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Title
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Family Histories
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
David Barnett
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6.0 September 5, 2024 OHP-0065 David Barnett OHP-0065 01:32:37 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory David Barnett Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0065 Barnett, David.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is September 5, 2024 and I'm sitting here with David Barnett at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; David Leroy Barnett.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And do I have permission to record this interview? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David Leroy Barnett was born on April 15, 1950. He was born in Bristow, Oklahoma at the Sisler Clinic. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow Library Annex ; David Leroy Barnett ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Sisler Clinic Birth 0 42 Parents Regan Siler 
 ; 1950, okay. Can you tell me about the people in your family? Um, let's start with your parents. Can you tell me their full names?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; William Dotson Barnett, born in November of 1920. Syble Marie Horn Barnett, born in January of 1920. I said on Dotson, did I say '20?
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Is it 1914?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David's father was William Dotson Barnett. He was born on November 12, 1914. His mother was Syble Marie Horn Barnett. She was born on January 15, 1920. William Dotson Barnett ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Parents 0 83 Parents' Work Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. And what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, most of their life, they were sharecroppers with my grandparents. My dad and all of his brothers and sisters started out as sharecroppers with their parents, and my dad was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. So, has your family always been here? Or do you know when they came? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; They came around the time I was born. I was last of seven children, and the only one born in Bristow. They lived down south of Holdenville. The last place was south of Holdenville, actually south of Spalding, across the south Canadian River, and my brothers and sisters had to walk across the swinging bridge to get to the school bus.
 ; David's father was a sharecropper with his parents and siblings. His father was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. David's family moved to Bristow not long before he was born. The family lived south of Holdenville before that. Bristow (Okla.) ; Holdenville (Okla.) ; Spalding (Okla.) ; Canadian River ; William Dotson Barnett Work ; Parents 0 142 Siblings Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, my goodness. So, how many and you have, how many siblings?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Have three brothers and three sisters.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And you're the baby.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I'm the baby. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; You're the baby. Okay, well, can you tell me, can you tell me all their names, just so we'll have that on record?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes. Charlene Fairchild is the oldest. Evelyn Cheatwood is the second child. Darryl Dotson Barnett was the third child. Ralph Barnett was the fourth child and Jimmy Dale Barnett was the fifth child. And then Marilyn Hight, it was my baby sister, but she's still older than me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right, and then there and then there was you.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; And then there was me.
 ; David is the youngest of seven children. He has three brothers and three sisters. His siblings are Charlene Fairchild, Evelyn Cheatwood, Darryl Dotson Barnett, Ralph Barnett, Jimmy Dale Barnett and Marilyn Hight. Charlene Fairchild ; Evelyn Cheatwood ; Darryl Dotson Barnett ; Ralph Barnett ; Jimmy Dale Barnett ; Marilyn Hight siblings 0 184 Grandparents Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, so when you were growing up, did you have much family that lived nearby you? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, a lot of the family lived around here, but primarily our my Grandma Horn and her and Grandpa Ben were separated, so she lived with us till she passed when I was about 10-years-old. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. And that would have been your mom's parents?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; My mom's mom.
 ; David had a lot of family nearby when he was growing up. David's maternal grandparents were separated, so his grandmother lived with David and his family until she passed away when David was about 10. Grandparents Grandparents 0 212 Childhood Home Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk about your childhood a little bit. Um, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played as a youngster? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No. There was not a lot to the family was dying, living in a 2-1/2 room house, was you played outside with whatever you could find.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Well, I had talked to Stacey [Stacey Barnett Shields] a little bit, and she said that it was like you were a teenager before you had, like, indoor plumbing?
 ; David and his family lived in a small 2-1/2 bedroom house when he was young. They did not have indoor plumbing until the early 1960's. David and his siblings spent a lot of time outside. Stacey Barnett Shields ; Conrad Fairchild ; California ; Ralph Barnett Home 0 425 Chores Regan Siler 
 ; Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Um, well, did you have chores that you were expected to do as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, yeah, a lot, not a lot, but we did have a milk cow, and I got up before we went to school and milked. And mom sometimes milked in the evening, because she worked like five until one or something.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And, so, you said you were 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mom worked in a restaurant cooking, or cafes around Bristow, cooking.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Until she retired.
 ; David's mother worked a lot when David and his siblings were growing up. She worked in restaurants and cafes around Bristow cooking. David was expected to milk the cow in the mornings before he went to school. Syble Marie Horn Barnett ; Bristow (Okla.) Chores 0 458 Living in Bristow and Stillwater Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. So, have you lived in Bristow your entire life? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Except for the time that we lived in Stillwater for a year after I graduated from OSU from 1970 until '74.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Lived in actually '71 to '74.
 ; David has lived in Bristow most of his life. He lived in Stillwater for bit after he attended OSU. Bristow (Okla.) ; Stillwater (Okla.) ; Oklahoma State University Bristow (Okla.) ; Stillwater (Okla.) 0 477 House in Bristow Regan Siler 
 ; So, whenever you were a kid, did you have like friends that came over and played, or did you mainly just play with your siblings and cousins?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, there was typically kids lived down in the bottom of a hill. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, where was your house at? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Out on the path, on the road, at the dead end road past the old Assembly of God church. You go over there and go all the way to the dead end. It was the next to the last house.
 ; David's childhood home was located on the dead-end road past the old Assembly of God church in Bristow. David believes his mother bought the home in late 1949 off of the Blackwells. Assembly of God church ; Blackwell ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Seventh Street ; Ruby Ritchie ; refinery Home ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 573 Childhood Activities Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child that you can remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Not in particular. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; So, like, what did you like, what were some things that you did as kids? Like, I knew you had to play outside. So,what, what were some things that you would do?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, you tried to build toys out of scraps the best you could. You know, I remember making little hay bales to go on the truck.
 ; David and his siblings used their imaginations and played a lot outdoors as children. They used scrap materials they found to create toys. David's first bicycle was built from materials out of the dump. Activities Activities 0 647 School Regan Siler 
 ; Not really? Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I guess you attended Bristow for grades one through twelve? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, do you remember having any influential teachers?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, I had a lot, you know, probably in the most influential was Carolyn Foster.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; A lot of people mention her.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, hers was more direct influence than others.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right.
 ; David attended Bristow Public Schools until he graduated. He says the most influential teacher he had was Carolyn Foster. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Carolyn Foster School 0 676 Working While in School David Barnett 
 ; I went to work in the seventh, eighth grade, an hour a day for List Motors across where the south end of Bolin, Mainer Ford is now, and worked for him for an hour a day. And then my last three years in high school, I worked for Mancel Murphy. Most of the time, I worked 40 hours a week. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Wow! 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Five hours a day, Monday through Friday, and then 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, what did you do that young working for List Motors? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Just sweeping the floor and cleaning up.
 ; David worked for List Motors an hour a day when he was in the seventh or eighth grade. He would sweep the floors and do some cleaning. Then when he was in high school, he worked for Mancel Murphy. He typically worked forty hours a week. David would work five hours a day Monday through Friday and then ten-hour days on Saturday and Sundays. List Motors ; Bolin Ford ; Mainer Ford ; Mancel Murphy ; Champlain gas station ; Noel Propst ; Phillips 66 ; Bill Farha Sr. Work 0 788 Walking to School Regan Siler 
 ; It's kind of like my dad never got a riding lawn mower until after we left home. We always had two push mowers. Well, do you remember how you got to school?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Walked most of the time. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Walked? Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; That's kind of like selling the milk cow. The school bus started coming up to the end of the road the very week that I got my car, and I was sixteen. So, up to that time all of the kids walked.
 ; David walked to school most of his childhood. He says the bus started coming to the end of their road the week he got his car when he was sixteen. McDonald's ; Casey's School 0 847 Teachers and Favorite Subject Regan Siler 
 ; Right. Okay. Um, were you a member of any clubs or organizations when you were in school? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Well, so I mean, did you like school? Did you enjoy school? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mostly, yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Did you have a favorite subject? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, probably math because it was easiest for me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right.
 ; David says he mostly enjoyed school. He especially enjoyed math because it was easy for him. David says that Tom Miller was the best math teacher he ever had in school. He also says that Neva Gurley was a strong math teacher. When David was in high school, Carolyn Foster was the one who asked him if he had thought about a career in banking. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Tom Miller ; Neva Gurley ; Carolyn Foster ; Oklahoma State University School 0 1015 Sleeping in Childhood Home Regan Siler 
 ; Right, okay, um, well, we've talked a little bit about the house you grew up in. I would like to kind of circle back to that. Um, obviously, if there was at least nine people living there, you probably had to share a room with a lot of siblings, I'm guessing.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, well, there was a bed in the living room. That was one of the pieces of furniture in the living room. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Was a bed.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mom and grandma slept in it.
 ; David's childhood home was very small. He shared a room with a lot of his siblings. His mother and grandmother shared a bed in the living room. Syble Marie Horn Barnett Home 0 1067 Mealtimes Regan Siler 
 ; Yeah, there just wasn't much stuff. Okay, well, what were meal times like for your family?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I don't know. My oldest sister got married when I was five. She had her first child by the time, I was an uncle, by the time I was six.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, wow!
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; My sister, Evelyn, is the one and Grandma Horn, pretty much, took care of me, you know. And then mom was there of an evening, so meals were usually simple, you know. 
 ; Meals were a big deal in David's family. They all sat down to eat meals together. David's favorite meal that his mother cooked was fried chicken. They typically only got meat on Sundays. Evelyn Cheatwood ; Grandma Horn ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett Mealtimes 0 1212 Cooking Regan Siler 
 ; And your mom worked in cafes around town, different cafes. Was she known at any I mean?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, it was, she was one of the real good cooks. Fact is, I don't know whether she invented the recipe, but the recipe for the Lions Club pancake batter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; I was going to ask you about that.
 ; David's mother cooked in cafes around town. She worked at the Harvey House and then later at the Highway Cafe. She was at the Highway Cafe for probably 15-20 years. David says that he got the recipe for pancake batter that he still uses for the Lions Club breakfast from his mother. David worked lunches at the Highway Cafe in exchange for his lunch. Lions Club ; Highway Cafe ; Thelma Groom ; Harvey House ; Dr. Schafer ; Ford Hardware ; Bristow (Okla.) Cooking 0 1456 Western Heritage Days Regan Siler 
 ; Right. Um, well, thinking back to like town life growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities, as like, you know, say, during your school age, probably more like teenage years. Like, I'm thinking like Western Heritage Days, or day camp, parades, county fairs, like, can you tell me about any of that?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Western Heritage Days. I never attended day camp. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, so tell me about Western Heritage Days. What was that like for you?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, it was a big deal. I mean, you know, it was a lot more people in town, and lasted a lot longer.
 ; David says he never attended day camp in Bristow growing up. He says that Western Heritage Days was a big deal. He says there were a lot of people, and it was much bigger than it is nowadays. Western Heritage Days ; Day camps Western Heritage Days 0 1513 Businesses Around Town Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, well, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town that you remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, Strong's Hardware had been here for Eddie Strong had Strong's Hardware. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Didn't really walk up and down Main Street a lot. We went to the Holiness Church when I was younger, so we walked all the way down to railroad track and then to church. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, was it located at the same location that it is now? Okay.
 ; David remembers Strong's Hardware as being popular when he was young. He says Hamburger King was popular, but he never ate a hamburger from there. Jack Abraham had a diner that served a lot of coffee. Strong's Hardware ; Eddie Strong ; Main Street ; Bristow Holiness Church ; Hamburger King ; Jack Abraham Business 0 1626 Teenage Life Regan Siler 
 ; Well, did you have any favorite places to hang out as a teenager? Like, say, when you started driving and you were hanging out with your friends. Like, where were some of places you would go?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, we went to Teen Town on Saturday night.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, what is teen town? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; It was down there, probably where the empty lot is, is it on Ninth Street, on the north side of the street, across from
 ; David says he went to Teen Town on Saturday nights when he was a teenager. Teens would play there with their bands. Lester Brace's wife was in charge and kept it going. One of the bands was Jack Abraham, Bobby Abraham, Mike Bishop and Buddy Farris. Teen Town ; Bristow Historical Society ; Lester Brace ; Jack Abraham ; Bobby Abraham ; Mike Bishop ; Buddy Farris ; Hamburger King ; Route 66 ; Elks Lodge Teenage Life 0 1824 Clothing Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. No. I mean, that's fine. Um, well, do you remember where you got most of your clothes? Did your did your family make it? Did make your clothes? Did you buy your clothes?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, most of mine if I remember right were hand me downs. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Hand me downs. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David doesn't really remember where most of his clothes as a child came from. He says that you wore what was available. He believes most of his clothing was hand me downs, probably from his brothers. Clothing Clothing 0 1861 Family Car Regan Siler 
 ; You just had them. Okay. Well, do you remember your family's first car, what it was?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, it's a '54 Chevrolet.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; '54 Chevrolet. Did you ever get to take any vacations or anything in it? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, no.
 ; David's family's first car was a 1954 Chevrolet. He says they never vacationed in it though. David's mother worked nearly 365 days a year and was rarely off. Chevrolet automobile ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Car 0 1887 First Car Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, do you remember what your first car was?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; A '62 Ford Fairlane. Actually, it was probably the '54 Chevy, but that was driving it messed up the front end of it. And that's when I got to '62 Ford Fairlane. And turns out my brother in law fixed the '54 Chevy, and my sister drove it for 20 years. It was, it was a good car. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; It was a good car.
 ; David's first car was a 1962 Ford Fairlane. He paid $800 for it. David worked at Champlain's to make the payments. David and Ellen bought a second car, a bigger Chevy after they were married. Bill Shattuck ; Baptist Church ; Ford Fairlane ; Chevrolet automobile ; Toyota automobiles ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Champlain Station Car 0 2039 Learning to Drive Regan Siler 
 ; Do you remember who taught you how to drive?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I don't. I remember when granddad passed away, of course, I was 14, and we had his, we inherited his old pickup, but the battery was bad, so we kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down and start it. And I took mom to work in in that until we bought the '54 Chevy. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And did you do that before you were actually able to drive?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I was 14. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; And the police met us at the, well, they met her at the Highway Cafe every morning to open up. And, you know, I was nervous they was gonna find out about me. I'm sure they knew!
 ; David started driving when he was 14 years old. David's family inherited his grandfather's truck when he passed away. The battery was bad, so they kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down to start it. David would drive this to take his mother to work until they bought the 1954 Chevy. Chevrolet automobile ; Highway Cafe ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Drive 0 2085 Television Regan Siler 
 ; They probably did know. So did you guys, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you have a TV or?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, I bought the first TV from somebody that came by when, when I was at Champlin, so that would have been '66.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, man, um, and that was for your family or for 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Everybody was out of the house, basically but me.
 ; David and his family did not own a television until 1966. He was a teenager so most of his siblings were out of the home by then. David bought it from someone who stopped by Champlain when he was working. Television ; Champlain Station Televsion 0 2131 Medical Care Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Um. So, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you guys have a family doctor? Did you usually just try to handle stuff at home or?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; We had a family doctor, but mostly, if we had something, we went to Dr. Czeskleba (Clayton Czeskleba) in Tulsa. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Czeskleba.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David would visit the Sisler Clinic for medical care as a child. Dr. Czeskleba was their family doctor. David fell off of the gate and shattered his hip when he was three. The county commissioner took David in his car to the Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City. David was in traction for six or eight weeks. Clayton Czeskleba ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Sisler Clinic ; Children's Hospital ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; county commissioner ; Shawnee (Okla.) Medical care 0 2393 Church Regan Siler 
 ; Right. And, so, that's who you remember seeing. Um, so then you you mentioned that growing up, you attended the Holiness Church. Do you have much memory of like, what a service was like, or maybe what was your favorite part of church?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I think we traveled with others. They had youth nights. You know, you'd go to other churches like Burnett Wick Mission (ph) and Highway Mission and Paden, and a few churches around here.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David attended the Bristow Holiness Church as a child. He says they attended youth nights at other area churches (Paden, Highway Mission and Burnett Mission Church.) He also attended the camp meeting that was north of town. Church ; Bristow Holiness Church ; Burnett Mission Holiness Church ; Highway Mission ; Paden Holiness Church ; Paden (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Church 0 2443 Holidays Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Um, so what were holidays like with with your family, for instance, tell me, what a typical Christmas was like for your family when you were younger? Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, it would evolve around food. Mom made sure we had food, and, usually, a big spread, and 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; That was the big 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Multiple desserts.
 ; David says that their family holidays revolved around food. His mother made a big spread with multiple desserts. Gifts were not a big part of Christmas for them. He does remember his sister giving him some comic book hero underwear one year. David remembers Easter and Thanksgiving also being a big deal. Holidays ; Christmas ; Thanksgiving ; Easter ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Holidays 0 2551 Career Dreams Regan Siler 
 ; Um, do you remember as a child ever thinking about what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, I really didn't spend even when I went off to college, I didn't.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; You still didn't know. So, even when you were little, you didn't think, oh, I want to be a veterinarian? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, never, any of that.
 ; David didn't really think about what he wanted to be when he grew up. He says even when he went off to college that he didn't know. David ended up getting his degree in organizational analysis, which was systems approach to personnel management. College ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Stacey Lynn Shields ; Microsoft Excel (Computer file) Career 0 2658 Father, William Dotson Barnett David Barnett 
 ; Well, it was kind of interesting. Didn't really talk about family history and dad's issues, other than mom took us to see him when she could, until around 1985 when we was in the 80 in her early 80s, she talked about it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, you didn't know?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I didn't know a lot. I mean
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Is that something you want to talk about in this interview, I mean?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; It doesn't matter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David's father wasn't around when David was growing up. He was institutionalized in late 1949 and was a ward of the state. He had run off to California and they brought him back. David was able to work things out to get his father moved to Rainbow Nursing Home in Bristow in the 1980's. David's mother was also in Rainbow. William Dotson Barnett ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett ; California ; Elk City (Okla.) ; Dale Dickens ; Department of Human Services ; Ada (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; Bonita Bishop ; Goldie Stice ; Dementia ; Creoks ; Schizophrenia ; Herbert Barnett Father 0 3391 College Regan Siler 
 ; Yes, I understand. Well, well, is it alright if we circle back a little bit to your college life? Because we, we kind of skipped past that a little bit, too. Um, so you decided to go to OSU? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; That took about five years, you said, to get, get through that. Um, did you enjoy your experience at OSU?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, I attended as many athletic events as I could. You know, of course, back then, it came with the you didn't have to pay extra,
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right.
 ; David attended OSU for college. He went there for five years. David attended many athletic events while in college. Oklahoma State University ; Champlain Station ; Community Bank College 0 3513 Jobs Regan Siler 
 ; You just, you just tell us, you can start from, from all your jobs if you want to.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I worked down there during the winter I worked, but then the summer, I worked for the Turnpike Authority.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Where they was resurfacing a quarter of each of the Turner Turnpike. And, the first two summers I worked in the scale house, weighing out trucks for the Turnpike Authority, and then the summer, the fall, but when we got married, I worked on the maintenance crew until December, I mean, [indecipherable]. And then in the spring, I went to work and I laid carpet with Mr. McKay. I went to school, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we laid carpet Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And that was about the time the carpet mill went out. So, there was people that bought a lot of there was some three different colors of shag carpet.
 ; David worked for the Turnpike Authority. He also laid carpet with Mr. McKay. He worked for Cummings Construction too. Later he applied for UPS and got the job out of 60 applicants. David received a call in 1974 from Arthur Foster. He went to work at the bank and basically received a fifty percent pay cut from UPS. He was at the bank from 1974 to 1980. David's brothers had started an oil service business called Barnett Operations. By April of 1982 they had 52 employees. By 1985, the oilfield business was going south, and David went back to the bank. Turnpike Authority ; Cummings Construction ; United Parcel Service ; Stillwater (Okla.) ; Arthur Foster ; Barnett Operating ; Barnett Power Tongs ; Penn Square ; Doy Holderfield Jobs 0 3838 Bank Regan Siler 
 ; In the oil field. I bet, I bet. And, so, then he went back to the bank, so tell me about the bank, since that's definitely kind of a Bristow icon. Tell me about your time at the bank and what that was like. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I became cashier, and then I was trained to be a loan officer, and and the cashier left that was there and, and I took the cashier position back, because cashiers were harder to find than loan officers so, so I was actually a cashier with three different times.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And you were there a total of 30 years? Is that right? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, I was there from '85 until the end of '20.
 ; David went back to work at the bank in 1985. He became a cashier. He then was trained to be a loan officer and did that for a time. David was with Community Bank from 1985 until the end of 2020. David still has minority ownership of the bank. Bristow (Okla.) ; Community Bank ; George Krumme ; Williams Company ; E.F. Hutton ; Dorcas Kelly ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Sooner Southwest ; Security First National ; Hugo (Okla.) ; First National Bank ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Poteau (Okla.) ; United Way ; Bristow Chamber ; Park Board Bank 0 4244 Church Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, maybe that's what it was that Stacey had mentioned. Okay, so you're, it's obvious that you're very community involved, and especially like through church. Which you attend First Church of God now? Right? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Correct. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And how long have you been, how long have you been there?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Basically, since it came in '74.
 ; David attends the First Church of God in Bristow. He has been there since 1974. Stacey Lynn Shields ; First Church of God ; Nazarene Church Church 0 4270 Wife, Ellen Louise Propst Barnett Regan Siler 
 ; I know you'd mentioned, and, and while we're, we can't get out of this without talking about your family, because I know your family is a super important to you. So, can you tell me what your spouse's full name is, and where did you meet her? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Ellen Louise Propst [Barnett] and met her at school.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; At OSU?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No at Bristow.
 ; David met his wife at school in Bristow. She was shy but spotted David first. Her father was Noel Propst, and he owned the service station where Subway currently is located. David and Ellen were together for about two years before marriage. They were married in August of 1970. Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Oklahoma State University ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Noel Propst ; Phillips station ; Subway ; Jeep automobile wife 0 4388 Wedding Regan Siler 
 ; I'm going to get you in trouble, aren't I? Um, so what was your did you have just like a normal wedding, or did,?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And it was at the Nazarene church?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Right. And it was a day that was one of the hottest days of the year. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, gosh!
 ; David and Ellen were married in August of 1970. They held the ceremony at the Nazarene Church. It was one of the hottest days of the year. Nazarene Church ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Stillwater (Okla.) Wedding 0 4444 Early Marriage Regan Siler 
 ; Well, so can you tell me, like, what your early years of marriage was like? Was it? Tell me about it.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Just enjoyable. I mean, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Did you struggle? Was it?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, wasn't any, you know, I, like I said, I worked on the turnpike maintenance, and she didn't work that fall, and then worked on laying carpet, you know. So, we didn't have a lot.
 ; David says that the early years of their marriage were enjoyable. He says they didn't have a lot but that they didn't know that then. Marriage Marriage 0 4489 Homes After Marriage Regan Siler 
 ; So, you lived, did you live in Stillwater together for?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, when we first got married, we had lived in the Corey's (ph) little rent house behind their house up at 10th and something just before you go in the new edition. Last little place for you go into the new edition. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Cute little house. She still talks about it, but the Judge Corey (ph) and his wife kept it up nice and and then Noel helped us, or bought a trailer for us, and we moved when we moved to Stillwater the following year. And, so, we lived in it, and then when we moved back to Bristow, three years later, the trailer is still sitting out there on the five mile road south of Kathy's [Kathy Bacon] house.
 ; David and Ellen lived in the Corey's little rent house on 10th street after marriage. Then Noel bought them a trailer and they moved to Stillwater the following year. Three years later, they moved back to Bristow. David and Ellen built a house in 1977 or 1978 on South Hickory. Stillwater (Okla.) ; Noel Propst ; Kathy Bacon ; Ellen Lousie Propst Barnett ; Stacey Lynn Shields Homes 0 4571 Children Regan Siler 
 ; South Hickory, huh? Um, well, and since you mentioned your kids, tell me, tell me how many children you have and what their full names are.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Stacey Lynn Shields and David Blake Barnett. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; David Blake Barnett. Okay, and I have Stacey's birth date as 11/1/76 and Blake's as 8/18/79.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Correct.
 ; David and Ellen have two children. They have a daughter, Stacey Lynn Shields and a son, David Blake Barnett. David says Stacey was probably six months old before he really started enjoying being a father. Stacey Lynn Shields ; David Blake Barnett ; Freddie's ; Joseph's Children 0 4739 Grandchildren Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, my goodness, okay, well, and, so, while we're still on your your family, I know you have grandkids, so tell me how many grandkids you have and what their names are.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I have six grandkids. Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver, Barnett and Talus Barnett. And I have a bonus Riley Walker, grandson.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David and Helen have six grandchildren. Their names are Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver Barnett and Talus Barnett. They have a bonus grandson, Riley Walker. Chapman Shields ; Cooper Shields ; Cyler Shields ; Bryson Barnett ; Carver Barnett ; Talus Barnett ; Riley Walker ; Noel Propst ; Tony Bacon ; Lowell Propst ; Lions Club ; Industrial Authority ; Stacey Lynn Shields ; Chamber of Commerce ; Main Street Grandchildren 0 4911 Bank History David Barnett 
 ; At some point, maybe we might go over some of the bank history that I remember.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, well, go ahead, go right ahead. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, when we came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme's dad for a few months down at Krumme Oil Company.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; When David and Ellen came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme at the Krumme Oil Company. Eventually the two Krumme brothers ended up basically being 100% shareholders of the bank. Now Sooner Southwest own four banks. Bristow (Okla.) ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; George Krumme ; Krumme Oil Company ; Arthur Foster ; Debbie Farha Sr. ; Community Bank ; Harlan Krumme ; TP McAdams ; McAdams Pipe and Supply ; David Loeffler ; Walmart ; Roger Collins ; Anadarko Bank ; Security First National ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Oklahoma Capital Bank ; Sooner Southwest Bank 0 5278 Most Important Invention Regan Siler 
 ; Or I think they may be fun. I don't know. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Probably the cell phone if I was guessing most 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Good and bad.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, yeah, right, yes.
 ; David thinks that the cell phone is the most important invention in his lifetime. Invention ; Cell Phone Invention 0 5300 How the World is Different Regan Siler 
 ; I can't disagree with that answer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, because of the cell phone and the access to information, good information and bad information, it's completely different because, you know, some things that would not have been, you know, 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Available?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Right. You know, sometimes things are just better left unknown.
 ; David says the cell phone has changed the world so much in his lifetime. He says the bank had recently acquired their first computer when he returned in 1985. He says it was a $20,000 computer that took 5 to 10 minutes just to boot up. Now we basically carry small computers around in our pockets as smart phones. Computer ; Cell Phone World 0 MP4 David's parents, William Dotson Barnett and Syble Marie Horn Barnett, were sharecroppers. David, the youngest of seven children, attended Bristow schools and worked various jobs, including at List Motors and Mancel Murphy's gas station. He attended OSU, earning a degree in organizational analysis. David worked at Community Bank for 30 years, starting in 1974, and co-founded Barnett Operations, an oil field service business. He also served on several community boards and attended First Church of God since 1974. David shared about his wife Ellen and two children, Stacey and Blake. He also talked about his role in the community, including his involvement with the Industrial Authority and Community Bank. David reflected on the impact of technology, particularly the cell phone, and emphasized the importance of integrity and commitment in family and work. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.329 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is September 5, 2024 and I'm sitting here with David Barnett at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:24.329 --> 00:00:26.129 David Leroy Barnett. 00:00:26.129 --> 00:00:28.559 And do I have permission to record this interview? 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:29.160 Yes. 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:34.259 Okay. Can you tell me when and where you were born? 00:00:34.259 --> 00:00:42.750 I was born in Bristow, I believe, at the Sisler Clinic in April 15, 1950. 00:00:42.750 --> 00:00:53.280 1950, okay. Can you tell me about the people in your family? Um, let's start with your parents. Can you tell me their full names? 00:00:53.280 --> 00:01:08.370 William Dotson Barnett, born in November of 1920. Syble Marie Horn Barnett, born in January of 1920. I said on Dotson, did I say '20? 00:01:08.370 --> 00:01:10.079 Is it 1914? 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:10.319 Yes. 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:12.569 Because I have, I have for your dad. 00:01:12.569 --> 00:01:14.909 I was thinking '14 and said '20. 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:21.870 I have your dad as 11/12/1914 and then I have your mom as 1/15/1920. 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:22.109 Right. 00:01:22.109 --> 00:01:23.069 Does that sound right? 00:01:23.069 --> 00:01:23.459 Yes. 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:28.500 Okay. And what type of work did your parents do? 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:50.340 Well, most of their life, they were sharecroppers with my grandparents. My dad and all of his brothers and sisters started out as sharecroppers with their parents, and my dad was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:55.530 Okay. So, has your family always been here? Or do you know when they came? 00:01:55.530 --> 00:02:22.169 They came around the time I was born. I was last of seven children, and the only one born in Bristow. They lived down south of Holdenville. The last place was south of Holdenville, actually south of Spalding, across the south Canadian River, and my brothers and sisters had to walk across the swinging bridge to get to the school bus. 00:02:22.169 --> 00:02:26.129 Oh, my goodness. So, how many and you have, how many siblings? 00:02:26.129 --> 00:02:27.930 Have three brothers and three sisters. 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:29.069 And you're the baby. 00:02:29.069 --> 00:02:29.789 I'm the baby. 00:02:29.789 --> 00:02:36.870 You're the baby. Okay, well, can you tell me, can you tell me all their names, just so we'll have that on record? 00:02:36.870 --> 00:03:01.439 Yes. Charlene Fairchild is the oldest. Evelyn Cheatwood is the second child. Darryl Dotson Barnett was the third child. Ralph Barnett was the fourth child and Jimmy Dale Barnett was the fifth child. And then Marilyn Hight, it was my baby sister, but she's still older than me. 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.780 Right, right, and then there and then there was you. 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:04.770 And then there was me. 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:12.150 Okay, um, so when you were growing up, did you have much family that lived nearby you? 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:28.949 Yeah, a lot of the family lived around here, but primarily our my Grandma Horn and her and Grandpa Ben were separated, so she lived with us till she passed when I was about 10-years-old. 00:03:28.949 --> 00:03:31.560 Okay. And that would have been your mom's parents? 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:32.610 My mom's mom. 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:47.370 Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk about your childhood a little bit. Um, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played as a youngster? 00:03:47.370 --> 00:03:57.810 No. There was not a lot to the family was dying, living in a 2-1/2 room house, was you played outside with whatever you could find. 00:03:57.810 --> 00:04:09.180 Right, right. Well, I had talked to Stacey [Stacey Barnett Shields] a little bit, and she said that it was like you were a teenager before you had, like, indoor plumbing? 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:31.230 Yes. When my, actually, we got running water at the house in the early 60s. My brother in law, Conrad Fairchild, came back, and Ralph was on leave, and they put a pump and a well house on the well. Up to that point, you pulled it with a rope. 00:04:31.230 --> 00:04:38.250 Oh, my goodness. So, there was nine people living in...how big would you say your house was? 00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:57.810 Well, when, when granddad died in '64, in '65 mom added on two rooms. And after taking out closets, those two rooms that were the living room and the bedroom in the shotgun house, were not huge bedrooms./ 00:04:57.810 --> 00:04:58.470 Right. 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:18.000 So, I would say 15x15 or 16x16 size rooms. In the kitchen, I remember is it had a the dining room table. When we sit down to eat, you slid into the seats. There wasn't, the kitchen was not big enough. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.220 So, was it like a bench that you sat on? 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:22.319 Well, no, it was chairs, but 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:23.699 You just had to scoot in? 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:26.610 Yes, it wasn't a huge. 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:27.480 Right. 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:35.639 It became the bathroom and the laundry room when she added on, and that's when we got indoor plumbing in '65. 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:42.959 In '65. And then Stacey also mentioned that whenever you had company, you had to sleep outside? 00:05:42.959 --> 00:06:15.540 Well, we slept outside a majority of the summer because we didn't have air conditioning and yeah, so I don't remember what year it was, but my aunt and uncle, who also had seven kids, moved back from California and stayed with us most of one summer. And, so, it was just about 10 years ago, Ralph laughed and said it was a good night when you got to sleep in the back seat of a car. 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:17.399 Oh, my gosh! 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:18.629 So, yes. 00:06:18.629 --> 00:06:22.410 So, what was your bedding? I mean, like, what did you sleep on when you had to sleep outside? 00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:27.209 Rollaways. We had a couple of rollaways that, you know, would fold up and be in the house. 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:29.519 Did you get eat up by mosquitoes? 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:35.189 Probably. I don't remember them being as bad as now, but, yeah. 00:06:35.189 --> 00:06:38.879 Oh my gosh. And you, I guess, you didn't worry about, like, animals or? 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:57.810 Well, yeah, I wasn't a fraidy cat, so, yes, I did. One of the most, most memorable night is the cow got out and I felt something up over my face, breathing about three inches away from my face. Needless to say, I was scared to death. 00:06:57.810 --> 00:06:59.040 Oh, and it was a cow? 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:05.009 It was the cow, yeah, but it was so close I couldn't tell what it was. It was big and scary. 00:07:05.009 --> 00:07:12.269 Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Um, well, did you have chores that you were expected to do as a youngster? 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:30.300 Well, yeah, a lot, not a lot, but we did have a milk cow, and I got up before we went to school and milked. And mom sometimes milked in the evening, because she worked like five until one or something. 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.069 And, so, you said you were 00:07:32.069 --> 00:07:36.870 Mom worked in a restaurant cooking, or cafes around Bristow, cooking. 00:07:36.870 --> 00:07:37.379 Okay. 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:38.699 Until she retired. 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:43.290 Okay. So, have you lived in Bristow your entire life? 00:07:43.290 --> 00:07:43.709 Yes. 00:07:43.709 --> 00:07:44.009 Okay. 00:07:44.009 --> 00:07:53.009 Except for the time that we lived in Stillwater for a year after I graduated from OSU from 1970 until '74. 00:07:53.009 --> 00:07:53.430 Okay. 00:07:53.430 --> 00:07:57.089 Lived in actually '71 to '74. 00:07:57.089 --> 00:08:05.579 So, whenever you were a kid, did you have like friends that came over and played, or did you mainly just play with your siblings and cousins? 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:11.339 Well, there was typically kids lived down in the bottom of a hill. 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:13.019 So, where was your house at? 00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:26.069 Out on the path, on the road, at the dead end road past the old Assembly of God church. You go over there and go all the way to the dead end. It was the next to the last house. 00:08:26.069 --> 00:08:31.980 Oh, okay. And how and so, how long was that like your family home for how long? 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:46.799 Well, Mom bought it off the Blackwells. The Blackwells moved to town, and she purchased it when they moved to Bristow. Would assume that it was probably in late '49. 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.009 Okay. 00:08:50.009 --> 00:08:59.100 Blackwells moved over on Seventh Street, and Ruby Ritchie, her parents, that's where Ruby and Ruby 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:00.389 Oh, okay! I didn't know that. 00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:07.710 Yeah, Ruby Ritchie, there the Blackwells were pretty close. We were more like cousins. 00:09:07.710 --> 00:09:08.610 Right, right. 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:09.509 So, yeah. 00:09:09.509 --> 00:09:13.379 So, was the, was the refinery and everything out there at that time. 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:16.200 The refinery finally closed in 1958. 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.200 So, it was out there for part of the time you were there. 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:33.059 There was the tank farm was there for a few years past that, the big tanks like over at Cushing, but there was, I think, seven big tanks out there, directly south, across from us. 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:41.610 Okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child that you can remember? 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:43.320 Not in particular. 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:50.610 So, like, what did you like, what were some things that you did as kids? Like, I knew you had to play outside. So,what, what were some things that you would do? 00:09:50.610 --> 00:10:05.909 Well, you tried to build toys out of scraps the best you could. You know, I remember making little hay bales to go on the truck. 00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:08.250 You had to use your imagination is what you're saying. 00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:16.620 That and the scrap the down on the tank farm, as we called it, there was a dump, and people dumped stuff in there. 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:17.610 You found treasures. 00:10:17.610 --> 00:10:40.830 So, we found some scraps that worked. My first bicycle was built out of scraps from, from down there, and rode it to town a lot of times. No fenders. So, when it was raining, you know, you didn't want to ride too much. 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:46.620 Okay, do you remember collecting anything as a child? 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:47.639 No, not really. 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:54.840 Not really? Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I guess you attended Bristow for grades one through twelve? 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:55.350 Yes. 00:10:55.350 --> 00:11:01.080 Okay, um, do you remember having any influential teachers? 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:08.460 Oh, I had a lot, you know, probably in the most influential was Carolyn Foster. 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:10.559 A lot of people mention her. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.710 Well, hers was more direct influence than others. 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:16.820 Right. 00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:42.860 I went to work in the seventh, eighth grade, an hour a day for List Motors across where the south end of Bolin, Mainer Ford is now, and worked for him for an hour a day. And then my last three years in high school, I worked for Mancel Murphy. Most of the time, I worked 40 hours a week. 00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:44.629 Wow! 00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:50.090 Five hours a day, Monday through Friday, and then 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:54.470 So, what did you do that young working for List Motors? 00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:56.990 Just sweeping the floor and cleaning up. 00:11:56.990 --> 00:12:00.470 Stuff like that and then, so, what did you do at the other job? 00:12:00.470 --> 00:12:09.059 For Mancel? It was the gas station down on Fifth Street, Champlain gas station, where Fifth and Main. 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:09.899 Okay. 00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:15.659 For the repair shop, or, you know, it's been a golf cart. 00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:20.789 Okay, yeah, right, right. Okay. So, that was a, that was a gas station? 00:12:20.789 --> 00:12:21.269 Yes. 00:12:21.269 --> 00:12:23.070 Okay. 00:12:23.070 --> 00:12:25.980 Noel [Noel Propst] had the gas station at Fourth and Main. 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:26.370 Right. 00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:27.929 It was a Phillips 66. 00:12:27.929 --> 00:12:28.440 Right. 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:35.639 He had, originally, had with Bill Farha, Sr. had the location the Champion Sation. 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:44.070 Okay, so, you work there for 40 hours a week as a young person, plus went to school? 00:12:44.070 --> 00:12:44.669 Yes. 00:12:44.669 --> 00:12:47.100 Wow, that's impressive! 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:51.299 But, I don't know if it was impressive, but it was reality. 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:54.029 Well, yeah, I guess you do what you have to do, huh? 00:12:54.029 --> 00:13:08.669 Yes. And still got up and milk the cow. Mom didn't sell the milk cow until we went off to college. That's my favorite story. I still got up before school to milk the cow or work every day. 00:13:08.669 --> 00:13:21.419 It's kind of like my dad never got a riding lawn mower until after we left home. We always had two push mowers. Well, do you remember how you got to school? 00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:22.590 Walked most of the time. 00:13:22.590 --> 00:13:24.840 Walked? Okay. 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:38.490 That's kind of like selling the milk cow. The school bus started coming up to the end of the road the very week that I got my car, and I was sixteen. So, up to that time all of the kids walked. 00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:39.000 Always had to walk. 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:53.879 Well, we could go down and catch the bus down there. There was an old freight dock down there, where the road that goes up to McDonald's, right behind the road that goes back right behind the where they're building the new Casey's. 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:54.000 Uh huh. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:54.240 Oh! 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:00.179 Right on the east side of that there was a freight dock. And we could go down and catch the bus right there. 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:07.000 But, you know, we could start later and get there quicker by walking up the railroad track. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:07.080 Yeah, I can't remember which ones, but yes, a couple of them, yes. And then last couple of years, I was on, I was a treasurer, or whatever, for the, I don't remember what it's called now. 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:32.740 Right. Okay. Um, were you a member of any clubs or organizations when you were in school? 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:35.830 Well, so I mean, did you like school? Did you enjoy school? 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:36.850 Mostly, yeah. 00:14:36.850 --> 00:14:39.220 Did you have a favorite subject? 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:44.080 Well, probably math because it was easiest for me. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.190 Right. 00:14:46.190 --> 00:14:55.159 My best math teacher was in middle school, Tom Miller. He was the best math teacher including college whoI ever had. 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:55.610 Really? 00:14:55.610 --> 00:15:08.899 And he was the hardest, by far, of any teacher, math teacher I ever had. Had a lot of good math teachers, but Tom Miller was the, was the best math teacher. 00:15:08.899 --> 00:15:10.970 I probably could have used Tom Miller. 00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:18.710 Well, you might not have. Maybe it was a tie on hard between him and Neva Gurley. 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:19.490 Okay. 00:15:19.490 --> 00:15:20.570 She was tough. 00:15:20.570 --> 00:15:21.799 She was tough also? 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:31.190 Yeah, but he was, I think, a better teacher, but she was a really strong math teacher. That was in elementary school. 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:32.659 Right, okay. 00:15:32.659 --> 00:15:46.259 And then Carolyn [Carolyn Foster] asked me when I got in high school if I thought about a career in banking. And at that time, I didn't. I didn't even have a checking account until I got my car. I had to, you know, a car loan. But 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:51.820 So, did you have any idea what you wanted to do at that time? Or was that kind of like, what in the world, whenever she asked you that? 00:15:51.820 --> 00:16:05.200 No, I, for some reason, I decided that I wanted to get a college education. None of my brothers spent much time in high school. Most of them dropped out. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.799 Really? 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.230 Early years of high school. 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:11.590 And just, like, went to work or? 00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:15.789 Work and/or goofing around. 00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:18.399 Okay. 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:24.580 All three of my sisters graduated from high school, but none went to college, 00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:27.480 So, you just felt driven to do that? That was something you wanted? 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.159 Yeah, for whatever, I have no idea why. 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.600 You're not sure why. Okay. 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.250 And I went to OSU, so. 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:39.919 Yeah, okay, do you did you enjoy reading? And if so, like, what types of books did you like to read? 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:40.000 No, there wasn't much time for reading, and I really wasn't much into reading. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.500 Okay. 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:46.899 Learning other ways, but yeah, not reading. 00:16:46.899 --> 00:16:49.960 You were more into mathing. 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.090 No, I just, math because it was easier. 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:53.049 Easier, okay. 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:55.299 You know, it was one thing you could accomplish, so. 00:16:55.299 --> 00:17:12.190 Right, okay, um, well, we've talked a little bit about the house you grew up in. I would like to kind of circle back to that. Um, obviously, if there was at least nine people living there, you probably had to share a room with a lot of siblings, I'm guessing. 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:12.730 Yes. 00:17:12.730 --> 00:17:13.000 Okay. 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.859 Yeah, well, there was a bed in the living room. That was one of the pieces of furniture in the living room. 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:18.670 Was a bed. 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:20.380 Mom and grandma slept in it. 00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:21.450 Oh, my goodness. 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:29.000 Then, generally, I think they put a, at night, put one of the rollaway beds in, in the living room. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:37.970 I don't even see how, in which, I know, you know, probably back then, just probably didn't have as much stuff as what we have these days, of, like, where you'd even put anything with that many people. 00:17:37.970 --> 00:17:47.180 We didn't even really have clothes. There wasn't much stuff. 00:17:47.180 --> 00:17:54.650 Yeah, there just wasn't much stuff. Okay, well, what were meal times like for your family? 00:17:54.650 --> 00:18:04.519 Well, I don't know. My oldest sister got married when I was five. She had her first child by the time, I was an uncle, by the time I was six. 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:05.599 Oh, wow! 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:20.089 My sister, Evelyn, is the one and Grandma Horn, pretty much, took care of me, you know. And then mom was there of an evening, so meals were usually simple, you know. 00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:23.960 But did everybody like sit down at the table, or were you guys kind of scattered? 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:36.049 Well, by the time, you know, meals were a big deal, then, to get one was great. I mean, we didn't go hungry, but I'm just saying, it was a big deal. 00:18:36.049 --> 00:18:37.079 Times were tight. 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:49.049 Yes, and yeah, I think when we're younger, we sit down at the table pretty much in order to get your share. 00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:55.920 So, did you have to help with meals? Did you have to do the cleanup? Did your mom teach you how to cook? 00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.180 I don't remember doing much of the cooking or cleaning when I was younger. 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.099 Is it because you were the baby? 00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:09.279 So others said. Not my opinion, siblings opinion. 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:14.829 Right. Well, do you remember having, like a favorite meal that your mom cooked? 00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:16.569 Probably fried chicken. 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:17.289 Fried chicken. 00:19:17.289 --> 00:19:20.650 We, typically, only got meat on Sundays, 00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:21.880 So, that was a treat. 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:23.230 Oh, yeah. 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:28.750 And then what about did you have any sort of favorite desserts or anything that she fixed? 00:19:28.750 --> 00:19:47.529 Yeah, apricot pie, probably. I like chocolate cake, but it was too sweet. It I did, unfortunately, I grew out of it, but I couldn't eat a lot of sweets when I was young. Well, I mean, I would eat dill pickles with the chocolate cake because I liked it so much, but to kill the sweetness. 00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:48.099 Oh, my goodness. 00:19:48.099 --> 00:19:55.779 So, that sounds really, really weird, but it was, you know, I remember I could only eat, I liked pecan pie, but two bites and I was done. 00:19:55.779 --> 00:20:01.480 So, I know that you're kind of known for cooking. Did you inherit that from your mom, you think? 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:12.380 Well, I think so. I really didn't start cooking a lot until after Ellen and I got married in 1970, so I was 20 years old and stuff. 00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:18.589 And your mom worked in cafes around town, different cafes. Was she known at any I mean? 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:19.130 Oh, yes. 00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:19.789 Okay. 00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:32.029 Yeah, it was, she was one of the real good cooks. Fact is, I don't know whether she invented the recipe, but the recipe for the Lions Club pancake batter. 00:20:32.029 --> 00:20:33.710 I was going to ask you about that. 00:20:33.710 --> 00:20:47.480 Passed from me to her or that's from her to me. But unlike today, I had to apprentice 10 years before she would let me do the pancake batter on my own. 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:49.809 She had to make sure you were worthy. 00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:59.650 Well, and that, yes, that came in handy years later, because we were still doing it at the Highway Cafe, and the Highway Cafe burned. 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:00.210 Okay. 00:21:00.210 --> 00:21:30.420 Well, the recipe was four heaping sifters of flour. Alright, as you know, there's different sized sifters. It turns out, it was probably a three cup sifter, heaping made it four cups. Turns out four cup there's exactly 16 cups of flour and five pounds of flour. So it's basically five pounds of flour and a gallon of milk. But we did, that wasn't the way you put it together from her. 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:32.369 Oh, my goodness! 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:39.240 But I knew enough about the recipe that I could convert it, and so we've still been carrying on with the recipe. 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:53.250 That's cool. That's neat! Stacey had told me to ask you about the Lions pancake recipe and how that, how that came about. So, she worked at the Highway Cafe, and then 00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:58.559 I worked lunches at the Highway Cafe for my lunch in eighth grade. 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.690 So, you worked there to get your lunch? 00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:27.839 Yeah, they fed the students, and I work, fed, I took the students orders and then, then got my lunch for serving the orders for the students. So, the last 15 years or so she worked was at the Highway Cafe. Might have been a little longer than that. Probably the last 20. Before that, she worked for Thelma Groom (ph) at the Harvey House, which is the part of the building where Dr Schafer's office is. 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.450 Okay, okay, at the Harvey House. 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:33.690 His, his office was where Ford Hardware used to be. 00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:57.359 Well, it seems like there was a lot more, so I moved here in the early 80s, and it seems like Bristow has seen a lot of change in from then to now, but it seems like back prior to that, that there was a lot of really neat stores and the places to eat, and 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:04.680 There was a lot of cafes. There wasn't really restaurants. They were, you know, 25 foot wide cafes. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.269 Right. 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:16.160 Yeah, the Highway Cafe was owned by the Bush's, and they owned the locker plant right next door to it. 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:22.970 So, is that where, because my husband's grandpa was Duan Stiner, is that? 00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:23.180 Yes. 00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:23.990 Where he 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:24.470 He bought it. 00:23:24.470 --> 00:23:24.920 Okay. 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.470 He bought it from, he didn't bought it from the Bush's. 00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:29.750 Okay, well, that's interesting. 00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:30.349 Yes. 00:23:30.349 --> 00:23:34.000 Okay, um, let's see. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:48.430 But back in the day, the, we would get a whole hog, and they would grind the sausage. We had fresh sausage for, for pancake breakfast. Where now we use the FFA sausage. 00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:50.349 Right. 00:23:50.349 --> 00:24:01.000 Because we actually moved the date up and before the FFA hogs sale from after the premium sale. 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:02.859 To where you can use the sausage. 00:24:02.859 --> 00:24:04.180 Could buy one and use it. 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:05.289 Oh, well, that's good. 00:24:05.289 --> 00:24:16.890 And after the Highway Cafe went out, the Stubblefields grounded for us for a few years. It's like Jimmy Dean sausage, whole hog! 00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:36.779 Right. Um, well, thinking back to like town life growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities, as like, you know, say, during your school age, probably more like teenage years. Like, I'm thinking like Western Heritage Days, or day camp, parades, county fairs, like, can you tell me about any of that? 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:39.539 Western Heritage Days. I never attended day camp. 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:44.099 Okay, so tell me about Western Heritage Days. What was that like for you? 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.589 Well, it was a big deal. I mean, you know, it was a lot more people in town, and lasted a lot longer. 00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:50.220 Right. 00:24:50.220 --> 00:25:00.150 And it was a big deal even after I moved back and went to work at the bank, you know, there was, it was a lot bigger. 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:01.470 Right. 00:25:01.470 --> 00:25:07.380 Well, and many is there wasn't as many people had air conditioners, so the hot August didn't bother them like it does now. 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:11.519 Right. We're soft now! 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.259 Yeah, exactly! 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:20.930 Okay, um, well, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town that you remember? 00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:25.579 Well, Strong's Hardware had been here for Eddie Strong had Strong's Hardware. 00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:27.559 Okay. 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:40.250 Didn't really walk up and down Main Street a lot. We went to the Holiness Church when I was younger, so we walked all the way down to railroad track and then to church. 00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:45.140 So, was it located at the same location that it is now? Okay. 00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:49.430 Generally, somebody gave us a ride home, but we, typically, walked. 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:59.930 Had to walk there. Okay, I was going to ask if you had a favorite place to eat out, but I'm thinking maybe that didn't happen a lot, or it was your mom cooking for you. 00:25:59.930 --> 00:26:18.079 Well, we didn't eat a lot. Probably, when I'd go to the doctor in Tulsa, we'd sometimes get a hamburger at the, it was over 20 near 21st and Riverside on 21st near Riverside, this big hamburger place. 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.000 I almost think someone else in a recent interview told me about the same place. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.440 Yeah, can't remember what. 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.539 Oh, shoot. 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:33.940 I don't, you know, Burger King was popular back when in when I was younger or not, Burger King, that down on the 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:34.000 Hamburger King? 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:49.329 Hamburger King was popular, but I never ate a hamburger there. And, then, Jack Abraham had there on Fifth Street, where the, basically, the empty lot is next to Shooter Shop. 00:26:49.329 --> 00:26:50.710 Yes. 00:26:50.710 --> 00:27:04.630 Jack Abraham had a diner that served a lot of coffee, you know, that was more my teenage years. But I don't know how long he'd been there. 00:27:04.630 --> 00:27:05.170 Okay. 00:27:05.170 --> 00:27:06.529 But 00:27:06.529 --> 00:27:15.980 Well, did you have any favorite places to hang out as a teenager? Like, say, when you started driving and you were hanging out with your friends. Like, where were some of places you would go? 00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:17.990 Well, we went to Teen Town on Saturday night. 00:27:17.990 --> 00:27:19.309 So, what is teen town? 00:27:19.309 --> 00:27:34.640 It was down there, probably where the empty lot is, is it on Ninth Street, on the north side of the street, across from 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.210 So, where the where the Historical Society's lot is? 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:49.250 Yeah, but it was on past the alley between Historical Society's lot and where the housing is there on Ninth Street, there was a building, Teen Town. 00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:51.000 Teen Town, tell me about that? 00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:07.769 Well, some of the local kids had bands that played in there sometimes, and there was music. Lester Brace's wife was one of the, she was there every time the doors opened, and kind of kept it going, so. 00:28:07.769 --> 00:28:20.670 Well, in all the interviews I've had, no one has mentioned that. I find that odd. So, it was just a place for kids to hang out. And it, and it worked, I guess, there wasn't mischief or? 00:28:20.670 --> 00:28:33.359 Well, I don't remember there being any unusual mischief, because it was Teen Town, but you had to have somebody like Mrs. Brace over it. And there was another lady, but I can't, for whatever reason I can't remember. 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.000 So, so there was actually people like kids bands there that would play? 00:28:38.000 --> 00:29:07.789 Yes, one of the bands, the two Abraham brothers, Jack and Bobby, Mike Bishop and Buddy, Buddy. His dad had the garage there on Fifth. It was before 00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:08.210 Farris? 00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:09.410 Farris, Buddy Farris. 00:29:09.410 --> 00:29:10.579 Okay. 00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:12.680 Yes. 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:13.910 And, so, they had a band? 00:29:13.910 --> 00:29:19.640 They had a band, and they tried to revive it years later. 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:20.779 It didn't work? 00:29:20.779 --> 00:29:42.289 Well, you may want to cut this out. Kattie's mother was a waitress at the old Hamburger King, and The King of Swing. 00:29:42.289 --> 00:29:43.509 Oh, gosh. 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:48.940 Anyway, came through a lot of times. A lot of the big bands and stuff came through because it was on Route 66. 00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.259 Right. 00:29:50.259 --> 00:29:58.029 And, supposedly, on her death bed, she told Kattie that, that he was her father. 00:29:58.029 --> 00:29:58.809 Oh, my goodness! 00:29:58.809 --> 00:30:19.480 And, so, then, Buddy being the grandchild, and then I remember going out to the Elks Lodge when the Abrahams and Buddy, and I don't know whether Mike was in on that group, but they, you know, tried to rekindle their heritage from what they thought was their heritage. 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.000 So, well, that's cool. 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.769 I mean, I don't know that any of that as a fact. The reason I said you might want to cut that out. 00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:36.890 Right, right. No. I mean, that's fine. Um, well, do you remember where you got most of your clothes? Did your did your family make it? Did make your clothes? Did you buy your clothes? 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:40.519 No, most of mine if I remember right were hand me downs. 00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:41.269 Hand me downs. 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:42.470 Yes. 00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:46.000 So, did your older siblings get clothes? Or did someone in your family make those? 00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:01.509 I don't remember. Yeah, I think in the younger days, some of them were made, especially the girls. But you'd wear what was available. Don't really remember much how we got them other than 00:31:01.509 --> 00:31:11.319 You just had them. Okay. Well, do you remember your family's first car, what it was? 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.509 Yes, it's a '54 Chevrolet. 00:31:13.509 --> 00:31:17.529 '54 Chevrolet. Did you ever get to take any vacations or anything in it? 00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:18.670 Oh, no. 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:18.910 No. 00:31:18.910 --> 00:31:25.299 See, mom worked 365 days a year. Was rarely off at all. 00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:27.130 So, she just worked all the time. 00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:27.640 Yes. 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.000 Okay, um, do you remember what your first car was? 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:55.539 A '62 Ford Fairlane. Actually, it was probably the '54 Chevy, but that was driving it messed up the front end of it. And that's when I got to '62 Ford Fairlane. And turns out my brother in law fixed the '54 Chevy, and my sister drove it for 20 years. It was, it was a good car. 00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:56.619 It was a good car. 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:29.170 Well, Bill Shattuck's dad, Mama told him to be looking for her car, and he took us on a test drive, and he said,you'll think this is salesman's talk, but you'll have to, actually have to, probably, if you stop at a stop sign, you'll have to roll down the window to tell if the car is still running. And I remember doing that in front of the Baptist Church at Sixth and Chestnut. Is that old six cylinder was just so quiet. 00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:30.329 It was so quiet. 00:32:30.329 --> 00:32:37.710 Yeah, there wasn't a lot of stuff on it. I mean, back in the day, you can't open the hood. You could see a lot of empty space. 00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:45.029 It was, yeah, right. It was pretty basic. Well, do you remember how you purchased it, or, by chance, how much it cost? 00:32:45.029 --> 00:32:51.750 I don't. I remember my car was $800. 00:32:51.750 --> 00:32:53.460 The Ford, the Ford. 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:53.480 The Ford 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:59.180 Fairlane. And how did you did you have to, I guess, work to make those payemtns? 00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:04.789 I was working at Champlin's (ph) so I made the payments, and it was forth-some-dollars a month. 00:33:04.789 --> 00:33:09.000 That's crazy. And then you look at what cars cost now, and it's like, oh my goodness. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:26.880 Well, and then when Ellen I got married, I remember buying a second car. We bought a '61 Chevy, big, biggerChevy. It wasn't an Empala, but it was the next one down, and we gave $100 for it and drove it, like, four or five years. 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.230 Oh, my gosh! 00:33:28.230 --> 00:33:31.500 So, yeah, it was a fine car. 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:33.000 Uh yeah, it sounds like it! 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:41.940 Until we bought a '67 Toyota and and that replaced the Ford Fairlane. 00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:44.170 So, you went with a foreign car, huh? 00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:59.289 Well, it was, it was a good car, good mileage, and, basically, it was built just like the old 50s Chevy underneath. I knew that from servicing so many vehicles down at Champlin, so 00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:02.769 Do you remember who taught you how to drive? 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:26.920 I don't. I remember when granddad passed away, of course, I was 14, and we had his, we inherited his old pickup, but the battery was bad, so we kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down and start it. And I took mom to work in in that until we bought the '54 Chevy. 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.710 And did you do that before you were actually able to drive? 00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.619 I was 14. 00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:45.840 And the police met us at the, well, they met her at the Highway Cafe every morning to open up. And, you know, I was nervous they was gonna find out about me. I'm sure they knew! 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:55.289 They probably did know. So did you guys, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you have a TV or? 00:34:55.289 --> 00:35:06.269 No, I bought the first TV from somebody that came by when, when I was at Champlin, so that would have been '66. 00:35:06.269 --> 00:35:11.289 Oh, man, um, and that was for your family or for 00:35:11.289 --> 00:35:13.539 Everybody was out of the house, basically but me. 00:35:13.539 --> 00:35:14.289 But you. 00:35:14.289 --> 00:35:14.869 Yes. 00:35:14.869 --> 00:35:25.550 And you bought it? So, do you remember any of your favorite programs that you watched on it? Anything stick out to you? 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:31.519 Again, I wasn't there that much, so there wasn't a lot of wasn't a lot of time TV watching. 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:41.570 Right, right. Um. So, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you guys have a family doctor? Did you usually just try to handle stuff at home or? 00:35:41.570 --> 00:35:48.719 We had a family doctor, but mostly, if we had something, we went to Dr. Czeskleba (Clayton Czeskleba) in Tulsa. 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.639 Czeskleba. 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:50.480 Yes. 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.090 Do you know how to spell that? 00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:54.139 Cz something. 00:35:54.139 --> 00:35:57.320 Okay. 00:35:57.320 --> 00:35:57.829 He was at 00:35:57.829 --> 00:35:59.000 So, you went all the way to Tulsa? 00:35:59.000 --> 00:35:59.260 Oh, wow. Okay. 00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:05.809 He was at the Sisler Clinic, yeah, yes. 00:36:05.809 --> 00:36:16.250 I had a major medical emergency when I was three. I fell off of the gate and shattered my hip. 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:17.449 Oh, my goodness! 00:36:17.449 --> 00:36:22.369 And they wouldn't take me at the Sisler Clinic. 00:36:22.369 --> 00:36:24.170 Because it was too serious? 00:36:24.170 --> 00:36:28.369 Well, we didn't have any money. I don't know why, why. I mean at three I don't know why. 00:36:28.369 --> 00:36:29.119 Yeah, okay. 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:42.170 But the county commissioner took me in his car to the Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City, and I was in there and in traction for six or eight weeks. 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:48.039 And as a three-year-old, that had to have been horrible. Do you have much memory of it? 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:57.869 No, the only memories I had, there was two nurses, white nurse was mean and snake, and there was a black nurse that was my angel. 00:36:57.869 --> 00:37:06.989 Oh, that would have been, I mean, that had to have been hard on you and your family to have to be away for so long, too. 00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:07.570 Oh, yeah. 00:37:07.570 --> 00:37:12.280 Did you, so did your, if your mom had to work all the time, who stayed with you at the hospital? 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.079 Uh, probably nobody. 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:14.980 Are you serious? 00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:18.070 Um, I don't remember, but probably nobody, yeah. 00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:22.280 Oh, my goodness! So, then did you have to have follow ups after that I'm guessing? 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:41.320 Yeah, she would, I don't remember exactly what was a follow up or my dad was institutionalized before I was born. He had his last mental breakdown before I was born. So, I remember going on the train, just vaguely, we would go to Shawnee, and she had a cousin down there that had family wealth, only family people in my family that ever had any kind of wealth. 00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:43.659 Right. 00:37:43.659 --> 00:38:11.019 And one of the memories when I, you know, 3, 4, 5-years-old, was getting store bought donuts and dunking them in coffee at his house. So that was 00:38:11.019 --> 00:38:15.000 That's one of those core memories that sticks out to you, because that was a big deal, I'm guessing. 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:30.599 Yes, yeah, it was really a big deal. Mom made the cinnamon rolls and stuff. She was famous for, and donuts. I need to make my grandkids some donuts, because I've never made them the donuts out of the cinnamon roll dough. Well, but I've made a few cinnamon rolls. 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:36.369 You've made a few cinnamon rolls. Well, if you ever need anybody to try one, I'm game. 00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:43.780 Well, you need, you need to be available on Christmas. I usually do have about 16 or 18 batches. 00:38:43.780 --> 00:38:44.840 Oh my gosh! 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.920 Including the ones, sometimes, for the bank open house, so. 00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:52.010 Okay, well, I'm going to mark that on the calendar, though. 00:38:52.010 --> 00:38:54.039 But you need to come and get it fresh, because that's when it's best. 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:59.280 Right out the oven. Um, well, I was going to ask if you had any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything like that that you remember growing up, but obviously breaking, shattering your hip was pretty major. Can you think of anything else that was rough on you or your family during growing up? 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:26.070 Not a lot. I got sick every few months, the you know, and kind of grew out of that. I don't know what caused it. 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:27.420 Sick, like, how? 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:32.940 Sick at my stomach, and be real, really, really sick for a day or two, and then 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:39.000 Then you'd be okay. So, what made you guys end up traveling to Tulsa to see the doctor that I can't say his name? 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:47.159 Well, Czeskleba, he was the doctor at the clinic here. 00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.230 But you would go to Tulsa to see him? 00:39:49.230 --> 00:39:53.130 Yeah. Probably wasn't a lot of doctors here. 00:39:53.130 --> 00:40:12.300 Right. And, so, that's who you remember seeing. Um, so then you you mentioned that growing up, you attended the Holiness Church. Do you have much memory of like, what a service was like, or maybe what was your favorite part of church? 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:27.030 Well, I think we traveled with others. They had youth nights. You know, you'd go to other churches like Burnett Wick Mission (ph) and Highway Mission and Paden, and a few churches around here. 00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:28.500 Okay. 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:31.500 And they had the camp meeting out here, north of town. 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:32.190 Right. 00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:36.690 That was always a big, big deal where 00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:38.820 So, a lot of that's been going on for a long time then. 00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:43.949 Mm-hmm, well, but you know, it used to be the different location than it is now. 00:40:43.949 --> 00:41:01.889 Right, right. Um, so what were holidays like with with your family, for instance, tell me, what a typical Christmas was like for your family when you were younger? Do you remember? 00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:07.860 Yeah, it would evolve around food. Mom made sure we had food, and, usually, a big spread, and 00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:08.550 That was the big 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:09.000 Multiple desserts. 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:09.119 No, gifts were not 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:17.610 Right. So, was there very many gifts? Or did you guys make each other things? 00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:21.369 It was mainly around the food. 00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:55.659 One of the things that my sister got me, the only gift that I remember, and she was mad at me till she passed, is she got me some underwear that had the heroes, you know, the comic book heroes, and I was so proud of them. So, when Connie came over, her to be husband came over, the first time I had to show him my underwear. Embarrassed her to death. 00:41:55.659 --> 00:42:04.329 That's great. What were those called, like Underoos or something, maybe? 00:42:04.329 --> 00:42:08.139 That was 70 years ago. It was before Underoos. 00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:09.070 Oh, that's funny! 00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:14.590 Really wasn't that many pairs of underwears that had anything other than white. 00:42:14.590 --> 00:42:16.170 White, right. 00:42:16.170 --> 00:42:17.789 That's why they called them tighty whities. 00:42:17.789 --> 00:42:26.099 Tighty whities. Okay, well, do you remember celebrating were, were any other holidays in your family a big deal, aside from Christmas and Thanksgiving? 00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.420 Thanksgiving? Yeah. 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:27.780 Okay. 00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:31.000 And seems like Easter was a big deal. 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:42.909 Um, do you remember as a child ever thinking about what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:42:42.909 --> 00:42:46.869 No, I really didn't spend even when I went off to college, I didn't. 00:42:46.869 --> 00:42:52.179 You still didn't know. So, even when you were little, you didn't think, oh, I want to be a veterinarian? 00:42:52.179 --> 00:42:53.000 No, never, any of that. 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:57.590 Never thought of that. And you still didn't know what you wanted to do, even when you were in college? 00:42:57.590 --> 00:43:00.590 Yeah, I really didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it, you know,. 00:43:00.590 --> 00:43:02.840 So, what did you go to college for? 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:58.010 Well, I ended up getting personnel management was what I got my degree. They changed my degree five times while I was there. Of course, I was there for two years, and then Ellen and I got married, and I went the spring semester, and then I finished up in two years. So, took a total of five years to get through there. But my degree ended up being in organizational analysis, which was a systems approach to personnel management. And I was in college, I ran like the [indecipherable] the computer stuff was just coming out. I ran, like the you went in, wrote your programs and put them on punch cards, and then put that the punch cards ran through to build your program, so. 00:43:58.010 --> 00:43:58.489 Wow! 00:43:58.489 --> 00:43:59.809 So, wow, yeah! 00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:18.900 Wow! And it's funny talking to you that I think Stacey inherited, Stacey is a lot like you, isn't she, in her the way she thinks. She's like my Excel spreadsheet go-to person when I need help with math or Excel or anything like that, she always helps me. 00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:38.250 Well, it was kind of interesting. Didn't really talk about family history and dad's issues, other than mom took us to see him when she could, until around 1985 when we was in the 80 in her early 80s, she talked about it. 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:39.480 So, you didn't know? 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.219 I didn't know a lot. I mean 00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:44.130 Is that something you want to talk about in this interview, I mean? 00:44:44.130 --> 00:44:45.030 It doesn't matter. 00:44:45.030 --> 00:44:45.510 Okay. 00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:48.219 It's, you know, I've talked about a lot more lately. 00:44:48.219 --> 00:44:52.679 Right. So, what so, feel free to tell me about that. 00:44:52.679 --> 00:45:21.510 Well, then when he passed, my aunt brought the, she had the tickets for when they sold out, they had $2,500 peanut crop and $2,800 worth of sales on their farm equipment, or vice versa. In '47 is when they sold out. So that's what mom used to buy the house with her portion of it. 00:45:21.510 --> 00:45:26.909 And, so, was your dad just not around for the time that you grew up? 00:45:26.909 --> 00:45:36.210 Yeah, he was institutionalized. He was a ward of the state. He was, he had a mental breakdown and ran off to California, and they brought him back. 00:45:36.210 --> 00:45:38.969 And, so, he wasn't around at all when you grew up? 00:45:38.969 --> 00:45:39.000 Not at all. 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.780 So, it was your mom and your sisters then. 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:42.989 Right. 00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:45.269 And grandma that that helped to raise you. 00:45:45.269 --> 00:45:45.929 Right. 00:45:45.929 --> 00:45:51.000 And so did you it? You said it wasn't until later on that you actually would go and see him or visit him? 00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:00.119 No, we went to see him multiple times. I mean, once or twice a year. But, that was about all, you know, because he was typically 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.000 Did you understand that as a kid, or was that confusing for you? 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:12.780 I, you know, one of the things that I always felt grateful for is I never felt like I missed anything. 00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:14.940 Right, right. 00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.579 You know, it was just, it's just the way it was. 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:26.159 Well, I think, you know, it's when that's how you grow up and you don't really have anything to compare it to,that was your normal. 00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:27.449 Right. 00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:34.000 And, so, did it ever get to where you had much of a relationship with him as you, as time went on? 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:49.480 No, that history, they moved him a couple of times without even notifying where they moved him to. And one year, one time, they moved him out to Elk City or somewhere, and it took a year for mom to locate him. 00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.219 Are you serious? 00:46:51.219 --> 00:47:06.699 But, then, in the 80s, or late 80s, or whatever, I got a call in the middle of night, and they said, I need your permission to do surgery on your dad. 00:47:06.699 --> 00:47:09.000 So, you would have been in your 30s? 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:09.840 Yes. 00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:10.440 Okay. 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:58.349 And, well, I might have been older than that. Yeah, would have been in my late 30s. And I said, well, you've never even asked before, but yeah, go ahead and do surgery. Well, just so happened, I had a relationship with Dale Dickens, who worked for DHS. This was back for before you had to have all the paperwork to, you know, he came in if somebody applied for DHS, he came in to get their bank information. Anyway, I called him and asked him what my options were, and he said, well, if they'll take him down here at the nursing home, just when they check him out of the hospital in Ada, have the ambulance bring him here, and then we'll do the paperwork. So, we got him up here to Bristow at that point, and 00:47:58.349 --> 00:48:00.090 So, he went to Rainbow or? 00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:00.539 Yes. 00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:01.000 Okay. 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:35.500 And as luck would have it, my father in law's significant other, Bonita Bishop, was over the head of nursing at Rainbow. And she said, yeah, well, we can handle it. So, we had him up here until then. He knew all of his brothers and sisters names, but he didn't know any of the children by face, even though we went to see him. The best way I could describe it, he knew me as somebody he knew he should know. That sounds like double talk. 00:48:35.500 --> 00:48:43.960 No, no, I get what you're saying. You were familiar to him, but he didn't really know why you were familiar to him. 00:48:43.960 --> 00:49:12.809 An additional piece of history came from Goldie Stice, was a nurse, and she went down and gave him shots, and he could name all seven of his children. And, so, that's how we learned that from him. We had very little. I mean, even when you asked him questions, it was usually about two questions, and you got no more responses when they're there. 00:49:12.809 --> 00:49:14.909 Do you mind if I ask what, like, what was his diagnosis, or what what was? 00:49:14.909 --> 00:49:15.840 Well, mental health was not good diagnosis. 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:15.929 Right. 00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:16.110 The only 00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:21.570 So, in later years was it more like dementia that was maybe? 00:49:21.570 --> 00:49:24.239 No. 00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:29.610 It wasn't that. 00:49:29.610 --> 00:49:52.530 When he got up here, Vanita said, well, he's over medicated. Well, it turns out they've only given him, in a quarter, quarter of an adult doses of medication. But, it, it caused him the ticks like the other over medicated, where people over medicate themselves, but he got to where he could play dominoes and keep score. 00:49:52.530 --> 00:49:56.000 So, do you feel like he got maybe a little better when he came to Bristow? 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:56.780 Yes, definitely. 00:49:56.780 --> 00:49:57.719 Clearer, maybe? 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:35.309 Well, clearer, just none of the that 40 years in there was gone, basically. But he could still if his brothers and sisters came to see him, he knew them. Of course, they were adults. When, you know, he had a an internist, it one of the medical deals that he went to. He had an internist that said he's had three major traumas to the brain, and that any one of them could have caused this. Well, he was a surveyor for the government and had a heat stroke out in the corn field. 00:50:35.309 --> 00:50:36.840 Oh, my gosh! 00:50:36.840 --> 00:51:18.329 That one of the other ones, he fell off the tractor and hit his head on the plow that we knew about. And the third one was back in the day. The hay baling equipment was stationary, so you pitch forked it in, and the pitchfork hit the belt came back and hit him in the head. So, that would account for the three major traumas, but that's the sum of what we know. We took him over to Creoks once and Creoks, when he walked across the room, said he's schizophrenic. Well, if you know anything about schizophrenia, it doesn't manifest itself. He may have very well been schizophrenic, but it doesn't manifest itself outwardly, typically, 00:51:18.329 --> 00:51:30.389 Right. So, so remind me then, now that I have a little more history, at what age so was he never at home for or like at what age do you ever remember him being at home? 00:51:30.389 --> 00:51:36.150 No, he was institutionalized by the April of 1950 before that, probably late. 00:51:36.150 --> 00:51:37.800 And you were born in '50? 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:39.719 Probably late '49. 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:49.769 So, you never had him. You never had him. Oh, my gosh. So, I bet that was, like, extremely hard on your mother too, trying to raise a family, a big family. 00:51:49.769 --> 00:52:26.000 Well, it was. And some of his family, not all, but some of his family blamed her for it. But the one part of the story that doesn't get told often, and it may cause, but the judge, when he was going to make him a ward of the state, asked him, Mr. Barnett, what do you think? And he said, I don't know, this woman's been beside me.Whatever she decides, I need. It's the way it will be. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:30.380 And, so, was it her decision then? 00:52:30.380 --> 00:52:37.639 Well, they concurred, but I'm just saying, they had that much belief in each other. 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:42.500 Right, and you don't feel like maybe that was expressed enough to the other side of the family? 00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:44.360 Oh, I don't think it was ever expressed. 00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:45.409 Right. 00:52:45.409 --> 00:53:09.630 In later years, some of the other cousins started a family reunion, and, you know, we had great family reunions with the family. But, I mean, but, or in those early years, other than my Uncle Herbert, dad's brother, I don't ever recall any of the other family coming to see her. 00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:18.570 Right, right. So, do you feel like, then, it was a good thing that you were able to get him back here for his, I'm guessing, did he pass away at Rainbow? 00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:23.340 Well, mom is already in the nursing home at that point. So, yes, it was a good thing for both. 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:25.050 Oh, so they were together? 00:53:25.050 --> 00:53:30.780 Well, they weren't in the same room, but they was together, and she could check on him everyday. So yes, it was 00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:32.760 So, they were, basically, reunited then? 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:33.360 That's correct. 00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:43.409 Well, that's good. That's good. Um, that was a long, a long journey, though, to get there. Yeah, and so did they both pass away at Rainbow? 00:53:43.409 --> 00:54:02.610 Yes, she passed away first, and then he had, probably, four or five, what I call panic attacks, and I would go down and take him to the hospital, and by the time the doctor got there, but I mean, like I said, when I said he's somebody, he knew he should know. 00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:03.420 Right. 00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:12.539 By the time the doctor got there, the panic attack would be over, and he, you know, the diagnosis always well, he's got good 00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:13.320 He's fine. 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.929 Vitals for person his age. 00:54:15.929 --> 00:54:21.510 Right. Well, it probably was, and then you being there probably comforted him. 00:54:21.510 --> 00:54:22.000 Yeah. 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:34.869 Um, was there any other parts of that story that you want to share? Because that wasn't anything that you know, I really knew to ask about, but that's, it sounds like a, obviously, a very important part of your history. 00:54:34.869 --> 00:55:18.230 Well, I don't know how much, yeah, one of those times we took him out there, there was young, well, not young, but the lady intern doctor that looked after him and, and she said, she's asking me, said, well, you know, some questions. And I said, I don't know. You know, kind of like when they moved him up here they were, what kind of foods he like? I said, I don't know, other than hamburgers, because we always took him to get a hamburger. He would eat a hamburger, but she asked him, you know, because he could answer some questions, what day it was and all that. She looked at me like, fine son you are to care much about your dad. 00:55:18.230 --> 00:55:20.179 But you didn't know, because he wasn't there. 00:55:20.179 --> 00:55:29.599 Well, but then she asked him, so Mr. Barnett, who's this guy? And he said, I don't know. And she could have crawled under that gurney. 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:30.769 Then she realized. 00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:38.090 Well, I don't know she ever realized, but she, she kind of got part of the story that he had no clue who I was. 00:55:38.090 --> 00:55:39.900 Right, right. 00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:44.000 And I didn't know that much about him, other than I looked after him, so. 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:53.000 So, was that tough on you to go back and take care of him in later, later life, when he wasn't somebody that, you know, had ever been in your life? 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:54.469 No, really wasn't. 00:55:54.469 --> 00:55:56.510 Or do you feel like that helped you? 00:55:56.510 --> 00:56:00.559 Well, I don't. I can't say either one. 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.000 Just something you felt you needed to do? 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:02.389 Okay. It's kind of one of those things that when he passed, there was not a big loss. And the thing that I gained from that is, if you know, if you ever lose somebody, and you feel a big loss, then be grateful. 00:56:02.389 --> 00:56:21.500 Right. 00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:25.130 That's a good point. That's a really good point. Yeah. 00:56:25.130 --> 00:56:29.659 Is, you know, that you had a relationship that causes you 00:56:29.659 --> 00:56:30.920 To feel the loss. 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:31.670 Yes. 00:56:31.670 --> 00:56:46.789 Yes, I understand. Well, well, is it alright if we circle back a little bit to your college life? Because we, we kind of skipped past that a little bit, too. Um, so you decided to go to OSU? 00:56:46.789 --> 00:56:47.119 Yes. 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:54.440 That took about five years, you said, to get, get through that. Um, did you enjoy your experience at OSU? 00:56:54.440 --> 00:57:01.980 Yeah, I attended as many athletic events as I could. You know, of course, back then, it came with the you didn't have to pay extra, 00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:02.000 Right, right. 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.369 It was a freebie. 00:57:04.369 --> 00:57:05.750 Yeah, right. 00:57:05.750 --> 00:57:10.670 And they even had freshmen football, so the freshmen weren't on the team, so. 00:57:10.670 --> 00:57:14.460 Oh! So you enjoyed your experience there then? 00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:25.550 Yes, I worked at a Champlain Station up there for the first or second year. I worked, you know, from four to midnight and then 00:57:25.550 --> 00:57:29.900 So, did you pay for your college? Or did you have scholarships or? 00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:46.579 Well, I got a scholarship from eighth grade. I think it was history teacher. I can't remember the name of that, but it was $100 scholarship. 00:57:46.579 --> 00:57:48.110 Oh, my gosh! 00:57:48.110 --> 00:58:04.340 But then I had, in generally, I paid for my own scholarship, or I had two thousand dollar student loans when I got out. 00:58:04.340 --> 00:58:05.059 That you had to pay. 00:58:05.059 --> 00:58:10.460 So, you know, basically the extra I paid for everything besides the $1,000. 00:58:10.460 --> 00:58:26.840 Right. Okay, well, and then whenever we had visited on the phone, I didn't realize that you, you know, I know you as somebody that's always been at Community Bank. I didn't realize, I didn't realize you had, like, an oil field business. So, can you tell us about that? 00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:33.829 Okay, yeah. Do you want to go back with all my other jobs first? Or you want to go straight to the oil business? 00:58:33.829 --> 00:58:38.690 You just, you just tell us, you can start from, from all your jobs if you want to. 00:58:38.690 --> 00:58:48.000 Well, I worked down there during the winter I worked, but then the summer, I worked for the Turnpike Authority. 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.409 Where they was resurfacing a quarter of each of the Turner Turnpike. And, the first two summers I worked in the scale house, weighing out trucks for the Turnpike Authority, and then the summer, the fall, but when we got married, I worked on the maintenance crew until December, I mean, [indecipherable]. And then in the spring, I went to work and I laid carpet with Mr. McKay. I went to school, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we laid carpet Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And that was about the time the carpet mill went out. So, there was people that bought a lot of there was some three different colors of shag carpet. 00:58:48.409 --> 00:59:44.639 Okay. 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:46.110 And you installed a lot of it? 00:59:46.110 --> 00:59:49.349 Beige, two-tone pink and lime green. 00:59:49.349 --> 00:59:51.570 Oh, my goodness! Oh, my goodness! 00:59:51.570 --> 01:00:03.059 So yes, and then, but I went back, and then I worked for Cummings Construction then still 01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:04.230 Still on the Turnpike? 01:00:04.230 --> 01:00:11.150 Yeah. And then the summer after I graduated from college, I actually drove a lay down machine on the turnpike resurfacing. 01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:14.960 Oh, you have you're jack of all trades, then, aren't you? 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:15.409 Well 01:00:15.409 --> 01:00:22.000 You can do a little bit of everything. But didn't you say that was it Mrs. Foster that called you? 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:34.690 Well, yes. And then that fall, I interviewed with UPS and out of 60 applicants, I got the UPS job out of Stillwater, so. 01:00:34.690 --> 01:00:35.739 Driving a truck? 01:00:35.739 --> 01:00:57.639 Driving a UPS truck. We actually, you the trailer came in when you got to work, you loaded your package car. I averaged 65 stops in 160 miles a day, and then you came in and always washed your package car in eight hours. Well 01:00:57.639 --> 01:00:58.539 Oh, my goodness! 01:00:58.539 --> 01:01:05.230 Well, sometimes you had a little more than eight hours, but it, you know, generally that was 01:01:05.230 --> 01:01:06.579 That was a heck of a work day! 01:01:06.579 --> 01:01:07.570 You was moving. 01:01:07.570 --> 01:01:13.570 Yeah. And you only, you said you worked there about a year? 01:01:13.570 --> 01:01:46.179 Almost, well, and then about May of '74 I got a call from Arthur Foster, and he said, Lewis and I are getting older, and we need to add a trainee down here. And I was talking to Carolyn, and Carolyn said, what about that David Barnett? He ought to be out of school by now. So said, would you be interested in coming down and talking to us? So, I came down and talked to him, and, basically, took a 50% pay cut from UPS to go to work at the bank. 01:01:46.179 --> 01:01:47.199 Oh, gosh! 01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:54.099 I did get a raise within the first couple of months, but don't ever regret that. 01:01:54.099 --> 01:01:54.909 Right. 01:01:54.909 --> 01:02:08.679 And then I worked there from '74 till 1980 and got out. My brothers had started a oil field service business, and 01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:11.150 And you said that was called Barnett Operations? 01:02:11.150 --> 01:02:46.010 Barnertt Operating, yeah. They had under that Barnett Power Tongs. And then they had, they bought out a cement and acidizing company and, and had a pump truck, and then we built two pump trucks, or had one built and built another one. So, we had three, three pump trucks and all related equipment. And by April of 1982 we had 52 employees. 01:02:46.010 --> 01:02:47.719 That's quite a 01:02:47.719 --> 01:03:34.880 So, yeah, and then then Penn Square (ph) happened, and oilfield started south, and we couldn't pay off people. When we was down, by early '85, it was down to 14 employees, and so Doy Holderfield, one of the partners, took over the operation, and I went back to work for the bank. When I left the bank, I was cashier in marketing, and they split that out while I was gone. They had two people, both of them left, and I got my old job back which was both of their jobs. 01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:36.000 Which was both of theirs. 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:36.050 Well, that is quite a, I don't know, going from oil field type management to, you know, back to the bank. That's, did you have a preference of, did you like one better than the other? Or was there they're just different, or? 01:03:36.050 --> 01:03:54.630 Yes. 01:03:54.630 --> 01:03:58.590 They were just different, the highs were higher and the lows were lower in the oil field. 01:03:58.590 --> 01:04:12.210 In the oil field. I bet, I bet. And, so, then he went back to the bank, so tell me about the bank, since that's definitely kind of a Bristow icon. Tell me about your time at the bank and what that was like. 01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:40.110 Well, I became cashier, and then I was trained to be a loan officer, and and the cashier left that was there and, and I took the cashier position back, because cashiers were harder to find than loan officers so, so I was actually a cashier with three different times. 01:04:40.110 --> 01:04:43.079 And you were there a total of 30 years? Is that right? 01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.880 Yes, I was there from '85 until the end of '20. 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:46.000 So, you saw a lot of changes during that time. 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:58.119 Yes, well, you stop and think, when I came there the first time in 1974 the bank was 50 years old, and I thought it was had been there forever. 01:04:58.119 --> 01:04:59.349 Forever. 01:04:59.349 --> 01:05:04.320 And so now, they are getting ready October 4th to celebrate their 100th birthday. 01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:35.960 And I was fortunate enough back in May to interview Mr. Krumme before he passed away. And that was such an honor, because I've never met him, I, you know. And he was such a, just a, just a neat person, you know, and so full of he, my gosh, he's lived through so much life and had so much to talk about. It was a really I was I felt very honored that I got to talk to him before he passed away. So, did you have much involvement with Mr. Krumme over the years? 01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:54.000 Well, just he was on the board, and then the last 10 or 15 years, I was on the board, so I served with him. And, you know, he had a nice sense humor, and wisdom, as you found out. 01:05:54.000 --> 01:06:08.039 Yes, yes. And can could recall dates, unlike any, I mean, I've kind of joked with him, and I said, I have the time. I can't remember how old I am, and you're rattling off dates like, I mean, he's just so was so sharp. 01:06:08.039 --> 01:07:20.070 Well, I have a couple of stories that he told at board meeting that you're free to cut out if you want to. They're not bad. But, one of them was talking about a number of people had purchased stock of the old Williams Company at 20 some dollars when they split out and did Williams Communication. And then it went down to less than $1 and, and, and then he was telling the story that he had bought back, well, it's actually more than that. But anyway, he had bought back some shares of Williams Company when it and when it went below $1 and then at that time it was back up to $25. So, there was an old television commercial, it was when E.F. Hutton talks, people listen. So, all the board members kind of leaned up listening. He said, you know, there's another company out there just like that today, and everybody's just listening intently. He said, If we only knew who it was! 01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:21.530 That's funny! 01:07:21.530 --> 01:07:30.679 Well, and then you put it with the E.F. Hutton commerical that for years when E. F. Hutton talks, people listen. We was exactly that! 01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:33.050 Oh, I bet that was funny! 01:07:33.050 --> 01:07:50.000 Funny to me. And the other one is that it was, you know, he was about 90 at the time. He said, beware of a man that tells you that he runs things in his family, because if he, if he says that, he'll lie to you about other stuff too. 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:57.079 Yeah, that's a good one, too. 01:07:57.079 --> 01:07:59.840 Beautiful thing about stories that they were so simple. 01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:00.619 Yes! 01:08:00.619 --> 01:08:03.829 But, you know, the I love the logic. 01:08:03.829 --> 01:08:28.699 Tes, oh, absolutely! And, and he just, I think the thing that I got from him, the the little bit that I got to talk to him, was just just such a kind gentleman. I mean, he was just such a, and just because I was kind of nervous to visit with him and, but absolutely put you at ease. And just a regular, just a regular guy. 01:08:28.699 --> 01:08:38.300 Oh yes. Well, he'd seen and done so much as I told you, you know, the state Democratic headquarters is the George Krumme building. 01:08:38.300 --> 01:08:39.409 Yeah, yeah. 01:08:39.409 --> 01:08:41.810 You know, so it's not like he was 01:08:41.810 --> 01:08:52.640 Well, I saw during the DNC that he was acknowledged. You know, so, I mean, you you have to be somebody to to be to be acknowledged on that stage. 01:08:52.640 --> 01:09:04.550 The DNC and the Democratic National he was kind of like Dorcas Kelly was acknowledged. Dorcas Kelly was from Bristow, and she was well known and international circle, too, in the Republican side. 01:09:04.550 --> 01:09:18.949 Right. Okay, so back on, back on the bank, is there, do you miss it? I mean, do you were there a long time. Like people don't it doesn't seem like people really stay with companies that long anymore. 01:09:18.949 --> 01:09:24.409 No, I don't say I miss it, because I still have a lot of banking to do. 01:09:24.409 --> 01:09:25.100 Right, right. 01:09:25.100 --> 01:09:27.840 And a lot of friendships there. 01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:29.939 Right. 01:09:29.939 --> 01:09:39.000 You know, still connected. I still have the minority ownership in the bank, so it keeps me connected. 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:39.859 Not completely out of it. And while I was there, I got to serve for a year or two on the other bank boards that the Sooner Southwest is the ownership now, and they own. 01:09:39.859 --> 01:09:54.420 So, you're not completely out of there. 01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.720 That's what he had mentioned. 01:09:55.720 --> 01:10:13.600 Yeah, they own three other banks. So, but I've got to serve on Security First National in Hugo, and so developed a good relationship with the people there. And then the same way with First National in Heavner and Poteau, so. 01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:22.989 And then I think, haven't you served on some other boards in town? Was it the, oh no, I've lost. 01:10:22.989 --> 01:10:39.369 I was chairman of the United Way, is probably still United Fund at that point, and chairman of their, president of the Bristow Chamber. Both of those within a year after I came back to the bank. 01:10:39.369 --> 01:10:41.000 And then on some other authority, weren't you? 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:44.180 I've been on the Park Board since 1985. 01:10:44.180 --> 01:10:57.890 Okay, maybe that's what it was that Stacey had mentioned. Okay, so you're, it's obvious that you're very community involved, and especially like through church. Which you attend First Church of God now? Right? 01:10:57.890 --> 01:10:58.220 Correct. 01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:01.189 And how long have you been, how long have you been there? 01:11:01.189 --> 01:11:03.000 Basically, since it came in '74. 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.680 Since you came, oh, wow. So, you've been there a long time. 01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.229 We were married in the Nazarene Church. 01:11:10.229 --> 01:11:28.050 I know you'd mentioned, and, and while we're, we can't get out of this without talking about your family, because I know your family is a super important to you. So, can you tell me what your spouse's full name is, and where did you meet her? 01:11:28.050 --> 01:11:33.210 Ellen Louise Propst [Barnett] and met her at school. 01:11:33.210 --> 01:11:34.079 At OSU? 01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:34.890 No at Bristow. 01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:37.039 Oh at Bristow. Okay. 01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:55.880 Her dad was Noel Propst, who had the service stations here. He had the Phillips down where Subway was, and then around 1970 he bought the station down where the donut shop is, and he had it until he closed it. 01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:57.350 That's the one that I remember. 01:11:57.350 --> 01:11:58.189 Yeah. 01:11:58.189 --> 01:12:01.850 So, what was your first impression of her when you first met her? 01:12:01.850 --> 01:12:03.109 That she was shy. 01:12:03.109 --> 01:12:04.220 That she was shy? 01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:05.329 Yes. 01:12:05.329 --> 01:12:08.329 Did you have to work to get her attention? 01:12:08.329 --> 01:12:10.399 No, I think she spotted me first. 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:12.350 Oh, is that how it was? 01:12:12.350 --> 01:12:38.180 Yeah, she tells a story of her dad had an old Jeep, and she, she and one of her cousins came to get fuel in the jeep so she could an get up close. Turns out, none of us could find the gas tank in the Jeep, and it embarrassed her to death. Well, I don't know anything about it, obviously. 01:12:38.180 --> 01:12:45.109 Oh, that's funny. So, did you have, like, a long engagement? Did you have a 01:12:45.109 --> 01:12:55.220 Two, two plus years. I mean, it was, we was not engaged, but we went together for, yeah, by the time I went to OSU. 01:12:55.220 --> 01:12:56.539 Did she go to OSU also? 01:12:56.539 --> 01:12:57.409 She went for a year. 01:12:57.409 --> 01:12:58.159 Went for a year. 01:12:58.159 --> 01:12:59.810 The second year I was there. 01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:00.140 Okay. 01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:03.869 And then we got married in August of that of '70. 01:13:03.869 --> 01:13:06.750 So, August, what was the date? August? 01:13:06.750 --> 01:13:07.500 August 22nd. 01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:07.920 Okay. 01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:08.000 You kinda tricked me. 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:15.920 I'm going to get you in trouble, aren't I? Um, so what was your did you have just like a normal wedding, or did,? 01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:16.000 Yeah. 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.220 And it was at the Nazarene church? 01:13:18.220 --> 01:13:22.630 Right. And it was a day that was one of the hottest days of the year. 01:13:22.630 --> 01:13:23.470 Oh, gosh! 01:13:23.470 --> 01:13:27.819 Well, it rained that morning and it was only 88 but it felt like 120. 01:13:27.819 --> 01:13:30.279 So, it was probably 120% humidity. 01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:35.229 Yes, yes, and no air conditioning. 01:13:35.229 --> 01:13:38.680 Oh, my goodness! I didn't even think about that. 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:48.189 And she just tells a story that one of the ladies after the deal said, well, honey, there was a fan down in the nursery you could have had when you were getting ready. 01:13:48.189 --> 01:13:50.739 Oh, my gosh! So, you guys were probably about to die then? 01:13:50.739 --> 01:13:59.930 Well, yeah, well, I went to Stillwater and got my hair cut that morning, and so got the old fashioned razor cut. Lookin' good! 01:13:59.930 --> 01:14:01.000 You were ready to go, weren't ya? 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.960 Yeah, well, that was about all that was ready to go. 01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:12.100 Well, so can you tell me, like, what your early years of marriage was like? Was it? Tell me about it. 01:14:12.100 --> 01:14:14.350 Just enjoyable. I mean, you know. 01:14:14.350 --> 01:14:16.960 Did you struggle? Was it? 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:35.199 Yeah, wasn't any, you know, I, like I said, I worked on the turnpike maintenance, and she didn't work that fall, and then worked on laying carpet, you know. So, we didn't have a lot. 01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:36.039 Didn't have a lot? 01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:36.979 Didn't know we didn't have a lot. 01:14:36.979 --> 01:14:37.840 But I think sometimes in the beginning, like that, when you don't know any different, I mean, it's, it's just how it is, and it's, I don't know, you're figuring it all out and having fun, you know? 01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:49.899 Mm-hmm. 01:14:49.899 --> 01:14:53.289 So, you lived, did you live in Stillwater together for? 01:14:53.289 --> 01:15:09.039 Well, when we first got married, we had lived in the Corey's (ph) little rent house behind their house up at 10th and something just before you go in the new edition. Last little place for you go into the new edition. 01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:10.920 Okay. 01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:50.399 Cute little house. She still talks about it, but the Judge Corey (ph) and his wife kept it up nice and and then Noel helped us, or bought a trailer for us, and we moved when we moved to Stillwater the following year. And, so, we lived in it, and then when we moved back to Bristow, three years later, the trailer is still sitting out there on the five mile road south of Kathy's [Kathy Bacon] house. 01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:51.180 Is it really? 01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:53.039 Yes. 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:56.699 Oh, wow! Okay, and is that where you lived there? 01:15:56.699 --> 01:16:08.670 We lived there till we built a house in 1970, well, seven or eight, because Stacey [Stacey Shields] was about a year old. 01:16:08.670 --> 01:16:10.710 And was that in town? 01:16:10.710 --> 01:16:11.000 1228 South Hickory. 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:21.199 South Hickory, huh? Um, well, and since you mentioned your kids, tell me, tell me how many children you have and what their full names are. 01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:28.760 Stacey Lynn Shields and David Blake Barnett. 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:36.710 David Blake Barnett. Okay, and I have Stacey's birth date as 11/1/76 and Blake's as 8/18/79. 01:16:36.710 --> 01:16:37.069 Correct. 01:16:37.069 --> 01:16:49.550 Is that correct? Okay. Can you think back to what the challenges were of being a dad, say, when they were little, or when you were a new dad? 01:16:49.550 --> 01:17:03.000 No, I, well, one of the things that I remember, you know, it was Stacey was probably six months old before, I mean, I enjoyed it immensely, but before I got over the nervousness of being a new dad. 01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:07.020 Exactly. Of having a little baby that you had to be in charge of and take care of. 01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:08.039 Yeah. 01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:08.699 Yes. 01:17:08.699 --> 01:17:12.000 So, it took her till she's about six months before you could fully enjoy her? 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:17.010 Well, I think I fully enjoyed her, but I still was nervous, yes. 01:17:17.010 --> 01:17:22.949 Okay, um, it, but you can't think of any other challenges you just enjoyed, enjoyed being a dad? 01:17:22.949 --> 01:17:36.930 Yeah, well, you know, we talked about part of the raising is you just, mom, if she worried about what all she couldn't or didn't have or couldn't do, she just did what was necessary and kept, kept plugging. 01:17:36.930 --> 01:17:37.859 Right, right. 01:17:37.859 --> 01:18:06.569 You know, and, so, that was very useful, you know, we, while I worked for UPS, we, you know, I paid off my student loans first year I was out of college. So, we lived and that was probably the best time we had money. She worked for a freight company there. They work from five in the morning until ten at night. 01:18:06.569 --> 01:18:07.449 Oh, wow! 01:18:07.449 --> 01:18:37.359 Six days a week, except they take off early on Saturday, and they would drive over to, it was Joseph's before it was Freddie's at that time, and then it was later on, Freddie's. But anyway, back then, I started, that's kind of when I started cooking. I started making tabbouleh, because they like tabbouleh and I would share it with them. So, that was really one of the first things that I got proficient at. 01:18:37.359 --> 01:18:41.920 So, now you're on the hook for tabbouleh and cinnamon rolls with me, because I love tabbouleh, too. 01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:42.489 Oh, you do? 01:18:42.489 --> 01:18:44.590 Yes, I do. 01:18:44.590 --> 01:18:46.720 Well, if anything else you need. 01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:50.050 I'm just going to go ahead and write my order out for whenever this is over. 01:18:50.050 --> 01:18:51.340 Do you like cabbage rolls, too? 01:18:51.340 --> 01:18:54.489 Yes, I do. I love cabbage rolls. 01:18:54.489 --> 01:18:56.800 Well, I got the real thing there. 01:18:56.800 --> 01:18:57.850 Oh, you do.? 01:18:57.850 --> 01:18:59.949 That's a story in its own. 01:18:59.949 --> 01:19:10.000 Oh, my goodness, okay, well, and, so, while we're still on your your family, I know you have grandkids, so tell me how many grandkids you have and what their names are. 01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:29.289 I have six grandkids. Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver, Barnett and Talus Barnett. And I have a bonus Riley Walker, grandson. 01:19:29.289 --> 01:19:29.869 Okay. 01:19:29.869 --> 01:19:36.289 He has lived with the Shields since his junior year in high school, and he's the same age as Chapman, so. ages chat 01:19:36.289 --> 01:19:46.239 Well, and now I also hear, that since you've retired, you've become quite the cattleman, and that you you're doing that some with your grandkids, with your grandsons? 01:19:46.239 --> 01:20:05.500 I'm an inadvertent cattleman. Noel left the cattle to the three kids, and Tony [Tony Bacon] kind of looked at the cattle, and Lowell [Lowell Propst], and they both passed away, so, that's why I say, I didn't mean to be a cattleman, but I am. 01:20:05.500 --> 01:20:07.210 But you're liking it, aren't you? 01:20:07.210 --> 01:20:09.850 I like it. I like it because I get to spend time with my grandkids. 01:20:09.850 --> 01:20:15.420 With your grandsons. And mainly, don't, don't Cooper and Cyler, aren't they the main ones that do that? 01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:30.329 Cyler is. Cooper's very helpful. All of them have helped to some degree. When we work them, most of them are there, including Riley. And, so, it's a 01:20:30.329 --> 01:20:31.289 Family affair? 01:20:31.289 --> 01:20:34.800 Well, and very enjoyable. That's a neat time. 01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:35.000 Well, good. 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:37.220 You know, it's a 01:20:37.220 --> 01:20:44.000 Because, if you remember, I took Cyler's senior pictures out there, and we were trying to herd cattle, to try to get some in the background. 01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:44.329 Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I know that you're definitely a family man. I know that, like, you got you cook on Sundays. And you, you know, you got all the family there. 01:20:44.329 --> 01:20:59.119 [Indecipherable] 01:20:59.119 --> 01:21:04.000 We typically have most of the family there on Sundays, and maybe a few extra. 01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:09.619 A few extras. I don't know, you might have me as an extra at some point. 01:21:09.619 --> 01:21:11.750 So, I need to invite you when I do cabbage rolls? 01:21:11.750 --> 01:21:24.979 Yes, yes, absolutely. Um, okay, well, we've talked about the the Lions Club and the pancake recipe. Um, oh, it was the Industrial Authority. You were on the Industrial Authority. 01:21:24.979 --> 01:21:27.739 Industrial Authority and chairman of it for a number of years. 01:21:27.739 --> 01:21:41.180 Okay, and then Stacey mentioned the old Chamber of Commerce that was on Main Street. You had mentioned that. Um, is there anything you want to add about either of those things? 01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:44.510 No, I don't know, you know it, it was just 01:21:44.510 --> 01:21:46.000 One of the, some of the things that you were a part of. 01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:48.819 Mm-hmm. 01:21:48.819 --> 01:21:51.939 Okay. Well, just as a fun question 01:21:51.939 --> 01:21:56.680 At some point, maybe we might go over some of the bank history that I remember. 01:21:56.680 --> 01:21:59.500 Okay, well, go ahead, go right ahead. 01:21:59.500 --> 01:22:11.560 Well, when we came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme's dad for a few months down at Krumme Oil Company. 01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:12.300 Okay. 01:22:12.300 --> 01:23:27.390 And, so, she learned a lot of Krumme history from him, and so that helped, and then he was on the board when in '74, so there was a number of people, anyway, I can't remember all the people's names that was on the board back then. But then they, The Fosters, Arthur Foster and Lewis and Debbie Farha, Sr. were their primary stockholders of Community Bank, and they sold out to 92% of the stock was sold to five families, basically, board member families: George Krumme, Harlan Krumme, TP McAdams, who had McAdams Pipe and Supply, David Loeffler and the up north, the house that just burned behind Walmart. 01:23:27.390 --> 01:23:28.350 Oh. Collins? 01:23:28.350 --> 01:24:09.329 Yeah, Roger Collins, yes. And, eventually, the stock, you know, they end up acquiring the rest of the stock. when in TP McAdams acquired one of the other interests, so he became a 40% shareholder, and when Roger Collins decided he wanted out, the Krumme brothers acquired 30% each. I think it was his stock they acquired. 01:24:09.329 --> 01:24:15.000 Because, I was thinking, that's what George had said, that they ended up acquiring the majority of the stock?Was that correct? 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:29.670 Well, and then, yes, and then when TP McAdams passed, basically, they acquired his share, so they basically the two Krumme brothers ended up being 100% shareholder. 01:24:29.670 --> 01:24:30.569 Right. 01:24:30.569 --> 01:25:13.960 And they had acquired Anadarko Bank shares and Security First National, and then they did some estate planning and kind of split it out, and Harlan's family took their Anadarko Bank shares, and and George and his family took Security First National, Community Bank, and then in 1990 they acquired the two banks in Heavner. And then, five years ago, they acquired Oklahoma Capital Bank. It evolved from Community Bank shares to Sooner Southwest was the tier company and Sooner Southwest now owns four banks, so. 01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:42.670 Yeah, okay, and I'm actually happy that I had visited with Mr. Krumme about that prior, because I kind of actually know what you're talking about. I have some, I have some background on that to understand what you're talking about. Um, was there any other history that you wanted to share about the Community Bank? Because it Community's just been such a, I mean, it's just always, it just seems like it's always been part of Bristow, you know. 01:25:42.670 --> 01:25:53.229 Correct. Yeah. No. It just, it kind of like the my life, we just, Community Bank kept plugging. 01:25:53.229 --> 01:25:54.310 Yeah, exactly. 01:25:54.310 --> 01:25:57.609 Not making too many waves, you know? 01:25:57.609 --> 01:26:18.600 Well, we love Community Bank. That's where, that's where we bank, and that's one thing that I told Mr. Krumme, I think the thing that I always loved about Community Bank and still do, is just the personal, the personal attention and the personal feel that you get whenever you you bank there. It's always been, it's always been, been our bank. 01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:33.600 Well, one of the things that I feel blessed, all the jobs I've ever had, I've never worked for anybody where they didn't try to do things the right way with the best of intention, you know. But didn't mean all the decisions were easy. 01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:33.989 Right. 01:26:33.989 --> 01:26:59.670 But you never had to worry about compromising your principles to do business there. When I worked for Mancel and I worked for Noel, I never saw them put a piece of equipment or anything on a vehicle that they wouldn't have done the same thing on their own vehicle. And back in those days, gas stations were kind of like used car lots. They weren't really high up on the trust. 01:26:59.670 --> 01:27:09.000 Right, right. You were infused with a lot of integrity throughout your life of working with the different the different jobs that you've had. 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:10.109 Oh, yeah. 01:27:10.109 --> 01:27:13.829 Which I feel like the world is lacking a little bit. 01:27:13.829 --> 01:27:14.250 Yes. 01:27:14.250 --> 01:27:18.060 Now that's, that's good. 01:27:18.060 --> 01:27:25.770 Well, I mean, I never had any of them say, well, do that anyway. It may not be quite right, but, well, what's the right way to do it? 01:27:25.770 --> 01:27:31.439 Right. Which is important. We need more of that now. 01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:44.189 Yes, well, you know, and I won't quote but I mean, I've had one of the owners says, well, we shouldn't violate the pig rule, because we can have more. 01:27:44.189 --> 01:27:44.569 Right. 01:27:44.569 --> 01:27:46.159 Let's do the right way, right thing. 01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:49.010 Right, right. Oh, that's yeah, I agree. 01:27:49.010 --> 01:27:52.189 I mean, that's pretty simple times, but yeah, really meaningful, I think. 01:27:52.189 --> 01:27:57.979 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, do you mind if I just ask you a couple of fun questions? 01:27:57.979 --> 01:27:58.550 Certainly. 01:27:58.550 --> 01:28:11.329 Or I think they may be fun. I don't know. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? 01:28:11.329 --> 01:28:15.979 Probably the cell phone if I was guessing most 01:28:15.979 --> 01:28:16.880 Good and bad. 01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:20.420 Yes, yeah, right, yes. 01:28:20.420 --> 01:28:29.090 I can't disagree with that answer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 01:28:29.090 --> 01:28:47.149 Well, because of the cell phone and the access to information, good information and bad information, it's completely different because, you know, some things that would not have been, you know, 01:28:47.149 --> 01:28:48.260 Available? 01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:52.159 Right. You know, sometimes things are just better left unknown. 01:28:52.159 --> 01:29:20.359 Well, and I mean, exactly, and I feel like now, like it's kind of a double-edged sword of you, you're, you appreciate the connection. But then sometimes you want to not be connected, you know, all the time, yeah, where I think back then, before all of that, you could just, you weren't constantly connected with everyone.But, but oddly enough, I think phones have have also disconnected us. You know, as far as in person, being able to communicate with each other. 01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:45.539 You know, I talked about when I was in college, doing the old punch card, yes, write the program. When I came back to the bank in 1985 they had acquired their first computer. It was a $20,000 computer. It took literally five to 10 minutes just to boot up. 01:29:45.539 --> 01:29:47.000 My how things have changed. 01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:48.680 Well, and then it didn't do much. 01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:51.319 Yeah, I know. Yeah, right. 01:29:51.319 --> 01:29:54.529 So, I'm just saying, and now what you have 01:29:54.529 --> 01:29:58.340 Now, we have a pocket computer that we walk around with. 01:29:58.340 --> 01:30:01.130 Thousands of times of capabilities of that computer had on it. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0065_David_Barnett.xml OHP-0065_David_Barnett.xml
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Title
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David Barnett
Description
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David's parents, William Dotson Barnett and Syble Marie Horn Barnett, were sharecroppers. David, the youngest of seven children, attended Bristow schools and worked various jobs, including at List Motors and Mancel Murphy's gas station. He attended OSU, earning a degree in organizational analysis. David worked at Community Bank for 30 years, starting in 1974, and co-founded Barnett Operations, an oil field service business. He also served on several community boards and attended First Church of God since 1974. David shared about his wife Ellen and two children, Stacey and Blake. He also talked about his role in the community, including his involvement with the Industrial Authority and Community Bank. David reflected on the impact of technology, particularly the cell phone, and emphasized the importance of integrity and commitment in family and work.
Identifier
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OHP-0065
Date
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2024-09-05
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video
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ac11fdc207ab58fe62f766615c9ef4af
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Title
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Oma Kay Murray
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0064_Oma_Kay_Murray.xml
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6.0 August 16, 2024 OHP-0064 Oma Kay Murray OHP-0064 00:01:07 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Oma Kay Murray Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0064 Murray, Oma Kay.mp3 Other audio 0 Birth Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 16, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Oma Kay Murray at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 00:23
 ; Oma Kay Murray. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:26
 ; Okay. And do I have permission to record this interview?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 00:29
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:29
 ; Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 00:35
 ; I was born October the 11th, 1951 in Bristow, Oklahoma.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:42
 ; Okay, and were you born at the, were you born at the Bristow Hospital?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 00:45
 ; I was born at the hospital on Eighth Street.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:49
 ; Was that called the Sisler, was that the Sisler? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 00:51
 ; Sisler Clinic? I think so.
 ; Oma Kay Murray was born on October 11, 1951. She was born in Bristow, Oklahoma at the Sisler Clinic. Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Historical Society ; Oma Kay Murray ; Bristow Library Annex ; Sisler Clinic Birth 0 56 Parents and Siblings Regan Siler 00:56
 ; Well, can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. What are your parents full names?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 01:03
 ; Daddy was James Rufus Copeland, and mother was Oma Olivi or Oleva, is what's on her birth certificate. Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:16
 ; Okay, and I have your dad, his date of birth as 7/12/1911. And then I have your mom's birthday as July 5, 1913. Does that sound right? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 01:29
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:29
 ; Okay. And do you have any siblings? And if so, what are their names?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 01:36
 ; I have a brother. That's all. He's older than I am. He, his name is Buddy Alexander Copeland, and he's living in Florida right now.
 ; Oma's father's name was James Rufus Copeland. Her mother was Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland. Oma has one brother ; his name is Buddy Alexander Copeland. James Rufus Copeland ; Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland ; Buddy Alexander Copeland ; Florida Parents ; Siblings 0 109 Parents' Work Regan Siler 01:49
 ; Okay, um, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 01:53
 ; Um, well, what I remember first is that mom and dad, when daddy came back from the war, mother was working for the Dr Pepper plant here in town.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:10
 ; Because right before I came up here, I was at the I was down at the depot, and they said they thought that your dad worked at the bottling company. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 02:19
 ; He did. He did. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:20
 ; So they both did? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 02:20
 ; He had a truck, and he delivered out in the country, south of town and to all those little stores that we used to have. And mother worked in the office. She kept the books.
 ; Oma's parents worked at the Dr. Pepper bottling company. Her mother worked in the office. Her father had a truck and made the deliveries out in the country. Oma's family then moved to New Mexico so that her father could work in the oil field. Then they relocated to Louisiana so her father could work with his brother. Her family moved back to Bristow when Oma was about 6 years old. Her father did odd jobs and was later hired as the school janitor. Her mother worked as the secretary at the Methodist Church. James Rufus Copeland ; Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland ; Dr. Pepper Co. ; Southwest Pecan ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Mason (Okla.) ; Buddy Alexander Copeland ; Welty (Okla.) ; Rayma Lee Montgomery ; Roy Kuykendall ; Claremore (Okla.) ; New Mexico ; Oil fields ; Louisiana ; Patterson (La.) ; Methodist Church Job 0 495 Extended Family Regan Siler 08:15
 ; Okay, and did your dad's family live in this area?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 08:22
 ; Several, well, I say several did. My aunt lived with her, the my grandma and she was a nurse, Mary Tribble.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:34
 ; Say her name again.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 08:35
 ; Mary Tribble.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:36
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 08:37
 ; The the first baby born in the hospital. That picture that they have, the nurse that's holding her is my aunt.
 ; Oma had some family living in Bristow. Her grandmother and some aunts. Her aunt, Mary Tribble was a nurse. Her aunt, Donna Branscum was a nurse for the health department. Oma had family in New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana and Illinois. Oma moved to Tahlequah for a bit while attending school but has been back in Bristow since 1973. Mary Tribble ; Donna Branscum ; Health Department ; New Mexico ; Texas ; Louisiana ; Illinois ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Okmulgee Tech Family 0 609 Early Childhood Regan Siler 10:09
 ; Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood, or any favorite games that you played? That's taking it way back.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 10:26
 ; That is, that's taking it way back. You know what I remember a lot is just riding bicycles and being outside and making up games that we would play and, and the neighborhood kids would come, and we would ride bicycles in, in the street in front of the house where we live was dirt, you know, it was a dirt road. And I lived right next door to the garment factory. So, we would ride bikes in the garment factory, and then we could go just a block, and we would be at Washington School
 ; Oma enjoyed playing outside when she was young. She loved riding her bicycle. She remembers riding her bicycle in the garment factory. Garment Factory ; Washington School Childhood 0 679 Chores Regan Siler 11:19
 ; Did you have chores that you were expected to do when you were young?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 11:26
 ; Well, I just had to keep my room picked up and that type of thing. But when I got old enough to push a lawn mower, I started mowing yards, and I would mow mom and dad's yard. That was and that was kind of a chore. But then I would mow for the lady across the street, and then I'd mow for my grandma. My grandma always paid me $5.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 11:52
 ; Oh! But you didn't get paid? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 11:54
 ; I didn't, mother didn't no mom, dad didn't pay me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 11:57
 ; But your grandma did?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 11:57
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 11:58
 ; Grandma was taking care of you.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 11:59
 ; Grandma was taking care of me.
 ; Oma was expected to keep her room clean when she was growing up. When she got a little older, she started mowing lawns. Her grandmother would pay her $5 when she mowed her lawn. James Rufus Copeland ; Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland Chores 0 722 Favorite Activities Regan Siler 12:02
 ; Do you remember having any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 12:07
 ; I like to paint, and that was the paint by numbers. And I like to do that. I like to color. I just, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:15
 ; I always did, too! The best thing in the world was getting the box of 64 crayons, a brand new box of crayons. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 12:21
 ; And, yeah, and then I and I like the different, I mean, like, I like the the colored pencils.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:31
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 12:31
 ; And then, yeah, and all the different colors in the big boxes of crayons, yes.
 ; Oma enjoyed painting as a child. She would do the paint by number activities. She loved to color also and enjoyed getting a new box of crayons or colored pencils. Hobbies ; Paint Hobbies 0 756 Art Regan Siler 12:36
 ; So, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit. Since you open the art door. I talked to both of your girls before this interview, and they said you wouldn't probably admit how artistic you are, but to visit with you about your artistic abilities.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 12:56
 ; Oh, I don't know, I kind of got away from, well, I still painted, though. I would paint things. I would paint rocks, and I'd paint gourds, and I would paint tin cans. I made, I made a Christmas ornament every year, and I just made oodles of them. So, I would give them to my friends, and I would give them to the teachers at school, and and, and I had a set for me, and as the girls got married and had trees, then I would make them, you know, I just that. And I made one of Oklahoma and had it on the tree. I don't know, I just did that, but it just, I've lost that. I can't do that now, because I don't have time. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:46
 ; Well, now, did you have, did you have a hand in painting the pirate? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 13:52
 ; No, that was my dad.
 ; Oma has always enjoyed painting. She would paint rocks, gourds and tin cans. She made Christmas ornaments every year for years and even made an Oklahoma one. Her father was very artistic and painted the Bristow pirate. He would spend his lunch breaks painting at the old junior high building. Christmas ; James Rufus Copeland ; Junior High ; Art ; Paint Art 0 895 Collecting Rocks Regan Siler 14:55
 ; He was more, more into the landscape thing. And okay, did do you remember collecting anything as a child?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 15:09
 ; Rocks.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:11
 ; So, you did collect rocks?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 15:12
 ; I did collect rocks. And I, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:15
 ; Are those the ones you painted? Or did you 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 15:16
 ; No, well, no, no, I no. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:18
 ; You just liked to collect them?
 ; Oma collected rocks as a child. She helped collect rocks that her father used to make a patio in their backyard. They would drive the old dirt roads and look for rocks to collect. James Rufus Copeland Rocks 0 969 School Regan Siler 16:09
 ; It had to have some character, too. I can, I can get on board with that. Can you tell me about your school life? I know you said you started off in Louisiana in the first grade. Did you go the rest of your school years in Bristow? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 16:27
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 16:28
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 16:28
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 16:28
 ; Um, do you remember having any particular influential teachers?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 16:34
 ; Um, Mrs. Jackson, scared me, scared me, scared me, but she she was such a good teacher.
 ; Oma attended first grade in Louisiana. She then attended Bristow schools for the rest of her schooling. She loved Mrs. Holcomb who taught art. Oma walked to school as a child. She was part of the Latin Club in high school. Oma loved her Family Living class taught by Wanda Newton. Louisiana ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Gladys Holcomb ; Ima Jean Jackson ; Edison Elementary ; Washington School ; Latin Club ; Math Club ; Family Living ; Wanda Newton School 0 1212 Friends Regan Siler 20:12
 ; Well, so I understand that you had, or have a group of friends that you've had for a really long time, and that you guys called yourself something?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 20:23
 ; Mr. Miller called us the dirt, the half, dirty half dozen.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 20:30
 ; The dirty half dozen and, and I understand that you're you guys are still friends to this day?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 20:36
 ; We're still friends to this day.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 20:38
 ; Which is pretty cool.
 ; Oma has a group of friends to this day from her childhood. They were called the dirty half dozen. Recently, Oma and her friends stayed for a weekend at Betsy Davis's four-story house on Grand Lake. Betsy Davis ; Grand Lake (Okla.) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Sandy Sweatt ; Paulette Womack ; Susan Brown ; Carolyn Humphrey Dobrinski ; Nona Harvin ; Diabetes ; Kathy Mattox ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Linda Barry ; Karen Elias Friends 0 1448 Childhood Home Regan Siler 24:08
 ; Exactly. Um, well, can you tell me a little bit about the house that you grew up in here in Bristow? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 24:14
 ; Mm, hmm. When we bought the house, it was small. It had a big front porch. It was covered. It had the big posts, you know, to support the cover. But it was
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:31
 ; And this was the one over by the garment factor?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 24:32
 ; Uh huh, but it was little, and it had a it had a back porch, and that was where mom had the, the washing machine, and then there was a little outside back porch that you could step down. And Daddy had a big garden in the back. He could grow anything. But over the years, they redid the kitchen and, and they changed the floors. It had hardwood floors, and I wish that daddy hadn't, they there was some kind of, some kind of flooring that they put down that it just
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:33
 ; It messed up the floor.
 ; Oma grew up in a small house by the garment factory. Oma did not have a bedroom for a lot of her childhood and slept in the dining room. She was in high school by the time she had her own bedroom. Bristow (Okla.) ; Garment factory ; Louisiana Home 0 1604 Playing Outside Regan Siler 26:44
 ; My goodness, okay, where did you spend most of your time? Were you, sounds like you were probably more of an outside kid. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 26:52
 ; I was, I was outside all the time till dark, but it was just a block up to the highway and then two blocks to my grandma's house. She lived on Third Street, on the corner and of Oak and, and Third and, so, I go up there. My cousin from New Mexico is eight months older than I am, and she came every summer because her mother died when she was little. I don't know if she 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 27:29
 ; So that was probably fun for you?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 27:30
 ; That was like having a sister, yeah, yeah. She was my sister for a lot of years and and then she would come down, you know, even after she was of age to be able to drive. She would drive down. You know, I would never have driven that far by myself, but she would drive.
 ; Oma spent most of her time outside growing up. She would play outside until it was dark. Her grandmother lived a few blocks away and Oma went there often. Oma also had a cousin from New Mexico that was eight months older than her. She came and spent the summers here in Bristow. She was like a sister to Oma. Highway ; Third Street ; New Mexico Outside 0 1669 Mealtimes Regan Siler 27:49
 ; Well, what were meal times like in your family? Did you guys, was was dinner for you like sitting down with the family every night? Or were you going different directions or?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 28:00
 ; No, we were able to sit down every night and eat, and we ate things out of the garden. We always had vegetables out of the garden and tomatoes, which I didn't like tomatoes, but my mother loved them. And, you know, cucumbers and carrots and asparagus and there were different kind of fruit trees power in the backyard, right planted in the backyard, there was a little pear tree and a, I'm sorry, an apple tree. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:36
 ; So, whenever you were younger, did your mom teach you how to cook? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 28:44
 ; No, I didn't want to be in the kitchen, cooking. I wanted to be outside.
 ; Oma and her family ate dinner together every night. They ate a lot of things from their garden. Oma enjoyed her mother's cooking. Her favorite was fried chicken and mashed potatoes. Oma still has her mother's recipe book. Family ; Dinner ; Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland Mealtimes 0 1784 Community Activities Regan Siler 29:44
 ; So whenever you think about growing up in Bristow, do you remember having any favorite community activities? And you know, for instance, a lot of people talk about Western Heritage Days, day camp, you know, parades, county fairs. Tell me about some of that those times for you and what you remember?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 29:44
 ; Well, I remember Western Heritage Days, and they had the saloons, and they had the saloon girls that would, you know, prance up and down the street, and you could see those, and there were gun fights in the middle of Main Street, and we had Woolsworth then. Woolsworth was there, and then Ben Franklin.
 ; Oma remembers Western Heritage Days in Bristow when she was young. They had saloon girls prancing up and down the street. She also says there were gun fights in the middle of Main Street. Western Heritage Days ; Main Street ; Ben Franklin ; Woolsworth ; Dollar Tree Community Activities 0 1859 Businesses Around Town Regan Siler 30:59
 ; To buy records? Okay. Well and that kind of leads into my next question of what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town. But it sounds like you liked Woolworths and
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 31:10
 ; I liked Kemp's. When we walk, I I, my mom took me to school at junior high, but I had to walk home. So, I walked, you know, all the way home to Oak Street. Yeah, it was quite a walk, but I had some people that walked with me to, like, Sixth Street, and then, you know, then I walked by myself the rest of the way, which I wouldn't let my kids do today for anything.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:39
 ; But did you you mentioned Kemp's? Did you used to stop by there?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 31:42
 ; We stopped there, if, you know, if we got out of school early or something, we would stop there. And there would be kids and, and there was a, I guess you would say bar or whatever. But anyway, you could sit up on the stools and order your, your drinks or your shakes, or whatever you wanted right there. Yeah, while you visited with your friends,
 ; Oma bought her records from a store called Woolworths in Bristow. Oma enjoyed going to Kemp's when she was young. She would sometimes stop on her way home from school with her friends. They had a bar where you could sit up on the stools and order drinks and milkshakes. There was also a pizza place called Darrel's Pizza that Oma enjoyed. Woolworths ; Kemp's Drugstore ; Junior High ; Oak Street ; Sixth Street ; Emily Winter ; Fifth Street ; Lyons Cafe ; Opal Lyons ; Edison Elementary School ; Washington School ; Biggs Chiropractic ; Darrel's Pizza ; Oscar's Businesses 0 2074 Teenage Life Regan Siler 34:34
 ; Did you have a favorite hangout as a teacher, as a teacher, as a teenager?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 34:41
 ; Well, you know, we drug Main and we would go to the Tastee Freez and, but I don't remember places where we got together, except at each other's houses.
 ; Oma drug Main with her friends when she a teenager. They would go to the Tastee Freez. They also hung out together at each other's homes. Main Street ; Tastee Freez Teenage Life 0 2098 Cars and Learning to Drive Regan Siler 34:58
 ; Do you remember your family's first car?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 35:03
 ; I do. It was a Nash Rambler. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:07
 ; Nash Rambler. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 35:08
 ; Nash Rambler. It was white, and the front seat was divided in two, so the driver had a section and the person in the front have a section, and this is what I remember. And, so, anyway, we would drive from Oklahoma to Louisiana to see my uncle and family down there and stuff. And, so, Mother would scoot over and sit on the same side with daddy, and then she would lay that seat down, and Buddy could sleep on that because it was longer, or he slept in the seat, and then maybe I slept beside him, like that, and so. And we always drove at night.
 ; Oma's first family car was a Nash Rambler. It was white and this is the car that her family traveled from Oklahoma to Louisiana in. Oma's brother taught her how to drive. Oma's first car was her brother's old Chevy pickup truck. Nash Ramblers ; Oklahoma ; Louisiana ; Chevrolet automobile Automobiles 0 2227 Entertainment Regan Siler 37:07
 ; What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you, did you get to watch much TV? And if you did, did you have a favorite program?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 37:19
 ; I watched, Saturday was my favorite day to watch TV. And, so, there was Fury the Horse, and then there wasSky King with his airplane, and, and then the the comedy, or the kind of, of course, we had the, we had the cartoons that were Sylvester and the Road Runner and those kind of cartoons. I liked cartoons. Yes, did you ask me two questions in that one?
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 37:56
 ; Just what your favorite programs were and what, like, if TV was part of your entertainment, whenever you were young.
 ; Oma says Saturdays were her favorite days to watch Television. She enjoyed cartoons, such as Sylvester and the Road Runner. She also liked Fury the Horse and Sky King. Television ; Fury (Television program) ; Sky King (Television program) ; Sylvester and the Road Runner ; cartoons Entertainment 0 2305 Pivotal Historical Moments Regan Siler 38:25
 ; Do you, do you recall witnessing any pivotal events in history on TV that you saw on TV?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 38:36
 ; I was in fifth grade when the first astronaut went around the earth.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 38:47
 ; Did you find that fascinating? Or did it really, do you remember it affect? Do you remember what you thought at the time when, when you realized, hey, there's somebody in space going around.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 39:00
 ; I don't know, it almost seemed like it wasn't real.
 ; Oma remembers when she in the fifth grade and the first astronaut went around the Earth. She was in seventh grade when John F. Kennedy was shot. She remembers it being traumatic. History ; Television ; Earth ; John F. Kennedy ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Oak Street Historical Moments 0 2403 Holidays Regan Siler 40:03
 ; Right. Well, let's talk about your family and holidays. Do you remember what holidays were like for, for your family when you were younger? Say, let's take Christmas, since that's usually a big one for people.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 40:21
 ; Well, I would have things that I wanted and, and I could get, I would get some of them, but I wouldn't get all of them. I always wanted a, I always wanted a horse, and I wanted an outfit like Dale Evans. I never got it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 40:35
 ; You never got it?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 40:36
 ; I never got those two things. And I was so upset. But, you know, we didn't get a lot.
 ; Oma remembers always wanting a horse and an outfit like Dale Evans for Christmas. She says she never got those, but her brother did buy her a western belt one year. She also remembers receiving a stuffed bear one year and sleeping with it until she was about 13. Holidays ; Christmas ; Dale Evans ; Buddy Alexander Copeland Holidays 0 2517 Career Dreams Regan Siler 41:57
 ; Oh, you did? Well, that's perfect, isn't it? Well, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Do you ever remember thinking about that?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 42:10
 ; Well, I had two nurses in the family, so I thought I wanted to be a nurse, and the more I learned about it, but yeah, the less I wanted to do that. So, I played, I played teacher, you know, I had a chalkboard. I did one of my Christmas presents was a chalkboard. It was about this big, and I would stand it up on something, you know, a shelf or something, and, and I would play like I was a teacher. So, I guess that was 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:39
 ; Maybe you
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 42:40
 ; That was
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:41
 ; It was foretelling your future?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 42:43
 ; That was maybe the intention for me.
 ; Oma has two nurses in her family, so she thought she wanted to be a nurse when she grew up. The more she learned about nursing the less she wanted to do that. She played teacher with a chalkboard that she received as a Christmas present one year. She says teaching was the intention for her. Nurse ; Teacher ; Christmas ; Career Career ; Dreams 0 2565 Jobs Regan Siler 42:45
 ; Well, and that's a good transition into my next question, because I wanted to talk to you about the jobs that you've had. I know whenever we visited on the phone, you said you started out at Drumright [Oklahoma] your first year, because you were trying to get on here, and they didn't want to hire brand new teachers, and then 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 43:04
 ; From Bristow.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 43:05
 ; From Bristow, so, so tell me, because it's a long history that you have with Bristow Public Schools. Tell me how many years you've
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 43:15
 ; This one will be 51.
 ; Oma started her teaching career at Drumright, Oklahoma. She only taught there for one year and then moved to Bristow Public Schools. This year is her 51st year at Bristow. She started out teaching the special ed children. She then helped get the speech services going again at the school. Oma did speech from 1973-1990. She then taught first grade until 2013. She was burnt out and ready to retire. Vicki Groom helped her get on as an assistant to the Speech Pathologist, Jennifer Morgan. Oma still works part time doing this, Drumright (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Christmas ; Washington Elementary School ; Edison Elementary School ; Kathy Mattox ; Vicki Groom ; State departments of education ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Speech and Language Pathology Assistant ; Jennifer Morgan Job 0 2916 Day Camp Regan Siler 48:36
 ; That's wonderful. Um, and then the other thing that you have, obviously, been instrumental in is day camp. So, tell us about day camp and how you got started and
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 48:49
 ; It's been so long.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 48:49
 ; We moved here, and I started day camp that summer that we moved here, I started day camp, so that was I was six. And, so, I went to day camp through till I was able to be a day camp helper. I was working with Chuck West and Wanda Newton. They were awesome. And, anyway, we, I was, I was able to become a counselor, and,, and I worked becoming a counselor, and then somebody else was doing it, besides Wanda and Chuck, because they, they retired, but they, whoever did it, didn't last. Well. I think it was Womack. Mrs. Womack. Margaret, Mary Margaret, Womack, okay, she worked there, but I don't remember who the male, I don't know if there even was a male. I don't remember who the other person was, but anyway. Yeah, but Vicki and I took it on, Vicki and I took it on and we did it. I can't even remember when we started. I can't remember when we started. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 49:16
 ; I can't!
 ; Oma has been a huge part of the Bristow Day Camp program. She started going to day camp when she moved to Bristow when she was 6. She went to day camp until she was old enough to become a helper and then a counselor. Chuck West and Wanda Newton were over it and then she believes Margaret Womack took it over. Later Vicki Groom and Oma started doing it. She no longer helps with day camp, but she did for many years. Bristow Day Camp ; Chuck West ; Wanda Newton ; Margaret Womack Day camps 0 3186 Husband Regan Siler 53:06
 ; Well, you've definitely, you've definitely found your calling. Um, okay, well, let's talk about your family. Um, when and where did you first meet your spouse and tell us his full name?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 53:21
 ; Jesse Richard Murray, and I met him at the drive in.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 53:26
 ; I hear that there, there's a funny story there. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 53:29
 ; Oh, I don't necessarily want to tell it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 53:31
 ; Oh, you don't? Okay, well, you don't have to.
 ; Oma is married to Jesse Richard Murray. She met him at the drive-in theater. She says that on Wednesday nights it was $1 for a carload at the drive-in. Her and Rick met in the truck of the car. Oma says she actually first met her in-laws when she was 6 and they were the moving company her family used to move them back to Bristow. Jesse Richard Murray ; Drive-In Movies ; Rebel Rambler ; Murray Transfer and Storage Husband 0 3386 Engagement and Wedding Regan Siler 56:26
 ; Oh, no, that's funny. Um, so did you have, like, an engagement period, or did you just decide to get married or can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 56:48
 ; We just decided to get married? We thought it was too expensive driving back and forth to Tahlequah. He would drive to Tahlequah on the weekends, and or I would ride home with Don Tunnell (ph) and, and then we'd be there in Bristow, and then I'd ride back to school with Don Tunnell (ph). So, and then he moved down there and lived in a travel trailer that was this big and, but anyway, then we got married at Christmas. So we, we were six months.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 57:09
 ; So, did you get married in Tahlequah, or did you get married here? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 57:26
 ; No, we got married in Bristow, in the Methodist Church. But I didn't, I didn't want it to be a big wedding. So, there was a room in the in the church that had a little altar down at the end of it. So, they set chairs up on either side of the room, and then I entered through the back door and a little, just a little wedding.
 ; Oma and Rick dated about 6 months before deciding to get married. They got married at Christmas time. They held their wedding at the Methodist Church in Bristow. It was a small ceremony. Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Don Tunnell ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Christmas ; Methodist Church Engagement ; Wedding 0 3469 Children Regan Siler 57:49
 ; Okay. Well, so I know the answer to this, but tell me how many children you have and what their names are.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 57:56
 ; Okay, I have two girls, Jessica Renee Tiger now.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 58:05
 ; Okay. Jessica Renee Tiger. And then, oh, she's forty, forty-nine.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 58:05
 ; Right.
 ; Oma has two daughters. Their names are Jessica Renee Tiger and Emily Kay Murray. Jessica Renee Tiger ; Emily Kay Murray Children 0 3545 Motherhood Regan Siler 59:05
 ; Yeah, right. Can you remember or any, like, challenges of being a mom in the early days? Any struggles that you had?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 59:17
 ; Jessica never slept until she was nine months old.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 59:23
 ; And you, actually, had another baby after that?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 59:27
 ; Yeah, I wanted them close together, but it just didn't happen. And, so, they're almost five years apart, but 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 59:39
 ; You were probably trying to catch up on your sleep.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 59:41
 ; Yeah, a lot of it, a lot of it, it was and she had colic. I think a lot of it was the colic too, but this is what I blame it on. I ate at Taco Burger. Every week we would go out and eat at Taco Burger, and I would eat an empanada dinner, and I blame it on that. Then I craved fish with Emily, and she slept like a baby. So, go figure.
 ; Oma says that her first daughter, Jessica did not sleep well until she was nine months old. She had colic. There was a five-year age gap between her daughters. Her second daughter, Emily was a great sleeper. Jessica Renee Tiger ; Emily Kay Murray ; Taco Burger Motherhood 0 3610 Grandchildren Regan Siler 1:00:10
 ; Go figure. Well, so how many grandchildren do you have? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:00:13
 ; I have three. Jessica has Garrett Tyler Long and Gracie Renee Long and then there's Olivia Kay Wilkins.
 ; Oma has three grandchildren. Their names are Garrett Tyler Long, Gracie Renee Long and Olivia Kay Wilkins. Jessica Renee Tiger ; Garrett Tyler Long ; Gracie Renee Long ; Olivia Kay Wilkins Grandchildren 0 3630 Snow White Regan Siler 1:00:30
 ; Okay, all right, um, the girls also wanted me to ask you why they call you Snow White.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:00:41
 ; Because I go out and feed the animals, and they don't run away when I go out and feed them. They just wait until the food gets down, and then they come and eat. So, I feed the birds, and I feed the turkeys, and I feed the deer, and I've got a road runner that runs past and then get jumps up and gets a drink out of my bird bath, and it's just fun. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:01:08
 ; So, you're an animal lover? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:01:10
 ; I'm an animal lover. Yes, I am. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:01:12
 ; Well, I think that that warrants you being named Snow White. 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:01:16
 ; I guess so. I guess so. They come up with stuff. We have so much fun together.
 ; Oma's daughters call her Snow White. Oma goes outside to feed the animals, and they don't run away. She feeds the birds, turkeys, and deer. She even has a road runner that drinks out of her bird bath. Snow White (Tale) Snow White (Tale) 0 3682 Important Invention Regan Siler 1:01:22
 ; So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:01:42
 ; I don't know. I mean, I hate to say the phone having it with you when we managed without it, but it's such a fast paced world now, it's kind of, what would we do without it? The cars have changed.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:02:03
 ; Cars are computers just about anymore.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:02:05
 ; Right. And I don't want a computerized car, because I don't do computers very well. Color TV, I guess.
 ; Oma talks about the importance of cell phones nowadays and how we wouldn't know what to do without them. She also says that cars are so much different now than when she was young. She says color TV is also a big change from the past. Invention ; Phone ; Color television Invention 0 3736 How the World is Different Regan Siler 1:02:16
 ; That's fair. How do you feel the world is different now than it was when you were young or a child?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:02:24
 ; Too fast-paced. So much more dangerous than it ever was when I grew up.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:02:33
 ; You know, I just talked to Linda Kay Herman. I interviewed her yesterday, and she actually said almost the exact same thing, that whenever you guys grew up and you rode bikes and everyone was around town, you never thought about your, you never had fear, really, like what you do. Like you really wouldn't let your kids do that now.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:02:55
 ; Right. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:02:56
 ; Which is sad. I mean, I feel like you guys had a very carefree time of growing up.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:03:02
 ; And, see, my parents thought, saw it as a different generation, and it was, you know, much more fast paced than than they grew up in their little country houses with nine kids in a two-bedroom house.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:16
 ; Right.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:03:18
 ; That was my grandparents.
 ; Oma says the world is much more fast-paced than when she grew up. She feels it is much more dangerous now also. Linda Kay Herman World 0 3799 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 1:03:19
 ; Right, right. So, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved? 
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:03:29
 ; Oh, gosh.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:30
 ; I'm challenging you, Oma Kay.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:03:33
 ; I know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:35
 ; And you don't have to answer if you don't want to. But I just think it lends to the maybe the perspective, if someone can answer it, of, you know, of the time period when someone goes back and listens to this 100 years from now, of the things that were troubling to you at this time.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:03:52
 ; I think it's the fact that we've gotten away from God for one thing. And you're supposed to love your neighbor as yourself, and that's just not true anymore. People don't care for each other. They can, and I mean, I'm guilty of it too, seeing people on the side of the road wanting money and stuff. You can't do that because you don't know if they're for real.
 ; Oma says that a big problem in our nation is that we have gotten away from God. She says that people don't love their neighbors as themselves anymore. Oma feels like people don't care about each other like they used to. God Nation ; Problem 0 3877 Historic Events-Covid Regan Siler 1:04:37
 ; Sometimes it feels like maybe it's swung too far the other way, and not really sure how to how to get it back.Have any historic events affected your life, and say, for example, like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11 COVID, natural disasters? Have there been any types of those historic events that have had a direct effect on your life?
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:04:38
 ; I think COVID has. It shut down the schools, and that's created school issues for the kids.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:04:46
 ; Kind of long-lasting.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:05:15
 ; Right, right. And I'm not so sure about schooling at home. There would be parents that would, that would participate in that and make sure their kids did things at home that they were supposed to do at school. But then you've got the parents that are not going to.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:05:38
 ; And then those kids get left behind.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:05:40
 ; And they get left behind. Yeah, and that's not fair.
 ; Oma says that Covid has had a direct effect on her life. She saw firsthand how that the schools closing has had long-lasting issues for the students. Some children did not have parents helping the children with schooling at home. Covid ; School Covid 0 3942 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:05:42
 ; I agree with that. Well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:05:53
 ; I don't think I'm that person that could come up with.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:05:55
 ; No, I mean, I really think it's, it can be a very basic sentiment. I think you are. I think you've experienced a lot of life, a lot of kids, a lot of family things. I mean, I know there's some wisdom in there that you can share with us.
 ; 
 ; Oma Kay Murray 1:06:11
 ; I just try to stay as positive as I can, and I try to keep everything upbeat. That's what God wants us to do. You know, you, you, you're thankful in the good times, but you're thankful in the bad times, too. And you get through them.
 ; Oma finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. She says that people should try to stay positive and upbeat. They should be thankful in the good times and bad. Wisdom ; God Wisdom 0 MP3 Oma Kay Murray was born October 11, 1951 in Bristow, Oklahoma. Oma Kay's parents, James and Oma Copeland, worked at a Dr Pepper bottling company after WWII. She attended Bristow Public Schools where she was involved in pep club and Latin Club. Oma Kay has been a teacher for 51 years, starting in Drumright and then Bristow, where she taught special education, speech, and first grade. She met her husband, Jesse Richard Murray, at a drive-in. Oma Kay is known for her community involvement, particularly in day camp and has had a lasting positive impact on the youth of Bristow. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:23.000 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 16, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Oma Kay Murray at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:26.000 Oma Kay Murray. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:29.000 Okay. And do I have permission to record this interview? 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:29.000 Yes. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:35.000 Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:42.000 I was born October the 11th, 1951 in Bristow, Oklahoma. 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.000 Okay, and were you born at the, were you born at the Bristow Hospital? 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.000 I was born at the hospital on Eighth Street. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.000 Was that called the Sisler, was that the Sisler? 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.000 Sisler Clinic? I think so. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:03.000 Well, can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. What are your parents full names? 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Daddy was James Rufus Copeland, and mother was Oma Olivi or Oleva, is what's on her birth certificate. Oma Oleva Alexander Copeland. 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Okay, and I have your dad, his date of birth as 7/12/1911. And then I have your mom's birthday as July 5, 1913. Does that sound right? 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Yes. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:36.000 okay. And do you have any siblings? And if so, what are their names? 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:49.000 I have a brother. That's all. He's older than I am. He, his name is Buddy Alexander Copeland, and he's living in Florida right now. 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Okay, um, what type of work did your parents do? 00:01:53.000 --> 00:02:10.000 Um, well, what I remember first is that mom and dad, when daddy came back from the war, mother was working for the Dr Pepper plant here in town. 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:19.000 Because right before I came up here, I was at the I was down at the depot, and they said they thought that your dad worked at the bottling company. 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.000 He did. He did. 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:20.000 So they both did? 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:32.000 He had a truck, and he delivered out in the country, south of town and to all those little stores that we used to have. And mother worked in the office. She kept the books. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:38.000 So, they both worked there. Interesting. And where was the bottling company located? 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.000 It was on Eighth Street, where Southwest Pecan is. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:42.000 Really? 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.000 Yes. 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.000 So, was it very big? 00:02:45.000 --> 00:03:34.000 No, not necessarily. There was a there was a building that they drove into and and that was where they loaded the Dr Pepper cases and stuff. And then the other building was where they cooked the Dr Pepper, and I think that was up above. And my brother told me this because my brother was old enough to be down there and and he would, you know, play down there. He's, he's nine years older than I am, so he was around it a lot, and he would go with daddy on on the trips down south to do all the little stores and and make deliveries and, and that's really all he really, that I remember him talking about, is south. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.000 Going out south. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:50.000 Go out south, going out south. And there were little towns out there, you know, there was Gypsy and, and then there was, what's the one where Rayma Lee's [Rayma Lee Montgomery] 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.000 Like in Mason or? 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.000 Welty! Welty, there's a little store, and I think it's even still there now. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:21.000 Well, so did they work there for very long? Like, I wonder how long I need to do my research and find out how long the bottling company was there. We were just had been donated, like bottles and some stuff from the bottling company was recently donated to the museum. So that's why it was interesting to know that both your parents had worked there. 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:35.000 They both worked there. I have pictures that I sent to the depot and and it was a lot, you know, it was all the workers, and I knew some of them, like Roy Kuykendall, worked there. And, oh, it was Darlene. Oh, I can't see this is where I can't name. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:55.000 No, that's okay. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:09.000 That's bad. But anyway, I can see him. He had a filling station at one time, too. Let me think later. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.000 No, that's okay. 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.000 Yeah, there were several people that I knew, but 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:18.000 So, do you, how long do you have any recollection of how long your parents worked there? 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.000 No, because I just, I just remember that 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.000 Because you were little. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:06:35.000 So, I would, yeah, I was little. They, they sold the the Dr Pepper plant to a man that didn't do a very good job of keeping things going like the other one did. And I can't remember his name, either, it'll come to me. But anyway, so they sold it to him, and then he moved on. I think he moved to Claremore [Oklahoma], the man that I can't remember. And mom and dad went to New Mexico to get in the oil field, and they were just there. And I was there too. I was little bitty. And then they got a call from daddy's brother that lived in Louisiana, and he went down there. They, we all went down there and stayed while he worked offshore, and then he was kind of the last one hired for the company. But then he was the last one, first one to be let go. 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:40.000 Oh, shoot, so did your mom work while you guys were in Louisiana? 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:40.000 No, no. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.000 She just stayed home and took care of you guys? 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:49.000 And he worked offshore a week, and then he was home a week, and he worked offshore a week, and yeah. 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:54.000 So, then when did they move back to Bristow? 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:18.000 I did first grade in in Patterson, Louisiana, and in the summer after that, we moved back, and daddy just kind of had odd jobs. He worked for the Johns Brothers. He worked for the one that I told you had a filling station. He worked for him. Hodges. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:19.000 Hodges? 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:28.000 Yes, yes. And then he got on with the school, and he worked at the school as a janitor. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:38.000 So, did your did you have your parents were here? What made you come back to Bristow? Parents or grandparents? 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:47.000 Yeah, yeah, I had grandparent here, it's the only one that I really knew was my Grandma Copeland. So it was daddy's mother, and she lived. 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.000 So, is that what made you come back to Bristow? 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.000 I think so. I think so. 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.000 Like the family connection. 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:01.000 Because we, you know, we were here starting out, and then went to try to better ourselves and make better jobs. I'm saying myself, but they were. 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.000 Right. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:15.000 And, so, when we got back here, Daddy got that well, he had some odd jobs, and then he got that job with the school, and mother worked as a secretary for the Methodist Church. 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:22.000 Okay, and did your dad's family live in this area? 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:34.000 Several, well, I say several did. My aunt lived with her, the my grandma and she was a nurse, Mary Tribble. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.000 Say her name again. 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:36.000 Mary Tribble. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.000 Okay. 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:44.000 The the first baby born in the hospital. That picture that they have, the nurse that's holding her is my aunt. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.000 Oh cool! 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:59.000 And then Donna Branscum was a sister to my dad, and she was the the nurse for the health department. 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.000 Okay. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:20.000 So, and they, they were here, but none of the, none of the boys lived here. So, we had, I had brothers or uncles in New Mexico and Texas and Louisiana and Illinois. They were just kind of, yeah. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.000 So, have you been here? So you guys moved back around the second grade? 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.000 I was probably six. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:30.000 Okay. And have you been here since then? Or did you 00:09:30.000 --> 00:10:07.000 The only time that we were away was while I was in school in Tahlequah, and then we moved, Rick, Rick worked at Tahlequah [Oklahoma] while I finished my schooling, and then we came back to Bristow, and he had worked at the carpet mill before. So, when he came back to Bristow, he started school at Okmulgee Tech, and then worked at the carpet mill at night. So, so we've been back here since '73. 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:08.000 For a real long time. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.000 For a real long time. 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:26.000 Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood, or any favorite games that you played? That's taking it way back. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:11:01.000 That is, that's taking it way back. You know what I remember a lot is just riding bicycles and being outside and making up games that we would play and, and the neighborhood kids would come, and we would ride bicycles in, in the street in front of the house where we live was dirt, you know, it was a dirt road. And I lived right next door to the garment factory. So, we would ride bikes in the garment factory, and then we could go just a block, and we would be at Washington School,. 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.000 Okay. 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:59.000 Grandma was taking care of you. 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:12.000 And, so, we just, I remember that night, I did, I we just couldn't afford a lot of toys, so we just kind of made things. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.000 You used your imagination! 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.000 Right. We did. 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:16.000 Something that I think is lacking a little bit. 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.000 Yes, I think so. 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:26.000 Did you have chores that you were expected to do when you were young? 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:52.000 Well, I just had to keep my room picked up and that type of thing. But when I got old enough to push a lawn mower, I started mowing yards, and I would mow mom and dad's yard. That was and that was kind of a chore. But then I would mow for the lady across the street, and then I'd mow for my grandma. My grandma always paid me $5. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.000 Oh! But you didn't get paid? 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.000 I didn't, mother didn't no mom, dad didn't pay me. 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:57.000 But your grandma did? 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Yeah. 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:02.000 Grandma was taking care of me. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:07.000 Do you remember having any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:15.000 I like to paint, and that was the paint by numbers. And I like to do that. I like to color. I just, you know. 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:21.000 I always did, too! The best thing in the world was getting the box of 64 crayons, a brand new box of crayons. 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:31.000 And, yeah, and then I and I like the different, I mean, like, I like the the colored pencils. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:31.000 Yes. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:36.000 And then, yeah, and all the different colors in the big boxes of crayons, yes. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:56.000 So, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit. Since you open the art door. I talked to both of your girls before this interview, and they said you wouldn't probably admit how artistic you are, but to visit with you about your artistic abilities. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:46.000 Oh, I don't know, I kind of got away from, well, I still painted, though. I would paint things. I would paint rocks, and I'd paint gourds, and I would paint tin cans. I made, I made a Christmas ornament every year, and I just made oodles of them. So, I would give them to my friends, and I would give them to the teachers at school, and and, and I had a set for me, and as the girls got married and had trees, then I would make them, you know, I just that. And I made one of Oklahoma and had it on the tree. I don't know, I just did that, but it just, I've lost that. I can't do that now, because I don't have time. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:52.000 Well, now, did you have, did you have a hand in painting the pirate? 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.000 No, that was my dad. 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.000 That was your dad. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:54.000 My dad. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.000 That painted the pirate. 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:57.000 Yes. 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:01.000 So, do you think you inherited some of your artistic ability from him? 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:16.000 Maybe, maybe, yeah, and he painted a lot when, well, he started painting when he was working at at school, and he would take his lunch, and I don't know if you remember the old junior high building. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:16.000 Oh, yeah. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:30.000 Okay. Well, there were stairs that would take you up up to the very top, and there was windows all around, so the lighting was really good. So, Daddy would go up there and paint instead of eating, you know. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.000 Really, well that's cool! 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:54.000 He would go up there and paint and and so he he would he got better. He got better as he painted more and more. And he did landscapes more than he did. He didn't, he didn't do people well, you know, he tried, he tried to paint cowboys and stuff like that, but he never got everything just, just right. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:55.000 He never got that down? 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:55.000 Yeah, yeah, never. 00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:09.000 He was more, more into the landscape thing. And okay, did do you remember collecting anything as a child? 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Rocks. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.000 So, you did collect rocks? 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.000 I did collect rocks. And I, you know. 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.000 Are those the ones you painted? Or did you 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.000 No, well, no, no, I no. 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.000 You just liked to collect them? 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:50.000 Yeah, I just like to collect them. And so I used different things to collect them. Sometimes I would look for holes in rocks. And so if I'd find, you know, rocks with holes in them, I would, I would save those or and Daddy made a patio out of rocks, and we would go and drive the the old dirt roads. And if there was a rock on the side of the road, we would that we could get 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:50.000 That looked like it would work? 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.000 And we would get it, and we'd put it in the car, and he made a patio in the backyard that was real nice. 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:51.000 Oh, wow! 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:52.000 Yeah. 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:58.000 And from rocks from all over. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.000 Yeah. 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:02.000 Well that's cool. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.000 But it always had to be, it couldn't just be a rock. It had to have, I had to tell what, why I liked it. 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:27.000 It had to have some character, too. I can, I can get on board with that. Can you tell me about your school life? I know you said you started off in Louisiana in the first grade. Did you go the rest of your school years in Bristow? 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.000 Yes. 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:28.000 Okay. 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:28.000 Yes. 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:34.000 Um, do you remember having any particular influential teachers? 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:49.000 Um, Mrs. Jackson, scared me, scared me, scared me, but she she was such a good teacher. 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.000 And what did she teach? 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:57.000 She teach, she teach. She taught. She taught third grade. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:57.000 Third grade, okay. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:19.000 And so I had her, and then I loved Mrs. Holcomb, and she was the art teacher for a while, but then, when Ola Lee was the name of the the librarian, when she left, then Mrs. Holcomb took over the 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:25.000 What was Ola Lee's last name? I almost think I did an old interview, an old oral history that they 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.000 I can't remember that. I just remember Ola Lee. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.000 So, then Mrs., what was, do you remember Mrs. Holcomb's first name? 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.000 Gladys. 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.000 Gladys Holcomb. And then what was Mrs. Jackson's first name? Do you remember? 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:37.000 Ima Jean. 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:39.000 Ima Jean Jackson. 00:17:39.000 --> 00:18:04.000 And see, and then I worked with them. I didn't work with Mrs. Holcomb. She wasn't working anymore. But when I, when I started teaching speech, I would, I worked with kids at Edison on Monday and Wednesday, and then on Tuesday and Thursday, I would go to Washington and work with the speech kids over there, so I worked with some of my teachers. 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:12.000 That's full circle. Do you remember how you got to school as a youngster? 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:20.000 I walked, because I was only a block away, so I would walk to school and walk home. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:27.000 Walk home. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations which would probably be more 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:51.000 That was high school, high school, the pep club, the Latin Club. Take Latin that was so hard, but we joined the Latin Club. I was in a math club, but not a strong math student, but just, you know, you get in those clubs because your friends are in there. 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.000 Right, right. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.000 And so, yeah, I wasn't a strong math student. 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:55.000 So did you enjoy school? 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.000 I did. 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:57.000 Overall. 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.000 Yeah. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:09.000 Did you have a did you have a favorite subject? 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.000 It wasn't math. 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:14.000 It was probably art! 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:14.000 You know, Wanda Newton taught, what was it? Something living. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:26.000 Family Living? 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:48.000 Family Living, Family Living. And we, we did the whole, we started, you know, like our on our life outside of school and, and we met our husband, and we got married, and we had to plan the wedding, and then we had to buy a house. So, we walked around and looked at an empty house. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.000 Oh wow! 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:58.000 And so we had to set up our own floor plan and go buy groceries and, and how to learn how to change a flat and. 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000 Oh, well, that's good! 00:19:59.000 --> 00:19:59.000 Uh huh. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:10.000 That's good. In family living, when I had it, we had egg babies. We had a husband and egg babies we had to decorate and carry around, and then not break the egg, you know. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.000 Yeah. 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:23.000 Well, so I understand that you had, or have a group of friends that you've had for a really long time, and that you guys called yourself something? 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:30.000 Mr. Miller called us the dirt, the half, dirty half dozen. 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:36.000 The dirty half dozen and, and I understand that you're you guys are still friends to this day? 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.000 We're still friends to this day. 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.000 Which is pretty cool. 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.000 It is awesome. It is awesome. 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.000 Still get to get together and do things, and when you can. 00:20:45.000 --> 00:21:10.000 We went a couple of weeks ago to the lake. You remember Sandy Davis, Betsy Davis? Okay, Betsy's got this four story house on Grand Lake, and she's just there sometimes. And then she has an apartment in Tulsa. And so, anyway, she let us have that for the weekend. And so there were five, 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.000 So, is her mom part of your 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000 Yes. So, it was Sandy Johns. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.000 Okay. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.000 And Paulette Patton, now she's Womack. And then there, let me think a minute, Susan, Susan Brown, who's remodeling this house right here. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:34.000 And her last name is Sweatt, now, isn't it? 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Yes. It is yes, it is Sweatt. And then Carolyn Humphrey Dobrinski. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 Yes. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:22:19.000 And well, and then we always had Nona. Nona Welch was her name, and then she married, and it was Harvin. And anyway, she she was chronically ill all the time, but she made us laugh. We just had so much fun with her, and she had diabetes, and she didn't take care of herself, and so she and she smoked and she, you know, so there was always something wrong with her, but when she was feeling good, she was fun. She was so much fun. We lost her. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:50.000 I, actually, ran into, crazy enough, Stephanie and Betsy when my husband I were out to eat at lunch. And Stephanie was, she was a year older than me, and she was like my big sister. I loved her to death, and it was so like I again, I cried. I had just we hugged, and it was I was so happy to see them because I hadn't seen Stephanie in forever. Then to just run into them at lunch in Tulsa was awesome. Pretty, pretty cool to get to see them again. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:50.000 Yeah. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.000 I think that's so, so neat that you guys are, are all still friends. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:04.000 We're all still friends and hang out and we're going, actually, we are go all going out to eat Monday. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000 Oh fun! 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:32.000 We're going to go to Tulsa. So Susan's here Paulette's going. Kathy Mattox, we, we, she graduated in '69 in Oklahoma City. So, so Kathy's going, and Paulette and myself, and then we're meeting Linda Barry and Karen Elias. Do you remember Karen Elias? 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:33.000 I don't know her. 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:42.000 Okay. She was in our she was in our class and but wasn't it wasn't in the group that ran around and stuff, yeah,42 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:46.000 Well, that, that's fun. I'm glad you have that. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:24:02.000 Yeah, I'm glad I have it. That's just, they just, it was so relaxing to go. There was a deck on each level, so we'd get out and go on the first deck, and then sometimes they'd come up and go on the second deck. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.000 You were living the life, weren't you? 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.000 Yeah! Oh yeah, finding out how the other half lives. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:14.000 Exactly. Um, well, can you tell me a little bit about the house that you grew up in here in Bristow? 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:31.000 Mm, hmm. When we bought the house, it was small. It had a big front porch. It was covered. It had the big posts, you know, to support the cover. But it was 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.000 And this was the one over by the garment factor? 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.000 Uh huh, but it was little, and it had a it had a back porch, and that was where mom had the, the washing machine, and then there was a little outside back porch that you could step down. And Daddy had a big garden in the back. He could grow anything. But over the years, they redid the kitchen and, and they changed the floors. It had hardwood floors, and I wish that daddy hadn't, they there was some kind of, some kind of flooring that they put down that it just 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.000 It messed up the floor. 00:24:38.000 --> 00:25:49.000 Yeah, it messed up the floor. So anyway, then we put carpet over that, but there was a front bedroom and a back bedroom, and the bathroom was in between, and there was doors to enter it both ways, and then I slept on an we had a we lived in a trailer in Louisiana, and they took one of the beds out of it, and it was just a half bed at the back of the trailer, and they put it in the living room, and not in the living room, in the dining room. And I slept in the dining room. 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:53.000 Well, I was going to ask you if you had your own room, but you slept in the dining room. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:54.000 I slept in the dining room. 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:02.000 Oh, my goodness. And, how long, how long was it like that? 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:41.000 Well, by the time that I was in high school, Daddy took the two closets out and took the wall out. I mean, don't take them out, but he cleaned them all out, and then he took the wall that out that separated the two closets, and he made a door in the dining room that would go into a hall, and you could go to the right or the left, or to the restroom in the front and then that front bedroom after my brother left, I could, I could go in the door from the living room, or go inn the door, you know, from the dining room. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.000 So, it was high school, then, before you had your own room 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:44.000 Right. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:52.000 My goodness, okay, where did you spend most of your time? Were you, sounds like you were probably more of an outside kid. 00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:29.000 I was, I was outside all the time till dark, but it was just a block up to the highway and then two blocks to my grandma's house. She lived on Third Street, on the corner and of Oak and, and Third and, so, I go up there. My cousin from New Mexico is eight months older than I am, and she came every summer because her mother died when she was little. I don't know if she 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.000 So that was probably fun for you? 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:49.000 That was like having a sister, yeah, yeah. She was my sister for a lot of years and and then she would come down, you know, even after she was of age to be able to drive. She would drive down. You know, I would never have driven that far by myself, but she would drive. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:28:00.000 Well, what were meal times like in your family? Did you guys, was was dinner for you like sitting down with the family every night? Or were you going different directions or? 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:36.000 No, we were able to sit down every night and eat, and we ate things out of the garden. We always had vegetables out of the garden and tomatoes, which I didn't like tomatoes, but my mother loved them. And, you know, cucumbers and carrots and asparagus and there were different kind of fruit trees power in the backyard, right planted in the backyard, there was a little pear tree and a, I'm sorry, an apple tree. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:44.000 So, whenever you were younger, did your mom teach you how to cook? 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000 No, I didn't want to be in the kitchen, cooking. I wanted to be outside. 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.000 You wanted to be outside. So, do you remember? Was she a good cook? Do you remember? 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:53.000 She was a great cook. 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Do remember coming away with any good recipes or favorite meals? 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:10.000 I do. I have her, I do have her recipe book and it's just a notebook, you know, spinal back notebook, and she had written down, or she would cut them out and paste them in there. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000 So, do you remember having, like, a favorite meal that she cooked for when you were young? 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:40.000 Well, I love mashed potatoes. When I was little, Mother said, I used to wake up in the night and say, I want tatties, I want tatties. She would go get cold mashed potatoes out of the ice box, and I guess I would eat 'em. So anyway, but yeah, she just that mashed potatoes really was my favorite, and fried chicken. 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.000 Fried chicken? 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.000 Just plain old home meals. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:44.000 So whenever you think about growing up in Bristow, do you remember having any favorite community activities? And you know, for instance, a lot of people talk about Western Heritage Days, day camp, you know, parades, county fairs. Tell me about some of that those times for you and what you remember? 00:29:44.000 --> 00:30:29.000 Well, I remember Western Heritage Days, and they had the saloons, and they had the saloon girls that would, you know, prance up and down the street, and you could see those, and there were gun fights in the middle of Main Street, and we had Woolsworth then. Woolsworth was there, and then Ben Franklin. 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.000 Tell us what Woolsworth is. 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:50.000 Woolsworth was like, it's just like a department store that you walk into. Clothes were not a lot but, but there were toys, and there were cooking things, and there were, I don't know, it kind of reminds me of the Dollar Tree. 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.000 Okay. 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:59.000 Yeah, things that you can go in there to find and records, records. I always went to Woolworths to buy my records. 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:10.000 To buy records? Okay. Well and that kind of leads into my next question of what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town. But it sounds like you liked Woolworths and 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:39.000 I liked Kemp's. When we walk, I I, my mom took me to school at junior high, but I had to walk home. So, I walked, you know, all the way home to Oak Street. Yeah, it was quite a walk, but I had some people that walked with me to, like, Sixth Street, and then, you know, then I walked by myself the rest of the way, which I wouldn't let my kids do today for anything. 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000 But did you you mentioned Kemp's? Did you used to stop by there? 00:31:42.000 --> 00:32:07.000 We stopped there, if, you know, if we got out of school early or something, we would stop there. And there would be kids and, and there was a, I guess you would say bar or whatever. But anyway, you could sit up on the stools and order your, your drinks or your shakes, or whatever you wanted right there. Yeah, while you visited with your friends, 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:16.000 Hung out with your friends, huh? Did you have a favorite place to eat out in town or did you primarily eat at home? 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.000 No, I ate in the cafeteria. 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.000 Well, even as a family. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:57.000 Oh, even as a family. I don't remember eating out very much as a family, but that's something that I'm kind of jealous of, because mom and dad lived, at one time, they lived right across the street from Opal Lyons. You know the house that Opal Lyons and and, and I can't remember, okay. Do you know where Emily Winter lived on Fifth Street? Okay, okay, so the that it's on the south side, mom and dad lived straight across the street on the on the north side. 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:57.000 Okay. 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:03.000 And there's a lot of construction stuff in front of that house, like they're going to work on it. 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.000 But they haven't. 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.000 And, so, and they haven't. 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:06.000 Yeah. 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.000 Are the materials? 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:08.000 Yeah exactly. 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.000 Still good. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:51.000 But Buddy was, I don't know if I was born in that house or the one on 11th street, but anyway, Buddy would they knew, they knew the Lyons. And so there was the Lyons Cafe. And so Mother would would let Buddy come and join her. He would be at school, you know, over there. He went to Edison School. I didn't. I went to Washington and and then, you know, on over so, but he would come and join them at Lyons Cafe. And I never did get to do that. There were no there was, 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.000 I've heard about Lyons Cafe. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.000 Yeah. 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.000 People have talked about that. 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:06.000 Yeah. And I, I don't know of any cafes. Now there was the pizza place that was where Ty [Biggs Chiropractic] is now. 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.000 Darrell's? 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.000 Darrell's Pizza. 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.000 Oh yeah, Darrell's was big when I was in school. 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.000 Yeah, and then Oscars. 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.000 Oh yeah. 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:19.000 Like, that wasn't, we didn't really go out to eat as a family. We just, I always considered us poor. 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:32.000 Well, it's funny, though, I think a lot of people from your generation, when I ask that question, it's they might have went somewhere occasionally, but people primarily, people primarily ate at home. 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.000 Yeah. 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:41.000 Did you have a favorite hangout as a teacher, as a teacher, as a teenager? 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:58.000 Well, you know, we drug Main and we would go to the Tastee Freez and, but I don't remember places where we got together, except at each other's houses. 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:03.000 Do you remember your family's first car? 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:07.000 I do. It was a Nash Rambler. 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.000 Nash Rambler. 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:54.000 Nash Rambler. It was white, and the front seat was divided in two, so the driver had a section and the person in the front have a section, and this is what I remember. And, so, anyway, we would drive from Oklahoma to Louisiana to see my uncle and family down there and stuff. And, so, Mother would scoot over and sit on the same side with daddy, and then she would lay that seat down, and Buddy could sleep on that because it was longer, or he slept in the seat, and then maybe I slept beside him, like that, and so. And we always drove at night. 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.000 And it was so safe! 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:02.000 Yeah, yes, yes. And so, yeah, so we, that's the way we traveled. 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:06.000 Well, do you remember who taught you how to drive? 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.000 My brother. 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000 Your brother taught you. And do you remember what your first car was? 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.000 My brother's old pickup. 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:16.000 So, you gotta hand me down? 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.000 Yeah, I gotta hand you down. 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.000 And we're probably happy to have it. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:23.000 Yeah, and I, yeah, and I drove it to college. 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:28.000 Oh, really? So it lasted a while. Do you remember what, what it what kind it was? 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:39.000 It was a Chevy. It was, I don't know what the names of the trucks were, stuff like, but it was just a red Chevy pick-up truck. 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:43.000 Like seven, would it have been like a 70s model? 00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:53.000 Oh no, no, yeah, because my brother, let's see, he graduated in '60. 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:56.000 Oh so, oh, so it would have been quite a bit older. 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.000 Yeah, quite a bit older. 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:02.000 Okay, it was probably a, would be a collector's item now. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.000 Oh, it would. It would. 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:19.000 What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you, did you get to watch much TV? And if you did, did you have a favorite program? 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:56.000 I watched, Saturday was my favorite day to watch TV. And, so, there was Fury the Horse, and then there wasSky King with his airplane, and, and then the the comedy, or the kind of, of course, we had the, we had the cartoons that were Sylvester and the Road Runner and those kind of cartoons. I liked cartoons. Yes, did you ask me two questions in that one? 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:04.000 Just what your favorite programs were and what, like, if TV was part of your entertainment, whenever you were young. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:11.000 It was that, and it the TV was a lot different. I mean, you know, it was more. 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:18.000 It was almost like a special occasion or a special treat to get to watch TV, I think, than it is of everyone's got a screen in their face now. 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:22.000 Right, right. Yeah, we didn't know, I was outside. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.000 Which is good. 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:23.000 Yeah. 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:24.000 We need to get back to that. 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000 Yeah. 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:36.000 Do you, do you recall witnessing any pivotal events in history on TV that you saw on TV? 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:47.000 I was in fifth grade when the first astronaut went around the earth. 00:38:47.000 --> 00:39:00.000 Did you find that fascinating? Or did it really, do you remember it affect? Do you remember what you thought at the time when, when you realized, hey, there's somebody in space going around. 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.000 I don't know, it almost seemed like it wasn't real. 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.000 Right. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:03.000 Yeah. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.000 I can, I can. I can see that. 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:18.000 Yeah, there it when I was in seventh grade, was when Kennedy [John F. Kennedy] was shot, and that was pretty traumatic. 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:26.000 Right. I've had several people as of lately, mention that as the thing that they remember is President Kennedy getting shot. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.000 Yeah. And then 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:33.000 Do you remember how you felt at that time as a seventh grader? 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:37.000 I didn't understand it. 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:37.000 Right. 00:39:37.000 --> 00:40:03.000 I, you know, I didn't understand why something like that would happen. I just didn't have a lot of knowledge of those kinds of things happening. I just lived in Bristow, Oklahoma, and I lived in, you grew up on Oak Street, yeah. And so I just, I couldn't. It was sad. It just, I just couldn't. 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:21.000 Right. Well, let's talk about your family and holidays. Do you remember what holidays were like for, for your family when you were younger? Say, let's take Christmas, since that's usually a big one for people. 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:35.000 Well, I would have things that I wanted and, and I could get, I would get some of them, but I wouldn't get all of them. I always wanted a, I always wanted a horse, and I wanted an outfit like Dale Evans. I never got it. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.000 You never got it? 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:43.000 I never got those two things. And I was so upset. But, you know, we didn't get a lot. 00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.000 Right. 00:40:44.000 --> 00:41:42.000 We didn't get a lot of presents and stuff. Sometimes I would get paint by number sets, you know, that I could, that I could work on, if it was rainy or something outside. Just simple things, just, I got a stuffed bear when I was little, and I slept with it until I was probably 13. I, you know, Buddy would, Buddy always worked. He was, he, when he was in school, he was working, and he would get me things for Christmas. And he did get me a western belt. And it had a belt buckle that was, you know, pretty good size. And there was a little, like a little dare, a little, is it, did you call them a Derringer? The little bitty one. Yes, I don't know. Anyway, it was a cap gun. 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:44.000 It was in the belt buckle? 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:53.000 So, if you would push your stomach out, it would come out and pop. I just love that. 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:54.000 Oh, that's funny. 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.000 I just love that. Yeah, I wore it, I wore it to Western Heritage Days. 00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:10.000 Oh, you did? Well, that's perfect, isn't it? Well, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Do you ever remember thinking about that? 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:39.000 Well, I had two nurses in the family, so I thought I wanted to be a nurse, and the more I learned about it, but yeah, the less I wanted to do that. So, I played, I played teacher, you know, I had a chalkboard. I did one of my Christmas presents was a chalkboard. It was about this big, and I would stand it up on something, you know, a shelf or something, and, and I would play like I was a teacher. So, I guess that was 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.000 Maybe you 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.000 That was 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:43.000 It was foretelling your future? 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.000 That was maybe the intention for me. 00:42:45.000 --> 00:43:04.000 Well, and that's a good transition into my next question, because I wanted to talk to you about the jobs that you've had. I know whenever we visited on the phone, you said you started out at Drumright [Oklahoma] your first year, because you were trying to get on here, and they didn't want to hire brand new teachers, and then 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.000 From Bristow. 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:15.000 From Bristow, so, so tell me, because it's a long history that you have with Bristow Public Schools. Tell me how many years you've 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.000 This one will be 51. 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:20.000 Fifty-one. 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.000 But it's 52 altogether, counting Drumright, see. 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:24.000 Right, right. 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.000 Yeah. 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:31.000 So, tell me, tell me about your, tell me a little bit about your time at Bristow and what that's been like for you. 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:53.000 Well, I did get a job the second year that I, I interviewed, and it was special ed, which my masters was in special ed. And, so I had, you know, they called, they called it, you were mentally retarded. 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.000 I know things have changed a lot. 00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:03.000 Yes, and it was, you were educable, mentally retarded, or you were trainable, you know, the more severe. So,I had the educable class, and it was in, it was at the old high school, but I was across in the in the the administration building. 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:18.000 Right. 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:59.000 That yellow building, but I'd go in, and on the right was my classroom, okay, and so I had, I had some I loved them. I loved the kids. There was one family that the dad did not have any legs, but they pulled him around Bristow in a wagon, and I had his daughter, but we knew that family, because he was a watch, he worked on watches, and he had watches. And, so, I got my first watch for Christmas in sixth grade, and it was from that family. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:44:59.000 Oh, wow. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:48:22.000 Yeah, and so anyway, I remember that. But so I taught there for a year and, but I went over and talked to Holderby, Holderby. He was in charge of the special ed department, and so I started asking him about having speech services at Bristow, and he said they had actually had speech services at Bristow in the past, but I guess they left and they didn't pursue it or whatever. So, anyway, we talked together and decided that we were going to try to get that going, and and, and we did. So, from '73 to '90, no, yes, from '73 to '90, I did speech at Washington and Edison for the four days, and then I went to the high school, or junior high or, you know, to service kids out there on Friday. And then I burn out. Paperwork is awful. It's much worse now. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to do it at all. But I burnt out, so I was going to school at night. I knew I was burning out, so I was going to school at night. And finally got a certificate for elementary education. And so I applied for an elementary education job and got the first grade position. And Kathy Mattox was next door to me teaching. So, she was kind of my person that I went to for help, and she kind of guided me through and got me through, and I taught first grade till '13. And I just, I just wasn't happy anymore, and so I retired. I was going to retire. And Vicki Groom called, you know how Vicki is. Okay, I need you to come over here and teach speech. And I said, Vicki, I can't do speech anymore because I said I either have to get a master's in speech or I have to take the test and pass it, and I can't pass a test because now speech has all the medical services that they do for people, and I don't know anything about that. Well, I'm going to call the State Department. She got online with a lady in Oklahoma City that was starting a program called Speech and Language Pathology Assistant, and you had to work under a speech and language pathologist. So, I got on doing that. Jennifer [Jennifer Morgan] was my SLPA, that or SLP, that I worked with and through, and then did the things that she told me to do, and, and so I've been there since. And I love it. I love working with the little kids and and 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:24.000 So, now are you just working half days? 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.000 I am just working half a day. 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Half days now, okay 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Yeah. 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.000 So 50, you're on your 51st year at Bristow Public Schools. That's just 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.000 And I still love it. 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:36.000 And that's wonderful. 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:36.000 Yeah. 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:49.000 That's wonderful. Um, and then the other thing that you have, obviously, been instrumental in is day camp. So, tell us about day camp and how you got started and 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:49.000 We moved here, and I started day camp that summer that we moved here, I started day camp, so that was I was six. And, so, I went to day camp through till I was able to be a day camp helper. I was working with Chuck West and Wanda Newton. They were awesome. And, anyway, we, I was, I was able to become a counselor, and,, and I worked becoming a counselor, and then somebody else was doing it, besides Wanda and Chuck, because they, they retired, but they, whoever did it, didn't last. Well. I think it was Womack. Mrs. Womack. Margaret, Mary Margaret, Womack, okay, she worked there, but I don't remember who the male, I don't know if there even was a male. I don't remember who the other person was, but anyway. Yeah, but Vicki and I took it on, Vicki and I took it on and we did it. I can't even remember when we started. I can't remember when we started. 00:48:49.000 --> 00:49:16.000 It's been so long. 00:49:16.000 --> 00:50:17.000 I can't! 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:27.000 Well, I know that you, because Emily was saying, you, you know, obviously you've taught all of your grandkids how to swim, plus, she said, millions of other kids in Bristow. 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:28.000 Yeah. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:34.000 It's, that's just kind of a, that's what Bristow is known for, is their day camp, you know. 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.000 Right, right. 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:49.000 And then we have the period, unfortunate period, without the without the swimming pool, but we're back and running again and and got it going. So, when did you, what year did you, because you're not doing it now, right? 00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:01.000 I'm not. I volunteered. I just, well, I won't go into why I quit, but I volunteered. I'd come up and do 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:01.000 And help in some areas. 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:11.000 Yeah, I would help wherever they needed me, or I'd just walk around helping out with archery and all of those kinds of activities. 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:21.000 Well, you've seen between school and day camp, you've probably been involved in just about every kid's life that's come through Bristow. 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:28.000 Yeah, and they'll stop me and say, I know you. And I'll say, tell me who you are. 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.000 Well, you probably still get a lot of random hugs and hellos. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.000 I do. I do. 00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:38.000 And stuff like that because of all the kids that you've been involved with over the years. 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:47.000 I always wondered what my calling was in life. You know, what God really wanted me to do. And I didn't really feel like I was doing anything special. 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.000 Well, how in the world can you think that? 00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:04.000 I don't know. I just, I don't know. I just, I didn't, it took me a long time. I finally realized that, that that is my calling, and that is what I meant to do, is to touch lives and save lives, and you know. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:54.000 Absolutely, absolutely, because, you know, when you think back as, especially as an adult, and which, you know, there was one particular coach for me that whenever I look back, he had a very particular hand in my life at a certain time. It wasn't even a big span. It was just a really small that was pivotal for me. And I think whenever you probably don't even realize as a teacher or even interacting with kids at day camp, when maybe they don't have much of a summer or other things to do when you show your care and your interest in them, what a difference that makes in, in their lives, you know. So, to say you didn't know what your calling was is CRAZY! 00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:06.000 Well, it is, it's crazy, but I didn't. I just, I would pray, and I'd say, God, what am I supposed to be doing? You know, I'm working. I'm working. What am I supposed to be doing besides working? 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:21.000 Well, you've definitely, you've definitely found your calling. Um, okay, well, let's talk about your family. Um, when and where did you first meet your spouse and tell us his full name? 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:26.000 Jesse Richard Murray, and I met him at the drive in. 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:29.000 I hear that there, there's a funny story there. 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.000 Oh, I don't necessarily want to tell it. 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:34.000 Oh, you don't? Okay, well, you don't have to. 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:37.000 Does it revolve around a car? 00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:45.000 Well, they didn't tell me. They just said ask, ask mom about how she met dad, because it was kind of a funny story. 00:53:45.000 --> 00:54:12.000 Well, you know, they had, I think it was Wednesday night that you just paid $1 a car load or something like that. And, so, we ran out of room, so some of us got in the trunk. Was my mom and dad's car. It was a Rebel Rambler. And anyway, we got in the trunk and and I met Rick in the trunk. I had never 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:20.000 You met him in the trunk! Well, one of the questions I ask is, what was your first impression? But I'm not, I mean. 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:21.000 I don't know. 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.000 Not sure you could have a first impression in the trunk. 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:25.000 It was dark. 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Well, so once you, so that was when you first met him, and then did you guys start hanging out after that or? 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:40.000 Yeah, sort of, we just kind of came together. I can tell you a better story. I don't know if you're going to ask me about it. When we moved, when we were going to move to Bristow. My dad got on the phone and called Murray Transfer and Storage, and they, to come and move us. And, so, Rick's dad asked, do you need a big truck or a small truck? And he said, oh, I think a small truck will do. Well, we lived in a trailer and, and we lived in the trailer park. We, that was our trailer park, and we split it with dad's brother, so he lived there, and we lived there, and then other families lived there and then, but we got a chance to move to a house, and it was a real nice house, screened in front porch, big living room. I think there were just two bedrooms, but I don't, I don't remember where I slept. I don't remember where I slept, but anyway, they, he came with a small truck, and they just couldn't take all the furniture, and it was a lot of the furniture was in there, and they were antiques, and my dad was just an antique lover. And, so, they packed everything in as tight as they could, and lowered the back end down and set stuff out on that. Well, Rick's mother came on the trip and his dad, well, and his grandpa, and, so, she took me over on a mat and put it out underneath the tree and played with me so I wouldn't get in the way. So, I met my mother in law and father in law when I was six years old. 00:54:40.000 --> 00:55:55.000 Well, isn't that that neat! 00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:02.000 Isn't that funny? Yeah. 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:15.000 Well, no, they didn't tell me that story, so I'm glad you told me. 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:26.000 Yeah, I should have told you that and left the other one out. 00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:48.000 Oh, no, that's funny. Um, so did you have, like, an engagement period, or did you just decide to get married or can you tell me about that? 00:56:48.000 --> 00:57:09.000 We just decided to get married? We thought it was too expensive driving back and forth to Tahlequah. He would drive to Tahlequah on the weekends, and or I would ride home with Don Tunnell (ph) and, and then we'd be there in Bristow, and then I'd ride back to school with Don Tunnell (ph). So, and then he moved down there and lived in a travel trailer that was this big and, but anyway, then we got married at Christmas. So we, we were six months. 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:26.000 So, did you get married in Tahlequah, or did you get married here? 00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:49.000 No, we got married in Bristow, in the Methodist Church. But I didn't, I didn't want it to be a big wedding. So, there was a room in the in the church that had a little altar down at the end of it. So, they set chairs up on either side of the room, and then I entered through the back door and a little, just a little wedding. 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:56.000 Okay. Well, so I know the answer to this, but tell me how many children you have and what their names are. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:05.000 Okay, I have two girls, Jessica Renee Tiger now. 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:05.000 Right. 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:16.000 Okay. Jessica Renee Tiger. And then, oh, she's forty, forty-nine. 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:22.000 I have her as '76, February, 4, 1976. That's her birthday? 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:31.000 Yes, yes. Okay, I was going from 70. I should have been going from 80 for Emily, no, Emily Kay. 00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:32.000 Emily Kay. 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:44.000 Murray. And she was born in on September the 15th, 1980. She's 44. 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:54.000 Well, your girls can't say enough about how much they love you and how good you are to the family, and how you'll do anything in the world for your family. 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:54.000 I will. 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.000 You will, yeah, that's 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:58.000 And I will. 00:58:58.000 --> 00:58:59.000 They wanted to make sure that you knew that. 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:01.000 And they're learning that, too. 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:01.000 Yes. 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:02.000 Helping Rick. 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:04.000 Yes. 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:03.000 Yes. 00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:01.000 03 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:05.000 When it's hard. 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:17.000 Yeah, right. Can you remember or any, like, challenges of being a mom in the early days? Any struggles that you had? 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:23.000 Jessica never slept until she was nine months old. 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.000 And you, actually, had another baby after that? 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:39.000 Yeah, I wanted them close together, but it just didn't happen. And, so, they're almost five years apart, but 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:41.000 You were probably trying to catch up on your sleep. 00:59:41.000 --> 01:00:10.000 Yeah, a lot of it, a lot of it, it was and she had colic. I think a lot of it was the colic too, but this is what I blame it on. I ate at Taco Burger. Every week we would go out and eat at Taco Burger, and I would eat an empanada dinner, and I blame it on that. Then I craved fish with Emily, and she slept like a baby. So, go figure. 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.000 Go figure. Well, so how many grandchildren do you have? 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:30.000 I have three. Jessica has Garrett Tyler Long and Gracie Renee Long and then there's Olivia Kay Wilkins. 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:41.000 Okay, all right, um, the girls also wanted me to ask you why they call you Snow White. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:48.000 Because I go out and feed the animals, and they don't run away when I go out and feed them. They just wait until the food gets down, and then they come and eat. So, I feed the birds, and I feed the turkeys, and I feed the deer, and I've got a road runner that runs past and then get jumps up and gets a drink out of my bird bath, and it's just fun. 01:00:48.000 --> 01:01:10.000 So, you're an animal lover? 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000 I'm an animal lover. Yes, I am. 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.000 Well, I think that that warrants you being named Snow White. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:22.000 I guess so. I guess so. They come up with stuff. We have so much fun together. 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:42.000 So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? 01:01:42.000 --> 01:02:03.000 I don't know. I mean, I hate to say the phone having it with you when we managed without it, but it's such a fast paced world now, it's kind of, what would we do without it? The cars have changed. 01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.000 Cars are computers just about anymore. 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:16.000 Right. And I don't want a computerized car, because I don't do computers very well. Color TV, I guess. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:24.000 That's fair. How do you feel the world is different now than it was when you were young or a child? 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:33.000 Too fast-paced. So much more dangerous than it ever was when I grew up. 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:55.000 You know, I just talked to Linda Kay Herman. I interviewed her yesterday, and she actually said almost the exact same thing, that whenever you guys grew up and you rode bikes and everyone was around town, you never thought about your, you never had fear, really, like what you do. Like you really wouldn't let your kids do that now. 01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:56.000 Right. 01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:02.000 Which is sad. I mean, I feel like you guys had a very carefree time of growing up. 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:16.000 And, see, my parents thought, saw it as a different generation, and it was, you know, much more fast paced than than they grew up in their little country houses with nine kids in a two-bedroom house. 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:18.000 Right. 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:19.000 That was my grandparents. 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:29.000 Right, right. So, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved? 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:30.000 Oh, gosh. 01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.000 I'm challenging you, Oma Kay. 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.000 I know. 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:52.000 And you don't have to answer if you don't want to. But I just think it lends to the maybe the perspective, if someone can answer it, of, you know, of the time period when someone goes back and listens to this 100 years from now, of the things that were troubling to you at this time. 01:03:52.000 --> 01:04:21.000 I think it's the fact that we've gotten away from God for one thing. And you're supposed to love your neighbor as yourself, and that's just not true anymore. People don't care for each other. They can, and I mean, I'm guilty of it too, seeing people on the side of the road wanting money and stuff. You can't do that because you don't know if they're for real. 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:22.000 The intention. 01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:23.000 Yeah, right. 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.000 The intentions behind it. 01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:37.000 Right. And, so to me, that's, I think it's just a troubling world as to how to solve it. I just, I don't have a clue. 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:38.000 Sometimes it feels like maybe it's swung too far the other way, and not really sure how to how to get it back.Have any historic events affected your life, and say, for example, like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11 COVID, natural disasters? Have there been any types of those historic events that have had a direct effect on your life? 01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:46.000 I think COVID has. It shut down the schools, and that's created school issues for the kids. 01:04:46.000 --> 01:05:15.000 Kind of long-lasting. 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:38.000 Right, right. And I'm not so sure about schooling at home. There would be parents that would, that would participate in that and make sure their kids did things at home that they were supposed to do at school. But then you've got the parents that are not going to. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:40.000 And then those kids get left behind. 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:42.000 And they get left behind. Yeah, and that's not fair. 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:53.000 I agree with that. Well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:55.000 I don't think I'm that person that could come up with. 01:05:55.000 --> 01:06:11.000 No, I mean, I really think it's, it can be a very basic sentiment. I think you are. I think you've experienced a lot of life, a lot of kids, a lot of family things. I mean, I know there's some wisdom in there that you can share with us. 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:37.000 I just try to stay as positive as I can, and I try to keep everything upbeat. That's what God wants us to do. You know, you, you, you're thankful in the good times, but you're thankful in the bad times, too. And you get through them. 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:37.000 Right. 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:43.000 And you get through them easier that way than you do when you're sitting over in a corner sobbing. 01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:45.000 And stewing and negative. 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:50.000 And yeah, and using drugs to try to help you get through it and things that are just so wrong. 01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:55.000 So, your message is, then, to just try to be positive through all circumstances. 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:56.000 Mm-hmm. 01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:57.000 Okay, I like that. 01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:58.000 And thankful. 01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:11.000 Yes and thankful. Well, we appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today, your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum. We appreciate you and thank you. 01:07:11.000 --> 00:01:07.000 You're welcome. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0064_Oma_Kay_Murray.xml OHP-0064_Oma_Kay_Murray.xml
Dublin Core
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Title
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Oma Kay Murray
Description
An account of the resource
Oma Kay Murray was born October 11, 1951 in Bristow, Oklahoma. Oma Kay's parents, James and Oma Copeland, worked at a Dr Pepper bottling company after WWII. She attended Bristow Public Schools where she was involved in pep club and Latin Club. Oma Kay has been a teacher for 51 years, starting in Drumright and then Bristow, where she taught special education, speech, and first grade. She met her husband, Jesse Richard Murray, at a drive-in. Oma Kay is known for her community involvement, particularly in day camp and has had a lasting positive impact on the youth of Bristow.
Identifier
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OHP-0064
Date
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2024-08-16
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audio
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Linda Kay Herman
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0063_Linda_Kay_Herman.xml
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5.4 August 15, 2024 OHP-0063 Linda Kay Herman OHP-0063 01:08:00 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Linda Kay Herman Regan Siler 1.0:|23(12)|54(17)|86(16)|103(3)|125(8)|146(13)|164(16)|188(9)|209(4)|231(14)|249(3)|272(9)|296(19)|320(8)|351(12)|374(17)|398(8)|425(14)|443(12)|470(7)|492(4)|513(7)|532(13)|548(3)|567(11)|586(14)|622(4)|645(4)|671(8)|688(16)|721(7)|738(11)|765(14)|795(10)|817(9)|836(18)|869(15)|899(16)|920(11)|950(7)|974(4)|992(7)|1019(3)|1042(9)|1072(8)|1098(9)|1119(20)|1146(4)|1172(14)|1195(3)|1224(11)|1237(6)|1257(11)|1267(11)|1305(10)|1320(12)|1344(11)|1367(4)|1381(18)|1404(11)|1436(5)|1456(8)|1480(8)|1498(4)|1518(6)|1538(16)|1555(11)|1590(10)|1606(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0063 Herman, Linda Kay.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 15, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Linda Kay Herman at the Bristow Library Annex. She is going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. And I did forget to say, make sure your phone is off. Okay, alright. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 00:30
 ; Linda Kay Herman.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:33
 ; Okay, and do I have permission to record this interview? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 00:36
 ; Yes, ma'am. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:37
 ; Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 00:42
 ; I was born at the Bristow Memorial Hospital, June 20, 1955. I was the 66th baby born in that hospital.
 ; Linda Kay was born on June 20, 1955. She was born at the Bristow Memorial Hospital. Linda says that she was the 66th baby born at the Bristow Hospital. Bristow Historical Society ; Linda Kay Herman ; Bristow Memorial Hospital Birth 0 84 Parents and Siblings Regan Siler 01:24
 ; Oh, really, you actually know that?! That's funny! Okay, well, can you tell us a little bit about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. What are your parents full names? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 01:37
 ; Benjamin Hill ("BH") Herman [1/30/1923-6/11/2016] is my father. Martha Jane Thompson Herman [6/4/1929-4/11/2003] was my mother.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:43
 ; Okay. And I have it, now, did your dad go by BH? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 01:48
 ; Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:48
 ; Okay, and I have his date of birth as 1/30/1923.
 ; Linda's parents were Benjamin Hill Herman and Martha Jane Thompson Herman. Linda has two brothers, Thomas Rogan Herman and Benny Taylor Herman. Benjamin Hill Herman ; Martha Jane Thompson Herman ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman Parents ; Siblings 0 134 Parents' Work Regan Siler 02:14
 ; Okay, um, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 02:20
 ; My dad had a body shop with his brother. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:24
 ; And what was the name, and what was the name of that? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 02:27
 ; I don't remember. You know, it's where Jim Cochran's used to be, I don't know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:38
 ; Ralph Bird Motors (ph)?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 02:39
 ; No.
 ; Linda's father had a body shop with his brother. Her uncle did the motor work, and her father did the body work. He also worked at Cunningham Chevrolet for a while. Her father ended up working at the golf course for 20 years. He was the superintendent and golf pro. Jim Cochran ; Ralph Byrd Motors ; Cunningham Chevrolet ; Golf course ; Florida ; Bill Boerstler Work 0 291 Nearby Family Regan Siler 04:51
 ; Oh, okay, well, that's you've just, you've kind of, it's just between the golf course and the school and everything. Okay. That's neat. So, growing up, did you have a lot of families, family that lived nearby? And if so, who?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 05:12
 ; My dad's brothers, two of his brothers, lived here, but everybody on my mom's side lived in New Mexico or Amarillo, Texas.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 05:26
 ; Okay, so, like, I guess historically speaking, has your dad's side always been in the Bristow area? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 05:34
 ; Yes.
 ; Linda had family from her father's side here in Bristow. Her mother's side of the family lived in New Mexico or Amarillo, Texas. New Mexico ; Amarillo (Tex.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Family 0 339 Early Childhood Regan Siler 05:39
 ; Just ever. Okay, has your fam, okay, yeah, so, okay, well, let's talk about your early childhood. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that maybe you played when you were young?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 06:04
 ; Well, we played outside a lot, and we played tag and hide and seek. stuff like that.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 06:14
 ; So you were more of an outside kid?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 06:16
 ; Yeah, we didn't get to stay inside. We lived over here on Fifth and Elm and there was a lot of kids, and we had a lot that we could go up about two or three houses, and we'd all meet there and play football and ball and baseball and all that kind of stuff. I remember going to Trigalet's liquor store and standing at the door and asking Mrs. Trigalet if her kids could go somewhere with us.
 ; Linda Kay enjoyed playing outside as a child. She played tag and hide and seek. She played ball and rode bicycles with her friends. Linda Kay also had a large collection of Barbie dolls and accessories. Mrs. Trigalet ; Barbie ; eBay (Firm) Childhood 0 499 Chores Regan Siler 08:19
 ; That's funny. So did you have any chores that you were expected to do as a young person? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 08:25
 ; Um, when we were at the golf course, we did, well, let me back up. When we lived in town, we all had our own clippers, and that's how you did your edging on your sidewalk. Tommy, BT, and I would have our own and my dad would mow, and we'd have to go along and clip around the edge, you know, of the sidewalk. And we got to stay outside after dark, because we had street light and play. But when my mom whistled, we knew we better run, because it was time to come home. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:55
 ; My goodness!
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 08:56
 ; Yeah. And when we went to the golf course. Yes, we all had chores out there working because my brothers helped my dad and I helped my mom.
 ; Linda Kay and her brothers were expected to help with the yard work. They each had their own set of clippers and worked on edging along the sidewalk. They also helped out at the golf course when their family moved there. Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman ; golf course Chores 0 547 Friends Regan Siler 09:07
 ; Okay, okay, um, so I was going to ask that you, obviously, had friends that would come over and play. They would come to your house. You would go to their house, along with playing with your siblings. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 09:20
 ; In the summer, Jill LeForce and I, Jill LeForce Farris, were real good friends. And in the summer, she would stay a week at the golf course with me, and then I got to come to town and stay a week with her.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 09:34
 ; Oh, fun! 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 09:34
 ; Oh, how fun!
 ; Linda Kay and Jill LeForce were great friends growing up. In the summer, Jill would stay for a week with Linda at the golf course and then Linda would go stay at Jill's house for a week. They also shared lunches during school. Jill LeForce Farris ; golf course Friends 0 602 Favorite Activities as a Child Regan Siler 10:02
 ; Yeah, yeah, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a young person?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 10:08
 ; I liked to play golf. I've always played, you know, since I was young. I let Rosemary and Myra Kemp taught me how to sew, and I'd go home with Myra Kemp on Sundays and after church, and she would teach Susan, and then [indecipherable] and I how to sew, and I still have my little apron I made. Oh, and I was a little girl, and we got to come to town and run up down Main Street, you know. I remember gas would be a quarter, and so we'd all pitch our money together and drive till we were almost empty, and then we just sit, sit somewhere and watch everybody else go by.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:50
 ; Park! Do you remember collecting anything as a child other than maybe, Barbies, that your mom got for you? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 11:01
 ; No, not really.
 ; Linda has always enjoyed playing golf, even when she was young. Rosemary LeForce and Myra Kemp also taught Linda how to sew. Linda would sometimes go home with Myra after church on Sundays. Linda still has the little apron she made. Golf ; Rosemary LeForce ; Myra Kemp ; Barbie Activities 0 662 School Regan Siler 11:02
 ; Okay. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. You attended school from start to finish in Bristow, right? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 11:11
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 11:11
 ; Okay, um, do you remember having any particular influential teachers during that time?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 11:18
 ; Well, my first grade teacher, Mrs. Berry, I loved her to death. Her husband was the postmaster or mailman, whatever. And my mom said that I just loved her to pieces, that I cried every day in her class. I did my work and all that, but I really did like her, Mrs. Berry in first grade, and Mrs. Cunningham in sixth grade, and then the rest of - I loved Home EC. So, I loved my Home EC teachers in high school, because I loved to cook and sew.
 ; Linda Kay attended Bristow Schools from start to finish. She loved her first-grade teacher, Mrs. Berry. Linda also loved Home EC because she loved to cook and sew. She would walk home to eat lunch every day. Most of the time, Linda and her brothers walked to and from school. It was a long walk as the lake didn't have the cutover then. Bristow (Okla.) ; Mrs. Berry ; Mrs. Cunningham ; Mrs. Couches ; Edison Elementary School ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman School 0 813 Clubs and Organizations Regan Siler 13:33
 ; That's funny. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations in school?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 13:40
 ; Was in FHA or Home EC.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:48
 ; Who was your FHA teacher? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 13:49
 ; Mrs. Simpson.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:51
 ; Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 13:51
 ; And then I had a Mrs. Foster.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:53
 ; Okay,
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 13:54
 ; Pep club. I was on the boys golf team.
 ; Linda Kay was involved in FHA while in school. Mrs. Simpson was her teacher. She also was part of the pep club. Linda says they didn't have sports when she in school, so she played on the boys' golf team after school. She had to wear dresses to school until she was a senior in high school. Linda also helped Mrs. LeForce in the office as her office aide. She attended vo-tech to be a beautician but did not enjoy it. Future Homemakers of America ; Mrs. Simpson ; Mrs. Foster ; Golf ; High school ; Rosemary LeForce ; Drumright (Okla.) Clubs ; Organizations 0 906 Family Homes Regan Siler 15:06
 ; So, you were figuring out all the things you didn't want to do. Okay, yeah, um, so let's talk a little bit about the houses that you grew up in. So, where was your first house at? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 15:18
 ; At Fifth and Elm. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 15:19
 ; It's where the soil conservation is right now, is that what that is? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:19
 ; Fifth and Elm. Now is, what would you we had talked on the phone earlier, and I can't remember which house it was that you were you had told me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:28
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 15:33
 ; That's where our house was.
 ; Linda started out living with her family in a house on Fifth and Elm. They then moved out to the golf course when her father worked there. The board moved a house from town out there and remodeled it. When her father left the golf course, they moved to a house on Sixth Street. Linda now lives on 10th and Ash. Sixth Street ; Alan Nichols ; Doug Nichols ; Kendra Raney ; Megan Blakeman ; Thomas Rogan Herman Home 0 1060 Grandparents Regan Siler 17:40
 ; Can you tell me what your grandparents names are, just so we'll have that.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 17:43
 ; Loren Frank Thompson [2/13/1895-12/17/1964] and Madge Ingram Thompson [1/24/1900-12/2/1989].
 ; Linda's grandfather's name was Loren Frank Thompson. Her grandmother was Madge Ingram Thompson. Loren Frank Thompson ; Madge Ingram Thompson Grandparents 0 1068 Bedroom Regan Siler 17:48
 ; Okay, okay. So, did you have your own room growing up?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 17:56
 ; Yes, other than at Fifth Street, and I had to share a room with Tommy and BT. They had bunk beds, and then I had a bed of my own.
 ; Linda Kay shared a bedroom with her brothers when they lived on Fifth Street. They had bunk beds, and she had her own bed. After that, Linda had her own bedroom at her other homes. Fifth Street ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman Bedroom 0 1085 Meals as a Family Regan Siler 18:05
 ; And we already know you didn't spend a lot of time in the house. You were usually outside. Well, can you tell me what meal times were like in your family? Did you usually eat together every night? Or what did that look like? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 18:19
 ; My mom and my brothers and I usually ate, but my dad would be at the golf course till we moved out there, and then he would come in, you know, while we were at school, and eat around 1230 and he watched Days of Our Lives every day. He loved Days of Our Lives. He watched it till the day he passed away. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:39
 ; Oh, my goodness, I don't know if he'd want you to be telling that.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 18:45
 ; And then, at night, we would all sit down and eat together at night time, yeah.
 ; Linda ate dinner with her family every night. For lunch, she would eat with her mom and brothers. Her father would be working at the golf course. He would come in about 12:30 everyday while Linda and her brothers were at school. He would watch Days of Our Lives every day and did until he passed away. Days of our lives (Television program) ; golf course ; Benjamin Hill Herman Meals 0 1131 Golf Course Regan Siler 18:51
 ; Okay, so did, I'm guessing your mom cooked the meals, especially since she was the the cook, yeah, like the golf course and stuff? Did you, were you part of the cleanup crew or did she teach you how to cook? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 19:02
 ; No, but she taught me. They'd have steak fries and different things out there, and I would help her. I told her later on that I didn't care if I ever washed another baked potato or cut a head of lettuce.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 19:15
 ; Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 19:16
 ; For a salad, because I was tired of doing that!
 ; Linda had a big part in helping her parents work at the golf course. She helped her mother cook. Linda and her brothers learned how to have a good work ethic. They learned how to respect adults and call them Mr. and Mrs. People still talk about Linda's mother's hamburgers and how good they were. golf course ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman ; King Kong (Motion picture : 1933) ; Benjamin Hill Herman ; Martha Jane Thompson golf course 0 1503 Community Activities Regan Siler 25:03
 ; Well, thinking about town life and growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities? And so I, for instance, like, maybe, you know, Western Heritage Day?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 25:15
 ; We loved Western Heritage days. We would dress up and we got to take a little cap gun downtown. I used to get mad at the boys because they'd have a pea shooter, and they'd shoot, you know, pea shooters at us, you know, and stuff like that, but we'd have a cap gun, and we'd be dressed all in our little western skirts or jeans and chaps and boots, you know. Mom always made sure we had a little cowboy hat.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 25:38
 ; So, that was a big deal for you guys. So, did you do the rodeo and all of that stuff, too? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 25:43
 ; Just go and watch. Yeah, we'd be downtown all day long. And parades, we were always in a parade. Tommy, I know one a parade, one time, he had his goldfish in a bowl, and he'd put it in a wagon, and he had us pulling his Bull Shoals or bust. I remember he won. You know, I don't remember what parade it was.
 ; Linda Kay loved Western Heritage Days growing up. Her and her brothers would dress up in their western gear and have a cap gun. Linda also loved the city pool as a child. It was called the Silver Plunge. She enjoyed day camp and also became a counselor when she got a little older. Western Heritage Days ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman ; The Silver Plunge ; Day camps ; Tommy Parish ; Larry Parish Community Activities 0 1667 Businesses Around Town Regan Siler 27:47
 ; Not that, not that stuck out to you anyway. Okay, um, do you remember some of the like, the biggest or most popular or your favorite businesses around town growing up?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 28:01
 ; OD Thorpe's Grocery [Thorpe's Food Store]. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:04
 ; Oh, no, that's not what I've heard of, OD Thorpe's [Thorpe's Food Store]. Where was that located? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 28:08
 ; It was right across from Community Bank. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:13
 ; Okay.
 ; Linda recalls some of the businesses that were around Bristow when she was young. Her mother shopped for groceries at Thorpe's. Linda said the owner always gave the children hot dogs to eat. She enjoyed going to Strong's Department Dry Goods and shopping for shoes. Linda's grandmother shopped for Linda at Stanford's. She bought Linda little dresses, shoes, socks and purses for church. Linda Kay enjoyed eating at Highway Cafe. Thorpe's Food Store ; Community Bank ; Strong's Department Dry Goods ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Wal-Mart (Firm) ; Turnpike ; Stanford's ; Highway Cafe ; Zane Goodwin ; Phyllis Holcomb ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman ; J& ; J Business 0 1864 Teenage Life Regan Siler 31:04
 ; Oh, that's funny. Um, well, as a teenager, where were where was the hangout? Where was the happenin', like, what did you do as a teenager? Where'd you hang out? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 31:13
 ; Well, we drove up down Main Street, and we'd go down to 7-11, which is Kum & ; Go, and then we'd go back up, and we'd go through Thurman's Motel trying to get caught, to go through there because you weren't supposed to, you know. Then there was a gas station where 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:30
 ; Trying not to get caught, or trying
 ; Linda Kay enjoyed driving up and down Main Street with her friends when she was a teen. She also would hang out at the gas stations. Linda and her friends would try to run the Depew girls out of town because they would try to get the Bristow boys. Main Street ; Kum & ; Go ; Depew (Okla.) ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman Teenage Life 0 2079 Family Car Regan Siler 34:39
 ; Oh, that's funny, um, do you remember your first family car?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 34:50
 ; Yeah, my dad always, always had a station wagon. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:53
 ; A station wagon.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 34:54
 ; It was beige and had brown paneling down the side of it.
 ; 
 ; Linda says her family always had a station wagon. It was beige with brown paneling down the side of it. Linda says her mom was typically the one driving her places since her dad was busy working. Station wagons Automobile 0 2118 Vacations Regan Siler 35:18
 ; That was my next question is, did you ever get to go on vacation? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 35:22
 ; And it was either to Amarillo [Texas] to my mom's sisters or to Kansas, which was still on my mom's side, but they were big dairy farmers in Kansas, and we'd get to go up there and do the milking, and then they got electric milkers, and we just thought that was cool, you know, yeah.
 ; Linda Kay says that her family typically didn't vacation in the summers because that was the busy time at the golf course. When they did vacation, they would go to Amarillo, Texas or Kansas. They would visit family. In Kansas the family were dairy farmers, and Linda would get to help with the milking. Vacation ; Amarillo (Tex.) ; Kansas Vacation 0 2145 Learning to Drive Regan Siler 35:45
 ; So, do you remember who taught you how to drive?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 35:50
 ; Jack Snorgrass (ph). Pat Lewis's grandfather, he had no van, and he'd take Pat and I on Sundays out in the country and let us drive his old van. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:59
 ; So, it was just a family friend that taught you how to drive? Were your parents too scared? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 36:04
 ; No, my mom, she was good about it. She and I would go drive on country roads a lot and stuff. And then my cousin came up from Amarillo in a Volkswagen, and I wanted to drive the Volkswagen. It was a standard. She goes, teach yourself how to do it. So, I taught myself how to do that, you know.
 ; Linda says that Pat Lewis's grandfather would take her and Pat out in the country to practice driving. Linda's mother would also take Linda out driving. Linda's cousin came from Amarillo in a Volkswagen. It was a standard and Linda taught herself how to drive it. Linda's first car was a Ford Galaxie. Jack Snorgrass ; Pat Lewis ; Volkswagen automobiles ; Ford Galaxie ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Christmas ; Bill Wilkerson Drive 0 2258 Entertainment Regan Siler 37:38
 ; Yeah, exactly. Um, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? I know you said you were outside a lot or whatever, but did you, did you watch TV? And if you did, like, what was your favorite program?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 37:53
 ; I remember watching Big Bill & ; Oom-A-Gog on TV. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 37:57
 ; What? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 37:58
 ; Yeah, Big Bill & ; Oom-A-Gog. And it was a, I think it was on channel two in Tulsa. I got to go there when I was in Girl Scouts.
 ; Linda Kay remembers watching a show called Big Bill & ; Oom-A-Gog. It was a show about a robot. Linda got to go and be on the show when she part of the Girl Scouts. Her family also watched a lot of golf on television. Big Bill & ; Oom-A-Gog ; Television ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Girl Scouts Entertainment 0 2311 Pivotal Historical Moments Regan Siler 38:31
 ; Do you recall witnessing any like pivotal events on TV? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 38:36
 ; I remember sitting in Rosemary LeForce's bed when Mr. President Kennedy got shot. I remember sitting and Jill and I'd sit and we watched all that, you know, and stuff and.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:51
 ; So, about how, how old would you have been? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 38:56
 ; Maybe, do you remember when he got shot? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:59
 ; No, I don't. Well, so I guess, do you remember how you felt, like, how that made you feel at the time? Just, you were just, yeah.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:10
 ; I just knew the president got shot.
 ; Linda remembers that she was sitting in Rosemary LeForce's bed when President Kennedy was shot. She was with her friend, Jill. Rosemary LeForce ; Jill LeForce Farris ; John F. Kennedy Historical Moments 0 2352 Music Regan Siler 39:12
 ; You were just interested in, in, in what happened. Um, did you enjoy listening to music growing up?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:18
 ; Nah, I didn't.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:20
 ; You didn't?! I can't believe how many people say that they don't, they didn't really listen to much music. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:26
 ; Yeah, no. I mean, if I was in the car, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:29
 ; So, you didn't have, like, a favorite artist or favorite record you listen to, or anything like that? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:34
 ; Well, I love Kenny Rogers. I love to listen to Kenny Rogers. And, you know, back then we played a record player a lot, you know. And I had an album and albums of different, you know, ones, but Kenny Rogers was probably my favorite.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:50
 ; Your favorite.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:51
 ; I think because he looked like Dr Krug. And I thought doctor was very handsome.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:56
 ; Oh, that's funny.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 39:58
 ; I used to tell Susie all the time, oh, I just look at him and think of Kenny Rogers.
 ; Linda wasn't big into music but did listen to some if she was in the car. She really loved Kenny Rogers. She thought he looked like Dr. Krug. Linda thought Dr. Krug was very handsome. Kenny Rogers ; Dr. Krug Music 0 2404 Medical Care Regan Siler 40:04
 ; Oh, that's a good one. Well, that's a good transition into what was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 40:13
 ; Yes, I had Dr. Norfleet (ph) and Dr. Chapman [Frank D. Chapman 1/26/1934-12/13/2020] and
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 40:21
 ; Did you go to the doctor much? Or did you guys typically handle things at home? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 40:26
 ; We didn't, I don't remember going to the doctor a whole lot.
 ; Linda Kay says her family doctors growing up were Dr. Norfleet and Dr. Chapman. She doesn't remember going to the doctor often though. Linda remembers when she had the chicken pox. Her mother said all she could get Linda to swallow was a peanut butter sandwich soaked in milk. Dr. Norfleet ; Frank D. Chapman ; Chicken pox Medical care 0 2473 Church Regan Siler 41:13
 ; Um, did you attend church growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 41:16
 ; First Presbyterian Church.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 41:17
 ; First Presbyterian, um, that's the gray church, isn't it? Yes, yes. Um, so what was it like? What do you remember about attending church there can, like
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 41:27
 ; We, we went every Sunday, and, 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 41:30
 ; Like, your whole, did your whole family go? Or, 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 41:33
 ; Yeah, my dad, you know, never could go. He did after, you know, he retired and stuff. But my grandmother and granddad Thompson went there, and we would go, and we were all three in the angel choir, and my mom was in the choir. And it was a lot of fun going. There were a lot of kids, and we just walked from Fifth Street, you know, over there. And my grandparents were real big into the church.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:00
 ; And, so, that was where you had always gone?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 42:03
 ; Yeah.
 ; Linda attended the First Presbyterian Church growing up. Linda and her friends would walk there when she lived on Fifth Street. Linda was in the angel choir. First Presbyterian Church ; Loren Frank Thompson ; Madge Ingram Thompson Church 0 2523 Holidays Regan Siler 42:03
 ; Okay, okay, um, what were holidays like in your family? We can start with Christmas, because that's usually always the big one. Tell me what a typical Christmas was like at your house?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 42:17
 ; We pretty much got everything we wanted, but that would be the only time my mom would go out at Christmas, not birthday, Easter, any of that. But Christmas 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:28
 ; Was a big deal. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 42:29
 ; It was a big deal. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:31
 ; And do you remember what it was like decorations like, tell me, like, what your house.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 42:36
 ; My dad would always go buy two trees and drill holes and put branches into another tree to make it bereal full.
 ; Christmas was a big deal in Linda's family. Her mother went all out. Linda says her father would buy two trees and put them together so their Christmas tree would be really full. Linda would go to her grandmother Thompson's house for Thanksgiving. Christmas ; Easter ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman ; Thanksgiving ; 4th of July Holidays 0 2671 Child Dreams Regan Siler 44:31
 ; Sounds like they went on they, yeah, they went out with a bang on Christmas. Yeah. Well, that's neat, yeah. Um, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 44:43
 ; Yes, I wanted to attend OU [University of Oklahoma] and be on the girls golf team, and then be a golf pro. And I didn't do any of that, other than play golf.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 44:53
 ; Well, I mean, you're, you're in the realm there. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 44:57
 ; That's what, and I found my little deal that I wrote not too long ago in school for some class, and that's what I wanted to do, was go to OU and.
 ; Linda dreamed of attending OU and being on the girls' golf team and being a golf pro. She says she didn't do any of that other than playing golf. Christmas ; University of Oklahoma ; Golf Dreams 0 2707 Golf Regan Siler 45:07
 ; So, when did you, let's talk about the golf course more in depth, and like the effect that it had on your life. Obviously, it sounded like it was a very cool place to grow up, and you have a lot of good memories there. When did you actually start playing golf? Did your is your dad, the one that was instrumental in getting you to?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 45:26
 ; Yes, yes. I started as soon as we moved out there. I was in the fourth grade.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:31
 ; Fourth grade.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 45:32
 ; And I started playing then. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:34
 ; Did you immediately love it? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 45:36
 ; Oh yeah. And my dad used to make us hit 100 golf balls in a circle whenever we'd practice.
 ; Linda Kay started playing golf when she was in the fourth grade and her family moved to the golf course. Her father made Linda and her brothers practice constantly. Linda loved growing up on the golf course and has great memories of her time living there. Golf ; Golf Course ; Florida ; Korean War ; Thomas Rogan Herman ; Benny Taylor Herman Golf 0 2899 Jobs Regan Siler 48:19
 ; Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it. Well, let's talk a little bit about your different jobs you've had during your life. I know we talked about that a little bit on the phone. I know you said you started at the drive in and that's how you paid for your car.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 48:33
 ; Started at the drive in theater, and then I went and worked for Edmond and Sherian [Slyman] catering, and I also helped them at the tabouli shop that they had. And I worked for, I was Corinne Dial's first employee at Little People School. And then I left there, and I went to the school in '79 and worked for the school for 41 years.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 49:02
 ; Forty-one years! So, you saw a lot of kids grow up in that time. 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 49:08
 ; Regan, kids to this day your age, hey, Ms. Linda Kay! I go you don't have to call me Ms. Linda Kay. You will always be Ms. Linda Kay.
 ; Linda's first job was working at the concession stand at the drive-in theater. Her next job was working for Edmond and Sherian Slyman's catering business. She also worked in their tabouli shop. Linda was Corinne Dial's first employee at Little People School. Linda then went to work at Bristow School in 1979 and was there for 41 years. She is retired now but has since started managing at the golf course. Drive-in theaters ; Edmond Slyman ; Sherian Slyman ; Corinne Dial ; Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; golf course ; Brian Pinson ; Gary Graham Jobs 0 3051 Work at the School Regan Siler 50:51
 ; Yeah. Well, before we get off of that, I've got to circle back to the school. I know that. I mean, my gosh, 41 years, that's a long time. And this is probably a loaded question, because there's probably tons of stories, but what did you, what did you get out of that, being there, because I feel like you're, you're like, the, oh, I don't know, like the
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 51:16
 ; You see, a lot of personalities. Well, take you, for instance, your kids act just like you, you know, you see that, and they would come and go, Linda Kay, do you remember Regan when she was in school? Does Chad act just like she did, yeah, you know, or you know, they you just see a lot of it. I mean, I used to tell Judy Vice, I think we have seen grandparents now.
 ; Linda fell in love with a lot of kids during her time at the school. She felt so sorry for some of the children and wished she could take them home. She would even pick some children up for school when the parents had a hard time getting them to go. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Judy Vice ; Debbie Ponder School 0 3466 Important Invention Regan Siler 57:46
 ; Well, to kind of change things up a little bit. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 57:59
 ; Well, I'm gonna say it is the difference in golf clubs.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 58:05
 ; Of course, that would be your answer!
 ; Linda Kay believes the most important invention in her lifetime has been the change in golf clubs. She has her grandfather's golf clubs and they were all wooden shaft. golf clubs Invention 0 3555 How the World is Different Regan Siler 59:15
 ; Okay, that's a that's a fair answer. Well, how do you feel the world is different than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 59:24
 ; When I was a child, it was very enjoyable. People got along. You know, you weren't scared of anything. You left your doors open at night. Your windows up and all that. And I feel like life now, you're scared to death all the time. You know, you can't do, you're just constantly looking behind to see what's going on and 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 59:48
 ; Right, no, I hear that.
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 59:51
 ; Growing up as a kid was wonderful.
 ; Linda Kay feels like the world is different than when she was young. She said it was enjoyable then and people got along. She said they weren't scared of anything and left their doors open and their windows up. Linda also says that we lack discipline in children now. Discipline World 0 3640 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 1:00:40
 ; Oh, that's funny. Well, what this might be along the same line, but what do you feel our nation's biggest problems are, and how do you think they can be solved?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:00:51
 ; Oh, gosh, politics, I think this is our biggest problem, and to fix it, I don't know. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:01:01
 ; Wipe it all out and start over, maybe?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:01:04
 ; Something, but I, I wish the economy and stuff would be better, you know. And I know it'll never get back to 25 cents a gallon for gas, you know, like what it was. And, you know, go and buy a bill of groceries for $50 and you pay $200 now, you know, stuff like that.
 ; Linda Kay thinks that our economy is our biggest problem in America. She says groceries, gas and childcare are so high that it makes it tough for young families. Economy ; Coop's Nation 0 3768 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:02:48
 ; Yes, no, I understand. How have historic events affected you? For instance, well, like we talked about JFK getting shot, but like maybe the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, COVID, natural disasters. Have any of those things affected you in your life? Do you remember or can you think of? 
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:03:09
 ; No, I think about the bombing. It happened on my brother's birthday. And so I think about it every year. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:15
 ; Which one the Oklahoma City or?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:03:17
 ; Yes, the Oklahoma City bombing. So, I think about it, you know. And I was at school when that happened. I think when I really got to where I was watching my back a lot, even at school, is when Eisenberger [Scott Eizember]
 ; Linda Kay remembers when the Oklahoma City Bombing happened. It was on her brother's birthday, and she was at the school at the time. She says when she really started watching her back is when the police were searching for Scott Eizember. She says you have to be aware, but she doesn't live in fear. Oklahoma City bombing ; Scott Eizember ; golf course Historic Events 0 3878 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:04:38
 ; You definitely have to be aware today. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you would like to share with us, or maybe any wisdom that you would like to share that you've learned through your life that you want to pass on for your great nieces and nephews to hear one day?
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:05:05
 ; Take care of yourself. Live a good life. Have fun and enjoy it and play golf!
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:05:14
 ; That's how she's gonna end this interview, play golf!
 ; 
 ; Linda Herman 1:05:17
 ; Play golf! Swing that club. It's good exercise.
 ; Linda finishes the interview with some wisdom. She says to take care of yourself and live a good life. She also says to have fun and enjoy it and play golf. Golf ; Bristow Train Depot and Museum ; Wisdom Wisdom 0 MP4 Linda Kay Herman, born on June 20, 1955, in Bristow, Oklahoma, shared her life story which included spending her childhood at the golf course her dad managed. She recounted her early life, including her favorite childhood activities, school experiences, and the influence of her parents and community. Linda discussed her career, which included working at a drive-in theater, catering, and working at Bristow Public Schools for 41 years. She emphasized the changes in society, particularly in discipline and economics, and her love for golf, which began in her childhood. Regan Siler This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 15, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Linda Kay Herman at the Bristow Library Annex. She is going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. And I did forget to say, make sure your phone is off. Okay, alright. Can you please state your full name? Linda Herman Linda Kay Herman. Regan Siler Okay, and do I have permission to record this interview? Linda Herman Yes, ma'am. Regan Siler Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? Linda Herman I was born at the Bristow Memorial Hospital, June 20, 1955. I was the 66th baby born in that hospital. Regan Siler And how do you know you were the 66th baby? Linda Herman It says on my hospital certificate. Regan Siler So, it actually says that on your birth certificate? Number 66, huh? So, did you just find that out recently, or have you always known that? Linda Herman No, I found it out looking through my baby book for my birth certificate to get my driver's license that you have to have now. Regan Siler Right, right. Well, how funny. I wonder if they did that on every I wonder if they did that on every baby? Linda Herman I don't know. Regan Siler I wonder who number one was? Linda Herman Barbara Livesay. Regan Siler Oh, really, you actually know that?! That's funny! Okay, well, can you tell us a little bit about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. What are your parents full names? Linda Herman Benjamin Hill ("BH") Herman [1/30/1923-6/11/2016] is my father. Martha Jane Thompson Herman [6/4/1929-4/11/2003] was my mother. Regan Siler Okay. And I have it, now, did your dad go by BH? Linda Herman Mm-hmm. Regan Siler Okay, and I have his date of birth as 1/30/1923. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler Okay. And then for your mom, I have her date of birth as 6/4/1929. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler Okay, alright. And then do you have any siblings? Linda Herman Yes, I have a older brother, Thomas Rogan Herman. He goes by Tommy. And a younger brother, Benny Taylor Herman, and he goes by BT. Regan Siler Okay, um, what type of work did your parents do? Linda Herman My dad had a body shop with his brother. Regan Siler And what was the name, and what was the name of that? Linda Herman I don't remember. You know, it's where Jim Cochran's used to be, I don't know. Regan Siler Ralph Bird Motors (ph)? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler That wasn't it? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler Was that another place that he worked? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler No? Linda Herman No. He worked at Cunningham Chevrolet for a while. And then he and his brother had their own body shop, and Taylor did the motor work, and dad did the body work. Then he went to the golf course, and was the superintendent and golf pro at the golf course for 20 years. Regan Siler So, how long has the this, I'm getting off track, but I know golf is like a huge part has always been a huge part of your life. How long has the golf course been there? Linda Herman They built it in 1922 and it opened in 1923. Regan Siler And did the, did the city build it? Or do Linda Herman The city has always, they own the land, and they have always, as far as I know, has owned the land, and they lease it to a board of directors. Regan Siler And it's been since 1922. Wow. Okay, so, and we'll go, we'll go back to golf, because I know that's a big, a big part of your life. Um, so your dad, he primarily worked, so how long would you say he worked in like that, being an auto body guy? Linda Herman Well, we moved to the golf course when I was in fourth grade, so Regan Siler So, you actually moved, you lived at the golf course? Okay. Linda Herman He was in the Air Force first. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman And him and my mom lived in Florida, but I couldn't. Regan Siler Okay. That's okay. That's okay. And then, so, did your mom work outside the home? Linda Herman Yes, she worked for Bill Boerstler in his business that he had. And then when we went to the golf course, she ran the pro shop and had a little restaurant where she cooked hamburgers for everybody. And thenwhen my dad retired, she went to work and was the secretary of middle school for 19 years until she retired. Regan Siler Oh, okay, well, that's you've just, you've kind of, it's just between the golf course and the school and everything. Okay. That's neat. So, growing up, did you have a lot of families, family that lived nearby? And if so, who? Linda Herman My dad's brothers, two of his brothers, lived here, but everybody on my mom's side lived in New Mexico or Amarillo, Texas. Regan Siler Okay, so, like, I guess historically speaking, has your dad's side always been in the Bristow area? Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler For, do you know, like, how long? Linda Herman Ever. Regan Siler Forever? Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler Just ever. Okay, has your fam, okay, yeah, so, okay, well, let's talk about your early childhood. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that maybe you played when you were young? Linda Herman Well, we played outside a lot, and we played tag and hide and seek. stuff like that. Regan Siler So you were more of an outside kid? Linda Herman Yeah, we didn't get to stay inside. We lived over here on Fifth and Elm and there was a lot of kids, and we had a lot that we could go up about two or three houses, and we'd all meet there and play football and ball and baseball and all that kind of stuff. I remember going to Trigalet's liquor store and standing at the door and asking Mrs. Trigalet if her kids could go somewhere with us. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. Linda Herman And but we just ride up and down Fifth Street on our bicycles and stuff. I think I had every Barbie doll, every bit of clothes that Barbie had, and always wanted to play with the trucks and stuff with my brothers, but my mom and my grandma made sure I had every. Regan Siler You had all the Barbie stuff. Linda Herman And I know something earlier, when you said something, I remember, I had the 55th, 57th Barbie Doll made when I was it was tattooed on her bottom. Regan Siler Please tell me you still have it. Linda Herman Oh no. I sold them all on Ebay. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Linda Herman All of her clothes and everything. Regan Siler I was a big Barbie fan, too, whenever I was young. I feel like I had, I was like, you I had the big house and all the Barbies and the clothes, yeah. Linda Herman And I really didn't want to play with it, but I did, because I knew my mom wanted me to. And something else growing up, the Trigalets, there was quite a few in their family, and they'd come down and they'd eat with us, and my mom would just put slices of bread all across the counter, you know, and just start putting mayonnaise and bologna. And she would always come to Annette and go, she'd go, Mrs. Herman, I didn't get any bologna. I'll have his mayonnaise. Because there were so many, mom had to make so many sandwiches. Regan Siler Like an assembly line, and forget a couple. Regan Siler Yeah, somebody would always just get a mayonnaise sandwich. Regan Siler That's funny. So did you have any chores that you were expected to do as a young person? Linda Herman Um, when we were at the golf course, we did, well, let me back up. When we lived in town, we all had our own clippers, and that's how you did your edging on your sidewalk. Tommy, BT, and I would have our own and my dad would mow, and we'd have to go along and clip around the edge, you know, of the sidewalk. And we got to stay outside after dark, because we had street light and play. But when my mom whistled, we knew we better run, because it was time to come home. Regan Siler My goodness! Linda Herman Yeah. And when we went to the golf course. Yes, we all had chores out there working because my brothers helped my dad and I helped my mom. Regan Siler Okay, okay, um, so I was going to ask that you, obviously, had friends that would come over and play. They would come to your house. You would go to their house, along with playing with your siblings. Linda Herman In the summer, Jill LeForce and I, Jill LeForce Farris, were real good friends. And in the summer, she would stay a week at the golf course with me, and then I got to come to town and stay a week with her. Regan Siler Oh, fun! Regan Siler Oh, how fun! Linda Herman And then during school, my mom would buy lunch meat and for one week, and I'd walk up 10th Street hill with her, because we, you know, we didn't want to eat in the cafeteria, and we would share lunches like that, you know. Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler So, you had a, you had a very,sounds like, a classic growing, growing up in a small town. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a young person? Linda Herman I liked to play golf. I've always played, you know, since I was young. I let Rosemary and Myra Kemp taught me how to sew, and I'd go home with Myra Kemp on Sundays and after church, and she would teach Susan, and then [indecipherable] and I how to sew, and I still have my little apron I made. Oh, and I was a little girl, and we got to come to town and run up down Main Street, you know. I remember gas would be a quarter, and so we'd all pitch our money together and drive till we were almost empty, and then we just sit, sit somewhere and watch everybody else go by. Regan Siler Park! Do you remember collecting anything as a child other than maybe, Barbies, that your mom got for you? Linda Herman No, not really. Regan Siler Okay. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. You attended school from start to finish in Bristow, right? Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler Okay, um, do you remember having any particular influential teachers during that time? Linda Herman Well, my first grade teacher, Mrs. Berry, I loved her to death. Her husband was the postmaster or mailman, whatever. And my mom said that I just loved her to pieces, that I cried every day in her class. I did my work and all that, but I really did like her, Mrs. Berry in first grade, and Mrs. Cunningham in sixth grade, and then the rest of - I loved Home EC. So, I loved my Home EC teachers in high school, because I loved to cook and sew. Regan Siler So, what do you remember why you cried in first grade if you loved your teacher? Linda Herman No, just, I don't know, because I went to Mrs. Couches (ph) play school, because we didn't have preschool, pre K or kindergarten, we went straight to first grade, and I had never been anywhere exept with my mom. Regan Siler So that was a new set, mom, right? That was a new set up for you. Linda Herman Yeah, so. Regan Siler Well, she must have made a impact if you felt, you know you have that love towards her or whatever to feel comfortable, because it is hard. That's a big transition when you're used to, yeah, being with mom all the time. Linda Herman Stay with mom till you know you have to go to school. Regan Siler Right. Um, so do you remember how you got to school as a youngster? Linda Herman We walked. Regan Siler You always walked, okay. Linda Herman We lived on Fifth Street, so we just walked right up here to Edison. And then when we got older, we could walk home for lunch, but then we had to turn around, walk back. And then when we got in middle school and high school, my mom and dad were at the golf course, and mom couldn't come get us if they were busy at the golf course and the bus wouldn't take us, so we'd have to walk. We'd have to go all the way around the lake because it didn't have the cutover or the new housing addition then. So there was many times that we had to walk home. Regan Siler You definitely got your your exercise when you were young, didn't you? Linda Herman You know, y'all probably know if you have an older brother. Tommy used to make BT and I lay down in the back seat of his car when he got a car because he didn't want to see his brother and sister. You know in the car. I have to take my brother and sister somewhere. Regan Siler That's funny. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations in school? Linda Herman Was in FHA or Home EC. Regan Siler Who was your FHA teacher? Linda Herman Mrs. Simpson. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman And then I had a Mrs. Foster. Regan Siler Okay, Linda Herman Pep club. I was on the boys golf team. Regan Siler Oh, you were? Linda Herman Yes, we didn't have sports when I was in school, so after school, I would go out and play. And I did get to participate on the boys golf team when I was in school. Regan Siler So, they didn't have golf or anything like that when Linda Herman We had no sports. We had to wear a dress to school every day until I was a senior in high school. Regan Siler No sports? My gosh, you're not that old! Linda Herman Yeah, I'm almost 70! Well, we had no sports. Regan Siler Wow. Okay, um, so did you enjoy school? Linda Herman Nah. Linda Herman No. I didn't want to be there. I wanted to be out. Regan Siler You didn't? Regan Siler You would rather be out. Linda Herman On the golf course or, yeah, I went. I mean, I had fun, but I would, you know, if I had a choice, I would Regan Siler You wouldn't be there. So, did you have a favorite subject other than maybe FHA? Linda Herman I loved Rosemary LeForce, and I loved being her office aide. And I went to vo-tech in Drumright [Oklahoma] to be a beautician. I hated that. Regan Siler So, you were figuring out all the things you didn't want to do. Okay, yeah, um, so let's talk a little bit about the houses that you grew up in. So, where was your first house at? Linda Herman At Fifth and Elm. Linda Herman It's where the soil conservation is right now, is that what that is? Regan Siler Fifth and Elm. Now is, what would you we had talked on the phone earlier, and I can't remember which house it was that you were you had told me. Regan Siler Yes. Linda Herman That's where our house was. Regan Siler But now, is that the one that you were telling me about that they what was it they hauled in a bunch ofdirt. No, that was on Sixth. Okay, okay, so you, you go ahead start from Linda Herman So, I lived at Fifth and Elm, okay, in a little house there, and then my dad went to the golf course, and the board moved a house from town out there and remodeled it, and we lived in that house. Then when my dad left the golf course, we went to my grandparents house on Sixth Street, 508 West Sixth Street, and we lived there and take took care of my grandmother. My mom and dad took care of my grandmother. Then, I moved up on 10th and Asj, where I live now. Regan Siler Okay, so, but can you, it seems like you had told me a story about the house on Sixth. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler When they were trying, did your dad build that house? Linda Herman No, my grandfather Thompson. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman Built the house in 1922. Regan Siler So, tell me, tell me that story. Linda Herman Um, he built the house in 1922 and it was a little spring that ran through Sixth Street, and he hired a gentleman and paid him $1.50 a day to haul dirt in there to fill that spring in so he could build the house. And he built this house, and him and two bachelors lived in the basement, because it has a full basement with bathrooms and everything down there. And then he married my grandmother in 1923 and they moved upstairs and the bachelors moved out. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Linda Herman So, it's been in our family since 1922 other than my dad sold it to Alan Nichols, and then Alan sold it to his dad, Doug. And then Doug sold it to Kendra Raney and Megan Blakeman. And then my older brother Tommy bought it back from Kendra. Regan Siler Oh, okay, so it's back in the family! Oh, that's so neat. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler So, that house holds a lot of history for you. Linda Herman Oh, yeah. Regan Siler Can you tell me what your grandparents names are, just so we'll have that. Linda Herman Loren Frank Thompson [2/13/1895-12/17/1964] and Madge Ingram Thompson [1/24/1900-12/2/1989]. Regan Siler Okay, okay. So, did you have your own room growing up? Linda Herman Yes, other than at Fifth Street, and I had to share a room with Tommy and BT. They had bunk beds, and then I had a bed of my own. Regan Siler And we already know you didn't spend a lot of time in the house. You were usually outside. Well, can you tell me what meal times were like in your family? Did you usually eat together every night? Or what did that look like? Linda Herman My mom and my brothers and I usually ate, but my dad would be at the golf course till we moved out there, and then he would come in, you know, while we were at school, and eat around 1230 and he watched Days of Our Lives every day. He loved Days of Our Lives. He watched it till the day he passed away. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness, I don't know if he'd want you to be telling that. Linda Herman And then, at night, we would all sit down and eat together at night time, yeah. Regan Siler Okay, so did, I'm guessing your mom cooked the meals, especially since she was the the cook, yeah, like the golf course and stuff? Did you, were you part of the cleanup crew or did she teach you how to cook? Linda Herman No, but she taught me. They'd have steak fries and different things out there, and I would help her. I told her later on that I didn't care if I ever washed another baked potato or cut a head of lettuce. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Linda Herman For a salad, because I was tired of doing that! Regan Siler Right! Linda Herman But I didn't like being in there. One da I told my dad, I just want to be outside with you and BT and Tommy. Well, get out here. So, he had me pulling weeds off of a green and I was allergic to them, and I broke out, so I never got to do that anymore. Regan Siler So, that cured you of doing that. Linda Herman Yeah. So we never got allowance. We if we worked, then they would give us stuff to go to the movie or something like that, you know, yeah. Regan Siler Well, so looking back, do you, are you, I know you probably didn't love it at the time, but are you glad that your mom, you know, taught you how to cook? Linda Herman Yes, because I love to cook. I love to cook. I love to sew. Regan Siler I think sometimes it takes us as young people to have a little perspective or life before we realize, yes, to appreciate the things that our, we might not have loved at the time as kids or whatever, but that, I think, benefit us greatly as we're older. Linda Herman Yeah, yeah. Tommy and BT, they would get real upset with my dad, you know, out there working and have to go rake all the sand traps, you know, and stuff like that. But, you know, they look back now and, you know, they we, they taught us a lot. Regan Siler Work ethic, yes. Linda Herman And I, you know, I get real upset with some of these kids that just think, it's give me, give me, give me, you know. You gotta do what I had to do growing up, yeah. The golf course was a fantastic place to grow up, you know. And you learned it was Mr. and Mrs. and all that stuff. Regan Siler And you knew how to talk to people you got, yeah. Linda Herman And back when my dad did it, there was a lot of oil men and lawyers, and they had a lot of money out there, you know. And my dad was well taken care of by these gentlemen out there and stuff. But it was, I mean, I would have raised a kid out there for sure. Regan Siler Well, so do, I would think that, especially, being in that time frame that trying to care for a golf course was probably way harder, yes, than what it is today. Linda Herman Because they don't have, you know, my dad Regan Siler The equipment. Linda Herman He had to walk to mow the greens. Now they ride. You know, he did have a fairway mower to mow the fairways, but, yeah, he had to walk every green, some every day during the summer, because that grass just grows and grows and grows. Regan Siler So his job was probably 24/7 pretty much. Linda Herman Yeah, and we, we'd get up in the middle of the night with him and go change sprinklers. I do want to tell you a funny story. Regan Siler You go right ahead. Linda Herman One time it was my turn to go with him. Regan Siler And so did he take you to because you were helpful for him or because you wanted to go? Linda Herman So he wouldn't be by himself. It'd be like midnight, oh, one o'clock in the morning, you know? And we just, well, actually, I got two funny stories, but he said, he always called me Boo Boo. Boo Boo, you wanna go tonight? Yeah, I'd love to go to, dad. And so we went. We got up on number three, and there was a mother and a family of armadillos. He said, will you stay here with the flashlight and I'll go get something and come back? And I said, well, yeah, sure. I'm not afraid, you know. And they were having an all night drive in movie thing, and King Kong was on. Well, I sat there by myself, you know, about this time King Kong came on (rawr) and I was scared to death and started screaming, you know. Regan Siler How, how old were you at the time? Linda Herman I think I was around 12 or something, you know, like that. So, and then another funny story is, when we were out there, there were lovers lanes, and you could, where the housing addition is, you could drive up in there and park, you know. Well, somebody was always getting stuck, and they would come Mr. Herman, can we borrow the tractor, you know? Well, Tommy and BT and I would fight to see who got to go with daddy to see who was parking up in lover's lane. It was, you know, we had a tennis court and, so, you know, when it got dark, everybody would come to the tennis courts to play tennis. Regan Siler Well that sounds like a super fun, super fun way to grow up! Linda Herman You know, and you'd just sit there and watch and, you know, going, man, I wish they would ask me to play. Linda Kay, you wanna play tennis?! Regan Siler Well, that's cool. Well, knowing that your mom cooked and cooked out there, did you come away with, like, a favorite meal or a favorite recipe that she did? Linda Herman She did make the best hamburgers and people that Regan Siler Do we know why? Do we know what her secret was? Linda Herman She did nothing other than she, she would use her fingers to flip the patties. She cooked them in a broiler. She wouldn't cook them in a pan. She'd cook them in the broiler in the oven, and she'd toast the buns. You know, but she just would just buy regular old hamburger meat and cook them. And guys today still go, boy, I wish Martha was here so we could have a hamburger on the turn. Regan Siler Well, she definitely made an impression then, didn't she? Linda Herman They were the best hamburgers. I don't know, you know, what it was. It was just toasting the bun. And, I mean, it was a big burger. It wasn't those little buns. It was a big old burger. And she, she didn't do anything that I know of. Regan Siler So, can you replicate can you replicate it or? Linda Herman I probably could, yeah, I probably could. .Yeah, I, yeah, I probably could. Regan Siler Well, thinking about town life and growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities? And so I, for instance, like, maybe, you know, Western Heritage Day? Linda Herman We loved Western Heritage days. We would dress up and we got to take a little cap gun downtown. I used to get mad at the boys because they'd have a pea shooter, and they'd shoot, you know, pea shooters at us, you know, and stuff like that, but we'd have a cap gun, and we'd be dressed all in our little western skirts or jeans and chaps and boots, you know. Mom always made sure we had a little cowboy hat. Regan Siler So, that was a big deal for you guys. So, did you do the rodeo and all of that stuff, too? Linda Herman Just go and watch. Yeah, we'd be downtown all day long. And parades, we were always in a parade. Tommy, I know one a parade, one time, he had his goldfish in a bowl, and he'd put it in a wagon, and he had us pulling his Bull Shoals or bust. I remember he won. You know, I don't remember what parade it was. Regan Siler That's funny. So, did you, were you involved in any of, like, the county fairs or anything like that that were here? Linda Herman BT was, I wasn't. He had chickens. Regan Siler Chickens. Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler But did you go and, like, and enjoy it? Linda Herman Yeah, we'd go and ride rides, and, yeah, we did do all that. Regan Siler So, did they have, the pool was around at that time, wasn't it? Linda Herman The Silver Plunge. Regan Siler Is that what it was called? Linda Herman The Silver Plunge. Regan Siler I don't know if I knew that. Um, and so did you guys visit the pool quite a bit? Did you go to day camp? Linda Herman Oh, yeah, I went to day camp. I was a counselor at day camp. Yeah, I loved day camp. Regan Siler We're super happy that the pool has been revitalized and is back open. That's wonderful for Bristow. Linda Herman And the high tower, I just wanted to go off of it so bad. And Tommy Parish and Larry Parish were lifeguards. And I'd get up there and I just couldn't do it. You're not coming back down those steps! Linda Herman They made me jump. And after that, I love to swim, you know. Regan Siler Did you jump again? I mean, you got over your fear? Regan Siler Oh, no! Linda Herman Yeah, I got to where I'd dive off it, you know, and all that stuff. Regan Siler Was there, were there any other type of activities I might not have thought to ask you about that, town activities, community activities that you enjoyed? Because, you know, a lot of things have changed. I feel like we do have people really trying to re, you know, revamp, keep Western Heritage Days going and stuff like that. Did they have any other like, you know, obviously, we have to Tabouleh Fest and stuff like that, now, was there any other types of festivals or anything back back then? Linda Herman Not that I can think of. Regan Siler Not that, not that stuck out to you anyway. Okay, um, do you remember some of the like, the biggest or most popular or your favorite businesses around town growing up? Linda Herman OD Thorpe's Grocery [Thorpe's Food Store]. Regan Siler Oh, no, that's not what I've heard of, OD Thorpe's [Thorpe's Food Store]. Where was that located? Linda Herman It was right across from Community Bank. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman It's a pot shop now. That when we lived at Fifth Street, we got to walk down there, and that's where we bought our groceries, and he would always give us a hot dog to eat while my mom was shopping. Regan Siler Oh! Linda Herman Everybody, all the kids that came in, always got a hot dog. Linda Herman Yeah. And we could go down there, my mom needs a package of cigarettes, and he'd give them to us, you know, and we'd walk back home. And I liked going to Strong's Department Dry Goods, and you bought a pair of shoes, and this big old chicken laid a gold egg, and there was a prize that you got when you got bought shoes, you know. And I don't, I hated going to the laundry mat at Fifth and Main because it was hot but we'd have to go, and we got to play outside while my mom was doing laundry. Regan Siler Well, that's cool. Regan Siler Well, it seems like, from, I didn't come to Bristow until around the early 80s, and it seems like prior to that, that Bristow was a really happening place, and which, you know, other people have told me that they feel like Walmart was kind of the downfall and the Turnpike. I guess maybe the change in Bristow. Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler But it does seem like, I feel like we're on an upswing now, and that things are things are happening and but, man, I mean, there was a lot of stores here. Linda Herman There was a place down that was, what was the name of it? My grandmother, Stanford's. That's where my grandmother's always went and bought my clothes, little dresses and shoes and socks and everything to match, patent leather shoes, you know, little purse. She always had me foo foo'd up going to church, and the boys would always steal my purse and ran and I'd start crying. Regan Siler Now, did you like dressing up like that? Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler Or were, you did, okay? Linda Herman I did it for my grandmother. I loved my grandmother. And yeah, no, I just match from head to toe all the time. Regan Siler I bet you were adorable. Linda Herman Little chubby thing. Regan Siler Did you have a favorite place to eat out, or did you primarily eat at home? Linda Herman Highway Cafe. Regan Siler Highway Cafe. Now, remind me where that was that on Linda Herman That's where Zane Goodwin is right now. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman And we'd go there every Sunday after church. And I remember there was a lady, Phyllis Holcomb was her name, and she wore bright red lipstick, and she waited on us, and she'd always let Tommy, BT and I have, instead of ketchup, she'd give us French salad dressing to squirt on our french fries instead of ketchup. Regan Siler Really? Linda Herman Yeah. And sometimes we'd go to J & ; amp ; J, which was down here between Fourth and Fifth Street, and I remember there was a black cat and it's eyes would go back and forth. Watch that cat going, okay, what's it gonna do? Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. Um, well, as a teenager, where were where was the hangout? Where was the happenin', like, what did you do as a teenager? Where'd you hang out? Linda Herman Well, we drove up down Main Street, and we'd go down to 7-11, which is Kum & ; amp ; Go, and then we'd go back up, and we'd go through Thurman's Motel trying to get caught, to go through there because you weren't supposed to, you know. Then there was a gas station where Regan Siler Trying not to get caught, or trying Linda Herman To get caught, but because you weren't allowed to go through there [indeciphperable] back on the main street. But then there was a gas station where Mainer is, and they would close, so we'd turn around there, and then go back down. Well, then they put the four lane in. So then we went out to the four lane, and then they put Stop N Shop and all that in, and so, we would go, and we turn around there, and then we'd go to Kum & ; amp ; Go and then come back up, you know, 7-11 then. And then we'd just sit in the gas stations that were closed, or stores, you know, with the all the doors open, or somebody's in a pickup, we'd sit and just watch and holler at people as they go by. Regan Siler And now it's just because it was like that, even whenever I grew up where, you know, you cruised main. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler You hung out, and now it just, town is dead. Nobody cruises. I'm like, we need to bring that back. That was a that was always, like, a really fun time to have a cool car and, you know, cruise and, but it's just, I don't know the kids nowadays, I guess don't think that's fun. Linda Herman We'd always try to run the Depew girls out of town because they were out here trying to get the Bristow boys. Regan Siler That's funny. Linda Herman Mainly, we were just, you know, I was a good girl. I didn't do, because I knew I'd probably get killed. Regan Siler Well, yeah. Linda Herman And we had the longest driveway because Tommy, BT and I, we'd always have, you know, we have to be home at midnight, and so we'd have to leave early because we had to go all the way around the lake and fun would only start like 1030 or 11 o'clock, and then you had to be home, and then you try to recreate that the next day. Regan Siler And it is, well, it wasn't the same, was it? Yeah, because thinking about that, you did have a lot that was a long way to to try to get out there. Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler So, was the was the lake there at that time? Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler The lake was already there. Linda Herman The lake has always been there as long as I Regan Siler Okay, okay, but they just didn't, did when did it get, in relation to you living out there, when did it get redone, as far as like, having the nicer road around it? Was it like that? Linda Herman No, it was after. Regan Siler It was after that. Regan Siler I need to get the date of when that was all redone for for reference. Linda Herman Yes. We didn't have a cable. It was just loaded with trees all the way around it. Like the damn was loaded with trees. You couldn't see down in there or any of that stuff. Linda Herman Now when the lake would go down, like in the winter, it would get real low, and where the walk across is now, we could walk across that, but you had to climb up on boat docks and all that kind of stuff. And that's another funny story. We all went to town one day and we walked, and there's snow. We couldn't get around, you know, and we went to town and did what we had to, and we came back and we got across the dam there and my mom wasn't with us. Well, she got hooked on a nail on the boat dock and was hanging and we didn't notice. Regan Siler And you didn't even notice? Linda Herman One, one of us turned around and said, hey, mom, and she wasn't even there. She was back hanging on the boat dock. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny, um, do you remember your first family car? Linda Herman Yeah, my dad always, always had a station wagon. Regan Siler A station wagon. Linda Herman It was beige and had brown paneling down the side of it. Regan Siler So you were styling, weren't you? Um, so I guess, did both your parents usually take you places? Or was it usually your mom? Or, since your dad was Linda Herman Usually my mom. Linda Herman Dad never went like on a vacation in the summer, which we never went on a vacation in the summer, because that was the busy time at the golf course. Regan Siler Usually your mom, okay. Regan Siler That was my next question is, did you ever get to go on vacation? Linda Herman And it was either to Amarillo [Texas] to my mom's sisters or to Kansas, which was still on my mom's side, but they were big dairy farmers in Kansas, and we'd get to go up there and do the milking, and then they got electric milkers, and we just thought that was cool, you know, yeah. Regan Siler So, do you remember who taught you how to drive? Linda Herman Jack Snorgrass (ph). Pat Lewis's grandfather, he had no van, and he'd take Pat and I on Sundays out in the country and let us drive his old van. Regan Siler So, it was just a family friend that taught you how to drive? Were your parents too scared? Linda Herman No, my mom, she was good about it. She and I would go drive on country roads a lot and stuff. And then my cousin came up from Amarillo in a Volkswagen, and I wanted to drive the Volkswagen. It was a standard. She goes, teach yourself how to do it. So, I taught myself how to do that, you know. Regan Siler And didn't lose a, didn't tear anything up in the process? Linda Herman No, no. Regan Siler Do you remember what your first car was? Linda Herman A Galaxie 500 [Ford Galaxie 500], and I'd drive it like from here to Okemah [Oklahoma] and have to put a quart of oil in it. My car payment was $64 a month. And now you pay five and $600. Regan Siler Or more! I think there's people that probably pay more than that. Oh my gosh, a Galaxie. What is that?Who even makes that? Linda Herman I think Ford did. Regan Siler A Ford Galaxie. Linda Herman It was kind of a golden brown with a black top. Regan Siler I'll have to look that up. I'm not, I'm pretty familiar with cars, but I'm not familiar with that one. Linda Herman And when I was a senior in high school at Christmas, and yeah, my mom, they bought it and made the first payment. Wasn't new at all, but I didn't care, you know. Regan Siler So, is working at the golf course how you made your payment? Linda Herman No, I worked at the drive in theater in the concession stand for Bill Wilkerson. Regan Siler Do you remember, do you remember how much they paid for it? You don't remember? Linda Herman No, they hid it in the barn at the golf course with the golf carts and wrapped up the keys and gave them to me senior year at Christmas. Regan Siler Well, that's Linda Herman And then told me I had to pay for it! Regan Siler Well, you know. Linda Herman That's all right, hey, I got a car. Regan Siler Yeah, exactly. Um, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? I know you said you were outside a lot or whatever, but did you, did you watch TV? And if you did, like, what was your favorite program? Linda Herman I remember watching Big Bill & ; amp ; Oom-A-Gog on TV. Regan Siler What? Linda Herman Yeah, Big Bill & ; amp ; Oom-A-Gog. And it was a, I think it was on channel two in Tulsa. I got to go there when I was in Girl Scouts. Regan Siler What? So, what is that? Linda Herman It was Regan Siler Big Bill & ; amp ; Oom-A-Gog? Linda Herman It was a robot. It was a robot. There's a man there. And we got to go when we was in Girl Scouts, and be on the TV show. Regan Siler Oh, neat! Linda Herman Yeah. And we watched a lot of family shows, you know, together in the evening and stuff. But we watched a lot of golf on TV and stuff, so. Regan Siler Do you recall witnessing any like pivotal events on TV? Linda Herman I remember sitting in Rosemary LeForce's bed when Mr. President Kennedy got shot. I remember sitting and Jill and I'd sit and we watched all that, you know, and stuff and. Regan Siler So, about how, how old would you have been? Linda Herman Maybe, do you remember when he got shot? Regan Siler No, I don't. Well, so I guess, do you remember how you felt, like, how that made you feel at the time? Just, you were just, yeah. Linda Herman I just knew the president got shot. Regan Siler You were just interested in, in, in what happened. Um, did you enjoy listening to music growing up? Linda Herman Nah, I didn't. Regan Siler You didn't?! I can't believe how many people say that they don't, they didn't really listen to much music. Linda Herman Yeah, no. I mean, if I was in the car, you know. Regan Siler So, you didn't have, like, a favorite artist or favorite record you listen to, or anything like that? Linda Herman Well, I love Kenny Rogers. I love to listen to Kenny Rogers. And, you know, back then we played a record player a lot, you know. And I had an album and albums of different, you know, ones, but Kenny Rogers was probably my favorite. Regan Siler Your favorite. Linda Herman I think because he looked like Dr Krug. And I thought doctor was very handsome. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. Linda Herman I used to tell Susie all the time, oh, I just look at him and think of Kenny Rogers. Regan Siler Oh, that's a good one. Well, that's a good transition into what was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor? Linda Herman Yes, I had Dr. Norfleet (ph) and Dr. Chapman [Frank D. Chapman 1/26/1934-12/13/2020] and Regan Siler Did you go to the doctor much? Or did you guys typically handle things at home? Linda Herman We didn't, I don't remember going to the doctor a whole lot. Regan Siler That didn't stand out to you? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler So, you didn't have any, you don't recall you or any of your family having any, I don't know, like, outbreaks of anything, or Linda Herman I know I had chicken pox, was it chicken pox, real bad. And my mom said all she could get me to even swallow was peanut butter sandwich soaked in milk. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Linda Herman I remember her telling me that that, you know, I had chicken pox real, real bad, [indecipherable] Regan Siler So, nobody had any like serious illnesses or epidemics or anything? You didn't go through anything like that as a as a youngster? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler Um, did you attend church growing up? Linda Herman First Presbyterian Church. Regan Siler First Presbyterian, um, that's the gray church, isn't it? Yes, yes. Um, so what was it like? What do you remember about attending church there can, like Linda Herman We, we went every Sunday, and, Regan Siler Like, your whole, did your whole family go? Or, Linda Herman Yeah, my dad, you know, never could go. He did after, you know, he retired and stuff. But my grandmother and granddad Thompson went there, and we would go, and we were all three in the angel choir, and my mom was in the choir. And it was a lot of fun going. There were a lot of kids, and we just walked from Fifth Street, you know, over there. And my grandparents were real big into the church. Regan Siler And, so, that was where you had always gone? Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler Okay, okay, um, what were holidays like in your family? We can start with Christmas, because that's usually always the big one. Tell me what a typical Christmas was like at your house? Linda Herman We pretty much got everything we wanted, but that would be the only time my mom would go out at Christmas, not birthday, Easter, any of that. But Christmas Regan Siler Was a big deal. Linda Herman It was a big deal. Regan Siler And do you remember what it was like decorations like, tell me, like, what your house. Linda Herman My dad would always go buy two trees and drill holes and put branches into another tree to make it bereal full. Regan Siler Are you serious? Linda Herman Yes, because they just weren't real full. And he wanted a full tree. Then it sat for a couple of days so all the limbs could fall down like they should, and then he'd put the lights on it. Then we got to decorate. Regan Siler Man, he was into it, wasn't he? Linda Herman And he always decorated our house, put lights outside and everything. Linda Herman Then the old, neat ornaments, you know that, I don't know, they were just so neat. And then you had, Regan Siler I love that. Regan Siler Like, the vint, like the vintage, the vintage looking ones, yeah? Linda Herman And then, excuse me, um, tinsel. Well, my mom had to put each little piece. Well, Tommy and BT and me, just, just throw it, you know, and she'd get so mad at us, just go sit down! Just go sit down! You don't need to do it! Regan Siler We, me and my brother, my dad loved tinsel, too. It wasn't until I was older that I realized why my mom didn't like it is because it's so messy. Linda Herman Yes, yes, but mom had to put each little piece, you know. But it was wonderful. And everybody came to my grandparents house, and there were so many presents. Regan Siler And was that at Sixth Street, okay? Regan Siler But a magical, wonderful memory. Linda Herman You couldn't even see the fireplace and all that because everybody's presents were there, and it was just like a mad house. But we had a blast. Linda Herman Oh yeah, yeah. Regan Siler Well, that's neat. Linda Herman But we'd always meet at my grandmother Thompson's for Thanksgiving and stuff. But any other holiday we really didn't, you know, go away. Regan Siler So, it wasn't a it was mainly Christmas, so not even, like, Fourth of July or anything? It wasn't as big of a deal as what Christmas was? Linda Herman No. Regan Siler Sounds like they went on they, yeah, they went out with a bang on Christmas. Yeah. Well, that's neat, yeah. Um, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Linda Herman Yes, I wanted to attend OU [University of Oklahoma] and be on the girls golf team, and then be a golf pro. And I didn't do any of that, other than play golf. Regan Siler Well, I mean, you're, you're in the realm there. Linda Herman That's what, and I found my little deal that I wrote not too long ago in school for some class, and that's what I wanted to do, was go to OU and. Regan Siler So, when did you, let's talk about the golf course more in depth, and like the effect that it had on your life. Obviously, it sounded like it was a very cool place to grow up, and you have a lot of good memories there. When did you actually start playing golf? Did your is your dad, the one that was instrumental in getting you to? Linda Herman Yes, yes. I started as soon as we moved out there. I was in the fourth grade. Regan Siler Fourth grade. Linda Herman And I started playing then. Regan Siler Did you immediately love it? Linda Herman Oh yeah. And my dad used to make us hit 100 golf balls in a circle whenever we'd practice. Regan Siler A hundred golf balls in a circle? Linda Herman Circle, so you could get your distance of where you were going, like, you'd have a hole out there, so you would know how far to hit it in that circle to get close to the flag pin. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman You know, and stuff like that. He made us practice constantly. Practice makes perfect. Regan Siler Right. Linda Herman And to this day, don't ask me to go hit a ball practicing, because I won't do it. I tell those guys, I'll be on tee box waiting and I'm not practicing. I'm not hitting any balls. I give golf lessons. I will not I just. Regan Siler You won't do it. So, where did his love of golf come from? Linda Herman When he was in the service in Florida, he took it up and would play. And then he got called back into the Korean War and he was married to my mom, and she thought he was going to the base every morning. Oh, no, he was going with all the captains and everything, to the golf course, playing golf every day. And she thought he was on base working. So, that's where, you know, in Tommy and BT, they play, but not like I do. Regan Siler Not as much as what you do. So, tell me more, so how long were, how long did you guys actually live out there and and run it? Linda Herman I think my dad was out there around 20 years. Regan Siler But how long did you live actually live out there? Linda Herman The whole time. Regan Siler The whole time? Oh my gosh, okay. Linda Herman Yes, yes. Regan Siler So, that was, that was your whole entire childhood. Linda Herman And they would have parties in the big room there, and we wouldn't be allowed to come, so Tommy and BT and I'd lay in the window sills and watch them in there having fun and everything. But it was a great place to grow up. I learned a lot. I learned a lot of respect. Regan Siler Did you, did you feel like at the time, being a young person, I know we talked about, you know, that's where you've learned, like, your work ethic, and did you always love that part, or as a kid that that, did you wish maybe you didn't have to do some of that stuff? Linda Herman Yeah, no, I was fine being out there. Regan Siler Well, that's good. Linda Herman I was great. Regan Siler That's good. Linda Herman It was great. Regan Siler And that was probably even a fun place to have your friends out? Linda Herman Yes, yeah, we just get in a golf cart and get to ride around. And, you know, we just, it was a great place. Regan Siler Great place. Linda Herman I would raise anybody out there. Regan Siler Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it. Well, let's talk a little bit about your different jobs you've had during your life. I know we talked about that a little bit on the phone. I know you said you started at the drive in and that's how you paid for your car. Linda Herman Started at the drive in theater, and then I went and worked for Edmond and Sherian [Slyman] catering, and I also helped them at the tabouli shop that they had. And I worked for, I was Corinne Dial's first employee at Little People School. And then I left there, and I went to the school in '79 and worked for the school for 41 years. Regan Siler Forty-one years! So, you saw a lot of kids grow up in that time. Linda Herman Regan, kids to this day your age, hey, Ms. Linda Kay! I go you don't have to call me Ms. Linda Kay. You will always be Ms. Linda Kay. Regan Siler It is like that I've had, I have a hard time even when I run into teachers now, I'll always say, Ms. so-and-so. You don't have to call me that. That makes me feel old. I'm like, but that's who you are to me. Linda Herman But now that I've retired from school, I kind of did nothing for a couple of years, and I'm back at the golf courses manager. Regan Siler Back at the golf course. Linda Herman I have made my circle. Regan Siler You have and how, how is that for you? Are you? Linda Herman It's good. I love it. You know, I see now a lot of things that my mom and dad had to put up with that is ridiculous, if people would just think, you now. But you know how days and times are now. It's all about them. And it's been hard because I'm a woman. They don't want me telling them, hey. Regan Siler How to do things. Linda Herman How to do things, and, you know, on the golf course, mainly. My employees are wonderful that work for me. They'll do anything. Regan Siler So, maybe like a like you're saying kind of a level of disrespect, maybe? Linda Herman Yes, you know, they don't, you know they don't want me to tell them, if you don't want to do what I'm saying, then leave. Regan Siler Right. Linda Herman They don't like me telling them that I'm telling you to leave. Regan Siler Yeah, that's unfortunate. Linda Herman Yeah, and the board, Brian Pinson and Gary Graham, the board out there is wonderful. They support me wonderfully. Regan Siler That's good. Yeah, you've definitely come full circle, haven't you? Linda Herman I've made my circle, and I feel like I've in my mom and dad's footsteps and stuff. Regan Siler Yeah. Well, before we get off of that, I've got to circle back to the school. I know that. I mean, my gosh, 41 years, that's a long time. And this is probably a loaded question, because there's probably tons of stories, but what did you, what did you get out of that, being there, because I feel like you're, you're like, the, oh, I don't know, like the Linda Herman You see, a lot of personalities. Well, take you, for instance, your kids act just like you, you know, you see that, and they would come and go, Linda Kay, do you remember Regan when she was in school? Does Chad act just like she did, yeah, you know, or you know, they you just see a lot of it. I mean, I used to tell Judy Vice, I think we have seen grandparents now. Regan Siler Like there's the generations of kids. Linda Herman Yes, you know, but so many different personalities. It was a good place to work. You know, I fell in love with a lot of kids. There's a lot I would have taken home with me if I'd had the room, because I felt so sorry for them. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah. Linda Herman Some of those kids, the only meal they get is at school, and that just broke my heart. I probably spent more of my own money on stuff for kids. Regan Siler Yeah, that's a rough thing to have to witness and not really have any, any control to fix. Linda Herman Yeah, it's not their fault, you know. Regan Siler Do you have any like I say, I'm sure you have tons of stories, but does anything in particular stick out to you that, I don't know, meant a lot to you or that would, success, I don't know, just any, any particular stories that stand out to you, that I guess you can share without, yeah, with maybe not mentioning names. I don't know. Linda Herman Yeah, no, there was a lot that I, you know, when you'd have to keep kids from parents. That just broke my heart, but I knew it was the best thing you know for that. Regan Siler Have you had any kids that are adults now come back to you and tell you, thank you for loving on me? Regan Siler Well, I could see, I guess that's what I was trying to say earlier, is you seemed to me like you would be the, the soft place to fall for a lot of kids that maybe don't have that, or maybe even that do, but just are having a rough time, or, you know, whatever that that you were kind of the soft place to fall for them. Linda Herman Yes, yes. And then I have some that kind of go, do they still had the time out box? Like a three-sided thing that Mrs. Vice would have him sit in, you know, to cool down and all that. But no there, you know, they'll and they'll tell their kids, hey, she was in school when I was there, and she was the sweetest thing. And we love Ms. Linda Kay and, you know, and stuff like that. Linda Herman Yes. Regan Siler The person that that kind of loved them no matter what, you know. Linda Herman Yes, and they would, you know, they would, they would just come and sit in my lap and let me love on them and, and they needed that. Regan Siler Now you're going to make me cry. Linda Herman Today's time, you can't do that. I Regan Siler I know. Linda Herman That was very hard to do. Regan Siler I know. Linda Herman My last few years, I had to watch who I touched. Regan Siler Everything has changed. Linda Herman You know, I would know Regan's not gonna matter if I love on Chad. Regan Siler Cale, it's Cale. Linda Herman But, you know, it was that's, you know, if you just really have to watch. Back then I could have loved on every one of them, and thank you, Linda Kay, for, you know, so and so came home today and said they got to sit in your lap. You loved on and they were crying, you know. Regan Siler But to me, that seems like that would be, and I think, especially, in the elementary that's a, can be a tough time for kids that, to know that you had that loving effect on them, to show them kindness and love in times when they need or, you know, just a hug. My boys, Cale and Luke, like I know, Cale was a, he still is, you know. Love him to death, but he was a tough he was a tough kid to get through school. And sometimes he would just have, yeah, rough days, you know. And to be able to hug a kid like that and tell him it's going to be okay, that makes a huge difference. Linda Herman Right, you know, and I'd had to have parents call and go, Linda Kay, is there any way you can come get so and so and take her to school with you? I can't get her in the car and she'll go, if you'll come. Sure, you know, and I'll go do it and, you know. Regan Siler And that's the stuff that I don't think, well, I know, like a lot of people don't, I think it's easy to, I don't know, lump teachers in education. It's education is kind of a mess right now. Different sides saying different things. But I think that's an aspect of it that regular people don't see unless you're in the education system, that there are people that go way above and beyond what their job title is, as far as just caring about the kids and taking care of them, and that's how I see you. I think you gave 41 years to Bristow kids. Linda Herman I did. I really did, and it's, to me, it's not the school system, it's the other things you have to deal with that is hard. And I was, I was done. Regan Siler Yeah, you know, do you, I understand being done, especially in this time period that we're in. But do you miss it? Linda Herman At times I do, especially, being around the little kids, you know. The adults and stuff, no. Regan Siler Yeah. Linda Herman That you dealt with every day. Regan Siler Right. Linda Herman You know, it's always our fault. Regan Siler Right. It was time for a new chapter for you, or maybe an a new old chapter. Linda Herman Yeah, yeah. And I had wonderful bosses, you know. And I was, you know, I told Debbie Ponder, I said, I'm sorry, but I'm done, you know, it's time for me to get out, so. Regan Siler Yeah, and I bet that was a that was probably a tearful Linda Herman It was very hard. Regan Siler A tearful goodbye. You do something, I mean, honestly, hardly anyone stays at anywhere that long. It just doesn't happen in this day and age. Linda Herman And used to I was up and ready to go to work, and it was getting to where I had to make myself get up to go to work, yeah, you know. And I knew, you know. Regan Siler Wanted to go out on a good note. Linda Herman Yeah, yeah, yeah, so. Regan Siler Well, to kind of change things up a little bit. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? Linda Herman Well, I'm gonna say it is the difference in golf clubs. Regan Siler Of course, that would be your answer! Linda Herman The change in golf clubs. I mean when you go from persimmon trees shafts in golf clubs that, you know, think hitting a golf ball with a wooden shaft. You would think that that would bust when you would hit two steel shafts, metal shafts, flex shafts, and all that kind of stuff. And the ball goes so much farther. There's so much in stuff that has been Regan Siler Like evolution in the Linda Herman Yeah, in a golf club, you know. I have my grandfather's golf clubs, and they were all wooden shaft, you know. And just to think, you know, the difference in that and now. Regan Siler Why does it not surprise me that she answered with a with a golf Answer? But no, I think that's a great, a great perspective. Linda Herman Yes, so. Regan Siler And golf balls you said? Linda Herman And golf balls, yes, you know, it's just the difference in what they've have invented and discovered in golf even, you know. Regan Siler Okay, that's a that's a fair answer. Well, how do you feel the world is different than when you were a child? Linda Herman When I was a child, it was very enjoyable. People got along. You know, you weren't scared of anything. You left your doors open at night. Your windows up and all that. And I feel like life now, you're scared to death all the time. You know, you can't do, you're just constantly looking behind to see what's going on and Regan Siler Right, no, I hear that. Linda Herman Growing up as a kid was wonderful. Regan Siler Carefree. It was very carefree! Linda Herman Now, I mean, these my nieces, great nieces and nephews, what are they going to have to deal with when they're five now, and when they get 20? Regan Siler And you feel different, I'm sure, towards, towards them, and how you watch them, or how, you know, any kids, just because. Linda Herman I mean, we got wore out. I don't know if you did. I'm still alive. Regan Siler Oh, yeah. Linda Herman Whip that butt. Linda Herman You know, it's not going to hurt them. That's, you know, that's the problem now, you know, there's no discipline because they're afraid to discipline that someone's gonna call and turn them in or. Regan Siler Yes. Regan Siler Right. Linda Herman Something like that. Regan Siler Oh no, there was no lack of discipline in my house. Linda Herman I still have ears. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. Well, what this might be along the same line, but what do you feel our nation's biggest problems are, and how do you think they can be solved? Linda Herman Oh, gosh, politics, I think this is our biggest problem, and to fix it, I don't know. Regan Siler Wipe it all out and start over, maybe? Linda Herman Something, but I, I wish the economy and stuff would be better, you know. And I know it'll never get back to 25 cents a gallon for gas, you know, like what it was. And, you know, go and buy a bill of groceries for $50 and you pay $200 now, you know, stuff like that. Regan Siler It just makes it very, the times we're living in now are very hard, very hard to make it. And yes, I know I've said, like for my kids, who are young adults, it's very hard to get started in life, because it's just a whole different. Linda Herman And I have a niece that wants to go to work, but child care is so expensive. If you don't have a good job, all your money's going to child care. Regan Siler Yeah, you're paying someone to Linda Herman If you don't have a family member and when I retired, I said I wasn't babysitting. Regan Siler Right, right. Linda Herman I've eaten my words there. Linda Herman Well, you know, I'm not going to do it every day. You know, just stuff like that. I just wish it would just get better, you know. Regan Siler Right. Regan Siler I can't disagree with you. Linda Herman You don't get to go and do like you did back then, because you used to be able to go on a tank of gas, and now it takes a tank to get halfway there. Regan Siler Well, I saw a meme, and it kind of makes me laugh, because it's true, like, I don't leave the house much anymore, because every time I do, it cost me $300. Linda Herman Yeah, yes, you know. And my little great, great nephew, he'll kind of okay, okay, you take me Coop's, you take me to Coop's? And you go, and it's 20 bucks by the time you leave Coop's with candy, slushes and but I do it, you know. Regan Siler Oh, yeah. Linda Herman Why should they get left out? Regan Siler Yes, no, I understand. How have historic events affected you? For instance, well, like we talked about JFK getting shot, but like maybe the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, COVID, natural disasters. Have any of those things affected you in your life? Do you remember or can you think of? Linda Herman No, I think about the bombing. It happened on my brother's birthday. And so I think about it every year. Regan Siler Which one the Oklahoma City or? Linda Herman Yes, the Oklahoma City bombing. So, I think about it, you know. And I was at school when that happened. I think when I really got to where I was watching my back a lot, even at school, is when Eisenberger [Scott Eizember] Linda Herman Eizmeber, all that happened. And we were on lockdown for such a long time, and you were just constantly, you know, just to walk to the cafeteria 25 yards now, you were just kind of Regan Siler Yeah, that was like, that was that manhunt was a major, major thing. I can remember being, I was younger, and being like, you're nervous to be outside in the country when that's nothing you ever thought of, never even considered being outside in your yard or doing anything, but like you say, you're always kind of looking over your shoulder. Regan Siler Eizember? Linda Herman And even, like when I'm at the golf course and I'm by myself, you know, I'm not scared. Regan Siler You just have to be aware. Linda Herman But you have to be aware, and like I told the guys, more than likely it's going to be somebody I had in school, and I'm going to say, what in the heck do you think you're doing, you know? It's Ms. Linda Kay, you're not gonna hurt me and stuff like that. But I shouldn't have that outlook. And I still have, you know, in my mind, you've got to watch, you know, on stuff like that. Regan Siler You definitely have to be aware today. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you would like to share with us, or maybe any wisdom that you would like to share that you've learned through your life that you want to pass on for your great nieces and nephews to hear one day? Linda Herman Take care of yourself. Live a good life. Have fun and enjoy it and play golf! Regan Siler That's how she's gonna end this interview, play golf! Linda Herman Play golf! Swing that club. It's good exercise. Regan Siler Absolutely. Linda Herman And I've tried and tried to get my nieces and my nephews to play, and I think I might have one. He told me the other day he wanted to play golf. He's only five, but we'll see. You know, I Regan Siler Well, maybe you need to teach me how to play golf. Because I am, I honestly, I am, I love sports, but I have never in my life played golf. I haven't, and I'd probably like it. Linda Herman I gave Boston Raney, Blakeman, whatever, lessons last summer. He and another little boy, and they're big baseball players, you know, and I think they got so sick of me saying, put your feet together. Put your feet together. And but I played against Boston in a tournament last summer, and he we were on this same group, but on different teams. And he would say, Linda Kay, and I'd go, I can't tell you, you're my opponent. I can't tell you what Regan Siler We mean business! Linda Herman When we're on this team, golf tournament, or money, or whatever. And so he got to where he'd just look at me, and I just, you know, do this with my eyes, so he knew he was doing it right. But I love that little boy. If he sticks to it, he'll be a good little golfer. Regan Siler Oh, well, that's good. Maybe I need to come out and visit the golf course, and you can take me for Linda Herman There you go. Regan Siler A around and see if I like it, because I feel like at some point me and my husband are going to have to, you know, when he ever quits working so much, find a hobby. It seems like that might be one that doesn't kill you in your old age. Yeah, that's actually good for you without, like, really messing something up, you know. Linda Herman And if I don't hit a good ball, I just take off walking, so I still get more exercise, you know. But I was also going to tell you, if you want it, I have a picture, and I think it is opening day at the golf course. Regan Siler Oh, yes! Linda Herman And back then, the men played in dress pants and shirts and ties. Oh, white shirts and ties, and there's all these men standing around. It's either six or nine green and we think it's opening day. Regan Siler That would be amazing. Is that something that you would want us to copy, or you would want to donate to the museum? Linda Herman We'd have to copy it. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman We have it up in the pro shop. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman We found it when we were cleaning some stuff out, and we believe it's opening day. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman And they opened in '23. Regan Siler We have a pretty quality scanner down at the depot, so maybe we bring it down there, and we could make a copy of it. That's, yeah, that's awesome. That's the kind of stuff that we love to preserve. Linda Herman Yes. So, and we had two copies, and if I can find that other one you call can have one. Regan Siler Okay. Linda Herman But, yes, we do have one there in the pro shop. And, okay, yeah, we think that's. Regan Siler Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. Linda Herman Yeah. Regan Siler Well, we appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum. We appreciate you very much and thank you. Linda Herman Thank you. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0063_Linda_Kay_Herman.xml OHP-0063_Linda_Kay_Herman.xml
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Linda Kay Herman
Description
An account of the resource
Linda Kay Herman, born on June 20, 1955, in Bristow, Oklahoma, shared her life story which included spending her childhood at the golf course her dad managed. She recounted her early life, including her favorite childhood activities, school experiences, and the influence of her parents and community. Linda discussed her career, which included working at a drive-in theater, catering, and working at Bristow Public Schools for 41 years. She emphasized the changes in society, particularly in discipline and economics, and her love for golf, which began in her childhood.
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OHP-0063
Date
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2024-08-15
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video
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
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Frank Groom
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0062_Frank_Groom.xml
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Bristow history;family background;childhood memories;school life;air force;trucking career;community involvement;holiday traditions;public service;personal achievements;historical events;community activities;personal wisdom
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5.4 August 6, 2024 OHP-0062 Frank Groom OHP-0062 01:16:44 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Bristow history ; family background ; childhood memories ; school life ; air force ; trucking career ; community involvement ; holiday traditions ; public service ; personal achievements ; historical events ; community activities ; personal wisdom Frank Groom Regan Siler 1.0:|23(3)|53(4)|87(12)|103(7)|122(10)|146(4)|173(11)|194(5)|216(16)|230(5)|251(4)|263(15)|286(6)|308(18)|329(8)|353(4)|380(12)|404(10)|422(4)|430(8)|458(8)|469(5)|482(3)|506(6)|529(5)|554(15)|573(11)|596(5)|611(15)|627(16)|639(12)|657(5)|692(12)|720(5)|742(10)|752(7)|767(10)|785(6)|806(12)|832(8)|855(4)|884(17)|900(15)|928(4)|957(4)|976(7)|998(18)|1017(7)|1037(10)|1061(12)|1082(14)|1107(14)|1123(9)|1150(4)|1172(6)|1190(4)|1220(14)|1243(7)|1261(13)|1279(6)|1297(7)|1316(8)|1336(10)|1355(5)|1368(9)|1391(6)|1418(13)|1433(4)|1456(14)|1487(11)|1506(11)|1527(5)|1541(10)|1563(6)|1575(8)|1605(10)|1626(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0062 Groom, Frank.mp4 Other video 0 Background Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 6, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Frank groom at the Bristow library annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:24
 ; Franklin Ewing Groom.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:27
 ; Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:29
 ; Yes, you do.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:30
 ; Okay. So can you tell me when and where you were born?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:35
 ; I was born August the 14th, 1939 in Chandler, Oklahoma.
 ; Frank Groom was born August 14, 1939. He was born in Chandler, Oklahoma. His full name is Franklin Ewing Groom. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Library Annex ; Franklin Ewing Groom ; Chandler (Okla.) Background 0 41 Parents and Siblings Regan Siler 00:41
 ; And can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's, let's start with your parents. What are your parents? Full names? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:48
 ; My dad was Floyd Franklin Groom and my mom was Thelma Carmen Burris.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:55
 ; Okay. Do you happen to know your, I have your your dad's birth date as 12/8/1913. Does that sound right? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:04
 ; And then I have your mother as November 6, 1938 [correction 11/20/1911] 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 01:04
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 01:09
 ; That's correct.
 ; Frank's parents were Floyd and Thelma Groom. Frank had five siblings-four brothers and one sister. Two of his siblings have already passed. Parents ; Floyd Franklin Groom ; Thelma Carmen Burris Groom ; Murel Dean Groom Rains ; Siblings ; William Earl Groom ; Gilbert Lee Groom ; Jimmy Don Groom ; Joe Lynn Groom ; Bristow (Okla.) ; South Dakota Parents ; Siblings 0 155 Parents' Occupations Regan Siler 02:35
 ; Okay, okay, um, what type of work, I know we had talked a little bit, but what, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 02:44
 ; My dad was a carpenter contractor, and my mom had the restaurant. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:50
 ; Okay, and you had mentioned that your family had run like restaurants in the Bristow area for around 40 years. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 02:56
 ; Yes.
 ; Frank's father was a carpenter contractor. Frank's mother ran restaurants in Bristow for around 40 years. A couple of the restaurants were the Harvey House Cafe and Mom's Home Cooking. Carpenter Contractor ; Restaurant ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Main Street ; Blue Front ; Kelly Lake Truck Stop ; Harvey House Cafe ; Dollar General Store (Firm) ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; Mom's Home Cooking Occupation 0 258 Carpentry Regan Siler 04:18
 ; It was just part of it. So, now, I know you said, and, which, I'm kind of skipping ahead, but knowing that your dad was a carpenter, is that where you because I know you had the handyman business, which we'll talk about a little later on in the interview. But is that where you learned all your skills? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 04:37
 ; Yes, and working with him and my granddad. My Granddad, Burris was also a carpenter, and was a real good teacher. So I learned a lot from my grandpa.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 04:49
 ; To me, that is some of the most you can't put a price tag on the knowledge that you can gain from like learning a trade like that, like carpentry, which I feel like we're kind of losing in this day and age as far as craftsmanship and quality of work and things like that. So, I guess you did you enjoy it as a young person? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 05:12
 ; Oh yeah, yeah.
 ; Frank learned many carpentry skills from his father and his Grandpa Burris. He learned how to sharpen chisels, tools and saws and many other skills. His father even built and remodeled several houses in Bristow. Carpentry ; Bristow (Okla.) Carpentry 0 355 Bomber Plant Regan Siler 05:55
 ; Whatever needed to be done. So, did you, has your family, when did your has your family always lived in the Bristow area? I know you said you were born in Chandler. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:06
 ; Well, we moved here when I was, like, four years old. So that would have been 1943 we moved to Bristow.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 06:16
 ; And did your grand, did your grandparents live here?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:19
 ; They did after we lived here.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 06:21
 ; Oh, okay, so they moved here. They followed you here. Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:25
 ; My dad had a, well, they worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II.
 ; Frank and his family moved to Bristow when Frank was four years old. Before that, Frank's parents worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II. Frank's father built the scaffolding for the airplanes to be worked on. His mother put aluminum panels together for the airplanes. The bomber plant was located where American Airlines now has their repair depot. Bristow (Okla.) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Bomber Plant ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; World War II ; Rosie the Riveter ; Buick automobile ; American Airlines Bomber Plant 0 469 Grandparents and Extended Family Regan Siler 07:49
 ; Wow. Okay, um, so growing up, did you have, obviously, your grandparents were here. Did you have other family that lived nearby you?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:01
 ; No. Our closest relatives were in Guthrie [Oklahoma].
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:05
 ; Really? Okay. So just your grandparents on your dad's side? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:10
 ; No, my mom's side.
 ; Frank's grandparents on his mother's side lived close to him growing up. They were the only family members close. His other extended family members lived in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Grandparents ; Guthrie (Okla.) Grandparents ; Family 0 492 Early Childhood Regan Siler 08:12
 ; Your mom's side were the ones that lived here close to you. Okay, um, so let's talk a little bit about your early childhood. These are just some kind of fun questions to remember. Do you remember having any favorite toys or favorite games that you played as a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:36
 ; Not really. I was an outdoor kid. If the weather was good. I was outside.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:41
 ; So what did you do outside? Like, what were the things you did outside?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:44
 ; We'd go to Sand Creek and play all up and down the creek and kick cans down the street.
 ; Frank spent much of his time as a child playing outdoors. He would play down by the creek and kick cans down the street. He played with some neighborhood children that were close to his age. Frank was expected to help with the household chores (cleaning his bedroom, doing the dishes and hanging out clothes on the clothesline.) Washington School ; Lincoln School ; Chores Childhood 0 593 Favorite Activities as a Child Regan Siler 09:53
 ; Right. So, you just did what needed to be done. Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 10:05
 ; My favorite thing was probably going down to my granddad's and working in his garden with him. I like to garden. I like to be outdoors. And he always had a garden, and that was a good excuse to go down and work the garden, then I could have supper with him.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:23
 ; Oh, you had a little bit of an ulterior motive there. So what kind of things did he grow?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 10:30
 ; All kinds of vegetables, you know, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, tomatoes, just typical family garden.
 ; Frank loved to be outdoors as a child. One of his favorite things to do was help his granddad in his garden and then stay for supper. He also remembers helping his grandparents can peaches. Garden ; Porter (Okla.) Activities 0 731 School Regan Siler 12:11
 ; Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Did you first attend school at Washington?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 12:19
 ; The first six years. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:20
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 12:22
 ; Of course, that school is gone. Went to junior high school. That building's gone. Graduated 1957.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:32
 ; Now, was it just me or going to, I can remember going to the junior high, boy, there were some hot summers in there trying to was it like that for you guys, too? Where you just you're you're sweating on your papers and trying to learn in the summer. Did you have any influential teachers during that time? Any that particularly stuck out to you, or you feel like maybe mentored you or helped you during that time? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 13:00
 ; Well, Carolyn Foster [12/20/1912-7/10/2019]. 
 ; Frank attended Washington Elementary School in Bristow for the first six years of his schooling. He graduated from high school in 1957. He remembers Carolyn Foster being an influential teacher. Frank walked to school as a child. School ; Washington Elementary School ; Junior High School ; Carolyn Foster ; Neva Gurley ; History ; English ; Loren Roberts ; Alva (Okla.) ; North Central College School 0 858 Clubs and Organizations Regan Siler 14:18
 ; So, you were there the whole time? Okay. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations during your school life, which would probably be more in junior high or high school.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 14:29
 ; I was in the band from the seventh grade on. I was in the Projectionist Club in the high school. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:38
 ; Now, what is the Projectionist Club? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 14:40
 ; Well, of course, they don't have it now, but if the teachers needed to show a film, they had to have somebody that knew how to run the 16 millimeter projector. So we had a small club that we trained individuals to operate that equipment so they could have somebody to operate the equipment.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:03
 ; Well, that's neat. Well, I did a little, I did a little digging on you, and I think you were like, really band was like, really your thing? Wasn't it? Like you were very good at it, and you were, I think, what were you a vice president of the band?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 15:22
 ; No, no, I was a drum major.
 ; Frank was involved in band in school. He was a drum major and went to competitions. Frank also was in the Projectionist Club, which helped run the projector equipment in the school. He was part of a service organization called the Demolays which is like a junior Masonic organization. Frank also was involved with the Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship. High school ; Band (Instrumental group) ; Projectionist Club ; Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship ; Demolays ; Masonic Lodge ; Paula Atwell ; History Clubs ; Organization 0 1037 Air Force & ; College Frank Groom 17:17
 ; Once I got out of high school, and went in the Air Force, I found out how good of schools we actually had here. The way I was raised was a whole lot different than a lot of guys that I saw, like in basic training.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:36
 ; That you experienced that in the Air Force that you 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 17:39
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:40
 ; Interesting. So, in what way, and I guess expand on that, how do you how do you? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 17:45
 ; Well, a kid can't even sew a button back on his uniform. He doesn't have a clue on how to do that, or polish shoes. You have to teach them how to do this stuff when they're 18, 19, 20 years old.
 ; Frank attended the Air Force after he finished high school. He was in the Air Force for eight years. Frank received his APA at Grayson County Junior College. Then he finished his bachelor's degree at Texas A& ; M. He studied business administration and took accounting. Basic training (Military education) ; Air Force ; Grayson County Junior College ; Perrin Air Force Base ; Sherman (Tex.) ; Dennis (Tex.) ; Texas A& ; M ; Commerce (Tex.) ; Japan ; Business administration Air Force ; College 0 1249 Career Regan Siler 20:49
 ; So I know whenever we had talked before, you said one of your main jobs throughout your career was in management and long-haul trucking. Can you tell me anything about that? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 21:05
 ; Well, I had a when I worked for Pillsbury for several years, and I was when I left them, I was [indecipherable] manager. So, I had some trucking experience, and I, at that point, I had my own business. I had a high pressure cleaning business in Dallas area, and one of my customers, I told him I was thinking about getting out of it, because the EPA was starting to get real strict about soap going down this cleaning stuff going into drains and all that, so I was thinking about getting out of it. And he told me he had a friend that owned a trucking company, and he would check with him and see if he needed any employees. So, this fellow named Jay Trammel (ph) called me and invited me to come out and talk to him, which I did, and he hired me. And I went to work in their operating department as customer service and dispatching, and from there, it just that became my world. I really enjoyed it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 22:24
 ; So who were some of the companies that you worked for throughout your life?
 ; Frank mainly worked in long-haul trucking and management during his career. He worked for Pillsbury for several years. He also had a high-pressure cleaning business in Dallas. Frank traveled all over while trucking. He lived in several different states during his career-Arkansas, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania and Louisiana. After leaving his company in Louisiana, Frank moved back to Bristow and finished his career at John Christner Trucking and was there for 8 years. Career ; Pillsbury Company ; Dallas (Tex.) ; Jay Trammel ; J Travel Company ; JMI Transport ; Batesville (Ark.) ; Salt Lake City (Utah) ; Pacific States Transport ; Goodway Transport ; Pennsylvania ; Louisiana ; Bristow (Okla.) ; John Christner Trucking ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Career 0 1438 Childhood Home Regan Siler 23:58
 ; Okay, all right. Um, okay. Well, we got a little bit sidetracked, because I wanted to talk to you about your your truck, your trucking career. Let's back up a little bit. And can you tell me about the the house you grew up in? I know you said it was on East Seventh. Um, did you have your own room? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 24:25
 ; Oh, no. We had a three-bedroom house. My folks had what their bedroom. My sister got one by herself. Five boys were in the other bedroom. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:39
 ; Oh!
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 24:40
 ; Two double beds and one twin bed. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:43
 ; Oh, my goodness!
 ; Frank grew up in a three-bedroom house on East Seventh in Bristow. Frank shared a bedroom with all of his brothers. Frank spent a lot of his time outside. He had a big elm tree in his backyard that he would climb into and read his books. Seventh Street ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Junior High School Home 0 1561 Mealtimes 26:01
 ; Then everything changed. Okay, so tell me what meal times were like in your family. Did you eat together every night?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 26:13
 ; Every night.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 26:14
 ; I'm guessing mom cooked cooked meals, and everybody sat down.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 26:20
 ; Yep, that's the way we did it.
 ; Frank and his family ate dinner together every night. The children took turns with the cleanup. Frank's favorite meal was brown beans, cornbread and fried potatoes. His mother was well known for her pineapple upside down cakes. Mealtime ; army Mealtimes 0 1681 Community Activities Regan Siler 28:01
 ; Well, I imagine she would have to be for running restaurants for 40 years. So, thinking back to your life growing up around Bristow, did you have any like, favorite community activities? And by that I mean like you know you think about like Western Heritage Days, parades, county fair, what do you have any memory, specific memories of times like that, or things, I don't know, day camp and stuff like that that, that you did?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 28:32
 ; Didn't have day camp then. I had never heard of that until I moved back to Bristow. But [undecipherable] we had the swimming pool at that time. I would rather go to Falls Creek, I mean, Little Falls or down to Salt Creek somewhere. Swimming pool was, it didn't smell good.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:56
 ; You wanted to be in nature.
 ; Frank said he wasn't involved with many community activities besides playing with the band in parades. He would much rather swim in Salt Creek or Little Falls than the city pool. He would rather be in nature. Restaurant ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Western Heritage Days ; Salt Creek Community Activities 0 1756 Businesses Around Bristow Regan Siler 29:16
 ; Okay, alright, um, do you remember some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 29:28
 ; Think back, I can probably think of most of them, but the ones I miss are, like, JC Penney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store, Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. I could go and stand and look and watch, help, fix watches and stuff for hours.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 29:55
 ; Well, I think it's neat because I came to Bristow in the, probably, early 80s, and it seems like there was a time before then, it seems like I kind of came at a time when Bristow was maybe kind of on a decline. And, so, to hear how Bristow was before that is has been really interesting to me, because it was a pretty it was a pretty happening town back in the day.
 ; Frank still remembers some of the businesses that were in Bristow when he was young. He remembers JCPenney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store and Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. Frank says you couldn't find a parking space on Main Street on Fridays and Saturdays because it was so busy. Bristow (Okla.) ; JCPenney ; Clark's Fine Clothes ; Mr. Silver's Jewelry Store ; Mr. Harvat's Jewelry Store ; Main Street ; Wal-Mart (Firm) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Lot-a-Burger Businesses 0 1940 Teenage Life Regan Siler 32:20
 ; Oh, my goodness! Well, that's cool. Um, did you have a favorite place to hang out as a teenager?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 32:29
 ; Skating rink, probably, and Anchor Drive-In. That was after you get your car. You'd go to the Anchor.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 32:38
 ; So, was cruising Main a thing back then? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 32:41
 ; Oh, yeah.
 ; Frank says the skating rink was the place to on Friday and Saturday nights when he was a teenager. He also spent a lot of time at Anchor Drive-In. Dragging Main was also a popular activity among the teens. Skating rinks ; Anchor Drive-In ; Main Street ; High school ; Virginia Schrader Teenage Life 0 2028 Television Frank Groom 33:48
 ; Yep, we didn't have the TV like we have now. I can remember when we got our first TV. We were the first people in that whole section of town to get a TV set. So, Harold [Harold White] that had the TV shop, come out, put it in, put the antenna up, and all that. You couldn't stir the people in the living room. All the neighbors were there to watch TV, and it was green.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:18
 ; It was green?! 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 34:19
 ; Yeah, it had a greenish tent. It wasn't nice, sharp, black and white, you know, it was kind of the greenish color.
 ; Frank remembers when his family got their first TV. He says it wasn't a sharp black and white but had a greenish color. Frank didn't watch much television and still doesn't except for the news and NASCAR races. Television ; Harold White ; NASCAR (Association) ; Wal-Mart (Firm) Television 0 2264 Music Regan Siler 37:44
 ; Did you enjoy listening to music growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 37:47
 ; Yes, but I've got away from that, because I'm so hard of hearing that I've got a six year old pickup that's got a brand new radio that's never been turned on.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:00
 ; Are you serious?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 38:02
 ; Too distracting.
 ; Frank remembers listening to Eddy Arnold on the radio growing up. He prefers older music. Because of his hearing, Frank does not listen to music now. He says it is too distracting. Frank has never turned on the radio in his six-year-old pickup. Music ; Radio ; Band (Instrumental group) ; Eddy Arnold Music 0 2338 Medical Care Regan Siler 38:58
 ; Well, I can't completely disagree with you on that. So, what was medical care like for you and your family growing up? Did you have a family doctor? Did you take care of things at home?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:12
 ; Well, some of both. Our family doctor was Dr. Harz who was a chiropractor, and he was on the third floor over the OG& ; E building.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:26
 ; Really? I've not heard of him. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:30
 ; I don't believe that. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:30
 ; I don't think I have. I hear a lot about like, Dr King and but you say Harrs like H A R R S?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:39
 ; H A R Z. He was German.
 ; Frank and his family used Dr. Harz as their family doctor. Frank went to him until he joined the Air Force. Frank never went to the dentist until he was in the Air Force. He remembers having the chicken pox as a young child. He was at his grandparents' house in Chandler and his grandmother isolated Frank in an upstairs bedroom for three days Medical care ; Doctor ; Dr. Harz ; Chiropractors ; OG& ; E ; Air Force ; Dentist ; Chicken pox ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Mumps ; Measles ; Vaccines Medical care 0 2496 Church Regan Siler 41:36
 ; Okay, um, I was going to ask if you attended church, but I guess you attended the 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 41:42
 ; I started out at the Baptist Church. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 41:44
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 41:46
 ; I wised up and switched to the Methodist Church.
 ; Frank first attended the Baptist Church. Later he said he wised up and switched to the Methodist Church. Frank says the Methodist Church now is a different building but in the same location. Church ; Baptist Church ; Methodist Church Church 0 2524 Holidays Regan Siler 42:04
 ; Same location. Okay, um, so do you remember how your family celebrated holidays? Did they celebrate them in a big way? Like, say, tell me, like, what Christmas was like for you growing up.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 42:05
 ; Usually, we would go to Guthrie [Oklahoma], to my dad's folks, and I had an uncle that also had a restaurant, and that's where the family would meet for Christmas dinner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:22
 ; Oh, fun! 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 42:25
 ; At the restaurant. And I remember one of those Christmases, there was an old fella tapped on the door and tried to get in, and Uncle Marvin (ph) had the cafe, he went to the door and told him he's closed. And the old man, apparently, was like homeless, or anyway, invited him in and and they fed him. And then he asked if, if they had the jukebox that he wanted to listen to Rudolph.
 ; Frank and his family would travel to Guthrie, Oklahoma to celebrate Christmas. Frank's uncle had a restaurant, and his family would meet there for Christmas dinner. Frank did not grow up celebrating the Fourth of July. He still does not like the fireworks. Holidays ; Christmas ; Guthrie (Okla.) ; Restaurant ; Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer (Fictitious character) ; Jukebox ; Fourth of July ; Easter ; Halloween Holidays 0 2691 Handyman Business Regan Siler 44:51
 ; Don't even go outside. As a child, do you remember, do you did you have any thoughts of what you wanted to be when you grew up? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 45:02
 ; No.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:03
 ; So, you never, as a little kid, thought I'm going to be
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 45:05
 ; No, I really didn't.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:06
 ; You didn't. You were just too busy playing in the creek. So, we talked a little bit about your jobs, and you said that you were primarily throughout your career in trucking management, but then you had also told me around 2006 that you started your handyman business. Can you tell me about that and what inspired that?
 ; Around 2006, Frank started a handyman business. Frank had experience in handyman jobs from working with his dad and grandpa. Also, Frank and his wife flipped houses as they moved with Frank's trucking career. Handyman ; Chip Gaines ; Joanna Gaines ; Pennsylvania ; Louisiana Handyman ; Business 0 2812 Wife, Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom Regan Siler 46:52
 ; And, then, so did your wife just kind of what career was she into?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 46:58
 ; She worked at we lived in Texas for quite a long while, and she worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician. And she worked at Montgomery Ward for a while in there as accounting department. She waited tables when we first got married. When I was in the airforce, she worked at a restaurant.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 47:26
 ; So, since we're talking about your spouse, can you tell us what her name is?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 47:33
 ; Shirley Jean Dowdy [Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom 11/6/1938-1/29/2018]. We got married September 20, 1958.
 ; Frank was married to his wife, Shirley for 60 years. She passed away in 2018. They met while in high school and were married three years later. Shirley waited tables at a restaurant when they were newly married. She worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician when they lived in Texas. Shirley also worked at Montgomery Ward in the accounting department for a while. Wife ; Arlington (Tex.) ; Montgomery Ward ; Accounting ; Airforce ; Restaurant ; Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom ; High school Wife 0 2919 Engagement and Wedding Regan Siler 48:39
 ; 60 years. So, did you have, like, an engagement period? Did you propose and have an engagement period?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 48:47
 ; Well, yeah, kinda.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 48:50
 ; She was living after high school, she went to beauty school, beautician school, and I was working for a supermarket. Of cousre, we were back and forth all the time. I was living in Tulsa, and it just developed.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 48:50
 ; Kinda? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 49:13
 ; And that's that's that, huh? So, where did you guys end up getting married? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 49:20
 ; At the Methodist Church here in Bristow.
 ; After high school, Shirley attended beauty school in Tulsa. Frank was working at a supermarket. Their relationship grew and they became engaged. Frank and Shirley were married at the Methodist Church in Bristow. It was a small wedding with about 10 guests and the preacher. Engagement ; Beauty schools ; Supermarket ; Methodist Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Wedding ; Tulsa (Okla.) Engagement ; Wedding 0 2973 Early Years of Marriage Regan Siler 49:33
 ; Okay, okay. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? Was there, did you have struggles? Was it fun when, I mean,
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 49:44
 ; We always had fun, but gosh, we hadn't been, she had a beauty shop over on Oak Street after she went to school. And we rented an apartment down on Fifth Street, and she had a phone put in with the same number as the beauty shop. The next morning, the phone rang, and I asked, somebody asked for Shirley Groom. I said, who?! It took a while.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 50:23
 ; Oh, that's funny. You had to let that one sink in a little bit. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 50:29
 ; But shortly after that, I took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma.
 ; After marriage, Shirley had a beauty shop on Oak Street. They rented an apartment on Fifth Street. Shortly after marriage though, Frank took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma and they moved. Marriage ; Oak Street ; Fifth Street ; Shattuck (Okla.) ; Woodward (Okla.) ; office manager ; oil field ; Beauty shop Marriage 0 3091 Daughter, Stella Reni Groom Renner Frank Groom 51:31
 ; Have one daughter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:33
 ; And what's her full name?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:34
 ; Stella Reni, and her married name is Renner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:38
 ; Okay, um, and then did do I understand that she was, she also went into the military?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:48
 ; She she wanted to learn to fly.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:52
 ; She wanted to learn what? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:53
 ; To fly.
 ; Frank has one daughter, Stella. Stella was interested in learning how to fly when she was a teenager. They could not afford flying lessons, so she chose to join the Air Force. She ended up not being qualified to fly because she struggled with the landing. Stella chose a different path in the military and achieved many promotions. She retired from the military eight years ago and resides in Colorado. Stella Reni Groom Renner ; Military ; High school ; Military Academy ; air force ; Mississippi ; California ; Minuteman (Missile) ; Airman Performance Report ; Randolph Air Force Base (Tex.) ; Lieutenant Colonel ; Washington ; Monument (Colo.) ; Air Force Academy Daughter 0 3406 Grandson, Remington Shane Renner Frank Groom 56:46
 ; I've got one. Remington Shane Renner. He's 21 and he's in the Air Force stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia, and he's a cyber security guy.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:02
 ; Wow, so he's probably busy, right? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:06
 ; Yeah, he is unbelievably sharp on computers. Even in high school, he was named in high school as the outstanding computer science student.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:20
 ; Wow. And everyone in the family stayed in the Air Force, too.
 ; Frank has one grandson, Remington. Remington is in the Air Force and stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia. He works in cyber security. Grandson ; Remington Shane Renner ; air force ; Warner Robins (Ga.) ; High school ; army Grandson 0 3456 Parenting 57:36
 ; It would me! Well, so, do you remember any challenges being like a dad when when she was young, like challenges of being a dad?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:48
 ; Not really. We had a really good kid. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:53
 ; Sounds like it.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:54
 ; But anything she wanted to do we, we supported her, you know, she wanted to take dancing lessons. We got four years old. Started dancing lesson, and she continued dancing lessons since she graduated high school.
 ; Frank does not recall having challenges parenting his daughter. He says she was a good kid. Stella took dance lessons from four years old until she graduated high school. She was in band and even became the drum major of the band. Stella was very driven as a child and now as an adult. Parenting ; Dance ; High school ; Piano ; Air Force Academy ; Band directors ; Drum majors Parenting 0 3633 Important Invention Regan Siler 1:00:33
 ; So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:00:50
 ; Atomic energy, probably. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:00:52
 ; Wow, that's a that's a big one. And what and why do you why do you think that? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:00:59
 ; Well, it's the least polluting method of generating power that there is, except for disposing of the spent radioactive material. But it could be a game changer if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Yeah, we lived in Pennsylvania when the Three Mile Island thing, and it was a big to do in the news, but it wasn't a big to do right around where it happened.
 ; Frank believes the most important invention in his lifetime would be atomic energy. Frank says it's the least polluting method of generating power. He says it is the probably the least used invention, but it could be very beneficial if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Invention ; Atomic energy ; Pennsylvania ; Three Mile Island Nuclear Power Plant (Pa.) ; Technology Invention 0 3798 How the World is Different Regan Siler 1:03:18
 ; So, how do you feel the world is different than whenever you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:03:23
 ; Oh, gosh.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:26
 ; Like, let you count the ways. Well, just sum it up for me, what, what do you feel is the biggest difference?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:03:37
 ; I think the ability of people to get along. You know, they, I don't, I know people that don't even know the next door neighbors, you know? And if they, if they do, they don't say anything good about them.
 ; Frank feels like the world is so different from when he was a child. The biggest difference he feels is the ability of people to get along. Frank says people don't even know their next-door neighbors. If they do know the neighbors, they don't say anything good about them. World ; Neighbors World 0 3833 Public Service Regan Siler 1:03:53
 ; Right, right. Yeah, well, I feel like, and that's something else I wanted to touch on, I feel like you're somebody that's been very involved with public service and, all the different, I'd like for you to tell us about some of the boards that you have served and continue to serve on and and what drives you to do that.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:04:17
 ; Well, I'm on the city council now, and I previously served eight years. I'm on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services, and have been for since 2017. And I'm on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority, and I've been, I'm just going into my second year with that.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:04:42
 ; And what's your drive for, for being a part of all of those things?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:04:46
 ; Help. Just to be useful. Help people. I got involved with social services. The Foster Family donated the buildings to the social services.
 ; Frank has been involved in many different community activities and boards. He currently serves on the city council. He is on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services and has served since 2017. Frank is also on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority. He also served as president of the industrial authority. His biggest accomplishment with that was selling the old garment factory building. Frank was voted the Citizen of the Year in 2017. public service ; City councils ; Bristow Social Services ; Bristow Housing Authority ; Highway 48 ; George W. Krumme ; Citizen of the Year ; Social service ; Industrial Authority ; Kell Kelly Public service 0 4245 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 1:10:45
 ; Yeah, I do too. Okay, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:10:59
 ; Our biggest problem is Trump and the MAGA, what do they call them M A G A? And that far right-wing attitude. And where we're going to cure it is to get rid of it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:16
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:17
 ; And how do you, how do you, how do you get rid of it?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:20
 ; Well, you gotta vote out the ones that are in now and not vote the ones that are wanting to get in. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:27
 ; Okay, all right. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:29
 ; And I'm not a Democrat, by the way.
 ; Frank believes the nation's biggest problem right now is Donald Trump and the MAGA movement. He does not agree with the far right-wing attitude. Frank says he is not a Democrat. Nation ; Donald Trump ; Democrat Nation 0 4292 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:11:32
 ; Okay, have any historic events affected your life? And if so, how and like, for example, Oklahoma City Bombing, 911, COVID, any natural disasters. Anything affected you?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:48
 ; When John Kennedy was assassinated, I was in the Air Force, and I was, and I remember this real vividly. I was in the north hangar at Perrin Air Force Base. And there's probably 10 airplanes in it, and all this ground power equipment, people working, but somebody had a radio and that announcement came on, and just like that, it was dead silence in that hanger. Everything shut down, and we got where we could hear, you know, and listen to that announcement. I guess nothing happened at the hanger for a couple hours. It just, 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:54
 ; Oh, I can imagine. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:12:33
 ; Everybody couldn't believe it. And I remember that just as vividly as I mean, if I think real hard, I probably can tell you the guys that were standing around at the time.
 ; Frank vividly remembers several historic events that have happened in his lifetime. He was in the Air Force when John Kennedy was assassinated. Frank was on the phone with his Terminal Manager in Oklahoma City when the bombing occurred. He heard it over the phone. He was working at John Christner Trucking when 9/11 occurred. Historic Events ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; John F. Kennedy ; air force ; Perrin Air Force Base ; The Murrah Building ; Pennsylvania ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Feed the Children (Organization) ; John Christner Trucking Historic Events 0 4517 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:15:17
 ; Right. Yeah. Um, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:15:30
 ; I don't know if there's a lot of wisdom there. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:15:32
 ; I know you have to have some wisdom in there you want to share.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:15:37
 ; Not that I could think of, just, you know, treat people like you want to be treated.
 ; Frank finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says to treat people like you want to be treated. He also says to help people when they need it. Wisdom Wisdom 0 MP4 Franklin Ewing Groom, born August 14, 1939, in Chandler, Oklahoma, discussed his life and family history. His parents, Floyd Franklin Groom and Thelma Carmen Burris, owned restaurants in Bristow for 40 years. Franklin has five siblings, with four still living. He learned carpentry skills from his father and grandfather. Groom served in the Air Force for eight years, attended Grayson County College and Texas A& ; M, and worked in long-haul trucking management. He was involved in community service, including serving on the city council and boards for Bristow Social Services and Housing Authority. Groom emphasized the importance of public service and treating others well. Regan Siler This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 6, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Frank groom at the Bristow library annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? Frank Groom Franklin Ewing Groom. Regan Siler Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview? Frank Groom Yes, you do. Regan Siler Okay. So can you tell me when and where you were born? Frank Groom I was born August the 14th, 1939 in Chandler, Oklahoma. Regan Siler And can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's, let's start with your parents. What are your parents? Full names? Frank Groom My dad was Floyd Franklin Groom and my mom was Thelma Carmen Burris. Regan Siler Okay. Do you happen to know your, I have your your dad's birth date as 12/8/1913. Does that sound right? Regan Siler And then I have your mother as November 6, 1938 [correction 11/20/1911] Frank Groom Yeah. Frank Groom That's correct. Regan Siler Okay, um, do you have any siblings? Frank Groom No, not, not 1938 Regan Siler Not 19? Frank Groom Are you talking about my wife or mom? Regan Siler Oh, I had, I do have that wrong? Um, well, that's what I found online. So it's November 6, but the year is incorrect? Frank Groom My wife's birthday is November 6, 1938. Regan Siler Well, okay, I just have that wrong, then. I apologize. I will, I will get the right date on that. Sorry about that. Okay, so do you have any siblings? Frank Groom I've got five. Regan Siler You have five siblings. Okay, what are their names? Frank Groom Well, the oldest was my sister Murel Dean Groom Rains. Regan Siler And you said Murel? Frank Groom Murel. Regan Siler Okay Frank Groom M u r e l. Murel. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Frank Groom And the next one, just older than me, was William Earl Groom. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom And after me, there's Gilbert Lee Groom, who still lives here in Bristow. And Joe Lynn Groom, who lives in South Dakota, and Jimmy Don Groom. He passed away several years ago. Regan Siler Okay, so you so how many siblings are still living? Frank Groom There's still four, five of us. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom I'm sorry, four, four of us. Two have passed away. My older sister passed away. Regan Siler Okay, okay, um, what type of work, I know we had talked a little bit, but what, what type of work did your parents do? Frank Groom My dad was a carpenter contractor, and my mom had the restaurant. Regan Siler Okay, and you had mentioned that your family had run like restaurants in the Bristow area for around 40 years. Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler And which restaurants were those? Frank Groom Well, they had one on Main Street. I think, if this real little, I think it's called the Blue Front, which is down between Fifth and Sixth Street on the west side. And then they leased the Kelly Lake truck stop and had that until the turnpike opened in '54 and that killed the truck traffic on 66 so they left that and opened one on main street called the Harvey House Cafe. Regan Siler And you said that was located where the Dollar General is now, currently. So did your did your mother run it? Did she cook there, like what? Frank Groom All of it. Regan Siler All of D, all of the above. Okay. Frank Groom And then when Safeway bought that corner property to put the Safeway store where Dollar General is now, they moved up the street and changed the name of it to Mom's Home Cooking. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Stay there until they retired in the 70s, probably early 70s. Regan Siler So did, did you and your siblings ever work at any of those restaurants? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Didn't have any choice? Regan Siler It was just part of it. So, now, I know you said, and, which, I'm kind of skipping ahead, but knowing that your dad was a carpenter, is that where you because I know you had the handyman business, which we'll talk about a little later on in the interview. But is that where you learned all your skills? Frank Groom Yes, and working with him and my granddad. My Granddad, Burris was also a carpenter, and was a real good teacher. So I learned a lot from my grandpa. Regan Siler To me, that is some of the most you can't put a price tag on the knowledge that you can gain from like learning a trade like that, like carpentry, which I feel like we're kind of losing in this day and age as far as craftsmanship and quality of work and things like that. So, I guess you did you enjoy it as a young person? Frank Groom Oh yeah, yeah. Regan Siler So so it wasn't something forced on you, it's something you you really wanted to learn and enjoyed doing. Frank Groom Yeah, I learned how to sharpen chisels, tools, saws and most people don't go have any idea how to do that. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So, yeah, it was a good experience. Regan Siler Good experience. So, did your dad just do any kind of carpentry work, or was there, did he have like, a specialty? Frank Groom Well, no, not really. He did anything that a carpenter would do. He built several houses here in Bristow, and remodeled and put roofs on just whatever people needed. Regan Siler Whatever needed to be done. So, did you, has your family, when did your has your family always lived in the Bristow area? I know you said you were born in Chandler. Frank Groom Well, we moved here when I was, like, four years old. So that would have been 1943 we moved to Bristow. Regan Siler And did your grand, did your grandparents live here? Frank Groom They did after we lived here. Regan Siler Oh, okay, so they moved here. They followed you here. Okay. Frank Groom My dad had a, well, they worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II. Regan Siler At the what plant? Frank Groom The bomber plant. Regan Siler The bomber plant. Oh, wow. Frank Groom In Tulsa, and my dad built scaffolding to go up around the airplanes for people to work on them. And my mom was a Rosie the Riveter type person. She put aluminum panels together for the airplanes. Regan Siler Oh, wow, that's amazing! Frank Groom And I remember they had a 1939 Buick, and there was six of them. They worked second shift, and then six people from Bristow, my dad drove, and the others rode with him, because that's the only way they could have get enough ration coupons to have enough gasoline to get there. My goodness, so and so, how long did he, how long did, what was the name of the, do you remember what the name of that, the bomb, the bomber plant was, or the? Frank Groom Well, it's where American Airlines has their repair depot now. Regan Siler So, it was out there? Frank Groom I really don't know what it was called. Regan Siler Okay, wow. And how long did he do that? Do you remember? Frank Groom Until the war was over. Until '47. Regan Siler Wow. Okay, um, so growing up, did you have, obviously, your grandparents were here. Did you have other family that lived nearby you? Frank Groom No. Our closest relatives were in Guthrie [Oklahoma]. Regan Siler Really? Okay. So just your grandparents on your dad's side? Frank Groom No, my mom's side. Regan Siler Your mom's side were the ones that lived here close to you. Okay, um, so let's talk a little bit about your early childhood. These are just some kind of fun questions to remember. Do you remember having any favorite toys or favorite games that you played as a child? Frank Groom Not really. I was an outdoor kid. If the weather was good. I was outside. Regan Siler So what did you do outside? Like, what were the things you did outside? Frank Groom We'd go to Sand Creek and play all up and down the creek and kick cans down the street. Regan Siler So did you mainly play with your siblings, or did you have friends that would come over? Frank Groom I had some little friends that lived in the neighborhood that's my age. I remember one of them was a little black boy that lived catty corner down a block or two, and when we started first grade, I had to go all the way to Washington School, and he only went a couple blocks down the street to Lincoln School. And I didn't think that was fair. He got the two blocks I had to walk six! I actually went to Washington School, also. Okay. Well, so did you have any chores that you were expected to do as a youngster? Frank Groom Well, we helped with, we took turns doing dishes, helped mom in the kitchen, hung out clothes on the clothesline on wash day, cleaned our own bedrooms, that kind of stuff. Regan Siler Right. So, you just did what needed to be done. Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? Frank Groom My favorite thing was probably going down to my granddad's and working in his garden with him. I like to garden. I like to be outdoors. And he always had a garden, and that was a good excuse to go down and work the garden, then I could have supper with him. Regan Siler Oh, you had a little bit of an ulterior motive there. So what kind of things did he grow? Frank Groom All kinds of vegetables, you know, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, tomatoes, just typical family garden. Regan Siler So did that, I guess, kind of instill a love for growing things with you? Frank Groom Yeah, I still like do that. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. I wish we had a little more of that going on these days. I think that's maybe a little bit where we've, I don't know, lost some connection to family and doing things like that, because I remember, you know, picking and snapping green beans with my grandpa. And, you know, that's when you sit and you talk, and they tell you stories. Frank Groom Well, my mom and my grandfather canned a lot of stuff, you know. I remember they'd go to Porter [Oklahoma] every year and get, bring back, the backseat ofthe car would be full of peaches for us and other people. And we would can peaches for, seemed like a week, make jelly and everything. Regan Siler But I think doing that, you know, as a young person, you end up learning a lot of skills that I think, like I said, I feel, are kind of lost on, you know, probably my generation and younger, if that wasn't kind of handed down to you or something you did, traditionally, with your family. Do you remember collecting anything or having any, you know, having anything like that that you collected as a child? Frank Groom No, didn't do any of that. Regan Siler Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Did you first attend school at Washington? Frank Groom The first six years. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Of course, that school is gone. Went to junior high school. That building's gone. Graduated 1957. Regan Siler Now, was it just me or going to, I can remember going to the junior high, boy, there were some hot summers in there trying to was it like that for you guys, too? Where you just you're you're sweating on your papers and trying to learn in the summer. Did you have any influential teachers during that time? Any that particularly stuck out to you, or you feel like maybe mentored you or helped you during that time? Frank Groom Well, Carolyn Foster [12/20/1912-7/10/2019]. Frank Groom She's been mentioned a lot in my interviews. Yeah, very beloved. Frank Groom She was a jewel. And Mrs. Gurley, Neva Gurley [5/1/1902-9/16/1997], when I was in high school. Mr. Roberts taught, I don't remember what, history, I guess. Regan Siler So, did, didn't Mrs. Foster, didn't she teach English? Okay, yeah. And was that in high school? Frank Groom That was in junior high. Regan Siler In junior high, okay? Frank Groom And Loren Roberts was a history teacher in junior high. Top notch guy. He later took a job at the college in Alva. I don't remember the name of what that is, North Central, anyway, that's Regan Siler That's where he ended up going? Frank Groom Finished out his career. Regan Siler Do you remember, so, I guess you just said I was going to ask, do you remember how you got to school as a youngster, but you had to walk six blocks. Frank Groom Grade school, yes, whatever it was to the junior high. Regan Siler To the junior high. So, where did you actually live in town? Frank Groom Lived on the corner of seventh east, seventh and Oak Street, Regan Siler And did you live there pretty much your whole Frank Groom Until I graduate from high school. Regan Siler So, you were there the whole time? Okay. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations during your school life, which would probably be more in junior high or high school. Frank Groom I was in the band from the seventh grade on. I was in the Projectionist Club in the high school. Regan Siler Now, what is the Projectionist Club? Frank Groom Well, of course, they don't have it now, but if the teachers needed to show a film, they had to have somebody that knew how to run the 16 millimeter projector. So we had a small club that we trained individuals to operate that equipment so they could have somebody to operate the equipment. Regan Siler Well, that's neat. Well, I did a little, I did a little digging on you, and I think you were like, really band was like, really your thing? Wasn't it? Like you were very good at it, and you were, I think, what were you a vice president of the band? Frank Groom No, no, I was a drum major. Regan Siler Drum Major, okay, and so you went to competitions and Frank Groom Yeah, I played solos at competition. Never did come out top dog, but always went, trying. Regan Siler Okay, um, and then were you on the Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship? You were involved in your church? Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler Um, and then explain to me what, is it Demolays? What is that? Frank Groom Well, it's kind of like a junior Masonic organization sponsored by the Masonic Lodge. Regan Siler Oh, okay. Frank Groom And it follows some of that ritualistic stuff. But it's just for, I think you're out when you're 21 that's as high as the upper age level. Regan Siler So, you've always kind of had a heart for for that kind of thing, because, I mean, you're still, you're still. Frank Groom It's a service organization. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom I don't even think they have one now. Regan Siler Well, I honestly, hadn't ever even heard of it until I have worked on some previous interviews. And Paula Atwell is my go-to history lady at the at the depot. So, she I was like, what is the what is the Demolays? Like, I had never heard of it, um, but sometimes I wish we still had programs like that. It seems like that would be good for our youth to be more, a little more service minded. Frank Groom Yeah, I think so. Regan Siler Yeah, okay, um, did you enjoy school? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Regan Siler You did? Did you did you do pretty well academically, or? Frank Groom I passed. Regan Siler Okay, fair enough. Did you have a favorite subject? Frank Groom Probably history. Regan Siler History. Frank Groom Once I got out of high school, and went in the Air Force, I found out how good of schools we actually had here. The way I was raised was a whole lot different than a lot of guys that I saw, like in basic training. Regan Siler That you experienced that in the Air Force that you Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler Interesting. So, in what way, and I guess expand on that, how do you how do you? Frank Groom Well, a kid can't even sew a button back on his uniform. He doesn't have a clue on how to do that, or polish shoes. You have to teach them how to do this stuff when they're 18, 19, 20 years old. Regan Siler And you felt you had very well rounded skills. Well, that's good, that's good to know. So then you did attend college. So where did you tell me about that a little bit. Where did you end up going? Frank Groom After I got to the Air Force, I went to Grayson County Junior College, which it's where Perrin Air Force Base used to be between Dennis and Sherman, Texas. I went it all at night and got my APA there. And then I went to Texas A& ; amp ; M at Commerce, Texas, and finished out my degree, my bachelor's degree there. Regan Siler Okay, so I guess let's back up so you were in the Air Force. And how long were you in the Air Force? Frank Groom Eight years. Regan Siler Eight years. And can you give us any I guess your thoughts on what that experience was like? Frank Groom Well, I like, I liked it. I I enjoyed my service. Travel a lot. Got to see a lot of things. But, when I got out in '67 not sure how I should say this, but I came back from Japan. I was a Staff Sergeant E5 and I replaced the Chief Master Sergeant who was an E8, and because I had already passed all my proficiency stuff to qualify for a supervisor position at his level, but I had two tech sergeants that were still three-level because they weren't smart enough to pass the five-level test, much less the seven-level test. So, I went E5 and I've got E6's working for me, which don't work, but the upper management Air Force wouldn't do anything about it. And that really turned me against the process. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So I quit. Regan Siler You were done. Frank Groom After eight years. Regan Siler After eight years. Do you think if that would have been different or could have been resolved, you would have maybe stayed longer? Frank Groom Yeah, I do. But I didn't see it changing. Regan Siler Right, right. So, then you came back and went to college. So what did you study in college? Frank Groom Business. Regan Siler Business. Frank Groom Yeah, business administration. Took a lot of accounting courses, My minor is in economics and finance. My major is Business Administration. Regan Siler So I know whenever we had talked before, you said one of your main jobs throughout your career was in management and long-haul trucking. Can you tell me anything about that? Frank Groom Well, I had a when I worked for Pillsbury for several years, and I was when I left them, I was [indecipherable] manager. So, I had some trucking experience, and I, at that point, I had my own business. I had a high pressure cleaning business in Dallas area, and one of my customers, I told him I was thinking about getting out of it, because the EPA was starting to get real strict about soap going down this cleaning stuff going into drains and all that, so I was thinking about getting out of it. And he told me he had a friend that owned a trucking company, and he would check with him and see if he needed any employees. So, this fellow named Jay Trammel (ph) called me and invited me to come out and talk to him, which I did, and he hired me. And I went to work in their operating department as customer service and dispatching, and from there, it just that became my world. I really enjoyed it. Regan Siler So who were some of the companies that you worked for throughout your life? Frank Groom Well, I worked for J Lines (ph), which was J Travel Company (ph). Then I worked for JMI Transport out of Batesville, Arkansas. Worked for another little trucking company in Dallas for just a little while. Then I went to, what's the name of that, out of Salt Lake City, Utah, that's gone by the wayside, PS, PST Vans. That stood for Pacific States Transport and they just shortened it to PST. Now I went from there to Goodway Transport in Pennsylvania, after living in Salt Lake City for a while. Regan Siler So, you you went, you lived in Texas, then you went to Salt Lake, and then you went to Pennsylvania? Frank Groom Yeah. Went to Louisiana. Regan Siler So you, you, you got around for a while. So when did you end up landing back in Bristow? Frank Groom Well, in '97 I left the company in Louisiana and moved back to Bristow. At that point, I went to work for John Christner Trucking in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom And retired from there. Regan Siler And how long were you at John Christner? Frank Groom Little over eight years. Regan Siler Okay, all right. Um, okay. Well, we got a little bit sidetracked, because I wanted to talk to you about your your truck, your trucking career. Let's back up a little bit. And can you tell me about the the house you grew up in? I know you said it was on East Seventh. Um, did you have your own room? Frank Groom Oh, no. We had a three-bedroom house. My folks had what their bedroom. My sister got one by herself. Five boys were in the other bedroom. Regan Siler Oh! Frank Groom Two double beds and one twin bed. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom All in one room. Regan Siler So did you get along with your sibling siblings, or did that, did that make for some contentious times? Frank Groom There were times. Regan Siler I would imagine! So and you said you spent most of your time outside, which I think a lot of people from your generation did. It's not like it is now, where you can't hardly kick a kid outside. Frank Groom We had a big elm tree just outside the back door, and there was a place in it where I could set on limb. It's almost like a recliner and but I couldn't fall off, but the way the way the limbs were. And I would take my book and I'd climb that tree and get that nice spot. Regan Siler Oh, that's awesome! You don't have a picture of that, do you? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler Oh, man! Frank Groom We didn't have smartphones. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a neat place to hang out. Frank Groom Yeah, it was. I spent a lot of time up there and just get away from everybody. I could read not be bothered. Regan Siler Right! So, how old were you around when you hung out in your tree? How old would you say you were? Frank Groom Up through junior high school, probably. Well, until I got a car. Then everything changed. Okay, so tell me what meal times were like in your family. Did you eat together every night? Frank Groom Every night. Regan Siler I'm guessing mom cooked cooked meals, and everybody sat down. Frank Groom Yep, that's the way we did it. Regan Siler I like that. Um, and then you said everybody just kind of took turns on cleanup. Did you help cook too, or did mom, usually? Frank Groom I didn't, but my older sister did, and then my older brother would help but, Gib, the one younger than me, he's the only one that wound up in anything with food service. He went into the Army as as a cook and retired as a cook. Regan Siler Wow. Okay. Frank Groom [undecipherable] Regan Siler Wow. Okay, um, do you remember having a favorite meal? Or, you know, did you come away with any favorite recipes that your your mom made? Frank Groom My favorite then and still is, is probably brown beans, cornbread, fried potatoes. Regan Siler Man, you know, I've talked to some of my friends that aren't from here, and they can't wrap their head around that meal like and I'm like, I admit, I don't know, maybe it's like a southern thing or something, but that's, we always had that. It's good. Frank Groom That's probably still my favorite. Regan Siler Did your mom fix any favorite desserts or anything that you remember? Frank Groom Well, she was well known for her pineapple upside down cakes, which were fabulous, but that was a standout. That's what we always wanted. Regan Siler That was that was a treat, huh? Frank Groom She was just a super cook. Regan Siler Well, I imagine she would have to be for running restaurants for 40 years. So, thinking back to your life growing up around Bristow, did you have any like, favorite community activities? And by that I mean like you know you think about like Western Heritage Days, parades, county fair, what do you have any memory, specific memories of times like that, or things, I don't know, day camp and stuff like that that, that you did? Frank Groom Didn't have day camp then. I had never heard of that until I moved back to Bristow. But [undecipherable] we had the swimming pool at that time. I would rather go to Falls Creek, I mean, Little Falls or down to Salt Creek somewhere. Swimming pool was, it didn't smell good. Regan Siler You wanted to be in nature. Frank Groom Yeah, I wanted to be outside. Swimming pool just didn't, didn't hack it for me. Regan Siler Wasn't your, wasn't your cup of tea. So did you? So were you involved with any of like the Western Heritage Days activities? Frank Groom No, not back then other than in the band. We had parades and all that. Regan Siler Okay, alright, um, do you remember some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town? Frank Groom Think back, I can probably think of most of them, but the ones I miss are, like, JC Penney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store, Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. I could go and stand and look and watch, help, fix watches and stuff for hours. Regan Siler Well, I think it's neat because I came to Bristow in the, probably, early 80s, and it seems like there was a time before then, it seems like I kind of came at a time when Bristow was maybe kind of on a decline. And, so, to hear how Bristow was before that is has been really interesting to me, because it was a pretty it was a pretty happening town back in the day. Frank Groom Yeah, I can remember, up until I left and after graduating, that you couldn't find a parking space on Main Street on Friday and Saturday. And a farmer could drive their teams of the horses and park them past the alley and stake them out, so they could get up on Main Street. But, gosh, from especially Fifth Street to Ninth Street, especially, it was just wall to wall people and cars. Regan Siler So, what do you what do you think attributed to the change in Bristow? Regan Siler Walmart. You're not the only one that says that they, you know, feel like there was quite a downturn for the town once Walmart came. It's a real double-edged sword, isn't it? Yeah, interesting. Okay, um, did you have a favorite place, this is probably a silly question, did you have a favorite place to eat, or did you primarily eat at home? Frank Groom Walmart. Frank Groom Well, either the cafe or at home. Regan Siler Either one was your mom. Frank Groom About once a month, my dad would load us all up in a car and we'd go to, what's the name of that? It's a hamburger place in west Tulsa [Oklahoma] and all, you can't even go in. You have to order at the window andsit in a car at a table up the street or something. But that was the big deal. Once a month, we would go up there, all of you would get a hamburger and a milk shake. Regan Siler So that was a treat! Frank Groom That was a treat, yeah. Regan Siler And you don't remember the name of the place? Frank Groom What-a-Burger. Well, no, Lot-a-Burger. Regan Siler Lot-a-Burger. Frank Groom Yeah, it's still there. Regan Siler Really? Frank Groom The tree still there beside it. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Well, that's cool. Um, did you have a favorite place to hang out as a teenager? Frank Groom Skating rink, probably, and Anchor Drive-In. That was after you get your car. You'd go to the Anchor. Regan Siler So, was cruising Main a thing back then? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Regan Siler Okay, yeah. I kind of miss those days. Frank Groom We'd turn around at Fourth Street, Fourth and the railroad tracks, go up to Tenth and go turn around behind the DX station and drag main again. Regan Siler See to me, that's when times were fun because we we still drug Main, even when I was in high school. But it kind of seems like it's not really a thing anymore. Like you drive through town at night and it's pretty dead. Frank Groom Yeah, well, it wasn't them. Yeah, you could see everybody. Regan Siler So, then skating rink time was that, before you got your car, that you would go? Frank Groom And after. Regan Siler And after. Frank Groom That was just, Regan Siler And that was down here at the at the old skating rink? Frank Groom Downstairs. Mrs. Barnett, Virginia Schrader, and Mrs. Beistle were the operators. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom That was the place to be the on Friday, Saturday night. Regan Siler Back when times were a little simpler. Frank Groom Yep, we didn't have the TV like we have now. I can remember when we got our first TV. We were the first people in that whole section of town to get a TV set. So, Harold [Harold White] that had the TV shop, come out, put it in, put the antenna up, and all that. You couldn't stir the people in the living room. All the neighbors were there to watch TV, and it was green. Regan Siler It was green?! Frank Groom Yeah, it had a greenish tent. It wasn't nice, sharp, black and white, you know, it was kind of the greenish color. Regan Siler Greenish color, I had never, so do you remember any particular TV shows or anything that you got to watch that was exciting for you? Frank Groom Actually, I did watch much TV. I still don't. About the only thing I watch is news and NASCAR races. That's it. Frank Groom Oh, big time. Kids nowadays don't know how to entertain themselves if they don't have a cell phone or some kind of tablet or device, device to play games and stuff on. Regan Siler Well, you know, it's kind of like the the Walmart situation. You know, when I do these interviews and I talk to people about how life was back then versus how it is now, and, you know, I know there's always a place for technology and that, you know, it's beneficial in so many ways. But, again, it's kind of a double edged sword. I think it take, it has really taken away from like relationships and being outside and doing things. Would you agree? Regan Siler And it seems like to me, it kind of stifles creativity because you you're not forced, because I know, when I grew up in the country, we would build weird forts in the woods, or, you know, we were in the creeks, or, you know, we would even sometimes play in the dump to see what we could get out to, you know, make a little house out of or whatever. And, I mean, I just don't think there's a lot of that that that goes on, because everybody has a, so for me, doing these interviews and hearing about how it used to be is kind of a, you know, makes me wish it was still like that in some ways. Frank Groom Well, like when I'd go, my grandparents lived out on Jackson, down past Fourth Street, about third or fourth block, and of course, it was half a mile from where we lived to their house. But I'd [indecipherable] out there, I had to walk. I had an old an old bicycle wheel. Didn't have a tire on it, just took metal ring of spokes, and I'd take a stick and I'd roll that thing all the way to grandpa's house. Or I'd, I'd get a can out of the trash, I'd kick it all the way to grandpa's house. Regan Siler I've actually had, I actually had another gentleman that I interviewed that said he did the exact same thing. Frank Groom I mean, something to do. Kids don't do that now. In fact, you can go up and drive around after school, and you don't see a teenager out anywhere. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah. I, I agree. Um, do you remember, back kind of on the TV thing, I know you said you didn't really watch it much, but do you remember happening, did you happen to see any pivotal moments on on TV growing up? Like I remember, one person said they remember witnessing like landing on the moon, and was there any pivotal moments you remember watching on TV? Frank Groom Not that I recall. Regan Siler Did you enjoy listening to music growing up? Frank Groom Yes, but I've got away from that, because I'm so hard of hearing that I've got a six year old pickup that's got a brand new radio that's never been turned on. Regan Siler Are you serious? Frank Groom Too distracting. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom I tried to listen and say I'm hard of hearing anyway, so I just don't, I just don't turn it on. Regan Siler And you didn't listen to music much as that seems crazy with you being in band and having been so involved with bands. Frank Groom Have you listened to today's music?! Frank Groom Well, I'm kind of old fashioned. I like older music, actually, but I just didn't know if, growing up, if there was any particular artist or music that you that you likd. Frank Groom Eddy Arnold, I remember him real well. That's probably really only the one that I really like to listen to, but I like, you know, back then you get all kinds of music on the radio, but now it's junk. I just don't care for it. Regan Siler Well, I can't completely disagree with you on that. So, what was medical care like for you and your family growing up? Did you have a family doctor? Did you take care of things at home? Frank Groom Well, some of both. Our family doctor was Dr. Harz who was a chiropractor, and he was on the third floor over the OG& ; amp ; E building. Regan Siler Really? I've not heard of him. Frank Groom I don't believe that. Regan Siler I don't think I have. I hear a lot about like, Dr King and but you say Harrs like H A R R S? Frank Groom H A R Z. He was German. Regan Siler Oh, okay. Frank Groom Had the strongest hands, but he was our family doctor until I left and went in the Air Force. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom So, if you're too sick to find those three flights of stairs, you're too sick to see him. You had to go somewhere else. Regan Siler You're just out of luck then, huh? Frank Groom But I never went to a dentist until I was in the Air Force. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom That's why I've got a set of false teeth now. Regan Siler Well, so do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything like that growing up that you or your family experienced? Frank Groom Well, I can remember having the chicken pox. I was I don't think I started school yet, and my grandparents still lived on the farm over by Chandler [Oklahoma], and that's where I was while I broke out. They put me in a bedroom upstairs and hung quilts over the windows, and I stayed in there for like three days. Regan Siler So, you were isolated. They put you in isolation. Frank Groom My grandma isolated me. She'd bring me some food. Regan Siler Slide it under the blanket. Frank Groom But when the mumps, there was a big deal on the mumps, and my mom and I was the only two in the family that didn't get them. Frank Groom Really?! Frank Groom But my dad, but all my siblings were that laid up with the mumps. Regan Siler Yeah, that sounds pretty miserable to not that the chicken pox are a walk in the park, but the I'd heard that the moms are pretty, pretty miserable. Frank Groom Of course, we all had measles, all that stuff. Regan Siler So, you had all the stuff that we get vaccinated for now. Frank Groom Oh yeah. Regan Siler Okay, um, I was going to ask if you attended church, but I guess you attended the Frank Groom I started out at the Baptist Church. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom I wised up and switched to the Methodist Church. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom It's still there. Regan Siler Oh, okay, okay, um, and is that in the same, like, the same building down here on Frank Groom Well, of course, they tore the old church down and built what's there now, but, yeah, same location. Regan Siler Same location. Okay, um, so do you remember how your family celebrated holidays? Did they celebrate them in a big way? Like, say, tell me, like, what Christmas was like for you growing up. Frank Groom Usually, we would go to Guthrie [Oklahoma], to my dad's folks, and I had an uncle that also had a restaurant, and that's where the family would meet for Christmas dinner. Regan Siler Oh, fun! Frank Groom At the restaurant. And I remember one of those Christmases, there was an old fella tapped on the door and tried to get in, and Uncle Marvin (ph) had the cafe, he went to the door and told him he's closed. And the old man, apparently, was like homeless, or anyway, invited him in and and they fed him. And then he asked if, if they had the jukebox that he wanted to listen to Rudolph. Regan Siler Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer? Frank Groom That's first time I ever heard it. The played it on the jukebox. Regan Siler Really? Frank Groom On a Christmas day. Regan Siler Oh, wow! Frank Groom And I remember that for some reason. Regan Siler Well, that was a core memory. It stuck out to you, Frank Groom Yeah, it did, and the fact that Uncle Marvin (ph) let the old fella come in and eat with us. I thought that was just a classy deal for him to do that. Regan Siler Yeah, a kind gesture. Frank Groom And I've saw my mom do it many times. Frank Groom Restaurant was always open. Regan Siler Right. Well, that's a neat story. Um, did you celebrate any other holidays, like the Fourth of July, Easter, Halloween, anything? Regan Siler Yes, you guys were always working. Frank Groom And Fourth of July is not a big deal to me. I despise fireworks of any kind. Regan Siler Yeah, I can imagine. Frank Groom I had a, and I don't remember his name, but he lost part of this finger the end of this one, and part of his thumb. He had a big firecracker and his his dad lit it for him, and he didn't throw it quick enough. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. So that was enough for you. Frank Groom I had nothing to do with fireworks. I grew up without them. My daughter grew up without them. Regan Siler So not your thing. Frank Groom Not my thing. Regan Siler Not your thing. It's not my dog's thing, either. Frank Groom Where I live I can sit on the porch and watch the city display. Don't even go outside. Regan Siler Don't even go outside. As a child, do you remember, do you did you have any thoughts of what you wanted to be when you grew up? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler So, you never, as a little kid, thought I'm going to be Frank Groom No, I really didn't. Regan Siler You didn't. You were just too busy playing in the creek. So, we talked a little bit about your jobs, and you said that you were primarily throughout your career in trucking management, but then you had also told me around 2006 that you started your handyman business. Can you tell me about that and what inspired that? Frank Groom Well, of course, my experience working with my dad, my grandpa, I knew how to do a lot of stuff, and people that knew me, Regan Siler They knew that, didn't they? Frank Groom Well, my wife and I were flipping houses before we ever heard of the expression. Regan Siler So, you were before Chip and Joanna Gaines, is that what you are saying? Frank Groom You bet. A long time before that. The house we had, the first house we had here in town was our 21st house in16 years. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom Would buy one, live in it, fix it up, sell it, buy another one. Just and we moved a lot. Seemed like the only way you get ahead in the trucking business and change jobs. Go from a dispatcher to a manager to, you know, whatever. So, people get to know you and, hey Frank, come up here to Pennsylvania and talk to us about this job. Regan Siler Right, right. Frank Groom When they that they're going to go belly up, come down to Louisian and go to work for me, something like that. Regan Siler So, your jobs are what really drove where you guys ended. Frank Groom Right. Regan Siler And, then, so did your wife just kind of what career was she into? Frank Groom She worked at we lived in Texas for quite a long while, and she worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician. And she worked at Montgomery Ward for a while in there as accounting department. She waited tables when we first got married. When I was in the airforce, she worked at a restaurant. Regan Siler So, since we're talking about your spouse, can you tell us what her name is? Frank Groom Shirley Jean Dowdy [Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom 11/6/1938-1/29/2018]. We got married September 20, 1958. Regan Siler And I have her birth date as 11/6/1938. Frank Groom That's correct. Regan Siler Okay, yeah, because I had that wrong. So, what was your first impression of her whenever you saw her for the first time? Frank Groom Well, it was kind of strange. Another guy and I worked [indecipherable] in high school, and he and Shirley had been dating. And we were at the locker after lunch one day getting our books, and Shirley walked up and she said Dickie said, Dickie, don't forget, we've got this FHA thing. He said, oh I can't go. I forgot about that. You want to go? Sure, why not? So that was our first date. Regan Siler Did you just move on in? Frank Groom We got married three years later. Regan Siler Oh, well, that's funny. Frank Groom And stayed married for 60 years. Regan Siler 60 years. So, did you have, like, an engagement period? Did you propose and have an engagement period? Frank Groom Well, yeah, kinda. Frank Groom She was living after high school, she went to beauty school, beautician school, and I was working for a supermarket. Of cousre, we were back and forth all the time. I was living in Tulsa, and it just developed. Regan Siler Kinda? Regan Siler And that's that's that, huh? So, where did you guys end up getting married? Frank Groom At the Methodist Church here in Bristow. Regan Siler So, you did get married here? Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler Okay, um, can you tell us about your wedding? Was it a Frank Groom Real small family. Regan Siler Family. Frank Groom Maybe ten people and the preacher and that was it. Regan Siler Okay, okay. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? Was there, did you have struggles? Was it fun when, I mean, Frank Groom We always had fun, but gosh, we hadn't been, she had a beauty shop over on Oak Street after she went to school. And we rented an apartment down on Fifth Street, and she had a phone put in with the same number as the beauty shop. The next morning, the phone rang, and I asked, somebody asked for Shirley Groom. I said, who?! It took a while. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. You had to let that one sink in a little bit. Frank Groom But shortly after that, I took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma. Regan Siler Shattuck, I've never even heard of Shattuck. Frank Groom It's about seven miles from the Texas line, straight west of Woodward. Just about as far as you can go and still be in Oklahoma. Regan Siler So, you took a job there, but still lived here? Frank Groom No, no, we moved. Regan Siler Oh, you moved, okay. Frank Groom And it was a trucking job. I was supposed to be the office manager for this little trucking company. Take calls, do the bookkeeping and all that. I didn't like sitting inside all the time, so boss would come in, of course, the oil field, they'd call in, they'd need a truck to do this or that. Nobody was around, I'd get in it and take off and go do it. So, anyway, I didn't do too much office work. Regan Siler You liked being out. Um, so do you have any children? Frank Groom Have one daughter. Regan Siler And what's her full name? Frank Groom Stella Reni, and her married name is Renner. Regan Siler Okay, um, and then did do I understand that she was, she also went into the military? Frank Groom She she wanted to learn to fly. Regan Siler She wanted to learn what? Frank Groom To fly. Regan Siler Oh, to fly, okay. Frank Groom And then she was a junior in high school, and, well, let's check into it while you can't afford prior to flying lessons. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So, I said your only hope is going to the military if you could qualify and all that. So, she applied to the academies. Believe it or not, she got an appointment to all four military academies. Regan Siler Oh, wow! Frank Groom She picked the Air Force because she thought that'd be her best chance to fly. And she went to the academy, graduated and in '82. They sent her to a base in Mississippi to for pilot training. And she did real well, except she couldn't get them back on the ground. So, some kind of depth perception, but academically, in flight, I went down there because I thought maybe it was had to do with a good old boy, didn't want women flying. Yeah, but the colonel that was the head of the school said that he took her up and she she's great as long as they're in the air or in the classroom, but when it comes to put them back on the runway, he says, the airport can't keep putting land gear on an airplane, just so she can fly it. So anyway. Regan Siler So did you fly also? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler You didn't fly. Okay. Frank Groom Only as a passenger. Regan Siler Do what? Frank Groom Only as a passenger and didn't like that. Regan Siler Right, right. Well, I mean, I guess when you think, you know, you talk about depth perception or whatever, I mean, I guess when you think about it, there's a whole lot of factors in being able to be qualified to fly a plane that a regular person wouldn't even think about. Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler So, was that pretty, I guess, disappointing for her? Frank Groom Big time. And so, hey, just pick you another field and just be the best at it that you can. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom You know, you can't fly now. I mean, she had 30 some hours. Regan Siler Oh, man, that's a bummer! Frank Groom And just had to, you know, give it up. So, she picked the space program. So, she went to school in California and became a misssileer, you know, on the Minuteman missile site. And she went up in rank just like that. Everything I heard, she was really good at what she did. Frank Groom So, she took what you said to heart and went and did did the best. Frank Groom Yeah, but she was promoted to full blown colonel before 20 years, which is really unusual. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom But I read a, it's called an APR Airman Performance Report that a general wrote for her when she worked for him down at Randolph Air Force Base. And this is my kid. He's talking about?! Regan Siler Boy, that makes you proud, doesn't it. Oh, man. Frank Groom Anyway, he wrote on there "must be promoted". This was from Major to Lieutenant Colonel. Must be must be promoted next cycle. And she was. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom So, she made Lieutenant Colonel at about 15 years, 14, 15, years, and she just. And I got to pin all of her ranks on except when she made captain. I wasn't there for that one. Regan Siler Well, how special is that? Frank Groom When she graduated from the academy, I pinned her little gold bar on. When she made Colonel in Washington, Regan Siler And you're not proud at all, are you?! Frank Groom My biggest accomplishment! Regan Siler That's awesome! Frank Groom Yeah, she's quite a quite a young lady. Regan Siler So, is she out of the military now? Frank Groom She retired eight years ago. Regan Siler And where does she live? Frank Groom She lives in Monument, Colorado. Regan Siler I'm jealous if she's living in Colorado. Frank Groom When she retired, she was a Vice-Commandant of students at the Air Force Academy. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom And loved that area, so they bought a house and just stayed there. Regan Siler What a what a wonderful career. So, do you have any grandchildren? Frank Groom I've got one. Remington Shane Renner. He's 21 and he's in the Air Force stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia, and he's a cyber security guy. Regan Siler Wow, so he's probably busy, right? Frank Groom Yeah, he is unbelievably sharp on computers. Even in high school, he was named in high school as the outstanding computer science student. Regan Siler Wow. And everyone in the family stayed in the Air Force, too. Frank Groom Yeah, at one time, all five of us boys were in the service. Four in the Air Force and one in the army. Regan Siler Boy, I bet that stressed your mom out. Frank Groom Probably. It would me! Well, so, do you remember any challenges being like a dad when when she was young, like challenges of being a dad? Frank Groom Not really. We had a really good kid. Regan Siler Sounds like it. Frank Groom But anything she wanted to do we, we supported her, you know, she wanted to take dancing lessons. We got four years old. Started dancing lesson, and she continued dancing lessons since she graduated high school. Regan Siler Wow. Frank Groom She loved to dance. She wanted to learn to play the piano. That lasted a year or so. I don't really want to do this. Then she wasnted to learn to twirl. She was, she was in the band, and didn't really like that, but yet she became the drum major of the band. Regan Siler Sounds like a very driven kid or adult now. Regan Siler Exactly! Yeah. Frank Groom She set her mind to do something, she'd do it. Like she after she got, accepted her appointment to the Air Force Academy, she took a and I don't remember, it was some kind of science course that they had. It started at seven o'clock in the morning, because it was some kind of special class that probably wasn't 15 kids in it, but she wanted it to help her when she got to the academy. But when she got her grades, that class wasn't on it, so she went to the teacher said, you know, there's no grade on here for no credit for this class. He said you don't need it. You got enough credit to graduate. That's not the point. I want it on my transcript. Frank Groom He said, ah, not a big deal. So, she goes to the principal and tells him, and he's the same way. It's no big deal. Just forget about it. She said, when's the next school board meeting, I want to get on the agenda. Regan Siler I like her. She got it handled, didn't she? Frank Groom She sure did. Regan Siler Well, she sounds like something else. Frank Groom Well, it's like when she became drum major, I think she wanted to be drum major because I was, but she told that school had never had a girl for drum major. Well, the band director's son was same grade and he was going to be the drum major. And my daughter said, he doesn't know how to twirl a baton or conduct music. How's he going to, anyway, she became the drum major. Regan Siler Sounds like a very driven individual. Frank Groom Yeah, she did good. Regan Siler So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? Frank Groom Atomic energy, probably. Regan Siler Wow, that's a that's a big one. And what and why do you why do you think that? Frank Groom Well, it's the least polluting method of generating power that there is, except for disposing of the spent radioactive material. But it could be a game changer if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Yeah, we lived in Pennsylvania when the Three Mile Island thing, and it was a big to do in the news, but it wasn't a big to do right around where it happened. Regan Siler Oh, really? Frank Groom No, you know, people didn't Regan Siler Freak out about it. Frank Groom Pack up and leave and all that. It wasn't, it wasn't a big deal, to people that actually knew about what it was. Regan Siler So, then you feel like the fear is what keeps that from being Frank Groom Absolutely. Frank Groom Developed more? That's an interesting perspective. Frank Groom I think we could have, you know, I think it's electric cars is kind of got me concerned. But where are we going to get all the power to recharge those cars. Well, when they're telling us to you better get ready for power issues, because it's hot outside yet you're wanting everybody to plug in your cars. It kind of doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense, like they the technology was ahead of, you know, maybe the infrastructure, whatever, how to support it. I mean, I feel like there's probably a place for electric cars, but not to the degree that they're pushing them, because you can't support powering them. Frank Groom We don't have the infrastructure to furnish that amount ofpower. Regan Siler Yeah. Frank Groom Right now. Regan Siler That is the that's the first time anybody's answered atomic energy to that question that I, I like that perspective. Frank Groom It's, it's probably the least used invention. Regan Siler In present time. Frank Groom For peace time use. I'm talking about, you know, generating electricity. It doesn't take a lot of resources, other than the building, the containment, for it to operate in. Regan Siler So, how do you feel the world is different than whenever you were a child? Frank Groom Oh, gosh. Regan Siler Like, let you count the ways. Well, just sum it up for me, what, what do you feel is the biggest difference? Frank Groom I think the ability of people to get along. You know, they, I don't, I know people that don't even know the next door neighbors, you know? And if they, if they do, they don't say anything good about them. Regan Siler Right, right. Yeah, well, I feel like, and that's something else I wanted to touch on, I feel like you're somebody that's been very involved with public service and, all the different, I'd like for you to tell us about some of the boards that you have served and continue to serve on and and what drives you to do that. Frank Groom Well, I'm on the city council now, and I previously served eight years. I'm on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services, and have been for since 2017. And I'm on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority, and I've been, I'm just going into my second year with that. Regan Siler And what's your drive for, for being a part of all of those things? Frank Groom Help. Just to be useful. Help people. I got involved with social services. The Foster Family donated the buildings to the social services. Regan Siler The one going out on 48 [Highway 48]? Frank Groom Yeah, the one that's south. Where it's at now. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom And Mr. Krumme [George W. Krumme 12/15/1922-7/18/2024] donated the money to renovate it, and they had entered into a contract with a contractor locally. And the Saturday beforehe was supposed to start on Monday, he came in and said, I'm not going to do that. Not going to do your building. Regan Siler So kind of left him in a pickle. Frank Groom And I happened to be in the office. And I said, rather than going out and finding a new contractor, I'll take on that job with one condition, that I pick who I use to do the work. You know, I'm not an electrician. I'm not a plumber and all that. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom And the board agreed to that. Regan Siler But that also probably gave you a little quality control, too. Frank Groom Yes, it did. And, so, I kind of shut my handyman business way down and spent a year. Regan Siler A whole year you were there working? Frank Groom Just about. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Frank Groom To get it where it is now. And it has grown way beyond what we ever thought it would do, you know, with how many people we serve, and it's just a lifesaver for a lot of people. Regan Siler And as a result of that, you were voted Citizen of the Year, is that correct? And that was in 2017 or 18? Frank Groom '17. Regan Siler 2017 for your work that you did with social services. Which I don't know, I mean, that's pretty amazing, that you spent that much time working on it and getting it ready for the community. Frank Groom Well, I also got a lot of volunteers to help and but we used the court-appointed, not a court-appointed,but the court-directed community service. They would send them to us, and we find something they could do. Regan Siler Well, that's good. Frank Groom Which helped a lot. And social services, I'd known the guy that had been the chairman down there for years, and anyway, as a result of him leaving the board, I got on the board and found out there was lots of problems. Regan Siler Lots of stuff that needed worked on. Frank Groom Yeah, so anyway, we've got all that in the process, that's a work in progress, getting that changed. The executive director is no longer there, and we've got an interim director trying to get it straightened out and making good progress. Regan Siler That's good. That's good. So, how do you feel about being on the city council, and you're in your you served eight years, and then you're back on now, serving a term of someone that left the council. Is that right? Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler Do you plan on running again? Frank Groom I don't know. Regan Siler Not sure? Frank Groom Not sure. Regan Siler You're not going to announce any breaking news? Frank Groom Well, actually, I mentioned, I'm very hard to hearing, and I'm getting new hearing aids next week, next Monday. And they're they're going to be Bluetooth enabled, so, and they also told me this through the VA, and they also told me that they'll get me a microphone, that when I'm in a meeting, I can set that Iike in the middle of the table, and then I can hear everybody. Regan Siler You can hear better. Frank Groom So, if that works like they say it will, I might run for it. But you're familiar with the room? Regan Siler Oh yeah. Frank Groom Over there. Regan Siler Oh yeah. Regan Siler So, you struggle. Frank Groom I'm on the very right end. Which means one year next to the wall. I can't hear. Frank Groom The four down on the far end. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom Almost impossible to hear them. Regan Siler And is it the same way with city council, you feel like that's something that you just want to try to make a difference in the community? Frank Groom Yeah, I served on the municipal not municipal authority, the industrial authority. I served, I was president of that for several years, and my big accomplishment was when I sold the old garment factory building. Everybody said, ain't nobody will buy that. I found buyerand sold it, got a big down payment, and then we financed it. And Kell Kelly, financed at 6% and Kell Kelly saw me at one of the meetings, and he said, I can't believe we got 6%. We can't get that at the bank. Regan Siler Well, that's good, that's good. Frank Groom That's that's the feather in my cap from that time. Well, I feel like you definitely have a heart for service and for your community. You've been involved in so many different things, and you know, honestly, that's part of the reason why we wanted to visit with you. We felt like you had a lot to share. Frank Groom I like my Bristow. Regan Siler Yeah, I do too. Okay, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved? Frank Groom Our biggest problem is Trump and the MAGA, what do they call them M A G A? And that far right-wing attitude. And where we're going to cure it is to get rid of it. Regan Siler Okay. Regan Siler And how do you, how do you, how do you get rid of it? Frank Groom Well, you gotta vote out the ones that are in now and not vote the ones that are wanting to get in. Regan Siler Okay, all right. Frank Groom And I'm not a Democrat, by the way. Regan Siler Okay, have any historic events affected your life? And if so, how and like, for example, Oklahoma City Bombing, 911, COVID, any natural disasters. Anything affected you? Frank Groom When John Kennedy was assassinated, I was in the Air Force, and I was, and I remember this real vividly. I was in the north hangar at Perrin Air Force Base. And there's probably 10 airplanes in it, and all this ground power equipment, people working, but somebody had a radio and that announcement came on, and just like that, it was dead silence in that hanger. Everything shut down, and we got where we could hear, you know, and listen to that announcement. I guess nothing happened at the hanger for a couple hours. It just, Regan Siler Oh, I can imagine. Frank Groom Everybody couldn't believe it. And I remember that just as vividly as I mean, if I think real hard, I probably can tell you the guys that were standing around at the time. Regan Siler Right. It was another one of those core memories that sticks with you. Frank Groom The Murrah Building, I was working for a company in Pennsylvania, but we had a terminal in Oklahoma City, and I was on the phone with the Terminal Manager, and heard this noise. What in the hell? Regan Siler Oh, my gosh. Are you serious? Frank Groom He said, I think one of the propane tanks must have blew up. He said, I'll call you back. And about that time, you could see it on the news. Regan Siler Oh my goodness, yeah, so you were on the phone with him and heard it? Oh my goodness. Frank Groom Yeah, the terminal was with the Feed the Children complex out there on Council, I think the street that it's on. Yeah, it is Council. And that's, that's where he was. He was in his office, there, and I was in Pennsylvania. Regan Siler Oh my gosh. Frank Groom When the blast went off. Regan Siler Wow. Frank Groom And then, of course, we turned TV on, and because we had a TV in the dispatch and had the Weather Channel on it so dispatchers could see what all the weather was on the country. So we switched it over to CNN, or whatever one and watched it. That was unbelievable. Regan Siler That's kind of how I felt with 9/11 and my son was about two, and I was pregnant with my second son, and I just remember it kind of like what you said in the at the hanger. You just, you're kind of frozen, and you're just watching everything unfold in disbelief, you know. Frank Groom When 9/11, I was working at Christner up here, and I walked in the dispatch, and everybody was over around the the weather TV, but they were, and I hadn't heard a thing about it. And they said, Frank, Frank, did you hear about this? No, I haven't. But, there again, nothing happened for about two hours. Regan Siler Right. Oh, yeah. Frank Groom Couldn't believe they just stuck to that TV. Regan Siler Yes, yes. Frank Groom I think the Kennedy one probably affected me more than most, because I really admired him. Regan Siler Right. Yeah. Um, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? Frank Groom I don't know if there's a lot of wisdom there. Regan Siler I know you have to have some wisdom in there you want to share. Frank Groom Not that I could think of, just, you know, treat people like you want to be treated. Regan Siler I agree. Frank Groom That's about as simple as it gets right there. Regan Siler Yeah, I think that's Frank Groom And help people when they need it. Regan Siler Yes. Well, I think you're definitely an example of that. Frank Groom Yeah, yeah. We try, yeah, we built, oh, gosh, I don't know how many handicap ramps we've built here in town and different places, repairing stuff for people. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom It's what you do. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom Or what you should do. Regan Siler What you should be doing, huh? And there's no other stories or anything else you want to share with us that we didn't, we didn't touch on. Frank Groom Well, there's probably some, but you don't want them recorded. Regan Siler Oh, gosh, well, we have really appreciated you taking the time to visit with us today,. Your interview willbecome an important part of our oral history archive for the museum, and we appreciate you and thank you. Frank Groom You're welcome. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0062_Frank_Groom.xml OHP-0062_Frank_Groom.xml
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Title
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Frank Groom
Description
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Franklin Ewing Groom, born August 14, 1939, in Chandler, Oklahoma, discussed his life and family history. His parents, Floyd Franklin Groom and Thelma Carmen Burris, owned restaurants in Bristow for 40 years. Franklin has five siblings, with four still living. He learned carpentry skills from his father and grandfather. Groom served in the Air Force for eight years, attended Grayson County College and Texas A&M, and worked in long-haul trucking management. He was involved in community service, including serving on the city council and boards for Bristow Social Services and Housing Authority. Groom emphasized the importance of public service and treating others well.
Identifier
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OHP-0062
Date
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2024-08-06
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video
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/392fdce5aeb1c2269ed12d837d22fc7d.jpg
4a7e5ece18fd4c38ae1f46136a919cec
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
LoNetta White
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0061_LoNetta_White.xml
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5.4 July 23, 2024 OHP-0061 LoNetta White OHP-0061 01:20:57 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory LoNetta White Jimmy White 1.0:|16(16)|50(7)|67(12)|91(6)|114(17)|145(9)|166(15)|190(12)|211(10)|224(9)|240(16)|269(3)|289(6)|314(10)|335(7)|354(4)|385(6)|397(5)|418(6)|431(17)|439(18)|462(14)|489(10)|517(8)|540(13)|553(11)|577(8)|593(4)|611(5)|635(5)|663(4)|693(11)|712(4)|746(17)|766(4)|787(4)|813(6)|818(18)|838(8)|854(13)|886(14)|907(4)|933(19)|948(11)|965(12)|979(11)|1000(12)|1026(7)|1049(17)|1072(15)|1093(16)|1145(10)|1175(13)|1198(12)|1219(11)|1236(12)|1252(13)|1281(6)|1305(15)|1328(14)|1346(6)|1367(5)|1394(7)|1419(13)|1450(11)|1472(6)|1494(4)|1513(8)|1542(11)|1568(4)|1595(15)|1614(9)|1648(12)|1681(6)|1698(12)|1716(4)|1730(19)|1750(8)|1762(11)|1782(5)|1799(8)|1802(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0061 White, LoNetta.mp3 Other audio 0 Background This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is July 23, 2024 and I'm sitting here with LoNetta White and her son, Jimmy White, at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 00:29
 ; LoNetta Faye Dowdy White. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:32
 ; Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 00:32
 ; Yes, you do. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:36
 ; Okay, so can you tell us when and where you were born?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 00:41
 ; I was born approximately two miles or so south of Bristow, in a two-room log cabin on August 24, 1940.
 ; LoNetta was born in 1940. She was born in a two-room log cabin about 2 miles south of Bristow, Oklahoma. Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Historical Society ; James Allen White ; Bristow Library Annex ; log cabin Birth ; background 0 104 Parents and Siblings Regan Siler 01:44
 ; So can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell us what your parents full names are? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 01:54
 ; Okay, John, well, JB, and a lot of people called him John, and then they'd say John Buster. And then some of them called him Buck. And so he had several names, but usually Buster is what my mom would call him.
 ; LoNetta's parents were John and Ollie Belle Dowdy. LoNetta had two siblings, a brother and a sister. Both of her siblings are deceased. John Dowdy ; Ollie Belle Dowdy ; Shirley Jean Dowdy ; Roy Dean Dowdy Parents ; Siblings 0 195 Parents' Occupations Regan Siler 03:15
 ; Okay, so what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 03:21
 ; Well, farming was one thing, because they would just at a moment's notice, get up and head for California. And she had two sisters out there. My mom did, and they would go out there and stay maybe during the picking of the lettuce and all that stuff, you know, and then come right around and drive back home.
 ; LoNetta and her family frequently traveled to California to work. They helped work in the fields. LoNetta's father also worked in the oil field. Farming ; California ; the Depression ; Bessie Christian ; Earl Christian ; Sharecropping ; Oil field ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Arcadia (Okla.) Occupation ; Farming ; Oil field 0 304 Early Life Regan Siler 05:04
 ; So, do you happen to remember, like, what type of car they drove at the time?
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 05:10
 ; They would buy something as cheap as they could, and then when they got back to Oklahoma, they would sell it, because that's what they would live on through the winter, whatever they had made and sell on the car. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 05:10
 ; No. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 05:21
 ; And one winter, I guess everybody was nearly starving, you know, and my dad would go out and kill rabbits, and then he would hang them on the clothesline. And anybody that came by that needed them could takethem.
 ; LoNetta recalls one winter when times were tough, her father killed rabbits and would hang them on the clothesline for anyone to take. LoNetta had many cousins around Bristow when she was young. Her grandmothers were both deceased before LoNetta was born. One grandfather lived in Oklahoma and the other in California. Automobile ; Oklahoma ; Bristow (Okla.) ; California Life ; Family 0 441 Moving to Bristow Regan Siler 07:21
 ; Okay, so how long has your family lived in the Bristow area? Would you say? Or do you even know?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 07:32
 ; No, I really don't.
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 07:37
 ; They moved here from Arkansas when her dad was little, like, he's born in 1907 and so it was around 1914 they've got a family picture.
 ; LoNetta's family originally came from Arkansas. Her grandfather moved his family to Oklahoma when LoNetta's father was young (around age 7.) His wife and small children rode on the train. Her grandfather and the older sons came by horseback. They brought their cattle with them. Bristow (Okla.) ; Arkansas ; Oil boom Moving ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 548 Childhood Regan Siler 09:08
 ; Um, okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember having any favorite toys or childhood games that you enjoy playing?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 09:22
 ; Yes, around the house. Mainly, we would play house. We would have a spot out in the yard, you know, around close, and we would have our old dishes or whatever, you know, and we would play with all that stuff. And there were, like, right at 10 families, I think, that lived on the lease, the old lease, and gosh, we would get together day or night. You know, at midnight, we may all be out there playing somewhere.
 ; Part of LoNetta's childhood was spent living on an oil lease with other families. Around 10 families lived on the lease, and they spent a lot of time together. LoNetta and the other children played outside together. Childhood ; Oil lease ; Tibbens lease Childhood 0 659 Chores Regan Siler 10:59
 ; Did you have chores that you were expected to do around your place when you were young? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 11:05
 ; Chores?
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 11:06
 ; Chores. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 11:07
 ; Oh, chores, yes, anything I was told I was supposed to do so as far as just regular chores? No.
 ; LoNetta can't name specific chores that she was expected to do. Her family did not farm as much once they were living on the oil lease. Her father did always raise a garden though. Chores ; Oil Company ; Garden Chores 0 712 Fishing Regan Siler 11:52
 ; But not really families that weren't related to you, just families in general. Okay, right, okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 12:07
 ; No, not well, fishing. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:10
 ; Fishing. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 12:11
 ; My brother and I went fishing every day, and it was across the road from where we lived and go up just up a hill, and there was a farm or a pasture, I should say, up there, and we would come in from school and get our fishing pole up the hill, we'd go.
 ; LoNetta spent much of her childhood fishing. LoNetta and her brother would go fishing every day after school. They fished across the road from where they lived on a farm. Fishing ; Hobbies ; Iron Post School Fishing 0 769 School Regan Siler 12:49
 ; Not that you remember, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Where did you first attend school? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 12:58
 ; Iron Post. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:58
 ; Iron Post, and so, I wonder how long that school was there, because it's not there now, right?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 13:05
 ; No, the school isn't, but the old cellar is still out there, where they used to stick all of us. And it was a big cellar. It would hold 20-30 people, maybe, and it's still there, but they've taken the school down, but there's a house that sits there now.
 ; LoNetta attended school at Iron Post through the 6th grade. The school closed down and she continued her education at Bristow School. She recalls there being a pie supper once a year at Iron Post. The proceeds from that supper were used to buy apples and oranges and candy for the children. LoNetta also recalls an influential teacher that she had named Mrs. Dykes. School ; Iron Post School ; Bristow School ; Bristow (Okla.) School 0 944 GED Regan Siler 15:44
 ; Okay, but now you told me something interesting about when we talked on the phone, because I understand you didn't graduate. Is that correct? But, but tell me about, tell me about your GED. That was an interesting story.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 16:02
 ; I heard, I quit school.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 16:05
 ; And why did you why did you quit school? If you don't mind me asking you just didn't like it?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 16:10
 ; Didn't want to go. I got married during the summer between my junior and senior year. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 16:15
 ; Okay.
 ; LoNetta married the summer between her junior and senior years. She decided to quit school. Later in life she heard an interview with Waylon Jennings. He talked about quitting school and then later taking classes and getting his GED. That inspired LoNetta to do the same and so she received her GED at the age of 50. GED ; School ; Waylon Jennings ; Harold Jason White ; Biology GED 0 1155 Living on the Lease LoNetta White 19:15
 ; Um, no, because on the lease, the men, and I don't know how they did this, were in different grades of where they worked and different things like that. And, like I say, I don't know how they judged all that, but could have been by age, because the older ones lived closer to the front of the of the leasse than the younger ones did, and we had, you know, three or four houses in a row, and then there might not be one for maybe five acres on up. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 19:57
 ; So, I guess so let's clarify that, because I don't even know that I've heard of such a thing. So at that time, they would have, like, an oil lease. So you would work for a company and that, and the workers would actually live on the lease?
 ; LoNetta lived on the oil lease for about 6 years. Paul Tibbens ran and owned the lease. LoNetta and her family lived there while her father worked for the oil company. Oil Lease ; Paul Tibbens Oil Lease 0 1307 Moving to Red Bank Road LoNetta White 21:47
 ; Outside of Bristow, out on Red Bank Road, which my dad bought a little farm out there and
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 21:53
 ; And you said, Red Bank Road? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 21:56
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 21:57
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 21:58
 ; And we lived there, well, I got married between my junior and senior year, so then I left and moved to town, so they lived out there three or four years after that.
 ; After living on the oil lease, LoNetta and her family moved to Red Bank Road. Her father had purchased a littler farm out there. LoNetta and her sister shared a room. During the heat of summer, LoNetta would sometimes make a bed outside to sleep on at night. Bristow (Okla.) ; Red Bank Road ; farm moving ; Red Bank Road 0 1402 Mealtimes Regan Siler 23:22
 ; Exactly! I can't sleep if it's hot. Um, I think we're, we're probably pretty spoiled now. Um, okay, well, let's talk about meal times in your family and what that was like. Did you guys eat together as a family every night?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 23:35
 ; Oh, yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 23:36
 ; Okay, and so, did your mom do all the preparing...did you have any role in the preparing or cleaning up?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 23:44
 ; Oh yeah, Shirley and I did the dishes.
 ; LoNetta and her family ate dinner together every night. LoNetta remembers her mother being an amazing cook. LoNetta and her sister were in charge of cleanup. She remembers being very young and standing on a chair to do the dishes. Mealtimes ; Shirley Jean Dowdy ; John Buster Dowdy ; Ollie Belle Williams Dowdy ; Teresa Lynn White Alred ; James Allen White Mealtimes 0 1574 School Fair Regan Siler 26:14
 ; That's, that's awesome. Um, so thinking about thinking back to town life and growing up, do you remember having any favorite, like Bristow community activities, for instance, say, like maybe Western Heritage Day, day camps, county fairs, things like that. Do you remember participating in any of those things and what was your favorite?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 26:39
 ; Yes, when I was still at Iron Post, we used to always make stuff and take to the fair there at school, you know? And we always enjoyed that. And I've still got some of the old ribbons that 
 ; LoNetta made things to take to the fair at the Iron Post school. The first thing she remembers making was a head scarf. LoNetta also made tea towels and enjoyed embroidery. Western Heritage Day ; County Fairs ; Iron Post School School Fair 0 1687 Businesses Around Bristow Regan Siler 28:07
 ; Yeah, okay. Do you happen to remember the biggest or most popular businesses around town? Maybe, like growing up and through your early married life, like what businesses stick out to you? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 28:07
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 28:24
 ; Kemps, Penneys, there used to be a Sears and Anthony's.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:32
 ; Bristow used to be happening at one time.
 ; LoNetta talks about some of the businesses that used to be in Bristow. She remembers JCPenney's, Sears and Anthony's. When her kids were small, they would come to their shop (Mistletoe Express) after school. LoNetta says Jimmy would shop at Anthony's and charge stuff in between pay day. Her son, Eddie charged a bicycle at Western Auto and would pay on it every time he got paid. Kemp's ; JCPenney's ; Sears ; Anthony's ; Mistletoe Express ; James Allen White ; Edgar Angel White ; Western Auto Businesses 0 1802 Restaurants Regan Siler 30:02
 ; I know, I know. Did you have a favorite place to eat, or did you primarily eat at home? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 30:10
 ; Usually at home. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 30:11
 ; But if you did get to go out, do you remember like a restaurant in town that you really liked eating at? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 30:17
 ; Lyons Cafe.
 ; LoNetta primarily ate meals at home. When she did eat out, she really enjoyed Lyons Cafe. It was located on Main beside where Town Square is now. She also enjoyed Harvey House, which was located where the Dollar Store is currently. Another favorite restaurant was The Highway Cafe. It was located on the corner of 9th. Lyons Cafe ; Town Square ; Main Street ; Harvey House ; The Highway Cafe ; Dollar Store ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Restaurants Restaurants 0 1898 Teenage Fun Regan Siler 31:38
 ; Okay, all right. And did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? Where did you hang out when you were a teenager? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 31:49
 ; On a horse. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:52
 ; Good for you. So you liked to ride a lot, I guess? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 31:57
 ; Yeah.
 ; LoNetta enjoyed dragging Main and riding horses as a teenager. She recalls riding every chance she got with her friend, Margaret Styles. One time she said they rode to Depew and did not even think to take anything to eat or drink on the way. Horses ; Margaret Styles ; Depew (Okla.) ; Main Fun 0 2040 Clothing Regan Siler 34:00
 ; Um, where did you shop for clothes? And how often did you get new clothes?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 34:06
 ; Not very often. And what we had, we usually made. We would buy the material. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:14
 ; And so, did you make your clothes? Or did your mom make your clothes?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 34:18
 ; Well, of course, the smaller I was, Mom made them, and the older I got, I made them, and Shirley did too.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:26
 ; Wow. Okay,
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 34:27
 ; So they cut her down to just my brother, and wasn't hard to get him an old t shirt.
 ; LoNetta did not get new clothes very often. When she was younger her mother made her clothes. The older she got she made her own clothes. Clothing ; Ollie Belle Williams Dowdy ; Roy Dean Dowdy ; Shirley Jean Dowdy Clothing 0 2073 Family Car Regan Siler 34:33
 ; Right, right. Um, so do you happen to remember your first family car.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 34:45
 ; Family car. You mean
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:46
 ; Like that you had when you were young, like it whenever you were a kid, like, what was your first family's car? Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 34:59
 ; About the only one I remember, like when we lived down on the lease, was a Jeep.
 ; LoNetta does not remember much about the automobiles in her childhood. She does recall her family owning a Jeep when they lived on the lease. Automobiles ; Oil Lease ; Jeep automobile Car 0 2106 Vacations Regan Siler 35:06
 ; A Jeep, okay, all right. Did you ever get to go on vacations?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 35:14
 ; Well, once a year, probably vacation for the whole lease probably at the same time, we used to go to one of the lakes. And I'm talking about like mostly the whole lease went.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:32
 ; So when you say one of the lakes, do you mean one of the lakes around here?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 35:36
 ; Yeah, we went to Greenleaf and Ten Killer. Okay, color places like that, you know. And Paul paid for all of that and took his boats and different things. And everybody partied for two or three days there. So that was more or less vacation. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:57
 ; Got a little R& ; R that way? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 35:59
 ; Yes, we did.
 ; LoNetta remembers her family vacationing at the lake once a year. They would go to a nearby lake like Greenleaf or Ten Killer for a few days. Most of the people that lived on the lease would go together. Paul Tibbens paid and would bring his boat. Vacations ; Jeep automobile ; Greenleaf Lake ; Tenkiller lake ; Paul Tibbens Vacations 0 2162 Driving Regan Siler 36:02
 ; Do you remember who taught you how to drive?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 36:05
 ; I guess my dad.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 36:09
 ; Your dad. And do you remember what your first car was?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 36:14
 ; I didn't have one. I drove his old pickup sometime. And then after I got married, Harold had a Pontiac, and I drove it some but as far as me having a car, I never did.
 ; LoNetta says her father probably taught her how to drive. She did not have her own car but would sometimes drive her father's old pickup. Her friend, Margaret had a station wagon that they rode around in often. Later, after marriage her husband had a Pontiac that LoNetta sometimes drove. Automobile ; John Buster Dowdy ; Harold Jason White ; Pontiac ; Margaret Styles ; Station wagons Driving 0 2210 Entertainment Regan Siler 36:50
 ; So what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV? And if so, did you have a favorite program? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 36:59
 ; Hmm? Uh, yeah, we watched TV some, but the main thing that we would look forward to was on Saturday morning, even though we had tons of laundry to do, which was on an old Maytag, you know, and especially in the winter, because you had the windows shut and stuff, and you couldn't hear any any radio or anything outside. But we would want to listen to the Lone Ranger and all of that good stuff they used to have.
 ; LoNetta said she did watch television some growing up but that she mainly enjoyed listening to the radio shows. She loved the Lone Ranger and the Creaking Door. LoNetta also really enjoyed music, especially country. Entertainment ; Television ; Lone Ranger (Radio program) ; Creaking Door ; Maytag Company ; Music Entertainment 0 2305 Pivotal Historical Moments Regan Siler 38:25
 ; Okay, I'm glad we have that clarification. Do you recall witnessing any pivotal events in history that you watched on TV?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 38:40
 ; Oh, yeah, of course, Kennedy being assassinated. Even part of the conventions that they have every year or every election year. There were some of them that were really good, really good.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:00
 ; So how did you so do you remember about how old you are, you were, when Kennedy was assassinated? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 39:06
 ; Well, that would be in 1963 so
 ; LoNetta remembers when Kennedy was assassinated. She was in her twenties with three children. Her and husband owned the TV shop at the time and were glued to the screen the rest of the day. John F. Kennedy ; Assassination ; History ; Harold Jason White ; Television Historical Moments 0 2403 Medical Care Regan Siler 40:03
 ; Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Okay. So what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor, or did you mainly try to take care of things at home? I know, apparently, we had a recipe for cough syrup.
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 40:23
 ; Yeah! 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 40:24
 ; That was at home. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 40:25
 ; Yeah. But did you, did you have medical care? Did you have a family doctor, or did you mainly try to take care of stuff at 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 40:32
 ; Most of it, you took care of at home.
 ; LoNetta and her family took care of most of their medical needs at home. They even had a recipe for cough syrup. LoNetta burned her hand at the age of one on their wood burning stove. Her parents treated her burn with unguentine. LoNetta also recalls cutting her leg pretty badly when she was about 10 or 12. She did receive stitches for this injury by their family doctor, Dr. Hollis. Medical care ; doctor ; Shirley Jean Dowdy ; unguentine ; Antibiotics ; Joseph E. Hollis ; John Buster Dowdy ; Chicken pox ; Measles ; Mumps ; Vaccines Medical care 0 2736 Horseback Accident LoNetta White 45:36
 ; And then, let's see, in the 70s, let's see, I had a horseback accident in when I was a senior in high school. Margaret, and I were riding to double on double and and the horse slipped on pavement and fell, and that put us both in the hospital. And they put me in the room, or brought Mrs. Corey (ph), which was the dean of girls atthe time. 
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 46:15
 ; You broke your leg. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 46:16
 ; Yeah, broke my leg. Margaret broke hers. And they brought Mrs. Corey (ph) in and put in the room with me, because Margaret got to go home a couple of days before I did.
 ; LoNetta had a horseback accident in the 70's when she was a senior in high school. She was riding with her friend, Margaret and the horse slipped and they both broke their legs. She ended up in a hospital room with Mrs. Corey (the dean of the girls at the time.) Dresses were required to be worn by girls at the school. Because of her broken leg, LoNetta wore blue jeans with a zipper in them to zip and unzip over the cast. Accident ; Margaret Styles ; Mrs. Corey ; Hospital ; School Accident 0 2835 Church Regan Siler 47:15
 ; Okay, well, so did you happen to attend church growing up? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 47:22
 ; Yes, we did. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 47:23
 ; Okay. And if so, where did you attend? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 47:26
 ; Christian Church. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 47:27
 ; Christian Church. And so, where would that...is that building still around?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 47:32
 ; Yes, sixth and Elm
 ; LoNetta attended the Christian Church growing up. It was located at Sixth and Elm. After marrying Harold, she started attending the Church of God with him. Christian Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Harold Jason White ; Church of God ; Presbyterian Church Church 0 2921 Holidays Regan Siler 48:41
 ; Okay. So thinking back to holidays when you were young and with your family, did your family celebrate holidays in a big way? Like, can you remember what Christmas was like, or any other holidays that you really enjoyed?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 49:01
 ; Yeah, lots of people.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 49:03
 ; Lots of people. Lots of family? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 49:06
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 49:06
 ; Okay. And where did you usually celebrate Christmas?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 49:09
 ; In most cases, at our house.
 ; LoNetta and her family celebrated Christmas with lots of food and family. LoNetta and her sister, Shirley typically received a new doll. One-year LoNetta received hair clips as a gift. They were blue birds. Not long after, her family had company. A little girl really liked the hair clips and LoNetta's mother gave them to her. LoNetta was heartbroken. Holidays ; Christmas ; Fourth of July ; Halloween ; Thanksgiving Holidays 0 3082 Deep Fork LoNetta White 51:22
 ; We spent a lot of time on Deep Fork. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:24
 ; On Deep Fork? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 51:24
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:25
 ; Oh gosh. Okay.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 51:26
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:27
 ; So you probably have some Deep Fork stories, don't you? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 51:30
 ; Yeah. And they would, of course, we'd spend the night.
 ; LoNetta spent a lot of time in her childhood at Deep Fork. She enjoyed fishing there. LoNetta said in the summertime they would go without shoes because they could not afford to ruin their one pair and buy more. Deep Fork (Okla.) ; Three Bridges ; Fishing Deep Fork (Okla.) 0 3182 Wanting to Join the Navy Regan Siler 53:02
 ; Like I said, I'll reiterate, I don't know how anybody survived. Okay, well as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Did you have any like, oh, I want to be a particular something or other when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 53:18
 ; Not really. After oh, I don't know, later years, after I'd been going to Bristow Schools, I had another friend. Her name was Margaret, also.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 53:32
 ; So, you had two Margarets? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 53:34
 ; Margaret [undecipherable]. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 53:35
 ; Oh, my goodness. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 53:36
 ; One was a Sipler and one, which was Theodore Abraham's stepdaughter.
 ; LoNetta and one of her friends dreamed of joining the Navy one day. LoNetta got married but her friend did end up joining. LoNetta's daughter, Teresa joined the Navy when she was old enough. LoNetta said her daughter took her place. Bristow School ; Navy ; Margaret Stiles Garrison ; Red Bank Road ; Teresa Lynn White Alred Navy 0 3261 Jobs Regan Siler 54:21
 ; That's interesting. Well, let's talk about some of the different jobs you had during your life. I know when we had talked on the phone before, maybe specifically, like your businesses that you had here in town. I think you said you started at the garment factory. So start from there and tell me, tell me what all you've done. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 54:43
 ; Okay, I went to work at the well, if I start the very first one, I'd have to go to seventh grade, because I worked at the cafeteria at Washington back in the seventh grade. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 54:58
 ; Wow, okay.
 ; LoNetta's first job was at the cafeteria at Washington Elementary. She was in the seventh grade. Then she went to work at the garment factory when she was around 18 years old. Garment Factory ; Cafeteria ; Washington Elementary ; James Allen White Jobs 0 3445 Businesses LoNetta White 57:25
 ; Yeah. And then we Harold put in the radio and TV shop and
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:34
 ; And that was called White's, right? 
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 57:36
 ; White's Radio & ; TV. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:39
 ; Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 57:39
 ; Repair, yeah. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 57:40
 ; And then when we moved to the down on Seventh Street, we rented from Mr. Slyman. And then later on, we were able to buy the building just two doors up, and so we bought it, and we were still just right there on Seventh Street, and we're across the street from, well, it's Dr Cantrell now.
 ; LoNetta and her husband opened a radio and TV shop called White's Radio & ; TV Repair. It was located on Seventh Street. They had the shop for 25 years. They also ran a business called the Mistletoe Express. It was a distribution company that helped deliver packages. It was open for 22 years. LoNetta and her husband also helped with the buses coming through Bristow. White's Radio & ; TV Repair ; Slyman ; Dr. Cantrell ; Mistletoe Express ; Seventh Street ; UPS ; Greyhound buses ; George Burkle ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Avon Businesses 0 3810 Husband, Harold Jason White Regan Siler 1:03:35
 ; Oh, that's good. Okay. Well, let's, let's talk about your spouse, when and where did you first meet your spouse?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:03:43
 ; Okay, I met him April. I was in the hospital from the horse accident.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:53
 ; The broken leg? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:03:53
 ; Yeah, and he had caught his hand in the printing press. He worked at the Bristow News. He had been putting paper on, and the guy reached up and turned on the press, and it caught his hand in there. And so he would, that's what he was in there for. And then we ended up getting married in August.
 ; LoNetta met her husband when she was in the hospital from the horse accident. He had gotten his hand stuck in the printing press while working at the Bristow News. They played checkers together in the hospital. He passed away in 1992. Bristow News ; Hospital ; Harold Jason White Husband 0 3895 Engagement and Wedding Regan Siler 1:04:55
 ; Oh gosh! Do you, so, did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period, or did you just decide you were getting married and got married?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:04:55
 ; Yeah, because he was in the room with a boy that we went to school with, which he, supposedly, had pneumonia, but he spent a lot of time out in the hall, you know. And he and Margaret Ann got put to bed for racing in wheelchairs down the hall.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:05:29
 ; No, there was, yeah, we got engaged. And, you know, they used to put your picture in the paper and, and, well, they just plastered stuff everywhere, like that, you know? And yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:05:45
 ; So, you had your engagement period, and then ,so, and you got married at the Presbyterian Church.
 ; LoNetta and Harold had their picture in the newspaper announcing their engagement. LoNetta helped take care of a lady in Sapulpa to make money to buy a wedding dress. She also helped some family with their chickens to earn money. LoNetta and Harold's wedding took place at the Presbyterian Church. Margaret Stiles Garrison ; Presbyterian Church ; Harold Jason White ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Engagement ; Wedding 0 4052 Early Years of Marriage Regan Siler 1:07:32
 ; Oh, my goodness. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? I mean, obviously, you were young. Um, what did was it a financial struggle? Was it, I mean, was it, tell me about it. What was it like? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:07:48
 ; Well, kind of was because Harold had just got out of the Navy, and he went back to work at the news office. And, of course, I quit school. That's why I probably went to work. And, you know, everything was just tight, but we were young and happy and didn't make any difference, so
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:08:13
 ; It didn't matter to you, did it? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:08:15
 ; No.
 ; LoNetta and Harold had financial struggles in their early married years. LoNetta said they were young and happy though, so it didn't make a difference. Harold had just returned from the Navy and was working at the news office. LoNetta had quit school and was working. Marriage ; Navy ; Harold Jason White Marriage 0 4095 Children Regan Siler 1:08:15
 ; Yeah. So how many children do you have? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:08:19
 ; Three. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:08:20
 ; Okay, can you tell me their full names and their dates of birth? If you know them.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:08:25
 ; James Allen White, which is Jimmy here. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:08:28
 ; Okay.
 ; LoNetta and Harold had three children. Their names are James Allen White, Teresa Lynn White Alred and Edgar Angel White. Edgar passed away in a car accident in 1987. Children ; James Allen White ; Teresa Lynn White Alred ; Edgar Angel White Children 0 4181 Early Years of Parenting LoNetta White 1:09:41
 ; Other than Eddie was accident prone. He kept us pretty busy.
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 1:09:51
 ; We stayed with Grandma a lot when we were small and they were working at the shop.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:09:56
 ; Trying to work?
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 1:09:57
 ; Right, yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:09:57
 ; Because they had all these businesses they were trying to run.
 ; LoNetta's children stayed with their grandma a lot in the summer. The children spent time with Harold and LoNetta before and after school at their shop. LoNetta says her son, Eddie was very accident prone and kept them busy. Edgar Angel White ; Adam Titus Parenting 0 4323 Grandchildren Regan Siler 1:12:03
 ; Right. Do you have any grandchildren? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:12:07
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:12:07
 ; How many grandchildren do you have? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:12:09
 ; I have three. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:12:10
 ; Three. Do you want to tell me their names? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:12:12
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 1:12:12
 ; Well, four.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:12:13
 ; Yeah, one passed away. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Kenneth Alred.
 ; LoNetta has three grandchildren and one more that passed away. She also has eleven great-grandchildren and one great-great grandchild. Grandchildren ; Kenneth Alred ; air force ; Florida ; Justin Alred ; Daniel Alred ; Brandon Dale White Grandchildren 0 4419 Important Invention Regan Siler 1:13:39
 ; Oh, my goodness, okay. I'm going to ask you a little bit of a hard question. This one might make you think a little bit. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:13:59
 ; Hmm. I don't know, unless it's the way electronics have gone that, you know, being involved with all of that when it was coming up the first time around. And some of the things that I see now, I think, you know, how did they do that.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:14:22
 ; Right, right. 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:14:23
 ; So, it's not biology, I'd say electronics.
 ; LoNetta believes electronics has been the most important invention in her lifetime. Invention ; Electronics ; Biology Invention 0 4466 How the World is Different Regan Siler 1:14:26
 ; Electronics, okay. How do you feel the world is different than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:14:34
 ; Well, we were a village raising kids back then. If you did something wrong, you got a whippin' for it. And you didn't do it again. And nowadays, you know kids, I don't know, some of them are, are just not looked after. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:14:53
 ; Or maybe they lacking discipline? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:14:56
 ; Yeah, lacking discipline or missing love somewhere along the way.
 ; LoNetta talks about how children nowadays are lacking discipline. She also feels some are missing love. She says back in her day it was a village raising the children. World ; Discipline World 0 4501 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 1:15:01
 ; Yeah, okay. What do you feel our nation's biggest problem is currently? 
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:15:08
 ; Ooh! One president quitting and the Vice President taking over, and then the election that's coming up, and the FBI agent quit this morning, and
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:15:25
 ; I feel like we're living in some pivotal times right now. 
 ; 
 ; Jimmy White 1:15:29
 ; Yeah, we are. It's scary.
 ; LoNetta talks about some of the pivotal times we are living in currently. Her son says it is scary. LoNetta mentions the president quitting and the vice-president taking over and the election that is coming up. President ; Vice-President ; Election ; FBI Nation 0 4530 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:15:30
 ; Which I think is good to document, too, just because who the heck knows what's gonna happen in the next four months! Quite a cluster. How have any historic events affected you? For instance, like the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, maybe COVID, natural disasters? Have there been anything like that that's personally affected your life?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:15:56
 ; Yeah, I think so. Back I wrote a poem back then, which I did bring to show you that, you know, you just, you just don't know what's going to happen. And I think everybody should stop and take a second look at all that. And we don't want that in our country. We don't want to be scared like a lot of them are.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:16:31
 ; And so what inspired your poem?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:16:36
 ; Oh, just the guys coming back from overseas.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:16:44
 ; Okay, well, I would love to get a copy of it if you're if you're okay with that.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:16:51
 ; Yeah, you bet.
 ; LoNetta wrote a poem about the soldiers coming back from overseas. She says we don't know what is going to happen in our country, but we don't want to be scared like they were. Oklahoma City Bombing ; Covid ; Poem Historic events 0 4612 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:16:52
 ; Okay, um, is there anything else that you would like to tell us, or any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:17:03
 ; Oh, my. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:17:05
 ; This is your chance to leave your mark.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:17:08
 ; I think I've marked everything around town.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:17:14
 ; No, I mean any, any, any wisdom that you can think of that would be good for future generations to take to heart.
 ; 
 ; LoNetta White 1:17:28
 ; Main thing, I think would be one thing, is that I feel like that a lot of them live way beyond their means. One of these days that's all going to catch up with them, and when it does, then there's going to be lots of problems, you know, home, work or anywhere. And if they would take the time to look at what they say or do, there's enough mistakes made, accidentally, rather than planning them. And just be kind to each other.
 ; LoNetta feels like people nowadays live beyond their means. She feels it will catch up to them one day. She feels like materialism is a problem and we need to get back to the basics. Wisdom ; Materialism ; Family Wisdom 0 MP3 LoNetta Dowdy White, born August 24, 1940, in a log cabin near Bristow, Oklahoma, shared her life story. LoNetta's parents, John Buster Dowdy and Ollie Belle Williams Dowdy, farmed and worked in California's lettuce fields. LoNetta attended Iron Post School, where she enjoyed biology, and later got her GED at 50. She married Harold White in 1957 and worked at the garment factory and ran the businesses White's Radio & ; TV and Mistletoe Express. LoNetta had three children: James Allen White, Teresa Lynn White Alred, and Edgar Angel White. Regan Siler This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is July 23, 2024 and I'm sitting here with LoNetta White and her son, Jimmy White, at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? LoNetta White LoNetta Faye Dowdy White. Regan Siler Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview? LoNetta White Yes, you do. Regan Siler Okay, so can you tell us when and where you were born? LoNetta White I was born approximately two miles or so south of Bristow, in a two-room log cabin on August 24, 1940. Regan Siler August 24, 1940. LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler Okay, well, that's interesting. So can you tell us about the log cabin? Do you remember? LoNetta White No. Regan Siler You don't. LoNetta White No. Regan Siler How long were you in the log cabin? LoNetta White I don't even know that, because my folks would tell about my dad's sister lived there after they had moved out,or before, and different people that all were related to each other seemed to live there at one time or the other. And so I guess there was no date. Regan Siler So, I guess there was no doctor or anything at your birth? LoNetta White No, I don't think so. Regan Siler Don't think so, okay. LoNetta White Maybe that's why I'm like I am. Regan Siler So can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell us what your parents full names are? LoNetta White Okay, John, well, JB, and a lot of people called him John, and then they'd say John Buster. And then some of them called him Buck. And so he had several names, but usually Buster is what my mom would call him. Regan Siler And his last name was Dowdy? Regan Siler Dowdy, and I have his date of birth as September 19, 1907. LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler Okay. And then what about your mom? LoNetta White Ollie Belle Dowdy. And well, it was Williams and Dowdy, and she was born June 10, 1911. Regan Siler And just by the way, I love her name. I think Ollie Belle is the coolest name. I loved that when you told me. And do you have any siblings? LoNetta White Yes, Shirley Jean. Shirley Jean Dowdy. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White Groom and she is deceased. Regan Siler Okay. Is that your only sibling? LoNetta White No, it's the only sister. I have a brother, Roy Dean Dowdy, and he's deceased. Regan Siler Okay, so what type of work did your parents do? LoNetta White Well, farming was one thing, because they would just at a moment's notice, get up and head for California. And she had two sisters out there. My mom did, and they would go out there and stay maybe during the picking of the lettuce and all that stuff, you know, and then come right around and drive back home. Regan Siler So they would stay out that, when you say the picking of the lettuce, do you mean out there or here? LoNetta White No out there. Regan Siler So they would go out there and help. Is that what you mean? LoNetta White What's that called. Jimmy White They would go out to California before they ever had any kids in the 1930s during the Depression. Jimmy White And one of grandpa's sisters, Bessie Christian , and her husband, Earl, would go with them, and they didn't have any kids either. And so this was all during the 30s, and then they kind of sharecropped and stuff in the 40s. Regan Siler Okay. Regan Siler Oh! Jimmy White So grandpa went to work for that oil field. Regan Siler Okay? LoNetta White And that was back here. But they would go just to visit and then work while they were there, you know?Because when they leave Bristow, one night, the first night, and I think they said they had, like, a quarter in their pocket. They spent the night at parked alongside the road at the round barn up at Jimmy White Arcadia. LoNetta White Yes, and that's as far as they got that first night. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. LoNetta White So it was a chore just to drive out there. Regan Siler So, do you happen to remember, like, what type of car they drove at the time? Jimmy White They would buy something as cheap as they could, and then when they got back to Oklahoma, they would sell it, because that's what they would live on through the winter, whatever they had made and sell on the car. LoNetta White No. LoNetta White And one winter, I guess everybody was nearly starving, you know, and my dad would go out and kill rabbits, and then he would hang them on the clothesline. And anybody that came by that needed them could takethem. Regan Siler Oh, well, isn't that kind? LoNetta White So that went on, I guess all year. Regan Siler Right, so was this when you were young? Or do you remember was this before you? LoNetta White Yes, they were married for 10 years before they had children. Regan Siler Oh, okay, okay, so, and I don't think we can fully understand the times that they lived in compared to how we are or how we live now. So growing up, do you? Did you have, like, extended family that lived nearby you growing up? LoNetta White Everybody you knew was. Regan Siler Okay, so you had family near you? LoNetta White Not really family around Bristow, you know there would be some family, but not near enough that you could just walk and go see them or anything. Regan Siler Okay? So, like, grandparents or, like, what? LoNetta White Well, I never knew either grandmother. Regan Siler Really? LoNetta White They were, they were dead before I was born. And had one grandfather that lived in California and one that lived here. But you know, after his wife died, he was, he didn't care about being around anybody. So Jimmy White She had a lot of cousins that lived around Bristow, because grandpa had, there was seven brothers and sisters, and then some of them had 13, 14, 15 kids that lived around here. So she had a lot of Regan Siler There was a lot of cousins. Jimmy White Aunts and uncles, yeah. Regan Siler Okay, so how long has your family lived in the Bristow area? Would you say? Or do you even know? LoNetta White No, I really don't. Jimmy White They moved here from Arkansas when her dad was little, like, he's born in 1907 and so it was around 1914 they've got a family picture. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White And he was like, seven, and he said that was taken about the time they moved from Arkansas, Regan Siler And they moved to the Bristow area? Jimmy White To the Bristow area. Regan Siler To the Bristow area. So that was shortly after, I guess Bristow became Bristow, huh? Jimmy White Yeah, we don't really know the reason they did move here. Regan Siler Okay, it seems like in some of the other histories I've done, it's been because of, like, cotton early on, and then, of course, the oil boom happened. But that would be, that would be an interesting thing to know. LoNetta White I've got an old letter, if I can find it, where it was sent to my granddad. And of course, he's the one that brought them all here, and said something about he still owed for some cattle, or something like that. And apparently, Grandpa came from Arkansas to Oklahoma brought the cattle with him, and I don't know if he ever paid for. he may still owe them. Regan Siler So he brought, they not only moved, but they brought their cattle too. I bet that was a heck of a journey. Jimmy White He sent his wife and the small kids on the train, and him and the older boys came by horseback. Regan Siler Oh my goodness, and brought the cattle. Oh, my gosh. LoNetta White Probably ate them before they got here. Regan Siler Um, okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember having any favorite toys or childhood games that you enjoy playing? LoNetta White Yes, around the house. Mainly, we would play house. We would have a spot out in the yard, you know, around close, and we would have our old dishes or whatever, you know, and we would play with all that stuff. And there were, like, right at 10 families, I think, that lived on the lease, the old lease, and gosh, we would get together day or night. You know, at midnight, we may all be out there playing somewhere. Regan Siler So now, whenever your family came here, where did they end up settling? And is that where family land still remains today? LoNetta White No, and I really can't tell you the first place that they stayed. Regan Siler So, where were you? So were you still south of town, whenever you had like, you know when you're talking about playing house and all that where LoNetta White We had moved and that probably was when my dad had gone to work for the oil lease, for the Tibbens lease and Regan Siler Tibben lease? Jimmy White Tibbens lease, T I B B E N S. Regan Siler Tibbens, okay, gotcha. Regan Siler Okay, soyou were there, you were there for a little while. LoNetta White And so when, after we moved down there, we stayed there until between the sixth and seventh grade. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Did you have chores that you were expected to do around your place when you were young? LoNetta White Chores? Regan Siler Chores. LoNetta White Oh, chores, yes, anything I was told I was supposed to do so as far as just regular chores? No. Regan Siler So did you have, like, farm animals and stuff like that, or, and I'm guessing farm, you farmed or, LoNetta White Yeah, well, he didn't farm much after he went to work for the oil company, because they would be out every day. Regan Siler Didn't have time. LoNetta White He would raise a garden, but it would be, you know, much smaller than Regan Siler Manageable for the family to handle. Okay, yeah, um, did you have any friends that would come over and play with you, or was it mainly like your cousins and stuff? LoNetta White No, it was all different families that lived there on the lease and Regan Siler But not really families that weren't related to you, just families in general. Okay, right, okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? LoNetta White No, not well, fishing. Regan Siler Fishing. LoNetta White My brother and I went fishing every day, and it was across the road from where we lived and go up just up a hill, and there was a farm or a pasture, I should say, up there, and we would come in from school and get our fishing pole up the hill, we'd go. Regan Siler I think that sounds like a good after school activity. Jimmy White Her school was right down the road, at Iron Post. Regan Siler At Iron Post, okay, okay, um, did you collect anything as a child? LoNetta White No. Regan Siler Not that you remember, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Where did you first attend school? LoNetta White Iron Post. Regan Siler Iron Post, and so, I wonder how long that school was there, because it's not there now, right? LoNetta White No, the school isn't, but the old cellar is still out there, where they used to stick all of us. And it was a big cellar. It would hold 20-30 people, maybe, and it's still there, but they've taken the school down, but there's a house that sits there now. Regan Siler Okay, and how long did you attend school at Iron Post? LoNetta White Through the sixth grade. Regan Siler And how many, how many kids do you do you remember like, how many kids approximately went to that school? Was it a small school? LoNetta White Very. Regan Siler Very. LoNetta White My class, usually, from the first time I went to school until we left, had like three people in it, and they were brother and sister. Regan Siler Okay, do you remember having any particularly influential teachers during your time in school? And it doesn't have to be just at Iron Post, just any anytime throughout school? LoNetta White Well, at Iron Post, we only had two teachers. One taught from the first through the sixth, and Mrs., her name then was Dykes, and she taught the seventh and eighth. But they closed the school, and that was why we went, why we moved and went on to Bristow from there. Regan Siler To Bristow, okay, um, do you remember how you got to school as a child? Did you just walk and so, like, how far? How far again, was the school from your house? LoNetta White About a half a mile. Regan Siler Okay. One way? Okay. LoNetta White 50 miles going on. Regan Siler Well, so I guess then, probably, being a little small school like that, there probably wasn't, like, a lot of clubs or organizations or anything like that that you would have been involved in. Did you get involved in anything like that once you came to Bristow schools? LoNetta White Yeah. First of all, down at Iron Post, the only thing they had was, once a year, they'd have a pie supper, and they would use the money from the pie supper to buy candy and oranges and apples and stuff and sack them up for all the kids in school. Regan Siler Oh, that's neat. LoNetta White That was the only that was really the activity that they really had. Regan Siler Well, and then, so did you enjoy school? LoNetta White Oh, yeah! Regan Siler Okay, but now you told me something interesting about when we talked on the phone, because I understand you didn't graduate. Is that correct? But, but tell me about, tell me about your GED. That was an interesting story. LoNetta White I heard, I quit school. Regan Siler And why did you why did you quit school? If you don't mind me asking you just didn't like it? LoNetta White Didn't want to go. I got married during the summer between my junior and senior year. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And I just didn't want to go, and so I quit. Regan Siler You quit. Okay, so then LoNetta White Not that I am strong headed, or everybody around here that hears this annoys me. Regan Siler Is this why your son's shaking his head? LoNetta White He's got it, too! Regan Siler So the apple doesn't fall far from the tree? Okay? Jimmy White No it doesn't. Regan Siler So tell me about, I we're kind of fast forwarding a little bit, but tell me about, tell me the GED story, if you don't mind. LoNetta White Okay, I was just listening to the radio one day, and they had an interview with Waylon Jennings, and he was talking about that he had quit school, I don't know, senior year or something, you know, and he said, but I got my GED, and he said he took classes somewhere and was able to go and pass the test. Regan Siler And I'm not even sure I knew that about Waylon jennings, so that's news to me. LoNetta White I didn't either, but there's a film of it somewhere. And so anyway, he he got his GED that way. And I said, well, you know, because my husband played music all these years, and Waylon was talking, and so Harold and I were talking, and I said, Well, that's what I ought to do, is just go over and take the test. And he said, Well, you take classes, you know. And so I went to one class, which sounds like me. And I said, well, you know, there's no problem going to that class. So I just packed up and went over and took the test and passed and so Regan Siler But how old were you? LoNetta White Fifty! That's why, how old he was? I figured, if he could do it, I could. Regan Siler I think that's amazing! I really like it. Yeah, that's amazing. That's a neat story. So when you were in school, did you have a favorite, do you remember having a favorite subject? LoNetta White Yes, biology. Regan Siler Really?! That's interesting. And so what? LoNetta White I made good grades in biology but, gosh, Regan Siler So what would I mean that's to me, it's kind of a, not a super average thing for a girl to like, is biology. What made you LoNetta White Raised in the country I imagine. Regan Siler Okay. So that that just piqued your interest, then, huh? Okay, um, so we talked a little bit about the little cabin you were born in. Um, so from there, where did you what type of house did you move to? Do you remember? LoNetta White Um, no, because on the lease, the men, and I don't know how they did this, were in different grades of where they worked and different things like that. And, like I say, I don't know how they judged all that, but could have been by age, because the older ones lived closer to the front of the of the leasse than the younger ones did, and we had, you know, three or four houses in a row, and then there might not be one for maybe five acres on up. Regan Siler So, I guess so let's clarify that, because I don't even know that I've heard of such a thing. So at that time, they would have, like, an oil lease. So you would work for a company and that, and the workers would actually live on the lease? LoNetta White Yeah, but what it was was Paul Tibbens ran the lease and owned it, and of course, he lived here in Bristow, and they had a large house type shop, I guess, what you call it, in one center spot on this, I don't know, maybe 20 acres there. And they had a guy that lived up on the hill, that was one of the older ones. There was two of them up on this hill. And then you start down here with a house, and that old boy had been there, say, 10 years. And then you go over and you'd have three or four houses and and the people that lived there may have only been there three or four years. Regan Siler So, were these houses that people, own? Did, did the Tibbens oil lease own the houses and you guys rent them? Or did you guys own the houses? LoNetta White No, they owned. Tibbens owned the house. Regan Siler You just rented from them? LoNetta White I don't know how they did that. They may have been part of their Regan Siler Package of work. LoNetta White It may be. I don't, I don't know how that Regan Siler Okay. And, so, how do you remember how long you lived on this oil lease? LoNetta White No, it had to be at least, probably six years, because then we moved. Regan Siler And that's when you moved to the town of Bristow, or outside of Bristow? LoNetta White Outside of Bristow, out on Red Bank Road, which my dad bought a little farm out there and Regan Siler And you said, Red Bank Road? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And we lived there, well, I got married between my junior and senior year, so then I left and moved to town, so they lived out there three or four years after that. Regan Siler So in these houses that you lived in, did you like did you have your own room? LoNetta White My sister and I Regan Siler Shared a room? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler And where did you spend most of your time? Did you it seems like most people from that era spent most of their time outside, but I don't want to assume that. LoNetta White Well, they really did, and I think a lot of that was because of air conditioning. It was too hot! Regan Siler Amen to that! LoNetta White In fact, after we had moved out on Red Bank Road in the summertime, we would take an old pair of wire springs, bed springs, and throw them out in the yard and spread a quilt over them, and that's where we slept. Regan Siler Are you serious? LoNetta White Yeah. We woke up one morning and there was a skunk right up in the corner of the fence. Regan Siler Well, I can't imagine. I'm too soft. I can't imagine trying to sleep. My air conditioner goes out at this point in time. I'm, you know LoNetta White Looking for a motel! Regan Siler Exactly! I can't sleep if it's hot. Um, I think we're, we're probably pretty spoiled now. Um, okay, well, let's talk about meal times in your family and what that was like. Did you guys eat together as a family every night? LoNetta White Oh, yes. Regan Siler Okay, and so, did your mom do all the preparing...did you have any role in the preparing or cleaning up? LoNetta White Oh yeah, Shirley and I did the dishes. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White I can remember standing on a chair in the kitchen doing the dishes of a morning after breakfast when, of course, my dad had gone to work and she was getting Shirley ready for school, and it was before I went to school, and I had to wash dishes until she got Shirley's hair fixed because it was long, natural curl curlies. Regan Siler So you would have been little. You would have been pretty little. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Do you remember having like, a favorite meal or recipe that your mother cooked? Was there anything that youreally looked forward to or that was made? LoNetta White Every meal. Regan Siler So she must have been a good cook. LoNetta White She was. Jimmy White She was a good cook. Regan Siler So, did she teach you how to cook? Did you inherit...so you're not a good cook? LoNetta White Well, I like it, as you can see. I like it all right, I guess. Regan Siler Did you inherit any special recipes that you have today that were, that were your mothers? LoNetta White Yeah, and there was a few of her dishes broken, you know that we have a piece or two here, there, and Teresa [Teresa Lynn White Alred 8/24/1961] took a piece and, or whatever she wanted, you know, and Jimmy's got some and I've got some now. He took some of her recipes and he's put them in frames and they're hanging in his kitchen. Regan Siler Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. So what are do you remember maybe what some of the recipes are? Jimmy White One was lye soap she made homemade lye soap in a big black cast iron kettle. I've got it in my yard with flowers planted in it. Later she planted flowers in it. Another one is cough syrup, where you would use whiskey and butter and lemon. LoNetta White And she wouldn't take a drink or nothing. Jimmy White I think maybe meringue for a pie. I don't, I don't remember the other one right now? Regan Siler Oh, that's cool! LoNetta White Probably her biscuits because Regan Siler Good biscuits? LoNetta White Yeah, we've never matched them. Regan Siler That's, that's awesome. Um, so thinking about thinking back to town life and growing up, do you remember having any favorite, like Bristow community activities, for instance, say, like maybe Western Heritage Day, day camps, county fairs, things like that. Do you remember participating in any of those things and what was your favorite? LoNetta White Yes, when I was still at Iron Post, we used to always make stuff and take to the fair there at school, you know? And we always enjoyed that. And I've still got some of the old ribbons that Regan Siler Do you remember, like what types of things you would make? LoNetta White The first thing I ever made was a head scarf. And of course, they were made out of just cotton material back then. And they it was made a certain size, of course, and then you had to go by on the edges and pull certain threads and ravel out all the edges and stuff, you know. And so that took a lot of time just to do that. That was the first thing. Regan Siler So, so mainly, the things that you made were like clothing items? LoNetta White Yeah, maybe tea towels. Jimmy White And she used embroidery a lot too, Regan Siler Okay, but that was hand embroidery? Jimmy White Yes, yes. LoNetta White That was later, but I lost my left eye in '17 and I haven't embroidered since. Regan Siler Kind of changed your activities? Regan Siler Yeah, okay. Do you happen to remember the biggest or most popular businesses around town? Maybe, like growing up and through your early married life, like what businesses stick out to you? LoNetta White Yeah. LoNetta White Kemps, Penneys, there used to be a Sears and Anthony's. Regan Siler Bristow used to be happening at one time. LoNetta White My kids, of course, when we had Mistletoe Express, the kids were right there. They would come to the shop andstuff after school, and like Jimmy, in between pay day, when he went into Anthony's to deliver a package or something. He and and Mr. Evans were good friends, and he could go in there and charge anything in that store and walk out with it. Jimmy White Because I was working at their shop. Yeah, getting paid. LoNetta White And he would Regan Siler Now, is this a good thing or a bad thing? LoNetta White It was good. Jimmy White I learned a lot of responsibility, and taking care of bills. Regan Siler Well, good, it could go the other way, but you were responsible with it. Jimmy White Yes. LoNetta White And Eddie [Edgar Angel White 7/2/1964-7/24/1987] did the same thing at Western Auto. He came in one day with a brand new bicycle. He charged it up at Western and then when he got paid on the weekend, you know, he'd go up, pay, probably $2 or something on it. But he brought the bicycle on the first day, you know. Jimmy White He's probably like, 10 years old then. Regan Siler Oh, wow! LoNetta White And so we had Regan Siler Maybe some of the financial lessons some of our our youth are missing. LoNetta White Yeah, because they can't count change even now. Regan Siler I know, I know. Did you have a favorite place to eat, or did you primarily eat at home? LoNetta White Usually at home. Regan Siler But if you did get to go out, do you remember like a restaurant in town that you really liked eating at? LoNetta White Lyons Cafe. Regan Siler Lyons Cafe, and where was that? LoNetta White Where the where they took all the stuff out and built the Jimmy White Town Square. LoNetta White Yeah, the Town Square. Jimmy White The building is just south of the Town Square, and if you'll on the east side of Main Street, between sixth and seventh. And if you look up at the top of the buildings, you can faintly see where it's painted on there, Lyons Cafe. The building is still there. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White You can faintly see it. Regan Siler Okay. Now I'm going to have to look for it. Jimmy White Yeah, I can show it to you. LoNetta White Also the Harvey House was good. The Highway Cafe, we had several good places. Regan Siler You said the Harvey House, and where was that located? LoNetta White Where, let's see, where the Dollar Store is now. Jimmy White It was next to where the Dollar Store is now. Regan Siler And then what was the third one you mentioned? LoNetta White Highway Cafe. Regan Siler The Highway Cafe. Where was that one at? LoNetta White At the end of ninth on the corner, and it's got a real estate office there now. Regan Siler Okay, gotcha. Okay. Well, see, these are a few that I haven't I haven't heard or been familiar with, so that's, that's good information LoNetta White The school logs back then would help you a lot, too. Regan Siler Okay, all right. And did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? Where did you hang out when you were a teenager? LoNetta White On a horse. Regan Siler Good for you. So you liked to ride a lot, I guess? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Can you tell me any, anything about that? Regan Siler Oh, my. Margaret Styles (ph) and I were good, good friends. And of course, it was Garrison in the last few years,50 years, maybe. But you know, every every chance we got, we rode, and I tied my ol' horse up at her place one night, and spent the night, and it came a bad storm, and I tied her up real short. I went out the next morning, and, boy, she was split from, you know, on her face all the way down, but Margaret's horses had got out, and so they tried to fight, you know, in the barn there. And when we finally got her cut loose, which she she kicked me one time when I was trying to cut the rope to get her loose, but it took two weeks to catch her. Regan Siler Oh, boy. LoNetta White So we didn't even know then if we'd catch her or not, you know, but she was all healed up and mean as ever. Regan Siler So you just enjoyed so did you just, like, pick an area and ride and yeah, I mean, do you just just just rode, where ever? LoNetta White We rode to Depew [Oklahoma] one day and and pedaled around. And I don't, we never did take anything to eat, or I don't even remember taking anything to drink. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. LoNetta White I don't know what we did for all that, but Regan Siler I think sometimes when you're young and a kid, you just don't even think about stuff like that. You just get up and go. LoNetta White Well, we probably knew somebody along the way, and if we were thirsty, we stopped and got a drink. Regan Siler So instead of dragging main, you were riding horses? LoNetta White Well, we drug main after dark. Yes, ma'am. Regan Siler So draggin main was a fun thing to do? LoNetta White Oh, yeah. Regan Siler Okay, alright. LoNetta White Half the night. Regan Siler Um, where did you shop for clothes? And how often did you get new clothes? LoNetta White Not very often. And what we had, we usually made. We would buy the material. Regan Siler And so, did you make your clothes? Or did your mom make your clothes? LoNetta White Well, of course, the smaller I was, Mom made them, and the older I got, I made them, and Shirley did too. Regan Siler Wow. Okay, LoNetta White So they cut her down to just my brother, and wasn't hard to get him an old t shirt. Regan Siler Right, right. Um, so do you happen to remember your first family car. LoNetta White Family car. You mean Regan Siler Like that you had when you were young, like it whenever you were a kid, like, what was your first family's car? Do you remember? LoNetta White About the only one I remember, like when we lived down on the lease, was a Jeep. Regan Siler A Jeep, okay, all right. Did you ever get to go on vacations? LoNetta White Well, once a year, probably vacation for the whole lease probably at the same time, we used to go to one of the lakes. And I'm talking about like mostly the whole lease went. Regan Siler So when you say one of the lakes, do you mean one of the lakes around here? LoNetta White Yeah, we went to Greenleaf and Ten Killer. Okay, color places like that, you know. And Paul paid for all of that and took his boats and different things. And everybody partied for two or three days there. So that was more or less vacation. Regan Siler Got a little R& ; amp ; R that way? LoNetta White Yes, we did. Regan Siler Do you remember who taught you how to drive? LoNetta White I guess my dad. Regan Siler Your dad. And do you remember what your first car was? LoNetta White I didn't have one. I drove his old pickup sometime. And then after I got married, Harold had a Pontiac, and I drove it some but as far as me having a car, I never did. Regan Siler Didn't have one. Okay. LoNetta White Margaret did. We wore that sucker out. Regan Siler Well, you had to drag main in something. LoNetta White It was a station wagon, too. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Well, I guess you could haul your friends around. LoNetta White Yeah, we did some of that. Regan Siler So what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV? And if so, did you have a favorite program? LoNetta White Hmm? Uh, yeah, we watched TV some, but the main thing that we would look forward to was on Saturday morning, even though we had tons of laundry to do, which was on an old Maytag, you know, and especially in the winter, because you had the windows shut and stuff, and you couldn't hear any any radio or anything outside. But we would want to listen to the Lone Ranger and all of that good stuff they used to have. Regan Siler And on the radio, you're saying? Okay. LoNetta White Yeah, and so we would turn the radio radio up about as loud as it'd go. And then we were hanging the clothes out, we catch up on everything. So probably the Lone Ranger and the Creaking Door, and the radio shows. Regan Siler The radio shows. Did you have any particular style of music you liked at that time? LoNetta White No, just about everything, which I still like, about everything. But of course, really like country music. Regan Siler Country music. LoNetta White Not hillbilly music, country music. Regan Siler Okay, I'm glad we have that clarification. Do you recall witnessing any pivotal events in history that you watched on TV? LoNetta White Oh, yeah, of course, Kennedy being assassinated. Even part of the conventions that they have every year or every election year. There were some of them that were really good, really good. Regan Siler So how did you so do you remember about how old you are, you were, when Kennedy was assassinated? LoNetta White Well, that would be in 1963 so Jimmy White 23 she was born in '40. Regan Siler Okay, so Jimmy White Three, she had three kids. She couldn't have watched it too much. Regan Siler Yeah. Seriously. So do you remember, remember how you felt at that time, whenever you you saw the assassination. Do you remember how you felt? LoNetta White Yeah, because we were, we had the shop and the TV shop, and so I was right there, you know? And then Harold came in from, he'd been out working and stuff, and we just, we watched TV the rest of the day, just, youknow, just couldn't believe that somebody would do that. Regan Siler Right. Jimmy White Like we would have done it 911. Regan Siler That's, that's exactly what I was getting ready to say, because I felt like I was weirdly glued to the TV when that happened. LoNetta White And you were right there. Regan Siler Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Okay. So what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor, or did you mainly try to take care of things at home? I know, apparently, we had a recipe for cough syrup. Jimmy White Yeah! LoNetta White That was at home. Regan Siler Yeah. But did you, did you have medical care? Did you have a family doctor, or did you mainly try to take care of stuff at LoNetta White Most of it, you took care of at home. Regan Siler At home. LoNetta White Deep cuts. Jimmy White Tell her about your hand when you burned it. LoNetta White Oh, yeah, that was done when I was before I was a year old, and my folks had gone out to hang up clothes to dry, and Shirley was, supposedly, watching me. Well, she was only, what, 16 months ahead of me as far as age. Regan Siler So you were both really little? LoNetta White Yeah, but it was cold until they left us in the house, and I suppose that they heard me crying. I don't know just how that all took place, but anyway, I had crawled over to the stove, and of course, it was one of the old wood burning iron stoves, and so they ran in the house, and my dad lifted the lid off my hand. When I pulled my hand back, it was stuck to my hand. And so it was over a long time before that healed up, but they put unguentine on it. Regan Siler They put what? LoNetta White Unguentine. Regan Siler Unguentine. I don't know what that is. LoNetta White It's an old salve. Jimmy White Yeah, it would probably had some antibiotics in it, yeah. Regan Siler Because if that was, like, literally sitting on your hand, that had to have been like the worst, yeah, degree of burn. LoNetta White Yeah, it was. Regan Siler Bless your heart, that was so LoNetta White That would have been one of them. And then Regan Siler And, so, you never went to the doctor for it? Oh my gosh! Jimmy White They were still in the log cabin then. Regan Siler Oh my gosh. LoNetta White It was before I was a year old. Regan Siler It's a wonder anybody survived anything back then. I mean, my goodness. Jimmy White That's why they're so tough now. Regan Siler I know, exactly. LoNetta White That's my problem. And so anyway, then after that, we went to visit a cousin out north of town, and all the kidswere out playing and stuff like that, and I had climbed up on a rock. And, of course, first thing I did was fall off. And when I fell off, I landed on a half a fruit jar. And so I had seven cuts on one leg that they had to bring me to town, get me sewed up. Regan Siler And so about how old were you, then, do you remember? LoNetta White Maybe 10 or 12. Regan Siler So you did actually have to see the doctor on that one? LoNetta White Yeah, they had to sew it up. That was Dr Hollis [Joseph E. Hollis 10/13/1885-3/15/1968], which he was our family doctor. But now, you know, back when I don't really remember much of this, but they told the story later, when I was real small, it was around war time, you know. And my dad didn't, couldn't get in the service because he had a big knot that had grown at this side of his eye, not in it, but beside it. And they wouldn't take him because of that. And so he said, I'll just go get it cut off. So he did. And the doctor, which was Dr. Hollis, let me stand on the stool and watch him. And I wouldn't do that now for anything. Regan Siler Times are so different! LoNetta White But I had to see what was going on, you know. He let me stand up there on the stool watch him all the time. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Well, so then, did your dad go, did was he able LoNetta White No. Regan Siler He still wasn't able to get into service after that? Well, I don't think you find that, now, people like doing whatever they can to get into the service. That's, yeah, the difference in then and now, I think. Do you recall any, I mean, I know you've talked about a couple of your accidents, but any like serious, serious illnesses or epidemics that you or your family incurred in the time you were growing up? LoNetta White Not, not really, because we had, I mean, this wasn't an, I guess it was an epidemic like measles and, oh yeah. Regan Siler All the stuff we're vaccinated for now. Did you, like the measles, the mumps and stuff like that? Yeah, even chicken pox. LoNetta White Well, they gave me the chicken pox virus or the shots three times, and I never did take so they decided I wasn't going to take chicken pox, so Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And then, let's see, in the 70s, let's see, I had a horseback accident in when I was a senior in high school. Margaret, and I were riding to double on double and and the horse slipped on pavement and fell, and that put us both in the hospital. And they put me in the room, or brought Mrs. Corey (ph), which was the dean of girls atthe time. Jimmy White You broke your leg. LoNetta White Yeah, broke my leg. Margaret broke hers. And they brought Mrs. Corey (ph) in and put in the room with me, because Margaret got to go home a couple of days before I did. Regan Siler And when you say the dean of girls, what is, what does that mean? LoNetta White She told you what you could or could not do. Jimmy White Be like a counselor now. Regan Siler Oh, okay. LoNetta White But you couldn't wear blue jeans to school. I mean, that was you didn't do that. Okay, okay, but the doctor said you have to keep your leg up when you sit down. You have to prop that leg up. So I told Mrs. Corey (ph) and I got to be the one to wear the blue jeans to school. We just put a long zipper in them so that I could zip them, unzip them up over the cast. Regan Siler Oh my goodness. Jimmy White Because girls had to wear dresses at that time. LoNetta White Mrs. Corey (ph) had to keep her leg up, too. She broke it, and so, we all did that, you know. Regan Siler Okay, well, so did you happen to attend church growing up? LoNetta White Yes, we did. Regan Siler Okay. And if so, where did you attend? LoNetta White Christian Church. Regan Siler Christian Church. And so, where would that...is that building still around? LoNetta White Yes, sixth and Elm Jimmy White Here in Bristow. Regan Siler Okay, okay. Do you remember what like a typical service was? Did you have favorite hymns or songs that you sang, or any specific memories from being in church that that you enjoyed? LoNetta White Nothing extra special. I met Harold [Harold Jason White 2/14/1935-11/14/1992] in April. We got married in August, and he went to the Church of God, and so that's where we went, yeah, after that, so, and Margaret Regan Siler The Church of God that's still where it is now? LoNetta White Yeah, Jimmy White But it was the old Church of God then. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White Then they got married at the Presbyterian Church. Regan Siler They were married at the Presbyterian Church? Okay. Jimmy White Yes. LoNetta White Because we would go to the youth group during the week, and that was held at the Presbyterian Church. Regan Siler Okay, okay. LoNetta White And the preacher at the Presbyterian Church married us. Regan Siler Okay. So thinking back to holidays when you were young and with your family, did your family celebrate holidays in a big way? Like, can you remember what Christmas was like, or any other holidays that you really enjoyed? LoNetta White Yeah, lots of people. Regan Siler Lots of people. Lots of family? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Okay. And where did you usually celebrate Christmas? LoNetta White In most cases, at our house. Regan Siler Okay, and so was it, did you have a lot of decorations? Regan Siler No. Regan Siler Was there gifts? Was there just a lot of people and food, maybe? LoNetta White Yeah. Now, as far as the gifts go, most of your gifts are at our house, of course, came from your mom and dad, and if we were lucky, we would get, like, a toy or something for Christmas, and mainly Shirley and I would get a new doll, something like that. And I don't remember what Dean got, probably a truck or something, you know. Regan Siler Do you, do you remember any particular gift that you got that maybe, really stood out to you, or a particular doll that you just absolutely loved or was excited about? LoNetta White No, not especially, but I did get hair clips one year. They were blue birds. About so big. And gosh, they were the prettiest things I've ever seen. And not long after that, we had company, and they had a little girl, and I don't even remember who it was, but she liked my hair clips so much that my mom gave her my hair clips. Regan Siler Oh, no! LoNetta White Yeah. Oh, I thought I was gonna die, right there. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness, yeah, you were probably heartbroken, weren't you? LoNetta White Yeah, that was terrible. Regan Siler Did you celebrate any other holidays, like Fourth of July or Easter or Halloween? Were any of those a big deal in your family? LoNetta White Halloween wasn't because we stayed scared half the time. We were somebody was always hurt or something. Regan Siler So mainly, Christmas was Jimmy White Thanksgiving would have been a big Regan Siler Thanksgiving. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler I was going to ask Thanksgiving. Jimmy White The Fourth of July, they would have been outside, whether they had any firecrackers or not. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Right. Jimmy White They would have had homemade ice cream, watermelon. LoNetta White Gone fishing, yeah. Regan Siler Right. LoNetta White We spent a lot of time on Deep Fork. Regan Siler On Deep Fork? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Oh gosh. Okay. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler So you probably have some Deep Fork stories, don't you? LoNetta White Yeah. And they would, of course, we'd spend the night. Regan Siler Oh my gosh. On Deep Fork?! LoNetta White Yep! Regan Siler You really weren't too scared, then, were you? LoNetta White Not of anything, I don't think. Regan Siler I think are areas of Deep Fork that I don't even know what goes on. Jimmy White Yeah. LoNetta White Well, down there where Three Bridges is Regan Siler Oh gosh! LoNetta White All of that was, you know, a favorite fishing place. Regan Siler Right, right. LoNetta White Still would be if you could get to it. Regan Siler So this is, like, a random thing that's on my list, but it makes me think, when you start talking about being on Deep Fork and Three Bridges and all that area, what did you do back in the day for like, ticks and chiggers and mosquitoes and Jimmy White Pull the ticks off and scratch the mosquito bites. Regan Siler So did you just, I mean, you didn't have any way to prevent any any of that stuff, like ticks or chiggers? LoNetta White We were tough. Regan Siler Oh, lordy. LoNetta White And, not only that, but in the summertime, you practically had to go without shoes because you couldn't affordto buy another pair. And if you outgrew what you had on, then you usually didn't get them to school. Regan Siler Right. You were just, wow, you were just barefoot, then. LoNetta White Yeah, and that sand, oh, it would be hot. And them old, great, big old stickers. Regan Siler Oh, gosh yes, because we've got the stickers like crazy. LoNetta White Think of a, what they call a goat head, which is a huge sand bur. And when you got them, boy, you knew it. Regan Siler Like I said, I'll reiterate, I don't know how anybody survived. Okay, well as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Did you have any like, oh, I want to be a particular something or other when you grew up? LoNetta White Not really. After oh, I don't know, later years, after I'd been going to Bristow Schools, I had another friend. Her name was Margaret, also. Regan Siler So, you had two Margarets? LoNetta White Margaret [undecipherable]. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. LoNetta White One was a Sipler and one, which was Theodore Abraham's stepdaughter. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White So we had to be good. And the other was Margaret Stiles [Margaret Stiles Garrison], which I met her about the time we moved over to Red Brick [Bank] Road, and that's what it was. Regan Siler So do,do you did you have something that you wanted to be when you grew up? Do you remember anything? LoNetta White We were gonna join the Navy. Regan Siler Join the Navy? LoNetta White And so Margaret did. I got married, and then Margaret went and joined the Navy. And so, Teresa [Teresa Lynn White Alred], my daughter, when she was old enough, she joined the Navy. So she took my place. Regan Siler That's interesting. Well, let's talk about some of the different jobs you had during your life. I know when we had talked on the phone before, maybe specifically, like your businesses that you had here in town. I think you said you started at the garment factory. So start from there and tell me, tell me what all you've done. LoNetta White Okay, I went to work at the well, if I start the very first one, I'd have to go to seventh grade, because I worked at the cafeteria at Washington back in the seventh grade. Regan Siler Wow, okay. LoNetta White And there was a little boy and girl, brother and sister, and they were really pale looking, you know. And he would go and get her and bring her to class, or bring her to eat every day and then take her back to class. And so once in a while, we'd buy them a bottle of milk, because they never had anything to drink, like that. Me and the girl that worked with me and Regan Siler And this was you in the seventh grade? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And so they brought their lunch in a syrup bucket, and they had biscuits and stuff like that, you know. And so we kept talking to the lady that ran the cafeteria, and we kept buying their milk out of our paycheck, which was $7.50 a week, yeah. And so she finally got their milk for free for the kids. And about a week they both had big old rosy cheeks. And so she got their lunches for them for free. So, so it was Regan Siler You're, I can tell you're a tender hearted, caring, loving to do that as a seventh grader. I mean, my goodness, soyou recognize that they were probably malnourished. LoNetta White Yeah, yeah. Regan Siler As a seventh grader. LoNetta White Biology. Regan Siler Biology, yeah. Well, bless you for doing that. LoNetta White So then I went to work at the garment factory. Regan Siler And how old were you then? LoNetta White Well, I was probably here. Probably Jimmy White You would have had to been 18, because she'd been she was 19 three weeks when I was born. LoNetta White Yeah, but I was working there before you were born. Jimmy White That's why I said you had to be 18. LoNetta White That's true. LoNetta White Because when she got married, she had been 17 for like a week, so. LoNetta White Yeah. And then he, that was in '57 and Jimmy [James Allen "Jimmy" White] was born in '59. Jimmy White And so you would have been 18. LoNetta White Yeah. And then we Harold put in the radio and TV shop and Regan Siler And that was called White's, right? Jimmy White White's Radio & ; amp ; TV. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White Repair, yeah. LoNetta White And then when we moved to the down on Seventh Street, we rented from Mr. Slyman. And then later on, we were able to buy the building just two doors up, and so we bought it, and we were still just right there on Seventh Street, and we're across the street from, well, it's Dr Cantrell now. Regan Siler Okay. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And so that's where the shop was, and worked there. We had the shop for 20 some years. Jimmy White They also had Mistletoe Express. Regan Siler And she mentioned that, and I can you tell me a little bit more about that? Like, what did you do? Like, what was that? LoNetta White Okay, it was a, like, a 16-wheeler that come through here with hauling freight and Jimmy White Like, a precursor to UPS. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White Yeah. Only it was out of a Regan Siler So, were you like, a distribution place, or did Jimmy White People would mail boxes or whatever, engines, meat and would come in and we would deliver it to the businesses, homeowners, whatever. Regan Siler So you were kind of like a hub then? Jimmy White Yeah. Regan Siler Okay, okay. Jimmy White Had two trucks a day. One the middle of the night. Regan Siler So they would bring and then you would deliver, right? And I guess you were part of that delivery service? Jimmy White Ever since I was old enough to walk. Regan Siler Okay. And so you had told me you had Whites for 25 years, and then the freight company, Mistletoe Express for 22 years, and that was kind of simultaneously, kind of during the same time you had LoNetta White Yeah, yeah, the guy that used to deliver the freight here, I don't remember if he passed away or what happened, but anyway, they were looking for a place to put it, you know. And you needed a they needed a place that would be have people there that could, yeah. And so somebody had sent them down to us. And so we went ahead and said, well, we'll try it, you know. So 22 years or so later. Regan Siler So your family, obviously, worked with you in this business. Did you have other employees that helped? Regan Siler Help with deliveries and stuff. And then, I guess also, simultaneously, you had something with the Greyhound Bus? LoNetta White Yeah, yeah, because we still had the guys would do antennas, or if you had a TV, you had to pick up and deliver, or anything of that nature. You know, you still had all that to do. And then we had, usually high school boys that would come in in the afternoon and work. LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler What so explain that, how that worked, what LoNetta White That was just across the alley from our shop up down there, and Regan Siler So you were on seventh, across from doctor, from the Vision Center, Dr Cantrell, so you were on that block on the south side, okay. So that's where White's and Mistletoe was, but then the Greyhound Bus, was it a bus station? Or, I didn't even know Bristow had a Greyhound Bus station. LoNetta White Yeah. Jimmy White Yeah, yeah, it was a bus station. LoNetta White That was all it was. And they the guy that ran it, George Burkle (ph), he had a heart attack. And so they needed a place, until they could find a place to put the bus station, because they had busses coming in during the day or people needing tickets to go somewhere and different things like that. And so they came to see us. And so Regan Siler It sounds like everyone came to see you when they needed a new business. LoNetta White That was a busy place. Jimmy White They had two busses from Tulsa every day and two from Oklahoma City every day, seven days a week. Regan Siler So, you know, I've lived Jimmy White You didn't grow up with a bus. Regan Siler I know, and so like I've lived through the time of, I hate to say it, but kind of Bristow's decline, I guess. I feel like we're kind of on an upswing again now. But to hear and to listen to these different oral histories of how Bristow used to be, and I'm not, I mean, I know it was booming during the oil boom, but I'm saying like in the time that you're talking about. I'm just like, I can't imagine that Bristow was ever even like that. So what happened to make the bus station not be here anymore? LoNetta White They quit running busses. Regan Siler Oh, okay. Jimmy White Gas wars in the 70s, we would have been in the 70s the gas wars and people had cars. People, everybody didn't used to have a car. It was easier and cheaper to ride the bus. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White Mm, hmm. Jimmy White And we had people that would ride back and forth every week to Tulsa on the bus, stay up there all week, and then on the weekend, come home. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White And if you could do it for $1 or two, that was cheaper than having to Regan Siler Own a car. Jimmy White Right? Regan Siler Wow. So you were extremely busy. LoNetta White Yes! Regan Siler You had to have three businesses that you were trying to run. You had to have been extremely busy. LoNetta White Well, we'd start about 7:00, between 7-7:30 in the morning, and you worked until it was done, you know. But usually we would try to get out of there by 5:00 or 5:30 or something like that. But now around Christmas time, sometimes you couldn't do that. Jimmy White And on Thursday you couldn't. That was Avon day. Oh, that was the day all the ladies got their Avon in, and we had to deliver it. Regan Siler Oh, man! LoNetta White Big old boxes, and you'd go home smelling like every bit of it. Regan Siler Oh, that's good. Okay. Well, let's, let's talk about your spouse, when and where did you first meet your spouse? LoNetta White Okay, I met him April. I was in the hospital from the horse accident. Regan Siler The broken leg? LoNetta White Yeah, and he had caught his hand in the printing press. He worked at the Bristow News. He had been putting paper on, and the guy reached up and turned on the press, and it caught his hand in there. And so he would, that's what he was in there for. And then we ended up getting married in August. Regan Siler So you met in the hospital? LoNetta White Yeah! Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! LoNetta White Played checkers all day. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Um, okay, well, I missed getting what is his full name, LoNetta White Harold Jason White [2/14/1935-11/14/1992]. Regan Siler And I have his date of birth as February 14, 1935? LoNetta White Yes. LoNetta White Is that correct? Okay, and he's deceased? LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler Okay, um, so what was your first impression of Harold? LoNetta White Oh, glad to see anybody beside Mrs. Corey. Bless her heart. Regan Siler He was a friendly face, then? Regan Siler Oh gosh! Do you, so, did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period, or did you just decide you were getting married and got married? LoNetta White Yeah, because he was in the room with a boy that we went to school with, which he, supposedly, had pneumonia, but he spent a lot of time out in the hall, you know. And he and Margaret Ann got put to bed for racing in wheelchairs down the hall. LoNetta White No, there was, yeah, we got engaged. And, you know, they used to put your picture in the paper and, and, well, they just plastered stuff everywhere, like that, you know? And yeah. Regan Siler So, you had your engagement period, and then ,so, and you got married at the Presbyterian Church. LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler What was your Jimmy White Tell her how you bought your wedding dress. LoNetta White Oh, I worked for a lady at Sapulpa that needed someone to stay with her. Jimmy White Help take care of her. LoNetta White Yeah, just help take care to be there, in other words, and from there, that's what I used to buy my wedding dress. Regan Siler So, wait, you said the chickens and what? Jimmy White Tell her about the chickens with it, Ella and Everett, oh, that was to help pay for her wedding dress also. Jimmy White Ella and Everett, that was LoNetta White My mom's cousin. LoNetta White Her mom's cousin, okay, and her husband. LoNetta White They lived way out in the country, and they farmed and sold a lot of chickens. They raised chickens, and she would I went to stay with her to help her one summer, and she would get me up early of a morning and have breakfast. And then we would start killing chickens at like, maybe seven o'clock of the morning, and do it all day. Regan Siler I feel like you've done and seen pretty much all of it, haven't you? LoNetta White Pretty close. I'm trying to go on for some more here if I can get these durn doctors on the stick. Regan Siler Oh, my, so you killed, you killed chicken to earn money to purchase your wedding dress. LoNetta White Oh, I can cut a good chicken up fast. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? I mean, obviously, you were young. Um, what did was it a financial struggle? Was it, I mean, was it, tell me about it. What was it like? LoNetta White Well, kind of was because Harold had just got out of the Navy, and he went back to work at the news office. And, of course, I quit school. That's why I probably went to work. And, you know, everything was just tight, but we were young and happy and didn't make any difference, so Regan Siler It didn't matter to you, did it? LoNetta White No. Regan Siler Yeah. So how many children do you have? LoNetta White Three. Regan Siler Okay, can you tell me their full names and their dates of birth? If you know them. LoNetta White James Allen White, which is Jimmy here. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White Teresa Lynn White Alred. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And a little story with that is when she was going to marry an Alred, I said, well, you're going from White to Alred, so all your children are going to be pink! And then Edgar [Eddie] Angel White. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And he was killed in a car accident in '87. Regan Siler Okay. And I have, I have Jimmy's birthday is 9/17/1959 and I have Teresa's date of birth of as 8/24/1961 and then and he went by Eddie? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Is that right? Okay. And so date of birth 7/2/1964. LoNetta White Right. Regan Siler And passed away 7/24/1987. Jimmy White Okay, his birthday was 7/3/1964. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White And Teresa was born on mom's 21st birthday. Regan Siler What a birthday present?! So what were you, what would you say would be the challenges of being a mom to to three little kids back in the day? What kind of challenges did you experience? LoNetta White Other than Eddie was accident prone. He kept us pretty busy. Jimmy White We stayed with Grandma a lot when we were small and they were working at the shop. Regan Siler Trying to work? Jimmy White Right, yeah. Regan Siler Because they had all these businesses they were trying to run. Jimmy White Grandpa was still working, so grandma took care of us a lot in the summer, but then we were down at the shop before school and after school, and definitely were down there at an early age. Jimmy White That's a family business. LoNetta White Yeah. We had a baby bed set up down there for Eddie, because he was pretty small when he was born. He justweighed like five pounds, and so he was a month early, and instead of crying, he just made a squeaking sound.And they called him squeaky for years, and we had to really watch the trains down there. When he got where he could walk. Regan Siler He wanted to go see the trains. LoNetta White He would go see the trains. Regan Siler Oh mercy! LoNetta White Climb out of his bed, and he would go to the track. So everybody got to where they would just drop whatever they're doing and go look, you know, I'm talking neighbors around there, down at the shop, and they just Regan Siler Because they would know to, like, look for him? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler Oh, my gosh! LoNetta White Yeah, and then one day Regan Siler That's the true meaning of it takes a village. LoNetta White Yeah, we had that. And one day down there, I was sitting at my desk, and something goes out front. You know,we had those big old windows. In fact, they're still there. But anyway, I got up and went and looked, and here goes this old wooden wheelchair down the street, down the sidewalk, and Adam Titus and he was pushing, andEddie was riding, and they were headed for the train track just as hard as they could go and, shoot, they were maybe five years old! Jimmy White But they found an old wheelchair. LoNetta White Yep, and they were coming down through there, just lickety split. Regan Siler Oh my gosh. You didn't have to worry about creativity back then. You figured out what to do to be able to play. LoNetta White You got an imagination, you could do it. Regan Siler Right. Do you have any grandchildren? LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler How many grandchildren do you have? LoNetta White I have three. Regan Siler Three. Do you want to tell me their names? LoNetta White Yeah. Jimmy White Well, four. LoNetta White Yeah, one passed away. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Kenneth Alred. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And he's in the Air Force, and he's in Florida right now. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White Justin, do you want their middle names or Justin Alred? Regan Siler That's okay, yeah, Justin Alred and who else? LoNetta White And Jimmy White Daniel, Daniel Alred, he's the one. He drowned when he was 14. Those, all three are brothers. Regan Siler And so these are your sister's children? Jimmy White Yes, yes. LoNetta White Okay. And then Eddie had one. Regan Siler Okay. LoNetta White And it was Brandon Dale White. Regan Siler So all of them are living except Daniel? LoNetta White Yes. Regan Siler Is that correct? Okay, okay. LoNetta White And there are, what, 10 grandkids? Jimmy White No, 11. She's got 11 great-grandkids and one great, great, Regan Siler Eleven great-grands and one great, great. Jimmy White There's five generations. Regan Siler Okay. Jimmy White I've had to step in for my brother, for his generation, you know. But there's five generations. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness, okay. I'm going to ask you a little bit of a hard question. This one might make you think a little bit. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? LoNetta White Hmm. I don't know, unless it's the way electronics have gone that, you know, being involved with all of that when it was coming up the first time around. And some of the things that I see now, I think, you know, how did they do that. Regan Siler Right, right. LoNetta White So, it's not biology, I'd say electronics. Regan Siler Electronics, okay. How do you feel the world is different than when you were a child? LoNetta White Well, we were a village raising kids back then. If you did something wrong, you got a whippin' for it. And you didn't do it again. And nowadays, you know kids, I don't know, some of them are, are just not looked after. Regan Siler Or maybe they lacking discipline? LoNetta White Yeah, lacking discipline or missing love somewhere along the way. Regan Siler Yeah, okay. What do you feel our nation's biggest problem is currently? LoNetta White Ooh! One president quitting and the Vice President taking over, and then the election that's coming up, and the FBI agent quit this morning, and Regan Siler I feel like we're living in some pivotal times right now. Jimmy White Yeah, we are. It's scary. Regan Siler Which I think is good to document, too, just because who the heck knows what's gonna happen in the next four months! Quite a cluster. How have any historic events affected you? For instance, like the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, maybe COVID, natural disasters? Have there been anything like that that's personally affected your life? LoNetta White Yeah, I think so. Back I wrote a poem back then, which I did bring to show you that, you know, you just, you just don't know what's going to happen. And I think everybody should stop and take a second look at all that. And we don't want that in our country. We don't want to be scared like a lot of them are. Regan Siler And so what inspired your poem? LoNetta White Oh, just the guys coming back from overseas. Regan Siler Okay, well, I would love to get a copy of it if you're if you're okay with that. LoNetta White Yeah, you bet. Regan Siler Okay, um, is there anything else that you would like to tell us, or any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? LoNetta White Oh, my. Regan Siler This is your chance to leave your mark. LoNetta White I think I've marked everything around town. Regan Siler No, I mean any, any, any wisdom that you can think of that would be good for future generations to take to heart. LoNetta White Main thing, I think would be one thing, is that I feel like that a lot of them live way beyond their means. One of these days that's all going to catch up with them, and when it does, then there's going to be lots of problems, you know, home, work or anywhere. And if they would take the time to look at what they say or do, there's enough mistakes made, accidentally, rather than planning them. And just be kind to each other. Regan Siler Okay, so am I hearing you say that maybe, like materialism is kind of a problem. People wanting material things versus LoNetta White I really believe that is Regan Siler Putting an emphasis on material things versus maybe family and time and that kind of thing. LoNetta White Well, if they take care of the material things the way that they should, there won't be near as many family things go wrong. I mean, you can look around and you see all these brand new cars sitting out at school. Who's paying for them? I mean, you know, the kids don't, because they can't afford $1,000 a month for a car. They don't even work. And so you've got things like that, and then you've got all the groceries. Well, you gotta have all the cars, the clothes and the shoes and stuff to go with that. Someone's gonna sink one of these days. Regan Siler So basically, get back to the basics. LoNetta White Absolutely start there again. And I think everybody would be a lot happier. And, you know, get rid of the drugs. Regan Siler I can't disagree with anything that you've said, and honestly, that's been something we've talked about in our own family, as far as you know, what are you doing? Why are you working so much, like, for what? LoNetta White Yeah. Regan Siler When I think time and family and is really what's most, most important. LoNetta White Well, to just show you the difference, back when we worked and and we worked, you know, long hours and andgradual years added on even to what we were doing to start with. And, gosh, I moved to town about a year ago from the country, and my house had been paid for for what, 30 years? Jimmy White No. Probably 50. LoNetta White Probably 50, because I've been out there 60-some years. And, you know, I didn't owe a bunch of bills. I still don't. Regan Siler Stay out of debt. That's another good word of wisdom, huh? LoNetta White Absolutely. So it doesn't take near the money for me to live. That's what most people just fluff off. Regan Siler Right, right. Oh, I agree. I agree. Well, we appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum. We really appreciate you and thank you. Regan Siler Thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0061_LoNetta_White.xml OHP-0061_LoNetta_White.xml
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Title
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LoNetta White
Description
An account of the resource
LoNetta Dowdy White, born August 24, 1940, in a log cabin near Bristow, Oklahoma, shared her life story. LoNetta's parents, John Buster Dowdy and Ollie Belle Williams Dowdy, farmed and worked in California's lettuce fields. LoNetta attended Iron Post School, where she enjoyed biology, and later got her GED at 50. She married Harold White in 1957 and worked at the garment factory and ran the businesses White's Radio & TV and Mistletoe Express. LoNetta had three children: James Allen White, Teresa Lynn White Alred, and Edgar Angel White.
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OHP-0061
Date
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2024/07/23
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audio
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7683ab0fe587cb7e6a1d39675b3e0c1a
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Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Helen Marie Varner
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0060_Helen_Marie_Varner.xml
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5.4 July 18, 2024 OHP-0060 Helen Marie Varner OHP-0060 01:01:53 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Helen Marie Varner Cheryl Varner Regan Siler 1.0:|26(10)|66(11)|95(6)|117(11)|145(13)|174(7)|199(15)|227(7)|248(8)|281(3)|325(6)|349(6)|379(8)|413(7)|437(4)|476(16)|504(17)|534(4)|575(10)|596(11)|621(7)|651(6)|692(7)|709(15)|727(14)|755(6)|778(3)|795(8)|816(9)|828(3)|854(4)|890(6)|901(12)|922(7)|952(3)|980(3)|1003(13)|1030(3)|1064(4)|1110(18)|1140(16)|1173(3)|1212(3)|1235(5)|1263(19)|1291(14)|1321(7)|1339(10)|1364(13)|1393(13)|1415(13)|1442(4)|1466(10)|1483(9)|1492(6)|1506(17)|1522(4)|1548(8)|1576(14)|1595(6)|1615(3)|1633(11)|1636(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0060 Varner, Helen Marie.mp3 Other audio 1 Background This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 18, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Helen Marie Varner and her daughter-in-law, Cheryl Varner, at the Bristow Library Annex. She’s going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; HV: Helen Marie Varner.
 ; Helen talks about her early life. She was born in Sapulpa, Oklahoma. Helen is currently 87 years old. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Helen Marie Varner ; Cheryl Varner ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Life ; background 0 66 Parents and Siblings RS: Can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parents’ full names?
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad’s name was Gilbert Johnston [Gilbert Rossie “Gib” Johnston 10/8/1913-10/30/1982] and mother’s name was Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston [Helen Lucille “Sassy” Bristol Johnston 8/8/1920-8/27/2007].
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, and I understand that did your dad go by Gib?
 ; 
 ; HV: Gib, yeah.
 ; Helen tells Regan the names of her parents. Helen also says that she has one brother, Sam. Gilbert Rossie Johnston ; Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston ; Sam Everett Johnston ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Farmer's Feed Store Family 0 126 Parents' Occupations RS: Okay. What type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad was road foreman, a road supervisor, first for, well, he mowed the highway with a team of horses.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my gosh.
 ; 
 ; HV: Then he went to work for Buster Hudgins (ph), who was the county commissioner for Creek County, and then he went to work for Mr. Barnhart (ph) who was also a county commissioner. So, he was the road boss for two different people. And then he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee [Oklahoma] in 1964.
 ; Helen's father was a road supervisor, then later went to work for Buster Hudgins. Buster was the county commissioner. Later on, he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee. Helen's mother ran the cafe both in Okmulgee and later here in Bristow. Buster Hudgins ; Creek County ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Occupation 0 179 Grandparents RS: Okay. Growing up, did you have family that lived nearby you?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah. Both grandparents, my aunts and uncles. It’s always been very close.
 ; 
 ; RS: Very close. So, grandparents on both sides?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen lived close to both sets of grandparents when she was growing up. She was always close to family. Grandparents ; Aunts ; Uncles Grandparents 0 200 Moving to Bristow RS: Okay, and aunts and uncles. Has your family, well, obviously, you started off in Sapulpa, so how long has your family been in the Bristow area?
 ; 
 ; HV: We moved here in 1970.
 ; 
 ; RS: 1970.
 ; 
 ; HV: Except for Sam and Kay. They still live in Sapulpa.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so tell me why they moved here.
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad popped off and sold the sale barn at Okmulgee.
 ; Helen and her family moved from Sapulpa to Bristow in 1970. They moved because her father had sold the Okmulgee sale barn and then ended up buying the sale barn in Bristow. Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; sale barn ; Doyle Matthews ; Mr. Foster ; Leon Devine ; Barlett-Collins Bristow (Okla.) 0 303 Early Childhood RS: Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, all right. So, let’s talk about your early childhood and your home life. We’re going to dig real deep now.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay.
 ; 
 ; RS: Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood or favorite games that you played?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, I was like a tomboy, so we had little holsters and guns and we played cowboys and Indians.
 ; Helen was a tomboy growing up and loved to play cowboys and Indians. She did have one friend that she played dolls with. Helen's chores consisted of helping around the farm doing things like milking the cows and feeding the goats. Games ; Chores ; Farm ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Childhood 0 433 Hobbies as a Child RS: Okay. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; HV: Barrel racing.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you were a barrel racer?
 ; 
 ; HV: Not the best, but I was one because my dad, if you had a good horse, and somebody wanted to buy it, he sold it. So, I was put on a lot of different horses, a lot of different times.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how long would you say you barrel raced?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, I was probably 15 until, no, I would have been younger than that. Twelve to eighteen.
 ; 
 ; RS: All right. Did you collect anything as a child?
 ; 
 ; HV: No.
 ; Helen loved to barrel race when she was young. She rode many different horses because her father sold them often. Barrel racing Hobbies 0 466 School RS: You were always outside playing, weren’t you? So, let’s talk about your school life. Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, Lonestar School, two-room, outside toilet. We had one through, let’s see, one through four and then five through eight.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, and then from there where did you go?
 ; 
 ; HV: Sapulpa High.
 ; 
 ; RS: To Sapulpa High School. Okay. So, did you, you graduated from Sapulpa, right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen first attended school at Lonestar. Later she attended Sapulpa High School. Helen's favorite subject was math. Lonestar School ; Sapulpa High School ; Sapulpa (Okla.) school 0 612 Childhood Home RS: Yeah, exactly! So, I know you kind of mentioned your house. Can you tell me about the house that you grew up in? Like what it was like.
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, it was just a four-room house and we had a wood stove, but we also had one gas stove, and we had heavy blankets, and momma used to heat bricks to put at our feet in the winter time. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Wow!
 ; 
 ; HV: No water. I’ve already told you we had water out of the buckets.
 ; Helen's first home as a child did not have indoor plumbing. Her family had an outhouse and did not get indoor plumbing until Helen was 14 when they bought another home. house ; outhouse ; Plumbing Home 0 711 Mealtimes RS: Okay, so what were mealtimes like in your family? Did you get together every night and sit down to eat dinner?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so, was your mom a fabulous cook?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, she was a great cook.
 ; 
 ; RS: Is that where, I mean, obviously, we all know that you’re a heck of a cook, too. Is that where you
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, my mom, and eventually, Jerry’s mom. She was a great cook, too.
 ; Helen and her family always ate dinner together every night. Her mother was a great cook. Helen had many great cooks to teach her-her mother, grandmothers and later her mother-in-law. Her favorite meal was roast beef. Mealtime ; Cook ; Mother ; Grandmother Mealtimes 0 805 Bristow RS: Okay, well, thinking about, okay, so when did you, do you remember how old you were when you moved to Bristow.
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t remember how old I was but 
 ; 
 ; RS: Roughly, so were you
 ; 
 ; HV: I was married with three kids
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so you were married with
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, Sam and Jeff was in the first grade.
 ; Helen does not remember exactly how old she was when she moved to Bristow. She says she was married with three children when they moved. Bristow (Okla.) ; Sammy Dean Varner ; Jeffrey Joe Varner Bristow (Okla.) 0 821 Community Activities RS: Okay, so, thinking back to town life around Bristow, do have memories of favorite community activities like Western Heritage Days, county fairs, day camps, stuff like that? Do you have any memories of that? Even if it’s with your kids.
 ; 
 ; HV: Of course, the kids got into sports immediately. But at the sale barn, we had Ben Camp, T. Reid McCollough’s boys, all these kids worked for us starting out. And, so, there was always people around and all of that was fun. And you got involved with the parents in that way.
 ; Helen says her children immediately got into sports when they moved to Bristow. She also said they had Ben Camp at the sale barn and were involved in the community with that. Western Heritage Days ; Ben Camp ; T. Reid McCollough Community Activities 0 874 Businesses Around Bristow RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember some of the biggest and/or most popular businesses around town?
 ; 
 ; HV: JC Penneys was in the old Root’s building.
 ; 
 ; RS: We had a JC Penney?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, you did.
 ; 
 ; CV: It was a big one.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, upstairs and downstairs. Really nice.
 ; Helen remembers the different businesses that were in Bristow when she was younger. She remembers the JCPenney and it being really nice and having two stories. Helen also remembers the Strong's shoe store, the dress shop that Mrs. Stanford owned and Montgomery Ward. JCPenney's ; Harvat's Jewelry ; Silver's Jewelry ; Montgomery Ward ; Oklahoma Tire and Supply ; Walmart Businesses 0 969 Clothes RS: So, as far as growing up and as a teenager, do you remember getting to shop for clothes? Did you family make your clothes?
 ; 
 ; HV: You really want me to tell you this?
 ; 
 ; RS: I really want you to tell me. I really do!
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so we were in the country. And, so, my dad would buy feed sacks that were the same. And then my mom would make me clothes out of those feed sacks.
 ; Helen remembers her mom being a great seamstress and sewing her clothes out of feed sacks. She did own jeans and t-shirts but says her dresses were made out of feed sacks. She started buying more of her clothes when she started high school. Clothing ; feed sacks ; seamstress ; high school Clothing 0 1077 Automobiles RS: That’s unfortunate. Do you remember your first family car? What kind of car it was?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, we didn’t have a car for a long time. We had a two-ton truck or a pick up.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, always trucks.
 ; Helen's family did not own a car for a long time but always had some sort of truck. Helen learned to drive from her later husband, Jerry when she was sixteen. Her first car was Buick. Car ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Buick automobile Automobiles 0 1182 Entertainment RS: Okay. What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV, and if you did, 
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, we didn’t have TV.
 ; 
 ; RS: You didn’t even have a TV.
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, until we got electricity. And then in the fourteen, of course, we had Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. And we went to my grandmas, Grandma Johnston’s, and that’s where, I think it was on Tuesday nights, and that’s where all the cousins by the dozens and everybody came.
 ; Helen's family obviously did not have television until after they got electricity. Helen loved watching Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. She would go to her grandmother's house on Tuesday nights and watch it with her cousins. Television ; Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour Entertainment 0 1226 Pivotal Historical Moments RS: Well, I used to watch a lot of old stuff when I was a kid. Do you recall, I know that it took a while to get electric and all that, but do you recall any pivotal events in history that you saw on TV?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, the most outstanding thing that I saw was the day that John F. Kennedy got murdered. 
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you recall actually seeing, watching about that.
 ; 
 ; HV: We were at my aunt’s and seen that on TV.
 ; Helen remembers seeing John F. Kennedy get shot and seeing it broadcast on television. She felt terrible, she loved Kennedy and thought he was a great president. Television ; John F. Kennedy historical moments 0 1277 Music RS: Right, okay. Did you enjoy listening to music? 
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah, country!
 ; 
 ; RS: So, like who were some of your favorite artists?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, Ernest Tubb. I can’t think of them right now. All, whoever sang great songs at the Grand Ol’ Opry.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Minnie Pearl.
 ; Helen loved listening to country music. Her favorites were Ernest Tubb and Minnie Pearl. Ernest Tubb ; Grand Ol' Opry ; Minnie Pearl Music 0 1291 Medical Care RS: Oh, yeah. Okay. What was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah. Dr. Walter Kale (ph). And he was great. Delivered all my kids. Made house calls. Perfect doctor.
 ; 
 ; RS: Those were the days, huh?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen's doctor was Dr. Walter Kale. He delivered all of her children and even made house calls. She had all of the normal illnesses as a child-mumps, chicken pox and the measles. Doctor ; Dr. Walter Kale ; epidemic ; Mumps ; Chicken pox ; Measles Medical care 0 1359 Holidays RS: You didn’t. Okay. So, tell me what celebrating holidays was like in your family. Was it a big deal?
 ; 
 ; HV: It was a big deal.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so can you tell me about a typical Christmas growing up whenever you were a kid?
 ; 
 ; HV: We usually went to my Grandma Johnston’s and my mom picked up pecans to sell so that we could have Christmas.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, everyone got gifts?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, we got gifts from my mom and dad, but I mean, my Grandma Johnston was able to give everybody, might be a pair of panties or not very much, but we all got a present.
 ; Helen says Christmas was a big deal in her family growing up. Her mother would pick up pecans so that they could afford gifts. They would spend Christmas at her Grandma Johnston's house. They always had a large gathering with a big meal. Helen also celebrated Easter as a child with an Easter egg hunt. Holidays ; Christmas ; Fourth of July ; Easter ; Halloween Holidays 0 1447 Career Dreams RS: And it was mainly Christmas was your big exciting holiday of the year. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh heck, probably a cowboy.
 ; Helen says she probably dreamed of being a cowboy when she grew up. Christmas ; Cowboy Career 0 1456 Jobs RS: A cowboy! With your six-shooter! Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the different jobs you’ve had during your life. Tell me
 ; 
 ; HV: The first thing I did was I worked at a little grocery store.
 ; 
 ; RS: And this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]?
 ; Helen's first job was working at a little grocery store in Sapulpa. She then got a job at Bartlett-Collins. Later, after she had her children, Helen worked in the office at the sale barn in Okmulgee. Helen ended up working at the sale barn in Bristow after her father purchased it. Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Frances Carpenter ; Bartlett-Collins ; Sammy Dean Varner ; John DeWayne Varner ; Jeffrey Joe Varner Job 0 1518 Stock Yards RS: Okay. And then you helped at the stock yards in Okmulgee [Oklahoma].
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, I ran the office.
 ; 
 ; RS: You ran the office. Okay, and then, I know you told me after this situation with your dad “popping off” and sold the Okmulgee Stock Yards, that he purchased the Mid-America at Bristow.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen's father purchased Mid America Stock Yards in 1969 and had the first sale in 1970. Helen's father expanded it over the years and had their largest sale in the 70's with over 3,000 head of cattle. Stock Yards ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Okmulgee Stock Yards ; Mid-America Stock Yards ; Bristow (Okla.) stock yards 0 1654 Small Businessman of the Year HV: So, my dad was made Small Businessman of the Year in 1973.
 ; 
 ; RS: 1973. I knew you had mentioned that but I didn’t have the date.
 ; 
 ; HV: And, actually, Tracey Kelly was the one that
 ; 
 ; RS: And that was in Oklahoma, right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Small Businessman of the Year for Oklahoma in 1973. Well, what an honor.
 ; Helen's father was made the Small Businessman of the Year in 1973. Tracey Kelly gave the award. Small Businessman of the Year ; Tracey Kelly ; Oklahoma Small Businessman of the Year 0 1687 British Broadcasting Company HV: And then in 1975, the British Broadcasting Company done a story on Tom Paxton. Do you know who Tom Paxton was?
 ; 
 ; RS: I don’t.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, he was a singer that sang, he was so famous in England. And his mother was still living here. And they came and they done a
 ; 
 ; RS: By here, you mean in the United States or in Bristow?
 ; 
 ; HV: Right here in Bristow.
 ; The British Broadcasting Company did a story on Tom Paxton in 1975. He was a singer that was famous in England. The Broadcasting Company ended up in Bristow and filmed a lot of Helen and her family. British Broadcasting Company ; Tom Paxton ; United States ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Lois McMillan ; Harry McMillan ; Bill Shattuck ; Bristow Library ; Tulsa (Okla.) British Broadcasting Company 0 1844 A Typical Day at the Stockyards RS: As far as a normal day at the stockyards, what did that look like for you? Like, what were your responsibilities working there?
 ; 
 ; HV: Basically, we had horse sales on Monday, Monday nights. You were there early. We helped cook. Tuesdays you did the banking. Wednesday and Thursday, not much. Fridays we had lunch. Saturdays I was always there at 6 o’clock in the morning. We didn’t miss work. Nobody missed work.
 ; Helen reminisces on what a typical day was like at the sale barn. She said they always had the horse sales on Mondays. Tuesdays they did the baking. Saturdays were always busy, and she arrived at 6 o'clock in the morning. Helen says you always showed up to work and sick days weren't an option. Stockyards Stockyards 0 1935 Memories at the Stockyards RS: Or just get in the truck! So, and this is probably a loaded question, because I know you were there a long time, can you remember any particular funny stories or anything that happened at the stock yards that you would want to share?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, one night, at a horse sale, we were having the sale as usual, and the sale had to be stopped. Why was the sale stopped? Because Jerry had to go out in the back and separate his two young men, John and Jeff.
 ; Helen recalls some funny memories at the sale barn. One time her husband, Jerry had to stop a sale so he could stop a fight between two young men. There were also run-ins with skunks at the sale on more than one occasion. Stockyards ; Mort Durbin ; Jerry Dean Varner Stockyards ; Memories 0 2100 Book RS: I, also, understand that you and Jerry wrote a book together.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, this is the Cowtales & ; Recipes. We wrote it on Sunday mornings, and we argued probably most of the day whether his words or my words were the best.
 ; Helen and her husband wrote a book together. It is called Cowtales & ; Recipes. They wrote them every Sunday morning and eventually had them compiled into a book. Jerry Dean Varner ; Skye Varner McNeil ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Cowtales & ; Recipes Book 0 2162 KREK HV: Oh, and he was on the radio with them every Sunday. Or maybe it was Mondays.
 ; 
 ; CV: No, I think it was Sunday at KREK.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, he was on KREK, and also, they ran them in the newspaper. But I think we had to pay to get them in the newspaper.
 ; Helen's husband was on the radio telling stories from their book. It would play on Sunday mornings on KREK. Their stories also ran in the newspaper. Radio ; KREK ; Newspaper ; Historical Society ; Stockyards ; Todd Hiett ; Corporation Commissioner ; Speaker of the House ; Skye Varner McNeil ; Bristow (Okla.) KREK ; Radio 0 2241 Halloween Parties HV: Oh, yeah! And we had great Halloween parties.
 ; 
 ; RS: See, I asked you about Halloween!
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, this was here.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, let’s hear about it.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so we had, I don’t know how we became like the center of whatever, because we were just plain old country people. But we had, EVERYBODY came. You know, we had the McMillians. We had the Kellys. We had all the people from downtown that had businesses.
 ; Helen and her family had very large Halloween parties for several years. They would invite many different families from the community like the Kellys, the McMillians and the Mitchells. They had dances and spook houses, and everyone dressed up. Halloween ; McMillian ; Kelly ; Mitchell ; Jeffery Joe Varner Halloween 0 2319 Water Tank HV: I guess it changed or we just got older or something. But it was a, it was a great place for everybody to come and everybody did! Didn’t matter who you were or what you did. Oh! And one time, so we all, on your birthday, you got dumped in the water tank.
 ; 
 ; CV: You didn’t have a choice. You just went.
 ; 
 ; RS: You didn’t fight it?
 ; 
 ; CV: Well, you could fight, but it didn’t matter.
 ; 
 ; RS: It didn’t matter.
 ; Helen said that if you were at the sale barn and it was your birthday that you would get dunked in the water tank. She said even if it was January and cold that they would break the ice for someone to get dunked. Birthday ; Water Tank ; Lavon Lane Water Tank 0 2396 Selling the Sale Barn RS: Oh, boy! I’d be glad that my birthday was in the summer then! So, you had the sale barn for 51 years?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Fifty-one years. And what made you decide to finally to sell?
 ; 
 ; HV: My kids were ready.
 ; The Sale Barn was in Helen's family for 51 years. Helen said her kids were ready to let it go. Helen does still bake the cakes though. Sale Barn ; Baking ; Cooking Sale Barn 0 2423 Benny Chapman HV: Another funny story. You know Dr. Chapman. Did you know Benny Chapman?
 ; 
 ; RS: I did not.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so that was their youngest son, and he worked at the sale barn. So, one morning, Dr. Chapman, so it goes, went out to get his shoes, a pair of shoes, out of the garage, and he didn’t have just a pair of shoes, but almost all of his shoes were in the garage with cow manure on them.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, no!
 ; 
 ; HV: Benny had worn a different pair all the time, and was Dr. Chapman mad!
 ; Dr. Chapman's son, Benny worked at the sale barn. Apparently, one morning Dr. Chapman went out to the garage to get a pair of shoes and almost all of them were covered in cow manure. Benny had been wearing his dad's shoes to work at the sale barn. Dr. Chapman ; Benny Chapman ; Sale Barn Benny Chapman 0 2472 Husband, Jerry Varner RS: Oh, my goodness! Let’s talk about Jerry [Jerry Dean Varner 10/30/1936-1/24/2017]. When and where did you first meet him?
 ; 
 ; HV: We met at Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. He was there to rope and I was there to run barrels. 
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you didn’t go to school together?
 ; 
 ; HV: No, he went to Pretty Water.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Then, they went to California. Yeah, then we were back in school together, but we hadn’t met yet.
 ; Helen met her husband while attending a roping in Sapulpa. He was there to rope, and she was there for the barrel racing. She thought he was the cutest thing alive on a horse and made the first move by offering to buy him a soda. Jerry Dean Varner ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Pretty Water School ; California Husband 0 2556 Marriage RS: That’s good! Can you tell us about your engagement? Did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period?
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t think we really got engaged.
 ; 
 ; RS: You just got married.
 ; 
 ; HV: We just eventually, we dated, he was the only one I ever dated.
 ; Helen said Jerry was the only man she ever dated. They dated for a couple years before they got married. They were married when they were seniors in high school. High school ; Marriage Marriage 0 2611 Wedding RS: Where did you get married at?
 ; 
 ; HV: In my mom and dad’s house.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, in Sapulpa? Okay. Can you tell us anything about your wedding, what your wedding was like?
 ; 
 ; HV: It was just very simple. I wore a suit. Jerry’s, my grandparents were there. Jerry’s grandparents were there. Jerry’s mom and dad, of course. Jerry’s boss, who was Johnny somebody-or-other, was his best man. And my Aunt Lila (ph) was my maid of honor.
 ; Helen and Jerry had their wedding at her parents' home. It was very simple. She wore a suit, and they had a few close family members in attendance. Wedding ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Jerry Dean Varner Wedding 0 2648 Early Married Life RS: Oh, okay. What were your, especially since you were young, what were your early years of marriage like?
 ; 
 ; HV: Not always good.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, expand on that. What do you mean?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, one time, okay, so, we were in a little house, and Jerry, for some reason, got mad at his aftershave, or this squirt stuff, this soap. And, so, he squirts it all in the bathtub, and I ain’t gonna clean it out. And he isn’t either. I think it stayed that way for about three or four days. We finally had to break up and take a bath.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you were both stubborn, huh? 
 ; 
 ; HV: We were both stubborn, yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how old were you when you, so how long were you married before you had kids?
 ; 
 ; HV: One year.
 ; 
 ; RS: One year.
 ; 
 ; HV: One year and one week.
 ; Helen says the early years of marriage were not always good. She admits that they were both stubborn and that could make things difficult. They were married for a year before the birth of their first child. Marriage ; Jerry Dean Varner Marriage 0 2701 Becoming a Mother RS: So, what was it like for you as a young mother? What were some of your challenges?
 ; 
 ; HV: I really didn’t have any because I had lots of help. My mom was great help. Jerry’s mom, you know, when I went to work, with Sammy, momma kept him.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you had a very supportive family?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh yeah, always.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, that always helps.
 ; 
 ; HV: On both sides.
 ; Helen had a very supportive family to help raise her children. Her mother and her mother-in-law helped with the children. Jerry Dean Varner ; Sammy Dean Varner Mother 0 2719 Financial Struggles RS: So, in the early days was it like financially a struggle?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were pretty broke.
 ; 
 ; RS: Paycheck to paycheck?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, yeah.
 ; 
 ; CV: Now when did Jerry go to, was it the navy, army?
 ; 
 ; HV: Army.
 ; 
 ; CV: Army.
 ; 
 ; HV: When Sammy was about two.
 ; Helen says the early days of their marriage were definitely a struggle financially. Her and Jerry basically made it paycheck to paycheck. Jerry joined the army when their son, Sammy was about two. Sammy Dean Varner ; army ; navy ; Jerry Dean Varner Financial Struggles 0 2747 Children RS: Okay, well, let’s talk about your kids since you mentioned, tell me how many kids you have and what their full names are.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay. Sammy Dean Varner [1/13/1956-5/6/2020] and he was born in ’56.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, I have January 13, 1956. Is that right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; Helen and her husband had three sons. Their names are Sammy, Johnny and Jeffery. Helen thought her middle son would be a girl and had all sorts of girly clothing ready for him. Helen recalls some funny memories of raising a houseful of boys. Sammy Dean Varner ; Johnny DeWayne Varner ; Jeffery Joe Varner Children 0 3038 Grandchildren RS: Good boys. Hard working boys. So, how many grandchildren do you have?
 ; 
 ; HV: Seven.
 ; 
 ; RS: Seven grandchildren. Do you want to name all of them?
 ; 
 ; HV: Sure.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Pokey. His name is Sloan. Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Moo [Melynadee], Rayne.
 ; Helen has seven grandchildren. Their names are Sloan, Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Melynadee and Rayne. Grandchildren Grandchildren 0 3058 Great-Grandchildren RS: Okay, and then how many great-grandkids do you have?
 ; 
 ; HV: Fourteen.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness. That’s a lot.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: And you feed everybody, don’t you?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: That just blows my mind. But I think that’s why you’re a spry lady. You stay busy all the time, don’t you?
 ; Helen has fourteen great-grandchildren. They are all close and Helen still enjoys cooking for her whole family. Great-Grandchildren Great-Grandchildren 0 3074 Christmas Parties HV: Well, I used to. If it wasn’t for my girls, I wouldn’t. I have mentioned our parties. We had Christmas parties for my whole family. Not only did it include my family, my cousins, it took Melody’s family, her cousins, her kids, Cheryl’s mother and dad, friends, like the Beaches. Used to be they were friends for a long time, of course, they’ve passed away. But anyhow, so we’d have it out at the VFW.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how many people are we talking, probably, maybe?
 ; 
 ; HV: Maybe 150?
 ; 
 ; CV: 150 at least.
 ; Helen and her family threw large Christmas parties. They would have about 150 guests and hold it at the VFW building. Children 12 and under would receive gifts. Joe Sam Vassar was their Santa every year. Christmas ; Beach ; Santa Clause ; Joe Sam Vassar Parties 0 3178 Important Inventions RS: Okay. Well, I’ve still got a few more questions, so, and these might make you think a little bit so. So, be ready. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; HV: Invention? Well, it sure as hell wouldn’t be computers.
 ; 
 ; RS: I didn’t say, I didn’t say your favorite. The most important.
 ; 
 ; HV: Electricity.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, I mean, for you, I bet that was the best thing to have.
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh! It was!
 ; Helen says the most important invention in her lifetime was definitely electricity. She does not like how computers have become such a regular part of daily life. Invention ; Electricity ; Computers Inventions 0 3217 How Things Have Changed in the World RS: Okay. How do you feel the world is different now than whenever you were young, like a kid?
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t think people are respectful anymore. I don’t like attitudes with the kids at school. Are you wanting the negative crap that I’m going to say.
 ; Helen feels like people aren't as respectful as they used to be. She does not like the attitudes that children at school have nowadays. Helen feels like we need to get back to basic family togetherness. World ; Respect ; Family World 0 3312 Nation's Biggest Problem RS: Yeah. So, along that line, what do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem and how do you think that can be solved?
 ; 
 ; HV: I think there’s a lot of corruption. I think that we spend, I think our senators, representatives and all those people have been spending way too much time making bills. I think they ought to go up there and whatever problems there are, solve a few and go home and go back to work and do something else and not just make a total living off of being a representative. And I’m talking about, not only state but nationwide. I think that we’ve got a whole bunch of people, especially in Washington that have made boo-koos of money, that they’re rich. How did you get rich on $50,000 a year or sixty or seventy-five? Ain’t no way, honey! So, you know, I’m pretty plain spoken, but that’s the way I feel.
 ; 
 ; RS: That’s why we appreciate you.
 ; 
 ; HV: That’s the way I feel.
 ; Helen feels like the government spends too much money. She thinks there is a lot of corruption. She feels like representatives should not expect to make a living off of that but should have other jobs besides government. Nation ; Corruption ; Representatives Problem ; Nation 0 3377 Historic Events RS: I completely respect your opinion. How have historic events affected you? Say, for example, thinking back to, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, Covid, maybe any natural disasters. Can you think of any particular historic event that maybe really affected your life?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, recently, of course, it was Covid. And I think that is the most disrupted, stupid thing that history has put us through. I don’t believe it. I know there was Covid out there, but I think that a lot of it had to do with the way they were treated. And I think you can’t lay on your back with Covid and everything that you seen, the patients were there, they were on their back.
 ; Helen recalls how Covid affected her life. It made business at the sale barn rough, having to make sure people kept their distance. It also affected her son in his death. He had heart problems and died alone in the hospital because of the restrictions. She also talks about John F. Kennedy's murder and wondering if there was more to it. Helen also talks about Donald Trump being shot recently and how that will be a pivotal point in America's history. Historic Events ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; September 11 ; Covid ; Sale Barn ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Sammy Dean Varner ; John F. Kennedy ; Donald J. Trump Historic Events 0 3565 Wisdom RS: Okay, so is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; HV: Love your family. 
 ; 
 ; RS: That simple. Love your family. Okay, I like that.
 ; Helen ends the interview with some words of wisdom. She says to love your family. Helen believes families should be close-knit and stay together. Wisdom ; Family Wisdom 0 MP3 Helen Marie shares about her young life growing up in the country, her beloved family and her 51-year history with the Mid-America Stockyards. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 18, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Helen Marie Varner and her daughter-in-law, Cheryl Varner, at the Bristow Library Annex. She’s going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? HV: Helen Marie Varner. RS: And do I have permission to record this interview? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? HV: Yes, in Sapulpa, Oklahoma, of course, twenty-five miles from here. RS: Okay, and what’s your date of birth? HV: July 3, 1937. RS: So, you just had a birthday then. HV: I did. I’m 87. RS: I have to say that whenever I learned that, and you gave me your birthdate when we had our phone interview, I thought you gave me the date wrong. I thought, there’s no way she can be 87 years old! HV: I am! RS: So, I think you are doing good! HV: Thank you. RS: Can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parents’ full names? HV: My dad’s name was Gilbert Johnston [Gilbert Rossie “Gib” Johnston 10/8/1913-10/30/1982] and mother’s name was Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston [Helen Lucille “Sassy” Bristol Johnston 8/8/1920-8/27/2007]. RS: Okay, and I understand that did your dad go by Gib? HV: Gib, yeah. RS: I have his date of birth as 10/8/1913? HV: That’s right. RS: Okay. And then your mom, she went by Sassy? HV: Uh-huh. RS: Okay. And I have her birthdate as 8/8/1920? HV: Yes, that’s right. RS: Okay. And then do you have any siblings? HV: Yes. My brother, Sam Everett Johnston, and he’s in Sapulpa at the Farmer’s Feed Store. RS: Okay, okay. HV: And he’s been there about thirty years. Since 1980, in the 1980’s. RS: So, you just have one sibling? HV: One brother. RS: Okay. What type of work did your parents do? HV: My dad was road foreman, a road supervisor, first for, well, he mowed the highway with a team of horses. RS: Oh, my gosh. HV: Then he went to work for Buster Hudgins (ph), who was the county commissioner for Creek County, and then he went to work for Mr. Barnhart (ph) who was also a county commissioner. So, he was the road boss for two different people. And then he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee [Oklahoma] in 1964. RS: And how long did he have the sale barn in Okmulgee? HV: He sold it in December of ’69. RS: Okay. And did your mom work outside the home? HV: No, she didn’t. But now, she ran the café both at Okmulgee and here in Bristow. RS: Okay. Growing up, did you have family that lived nearby you? HV: Oh, yeah. Both grandparents, my aunts and uncles. It’s always been very close. RS: Very close. So, grandparents on both sides? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, and aunts and uncles. Has your family, well, obviously, you started off in Sapulpa, so how long has your family been in the Bristow area? HV: We moved here in 1970. RS: 1970. HV: Except for Sam and Kay. They still live in Sapulpa. RS: Okay, so tell me why they moved here. HV: My dad popped off and sold the sale barn at Okmulgee. RS: So, he popped off? Explain that further that he popped off. HV: He popped off. Somebody said what will you take for it? And my dad opened his mouth and said it, and he said sold. RS: And they took him up on it? HV: You don’t back out of your word. No matter how bad you want to. RS: Right, right. So, then from there, he was like, I need another sale barn? HV: Yes. Yeah. RS: And he found Bristow? HV: And he found Bristow. It had been, I was trying to think the other day. I don’t know if Doyle Matthews was involved, Mr. Foster and Leon Devine. And I really don’t remember who actually owned it at the time that dad bought it. RS: So, you were how old around this time? HV: Whatever. RS: None of us are good at math. HV: Let’s see, I think, you caught me off guard. I think I was 27 when I went to work at CV: How old were you at the glass plant? That was before, wasn’t it? HV: Yeah, I was 19 when I went to work there at Barlett-Collins. RS: So, you were a teenager, then, when your dad HV: Well, no, I was married with three kids by the time dad bought it. RS: Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, all right. So, let’s talk about your early childhood and your home life. We’re going to dig real deep now. HV: Okay. RS: Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood or favorite games that you played? HV: Well, I was like a tomboy, so we had little holsters and guns and we played cowboys and Indians. RS: Oh! That’s funny! HV: And rode horses. And I had dolls. I had one friend that we played dolls with. RS: Did you have chores that you were expected to do. HV: Basically, we had to help milk cows if he had a cow to milk. My dad also dealt in livestock. So, if you had some goats to feed, you fed the goats. Whatever we were told that day. RS: So, basically, you just had to help around your farm doing whatever needed to be done. HV: Yeah. RS: But you did have chores. HV: Yeah. RS: You did have stuff you had to do every day. HV: We had draw water from the well. RS: Oh gosh! HV: Drank water out of a pail with a dipper. Had a bathtub in the kitchen and Sam took the bath first and then me and then momma and then dad. RS: Oh, my goodness! HV: Same water. RS: Oh, my goodness! CV: Can you imagine?! RS: NO! I can’t imagine! So, growing up, so this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma] whenever you were this age. So, did you have friends that would come over and play or were you too busy with your chores and working around HV: No, no, my dad always had people there, a lot of times for supper. Or you had hard hands that were there my mom fed at noon. So, yeah, we had friends that came over. While they would play pitch or whatever, we would play outside, just like I said cops and robbers or that kind of stuff. RS: Okay. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? HV: Barrel racing. RS: So, you were a barrel racer? HV: Not the best, but I was one because my dad, if you had a good horse, and somebody wanted to buy it, he sold it. So, I was put on a lot of different horses, a lot of different times. RS: So, how long would you say you barrel raced? HV: Oh, I was probably 15 until, no, I would have been younger than that. Twelve to eighteen. RS: All right. Did you collect anything as a child? HV: No. RS: You were always outside playing, weren’t you? So, let’s talk about your school life. Where did you first attend school? HV: Okay, Lonestar School, two-room, outside toilet. We had one through, let’s see, one through four and then five through eight. RS: Okay, and then from there where did you go? HV: Sapulpa High. RS: To Sapulpa High School. Okay. So, did you, you graduated from Sapulpa, right? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, all right. Did you have any influential teachers that you can recall that might have made an impact on you during that time? HV: No, not in high school. Mr. and Mrs. Sykes (ph) were teachers at Lonestar, and I’d say they were strict, kind, honest and people looked up to them. RS: And, so, what did they teach? What classes did they teach you? HV: The whole thing. RS: Oh, okay. So, they just kind of did it all. HV: Yeah, the lady teacher taught the smaller classes. And then Mr. Sykes (ph) taught the older kids. RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember how you got to school as a youngster? HV: Mom and daddy drove us. A time or two we rode a horse but not often, and quite a few times we’d have to walk home from school. RS: Okay, and how far of a walk was that? HV: Probably two and a half miles. RS: Oh, my goodness. You know kids nowadays would be like what in the world?! So, like, in high school, were you a member of any clubs or organizations? HV: No. RS: Busy on the farm, I’m guessing? HV: Probably, not really, but just, basically, didn’t really fit in, because I was the country girl. So, I really didn’t RS: Weren’t involved as much? HV: Hmm-mmm. In nothing. RS: So, did you enjoy school or? HV: Oh, well, I always made good grades in school. RS: Okay, but you just, would you have rather HV: But not outside, no outside activities at all. RS: Okay, all right. Did you have a favorite subject? HV: Math. RS: Math?! Really? Okay. That’s interesting. HV: Fit right in. RS: That was my least favorite subject. CV: Mine, too. And then we had the sale barn. RS: Yeah, exactly! So, I know you kind of mentioned your house. Can you tell me about the house that you grew up in? Like what it was like. HV: Well, it was just a four-room house and we had a wood stove, but we also had one gas stove, and we had heavy blankets, and momma used to heat bricks to put at our feet in the winter time. RS: Wow! HV: No water. I’ve already told you we had water out of the buckets. RS: So, how long did it take before you had inside plumbing? HV: Fourteen. RS: You were fourteen?! HV: Mmm-hmm. RS: Oh, my goodness. I bet that was like the greatest day ever! HV: Heaven! RS: So, did they have to, so I guess you had an outhouse? HV: Oh, yeah, a two-holer. RS: A two-holer? HV: Have you ever heard of a two-holer? RS: I have not heard of a two-holer. HV: Well, it was a two-holer. RS: We’ll let everybody figure out what that means. Oh, that’s funny! So, then I guess at that time, did they, once you got indoor plumbing, did they build a bathroom in your house? HV: Well, we actually moved into a different house. RS: Oh, okay. HV: Because the house that we had lived in was a rental. And then my mom and dad bought the house, and then put the bathroom in. RS: Okay, so did you have your own room? HV: Yes. RS: You did? Okay. And where did you spend most of your time? HV: Outside. RS: You were mainly out, but that’s the general consensus of probably your generation is we were always outside. HV: Yeah. RS: Okay, so what were mealtimes like in your family? Did you get together every night and sit down to eat dinner? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, so, was your mom a fabulous cook? HV: Oh, she was a great cook. RS: Is that where, I mean, obviously, we all know that you’re a heck of a cook, too. Is that where you HV: Yeah, my mom, and eventually, Jerry’s mom. She was a great cook, too. RS: Did they, did you HV: And my grandmas. RS: Your grandmas. HV: Yeah, both of them. RS: Were you interested when you were young in cooking? Or did they kind of drag you in there and teach you? HV: Oh, I don’t think it was any of a matter of, you were in there and you did whatever mother said. And you did the dishes like she said, so, wasn’t a matter of whether you wanted to do it or not. RS: But on the cooking side of it, do you think that’s where, did you find interest in cooking as a young person or did it take until you got older? I mean, obviously, I know you had to help when you were young, but HV: I don’t really remember, but I think I probably just always enjoyed it. RS: Always enjoyed cooking. Okay. Do you remember having a favorite meal or a favorite recipe? HV: Roast beef. RS: Roast beef, really? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: Yeah, that’s what we liked. RS: And do you cook that same roast beef? HV: Still do. RS: Still do. HV: Day before yesterday. CV: Uh-huh! RS: Okay, well, thinking about, okay, so when did you, do you remember how old you were when you moved to Bristow. HV: I don’t remember how old I was but RS: Roughly, so were you HV: I was married with three kids RS: Okay, so you were married with HV: Well, Sam and Jeff was in the first grade. RS: Okay, so, thinking back to town life around Bristow, do have memories of favorite community activities like Western Heritage Days, county fairs, day camps, stuff like that? Do you have any memories of that? Even if it’s with your kids. HV: Of course, the kids got into sports immediately. But at the sale barn, we had Ben Camp, T. Reid McCollough’s boys, all these kids worked for us starting out. And, so, there was always people around and all of that was fun. And you got involved with the parents in that way. RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember some of the biggest and/or most popular businesses around town? HV: JC Penneys was in the old Root’s building. RS: We had a JC Penney? HV: Oh, you did. CV: It was a big one. HV: Yeah, upstairs and downstairs. Really nice. RS: It was in which building? HV: The Root’s building. RS: I don’t know why I don’t know that. HV: The Root’s building. RS: I should have known that. HV: And Strong’s had a shoe store. Then we had Mrs. Stanford who had the dress shop, and she had nice things, too. CV: And Harvat’s Jewelry. HV: Oh, Harvat’s! Oh, yeah. And they were, and then we had Silver’s Jewelry. We had Anthony’s for a little while. CV: Montgomery Ward. HV: Yeah, we had Montgomery Ward. Oklahoma Tire and Supply. RS: It seems like during my generation everything faded away. There was a lot going on then. HV: Walmart didn’t help. RS: Yeah, it didn’t help anything. Did you have a favorite place to eat out? HV: We didn’t eat out very much. RS: It didn’t sound like you needed to. It sounds like all the cooks were at your house. HV: They probably were. We, basically, ate at home. RS: Always ate at home. HV: Or at the sale barn. RS: So, as far as growing up and as a teenager, do you remember getting to shop for clothes? Did you family make your clothes? HV: You really want me to tell you this? RS: I really want you to tell me. I really do! HV: Okay, so we were in the country. And, so, my dad would buy feed sacks that were the same. And then my mom would make me clothes out of those feed sacks. RS: Are you serious? HV: I’m dead serious. RS: That had to have been terribly uncomfortable, though. HV: Oh, it wasn’t uncomfortable. RS: Did she line them with anything? HV: No, but well, you wash it and it was just like fabric. RS: Well, I guess that’s true. HV: They had some nice fabrics back then. RS: Oh, my goodness. HV: And you did that RS: So, how often would you say you got new clothes? HV: Oh, she was buying that doing that all the time. RS: Oh really? HV: Yeah. RS: So, quite a seamstress, then? HV: Yeah, she was. RS: Wow! And how long would you say that went on? To what age did ever get to go and buy clothes at a store? HV: Well, it really started when I started to high school, I think. Well, I had jeans, you know, because I was riding a horse all the time. That kind of stuff. And I’m sure I had shirts. But for a dress or anything like that, it was a feed sack dress. RS: So, how did you feel about that or did you really know any different? HV: I didn’t really know any different until I got in high school. RS: And then did that HV: And then I knew. RS: Did it make you feel different? HV: I was pretty, I guess I was kind of disgusted with, I’d never been around, everybody was on the same level. And I’d never been around snotty little girls. RS: Right. Because where you came from everyone was HV: Oh yeah, you didn’t think about stuff like that. RS: That’s unfortunate. Do you remember your first family car? What kind of car it was? HV: Oh, we didn’t have a car for a long time. We had a two-ton truck or a pick up. RS: So, always trucks. HV: I think until, gosh I don’t remember. It would have been while we were in Okmulgee. RS: Okay, and who usually took you places? HV: Mom and dad. RS: Both of them. HV: Well, one or the other. RS: One or the other. So, did you get to take any vacations or anything like that at that time? HV: No, you didn’t. RS: Didn’t get to take vacations, huh? Who taught you how to drive? HV: Jerry. RS: Are you serious? HV: Yeah. RS: So, how old were you when he taught you how to drive? HV: Sixteen. RS: Okay, well that’s not as bad. Okay. So, you knew him young then. HV: Sixteen. RS: You knew him when…okay. And do you remember what your first car was? HV: Uh, yeah, Jerry’s dad gave it to us. It was an old Buick that I thought was the ugliest thing in the world! I don’t remember what model it was. RS: Was it big? HV: No, it was little. RS: Oh, it was little! HV: And ugly! RS: Okay. What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV, and if you did, HV: Well, we didn’t have TV. RS: You didn’t even have a TV. HV: Well, until we got electricity. And then in the fourteen, of course, we had Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. And we went to my grandmas, Grandma Johnston’s, and that’s where, I think it was on Tuesday nights, and that’s where all the cousins by the dozens and everybody came. RS: I love it. Tell me again what the show was called. HV: Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. RS: I’ve never heard, I’m pretty familiar with old shows, but I don’t know that one. HV: You’re not that old! RS: Well, I used to watch a lot of old stuff when I was a kid. Do you recall, I know that it took a while to get electric and all that, but do you recall any pivotal events in history that you saw on TV? HV: Well, the most outstanding thing that I saw was the day that John F. Kennedy got murdered. RS: So, you recall actually seeing, watching about that. HV: We were at my aunt’s and seen that on TV. RS: Did you see it live or was it after, broadcast after the fact? HV: I don’t remember. Of course, it was such a constant thing. I don’t remember. I just remember we were there when it came over, well, it came over the broadcast, so evidently it was live. RS: Right. So, do you remember how you felt at the time? HV: Oh, terrible. I loved him. I thought he was a great president. RS: Right, okay. Did you enjoy listening to music? HV: Oh, yeah, country! RS: So, like who were some of your favorite artists? HV: Oh, Ernest Tubb. I can’t think of them right now. All, whoever sang great songs at the Grand Ol’ Opry. RS: Okay. HV: Minnie Pearl. RS: Oh, yeah. Okay. What was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor? HV: Oh, yeah. Dr. Walter Kale (ph). And he was great. Delivered all my kids. Made house calls. Perfect doctor. RS: Those were the days, huh? HV: Yes. RS: Do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything that you experienced growing up or through your lifetime? HV: No, we had the mumps and chicken pox and measles. RS: All the normal. HV: All that stuff. RS: Okay. HV: Yeah, and took our polio shots when they became where you could get them. That was kind of thing you lined up at school and done that. With parents and all. RS: And that’s the one that left the little circle, right, on your arm? Because my mom had one. HV: Yeah. That’s not what that was. RS: That’s not what that was? What was that? HV: That was RS: A different vaccine? CV: Was that the measles? HV: I don’t know. But momma’s was real deep. But mine wasn’t. I can’t remember what it was. RS: Hmm…interesting. Did you attend church growing up? HV: No. RS: You didn’t. Okay. So, tell me what celebrating holidays was like in your family. Was it a big deal? HV: It was a big deal. RS: Okay, so can you tell me about a typical Christmas growing up whenever you were a kid? HV: We usually went to my Grandma Johnston’s and my mom picked up pecans to sell so that we could have Christmas. RS: So, everyone got gifts? HV: Well, we got gifts from my mom and dad, but I mean, my Grandma Johnston was able to give everybody, might be a pair of panties or not very much, but we all got a present. RS: Everyone got a present. Was it a big, did you cook a big meal, I’m guessing? HV: Oh, yeah. My grandmas cooked big meals and everybody got together. And it was a requirement. You didn’t not go. RS: You didn’t not go. Did you celebrate any, were any other holidays a big deal in your family like Fourth of July or Easter or Halloween or anything? HV: Well, at Easter we had Easter egg hunts, but it wasn’t a giant thing with everybody together like over the years, we ended up with lots of people, maybe a hundred people doing all kinds of stuff all the time but, but back when I was young, you couldn’t afford to do that anyway. RS: Right. And it was, so for you for your family HV: Mostly family. RS: And it was mainly Christmas was your big exciting holiday of the year. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? HV: Oh heck, probably a cowboy. RS: A cowboy! With your six-shooter! Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the different jobs you’ve had during your life. Tell me HV: The first thing I did was I worked at a little grocery store. RS: And this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]? HV: Yeah, just about two miles from me. And we had known the man that owned it for all my life. And then, my friend, Frances Carpenter, worked at Bartlett-Collins, so she suggested I go out there, and I got a job. So, I did that for when I had Sammy [Sammy Dean Varner 1/13/1956-5/6/2020]. Got pregnant with John [John DeWayne Varner 3/5/1960], had to quit at that time, six months, you could only work until six months. Had him. Went back to work. And then got pregnant with Jeff [Jeffery Joe Varner 10/9/1962], and by that time, after that, I didn’t go back to work until, until we moved to Okmulgee [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. And then you helped at the stock yards in Okmulgee [Oklahoma]. HV: Yeah, I ran the office. RS: You ran the office. Okay, and then, I know you told me after this situation with your dad “popping off” and sold the Okmulgee Stock Yards, that he purchased the Mid-America at Bristow. HV: Yes. RS: And you told me 1969 and then you had the first sale in February of ’70? HV: That’s right. RS: And then, so, tell me about the stock yards. HV: Okay, so, it started out, I think we had, it was the worst winter you’ve ever seen. RS: Of course. HV: There was snow everywhere. I heard somewhere there was like twenty welders, and I don’t know, I guess that was right, because we had every welder around here trying to build pens to have our first sale. RS: Because, to understand, when you first bought it, or when your dad first bought it, it wasn’t what it is now. HV: Oh, my gosh, NO! RS: So, a lot of work had to be done. HV: Oh yeah. Forever and ever. RS: Never ending? HV: Never ending. We had only the two front rooms. The two front buildings was all that was there. So, all the pens and the bleachers, everything had to be built, so that what was what we did. RS: So, then you had your first sale in February of ’70. Can you tell me what a typical day was at the sale barn. HV: Well, at the very first, we probably had, well the first sale we had, we had over a thousand head, which we thought was unheard of. And then we had four or five hundred, and then it got to be bigger and bigger. In August 8th of 1970 something, we had the biggest sale we ever had. We had over 3,000 head. The highest market we had ever had in the history, our history. RS: Wow! HV: So, my dad was made Small Businessman of the Year in 1973. RS: 1973. I knew you had mentioned that but I didn’t have the date. HV: And, actually, Tracey Kelly was the one that RS: And that was in Oklahoma, right? HV: Yes. RS: Small Businessman of the Year for Oklahoma in 1973. Well, what an honor. HV: And then in 1975, the British Broadcasting Company done a story on Tom Paxton. Do you know who Tom Paxton was? RS: I don’t. HV: Okay, he was a singer that sang, he was so famous in England. And his mother was still living here. And they came and they done a RS: By here, you mean in the United States or in Bristow? HV: Right here in Bristow. RS: Oh! Okay, okay. HV: But he was a great singer, and for some reason, somehow, we got involved in all this filming. So, they really did a lot of filming of our family. Well, me and Jerry, my Grandma and Grandad Bristol, my Grandma Johnston, the McMillan’s, Lois and Harry. RS: And tell me again what the date, the year of this was? HV: 1975. RS: 1975. So, basically, the story was about him, but it ended up encompassing all of you? HV: All the music with that, yeah. So, we did all this stuff to the music. They had the films there, and they were there on Monday. They had the people riding the horses and all this was great fun. And we had, in fact, we all have, a film of it, but it’s real old. Bill Shattuck went to get this film, and it was at the Bristow Library, and the film was missing. And it’s still missing today. RS: So, there’s no HV: Well, it’s an old RS: Like a reel? CV: Like the old projector type HV: Yeah. RS: So, does this exist? Does anybody have a copy? HV: Yes. RS: Well, that might be something that the historical society would like a copy of, possibly, if there’s a way to do it. HV: There should be a way to do it because we took it over to that place on Sheridan and 71st [Tulsa, Oklahoma] and had it, Jerry had one made for each one of our kids. RS: I’m going to make a note of that because that might be something we would like to have. CV: Do you remember the name of it? HV: It was something, Tom Paxton. Maybe the Tales of the, I really don’t remember the name, Cheryl. RS: As far as a normal day at the stockyards, what did that look like for you? Like, what were your responsibilities working there? HV: Basically, we had horse sales on Monday, Monday nights. You were there early. We helped cook. Tuesdays you did the banking. Wednesday and Thursday, not much. Fridays we had lunch. Saturdays I was always there at 6 o’clock in the morning. We didn’t miss work. Nobody missed work. RS: Not an option. HV: Not an option. You didn’t call in sick. If you were sick enough to die, go ahead and die. CV: You better be dying. RS: I feel like that might be a characteristic that has been lost these days. HV: It has. CV: Not in this family. RS: Well, no, not in this family, but I mean, in general. People don’t have that same work ethic anymore. HV: And, see, I don’t understand that. RS: Yeah, I bet you don’t. HV: My mom and dad, you know, my dad if he told you to get in the truck, you got in the truck. You didn’t go do this or that or RS: Or question it. HV: You got in the truck. RS: Yeah, you just got in the truck. HV: So, I was raised that way, so I don’t understand RS: Any other way than that? HV: A lot of this now. You’re gonna have to go put your head in the corner or I’m going to count to five. Or maybe it’s ten. RS: Or just get in the truck! So, and this is probably a loaded question, because I know you were there a long time, can you remember any particular funny stories or anything that happened at the stock yards that you would want to share? HV: Well, one night, at a horse sale, we were having the sale as usual, and the sale had to be stopped. Why was the sale stopped? Because Jerry had to go out in the back and separate his two young men, John and Jeff. RS: They were fighting? HV: They were fighting! RS: Oh, my goodness! And do we know why they were fighting? HV: I never did know. Too mad to ask. RS: Well, I’m going to hate to see what happened to them once dad broke ‘em up. Oh, my goodness! HV: He just talked to them. In language they understood. RS: Right, right. HV: And let’s see, one time a cow, so my brother was a little short dude, and he was the auctioneer, and a cow jumped up in front of him, and as he, I guess the cow finally got down, and he comes like a telescope and he comes up and looks at the crowd. And it was so funny! I know that’s not funny, gonna be funny there, but it was hilarious. Then one time, we had Mort. Mort was a, Mort Durbin. RS: I hear some, you have some run-ins with skunks. HV: Yeah, that was one of the funnies. RS: Okay, well tell us about that. HV: Okay. Mort [Mort “Mortie” Durbin 9/22/1927-11/14/1985], we had a terrible issue with the skunks. And, so, Mort, one time at almost the end of the sale, as I recall it, and he would get the stuff that you fill pop machine, CO2, and he squirted this skunk out the door and that skunk went off! RS: Oh, my goodness! HV: And there all these people in there, and gagging. We were all, anyhow, that was another story. RS: Yeah, he probably wasn’t high on the list after that, was he? HV: Not for a few days, but he was quite a guy. We liked him. RS: I, also, understand that you and Jerry wrote a book together. HV: Yeah. RS: Can you tell me about that? HV: Yeah, this is the Cowtales & ; amp ; Recipes. We wrote it on Sunday mornings, and we argued probably most of the day whether his words or my words were the best. RS: So, how long did it take to compile this book? HV: Oh, it took a long time. And we tried different ways and never could get anybody, and finally, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] came up with a lady in Chandler [Oklahoma] who is, actually, the one that finally got it done for him. RS: Give me a rough estimate, how many years went into that? HV: Oh, I don’t know. CV: When did you start writing Cowtales? HV: I don’t even know. CV: Because he wrote them every Sunday. HV: Yeah, he wrote every Sunday. RS: And then you just decided to compile them? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: Oh, and he was on the radio with them every Sunday. Or maybe it was Mondays. CV: No, I think it was Sunday at KREK. HV: Yeah, he was on KREK, and also, they ran them in the newspaper. But I think we had to pay to get them in the newspaper. RS: So, this book that you brought, is this something I can take to the historical society for HV: Yes. RS: We would like to preserve that. I think that’s pretty neat. So, before we get off of the stockyards, how long did you guys own and run the stockyards? HV: Just until two years ago. But let me tell you first RS: Okay. HV: I’m going to tell you some stuff. RS: Yeah, no, tell me! HV: So, Todd Hiett, who was our auctioneer, who’s now the Corporation Commissioner, he became a Speaker of the House while he was auctioning. And, then, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] who is my granddaughter, became a representative. But she came back on Saturdays and worked the sale, too. So, those are two of the people that, of course, I’ve got grandkids now that have businesses here, so Bristow has been very good to my family. RS: That’s good. That’s neat. HV: Oh, yeah! And we had great Halloween parties. RS: See, I asked you about Halloween! HV: Well, this was here. RS: Well, let’s hear about it. HV: Okay, so we had, I don’t know how we became like the center of whatever, because we were just plain old country people. But we had, EVERYBODY came. You know, we had the McMillians. We had the Kellys. We had all the people from downtown that had businesses. CV: The Mitchells. HV: The Mitchells. I mean, everybody came. RS: Came to your house? HV: We had one at the house, and then we had some at the sale barn. RS: Okay, so what went on at these? HV: Oh, we had spook houses and everybody dressed up, you know. CV: You had to come in costume HV: Yeah, oh yeah, and everybody did! RS: Well, that sounds like fun. CV: And there was a big dance. There was always a big dance. HV: Yeah. RS: So, how many years did this go on? HV: Oh, we probably done it for four or five years. RS: Well, that sounds like fun! I never got invited. CV: Well, the last one was when me and Jeff was dating. RS: Oh, okay. CV: And that was the last time we had one, and that was in ’82. HV: My dad died in ’82 and then everything kind of RS: Changed? HV: I guess it changed or we just got older or something. But it was a, it was a great place for everybody to come and everybody did! Didn’t matter who you were or what you did. Oh! And one time, so we all, on your birthday, you got dumped in the water tank. CV: You didn’t have a choice. You just went. RS: You didn’t fight it? CV: Well, you could fight, but it didn’t matter. RS: It didn’t matter. HV: Some people, one guy, one time who was just a passer-by, he said that they would dare do that to me. Well, guess what? That dude went in. And, not only that, did you know Lavon Lane? RS: Oh, yeah. HV: She went in! RS: NOOO WAY! HV: Yes, she did! CV: If it was your birthday and you were at the sale barn HV: You went in. CV: It didn’t matter if it was January. RS: Did anybody get a picture of that HV: No. RS: Because I cannot even imagine her being dunked in a tank. HV: And she laughed! RS: Well, good! Oh, that’s funny! HV: Yeah, it was, everybody had fun, and it was all in fun. RS: Yeah. HV: There were a few people that got mad, I guess, but it really didn’t make any difference. RS: It didn’t matter. HV: To the dunkers. RS: That’s funny. CV: Those that had birthdays in January to March, they would even break ice to put you in. RS: Oh, boy! I’d be glad that my birthday was in the summer then! So, you had the sale barn for 51 years? HV: Yes. RS: Fifty-one years. And what made you decide to finally to sell? HV: My kids were ready. RS: Your kids were ready? But you’re still out there, right? HV: Well, I’m still baking the cakes. But I’m not really out there. RS: Okay, but you’re still cooking? HV: I’m still cooking. CV: She cooks lunch for us every day. HV: Another funny story. You know Dr. Chapman. Did you know Benny Chapman? RS: I did not. HV: Okay, so that was their youngest son, and he worked at the sale barn. So, one morning, Dr. Chapman, so it goes, went out to get his shoes, a pair of shoes, out of the garage, and he didn’t have just a pair of shoes, but almost all of his shoes were in the garage with cow manure on them. RS: Oh, no! HV: Benny had worn a different pair all the time, and was Dr. Chapman mad! RS: Because he was trying to go to work, I’m guessing? HV: I’m assuming. RS: But all of his shoes had manure, oh no! HV: Ben had worn numerous. I don’t know how many shoes Dr. Chapman had, but he wore numerous shoes. RS: Oh, my goodness! Let’s talk about Jerry [Jerry Dean Varner 10/30/1936-1/24/2017]. When and where did you first meet him? HV: We met at Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. He was there to rope and I was there to run barrels. RS: So, you didn’t go to school together? HV: No, he went to Pretty Water. RS: Okay. HV: Then, they went to California. Yeah, then we were back in school together, but we hadn’t met yet. RS: Oh, okay. So, in Sapulpa is where you met Jerry. And can you tell me his full name? HV: Jerry Dean Varner. RS: Okay, and I have his birth date as 10/30/1936? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. So, what was your first impression of him when you saw him? HV: I thought he was the cutest thing alive on a horse. RS: So, did you actually meet him at a rodeo or? HV: Yes, well, at a roping. RS: At a roping, okay. HV: He was sitting there with his Uncle John, so I come up and say, can I buy you a pop? RS: So, you made the first move? HV: I believe I did! CV: And stayed that way. RS: That’s good! Can you tell us about your engagement? Did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period? HV: I don’t think we really got engaged. RS: You just got married. HV: We just eventually, we dated, he was the only one I ever dated. RS: Really?! Awe. So, how long did you date before you got married? HV: Well, we were sixteen and so that was, and then we were almost eighteen. RS: When you got married. HV: We were seniors in high school. RS: So, you got married when you were still in school? HV: Mm-hmm. RS: Oh, wow! Okay. What did your parents think about that? Were they okay with it? HV: I don’t think, well, they were probably used to him by then. You know, we were always together. RS: Always together. HV: I don’t think my dad was interested in me getting married. RS: At all or? HV: At all. I don’t think momma cared. RS: Where did you get married at? HV: In my mom and dad’s house. RS: Okay, in Sapulpa? Okay. Can you tell us anything about your wedding, what your wedding was like? HV: It was just very simple. I wore a suit. Jerry’s, my grandparents were there. Jerry’s grandparents were there. Jerry’s mom and dad, of course. Jerry’s boss, who was Johnny somebody-or-other, was his best man. And my Aunt Lila (ph) was my maid of honor. RS: Oh, okay. What were your, especially since you were young, what were your early years of marriage like? HV: Not always good. RS: So, expand on that. What do you mean? HV: Well, one time, okay, so, we were in a little house, and Jerry, for some reason, got mad at his aftershave, or this squirt stuff, this soap. And, so, he squirts it all in the bathtub, and I ain’t gonna clean it out. And he isn’t either. I think it stayed that way for about three or four days. We finally had to break up and take a bath. RS: So, you were both stubborn, huh? HV: We were both stubborn, yeah. RS: So, how old were you when you, so how long were you married before you had kids? HV: One year. RS: One year. HV: One year and one week. RS: So, what was it like for you as a young mother? What were some of your challenges? HV: I really didn’t have any because I had lots of help. My mom was great help. Jerry’s mom, you know, when I went to work, with Sammy, momma kept him. RS: So, you had a very supportive family? HV: Oh yeah, always. RS: Well, that always helps. HV: On both sides. RS: So, in the early days was it like financially a struggle? HV: Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were pretty broke. RS: Paycheck to paycheck? HV: Yeah, yeah. CV: Now when did Jerry go to, was it the navy, army? HV: Army. CV: Army. HV: When Sammy was about two. RS: Okay, well, let’s talk about your kids since you mentioned, tell me how many kids you have and what their full names are. HV: Okay. Sammy Dean Varner [1/13/1956-5/6/2020] and he was born in ’56. RS: Okay, I have January 13, 1956. Is that right? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: He was, my dad LOVED him and spoiled him. Probably the only big falling outs we would have had would have been over Sammy and my dad. He, anyway. His first three words…wanna hear it? RS: What? HV: Damn, hell, shitzes. RS: Say that again. HV: Damn, hell, shitzes. CV: And that was passed down. RS: Oh, my goodness! That’s funny. HV: I don’t know if you’re gonna put all this on there. RS: Oh, it’s all going in there. But, this is the kind of stuff that you family’s going to love to preserve. The funny stories, all of it. The good, bad, you know. That’s what matters. Okay, so, what about your next child? HV: Okay, so then, we had Johnny DeWayne Varner, of course. RS: And I have him as March 5, 1960? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. HV: Okay, so he was the middle child, and really, very active, and not at all like Sammy. He was bouncy off the counters and everywhere. But, he was real kind, sweet and I dressed him like a girl for a while because I thought I was going to have a girl. You know, it was going to be boy, girl. And, so, momma had made all these pretty clothes. My aunt had sewed all these booty things, and the little sweaters, like they used to do. But anyway, it didn’t happen. He was a boy. And he had hair, real pretty hair when he was born. And Kay had Debbie at the same time, and she had no hair. RS: Isn’t that the way? HV: Yeah, so, and then after that, we had Jeff, and Jeff was a rotten little guy. RS: And, so, what’s his full name? HV: Jeffery Joe Varner. RS: And I have his birth date as 10/9/1962? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. So, tell us a about Jeff. HV: Okay, so, Jeff had, when he was little, everything had to match. The little Buster, no I believe it was Buster Browns or something, at that time, we were, I guess momma, momma probably bought most of the clothes for everybody. But he had his little shirt that had to match the pants that had to match the socks. And, he was, he was just always a good kid until he got to be a in high school. RS: Something happens when they turn about seventeen. HV: Yeah, so, one night I was sitting up waiting on him, and I waited and I waited and I waited and I waited. And he finally came in, and I said, son, where were you? And he was over there at that girl’s house, and I said, well, what did her parents say you being over there so long? He said, they weren’t home. RS: Oh, no! CV: That was not me. HV: It wasn’t. RS: Uh oh! HV: Oh, shoot! Anyway. RS: Okay, so maybe I should have asked what were your challenges raising your children when they were teenagers. Not when they were kids. HV: I don’t think we really had, I mean, my mom and dad were strict with us. Jerry, if he told the kids to jump on this table, they would have. And he wasn’t mean. It was just this is what you did. RS: An element of respect. HV: Yeah, I mean, you know, you didn’t challenge. RS: Right. HV: One time John, and I think it was, was it Jeff and Sammy got into it. Jeff said to Sam, Sam was the smallest even though he was the oldest, and Jeff said, well, if you don’t like what I say, just whip my ass. And Sammy said, I would have a long time ago if I could have. CV: Can you imagine three boys? RS: Oh, and that was going to be one of my questions was what were the challenges of raising three boys, but it sounds like you had a few anyway. HV: Well, a few, but they still got along. RS: Good boys. Hard working boys. So, how many grandchildren do you have? HV: Seven. RS: Seven grandchildren. Do you want to name all of them? HV: Sure. RS: Okay. HV: Pokey. His name is Sloan. Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Moo [Melynadee], Rayne. RS: Okay, and then how many great-grandkids do you have? HV: Fourteen. RS: Oh, my goodness. That’s a lot. HV: Yeah. RS: And you feed everybody, don’t you? HV: Yeah. RS: That just blows my mind. But I think that’s why you’re a spry lady. You stay busy all the time, don’t you? HV: Well, I used to. If it wasn’t for my girls, I wouldn’t. I have mentioned our parties. We had Christmas parties for my whole family. Not only did it include my family, my cousins, it took Melody’s family, her cousins, her kids, Cheryl’s mother and dad, friends, like the Beaches. Used to be they were friends for a long time, of course, they’ve passed away. But anyhow, so we’d have it out at the VFW. RS: So, how many people are we talking, probably, maybe? HV: Maybe 150? CV: 150 at least. HV: And we bought presents for anybody 12 and under. And Santa was always there. And it was the same Santa. CV: Every year. HV: It was the same Santa, and of course, now that Santa can’t do this anymore, we had quit. But we had quit during covid anyway. But Joey, at one time, we went somewhere, and somebody was talking about Santa, and Joey said yeah, but that’s not the real Santa. Because our Santa was the real Santa. And it was Joe Sam [Joe Sam Vassar]. RS: That’s awesome! HV: And he did it every year. Every year. RS: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that I have not thought to ask you about that’s on your list? HV: No, I think that’s it. RS: Okay. Well, I’ve still got a few more questions, so, and these might make you think a little bit so. So, be ready. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? HV: Invention? Well, it sure as hell wouldn’t be computers. RS: I didn’t say, I didn’t say your favorite. The most important. HV: Electricity. RS: Well, I mean, for you, I bet that was the best thing to have. HV: Oh! It was! RS: Okay. How do you feel the world is different now than whenever you were young, like a kid? HV: I don’t think people are respectful anymore. I don’t like attitudes with the kids at school. Are you wanting the negative crap that I’m going to say. RS: I want you to be honest what, you know, what your opinion is of how things are different, and maybe, how you would like them to be better. HV: I just think that the family values have really gotten screwed up, and I think that we need to get back to the basic family togetherness. I don’t like drugs and all of that stuff, although, I’ve had that in my family. I don’t think people respect each other enough. RS: So, you, basically, think if we could get back to some of the old-fashioned values that it might correct some of the stuff going on right now? HV: Oh, I’m sure. RS: Yeah. So, along that line, what do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem and how do you think that can be solved? HV: I think there’s a lot of corruption. I think that we spend, I think our senators, representatives and all those people have been spending way too much time making bills. I think they ought to go up there and whatever problems there are, solve a few and go home and go back to work and do something else and not just make a total living off of being a representative. And I’m talking about, not only state but nationwide. I think that we’ve got a whole bunch of people, especially in Washington that have made boo-koos of money, that they’re rich. How did you get rich on $50,000 a year or sixty or seventy-five? Ain’t no way, honey! So, you know, I’m pretty plain spoken, but that’s the way I feel. RS: That’s why we appreciate you. HV: That’s the way I feel. RS: I completely respect your opinion. How have historic events affected you? Say, for example, thinking back to, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, Covid, maybe any natural disasters. Can you think of any particular historic event that maybe really affected your life? HV: Well, recently, of course, it was Covid. And I think that is the most disrupted, stupid thing that history has put us through. I don’t believe it. I know there was Covid out there, but I think that a lot of it had to do with the way they were treated. And I think you can’t lay on your back with Covid and everything that you seen, the patients were there, they were on their back. RS: Did it affect your family personally? HV: It affected our sale barn. RS: Okay. HV: We had to mark it off and people had to stand so far apart. Then that guy can only come in while his cattle were selling, and it was crazy. RS: A nightmare. HV: That was a nightmare. CV: We had to shut the catwalk completely down because people would gather on the catwalk, so we had to just shut that down. It was crazy. RS: So, did you have any family members that had Covid or was sick or passed away from it? HV: Well, Jerry passed away in ’17, but well, Sammy was in the hospital during Covid and we didn’t even get to go see him. And he laid there for three weeks. You think that don’t kill a person. RS: Oh, my goodness. Because he had Covid or just because he was there for another reason. HV: No, he was there. He was there for his heart. RS: Okay. HV: Sammy was a people person, and he died by himself. RS: Awful. HV: That was a bad deal. RS: Yeah, that’s rough. HV: The only other thing was John F. Kennedy’s murder. I thought that was, and I still think that there’s, there’s something there. Just same as I think now what happened last week. There’s something there. RS: And tell us what happened last week. HV: Well, when Trump [Donald J. Trump] got his ear shot. RS: Okay, because I feel like that’s going to be a pivotal, going forward, a pivotal point in our history, too. HV: I think so. With the person, they already knew this guy was up on the roof, and then they said guns down, and they went ahead and shot him. There’s just a whole bunch of RS: Unanswered questions, and I think what’s going to be interesting about this is, since we have your interview on tape of the beginnings of their investigation of it, it will be interesting to see in the future how it ends up playing out. HV: Right. RS: Okay, so is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? HV: Love your family. RS: That simple. Love your family. Okay, I like that. HV: That’s it. RS: And before we close, I just want to ask, too, because I know you’re like the matriarch of the family, and I think as Cheryl said, everyone comes to you for business advice and life advice, I like that you’re as simple as love your family. HV: Thank you. RS: I like it. Is there anything you would like to add that we forgot to talk about or that I failed to ask you about? Cheryl, can you think of anything? CV: Anytime that we all work together, I mean we all work together, and when we go on vacations, we would all go vacation together. We were always together. RS: Together. So, CV: Very close-knit family, very close. RS: Well, and I think that lends to your advice of love your family. Having that strong family unit, support, that’s what we are lacking, I think. HV: And, see, what I don’t understand is, I have a friend, kind of, that isn’t, her kids are not coming to see her like they should. And I don’t know where that break down is. RS: Right. HV: I don’t know what causes, I don’t know what causes that. You know, I don’t know if it’s the mother, or the kids, or what. I don’t understand what makes the kids not go to their mother. RS: Right. HV: But we were raised, see, that way. We were raised to respect and love your mother. RS: Well, I think you can attest to the fact that she’s a strong woman that is the glue of the family. CV: I’ve always told her that if she didn’t like the way me and Melody turned out, it’s her fault, because she had us longer than our parents ever had us. If they don’t like us, it’s because of her example. RS: Oh, gosh! Well, I think that is pretty much it for me today. We appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum and we appreciate you and thank you very much! HV: Thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0060_Helen_Marie_Varner.xml OHP-0060_Helen_Marie_Varner.xml
Dublin Core
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Title
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Helen Marie Varner
Description
An account of the resource
Helen Marie shares about her young life growing up in the country, her beloved family and her 51-year history with the Mid-America Stockyards.
Identifier
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OHP-0060
Date
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2024/07/18
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audio
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/16ab984023610920057bf8bd798ee6f5.jpg
e99986bca5f438e2759fe88dc3dc810d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
David Hill
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml
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5.4 July 12, 2024 OHP-0059 David Hill OHP-0059 01:58:11 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory David Hill Monica Hill Regan Siler 1.0:|1(3)|64(7)|78(17)|102(6)|127(7)|145(10)|167(7)|191(8)|220(7)|267(4)|289(7)|311(7)|332(6)|351(3)|366(5)|395(11)|412(15)|420(13)|451(6)|462(16)|493(8)|501(13)|522(8)|552(4)|574(5)|599(9)|622(8)|658(5)|682(3)|696(9)|730(3)|760(7)|781(3)|819(13)|856(12)|874(17)|911(13)|928(3)|945(5)|960(14)|982(17)|1001(5)|1031(4)|1053(7)|1076(9)|1095(6)|1116(18)|1131(12)|1160(7)|1182(11)|1213(5)|1240(11)|1274(9)|1305(6)|1321(3)|1344(15)|1373(10)|1398(10)|1421(17)|1444(14)|1456(10)|1472(11)|1495(9)|1517(16)|1543(9)|1576(10)|1595(10)|1624(3)|1653(3)|1684(15)|1709(17)|1728(5)|1753(4)|1774(13)|1800(3)|1826(16)|1846(8)|1855(12)|1881(11)|1894(15)|1907(16)|1925(16)|1943(4)|1960(8)|1982(15)|2004(15)|2027(3)|2040(11)|2052(3)|2076(15)|2108(11)|2120(12)|2148(3)|2174(3)|2199(9)|2226(5)|2245(13)|2261(12)|2284(15)|2302(10)|2319(10)|2344(14)|2374(5)|2406(3)|2434(6)|2466(19)|2492(3)|2519(9)|2559(11)|2575(4)|2615(10)|2637(6)|2652(15)|2673(4)|2685(7)|2703(10)|2718(5)|2742(9)|2754(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0059 Hill, David.mp3 Other audio 0 Background RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 12, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Principal Chief David Hill and his wife, Monica Hill, at the Bristow Library Annex. They are going to tell us a little bit about their life and their history living in the Bristow area. Can you each state your full name, please?
 ; 
 ; DH: David Walter Hill.
 ; 
 ; MH: Monica Lynn Hill.
 ; David and Monica talk about their early life. They give their full names and the names of their parents and siblings. They were both born in Oklahoma. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Principal Chief ; David Walter Hill ; Monica Lynn Hill ; Talihina (Okla.) ; Stroud (Okla.) ; George Hill ; JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell ; Connie Lavon Deese Watson Baker ; John Robert Watson ; Jeanette Martin ; Janet Hill ; Sammy Hill ; Solomon Hill ; Lucinda Thomas Life ; Family 0 152 Parents RS: Lucinda Thomas. Okay. So, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; DH: Best I can remember of my dad, I was only 11-1/2 when he passed away. He did kind of like the tree line service, where they cut the tree limbs, trees down, whatever. Then he went to Prescor in Sapulpa, and he was kind of like a maintenance person, I believe.
 ; 
 ; RS: And then your mom, did she just work in the home?
 ; 
 ; DH: More of a seamstress. She used to work at the garment factory here in Bristow. Then she went to Okemah [Oklahoma].
 ; David and Monica discuss their parents and the work they did. David's father worked doing tree line service, and then later as a maintenance person in Sapulpa at Prescor. His mother worked at the garment factory. Monica's father was a quarter horse jockey. Monica and her family were in California part of the year because of her father's job. Prescor ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Wrangler Jeans (Firm) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Prague (Okla.) ; Okemah Hospital ; Raton and Colorado Centennial Park ; Los Alamitos (Calif.) ; California ; San Mateo (Calif.) ; Bay Meadows (Calif.) ; Depew (Okla.) Parents 0 324 Early Life RS: Exactly. Well, Chief Hill, I heard a birth story about you that I wanted you to share. Actually, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] and Jason [Salsman], both, told me about it, about you being born early and with the doctor and everything. Can you tell us about that?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, my youngest daughter, ShaVon [Shavon Britt Hill Agee], is always posting it during my birthday. Seven months, and I was four and a half pounds. And I didn’t notice ShaVon had talked to my mom about it. And I guess the doctor was wanting to know if he could adopt me. I guess she told him no. Said my mom’s going to take care of him, which I already had two brothers and two sisters, so, he thought it was going to be too much for mom. When ShaVon asked, well, did you ask grandma? She said, no. She said, but he didn’t know that. My name David comes, I guess they more or less the doctor picked the name for me. Picked David out of the Bible.
 ; David and Monica talk about their early lives. David was born early and named after the doctor. David talks about growing up in Gypsy, Oklahoma. Monica lived in a home in Depew, Oklahoma. ShaLae Hill Shaw ; Jason Salsman ; Shavon Britt Hill Agee ; Bible ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Wetumka (Okla.) Life ; Family 0 494 Childhood RS: Alright. Well, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. These are just kind of some fun questions to get to know you. So, Chief, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played when you were young?
 ; 
 ; DH: Not really. We, basically, played outside. We lived out in the country, and you know, Christmastime, me and my brother may get a basketball, football, and just whatever, and that was about it. Otherwise, we got in the woods running, fishing, hunting.
 ; David and Monica talk about their childhood. David was a country boy and loved playing in the woods. He spent lots of time with his cousins riding bikes and playing ball. Monica had a toy record player with plastic records that she played with frequently. She wrote letters to her friend, Tracy when she was away in California. The Beatles ; Felix Hill ; Danny Hill ; Franklin Hill ; Diana Jackson ; Richard Graham ; Howard Webb ; Randy Webb ; California ; Tracy Haskins Childhood 0 744 Hobbies RS: I’d imagine. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; DH: Probably just playing basketball.
 ; 
 ; RS: Basketball. Always basketball? Was that your sport.
 ; 
 ; DH: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: What about you, Monica?
 ; 
 ; MH: I played basketball, but I wasn’t good like him. In California, it was like a park and recreation thing, and so they played full court. And then I came back home and they’re doing six on six.
 ; David and Monica both enjoyed playing basketball when they were young. David says he doesn't have much time for hobbies now but enjoys mowing the yard. He also really enjoys history and learning about the past. Basketball ; History Hobby 0 804 Family History RS: I agree with you. I feel like since I’ve been involved with the historical society, I have gotten more involved in history and learning about Bristow’s history, and it made me wish I would have paid attention, more probably, in school than what I did. But I find history super fascinating, too, and I’m sure with what you’re doing it’s really.
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, since we got married at a young age, we was a sophomore, I probably would have taken those classes in school, but I guess, it was ’91 ’92 when my grandmother passed away, me and my brother, Solomon, would always go visit with her. Mom [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024] had mentioned that she had, there’s 412 pages of old paper ledgers of Charley Coker. If you read the history, he was with Crazy Snake [Chitto Harjo 1846-1911] at the time.
 ; David talks about visiting his grandmother when she was alive. She told David about a 412-page ledger that Charley Coker had written. David had it translated during Covid from the old Creek language. They now have it safely stored in a safety deposit box. Solomon Hill ; JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell ; Charley Coker ; Chitto Harjo ; English ; Creek ; Washington D.C. ; William McKinley ; Franklin D. Roosevelt ; Covid ; Margaret McKane Mauldin ; University of Oklahoma ; Andrew Jackson ; Smoke Meat Rebellion ; Mel Hallin Bolster ; Robert J. Conley ; Cherokee ; Pierce (Okla.) ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Eufala (Okla.) History 0 1466 School RS: Incorporate some of that into there, potentially? Well, that’s SO interesting. Okay, well, let’s see. Let’s talk about your school life. You, I know, were between Depew [Oklahoma] and California with your school, and then did you, Chief Hill, go to just Gypsy [Oklahoma]?
 ; 
 ; DH: Gyspy.
 ; 
 ; RS: And that just, was it the same as it is now? It just went to eighth grade?
 ; 
 ; DH: Eighth grade.
 ; David attended Gypsy School through the eighth grade. Then he transferred over to Depew for high school. Monica attended Depew School. Monica says her favorite teacher was her kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Rigney. Molly Reeder taught Monica in third grade and also taught Monica's grandpa and mother and later Monica's daughter. Channel 2 did an interview about Mrs. Reeder teaching four generations. David is still in contact with his high school basketball coach, Roger Carter. Depew (Okla.) ; California ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Jimmy Jay Donaldson ; Mason (Okla.) ; Molly M. Ailey Reeder ; Linda Harrington ; Roger Carter School 0 1709 Favorite Subject RS: That’s awesome! So, were you guys involved in any clubs or organizations in school? I mean, obviously, you both really liked sports, but were you involved in any other activities in school.
 ; 
 ; MH: I don’t think Depew had.
 ; 
 ; RS: Didn’t have too much.
 ; 
 ; MH: Anything like that.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. Did you have a favorite subject? And basketball doesn’t count.
 ; 
 ; MH: I liked math. I didn’t know that much about history then, so, now I do. Now everything is about history. It’s all I want to do is read books, but back then it was probably, I like math. I still like math and chemistry.
 ; 
 ; DH: I really can’t even remember. I only took algebra because of her.
 ; 
 ; RS: Was she in the algebra class and that’s what you liked. We know where you priorities were.
 ; 
 ; DH: And I got a spanking on her behalf, you know.
 ; David and Monica weren't involved in many activities in school besides sports. They both loved basketball. Monica says she enjoyed Math and Chemistry. David says he only took algebra because of Monica. Depew (Okla.) ; Algebra ; Basketball ; Chemistry subject ; School 0 1742 Family Homes RS: Oh, that’s funny. Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the houses you grew up in. What was your, what was your home like that you grew up in as a, as a kid.
 ; 
 ; DH: Mine was, more less, what they call a shotgun house. Dad had bought one from, I think it was Jimmy Talent, years ago, well, back in’64 or ’65. Moved there, and you know, it was just, just a square house.
 ; David grew up in a small shotgun house in Gypsy. Originally there was no bathroom, just an outhouse. Monica's family had a brick home in Depew. She remembers being referred to as the "rich girl" by other children. Monica's family also had an apartment in California to live in when they were there for her father's work. Creek Nation ; Gypsy School ; Jan Donaldson ; California ; Oklahoma ; All-American Futurity Home 0 2027 Mealtimes RS: What were meal times like with your family? Did everyone sit down and eat dinner? Tell me about a typical meal time.
 ; 
 ; DH: Ours, the elders would eat first. Kids were always last. When I think now, just breakfast, it was the same thing, eggs, bacon. But during dinner time it was, you know, like baked beans, potatoes. Because now it’s a four-course meal.
 ; David remembers mealtimes as a child. He says that the elders always ate first, then the children ate last. He recalls some of the traditional foods his mother fixed. He enjoyed cvtv hakv and sofke, which is like hominy corn. Monica recalls her father making chocolate fudge. She really enjoyed visiting Jack in the Box when they were in California. California ; Jack in the Box Meal 0 2293 Community Activities-Stomp Dances RS: Oh, wow! Interesting, okay. So, thinking back to growing up, probably more teenager time, were there any favorite community activities that you guys did. I don’t know, did you ever come here for Western Heritage Days or was there day camps, parades, county fairs, was there anything like that community related that either one of you were involved in as youngsters?
 ; 
 ; MH: As youngsters or, I mean like, once we met, we went to the stomp dances. So that’s probably what he did most all the time.
 ; David talks about the main community activity he was involved with was the stomp dances. He says many people think a stomp dance is similar to a pow-wow, but he says it is different. It is a sacred gathering. David says his ceremonial ground is Okfuskee and they dance four times a year. Western Heritage Days ; Okfuskee County (Okla.) ; IXL (Okla.) ; Highway 48 ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Castle (Okla.) ; Creek Nation ; Euchee (Okla.) ; Sand Creek (Okla.) ; Iron Post (Okla.) ; Kellyville (Okla.) ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma ; Alabama ; Trail of Tears ; Georgia ; Sammy Hill ; Green Corn ; Rick Shaw ; ShaLae Hill Shaw Stomp dance 0 2795 Church MH: Huh-uh, no. I mean my grandpa was Creek and he would, he had been, but he was more of a church and went to the [indecipherable] the Creek churches also. And, back then, it was more like, if you got to church, you don’t go to stomp dances, and his grandma had really embedded that in him a lot. Because she used to dance with them when she got to church, and so it was really a big division, so it was kind of, especially after we got saved, I wasn’t real sure about that division, about what exactly it was. So, when we went to the stomp dance all night and we got home at 8:00 in the morning, we took a shower and then we went to church. So, we did both. But now, there’s a lot of people that go to church and do the stomp dances, and it’s not that, it’s one, it’s not that they are worshiping the fire or anything like that. It’s the creator. We call our creator God or Jesus, and they call their creator, Creator. But it’s the same person. It’s just how they
 ; 
 ; RS: So, do you feel there’s less of that division now? Is that what you’re saying?
 ; David and Monica attended church growing up. Monica went to the Depew Church of God. David attended a church in IXL called Buckeye Church. Also, his uncle pastored Nuyaka Church. Monica says there used to be a division among people about church and attending the stomp dances. She believes it is a part of their culture and she doesn't believe a Christian is worshipping the fire. She says they call the creator, Creator and as a Christian she calls her creator God. Creek ; God ; Jesus ; Buckeye Church ; IXL (Okla.) ; Nuyaka Church ; Greenleaf ; Depew Church of God Church 0 2964 Favorite Businesses RS: Depew Church of God, okay. And that’s still there, isn’t it? Yeah, okay. So, whenever you were growing up, do you remember any particular, I guess, popular or favorite businesses that you frequented around town, whether it was here or in Depew?
 ; 
 ; DH: After we got married or younger?
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, I mean, I guess you were married young, so that’s kind of both ways.
 ; 
 ; DH: I guess, in between, it’s kind of funny, but my brothers, back then, everyone drug main. You drag main.
 ; David and Monica both drug main when they were younger. David would hang out with his older brother, Solomon, when he was young (probably seventh or eighth grade.) Monica hung out with her cousins, Eric and LaTonya Mayberry, and her friend Tracy. They would park at the 7-Eleven and watch everyone else go by because they weren't old enough to drive yet. David also mentions that the drive-in movies was also popular when they were younger. Depew (Okla.) ; Solomon Hill ; Eric Mayberry ; LaTonya Mayberry ; 7-Eleven, Inc. ; Bristow (Okla.) Business 0 3093 Automobiles RS: But not big on skating? Do you remember your family’s first car? What was your first car?
 ; 
 ; DH: 1969 Dodge Super Bee.
 ; 
 ; RS: A Dodge Super Bee, cool!
 ; 
 ; DH: I got that in eighth grade.
 ; David's first car was a 1969 Dodge Super Bee. Monica didn't have her license until after her and David were married. She did drive her mom's T-Bird around Depew when she was younger. David recalls a time that a highway patrol brought him home because he was driving before he received his license. Dodge ; Gremlin automobile ; Depew (Okla.) ; highway patrol Automobile 0 3214 Entertainment RS: Well, so, growing up, what sort of entertainment did you guys enjoy? Did you get to watch TV or anything like that? I know you, obviously, liked music because you had your little records and your cassette player.
 ; 
 ; MH: When I was in California, I went to Disneyland a lot and Knott’s Berry Farm.
 ; 
 ; RS: She didn’t have any idea what kind of life she was living, did she?
 ; Monica visited Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm when she was in California as a child. She also would go to the movie theater. Monica would drive the golf cart while her father golfed in Los Alamitos. She loved watching "I Love Lucy" as a child. David spent much of his childhood outdoors. He would play baseball and go hunting and fishing with his brother and cousins. California ; Disneyland (Calif.) ; Knott's Berry Farm (Buena Park, Calif. : Amusement park) ; Benji (Motion picture) ; Los Alamitos (Calif.) ; I love Lucy (Television program) ; Bewitched (Television program) ; Brady bunch (Television program) ; Partridge family (Television program) Entertainment 0 3410 Historical Moments RS: While he was swimming with the snakes. Okay, so, do you recall any, and I say it’s kind of related to TV, any pivotal historical moments as a kid? I guess, I’m thinking for some people that I’ve talked to, like they remember watching, you know, the astronauts land on the moon or whatever on TV. Was there anything like that for you guys that you remember that really stuck out to you on TV that you witnessed, a historical something-or-other?
 ; 
 ; DH: No.
 ; 
 ; RS: Because you were outside.
 ; 
 ; DH: I was outside.
 ; 
 ; MH: I remember being at my Grandpa Watson’s and there was something going on about the moon and the people, but I didn’t, at the time, realize what it was.
 ; David doesn't remember witnessing any historical events on television as a child. He was busy playing outside. Monica remembers being at her grandpa's house and hearing about something going on with the moon. She didn't realize then what was happening. Monica does remember when Nixon left and seeing him wave and get on a plane. She also remembers when Ronald Reagan got shot. Richard Nixon ; Sonny and Cher ; Ronald Reagan History 0 3530 Medical Care RS: Okay, so, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or was it more, did your mom or grandma have remedies or whatever that
 ; 
 ; DH: Just grandma.
 ; 
 ; RS: Just grandma.
 ; 
 ; DH: As far as if I had a tooth ache or anything, I remember just dad taking me to Okmulgee or mom just pull it out, you know. That was it. But I never, as far as sickness, I don’t remember going to the doctor. Any broken bones or cuts or anything.
 ; David said his grandmother had home remedies for illnesses. One remedy that his mother continued using was making grease from the fat of a skunk and using that as oil for treating earaches. Monica remembers seeing Dr. Krug here in Oklahoma at least once for medical care. Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Dr. Krug Medical Care 0 3711 Career Dreams RS: Alright, and then, so do you remember as a child what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; DH: Not really. Not until I started going to seventh, eighth grade, ninth grade, I wanted to be the first Creek to play in the NBA.
 ; 
 ; RS: Really?! Well, that’s cool!
 ; 
 ; DH: My idol was Spud Webb.
 ; David dreamed of being the first Creek to play basketball in the NBA. His idol was Spud Webb. Monica doesn't remember having a dream job as a child. She decided she would like to become a nurse after the birth of her first daughter. Creek ; National Basketball Association ; Spud Webb Career 0 3766 Early Married Life RS: Right. Well, so, I know that you had an interesting start in life, and I would like for you to tell us about that. I know you got together young and you were, had a baby young, can you tell us about that and your start together in life? So, you met him in eighth grade.
 ; 
 ; MH: And we got married, we were in the tenth grade.
 ; 
 ; RS: Got married in the tenth grade.
 ; David and Monica married when they were in the tenth grade. They were pregnant with their first daughter, ShaRee. They dropped out of school. Monica's mother wouldn't let Monica move out with David until he could get afford a place for them to live. They moved in together a few months after marriage and got an apartment that was part of the Creek Nation housing. Monica did not like being so far from her family and friends. They ended up moving into an apartment in Stroud. They did not have a lot of money but made the best of their life together. Creek Nation ; Okemah (Okla.) ; John Cassady ; Kool-Aid ; Cheeze-Its ; Atari ; Little Debbie ; Anchor Life ; Marriage 0 4178 Children RS: Oh, I bet! Okay, so tell me the names of your children, their names and their birthdates.
 ; 
 ; MH: ShaRee Brooke Hill, June 20, 1981.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; MH: ShaLae Bree Hill [Shaw], July 21, 1982. ShaVon Britt Hill [Agee], March 14, 1986.
 ; 
 ; RS: And how many grandchildren do you guys have?
 ; 
 ; MH & ; DH: Seven.
 ; 
 ; MH: But we have two great niece and great nephew that ShaRee is raising.
 ; David and Monica have three daughters- ShaRee, ShaLae and ShaVon. They have seven grandchildren. ShaRee Brooke Hill ; ShaLae Bree Hill Shaw ; ShaVon Britt Hill Agee Children 0 4204 Further Education RS: Okay, all right. I know we talked a little bit before because of the way your life started out, you guys had dropped out of school, but you both went and got your GED later. You got yours first, was that right?
 ; 
 ; DH: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; RS: And then you went into
 ; 
 ; DH: No!
 ; 
 ; MH: Yes, you got yours first.
 ; 
 ; RS: The aerospace industry and you told me you went.
 ; 
 ; MH: It’s kind of that competition thing. Oh, he got a GED. Well, I’m going to go get my GED. And I only missed on problem on my math, and that’s the thing they said no one’s never done that before.
 ; David and Monica both went and got their GEDs later after they had dropped out of high school. David went into the aerospace industry. He had a 30-year career in the industry. Monica attended Tulsa Community College for nursing. She attended with her mother. Aerospace ; Registered Nurse ; ShaRee Brooke Hill ; Tulsa Community College ; Tulsa (Okla.) Education 0 4377 David's Career MH: So, I’ll do that. So, when I went to school to become a nurse, I wasn’t really going to go to work then. It don’t really work like that because you need to work after became a nurse, so that’s how all that happened. Now, David, he got his GED just to have it, because they were offering it. And, then, later, because he worked at John Cassady (ph) and then he went to work for Clyde McGuire to operate the pulling unit. Clyde was really very good to him. He was like a dad to David. He went to church with us, and ended up being our pastor. But when the oil field went bad, he still kept David working welding and making stuff, you know, to make sure he had forty hours. David wanted to do something different. He was interested in the aeronautics and stuff, and so, he started going to school. Was that at Tulsa Air Park? Was that what it was called at the time? 
 ; 
 ; RS: Is that called something different now? Or is it dissolved?
 ; 
 ; DH & ; MH: I don’t know.
 ; David worked at John Cassady. Later he went to work for Clyde McGuire. Clyde was like a father to David. When the oil field went bad Clyde kept David working doing welding and other things. Then David became interested in aeronautics and started going to school for that. He started working at Nordam. He started at the bottom and kept working his way up. Clyde McGuire ; John Cassady ; Tulsa Air Park ; Tulsa Junior College ; Tulsa Community College ; Tulsa Technology Center ; Nordam Career 0 4499 Creek Nation Council RS: And, was it during that time, that you decided to run for the council? Were you at Nordam?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, yes, I was at Nordam, and also, before that, I got on the school board at Depew.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, okay.
 ; 
 ; DH: So, I was doing that.
 ; 
 ; MH: And the business board at Bristow Community Center, because it was like nineteen years before he from the time he started, he started at Nordam in ’89 and didn’t get on the council until 2008.
 ; David decided to run for council when he was 43. Before that he had been on the school board at Depew. He also was involved in the Bristow Indian Community Center. He became interested when talking to former representatives and they convinced David to run. He decided to run for council because he wanted to help the citizens. Council ; Nordam ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow Community Center ; Bristow Indian Community Center ; George Tiger ; Roger Barnett ; Creek Nation ; Jason Salsman ; Bill Fife Creek Nation Council 0 4670 Chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation RS: Okay. Was it just then, maybe, like a natural evolution for you to decide to run for Chief? Or what was the deciding factor to push you to want to run for Chief?
 ; 
 ; DH: I was, actually, asked to run four years before I did.
 ; 
 ; RS: Really?
 ; 
 ; DH: But, you know, I just felt like I wasn’t ready. You always get that feeling and, plus, we just prayed a lot. Is this the right thing to do? So, I just decided to wait four years and see how it goes.
 ; David was asked to run for Chief four years before he finally did. He felt like he wasn't ready and during that time he became the Second Speaker. David and Monica prayed a lot before his decision to run for chief. His first year in office was rough because of Covid. One big accomplishment during David's time in office has been the new complex. David is known to tell his team to just do it and get in there and get the job done. Chief ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma ; Jason Salsman ; Covid ; A.D. Ellis ; George Phillip Tiger ; James R. Floyd ; Greg Anderson ; Nike (Firm) ; Ray Siegfried ; Nordam Chief ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma 0 5276 Accolades RS: Well, I know one thing that Jason [Salsman] kept kind of saying over and over is your compassion, caring about the people, that sometimes it’s what can the position do for me versus what can I do for the people, and that you’re not like that. You’re there to help the people. And I think it’s pretty evident by your leadership and how everyone speaks of you that I’ve talked to. And Jason just thinks you’re wonderful, and so from that, we’ll transition into some of your accolades. I saw where you were Time Magazine’s one of 2020’s most 100 Most Influential People. Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; DH: That was, didn’t know what to think. I received that email, and I forwarded it to Jason [Salsman], and I said look at this. Is this legit? I said, I don’t know, why? Why me?
 ; One of David's biggest accolades is being named one of 2020's 100 Most Influential People in Time Magazine. Because of Covid they didn't have the ceremony that year, it just aired on television. David did go to New York with Jason Salsman eventually. The television crew did an episode on David and even came and talked to his family. His mother talked to them about The Trail of Tears in original Creek. It was recorded for the National Geographic.
 ; Jason Salsman ; Time Magazine ; Sharice Davids ; Kansas ; Covid ; Nightline (Television program) ; Sammy Hill ; Trail of Tears ; River Spirit Casino ; Seminole Tribe ; Choctaw Tribe ; Cherokee Tribe ; Chickasaw Tribe ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; National geographic ; Charley Coker 0 5652 Casino DH: That’s what I thought. Even our hotel at the casino, when me and Monica, they had to have a room, the top floor is just designated for me.
 ; 
 ; MH: Not the whole top floor, but
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, it is almost.
 ; 
 ; MH: It’s like a 2000 square foot.
 ; 
 ; DH: It’s the very end. The king suite. I don’t know why, oh, it’s the Chief’s Suite.
 ; 
 ; RS: The Chief’s Suite. Well, that makes sense.
 ; David and Monica have a designated suite at the hotel at the casino. It's a large section of the top floor and it's the Chief's Suite. David said it sometimes takes them 30 minutes to make it all of the way back up to their room because so many people stop and want to talk to them. Casino ; University of Oklahoma Casino 0 5724 Conferences DH: That’s even going out of state. Some different conferences that Monica goes with me. I get approached by other tribal leaders from other tribes. I mean, they just, what’s happened with the supreme court ruling really, like I said, the spotlight. It’s just not me.
 ; 
 ; RS: Have you gotten more comfortable with in that position of being in the spotlight? Because being a low-key kind of quiet, seems to me, individual that would be, I guess it just goes with the territory?
 ; 
 ; MH: I think he’s more comfortable.
 ; David attends many different events and conferences as the Chief. He was the first tribal leader to attend a conference in D.C. with the Supreme Court judges. David and Monica have even attended a Red-Carpet event in Hollywood. It was for the show Reservation Dogs. Washington D.C. ; Republican ; Supreme Court ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; California ; Reservation Dogs ; Hollywood ; Nightline (Television program) ; D'Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai ; Sterlin Harjo conferences 0 5985 Mo Brings Plenty RS: So, on that same line, because I personally want to know, how did you meet Mo [Mo Brings Plenty] from Yellowstone? Because I’ve actually seen him at the basketball games, which is, you know, an odd, it’s cool, but I love him on Yellowstone, and then I know he’s hung around here some with you. So, how did you end up meeting him?
 ; 
 ; DH: It was 
 ; 
 ; MH: Rez at Las Vegas.
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, I didn’t personally know him then.
 ; 
 ; MH: Well, that’s the first time
 ; David has become good friends with the actor Mo Brings Plenty. He played on the show Yellowstone. David and his brother, Solomon had small roles in the show "Lawman Bass Reeves" because of Mo. Mo has attended some of David's grandchildren's basketball and softball games. Mo has even visited David and Monica's home. Mo Brings Plenty ; Yellowstone ; Las Vegas (Nev.) ; River Spirit Casino ; Lawman: Bass Reeves ; Solomon Hill ; Paramount ; Rick Shaw ; Sarah Ann Haney-Brings Plenty ; Cole Brings Plenty ; Kansas ; South Dakota Mo Brings Plenty 0 6245 John Shepherd MH: Who they are or anything, so we were at festival and this guy comes up and he was doing movie, he’s a producer, I guess. We didn’t know, he was with another friend of ours that helped with our campaign that’s a model and actor. He’s been wanting to meet David and everyone said, he won’t meet you. He’s too busy. He don’t have time, you know. He came up to meet and greet, and so, we talked for an hour, and then
 ; 
 ; RS: And who was this?
 ; 
 ; DH: Shep
 ; 
 ; MH: Yeah, John Shepherd (ph).
 ; 
 ; DH: The one that’s doing the movie now that’s down here.
 ; David has also become acquainted with the movie producer John Shepherd. He filmed a movie recently here in Bristow. He came over to David and Monica's home for dinner and to visit. John then attended church with the Hills and even ate lunch with them after the service. John Shepherd ; Rick Shaw ; Billy Graham ; Los Arcos ; California ; Mo Brings Plenty John Shepherd 0 6473 Harvard DH: The other exciting thing I got to do was go to Harvard.
 ; 
 ; MH: Oh, I forgot about that.
 ; 
 ; RS: You went to Harvard?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, me and Jason [Salsman]. They interviewed us, speak to the classroom, so we get through, and we say we want you to sign a book. So, I went in and this actual book when the visitors come. What’s that prince’s wife? What’s her name?
 ; 
 ; MH: Oh, um. Who’s the prince?
 ; 
 ; RS: Kate? Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; MH: Was it Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; DH: Kate, yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, I signed right behind her.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; DH: And I thought, what am I doing signing, you know at Harvard.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; DH: It was just things like that.
 ; 
 ; RS: Blows your mind. Yeah, that’s crazy.
 ; David was also able to visit Harvard. David was interviewed and spoke to a class. They also wanted David to sign books. He ended up signing right behind Kate Middleton. Harvard ; Jason Salsman ; Kate Middleton Harvard 0 6511 Documentary MH: Oh, and they did a documentary. I don’t know if you’ve heard about that.
 ; 
 ; RS: I haven’t.
 ; 
 ; MH: Bad Press.
 ; 
 ; RS: The what? 
 ; 
 ; MH: Bad Press. So, when he was running for Chief, they wanted to know if they could follow us. They were following several of the candidates, you know. And I thought, I understood that it was about
 ; 
 ; DH: Elections.
 ; David was also in a documentary. It is called Bad Press. They followed David around when he was running for Chief. The documentary ended up winning many awards and even made it to the Sundance Festival. Documentary ; Bad Press ; Chief ; Sundance Film Festival documentary 0 6683 Wisdom RS: Well, I think right now that probably is the case, because you are SO busy all the time. Well, as we wrap up this interview, I’m wondering do each of you, do you have any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations to draw from whether it be, you know, from a married perspective or a work perspective…do you have any general advice or wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? I want both of you to answer.
 ; 
 ; MH: I’d have to think a while. I could really come up with something good if I thought a while. Number one is the Lord first. The Lord first and He will take of everything. David and Monica finish the interview with some words of wisdom. Monica says to put the Lord first and He will take care of everything. David agrees with Monica that you have to keep the Lord first. He also talks about how he would not go back and change things in his early life. He says that would change everything and where he is today. Wisdom ; Chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation ; ShaLae Bree Hill Shaw ; ShaRee Brooke Hill ; ShaVon Britt Hill Agee ; Mekko ; Columbus ; Charley Coker ; Bristow Historical Society Wisdom 0 MP3 David and Monica talk about their early life together, their family, their careers and what their life has been like during David’s terms as Principal Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 12, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Principal Chief David Hill and his wife, Monica Hill, at the Bristow Library Annex. They are going to tell us a little bit about their life and their history living in the Bristow area. Can you each state your full name, please? DH: David Walter Hill. MH: Monica Lynn Hill. RS: Okay, and do I have permission to record this interview? MH: Yes. DH: Yes. RS: Okay. So, can you each tell me when and where you were born? DH: November 6, 1964 in Talihina [Oklahoma]. MH: December 13, 1964, Stroud [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay, and were your born in a hospital or at home? DH: Hospital. RS: Hospital. And what about you, Monica? MH: Hospital. RS: Hospital, okay. Can you each tell me about the people in your family? So, let’s start with your parents. Chief Hill, can you tell me what your parents’ names are and if you had, and that includes any step-parents you might have had. DH: My father was George Hill [8/16/1919-1976] and my mother was JoAnn Hill [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024]. RS: Okay, and what about you, Monica? MH: Connie Baker [Connie Lavon Deese Watson Baker] and John Watson [John Robert Watson]. Mom’s middle name was Deese. RS: Okay, and no step-parents for either of you? MH: Yeah, for maybe a year, but RS: That’s okay. DH: Same here. About three, three or four years. RS: Okay, that’s fine. Chief, do you have any siblings? DH: I have two brothers and two sisters. RS: Two brothers and two sisters. Can you tell us their names? DH: Both sisters are twins. The oldest one is Jeanette, Jeanette Horse [Jeanette Martin]. My other sister, Janet Hill. And my brother is Sammy Hill and Solomon, Solomon Hill. RS: I did not know Solomon was your brother. I’m learning something new. Okay, and then what about you, Monica? MH: I have a sister, Lucinda. RS: Just one sister? Okay, and what’s her full name? MH: Thomas. Lucinda Thomas. RS: Lucinda Thomas. Okay. So, what type of work did your parents do? DH: Best I can remember of my dad, I was only 11-1/2 when he passed away. He did kind of like the tree line service, where they cut the tree limbs, trees down, whatever. Then he went to Prescor in Sapulpa, and he was kind of like a maintenance person, I believe. RS: And then your mom, did she just work in the home? DH: More of a seamstress. She used to work at the garment factory here in Bristow. Then she went to Okemah [Oklahoma]. MH: Wrangler Factory. DH: Wrangler Factory there. Then Chandler [Oklahoma]. Not Chandler. MH: Prague [Oklahoma]. DH: Prague, I believe. RS: So, she was pretty much always a seamstress, then? DH: Now she did work at the hospital, Okemah Hospital for as a cook. RS: Okay, and then Monica, you had kind of an interesting story about what your dad did, especially. MH: Want me to tell that? RS: Yeah! If you want, go right ahead. MH: Well, he was a quarter horse jockey, so we traveled a lot. In the early, like when I was two and three, it was like Raton and Colorado Centennial Park, but then maybe around ’68, ’69 right before I started school, he started riding in Los Alamitos [California]. So, we would leave here in October and go to Los Alamitos and he would race a couple months there and then we’d leave and go up to northern California to San Mateo and he would ride at Bay Meadows for a couple months. Then we’d come back to Los Alamitos, which is southern California, and he would do that meet. They would fly me home, because I started school in August and school didn’t end there until June, because they started in September, so they would fly me home for the last three or four weeks of school. I’d do that. Stay there for a couple weeks, fly me back out to California and then a week before the meet, school starts, so they’d fly me back home in August to start again. Then they would come home for three months and then we’d start again in October. RS: So, you had quite an interesting childhood growing up, then. MH: Yeah, I didn’t know it at the time. I didn’t like it. I wanted to be normal like everybody that’s mom and dad goes to work and he comes home. But, now, I’m like, gosh, I wished I would have known to enjoy it instead of complaining all the time. I just want to live in Oklahoma. I just want to stay in Depew. It was good. I got to meet a lot of people and do a lot of different things that I didn’t really realize until I was older. RS: Got to see a lot of things and experience a lot of things that, otherwise, you wouldn’t have living in just Depew, right? MH: And always on the go. You know, almost prepared for this here, because it’s like, it’s no difference than that. You’re always on the go. You’re always packing and unpacking. RS: I feel like trying to even schedule this appointment was tricky, because you guys are always going somewhere it seems like. MH: We ran home, and I unpacked, and I was like, oh, I’m going to have to do this again on Thursday. RS: Exactly. Well, Chief Hill, I heard a birth story about you that I wanted you to share. Actually, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] and Jason [Salsman], both, told me about it, about you being born early and with the doctor and everything. Can you tell us about that? DH: Yeah, my youngest daughter, ShaVon [Shavon Britt Hill Agee], is always posting it during my birthday. Seven months, and I was four and a half pounds. And I didn’t notice ShaVon had talked to my mom about it. And I guess the doctor was wanting to know if he could adopt me. I guess she told him no. Said my mom’s going to take care of him, which I already had two brothers and two sisters, so, he thought it was going to be too much for mom. When ShaVon asked, well, did you ask grandma? She said, no. She said, but he didn’t know that. My name David comes, I guess they more or less the doctor picked the name for me. Picked David out of the Bible. RS: Oh! Okay. DH: And my middle name, Walter, was named after the doctor. RS: Wow! Okay. Well, that’s neat. So, are you the youngest of your siblings? DH: Yes, I’m the youngest. RS: Okay, okay. And then growing up did each of you have family that lived nearby? MH: All my family was in Depew and Bristow, so when we were home, they were nearby. My aunt was next door. My grandpa and grandma and everybody was in town. RS: And then what about you, David? Where did you grow up? DH: I grew up in Gypsy [Oklahoma]. RS: In Gypsy. DH: Just south of Bristow. All the family lived there. My aunt and uncle, we actually still lived on the allotted land that was given to our grandfather back in the early 1900’s. RS: Okay, is that land still in your family? DH: Yes. RS: Okay, okay. So, has your family always been in the Gypsy/Bristow area? DH: As far as my sisters RS: Or when did your family, I guess, come here? DH: ’63 right before I was born. We lived in Wetumka [Oklahoma]. In ’63 moved to Bristow. My dad, my uncle, my aunt all moved at the same time to where we’re at now. RS: Okay, so all the family just lived out, so like how much land? DH: Hundred and sixty-eight. RS: Oh, wow, okay. And then you had, did you live, Monica, did you live in town in Depew? Did you have land? MH: House in Depew. RS: In town? MH: Yeah. RS: Alright. Well, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. These are just kind of some fun questions to get to know you. So, Chief, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played when you were young? DH: Not really. We, basically, played outside. We lived out in the country, and you know, Christmastime, me and my brother may get a basketball, football, and just whatever, and that was about it. Otherwise, we got in the woods running, fishing, hunting. RS: Right. I like that, though. What about you, Monica? MH: I liked my toys. Because I would have to pack up my favorite toys to take with me. RS: To take with you. MH: Yeah, because I’d leave most of that stuff, but I had RS: Do you have any particular memories of particular toys or whatever that you liked? MH: Yeah, it was a little thing that played records, but the records were kind of plastic, like you see, like toys, except it was The Beatles. It was like Let It Be and some of those songs. And then I had a tape recorder, and that was my favorite thing, is I taped my dad. I taped my grandpa. I’d pretend like I was a reporter, and I, that was the main thing I did all the time. RS: You don’t have any of those anymore, do you? Any of those recordings? MH: I have them, but when I tried to play it, it said “grrrr”. RS: Oh no! MH: I hate it. RS: Oh no! That would be fun to still have. Did either of you have chores that you were expected to do whenever you were growing up? DH: No, not really. RS: Not really? DH: Yeah. RS: So, you just got to hang out and be in the woods, huh? What about you, Monica? MH: I bet your mom would say different. I bet you had chores. You probably had to take the trash out. Or you might not have. DH: No, I was the youngest. MH: She had to remind you all the time. DH: I was the youngest. RS: So, you were the baby. You probably got spoiled a little bit, huh? What about you, Monica, did you have any chores? MH: Well, I can’t really think of any chores. DH: Yeah, see! MH: I mean, I made my bed. DH: She was spoiled! RS: Well, it sounds like she had a pretty cool life, honestly. I know that it wasn’t exactly what you probably wanted as a young person, but, like you say, looking back now, it’s like, wow, you got to experience a lot of things. So, did you have friends that came over and played with you when you were young or did you mainly hang out with your siblings? DH: Now as far as friends, my cousins, there was like, we lived on the east side of the creek and they lived on the west side. Felix [Felix Hill] was probably two years older than I was. Danny [Danny Hill] was probably four. Franklin [Franklin Hill] was the same age as my brother. And we all, basically, just played together. Had bicycles. Rode down the dirt road. RS: You had built in best friends with cousins, didn’t you? DH: Yeah. RS: And then what about you, Monica? Did you have, well, you were probably, it was probably tough for you, wasn’t it, to have MH: Well, my friends were here. RS: Right. MH: So, yeah, I had best friends here, girls and boys. My mom went to Depew and so did her best friend Neva and Diana Jackson, and they all three married three guys from Bristow who were friends, so Richard Graham (ph) and Howard Webb, and so then, we were all like, me and Randy (ph) were six days apart, Randy Webb. And then, Brenda is a few months older than us. So, we were all that same age, and so they would do things together and so we would play together. But California, mainly, it was babysitters, I had like babysitters that were like three or four years older. Someone that would come stay with me if I didn’t go to the races and would play games. RS: So, whenever you were out there, with it being a different time, obviously not having social media and cell phones, were you able to stay in contact with your friends back home? Did you write letters? Did you get to call them or did you just have to wait until you came back? MH: Yeah, I’d write letters. Tracy Haskins (ph) was like my best friend. She was from Bristow, and she moved back to Depew and she’s actually kin to me. I’d write letters with her. But other than that, it was back when I came home. RS: When you came back. MH: Because those kids out there, because I had an accent. I didn’t think I had an accent, and then I wore jeans and boots. RS: And that was probably different than MH: Yeah, now my dad said if I’d have came back later after we moved back, everybody was an urban cowboy and you’d have fit in so. RS: I’d imagine. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? DH: Probably just playing basketball. RS: Basketball. Always basketball? Was that your sport. DH: Yes. RS: What about you, Monica? MH: I played basketball, but I wasn’t good like him. In California, it was like a park and recreation thing, and so they played full court. And then I came back home and they’re doing six on six. RS: Yeah, I’m from the half court era, too. Do you, so, how have your interests changed over time from being a young person to now? Do you have any hobbies now that enjoy? I mean, I know you guys have grandkids and stuff like that. Are you too busy to have any hobbies? DH: Yeah, other than just mowing the yard, that’s it. RS: Just mowing the yard. DH: I like history now. Now it, I guess in the, what I’m doing now as a job, learning the history. RS: I agree with you. I feel like since I’ve been involved with the historical society, I have gotten more involved in history and learning about Bristow’s history, and it made me wish I would have paid attention, more probably, in school than what I did. But I find history super fascinating, too, and I’m sure with what you’re doing it’s really. DH: Well, since we got married at a young age, we was a sophomore, I probably would have taken those classes in school, but I guess, it was ’91 ’92 when my grandmother passed away, me and my brother, Solomon, would always go visit with her. Mom [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024] had mentioned that she had, there’s 412 pages of old paper ledgers of Charley Coker. If you read the history, he was with Crazy Snake [Chitto Harjo 1846-1911] at the time. RS: I actually read a little bit about him prior to this interview. DH: She had all these old documents that he wrote, I want to say 80% is in the Creek language, but it’s written the way it sounded to him. He couldn’t speak or write English. Or Creek. He just wrote it the way it sounded to him. RS: So, are you still in possession of those? DH: Yeah. Mom gave them to me. But there’s more ledgers that are missing, it appears. That’s when I kind of started checking into it, looking into it, to see who Charley Coker was. Then I started reading the history on Chitto Harjo, which was Crazy Snake. He had like three or four different names. What they did back then in the early 1900’s before statehood, before Oklahoma became a state, they were fighting for to keep it, ironically, as a reservation back then. RS: They didn’t want statehood, right? MH: Or allotments. DH: Or allotments. It was very traditional. They wanted to keep it as a reservation, so they, actually, fought against the government. MH: Well, they knew what would happen. DH: Yeah. RS: Right, so, with those ledgers, are you able to, since he just wrote them as, I guess, it sounded to him, are you able to translate them? DH: Some of it. If I keep on reading it. That’s why I wished I was more fluent in learning the written history. MH: But even some Creek people can’t. DH: He wrote it, some will say it’s the old language. RS: The what? DH: There’s old language that they say, as far as Creek, and mom was one of them that could speak the old language. Now how years kind of went by RS: That has kind of faded? DH: Yeah, we didn’t have Creek words for car, airplanes or anything like that, so they kind of made it up as they go along. But there was original language that was spoken back then, and mom was one of them that could speak it. And we feel that’s the way he wrote it out when he wrote. There’s letters from Garfield back in 1906. I know it never made it to him because I’ve got the actual envelope and letter. RS: Oh my gosh, that is priceless! DH: And there’s letters that he’s written that they went to Washington D.C. to meet William McKinley, Roosevelt…and he spelled it in Creek on how to pronounce the name. So, there’s interesting information there. I did have, during Covid year, it was kind of shut down. So, a lot of our projects, our language department didn’t have anything to do, so I just asked them, would y’all want to do me a favor. So, I separated all the pages I had and had three of them just write it out. What do you think it was saying? But they wrote it in the Creek language, so I’m going to have to translate that back into English. MH: [Indecipherable] DH: Margaret Mauldin [Margaret McKane Mauldin] who is a teacher at OU [University of Oklahoma], translated one picture, or one letter that was written. It had 1799, Andrew Jackson, and she translated to say that on this day, 1799, Andrew Jackson came through the camp with 3,000 Spanish soldiers and killed some person [indecipherable] or something. She couldn’t figure that out. I still have the actual letter. RS: That’s amazing! So, are they in your possession or do you have them at the headquarters or? DH: It’s at a bank. MH: Safety deposit box. RS: Yeah, I was gonna say, that’s absolutely priceless. DH: But I had them microfiche, microfilm, CD. I put them all on that. RS: And you said there’s like 400 pages? DH: About 412 pages. RS: And have they gotten very far in deciphering. DH: They did all of it. RS: Oh, they did all as best they could. DH: Yeah, so I have to go in and figure out what was said. RS: I’m going to have to circle back to find out whenever you get to the point of, I guess, deciphering all of that, because that’s amazing. DH: And that’s where it becomes interesting, because I asked mom, because Charley Coker passed away before mom was born, but just what grandma had told him. And I was wanting to have all that translated when grandma was still alive but didn’t get a chance to, and so I asked mom, because I have to ask her permission. Can I have these translated? And she was afraid of the stories that she was told that the law enforcement was chasing after him because, she heard that he stole horses. There was two books written, the “Smoke Meat Rebellion” by Mel Hallin Bolster and Robert Langley [Robert J. Conley], he’s Cherokee, wrote a book about Crazy Snake. And if you read that, and also the historical society in Oklahoma City, I got their information. It was actually called the Smoked Meat Rebellion back in the early 1900’s. 1906, 1907 where they chased after, four military groups chased after Charley Coker and Crazy Snake. Because they were as a battle at around Pierce, Oklahoma, Checotah [Oklahoma], Eufala [Oklahoma] area where they chased after them. RS: So, how did your mom, how did she get these? DH: I guess, I don’t know if she was the oldest daughter of Charley Coker, but when he wrote all this down. MH: It’s grandma. The daughter of him. RS: Oh, so your grandma is Charley Coker’s daughter. MH: And, so, she kept all that hidden under her bed, because back then, she never spoke anything but Creek. She never spoke English, but people were after them, you know, because RS: So, she was basically trying to protect. MH: And hide, because she was afraid that they would find DH: They would find it. MH: Yeah, and still be after them, too, even though they are gone, you know. DH: As of today, the family members are the only ones that knows where Charley Coker is buried. Because they put some of the belongings, like his ball sticks or maybe his gun or rifle is buried WITH him, and they were afraid of the non-native knowing where he was buried, they’ll dig him up. RS: Well, now I’m really going to have to go back and research, because that’s a super interesting story to know the connection of your grandmother and your mother. DH: Well, that’s as far as me, I couldn’t speak English until I was in the second grade. RS: Really? So, you spoke completely Creek? Wow! And have you always been able to speak English or can you speak the Creek language? MH: Oh, no. I can only speak English. I mean, my grandpa was Creek, so he got to like [indecipherable] to count and animals and food and stuff. And David, I said he taught me the important words like cepo fvmpe, stinky butt. RS: You know I’m going to have to revisit that and have you tell me how to spell that, because I have no idea. Well, that’s, so, Chitto Harjo, how was that person related? Was that person related at all? DH: Well, mom had told me that Chitto Harjo’s brother was actually Charley Coker’s dad. I mean, there’s no way to find that out, and I don’t know for sure. RS: Don’t know for sure. DH: That’s just what she had said. RS: That’s so neat. DH: Actually, he came through here, Chitto Harjo, came through Bristow at one time. RS: Do you know when, like the date? DH: No, Paula Atwell is the one that told me. She had something RS: Paula Atwell is my go-to gal for history stuff. DH: She’s actually the one that told me about it, probably 10-15 years ago, maybe. RS: Wow! That’s so neat. Well, be expecting a call from me because I would like to know whenever you do get those, I guess, translated. That would be amazing to know what they all say. DH: All the old papers are brown. I mean, you can’t hardly. RS: You have to be very, very, yeah. DH: So, I had to hurry up. MH: That’s why we have copies of them. We did the spray the stuff to protect it and all that, but it still. RS: They still, well, you can only imagine, probably, what those papers went through all those years of being in different climates and under beds. DH: Well, see, I did the wrong thing and put them in Ziploc bag. And they told me not to do that. RS: Moisture. DH: Because once I open it, well, that fresh air. It’s just better to leave them open and lay. RS: I didn’t know that. How interesting! Will those end up going into any type of, do you have, you know, kind of like what we have, the historical society here. Does the tribal headquarters have something like that? DH: We don’t yet. We’re looking to, actually, I was on a committee when I was a national council representative for a museum. But at the time, we purchased the council house and some other things and it got put on the back burner, but we’re gonna do a welcome center that’s in process, so, maybe, hopefully. RS: Incorporate some of that into there, potentially? Well, that’s SO interesting. Okay, well, let’s see. Let’s talk about your school life. You, I know, were between Depew [Oklahoma] and California with your school, and then did you, Chief Hill, go to just Gypsy [Oklahoma]? DH: Gyspy. RS: And that just, was it the same as it is now? It just went to eighth grade? DH: Eighth grade. RS: Okay, alright. MH: Eighth grade is the year that we, me and my mom came home to stay. And, so, otherwise, I wouldn’t have met him, because I wouldn’t have RS: Why don’t you tell, why don’t you tell the story of how you met Chief Hill. MH: Well, we were playing basketball against Gypsy, and Gypsy didn’t have enough girls for a team, so it was just the boys. And, so, I cheered also for the boys, so, I went to the basketball game at Gyspy and I told my friend Molly, I said, oh look at that #44. He’s cute. And she was like, yeah, and so is #41, which was his cousin. Then it just kind of went from there because a lot of the kids that were at Gyspy, like Jimmy Jay Donaldson. He’d come to Depew and then he’d go back to Gypsy and back and forth. So, once he knew that I liked him, and he was teasing him about me and all that. Then he came to school the next year in the ninth grade. RS: So, you did the transfer from Gypsy to Depew and did high school at Depew. DH: Depew. But I did MH: I always say had I not stayed home that year, if I’d kept doing what we were doing, I wouldn’t have ever met him. DH: If I didn’t meet her, I probably would have went to Bristow, because I had Coach Scott. RS: Right. DH: I didn’t realize he came to a basketball game. We was playing basketball, which Gypsy’s not the full length basketball court, and I guess he saw me throw the ball halfway across the court. RS: And then he wanted you to play football! DH: He wanted me to play at Bristow, but my cousin, all my cousins live in and around Mason [Oklahoma], and they wanted me to come to Mason and play basketball. But since all my brothers and sisters and my cousins here went to Depew, I went to Depew. RS: So, did you guys enjoy school? Did you enjoy going to school? DH: I did, but she MH: I don’t know. I liked basketball. RS: So, you weren’t as in to academics as you were sports? MH: Oh, yeah, I did make good grades. I guess it wasn’t…it might have helped that I went to so many different schools, because the school part, work was easier. RS: It was easier for you. Did you have any influential or favorite teachers during that time that stick out to you? MH: Well, Mrs. Rigney (ph) was my kindergarten teacher. RS: Mrs. who? MH: Mrs. Rigney (ph) and we all loved Mrs. Rigney (ph), but Mrs. Reeder, Molly Reeder [Molly M. Ailey Reeder 11/21/1922-10/27/2017], her, she was our third-grade teacher. Now, she taught my grandpa, and then she taught my mom in third grade. And then she taught me in third grade. RS: Oh, wow! MH: So, they did a thing in the newspaper. And then she taught ShaRee [ShaRee Brooke Hill], so then Channel 2 came down because it was four generations that she had taught us, so. RS: Oh, wow, that’s cool! MH: She’s precious and special to everybody at Depew. RS: Well, that’s neat. And what about you, Chief? DH: As far as my favorite teacher? RS: Were there any teachers that you felt were influential to you or maybe a favorite? DH: Probably third and fourth grade, probably Mrs. Harrington, Linda Harrington. RS: Linda Harrington, okay. MH: High school though. DH: Huh? MH: High school. DH: Oh, high school? Probably my basketball coach. Roger Carter. RS: Roger Carter. DH: We still talk. He told Monica he texted me the other day, and he still calls me his point guard. RS: That’s awesome! So, were you guys involved in any clubs or organizations in school? I mean, obviously, you both really liked sports, but were you involved in any other activities in school. MH: I don’t think Depew had. RS: Didn’t have too much. MH: Anything like that. RS: Okay. Did you have a favorite subject? And basketball doesn’t count. MH: I liked math. I didn’t know that much about history then, so, now I do. Now everything is about history. It’s all I want to do is read books, but back then it was probably, I like math. I still like math and chemistry. DH: I really can’t even remember. I only took algebra because of her. RS: Was she in the algebra class and that’s what you liked. We know where you priorities were. DH: And I got a spanking on her behalf, you know. RS: Oh, that’s funny. Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the houses you grew up in. What was your, what was your home like that you grew up in as a, as a kid. DH: Mine was, more less, what they call a shotgun house. Dad had bought one from, I think it was Jimmy Talent, years ago, well, back in’64 or ’65. Moved there, and you know, it was just, just a square house. MH: But they moved that house out onto your land. DH: Yeah, and there was no bathroom, so they had to, dad and my uncles had to build a bathroom in it. Otherwise, it was an outhouse. I tried to tell my daughters that, and they couldn’t believe it. It was my mom and dad in one bedroom. And me and my other siblings, five of us, in one bedroom. Then our grandmother was kind of off and on stayed with us, and my cousins, who I always considered them my aunt and uncle, Johnny, Terry and Mary, they stayed with us. So, you’re RS: Oh, wow! DH: It wasn’t even, how big is your mom’s house? MH: About a thousand square feet. DH: It was probably a thousand square feet. Just a small kitchen. RS: Which is probably why you were outside a lot, huh? DH: Yeah. RS: Yeah, well, that’s interesting. So, was it, I’m guessing, you probably didn’t have air conditioning or, no air conditioning? DH: Just one of them old coolers, you know. RS: So, how long, so they built a bathroom on? So, how long did you have the outhouse situation? DH: Oh, I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you. Probably a couple years. Two, three years, maybe. MH: But how old were you when they built the other house? DH: I was born and raised over there at the other one. Probably, I can’t even remember, so, it had to be four or five. RS: You were little. DH: Yeah. RS: So, you had that house and then they built another house? Is that what you’re saying? DH: No, I’m sorry. They had another house by my aunt and uncle. And I was probably one, two, maybe, three. MH: No, I’m talking about DH: Then they built that house. MH: That your mom is living in now. That house. That’s what I’m talking about. DH: I think it was ’76, ’75, dad got a house and mom through Creek Nation. It was one of the first to get an original house that was being built. That was ’74, ’75 maybe? MH: So, you lived in that house a long time. RS: So, is the original shotgun house still standing? DH: No. RS: It’s gone. And what about you, Monica? MH: Me? Oh. RS: What was your house like? MH: Just a brick house, living room, bedroom, three bedrooms, two baths. DH: I thought she was rich. MH: Well, evidently somebody did, but I didn’t know. I’d go stay with my great aunt in Gypsy, and then I would, when I’d spend the night, I’d would ride the bus to Gypsy School, switch to the high school, then ride with the high school kids. They were all older, you know, and I’m real intimidated because I’m probably just seven or eight or something. Right as we come in town, we go past our house, and I hear somebody say, real derogatory like, oh that’s where the little rich girl lives. And I look up to see where the little rich girl lives and it was my house. And, so, I thought it sounded like they don’t like her, that little girl, so I sat back down and was kind of hiding. Then Jan Donaldson, she was a teenager then, and she knows who I am and my mom and everybody, and so she just looked at me winked and smiled that it was okay. But I remember thinking, I didn’t know I was a little rich girl. Nobody told me. I didn’t get everything I wanted. RS: So, did you dad make, I’m guessing, a pretty good living as a jockey. MH: Yeah. RS: I would think if you’re traveling back and forth from California to Oklahoma as much as what you were. MH: I know that we built that house and then it seems like he won a race and paid the house off. It was the All-American Futurity. It’s a big race. RS: Oh, wow! MH: It’s a million-dollar race. He didn’t get a million but it’s the richest quarter horse race. RS: Right. That’s interesting. MH: Then we had an apartment in southern California that we kept. RS: That you stayed in when you were out there. MH: And then the one in northern California we’d just rent for a couple months. The one in southern, we kept all the time, so, we had two homes. RS: So, see you probably were considered a rich kid then. I bet no one around here knew anything, a life like that. MH: But I was like those kids don’t even know me. I was thinking they don’t even know who I am, so how would they. RS: What were meal times like with your family? Did everyone sit down and eat dinner? Tell me about a typical meal time. DH: Ours, the elders would eat first. Kids were always last. When I think now, just breakfast, it was the same thing, eggs, bacon. But during dinner time it was, you know, like baked beans, potatoes. Because now it’s a four-course meal. RS: Right. DH: And you had to eat everything. You know, mom always made us. If we fix it, you gotta eat it. RS: No leftovers. DH: Monica gets on to me. She said you eat too much now. That’s just the way we grew up. RS: It’s engrained in you from MH: He has to clear his plate. You don’t have to clean your plate. Stop when you’re full. But you did a lot of traditional food. I mean, your mom cooked traditional food all the time. RS: So, tell me what some examples of traditional food would be. DH: Blue bread, what we call cvtv hakv. She would make that. RS: Say that word again. DH: Cvtv hakv. RS: Cvtv hakv. DH: And sofke it was kind of like hominy corn. She would make that. MH: It’s a drink and you use lye. DH: It’s a drink, yeah. RS: Oh wow. Anything else? MH: Grape dumplings. DH: Grape dumplings. It was kind of a dessert for me. RS: So, grape dumplings. What is that? DH: I don’t even know how you fix it. RS: Like what does it consist of? Like is it actual grapes? MH: Grapes, yeah. DH: And they make, they get the color from corn hulls. MH: Seems like I remember you saying that. DH: Now I can’t think. Corn hulls and they beat it. Kind of gets the color of purple. I think now they use like grape juice. Modernized. Got civilized. RS: So, the elders ate first. Was that because it was a small kitchen or is that just traditionally what you would do? DH: It’s just traditionally. Even at the churches when we took, when I went with grandma. Mom, we always took grandma to the churches. She went whenever she wanted to go but that’s just the way it was back then. The elders ate first. The kids ate last. But it’s different now. You want the kids to eat first and get them out of the house. Some of the tradition has kind of gone away. RS: Yeah, I agree. And then, so what about you, Monica, how were meal times at your house? MH: During race time, it was just me and momma until Sundays and then mom would always cook. Sometimes she’d still cook. RS: But didn’t you say you had a sister? MH: Yes, but I didn’t get a sister until I was 11, so I forget. RS: Oh, okay. MH: I mean, I’m thinking back when I was little. RS: Right, when you were little. MH: But mom, I mean she cooked for me and her and then dad, but my dad a lot would stop at Jack in the Box, because they had that in California back then. They didn’t have it here. So, he’d stop at Jack in the Box on the way home, and that was my favorite thing. We’d stay up until 11:00, 11:30 and eat Jack in the Box with my dad. RS: She didn’t even know what kind of life she was living. DH: Yeah! RS: She had no idea! MH: When we’d come back here, though, she’d cook, and my dad cooked a lot. My dad made chocolate fudge. It’s a big thing, because everybody likes daddy’s fudge. I still have the thing on it. And he barbequed a lot. And I remember he made brown beans one time and corn bread, and he put so much sugar in it, but bubbles and that’s how I make my corn bread, too. Gotta have a lot of sugar in it. DH: Cake. RS: Is it good? DH: It’s good. RS: Does that mean it’s good? So, did you have any favorite things that you ate that your mom cooked or your grandma cooked? DH: Just everything they cooked. RS: You just liked everything? Okay. DH: And I dare to say, it’s not near as good as mom, I don’t tell mom. MH: Sofke is your favorite. I mean everyone knows he wants sofke anytime he goes somewhere. DH: Yeah, every. RS: And what is that again? MH: That’s the hominy. RS: Okay. See, I’m learning. I didn’t know. DH: You better eat it the first day. Some people eat the second day, third day. MH: And add sugar to it and let it ferment. RS: Oh, wow! Interesting, okay. So, thinking back to growing up, probably more teenager time, were there any favorite community activities that you guys did. I don’t know, did you ever come here for Western Heritage Days or was there day camps, parades, county fairs, was there anything like that community related that either one of you were involved in as youngsters? MH: As youngsters or, I mean like, once we met, we went to the stomp dances. So that’s probably what he did most all the time. RS: So, that was more of your community activity was stomp dances. Can you tell me about stomp dances? DH: Most people think it’s similar to pow-wows, but it’s different. My ceremonial ground is Okfuskee, which is anybody knows where IXL is at, it’s just straight south on 48 (Highway 48) before you get to Okemah or Castle. Which we dance four times a year. And the dances don’t start until like midnight. Dance until 8 in the morning. And that’s where, there’s sixteen ceremonial grounds within Creek Nation that are Creek. There’s two, there’s three that are Euchee, Euchee grounds. There’s Sand Creek, right beside where mom lives. MH: Iron Post. DH: Iron Post. It’s Sand Creek and Iron Post, but the same. Then you got one in Kellyville [Oklahoma], but they all, that’s where they all get together. RS: So, can you tell me, because I’m not sure that I know, and I’m sure people listening would want to know, like what is the purpose of a stomp dance? DH: It’s just something that started years ago as traditional, culturally related. You have, even though I’m the chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation, each ground has their own Mekko, that’s their chief. That’s what they call them, Mekko. RS: Mekko. DH: And they’re appointed by people. And that’s lifetime position. MH: Appointed by that ground. DH: By that ceremonial ground. MH: It’s their ceremony, and it’s just from the very beginning. They brought the fire. Tell them how they brought the fire from each ground in Alabama. DH: They say there’s a big, kind of like a rock, kind of like a coal, and when you hear the stories of the Trail of Tears, they say they brought the fire with them. That’s, basically, what they’re talking about. They brought the coal with them all the way from Georgia and Alabama back here. And you find the location you want to dig it, so it’s three foot in the ground where then you measure off where your arbor, for your Mekko’s arbor, your warrior’s arbor. We have four arbors at our camp, but there’s some that only have three. And there’s certain ways it has to be set, you know, like the Mekko’s camp always like you’re facing the east. And the warriors sit on each side. Like I say, we have different, we just recently had ours a couple weeks ago. First time without mom, and probably had 13 visitors, because we was the only ones dancing. Like this weekend, you’ll have MH: Not 13 people. Thirteen different grounds. DH: Different grounds. MH: They’re people. DH: So, we probably had 3-400 people there? RS: So, I guess, is it just DH: Gathering? Ceremony? RS: Is it like a…I don’t want to say party, but I mean is it a celebration? DH: It’s a gathering, socializing. MH: It’s kind of sacred. RS: Sacred? DH: Yeah, sacred. RS: Okay, and when you say warriors on each side, what does that look like in today’s terms of warriors? Or I guess, who would be deemed a warrior? DH: Your kind of given a name after you go. I haven’t been since after dad passed away, then that’s when I met Monica, so I went straight to work. And I only went during Friday or Saturday but come back home, so I haven’t been given a name yet. After so long you get to participate. They’ll actually give you a name, who you are. You have the Mekko, which is the chief. Then you’ve got kind of like a speaker, called the heneha. Then you’ll have a medicine man. Then you’ll have another position. There’s like four positions at the ceremonial grounds. Which, my brother Sammy [Hill], he’s a tvstvnke. That’s kind of like the head warrior. RS: Can you say that word again? DH: Tvstvnvke. RS: Okay. DH: It’s kind of like the head warrior. And he’s, basically, got the same, almost the same rights as the chief, makes a lot of decisions or he kind of tells the Mekko or the chief, you know, what needs to be done. And, like I said, when you have dance, you’ll have different ceremonial grounds that come and help, join. Because you want to help your fellow community grounds. RS: Right. And I guess, does everybody dress in? No? DH: It’s just jeans. MH: It’s not pow wow. RS: So, that is different? That’s a different DH: Everyone has their regalia. Now they may wear a ribbon dress. The only time is like what we call Green Corn. All the men, we have to get there like 8:00 and without eating or drinking, get up, and we have to sit around a fire at the camp ground. And the medicine man will make some medicine for us, and all the men have to drink the [indecipherable] four times. RS: Interesting. DH: It’s kind of hard to describe. RS: Well, I’m sure it probably is when it’s something that is so rooted and sacred and rooted in your culture, but for someone like me, it’s interesting to me to hear, even if I don’t fully understand it, I like to hear…I feel like other people would MH: There’s a leader that leads the stomp dances [indecipherable] on the other grounds, they’re grounds will have a leader also, and they’ll take turns leading and, so, they’ll sing, then they follow behind them, and then it’s like a woman DH: The women will wear, back then, traditionally, was turtle shells. They would drill a hole in the shell itself and they would put rocks, usually river rocks and they’ll wear them around their legs. MH: Now they do cans a lot. DH: They do milk cans. MH: Little Milnot cans and that makes the shaking noise. RS: The noise? DH: Yeah. MH: You usually have a [indecipherable]. DH: Men, yeah it’s men, female, male, female. RS: So, do you feel that that’s important for, say, like your kids and your grandkids to be a part of to understand that culture and tradition? DH: Yeah, I think it is. The daughters, which, my son-in-law, Rick [Shaw], he’s not native, but he’s really interested. He’s wanting to learn. And that’s what they both, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] said, too, that she wished she would have learned more, the culture and history. RS: Right. DH: You don’t realize it until you get like thirty or forty. RS: I don’t know why it always takes until you’re older to appreciate, because I feel the same way about history, too, I’m 50 now, and it’s taken me until, really, the last several years to really be interested and appreciate the history. I don’t know why when you’re young, you just don’t, you’re not as invested in it as you probably should be. DH: You know, I guess it’s different back then, when I was growing up. You know, television only went 2, 6, and 8, whatever. You didn’t have all these games. You didn’t have cell phones back then, so that was just embedded in us that weekend, we’ve got to load up and the truck or the vehicle to go to the dance. You know, Friday, Saturday, leave Sunday morning. RS: Is it something that you enjoyed and looked forward to? DH: I did, yeah. Until something occupied me later, you know. But she went with me. RS: So, did you enjoy it as well? MH: Yeah. RS: Had you experienced anything like that prior to getting with Chief Hill? MH: Huh-uh, no. I mean my grandpa was Creek and he would, he had been, but he was more of a church and went to the [indecipherable] the Creek churches also. And, back then, it was more like, if you got to church, you don’t go to stomp dances, and his grandma had really embedded that in him a lot. Because she used to dance with them when she got to church, and so it was really a big division, so it was kind of, especially after we got saved, I wasn’t real sure about that division, about what exactly it was. So, when we went to the stomp dance all night and we got home at 8:00 in the morning, we took a shower and then we went to church. So, we did both. But now, there’s a lot of people that go to church and do the stomp dances, and it’s not that, it’s one, it’s not that they are worshiping the fire or anything like that. It’s the creator. We call our creator God or Jesus, and they call their creator, Creator. But it’s the same person. It’s just how they RS: So, do you feel there’s less of that division now? Is that what you’re saying? MH: Yeah, you have people, church people and, because it’s culture. And it’s we’ll lose that, and they want that part of the culture and want to learn it and want to have that to pass down, also. So, there’s people that do both. RS: So, then, whenever you were young and you were going, it was more, that was kind of your church, for lack of a better way to put it. And you didn’t go to like an actual church? MH: No, he did both. RS: Oh, you did both? Okay. MH: Because he would go with his grandma. DH: We only went from the spring to fall, so in between if we weren’t dancing, mom would always take grandma. Which I went, too. MH: To church. RS: To church. And where did you attend church at? DH: Grandma just started at one church. It’s called Buckeye, Buckeye Church. But it’s right there at IXL, but before then, she just went wherever. Nuyaka Church, where my uncle’s pastor of Greenleaf, a lot of your traditional churches. It was about all weekend. RS: Really, and, so, what did MH: They have camp houses at those churches. And, so, they go and they camp there all weekend and have church. RS: Oh, okay. And where did you attend church? MH: Depew Church of God. RS: Depew Church of God, okay. And that’s still there, isn’t it? Yeah, okay. So, whenever you were growing up, do you remember any particular, I guess, popular or favorite businesses that you frequented around town, whether it was here or in Depew? DH: After we got married or younger? RS: Well, I mean, I guess you were married young, so that’s kind of both ways. DH: I guess, in between, it’s kind of funny, but my brothers, back then, everyone drug main. You drag main. RS: Right. DH: So, if they went to the dance, I stayed home. Well, my brother Solomon said if you go with me, back seat was the only place I could stay. So, I drug main with them, and I had to stay in the back seat. RS: You had to stay in the back seat. DH: So, I was dragging main when I was seventh and eighth grade. RS: So, you were cool then? Do you remember any, I’m just trying to get a feel for as a teenager or whatever, I guess maybe what you guys did, obviously, you drug main. What were some things you did as a MH: Same thing. RS: Drag main? MH: Yeah, with my friend Tracey [indecipherable] was her older sister, so they’d let us or my cousin Eric and LaTonya Mayberry. LaTonya was older and, so, me and Eric was probably in the eighth grade, and she’d take us, of course, she would do that, she would leave us in the back or she would leave us parked at the 7-Eleven, and she’d go off with someone else, and we’d have to sit there and not old enough to drive to watch everybody go by until she came back and got us. RS: And was that in Bristow? MH: Yeah, down there at the, what is it now? RS: Kum & ; amp ; Go. DH: But I guess the popular thing was the old drive-in. RS: Okay. MH: Yeah, we did that a lot. RS: The drive-in? Okay, see that’s kind of, I guess, trying to think back to the businesses that were around at that time and what you did. MH: I forgot about that. Because you’d get out and sit on the car and visit. DH: The skating rink. MH: I wasn’t much on the skating rink. DH: I didn’t go to the skating rink. RS: You didn’t go to the skating rink? MH: I mean, the church went once in a while, but RS: But not big on skating? Do you remember your family’s first car? What was your first car? DH: 1969 Dodge Super Bee. RS: A Dodge Super Bee, cool! DH: I got that in eighth grade. RS: In eighth grade?! DH: My brother, since my dad passed away, me and my brother got the VA checks. So, he was wanting to buy a brand-new car which was a Z28, I think, back then? He said if you make my first car payment and insurance, he said, I’ll let you have this. RS: That was a sweet deal! Well, that’s cool. So, you had a cool car then? DH: Well, I thought it was. MH: I like power steering, power brakes and air conditioning. DH: It had an air conditioner. Just roll down the windows. MH: And an eight-track and you’d have to fold up a piece of paper to put underneath it, so it would, otherwise it would get loose. RS: It would jiggle. So, what was your first car? MH: I didn’t even have a license when we got married, so when we got married, you had that car. Once in a while it was running. Most of the time it wasn’t, and so, he came home one day and he’d bought us a car, our first car. And I was like, oh, I think my mom and dad went together to get a car, and it was a Gremlin. A tan Gremlin! And it was a standard, and I mean, I just barely got my driver’s license anyway. RS: So, who taught you how guys how to drive? Do you remember? DH: My brother. RS: Your brother taught you how. DH: Solomon. RS: Okay. And then what about you? MH: Momma. RS: Your mom taught you how. MH: But in Depew, you could drive in the eighth grade, so she had a T-Bird and I got to drive it around town. DH: I think I drove probably sixth or seventh grade. MH: Yeah, he was in the ninth grade without a license and he’d come to Depew. DH: Actually, I had a highway patrol bring me home. RS: Oh, no! DH: I don’t even think I ever told Monica. The old Talent store in town. I think we needed milk or eggs or something and I got in the car and took off. Well, it stopped on me. RS: And how old were you? DH: I was probably seventh or eighth grade. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: So, it stopped on me and he pulled up and brought me home. RS: Did you get in trouble? A little bit? DH: But I got whatever I needed. Eggs or milk, whatever my sisters needed. RS: Well, so, growing up, what sort of entertainment did you guys enjoy? Did you get to watch TV or anything like that? I know you, obviously, liked music because you had your little records and your cassette player. MH: When I was in California, I went to Disneyland a lot and Knott’s Berry Farm. RS: She didn’t have any idea what kind of life she was living, did she? MH: I didn’t go to Disneyland as much as Knott’s Berry Farm, but we might go to Knott’s Berry Farm once a month or something, me and my friend. They’d drop us off and let us do stuff, ride rides and then pick us up. And the races. Or the movie theater, we got to drop us off and then you just watch movies all day. You know, Benji and stuff like that. I think it was a dollar cinema. It wasn’t like a money thing. That’s because it was California. RS: You had a whole lot of opportunities that people around here didn’t have. MH: My dad golfed a lot at Los Alamitos like on Saturdays, so I’d go with him and drive the golf cart. And then he roped on Sundays when he wasn’t racing. So, I went to a lot of ropings. DH: We, like I said, me and my brothers, my cousins, there was probably eight of us, we’d play baseball outside. We would go fishing, hunting together. Or we would walk down the dirt road from our house all the way to my cousin’s house. And I don’t know what their scientific name is, but we call them mountain boomers, them lizards. And we’d just chase them. I mean, it looked like they were dinosaurs. RS: You guys were living two different kinds of lives. DH: And we would climb the trees, the biggest trees we had. And it wasn’t volleyball, but the smaller basketballs, instead of playing tag where you throw it at each other, we would get in the trees and throw it at each other in the trees. Whoever got hit had to come down. RS: This is creative play, right here. While you were at Disneyland, they were throwing balls at each other in the tree. MH: Now I went to the beach a lot, too. That was creative. DH: We went to the pond. RS: You went to the creek or the pond. DH: We swam in the pond with the snapping turtles and snakes. RS: And the water moccasins. So, I guess there wasn’t probably a lot of TV watching or anything like that growing up? DH: We didn’t. RS: Not for you? DH: Summer time after school or when school wasn’t in, we would go outside. You could hear mom or my sisters yelling like 4:30, 5:00. I mean you could hear them yelling. Said it’s time to come home and eat. That was our cell phone back then. RS: Yeah, exactly. MH: I watched a lot of I love Lucy. RS: Was that your favorite show? MH: Yeah, that Bewitched and The Brady Bunch. I mean it wasn’t like the nighttime. They were already in, whatever you call that. RS: Right. MH: Showing after school. RS: Right, right. Okay. MH: Partridge Family. RS: While he was swimming with the snakes. Okay, so, do you recall any, and I say it’s kind of related to TV, any pivotal historical moments as a kid? I guess, I’m thinking for some people that I’ve talked to, like they remember watching, you know, the astronauts land on the moon or whatever on TV. Was there anything like that for you guys that you remember that really stuck out to you on TV that you witnessed, a historical something-or-other? DH: No. RS: Because you were outside. DH: I was outside. MH: I remember being at my Grandpa Watson’s and there was something going on about the moon and the people, but I didn’t, at the time, realize what it was. RS: Realize what was going on. MH: Yeah, and I remember the president, whoever the president was, talking on there about it. But then other historical things I remember Nixon when he left, waving and getting on that plane. Also, because I was interrupted, Sonny and Cher. That was my favorite show. Yeah, but the show that actually IS on TV, you know at nighttime. It wasn’t in syndication was Sonny and Cher. RS: It was Sonny and Cher. MH: But I remember that and then Ronald Reagan. I remember when he got shot. RS: Oh! MH: Were we married yet then? RS: You would have been. MH: That happened in ’81, didn’t it? In January or something or ’81 [March 30, 1981]? It happened around the time we got married, because we got married in January of ’81. RS: Okay, so, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or was it more, did your mom or grandma have remedies or whatever that DH: Just grandma. RS: Just grandma. DH: As far as if I had a tooth ache or anything, I remember just dad taking me to Okmulgee or mom just pull it out, you know. That was it. But I never, as far as sickness, I don’t remember going to the doctor. Any broken bones or cuts or anything. RS: So, you never really had any sort of major illnesses or, I don’t know, anything that you encountered within your family? Just pretty much handled everything at home? DH: Just relied on grandma. RS: Did she have particular remedies that she concocted or do you remember? DH: The one thing I know mom still carried on was she would fix an ear ache. RS: And how would she do that? DH: She would get the fat from a skunk. MH: That’s what I was fixing to say, skunk oil. DH: Made grease out of it and drop in your ear. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: Actually, I have my cousins call me, probably a couple years ago and asked me if mom was still doing that. I swear she had, she could heal you from anything. Grandma lived to be 91. RS: Well, I had done an interview with, I didn’t do an interview, excuse me. I worked on a, we had received some cassette tapes from the library. They were old, and one of them that I worked on was Winey Harjo, and I don’t remember how old she was at the time of the interview. I think she was in her 90’s, but she talked about some really interesting remedies and stuff that they did. I think she was born maybe in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. I mean she was, because the tapes were old, and she was old on the tapes, but I thought it was super interesting, the things that they used just around them to heal, like different things off of trees. It was pretty neat to listen to. MH: They have medicine that they use for the ceremonials, but then there’s like, I know that his mom would say that’s, that there is the women’s medicine. We had some growing down by the pond. And then she told us what she could do with that helps arthritis and things like that. RS: I need some of that. That’s interesting. So, how was medical care for you? I’m guessing you probably just had a regular doctor? MH: I don’t really remember having to go to the doctor. I remember being back here it seemed like I probably seen Dr. Krug for something one time. RS: Okay. MH: And I don’t really remember seeing a doctor in California. RS: Alright, and then, so do you remember as a child what you wanted to be when you grew up? DH: Not really. Not until I started going to seventh, eighth grade, ninth grade, I wanted to be the first Creek to play in the NBA. RS: Really?! Well, that’s cool! DH: My idol was Spud Webb. RS: Okay. DH: Because he was only 5’7. RS: Well, that’s neat. What about you, Monica? MH: I don’t ever remember wanting to do anything. I don’t know why, but I don’t ever remember saying I want to go to work. RS: Or to be a particular anything whenever you grew up? MH: I mean when I was 16 after I had ShaRee, after we had a baby, then I was like I think I want to be a nurse someday. RS: Right. Well, so, I know that you had an interesting start in life, and I would like for you to tell us about that. I know you got together young and you were, had a baby young, can you tell us about that and your start together in life? So, you met him in eighth grade. MH: And we got married, we were in the tenth grade. RS: Got married in the tenth grade. MH: He went to work for, was it Manpower? Something like that. DH: Mm-hmm. Through Creek Nation. And I was, worked at the senior citizen in Okemah [Oklahoma]. Which I delivered the food to the elders. And I was just their maintenance guy. I mowed the lawn, do whatever they needed. RS: And this was at 16, 17? MH: Sixteen. RS: Okay. DH: When I got through, I mean I finished everything, and I asked them what they need, and well, they had me quilting. I was quilting and visiting with the elders there. Some elderly Creek citizens I knew would speak to me in Creek, and, so, I made conversation with them just watch them play dominoes and do whatever. And then they had me doing ceramics, pottery. RS: You were doing all kinds of things. DH: I just whatever they needed me to do. MH: That was January until June, because we got an apartment, one of the Creek Nation apartments. RS: But, so, you met in eighth grade. You got married in tenth grade because you were pregnant with ShaRee. Okay, and then so he was doing that. You were staying home? You both dropped out of school, right? Okay. And, so then, pick up from there. MH: Oh, you want me to tell the awkward part about how we didn’t live together or? RS: Yeah, I mean. MH: I mean it’s really strange. RS: No, I want, because I remember you, when we talked before, you telling me about that, so, yes. MH: Mom said we could get married, but we couldn’t live together until David had a job and could afford to have us a place to live. And, so, which, basically, what it is, is your pregnant back in the day. You need to be married, but I’m not really ready for you to be married and be out of the house. RS: Right. MH: I still want you to be my kid. So, he would come over in the evening. Then he’d say good-bye. He’d go to his mom’s house. Then he’d get up and go to work. Then he’d come back the next day. That’s what we did until June, and we got an apartment at, I guess he must have put it in for Creek Nation housing, and they had apartments there, and he was working in Okemah [Oklahoma]. And, so, we’d go down there, and I mean, we don’t have anything except for wedding gifts and, and I had my old stereo and my little pink thing of records, which I still have. And take what little stuff we have down there, but I’m like crying. I’m just, I don’t want to live down there. RS: So, that was in Okemah [Oklahoma]? MH: Yes. Seemed a long ways at the time. RS: Right. MH: And not to be by my mom, and I don’t know any of these people and they were strangers. RS: So, were you pregnant at the time or did you already have ShaRee? MH: No, I’m pregnant. RS: Pregnant, okay. MH: And, so, we move our little stuff and we get back, and my grandpa Doug calls. My mom’s dad. And he works at John Cassady (ph), he’s kind of up there at John Cassady (ph), and he called. And it’s not like mom had called him or anything, because we didn’t have cell phones back then, and we just walked in the door, so he called out of the blue and told David there was a welder’s helper job available. And would he want to come to that. Would he want to come apply for it. And, so, David went over there and got that job and we went and got all our little stuff from Okemah [Oklahoma], and ten days later we had an apartment in Stroud [Oklahoma]. June 10th was the first time that we lived together, and so my aunt had told us, Gail, you guys, she didn’t want us to get married. She said you’re not going to even be able to afford pop. She was trying to be on a teenage level, saying you can’t even drink pop. You know, you won’t be able to afford pop and all that. So, when we got married, and we got our little apartment, we bought Kool-Aid and sugar because I knew we couldn’t afford pop. So, they would go to work. RS: Because you were told you couldn’t afford pop. MH: Yes, they’d have Kool-Aid. We’d fix supper, do the dishes. We’d drink our Kool-Aid and eat our Cheez-Its and we’d play cards until we saved up and got an Atari. And then we could play Atari after he got home from work. And, then, once we got ShaRee, I’d feed her, his turn I’d give him the baby and the bottle and then I would play Atari, just back and forth. That’s what we did. We went to stomp dance on the weekends and church on Sunday. RS: And this, and so, at this time you guys were, what, probably seventeen when she was born? MH: No, we were sixteen. RS: You were still sixteen. MH: Yes. RS: Oh, my goodness. MH: He turned sixteen in November and I turned sixteen in December, and we got married in January. RS: So, looking back at that and how you guys made it through that, and you know, obviously, you know that’s not, there’s not a lot of success stories from starting off like that. What type of lessons did you learn from your life together starting out in that way? What lessons did you take away from that do you think? MH: Well, we got saved the next year when we were seventeen and started going to church. RS: And you feel like that made a huge difference in your? MH: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nothing would be like this if it wasn’t for the Lord, and you’re married for life. I mean, that wasn’t even an option. You know, my mom and dad had been divorced. That just wasn’t an option. And I really think because we were so young, we grew up together, and so we liked the same things and learned the same things at the same time. DH: Even though we are opposite. MH: Yeah. RS: Right, right! MH: Sometimes it’s like we are brother and sister because we argue, not argue, but like, you know just that kind of little thing sometimes it’s a sister, brother thing. It’s kind of weird though. RS: So, did you have any rough, rough periods since you started off so young together or did you, were you just committed to each other and determined to make it work? MH: I don’t remember any rough or any problems other than, I mean, we worried probably about finances, but we never missed a bill or, because my mom said you pay all your bills, even if you can’t buy groceries, you pay your bills. And, so, that was a big thing was to our bills. RS: That’s a lesson that a lot people these days need to learn. MH: We may eat bologna, which I like bologna and Little Debbie snacks and stuff like that. And I sewed a lot. I sewed our clothes. DH: Not our clothes, the girls. MH: Yeah, I didn’t sew your clothes. Not then. I do now, but you would. I remember the first time we went to Anchor and got a hamburger and French fries and brought it home. I felt so, you know when you go and make a big purchase and you kind of worried that you shouldn’t have done that? RS: Like remorse? MH: That’s what that hamburger and French fries did. Yes! Just for that, because we didn’t do that. We didn’t spend money like that. You’re making four dollars and something and hour, so you have all these things you’ve got to pay for. RS: Right. MH: But I remember that. DH: Hamburger did taste good. RS: Oh, I bet! Okay, so tell me the names of your children, their names and their birthdates. MH: ShaRee Brooke Hill, June 20, 1981. RS: Okay. MH: ShaLae Bree Hill [Shaw], July 21, 1982. ShaVon Britt Hill [Agee], March 14, 1986. RS: And how many grandchildren do you guys have? MH & ; amp ; DH: Seven. MH: But we have two great niece and great nephew that ShaRee is raising. RS: Okay, all right. I know we talked a little bit before because of the way your life started out, you guys had dropped out of school, but you both went and got your GED later. You got yours first, was that right? DH: Mm-hmm. RS: And then you went into DH: No! MH: Yes, you got yours first. RS: The aerospace industry and you told me you went. MH: It’s kind of that competition thing. Oh, he got a GED. Well, I’m going to go get my GED. And I only missed on problem on my math, and that’s the thing they said no one’s never done that before. DH: Well, I will say that she can read the day before whatever test and knock it out. RS: And knock it out of the park. DH: But me, probably RS: Little more studying? DH: Two or three months. RS: Okay, I mean, I guess I want to make sure that it is, you know, like I said, with the way that you started out, I feel like you guys are an absolute success story from how you raised your kids to you both ended up getting your GED’s to you had, what, about a 30-year career in the aerospace industry? You became, Monica, you became a nurse, which tell me about that, getting your RN. MH: Well, from the time that I had ShaRee, I had, which I thought was a nurse was Beverly, when I was in labor and delivery, and I just loved her. Later, I found out she was a nurse aide, so I didn’t even have to go to school to be a nurse, but anyway, so I thought if I’m ever going to go to work, that’s what I want to be. And, so, that’s what I thought when I got my GED. When my mom, when the oil field went bad, so mom needed to do something else, and so, we decided we were going to go to nursing school. RS: So, you went to nursing school with your mother? MH: Yeah, we went to the Tulsa Community College at the time. And, now, I may have told you the first day that we went, and so I took fifteen hours because to get the BIA grant, I had to take fifteen and mom just took twelve. So, when I get home, I never heard of a syllabus, and I thought fifteen hours, that’s nothing. I mean, that’s three days, five days a week. We go to school six or seven, so I’m thinking of normal school. RS: Right. MH: So, I get home, and they have these syllabuses and they tell you everything that you’re going to do, all these book reports, all these oral reports you’re going to give in the class. On each one of those classes, and it was just overwhelming, and I was crying, and I was RS: What have I gotten myself into? MH: Yeah, I was yelling at the couch praying asking Lord, why did you let me do this? And, then, I knew I had to because my mom couldn’t drive to Tulsa all the time for it. And I remember the Swan’s man coming and I was crying when he got there. But, anyway, had it not been for mom, I don’t know that I would have done it, because I still had three little girls. They were in school and stuff like that. And then I also say it has a lot to do with my aunt. Because my aunt, her whole life was about her daughter’s basketball and her school. And, so I thought some day when we don’t have any kids, I don’t want to be where I don’t have anything of my own. RS: Right. MH: So, I’ll do that. So, when I went to school to become a nurse, I wasn’t really going to go to work then. It don’t really work like that because you need to work after became a nurse, so that’s how all that happened. Now, David, he got his GED just to have it, because they were offering it. And, then, later, because he worked at John Cassady (ph) and then he went to work for Clyde McGuire to operate the pulling unit. Clyde was really very good to him. He was like a dad to David. He went to church with us, and ended up being our pastor. But when the oil field went bad, he still kept David working welding and making stuff, you know, to make sure he had forty hours. David wanted to do something different. He was interested in the aeronautics and stuff, and so, he started going to school. Was that at Tulsa Air Park? Was that what it was called at the time? RS: Is that called something different now? Or is it dissolved? DH & ; amp ; MH: I don’t know. RS: Don’t know? Okay. I wasn’t sure because I wasn’t familiar with that actual name. I didn’t know if it was like Tulsa Junior College turned into Tulsa Community College. MH: I didn’t know if Tulsa Air Park is now Tulsa Technology Center? DH: I don’t know. MH: That’s what I was kind of thinking, but I don’t know for sure. RS: Well, that’s actually something I can look up later. So, then from the oil field, David, you got into the aerospace industry, and you started at Nordam. Is that correct? Can you tell us a little bit about that? DH: I started, I don’t really want to say, at the very bottom, but just cleaning parts and getting them prepped for paint. And afterwards, I just, I was the type, especially learned the work habits that John Cassady (ph) and Clyde McGuire, you know, just hurry up and get the job done. Go to the next one. So, when I got there, I did the same thing. Just made sure all the parts were clean, so I was running out of parts. So, they started showing me how to, which I already knew how to drill, install rivets and stuff like that, and I just kept on learning. RS: Started moving up? DH: Yeah. RS: Did you enjoy the aerospace industry? DH: Yeah. I did. RS: And, was it during that time, that you decided to run for the council? Were you at Nordam? DH: Yeah, yes, I was at Nordam, and also, before that, I got on the school board at Depew. RS: Oh, okay. DH: So, I was doing that. MH: And the business board at Bristow Community Center, because it was like nineteen years before he from the time he started, he started at Nordam in ’89 and didn’t get on the council until 2008. DH: Yeah, in between then we started going to the Bristow Indian Community Center. And once I started, I don’t know, probably what a year, not even a year, I knew there was an election coming up, because our former representative, which was George Tiger and Roger Barnett would report to us on what the Nation was doing. I never really was involved with Creek Nation being at that age. Once they started coming, I was kind of interested what they were doing. RS: Piqued your interest. DH: I just kind of asked them, so what all do you got to do? Well, the election is coming up. You ought to run. I didn’t have a clue anything about the government side. RS: How old were you at that time when you decided to run for council? MH: Forty-three. RS: And you didn’t really even know what you were getting into, but you felt led to run? Was it because of them? MH: Well, he was on the business board for the community, so he was doing, like you have Creek Nation then you have your different communities, so he was already at that small side of the community and the casino and that, and so then it was just kind of bigger picture that you would take all of that Creek. DH: I loved what I was doing on the board. I wanted to do what I can for the school board for the school, for the students, for the teachers. And I figured just bigger picture here on Creek Nation side. You know, I wanted to help our district was Bristow, everyone in Creek District. I wanted to help the citizens. So, that’s what RS: What inspired you. Okay, and then I know when I was talking to Jason [Jason Salsman], he, well, so, Jason feels like you’re very well-respected and that you held a lot of peer-chosen positions within the council. Is that correct? DH: Once I got on the council, yeah. There was, you serve on different committees. So, I kind of learned from those that served on committee. One was former chief, Bill Fife. Learned a lot from him. I learned quite a bit from them as I got nominated to be like the Sargeant at Arms. I did that for two consecutive terms. Then I went, I was appointed as Second Speaker to two terms consecutive back-to-back. That was interesting. Give you a little bit more responsibility. RS: And I’m guessing you enjoyed that? DH: Yeah. RS: Okay. Was it just then, maybe, like a natural evolution for you to decide to run for Chief? Or what was the deciding factor to push you to want to run for Chief? DH: I was, actually, asked to run four years before I did. RS: Really? DH: But, you know, I just felt like I wasn’t ready. You always get that feeling and, plus, we just prayed a lot. Is this the right thing to do? So, I just decided to wait four years and see how it goes. RS: And, so, did you learn more, have more positions during that four years that helped you? DH: That’s when I became Second Speaker. RS: Okay. DH: [Indecipherable] Kind of knew more of the government side business. RS: Right. I’m sorry. So, what accomplishments are you most proud of during your time as chief? As far as with the Muscogee (Creek) Nation? What things have you accomplished that you’re the most proud of? Because I know that Jason had told me your first year was pretty rough because there was Covid, I think McGirt, you had a ransomware attack, and he said it was just a matter of like, you felt like you were putting out fires for the first year, and it was really hard to accomplish anything, but I know, since then, he told me some things that. MH: You can tell him and remind him. I said let her tell you, so she can remind you. DH: Yeah. I mean, you don’t realize a lot of stuff that happened. Just like I said, during the Covid years, the first January/February, I think, we was first brought to our awareness of Covid. Then all that happened. I think it was March 13th when I done the, declared natural, whatever you call it. Executive order that, then the ruling come out Supreme Court, I mean, from there you just get the domino effect, because Covid, now I’m worried about the elderly getting sick. Because we lost a lot in the last probably two years, first year of Covid, probably, approximately two hundred. You know, those were the elders, most fluent speakers, most people that knew tradition, cultural and history. We lost all that. Pastors. RS: Devastating. I mean that’s devastating. DH: But, you know, we still had to conduct business, so I had that going. Trying to decide what to do and try to get all my cabinet in place. RS: So, I feel like it was, maybe, a good thing that you waited the four years and got more prepared, because you were pretty much thrown into the fire whenever you started. DH: That’s one of the things, you know, during other interviews, the former chief. There wasn’t a play book in front of me to say, here’s what you do during Covid years. RS: Right. DH: Here’s what you do in supreme court. I mean, we just had to start from scratch. And it was a learning curve because I couldn’t make all the decision, so I had to appoint people whose best in that field. As far as [indecipherable] in the health division. You know, that was their first time, too. So, there’s nights we talked to each other 10, 11, 12, midnight. What are we doing to do? First thing is trying to take care of the people. But also, run the business side, too, so my former Chief of Staff and Second Chief, all of us, we had to sit down and try to create a plan. What do we do now? We just started gradually, plus, you know, we are working with some of the National Council reps. There was some that, even though I served with them, some for twelve years, eight years, four years, and they more of my heart. I want to do what’s best for the nation. But you still had a couple of them that would vote no against me on anything. Try to stop the progress of what we was doing, but we just had to do a work around. MH: Their chief didn’t win, so they DH: They retained their seats. So, once they do that, they’re upset. RS: Right. DH: But we had to do a work around. We found ways to still be productive on how to run business. RS: I know Jason [Jason Salsman] had mentioned that one of the, I guess, bigger accomplishments was the brand-new complex. That was something that had carried through several terms of other chiefs, but that you guys made it happen. DH: Every administration always have a master plan of what they’re going to do. I think Chief Ellis [A.D. Ellis] done it. Chief Tiger [George Phillip Tiger] did it. And Chief Floyd [James R. Floyd] did it, but they always done their own. But I just took the one that Chief Floyd had, and I said, we just need to do it. RS: Right. DH: And when I had my cabinet in there, it’s kind of fun. They always tell people that I had first couple of cabinet meetings that we’re sitting in, they would always ask me questions. Well, how do we, what do you want to do, Chief? And I said, well, what do you mean? So, they’ll bring the issues of concerns or how to move forward. I said, all right, I’ll let you know the end of the day. So, I asked my former Chief of Staff, Greg Anderson, I said why are they asking me? I said, I’m used to having, I don’t want to say knowledge or leadership at Nordam, but I said, you know if I did this at Nordam, I said, they would ask you. They would ask you. That’s why I hired you for this position. RS: Right. DH: I said, if I’m having to tell them every day what to do, I said, I don’t need them. I said, why is it like that? He said, well, he said that’s how the former administration was. Everything had to go through him. I said, well, I’m not like that. So, they come back the next meeting. RS: So, basically, you wanted to be able to delegate and trust them to handle, to make those decisions. DH: That’s kind of how I approached them. Right before the meeting, or kind of midway through the meeting, giving me the same answers. Well, you know, what do you think? I said, I’m buying every one of y’all a Nike shirt. I said do y’all know what that Nike shirt slogan is? They all looked and said Just Do It. RS: Just do it! DH: I said that’s just kind of the way Ray Siegfried, who I consider my mentor at Nordam. You know, we gonna make mistakes. We gonna learn by our mistakes, but we just grow from that. And that’s what I told them. So, if one of them would sit over here next to me and ask question, I said, what shoes you got on? They would know and just look. I said, okay. RS: I like it. DH: So, that’s kind of the way we started out, but again, it’s one of the situations where you have to put people in there that you trust. RS: Right. DH: I have to trust them as much as they’re going to trust me. And there’s some that had left, but I feel like I have a good solid team. RS: You have a good team. DH: And I told them we got four years to make a big impact. Even though we did the last two years, you know the first two years was tough. But it also, during the Covid years, I will say, that it showed, I don’t want to say weakness, but improvement. Like our IT. Everything was going to Zoom, so our technology, we had to redo, we had to redo all that. Everything was Zoom now, you know. Couldn’t meet in person. I’m still dressed like this coming into work even though we always tease about that, but there’s just a change of culture. At Nordam I tried to bring what I learned. And if you ever work in tribal government, that is hard. You pretty much figure 50-60% are all related, so if you’re in the HR department, that’s going to be tough, because you’re going to have to, and most of them probably have individuals that are related in their department that you have to write up. You’re going to have to fire. RS: Right. DH: And it’s hard for them. We tried to implement new stuff what we need to do. And it’s just a mind thing. Well, that’s the way it’s always been. And I said I’ve heard that at Nordam, because I try to use it when we implement new technology or new software. It took me a while to get used to it, because I hated it. I’m used to this. RS: Right. DH: Not knowing that in the future, running it and the new system is going to be better. RS: Better. DH: And that was hard to implement the first couple of years. They finally got used to it, though. RS: Well, that’s good. And a couple of other things, I know that Jason [Jason Salsman] had mentioned that you were responsible for maternity leave for DH: Yeah, I listened to one of my employees. Whitney, she’s one of my legislative clerks. She writes all the laws, the stuff that I need, we need to implement, and she brought that to my attention. Same thing, I said, you think that’s a good idea? She said, yeah. I said, well, do the research. So, actually, she’s the one that brought it forth, and we sat down and talked about it. She appreciated it. She said you’re the first, she said I brought this up to the last two administrations. I said, well, I’m here to make it better. My door is always open, so that was one of the, basically, one of the first things we did in office. RS: Well, I know one thing that Jason [Salsman] kept kind of saying over and over is your compassion, caring about the people, that sometimes it’s what can the position do for me versus what can I do for the people, and that you’re not like that. You’re there to help the people. And I think it’s pretty evident by your leadership and how everyone speaks of you that I’ve talked to. And Jason just thinks you’re wonderful, and so from that, we’ll transition into some of your accolades. I saw where you were Time Magazine’s one of 2020’s most 100 Most Influential People. Can you tell me about that? DH: That was, didn’t know what to think. I received that email, and I forwarded it to Jason [Salsman], and I said look at this. Is this legit? I said, I don’t know, why? Why me? MH: No, you sent it to me. DH: I sent it to you and Jason [Salsman]. MH: And what’d I say? DH: I don’t know. MH: It’s a scam! Do not respond. It’s a scam! It’s not true. DH: So, Jason [Salsman] called them, and he come running back in the office and said, Chief, he said that is for real! I said, why? I mean, why me? He said, I don’t know. So, we and come to find out, Sharice Davids, the councilwoman from Kansas had submitted the letter to Time Magazine. RS: Oh! DH: And that’s how it come about. But it was strange. I never expected that. RS: So, what did that entail, as far as, was there like a ceremony or anything? DH: Usually there is, but there was Covid. RS: Oh, shoot! It was, wasn’t it?! DH: It only showed on TV. MH: They usually have a gala and everything, but not that year. RS: Oh, man! MH: Did get invited the next year was it? DH: Next year, two years afterwards. MH: Yeah, you’ve been invited, I guess, every year, every June to come to their thing in New York. We went one time. RS: I mean, that’s quite, that’s quite an honor, I mean. DH: And it’s to meet the people, I never would expect it. Both of us. Sometimes just me, you know. Bill Gates was there. RS: Jason [Salsman] had mentioned that, that it was kind of like sitting there thinking DH: We’re sitting in the front row. RS: Like what in the world?! DH: He went with us. Because I could only invite one. And I said, hey, I need my PR to come with me, so I brought Jason [Salsman] with us. That’s where the girls got mad. He got to go and they didn’t. I had to give all the credit to Jason, too. Because we was on Time Magazine. Nightline. They came and did an episode. They stayed with me for a whole week. Went down to mom’s. They interviewed, we were sitting, me and my brothers and with mom. They said just five, ten minutes, whatever. Just ask her a question about, they just want to hear her speak in the language. So, we asked her what happened on Trail of Tears. Can you tell us who, do you remember? And she did mention her grandmother telling stories of what happened. And she probably went twenty minutes. Finally had to stop her. Hey that’s good enough. After we got through it, that’s where I mentioned earlier, I asked my brother, Sammy, I said I kind of like a little bit of that what mom was saying in Creek. I said, what did she say? He said, I don’t know. She spoke in the old language. So, we asked our sisters, you know, do y’all know what mom said? Said no, she went back in the old language. So, none of us, they’re supposed to send me a copy of with what mom said, but no one. RS: So, nobody even knows what she said? DH: Huh-mm. RS: Oh, shoot! DH: Part of it, she did mention, from what I understand about grandma, great-grandma, I guess walked on the Trail of Tears kind of in the weather and stuff like that is about all I can catch. RS: All you can get out of it. DH: Just that. MH: It’s recorded though. DH: National Geographic. MH: Oh, that was special. DH: They had me at River Spirit [Casino], which Monica and Jason went. They took photos, and we met the other four tribes, Seminole, Choctaw, Cherokee and Chickasaw tribal leaders at Oklahoma City. And we’re all taking pictures. They said they’ll be 2023. Supposed to come out the summer before. It finally came out 2022. MH: I can’t remember. I just know that the other chiefs weren’t in it. It was only him. DH: Yeah, when it come out, it only showed me. But, you know, things like that, I never dreamed. Because I do have a book, 1973, I believe, National Geographic. There is photos of our ceremonial ground, and there’s a picture of my dad and a lot of the ceremonial ground men members doing the feather dance. There was a picture of dad in there. RS: Oh! That’s neat! MH: So, it was pretty neat that he had that with his dad, and then all these years later, they had him. RS: SO special! DH: I think Jason [Salsman] posted that on our Facebook page. RS: On your Facebook. MH: Just like when Charley Coker was fought against the allotment fought for that reservation, you know, and then DH: 113 years later, 20/20 when I’m in office, that’s when the supreme court ruling come out. RS: Right. Well, I have to say, just from what I know of you, that you seem like a very low key individual and that, I guess, all of the spotlight might be kind of uncomfortable for you or that’s not where you’re most comfortable at is in the spotlight, that you’re there to do a job and take care of your people and. DH: That’s what I thought. Even our hotel at the casino, when me and Monica, they had to have a room, the top floor is just designated for me. MH: Not the whole top floor, but DH: Well, it is almost. MH: It’s like a 2000 square foot. DH: It’s the very end. The king suite. I don’t know why, oh, it’s the Chief’s Suite. RS: The Chief’s Suite. Well, that makes sense. DH: So, we, it would take probably me and Monica thirty minutes just to get to our room, because everyone wants to stop and, you know, they want to shake hands, talk. Because I talk to all the employees. RS: Right. DH: Even when we get through, me and Monica, we’ll walk down and I get a cup of coffee and just walk the whole floor. MH: It took us two hours, one time, from the elevator to the door. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: Because people want to talk. They just want to talk. RS: Right. DH: And I heard one comment from one of the employees had told one of the managers, said he just stopped and talked and we talked about OU football. He said I never been able to talk to anyone like that, that just RS: Because they don’t expect you to be a regular guy, I guess, because you’re the Chief. DH: That’s even going out of state. Some different conferences that Monica goes with me. I get approached by other tribal leaders from other tribes. I mean, they just, what’s happened with the supreme court ruling really, like I said, the spotlight. It’s just not me. RS: Have you gotten more comfortable with in that position of being in the spotlight? Because being a low-key kind of quiet, seems to me, individual that would be, I guess it just goes with the territory? MH: I think he’s more comfortable. DH: Yeah. MH: I’m more comfortable. I don’t have to worry as much what he’s going to say or do. I’m like, oh gosh…oh Lord help him, oh Lord help him. DH: She’ll be back there saying MH: Now I’ve got to cut him off. DH: You know, I got invited to different things in D.C. I can’t remember that one event, but I was the first tribal leader to attend. It was like for the republican MH: It was all the supreme court judges. DH: Yeah, it was all the supreme court judges. All the different people congress and senators at this event. And here I am, somebody from Gypsy, Oklahoma. I’m just sitting there. The lady that invited me, she’s an attorney. So, I’m getting ready, and Monica’s just teasing, she said, you know I’m helping my husband get ready for his date. You know, she comes to pick me up. MH: I went down there and took a picture of them. She kept sending DH: Kind of like a prom date, you know. MH: She kept sending me pictures. I guess she was just having him meet everybody because she’d send a picture of him and this judge and him and this judge and him and DH: And I asked for a cup of coffee. It was like a little tea cup. I took a picture of that and said, look what I’m drinking, you know. Just things that I never would have dreamed would be happening. RS: Right. Well, I mean, that’s why I say I feel like you’re a, both, like a self-made success story from start to finish. And your story is MH: Oh, I don’t know about that, but just RS: It’s amazing! MH: Strange opportunities and things happen that you’re not expecting or even think about, like those things that those awards and things and then that leads to this, and you meet this person or this person, and we went up there to a play, one of our citizens did a play on the far end, and we went to watch that. And, so, we go to dinner first with these people and this, one of the judges are there, and they sit me beside him, and I’m like oh no, put David by him, and they said no they’re doing man, woman and our AG walks in. Well, sit her by him, so that they can talk law stuff. I don’t know about talking law stuff. They said, no, that’s why we want you there. So, he had already talked to David and met David and seen him play basketball. He was in basketball, and so, he tells me about how David, well some things I’m not supposed to tell, but anyway he played basketball at this place and how good he was. He says people tell me all the time that they can play basketball and they’ll take their jackets off. He said he just shot in his suit and zoom, zoom, zoom. He said, so tell me, where’d you guys meet? And I was like, at a basketball game. I mean, who would think I’d be sitting next to a supreme court judge talking about basketball. RS: Basketball. Yeah, from Gypsy, Oklahoma. You know. DH: Then we got to go to California and walk the red carpet. MH: Oh! Reservation Dogs. Yeah. DH: The Reservation Dogs. RS: Oh, yeah! DH: They did their premier, and me and Monica and [indecipherable] and his wife are just walking up to the red carpet, and all them young actors, D’Pharaoh [D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai] MH: Now we didn’t know it was such a big thing. I mean, they came and had a dinner thing and met them, you know, D’Pharaoh, he thinks David, he’s just, oh, I’ve always wanted to meet you. And I’m thinking, he don’t even know him. But anyway, oh I wanted to meet you, too! But I guess he’d heard about him. So, when we go to do that, but we didn’t know it was such a big thing until we got to Hollywood, and there’s like all these different bulletin boards. DH: Signs, billboards. MH: And on the subway, I mean, the buses and everything, they’re thing, I’m like, well, this must be a bigger thing than I realized. We’re walking down the sidewalk and they’re doing pictures with that screen thing behind it. He sees David and he starts jumping up and down and yelling, probably about a half a block away, Chief, Chief, Chief! And, so, he’s in the picture, when they put it on Nightline, they take the picture of the video of David there with him talking. I’m thinking, they think he’s part of them. He is NOT. Someone thought he was Sterlin [Sterlin Harjo], and I was like, no. Look at him. They think he’s RS: So, on that same line, because I personally want to know, how did you meet Mo [Mo Brings Plenty] from Yellowstone? Because I’ve actually seen him at the basketball games, which is, you know, an odd, it’s cool, but I love him on Yellowstone, and then I know he’s hung around here some with you. So, how did you end up meeting him? DH: It was MH: Rez at Las Vegas. DH: Well, I didn’t personally know him then. MH: Well, that’s the first time DH: I saw him because they interviewed him saying that he’s going to run for president, because we was eating and having lunch. And afterwards, I got a call from another tribal leader, said hey, I got Mr. Mo Brings Plenty wants to talk to you, Chief. I said, okay. I didn’t know who he was. We didn’t watch Yellowstone, so I didn’t know he was an actor. Said, okay. Said you got his number? So, we call, and he said we are doing a movie of Bass Reeves. He said we want to keep it authentic. He said I’m looking for someone that can speak the language and also write, a good teacher. I said, okay. I said, well, we are actually having our intertribal meeting here at River Spirit [Casino] with the five tribes if you want to come. So, he shows up. MH: And I’m thinking the guy that we seen that’s going to run for president. DH: So, I told Monica. So, he showed up. I got him a room and everything. He walked down with us, and all the women just went crazy. And me and Monica saying who is this guy? Finally got to talk to him and he was standing there, and I said, we’re actually having our ribbon dance at our ceremonial ground if you want to come. He said, yeah, I’ll come with you. So, we go down and he’s sitting with mom and he eats with us at our camp. RS: And are you still at this time not fully aware of who he is? DH: Oh, we are now. RS: You knew now, okay. I mean at the time that you invited him down to the dance and all that. DH: We just stayed close friends. RS: Yeah, well that’s so cool! DH: He actually had me wanted to know if I wanted to be in the movie Bass Reeves [Lawman: Bass Reeves], so me and Solomon did that. RS: Oh, okay. DH: I think it was Episode Two. [Inaudible] DH: About two seconds of fame. RS: That’s out now, isn’t it? DH: Mm-hmm. RS: Is it on Paramount? DH: I believe so. RS: Yeah. DH: Soloman, he stayed. He’s probably in eight, nine scenes. RS: Oh, wow. Well, how fun! MH: Came back after that dance that first time, back to the house. And I felt bad because everyone was all crazy, so finally I just said, Mo, we haven’t seen Yellowstone. My mom and sister tried to watch it, but they said it’s just too bad. And he said, yeah, it’s pretty bad sometimes. And he said that he, because you just go there and do your parts, and he doesn’t cuss. He doesn’t drink. And it’s really surprising, because you think actors are that. But he’s not, so. RS: Well, we love it. We love Yellowstone at our house. So, I was already a big fan of him, and then when I realized that, like you knew him, and Rick [Shaw] had said, oh yeah, Mo’s been down at David and Monica’s house, and I’m like, WHAT?! MH: We’ve done a lot of things together. He’s really special. DH: He come down to the festival. MH: And, Sara [Sarah Ann Haney-Brings Plenty], his wife is so sweet. DH: Yeah. They’re both. He wanted me to ride in a parade with him. MH: He did that and a meet and greet, but he ended up staying last year. He brought Cole [Cole Brings Plenty 8/18/1996-4/5/2024] with him. DH: He stayed Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the rodeo. He stayed at the rodeo, him and Sara, but Cole did a fashion show. Yeah, we just stayed close friends after that. He came to Hokte softball game, came to the basketball game…football game, the boys. MH: Yeah, came to the basketball game. RS: I know I had seen him at the basketball games whenever the girls were DH: He lives in Kansas, so. He feels like, because all his family are in South Dakota. RS: Oh, okay. DH: So, we’re kind close. RS: Extended family? DH: Yeah, he will just text back and forth, and calls me cuz. MH: David had went out the room during the festival. We were eating and he just started telling the people that was there at the from the first time that he met David, that he had a connection with him as if he was just like his family, and so, he’s just always felt that way. RS: Aw, well that’s neat. Well, it’s been quite a journey, I would say for you. DH: Oh, yeah. RS: For both of you. MH: We met some other guy, because I think we meet people that we don’t realize that DH: Who the they are. MH: Who they are or anything, so we were at festival and this guy comes up and he was doing movie, he’s a producer, I guess. We didn’t know, he was with another friend of ours that helped with our campaign that’s a model and actor. He’s been wanting to meet David and everyone said, he won’t meet you. He’s too busy. He don’t have time, you know. He came up to meet and greet, and so, we talked for an hour, and then RS: And who was this? DH: Shep MH: Yeah, John Shepherd (ph). DH: The one that’s doing the movie now that’s down here. RS: Oh, okay. OH! Okay. The one that’s on main right now? MH: Yeah. They text Saturday and said we’re filming today. Do you and David want to come down. I said, well, David is out on the mower and we’re doing our sovereignty day fireworks tonight. I’m doing all this cooking. I don’t know if I’ll have time to run down there or not, you know. I did get the [indecipherable] and seen where they were. I didn’t even know that’s where they were. RS: Right. MH: I said, but if y’all get done early, come eat. I’m cooking. Rick’s [Shaw] cooking, smoking some pork butt. DH: Cook out. MH: Yeah, and so, a little bit later that evening, they text and said, we’re on our way. So, they came to the house. They stayed until about 11, 11:30 and just visited and visited, and so, he’s a Christian. Mr. [indecipherable]. He did a lot of movies with a Billy Graham movies. RS: Okay. MH: And stuff, and so he’s doing this one. And I said, well, I told him about our church. And he said, I just might come down, and sure enough, Sunday morning, he showed up. DH: Showed up Sunday. MH: Then we went and ate at Los Arcos. RS: Well, how cool. MH: And then Monday night we had a, he met John and them are ambassador and his wife at our house. And I knew that they were, I thought it would be good if he was there with them, because they could really visit about some things. So, they did. We went to [indecipherable] DH: Documentary thing. MH: And he came there, too. So, when we got done, he said, well family, what’s next? What are we going to next? I said, well, if you’re still here next week, Sunday, come to church. Because he told the pastor, well, the pastor’s wife knew who he was, and so, when DH: I think she was googling him. MH: She had been watching, I guess, that movie stuff, and so she knew all kinds of stuff about him. So, she went up and visited him. So, that’s when I really found out about him was stuff that she had knew. RS: She had found. MH: So, anyway, he said there’s quite a few Christians on the set, and so, he was going to see if they wanted to come, too. But he hadn’t been to a church like that. In California, he said, you don’t have churches like that where people raise their hands and praise the Lord. And I kind of figured that. People out there that live like that, they write movies and stories about people like this, like us, so, I thought they probably would like to see the real people like us. RS: Right, right. MH: Then we don’t expect ever have anything to do with people like that, and we don’t know that they are people like that, so we just treat them like they are ours. Go to church with us! Come and eat come barbeque! RS: Well, I think that’s really neat. MH: I think it’s best to know people before they’re, that you don’t know that they’re famous. I don’t feel anything like that for Mo because I don’t know Mo as that. I just knew Mo as this, and so RS: Well, and I can’t say that I’m like a real star-struck person, either. I just like to know people, and like you say, that’s probably the best way to do it because, you know, you’ve gotten to be friends with them before they even, you realized, you know, who they are or what. MH: He’s just the best person, the best heart. About everybody. He cares about the natives, the native kids, but he cares about all kids and all races. He wants to get along with everybody. And everybody do things for each other. RS: Right. MH: Pull everybody together and make life better for everybody. DH: The other exciting thing I got to do was go to Harvard. MH: Oh, I forgot about that. RS: You went to Harvard? DH: Yeah, me and Jason [Salsman]. They interviewed us, speak to the classroom, so we get through, and we say we want you to sign a book. So, I went in and this actual book when the visitors come. What’s that prince’s wife? What’s her name? MH: Oh, um. Who’s the prince? RS: Kate? Kate Middleton? MH: Was it Kate Middleton? DH: Kate, yeah. RS: Kate Middleton? DH: Yeah, I signed right behind her. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: And I thought, what am I doing signing, you know at Harvard. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: It was just things like that. RS: Blows your mind. Yeah, that’s crazy. MH: Oh, and they did a documentary. I don’t know if you’ve heard about that. RS: I haven’t. MH: Bad Press. RS: The what? MH: Bad Press. So, when he was running for Chief, they wanted to know if they could follow us. They were following several of the candidates, you know. And I thought, I understood that it was about DH: Elections. MH: Yeah, native elections is what, tribal elections. So, they were with us a lot. Wherever we went, they went. Came to the house and helped us cook when we had our little get-togethers and stuff. And, so DH: Watch party. MH: Yeah, watch party. So, years later, it finally comes out, but at the same time during the election, they were also fighting for free press. We had a free press, but then the former chief decided that he wanted to put that back under the chief. So, that they had a little more control. So, they wrote legislation and David opposed it and fought it and they finally got it. Anyway, so, that was the was the fight during the election, too, because it had a lot to do with about them maybe not wanting some things to come out and stuff, so, after David is elected, they end up taking it to a, the constitution and making it an amendment in the constitution, because then whatever chief is there can’t change it. So, we did finally get free press. But, really, it made the story more about that about how it was. So, David has quite a bit of parts. We had to sign, I was really worried, they didn’t show me that much, but it’s funny, everybody RS: So, was it like a documentary? MH: It’s a documentary. Yeah. RS: And what’s it called? MH: Bad Press. RS: Bad Press. MH: Yeah, it won a lot of awards at, what’s that, that thing that they have, those DH: Journalism? MH: No, those RS: Like the, I think I know what you’re MH: Festivals, what is that one festival? RS: Yes. MH: Sundance! RS: Yes, Sundance. MH: It’s been all over. RS: Okay, that’s something else I’m going to have to look at. DH: Jason [Salsman] was there. He never seen it. And that was the first time Jason seen it there, but there’s some parts in there that I kind of wish they would have…I’m trying to do my campaign sign. That’s before I had my knee surgery. So, there’s sign all up and down the road, so I’m trying to find one because it’s gravel. They showed the whole thing! MH: It took forever! I was in the car. I was like I’m not getting out there where the camera is. It took him forever, but instead of just waiting, no they make you see all of everybody else’s signs and they do that. But they were showing what an underdog he was. RS: Right. MH: Because he was really and underdog. He’s getting in his little Honda vehicle and we’re doing this and then the other guy’s in one of those like spider vehicle, Batman-looking vehicles, and you know. RS: Do you ever just look at your life and go what in the world?! I mean, can you even believe where you’re at now? Or do you feel like you were destined to be where you are? DH: I don’t really look at it that way. RS: You don’t look at it that way? You’re just thankful for the journey? DH: Mm-hmm. MH: I think he just don’t have time to stop and think about it. DH: Yeah, probably. RS: Well, I think right now that probably is the case, because you are SO busy all the time. Well, as we wrap up this interview, I’m wondering do each of you, do you have any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations to draw from whether it be, you know, from a married perspective or a work perspective…do you have any general advice or wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? I want both of you to answer. MH: I’d have to think a while. I could really come up with something good if I thought a while. Number one is the Lord first. The Lord first and He will take of everything. Even when things look bleak, there’s a reason for it. You don’t know what it is, but it always works out, so I would say that. And care about other people, because that’s what David is, is a servant leader, and he has a heart for the people. Everyone said that. He has a heart for the…he does. And sometimes, they come before everybody else, but that’s okay, because we all got on board. The whole family got on board and knew that this is what this was going to be. I was, at first, I really…can’t we just stay on the council? I told a friend of ours, you know, Blaine was two when he got on the council. If he’s chief, Blaine will be out of high school by the time he’s done those first four years. And she said, yeah, but look he’s going to leave him a legacy, and I didn’t really see the legacy at the time, but then after he got in there and everything happened, it’s like oh yeah, this is a once in a lifetime thing that would ever happen to a chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation. But it’s mainly the whole family had to be ready to give and okay with it. RS: So, for you it’s the Lord first, to take care of other people. Is there anything else you want to add to that? MH: Yeah, when I was in nursing school, this is what our instructor said, the Lord is first. You are second, which I have a hard time with, but they said if you don’t take care of yourself, you’re not there to then help your family. RS: Right. MH: And so, I don’t always do that, but that’s what I tell people. RS: What about you, David? Do you have any wisdom to share? DH: I’m trying to think. Because some of the questions I was asked like, what would you change? Is there anything that you would change, you would have done differently? My decision was no. Because, you know after me and Monica got married and had ShaRee, I had some say I should have went back to school to play basketball. Well, if I did, we probably wouldn’t have had ShaLae. Probably wouldn’t have had ShaVon. And that’s, basically, what I told them. I said you’re going to come up in situations throughout, but you never question why it happened. Be hard for me to go back and change anything that happened or we’d never would run into things we are doing now. That’s one of my cabinet members had mentioned, he said you’re, you think before you make the decision, similar to Mekko at ceremonial ground. He said, because if you ask someone to make the decision right then or ceremonial ground [indecipherable], they would think about it and they will bring the members like on Sunday whenever they have their meeting. Each Sunday they talk about it. He said then he’ll make decision on what he feels best. He said, most Mekkos won’t make a quick decision. RS: Rash decision. DH: Yeah. And even I had to tell one attorney, she was an attorney for one of our ceremonial grounds. She was asked, well, we need to know decision [indecipherable] I finally had to call her, and I said, hey, you do remember how the ceremonial ground works? The chief would think about it. He would bring it to the citizens. He will bring to ground members, to the men. Then he will come back and make a decision. They said, so you’re similar to that. You kind of bring the traditional way with a lot of stuff you’re doing now. But I don’t know, just what Monica said. You do have to keep the Lord first. RS: Well, and I also think for when you’re talking about, would you change anything, MH: It might mess it up. RS: If you change something, you’re who you are because of where you came from, you know. And your life experiences, good and bad. DH: It’s like someone asked me before, if you had to go back in time, where would you like to go? I would definitely like to go back in time 1492 before Columbus came, you know, but then I said, I would like to go back when my great-grandpa, Charley Coker, was in this battle. Seeing the stuff I’ve seen now, I would have prevented it if I was with him. But we probably wouldn’t be here where we are at today. RS: Right. DH: So, I’d definitely like to see what would happen back in time, but RS: So, do you have any advice for from a different perspective of, say, maybe a family that started out like yours did with a teen pregnancy and a young marriage. Do you have any advice for, I guess, persevering through that situation, either of you? MH: First of all, I say, 1981 was very different from right now. RS: Right, yeah. DH: It is. I mean, it’s kind of hard to give an advice, because, like I said, it’s back then, it was totally different. RS: SO different. DH: Than what it is now of the way people see it compared to both generations. RS: Well, but, I mean to even persevere together, like you stayed together. I don’t think that MH: We didn’t know anything different. RS: The commitment factor, I guess, is something that I feel kind of lacks in today’s world. DH: And we hate to fail, I mean, even our daughters are the same way. RS: Right. DH: You hate to fail of doing something, and I guess that’s part of it, too. RS: You’re driven. DH: We don’t want to fail. RS: You’re driven to succeed. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your time and your lives with me today. Please know this interview will become an important part of our ongoing oral history archive at the museum. And on behalf of the Bristow Historical Society, we thank you very much for your time. DH & ; amp ; MH: Thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
David Hill
Description
An account of the resource
David and Monica talk about their early life together, their family, their careers and what their life has been like during David’s terms as Principal Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0059
Date
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2024/7/12
Format
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audio
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/f02ab853d2200bc0dbf8ceec62b678e3.jpg
8e4494c3dbae205de030127b01d589e9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Mike Newell
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0058_Mike_Newell.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 July 2, 2024 OHP-0058 Mike Newell OHP-0058 00:00:00 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Mike Newell Regan Siler 1.0:|27(11)|48(7)|83(11)|107(17)|128(7)|157(12)|180(11)|208(15)|231(11)|258(6)|286(17)|308(12)|331(5)|350(16)|371(17)|392(8)|413(12)|436(13)|456(5)|484(4)|511(10)|538(10)|565(4)|583(16)|605(12)|626(18)|654(3)|675(3)|695(5)|717(14)|734(11)|753(3)|772(12)|785(7)|809(7)|826(12)|854(11)|880(8)|898(6)|926(16)|946(3)|981(3)|1000(4)|1021(6)|1045(16)|1062(16)|1080(8)|1090(10)|1109(7)|1124(10)|1144(4)|1162(6)|1177(6)|1201(13)|1212(11)|1230(5)|1246(7)|1266(7)|1285(16)|1297(4)|1311(7)|1341(7)|1356(6)|1369(16)|1389(12)|1409(16)|1431(4)|1451(3)|1466(20)|1480(11)|1500(3)|1509(12)|1520(10)|1534(7)|1555(13)|1573(13)|1604(5)|1615(5)|1634(12)|1665(4)|1685(8)|1696(9)|1711(3)|1726(4)|1750(17)|1776(4)|1792(14)|1803(13)|1826(17)|1848(16)|1856(10)|1869(4)|1891(11)|1912(12)|1929(4)|1938(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0058 Newell, Mike.mp4 Other audio 1 Early Life and Family RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 2, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Mike Newell at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area, and maybe, if we’re lucky, sing us a tune. Can you please tell us your full name?
 ; 
 ; MN: Michael Newell.
 ; Mike Newell was born on November 17, 1942, in Bristow, Oklahoma. He was born at home on the dining table. His parents were Clarence and Celesta Newell. Mike is the youngest of seven children. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Michael Newell ; Slick (Okla.) ; Clarence Earl Newell ; Celesta Leona Goodmon Newell ; Robert Lee Newell Life ; Family 0 193 Father RS: Robert Lee Newell, okay. Well, let’s, what about your, can you tell me like what your parents did for a living? Tell me what your dad did for a living.
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, he started out in law enforcement.
 ; 
 ; RS: Really?
 ; 
 ; MN: Law enforcement. Oil field.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oil field, okay.
 ; Mike talks about his father and his life. Mike's father (Clarence) started out working in the oilfield, he later went on to farm. Robert Lee Newell ; Law enforcement ; oil field ; Louis Peters Father 0 239 Family-Parents and Siblings MN: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: And was
 ; 
 ; MN: She never worked outside the home. She stayed right there and drove a team of mules just like a man.
 ; 
 ; RS: That’s awesome. So, has your family been in Bris, like has your family been in Bristow this entire time? Did they come here from somewhere or?
 ; Mike talks about his life on the farm growing up. He says his mother never worked outside the home. She helped on the farm. The gathering place for the family and extended family was at their ranch on Sundays. Bud Peters ; Newell Ranch Family ; Parents 0 308 Early Childhood RS: I wish we had more of that in today’s times. So, let’s talk a little big about your early childhood. I want to kind of get a picture of you were as a youngster, and then growing up, and then, you know, we will get into your family and your career. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games you played as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, by myself, I was always a cowboy.
 ; 
 ; RS: You’ve always been a cowboy, haven’t you?
 ; 
 ; MN: And then on the Sundays, we had a game we called over and under.
 ; Mike tells Regan about his childhood. He always pretended to be a cowboy. He played a game called over and under on Sundays with the other children. He was responsible for washing the milk cans and the milker after his father finished the milking. He also enjoyed hunting and fishing.
 ; Cowboy ; Farm ; school ; Hunting ; Fishing Childhood 0 503 Skating on the Frozen Creek RS: Oh no! You gotta tell it all! Tell me one story. Tell me one story where you got into some mischief. Can you think of anything?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, one time, it was cold, snow and ice. And there was a creek down there and we would skate on the ice. Where I was skating, it broke through, and I couldn’t come back up.
 ; Mike tells a story about going down to the creek and skating on the ice. The ice where Mike was skating broke, and he was stuck. His friend used a rock to bust the ice and pull Mike out. Creek Skating 0 569 Hobbies as a Child RS: So, did you have any favorite hobbies as a child? Was there anything you were really into?
 ; 
 ; MN: Hunting, fishing, riding. When I got big enough, I started rodeoing. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Rodeoing. Did you collect anything as a youngster? Do you remember collecting anything?
 ; 
 ; MN: No, not really.
 ; Mike enjoyed hunting, fishing and riding horses growing up. He was involved in riding in the rodeos. Hunting ; Fishing ; rodeo Hobbies 0 597 School RS: Not really? Let’s talk a little big about your school life. Where did you first attend school? 
 ; 
 ; MN: Washington.
 ; 
 ; RS: Washington Elementary?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, wow. I went there, too!
 ; 
 ; MN: It don’t exist anymore. 
 ; 
 ; RS: I know, I know! Did you remember having any influential teachers in your lifetime, whether it was elementary or through high school or whatever, ones that really stuck out to you?
 ; 
 ; MN: Gladys Holcomb [Alta Gladys Holcomb 4/7/1911-9/28/1995].
 ; Mike attended elementary school at Washington Elementary in Bristow. Gladys Holcomb taught art and made a big impact on Mike. Mike was involved with band but did not play sports. Washington Elementary School ; Alta Gladys Holcomb School 0 700 Milk Depot RS: Well, wait. Where was the milk depot? I don’t know if I’ve heard of that. Or what is that?
 ; 
 ; MN: Right by the old depot, the train depot.
 ; 
 ; RS: The train depot?
 ; 
 ; MN: That building that’s just right west of there, a guy named Carl Baker [Carl Eugene Baker 5/10/1905-11/10-1995] ran it, and we had milk cans and had our number and our name on them. Mike's father often took their milk to the milk depot in Bristow. It was located beside the train depot. They sold their cream which would be used to make butter. Later they stopped s Milk depots ; train depot ; Carl Eugene Baker ; fire department ; Town Square ; Creamery ; Oral Leslie Kaup Milk depots 0 874 Childhood Home RS: Hey, that’s understandable. Okay, so you primarily lived in the house that you, did you grow up in the house that you currently live in?
 ; 
 ; MN: No.
 ; 
 ; RS: No? But it’s on the same property?
 ; 
 ; MN: I grew up there, yeah, but I was grown, and my mother was still living. I had a house just right south of them that my dad bought. He wanted to keep me on the farm to help him. Of course, the rest of the kids all married and gone.
 ; Mike's family lived on about 160 acres of land. It is located on Highway 16. The original farmhouse burned when Mike was working at the sheriff's office. police department ; sheriff's department ; Mannford (Okla.) ; Newell Farm ; Slick (Okla.) ; Highway 16 Home 0 1198 Meals as a Family RS: So, what were meal times like for your family? Did everybody sit down?
 ; 
 ; MN: Pretty well. When supper or dinner was ready and she called us to the house, we better be there.
 ; 
 ; RS: You better be there, huh? What were your meals like? I’m guessing your mom was probably, she probably was a heck of a cook if I’m remembering what Bud told me.
 ; Mike's family enjoyed dinner together every night. His mother was a great cook. Mike especially enjoyed breakfast-eggs, ham, bacon, biscuits, gravy and fried potatoes. Mike's favorite dessert was blackberry drop dumplings that his mother made. Louis Peters ; Emmett Dykes ; Opal Dykes Meal ; Family 0 1348 Coalition of Christian Cowboys RS: Yeah, see and that’s all the stuff that they say now, or for a long time, said is bad for you, but now they’re coming back around saying it’s good for you. So, I think you guys probably had it figured out back then. Okay, well, thinking back to your town life and growing up, did you have any favorite community activities? Say, like, I know you were involved with Western Heritage Days, but day camps, parades, county fairs? Can you tell me anything about any of those types of things?
 ; 
 ; MN: I was always in rodeoing, but we had organization that I founded. It was the Coalition of Christian Cowboys.
 ; Mike founded an organization called the Coalition of Christian Cowboys. He was the president for about 22 or 23 years until it dissolved. They would organize trail rides and other cowboy things. They raised money for people in need, especially during the holidays. Western Heritage Days ; Day camps ; Parades ; county fairs ; Coalition of Christian Cowboys ; Texas Playboys ; Thanksgiving ; Christmas Coalition of Christian Cowboys 0 1543 County Fair RS: Well, that’s interesting. So, did you do, did you have anything to do, I know, I’ve been told that the county fair used to be a pretty big deal around here.
 ; 
 ; MN: Oh yeah. Of course, we all went through the 4H and FFA, and at that time, where all the old farm or city buildings are out at the park.
 ; 
 ; RS: The city, uh-huh.
 ; 
 ; MN: That’s where they rodeo grounds was.
 ; 
 ; RS: Right. 
 ; 
 ; MN: And we had things like that.
 ; The county fair was an important event during Mike's childhood. It was located out by the park where the city buildings are located. The 4H and FFA were always involved in the fair. County fair ; 4H ; Future Farmers of America County fair 0 1575 Businesses Around Town RS: Okay. Growing up, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town? Like, did you have a favorite place to eat out or hang out or?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, I can’t think of anything right now.
 ; 
 ; RS: Nothing that stood out to you? Did you eat out much as a young person or did you usually eat at home?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, mom would cook.
 ; 
 ; RS: Yeah, you always ate at home.
 ; 
 ; MN: My wife cooked.
 ; 
 ; RS: Right, right. So, then I guess growing up as a teenager, you didn’t have any particular hang-outs around town or things that you would do?
 ; 
 ; MN: No. Usually when I got to town, the first thing I’d do was go to Red Bird.
 ; Mike loved going to Red Bird when he went into town. He loved the smell of leather. He enjoyed looking at the saddles and the bridles. Red Bird Business 0 1644 Family Cars and Learning to Drive RS: Okay. Do you remember, and this might be kind of an odd question, but like your family’s first car?
 ; 
 ; MN: Dad had several Model-T’s and Model-A’s and when we grew up, he would buy a new pick up every once in a while. And back then you could buy a brand new pick up for $1500.
 ; Mike's father owned several Model-T's and Model A's when Mike was young. His father also bought new trucks occasionally. Mike's first car was a 1949 Ford pickup. He got his driver's license when he was 18 or 19. Model T ; Model A ; Ford Family ; car 0 1777 Television RS: Just on the farm. Okay. Well, so, I know it sounds like you were probably more of an outside person, but do you remember, did you get to watch any TV or anything like that growing up?
 ; 
 ; MN: Our first TV, I can remember, I was probably seven or eight-years-old, and we had a black and white and it was just real small. And it had rabbit ears back then and that’s what I got to watch.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, do you remember any particular program that you liked?
 ; 
 ; MN: Ohhhh, Gene Autry and Roy Rogers and Johnny Mack Brown and all them. I would hurry when I got home from school to watch Roy Rogers and Gene Autry before I had to go out and start doing chores.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you did catch a little TV then?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yes!
 ; Mike recalls the first television his family owned. It was small and was a black and white picture. He loved watching Gene Autry, Roy Rogers and Johnny Mack Brown. Gene Autry ; Roy Rogers ; Johnny Mack Brown Television 0 1843 Guitar RS: Do you think that was, I don’t know, kind of instrumental in you, like your singing and you’re desire to want sing and play instruments?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yeah. They was always Roy Rogers and Gene Autry was always singing, and this is not practical, but in the movies, they would be riding down the trail and playing their guitar while they was riding their horses. That don’t work.
 ; Mike played the guitar as a child. He remembers seeing Gene Autry and Roy Rogers on television riding their horses down the trail while playing their guitars. He taught himself to play the guitar and never received a lesson. Roy Rogers ; Gene Autry ; Guitar Guitar 0 1929 Dr. King RS: You’re still learning, huh? Well, that’s good. So, what was medical care like for your family? If you were born on the dining room table, I’m thinking they probably told you to just rub some dirt on it and walk it off.
 ; 
 ; MN: No, our old doctor, Dr. King [E.W. King].
 ; Mike's family doctor was Dr. King. He was also a farmer, and he made house calls. Many of the medical bills were paid with chickens and pigs. Medical ; E.W. King Dr. King 0 2015 Faith MN: Oh, yeah. In fact, I wrote a song called “That Old Barn” and my dad that’s where he would go and pray. Bible says go into your own closet and pray. And, so, that’s what he done. Us kids would be playing in the hay, and all of the sudden, we didn’t even know he was down there. So, he would pray, and boy, it was loud. I mean, he really, really got into it.
 ; 
 ; RS: Is that where you, I guess, learned your faith?
 ; 
 ; MN: Oh, yeah.
 ; Mike learned his faith from his father. His father would pray in the barn while the children played. He first attended church at First Church of God in Bristow. Mike now attends church in Slick and is very involved. First Church of God ; Wilbert Harrison Goodmon ; Depew (Okla.) ; Valley View Church ; Freewill Baptist ; Nazarene Church ; Slick (Okla.) ; Community Center Faith 0 2283 Holidays RS: Yeah, yeah. That’s good. We already talked about the Coalition of Christian Cowboys that you were in. Let’s um, so what were, because Bud [Louis Peters] had actually brought this up a little bit. What were, tell me, from your perspective what were holidays like at your house growing up, like Christmas and stuff like that. Was it family-oriented?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yes.
 ; Mike enjoyed holidays with his family as a child. They would dig up a pine tree and put it in a five-gallon bucket to use as a Christmas tree. Mike received his first .22 rifle as a gift for Christmas one year. Coalition of Christian Cowboys ; Louis Peters ; Christmas ; Fourth of July ; Easter Holidays 0 2388 Cowboy RS: Yeah, that’s fun. So, as a child, do you remember, did you ever have…what did you want to be when you grew up? Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; MN: A cowboy.
 ; 
 ; RS: You wanted to be a cowboy. Well, I think you succeeded!
 ; As a child, Mike always wanted to be a cowboy when he grew up. Cowboy Cowboy 0 2406 Law Enforcement MN: I didn’t have any inkling or desire to or anything to be in law enforcement.
 ; 
 ; RS: You didn’t?!
 ; 
 ; MN: No. 
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how did that happen?
 ; 
 ; MN: It just kind of…I was working in Tulsa and we worked so many hours that everybody was just tired and everything. And, so, I would meet with a bunch of other guys on north main, there, and we would leave our cars there and carpool. And then I had a friend that was on the police department, and I told him I was tired of this job I was going to. He said, I can get you a job. Mike never had a desire to be in law enforcement, yet that is where he ended up. He had a friend that worked in the police department that helped Mike get started in law enforcement. Tulsa (Okla.) ; Police Department ; Police Officer ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Police Department ; Academy ; Norman (Okla.) ; Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training Law enforcement 0 2606 FBI Academy MN: Down on 8th Street. Just a hole in the ground, we’d call it. Then we were right over here. I don’t know how it came about, but I went to as seminar on homicide and others were learning how to administer to your department and everything, and this FBI agent was there, and he was one of the teachers. And he asked me if I would be interested in going to the FBI academy. I said, well, of course, but my city would never let me do that. Well, it turned out that he said we’ll pay your way and it won’t cost the city anything. Mike attended the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. He was there training for eight months and only returned home a few times to visit. FBI Academy ; Quantico (Va.) FBI Academy 0 2720 U.S. Marshals MN: Oh yes, yes. It really helped me out. Because when I retired from Bristow Police Department, I went to the sheriff’s department. Doug and I, the sheriff, Doug Nichols. I was the Chief Criminal Deputy for him and that lasted about four years. I got aggravated and quit. I was just staying at home doing nothing. The U.S. Marshal in Tulsa called me and wanted to know why didn’t I come to work for him, so I wound up spending another 22 or three years for the U.S. Marshals. Later in Mike's career, he worked for the U.S. Marshals. He would guard the judge and administer the court. Bristow Police Department ; Doug Nichols ; Sheriff Department ; Chief Criminal Deputy ; U.S. Marshal ; Creek County Sheriff's Department U.S. Marshals 0 2823 Mentors RS: Oh, my goodness. Okay. Did you have in that period of time, and probably maybe specifically early on, any influential mentors? I think, especially, since you were kind of sounds like thrown in to being in law enforcement and not having a lot of experience. Did you have anybody that mentored you during that time?
 ; 
 ; MN: When I first went to work, there was a man, I can’t remember anymore, but he was an older gentleman. He lives at Depew [Oklahoma]. His daddy had been a police officer, and he kind of mentored me, give me advice and things like that.
 ; An older gentleman in Depew became a mentor to Mike. This gentleman had been a police officer and gave Mike advice. Mentor ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Police Officer Mentor 0 2929 Solving a Murder RS: And you stayed. So, your kids had told me several stories from when you were in law enforcement, and I understand that you were featured in the magazine True Detective for solving a murder. Can you tell me when, like where were you and can you tell me a little bit about that?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well here, the first one was an old lady name Nattie Jo Price [12/5/1907-2/19/1988]. Her husband had been the mayor here for quite some time.
 ; Mike was featured in the True Detective magazine for solving a murder. He solved the murder of Nattie Jo Price and solved it in about four days. Law enforcement ; True detective ; Nattie Jo Price ; Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation Murder 0 3032 Capturing Gunmen RS: Still? Wow! So, there was another story, and I’m just giving a general, you can give me the details about you capturing two gunmen, robbers, because you hit one over the head with your gun and then you shot through the back window of a car wounded the other one. So, basically you took them out, two out by yourself.
 ; 
 ; MN: Yes. Yeah.
 ; Mike tells a story about how he got into a chase with some gunmen. Two semis noticed and blocked their car in. Mike had to act fast in catching them before the other highway patrols and deputies arrived. He hit one of the men on the head and shot and wounded the other man. Police Department ; Police Officer ; Kemp's Drug Store ; Assistant District Attorney ; Thurman's Motel ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jack Franz McKenzie gunmen 0 3487 Jim Camp RS: Okay, so then I have to ask you about, Tim had told a story, and I don’t know the details of what happened, but that basically, somebody had put a gun to your stomach and pulled the trigger and it didn’t go off. What happened with that? That’s why I was saying it seems like you’ve, you’ve skirted death more than once in your life.
 ; 
 ; MN: Oh, yeah. I did. It was up at the Anchor Drive-In. His name, well, I don’t know what his name is but he’s dead and gone now. But I’ll mention it, well dog-gone-it. I can’t even remember his name now. Jim Camp.
 ; Mike had many run-ins with a man named Jim Camp. Mike arrested Jim many times. On one occasion, Mike had to knock him off the stool and stop Jim from shooting his gun at Anchor Drive-In. Anchor Drive-In ; Jim Camp Jim Camp 0 3643 Changes in Law Enforcement RS: So, what do you feel, because I mean, I guess I didn’t realize, I’ve been here probably since the 80’s. I moved here in the third grade. It sounds like there was quite a bit of…how would you compare crime throughout the time you were a cop here versus, say, how it is now? Do you think it’s better or worse?
 ; 
 ; MN: I don’t know how to answer that. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Or is it just different, maybe?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yeah, it would be different now, because they’ve changed law enforcement so much. We had nine or ten officers. And another thing, all the officers that I’ve worked with, they’re all gone. All of ‘ems dead.
 ; Mike talks about how law enforcement has changed over the years. He believes they had more crime back in his day, especially robberies. He never thought the police chief would be a woman and now that is what Bristow has in their department. He remembers his first experience with marijuana. Chief of Police ; Police Officer ; Police Department ; Marijuana ; California Law enforcement 0 3855 Proud Moments RS: Can you recall or do you have, I don’t know, maybe, well let’s start with your most proud moments of being in law enforcement?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, not any one particular deal. I was always proud, but I guess you could call it proud. Shouldn’t even say that.
 ; 
 ; RS: No, I think that’s okay to say.
 ; 
 ; MN: An incident like a murder or armed robbery or something, and I felt proud that we got them caught, you know.
 ; 
 ; RS: Brought to justice, yeah.
 ; 
 ; MN: And everything turned out without anybody getting hurt.
 ; Mike hesitates to mention being proud of his accomplishments. He does say he felt proud when he caught the culprit in a murder or armed robbery, especially when no one got hurt. Law enforcement ; Justice proud moments 0 3911 Experiences that Stand Out RS: Right, right. Do you have a, do you have an experience that sticks out to you as, maybe, being your most harrowing experience, or did you have multiple…it sounded like you had multiple ones, honestly.
 ; 
 ; MN: Yes, some of with the same guy. Some of them, Jim Camp, you know.
 ; Regan asks Mike about any experiences he had that stand out. He mentions he had multiple run-ins with Jim Camp. Mike also mentions a family on 10th Street that he had multiple encounters with. He vividly remembers shooting one in the backside. Jim Camp ; 10th Street ; Mrs. Price Experiences 0 4033 Favorite Job RS: Right, right. So, you’re experiences between Bristow and the sheriff’s office and the U.S. Marshal, and working with the U.S. Marshal, do you have a favorite? Did one stand out more to you than the other as being a place that you enjoyed more?
 ; 
 ; MN: Yes, I liked the Marshal Service. They had a good deal. They furnished our clothes and our guns.
 ; Mike enjoyed his time at the Marshal Service. He says they took care of the men ; they supplied the clothes and guns. They also paid more. Bristow (Okla.) ; Sheriff Office ; U.S. Marshal Job 0 4155 Training for the FBI Academy RS: Right. Can I back up just a little bit to the FBI academy? Can you tell me anymore details about that and what that was like, because that’s an insight that not very many people have as to what something like that is about.
 ; 
 ; MN: As far as I know, I’m the only one from Bristow that’s been up there. We learned not only, we just learned how to administrate, you know, and take care of the financial part of the police department. More about investigating homicides and a lot of stuff like that. Plus, it was the physical part. We had to run and exercise. It was quite a deal.
 ; Mike attended the FBI Academy when he was in his fifties. There he learned more about investigating homicides and taking care of the financial part of the police department. He also had to train for the physical part of law enforcement. FBI Academy ; Police Department FBI Academy 0 4245 Bob Webb's Grocery RS: Oh, my gosh. Well, that’s interesting. Okay, well let’s, unless you have any other particular stories you would like to share, because I just had a few that your kids had shared with me. Is there any other stories you would like to share about being in law enforcement?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, one of them, kind of funny when I look back on it. I was patrolling and I had an auxiliary officer with me. We drove down what used to be the Bob Webb’s Grocery. Mike recalls a story about catching robbers at Bob Webb's Grocery. He was patrolling one night when he noticed something off. He ended up shooting through a beer case while shooting at one of the robbers. Law enforcement ; Bob Webb's Grocery ; Auxiliary Officer ; Bobby Nichols ; Doug Nichols ; Bob Webb Bob Webb's Grocery 0 4529 Family-Wives and Children RS: Well, I’m going to ask you a little bit about your family. Now, I know that you were married to, you said Bernice Newell, which that’s Stacie and Shannon and Thad’s mom, right? And then, and then your current wife is Barbara.
 ; 
 ; MN: Barbara Ann Beistle [Barbara “Bobbi” Ann Beistle Newell] was her maiden name.
 ; Mike tells about his marriages and children. His first wife was Bernice Newell. His current wife is Barbara "Bobbi" Beistle Newell. He has three children-Tim, Tom and Thad. He also has two stepchildren-Stacie and Shannon. Bernice Newell ; Barbara Ann Beistle Newell ; Timothy Michael Newell ; Thomas Ray Newell ; Thaddeus Paul Newell ; Stacie Freitas ; Shannon Martin Wife ; Children 0 4622 Rodeoing RS: Okay, so I wanted to also talk to you about rodeoing. I know that’s been a big part of your life, and obviously, you’ve wanted to be a cowboy and have been a cowboy your whole entire life. Now, when I talked to you, you said whenever you competed in rodeos, you did bull dogging? Is that right?
 ; 
 ; MN: First, my first entry was bareback bronc riding. I done that and was making money. I broke my collar bone, and so, my mother, I hadn’t gotten married yet.
 ; Mike loved being involved with rodeos when he was younger. His first entry was bareback bronc riding. Mike also joined the Rodeo Cowboy Association and did bulldogging. He did that for about six or seven years. Harley Bethel ; Rodeo Cowboys Association (U.S.) ; Police Department Rodeo 0 4830 Round Up Club and FFA RS: And then I also understand you were involved in the Round Up Club and that you played an integral role in restarting the ag and the FFA program here at Bristow. Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, at that time, we didn’t have the FFA. They had, they had done away with it. And, so, we got a petition going and it wound up being FFA again [indecipherable] Vo-Ag.
 ; Mike was involved with the Bristow Round Up Club. He believes he is still a member by proxy as he does not attend the meetings anymore. He played an important role in restarting the FFA program in Bristow. Joe Stephens ; Timothy Michael Newell ; Future Farmers of America ; Round Up Club ; Bristow (Okla.) Round Up Club ; Future Farmers of America 0 4945 Bands RS: Right, right. Okay, well now I want to talk about your band, and it’s called Prairie Grass?
 ; 
 ; MN: The first one, I’ve had two or three, but the one just before this we called, well doggone it. We were a cowboy band, and we went all over playing cowboy music, like the Sons of the Pioneers, Gene Autry and all of them.
 ; Mike is part of a band ; it is called Prairie Grass. They are a cowboy band and still play occasionally. Prairie Grass ; Sons of the Pioneers ; Gene Autry ; Lubbock (Tex.) ; National Cowboy Symposium ; Grand Ol' Opry ; Police Department ; Elks Lodge ; Owasso (Okla.) ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; The Freeland Center Band (Instrumental group) 0 5159 Writing Poems and Songs RS: Well, like I had mentioned before, I hear that you like a poet, a song writer, sounds like just a writer in general. How do you, did anything inspire you to be that or where did that come from would you say?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, I’ve always like the cowboy music like Sons of the Pioneers, [indecipherable]. I went to a couple of the cowboy poet deals, and I didn’t pay that much attention but I got interested in it and was doing it, so.
 ; Mike has written many songs and poems. He has a collection and will save them for his family. Sons of the Pioneers ; Poems ; Songs Poems ; Songs 0 5234 Important Invention in Lifetime RS: Okay, okay. Well, I’m going to ask you a couple more questions and then you can play us a song. These might make you think a little bit. I’m wondering what you would consider to be the most important invention of your lifetime.
 ; 
 ; MN: Invention?
 ; 
 ; RS: Yeah, like what, so like a lot of people, you know, this wouldn’t apply to you, but some people would say the automobile or the radio or electronics or what would be, can you think of what would be the most?
 ; 
 ; MN: That would be a broad area, because everything, you know, is changed.
 ; Mike believes the automobile was the most important thing invented in his lifetime. He states that things have changed so much over the years. Invention ; Automobile ; Radio ; Electronics Invention 0 5303 How Things Have Changed in the World RS: So, how do you feel that things have changed in the world since, say, you were a kid growing up? What’s the biggest difference?
 ; 
 ; MN: Oh, gosh. I don’t know how to answer that one. Things have just changed so much. When I look back, you know, everything, everything has changed.
 ; Mike talks about how things have changed in his lifetime. He does not like all of the technology and how everything involves a computer. He does not like cell phones and will not text but insists on communicating with a phone call. Society ; Computer ; Cellular Phone Changes 0 5391 Nation's Biggest Problem RS: Well, I knew to call you and not text you. So, and this might be another hard question for you, but I’d be interested to see what you have to say. What do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem right now, and how do you think we can solve it?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, that gets into politics, mostly. If we don’t, if we don’t get a new president, whether it’s Biden, well, it wouldn’t be Biden, probably Trump. It’s changed a lot in four years since Trump got beat the first time. We’re right on the verge of third world war. And open borders. Millions pouring into the United States, and there’s no way that we can support all that, you know. It’s just bad, really bad.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, then you feel like our biggest problem right now is lack of leadership?
 ; 
 ; MN: Right.
 ; Mike believes our nation's biggest problem is a lack of leadership. He feels we are on the verge of World War 3. He does not like how millions are pouring into our country and feels we cannot support them. Biden, Joseph R. ; Trump, Donald Nation ; Problem 0 5472 Historic Events-Covid RS: Okay, alright. I can’t say that I disagree with you. And, then, I also wanted to ask, thinking about historic events, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, even covid, have any types of those things directly affected your life that you can remember?
 ; 
 ; MN: Probably be covid. My wife and I both got the covid because we didn’t take the shots. But I guess that’s, I was in the hospital but my wife didn’t go, but I had to go.
 ; Mike discusses how Covid affected his life. He ended up very sick and in the hospital. It took him awhile, but he finally recovered fully. Oklahoma City Bombing ; September 11 Terrorist Attacks, 2001 ; Covid-19 Historic Events ; Covid-19 0 5602 Wisdom for Future Generations RS: Right. Yeah, because, yeah I can imagine. Well, is there anything else you would like to tell us or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; MN: Well, I think the most important thing anybody can do is accept the Lord, Jesus Christ.
 ; 
 ; RS: Amen! I love that answer. 
 ; 
 ; MN: I think that’s the most important thing they can do. We are in a bad situation right now.
 ; Mike leaves us with some wisdom. He feels the most important thing anyone can do is accept Jesus as their savior. Wisdom ; Jesus Christ Wisdom 0 5647 Leaving Us with a Song RS: I agree. I agree. Well, I think I like that answer. Well, I just want to tell you thank you. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archives for the museum. I really appreciate you taking the time to visit with me. Now I’m wondering if we can get you to play us a song.
 ; 
 ; MN: Yeah, I can do that.
 ; Mike agrees to sing a song to conclude his interview. He sings an old song and then finishes the interview. Oral History Archives ; Museum Song 0 MP3 Mike shares about his life growing up, his family, his work life in law enforcement and about his love of music and writing. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 2, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Mike Newell at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area, and maybe, if we’re lucky, sing us a tune. Can you please tell us your full name? MN: Michael Newell. RS: So, you don’t have a middle name? MN: No middle name. RS: No middle name. And do I have permission to record this interview? MN: Yes, ma’am. RS: Okay. So, can you tell me when and where you were born? MN: I was born right here in Bristow. And we lived at Slick until I was about three-years-old, and my dad bought the farm where I’m at now. RS: So, it’s been in your family that long? MN: Yes. RS: Oh, wow, okay. And what’s your date of birth? MN: 11/17/1942. RS: And you told me you were just born in, you weren’t born in a hospital, right? MN: No. I was born in a home on the dining table. RS: Oh, my gosh! Okay, wow! And then, so you said where you’re living now, your dad bought that farm whenever you were three? MN: Yeah, two or three-years-old. RS: Two or three-years-old. Well, let’s talk a little bit about the people in your family. Let’s start with your parents. Can you tell me your mom and your dad’s full names? MN: My dad’s name was Clarence Earl Newell, Sr. [7/31/1896-2/16/1974] RS: Okay. MN: My mother’s name was Celesta Leona Goodmon [Celesta Leona Goodmon Newell 8/10/1908-10/27/1981] was her maiden name. RS: So, is it Leona Celesta or Celesta Leona? MN: To tell you the truth, I don’t know. I’ve been told both ways. RS: You’ve been told…okay. I’ll verify that. And do you have any siblings? MN: Like all my brothers and sisters? RS: Yes. MN: Oh, gosh. RS: So, you have a bunch of brothers and sisters? MN: I think seven. RS: Oh, my goodness. MN: All of them are gone. RS: All of them are gone. MN: But me. RS: Wow, so where did you fall in the seven? What number were you? MN: The youngest. RS: You were the youngest? Okay. Do you want to try to tell me all their names? Just so we will have it on record. Start with the oldest maybe? MN: The oldest would have been my, she was a half-sister. RS: Okay. That’s okay! If that’s something, I can get that information later, and we can, we’ll just know that you had seven siblings. MN: My oldest brother retired from the military. He was a colonel. His name was Robert Lee Newell. RS: Robert Lee Newell, okay. Well, let’s, what about your, can you tell me like what your parents did for a living? Tell me what your dad did for a living. MN: Well, he started out in law enforcement. RS: Really? MN: Law enforcement. Oil field. RS: Oil field, okay. MN: And he went from that to farming. And then he got into the dairy business, had milk cows. RS: I think I remember Bud [Louis “Bud” Peters] telling me some about that, too. MN: Then that’s about it. He lived on the farm, milked the cows. RS: Farmed his whole life. And, so, then, did you mom just help in that area? MN: Yes. RS: And was MN: She never worked outside the home. She stayed right there and drove a team of mules just like a man. RS: That’s awesome. So, has your family been in Bris, like has your family been in Bristow this entire time? Did they come here from somewhere or? MN: As far as I know, it’s been right here. RS: Always been here, okay. So, growing up did you have much of your family that lived nearby? Like your extended family? MN: Most of them did. The oldest, of course, he was in the military. Most of them lived right here in Bristow or close by. RS: Well, from talking to Bud, it sounded like that was the gathering place was at the Newell Ranch. That’s where the cousins, the aunts, the uncles, everybody, that was where it was at. MN: On Sunday, everybody gathered out there. RS: I love it. MN: Had a big dinner. RS: Music. MN: Music. RS: Yes, that’s awesome. MN: Riding horses or what have you. RS: I wish we had more of that in today’s times. So, let’s talk a little big about your early childhood. I want to kind of get a picture of you were as a youngster, and then growing up, and then, you know, we will get into your family and your career. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games you played as a youngster? MN: Well, by myself, I was always a cowboy. RS: You’ve always been a cowboy, haven’t you? MN: And then on the Sundays, we had a game we called over and under. RS: Over and under? What is that? I’ve never heard of that one. MN: Well, we had the home and then we had a team on one side and one side. We had kind of like a basketball. We’d throw it over there and they’d throw it back. And the first one to miss, they was out of the game, you know. RS: Oh, okay. MN: But anyway, then kick the can down the road and just all kinds of stuff. RS: All kinds of stuff. So, I think, probably, also, though, for you, weren’t you always like riding horses and doing that kind of thing, too? MN: Yeah. RS: Always involved with the farm. Did you have chores that you were expected to do as a youngster? MN: Oh, yeah. RS: So, tell us a little bit about that. Tell me what a day was like when you were a kid, like when you got up in the morning, what did you have to do? MN: Well, we went to the milk barn and dad most of the milking. And I was the clean-up guy. I had to wash the milk cans and the milker and all that. RS: So, about how old were you whenever you started having to do chores, would you say? MN: Just right away, and it seemed like three or four-years-old. RS: Really? MN: I had things to do. RS: That’s probably good. Teaches you a good work ethic. I think that’s what we’re missing these days. MN: That’s right. RS: Yeah. So, you would help do the clean-up with the milking. Did you have evening chores, too? MN: Yes. We, like when I got into school, started to school, we done the milking and dad would take me to school. And then along about 3 o’clock, he would pick me up, be home and then the work started all over again. RS: Started all over again. But I guess you had to, to keep the farm going, huh? MN: Yeah. RS: It took all of you. Did you have friends that would come over and play or did you mainly play with your siblings or, how did that work? MN: Both. RS: Both. MN: Yeah. RS: Cousins and siblings and stuff like that? And what kinds of things did you do or did you get into any mischief? MN: Hunting and fishing, yeah. I won’t mention about the mischief. RS: Oh no! You gotta tell it all! Tell me one story. Tell me one story where you got into some mischief. Can you think of anything? MN: Well, one time, it was cold, snow and ice. And there was a creek down there and we would skate on the ice. Where I was skating, it broke through, and I couldn’t come back up. RS: Oh, my gosh! MN: I was under the ice and my buddy got a big old rock and busted the ice and pulled me out. And I like to froze to death before I got to the house. RS: Oh, my gosh! How old do you think you think you were then, maybe? MN: Probably seven, maybe eight-years-old. RS: Did you get in trouble or did your mom and dad know what had happened? MN: Well, they scolded me, you know. RS: Just glad you were alive. Oh, my gosh! It sounds like you’ve had more than one near-death experience in your lifetime. MN: Yes. RS: So, did you have any favorite hobbies as a child? Was there anything you were really into? MN: Hunting, fishing, riding. When I got big enough, I started rodeoing. RS: Rodeoing. Did you collect anything as a youngster? Do you remember collecting anything? MN: No, not really. RS: Not really? Let’s talk a little big about your school life. Where did you first attend school? MN: Washington. RS: Washington Elementary? MN: Yeah. RS: Oh, wow. I went there, too! MN: It don’t exist anymore. RS: I know, I know! Did you remember having any influential teachers in your lifetime, whether it was elementary or through high school or whatever, ones that really stuck out to you? MN: Gladys Holcomb [Alta Gladys Holcomb 4/7/1911-9/28/1995]. RS: Gladys Holcomb? Okay, and what did she teach? MN: Art mostly and things like that. I was kind of like her pet. RS: Were you artistic? So, like painting, drawing or more? MN: Both. RS: So, you’re just the whole package? You write songs, because I heard you write songs, you’re a poet, and you were artsy, too, I guess as a young person. Well, that’s cool. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations throughout school? MN: No, not throughout school, because I was in band, but that’s about all. I didn’t go out for any of the sports because that’s when we had to get home and do the milking and. RS: To work on the farm. MN: Working on the farm. RS: Right. Okay. How did you get to school? MN: Dad would, he had to take the milk to town to the depot, the milk depot. RS: Well, wait. Where was the milk depot? I don’t know if I’ve heard of that. Or what is that? MN: Right by the old depot, the train depot. RS: The train depot? MN: That building that’s just right west of there, a guy named Carl Baker [Carl Eugene Baker 5/10/1905-11/10-1995] ran it, and we had milk cans and had our number and our name on them. And we’d deliver the milk there, and then pick up our cans that had been used and take them home and wash them all up. RS: I didn’t know that! MN: And get ready to milk again. RS: Well, I didn’t know that. I didn’t know there was a milk depot. Well, that’s interesting. So, is the building still there? MN: The building is, but now there’s another part to that. Right behind that building, right behind where the fire department is right now. RS: Right. In, like, the Town Square area? MN: Yes, there was a big basin. It’s what we called a creamery. RS: Okay. MN: And we first started milking and we sold our cream. We had a milk separator which I still have. RS: Wow! MN: It would separate the cream from the milk. Well, the regular milk, it would go to the pigs to help fatten out the pigs. And then the cream, they bought it, and it was used to make butter. RS: Do you remember around what year that would have been that you were, that you did that? I know it’s hard to remember dates. MN: I was probably four or five-years-old, but then people that run it names was Kaup [Oral Leslie Kaup 11/19/1907-3/31/1991]. And I don’t know how to spell that. RS: Kaup? That ran the creamery? I’m sorry, what was it? Kaup? MN: Yeah. RS: Okay. MN: And I don’t know where that all went to, but then we started selling just the whole milk. RS: Just the whole milk. Well, that’s interesting! I didn’t know that. I’ve learned something today! Well, that’s cool! Okay, so, kind of going back to school, I’m just curious, did you enjoy or have time, did you enjoy reading? Did you enjoy school? Did you enjoy learning? You didn’t? MN: No. That’s being honest. I was ready to get on home. RS: You’d rather be on the farm? MN: And do my chores and get on my pony and ride. RS: Hey, that’s understandable. Okay, so you primarily lived in the house that you, did you grow up in the house that you currently live in? MN: No. RS: No? But it’s on the same property? MN: I grew up there, yeah, but I was grown, and my mother was still living. I had a house just right south of them that my dad bought. He wanted to keep me on the farm to help him. Of course, the rest of the kids all married and gone. RS: So, the house you live in now is different than the house you grew up in? MN: Yes. RS: But it’s in the same general area? Okay. MN: The first house, my mother’s house, the old farmhouse, it burned. And then first thing I knew. RS: So, were you alive when it burned? MN: Oh yeah. RS: Okay, so you were a kid? MN: Yeah. And then after I was on the police department then, no, I was on the sheriff’s department, my house caught fire and burned completely up. We was at the, up by Mannford, at the lake having a picnic for the sheriff’s department and they called me and told me my house was burning. RS: Oh, no! MN: So, got there, and sure enough it was burned plum down, and then I rebuilt right there where that one set. RS: But it’s on the same land or whatever? MN: Right. RS: So, how much land is there on the Newell Farm? MN: Started out with 160 acres and dad give all the kids, brothers and sisters and everything, a five-acre plot for them to build on or whatever they wanted to do. RS: Right. MN: Well, they’d sell to each other and first thing you know, it was all gone but a hundred acres. Then my oldest boy, Tim, I gave him, I wound up giving him 15 acres. And the rest of them sold outside the family. It was just gone. RS: Right. So, there’s around a hundred left? MN: Yeah, about a hundred acres left. RS: About a hundred? Wow! Still there. And that’s out by Slick? MN: No, that’s where we live now. RS: Which is? MN: When I was three-years-old, we moved up. I live a mile east and a half south. RS: Okay. A mile east and then back south. Okay. MN: Yeah, on Highway 16. RS: Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Well, that’s what we talk about, it seems like these big farms or tracts of land, as time has gone on, you know, it seems like they last for years and years, and then it seems like in present day all the big farms are getting busted up and sold into pieces, and it’s…I’m kind of old fashioned, so I kind of think it’s sad. I hate to see that happen. So, that’s something you still have the majority of your farm left. MN: Yes. RS: That’s good. So, in the house that you grew up in, do you have, can you tell me about it? Can you describe what the house was like that you grew up in? The farmhouse? MN: It was just an old, what they call a single-wall house. We didn’t own them, but the land right north of us had oil wells and gas wells, and they let us have free gas. RS: Oh, well that’s good. MN: Raw gas, you know, it didn’t go through the cleaner or anything. We had gas lights even in the ceiling. RS: Wow! MN: It was quite a deal. And we burned wood, big wood-burning stove. RS: Was it a pretty, there was seven of you? Seven kids? MN: Yeah. RS: So, it was probably a pretty packed house? MN: Uh, no. Most of them had already moved away. RS: Were they considerably older than you? MN: Yes. RS: Oh, okay. So, you’re MN: My brother was the next oldest and he was Clarence Earl, Jr. [1/17/1936-5/12/2011], and he was seven years older than I was. RS: Okay, I remember Bud [Louis “Bud” Peters] talking about him, too. Clarence Earl, Jr., okay. So, I would imagine being a kid that liked to hunt and fish and ride, you probably didn’t spend much time in the house unless you had to, huh? MN: No. No. RS: That was probably punishment for you if you had to be in the house, huh? MN: Yeah. Right. RS: So, what were meal times like for your family? Did everybody sit down? MN: Pretty well. When supper or dinner was ready and she called us to the house, we better be there. RS: You better be there, huh? What were your meals like? I’m guessing your mom was probably, she probably was a heck of a cook if I’m remembering what Bud told me. MN: Eggs and ham and bacon and biscuits and gravy. RS: Oh, yeah. MN: Fried potatoes. RS: All the good stuff, huh? MN: Yeah. Stuff they say that’s not healthy for ya now. RS: And, how old are you now? MN: 81. RS: 81. And, I’m like, you’re still doing good! So, it must not be too unhealthy, huh? Okay. Did you have a favorite meal that your mom cooked? Like what was the BEST thing that you looked forward to? MN: All my, even today, breakfast is my main meal. RS: You love breakfast, huh? MN: Yes. RS: That’s good. Did she have any particular desserts or anything that she made that was your favorite? MN: Well, I can remember her making the homemade bread, you know, and, of course, she would make sweet rolls and stuff like that. [Indecipherable] RS: Well, that sounds good. MN: Cobblers and berries that we’d pick on the farm. RS: Yes! That’s one of the things that I remember my great aunt and uncle, Emmett and Opal Dykes were my great aunt and uncle, and my Aunt Opal would make some of the best cobbler, like peach cobbler, blackberry cobbler. MN: Oh, yeah! RS: And I don’t feel like we get that anymore these days, you know? One of the things that’s have kind of faded away it seems like. MN: My mother would make my favorite was blackberry drop dumplings. RS: Blackberry drop…so what would that, what did that consist of? MN: She just made, well, you know how they make dumplings for chicken and dumplings? RS: Right. MN: She would use blackberries someway and mix it all together. RS: Oh, man! MN: And it was just in a big old pot with the dough and berries. RS: Oh, gosh. Did you eat that with ice cream by chance? MN: Yes, and regular raw milk, cream. RS: YES! MN: We always had cream. RS: Yeah, see and that’s all the stuff that they say now, or for a long time, said is bad for you, but now they’re coming back around saying it’s good for you. So, I think you guys probably had it figured out back then. Okay, well, thinking back to your town life and growing up, did you have any favorite community activities? Say, like, I know you were involved with Western Heritage Days, but day camps, parades, county fairs? Can you tell me anything about any of those types of things? MN: I was always in rodeoing, but we had organization that I founded. It was the Coalition of Christian Cowboys. RS: So, you founded that? MN: And I was the president until about, I was the president for about 22 or three years. And I was getting to where I just couldn’t handle it no more. It finally just went away. RS: Dissolved? MN: We put on a lot of, just like the picture I was showing you here of the Texas Playboys, and stuff like that. We had trail rides. One of the biggest parades we ever had was the same time as the Texas Playboys were here. RS: So, what was your, being the Coalition of Christian Cowboys, what was your mission? What were you guys all about? MN: We were fund raising and all our projects where we made money just went right back out to people who really needed it. RS: Who needed it. MN: Thanksgiving and Christmas, we would wind up with four or five baskets, you know, and take it to different families. RS: Well, that’s awesome! So, that lasted for about twenty-some-odd years? MN: Yeah, I was the president for 22 or three years, and I just couldn’t handle it no more and I couldn’t get anybody else to take it. RS: To take it over. MN: Yeah, so. RS: Yeah, volunteers seem to be in shorter supply as time has gone on. I think people are over-busy and they don’t want to give of their time when, I think that’s super important. It sounds like you guys did a lot of good over that time span. MN: We did. RS: I didn’t know that. So, you would do, you said you would organize, what types of things? MN: Trail rides, just all kinds of cowboy things. RS: Right. So, did you do rodeos, too? Did you organize any rodeos? MN: Well, what we called jackpots. They wouldn’t be a full rodeo. RS: But would have events? MN: Bull riding or steer roping or team roping. Things like that. RS: Well, that’s interesting. So, did you do, did you have anything to do, I know, I’ve been told that the county fair used to be a pretty big deal around here. MN: Oh yeah. Of course, we all went through the 4H and FFA, and at that time, where all the old farm or city buildings are out at the park. RS: The city, uh-huh. MN: That’s where they rodeo grounds was. RS: Right. MN: And we had things like that. RS: Okay. Growing up, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town? Like, did you have a favorite place to eat out or hang out or? MN: Well, I can’t think of anything right now. RS: Nothing that stood out to you? Did you eat out much as a young person or did you usually eat at home? MN: Well, mom would cook. RS: Yeah, you always ate at home. MN: My wife cooked. RS: Right, right. So, then I guess growing up as a teenager, you didn’t have any particular hang-outs around town or things that you would do? MN: No. Usually when I got to town, the first thing I’d do was go to Red Bird. RS: Well, so see, Red Bird was your favorite store then. MN: I just loved the smell of leather. RS: Yes. MN: And looking at the saddles and the bridles and everything, you know, that I liked. RS: Everything that you loved. Yeah, right. So, see you did have a favorite store. It was Red Bird. MN: Right, yeah. RS: Okay. Do you remember, and this might be kind of an odd question, but like your family’s first car? MN: Dad had several Model-T’s and Model-A’s and when we grew up, he would buy a new pick up every once in a while. And back then you could buy a brand new pick up for $1500. RS: And, boy, those days are LONG GONE! MN: Then, of course, you know, as time went on, we got better cars and stuff like that. RS: Do you remember what YOUR first car was? MN: A ’49 Ford pickup with a windshield that would raise up, and we used that to hunt rabbits at night time, and we’d raise that up and we’d go out spotlight the rabbits and shoot through the open window. RS: So, that worked out good for you, didn’t it?! MN: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. RS: Oh, my gosh. Well, that’s interesting. Who taught you how to drive? MN: Actually, no one. The only time my dad would let me drive his pick up, he would come to town and get a load of feed and brought it back home. He’d let me drive from the house to the barn and unload the feed. RS: That’s all you got, huh? MN: And that’s the only thing I got to do. RS: So, did you just pretty much teach yourself how to drive? MN: Yeah, I was 18 or 19 before I ever got a driver’s license. RS: Oh, my goodness. Okay. But did you drive anyway before you got your license? Like, I mean? MN: Just on the farm there. RS: Just on the farm. Okay. Well, so, I know it sounds like you were probably more of an outside person, but do you remember, did you get to watch any TV or anything like that growing up? MN: Our first TV, I can remember, I was probably seven or eight-years-old, and we had a black and white and it was just real small. And it had rabbit ears back then and that’s what I got to watch. RS: So, do you remember any particular program that you liked? MN: Ohhhh, Gene Autry and Roy Rogers and Johnny Mack Brown and all them. I would hurry when I got home from school to watch Roy Rogers and Gene Autry before I had to go out and start doing chores. RS: So, you did catch a little TV then? MN: Yes! RS: Do you think that was, I don’t know, kind of instrumental in you, like your singing and you’re desire to want sing and play instruments? MN: Yeah. They was always Roy Rogers and Gene Autry was always singing, and this is not practical, but in the movies, they would be riding down the trail and playing their guitar while they was riding their horses. That don’t work. RS: Have you tried it? MN: Yes! I busted a couple guitars getting bucked off. RS: Oh, no! Oh, that’s funny! Do you remember, I guess with TV, do you remember any pivotal moments in history when you were watching TV? Like anything that stuck out to you as a youngster that happened that you saw on TV? MN: No, I can’t recall. RS: You were too busy trying sing with your guitar on your horse? MN: Right! I taught myself to play the guitar. I never had a lesson in my life. RS: Well, I was told that what all instruments you play that you’re, pretty much, self-taught on all of them, which I think is amazing. MN: Still learning. RS: You’re still learning, huh? Well, that’s good. So, what was medical care like for your family? If you were born on the dining room table, I’m thinking they probably told you to just rub some dirt on it and walk it off. MN: No, our old doctor, Dr. King [E.W. King]. RS: Dr. King. I’ve heard a lot about him. MN: And he was still practicing way up in his 90’s. He also was a farmer, so he would always want to, when we had to call the doctor, of course, they made house calls. RS: Right. MN: When we needed the doctor, well, he’d come out and do whatever he needed to do and mostly for mom. Then he’d want to look at my dad’s, they called him Earl, he wanted to go out and see his milk cows, his bull and his pigs and a lot of bills were paid with chickens and pigs. RS: See, I think that’s, I think that’s neat. MN: You didn’t have money. RS: Right. So, did you, were times, I guess, pretty tight growing up, poor? MN: Oh, yeah. In fact, I wrote a song called “That Old Barn” and my dad that’s where he would go and pray. Bible says go into your own closet and pray. And, so, that’s what he done. Us kids would be playing in the hay, and all of the sudden, we didn’t even know he was down there. So, he would pray, and boy, it was loud. I mean, he really, really got into it. RS: Is that where you, I guess, learned your faith? MN: Oh, yeah. RS: And became rooted in your MN: Yes. I was in church every time the door opened. RS: Where did you attend church? MN: First was First Church of God down here. It was a building that was completely different, you know. It was small. RS: Like at the same location but a different building? MN: Yeah. RS: Okay. MN: They bought the houses all around there for parking lots and new church and everything. And then we started, my uncle, Wilbert Goodmon [Wilbert Harrison Goodmon 11/4/1923-1/6/2017], he was a pastor over at Depew, Valley View Church I think, Valley View. We went to church over there quite a lot. And it sort of dwindled away. Didn’t have anybody to pastor it too long, and so we started going to Freewill Baptist. RS: And is it at the same location that the Freewill is now? MN: No, now it’s the Nazarene Church bought the Freewill building. RS: Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah! I gotcha. MN: I just loved the preacher there. RS: Yes. MN: Then we started RS: So, who was the preacher there at that time? MN: I can’t even remember names. But he was a singer. I mean him and his wife and another man, I mean, they could, they could really sing. RS: So, what was a Sunday service like for you? Did you, I guess, you, obviously, appreciated the music. MN: Oh, yeah. RS: Do you have a favorite hymn or song from church that is a favorite? MN: A lot of them. RS: A lot of them. MN: Yeah. RS: Hard to pick one? MN: Yeah, the old, the old hymns. RS: Right. And, so, did you sing in church? MN: Later on I did, yes, and still do. Every Sunday. RS: Every Sunday. MN: Yeah. We started going to church. It wasn’t even a church. The Baptist church down at Slick kind of split up. And, so, part of them started going to church down at the Community Center, right north of Slick. We started from that and to where we are now. We’ve got a new church. RS: Yes. MN: And a rodeo grounds, pond. We have our own youth camp for kids. We don’t send them off, you know, and give $2000 a kid, you know to send them off to bible school. RS: You just do it there. MN: Yeah. We do it. In fact, we had a, we just got through having ours, and I think we had 77 kids. RS: Wow! That’s good. MN: We had the old-fashioned baptizing in the water down at the pond. RS: In the pond. MN: And I think there was 37 kids. RS: Praise the Lord! That’s awesome! MN: Yeah. And we just have all kinds of things going on all the time. RS: Right. I like the idea of what you guys have going on there. MN: We stay busy. RS: Yeah, yeah. That’s good. We already talked about the Coalition of Christian Cowboys that you were in. Let’s um, so what were, because Bud [Louis Peters] had actually brought this up a little bit. What were, tell me, from your perspective what were holidays like at your house growing up, like Christmas and stuff like that. Was it family-oriented? MN: Yes. RS: And a lot going on there. MN: Yeah, yeah. We’d go out and cut an old cedar tree down. We didn’t have very many pine trees. We’d dig it up and put in a five-gallon bucket, you know, and we would make our own, when I was little, we would make our own Christmas decorations and stuff like that. You know, just graduate on up. RS: What was gift-giving like at your house? MN: Everybody, we was always buying for each other. RS: Was it mainly bought stuff or did you make stuff or? MN: Both. RS: Both. MN: Both. I can remember I got my first .22 rifle. RS: Oh, boy! MN: Other stuff was just kid stuff. RS: Right, right. Were other holidays a big deal around your house, like Fourth of July, Easter? MN: Yeah, all of them. RS: All of them. So, it was just a place where everybody came to gather. MN: Everybody gathered at the farm. RS: Yeah, that’s fun. So, as a child, do you remember, did you ever have…what did you want to be when you grew up? Do you remember? MN: A cowboy. RS: You wanted to be a cowboy. Well, I think you succeeded! MN: I didn’t have any inkling or desire to or anything to be in law enforcement. RS: You didn’t?! MN: No. RS: So, how did that happen? MN: It just kind of…I was working in Tulsa and we worked so many hours that everybody was just tired and everything. And, so, I would meet with a bunch of other guys on north main, there, and we would leave our cars there and carpool. And then I had a friend that was on the police department, and I told him I was tired of this job I was going to. He said, I can get you a job. And I said, no, I couldn’t be a police officer. Never. NEVER. And about two weeks later, I finally asked him what’s it like? What do you get paid? He said I can get you a job and you get paid once a month, $247 a month. RS: Oh, my goodness! MN: And I was making that in a week where I was. But, I was just tired of it! RS: Right. MN: So, I finally give in and they put me to work. RS: And that was at Bristow? MN: Yeah. RS: Bristow Police Department? So, then did you have to go to like an academy or anything? MN: Yes, but not then. RS: But not then. MN: Yeah, it was about, I had been. RS: So, then how did they train you? MN: Trial and error. RS: Oh, my goodness! MN: We tried to do what was right, you know. RS: Right. MN: And about three years in, me and another younger officer, by that time, I had worked up to, they changed hands real often down there. You might hire somebody and they’d stay a week. The next one would stay six months. You just never knew. RS: Right. MN: But anyway, we went down to Norman to, that’s where they had the first school. It was three weeks. And that seemed like a long time, and nowadays, it’s six or seven months. RS: Months, yeah. MN: Yeah, to go. And it should be longer even than that. RS: And, so, was that like, I don’t know, like what they call CLEET now? Was it something like that? MN: Yeah, it’s Council on Law Enforcement [Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training]. Then, as it went on, of course, they always had different seminars and classes where you can go. RS: Classes for like continuing education? MN: Yeah. RS: Yeah. MN: And then in 1984, I had become the assistant chief and then the chief. RS: And this is still at Bristow? MN: Right. RS: Okay. MN: Down on 8th Street. Just a hole in the ground, we’d call it. Then we were right over here. I don’t know how it came about, but I went to as seminar on homicide and others were learning how to administer to your department and everything, and this FBI agent was there, and he was one of the teachers. And he asked me if I would be interested in going to the FBI academy. I said, well, of course, but my city would never let me do that. Well, it turned out that he said we’ll pay your way and it won’t cost the city anything. RS: Wow! MN: And we’ll pay his salary while he’s gone, and, so, there I went to. RS: And where was it? MN: It was at Quantico in Virginia. RS: Really? MN: At the FBI Academy. RS: Okay. How long did it last? MN: Eight months, I believe it is. RS: So, were you gone the entire eight months, or did you? MN: I got to come back a couple times in between because my youngest baby was born. RS: Oh, my goodness! MN: So, I got to come back and be with him. RS: Right. MN: And then go back until time for me to come home. RS: So, what did you think about that experience? Were you glad that you went? What was it like? MN: Oh yes, yes. It really helped me out. Because when I retired from Bristow Police Department, I went to the sheriff’s department. Doug and I, the sheriff, Doug Nichols. I was the Chief Criminal Deputy for him and that lasted about four years. I got aggravated and quit. I was just staying at home doing nothing. The U.S. Marshal in Tulsa called me and wanted to know why didn’t I come to work for him, so I wound up spending another 22 or three years for the U.S. Marshals. RS: The U.S. Marshal. So, what do you do as a U.S. Marshal? MN: My job for them was guarding the judge and administering the court, you know, all about it. RS: Interesting. Well, so can I, okay, so you were at Bristow for, you said like 22-1/2 years? MN: I worked, yeah, I retired with 22-1/2 years. RS: And then you were with the Creek County Sheriff’s Department for about four years? MN: About four years. RS: And then you worked for the U.S. Marshal for MN: All the rest of the time I was in law enforcement. RS: Oh, my goodness. Okay. Did you have in that period of time, and probably maybe specifically early on, any influential mentors? I think, especially, since you were kind of sounds like thrown in to being in law enforcement and not having a lot of experience. Did you have anybody that mentored you during that time? MN: When I first went to work, there was a man, I can’t remember anymore, but he was an older gentleman. He lives at Depew [Oklahoma]. His daddy had been a police officer, and he kind of mentored me, give me advice and things like that. RS: So, how old were you when you whenever you started at Bristow? Do you remember, roughly? MN: I guess about 24 or 25 maybe. RS: So, you probably learned a lot of life lessons throughout your time in law enforcement. MN: I didn’t intend to be a police officer. I figured I would just stay at the police department and rest a while and then find me another job. RS: Find something else. But, I mean, honestly, you ended up liking it to stay with it for as long as what you did. And it sounded like you did amazing job, too. MN: I just found out that I liked it. I stayed. RS: And you stayed. So, your kids had told me several stories from when you were in law enforcement, and I understand that you were featured in the magazine True Detective for solving a murder. Can you tell me when, like where were you and can you tell me a little bit about that? MN: Well here, the first one was an old lady name Nattie Jo Price [12/5/1907-2/19/1988]. Her husband had been the mayor here for quite some time. RS: So, this was while you were on at Bristow? MN: Yes. RS: Okay. MN: I called in the OSBI to help me on it. We found out who the guy was [indecipherable]. And then there was two or three, then, after that. Then when I was a deputy, we had a lot of them. RS: So, the Nattie Jo Price was that the one you were featured for in the magazine, in the True Detective magazine? MN: I think so. I think that’s the one that they wrote up. RS: So, like how long of an investigation was, how long did it take to solve that murder? MN: About four days. RS: Four days?! That’s fast! MN: Yeah, we caught him! He’s in the penitentiary now. RS: Still? Wow! So, there was another story, and I’m just giving a general, you can give me the details about you capturing two gunmen, robbers, because you hit one over the head with your gun and then you shot through the back window of a car wounded the other one. So, basically you took them out, two out by yourself. MN: Yes. Yeah. RS: Can you tell me what happened? Can you give me some more details on that? MN: Well, first our police department was down here on 8th Street. Just me and the dispatcher, I don’t remember who was on duty at the time besides the dispatcher, anyways, the phone rings, when they hung up RS: So, were you just an officer at this time or were you a? MN: Yes. RS: You were just an officer? Okay. MN: I had a little bit of seniority but I was just a police officer. RS: Okay. MN: It was right there at Kemp’s Drug Store. So, when I ran out, there was a guy running, jumped into an old car and he was parked where our assistant district attorney was wanting to park. And he watched it all, but anyway, they took off. We got in a big chase right north of town. They wouldn’t pull over for me. So, these two semis noticed what was going on and they pulled in and wouldn’t let this car go by. RS: Blocked him in. MN: So, they had to pull over. I wound up getting the first guy out, and he was, you know, hollering that he didn’t do anything. And I was handcuffing him and he was trying to jerk away. When I looked up through the back window, this guy was there with a double-barrel shot gun, short, you know, sawed off shotgun. And I knew that I had to do something quick. RS: Right, right! MN: So, I held him until I snapped the other handcuff on and then I knew that he’d run off if I didn’t do something. Well, I just drawed my gun out and hit him over the head, and when he went down, then I shot the guy through the back glass. RS: Oh, my gosh. MN: Then, after that, all the other highway patrols and deputies and all that come there, but it was all over by that time, you know. RS: You’d already handled it. MN: Yeah. And so, that’s how that went. RS: So, do you have, I guess, I’m sure you have adrenaline in a situation like that, but I guess, you didn’t even have time to have any fear or anything, did you? You just did what you had to do. MN: No, when you get in that situation, you gotta do what you gotta do. RS: To survive. MN: Yeah. RS: So, how long do you think you had been on at Bristow at that time? MN: Well, I went to work as a part-time officer in 1966. And I think that was in about ’74 if I, it might be in this, one of these pictures. It was probably about 1974. It was quite a deal. RS: Yeah, because I mean, honestly, I don’t think of, I mean I think about something like that maybe happening now, but it just doesn’t seem like that kind of stuff happened back then, but I guess it did. What had they done? MN: Well, they robbed the drugstore, but two nights before that, going back and investigating things, they had stayed all night in Thurman’s Motel down on 10th Street. RS: Yep, I remember. MN: And when they didn’t check out. They went out through the back window and stole the air conditioners and a bunch of things like that. They had been in shoot outs in Tulsa and Oklahoma City already. RS: So, they were known criminals, I guess? MN: Yes, it’s a funny thing, I can remember the tag number on the car. RS: Are you serious?! MN: It was Zebra David, ZD7274. I’ll never forget that! So, when I got behind them chasing them, I knew it was the right deal because they had already checked it out before investigating the Thurman’s Motel, so they knew RS: That was the car. MN: Yeah. That was the right car. RS: And you still remember the tag number. MN: And there were already bullet holes from Oklahoma City. RS: Oh, my gosh. And they ended up landing in Bristow. MN: Yes. Funny thing about it, I’ll mention this. When I hit the guy over the head with my gun, I didn’t think about it. I actually hit him twice because he was trying to get up and go. I shot the guy in the back seat, and I come back around and he just, the other guy, trying to get up, and I knew he’d run off. And it looked like he bled all over the highway. I drawed back my gun and hit him hard again. And didn’t even think about it, but when we were back at the police department and it was all over with, we had an investigator, Jack McKenzie [Jack Franz McKenzie 12/4/1921-7/30/2016], he was a retired trooper. He said, can I see your gun? And I said, sure. I handed him the gun and he looked at it and said, Mike have you tried to shoot this gun? I said, no. You know, not since the incident. He said, come here, look at this. I had bent the trigger guard down into the trigger and it wouldn’t even shoot. RS: Oh, no! MN: And, so, the mayor went around and took up a collection and bought me a new gun. Because the city didn’t provide anything. RS: Are you serious? MN: Yeah, we had to buy our own weapons. RS: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. MN: But, anyway, that was kind of funny. RS: That you broke your gun. MN: Put it back in my holster and the thing wouldn’t even fire. RS: Okay, so then I have to ask you about, Tim had told a story, and I don’t know the details of what happened, but that basically, somebody had put a gun to your stomach and pulled the trigger and it didn’t go off. What happened with that? That’s why I was saying it seems like you’ve, you’ve skirted death more than once in your life. MN: Oh, yeah. I did. It was up at the Anchor Drive-In. His name, well, I don’t know what his name is but he’s dead and gone now. But I’ll mention it, well dog-gone-it. I can’t even remember his name now. Jim Camp. RS: Jim Camp, okay. MN: He’d been kind of, I had known him when he was a nice guy, and then he just got into drugs and everything. He had beat this guy up in the Anchor, and they called me. Of course, I was the one on duty. I went out, and when I walked in the back door, the south door of the Anchor, this gal was trying to tell me, you know, he had put his gun in his shirt. And when I walked up behind him, I knew what was going on already. He whirled around in his seat and stuck it in my gut. Really what happened RS: So, for no reason? He just turned around and stuck it in your MN: Yeah, he hated me. I had arrested him a bunch of times. RS: Oh. MN: And, so, that wasn’t correct. On that incident, he didn’t have time to pull the trigger, because I had already smacked him and knocked him off the stool down in there, and the gun slid out and went over and this truck driver had come in there to eat and didn’t know what was going on. And he ducked under the table to keep from getting shot. RS: Oh, my gosh! MN: He got the gun and took it to the guy that owned the Anchor at the time. And then he handed it to me. I took him to jail. RS: So, what do you feel, because I mean, I guess I didn’t realize, I’ve been here probably since the 80’s. I moved here in the third grade. It sounds like there was quite a bit of…how would you compare crime throughout the time you were a cop here versus, say, how it is now? Do you think it’s better or worse? MN: I don’t know how to answer that. RS: Or is it just different, maybe? MN: Yeah, it would be different now, because they’ve changed law enforcement so much. We had nine or ten officers. And another thing, all the officers that I’ve worked with, they’re all gone. All of ‘ems dead. RS: Right. MN: I’m the only one left. RS: Only one left. MN: I don’t even [indecipherable]. RS: Right. MN: The chief. RS: Right. MN: The chief. I never thought I’d see a woman chief of police, but we’ve got it. RS: Right. MN: But anyway, it’s just different. It’s better, I mean, they got more to do with. It’s just, you gotta be watched careful what you say and what you do. Everybody got a camera anymore. RS: Right, right. Do you feel like there was, but do you feel like there was more crime or less crime whenever you were an officer? MN: Oh, probably more. RS: Or just different? Really? You think so? I mean, honestly, the stories that I’ve heard that happened right here in Bristow, I was like, man! I haven’t heard really of anything like that happening since, I mean, it sounded like it was there was a lot going on! MN: I don’t even keep up with it anymore. I haven’t been back in the police department. But I hear about things. And you wonder why they do this. And why they done that. And why didn’t they do it. RS: Right. So, were drugs a prevalent then or was it mainly just like robberies? MN: We were still down in the old police department and my first experience with drugs. We caught this guy, and his name was, last name was Pinson. I had never even seen marijuana. Never heard of it, you know, other than some place in California. RS: Yeah. Right. MN: But this guy had a whole jar of marijuana seed and come to find out it had been going on. We just didn’t know it. We had, but it was marijuana only. We didn’t have any of this other stuff. RS: Other stuff. MN: At the time. But we took down quite a lot of marijuana growers and stuff like that. RS: And now it’s legal. MN: Yeah. RS: Can you recall or do you have, I don’t know, maybe, well let’s start with your most proud moments of being in law enforcement? MN: Well, not any one particular deal. I was always proud, but I guess you could call it proud. Shouldn’t even say that. RS: No, I think that’s okay to say. MN: An incident like a murder or armed robbery or something, and I felt proud that we got them caught, you know. RS: Brought to justice, yeah. MN: And everything turned out without anybody getting hurt. RS: Right, right. Do you have a, do you have an experience that sticks out to you as, maybe, being your most harrowing experience, or did you have multiple…it sounded like you had multiple ones, honestly. MN: Yes, some of with the same guy. Some of them, Jim Camp, you know. RS: Really? MN: Yeah. RS: So, you had multiple run-ins with him? MN: Yeah, I put him in several times. And then we had, well, a family, I won’t mention their name. They was always getting in trouble. They was over on 10th Street. I’m probably not supposed to mention but they were black. But anyway, we had a couple of shoot-outs with them. RS: Wow! MN: I shot one of them in the butt. I was chasing him. I was after him, you know. He’d done RS: Like a foot chase or like a car chase. MN: Yeah, it wound up in a foot chase. RS: Oh, man! MN: I finally run as far as I could, and I hollered at him to stop and he didn’t stop, so I stopped him. RS: So, you stopped him? MN: He had committed a murder, and was after him for that, so, and his brother is the one that killed Mrs. Price, and I mentioned that. RS: So, it was his brother that killed…so the family was MN: The whole family was like that. Anyway, when you get somebody that you’ve been after, why, you feel pretty good that you done your job. RS: Right, right. So, you’re experiences between Bristow and the sheriff’s office and the U.S. Marshal, and working with the U.S. Marshal, do you have a favorite? Did one stand out more to you than the other as being a place that you enjoyed more? MN: Yes, I liked the Marshal Service. They had a good deal. They furnished our clothes and our guns. RS: They took care of you? MN: Yeah, they took care of us. And we made a lot more money. RS: Right. MN: Than I ever started to make with Bristow or sheriff’s office. RS: I think that’s the thing that is very disappointing, sometimes, the positions you are put in as public servant, like for instance, my husband being a fireman, and you just don’t get paid what I think you’re worth for what you do. MN: I don’t think they will ever pay police officers in this town like they should. Now they getting paid a whole lot more than when I first went to work. RS: Right. MN: $247 a month. I wasn’t making but about $1800 a month when I went to the Marshal Service and come back. RS: Oh, my goodness. MN: They had taught me up there how to get more raises for the men and all that stuff. They just never will pay [indecipherable]. I’ve heard since I’ve left, you know, they’ve come on up and they’re making more money. RS: Right. MN: Now, I hope they are. RS: Right. Can I back up just a little bit to the FBI academy? Can you tell me anymore details about that and what that was like, because that’s an insight that not very many people have as to what something like that is about. MN: As far as I know, I’m the only one from Bristow that’s been up there. We learned not only, we just learned how to administrate, you know, and take care of the financial part of the police department. More about investigating homicides and a lot of stuff like that. Plus, it was the physical part. We had to run and exercise. It was quite a deal. RS: And you were in your, how old were you when you went to, around how old were you when you went to the academy? MN: Gosh, I guess probably in my 50’s. I’d have to think about it. RS: Are you serious? MN: Yeah. RS: And you were having to go through all the physical aspects of that. Oh, man! MN: I didn’t enjoy that part. RS: Oh, my gosh. Well, that’s interesting. Okay, well let’s, unless you have any other particular stories you would like to share, because I just had a few that your kids had shared with me. Is there any other stories you would like to share about being in law enforcement? MN: Well, one of them, kind of funny when I look back on it. I was patrolling and I had an auxiliary officer with me. We drove down what used to be the Bob Webb’s Grocery. And when we come down the street, I pulled in there, and it was a late night, so I shined the spotlight on this door, like the loading dock. And it was up about that far and I noticed that wasn’t right. So, I got out, walked over there and it was frozen chicken laying there. I said, uh, something’s going on here. So, I told this auxiliary, you take the police car and get it out of here, and go up to the police department and get all the guys surround this place, but don’t do a siren. RS: Right. MN: I said, stay hid. So, I told him, what I’m gonna do is get inside and wait for them to come back because they’re gonna try to make another load here. And sure enough, I heard them coming, and they slid it up and come inside like that and then they shut it back down. When they done that, I waited until they got away from the door, and I flipped the lights on and held my gun on them. This one guy, he peed in his britches. They already knew I would shoot, you know. RS: Yeah, you were known for shooting, huh?! MN: This guy kept saying, don’t shoot me Mr. Newell, don’t shoot me! Well, the other guy was a big, big heavy guy, and he run back to the meat department and come back out, and he had a butcher knife. I shot at him and missed, and he run to the front door where the other officers knew what was going on by that time. They run to the front, and this guy jumped through the glass door. RS: Oh, my gosh! MN: That was Bobby Nichols. He was an officer then. Doug Nichols’ brother. He hit this guy and knocked him plum back inside and handcuffed him. The next day we called, well, we called Bob out, Bob Webb, who owned the grocery store, that night. And the next day, he was laughing. He said, come here and look. When I had shot at this guy, I had shot a hole in his beer case. RS: Oh, no! MN: He wasn’t mad. He was laughing about it. And, so, that was a funny one. RS: So, they were just there stealing groceries? MN: Yeah. RS: Oh, my gosh! MN: And they’d already got away with no telling how much. RS: Oh, my goodness! MN: And we tracked it down. The kid that give up. He was crying, and like I said, wet his britches, and he told us where they’d taken it. And right down there at Cape Drive area, they had, they wasn’t but about a block and a half from the store, where they had taken it. RS: Where they’d taken it. MN: Yeah. RS: Well, my goodness! And then you shot beer, you shot the beer cooler. MN: Yeah, the bullet went in…I missed him and shot the beer. RS: Well, I’m going to ask you a little bit about your family. Now, I know that you were married to, you said Bernice Newell, which that’s Stacie and Shannon and Thad’s mom, right? And then, and then your current wife is Barbara. MN: Barbara Ann Beistle [Barbara “Bobbi” Ann Beistle Newell] was her maiden name. RS: Okay. And then your kids, can you tell me your kid’s names? MN: My own? RS: Yes, all of them. MN: Tim [Timothy Michael Newell] and Tom [Thomas Ray Newell 12/4/1968] and Thad [Thaddeus Paul Newell 1/24/1985] were mine. RS: Okay, and then you also had, your step-children were Stacie [Stacie Freitas 3/27/1976] and Shannon [Shannon Martin 7/20/1980]? Okay, alright. And then, do you have, I guess, I’m sure you have grandchildren. MN: Yeah. RS: Do you have a whole lot of grandchildren? MN: Well, not just a bunch, they were all boys. RS: All boys! MN: Except just here a while back about three or four months ago, my grandsons by Tom, him and his wife had a little girl. RS: Finally had a little girl, huh? Well, my goodness. MN: That’s the first little girl, and of course, everybody is doting over her. RS: Well, I bet. MN: Quite a deal. RS: Okay, so I wanted to also talk to you about rodeoing. I know that’s been a big part of your life, and obviously, you’ve wanted to be a cowboy and have been a cowboy your whole entire life. Now, when I talked to you, you said whenever you competed in rodeos, you did bull dogging? Is that right? MN: First, my first entry was bareback bronc riding. I done that and was making money. I broke my collar bone, and so, my mother, I hadn’t gotten married yet. RS: How old were you, do you think you were around that time when you were? MN: About 17, 18 something like that. RS: So, you’re bareback riding. You’re making money and you break your collar bone and your mom. MN: She talked me into, she begged me not to ride no more. So, I quit that, and I had a good friend, Harley Bethel. We rode together a lot just having a lot of fun. And he was a bulldogger. And he taught me all about bulldogging. RS: So, then you got into that. MN: Yeah, and I went professional. I joined the RCA, Rodeo Cowboy Association, and went into bulldogging. And I’d still do it today if I was able. I loved it. RS: You loved it. MN: Yeah. RS: So, how long would you say you competed doing that? How many years? MN: About six or seven years, something like that. RS: So, was that MN: I was on the police department. RS: And still doing it? MN: Yeah. RS: Oh, wow! MN: I had a guy that would fly me when I entered somewhere and knew I couldn’t get back to do my shift, well, they’d hop in a plane and we’d fly out there and I’d ride somebody else’s bulldogging horse. RS: Right. MN: I’d compete and then I’d come back on the plane and RS: Oh, my goodness. MN: I’d work my shift. RS: So, you were all in, weren’t you? MN: Right. RS: So, did you have any particularly harrowing times rodeoing? Where maybe you got hurt or had any crazy things happen? MN: Well, I broke my ribs a few times. When you’re bulldogging, that left horn comes in there like that, it will whack your ribs, you know. RS: Right. MN: If you’re riding the horse right. I never did get hurt. RS: Doesn’t sound like you had any fear in any aspect of your life. MN: No. RS: You were ninety to nothing in all things you did. MN: I don’t know. RS: And then I also understand you were involved in the Round Up Club and that you played an integral role in restarting the ag and the FFA program here at Bristow. Can you tell me about that? MN: Well, at that time, we didn’t have the FFA. They had, they had done away with it. And, so, we got a petition going and it wound up being FFA again [indecipherable] Vo-Ag. RS: And is that when Mrs. Stephens [Joe Stephens] was hired? MN: Yeah, yeah he was the first teacher. RS: Do you remember around what year that would have been? MN: No, I know my oldest boy, Tim, he just got to compete one year. And then, Tom, then Tom was in it for several years until he graduated. And then Thad, he was in it. It was a good deal. RS: Right. And then what did you do with the Round Up Club? MN: Well, I was still a member, I guess. I don’t go to the meetings. They call it, I’m a member by proxy or something. RS: Right. MN: Yeah, you know I don’t have to pay my dues no more. RS: Right, right. Okay, well now I want to talk about your band, and it’s called Prairie Grass? MN: The first one, I’ve had two or three, but the one just before this we called, well doggone it. We were a cowboy band, and we went all over playing cowboy music, like the Sons of the Pioneers, Gene Autry and all of them. RS: Right. MN: I went by myself a lot of the time when we was out of state, but Lubbock, Texas they had the National Cowboy Symposium, and we got invited to go down to that. That was kind of like Grand Ol’ Opry. RS: Right. It was a big deal. MN: Yeah. So, we played that, well, we played just about everywhere. Several states. RS: And, so, how long would you say you’ve been in a band? MN: Oh, gosh. RS: Pretty much off and on your whole life? MN: Yeah. Really joined up and started a band when I was on the police department. I don’t even know what we called ourselves then, but we played at the Elks Lodge. RS: Just enjoyed playing. MN: Yeah. RS: And, so, your latest band is the Prairie Grass? MN: Prairie Grass. RS: Okay. MN: That name come up, we was up at Owasso [Oklahoma], and it come our turn to play, and we were just a bunch of guys getting together having a good time and kind of jammin’. RS: Right. MN: And they come back there about three minutes before time for us to go on stage and said, what’s the band name? And I looked around and said, my gosh, bluegrass and all that. I said, how about Prairie Grass? I said ‘cause we do a little bit of cowboy music and a little bit of bluegrass. So, that stuck. RS: Well, that was quick thinking, wasn’t it? MN: It had to be. RS: And, so are you still actively playing with them? MN: Yeah. RS: Do you play frequently? MN: Yeah, we don’t make a lot of money doing it, but we have fun. We played just a couple weeks ago at the Rainbow Nursing Home. About wherever they ask us to come. We played out the Freeland. RS: The Freeland Center? MN: Several times, yeah. RS: So, you’ve played pretty much everywhere then, haven’t you? MN: Right. RS: Well, like I had mentioned before, I hear that you like a poet, a song writer, sounds like just a writer in general. How do you, did anything inspire you to be that or where did that come from would you say? MN: Well, I’ve always like the cowboy music like Sons of the Pioneers, [indecipherable]. I went to a couple of the cowboy poet deals, and I didn’t pay that much attention but I got interested in it and was doing it, so. RS: So, do you have quite a few poems and songs and stuff that you’ve written? Do you have a collection? MN: Yeah. RS: Is that something you are going to save for your family? MN: Yeah, most of it. I’ve done a few of them, you know [indecipherable]. RS: Right. And I’ve even asked if you would play a song for us maybe at the end of the interview. We are about to wrap up the interview, but I would love it if you would play a song at the end if you wouldn’t mind. MN: I will. RS: Okay, okay. Well, I’m going to ask you a couple more questions and then you can play us a song. These might make you think a little bit. I’m wondering what you would consider to be the most important invention of your lifetime. MN: Invention? RS: Yeah, like what, so like a lot of people, you know, this wouldn’t apply to you, but some people would say the automobile or the radio or electronics or what would be, can you think of what would be the most? MN: That would be a broad area, because everything, you know, is changed. RS: So much. MN: So much. RS: Right. MN: It probably would be automobile, cars, pickups. RS: So, how do you feel that things have changed in the world since, say, you were a kid growing up? What’s the biggest difference? MN: Oh, gosh. I don’t know how to answer that one. Things have just changed so much. When I look back, you know, everything, everything has changed. RS: Do you wish that there were some things, that were maybe have carried over more from when you were growing up that maybe we have lost as a society now? MN: I guess you could say computer. RS: Right. MN: I’m not a computer person. I hate it. And cell phones. RS: Right. MN: I mean everybody texts. They don’t even call anybody anymore. They just text. I don’t like that at all. RS: So, you wished it was more like it was back in MN: I just refuse to do it. RS: You still got the flip phone, don’t ya?! MN: Yeah, I still got the flip phone, you know I just if somebody texts me, I just don’t answer it. RS: Well, I knew to call you and not text you. So, and this might be another hard question for you, but I’d be interested to see what you have to say. What do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem right now, and how do you think we can solve it? MN: Well, that gets into politics, mostly. If we don’t, if we don’t get a new president, whether it’s Biden, well, it wouldn’t be Biden, probably Trump. It’s changed a lot in four years since Trump got beat the first time. We’re right on the verge of third world war. And open borders. Millions pouring into the United States, and there’s no way that we can support all that, you know. It’s just bad, really bad. RS: So, then you feel like our biggest problem right now is lack of leadership? MN: Right. RS: Okay, alright. I can’t say that I disagree with you. And, then, I also wanted to ask, thinking about historic events, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, even covid, have any types of those things directly affected your life that you can remember? MN: Probably be covid. My wife and I both got the covid because we didn’t take the shots. But I guess that’s, I was in the hospital but my wife didn’t go, but I had to go. RS: So, you ended up in the hospital with it? MN: Yeah. RS: And was that like when it first happened in ’20? MN: Yeah. RS: So, you were pretty sick, then. MN: Yes, and it was just bad. They put me in Hillcrest Hospital and they didn’t even have a room for me. I laid on a gurney outside in the hallway, you know, for days and days. Finally, got a room, and then they put me in a regular room. By that time, I was feeling pretty good and I checked myself out. RS: You were ready to go. MN: Yeah, I came home. RS: Have you had any after ill-effects from, having it? Or did you recovery fully? MN: Pretty well. I haven’t had [indecipherable]. RS: Well, good. MN: Had a lot of broken bones. RS: Well, you’re not supposed to have broken bones, either! MN: And they all came from rodeoing and just home, stuff around the farm. RS: Right. Yeah, because, yeah I can imagine. Well, is there anything else you would like to tell us or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? MN: Well, I think the most important thing anybody can do is accept the Lord, Jesus Christ. RS: Amen! I love that answer. MN: I think that’s the most important thing they can do. We are in a bad situation right now. RS: I agree. I agree. Well, I think I like that answer. Well, I just want to tell you thank you. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archives for the museum. I really appreciate you taking the time to visit with me. Now I’m wondering if we can get you to play us a song. MN: Yeah, I can do that. RS: I’m hoping that this microphone cord doesn’t get in your way. If you need to, you can unclip and set it on the table. MN: I’ll have to scoot back a little bit. RS: Yeah, you can scoot back. MN: Okay, this is just an old. [Sings] RS: Oh, that was awesome! I’m going to have to get you to come play at my house! Thank you so much, Mr. Newell! MN: Well, I’ve enjoyed it. I hope it helps you out in some way. RS: Absolutely! Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for singing for us. MN: Okay, thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0058_Mike_Newell.xml OHP-0058_Mike_Newell.xml
Dublin Core
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Title
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Mike Newell
Description
An account of the resource
Mike shares about his life growing up, his family, his work life in law enforcement and about his love of music and writing.
Identifier
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OHP-0058
Date
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2024/7/2
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audio
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/3747158a2d178ec7706f8c6302504b57.jpg
041ed8080703006aeaa3440356d867c1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Paula Atwell
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0055_Paula_Atwell.xml
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5.4 May 1, 2024 OHP-0055 Paula Atwell OHP-0055 01:29:31 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Paula Atwell Regan Siler 1.0:|23(17)|45(10)|72(4)|91(3)|117(3)|139(5)|180(5)|212(8)|229(16)|257(9)|286(4)|325(5)|351(7)|372(8)|397(9)|423(10)|448(4)|482(5)|510(4)|535(12)|558(11)|585(4)|608(17)|637(4)|659(10)|678(15)|710(11)|728(3)|758(11)|784(7)|817(5)|835(6)|860(3)|885(18)|918(3)|955(11)|979(15)|1012(12)|1039(16)|1079(3)|1108(6)|1142(8)|1161(15)|1188(9)|1217(15)|1241(4)|1266(17)|1294(8)|1335(4)|1371(5)|1400(7)|1416(8)|1435(12)|1455(6)|1489(10)|1512(17)|1545(6)|1570(5)|1608(4)|1643(11)|1673(15)|1703(17)|1750(9)|1781(10)|1800(11)|1831(16)|1852(8)|1886(5)|1918(17)|1937(5)|1962(4)|1989(16)|2016(8)|2051(10)|2074(17)|2099(7)|2112(10)|2125(13)|2147(18)|2171(5)|2189(8)|2210(13)|2225(10)|2258(3)|2276(5)|2293(15)|2315(15)|2333(9)|2353(6)|2368(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0055 Atwell, Paula.mp4 Other video 5 Early Life and Family RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 1, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Paula Atwell at the Bristow Library Annex. She is going to tell me a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Okay, can you please state your full name?
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 ; PA: Paula Kay McGuire Atwell.
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 ; RS: Okay. And do I have permission to record this interview?
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 ; PA: Yes.
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 ; RS: Okay. Where and when were you born?
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 ; PA: I was born in Bristow, Oklahoma, October 22, 1959.
 ; Paula states her full name and where she was born. She tells about her parents and siblings. Paula also talks about where she lived. Paula Kay McGuire Atwell ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Hospital ; Paul Eugene McGuire ; Phyllis Kay Beistle Goodroad ; Marlo Deane Goodroad ; Eva Lynn White ; Michael Allen McGuire ; Sacramento (Calif.) ; Aerojet Life ; Family 0 161 Grandparents PA: Yes. My paternal grandparents lived in Depew [Oklahoma]. They were farmers. They came to Oklahoma, my grandfather came to Oklahoma as a 10-year-old child, as share-croppers. My great-grandfather was an auctioneer. 
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 ; RS: Oh, cool. And, then, did your grandmother work?
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 ; PA: No, just in the home.
 ; 
 ; RS: Just in the home. Okay. And I know you spent a lot of time with your grandparents growing up, can you tell me about each set of them and the things you liked to do when you were with them?
 ; 
 ; PA: My paternal grandparents, which are Ace [4/2/1906-9/22/1999] and Lydia McGuire [8/13/1908-2/25/1994] that lived at Depew [Oklahoma], they were farmers. Paula talks about her grandparents. Her paternal grandparents were farmers and lived in Depew. Paula's maternal grandparents lived in California for a bit and then later moved to Bristow. They owned the Bristow Skating Rink. Depew (Okla.) ; Farmers ; Ace McGuire ; Lydia McGuire ; polio ; Robert Beistle ; Evelyn Beistle ; Sacramento (Calif.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; North Dakota ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Yale (Okla.) ; Tulsa World ; Tulsa Tribune ; Bristow Skating Rink Grandparents 0 349 Memories with Grandparents RS: Okay, well, that’s an iconic place in Bristow. So, do you remember having a lot of fun times there?
 ; 
 ; PA: Oh, yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Did you spend a lot of time there?
 ; 
 ; PA: We were there a lot, yes, yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you and your siblings?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Did you have cousins on that side?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yep.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. So, what that, so say, did you go during the week? Did you go on the weekends? Like?
 ; 
 ; PA: All of the above.
 ; Paula recalls her childhood memories of her grandparents. She talks about spending time at her grandparent's skating rink. Paula also talks about her grandmother sewing clothes for her. Siblings ; Cousins ; Grandparents ; Skating Rink ; Seamstress Memories ; Grandparents 0 455 Ancestry RS: So, what can you tell me about your ancestry? Like where did your family, do you know where your family came from?
 ; 
 ; PA: Mm-hmm. My dad’s side of the family, my paternal family, I mean as way far back, was Ireland and England and Scotland.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; PA: They came over in the 1600s.
 ; Paula talks of her family ancestry. She says her paternal family came from Ireland, England and Scotland. They were sharecroppers and eventually moved to Oklahoma. Ireland ; England ; Scotland ; Ace McGuire ; United States ; Virginia ; Kentucky ; Tennessee ; Missouri ; Oklahoma Ancestry 0 556 Early Childhood RS: Some at that time. Okay. So, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, when I got my first bike, that was heavenly.
 ; 
 ; RS: And at that time when you had your bike, where were, did you live in Bristow at that time?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; Paula recalls her favorite toys and games as a child. She enjoyed riding her bike and playing croquet and badminton. Paula talks about her chores as a child washing and drying the dishes. Bristow (Okla.) ; Croquet ; Badminton (Game) ; Chores Childhood 0 690 Hobbies and Activities as a Child RS: Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? I think I have a feeling I know what one of your hobbies probably was.
 ; 
 ; PA: You’ll have to tell me.
 ; 
 ; RS: Probably reading.
 ; 
 ; PA: Oh, yes!
 ; 
 ; RS: Reading and researching.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes, I did a lot of reading. Going to the library was really a main event of the week. I was just always upset that we were only allowed four books at a time.
 ; 
 ; RS: Are you serious? That’s amazing. So, you were mainly a reader. Did you, so you didn’t have any other types of hobbies that you liked to do when you were a kid.
 ; 
 ; PA: Not really hobbies. My grandmother Beistle, tried to teach me to crochet and knit. Bless her heart, she tried. But I was left handed and she was right handed so we tried every position.
 ; Paula talks about her hobbies as a child. She loved to read. Her grandmother also tried to teach her to crochet and knit. She did make a drawstring purse before deciding that crocheting was not for her. Reading ; Researching ; Library ; Grandmother ; Crochet ; Knit Hobbies ; Activities 0 888 Schooling RS: Right, okay. Alright, well, let’s talk a little bit about your school life. Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, I went to kindergarten in Bristow. I went to first grade at Depew. Second grade at Bristow. Third grade at Kellyville, and back to Bristow until I graduated. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Wow. And that’s just because your parents moved around a lot? Was that because of jobs?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah, uh-huh.
 ; 
 ; RS: Is the reason they moved.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; Paula discusses her schooling growing up. She attended Bristow, Depew and Kellyville Schools. One of her favorite classes was Geography. She attributes her love for Genealogy to her Senior English teacher, Carolyn Foster. Mrs. Foster assigned her class to build a family tree. That assignment sparked Paula's interest in researching family history. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Depew Public Schools (Depew, Okla.) ; Kellyville Public Schools (Kellyville, Okla.) ; Geography ; English ; Nancy Carolyn Foster ; Genealogy Schooling 0 1036 Choir RS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations throughout your school time?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, in school, there was chorus, you know that kind of thing. Never did play in the band. I was in chorus. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Did you enjoy that? 
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Were you good at it?
 ; 
 ; PA: Mmmmm…yeah. Well, it was a group. I never solo’d, never solo’d.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. And was that more so in high school?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes. Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, okay. But no other, so you were in choir, and that was pretty much?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah, pretty much.
 ; Paula recalls being involved in choir in high school. She was not involved in many other organizations. Chorus ; Choir ; High school Choir 0 1076 Reading RS: Okay. I was going to ask if you enjoyed reading. I know that’s funny, because I already know that answer, but go ahead and tell us like what types of books you enjoyed as a young person or growing up. Like what were your favorites?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, really, fiction, mostly. I read westerns. Biographies. History. There was really nothing I didn’t like.
 ; Paula loved reading as a child. She enjoyed mostly fiction. She said she also read westerns, biographies and history. Fiction ; Westerns ; Biographies ; History Reading 0 1108 Food at School RS: Right, right. Yeah, for me that’s a funny question to ask you because I know the answer to that. Do you remember if you packed a lunch or ate in the cafeteria growing up?
 ; 
 ; PA: Both.
 ; 
 ; RS: Both. Which did you prefer?
 ; 
 ; PA: I don’t know if I, I don’t know.
 ; 
 ; RS: You don’t remember?
 ; 
 ; PA: No.
 ; 
 ; RS: You don’t remember?
 ; 
 ; PA: It’s just according to what was in the cafeteria that day if I took my lunch or not.
 ; 
 ; RS: Right. Okay. I can remember some of the cafeteria food, and I always usually had to eat in the cafeteria, and I was always jealous of the kids that got to bring their lunch, because it seemed like they had better stuff.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah.
 ; Paula said she ate both from the cafeteria and from home. If she did not like what they were serving in the cafeteria then she would pack her lunch. Cafeteria ; Lunch Food ; Cafeteria 0 1143 Favorite Subject RS: So, I know you enjoyed school and pretty much all aspects of it. Did you have a particular favorite subject?
 ; 
 ; PA: History.
 ; 
 ; RS: History.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; RS: I know that answer, too. Do you remember any of your history teachers, aside from, I know that Mrs. Foster was your English teacher and got you involved in the genealogy, but did you have any history teachers that were influential for you?
 ; 
 ; PA: Not particularly. I just enjoyed the subject itself. And I learned from all of them.
 ; Paula's favorite subject in school was history. History ; Nancy Carolyn Foster ; English ; Genealogy Subject ; School 0 1177 Childhood Homes RS: That was good enough for you, huh? Okay, well let’s talk a little bit about the house or houses that you grew up in. I know, early on, you kind of moved around a little bit, and you might not have a real huge memory because you were pretty young. But, can you tell me about like your earliest house you remember living in?
 ; 
 ; PA: The earliest house, that I don’t really remember, but it still stands, was a shotgun house. A little tiny house. In fact, that was the house we lived in when I was born. We only lived there a few months because we went to California, so I could take you to that house, but it was little bitty.
 ; Paula recalls the homes she lived in growing up. The first one she remembers was a shotgun house. She lived in a farmhouse in Depew. She loved the home they lived at in Kellyville. It had a barn with a hay loft. She loved to climb up in the hay loft and jump off. California ; Eva Lynn White ; Depew (Okla.) ; Kellyville (Okla.) Childhood ; Home 0 1289 Pirate Inn Drive-In PA: No, we lived on 7th Street for a while. And then my mom and dad bought the Pirate Inn Drive-In on Roland. And they bought a mobile home to put beside it. And we lived in that mobile home for a couple of years, I think, there. And then my two uncles, my dad’s brothers had a construction company. Anyway, they built mobile home parks. And they built Evergreen Mobile Home Park west of town, and my dad and mom and my mom’s parents, bought that and we moved our mobile home out there, and we lived there in the mobile home park.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, that’s news to me, that’s a new one for me. I didn’t know that. That your family built that mobile home park. I guess it’s not in your family now?
 ; 
 ; PA: No, no, they sold it probably in 1980 or around there.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so, before we move off this, can you tell me about the Pirate Drive Inn? I don’t really have any history on that.
 ; 
 ; PA: Okay, that was a hamburger place.
 ; Paula's parents bought a hamburger place called the Pirate Inn Drive-In. It was located on Roland. Paula was the official dish washer. Her parents later sold the restaurant when Paula was in high school. 7th Street ; Pirate Inn Drive-In ; Roland ; Evergreen Mobile Home Park ; Fogle Car Lot ; RCS Electric ; Windmill Steakhouse Pirate Inn Drive-In 0 1463 Fun in the Woods RS: Well, that’s interesting. I didn’t know, I didn’t have any history of the Pirate Drive Inn. Okay, well let’s circle back to your home life. Do you remember as a youngster where you spent most of your time? Like was it in the house? In your room? Outside? Maybe probably in the red barn in Kellyville?
 ; 
 ; PA: We could have been in the barn, yeah. Well, when we were like with family or cousins or, especially in the summer times, we were with grandparents and relatives a lot. But most of them were country folks. We spent a lot of time out in the woods, that kind of thing. Just walking around getting lost.
 ; 
 ; RS: That was always my favorite thing to do when I was a kid. Me and my cousins would go out in the woods, and we would be gone all day long and come back to eat occasionally and.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes, yes. Yeah, we wouldn’t come back until it was dark. You know, we would build forts and.
 ; Paula loved playing in the woods as a child. Paula and her siblings and cousins would walk around getting lost and building forts. They would play outside until dark. Pirate Inn Drive-In ; Kellyville (Okla.) Woods ; Fun 0 1549 Mealtimes as a Family RS: Everybody. Well, that sounds like fun. Okay, so, tell me a little bit about what meal times were like in your family. Were you a sit down at the table together every night kind of family?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Did you eat at certain…tell me about that a little bit.
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, we would just eat when daddy would come home. We just had dinner around 5:00, 5:30, 6:00 something like that. But, yes, it was a sit-down family meal every night.
 ; 
 ; RS: Every night. I like that, too. And you already told me that you and Eva had to
 ; 
 ; PA: Wash the dishes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Wash the dishes and clean up. Do you remember having, like, a favorite meal that your mom cooked? 
 ; 
 ; PA: She was a good cook, so not really a favorite, but what we really called our special treat was when she would fry chicken.
 ; Paula's family sat down for dinner together every night. They typically ate around 5 or 6 every night. Paula and her sister helped with the clean-up and dishes. It was a special treat when Paula's mom made fried chicken. Dinner ; Eva Lynn White Mealtimes ; Family 0 1615 Community Activities RS: Well, that’s the kind of mom to have, huh? Okay, well thinking about to your life growing up, what were some of your favorite, like, community activities? For instance, maybe, like Western Heritage Days, day camp, parade, county fair, etc. Can you tell me anything about your life growing up in the Bristow area and the things that you enjoyed to do community-wise?
 ; 
 ; PA: We did go to all the Western Heritage parades. Sometimes, there was a few years when I was younger that we would, actually, dress up in the long dresses and try to look like
 ; 
 ; RS: A pioneer.
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah, a pioneer. My cousins, some of my cousins were in the different round up clubs, so they would be IN the parade, so we’d get to see them. 
 ; 
 ; RS: What was your favorite thing about the Western Heritage Day parade? 
 ; 
 ; PA: Oh, probably just all of it. There were so many different round-up clubs from all over and lots of participation. It was just exciting.
 ; Paula attended the Western Heritage parades growing up. When she was younger, she would dress up as a pioneer. Paula also was a part of the Bristow Day Camp during the summers. She recalls the county fairs during her childhood. She also really enjoyed the Carnival as a child. Bristow (Okla.) ; Western Heritage Day ; Rodeo ; Bristow Day Camp ; Quonset huts ; County Fair ; Lydia McGuire ; Carnival Community ; Activities 0 1910 Swimming at the Bristow Pool RS: Okay, alright. And can you think of any other community activities in Bristow that you participated in throughout your young life?
 ; 
 ; PA: We always had season tickets for the swimming pool.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; Paula always had season tickets for the swimming pool. She learned to swim there. In the summer her mom would drop Paula and her siblings off at the pool and let them stay for a few hours. Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Swimming Pool Swimming ; Bristow Swimming Pool 0 1996 Spending Allowance at Ben Franklin RS: Okay. Well, let’s talk about, what were some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town growing up. Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; PA: Probably, for me, was Ben Franklin.
 ; 
 ; RS: And tell me what Ben Franklin is.
 ; 
 ; PA: That was like a little five and dime store. We were given an allowance, and we could, mom usually went once every week or once every two weeks or something, and we could spend our allowance there. And it was usually a quarter. We’d get a quarter allowance. I would not spend my quarters for a few weeks, and so I could buy something bigger and better than my brother and sister.
 ; Bristow had a five and dime store called the Ben Franklin. Paula and her siblings loved to spend their allowance there. Paula would sometimes save her money until she could buy a 45 record. Ben Franklin ; 45 Record Allowance ; Ben Franklin 0 2108 Shamas Dry Goods RS: Okay, so, you’re biggest and best memory is the Ben Franklin. What about any other businesses that were, I guess, notable back at that time in Bristow, whether it be a restaurant or maybe a clothing store or something like that? Do you have any?
 ; 
 ; PA: I know going with my grandparents, we went to Shamas a lot with them, Shamas Dry Goods.
 ; 
 ; RS: Shamas Dry Goods. Okay. And, so, what was there?
 ; 
 ; PA: Clothes.
 ; Paula enjoyed going to Shamas Dry Goods growing up. Her grandfather purchased his clothing (mainly overalls) there. They sold cowboy boots and western wear. It was located by Community Bank. Ben Franklin ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Shamas Dry Goods ; Community Bank ; Los Arcos Shamas Dry Goods 0 2182 Favorite Food in Bristow RS: That’s cool. Okay. Did you have a favorite place to eat in town? I guess maybe your
 ; 
 ; PA: The Pirate Inn!
 ; 
 ; RS: Your Pirate Inn was probably one of them, wasn’t it? Was there any other places that were special? I know back when I was growing up, we didn’t get to eat out that often, so, I mean it was a special treat whenever we did.
 ; 
 ; PA: We went to Tastee Freeze, Frosty Freeze.
 ; Paula talks about the different restaurants she enjoyed in Bristow as a child. Of course she enjoyed her own family's restaurant, The Pirate Inn. She also enjoyed visiting the Tastee Freeze and the Frosty Freeze. Pirate Inn ; Tastee Freeze ; Frosty Freeze Food ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 2247 Dragging Main RS: Oh, that sounds good! Did you have, once you became a teenager, where was, you know growing up for us dragging was the cool and fun thing. What did you
 ; 
 ; PA: That was it.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you drug main, too?
 ; 
 ; PA: Right!
 ; Paula talks about dragging Main as a teenager. Paula and her friends would drive down to Frosty Freeze. If they parked, they would park at the Safeway parking lot. Stop-n-Shop ; Pizza Hut ; Frosty Freeze ; Community Bank ; Dollar General Main Street 0 2304 Drive-In Movies RS: And, was there any other, at the time you grew up, were there any, I mean, I know back in the day there was like a movie theater. Was there anything like that at that time?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes, oh yeah, the drive-in. Drive-in movies. Yes.
 ; Paula enjoyed attending the drive-in movies growing up. The theater was located out west on 66 in Bristow. Wal-Mart (Firm) ; Evergreen Mobile Home Park ; Timber Trail Housing Drive-In Movies 0 2354 Clothing RS: Okay. Cool. So, where did you buy your clothes or did your grandmother make your clothes growing up?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, yeah, and mom made our clothes, too, when we were smaller. We bought at JC Penney’s here in town.
 ; Paula shopped for clothing at JCPenney when she was young. Also, her mother and grandmother sewed some of her clothing. JCPenney Clothing 0 2427 Family Automobiles RS: Right. Okay, well, let’s talk about how your family got around. Do you remember, what is your memory of the first car, what car do you have the first memory of? Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; PA: Oh, I couldn’t tell you what it was. I couldn’t tell what color it was. I want to say it was like a baby blue.
 ; 
 ; RS: A baby blue something.
 ; Paula believes her family had a baby blue car when she was young. She recalls her family owning a Buick and learning how to drive in that car. Buick automobile ; Driver's Education Family ; Automobiles 0 2512 Vacations RS: Parents. Okay. Did you go on vacations in your car? 
 ; 
 ; PA: We did. Most of the time it was back and forth to California to visit family. But there were stops along the way in the Grand Canyon and different places.
 ; 
 ; RS: Are there any of those types of memories that really stick out to you, like any place that you stopped? I can imagine the Grand Canyon would had to have been one of them.
 ; Paula and her family would sometimes visit family in California. They would sometimes stop at popular vacation spots such as the Grand Canyon. Paula recalls struggling with car sickness on these trips. California ; Grand Canyon ; Route 66 ; San Francisco (Calif.) Vacations 0 2612 First Car RS: Oh, that would be terrible. And you said that driver’s ed taught you how to drive. Do you remember what your first car was?
 ; 
 ; PA: 1966 red Mustang.
 ; Paula recalls her first car, a 1966 red Mustang. When she was sixteen years old, Paula's father surprised her with this Mustang. Ford Mustang ; McAlester (Okla.) Car 0 2703 Television RS: Oh, I love it. Okay, well what kind of entertainment did you guys enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV? If you did, what were, do you remember some of your favorite programs?
 ; 
 ; PA: We did watch some TV. It really wasn’t like a big deal at our house. But on Sunday evenings, I believe, Walt Disney was on, so we would get ready for school, you know, take our baths and put our pajamas on and that kind of thing, and then we would get to watch Walt Disney. Once it was over, then it was bedtime.
 ; Paula recalls watching television as a child. Paula and her siblings would typically watch Walt Disney on Sunday evenings. Paula also remembers staying up late to watch the landing on the moon when she was around 9. Television ; Walt Disney Television 0 2829 Family Doctor RS: Stood out to you the most. What was your medical like growing up? Did you have a family doctor?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: And who was your doctor?
 ; 
 ; PA: Dr. Jones.
 ; 
 ; RS: And was he a Bristow doctor?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah.
 ; Paula and her family went to Dr. Jones as their family doctor. His office was located on 4th Street in Bristow. W.E. Jones ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Doctor ; Health Department Family ; Doctor 0 2887 Childhood Illnesses RS: Okay, okay. Do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics growing up that either that you or your family experienced?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, I had the measles five times.
 ; 
 ; RS: Five times?!
 ; 
 ; PA: Five times. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Did they not have the vaccine then?
 ; 
 ; PA: No, not then.
 ; Paula recalls having the measles five times in her childhood. She also mentions she had the chicken pox. Paula also had mumps one Christmas and missed all of the festivities. Measles ; Vaccines ; Chicken pox ; epidemic ; Mumps ; Christmas ; Covid-19 Childhood ; Illness 0 2990 Church RS: Did you attend a church growing up?
 ; 
 ; PA: Off and on with friends. 
 ; 
 ; RS: And did you
 ; 
 ; PA: And family. I went to church with family, too.
 ; Paula attended church occasionally with friends and family growing up. She recalls visiting Trinity Baptist with friends when she was in grade school. Paula also visited Bristow Holiness Church with family members. She also went to Falls Creek in the summer with the Baptist church. Trinity Baptist Church ; Bristow Holiness Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Cushing (Okla.) ; Falls Creek (Okla.) Church 0 3210 Holidays RS: Okay. So, let’s talk about how your family celebrated holidays. Can you give me a for instance of how you celebrated Christmas in your home in regards to gifts or food, decorations? So, tell me about a family Christmas at your house.
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, Santa Claus came.
 ; Paula recalls the holidays as a child. At Christmas Santa would fill their stockings and bring them big, unwrapped gifts. Her family decorated a live tree with tinsel. Paula and her family went to her grandparents' house for the Thanksgiving dinner. Paula also recalls shooting fireworks off for the 4th of July. She remembers celebrating Halloween also ; she went trick-or-treating around town. Holidays ; Christmas ; Santa Claus ; Thanksgiving ; 4th of July ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Halloween Holidays 0 3429 First Jobs RS: Those plastic masks that make you sweat and yeah, that you can’t see out of. Okay, well, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; PA: Mmmm. No, well, no. There was just a gamut of things. Sometimes I would do, I would think, I want to be a teacher. Or I’m going to be a nurse. Then I’d realize, oh no, they have to give shots. I don’t want to be a nurse. No, nothing that I actually followed through with.
 ; Paula talks about some of the first jobs she ever held. She of course helped in the restaurant her family owned. She also babysat in the summer and in the evenings for neighbors. Teacher ; Nurse Job 0 3499 Work at the Hospital PA: And my first official job, you know, real paying job was I worked at the hospital in the office.
 ; 
 ; RS: And that’s when you were in high school, wasn’t it?
 ; 
 ; PA: Yeah, junior and senior year.
 ; Paula's first official job was working in the office at the hospital. She would admit patients and work on the paperwork. She also worked the switchboard. She was about sixteen or seventeen years old. She worked at the hospital after school and on the weekends. Hospital ; High school ; Mustang (automobile) ; American National Bank Work ; Hospital 0 3686 Work at the Bank RS: Yes. That’s good. So, tell me about some of the other jobs you held throughout your life. I know you mentioned you went from the hospital to the bank. And then.
 ; 
 ; PA: I was there 12 years.
 ; 
 ; RS: Twelve years at the bank.
 ; 
 ; PA: I started out as a teller.
 ; Paula worked at the American National Bank in Bristow for 12 years. She worked as a teller and then later in the loan department. Bristow Hospital ; American National Bank ; Teller ; Loan Department Work ; Bank 0 3729 Work at Rainbow Healthcare PA: To Rainbow Healthcare Center.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. 
 ; 
 ; PA: In the office there, bookkeeper.
 ; 
 ; RS: And you were there how long?
 ; 
 ; PA: I was there nine years.
 ; Paula later worked at Rainbow Healthcare for 9 years. She worked in the office as a bookkeeper. Rainbow Healthcare Center ; bookkeeper ; History ; Genealogy Work ; Rainbow Healthcare Center 0 3771 Work at the Doctor's Office RS: Oh no, you went to the doc
 ; 
 ; PA: Doctor’s office.
 ; 
 ; RS: That’s right.
 ; 
 ; PA: Went to work for Dr. Krug.
 ; 
 ; RS: Krug.
 ; 
 ; PA: David Krug.
 ; 
 ; RS: And then Smith [Carl Smith] and Sarah [Sarah Pinson].
 ; After working at Rainbow Healthcare, Paula went to a doctor's office to work. It was originally Dr. Krug's office, then later Carl Smith and Sarah Pinson's office. Paula worked there for 19 years until she retired. David Krug ; Carl Smith ; Sarah Pinson Work ; Doctor's office 0 3788 Bristow Historical Society RS: And then I also wanted to ask you about when you came on with the Bristow Historical Society and how that has affected your life.
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, I was always, as far as I can remember, I was always a member from back in the 80’s.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; PA: But then after retirement, I started volunteering.
 ; Paula has been volunteering at the Bristow Historical Society for about 4 or 5 years. She is a great asset to their research department. She is excited for Bristow's 125th birthday this year. Bristow Historical Society ; Genealogy ; Bristow (Okla.) Bristow Historical Society 0 3915 College Classes RS: Yeah. Okay. Did you attend college? And if you did, did you enjoy that experience?
 ; 
 ; PA: I did. It’s while I worked at American National Bank. They paid for any college we wanted to pursue.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh wow!
 ; 
 ; PA: And I did take 15 hours at Tulsa Junior College [Tulsa Community College], of course, that was evenings.
 ; Paula attended Tulsa Community College. She took classes in the evenings while she worked at American National Bank. They paid for employees to further their education. She took 15 hours of classes in History and Sociology. American National Bank ; Tulsa Community College ; History ; Sociology ; Tracy Kelly College 0 3964 Marriage RS: Yeah, for real. Okay. Well, let’s circle back to your family, and let’s talk about your spouse. What is his name and when did you meet?
 ; 
 ; PA: His name is Gary Wayne Atwell [3/8/1958]. He moved to Bristow when he was a junior and I was a sophomore. Through a friend, he was bashful kind of like I was, and so he asked a mutual friend if I would go out with him. And, so, the mutual friend asked me and I said, okay. So, we went and the rest is history.
 ; Paula is married to Gary Atwell. They met when he moved to Bristow when Paula was a sophomore, and he was a junior. They began dating shortly after. They were married in April of 1978. Gary Wayne Atwell ; New Year's Eve Marriage 0 4140 Wedding and Early Married Life RS: April of ’78 is when you were married. April 7, 1978. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your wedding, what it was like? Like when and where?
 ; 
 ; PA: We got married in at the Assembly of God Church that is no longer standing. It was on Chestnut Street. We were married by Gene, I mean, sorry, Joe Jackson.
 ; Paula and Gary married April 7 of 1978. They had the ceremony at the Assembly of God Church in Bristow. Joe Jackson officiated the ceremony. It was a typical church wedding with many family members and friends in attendance. They lived in a mobile home park in Bristow and then later moved to a little house in Depew. Assembly of God Church ; Joe Jackson ; Depew (Okla.) Wedding ; Marriage 0 4236 Children RS: Right, so, speaking of your children, tell me their names and their dates of birth.
 ; 
 ; PA: Okay. My first son was Clinton Wayne Atwell. He was born October 19, 1981. My other son, Curtis Paul Atwell, and he was born May 4, 1984.
 ; Paula has two sons, Clinton and Curtis. She worked most of their childhood. Clinton Wayne Atwell ; Curtis Paul Atwell Children 0 4278 Sons and Their Activities RS: The one year you took off with them. What do you feel were the challenges of being a mom during that time period and trying to work and do all the things?
 ; 
 ; PA: Well, Gary worked at Kwikset, and he worked second shift, so the boys or I didn’t really get to see him until the weekend. You know, because he worked evenings, and of course, we were gone to school and work during the day, so we crossed paths. So, that would be probably the most challenging.
 ; Paula stayed busy keeping up with her sons' activities as a young mother. They were involved in cub scouts and baseball. She stayed involved in the scouts also as a den mother. Gary Wayne Atwell ; Kwikset ; Cub Scouts ; Den Mother ; Baseball ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Sons ; activities 0 4357 Grandchildren RS: Well, good. It was probably a good thing because it sounds like you had your hands full. Then do you have any grandchildren, and if so, names and ages?
 ; 
 ; PA: I have one granddaughter. She’s Savanna Grace [10/24/2019].
 ; 
 ; RS: I love that name, Savanna Grace. And how old is she?
 ; 
 ; PA: She’s four and a half.
 ; Paula has one grandchild, a granddaughter named Savanna Grace. She is 4 years old. She is a farm girl and loves to collect eggs from the chickens. She attends a daycare in Okmulgee and has learned the Creek language. Savanna loves to swing when she visits her grandparents' home. Savanna Grace Atwell ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Creek language Grandchildren 0 4432 Bristow Genealogy Group RS: That’s the best. Well, that sounds like fun. Okay, so we’ve talked some about your love of history, and I know you said that Mrs. Foster was the one that kind of sparked that with your genealogy assignment. I know you had also told me that you were part of the Bristow group and the Bristow group that did genealogy and then you ended up teaching there. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
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 ; PA: That started, like, in the 80’s, early 80’s. Which I was a member back then.
 ; Paula was a part of the Bristow Genealogy Group. It began in the early 1980's. She taught with the group for many years. It recently dissolved in January of this year (2024). Nancy Carolyn Foster ; Bristow Genealogy Group Bristow Genealogy Group 0 4512 Family History RS: In January. And then we’ve already talked about you started volunteering at the depot probably in the last 4ish years, 4-5 years. Do you have any wisdom to share about seeking out a person’s family history and the importance of it?
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 ; PA: Well, you don’t know until you look for anything. Paula enjoys family history and believes learning your own family history is very important. In researching, she has learned that she has family ties to some involved in the Salem witch hunts. She also has connections to Abraham Lincoln. Salem Witch Hunts ; Abraham Lincoln ; Kentucky ; Indiana ; Lincoln Law Office ; Revolutionary War Family ; History 0 4715 Red Shoes RS: Yes, absolutely. Well, I definitely, just with my experience with doing the oral histories and working with the historical society, it’s really sparked my interest and made me wish I would have done some of the same things, you know, before my dad passed away or before my mom had her stroke, and you know, was unable to talk now. So, I think it’s a really neat thing to leave to your family. You’ve done all the leg work, you know. And it’s just all right there for them to be able to read about. Okay, so, I spoke with your siblings to see if they had any interesting things to add about you, and Michael told me to ask you about the red shoes. Paula's brother told Regan to ask Paula about the red shoes. Apparently, their mother frequently had them wearing red tennis shoes. They look back on old photos and always notice the res shoes. Historical Society ; Michael Allen McGuire Shoes 0 4790 Breaking Bones RS: And the Eva wanted me to ask you about learning to drive a stick shift and what happened with that.
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 ; PA: Ohhhh! Oh, well, okay, I’ll confess. I’ve broken two bones and neither one were mine. 
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 ; RS: Oh, my goodness! You have to, you have to spill what happened.
 ; Paula's sister, Eva told Regan to ask Paula about learning to drive a stick shift. Apparently, Paula was attempting to start the car and her friend got out to look under the hood. Paula gave the car gas when she started it, and it rolled and pinned her friend against the carport. Her friend broke her femur. As children, Paula was pushing her little sister, Eva on the swings, Eva fell off and broke her arm. Paula jokes that she has broken two bones, and neither were hers. Eva Lynn White ; Stick-shift ; Femur Bones 0 5012 The Computer RS: Oh, I bet. Okay, so what would, this is one you’re probably gonna have to think about. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
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 ; PA: Computer.
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 ; RS: The computer.
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 ; PA: Yeah, how could I do my research without my computer.
 ; Regan asks Paula what she thinks the most important invention was during her lifetime. Paula says the computer, without the computer she could not do her research. computer ; Research computer 0 5030 A Simple Life RS: This is true. You know, I would probably agree with that. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
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 ; PA: It’s much busier, I think. Not as friendly. I hope it turns back that way, but life was so much more simple.
 ; Paula talks about how the world is different now than when she was a child. She believes it is much busier and definitely not as friendly. She states that life was much simpler back then. World ; simple Life 0 5094 Nation's Biggest Problem PA: Our biggest problem?
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 ; RS: What’s our nation’s biggest problem right now? I’m challenging you, Paula.
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 ; PA: I think it’s probably, well, I don’t know. I think now people think everything should be handed to them. And I think everyone needs to get to work.
 ; Regan asks Paula what she believes is the nation's biggest problem. Paula believes that the current generation needs to learn to get to work and that everything is not handed to them. Nation ; Philosophy ; self-worth problem 0 5138 Oklahoma City Bombing RS: I would agree with you. How have historic events such as, say like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, world wars, covid, etc…how has that affected you? You can pick one or several. Do you have any memories of, you know, how you felt during those times?
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 ; PA: Well, sad and devastated a lot. But as far as the Oklahoma City Bombing, my older son, Clinton was with an FFA group in Oklahoma City when that happened.
 ; Paula recalls when the Oklahoma City Bombing occurred. She was working at Rainbow Healthcare when news came of the bombing. It dawned on her that her son, Clinton, was in Oklahoma City with his FFA group. Thankfully Clinton and his group were safe in their motel room. Clinton Wayne Atwell ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; FFA ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Oklahoma City Bombing 0 5284 Wisdom for Future Generations RS: Oh, wow. I would have been like, it’s time for you to come home. Oh, my goodness. Is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
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 ; PA: Find out where you come from. You know, as far as
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 ; RS: You have to know where you came from to know where you’re going.
 ; Paula leaves us with a bit of wisdom. She believes that people need to find out where they came from. Wisdom ; Oral History Archives ; Museum Wisdom 0 MP3 Paula shares about her history growing up in the Bristow area, about her family and work life and her love for genealogy and history. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 1, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Paula Atwell at the Bristow Library Annex. She is going to tell me a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Okay, can you please state your full name? PA: Paula Kay McGuire Atwell. RS: Okay. And do I have permission to record this interview? PA: Yes. RS: Okay. Where and when were you born? PA: I was born in Bristow, Oklahoma, October 22, 1959. RS: Okay, and were you born at the Bristow Hospital? PA: Yes. RS: Okay. Can you tell me about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parent’s names, and then I know you told me you had step-father, too, so tell me his name. PA: My dad is Paul Eugene McGuire [2/17/1937]. My mom is Phyllis Kay Beistle Goodroad [10/5/1939]. And my step-dad was Bud Goodroad [Marlo Deane “Bud” Goodroad 8/27/1933 – 10/1/2022]. RS: Bud Goodroad, okay. Do you have any siblings, and what are their names? PA: I have a sister and brother, Eva Lynn White [3/21/1961]. She was born in Sacramento [California]. My brother, Michael Allen McGuire [11/10/1962], was born in Sacramento, also. RS: Okay, and are you the oldest? PA: Yes. RS: You’re the oldest. So, it’s you, Eva and then Michael. Okay. What type of work did your parents do? PA: My dad worked in Sacramento [California]. When I was born here, after just a few months, we moved to California. He worked for Aerojet in Sacramento, or a surrounding town, I’m not sure which one, but anyway, he worked for Aerojet, and he worked on the Saturn surface to air missiles. We were there in Sacramento for about five years. My dad decided that California was not a place to raise children, so we moved back to Oklahoma before I started school. RS: Okay. But your siblings were also born there? PA: They were born there, yes. RS: So, you were born here. They were born there. PA: Yes. RS: Okay. Did other family members live nearby PA: Yes. RS: When you came back home? PA: Yes. RS: Okay. Can you tell me about them? PA: In Oklahoma? RS: Mm-hm. PA: Yes. My paternal grandparents lived in Depew [Oklahoma]. They were farmers. They came to Oklahoma, my grandfather came to Oklahoma as a 10-year-old child, as share-croppers. My great-grandfather was an auctioneer. RS: Oh, cool. And, then, did your grandmother work? PA: No, just in the home. RS: Just in the home. Okay. And I know you spent a lot of time with your grandparents growing up, can you tell me about each set of them and the things you liked to do when you were with them? PA: My paternal grandparents, which are Ace [4/2/1906-9/22/1999] and Lydia McGuire [8/13/1908-2/25/1994] that lived at Depew [Oklahoma], they were farmers. My grandfather contracted polio as a six-year-old, and he was crippled in one leg. They were share-croppers. He farmed. He also ran a road grater. Worked for the county and did very well. He used a cane to walk, but he didn’t ever let it get him down or I can’t do this or I can’t do that. He could do anything he set his mind to. RS: And what are some things you liked to do when you were at their house? PA: Well, we just the cows, the chickens, the garden, picking blackberries. His pick up had cattle panels on the back, and we would climb up on those cattle panels and take off down the county road. It was just a lot of fun. RS: Right. PA: We had lots of cousins. My dad had, there were 11 kids in his family, so there was always lots of people at my grandparent’s house. RS: So, it was always a fun place to be with lots of things to do. PA: Right. RS: So, I remember you telling me that those were kind of your country grandparents, and then you had your city grandparents. PA: Yes. RS: So, can you tell me about your maternal grandparents and their names? PA: Mm-hmm. That was Robert [8/29/1913-10/5/1989] and Evelyn Beistle [Evelyn Rusher Beistle 3/14/1912-12/24/2000]. They, actually, lived in Sacramento [California] when we lived out there. And we had other extended family out there, too. RS: So, did they move back whenever you moved back? PA: It was a few years later. RS: Okay. PA: Yeah. Probably four or five years later. They moved back. RS: To Depew? PA: To Bristow. RS: To Bristow, okay. PA: They were, my grandpa was born in North Dakota and came to the Tulsa area when he was 13, I believe. And my grandmother was born in Yale, Oklahoma, so she was coming back home when they came back from California. But, they, my grandpa was, he worked as the Tulsa World, Tulsa Tribune agent for many, many years. Had newspaper boys. That kind of thing. Later on, they owned the Bristow Skating Rink. RS: Okay, well, that’s an iconic place in Bristow. So, do you remember having a lot of fun times there? PA: Oh, yes. RS: Did you spend a lot of time there? PA: We were there a lot, yes, yes. RS: So, you and your siblings? PA: Yes. RS: Did you have cousins on that side? PA: Yep. RS: Okay. So, what that, so say, did you go during the week? Did you go on the weekends? Like? PA: All of the above. RS: All of the above. Well, that’s a fun place. You were probably considered, like the cool kid, to have grandparents that had the skating rink. That was a big deal. I mean that was a big deal even whenever I was young to get to go skating. PA: Yeah. RS: Well, that’s fun. PA: Yes. RS: Okay, so is that one of your main fun memories that you have with your city grandparents? PA: Yeah, yeah, a lot. We just spent a lot of time with them. My grandmother liked to cook, of course, sew. I would be at work, you know, after I graduated, went to work, she would call and say, I’ve made you a new dress. Come by after work and pick it up. RS: Oh, fun! PA: So, that’s just, we grew up right next to them. RS: So, were you happy about that? Was she a great seamstress? PA: Oh, yes! Absolutely. RS: And that probably helped a lot just. PA: She made all my mom’s and her sister’s clothes. RS: Oh, wow. PA: Yeah. RS: Okay. So, country grandparents, you enjoyed all the country activities, the farming stuff. The city grandparents you enjoyed the skating rink. Would you say that spent equal time with the grandparents? Did you spend more time with one than the other? PA: No, I would say pretty equal. RS: And you feel like they were pretty influential PA: Absolutely. RS: In your upbringing. PA: Yes. RS: So, what can you tell me about your ancestry? Like where did your family, do you know where your family came from? PA: Mm-hmm. My dad’s side of the family, my paternal family, I mean as way far back, was Ireland and England and Scotland. RS: Okay. PA: They came over in the 1600s. RS: Okay. PA: And then just migrated here. My grandpa, Ace McGuire, their family, when they came to the US, of course, it wasn’t US back then, through Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, this direction, to Missouri. And, then, in 1917, I believe is when they actually came down to Oklahoma. And they came for the cotton. Cotton was king around, and that’s what they did. They were sharecroppers. RS: I think you and I have talked about this before, it seems like a lot of the older oral histories I’ve worked on, that a lot of people came from Missouri. I wonder what the draw, just the cotton was the draw to come to Oklahoma? PA: I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think they heard that Oklahoma had fertile lands and land that they could, they saw opportunity. RS: Do you, I guess was oil, was that a thing at that time, or that was a little later, right? PA: It was a little later as far as the oil boom, but they were doing some exploration. RS: Some at that time. Okay. So, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played? PA: Well, when I got my first bike, that was heavenly. RS: And at that time when you had your bike, where were, did you live in Bristow at that time? PA: Yes. RS: And, so, were you in town or were you in the country? PA: In the country. RS: In the country. So, you had the freedom to just ride like the wind. PA: Yes, we had a really long, long driveway, and that’s where I learned to ride the bike. RS: Well, that’s cool. What about any games? Do you remember playing like any sorts of games with your siblings? PA: Yeah, we had croquet and badminton. Of course, we had the swing set, a whirly bird. RS: A whirly bird? What is that? PA: Uh huh. It was a four-seater that just went around in circles, but you had to pump it. RS: Okay. PA: You know, with your arms and your legs, you pumped. And then it twirled around. RS: See, I think that’s why, like kids these days, they don’t play like that anymore. I think that’s good. Did you have any chores around your house that you were expected to do growing up? PA: Oh yeah, we always had to clean our room and dust our furniture, vacuum, wash the dishes. Eva and I took turns washing and drying. So, yeah, we had our responsibilities. RS: Did you have any outside chores that you were responsible for? PA: No, not, no. RS: Mainly inside. So, did you get along with your siblings? Did those chores PA: Why, no. We were normal in every way. RS: Right, right. So, was there a fight over who washed and who dried and? PA: No, we had to take a week [indecipherable]. We solved that real quick. RS: Your mom was probably like, okay, this is how it’s gonna be. PA: Yes. RS: Did you have friends that you played with or did you mainly just play with your siblings? PA: No, we all had friends. RS: So, was it a PA: We’d go to their house and they’d come to our house. Yes. RS: Okay, and do you remember having, like, a best friend growing up or did you just have a lot of friends? PA: I just had a lot of friends. RS: A lot of friends. PA: Yeah. RS: Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? I think I have a feeling I know what one of your hobbies probably was. PA: You’ll have to tell me. RS: Probably reading. PA: Oh, yes! RS: Reading and researching. PA: Yes, I did a lot of reading. Going to the library was really a main event of the week. I was just always upset that we were only allowed four books at a time. RS: Are you serious? That’s amazing. So, you were mainly a reader. Did you, so you didn’t have any other types of hobbies that you liked to do when you were a kid. PA: Not really hobbies. My grandmother Beistle, tried to teach me to crochet and knit. Bless her heart, she tried. But I was left handed and she was right handed so we tried every position. RS: That made it, that made it tough? PA: Yeah. RS: So, did you ever really learn or? PA: Well, I did make a little drawstring purse. I made one for me and one for Eva. And that was the limit of my knitting or crocheting. RS: So, you figured out that, uh, maybe wasn’t you’re thing then. PA: Right, right. RS: That’s funny. So did your, I’m curious, like did your, I don’t know, maybe your grandparents or your grandmothers or your mom, did they teach you how to cook? Was that a very big thing in your family, like learning the recipes and cooking for the family? PA: Yes and no. It takes, you know, both sides. They might have tried to teach me, but I don’t know that I paid it very much attention. But most of the time they did all the cooking, and you know, we set the table and cleared the dishes off and washed the dishes. But as far as really getting in the kitchen and cooking, I didn’t do very much of that. RS: So, you didn’t come away with any fabulous recipes from your grandparents or anything? PA: I do have some of them, yeah. Not that I made them very well, but I do have them. RS: That’s funny! Okay. So, I was going to ask, like if any of your hobbies or interests have changed over time. I know one of them has not, it’s just gotten more in depth. PA: Yeah. RS: Your reading and your research. PA: Well, right. Growing up with grandparents that told stories of their childhood and growing up and of their ancestors really did pique the interest in me. RS: See, I think that’s wonderful. I can see where…I enjoyed the same thing, too, growing up. I remember snapping green beans with my grandpa and having long talks and things like that, and I kind of feel like in today’s world, we are kind of missing that. Well, I think that’s cool. Did you collect anything as a child or as a young person? PA: No. RS: Didn’t really? PA: No. RS: And you didn’t have any other, aside from your bike, no other special toys? Do you remember having any wild bike rides or anything that happened on a bike ride at some time? Did your siblings go with you? Did you ride by yourself? PA: Eh, nothing really wild or. RS: So, Paula, were you not very adventurous when you were a kid? PA: Not on the bike, no. Just rode around the block or whatever on the bike. RS: Right, okay. Alright, well, let’s talk a little bit about your school life. Where did you first attend school? PA: Well, I went to kindergarten in Bristow. I went to first grade at Depew. Second grade at Bristow. Third grade at Kellyville, and back to Bristow until I graduated. RS: Wow. And that’s just because your parents moved around a lot? Was that because of jobs? PA: Yeah, uh-huh. RS: Is the reason they moved. PA: Yes. RS: Okay. And how was that for you as a child? Do you feel like that helped you? Was it hard on you? Did it make it hard to make friends? PA: No. RS: No. PA: No. Not at all. RS: Okay. Do you remember having any particular influential teachers in your school life growing up? PA: Not any in particular. I just really enjoyed all of them. I learned from all of them. One of my favorite classes was geography. RS: That doesn’t surprise me. PA: Yeah. That was always fun. I always did well in English. Carolyn Foster [Nancy Carolyn Foster 12/20/1912 – 7/10/2019], who was the English teacher, senior class, in high school one of her assignments was everybody had to build a family tree. RS: Oh. PA: And, so, she gave us the form and some questions that we were to ask. We were to fill out that form and find out family stories. So, at that time is when I decided, well, I really could get more involved in this. And, so, really, I do attribute genealogy. RS: Mrs. Foster with getting you interested and really sparking. PA: And, really following through. Yes. RS: Right. It created that spark for you to really dig deeper than just a school assignment. PA: Right. RS: Yeah, that’s cool. Do you remember how you got to school? More so, probably, as a youngster, growing up, like before you could drive or whatever. Did your parents take you? Did you take the? PA: Well, when we lived in the country, we rode the bus, and that was always fun. I always liked riding the bus. But, in town, we walked. RS: Oh, you walked to school. Okay. And I guess your siblings…that was back in the day when you could walk to school and. PA: And no problems. RS: Yeah, you felt safe about it. PA: Yeah, yeah. RS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations throughout your school time? PA: Well, in school, there was chorus, you know that kind of thing. Never did play in the band. I was in chorus. RS: Did you enjoy that? PA: Yes. RS: Were you good at it? PA: Mmmmm…yeah. Well, it was a group. I never solo’d, never solo’d. RS: Okay. And was that more so in high school? PA: Yes. Yeah. RS: Okay, okay. But no other, so you were in choir, and that was pretty much? PA: Yeah, pretty much. RS: Okay. I was going to ask if you enjoyed reading. I know that’s funny, because I already know that answer, but go ahead and tell us like what types of books you enjoyed as a young person or growing up. Like what were your favorites? PA: Well, really, fiction, mostly. I read westerns. Biographies. History. There was really nothing I didn’t like. RS: Right, right. Yeah, for me that’s a funny question to ask you because I know the answer to that. Do you remember if you packed a lunch or ate in the cafeteria growing up? PA: Both. RS: Both. Which did you prefer? PA: I don’t know if I, I don’t know. RS: You don’t remember? PA: No. RS: You don’t remember? PA: It’s just according to what was in the cafeteria that day if I took my lunch or not. RS: Right. Okay. I can remember some of the cafeteria food, and I always usually had to eat in the cafeteria, and I was always jealous of the kids that got to bring their lunch, because it seemed like they had better stuff. PA: Yeah. RS: So, I know you enjoyed school and pretty much all aspects of it. Did you have a particular favorite subject? PA: History. RS: History. PA: Yeah. RS: I know that answer, too. Do you remember any of your history teachers, aside from, I know that Mrs. Foster was your English teacher and got you involved in the genealogy, but did you have any history teachers that were influential for you? PA: Not particularly. I just enjoyed the subject itself. And I learned from all of them. RS: That was good enough for you, huh? Okay, well let’s talk a little bit about the house or houses that you grew up in. I know, early on, you kind of moved around a little bit, and you might not have a real huge memory because you were pretty young. But, can you tell me about like your earliest house you remember living in? PA: The earliest house, that I don’t really remember, but it still stands, was a shotgun house. A little tiny house. In fact, that was the house we lived in when I was born. We only lived there a few months because we went to California, so I could take you to that house, but it was little bitty. RS: Wow, okay. PA: California homes, of course, I’ve seen pictures, but there just normal, every-day, regular sized house. RS: So, thinking about whenever you moved back to, say, the Bristow and Depew area, do you have memories of those houses? Like, how were they furnished? Did you have your own room? PA: Never had my own room. RS: Never had your own room. PA: No, Eva and I always shared. In Depew, we had a farmhouse, had a barn and we had pigs and, you know, farm animals. Then, in Kellyville, we had, what I thought, was the best house ever. It was a farmhouse, but it had one of the big, red, huge barns that we would climb up in the top, hay loft, and jump off into the hay. RS: Ohhh, that’s fun! PA: Yes, we had cows and horses, pigs. RS: So, your Kellyville house was probably your favorite because of the barn? PA: Yes, I think so. RS: I’d have to agree with you on that. Barns, barns are fun. PA: Yes. RS: Especially growing up. PA: Yeah. RS: So, then, whenever you moved back from Kellyville to Bristow, which you said was between the fourth and the twelfth grade, did you just live in one house for the rest of that time? PA: No, we lived on 7th Street for a while. And then my mom and dad bought the Pirate Inn Drive-In on Roland. And they bought a mobile home to put beside it. And we lived in that mobile home for a couple of years, I think, there. And then my two uncles, my dad’s brothers had a construction company. Anyway, they built mobile home parks. And they built Evergreen Mobile Home Park west of town, and my dad and mom and my mom’s parents, bought that and we moved our mobile home out there, and we lived there in the mobile home park. RS: Well, that’s news to me, that’s a new one for me. I didn’t know that. That your family built that mobile home park. I guess it’s not in your family now? PA: No, no, they sold it probably in 1980 or around there. RS: Okay, so, before we move off this, can you tell me about the Pirate Drive Inn? I don’t really have any history on that. PA: Okay, that was a hamburger place. RS: Okay. PA: And they also had plate lunches, that kind of thing. RS: Did you ever work there? PA: Yes. I was the official dish washer. When family would come in, they would make sure that I made them an ice cream cone. So, yeah, that was pretty much my job. RS: And, so, did you work there a lot of the time growing up? PA: No, no, because I was only in grade school. RS: Ohhhh, okay. PA: Yeah, I think it was 4th, 5th and 6th grade or something like that. RS: Okay, okay. So, how long did they, so where was the Pirate Drive Inn located? PA: It was on Roland. At that time it was next to the Fogle Car Lot, car dealership. RS: Okay, so orient me now where now where that would be. PA: RCS Electric has that building now. RS: Okay. Oh, is it, was it that actual building? PA: It’s that building. Yes. RS: Oh, how neat. Okay. And did that business, did it stay in business for many years? PA: Yeah, yeah, when my dad sold it, another couple bought it. And I’m not sure how long they had it, and then it went to another couple. They turned it into the Windmill Steakhouse. RS: So, if you probably don’t remember exactly, but do you, roughly, maybe remember around what year it was sold, that your family sold it? Or about how old you were just for reference? PA: I was still in, I was in high school. RS: You were in high school. PA: Yeah. Maybe junior high. RS: Okay, so it’s been a long, a long time. PA: Yeah, it’s been a while. RS: Well, that’s interesting. I didn’t know, I didn’t have any history of the Pirate Drive Inn. Okay, well let’s circle back to your home life. Do you remember as a youngster where you spent most of your time? Like was it in the house? In your room? Outside? Maybe probably in the red barn in Kellyville? PA: We could have been in the barn, yeah. Well, when we were like with family or cousins or, especially in the summer times, we were with grandparents and relatives a lot. But most of them were country folks. We spent a lot of time out in the woods, that kind of thing. Just walking around getting lost. RS: That was always my favorite thing to do when I was a kid. Me and my cousins would go out in the woods, and we would be gone all day long and come back to eat occasionally and. PA: Yes, yes. Yeah, we wouldn’t come back until it was dark. You know, we would build forts and. RS: It’s amazing the creativity I think you can have, or at least we had back then. We would go and undo beaver dams. I don’t know how we never got snake bit, but you know, just fun stuff like that. Or, like you say, we would take sticks and build forts. Were you usually with your cousins or, I mean, you know you said sometimes you didn’t get along with your siblings. PA: Oh, yeah, no we just, it was everybody. RS: Everybody. Well, that sounds like fun. Okay, so, tell me a little bit about what meal times were like in your family. Were you a sit down at the table together every night kind of family? PA: Yes. RS: Did you eat at certain…tell me about that a little bit. PA: Well, we would just eat when daddy would come home. We just had dinner around 5:00, 5:30, 6:00 something like that. But, yes, it was a sit-down family meal every night. RS: Every night. I like that, too. And you already told me that you and Eva had to PA: Wash the dishes. RS: Wash the dishes and clean up. Do you remember having, like, a favorite meal that your mom cooked? PA: She was a good cook, so not really a favorite, but what we really called our special treat was when she would fry chicken. RS: Fried chicken, okay. And then did you have, maybe, a favorite dessert that she fixed? PA: Hmmm. Not that I can think of. RS: So, she was PA: They were, they were all good! RS: It was just all good! PA: They were all good. RS: Well, that’s the kind of mom to have, huh? Okay, well thinking about to your life growing up, what were some of your favorite, like, community activities? For instance, maybe, like Western Heritage Days, day camp, parade, county fair, etc. Can you tell me anything about your life growing up in the Bristow area and the things that you enjoyed to do community-wise? PA: We did go to all the Western Heritage parades. Sometimes, there was a few years when I was younger that we would, actually, dress up in the long dresses and try to look like RS: A pioneer. PA: Yeah, a pioneer. My cousins, some of my cousins were in the different round up clubs, so they would be IN the parade, so we’d get to see them. RS: What was your favorite thing about the Western Heritage Day parade? PA: Oh, probably just all of it. There were so many different round-up clubs from all over and lots of participation. It was just exciting. RS: Yeah, we kind of wished it was like that. I know we’ve got people that have tried to revive it and have done a really good job in the last few years, but there’s just something about the tradition. It seemed, it was more heavy in tradition it seemed like years back, the Western Heritage Day parade. Now did they have the dances and the rodeo and all of that along with the it. PA: Yes, yes, yeah. RS: And you went to all of it? PA: Three nights of rodeo. At least two nights of dances after the rodeo. RS: Did you go to the dance? PA: No. RS: You didn’t go dance? PA: No. We could hear it, but we didn’t go. RS: But you did watch the rodeos? PA: Yes, yeah. RS: Okay. Alright, well, what about anything else like day camp, county fair, did you do any of that? PA: We went to day camp every year and that was always a highlight. You’d get to go swimming every day. And all the activities in the Quonset huts out at the park, they were all, you know, it was just everybody…you know you could always see all your friends in the summer time, as well as, during school. RS: Right. I know, because back then it seemed like whenever you said, often times, good-bye to your friends the last day of school, for a lot of them, it’s not like it is today as much, that might be the last time you see them for a while unless you had these type of activities where you got to hang out together. PA: Right. RS: And it’s cool to know that after quite a few years of there not being any day camp that it’s being, it’s coming back this year! So, that’s a good thing. Did you ever get to the point where you became a camp counselor at day camp or did you just attend? PA: No, just attended. RS: Just attended. PA: Yeah. RS: Well, did you have anything to do with the county fairs that they had around here? PA: No, my Grandmother McGuire, Lydia, she would sometimes put her canned goods in, in it. I don’t remember if she ever won any ribbons or anything, but family members participated, you know, entered different things in the fair. And, of course, the carnival. The fair was always fun. The carnival was fun. It was always so crowded. RS: And where was that, where was that held at? PA: It was out at the Quonset huts, there, at the time it was a ball field out front. And that’s where the carnival was. But each, each RS: So, is it where the softball field is now? PA: Yes. RS: Okay, okay. So they would just have it out on the field area? PA: Yes, and at that time, the rodeo grounds was right next to it where the tennis courts are now. RS: Really? PA: Yep, that’s where the rodeo grounds were. RS: Okay, see I didn’t know that. That was before my time. So, what types of, like how long did the county fair last? Was it just like a weekend or? PA: I want to say a week. RS: A week? Okay. So, do you have a favorite memory of what you did there? What was the best? Was it getting to go to the carnival or? PA: Yeah, all of it. RS: All of it. PA: Yeah, just all of it. We always went through the barns first. They might have, the first barn might have like things people have made, as far as, clothing and that kind of thing. The next barn might be canned goods and that type of thing. Another barn might be full of chickens in cages. You know the different kind of chickens. And then, of course, on down it was sheep and cows and calves. RS: So, whenever you went to something like that, was it as a family or did you go with your friends? PA: As a family, and then maybe with friends later. RS: Okay, and so, were you given like a certain amount of money that you could spend at the carnival on rides and snacks or how did that work? PA: I think so. I’m sure we were given some money. I don’t really remember for sure. RS: Okay, alright. And can you think of any other community activities in Bristow that you participated in throughout your young life? PA: We always had season tickets for the swimming pool. RS: Okay. PA: I think we lived out there. Mom would drop us off like when they opened at 1:00, I think. And she would say I’m coming to get you at 5:00, so get out of the pool at 4:30 so you be sure and be dried off before you get in the car. RS: Do you know how long the swimming pool has been there? PA: It’s been, oh my gosh, I’m not sure, it’s been there many, many years though. RS: I mean, I know I grew up out there. And I’m so excited that it’s been revamped and going to be opening back up even better this year, hopefully. I think it’s raised a lot of kids through Bristow. PA: Yes, yes. RS: And it’s been missed, you know, really missed over the last several years. PA: Well, that’s where I learned to swim, you know, you had lessons. RS: Right, right. PA: Plenty of sunburns. RS: Oh, yeah, I can only imagine, because when you’re young and your mom tells you to put sunscreen on multiple times…she puts it on you once and then that’s the last time you ever think about it. PA: Yes. RS: And then you’re sunburnt by the time you get home. PA: Right. RS: Okay. Well, let’s talk about, what were some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town growing up. Do you remember? PA: Probably, for me, was Ben Franklin. RS: And tell me what Ben Franklin is. PA: That was like a little five and dime store. We were given an allowance, and we could, mom usually went once every week or once every two weeks or something, and we could spend our allowance there. And it was usually a quarter. We’d get a quarter allowance. I would not spend my quarters for a few weeks, and so I could buy something bigger and better than my brother and sister. RS: That doesn’t surprise me. PA: Yeah. And they were - Paula got this. And I didn’t, well, they spent their quarters, so they couldn’t. RS: Do you have a particular memory of something that you saved up and bought that just made your day? PA: Probably 45s, records. RS: Oh! That’s awesome! So, did you have a particular artist that you liked to listen to? PA: No, not particular. RS: So, what was some of the music you listened to back then? Do you remember? PA: Hmmm. RS: Like, who were some of…like if you bought a 45, who would it have been of? Do you remember? PA: No. I really, no! RS: See, I’m going to make you dig deep for this. PA: I know! No, not particular. Whatever song was popular at the time. RS: At the time. I, actually, grew up listening to 45s and 33s, too, and that was like, my dad had a collection, and I loved it. I had a little record player at home. It was the coolest thing. PA: Yes. RS: Okay, so, you’re biggest and best memory is the Ben Franklin. What about any other businesses that were, I guess, notable back at that time in Bristow, whether it be a restaurant or maybe a clothing store or something like that? Do you have any? PA: I know going with my grandparents, we went to Shamas a lot with them, Shamas Dry Goods. RS: Shamas Dry Goods. Okay. And, so, what was there? PA: Clothes. RS: Okay. PA: My grandpa worn nothing but overalls, and that’s where he bought his stuff. Which you could, you know, look at cowboy boots and hats and western wear. RS: And where was that located? PA: It was the block of Community Bank. RS: Like the whole block or? PA: Part of it. RS: Part of the block. PA: Part of it, yeah. RS: Okay. And then where was the Ben Franklin…and the Ben Franklin was the one that burnt…was that the one that burned down? PA: Yes, it burned. So, it’s next to Los Arcos. RS: Los Arcos. Okay, well I know whenever I’ve done some of the older oral histories, the Shamas name has come up a lot. And, so, had that building or business been there for a long time whenever you would go and visit? PA: Yes, yes. RS: And was it still, I guess, in the Shamas family? PA: Right. It was. RS: That’s cool. Okay. Did you have a favorite place to eat in town? I guess maybe your PA: The Pirate Inn! RS: Your Pirate Inn was probably one of them, wasn’t it? Was there any other places that were special? I know back when I was growing up, we didn’t get to eat out that often, so, I mean it was a special treat whenever we did. PA: We went to Tastee Freeze, Frosty Freeze. RS: And where was that located? PA: Tastee Freeze was on 4th Street next to the Chinese place now. RS: Okay, so where was…that was at the same place as it was when. The Frosty Freeze was something different? PA: Yeah, it was on south main next to the railroad tracks. RS: Okay, and so, did you go there for a hamburger or ice cream or all of the above? PA: Yeah. RS: What was your favorite thing to get? Do you remember? PA: Probably, well, it was, it was like a cherry vanilla coke. RS: Oh, that sounds good! Did you have, once you became a teenager, where was, you know growing up for us dragging was the cool and fun thing. What did you PA: That was it. RS: So, you drug main, too? PA: Right! RS: Was it the same turn-around, like at Stop-n-Shop and then down by Pizza Hut or was the drag different? PA: No, it was down to Frosty Freeze, down to the tracks. RS: Down to the tracks at the PA: Yeah, or Community Bank. RS: Okay. Oh. PA: Right there. That was the turn-around. RS: Oh! Okay, oh, because I guess the other, was the other part, what is now Coop’s, what was Stop-n-Shop at the, was that even there, was anything there at that time? PA: I don’t remember what it was if it RS: Because we would always turn around in Stop-n-Shop. That’s funny. And, so, did you ever, was there, like a particular place that teenagers hung out back in that time, aside, like once you finally parked or did anything, what would you do? PA: No. If we parked, it was like maybe the Safeway parking lot, which is not Dollar General. RS: Okay. PA: No, that’s all I can think of. RS: And, was there any other, at the time you grew up, were there any, I mean, I know back in the day there was like a movie theater. Was there anything like that at that time? PA: Yes, oh yeah, the drive-in. Drive-in movies. Yes. RS: And where was that located? PA: That was west of town, about a mile, maybe. RS: Really? PA: Uh-huh. I don’t know what the business is called that’s there now. It’s a…hmm…I don’t know what kind of business it is. RS: Like out past Walmart? PA: No. Out west on 66. RS: Oh! Oh, okay. I’m going the wrong direction. PA: Past Evergreen Mobile Home Park, and then there’s Timber Trail housing. RS: Yes, uh-huh. So, the drive-in was out there? PA: Yeah, just past that. RS: Okay. Cool. So, where did you buy your clothes or did your grandmother make your clothes growing up? PA: Well, yeah, and mom made our clothes, too, when we were smaller. We bought at JC Penney’s here in town. RS: We had a JC Penney’s? PA: We did! RS: Well, my goodness. PA: Yeah. RS: I didn’t know that. PA: Yeah, we bought MOST of our clothes at JC Penney’s. RS: Okay. And then, so, how did you, did you like that your, that your mom and your grandma made your clothes or did that, was that a normal thing? PA: Yes. It was normal. Yeah, yeah. But they were absolutely wonderful seamstress. RS: Top notch. PA: Yes. RS: Well, that’s cool. Okay, and then did you, was there certain times of year you got new clothes or is it just when you needed them? PA: Well, we always got more clothes at the beginning of school, and we would go shopping and buy whatever we needed to start school, and that was always kind of a special occasion. RS: Oh yeah, that’s always the fun trip. PA: Yeah. You get to pick out new things. RS: Right. PA: Get new shoes. RS: Right. Okay, well, let’s talk about how your family got around. Do you remember, what is your memory of the first car, what car do you have the first memory of? Do you remember? PA: Oh, I couldn’t tell you what it was. I couldn’t tell what color it was. I want to say it was like a baby blue. RS: A baby blue something. PA: A something. RS: Okay, well, what is one you do remember? PA: I need my dad here to tell you that. RS: What is one you do remember? PA: Oh. RS: Are you not good at models of cars? PA: No! I’m not! A Buick. I know we had a Buick. I learned to drive in a Buick. RS: And, so, was it a standard or automatic? PA: Automatic. RS: An automatic. And who taught you how to drive? PA: Driver’s Ed teacher. RS: So, your parents didn’t have the heart to teach you? PA: Well, no, no, no. The first time I got in the car with my mom, she put one hand on the dash board, the other hand on the door, like to brace herself. And she said, okay, start it up. RS: So, it wasn’t even running and she was already braced?! PA: NO! And she was already braced! RS: Oh, that’s funny! So, who is the main person that took you places? Was it your mom or your dad or your grandparents? PA: Parents, my parents. RS: Parents. Okay. Did you go on vacations in your car? PA: We did. Most of the time it was back and forth to California to visit family. But there were stops along the way in the Grand Canyon and different places. RS: Are there any of those types of memories that really stick out to you, like any place that you stopped? I can imagine the Grand Canyon would had to have been one of them. PA: Yeah, that was a great memory. Most of my memory was car sickness. RS: Bless your heart! PA: I had a lot of that. But staying, what is now Route 66, I remember the motels, the little tourist camps, that kind of thing. Which, of course, you don’t think of it back then as being anything, but now looking back on it, I think, wow, we really experienced the Route 66 experience. RS: So, you don’t feel as a young person that you probably really grasped what you were getting to see and experience. It took until you got older. PA: Right. RS: To appreciate that. PA: Yes, yes. Seeing San Francisco [California], I remember that. That was fun. RS: Yeah, I can imagine, especially coming from a small country town, because even town here is not like town there. PA: Right, right. Going through the desert and that kind of thing. It’s all different. RS: Right, and then I guess you probably had to fight through, you probably have the worst memory of just your car sickness and trying to get there and back. PA: Yeah. RS: Oh, that would be terrible. And you said that driver’s ed taught you how to drive. Do you remember what your first car was? PA: 1966 red Mustang. RS: Ohhh! Look at you! Did you buy it or did your parents buy it for you? PA: I told my dad, or I told my mom and dad that I would love to have a red Mustang, and my dad worked out of town at that time, and he found the car at a car lot at McAlester [Oklahoma], a red Mustang. He put on new tires, and when my mom picked me up, at the time I worked at the hospital here after school, she came to pick me up and there was this red Mustang parked in the drive way. RS: Oh, my goodness. PA: I said, and at the time, we were still at the mobile home park, you know, they were managers. So, it wasn’t unusual to have different vehicles in our drive. And when we pulled in, I said, mom, that is exactly like the car I want. RS: Oh! What a good memory! PA: Yes! So, I walked in and daddy jingled the keys. RS: Oh my gosh! PA: Jingled my keys, and I said, what?! You know, so anyway. RS: Were you sixteen when you got it? PA: Yeah. RS: Oh man! PA: So, that was a surprise, which I did wind up paying for it, but he found it and brought it home. RS: Well, that’s a neat memory. So, Paula was cool back in the day. PA: Oh yeah! And it had get up and go, too! RS: Oh, I love it. Okay, well what kind of entertainment did you guys enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV? If you did, what were, do you remember some of your favorite programs? PA: We did watch some TV. It really wasn’t like a big deal at our house. But on Sunday evenings, I believe, Walt Disney was on, so we would get ready for school, you know, take our baths and put our pajamas on and that kind of thing, and then we would get to watch Walt Disney. Once it was over, then it was bedtime. RS: So, what was did Walt Disney consist of? Was that PA: It was just different, different shows. RS: Oh, okay. PA: Different cartoons. It was just like a Walt Disney hour. RS: Okay. PA: Variety type thing. RS: Were there any pivotal moments in history that you witnessed watching the TV? Like that were on TV? PA: Yes. I remember very distinctly was when we first landed on the moon. We got to stay up late to watch it. Mom thought, you know, that was really important that we got to. It was all I could do to keep my eyes open, but you know it was a little bit later than we were used to. RS: So, around how old do you think you were? PA: I was nine. RS: You were nine. So, did that, being nine, did that, could you grasp how, like, amazing that was for that time period to be that there’s actually a man walking on the moon? PA: I thought it was pretty fascinating. Of course, the picture on the TV was fuzzy, you know, it wasn’t good sound and all that, but you could still see well enough. So, I knew it was something different and unusual. And mom told us to remember that moment. RS: That it was that big of a deal. PA: Yes, yes. RS: Do you have any other pivotal moments that you remember that you saw on TV? PA: Well, of course, there’s all kinds of different things, but nothing really, really THAT RS: The moon, the landing on the moon. PA: Yeah, that was probably number one. RS: Stood out to you the most. What was your medical like growing up? Did you have a family doctor? PA: Yes. RS: And who was your doctor? PA: Dr. Jones. RS: And was he a Bristow doctor? PA: Yeah. RS: Okay. Did your mother have any, like, mother or grandmothers have any home remedies or anything that you remember that you used like instead of going to the doctor for every little thing? Was there any PA: No. My grandmother worked for a doctor, so we just went to the doctor. RS: You just went to the doctor, huh? So, Dr. Jones, what was his first name? PA: W.E. was his initials. RS: And he was a Bristow doctor? PA: Yes. RS: And that would have been out at the hospital? Where were doctor’s offices? PA: He was actually on 4th Street where the health department is now. RS: Oh, okay. PA: That was his office then. RS: Okay, okay. Do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics growing up that either that you or your family experienced? PA: Well, I had the measles five times. RS: Five times?! PA: Five times. RS: Did they not have the vaccine then? PA: No, not then. RS: Oh, my goodness. And how did that affect you? PA: It was awful! RS: You were just miserable?! PA: Yeah. And chicken pox. RS: You had it all. PA: Yeah. RS: So, whenever one of you got it, did all of you get it? PA: Yeah. Yeah, we kind of took turns. We had the mumps. Had mumps over Christmas. That was an awful Christmas because you didn’t get to do anything at Christmas. I missed the school Christmas party. It was when I was in second grade, I think. RS: Ohhhh. PA: Missed the family get-togethers. RS: So, you had all of the things that we are vaccinated for now. PA: Yes, right! RS: Oh, my goodness. What about any other types of epidemics. I mean, I know, obviously, we’ve experienced in the last few years, covid and what kind of havoc that wreaked on everything, but was there anything like that, that you can remember growing up, that you experienced? PA: No, no. And not any family members either. RS: And how did covid affect, did it affect you and your family at all? PA: Yeah, we all had it at one point. RS: But all recovered? PA: All recovered very well, yes. RS: Okay, and it didn’t affect jobs or? PA: No. RS: Well, we’re glad that’s over, aren’t we? PA: Yes, yes, for sure. RS: Did you attend a church growing up? PA: Off and on with friends. RS: And did you PA: And family. I went to church with family, too. RS: Okay. Did you have, I guess, a favorite church? Did you go to different churches since you were going with different people? PA: Yeah, with friends, I went with friends to Trinity Baptist at grade school, mostly. RS: Now, who was the pastor there at that time? Do you remember? Was it, it wasn’t the elder Tidwell, was it? PA: No, that was before him. RS: That was before him. PA: I can’t remember his name, actually. RS: Okay. Well, that’s okay. That’s okay. So, you went to Trinity with your friends. PA: Yes, and the holiness church with family. RS: Was Trinity still in the same place that it is now? PA: Yes. RS: Okay. And, so did you go to, what holiness church? PA: Here at Bristow where it is now on first. RS: Oh, okay. So, those buildings, it’s been the same thing for quite a while then. So, do you have any memories of, like, how the service was or did you have any favorite songs or hymns that you sang or is there any details about church you remember growing up? PA: I know going with friends to Trinity, they had a group for the kids or the girls called GA’s, Girls in Action. And that was always fun. RS: And what types of things did you do? PA: Well, they just taught different things, and I know one time, we took a trip to Cushing and saw a film with the other GA’s from other churches. It was just a lot of fun, a lot of activity. RS: Well, that sounds like a neat PA: Yeah, a real, real family type thing. RS: Right. And, so, did, so this group taught different lessons to that age group. Did you guys do any activities together, like community activities, this group? PA: I don’t remember community activities, but of course, that church went to Falls Creek for the week. Went to Falls Creek. RS: So, you went to Falls Creek. And what was your favorite memory about going to Falls Creek or a memory that stands out to you? PA: Well, just how many other kids were there, and you know, just the atmosphere, the camping. The huge building with everybody in it…it was just a lot of fun, but you learned a lot. RS: So, you told me at one time that you were a very shy child. It sounds like you were very involved and did a lot of things for being somebody that was shy. PA: Yes. RS: So, that didn’t bother you or you didn’t feel homesick being away like that? PA: No, no. I think because I was with friends, you know, that were more or less family. As long as you stayed in your little group. RS: Your little group, so it eased your…because I know you said you were incredibly quiet as a younger, I’m guessing you kind of came out of that some as you grew up, but as a smaller child, you were very, very quiet? PA: Yes. RS: And do you have any reason for that, you think? Or just the way God made you? PA: Just the way I was. RS: Okay. So, let’s talk about how your family celebrated holidays. Can you give me a for instance of how you celebrated Christmas in your home in regards to gifts or food, decorations? So, tell me about a family Christmas at your house. PA: Well, Santa Claus came. RS: I like it. PA: So, we had to go to bed and go to sleep, which was, you know, SO difficult. And we’d try to wake up and I would get up during the night and peek and see if he’d come yet. RS: So, did Santa bring you, did he fill your stockings, did he bring you certain…what did Santa typically bring at your house? PA: He brought, more or less, the big stuff. RS: And was it wrapped or? PA: It was unwrapped. RS: Unwrapped. That’s how it was at my house. PA: We had wrapped gifts from parents or each other and Santa brought the unwrapped. RS: That’s how he was at mine. Did he fill your stockings, too? PA: Yes. Yeah. RS: So, did you guys go all out on decorations? Do you remember what it was like, how was your Christmas tree? PA: We had a lot of decorations, yeah. We had the tree and tinsel and all that. But we had different decorations sitting on the TV and the tables. RS: So, did you usually have a live tree or? PA: Live. RS: A live tree. See, we did tinsel, too. As I got older, I realize now why my mom didn’t like tinsel because it’s so messy. But we, of course, loved it. So, was your family the type of family that really got into and enjoyed holidays, say like the 4th or July, Easter, Halloween…were there any other holidays that really stood out to you? I think for most people, I think Christmas is always on the forefront of holidays, but were there any other particular holidays that really stood out to you? PA: Well, Thanksgiving was always good, too. RS: Thanksgiving. Was that, did you go to a particular house? Was it at your house? PA: Grandparents. RS: Grandparents. Did you trade off going or did you hit both of them or? PA: I think we usually hit both. RS: And I’m sure since everyone was a good cook, you probably had a wonderful feast, didn’t you? PA: Oh, yes. Yeah, two or three. RS: Lots of eating. Were there any, what about 4th of July? Do you remember, did you do anything with your family? Back then was there town activities for the 4th? PA: No. I don’t think there was town activities. But we always had our own fireworks, and sometimes we would be with other families, you know, together. RS: Right. PA: But everybody had their own, so we would shoot them off. RS: So, it wasn’t like it is today where we have the big fireworks out at the lake. PA: No. RS: They didn’t have anything like that back then. Did the town of Bristow do anything for any of the other holidays? Do you remember trick-or-treating around Bristow? Was that a big thing? PA: Yes, we trick-or-treated everywhere. It was every street, every house, you could go to, where now it’s more. RS: Sixth Street. PA: Yeah, Sixth Street and that’s about it. We went everywhere. RS: And, so, that was Halloween was kind of a big deal. PA: It was a big deal. RS: A big deal back then. Do you remember a favorite costume? PA: No. RS: I think my mom always cut holes out of sheet and made us a ghost. PA: Yes. RS: To make it easier. PA: That’s kind of what we did. And some years we didn’t really have a costume. We just bought a mask. RS: Oh, okay. PA: We had a mask and that was all. RS: Those plastic masks that make you sweat and yeah, that you can’t see out of. Okay, well, as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? PA: Mmmm. No, well, no. There was just a gamut of things. Sometimes I would do, I would think, I want to be a teacher. Or I’m going to be a nurse. Then I’d realize, oh no, they have to give shots. I don’t want to be a nurse. No, nothing that I actually followed through with. RS: Well, it doesn’t have to be something you followed through with. Like I wanted to be, I thought I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was a kid, but then I realized that I would have to see hurt animals, so it broke my heart too much, so. So, teacher maybe, or a nurse? PA: Yeah, mm-hmm. RS: Which you worked in a doctor’s office for a long time. Which, we’ll get to that. What was your first job? Well, I guess you were a dishwasher. PA: A dishwasher, yeah, no but I babysat. RS: Babysat. PA: Yeah, I babysat summers and evenings for neighbors. I did that for many years. RS: And then you. PA: And my first official job, you know, real paying job was I worked at the hospital in the office. RS: And that’s when you were in high school, wasn’t it? PA: Yeah, junior and senior year. RS: Okay. And, so, tell me what a typical work day was there for you. PA: At the hospital? RS: Mm-hmm. PA: Well, what I did, I worked in the office. I admitted patients, just did the paperwork, get them to sign the forms and that kind of thing. Answered the phones, switchboard. RS: Were you like seventeen probably? PA: Sixteen, seventeen. RS: Sixteen, seventeen? That’s a pretty big job for a younger, a younger aged person. That’s impressive. PA: It was the old-time switchboard. RS: Was that hard to catch on to? PA: Not really. I just wished they still had it. It was fun. RS: So, that wasn’t one of the artifacts that came. That wasn’t preserved from the hospital? PA: Huh-uh. RS: Shoot. Do you remember how much money you made at your first job? PA: No. I don’t. RS: You don’t remember what you got…I was gonna ask you, too, and I forgot, on your red Mustang, do you remember how much your dad paid for it? Or how much ended up paying for it? PA: I think it was $975. RS: Oh, my goodness! Wouldn’t like somebody like to have a $975 1966 Mustang now?! PA: I think my payments were $75 a month. RS: Oh, my goodness! PA: So, it was less than a year it was paid for. RS: Okay, I had to rewind on that because I forgot to ask you. How long did you stay at your first job at the hospital? PA: About two years. RS: Two years. So that was through your high school life? PA: Yeah, I was there junior and senior year, and then I graduated in ’77. In July of ’77 I went to work at American National Bank as a teller. RS: Okay, so, and I guess, so I guess the hospital was good at working with, like around your school hours. PA: Yes. RS: You just went after school and on the weekends. PA: And weekends. RS: Okay. Since you were so young when you worked at the hospital, do you remember any lessons that stuck out to you from working there? PA: Don’t drink and drive. RS: Oh, my goodness. Because you were seeing things coming in. PA: Yeah, there were accidents. People, of course, I wasn’t back in the back where to see the person, the patient. But the reactions of the family members, people coming in. RS: That really stood out to you? PA: Yeah. RS: Oh, I bet. So, did you have any other lessons just in your, I guess, how you would conduct yourself in your work life? Did you have any mentors there that helped teach you, maybe you carried over into your other jobs as you moved on? PA: Yeah, one thing that carried on to all my jobs was what you see or do or know in the office doesn’t leave the office. You know, you keep it to yourself. You don’t talk about things. RS: What happens there stays there. PA: Privacy. RS: Yes. That’s good. So, tell me about some of the other jobs you held throughout your life. I know you mentioned you went from the hospital to the bank. And then. PA: I was there 12 years. RS: Twelve years at the bank. PA: I started out as a teller. RS: Okay. PA: Drive-in teller, then inside teller, and then I wound up in the loan department toward the end. RS: And then from there you went to? PA: From there I went, well, I took a year off. I didn’t work at all. From there I went to. RS: Why did you take off that year? PA: Just to be with the boys. RS: So, that’s when your boys were little? PA: Yes. RS: Okay. Alright. So, from there you went to. PA: To Rainbow Healthcare Center. RS: Okay. PA: In the office there, bookkeeper. RS: And you were there how long? PA: I was there nine years. RS: Nine years. And, so, did you have any good lessons that you learned from the residents that you were around there? PA: Yes, well, me and my love of history and genealogy, you know, and they’re all old people. RS: Right. PA: And they all told stories. I just loved it. You know, there were like a whole house full of grandparents. RS: Right. And I’m sure they loved you, too. So, from there, after Rainbow, did you retire? PA: No, from there RS: Oh no, you went to the doc PA: Doctor’s office. RS: That’s right. PA: Went to work for Dr. Krug. RS: Krug. PA: David Krug. RS: And then Smith [Carl Smith] and Sarah [Sarah Pinson]. PA: Yes. RS: Carl Smith and Sarah. And you were there how many years? PA: Nineteen. RS: Nineteen years. And, so, from there, that’s when you retired? PA: Yes. RS: And then I also wanted to ask you about when you came on with the Bristow Historical Society and how that has affected your life. PA: Well, I was always, as far as I can remember, I was always a member from back in the 80’s. RS: Okay. PA: But then after retirement, I started volunteering. RS: When did you start, do you remember what year you started volunteering there? PA: Probably 2019, 2020? Something like that. RS: Okay. PA: It’s only been four or five years. So far. RS: That’s just probably furthered your love of history. PA: Yes. RS: And I’m just gonna say that we couldn’t make it there without you, that you are the history wizard. Your knowledge is so vast and appreciated with how you keep up the Facebook page and keep interesting posts and all the research you do is just crazy how many hours you put into it. And I know it’s because, partially because you love it. Is there anything, are you happy to be where you’re at in your life now of, you know, retirement, volunteering…is that a good, you feel like that’s a good place? PA: Yeah, I just kinda slid right into it. RS: It worked out, didn’t it? PA: Yeah, yeah from genealogy into the research, you know, Bristow research, it’s just, it’s really been fascinating. RS: And you and I have a project we have to get on taking pictures. You have the old pictures of the different views, aspects, buildings around town, and we’re gonna try and go and capture what it looks like today and have some comparisons, which I’m excited to work on. That I think will be a great thing to have in the history. PA: Yes, right. This year is Bristow’s 125th birthday. RS: Which is a big deal! PA: It is a big deal. RS: Yeah. Okay. Did you attend college? And if you did, did you enjoy that experience? PA: I did. It’s while I worked at American National Bank. They paid for any college we wanted to pursue. RS: Oh wow! PA: And I did take 15 hours at Tulsa Junior College [Tulsa Community College], of course, that was evenings. RS: And what did you take? PA: History. RS: Why does that not surprise me? PA: I know. History and sociology, just things that interested me. RS: Right. PA: It wasn’t for any certain degree or anything, it was just what was interesting. But Tracy Kelly said anything to broaden your horizons. They were all for. RS: Yeah, which is awesome. PA: Yeah, I appreciated it very much. RS: Yeah, for real. Okay. Well, let’s circle back to your family, and let’s talk about your spouse. What is his name and when did you meet? PA: His name is Gary Wayne Atwell [3/8/1958]. He moved to Bristow when he was a junior and I was a sophomore. Through a friend, he was bashful kind of like I was, and so he asked a mutual friend if I would go out with him. And, so, the mutual friend asked me and I said, okay. So, we went and the rest is history. RS: So, what was your first impression of him? PA: He was just as bashful as I was. RS: So, I would have to know PA: Our first date, maybe two words between us. RS: That’s what I was gonna say, I would have to know what your first date sounded like. There probably wasn’t a ton of conversation. PA: No, there was not a ton of conversation and it was dragging main. RS: Dragging main. PA: Yeah, up and down main street. RS: Well, you know, that’s, you at least probably had the radio on and that helped lighten the mood a little bit. Can you tell me about your engagement and how long it lasted? PA: We got engaged New Year’s Eve 1980. RS: 1980. PA: Wait a minute, ’79. RS: ’79. PA: Yeah. RS: And then how long was your engagement? PA: We got married April 7th , so four months. RS: You were fast, too. So, you were married April 7, 1980? PA: Yeah. RS: Okay. PA: No, no. Seventy-eight. I’m all mixed up here. RS: That’s okay. I can’t remember how old I am half the time. So, engaged in ’78 and married in ’79? PA: No. RS: No. PA: We were married in ’78. RS: Married in ’78. Okay, so April 7, 1978 was when you were married. PA: Uh-huh. RS: So, you would have been engaged in ’77. PA: Yeah, let’s see. RS: Are we gonna have to edit this? PA: Yeah, we are. RS: That’s okay. Dates are hard to remember. PA: We were married April of ’77. So, December 31st. RS: Would have been ’76. PA: Good grief, I am real, you are definitely gonna have to edit this. RS: Well, as long as we know what your, when you were married. We can figure out the rest. PA: April of ’78. RS: April of ’78 is when you were married. April 7, 1978. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your wedding, what it was like? Like when and where? PA: We got married in at the Assembly of God Church that is no longer standing. It was on Chestnut Street. We were married by Gene, I mean, sorry, Joe Jackson. RS: Joe Jackson. Was it a big wedding? A small wedding? PA: Well, it was just family. Family and friends, so I would call it a big wedding. Just your normal every day church wedding. RS: Right, okay. What would you recall about your first years of marriage? Like what were they like when you were newly married? PA: Nothing really stands out, sticks out. We both worked. RS: So, was it, were you, was it a struggle. Did you live in a little house? PA: No, we actually lived in a mobile home there like two houses down from my parents for the first year. RS: In the mobile home park? PA: Yes, and then we moved to Depew [Oklahoma] and lived in a house there. And we were there 13 years in the same house. RS: So, that would have been where you brought your boys home to? PA: Yes, they were both born while we lived at Depew [Oklahoma]. I can’t say we struggled, but it was paycheck to paycheck. RS: Right. PA: You know, as you’re newly married and all that. RS: Right, so, speaking of your children, tell me their names and their dates of birth. PA: Okay. My first son was Clinton Wayne Atwell. He was born October 19, 1981. My other son, Curtis Paul Atwell, and he was born May 4, 1984. RS: So, he’s getting ready to have a birthday, isn’t he? PA: Yes. RS: Did you work or were you a stay-at-home mom? PA: I worked the whole time. RS: You took off PA: Just the one year. RS: The one year you took off with them. What do you feel were the challenges of being a mom during that time period and trying to work and do all the things? PA: Well, Gary worked at Kwikset, and he worked second shift, so the boys or I didn’t really get to see him until the weekend. You know, because he worked evenings, and of course, we were gone to school and work during the day, so we crossed paths. So, that would be probably the most challenging. RS: You kind of felt like a single mom, I guess? PA: Yeah, because that’s really what it was. RS: Right. PA: Yeah. But, of course, he was a very attentive father when he was there. And as far at the boys growing up, they were in cub scouts. I was a cub mother, or den mother. RS: Den mother. PA: They played baseball. And that was always a challenge because one practiced on Mondays and Wednesdays and played Tuesdays and Thursdays, well the other one was the opposite. You know, I was here and there and all around. RS: Were grandparents able to help at all with the shuffle? PA: Not really, because that was Depew and we were Bristow. RS: It was all you. PA: It was just me, yeah, mostly. RS: My goodness. So, were your boys good? Were they ornery? PA: No, they were good boys! RS: Well, good. It was probably a good thing because it sounds like you had your hands full. Then do you have any grandchildren, and if so, names and ages? PA: I have one granddaughter. She’s Savanna Grace [10/24/2019]. RS: I love that name, Savanna Grace. And how old is she? PA: She’s four and a half. RS: Four and a half. So, that’s a fun age. So, what are your favorite things to do with Miss Savanna? PA: EVERYTHING. RS: She’s not spoiled at all, is she? PA: No, not at all. No, she’s your typical little farm girl. They have cows and horses and chickens, and she loves to gather her eggs. RS: Oh, that sounds like fun. PA: Yeah, yeah. She goes to daycare at a daycare in Okmulgee. She’s learned the Creek language. RS: That’s awesome! PA: Yeah, so when she, she’s talking gobbledy-goo to me, I’m thinking, I don’t know what you’re saying, but keep right on saying it! RS: You keep on with that! So, what’s her favorite thing to do when she comes to your house? PA: Swing. RS: Swing. PA: Yeah, yeah, of course, she loves to read. She loves to work puzzles, all the normal every day. She likes to build blanket forts. RS: That’s the best. Well, that sounds like fun. Okay, so we’ve talked some about your love of history, and I know you said that Mrs. Foster was the one that kind of sparked that with your genealogy assignment. I know you had also told me that you were part of the Bristow group and the Bristow group that did genealogy and then you ended up teaching there. Can you tell me a little bit about that? PA: That started, like, in the 80’s, early 80’s. Which I was a member back then. RS: How did you have time for everything? PA: I really didn’t have time, but you know, you make time for some things. RS: Right. PA: And I didn’t do it all the time. I didn’t do research all the time. I just when I could. RS: Right. PA: But then it might be months that I didn’t do it at all. But, you just keep going on. RS: So, you got into that, and then, so what did you just kind of fall into teaching there? PA: Yes, yeah. RS: It just kind of turned into that? PA: It just evolved that way. RS: And you did that for? PA: Oh, many years. RS: And just recently that dissolved. PA: Yes, we just dissolved it in January . RS: In January. And then we’ve already talked about you started volunteering at the depot probably in the last 4ish years, 4-5 years. Do you have any wisdom to share about seeking out a person’s family history and the importance of it? PA: Well, you don’t know until you look for anything. You think, oh, well my folks were just all farmers, you know, pretty boring, pretty standard. But it’s not. It’s not that way at all. Just, you know, if you find out the details, you find out about the person, their personality, things they liked to do, things that you like to do that you didn’t know, and YOU like to do. RS: Like the connection, you find the connection there. So, is there one, and there may be more than one, but are there any particular things that were, maybe, outlandish or that wow’d you that you’ve, that you’ve learned about your own family. PA: Yes. Well, one of them was the Salem witch hunts that everybody’s heard about. My, I want to say, maybe seven- or eight-times grandmother, actually her sister, was one of the accusers, and so that made her dad one of the, I don’t know what he was called, a judge or one of the persecutors. So, very much involved in the witch things. My grandmother was not. She was too young at that time, before it all blew over. But that was one eye-opener thing. Another thing is, I’ve got a couple of connections to Abraham Lincoln. RS: Oh, neat. PA: And that’s, that was just fun. Not direct, but like an uncle. My family used to live in the, neighbors to the Lincoln family. They owned land side by side. And then my uncle helped the Lincoln family move from Kentucky to Indiana, I believe. And I have proof of that. You know, so it’s proven, not just hearsay or whatever. Also, a different grandfather, a different line, when the Lincoln family was in Illinois, he knew Abraham Lincoln, and they show a picture of him standing on the front porch, I guess, of the Lincoln Law Office. So, you know, just different connections, you know, so you play a part of history, and you don’t realize it. And, of course, there’s always your civil war grandparents or aunts or uncles or whoever that was involved in the different wars. I’ve got several Revolutionary War soldiers. RS: So, do you feel like you’re leaving a good legacy for your family with the collection of the history items that you have? PA: Yes. RS: Are your boys interested in that? PA: I think they are. I think as, I think with everybody, as you get older, you do become more interested. RS: I would agree. PA: And wished you’d asked more questions of your grandparents and that kind of thing. RS: Yes, absolutely. Well, I definitely, just with my experience with doing the oral histories and working with the historical society, it’s really sparked my interest and made me wish I would have done some of the same things, you know, before my dad passed away or before my mom had her stroke, and you know, was unable to talk now. So, I think it’s a really neat thing to leave to your family. You’ve done all the leg work, you know. And it’s just all right there for them to be able to read about. Okay, so, I spoke with your siblings to see if they had any interesting things to add about you, and Michael told me to ask you about the red shoes. Can you tell me about the red shoes? I was a little nervous to ask you. PA: Growing up, mom always had us in red tennis shoes. RS: Was there a reason for that? PA: I don’t think so. RS: Or did she just like red? PA: Just liked red tennis shoes, and Michael thinks that such a fascinating thing that every picture we have red shoes on. RS: You have red tennis shoes on. PA: Yeah, yeah. There’s those red shoes again! RS: And the Eva wanted me to ask you about learning to drive a stick shift and what happened with that. PA: Ohhhh! Oh, well, okay, I’ll confess. I’ve broken two bones and neither one were mine. RS: Oh, my goodness! You have to, you have to spill what happened. PA: Well, the first bone I broke was Eva’s. She was in the first grade and I think I was in the third. We’d had fried chicken for supper. She went immediately outside and got on the swing set. Well, I got up and helped mom clean the table off and do that little bit, and then I went outside, and she asked me to swing her. So, I pulled the swing back. Anyway, she wound up slipping off the swing, fell on the ground and broke her arm. And she said I pushed her on purpose, well, she asked me to for one thing. But, another thing is, she got directly up from the table and went outside, so her fingers were greasy, I’m sure! RS: So, you’re blaming it on the fried chicken? PA: I’m blaming it on her, yeah. RS: Or the fried chicken. PA: Yes, yes. RS: So, what happened with the stick-shift? PA: The other bone I broke was my best friend’s femur. RS: OH! PA: It was the day after school let out, and I’m thinking. RS: Like for the summer? PA: Yes. I think, I don’t remember if we were sophomores or juniors now, but anyway, we were at her house. Nobody else was home but just us because her mom and dad worked. She had a stick shift car, standard. When I start mom’s car at that time, at home, to start it, you kind of had to give it a little gas at the same time you turned the ignition on. With the standard, which I had never been behind the wheel of a standard. The car wouldn’t start. So, my friend got out, told me slide over onto the driver’s seat. She opened the hood of the car like she knew what to do. She didn’t, but anyway. She told me to try to start it, so I gave it a little gas, and you weren’t supposed to do that. It was in neutral, but anyway, it rolled forward, the car rolled forward when I started it, and it pinned her in the carport. And it broke her leg. RS: Oh, my goodness! PA: So, she kind of hopped around and got back in the car, back in the car seat and her leg was kind of bowed, really awkward. And she said, I think my leg is broken. And I looked and her and said, no it’s not, not it’s not. Anyway, so I got, she said, I think you better go call my mom. So, you know, I go in the house, and I call her mom. And her mom was here at the house. They lived out in the country. She was there within five minutes. I mean, she must have just flown. But anyway, she wound up being in the hospital three weeks, I think, with that bone. She was in traction for one week for the swelling to go down. Of course, they put a pin in it. And then, you know, another week after the surgery, she was still in there. So, anyway, that was probably the most traumatic thing that ever happened. RS: What a story for Eva to tell me to ask you. PA: Right. RS: Oh, my goodness! Yeah, that’s terrible. Well, but I guess she got okay and everything. PA: Yeah, yeah. RS: Everything’s good. PA: About a year later, they took the bar back out of her bone and everything’s okay, I guess. RS: Well, remind me to never let you drive a stick shift. PA: Right. I don’t want to. RS: Oh, I bet. Okay, so what would, this is one you’re probably gonna have to think about. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? PA: Computer. RS: The computer. PA: Yeah, how could I do my research without my computer. RS: This is true. You know, I would probably agree with that. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? PA: It’s much busier, I think. Not as friendly. I hope it turns back that way, but life was so much more simple. RS: Well, I feel like in a lot of ways the, maybe my generation and younger, are trying to go back to some of the older ways…the gardening, the bread making, you know, the slowing down a little bit. I think we all have to work so hard to try to make a living that it’s just made everybody way too busy. PA: People just need to go out on their front porch and listen to the birds and wave to the neighbors. RS: I think I’m an old lady at heart, because that’s one of my most favorite things to do. And as you see it, what do you feel our nation’s biggest problem is and how do you think we could solve it? PA: Our biggest problem? RS: What’s our nation’s biggest problem right now? I’m challenging you, Paula. PA: I think it’s probably, well, I don’t know. I think now people think everything should be handed to them. And I think everyone needs to get to work. RS: To have the philosophy of our grandparents of working hard, working for what you have. Yeah, I would agree with that. PA: Well, it gives you self-worth, and I think everybody’s lacking that. RS: Yes, and I think there’s an element of pride there that has been lost, too. PA: Yes. RS: I would agree with you. How have historic events such as, say like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, natural disasters, world wars, covid, etc…how has that affected you? You can pick one or several. Do you have any memories of, you know, how you felt during those times? PA: Well, sad and devastated a lot. But as far as the Oklahoma City Bombing, my older son, Clinton was with an FFA group in Oklahoma City when that happened. RS: Oh my gosh. PA: And I was at Rainbow, you know, in the office working. Anyway, right next to the lobby and the TV was always on in the lobby at the nursing home. When that happened, of course, they come in and tell us what’s going on, and so, we walk out there and we are watching the TV, and I’m there for a couple of minutes and then it dawns on me. RS: Where your son is. PA: Clinton is on Oklahoma City, so where is he compared to where this bomb has gone off? RS: Oh, my goodness. PA: Anyway, he happened to be up at that time. They were in the motel room still. And they heard it. The other students that were still asleep were awoken by the bomb. It was loud enough to wake them up. But also, and of course, they were all okay. At that time, we had several of the nursing home employees in Oklahoma City. They were at like a webinar, seminar or something. And they said that they actually, and they were within a few blocks, like five blocks of it. When the bomb went off, they said they could feel the ripple in the building they were in. They could feel it go down the ceiling. RS: Oh, my goodness. PA: Just the ripple effect, and so, they were all very, very close. But as far as people here from Bristow that were in Oklahoma City at the time, they were all okay. RS: So, how did you make contact with your son, because I can’t imagine that there were no cell phone or anything. PA: No, we called the school. I called the school. They said we have just talked to the teacher and everybody is okay. There all still in the motel rooms. RS: Did they come home after that or did they go on? PA: I think they went ahead and stayed. RS: Oh, wow. I would have been like, it’s time for you to come home. Oh, my goodness. Is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? PA: Find out where you come from. You know, as far as RS: You have to know where you came from to know where you’re going. PA: Yes. And you’ll find skeletons in the closet as the old saying goes. You will, but that’s part of your life. That’s part of who you are, and it’s all interesting. It’s all fun. And it’s pretty amazing. RS: Well, I would agree, and I just have to say, getting to know you since being at the historical society has been a huge blessing in my life. And I’ve loved learning the knowledge. We joke. I call you the history wizard because whenever I’m working on my oral histories, I know I can always ask Paula, and she’s always going to have the answer for me. PA: I try! RS: You do a wonderful job. Well, this interview will become an important part of the oral history archives for the museum. I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it. Hopefully we’ll get to keep working together and we will keep on with the history. PA: Yeah, that sounds like fun! RS: Okay, thank you. PA: Thank you. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0055_Paula_Atwell.xml OHP-0055_Paula_Atwell.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Paula Atwell
Description
An account of the resource
Paula shares about her history growing up in the Bristow area, about her family and work life and her love for genealogy and history.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0055
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2024/05/01
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/92754103ac5e6687ed1fe6c8f901e220.jpg
b12443715b07f19d257e9109ba78b1a2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George Krumme
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0057_George_Krumme.xml
OHMS Object Text
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5.4 May 20, 2024 OHP-0057 George Krumme OHP-0057 01:16:53 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory George Krumme Regan Siler 1.0:|19(14)|36(5)|45(3)|55(21)|65(14)|72(15)|79(14)|90(9)|102(15)|111(17)|118(18)|126(11)|142(7)|162(8)|174(7)|187(9)|205(16)|222(17)|230(18)|252(5)|271(3)|283(11)|300(4)|318(10)|326(14)|336(14)|352(16)|363(9)|379(16)|405(7)|425(6)|433(11)|446(16)|454(4)|466(10)|478(12)|497(15)|504(8)|524(8)|535(18)|553(7)|562(16)|576(16)|590(15)|611(6)|628(15)|647(5)|662(8)|669(7)|685(16)|702(3)|710(3)|725(12)|736(13)|750(5)|757(11)|768(10)|776(12)|793(8)|809(3)|819(5)|840(13)|854(11)|869(14)|885(15)|898(3)|905(15)|913(3)|927(12)|950(7)|962(10)|976(4)|1004(3)|1017(17)|1035(6)|1042(11)|1071(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0057 Krumme, George.mp4 Other audio 4 Early Life & ; Family RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 20, 2024, and I’m sitting here with Mr. George Krumme at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little about his life, his history with Community Bank and his history with the Bristow community. Can you please tell me your full name?
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 ; GK: George William Krumme.
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 ; RS: Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview?
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 ; GK: Certainly.
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 ; RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born?
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 ; GK: I was born December 15, 1922 at a farm about three miles northeast of Okemah, Oklahoma.
 ; Mr. Krumme was born northeast of Okemah and talks about his mother, father and siblings. Okemah (Okla.) ; Roy Archibald Krumme ; Ruth Bryan Krumme ; Margaret Ruth Krumme Pickett ; Rachel Augusta Krumme Mcmillen ; Roy Halrlan Krumme ; Jefferson Bryan Krumme family 0 120 George's Father, Roy Archibald Krumme GK: My father was reared a farmer. He was born in 1892, and at that time, the vast majority of citizens in this country were farmers. His family was a large family, which was not all that unusual. His grandfather was, paternal grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, and his maternal grandmother was named McBride. She was Scotch-Irish, and we never knew where they came from, but the family, his grandfather, actually, ran a shoe store in St. Joseph, Missouri. His family, his father was a farmer and farmed the glacial soils, much better soil than Oklahoma’s in northwestern Missouri. The family moved to Chandler in Oklahoma territory about 1900 because my maternal grandmother, pardon me, pardon me. My paternal grandmother McBride’s [Dora Ellen McBride Krumme 1873-1972] father, John McBride [John Wesley McBride 1840-1904] had purchased a homestead. That is to say, he worked at the homestead at Chandler [Oklahoma] in the Sac, Sac Indian.
 ; Mr. Krumme's father was reared a farmer and moved to Chandler in Oklahoma Territory. St. Joseph (Mo.) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Dora Ellen McBride Krumme ; John Wesley McBride ; Iowa Tribe ; J.W. Krumme ; Indian Territory ; Okemah (Okla.) ; C.C."Kit" Walker ; First National Bank of Okemah Father 0 725 Early Childhood RS: So, when did you actually, when did your family move to Bristow? How old were you?
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 ; GK: I would have been six-years-old. Let me see, I would have been seven. 
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 ; RS: Seven.
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 ; GK: It was 1930. My two sisters and my older brother needed to go to high school, junior high for some, but high school, I think for Margaret. For, maybe two years, certainly a year, my two sisters lived with a boarding house with a woman that my mother had become acquainted with, because mother didn’t want one girl to be there by herself. I think they were 13 and 15 or 14 and 12. I don’t know about that. But, at any rate, they lived there, but then when Harlan got close, they decided that we should move to Bristow. And one year we moved, renting, that is, mother and just the children. Dad stayed at Tuskegee [Oklahoma], mostly, although he came in on the weekends. At any rate, we rented a house for one year, and then the next year in 1930, we bought our home at 409 West 11th Street [Bristow, Oklahoma].
 ; George talks about moving to Bristow. He also mentions his siblings and some of the games he enjoyed as a child. Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jefferson Bryan Krumme ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Creek County (Okla.) ; Deep Fork (Okla.) Childhood 0 1162 Automobiles GK: So, really it was impractical although, obviously, in good weather, we, quite frequently, went to visit the family.
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 ; RS: And how did you travel? In what manner did you travel?
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 ; GK: By the twenties, cars were quite common.
 ; George talks about automobiles that were around in his childhood. He mentions his father owning a Dodge Coupe and then later a Model-T Ford. Dodge Coupe ; Model-T Ford Automobiles 0 1252 Mother's Family GK: My mother’s family, my mother was one of eight. She was the next to the youngest child. Her father [Jefferson Scott Bryan 1849-1894] had died when she was six-years-old of tuberculosis, the white death. They lived at Republic, Missouri, just out of Springfield. Grandfather, Jefferson Bryan was his name. Mother’s name was Bryan as I told you. Had contracted tuberculosis which was quite common, even, I think, worse in England than here, that I have seen the numbers of famous people who died of tuberculosis in the late 1800’s in England, and it’s astounding. But it was also became common in the United States, and my grandfather, my mother’s father contracted it and was dying. Geoge's mother was one of eight children. They lived in Missouri. Her father died of tuberculosis when George's mother was 6 years old. He had traveled to Arizona for treatment. Jefferson Scott Bryan ; Republic (Mo.) ; Springfield (Mo.) ; England ; Tuberculosis ; United States ; Phoenix (Ariz.) Family 0 1422 Schooling RS: Your schooling, elementary school?
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 ; GK: All this background is to say that my mother was one of eight girls, pardon me, six girls and two boys. The two boys were both young. One was just older than her, and the other one was just younger. The others concentrated on teaching. Several of them, I won’t say all of them, but several of them taught, including, eventually, my mother, briefly. George recalls starting school when he was 5 years old. His aunt was his first teacher and he was in class with his cousin, Charles. He graduated from Bristow High School at 16 years old. Nellie Bryan Woford ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Charles Bryan Woford ; Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Bristow High School school 0 1762 Oklahoma A& ; M RS: That’s amazing. So, I also read that you attended college at Texas A& ; M as a music major? 
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 ; GK: No, it was Oklahoma A& ; M.
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 ; RS: Oklahoma A& ; M.
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 ; GK: At Stillwater.
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 ; RS: Okay.
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 ; GK: Not Texas, I’ve never been.
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 ; RS: Okay, so that wasn’t right. Okay.
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 ; GK: I went there two years. The first year, since I had played in the band, seriously, and fancied that I had some musical talents, I planned on being a band major, drum, pardon me, a band teacher, a band director.
 ; George attended Oklahoma A& ; M University in Stillwater. He majored in music his first year and planned on becoming a band director. He quickly realized that was not what he wanted to do so he enrolled in pre-law his second year of college. Oklahoma A& ; M ; Stillwater (Okla.) Oklahoma A& ; M 0 1850 Spartan School of Aeronautics RS: Okay. Alright. And then I also read, did you attend Spartan School of Aeronautics?
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 ; GK: This would have been in 1941, and they had just passed, sometime the previous period, a draft. And, while I would have not been eligible yet for the draft, we faced draft and were concerned about going to war. And my cousin, Charles, had already quit. He was going to Stillwater, but he only went one year and was going to Spartan School of Aeronautics studying mechanics. He convinced me that if I would enroll in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics, I would be in a vital industry, and I would be free from the draft. I was 18-years-old. I had finished two years when I enrolled in Spartan School of Aeronautics and took a, supposedly, a year training program. It was supposed to be a full year.
 ; George enrolled in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics. His cousin, Charles, convinced him that this should make him free from the draft. When the war began, George was hired to teach weather to aviation cadets. Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, Okla.) ; Draft ; War Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, Okla.) 0 1966 Teaching Aviation Cadets RS: So, you were only 18 whenever you did that?
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 ; GK: I was hired, I was 19 by the time I was, let’s see was I 19? Yes, I was 19 by the time I was hired to teach aviation cadets, and I did teach at, I was a junior instructor in meteorology, I believe it was, hired by the civil service at $2000 a year. I taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas for the most of the rest of 1942. George Krumme taught aviation cadets. He was hired when he was 19. He taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas. Later he enlisted in a pre-meteorology sea program and was there until it was cancelled after a year. Perrin Field ; Sherman (Tex.) ; lieutenant ; Pomona College (Claremont, Calif.) Aviation 0 2130 Infantry GK: But, at any rate, a few of us out of the 200 of us who were originally in the program, a few of us were sent to the infantry, so I was sent to the infantry in, I think it was March or April of 1943, and I became a machine gun trainee, shall we say, in Company G, 274th Infantry Regiment, 70th Infantry Division. I went overseas with them and was in our first, by the time I went overseas, I was promoted to be squad leader. I had four men under me, a machine gunner and an assistant machine gunner and two ammo bearers who [indecipherable] and a spare barrel for the machine gun, which was the light air-cooled machine gun, not the water cooled. But I was squad leader by the time we got overseas. George became a machine gun trainee in the infantry in 1943. He was a squad leader by the time they were sent overseas. He received a silver star and was commissioned as Second Lieutenant. Infantry ; Germans ; Alsace (France) ; Silver Star ; Second Lieutenant Infantry 0 2342 Life After the War RS: That’s amazing. How long were you active in the military before you returned to Pomona College?
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 ; GK: From the time I enlisted, I was in 3-1/2 years because when the war was over, since I had, we had arrived there late, we stayed for an extra six or seven months before we could be sent home. So, I came home in April or May of 1946 and applied at Pomona and they were willing to accept me. And since I had so many hours at A& ; M [Oklahoma A& ; M], plus a full year of concentrated, I could graduate with a degree in one semester, which I did. I got out in January of ’47. My father had already offered my brother an opportunity to join a company that he had just formed in the previous few years, Krumme Oil Company. He offered me the same opportunity, although my brother had a degree from OU [University of Oklahoma] in petroleum engineering, just at the war ended. He had no experience, but nevertheless, the two of us worked with him first, mainly, as drilling contractors, drilling with cable tools, but eventually, building up a company that had production.
 ; George finished up his degree at Oklahoma A& ; M when he returned home from the war. He then worked with his brother at Krumme Oil Company (a company his father had formed.) George and his wife, Eddy, moved from Bristow to Tulsa in 1960. He went to night school and received his masters of petroleum engineering from the University of Tulsa. Later he went on to get his PhD in geology. Pomona College (Claremont, Calif.) ; Krumme Oil Company ; University of Oklahoma ; Edwynne Rollstone Freeland Krumme ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Oklahoma Geological Survey War 0 2564 Marriage RS: That’s amazing. Well, you mentioned your wife, so let me, if you don’t mind, let me ask you about your first wife. When and where did you meet her?
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 ; GK: We met when she was, probably, a sophomore and I was, well, just graduated, a freshman. I was, had just graduated as a junior. And, so, we went together all the time I was in high school, and even when I was at A& ; M [Oklahoma A& ; M], I came home for her, and I’ve never had another date with any girl.
 ; George was first married to Edwynne Rollstone. They dated while George was in high school and even while he attended Oklahoma A& ; M. She suffered from dementia in her later years and passed away in 2011. He later married Aldean Thompson. They had actually been neighbors in Bristow when George was sixteen and Aldean was ten. Oklahoma A& ; M ; Edwynne Rollstone Krumme ; Dementia ; Grace "Aldean" Thompson Newcomb Krumme ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Amaron Petroleum Marriage 0 2709 Children and Grandchildren RS: Okay, can you tell me how many children you have and what their names are, please?
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 ; GK: Two sons. Eddy and I had David in 1948, and David William Krumme [2/1/1948-2/15/2013], and Robert Bryan Krumme in 1950.
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 ; RS: Okay.
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 ; GK: May 27th.
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 ; RS: Okay. Can you tell me, do you have grandchildren?
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 ; GK: I have four grandchildren, two living in, David’s two children live in Estes Park, Colorado, or the area and have no children. Robert’s two children, a boy and a girl, live with, also all three of them live in the south part of Jenks [Oklahoma], live in Jenks.
 ; George Krumme has two sons, David and Robert. He has four grandchildren. David Willaim Krumme ; Robert Bryan Krumme ; Estes Park (Colo.) ; Jenks (Okla.) Children ; Grandchildren 0 2788 Occupation RS: Okay, and then you had mentioned to me that you spent your entire career in the oil business. Was that just with family business with Krumme Oil?
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 ; GK: Krumme Oil Company, yes.
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 ; RS: Okay, okay. Well, now that we have a little background on you, I would like to talk to you a little bit about your involvement with Community Bank. George spent many years in the oil business (Krumme Oil Company.) His father was invited to be on the board at Community Bank in 1930. When his father passed away in 1975, Geoge and his brother alternated being on the board. Krumme Oil Company ; Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Community Bank ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Krumme Truck and Implement Agency ; Oldsmobile Automobile Agency ; Chamber of Commerce occupation 0 3017 Banking in Bristow GK: Only about three years after dad died, the Foster brothers wanted to sell the bank, and there were several of us on the board who were children, sons of previous board members. Roger Collins was on the board. David Loeffler [10/20/1920-8/10/1986] was on the board. And Tom McAdams [4/6/1919-3/6/1991], all four of our fathers, had been on the board. And we decided to buy the bank. I think the year was 1978 is my guess. George and three other board members bought Community Bank from the Foster brothers in 1978. There were originally four banks in Bristow but later was narrowed down to two (Community Bank and what is now SpiritBank.) Community Bank was able to survive the Depression because of its cautious lending and good management. Roger Collins ; David Loeffler ; Tom McAdams ; Anadarko (Okla.) ; Hugo (Okla.) ; Community State ; First State Bank ; Community State Bank ; Bristow National Bank ; First National Bank ; American National Bank ; Arthur Foster ; Great Depression ; Albert Charles Kelly ; President Roosevelt ; Governor Murray ; Chamber of Commerce ; scrip banking ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 3600 Great Depression and the Dust Bowl RS: Okay. And if the Great Depression wasn’t hard enough, that also transitioned into the Dust Bowl time period. What was life like for families and businesses during that time period of the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl era?
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 ; GK: Bristow claimed to have about 12,000 at one time. But by the time the Depression was over, it was down to about 3,000 or so. Now, I’m not sure about that. It might have been 4,000, but at any rate, it has maintained about 4,000 ever since. The Depression caused empty houses throughout Bristow. Bristow claimed to have a population of about 12,000 before the Depression. After the Depression population in Bristow was down to about 3,000 to 4,000. Many people went to California. Bristow was affected like the rest of the country during the Depression. Great Depression ; Dust Bowl ; California ; Edison School ; Washington Elementary School Great Depression ; Dust Bowl 0 3720 Community Bank RS: Yeah, what year did you take an active role with Community Bank, and can you tell us how that opportunity presented itself?
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 ; GK: I think it was in 1978, well, no my first was because my father died in ’75, and I suspect that Robert, pardon me, I suspect that my older brother Harlan was put on the board first as the older brother, and I normally went on there in 1976 or seven or something like that.
 ; George was put on the board at Community Bank in 1976 or 1977, after his father passed. Community Bank was one of two banks in Bristow in the late 1920's. It was formed when two banks went under to make Community. Bristow had American National and what was then Community State Bank. The name changed to just Community Bank around 1979. Eventually George and his brother ended up owning all of the shares to Community Bank. It has grown to be an equal competitor with Spirtbank (originally American National.) Community Bank ; American National Bank ; Sooner Southwest Bankshares Inc. ; Oklahoma Southwestern ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Hugo (Okla.) ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; SpiritBank Community Bank 0 4368 Future of Community Bank RS: Yes, you have wonderful employees there. Okay, well let’s talk about the future of Community Bank. This might be a hard one. Where do you see it in the next 100 years?
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 ; GK: I have no idea about what will happen to anything in the next 100 years, but all I can do is anticipate that they will continue to be successful, and certainly, I hope so.
 ; George anticipates that Community Bank will continue to be successful in the years to come. Community Bank ; future future ; Community Bank 0 4392 Inventions RS: Continued success. I think so, too. Well, shifting from bank history, I’d like to ask you a couple of fun questions, and we are about to wrap this up, okay? What would you consider to be the most important invention during your life time?
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 ; GK: Well, all I can say the thing that probably has turned the world upside down more than anything else, is electronics. The latest thing, which in communications and all that. Of course, both airplanes and cars had come in by the time that I was born. Radio was just really prospering when I was born. George reminisces that radio was really starting to prosper when he was born, later followed by the television. Bristow had one of the first radio stations in Oklahoma. Electronics ; radio ; television Inventions 0 4485 Wisdom from a long and healthy life RS: Okay, so as someone that’s 101, what type of wisdom would you like to share with us of your secret to a long and healthy life? 
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 ; GK: Oh.
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 ; RS: Tell us your secrets!
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 ; GK: I don’t really know that I have, would presume to give a secret. All I can say is, that I have tried to exhibit integrity, honesty and, I will say, continued attention to work. George finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says that he has tried to exhibit integrity and give attention to his work. He mentions he was fortunate enough to make the right decisions and believes luck also plays a part in success. wisdom ; Community Bank Wisdom 0 MP3 Mr. Krumme shares about his life as a youngster growing up and going to school in the Okemah, Tuskegee and Bristow area. He talks about attending college and joining the service, as well as, returning home to start his career at Krumme Oil Company. He shares about his married and family life and talks, extensively, about his history with Community Bank and what his hopes are for the future of Community Bank. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 20, 2024, and I’m sitting here with Mr. George Krumme at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little about his life, his history with Community Bank and his history with the Bristow community. Can you please tell me your full name? GK: George William Krumme. RS: Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview? GK: Certainly. RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? GK: I was born December 15, 1922 at a farm about three miles northeast of Okemah, Oklahoma. RS: Okay, and can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What was your father’s full name? GK: My father was Roy Archibald Krumme [8/28/1892 – 2/25/1975]. He never liked the name Archibald, so he, generally, signed Roy A. or R.A. Krumme. My mother’s name was Ruth Bryan [1888-1963]. She had no middle name, so her name was Ruth Bryan Krumme. RS: Okay, and did you have any siblings? GK: I have three older siblings and a younger. The oldest child was Margaret [Margaret Ruth Krumme Pickett 7/6/1913-2/8/2003]. Rachel [Rachel Augusta Krumme McMillen 1916-1990] was next. And then my brother, Harlan [Roy Harlan Krumme 5/19/1919-11/22/1998], whose actual name was Roy Harlan, but always called Harlan. My younger brother was Jefferson Bryan [Jefferson Bryan Krumme 1924-2008], named for his maternal grandfather. RS: Okay, alright. And what type of work did your parents do? GK: My father was reared a farmer. He was born in 1892, and at that time, the vast majority of citizens in this country were farmers. His family was a large family, which was not all that unusual. His grandfather was, paternal grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, and his maternal grandmother was named McBride. She was Scotch-Irish, and we never knew where they came from, but the family, his grandfather, actually, ran a shoe store in St. Joseph, Missouri. His family, his father was a farmer and farmed the glacial soils, much better soil than Oklahoma’s in northwestern Missouri. The family moved to Chandler in Oklahoma territory about 1900 because my maternal grandmother, pardon me, pardon me. My paternal grandmother McBride’s [Dora Ellen McBride Krumme 1873-1972] father, John McBride [John Wesley McBride 1840-1904] had purchased a homestead. That is to say, he worked at the homestead at Chandler [Oklahoma] in the Sac, Sac Indian. RS: The Sac and Fox? GK: No. No, I’m sorry. I take it back. It was not Sac and Fox. It was the Iowa Tribe ; a very small tribe that had surplus that was made available by run. The person, the man who made the run really was a speculator. All he wanted was the property, and he did not go very far. He sold it for $25 to my Grandfather McBride. At any rate, my parents came at his invitation and insistence, I suppose, from good farm land in Missouri to questionable farm land in the hills and black jacks and post oaks west of Chandler [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. GK: And they, he was elderly, and they occupied his, part of his 168 acres of land, and when he died, by the time he died, which I think was about five years later, they had been there farming, doing most of the farming, because I think he was [indecipherable] and I believe that he was rather elderly. All this is a little bit unessential, but nevertheless, the farm family was quite large. The Krumme, the J.W. Krumme family, my grandfather’s family had fifteen children born in it. My father was the number two. His older sister, he had an older sister, but he was the oldest boy, and as such, he really was the assistant, shall we say, principal assistant as most children, boys particularly, were in the farming part of it. The ladies looked after the homes more than the farms, of course. Although, they worked, too, really. At any rate, my father, therefore, had to learn an awful lot and be more ambitious or aggressive member of the family. He really was quite enterprising. But the family, in 1906, after my great-grandfather died, had an opportunity, or saw the opportunity, to go to Indian Territory because the allotees, the Indian allotees and Freedman allotees, were selling, quite frequently, there allotments. So, they, the full family came to northeast of Okemah [Oklahoma], not where I was born but about a mile away, and bought, eventually. They leased for years. I never knew when they finally did buy it, but they leased half of a Creek Indian allotee woman, allotment, because the allotment was split into two different 80’s about a mile apart, 80-acre tracts. They leased one and built a house on it, and, eventually, bought it, including half of the mineral rights which was quite common in those days. The Indians would keep half of the mineral rights in case, someday, something was found there. RS: Right, so, you said you were born a few miles outside of Okemah [Oklahoma], how long did you live there as a youngster? GK: One year. RS: You only lived there one year? GK: My father, at the age of 18 or 19, applied and passed, pardon me, passed an examination to be a rural mail carrier, in addition to, he did some farming, but he had worked other places. He had actually worked for a bridge company, just as a teenager. Even as far as Kay County, as I said, he was quite enterprising. He passed the examination and was allowed to be, hired to be a rural mail carrier out of Okemah [Oklahoma] and did so for a half a dozen years, while moonlighting, shall we say, also, buying land and farming on his own. And leasing, he bought land and leased it out and let other people farm it. It was quite common. But, at any rate, he had bought this particular 80 for himself, where I was born. My two sisters were born in the metropolis, shall we say, of Okemah, Oklahoma, but by the time my older brother was born, we had actually, the family had moved to the farm northeast of Okemah [Oklahoma]. And I was born three-and-a-half years later in the same place. But I only lived there a year because my father had, in his business affairs, buying land on credit, had dealt with a banker named C.C. Walker [C.C. “Kit” Walker] at, I think it was, First National Bank of Okemah [Oklahoma]. At any rate, Walker had put together, a couple of decades earlier, a community north of Okemah [Oklahoma], 18 miles where he had built a cotton gin and a general store, which he ran for a decade or so. And then got interested in the bank at Okemah [Oklahoma], at any rate, he was an officer of the bank. And he had taken to leasing out his land, and he owned more than two thousand, somewhere between one thousand and three thousand, not all owned, some of it was leased from the Indians who had kept it, but did not live on it. At any rate, he leased to my father the entire package, and the little village. It was hardly even a village. There were only a half a dozen or so houses close to the store and the gin. He leased it for a five-year period for $5000 a year because he had faith in my father. And my father would have been in his early 30’s which is quite young to absorb that much responsibility. But, as I say, he was quite competent. At any rate, we moved there was when I was one-year-old, because the lease began in 1924, and he kept that lease by three renewals of five years, and then one year afterwards. So, he was there 16 years. RS: So, when did you actually, when did your family move to Bristow? How old were you? GK: I would have been six-years-old. Let me see, I would have been seven. RS: Seven. GK: It was 1930. My two sisters and my older brother needed to go to high school, junior high for some, but high school, I think for Margaret. For, maybe two years, certainly a year, my two sisters lived with a boarding house with a woman that my mother had become acquainted with, because mother didn’t want one girl to be there by herself. I think they were 13 and 15 or 14 and 12. I don’t know about that. But, at any rate, they lived there, but then when Harlan got close, they decided that we should move to Bristow. And one year we moved, renting, that is, mother and just the children. Dad stayed at Tuskegee [Oklahoma], mostly, although he came in on the weekends. At any rate, we rented a house for one year, and then the next year in 1930, we bought our home at 409 West 11th Street [Bristow, Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. GK: He bought our home at 409 West 11th Street. RS: Okay. Well, can I ask you a little bit about your early childhood and your home life? I just wanted to get a few details from you, maybe. Do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played? GK: One of the favorite games for all, not just country people, but city people, was croquet. RS: Croquet? GK: And I don’t know that anybody plays croquet anymore, but it was a very good game and quite enjoyable, and we played croquet on the lawn. We had Bermuda grass lawn, and we had court with wickets and stakes, and we played croquet. There was not an awful lot, of course, in the country to do, but I do remember one of the things that we did was roll a hoop, a steel barrel hoop, maybe about eight or ten inches around from a little barrel. But it was a flat hoop which rolled in front of us with a stick, with a little guide, shall we say, at the bottom of it. And that was a quite common thing for kids to do. RS: Well, that’s interesting. GK: And, of course, the cotton gin being there, we roamed around and spent quite a, often, I should say, in the cotton house, because the cotton seed house. The cotton seed sticks together quite well, and because of the lint that’s on the seed until it goes to further treatment from a cotton gin. We used to play in there digging caves and so forth. And, of course, the cotton gin had to have water because it was a steam engine power, and we swam in the pond in the summer time. We all learned to swim when we were quite young. RS: Well, that sounds like fun. Did you have any particular chores that you were expected to do when you were a youngster? GK: Actually, my brother, older brother was old enough that he had to milk a cow. Not always, because dad had several hired people who did it, and I don’t remember exactly when it began. I did learn to milk a cow, but I never was really responsible because we left when I was seven. RS: Okay, okay. And, did you have any hobbies or anything that you enjoyed growing up as a youngster? GK: I can’t say I had hobbies, but, of course, we played the children’s games with the other kids. Marbles, for example, and I don’t remember that we ever played Keeps, which you couldn’t [indecipherable] if you prevailed in flipping a marble out of a ring. You could keep that marble. RS: Oh! Okay. GK: We were less aggressive, shall we say. But we did play marbles. The girls played jacks, but I don’t think we boys ever were such sissies as to play jacks. RS: Well, that’s interesting. GK: I never had chores. Really, my father favored us as fat as that’s concerned. I probably didn’t pick cotton except just for fun. I say for fun, maybe five minutes. I mean, virtually none. RS: Right. GK: Of course, picking cotton is a terrible chore. RS: A tough job. GK: It’s very hard on the back, but it was a common occupation, shall we say, in the fall harvesting, because cotton was the cash crop in the country. RS: Yes. GK: You raised corn for your cattle and horses and did not sell much if any. I can’t say because I was not really involved in it. But, at any rate, my father never did really have us work in the farm. But in 1930, we moved and began to go to school and lived in Bristow, except that on the weekends, we two boys, George and Jeff [Jefferson Bryan Krumme], had to go with mother because we were young and she didn’t want to leave us in town on weekends, because she wanted to be with dad as much as she could. It was 18 miles in from Tuskegee to Bristow, just as it happened to be 18 miles south to Okemah [Oklahoma]. The reason we, actually, turned to Bristow rather than Okemah when we had to go to school, was that Tuskegee is located just one mile inside Creek County, which was a little bit of a reason to go to Bristow. The honest reason was Deep Fork River flowed south about on the county line, about a mile and a quarter south of Tuskegee, and there was an extensive bottom, probably two or three miles wide that, when it flooded, you could not make it to Okemah. RS: Right. GK: So, really it was impractical although, obviously, in good weather, we, quite frequently, went to visit the family. RS: And how did you travel? In what manner did you travel? GK: By the twenties, cars were quite common. RS: Cars. GK: Yeah. RS: Do you remember you first car your family had? GK: I remember the first one was, one of the first ones was a Dodge Coupe when I was young. However, we had a second car, but I do know that my father in his mail carrying had already, I think in 1917, had, maybe ’18, had bought a Model-T Ford. Half of the cars in the country clear into the mid-twenties were Model-T Fords. Model-T was the most practical. It was really the car of the century. RS: Right, right. GK: But we did own a Dodge Coupe, because I can remember riding in it when I was probably three-years-old or four, when you first remember. But I can’t, I don’t remember what the other car was. RS: Okay, that’s okay. GK: Dad, well, go ahead and ask me the next question. RS: Okay, well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your school life. Where did you attend elementary school? GK: My mother’s family, my mother was one of eight. She was the next to the youngest child. Her father [Jefferson Scott Bryan 1849-1894] had died when she was six-years-old of tuberculosis, the white death. They lived at Republic, Missouri, just out of Springfield. Grandfather, Jefferson Bryan was his name. Mother’s name was Bryan as I told you. Had contracted tuberculosis which was quite common, even, I think, worse in England than here, that I have seen the numbers of famous people who died of tuberculosis in the late 1800’s in England, and it’s astounding. But it was also became common in the United States, and my grandfather, my mother’s father contracted it and was dying. They RS: Wasn’t it very contagious, though? GK: It was quite contagious. RS: I wonder how they contained it within their family without the whole family GK: No one else in the family got it. RS: That’s amazing. GK: Well, I cannot say that. Nobody else in the family…if anybody got it, they survived. RS: Right. GK: Mother never said whether others did pass. But, at any rate, he was obviously dying, and he was a carpenter. He went to Arizona where the dry air was supposed to be RS: Better. GK: Beneficial. He was there only, I’m sure he took the train. He was there only one week, and he had gone to a doctor in a small town near Phoenix [Arizona], and had hired somebody, it was a wagon, to take him into Phoenix, I do not know why, but there was a newspaper article that I have a copy of about the fact that on the way in the, in the wagon, he died. He had been there less than a week. RS: Oh, no. GK: He was buried in the original Phoenix [Arizona] graveyard downtown RS: Wow! GK: Because it was 1895 and it wasn’t a very big town at all. RS: Right. GK: At any rate, nobody was there for the funeral, obviously, it was too far by car. And he never had a gravestone until the late 20’s, when we finally, the families went west and put a gravestone on his grave. But, at any rate, as far as RS: Your schooling, elementary school? GK: All this background is to say that my mother was one of eight girls, pardon me, six girls and two boys. The two boys were both young. One was just older than her, and the other one was just younger. The others concentrated on teaching. Several of them, I won’t say all of them, but several of them taught, including, eventually, my mother, briefly. But my Aunt Nell [Nellie Bryan Woford 1882-1953], her next oldest sister, lived in Okemah [Oklahoma] and, of course, I will say my father and mother both were living near Okemah [Oklahoma]. My mother only [indecipherable], my grandmother, my mother’s mother, had bought on credit, everybody had to buy on credit, an 80 acres only a mile or so from my father’s place was. They met there. At any rate, her sister, a few years older, five or six years older, was teaching at a time that I was to go to school. She was a widow with only one child, a boy, just six months older than I. Charles was his name. Charles B. Woford [Charles Bryan Woford]. My, I’m sure it was at the arrangement of my father, she was hired to teach at Tuskegee’s elementary school, the first four grades. When she came, it was time for Charles to go to school because I was turning six. RS: You went, too, didn’t you? GK: I was still five, but he had turned six and was going to first grade, and she wanted me as his best friend and closest, to go to school at the same time. So, even though I was not quite six yet, I was born in December and school started in September, so I started to school at five, because of Charles being with my teacher, Aunt Nell. Now, my memory is that there were about twelve in our first-grade class. It’s vague. But we sat on benches. I don’t remember that we even had backs. Surely, we did. They were not desks. I do remember that. RS: Right. GK: We may have had backs. But, at any rate, I went to school to her for two years. But the next year was when we moved physically to Bristow. RS: So, in doing research on you, I learned that you graduated from Bristow High School at sixteen. Is that because your Aunt Nell was teaching you really early? GK: Well, it’s a combination. I had two years under Aunt Nell at Tuskegee. When I went to Bristow, the principal of the school, Mrs. Wolfe, I believe, interviewed me for placement. Bristow, at the time, was crowded in schools because the oil boom had started in 1920, and although it had expired by 1930, the schools had adopted, during the meantime, something which was not terribly rare, of having school divided so that you could enter a child who had not yet entered at six in September, you could enter in first grade in January. RS: Oh, okay. Right. GK: So, they had, therefore, in every class had a 1A, which had gone first in September, and then class 1B, which was in, no I’m backward. 1B was, now let me stop and think. RS: A was probably September. GK: Yes, no. September was A and…at any rate. RS: I get what you’re, I get. GK: I can’t remember. All I know is that she said you are ahead of the kids who are going into third grade at September. I’m going to move you a half grade ahead to the ones who came in September, which I think was 3A. RS: Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. GK: The A was there. But, when I was in the fifth grade for the next year, they cut out all the half grades, and they divided the ones who were not quite as fast went back and repeated a half year, and the ones who were ahead went ahead to the next grade. RS: And, you went ahead. GK: And, so I skipped a half grade there, which meant that I really was a graduate of high school at sixteen. RS: That’s amazing. So, I also read that you attended college at Texas A& ; amp ; M as a music major? GK: No, it was Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M. RS: Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M. GK: At Stillwater. RS: Okay. GK: Not Texas, I’ve never been. RS: Okay, so that wasn’t right. Okay. GK: I went there two years. The first year, since I had played in the band, seriously, and fancied that I had some musical talents, I planned on being a band major, drum, pardon me, a band teacher, a band director. RS: Right. GK: So, I was in music school, and it did not take me more than a semester or so to realize that I neither had the talents, I had never learned to play the piano. And that’s an awful nice ability for any musician. RS: Right. GK: And, also, I was not talented enough really interested in being a band director, so the second year, I enrolled as a in pre-law is what they called it. RS: Pre-law. Okay, and this was at Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M? GK: Stillwater. RS: Okay. Alright. And then I also read, did you attend Spartan School of Aeronautics? GK: This would have been in 1941, and they had just passed, sometime the previous period, a draft. And, while I would have not been eligible yet for the draft, we faced draft and were concerned about going to war. And my cousin, Charles, had already quit. He was going to Stillwater, but he only went one year and was going to Spartan School of Aeronautics studying mechanics. He convinced me that if I would enroll in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics, I would be in a vital industry, and I would be free from the draft. I was 18-years-old. I had finished two years when I enrolled in Spartan School of Aeronautics and took a, supposedly, a year training program. It was supposed to be a full year. RS: Right. GK: However, half-way through, this would have been ’41 when I began in probably June or May, at any rate, at the end of school, the war started. They desperately needed people to teach weather to aviation cadets. And I think all twelve of us, or however many there were, were hired. RS: So, you were only 18 whenever you did that? GK: I was hired, I was 19 by the time I was, let’s see was I 19? Yes, I was 19 by the time I was hired to teach aviation cadets, and I did teach at, I was a junior instructor in meteorology, I believe it was, hired by the civil service at $2000 a year. I taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas for the most of the rest of 1942. And, there, Major Bligh (ph) who was head of the ground school said, I’ll try to get you commissioned as a second lieutenant, because you have, certainly, the background, but at the same time, I read a pamphlet that was there that I could apply for a training in the air corp as an enlisted man. Oh, well, first, I left out something. I was still teaching as a civilian when my father told me that his friends at the draft board said George is going to be drafted soon. This was in November or December, and so I, rather than be drafted, Major Bligh (ph) said why don’t you enlist right here. I hate to lose you as a teacher, and you can be assigned. I’ll have the camp commander assign you back to teaching. So, I taught as a private. RS: Wow. GK: Rather than a civilian, and that’s when he said, I can, perhaps, get you a commission, but I had an opportunity to enlist in what was called a pre-meteorology sea program. There were about fifteen liberal arts schools. There were about 250 of us in the one that I attended, which was at Pomona College in Claremont, California. So, anyhow, I went there for a full year, and then, unfortunately, after the end of it, the program, every program was canceled of that sort. They even canceled most cadets because they needed soldiers more than they needed, they did not need that many weather officers. They even knew it, I’m sure. RS: Right. GK: But, at any rate, a few of us out of the 200 of us who were originally in the program, a few of us were sent to the infantry, so I was sent to the infantry in, I think it was March or April of 1943, and I became a machine gun trainee, shall we say, in Company G, 274th Infantry Regiment, 70th Infantry Division. I went overseas with them and was in our first, by the time I went overseas, I was promoted to be squad leader. I had four men under me, a machine gunner and an assistant machine gunner and two ammo bearers who [indecipherable] and a spare barrel for the machine gun, which was the light air-cooled machine gun, not the water cooled. But I was squad leader by the time we got overseas. RS: So, were you like 19 or 20 at this time? GK: I was 20-years-old. RS: Twenty-years-old. Oh, my goodness. GK: Let me see. No, when I went overseas, we went overseas in ’44, and so I would have been 21. RS: Twenty-one, wow! Okay. GK: I would have been almost 22, but at any rate, our first action was against, invading a small regiment of Germans who had infiltrated, single-file and captured a little town in Alsace, northeastern France. We had been there only a week or so, brand new and untrained, unexperienced, I should say. But, at any rate, our battalion happened to be charged to drive them out. There were two hundred and…no 725 of them had invaded and it took three or four days for various entities to drive them out. But my battalion was the last one, and it was successful. Only 225 Germans escaped. The rest were either captured or wounded or killed. But my company was involved in the very last act. I was, I performed an act, at least that I got a sliver star for. RS: A silver star? GK: In that, and several weeks later when I was awarded the silver star, I was also commissioned as Second Lieutenant and became a platoon leader as a Second Lieutenant for the rest of the war. RS: Can I ask you, during that time, being a young man, how did you feel? I can’t imagine being sent over there. How did you feel? GK: Oh, I was one of millions, so I didn’t feel strange at all. It was just part of it. RS: You just did it. You just did it. You didn’t have time think you were scared or worried. GK: There was no point in concern about it. RS: That’s amazing. How long were you active in the military before you returned to Pomona College? GK: From the time I enlisted, I was in 3-1/2 years because when the war was over, since I had, we had arrived there late, we stayed for an extra six or seven months before we could be sent home. So, I came home in April or May of 1946 and applied at Pomona and they were willing to accept me. And since I had so many hours at A& ; amp ; M [Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M], plus a full year of concentrated, I could graduate with a degree in one semester, which I did. I got out in January of ’47. My father had already offered my brother an opportunity to join a company that he had just formed in the previous few years, Krumme Oil Company. He offered me the same opportunity, although my brother had a degree from OU [University of Oklahoma] in petroleum engineering, just at the war ended. He had no experience, but nevertheless, the two of us worked with him first, mainly, as drilling contractors, drilling with cable tools, but eventually, building up a company that had production. RS: Right, so and you also told, so you got your bachelor’s degree from Pomona? GK: No, no, I got my bachelor’s from Pomona. I did not get my masters until I had worked in the field for RS: Okay, for a while. GK: More than 10 years. RS: Oh! Okay! GK: We were living, my wife, Eddy Krumme [Edwynne “Eddy” Rollstone Freeland Krumme 9/10/1923- 5/10/2011] was, we were living in Bristow. Our two boys were still in elementary school, but she wanted to move to Tulsa. She was not satisfied being there. So, I was being a push-over, and we moved to Tulsa, and I was forced for the next 50 years to commute to Bristow every year from Tulsa, but she went to school there. And the kids went to, we had two boys, went to school there in Tulsa. So, I really have lived in Tulsa since 1960. And, that’s when I started going to night school and got my masters of petroleum engineering at TU [University of Tulsa] going at night school for five years, and then when I finished that, I was worn out, so I rested for a year. But then I got interested and wanted a course in geology and got started again and spent the next six or eight years getting a PhD in geology, and I forgot what year I graduated, but nevertheless, I will say this, my dissertation for my PhD was deemed worth enough that the Oklahoma Geological Survey printed it as Bulletin #131. RS: That’s amazing! GK: Well, I was quite pleased, obviously, and always been proud of it. RS: That’s amazing. Well, you mentioned your wife, so let me, if you don’t mind, let me ask you about your first wife. When and where did you meet her? GK: We met when she was, probably, a sophomore and I was, well, just graduated, a freshman. I was, had just graduated as a junior. And, so, we went together all the time I was in high school, and even when I was at A& ; amp ; M [Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M], I came home for her, and I’ve never had another date with any girl. RS: And can you tell me what her full name is, please? GK: Her name is Edwynne Rollstone Krumme. We always called her Eddy. RS: Eddy. Okay, okay. And then I understand that your wife passed away from an illness? GK: She developed dementia in her last decade or two, decade or so, and died after dementia in 2011. RS: Okay, okay. And then can you tell me what your second wife’s name is? GK: Her name was Aldean Thompson Krumme [Grace “Aldean” Thompson Newcomb Krumme 11/19/1928-8/14/2021]. RS: Aldean Thompson Krumme. GK: She was Aldean Thompson and a Bristow girl who actually lived only two doors from us, but she was six years younger than I, and since I left at 16, I was not interested in a girl 10-years-old anyhow, besides, I already had a girlfriend. RS: Right. GK: We became acquainted only, really only, after, oh I would say, in the mid oughts, because her husband. No! We had contact, I won’t say became acquainted. We had contact because her husband was a chief geologist for Amaron Petroleum, and is in one of my classes. RS: Okay. GK: Night classes of petroleum engineering, and he had asked Aldean, do you know anybody from Bristow named George Krumme? And, of course, she did. But, at any rate, we did not really become acquainted until several decades, forty years later. RS: Okay, can you tell me how many children you have and what their names are, please? GK: Two sons. Eddy and I had David in 1948, and David William Krumme [2/1/1948-2/15/2013], and Robert Bryan Krumme in 1950. RS: Okay. GK: May 27th. RS: Okay. Can you tell me, do you have grandchildren? GK: I have four grandchildren, two living in, David’s two children live in Estes Park, Colorado, or the area and have no children. Robert’s two children, a boy and a girl, live with, also all three of them live in the south part of Jenks [Oklahoma], live in Jenks. RS: Okay. GK: Those two children, Jay, his name is John, but is called Jay, has a boy and a girl. And Carolyn has two daughters, so both families are close. RS: Okay, and then you had mentioned to me that you spent your entire career in the oil business. Was that just with family business with Krumme Oil? GK: Krumme Oil Company, yes. RS: Okay, okay. Well, now that we have a little background on you, I would like to talk to you a little bit about your involvement with Community Bank. I know this is the centennial year for them and you’ve been an integral part of the bank. What is your involvement with Community Bank? Can you tell us how you’re involved with them? GK: Well, my father being at Tuskegee and being, shall we say, mayor of Tuskegee, of course, with just a half a dozen houses, there was no formation. But, nevertheless, he was recognized as being a leader in the country, and since it was only eighteen miles from Bristow, for whatever reason, they invited him to be a member of the board when, at the same year that we bought the house in Bristow, so he became a member of the board in 1930. RS: Of Community Bank? GK: Even though he had owned no interest in it beyond just qualifying shares. RS: Okay. GK: And he stayed on the board because he started a business in 1936, and, eventually, quit the Tuskegee operation. For several years, he really operated out of Bristow and hired somebody to run the Tuskegee operation. He founded Krumme Truck and Implement Agency selling international trucks and McCormick-Deering farm implements for several years. But, as farming went out, he, eventually, got the Oldsmobile automobile agency, and, briefly, the Cadillac. Then, in 1940, the Chamber of Commerce wanted to replace cotton, because cotton was going out completely as a cash crop, and they enticed him to build, move a peanut shelling operation. RS: Okay. GK: He bought an expiring one that was in southern Oklahoma and built a peanut operation shelling. And my sister’s husband, Rachel’s husband, managed it, so he was involved in numerous things while this peanut operation was still going on is when he began going into the oil business. And, so, he was involved in numerous things, and that’s why, he had begun to buy operate, oil operate oil properties in ’42 or three or four. I don’t remember when. So, by the we came, Harlan and I came back, Harlan came back in ’46. I came back in ’47. He already had the nucleus of an oil business. RS: Right. GK: Now that’s the history that covers several things, I think. RS: Right. And, so, basically it was because of your dad that you got into the Community Bank? GK: And, when dad died in ’75, Harlan and I, since we were well-known businessmen, alternated being on the board. RS: Oh, okay. GK: Only about three years after dad died, the Foster brothers wanted to sell the bank, and there were several of us on the board who were children, sons of previous board members. Roger Collins was on the board. David Loeffler [10/20/1920-8/10/1986] was on the board. And Tom McAdams [4/6/1919-3/6/1991], all four of our fathers, had been on the board. And we decided to buy the bank. I think the year was 1978 is my guess. RS: Okay. GK: At any rate, we did join together and buy the banks. And without going into all the details, the subsequent presidents of the bank that we hired were aggressive enough that we bought two banks. One at Anadarko [Oklahoma] and one at Hugo [Oklahoma], so we had the ownership of three banks. One of the banks, the one at Anadarko had a serious loss, and we did have problems working the banks, but Community Bank, originally, of course, was Community State. It was formed in 1924 from a bankruptcy of a previous bank, First State Bank in ’24, and the city put together enough investors, local investors in Bristow, that it was called Community State Bank. All of those, eventually, sold out to a single person later, and it was, eventually, owned by the Foster brothers. RS: Well, can I ask, I’m glad you talked about that, because whenever I was doing research, I know that I read about…it was kind of hard to understand, and I was hoping you could clarify it for me. There was First State Bank, but then was there a Bristow National Bank? GK: Only a few months before First State Bank went under, it had merged, it had absorbed Bristow National Bank. RS: Oh, okay. GK: Bristow, at that time, had four banks, First National and American National at that time, at the intersection of Seventh Street. The other two banks, First State, was also at that corner in the southeast corner of that, so there were three banks at Seventh and Main. Bristow National was where Community is now, right on the corner, though. RS: Okay. GK: And it had a nice building. And when First State bought Bristow National, they elected to move to Bristow National’s location. But they did not last six months before they went under. The farm economy throughout the 20’s had suffered low prices and many, many banks, particularly in the south and Midwest, small country banks, went under, and so First National was not unique, nor Bristow National. It was, undoubtedly, due to the weak farm economy. But, as I say, what was the formation of Community Bank was quite unusual for the city itself to raise enough investors to justify buying the bank. And it did it as quite successful. It was a number of years before it was, eventually, bought by one of the owners instead of all of them. It, eventually, was owned by the two Foster brothers, and Arthur Foster [12/15/1912-7/22/1998] was running the bank when we bought it. RS: So, what lessons were learned from the other banks failures which lead to the successful venture of Community State Bank, would you say? GK: It was not only the good management of the bank, but also the bank, Community Bank was formed in 1924 and the Depression of 1929, which was October, generally, recognized as the beginning of the Depression, but for the next few years, bank failures were nationwide, actually, worldwide, because of the Great Depression was spread to Europe, as well as, the United States. Many banks went under. I suspect, that American National might have been in danger, although it never went under, but at that time, Albert C. Kelly [Albert Charles Kelly 12/28/1922-1/3/1977], old Albert, ended up owning virtually all of American National, because Albert’s farm had been, oil had been discovered and there were twelve wells, at least, drilled on Albert’s land. His son, young Albert, told me that his father told him that his income was $1000 a day. So, he had resources enough, so that my guess is, that he bought a troubled bank but had enough resources to tough it out, because American National did not go over. RS: To keep it going. GK: And Community State was able on its own to survive because, apparently, they were probably more cautious, shall we say, in their lending. At least, they were never threatened with receivership. Of course, in ’33, 1933 when President Roosevelt declared a bank holiday nationwide, many governors had declared bank holidays in ’33 because things got so desperate, and it became universal, shall we say, and even Governor Murray had declared bank holiday before the national holiday. But President Roosevelt declared a national holiday, and began investigating all the banks to determine which one could survive, and after only a few weeks, both banks in Bristow were cleared and opened back from a holiday. In the meantime, there was no bank available in Bristow, and the Chamber of Commerce, made what was called scrip, which was used in place of money RS: I read about that. GK: Which was actually paper money that was guaranteed by the Chamber of Commerce, and for a couple of weeks, it was circulated as money to be used as money because the banks were not available. RS: I, actually, read about that. So, is there an actual story of how Community Bank was named? GK: Only because the community went together. It was a community effort. RS: Okay, okay. And, so, it was funded by multiple GK: Local investors. RS: Okay, okay. Well, I read that the Bristow News Record sang the bank’s praises by reporting, and I quote, “The record is one that officials can justly be proud of as it is without parallel in the history of banking in this state. Community State Bank, a community project formed in the dark days when Bristow citizens had visions of losing their entire savings, is another success added to the list of a successful community.” So, what do you feel has made Community Bank successful all these years? GK: Apparently, good management and being careful about making loans. Banks go under because of failed loans. It’s obvious, a long throughout the years, the management of Community Bank has been adequate enough so that they are never in any dangers, and certainly, have not been since I’ve been familiar with the bank. RS: Right. Well, I was going to ask how you thought, like a new bank survived the Great Depression, but I’m guessing it’s kind of the same answer that they were cautious in their loans and investments. GK: Yes, I would say that. RS: Okay. And if the Great Depression wasn’t hard enough, that also transitioned into the Dust Bowl time period. What was life like for families and businesses during that time period of the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl era? GK: Bristow claimed to have about 12,000 at one time. But by the time the Depression was over, it was down to about 3,000 or so. Now, I’m not sure about that. It might have been 4,000, but at any rate, it has maintained about 4,000 ever since. The Depression caused empty houses throughout Bristow. As a matter of fact, the police department threatened many kids who would go in an empty home and randomly graffiti throughout, and it was a real problem you find in the newspapers, which I have read that so many empty homes here in town. People went to California. RS: Okay. GK: And, of course, we’ve rebuilt as far as the real estate is concerned. And, also, the schools, school children were coming, particularly the farm children, because they suffered even more than in Bristow city. RS: Right. GK: Came to school barefoot, and I know the rotary club, at least one year, bought 200 pairs for kids, not just farm kids, you understand. RS: Oh, wow! GK: Because, they actually had no shoes. RS: No shoes. GK: So, they could attend school. And the rotary, the Edison School, elementary school created a cafeteria, because kids didn’t enough money, pardon me, enough food at school, at home, but they did charge for those could afford it, 10 cents per lunch. And it was a lunch. The rotary [indecipherable] created at Washington Elementary School in the southeast part of town, they ran the cafeteria there and, likewise, because food was so scarce for the school children. RS: So scarce. GK: So, the Depression really did affect Bristow like it affected the entire country. RS: Yeah, what year did you take an active role with Community Bank, and can you tell us how that opportunity presented itself? GK: I think it was in 1978, well, no my first was because my father died in ’75, and I suspect that Robert, pardon me, I suspect that my older brother Harlan was put on the board first as the older brother, and I normally went on there in 1976 or seven or something like that. RS: Okay. GK: But it was due to my father’s death that I made the first associations. RS: So, what GK: Although, we had dealt with Community Bank for decades. RS: Right, right. What vision or goals did you have for the bank, and do you feel they have come to fruition? GK: Well, for it to be successful and continue to be a guiding part of Bristow, and I think it has. It has grown. Originally, Community, historically, was only about two thirds as big as American National Bank, because after 19, let’s see, the late 20’s there were only two banks. When Community Bank was formed, that made three banks, because two banks went under to make Community. RS: Right. GK: First National went under only four years later, so from that time on, there was only American National and Community State Bank. RS: When did Community lose the State in the name? GK: I think that occurred in about 1979. RS: And do you know the reason for that? GK: Yes. The president came, the new president that we had to hire because, obviously, the Foster’s had been president before, said it’s an awkward name to add state. Now, the original state law was that you had to have the word, if you were a state bank, you HAD to say that you were a state bank. And if you were a national bank, you had to say you were a national bank. That law was rescinded sometime far before that. I don’t actually know when, but that’s when the president who had just come said, there’s no reason to be named Community State Bank. And, more or less, dropped the name State. And, so we quite quickly, did. And I’m going to guess that was ’79. RS: Okay. How did your involvement with the bank change through the years, and, if any, what impact do you feel it’s had on your life? GK: Well, it’s, I will only say that my contact, aside from as a customer of the bank, but as a director, and while the group of us who had bought the bank stayed together until, gradually, the others sold. Eventually, my brother, Harlan and I ended up owning all the shares. And then in the mid 90’s, we divided our various assets, as far as the oil business was concerned and the banks, and Tom McAdams and I, first, I guess, owned most of it because the others had sold, and eventually, my son, Robert, began to manage the bank for Tom and me. He had experience. He has an MBA from Harvard, as a matter of fact, but anyhow, he came, although his previous business experience of several decades had not been either in the oil production nor in banking. With a background, he was able to adjust quickly. And he began to manage the banks, not as president, but just as general managing, overseeing. Eventually, as we had a holding company to operate the banks that we had bought, he became CEO of the holding company and really, I would say, the Krumme family has a very large ownership in, pardon me, in Sooner Southwest Bankshares, Inc., which owns the various banks that they have bought since then. Currently, Southwest, pardon me, Oklahoma Southwestern owns four banks. One in Bristow. One in Hugo. One in Heavener and on in Tulsa beginning a couple of years ago. RS: Okay, well, do you recall any particular very high or low times that you had with the bank that you can share with us? GK: Yes! The 80’s were hard for most banks because of the oil business had failures, and it affected Bristow because it had several customers who were in the oil business. RS: Right. GK: So, those were difficult days. And, of course, in ’08 there was a general recession, however, the bank was strong enough that, I don’t really think the bank had serious troubles in ’08, nor has it had since. RS: Right, right. Do you have a favorite memory regarding yourself and the bank that you would like to share, or maybe even like your earliest memory of the bank? GK: I really can’t say that I do, no. RS: You probably have a lot memories, don’t ya? GK: I do have a lot of memories, and it’s been a pleasant association. RS: So, has Community Bank helped with significant enhancements in Bristow, and if so, what are you most proud of? So, for instance, say like, city improvements, community programs, Route 66 development, like what are you most proud of that the bank has done? GK: Both banks in Bristow have been very civic-minded. RS: Okay. GK: I will say, and participated in MANY activities, and I’m very proud of the fact that Community has continued to do so. And I will say that one symptom of the appreciation that the bank, Community Bank has observed is that it has grown so that it is, almost, I don’t know whether it’s larger than the American National [Spirit Bank] or still slightly smaller, but it has grown to the point where it is an equal competitor rather than being the smaller of the two banks, which is a sign of both good management, but also of service to the community. RS: Well, I would agree with that. How does Community Bank manage to keep its institution local and keep it from being bought out or merged with other financial institutions? GK: That, actually, is a decision made by management of Sooner Southwest. And I’ve said the wrong word. Sooner Southwest is the name of the holding company, and I apologize for my poor memory. RS: That’s okay. No, that’s okay! GK: At any rate, Robert and others in management position have decided to maintain the banks as independent entities. All four banks owned by the holding company are independent. Whereas, most holding companies, rather, merge the banks under a common name, which is what, of course, American National did at the time, and had to adapt the name Spirit, because too many towns had American National Bank. And it could well be that Sooner Southwest will have to do the same thing. RS: So, what sets Community Bank apart from other banks, and how does that benefit the community? GK: Oh, I’m not sure that it sets it all that much apart. But I will say that I’m happy that it has a good record decades. RS: Well, I would like to say, I’m a customer of Community Bank, and I think it sets apart because you feel very welcomed. It’s a personal experience. You kind of get the red-carpet treatment when you go in, and other banks aren’t like that. GK: It’s the people who are running it. RS: Yes sir, yes sir. GK: They are service-minded and they’re friendly, and also, competent, so. RS: Yes, and genuinely friendly. GK: Well, I’m happy to have you say that, because that has been my observation, too. RS: Yes. GK: Welcoming to everybody. RS: Yes, you have wonderful employees there. Okay, well let’s talk about the future of Community Bank. This might be a hard one. Where do you see it in the next 100 years? GK: I have no idea about what will happen to anything in the next 100 years, but all I can do is anticipate that they will continue to be successful, and certainly, I hope so. RS: Continued success. I think so, too. Well, shifting from bank history, I’d like to ask you a couple of fun questions, and we are about to wrap this up, okay? What would you consider to be the most important invention during your life time? GK: Well, all I can say the thing that probably has turned the world upside down more than anything else, is electronics. The latest thing, which in communications and all that. Of course, both airplanes and cars had come in by the time that I was born. Radio was just really prospering when I was born. Bristow had one of the first radio stations in Oklahoma, which became, yes, which became KVOO and is now in Tulsa as a TV station. But radio was brand new but only when I was a child. Of course, TV came in, subsequently, and all of those had a great change, but I think the electronics has been more revolutionary than any of the others. RS: I would agree. I feel like someone of your age has seen the whole entire gamut of change in the time period. So, as someone that’s, you’re 101-years-old, correct? GK: Yes. RS: Okay, so as someone that’s 101, what type of wisdom would you like to share with us of your secret to a long and healthy life? GK: Oh. RS: Tell us your secrets! GK: I don’t really know that I have, would presume to give a secret. All I can say is, that I have tried to exhibit integrity, honesty and, I will say, continued attention to work. I believe I can say that. At any rate RS: You mean like having a purpose with your work? GK: Well, of course, really that’s a little presumptuous to say. I better leave it there to say without trying to express what it takes to be successful. I have been successful, but I’ll also say, that for everybody who has, luck plays some part. Being at the right place at the right time. RS: Right. GK: And being fortunate enough to make the right decisions. A lot of it is luck, but of course, that’s built on both hard work and integrity. RS: I agree with that. GK: And some reasonable amount of intelligence, too. RS: Right, right. So, just finally, I just want to know if you have any other wisdom you would like to share with us or anything that you feel that we haven’t covered today? Is there anything else you would like to share? GK: I think I’ve expressed more than I really needed to. RS: It’s been a wonderful interview. GK: Told a little more than I needed to, I realize. RS: No! Well, I just want to tell you thank you for sharing your time with us today. We really appreciate it. This will be an important part of our ongoing oral history, and then, obviously, for Community Bank as well, so we really appreciate you, Mr. Krumme. GK: Well, thank you very much. RS: Okay, thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0057_George_Krumme.xml OHP-0057_George_Krumme.xml
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Title
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George Krumme
Description
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Mr. Krumme shares about his life as a youngster growing up and going to school in the Okemah, Tuskegee and Bristow area. He talks about attending college and joining the service, as well as, returning home to start his career at Krumme Oil Company. He shares about his married and family life and talks, extensively, about his history with Community Bank and what his hopes are for the future of Community Bank.
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OHP-0057
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2024/05/20
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audio