas_Bill_and_Beth.xml
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5.4 June 3, 2021 OHP-2021-18 Bill and Beth Dalpoas OHP-2021-18 00:00 - 53:53 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bill Dalpoas Beth Dalpoas Georgia Smith MP3 1:|62(11)|84(4)|121(4)|138(16)|168(3)|198(2)|232(7)|255(1)|305(11)|343(5)|385(2)|411(16)|430(2)|470(4)|509(11)|552(4)|591(4)|618(9)|638(5)|666(3)|696(8)|729(14)|772(12)|795(3)|814(12)|857(7)|892(7)|924(5)|943(10)|981(12)|1000(14)|1049(7)|1073(4)|1118(6)|1147(8)|1162(3)|1178(3)|1203(6)|1229(7)|1251(4)|1268(3)|1287(13)|1305(2)|1327(7)|1358(11)|1388(5)|1407(9)|1438(9)|1468(8)|1493(9)|1513(11)|1523(16)|1543(5)|1563(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-18 Dalpoas, Bill and Beth.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction BD: Here we go BD: Red light is on GS: Yup, and it’s running so here we go. BD: Okay GS: Alright, this is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma., and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The day is June 3rd, 2021 and I am sitting here at the home of Bill and Beth Dalpoas, who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, I’ll start with you Beth ; give me your full name and your date of birth. BD: Wow. Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas. Birthday: March 19, 1939, in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: Okay thank you, and Bill what was your full name at birth and birth date, and place. Dick List ; Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas ; Hartshorne, Oklahoma ; J.L. Bobson ; J.L. Turner ; McAlester, Oklahoma ; William Raymond Dalpaos 185 Local Businesses GS: Well we’re glad you didn’t. So what job did you come to here? BD: I was manager of a store. We opened in the old Safeway location, which is now Homestead. GS: Okay that’s right, Safeway was there BD: Right off the corner GS: 8th in Main, uh-huh. BD: And we opened the store and it was kinda [Indecipherable] store, we’d get big baskets of socks that were not even matched and we had to go through all of them and match them GS: Oh wow BD: It was nationwide department stores, wasn’t it? Ben Franklins ; Cleo Pinson ; Department Stores ; Dollar General ; Hi-Way Cafe ; Homestead ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; Travis Paten ; Walmart ; Wolverton Mountain https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186812043/cleo-wayne-pinson Cleo Pinson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmztcX_BtI Wolverton Mountain 643 Organizations and Church Life GS: Okay so when you moved here, did you get active in any of the organizations here in town? BD: Yeah we— GS: I’ll start with Bill, and then I’ll jump to you Beth BD: We had started a JC Program GS: Okay BD: I was president of JC’s for two years. We had a hundred members GS: Wow! BD: But— BD: Now that’s a certain age group, the JC’s are. GS: Okay Ashley Vandever ; Barbara Hutten ; Danny Ashley ; Dunaways Funeral Home ; First Baptist Church ; JC Program ; Johnny Carmichael ; Joule Dean Masterson ; Linda Suther ; Mary Hellen Holmes ; Morris Hancock ; Stacey James ; Sue Tapana ; Swimming Pool Project ; Western Heritage 1003 Special Memories and Events GS: Okay so do you have any anecdotes about those years, or special memories of events that happened during that time? BD: Well at one point in time I was a Welcome Wagon hostess for Bristow GS: Very good! BD: And the business professional women, we had a big committee of that— or group of that GS: Yes BD: And they got Jane Ann Jurough (ph), the reigning at that point in time, to come down. GS: Yes BD: And they— they had decorated the force field house with the big swing and all of that, and as the welcome wagon hostess, I got to go out to the [Indecipherable] house west of town GS: Yes Ally Reynolds ; Ashland, Oklahoma ; Buddy ; Corwins Dentistry ; Danny Hanks ; David Leflar ; Dowell Matthews ; Dr. Copiague ; Fort Cob ; Hartshorne, Oklahoma ; Jane Ann Jurough ; Johnny Darnell ; Jones Foundation ; Mr. Wells ; Myrtle Alexander ; Presbyterian ; Robert Jones ; Steve Holland ; Thurmans Hotel ; Welcome Wagon 1910 Entertainment GS: Yeah. Okay so you had a lot of the youth in your home BD: Yes GS: What else did you do for entertainment Bill? BD: Well we went dancing a lot GS: Oh where did you go dancing? BD: Anywhere there was a dance BD: Anywhere—When we first got married, we’d go to a dance every week GS: Were there dances here in Bristow? BD: No BD: No, that was before we moved here, there was Italian place in McAlester that would have us come at—it wasn’t Pete’s place, it was [Indecipherable] Big George Joseph ; Cara Jean Thompson ; Dana Dalpoas ; dance ; dancing ; Danny Dalpoas ; Jitterbug ; Pete's Place ; Roland Hotel ; Saturday Night Fever 2084 Work GS: Okay so Beth tell me about your time at Edison Elementary BD: Well, when we moved out here in 1976, and we got all settled and everything, I didn’t have anything to do. Both of the children were in school, he was at work, and so I went to Doctor Carmichael and I said “I’m ready to go to work. Is there anything available” you know? Well there was two or three jobs available, and I said “put me where you want me” and he put me as kindergarten aid. So for two or three years, I had my own room, where home alone is now, and I had every kindergartener every day. GS: Wow BD: They would come to my room, ‘cus we only had half day kindergarten then GS: Yes BD: And so one room—one half of the room was for morning kindergarten, the decorations and stuff, and the other room was—half was afternoon. And that went on and I mean the decorations were what they did. I mean, we had a— Bill drew a great big tree and we put it and we decorated it for every holiday, they did paperwork. Plus, then I as given the attendance books for Edison Elementary to keep on top of that GS: Okay Betty Lindsay ; Brent ; Doctor Carmichael ; Joann Free ; Judy Vise ; Lomenick ; Mr. Sanford ; Olivia Neil ; Rex Kearly ; Scott ; Warren Carmichael https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832848/warren-c-carmichael Dr. Warren Carmichael 2523 Influential Figures GS: Looking back at the decades again, who were some of the more influential people that you think have come through Bristow that have helped Bristow? BD: Well number one Doctor Warren Carmichael (ph) GS: Okay, he was the Superintendent for the schools BD: When I was on the school board they hired him, and when he came to Bristow, Bristow’s schools were stagnant. We had old building, and that’s what we jumped on first. We started building buildings, and it just went in a different way after he came here. He got retirement for the maintenance people and all of— BD: Support people BD: Support people GS: Yeah, yeah BD: Which they appreciate it GS: Which before they didn’t have? BD: No BD: He had a chain of command, you didn’t just— GS: No you didn’t Bob Chatterton ; Dick List ; Doctor Warren Carmichael ; Joann List ; Tara Montgomery 2848 Military Service GS: That brings up a good, different direction to go in. Did any either of you or your children serve in the service? BD: I did GS: What branch? BD: Army GS: Army? BD: 11 years GS: Were you— was it during peace time or did you go overseas? BD: I didn’t go overseas because I belonged to a division that was a training division GS: Okay BD: We trained troops to go over there GS: And what years were you with the Army? BD: Oh, I enlisted when I was in high school, 1956 until 64’ and I resigned, but the army kept me on 24-hour standby for three years 45th Division ; Army ; Okmulgee 2997 Biggest Societal Impact and COVID GS: Yes, it does. It definitely does. I usually ask people looking back over your lifetime, what do you consider the biggest, maybe not invention, but the invention or situation that changed things the most, or made the most impact on society or your life? BD: Wow GS: Yeah that’s a biggie BD: When you live as long as we have, there’s been a lot GS: Yes, there has BD: Technology GS: Definitely. I think technology is a lot like Pandora’s box BD: Yes, yes BD: I think we’ve had too much. I’m like the guy in the Tulsa paper today that complained about all the computers failing and everything, and he called 911, well their computer was down, he called the police and their computer was down, so he called the chief of police and asked him ‘have they outdated pencil and paper?’. But I think we’ve got too much communicating. When I was a kid growing up in Elementary school, if I got in trouble we didn’t have a home phone, but if I got in trouble before I came home that evening, my mother already knew about it. BD: True, so true COVID ; Elementary School ; Social Distancing ; Technology ; Tulsa Paper ; Vo-Tech In this 2021 interview, Bill and Beth Dalpoas share about life in Bristow as young adults. Together, they talk about the organizations they were active in, different businesses, and entertainment during that time. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Bill and Beth Dalpoas Other Persons: Date of Interview: June 3, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-18 at 00:00 to 53:53 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. BD: Here we go BD: Red light is on GS: Yup, and it' ; s running so here we go. BD: Okay GS: Alright, this is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma., and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The day is June 3rd, 2021 and I am sitting here at the home of Bill and Beth Dalpoas, who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, I' ; ll start with you Beth ; give me your full name and your date of birth. BD: Wow. Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas. Birthday: March 19, 1939, in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: Okay thank you, and Bill what was your full name at birth and birth date, and place. BD: William Raymond Dalpoas, and I was born in Hartshorne, Oklahoma, August 5, 1938. GS: Very good, wow. Okay and what year were you two married, Beth? BD: Oh, 1959 October the 4th in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: In Hartshorne, Oklahoma. BD: We repeated our vows five years later First Baptist church in Bristow with reverend Dick List (ph) performing the ceremony. GS: Oh how wonderful! And what prompted you to do that? BD: Well, it was a promise that I had made my parents that we would do this, and-- but they didn' ; t show up. But the ladies at the church decorated with the colors that we had used in our wedding, and our son Danny carried our rings for us GS: Aw how sweet BD: And there was a reception at the church afterwards just like when we got married GS: Aw that' ; s-- that was pretty neat, that' ; s pretty neat. Well what brought you to the Bristow area Bill? BD: Well I was working in a store in McAlester, Oklahoma GS: What kind of store? BD: It was a general merchandise store, clothing. GS: Okay BD: It was a company owned by J.L. Dobson (ph). BD: Turner. J.L. Turner-- okay. BD: Out of Kentucky, and when I found out they were gonna move me to Bristow, we drove up here and looked the town over. GS: Very good BD: And we were not very impressed GS: Oh you weren' ; t? BD: No. There was [Indecipherable] and a Penny' ; s (ph) and two drug stores, two jewelry stores, and that' ; s just about all. And there was a Safeway, but that' ; s about all there was. I counted eleven empty buildings. GS: Wow, and that was in what year? BD: 1962 GS: My goodness BD: And I almost backed out when I saw the town, but I didn' ; t GS: Well we' ; re glad you didn' ; t. So what job did you come to here? BD: I was manager of a store. We opened in the old Safeway location, which is now Homestead. GS: Okay that' ; s right, Safeway was there BD: Right off the corner GS: 8th in Main, uh-huh. BD: And we opened the store and it was kinda [Indecipherable] store, we' ; d get big baskets of socks that were not even matched and we had to go through all of them and match them GS: Oh wow BD: It was nationwide department stores, wasn' ; t it? BD: Yeah it was a nationwide, and it morphed into what is now Dollar General store. GS: Oh okay! And Dollar General store is presently where a different old Safeway was (Laughter) BD: And the first person that we saw when we came to Bristow, really, was Cleo Pinson standing on the corner there by the store, singing Wolverton Mountain. GS: Oh my goodness BD: And after we looked the town over and ate at Hi-way Café, we drove around town awhile looking at houses, not knowing which side of town to look on or anything, got wound up out by the swimming pool and there was Cleo still singing Wolverton Mountain (Laughter) GS: How wonderful, Cleo was a main stay in Bristow for many years BD: Yes, and he never called me Beth, it was Beverly GS: Really? Well. BD: Beverly, the whole time, yes. GS: Okay, so how long were you with Nationwide? BD: Well, I was with them from 61' ; until 64' ; GS: Okay, and what caused you to leave them then? BD: I was hired by Travis Paten GS: Okay, to do what? BD: Be an assistant manager at a variety store, which was planned [Indecipherable] was gonna leave Bristow, and he bought the building and we opened a Ben Franklin store there. GS: I remember that, yes. So he hired you to be the manager of it? BD: Yes GS: How long did Ben Franklin' ; s last in Bristow? Well first off where was it? BD: Oh, it was right directly across the street from Safeway GS: Okay, so between 7th and 8th street on the West side BD: Yes BD: Where the parking lot is now GS: For the Mexican Restaurant BD: Right GS: Uh-huh, okay. And how long were you with Ben Franklin store? BD: Oh, till 1978 and I opened the men' ; s store GS: And what was the name of that store? BD: Bills [Indecipherable] GS: I remember that. And did you open it in Ben Franklins or in a different location-- I mean in the same building or a different location? BD: No, different location. GS: Okay, and so did-- was Ben Franklin' ; s still there, or-- and they had a different manager BD: Yes, it was still there, yes. GS: Okay, and how long did you have Bills [Indecipherable]? BD: Oh, what three years? BD: I believe so BD: Three years, and then I bought the Ben Franklin store GS: Oh okay! Okay, how long did you own it then? BD: Not very long, it burned. GS: I remember that BD: I think about two or three years later GS: Aww BD: We had it in 1982 because my dad' ; s clock that he had at the naval base in McAlester was in there that burned, Danas little flowers that she had in a coronation in high school were in there, and dads big roll top desk, remember? It was in there. BD: Yeah GS: Can you tell me anything Beth about some of the businesses that were on each side of the street? BD: I thought Bristow was a neat little town, I thought it was busy, but you know, I wasn' ; t a merchant so I-- I do know that there was-- when I was trying to find a house for us, or whatever, Chamber of Commerce wasn' ; t too happy about us moving to Bristow, but-- GS: Really? BD: Yeah, but it was-- GS: Why on earth not? BD: ' ; What kind of business are you putting in?' ; That was one of the questions, and I said " ; Well it' ; s a general merchandise, sir" ; and da-da-da, and they just weren' ; t too receptive, you know. GS: Well, that' ; s unusual BD: It really-- it really was GS: You would think they would' ; ve welcomed all business. BD: But-- no they weren' ; t, you know, because it was, you know, we had sharps, or not sharps at that time it was-- GS: Pennys (ph) BD: Pennys, and Shamus (ph) GS: Yes BS: and-- GS: Clothe stores BD: Yes, those. And we had men' ; s store, and it was like infringing on their business GS: Yes, I see BD: Which, in a way-- GS: And Patens Place (ph) BD: Yes, well Paten still had Ben Franklin, the small store. GS: Okay BS: It was-- GS: Well, but didn' ; t they have a clothing store too? BD: Yes, later on they did. GS: Oh, not right then BD: No, Pauline Paten (ph) GS: Okay BS: That was Pauline' ; s GS: I didn' ; t realize that, okay. BD: So it was-- I mean the people were great! The people themselves, you know, but I can sorta understand the business part, just like how we felt when we heard that Walmart was coming in. GS: Right, yes. BD: Bill made a comment when that happened, they said " ; What are you gonna do when Walmart opens" ; and he said " ; It wouldn' ; t matter if I had the Dallas cheerleaders dancing naked out on main street, they' ; d still go to Walmart" ; GS: Yeah BD: Which is-- GS: And Walmart has really hurt mainstream, downtown America. BD: If you look at any town that' ; s-- they have messed up main street America. I know everybody needed a job, but they had jobs before that in a different area. But it' ; s, yeah it has. BD: Yeah Walmart took 75% of my business the very first day GS: Wow, wow BD: At the time before Walmart moved in, I had 13 women working for me, and I ended up with two. GS: Oh my goodness, yeah that would be really disheartening BD: Yeah, it was GS: Yeah it would be. BD: People used to park on Main street on Saturday night because that was the late night to stay open just to see who was coming to town and to look inside the stores GS: Really? BD: It was really neat, yes GS: I like that! BD: They did! Certain people would have certain parking places every Saturday night and they parked on main street to watch the foot traffic and to see what was going on and it was really-- GS: Did we have the vertical parking then, or the horizontal? BD: We had both! GS: Okay BD: It was the vertical then we had the horizontal, and I think the ODOT said, you know, since it was a state highway, we had to do the-- BD: Parallel BD: Parallel parking GS: Yes, parallel parking BD: Whatever-- yeah, whatever that was, and so. GS: Okay so when you moved here, did you get active in any of the organizations here in town? BD: Yeah we-- GS: I' ; ll start with Bill, and then I' ; ll jump to you Beth BD: We had started a JC Program GS: Okay BD: I was president of JC' ; s for two years. We had a hundred members GS: Wow! BD: But-- BD: Now that' ; s a certain age group, the JC' ; s are. GS: Okay BD: And we were instrumental in doing a lot of things. We bought a siding machine and all the-- we did all the street signs, and put them up GS: Oh that' ; s awesome! BD: And we were instrumental in the swimming pool project GS: Yes BD: And we did a lot of-- lot of good things. GS: They have been a good organization in Bristow, they have BD: But it' ; s made up of young business men GS: Uh-huh BD: And Bristow ended up not having any GS: Yeah, yeah. Not very many, we had a few but not too many anymore, yeah. Most of them that we do-- BD: What we have now are good, but back then it was--really we went to state conventions and everything and made little Indian necklaces to represent Oklahoma. I mean the Women ; the JC Janes were the co-whatever' ; s of the JCs. GS: Were you a member of the JC Janes? BD: Yes, Barbara Hutten (ph), Ashley Vandever (ph), Sue Tapana (ph), Linda Suther (ph), yes, I mean we were all. Well I have a silver plate that says " ; Charter Member" ; For Stacey James (ph), Mary Ellen Holmes (ph), yes. GS: Yes BD: We were very active. I mean, we raffled Christmas items off, we' ; d sit and sew sequins on Christmas tree skirts and raffle those off. We were the backbone mainly of the JCs. I mean we were the support group of the JCs. Whatever they were active in, we went along with it. GS: So you didn' ; t do your own thing, you were there to back up the JCs? BD: Right GS: Okay very good, yeah. BD: And the JCs were the backbone of western heritage BD: Yes BD: We had gun fights GS: I remember, I was a kid and loved to go down to the gun fights and the stage coach coming in, bicycles build for two BD: Yes, yes GS: Lots of fun things BD: My best memory of that was I was due to get shot, and I got shot and I think it was Dunaways (ph) funeral home that had an old horse drawn hearse GS: Oh my goodness really? BD: Yeah and they come down and put me in that thing GS: Oh my goodness BD: Now this is in August bear in mind, no air conditioning, nothing BD: And it was hotter than blazes, I couldn' ; t hardly wait to get out of that thing BD: They took him ; I don' ; t know where they-- on up north main BD: they rode around with me for a while GS: Oh my goodness, I' ; d have said-- it probably wasn' ; t air conditioned, was it BD: No, no GS: Oh my goodness sakes BD: Joule Dean Masterton (ph) is -- I think I' ; ve donated the pictures, I' ; m not sure but there she is over and she' ; s tickling him trying to get him to move, but I mean he' ; s been shot you know. (Laughter) BD: But Joule Dean was trying to get him to move or something, then they loaded him up in that GS: I' ; d love to have some copies of some of those pictures BD: Okay GS: That would be just marvelous, that would be wonderful. So besides the JCs and the JC Janes, are there other organizations you were involved in? BD: Well we were very active in the First Baptist Church, we were both Sunday school teachers for Junior high, and he coached baseball-- BD: Yeah BD: For-- GS: Little league baseball? BD: Well we had church leagues then GS: Oh okay BD: If you didn' ; t attend Sunday school you didn' ; t-- GS: Play baseball BD: you didn' ; t play that week or whatever GS: Uh-huh BD: So it was-- BD: And I still have-- well there were a few that played on my team in Bristow and they still call me coach GS: Aww that' ; s nice BD: Or Papa Bill-- or Daddy Bill! BD: Yeah Daddy Bill BD: Daddy Bill, because that' ; s what Danny called him, ya know was Daddy Bill. GS: Danny? BD: Our son GS: Oh okay BD: Our son called him Daddy Bill, so I mean there were Danny Hanks, and-- my goodness BD: Ashley BD: Ol' ; Danny Ashley BD: Danny Ashley (ph) BD: Yes BD: Johnny Carmichael (ph) BD: Yes, his dad was a highway patrol man here, the Carmichael' ; s BD: And Morris Hancock (ph) GS: Yes BD: Yes. Yeah, I still keep up with them on Facebook GS: He came into the museum over tabbouleh fest BD: Oh really? GS: He did, I got to see him, I hadn' ; t seen him in years. BD: Well that' ; s great! We haven' ; t either. GS: Okay so, you mentioned Danny, your son. How many children did you have? BD: We have two children ; Danny was nine months old when we moved up here GS: Okay BD: And then Dana is our daughter and she was born in February of 64' ; out here in Bristow medical center-- or the hospital then! The Baptists had it then GS: Yes BD: And Danny was born at Saint Marys' ; hospital in McAlester GS: Okay BD: So, our families were not too happy when we moved up here, but-- GS: I' ; m sure BD: You' ; ve gotta do what you' ; ve gotta do GS: That' ; s right, jobs take you where they take you BD: Right GS: Okay so do you have any anecdotes about those years, or special memories of events that happened during that time? BD: Well at one point in time I was a Welcome Wagon hostess for Bristow GS: Very good! BD: And the business professional women, we had a big committee of that-- or group of that GS: Yes BD: And they got Jane Ann Jurough (ph), the reigning at that point in time, to come down. GS: Yes BD: And they-- they had decorated the force field house with the big swing and all of that, and as the welcome wagon hostess, I got to go out to the [Indecipherable] house west of town GS: Yes BD: And give her gifts from the local merchants GS: Oh how wonderful! BD: So that was-- and I understand she' ; s still a TV announcer in Oklahoma City GS: Uh-huh, I' ; ve seen her a time or two BD: That was a, something. And then Ally Reynolds (ph) one of the baseball-- BD: Yeah one of the baseball field was dedicated out here, which now football--high school football has taken it over GS: Okay BD: And I had a New York Yankees baseball that my Anna gave me, and I took it up to him and had him resign under his name GS: Aww how wonderful! Do you still have that? BD: No GS: Aw BD: I gave it to my son and he sold it on Ebay-- BD: Ebay or something GS: Aww, that' ; s a shame. BD: But he does have a baseball signed from-- when we had the t-shirt shop, it was in the summer time in the Fort Cob boys. There was a little team from Fort Cob baseball, and they' ; d come in the store and they ordered t-shirts that had certain lettering on them, well our daughter Dana could do the lettering real good, she and Bill did that, and they were not allowed to swim on--and they were staying at Thurman' ; s hotel up on North main, and every time they' ; d win a game, they' ; d bring those little shirts in and I' ; d wash them for them and they' ; d have new lettering put on [Indecipherable]. And they got into the finals, and they would just lay around in the store because it was air conditioned, they didn' ; t bother anything or anybody, they' ; d do little errands and they were the nicest young men. And their coaches were fantastic, and they got in the championship game over in Mannford, and they won. GS: Oh wonderful BD: And the first people they came to show the trophy was Bill and I GS: Aww BD: So that really-- GS: Spoke a lot to them BD: Yes, so Dana-- I brought all their shirts home, washed them on Saturday night so they could have them on Sunday to be able to go back to Fort Cob, but we heard from one of the coaches' ; wife for quite a few years, and they offered to come get us for their picnic in a private plane, but we didn' ; t go. GS: That would have been a fun experience BD: Oh--maybe! Maybe so BD: I still have their baseball bat there BD: Yeah, they signed us a baseball GS: Aww BD: And I have the baseball from my team too from 1966 GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful, 1966 BD: Yeah we' ; re a collector of ' ; things' ; , I mean just-- BD: Well I had-- she had a birthday party for me, and they all came to the house and that' ; s when they signed the baseball GS: Awww that' ; s perfect! That' ; s just the perfect present BD: Our house was the party house and the whatever house that the kids wanted to come to, because was it the bachelors that? BD: Yeah BD: They used to come practice in our living room, the band BD: Oh boy GS: That takes some patience to put up with that now BD: Yes, yes. Yeah that--but they did-- GS: Who was in that band? Was that Steve Hollands band? BD: No, that was before Steve I think BD: Yeah it was BD: Or maybe it was in between-- I don' ; t remember, there was Danny Hanks (ph), gosh we went all through that just recently, who was in what band. And then they would have teen town on Friday nights, was it? BD: Yeah BD: At the Presbyterian basement. GS: Oh in the Presbyterian basement! I never went to it there BD: I--yes it was because we lived on West fifth street, the house has been torn down now GS: That was probably before I lived here BD: Yes, yes GS: When I went to Teen town, it was on east ninth I believe BD: No that was before the Presbyterians sponsored it GS: Was after it? Presbyterian was before or after the east ninth teen town? BD: Yes, yes. It was before. GS: Before BD: Yup GS: Okay, and then it moved from the east ninth location to seventh street and it didn' ; t last very long on east seventh. About where that church is, the Cornerstone church BD: Oh okay GS: My memory' ; s a little fuzzy but about there BD: I don' ; t remember--I mean GS: When I was, oh maybe a sophomore in high school BD: Oh okay GS: So around 71' ; maybe, I moved here BD: Okay GS: Okay so looking back at the decades you' ; ve been here ; what decade do you think was the best for Bristow? BD: 60' ; s GS: The 60' ; s? BD: Definitely the 60' ; s GS: What do you think made it the best? BD: The people GS: The people? BD: They were together. I mean they worked together, business was good, schools have always been great, he served on the school board for-- BD: Nine years BD: Nine years, and then I worked for Edison for 27 years, and how long did you work at-- BD: Seventeen years BD: Seventeen years, so. It' ; s been great, really. We have no--well people were motivated in the 60' ; s, you know? The families in the 70' ; s were alright. We moved in our present home where we are now in 1976 in June. In September of that year, school had started and our son comes home and says " ; I volunteered the carport to build our float" ; (Laughter) BD: The big nails are still out in the carport framing, and they were out here-- I mean BD: I came home from work, and it was dark, and I turned the corner and came in the driveway and I had kids on the roof GS: Oh my goodness BD: They were everywhere BD: Well this was all woods then, so we were the second home to build out here. This was all a wooded area GS: Oh my goodness, and now look at all the houses around you. BD: Yes, this 40 acres was bought by Mr. Jones and Mr. Leflar from a little Indian-- GS: Robert Jones (ph) and David Leflar (ph)? BD: No GS: The lawyers? No? BD: David Leflar and-- BD: Well Leflar was the--he had the Jones foundation BD: Yes GS: Okay, those Jones BD: And they kept telling me--when we were building this was not in the city limits and I said " ; Yes it is" ; " ; No it isn' ; t" ; so I went to city hall one day when Johnny Darnell (ph) was still with us in the city clerk, got my coke and peanuts, and I went through all the records that Johnny would let me go through GS: Uh-huh BD: And I found a school board minutes one time and there' ; d been a [Indecipherable] on there cus' ; Mr. Leflar was also the school attorney GS: Oh okay BD: So he had added that on that this was--this 40 acres was in the city limits GS: There you go, good for you! BD: So I-- we, well they weren' ; t gonna give us any city utilities or anything GS: Oh yeah BD: We still have our own water well, we don' ; t have city water GS: Really? BD: But that' ; s okay, we don' ; t have a water bill GS: Yeah, exactly yeah BD: And it' ; s good water too GS: That' ; s good, that' ; s very good BD: So we did-- this was all red clay when we moved here GS: Lots of red clay in Bristow BD: Yes, yes. And the Matthews home on the hill was the first home built out here because Dowell (ph) and Leflar owned this GS: Okay BD: Dowell Matthews and David Leflar. GS: Okay, and did they develop-- did they build all the houses or just they sold the lots? BD: The lots, we bought two lots ' ; cus we lived where Corwins dentist office is in a two story house GS: Oh okay! Uh-huh! BD: And we had the first tree that was ever had Christmas lights outside on it GS: Aww BD: And they tore ' ; em down GS: Aww that hurt, didn' ; t it? BD: Yes, yes it did. Especially when you found out it was someone in your Sunday school class GS: Aww (Laughter) BD: But it--then when the grocery store burned, Mr. Wells, who was the owner of the grocery store, started buying lots. Bill and I had said to ourselves " ; When we get to x amount of dollars, we' ; ll sell" ; GS: There you go, uh-huh. BD: He did! GS: Wow! Very wonderful BD: So we used that money to build this home GS: Very good! BD: So, he was-- there was a lot of fun times over there on 7th street too. I mean, the folks over there were really good too-- GS: Good neighbors BD: Yes, yes. The Methodist church was right across the street GS: Yes BD: And, ohh what was her name? Alexander-- Myrtle GS: Myrtle Alexander (ph) BD: Yes. I would crank up the stereo if I was cleaning a house and open the door and she' ; d go sweeping down the sidewalk to tell them about [Indecipherable] BD: Dancing GS: How wonderful BD: She was-- she was a keeper for sure. GS: I' ; ve heard many good things about her BD: Then we had--there was a little--did Buddy just have one leg? The little black guy who had the shoe shine? BD: Hm, yeah BD: There was a little black guy' ; s first name was Buddy. I have heard his last name ; someone has told me but I' ; ve forgotten. He had a little shoe shine place in the alcove of where-- BD: Where Penny' ; s (ph) was BD: Yes, where-- GS: Okay, yes BD: There' ; s a little alcove in there and Buddy had a shoe shine stop GS: Oh how wonderful! BD: And he would talk by our house and one day he just stopped and he--we just had the best conversation because he told us, told me who had built lived in that house. It was a doctor Copiague. Now I don' ; t know which Copiague it was, but he told me that he took care of his horses, little paint horses, their little team. And when Doc Copiague (ph) would go out at night, Buddy said I would go, and he said that this porch right here on this house ; when it got hot, the girls would sleep out on this, and I said " ; Really Buddy?" ; and he said " ; Yeah" ; . And he said " ; On all the sides on this side of town, you see the little houses on the ally? Well that' ; s where the house keepers stayed" ; or whatever. And he said " ; We just had a lot of fun. Doctor Copiague was so nice" ; GS: Aw BD: I just thought ' ; Wowie' ; , ya know. And he said this house had a big wrought iron fence all the way around it, because we dug and found--we didn' ; t know what was going on, but it was--We moved from a five room house to a nine room house GS: Oh my goodness, that' ; s wonderful BD: And the nine room house people moved into our five room house (Laughter) BD: That was a busy, busy night GS: Downsizing and upsizing BD: Yes, yes. But we' ; ve-- this is home GS: Yes BD: You know ; we weren' ; t raised here. Bill was raised is Hartshorne, and I was raised in Ashland, which is a farming community. GS: What--where is that in Oklahoma? BD: That' ; s south west of McAlester BD: Yeah GS: Oh okay BD: My dad was called to the naval base, it used to be a navy base, it' ; s an army base now. GS: Yes DD: Now I' ; ve still got a ashtray and stuff from that navy base. And dad worked for the rock Island, he went to work from-- he was manager southern ice in Haileyville, and then we went to work for Rock Island Railroad and hated it, then when the war broke out, my dad had a fantastic memory for numbers. And they needed somebody to dispatch the railroad cars, so basically he was drafted. I mean he was-- had too many dependents to be drafted. But it was like ' ; give up your job-- ' ; GS: I' ; m just gonna check and make sure we' ; re going great, yes we are. BD: And worked at the navy base GS: Oh, uh-huh BD: So dad worked out there for twenty something years before he retired GS: Oh BD: So, and then we moved on--McAlester was here, Navy base was here, Ashland was here, Hartshorne was on the other side-- east of McAlester, we were Ashland was west. We were 45 miles apart when we were dating, so big drive. (Laughter) You' ; d drive that way-- BD: I put a lot of miles on my car GS: I bet you did Bill BD: And how many months, we dated? BD: Six months GS: Ahh BD: Our first date was April the 15th, 1959 income tax day GS: Oh my goodness, yes. BD: And we got married October the 4th GS: Oh, well that' ; s a pretty speedy courtship there BD: Yeah. Be 62 years this October GS: Well congratulations BD: I guess BD: Yeah GS: Yeah. Okay so you had a lot of the youth in your home BD: Yes GS: What else did you do for entertainment Bill? BD: Well we went dancing a lot GS: Oh where did you go dancing? BD: Anywhere there was a dance BD: Anywhere--When we first got married, we' ; d go to a dance every week GS: Were there dances here in Bristow? BD: No BD: No, that was before we moved here, there was Italian place in McAlester that would have us come at--it wasn' ; t Pete' ; s place, it was [Indecipherable] GS There was a large settlement I think the Italians in that area BD: Right [Indecipherable] And we go--they' ; d ask us to come dance Tuesday night to get people to come out on the dance floor and dance, then they' ; d give us our meal free GS: Oh how wonderful! Well that was pretty good for a newlywed couple BD: Yeah that helped a lot, that helped a lot. GS: I think Ted would' ; ve learned a dance BD: Danny and Dana both danced. We had-- we went to Sapulpa and Danny and Cara Jean Thompson (ph) went to Stroud and a contest, like Saturday Night Fever or whatever, they were very good, they could-- GS: And was it 50' ; s type dancing or ballroom dancing? BD: Bill and I, both GS: Both BD: Uh-huh, yeah. He was very good dancer BD: Jitterbug GS: And you could Jitterbug? BD: Oh yeah GS: Oh I wish I could see you Jitterbug BD: I wish I still could (Laughter) GS: I understand that BD: You could if you wanted to, you could if you wanted to. But we-- GS: So did you go to Tulsa to dances from Bristow? BD: No, they used to have quite a few dances. I mean, and up on top of the Roland Hotel is a big ballroom GS: Oh okay BD: And on top of JC Penny was, is a ballroom GS: Yes BD: But the J.C.' ; s used to have our-- some of our new year' ; s parties up there. When Big George Joseph (ph) and all of those were-- GS: Yes BD: Big George had a pig onetime that had been roasted, and that was our centerpiece and [Indecipherable] so, yeah. GS: Was it staring back at ya? BD: Yes BD: Yeah, it had an apple in its mouth BD: Cherries for the eyes BD: I didn' ; t eat too much GS: I understand that BD: But that--there' ; s a very nice dance floor up there. And on top of the Penny' ; s building was also-- BD: Well they used to have dances out at the country club. GS: Okay, were you members of the country club? BD: For a while, yeah GS: Uh-huh, any other organizations, like the Elks or anything? BD: No I belonged to the Lions for a while GS: The Lions club, okay. BD: Did you belong to the Rotary or was it Travis? BD: No, the Lions club. I didn' ; t belong to the Rotary BD: Okay GS: Okay so Beth tell me about your time at Edison Elementary BD: Well, when we moved out here in 1976, and we got all settled and everything, I didn' ; t have anything to do. Both of the children were in school, he was at work, and so I went to Doctor Carmichael and I said " ; I' ; m ready to go to work. Is there anything available" ; you know? Well there was two or three jobs available, and I said " ; put me where you want me" ; and he put me as kindergarten aid. So for two or three years, I had my own room, where home alone is now, and I had every kindergartener every day. GS: Wow BD: They would come to my room, ' ; cus we only had half day kindergarten then GS: Yes BD: And so one room--one half of the room was for morning kindergarten, the decorations and stuff, and the other room was--half was afternoon. And that went on and I mean the decorations were what they did. I mean, we had a-- Bill drew a great big tree and we put it and we decorated it for every holiday, they did paperwork. Plus, then I as given the attendance books for Edison Elementary to keep on top of that GS: Okay BD: So it was running all the papers for the two teachers at that time, and myself, plus taking the attendance for Edison. And when Christmas came, it was Brent, Scott, Lomenick, all that group. I had made little Christmas ornaments for every one of them. And one of the mothers told me not long ago they she still have it GS: Aw that' ; s so sweet BD: So I' ; m going ' ; Okay' ; but it was out of clothespins and glue and paint, and then we moved down to-- what building is it did they used? Now it was where that third grade building, I don' ; t know what they use that building for, it' ; s not the administration building, But there was Joann Free (ph) and Betty Lindsay (ph) and I was will their aid in the room, I was there all the time. So I went from one to the other, but I loved those little ones. It was-- I can still remember ' ; Sounds like Gurple, but it' ; s Purple' ; ya know. But teaching them their colors and kindergarteners are so much more advanced for the time they-- I mean we' ; ve got a great granddaughter that' ; ll go in kindergarten this next year and she' ; s gonna be bored at first. GS: Aw, pretty sharp BD: She' ; s very sharp GS: She already reading? BD: Yes, yes. BD: Yeah her mother' ; s a teacher so that helps GS: Yes, it does. BD: Yes, they' ; re the ones who were here this past weekend to visit us GS: Aw that' ; s wonderful BD: So we had a sleep over. They slept in here and it was-- it was great but I loved my time at Edison because I worked in the office, or back in the office for I don' ; t know how many years, and then Mrs. Vise, Judy Vise (ph) was the principal and she said " ; Would you like to move to the media?" ; Because the lady out there was gonna be leaving, last name was Neil, I can' ; t think of her first name right now. Olivia. And I said " ; I would love to" ; I mean, and that' ; s, the library was my thing GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful BD: I love to read, I-- GS: So how long were you at Edison? BD: 27 years GS: So you retired from Edison BD: Right, right. GS: Very good, and what year was that? BD: I don' ; t know, ' ; cus I still substitute at the high school GS: I knew that you did. Do you still substitute today? BD: I didn' ; t this last year because of the COVID, but hopefully and the Good Lord willing, the creek don' ; t rise, and my health holds up, I' ; ll go back this next year. GS: Well bless you and more power to you. BD: I love-- Why the high school? I don' ; t know. But I love history, we' ; re lacking in that. I don' ; t know music that well, but I love to substitute for Mr. Sanford in the Choir. And fact is a couple years ago, I taught a young man how to dance for the prom. He didn' ; t know how to dance, and I said " ; if you step on my toe one time we' ; re gonna quit" ; because he was a big young man. But I still love the kids. GS: Aw that' ; s wonderful, it' ; s good for you, good for you. What year did you retire Bill? BD: 2001 GS: And you retired from what business BD: From--I was maintenance supervisor at the school GS: At the school. So when did you go to work for the school? After Ben Franklin burned? BD: Yeah, I was in my 40' ; s and when the store burned, I was, you know, I didn' ; t. And I tried reopening a store in the location where homestead is GS: Okay, uh-huh BD: And that didn' ; t last. Walmart was still-- when I opened the store, Walmart sent clerks into the store with notepads writing down everything I' ; d put in that store GS: Aw BD: And then they' ; d go back and put it in Walmart at a lower price, so. GS: Aw that makes me sad BD: Then I went to Doctor Carmichael and asked him if there' ; s anything available at the school, and he said " ; give me a few days and I' ; ll get back to you" ; . So he came back and said " ; I want you to be the night supervisor for house cleaning" ; , so I did that for a year, and then Rex Kearly (ph) retired and he hired me to be the maintenance director GS: Okay BD: Then that' ; s where I stayed, till I retired GS: In 2001, very good. Have you been active in anything since you retied? Hobbies or organizations? BD: Oh I' ; m [Indecipherable] but I still worked after I returned, I mowed for the school for what, 14 years BD: Yes GS: Very good, it' ; s good to stay active BD: Oh yeah, I miss that now but I can' ; t be very active GS: Oh I know, I understand that totally BD: He' ; s still a good guy, he' ; s a keeper GS: Looking back at the decades again, who were some of the more influential people that you think have come through Bristow that have helped Bristow? BD: Well number one Doctor Warren Carmichael (ph) GS: Okay, he was the Superintendent for the schools BD: When I was on the school board they hired him, and when he came to Bristow, Bristow' ; s schools were stagnant. We had old building, and that' ; s what we jumped on first. We started building buildings, and it just went in a different way after he came here. He got retirement for the maintenance people and all of-- BD: Support people BD: Support people GS: Yeah, yeah BD: Which they appreciate it GS: Which before they didn' ; t have? BD: No BD: He had a chain of command, you didn' ; t just-- GS: No you didn' ; t. BD: No, it was--it was entirely different and everybody-- a lot of people complained about the yearly picnic we had, but--and every once in a while when insurance stuff would come up, we' ; d all meet in the old junior high auditorium. He kept us updated on our insurance, all the school, the cafeteria would fix all the chicken before the picnic. But every school was to bring certain dishes and we' ; d meet out at the high school for that. So Dr. Carmichael had a great deal to do, and coming on down the line honey, who would you say? BD: Influential people? BD: Yeah GS: In Bristow yeah, that have helped it quite a bit. BD: Hm, well we had a few merchants that were active and-- GS: Go getters BD: Yes, they started fixing up their storefronts, which helped the main street GD: Definitely, definitely did BD: That helps a great deal to have--even if the store is basically empty, if the windows are decorated or something it has great appeal to folks. Well so many, though, really have done a lot that have not been recognized, you know. GS: Very true BD: Behind the scenes that, you know, I commend Tara Montgomery (ph) for all that she' ; s done for the swimming, you know GS: Yes, definitely BD: And-- GS: We know Bob Chatterton (ph) with the city lake, that' ; s a big asset to Bristow BD: Oh Bob Chatterton in his class of 40' ; did wonders. I did the first 1940 thing for Bob Chatterton GS: Oh really BD: Yes, I did, when I went to the school he came in and we visited and then Christmas that year I got this humongous, now we' ; re talking big, poinsettia type tree. And it was from Bob Chatterton and the 1940 class GS: Aww BD: And he didn' ; t forget, I mean that was--because I had typed up all of those for-- all the students that had been had submitted things for scholarships. Bob Chatterton did a lot for the depot, he did a lot for the students, he did a lot for our town. BD: He did football field to BD: Yes GD: Oh he did? I didn' ; t know that BD: Yeah he played for the track BD: Track GS: I didn' ; t even realize that BD: First--the first asphalt track GS: That' ; s a nice track BD: Yes, it is, yes it is. And Gosh you caught us off guard on that because GS: Sorry about that BD: We' ; ve admired and been friends with a lot of people. GS: You' ; ve probably known a lot of business men, a lot of pastors BD: Oh yes, the Pastor when we moved here was Dick List GS: Okay BD: And his wife, and we visited every church that Dick and Joann-- they were very, very close friends out ours. Every church, and they even served in England too, they went overseas, and there was one church that we didn' ; t visit Dick and Joann. We went to Louisiana, or [Indecipherable] Mississippi where their church was and visited some of the Antebellum homes there while we were. I mean, when they came to Bristow, this was their home. They were here. And he calls sometimes, he was in the military, he was a chaplain. GS: Oh! How wonderful BD: And he did that when the Vietnam war, he went in. And I went in and said " ; Dick why did you do that?" ; and he said " ; How can I minister to the families of these young men if I don' ; t know what' ; s going on?" ; and that' ; s just the kind of pastor that he was. I mean, he was-- GS: That brings up a good, different direction to go in. Did any either of you or your children serve in the service? BD: I did GS: What branch? BD: Army GS: Army? BD: 11 years GS: Were you-- was it during peace time or did you go overseas? BD: I didn' ; t go overseas because I belonged to a division that was a training division GS: Okay BD: We trained troops to go over there GS: And what years were you with the Army? BD: Oh, I enlisted when I was in high school, 1956 until 64' ; and I resigned, but the army kept me on 24-hour standby for three years GS: So you were still doing army when you came here and started working for Nationwide, right? BD: Yeah GS: Well that kept you busy, didn' ; t it? BD: Yeah BD: They didn' ; t have a slot for him here at the reserve, so he had to drive to Okmulgee GS: Oh BD: Well Bristow had a 45th division here GS: Okay BD: And they were artillery, and all my background was infantry GS: Ah BD: So I had to drive to Okmulgee GS: Makes sense BD: But, he is eligible for VA benefits because the time that he served was during what they call the Cold War BD: Well they' ; ve got me written down for Korea service, but I never went to Korea GS: Praise the Lord BD: Yeah BD: But I was in that time frame GS: You were training men to go over there BD: Yes, and Vietnam they got me down for that, but I never went to Vietnam. I probably should have, but I didn' ; t. GS: Yeah, well it' ; s not for lack of you, they thought you did better work here probably BD: Yeah, I' ; ve always felt a little guilty about not doing it because I was trained for it GS: Right, well you go where they put you BD: Yeah and I had two little kids and a wife, so that made a difference GS: Yes, it does. It definitely does. I usually ask people looking back over your lifetime, what do you consider the biggest, maybe not invention, but the invention or situation that changed things the most, or made the most impact on society or your life? BD: Wow GS: Yeah that' ; s a biggie BD: When you live as long as we have, there' ; s been a lot GS: Yes, there has BD: Technology GS: Definitely. I think technology is a lot like Pandora' ; s box BD: Yes, yes BD: I think we' ; ve had too much. I' ; m like the guy in the Tulsa paper today that complained about all the computers failing and everything, and he called 911, well their computer was down, he called the police and their computer was down, so he called the chief of police and asked him ' ; have they outdated pencil and paper?' ; . But I think we' ; ve got too much communicating. When I was a kid growing up in Elementary school, if I got in trouble we didn' ; t have a home phone, but if I got in trouble before I came home that evening, my mother already knew about it. BD: True, so trueGS: Okay we' ; ve been-- we' ; re at the tail end thank goodness of this COVID pandemic. How has that changed life for you Beth? BD: Well, it kept me out of the school this past year, for one thing. But we both have had out two shots and we were very cautious when we went out, we didn' ; t go out that much, the grocery stores and-- GS: Yeah I-- no I' ; s just checking my recorder BD: Oh, okay. Grocery store, doctor, that' ; s about the only time-- we didn' ; t attend any basketball games or any social stuff, but we wore our masks and it' ; s been kind of rough in some ways, but we' ; ve done a lot of visiting with our neighbors out on the porch that way we were-- GS: Social distancing BD: Right GS: And you have the outside air and, yeah, yeah. BD: So we were--fact is out Christmas was with the ones that were here this past weekend. We had it on our deck, they came down the day after Christmas ; we had out masks on, we were outside, the little ones played in the backyard and in the garden, and so it was a beautiful day. God took care of us and neither of us had any signs of COVID and we got our shots over at Vo-Tech so we were Ok. GS: Wonderful, that' ; s wonderful. How about you Bill, can you add anything to that? BD: No, I' ; ve kinda liked staying at home so it worked out good for me (Laughter) BD: Very true GS: Good deal. Okay is there anything you can thing of story wise, personal information, town wise that we haven' ; t thought to mention that you would say " ; Oh that would be good to tell her about" ; ? BD: Oh we' ; ll think of it after you leave Georgia GS: Of course, of course. Well I sure do appreciate you giving us your time for this oral history interview and it' ; ll be remembered for a long time BD: Well we' ; ve enjoyed it I think, right Bill? BD: Yeah GS: Oh well thank you so much, I' ; ve enjoyed it tremendously. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-18_Dalpoas_Bill_and_Beth.xml OHP-2021-18_Dalpoas_Bill_and_Beth.xml
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Bill and Beth Dalpoas
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In this 2021 interview, Bill and Beth Dalpoas share about life in Bristow as young adults. Together, they talk about the organizations they were active in, different businesses, and entertainment during that time.
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OHP-2021-18
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2021-06-03
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Regan Siler
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Bill Gurley
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6.0 August 7, 2025 OHP-0075 Bill Gurley OHP-0075 00:43:20 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Bill Gurley Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0075 Gurley, Bill.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 7, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Bill Gurley at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and what it's been like living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 00:25
 ; William Ray Gurley.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:26
 ; Okay, but you go by Bill. 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 00:28
 ; Go by Bill.
 ; William Ray Gurley was born on October 25, 1939. He was born in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow Library Annex ; Bristow (Okla.) ; William Ray Gurley ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) Birth 0 42 Parents Regan Siler 00:42
 ; Okay, and let's just start off by talking about your family. Can you tell me your parents full names?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 00:51
 ; My mother was Neva Matilda [Carmen] Gurley. My dad was Arthur Eulus Gurley.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:57
 ; Okay, and I have your dad's birthday as 9/22/1897?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 01:02
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:03
 ; Okay, I have your mother as March 1, 1902?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 01:07
 ; Yes.
 ; Bill's mother was Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley. His father was Arthur Eulus Gurley. Neva was a math teacher at Bristow Schools for 40 years. Bill's father, Arthur was a rancher. He raised cattle and hay. Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley ; Arthur Eulus Gurley ; Bristow Public School Parents 0 143 Siblings Regan Siler 02:23
 ; Right, right. I understand that. Do you have any siblings?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 02:28
 ; Yes, I had a sister, Barbara Jean, who was, she was born in '42, but she died, and when she was about 40-some years old.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:44
 ; Okay, um, and so just the one sister?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 02:48
 ; Yes. And then I have a half-sister and three half-brothers.
 ; Bill had one sister, Barbara Jean. Barbara passed away when she was in her 40s. Bill also has a half-sister and three half-brothers. Barbara Jean Gurley Siblings 0 182 Moving to Bristow Regan Siler 03:02
 ; Okay. And so did you grow up in Bristow? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 03:05
 ; Yes, I did.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 03:06
 ; Okay. So, you were born here?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 03:06
 ; No. I was born in Oklahoma City.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 03:07
 ; Well, Oklahoma City.
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 03:07
 ; But then we moved here when I was six-years-old.
 ; Bill and his family moved to Bristow when he was six years old. Bill's mother owned land in Bristow. Also, Bill's grandparents lived in Bristow. Bristow (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley ; Grandparents Bristow (Okla.) 0 221 Childhood Regan Siler 03:41
 ; Okay, Okay, gotcha, um, well, let's talk a little bit about your childhood. We'll we'll touch on that a little bit and ask some some kind of fun questions to see if you remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games as you were growing up?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 04:02
 ; No, mostly I, out in the country, we had horses and cattle, dogs and, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 04:08
 ; And you probably had to work a lot on your farm, I'm guessing?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 04:11
 ; Oh yes, all the time. We had a dairy, up at four o'clock in the morning and four o'clock in the afternoon.
 ; Bill spent much of his childhood outdoors. He helped with the dairy cows, milking at four o'clock in the morning and four o'clock in the afternoon. They had cattle, horses and dogs on their family farm. Bill helped maintain the farm by fixing fence, cutting trees and cutting hay. He also enjoyed hunting. Bill also took piano lessons. He was involved in band at school. Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley ; Arthur Eulus Gurley ; Band ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Depew (Okla.) Childhood 0 420 School Regan Siler 07:00
 ; Not really, okay. Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I know when we visited on the phone, you said you attended Bristow Public Schools for 12 years. Do you remember having any particularly influential teachers in your life?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 07:17
 ; Bristow, we were very fortunate to have four doctoral degree people teaching, and I think there's Covey [Lola Effie Best Covey]. She taught a lot of Spanish and English. We had Corey [Kate Broad Baldridge Corey], my mother. She didn't have the PhD, but she had, she could have had.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 07:41
 ; Yes.
 ; Bill attended Bristow Public Schools for 12 years. Bill remembers some influential teachers, Kate Corey and also Lola Covey. He rode to school with his mother, who was a teacher. Bill enjoyed school and his favorite subject was math. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Lola Effie Best Covey ; Kate Broad Baldridge Corey ; Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley ; Bristow Band School 0 557 Childhood Home Regan Siler 09:17
 ; Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in, whenever you moved back to Bristow, when you said you were six, and you had this big farm, is that where you lived in your entire 12 years of school? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 09:31
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 09:31
 ; Can you tell us about that house? Was it like a farmhouse or?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 09:34
 ; Yeah, it was pretty, I'll use the word crude to start with. We had outdoor plumbing, both water and sewage. So we had outhouse and a pump on the outside. But when I was about 10 years old, I helped my dad remodel our house, completely remodeled it, and put indoor plumbing and everything. Yeah, that would have been in what, '49.
 ; Bill and his family lived in a farmhouse. Bill said it was pretty crude, with outdoor plumbing. When Bill was ten, he helped his dad completely remodel the house. It had been an old oil field shack until they remodeled, even adding a second story. Bristow (Okla.) ; Arthur Eulus Gurley Home 0 644 Mealtimes Regan Siler 10:44
 ; Right, right, okay. Well, can you remember what meal times were like with your with your family? Did everybody sit down to eat?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 10:53
 ; Yes, mother cooks the meal and we sit down and ate.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:57
 ; Okay and do you remember, maybe, a favorite meal that she cooked whenever you were younger? Did you have a favorite one? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 11:07
 ; Not really. We just ate everything.
 ; Bill said his mother did the cooking. He says they all sat down and ate meals together. Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley Mealtimes 0 669 Community Activities Regan Siler 11:09
 ; Anything that she provided. Okay, well, thinking back to town life and growing up, do you remember any favorite community activities? And when I say that, I mean, like a lot of people talk about Western Heritage Days or county fairs, stuff like that. Can you remember as a young person enjoying any of those activities in Bristow?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 11:36
 ; Well, we, Bristow hosted the Creek County, the Creek County Fair every year, which is out here, that's near the where the pool is now. And that was always a big event. My dad was president of the Fair Board, so he was active. He'd always give me tickets to the from the rides. I'd have plenty of those, share with my friend. We had two movie theaters back then, Walmur and Princess Theaters. That was a big event. Go 10 cents to go a movie on Saturday afternoon. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:11
 ; Yeah, yeah, I've heard about those. I wish we had one now.
 ; Bill recalls the Creek County Fair being a big deal when he was young. He says his father was the president of the fair board. His father always gave Bill tickets to the rides, which Bill would share with his friends. Bill also remembers going to the movies on Saturday afternoons. Bill also enjoyed playing pool at the pool hall and the pinball machine at the drugstore. Creek County Fair ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Walmur movie theater ; Princess Theaters ; Pool Hall ; Drugstore ; Arthur Eulus Gurley Community Activities 0 760 Bristow Businesses Regan Siler 12:40
 ; Okay, um, do you remember any of the, I guess, biggest or most popular businesses around town growing up? Or an yone that sticks out to you? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 12:52
 ; We had, Bristow was a really nice community back in the old days, as far as commercial, we had two men's clothing stores. We had, you know, really good, like Safeway Grocery Store. We had, we had Penneys. We had 5 and 10. We had women's clothing stores. We had
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:14
 ; It was booming back in the day, wasn't it?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 13:16
 ; I mean, we had a lot of good things that have been taken away from us now.
 ; Bill remembers some of the businesses in Bristow when he was young. He says Bristow had two men's clothing stores. It also had a Safeway Grocery Store, 5 and 10 store and JCPenney's. Bill says Bristow had a lot of good things that have been taken away from us now. Bristow (Okla.) ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; JCPenney's ; 5 and 10 store ; Wal-Mart (Firm) ; Turner Turnpike Bristow (Okla.) ; Business 0 823 Teen Life Regan Siler 13:43
 ; Yeah, yeah, exactly. Did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 13:55
 ; Home.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:58
 ; Home?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 13:59
 ; Farm.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:59
 ; Yeah, you were always at the farm, huh? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 14:01
 ; There was plenty to do there.
 ; Bill says he spent most of his time as teenager at home on the farm. He says there was plenty to do. Bill enjoyed horseback riding and fishing in his free time. Farm ; Horseback riding ; Fishing Teenage Life 0 860 Automobiles Regan Siler 14:20
 ; Right, right, okay, um, well, let's see, do you remember, do you happen to remember your family's first car? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 14:29
 ; I don't know whether it was the first one or not. I can remember like a '49 Ford.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:39
 ; Okay, okay. Do you remember your first car?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 14:42
 ; 1955 Ford.
 ; Bill remembers his family having a '49 Ford. He says his first car was a 1955 Ford. He learned how to drive on the farm, starting out on a tractor when he was eight or ten years old. Ford automobile Automobiles 0 901 Entertainment Regan Siler 15:01
 ; Yes, yes. Okay, so did you have or what sort of entertainment did you have growing up? Did you have a TV at some point?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 15:15
 ; I think about 1950 we got a TV for the first time.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:19
 ; Okay, and do you remember any particular programs you enjoyed watching?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 15:24
 ; Not really. I can't think of anybody, any that we really watched. It's kind of wasn't too many to choose from.
 ; Bill believes his family got their first television set around 1950. Bill listened to the popular music at the time, such as Frank Sinatra. Entertainment ; Television ; John F. Kennedy ; Radio ; Frank Sinatra Entertainment 0 993 Medical Care Regan Siler 16:33
 ; Right. Okay, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or did you mainly take care of, did your mom take care of stuff at home? Or how did that work?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 16:46
 ; Probably most of it was at home. I remember cut my hand one time, and, you know, we just looked at it and put a band aid on it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 16:56
 ; Patched it up as best as possible.
 ; Bill says most of the medical care during his childhood was taken care of at home. He remembers cutting his hand and patching it up as best as possible. He also remembers his father cutting a splinter out from under his fingernail. Bill recalls there being a clinic on Eighth Street that he visited to have his tonsils removed. Medical care ; Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley ; Arthur Eulus Gurley ; Bristow (Okla.) Medical care 0 1085 Church Regan Siler 18:05
 ; Okay, okay. Did you attend church growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 18:11
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:12
 ; You did. Okay. Where did you attend?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 18:14
 ; First Christian Church here in Bristow.
 ; Bill attended the First Christian Church in Bristow. He was baptized in the church when he was 12. He rededicated his life to the Lord when he was 34. Church ; First Christian Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Lord Church 0 1141 Holidays Regan Siler 19:01
 ; Well, that's neat. Alright, well, let's talk about holidays in your family. Were holidays a big deal?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 19:11
 ; I guess you'd say somewhat. You know, birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was always a big thing, because have big dinners.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 19:19
 ; Did all the family come to your house? Or did you go somewhere?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 19:22
 ; Pretty much, my mother had four, three sisters, and they'd show up their families. We just had to get togethers most of the time.
 ; Holidays were a big deal in Bill's family. Bill remembers Thanksgiving and always having a big dinner. He recalls receiving a bicycle for Christmas when he was six years old. Bill's mother had several sisters, and they would bring their families for the holidays. Holidays ; Christmas ; Thanksgiving ; Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley Holidays 0 1198 Childhood Dreams Regan Siler 19:58
 ; So, that was a big deal. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 20:07
 ; Yeah, really, I wanted to be a rancher.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 20:09
 ; Really? Okay, and you still do that now, correct? 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 20:13
 ; Well, not now I'm retired. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 20:14
 ; Well, okay.
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 20:15
 ; I sold all the land then.
 ; Bill wanted to be a rancher when he grew up. He went on to fulfill that dream and has now sold the land and retired. Ranch Childhood Dreams 0 1227 College Regan Siler 20:27
 ; So, that was still in your family? Wow! Okay, um, all right, well, let's talk about college. When we visited on the phone, tell me where you went and what degrees you achieved, and tell me a little bit about your college experience.
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 20:27
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 20:50
 ; I went to OU, University of Oklahoma for 1957 to '60, and I got my undergraduate degree in mathematics. Then I went to OSU in 1960 and I got my masters and PhD, finally, in 1964.
 ; Bill attended college at the University of Oklahoma. He attended there from 1957 to 1960 and received his undergraduate degree in mathematics. Bill then attended Oklahoma State University in 1960 and received his masters, and then his PhD in 1964. Bill received his degree in mathematical statistics. College ; University of Oklahoma ; Oklahoma State University College 0 1304 Jobs Regan Siler 21:44
 ; Yeah, you're trying to achieve it. Okay, so for the man that has worn many hats, let's talk about your work life. So, say whenever you got out of college, tell me, like, what was your first major job that you had?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 22:03
 ; Well, I started working 1964 with Sunray DX Oil Company in operations research analyst.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 22:10
 ; And it was Sunray?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 22:12
 ; Sunray DX Oil Company.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 22:14
 ; Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 22:14
 ; They were in Tulsa.
 ; Bill's first major job was in 1964 when he started working at Sunray DX Oil Company as an operations research analyst. A couple years later, a coworker and Bill formed a company called Petroleum Marketing Research Company. Bill later programmed the first computer at the Amercian National Bank, which is now SpiritBank. Sunray DX Oil Co. ; Petroleum Marketing Research Company ; SpiritBank ; American National Bank ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Stroud (Okla.) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Tracy Kelly ; Levan Kelly ; Royce Kelly ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; State Representative Jobs 0 1569 State Representative Bill Gurley 26:09
 ; Oh, I was the first Republican elected in Creek County. Which is it was totally democratic back in those days. Of course, now it's completely turned around the opposite direction.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 26:19
 ; Right, right. So, how would you describe your experience being a representative?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 26:28
 ; Well, it's very, it's a lot more demanding than you think, because people are always calling you, asking you to do this and do that and help them do that. You know, it get a lot of problems solved. But it's also a, it's a good, interesting job to be involved with. You're helping make laws for the whole state.
 ; In 1987, Bill ran for office as a state representative. He was elected and served as the state representative for the next four years. Bill was the first Republican elected in Creek County. He says being a representative is more demanding than you think, with people always calling you. State Representative ; Republican ; Creek County (Okla.) ; Democratic Party State Representative 0 1642 Teaching Bill Gurley 27:22
 ; Now that the computer stuff dried up in about '86. In '87 I ran for office, got in for four years and went back, you know, back to the ranch after that. At '97 then I think it was that first started teaching at Depew. Taught there two years. Then I came over to Bristow in '99 and then I was technology director here for the Bristow Schools for two years. We had about 550 computers that we had to deal with, maintain that fiber optic network. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 27:56
 ; So, in all the hats you've worn, did you have a favorite hat?
 ; In 1997, Bill started teaching in Depew and taught there for two years. He went to Bristow in 1999 and was the technology director at the Bristow Schools for two. He had about 550 computers to deal with and maintain the fiber optic network. Teaching ; Depew Public Schools ; Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Paul Montgomery ; Slick (Okla.) Teaching 0 1733 Activation Outreach Regan Siler 28:53
 ; Well, then you also mentioned to me, when we had visited about Activation Outreach. Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 29:02
 ; Well, we started, Majel Wisotsky. She was, she headed it up, and we started a group called Activation Outreach, just a small church group. We met Methodist Church Annex a couple of years. And she got married, moved to Texas.
 ; With Majel Wisotsky heading it up, a church group called Activation Outreach was started. Bill has been a huge part of this group. They met at the Methodist Church Annex for a couple of years. Their goal is to witness and help people, particularly the elderly and homeless. Majel has since married and relocated to Texas, but the group still meets in homes on Wednesdays. Activation Outreach ; Majel Wisotsky ; Methodist Church ; Texas Activation Outreach 0 1841 Wife, Peggy Ann Gurley Regan Siler 30:41
 ; Not large, okay, okay. Well, let's talk a little bit about your immediate family. Can you tell me your spouse's full name?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 30:52
 ; Peggy Ann Gurley.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 30:54
 ; Okay, and I have her birth date is February 22, 1942.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 30:58
 ; Correct.
 ; Bill and Peggy met in Stroud at the Full Gospel Businessmen Association. Peggy's husband and Bill were both directors. Peggy's husband was a veterinarian in Stroud. He tragically died in a small plane crash, leaving Peggy as a widow with four children. The Lord told Bill that he was going to marry Peggy Robertson. They were married on March 5, 1977, at the First Assembly of God Church in Stroud. They have now been married for 48 years. Peggy Ann Gurley ; Stroud (Okla.) ; Full Gospel Businessman Association ; Veterinarians ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; First Assembly of God Church ; Depew (Okla.) Wife 0 2019 Children and Grandchildren Regan Siler 33:39
 ; Okay. Um, so how many children do you have?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 33:46
 ; Total, we have seven. I had two. Peggy had four, and then she and I had one.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 33:51
 ; Okay, do you want to tell me their names so we can have that on the recording?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 33:56
 ; Well, there's Mark Steven Gurley. There's Ambra Leigh Gurley [Maxon]. Then there's Deborah Ann Gurley. There's Kim Roberta, well, her name's Shepherd now but and then there's Heather Lynn Spencer. There's Kip Robertson Gurley, and then there's Jennifer Kay Alexander. She's our youngest.
 ; Together Bill and Peggy have seven children. Previous to their marriage, Bill had two children and Peggy had four children. Bill and Peggy had one child together. They now have sixteen grandchildren and seventeen great grandchildren. Peggy Ann Gurley ; Mark Steven Gurley ; Ambra Leigh Gurley Maxon ; Deborah Ann Gurley ; Kim Roberta Shepherd ; Heather Lynn Spencer ; Kip Robertson Gurley ; Jennifer Kay Alexander ; Highway 66 Children ; Grandchildren 0 2174 Retirement Regan Siler 36:14
 ; Fun times! I guess that's probably why the heat doesn't bother you, huh? Well, so I know now you said you retired. Have you enjoyed being retired? And do you have any hobbies now that you enjoy?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 36:28
 ; Well, after I retired, I think it was maybe 2009, I got involved with one of my best friends from high school and Frank Groom. We had a Bristow handyman business, so we remodeled out all over town. Had that for several years.
 ; After Bill retired, he started working some with Frank Groom and they started a handyman business. They did a lot of remodeling around Bristow, even at the Bristow Social Services. He even helped with Cornerstone Church, remodeling their building. Retirement ; Frank Groom ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Social Services ; Cornerstone Church Retirement 0 2285 Most Important Invention Regan Siler 38:05
 ; Okay, okay, well, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 38:15
 ; Invention? Probably would be the computer.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:24
 ; I kind of,
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 38:26
 ; You know, on into the, cell phones and tablets and everything we got now, laptop.
 ; Bill believes the most important invention is the computer. Invention ; Computer Invention 0 2313 How the World is Different Regan Siler 38:33
 ; Somehow, I kind of figured you might say, the computer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 38:43
 ; Well, we've really gone, we've lost a lot of the, I'll use the word innocence, that we used to have, which it all goes back to the truth of the matter is, everything has gone anti Bible. If you want to call it that. God's Word, the left, you got the right and left in politics. But the left has taken an anti everything that the Bible believes. they take the opposite, whether it's, you know, sexual situations, don't speak, you know, cussing and all that sort of thing. You got your, the homosexual, all that thing is just the opposite of what God said we should do, and that's how the worst thing it has done is that changed. I don't we're still having wars all over the place. Doesn't seem to be getting any better.
 ; Bill says the world is different than when he was a child, he says we have lost a lot of innocence. He says everything is now the opposite of what the Bible says. Bible ; Politics World 0 2381 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 39:41
 ; As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem and how do you think it could be solved?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 39:50
 ; I don't know what the biggest problem is. Biggest problem is our national debt. That's the biggest problem. I don't think it can be solved. There's so many trillion dollars in debt, that can't ever be solved.
 ; Bill says that the nation's biggest problem is our national debt. He does not feel that it can be solved. Bill also talks about how bad drugs are in this country. Nation Nation 0 2439 Historic Events Regan Siler 40:39
 ; Okay, how have historic events say, like maybe the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, world wars, even covid, affected you, and you can pick one or several, or have any of the natural have any natural disasters affected your life, personally, or historic events? I'm sorry, not natural disasters?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 41:10
 ; Well, one natural disaster was a tornado went across our farm in 1960. Had a lot of rebuilding that took place as a result of that.
 ; Bill recalls a tornado that went across their farm in 1960. He says they had a lot of rebuilding to do as a result. Tornado Tornado 0 2526 Wisdom Regan Siler 42:06
 ; Okay, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us or share any wisdom for future generations?
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 42:18
 ; I can't say anything offhand, really.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:23
 ; I know you have, I know you have some kind of wisdom to share in there. 
 ; 
 ; Bill Gurley 42:29
 ; The biggest wisdom you can give anybody is that get have a relationship with the Lord. Be born again, because everything hinges on that as far as to have a He promises an abundant life, prosperous life, and that that's the solution to it, is to start there. Beyond that, I mean, it's it'll take care of itself once you get started.
 ; Bill finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says the best advice that he could give a person is to have a relationship with the Lord. He says to be born again, because that is the key to an abundant and prosperous life. Wisdom ; Lord Wisdom 0 MP4 Bill Gurley, born October 25, 1939, in Oklahoma City, shared his life story with Regan Siler. Bill's parents, Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley and Arthur Eulus Gurley, were educators. Bill helped his father on their 500-acre farm. He attended Bristow Public Schools, where he was influenced by several doctoral degree teachers. Bill pursued a career in mathematics, earning degrees from the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University. He worked in operations research, founded Petroleum Marketing Research Company, and later became a state representative. Bill and his wife, Peggy, have seven children and many grandchildren. He retired in 2009 and enjoys remodeling projects. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:25.065 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 7, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Bill Gurley at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and what it's been like living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:25.065 --> 00:00:26.984 William Ray Gurley. 00:00:26.984 --> 00:00:28.664 Okay, but you go by Bill. 00:00:28.664 --> 00:00:29.385 Go by Bill. 00:00:29.385 --> 00:00:32.145 Okay, and do I have permission to record this interview? 00:00:32.145 --> 00:00:32.960 Yes, you do. 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.979 Okay. Please tell me when and where you were born. 00:00:36.979 --> 00:00:42.200 Born in Oklahoma City, October the 25th 1939. 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:51.960 Okay, and let's just start off by talking about your family. Can you tell me your parents full names? 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:57.479 My mother was Neva Matilda [Carmen] Gurley. My dad was Arthur Eulus Gurley. 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:02.700 Okay, and I have your dad's birthday as 9/22/1897? 00:01:02.700 --> 00:01:03.119 Yes. 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:07.980 Okay, I have your mother as March 1, 1902? 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:08.700 Yes. 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:12.420 Okay, um, what type of work did your parents do? 00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:20.504 My mother was a math teacher at Bristow for 40 years. And my dad was just a rancher and raised cattle, hay. 00:01:20.504 --> 00:01:22.200 Okay. 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:23.140 Pretty much that. 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:36.519 So, I've heard a lot, I've heard your mom's name a lot. I was never blessed to get to meet her, but it sounds like she worked with a whole lot of kids during her time here. 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:42.819 She died in '97 [9/16/1997] but even after she retired, she tutored a lot of kids. 00:01:42.819 --> 00:02:09.370 My husband being one of them. Yeah, yeah. Well, it sounds like she had a very long and fulfilled career here in Bristow. Did that, and I know you told me when we visited on the phone that you have worn many hats in your time teaching, being one of them, and we'll get to that. But did she inspire you at all to become a teacher, or? 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:18.129 No, that just as a result of, I needed to work and I had the degree. 00:02:18.129 --> 00:02:19.000 Worked out that way. 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.680 When you live, when you live on a farm, you got to have something to help support it. 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:28.560 Right, right. I understand that. Do you have any siblings? 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:44.520 Yes, I had a sister, Barbara Jean, who was, she was born in '42, but she died, and when she was about 40-some years old. 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:48.900 Okay, um, and so just the one sister? 00:02:48.900 --> 00:02:54.284 Yes. And then I have a half-sister and three half-brothers. 00:02:54.284 --> 00:02:59.025 Okay, okay. And do the, did you grow up with family around you or? 00:02:59.025 --> 00:03:02.000 Not them, no. They were off somewhere else. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.520 Okay. And so did you grow up in Bristow? 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.000 Yes, I did. 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:06.479 Okay. So, you were born here? 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:07.039 No. I was born in Oklahoma City. 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.280 Well, Oklahoma City. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:11.939 But then we moved here when I was six-years-old. 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:14.759 Six, okay, okay, gotcha. 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:22.199 That's when she started teaching school for a second time was in that year when we came here. 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:28.439 And so whenever you guys moved here, where was your family rooted, like your extended family? 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:28.860 Here. 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:33.080 Here, okay. Was that the reason why that you guys moved back here? 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:41.180 Well, my mother owned land here, and my grandparents lived here, and they owned land, so they were rooted here. 00:03:41.180 --> 00:04:02.044 Okay, Okay, gotcha, um, well, let's talk a little bit about your childhood. We'll we'll touch on that a little bit and ask some some kind of fun questions to see if you remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games as you were growing up? 00:04:02.044 --> 00:04:08.944 No, mostly I, out in the country, we had horses and cattle, dogs and, you know. 00:04:08.944 --> 00:04:11.580 And you probably had to work a lot on your farm, I'm guessing? 00:04:11.580 --> 00:04:18.139 Oh yes, all the time. We had a dairy, up at four o'clock in the morning and four o'clock in the afternoon. 00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:26.899 Oh, my goodness, okay. Well, that was going to be my next question is, did you have chores that you were expected to do? So, obviously, that's yes. 00:04:26.899 --> 00:04:31.220 That, plus had took piano lessons, so I have to always practice that. 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:35.839 Really? Okay, and so is that something you enjoyed? 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:40.865 Well, to be honest with you, not really. Mother kind of forced me into that. 00:04:40.865 --> 00:04:43.324 Well, so can you still play today? 00:04:43.324 --> 00:04:43.745 Oh, yeah. 00:04:43.745 --> 00:04:44.720 Okay. 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.079 Problem is, I don't have an ear for music, and that's a big difference. 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:49.100 Oh, okay. 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:54.000 Well, I can sight read, but not play by ear. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:54.699 Well, there's just a lot of work maintaining a place where you got, you know, constantly fixing fence, cutting trees, and, you know, had to cut hay and mow. And I remember when I was kid, we had a big silo and had to feed the cattle in the winter with that silage, and they're just constant work. 00:04:54.699 --> 00:05:26.985 Right, right. Okay, well, what were some of the things that you did, like on your farm? Tell us about some of the chores that you had to do, other than your, I'm sure, getting up and milking cows first thing in the morning. 00:05:26.985 --> 00:05:34.485 Right, right. Did you enjoy it? Or did you know any different? 00:05:34.485 --> 00:05:39.660 I guess I enjoyed it, because that's why I wanted to come back to and be a farmer, rancher. 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:51.139 Farmer, rancher today. Okay, um, so did you living in the country, did you have any friends that would come over and play with you or? 00:05:51.139 --> 00:05:58.879 Yeah, we had kids that come out. We'd ride horses together and just do what, fish down in the pond and go swimming down in the creek. 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.160 See to me, that's the good old days, that's, that's. 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:01.699 Very much so. 00:06:01.699 --> 00:06:11.899 Yes, I like that. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:23.524 Other than, you know, dealing with horses, of course, I was in the band, that sort of thing, I liked to hunt. 00:06:23.524 --> 00:06:28.865 Hunt, okay. Did you have, like, how much acreage did you guys own? 00:06:28.865 --> 00:06:32.225 Oh, about 500 acres. 00:06:32.225 --> 00:06:36.785 Oh, my goodness. So, did you farm all of that, or? 00:06:36.785 --> 00:06:37.000 Mmm hmm. 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:37.024 250 at Depew and we had 90 here at Bristow. That much, at least. 00:06:37.024 --> 00:06:45.639 Oh man. 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.899 So, was it just mainly you and your dad that worked it, all of it? 00:06:49.899 --> 00:06:50.319 Oh, yeah. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:59.379 Oh, my goodness, that's a lot of work. Do you remember if you collected anything as a child? 00:06:59.379 --> 00:07:00.000 Not really. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:17.079 Not really, okay. Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I know when we visited on the phone, you said you attended Bristow Public Schools for 12 years. Do you remember having any particularly influential teachers in your life? 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:41.245 Bristow, we were very fortunate to have four doctoral degree people teaching, and I think there's Covey [Lola Effie Best Covey]. She taught a lot of Spanish and English. We had Corey [Kate Broad Baldridge Corey], my mother. She didn't have the PhD, but she had, she could have had. 00:07:41.245 --> 00:07:42.264 Yes. 00:07:42.264 --> 00:07:55.764 Because she was an excellent teacher. And we had a excellent history teacher. Anyway, we just had some excellent teachers, I think, in the 50s. 00:07:55.764 --> 00:08:00.504 So, whenever you said, you said Corey, the last name was Corey. 00:08:00.504 --> 00:08:02.115 Kate Corey. 00:08:02.115 --> 00:08:05.170 And how do you spell, do you remember how to spell her last name? 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:06.420 C O R E Y. 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:07.000 Okay. And then the other teacher? 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.939 Covey. C O V E Y. 00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:12.160 And what was that teacher's first name? Do you remember? 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:13.480 No. 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.160 No? Male or female? 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:15.699 Female. 00:08:15.699 --> 00:08:23.079 Okay, so Ms Covey, okay, um. Do you remember how you got to school? 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:24.339 I was in the car with my mother. 00:08:24.339 --> 00:08:25.240 Okay, so your mom 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:25.420 So you rode, yeah, well, that makes sense. Um, was o was your mom ever your teacher? 00:08:25.420 --> 00:08:30.699 She taught school. 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:31.839 Oh, yes. 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:32.500 Okay. 00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:36.259 All through, you know, high school, when you had to take math. All the math courses. 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:39.899 Oh, okay, so that's probably why you're good at math, huh? 00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:43.019 Yeah, she even talked physics, so I took that, too. 00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:49.500 Okay, okay, um, were you a member of any clubs or organizations? I know you said you were in band. 00:08:49.500 --> 00:09:04.080 Right. Bristow Band. I think we were in a can't even remember the other clubs we were in. There was, there were several that were involved with. 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:10.125 Okay, um, so did you enjoy school overall? 00:09:10.125 --> 00:09:11.024 Yes, I enjoyed it. 00:09:11.024 --> 00:09:14.144 You did, okay. Did you have a favorite subject? 00:09:14.144 --> 00:09:17.600 Math, obviously. That's what I got my degrees in. 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:31.460 Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in, whenever you moved back to Bristow, when you said you were six, and you had this big farm, is that where you lived in your entire 12 years of school? 00:09:31.460 --> 00:09:31.759 Yeah. 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.820 Can you tell us about that house? Was it like a farmhouse or? 00:09:34.820 --> 00:09:39.379 Yeah, it was pretty, I'll use the word crude to start with. We had outdoor plumbing, both water and sewage. So we had outhouse and a pump on the outside. But when I was about 10 years old, I helped my dad remodel our house, completely remodeled it, and put indoor plumbing and everything. Yeah, that would have been in what, '49. 00:09:39.379 --> 00:10:03.044 Yes. 00:10:03.044 --> 00:10:03.840 Okay. 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.679 It was just an old oil field shack, basically. 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.220 Okay. 00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:28.279 And dad remodeled it and turned it into a two story house. 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:29.419 Wow! 00:10:29.419 --> 00:10:30.980 Had several bedrooms. 00:10:30.980 --> 00:10:38.225 So, you just learned as you went. Your dad taught you how to do things as you went, huh, as far as helping. 00:10:38.225 --> 00:10:44.164 We just, you know, learn do everything from carpentry to welding to plumbing and electrical. We did it all. 00:10:44.164 --> 00:10:53.585 Right, right, okay. Well, can you remember what meal times were like with your with your family? Did everybody sit down to eat? 00:10:53.585 --> 00:10:57.049 Yes, mother cooks the meal and we sit down and ate. 00:10:57.049 --> 00:11:07.019 Okay and do you remember, maybe, a favorite meal that she cooked whenever you were younger? Did you have a favorite one? 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.899 Not really. We just ate everything. 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:36.585 Anything that she provided. Okay, well, thinking back to town life and growing up, do you remember any favorite community activities? And when I say that, I mean, like a lot of people talk about Western Heritage Days or county fairs, stuff like that. Can you remember as a young person enjoying any of those activities in Bristow? 00:11:36.585 --> 00:12:11.000 Well, we, Bristow hosted the Creek County, the Creek County Fair every year, which is out here, that's near the where the pool is now. And that was always a big event. My dad was president of the Fair Board, so he was active. He'd always give me tickets to the from the rides. I'd have plenty of those, share with my friend. We had two movie theaters back then, Walmur and Princess Theaters. That was a big event. Go 10 cents to go a movie on Saturday afternoon. 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.000 Yeah, yeah, I've heard about those. I wish we had one now. 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:30.000 Had a pool hall, you go in play pool. Had another, I guess you'd call it, I don't know if you'd call it drugstore or what it was. But anyway, we went, they had a pinball machine. We loved to play pinball. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.259 So, did, was the pool around at that time? Did you enjoy the pool? 00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:34.679 Yeah. 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:39.240 Yeah, did you get to go, did you get to go there much at all? 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:40.440 Yeah, some. 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:52.000 Okay, um, do you remember any of the, I guess, biggest or most popular businesses around town growing up? Or an yone that sticks out to you? 00:12:52.000 --> 00:13:14.679 We had, Bristow was a really nice community back in the old days, as far as commercial, we had two men's clothing stores. We had, you know, really good, like Safeway Grocery Store. We had, we had Penneys. We had 5 and 10. We had women's clothing stores. We had 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.524 It was booming back in the day, wasn't it? 00:13:16.524 --> 00:13:19.000 I mean, we had a lot of good things that have been taken away from us now. 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:27.940 Yeah, well, I kind of feel like, hopefully, we're maybe trending back in the right direction of an upswing in town, hopefully. 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:31.159 We are growing, but, you know, Walmart is taking everything away. 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:32.019 Yeah, that's kind of been the general consensus whenever I have done these interviews, is that when Walmart came and the turnpike came, it really kind of changed the landscape of Bristow and the, you know, the smaller stores closed, and it kind of kind of changed everything. 00:13:32.019 --> 00:13:43.960 Just can't compete. 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:55.284 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? 00:13:55.284 --> 00:13:58.404 Home. 00:13:58.404 --> 00:13:59.245 Home? 00:13:59.245 --> 00:13:59.664 Farm. 00:13:59.664 --> 00:14:01.585 Yeah, you were always at the farm, huh? 00:14:01.585 --> 00:14:03.745 There was plenty to do there. 00:14:03.745 --> 00:14:04.825 Oh, I can imagine. 00:14:04.825 --> 00:14:08.000 Horseback riding, yeah, fishing, you know, just anything you wanted to do. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:15.860 Right. Do you have any particular memories of the train depot? 00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:20.840 Not really other than just seeing trains come through. 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:29.539 Right, right, okay, um, well, let's see, do you remember, do you happen to remember your family's first car? 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:39.184 I don't know whether it was the first one or not. I can remember like a '49 Ford. 00:14:39.184 --> 00:14:42.784 Okay, okay. Do you remember your first car? 00:14:42.784 --> 00:14:45.544 1955 Ford. 00:14:45.544 --> 00:14:48.965 Ford. And who taught you how to drive? 00:14:48.965 --> 00:14:52.024 Well, myself, I guess. 00:14:52.024 --> 00:14:56.345 I'm guessing you were probably driving long before you had a license, since you were on the farm. 00:14:56.345 --> 00:15:01.000 I started driving a tractor, you know, when I was eight or ten years old. From then on, It's just natural. 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:15.340 Yes, yes. Okay, so did you have or what sort of entertainment did you have growing up? Did you have a TV at some point? 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:19.299 I think about 1950 we got a TV for the first time. 00:15:19.299 --> 00:15:24.924 Okay, and do you remember any particular programs you enjoyed watching? 00:15:24.924 --> 00:15:33.000 Not really. I can't think of anybody, any that we really watched. It's kind of wasn't too many to choose from. 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:38.519 Right, and I'm sure you were probably always outside and, you know, it 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.519 Well of an evening, you always did that sort of thing. 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:56.580 Right, right. So, do you remember seeing any pivotal moments on TV, like newsworthy moments? I've had some people tell me that they remember like when JFK was shot or 00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:00.345 Well, I remember that very vividly, but, of course, I was in college, but then. 00:16:00.345 --> 00:16:01.304 Right, right. 00:16:01.304 --> 00:16:02.924 That was momentous event, 00:16:02.924 --> 00:16:06.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but nothing else that you can. 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:13.620 I just remember hearing stuff about World War II on the radio. You didn't have TV, then. 00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:26.340 Did you, was music, I know you said you you played piano, but did you frequently, like listen to music like the radio or and what type of music did you like? 00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:33.105 Just the popular music at that time. You know, you just had good singers like Frank Sinatra and all those good singers, 00:16:33.105 --> 00:16:46.605 Right. Okay, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or did you mainly take care of, did your mom take care of stuff at home? Or how did that work? 00:16:46.605 --> 00:16:56.788 Probably most of it was at home. I remember cut my hand one time, and, you know, we just looked at it and put a band aid on it. 00:16:56.788 --> 00:16:57.000 Patched it up as best as possible. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:20.039 I remember one time I stuck a big splinter under my thumbnail, and it went way deep, and Dad took his pocket knife and literally cut a little square out of the center of it and pulled it out through that little hole. I can't imagine that being done today, or even surviging it. But yeah, that's the way it was back then. Of course, we had the 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:23.900 I think you guys were a lot tougher than what we are these days. 00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:41.000 We had, I just remember we had there on Eighth Street, there, just west of Main Street, there was a clinic, and when I was six years old, had my tonsils out there. But it was just in the clinic that we had it done. Put you under ether anesthetic, and took your tonsils out, ate ice cream for a week. 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.940 So, it wasn't all bad, huh? 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:49.460 But that's the way it was. You didn't, didn't do much in the way of doctors. 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:57.859 Right, right. So, and I forgot to ask you, as far as, like, where your house and your farm was, where was that located at roughly? 00:17:57.859 --> 00:18:05.579 It's a mile south of town, about a quarter of a mile west of 48 on Airport Road. 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:11.759 Okay, okay. Did you attend church growing up? 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:12.299 Yes. 00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.039 You did. Okay. Where did you attend? 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.900 First Christian Church here in Bristow. 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:19.559 Okay. So, where is that one located? 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:20.900 Just right down the street. 00:18:20.900 --> 00:18:33.259 Okay, okay, um, and then I know you told me you were a born again Christian in 1974, so around 21 ish. Were you 21 I guess, maybe? 00:18:33.259 --> 00:18:36.019 What, 25? No, 34. 00:18:36.019 --> 00:18:37.880 Oh, I must have had 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:39.559 '49 to '74. 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:40.880 I had bad math there. 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.200 Thirty-four. 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.000 And I'm saying that in front of a math teacher. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:57.920 I was, I was baptized when I was 12 there in that First Christian Church, but it, the Lord looked after me from that point on, but I did, wouldn't, didn't give him too much time until I was 34 and 00:18:57.920 --> 00:18:59.839 Then rededicated. 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.880 Yeah, I had the real experience with the Lord. 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:11.400 Well, that's neat. Alright, well, let's talk about holidays in your family. Were holidays a big deal? 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:19.319 I guess you'd say somewhat. You know, birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was always a big thing, because have big dinners. 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.420 Did all the family come to your house? Or did you go somewhere? 00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:32.740 Pretty much, my mother had four, three sisters, and they'd show up their families. We just had to get togethers most of the time. 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:41.440 So, is Christmas more about, I guess, maybe being together and having a good meal, versus, say, like presents, or what? 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:46.525 There was always presents associated with Christmas alonw with a meal. 00:19:46.525 --> 00:19:51.744 Can you remember any, any particular thing you got that stuck out in your memory for Christmas? 00:19:51.744 --> 00:19:58.345 Just remember a bicycle when I was six years old. Primarily, other than that, I can't remember too much. 00:19:58.345 --> 00:20:07.380 So, that was a big deal. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:09.960 Yeah, really, I wanted to be a rancher. 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.359 Really? Okay, and you still do that now, correct? 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:14.619 Well, not now I'm retired. 00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:15.819 Well, okay. 00:20:15.819 --> 00:20:17.019 I sold all the land then. 00:20:17.019 --> 00:20:19.539 Oh, okay, okay. 00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:22.599 It's just too much work to maintain all that stuff. 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:27.319 So, did you have your, so did, were you still working your family ranch? 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:27.460 So, that was still in your family? Wow! Okay, um, all right, well, let's talk about college. When we visited on the phone, tell me where you went and what degrees you achieved, and tell me a little bit about your college experience. 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:50.025 Yes. 00:20:50.025 --> 00:21:07.904 I went to OU, University of Oklahoma for 1957 to '60, and I got my undergraduate degree in mathematics. Then I went to OSU in 1960 and I got my masters and PhD, finally, in 1964. 00:21:07.904 --> 00:21:09.704 And you said that was in math statistics? 00:21:09.704 --> 00:21:11.299 That was mathematical statistics. 00:21:11.299 --> 00:21:15.019 Okay, okay. And did you enjoy your college experience? 00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:15.859 Very much. 00:21:15.859 --> 00:21:17.059 Okay. 00:21:17.059 --> 00:21:18.799 What free time you have. 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:36.125 Yeah, well, and I think it's so much different whenever you go to college versus maybe, like high school, you're going for something that you want to do, that you're wanting to pursue. So, it has a little bit of, I feel like it feels a little different whenever you're doing it for yourself and something that you want to do. 00:21:36.125 --> 00:21:41.704 You've got an objective, you got kind of go for it. It's not, it's not a chore so much is just . 00:21:41.704 --> 00:21:43.325 Yes. 00:21:43.325 --> 00:21:44.285 Working to get that job. 00:21:44.285 --> 00:22:03.000 Yeah, you're trying to achieve it. Okay, so for the man that has worn many hats, let's talk about your work life. So, say whenever you got out of college, tell me, like, what was your first major job that you had? 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:10.000 Well, I started working 1964 with Sunray DX Oil Company in operations research analyst. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.460 And it was Sunray? 00:22:12.460 --> 00:22:14.200 Sunray DX Oil Company. 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:14.559 Okay. 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:15.519 They were in Tulsa. 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:16.440 Okay. 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:23.640 And then a couple of years later, another gentleman worked there and I, formed a company called Petroleum Marketing Research Company. 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:24.420 Okay. 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:46.619 We had designed a computer program that would basically tell you how many gallons of gasoline a service station would produce wherever it's located in the city. We were successful to sell it to four major oil companies. Then we got this throughout all the cities that they can do survey work to supply the monster that we created. 00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:56.000 So, would you say that that was that technology was ahead of its time at that time? That sounds like a pretty big accomplishment. 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:10.039 Well, it was just using what you call it, the intuition, or to figure out how to make it work. And we did. 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.539 You did and it was successful. 00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:21.365 And then we programmed it back then we had big 360 IBM computers. My cell phone probably got more capability than that did. 00:23:21.365 --> 00:23:22.444 Right, right. 00:23:22.444 --> 00:23:30.299 Yeah, it had a million bytes of worth of storage, where today we're talking gigabytes and terabytes. 00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:42.680 Right. Yeah, the technology advancements have been crazy in a relatively short period of time. Um, okay, so what was your, where did you go from there? 00:23:42.680 --> 00:25:00.275 Okay, from there that finally dried up. I moved back to Bristow and started ranching for a while, and then after that, opportunity opened up, where I started programming a guy's computer that was over at Stroud, and from that, led into programming computers for all of these Oklahoma. Primarily because I got involved, because people didn't want to leave Tulsa to go out in the small town. So, I didn't mind doing that, and I'm getting decent wage for programming the old Wang computers back then. They were pretty, pretty good computer. In fact, I helped put one of the first computers, it's a American National Bank, which is now Spirit Bank. I programmed it. It was, they had a big mainframe that did their main checking account. But I was dealing with the loan applications. Had a little computer for that, so I programmed that. That was the first one they had in house. Tracy Kelly and Levan Kelly and Royce Kelly were all people that I was involved with. 00:25:00.275 --> 00:25:09.335 I actually grew up in the American National Bank because my mom worked there. So, around, do you remember around what year that would have been? 00:25:09.335 --> 00:25:14.839 Probably '79 through '80, '81, '82, '83. 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:28.460 So, that's that's cool. You saw a need, because, honestly, it kind of seems like that now you can't get people to come out of Tulsa to come to the smaller towns, so that's neat that you saw the need and you you filled it. 00:25:28.460 --> 00:26:04.069 Yeah, and then as that expanded, and I started selling computers as well, and opened up an office in Tulsa and Oklahoma City, where we, I worked with this Wang salesman, too. I sold their computers and programmed them. It was fun, and that area kind of dried up. And about '86 something like that. And then '87 I ran for office, for state representative, and got elected for four years down there. 00:26:04.069 --> 00:26:09.289 And tell me what the you told me on the phone, a little detail about that, that you were the first. 00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:19.849 Oh, I was the first Republican elected in Creek County. Which is it was totally democratic back in those days. Of course, now it's completely turned around the opposite direction. 00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:28.640 Right, right. So, how would you describe your experience being a representative? 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:52.085 Well, it's very, it's a lot more demanding than you think, because people are always calling you, asking you to do this and do that and help them do that. You know, it get a lot of problems solved. But it's also a, it's a good, interesting job to be involved with. You're helping make laws for the whole state. 00:26:52.085 --> 00:27:07.144 I can see where it would be a very rewarding, could be a very rewarding venture. So ,were you doing that while you were working, or were you just doing that? 00:27:07.144 --> 00:27:13.805 When you say working, I've always had the farm and ranch, but I was doing that was in addition to that. 00:27:13.805 --> 00:27:16.789 In addition to, okay, yeah. 00:27:16.789 --> 00:27:21.049 But what I was doing, I wasn't doing any computer work when I was doing that.' 00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:22.220 Right. That's kind of what I meant. 00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:56.005 Now that the computer stuff dried up in about '86. In '87 I ran for office, got in for four years and went back, you know, back to the ranch after that. At '97 then I think it was that first started teaching at Depew. Taught there two years. Then I came over to Bristow in '99 and then I was technology director here for the Bristow Schools for two years. We had about 550 computers that we had to deal with, maintain that fiber optic network. 00:27:56.005 --> 00:28:01.759 So, in all the hats you've worn, did you have a favorite hat? 00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:44.404 They're all enjoyable. Always loved ranching. I guess I loved programming computers too. I mean, that was good. That was a fun job. And I didn't mention it, but one other one in between there about '77 I guess it was. I helped Paul Montgomery over Slick for about a year. We tried, we were trying to build horse buggies for, you know, horse and buggy type situation. And turned out I wasn't that good at the carpentry, so I just let him have the whole thing. And that's when I got into the computer business. 00:28:44.404 --> 00:28:44.959 You went back to computers. 00:28:44.959 --> 00:28:53.450 And Paul went ahead and made some beautiful buggies, working with, I can't think of his first name, but Groom was his last name. Down there at Slick. 00:28:53.450 --> 00:29:02.089 Well, then you also mentioned to me, when we had visited about Activation Outreach. Can you tell me about that? 00:29:02.089 --> 00:29:22.055 Well, we started, Majel Wisotsky. She was, she headed it up, and we started a group called Activation Outreach, just a small church group. We met Methodist Church Annex a couple of years. And she got married, moved to Texas. 00:29:22.055 --> 00:29:30.634 So, what kinds of, what kind, tell me more about that, like, what, what did that program do? 00:29:30.634 --> 00:29:46.900 Well, mainly, we're trying to just help people, you know, that's, that's the main thing, is to get out and witness to people and also help people that need help, elderly. And we needed a lot of homeless work too, witnessing the homeless people. 00:29:46.900 --> 00:29:48.579 So, locally, or anywhere? 00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:48.940 Locally, 00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.200 okay. 00:29:50.200 --> 00:30:30.204 Primarily locally, So it's, you know, we're trying to get people to basically ideas, to bring people to life. Because the truth of the of the gospel is Jesus came that we could be free from all the junk that pollutes our lives. That's what He said. I came to set the captives free. So, we want, see those people are slaves to drugs and a lifestyle that's just drug 'em down. But if you really under, get a hold of the Lord, then he will set you free. And that was our whole objective, is to work in that realm. 00:30:30.204 --> 00:30:34.500 So, is that still going on even though she has moved? 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:41.759 Well, we still meat in our home on Wednesdays, uh, small group of us, but it's not very, not very large at the moment. 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:52.740 Not large, okay, okay. Well, let's talk a little bit about your immediate family. Can you tell me your spouse's full name? 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:54.720 Peggy Ann Gurley. 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:58.904 Okay, and I have her birth date is February 22, 1942. 00:30:58.904 --> 00:30:59.505 Correct. 00:30:59.505 --> 00:31:05.279 Okay. Um, When and where did you meet her? 00:31:05.279 --> 00:32:02.099 In Stroud [Oklahoma]. We were involved with the Full Gospel Businessmen Association there, and we'd meet once a month for a dinner meeting, and a speaker would speak. And her husband was, he and I were both directors for that organization. He was veterinarian over there at Stroud. And then in 1976, he had a terrible plane accident. He had a private plane that they were flying. It crashed behind his house, or at least about a mile north. But anyway, as a result, she was a widow with four children. I knew her through that we were part of that organization. [Indecipherable] the Lord said that you're gonna marry Peggy Robertson. And I thought it was four kids, you gotta be kidding. But it turns out, we've been married for 48 years now. 00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:05.819 Oh, my goodness. Well, congratulations. That's an accomplishment. 00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:07.660 Yes, it was good thing. 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:18.619 Um, so did you just decide you wanted to get married? Or did you have an engagement period? Or, how did that, how did that work out? 00:32:18.619 --> 00:32:43.085 Well, we walked in, we went to a church in Tulsa in separate cars, and we happened to walk in the church together and sit down together, and then when the preacher said, everybody, hold hands. You know, how they do. We held hands, and they just felt electricity going up and down our arms. And that was kind of a confirmation that this is good. 00:32:43.085 --> 00:32:46.144 That was, that was your positive sign. 00:32:46.144 --> 00:32:57.184 We, we, what do you call it, courtship was going over to her house and eating supper with all with all the kids around you. Didn't go out too much. 00:32:57.184 --> 00:33:01.085 Okay, well, so, when and where did you marry? 00:33:01.085 --> 00:33:10.430 We were married at the First Assembly of God in Stroud in 1977. 00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:13.369 So, I have March 5, 1977? 00:33:13.369 --> 00:33:13.730 Yes. 00:33:13.730 --> 00:33:18.109 Okay, did you have a small wedding? Big wedding? 00:33:18.109 --> 00:33:22.670 Yes, I'd say small. Maybe 20 to 25, people, probably. 00:33:22.670 --> 00:33:25.910 And, so, were you living in Bristow and she was living in Stroud at the time? 00:33:25.910 --> 00:33:26.869 I was living in Depew. 00:33:26.869 --> 00:33:28.000 Oh, you were living in Depew? Okay. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.980 Had a farm over there. 00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:33.160 And then, so, then you all ended up. 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:34.480 They all moved to Depew. 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:34.900 Okay, gotcha. 00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:36.519 Kids all went to school at Depew. 00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:37.660 Okay, okay. 00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.460 They all graduated from Depew School. 00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:46.240 Okay. Um, so how many children do you have? 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:51.924 Total, we have seven. I had two. Peggy had four, and then she and I had one. 00:33:51.924 --> 00:33:56.980 Okay, do you want to tell me their names so we can have that on the recording? 00:33:56.980 --> 00:34:25.164 Well, there's Mark Steven Gurley. There's Ambra Leigh Gurley [Maxon]. Then there's Deborah Ann Gurley. There's Kim Roberta, well, her name's Shepherd now but and then there's Heather Lynn Spencer. There's Kip Robertson Gurley, and then there's Jennifer Kay Alexander. She's our youngest. 00:34:25.164 --> 00:34:31.405 Okay, and how many do you, I'm guessing you probably have grandchildren, too? How many grandchildren? 00:34:31.405 --> 00:34:34.644 We've got like 16 grandchildren and 17 great grandchildren? 00:34:34.644 --> 00:34:46.179 Oh, my goodness! So, you have a huge family. Do you remember any particular challenges of being a dad when your kids were young? 00:34:46.179 --> 00:35:34.945 Well, there's always things you gotta deal with, like your daughter getting hit with she's riding her motorcycle and getting hit with a pickup truck out on Highway 66. You talk about a miracle. She pulled out in front of that pickup. He said he was going 54 miles an hour when he hit her. It literally caved in that motorcycle. She had not a scratch on her. She had a bump on her head where she stayed with the motorcycle and it laid over on the on the highway, and it bumped her head, and that was the only, and how she got her leg out away from when that pickup hit the side of that motorcycle. I don't know. 00:35:34.945 --> 00:35:36.385 How old was she? 00:35:36.385 --> 00:35:37.284 Fourteen. 00:35:37.284 --> 00:35:40.164 Oh, my goodness. So that's 00:35:40.164 --> 00:35:42.019 You know, that's just one example. 00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:43.179 Yeah, oh, yeah. 00:35:43.179 --> 00:36:07.164 And then you got the, I remember my son Mark, when it was with him. I was coaching Little League ball, baseball. That was a fun time. Of course, you got just think of kids hauling hay. When we first got married, we bailed 10,000 bales of hay every summer, and she and my wife and I and the four kids hauled all the hay, put it on the barn with maybe one one person's help that we'd hired. 00:36:07.164 --> 00:36:09.684 Oh my goodness! 00:36:09.684 --> 00:36:14.539 Fun times! 00:36:14.539 --> 00:36:28.820 I guess that's probably why the heat doesn't bother you, huh? Well, so I know now you said you retired. Have you enjoyed being retired? And do you have any hobbies now that you enjoy? 00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:48.605 Well, after I retired, I think it was maybe 2009, I got involved with one of my best friends from high school and Frank Groom. We had a Bristow handyman business, so we remodeled out all over town. Had that for several years. 00:36:48.605 --> 00:36:57.579 Frank Groom is actually the one that recommended you on being interviewed, so you can thank him for that. 00:36:57.579 --> 00:37:09.400 Well, he's a good friend, and we enjoy working with him. I mean, we, we are very compatible, and I don't, it's just fun to do that sort of thing is to create things. 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:18.039 Now did you help with the renovation of the Bristow Social Services, the project that he worked on there? 00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:18.699 Yes. 00:37:18.699 --> 00:37:19.119 Okay. 00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:24.204 We did. We were, we were both involved in that. He kind of headed it up, but I helped. 00:37:24.204 --> 00:37:24.625 You helped? 00:37:24.625 --> 00:37:38.905 And then also I got involved with the Cornerstone Church here on Seventh Street. You know, down there by the alley. I have completely remodeled that 10,000 square foot building, two story, and we gutted it. 00:37:38.905 --> 00:37:42.909 It doesn't look like it's 10,000 square feet. It there's a lot of 00:37:42.909 --> 00:37:45.130 5000 down and 5000 up. 00:37:45.130 --> 00:37:45.360 Wow, okay. 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:53.559 I mean, it used to be an old hotel, and all those old rooms. We totally gutted it made it into different rooms. 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:53.659 So, do you still do handyman work? 00:37:53.659 --> 00:37:53.960 No. 00:37:53.960 --> 00:38:05.659 I might help somebody, or, you know, somebody wants a wheelchair ramp or something, Frank and I will put it in, but we don't advertise that we're available. 00:38:05.659 --> 00:38:15.800 Okay, okay, well, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:24.920 Invention? Probably would be the computer. 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:26.199 I kind of, 00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:33.400 You know, on into the, cell phones and tablets and everything we got now, laptop. 00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:43.059 Somehow, I kind of figured you might say, the computer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 00:38:43.059 --> 00:39:41.875 Well, we've really gone, we've lost a lot of the, I'll use the word innocence, that we used to have, which it all goes back to the truth of the matter is, everything has gone anti Bible. If you want to call it that. God's Word, the left, you got the right and left in politics. But the left has taken an anti everything that the Bible believes. they take the opposite, whether it's, you know, sexual situations, don't speak, you know, cussing and all that sort of thing. You got your, the homosexual, all that thing is just the opposite of what God said we should do, and that's how the worst thing it has done is that changed. I don't we're still having wars all over the place. Doesn't seem to be getting any better. 00:39:41.875 --> 00:39:50.599 As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem and how do you think it could be solved? 00:39:50.599 --> 00:40:06.260 I don't know what the biggest problem is. Biggest problem is our national debt. That's the biggest problem. I don't think it can be solved. There's so many trillion dollars in debt, that can't ever be solved. 00:40:06.260 --> 00:40:09.659 Yeah, fiscal responsibility has gone out the window. 00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:39.945 Yeah, that morality. There's two issues that, and another obvious one is the drug problem. I think most of our homeless people are causing drugs, and that whole thing is just, you know, it pulls weight down on society, because you have to take, take care of those people somewhere. I don't know if there is a solution, because nobody seems to want to truly tackle it and stop it coming into the country. 00:40:39.945 --> 00:41:10.409 Okay, how have historic events say, like maybe the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, world wars, even covid, affected you, and you can pick one or several, or have any of the natural have any natural disasters affected your life, personally, or historic events? I'm sorry, not natural disasters? 00:41:10.409 --> 00:41:20.534 Well, one natural disaster was a tornado went across our farm in 1960. Had a lot of rebuilding that took place as a result of that. 00:41:20.534 --> 00:41:22.000 Did it damage your home or just the barns? 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:42.039 Took the barns out and a house that was sitting across the driveway from our house. We had an extra house sitting there, and it disappeared. It took the shingles off of the main house. Had a big, two story brick house. Took the shingles off and a few bricks off of one area, but basically left it standing. 00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:44.500 Did you have a cellar at the time? Where were you when it hit? 00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:53.244 I wasn't in it at the time, but the person living there, he said he was in the cellar, and it said bricks were hitting that cellar door like bullets. 00:41:53.244 --> 00:41:54.324 Oh my goodness. 00:41:54.324 --> 00:42:06.324 But the house survived. And then, of course, we, you know, remodeled it and brought it up to current standards. Because I had to remodel the inside, with the plumbing and all that had to be redone. 00:42:06.324 --> 00:42:18.429 Okay, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us or share any wisdom for future generations? 00:42:18.429 --> 00:42:23.170 I can't say anything offhand, really. 00:42:23.170 --> 00:42:29.880 I know you have, I know you have some kind of wisdom to share in there. 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:56.505 The biggest wisdom you can give anybody is that get have a relationship with the Lord. Be born again, because everything hinges on that as far as to have a He promises an abundant life, prosperous life, and that that's the solution to it, is to start there. Beyond that, I mean, it's it'll take care of itself once you get started. 00:42:56.505 --> 00:43:08.385 I like that answer. That's good wisdom to share. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you would like to add to this interview? 00:43:08.385 --> 00:43:09.960 I can't think of anything at the moment. 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:16.360 Can't think of anything? Okay, well, your interview will become an important part of the oral history archives for the museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it. 00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:17.360 Thank you. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0075_Bill_Gurley.xml OHP-0075_Bill_Gurley.xml
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Title
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Bill Gurley
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Bill Gurley, born October 25, 1939, in Oklahoma City, shared his life story with Regan Siler. Bill's parents, Neva Matilda Carmen Gurley and Arthur Eulus Gurley, were educators. Bill helped his father on their 500-acre farm. He attended Bristow Public Schools, where he was influenced by several doctoral degree teachers. Bill pursued a career in mathematics, earning degrees from the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University. He worked in operations research, founded Petroleum Marketing Research Company, and later became a state representative. Bill and his wife, Peggy, have seven children and many grandchildren. He retired in 2009 and enjoys remodeling projects.
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OHP-0075
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2025/08/07
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video
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b16349eb79e1eae14aa761331395c9cf
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Family Histories
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
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Bob Thompson
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-12_Thompson,_Bob.xml
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5.4 January 4, 2021 OHP-2020-12 Bob Thompson OHP-2020-12 0:00 - 66:56 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bob Thompson Debbie Blansett MP3 1:|47(5)|58(5)|74(3)|88(11)|94(13)|99(5)|118(9)|127(7)|135(16)|155(2)|166(9)|186(3)|198(13)|213(7)|230(10)|234(8)|242(6)|273(11)|286(6)|308(5)|320(1)|329(2)|340(8)|350(5)|362(3)|375(9)|385(1)|394(3)|398(9)|416(10)|424(7)|430(3)|437(1)|440(17)|445(4)|459(16)|468(12)|474(7)|483(14)|493(9)|506(5)|516(3)|527(5)|536(8)|545(9)|551(1)|564(3)|569(11)|576(4)|583(6)|597(4)|611(7)|624(6)|629(7)|636(11)|642(1)|653(8)|676(15)|707(4)|714(11)|722(7)|729(4)|746(8)|753(2)|771(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Bob Thompson.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is January 4th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Bob Thompson in his home in Bristow who’s going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now give me your full name so that we’ll know who all’s here. Bob Thompson ; Bobby Thompson ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Debbie Blansett ; Larry Blansett https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/232073174/bobby-hope-thompson Bob Thompson 63 Hand Dug Water Well DB: Alright, let’s begin. First thing, do you know anything about the hand dug water well that’s in Bristow? BT: I know a little bit about it DB: Can you tell me a little bit about it? BT: It was dug back in the 20’s, my grandparents stayed all night there in 1921, and it was dug there and was a congregational place for all of the farmers would come in and congregate and stay all night and go somewhere. You know, it was a more or less stopping point of people leaving Bristow or creek county and going there which way. cedar street ; Greensburg, Kansas ; Hadie Bishop ; Hand Dug Water Well ; Mickey Moore 683 Childhood DB: So you just had an anniversary BT: I just had an anniversary DB: 61 years BT: I just had an anniversary of living in this town. I have the honor of being the oldest tenant of cedar street DB: That’s still here? BT: Of age, and living here. All of these other houses, these 42 houses has been—somebody has been in it since 1960 DB: Wow BT: There’s no, no other one lived here as long as I have Ball Park Hill ; Depew, Oklahoma ; Gulf Oil Company ; Stedman Hill 892 Education and Work BT: In 1940, or 41’ rather, in June of 41’ we moved to Drumright. They had a lease up there that my father [Indecipherable]. We lived there till 1949, I’m graduated from Drumright in 1949, and I wondered how long it’d take. It used to be the schools—it used to be the school’s technology. That’s OSU University. I stayed there, I graduated from there in 1950, 53’. And I had to go to the army and—no, in 51’ they came back, in 51’ and in 52’ I graduated, got out, and there was when Gloria was real going strong and I got drafted in Korea campaign. I stayed in the army until 1954. I went to Japan, I was sent to Japan as a radar operator and [Indecipherable] division. I got pulled out in Yokohama, Japan and went to call the Hiroshima specialist school DB: A Hiroshima specialist? creek county ; Eastern Electrical Oil Company ; Fort Bliss, Texas ; Hervert Oslers ; Hiroshima ; Hiroshima Specialist School ; Korean Campaign ; OSU University ; Radar M.O.A. ; Yokohama, Japan 1546 Family DB: You’ve done some really spectacular things BT: I’ve had a good life, I lost my wife five years ago, I’ve reconciled that, I have friends that I would not take a hundred dollars for, I would give 50 cents for some, but I wouldn’t take a hundred dollars. DB: How many children did you have? Do you have? BT: We have two children, Michael (ph), which is 62 and Cathy, she’ll be—it’s kind of strange, I want to say this, I tell people that my family grew. My son was born on the twenty—on the 14th of January, my daughter was born on the 19th of January, and my wife and I got married on the 21st of January DB: Oh! Amanda ; Cathy Thompson ; Elizabeth ; Megan ; Michael Dillon ; Michael Thompson 1858 Hospital DB: I remember. Now you told me on the phone that you had some—you had the cornerstone from the clinic, and you had some specimen vials or flasks and you had doctor Sisler’s (ph) day book, how did you come by those things? BT: How did I come by those? In 1960, I was on the city council, I can’t remember what I did, I served two terms on the city council and at that time, we had a hospital where Doctor Sisler— DB: Sisler BT: Sisler and Cowart, C. O. W. A. R. T., they were partners, Sisler and Cowart Clinic, and they both retired. Well that left a building with the facilities for a hospital. Well, Dr. Frank Chapman, coming he would become a doctor at that clinic until our hospital was built out here. That became a vacant building and [Indecipherable] and we needed a parking place, parking, so we decided to put it up for auction and put it up for bid and a fella by the name [Indecipherable] and they were the highest bidder. Barbara ; Cowart ; Cyler Raymond Jones ; Doctor Sisler ; Dr. Frank Chapman ; Jimmy Rae Jones ; Kacey Jones ; Loraine Hocket ; Sisler and Cowart Clinic 2345 Cedar Street BT: Oh, by cedar street, let me back up a little bit, and not back up but just fill about cedar street. When I come to Bristow in 1952, I stayed in the house over there on the corner. The house back to the side, on the west side of it, was a farm house, this was a corn field and a hog pen. My backyard was a hog pen. I’m building my patio, I dug into an old hog jaw. And I know because the smell was still there. All of this was corn field, this twenty acres. This was built—I started building this—this addition [Indecipherable] winding down, and all the G.I.’s wanted [Indecipherable]. Oh gosh there were G.I.— there was G.I.’s all up and down, this was the world protection we had three highway patrolmen on this street at one time. DB: Wow BT: [Indecipherable] lived over there, [Indecipherable] lived here, John (ph) lived next door, and then on the corner it was when I was a little big old boy, he was a highway patrolman, he lived next door. DB: Very well protected area. cedar street ; Louis Templeton ; Mr. Dordie 2753 Geneology BT: We’ll go to the—we traveled a lot. This room in here, spare bedroom, is a genealogy room. My wife was real deep in genealogy. We traveled probably the last four years of her life, I suppose. We started out after I retired. We liked to travel, we had travel trailers. We spent three weeks out in Salt Lake City in the library, we found out that my grandmother on my daddy’s side, his mother, ancestors come from another country called Rine Meed (ph) in Europe. German has—Germany has taken over this little country, and it was called Rine Meed. I’d [Indecipherable], my daddy’s ancestors back to 1655. At 1655, I have computer book about that too, looked like a [Indecipherable]. Ancestors for my grandson matched to him. We saw Gustaugh Rorabough (ph), was his name. DB: Say it again BT: Gustaugh DB: Gustaugh BT: Rorabough Gustaugh Rorabough ; Rine Meed ; Salt Lake City 3188 Amphitheater BT: Oh, there’s something about a amphitheater I’d like to put out. DB: Have a what? BT: The Amphitheater DB: The amphitheater, yes! BT: In 1965, the boy scouts was real active here, and there was four adults, [Indecipherable], Haskell Golden (ph), George Back (ph), and myself were scout leaders. We—two of us, George Back and Haskell Golden was a boy scout master, Haskell Golden and I were exploring, there were boys over 17 and older, seniors in high school, juniors and seniors in high school, we combined that and called it Post 271. At that time, we entered a [Indecipherable] Robuck Foundation grant for a project in Bristow. Amphitheater ; Clydes Daily ; Conservation Corporation ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; George Back ; Haskell Golden ; Leon Davis ; Mike Dual ; Post 271 ; Robuck Foundation Grant ; Walter Jones 3993 Conclusion DB: Well, I appreciate your time BT: Have we run out of tape? DB: Oh I never run out of tape, but I’ve got to save some room for some other folks. But I just can’t begin to thank you enough for the time you gave us today to just walk down the memory lane and— BT: [Indecipherable] DB: And we’ve enjoyed it. I’m gonna turn this off, thank you Bob BT: You’re welcome. In this 2021 interview, Bob Thompson shares his knowledge of Bristow. He discusses the hand dug water well and the local amphitheater. Interviewer: Debbie BlansettInterviewee: Bob Thompson Other Persons: Date of Interview: January 4th, 2021Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-12 at 00:00 to 66:56 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is January 4th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Bob Thompson in his home in Bristow who' ; s going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now give me your full name so that we' ; ll know who all' ; s here. BT: My name is Bobby Thompson, I live at 638 south cedar and I' ; m 90 years old. LB: My name' ; s Larry BlansettDB: And Debbie Blansett. Alright, let' ; s begin. First thing, do you know anything about the hand dug water well that' ; s in Bristow? BT: I know a little bit about it DB: Can you tell me a little bit about it? BT: It was dug back in the 20' ; s, my grandparents stayed all night there in 1921, and it was dug there and was a congregational place for all of the farmers would come in and congregate and stay all night and go somewhere. You know, it was a more or less stopping point of people leaving Bristow or creek county and going there which way. My grandparents went from Olive to Bristow to Pushmataha county down at Antlers. But they stopped all night here in Bristow because of that well, they could get fresh water and there was a horse trough right there they could water their horses and feed and stay all night, and a safe place to stay. DB: So it was already there in the 20' ; s BT: Yes DB: But you don' ; t know who dug it or-- BT: I don' ; t, you know they' ; re saying the Chinese dug it but I don' ; t know. DB: You don' ; t know? BT: I don' ; t know for sure, but I do know that back in the 60' ; s when there was on the city council, an electrician, a water commissioner [Indecipherable] was a water commissioner there then and it' ; s not like it was set or like it was now, each department head was elected. He was elected as a water commissioner, we had street commissioner, we had building inspector, and things like that. But he asked me to go down and rewire that pump in the well. Of course it had unsafe wiring and I went and rewired it and it was spooky. DB: I bet BT: I had to walk out there, the pump was a fifteen horse [Indecipherable] pump DB: A? BT: A [Indecipherable] pump, it was a screw type. It wasn' ; t a lift pump, it was a screw type water pump, and it was fifteen horse power and it pumped water to this part of to the water system, and at that time, the water department was up on north chestnut street about ten and a half, it' ; s past 10th street. Each well would have 27 wells at that time pumping water for the city of Bristow. Of course, he added more up there, there was about two-foot-long and about a foot wide and it had numbers on it ; 1-27. And that was [Indecipherable] of what water well was pumping at that time. If the number one well was pumping, it was in the on position. They had a pin, a plug that they' ; d put out there and if number one water well was off, it put it over in the off position. And that way, the people would know [Indecipherable] the employees at the water department would know which well was pumping at that time. They alternated these wells, they were at the golf course and east oak street and out at [Indecipherable] we had all over town. There was water wells. DB: Are there still water wells like that? BT: They' ; re still here, the hole is there but they' ; re capped off. We only have three, I believe three water wells supplying the water for Bristow now, I' ; m not sure but I think there' ; s only three water wells. DB: When you worked on the fifteen horse power pump, did it remain a fifteen horsepower pump? BT: It did. DB: Or did you make it larger? BT: No, it remained at fifteen horse power but eventually they disbanded it because of the health department because it was not safe for human consumption. Because of the consumption, there' ; s a building around it. It was an open building, people could walk in there and throw trash and anything, bicycles, toys, anything that a kid could put in there they would put in it. But they disbanded it and now they' ; re trying to do something with it. They found out that it was larger than the one in Greensburg, Kansas. DB: Yeah they say that it' ; s the biggest one, biggest one in the world or the biggest one somewhere, I don' ; t know. BT: It shifted in and they didn' ; t go down to the bottom of the well. Went in there one time and run a survey, tape down and they found out that it was larger, deeper than the one in Greensburg, Kansas. Our mission team from the Methodist church went to Greensburg, Kansas when the tornado come through and demolished it. We went up there and spent a week rebuilding help, rebuilding [Indecipherable]. DB: Uh-huh BT: And I had the pleasure to go down to that Greensburg water well because back in 1947, no it was 1949, we were coming back from Wyoming to see my brother who was in the air force and we stayed all night in Greensburg, Kansas so dad and I drove up there from the motel and visited that water well. I had the pleasure of taking my camera bag, who was had a decal on the back of it showing the water well at that time. The mayor was--of town at that time was so elated that she took a picture of my camera bag of the water well back in 1949 DB: Oh wow BT: So that' ; s, that' ; s about what I know about the water well DB: Okay BT: I don' ; t know DB: No that sounds great, there' ; s just not a lot of people I know, Mickey Moore (ph) has done some work there, but it was just rumored that you knew some things about it. I find it interesting that it was a gathering spot in the 20' ; s for travelers to get water and to feed their animals and a safe pass through BT: Of course all of that was a passage, was an open field. The nursing home was not there then. DB: The houses weren' ; t there BT: Hadie Bishops (ph) house was not there on the corner of main and first street, there was not a grocery store there at that time, it was all--Kum and Go was not there, [Indecipherable] Stop was not there, the church of-- DB: Yes BT: All of the buildings, it was just open field just like this here. This cedar street was built and was put together in 1957, 58' ; and 59' ; , and I moved out here the first day of January of 1960. I stayed in this house in 688--638 south cedar. DB: So you just had an anniversary BT: I just had an anniversary DB: 61 years BT: I just had an anniversary of living in this town. I have the honor of being the oldest tenant of cedar street DB: That' ; s still here? BT: Of age, and living here. All of these other houses, these 42 houses has been--somebody has been in it since 1960 DB: Wow BT: There' ; s no, no other one lived here as long as I have DB: So did you--you didn' ; t live in Bristow ; you weren' ; t born here? BT: I was not born here, but I was born in Depew DB: Not far BT: I didn' ; t fly far from the nest. I was born in Depew in 1930 DB: Were you born at home? BT: I was born at the home and I had the bed stead that I was born in DB: Oh wow BT: And I wanted to be close to my mother. I was born from Depew, people know Ball Park Hill, Ball Park Hill, I was born from there. It was a mile south, a mile east, and about a half a mile north. My father worked for the Gulf Oil Company, and there was 12 houses from that corner all the way up to we call it Stedman hill [Indecipherable] the water well. I stayed there, started my first school there, and in 1949, my dad was transferred to davenport and [Indecipherable] the Gulf Oil Company had a lease over there. Junior of 49' ; , we moved back. DB: To Depew? BT: To Depew, and that same lease, and then the lease house. The house that I was born in was what you call the shotgun house, was a three room house, excuse me. DB: Okay. Okay I think we' ; ll go on again. You were in a lease house that was a shotgun house BT: Yeah, was three--was three rooms, a kitchen, living room, and bedroom. Every room as all right together. The reason that we called it a shotgun house, you could open the front door, put a shotgun in there, and kill everybody in the house. DB: You go straight through the house BT: Straight through. In 1940, or 41' ; rather, in June of 41' ; we moved to Drumright. They had a lease up there that my father [Indecipherable]. We lived there till 1949, I' ; m graduated from Drumright in 1949, and I wondered how long it' ; d take. It used to be the schools--it used to be the school' ; s technology. That' ; s OSU University. I stayed there, I graduated from there in 1950, 53' ; . And I had to go to the army and--no, in 51' ; they came back, in 51' ; and in 52' ; I graduated, got out, and there was when Gloria was real going strong and I got drafted in Korea campaign. I stayed in the army until 1954. I went to Japan, I was sent to Japan as a radar operator and [Indecipherable] division. I got pulled out in Yokohama, Japan and went to call the Hiroshima specialist school DB: A Hiroshima specialist? BT: Hiroshima specialist school, it was a school, they had 27 different educations all the way from [Indecipherable] core which I was a part of, I taught school until 1954. I got out and come back home and I met my wife in the college in square-dance. We had square-dance at the activity center, and we were married in January the 21st of 1952. DB: I take my--the dates. You came back here from Japan in 54' ; ? BT: Yeah DB: And then you went back to school at that time because you would' ; ve had to stop? BT: No, I went to the army DB: Yes BT: In 51' ; DB: And you were-- BT: 52' ; DB: In 52' ; BT: July 52' ; DB: Had you finished your schooling? BT: I was discharged in 54' ; DB: Okay BT: But in 52' ; , I got set up here to--I don' ; t roll, the rock don' ; t roll fast [Indecipherable]. I come to Bristow with Eastern Electrical Oil Company as a power lineman and I stayed on the corner up there where 6th--by 6 days, I [Indecipherable] in July or January the 14' ; to 1952' ; . [Indecipherable] my wife and I were dating at that time and she was coming back and forth on a bus from Tulsa. She was living in Tulsa ; I was living in Bristow. We decided that there was no need of that, so she come down there January the 14th or January the 21st and we got married DB: Just that day? BT: [Inaudible] DB: You just got married on just that day? BT: Just after I got off of work, we just come down there and my [Indecipherable] and his wife stood up for us. They were the best man and judge Hervert Oslers (ph) DB: Herman what? BT: Judge Hervert Oslers (ph) DB: Hervert, ok. BT: Marriages had--I lived with [Indecipherable] for 63 years until her passing five years, and we had a good life right here in this house. And-- DB: So were you married when you had to go to Japan? BT: I was married six months DB: Oh my! BT: I got married in January and I had to go to Japan in July DB: Oh myBT: I went to Fort Bliss, Texas and gained a knowledge in radar and I went to Japan, which is radar M. O. A. [Indecipherable] DB: Uh-huh BT: I was qualified to run a radar DB: And then you taught your--you taught school there BT: Well while I was in Japan, they pulled me out in Yokohama and I went to school, which was about six miles south and three miles west out in the ocean was this Japanese naval academy, which the US in the army called it the Hiroshima Specialist School, and three days passed, my buddy and I were [Indecipherable] and we' ; d go to Yokohama, and we' ; d go to Hiroshima. I traveled several times as just visiting Hiroshima, and it was still devastated DB: Oh I' ; m sure BT: [Indecipherable] the council house was just still a shell. [Indecipherable] was at ground zero. His back was just nothing but solid blister, it was scarred, it was blistered from--then I come back to [Indecipherable]. Come back and I got discharged in 54' ; . Come back to Bristow and I got my old job back as a lineman for East Central Electric and I stayed with the core up until 1953, [Indecipherable] 1993. DB: Oh my! BT: Until I retired, I had 41 years with them DB: You saw them go through a lot of changes in 41 years BT: We had one sub session [Indecipherable] 325, some people don' ; t understand what I' ; m gonna say, what I' ; m gonna tell now. We had in 1954, when I got back from the army, we had one sub session that consisted of 325 KV transformers. That sustained a whole system of northern creek county. We had [Indecipherable] wooden servers, they was building one, a new substation east of town two miles. As the system grew, when I retired, we had seven sub stations DB: Oh man BT: And none of them could [Indecipherable]. We had one substation that carried the quick set corporation after [Indecipherable]. That was one substation, this substation east of town, we had a [Indecipherable], we had [Indecipherable], we had [Indecipherable], we had [Indecipherable], and there was those substations carried less than a hundred now, they were [Indecipherable], the forty years has grown that much, of oil field work industry, and [Indecipherable] was acquired--required at that time. DB: Yes BT: So, we had a good system. I' ; d go back [Indecipherable] once a year, I didn' ; t go this year so. DB: Just to check on them and make sure everything' ; s still going? BT: Yeah, it' ; s been a good life DB: You' ; ve done some really spectacular things BT: I' ; ve had a good life, I lost my wife five years ago, I' ; ve reconciled that, I have friends that I would not take a hundred dollars for, I would give 50 cents for some, but I wouldn' ; t take a hundred dollars. DB: How many children did you have? Do you have? BT: We have two children, Michael (ph), which is 62 and Cathy, she' ; ll be--it' ; s kind of strange, I want to say this, I tell people that my family grew. My son was born on the twenty--on the 14th of January, my daughter was born on the 19th of January, and my wife and I got married on the 21st of January DB: Oh! BT: Makes people think DB: Yes, yes. There' ; s something about January. BT: There was--Michael, when I retired in 93' ; , I hung my [Indecipherable] become a licensed electrician. And now since my six--about six years ago, I [Indecipherable] to my son Mike, and he' ; s taken over now. And Cathy is working in town at headquarters there and runs all [Indecipherable] in Catoosa. She and her husband had to sell out--highway 20 was taken their home from her. It was expanding, highway 20 from 169 to Claremore DB: Uh-huh BT: So they chose a new home down there and they bought a new underground home and I travel to Catoosa and they like it very well, and it' ; s 18 acres and [Indecipherable]. My grandchildren, Mike has one child and two adopted children, his name was Michael Dillon (ph), he graduated from Bristow high school and I have three granddaughters of Cathy' ; s children and Amanda is the oldest, Elizabeth is the middle child, she' ; s a teacher in Jenks high school, and Megan is living in Collinsville, Oklahoma. They all got children, Megan has got one, one little boy Jett, Elizabeth has got three, one adopted and two of her own, and Elizabeth has got one--or Megan has got-- DB: Amanda, Amanda. You told me Elizabeth and Megan. How many did Amanda have? BT: Amanda had one. DB: Now is Amanda the one that would come every summer and stay with you all? BT: Yeah, she would come and stay with us and we' ; d go places, take her to the park, take her to the zoo, what kids would like to do. DB: That' ; s right BT: And she remembers, she remembers. DB: I remember. Now you told me on the phone that you had some--you had the cornerstone from the clinic, and you had some specimen vials or flasks and you had doctor Sisler' ; s (ph) day book, how did you come by those things? BT: How did I come by those? In 1960, I was on the city council, I can' ; t remember what I did, I served two terms on the city council and at that time, we had a hospital where Doctor Sisler-- DB: SislerBT: Sisler and Cowart, C. O. W. A. R. T., they were partners, Sisler and Cowart Clinic, and they both retired. Well that left a building with the facilities for a hospital. Well, Dr. Frank Chapman, coming he would become a doctor at that clinic until our hospital was built out here. That became a vacant building and [Indecipherable] and we needed a parking place, parking, so we decided to put it up for auction and put it up for bid and a fella by the name [Indecipherable] and they were the highest bidder. At that time, the building was [Indecipherable] at this time. But I asked him if I could have the [Indecipherable] off of the building, and they said they don' ; t need, they wanted to bring the lumber out there, which [Indecipherable] and bricked his mothers house down in Gypsie, and [Indecipherable] took some lumber and built a home here in Bristow. I read that [Indecipherable] and I' ; ve had it ever since, I' ; ve moved it twice, that' ; s how heavy it is, it' ; s out in my backyard under my patio roof. And in the contents of the hospital, at one time I had [Indecipherable] and emergency equipment out at the hospital. [Indecipherable] over the years I don' ; t know where they' ; ve went. But I do have Doctor Sislers graduation picture from his college. I have the beakers of his chemistry room that he would put cultures in it and find out what was wrong. Now I have his day book that has daily patients, which come in as someone would pay a dollar, someone would pay fifty cents and, let' ; s see, that' ; s about all. And that--I do have his operating table and I' ; ve used it outside. It' ; s not deplorable, it' ; s--it can be--it can be [Indecipherable], it can be repainted, it can be and I' ; d like to get all of that all in one package because it' ; s related. DB: Oh they' ; re very thrilled about your donation ; I was just curious how you came about it but-- BT: Well that' ; s how I come about it, and I-- DB: Were they your doctors? When you all first were married and first were here? BT: Doctor Sisler, I had appendicitis at the time when I lived in Drumright. We had no hospital in Drumright, so dad brought me down on a Saturday afternoon, I was about to die, I thought. I had appendicitis at the time, and he brought a bed for me, took 28 minutes to Drumright to Bristow, they checked me in into Bristow clinic. Doctor Sister diagnosed me and he said " ; We' ; re gonna put him on ice" ; , and put ice on me. He put a big ol' ; pack of ice on me and said " ; We' ; ll operate if you want to" ; . DB: Maybe take some of the swelling down, maybe? BT: They concentrated all of that together, the pain and whatever it was. And I can [Indecipherable] other things more, [Indecipherable] because I was a teenager, I was 17 years old and the [Indecipherable] Jimmy Ray Jones (ph) and Cyler Raymond Jones, and Barbara, Kacey Jones' ; (ph) brother, [Indecipherable], it was Loraine Hocket (ph), I [Indecipherable] with her, I can only remember a lot as a kid, but they would come up and visit, bring me a candy bar, a package of gum. A sack of popcorn or whatever, somebody was always bringing me something. I become [Indecipherable] I come down to Bristow, I' ; d always come to see them. And that was--many times I wonder where they' ; re at. I don' ; t know. DB: Where their family? Where they are or where their families are? BT: I don' ; t know anything else DB: Well it sounds pretty remarkable to me BT: Oh, by cedar street, let me back up a little bit, and not back up but just fill about cedar street. When I come to Bristow in 1952, I stayed in the house over there on the corner. The house back to the side, on the west side of it, was a farm house, this was a corn field and a hog pen. My backyard was a hog pen. I' ; m building my patio, I dug into an old hog jaw. And I know because the smell was still there. All of this was corn field, this twenty acres. This was built--I started building this--this addition [Indecipherable] winding down, and all the G.I.' ; s wanted [Indecipherable]. Oh gosh there were G.I.-- there was G.I.' ; s all up and down, this was the world protection we had three highway patrolmen on this street at one time. DB: Wow BT: [Indecipherable] lived over there, [Indecipherable] lived here, John (ph) lived next door, and then on the corner it was when I was a little big old boy, he was a highway patrolman, he lived next door. DB: Very well protected area. BT: The reason the cedar street has built [Indecipherable] the engineers and the surveyors moved cedar street 10 feet to the east, that year the people on the west side of the street had [Indecipherable]. An [Indecipherable] is an ally closed by one end, it is not opened. DB: What do you mean it' ; s not open? BT: House, down the house, reason it' ; s not open. This is bigger, they don' ; t have one because they don' ; t have that 10 foot over there. And the people that [Indecipherable] works with, Louis Templeton (ph), he was a farmer. In 1957, he bought a place was 5 acres track east of us, and he lived there until 70' ; . He passed away in 1980--70' ; s. DB: So this was just a neighborhood of young-- BT: This-- DB: Young G.I.' ; s and-- BT: This was the most prolific straight in the town, had to have two one, two seven kids to the house. DB: Oh wow BT: We had box parties, we had little lady next door, lived in that house, brick house after. She was a party person, she had a little girl just cute as a button, but she wanted everybody to be happy. And every holiday, 4th of July, Valentines, she' ; d make a holiday to have something to do, she was free. She' ; d have shoe box parties, would have the kids to decorate a shoe box, and the first six houses had the most kids, and they were decorating, [Indecipherable]. Daytime on Saturday, you didn' ; t come up cedar street with a car, you waited until the kids got there [Indecipherable]. Forty--fourth of July, we were all--we weren' ; t poor but we didn' ; t have any spending money. We weren' ; t broke, but we weren' ; t badly bent. You know what talking about DB: Absolutely BT: We had, I followed Mr. Dordie, lived on the corner. He had a big tin can of big brown barbeque. We would make chicken, bologna, weenies, take them up to fourth of July, [Indecipherable], we' ; d just go anywhere. We didn' ; t have any money to go. Oh we did but we didn' ; t spend it. But we had-- DB: It was different ; it was different then. I grew up in the 60' ; s and--and we had a lot of fun at home. And if we did go someplace, it was to the lake. I mean it didn' ; t cost money to go to the lake except gas. BT: We' ; ll go to the--we traveled a lot. This room in here, spare bedroom, is a genealogy room. My wife was real deep in genealogy. We traveled probably the last four years of her life, I suppose. We started out after I retired. We liked to travel, we had travel trailers. We spent three weeks out in Salt Lake City in the library, we found out that my grandmother on my daddy' ; s side, his mother, ancestors come from another country called Rine Meed (ph) in Europe. German has--Germany has taken over this little country, and it was called Rine Meed. I' ; d [Indecipherable], my daddy' ; s ancestors back to 1655. At 1655, I have computer book about that too, looked like a [Indecipherable]. Ancestors for my grandson matched to him. We saw Gustaugh Rorabouh (ph), was his name. DB: Say it again BT: GustaughDB: GustaughBT: Rorabough DB: Rollbowl? BT: Rorabough, R. O. R. A. B. O. U. G. H. DB: RoraboughBT: Rorabough. And I have--I was just watching that lady there at the library in Utah, if you' ; re a Mormon, they won' ; t help you. You' ; re supposed to know how to go about it through their belief, which I sometimes [Indecipherable] and I have some Mormon left, Mormon friends. I was sitting there doing the computer and this lady was helping me and another man at another cubicle with a computer [Indecipherable] was a computer, and I was working this computer and I said " ; Dang, I' ; d like to find out something about [Indecipherable]" ; the computer was not--quit [Indecipherable]. And this lady said " ; I don' ; t know just exactly what to do" ; and this fella kind of heard us talking and he raised up enough and said " ; If you see that little note on that computer screen, that tells you that the rest of this program is in the archives in the mountains" ; in the mountains in Utah. I said " ; Well, I' ; d like to find that, how do I go about it?" ; and he said " ; Well you can' ; t because you' ; re not a Mormon" ; and I [Indecipherable]. I said " ; Well, are you?" ; He said " ; I am one" ; and I said " ; Well, what' ; d you charge?" ; And he said " ; Well, I get $15 an hour" ; I said " ; Well that' ; s not bad" ; but we were getting ready to leave the next day, I said " ; Well, how long maybe would it take?" ; He said " ; Well, it might take an hour, it might take 100 hours" ; I said " ; I think I' ; ll quit right here, that' ; s enough" ; and this lady-- DB: 1655 was pretty far back BT: This lady, she said " ; Do you want a copy of this?" ; and I said " ; Well yeah" ; she punched a copy button, I sat there-- DB: That' ; s where your book came from BT: That' ; s where my book come from. I took it to the cashier and he--we' ; ve become first name basis by that time and the cashier that day was Marilyn, I' ; ll never forget it, big ol' ; tall blonde headed girl. And I said " ; Marilyn I' ; d like to pay you for this" ; and I slid that book up there, and she said " ; Mr. Thompson, if you think I' ; m gonna count the pages on that, you' ; re just plum silly. Would $10 be plenty?" ; DB: Oh my goodness BT: So I gave her $10, but I imagine there' ; s over 300-400 pages of computer paper, and it' ; s just like a computer [Indecipherable], it' ; s a story book is what it is. And [Indecipherable], it starts that way then it goes to Gustaugh Rorabouh (ph). DB: That' ; s pretty amazing. BT: Right, that' ; s kind of--kind of funny. DB: I think I' ; ve got everything that I need to get, unless we' ; ve forgotten something else. Anything else pop in your head that--no? BT: Oh, there' ; s something about a amphitheater I' ; d like to put out. DB: Have a what? BT: The Amphitheater DB: The amphitheater, yes! BT: In 1965, the boy scouts was real active here, and there was four adults, [Indecipherable], Haskell Golden (ph), George Back (ph), and myself were scout leaders. We--two of us, George Back and Haskell Golden was a boy scout master, Haskell Golden and I were exploring, there were boys over 17 and older, seniors in high school, juniors and seniors in high school, we combined that and called it Post 271. At that time, we entered a [Indecipherable] Robuck Foundation grant for a project in Bristow. We undertook, refurbished the amphitheater and one time, if you look at the amphitheater now, there was a tree in between each one of those trees now. We cut out every other one of those trees. We refinished the stadium. At that time, there were two upright pianos, that grand level was over my head to the stage another was--the stage was six-foot or better from the ground level. [Indecipherable] " ; Mr. Thompson, what are you--what do you want to do with these old pianos?" ; and before I could say " ; I don' ; t know" ; there was no keyboards, no nothing, there was just out there in storage. Then old [Indecipherable] stage down under there, and there [Indecipherable] to stock up underneath. All of the trash, it was there. Walter Jones (ph) and [Indecipherable] Taylor (ph) would [Indecipherable] their horses in there with the gate of two barbed wire pieces of two barbed wire, and that was their gate. Their horses could not get out of there on account of the trees. There were so many trees like I said, if you count a tree, and I believe if I' ; m not mistaken, there' ; s a stump of a cedar tree. If you look, there might be the remains of a stump in between those trees. Very seldom, people think we renovated that, but that was the first time it was renovated since it was built and Eleanor Roosevelt spoke from that stage. [Indecipherable] DB: And she dedicated it? BT: When she dedicated it. Leon Davis was a photographer, VFW commander, mayor, jack of all trades here in Depew here in Bristow. Anyways, a promoter, I mean he was a promoter. He crawled up on the--used to be a--I can' ; t think. DB: The little back drop thing that' ; s at the back of the stage or--? BT: That was the back stage, the dressing rooms, we already finished those, rewired them, and they used to have fiddling contests on [Indecipherable] we' ; d have fiddling contests, people would come out-- DB: Is that where you climbed up on top of that? BT: No they never, no it was fiddling. DB: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. BT: In my land, people call it fiddling DB: Yes BT: And this was between the [Indecipherable] DB: Oh BT: I fiddled down here [Indecipherable] DB: Okay BT: I can remember Mike Dual (ph) and his grandpa would--his grandpa would play the fiddle and Mike Dual would play the guitar [Indecipherable] and he' ; d--and when Mike Dual back when he was younger, that was back in 65' ; . Leon Davis, who was the mayor at that time, he would call up on me [Indecipherable]which was the county fair barn. I can' ; t tell you what the name of it was, you remember when the building was out there? LB: That was, yes. DB: Oh the building that used to be in the parking lot? LB: Yes BT: Where the water tower is DB: Yeah it was a-- LB: Conservation DB: Conservation BT: Conservation Corporation DB: Yes BT: Yeah, that had a stage in it DB: Yes BT: And they had parties and stuff in it DB: Yes BT: Well I [Indecipherable] at that time, had part of me and down underneath had a basement. We care for several defense equipment, trucks [Indecipherable], firetrucks, jeeps, fire equipment underneath it. We had one of the most elaborate fire stations, fire equipment, we had five army jukes with two hundred fifty gallon tanks on the backs of them for brush, you' ; d go out here and drive over the pasture with a brush hog. We had two fire trucks, we had one water truck, and there was a whole other one [Indecipherable]. When the water or firetruck went out, a water truck went with it, and two jeeps went with it. We had this pasture out here caught on fire one time. My front yard caught on fire, I had my hose ready, I could [Indecipherable]. Several defense come through there, we had wire pliers, we cut pasture fences which farmers glad about it, we had a good one. But anyway back to the--we' ; d go out there, the scouts would go out there on Saturdays and we' ; d cut grass, we repainted the building, put a tin roof on top of it, we was working out there, cleaned grass up. Some of the [Indecipherable] was broken down and we' ; d dig them up from the back and bring them down in the front and replant them. [Indecipherable] those old seats, the broken seats, was put up there and eventually all of this dirt and the trash and the mayor at that time was [Indecipherable], Rosemarys (ph) father-in-law, Clydes Daily (ph), he said anything that the boy scouts wants he said he was gonna do it. He sent a truck driver out every Saturday morning and we' ; d fill the truck up and he' ; d bring it down to the front of the stadium and put it in that ditch. We needed a load of dirt, he' ; d take that truck and get a back hoe for the dirt and we' ; d spread it out over there, and eventually we had a level ground and all he had to do was step up on [Indecipherable]. DB: Like it is now BT: Like it is now, there' ; s three upright pianos and [Indecipherable] the garbage that people don' ; t know about DB: At the bottom of that-- BT: At the bottom of that pit. We won five hundred dollars second place prize in the contest. DB: In the [Indecipherable] Robuck company (ph)? BT: In the [Indecipherable] Robuck Company (ph). That gave us enough money to try to trip to Canada. We went to Canada, George Summoners (ph) canoe place was at [Indecipherable] Minnesota, which was on the Canadian border. We spend a week going to Canada, fishing and playing, seeing the country. And that was--and we have a book, a picture book of what we did, when we did, and how we got it and that was some of the--People don' ; t think--[Indecipherable] old timers, [Indecipherable] last summer, it was cutting a [Indecipherable] oh boy, we renovated the amphitheater, " ; You didn' ; t renovate it, you destroyed the second time" ; DB: Yes BT: We renovated it the first time because it was [Indecipherable] DB: Well and it' ; s--so it' ; s probably what they did last two summers ago, the work they did out there is probably the first time it' ; s been done since you all worked on it. BT: Yeah, yeah. DB: So it was way past needing to be done. BT: Oh if you want--if you want to go out there and look, in between each tree, there might be a stump. DB: I will, the next time I' ; m there I' ; ll make an extra effort to look and at least I' ; ll know why it' ; s that way. BT: [Indecipherable] DB: Uh-huh BT: And honestly I don' ; t know DB: Well, I appreciate your time BT: Have we run out of tape? DB: Oh I never run out of tape, but I' ; ve got to save some room for some other folks. But I just can' ; t begin to thank you enough for the time you gave us today to just walk down the memory lane and-- BT: [Indecipherable] DB: And we' ; ve enjoyed it. I' ; m gonna turn this off, thank you Bob BT: You' ; re welcome. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-12_Thompson,_Bob.xml OHP-2020-12_Thompson,_Bob.xml
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Bob Thompson
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In this 2021 interview, Bob Thompson shares his knowledge of Bristow. He discusses the hand dug water well and the local amphitheater.
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OHP-2020-12
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2021-01-04
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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English
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audio, oral history
amphitheater
Boy Scouts
East Central Electric
hand dug well
home life
hospital
Korean War
social life
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
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Bunny Baker
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5.4 September 11, 2020 OHP-2020-01 Bunny Baker OHP-2020-01 0:00-92:19 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bunny Baker Georgia Smith MP3 1:|56(4)|93(3)|114(7)|146(8)|177(18)|204(4)|223(15)|249(2)|264(6)|289(8)|307(13)|320(15)|349(5)|372(15)|400(4)|416(4)|434(2)|449(6)|480(5)|502(4)|521(12)|537(15)|561(2)|586(1)|604(15)|631(6)|653(12)|681(3)|694(11)|721(4)|757(4)|771(11)|791(11)|832(4)|845(12)|876(2)|899(14)|926(13)|951(4)|971(4)|993(8)|1024(8)|1048(11)|1058(6)|1072(8)|1089(5)|1102(16)|1127(13)|1143(5)|1170(11)|1195(8)|1216(5)|1247(7)|1270(4)|1290(16)|1318(18)|1340(4)|1361(19)|1380(1)|1405(10)|1425(6)|1446(2)|1463(9)|1475(12)|1497(12)|1511(7)|1523(18)|1535(12)|1553(6)|1569(13)|1598(12)|1618(3)|1642(13)|1656(1)|1674(7)|1695(9)|1709(2)|1726(13)|1745(15)|1771(3)|1794(4)|1807(3)|1823(6)|1850(11)|1881(13)|1917(4)|1932(7)|1950(4)|1973(3)|2005(2)|2033(2)|2058(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-01 Bunny Baker.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family GS: Testing. There we go. Okay, Bunny, I’m going to sit this right here so it’ll pick you up good. Let me check the volume on it. Oh yeah, it’s up there. Okay. So. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is September 11, 2020 and I am sitting here with Bunny Baker at her house, who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name. BB: The real name? GS: The real name, Bunny. BB: Herpal (ph) A. Baker. GS: Okay. And where were you born? BB: Six miles south and a half mile west of Bristow Bobby Donald Dowdy ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bunny Baker ; Cathy Rae ; Cotton ; Donna Rae ; Dorothy Jean Dowdy ; Georgia Smith ; Herpal A. Baker ; Hester Mae Foster ; John Joseph Dowdy ; Junior Frank Dowdy ; Merle Baker ; Nonna Mae Dowdy ; Peanuts ; World War I https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26505461/hester-mae-dowdy Hester Mae Foster Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131963626/william-frank-dowdy William Frank Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102851520/dorothy-jean-sparkman Dorothy Jean Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131560745/john-j-dowdy John J Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25859691/merle-tommy-baker Merle Tommy Baker 275 Early Childhood GS: Okay, now were’ gonna get into what it was like when you were a kid at home. Tell me about what life was like when you were a kid, as a young child living at your house BB: Well it was a riot GS: (Laughter) Of course it was BB: My mother was a disciplinary, disciplinary— GS: Disciplinarian BB: Yes, I can’t think of words. But she was a lady, but she would’ve been a wonderful children’s teacher GS: Uh-huh Missy Shepard ; Norma Mae ; riding the saw ; sorghum ; wood stove 796 Normal Means GS: Yeah you don’t want somebody riding the saw when you’re working. What are your—what are some of the normal means that you had? BB: Oh, we raised everything we ate, and mom was a wonderful cook and had on the small cabinets, she had—I don’t know. But we had cornbread and beans of course, but we had always had meat, we had always had pork and chicken. GS: Who did your butchering for ya? BB: We did it. GS: Did your mom butcher? BB: No, she ground the meat and the sausage. GS: But I mean as far as killing the animal and everything, who did that? barefoot ; basketball ; Buffalo Wallow ; cornmeal ; croquet ; grinder ; Hog Wallow ; hundred-pound sack of sugar ; moccasin ; overalls ; square dance club ; swinging parties ; Tibbons ; western heritage days 1403 Radios, TV, and Electricity GS: Do you remember the first time you heard a radio? BB: No not really GS: Did you have a radio in your house? BB: Yes, with a battery. And dad— they just listened to it for the news, except when Joe Louis (ph) was gonna fight and of course I loved anything tomboy, and so me and my dad would hear the Joe Louis fights and then mom led us— when the grand the Grand Ole Opry came into be on Saturday nights, she let us hear the Grand Ole Opry. Well then after that we would play Grand Ole Opry and that’s a hard hand taught me how to play the guitar when I was nine years old, and then we’d play like we were Grand Ole Opry and one by one I taught my brother John to play the guitar, and my sister she wasn’t very interested in it when I started playing the fiddle. Anyway, got them all together, and only two kids— two grandkids are following the music tradition and (Muffled noises) they’re good. Little John, he plays the fiddle really good. GS: Oh he does? Conasiny Tiger ; Grand Ole Opry ; Joe Louis ; Kerosene stove 1674 Early Family History GS: Okay you mentioned your grandfather earlier built the first school. Tell me about your grandparents. First tell me their names. BB: Well his name was Foster William, William— William Orange Foster (ph). He was from— shoot I can’t think of it. GS: That’s okay BB: But anyway, he and my grandmother were— my grandmother had lived up there when she was little, but they lived in Farmersville, Texas and they got married in Farmersville, Texas. My grandmother’s dad was in church and he picked her up in a buggy and they eloped. And then they wanted to come to Oklahoma, and they came in a covered wagon, and they stopped through Shawnee town, which no longer exists, but it was down somewhere near Shawnee. And he had a friend a mile west of Iron Post that ran— had a dairy, and the friend told him that he could work for him, so they lived in a dugout on the east side of their house till he could buy some land. And my grandfather bought— they had a, Indians had an auction and he bought land from the Indians and I can’t remember but it was, he didn’t pay much of anything, seemed like a dollar for ten acres [Indecipherable] Buffalo Wallow ; Farmersville, Texas ; Nettie Alice Foster ; Shawnee town ; William Orange Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26847106/nettie-a-foster Nettie Alice Foster 2010 School and Church GS: Oh. Okay, now we’re gonna— BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Now we’re gonna head off to school BB: Oh (Laughter) GS: Where did you go to school first? BB: Iron Post GS: Iron Post, and that was how many miles south of Bristow? BB: Would’ve been 7 miles south and a mile west. GS: Okay, who was your teacher? BB: Mrs. Howell (ph) 4H Club ; black school ; Bunny ; Duns cap ; Home Demonstration Club ; Iron Post ; Joe Isle ; Mrs. Bourget ; Mrs. Howell ; Pontiac ; Tibbons ; tin bucket ; white school 2561 Christmas GS: What were Christmases like as a child? BB: Oh, they were great! We didn’t have wrapping paper, we didn’t have money for it, you know. And we— seems like we got a dollar for— to buy with. But there’s a big joke there that if you can get jigsaw puzzles for a dollar, for 25cents, either 25cents or a nickel, I think it was 25cents, but there was all six of us to buy for, you know, and so we would— GS: I’s just checking making sure it’s still working, it is BB: We would buy our brothers Bob and John, they just hated jigsaw puzzles, but my sister and I we just loved to work them. So every Christmas we’d buy them a jigsaw puzzle, and well— to tell you what you wanted, you know. They, Tibbons, furnished a great big Christmas tree for the Iron Post school, and with the money we made off of putting on plays at Gypsy and Iron Post and whatever, they bought candy and they made they a sack for every family whose children went to school at Iron Post. It had an apple and an orange and package of gum and miscellaneous candy, and some nuts, it was real nice. GS: And it was one per family? Christmas ; jigsaw puzzles ; John Wayne ; Pie Suppers 2843 Medical Care GS: Okay we’re gonna skip now to medical care. BB: Uh-oh GS: What was medical care like when you were a kid? BB: Well there wasn’t any really. I broke my collarbone and didn’t go to the doctor, you can feel it. GS: Oh my word BB: When I was 19, I went to the doctor with the flu and he said “When did you break your collarbone?’ well I knew when I broke it but I didn’t tell him about it. ‘Ol Dr. King, his mother and my mother— my grandmother were good friends and he took care of us and every fall, he would mix up liniments and it was just his own secret and bring it out and it’d be a quart in a big bottle and mom called it horse liniments. That boy would cure your colds and whatever. GG: Wow BB: And he would bring his mother and leave her at my grandmother’s house so they could tear all the neighbors apart black powder ; Dr. King ; liniments ; medical care 3025 Businesses GS: Okay let’s skip now to Bristow, and we’re still in early childhood here, so what was Bristow like in your early childhood? Did you get to come to Bristow often? BB: We came on Saturdays a lot ‘cus we brought stuff— vegetables and stuff to the poor farm, and— GS: Did you sell them to the poor farm or give them to the poor far? BB: No we just gave them to the poor farm. But I know where the, it’s the dollar store on main street, what’s the name of that store? GS: Dollar General BB: Yeah Dollar General. Well around the corner, there was a bar and we would try to park across the street because every night there’d be a fight at the bar and they’d take it outside, you know. But we would sit in the car and watch the people go by or walk up and down the street and then we’d hope to see somebody we knew. dollar general ; dollar store ; feed sacks ; Hamburger King ; JC Pennys ; poor farm ; Strongs 3337 Jobs GS: What was your first job Bunny? BB: Piggly Wiggly Grocery store GS: Where was it? BB: It was on the west side of main street down from, it was in the block south of, can’t even think of what’s there now, sixth street or something. You know where the bank was. GS: Spirit or Community? BB: First National GS: Okay BB: On the corner of main street, it was down south of there. That was during my junior and senior year, and then I went on to work with Maxine Jenkins at Lions Café as a soda jerk. GS: Now just for generations that have never heard of soda jerk, what was a soda jerk? I know but let’s hear it explained candy building ; Community Bank ; First National Bank ; Johnny Horainy ; Lions Cafe ; Maxine Jenkins ; Piggly Wiggly Grocery Store ; soda jerk ; Spirit Bank ; typist ; Wanda Sanders 3733 Marriage and Western Heritage Days GS: Okay I wanna know about when you met Merle BB: I knew him all my life, I guess. They played, you know, music for the Pie Suppers and everything, so we’d go in and hear them GS: Was he from the Iron Post area also? BB: No he was from down by— well at first he was over on the east of Talaha (ph) [Indecipherable] GS: Okay BB: And then they moved to south of town, I think he went to school at Valentine maybe GS: Okay BB: And, but he— I don’t know they might have had a bus running from Gypsy down there, but I never knew him until he was, you know, he was in school at Gypsy. GS: So did he ask you out on a first date? Bunny ; chestcord ; Doy Cochran ; Francis Wrestler ; Gingham Dress ; Government Assistant Work Programs ; great depression ; J& ; J Cafe ; Kenneth Mann ; Mason Family ; Merle Tommy Baker ; Mr. Poston ; Pie Suppers ; Talaha ; Tibbons ; Western Heritage Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25859691/merle-tommy-baker Merle Tommy Baker 4810 Politics and Military Service GS: Do you remember any of the— I know you said none of your family worked for the WPA, but do you remember coming into Bristow when they maybe built the amphitheater or when Mrs. Roosevelt came and dedicated it in the building? BB: Well mom would bring us to town like there was somebody, Landon I think it was, ran for president. He’d come on the train and talk on the back of the train, and she would bring us to town to see those people, she was always very good with— GS: Political binded BB: Yeah political binded. But I don’t remember that GS: Okay, okay. BB: I might’ve come, but I don’t remember it. GS: She was [Indecipherable]. Was she involved in politics in any other way? BB: Well, I don’t know if she was always— she, there was a mayor Brong (ph). Anyway, she always came to their meetings, you know, she was always interested in the government, whatever was going on so I guess she was interested in politics. Alfred Dobson ; amphitheater ; Japanese ; marines ; Mayor Brong ; Mrs. Roosevelt ; Pearl Harbor ; Ration Book ; Tulsa World ; WASP ; womens sufferage ; World War II ; WPA ; WWII 5148 Biggest Impacts and Problems Today GS: That’s wonderful. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your lifetime? BB: Wow so many GS: Yes, there are. There’s so many that have impacted life, it would be hard to pick just a few favorite. BB: Yeah, I guess most important would be the computers. But I don’t have one, don’t want one. I’ve gone this long, long time without one, don’t need one. GS: What event would you say influence the world the most during your lifetime? Event or events? BB: I would say World War II GS: Did you— were you aware during WWII of what Hitler was doing? BB: Yes, I kept up with the news. Mom insisted on a daily newspaper, so. GS: Oh, this is a loaded question ; how different is the world today than it was when you were a child? Bunny ; C. C. Wilson ; Caroline Webb ; CPA ; Hitler ; Johnny Simmons ; reporter ; WWII In this 2020 interview, Bunny Baker shares her experiences growing up in Bristow. She discusses family history, western heritage days, and shares many fun stories from her childhood through young adult life. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Bunny Baker (BB) Other Persons: Date of Interview: September 11, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Testing. There we go. Okay, Bunny, I' ; m going to sit this right here so it' ; ll pick you up good. Let me check the volume on it. Oh yeah, it' ; s up there. Okay. So. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is September 11, 2020 and I am sitting here with Bunny Baker at her house, who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name. BB: The real name? GS: The real name, Bunny. BB: Herpal (ph) A. Baker. GS: Okay. And where were you born? BB: Six miles south and a half mile west of Bristow. [muffled sounds] GS: Sit that right there so it' ; ll get ya. Don' ; t touch anything on it, just--we' ; ll just let it sit right there, so. BB: Okay. GS: Yeah, ' ; cause I want to make sure it' ; s still recording. Yeah. So we' ; ll just sit it right there, and it' ; ll pick it up. It' ; s not gonna fall, I don' ; t think. I think you might' ; ve just told me, but I was paying attention to the recorder. Where were you born? BB: Six miles south and one mile west of Bristow. GS: In the family home? BB: Yes. GS: And what was your date of birth? BB: May the twenty-third, 1926. GS: Aww, how wonderful. What were your parents' ; names? We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. BB: Hester Mae Foster. GS: Hester Mae Foster. And when were your parents married? BB: I don' ; t remember. GS: That' ; s okay. Do you know where they were married? BB: In--no, I don' ; t. GS: Okay, that' ; s alright too. Do you know--were they all, were they raised, born in this area or did they move in to this area? BB: They were born in this area. GS: Okay, alright. How many children did your parents have? BB: Six. GS: And what were your siblings' ; names? BB: Nonna (ph) Mae (ph)--you want the full name? Was Dowdy. Nonna (ph) Mae (ph) Dowdy. Junior Frank Dowdy. Herpal (ph) A. Baker. Dorothy Jean Bak--Baker. Oh, not Baker. GS: Dowdy. BB: Dowdy. And John Joseph Dowdy. And Bobby Donald Dowdy. GS: Okay. What work did your father do for a living? BB: He was a ninety-eight percent disabled World War I veteran. Before that, he was a barber. And then he was always in and out of the hospital. The rest of his life he was disabled. GS: Bless his heart. What about your mother? Did she work out at the home? BB: No, she worked in the home for everybody that came by. GS: So how did they get by if your dad-- BB: Well she drew a small oil check, her mother had five oil wells on her land, and she drew it. Of course you know, that oil. GS: ' ; Cause the government didn' ; t have disability back then, did they? BB: No no no, no. GS: Did he farm or anything? BB: Yeah we farmed. GS: Did you sell any of the produce? BB: Yes GS: At a farmer' ; s market or a little bench alongside the road or what? BB: No, just brought it to town. GS: What were some of the crops you sold? BB: Oh, peanuts, cotton, cotton first, then peanuts, and--so much of it like corn we used to grow on the farm GS: Oh BB: But we sold the peanuts and the cotton. GS: Okay. What was your spouse' ; s name? BB: Merle Baker (ph) GS: And what was the date you got married? BB: June the thirtieth, 1945 GS: Oh, right after the war or during the war? BB: Right after GS: Right after. How many children did you have? BB: None. GS: But you did adopt some? BB: Yes GS: What are their names? BB: Cathy Rae (ph) and Donna Rae (ph) GS: Okay, now were' ; gonna get into what it was like when you were a kid at home. Tell me about what life was like when you were a kid, as a young child living at your house BB: Well it was a riot GS: (Laughter) Of course it was BB: My mother was a disciplinary, disciplinary-- GS: Disciplinarian BB: Yes, I can' ; t think of words. But she was a lady, but she would' ; ve been a wonderful children' ; s teacher GS: Uh-huh BB: She punished you in such funny ways. She thought of things like--she said that on a moonlit night if you had been good enough, you could watch the fairies dancing on the east side of the house out on the lawn. Well, we had a bedroom with a window in the east side of the house. So every night when the moon shone, we' ; d gather at that window to look for fairies. GS: Oh how wonderful! BB: But we had to be good enough, if you weren' ; t good enough you couldn' ; t see the fairies. So every night after we couldn' ; t see the moon when we were younger, we' ; d swear we was gonna be better. And then she had another one if we got into trouble, she made us play on opposite sides of the house, that way you didn' ; t have anybody to play with. Oh she was something else, and she--we asked her where calves came from, and she said the old cows found them in the woods. Well we figured if a cow could find a calf we sure could. And that was her way, I now know, of getting us out of her hair. But we would spend hours out in the woods looking for calves. GS: It sounds like she was a pretty smart lady! BB: Yes, she was GS: Besides thinking outside the box BB: Yeah, yeah she' ; s-- GS: Very clever! BB: She had it all going, but if you didn' ; t behave you was in trouble. We found out early that she could run faster than we could then you got a whoopin' ; for running. And we were punished with peach tree limbs and we had to get our own switches, they were switches, but if you got one too big then you got--you know, on purpose, you got two switches instead of one. And girls wore dresses and it stung like crazy. You didn' ; t ask for that very much. GS: Oh I' ; m sure not, I' ; m sure not. Who was the oldest child in your family? BB: Norma Mae [Inaudible] GS: And where did you fall in there, Bunny? BB: In the middle, naturally. GS: In the middle, of course. So what are some of the things--chores that you had to do when you were a kid? BB: Well milk, feed the hogs, feed the chickens, feed the cows, anything outside, I worked outside with my big brother ' ; cause dad wasn' ; t there. He' ; s--I didn' ; t remember my dad until I was probably a young teenager because he was in the Hospital, [Indecipherable] hospital, and then [Indecipherable] for years GS: Oh, how sad. BB: And then as he' ; d go back, he' ; d--he could just, later he could come home maybe for a week or two, but then he' ; d have to go back. But he suffered from the [Indecipherable] GS: Aw, I' ; m so sorry. That' ; s sad Bunny. BB: Yeah, like he couldn' ; t--if he was home, we had to cool our own lamps, and somebody had to fill the lamp every evening because the bowl would hold enough cooler oil for the night, but if he woke up during the night and it was dark, he would see Germans and stuff. GS: Aw, we just don' ; t know how thankful we are to-- BB: Boy that' ; s right GS: Not have had to go through that. What kind of house did you live in? BB: Well it was just a wooden house, it had three rooms then dad built on a small room for [Indecipherable] because--so she could have a room to herself. So it was, I guess a four room house. GS: And this was still six miles south? BB: Right. GS: Did the kids have to share beds? BB: Oh yeah, three to a bed (Laughter) GS: What were your favorite toys as a child? BB: I don' ; t know, we played house we just did everything. GS: Did you make most of your toys or did you have store bought toys or? BB: We didn' ; t have many store bought toys. We played house, like we played house with broken dishes, pieces of broken dishes. And we played hopscotch, my brother had a pocket knife and you' ; d throw that--we played marbles, tin can shinny, and you saved your--we very seldom got ahold of a tin can, but when you did you saved it to play hockey with. Then you' ; d play hockey with the tin can and you' ; ve got sticks out in the woods to hit it with. GS: How fun! Out in the pasture probably BB: Yeah GS: Okay you' ; ve kinda already told me this, but if--case it triggers anything else, it says " ; What role did your mother play in the home?" ; BB: Well she was the boss. GS: And she was pretty much everything. She was the provider wasn' ; t she? BB: She was everything GS: Cause with your dad being off in a hospital, she had to shoulder it all. Did she get any help from relatives? BB: Once in a while when she was--no from relatives, but we didn' ; t have any relative around there, but when she was pregnant, or just had a baby, she would hire Missy Shepard (ph), a black lady, who lived down at the depot and she would iron for mom till some of us got older, you know. And then Bill and I, my brother, we did ever except when it was harvest time, she would hire somebody to help us, you know. Well we didn' ; t--we made some molasses, Bill and I did all of that except that' ; s why John got attached to horses because we had to ride the horse turn the table, you know. GS: So did you grow your own sorghum? BB: Oh yes, and he used to love to ride the horses, he' ; s just about three years old, and that' ; s why he loved horses. But we bailed our own hay, we got people that had machines would loan them and they would loan us their hay bailer and it was scary because I put the hay in the trolley, whatever it was, and Bill put the blocks in, and you had to put enough hay in there for a block. And if you got caught in there, some people got damaged getting caught. And a horse turned that too and it just kept going, and you didn' ; t get your hand out in time you' ; re in big trouble. GS: Yeah that would be scary work. You had to stay on top of things and not goof off BB: Nope GS: What kind of stove did your mom cook on? BB: A big wood stove, wood cook stoves had a warming place on the right side and then--what' ; s the other one for? GS: Burners BB: Burners GS: Did you and your brothers have to take care of getting the wood for the stove? BB: Absolutely, we cut wood and we got and we got into more fights for accusing each other for riding the saw GS: (Laughter) Now what does it mean by ' ; riding the saw' ; ? BB: Well, he' ; s on one end it, you' ; re on the other. GS: Uh-huh BB: And if you don' ; t do your part ; the other guy has to do the part. GS: I see, I see. BB: You get kinda slow or lazy, you' ; d be riding the saw. GS: Yeah you don' ; t want somebody riding the saw when you' ; re working. What are your--what are some of the normal means that you had? BB: Oh, we raised everything we ate, and mom was a wonderful cook and had on the small cabinets, she had--I don' ; t know. But we had cornbread and beans of course, but we had always had meat, we had always had pork and chicken. GS: Who did your butchering for ya? BB: We did it. GS: Did your mom butcher? BB: No, she ground the meat and the sausage. GS: But I mean as far as killing the animal and everything, who did that? BB: Well usually a hard man, what you did you put the hog in a pen by himself to fatten him up before you get read to kill him. Somebody went and got a big sheet of tin, and then we fed him and when he had his head down, this guy would hit him in the head with a sledgehammer to kinda knock him out, and while he was not doing-- then somebody else jumped on his back and cut his throat, and then we let him bleed out and then put him on the sheet and took him to the house where people had already got their water in the-- boiling, wash the kettle, and dug a hole in the ground and buried half of the barrel, you put the water in the barrel and just get all the hair off of it. And you know, I never could-- and then you start scraping the hair off of it and pull it out of the barrel and scrape the hair off of him--but I never could do the head because those eyes would be looking at you weird GS: Oh yeah that' ; d be hard BB: I couldn' ; t do the head GS: That would sure be hard. Okay now you mentioned before we started the interview about a hog wallow, what is a hog wallow? BB: No just a wallow GS: Oh, just a wallow. BB: Yeah GS: Okay, what' ; s a wallow? BB: It' ; s a buffalo wallow. GS: Okay BB: There' ; s one, I guess it' ; s still out there, but when I was a kid, it was on the west side of the barn out in the pasture. And it was completely-- absolutely round, and it was-- I don' ; t know how big, big enough for a buffalo. And it wasn' ; t but about maybe four inches or maybe six inches deep, it wasn' ; t very deep at all. But the bottom of it was coal black, and nothing grew in it, not one weed grew in it. GS: Wow BB: And so I asked my grandmother about it, and she said that black was the oil off of buffalo hides where they would rub [Inaudible] GS: Oh my goodness, really? BB: Yeah, and when I was a teenager, I went over there, might have been after I was married, but anyway I was over and there were a few springs of grass growing through it for the first time, and I don' ; t know what it looks like now but like I said, about two weeks later I thought about writing that for an article in the paper about two-- and I thought well nobody will believe it ' ; cause nobody heard of that-- of a buffalo wallow. And so I saw a buffalo heard on the news and it showed this hog, this-- buffalo and a hog and a buffalo wallow and it was doing just like my grandmother said it was even rubbing its heads and just rubbing and turnin' ; over and just rubbing all of its body in that. GS: I' ; ve never heard of such a thing, that' ; s really interesting BB: Well I saw it so-- but I believe my grandmother saw it, you know, she saw a bunch of those. And-- but I didn' ; t figure anybody else would believe it, and I couldn' ; t prove anything so. GS: But there it was in a movie so evidently other people have seen it BB: [Inaudible] GS: Did you shop for groceries? You said most of the food you grew on your own farm, but I' ; m sure there' ; s some stuff that you bought. BB: In the fall mom bought a hundred-pound sack of sugar and that had to last us all winter GS: Wow BB: And to the next summer, ' ; bout a year I guess. And when we ran out of [Indecipherable], well we made our own meal when we needed meal dad would, when he was home, he wasn' ; t-- me and my brother would fix mom up with a sack of corn, we' ; d grind out corn and then send it in and they' ; d grind it into cornmeal GS: And you had a grinder to do that with? BB: Yeah GS: Did you have to turn it manually or with a horse or? BB: Yeah, no no no. GS: Manually? BB: It was- you put your corn in your thing like this and-- GS: So it was a small handheld type grinder BB: Yeah not-- not small but it was a grinder. GS: Okay, okay. And you' ; ve told me mostly about daily chores I think. So-- and you' ; ve owned livestock and you did your butchering so we got that. What kind of clothes did you wear? BB: Well, we got a new dress for Easter, and mom made the rest of our clothes. And, ' ; course I wore-- my brother would outgrow his overalls so I' ; d take them GS: Yeah BB: ' ; Cus I was always outside all the time, and-- GS: Were you a tomboy Bunny? BB: I was a boy GS: (Laughter) BB: I just filled the place of a boy GS: Uh-huh BB: And I was never in the house except the evening-- or asleep GS: What about your sister, did she do housework or outside work? BB: No, my oldest sister, she was such a lady and one-time mom told us she thought she was-- I was already milking, I started milking I think like six or seven years old, and she told us she-- maybe you should go to the barn and help you know, and so she took off for the barn, she came back to the house crying, and mom asked her what was wrong and she said " ; That old cow looked at me" ; GS: (Laughter) BB: I never saw her anywhere near the barn after that. GS: I love that, what about shoes? Did you wear shoes all the time or did you go barefoot a lot? BB: We went barefoot a lot, but we-- we bought shoes in the fall for school, but if you outgrew ' ; em you' ; re in trouble. And then by high school, I had some kind of moccasin type, and I know my heels hung out about that far out of the back ' ; cause I, you know, outgrown them GS: Yup, yeah. And that probably wasn' ; t unusual, you probably didn' ; t stick out that way BB: Oh everybody else was- GS: Was in the same boat, weren' ; t they? BB: Yeah GS: What about friends? Who did you play with? BB: Oh, uh Tibbons had an oil lease about half a mile from our house, half a mile south. And my grandfather built the first tool house a mile south of iron post, and it was of logs and it burned down, ' ; course they burned wood for heat. And then they built one of boards, and then when Tibbons got this oil, they built a brick schoolhouse down there, and they had a croquet court on this lease, it was sixteen families there at one time. GS: Oh my. BB: And they had a flaming torch all the time, and so we kids would go over there and play until after it got dark, went and got dark, you know. But I just had plenty of things to play with. GS: What were some of your favorite games that y' ; all played? I think you kinda talked to me about that earlier already. BB: Oh, well when I got to be in the seventh-- eighth grade or something, they had-- they called it swinging parties, and it was really square dancing but we didn' ; t know it GS: Oh okay! BB: But you-- everybody sang the songs and it was really square dancing, but I didn' ; t realize that until after I was married and joined the square dance club. But it was swinging parties and we played those, and we played croquet and basketball and-- GS: Did you join the square dance club that was in Bristow? BB: Yeah GS: What years were you in that? BB: Oh it was the year of the first western heritage days, and I don' ; t remember when that was GS: 50' ; s or 60' ; s? BB: No, it wasn' ; t in the 60' ; s I think. I' ; d say in the 40' ; s GS: Oh really? BB: Well seems like I was-- I don' ; t know how old I' ; d be. GS: That' ; s okay, that' ; s okay. Let' ; s see. BB: With the round up club they had, you know, square dancing. After the rodeos and all GS: Oh how fun BB: Yeah, we had a lot of fun GS: Do you remember the first time you heard a radio? BB: No not really GS: Did you have a radio in your house? BB: Yes, with a battery. And dad-- they just listened to it for the news, except when Joe Louis (ph) was gonna fight and of course I loved anything tomboy, and so me and my dad would hear the Joe Louis fights and then mom led us-- when the grand the Grand Ole Opry came into be on Saturday nights, she let us hear the Grand Ole Opry. Well then after that we would play Grand Ole Opry and that' ; s a hard hand taught me how to play the guitar when I was nine years old, and then we' ; d play like we were Grand Ole Opry and one by one I taught my brother John to play the guitar, and my sister she wasn' ; t very interested in it when I started playing the fiddle. Anyway, got them all together, and only two kids-- two grandkids are following the music tradition and (Muffled noises) they' ; re good. Little John, he plays the fiddle really good. GS: Oh he does? BB: And little Joe, Bobby' ; s boy, he plays the guitar and he plays with a band occasionally GS: Well how wonderful. And so you play? BB: Yeah I learned to play everything. And I keep thinking I' ; ll take time to learn to play the piano, that' ; s all I think I could handle. Playing guitar and all that you' ; ve got to build calluses on your hand GS: I' ; ve tried, it' ; s not pleasant BB: No it takes time to build that. Well this finger used to be, it' ; s still kind of lopsided GS: Yeah BB: Because of a callus on it. But I' ; ve still got all kinds of musical instruments in there, but what I' ; m gonna do is [Indecipherable]. But I' ; d love to have time to-- GS: Mess with them BB: At least play the piano better [Inaudible] GS: What about a TV, do you remember the first TV you saw? BB: Not really GS: Do you remember the first TV you watched in the house when your family got a TV or when you got a TV? BB: My family never had a TV, they didn' ; t even have running water or electricity or anything else. Yeah, it was accurate I guess, we built our house without a television, so GS: So you say you didn' ; t have running water, did you have a well and you had to haul the water or did you have a pump outside that you hauled it from? BB: We had a well with a bucket, and that was my job to draw the wash water every Monday GS: Oh my! BB: And I had a twenty-one-inch waist, and I think that' ; s why because pulling on that rope, you know. GS: Yup BB: But we had that for a long time, then we got a pump. And we-- I don' ; t know when we got, I don' ; t remember when we got electricity. Mom finally got a kerosene stove GS: Now when I did another interview of the Indian lady, Conasiny (ph) Tiger BB: [Indecipherable] that' ; s what we called her GS: Okay, which means grandmother BB: Mhm GS: She said that when I interviewed about Conasiny (ph), she said that her grandmother was the first to have electricity taken out there so that might be maybe when your family got electricity. BB: It was after we were married GS: Yeah, ok. BB: Yeah I' ; ll tell you something about Conasiny (ph), my mother went to school with her children GS: Okay! BB: And she' ; s-- I won' ; t tell you that because [Inaudible] but anyway, Bill in 44' ; died. He was some kind of a chief I guess, I can' ; t remember. But they just lived through the woods from us, and they celebrated his funeral a week, and all night every night beating the drums and yelling and stuff, and us kids were scared stiff. GS: ' ; Cus you had never heard that before, had you? BB: Well no you could hear them through the woods and we could-- GS: Your imaginations ran wild, didn' ; t they? BB: Yeah, it was wild. GS: Okay you mentioned your grandfather earlier built the first school. Tell me about your grandparents. First tell me their names. BB: Well his name was Foster William, William-- William Orange Foster (ph). He was from-- shoot I can' ; t think of it. GS: That' ; s okay BB: But anyway, he and my grandmother were-- my grandmother had lived up there when she was little, but they lived in Farmersville, Texas and they got married in Farmersville, Texas. My grandmother' ; s dad was in church and he picked her up in a buggy and they eloped. And then they wanted to come to Oklahoma, and they came in a covered wagon, and they stopped through Shawnee town, which no longer exists, but it was down somewhere near Shawnee. And he had a friend a mile west of Iron Post that ran-- had a dairy, and the friend told him that he could work for him, so they lived in a dugout on the east side of their house till he could buy some land. And my grandfather bought-- they had a, Indians had an auction and he bought land from the Indians and I can' ; t remember but it was, he didn' ; t pay much of anything, seemed like a dollar for ten acres [Indecipherable] GS: Wow BB: Bought forty-five, a forty acres we added on the five acres. And that was next to the [Indecipherable] place, and-- GS: Who is Conasiny Tiger, right? BB: Yeah, but we always called her that, you know GS: Uh-huh BB: And that-- it connected her land and that' ; s where my grandmother got the five oil wells. GS: Woah, okay BB: Yeah [Indecipherable] was the richest person in the country GS: Yeah, that' ; s what I' ; ve heard. So what was your grandmothers full name with her maiden name, if you know. BB: Yeah it was Nettie Alice Foster GS: Okay, do you know what her maiden name was? BB: Foster GS: Well she married a Foster BB: Yeah GS: But her maiden name was Foster too? BB: Yes GS: Okay. Do you have any memory of your great grandparents? BB: No GS: Yeah BB: My grandmother would be 145 or 46 years old, she was-- GS: Long time ago BB: Yeah GS: Who' ; s the oldest person in your family that you can remember from when you were a little kid? BB: My grandmother Foster GS: Okay, and do you have any special memories about your grandmother Foster that we haven' ; t mentioned already? BB: Oh yeah, well I would do my chores, she-- her husband, she married a man older than her, he was-- died at 42 I think. And she lived by herself out there half a mile east of us, and I would do my chores of a night and eat my supper and then I' ; d walk to her house a half a mile and spent the night with her, and then walked back the next morning, do my chores then go to school, you know. But I was with her so much and she' ; s the one that' ; s told me so many tales about the Buffalo wallow and all this-and-that and she had a real interesting life. GS: Do you remember how-- how so it was interesting? I mean-- BB: Well yeah, she loved-- that' ; s where I got my love of flowers I guess because she didn' ; t allow a weed to grow in her entire yard, it was rows of flowers GS: Wow BB: And you weren' ; t allowed to play in her yard, you could play in the driveway, that was the only place you could play. But we would work outside and feed the chickens and do chores and everything and then in the evening when it was still clear outside, she always had a quilt out and she taught me to quilt when I was just a kid. GS: Wonderful! BB: And we would quilt till the night, and I' ; ve got one of her quilts she gave me for a wedding gift, and her son-- abacko (ph)-- tobacco used to come in little bags and men had to roll their own cigarettes GS: Uh-huh BB: And her son smoked cigarettes. She saved those little tobacco sacks and she washed them and then she dyed them and she made quilts out of them GS: Well how wonderful! BB: And I' ; ve got a quilt that she gave me for my-- I don' ; t know how old it was when she gave it to me for my wedding gift, but it' ; s made out of pink and something-- anyways got pink squares. She cut the sacks into patterns, you know, and then we would save our best cleanest cotton for her to-- to pad her quilts with. So it' ; s padded with homemade cotton GS: Wow BB: And I' ; ve still got it. GS: Oh, that is so wonderful! So special! BB: I' ; m thinking of giving it to the museum GS: Oh isn' ; t there a-- I mean as much as we would love to have it, isn' ; t there a family member that it should go to? BB: No I' ; m the only one that sews so-- GS: Oh. Okay, now we' ; re gonna-- BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Now we' ; re gonna head off to school BB: Oh (Laughter) GS: Where did you go to school first? BB: Iron Post GS: Iron Post, and that was how many miles south of Bristow? BB: Would' ; ve been 7 miles south and a mile west. GS: Okay, who was your teacher? BB: Mrs. Howell (ph) GS: And did you go to first grade there and all through high school? BB: No through the 8th grade, and that' ; s as far as it went. But I' ; ll tell you about my first day in school. Mrs. Howell is so sweet, and you came in the door and she would greet you and then assign you a seat, and of course we knew better than to, you know, get out of line GS: Oh yeah BB: But there was a boy, I won' ; t tell you his name because he' ; s got kin folks living here. But he was-- his family was a real rough family, and the boys had two older brothers and they just came to school to fight and cause trouble. Well he strolled in one morning whistling, you didn' ; t whistle then or talk out loud period without permission. He strolled in whistling and Mrs. Howell asked him, says " ; Good morning Bobby" ; she says " ; How are you this morning?" ; " ; Fine" ; she says " ; Bobby do you know your ABC' ; s?" ; he says " ; Hell no, how you expect me to know em, I just now got here" ; GS: Ohh! BB: And he later became a mayor of some little town in California GS: (Laughter) Oh, that' ; s a good story. BB: Scared me to death, I thought ' ; man he' ; s gonna get it' ; GS: Did he get it? BB: No, he didn' ; t. That was the first day of school, she was good to everybody I guess GS: Did-- did all the different ages go to school in the same room-- BB: No GS: Or were there grade levels? BB: There was a first and second graders and-- I think it was first, second, and third. Anyway, fourth and fifth and a sixth, seventh, and eighth. GS: Okay, so they did have them separated a little bit by levels BB: Yeah, three different rooms [Inaudible] GS: Okay BB: And we-- when before school started, everybody gathered out in front of the school house on a wall sort of, and we saluted the flag and we had the Lord' ; s prayer GS: How wonderful BB: And uh-- GS: That' ; s good. How many hours did you go to school? BB: I think it was from 9 -- 4 GS: Ooh, okay. And did you walk there or? BB: No we walked unless it was raining and then mom would take us. GS: And how-- what would she take you in? BB: The government gave the veterans-- the WWI veterans a bonus, and it was either six or eight hundred dollars, and they bought a new Pontiac, which was-- GS: Oh how wonderful! BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Was that a wooden building or brick or-- what kind of building was it? BB: It was brick GS: Okay, did they have any clubs or organizations or anything there? It' ; s awfully small BB: Yeah, we had 4H club GS: Okay BB: And the women had a Home Demonstration Club I think they called it GS: Did you go to any of those? BB: To the 4H club GS: I figured that, okay. Did they use the school for anything else like church or anything? BB: We had Sun-- my mom and Mrs. Bourget had Sunday School every Sunday, but we didn' ; t have church often, just when we could find a preacher. And the girl that married Joe Isle (ph) the last time GS: Uh-huh BB: Her dad was a preacher and when she was a little girl, they had several kids and they always came to our house for dinner and how mom made dinner for so many people and what she had to cook, I don' ; t know. But we had that-- but we put on plays every so often to raise money for Christmas GS: Oh, uh-huh BB: And-- and I know I was always part of it, and I think I can remember a poem I was supposed to say and then I was supposed to bow and of course everything was boards, and I think the poem that said " ; My momma' ; s little girl, don' ; t you think I' ; m sweet? Something--" ; and then I was supposed to bow and I bowed too hard and nearly broke my knee GS: (Laughter) You' ; re always doing something Bunny BB: Lemme turn on the air conditioner, I don' ; t have it on GS: Oh okay BB: Hold on a minute GS: Do I need to move that seat? BB: No GS: There we go ; there we' ; re running now. Okay I' ; ll sit it right back here and we' ; ll finish. We-- we took a break to turn the air conditioning on, but we' ; re back now. And we were talking about school, did your mom pack a lunch for you? BB: Yes, that' ; s the only-- I didn' ; t-- I didn' ; t taste homemade bread till I was in the 8th grade GS: Wow BB: Yeah, we had-- we had a sixteen-pound lard bucket, or was it-- was it that eight pound? It would' ; ve had to be an eight pound, big ol' ; tin bucket. And we all put our lunches in that, and bless our hearts she' ; d send a napkin, you know, mom was kind of proper GS: Aw BB: And we had biscuit sandwiches and we had sausage sandwiches and we had ham sandwiches and we had a big orchard and we always had a piece of fruit, but we-- she never-- we never had sweets except on Sunday. She would bake cakes and pie on Sundays. GS: Well that sugar had to last all year BB: Yeah, that' ; s right. But this girl, her dad worked for Tibbons and they had money, you know, and she would bring sandwiches with store bought bread and she wanted-- everybody loved the biscuit sandwiches and so she traded with me one day, and that' ; s the first time I tasted that. But there was one family that they had a huge orchard and all they brought was fried pies. They didn' ; t have money for anything else GS: They ate fried pies for lunch? BB: Mhm, but they didn' ; t always do that because a bunch of us was anxious to trade GS: Yeah well sure you were! BB: Yeah, hey and later they started a program, the government furnishing food for kids, you know, and I still got my tin cup, we-- each kind had a tin cup and you had to bring your own spoon and that' ; s what you got, a tin cup full of stuff, macaroni and tomatoes, I never will eat any more of those. GS: (Laughter) BB: And soup, but whatever was in that tin cup is what you got. GS: Wow BB: The boys could get seconds, but the girls couldn' ; t GS: That' ; s just not fair BB: Well, and we had-- we had a drinking water bucket set in the corner in the hallway where everybody could have access to it and we all drank out of the same [Indecipherable] GS: This isn' ; t on my list, but did you have any other cultural people attend your school, or was it a strictly a white school? BB: It was a white school. There was a black school just about a mile and a half east of us. GS: Do you remember the name of the black school? BB: No GS: That' ; s okay, we' ; ve been talking about the schools lately BB: Well I' ; ve got it down someplace because I knew all the people. GS: Was your teacher very strict? BB: Yes GS: What would happen if you misbehaved, what would she do? BB: Well she' ; d send you to the office and you' ; d get a whoopin' ; , or if it wasn' ; t very bad you' ; d have to stand in the corner with your whole-- stand in the corner or at the black board with your nose in the hole, or sit on the stool in the corner. GS: Okay, did you-- did they have a Duns cap? BB: Yeah GS: Did they really? BB: Yeah. GS: Wow. Okay did you-- you already talked about your mom had Sunday school in the school building, did they attend church anywhere else when you were a child? BB: No, and I taught my first Sunday school lesson when I was sixteen, taught the first graders GS: In that school building? BB: At Iron Post, yeah. GS: What were Christmases like as a child? BB: Oh, they were great! We didn' ; t have wrapping paper, we didn' ; t have money for it, you know. And we-- seems like we got a dollar for-- to buy with. But there' ; s a big joke there that if you can get jigsaw puzzles for a dollar, for 25cents, either 25cents or a nickel, I think it was 25cents, but there was all six of us to buy for, you know, and so we would-- GS: I' ; s just checking making sure it' ; s still working, it is BB: We would buy our brothers Bob and John, they just hated jigsaw puzzles, but my sister and I we just loved to work them. So every Christmas we' ; d buy them a jigsaw puzzle, and well-- to tell you what you wanted, you know. They, Tibbons, furnished a great big Christmas tree for the Iron Post school, and with the money we made off of putting on plays at Gypsy and Iron Post and whatever, they bought candy and they made they a sack for every family whose children went to school at Iron Post. It had an apple and an orange and package of gum and miscellaneous candy, and some nuts, it was real nice. GS: And it was one per family? BB: No, it was each child GS: Oh okay BB: Oh yeah we looked forward to that, but nobody wrapped their gifts and-- oh and we had Pie Suppers to raise money for Christmas too. But they put them in and under the Christmas tree, well every year me and my sister we got dolls, I still got my dolls that I got when I was 12 years old. GS: Aw BB: Mine would have blue dress and Peggy' ; s would have a pink dress, and the boys got guns and I wanted a gun so bad GS: I figured that (Laughter) BB: But I never did get one, like I said 12 years old got a-- we were still playing with dolls, you know, 12 years old. But when mom made the boys play with us half the day and the girls the other half of day, play house-- girls games and vice versa, so I got to use the guns, you know, half hour of the day. Oh and back to the puzzles, the boys hated them and we loved to work them and my brother John died at 75 I think it was and I bought him a puzzle every year, for him and Bob both for Christmas and then Bob would just get so mad after he got about, oh 18 years old or something, he would-- he' ; s gonna throw it in the trash and then he learned I was putting money and stuff in it. But this year was Bobs birthday in March and he hasn' ; t been here, but he loved John Wayne and I ordered a book of John Wayne and his life, and he came home and I found a puzzle box that the book would just fit in and I wrapped it and then I gift wrapped it real nice, and he hasn' ; t been here yet, he' ; s coming Saturday and he' ; ll get his Christmas present GS: (Laughter) BB: And when he unwraps that and sees it' ; s a puzzle, he' ; ll give me the dirtiest look GS: Surely he' ; ll know you' ; ve got something else inside of it BB: He' ; ll see that box, puzzle box and he' ; ll just know he got another puzzle GS: I love that ; I just love that. Do you remember going to any weddings when you were younger? BB: No GS: Okay we' ; re gonna skip now to medical care. BB: Uh-oh GS: What was medical care like when you were a kid? BB: Well there wasn' ; t any really. I broke my collarbone and didn' ; t go to the doctor, you can feel it. GS: Oh my word BB: When I was 19, I went to the doctor with the flu and he said " ; When did you break your collarbone?' ; well I knew when I broke it but I didn' ; t tell him about it. ' ; Ol Dr. King, his mother and my mother-- my grandmother were good friends and he took care of us and every fall, he would mix up liniments and it was just his own secret and bring it out and it' ; d be a quart in a big bottle and mom called it horse liniments. That boy would cure your colds and whatever. GG: Wow BB: And he would bring his mother and leave her at my grandmother' ; s house so they could tear all the neighbors apart GS: Do you remember his black powder that he used to give people? BB: Oh well I had-- I was-- it was actually, we were married and I was in Texas and I had a goiter and they wanted to operate and I said " ; No I' ; ll, I' ; d rather see my doctor at home" ; and I-- and he gave me, I' ; ve still got it, but a little compact about that big that' ; s full of something sad, but looked just like axel grease, black. And he said " ; Lay down, rub this on that place on your neck and stay there for an hour" ; that was during the noon hour, " ; And do get up, just lay there" ; and I said Ok, and it just got rid of it. GS: Wow BB: It was his own mixture, and I talked to his nurse later and I did his books and one time we visited, like one time I asked him, I said " ; How come you been married so many times Dr. King?" ; He says " ; Well, my daddy said it wasn' ; t meant for man to live alone, and I believe him" ; He was a mess, he was a sweetheart GS: I went to Dr. King when I was little BB: Really? I just came across a clipping of, I' ; m gonna see if they' ; ll put it in the paper about old time doctors and it' ; s about him GS: Oh yeah, we need that! BB: It' ; s real interesting, it' ; s real interesting GS: Yeah BB: The buggy, horse and buggy doctor or something but it' ; s the title GS: How wonderful BB: He was a great old man, you couldn' ; t read his writing GS: And the women usually gave birth at home, didn' ; t they? BB: Yes [Inaudible] GS: Were you ever hospitalized? I don' ; t think you were-- BB: Not that I remember GS: Since you broke your collarbone and didn' ; t get it fixed BB: No not until after I got married, or you know. GS: Okay let' ; s skip now to Bristow, and we' ; re still in early childhood here, so what was Bristow like in your early childhood? Did you get to come to Bristow often? BB: We came on Saturdays a lot ' ; cus we brought stuff-- vegetables and stuff to the poor farm, and-- GS: Did you sell them to the poor farm or give them to the poor far? BB: No we just gave them to the poor farm. But I know where the, it' ; s the dollar store on main street, what' ; s the name of that store? GS: Dollar General BB: Yeah Dollar General. Well around the corner, there was a bar and we would try to park across the street because every night there' ; d be a fight at the bar and they' ; d take it outside, you know. But we would sit in the car and watch the people go by or walk up and down the street and then we' ; d hope to see somebody we knew. GS: Were was the poor farm located back then Bunny? BB: Well, it-- I don' ; t, I can' ; t remember exactly but it was south of town and west off of the highway on the other side. GS: South on 48? BB: Mhm. GS: How did most people travel in your childhood? BB: Well, my mother still had a buggy, my grandmother still had a buggy, but we always had a car. GS: Good, yeah. But were a lot-- were there kind of a mixture of cars and horses and buggy on the road? BB: Yeah GS: Okay BB: And when you took cotton to town, of course you took it by wagon GS: Yeah BB: And they always let--a hard hand would take to town and my brother Bill always got to go, and I picked the same amount of cotton he did and I never could understand why they wouldn' ; t let me go to town too GS: Aww BB: And then I, now I realize that-- GS: It wasn' ; t safe BB: Women didn' ; t do that GS: Yeah, yeah. What kind of businesses were in Bristow? What were some of the biggest businesses? BB: Well JC Penny because that' ; s where we bought what clothes we bought, and at Strongs (ph) they had a shoe store and all, but they had a thing that you stepped on to get the size of your shoe, it was real interesting, and-- GS: Was it like an x-ray machine? BB: No, don' ; t think so. It just-- might' ; ve been, it just showed up what size you wore. Might' ; ve been x-ray because there was a light under it GS: Huh BB: But-- GS: Or they maybe just called it that and it wasn' ; t BB: Yeah, Hamburger King and-- gee I can' ; t remember. GS: Did you ever eat at the Hamburger King as a child? BB: Not as a child, nuh-uh. We never ate in town. GS: What kind of clothes did people wear? How did they dress? BB: Well, girls and women wore dresses GS: How long were the dresses? BB: Well some of them were back- way back when, well when school teachers couldn' ; t wear anything, it had to be just above the ankle. And my grandmother boarded two school teachers who taught at Iron Post, so I can' ; t remember that. But they were below the knee, I' ; d say, and my mother was-- had a lot of pride. She wouldn' ; t go to town without her hat, her corset, and purse GS: Aww BB: Everybody wore a corset I guess GS: And did she mostly make her clothes too? She made-- BB: Yeah, we bought feed sacks, feed at Cantrell' ; s feed store and if we-- mom was wanting a dress, she' ; d buy two sacks alike to get the print. GS: Enough material BB: They were printed, yeah. Most of them were made out of them feed sacks. GS: Did you ever come into Bristow for holiday events, or did Bristow have holiday events back then? BB: I don' ; t remember coming in, of course that was seven miles to drive over a rough road GS: Yeah, yeah. What did you want to be when you grew up? BB: Everything (Laughter) BB: Mostly a hunter and fisherman. Me and my brother John, we started hunting and fishing together when we were both super little. But when we grew up, we wanted to go to Alaska-- live in Alaska and hunt and trap fish. GS: Did you ever make it to visit Alaska? BB: No, made it close but we once lived in [Indecipherable] North Dakota fifty miles from the Canadian border GS: Aw BB: That' ; s close as I got. GS: What was your first job Bunny? BB: Piggly Wiggly Grocery store GS: Where was it? BB: It was on the west side of main street down from, it was in the block south of, can' ; t even think of what' ; s there now, sixth street or something. You know where the bank was. GS: Spirit or Community? BB: First National GS: Okay BB: On the corner of main street, it was down south of there. That was during my junior and senior year, and then I went on to work with Maxine Jenkins at Lions Café as a soda jerk. GS: Now just for generations that have never heard of soda jerk, what was a soda jerk? I know but let' ; s hear it explained BB: I don' ; t really know myself, but it was when you made sodas, soda pop for people, you know. Had a tab. GS: Did you do the ice cream too? BB: Don' ; t remember that. GS: What kind of jobs have you had in your life? You' ; ve said you' ; ve had several. BB: Maybe. First I took typing and short handing in high school. My first job after I graduated from high school was a friend got me on at Hamburger Kings, she was, I can' ; t remember his name [Indecipherable], but she managed it-- GS: Was it Horainy (ph) that had it or was it Maxis? Maxis had it first, and then he sold it to Johnny Horainy (ph) BB: It was Johnny GS: Okay BB: Yeah, and she-- all she did was boss me and I did all the work and she was making twelve dollars a week and I was making ten GS: Aww BB: And I thought " ; This is ridiculous" ; well my girls that I graduated with had all gone on to Tulsa and got jobs, so I said " ; well this is a mess" ; of course I wanted to be at home, and so I quit and went to Tulsa. GS: Yup it' ; s still running BB: And got a job as a typist, me and Wanda Sanders at the candy building, and from there I got a job with a wholesale drug company and that was a riot, and I worked over night as a curb hawk for drive in and that was the money I earned to come home on, be there by bus or train. GS: Now come home, where were you? BB: Back to Bristow, in Tulsa GS: Oh okay BB: I was in Tulsa. Yeah and one night we girls decided that we were gonna [Inaudible] and we decided we would just-- the soldiers were crowded up there, they were saying you' ; re in the big crowd, we thought we' ; d go shopping, in the shop to see what was going on. And we noticed all of the girls had their pant legs cuffed, ya know, so we thought that was in style, of course we was in the country and didn' ; t know anything and so we rolled our cuff lengths up. Well some soldiers joined us, you know, but they didn' ; t start walking with us and talking and so they said something about a hotel room, we didn' ; t know what they was talking about, and they said well how come you' ; ve got your pants legs rolled up, that' ; s what that means GS: Oh my word, I never heard that! BB: Well we rolled our pants legs cuff down so fast it' ; s make your head spin GS: So if a girl was easy, so to speak, they rolled their jeans up and the guy knew to take them out BB: Right GS: Oh my word, I never knew that. That' ; s interesting BB: I didn' ; t know it either (Laughter) GS: You learned real quick though, didn' ; t you? BB: And the first-- on the first job I got, was just typing, and I had interviewed, you know, been interviewed you know, and well the first time Wanda and I, we' ; d just never been around stop lights GS: Now who' ; s Wanda? BB: Wanda Sanders, she was my best friend GS: Okay BB: And we were walking across the street, crossing the street and a car honked at us and we weren' ; t paying attention, you know when we had walked across the street, we got to work and to was our boss, we were crossing at a red light. And momma told us don' ; t get in a car with strange men, she said whatever you do don' ; t get in a car with strange men. Well, I was standing out in the rain one time waiting for the bus-- GS: Uh-huh BB: To get to work, and a car stopped. It was pouring down rain and he was honking, you know, I wouldn' ; t [Indecipherable] I looked the other way and kept waiting, and finally he drove on, well that was our boss too. I had-- it was always something like that going on with me GS: (Laughter) BB: And you had to ride-- we rode the train home and we couldn' ; t get a seat, you had to hold on because it' ; s so full of service men and people who couldn' ; t get a seat, and Tom, my oldest nephew, he-- of course his dad was killed in [Indecipherable] and he wanted a rabbit so bad, and you couldn' ; t get a rabbit in Bristow, so I bought him a rabbit from Tulsa and you weren' ; t supposed to take things like that on the train, so I hid it under my coat and I looked like I was pregnant and everybody was giving room for me, you know. And then another time he wanted a stick horse, so I bought him a stick horse, I [Indecipherable] everybody on that train, [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: On purpose or accidently? BB: No, accidentally because it was long, you know, it was sticking out from under my coat. I' ; ve always had a lot of fun, usually at my expense. GS: Okay I wanna know about when you met MerleBB: I knew him all my life, I guess. They played, you know, music for the Pie Suppers and everything, so we' ; d go in and hear them GS: Was he from the Iron Post area also? BB: No he was from down by-- well at first he was over on the east of Talaha (ph) [Indecipherable] GS: Okay BB: And then they moved to south of town, I think he went to school at Valentine maybe GS: Okay BB: And, but he-- I don' ; t know they might have had a bus running from Gypsy down there, but I never knew him until he was, you know, he was in school at Gypsy. GS: So did he ask you out on a first date? BB: No, they would come to him and Dilmore would come to that place on Tibbons lease, you know, where we had the games and all, and he would walk me home and there were a bunch of people on north of me that walked, we' ; d all walk together and he would walk me home. And he played the banjo, and his brother played the guitar at that time, and I wanted his brother to walk me home, but every time his brother would ask to walk me home, well Merle would intervene, he wouldn' ; t have it. Well I didn' ; t like Merle very well. But anyway, he never-- Merle never turned loose, and one time I told him, you know, I didn' ; t wanna see him anymore, I couldn' ; t run him off, and my sister and I in our old smoke house we made it into a bedroom for us, and mom, well she wasn' ; t well then, and we had an old wire couch that folded up that I [Inaudible]. And so us kids would play music out there, well Merle he would come and he left his banjo out there, and he would come up and he would play the banjo and I' ; d play the basket or guitar, and he' ; d get ready to leave and he' ; d say " ; You gonna kiss me goodnight?" ; I thought " ; I don' ; t kiss boys" ; . Peggy would say " ; Well I' ; ll kiss you Merle" ; So [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Now who' ; s Peggy? BB: My sister GS: Oh BB: Just younger than me GS: Okay BB: But one time he came to the house and he-- I didn' ; t let him stay he threatened to kill himself he had something in his hand, and I said " ; Well kill yourself if you want to" ; but he says " ; I' ; m not coming to see you, I' ; m coming to see Bobby" ; and he just kept coming to the house, you know. And then come to find out in later years, he told all the boys in High School that I dated [Indecipherable] just one or two or three, and well I' ; d get tickled, you know, sometimes I' ; d get tickled. I wouldn' ; t date him anymore. But he told them to lay of off me, you know, and if some- only way you knew somebody was coming to see you was going to show up because there' ; s no telephones or anything. And I remember Francis Wrestler had come to see me, and we were outside of course talking and Merle came up and he stayed till after he left. Uh he was-- I couldn' ; t get rid of him GS: So what did he do to finally win your heart? BB: Well, when I was 14 or 15, and Kenneth Mann had- that was when they were building ships for the war and paying good money, so Kenneth left school and went to California and told Merle that, you know, it' ; s a good deal out there. So Merle went, and he-- well Kenneth, they tried to get us girls to go with them and marry them, and Marie went ; she was just 15. GS: Oh my goodness BB: And I said " ; I don' ; t wanna get married" ; and I wasn' ; t about to take off with him, and I didn' ; t let boys kiss me. I didn' ; t want any, if they weren' ; t fun, forget it. And so Merle ended up sending me a set of rings, and I told mom " ; What am I to do with this?" ; I said " ; I don' ; t want them, I' ; m not gonna get married" ; and she said " ; Well if you don' ; t want them, send them back to him" ; so I did. And he- there was a peach orchard between the highway and their house, he had stopped there before he left trying to get me to marry him and I told him, I said " ; No, I' ; m not interested" ; And so after he was in the service and got out, he was in there for four years, and he got out, and we were going-- he came, of course to the house, and he was going to move down, I was with him to [Indecipherable] his house, well we stopped at the peach orchard, and I thought " ; Uh-oh" ; he pulled out those same rings, well what do you do? So, we got married GS: (Laughter) Not exactly sweeping you off your feet, was he? BB: Yeah and then after we moved to town, well you know back then the soldiers whistled at the girls and when we would go out, you know, any place, we had to go out to eat a hamburger because I didn' ; t cook, I didn' ; t have anything to cook with. And if somebody whistled at me, he' ; d say " ; wait here" ; and he' ; d be ready to fight ' ; em. GS: Oh my goodness BB: So I quit going out with him, I just quit going out with him. And come to find out, after he died, somebody, I can' ; t remember his name, he told me that Merle told those boys [Indecipherable] that they better keep their hands off of me. GS: He really was smitten by you Bunny BB: He' ; d kill me if I run around on him as they say. GS: Yeah sounds like it, what was your wedding like? BB: Well it was night,' ; course it was nice because I had to keep laughing. Well, he bought me a big bouquet and I was shaking and the leaves were rattling. GS: (Laughter) And that got you tickled BB: Well the preacher was my cousin and he didn' ; t look at me afraid he would laugh if I was looking. Didn' ; t look at him afraid he would laugh, but my daddy gave me away, and my sister, oldest sister was my bridesmaid, and Johnny, Nathans mother mother had a flower shop here and so [Indecipherable] his best man. And I was-- I had a date Saturday night before, and on Tuesday, Tuesday I had told him I would marry him. I felt sorry for him, he couldn' ; t even eat, you know, couldn' ; t keep food down his stomach, he just weighed 120 pounds GS: Oh my word BB: He lived on rations all those years and he couldn' ; t eat, and I felt so sorry for him so I thought " ; Well, I' ; ll marry him and get him on his feet then he can marry somebody else" ; and I had told him that on Tuesday night, Saturday night I had a date with somebody else, and I wasn' ; t about to give up the date, so I had a date. Anyway GS: Did you ever go to the bigger cities like Tulsa or Oklahoma City? BB: I don' ; t ever remember going to Oklahoma City till after I had Donna lived up there GS: Did you ever take the train back then? BB: No GS: Anywhere? BB: Just to Tulsa ; well yeah I was in Tulsa a lot, ' ; cus I worked up there GS: Yeah once you started working there BB: Yeah GS: Do you remember when, well no ' ; cus you were born that year so you wouldn' ; t have remembered when route 66 was built. BB: No GS: Okay, let' ; s go-- BB: I had two cousins that helped build the road to Slick from Bristow GS: I' ; m gonna skip some of these questions and ask you about your involvement with Western Heritage Days BB: Well, I helped-- I guess I helped get it started and all-- we were all working together. Merle, he learned to weld in the shipyards, you know, and Doy Cochran (ph) was a welder, he had his own business, and they were the special welders that built this arena in there where the chestcord (ph) is now. And, but with help from everybody, everybody was interested, and as they welded the pipes together, Warren, well shoot I can' ; t think of her name, he was a policeman GS: Hall, Freddie Hall? BB: No GS: No BB: Warren GS: I don' ; t know, that' ; s okay BB: But anyway we painted them, we painted them the same GS: And what did you do with them? BB: Well we painted the corrals ' ; cus they built them GS: Oh okay, for the rodeo? BB: Yeah. And uh-- GS: What about the parades and everything? Did you help with that? BB: Well not particularly. GS: What about that picture of you that we have when you' ; re all dressed up in your costume as a Saloon lady BB: Yeah GS: What about that? BB: Well if I was meeting a man on the street, he would' ; ve looked at me kind of questionably. And if he had on a hat, he would-- he would be smiling too. But I had a Gingham dress too, but that was the most popular. And one time at the end of the parade, I went to stand on the west side to watch the rest of the parade and Mr. Poston (ph), highly a religious man was there, but I standing kind of against the building about that far. But he looked at me like that and he scooted over GS: (Laughter) He thought you were the real thing, didn' ; t he? BB: Yeah, but what the funniest thing was, Merle had told me I was-- you know wore a dress one day then the other, the next day, and I was-- had that red dress on and so Merle told me he said " ; I' ; ll pay for your lunch if you meet me down at the J& ; J at 12 o' ; clock" ; and I said " ; okay" ; and I' ; d made my little, little bag, ya know, to match my dress and so he said, I told him I' ; d be there at 12 o' ; clock. Well, I was late and he says " ; How come you' ; re late?" ; and I had took a ten-dollar bill and had it changed into quarters and I just threw that on the table and I said " ; Well what do you think?" ; GS: (Laughter) BB: He just gave me a dirty look ; he knew I wouldn' ; t have been worth a quarter GS: Now you' ; ve told me some stories before about the-- some of the pranks and jokes you and Merle would play on each other. Your marriage was pretty much-- BB: Play GS: Play. Can you recall any of them? BB: Oh, that' ; s all you can do that, if you recall it it' ; s something. We were always at each other, we were trying to put something off on each other, and just like that quarter game. But, well for one thing he would-- he would, he was ornery. And one year for every fourth of July, all the family was at the house and the boys would go play golf and we had a big ice cream freezer and we' ; d make ice cream. Well his birthday was the twelfth of June and so he told me what he wanted for his birthday was an electric ice cream freezer, so I-- that' ; s what I bought him for his birthday, I had no idea what he was thinking. And the boys, Merle of course beat them all at golf so he didn' ; t have to turn the freezer but all the other guys took turns turning the freezer and it finally froze so hard that they had to quit. Well Merle came out of the house with his ice cream freezer and he says " ; boys look what I got for my birthday" ; I thought they were gonna kill him GS: Oh after they had made it the other way BB: Yeah GS: (Laughter) BB: Crazy thing GS: Oh my goodness BB: And then, oh one of the good times I got off on him, I was planting flowers along the fence and then we had a yard fence and then two strands of barbed wire above that, and he came up behind me and I didn' ; t know it and poked me with his ho or something, and I jumped and I jumped between those two barbed wire fences and my hair, of course I had long hair and it was all tangled up, and he was just dying laughing until he saw my head was bleeding. Then he started helping me get out, get untangled, you know. Well that was fine ; but wasn' ; t long after that that we had this 8-foot picture window in the living room that you could see clear down to the end of the road. And so he came in, took a bath, and he was in his shorts sitting in his chair, he was on this side of the window and I was over here, I could see down the road. And we were sitting there watching television and I had that table that' ; s-- that' ; s table for the old home, and I said " ; Oh gosh Merle here comes a car" ; and he jumped up and he jumped across that table and hit it and fell off of it, and he jumped up again and he took off down the hall (Laughter) BB: And pretty soon he came back dressed, you know, and he says " ; Who was it?" ; and I said " ; Oh it wasn' ; t anybody, I just thought it was somebody" ; he just gave me a dirty look. That' ; s how I got even with him. GS: That sounds like you sure did. Do you remember when Bristow was segregated? Do you have any memories of that? BB: No I don' ; t because we weren' ; t segregated, we had a family called Mason family and they had a lot of kids and they were poor. They picked our cotton every year, picked for but we had to pick too, but they picked for us. We [Indecipherable] a lot of cotton, but we-- we helped black people all we could. GS: Yeah BB: We didn' ; t-- but when we went to build the barn, it' ; s build on telephone poles that was disbanded, and Merle was trying to get one of them down the road to help him and he said he was afraid that he would lose his assistance from the government, so I had to help him. And I was up on top of one of those telephone poles. We were building it, and the poles were in the ground, but we were stretching woods across from one pole to the other. And I got on top of one of those telephone poles to be sure we got this board leveled, and he was gonna- looked down and he was about to poke me with a stick, I' ; d have fell off of that telephone pole. GS: Oh my goodness! BB: Crazy thing, and he would weld. He built our pens and everything and I would help him. And one time he tried- he was gonna hand me a red hot piece of pipe, you know. GS: Oh gosh that would' ; ve hurt BB: Yeah, you had to keep your eye on him! Of course he kept his eye on me too GS: I was gonna say I bet he had to keep his eye on you too BB: Yeah (Laughter) GS: Do you have any memories of the great depression? I know you were pretty small and-- BB: Yeah but all I remember is we were poor, you know. If we didn' ; t raise our food, we wouldn' ; t have had any food. GS: Did any of your-- was any of your family involved in any of the government assistant work programs? BB: No, but at one time the government at Iron Post, they sent beans home with each family according to the size of the family and we had six of us, we had a big stack of beans. Well, guess who had to do the carrying ' ; cus he' ; s biggest? And we quit-- we traded off some but I had to carry them mostly. And-- GS: I bet they got pretty heavy BB: They did after a mile GS: How far did you have to walk? BB: A mile. But I was always stout, you know. GS: Yeah BB: Working outside and everything GS: Do you remember any of the-- I know you said none of your family worked for the WPA, but do you remember coming into Bristow when they maybe built the amphitheater or when Mrs. Roosevelt came and dedicated it in the building? BB: Well mom would bring us to town like there was somebody, Landon I think it was, ran for president. He' ; d come on the train and talk on the back of the train, and she would bring us to town to see those people, she was always very good with-- GS: Political binded BB: Yeah political binded. But I don' ; t remember that GS: Okay, okay. BB: I might' ; ve come, but I don' ; t remember it. GS: She was [Indecipherable]. Was she involved in politics in any other way? BB: Well, I don' ; t know if she was always-- she, there was a mayor Brong (ph). Anyway, she always came to their meetings, you know, she was always interested in the government, whatever was going on so I guess she was interested in politics. GS: Did any of your family members ever run for office? BB: No GS: Did your mother mention when women got suffrage when they got the right to vote, anything about that? Now you' ; ve mentioned the 40' ; s, what year did you graduate? Well, what year did you-- well let me just skip that part. What are your memories of WWII? BB: Well, foil. I' ; m reminded of that every day, I just hate to waste a piece of foil because we collected foil, they needed it for armory. And even chewing gum, each stick was wrapped in foil, and boy we-- if somebody was chewing gum, we would watch and the one that had the biggest ball of foil at a certain time, we' ; d turn them in every so often. And the one that had the biggest one got a package of gum GS: Well BB: I remember that. GS: That' ; s the way they got kid to recycle. BB: Yeah, and I' ; ve got some things about that over there to get toothpaste or something, you had to bring an empty tube. GS: Do you remember your ration books that your mother had? BB: Yeah, yeah. Sugar and gasoline and everything, but mama Foster got a ration book and she didn' ; t go anyplace so we got to use hers GS: Well that helped a big family BB: Yeah, yeah it did. GS: Did she live very far away from you? BB: Half a mile GS: Half a mile, that' ; s good. Did anybody, I know your husband Merle served in WWII, tell me about that. BB: Well, he-- he was on, he was on the [Indecipherable] canal and all those little islands around there, [Indecipherable] GS: What, was he in the marines? BB: Yeah, my brother was in the navy GS: Okay BB: And he burned his feet, they were fighting with fire on the walls I think it was. And a boy worked for us, the neighbor boys would work for us and just come and live with us. When they got sixteen, their dad' ; s would run them off and they' ; d come to our house and they' ; d [Indecipherable] and moved on. But Alfred Dobson (ph), Pete' ; s brother, he was working for us and he quit to join the navy, and he was on the wasp, and we never found his body. GS: Aw, was the wasp, did it go down? BB: Yeah, Japanese. GS: In Pearl Harbor or out on the- BB: Out in the GS: Out in the ocean, in the ocean BB: Yeah in the ocean GS: But your brother survived BB: Yeah he had burned feet, but he got out GS: Good, was your brother and Merle the only two who served in- BB: In WWII GS: In WWII? BB: No. GS: Did you-- were you, did your family listen to the war news on the radio? BB: I don' ; t know because I wasn' ; t home [Inaudible] GS: You mentioned the radio battery earlier, was it a car battery that you used on your radio? BB: I don' ; t-- GS: I' ; ve heard some people used car batteries BB: I don' ; t know GS: Don' ; t remember, okay. Did you read any newspapers as a young adult? BB: Yes GS: What newspapers did you read? BB: Tulsa GS: Tulsa World or whatever it was back then BB: Tulsa World. Yeah, that' ; s where I have all these old clippings because there wasn' ; t anything to do, and I was always interested in History, and so I' ; ve got a box full of old newspaper clippings GS: Oh BB: Even at the beginning of World War II GS: That' ; s wonderful. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your lifetime? BB: Wow so many GS: Yes, there are. There' ; s so many that have impacted life, it would be hard to pick just a few favorite. BB: Yeah, I guess most important would be the computers. But I don' ; t have one, don' ; t want one. I' ; ve gone this long, long time without one, don' ; t need one. GS: What event would you say influence the world the most during your lifetime? Event or events? BB: I would say World War II GS: Did you-- were you aware during WWII of what Hitler was doing? BB: Yes, I kept up with the news. Mom insisted on a daily newspaper, so. GS: Oh, this is a loaded question ; how different is the world today than it was when you were a child? BB: Just as different as you can get GS: Yeah BB: Absolutely just exactly different. There' ; s no-- you can' ; t punish children for anything, you can' ; t punish murderers for anything, there' ; s no laws, no regulations, everybody can do whatever you want you, and you won' ; t get punished very bad for it. No manners, kids don' ; t have manners, they' ; re not being taught manners and good behavior. GS: And that has to come from home and they' ; re not getting it at home. BB: That' ; s right, that' ; s right. I can remember mom was pretty good, she was bad on manners and we weren' ; t allowed to eat until everybody was seated at the table, and if you wanted to leave earlier than most people, you had to be excused from the table. And you didn' ; t slam doors, and Tom was about three or four years old and he was at our house and we had a door between the living room and the kitchen, and he was upset about something, he-- mom had got onto him for some reason, and he slammed the door, but we didn' ; t hear his footsteps leaving, so he just there waiting. He came back, opened the door and he said " ; Anytime I slam a door like that, you know I' ; m mad" ; and he [Indecipherable] and she said " ; You go home before you get in trouble" ; . GS: Ooh! I think you kind of alluded to the problems, but I' ; m gonna ask this question anyway. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face out nation today? BB: Love GS: What? BB: Love GS: Love BB: If you love people you wouldn' ; t treat them like you do. Everybody' ; s greedy, everybody' ; s ready to cheat anybody out of a dollar, and-- GS: It is a sad state BB: It really is, don' ; t look out for one another at all. And that' ; s the way we were raised, we were raised to look out for one another. Backed people whoever GS: Yup, okay we' ; ve talked about a lot ; is there anything else you' ; d like to tell us that I haven' ; t thought of to ask ya? BB: There' ; s a lot of things I' ; d like to tell you but I don' ; t-- wouldn' ; t want it on tape (Laughter) GS: Is there anything of historic significance that you could tell me that you would want to have on tape? BB: Yes, there' ; s one thing I' ; m so proud of. I worked for the first CPA in Bristow GS: And who was that? BB: C. C. Wilson GS: C. C. Wilson, and what did you do? BB: Kept books. GS: K, okay. And what year was that, years? Decade would work. BB: Probably not, I don' ; t remember GS: Was it after you and Merle were married? BB: Yes GS: So sometime after 45' ; BB: Yeah GS: When did you stop working for him? BB: Well see, when he died, he left the office-- office, he had five offices and he left the offices to the manager [Indecipherable] Bristow office, the Johnny Simmons (ph) GS: Oh okay BB: And I remember Johnny Simmons, but- GS:I think I knew that and had forgotten. BB: I have no clue, don' ; t know how long. GS: Okay. Well I' ; ll tell ya Bunny, if you think of anything else that you think " ; Oh man this would' ; ve gone good in that" ; , you call me and I' ; ll bring the little recorder back and we' ; ll get it taken care of, okay? BB: Well, I-- My ambition was to be a-- was a reporter GS: Court recorder, or reporter? BB: Reporter, I worked for a, what was his name, out at the house, I typed for him. The court reporter here. I can' ; t think of the name, but we had money for a camper, fast boats, anything you wanna mention, but we never had the money for a machine so I could be a reporter. GS: Now I didn' ; t ask you how long you and Merle were married BB: It was sixty- no fifty-eight years GS: Fifty-eight years BB: Because I was looking forward to sixty GS: Aw BB: He didn' ; t make it GS: When did he pass away Bunny? BB: Hm, can' ; t remember GS: That' ; s okay BB: I' ; ve got it down GS: It' ; s okay ; that' ; ll work, that' ; ll work. Well I really appreciate your doing this, we at the museum were all excited! Linda said " ; Oh those are two heavy weights you' ; re doing, you and Caroline Webb" ; so, I haven' ; t got to do Caroline yet but I think I should' ; ve stopped this before I rambled. Yup it' ; s still going. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-01_Bunny_Baker.xml OHP-2020-01_Bunny_Baker.xml
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Bunny Baker
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Bunny Baker shares her experiences growing up in Bristow. She discusses family history, western heritage days, and shares many fun stories from her childhood through young adult life.
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OHP-2020-01
Date
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2020-09-11
Format
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
farming
Great Depression
holidays
home life
hospital
Iron Post
Native American ceremonies
Poor Farm
restaurants
social life
stores
World War I
World War II
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8ac2714537977695b4070c30ae2f4f68
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Family Histories
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carole Ellis
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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5.4 November 12, 2020 OHP-2020-09 Carole Ellis OHP-2020-09 00:00 - 64:15 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Carole Ellis Georgia Smith MP3 1:|60(7)|92(1)|114(3)|154(15)|166(13)|183(15)|202(11)|220(3)|241(8)|263(12)|291(1)|318(7)|333(2)|358(7)|377(8)|409(1)|420(9)|441(1)|467(6)|477(9)|507(2)|527(3)|542(5)|568(2)|591(5)|603(4)|621(7)|641(3)|677(3)|704(8)|718(13)|728(6)|746(7)|754(11)|768(4)|782(1)|791(15)|813(11)|832(11)|842(6)|853(9)|862(14)|874(2)|880(3)|893(1)|906(3)|914(10)|925(2)|943(6)|955(16)|969(1)|982(6)|995(6)|1011(11)|1036(5)|1065(2)|1079(9)|1094(6)|1105(1)|1116(6)|1131(6)|1142(15)|1156(1)|1169(13) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Carole Greer Ellis.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carol Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carol? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carol Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carol Lynn Greer Baltimore, Maryland ; Bristow Historical Society ; Carol Greer Ellis ; Carol Lynn Greer ; Georgia Smith 77 Family History GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents’ names, and we’ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43’ or 44’ CE: Yes Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel ; Edward Wyatt ; Gale Lease Lawson ; Jerry Ellis ; Merle Leroy Greer https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25270948/edward-j-wyatt Edward Wyatt 220 Childhood GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Slyman lived across the street, Claudia Parish—Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? Billy Newton ; Claudia Parish ; Edison Elementary ; Peggy Newton ; Safeway ; Sherry Hill ; Silver plunge ; Washington Elementary ; Winky Dink ; Zorro 705 Grandparents GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we’re gonna switch to your grandparent’s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before—let me back up, what were your grandparent’s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don’t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my—they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother’s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother’s father, and he also was born in Maryland. Creek County ; Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel ; Earnest Greer ; Mounds, Oklahoma ; Thomas Charleston Brigle ; Willa Wyatt Greer 917 School GS: Where did you first attend school? We’re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? Bristow High School ; Bristow Junior High School ; Edison Elementary ; Gladys Holcombe ; Mrs. Foster ; New York City ; Oklahoma State University ; Peadee Smith ; University of Oklahoma ; Washington Elementary 1234 Church Life GS: I'm sure you did, I'm sure. Okay we're gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to First Baptist Church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is. GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you can't remember GS: No First Baptist Church ; Harvets Jewelry Store 1374 Medical Care GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt's doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay Dr. C. T. Kent ; Dr. King ; Kay James ; Laban ; Saint Francis Hospital ; Siscler 1633 Businesses GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You've mentioned some grocery stores, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I'll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Cafe, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows. GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Bushes American National Bank ; Bushes Cafe ; Dairy Queen ; Ford Hardware Store ; Hamburger King ; Harvest Jewelry ; Harvets Jewelry ; Ice House ; Kemp Drug ; MedalGold ; Mrs. Bushkin ; Oscars ; Patens ; Princes Theater ; Redbird ; Shamus ; Silvers ; Stanford Clothing Shop ; Strongs ; Tropes Service Station ; Walmer ; Woolworth 1800 Jobs and Art GS: Okay, that's pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn't have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I loved plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house. GS: I did not know that. National Academy ; New York City ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma State University ; The Natural Wire Draw ; Wanda Newton 2118 Oklahoma City Bombing GS: Now I know that you've used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City Bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Murrah building affect you personally? CE: I think that's two different questions so I'm gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There's fine art and there's commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it's a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future's gonna be. You never know that it's gonna be based on money or how you're gonna survive. You train yourself fin the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you're going to become, you don't have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that's happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- American Library Association ; Chris Watt ; FAA ; John Lennon ; Murrah Building ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; Oklahoma City Project ; Oklahoma Department of Libraries ; Parsons ; Woody Guthrie 2886 Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don't remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I'm very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I'm always getting back involved with it. Well after I'd been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that's right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I'd been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I'm not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela's back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I've written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- Fashion Institute ; Jimmy Baker ; New York ; Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony ; Trace Kelly 3213 Politics GS: You did ; alright we're going to switch now. I don't think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we're gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that's a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it's better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn't mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone's else's point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. Korean War ; Martin Marietta ; Princeton ; World War II 3408 Lifetime Changes and Closing Thoughts GS: We're gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn't have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let's see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It's a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there's something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don't have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. COVID ; Gilcrease Museum In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Carole Ellis Other Persons: Date of Interview: November 12, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-09 at 00:00 to 64:15 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carole Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carole? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carole Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carole Lynn Greer GS: Okay, and where were you born? CE: I was born in Baltimore, Maryland GS: Were you born in a hospital? CE: Yes, I was GS: Okay, and what was the date of your birth? CE: February 26, 1945. GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents' ; names, and we' ; ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43' ; or 44' ; CE: Yes GS: Okay, what brought them to Oklahoma? Probably that he was from here. CE: My father' ; s family was here from before statehood, his mother was born in a sod house in creek county and her dad, Edward Wyatt, created one of the first rural schools in creek county. GS: Oh awesome! I find out so much I didn' ; t know. How many children did your parents have? CE: Two GS: Okay and what were their names, or are their names? CE: Well myself and my sister Gale Lease Lawson (ph) GS: What did your father do for a living? CE: My father worked for the post office. GS: Okay, most of his life? CE: Yes, he did, he retired from the post office and so did his father. GS: Oh, what did your mother do? CE: My mother was a dental assistant, and did dental education in Bristow schools GS: I remember your mother and the kids would always come home and say " ; The tooth lady came to see us today" ; CE: That' ; s right, and of course she was involved in starting the historical society. GS: Yes, yes she was. What is your-- are you married? CE: No GS: Okay, have you been married? CE: Yes, I have GS: What was your spouse' ; s name? CE: Jerry GS: Jerry-- CE: Ellis GS: Ellis, okay. And what date was that, that you got married? CE: Oh gosh, it' ; s been so long ago. I don' ; t really remember. GS: Okay, did you divorce? CE: Yes, we did GS: Or was he-- Okay. Did you have any children? CE: No GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Sly man lived across the street, Claudia Parish--Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? CE: First we were in something called veterans apartments, which I think were near the football field where I think people were returning from the war. Now my father was in World War II, and the Korean conflict he was called back, I remember that time because my mom was really sad and he left us before we were home. And then they started building a new housing edition on South Cedar street, and we watched a house being built there and moved there. GS: Okay, what are some of your favorite toys as a child? CE: My crayons GS: I knew you were gonna say that. Carole is quite the artist. What kind of role did your mother play in the home? CE: Well mother was--she baked a lot of things, she made the house look beautiful, but she was also a working woman. GS: And how was your laundry done? CE: In a washing machine, but I do remember going over to my grandmother Greer' ; s house and seeing a big sink in the basement and there was an old washing machine that had a wringer, you know those wringer things GS: Yes, but yours did not have a wringer CE: No it didn' ; t GS: Okay, what kind of cooking stove? CE: Gas GS: Gas cooking stove. What were some of your normal daily meals? CE: Cheerios in the morning, lunch at the elementary schools where the cooks made the best food whether there was Edison Elementary or when we moved across town to Washington Elementary, and those wonderful cinnamon rolls that they cooked in the morning and you smelled them in the school while you were doing your morning classes. And then while it' ; s close to thanksgiving time now so we would' ; ve gone to my grandmother' ; s house and there would' ; ve been a big turkey and lots of homemade dressing and pies cooling on the back porch and homemade rolls, lots of them because the family was big. My father had five brothers and sisters and everyone came to grandmother' ; s house with my cousins. And the big dining room table was laid out and then the kids tables were in the kitchen and in the summer time, homemade ice cream, and the freezers in the--the ice cream makers in the back yard where the kids sat on a palate while the adults churned the ice cream GS: Did they sit on top of the ice cream freezer? CE: Yes, you sat on top of the quilt of the ice cream--on top of the ice cream freezer. GS: Do you have any of the family recipes from your childhood that you still make? CE: No I don' ; t, but my grandmother made incredible mashed potatoes, which I tried to do myself with lots of butter. You have to have lots of butter in mashed potatoes GS: Oh yeah, that makes them much better. Where did you--where did your family shop for groceries? CE: Well, at the time I grew up main street had a lot of stores, among it were some small grocery stores on main street itself. And so I remember going to that store. Also at that time, grocery stores delivered sometimes. It' ; s funny now with the pandemic that we' ; re actually reverting back to the older ways of having groceries delivered to your house. GS: This is true CE: I think--I think Safeway was here then. GS: What were your daily chores? CE: Summer, mowing the lawn. Laundry when my mother was working and washing and drying the dishes, and washing the car in the summertime with my sister. GS: Oh, I always thought that was fun. Did your family ever employ any household help? CE: No. GS: What type of clothes did you wear? CE: My mother was always very good about keeping us up with the latest things, so it was nice. GS: So probably store bought clothes CE: Yes GS: And you already told me who some of your childhood friends were, what about some of your childhood games that you played? CE: Well the Newton' ; s were big friends too, Peggy and Billy Newton. Games, monopoly, I wasn' ; t a big game person, I was more of being an outdoor person GS: Well maybe outdoor games CE: Well, hide-and-seek in the summertime till it got dark then the neighborhood kids had to go inside, swimming of course in the summertime learning how to swim, and walking, going to day camp, day camp was just--first day camp for Bristow schools was started when I was growing up and we all went to day camp. GS: Was that at the--was the swimming pool called the Silver Plunge back then? CE: It was, and the day camp was in what were the--the city has the buildings now but those buildings-- GS: Were the camp CE: Where they used to have the county fair and county buildings. GS: What was your daily life like? Just to--a day in the life of Carol Ellis when you were a child, Carol Greer? CE: Well of course on Saturday when we got TV finally, you would watch some of your favorite shows like Zorro or go over to the neighbor' ; s house and watch Winky Dink, which had a Wink--Sherrin had a Winky Dink set which was something you bought from the TV people and you put this little screen up on your TV and Winky Dink would have adventures and you would have a little pencil that you would draw little bridges or-- GS: Oh how fun CE: You would interact with the story GS: And that was right up your ally. CE: Well that was fun GS: Yes, I' ; m sure you enjoyed that. Okay you just mentioned television, do you remember the first television you got? CE: I do, because it was a family decision. We had to decide whether we wanted to spend money on getting bicycles or television. GS: And television won out CE: It did GS: Did you have radio before that? CE: Yes GS: And did you all listen to it in the evenings much? CE: All the time GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to your grandparent' ; s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before--let me back up, what were your grandparent' ; s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don' ; t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my--they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother' ; s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother' ; s father, and he also was born in Maryland. GS: Okay CE: Then my--I knew my great grandparents Brigle and my great grandparents Giden, all in Maryland. And then I knew my great grandmother Wyatt (ph) who was my grandmother Greers mom, and her sisters and all her sisters, she had three, lived to be older than 95 years old. GS: Wow CE: And my grandmother lived to be 100, and all of them had their wits about them GS: That is wonderful CE: That' ; s true. GS: Do you remember who the oldest person in your family was when you were a child? CE: My great grandmothers GS: And-- CE: Great--grandfather. GS: Okay, do you remember anything specifically them saying about life or anything? CE: I remember what they did GS: Ok CE: My great grandmother Giden and they had this wonderful two story house and they held us outside of Maryland and whenever we would visit in the summer times, the house number one was quiet. The only sound in the house was the ticking of the clock in the living room GS: Wow, mhm. CE: And the--there was a water pump on the back porch and a beautiful stream near the side of the house and she raised beautiful lilac bushes and flowers and she had banty chickens, so when we would visit for vacation time, she would cook--she was a great cook, and the thing I remember most was she would make pancakes after the dinner after we arrived and then she would put chicken gravy on the pancakes in the morning. GS: Oh my goodness CE: And that was very delicious. And my great grandfather Giden had lost his arm shooting off fireworks GS: Ohh CE: Just below the elbow, but he never let it interfere with how active he was in driving the car, or whatever he did. And he had a really wonderful personality, he would sit down on this old screen covered porch with us as grandchildren and we' ; d sit in these wonderful wicker rocking chairs and watch the trains go by. GS: What delightful memories I love those. CE: All my grandmothers were good cooks. GS: Ah, I think most grandmothers back then were good cooks CE: They were very good cooks GS: Where did you first attend school? We' ; re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? CE: 1963' ; then Oklahoma State University, graduated in English, started my masters in English and OSU, stopped that when I decided I didn' ; t think I knew enough to write a dissertation, and then I started working in the libraries in Oklahoma City, then I went to the university of Oklahoma and got my masters in Library Science. Completed that, then went to work at the state department of the libraries in Oklahoma City, and did public relations, and then I went to New York city and worked in Publishing and public relations and at that time, that' ; s when I got involved in the art schools in New York City, even though as a child I' ; d always done art and when actually I was here in Bristow, growing up there was an art teacher named Peadee Smith (ph) and Peedea gave art lessons in her house and a lot of us kids took art lessons with her. And then Gladys Holcombe (ph) was the art teacher in elementary school at Washington, and so she was very influential both Gladys and Peadee. GS: Did they, back then, switch like 6 months at Washington and 6 months at Edison? CE: Oh no GS: Like they do today? CE: Not at all, m-m. No you went there all the time, it was a neighborhood school. GS: Okay CE: You know ; this was a small town. You walked to school, wherever you lived on which side of town doesn' ; t matter whether you went to Edison or Washington, and you walked to school. And it was not kindergarten, but first grade through sixth grade. GS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations or sports? CE: Yes GS: In high school? CE: In high school. Pep club, speech and debate, future teachers of America, Latin club because we studied Latin, two years of Latin, and I was involved in everything. GS: That' ; s wonderful, that' ; s what kids need to do. Was the high school used for any other community purpose back then that you remember? CE: No GS: Did you take a sack lunch or did you eat in the cafeteria? CE: There was no cafeteria in the high school GS: Okay CE: And there was no cafeteria in the junior high school GS: Just the elementary? CE: Just the elementary schools, so junior high I remember I' ; m not sure quite what we did there. We' ; d walk home, I mean it was nothing to walk home, or we would take our lunches, they had lunch rooms where you--people who brought their lunch ate their lunch. And then whenever we were in high school we came down town and went to the cafes. GS: Do you remember anything in particular about the classroom, or were teachers strict back then? Easy going? CE: We had incredible, incredibly educated teachers. If you look in our yearbook, over half our teachers had master' ; s degrees at the time in their field GS: That' ; s wonderful CE: We had a library in all the schools with librarians. There was natural light in the classroom, the windows opened and stairways, you go up and down beautiful marble staircases in high school. Our teachers had command of what they taught and were legendary. I mean my father had teachers I had and my sister had those same teachers. Those teachers were here for twenty, thirty, forty years. You know, educating all of us. I remember Mrs. Fosters English classes, legendary, loving learning how to diagram census and having to watch Shakespeare on TV as part of our assignment for a week once those programs happened, and I really missed having art classes after elementary school, they didn' ; t think art was important. GS: They didn' ; t offer it as an elective back then? CE: Nothing, nothing at all. GS: That' ; s a shame. CE: So I started writing more and yeah I longed for it, I missed it a lot. GS: I' ; m sure you did, I' ; m sure. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to the churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to the First Baptist church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you don' ; t remember GS: No CE: I think you remember, I remember the beautiful stained glass windows, having little pencils in the pews so I would draw pictures on the bulletins, I remember the wonderful choir music from the youth choirs and the adult choirs, I remember the wonderful dinners in the church basement, I remember the Sunday school teachers who might have you over to their house, who would be especially nurturing, I remember wonderful socials in the summer where you' ; d have delicious cakes that everybody made and homemade ice cream. So that' ; s what I remember about churches. GS: Were your parents involved in the church? CE: Yup, my parents were involved in everything GS: Did your mom sing in the choir? CE: No GS: Okay, or your dad? CE: No GS: Okay, what were the weddings like back then? CE: Well everyone went to Harvests (ph) Jewelry Store to register what kind of china and silverware pottery they wanted GS: Uh-huh CE: There were big wedding dressed and bridesmaids and grooms and--I think much too much was made of getting married after women got out of school or college, although at the same time they were beginning to gear us as women for professions, that wasn' ; t the overall message of the society at the time. That' ; s when it was really beginning to change. GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt' ; s doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay CE: And Dr. King made all kinds of house calls in the country and everything. In fact, I remember one time, I think it was [Indecipherable] someone would set, you know Doctor King was that kind of country doctor that you went out to see the patients no matter what, no matter what kind of weather or what--and he would always use one of the water towers as a guide to getting him back home. GS: Oh my goodness CE: You know the water towers weren' ; t always here GS: No CE: I don' ; t know the history of them, but they weren' ; t always GS: No CE: But I remember that story. Another great thing about living in a small town or any place were you are for a while, even if you leave then come back, which I did and gone for a long time, you learn stories that tied other stories ten years ago, twenty years ago, and it' ; s always an interweaving of the stories that we tell, which is really the great thing about having oral history GS: It is a wonderful thing about it, and I can see that in these interviews interweaving and looping, I love it. Did we have a hospital in Bristow back then? CE: I remember the old hospital which was behind where the homestead clinic is today, was on 8th street, the Siscler (ph), I think it was Siscler I think that was the name of it. I remember Kay James was born there cause my mom went to be with Laban (ph), my mother and Laban were good friends, I remember going to the doctor there and sitting in the waiting room there, and then of course the new hospital was born. And the new doctors building was built, which is where--Doctor Kent' ; s office is where the creek county health department is now. GS: Okay. Do you ever remember being hospitalized as a child? CE: When I was a senior in high school, that summer I started getting terrible pains in my belly, and then I would just double over almost, and they couldn' ; t--doctor Kent couldn' ; t find out what it was so my mother took me to Doctor King, the old doctor that my great grandmother had, and he was in an office upstairs on main street. I remember walking up the old stairs and he started thumping on my belly ' ; cause older doctors would thump on your body and they would look at your fingernails, they would examine your body carefully. And he would make an X where I said ' ; ouch' ; or something, and then he connected them. He did this with an old fountain pen. GS: Wow CE: And then about a week later, Saint Francis hospital had just been built, and he told my mom, my parents that he was sending me to a young surgeon and the young surgeon decided I needed to have surgery and they did surgery when I was--a week after I was football queen GS: Ohh CE: In high school. And at the time you were there almost two weeks GS: Oh my goodness, did they find out what it was? CE: Yes, appendicitis and a few other things GS: Well it' ; s wonderful they got it before that appendix burst CE: It is GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You' ; ve mentioned some grocery store, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I' ; ll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Café, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Busches CE: No, no. Yeah, south. Then there was Strongs, and then there was the Stanford Clothing shop, and then let' ; s see, there was a Ford Hardware store on the corner, and then there was--and then I remember Woolworth (ph), ton of fun, Patens (ph) next to Woolworth, more fun for kids since it had toys and everything in there GS: Between seventh and eighth street CE: Right, and then the banks. American National bank, and then the small grocery store was kind of between sixth and seventh, between right up here near sixth street GS: Sixth and seventh then probably CE: And then Shamus' ; s GS: Yes CE: And let' ; s see, oh Redbird, the shoe store GS: Yes, yes CE: I mean that was between sixth and-- GS: I think CE: Fifth GS: Fifth, yes CE: Okay ; no, sixth and seventh GS: Okay CE: Yeah, okay. And then let' ; s see, Tropes Service Station (ph) which was out on the highway, so--Oh Harvest (ph) Jewelry was on the west side, Silvers was on the east side, Kemps drug store on the east side, the movie theaters on the east side, the Princes Theater and the Walmer (ph), The Hamburger King at the end of the corner GS: Did you ever eat there? CE: No, that was an adult place. GS: Oh okay CE: We ate at the Dairy Queen that first came near the railroad tracks and you got your first ice cream cone with the chocolate on top GS: Oh yes CE: Oh and then there was the Ice House GS: Yes CE: Across the railroad tracks, so that' ; s what I remember GS: Okay, that' ; s pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn' ; t have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I love plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house GS: I did not know that CE: With a bar and the mirrors and everything, so all--a lot, every little girl in my group of girls, we took ballet in town for several years. And we continued to dance our whole lives with Wanda, kind of like Jennifer is now. When we got older in high school, the future teachers we would put on dance skits and Wanda would choreograph them and we would have male dance partners. So we were dancing all that time too. GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful. How did you decide, well let me back up. What did after you became an adult, what were some of the jobs that you had? CE: When I was at Oklahoma State University when I was studying my masters, I was a teaching assistant, I taught freshman English for several years there. And then I went to Oklahoma City and I got a job being a public relations officer for the state department of [Indecipherable] GS: Now you' ; ve mentioned your love of art, how did you interweave art into your lifestyle? CE: Well at different times it came out. I think I didn' ; t really realize how missing it was in my life until I went to New York city after I left the department of libraries in Oklahoma City, I went to live in New York City and worked for a publishing company, children' ; s book publishing on 5th avenue. GS: Okay CE: I see it' ; s red GS: It' ; s still doing good CE: Okay, and so I was taking care of my neighbors plants and I came upon this book called The Natural Way to Draw, and it' ; s a classic still that' ; s used by the art students and I began drawing again [Indecipherable] things in that book, and then I met this artist in Central Park from Spain, a painter from Spain, and he--I really loved his paintings, the first time I was really in an artist' ; s studio, all these beautiful paintings he was doing and everything, and I wanted him to teach me how to paint. Also when I was studying here with Pete, when the first time I ever touched oil paint or paint I loved it, loved how it smelled, loved mixing it up, I loved everything ; brushes. So in New York, he said " ; I' ; m not gonna teach you how to paint until you have to learn the basics, the language of drawing, you have to go study anatomy and life drawing. If you can do that for a year, then you can come back and we' ; ll start painting" ; . So I went off to the National Academy and started studying anatomy and life drawing and it was very hard because I was in my 30s and my drawings looked like I was 5 years old. But after I was there, then I' ; m like " ; How am I gonna remember these big long names and skeleton and these people are drawing these beautiful figures and what am I doing?" ; . But after about a month, I started getting this very strong feeling that I was longing to know this, and then the final day of that summer class, we went and I said " ; You just got to do your best at your drawing" ; and all of a sudden, this figure popped up on my page and I' ; m like--and then another one and then another one and I' ; m like " ; Where did this come from? Did I make this?" ; and that' ; s when I got this real strong sense that art was something that I missed in my life a long time and I had studied English, my native language, for over twenty years and that I needed to study art for at least ten years to get myself a basic vocabulary of art and that' ; s when I really got the strong sense of truly being an artist and what it meant to feel that. GS: Now I know that you' ; ve used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Mura building affect you personally? CE: I think that' ; s two different questions so I' ; m gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There' ; s fine art and there' ; s commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it' ; s a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future' ; s gonna be. You never know that it' ; s gonna be based on money or how you' ; re gonna survive. You train yourself in the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you' ; re going to become, you don' ; t have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that' ; s happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- GS: And what year was that? CE: The Oklahoma City Bombing happened on April 19th, 1995. I was in New York City at the time, I' ; d been living in New York since 1974. GS: What took you to Oklahoma City? CE: Not Oklahoma City GS: Or not Oklahoma City, New York City, sorry. CE: Well I had been living in Oklahoma City before I went to New York City GS: Okay CE: What took me to New York city, my life took me and youthfulness took me. There' ; s no rhyme or reason, my life needed to change and I' ; d been on this national public relations committee, I' ; d been a very young judge, I had put together public relations campaign for the Oklahoma Department of Libraries, and it won a national award, and part of winning a national award from the American Library Association was ten judges who' ; d won those awards for that year were brought to New York City in the summer for one week to judge all the public relations efforts of the American Library Association. GS: And you fell in love with it. CE: And not that way, no. GS: No? No? CE: That was a very nurturing experience, but something about the city itself drew me there in a time in my life when I needed a change in my life and that' ; s what I did. GS: Very good! Okay so you were in Oklahoma--I keep saying that, you were in New York City when the Murrah building was bombed CE: Yes, I was and a friend of mine, I' ; d gone to my local diner where I had breakfast in the mornings, and someone at the counter mentioned to me " ; Carole, a bomb went off in Oklahoma City at a federal building, what happened?" ; . Well I didn' ; t listen to television all the time or the news either. When I was in New York city, studying art and being part of the life, that was a lot of what I did. And so I said " ; I don' ; t know" ; . So when I got home, I said " ; Well maybe the FAA" ; , that' ; s the only federal building I knew of, I remembered and then I went home and a friend of mine called me, a friend of mine who' ; s a classical pianist and told me about the bombing and what had happened and that children were killed and he was very affected by it, and kids started playing music that composers had written for their children, piano composers. And it affected me, learning this. And well I couldn' ; t get through to Oklahoma on the phone GS: I' ; m sure CE: For over 24 hours, I couldn' ; t call my parents or anything. So I just started writing. I just started writing. And I wrote for 24 hours, I mean off and on, the next morning I went to the diner again, I had known then what happened. Then I walked home and that--when I walked home after all that 24 hours of writing, that' ; s when I sat down and wrote the poem, the 19th of--no it' ; s called the 20th of April 1995, cause it' ; s about the Oklahoma City Bombing, but I wrote it the next day. And wrote it almost in its entirety, straight out. And just--and it was as I wanted it to be and then there was kind of like, you know I did those drawings and they popped up on my page from that cabinet. The poem was similar, they often talk about--often times an artist feels like they' ; re a vehicle, you know, for something to come forth from you, and sometimes those things happen and it' ; s very special. And then--then I started, I' ; d taken the Oklahoma Flag with a small Oklahoma flag, I always thought the Oklahoma Flag was so beautiful. I had it on my wall in my apartment all the time I was there, and then I decided to make a series of drawings with the Oklahoma Flag to go along with the poem I' ; d written. So I took the Oklahoma flag and I rolled up an American flag I have on one of those wooden sticks and I stapled the Oklahoma flag to it and I carried it first to central part and I sat it down some few places trying to saw it. It didn' ; t seem quite right, but there was this shared knowledge of what had happened in Oklahoma City and kind of a quiet in the city, and people would see the Oklahoma flag walking by and they' ; d stop. They didn' ; t know, and they' ; d start talking about the bombing or something. And so I ended up rolling, taking the flag and finding the place in the tulip beds of fifth avenue, nope, yup, the tulip beds of fifth avenue. Is it fifth avenue? I' ; m not sure, square the streets, the streets are on both sides and the tulip beds go down the middle. And so I started doing a series of drawings of the flag in the tulip beds, and it was April, I continued to draw the flag for almost a year. That' ; s when I started working at the Oklahoma City Bombing and I called it the Oklahoma City Project because in studying, I' ; m more of a project person too. Like when John Lennon died, I was at Parsons at the time. I first started off with sketches at the Dakota building that night after he was killed. Then I went into Central Park for the memorial service and did a great big charcoal drawing of the crowd. Then I took the feeling of that crowd into making sculpture in the studio at Parsons ; clay sculpture, steel sculpture, doing interviews. I knew that I wanted a final project and it took a year before the final project came, which was a painting. Usually when I do a final project, it' ; s kind of like when I wrote that poem. You know, I' ; ve written pretty hard for twenty-four hours, couldn' ; t get what I wanted. Then the next morning I went for a walk and got away from it and came back and wrote the poem, same thing with the John Lennon project, I' ; d been working a year on different mediums and ways with John Lennon, I did John Lennon and the thing is, it stays with you, it doesn' ; t leave. GS: Right CE: Okay, and so I knew " ; Okay I wanna do a final painting" ; so I put everything away and one day I put all the work away for a couple of days to sort of ruminate and then I made this painting of my three muses walking around with a hole in them. Not gory, but and then on a peace symbol that was on the ground and sort of colors in the sky like a Van Gogh painting. GS: Yes CE: And that was the final, that was the final work. And so then you know it' ; s done, so that' ; s what fine art is like. You can' ; t predict it, you just have to be trained in it and trust yourself to know certain things, not give up. GS: So how did your talent there get applied and how did you become even more involved in the Murrah building bombing memorial? CE: Oh well that went on for years, and the way it went on was I continued to do the drawings, entered the design contest, came back to Oklahoma a number of times to visit the site for the design contest and whenever I' ; d come home and visit my family, I would go there because it was still inside working on it and there were different parts of it, it was pretty big. And then I went to the--took me a while before I could go the memorial itself, but I went to the dedication, I think I moved back to Oklahoma at the time just had moved back to Oklahoma. And I was always able to get it--I knew how to get press passes, so as an artist it' ; s interesting--it' ; s good to get a press pass if you can. You know, I did that often times with the Woody Guthrie thing, so I went to the dedication and sat with the CNN film crew under the bleachers and then when they had the first Oklahoma City memorial marathon, I went there I think when Rena was running in that. And local people from Bristow were running in it, Chris may have been one of them too, Chris Watt. And so it' ; s sort of--tried to take it to different places at different times, and it would get a certain way then stop, so I have all this material, huge [Indecipherable] material, and it just kind of came to a standstill after that. GS: And you' ; ve been good enough to share that material with us here at the museum. We were going to do a display of a lot of your material and the communities reaction to the Oklahoma City Bombing this last April on the 20th anniversary but COVID stopped that. Tell me about the-- CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don' ; t remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I' ; m very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I' ; m always getting back involved with it. Well after I' ; d been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that' ; s right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I' ; d been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I' ; m not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela' ; s back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I' ; ve written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- GS: It was probably already memorized CE: [Indecipherable] I remember my old speech days at Bristow High School, so I can train to do those things. And so he said " ; Well I want you to be an ambassador for New York and come back to the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony in November of 1995" ; , November the magic month here we are. " ; And I want you and a guy from New York is gonna be honored [Indecipherable] and he' ; ll be coming too" ; so that' ; s how I got there, I was--he invited me to come in November of 1995 to present the poem and it was gonna be televised on [Indecipherable] it was, it was filmed. And there was a large audience, my parents were invited, it was a huge affair, the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony is a big deal every year in Oklahoma. That and that--so a friend of mine in New York City who knew how to find beautiful dresses at in great places, she graduated from the fashion institute in New York, she found that dress. GS: Oh it was a beautiful dress CE: It' ; s a beautiful dress. And so I brought the dress, carried it on the plane, it was a [Indecipherable] plane. So when the [Indecipherable] crew learned what I was doing because there were, they were very touched by it all because one of those [Indecipherable] planes, something happened to it off the coast of New York before Oklahoma City, and so you know I had an all-expenses paid trip, a beautiful hotel-- GS: Wow CE: My sister sent beautiful flowers in my room, you know you go to the Oklahoma--we had rehearsals in the Oklahoma City auditorium, I had a dressing room with a big star on my door, I had an assistant, and we rehearsed. It was a big show and then I always remember my mom got me the--she got these blue rings to match and you know, Trace Kelly (ph) and Polly were there, people were in tuxes and everything. I remember right before it was time to go out on stage, I always think this is interesting with acting, you remember your lines, you remember your lines [Indecipherable] ready to go on the day and you get real nervous. I remember I looked at Jimmy when we were standing on stage, the stage lights were on and the ceremony was rolling, and I looked at him and said " ; I don' ; t know if I remember" ; . He looked straight me straight in the eyes and said " ; Yes you do, you' ; ll do just fine" ; and he pushed me right out there. In that beautiful blue dress. So that' ; s-- GS: Well I' ; ve seen your picture, you looked beautiful in that dress. CE: So that' ; s where it came from GS: You did ; alright we' ; re going to switch now. I don' ; t think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we' ; re gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that' ; s a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it' ; s better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn' ; t mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone' ; s else' ; s point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. GS: Right, right. What are your memories of World War II? CE: I wasn' ; t born. GS: That' ; s true, you were just born at the end of it. You said your father served in World War II? CE: He did GS: Do you have--what branch did he serve in? CE: My father was in the navy GS: Okay, was he on one of the carriers? CE: Daddy was on the Princeton GS: The Princeton, I forgot to turn off that telephone, let me do that real quick. CE: He was on an aircraft carrier. GS: The aircraft carrier, Princeton. CE: Right GS: Okay, let me just turn this off so we don' ; t have that again. Okay, and did he--how long did he serve in the navy? CE: Again I don' ; t know ; I think he went in I think two or three years GS: Okay, and you mentioned that he went to Korea then? CE: Yes, he was called back into Korea. GS: So he had gotten out of the service but then was called back in CE: He was GS: Okay, do you know what he did in the Korean war? CE: No GS: Okay. What was that like for you with your father gone off to war as a child? CE: It was scary because you' ; re a young child with an older sister and you don' ; t know, you see your mom being very very sad and your dad leaving, and then you--then we went to live with my mother' ; s parents in Texas, they moved to Texas because my grandfather Brigo worked for Martin Marietta (ph) and we lived with them for a while then we came back to Bristow. GS: We' ; re gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn' ; t have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let' ; s see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It' ; s a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there' ; s something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don' ; t have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. GS: Right CE: And nurture your community as a whole so that children, especially so that children don' ; t see such a divided world and see the value of [Indecipherable] your ideas and your philosophies to create a better community for everyone. GS: I love that, I love that. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation, and how do you think they could be solved? CE: One of the biggest problems now is to think that whatever channel or little google thing we bring up--I' ; m not looking at this-- GS: No I' ; m just making sure everything' ; s still going well CE: Whatever social media channel or television channel or place we go to get our opinions, if that causes us to freeze up and hate other people, I think there' ; s something quite wrong with that. That' ; s very detrimental to the whole human being--the value that human beings have for nurturing one another, so that human beings grow and survive in a healthy way. GS: What do you think we could do to solve that? CE: I think we each have to take a step back and look at ourselves and see how are we doing that and how are we contributing to that, and to watch ourselves when we get caught up, because we all get caught up. We can step back, but we so easily get caught up again, I do. GS: Right CE: And so I have certain things I do every day or every couple of days that sort of I say keep your feet on the ground to help me do that with my own self. GS: That' ; s good. Is there anything else that you' ; d like to tell me today? CE: I' ; m very glad that everyone at the historical society worked so hard to get the grants in the first place, and to continue to find more grants to fund the oral history project, and for everyone who' ; s worked on it during the COVID time. And that I' ; m just really grateful for everybody' ; s efforts to add this wonderful element of oral history to our town. GS: Thank you very much. You' ; ve mentioned COVID, how has COVID affected you this year? CE: Dramatically, I' ; m not able to give tours at the Gilcrease museum, I' ; m not able to come here to the historical society and volunteer and sit in the board meetings, I' ; m not able to go among the people that I' ; m normally with and sit with them, not everybody wears a mask all the time, especially in our town and it' ; s kind of scary. My sister is in late stage cancer, and it affects whether or not I can go see her or not. GS: I understand CE: I' ; m in the older category of people, so I have to remember that and wear my mask and social distance and wash my hands all the time, and the hardest thing is not being able to see my sister when she was in rehab and not being able to visit people that need you in hospital and rehabs when they' ; re your family and you can' ; t go and nurture them. Not being able to hug people physically when everybody needs to be touched and feel love by hugging or at least seeing our families whenever we want to. Like even now, coming into the office here was emotional. I didn' ; t need to be emotional, but it was emotional because I' ; m able to sit here with you and have a conversation like we did before March-- GS: COVID CE: Of 2020 GS: And I have found that to be the case with several people I' ; ve interviewed. They have been so thankful for the companionship of someone else to talk to. It' ; s a sad time we' ; re going through. Well Carole, thank you so much for this CE: Thank you Georgia, this was a pleasure GS: I have learned so much and we appreciate you and everything you' ; ve done in our community so very much. CE: Well I appreciate you too and all that you all are doing to keep this going GS: Thank you Carole CE: Alright GS: Alright then. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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2900
Location
The location of the interview
Bristow, Oklahoma
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
64:15
Interview Keyword
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“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
sod house, statehood, home life, school, hospital, stores, art, Oklahoma City bombing, First Baptist Chuch
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Carole Ellis
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art.
Identifier
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OHP-2020-09
Date
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2020-11-12
Format
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
art
Bristow Public Schools
First Baptist Church
home life
hospital
Oklahoma City bombing
sod house
stores
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/2b75aa469e89b72787442e6006934532.jpg
0cdf1b8d736ca0c71ddfc66e9bdb61fc
Dublin Core
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Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Cecelia Wittman
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-03_Wittman,_Cecelia.xml
OHMS Object Text
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contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 August 18, 2020 OHP-2020-03 Cecelia Wittman OHP-2020-03 0:00-39:14 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Cecelia Wittman Georgia Smith MP3 1:|74(6)|96(3)|117(3)|142(6)|161(2)|181(16)|196(15)|211(14)|235(8)|253(13)|277(7)|295(5)|307(10)|325(8)|340(15)|350(10)|367(3)|389(6)|405(10)|437(2)|461(14)|476(12)|517(1)|534(11)|551(9)|571(14)|608(20)|634(8)|666(8)|704(10)|728(12)|742(14)|768(9)|793(12)|815(5)|852(5)|876(9)|895(1)|915(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHO-2020-03 Cecilia Wittman.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History CW: Okay GS: Okay, I’m sorry. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historic Society’s oral history project. The date is August 18th, 2020, and I am sitting here at the museum with Cecelia Wittman, who’s going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name please. CW: Cecelia Loraine Wittman (ph) GS: What was your name at birth? CW: Cecelia Loraine Nutt, N-U-T-T GS: And where were you born? CW: In Tahlequah, Oklahoma GS: Do you remember the hospital or at home? Barbara Jean Nutt ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Cecelia Loraine Nutt ; Cecelia Loraine Wittman ; Cecelia Wittman ; Connie Sue Nutt ; Conniesenny Tiger ; Etna, Oklahoma ; George Wade Wittman ; Georgia Smith ; Hastings Indian Hospital ; Hershel Quintin Nutt ; Jeramiah Joseph Wittman ; Joe'B Nutt ; Lacricia Joe Nutt ; Martha Yarbrough ; Tahlequah, Oklahoma 235 Tiger Mansion GS: Okay, now tell me about what brought you in today to see me CW: Well I wanted to talk about my grandmother’s house that was built in 1925, and I don’t— GS: And who is your grandmother? CW: Her name was Conniesenny Tiger, she would’ve been my great grandmother, and she—this was a part of the original allotment where the house is built, and back in the—with the removal act from when everybody was removed from the southeast, they were brought here and then the, all the Indians were brought here for, which you would refer to Native Americans today, but we still say we’re Indian because we’re the natives of this time. We’re still in this era, this age group that I live in, and— GS: Was your grandmother part of the journey, great grandmother? CW: Yes, my great grandmother was. She said that she was—she was Conniesenny Bristow, Oklahoma ; Bureau of Indian Affairs ; Conniesenny Tiger ; Dawes Act ; Hannah Brown ; Indian Department ; John Wesley ; Lomus ; Lumous ; Ma Smith ; Martha Marie Brown ; Mr. Smith ; Mrs. Smith ; Original Allotment ; Porter Tiger ; Tiger Mansion ; Yuchi 1440 Indian Culture GS: You were gonna tell me a little about the Indian Culture around here CW: Oh I’m sorry about that GS: No that’s—you’re fine! CW: The culture here is still strong today, it is—there’s still ceremonial ground that is out here south of town and, which is referred to as Iron Post, or there was an original ceremonial ground that was called Sand Creek, so now younger generation refers to this particular Iron Post as Sand Creek so it’s kind of changed along the way, but there’s still thick native Yuchi culture here out of Bristow and Kellyville between here and Mounds GS: And what do they do there? CW: Oh we have our green corn ceremonial, we have green corn ceremonies here, and all of the—it’s a fasting where you fast and pray and dance and sing and all these things that you go then we celebrate with fresh green corn and tomatoes, you know, everything all of your fresh fruits and vegetables at that time of year. And it’s usually done in July and August GS: That’s—you know I’ve lived here all my life and never heard of that Absente Shawnees ; Destin, Florida ; Ethaline Washburn ; Gelenium ; Green Corn Ceremonial ; Iron Post ; Lucian Tiger ; Lucian Tiger III ; Pensacola, Florida ; Sac and Fox ; Sand Creek ; Yuchi ; Yuchi Community https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=YU001 Yuchi 1730 Memories of Bristow and Church Life GS: Okay let’s see, okay you told me that you have memories of visiting here because you weren’t raised in Bristow CW: Nuh-uh GS: But your grandmother was, your mother was? CW: And my husband was from Bristow GS: Okay CW: He was actually from Bristow from Gipsy corner, my husband was so yeah I have those families from him as well as from his family, but when I was a child, we would come back to visit his family GS: Okay CW: So— GS: So you knew his family Ah-La-Quan ; Anchor-In ; Christian ; Conniesenny ; Conniesenny Tiger ; CR Anthonys ; Ethaline Washburn ; Polly Long https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22443141/polly-ah-la-quan-long Polly Long 2093 Family History GS: Who was the last relative of yours to own that house? CW: Hannah Brown (ph) GS: Hannah Brown, and she was your grandmother? CW: Mhm GS: And she married who? CW: She married Joe Yarbrough (ph) GS: And was he Indian also? CW: Yes, but he was from—there was not no recording of that, you know back then when you got divorced or when you got mad or whatever, you just said you’re a half GS: Oh okay CW: So it was one of those deals, there was a divorce Hannah Brown ; Joe Yarbrough ; Methodist Church ; Newbie In this 2020 interview, Cecelia Wittman shares her families history in the Bristow area. She discusses the Tiger Mansion and Indian Culture. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Cecelia Wittman Other Persons: Date of Interview: August 18, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-03 at 00:00 to 39:14 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. CW: Okay GS: Okay, I' ; m sorry. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historic Society' ; s oral history project. The date is August 18th, 2020, and I am sitting here at the museum with Cecelia Wittman, who' ; s going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name please. CW: Cecelia Loraine Wittman (ph) GS: What was your name at birth? CW: Cecelia Loraine Nutt, N-U-T-T GS: And where were you born? CW: In Tahlequah, Oklahoma GS: Do you remember the hospital or at home? CW: Hastings, Hastings Indian Hospital GS: Again, you were born on what date? CW: February the 20th in 1958 GS: And what was your father' ; s name? CW: Hershel Quintin Nutt (ph) GS: And your mother' ; s maiden name? CW: Her name was Martha Yarbrough (ph) GS: And do you know when they--when and where they were married? CW: No, it was in the 1940' ; s GS: Okay, and why did they come to Oklahoma? CW: Well, my father was from out in western Oklahoma, and my mother was born here, so. GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have? CW: There was five of us GS: And what are your siblings' ; names? CW: My oldest sister was Connie--Connie Sue Nutt (ph), and she was named after Conniesenny Tiger (ph), my great Grandmother. And she was born in 1949, so. Then I have another sister, her name is Lacricia Joe Nutt (ph), and then a brother, which was Joe' ; B Nutt, it' ; s J-O-E Apostrophe B, just Joe' ; B GS: Thank you CW: Nutt, and my youngest sister, and then it was me, which I' ; m Cecelia and my youngest sister is Barbara Jean Nutt (ph), there was five of us. GS: Nice family, what did your father do? CW: He was a--a bull rider, bronc rider, he was a rodeo performer and before that, he was a jockey and--but he was raised on a cotton farm out in Etna, Oklahoma GS: How exciting, how interesting. What did your mother do? CW: He--But he was a welder--he was a welder by trade though, later on he became a welder. GS: Okay, very good. CW: The end, in the end he was a welder. My mother she was a house wife and she worked all over, she did everything and different things, but mainly she was a homemaker. But back in those days, you know, then she worked at different places along the way and she ended up retiring and working for this school system as a custodian in Glenpool, she retired there for 20 years. GS: Very--when was she at Glenpool? CW: Let' ; s see, in 1980? From 19 maybe 79, late 70' ; s till she retired. GS: Okay, okay. What is your spouse' ; s name? CW: His name was George Wade Wittman, he' ; s deceased. But it' ; s George Wade Wittman Jr. GS: Okay, and what year did you get, or when did you get married? CW: We got married August the 29th of 1989. GS: Aw, your anniversary' ; s coming up CW: Yes, it is GS: How many children did you have? CW: We had four, he had one son and I had two sons. It was both our second marriage and then between us, we had our youngest son, which was Jeramiah Joseph Wittman (ph). GS: Okay, now tell me about what brought you in today to see me CW: Well I wanted to talk about my grandmother' ; s house that was built in 1925, and I don' ; t-- GS: And who is your grandmother? CW: Her name was Conniesenny Tiger, she would' ; ve been my great grandmother, and she--this was a part of the original allotment where the house is built, and back in the--with the removal act from when everybody was removed from the southeast, they were brought here and then the, all the Indians were brought here for, which you would refer to Native Americans today, but we still say we' ; re Indian because we' ; re the natives of this time. We' ; re still in this era, this age group that I live in, and-- GS: Was your grandmother part of the journey, great grandmother? CW: Yes, my great grandmother was. She said that she was--she was Conniesenny GS: Conniesenny CW: Senny, and she was--yes she was. And my mother said she arrived here when she was 9, when she was 9 years old she-- GS: She made that trek when she was 9? CW: She arrived when she was 9, so we don' ; t know anything prior to that GS: Would you spell Conniesennys' ; name for our typist? CW: Yes, let me get the card, let me see if I brought it. It' ; s C-O-N-N-I-E-S-E-N-N-Y GS: Tiger CW: Tiger, T-I-G-E-R GS: Okay, very good. Okay well tell me about all of your memories of your grandmother Conniesenny CW: Well I have no actual memories ; I just have stories to where what is related to my mother. She was--my mother was born in 1923 and so she was raised in the house that Conniesenny had built GS: And where is that house? CW: That is actually--it' ; s 5.3, I think 5.3 miles south of Bristow, and I was told, so of course she had the original allotment, and back then you were allotted 160 acres. Each individual native American was allotted this called the Original Allotment, and she was an allottee, so this was her land and they struck oil on this land and then this-- GS: That' ; s marvelous CW: Yes, it was marvelous, and anyway according to the history, they said that what we would call the Bureau of Indian Affairs today, but it was called the Indian Department back then GS: Okay CW: Had, I guess they had their own architects and their own builders and their own people that went in and built different homes for native Americans, and she had this house built in 1925, according to History I think, I don' ; t know. GS: Was this before or after she struck oil? CW: It was after she struck oil, so prior to that, and 1889 to I think 1906 is when they had the Dawes act (ph) was in commission and they began to record the history. At that time, they each individual had their row numbers and where their allotment was and where they were enrolled at, there was a census just like it is now, the 2020 census is going on, this census was taken for the Indians. But they kept track of all the Indians at that point. GS: Okay CW: So they were allotted this land through that row number, and so they were registered and had their allotments. Actually I think their allotments were given out before the enrollment. Anyway, she was, this land was hers and she--and years later, ' ; cus she was enrolled I think in 18, in the 1890' ; s, I wanna say 1896 she was enrolled, she was already--she had already received her row number at this time, that' ; s why she was documented GS: How old was she then? Do you-- CW: It does--it says she was 45 at that time and age GS: So had she been living south of Bristow? CW: We don' ; t know where, I don' ; t know GS: You don' ; t know where CW: I don' ; t know when--I need to do some more digging and find out myself to where she--when she was actually allotted the land, I don' ; t know that part, I don' ; t know that date, and I don' ; t know what time frame there was between her--for her age, what her marriage she was, and all that type of, before she had the house built. GS: Okay CW: Because she was 45 in the late 1890' ; s and so she died in 1944 GS: Okay CW: So the house was built in 1925 GS: Okay CW: So they struck oil on her land and at that point and time, and fast forward, so my mother was raised in that house, my grandmother was born on 1905 and there' ; s a whole other history that goes with that, and so my mother was born in 1923, and her siblings, she had--there was Martha Marie and John Wesley and they were all three raised, they were Hannah Browns (ph), my grandmother was Hannah Brown and she was shown, three children were raised there in that house, which one of those were my mother. GS: In Conniesenny Tigers house CW: In Conniesenny Tigers house GS: Okay CW: And my mother was her translator because my mother had gone to school because she was a full blood Yuchi, I need to probably specify that. They were all full bloods and my mother wasn' ; t a full blood, but my grandmother, my great grandmother were full blood Yuchi GS: That' ; s--That is awesome CW: And so my mother and her siblings were raised in this house so she was the oldest of the three, my mother was. And they just all through life and I don' ; t think they sold the house until in the late 50' ; s, before they sold the house. GS: Now were you ever in that house as a child? CW: No, I just remember coming by there as a child growing up and as I was returning back to Bristow, because by this time we had moved to Muscogee, and life goes on and my brother and my other sisters they were--they could have been but, and my oldest sister, she was born in 1949 and yes, she was there. She had memories, she just recently passed away this past June. GS: Aw, I' ; m sorry CW: I lost her in June of 2020, she passed away, but she grew--so when we got the house back, she was just amazed, she remembered all the memories of playing in the barn and in the house, what the house looked like, everything, all of her childhood memories. So she was there but I wasn' ; t GS: Now I have heard that this house has been called the Tiger mansion, can you describe it to me, the house? CW: Well, it' ; s a very sound. It' ; s so well built, it was built to last and I remember the story that my mother said that Conniesenny told her which she called her grandma, she didn' ; t call her Conniesenny, she called her--she said " ; grandma tell me" ; , she wanted this house to last a lifetime, a hundred years. Build it to where it will last a hundred years is what she was thinking, and it has lasted a hundred years, it' ; s still well built, it' ; s very sound, still the beautiful concrete pillars. It' ; s a brick home, it' ; s a large three bedroom, has a huge basement, and it has six windows in each room, all this original wood is still there, the original doors, the original hardware, the original flooring, everything it' ; s just--it' ; s just still beautiful, beautiful as it' ; s ever been. The baseboard, everything' ; s still original. GS: And you were fortunate to be able to purchase this recently CW: Yes, I was, yes I was. And the people that had it previously, they did sell I think two or three times before [Indecipherable] was able to Lomous (ph), or Lumous (ph), I' ; m not sure how you pronounce it, her and her husband was Jack and they purchased it and they were caretakers, they--it was their home, you know. They treasured it, they took well care of it, and it was just preserved and that was dated, very dated in the kitchen. But apart from that, because it' ; d been remodeled and sort of 80' ; s stuff, 70' ; s and 80' ; s but, you know, apart from all that, it' ; s just a beautiful. The land itself is beautiful, the original fence is still there. Conniesenny, she also had a, this being her original allotment, she allotted one and a half acres to be our families cemetery, and it' ; s still fenced off to this day with the exact same fencing that' ; s around the house that the property sits on. GS: How many family members do you have buried there? CW: Oh a good twenty, a good twenty people GS: That is wonderful CW: My mother' ; s there, my grandma Conniesenny' ; s there, my husband' ; s there, my father' ; s there, my uncles, my aunts, everyone there. Of any importance ; my mother-in-law is buried there, yeah it' ; s a beautiful family and family history there. GS: Can you tell-- it gets emotional, does it yeah? CW: Yeah, yeah it does GS: Can you tell me anything about, you might not know since you weren' ; t here then, but about the Indian culture that was south of town at that time? CW: Well now the culture goes deeper than people even know and realize that it' ; s still there today, not only just within the property, so I' ; ll back up here a little bit. So the 160 acres had already been--some of it had been sold off in the 50' ; s, like I said when they sold the house, and they' ; d been divided up I think like in the, oh I' ; m not sure exactly what year all this had transpired, but there' ; s different sections of the land has-- is, was gone, but there was still the 40 acres that the house sits on now. And that Jack and Burla (ph) were able to purchase. So it' ; s the house and 40 acres, and so after Burla back to the house, she--a little bit of the history here, she I think ended up going to a retirement home or something and then after she lost her husband, and then she stayed there for years by herself. Well she--my nephew and different ones would stop in, my sister, different ones and I always stopped in and visited her and ask her if, how she was and if they could see the house because there was so much nostalgic memories that go there. My mother' ; s memories have been there with my dad and him proposing to her and all kinds of beautiful memories that go there. And anyway, so we were able to purchase it again, it came up for sale but they hadn' ; t listed it on the market yet and we had always requested that if you please, if anybody decides to sell it, please let us know before it goes out so we can get it back into our family. GS: Yes CW: And as it turns out, my husband and I went down in October and, of 2018. We went down there 2018 and we said " ; Oh let' ; s go see it, let' ; s go see it" ; and the opportunity came so we went and he said " ; Yeah, let' ; s do it, you think you wanna do it?" ; I said " ; Of course you know I wanna do it" ; GS: (Laughing) CW: And so of course we were happy and I was able to get a few pictures that day with my husband and I and little did I know that a few months later that he would pass away GS: Oh CW: So-- GS: I' ; m sorry, know it' ; s hard. How long were you married? CW: 35 years GS: 35 years is a long time. CW: Yeah. I have it, I have it right here. GS: Okay, I was trying to look around to see if I had Kleenex CW: I' ; m sorry, I' ; m sorry about that GS: No, you' ; re fine. CW: So my sons, of course by this time [Indecipherable] my husband had a stroke in 2016 and I resigned from my job to take care of him and so--and in 2018 like I said, we decided to purchase the house and we put a down payment on it and everything so one thing happened with the other then we went into the holidays, November, December, ya know. But January he got sick and went to the hospital, and he died February the 8th of 2019, and so we were in the process of selling our other house to get everything done, and so my sons, I have two older sons, and they picked up the ball and-- GS: Bless their hearts CW: They knew I couldn' ; t do it financially by myself, now when my husband was here we could' ; ve done it GS: Right CW: But he had retired from the American Airlines and had other incomes so, but my sons were able to pick up the ball and purchase it for us, and I moved there now and my sons and I are all entitled together--without my husband, but I' ; m there GS: That' ; s wonderful CW: And he' ; s down the road at the cemetery GS: That' ; s right CW: And that comforts me GS: He' ; s close CW: He' ; s very close GS: Yes, he is CW: So him and my mother and my dad and everyone so I' ; m there with everyone, and I live there in the house and it' ; s, it' ; s just absolutely beautiful. The house is beautiful, and I remember them calling it, referring--I' ; m probably talking too much GS: No you' ; re fine, not at all CW: I remember them referring to it as the Tiger mansion when I was growing up, just the different nostalgic stories that my mother would just say " ; Oh we would do this, and oh we would do that" ; and you know, they had--they had what we would refer to as a nanny today and a housekeeper, she was a live in and her name was Ma Smith, she was a black lady. And her and her husband was Mr. Smith, I don' ; t remember his first name ' ; cus momma never called him by his--she always called him Mr. Smith. GS: Mr. Smith CW: Mr. and Mrs. Smith GS: Very respectful CW: Yeah she didn' ; t call Mrs. Smith ' ; Misses' ; , she always called her Ma, Ma Smith. Maybe they called him Paul, I don' ; t know, but I don' ; t remember that. I always say Mr. Smith and Ma Smith but I would refer to her husband as ' ; Alright now, Mr. Smith' ; s gonna be coming in pretty soon and so you girls need to do this' ; because she was their nanny and momma said she bathed them and took care of them, but she was a live in because she--now there was a servants' ; quarters there on the property, but they didn' ; t live there, they lived in the basement GS: Okay CW: So she could be near Conniesenny in case she needed anything GS: Oh CW: And she was the caretaker, she did everything. She did the cooking and took care of the--her, whatever her needs were, she was there and helped with the kids and helped with raising my mother. GS: How wonderful CW: And she was very hands on and very affectionate. And so Mr. Smith was the groundskeepers and now I know why he, they had a full time groundskeeper, because it' ; s a lot, it' ; s a lot to keep all, everything done and we have weed eaters nowadays and he did it by hand, but at that point in time, there was a fenced in area that was like an orchard and so there was fruit trees and gardening and all of those things that they had. And so anyway, but I think this was the first house to have indoor plumbing S: Oh CW: So it had indoor plumbing and my--the story goes, now this is what my mother told me, that Conniesenny Tiger paid to have the, the first one to pay to have the electric strung five miles, and so the electric that' ; s out there now, everyone has benefited throughout the years because she' ; s the one that had it installed GS: Because she got it started, well I imagine that' ; s true, she had the money to do it. CW: Yes, she did, she did. GS: That' ; s exciting CW: Yeah, and they said that when she died, she had six hundred thousand dollars in her checking account GS: Wow CW: Not what she was worth, because they house, the land, everything that went all together and that day was, of course, doesn' ; t even account for today' ; s money GS: No, yeah CW: But back then, that was a lot of money GS: I' ; m sure, so was that money then distributed to your mother CW: Yes GS: And CW: No, not my mother GS: Your grandmother CW: My grandmother GS: Yes CW: So my grandmother had another son, his name was--his name was Porter Tiger, and so they had a real soft spot in their heart for the depot because he was killed in Colorado and that took his body--took them two weeks to get his body shipped back to Bristow GS: And they did it by rail? CW: They did it by rail, and he came here and they and to come to the train station and pick him up, and so it just broke my grandmothers heart, her heart was just broke, and my great grandmother--I said my grandmother, but it' ; s my great grandmother GS: Conniesenny CW: Conniesenny, yes. Her heart was just broken, and he has two children. He had two children, still does, so--or he has great grandchildren and great grandchildren from her two as well, and she had--so it was the land and, but my grandmother, Hannah Brown (ph) was able to get the house and the land, she inherited that and I think the money and different parts, different sections of that land was inherited to the Porter Tigers children GS: Okay, okay, so that' ; s when it started getting divided up? CW: Yes, after her death so [Indecipherable] GS: You were gonna tell me a little about the Indian Culture around here CW: Oh I' ; m sorry about that GS: No that' ; s--you' ; re fine! CW: The culture here is still strong today, it is--there' ; s still ceremonial ground that is out here south of town and, which is referred to as Iron Post, or there was an original ceremonial ground that was called Sand Creek, so now younger generation refers to this particular Iron Post as Sand Creek so it' ; s kind of changed along the way, but there' ; s still thick native Yuchi culture here out of Bristow and Kellyville between here and Mounds GS: And what do they do there? CW: Oh we have our green corn ceremonial, we have green corn ceremonies here, and all of the--it' ; s a fasting where you fast and pray and dance and sing and all these things that you go then we celebrate with fresh green corn and tomatoes, you know, everything all of your fresh fruits and vegetables at that time of year. And it' ; s usually done in July and August GS: That' ; s--you know I' ; ve lived here all my life and never heard of that CW: Well there' ; s a full blood Yuchi community in Bristow, it' ; s one of the largest ones where everyone if you were from the area, you know between here and--there was a lot of Yuchis that married in with the Sac and Foxes and the Absente Shawnees is as well GS: Are the Yuchis creek, or is that separate? CW: It' ; s actually separate GS: Okay CW: They were--they were band together with the creeks back during the removal, so back then you were just Indian. It didn' ; t matter what you were, you' ; re so--but the majority of, so when they were band together during the removal, they were moved with the creeks because we were neighbors back in the homeland GS: Do you know what state your grandmother Conniesenny came from? CW: Georgia GS: She did come from Georgia, that' ; s very interesting CW: Yeah it' ; s from Georgia GS: Okay CW: So there was the northers Yuchis and the lower Yuchis, southern Yuchis, the northern and the southern since you had the Yuchis that was up in the Appalachians so those were like the northern ones and then you have the southern ones GS: Okay. I never knew that. CW: Close to it GS: Very nice CW: It stretches all the way around from all the way down like where Pensacola and Destin Florida is today GS: Yes CW: Yeah GS: Wow CW: All the way there, all the way. Then once you start getting into Alabama, there was the Georgia, the creeks were there in Georgia as well. But all through Georgia and Alabama was creeks and the Tennessee GS: Fascinating, just fascinating CW: It goes all the way to the east coast all the way back, so there was a huge, huge-- GS: So the Yuchi nation was a big tribe CW: It was--yes and our language is still alive, not it' ; s almost extinct to this day, but there is a younger generation that has really grasped hold and had become faithful and steadfast and we have two elders right now that are still full blood, living full blood. GS: Oh that' ; s marvelous. CW: Yeah it' ; s still, and there' ; s some right here in Bristow is Ethaline Washburn (ph), she' ; s still alive and well and just a beautiful, beautiful lady. GS: She' ; s probably someone we should interview CW: Yeah, you probably should. And she' ; ll say " ; Oh I don' ; t know about that" ; if you know, she said, she' ; s very modest about it, but she was very, very wise. GS: Do you have relatives still living here in Bristow? CW: No I don' ; t GS: Okay, because when we heard the name Tiger we thought " ; Well there' ; s some tigers" ; we' ; ve heard the name tiger in this area CW: Okay so now that they' ; re, they are Conniesenny descendants first for the Tiger, Lucian Tiger, Lucian Tiger the III, they are her grandchildren and great grandchildren. GS: So they' ; re distant relatives to you maybe CW: Yes, to me, but to her they' ; re direct descendants GS: Right, are they still here? CW: Yes, uh-huh yes GS: Okay, yeah, that' ; s what I was asking. CW: Yes, okay so they--they mainly bond, I' ; m sure they bonded with Conniesenny too, but they had their own history here through their mothers' ; side GS: Okay CW: [Indecipherable] And a lot of them made, like that' ; s how the enrollment goes, and any most of your upper whatever, usually followed by the mother [Indecipherable] GS: I' ; ve read that, I just love that, yeah CW: Everything' ; s about Gelenium (ph), and like if you' ; re gonna go with your clan or you' ; re gonna go you follow your mothers clan. (Laughter) GS: The woman in me loves that CW: Yes GS: Okay let' ; s see, okay you told me that you have memories of visiting here because you weren' ; t raised in Bristow CW: Nuh-uh GS: But your grandmother was, your mother was? CW: And my husband was from Bristow GS: Okay CW: He was actually from Bristow from Gipsy corner, my husband was so yeah I have those families from him as well as from his family, but when I was a child, we would come back to visit his family GS: Okay CW: So-- GS: So you knew his family CW: Yes, yes. GS: Well before you every were romantically involved with him CW: Yes, he' ; s Yuchi too GS: Okay CW: We' ; re all--they were all Yuchis, all of them. There' ; s a Yuchi committee that, like the [Indecipherable] Church GS: Yes CW: Okay so anyway, my mother and my grandmother we would always come back here to visit their friends, I don' ; t know, I couldn' ; t tell you there' ; s certain friends, but like one lady was a seamstresses, and we' ; d come back here to pick up the quilts or whatever, or we would come back to go to the ceremonial dances that they had, but anytime we would come to eat, and I would remember coming through town and all of the, you know brick streets, I just loved that as a kid being in the back seat loving that, and I remember them talking about a CR Anthonys that was here on Main Street, I remember just all the old buildings and going in and out of the stores, but I don' ; t remember the names of them. GS: Yeah CW: The pool hall, seems like I remember where there was a pool hall GS: There was, there were a couple right up there CW: Yeah, so I remember that as a child coming through there and the Anchor-In where the hamburgers were, so it' ; s coming back forward another twenty years you know, but-- GS: Well we' ; re so glad that you' ; ve moved back here CW: Oh gosh I am too, I am too. GS: And it' ; s nice, do you have any of your husbands' ; relatives who live around here that you know? CW: They don' ; t live here, no they live in Norman and in Oklahoma City, but they were raised here, they were raised here. When their grandmother, their mother and grandmother passed away, they moved away. They moved away actually before the grandmother passed away, but they of course came back every weekend I remember to always see her because she was a pillar here in the community as well. She, her name was Polly LongGS: Polly Long CW: She was, her native name was Ah-La-Quan and so she lived here for years. She couldn' ; t speak English either, and they chose not to, you know back then they chose not to because they had it so hard, they knew what others were attempting to say but all of her-- she raised three boys, they were her grandsons, she raised them all here. And you know back then the mothers would have to leave home and go off to work if they weren' ; t married, so. And then anyway as time goes on-- GS: Okay let me see, now since you' ; re not from Bristow, I' ; m gonna concentrate on some other area here CW: Okay GS: Church life, your grandmother or any of them, did they attend church, were they religious people? CW: Yes, they were, she was a devout Christian number one, and they-- back then they didn' ; t have church homes, houses, church buildings, a place of worship all over, so back then you traveled to your home to have church GS: I' ; ve heard that CW: So I have pictures of them having church inside the house where I lived now, she had church every--all the time so I have pictures in there in front of the fireplace that still exist today, the exact same windows and everything is in the pictures, GS: We would probably love to have a digital copy of that if you wouldn' ; t mind CW: And my--the lady I mentioned Ethaline Washburn (ph) was in that picture, and my husband was in that picture GS: Aw CW: At that particular church service, he showed one picture of the pastor standing at the pulpit and preaching and the ladies having their hymnals out and singing and then you have another one of them against the wall back over to the dining room where they had the chairs set up for church, and my husband was sitting right in the middle of the row GS: And about how old was he? CW: He was about six, maybe seven. Six or seven GS: Oh how wonderful, how wonderful is that picture! Oh we would love to have a CW: Copy of that GS: A digital copy of that if it' ; s possible, I love that. CW: We have pictures of Conniesenny, she' ; s just a beautiful and the things about it is, we don' ; t know when this picture was taken, but it was taken there in the house GS: The one where your husband was six, or are you talking about a different picture? CW: I' ; m talking about a different picture GS: Oh CW: We have a portrait of Conniesenny Tiger herself, yes it' ; s beautiful. GS: Yeah we would love to have that too CW: Yes, that' ; s beautiful. But all of our childhood memories and all the pictures that my mother would talk about that she could just get the nostalgic, you know somedays she she' ; d just sit there and cry because of her memories that was taken place there at the house and when grandma did this and grandma did that and how grandma was and what they had for supper or you know, just things like that and my--all of the family photos that we have are all taken there at the house with the same entrance, everything' ; s still exactly the same, the front entrance, the from steps, everybody took pictures there GS: It was the gathering place for your family CW: It was, it was. And then we said when we were able to come back and purchase it, we said you know, 70 years since this bloodline has been back in the house GS: Who was the last relative of yours to own that house? CW: Hannah Brown (ph) GS: Hannah Brown, and she was your grandmother? CW: Mhm GS: And she married who? CW: She married Joe Yarbrough (ph) GS: And was he Indian also? CW: Yes, but he was from--there was not no recording of that, you know back then when you got divorced or when you got mad or whatever, you just said you' ; re a half GS: Oh okay CW: So it was one of those deals, there was a divorce GS: Okay CW: And, but he was from Newbie? GS: Yes CW: I think he was from around Newbie GS: Okay, okay. CW: I don' ; t know any, I don' ; t remember--now my mother remembered just talking about his mother, which would have been her grandmother, but I can' ; t, we can' ; t remember her--their names. We don' ; t know who they were or, you know. Some things you just as a kid don' ; t ask, and then even when you got older, before momma died, we-- GS: You don' ; t think to ask until it' ; s too late CW: Until it' ; s too late, it is not as important as it is now GS: Exactly, exactly. What about holidays, what kind of festivities did they have at holidays like Christmas and Easter? CW: Just the same thing GS: Same thing CW: The same just like everybody else did GS: yeah CW: Yeah, my mom always had a tree and my grandmother always seen to it. Back then, we used to come, I remember coming as a child to my lucky Methodist church out here and her bringing--we' ; d come from Muskogee and she' ; d bring baskets of--baskets of oranges and baskets of apples to help set, pass out for the candy sacks for the bags of candy, and she would do stuff like that. GS: That' ; s wonderful. CW: But we would always come back to Bristow GS: Was your grandmother Conniesenny benevolent with her money? CW: I' ; m not really sure, I' ; m not really sure, but I just know that on one hand, she was very free hearted and on the other hand it was always like--actually things were just stolen from her, just stolen. Her money, her mineral rights, everything. It was a lot that was stolen. It was underhanded things that happened. GS: From--from family members CW: No, no GS: or from other [Indecipherable]? CW: Yeah ' ; cus back then, you had to guardians over your money, and then like, they took like over half of her fortune. So it was, it was a lot--it was a lot of hard--I hate that part to be recorded, so I mean it' ; s deeper than you can imagine, but whenever she signed her oil lease away, she was thinking she was selling it and my mother was not there to interpret for her that particular day GS: They took advantage of her CW: They--oh yeah, they actually conned her into signing away her mineral rights, they stole her oil. And so I' ; m sure she was grieved, can you imagine how grieved she was, so you don' ; t know when that took place, we don' ; t know how it did but it' ; s gone now, it' ; s all gone. My mother, we still have a portion of royalties but it' ; s not a lot. And then they act like that we' ; re--I mean it' ; s just too much to put on tape, so. GS: I' ; m sorry. CW: Yeah it' ; s a lot GS: I' ; m so sorry CW: Yeah. When my mother, when my grandmother when I was a child, I remembered going and sitting at in Tulsa in the car all day long and, because the guardian wasn' ; t gonna give her any of her money, and she said " ; well he thinks I' ; m not--" ; GS: Was it because she was Indian? CW: Oh yeah it was because she was Indian, and you know they had kept her money, they guarded the money, they had the government set up to where they appointed guardians over individual people since they thought they were ignorant and dumb Indians, so that' ; s what they did they just, you know, so Indians and dogs are the only ones that are registered with a dog tag with a number on it. If you registered, that' ; s how you get registered. So back then, they had--they took care of all their individual-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-03_Wittman,_Cecelia.xml OHP-2020-03_Wittman,_Cecelia.xml
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Title
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Cecelia Wittman
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Cecelia Wittman shares her families history in the Bristow area. She discusses the Tiger Mansion and Indian Culture.
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OHP-2020-03
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2020-08-18
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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English
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sound, oral history
Dawes Act
Iron Post
Native American allotment
Native American guardianship
Native American removal
stomp grounds
Yuchi
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
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Charles Nicholson
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6.0 May 9, 2025 OHP-0071 Charles Nicholson OHP-0071 01:03:22 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Charles Nicholson Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0071 Nicholson, Charles.mp3 Other audio 0 Background Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is May 9, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Charles Nicholson, which I'll probably call him Coach, at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 00:27
 ; Charles Franklin Nicholson.
 ; Charles Franklin Nicholson was born on January 12, 1937. He was born in Muskogee, Oklahoma at the Baptist Hospital. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Charles Franklin Nicholson ; Muskogee (Okla.) Birth 0 ["[\"\"]"] 48 Parents Regan Siler 00:48
 ; Okay, and can you tell me about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell me your mom and dad's full names? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 01:00
 ; Freddie Lahoma Nicholson [Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson 4/4/1911-11/1/2008] and Harold Franklin Nicholson [11/1/1909-5/13/1991].
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:07
 ; Okay, and I have Freddie, your mother's date of birth, as April 4, 1911. And I have your dad, Harold Nicholson's birth date, as November 1, 1909. I looked those up so we wouldn't
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 01:21
 ; Oh, okay.
 ; Charles' father was Harold Franklin Nicholson. He was born on November 1, 1909. Harold passed on May 13, 1991. Charles' mother was Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson. She was born on April 4, 1911. She passed on November 1, 2008. Charles' mother taught second grade most of her life. His father was a coach and a superintendent of schools. Charles was an only child. Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Northeastern State College (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) Parents 0 ["[\"\"]"] 150 Extended Family Regan Siler 02:30
 ; Okay. Did you get to grow up around family?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 02:35
 ; Yes, our family was mostly from Warner, Oklahoma, and we lived around Muskogee all of our lives. Bristow is the furthest place from Muskogee that I've ever lived.
 ; Most of Charles' extended family lived close in Warner, Oklahoma. Charles was around Muskogee all of his childhood. Bristow is the furthest he has lived from there. Warner (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Family 0 ["[\"\"]"] 183 Childhood Regan Siler 03:03
 ; Oh, my goodness, okay. Um, so you came, or actually, first, let's talk about your childhood and your home life. I'm going to ask you, just kind of some fun questions to see if you
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 03:19
 ; Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 03:19
 ; See if you can remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played as a as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 03:28
 ; Yes, a pedal car.
 ; Charles had a pedal car as a child. Charles spent a lot of time outside. His job was to keep the cars clean. Charles also spent time outside playing baseball, tennis and basketball with his friends. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Baseball ; Tennis ; Basketball Childhood 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 291 Tennis Matches Regan Siler 04:51
 ; So, and I'm going to jump ahead a little bit, but I found it funny because your daughter was telling me about you, your adventures in getting to some of your tennis matches. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 05:06
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 05:07
 ; It's not like it is today.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 05:09
 ; So, tell me, tell me a little bit about trying to get to a tennis match or what they would do.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 05:09
 ; Right.
 ; Charles had his first tennis match in Oklahoma City when he was 16. It was at the Oklahoma City University. He had gained the nickname Uncle Vic by smaller players in Muskogee. Tennis ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City University ; Muskogee (Okla.) Tennis 0 ["[\"\"]"] 413 Childhood Activities and Collecting Things Regan Siler 06:53
 ; Especially whenever you're trying to navigate Oklahoma City as a 16 year old. So did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 07:08
 ; Dad had a shop also, and we had a scroll saw they call nowadays, and we use that to make things. And I learned to make things, and I do that today for Christmas. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 07:24
 ; So, like, wood things? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 07:25
 ; Yes, sawing wood.
 ; Charles' father had a shop, and they worked with a scroll saw to make things. Charles still enjoys woodworking as a hobby. Charles has his tennis medals and trophies in his attic. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Christmas ; Tennis Hobbies 0 ["[\"\"]"] 486 School Regan Siler 08:06
 ; Okay, okay, so can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:15
 ; I first attended school at, well, I don't remember.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:28
 ; That's okay. Did you were you said you lived mainly in Muskogee?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:33
 ; Yeah. I lived in, yeah. I guess, oh, Wagoner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:41
 ; Wagoner?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:41
 ; My mom was second, huh, my mom was second grade teacher.
 ; Charles attended school in Wagoner, Oklahoma. His mother taught him in second grade. Charles enjoyed school. Muskogee (Okla.) ; Wagoner (Okla.) ; Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson School 0 ["[\"\"]"] 538 Clubs and Organizations Regan Siler 08:58
 ; Okay, now I'm asking if you were a member of any clubs or organizations. Obviously, you played a lot of sports, but were you involved in any other organization? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 09:10
 ; 4H club. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 09:12
 ; 4h, okay. Go ahead.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 09:16
 ; I raised three hogs in the backyard. And in a square made out of wood and fence. And I moved that along so when they wore the grass out, they would have more grass.
 ; Charles was involved in the 4H-club in school. He raised three hogs in his backyard. When Charles took the hogs to the fair, they got away and ran over the judge. 4H-Club Clubs ; Organizations 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 594 Tennis Regan Siler 09:54
 ; Um, okay, so we're going to circle back to tennis. So, it's my understanding that you were ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under, and you were ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings, and then you were the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Does that sound right?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:17
 ; Yes for there were two classes, A and B.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:20
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:21
 ; And, of course B, A was Tulsa and Muskogee and Ada, and there was a B class. That's all there was.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:34
 ; So, do you feel that you got your love of sports from your dad?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:40
 ; That was my job.
 ; Charles was ranked number one in Oklahoma for tennis 15 and under. He was also ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings. Charles was the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Charles was told by his father when he was young that sports was his job. Oklahoma ; Oklahoma State Tennis Singles ; Midwest Doubles ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Ada (Okla.) ; Harold Franklin Nicholson Tennis 0 ["[\"\"]"] 774 School Regan Siler 12:54
 ; Okay. Okay, so back on school, did you enjoy reading? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 13:05
 ; Not really.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:06
 ; Not really. I I'm kind of with you on that. Um, do you remember if you, like, ate in the cafeteria, or did you take your lunch when you were a youngster?
 ; Around the fourth grade, Charles started riding to school with his father. His father was the superintendent and coach at Okay Public Schools. So, Charles attended there for the rest of his schooling. School ; Wagoner (Okla.) ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Superintendent ; Coach ; Okay Public Schools ; Elementary ; High School School 0 ["[\"\"]"] 840 Childhood Home Regan Siler 14:00
 ; Okay, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 14:10
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:11
 ; Can you, you said you lived in town? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 14:13
 ; Yes, we lived in Wagner.
 ; Charles grew up in a two-story home in Wagoner, Oklahoma. They played tennis in the backyard. The baseball field was two blocks away. Charles even had a ping pong table and a TV room in the upstairs. Wagoner (Okla.) ; Tennis ; Baseball ; Basketball ; Wagoner School Childhood ; Home 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1047 Mealtimes Regan Siler 17:27
 ; Well, my goodness! Well, so, can you tell me what meal times were like for your family? Did you eat together every night? Or how did that work? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 17:38
 ; Yes, my mama had a rule that supper was going to be on the table at six o'clock.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:51
 ; And you better be there.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 17:52
 ; If we did, yeah, if we did not make it, we ate it cold. Or if we didn't like it, we would fix it ourselves.
 ; Charles' mother had a rule that supper was on the table at six o'clock. If he did not make it in time, he had to eat it cold. Charles says his mother was a good cook. He remembers her meatloaf. Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Tahlequah (Okla.) Mealtimes 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1246 Automobiles Regan Siler 20:46
 ; Meatloaf. Okay, um, so you said that you always had to take care of cleaning the cars. What kind of cars did you have? Do you remember what kind of cars they were? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 20:59
 ; Well, yes, they were, my dad always had a new car to drive for safety reasons, and my favorite car was a Model A '31. We went to a barn west of Checotah [Oklahoma] and bought a Model A for $25.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 21:31
 ; Oh, my goodness!
 ; Charles says his father always had a new car to drive for safety reasons. Charles favorite car was a Model A '31. He bought one for $25 and fixed it up. He later sold it for $650 and went to college. He then bought a '40 Chevrolet. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Model A Ford ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Chevrolet automobile ; Porter (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) Automobiles 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 1495 Television Regan Siler 24:55
 ; Yeah, you got to do all kinds of things. Um, well, let me see here. Did you, so, you said you had a TV room, so I guess you got to watch some TV growing up. Do you remember any of your favorite programs?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 25:12
 ; Yeah, but I can't think the name of it. We always tried to get home and Channel Six in Tulsa. Channel Six in Tulsa, came on the air. We heard there's a TV station. Now, before that, as growing up, we got to go to Oklahoma State basketball games and sit behind the bench, and we got to go what they call then, an all college tournament in Oklahoma City. Would be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Kansas, all the top schools in this area.
 ; Charles watched Channel Six in Tulsa on television. He says his favorite show was a dancing show that was on after school at four o'clock. He later found out that his wife's sister had been on one those dance shows. Television ; Channel Six in Tulsa ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Oklahoma State University ; Texas ; Kansas ; Oklahoma ; Channel Four in Oklahoma City ; Sharon Allen Scott Television 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1639 Church Regan Siler 27:19
 ; Did you attend church growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 27:22
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 27:23
 ; You did? Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 27:24
 ; First Baptist Church.
 ; Charles attended the First Baptist Church when he was growing up. He says the teacher was a good-looking woman, so all of the boys went there. Charles' wife was a Methodist, but he converted her over to Baptist. Charles says most of the ball players went to the Baptist Church while he was coaching. First Baptist Church ; Methodist ; Sharon Allen Scott Church 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1746 Childhood Dreams and College Regan Siler 29:06
 ; Okay, um, okay, so as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 29:16
 ; Yes, I wanted to be a scientist, a chemist. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 29:21
 ; Wow!
 ; Charles wanted to be a scientist, specifically a chemist when he grew up. As he got older and went to college, he could not imagine sitting in an office all day. He had been attending Oklahoma State, but one day decided to leave. He said he was going home and attending Northeastern and playing tennis with his friends. He decided to become a teacher and a coach. Scientist ; Chemist ; Oklahoma State University ; Northeastern State University (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Northeastern A& ; M ; Miami (Okla.) ; Edna (Kan.) College ; Dreams 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1857 Wife Charles Nicholson 30:57
 ; I married a girl from Tulsa. We met at college in the fall at a dance. And 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:09
 ; So, okay, so, so since you're telling me about her, tell me, tell me what her name is.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 31:14
 ; Her name is Sharon Allen Scott.
 ; Charles married a girl from Tulsa. Her name was Sharon Allen Scott. They met at a fraternity dance while Charles was in college at Tahlequah. Sharon Allen Scott ; Northeastern State University ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Fraternity ; Edna (Kan.) Wife 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1963 Engagement Regan Siler 32:43
 ; Okay, so did you have an engagement? And did it, so did you get engaged? How long was your engagement? Or did you just decide to get married?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 32:55
 ; Let's see. It's one Saturday afternoon at her house, and we looked at each other and said, let's get married. She says, I want to marry you.
 ; Charles and Sharon looked at each other one Sunday and said, "Let's get married." Later Charles' parents said they didn't know if they could afford Charles his senior year because of all of the gas he was using. Charles and Edna went back and forth between Tulsa, Tahlequah and Checotah. Sharon Allen Scott ; Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Edna (Kan.) Engagement 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2136 Bristow Regan Siler 35:36
 ; Well, so, I know that you also taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before you landed in Bristow in 1967 so let's talk a little bit about Bristow. Um, what did you think about Bristow when you first came here? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 35:52
 ; We loved it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:53
 ; You loved it? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 35:54
 ; Yes.
 ; Charles taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before he landed in Bristow, Oklahoma in 1967. He loved Bristow. He thought it was nice to be somewhere where no one knew him or his family. He was hired to teach ninth grade physical science and be the head coach of the boys' basketball team and the assistant coach of football. Okay (Okla.) ; Inola (Okla.) ; Porter (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Oklahoma ; Porum (Okla.) ; Physical science ; Basketball ; Football Bristow 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2256 Girls' Basketball in Bristow Regan Siler 37:36
 ; Okay, um, and then I also understand, and I didn't even know this. I don't know how I didn't know this, that you were asked to start the girls basketball program in 1973, so I'd also like for you to talk a little bit about the evolution of girls basketball in Bristow.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 37:58
 ; Okay, we had six on six. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:04
 ; See, I played six on six. I'm an old timer.
 ; Charles was asked to start the girls' basketball program in Bristow in 1973. They played six on six. He remembers Dick Doak's daughter (Linda Trigalet) being a good outside shooter. Charles was the head coach for about three years. Basketball ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Gene Thompson ; Dick Doak ; Linda Trigalet ; Stroud (Okla.) ; Holdenville (Okla.) ; Wewoka (Okla.) ; Henryetta (Okla.) ; Porter (Okla.) Basketball 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2598 Wedding Regan Siler 43:18
 ; But you really sparked my interest in in weather, you know, in which we're going to talk about that too, because you have, you have quite a career here with Bristow, but let's talk a little bit more about your wife, Sharon. Um, you did you, you said you got married in the Baptist Church?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 43:41
 ; No, Methodist.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 43:42
 ; Methodist Church, I'm sorry. That's right. And do you remember what your wedding was like? Was it simple? Was it big?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 43:50
 ; It's very simple.
 ; Charles and Sharon were married in the Methodist Church. He says it was a very simple wedding. Charles' college friend was his best man ; his friend's dad was a doctor and owned a big Lincoln. Charles and Sharon arrived and left the ceremony in that car. Methodist Church ; Baptist Church ; Sharon Allen Scott ; Lincoln automobile Wedding 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 2671 Daughters Regan Siler 44:31
 ; Well, that's cool. Um, well, I also want to ask you about your daughters, um, which I know both of them, but so tell me both of your daughter's names.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 44:44
 ; Leisa Lynn Nicholson (Hallman) [9/1/1961]. Teresa Edair Nicholson (Ledgerwood) [4/2/1963].
 ; Charles has two daughters. The oldest is Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman, born September 1, 1961. The youngest is Teresa Edair Nicholson Ledgerwood. Teresa was born on April 2, 1963. Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman ; Teresa Edair Nicholson Ledgerwood Daughters 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2826 Grandchildren Regan Siler 47:06
 ; Um, now I also understand that you have four grandchildren and six great grandchildren. Is that correct? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 47:14
 ; Mm, hmm.
 ; Charles has four grandchildren. He also has six great grandchildren. Grandchildren ; Great-Grandchildren Grandchildren 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2834 Civil Defense Director Regan Siler 47:14
 ; Okay. Um, okay, so some things I want to talk to you about in talking with Lisa, there were, you know, several points that they brought up that they wanted me to ask you about. I would like for you to tell me about serving as the Creek County Civil Defense Director, and then, I guess, you were Bristow's Civil Defense Director for 24 years, retired in 1998. Can you tell me about your experience with all of that?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 47:43
 ; Oh, we had a highway patrol that lived two doors south of us, that we camped with and I fished with, and one day he said, I want you to go watch storms with me, the highway patrol. So, I went twice.
 ; Charles served as the Civil Defense Director in Bristow for 24 years. He retired from that position in 1998. He went to the National Weather Service in Tulsa so he could learn about storms. Charles was instrumental in getting training for storm watching around Bristow. Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman ; Creek County Civil Defense Director ; Bristow's Civil Defense Director ; Highway Patrol ; County Sheriff ; National Weather Service ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; First Baptist Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Washington Elementary School ; Storm Watchers Civil Defense Director 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3128 Firefighter and Neighborhood Watch Program Regan Siler 52:08
 ; Oh! Absolutely, absolutely. I, also, understand that you were, I didn't know you were a volunteer firefighter for the fire department here?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 52:17
 ; Yes, I was. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 52:18
 ; You worked for a while. Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 52:20
 ; We would fight fire all day and chase storms all night.
 ; Charles was a volunteer firefighter. He said he would fight fires all day and chase storms all night. He also started a neighborhood watch program. Charles was the Citizen of the Year in 1985 in Bristow. He was also a 2010 Wildflower Run honoree. Firefighter ; Fire departments ; Merit of Recognition and Appreciation ; Mayor ; Neighborhood watch programs ; Ben Franklin (store) ; Principal ; Athletic directors ; Citizen of the Year ; Christmas ; Wildflower Run ; Country Club Firefighter ; Neighborhood watch programs 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3324 Important Invention Regan Siler 55:24
 ; Okay, well, I have a couple of other questions for you, but I but these are just kind of fun questions. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention in your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 55:36
 ; Oh, man, that's a that's a hard question. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 55:39
 ; That is a hard question. I'm challenging you.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 55:42
 ; I think the the car was.
 ; Charles believes the car was the most important invention. Charles and his father rebuilt many cars together. Charles would get a lot of car parts from a junk yard that a dad of one of his friends owned. Automobile ; Harold Franklin Nicholson Invention 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3407 How the World is Different Regan Siler 56:47
 ; Right, right. Well, that's cool. How do you how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 56:57
 ; The world is too many people are self-centered. Too many people feel sorry for themselves. They don't, they're not fighters anymore. I mean, now, I'm talking fighters. I'm talking about getting out there and stealing the basketball at the end of the game and making a basket to win it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:20
 ; Right, right.
 ; Charles believes that too many people are self-centered nowadays. He says that people feel sorry for themselves and aren't fighters anymore. World World 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3457 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 57:37
 ; Yeah, yeah. I, I understand that. As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how would you think you would solve it?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 57:50
 ; We are too soft. Now, I was born in '37. We didn't put up with this. Our nation did not put up with this. Germany, they marched, my uncle's made the D-Day invasion. The D-Day invasion was, wow, a guy gets shot right there beside you, and you make it up the hill.
 ; Charles feels like our nation is too soft now. He says back in his day they didn't put up with this. He talks about his uncle being a part of the D-Day invasion. He remembers the president declaring war on Japan and hearing it on the radio. Germany ; D-Day Invasion ; President ; Japan ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Porum (Okla.) ; Fort Smith (Ark.) Nation ; Problem 0 [""] 3600 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:00:00
 ; But as a kid, that's yeah what you were thinking. Well, how have historic events say, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the 9/11 any natural disasters, world wars or even COVID, have any of those things affected you in your life, aside from what we just talked about?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:00:22
 ; Yes. I, Oklahoma City bombing, I was prepared to go down there like other people and help service. I got a phone call from the state office telling me to stay in Bristow, because we were on a main highway. See, okay, and they didn't know if they were going to be bombing, marching up, bombing.
 ; Charles remembers when the Oklahoma City bombing occurred. He was prepared to go help but the state office called and wanted him to stay put in Bristow with it being on a main highway. Oklahoma City bombing ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; COVID ; September 11 Terrorist Attacks, 2001 ; Texas Historic Events 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3705 Words of Wisdom Regan Siler 1:01:45
 ; Yeah, exactly. Well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us? Or, I, honestly, would like to get because I, I would like to hear what Coach Nicholson's words of wisdom are for you to share with future generations. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share to end this.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:01:45
 ; Yes, you're right.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:02:07
 ; Work hard.
 ; Charles finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says to work hard. Charles also says to spend time with your family. Wisdom ; College ; Kansas City (Mo.) ; California Wisdom 0 ["[\"\"]"] MP3 Charles Nicholson, a longtime Bristow resident and coach talks about his life and experiences. Born January 12, 1937, in Muskogee, Oklahoma, Charles discusses his parents' backgrounds and his own education and sports achievements, including being ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under tennis and winning the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Championship. He shares stories about his childhood, his marriage to Sharon Allen Scott, and his teaching and coaching career, which included starting the girls' basketball program in Bristow. Charles also reflects on his service as the Creek County Civil Defense Director and his dedication to community safety. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:27.140 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is May 9, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Charles Nicholson, which I'll probably call him Coach, at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:30.000 Charles Franklin Nicholson. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.179 Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview? 00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:34.020 Yes, you do. 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:38.729 Okay. Can you tell me when and where you were born? 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:48.659 I was born in January the 12th, 1937 at Baptist Hospital in Muskogee, Oklahoma. 00:00:48.659 --> 00:01:00.000 Okay, and can you tell me about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell me your mom and dad's full names? 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:07.500 Freddie Lahoma Nicholson [Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson 4/4/1911-11/1/2008] and Harold Franklin Nicholson [11/1/1909-5/13/1991]. 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:21.299 Okay, and I have Freddie, your mother's date of birth, as April 4, 1911. And I have your dad, Harold Nicholson's birth date, as November 1, 1909. I looked those up so we wouldn't 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:21.900 Oh, okay. 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:23.579 So we wouldn't have to remember that. 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:27.680 Gosh, that's good. 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.659 Can you tell me what type of work they did? 00:01:30.659 --> 00:02:02.549 My mother was English major in college, an elementary major, and she taught second grade most of her life. My dad was a math and science major, and he played basketball at Northeastern State College in Tahlequah, and he was also my basketball, my tennis, my baseball [coach], and he was also superintendent of schools. 00:02:02.549 --> 00:02:06.569 So, you didn't, you didn't fall too far from the tree, did you? 00:02:06.569 --> 00:02:09.300 No, I didn't. 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:11.939 Do you have any siblings? 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:12.719 No. 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.250 So, you were an only child? 00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:14.909 Yes. 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:16.409 Well, my goodness, okay. 00:02:16.409 --> 00:02:20.879 We had problems having children. 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:21.900 Oh, okay. 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:26.430 And I made it. 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:29.009 You made it. You were their miracle. 00:02:29.009 --> 00:02:30.090 Yes, I was. 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:35.340 Okay. Did you get to grow up around family? 00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:51.659 Yes, our family was mostly from Warner, Oklahoma, and we lived around Muskogee all of our lives. Bristow is the furthest place from Muskogee that I've ever lived. 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:52.469 Really? 00:02:52.469 --> 00:02:53.960 Yes. 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:59.990 And you've been here for how long since? I'm trying to think. 00:02:59.990 --> 00:03:03.830 I think it's 19. It was 67. 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:19.189 Oh, my goodness, okay. Um, so you came, or actually, first, let's talk about your childhood and your home life. I'm going to ask you, just kind of some fun questions to see if you 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:19.610 Okay. 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:28.189 See if you can remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played as a as a youngster? 00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:31.550 Yes, a pedal car. 00:03:31.550 --> 00:03:33.319 You had a pedal car? 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:40.789 And my dad was resourceful. He would make bicycles. 00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:41.599 Oh, my goodness. 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:54.949 So, I had all the, I never had a new bicycle, but I had a repainted fenders pedal, an old bicycle. 00:03:54.949 --> 00:03:59.000 Well, that sounds awesome. So you probably spent a lot of time outside. I'm guessing? 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:59.840 Yes, we did. 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:06.620 Yes. Did you have any chores that you were expected to do? 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:08.270 Wash the cars. 00:04:08.270 --> 00:04:09.110 Really? 00:04:09.110 --> 00:04:11.389 Keep the cars clean. 00:04:11.389 --> 00:04:13.939 That's interesting. 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:19.459 I also worked in a filling station with that experience. 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:24.050 Okay, and so how old were you when you worked at the filling station? Were you a youngster? 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:27.709 I was a senior in high school. 00:04:27.709 --> 00:04:36.050 Okay, and did you have any friends that came over and played at your house? Did you live in town? Did you live in the country? 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:51.740 No, I, we lived in town, but I had, I had friends, but I spent most of my time on the road playing baseball and tennis and basketball. 00:04:51.740 --> 00:05:06.620 So, and I'm going to jump ahead a little bit, but I found it funny because your daughter was telling me about you, your adventures in getting to some of your tennis matches. 00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:07.430 Yeah. 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.000 It's not like it is today. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:09.529 So, tell me, tell me a little bit about trying to get to a tennis match or what they would do. 00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:18.779 Right. 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:50.750 Dad took me over where I went, and when I was 16, he handed me the car keys and said, your tennis match this weekend is in Oklahoma City. And, I had been in Oklahoma City, but I had never driven in Oklahoma City, so I took off and went and got to my tennis match. 00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:57.290 And that's that's without Google Maps or cell phones or with anything. You just figured it out, huh? 00:05:57.290 --> 00:06:02.389 It was the Oklahoma City University, and that's where I went for the tennis match. 00:06:02.389 --> 00:06:03.329 Oh, my goodness. 00:06:03.329 --> 00:06:20.399 And I was called Uncle Vic by the smaller tennis players in Muskogee, because Vic Seixas was one of the big tennis players. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.449 Oh, okay. 00:06:21.449 --> 00:06:22.860 So, they called me Uncle Vic. 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:24.240 So, that was a compliment? 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:24.839 Yes. 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:25.839 Okay. 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:43.990 I was driving them to Ada. And you know how when they repair a road, there's cones out there. I look in the rear view mirror, one of them's got the tennis rackets out the window, knocking those cones over. It could have torn their arm off! 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:52.720 Oh, my goodness! It's a wonder that any of us survived our childhood, you know? 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:53.439 Yeah. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:07:08.860 Especially whenever you're trying to navigate Oklahoma City as a 16 year old. So did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:24.189 Dad had a shop also, and we had a scroll saw they call nowadays, and we use that to make things. And I learned to make things, and I do that today for Christmas. 00:07:24.189 --> 00:07:25.720 So, like, wood things? 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:27.040 Yes, sawing wood. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.000 Cool. 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:31.269 So, those hobbies carried over into your adulthood. 00:07:31.269 --> 00:07:34.810 With a 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:39.610 Yes, that is how I take, pass my time today. 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:49.040 Really? Well, that's neat. Did you collect anything as a child? You remember collecting anything? 00:07:49.040 --> 00:08:06.889 No, I have, not bragging, but I have my tennis medals and my tennis trophies that I have in the attic, and then I have, you know other things, pictures. 00:08:06.889 --> 00:08:15.000 Okay, okay, so can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school? 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:28.439 I first attended school at, well, I don't remember. 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:33.720 That's okay. Did you were you said you lived mainly in Muskogee? 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:41.039 Yeah. I lived in, yeah. I guess, oh, Wagoner. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.789 Wagoner? 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:47.700 My mom was second, huh, my mom was second grade teacher. 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:50.129 Did she teach you also? 00:08:50.129 --> 00:08:51.600 Yes, in the second grade. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:56.429 Okay, okay. Did you enjoy school? 00:08:56.429 --> 00:08:58.539 Yes, I enjoyed school quite a bit. 00:08:58.539 --> 00:09:10.809 Okay, now I'm asking if you were a member of any clubs or organizations. Obviously, you played a lot of sports, but were you involved in any other organization? 00:09:10.809 --> 00:09:12.190 4H club. 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:16.600 4h, okay. Go ahead. 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:37.059 I raised three hogs in the backyard. And in a square made out of wood and fence. And I moved that along so when they wore the grass out, they would have more grass. 00:09:37.059 --> 00:09:38.049 Right! 00:09:38.049 --> 00:09:48.850 I took them to the fair that in the fall, and my three hogs got away from me and ran over the judge, knocked him down. 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:49.600 Oh, no! 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.789 So, I didn't win a prize. 00:09:54.789 --> 00:10:17.769 Um, okay, so we're going to circle back to tennis. So, it's my understanding that you were ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under, and you were ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings, and then you were the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Does that sound right? 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:20.740 Yes for there were two classes, A and B. 00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:21.940 Okay. 00:10:21.940 --> 00:10:34.809 And, of course B, A was Tulsa and Muskogee and Ada, and there was a B class. That's all there was. 00:10:34.809 --> 00:10:40.149 So, do you feel that you got your love of sports from your dad? 00:10:40.149 --> 00:10:41.440 That was my job. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:42.509 That was your job. 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:44.490 Besides keeping the cars. 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:44.879 Okay. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:55.110 Keeping the cars clean. But my daddy told me when I was like in elementary, sports, is your job. 00:10:55.110 --> 00:10:55.740 Okay. 00:10:55.740 --> 00:11:08.789 Now I was taught how to do a lot of things around the house. I was taught how to paint the house and so on and so forth. 00:11:08.789 --> 00:11:12.480 But, he felt like sports was your your job. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:12.929 That's right. 00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:20.159 Okay, okay, so, did that put pressure on you, or did you, did you enjoy it? 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.179 I enjoyed it. 00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:25.340 You enjoyed it. Okay. Do you feel like he was hard on you? 00:11:25.340 --> 00:12:11.529 My dad was hard on me. I was, we were playing the finals of the basketball tournament at Conner State College when I was a freshman. We were taught to run very hard man-to-man defense. A guy got away and came down the middle, and I swung and didn't touch the guy, but the guy, the referee called a foul. I guess I said some foul language. I don't know. That was not me. 00:12:11.529 --> 00:12:13.019 Right. 00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:40.870 You're out of the game 21! So, as I headed for the bench, I saw my dad pull off his belt. My dad grabbed me by the left arm, gave me a spanking by his belt. The referee stopped the game and says, you're back in the game 21. 00:12:40.870 --> 00:12:42.100 Are you serious? 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:48.909 So, after the game, my dad said I hated to do that, but I needed you in the game. 00:12:48.909 --> 00:12:49.960 Well, my goodness! 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.009 But that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. 00:12:54.009 --> 00:13:05.950 Okay. Okay, so back on school, did you enjoy reading? 00:13:05.950 --> 00:13:06.700 Not really. 00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:17.990 I I'm kind of with you on that. Um, do you remember if you, like, ate in the cafeteria, or did you take your lunch when you were a youngster? 00:13:17.990 --> 00:14:00.950 Okay, we lived in Wagner. My dad, eight miles south, was superintendent and coach. So, after I was probably in about the fourth grade, I went to, I started riding to school with him and going to Okay Public Schools, and so we spent a lot of time in the car, driving back and forth. So, that was my most that was my high school, I mean, my elementary and my high school experience. 00:14:00.950 --> 00:14:10.009 Okay, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in. 00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:11.299 Okay. 00:14:11.299 --> 00:14:13.940 Can you, you said you lived in town? 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:15.500 Yes, we lived in Wagner. 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:18.980 Can you describe your house? 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:35.490 It was a two story house, divided. In other words, they took a mansion, sawed it half in two, and moved them apart. 00:14:35.490 --> 00:14:36.120 Are you serious? 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:54.210 And they, yes, they look alike. There's a picture on the wall. I wish you could see it of the two houses. The driveway was in between, and I had a concrete slab with the goal on the garage. 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:56.000 You probably spent a lot of time on that, didn't you? 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.929 Yes, we also had a tennis court in our backyard. 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:01.309 Did you really? 00:15:01.309 --> 00:15:16.250 Yes, it was dirt, and we played tennis, practiced tennis in the backyard, and two blocks south was the baseball field. 00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.889 And this was in the town of Wagoner? 00:15:18.889 --> 00:15:19.429 Yes. 00:15:19.429 --> 00:15:22.460 Okay, and then you were close to the baseball field, too. 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:24.919 Yes, the baseball field was right down there. 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:38.240 Okay, so did you, do you remember, like, the inside of your house? Like your, I know you spent most of your time outside, but like, what was your, what was the inside of your house like? 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:50.000 Inside of the house was a kitchen, a washroom and a stairwell. Then on the east side of the house was the dining room and the living room. 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.059 So you had a really nice house, didn't you? 00:15:53.059 --> 00:16:08.779 Yes, upstairs was a ping pong table in the hall and then a TV room, my bedroom and my parent's bedroom and a bath. So, there's an upstairs bath and a downstairs bath. 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:10.889 Wow! 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:19.620 And, like I say, we were very, oops, I forgot the word. 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:20.399 That's okay! 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:21.330 Resourceful. 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:22.409 Okay. 00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:34.649 And he was able to, like I say, put a tennis court back there, and basketball court, and then we had a garage where we had all of our tools. 00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:39.539 So, did your friends not come over and play tennis or basketball with you? 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:45.000 No, all my friends were going to Wagoner School, of course. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.029 Oh, okay. 00:16:48.029 --> 00:17:06.660 And they, we beat them in the finals. We beat them in the finals of the Regional in 1955 on our way to state basketball tournament. 00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:08.009 Okay. 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:16.589 They were not very happy. As I was dribbling down the court, I would see paper clips fly by me. 00:17:16.589 --> 00:17:18.319 Really?! 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.569 Yes, they were. 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:21.230 Oh, my goodness. 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:27.079 They were trying to hit me with paper clips from rubber bands. 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:38.869 Well, my goodness! Well, so, can you tell me what meal times were like for your family? Did you eat together every night? Or how did that work? 00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:51.200 Yes, my mama had a rule that supper was going to be on the table at six o'clock. 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:52.000 And you better be there. 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:02.710 If we did, yeah, if we did not make it, we ate it cold. Or if we didn't like it, we would fix it ourselves. 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.180 I like that rule. 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:06.880 It was a good rule. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:12.049 So, did you have to do any cleaning up or any of that, or did your mom handle all that? 00:18:12.049 --> 00:19:20.809 I, my mother came to me one day and said, if I put, if you will put me through college, I will put you through college. And I said, okay, what do I do? She said, do the laundry and clean the house. I says, okay, teach me. So, she taught me how to do the laundry and to clean the house. Now, when we clean the house, we don't clean the house. We dust every object on every shelf and every shelf as we take it off. And, so, that was a good teaching thing for me. We still do that today, and of course, also clean the cars. 00:19:20.809 --> 00:19:29.210 Yes, still clean the cars. Okay, well, that's interesting. I think that's a good that, that was a really good life lesson for you, wasn't it? 00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:31.400 I think, yes, it was, yeah. 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:37.279 And plus, I just think that's, I'm I'm kind of like that at my house, too, so. 00:19:37.279 --> 00:20:00.289 Mama just dies laughing, when I was I graduated in Tahlequah, and she said, how do you iron your clothes? I said, I spread them out and put them between the mattress and box springs and lay on top of them. That's the way I iron my clothes. 00:20:00.289 --> 00:20:02.900 Well, hey, you said you guys were resourceful. 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:05.190 Yes, yes. 00:20:05.190 --> 00:20:34.200 Did you, do you happen to remember having a favorite meal that she would fix for you? Can't think of anything in particular? Or any, maybe dessert or something that she would fix that you really enjoyed? 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:35.609 No, I really can't. 00:20:35.609 --> 00:20:37.410 Okay. Was she a pretty good cook? 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:38.789 Yes, my mother was a good cook. 00:20:38.789 --> 00:20:42.480 So, you probably liked everything, then, if you were a growing boy. 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.109 Right. Meatloaf comes to my mind. 00:20:46.109 --> 00:20:59.109 Meatloaf. Okay, um, so you said that you always had to take care of cleaning the cars. What kind of cars did you have? Do you remember what kind of cars they were? 00:20:59.109 --> 00:21:31.059 Well, yes, they were, my dad always had a new car to drive for safety reasons, and my favorite car was a Model A '31. We went to a barn west of Checotah [Oklahoma] and bought a Model A for $25. 00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:33.170 Oh, my goodness! 00:21:33.170 --> 00:22:27.559 My dad, we brought it home, and my dad was a, could paint, you know, all this stuff, and we fixed it up. It was beautiful, and I drove it all over, and when I got ready to go to college, Dad says, you got to sell your Model A, which broke my heart. So, I was parked on the street in Checotah, and this guy saw me get out of it, and stopped, from Oklahoma City and said, I noticed your Model A's for sale. And I said, yes. How much? I said, $650. He got out his billfold and counted his money and says, I think I got that much. So, anyway, I sold my Model A and went to college. 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:34.490 So, did he, did he want you to sell it because you needed the money or because you needed a better car? 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:35.539 Probably a better car. 00:22:35.539 --> 00:22:36.470 A better car? 00:22:36.470 --> 00:22:36.869 Yes. 00:22:36.869 --> 00:22:38.160 But you were partial to it? 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:38.579 Yes. 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:39.480 Yeah, oka. 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.029 My better car was a '40 Chevrolet. 00:22:42.029 --> 00:22:43.710 A '40 Chevrolet, okay. 00:22:43.710 --> 00:22:45.240 Do we have time for that story? 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:46.920 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:46.920 --> 00:23:23.279 '40 Chevrolet had a bad engine. So, we found, dad found the '53 Chevrolet power glide upside down. It was at a junkyard and bought it and brought it home and put it in that '40 Chevrolet. Which the '40 Chevrolet, he'll never know this, was the fastest car on the highway. We would race it and win. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:24.000 That's awesome. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:45.690 So, when I moved to Porter [Oklahoma] as the coach, the super the president of the school board, raced cars. So, Porter was a small town, so I got in with them in the summer racing cars. 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:47.589 Oh, my goodness. 00:23:47.589 --> 00:24:45.519 So, one of my physics students, he decided he was going to build a race car. So, they were standing around. And when I grew up in Porter, I was also with these mechanic's sons. So, they said, what are we going to do? I said, well, the fastest car I had was a '40 Chevrolet, '53 power glide engine with the stick shift. They kind of scratched their chins and they said, I think that'll work. So, that car after school on Fridays, I would hook that car and trailer up and take it to Muskogee [Oklahoma] for my student to race, and we had one of the fastest cars out there. 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.339 Well, how fun is that? I did not know that about you. 00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:55.119 Oh, yes, I was just fortunate all my life to have do the things I had fun doing. 00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:12.279 Yeah, you got to do all kinds of things. Um, well, let me see here. Did you, so, you said you had a TV room, so I guess you got to watch some TV growing up. Do you remember any of your favorite programs? 00:25:12.279 --> 00:26:05.430 Yeah, but I can't think the name of it. We always tried to get home and Channel Six in Tulsa. Channel Six in Tulsa, came on the air. We heard there's a TV station. Now, before that, as growing up, we got to go to Oklahoma State basketball games and sit behind the bench, and we got to go what they call then, an all college tournament in Oklahoma City. Would be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Kansas, all the top schools in this area. 00:26:05.430 --> 00:26:10.950 Oh, I was just wondering you, you said you sat behind the I had asked about the TV programs. 00:26:10.950 --> 00:26:51.930 Yeah, okay, Channel Six came on the air. I sit on the front porch holding up an antenna. And dad had bought a TV, and we had seen Channel Four in Oklahoma City, which at then, at that all-college tournament, there was TVs out in the lobby where you could see them. So, we found out we could watch Channel Six, so dad had this big two story antenna on top of the house. We could get Channel Four in Oklahoma City, and then when Tulsa came on the air, we could get them. 00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:53.130 You could get them. 00:26:53.130 --> 00:26:53.609 Yes. 00:26:53.609 --> 00:26:54.089 Well, that's awesome. 00:26:54.089 --> 00:27:19.579 And there was a dancing program after school at four o'clock on Channel Six, where, you know, students from all schools came and danced, and that was my favorite program. Later on, I found out my wife's sister was on one of those dance shows. 00:27:19.579 --> 00:27:22.519 Did you attend church growing up? 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.119 Yes. 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.950 You did? Okay. 00:27:24.950 --> 00:27:26.000 First Baptist Church. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:37.970 Do you remember what your favorite thing about church was, or what services were like? Or can you tell me anything about church? 00:27:37.970 --> 00:28:01.190 The, sorry you asked, the teacher in Baptist Church was a very good looking woman, so all of us boys went to 00:28:01.190 --> 00:28:02.000 You liked going to her class? 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.279 No, no, it's your interview. Yeah, I asked you. 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:35.480 Yes! We like going to her class, Sunday school class. We had a softball team that was very, very good. She was a good softball coach. So, that attracted us to the Baptist Church. We were, I was baptized in the Baptist Church, and I married my wife. She was, oh, we shouldn't be talking about religion, should we. 00:28:35.480 --> 00:29:02.000 My wife was a Methodist. My parents were Methodists. So, I kept, even all through life, going to the Baptist Church. So, when I married my wife, I converted her over and because most of the ball players seemed like, when I was coaching, would go to the Baptist Church. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.140 Interesting, and, so, you enjoyed attending the Baptist Church, then? 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.710 Yes. 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:16.339 Okay, um, okay, so as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:21.650 Yes, I wanted to be a scientist, a chemist. 00:29:21.650 --> 00:29:22.779 Wow! 00:29:22.779 --> 00:30:12.190 But as I got older and went to college, I could not feature myself being inside all day in an office, in a room, working. So, I went home. One day I was at Oklahoma State. I went home one day and I said, I'm going to Northeastern at Tahlequah [Oklahoma], play tennis with my friends that I grew up with that are over there playing. I'm going to make a teacher and a coach. And my parents said, that sounds good. So, I finished that fall in Oklahoma State, and I went to Tahlequah. 00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:36.849 And that's funny that you say that, that was the next thing I was going to talk to you about, because Lisa had told me that you were awarded basketball and tennis scholarships to Northeastern A & M in Miami [Oklahoma]. You played one year, attended OSU one year, and then in 1957 that you transferred to NSU to play tennis. 00:30:36.849 --> 00:30:37.299 Yes. 00:30:37.299 --> 00:30:46.269 And that you graduated NSU in 1960 with a Bachelor of Science in Education with a minor in science and math. Does that all sound right? 00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:46.750 Yes. 00:30:46.750 --> 00:30:55.599 Okay. And then after graduation, I understand that you headed to Edna, Kansas for your first teaching assignment? 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:56.079 Yes. 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.910 Okay. You want to tell me about that? 00:30:57.910 --> 00:31:09.730 I married a girl from Tulsa. We met at college in the fall at a dance. And 00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:14.559 So, okay, so, so since you're telling me about her, tell me, tell me what her name is. 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.750 Her name is Sharon Allen Scott. 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.119 Okay, and so you met her at NSU? 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:19.630 Yes. 00:31:19.630 --> 00:31:20.680 Okay, all right. 00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:21.000 At a dance. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:32:23.970 We at a dance. Yes, she came to Tahlequah at a fraternity dance. Her boyfriend had some problems, and she and I danced together. And I said, next time you come to Tahlequah, I'll have you a date with a really nice guy.I mean, I wouldn't say it would be me at the time, but as life turned out, she and I dated, and you gotta remember, she was a senior in high school. I was a senior in college. Her senior class was 1000 some odd, and my high school was 200. But I married a girl from Tulsa, and I moved her in a car, in a trailer, to Edna, Kansas, which was 250 people. She made a lot of friends. I'm serious, she made a lot of friends. 00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.160 Well, she's a, she's a sweet lady. 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:30.750 She, oh gosh, yes, how lucky could you be? 00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:35.430 Well, do you remember what your first impression of her was when you, the first time you saw her? 00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:43.589 Uh, she was very mild and very sweet person. 00:32:43.589 --> 00:32:55.890 Okay, so did you have an engagement? And did it, so did you get engaged? How long was your engagement? Or did you just decide to get married? 00:32:55.890 --> 00:33:11.519 Let's see. It's one Saturday afternoon at her house, and we looked at each other and said, let's get married. She says, I want to marry you. 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.750 Just like that, huh? 00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:49.109 Yes. And, so, later on my parents said we didn't know if we could afford you your senior year, because you burned, you and Sharon burned so much gas driving back and forth from Tulsa to Tahlequah to Checotah to Tahlequah. And I didn't, I said, why didn't you tell me? I said, we could've, you know, put it every other weekend. 00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:49.890 Right. 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:59.019 But I would drive up stay with her parents one weekend, and then pick her up, and we would go to my parents one weekend. 00:33:59.019 --> 00:34:14.800 Well, so, one of my other questions I wanted to ask you was, what was your first years of marriage like, which takes us back to you taking her to Edna. So, tell me a little bit about Edna. You said it was a little bitty town. She made a lot of friends. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:24.760 Yes, we had a Falcon back then, red. 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:25.989 Okay. 00:34:25.989 --> 00:35:36.190 I was so proud of my car. While we were dating, I drove it to Tulsa. She said, why did you get red? I said, because that was the color that the car was, okay. Not, oh, you got a new car! Wow, why did you get red? So, I have a picture of us standing by the red Falcon. But my memory was also, she would drive to Tulsa and visit her parents. One weekend, she got to her mom and dad's and her dad said, how much money you got? She said, $2. He said, you mean you drove all the way down here with $2 in your pocket. Well, gas was quarter a gallon, and the Falcon got 25 miles per gallon. That's it. 00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:52.690 Well, so, I know that you also taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before you landed in Bristow in 1967 so let's talk a little bit about Bristow. Um, what did you think about Bristow when you first came here? 00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:53.619 We loved it. 00:35:53.619 --> 00:35:54.250 You loved it? 00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:55.300 Yes. 00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:57.309 Was she happy to be in a different town? 00:35:57.309 --> 00:35:58.840 Yes. 00:35:58.840 --> 00:35:59.000 Okay. 00:35:59.000 --> 00:35:59.199 An escape? 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:05.900 Now, can I tell you that Bristow was an escape. 00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:34.809 For us. I had lived in northeastern Oklahoma all our life. Everyone knew me from the time I was a little guy shooting free throws before a game at Porum, Oklahoma when I was six years old, and every time I would make one, the whole crowd would cheer. But it was an escape. 00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:39.070 So, you felt like it was nice to come and be somewhere where no one knew you? 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:39.429 Yes. 00:36:39.429 --> 00:36:40.630 Okay. 00:36:40.630 --> 00:36:48.099 Because little Charlie Nicholson was not going to whip my son in high school. I was an adult. 00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:49.300 Right, right. 00:36:49.300 --> 00:37:22.869 But we, we came here, and of course, basketball was not a big game, and I would go up down the hall, and I would tell the students, I said, hey, our basketball team's playing tonight. Why don't you come and see us? And luckily, I had some boys that were that could play, and and we started filling the gym, and it was just great. 00:37:22.869 --> 00:37:29.380 So, you, so, whenever you came here, you were hired to teach ninth grade physical science? 00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:29.860 Yes. 00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:35.949 To be the head coach of the boys basketball team and the assistant coach of the football team, correct? 00:37:35.949 --> 00:37:36.000 Yes. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:58.219 Okay, um, and then I also understand, and I didn't even know this. I don't know how I didn't know this, that you were asked to start the girls basketball program in 1973, so I'd also like for you to talk a little bit about the evolution of girls basketball in Bristow. 00:37:58.219 --> 00:38:04.699 Okay, we had six on six. 00:38:04.699 --> 00:38:07.519 See, I played six on six. I'm an old timer. 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:27.769 Yeah, we had six on six. We had three guards and three forwards, and we started girls basketball in physical education. Gene Thompson kind of practiced the girls in physical education class. 00:38:27.769 --> 00:38:29.150 Okay. 00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:38.000 I had Dick Doak's daughter was from Stroud. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.190 Now, is this Linda? Are we talking about Linda Trigalet? 00:38:40.190 --> 00:38:41.119 Linda Trigalet. 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:42.869 Okay, she's another one of my favorites. 00:38:42.869 --> 00:38:57.900 Yes, yes. She had played at Stroud, so she was a good outside shooter. I had some girls that could play guards and and we did well the first year of basketball. 00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:58.469 That's awesome! 00:38:58.469 --> 00:39:06.409 And we had a good time at it, too. 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:14.000 Do you feel like it took a while for the girls basketball to catch on, or did it just really take off and 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:26.809 Yes it, yes it, we kind of caught on. I had one or two girls that were fast and played defense. 00:39:26.809 --> 00:39:28.519 And probably fun to watch? 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:30.380 Yeah, yes. 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:38.900 So, now, back then, was there very many other teams in your district, or was it still pretty small at that time? 00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:57.949 Yeah, most, if I remember, but most of us had the same teams. Holdenville, Wewoka, Bristow, Henryetta, some, some other teams had, they all had girls. 00:39:57.949 --> 00:40:11.659 So, this might not be a fair question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Do you have, do you, do you have a favorite sport that you have coached, between tennis, football, basketball, boys and girls basketball? Do you have a favorite? 00:40:11.659 --> 00:40:13.250 Yes, I love basketball. 00:40:13.250 --> 00:40:15.199 Basketball, yeah. 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:33.559 We, drills. We did not drill running up down the court or running up down the stadium. We drilled dribbling passing, three on two. 00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:35.000 All the fundamentals. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:41:09.860 Yeah, fundamentals. My dad said that you can't play ball if you can't dribble left hand, right hand and shoot left hand, right hand. And, every time I run on to an elementary coach, they would, I would say, learn to dribble, and they would scream at me left handed and right handed, because I've had players that thought they became left handed. 00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:14.539 Because they were so fluid and being able to do either right or left. 00:41:14.539 --> 00:41:24.980 I had a kid at Porter. They would say, other coaches would say, boy, that left hander is good! 00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:26.030 And they're right handed? 00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:37.900 Yeah, and, but I noticed that when my kids would dribble left handed down the court, nobody would take the ball away from because they would go, you know, they'd just look at them. 00:41:37.900 --> 00:41:55.449 Right, right. That's funny. Um, seemed like there was something else I was going to ask you about that. So, how long were you the girls basketball coach? So, you were the head coach? Because I don't have that information. 00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:57.340 I was head coach for about three years. 00:41:57.340 --> 00:42:02.559 Were you really? And you were you still trying to coach the boys and football, too, and tennis? 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:05.019 No, I just coached girls basketball. 00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:05.710 Just the girls? 00:42:05.710 --> 00:42:05.889 Yeah. 00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:12.539 Okay. And then, and then, didn't you, you coached tennis as well at some point, right? 00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:28.679 Yes, Title IX said we must have equal women's sports. So, that's why that there is tennis and softball and track. 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:38.579 Equal opportunity, basically. Well, you know, I'm really glad you didn't become a scientist, because I think your calling was to be a coach and a teacher. 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.960 It was. I think it was, too. 00:42:40.960 --> 00:43:17.710 And I have to say, I'm gonna go back to your teaching part a little bit. I had you for ninth grade science, and I remember because, you know, of course, this was before, you know, cell phones and everything was so readily available. We were, of course, talking about weather, and you had a VHS tape of some of an active tornado doing damage, and you let me take it because we watched, like, a little bit of it in class, and you let me take that tape home where I could watch it at home. And I thought that was the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. Scary, but cool, you know. 00:43:17.710 --> 00:43:18.639 Yeah. 00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:41.650 But you really sparked my interest in in weather, you know, in which we're going to talk about that too, because you have, you have quite a career here with Bristow, but let's talk a little bit more about your wife, Sharon. Um, you did you, you said you got married in the Baptist Church? 00:43:41.650 --> 00:43:42.849 No, Methodist. 00:43:42.849 --> 00:43:50.079 Methodist Church, I'm sorry. That's right. And do you remember what your wedding was like? Was it simple? Was it big? 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:51.039 It's very simple. 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:52.360 Very simple. Okay. 00:43:52.360 --> 00:44:11.000 My college friend was a best man. His dad was a doctor that had a big Lincoln. So, we got the bride in a big Lincoln. 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:12.000 In a big Lincoln. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:31.889 After the, before the ceremony, we arrived right in the big Lincoln. Had our ceremony, and we got in the big Lincoln and went to eat. The big Lincoln took us to our motel, so we had a big Lincoln waiting. 00:44:31.889 --> 00:44:44.639 Well, that's cool. Um, well, I also want to ask you about your daughters, um, which I know both of them, but so tell me both of your daughter's names. 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.750 Leisa Lynn Nicholson (Hallman) [9/1/1961]. Teresa Edair Nicholson (Ledgerwood) [4/2/1963]. 00:44:48.750 --> 00:44:50.309 Okay, so 00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:53.340 Lisa is a Hallman. 00:44:53.340 --> 00:44:54.840 And Teresa is a Ledgerwood. 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:55.980 Teresa is a Ledgerwood. 00:44:55.980 --> 00:45:08.099 And I have Lisa's birthday as September 1, 1961. And I have Teresa's birthday, April 2 of 1963 just because I want to have that on the recording. 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:17.000 We were not going to have babies for two or three years, but after a while, my wife said, it's time to have babies. 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:29.210 It's time to have babies. Well, can you think back to what maybe some of the challenges were of being a dad in the early years. Did you have any challenges or? 00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:31.219 Funny you should ask. 00:45:31.219 --> 00:45:33.289 Let me guess, you have a story? 00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:54.500 Yes. Theresa did not like to go to bed early. She did not like to sleep, so she and I sit in the living room watching television while she was on my shoulder. 00:45:54.500 --> 00:45:55.670 Right. 00:45:55.670 --> 00:46:02.090 And about the time I would thought she was asleep, she would raise her head up and start looking. 00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:05.449 And you're like, darn, we have to start this process all over again. 00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:10.670 And Sharon and Lisa were sleeping while she and I was up. 00:46:10.670 --> 00:46:13.340 So, she was your one that didn't sleep much then? 00:46:13.340 --> 00:46:15.829 Yes, and she went through life like that. 00:46:15.829 --> 00:46:21.000 Oh, my goodness. Now, did they, did you coach them in basketball? Did they play basketball for you? 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:21.110 So, how was that? Was that a good experience, a fun experience? 00:46:21.110 --> 00:46:25.440 Yes, uh huh. 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:43.530 Yes, it was. Teresa would always and my daddy, I never thought about this. My daddy always said, you make the first shot of the game. 00:46:43.530 --> 00:46:44.730 That's what he would tell you? 00:46:44.730 --> 00:46:45.179 Yes. 00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:46.110 Okay. 00:46:46.110 --> 00:47:01.590 Teresa was the same way. She'd make the first shot of the game. Lisa was a good passer.The girls. the girls liked to play with her, because she'd get the ball to them. 00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:05.219 And it takes, yeah, it takes all parts to make it work. 00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:06.690 That's right. 00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:14.159 Um, now I also understand that you have four grandchildren and six great grandchildren. Is that correct? 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:14.550 Mm, hmm. 00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:43.000 Okay. Um, okay, so some things I want to talk to you about in talking with Lisa, there were, you know, several points that they brought up that they wanted me to ask you about. I would like for you to tell me about serving as the Creek County Civil Defense Director, and then, I guess, you were Bristow's Civil Defense Director for 24 years, retired in 1998. Can you tell me about your experience with all of that? 00:47:43.000 --> 00:48:08.320 Oh, we had a highway patrol that lived two doors south of us, that we camped with and I fished with, and one day he said, I want you to go watch storms with me, the highway patrol. So, I went twice. 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:12.789 And this was when you were, like, a teacher and a coach and all that. 00:48:12.789 --> 00:48:12.849 Yeah. 00:48:12.849 --> 00:48:16.480 It was that was that time of life. Okay. 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:31.000 And, so, we went twice. The next thing is, they said, I want you to go, there was a building out here on the hill by the swimming pool that was the county. 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.329 Yes, I've seen pictures of it. 00:48:33.329 --> 00:49:07.230 And up on top of it was a little house, he said, and this is where they watch storms from, the key the base we'll call it, the base station. Want you go up there and see what they're doing. So, I went up there twice or three times, and pretty soon they came to the house, said we want you to be, then, Civil Defense. 00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:08.880 Right, right. 00:49:08.880 --> 00:50:08.400 I said, man, I don't know that I've got time for this. Well, we've got to have you, because at the time, the guy that was the director was going to run for county sheriff, so they had to have someone. So, I accepted was sworn in in this building across the street. The main thing was, is storm watching. I don't care what else happens. So I went to the National Weather Service in Tulsa, walked in the door, introduced myself. I said, I got to know about storms. I said they've thrown they've thrown me in Civil Defense Director at Bristow. And I said their main thing is watching storms. And a guy looked around and said, I bet there's a lot of people out there that don't know the, now, I knew about storms, but I didn't know the particulars. 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.699 Right. 00:50:10.699 --> 00:50:34.369 So, this, I was the my experience was the beginning of the Weather Service traveling around, giving schools. And the first one was the First Baptist Church in Bristow. We filled that place. 00:50:34.369 --> 00:50:40.369 So, you're basically kind of instrumental in getting training for storm spotting. 00:50:40.369 --> 00:50:40.969 That's right. 00:50:40.969 --> 00:50:44.900 That's amazing. And now it's huge. It's a big deal. 00:50:44.900 --> 00:50:54.949 Yes, it is. And you can take it on television, I mean, I'm sorry, on the internet now, but still. 00:50:54.949 --> 00:50:57.710 So, the first class was here at the First Baptist Church? 00:50:57.710 --> 00:50:58.429 Yes. 00:50:58.429 --> 00:50:59.449 That's amazing. 00:50:59.449 --> 00:51:00.469 And it was full. 00:51:00.469 --> 00:51:01.369 It was full. 00:51:01.369 --> 00:51:15.000 We later moved up here to the elementary. Washington had, you know, had a place up there, and we it got smaller because they moved around to different cities. 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:26.460 Well, I remember being bummed out when you retired, because I was like, who's going to tell us when the the sirens need to be blown. We, a lot of this counted on you. 00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:29.940 Yes, it went downhill from there. I'm sorry. 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.000 Yes, I would agree. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:56.409 We were in the process of rebuilding, and the guy died. Oh, he, he was one of my storm watchers, took over for me, and they didn't have enough. He couldn't find anybody with that could afford for nothing to go out and take their lives in their own hands. 00:51:56.409 --> 00:52:03.099 Right, in your own vehicle, in your, yeah, in your own time, right, right. Yeah, I understand. 00:52:03.099 --> 00:52:08.800 I mean, you can get out there and get hung up and get a get your pickup just beat up. 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:17.860 Oh! Absolutely, absolutely. I, also, understand that you were, I didn't know you were a volunteer firefighter for the fire department here? 00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:18.219 Yes, I was. 00:52:18.219 --> 00:52:20.079 You worked for a while. Okay. 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:25.469 We would fight fire all day and chase storms all night. 00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:43.139 My husband actually started here as a volunteer fireman, and then was a full time here, and then, you know, ended up he's at Tulsa now. I, also, understand that you were awarded a Merit of Recognition and Appreciation from the mayor for your 24 years of service. 00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:43.440 Yes. 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.260 Is that correct? And you retired in 1998? 00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:46.949 Mm-hmm. 00:52:46.949 --> 00:52:55.440 Okay, and then did you also, you got a neighborhood watch program started? 00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:03.179 Yes, the same guys that were storm spotters and firemen. 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:09.000 I felt like you were way ahead of your time on on getting all this stuff going. 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:17.000 We had a a fire up here where the there was a Ben Franklin store, 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.400 Yes, yes. I remember that story. 00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:19.969 Big fire. 00:53:19.969 --> 00:53:20.000 Yeah. 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:57.920 I was up all night fighting fire, and I went to school the next day and taught school. I went out and sat down to the high school principal's office, which being athletic director, I checked in with him every day. What are you doing here? This is my job. Oh, well, I didn't think you'd be here today. You was up all night. I said, that's my civil duty. This is my job. 00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.900 Oh, dedicated, 00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:00.349 Yes. 00:54:00.349 --> 00:54:01.670 Absolutely dedicated. 00:54:01.670 --> 00:54:02.119 Yes. 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:05.659 And, you were Citizen of the Year in 1985. 00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:06.320 Yes. 00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:08.179 That's a pretty cool honor. 00:54:08.179 --> 00:54:08.989 I thought it was. 00:54:08.989 --> 00:54:19.579 Yeah. Isn't that when they used to have you like ride in the Christmas parade? And did you ride the Christmas parade like in a car, or did they just award it to you at the banquet? 00:54:19.579 --> 00:54:20.329 At the banquet. 00:54:20.329 --> 00:54:21.239 At the banquet, okay. 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:55.889 I was at a ball game one night. The principal walked up says, oh, by the way, your wife and family is out here eating dinner at the country club. You're supposed to go out there and eat dinner with them. I'll take over. So, I drove out there. I didn't know what's going on. So, they got to talking and giving speeches, and I'm going, I think I know that guy. And pretty soon they gave me the award. 00:54:55.889 --> 00:54:56.699 That's awesome! 00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:57.360 Yes. 00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:05.000 And then I understand, too, that you were, you were a 2010 Wildflower Run honoree? 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:05.039 Weren't you on a t-shirt and everything, on the Wildflower Run t-shirt? Well, that's pretty cool. Well, is there any other stories that you want to tell me about your time here at Bristow that I didn't ask you about? Anything else you want to share? 00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:20.690 Yes. 00:55:20.690 --> 00:55:21.920 No, I don't. 00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:22.699 You don't think so? 00:55:22.699 --> 00:55:24.079 I don't really know. 00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:36.860 Okay, well, I have a couple of other questions for you, but I but these are just kind of fun questions. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention in your lifetime? 00:55:36.860 --> 00:55:39.710 Oh, man, that's a that's a hard question. 00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:42.349 That is a hard question. I'm challenging you. 00:55:42.349 --> 00:55:45.170 I think the the car was. 00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:46.369 For you, okay. 00:55:46.369 --> 00:55:49.309 For me, because that's all I ever 00:55:49.309 --> 00:55:50.809 You were on the road a lot, weren't you? 00:55:50.809 --> 00:55:57.659 Yes, and my dad and I, we, we rebuilt a lot of cars. 00:55:57.659 --> 00:56:03.170 See, I think that's awesome. My kids are real into car building too. 00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:12.619 Yeah, we a transmission was $5. And now what does that ad say, $3000? 00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:13.730 Yeah, it's crazy. 00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:40.250 But, one day we put my friend of mine who we played, he was the postman in basketball, and played, he and I played end in football, and his dad owned a junkyard, we called it back in the old days. So, I could get parts. 00:56:40.250 --> 00:56:42.170 So, you had a free for all out there, didn't ya? 00:56:42.170 --> 00:56:47.150 Yeah, and he helped me, you know, put them in and out. 00:56:47.150 --> 00:56:57.000 Right, right. Well, that's cool. How do you how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:20.730 The world is too many people are self-centered. Too many people feel sorry for themselves. They don't, they're not fighters anymore. I mean, now, I'm talking fighters. I'm talking about getting out there and stealing the basketball at the end of the game and making a basket to win it. 00:57:20.730 --> 00:57:22.230 Right, right. 00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:30.090 Or, you know, or to come to bat and and hit a home run to win the game. 00:57:30.090 --> 00:57:31.769 Right. 00:57:31.769 --> 00:57:34.500 And there's just too many people that are cry babies. 00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:36.690 Like they've lost their fire or something. 00:57:36.690 --> 00:57:37.590 You're, you're right. 00:57:37.590 --> 00:57:50.440 Yeah, yeah. I, I understand that. As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how would you think you would solve it? 00:57:50.440 --> 00:58:20.710 We are too soft. Now, I was born in '37. We didn't put up with this. Our nation did not put up with this. Germany, they marched, my uncle's made the D-Day invasion. The D-Day invasion was, wow, a guy gets shot right there beside you, and you make it up the hill. 00:58:20.710 --> 00:58:22.000 Right. 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:38.500 We, I remember the president, I lived at [undecipherable] southeast corner of the southeast bedroom was a big old radio. I remember the the president declaring war on Japan. 00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:41.409 How did you feel? How did that make you feel? 00:58:41.409 --> 00:58:42.400 It was scary. 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:46.659 Scary. About how old were you, would you have been? 00:58:46.659 --> 00:58:47.710 Seven. 00:58:47.710 --> 00:58:49.480 So you were little. 00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:57.519 No, I wasn't. I was two, I was probably five, almost six. 00:58:57.519 --> 00:58:59.469 But you that that's like a core memory. 00:58:59.469 --> 00:59:12.460 Yes, see, that was December the seventh. My birthday is on the 12th of January. The hottest my mother carried me the hottest day of the year, summer of the year. 00:59:12.460 --> 00:59:13.269 Right. 00:59:13.269 --> 00:59:18.400 We drove to Muskogee in the snowstorm to give birth. 00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:29.050 Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. But, but you so you remember the feeling of hearing the the declaration of war and how that made you feel. 00:59:29.050 --> 00:59:29.559 Yes. 00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:33.849 And you were fearful about it as a youngster, okay, 00:59:33.849 --> 00:59:37.989 We took naps on Sunday. 00:59:37.989 --> 00:59:39.000 I like that idea. 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:58.619 The the war planes would fly from Oklahoma City over Porum [indecipherable] to Ft. Smith. I would wake up and I would think, oh my gosh, they're coming to bomb us. It would be our planes. 00:59:58.619 --> 00:59:59.519 Right. 00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:00.090 Our war planes. 01:00:00.090 --> 01:00:22.139 But as a kid, that's yeah what you were thinking. Well, how have historic events say, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the 9/11 any natural disasters, world wars or even COVID, have any of those things affected you in your life, aside from what we just talked about? 01:00:22.139 --> 01:01:01.320 Yes. I, Oklahoma City bombing, I was prepared to go down there like other people and help service. I got a phone call from the state office telling me to stay in Bristow, because we were on a main highway. See, okay, and they didn't know if they were going to be bombing, marching up, bombing. 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:01.829 Right. 01:01:01.829 --> 01:01:04.380 And they would need me to stay here. 01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.150 Wow. Okay. 01:01:06.150 --> 01:01:07.110 Now others 01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:11.579 Were you, were you fearful at that time of what was going on in our world? 01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:12.300 Yes, I was. 01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:17.590 Yeah, yeah. I remember, too. It was scary. Um 01:01:17.590 --> 01:01:21.579 Now, not interrupting you, there's been other things like, 01:01:21.579 --> 01:01:24.250 Yeah, go ahead. 01:01:24.250 --> 01:01:30.010 I can't think of what it was crashed in Texas, the space shuttle. 01:01:30.010 --> 01:01:33.309 Oh, yes, right, right. 01:01:33.309 --> 01:01:40.210 And, you know, other things like that was really disturbing, because we never know what was that was it shot down? 01:01:40.210 --> 01:01:41.380 Right. 01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:41.889 You know. 01:01:41.889 --> 01:01:45.000 Right, or like the Twin Towers getting hit. 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:45.130 Yeah, exactly. Well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us? Or, I, honestly, would like to get because I, I would like to hear what Coach Nicholson's words of wisdom are for you to share with future generations. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share to end this. 01:01:45.130 --> 01:02:07.380 Yes, you're right. 01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:09.000 Work hard. 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:53.550 And spend your time with your family. That is important. People about their grandkids or their great grandkids, I say, and their own kids. Enjoy them while you can, because pretty soon, snap a finger, they're going to be off to college and get married and leave. See, I have a great grand I have a grandson that he's worked in Kansas City. He works in California now, and we don't get to see him. 01:02:53.550 --> 01:02:53.969 Right. 01:02:53.969 --> 01:02:59.550 You know. So, you need to enjoy your kids while they're growing up. 01:02:59.550 --> 01:03:03.539 Right. I like that advice. That's good advice. 01:03:03.539 --> 01:03:04.260 That's right. 01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:07.469 And it does. It goes by, it goes by so fast. 01:03:07.469 --> 01:03:08.000 That's right. 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:18.170 It does. Well, your interview will become an important part of the oral history archives for the museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. 01:03:18.170 --> 01:03:18.559 You're welcome. 01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:21.469 And it has definitely been my pleasure. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0071_Charles_Nicholson.xml OHP-0071_Charles_Nicholson.xml
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Charles Nicholson
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Charles Nicholson, a longtime Bristow resident and coach talks about his life and experiences. Born January 12, 1937, in Muskogee, Oklahoma, Charles discusses his parents' backgrounds and his own education and sports achievements, including being ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under tennis and winning the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Championship. He shares stories about his childhood, his marriage to Sharon Allen Scott, and his teaching and coaching career, which included starting the girls' basketball program in Bristow. Charles also reflects on his service as the Creek County Civil Defense Director and his dedication to community safety.
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OHP-0071
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2025/05/09
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Ed Cadenhead
Interviewee
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Curt Gillaspie
Jack Carman
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5.4 June 7, 1979 OHP-0040B Curt Gillaspie OHP-0040B 0:00-23:45 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Curt Gillaspie Jack Carman Ed Cadenhead 1:|11(7)|53(2)|67(15)|74(9)|90(8)|105(5)|117(10)|135(15)|144(1)|153(8)|168(2)|175(4)|186(10)|190(5)|196(7)|204(2)|220(2)|232(8)|245(14)|264(4)|276(14)|292(5)|301(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0040B Gillaspie, Curt.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn’t want [inaudible] that’s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn’t want us to drink. Curt tells about coming to Bristow from Harrisonville, MO and what about what his dad did for a living. black smith ; cotton wagons ; general mercantile ; grist mill ; Harrisonville, Missouri Family History 62 Early Memories EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn’t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn’t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton’s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn’t do it, then two of them would jump on them. Curtis remembers Mrs. West as one of his teachers and getting into fist fights alongside Walter Reed. He recalls Walter giving his adversary a " ; dinner bucket massage" ; . cotton wagon ; dinner bucket massage ; fist fights ; Mrs. West ; school ; Walter Reed Early Memories 256 Jobs EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They’d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don’t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let’s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren’t you? CG: Oh yeah. American LeFrance ; fire chief ; fire department ; lumbar yard fire ; Model T Ford ; oil boom ; unloading box cars ; volunteer department 461 Interesting People EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone… EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. Curtis tells about interesting people he remembers such as George Carman, A.H. Stone and Billy Freshour. A.H. Stone ; Ben Greenwood ; Billy Freshour ; first brick building ; George Carman ; jail ; making brick ; oil boom ; police chief ; US Marshal 619 Bank Robberies EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. Curt tell about hearing the Community State Bank robbery when he was standing at 8th and Main. bank robbery ; Community State Bank 659 Indian Relations EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn’t talk to you. They’d have an Indian girl, she’d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She’d come in the shop, and she’d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She’d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she’d turn around and tell my father. When he’d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He’d say, “How much do you owe me?” And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he’d open it up and he’d get out some money. Then when he’d get ready to put it back in the sack, he’d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. The Indians had interpreters and lived on allotments. allotments ; Creek Freedmen ; Hannah Brown ; Indians ; interpreter ; Newby Creek Freedmen ; Indian Relations 967 Dance Hall EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven’t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that’s where Kemp’s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they’d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. Curtis tells about the dance hall in the back of Bristow Drug Store. Jack tells about Dick Cahill's pool hall. Bristow Drug Store ; dance hall ; Dick Cahill ; Kemp's ; oil boom ; pool hall ; snuff Dance Hall ; Pool Hall 1107 Traveling from Missouri EC: You’re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We’d have to stop and put…[inaudible]. It took Curt's family 15 days to travel 300 miles by covered wagon from Harrisonville, MO. Arkansas River ; covered wagon ; ferry ; Harrisonville, Missouri 1148 Story about Jack Abraham JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven’t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we’d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we’d beat ‘em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. Jack tells the story of trapping a opossum with Jack Abraham and selling the hide to Curt's dad. grist mill ; hides ; Jack Abraham ; opossum ; trapping 1255 Oklahoma Statehood EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn’t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. Curt recalls Oklahoma's statehood, elections, and Indian Territory. Jack tells a story about hunting with his dad and Curt. 1907 ; election ; hunting ; Indian Nation ; Indian Territory ; statehood ; Tom Flynn Hunting ; Oklahoma Statehood In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator' ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn' ; t want [inaudible] that' ; s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn' ; t want us to drink. EC: Ah. What kind of business was he in? Was he-- CG: He was a blacksmith and a they had a general mercantile store and a [indecipherable] grist mill. EC: You were born here, when? CG: Oh no. EC: Oh no. You came-- CG: When I was about three-years-old. EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn' ; t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn' ; t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton' ; s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn' ; t do it, then two of them would jump on them. EC: Yeah. CG: When we was coming one night from school, one of the boys was a fellow by the name of Walter Reed (ph) and he had a gallon dinner bucket with some dishes in it that he carried for his dinner bucket. One of these boys keeps pushing one of them up on him and he eased over to me and said, " ; You keep that one off of me and I' ; ll whoop that fellow." ; I said, " ; Well, I' ; ll try." ; I got back and got me a pop bottle with a short neck, it was about that long. Old Walter, he was giving him a dinner bucket massage, and the blood was running. The other fellow, he run up there, McKay (ph) was his name, and he started to get into the fight. I pushed him back, and I hit him right between the ears with that pop bottle and it went about three foot high. And that old boy got me down, and Walter had to come over and give him a little massage and then I could handle him. So, we both got a lickin' ; from the professor for that. EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They' ; d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don' ; t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let' ; s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren' ; t you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: What was that like? What kind of equipment did you start out with? CG: Oh, we started out with an old Model T Ford. Then we got an American LeFrance. We had it for years. Then we got a Chevrolet fire truck in ' ; 38, and it' ; s still down there. Now they got them Fords and Chevrolets. [Inaudible] EC: Was this a volunteer fire department at one time? CG: Yeah, we had 15 members, and we had three paid men. And then after it got, let' ; s see, ' ; 33, it became partially paid and partially volunteer and it' ; s still that way. EC: What were some of the biggest fires or emergencies that happened while you were working there? CG: Well, the old Pickton (ph) Lumber Yard was pretty bad. You just don' ; t put them lumber yard fires out. EC: When did you start with the fire station? CG: Well, I started when I was 20, I think. 1920. EC: Okay, 1920. So, you were there during at least part of the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. EC: How far out of town did the fire station operate? CG: Oh, we didn' ; t really go out of town. We didn' ; t take the fire trucks because it would take so long out of duty and didn' ; t [indecipherable] come back in service. EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone-- EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. EC: Who else do you think of? CG: Uncle Billy Freshour, he was the old United States Marshal. He was 80-years-old and they appointed him Chief of Police during the oil boom because they was having so much trouble of putting people in jail. Ben Greenwood was the mayor. He said that, my goodness, said the whole police force can' ; t do nothing but put them in jail. Said then " ; How' ; s that 80-year-old man?" ; Ben Greenwood said, " ; Well, I' ; d like to put him on and try him." ; So he wasn' ; t on very long, so they had a big street fight down there on 7th and Main. He told the desk sergeant, he said, " ; Johnny, take care of the desk, and I' ; ll bring the boys up." ; So he went down there and slapped one of them old big boys on the shoulder and said, " ; You' ; ll have to go up to the station." ; He said, " ; You couldn' ; t take me anywhere." ; And he hauled off and slapped Uncle Bill down and he just rolled over on his belly and pulled out the little .38. When the smoke cleared away there was two of them laying on the pavement. And he got up and said, " ; Now boys, if you don' ; t want to see some strange faces in hell, get to walking towards the police station. I' ; ll be behind you with the little gun." ; EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn' ; t talk to you. They' ; d have an Indian girl, she' ; d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She' ; d come in the shop, and she' ; d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She' ; d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she' ; d turn around and tell my father. When he' ; d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He' ; d say, " ; How much do you owe me?" ; And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he' ; d open it up and he' ; d get out some money. Then when he' ; d get ready to put it back in the sack, he' ; d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. EC: Where did most of the Indians that came into Bristow live? CG: Well, they had allotments. You' ; d take, uh, you had some Creek Freedmens here. Creek Freedmen is a slave for the Creek Indians back east where they came from. And they got allotments, too, the Creek Freedmen. Oh, I don' ; t, can' ; t remember who all was Creek Freedmens that I knew. I forgot. [inaudible] Well, he was the United States Marshal under [inaudible]. He was the leader of the Indians. Well, we had old Billy Vann (ph) down in Newby. He kind looked after that bunch of colored boys down there. And we had, oh, there' ; s three or four around. And some white fellow had trouble with some of those colored boys. My dad would go tell them, " ; Now boys we' ; d like to have you around here as neighbors. Let' ; s straighten up and fly right or the little black wagon will back up and get ya." ; I know one that said, " ; Deal." ; Young colored boy knocked an old man down. Old man Scanlon (ph), he was a share cropper. The old man Scanlon (ph) he let his crop grow up in grass. The old man Scanlon (ph) told him, said " ; You' ; ll have to clean this crop up or I' ; ll have to put some teams over here to clean it up." ; So he didn' ; t clean it up and Scanlon (ph) went over with a team and got into it again and knocked him down and went over to Billy Vann' ; s (ph) house and he told one of those share croppers of his, he said, " ; Here' ; s some money. I wished you' ; d go get some liquor and put on a dance down at your house on Saturday night, and we don' ; t want that nigger around here. That was your normal [indecipherable]. EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven' ; t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that' ; s where Kemp' ; s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they' ; d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. EC: Were there any other places like that in Bristow? Dance halls or? CG: Yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh [indecipherable] down there just this side of Johnny' ; s [indecipherable]. And he carried a billy club and give them a massage if they got unruly. EC: Where was this Dick Cahill (ph) name? JC: He had a pool hall, you know, down here, and he got [indecipherable] because of letting kids in there to play pool, you see. So he put a bunch of these old hats in the back table, and when we played pool we had to put on eof those hats on so the women folk looked back there and see--Wound up owning 80 or 90 houses here in town. He was a drug store-- CG: Yeah and on top of that he was a Jew, and his brother was a [indecipherable]. EC: You' ; re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We' ; d have to stop and put--[inaudible]. JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven' ; t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we' ; d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we' ; d beat ' ; em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. He said, " ; God damn, they always die in the trap." ; Well, they' ; re hide' ; s no good, you know, when they die in the trap. I said, " ; Well, what are we going to do with him?" ; He said, " ; Oh, I' ; m going to throw him right here in the weeds." ; So he threw him over there, and we went on to school. He got out of school, at that time, a little earlier than I did. He went down and got this opossum and skinned him and sold him to Curt' ; s dad and he had little gristmill down there and [indecipherable]. So we [indecipherable] down there a lot, you know. We had corn cob pile back there where, you know, they shell corn and have corn cob fight. That evening, I went by there, you know, kind of had a few words with Curt' ; s dad, visited a little while, he says, " ; Well, I see you boys caught a opossum last night." ; And I said, " ; Yeah, but he died in the trap and the hides no good." ; He had to tell him it was a different because Jack had already been there and sold him the hide. [Indecipherable] I haven' ; t brought that up to old Jack in years. I don' ; t know if he would like it or not. EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn' ; t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. CG: Years ago, mother used get letters from Missouri, and they was marked I.T., Indian Territory. But, before that, before the Indian Territory, it was Indian Nation. The first grocery store that was ever here was right back of the printing office up there. It was about 20x20, I guess. A fellow by the name of Tom Flynn [indecipherable]. JC: My dad and his dad was hunting with the superintendent at school. We were all hunting together a lot, you know. Curt was just a whole lot better shot than my dad or the superintendent. And they go out and practice, you know, before they' ; d go hunting. My dad would shoot a target way off, you know, have me down there and bring back the score, you see. Dad would shoot way off one side of the target and wouldn' ; t even put a hole in it. When they got ready to bring the shots back [indecipherable] right close there' ; d just be blistering marks, just a little bit. I' ; m a better shot than you thought. I don' ; t know what' ; s a happening. CG: Oh yeah my father back of Jack' ; s old home back there, they had some pictures [indecipherable]. I' ; ll go get them. There in the house, there. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml
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Curt Gillaspie
Description
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In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief.
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OHP-0040B
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1979-06-07
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audio