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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/6b5b05524fe11f95e7b6bf8263e0b37a.jpg
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bunny Baker
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-01_Bunny_Baker.xml
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5.4 September 11, 2020 OHP-2020-01 Bunny Baker OHP-2020-01 0:00-92:19 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bunny Baker Georgia Smith MP3 1:|56(4)|93(3)|114(7)|146(8)|177(18)|204(4)|223(15)|249(2)|264(6)|289(8)|307(13)|320(15)|349(5)|372(15)|400(4)|416(4)|434(2)|449(6)|480(5)|502(4)|521(12)|537(15)|561(2)|586(1)|604(15)|631(6)|653(12)|681(3)|694(11)|721(4)|757(4)|771(11)|791(11)|832(4)|845(12)|876(2)|899(14)|926(13)|951(4)|971(4)|993(8)|1024(8)|1048(11)|1058(6)|1072(8)|1089(5)|1102(16)|1127(13)|1143(5)|1170(11)|1195(8)|1216(5)|1247(7)|1270(4)|1290(16)|1318(18)|1340(4)|1361(19)|1380(1)|1405(10)|1425(6)|1446(2)|1463(9)|1475(12)|1497(12)|1511(7)|1523(18)|1535(12)|1553(6)|1569(13)|1598(12)|1618(3)|1642(13)|1656(1)|1674(7)|1695(9)|1709(2)|1726(13)|1745(15)|1771(3)|1794(4)|1807(3)|1823(6)|1850(11)|1881(13)|1917(4)|1932(7)|1950(4)|1973(3)|2005(2)|2033(2)|2058(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-01 Bunny Baker.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family GS: Testing. There we go. Okay, Bunny, I’m going to sit this right here so it’ll pick you up good. Let me check the volume on it. Oh yeah, it’s up there. Okay. So. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is September 11, 2020 and I am sitting here with Bunny Baker at her house, who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name. BB: The real name? GS: The real name, Bunny. BB: Herpal (ph) A. Baker. GS: Okay. And where were you born? BB: Six miles south and a half mile west of Bristow Bobby Donald Dowdy ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bunny Baker ; Cathy Rae ; Cotton ; Donna Rae ; Dorothy Jean Dowdy ; Georgia Smith ; Herpal A. Baker ; Hester Mae Foster ; John Joseph Dowdy ; Junior Frank Dowdy ; Merle Baker ; Nonna Mae Dowdy ; Peanuts ; World War I https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26505461/hester-mae-dowdy Hester Mae Foster Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131963626/william-frank-dowdy William Frank Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102851520/dorothy-jean-sparkman Dorothy Jean Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131560745/john-j-dowdy John J Dowdy https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25859691/merle-tommy-baker Merle Tommy Baker 275 Early Childhood GS: Okay, now were’ gonna get into what it was like when you were a kid at home. Tell me about what life was like when you were a kid, as a young child living at your house BB: Well it was a riot GS: (Laughter) Of course it was BB: My mother was a disciplinary, disciplinary— GS: Disciplinarian BB: Yes, I can’t think of words. But she was a lady, but she would’ve been a wonderful children’s teacher GS: Uh-huh Missy Shepard ; Norma Mae ; riding the saw ; sorghum ; wood stove 796 Normal Means GS: Yeah you don’t want somebody riding the saw when you’re working. What are your—what are some of the normal means that you had? BB: Oh, we raised everything we ate, and mom was a wonderful cook and had on the small cabinets, she had—I don’t know. But we had cornbread and beans of course, but we had always had meat, we had always had pork and chicken. GS: Who did your butchering for ya? BB: We did it. GS: Did your mom butcher? BB: No, she ground the meat and the sausage. GS: But I mean as far as killing the animal and everything, who did that? barefoot ; basketball ; Buffalo Wallow ; cornmeal ; croquet ; grinder ; Hog Wallow ; hundred-pound sack of sugar ; moccasin ; overalls ; square dance club ; swinging parties ; Tibbons ; western heritage days 1403 Radios, TV, and Electricity GS: Do you remember the first time you heard a radio? BB: No not really GS: Did you have a radio in your house? BB: Yes, with a battery. And dad— they just listened to it for the news, except when Joe Louis (ph) was gonna fight and of course I loved anything tomboy, and so me and my dad would hear the Joe Louis fights and then mom led us— when the grand the Grand Ole Opry came into be on Saturday nights, she let us hear the Grand Ole Opry. Well then after that we would play Grand Ole Opry and that’s a hard hand taught me how to play the guitar when I was nine years old, and then we’d play like we were Grand Ole Opry and one by one I taught my brother John to play the guitar, and my sister she wasn’t very interested in it when I started playing the fiddle. Anyway, got them all together, and only two kids— two grandkids are following the music tradition and (Muffled noises) they’re good. Little John, he plays the fiddle really good. GS: Oh he does? Conasiny Tiger ; Grand Ole Opry ; Joe Louis ; Kerosene stove 1674 Early Family History GS: Okay you mentioned your grandfather earlier built the first school. Tell me about your grandparents. First tell me their names. BB: Well his name was Foster William, William— William Orange Foster (ph). He was from— shoot I can’t think of it. GS: That’s okay BB: But anyway, he and my grandmother were— my grandmother had lived up there when she was little, but they lived in Farmersville, Texas and they got married in Farmersville, Texas. My grandmother’s dad was in church and he picked her up in a buggy and they eloped. And then they wanted to come to Oklahoma, and they came in a covered wagon, and they stopped through Shawnee town, which no longer exists, but it was down somewhere near Shawnee. And he had a friend a mile west of Iron Post that ran— had a dairy, and the friend told him that he could work for him, so they lived in a dugout on the east side of their house till he could buy some land. And my grandfather bought— they had a, Indians had an auction and he bought land from the Indians and I can’t remember but it was, he didn’t pay much of anything, seemed like a dollar for ten acres [Indecipherable] Buffalo Wallow ; Farmersville, Texas ; Nettie Alice Foster ; Shawnee town ; William Orange Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26847106/nettie-a-foster Nettie Alice Foster 2010 School and Church GS: Oh. Okay, now we’re gonna— BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Now we’re gonna head off to school BB: Oh (Laughter) GS: Where did you go to school first? BB: Iron Post GS: Iron Post, and that was how many miles south of Bristow? BB: Would’ve been 7 miles south and a mile west. GS: Okay, who was your teacher? BB: Mrs. Howell (ph) 4H Club ; black school ; Bunny ; Duns cap ; Home Demonstration Club ; Iron Post ; Joe Isle ; Mrs. Bourget ; Mrs. Howell ; Pontiac ; Tibbons ; tin bucket ; white school 2561 Christmas GS: What were Christmases like as a child? BB: Oh, they were great! We didn’t have wrapping paper, we didn’t have money for it, you know. And we— seems like we got a dollar for— to buy with. But there’s a big joke there that if you can get jigsaw puzzles for a dollar, for 25cents, either 25cents or a nickel, I think it was 25cents, but there was all six of us to buy for, you know, and so we would— GS: I’s just checking making sure it’s still working, it is BB: We would buy our brothers Bob and John, they just hated jigsaw puzzles, but my sister and I we just loved to work them. So every Christmas we’d buy them a jigsaw puzzle, and well— to tell you what you wanted, you know. They, Tibbons, furnished a great big Christmas tree for the Iron Post school, and with the money we made off of putting on plays at Gypsy and Iron Post and whatever, they bought candy and they made they a sack for every family whose children went to school at Iron Post. It had an apple and an orange and package of gum and miscellaneous candy, and some nuts, it was real nice. GS: And it was one per family? Christmas ; jigsaw puzzles ; John Wayne ; Pie Suppers 2843 Medical Care GS: Okay we’re gonna skip now to medical care. BB: Uh-oh GS: What was medical care like when you were a kid? BB: Well there wasn’t any really. I broke my collarbone and didn’t go to the doctor, you can feel it. GS: Oh my word BB: When I was 19, I went to the doctor with the flu and he said “When did you break your collarbone?’ well I knew when I broke it but I didn’t tell him about it. ‘Ol Dr. King, his mother and my mother— my grandmother were good friends and he took care of us and every fall, he would mix up liniments and it was just his own secret and bring it out and it’d be a quart in a big bottle and mom called it horse liniments. That boy would cure your colds and whatever. GG: Wow BB: And he would bring his mother and leave her at my grandmother’s house so they could tear all the neighbors apart black powder ; Dr. King ; liniments ; medical care 3025 Businesses GS: Okay let’s skip now to Bristow, and we’re still in early childhood here, so what was Bristow like in your early childhood? Did you get to come to Bristow often? BB: We came on Saturdays a lot ‘cus we brought stuff— vegetables and stuff to the poor farm, and— GS: Did you sell them to the poor farm or give them to the poor far? BB: No we just gave them to the poor farm. But I know where the, it’s the dollar store on main street, what’s the name of that store? GS: Dollar General BB: Yeah Dollar General. Well around the corner, there was a bar and we would try to park across the street because every night there’d be a fight at the bar and they’d take it outside, you know. But we would sit in the car and watch the people go by or walk up and down the street and then we’d hope to see somebody we knew. dollar general ; dollar store ; feed sacks ; Hamburger King ; JC Pennys ; poor farm ; Strongs 3337 Jobs GS: What was your first job Bunny? BB: Piggly Wiggly Grocery store GS: Where was it? BB: It was on the west side of main street down from, it was in the block south of, can’t even think of what’s there now, sixth street or something. You know where the bank was. GS: Spirit or Community? BB: First National GS: Okay BB: On the corner of main street, it was down south of there. That was during my junior and senior year, and then I went on to work with Maxine Jenkins at Lions Café as a soda jerk. GS: Now just for generations that have never heard of soda jerk, what was a soda jerk? I know but let’s hear it explained candy building ; Community Bank ; First National Bank ; Johnny Horainy ; Lions Cafe ; Maxine Jenkins ; Piggly Wiggly Grocery Store ; soda jerk ; Spirit Bank ; typist ; Wanda Sanders 3733 Marriage and Western Heritage Days GS: Okay I wanna know about when you met Merle BB: I knew him all my life, I guess. They played, you know, music for the Pie Suppers and everything, so we’d go in and hear them GS: Was he from the Iron Post area also? BB: No he was from down by— well at first he was over on the east of Talaha (ph) [Indecipherable] GS: Okay BB: And then they moved to south of town, I think he went to school at Valentine maybe GS: Okay BB: And, but he— I don’t know they might have had a bus running from Gypsy down there, but I never knew him until he was, you know, he was in school at Gypsy. GS: So did he ask you out on a first date? Bunny ; chestcord ; Doy Cochran ; Francis Wrestler ; Gingham Dress ; Government Assistant Work Programs ; great depression ; J& ; J Cafe ; Kenneth Mann ; Mason Family ; Merle Tommy Baker ; Mr. Poston ; Pie Suppers ; Talaha ; Tibbons ; Western Heritage Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25859691/merle-tommy-baker Merle Tommy Baker 4810 Politics and Military Service GS: Do you remember any of the— I know you said none of your family worked for the WPA, but do you remember coming into Bristow when they maybe built the amphitheater or when Mrs. Roosevelt came and dedicated it in the building? BB: Well mom would bring us to town like there was somebody, Landon I think it was, ran for president. He’d come on the train and talk on the back of the train, and she would bring us to town to see those people, she was always very good with— GS: Political binded BB: Yeah political binded. But I don’t remember that GS: Okay, okay. BB: I might’ve come, but I don’t remember it. GS: She was [Indecipherable]. Was she involved in politics in any other way? BB: Well, I don’t know if she was always— she, there was a mayor Brong (ph). Anyway, she always came to their meetings, you know, she was always interested in the government, whatever was going on so I guess she was interested in politics. Alfred Dobson ; amphitheater ; Japanese ; marines ; Mayor Brong ; Mrs. Roosevelt ; Pearl Harbor ; Ration Book ; Tulsa World ; WASP ; womens sufferage ; World War II ; WPA ; WWII 5148 Biggest Impacts and Problems Today GS: That’s wonderful. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your lifetime? BB: Wow so many GS: Yes, there are. There’s so many that have impacted life, it would be hard to pick just a few favorite. BB: Yeah, I guess most important would be the computers. But I don’t have one, don’t want one. I’ve gone this long, long time without one, don’t need one. GS: What event would you say influence the world the most during your lifetime? Event or events? BB: I would say World War II GS: Did you— were you aware during WWII of what Hitler was doing? BB: Yes, I kept up with the news. Mom insisted on a daily newspaper, so. GS: Oh, this is a loaded question ; how different is the world today than it was when you were a child? Bunny ; C. C. Wilson ; Caroline Webb ; CPA ; Hitler ; Johnny Simmons ; reporter ; WWII In this 2020 interview, Bunny Baker shares her experiences growing up in Bristow. She discusses family history, western heritage days, and shares many fun stories from her childhood through young adult life. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Bunny Baker (BB) Other Persons: Date of Interview: September 11, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Testing. There we go. Okay, Bunny, I' ; m going to sit this right here so it' ; ll pick you up good. Let me check the volume on it. Oh yeah, it' ; s up there. Okay. So. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is September 11, 2020 and I am sitting here with Bunny Baker at her house, who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name. BB: The real name? GS: The real name, Bunny. BB: Herpal (ph) A. Baker. GS: Okay. And where were you born? BB: Six miles south and a half mile west of Bristow. [muffled sounds] GS: Sit that right there so it' ; ll get ya. Don' ; t touch anything on it, just--we' ; ll just let it sit right there, so. BB: Okay. GS: Yeah, ' ; cause I want to make sure it' ; s still recording. Yeah. So we' ; ll just sit it right there, and it' ; ll pick it up. It' ; s not gonna fall, I don' ; t think. I think you might' ; ve just told me, but I was paying attention to the recorder. Where were you born? BB: Six miles south and one mile west of Bristow. GS: In the family home? BB: Yes. GS: And what was your date of birth? BB: May the twenty-third, 1926. GS: Aww, how wonderful. What were your parents' ; names? We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. BB: Hester Mae Foster. GS: Hester Mae Foster. And when were your parents married? BB: I don' ; t remember. GS: That' ; s okay. Do you know where they were married? BB: In--no, I don' ; t. GS: Okay, that' ; s alright too. Do you know--were they all, were they raised, born in this area or did they move in to this area? BB: They were born in this area. GS: Okay, alright. How many children did your parents have? BB: Six. GS: And what were your siblings' ; names? BB: Nonna (ph) Mae (ph)--you want the full name? Was Dowdy. Nonna (ph) Mae (ph) Dowdy. Junior Frank Dowdy. Herpal (ph) A. Baker. Dorothy Jean Bak--Baker. Oh, not Baker. GS: Dowdy. BB: Dowdy. And John Joseph Dowdy. And Bobby Donald Dowdy. GS: Okay. What work did your father do for a living? BB: He was a ninety-eight percent disabled World War I veteran. Before that, he was a barber. And then he was always in and out of the hospital. The rest of his life he was disabled. GS: Bless his heart. What about your mother? Did she work out at the home? BB: No, she worked in the home for everybody that came by. GS: So how did they get by if your dad-- BB: Well she drew a small oil check, her mother had five oil wells on her land, and she drew it. Of course you know, that oil. GS: ' ; Cause the government didn' ; t have disability back then, did they? BB: No no no, no. GS: Did he farm or anything? BB: Yeah we farmed. GS: Did you sell any of the produce? BB: Yes GS: At a farmer' ; s market or a little bench alongside the road or what? BB: No, just brought it to town. GS: What were some of the crops you sold? BB: Oh, peanuts, cotton, cotton first, then peanuts, and--so much of it like corn we used to grow on the farm GS: Oh BB: But we sold the peanuts and the cotton. GS: Okay. What was your spouse' ; s name? BB: Merle Baker (ph) GS: And what was the date you got married? BB: June the thirtieth, 1945 GS: Oh, right after the war or during the war? BB: Right after GS: Right after. How many children did you have? BB: None. GS: But you did adopt some? BB: Yes GS: What are their names? BB: Cathy Rae (ph) and Donna Rae (ph) GS: Okay, now were' ; gonna get into what it was like when you were a kid at home. Tell me about what life was like when you were a kid, as a young child living at your house BB: Well it was a riot GS: (Laughter) Of course it was BB: My mother was a disciplinary, disciplinary-- GS: Disciplinarian BB: Yes, I can' ; t think of words. But she was a lady, but she would' ; ve been a wonderful children' ; s teacher GS: Uh-huh BB: She punished you in such funny ways. She thought of things like--she said that on a moonlit night if you had been good enough, you could watch the fairies dancing on the east side of the house out on the lawn. Well, we had a bedroom with a window in the east side of the house. So every night when the moon shone, we' ; d gather at that window to look for fairies. GS: Oh how wonderful! BB: But we had to be good enough, if you weren' ; t good enough you couldn' ; t see the fairies. So every night after we couldn' ; t see the moon when we were younger, we' ; d swear we was gonna be better. And then she had another one if we got into trouble, she made us play on opposite sides of the house, that way you didn' ; t have anybody to play with. Oh she was something else, and she--we asked her where calves came from, and she said the old cows found them in the woods. Well we figured if a cow could find a calf we sure could. And that was her way, I now know, of getting us out of her hair. But we would spend hours out in the woods looking for calves. GS: It sounds like she was a pretty smart lady! BB: Yes, she was GS: Besides thinking outside the box BB: Yeah, yeah she' ; s-- GS: Very clever! BB: She had it all going, but if you didn' ; t behave you was in trouble. We found out early that she could run faster than we could then you got a whoopin' ; for running. And we were punished with peach tree limbs and we had to get our own switches, they were switches, but if you got one too big then you got--you know, on purpose, you got two switches instead of one. And girls wore dresses and it stung like crazy. You didn' ; t ask for that very much. GS: Oh I' ; m sure not, I' ; m sure not. Who was the oldest child in your family? BB: Norma Mae [Inaudible] GS: And where did you fall in there, Bunny? BB: In the middle, naturally. GS: In the middle, of course. So what are some of the things--chores that you had to do when you were a kid? BB: Well milk, feed the hogs, feed the chickens, feed the cows, anything outside, I worked outside with my big brother ' ; cause dad wasn' ; t there. He' ; s--I didn' ; t remember my dad until I was probably a young teenager because he was in the Hospital, [Indecipherable] hospital, and then [Indecipherable] for years GS: Oh, how sad. BB: And then as he' ; d go back, he' ; d--he could just, later he could come home maybe for a week or two, but then he' ; d have to go back. But he suffered from the [Indecipherable] GS: Aw, I' ; m so sorry. That' ; s sad Bunny. BB: Yeah, like he couldn' ; t--if he was home, we had to cool our own lamps, and somebody had to fill the lamp every evening because the bowl would hold enough cooler oil for the night, but if he woke up during the night and it was dark, he would see Germans and stuff. GS: Aw, we just don' ; t know how thankful we are to-- BB: Boy that' ; s right GS: Not have had to go through that. What kind of house did you live in? BB: Well it was just a wooden house, it had three rooms then dad built on a small room for [Indecipherable] because--so she could have a room to herself. So it was, I guess a four room house. GS: And this was still six miles south? BB: Right. GS: Did the kids have to share beds? BB: Oh yeah, three to a bed (Laughter) GS: What were your favorite toys as a child? BB: I don' ; t know, we played house we just did everything. GS: Did you make most of your toys or did you have store bought toys or? BB: We didn' ; t have many store bought toys. We played house, like we played house with broken dishes, pieces of broken dishes. And we played hopscotch, my brother had a pocket knife and you' ; d throw that--we played marbles, tin can shinny, and you saved your--we very seldom got ahold of a tin can, but when you did you saved it to play hockey with. Then you' ; d play hockey with the tin can and you' ; ve got sticks out in the woods to hit it with. GS: How fun! Out in the pasture probably BB: Yeah GS: Okay you' ; ve kinda already told me this, but if--case it triggers anything else, it says " ; What role did your mother play in the home?" ; BB: Well she was the boss. GS: And she was pretty much everything. She was the provider wasn' ; t she? BB: She was everything GS: Cause with your dad being off in a hospital, she had to shoulder it all. Did she get any help from relatives? BB: Once in a while when she was--no from relatives, but we didn' ; t have any relative around there, but when she was pregnant, or just had a baby, she would hire Missy Shepard (ph), a black lady, who lived down at the depot and she would iron for mom till some of us got older, you know. And then Bill and I, my brother, we did ever except when it was harvest time, she would hire somebody to help us, you know. Well we didn' ; t--we made some molasses, Bill and I did all of that except that' ; s why John got attached to horses because we had to ride the horse turn the table, you know. GS: So did you grow your own sorghum? BB: Oh yes, and he used to love to ride the horses, he' ; s just about three years old, and that' ; s why he loved horses. But we bailed our own hay, we got people that had machines would loan them and they would loan us their hay bailer and it was scary because I put the hay in the trolley, whatever it was, and Bill put the blocks in, and you had to put enough hay in there for a block. And if you got caught in there, some people got damaged getting caught. And a horse turned that too and it just kept going, and you didn' ; t get your hand out in time you' ; re in big trouble. GS: Yeah that would be scary work. You had to stay on top of things and not goof off BB: Nope GS: What kind of stove did your mom cook on? BB: A big wood stove, wood cook stoves had a warming place on the right side and then--what' ; s the other one for? GS: Burners BB: Burners GS: Did you and your brothers have to take care of getting the wood for the stove? BB: Absolutely, we cut wood and we got and we got into more fights for accusing each other for riding the saw GS: (Laughter) Now what does it mean by ' ; riding the saw' ; ? BB: Well, he' ; s on one end it, you' ; re on the other. GS: Uh-huh BB: And if you don' ; t do your part ; the other guy has to do the part. GS: I see, I see. BB: You get kinda slow or lazy, you' ; d be riding the saw. GS: Yeah you don' ; t want somebody riding the saw when you' ; re working. What are your--what are some of the normal means that you had? BB: Oh, we raised everything we ate, and mom was a wonderful cook and had on the small cabinets, she had--I don' ; t know. But we had cornbread and beans of course, but we had always had meat, we had always had pork and chicken. GS: Who did your butchering for ya? BB: We did it. GS: Did your mom butcher? BB: No, she ground the meat and the sausage. GS: But I mean as far as killing the animal and everything, who did that? BB: Well usually a hard man, what you did you put the hog in a pen by himself to fatten him up before you get read to kill him. Somebody went and got a big sheet of tin, and then we fed him and when he had his head down, this guy would hit him in the head with a sledgehammer to kinda knock him out, and while he was not doing-- then somebody else jumped on his back and cut his throat, and then we let him bleed out and then put him on the sheet and took him to the house where people had already got their water in the-- boiling, wash the kettle, and dug a hole in the ground and buried half of the barrel, you put the water in the barrel and just get all the hair off of it. And you know, I never could-- and then you start scraping the hair off of it and pull it out of the barrel and scrape the hair off of him--but I never could do the head because those eyes would be looking at you weird GS: Oh yeah that' ; d be hard BB: I couldn' ; t do the head GS: That would sure be hard. Okay now you mentioned before we started the interview about a hog wallow, what is a hog wallow? BB: No just a wallow GS: Oh, just a wallow. BB: Yeah GS: Okay, what' ; s a wallow? BB: It' ; s a buffalo wallow. GS: Okay BB: There' ; s one, I guess it' ; s still out there, but when I was a kid, it was on the west side of the barn out in the pasture. And it was completely-- absolutely round, and it was-- I don' ; t know how big, big enough for a buffalo. And it wasn' ; t but about maybe four inches or maybe six inches deep, it wasn' ; t very deep at all. But the bottom of it was coal black, and nothing grew in it, not one weed grew in it. GS: Wow BB: And so I asked my grandmother about it, and she said that black was the oil off of buffalo hides where they would rub [Inaudible] GS: Oh my goodness, really? BB: Yeah, and when I was a teenager, I went over there, might have been after I was married, but anyway I was over and there were a few springs of grass growing through it for the first time, and I don' ; t know what it looks like now but like I said, about two weeks later I thought about writing that for an article in the paper about two-- and I thought well nobody will believe it ' ; cause nobody heard of that-- of a buffalo wallow. And so I saw a buffalo heard on the news and it showed this hog, this-- buffalo and a hog and a buffalo wallow and it was doing just like my grandmother said it was even rubbing its heads and just rubbing and turnin' ; over and just rubbing all of its body in that. GS: I' ; ve never heard of such a thing, that' ; s really interesting BB: Well I saw it so-- but I believe my grandmother saw it, you know, she saw a bunch of those. And-- but I didn' ; t figure anybody else would believe it, and I couldn' ; t prove anything so. GS: But there it was in a movie so evidently other people have seen it BB: [Inaudible] GS: Did you shop for groceries? You said most of the food you grew on your own farm, but I' ; m sure there' ; s some stuff that you bought. BB: In the fall mom bought a hundred-pound sack of sugar and that had to last us all winter GS: Wow BB: And to the next summer, ' ; bout a year I guess. And when we ran out of [Indecipherable], well we made our own meal when we needed meal dad would, when he was home, he wasn' ; t-- me and my brother would fix mom up with a sack of corn, we' ; d grind out corn and then send it in and they' ; d grind it into cornmeal GS: And you had a grinder to do that with? BB: Yeah GS: Did you have to turn it manually or with a horse or? BB: Yeah, no no no. GS: Manually? BB: It was- you put your corn in your thing like this and-- GS: So it was a small handheld type grinder BB: Yeah not-- not small but it was a grinder. GS: Okay, okay. And you' ; ve told me mostly about daily chores I think. So-- and you' ; ve owned livestock and you did your butchering so we got that. What kind of clothes did you wear? BB: Well, we got a new dress for Easter, and mom made the rest of our clothes. And, ' ; course I wore-- my brother would outgrow his overalls so I' ; d take them GS: Yeah BB: ' ; Cus I was always outside all the time, and-- GS: Were you a tomboy Bunny? BB: I was a boy GS: (Laughter) BB: I just filled the place of a boy GS: Uh-huh BB: And I was never in the house except the evening-- or asleep GS: What about your sister, did she do housework or outside work? BB: No, my oldest sister, she was such a lady and one-time mom told us she thought she was-- I was already milking, I started milking I think like six or seven years old, and she told us she-- maybe you should go to the barn and help you know, and so she took off for the barn, she came back to the house crying, and mom asked her what was wrong and she said " ; That old cow looked at me" ; GS: (Laughter) BB: I never saw her anywhere near the barn after that. GS: I love that, what about shoes? Did you wear shoes all the time or did you go barefoot a lot? BB: We went barefoot a lot, but we-- we bought shoes in the fall for school, but if you outgrew ' ; em you' ; re in trouble. And then by high school, I had some kind of moccasin type, and I know my heels hung out about that far out of the back ' ; cause I, you know, outgrown them GS: Yup, yeah. And that probably wasn' ; t unusual, you probably didn' ; t stick out that way BB: Oh everybody else was- GS: Was in the same boat, weren' ; t they? BB: Yeah GS: What about friends? Who did you play with? BB: Oh, uh Tibbons had an oil lease about half a mile from our house, half a mile south. And my grandfather built the first tool house a mile south of iron post, and it was of logs and it burned down, ' ; course they burned wood for heat. And then they built one of boards, and then when Tibbons got this oil, they built a brick schoolhouse down there, and they had a croquet court on this lease, it was sixteen families there at one time. GS: Oh my. BB: And they had a flaming torch all the time, and so we kids would go over there and play until after it got dark, went and got dark, you know. But I just had plenty of things to play with. GS: What were some of your favorite games that y' ; all played? I think you kinda talked to me about that earlier already. BB: Oh, well when I got to be in the seventh-- eighth grade or something, they had-- they called it swinging parties, and it was really square dancing but we didn' ; t know it GS: Oh okay! BB: But you-- everybody sang the songs and it was really square dancing, but I didn' ; t realize that until after I was married and joined the square dance club. But it was swinging parties and we played those, and we played croquet and basketball and-- GS: Did you join the square dance club that was in Bristow? BB: Yeah GS: What years were you in that? BB: Oh it was the year of the first western heritage days, and I don' ; t remember when that was GS: 50' ; s or 60' ; s? BB: No, it wasn' ; t in the 60' ; s I think. I' ; d say in the 40' ; s GS: Oh really? BB: Well seems like I was-- I don' ; t know how old I' ; d be. GS: That' ; s okay, that' ; s okay. Let' ; s see. BB: With the round up club they had, you know, square dancing. After the rodeos and all GS: Oh how fun BB: Yeah, we had a lot of fun GS: Do you remember the first time you heard a radio? BB: No not really GS: Did you have a radio in your house? BB: Yes, with a battery. And dad-- they just listened to it for the news, except when Joe Louis (ph) was gonna fight and of course I loved anything tomboy, and so me and my dad would hear the Joe Louis fights and then mom led us-- when the grand the Grand Ole Opry came into be on Saturday nights, she let us hear the Grand Ole Opry. Well then after that we would play Grand Ole Opry and that' ; s a hard hand taught me how to play the guitar when I was nine years old, and then we' ; d play like we were Grand Ole Opry and one by one I taught my brother John to play the guitar, and my sister she wasn' ; t very interested in it when I started playing the fiddle. Anyway, got them all together, and only two kids-- two grandkids are following the music tradition and (Muffled noises) they' ; re good. Little John, he plays the fiddle really good. GS: Oh he does? BB: And little Joe, Bobby' ; s boy, he plays the guitar and he plays with a band occasionally GS: Well how wonderful. And so you play? BB: Yeah I learned to play everything. And I keep thinking I' ; ll take time to learn to play the piano, that' ; s all I think I could handle. Playing guitar and all that you' ; ve got to build calluses on your hand GS: I' ; ve tried, it' ; s not pleasant BB: No it takes time to build that. Well this finger used to be, it' ; s still kind of lopsided GS: Yeah BB: Because of a callus on it. But I' ; ve still got all kinds of musical instruments in there, but what I' ; m gonna do is [Indecipherable]. But I' ; d love to have time to-- GS: Mess with them BB: At least play the piano better [Inaudible] GS: What about a TV, do you remember the first TV you saw? BB: Not really GS: Do you remember the first TV you watched in the house when your family got a TV or when you got a TV? BB: My family never had a TV, they didn' ; t even have running water or electricity or anything else. Yeah, it was accurate I guess, we built our house without a television, so GS: So you say you didn' ; t have running water, did you have a well and you had to haul the water or did you have a pump outside that you hauled it from? BB: We had a well with a bucket, and that was my job to draw the wash water every Monday GS: Oh my! BB: And I had a twenty-one-inch waist, and I think that' ; s why because pulling on that rope, you know. GS: Yup BB: But we had that for a long time, then we got a pump. And we-- I don' ; t know when we got, I don' ; t remember when we got electricity. Mom finally got a kerosene stove GS: Now when I did another interview of the Indian lady, Conasiny (ph) Tiger BB: [Indecipherable] that' ; s what we called her GS: Okay, which means grandmother BB: Mhm GS: She said that when I interviewed about Conasiny (ph), she said that her grandmother was the first to have electricity taken out there so that might be maybe when your family got electricity. BB: It was after we were married GS: Yeah, ok. BB: Yeah I' ; ll tell you something about Conasiny (ph), my mother went to school with her children GS: Okay! BB: And she' ; s-- I won' ; t tell you that because [Inaudible] but anyway, Bill in 44' ; died. He was some kind of a chief I guess, I can' ; t remember. But they just lived through the woods from us, and they celebrated his funeral a week, and all night every night beating the drums and yelling and stuff, and us kids were scared stiff. GS: ' ; Cus you had never heard that before, had you? BB: Well no you could hear them through the woods and we could-- GS: Your imaginations ran wild, didn' ; t they? BB: Yeah, it was wild. GS: Okay you mentioned your grandfather earlier built the first school. Tell me about your grandparents. First tell me their names. BB: Well his name was Foster William, William-- William Orange Foster (ph). He was from-- shoot I can' ; t think of it. GS: That' ; s okay BB: But anyway, he and my grandmother were-- my grandmother had lived up there when she was little, but they lived in Farmersville, Texas and they got married in Farmersville, Texas. My grandmother' ; s dad was in church and he picked her up in a buggy and they eloped. And then they wanted to come to Oklahoma, and they came in a covered wagon, and they stopped through Shawnee town, which no longer exists, but it was down somewhere near Shawnee. And he had a friend a mile west of Iron Post that ran-- had a dairy, and the friend told him that he could work for him, so they lived in a dugout on the east side of their house till he could buy some land. And my grandfather bought-- they had a, Indians had an auction and he bought land from the Indians and I can' ; t remember but it was, he didn' ; t pay much of anything, seemed like a dollar for ten acres [Indecipherable] GS: Wow BB: Bought forty-five, a forty acres we added on the five acres. And that was next to the [Indecipherable] place, and-- GS: Who is Conasiny Tiger, right? BB: Yeah, but we always called her that, you know GS: Uh-huh BB: And that-- it connected her land and that' ; s where my grandmother got the five oil wells. GS: Woah, okay BB: Yeah [Indecipherable] was the richest person in the country GS: Yeah, that' ; s what I' ; ve heard. So what was your grandmothers full name with her maiden name, if you know. BB: Yeah it was Nettie Alice Foster GS: Okay, do you know what her maiden name was? BB: Foster GS: Well she married a Foster BB: Yeah GS: But her maiden name was Foster too? BB: Yes GS: Okay. Do you have any memory of your great grandparents? BB: No GS: Yeah BB: My grandmother would be 145 or 46 years old, she was-- GS: Long time ago BB: Yeah GS: Who' ; s the oldest person in your family that you can remember from when you were a little kid? BB: My grandmother Foster GS: Okay, and do you have any special memories about your grandmother Foster that we haven' ; t mentioned already? BB: Oh yeah, well I would do my chores, she-- her husband, she married a man older than her, he was-- died at 42 I think. And she lived by herself out there half a mile east of us, and I would do my chores of a night and eat my supper and then I' ; d walk to her house a half a mile and spent the night with her, and then walked back the next morning, do my chores then go to school, you know. But I was with her so much and she' ; s the one that' ; s told me so many tales about the Buffalo wallow and all this-and-that and she had a real interesting life. GS: Do you remember how-- how so it was interesting? I mean-- BB: Well yeah, she loved-- that' ; s where I got my love of flowers I guess because she didn' ; t allow a weed to grow in her entire yard, it was rows of flowers GS: Wow BB: And you weren' ; t allowed to play in her yard, you could play in the driveway, that was the only place you could play. But we would work outside and feed the chickens and do chores and everything and then in the evening when it was still clear outside, she always had a quilt out and she taught me to quilt when I was just a kid. GS: Wonderful! BB: And we would quilt till the night, and I' ; ve got one of her quilts she gave me for a wedding gift, and her son-- abacko (ph)-- tobacco used to come in little bags and men had to roll their own cigarettes GS: Uh-huh BB: And her son smoked cigarettes. She saved those little tobacco sacks and she washed them and then she dyed them and she made quilts out of them GS: Well how wonderful! BB: And I' ; ve got a quilt that she gave me for my-- I don' ; t know how old it was when she gave it to me for my wedding gift, but it' ; s made out of pink and something-- anyways got pink squares. She cut the sacks into patterns, you know, and then we would save our best cleanest cotton for her to-- to pad her quilts with. So it' ; s padded with homemade cotton GS: Wow BB: And I' ; ve still got it. GS: Oh, that is so wonderful! So special! BB: I' ; m thinking of giving it to the museum GS: Oh isn' ; t there a-- I mean as much as we would love to have it, isn' ; t there a family member that it should go to? BB: No I' ; m the only one that sews so-- GS: Oh. Okay, now we' ; re gonna-- BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Now we' ; re gonna head off to school BB: Oh (Laughter) GS: Where did you go to school first? BB: Iron Post GS: Iron Post, and that was how many miles south of Bristow? BB: Would' ; ve been 7 miles south and a mile west. GS: Okay, who was your teacher? BB: Mrs. Howell (ph) GS: And did you go to first grade there and all through high school? BB: No through the 8th grade, and that' ; s as far as it went. But I' ; ll tell you about my first day in school. Mrs. Howell is so sweet, and you came in the door and she would greet you and then assign you a seat, and of course we knew better than to, you know, get out of line GS: Oh yeah BB: But there was a boy, I won' ; t tell you his name because he' ; s got kin folks living here. But he was-- his family was a real rough family, and the boys had two older brothers and they just came to school to fight and cause trouble. Well he strolled in one morning whistling, you didn' ; t whistle then or talk out loud period without permission. He strolled in whistling and Mrs. Howell asked him, says " ; Good morning Bobby" ; she says " ; How are you this morning?" ; " ; Fine" ; she says " ; Bobby do you know your ABC' ; s?" ; he says " ; Hell no, how you expect me to know em, I just now got here" ; GS: Ohh! BB: And he later became a mayor of some little town in California GS: (Laughter) Oh, that' ; s a good story. BB: Scared me to death, I thought ' ; man he' ; s gonna get it' ; GS: Did he get it? BB: No, he didn' ; t. That was the first day of school, she was good to everybody I guess GS: Did-- did all the different ages go to school in the same room-- BB: No GS: Or were there grade levels? BB: There was a first and second graders and-- I think it was first, second, and third. Anyway, fourth and fifth and a sixth, seventh, and eighth. GS: Okay, so they did have them separated a little bit by levels BB: Yeah, three different rooms [Inaudible] GS: Okay BB: And we-- when before school started, everybody gathered out in front of the school house on a wall sort of, and we saluted the flag and we had the Lord' ; s prayer GS: How wonderful BB: And uh-- GS: That' ; s good. How many hours did you go to school? BB: I think it was from 9 -- 4 GS: Ooh, okay. And did you walk there or? BB: No we walked unless it was raining and then mom would take us. GS: And how-- what would she take you in? BB: The government gave the veterans-- the WWI veterans a bonus, and it was either six or eight hundred dollars, and they bought a new Pontiac, which was-- GS: Oh how wonderful! BB: [Indecipherable] GS: Was that a wooden building or brick or-- what kind of building was it? BB: It was brick GS: Okay, did they have any clubs or organizations or anything there? It' ; s awfully small BB: Yeah, we had 4H club GS: Okay BB: And the women had a Home Demonstration Club I think they called it GS: Did you go to any of those? BB: To the 4H club GS: I figured that, okay. Did they use the school for anything else like church or anything? BB: We had Sun-- my mom and Mrs. Bourget had Sunday School every Sunday, but we didn' ; t have church often, just when we could find a preacher. And the girl that married Joe Isle (ph) the last time GS: Uh-huh BB: Her dad was a preacher and when she was a little girl, they had several kids and they always came to our house for dinner and how mom made dinner for so many people and what she had to cook, I don' ; t know. But we had that-- but we put on plays every so often to raise money for Christmas GS: Oh, uh-huh BB: And-- and I know I was always part of it, and I think I can remember a poem I was supposed to say and then I was supposed to bow and of course everything was boards, and I think the poem that said " ; My momma' ; s little girl, don' ; t you think I' ; m sweet? Something--" ; and then I was supposed to bow and I bowed too hard and nearly broke my knee GS: (Laughter) You' ; re always doing something Bunny BB: Lemme turn on the air conditioner, I don' ; t have it on GS: Oh okay BB: Hold on a minute GS: Do I need to move that seat? BB: No GS: There we go ; there we' ; re running now. Okay I' ; ll sit it right back here and we' ; ll finish. We-- we took a break to turn the air conditioning on, but we' ; re back now. And we were talking about school, did your mom pack a lunch for you? BB: Yes, that' ; s the only-- I didn' ; t-- I didn' ; t taste homemade bread till I was in the 8th grade GS: Wow BB: Yeah, we had-- we had a sixteen-pound lard bucket, or was it-- was it that eight pound? It would' ; ve had to be an eight pound, big ol' ; tin bucket. And we all put our lunches in that, and bless our hearts she' ; d send a napkin, you know, mom was kind of proper GS: Aw BB: And we had biscuit sandwiches and we had sausage sandwiches and we had ham sandwiches and we had a big orchard and we always had a piece of fruit, but we-- she never-- we never had sweets except on Sunday. She would bake cakes and pie on Sundays. GS: Well that sugar had to last all year BB: Yeah, that' ; s right. But this girl, her dad worked for Tibbons and they had money, you know, and she would bring sandwiches with store bought bread and she wanted-- everybody loved the biscuit sandwiches and so she traded with me one day, and that' ; s the first time I tasted that. But there was one family that they had a huge orchard and all they brought was fried pies. They didn' ; t have money for anything else GS: They ate fried pies for lunch? BB: Mhm, but they didn' ; t always do that because a bunch of us was anxious to trade GS: Yeah well sure you were! BB: Yeah, hey and later they started a program, the government furnishing food for kids, you know, and I still got my tin cup, we-- each kind had a tin cup and you had to bring your own spoon and that' ; s what you got, a tin cup full of stuff, macaroni and tomatoes, I never will eat any more of those. GS: (Laughter) BB: And soup, but whatever was in that tin cup is what you got. GS: Wow BB: The boys could get seconds, but the girls couldn' ; t GS: That' ; s just not fair BB: Well, and we had-- we had a drinking water bucket set in the corner in the hallway where everybody could have access to it and we all drank out of the same [Indecipherable] GS: This isn' ; t on my list, but did you have any other cultural people attend your school, or was it a strictly a white school? BB: It was a white school. There was a black school just about a mile and a half east of us. GS: Do you remember the name of the black school? BB: No GS: That' ; s okay, we' ; ve been talking about the schools lately BB: Well I' ; ve got it down someplace because I knew all the people. GS: Was your teacher very strict? BB: Yes GS: What would happen if you misbehaved, what would she do? BB: Well she' ; d send you to the office and you' ; d get a whoopin' ; , or if it wasn' ; t very bad you' ; d have to stand in the corner with your whole-- stand in the corner or at the black board with your nose in the hole, or sit on the stool in the corner. GS: Okay, did you-- did they have a Duns cap? BB: Yeah GS: Did they really? BB: Yeah. GS: Wow. Okay did you-- you already talked about your mom had Sunday school in the school building, did they attend church anywhere else when you were a child? BB: No, and I taught my first Sunday school lesson when I was sixteen, taught the first graders GS: In that school building? BB: At Iron Post, yeah. GS: What were Christmases like as a child? BB: Oh, they were great! We didn' ; t have wrapping paper, we didn' ; t have money for it, you know. And we-- seems like we got a dollar for-- to buy with. But there' ; s a big joke there that if you can get jigsaw puzzles for a dollar, for 25cents, either 25cents or a nickel, I think it was 25cents, but there was all six of us to buy for, you know, and so we would-- GS: I' ; s just checking making sure it' ; s still working, it is BB: We would buy our brothers Bob and John, they just hated jigsaw puzzles, but my sister and I we just loved to work them. So every Christmas we' ; d buy them a jigsaw puzzle, and well-- to tell you what you wanted, you know. They, Tibbons, furnished a great big Christmas tree for the Iron Post school, and with the money we made off of putting on plays at Gypsy and Iron Post and whatever, they bought candy and they made they a sack for every family whose children went to school at Iron Post. It had an apple and an orange and package of gum and miscellaneous candy, and some nuts, it was real nice. GS: And it was one per family? BB: No, it was each child GS: Oh okay BB: Oh yeah we looked forward to that, but nobody wrapped their gifts and-- oh and we had Pie Suppers to raise money for Christmas too. But they put them in and under the Christmas tree, well every year me and my sister we got dolls, I still got my dolls that I got when I was 12 years old. GS: Aw BB: Mine would have blue dress and Peggy' ; s would have a pink dress, and the boys got guns and I wanted a gun so bad GS: I figured that (Laughter) BB: But I never did get one, like I said 12 years old got a-- we were still playing with dolls, you know, 12 years old. But when mom made the boys play with us half the day and the girls the other half of day, play house-- girls games and vice versa, so I got to use the guns, you know, half hour of the day. Oh and back to the puzzles, the boys hated them and we loved to work them and my brother John died at 75 I think it was and I bought him a puzzle every year, for him and Bob both for Christmas and then Bob would just get so mad after he got about, oh 18 years old or something, he would-- he' ; s gonna throw it in the trash and then he learned I was putting money and stuff in it. But this year was Bobs birthday in March and he hasn' ; t been here, but he loved John Wayne and I ordered a book of John Wayne and his life, and he came home and I found a puzzle box that the book would just fit in and I wrapped it and then I gift wrapped it real nice, and he hasn' ; t been here yet, he' ; s coming Saturday and he' ; ll get his Christmas present GS: (Laughter) BB: And when he unwraps that and sees it' ; s a puzzle, he' ; ll give me the dirtiest look GS: Surely he' ; ll know you' ; ve got something else inside of it BB: He' ; ll see that box, puzzle box and he' ; ll just know he got another puzzle GS: I love that ; I just love that. Do you remember going to any weddings when you were younger? BB: No GS: Okay we' ; re gonna skip now to medical care. BB: Uh-oh GS: What was medical care like when you were a kid? BB: Well there wasn' ; t any really. I broke my collarbone and didn' ; t go to the doctor, you can feel it. GS: Oh my word BB: When I was 19, I went to the doctor with the flu and he said " ; When did you break your collarbone?' ; well I knew when I broke it but I didn' ; t tell him about it. ' ; Ol Dr. King, his mother and my mother-- my grandmother were good friends and he took care of us and every fall, he would mix up liniments and it was just his own secret and bring it out and it' ; d be a quart in a big bottle and mom called it horse liniments. That boy would cure your colds and whatever. GG: Wow BB: And he would bring his mother and leave her at my grandmother' ; s house so they could tear all the neighbors apart GS: Do you remember his black powder that he used to give people? BB: Oh well I had-- I was-- it was actually, we were married and I was in Texas and I had a goiter and they wanted to operate and I said " ; No I' ; ll, I' ; d rather see my doctor at home" ; and I-- and he gave me, I' ; ve still got it, but a little compact about that big that' ; s full of something sad, but looked just like axel grease, black. And he said " ; Lay down, rub this on that place on your neck and stay there for an hour" ; that was during the noon hour, " ; And do get up, just lay there" ; and I said Ok, and it just got rid of it. GS: Wow BB: It was his own mixture, and I talked to his nurse later and I did his books and one time we visited, like one time I asked him, I said " ; How come you been married so many times Dr. King?" ; He says " ; Well, my daddy said it wasn' ; t meant for man to live alone, and I believe him" ; He was a mess, he was a sweetheart GS: I went to Dr. King when I was little BB: Really? I just came across a clipping of, I' ; m gonna see if they' ; ll put it in the paper about old time doctors and it' ; s about him GS: Oh yeah, we need that! BB: It' ; s real interesting, it' ; s real interesting GS: Yeah BB: The buggy, horse and buggy doctor or something but it' ; s the title GS: How wonderful BB: He was a great old man, you couldn' ; t read his writing GS: And the women usually gave birth at home, didn' ; t they? BB: Yes [Inaudible] GS: Were you ever hospitalized? I don' ; t think you were-- BB: Not that I remember GS: Since you broke your collarbone and didn' ; t get it fixed BB: No not until after I got married, or you know. GS: Okay let' ; s skip now to Bristow, and we' ; re still in early childhood here, so what was Bristow like in your early childhood? Did you get to come to Bristow often? BB: We came on Saturdays a lot ' ; cus we brought stuff-- vegetables and stuff to the poor farm, and-- GS: Did you sell them to the poor farm or give them to the poor far? BB: No we just gave them to the poor farm. But I know where the, it' ; s the dollar store on main street, what' ; s the name of that store? GS: Dollar General BB: Yeah Dollar General. Well around the corner, there was a bar and we would try to park across the street because every night there' ; d be a fight at the bar and they' ; d take it outside, you know. But we would sit in the car and watch the people go by or walk up and down the street and then we' ; d hope to see somebody we knew. GS: Were was the poor farm located back then Bunny? BB: Well, it-- I don' ; t, I can' ; t remember exactly but it was south of town and west off of the highway on the other side. GS: South on 48? BB: Mhm. GS: How did most people travel in your childhood? BB: Well, my mother still had a buggy, my grandmother still had a buggy, but we always had a car. GS: Good, yeah. But were a lot-- were there kind of a mixture of cars and horses and buggy on the road? BB: Yeah GS: Okay BB: And when you took cotton to town, of course you took it by wagon GS: Yeah BB: And they always let--a hard hand would take to town and my brother Bill always got to go, and I picked the same amount of cotton he did and I never could understand why they wouldn' ; t let me go to town too GS: Aww BB: And then I, now I realize that-- GS: It wasn' ; t safe BB: Women didn' ; t do that GS: Yeah, yeah. What kind of businesses were in Bristow? What were some of the biggest businesses? BB: Well JC Penny because that' ; s where we bought what clothes we bought, and at Strongs (ph) they had a shoe store and all, but they had a thing that you stepped on to get the size of your shoe, it was real interesting, and-- GS: Was it like an x-ray machine? BB: No, don' ; t think so. It just-- might' ; ve been, it just showed up what size you wore. Might' ; ve been x-ray because there was a light under it GS: Huh BB: But-- GS: Or they maybe just called it that and it wasn' ; t BB: Yeah, Hamburger King and-- gee I can' ; t remember. GS: Did you ever eat at the Hamburger King as a child? BB: Not as a child, nuh-uh. We never ate in town. GS: What kind of clothes did people wear? How did they dress? BB: Well, girls and women wore dresses GS: How long were the dresses? BB: Well some of them were back- way back when, well when school teachers couldn' ; t wear anything, it had to be just above the ankle. And my grandmother boarded two school teachers who taught at Iron Post, so I can' ; t remember that. But they were below the knee, I' ; d say, and my mother was-- had a lot of pride. She wouldn' ; t go to town without her hat, her corset, and purse GS: Aww BB: Everybody wore a corset I guess GS: And did she mostly make her clothes too? She made-- BB: Yeah, we bought feed sacks, feed at Cantrell' ; s feed store and if we-- mom was wanting a dress, she' ; d buy two sacks alike to get the print. GS: Enough material BB: They were printed, yeah. Most of them were made out of them feed sacks. GS: Did you ever come into Bristow for holiday events, or did Bristow have holiday events back then? BB: I don' ; t remember coming in, of course that was seven miles to drive over a rough road GS: Yeah, yeah. What did you want to be when you grew up? BB: Everything (Laughter) BB: Mostly a hunter and fisherman. Me and my brother John, we started hunting and fishing together when we were both super little. But when we grew up, we wanted to go to Alaska-- live in Alaska and hunt and trap fish. GS: Did you ever make it to visit Alaska? BB: No, made it close but we once lived in [Indecipherable] North Dakota fifty miles from the Canadian border GS: Aw BB: That' ; s close as I got. GS: What was your first job Bunny? BB: Piggly Wiggly Grocery store GS: Where was it? BB: It was on the west side of main street down from, it was in the block south of, can' ; t even think of what' ; s there now, sixth street or something. You know where the bank was. GS: Spirit or Community? BB: First National GS: Okay BB: On the corner of main street, it was down south of there. That was during my junior and senior year, and then I went on to work with Maxine Jenkins at Lions Café as a soda jerk. GS: Now just for generations that have never heard of soda jerk, what was a soda jerk? I know but let' ; s hear it explained BB: I don' ; t really know myself, but it was when you made sodas, soda pop for people, you know. Had a tab. GS: Did you do the ice cream too? BB: Don' ; t remember that. GS: What kind of jobs have you had in your life? You' ; ve said you' ; ve had several. BB: Maybe. First I took typing and short handing in high school. My first job after I graduated from high school was a friend got me on at Hamburger Kings, she was, I can' ; t remember his name [Indecipherable], but she managed it-- GS: Was it Horainy (ph) that had it or was it Maxis? Maxis had it first, and then he sold it to Johnny Horainy (ph) BB: It was Johnny GS: Okay BB: Yeah, and she-- all she did was boss me and I did all the work and she was making twelve dollars a week and I was making ten GS: Aww BB: And I thought " ; This is ridiculous" ; well my girls that I graduated with had all gone on to Tulsa and got jobs, so I said " ; well this is a mess" ; of course I wanted to be at home, and so I quit and went to Tulsa. GS: Yup it' ; s still running BB: And got a job as a typist, me and Wanda Sanders at the candy building, and from there I got a job with a wholesale drug company and that was a riot, and I worked over night as a curb hawk for drive in and that was the money I earned to come home on, be there by bus or train. GS: Now come home, where were you? BB: Back to Bristow, in Tulsa GS: Oh okay BB: I was in Tulsa. Yeah and one night we girls decided that we were gonna [Inaudible] and we decided we would just-- the soldiers were crowded up there, they were saying you' ; re in the big crowd, we thought we' ; d go shopping, in the shop to see what was going on. And we noticed all of the girls had their pant legs cuffed, ya know, so we thought that was in style, of course we was in the country and didn' ; t know anything and so we rolled our cuff lengths up. Well some soldiers joined us, you know, but they didn' ; t start walking with us and talking and so they said something about a hotel room, we didn' ; t know what they was talking about, and they said well how come you' ; ve got your pants legs rolled up, that' ; s what that means GS: Oh my word, I never heard that! BB: Well we rolled our pants legs cuff down so fast it' ; s make your head spin GS: So if a girl was easy, so to speak, they rolled their jeans up and the guy knew to take them out BB: Right GS: Oh my word, I never knew that. That' ; s interesting BB: I didn' ; t know it either (Laughter) GS: You learned real quick though, didn' ; t you? BB: And the first-- on the first job I got, was just typing, and I had interviewed, you know, been interviewed you know, and well the first time Wanda and I, we' ; d just never been around stop lights GS: Now who' ; s Wanda? BB: Wanda Sanders, she was my best friend GS: Okay BB: And we were walking across the street, crossing the street and a car honked at us and we weren' ; t paying attention, you know when we had walked across the street, we got to work and to was our boss, we were crossing at a red light. And momma told us don' ; t get in a car with strange men, she said whatever you do don' ; t get in a car with strange men. Well, I was standing out in the rain one time waiting for the bus-- GS: Uh-huh BB: To get to work, and a car stopped. It was pouring down rain and he was honking, you know, I wouldn' ; t [Indecipherable] I looked the other way and kept waiting, and finally he drove on, well that was our boss too. I had-- it was always something like that going on with me GS: (Laughter) BB: And you had to ride-- we rode the train home and we couldn' ; t get a seat, you had to hold on because it' ; s so full of service men and people who couldn' ; t get a seat, and Tom, my oldest nephew, he-- of course his dad was killed in [Indecipherable] and he wanted a rabbit so bad, and you couldn' ; t get a rabbit in Bristow, so I bought him a rabbit from Tulsa and you weren' ; t supposed to take things like that on the train, so I hid it under my coat and I looked like I was pregnant and everybody was giving room for me, you know. And then another time he wanted a stick horse, so I bought him a stick horse, I [Indecipherable] everybody on that train, [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: On purpose or accidently? BB: No, accidentally because it was long, you know, it was sticking out from under my coat. I' ; ve always had a lot of fun, usually at my expense. GS: Okay I wanna know about when you met MerleBB: I knew him all my life, I guess. They played, you know, music for the Pie Suppers and everything, so we' ; d go in and hear them GS: Was he from the Iron Post area also? BB: No he was from down by-- well at first he was over on the east of Talaha (ph) [Indecipherable] GS: Okay BB: And then they moved to south of town, I think he went to school at Valentine maybe GS: Okay BB: And, but he-- I don' ; t know they might have had a bus running from Gypsy down there, but I never knew him until he was, you know, he was in school at Gypsy. GS: So did he ask you out on a first date? BB: No, they would come to him and Dilmore would come to that place on Tibbons lease, you know, where we had the games and all, and he would walk me home and there were a bunch of people on north of me that walked, we' ; d all walk together and he would walk me home. And he played the banjo, and his brother played the guitar at that time, and I wanted his brother to walk me home, but every time his brother would ask to walk me home, well Merle would intervene, he wouldn' ; t have it. Well I didn' ; t like Merle very well. But anyway, he never-- Merle never turned loose, and one time I told him, you know, I didn' ; t wanna see him anymore, I couldn' ; t run him off, and my sister and I in our old smoke house we made it into a bedroom for us, and mom, well she wasn' ; t well then, and we had an old wire couch that folded up that I [Inaudible]. And so us kids would play music out there, well Merle he would come and he left his banjo out there, and he would come up and he would play the banjo and I' ; d play the basket or guitar, and he' ; d get ready to leave and he' ; d say " ; You gonna kiss me goodnight?" ; I thought " ; I don' ; t kiss boys" ; . Peggy would say " ; Well I' ; ll kiss you Merle" ; So [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Now who' ; s Peggy? BB: My sister GS: Oh BB: Just younger than me GS: Okay BB: But one time he came to the house and he-- I didn' ; t let him stay he threatened to kill himself he had something in his hand, and I said " ; Well kill yourself if you want to" ; but he says " ; I' ; m not coming to see you, I' ; m coming to see Bobby" ; and he just kept coming to the house, you know. And then come to find out in later years, he told all the boys in High School that I dated [Indecipherable] just one or two or three, and well I' ; d get tickled, you know, sometimes I' ; d get tickled. I wouldn' ; t date him anymore. But he told them to lay of off me, you know, and if some- only way you knew somebody was coming to see you was going to show up because there' ; s no telephones or anything. And I remember Francis Wrestler had come to see me, and we were outside of course talking and Merle came up and he stayed till after he left. Uh he was-- I couldn' ; t get rid of him GS: So what did he do to finally win your heart? BB: Well, when I was 14 or 15, and Kenneth Mann had- that was when they were building ships for the war and paying good money, so Kenneth left school and went to California and told Merle that, you know, it' ; s a good deal out there. So Merle went, and he-- well Kenneth, they tried to get us girls to go with them and marry them, and Marie went ; she was just 15. GS: Oh my goodness BB: And I said " ; I don' ; t wanna get married" ; and I wasn' ; t about to take off with him, and I didn' ; t let boys kiss me. I didn' ; t want any, if they weren' ; t fun, forget it. And so Merle ended up sending me a set of rings, and I told mom " ; What am I to do with this?" ; I said " ; I don' ; t want them, I' ; m not gonna get married" ; and she said " ; Well if you don' ; t want them, send them back to him" ; so I did. And he- there was a peach orchard between the highway and their house, he had stopped there before he left trying to get me to marry him and I told him, I said " ; No, I' ; m not interested" ; And so after he was in the service and got out, he was in there for four years, and he got out, and we were going-- he came, of course to the house, and he was going to move down, I was with him to [Indecipherable] his house, well we stopped at the peach orchard, and I thought " ; Uh-oh" ; he pulled out those same rings, well what do you do? So, we got married GS: (Laughter) Not exactly sweeping you off your feet, was he? BB: Yeah and then after we moved to town, well you know back then the soldiers whistled at the girls and when we would go out, you know, any place, we had to go out to eat a hamburger because I didn' ; t cook, I didn' ; t have anything to cook with. And if somebody whistled at me, he' ; d say " ; wait here" ; and he' ; d be ready to fight ' ; em. GS: Oh my goodness BB: So I quit going out with him, I just quit going out with him. And come to find out, after he died, somebody, I can' ; t remember his name, he told me that Merle told those boys [Indecipherable] that they better keep their hands off of me. GS: He really was smitten by you Bunny BB: He' ; d kill me if I run around on him as they say. GS: Yeah sounds like it, what was your wedding like? BB: Well it was night,' ; course it was nice because I had to keep laughing. Well, he bought me a big bouquet and I was shaking and the leaves were rattling. GS: (Laughter) And that got you tickled BB: Well the preacher was my cousin and he didn' ; t look at me afraid he would laugh if I was looking. Didn' ; t look at him afraid he would laugh, but my daddy gave me away, and my sister, oldest sister was my bridesmaid, and Johnny, Nathans mother mother had a flower shop here and so [Indecipherable] his best man. And I was-- I had a date Saturday night before, and on Tuesday, Tuesday I had told him I would marry him. I felt sorry for him, he couldn' ; t even eat, you know, couldn' ; t keep food down his stomach, he just weighed 120 pounds GS: Oh my word BB: He lived on rations all those years and he couldn' ; t eat, and I felt so sorry for him so I thought " ; Well, I' ; ll marry him and get him on his feet then he can marry somebody else" ; and I had told him that on Tuesday night, Saturday night I had a date with somebody else, and I wasn' ; t about to give up the date, so I had a date. Anyway GS: Did you ever go to the bigger cities like Tulsa or Oklahoma City? BB: I don' ; t ever remember going to Oklahoma City till after I had Donna lived up there GS: Did you ever take the train back then? BB: No GS: Anywhere? BB: Just to Tulsa ; well yeah I was in Tulsa a lot, ' ; cus I worked up there GS: Yeah once you started working there BB: Yeah GS: Do you remember when, well no ' ; cus you were born that year so you wouldn' ; t have remembered when route 66 was built. BB: No GS: Okay, let' ; s go-- BB: I had two cousins that helped build the road to Slick from Bristow GS: I' ; m gonna skip some of these questions and ask you about your involvement with Western Heritage Days BB: Well, I helped-- I guess I helped get it started and all-- we were all working together. Merle, he learned to weld in the shipyards, you know, and Doy Cochran (ph) was a welder, he had his own business, and they were the special welders that built this arena in there where the chestcord (ph) is now. And, but with help from everybody, everybody was interested, and as they welded the pipes together, Warren, well shoot I can' ; t think of her name, he was a policeman GS: Hall, Freddie Hall? BB: No GS: No BB: Warren GS: I don' ; t know, that' ; s okay BB: But anyway we painted them, we painted them the same GS: And what did you do with them? BB: Well we painted the corrals ' ; cus they built them GS: Oh okay, for the rodeo? BB: Yeah. And uh-- GS: What about the parades and everything? Did you help with that? BB: Well not particularly. GS: What about that picture of you that we have when you' ; re all dressed up in your costume as a Saloon lady BB: Yeah GS: What about that? BB: Well if I was meeting a man on the street, he would' ; ve looked at me kind of questionably. And if he had on a hat, he would-- he would be smiling too. But I had a Gingham dress too, but that was the most popular. And one time at the end of the parade, I went to stand on the west side to watch the rest of the parade and Mr. Poston (ph), highly a religious man was there, but I standing kind of against the building about that far. But he looked at me like that and he scooted over GS: (Laughter) He thought you were the real thing, didn' ; t he? BB: Yeah, but what the funniest thing was, Merle had told me I was-- you know wore a dress one day then the other, the next day, and I was-- had that red dress on and so Merle told me he said " ; I' ; ll pay for your lunch if you meet me down at the J& ; J at 12 o' ; clock" ; and I said " ; okay" ; and I' ; d made my little, little bag, ya know, to match my dress and so he said, I told him I' ; d be there at 12 o' ; clock. Well, I was late and he says " ; How come you' ; re late?" ; and I had took a ten-dollar bill and had it changed into quarters and I just threw that on the table and I said " ; Well what do you think?" ; GS: (Laughter) BB: He just gave me a dirty look ; he knew I wouldn' ; t have been worth a quarter GS: Now you' ; ve told me some stories before about the-- some of the pranks and jokes you and Merle would play on each other. Your marriage was pretty much-- BB: Play GS: Play. Can you recall any of them? BB: Oh, that' ; s all you can do that, if you recall it it' ; s something. We were always at each other, we were trying to put something off on each other, and just like that quarter game. But, well for one thing he would-- he would, he was ornery. And one year for every fourth of July, all the family was at the house and the boys would go play golf and we had a big ice cream freezer and we' ; d make ice cream. Well his birthday was the twelfth of June and so he told me what he wanted for his birthday was an electric ice cream freezer, so I-- that' ; s what I bought him for his birthday, I had no idea what he was thinking. And the boys, Merle of course beat them all at golf so he didn' ; t have to turn the freezer but all the other guys took turns turning the freezer and it finally froze so hard that they had to quit. Well Merle came out of the house with his ice cream freezer and he says " ; boys look what I got for my birthday" ; I thought they were gonna kill him GS: Oh after they had made it the other way BB: Yeah GS: (Laughter) BB: Crazy thing GS: Oh my goodness BB: And then, oh one of the good times I got off on him, I was planting flowers along the fence and then we had a yard fence and then two strands of barbed wire above that, and he came up behind me and I didn' ; t know it and poked me with his ho or something, and I jumped and I jumped between those two barbed wire fences and my hair, of course I had long hair and it was all tangled up, and he was just dying laughing until he saw my head was bleeding. Then he started helping me get out, get untangled, you know. Well that was fine ; but wasn' ; t long after that that we had this 8-foot picture window in the living room that you could see clear down to the end of the road. And so he came in, took a bath, and he was in his shorts sitting in his chair, he was on this side of the window and I was over here, I could see down the road. And we were sitting there watching television and I had that table that' ; s-- that' ; s table for the old home, and I said " ; Oh gosh Merle here comes a car" ; and he jumped up and he jumped across that table and hit it and fell off of it, and he jumped up again and he took off down the hall (Laughter) BB: And pretty soon he came back dressed, you know, and he says " ; Who was it?" ; and I said " ; Oh it wasn' ; t anybody, I just thought it was somebody" ; he just gave me a dirty look. That' ; s how I got even with him. GS: That sounds like you sure did. Do you remember when Bristow was segregated? Do you have any memories of that? BB: No I don' ; t because we weren' ; t segregated, we had a family called Mason family and they had a lot of kids and they were poor. They picked our cotton every year, picked for but we had to pick too, but they picked for us. We [Indecipherable] a lot of cotton, but we-- we helped black people all we could. GS: Yeah BB: We didn' ; t-- but when we went to build the barn, it' ; s build on telephone poles that was disbanded, and Merle was trying to get one of them down the road to help him and he said he was afraid that he would lose his assistance from the government, so I had to help him. And I was up on top of one of those telephone poles. We were building it, and the poles were in the ground, but we were stretching woods across from one pole to the other. And I got on top of one of those telephone poles to be sure we got this board leveled, and he was gonna- looked down and he was about to poke me with a stick, I' ; d have fell off of that telephone pole. GS: Oh my goodness! BB: Crazy thing, and he would weld. He built our pens and everything and I would help him. And one time he tried- he was gonna hand me a red hot piece of pipe, you know. GS: Oh gosh that would' ; ve hurt BB: Yeah, you had to keep your eye on him! Of course he kept his eye on me too GS: I was gonna say I bet he had to keep his eye on you too BB: Yeah (Laughter) GS: Do you have any memories of the great depression? I know you were pretty small and-- BB: Yeah but all I remember is we were poor, you know. If we didn' ; t raise our food, we wouldn' ; t have had any food. GS: Did any of your-- was any of your family involved in any of the government assistant work programs? BB: No, but at one time the government at Iron Post, they sent beans home with each family according to the size of the family and we had six of us, we had a big stack of beans. Well, guess who had to do the carrying ' ; cus he' ; s biggest? And we quit-- we traded off some but I had to carry them mostly. And-- GS: I bet they got pretty heavy BB: They did after a mile GS: How far did you have to walk? BB: A mile. But I was always stout, you know. GS: Yeah BB: Working outside and everything GS: Do you remember any of the-- I know you said none of your family worked for the WPA, but do you remember coming into Bristow when they maybe built the amphitheater or when Mrs. Roosevelt came and dedicated it in the building? BB: Well mom would bring us to town like there was somebody, Landon I think it was, ran for president. He' ; d come on the train and talk on the back of the train, and she would bring us to town to see those people, she was always very good with-- GS: Political binded BB: Yeah political binded. But I don' ; t remember that GS: Okay, okay. BB: I might' ; ve come, but I don' ; t remember it. GS: She was [Indecipherable]. Was she involved in politics in any other way? BB: Well, I don' ; t know if she was always-- she, there was a mayor Brong (ph). Anyway, she always came to their meetings, you know, she was always interested in the government, whatever was going on so I guess she was interested in politics. GS: Did any of your family members ever run for office? BB: No GS: Did your mother mention when women got suffrage when they got the right to vote, anything about that? Now you' ; ve mentioned the 40' ; s, what year did you graduate? Well, what year did you-- well let me just skip that part. What are your memories of WWII? BB: Well, foil. I' ; m reminded of that every day, I just hate to waste a piece of foil because we collected foil, they needed it for armory. And even chewing gum, each stick was wrapped in foil, and boy we-- if somebody was chewing gum, we would watch and the one that had the biggest ball of foil at a certain time, we' ; d turn them in every so often. And the one that had the biggest one got a package of gum GS: Well BB: I remember that. GS: That' ; s the way they got kid to recycle. BB: Yeah, and I' ; ve got some things about that over there to get toothpaste or something, you had to bring an empty tube. GS: Do you remember your ration books that your mother had? BB: Yeah, yeah. Sugar and gasoline and everything, but mama Foster got a ration book and she didn' ; t go anyplace so we got to use hers GS: Well that helped a big family BB: Yeah, yeah it did. GS: Did she live very far away from you? BB: Half a mile GS: Half a mile, that' ; s good. Did anybody, I know your husband Merle served in WWII, tell me about that. BB: Well, he-- he was on, he was on the [Indecipherable] canal and all those little islands around there, [Indecipherable] GS: What, was he in the marines? BB: Yeah, my brother was in the navy GS: Okay BB: And he burned his feet, they were fighting with fire on the walls I think it was. And a boy worked for us, the neighbor boys would work for us and just come and live with us. When they got sixteen, their dad' ; s would run them off and they' ; d come to our house and they' ; d [Indecipherable] and moved on. But Alfred Dobson (ph), Pete' ; s brother, he was working for us and he quit to join the navy, and he was on the wasp, and we never found his body. GS: Aw, was the wasp, did it go down? BB: Yeah, Japanese. GS: In Pearl Harbor or out on the- BB: Out in the GS: Out in the ocean, in the ocean BB: Yeah in the ocean GS: But your brother survived BB: Yeah he had burned feet, but he got out GS: Good, was your brother and Merle the only two who served in- BB: In WWII GS: In WWII? BB: No. GS: Did you-- were you, did your family listen to the war news on the radio? BB: I don' ; t know because I wasn' ; t home [Inaudible] GS: You mentioned the radio battery earlier, was it a car battery that you used on your radio? BB: I don' ; t-- GS: I' ; ve heard some people used car batteries BB: I don' ; t know GS: Don' ; t remember, okay. Did you read any newspapers as a young adult? BB: Yes GS: What newspapers did you read? BB: Tulsa GS: Tulsa World or whatever it was back then BB: Tulsa World. Yeah, that' ; s where I have all these old clippings because there wasn' ; t anything to do, and I was always interested in History, and so I' ; ve got a box full of old newspaper clippings GS: Oh BB: Even at the beginning of World War II GS: That' ; s wonderful. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your lifetime? BB: Wow so many GS: Yes, there are. There' ; s so many that have impacted life, it would be hard to pick just a few favorite. BB: Yeah, I guess most important would be the computers. But I don' ; t have one, don' ; t want one. I' ; ve gone this long, long time without one, don' ; t need one. GS: What event would you say influence the world the most during your lifetime? Event or events? BB: I would say World War II GS: Did you-- were you aware during WWII of what Hitler was doing? BB: Yes, I kept up with the news. Mom insisted on a daily newspaper, so. GS: Oh, this is a loaded question ; how different is the world today than it was when you were a child? BB: Just as different as you can get GS: Yeah BB: Absolutely just exactly different. There' ; s no-- you can' ; t punish children for anything, you can' ; t punish murderers for anything, there' ; s no laws, no regulations, everybody can do whatever you want you, and you won' ; t get punished very bad for it. No manners, kids don' ; t have manners, they' ; re not being taught manners and good behavior. GS: And that has to come from home and they' ; re not getting it at home. BB: That' ; s right, that' ; s right. I can remember mom was pretty good, she was bad on manners and we weren' ; t allowed to eat until everybody was seated at the table, and if you wanted to leave earlier than most people, you had to be excused from the table. And you didn' ; t slam doors, and Tom was about three or four years old and he was at our house and we had a door between the living room and the kitchen, and he was upset about something, he-- mom had got onto him for some reason, and he slammed the door, but we didn' ; t hear his footsteps leaving, so he just there waiting. He came back, opened the door and he said " ; Anytime I slam a door like that, you know I' ; m mad" ; and he [Indecipherable] and she said " ; You go home before you get in trouble" ; . GS: Ooh! I think you kind of alluded to the problems, but I' ; m gonna ask this question anyway. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face out nation today? BB: Love GS: What? BB: Love GS: Love BB: If you love people you wouldn' ; t treat them like you do. Everybody' ; s greedy, everybody' ; s ready to cheat anybody out of a dollar, and-- GS: It is a sad state BB: It really is, don' ; t look out for one another at all. And that' ; s the way we were raised, we were raised to look out for one another. Backed people whoever GS: Yup, okay we' ; ve talked about a lot ; is there anything else you' ; d like to tell us that I haven' ; t thought of to ask ya? BB: There' ; s a lot of things I' ; d like to tell you but I don' ; t-- wouldn' ; t want it on tape (Laughter) GS: Is there anything of historic significance that you could tell me that you would want to have on tape? BB: Yes, there' ; s one thing I' ; m so proud of. I worked for the first CPA in Bristow GS: And who was that? BB: C. C. Wilson GS: C. C. Wilson, and what did you do? BB: Kept books. GS: K, okay. And what year was that, years? Decade would work. BB: Probably not, I don' ; t remember GS: Was it after you and Merle were married? BB: Yes GS: So sometime after 45' ; BB: Yeah GS: When did you stop working for him? BB: Well see, when he died, he left the office-- office, he had five offices and he left the offices to the manager [Indecipherable] Bristow office, the Johnny Simmons (ph) GS: Oh okay BB: And I remember Johnny Simmons, but- GS:I think I knew that and had forgotten. BB: I have no clue, don' ; t know how long. GS: Okay. Well I' ; ll tell ya Bunny, if you think of anything else that you think " ; Oh man this would' ; ve gone good in that" ; , you call me and I' ; ll bring the little recorder back and we' ; ll get it taken care of, okay? BB: Well, I-- My ambition was to be a-- was a reporter GS: Court recorder, or reporter? BB: Reporter, I worked for a, what was his name, out at the house, I typed for him. The court reporter here. I can' ; t think of the name, but we had money for a camper, fast boats, anything you wanna mention, but we never had the money for a machine so I could be a reporter. GS: Now I didn' ; t ask you how long you and Merle were married BB: It was sixty- no fifty-eight years GS: Fifty-eight years BB: Because I was looking forward to sixty GS: Aw BB: He didn' ; t make it GS: When did he pass away Bunny? BB: Hm, can' ; t remember GS: That' ; s okay BB: I' ; ve got it down GS: It' ; s okay ; that' ; ll work, that' ; ll work. Well I really appreciate your doing this, we at the museum were all excited! Linda said " ; Oh those are two heavy weights you' ; re doing, you and Caroline Webb" ; so, I haven' ; t got to do Caroline yet but I think I should' ; ve stopped this before I rambled. Yup it' ; s still going. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-01_Bunny_Baker.xml OHP-2020-01_Bunny_Baker.xml
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Bunny Baker
Description
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In this 2020 interview, Bunny Baker shares her experiences growing up in Bristow. She discusses family history, western heritage days, and shares many fun stories from her childhood through young adult life.
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OHP-2020-01
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2020-09-11
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
farming
Great Depression
holidays
home life
hospital
Iron Post
Native American ceremonies
Poor Farm
restaurants
social life
stores
World War I
World War II
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8ac2714537977695b4070c30ae2f4f68
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carole Ellis
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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5.4 November 12, 2020 OHP-2020-09 Carole Ellis OHP-2020-09 00:00 - 64:15 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Carole Ellis Georgia Smith MP3 1:|60(7)|92(1)|114(3)|154(15)|166(13)|183(15)|202(11)|220(3)|241(8)|263(12)|291(1)|318(7)|333(2)|358(7)|377(8)|409(1)|420(9)|441(1)|467(6)|477(9)|507(2)|527(3)|542(5)|568(2)|591(5)|603(4)|621(7)|641(3)|677(3)|704(8)|718(13)|728(6)|746(7)|754(11)|768(4)|782(1)|791(15)|813(11)|832(11)|842(6)|853(9)|862(14)|874(2)|880(3)|893(1)|906(3)|914(10)|925(2)|943(6)|955(16)|969(1)|982(6)|995(6)|1011(11)|1036(5)|1065(2)|1079(9)|1094(6)|1105(1)|1116(6)|1131(6)|1142(15)|1156(1)|1169(13) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Carole Greer Ellis.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carol Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carol? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carol Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carol Lynn Greer Baltimore, Maryland ; Bristow Historical Society ; Carol Greer Ellis ; Carol Lynn Greer ; Georgia Smith 77 Family History GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents’ names, and we’ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43’ or 44’ CE: Yes Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel ; Edward Wyatt ; Gale Lease Lawson ; Jerry Ellis ; Merle Leroy Greer https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25270948/edward-j-wyatt Edward Wyatt 220 Childhood GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Slyman lived across the street, Claudia Parish—Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? Billy Newton ; Claudia Parish ; Edison Elementary ; Peggy Newton ; Safeway ; Sherry Hill ; Silver plunge ; Washington Elementary ; Winky Dink ; Zorro 705 Grandparents GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we’re gonna switch to your grandparent’s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before—let me back up, what were your grandparent’s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don’t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my—they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother’s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother’s father, and he also was born in Maryland. Creek County ; Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel ; Earnest Greer ; Mounds, Oklahoma ; Thomas Charleston Brigle ; Willa Wyatt Greer 917 School GS: Where did you first attend school? We’re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? Bristow High School ; Bristow Junior High School ; Edison Elementary ; Gladys Holcombe ; Mrs. Foster ; New York City ; Oklahoma State University ; Peadee Smith ; University of Oklahoma ; Washington Elementary 1234 Church Life GS: I'm sure you did, I'm sure. Okay we're gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to First Baptist Church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is. GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you can't remember GS: No First Baptist Church ; Harvets Jewelry Store 1374 Medical Care GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt's doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay Dr. C. T. Kent ; Dr. King ; Kay James ; Laban ; Saint Francis Hospital ; Siscler 1633 Businesses GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You've mentioned some grocery stores, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I'll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Cafe, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows. GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Bushes American National Bank ; Bushes Cafe ; Dairy Queen ; Ford Hardware Store ; Hamburger King ; Harvest Jewelry ; Harvets Jewelry ; Ice House ; Kemp Drug ; MedalGold ; Mrs. Bushkin ; Oscars ; Patens ; Princes Theater ; Redbird ; Shamus ; Silvers ; Stanford Clothing Shop ; Strongs ; Tropes Service Station ; Walmer ; Woolworth 1800 Jobs and Art GS: Okay, that's pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn't have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I loved plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house. GS: I did not know that. National Academy ; New York City ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma State University ; The Natural Wire Draw ; Wanda Newton 2118 Oklahoma City Bombing GS: Now I know that you've used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City Bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Murrah building affect you personally? CE: I think that's two different questions so I'm gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There's fine art and there's commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it's a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future's gonna be. You never know that it's gonna be based on money or how you're gonna survive. You train yourself fin the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you're going to become, you don't have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that's happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- American Library Association ; Chris Watt ; FAA ; John Lennon ; Murrah Building ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; Oklahoma City Project ; Oklahoma Department of Libraries ; Parsons ; Woody Guthrie 2886 Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don't remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I'm very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I'm always getting back involved with it. Well after I'd been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that's right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I'd been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I'm not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela's back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I've written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- Fashion Institute ; Jimmy Baker ; New York ; Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony ; Trace Kelly 3213 Politics GS: You did ; alright we're going to switch now. I don't think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we're gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that's a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it's better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn't mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone's else's point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. Korean War ; Martin Marietta ; Princeton ; World War II 3408 Lifetime Changes and Closing Thoughts GS: We're gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn't have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let's see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It's a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there's something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don't have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. COVID ; Gilcrease Museum In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Carole Ellis Other Persons: Date of Interview: November 12, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-09 at 00:00 to 64:15 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carole Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carole? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carole Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carole Lynn Greer GS: Okay, and where were you born? CE: I was born in Baltimore, Maryland GS: Were you born in a hospital? CE: Yes, I was GS: Okay, and what was the date of your birth? CE: February 26, 1945. GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents' ; names, and we' ; ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43' ; or 44' ; CE: Yes GS: Okay, what brought them to Oklahoma? Probably that he was from here. CE: My father' ; s family was here from before statehood, his mother was born in a sod house in creek county and her dad, Edward Wyatt, created one of the first rural schools in creek county. GS: Oh awesome! I find out so much I didn' ; t know. How many children did your parents have? CE: Two GS: Okay and what were their names, or are their names? CE: Well myself and my sister Gale Lease Lawson (ph) GS: What did your father do for a living? CE: My father worked for the post office. GS: Okay, most of his life? CE: Yes, he did, he retired from the post office and so did his father. GS: Oh, what did your mother do? CE: My mother was a dental assistant, and did dental education in Bristow schools GS: I remember your mother and the kids would always come home and say " ; The tooth lady came to see us today" ; CE: That' ; s right, and of course she was involved in starting the historical society. GS: Yes, yes she was. What is your-- are you married? CE: No GS: Okay, have you been married? CE: Yes, I have GS: What was your spouse' ; s name? CE: Jerry GS: Jerry-- CE: Ellis GS: Ellis, okay. And what date was that, that you got married? CE: Oh gosh, it' ; s been so long ago. I don' ; t really remember. GS: Okay, did you divorce? CE: Yes, we did GS: Or was he-- Okay. Did you have any children? CE: No GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Sly man lived across the street, Claudia Parish--Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? CE: First we were in something called veterans apartments, which I think were near the football field where I think people were returning from the war. Now my father was in World War II, and the Korean conflict he was called back, I remember that time because my mom was really sad and he left us before we were home. And then they started building a new housing edition on South Cedar street, and we watched a house being built there and moved there. GS: Okay, what are some of your favorite toys as a child? CE: My crayons GS: I knew you were gonna say that. Carole is quite the artist. What kind of role did your mother play in the home? CE: Well mother was--she baked a lot of things, she made the house look beautiful, but she was also a working woman. GS: And how was your laundry done? CE: In a washing machine, but I do remember going over to my grandmother Greer' ; s house and seeing a big sink in the basement and there was an old washing machine that had a wringer, you know those wringer things GS: Yes, but yours did not have a wringer CE: No it didn' ; t GS: Okay, what kind of cooking stove? CE: Gas GS: Gas cooking stove. What were some of your normal daily meals? CE: Cheerios in the morning, lunch at the elementary schools where the cooks made the best food whether there was Edison Elementary or when we moved across town to Washington Elementary, and those wonderful cinnamon rolls that they cooked in the morning and you smelled them in the school while you were doing your morning classes. And then while it' ; s close to thanksgiving time now so we would' ; ve gone to my grandmother' ; s house and there would' ; ve been a big turkey and lots of homemade dressing and pies cooling on the back porch and homemade rolls, lots of them because the family was big. My father had five brothers and sisters and everyone came to grandmother' ; s house with my cousins. And the big dining room table was laid out and then the kids tables were in the kitchen and in the summer time, homemade ice cream, and the freezers in the--the ice cream makers in the back yard where the kids sat on a palate while the adults churned the ice cream GS: Did they sit on top of the ice cream freezer? CE: Yes, you sat on top of the quilt of the ice cream--on top of the ice cream freezer. GS: Do you have any of the family recipes from your childhood that you still make? CE: No I don' ; t, but my grandmother made incredible mashed potatoes, which I tried to do myself with lots of butter. You have to have lots of butter in mashed potatoes GS: Oh yeah, that makes them much better. Where did you--where did your family shop for groceries? CE: Well, at the time I grew up main street had a lot of stores, among it were some small grocery stores on main street itself. And so I remember going to that store. Also at that time, grocery stores delivered sometimes. It' ; s funny now with the pandemic that we' ; re actually reverting back to the older ways of having groceries delivered to your house. GS: This is true CE: I think--I think Safeway was here then. GS: What were your daily chores? CE: Summer, mowing the lawn. Laundry when my mother was working and washing and drying the dishes, and washing the car in the summertime with my sister. GS: Oh, I always thought that was fun. Did your family ever employ any household help? CE: No. GS: What type of clothes did you wear? CE: My mother was always very good about keeping us up with the latest things, so it was nice. GS: So probably store bought clothes CE: Yes GS: And you already told me who some of your childhood friends were, what about some of your childhood games that you played? CE: Well the Newton' ; s were big friends too, Peggy and Billy Newton. Games, monopoly, I wasn' ; t a big game person, I was more of being an outdoor person GS: Well maybe outdoor games CE: Well, hide-and-seek in the summertime till it got dark then the neighborhood kids had to go inside, swimming of course in the summertime learning how to swim, and walking, going to day camp, day camp was just--first day camp for Bristow schools was started when I was growing up and we all went to day camp. GS: Was that at the--was the swimming pool called the Silver Plunge back then? CE: It was, and the day camp was in what were the--the city has the buildings now but those buildings-- GS: Were the camp CE: Where they used to have the county fair and county buildings. GS: What was your daily life like? Just to--a day in the life of Carol Ellis when you were a child, Carol Greer? CE: Well of course on Saturday when we got TV finally, you would watch some of your favorite shows like Zorro or go over to the neighbor' ; s house and watch Winky Dink, which had a Wink--Sherrin had a Winky Dink set which was something you bought from the TV people and you put this little screen up on your TV and Winky Dink would have adventures and you would have a little pencil that you would draw little bridges or-- GS: Oh how fun CE: You would interact with the story GS: And that was right up your ally. CE: Well that was fun GS: Yes, I' ; m sure you enjoyed that. Okay you just mentioned television, do you remember the first television you got? CE: I do, because it was a family decision. We had to decide whether we wanted to spend money on getting bicycles or television. GS: And television won out CE: It did GS: Did you have radio before that? CE: Yes GS: And did you all listen to it in the evenings much? CE: All the time GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to your grandparent' ; s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before--let me back up, what were your grandparent' ; s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don' ; t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my--they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother' ; s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother' ; s father, and he also was born in Maryland. GS: Okay CE: Then my--I knew my great grandparents Brigle and my great grandparents Giden, all in Maryland. And then I knew my great grandmother Wyatt (ph) who was my grandmother Greers mom, and her sisters and all her sisters, she had three, lived to be older than 95 years old. GS: Wow CE: And my grandmother lived to be 100, and all of them had their wits about them GS: That is wonderful CE: That' ; s true. GS: Do you remember who the oldest person in your family was when you were a child? CE: My great grandmothers GS: And-- CE: Great--grandfather. GS: Okay, do you remember anything specifically them saying about life or anything? CE: I remember what they did GS: Ok CE: My great grandmother Giden and they had this wonderful two story house and they held us outside of Maryland and whenever we would visit in the summer times, the house number one was quiet. The only sound in the house was the ticking of the clock in the living room GS: Wow, mhm. CE: And the--there was a water pump on the back porch and a beautiful stream near the side of the house and she raised beautiful lilac bushes and flowers and she had banty chickens, so when we would visit for vacation time, she would cook--she was a great cook, and the thing I remember most was she would make pancakes after the dinner after we arrived and then she would put chicken gravy on the pancakes in the morning. GS: Oh my goodness CE: And that was very delicious. And my great grandfather Giden had lost his arm shooting off fireworks GS: Ohh CE: Just below the elbow, but he never let it interfere with how active he was in driving the car, or whatever he did. And he had a really wonderful personality, he would sit down on this old screen covered porch with us as grandchildren and we' ; d sit in these wonderful wicker rocking chairs and watch the trains go by. GS: What delightful memories I love those. CE: All my grandmothers were good cooks. GS: Ah, I think most grandmothers back then were good cooks CE: They were very good cooks GS: Where did you first attend school? We' ; re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? CE: 1963' ; then Oklahoma State University, graduated in English, started my masters in English and OSU, stopped that when I decided I didn' ; t think I knew enough to write a dissertation, and then I started working in the libraries in Oklahoma City, then I went to the university of Oklahoma and got my masters in Library Science. Completed that, then went to work at the state department of the libraries in Oklahoma City, and did public relations, and then I went to New York city and worked in Publishing and public relations and at that time, that' ; s when I got involved in the art schools in New York City, even though as a child I' ; d always done art and when actually I was here in Bristow, growing up there was an art teacher named Peadee Smith (ph) and Peedea gave art lessons in her house and a lot of us kids took art lessons with her. And then Gladys Holcombe (ph) was the art teacher in elementary school at Washington, and so she was very influential both Gladys and Peadee. GS: Did they, back then, switch like 6 months at Washington and 6 months at Edison? CE: Oh no GS: Like they do today? CE: Not at all, m-m. No you went there all the time, it was a neighborhood school. GS: Okay CE: You know ; this was a small town. You walked to school, wherever you lived on which side of town doesn' ; t matter whether you went to Edison or Washington, and you walked to school. And it was not kindergarten, but first grade through sixth grade. GS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations or sports? CE: Yes GS: In high school? CE: In high school. Pep club, speech and debate, future teachers of America, Latin club because we studied Latin, two years of Latin, and I was involved in everything. GS: That' ; s wonderful, that' ; s what kids need to do. Was the high school used for any other community purpose back then that you remember? CE: No GS: Did you take a sack lunch or did you eat in the cafeteria? CE: There was no cafeteria in the high school GS: Okay CE: And there was no cafeteria in the junior high school GS: Just the elementary? CE: Just the elementary schools, so junior high I remember I' ; m not sure quite what we did there. We' ; d walk home, I mean it was nothing to walk home, or we would take our lunches, they had lunch rooms where you--people who brought their lunch ate their lunch. And then whenever we were in high school we came down town and went to the cafes. GS: Do you remember anything in particular about the classroom, or were teachers strict back then? Easy going? CE: We had incredible, incredibly educated teachers. If you look in our yearbook, over half our teachers had master' ; s degrees at the time in their field GS: That' ; s wonderful CE: We had a library in all the schools with librarians. There was natural light in the classroom, the windows opened and stairways, you go up and down beautiful marble staircases in high school. Our teachers had command of what they taught and were legendary. I mean my father had teachers I had and my sister had those same teachers. Those teachers were here for twenty, thirty, forty years. You know, educating all of us. I remember Mrs. Fosters English classes, legendary, loving learning how to diagram census and having to watch Shakespeare on TV as part of our assignment for a week once those programs happened, and I really missed having art classes after elementary school, they didn' ; t think art was important. GS: They didn' ; t offer it as an elective back then? CE: Nothing, nothing at all. GS: That' ; s a shame. CE: So I started writing more and yeah I longed for it, I missed it a lot. GS: I' ; m sure you did, I' ; m sure. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to the churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to the First Baptist church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you don' ; t remember GS: No CE: I think you remember, I remember the beautiful stained glass windows, having little pencils in the pews so I would draw pictures on the bulletins, I remember the wonderful choir music from the youth choirs and the adult choirs, I remember the wonderful dinners in the church basement, I remember the Sunday school teachers who might have you over to their house, who would be especially nurturing, I remember wonderful socials in the summer where you' ; d have delicious cakes that everybody made and homemade ice cream. So that' ; s what I remember about churches. GS: Were your parents involved in the church? CE: Yup, my parents were involved in everything GS: Did your mom sing in the choir? CE: No GS: Okay, or your dad? CE: No GS: Okay, what were the weddings like back then? CE: Well everyone went to Harvests (ph) Jewelry Store to register what kind of china and silverware pottery they wanted GS: Uh-huh CE: There were big wedding dressed and bridesmaids and grooms and--I think much too much was made of getting married after women got out of school or college, although at the same time they were beginning to gear us as women for professions, that wasn' ; t the overall message of the society at the time. That' ; s when it was really beginning to change. GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt' ; s doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay CE: And Dr. King made all kinds of house calls in the country and everything. In fact, I remember one time, I think it was [Indecipherable] someone would set, you know Doctor King was that kind of country doctor that you went out to see the patients no matter what, no matter what kind of weather or what--and he would always use one of the water towers as a guide to getting him back home. GS: Oh my goodness CE: You know the water towers weren' ; t always here GS: No CE: I don' ; t know the history of them, but they weren' ; t always GS: No CE: But I remember that story. Another great thing about living in a small town or any place were you are for a while, even if you leave then come back, which I did and gone for a long time, you learn stories that tied other stories ten years ago, twenty years ago, and it' ; s always an interweaving of the stories that we tell, which is really the great thing about having oral history GS: It is a wonderful thing about it, and I can see that in these interviews interweaving and looping, I love it. Did we have a hospital in Bristow back then? CE: I remember the old hospital which was behind where the homestead clinic is today, was on 8th street, the Siscler (ph), I think it was Siscler I think that was the name of it. I remember Kay James was born there cause my mom went to be with Laban (ph), my mother and Laban were good friends, I remember going to the doctor there and sitting in the waiting room there, and then of course the new hospital was born. And the new doctors building was built, which is where--Doctor Kent' ; s office is where the creek county health department is now. GS: Okay. Do you ever remember being hospitalized as a child? CE: When I was a senior in high school, that summer I started getting terrible pains in my belly, and then I would just double over almost, and they couldn' ; t--doctor Kent couldn' ; t find out what it was so my mother took me to Doctor King, the old doctor that my great grandmother had, and he was in an office upstairs on main street. I remember walking up the old stairs and he started thumping on my belly ' ; cause older doctors would thump on your body and they would look at your fingernails, they would examine your body carefully. And he would make an X where I said ' ; ouch' ; or something, and then he connected them. He did this with an old fountain pen. GS: Wow CE: And then about a week later, Saint Francis hospital had just been built, and he told my mom, my parents that he was sending me to a young surgeon and the young surgeon decided I needed to have surgery and they did surgery when I was--a week after I was football queen GS: Ohh CE: In high school. And at the time you were there almost two weeks GS: Oh my goodness, did they find out what it was? CE: Yes, appendicitis and a few other things GS: Well it' ; s wonderful they got it before that appendix burst CE: It is GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You' ; ve mentioned some grocery store, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I' ; ll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Café, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Busches CE: No, no. Yeah, south. Then there was Strongs, and then there was the Stanford Clothing shop, and then let' ; s see, there was a Ford Hardware store on the corner, and then there was--and then I remember Woolworth (ph), ton of fun, Patens (ph) next to Woolworth, more fun for kids since it had toys and everything in there GS: Between seventh and eighth street CE: Right, and then the banks. American National bank, and then the small grocery store was kind of between sixth and seventh, between right up here near sixth street GS: Sixth and seventh then probably CE: And then Shamus' ; s GS: Yes CE: And let' ; s see, oh Redbird, the shoe store GS: Yes, yes CE: I mean that was between sixth and-- GS: I think CE: Fifth GS: Fifth, yes CE: Okay ; no, sixth and seventh GS: Okay CE: Yeah, okay. And then let' ; s see, Tropes Service Station (ph) which was out on the highway, so--Oh Harvest (ph) Jewelry was on the west side, Silvers was on the east side, Kemps drug store on the east side, the movie theaters on the east side, the Princes Theater and the Walmer (ph), The Hamburger King at the end of the corner GS: Did you ever eat there? CE: No, that was an adult place. GS: Oh okay CE: We ate at the Dairy Queen that first came near the railroad tracks and you got your first ice cream cone with the chocolate on top GS: Oh yes CE: Oh and then there was the Ice House GS: Yes CE: Across the railroad tracks, so that' ; s what I remember GS: Okay, that' ; s pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn' ; t have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I love plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house GS: I did not know that CE: With a bar and the mirrors and everything, so all--a lot, every little girl in my group of girls, we took ballet in town for several years. And we continued to dance our whole lives with Wanda, kind of like Jennifer is now. When we got older in high school, the future teachers we would put on dance skits and Wanda would choreograph them and we would have male dance partners. So we were dancing all that time too. GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful. How did you decide, well let me back up. What did after you became an adult, what were some of the jobs that you had? CE: When I was at Oklahoma State University when I was studying my masters, I was a teaching assistant, I taught freshman English for several years there. And then I went to Oklahoma City and I got a job being a public relations officer for the state department of [Indecipherable] GS: Now you' ; ve mentioned your love of art, how did you interweave art into your lifestyle? CE: Well at different times it came out. I think I didn' ; t really realize how missing it was in my life until I went to New York city after I left the department of libraries in Oklahoma City, I went to live in New York City and worked for a publishing company, children' ; s book publishing on 5th avenue. GS: Okay CE: I see it' ; s red GS: It' ; s still doing good CE: Okay, and so I was taking care of my neighbors plants and I came upon this book called The Natural Way to Draw, and it' ; s a classic still that' ; s used by the art students and I began drawing again [Indecipherable] things in that book, and then I met this artist in Central Park from Spain, a painter from Spain, and he--I really loved his paintings, the first time I was really in an artist' ; s studio, all these beautiful paintings he was doing and everything, and I wanted him to teach me how to paint. Also when I was studying here with Pete, when the first time I ever touched oil paint or paint I loved it, loved how it smelled, loved mixing it up, I loved everything ; brushes. So in New York, he said " ; I' ; m not gonna teach you how to paint until you have to learn the basics, the language of drawing, you have to go study anatomy and life drawing. If you can do that for a year, then you can come back and we' ; ll start painting" ; . So I went off to the National Academy and started studying anatomy and life drawing and it was very hard because I was in my 30s and my drawings looked like I was 5 years old. But after I was there, then I' ; m like " ; How am I gonna remember these big long names and skeleton and these people are drawing these beautiful figures and what am I doing?" ; . But after about a month, I started getting this very strong feeling that I was longing to know this, and then the final day of that summer class, we went and I said " ; You just got to do your best at your drawing" ; and all of a sudden, this figure popped up on my page and I' ; m like--and then another one and then another one and I' ; m like " ; Where did this come from? Did I make this?" ; and that' ; s when I got this real strong sense that art was something that I missed in my life a long time and I had studied English, my native language, for over twenty years and that I needed to study art for at least ten years to get myself a basic vocabulary of art and that' ; s when I really got the strong sense of truly being an artist and what it meant to feel that. GS: Now I know that you' ; ve used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Mura building affect you personally? CE: I think that' ; s two different questions so I' ; m gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There' ; s fine art and there' ; s commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it' ; s a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future' ; s gonna be. You never know that it' ; s gonna be based on money or how you' ; re gonna survive. You train yourself in the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you' ; re going to become, you don' ; t have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that' ; s happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- GS: And what year was that? CE: The Oklahoma City Bombing happened on April 19th, 1995. I was in New York City at the time, I' ; d been living in New York since 1974. GS: What took you to Oklahoma City? CE: Not Oklahoma City GS: Or not Oklahoma City, New York City, sorry. CE: Well I had been living in Oklahoma City before I went to New York City GS: Okay CE: What took me to New York city, my life took me and youthfulness took me. There' ; s no rhyme or reason, my life needed to change and I' ; d been on this national public relations committee, I' ; d been a very young judge, I had put together public relations campaign for the Oklahoma Department of Libraries, and it won a national award, and part of winning a national award from the American Library Association was ten judges who' ; d won those awards for that year were brought to New York City in the summer for one week to judge all the public relations efforts of the American Library Association. GS: And you fell in love with it. CE: And not that way, no. GS: No? No? CE: That was a very nurturing experience, but something about the city itself drew me there in a time in my life when I needed a change in my life and that' ; s what I did. GS: Very good! Okay so you were in Oklahoma--I keep saying that, you were in New York City when the Murrah building was bombed CE: Yes, I was and a friend of mine, I' ; d gone to my local diner where I had breakfast in the mornings, and someone at the counter mentioned to me " ; Carole, a bomb went off in Oklahoma City at a federal building, what happened?" ; . Well I didn' ; t listen to television all the time or the news either. When I was in New York city, studying art and being part of the life, that was a lot of what I did. And so I said " ; I don' ; t know" ; . So when I got home, I said " ; Well maybe the FAA" ; , that' ; s the only federal building I knew of, I remembered and then I went home and a friend of mine called me, a friend of mine who' ; s a classical pianist and told me about the bombing and what had happened and that children were killed and he was very affected by it, and kids started playing music that composers had written for their children, piano composers. And it affected me, learning this. And well I couldn' ; t get through to Oklahoma on the phone GS: I' ; m sure CE: For over 24 hours, I couldn' ; t call my parents or anything. So I just started writing. I just started writing. And I wrote for 24 hours, I mean off and on, the next morning I went to the diner again, I had known then what happened. Then I walked home and that--when I walked home after all that 24 hours of writing, that' ; s when I sat down and wrote the poem, the 19th of--no it' ; s called the 20th of April 1995, cause it' ; s about the Oklahoma City Bombing, but I wrote it the next day. And wrote it almost in its entirety, straight out. And just--and it was as I wanted it to be and then there was kind of like, you know I did those drawings and they popped up on my page from that cabinet. The poem was similar, they often talk about--often times an artist feels like they' ; re a vehicle, you know, for something to come forth from you, and sometimes those things happen and it' ; s very special. And then--then I started, I' ; d taken the Oklahoma Flag with a small Oklahoma flag, I always thought the Oklahoma Flag was so beautiful. I had it on my wall in my apartment all the time I was there, and then I decided to make a series of drawings with the Oklahoma Flag to go along with the poem I' ; d written. So I took the Oklahoma flag and I rolled up an American flag I have on one of those wooden sticks and I stapled the Oklahoma flag to it and I carried it first to central part and I sat it down some few places trying to saw it. It didn' ; t seem quite right, but there was this shared knowledge of what had happened in Oklahoma City and kind of a quiet in the city, and people would see the Oklahoma flag walking by and they' ; d stop. They didn' ; t know, and they' ; d start talking about the bombing or something. And so I ended up rolling, taking the flag and finding the place in the tulip beds of fifth avenue, nope, yup, the tulip beds of fifth avenue. Is it fifth avenue? I' ; m not sure, square the streets, the streets are on both sides and the tulip beds go down the middle. And so I started doing a series of drawings of the flag in the tulip beds, and it was April, I continued to draw the flag for almost a year. That' ; s when I started working at the Oklahoma City Bombing and I called it the Oklahoma City Project because in studying, I' ; m more of a project person too. Like when John Lennon died, I was at Parsons at the time. I first started off with sketches at the Dakota building that night after he was killed. Then I went into Central Park for the memorial service and did a great big charcoal drawing of the crowd. Then I took the feeling of that crowd into making sculpture in the studio at Parsons ; clay sculpture, steel sculpture, doing interviews. I knew that I wanted a final project and it took a year before the final project came, which was a painting. Usually when I do a final project, it' ; s kind of like when I wrote that poem. You know, I' ; ve written pretty hard for twenty-four hours, couldn' ; t get what I wanted. Then the next morning I went for a walk and got away from it and came back and wrote the poem, same thing with the John Lennon project, I' ; d been working a year on different mediums and ways with John Lennon, I did John Lennon and the thing is, it stays with you, it doesn' ; t leave. GS: Right CE: Okay, and so I knew " ; Okay I wanna do a final painting" ; so I put everything away and one day I put all the work away for a couple of days to sort of ruminate and then I made this painting of my three muses walking around with a hole in them. Not gory, but and then on a peace symbol that was on the ground and sort of colors in the sky like a Van Gogh painting. GS: Yes CE: And that was the final, that was the final work. And so then you know it' ; s done, so that' ; s what fine art is like. You can' ; t predict it, you just have to be trained in it and trust yourself to know certain things, not give up. GS: So how did your talent there get applied and how did you become even more involved in the Murrah building bombing memorial? CE: Oh well that went on for years, and the way it went on was I continued to do the drawings, entered the design contest, came back to Oklahoma a number of times to visit the site for the design contest and whenever I' ; d come home and visit my family, I would go there because it was still inside working on it and there were different parts of it, it was pretty big. And then I went to the--took me a while before I could go the memorial itself, but I went to the dedication, I think I moved back to Oklahoma at the time just had moved back to Oklahoma. And I was always able to get it--I knew how to get press passes, so as an artist it' ; s interesting--it' ; s good to get a press pass if you can. You know, I did that often times with the Woody Guthrie thing, so I went to the dedication and sat with the CNN film crew under the bleachers and then when they had the first Oklahoma City memorial marathon, I went there I think when Rena was running in that. And local people from Bristow were running in it, Chris may have been one of them too, Chris Watt. And so it' ; s sort of--tried to take it to different places at different times, and it would get a certain way then stop, so I have all this material, huge [Indecipherable] material, and it just kind of came to a standstill after that. GS: And you' ; ve been good enough to share that material with us here at the museum. We were going to do a display of a lot of your material and the communities reaction to the Oklahoma City Bombing this last April on the 20th anniversary but COVID stopped that. Tell me about the-- CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don' ; t remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I' ; m very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I' ; m always getting back involved with it. Well after I' ; d been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that' ; s right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I' ; d been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I' ; m not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela' ; s back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I' ; ve written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- GS: It was probably already memorized CE: [Indecipherable] I remember my old speech days at Bristow High School, so I can train to do those things. And so he said " ; Well I want you to be an ambassador for New York and come back to the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony in November of 1995" ; , November the magic month here we are. " ; And I want you and a guy from New York is gonna be honored [Indecipherable] and he' ; ll be coming too" ; so that' ; s how I got there, I was--he invited me to come in November of 1995 to present the poem and it was gonna be televised on [Indecipherable] it was, it was filmed. And there was a large audience, my parents were invited, it was a huge affair, the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony is a big deal every year in Oklahoma. That and that--so a friend of mine in New York City who knew how to find beautiful dresses at in great places, she graduated from the fashion institute in New York, she found that dress. GS: Oh it was a beautiful dress CE: It' ; s a beautiful dress. And so I brought the dress, carried it on the plane, it was a [Indecipherable] plane. So when the [Indecipherable] crew learned what I was doing because there were, they were very touched by it all because one of those [Indecipherable] planes, something happened to it off the coast of New York before Oklahoma City, and so you know I had an all-expenses paid trip, a beautiful hotel-- GS: Wow CE: My sister sent beautiful flowers in my room, you know you go to the Oklahoma--we had rehearsals in the Oklahoma City auditorium, I had a dressing room with a big star on my door, I had an assistant, and we rehearsed. It was a big show and then I always remember my mom got me the--she got these blue rings to match and you know, Trace Kelly (ph) and Polly were there, people were in tuxes and everything. I remember right before it was time to go out on stage, I always think this is interesting with acting, you remember your lines, you remember your lines [Indecipherable] ready to go on the day and you get real nervous. I remember I looked at Jimmy when we were standing on stage, the stage lights were on and the ceremony was rolling, and I looked at him and said " ; I don' ; t know if I remember" ; . He looked straight me straight in the eyes and said " ; Yes you do, you' ; ll do just fine" ; and he pushed me right out there. In that beautiful blue dress. So that' ; s-- GS: Well I' ; ve seen your picture, you looked beautiful in that dress. CE: So that' ; s where it came from GS: You did ; alright we' ; re going to switch now. I don' ; t think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we' ; re gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that' ; s a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it' ; s better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn' ; t mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone' ; s else' ; s point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. GS: Right, right. What are your memories of World War II? CE: I wasn' ; t born. GS: That' ; s true, you were just born at the end of it. You said your father served in World War II? CE: He did GS: Do you have--what branch did he serve in? CE: My father was in the navy GS: Okay, was he on one of the carriers? CE: Daddy was on the Princeton GS: The Princeton, I forgot to turn off that telephone, let me do that real quick. CE: He was on an aircraft carrier. GS: The aircraft carrier, Princeton. CE: Right GS: Okay, let me just turn this off so we don' ; t have that again. Okay, and did he--how long did he serve in the navy? CE: Again I don' ; t know ; I think he went in I think two or three years GS: Okay, and you mentioned that he went to Korea then? CE: Yes, he was called back into Korea. GS: So he had gotten out of the service but then was called back in CE: He was GS: Okay, do you know what he did in the Korean war? CE: No GS: Okay. What was that like for you with your father gone off to war as a child? CE: It was scary because you' ; re a young child with an older sister and you don' ; t know, you see your mom being very very sad and your dad leaving, and then you--then we went to live with my mother' ; s parents in Texas, they moved to Texas because my grandfather Brigo worked for Martin Marietta (ph) and we lived with them for a while then we came back to Bristow. GS: We' ; re gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn' ; t have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let' ; s see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It' ; s a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there' ; s something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don' ; t have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. GS: Right CE: And nurture your community as a whole so that children, especially so that children don' ; t see such a divided world and see the value of [Indecipherable] your ideas and your philosophies to create a better community for everyone. GS: I love that, I love that. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation, and how do you think they could be solved? CE: One of the biggest problems now is to think that whatever channel or little google thing we bring up--I' ; m not looking at this-- GS: No I' ; m just making sure everything' ; s still going well CE: Whatever social media channel or television channel or place we go to get our opinions, if that causes us to freeze up and hate other people, I think there' ; s something quite wrong with that. That' ; s very detrimental to the whole human being--the value that human beings have for nurturing one another, so that human beings grow and survive in a healthy way. GS: What do you think we could do to solve that? CE: I think we each have to take a step back and look at ourselves and see how are we doing that and how are we contributing to that, and to watch ourselves when we get caught up, because we all get caught up. We can step back, but we so easily get caught up again, I do. GS: Right CE: And so I have certain things I do every day or every couple of days that sort of I say keep your feet on the ground to help me do that with my own self. GS: That' ; s good. Is there anything else that you' ; d like to tell me today? CE: I' ; m very glad that everyone at the historical society worked so hard to get the grants in the first place, and to continue to find more grants to fund the oral history project, and for everyone who' ; s worked on it during the COVID time. And that I' ; m just really grateful for everybody' ; s efforts to add this wonderful element of oral history to our town. GS: Thank you very much. You' ; ve mentioned COVID, how has COVID affected you this year? CE: Dramatically, I' ; m not able to give tours at the Gilcrease museum, I' ; m not able to come here to the historical society and volunteer and sit in the board meetings, I' ; m not able to go among the people that I' ; m normally with and sit with them, not everybody wears a mask all the time, especially in our town and it' ; s kind of scary. My sister is in late stage cancer, and it affects whether or not I can go see her or not. GS: I understand CE: I' ; m in the older category of people, so I have to remember that and wear my mask and social distance and wash my hands all the time, and the hardest thing is not being able to see my sister when she was in rehab and not being able to visit people that need you in hospital and rehabs when they' ; re your family and you can' ; t go and nurture them. Not being able to hug people physically when everybody needs to be touched and feel love by hugging or at least seeing our families whenever we want to. Like even now, coming into the office here was emotional. I didn' ; t need to be emotional, but it was emotional because I' ; m able to sit here with you and have a conversation like we did before March-- GS: COVID CE: Of 2020 GS: And I have found that to be the case with several people I' ; ve interviewed. They have been so thankful for the companionship of someone else to talk to. It' ; s a sad time we' ; re going through. Well Carole, thank you so much for this CE: Thank you Georgia, this was a pleasure GS: I have learned so much and we appreciate you and everything you' ; ve done in our community so very much. CE: Well I appreciate you too and all that you all are doing to keep this going GS: Thank you Carole CE: Alright GS: Alright then. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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2900
Location
The location of the interview
Bristow, Oklahoma
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
64:15
Interview Keyword
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“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
sod house, statehood, home life, school, hospital, stores, art, Oklahoma City bombing, First Baptist Chuch
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Title
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Carole Ellis
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art.
Identifier
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OHP-2020-09
Date
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2020-11-12
Format
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
art
Bristow Public Schools
First Baptist Church
home life
hospital
Oklahoma City bombing
sod house
stores
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/1420b19c29f7c338ac251e05873b3f56.jpg
d1324e003ba0724b53fec50b347c5fff
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carolyn Webb
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml
OHMS Object Text
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contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 September 14, 2020 Carolyn Webb OHP-2020-02 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Carolyn Webb Georgia Smith MP3 OHP-2020-02 Webb. Carolyn 1:|59(6)|81(10)|101(7)|122(14)|167(9)|207(5)|230(13)|249(14)|284(16)|327(7)|343(6)|394(2)|409(9)|448(13)|482(7)|512(11)|536(6)|577(7)|622(11)|629(7)|658(9)|693(13)|716(6)|744(11)|763(14)|816(6)|857(2)|892(2)|925(5)|936(2)|965(14)|1024(4)|1080(7)|1111(5)|1170(2)|1221(2)|1256(4)|1301(6)|1346(17)|1383(5)|1428(9)|1455(8)|1487(7)|1524(2)|1575(2)|1602(12)|1641(14) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-02 Webb, Carolyn.mp3 Other audio 0 Childhood and Memorable Businesses GS: This is Georgia Smith continuing Carolyn Webb’s interview. Today is September 14th, 2020 and we were interrupted by the battery going dead on the recorder again. So we’ve replaced a new batteries and we’re going to concentrate on her restaurant experiences that her family owned, and her recollection of the businesses because this woman has those Main Street businesses down. So that’s going to be our main concentration here as we go back into finishing this interview. So I’m gonna move this over here and okay. I’ll sit over here. So Carolyn we were talking about when you were a child and you— your dad bought the restaurant there on North Main. What was the name of that restaurant? CW: Stacy’s Café. GS: Stacy’s Café. By the way is that where you got the name for your son? CW: Yes— GS: Stacy? CW: —he’s named after my dad. GS: Okay. CW: Yes. GS: Very nice. Tell me, about how old were you when your dad got the café? CW: Probably five or six. GS: And what are your recollections of that time? Bank ; Bud Goodroad ; California ; City Hall ; Clara Bond ; Creeco Mill ; Farr's Taxi Service ; Ford's Hardware ; Frank Henshaw ; Hank Titus ; Huey Gay ; Inez Bishop ; James Neighbors ; JC Penny's ; Julian Pearl " ; Whitey" ; Masters ; Kenneth DeMoss ; Lloyd Frump ; Main Street ; Mr. Bishop ; Mr. L.L Farr ; Mrs. L.L Farr ; Pete Foster ; Pool Hall ; Railroad ; Stacy's Cafe ; Steve Bond ; Train ; Whitey's Cafe Buildings ; Buisness ; Cafe ; Childhood ; Memories https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/32034922/james-jay-neighbors James Jay Neighbors https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363654/clara-eldora-bond Clara Eldora Bond https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410365/lawrence-l.-farr Lawrence L. Farr https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410362/elva-l.-farr Elva L. Hill Farr https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25121032/lloyd-frump Lloyd Frump https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766187/franklin-s.-henshaw Franklin S. Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21273679/inez-bishop Inez Benton Bishop https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21799239/julian-pearl-masters Julian Pearl " ; Whitey" ; Masters 1224 Business School and Work GS: Okay. Alright, and before the tape went dead, we talked about you went to school here, you graduated from Bristow. You went to grade school at Washington. CW: Yes. GS: What year did you graduate? CW: ’57. GS: In ’57. CW: Uh-huh. GS: And what did you do after graduation? CW: I went to a business school in Tulsa. GS: Okay. CW: Uh-huh. And I rode back and forth with my cousin, Jimmy Masters (ph). He— he had several people riding to Tulsa with him and I paid him to drive back and forth to Tulsa. He let me out at the business school and then after school, I worked there too after I was out of classes. Mailing out envelopes and stuff like that for ‘em so I worked for part of my— GS: Schooling. Aaron Willeford ; Business School ; Chamber of Commerce ; Farm Center Building ; Garment Factory ; Jimmy Masters ; Lonnie Mcgall ; M& ; P grocery store ; Oklahoma Natural Gas ; Ruby Holloway ; Stationary Company ; The Department of Agriculture ; Tulsa ; Washington School ; Women's Lib Business School ; Chamber of Commerce ; Jobs ; Oklahoma Natural Gas ; Women's Liberation ; Working https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182271/ruby-iona-holloway Ruby Iona Holloway https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92693227/aaron-isaac-willeford Aaron Isaac Willeford 2543 Bristow Businesses GS: Oh okay. Okay. Alright, so anything else on any of that you wanna add? CW: I’m sure there is, I could talk your leg off. GS: (Laughter) Okay. Do you want to go back to naming the businesses or not? CW: Yeah! GS: Okay. CW: If you’re interested in that. GS: Yeah. I think that’s a good thing for us to have. CW: Okay. GS: You wanna start back down there from Third— CW: Mm-hmm. GS: —and Main at the railroad tracks. Just— we’ll start with the Ice Plant, I guess. CW: Okay, well the Lumber Yard was the first commercial building there at First— I mean Third and Main. GS: Okay. American Airlines ; American National Bank ; American Trailways ; Barbra Lee ; Bolin Ford real estate ; Bonnie's Beauty Supply ; Bush's Highway Cafe ; C.R Anthony's ; Cahil's Drug Store ; Candy Schop ; Chevrolet Garage ; Community State Bank ; Conoco Filling Station ; Cunningham ; Doc Smith's Drugstore ; Eddie Nesser ; Edison Elementary ; Glen Cliff ; Greyhound Bus Station ; Ice Plant ; Joe Mounce ; JT Woods Insurance Office ; Kemps Drug Store ; Lebanese ; Lumber Yard ; Lyons Cafe ; Mont McGehee ; Mr. Parrot ; Mrs. Masco ; Playmore Pool Hall ; Pop Arthurs Grocery Store ; Princess Theatre ; Red Bird Shoe Shop ; Red Wallace ; Rexall Drugstore ; Rosemary LeForce ; S& ; M Drugstore ; Safeway ; Schoolyard ; Sears ; Silver's Men's Dress ; Slyman's Grocery Store ; Stanford's Dress Shop ; Steven T. Ayers ; Stone's Hardware ; Strong's Grocery Store ; Syrian ; Tabbouleh ; Tex Slyman ; The Club ; The Globe Dress Shop ; The Gold Eagle ; The Harvey House ; The Public Library ; Thorpe Grocery ; US Capitol ; Walmur Theatre https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19543521/jinkey-joe-mounce Jinkey Joe Mounce https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26834675/charles-montfort-mcgehee Charles Montfort McGehee https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204570/eddie-nesser Eddie Nesser 2741 Memories Of Bob Webb GS: Now you haven’t told me much about you and Bob. Do you have any favorite memories you’d like to share that you and Bob have done here— CW: Oh yeah! Well I’ll tell you— GS: —in Bristow or whatever? CW: This is when I was a junior. I couldn’t date until I was sixteen. My daddy was really strict and anyway one time, Donna Cash (ph) the one that had the— her mother was the school teacher at Slick. And we would go riding on Sundays. I’d go with them sometimes, and one time we went out past Newby and she said, “Now Carolyn, there’s where you— that’s who you oughta date.” and I said, “Who?” and she said, “Little Bobby Webb.” GS: (Laughter) CW: And I said, “I don’t— well I don’t really know ‘em.” and she said, “That would be somebody good for you to date.” Because her daughter already had a boyfriend that was in the band at Stroud. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so I started looking him up at school and I thought, oh yeah, he is nice. So I asked my girlfriend, to ask her boyfriend, to ask Bob to ask me out for the FFA, 4-H— I mean FFA, FHA party. And so he did! GS: Ah! CW: And that’s how we got together. Yeah. GS: Ah and so you were dating in high school? CW: We dated three years before we got married. GS: Okay. 4-H ; Bob Webb ; Donna Cash ; FFA ; FHA ; Stroud 2839 Autographs GS: Yes, you are. Anything else you can think that you want to tell me that maybe wasn’t related to any question I ask? CW: Oh gosh, I don’t know. GS: Any famous people come to Bristow that you met or— CW: Oh I was gonna tell you, I always kept a autograph book and I still have one of ‘em. GS: Oh how fun. CW: And so I have— in fact it’s in the house. I’ve got a autograph book that’s got a bunch of the railroad men have signed it. GS: Oh! CW: Yeah! GS: That’s wonderful. CW: I’ve—they’ve—and of course I have people sign it. So I’ve got a bunch of the railroad men signing it. And then when I was in junior high I had Tom— oh the folk singer, Tom Paxton. GS: Yes. CW: For some reason, I got his signature ‘cause he was in the high school band and I’d just start— was in the junior high. I got his signature. GS: Well that’s cool! CW: So when he came back to Bristow a few years ago, I got his signature on the same page again. Yeah! Autograph Book ; Railroad ; Tom Paxton Autographs ; Railroad ; Tom Paxton In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Carolyn Webb (CW) Other Persons: Bob Webb (BW) Date of Interview: September 14th, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith continuing Carolyn Webb' ; s interview. Today is September 14th, 2020 and we were interrupted by the battery going dead on the recorder again. So we' ; ve replaced a new batteries and we' ; re going to concentrate on her restaurant experiences that her family owned, and her recollection of the businesses because this woman has those Main Street businesses down. So that' ; s going to be our main concentration here as we go back into finishing this interview. So I' ; m gonna move this over here and okay. I' ; ll sit over here. So Carolyn we were talking about when you were a child and you-- your dad bought the restaurant there on North Main. What was the name of that restaurant? CW: Stacy' ; s Café. GS: Stacy' ; s Café. By the way is that where you got the name for your son? CW: Yes-- GS: Stacy? CW: --he' ; s named after my dad. GS: Okay. CW: Yes. GS: Very nice. Tell me, about how old were you when your dad got the café? CW: Probably five or six. GS: And what are your recollections of that time? CW: Oh, I enjoyed it. My mother worked out there too, so I was up there most of the time. They-- I knew all the people that came in for coffee and to eat. The (Indecipherable) was just around the corner and down the street from us. So they came up for-- all those men came up for coffee and I remember so many of ' ; em. Hank Titus' ; s (ph) daddy was in there. Mr. Neighbors, James Neighbors that taught at the school. He worked there in the summertime. Anyway, they would all come up for coffee and pick at me and I loved it. And-- GS: Was he a pretty young man back then? CW: Oh yes. He was a very young man, probably hadn' ; t been teaching very long and then also, Creeco Mill wasn' ; t far from our café. And some of the people in there came up for lunch and I remember the Mayes (ph) boys. They were hard working farmers and they worked down at Creeco Mill for Pete Foster and Bud Goodroad and I can remember what they ate every day. They came in at noon, they' ; d eat a bowl of stew and a cold steak sandwich. GS: Ah! CW: ' ; Cause they worked so hard. GS: Yeah. CW: I remember so many of the people up there. Mr. Ford that had Ford' ; s hardware that lived-- that was just a few blocks down-- or a few stores down from us. He came in for coffee. Clara Bond, she was the secretary there. She came in for coffee, so many of the people came in-- GS: Was she a young woman? CW: Oh yes, uh-huh. GS: I think they lived on Third Street for a while. Did they-- did she live on Third Street with her son Steve Bond? CW: Now this lady did not have a son, she wasn' ; t married. GS: Okay, this is a different Bond then. CW: She was-- yeah, she was-- Kenneth DeMoss' ; s aunt. He was-- anyway there was just so many people that we knew everybody up and down that block for sure. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. CW: One of my friends, her daddy had a pool hall-- well I guess it' ; s called a pool hall-- across the street off of Eighth and Main on the north side. And when-- she was my age, a year older and we played together a lot and (Cough) excuse me. When they didn' ; t have customers in there like in the day time, I would go over there and she and I would play shuffle board, and we would play in the (chuckling) in their store room. And-- GS: Oh, how fun! CW: I know it was just-- GS: How fun! CW: --like a big family all in one block. GS: Now where was that restaurant located? CW: The one that we had-- GS: Stacy' ; s. CW: --Stacy' ; s. Okay, it was right on the alley across from what is the cleaners now? On north Main. GS: The Clean Bean? CW: Yes. It' ; s right across the alley from there. Uh-huh. GS: Okay. Okay. CW: Yeah, it was-- that was the busiest place you ever did see. That whole block. GS: I bet it was. CW: And there was-- on the alley where The Clean Bean is? GS: Uh-huh. CW: There was, right behind it was Farr' ; s Taxi Service. GS: Okay. CW: And they had a fleet of taxi' ; s I don' ; t remember how many-- GS: Wow. CW: Yeah! It was and Mr. and Mrs. L.L Farr -- I believe. And I rode around with the taxi drivers. GS: Oh my goodness! (Laughter) GS: You did have a fun childhood! CW: I did! I did! And you know, we didn' ; t think a thing about it. I' ; d ride in the front seat with them and then they would be just. They were busy all day in the evening and I just-- something to do instead of staying there in the café. GS: Yep, yep. CW: And you know, you didn' ; t worry about anything like that. GS: Yeah. CW: I just rode around in that smoky car. Everybody smoked back then. And felt like I was real uptown, you know. GS: (Laughter) CW: So-- GS: So how old were you when your dad left that café and went to the Golden Eagle? CW: I think I was probably twelve, something like that. GS: Okay and where was-- CW: Ten, maybe, maybe younger. GS: Where was the Golden Eagle located? CW: Okay. On the corner of Sixth and Main it' ; s where the D& ; D Office Supply is now. GS: Okay. CW: Oh and that was a great café too because it was busy all the time since Main Street went right through. The railroad men came and ate in our café regularly. You know, they had a stop there. GS: Uh-huh. CW: The trains were going by all the time and they picked on me. (Laughter) CW: This is a funny story. One time I was walking down to the-- down Sixth Street to the skating rink and I' ; d been working at the café all day and then I was getting ready to go skating that evening. So, this had been a Saturday night, so I got down there as far as the railroad tracks and the train men all got off the train and one of them picked me up and threw me over his shoulder. GS: (Laughter) CW: And I was screaming and a kicking all the way carrying me clear back up to the café. GS: (Laughter) CW: I was so mad because I had to walk that extra half a block! (Laughter) CW: But that' ; s the kind of life I had. It was-- GS: Ah! CW: --I mean I couldn' ; t have asked for anything any better. GS: No, I don' ; t think you could. CW: And then at night, I would-- the City had a contract with daddy to furnish the dinner for the jail, the guys in jail. I hate to call ' ; em prisoners, but anyway-- ' ; cause they was locals. But anyway we would fix up a dinner plate full of really good food and a little type of a tin cup for their coffee and I would carry that up to the jail. I would go up the alley from Sixth Street up the ally to Eighth Street on the ally to the jail. And the jail and the fire station was all in one little bitty office there. And I would carry that in and then I would sit and visit with Huey Gay (ph), he was the Chief of Police and of course that' ; s a little smoked filled room too. And then Lloyd Frump was the fireman-- Fire Chief. GS: Now was that at Eighth and Main where City Hall was? CW: Yeah, it was right behind the City Hall building. GS: Oh, it was behind City Hall? CW: Uh-huh. Right behind it. GS: Okay. CW: Before you get to the alley. And I would carry their dinner up to those prisoners and then I would sit there and visit with Huey (ph) or Lloyd Frump until they' ; d get through and then I' ; d take the dishes back to the café. And sometimes it would be dark in the winter time and man I' ; d run down that alley because my sister would tell me-- said, " ; If those jail men see you, they' ; re gonna come and get you when they' ; re out of there." ; GS: (Laughter) CW: So I would run in the dark back to the café with those-- GS: Very ornery sister. CW: Yeah, yeah. GS: Were you afraid when you were there at the jail? CW: Oh no. No, I was-- I was at home in the-- GS: Yeah. CW: I' ; d sit there in the chair with-- in that little ole smoke filled, one room talking to whoever was in there, the policeman or you know. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. CW: Back then you didn' ; t have to worry about anything-- GS: That kids have-- CW: --out of line-- GS: --to worry about today. CW: No, no, no. (Indecipherable), I mean everybody was my friend. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: Yeah. GS: That' ; s a wonderful time to have grown up. CW: Oh, I was lucky. Yeah. GS: Yeah. Okay, so any other café experiences before we start on the Main Street businesses? CW: I remember-- I remember the customers. I' ; m a tell you about this one because his-- Mr. Henshaw, Frank Henshaw. He was a really nice gentleman and he was the night watchmen at the county barn south of town and he came in every morning after he would get off, midmorning and every morning he ordered liver and onions. GS: (Laughter) CW: And he left me a ten cent tip. He was so nice. GS: Ah. CW: And he has family still here in town, that' ; s why I' ; m bringing his name up. GS: Okay. CW: Anyway, just wonderful family, the Henderson' ; s-- Henshaw' ; s. GS: Henshaw' ; s. Was that with an H-I or an H-E do you know? CW: H-E I think. GS: H-E. CW: Henshaw, yeah. And oh another customer that we had that was interesting was Inez and Mr. Bishop. Anyway, they were probably the wealthiest people in town. They had their own little bank in a real old two story building behind Penny' ; s at that time. GS: Okay. CW: Yeah, we borrowed money from ' ; em. That' ; s how I know they had a bank (Laughter). Anyway, they came in and ate in the evening on their way home. And they always ordered a bowl of stew and a piece of pie and they ate their pie first in case they got full, before they finished their stew. It was just, you know it was just wonderful memories I have of all these people. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: So. GS: When did your dad leave the restaurant? CW: We had to close it down because daddy' ; s health was really bad-- GS: Ah. CW: --and the café needed a lot of repair work and we couldn' ; t get the owner to do the repairs. He lived in California and we didn' ; t know him, and we didn' ; t even have conversations with him. He used a realtor here in town and daddy just couldn' ; t stand that realtor-- GS: Hmm. CW: --and anyway. Because she wouldn' ; t see about getting anything done so we just had to close it. We didn' ; t sell it or anything. GS: Didn' ; t sell it-- CW: We just had to close. GS: Ah. CW: Uh-huh. GS: That' ; s sad. CW: Yeah! It was. GS: Part of history gone. CW: Yeah, and then I started working for my uncle that had the café on north that we used to have. Whitey' ; s Café GS: Okay! It was in the same location, okay. CW: Yeah. GS: I didn' ; t realize that. CW: Uh-huh. GS: Okay. CW: It was the same one and I worked-- I' ; d run down from the school and work for my lunch and I was telling-- we had the honor system. Uncle Whitey would cook up a whole bunch of hamburgers, put ' ; em in a basket right next to the cash register. Then he would run the cash register and high school boys, or whoever would grab their hamburgers and pay and leave, and that' ; s on the honors system. And there wasn' ; t a whole lot of honor to it. But that was-- GS: So he gave out a lot of free hamburgers, didn' ; t he? CW: Yeah. Yeah he sure did. But that' ; s what-- GS: He was good hearted. CW: That' ; s what I did for my lunch and then I worked for him on a Saturday. All day on Saturday. Oh let me tell you this. In the kitchen-- of course that was back before we-- it was little bitty dive, so we didn' ; t have dishwasher or anything. We had just tubs with actual flame underneath it for the heating the wash water. GS: Oh wow! Uh-huh. CW: That' ; s where I washed dishes, you know. So I' ; d wash dishes in there and one day I had on a real full skirt and my skirt caught fire. GS: Oh, my word! CW: Yeah, the wind blew my skirt under that and caught fire. GS: Oh my goodness. CW: And I just whacked it out with my hands. (Laughter) CW: And kept working. Mother later was able to-- it was a big full skirt. She was able to patch it. She of course, she had made it for me. GS: (Laughter) CW: That' ; s just stuff that happened, you know. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. That' ; s a wonderful story. CW: Oh, I' ; ve got a million. I' ; ll run another battery out for ya! GS: (Laughing) I hope not, ' ; cause I didn' ; t bring another set. Okay, so did we get your uncle' ; s name that you worked for that had the café? What was his name? CW: Whitey Masters. GS: Whitey Masters. CW: Uh-huh. GS: Okay. Alright, and before the tape went dead, we talked about you went to school here, you graduated from Bristow. You went to grade school at Washington. CW: Yes. GS: What year did you graduate? CW: ' ; 57. GS: In ' ; 57. CW: Uh-huh. GS: And what did you do after graduation? CW: I went to a business school in Tulsa. GS: Okay. CW: Uh-huh. And I rode back and forth with my cousin, Jimmy Masters (ph). He-- he had several people riding to Tulsa with him and I paid him to drive back and forth to Tulsa. He let me out at the business school and then after school, I worked there too after I was out of classes. Mailing out envelopes and stuff like that for ' ; em so I worked for part of my-- GS: Schooling. CW: --business school. Uh-huh. GS: Well good and so what did you do when you finished that? CW: Oh, I was so lucky. I went to work at the gas company. GS: Oh, very nice. CW: Yeah. I was in the restroom in the business school. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And I just happened to be in one of those-- GS: The right place at the right time. CW: Yeah, at the right time. GS: (Laughter) CW: And I heard two of the ladies-- two of the girls that were in school too, talking about-- there was a new job opening at Oklahoma Natural Gas and they were gonna-- one of ' ; em was gonna go up there and see about it tomorrow. So soon as they got out of there, I got out of there and I went up and applied for it, and I got the job. GS: And where was that? In Tulsa? CW: Yeah, it was downtown in Tulsa. Big, beautiful building and I loved-- I worked there for a year and I just loved it. GS: Ah. CW: But this was before-- and then I got married while I worked there and then got pregnant and this was before Women' ; s Lib this is hard to believe. GS: (Laughter) CW: I worked on the first floor in the sales department as the secretary. But you could not wear maternity clothes on the first four floors. So when I was four months pregnant and started wearing maternity clothes, I had to leave. GS: Oh. How. Ridiculous. CW: I know it! I know it. And anyway, we moved and Bob got fired from his job. He worked for a stationary company. GS: Oh! CW: There I was, four months pregnant, got fired, and Bob was fired. We moved back to Bristow and Lonnie Mcgall (ph) had the M& ; P grocery store, hired Bob. And-- but I was able to draw unemployment because they had to let me go. GS: They dismissed you. Yeah! Because heaven forbid you looked pregnant! (Laughter) CW: I know! And oh I loved that job so much. GS: Ah. CW: They were really good people and every month they would take-- they called ' ; em the ONG' ; s they' ; d take a nice big air conditioned bus full of the women that worked there, out to country clubs for lunch and stuff like that once a month. GS: Oh how nice! CW: Yeah. I was really-- GS: Yeah. CW: Oh, I thought I was big time wearing my Springolator shoes-- GS: (Laughter) CW: --high heels flopping around. But that' ; s how we moved back to Bristow. GS: Okay and so what did you both do once you got back here in Bristow. CW: Well I had-- I had the baby and Bob worked at the M& ; P. GS: And that was Robby right? CW: Yeah, Robby. And then I went to work at the Garment Factory. GS: Okay, so your husband had the M& ; P? CW: He worked there. GS: He worked at the M& ; P Grocery Store. CW: Yeah. Uh-huh and then I went to work at the garment factory and got a babysitter and she was wonderful. Ruby Holloway, in fact she ended up raising all three of my kids. GS: Wow. CW: Yeah. She was like their grandma. But I-- when I was working at the Garment Factory, I got fired. Well they-- they called it laid off. If you worked three months, you could get in the union. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so you-- they let me go before I got in the union. I wasn' ; t good at it anyway. Run a needle through my finger and had to have the girl next to me back it out. GS: Oh! CW: And I wasn' ; t good at it, so. GS: Oh. CW: And I thought the world was gonna end. I thought, we' ; re gonna starve to death. GS: Ah. CW: But, it was the best thing every happened to me. And then later I got a job at the Chamber of Commerce. Worked at the Chamber of Commerce and I enjoyed that. Then I found out about the job with the USDA-- The Department of Agriculture out at the Farm Center Building and luckily I got that job. And so I worked there thirty-three years. GS: I remember that job! CW: Yeah, yeah. GS: (Laughter) CW: So, I' ; ve been really, really fortunate, you know. GS: You have been. CW: Yeah. GS: You have been. So when did-- didn' ; t Bob have the grocery store where the daycare center is now on South Chestnut? CW: Yeah. He worked at the M& ; P and then where Williams is now-- GS: Yes. CW: --they moved down there and well that was-- the M& ; P caught on fire. GS: Okay. CW: And one evening. And the next morning-- yeah he was working there, yeah. How' ; d that go? I should have him tell you all that. Anyway, he and his mother went in and bought the grocery store, Bob' ; s Grocery on South Chestnut. Aaron Willeford did own it. We bought it from him. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And Bob and his mother ran that. Yeah. GS: Okay and how long did you have that store? CW: I don' ; t know, it-- several years and Bob built on to it and made it larger. He can tell you more about that. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: But anyway, we' ; ve been lucky our whole lives. We' ; ve been fortunate. GS: Okay, what did Bob do after he got rid of the store? CW: Then he went in-- he became a salesman for institutional type foods, yeah. GS: Oh okay. Okay. Alright, so anything else on any of that you wanna add? CW: I' ; m sure there is, I could talk your leg off. GS: (Laughter) Okay. Do you want to go back to naming the businesses or not? CW: Yeah! GS: Okay. CW: If you' ; re interested in that. GS: Yeah. I think that' ; s a good thing for us to have. CW: Okay. GS: You wanna start back down there from Third-- CW: Mm-hmm. GS: --and Main at the railroad tracks. Just-- we' ; ll start with the Ice Plant, I guess. CW: Okay, well the Lumber Yard was the first commercial building there at First-- I mean Third and Main. GS: Okay. CW: And then across from that. GS: Just north of it. CW: Just north was the Ice Plant. GS: Okay. CW: And after the railroad tracks was Hamburger King then there was a tin shop there. Patsy Humphrey' ; s husband ran that. GS: Mm-hmm. CW: And then across the little driveway ally there was the J& ; J. Then north of it on the same street was-- there was J& ; J Sundry that some of the Abraham' ; s ran. And later it was a laundromat. GS: Oh okay. CW: Yeah, so it-- GS: I don' ; t remember that. CW: And then even later than that it was import export thing that some people had. Okay, now across the street north, there was a little bitty building there and it used to be-- some people had a little photo shop where you' ; d go in-- GS: Oh is that what was in that? CW: Yeah. It was little tiny-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: --building. And then there was a business office. I think Mr. Earnhardt (ph) had it. I think he was like in the oil business or something. Then there was the feed store, Sukovaty Feed Store. And then there was Brouse' ; s Shoe Store and then there was a grocery store-- well shoot I can' ; t think of that man' ; s name, Syrian. And then Mr. Cash (ph) had a resale shop there. I think it' ; s mostly just a place for him to park. He had a big rocking chair right in the middle of the front door and sat there (Chuckling). GS: Oh how fun. CW: And he slept some and he may have sold some I don' ; t know. GS: (Laughter) CW: Then there was the café north of it called the " ; You need a lunch" ; . GS: I think that' ; s a hilarious name-- CW: Yeah. GS: " ; You need a lunch" ; . CW: And then next to it was Thorpe Grocery and next to Thorpe' ; s Grocery was Pop Arthurs Grocery Store and then our Café. GS: The Golden Eagle. CW: The Gold Eagle. GS: Gold. I always want to put that E-N on there. CW: That' ; s alright. GS: There is no E-N. It' ; s Gold Eagle. CW: The Gold Eagle. GS: Okay. CW: And then across from it north across the street was Stone' ; s Hardware and Henderson' ; s had a furniture store in there for a while. And then there was Lyons Café and then there was Cahill' ; s Drug Store and then there was the Walmur Theatre and I was trying to think what was next to it. Maybe the Playmore Pool Hall was there. And Rosemary LeForce' ; s daddy ran that-- GS: Okay. CW: And Mr. Cross very nice gentlemen. He used to drink coffee in our Gold Eagle Café. And then next to it was Doc Smith' ; s Drugstore right on the corner. GS: Okay. CW: Across the street from Doc Smith' ; s Drugstore was the play-- it was called The Club. It was a (Indecipherable) pool hall and it opened catawampus in the street. GS: Uh-huh. CW: That' ; s where my daddy and his brothers hung out-- GS: (Laughter) CW: I love telling this story. And my grandma called it the " ; Glory Hole" ; and she was always wanting it to burn down. She would pray it would burn down-- GS: (Laughter) And it did didn' ; t it? CW: It finally did but I don' ; t think she did it. (Laughter) CW: Anyway, next to it was a café called The Harvey House. GS: And that' ; s not related to the-- CW: No. Not-- GS: -- Harvey House associated with railroads-- CW: No-- GS: --right? CW: There last name just happened to be Harvey. GS: Okay. CW: So they took advantage of that. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then next to it Mrs. Masco (ph) had somewhere in there, she had a candy shop. A little bitty candy shop. GS: Well. CW: All kinds of candy. GS: Okay. CW: I don' ; t-- I' ; m talking about hard candy, you know. GS: Right. CW: Not chocolates or anything. GS: Yeah. CW: Anyway and then there was the drug store called the S& ; M Drugstore. GS: K. CW: And next to it Mr. Parrot (ph) had a-- there was two-- two automotive stores there side by side. GS: And we' ; re between Seventh and Eighth street now, aren' ; t we? CW: Yes. GS: Yes, I thought so. Okay. CW: Yes. Uh-huh. Had those two stores and then there was the Princess Theatre. GS: Yes. Uh-huh. CW: Okay, and then next to the Princess Theatre right on the corner was Kemps Drug Store. GS: Okay. CW: And across the street north was Penny' ; s. GS: Yes. CW: Oh wait, I told you wrong. Ms. Masco (ph) had that little-- that little candy shop was up there next to Penny' ; s in a little-- little breezeway type thing. GS: Oh it was next to Penny' ; s? CW: Yeah. GS: Okay. CW: Instead of in the other block. Yeah. There was Penny' ; s and then there was Ford' ; s hardware and then there was a machine shop type thing. I don' ; t know-- in there. There was some people had that rented, I guess he fixed small machines, lawn mowers and stuff. GS: I' ; m just gonna decline that. I' ; m sorry it' ; s going off I should have done that. CW: Should I keep going? GS: Yes, go on. CW: Okay, and then next to that was JT Woods insurance office. GS: Okay. CW: And I think that' ; s maybe where Bolin Ford is now. And then right next to that was our little Stacy' ; s Café. GS: You mean the Bolin Ford real estate? CW: Real estate. Yeah, real estate. I' ; m-- yeah and then we had Stacy' ; s café next to that. GS: Okay. CW: And across the ally north from that was-- I don' ; t remember what was in that first building. I know-- well Farr' ; s had that and I think their oldest son Sandy Farr and his wife and baby lived in that-- what' ; s The Clean Bean now. GS: Okay. CW: And down below that-- well let me finish. Next to The Clean Bean or next to that was another grocery store-- GS: Okay. CW: --if you can imagine. (Laughter) CW: And then-- GS: Lots of grocery stores. CW: Yeah, and then next to that was Joe Mounce' ; s-- GS: Now we' ; re between Ninth and Tenth now. CW: Yeah. GS: Aren' ; t we? CW: And Joe Mounce' ; s on the filling station and all. And it' ; s still standing there. GS: Okay. CW: Okay, back behind where Farr' ; s lived-- that little couple was Farr' ; s Taxi Stand. And they had a fleet of taxis. GS: Hard to imagine in Bristow. CW: I know. Probably three big fleet. Anyway, they stayed busy all the time. GS: Wow. CW: And L.L. Farr and his wife, they were really nice people. And I rode around, because I was in the café all the time-- for something to do, I rode around with the taxi men. GS: (Laughter) CW: I' ; d ride up-- GS: I just can' ; t imagine that. CW: Yeah! I rode in the front seat with ' ; em and of course the taxis were all smoke filled, you know. Everybody smoked back then. GS: Yeah. CW: And I thought it was just wonderful. And we would-- I' ; d ride with them to pick up their affairs. And anyway, we just-- I had the best childhood anybody could have. GS: Oh, it sounds like you did. Oh! This is very nice. Carolyn' ; s husband just brought in a certificate and a flag. It says, " ; The flag of the United States of America. This is to certify that the accompanying flag was flown over the US Capitol on September 15th, 2017 at the request of honorable Barbara Lee, member of congress. This flag was flown in honor of Bob and Carolyn' ; s eightieth birthdays and appreciation for their love of family and friends. The love, care and attention to the farmlands you are blessed to call home, and your dedication and commitment to your community and country are highly appreciated. You are truly Americans." ; And it was signed, Steven T. Ayers, architect of the capitol. That is very nice and that is a huge flag. BW: And I' ; m gonna hang it for the first time now. GS: Oh! How awesome. I' ; ll have to get a picture of it. (Laughter) CW: Our kids had that done for us. GS: Oh how wonderful! CW: Yeah. GS: Well that was a very nice tribute. I didn' ; t know you could do such a thing. Okay, so we were between Ninth and Tenth. CW: Okay. (Laughter) I don' ; t remember what the building was. It was-- at one time it was Chevrolet Garage. GS: Oh, yes. CW: Okay. GS: And I should remember, before Cunningham' ; s-- CW: Yeah. GS: --I should remember who had it, but I don' ; t at the moment. CW: I don' ; t either. And there was a business office in there somewhere. Mont McGehee had. GS: Okay. CW: And then-- oh geez, I don' ; t remember. Okay. GS: Yeah, okay. So-- CW: That' ; s as far as I go. GS: --let' ; s jump across the street now to the west side. Can you remember anything on the west side? CW: The library. GS: Yeah. CW: Yeah. GS: At Tenth and Main? CW: Tenth and Main. Yeah, that was the Public Library. GS: K, and we' ; re gonna go south. CW: Coming down Main Street south, okay. Was the library, and the school--the schoolyard. GS: Yeah. CW: And then across the street from that-- GS: And that was Edison Elementary-- CW: Edison. GS: --right? CW: Edison, yeah. GS: Okay. CW: And then across the street-- okay, across the street from that was, I think it was called Glen Cliff (ph) there was a ice cream store there. GS: Yes. CW: When we were young. GS: Uh-huh. CW: Uh-huh. And next to it south was Bush' ; s Highway Café. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then their locker plant was next door to that. GS: I' ; ve forgotten about that. CW: And then Strong' ; s Grocery Store. GS: And Shoe Store. CW: Well the shoe store was next to the grocery store. GS: I did not know that! CW: I think they were maybe brothers. Yeah, there was a grocery-- GS: No, I have heard that-- CW: Okay. GS: --now that you said that. CW: Yeah, Strong' ; s and then the grocery store, and then there was Eddie' ; s-- I think the name of it was Eddie' ; s café. It was-- GS: Eddie Nesser CW: Nesser! Yeah. Nesser' ; s Café and that' ; s where everybody would go-- I don' ; t-- he was Syrian-- GS: Yes. CW: --or Lebanese, whatever. And that' ; s where we would go to buy the little sacks of tabbouleh wheat. GS: Okay! CW: And make tabbouleh. That' ; s-- GS: Okay. CW: That was the outlet there. GS: I didn' ; t know that-- CW: Yeah. GS: --they sold that. I interviewed them for our Lebanese display and that didn' ; t come up-- CW: Oh yeah! GS: --so that' ; s interesting-- CW: You could go in there-- GS: --to know. CW: Yeah. You' ; d go in there and buy just a little sack full. Enough to make a tabbouleh. GS: Well. CW: And then after that was the Stanford' ; s Dress Shop. GS: Yes. CW: And after that was the place I said my friend had-- daddy had the pool hall there. And when they weren' ; t busy we' ; d go in there and play shuffle board and stuff. GS: (Laughter) CW: And then next to it was the-- the grocery store, Safeway. GS: Was Safeway not on the east side? CW: Hmm-mm. GS: It was on the west side first? CW: It was on the corner where the-- GS: I' ; ll be. CW: --doctor' ; s office is now, that was Safeway. GS: Okay, and now I guess later on in years it moved over to the-- CW: Uh-huh. Yeah. GS: I' ; ll be ; I did not know that. CW: Yeah, that was Safeway. And oh, what' ; s the name of those people that they both passed away now. Did so much for our town, her daddy ran it. The big place out west of town? Anyway it was-- his name was Red Wallace (ph)-- GS: Okay. CW: --that ran Safeway. GS: Okay. CW: And okay then, across the street from that I remember it didn' ; t go way, way back but it was Bonnie' ; s Beauty Supply-- GS: Yes. CW: Beauty Shop at one time. GS: Yes, I remember Bonnie' ; s. CW: Okay and then the Jewelry Store was-- GS: Harvats-- CW: Yeah, it was Searcy' ; s before it was Harvats. When I was a kid it was Searcy' ; s. GS: How do you spell that? CW: I don' ; t know. S-E-R-C-Y. I don' ; t know. GS: Okay. CW: But I' ; ll tell you who it would-- Todd-- I' ; ll be darn. GS: I hate it when I can' ; t think of names. CW: I know it. I know it. GS: And it happens a lot. CW: Todd Herman. GS: Okay! CW: It was his grandparents. GS: Okay. CW: Were the Searcy' ; s. GS: I' ; ll be. CW: And they had that jewelry store. And then there was the bakery. GS: Yes. CW: And then BF Goodrich. GS: Where the parking lot is now? CW: Yeah. BF Goodrich and it was a big busy place. GS: Yes. CW: And, let' ; s see. GS: Wasn' ; t there a dress store? CW: Oh, The Globe. Wait, well first was-- GS: Patton' ; s? CW: Wait, first was Woolworth (ph). GS: Yeah. CW: It was Woolworth. GS: Yeah, Woolworth. CW: Yeah and then Patten' ; s was next door to Woolworth. Yeah. GS: Yeah. CW: And the grocery-- and the-- I guess. Oh! Next-- well hmm. The Globe Dress Shop was there. GS: I was thinking The Globe was the block before, but I guess I' ; m wrong. CW: This is between Eighth and Seventh. GS: Seventh, okay. Okay. CW: Isn' ; t it? GS: So-- CW: Wait, am I getting mixed up? GS: Okay, Harvats is between Seventh and Eighth. CW: Mm-hmm. GS: Was The Globe next to Harvats? CW: No, I think you' ; re right. GS: It was on up there by Strong' ; s wasn' ; t it somewhere? CW: Huh-uh. GS: No? CW: Could you stop a second, let' ; s see. Anyway, somewhere along in there was Woolworth was-- GS: Yeah. CW: Great ole big store. GS: It was between Sixth and Seventh. No, Seventh and Eighth, sorry. It was between Seventh and Eighth, Woolworth was. CW: Okay, well then The Globe was next to that. GS: Okay. CW: And then there was the Man' ; s Clothier next to that. GS: I don' ; t remember that one. CW: Yeah it was Silver' ; s Men' ; s Dress-- Men' ; s Store. GS: Okay. CW: And The Globe and Silver' ; s were both Jewish people that had upper class-- you know, clothing was more expensive. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then there was the law offices. Arthurs, McMillian-- GS: Okay. CW: Blackstock-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: Okay, then go across the street on the other side was the American National Bank. GS: At Seventh and Main? CW: Seventh and Main. GS: On the west side? CW: Yeah and next to it was the Rexall Drugstore. GS: Mm-hmm. CW: Next to it was Anthony' ; s. C.R. Anthony' ; s. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then there was the barber shop in there. GS: Yes. CW: Hmm. GS: OGE was on the corner wasn' ; t it? CW: They were on the corner but there was something in between there. GS: M-kay (Inaudible) CW: At one time there was a dress shop in there called Mode O' ; Day. GS: Yes. Was it Sears maybe? CW: No. GS: No. CW: No, Sears was across the street in one of those-- about where Lyons Café was or something. GS: Oh. CW: You know. Anyway, then across the street south was the Community State Bank. GS: At Sixth and Main? CW: Sixth and Main and going south was American Café and there were Shamas' ; s on that farther down. GS: Yes. CW: And there was a little café called Mrs. Knot' ; s Café. And there was a little bar there. GS: I remember that. CW: Uh-huh and I may have left something out, but on the corner was Tex Slyman' ; s mother and daddy' ; s grocery store. GS: Oh! CW: On the corner-- on the corner of Fifth and Main. GS: On the north side of Fifth and Main? On the north side of-- CW: Uh-huh. GS: Uh-huh. I' ; ll be. CW: Yeah. GS: Where the parking lot is now. CW: Yes, that was-- GS: Okay. CW: --Slyman' ; s Café. GS: Okay! CW: I mean not café-- GS: Grocery-- CW: --Grocery Store. GS: Okay. CW: Then across the street was-- on the corner of Fifth and Main was the filling station. Conoco Filling Station. And then next to it, he had a big place where he had rubber tires and stuff. Mr. Price did and then next to it was the bus station, the Greyhound Bus Station. And next to it was a big filling station. Maybe their name was-- I don' ; t know. Anyway, there was a big filling station there on the corner. GS: Uh-huh. CW: Of-- GS: Fourth and Main. CW: --Fourth and Main. Mm-hmm. GS: Well gosh, that' ; s a wonderful memory. CW: Yeah. GS: I-- you had to grow up on Main Street-- CW: Oh yeah! GS: --to be able to remember all of that. CW: ' ; Cause I walked it every day. GS: Yeah. CW: You know. GS: I couldn' ; t tell you what the businesses were-- CW: Yeah. GS: --up and down Main. When I was a kid-- I mean when you' ; re talking, I can recall some of it. CW: And I remember now another place too, I left out both of them. On the east side along there by the Walmur Theatre was-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: Shoe shop. GS: Oh! CW: And it was Wenzloff. She used to work at the high school as a librarian. Wenzloff Shoe Shop. It' ; s called Angel' ; s. GS: Okay. CW: And I think that was because that was his wife' ; s maiden name, and maybe her daddy had it before him. GS: Before him. CW: And across the street from it, I left that out. By Anthony' ; s was Red Bird Shoe Shop. GS: When you said the Angel-- CW: Yeah. GS: -- Shoe Shop, I thought of Red Bird. CW: And then there was the Barber Shop in there too. GS: Okay. CW: Down from the Red Bird Shoe Shop, so there was just businesses everywhere. GS: Now in old phonebooks--and of course this was well before your time. But in old phone books it showed that we had a lot, like eleven hotels but they were small, you know. CW: Mm-hmm. GS: Were there many motels, hotels when you were around-- CW: No. GS: --growing up? CW: There was one on-- Thurman' ; s had one on Fourth, off Main Street. You know, a couple blocks. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then they had made the big one and up on north Main. GS: Yeah. CW: But, Bristow was just wonderful-- Bristow. One thing I left out about out Gold Eagle Café. It was also a bus stop for the American Airlines. American Trailways, I think it was called. And The Greyhound was the busiest one. But some people took the trailways and mother sold tickets there in the Gold Eagle for it. And if she would have someone that had bought a ticket, she would put a red bandana hanging out on the awning and that would signal for the bus to stop and pick up a passenger. GS: Oh how-- CW: I know it! GS: --isn' ; t that neat! CW: Yeah. GS: Just a red bandana. CW: Yeah, that was a hanging on our-- that left-- and of course he' ; d park right in the middle of Main Street to, you know. GS: To pick ' ; em up (Laughter). CW: Uh-huh! Yeah. So that was interesting. I don' ; t think anybody' ; s had a better lifetime than I have. GS: I don' ; t think they have either-- CW: I really don' ; t. GS: --Carolyn. I don' ; t think they have-- CW: And I' ; m just starting. I could go another hour or two. GS: Oh I know you could. CW: (Laughter) GS: Now you haven' ; t told me much about you and Bob. Do you have any favorite memories you' ; d like to share that you and Bob have done here-- CW: Oh yeah! Well I' ; ll tell you-- GS: --in Bristow or whatever? CW: This is when I was a junior. I couldn' ; t date until I was sixteen. My daddy was really strict and anyway one time, Donna Cash (ph) the one that had the-- her mother was the school teacher at Slick. And we would go riding on Sundays. I' ; d go with them sometimes, and one time we went out past Newby and she said, " ; Now Carolyn, there' ; s where you-- that' ; s who you oughta date." ; and I said, " ; Who?" ; and she said, " ; Little Bobby Webb." ; GS: (Laughter) CW: And I said, " ; I don' ; t-- well I don' ; t really know ' ; em." ; and she said, " ; That would be somebody good for you to date." ; Because her daughter already had a boyfriend that was in the band at Stroud. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so I started looking him up at school and I thought, oh yeah, he is nice. So I asked my girlfriend, to ask her boyfriend, to ask Bob to ask me out for the FFA, 4-H-- I mean FFA, FHA party. And so he did! GS: Ah! CW: And that' ; s how we got together. Yeah. GS: Ah and so you were dating in high school? CW: We dated three years before we got married. GS: Okay. CW: Yeah. GS: Okay. So-- CW: Oh, I gotta show you something funny here. This is a scrapbook I' ; ve got. This is a Valentine I got for him years-- when we were first married. Anyway, the Valen-- the card itself isn' ; t that exciting. GS: Uh-huh. CW: But he never paid any attention, he wasn' ; t real sentimental. I gave him the same card for over twenty-five years. (Laughter) GS: And he never noticed? CW: No, he didn' ; t know. And one day he looked on the back and he said, " ; I didn' ; t know you could buy a card like that for fifteen cents?" ; and I started laughing-- GS: Oh my word! CW: --and so he found about me. GS: Oh, that' ; s hilarious-- CW: Yeah. GS: --Carolyn! CW: Yeah. GS: That is too funny! CW: So we had a good time. Yeah. GS: (Chuckling) Yes, you have. CW: And we' ; ve been married sixty-two years. GS: That was my next question (Chuckling). CW: Yeah, yeah! GS: That' ; s wonderful. Three kids and sixty-two years later. How many grandkids? CW: We only have four. GS: Four grandkids. CW: One daughter and three grandsons and they' ; re just wonderful. GS: Ah. Well that is wonderful CW: Yeah. GS: Do they live around here? CW: No. One of them-- well two do. Robby' ; s two oldest boys, Tyler (ph) and Brian (ph). Tyler' ; s (ph) an engineer and lives in Tulsa and Brian (ph) lives here with his mother out east of town. GS: And I taught both of those. (Laughter) CW: And then our other two, we have a grandson in Phoenix that' ; s going to the University of Arizona, Aedan (ph). His mother is-- she was born in the United States, but she' ; s Korean. GS: Okay. CW: So he says he' ; s half Okie and half Korean. And then Sue has one daughter and she' ; s graduated from out in California and she' ; s hoping to be a lawyer. She' ; s working in a-- GS: Oh. CW: --law office and wants to eventually take her test to become a lawyer. GS: Oh, that' ; s very admirable, good for her. CW: Yeah, so we' ; re fortunate. GS: Yes, you are. Anything else you can think that you want to tell me that maybe wasn' ; t related to any question I ask? CW: Oh gosh, I don' ; t know. GS: Any famous people come to Bristow that you met or-- CW: Oh I was gonna tell you, I always kept a autograph book and I still have one of ' ; em. GS: Oh how fun. CW: And so I have-- in fact it' ; s in the house. I' ; ve got a autograph book that' ; s got a bunch of the railroad men have signed it. GS: Oh! CW: Yeah! GS: That' ; s wonderful. CW: I' ; ve--they' ; ve--and of course I have people sign it. So I' ; ve got a bunch of the railroad men signing it. And then when I was in junior high I had Tom-- oh the folk singer, Tom Paxton. GS: Yes. CW: For some reason, I got his signature ' ; cause he was in the high school band and I' ; d just start-- was in the junior high. I got his signature. GS: Well that' ; s cool! CW: So when he came back to Bristow a few years ago, I got his signature on the same page again. Yeah! GS: Oh, how marvelous! CW: Yeah, so-- GS: Yeah, that' ; s very special. That' ; s very special. Well Carolyn, I' ; ve enjoyed this tremendously. CW: Oh I have too, and I wish you' ; d come back and we' ; d start all over again. (Laughter) GS: Well I tell you what, if you want to sit in with Bob' ; s, when we do Bob' ; s-- CW: Okay, ' ; cause I wouldn' ; t let him sit in on mine. (Laughter) GS: Yeah, I noticed that! (Laughter) GS: Maybe you could add a little bit into his. CW: He' ; ll probably run me off too. (Laughter) GS: Well thank you so much, Carolyn. CW: Oh I love you. I' ; d love to give you a big ole hug but we can' ; t-- GS: I know, but we better not. End of interview The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.’s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. audio The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml
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Title
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Carolyn Webb
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow.
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OHP-2020-02
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2020-09-14
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audio
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/7458576b2256960266608938b37dd941.jpg
e63d20283fc90287b998fe93091e12c7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Pinehill Histories
Subject
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History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
Description
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Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Type
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Oral history.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-01_Carrie_Vann.xml
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Pinehill
school
fairs
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5.4 OHP-0001-001 Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann OHP-0001-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. History of Pinehill Community Pinehill school fairs Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|36(2)|68(7)|103(12)|121(5)|141(15)|181(9)|206(9)|222(4)|242(2)|269(2)|294(3)|307(8)|320(4)|341(2)|371(2)|400(13)|424(16)|461(1)|498(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0001-01 Vann, Carrie.mp3 Other audio 0 Spelling Bees and School CV: Which was the most dangerous—water or fire. BM: Yeah. CV: You know, fire killed [inaudible]. MM: Well I can’t think of what [inaudible] Memories of spelling bees and school in the Pinehill community Charlie Dressler ; Ellis Head ; Floyd Wilson ; Howard Baker ; Mosquiter Creek ; schoolhouse ; singing ; spelling bees ; Virgil School ; Spelling Bees 235 Teachers and getting into trouble BM: Uhh, what about those spankings? (tape interference) CV: Well, in the evenings, y’know, we’d all walk home together on the road ‘til we’d get to Mosquito creek, or sometimes I would go on with a bunch up to the next corner, on the south up there where we lived. BM: Where the other school that—where the first schoolhouse was. CV: Yeah. And--well not hardly that far. And momma, she kept tellin’ me not to do it, to come on home. And one evening I—told me not to do that no more. Next evening I did, I went up there and I got a whoopin’ when I got home. (laughs) Memories of getting into trouble as kids and the first teachers of Pinehill Edith Whiteneck ; Ethel Logan ; school ; teacher school ; teachers 389 Death of Alvin Hicks CV: Yeah, I think that’s the way it was because I know, uh, we didn’t live down there too long ‘til we moved up here on this [indecipherable] and, uh, he was teachin’ school— BM: He was teaching school when— CV: Well when my brother got killed. Alvin. BM: When Alvin got killed, well, he was the teacher there then. That was Alvin Hicks. Okay, then After Alvin Hicks there was who. Carrie Vann speaks on the death of her brother Alvin Hicks. Alvin Hicks ; stalk cutter ; teacher Alvin Hicks ; teacher 533 Families in Pinehill CV: And you haven’t talked to any of the Vanns, or— BM: No, uh, you’re the first, uh, we just got this thing today, got ahold of-- CV: I guess I better let [indecipherable] let them talk. BM: Well you tell what you can and on that part, I’ll come back to that, and, uh—it was after you and Virgil-- A discussion on the families living in the Pinehill community Abner Bruce ; Annie Pinehill ; buggies ; Iva Ware ; Jay Crawford ; John Wilson ; Milk ; Naomi Ballard ; Owen Ware ; Perrymans ; Phoebe ; revival ; Sally Pinehill ; sapulpa ; Sister Mary ; Smith Bruce ; train ; W.O. Baker Pinehill Families 908 Fairs BM: Tell us about this fair situation. VV: Well, I don’t— MM: Uh, Alex—you might start with Alex— VV: Well, really, I don’t know, I think Alex Myers was one of the judges, wasn’t he? Of the milk cows? CV: I don’t remember. VV: Oh yeah, I’m sure he was, uh, you can have these old timers like John or somebody can tell you more about that, but I can’t, ‘cause they—I was just a kid, you know, ‘bout seven years old. Discussion of fairs in Pinehill Alex Myers ; church ; Deep Fork ; fair ; Judges ; Pinehill Fairs 1010 Bruce Family and Playing in the Creek VV: And old Smith Bruce, I heard him talk, you know, he, he might’ve, uh, raised some big ones. All I know, I know he raised a lot of cane down there, I shipped cane for him myself. MM: Now, honey, you don’t put the ashes in her vases-- CV: No, here, right here, that’s what it’s for— VV: Now I just don’t remember anything about the watermelon. CV: Well, you wasn’t born then, when what I’m talkin’ bout— Memories of playing in the creek chicken house ; creek ; Smith Bruce creek ; rooster In this 1976 interview, Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann (1900-1982) discusses the history of the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma in the early 1900s, including the first teachers at the school and her classmates, her childhood, courting her husband Virgil Vann, social events such literaries, and the childhood death of her brother Alvin. CV: Which was the most dangerous--water or fire. BM: Yeah. CV: You know, fire killed [inaudible]. MM: Well I can' ; t think of what [inaudible] pause in recording BM: People had a lot of fun at ' ; em. CV: Yeah. pause in recording CV: You know, even the grown people would help out in those. You remember the sp--oh, you don' ; t remember the spelling bees, do you? BM: Yeah. CV: And the older folks would spell against one another, and I know my mother won one time. BM: And it' ; s, uh, the last one in. CV: Yeah, and the word was " ; recollect." ; I' ; ll never forget that word, " ; recollect." ; They all missed it but her. (laughs) pause in recording CV: Stuff like colored people. BM: Mmm-hmm. CV: [Indecipherable] but I--I just can' ; t figure out, well, Baker boy, y' ; know, that-- BM: Which one is that? CV: Howard. BM: Howard Baker. CV: Yeah, he went to school there, and then the oth--George, was it? BM: Geo--uh, Matt. CV: Matt. BM: Yeah, that--I think that picture that I was talkin' ; --I think he' ; s in that. MM: Didn' ; t they have some singing at the literaries? CV: Oh, yeah, they had just a--children' ; d say it was-- MM: Singing. CV: Oh, singing? MM: Different adults sang songs? CV: I don' ; t think we did. Only at church, y' ; know, Sunday School, but on the lit-- MM: You had church and Sunday School in the schoolhouse, too. CV: Mmm-hmm. When we moved up this country, did youse live here? In around in here? BM: Aww, see, mom and dad was, was, married here. In 19-and-19, I think. CV: Yeah, yeah I can remember when they got married. MM: Mom went to school out there. CV: Yeah, she did. BM: 19-and-12. CV: But I' ; m talkin' ; ' ; bout her momma and daddy. BM: Aww, no, they came to Oklahoma in 19-and-07. CV: Seven, well that' ; s the year, then, when we moved down here, we moved in about 1912, I think. [Indecipherable] got the schoolhouse and then Charlie Dressler owned the place and dad rented it from him. BM: He lived down on the Charlie Dressler place. CV: Right south of the schoolhouse. BM: Right south of the schoolhouse, that would be down-- CV: It' ; s right close to the little creek. BM: Be Mosquiter Creek. CV: Mosquiter Creek, yeah. On--we lived on the north side. BM: You had it on the north side--you must' ; ve lived in there where Ellis Head lived over there. CV: Well, that' ; s-- BM: You lived there where Ellis-Ellis and Mickey lived there for years. CV: Yeah, yeah, um-hmm, that' ; s the place we lived. And I was trying to think--Mickey and I, you know, [inaudible] Vann that year, and I remember Floyd Wilson, he was just a baby. (laughs) And, I know a [indecipherable], we' ; d pack him around, take care of him. But that--I don' ; t remember ' ; em singing, only just in church. I know they had reading, Da--I can remember--when I say " ; Daddy" ; I mean Virgil, I remember him singin' ; a song about the grasshopper, and he still knows that, it' ; s a reading, rather, you know, and he still knows that good. MM: I asked Virgil if-- pause in recording BM: Back up-- pause in recording BM: Uhh, what about those spankings? (tape interference) CV: Well, in the evenings, y' ; know, we' ; d all walk home together on the road ' ; til we' ; d get to Mosquito creek, or sometimes I would go on with a bunch up to the next corner, on the south up there where we lived. BM: Where the other school that--where the first schoolhouse was. CV: Yeah. And--well not hardly that far. And momma, she kept tellin' ; me not to do it, to come on home. And one evening I--told me not to do that no more. Next evening I did, I went up there and I got a whoopin' ; when I got home. (laughs) BM: You got a paddlin' ; when you got to the house! MM: So did the teacher ever paddle you? CV: No, I [indecipherable] BM: Well what' ; s up with the cotton pickin' ; mess that Virgil got into? CV: Well I don' ; t know, you' ; d have to ask him ' ; bout that. He--I know he was a' ; ridin' ; a horse out on the schoolground-- BM: Yeah- CV: --and, uh, the horse throwed him, and throwed him up against a tree. He hurt his shoulder, and [indecipherable] was tryin' ; to show off. BM: ' ; Tryin' ; to show off? CV: (laughs) Yeah. BM: To the girls? CV: We wasn' ; t sweethearts then, we just-- BM: Just tryin' ; to show off to the girls? CV: Yeah. That' ; s what I expect. (laughs) He' ; ll get me for that. BM: Awww, we don' ; t need to let him know ' ; bout that one. When it comes to that one, why, we just shut ' ; im off. Or let it on forward, turn the volume down where he can' ; t hear. CV: But you know the first school was Miss Whiteneck. BM: The first teacher-- CV: Edith Whiteneck. BM: Edith Whiteneck. Okay, now, then. Edith Whiteneck was the first teacher. CV: For me, I can-- BM: Okay, she was the first teacher, period, the way I understand it. CV: Yeah, I think she-- BM: Alright, uh, what was the teacher' ; s name after Edith Whiteneck? CV: Oh, let me see now, the other day I remembered. (pauses) Ethel. Ethel Logan. BM: Ethel Logan. Was the teacher. Was the teacher after Edith Whiteneck. CV: Yeah. BM: Alright. CV: I think that Edith-- BM: Who was the teacher after her? CV: A man teacher. BM: Man teacher then? After Etta? CV: Yeah, I think that' ; s the way it was because I know, uh, we didn' ; t live down there too long ' ; til we moved up here on this [indecipherable] and, uh, he was teachin' ; school-- BM: He was teaching school when-- CV: Well when my brother got killed. Alvin. BM: When Alvin got killed, well, he was the teacher there then. That was Alvin Hicks. Okay, then After Alvin Hicks there was who. CV: He was, uh, drivin' ; a one of them--cuttin' ; stalks, cotton stalks-- BM: Cuttin' ; stalks with a stalk cutter. CV: Yeah, yeah. Stalk cutter. Henry died when that--and he come home from school and he had wanted to ride on that and he got on that thing and rode by himself about a hundred foot and it went to runnin' ; (tape interference) down onto the ditch, the thing turned over and caught him and he was dead. BM: It had cut him all to pieces. CV: Yes. So, and then, I just, I didn' ; t go to school down there so I didn' ; t really know. I imagine Ivy' ; d remember what-- BM: Oh, uh, we' ; ll check with Ivy on it, too. We' ; ve got, uh, a few to go. CV: It was ' ; fore I was married, just not too long afore I was married, when she got married in sixteen? Nineteen? BM: Nineteen--you got married in 1915. So he was killed in 1915. CV: It was the thirteenth--I mean on the fourteenth or fifteenth, I think I' ; ve got it in the Bible. Ivy might know. BM: Ivy might recollect what day it was--what day it was that he was killed. CV: Yeah. pause in recording CV: --went home, you know children used to go home with children. I was with Esther Wilcox that day. (tape interference) --they sent somebody down to tell me about him. (tape interference) CV: And you haven' ; t talked to any of the Vanns, or-- BM: No, uh, you' ; re the first, uh, we just got this thing today, got ahold of-- CV: I guess I better let [indecipherable] let them talk. BM: Well you tell what you can and on that part, I' ; ll come back to that, and, uh--it was after you and Virgil-- CV: I think it was after we was married, or just before. I think it' ; s after, when they did that. MM: How did they run off and get married? CV: I don' ; t know. MM: Are they the ones that were on the train to Sapulpa and got married? CV: I don' ; t think they went very--couldn' ; t have went very far in them days they just had buggies, you know. MM: Somebody went to--who was it your momma used to tell about-- BM: Uh, I think they were married afore. CV: Uh, let' ; s see, when we first come up to this country, down there, they just got through with a revival. They had the biggest revival they' ; d had. And when--they just called her Sister Mary, the woman done the preaching, but I never did learn her name, they just called her Sister Mary. But that was before [indecipherable] BM: Yeah. CV: Grandma and grandpa did. BM: Grandma and grandpa Dot. CV: You know, uh, Mary Bly (tape interference) CV: --and uh, what else maybe I can-- BM: [Indecipherable.] CV: Oh, yeah, Smith Bruce and them-- BM: Okay, Smith Bruce-- CV: --back over here a little, and-- BM: Yeah. CV: And you folks, and Jay Crawford-- BM: Jay Crawford. CV: Yeah, and his family lived on the black--what they called the black place, a little house there in there where dad--your grandfather let ' ; em use it. And, uh, Milt and Phoebe lived there, I remember them, and uh, Sally Pinehill, I remember I went to her funeral. And, uh, Annie Pinehill, the one with the husband (tape interference). It' ; s just mostly Bruces (tape interference). BM: And what was Grandpa Bruce' ; s name, was that Abner Bruce? [Indecipherable] man Abner? CV: I don' ; t know what his name was, we just always called him Grandpa Bruce, he was always--he loved children. I used to ask him to go home with him for dinner, but I--to tell you the truth, it must' ; ve been [indecipherable] the boy' ; s names back then, mustn' ; t it? Would Phoebe know? BM: I' ; d have to talk to her. CV: They made that [indecipherable]. And Naomi Ballard went to school there. And, uh, Wilson? What was his name? John Wilson? BM: John Wilson. CV: His family, they lived there. And uh, Wares, you remember them? And then W.O. Baker and their kids went to school there. And the Ware kids went there, Owen Ware and Iva Ware. MM: What about the Perrymans, was there any of them? CV: Yes, they lived there too. MM: Yeah. CV: The Perrymans lived there. MM: Mmm-hmm. CV: And what was those kids' ; names, I can' ; t think of them-- MM: That would' ; ve been-- CV: Or Parkham, if it' ; s close enough. You know, half the [indecipherable] from down at the cemetery' ; s, it' ; s down on Pinehill, you know, in that creek, Pinehill Creek. And, uh, he died, Pinehill, Grandpa Pinehill died for, when we went to his funeral. And, uh, they put in there his lunch, in a shoebox, they fixed him a lunch, and they put his saddle and then--I don' ; t know whether it was a gun or a bow and arrow. MM: It might' ; ve been a bow and arrow. CV: I don' ; t know whether they used guns then or not, the Indians. And, let me see now. Yeah, they just packed him down there and the rest of them walked down Pinehill ' ; cause it wasn' ; t very far there. BM: I was sayin' ; to her, over in, uh, the road there that [indecipherable]. CV: Yeah. BM: Over there in the creek. CV: Yeah. [Indecipherable.] BM: Yeah. CV: Somebody told me here awhile back somebody' ; d been digging in the graves over there, I don' ; t know if that' ; s right. BM: Yeah. That' ; s what I heard. CV: That' ; s the reason, don' ; t you think? BM: Ahh, I imagine so. MM: [Indecipherable.] CV: [Indecipherable.] pause in recording BM: Tell us about this fair situation. VV: Well, I don' ; t-- MM: Uh, Alex--you might start with Alex-- VV: Well, really, I don' ; t know, I think Alex Myers was one of the judges, wasn' ; t he? Of the milk cows? CV: I don' ; t remember. VV: Oh yeah, I' ; m sure he was, uh, you can have these old timers like John or somebody can tell you more about that, but I can' ; t, ' ; cause they--I was just a kid, you know, ' ; bout seven years old. pause in recording BM: You' ; re on. You' ; re on, buddy. You' ; re on. VV: I can' ; t talk into one of them little old things. BM: No, you were talkin' ; a while ago, you were tellin' ; me all about it, and you--now you, now what about this, uh, prize that you won. VV: Well, I took, uh, I went out in dad' ; s field and got some sudan, you know, and took it up there and won first prize there at the fair. Well they bring their work horses, you know, their cows, everything, they grew everything. MM: ' ; Bout what year did it--what years did that? VV: Well must' ; ve been ' ; 28, ' ; 29, or ' ; 30, in there you know, well, we moved to Pinehill what was ' ; 33 when we moved down there was. They, we -- there to, I mean to-- CV: ' ; 30-- VV: I mean to Deep Fork. CV: It was ' ; 30 when we moved to Pinehill. VV: ' ; 30? So it must' ; ve been ' ; 28 and ' ; 29 when I went to school down there. And they even used to have fair, uh, a fair up here at this church up here, you know, uh, Liberty, okay? They had a fair there, they had one at all these little places around here, they had their own little fair. I can remember, I don' ; t remember takin' ; anything up there but I remember going up there to the fair. That' ; s when the old church sat on back west up on the hill there, you know? And I was a kid goin' ; up there. pause in recording VV: And old Smith Bruce, I heard him talk, you know, he, he might' ; ve, uh, raised some big ones. All I know, I know he raised a lot of cane down there, I shipped cane for him myself. MM: Now, honey, you don' ; t put the ashes in her vases-- CV: No, here, right here, that' ; s what it' ; s for-- VV: Now I just don' ; t remember anything about the watermelon. CV: Well, you wasn' ; t born then, when what I' ; m talkin' ; bout-- pause in recording BM: Alright, now then. VV: --and we' ; d pull it back up on the one leg and kids would get on there and ride it-- CV: --I had some things, I had a basket of the things [indecipherable] and ride it down the creek-- MM: Why was it put there?-- CV: They built it, the boys-- VV: It was up in a great big old elm tree, see-- MM: Oh you built it yourself? VV: Yeah, put a pulley on there and a seat, you know, and we' ; d pull it up there and climb up the tree and get on and ride down the creek, you know, and we had it tied to another tree and you stopped, it was just something to play with, you know. pause in recording VV: And somebody came there and broke some [indecipherable] off and took off, and that was it--we lived back over there by Smith-- CV: Well, we lived down on the corner-- VV: But he found out who it was, I think, but he just let ' ; em go, said they was hungry. CV: Way over Bruce' ; s place, well not way over Bruce, the little Pinehill' ; s place-- VV: That' ; s where your chicken house was, far away, them birds CV: (laughing) VV: Over up on that Pinehill place. pause in recording VV: Well where' ; d you live at? CV: Uh, dad lived up on what call--used to call Pike' ; s Peak, that big hill where you turn, you go down to-- VV: Way up on there on that cave? MM: Yeah, uh, dad lived up there. VV: You know, where they played ball? BM: Yeah. VV: Where it turned west? On the south side of the road just--I was up there here, I was telling Carrie it' ; s still up there, no sir, they had a mother that lived in an old cellar there-- CV: No, we lived in a tent. MM: Albert Cree (ph)-- CV: Dad had the-- MM: Albert Cree' ; s (ph) rooster' ; s who he' ; s tellin' ; -- CV: Yeah. (laughs) MM: What' ; d they do with it? CV: Oh, they--he got after ' ; em with his gun and they had to turn it loose. (laughs) Dad still tells that. VV: I don' ; t remember that. pause in recording CV: [Indecipherable] and that really got him, he said you know' ; d I didn' ; t [indecipherable]. VV: Who was that? CV: [Indecipherable] Bruce VV: Oh. CV: [Indecipherable.] end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-01_Carrie_Vann.xml OHP-0001-01_Carrie_Vann.xml
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Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann
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In this 1976 interview, Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann (1900-1982) discusses the history of the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma in the early 1900s, including the first teachers at the school and her classmates, her childhood, courting her husband Virgil Vann, social events such literaries, and the childhood death of her brother Alvin.
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OHP-0001-01
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History of Pinehill Community
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1976-10
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Georgia Smith
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Cecelia Wittman
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5.4 August 18, 2020 OHP-2020-03 Cecelia Wittman OHP-2020-03 0:00-39:14 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Cecelia Wittman Georgia Smith MP3 1:|74(6)|96(3)|117(3)|142(6)|161(2)|181(16)|196(15)|211(14)|235(8)|253(13)|277(7)|295(5)|307(10)|325(8)|340(15)|350(10)|367(3)|389(6)|405(10)|437(2)|461(14)|476(12)|517(1)|534(11)|551(9)|571(14)|608(20)|634(8)|666(8)|704(10)|728(12)|742(14)|768(9)|793(12)|815(5)|852(5)|876(9)|895(1)|915(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHO-2020-03 Cecilia Wittman.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History CW: Okay GS: Okay, I’m sorry. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historic Society’s oral history project. The date is August 18th, 2020, and I am sitting here at the museum with Cecelia Wittman, who’s going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name please. CW: Cecelia Loraine Wittman (ph) GS: What was your name at birth? CW: Cecelia Loraine Nutt, N-U-T-T GS: And where were you born? CW: In Tahlequah, Oklahoma GS: Do you remember the hospital or at home? Barbara Jean Nutt ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Cecelia Loraine Nutt ; Cecelia Loraine Wittman ; Cecelia Wittman ; Connie Sue Nutt ; Conniesenny Tiger ; Etna, Oklahoma ; George Wade Wittman ; Georgia Smith ; Hastings Indian Hospital ; Hershel Quintin Nutt ; Jeramiah Joseph Wittman ; Joe'B Nutt ; Lacricia Joe Nutt ; Martha Yarbrough ; Tahlequah, Oklahoma 235 Tiger Mansion GS: Okay, now tell me about what brought you in today to see me CW: Well I wanted to talk about my grandmother’s house that was built in 1925, and I don’t— GS: And who is your grandmother? CW: Her name was Conniesenny Tiger, she would’ve been my great grandmother, and she—this was a part of the original allotment where the house is built, and back in the—with the removal act from when everybody was removed from the southeast, they were brought here and then the, all the Indians were brought here for, which you would refer to Native Americans today, but we still say we’re Indian because we’re the natives of this time. We’re still in this era, this age group that I live in, and— GS: Was your grandmother part of the journey, great grandmother? CW: Yes, my great grandmother was. She said that she was—she was Conniesenny Bristow, Oklahoma ; Bureau of Indian Affairs ; Conniesenny Tiger ; Dawes Act ; Hannah Brown ; Indian Department ; John Wesley ; Lomus ; Lumous ; Ma Smith ; Martha Marie Brown ; Mr. Smith ; Mrs. Smith ; Original Allotment ; Porter Tiger ; Tiger Mansion ; Yuchi 1440 Indian Culture GS: You were gonna tell me a little about the Indian Culture around here CW: Oh I’m sorry about that GS: No that’s—you’re fine! CW: The culture here is still strong today, it is—there’s still ceremonial ground that is out here south of town and, which is referred to as Iron Post, or there was an original ceremonial ground that was called Sand Creek, so now younger generation refers to this particular Iron Post as Sand Creek so it’s kind of changed along the way, but there’s still thick native Yuchi culture here out of Bristow and Kellyville between here and Mounds GS: And what do they do there? CW: Oh we have our green corn ceremonial, we have green corn ceremonies here, and all of the—it’s a fasting where you fast and pray and dance and sing and all these things that you go then we celebrate with fresh green corn and tomatoes, you know, everything all of your fresh fruits and vegetables at that time of year. And it’s usually done in July and August GS: That’s—you know I’ve lived here all my life and never heard of that Absente Shawnees ; Destin, Florida ; Ethaline Washburn ; Gelenium ; Green Corn Ceremonial ; Iron Post ; Lucian Tiger ; Lucian Tiger III ; Pensacola, Florida ; Sac and Fox ; Sand Creek ; Yuchi ; Yuchi Community https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=YU001 Yuchi 1730 Memories of Bristow and Church Life GS: Okay let’s see, okay you told me that you have memories of visiting here because you weren’t raised in Bristow CW: Nuh-uh GS: But your grandmother was, your mother was? CW: And my husband was from Bristow GS: Okay CW: He was actually from Bristow from Gipsy corner, my husband was so yeah I have those families from him as well as from his family, but when I was a child, we would come back to visit his family GS: Okay CW: So— GS: So you knew his family Ah-La-Quan ; Anchor-In ; Christian ; Conniesenny ; Conniesenny Tiger ; CR Anthonys ; Ethaline Washburn ; Polly Long https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22443141/polly-ah-la-quan-long Polly Long 2093 Family History GS: Who was the last relative of yours to own that house? CW: Hannah Brown (ph) GS: Hannah Brown, and she was your grandmother? CW: Mhm GS: And she married who? CW: She married Joe Yarbrough (ph) GS: And was he Indian also? CW: Yes, but he was from—there was not no recording of that, you know back then when you got divorced or when you got mad or whatever, you just said you’re a half GS: Oh okay CW: So it was one of those deals, there was a divorce Hannah Brown ; Joe Yarbrough ; Methodist Church ; Newbie In this 2020 interview, Cecelia Wittman shares her families history in the Bristow area. She discusses the Tiger Mansion and Indian Culture. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Cecelia Wittman Other Persons: Date of Interview: August 18, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-03 at 00:00 to 39:14 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. CW: Okay GS: Okay, I' ; m sorry. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historic Society' ; s oral history project. The date is August 18th, 2020, and I am sitting here at the museum with Cecelia Wittman, who' ; s going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name please. CW: Cecelia Loraine Wittman (ph) GS: What was your name at birth? CW: Cecelia Loraine Nutt, N-U-T-T GS: And where were you born? CW: In Tahlequah, Oklahoma GS: Do you remember the hospital or at home? CW: Hastings, Hastings Indian Hospital GS: Again, you were born on what date? CW: February the 20th in 1958 GS: And what was your father' ; s name? CW: Hershel Quintin Nutt (ph) GS: And your mother' ; s maiden name? CW: Her name was Martha Yarbrough (ph) GS: And do you know when they--when and where they were married? CW: No, it was in the 1940' ; s GS: Okay, and why did they come to Oklahoma? CW: Well, my father was from out in western Oklahoma, and my mother was born here, so. GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have? CW: There was five of us GS: And what are your siblings' ; names? CW: My oldest sister was Connie--Connie Sue Nutt (ph), and she was named after Conniesenny Tiger (ph), my great Grandmother. And she was born in 1949, so. Then I have another sister, her name is Lacricia Joe Nutt (ph), and then a brother, which was Joe' ; B Nutt, it' ; s J-O-E Apostrophe B, just Joe' ; B GS: Thank you CW: Nutt, and my youngest sister, and then it was me, which I' ; m Cecelia and my youngest sister is Barbara Jean Nutt (ph), there was five of us. GS: Nice family, what did your father do? CW: He was a--a bull rider, bronc rider, he was a rodeo performer and before that, he was a jockey and--but he was raised on a cotton farm out in Etna, Oklahoma GS: How exciting, how interesting. What did your mother do? CW: He--But he was a welder--he was a welder by trade though, later on he became a welder. GS: Okay, very good. CW: The end, in the end he was a welder. My mother she was a house wife and she worked all over, she did everything and different things, but mainly she was a homemaker. But back in those days, you know, then she worked at different places along the way and she ended up retiring and working for this school system as a custodian in Glenpool, she retired there for 20 years. GS: Very--when was she at Glenpool? CW: Let' ; s see, in 1980? From 19 maybe 79, late 70' ; s till she retired. GS: Okay, okay. What is your spouse' ; s name? CW: His name was George Wade Wittman, he' ; s deceased. But it' ; s George Wade Wittman Jr. GS: Okay, and what year did you get, or when did you get married? CW: We got married August the 29th of 1989. GS: Aw, your anniversary' ; s coming up CW: Yes, it is GS: How many children did you have? CW: We had four, he had one son and I had two sons. It was both our second marriage and then between us, we had our youngest son, which was Jeramiah Joseph Wittman (ph). GS: Okay, now tell me about what brought you in today to see me CW: Well I wanted to talk about my grandmother' ; s house that was built in 1925, and I don' ; t-- GS: And who is your grandmother? CW: Her name was Conniesenny Tiger, she would' ; ve been my great grandmother, and she--this was a part of the original allotment where the house is built, and back in the--with the removal act from when everybody was removed from the southeast, they were brought here and then the, all the Indians were brought here for, which you would refer to Native Americans today, but we still say we' ; re Indian because we' ; re the natives of this time. We' ; re still in this era, this age group that I live in, and-- GS: Was your grandmother part of the journey, great grandmother? CW: Yes, my great grandmother was. She said that she was--she was Conniesenny GS: Conniesenny CW: Senny, and she was--yes she was. And my mother said she arrived here when she was 9, when she was 9 years old she-- GS: She made that trek when she was 9? CW: She arrived when she was 9, so we don' ; t know anything prior to that GS: Would you spell Conniesennys' ; name for our typist? CW: Yes, let me get the card, let me see if I brought it. It' ; s C-O-N-N-I-E-S-E-N-N-Y GS: Tiger CW: Tiger, T-I-G-E-R GS: Okay, very good. Okay well tell me about all of your memories of your grandmother Conniesenny CW: Well I have no actual memories ; I just have stories to where what is related to my mother. She was--my mother was born in 1923 and so she was raised in the house that Conniesenny had built GS: And where is that house? CW: That is actually--it' ; s 5.3, I think 5.3 miles south of Bristow, and I was told, so of course she had the original allotment, and back then you were allotted 160 acres. Each individual native American was allotted this called the Original Allotment, and she was an allottee, so this was her land and they struck oil on this land and then this-- GS: That' ; s marvelous CW: Yes, it was marvelous, and anyway according to the history, they said that what we would call the Bureau of Indian Affairs today, but it was called the Indian Department back then GS: Okay CW: Had, I guess they had their own architects and their own builders and their own people that went in and built different homes for native Americans, and she had this house built in 1925, according to History I think, I don' ; t know. GS: Was this before or after she struck oil? CW: It was after she struck oil, so prior to that, and 1889 to I think 1906 is when they had the Dawes act (ph) was in commission and they began to record the history. At that time, they each individual had their row numbers and where their allotment was and where they were enrolled at, there was a census just like it is now, the 2020 census is going on, this census was taken for the Indians. But they kept track of all the Indians at that point. GS: Okay CW: So they were allotted this land through that row number, and so they were registered and had their allotments. Actually I think their allotments were given out before the enrollment. Anyway, she was, this land was hers and she--and years later, ' ; cus she was enrolled I think in 18, in the 1890' ; s, I wanna say 1896 she was enrolled, she was already--she had already received her row number at this time, that' ; s why she was documented GS: How old was she then? Do you-- CW: It does--it says she was 45 at that time and age GS: So had she been living south of Bristow? CW: We don' ; t know where, I don' ; t know GS: You don' ; t know where CW: I don' ; t know when--I need to do some more digging and find out myself to where she--when she was actually allotted the land, I don' ; t know that part, I don' ; t know that date, and I don' ; t know what time frame there was between her--for her age, what her marriage she was, and all that type of, before she had the house built. GS: Okay CW: Because she was 45 in the late 1890' ; s and so she died in 1944 GS: Okay CW: So the house was built in 1925 GS: Okay CW: So they struck oil on her land and at that point and time, and fast forward, so my mother was raised in that house, my grandmother was born on 1905 and there' ; s a whole other history that goes with that, and so my mother was born in 1923, and her siblings, she had--there was Martha Marie and John Wesley and they were all three raised, they were Hannah Browns (ph), my grandmother was Hannah Brown and she was shown, three children were raised there in that house, which one of those were my mother. GS: In Conniesenny Tigers house CW: In Conniesenny Tigers house GS: Okay CW: And my mother was her translator because my mother had gone to school because she was a full blood Yuchi, I need to probably specify that. They were all full bloods and my mother wasn' ; t a full blood, but my grandmother, my great grandmother were full blood Yuchi GS: That' ; s--That is awesome CW: And so my mother and her siblings were raised in this house so she was the oldest of the three, my mother was. And they just all through life and I don' ; t think they sold the house until in the late 50' ; s, before they sold the house. GS: Now were you ever in that house as a child? CW: No, I just remember coming by there as a child growing up and as I was returning back to Bristow, because by this time we had moved to Muscogee, and life goes on and my brother and my other sisters they were--they could have been but, and my oldest sister, she was born in 1949 and yes, she was there. She had memories, she just recently passed away this past June. GS: Aw, I' ; m sorry CW: I lost her in June of 2020, she passed away, but she grew--so when we got the house back, she was just amazed, she remembered all the memories of playing in the barn and in the house, what the house looked like, everything, all of her childhood memories. So she was there but I wasn' ; t GS: Now I have heard that this house has been called the Tiger mansion, can you describe it to me, the house? CW: Well, it' ; s a very sound. It' ; s so well built, it was built to last and I remember the story that my mother said that Conniesenny told her which she called her grandma, she didn' ; t call her Conniesenny, she called her--she said " ; grandma tell me" ; , she wanted this house to last a lifetime, a hundred years. Build it to where it will last a hundred years is what she was thinking, and it has lasted a hundred years, it' ; s still well built, it' ; s very sound, still the beautiful concrete pillars. It' ; s a brick home, it' ; s a large three bedroom, has a huge basement, and it has six windows in each room, all this original wood is still there, the original doors, the original hardware, the original flooring, everything it' ; s just--it' ; s just still beautiful, beautiful as it' ; s ever been. The baseboard, everything' ; s still original. GS: And you were fortunate to be able to purchase this recently CW: Yes, I was, yes I was. And the people that had it previously, they did sell I think two or three times before [Indecipherable] was able to Lomous (ph), or Lumous (ph), I' ; m not sure how you pronounce it, her and her husband was Jack and they purchased it and they were caretakers, they--it was their home, you know. They treasured it, they took well care of it, and it was just preserved and that was dated, very dated in the kitchen. But apart from that, because it' ; d been remodeled and sort of 80' ; s stuff, 70' ; s and 80' ; s but, you know, apart from all that, it' ; s just a beautiful. The land itself is beautiful, the original fence is still there. Conniesenny, she also had a, this being her original allotment, she allotted one and a half acres to be our families cemetery, and it' ; s still fenced off to this day with the exact same fencing that' ; s around the house that the property sits on. GS: How many family members do you have buried there? CW: Oh a good twenty, a good twenty people GS: That is wonderful CW: My mother' ; s there, my grandma Conniesenny' ; s there, my husband' ; s there, my father' ; s there, my uncles, my aunts, everyone there. Of any importance ; my mother-in-law is buried there, yeah it' ; s a beautiful family and family history there. GS: Can you tell-- it gets emotional, does it yeah? CW: Yeah, yeah it does GS: Can you tell me anything about, you might not know since you weren' ; t here then, but about the Indian culture that was south of town at that time? CW: Well now the culture goes deeper than people even know and realize that it' ; s still there today, not only just within the property, so I' ; ll back up here a little bit. So the 160 acres had already been--some of it had been sold off in the 50' ; s, like I said when they sold the house, and they' ; d been divided up I think like in the, oh I' ; m not sure exactly what year all this had transpired, but there' ; s different sections of the land has-- is, was gone, but there was still the 40 acres that the house sits on now. And that Jack and Burla (ph) were able to purchase. So it' ; s the house and 40 acres, and so after Burla back to the house, she--a little bit of the history here, she I think ended up going to a retirement home or something and then after she lost her husband, and then she stayed there for years by herself. Well she--my nephew and different ones would stop in, my sister, different ones and I always stopped in and visited her and ask her if, how she was and if they could see the house because there was so much nostalgic memories that go there. My mother' ; s memories have been there with my dad and him proposing to her and all kinds of beautiful memories that go there. And anyway, so we were able to purchase it again, it came up for sale but they hadn' ; t listed it on the market yet and we had always requested that if you please, if anybody decides to sell it, please let us know before it goes out so we can get it back into our family. GS: Yes CW: And as it turns out, my husband and I went down in October and, of 2018. We went down there 2018 and we said " ; Oh let' ; s go see it, let' ; s go see it" ; and the opportunity came so we went and he said " ; Yeah, let' ; s do it, you think you wanna do it?" ; I said " ; Of course you know I wanna do it" ; GS: (Laughing) CW: And so of course we were happy and I was able to get a few pictures that day with my husband and I and little did I know that a few months later that he would pass away GS: Oh CW: So-- GS: I' ; m sorry, know it' ; s hard. How long were you married? CW: 35 years GS: 35 years is a long time. CW: Yeah. I have it, I have it right here. GS: Okay, I was trying to look around to see if I had Kleenex CW: I' ; m sorry, I' ; m sorry about that GS: No, you' ; re fine. CW: So my sons, of course by this time [Indecipherable] my husband had a stroke in 2016 and I resigned from my job to take care of him and so--and in 2018 like I said, we decided to purchase the house and we put a down payment on it and everything so one thing happened with the other then we went into the holidays, November, December, ya know. But January he got sick and went to the hospital, and he died February the 8th of 2019, and so we were in the process of selling our other house to get everything done, and so my sons, I have two older sons, and they picked up the ball and-- GS: Bless their hearts CW: They knew I couldn' ; t do it financially by myself, now when my husband was here we could' ; ve done it GS: Right CW: But he had retired from the American Airlines and had other incomes so, but my sons were able to pick up the ball and purchase it for us, and I moved there now and my sons and I are all entitled together--without my husband, but I' ; m there GS: That' ; s wonderful CW: And he' ; s down the road at the cemetery GS: That' ; s right CW: And that comforts me GS: He' ; s close CW: He' ; s very close GS: Yes, he is CW: So him and my mother and my dad and everyone so I' ; m there with everyone, and I live there in the house and it' ; s, it' ; s just absolutely beautiful. The house is beautiful, and I remember them calling it, referring--I' ; m probably talking too much GS: No you' ; re fine, not at all CW: I remember them referring to it as the Tiger mansion when I was growing up, just the different nostalgic stories that my mother would just say " ; Oh we would do this, and oh we would do that" ; and you know, they had--they had what we would refer to as a nanny today and a housekeeper, she was a live in and her name was Ma Smith, she was a black lady. And her and her husband was Mr. Smith, I don' ; t remember his first name ' ; cus momma never called him by his--she always called him Mr. Smith. GS: Mr. Smith CW: Mr. and Mrs. Smith GS: Very respectful CW: Yeah she didn' ; t call Mrs. Smith ' ; Misses' ; , she always called her Ma, Ma Smith. Maybe they called him Paul, I don' ; t know, but I don' ; t remember that. I always say Mr. Smith and Ma Smith but I would refer to her husband as ' ; Alright now, Mr. Smith' ; s gonna be coming in pretty soon and so you girls need to do this' ; because she was their nanny and momma said she bathed them and took care of them, but she was a live in because she--now there was a servants' ; quarters there on the property, but they didn' ; t live there, they lived in the basement GS: Okay CW: So she could be near Conniesenny in case she needed anything GS: Oh CW: And she was the caretaker, she did everything. She did the cooking and took care of the--her, whatever her needs were, she was there and helped with the kids and helped with raising my mother. GS: How wonderful CW: And she was very hands on and very affectionate. And so Mr. Smith was the groundskeepers and now I know why he, they had a full time groundskeeper, because it' ; s a lot, it' ; s a lot to keep all, everything done and we have weed eaters nowadays and he did it by hand, but at that point in time, there was a fenced in area that was like an orchard and so there was fruit trees and gardening and all of those things that they had. And so anyway, but I think this was the first house to have indoor plumbing S: Oh CW: So it had indoor plumbing and my--the story goes, now this is what my mother told me, that Conniesenny Tiger paid to have the, the first one to pay to have the electric strung five miles, and so the electric that' ; s out there now, everyone has benefited throughout the years because she' ; s the one that had it installed GS: Because she got it started, well I imagine that' ; s true, she had the money to do it. CW: Yes, she did, she did. GS: That' ; s exciting CW: Yeah, and they said that when she died, she had six hundred thousand dollars in her checking account GS: Wow CW: Not what she was worth, because they house, the land, everything that went all together and that day was, of course, doesn' ; t even account for today' ; s money GS: No, yeah CW: But back then, that was a lot of money GS: I' ; m sure, so was that money then distributed to your mother CW: Yes GS: And CW: No, not my mother GS: Your grandmother CW: My grandmother GS: Yes CW: So my grandmother had another son, his name was--his name was Porter Tiger, and so they had a real soft spot in their heart for the depot because he was killed in Colorado and that took his body--took them two weeks to get his body shipped back to Bristow GS: And they did it by rail? CW: They did it by rail, and he came here and they and to come to the train station and pick him up, and so it just broke my grandmothers heart, her heart was just broke, and my great grandmother--I said my grandmother, but it' ; s my great grandmother GS: Conniesenny CW: Conniesenny, yes. Her heart was just broken, and he has two children. He had two children, still does, so--or he has great grandchildren and great grandchildren from her two as well, and she had--so it was the land and, but my grandmother, Hannah Brown (ph) was able to get the house and the land, she inherited that and I think the money and different parts, different sections of that land was inherited to the Porter Tigers children GS: Okay, okay, so that' ; s when it started getting divided up? CW: Yes, after her death so [Indecipherable] GS: You were gonna tell me a little about the Indian Culture around here CW: Oh I' ; m sorry about that GS: No that' ; s--you' ; re fine! CW: The culture here is still strong today, it is--there' ; s still ceremonial ground that is out here south of town and, which is referred to as Iron Post, or there was an original ceremonial ground that was called Sand Creek, so now younger generation refers to this particular Iron Post as Sand Creek so it' ; s kind of changed along the way, but there' ; s still thick native Yuchi culture here out of Bristow and Kellyville between here and Mounds GS: And what do they do there? CW: Oh we have our green corn ceremonial, we have green corn ceremonies here, and all of the--it' ; s a fasting where you fast and pray and dance and sing and all these things that you go then we celebrate with fresh green corn and tomatoes, you know, everything all of your fresh fruits and vegetables at that time of year. And it' ; s usually done in July and August GS: That' ; s--you know I' ; ve lived here all my life and never heard of that CW: Well there' ; s a full blood Yuchi community in Bristow, it' ; s one of the largest ones where everyone if you were from the area, you know between here and--there was a lot of Yuchis that married in with the Sac and Foxes and the Absente Shawnees is as well GS: Are the Yuchis creek, or is that separate? CW: It' ; s actually separate GS: Okay CW: They were--they were band together with the creeks back during the removal, so back then you were just Indian. It didn' ; t matter what you were, you' ; re so--but the majority of, so when they were band together during the removal, they were moved with the creeks because we were neighbors back in the homeland GS: Do you know what state your grandmother Conniesenny came from? CW: Georgia GS: She did come from Georgia, that' ; s very interesting CW: Yeah it' ; s from Georgia GS: Okay CW: So there was the northers Yuchis and the lower Yuchis, southern Yuchis, the northern and the southern since you had the Yuchis that was up in the Appalachians so those were like the northern ones and then you have the southern ones GS: Okay. I never knew that. CW: Close to it GS: Very nice CW: It stretches all the way around from all the way down like where Pensacola and Destin Florida is today GS: Yes CW: Yeah GS: Wow CW: All the way there, all the way. Then once you start getting into Alabama, there was the Georgia, the creeks were there in Georgia as well. But all through Georgia and Alabama was creeks and the Tennessee GS: Fascinating, just fascinating CW: It goes all the way to the east coast all the way back, so there was a huge, huge-- GS: So the Yuchi nation was a big tribe CW: It was--yes and our language is still alive, not it' ; s almost extinct to this day, but there is a younger generation that has really grasped hold and had become faithful and steadfast and we have two elders right now that are still full blood, living full blood. GS: Oh that' ; s marvelous. CW: Yeah it' ; s still, and there' ; s some right here in Bristow is Ethaline Washburn (ph), she' ; s still alive and well and just a beautiful, beautiful lady. GS: She' ; s probably someone we should interview CW: Yeah, you probably should. And she' ; ll say " ; Oh I don' ; t know about that" ; if you know, she said, she' ; s very modest about it, but she was very, very wise. GS: Do you have relatives still living here in Bristow? CW: No I don' ; t GS: Okay, because when we heard the name Tiger we thought " ; Well there' ; s some tigers" ; we' ; ve heard the name tiger in this area CW: Okay so now that they' ; re, they are Conniesenny descendants first for the Tiger, Lucian Tiger, Lucian Tiger the III, they are her grandchildren and great grandchildren. GS: So they' ; re distant relatives to you maybe CW: Yes, to me, but to her they' ; re direct descendants GS: Right, are they still here? CW: Yes, uh-huh yes GS: Okay, yeah, that' ; s what I was asking. CW: Yes, okay so they--they mainly bond, I' ; m sure they bonded with Conniesenny too, but they had their own history here through their mothers' ; side GS: Okay CW: [Indecipherable] And a lot of them made, like that' ; s how the enrollment goes, and any most of your upper whatever, usually followed by the mother [Indecipherable] GS: I' ; ve read that, I just love that, yeah CW: Everything' ; s about Gelenium (ph), and like if you' ; re gonna go with your clan or you' ; re gonna go you follow your mothers clan. (Laughter) GS: The woman in me loves that CW: Yes GS: Okay let' ; s see, okay you told me that you have memories of visiting here because you weren' ; t raised in Bristow CW: Nuh-uh GS: But your grandmother was, your mother was? CW: And my husband was from Bristow GS: Okay CW: He was actually from Bristow from Gipsy corner, my husband was so yeah I have those families from him as well as from his family, but when I was a child, we would come back to visit his family GS: Okay CW: So-- GS: So you knew his family CW: Yes, yes. GS: Well before you every were romantically involved with him CW: Yes, he' ; s Yuchi too GS: Okay CW: We' ; re all--they were all Yuchis, all of them. There' ; s a Yuchi committee that, like the [Indecipherable] Church GS: Yes CW: Okay so anyway, my mother and my grandmother we would always come back here to visit their friends, I don' ; t know, I couldn' ; t tell you there' ; s certain friends, but like one lady was a seamstresses, and we' ; d come back here to pick up the quilts or whatever, or we would come back to go to the ceremonial dances that they had, but anytime we would come to eat, and I would remember coming through town and all of the, you know brick streets, I just loved that as a kid being in the back seat loving that, and I remember them talking about a CR Anthonys that was here on Main Street, I remember just all the old buildings and going in and out of the stores, but I don' ; t remember the names of them. GS: Yeah CW: The pool hall, seems like I remember where there was a pool hall GS: There was, there were a couple right up there CW: Yeah, so I remember that as a child coming through there and the Anchor-In where the hamburgers were, so it' ; s coming back forward another twenty years you know, but-- GS: Well we' ; re so glad that you' ; ve moved back here CW: Oh gosh I am too, I am too. GS: And it' ; s nice, do you have any of your husbands' ; relatives who live around here that you know? CW: They don' ; t live here, no they live in Norman and in Oklahoma City, but they were raised here, they were raised here. When their grandmother, their mother and grandmother passed away, they moved away. They moved away actually before the grandmother passed away, but they of course came back every weekend I remember to always see her because she was a pillar here in the community as well. She, her name was Polly LongGS: Polly Long CW: She was, her native name was Ah-La-Quan and so she lived here for years. She couldn' ; t speak English either, and they chose not to, you know back then they chose not to because they had it so hard, they knew what others were attempting to say but all of her-- she raised three boys, they were her grandsons, she raised them all here. And you know back then the mothers would have to leave home and go off to work if they weren' ; t married, so. And then anyway as time goes on-- GS: Okay let me see, now since you' ; re not from Bristow, I' ; m gonna concentrate on some other area here CW: Okay GS: Church life, your grandmother or any of them, did they attend church, were they religious people? CW: Yes, they were, she was a devout Christian number one, and they-- back then they didn' ; t have church homes, houses, church buildings, a place of worship all over, so back then you traveled to your home to have church GS: I' ; ve heard that CW: So I have pictures of them having church inside the house where I lived now, she had church every--all the time so I have pictures in there in front of the fireplace that still exist today, the exact same windows and everything is in the pictures, GS: We would probably love to have a digital copy of that if you wouldn' ; t mind CW: And my--the lady I mentioned Ethaline Washburn (ph) was in that picture, and my husband was in that picture GS: Aw CW: At that particular church service, he showed one picture of the pastor standing at the pulpit and preaching and the ladies having their hymnals out and singing and then you have another one of them against the wall back over to the dining room where they had the chairs set up for church, and my husband was sitting right in the middle of the row GS: And about how old was he? CW: He was about six, maybe seven. Six or seven GS: Oh how wonderful, how wonderful is that picture! Oh we would love to have a CW: Copy of that GS: A digital copy of that if it' ; s possible, I love that. CW: We have pictures of Conniesenny, she' ; s just a beautiful and the things about it is, we don' ; t know when this picture was taken, but it was taken there in the house GS: The one where your husband was six, or are you talking about a different picture? CW: I' ; m talking about a different picture GS: Oh CW: We have a portrait of Conniesenny Tiger herself, yes it' ; s beautiful. GS: Yeah we would love to have that too CW: Yes, that' ; s beautiful. But all of our childhood memories and all the pictures that my mother would talk about that she could just get the nostalgic, you know somedays she she' ; d just sit there and cry because of her memories that was taken place there at the house and when grandma did this and grandma did that and how grandma was and what they had for supper or you know, just things like that and my--all of the family photos that we have are all taken there at the house with the same entrance, everything' ; s still exactly the same, the front entrance, the from steps, everybody took pictures there GS: It was the gathering place for your family CW: It was, it was. And then we said when we were able to come back and purchase it, we said you know, 70 years since this bloodline has been back in the house GS: Who was the last relative of yours to own that house? CW: Hannah Brown (ph) GS: Hannah Brown, and she was your grandmother? CW: Mhm GS: And she married who? CW: She married Joe Yarbrough (ph) GS: And was he Indian also? CW: Yes, but he was from--there was not no recording of that, you know back then when you got divorced or when you got mad or whatever, you just said you' ; re a half GS: Oh okay CW: So it was one of those deals, there was a divorce GS: Okay CW: And, but he was from Newbie? GS: Yes CW: I think he was from around Newbie GS: Okay, okay. CW: I don' ; t know any, I don' ; t remember--now my mother remembered just talking about his mother, which would have been her grandmother, but I can' ; t, we can' ; t remember her--their names. We don' ; t know who they were or, you know. Some things you just as a kid don' ; t ask, and then even when you got older, before momma died, we-- GS: You don' ; t think to ask until it' ; s too late CW: Until it' ; s too late, it is not as important as it is now GS: Exactly, exactly. What about holidays, what kind of festivities did they have at holidays like Christmas and Easter? CW: Just the same thing GS: Same thing CW: The same just like everybody else did GS: yeah CW: Yeah, my mom always had a tree and my grandmother always seen to it. Back then, we used to come, I remember coming as a child to my lucky Methodist church out here and her bringing--we' ; d come from Muskogee and she' ; d bring baskets of--baskets of oranges and baskets of apples to help set, pass out for the candy sacks for the bags of candy, and she would do stuff like that. GS: That' ; s wonderful. CW: But we would always come back to Bristow GS: Was your grandmother Conniesenny benevolent with her money? CW: I' ; m not really sure, I' ; m not really sure, but I just know that on one hand, she was very free hearted and on the other hand it was always like--actually things were just stolen from her, just stolen. Her money, her mineral rights, everything. It was a lot that was stolen. It was underhanded things that happened. GS: From--from family members CW: No, no GS: or from other [Indecipherable]? CW: Yeah ' ; cus back then, you had to guardians over your money, and then like, they took like over half of her fortune. So it was, it was a lot--it was a lot of hard--I hate that part to be recorded, so I mean it' ; s deeper than you can imagine, but whenever she signed her oil lease away, she was thinking she was selling it and my mother was not there to interpret for her that particular day GS: They took advantage of her CW: They--oh yeah, they actually conned her into signing away her mineral rights, they stole her oil. And so I' ; m sure she was grieved, can you imagine how grieved she was, so you don' ; t know when that took place, we don' ; t know how it did but it' ; s gone now, it' ; s all gone. My mother, we still have a portion of royalties but it' ; s not a lot. And then they act like that we' ; re--I mean it' ; s just too much to put on tape, so. GS: I' ; m sorry. CW: Yeah it' ; s a lot GS: I' ; m so sorry CW: Yeah. When my mother, when my grandmother when I was a child, I remembered going and sitting at in Tulsa in the car all day long and, because the guardian wasn' ; t gonna give her any of her money, and she said " ; well he thinks I' ; m not--" ; GS: Was it because she was Indian? CW: Oh yeah it was because she was Indian, and you know they had kept her money, they guarded the money, they had the government set up to where they appointed guardians over individual people since they thought they were ignorant and dumb Indians, so that' ; s what they did they just, you know, so Indians and dogs are the only ones that are registered with a dog tag with a number on it. If you registered, that' ; s how you get registered. So back then, they had--they took care of all their individual-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-03_Wittman,_Cecelia.xml OHP-2020-03_Wittman,_Cecelia.xml
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Cecelia Wittman
Description
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In this 2020 interview, Cecelia Wittman shares her families history in the Bristow area. She discusses the Tiger Mansion and Indian Culture.
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OHP-2020-03
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2020-08-18
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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English
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sound, oral history
Dawes Act
Iron Post
Native American allotment
Native American guardianship
Native American removal
stomp grounds
Yuchi
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Title
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Pinehill Histories
Subject
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History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
Description
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Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Type
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Oral history.
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Robert and Mary McCarty
Interviewee
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Charles Lionel Klock, Sr
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0011-01_Charles_Klock.xml
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Pinehill, Bristow, Oklahoma, fights, opossum, moonshine, Indian dance
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5.4 OHP-011-01 Charles Lionel Klock, Sr OHP-0011-01 20:39 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Early childhood memories Pinehill, Bristow, Oklahoma, fights, opossum, moonshine, Indian dance Charles Lionel Klock, Sr Robert and Mary McCarty MP3 OHP-0011-01 Klock, Charles Sr.mp3 1:|71(1)|85(1)|101(1)|121(1)|133(14)|153(2)|185(14)|223(2)|240(2)|256(8)|277(2)|300(4)|309(13)|341(10)|362(1)|384(14)|397(8)|415(7)|424(7)|439(10) 0 http://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0011-01 Klock, Charles Sr.mp3 Other audio 0 Family Seventh - afternoon of June 7, 1977. We're talking to Charles Lionel Klock Charles Lionel Klock, and he's gong to tell us about his family. Lionel, what war you mother and dad's name? Charles Lionel Klock describes his family Beaumont ; brother ; family ; father ; Morgan City (La.) ; mother ; sister ; sisters ; Texas City Klock family 121 Pinehill school Did all of you children go to Pinehill school? No, just the three oldest - Daphine and myself and Vernon. I think that was the only ones that really went to the Pinehill school. How many years did you go? About two, I believe, because Lionel Klock describes going to Pinehill school. Annie over ; Mr. Thomas ; Pinehill ; school jumping gates ; Pinehill school ; riding a horse to school ; spankings 396 Chicken roasts Did you ever hear about - did you ever hear about those chicken roasts? Would you like to hear, would you like to hear a story - No, Daphine - Daphine, now I think Daphine - Would you like to hear the story about them? Yeah, I'd like to hear that. Interviewer Mary McCarty relates a story from Lloyd Bruce about stealing chickens and roasting them in a clay shell. chicken roasts ; Lloyd Bruce ; Lloyd, Bruce bake in clay ; chicken roasts 477 Opossum hunting and school spanking and fight with Bob Well, you missed the fun years out there, then. Well, maybe so. But I had plenty of fun. Going out to - going out in the - Do you remember the Christma - - you know, Dad' d take us out hunting at night. We'd go out and hunt opossum or it jsut so happened that many a times we'd - we'd run over with a old hound, we had an old hound that went out ahead of us. hound dog ; opossum ; skunk hound dog ; opossum ; skunk ; Striped skunk 537 School fight and fight with Bob You start talking about that fight, you said there was about eighteen of you: Oh, yeah, well - You told me while ago there was about eighteen of you got a whipping. How many of them was in school that year, if eighteen of you got a whipping? I don't know, I would say it was at least half of the school got it, but the fight really - I don't know exactly what Bobby's part of it is --- Lionel Klock and Bob McCarty reminisce about a fight and the switching they got from the school teacher. girl whipping ; school fight ; whipping school fight 785 Moonshine and a stomp dance Hey, Bobby, did you ever get up in the country there, especially up behind old Ellis Heads' house? You ever go up in there? You ever see those pigs laying up there in that mud - Yeah: - get so drunk on that sour, sour mash that tehm poor sows couldn't get up? Lionel Klock and Bob McCarty reminisce about a moonshiner and an Indian stomp dance. moonshine ; pigs ; sour mash ; stomp dance ; war party ; white lightening deputy sheriff ; Indian stomp dance ; moonshine ; white lightening 1146 Bobby can fight and Lena can dance What were some of the kids' names that went to school with you? Well, I really don't remember a whole lot of 'em. Naturally, Bob Imhousen, then Lena Hooky She must have been a pretty little girl. You keep talking about her. classmates ; dancing dances ; two-step In this 1977 interview, Charles Lionel Klock, Sr. (1927-2003) describes his very early childhood memories in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow, Oklahoma including fights with schoolmates, opossum hunting, the first time he ever tried corn mash alcohol (moonshine), and attending an Indian dance as a child. Interviewer: Mary Lee (Fuller) McCarty (1929-2007) (MM) Interviewee: Charles Lionel Klock, Sr. (1927-2003) (CK) Other Persons: Robert L. " ; Bob" ; McCarty (1927-2007) (BM) Date of Interview: June 7, 1977 Location: Drumright, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Melissa Holderby Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0011 Side ALength: 0:20:39 Abstract: In this 1977 interview, Charles Lionel Klock, Sr. (1927-2003) describes his very early childhood memories in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow, Oklahoma including fights with schoolmates, opossum hunting, the first time he ever tried corn mash alcohol (moonshine), and attending an Indian dance as a child. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. MM: Seventh--afternoon of June 7, 1977. We' ; re talking to-- CK: Charles Lionel Klock. MM: Charles Lionel Klock, and he' ; s going to tell us about his family. Lionel, what was your mother and dad' ; s name? CK: Dad' ; s name was Charles Ishmael Klock and mother' ; s name was Sybil Emmaline Klock. MM: What was your mother' ; s name before she married? CK: Williams. They was--had moved here to Drumright area and mother and dad married in that area. Followed the oilfields around here for a while and finally settled here in Bristow at the little pumping plant out north of town. MM: How many brothers and sisters do you have? CK: I have one brother and three sisters. MM: What' ; s their names? CK: Well, Daphine--do you want me to give their married names? BM: Yeah. CK: Daphine--Dorotha Daphine and her last name now is Holmes. She lives in Texas City, she' ; s a registered nurse. And Vernon Klock lives in Beaumont, Texas and he' ; s a retired--I guess you' ; d call him superintendent for the McDermott (ph) shipyard out of Morgan City, Louisiana. And we have Aline Sanders who is there in Beaumont, lives in Beaumont, her husband' ; s a butcher for the market [indecipherable]. And then my youngest sister which is Thelma Dean Ross (ph), and she lives in [indecipherable], Texas which is a little old town just about ten miles out of Beaumont. MM: Your mother and dad still alive? CK: No, mother' ; s living but dad died two years ago on Easter Sunday morning of a heart attack, there in Beaumont, Texas. MM: Did all of you children go to Pinehill school? CK: No, just the three oldest--Daphine and myself and Vernon. I think that was the only ones that really went to the Pinehill school. MM: How many years did you go? CK: About two, I believe, because--well, really, I went, I went--I started for three, but it just so happened that I was a little early in my going to school and so after about two or three weeks in school I can remember one day I got up behind the curtain on the stage and jumped out and hollered " ; Boo" ; at everybody and just immediately after that, Mr. Thomas sent a letter home to my momma and said, " ; Mrs. Klock, please keep Lionel home," ; says, " ; He won' ; t study and won' ; t let nobody else." ; So I had to stop and drop out that year and then I started again the next year. So hopefully that helps. MM: What kind of sports did you play? CK: Well, the only thing I can remember playing at Pinehill is that we had an excellent slide there, we got the old wax--paper wax off of the bread wrappers, off of the bread. And we put it as slick as you could possibly get it and then the only other sport that I ever really remember playing at the Pinehill was they could throw that ball over and catch it and then run around and hit somebody with it on the other side of the school. MM: Annie-Over. CK: What would you call that? MM: Annie-Over. CK: Annie-Over! Boy, we had a time with that, now. MM: Did you ever get in on any of those chicken stealing when you lived there? CK: No, no, I didn' ; t get into any of that, you know--we lived, when we first began to go to Pinehill, we lived over on the old Indian home. I don' ; t even remember what the Indian family was, but it was over close and had a neighbor by the name of Vann. We had five gates between us and school and we rode a horse. Daphine and I would ride the horse and mother and dad would always instruct us to be sure to stop at each one of those gates and open and close it when we went through. And so we did, we faithfully did our part--at least until we found out that the horse could jump and from that point on, I don' ; t believe we stopped to get any--to open any of them. But we--Bobby was showing me here, Minnie Davis (ph)? Is that where we was living? BM: That' ; s where he lived, yeah. CK: Out on the Minnie Davis (ph) place. Anyway, we never did stop to--from that point on, when that horse came to the gate it always jumped it and how we held on I don' ; t know, but we made it home safely anyway. MM: Did you mom and dad know you was jumping the gate? CK: (laughs) No, they didn' ; t. MM: Have you told your mother in later years? CK: Yeah, yeah. You know, I don' ; t know, we--in our going home, we had one place that we stopped off. I don' ; t know where [indecipherable] it was, don' ; t even remember the name of the family, but it was somewhere between after we turned off of a certain road going back over through to the house, we' ; d stop off at these people' ; s house and get warm! Well, I tell you, when we was coming home, it' ; d be cold, snow on the ground and our feet would get mighty cold and I tell you what, I didn' ; t particularly like the boots that I had and I burned the soles off of them at those people' ; s house by putting my foot up close to the fire. It got warmed, but I burned the heel--the sole off of ' ; em, anyway. (laughs) MM: About how many spankings a day did you get when you was going to school? Bob tells how many he got. CK: Oh, I was a good boy. I don' ; t know, I know I got some but it was mostly hold your hand out and with a ruler on it, you know, and a lot of that kind of situation. Only one time I really did get a switching from Mr. Thomas, but I wasn' ; t alone in that one. There was several others that got a whippin' ; on that one. MM: You didn' ; t go, though--if you got up to the seventh or eighth grade like Bob did, you' ; d have got a few more. CK: Maybe so, maybe so. MM: You missed a few things-- BM: I didn' ; t have to [indecipherable] MM: Did you ever hear about--did you even hear about those chicken roasts? Would you like to hear, would you like to hear a story--CK: No, Daphine--Daphine, now, I think Daphine-- MM: Would you like to hear the story about them? CK: Yeah, I' ; d like to hear that. MM: They would go to various famers, usually the one that was the crankiest in the community, and they' ; d steal a chicken. CK: Oh? MM: And they' ; d take it down to the creek and they' ; d wrap it in--they had a certain place where there was good clay, and they' ; d make a thick layer of that clay, just wring it' ; s neck off and make a thick layer of that clay on that chicken-- CK: Yeah? MM: And just throw it in the fire and let it bake and then when it got done they' ; d just break that clay off and just eat it with their fingers. CK: Uh-huh. MM: So I asked Loyd Bruce on his tape, I said, " ; Loyd, did you remove any undesirable parts of those chickens?" ; And he paused a minute and he said he didn' ; t believe they did! But they said you can take the toughest old rooster or old hen and wrap it in that clay that way and it' ; d get tender and good. CK: I would suppose they would. (all laugh) MM: But they cooked it guts, feathers and all. CK: Oooh, boy! (laughs) BM: [indecipherable] CK: I think I' ; ll [indecipherable], I' ; ll tell you. MM: Did you steal any water--no, you wouldn' ; t even be big enough to steal-- CK: No, no, I, I didn' ; t, I never did really, I didn' ; t--let' ; s, let' ; s see, it must' ; ve been--so really first, second grade is about all that I really got to go there. Well, I tell you-- MM: Well, you missed the fun years. CK: Well-- BM: Then they moved up to Oilton. CK: Yeah, we moved up to Drumright and to Oilton in-between there. MM: Well, you missed the fun years out there, then. CK: Well, maybe so. But I had plenty of fun. Going out to--going out in the-- MM: Do you remember the Christma-- CK: --you know, dad' ; d take us out hunting at night. We' ; d go out and hunt opossum or it just so happened that many a times we' ; d (laughs) we' ; d run over with a old hound, we had an old hound that went out ahead of us. Instead of a opossum he found a, a good skunk. And run in on top of that skunk and it hit him right in the face. And I never (laughs), I never heard one dog holler so much and waller so much, throw his head on the ground and roll and squall and bawl and, you know? That ruined our hunt for that night. We didn' ; t get to go any further. (laughs) That old dog just--hooked him up and he went back to the house after that. MM: You start talking about that fight, you said there was about eighteen of you? CK: Oh yeah, well-- MM: You told me while ago there was about eighteen of you got a whipping. How many of them was in school that year, if eighteen of you got a whipping? CK: I don' ; t know, I would say it was at least half of the school got it, but the fight really--I don' ; t know exactly what Bobby' ; s part of it is, but I know I come home crying and dad said, " ; What you crying about?" ; and I said, " ; Well, somebody jumped on my back." ; And sometimes it was Bobby! Other times it might' ; ve been somebody else but that particular time it was Bobby. And he told me, he said, " ; Son," ; he said, " ; I' ; ll tell you what: If you come home tomorrow night and you' ; re crying because somebody jumped on your back and you hadn' ; t done nothing about it," ; he says, " ; I' ; m gonna spank you." ; Well, the next evening it just happened to be that Bobby was the one that jumped on my back. And for the next mile and half--next half a mile, really--it was either me on bottom and him on top or I was on top and he was on bottom, I don' ; t know how it all wound up like, but I assure you one thing, this is some--at least thirty-five or thirty-six years afterward and I' ; m still bearing the scars of those, that fight (laughs) in my face. MM: It' ; d have to be better than forty years, you didn' ; t go to school out there after you was ten. CK: Well, no, let' ; s see-- MM: Come on, now. CK: Well, five years--six years old, yeah! It' ; s got to be forty, forty-four years ago. About forty-four to--forty-three to forty-four years. That' ; d be it. But I' ; ll tell you what, I didn' ; t get a whipping when I got home, and I can' ; t say whether I got the best of the fight or Bobby got the best, or who got the worst, or what have you. I' ; ll tell you we both come out with plenty of scars, and not only us--you know, Alton (ph) and Daphine got into that, too. Alton (ph) wound up with a pretty good scar on his face over that rack--and Daphine had some pretty good nails and she shore did get him right across the face. BM: [inudible] CK: Clear from the forehead clear to the chin, I' ; ll tell you, he really got a good one. MM: And on top of all that, I believe your mother and Bob' ; s mother were best friends. CK: Ooo-hoo! (laughs) Yeah, yeah! And after that, Bob and I was pretty good friends, too! (laughs) BM: (laughs) MM: Our son that was killed and a boy got into it and knocked each other' ; s teeth loose and everything else and the next day they wanted visit each other and we said, " ; Mose (ph), we thought you were angry," ; and he said, " ; Why, just ' ; cause your fighting' ; s no sign that you' ; re mad at each other!" ; (all laughing) BM: But you know, Mr. Thomas didn' ; t like what he heard about that fight. He--the next day at school he begin to name off the ones that he wanted to talk to after school, and he kept the boys in one room and the girls in the other. The only thing is, he appointed Daphine and one of the other girls to go out and they was to pick the switch that we was to get switched with, and naturally for themselves they pretty--picked a pretty good, a very small little switch. But for the boys, I' ; ll assure you we got our--they got the right size. I don' ; t know if that was a peach limb or just what it was, but I' ; ll assure you--and when Mr. Thomas laid it on, he was--didn' ; t spare the rod. (laughs) I can remember it. Now, I also heard from other reports, though, that when he spanked the girls it--that just the skirt really got the blistering. It really never did get down next to the body on the girls. But the skirt really did get the blistered on. CK: I think everybody went down that south road and got a lickin' ; that day. BM: (laughs) Eighteen of us, at least. CK: I know' ; d it, anyway. MM: Well, you and the McIntyres (ph) got into it one time, didn' ; t you? CK: No, me and the Wilson boys got into it. MM: Wilson. CK: Hey, Bobby, did you ever get up in the country there, especially up behind old Ellis Head' ; s (ph) house? You ever go up in there? You ever see those pigs laying up there in that mud? BM: Yeah? CK: --get so drunk on that sour, sour mash that them poor sows couldn' ; t get up? (all laughing) BM: You know the last time, last time I talked to old Ellis--oh, before the lake was--had a lot of water in it. When I-- MM: Ellis died slow and hard with that cancer, he had a terrible time of dying-- BM: --I went out and bought some corn off Ellis to fatten out some hogs. And-- MM: --and Lord, that was twenty years ago. Almost twenty years ago. BM: --I got talking to him that afternoon, and " ; Say, Ellis, when is the last time you ran off a batch of corn?" ; He said, " ; Oh, Bob, it' ; s been a good long time." ; He said, " ; I' ; ll tell you what, I' ; ll tell you where there' ; s a twenty-gallon keg of it buried." ; He said, " ; I buried it and I runned it off." ; MM: I guess it' ; s still there! BM: As far as I know it' ; s still there. MM: So it' ; s--Bob' ; s been-- BM: You know, [indecipherable] CK: You know, I guess there might be others that would dispute it but I--according to my particular knowledge of it, he made some of the best that-- BM: That' ; s right! CK: --that was run off in our country. I know about the only time that I ever really got a good, I got exposed to it, so to speak, I think they come over to the house and three men and dad were standing out in the yard and they had the bottle and so they started off and tilt that bottle up, you know, and finally it went around to all four men and then finally dad handed it to me and says, " ; Here, son," ; he said, " ; Here, take a swig." ; Well, you know, I thought I had some sodee-pop. BM: Yeah? CK: And, boy, so I turned that thing up like I would a sodee-pop bottle and I got me a mouthful and I learned quickly that the white lightening didn' ; t its name just because it was a white, or clear. It had something else-- BM: (laughs) CK: It had a little fire! And I don' ; t know that I have ever been burned so in all my life. I think that did help me, though, to one extent--I never have touched the stuff very much since. BM: (laughs) One one of old Ellis--he always, when he was making, he had a few of ' ; em that would come around, he' ; d get ' ; em to come around and [indecipherable] with him, especially when he was running off a batch. And you could just almost tell when old Ellis would run off a new batch-- CK: (laughs) BM: --' ; cause there' ; d be some old boy around over the country throw a big dance that weekend. CK: Well, you know, this is a lot of memories that you can have about a place and I guess one of the things that I--stands out most in my memory, you know--Ollie Hooky (ph) was--I don' ; t know exactly how good he was at his particular trade in that area, but I do know he was pretty good at selling it, anyway. We went with him one night down to country out of--somewhere down below here, out on the--to an Indian dance. You know, called ' ; em Indian stomp dances. MM: They still have them. CK: And so--but unknown to us, the car was lined with white lightening, and he was selling it to the, to the different Indians there at the dance. Well, I' ; ll tell you, I had a ball! I had, I was just big enough that I could slip in and out of line and I' ; d get ahold of a fellow in front of me, I' ; d get ahold of his hip pocket and here I' ; d go around that bonfire, stomping and dancing. Well, if that fellow in the front of me happened to have a bottle in his pocket, I slipped out of line right quick. I didn' ; t stay behind him. I' ; d get behind somebody that didn' ; t have a bottle, anyway. But that particular night-- MM: Why would you do that? CK: Huh? MM: Why would you-- CK: Well, I wasn' ; t particularly wanting to--the man in my--he didn' ; t have a bottle in his pocket, but I didn' ; t want--I was trying to get somebody that was maybe, may not have been quite so drunk as the other one (laughs), but that night we, as we' ; s sitting--and sitting there, or as the stomp dance continued, the deputy sheriffs in this county happened to find one of the men that they were looking for, and they couldn' ; t catch him. And he had jumped on a truck and was taking off and so the deputy took his gun and fired and shot the man, really. The leaves that--he shot through the tree and the leaves that fell off of the tree fell right down in mother' ; s lap. If the bullet had been just a few inches lower she would' ; ve--well it probably would have hit her instead of the man. But I' ; ll assure you one thing: when that shot rang out, that stomp dance no longer was a stomp dance but it turned into a war party. Those Indians jumped out, went to their teepees and they come out with knives and guns like you never seen. Well, Ollie (ph) and dad beat it to that car, throwed us kids in the back seat and I want you to know, that was one wild ride out of there that night. Now that' ; s one thing that stands out in my memory about that. MM: What were some of the kids' ; names that went to school with you? CK: Well, I really don' ; t remember a whole lot of ' ; em. Naturally Bob Imhousen (ph), then Lena Hooky (ph)-- MM: She must' ; ve been a pretty little girl. You keep talking about her. CK: Well, Lena (ph) was--she was my dancing partner at the different dances and I' ; ll assure you, we could cut a pretty good rug, I guarantee you. We' ; d--especially when Lena (ph) and I got started dancing, well, the whole dance floor cleared off and I' ; ll assure you we did the two-step. Now, if you had it today--I don' ; t know what you' ; d call that dance today but I' ; ll tell you what, I sure did enjoy those few times that we did get to dance together. (pause) But now, really, some of the others, I' ; m sitting here trying to remember, but I--the names of many of those children, or young people at that day, I guess just doesn' ; t--you know, that' ; s forty-four years ago, it doesn' ; t stay with me. Or it didn' ; t stay with me. BM: That' ; s right. CK: They didn' ; t make an impression on me like Bobby. (laughs) MM: And Lena. Bobby can fight and Lena can dance, huh? BM: There you go! There you go! (all laughing) end of interview audio 0 bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/app/Ohms/interview/Version3.phpOHP-011-01_Charles_Klock.xml OHP-011-01_Charles_Klock.xml
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Charles Lionel Klock, Sr
Description
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In this 1977 interview, Charles Lionel Klock, Sr. (1927-2003) describes his very early childhood memories in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow, Oklahoma including fights with schoolmates, opossum hunting, the first time he ever tried corn mash alcohol (moonshine), and attending an Indian dance as a child.
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OHP-0011-01
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Early childhood memories
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1977
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Regan Siler
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Charles Nicholson
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0071_Charles_Nicholson.xml
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6.0 May 9, 2025 OHP-0071 Charles Nicholson OHP-0071 01:03:22 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Charles Nicholson Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0071 Nicholson, Charles.mp3 Other audio 0 Background Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is May 9, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Charles Nicholson, which I'll probably call him Coach, at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 00:27
 ; Charles Franklin Nicholson.
 ; Charles Franklin Nicholson was born on January 12, 1937. He was born in Muskogee, Oklahoma at the Baptist Hospital. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Charles Franklin Nicholson ; Muskogee (Okla.) Birth 0 ["[\"\"]"] 48 Parents Regan Siler 00:48
 ; Okay, and can you tell me about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell me your mom and dad's full names? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 01:00
 ; Freddie Lahoma Nicholson [Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson 4/4/1911-11/1/2008] and Harold Franklin Nicholson [11/1/1909-5/13/1991].
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:07
 ; Okay, and I have Freddie, your mother's date of birth, as April 4, 1911. And I have your dad, Harold Nicholson's birth date, as November 1, 1909. I looked those up so we wouldn't
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 01:21
 ; Oh, okay.
 ; Charles' father was Harold Franklin Nicholson. He was born on November 1, 1909. Harold passed on May 13, 1991. Charles' mother was Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson. She was born on April 4, 1911. She passed on November 1, 2008. Charles' mother taught second grade most of her life. His father was a coach and a superintendent of schools. Charles was an only child. Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Northeastern State College (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) Parents 0 ["[\"\"]"] 150 Extended Family Regan Siler 02:30
 ; Okay. Did you get to grow up around family?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 02:35
 ; Yes, our family was mostly from Warner, Oklahoma, and we lived around Muskogee all of our lives. Bristow is the furthest place from Muskogee that I've ever lived.
 ; Most of Charles' extended family lived close in Warner, Oklahoma. Charles was around Muskogee all of his childhood. Bristow is the furthest he has lived from there. Warner (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Family 0 ["[\"\"]"] 183 Childhood Regan Siler 03:03
 ; Oh, my goodness, okay. Um, so you came, or actually, first, let's talk about your childhood and your home life. I'm going to ask you, just kind of some fun questions to see if you
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 03:19
 ; Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 03:19
 ; See if you can remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played as a as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 03:28
 ; Yes, a pedal car.
 ; Charles had a pedal car as a child. Charles spent a lot of time outside. His job was to keep the cars clean. Charles also spent time outside playing baseball, tennis and basketball with his friends. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Baseball ; Tennis ; Basketball Childhood 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 291 Tennis Matches Regan Siler 04:51
 ; So, and I'm going to jump ahead a little bit, but I found it funny because your daughter was telling me about you, your adventures in getting to some of your tennis matches. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 05:06
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 05:07
 ; It's not like it is today.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 05:09
 ; So, tell me, tell me a little bit about trying to get to a tennis match or what they would do.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 05:09
 ; Right.
 ; Charles had his first tennis match in Oklahoma City when he was 16. It was at the Oklahoma City University. He had gained the nickname Uncle Vic by smaller players in Muskogee. Tennis ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City University ; Muskogee (Okla.) Tennis 0 ["[\"\"]"] 413 Childhood Activities and Collecting Things Regan Siler 06:53
 ; Especially whenever you're trying to navigate Oklahoma City as a 16 year old. So did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 07:08
 ; Dad had a shop also, and we had a scroll saw they call nowadays, and we use that to make things. And I learned to make things, and I do that today for Christmas. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 07:24
 ; So, like, wood things? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 07:25
 ; Yes, sawing wood.
 ; Charles' father had a shop, and they worked with a scroll saw to make things. Charles still enjoys woodworking as a hobby. Charles has his tennis medals and trophies in his attic. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Christmas ; Tennis Hobbies 0 ["[\"\"]"] 486 School Regan Siler 08:06
 ; Okay, okay, so can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:15
 ; I first attended school at, well, I don't remember.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:28
 ; That's okay. Did you were you said you lived mainly in Muskogee?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:33
 ; Yeah. I lived in, yeah. I guess, oh, Wagoner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:41
 ; Wagoner?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 08:41
 ; My mom was second, huh, my mom was second grade teacher.
 ; Charles attended school in Wagoner, Oklahoma. His mother taught him in second grade. Charles enjoyed school. Muskogee (Okla.) ; Wagoner (Okla.) ; Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson School 0 ["[\"\"]"] 538 Clubs and Organizations Regan Siler 08:58
 ; Okay, now I'm asking if you were a member of any clubs or organizations. Obviously, you played a lot of sports, but were you involved in any other organization? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 09:10
 ; 4H club. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 09:12
 ; 4h, okay. Go ahead.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 09:16
 ; I raised three hogs in the backyard. And in a square made out of wood and fence. And I moved that along so when they wore the grass out, they would have more grass.
 ; Charles was involved in the 4H-club in school. He raised three hogs in his backyard. When Charles took the hogs to the fair, they got away and ran over the judge. 4H-Club Clubs ; Organizations 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 594 Tennis Regan Siler 09:54
 ; Um, okay, so we're going to circle back to tennis. So, it's my understanding that you were ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under, and you were ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings, and then you were the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Does that sound right?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:17
 ; Yes for there were two classes, A and B.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:20
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:21
 ; And, of course B, A was Tulsa and Muskogee and Ada, and there was a B class. That's all there was.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:34
 ; So, do you feel that you got your love of sports from your dad?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 10:40
 ; That was my job.
 ; Charles was ranked number one in Oklahoma for tennis 15 and under. He was also ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings. Charles was the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Charles was told by his father when he was young that sports was his job. Oklahoma ; Oklahoma State Tennis Singles ; Midwest Doubles ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Ada (Okla.) ; Harold Franklin Nicholson Tennis 0 ["[\"\"]"] 774 School Regan Siler 12:54
 ; Okay. Okay, so back on school, did you enjoy reading? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 13:05
 ; Not really.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:06
 ; Not really. I I'm kind of with you on that. Um, do you remember if you, like, ate in the cafeteria, or did you take your lunch when you were a youngster?
 ; Around the fourth grade, Charles started riding to school with his father. His father was the superintendent and coach at Okay Public Schools. So, Charles attended there for the rest of his schooling. School ; Wagoner (Okla.) ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Superintendent ; Coach ; Okay Public Schools ; Elementary ; High School School 0 ["[\"\"]"] 840 Childhood Home Regan Siler 14:00
 ; Okay, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 14:10
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:11
 ; Can you, you said you lived in town? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 14:13
 ; Yes, we lived in Wagner.
 ; Charles grew up in a two-story home in Wagoner, Oklahoma. They played tennis in the backyard. The baseball field was two blocks away. Charles even had a ping pong table and a TV room in the upstairs. Wagoner (Okla.) ; Tennis ; Baseball ; Basketball ; Wagoner School Childhood ; Home 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1047 Mealtimes Regan Siler 17:27
 ; Well, my goodness! Well, so, can you tell me what meal times were like for your family? Did you eat together every night? Or how did that work? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 17:38
 ; Yes, my mama had a rule that supper was going to be on the table at six o'clock.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:51
 ; And you better be there.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 17:52
 ; If we did, yeah, if we did not make it, we ate it cold. Or if we didn't like it, we would fix it ourselves.
 ; Charles' mother had a rule that supper was on the table at six o'clock. If he did not make it in time, he had to eat it cold. Charles says his mother was a good cook. He remembers her meatloaf. Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Tahlequah (Okla.) Mealtimes 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1246 Automobiles Regan Siler 20:46
 ; Meatloaf. Okay, um, so you said that you always had to take care of cleaning the cars. What kind of cars did you have? Do you remember what kind of cars they were? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 20:59
 ; Well, yes, they were, my dad always had a new car to drive for safety reasons, and my favorite car was a Model A '31. We went to a barn west of Checotah [Oklahoma] and bought a Model A for $25.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 21:31
 ; Oh, my goodness!
 ; Charles says his father always had a new car to drive for safety reasons. Charles favorite car was a Model A '31. He bought one for $25 and fixed it up. He later sold it for $650 and went to college. He then bought a '40 Chevrolet. Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Model A Ford ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Chevrolet automobile ; Porter (Okla.) ; Muskogee (Okla.) Automobiles 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 1495 Television Regan Siler 24:55
 ; Yeah, you got to do all kinds of things. Um, well, let me see here. Did you, so, you said you had a TV room, so I guess you got to watch some TV growing up. Do you remember any of your favorite programs?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 25:12
 ; Yeah, but I can't think the name of it. We always tried to get home and Channel Six in Tulsa. Channel Six in Tulsa, came on the air. We heard there's a TV station. Now, before that, as growing up, we got to go to Oklahoma State basketball games and sit behind the bench, and we got to go what they call then, an all college tournament in Oklahoma City. Would be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Kansas, all the top schools in this area.
 ; Charles watched Channel Six in Tulsa on television. He says his favorite show was a dancing show that was on after school at four o'clock. He later found out that his wife's sister had been on one those dance shows. Television ; Channel Six in Tulsa ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Oklahoma State University ; Texas ; Kansas ; Oklahoma ; Channel Four in Oklahoma City ; Sharon Allen Scott Television 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1639 Church Regan Siler 27:19
 ; Did you attend church growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 27:22
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 27:23
 ; You did? Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 27:24
 ; First Baptist Church.
 ; Charles attended the First Baptist Church when he was growing up. He says the teacher was a good-looking woman, so all of the boys went there. Charles' wife was a Methodist, but he converted her over to Baptist. Charles says most of the ball players went to the Baptist Church while he was coaching. First Baptist Church ; Methodist ; Sharon Allen Scott Church 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1746 Childhood Dreams and College Regan Siler 29:06
 ; Okay, um, okay, so as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 29:16
 ; Yes, I wanted to be a scientist, a chemist. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 29:21
 ; Wow!
 ; Charles wanted to be a scientist, specifically a chemist when he grew up. As he got older and went to college, he could not imagine sitting in an office all day. He had been attending Oklahoma State, but one day decided to leave. He said he was going home and attending Northeastern and playing tennis with his friends. He decided to become a teacher and a coach. Scientist ; Chemist ; Oklahoma State University ; Northeastern State University (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Northeastern A& ; M ; Miami (Okla.) ; Edna (Kan.) College ; Dreams 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1857 Wife Charles Nicholson 30:57
 ; I married a girl from Tulsa. We met at college in the fall at a dance. And 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:09
 ; So, okay, so, so since you're telling me about her, tell me, tell me what her name is.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 31:14
 ; Her name is Sharon Allen Scott.
 ; Charles married a girl from Tulsa. Her name was Sharon Allen Scott. They met at a fraternity dance while Charles was in college at Tahlequah. Sharon Allen Scott ; Northeastern State University ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Fraternity ; Edna (Kan.) Wife 0 ["[\"\"]"] 1963 Engagement Regan Siler 32:43
 ; Okay, so did you have an engagement? And did it, so did you get engaged? How long was your engagement? Or did you just decide to get married?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 32:55
 ; Let's see. It's one Saturday afternoon at her house, and we looked at each other and said, let's get married. She says, I want to marry you.
 ; Charles and Sharon looked at each other one Sunday and said, "Let's get married." Later Charles' parents said they didn't know if they could afford Charles his senior year because of all of the gas he was using. Charles and Edna went back and forth between Tulsa, Tahlequah and Checotah. Sharon Allen Scott ; Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson ; Harold Franklin Nicholson ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Tahlequah (Okla.) ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Edna (Kan.) Engagement 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2136 Bristow Regan Siler 35:36
 ; Well, so, I know that you also taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before you landed in Bristow in 1967 so let's talk a little bit about Bristow. Um, what did you think about Bristow when you first came here? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 35:52
 ; We loved it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:53
 ; You loved it? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 35:54
 ; Yes.
 ; Charles taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before he landed in Bristow, Oklahoma in 1967. He loved Bristow. He thought it was nice to be somewhere where no one knew him or his family. He was hired to teach ninth grade physical science and be the head coach of the boys' basketball team and the assistant coach of football. Okay (Okla.) ; Inola (Okla.) ; Porter (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Oklahoma ; Porum (Okla.) ; Physical science ; Basketball ; Football Bristow 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2256 Girls' Basketball in Bristow Regan Siler 37:36
 ; Okay, um, and then I also understand, and I didn't even know this. I don't know how I didn't know this, that you were asked to start the girls basketball program in 1973, so I'd also like for you to talk a little bit about the evolution of girls basketball in Bristow.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 37:58
 ; Okay, we had six on six. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:04
 ; See, I played six on six. I'm an old timer.
 ; Charles was asked to start the girls' basketball program in Bristow in 1973. They played six on six. He remembers Dick Doak's daughter (Linda Trigalet) being a good outside shooter. Charles was the head coach for about three years. Basketball ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Gene Thompson ; Dick Doak ; Linda Trigalet ; Stroud (Okla.) ; Holdenville (Okla.) ; Wewoka (Okla.) ; Henryetta (Okla.) ; Porter (Okla.) Basketball 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2598 Wedding Regan Siler 43:18
 ; But you really sparked my interest in in weather, you know, in which we're going to talk about that too, because you have, you have quite a career here with Bristow, but let's talk a little bit more about your wife, Sharon. Um, you did you, you said you got married in the Baptist Church?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 43:41
 ; No, Methodist.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 43:42
 ; Methodist Church, I'm sorry. That's right. And do you remember what your wedding was like? Was it simple? Was it big?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 43:50
 ; It's very simple.
 ; Charles and Sharon were married in the Methodist Church. He says it was a very simple wedding. Charles' college friend was his best man ; his friend's dad was a doctor and owned a big Lincoln. Charles and Sharon arrived and left the ceremony in that car. Methodist Church ; Baptist Church ; Sharon Allen Scott ; Lincoln automobile Wedding 0 ["[\"[\\\"\\\"]\"]"] 2671 Daughters Regan Siler 44:31
 ; Well, that's cool. Um, well, I also want to ask you about your daughters, um, which I know both of them, but so tell me both of your daughter's names.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 44:44
 ; Leisa Lynn Nicholson (Hallman) [9/1/1961]. Teresa Edair Nicholson (Ledgerwood) [4/2/1963].
 ; Charles has two daughters. The oldest is Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman, born September 1, 1961. The youngest is Teresa Edair Nicholson Ledgerwood. Teresa was born on April 2, 1963. Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman ; Teresa Edair Nicholson Ledgerwood Daughters 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2826 Grandchildren Regan Siler 47:06
 ; Um, now I also understand that you have four grandchildren and six great grandchildren. Is that correct? 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 47:14
 ; Mm, hmm.
 ; Charles has four grandchildren. He also has six great grandchildren. Grandchildren ; Great-Grandchildren Grandchildren 0 ["[\"\"]"] 2834 Civil Defense Director Regan Siler 47:14
 ; Okay. Um, okay, so some things I want to talk to you about in talking with Lisa, there were, you know, several points that they brought up that they wanted me to ask you about. I would like for you to tell me about serving as the Creek County Civil Defense Director, and then, I guess, you were Bristow's Civil Defense Director for 24 years, retired in 1998. Can you tell me about your experience with all of that?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 47:43
 ; Oh, we had a highway patrol that lived two doors south of us, that we camped with and I fished with, and one day he said, I want you to go watch storms with me, the highway patrol. So, I went twice.
 ; Charles served as the Civil Defense Director in Bristow for 24 years. He retired from that position in 1998. He went to the National Weather Service in Tulsa so he could learn about storms. Charles was instrumental in getting training for storm watching around Bristow. Leisa Lynn Nicholson Hallman ; Creek County Civil Defense Director ; Bristow's Civil Defense Director ; Highway Patrol ; County Sheriff ; National Weather Service ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; First Baptist Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Washington Elementary School ; Storm Watchers Civil Defense Director 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3128 Firefighter and Neighborhood Watch Program Regan Siler 52:08
 ; Oh! Absolutely, absolutely. I, also, understand that you were, I didn't know you were a volunteer firefighter for the fire department here?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 52:17
 ; Yes, I was. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 52:18
 ; You worked for a while. Okay. 
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 52:20
 ; We would fight fire all day and chase storms all night.
 ; Charles was a volunteer firefighter. He said he would fight fires all day and chase storms all night. He also started a neighborhood watch program. Charles was the Citizen of the Year in 1985 in Bristow. He was also a 2010 Wildflower Run honoree. Firefighter ; Fire departments ; Merit of Recognition and Appreciation ; Mayor ; Neighborhood watch programs ; Ben Franklin (store) ; Principal ; Athletic directors ; Citizen of the Year ; Christmas ; Wildflower Run ; Country Club Firefighter ; Neighborhood watch programs 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3324 Important Invention Regan Siler 55:24
 ; Okay, well, I have a couple of other questions for you, but I but these are just kind of fun questions. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention in your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 55:36
 ; Oh, man, that's a that's a hard question. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 55:39
 ; That is a hard question. I'm challenging you.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 55:42
 ; I think the the car was.
 ; Charles believes the car was the most important invention. Charles and his father rebuilt many cars together. Charles would get a lot of car parts from a junk yard that a dad of one of his friends owned. Automobile ; Harold Franklin Nicholson Invention 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3407 How the World is Different Regan Siler 56:47
 ; Right, right. Well, that's cool. How do you how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 56:57
 ; The world is too many people are self-centered. Too many people feel sorry for themselves. They don't, they're not fighters anymore. I mean, now, I'm talking fighters. I'm talking about getting out there and stealing the basketball at the end of the game and making a basket to win it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:20
 ; Right, right.
 ; Charles believes that too many people are self-centered nowadays. He says that people feel sorry for themselves and aren't fighters anymore. World World 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3457 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 57:37
 ; Yeah, yeah. I, I understand that. As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how would you think you would solve it?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 57:50
 ; We are too soft. Now, I was born in '37. We didn't put up with this. Our nation did not put up with this. Germany, they marched, my uncle's made the D-Day invasion. The D-Day invasion was, wow, a guy gets shot right there beside you, and you make it up the hill.
 ; Charles feels like our nation is too soft now. He says back in his day they didn't put up with this. He talks about his uncle being a part of the D-Day invasion. He remembers the president declaring war on Japan and hearing it on the radio. Germany ; D-Day Invasion ; President ; Japan ; Muskogee (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Porum (Okla.) ; Fort Smith (Ark.) Nation ; Problem 0 [""] 3600 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:00:00
 ; But as a kid, that's yeah what you were thinking. Well, how have historic events say, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the 9/11 any natural disasters, world wars or even COVID, have any of those things affected you in your life, aside from what we just talked about?
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:00:22
 ; Yes. I, Oklahoma City bombing, I was prepared to go down there like other people and help service. I got a phone call from the state office telling me to stay in Bristow, because we were on a main highway. See, okay, and they didn't know if they were going to be bombing, marching up, bombing.
 ; Charles remembers when the Oklahoma City bombing occurred. He was prepared to go help but the state office called and wanted him to stay put in Bristow with it being on a main highway. Oklahoma City bombing ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; COVID ; September 11 Terrorist Attacks, 2001 ; Texas Historic Events 0 ["[\"\"]"] 3705 Words of Wisdom Regan Siler 1:01:45
 ; Yeah, exactly. Well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us? Or, I, honestly, would like to get because I, I would like to hear what Coach Nicholson's words of wisdom are for you to share with future generations. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share to end this.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:01:45
 ; Yes, you're right.
 ; 
 ; Charles Nicholson 1:02:07
 ; Work hard.
 ; Charles finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says to work hard. Charles also says to spend time with your family. Wisdom ; College ; Kansas City (Mo.) ; California Wisdom 0 ["[\"\"]"] MP3 Charles Nicholson, a longtime Bristow resident and coach talks about his life and experiences. Born January 12, 1937, in Muskogee, Oklahoma, Charles discusses his parents' backgrounds and his own education and sports achievements, including being ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under tennis and winning the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Championship. He shares stories about his childhood, his marriage to Sharon Allen Scott, and his teaching and coaching career, which included starting the girls' basketball program in Bristow. Charles also reflects on his service as the Creek County Civil Defense Director and his dedication to community safety. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:27.140 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is May 9, 2025 and I'm sitting here with Charles Nicholson, which I'll probably call him Coach, at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:30.000 Charles Franklin Nicholson. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.179 Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview? 00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:34.020 Yes, you do. 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:38.729 Okay. Can you tell me when and where you were born? 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:48.659 I was born in January the 12th, 1937 at Baptist Hospital in Muskogee, Oklahoma. 00:00:48.659 --> 00:01:00.000 Okay, and can you tell me about the people in your family? Let's start with your parents. Can you tell me your mom and dad's full names? 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:07.500 Freddie Lahoma Nicholson [Freddie Lahoma Looper Nicholson 4/4/1911-11/1/2008] and Harold Franklin Nicholson [11/1/1909-5/13/1991]. 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:21.299 Okay, and I have Freddie, your mother's date of birth, as April 4, 1911. And I have your dad, Harold Nicholson's birth date, as November 1, 1909. I looked those up so we wouldn't 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:21.900 Oh, okay. 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:23.579 So we wouldn't have to remember that. 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:27.680 Gosh, that's good. 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.659 Can you tell me what type of work they did? 00:01:30.659 --> 00:02:02.549 My mother was English major in college, an elementary major, and she taught second grade most of her life. My dad was a math and science major, and he played basketball at Northeastern State College in Tahlequah, and he was also my basketball, my tennis, my baseball [coach], and he was also superintendent of schools. 00:02:02.549 --> 00:02:06.569 So, you didn't, you didn't fall too far from the tree, did you? 00:02:06.569 --> 00:02:09.300 No, I didn't. 00:02:09.300 --> 00:02:11.939 Do you have any siblings? 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:12.719 No. 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.250 So, you were an only child? 00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:14.909 Yes. 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:16.409 Well, my goodness, okay. 00:02:16.409 --> 00:02:20.879 We had problems having children. 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:21.900 Oh, okay. 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:26.430 And I made it. 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:29.009 You made it. You were their miracle. 00:02:29.009 --> 00:02:30.090 Yes, I was. 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:35.340 Okay. Did you get to grow up around family? 00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:51.659 Yes, our family was mostly from Warner, Oklahoma, and we lived around Muskogee all of our lives. Bristow is the furthest place from Muskogee that I've ever lived. 00:02:51.659 --> 00:02:52.469 Really? 00:02:52.469 --> 00:02:53.960 Yes. 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:59.990 And you've been here for how long since? I'm trying to think. 00:02:59.990 --> 00:03:03.830 I think it's 19. It was 67. 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:19.189 Oh, my goodness, okay. Um, so you came, or actually, first, let's talk about your childhood and your home life. I'm going to ask you, just kind of some fun questions to see if you 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:19.610 Okay. 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:28.189 See if you can remember. Do you remember any of your favorite toys or games that you played as a as a youngster? 00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:31.550 Yes, a pedal car. 00:03:31.550 --> 00:03:33.319 You had a pedal car? 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:40.789 And my dad was resourceful. He would make bicycles. 00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:41.599 Oh, my goodness. 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:54.949 So, I had all the, I never had a new bicycle, but I had a repainted fenders pedal, an old bicycle. 00:03:54.949 --> 00:03:59.000 Well, that sounds awesome. So you probably spent a lot of time outside. I'm guessing? 00:03:59.000 --> 00:03:59.840 Yes, we did. 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:06.620 Yes. Did you have any chores that you were expected to do? 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:08.270 Wash the cars. 00:04:08.270 --> 00:04:09.110 Really? 00:04:09.110 --> 00:04:11.389 Keep the cars clean. 00:04:11.389 --> 00:04:13.939 That's interesting. 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:19.459 I also worked in a filling station with that experience. 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:24.050 Okay, and so how old were you when you worked at the filling station? Were you a youngster? 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:27.709 I was a senior in high school. 00:04:27.709 --> 00:04:36.050 Okay, and did you have any friends that came over and played at your house? Did you live in town? Did you live in the country? 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:51.740 No, I, we lived in town, but I had, I had friends, but I spent most of my time on the road playing baseball and tennis and basketball. 00:04:51.740 --> 00:05:06.620 So, and I'm going to jump ahead a little bit, but I found it funny because your daughter was telling me about you, your adventures in getting to some of your tennis matches. 00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:07.430 Yeah. 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.000 It's not like it is today. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:09.529 So, tell me, tell me a little bit about trying to get to a tennis match or what they would do. 00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:18.779 Right. 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:50.750 Dad took me over where I went, and when I was 16, he handed me the car keys and said, your tennis match this weekend is in Oklahoma City. And, I had been in Oklahoma City, but I had never driven in Oklahoma City, so I took off and went and got to my tennis match. 00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:57.290 And that's that's without Google Maps or cell phones or with anything. You just figured it out, huh? 00:05:57.290 --> 00:06:02.389 It was the Oklahoma City University, and that's where I went for the tennis match. 00:06:02.389 --> 00:06:03.329 Oh, my goodness. 00:06:03.329 --> 00:06:20.399 And I was called Uncle Vic by the smaller tennis players in Muskogee, because Vic Seixas was one of the big tennis players. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.449 Oh, okay. 00:06:21.449 --> 00:06:22.860 So, they called me Uncle Vic. 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:24.240 So, that was a compliment? 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:24.839 Yes. 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:25.839 Okay. 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:43.990 I was driving them to Ada. And you know how when they repair a road, there's cones out there. I look in the rear view mirror, one of them's got the tennis rackets out the window, knocking those cones over. It could have torn their arm off! 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:52.720 Oh, my goodness! It's a wonder that any of us survived our childhood, you know? 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:53.439 Yeah. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:07:08.860 Especially whenever you're trying to navigate Oklahoma City as a 16 year old. So did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:24.189 Dad had a shop also, and we had a scroll saw they call nowadays, and we use that to make things. And I learned to make things, and I do that today for Christmas. 00:07:24.189 --> 00:07:25.720 So, like, wood things? 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:27.040 Yes, sawing wood. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.000 Cool. 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:31.269 So, those hobbies carried over into your adulthood. 00:07:31.269 --> 00:07:34.810 With a 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:39.610 Yes, that is how I take, pass my time today. 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:49.040 Really? Well, that's neat. Did you collect anything as a child? You remember collecting anything? 00:07:49.040 --> 00:08:06.889 No, I have, not bragging, but I have my tennis medals and my tennis trophies that I have in the attic, and then I have, you know other things, pictures. 00:08:06.889 --> 00:08:15.000 Okay, okay, so can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school? 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:28.439 I first attended school at, well, I don't remember. 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:33.720 That's okay. Did you were you said you lived mainly in Muskogee? 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:41.039 Yeah. I lived in, yeah. I guess, oh, Wagoner. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.789 Wagoner? 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:47.700 My mom was second, huh, my mom was second grade teacher. 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:50.129 Did she teach you also? 00:08:50.129 --> 00:08:51.600 Yes, in the second grade. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:56.429 Okay, okay. Did you enjoy school? 00:08:56.429 --> 00:08:58.539 Yes, I enjoyed school quite a bit. 00:08:58.539 --> 00:09:10.809 Okay, now I'm asking if you were a member of any clubs or organizations. Obviously, you played a lot of sports, but were you involved in any other organization? 00:09:10.809 --> 00:09:12.190 4H club. 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:16.600 4h, okay. Go ahead. 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:37.059 I raised three hogs in the backyard. And in a square made out of wood and fence. And I moved that along so when they wore the grass out, they would have more grass. 00:09:37.059 --> 00:09:38.049 Right! 00:09:38.049 --> 00:09:48.850 I took them to the fair that in the fall, and my three hogs got away from me and ran over the judge, knocked him down. 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:49.600 Oh, no! 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.789 So, I didn't win a prize. 00:09:54.789 --> 00:10:17.769 Um, okay, so we're going to circle back to tennis. So, it's my understanding that you were ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under, and you were ranked number three in Midwest Doubles rankings, and then you were the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Champion. Does that sound right? 00:10:17.769 --> 00:10:20.740 Yes for there were two classes, A and B. 00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:21.940 Okay. 00:10:21.940 --> 00:10:34.809 And, of course B, A was Tulsa and Muskogee and Ada, and there was a B class. That's all there was. 00:10:34.809 --> 00:10:40.149 So, do you feel that you got your love of sports from your dad? 00:10:40.149 --> 00:10:41.440 That was my job. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:42.509 That was your job. 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:44.490 Besides keeping the cars. 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:44.879 Okay. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:55.110 Keeping the cars clean. But my daddy told me when I was like in elementary, sports, is your job. 00:10:55.110 --> 00:10:55.740 Okay. 00:10:55.740 --> 00:11:08.789 Now I was taught how to do a lot of things around the house. I was taught how to paint the house and so on and so forth. 00:11:08.789 --> 00:11:12.480 But, he felt like sports was your your job. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:12.929 That's right. 00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:20.159 Okay, okay, so, did that put pressure on you, or did you, did you enjoy it? 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.179 I enjoyed it. 00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:25.340 You enjoyed it. Okay. Do you feel like he was hard on you? 00:11:25.340 --> 00:12:11.529 My dad was hard on me. I was, we were playing the finals of the basketball tournament at Conner State College when I was a freshman. We were taught to run very hard man-to-man defense. A guy got away and came down the middle, and I swung and didn't touch the guy, but the guy, the referee called a foul. I guess I said some foul language. I don't know. That was not me. 00:12:11.529 --> 00:12:13.019 Right. 00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:40.870 You're out of the game 21! So, as I headed for the bench, I saw my dad pull off his belt. My dad grabbed me by the left arm, gave me a spanking by his belt. The referee stopped the game and says, you're back in the game 21. 00:12:40.870 --> 00:12:42.100 Are you serious? 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:48.909 So, after the game, my dad said I hated to do that, but I needed you in the game. 00:12:48.909 --> 00:12:49.960 Well, my goodness! 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.009 But that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. 00:12:54.009 --> 00:13:05.950 Okay. Okay, so back on school, did you enjoy reading? 00:13:05.950 --> 00:13:06.700 Not really. 00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:17.990 I I'm kind of with you on that. Um, do you remember if you, like, ate in the cafeteria, or did you take your lunch when you were a youngster? 00:13:17.990 --> 00:14:00.950 Okay, we lived in Wagner. My dad, eight miles south, was superintendent and coach. So, after I was probably in about the fourth grade, I went to, I started riding to school with him and going to Okay Public Schools, and so we spent a lot of time in the car, driving back and forth. So, that was my most that was my high school, I mean, my elementary and my high school experience. 00:14:00.950 --> 00:14:10.009 Okay, okay, um, well, let's talk a little bit about the house you grew up in. 00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:11.299 Okay. 00:14:11.299 --> 00:14:13.940 Can you, you said you lived in town? 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:15.500 Yes, we lived in Wagner. 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:18.980 Can you describe your house? 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:35.490 It was a two story house, divided. In other words, they took a mansion, sawed it half in two, and moved them apart. 00:14:35.490 --> 00:14:36.120 Are you serious? 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:54.210 And they, yes, they look alike. There's a picture on the wall. I wish you could see it of the two houses. The driveway was in between, and I had a concrete slab with the goal on the garage. 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:56.000 You probably spent a lot of time on that, didn't you? 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.929 Yes, we also had a tennis court in our backyard. 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:01.309 Did you really? 00:15:01.309 --> 00:15:16.250 Yes, it was dirt, and we played tennis, practiced tennis in the backyard, and two blocks south was the baseball field. 00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.889 And this was in the town of Wagoner? 00:15:18.889 --> 00:15:19.429 Yes. 00:15:19.429 --> 00:15:22.460 Okay, and then you were close to the baseball field, too. 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:24.919 Yes, the baseball field was right down there. 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:38.240 Okay, so did you, do you remember, like, the inside of your house? Like your, I know you spent most of your time outside, but like, what was your, what was the inside of your house like? 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:50.000 Inside of the house was a kitchen, a washroom and a stairwell. Then on the east side of the house was the dining room and the living room. 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.059 So you had a really nice house, didn't you? 00:15:53.059 --> 00:16:08.779 Yes, upstairs was a ping pong table in the hall and then a TV room, my bedroom and my parent's bedroom and a bath. So, there's an upstairs bath and a downstairs bath. 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:10.889 Wow! 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:19.620 And, like I say, we were very, oops, I forgot the word. 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:20.399 That's okay! 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:21.330 Resourceful. 00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:22.409 Okay. 00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:34.649 And he was able to, like I say, put a tennis court back there, and basketball court, and then we had a garage where we had all of our tools. 00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:39.539 So, did your friends not come over and play tennis or basketball with you? 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:45.000 No, all my friends were going to Wagoner School, of course. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.029 Oh, okay. 00:16:48.029 --> 00:17:06.660 And they, we beat them in the finals. We beat them in the finals of the Regional in 1955 on our way to state basketball tournament. 00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:08.009 Okay. 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:16.589 They were not very happy. As I was dribbling down the court, I would see paper clips fly by me. 00:17:16.589 --> 00:17:18.319 Really?! 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.569 Yes, they were. 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:21.230 Oh, my goodness. 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:27.079 They were trying to hit me with paper clips from rubber bands. 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:38.869 Well, my goodness! Well, so, can you tell me what meal times were like for your family? Did you eat together every night? Or how did that work? 00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:51.200 Yes, my mama had a rule that supper was going to be on the table at six o'clock. 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:52.000 And you better be there. 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:02.710 If we did, yeah, if we did not make it, we ate it cold. Or if we didn't like it, we would fix it ourselves. 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.180 I like that rule. 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:06.880 It was a good rule. 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:12.049 So, did you have to do any cleaning up or any of that, or did your mom handle all that? 00:18:12.049 --> 00:19:20.809 I, my mother came to me one day and said, if I put, if you will put me through college, I will put you through college. And I said, okay, what do I do? She said, do the laundry and clean the house. I says, okay, teach me. So, she taught me how to do the laundry and to clean the house. Now, when we clean the house, we don't clean the house. We dust every object on every shelf and every shelf as we take it off. And, so, that was a good teaching thing for me. We still do that today, and of course, also clean the cars. 00:19:20.809 --> 00:19:29.210 Yes, still clean the cars. Okay, well, that's interesting. I think that's a good that, that was a really good life lesson for you, wasn't it? 00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:31.400 I think, yes, it was, yeah. 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:37.279 And plus, I just think that's, I'm I'm kind of like that at my house, too, so. 00:19:37.279 --> 00:20:00.289 Mama just dies laughing, when I was I graduated in Tahlequah, and she said, how do you iron your clothes? I said, I spread them out and put them between the mattress and box springs and lay on top of them. That's the way I iron my clothes. 00:20:00.289 --> 00:20:02.900 Well, hey, you said you guys were resourceful. 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:05.190 Yes, yes. 00:20:05.190 --> 00:20:34.200 Did you, do you happen to remember having a favorite meal that she would fix for you? Can't think of anything in particular? Or any, maybe dessert or something that she would fix that you really enjoyed? 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:35.609 No, I really can't. 00:20:35.609 --> 00:20:37.410 Okay. Was she a pretty good cook? 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:38.789 Yes, my mother was a good cook. 00:20:38.789 --> 00:20:42.480 So, you probably liked everything, then, if you were a growing boy. 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.109 Right. Meatloaf comes to my mind. 00:20:46.109 --> 00:20:59.109 Meatloaf. Okay, um, so you said that you always had to take care of cleaning the cars. What kind of cars did you have? Do you remember what kind of cars they were? 00:20:59.109 --> 00:21:31.059 Well, yes, they were, my dad always had a new car to drive for safety reasons, and my favorite car was a Model A '31. We went to a barn west of Checotah [Oklahoma] and bought a Model A for $25. 00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:33.170 Oh, my goodness! 00:21:33.170 --> 00:22:27.559 My dad, we brought it home, and my dad was a, could paint, you know, all this stuff, and we fixed it up. It was beautiful, and I drove it all over, and when I got ready to go to college, Dad says, you got to sell your Model A, which broke my heart. So, I was parked on the street in Checotah, and this guy saw me get out of it, and stopped, from Oklahoma City and said, I noticed your Model A's for sale. And I said, yes. How much? I said, $650. He got out his billfold and counted his money and says, I think I got that much. So, anyway, I sold my Model A and went to college. 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:34.490 So, did he, did he want you to sell it because you needed the money or because you needed a better car? 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:35.539 Probably a better car. 00:22:35.539 --> 00:22:36.470 A better car? 00:22:36.470 --> 00:22:36.869 Yes. 00:22:36.869 --> 00:22:38.160 But you were partial to it? 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:38.579 Yes. 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:39.480 Yeah, oka. 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.029 My better car was a '40 Chevrolet. 00:22:42.029 --> 00:22:43.710 A '40 Chevrolet, okay. 00:22:43.710 --> 00:22:45.240 Do we have time for that story? 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:46.920 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:46.920 --> 00:23:23.279 '40 Chevrolet had a bad engine. So, we found, dad found the '53 Chevrolet power glide upside down. It was at a junkyard and bought it and brought it home and put it in that '40 Chevrolet. Which the '40 Chevrolet, he'll never know this, was the fastest car on the highway. We would race it and win. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:24.000 That's awesome. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:45.690 So, when I moved to Porter [Oklahoma] as the coach, the super the president of the school board, raced cars. So, Porter was a small town, so I got in with them in the summer racing cars. 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:47.589 Oh, my goodness. 00:23:47.589 --> 00:24:45.519 So, one of my physics students, he decided he was going to build a race car. So, they were standing around. And when I grew up in Porter, I was also with these mechanic's sons. So, they said, what are we going to do? I said, well, the fastest car I had was a '40 Chevrolet, '53 power glide engine with the stick shift. They kind of scratched their chins and they said, I think that'll work. So, that car after school on Fridays, I would hook that car and trailer up and take it to Muskogee [Oklahoma] for my student to race, and we had one of the fastest cars out there. 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.339 Well, how fun is that? I did not know that about you. 00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:55.119 Oh, yes, I was just fortunate all my life to have do the things I had fun doing. 00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:12.279 Yeah, you got to do all kinds of things. Um, well, let me see here. Did you, so, you said you had a TV room, so I guess you got to watch some TV growing up. Do you remember any of your favorite programs? 00:25:12.279 --> 00:26:05.430 Yeah, but I can't think the name of it. We always tried to get home and Channel Six in Tulsa. Channel Six in Tulsa, came on the air. We heard there's a TV station. Now, before that, as growing up, we got to go to Oklahoma State basketball games and sit behind the bench, and we got to go what they call then, an all college tournament in Oklahoma City. Would be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Kansas, all the top schools in this area. 00:26:05.430 --> 00:26:10.950 Oh, I was just wondering you, you said you sat behind the I had asked about the TV programs. 00:26:10.950 --> 00:26:51.930 Yeah, okay, Channel Six came on the air. I sit on the front porch holding up an antenna. And dad had bought a TV, and we had seen Channel Four in Oklahoma City, which at then, at that all-college tournament, there was TVs out in the lobby where you could see them. So, we found out we could watch Channel Six, so dad had this big two story antenna on top of the house. We could get Channel Four in Oklahoma City, and then when Tulsa came on the air, we could get them. 00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:53.130 You could get them. 00:26:53.130 --> 00:26:53.609 Yes. 00:26:53.609 --> 00:26:54.089 Well, that's awesome. 00:26:54.089 --> 00:27:19.579 And there was a dancing program after school at four o'clock on Channel Six, where, you know, students from all schools came and danced, and that was my favorite program. Later on, I found out my wife's sister was on one of those dance shows. 00:27:19.579 --> 00:27:22.519 Did you attend church growing up? 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.119 Yes. 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.950 You did? Okay. 00:27:24.950 --> 00:27:26.000 First Baptist Church. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:37.970 Do you remember what your favorite thing about church was, or what services were like? Or can you tell me anything about church? 00:27:37.970 --> 00:28:01.190 The, sorry you asked, the teacher in Baptist Church was a very good looking woman, so all of us boys went to 00:28:01.190 --> 00:28:02.000 You liked going to her class? 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.279 No, no, it's your interview. Yeah, I asked you. 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:35.480 Yes! We like going to her class, Sunday school class. We had a softball team that was very, very good. She was a good softball coach. So, that attracted us to the Baptist Church. We were, I was baptized in the Baptist Church, and I married my wife. She was, oh, we shouldn't be talking about religion, should we. 00:28:35.480 --> 00:29:02.000 My wife was a Methodist. My parents were Methodists. So, I kept, even all through life, going to the Baptist Church. So, when I married my wife, I converted her over and because most of the ball players seemed like, when I was coaching, would go to the Baptist Church. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.140 Interesting, and, so, you enjoyed attending the Baptist Church, then? 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.710 Yes. 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:16.339 Okay, um, okay, so as a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:21.650 Yes, I wanted to be a scientist, a chemist. 00:29:21.650 --> 00:29:22.779 Wow! 00:29:22.779 --> 00:30:12.190 But as I got older and went to college, I could not feature myself being inside all day in an office, in a room, working. So, I went home. One day I was at Oklahoma State. I went home one day and I said, I'm going to Northeastern at Tahlequah [Oklahoma], play tennis with my friends that I grew up with that are over there playing. I'm going to make a teacher and a coach. And my parents said, that sounds good. So, I finished that fall in Oklahoma State, and I went to Tahlequah. 00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:36.849 And that's funny that you say that, that was the next thing I was going to talk to you about, because Lisa had told me that you were awarded basketball and tennis scholarships to Northeastern A & M in Miami [Oklahoma]. You played one year, attended OSU one year, and then in 1957 that you transferred to NSU to play tennis. 00:30:36.849 --> 00:30:37.299 Yes. 00:30:37.299 --> 00:30:46.269 And that you graduated NSU in 1960 with a Bachelor of Science in Education with a minor in science and math. Does that all sound right? 00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:46.750 Yes. 00:30:46.750 --> 00:30:55.599 Okay. And then after graduation, I understand that you headed to Edna, Kansas for your first teaching assignment? 00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:56.079 Yes. 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.910 Okay. You want to tell me about that? 00:30:57.910 --> 00:31:09.730 I married a girl from Tulsa. We met at college in the fall at a dance. And 00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:14.559 So, okay, so, so since you're telling me about her, tell me, tell me what her name is. 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.750 Her name is Sharon Allen Scott. 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.119 Okay, and so you met her at NSU? 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:19.630 Yes. 00:31:19.630 --> 00:31:20.680 Okay, all right. 00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:21.000 At a dance. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:32:23.970 We at a dance. Yes, she came to Tahlequah at a fraternity dance. Her boyfriend had some problems, and she and I danced together. And I said, next time you come to Tahlequah, I'll have you a date with a really nice guy.I mean, I wouldn't say it would be me at the time, but as life turned out, she and I dated, and you gotta remember, she was a senior in high school. I was a senior in college. Her senior class was 1000 some odd, and my high school was 200. But I married a girl from Tulsa, and I moved her in a car, in a trailer, to Edna, Kansas, which was 250 people. She made a lot of friends. I'm serious, she made a lot of friends. 00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:26.160 Well, she's a, she's a sweet lady. 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:30.750 She, oh gosh, yes, how lucky could you be? 00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:35.430 Well, do you remember what your first impression of her was when you, the first time you saw her? 00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:43.589 Uh, she was very mild and very sweet person. 00:32:43.589 --> 00:32:55.890 Okay, so did you have an engagement? And did it, so did you get engaged? How long was your engagement? Or did you just decide to get married? 00:32:55.890 --> 00:33:11.519 Let's see. It's one Saturday afternoon at her house, and we looked at each other and said, let's get married. She says, I want to marry you. 00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.750 Just like that, huh? 00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:49.109 Yes. And, so, later on my parents said we didn't know if we could afford you your senior year, because you burned, you and Sharon burned so much gas driving back and forth from Tulsa to Tahlequah to Checotah to Tahlequah. And I didn't, I said, why didn't you tell me? I said, we could've, you know, put it every other weekend. 00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:49.890 Right. 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:59.019 But I would drive up stay with her parents one weekend, and then pick her up, and we would go to my parents one weekend. 00:33:59.019 --> 00:34:14.800 Well, so, one of my other questions I wanted to ask you was, what was your first years of marriage like, which takes us back to you taking her to Edna. So, tell me a little bit about Edna. You said it was a little bitty town. She made a lot of friends. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:24.760 Yes, we had a Falcon back then, red. 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:25.989 Okay. 00:34:25.989 --> 00:35:36.190 I was so proud of my car. While we were dating, I drove it to Tulsa. She said, why did you get red? I said, because that was the color that the car was, okay. Not, oh, you got a new car! Wow, why did you get red? So, I have a picture of us standing by the red Falcon. But my memory was also, she would drive to Tulsa and visit her parents. One weekend, she got to her mom and dad's and her dad said, how much money you got? She said, $2. He said, you mean you drove all the way down here with $2 in your pocket. Well, gas was quarter a gallon, and the Falcon got 25 miles per gallon. That's it. 00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:52.690 Well, so, I know that you also taught in Okay, Inola and Porter before you landed in Bristow in 1967 so let's talk a little bit about Bristow. Um, what did you think about Bristow when you first came here? 00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:53.619 We loved it. 00:35:53.619 --> 00:35:54.250 You loved it? 00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:55.300 Yes. 00:35:55.300 --> 00:35:57.309 Was she happy to be in a different town? 00:35:57.309 --> 00:35:58.840 Yes. 00:35:58.840 --> 00:35:59.000 Okay. 00:35:59.000 --> 00:35:59.199 An escape? 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:05.900 Now, can I tell you that Bristow was an escape. 00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:34.809 For us. I had lived in northeastern Oklahoma all our life. Everyone knew me from the time I was a little guy shooting free throws before a game at Porum, Oklahoma when I was six years old, and every time I would make one, the whole crowd would cheer. But it was an escape. 00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:39.070 So, you felt like it was nice to come and be somewhere where no one knew you? 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:39.429 Yes. 00:36:39.429 --> 00:36:40.630 Okay. 00:36:40.630 --> 00:36:48.099 Because little Charlie Nicholson was not going to whip my son in high school. I was an adult. 00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:49.300 Right, right. 00:36:49.300 --> 00:37:22.869 But we, we came here, and of course, basketball was not a big game, and I would go up down the hall, and I would tell the students, I said, hey, our basketball team's playing tonight. Why don't you come and see us? And luckily, I had some boys that were that could play, and and we started filling the gym, and it was just great. 00:37:22.869 --> 00:37:29.380 So, you, so, whenever you came here, you were hired to teach ninth grade physical science? 00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:29.860 Yes. 00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:35.949 To be the head coach of the boys basketball team and the assistant coach of the football team, correct? 00:37:35.949 --> 00:37:36.000 Yes. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:58.219 Okay, um, and then I also understand, and I didn't even know this. I don't know how I didn't know this, that you were asked to start the girls basketball program in 1973, so I'd also like for you to talk a little bit about the evolution of girls basketball in Bristow. 00:37:58.219 --> 00:38:04.699 Okay, we had six on six. 00:38:04.699 --> 00:38:07.519 See, I played six on six. I'm an old timer. 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:27.769 Yeah, we had six on six. We had three guards and three forwards, and we started girls basketball in physical education. Gene Thompson kind of practiced the girls in physical education class. 00:38:27.769 --> 00:38:29.150 Okay. 00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:38.000 I had Dick Doak's daughter was from Stroud. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.190 Now, is this Linda? Are we talking about Linda Trigalet? 00:38:40.190 --> 00:38:41.119 Linda Trigalet. 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:42.869 Okay, she's another one of my favorites. 00:38:42.869 --> 00:38:57.900 Yes, yes. She had played at Stroud, so she was a good outside shooter. I had some girls that could play guards and and we did well the first year of basketball. 00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:58.469 That's awesome! 00:38:58.469 --> 00:39:06.409 And we had a good time at it, too. 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:14.000 Do you feel like it took a while for the girls basketball to catch on, or did it just really take off and 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:26.809 Yes it, yes it, we kind of caught on. I had one or two girls that were fast and played defense. 00:39:26.809 --> 00:39:28.519 And probably fun to watch? 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:30.380 Yeah, yes. 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:38.900 So, now, back then, was there very many other teams in your district, or was it still pretty small at that time? 00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:57.949 Yeah, most, if I remember, but most of us had the same teams. Holdenville, Wewoka, Bristow, Henryetta, some, some other teams had, they all had girls. 00:39:57.949 --> 00:40:11.659 So, this might not be a fair question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Do you have, do you, do you have a favorite sport that you have coached, between tennis, football, basketball, boys and girls basketball? Do you have a favorite? 00:40:11.659 --> 00:40:13.250 Yes, I love basketball. 00:40:13.250 --> 00:40:15.199 Basketball, yeah. 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:33.559 We, drills. We did not drill running up down the court or running up down the stadium. We drilled dribbling passing, three on two. 00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:35.000 All the fundamentals. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:41:09.860 Yeah, fundamentals. My dad said that you can't play ball if you can't dribble left hand, right hand and shoot left hand, right hand. And, every time I run on to an elementary coach, they would, I would say, learn to dribble, and they would scream at me left handed and right handed, because I've had players that thought they became left handed. 00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:14.539 Because they were so fluid and being able to do either right or left. 00:41:14.539 --> 00:41:24.980 I had a kid at Porter. They would say, other coaches would say, boy, that left hander is good! 00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:26.030 And they're right handed? 00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:37.900 Yeah, and, but I noticed that when my kids would dribble left handed down the court, nobody would take the ball away from because they would go, you know, they'd just look at them. 00:41:37.900 --> 00:41:55.449 Right, right. That's funny. Um, seemed like there was something else I was going to ask you about that. So, how long were you the girls basketball coach? So, you were the head coach? Because I don't have that information. 00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:57.340 I was head coach for about three years. 00:41:57.340 --> 00:42:02.559 Were you really? And you were you still trying to coach the boys and football, too, and tennis? 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:05.019 No, I just coached girls basketball. 00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:05.710 Just the girls? 00:42:05.710 --> 00:42:05.889 Yeah. 00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:12.539 Okay. And then, and then, didn't you, you coached tennis as well at some point, right? 00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:28.679 Yes, Title IX said we must have equal women's sports. So, that's why that there is tennis and softball and track. 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:38.579 Equal opportunity, basically. Well, you know, I'm really glad you didn't become a scientist, because I think your calling was to be a coach and a teacher. 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:40.960 It was. I think it was, too. 00:42:40.960 --> 00:43:17.710 And I have to say, I'm gonna go back to your teaching part a little bit. I had you for ninth grade science, and I remember because, you know, of course, this was before, you know, cell phones and everything was so readily available. We were, of course, talking about weather, and you had a VHS tape of some of an active tornado doing damage, and you let me take it because we watched, like, a little bit of it in class, and you let me take that tape home where I could watch it at home. And I thought that was the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. Scary, but cool, you know. 00:43:17.710 --> 00:43:18.639 Yeah. 00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:41.650 But you really sparked my interest in in weather, you know, in which we're going to talk about that too, because you have, you have quite a career here with Bristow, but let's talk a little bit more about your wife, Sharon. Um, you did you, you said you got married in the Baptist Church? 00:43:41.650 --> 00:43:42.849 No, Methodist. 00:43:42.849 --> 00:43:50.079 Methodist Church, I'm sorry. That's right. And do you remember what your wedding was like? Was it simple? Was it big? 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:51.039 It's very simple. 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:52.360 Very simple. Okay. 00:43:52.360 --> 00:44:11.000 My college friend was a best man. His dad was a doctor that had a big Lincoln. So, we got the bride in a big Lincoln. 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:12.000 In a big Lincoln. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:31.889 After the, before the ceremony, we arrived right in the big Lincoln. Had our ceremony, and we got in the big Lincoln and went to eat. The big Lincoln took us to our motel, so we had a big Lincoln waiting. 00:44:31.889 --> 00:44:44.639 Well, that's cool. Um, well, I also want to ask you about your daughters, um, which I know both of them, but so tell me both of your daughter's names. 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.750 Leisa Lynn Nicholson (Hallman) [9/1/1961]. Teresa Edair Nicholson (Ledgerwood) [4/2/1963]. 00:44:48.750 --> 00:44:50.309 Okay, so 00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:53.340 Lisa is a Hallman. 00:44:53.340 --> 00:44:54.840 And Teresa is a Ledgerwood. 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:55.980 Teresa is a Ledgerwood. 00:44:55.980 --> 00:45:08.099 And I have Lisa's birthday as September 1, 1961. And I have Teresa's birthday, April 2 of 1963 just because I want to have that on the recording. 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:17.000 We were not going to have babies for two or three years, but after a while, my wife said, it's time to have babies. 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:29.210 It's time to have babies. Well, can you think back to what maybe some of the challenges were of being a dad in the early years. Did you have any challenges or? 00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:31.219 Funny you should ask. 00:45:31.219 --> 00:45:33.289 Let me guess, you have a story? 00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:54.500 Yes. Theresa did not like to go to bed early. She did not like to sleep, so she and I sit in the living room watching television while she was on my shoulder. 00:45:54.500 --> 00:45:55.670 Right. 00:45:55.670 --> 00:46:02.090 And about the time I would thought she was asleep, she would raise her head up and start looking. 00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:05.449 And you're like, darn, we have to start this process all over again. 00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:10.670 And Sharon and Lisa were sleeping while she and I was up. 00:46:10.670 --> 00:46:13.340 So, she was your one that didn't sleep much then? 00:46:13.340 --> 00:46:15.829 Yes, and she went through life like that. 00:46:15.829 --> 00:46:21.000 Oh, my goodness. Now, did they, did you coach them in basketball? Did they play basketball for you? 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:21.110 So, how was that? Was that a good experience, a fun experience? 00:46:21.110 --> 00:46:25.440 Yes, uh huh. 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:43.530 Yes, it was. Teresa would always and my daddy, I never thought about this. My daddy always said, you make the first shot of the game. 00:46:43.530 --> 00:46:44.730 That's what he would tell you? 00:46:44.730 --> 00:46:45.179 Yes. 00:46:45.179 --> 00:46:46.110 Okay. 00:46:46.110 --> 00:47:01.590 Teresa was the same way. She'd make the first shot of the game. Lisa was a good passer.The girls. the girls liked to play with her, because she'd get the ball to them. 00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:05.219 And it takes, yeah, it takes all parts to make it work. 00:47:05.219 --> 00:47:06.690 That's right. 00:47:06.690 --> 00:47:14.159 Um, now I also understand that you have four grandchildren and six great grandchildren. Is that correct? 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:14.550 Mm, hmm. 00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:43.000 Okay. Um, okay, so some things I want to talk to you about in talking with Lisa, there were, you know, several points that they brought up that they wanted me to ask you about. I would like for you to tell me about serving as the Creek County Civil Defense Director, and then, I guess, you were Bristow's Civil Defense Director for 24 years, retired in 1998. Can you tell me about your experience with all of that? 00:47:43.000 --> 00:48:08.320 Oh, we had a highway patrol that lived two doors south of us, that we camped with and I fished with, and one day he said, I want you to go watch storms with me, the highway patrol. So, I went twice. 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:12.789 And this was when you were, like, a teacher and a coach and all that. 00:48:12.789 --> 00:48:12.849 Yeah. 00:48:12.849 --> 00:48:16.480 It was that was that time of life. Okay. 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:31.000 And, so, we went twice. The next thing is, they said, I want you to go, there was a building out here on the hill by the swimming pool that was the county. 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:33.329 Yes, I've seen pictures of it. 00:48:33.329 --> 00:49:07.230 And up on top of it was a little house, he said, and this is where they watch storms from, the key the base we'll call it, the base station. Want you go up there and see what they're doing. So, I went up there twice or three times, and pretty soon they came to the house, said we want you to be, then, Civil Defense. 00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:08.880 Right, right. 00:49:08.880 --> 00:50:08.400 I said, man, I don't know that I've got time for this. Well, we've got to have you, because at the time, the guy that was the director was going to run for county sheriff, so they had to have someone. So, I accepted was sworn in in this building across the street. The main thing was, is storm watching. I don't care what else happens. So I went to the National Weather Service in Tulsa, walked in the door, introduced myself. I said, I got to know about storms. I said they've thrown they've thrown me in Civil Defense Director at Bristow. And I said their main thing is watching storms. And a guy looked around and said, I bet there's a lot of people out there that don't know the, now, I knew about storms, but I didn't know the particulars. 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.699 Right. 00:50:10.699 --> 00:50:34.369 So, this, I was the my experience was the beginning of the Weather Service traveling around, giving schools. And the first one was the First Baptist Church in Bristow. We filled that place. 00:50:34.369 --> 00:50:40.369 So, you're basically kind of instrumental in getting training for storm spotting. 00:50:40.369 --> 00:50:40.969 That's right. 00:50:40.969 --> 00:50:44.900 That's amazing. And now it's huge. It's a big deal. 00:50:44.900 --> 00:50:54.949 Yes, it is. And you can take it on television, I mean, I'm sorry, on the internet now, but still. 00:50:54.949 --> 00:50:57.710 So, the first class was here at the First Baptist Church? 00:50:57.710 --> 00:50:58.429 Yes. 00:50:58.429 --> 00:50:59.449 That's amazing. 00:50:59.449 --> 00:51:00.469 And it was full. 00:51:00.469 --> 00:51:01.369 It was full. 00:51:01.369 --> 00:51:15.000 We later moved up here to the elementary. Washington had, you know, had a place up there, and we it got smaller because they moved around to different cities. 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:26.460 Well, I remember being bummed out when you retired, because I was like, who's going to tell us when the the sirens need to be blown. We, a lot of this counted on you. 00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:29.940 Yes, it went downhill from there. I'm sorry. 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.000 Yes, I would agree. 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:56.409 We were in the process of rebuilding, and the guy died. Oh, he, he was one of my storm watchers, took over for me, and they didn't have enough. He couldn't find anybody with that could afford for nothing to go out and take their lives in their own hands. 00:51:56.409 --> 00:52:03.099 Right, in your own vehicle, in your, yeah, in your own time, right, right. Yeah, I understand. 00:52:03.099 --> 00:52:08.800 I mean, you can get out there and get hung up and get a get your pickup just beat up. 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:17.860 Oh! Absolutely, absolutely. I, also, understand that you were, I didn't know you were a volunteer firefighter for the fire department here? 00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:18.219 Yes, I was. 00:52:18.219 --> 00:52:20.079 You worked for a while. Okay. 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:25.469 We would fight fire all day and chase storms all night. 00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:43.139 My husband actually started here as a volunteer fireman, and then was a full time here, and then, you know, ended up he's at Tulsa now. I, also, understand that you were awarded a Merit of Recognition and Appreciation from the mayor for your 24 years of service. 00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:43.440 Yes. 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.260 Is that correct? And you retired in 1998? 00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:46.949 Mm-hmm. 00:52:46.949 --> 00:52:55.440 Okay, and then did you also, you got a neighborhood watch program started? 00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:03.179 Yes, the same guys that were storm spotters and firemen. 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:09.000 I felt like you were way ahead of your time on on getting all this stuff going. 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:17.000 We had a a fire up here where the there was a Ben Franklin store, 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.400 Yes, yes. I remember that story. 00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:19.969 Big fire. 00:53:19.969 --> 00:53:20.000 Yeah. 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:57.920 I was up all night fighting fire, and I went to school the next day and taught school. I went out and sat down to the high school principal's office, which being athletic director, I checked in with him every day. What are you doing here? This is my job. Oh, well, I didn't think you'd be here today. You was up all night. I said, that's my civil duty. This is my job. 00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.900 Oh, dedicated, 00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:00.349 Yes. 00:54:00.349 --> 00:54:01.670 Absolutely dedicated. 00:54:01.670 --> 00:54:02.119 Yes. 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:05.659 And, you were Citizen of the Year in 1985. 00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:06.320 Yes. 00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:08.179 That's a pretty cool honor. 00:54:08.179 --> 00:54:08.989 I thought it was. 00:54:08.989 --> 00:54:19.579 Yeah. Isn't that when they used to have you like ride in the Christmas parade? And did you ride the Christmas parade like in a car, or did they just award it to you at the banquet? 00:54:19.579 --> 00:54:20.329 At the banquet. 00:54:20.329 --> 00:54:21.239 At the banquet, okay. 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:55.889 I was at a ball game one night. The principal walked up says, oh, by the way, your wife and family is out here eating dinner at the country club. You're supposed to go out there and eat dinner with them. I'll take over. So, I drove out there. I didn't know what's going on. So, they got to talking and giving speeches, and I'm going, I think I know that guy. And pretty soon they gave me the award. 00:54:55.889 --> 00:54:56.699 That's awesome! 00:54:56.699 --> 00:54:57.360 Yes. 00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:05.000 And then I understand, too, that you were, you were a 2010 Wildflower Run honoree? 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:05.039 Weren't you on a t-shirt and everything, on the Wildflower Run t-shirt? Well, that's pretty cool. Well, is there any other stories that you want to tell me about your time here at Bristow that I didn't ask you about? Anything else you want to share? 00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:20.690 Yes. 00:55:20.690 --> 00:55:21.920 No, I don't. 00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:22.699 You don't think so? 00:55:22.699 --> 00:55:24.079 I don't really know. 00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:36.860 Okay, well, I have a couple of other questions for you, but I but these are just kind of fun questions. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention in your lifetime? 00:55:36.860 --> 00:55:39.710 Oh, man, that's a that's a hard question. 00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:42.349 That is a hard question. I'm challenging you. 00:55:42.349 --> 00:55:45.170 I think the the car was. 00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:46.369 For you, okay. 00:55:46.369 --> 00:55:49.309 For me, because that's all I ever 00:55:49.309 --> 00:55:50.809 You were on the road a lot, weren't you? 00:55:50.809 --> 00:55:57.659 Yes, and my dad and I, we, we rebuilt a lot of cars. 00:55:57.659 --> 00:56:03.170 See, I think that's awesome. My kids are real into car building too. 00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:12.619 Yeah, we a transmission was $5. And now what does that ad say, $3000? 00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:13.730 Yeah, it's crazy. 00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:40.250 But, one day we put my friend of mine who we played, he was the postman in basketball, and played, he and I played end in football, and his dad owned a junkyard, we called it back in the old days. So, I could get parts. 00:56:40.250 --> 00:56:42.170 So, you had a free for all out there, didn't ya? 00:56:42.170 --> 00:56:47.150 Yeah, and he helped me, you know, put them in and out. 00:56:47.150 --> 00:56:57.000 Right, right. Well, that's cool. How do you how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:20.730 The world is too many people are self-centered. Too many people feel sorry for themselves. They don't, they're not fighters anymore. I mean, now, I'm talking fighters. I'm talking about getting out there and stealing the basketball at the end of the game and making a basket to win it. 00:57:20.730 --> 00:57:22.230 Right, right. 00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:30.090 Or, you know, or to come to bat and and hit a home run to win the game. 00:57:30.090 --> 00:57:31.769 Right. 00:57:31.769 --> 00:57:34.500 And there's just too many people that are cry babies. 00:57:34.500 --> 00:57:36.690 Like they've lost their fire or something. 00:57:36.690 --> 00:57:37.590 You're, you're right. 00:57:37.590 --> 00:57:50.440 Yeah, yeah. I, I understand that. As you see it, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how would you think you would solve it? 00:57:50.440 --> 00:58:20.710 We are too soft. Now, I was born in '37. We didn't put up with this. Our nation did not put up with this. Germany, they marched, my uncle's made the D-Day invasion. The D-Day invasion was, wow, a guy gets shot right there beside you, and you make it up the hill. 00:58:20.710 --> 00:58:22.000 Right. 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:38.500 We, I remember the president, I lived at [undecipherable] southeast corner of the southeast bedroom was a big old radio. I remember the the president declaring war on Japan. 00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:41.409 How did you feel? How did that make you feel? 00:58:41.409 --> 00:58:42.400 It was scary. 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:46.659 Scary. About how old were you, would you have been? 00:58:46.659 --> 00:58:47.710 Seven. 00:58:47.710 --> 00:58:49.480 So you were little. 00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:57.519 No, I wasn't. I was two, I was probably five, almost six. 00:58:57.519 --> 00:58:59.469 But you that that's like a core memory. 00:58:59.469 --> 00:59:12.460 Yes, see, that was December the seventh. My birthday is on the 12th of January. The hottest my mother carried me the hottest day of the year, summer of the year. 00:59:12.460 --> 00:59:13.269 Right. 00:59:13.269 --> 00:59:18.400 We drove to Muskogee in the snowstorm to give birth. 00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:29.050 Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. But, but you so you remember the feeling of hearing the the declaration of war and how that made you feel. 00:59:29.050 --> 00:59:29.559 Yes. 00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:33.849 And you were fearful about it as a youngster, okay, 00:59:33.849 --> 00:59:37.989 We took naps on Sunday. 00:59:37.989 --> 00:59:39.000 I like that idea. 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:58.619 The the war planes would fly from Oklahoma City over Porum [indecipherable] to Ft. Smith. I would wake up and I would think, oh my gosh, they're coming to bomb us. It would be our planes. 00:59:58.619 --> 00:59:59.519 Right. 00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:00.090 Our war planes. 01:00:00.090 --> 01:00:22.139 But as a kid, that's yeah what you were thinking. Well, how have historic events say, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the 9/11 any natural disasters, world wars or even COVID, have any of those things affected you in your life, aside from what we just talked about? 01:00:22.139 --> 01:01:01.320 Yes. I, Oklahoma City bombing, I was prepared to go down there like other people and help service. I got a phone call from the state office telling me to stay in Bristow, because we were on a main highway. See, okay, and they didn't know if they were going to be bombing, marching up, bombing. 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:01.829 Right. 01:01:01.829 --> 01:01:04.380 And they would need me to stay here. 01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.150 Wow. Okay. 01:01:06.150 --> 01:01:07.110 Now others 01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:11.579 Were you, were you fearful at that time of what was going on in our world? 01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:12.300 Yes, I was. 01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:17.590 Yeah, yeah. I remember, too. It was scary. Um 01:01:17.590 --> 01:01:21.579 Now, not interrupting you, there's been other things like, 01:01:21.579 --> 01:01:24.250 Yeah, go ahead. 01:01:24.250 --> 01:01:30.010 I can't think of what it was crashed in Texas, the space shuttle. 01:01:30.010 --> 01:01:33.309 Oh, yes, right, right. 01:01:33.309 --> 01:01:40.210 And, you know, other things like that was really disturbing, because we never know what was that was it shot down? 01:01:40.210 --> 01:01:41.380 Right. 01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:41.889 You know. 01:01:41.889 --> 01:01:45.000 Right, or like the Twin Towers getting hit. 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:45.130 Yeah, exactly. Well, is there anything else that you would like to share with us? Or, I, honestly, would like to get because I, I would like to hear what Coach Nicholson's words of wisdom are for you to share with future generations. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share to end this. 01:01:45.130 --> 01:02:07.380 Yes, you're right. 01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:09.000 Work hard. 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:53.550 And spend your time with your family. That is important. People about their grandkids or their great grandkids, I say, and their own kids. Enjoy them while you can, because pretty soon, snap a finger, they're going to be off to college and get married and leave. See, I have a great grand I have a grandson that he's worked in Kansas City. He works in California now, and we don't get to see him. 01:02:53.550 --> 01:02:53.969 Right. 01:02:53.969 --> 01:02:59.550 You know. So, you need to enjoy your kids while they're growing up. 01:02:59.550 --> 01:03:03.539 Right. I like that advice. That's good advice. 01:03:03.539 --> 01:03:04.260 That's right. 01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:07.469 And it does. It goes by, it goes by so fast. 01:03:07.469 --> 01:03:08.000 That's right. 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:18.170 It does. Well, your interview will become an important part of the oral history archives for the museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. 01:03:18.170 --> 01:03:18.559 You're welcome. 01:03:18.559 --> 01:03:21.469 And it has definitely been my pleasure. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0071_Charles_Nicholson.xml OHP-0071_Charles_Nicholson.xml
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Title
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Charles Nicholson
Description
An account of the resource
Charles Nicholson, a longtime Bristow resident and coach talks about his life and experiences. Born January 12, 1937, in Muskogee, Oklahoma, Charles discusses his parents' backgrounds and his own education and sports achievements, including being ranked number one in Oklahoma for 15 and under tennis and winning the 1955 Oklahoma State Tennis Singles Championship. He shares stories about his childhood, his marriage to Sharon Allen Scott, and his teaching and coaching career, which included starting the girls' basketball program in Bristow. Charles also reflects on his service as the Creek County Civil Defense Director and his dedication to community safety.
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OHP-0071
Date
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2025/05/09
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audio
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e2103a83190ef8b8447baebc700de5de
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Title
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Pinehill Histories
Subject
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History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
Description
An account of the resource
Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Type
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Oral history.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Robert L. "Bob" McCarty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Clarence "Boyd" Myers
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0008-01_Myers_Clarence.xml
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5.4 OHP-0008-03 Clarence " ; Boyd" ; Myers OHP-0008-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Clarence " ; Boyd" ; Myers Robert L. "Bob" McCarty MP3 1:|13(4)|39(15)|61(1)|87(2)|112(5)|135(1)|155(11)|174(13)|190(8)|211(3)|226(10)|238(14)|254(7)|288(6)|300(8)|326(7)|345(11)|363(5)|413(8)|433(5)|456(14)|488(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0008-01 Myers, Clarence.mp3 Other audio 0 Boyd Myers Family History BMC: This is an interview with Boyd Myers [indecipherable] 10/13/76, time 7:15. BM: That aggravates me every time I think of that—I think the government gave six thousand dollars to that plant down in Texas. And they say it’s gonna be covered with water. BMC: Boyd, on the Pinehill community, to your knowledge when did your dad come into that country? BM: You asked me that on the phone, I think it was 1908, I’m not sure. Boyd Myers talks of his family history in the Pinehill community Bernice ; Boyd ; Boyd Myers ; Bristow ; Burl ; Fay ; Kelly ; Mule Ellen ; Naomi ; Nellie May Blythe ; Pinehill ; Ray ; train ; Virgil Boyd Myers ; family history ; Pinehill Community 232 School Days BMC: To your knowledge, your mother never did go to school there at Pinehill, did she? BM: Oh, I definitely don’t think she did. BMC: How many of you children went to school there at Pinehill? BM: I guess all nine of us did. BMC: Do you remember your first teacher? Memories of school and fairs in the Pinehill community canning ; cattle ; crops ; Effie Curtis ; elections ; fairs ; pie suppers ; Pinehill School ; sewing ; township fair cattle ; crops ; fairs ; school 454 Oil wells, hunting, and school memories BMC: It was on a smaller scale. Well, do you remember hearing say when the first oil well was drilled in that community? BM: No, that was mentioned a while ago. I don’t remember where the first well was drilled. BMC: How old was you when you saw the first well in operation? BM: Well, Bob, most of the wells around there was gas wells. I can remember that they would drill for oil and probably get gas [indecipherable] and they didn’t have any way to cap these wells in like they do now and that gas would roar, come right down the creek and sound like it was close to the house as we were from the creek. And they would blow like that for days before they’d get stopped. Memories of the first oil well, hunting, and school friends and graduation hunting ; Milton Snow ; oil ; oil well ; Olive ; Olive High School oil wells ; Olive High School 705 Work after high school and trying tobacco BM: Well, I went the summer of 1933, after I graduated, I went to the wheat harvest in Kansas. I worked for a dollar and a quarter a day and that wasn’t an eight-hour day, that was from daylight to dark. BMC: That was from sunup, daylight, ‘til dark. BM: And we ate four meals a day. And then later on I came to Tulsa in 1936 and I begged to get a job making thirty-five cents a day. That a seven-day-a-week job, no overtime. I was born at the wrong time. BMC: Anything that you can think of that you’d want to add? Discussion of working after high school graduation, more school memories, and trying tobacco for the first time Beechnut tobacco ; Earnest Rhinehardt ; Floyd Wilson ; Kansas ; light bread ; syrup bucket ; wheat harvest trying tobacco ; working in wheat harvest 935 Farming and a new table BMC: When was the first time that you saw one of the old sorghum mills? BM: Well, now, that wasn’t a cane country right in there so I really don’t remember—seemed like Smith Bruce had one, I believe. Pulled it with a mule, I believe, I’m not too sure of that. BMC: I know there was quite a bit of sorghum cane, I expect about— MM: What did your dad raise out there? What did he raise on his farm? BM: In the agricultural line? Farming memories and the making of a table from a walnut tree corn ; cotton ; grain ; Smith Bruce ; sorghum ; soybeans ; Winkey Creek Bridge Farming ; tables ; walnut 1126 Motorcycles and College BMC: What year—I know that what all [indecipherable] I know that Burl and his first wife made certain trips to California on [indecipherable]. What year did you boys start riding motorcycles? BM: Well, I’d have to do some figuring. I was sixteen when I got my first one. Burl started prior to that, so thirteen to sixteen would be— MM: Twenty-nine. BMC: Twenty-eight or ’29. BM: That’s about it. But Burl started probably in ’24 or ’25. Memories of riding motorcycles and college Bristow ; Business College ; California ; college ; Edmond ; Junior College ; motocycles college ; Riding Motorcycles In this 1976 interview, Clarence “Boyd” Myers (1913-1979) discusses his father’s arrival in the Pinehill Community, his siblings, the Pinehill School and his classmates, early agriculture and cattle, oil drilling in the community, social events such as pie suppers, his early adulthood working in Kansas during the wheat harvest, and the first time he ever tried chewing tobacco. BMC: This is an interview with Boyd Myers [indecipherable] 10/13/76, time 7:15. BM: That aggravates me every time I think of that--I think the government gave six thousand dollars to that plant down in Texas. And they say it' ; s gonna be covered with water. BMC: Boyd, on the Pinehill community, to your knowledge when did your dad1 come into that country? BM: You asked me that on the phone, I think it was 1908, I' ; m not sure. BMC: Now we' ; re on tape. How many brothers came in there with him? How many came in there with him with the Myers family? Do you-- BM: He came alone. BMC: He came alone? BM: He came in on the train, I remember time and time again he told me that he had $7.50 in his pocket when he got in Bristow. BM: When he settled in there, he settled there on the old home place? Or did he settle some place else and then buy the old home place up here? MM: [Inaudible.] BM: I don' ; t know. BMC: Did you ever hear him say what the first place that he lived? BM: I don' ; t remember. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: You got that tape on now? BMC: Yep. BM: Let me tell you something that it wouldn' ; t hurt for this to be taped: You know his nickname was Mule Ellen (ph), did you ever hear that? BMC: Yep, I did. BM: Well, he got the name right there at that school. He was showing off for the girls there, and he rode that mule around that school building and I guess he done everything to-- MM: That sounds like your dad. BM: --that you' ; d expect a mule to do, and they all laughed and carried on ' ; cause the mule didn' ; t behave too well, and that' ; s where he got the name Mule Ellen (ph). BMC: What year, Boyd, was your dad and mother married? BM: I don' ; t know that, either. Well, Verna' ; d (ph) have that in the Bible, she' ; s got the old Bible. MM: We gone and talked to her on-- BMC: I talked to her about forty-five minutes last night. Do--your mother and dad' ; s marriage, how many children were there? I know the answer to it, but-- BM: Nine. BMC: Nine. There was--names were what? BM: Burl, Virgil, Bernice, Boyd, Kelly, Ray, Fay, and (inaudible). BMC: And Naomi. MM: You forgot Naomi. BM: I skipped one, didn' ; t I? Naomi was just younger than Kelly, right. BMC: Right. MM: He needs your mother' ; s maiden name. BMC: Your mother' ; s maiden name was-- BM: Nellie May2. BMC: Nellie May Blythe. BM: B-L-Y-T-H-E. Most people called them " ; Bly," ; B-L-Y, but it' ; s B-L-Y-T-H-E. MM: (inaudible) BMC: To your knowledge, your mother never did go to school there at Pinehill, did she? BM: Oh, I definitely don' ; t think she did. BMC: How many of you children went to school there at Pinehill? BM: I guess all nine of us did. BMC: Do you remember your first teacher? BM: Yes, Effie Curtis (ph). She whopped me about every day. MM: (laughing) BMC: You must' ; ve been an ornery little stinker. UW: [Inaudible.] BM: Don' ; t tell Mike this. UW: --more like our grandson. BMC: What all activities--to your knowledge, what all activity was the school used for? BM: Other than the ABC' ; s, you mean? BMC: Other than the ABC' ; s, other than school purposes. What all was the school used for? What was all the schoolhouse used for, besides the ABC learning? BM: Well, I can remember the pie suppers, I can remember the fairs that I mentioned, and I can remember the elections, and the voting precinct, well elections, I mentioned that. UW: Church. BM: It was used for church, also. BMC: And singing groups. UW: [Inaudible.] BM: Well, church is all I remember. BMC: You said something on--you said fairs. I want you to confirm what I already have: What type of fair was this? BM: It' ; s what they called a township fair. It was a small community fair. BMC: At this fair, what all was exhibited? BM: Oh, just home products like you would at the county fairs, only on a small scale. BMC: Did you ever take anything to these county fairs? BM: I definitely did. BMC: What did you take? BM: Cattle and crops that we grew on the farm. BMC: Did you personally, did you ever win anything at these fairs? BM: Oh, I don' ; t recall but I' ; m sure we did. BMC: To your knowledge, who was the judges at these fairs? BM: I don' ; t remember. MM: [Indecipherable] Dowdy was judge at the-- BM: I think he did, but I don' ; t remember. MM: What did the women show at the fair? BM: Well, they had their sewing and canning and just like they would at the larger fairs, only it was on a smaller scale. BMC: It was on a smaller scale. Well, do you remember hearing say when the first oil well was drilled in that community? BM: No, that was mentioned a while ago. I don' ; t remember where the first well was drilled. BMC: How old was you when you saw the first well in operation? BM: Well, Bob, most of the wells around there was gas wells. I can remember that they would drill for oil and probably get gas [indecipherable] and they didn' ; t have any way to cap these wells in like they do now and that gas would roar, come right down the creek and sound like it was close to the house as we were from the creek. And they would blow like that for days before they' ; d get stopped. BMC: Well they can' ; t cap those-- MM: Did you ask him about the [indecipherable] BMC: Whenever you were growing up, what game was there in that part--in that community? For hunting purposes? BM: Oh, rabbits and squirrels. We' ; d try to trap skunks and opossum and maybe go opossum hunting at night. And fish, we' ; d go down there and catch these little catfish about that big. But we didn' ; t have much time for that, dad kept us busy all the time. BMC: Oh, I know. MM: [Inaudible.] BMC: And your schooling there in Pinehill, do you remember the kids that graduated with you from the eighth grade? BM: Yes, I do. Milton Snow (ph). BMC: Would you name the ones that graduated from the eighth grade with you? BM: Name all of them? BMC: If you can. BM: Well he' ; s definitely one of them, and I can' ; t--I don' ; t remember the rest of them. BMC: What year was that? BM: Well that little old [indecipherable] and I was five when they started, I was born in 1913. BMC: Well, that would put you in school about 1918. MM: [Inaudible.] BMC: And that would put you roughly graduating from Pinehill school in either ' ; 26 or ' ; 27. BM: Well, you figure eight years from the time I started, that' ; d been ' ; 28. BMC: Let' ; s check back here and make sure that that' ; s right. Check back here on 1918, see what, what' ; s on the school rolls in 1918. (sound of pages flipping) BM: I say it' ; d be ' ; 27. BMC: What year, Boyd, did you leave that community? (sound of pages flipping) BM: Well, I went to high school at Bristow for three years, then I missed a year and wound up at Olive and graduated from high school. BMC: You graduated from Olive High School? Then after you graduated from high school you went into what type of business? BM: Well, I went the summer of 1933, after I graduated, I went to the wheat harvest in Kansas. I worked for a dollar and a quarter a day and that wasn' ; t an eight-hour day, that was from daylight to dark. BMC: That was from sunup, daylight, ' ; til dark. BM: And we ate four meals a day. And then later on I came to Tulsa in 1936 and I begged to get a job making thirty-five cents a day. That a seven-day-a-week job, no overtime. I was born at the wrong time. BMC: Anything that you can think of that you' ; d want to add? MM: Did he steal any watermelons? BMC: What, honey? MM: Did you ever steal any watermelons? BM: Not any more than I could eat. MM: Who raised the best watermelons? BM: I really don' ; t know. No, we didn' ; t--I can truthfully say I don' ; t remember us stealing watermelons. MM: Did you ever steal any chickens? BM: Oh, no, no. MM: You didn' ; t go on any of them chicken roasts? BM: No, never did. I' ; ve tried to carry two watermelons on a horse and if you think that isn' ; t fun--and the horse steps on a watermelon. MM: Who was the best girl, who was your girlfriend while you was going to school? BM: Oh, I liked all the girls. But you know, I didn' ; t know there was a difference between boys and girls ' ; til I was about six! BMC: About six you found out-- MM: [Inaudible.] BMC: Yeah, tell me about that, that boy [indecipherable] little bit better than that, he found out about three, I think. MM: Did you ever put any girls' ; pigtails in the inkwell? BMC: Some mischief, what mischief did you get in at school? MM: And I' ; m sure he must' ; ve done some-- BM: Well, I don' ; t know whether you' ; d call this mischief or not but I don' ; t mind telling it, I told you this--they had those outdoor houses at that time, and we was out there one day and that' ; s when I was five years old, that was my first year at school, and Earnest Rhinehardt (ph) and Floyd Wilson (ph) came up there. And they had some Beechnut tobacco and they insisted that I take a chew of tobacco. Well, I didn' ; t want it but they insisted and I started to--well, I put it in my mouth, I couldn' ; t hide it, it burned my mouth. I started to spit it out and they said, " ; Don' ; t spit it out!" ; They said, " ; It' ; ll get sweet after a while." ; Well I don' ; t know whether it got sweet or not, but I started going in circles. And I had the biggest piece of vanilla cake in my gallon bucket that I carried my lunch in, and I couldn' ; t no more eat that cake than I could fly. Oh, it made me sick. MM: What kind of bucket? Syrup bucket or a lard bucket? BM: Syrup, it was a syrup bucket. MM: What' ; d you carry in lunches, we' ; ve never asked anybody. What' ; d they put in your lunches? Biscuits? Probably biscuits. BM: Mom made a lot of light bread. I imagine it was light bread sandwiches. MM: What' ; d you put on ' ; em? BM: Well, I remember one thing was peanut butter and jelly. MM: Your dad always killed a lot of hogs so you had plenty of meat. BMC: Boyd, when was the first time-- MM: Probably sausage sandwich, that I would imagine. BMC: When was the first time that you saw one of the old sorghum mills? BM: Well, now, that wasn' ; t a cane country right in there so I really don' ; t remember--seemed like Smith Bruce had one, I believe. Pulled it with a mule, I believe, I' ; m not too sure of that. BMC: I know there was quite a bit of sorghum cane, I expect about-- MM: What did your dad raise out there? What did he raise on his farm? BM: In the agricultural line? MM: What did he raise, uh-huh, something besides kids? (laughs) BMC: In the agricultural line, what all did Alex3 raise? BM: Well, the money crop, if there was any money, was cotton. And corn and small grain. But in the later years they tried to grow soybeans--and grow ' ; em but they didn' ; t have any way to harvest them. MM: Your mother was good at canning and stuff. BM: Oh, mom worked all the time. She would churn this old-type churn and be reading the Bible or some other book at the same time. BMC: I can' ; t think of anything else. MM: Oh what about that--who made that table and chairs, and talk about how that was made up, your mother [indecipherable]. Somebody told me that you [indecipherable] something you made, a dining room set. BM: Oh, that' ; s after we got into high school. Fay and Ray made the chairs, I think Kelly made the table. MM: Tell us about that. BM: Well, this was mom' ; s idea again. Money was very scarce, we didn' ; t have any money. Lot of times we' ; d be Sunday' ; d roll around and they' ; d all go to town and I wouldn' ; t even go to town. Why should I go to town, I didn' ; t have any money. So this big nice walnut tree was down there close to Winkey Creek Bridge and mom suggested we cut that tree and cure it and use it in the school--at Bristow High School. So that' ; s where the table and chairs went. MM: Tell us about-- BMC: That' ; s what table and chairs-- MM: I know, but I want to know what kind of table, I want him to tell us about it-- BM: Well they was walnut. MM: Walnut? BM: Walnut dining table. MM: How many sit the table, how many chairs? BM: Well I believe there was six chairs, isn' ; t that right? UW: Did Bernice have those? Didn' ; t she have those? BM: No, Fay and Ray made the chairs. And Kelly made the table. UW: Well I know--who has them, though? I know who made them but who has them? BM: Well [inaudible]. BMC: In later years-- BM: Bernie has them now. BMC: Bernie has them now. BM: Right. BMC: Is that right? MM: I' ; ve heard about those, that they were things of outstanding beauty, like art. BM: Well, I' ; ll show you what I made for [indecipherable]. MM: Okay, what did you make? BMC: Uh-- BM: I made a chifforobe out of solid oak. MM: Cut it off the property again? BM: No, no, I did not. BMC: What year--I know that what all [indecipherable] I know that Burl and his first wife made certain trips to California on [indecipherable]. What year did you boys start riding motorcycles? BM: Well, I' ; d have to do some figuring. I was sixteen when I got my first one. Burl started prior to that, so thirteen to sixteen would be-- MM: Twenty-nine. BMC: Twenty-eight or ' ; 29. BM: That' ; s about it. But Burl started probably in ' ; 24 or ' ; 25. BMC: And how many of you boys at the present time, how many boys still ride those motorcycles? BM: Fay rides as a hobby. MM: Kelly? Does he ride? UW: Burl still rides [indecipherable]. BMC: Well that time I talked to Burl, he was, he was talkin' ; about hunting, hunting deer. BM: Well he sold his motorcycle and I doubt whether he rides now or not. MM: Kelly probably rides to games-- BM: Well I' ; m sure Kelly rides with his kids. BMC: Well is Kelly, is he still in the trick riding business? BM: Oh, no, no. Kelly got banged up and then he, he wouldn' ; t look at a motorcycle until the kids got of age and then he got back into it again. But no trick riding or anything like that. BMC: Just normal, just normal everyday riding. MM: Well the kids your age, all of you kids are better than average educated. How many of you went to college? BM: Well, I don' ; t know whether we' ; re better than average. We, we finished high school and Kelly went a little bit to the junior college there in Bristow. UW: Brooke (ph) went on to business college. BM: Yeah, she went to business college. UW: And Bernice-- BM: Well, now, she went to Edmond. UW: She was-- BM: --to teacher' ; s college. UW: --engineering-- BM: But she probably wouldn' ; t even want to hear about that. She started, and would go a while and then have to teach and then go back again and have to teach on account of finances-- UW: I think it' ; s commendable that people can do that-- BMC: Yes, I agree, but I really think that-- MM: I think, I think, I know that they did better than average-- UW: It' ; s hard to do, but they, you know, she did it. BM: Well, mom was the driver along that line. She always encouraged education. And believe it or not, they wanted to send me on to engineering school, but I couldn' ; t--I couldn' ; t stand for them to be working at home and me be off to school. UW: [Inaudible.] end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0008-01_Myers_Clarence.xml OHP-0008-01_Myers_Clarence.xml
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Clarence "Boyd" Myers
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In this 1976 interview, Clarence “Boyd” Myers (1913-1979) discusses his father’s arrival in the Pinehill Community, his siblings, the Pinehill School and his classmates, early agriculture and cattle, oil drilling in the community, social events such as pie suppers, his early adulthood working in Kansas during the wheat harvest, and the first time he ever tried chewing tobacco.
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OHP-0008-01
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1973-10-13
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Oral History
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Wanda Newton
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Corwin Henkins
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5.4 OHP-0024-02 Corwin Henkins OHP-0024-02 0:00-42:10 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Corwin Henkins Wanda Newton MP3 1:|89(11)|126(4)|145(9)|179(15)|227(4)|279(15)|309(2)|359(16)|418(2)|461(15)|514(4)|553(8)|606(16)|651(4)|695(6)|723(8)|750(1)|795(7)|837(9)|877(14)|899(2)|927(3)|955(15)|985(12)|1015(4)|1073(12)|1089(4)|1125(4)|1177(7)|1199(5)|1222(8)|1255(1)|1281(3)|1311(5)|1339(13)|1368(4)|1393(12)|1427(2)|1468(1)|1497(3)|1547(9)|1610(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0024 Henkins, Corwin.mp3 Other audio 589 Family Background and Life in Bristow WN: Ed Fox and— Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe— WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don’t ask me, you’re giving me information— I don’t know. CH: I think that’s right. I’m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that— CH: and uh— WN: —and you said you’d knew my mother— Family background and the early days of Bristow Albert Kelly ; Bob Williams ; Bristow ; Chandler ; Cherokee ; Civil War ; Corwin Henkins ; Cotton ; Creeco Mill ; Dysentery ; Ed Fox ; Klingensmith ; Kremlin ; Lucy West ; Nelly Strain ; Orva Henkins ; Prairie Grove ; Sapulpa ; Seneca ; Stroud ; Train ; Tulsa Civil War ; Early Bristow ; Family History https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Waneuma Earlene " ; Wanda" ; Newton's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13027907/edward-b.-fox Edward B. Fox's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7525025/corwin-thacker-henkins Corwin Thacker Henkins's Grave 885 School Day's WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don’t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my— the sister Orva’s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to— WN: (Laughter) CH: —whether I needed it or not— WN: Just for a good example— CH: —so the rest of em’ wouldn’t think she’s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her— Basketball ; Blackwell ; Charlie Pickett ; Daniel Boone ; Football ; Neva Carmen ; School house ; Washington School Classmates ; School Days ; School Sports ; Teachers 1212 Crops and Old Bristow Businesses WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That’s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids— or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty— whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That’s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton— WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you’d go to that main street, and you couldn’t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! Which crops were most common and Memorable Businesses Boardwalks ; Brownsville ; Bullington ; Civil War Pension ; Cotton ; First National Bank ; Frisco Depot ; Halliburton ; Ice Plant ; Livery Stable ; Maroon's ; Millinery ; Oilfield Buisnesses ; Crops In Bristow 1357 The Flu Epidemic, and Doc King WN: You don’t remember that. Is there— well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came— CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up— there was people— I’d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em’ on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building— what’s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth— second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that— WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I’m pretty sure that King (PH) and— I know King (PH) was here and I think— WN: How about Schrader (PH) or— CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he— CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my— The Flu Epidemic ; How and Who treated it Birth Certificate ; Coppedge ; Deep Fork Slugs ; Doc King ; Flu Epidemic ; Midwife ; Ray Mars ; Schrader Flu Epidemic ; Medical 1468 Weddings, Indians and The Law Men 1473 Brick Streets and Childhood Entertainment WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn’t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets— CH: Yeah, bricked em’. M-HM, yeah. WN: —and how long did it take em’? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don’t have any idea on that. EF: Didn’t you say one man— colored man laid most of the bricks— CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I— I’d as a kid just go down there and watch em’. I don’t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must’ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it’d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? Where Did the Bricked Streets Come From and What did Children in Bristow do for Fun? Brick Streets ; Paved Streets ; Railroad ; Railroad Tracks ; Roller Skate ; Social Life ; Wagon Bricked Streets ; Childhood ; Childhood Games ; Entertainment 1675 Weddings, Lumber, Pipelines and Jessie Allen WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember— can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the— well wait a minute, let’s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn’t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours’ time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know— lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or— Weddings and The Story of Jessie Allen and the Pipeline Crew Bacone ; Federal Marshals ; Jessie Allen ; Lee Johnson ; Lumber Yard ; Pipeline ; Police Officers ; Shivaree ; Wedding ; Yuchi Indians High School Indians ; Law ; Lumber ; Pipeline ; Weddings 1810 High School Sports and The Saint Louis Cardinals CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite— WN: Yes. CH: —an announcer for— WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn’t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the— if it hadn’t been for sports he’d of starved to death. He couldn’t do nothing else— WN: (Laughter) CH: —he wasn’t fit for nothing. Never done a day’s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news— CH: Yes, he did. WN: — in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any— France Laux and The Saint Louis Cardinals, Snakes and Confusion in the Stadium Cardinals ; Football ; France Laux ; Mr. Purdy ; Saint Louis Cardinals ; Snake Indians Football ; Snake Indians ; Sports Stadium https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153710693/france-laux France Laux's Grave 1973 World War I and Dedicated Parks WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that— how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I— I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn’t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him— I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, “I want to go anyway.” and he said, “Well we’ll send you” and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well— CH: They had— they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid’s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that— WN: But do you— do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock— WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That— CH: Oh did the tear it out? World War I, Soldiers, and Parks Dedicated to Them Boy Scouts ; Clad Purdy ; Dr. Schrader ; Gene Wrine ; Klingensmith Park ; National Guard ; World War I Dedication ; Parks ; World War I N 35° 49.972 W 096° 24.045 17 Klingensmith Park https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMZX9M_Klingensmith_Park_Bristow_OK Klingensmith Park 2535 Radio, The Abraham's, Opera House and Other Gems of Bristow WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920’s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn’t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I’ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here— WN: Oh. EF: — in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had— I had— when let’s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What’d they call it? KOX? K— first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn’t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that’s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the— what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. Memories of People, Places and Activities in Bristow Abraham Building ; Chrystal Set ; Cole Park ; Cotton Gin ; Depew ; Dr. Harse ; Ed Abraham ; EE Mounds ; EH Mount ; Flappers ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; HL House's Hardware ; Joe Abraham ; John D. Rockefeller ; KVOO ; Nichols ; Oil Boom ; Roland Hotel ; Statehood ; Territorial Enterprise ; The Record ; Uphus Abraham Building ; Buisnesses ; Radio 35° 50.003′ N, 96° 23.437′ W 17 Abraham Building https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92445965/william-c.-newton William C. " ; Bill" ; Newton's Grave In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Interviewer: Wanda Newton (WN) Interviewee: Corwin Henkins (CH) (1899-1999) Other Persons: Edward Fox (EF), Bill Newton (BN) Date of Interview: March 16th 1990 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0024 Side A and Side B 00:00 to 42:10 Abstract: In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father' ; s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. WN: Ed Fox and-- Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe-- WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don' ; t ask me, you' ; re giving me information-- I don' ; t know. CH: I think that' ; s right. I' ; m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that-- CH: and uh-- WN: --and you said you' ; d knew my mother-- CH: Yeah. WN: --too? Nelly (PH)? Nelly Strain (PH). CH: And, I especially knew one of her brothers and I can' ; t remember which one it was-- WN: Well it was Walter (PH) I presume-- CH: --Was Walter (PH) a-- WN: --A wrestler-- CH: --A wrestler, that' ; s-- WN: --he and Bob Williams (PH). CH: That' ; s-- I told you-- WN: (Laughter) WN: I asked her. I asked him coming over if-- if she was kin to Bob Williams (PH) and he said no. Wasn' ; t though-- WN: No but they were good friends, see. CH: Well that' ; s the connection there. WN: Yeah. CH: Just friends. WN: Uh-- now first of all, I want to say this is March the 17th 1990. We are going to use this in our library for future historical reference, so I want to be sure-- EF: How about 16th? WN: Is it the 16th? Oh gah, I' ; m always a day back or forward or something. (Laughter from all) WN: Okay, now tell me Mr. Henkins when were you born? The month, the day and the year. CH: May the 1st 1899. WN: That was my father' ; s birthday! His was May 1st 1891. CH: 91? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. Okay, now then can you tell me a little bit about your parents and your grandparents? CH: Well, my father and mother moved here in 1902, to Bristow-- WN: To Bristow. CH: -- and I' ; ll tell you this if you want to know it. Dad come down ahead of time on the train. He stopped Tulsa, Sapulpa, Bristow, Stroud and Chandler. Got off the train, walked out to residents some place, asked whoever answered the door for a drink of water. What he was hunting was good drinking water. He didn' ; t care nothing about the size of the town or anything, he wanted good water. Everything was out of a well you see, there wasn' ; t any running water any place. Bristow had the best water and that' ; s the reason he decided-- WN: Oh well! CH: --On Bristow. WN: Well that' ; s exciting to know. Do you know anything at all about your grandparents? CH: Not very much. WN: Not very much. Don' ; t have any idea where they came from? CH: Oh yeah, they-- my grandfather came from Pennsylvania. He settled in North Missouri and not on my father' ; s side, on my mother' ; s side I know very little about em' ; other than they was bout' ; fifty miles east of Kansas City. WN: Well now, can you tell me any-- CH: My dad was in the Civil War. UI: Oh yes! I wanna know. You know that for sure? CH: I know it for sure because I drew a Civil War pen-- I have a (Indecipherable) of that. I drew a Civil War pension and I-- not many people my age. They say that they think you' ; re crazy-- WN: (Laughter) CH: -- and I was about nine years old when my dad died, and my mother drew twenty-seven dollars a month. I drew three dollars a month until I was eighteen years old-- WN: Well how exciting. CH: -- and that was supposed to buy my school books. WN: Well do you remember-- did your father ever tell you any Civil War tales or anything? Any adventures he had? CH: Well there' ; s one-- EF: you tell-- CH: --about the brother? EF: No, go ahead and tell that one and then I' ; ll-- remind me-- CH: Back then they was North Missouri and Missouri was right along the line, it didn' ; t care-- the young boys didn' ; t care which side of the war they was on. Everybody else was going to war and they wanted to join. Well, one of my brothers-- my father' ; s brothers joined the South and my dad joined the North. And they know that they was in one battle together. Same place and it was-- you' ; ll know-- EF: Against each other in one battle-- CH: You oughta know the name of the-- WN: Was it-- (Talking at the same time) WN: -- Prairie Grove? CH: It' ; s Arkansas. EF: It was out of Prairie Grove. CH: Yeah in there somewhere. Anyway, here is the part about us. My dad came home ; the brother never did. WN: Oh-- CH: They don' ; t know-- WN: What happened. CH: --what happened, see. WN: That' ; s sad. Yeah, that' ; s sad. CH: Could be that my dad shot his own brother. WN: (Laughter) CH: (Indecipherable) trying to say-- WN: Yeah. CH: That' ; s possible, not at all likely-- EF: And down at (Indecipherable) River in Tennessee, wasn' ; t it that he won an award and he made that pipe? I still got it-- CH: Oh yeah. Yeah-- EF: And there' ; s the (Indecipherable) out of the (Indecipherable). WN: Oh really? EF: He didn' ; t set it in the pipe. CH: He' ; s-- he' ; s-- he' ; s-- EF: I' ; ve got it and-- CH: -- He' ; s got the pipe-- WN: Well you have the history of the-- CH: Great-- EF: Well no, I just got it all up here. WN: Well you-- CH: Well now, he' ; s got the-- he' ; s got the old papers of my dad' ; s-- where they went to while they was in the-- EF: Yeah. CH: --in the-- WN: and his discharge papers and everything? CH: Yeah-- EF: (Indecipherable) WN: Yeah, yeah M-HM, they did. Well-- well tell me, how did your parents get to Oklahoma. Did they make the run originally-- CH: They made the-- yeah. Now they made the run. The one up-- would that be the Cherokee? WN: Well it could be. CH: I guess. Anyways that' ; s no connection with em' ; coming to Bristow. They made that and sailed north of Enid, in there some place. I didn' ; t know the name of the town-- WN: Yeah-- EF: Kremlin! It seemed like a name of Kremlin comes-- CH: Kremlin' ; s it-- EF: Okay. CH: --That' ; s the closest town and they liked to starve to death picking up bones and-- WN: That' ; s what my grandfather did. CH: --and selling em' ; , so they went back to Missouri. WN: Uh-huh. CH: and then later on, see I wasn' ; t born then. That was in-- WN: 1889? CH: 80-- 89? WN: Or 91? CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. WN: Yeah, okay. CH: One of em' ; . It was-- it was that particular run up there then another run in Oklahoma City. This is what-- I think they called it-- I don' ; t know. Cherokee I believe. WN: Okay. CH: Anyway, they made that and my father and mother and my mother' ; s brother, which was single, and my mother' ; s sister which was not married, and then the half-brother of mine all made the run together and they all settled on the-- what is it six hundred and forty? EF: Section probably. CH: Section-- EF: (Inaudible) CH: They cornered and they built-- they built one nice house. My mother cooked for all of em' ; . They built a little shack on the other four to (Indecipherable) WN: Yes, so they can-- CH: All right here in the corner. WN: -- declare their homestead. Do you remember any outstanding things that happened to you as a child while you were in that area? CH: See I wasn' ; t there-- WN: You weren' ; t there? CH: I wasn' ; t born yet. That was before I was born. This run and settlement. It was in 89 wasn' ; t it? WN: There was one in 18-- CH: That' ; s the one they made, the 89 run-- WN: The 89-- CH: --see I wasn' ; t born til' ; 99, ten years later-- WN: Yeah. CH: --but my two sisters, Orva-- you might-- WN: Well I remember my mother, Orva Hinkle (PH)-- CH: Yeah-- WN: My father-- EF: Orva Henkins. WN: Well, Henkins-- I knew it was-- CH: Well now she made this run with us and his mother made it. See his mother and this Orva were sisters-- WN: Sisters? CH: --and his mother was the-- one of the two first school teachers in this town. WN: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- CH: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- EF: They taught at different schools, I think-- CH: No, taught at the same schools! -- EF: Same school? CH: --This old church building right down here on-- right by the railroad track. It' ; s not there now-- EF: At ninth, I think. CH: Yeah, pretty close to where that-- EF: Creeco Mill? CH: Where they shelled peanuts, I mean-- WN: Oh-- CH: Pecans. WN: Pecans, down at the Creeco Mill-- EF: Creeco Mill. CH: Yeah. WN: and there was a church there-- CH: An old church there and that' ; s where they held school. WN: Well let me ask you, did your mother and father farm while they were in Bristow or what did they do-- CH: He was a carpenter. WN: He was a carpenter, and you attended-- CH: My mother was a milliner. That' ; s what they called-- made the hats back then-- WN: Yes! I-- did she sell her shop to Mrs. Klingensmith (PH) or-- CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) were together-- WN: Were together? I-- CH: Yeah. WN: --have been looking in some older newspapers-- CH: (Indecipherable) WN: --and I saw this ad-- I saw a little thing in the news-- early newspaper down there, where that she bought in with Ms. Klingingsmith (PH) or something. CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) went in together. EF: Uh, I-- WN: and their ad had (Indecipherable). CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. Had what? WN: Had-- no had Henkins-- EF: Henkins. WN: Henkins. CH: I don' ; t remember that part now-- EF: I got something that-- he can verify this. My grandmother went out in the cotton field cause they just had houses and all of the town was cotton fields and didn' ; t she find, Albert Kelly SR. out there with Dysentery so bad and doctored em' ; back to health. CH: Well you-- you' ; ve got me on who it was but I can remember the story about her finding somebody-- EF: Yeah. Well that' ; s what I hear but-- WN: Albert Kelly SR.? EF: M-HM WN: Well that' ; s interesting to know-- CH: Now, I know we knew Albert Kelly-- EF: Yeah I know that, but-- CH: I worked for him in the grocery store-- EF: --you or someone told me it was Albert, but I don' ; t know-- WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don' ; t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my-- the sister Orva' ; s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --whether I needed it or not-- WN: Just for a good example-- CH: --so the rest of em' ; wouldn' ; t think she' ; s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I don' ; t remember too well, been years-- cause that' ; s a lot-- we' ; re talking bout' ; a lot of years. WN: That' ; s right. CH: See, I left here in 1927. WN: Well I was seven years old when you left then-- CH: And that' ; s the last time I ever remember even seeing your mother, would be then. Oh I might' ; ve seen her on the street maybe coming back through or something-- WN: But-- CH: -- I seen your dad occasionally. WN: Yes. Well let me ask you, how far did you get in school? CH: Finished high school. WN: You finished high school. Where was the high school at that time? Did you finish it here? CH: Over on first street. WN: On first street. Where the Washington School is now? CH: That' ; d be the Washington-- EF: Across from mother and them over there? CH: Yeah. EF: Was that the high school? CH: Yeah. EF: I' ; m learning something. CH: Yeah, a two story high school-- WN: Well, I think-- I keep thinking that those steps over there that are leading up to that wall there, were the steps to the original high school. I wish you' ; d look at em' ; when you take me home. CH: I don' ; t much believe so. I believe-- WN: You don' ; t think they are? CH: I believe it' ; s set back a ways-- the school. It was two story, I remember that. WN: Yes, I remember a picture mother had of it and I remember her saying that the High School yell for the basketball team was, " ; booma' ; like a chicka' ; lika' ; who are we? We' ; re the girls of BIT" ; or (Indecipherable) CH: When did your mother-- your mother graduated from High School here? WN: I guess-- I know my aunt Mabel (PH) did, yes I' ; m sure my-- CH: What year? WN: -- now why would you ask me that? (Laughter) CH: I was just wondered if it was anywhere close to-- I graduated for the-- with a whole slug of Carmens (PH). WN: Well now, I' ; m sure it was in the paper down there. You were on one of the first-- CH: (Indecipherable) Carmen (PH) was in our-- my class and Neva Carmen (PH)-- EF: Neva (PH). Yeah. CH: -- and uh-- WN: You were an-- CH: Gladys (PH) WN: --early football player there. CH: What? WN: You were an early football player-- CH: I was. Played on the first football team Bristow ever had with a coach. WN: With a coach. CH: 1917. WN: Well that' ; s interesting-- CH: -- and I don' ; t know of any of em' ; to my knowledge that' ; s still alive but one, Charlie Pickett (PH). He lived in-- EF: Blackwell. CH: Blackwell, Oklahoma. EF: Nursing home. CH: He' ; s in a nursing home. WN: Well, can you remember how many people graduated from your class? CH: Wasn' ; t too many, I know that. EF: He played with (Indecipherable)-- CH: I think in that book-- who' ; s got that book? EF: Joe Ihle had it. I gave it to him, he' ; s supposed to-- CH: That Orva made-- WN: He' ; s taking good care of it, huh? EF: I don' ; t know, he better. WN: (Laughter) CH: She-- my sister, Orva made me a book and she called it-- what was it? Purple and gold. That' ; s when they first had the first colors, purple and gold. A football career-- EF: Yeah. CH: --and there' ; s a bunch of pictures in it. You haven' ; t seen it? WN: No, I haven' ; t seen it-- CH: I gave it to him, he oughta bring it out and let her see it-- EF: Well, I don' ; t have it right now. WN: Well, they' ; re trying to work out some kind of a thing for this big reunion and they' ; re trying to get all the historical things together and they' ; re getting some pictures made off of some of the things like you all-- CH: I give it to him and told him I didn' ; t care what they done with it. I was real proud of it. It' ; s got all the old football players from-- WN: Oh! CH: --from the very first foot-- high school football team and the first coach they ever had clear up until 1950-- EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it as coach of something. CH: Huh? EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it. Corey (PH)! CH: (Indecipherable) Corey (PH)? EF: Yeah! CH: I think that was connected with-- EF: Baseball. CH: Baseball, yeah. WN: Well I' ; ll tell you, they' ; ll put it in acid proof things, so that nothing will happen to it. Whatever, you know whatever it be-- CH: I told him I don' ; t care what happens to it, only I no one' ; s just shoved back on the corner. He' ; d just well keep it at his own house-- WN: That' ; s right. CH: If he' ; s gonna do that with it. WN: Well I think they' ; re planning on that-- CH: It' ; s got a lot of pictures in it. One picture-- one teacher I went to school with, probably a lot of people don' ; t know that. Maybe some of the kids went to school with her. Right over there at that high school, she was Daniel Boone' ; s (PH) great-great granddaughter. WN: Oh. CH: Taught school here as Mrs. Boone (PH). WN: Mrs. Boone (PH). CH: Miss Boone (PH)! WN: Oh Miss Boone (PH). Oh, okay. Well now let me ask you, how far did you live from the school? Do you remember how you-- how you got to school-- CH: About two blocks. Walked. WN: Oh you walked then. So you didn' ; t-- CH: Now that was a grade school then, wasn' ; t it? EF: Well, don' ; t ask me! WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That' ; s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids-- or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty-- whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That' ; s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton-- WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you' ; d go to that main street, and you couldn' ; t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! WN: Someone said there was a livery stable right bout' ; in the middle of-- CH: There was. EF: He worked for it some. CH: It caught fire one time and a bunch of horses burned up in it, I remember that. Right-- the livery stable was pretty close to where-- it was either where the First National Bank is now, or one block south of that. Right in there. WN: Well now, do you remember the Frisco Depot being in the center of sixth street there? Do you remember when it was in-- CH: Where is it now? WN: It' ; s moved over between sixth and seventh now, but it was at one time supposedly out in the middle of sixth street and they moved it. CH: You got me there. WN: You don' ; t remember that, okay. Did you ever work at any of the fields out? Did you ever when you were young do any of the oilfield work? CH: Oh yeah I taught everyone oilfield work. I went (Indecipherable) -- EF: Well he was out there when Halliburton come out on his first job, you told me. CH: 19-- I want to talk to her about Halliburton. I think she knows them people down at Fort Ramsay-- live right in-- what' ; s their names? EF: Maroon' ; s (PH). WN: Oh yes, Maroon' ; s (PH)! CH: Well I see-- I' ; ve seen them every day for the last month there at Fort Ramsay, Texas-- WN: Oh. CH: --when I' ; ve been down there-- WN: Oh, well they left-- left their corner-- they still live here, they just leave their house and go down there and have a good time. That' ; s what they' ; re doing. CH: Yeah. WN: Yeah. CH: And we was just talking the other day, something bout (Indecipherable) and I said, well I knew her of course but I couldn' ; t think of your mother' ; s name to save my life-- WN: My-- CH: --and they couldn' ; t either. WN: -- my father only has one living brother now and he lives down at Brownsville, Texas. He was a citrus brewer down there for a long time. Can you remember any of the things that your mother did, like did she make soap or did she do anything real pioneerish-- CH: I' ; m sure. They made soap back then and I know this, she dried lots of fruit on the roof-- WN: On the roof of your-- CH: -- dried apricots and apples and I guess that' ; s about all. WN: Well, did you help your mother with your laundry any at all? CH: Did I help? WN: Uh-Huh. CH: Not if I could help it! WN: Okay. (Laughter) Do you-- CH: I had two sisters and-- WN: --but did you have a cow in town? CH: Oh yeah! I' ; d delivered milk all over town, nickel a quart. WN: But just-- CH: Nickel a quart. WN: Nickel a quart. Just from your cow? Or did-- CH: Oh yeah. WN: Well at one point in time you said that there was a community pasture or something up here-- CH: I' ; ve taken-- I-- we took our cow out there and I had a pony and I' ; d deliver cows to your-- one to your house and one to-- WN: Oh. CH: --certain ones for I don' ; t know a little money of some kind I suppose, bound to be. But it was a community pasture and it was right pretty close to right in here. WN: That' ; s what I thought. That' ; s what I' ; ve heard that it was up in this area. CH: A little closer to town-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I think. WN: --A little. Up maybe where the sand pipe is-- CH: No, is it down-- where is the hospital, right here? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. CH: Alright it was right between here and the hospital-- WN: Was it? Well that' ; s interesting to know. Do you remember anything at all-- did you butcher anything-- CH: Oh yeah. I worked for Bullington (PH) (Indecipherable) and helped-- and done all the butchering. When I was a teenager, we' ; d go out east of town down on (Indecipherable) had what they called a slaughter house down there and me and old man Bullington (PH) would go down and kill a beef. I' ; d load it into my little cart that I delivered meat in and bring it back up and put it in the ice. I done all the butchering. WN: Where' ; d you get your ice? CH: From the ice plant. WN: We had the ice plant-- CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? Victor' ; s (PH)-- WN: Victor' ; s (PH) ?CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? WN: Victor' ; s (PH) had the ice plant? CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? EF: I don' ; t know ; this is before my time-- WN: Let-- let-- EF: Just across the railroad track on the left there. CH: What' ; s there now? EF: Bank. CH: Bank, yeah. WN: Bank. It' ; s gone. Well let me ask you, somebody called and asked me the other day if there-- if I had read any early accounts of a brick maker or a brick factory here in Bristow. Do you remember any kind of a brick-- anybody-- CH: You know it ; it runs my mind it was but I can' ; t come up with nothing-- WN: --somebody who made bricks-- well we' ; re looking for somebody who made bricks. We' ; re trying to find out where the bricks for that little church down there, that was a Christian Science church but before that, wasn' ; t it a little Episcopalian church? The first little brick church in Bristow. CH: It runs my mind that it was a brick factory there, but I can' ; t come up with-- I can' ; t say for sure. WN: You don' ; t remember that. Is there-- well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came-- CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up-- there was people-- I' ; d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em' ; on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building-- what' ; s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth-- second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that-- WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I' ; m pretty sure that King (PH) and-- I know King (PH) was here and I think-- WN: How about Schrader (PH) or-- CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he-- CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my-- EF: Who delivered-- CH: Birth Certificate. Huh? EF: Pardon me, go ahead. I just wondered who delivered me? I come in seventeen. CH: When I was trying to get my birth certificate, I had trouble getting it because I didn' ; t have the doctor, and midwife and they was all dead and my mother couldn' ; t get any of the information I finally went to Doc King (PH) and he says, well Hank-- everybody called me Hank-- he said, Hank if you can' ; t get one-- says, I know you was alive when you was about two years old. He said if you can' ; t get one I' ; ll give you one because I' ; ve doctored you ever since coming to Bristow. So he was the doctor when I come to Bristow in 1902. I know he was here then. WN: Well did-- was your mother ever a midwife? Did she ever do anything like that? CH: I couldn' ; t tell you about that. I imagine so, probably. WM: Do you remember what kind of medicines you took-- they took during the flu epidemic-- CH: No, I know they had something. Dr. King (PH) give you something called Deep Fork Slugs. WN: (Laughter) Deep Fork Slugs? CH: Yeah, that' ; s exactly what it was. It' ; s for-- in the spring for the Flu you know, they didn' ; t call it Flu then. WN: (Laughter) CH: Yeah, Deep Fork Slugs. WN: Oh! CH: Big ole capsule like thing and I think it' ; s kind of-- put the medicine in it their selves ya know and just get the end caps. Ray Mars (PH) was a druggist he done most of it. WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn' ; t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets-- CH: Yeah, bricked em' ; . M-HM, yeah. WN: --and how long did it take em' ; ? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don' ; t have any idea on that. EF: Didn' ; t you say one man-- colored man laid most of the bricks-- CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I-- I' ; d as a kid just go down there and watch em' ; . I don' ; t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must' ; ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it' ; d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? WN: No! No I don' ; t. They' ; ve always been paved as far as I' ; m concerned. EF: Yeah. WN: I do remember when they paved eleventh street though because I-- CH: Well it wasn' ; t brick though was it? WN: No it wasn' ; t brick, but I-- I remember I got to roller skate down the hill and take the wagon down the hill. I thought that was so exciting and you didn' ; t even have to worry about cars then. (Laughter) Oh, well do you-- can you tell me just a little bit about the kind of social life you had as a teenager and some of the rules and regulations or how you courted or-- CH: Oh, now I don' ; t know too much about it, I wasn' ; t interested in anything like that. There wasn' ; t a whole lot went on. WN: You mean you weren' ; t interested in the girls or anything? CH: No, not then. WN: (Laughter) Well what did you do for entertainment? CH: Well, there wasn' ; t much. I' ; ll tell you there wasn' ; t much. Just go for a walk and things like that. I can remember on Sunday a whole bunch of kids would go out about this time of year, huntin' ; first little ole flowers to come out. Out here on-- right about where the hospital is, where we' ; d all congregate and wonder around. WN: Well, my mother used to say they enjoyed walking at the railroad tracks. CH: Yeah. WN: Did you ever do that? CH: I expect I have. WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember-- can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the-- well wait a minute, let' ; s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn' ; t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours' ; time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know-- lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or-- CH: I knew-- I knew (Indecipherable) which is an old time (Indecipherable) and city police. (Indecipherable) was sheriff, what' ; s his name? Johnson (PH)? EF: Lee (PH). CH: Lee Johnson (PH). EF: You knew Allen (PH) too. CH: Allen (PH). EF: I' ; m gonna bring up that story when you was on the pipeline. CH: Oh. EF: Tell her about that-- CH: Jessie Allen (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: Jessie Allen (PH)? Oh tell me about-- CH: He wasn' ; t a police! EF: Tell her that story. WN: Oh, he was a marshal wasn' ; t he? EF: Marshal. WN: Well thank-- CH: Well not Jessie Allen (PH). EF: Well now go ahead and tell that story. CH: Jessie Allen (PH), Indians raised him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: and he married an Indian and he was almost an Indian but he wasn' ; t. And they-- I was just a kid and I was working for (Indecipherable). EF: Lumber yard. CH: Lumber-- in the lumber business and they leased a wagon out to-- to this pipeline crew to-- I' ; d haul the crew out to lay the pipeline out. Anyway, they' ; d come to Jessie Allen' ; s (PH) place out here and he come down, told em' ; they wasn' ; t gonna cross-- and this-- and this crew foreman told me he said " ; Go on across kid!" ; I was just a kid, probably fifteen, sixteen years old and I said, " ; No, not me that' ; s Jessie Allen. (PH)" ; and he had a rifle across' ; d his saddle of his horse and this guy says " ; Well we can' ; t get him to talk to us." ; and I said " ; No he was Indian raised and he' ; s just that much Indian." ; And I said, " ; I' ; m not driving across' ; d there." ; And I don' ; t know how it was straightened out but he stopped em' ; and they had to come back and get the-- EF: Three or four days you had-- they had-- CH: Yeah, they held the whole crew up three or four days but this pipeline guy was going on across and he' ; d a shot him sure of the world, cause he' ; d already shot several people as far as I (Inaudible). WN: Did you ever-- did you ever have any confrontations with any of the Indian youth around this area? CH: Indian? WN: Yeah, I noticed where the Indian youth played baseball a lot of times. CH: Yeah. WN: The Yuchi' ; s. CH: Yeah. We played Yuchi Indians High School a lot of times. I' ; m-- on this-- in this book he got all of these writings and several of em' ; in there about the Yuchi Indians. I remember one of em' ; especially I can kinda remember would be them 60' ; s and nothing-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --and that' ; s when the Yuchi Indians school was-- WN: At Sapulpa? CH: -- was at Sapulpa. I don' ; t believe the (Indecipherable) bacon-- ba ba Bacone. WN: Bacone. CH: Or something like that. WN: Well-- well let me ask you on the-- CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite-- WN: Yes. CH: --an announcer for-- WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn' ; t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the-- if it hadn' ; t been for sports he' ; d of starved to death. He couldn' ; t do nothing else-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --he wasn' ; t fit for nothing. Never done a day' ; s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news-- CH: Yes, he did. WN: -- in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any-- CH: Snakes? WN: Snake Indians. Didn' ; t-- do you remember a Mr. Purdy (PH)? CH: Oh! Old man Purdy (PH)? WN: Yes. CH: Sure. WN: Well, in one of his little diaries he had something about an uprising with the Snake Indians and-- CH: You mean CH Purdy' ; s (PH) dad? WN: I think it was. CH: Yeah. I remember-- I know quite a story about him. WN: Well let me ask you, what was the relationship of the early settlers, or the early people here with the Negro. CH: You know, I can' ; t tell you. It seems to me like when I was a kid we got along good with the Negros. EF: Uh-- CH: Old Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH) somebody sold whiskey and-- EF: Tell her the story that you told me down at the-- CH: Oh tell about-- who was that (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH)? EF: Yeah. CH: (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH) was colored but he was white and I was down there one time and they' ; d like to run him to death running him so-- the colored section around to the white section. The guy at the colored section new him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: I don' ; t know whether he was buying a ticket or trying to send some express or something, but he went to the colored section where he oughta be and that guy didn' ; t know em' ; and he thought it was white and he sent him around to the white and when he got around there he knew him and knew he was colored and he sent him back. WN: (Laughter) EF: You said he got kind of upset for it all. WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that-- how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I-- I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn' ; t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him-- I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, " ; I want to go anyway." ; and he said, " ; Well we' ; ll send you" ; and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well-- CH: They had-- they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid' ; s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that-- WN: But do you-- do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock-- WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That-- CH: Oh did the tear it out? WN: Yeah. EF: M-HM WN: Yeah, it' ; s gone. (Everyone talking at once) EF: You saw it this morning where the tennis courts was. CH: I know, but that-- where the stage was and the rock seats-- EF: Yeah, yeah. WN: Oh! pause in recording WN: It was at Klingensmith Park. CH: You know who this Klingensmith (PH) was don' ; t you? WN: Well someone said he was the first-- CH: He was the-- he was the son of this lady that was in the milliner store. WN: With your mother? CH: With my mother. Her son and he was the first one killed from Bristow in World War I. WN: Was he married? Do you know? CH: I don' ; t believe he was. I' ; m pretty sure he wasn' ; t. Him and Gene Wrine (PH) went together, same time. Gene Wrine (PH) was an old timer around here and he was in the sign business here for years and years. The signs still around town, he made and him and Klingensmith (PH) was together overseas and that' ; s about all I know about it. WN: But then they dedicated the park in his honor? CH: On account of him being the first one. WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920' ; s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn' ; t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I' ; ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here-- WN: Oh. EF: -- in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had-- I had-- when let' ; s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What' ; d they call it? KOX? K-- first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn' ; t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that' ; s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the-- what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. CH: And it was my old Model T Coupe. About all you could do was just drive around the block but you could get the music in on it and the first radio we had, had to have earphones with it, and my mother got such a bang out of the radio you know, we took it home and put it in the great big ole-- it had to be-- couldn' ; t have been aluminum, didn' ; t have-- metal dish pan. We put the radio in that and we' ; d all huddle around it and that' ; d pull the sound back at you because of the microphone, I guess you could call it. WN: Well now, they said that they had an opera house down on sixth street. Did you ever go to any of the entertainments there? CH: On sixth street? WN: There were the gas-- electric company is right there on the corner where Dr. Harse (PH) had his-- CH: Well that' ; s where the old Abraham building-- where they had the flu people-- WN: Yeah. CH: Yeah! That' ; s what that was, the opera house. M-HM. Yeah, I remember. Oh sure! WN: And you went to some performances there? CH: I don' ; t remember-- I don' ; t remember too much about em' ; but I know I did. WN: Well, did-- tell me how was the interaction between the Indians and the whites at that time? Were there lots of intermarriages and-- CH: You know something, I was a little too young to really remember about that-- I don' ; t know! WN: Well I didn' ; t know whether they went to the same social events or-- CH: I don' ; t know. I couldn' ; t answer that. WN: Well now then, lets back up again. Do you remember how the Great Depression affected you in this area? CH: Well now you' ; re talking about what years? WN: Well like when the banks folded. Would be 1929-- CH: Well, see I' ; d already-- WN: You' ; d already left? CH: --I' ; d already left then. That was in 29 wasn' ; t it? WN: Yeah and you had-- when did you leave? CH: Yeah, in 27. WN: In 27-- CH: --Yeah I was married in 27 and moved to Seminole. And I know this, I got-- I had a little money in three different banks and they all-- all three of them went broke and I didn' ; t have much but it was just exactly like breaking John D. Rockefeller. It was all they had. WN: (Laughter) Well let me ask you this, in your early, early days do you remember Joe Abraham and-- CH: Well sure I do! WN: --and the other immigrant who came-- CH: I know Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. I worked a little for Ed in the store when I was a kid. No! Uphus (PH), it was Joe, Ed and Uphus (PH). WN: Uphus (PH), I saw that name in the paper the other day-- CH: Uphus Abraham (PH). He wasn' ; t-- he wasn' ; t-- he didn' ; t-- climb the ladder like the other two did. Ed and Joe was the-- and I know-- of course I know all of their kids. Went to school with some of em' ; . WN: Can you-- can you remember any of the stores that were on main street when you were a child? Or when you were in this area. CH: Oh I remember this, Abraham-- this Uphus Abraham (PH) and EH Mount (PH) had the grocery store and I remember another grocery store right next to-- EF: EH Mount' ; s(PH). CH: -- I don' ; t remember who run it, but they called him " ; No No (indecipherable) he' ; d had cancer and nose something and they had to take his whole nose off. (Indecipherable) you run a grocery store over there and of course HL House' ; s (PH) Hardware and (Indecipherable) Hardware-- WN: How many cotton gins were there here? Do you remember? CH: I know all kinds about three or four but to my-- I don' ; t think there was too many-- too many, but they were pretty good size cotton gins. EF: Bought a few of em' ; . WN: --Tell me, can you remember the jail? CH: Oh yeah! The old jail, now why they ever go of that and get away with that are now down across the railroad tracks-- WN: Oh! CH: -- Yeah! WN: I fought so hard to try to save that one at the city meetings-- CH: I don' ; t know why in the world that-- that hurt me more than anything else. See that was-- WN: Now I wanted to save that. I wanted them to fix a little park area down there-- CH: Well sure. WN: Don' ; t you remember that Ed (PH)? EF: Oh! CH: Well I remember when we was kids I just big enough to be kind of scary, we' ; d sneak down there at night and that was when this-- I called his name a while ago-- Jimmy (PH) (Indecipherable) was marshal. Little bitty dried up guy but boy he was a tough character I guess. Killed several people and they didn' ; t pull him. That was during the early oil boom now. That was a long about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, something like that. WN: Another thing I was reading about in the early papers ; I' ; d like to know a little more about. I noticed where we always had a big Fourth of July celebration. CH: Out here--out here, I guess where the park-- WN: Yes CH: --is now in that neighborhood. WN: and then-- EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole (PH) Park was it? CH: Huh? EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole Park (PH) was it? CH: Cole (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: No, it was Klingensmith Park. EF: Okay. CH: My mother would give me a quarter and tell me to have a good time and I had to spend every bit of it-- WN: And you had a good time. They were well attended weren' ; t they? CH: Oh yeah. All the politicians that' ; s here, I can remember following-- I don' ; t know who it was. I knew him pretty well, and he was connected with your dad some way. Run for sheriff one year, and I' ; d just follow him around and every time he' ; d give somebody a nickel or a dime to get a pop with, well I' ; d have my hands out. I can remember that just as well as (Indecipherable). (Laughter from everyone) WN: If you remember statehood, tell me about-- CH: Not too well see, I was just eight years old-- WN: Well, let me tell you every issue of the-- of the local newspaper somebody has stolen it and it has not been microfilmed. We don' ; t have any copies of Bristow' ; s early statehood papers. There was a paper called the Territorial Enterprise and then The Record and so-- CH: I can' ; t remember nothing but The Record. WN: Just The Record. Okay-- CH: Now who was one of the first editors? WN: Nichols (PH). CH: Nichols (PH)? WN: Yes, the Nichols (PH). CH: I remember him and her (Indecipherable). WN: Okay now tell me what you remember about Statehood. CH: I was just a kid was all. I don' ; t remember much other than it was a big celebration in coming to town and what sticks out the most is a fight they had down town and that' ; s the first time I' ; d ever seen two men fight and just absolutely bloody each other and this one down he had him down and around him beating him in the face with a brick or a rock or something and blood was just a (indecipherable) and that sticks with me, that' ; s the main thing I can remember. WN: (Laugher) EF: Well-- (Inaudible) CH: Nine years old see, you wouldn' ; t remember too much about it. EF: You told me (Indecipherable). CH: Well, there' ; s some connection there. WN: With the Oklahoma. She may have been born-- EF: Statehood. WN: Yeah, Statehood. EF: 1970 something. CH: I knew her real well but the connection-- WN: Wasn' ; t she pretty and you didn' ; t even get excited? I can' ; t believe you' ; d sit there and tell us that-- CH: See, my wife was working for Mr. Mounds (PH) when I met her. HL (PH)-- what was-- WN: EE Mounds (PH). EF: EE (PH). CH: EE Mounds (PH) yes, lived right there by the-- on the (Indecipherable)-- EF: Working at the (Indecipherable) CH: I can remember your face. WN: This-- this is-- EF: He worked-- he worked-- BN: Well, I wasn' ; t born here or anything. CH: No, but-- BN: I' ; ve been here for-- CH: Were you here in 26, 25 and 26? BN: No. WN: (Laughter) CH: I don' ; t remember you then. EF: He worked at-- you mighta went by our old Ford' ; s-- CH: Oh you worked for Ford' ; s too? WN: Yeah, he was my-- CH: Oh well then I-- WN: See he' ; s my husband. CH: See I worked for Ford' ; s when they-- I was working for-- for-- WN: Lloyd and-- CH: Who' ; d they buy out? EF: He-- CH: House (PH)? EF: (Indecipherable) CH: HL House (PH)? WN: House (PH) or Grimes (PH)? CH: The hardware. BN: He bought out Grimes (PH). WN: Grimes (PH), he bought out Grimes (PH)-- CH: Grimes (PH), that' ; s right. WN: Grimes (PH) is-- Everyone talking at once. CH: I had that part wrong. I worked for-- WN: In the House (PH) building, but-- EF: It was Grimes (PH). CH: I worked for it. HL House (PH) was in the hardware business. WN: Yes, he was-- CH: And I worked for him and then I worked for Lloyd and-- WN: And my father, Earl? CH: Earl. When they first bought-- they was from Depew wasn' ; t they? WN: Yes, they were. They were from down south of Depew. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come by and I' ; m glad we got him before he left town Ed. End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml
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Corwin Henkins
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In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression.
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OHP-0024-02
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1990-03-16
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audio
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182c5945e4e0c4ab68b3b7df4a1646bd
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Ed Cadenhead
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Curt Gillaspie
Jack Carman
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml
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5.4 June 7, 1979 OHP-0040B Curt Gillaspie OHP-0040B 0:00-23:45 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Curt Gillaspie Jack Carman Ed Cadenhead 1:|11(7)|53(2)|67(15)|74(9)|90(8)|105(5)|117(10)|135(15)|144(1)|153(8)|168(2)|175(4)|186(10)|190(5)|196(7)|204(2)|220(2)|232(8)|245(14)|264(4)|276(14)|292(5)|301(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0040B Gillaspie, Curt.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn’t want [inaudible] that’s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn’t want us to drink. Curt tells about coming to Bristow from Harrisonville, MO and what about what his dad did for a living. black smith ; cotton wagons ; general mercantile ; grist mill ; Harrisonville, Missouri Family History 62 Early Memories EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn’t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn’t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton’s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn’t do it, then two of them would jump on them. Curtis remembers Mrs. West as one of his teachers and getting into fist fights alongside Walter Reed. He recalls Walter giving his adversary a " ; dinner bucket massage" ; . cotton wagon ; dinner bucket massage ; fist fights ; Mrs. West ; school ; Walter Reed Early Memories 256 Jobs EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They’d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don’t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let’s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren’t you? CG: Oh yeah. American LeFrance ; fire chief ; fire department ; lumbar yard fire ; Model T Ford ; oil boom ; unloading box cars ; volunteer department 461 Interesting People EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone… EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. Curtis tells about interesting people he remembers such as George Carman, A.H. Stone and Billy Freshour. A.H. Stone ; Ben Greenwood ; Billy Freshour ; first brick building ; George Carman ; jail ; making brick ; oil boom ; police chief ; US Marshal 619 Bank Robberies EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. Curt tell about hearing the Community State Bank robbery when he was standing at 8th and Main. bank robbery ; Community State Bank 659 Indian Relations EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn’t talk to you. They’d have an Indian girl, she’d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She’d come in the shop, and she’d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She’d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she’d turn around and tell my father. When he’d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He’d say, “How much do you owe me?” And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he’d open it up and he’d get out some money. Then when he’d get ready to put it back in the sack, he’d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. The Indians had interpreters and lived on allotments. allotments ; Creek Freedmen ; Hannah Brown ; Indians ; interpreter ; Newby Creek Freedmen ; Indian Relations 967 Dance Hall EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven’t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that’s where Kemp’s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they’d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. Curtis tells about the dance hall in the back of Bristow Drug Store. Jack tells about Dick Cahill's pool hall. Bristow Drug Store ; dance hall ; Dick Cahill ; Kemp's ; oil boom ; pool hall ; snuff Dance Hall ; Pool Hall 1107 Traveling from Missouri EC: You’re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We’d have to stop and put…[inaudible]. It took Curt's family 15 days to travel 300 miles by covered wagon from Harrisonville, MO. Arkansas River ; covered wagon ; ferry ; Harrisonville, Missouri 1148 Story about Jack Abraham JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven’t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we’d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we’d beat ‘em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. Jack tells the story of trapping a opossum with Jack Abraham and selling the hide to Curt's dad. grist mill ; hides ; Jack Abraham ; opossum ; trapping 1255 Oklahoma Statehood EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn’t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. Curt recalls Oklahoma's statehood, elections, and Indian Territory. Jack tells a story about hunting with his dad and Curt. 1907 ; election ; hunting ; Indian Nation ; Indian Territory ; statehood ; Tom Flynn Hunting ; Oklahoma Statehood In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator' ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn' ; t want [inaudible] that' ; s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn' ; t want us to drink. EC: Ah. What kind of business was he in? Was he-- CG: He was a blacksmith and a they had a general mercantile store and a [indecipherable] grist mill. EC: You were born here, when? CG: Oh no. EC: Oh no. You came-- CG: When I was about three-years-old. EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn' ; t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn' ; t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton' ; s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn' ; t do it, then two of them would jump on them. EC: Yeah. CG: When we was coming one night from school, one of the boys was a fellow by the name of Walter Reed (ph) and he had a gallon dinner bucket with some dishes in it that he carried for his dinner bucket. One of these boys keeps pushing one of them up on him and he eased over to me and said, " ; You keep that one off of me and I' ; ll whoop that fellow." ; I said, " ; Well, I' ; ll try." ; I got back and got me a pop bottle with a short neck, it was about that long. Old Walter, he was giving him a dinner bucket massage, and the blood was running. The other fellow, he run up there, McKay (ph) was his name, and he started to get into the fight. I pushed him back, and I hit him right between the ears with that pop bottle and it went about three foot high. And that old boy got me down, and Walter had to come over and give him a little massage and then I could handle him. So, we both got a lickin' ; from the professor for that. EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They' ; d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don' ; t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let' ; s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren' ; t you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: What was that like? What kind of equipment did you start out with? CG: Oh, we started out with an old Model T Ford. Then we got an American LeFrance. We had it for years. Then we got a Chevrolet fire truck in ' ; 38, and it' ; s still down there. Now they got them Fords and Chevrolets. [Inaudible] EC: Was this a volunteer fire department at one time? CG: Yeah, we had 15 members, and we had three paid men. And then after it got, let' ; s see, ' ; 33, it became partially paid and partially volunteer and it' ; s still that way. EC: What were some of the biggest fires or emergencies that happened while you were working there? CG: Well, the old Pickton (ph) Lumber Yard was pretty bad. You just don' ; t put them lumber yard fires out. EC: When did you start with the fire station? CG: Well, I started when I was 20, I think. 1920. EC: Okay, 1920. So, you were there during at least part of the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. EC: How far out of town did the fire station operate? CG: Oh, we didn' ; t really go out of town. We didn' ; t take the fire trucks because it would take so long out of duty and didn' ; t [indecipherable] come back in service. EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone-- EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. EC: Who else do you think of? CG: Uncle Billy Freshour, he was the old United States Marshal. He was 80-years-old and they appointed him Chief of Police during the oil boom because they was having so much trouble of putting people in jail. Ben Greenwood was the mayor. He said that, my goodness, said the whole police force can' ; t do nothing but put them in jail. Said then " ; How' ; s that 80-year-old man?" ; Ben Greenwood said, " ; Well, I' ; d like to put him on and try him." ; So he wasn' ; t on very long, so they had a big street fight down there on 7th and Main. He told the desk sergeant, he said, " ; Johnny, take care of the desk, and I' ; ll bring the boys up." ; So he went down there and slapped one of them old big boys on the shoulder and said, " ; You' ; ll have to go up to the station." ; He said, " ; You couldn' ; t take me anywhere." ; And he hauled off and slapped Uncle Bill down and he just rolled over on his belly and pulled out the little .38. When the smoke cleared away there was two of them laying on the pavement. And he got up and said, " ; Now boys, if you don' ; t want to see some strange faces in hell, get to walking towards the police station. I' ; ll be behind you with the little gun." ; EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn' ; t talk to you. They' ; d have an Indian girl, she' ; d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She' ; d come in the shop, and she' ; d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She' ; d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she' ; d turn around and tell my father. When he' ; d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He' ; d say, " ; How much do you owe me?" ; And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he' ; d open it up and he' ; d get out some money. Then when he' ; d get ready to put it back in the sack, he' ; d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. EC: Where did most of the Indians that came into Bristow live? CG: Well, they had allotments. You' ; d take, uh, you had some Creek Freedmens here. Creek Freedmen is a slave for the Creek Indians back east where they came from. And they got allotments, too, the Creek Freedmen. Oh, I don' ; t, can' ; t remember who all was Creek Freedmens that I knew. I forgot. [inaudible] Well, he was the United States Marshal under [inaudible]. He was the leader of the Indians. Well, we had old Billy Vann (ph) down in Newby. He kind looked after that bunch of colored boys down there. And we had, oh, there' ; s three or four around. And some white fellow had trouble with some of those colored boys. My dad would go tell them, " ; Now boys we' ; d like to have you around here as neighbors. Let' ; s straighten up and fly right or the little black wagon will back up and get ya." ; I know one that said, " ; Deal." ; Young colored boy knocked an old man down. Old man Scanlon (ph), he was a share cropper. The old man Scanlon (ph) he let his crop grow up in grass. The old man Scanlon (ph) told him, said " ; You' ; ll have to clean this crop up or I' ; ll have to put some teams over here to clean it up." ; So he didn' ; t clean it up and Scanlon (ph) went over with a team and got into it again and knocked him down and went over to Billy Vann' ; s (ph) house and he told one of those share croppers of his, he said, " ; Here' ; s some money. I wished you' ; d go get some liquor and put on a dance down at your house on Saturday night, and we don' ; t want that nigger around here. That was your normal [indecipherable]. EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven' ; t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that' ; s where Kemp' ; s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they' ; d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. EC: Were there any other places like that in Bristow? Dance halls or? CG: Yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh [indecipherable] down there just this side of Johnny' ; s [indecipherable]. And he carried a billy club and give them a massage if they got unruly. EC: Where was this Dick Cahill (ph) name? JC: He had a pool hall, you know, down here, and he got [indecipherable] because of letting kids in there to play pool, you see. So he put a bunch of these old hats in the back table, and when we played pool we had to put on eof those hats on so the women folk looked back there and see--Wound up owning 80 or 90 houses here in town. He was a drug store-- CG: Yeah and on top of that he was a Jew, and his brother was a [indecipherable]. EC: You' ; re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We' ; d have to stop and put--[inaudible]. JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven' ; t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we' ; d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we' ; d beat ' ; em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. He said, " ; God damn, they always die in the trap." ; Well, they' ; re hide' ; s no good, you know, when they die in the trap. I said, " ; Well, what are we going to do with him?" ; He said, " ; Oh, I' ; m going to throw him right here in the weeds." ; So he threw him over there, and we went on to school. He got out of school, at that time, a little earlier than I did. He went down and got this opossum and skinned him and sold him to Curt' ; s dad and he had little gristmill down there and [indecipherable]. So we [indecipherable] down there a lot, you know. We had corn cob pile back there where, you know, they shell corn and have corn cob fight. That evening, I went by there, you know, kind of had a few words with Curt' ; s dad, visited a little while, he says, " ; Well, I see you boys caught a opossum last night." ; And I said, " ; Yeah, but he died in the trap and the hides no good." ; He had to tell him it was a different because Jack had already been there and sold him the hide. [Indecipherable] I haven' ; t brought that up to old Jack in years. I don' ; t know if he would like it or not. EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn' ; t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. CG: Years ago, mother used get letters from Missouri, and they was marked I.T., Indian Territory. But, before that, before the Indian Territory, it was Indian Nation. The first grocery store that was ever here was right back of the printing office up there. It was about 20x20, I guess. A fellow by the name of Tom Flynn [indecipherable]. JC: My dad and his dad was hunting with the superintendent at school. We were all hunting together a lot, you know. Curt was just a whole lot better shot than my dad or the superintendent. And they go out and practice, you know, before they' ; d go hunting. My dad would shoot a target way off, you know, have me down there and bring back the score, you see. Dad would shoot way off one side of the target and wouldn' ; t even put a hole in it. When they got ready to bring the shots back [indecipherable] right close there' ; d just be blistering marks, just a little bit. I' ; m a better shot than you thought. I don' ; t know what' ; s a happening. CG: Oh yeah my father back of Jack' ; s old home back there, they had some pictures [indecipherable]. I' ; ll go get them. There in the house, there. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml
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Curt Gillaspie
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In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief.
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OHP-0040B
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1979-06-07
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audio