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31a3089548c2c51aa26e93db1d6c1f73
Dublin Core
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Title
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Harry Britt McCarty
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml
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genealogy
family
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5.4 OHP-0013-01 Harry Britt McCarty OHP-0013-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. McCarty Family History genealogy family Harry Britt McCarty Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|26(1)|38(8)|59(8)|74(10)|96(12)|109(14)|125(5)|139(7)|170(5)|194(12)|216(2)|240(9)|260(13)|274(8)|283(6)|295(13)|303(13)|319(1)|339(14)|366(2)|380(10)|406(2)|421(6)|443(14)|456(11)|466(2)|489(12)|527(8)|551(7)|562(7)|586(2)|598(11)|606(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0013-01 McCarty, Harry.mp3 Other audio 0 Locations of McCarty Family Graves BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty’s living room. MM: Okay— BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn’t go to the cemetery. Discussion of the locations of McCarty family members graves. Bea ; Bryant Fassmore ; Colorado River ; diptheria ; Harry McCarty ; Lola ; Marble Falls ; Old Man Holloway ; Port Acana ; Sam Holland ; Wash Crosson cemeteries ; graves 285 Family Members and Genealogy MM: Ask him how many of—if he could tell all the names of papa’s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we’ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad’s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa’s Holland’s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don’t know. Discussion of the Family Genealogy of Harry McCarty Alex ; Bryant McCarty ; Charlie Edwards ; Ferrell Blythe ; Laura ; Port Lavaca ; Tom Holland ; Wiley Thompson family ; genealogy 728 Traveling to Houston for Bea's Funeral HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that’s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don’t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that’d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn’t anybody in ‘em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it’s twenty-six miles well there’s twenty-four cars, I don’t remember. And we’d went right down between ‘em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. Stories of the trip to Houston when Bea died fog light ; Paul Stephens ; travel funeral ; travel 1023 Move to Oklahoma MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in—I guess it was the early part of ’18. MM: What time, when did you come out? Discussion of moving to Oklahoma in 1918 Baker ; Bert Burnett ; Bristow ; Ed Barnfield ; Lawton ; Mina Phipps ; Wichita Falls Moving ; Oklahoma 1100 Family Names ZM: Your mother died in ’68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must’ve died about two years before, didn’t she? Discussion of family genealogy Audry Simmons ; Betty Lee ; Betty Simmons ; La Porte ; Marble Falls ; Vivian King family ; genealogy 1342 Old Family Pictures BM: I was gonna say, we’re gonna leave—try to get away about the last of September or the— ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]— BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That’s Bryant’s (ph) dad. Discussion recorded while looking through family pictures Bea ; Jack Higgins ; Keeg ; Lannow ; Lorreine ; Marble Falls ; Pictures genealogy ; pictures 1688 Butchering a Boar Hog BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him— MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to— Memories of butchering a hog butcher ; hog butcher ; hog 1821 Location of Family Graves ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I’d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn’t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she—her husband’s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they’d been there for a long time. I guess there’s nothing there. But anyhow she— Discussion of location of family graves Marble Falls ; Nina ; Toby gravesites In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives. BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty' ; s living room. MM: Okay-- BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn' ; t go to the cemetery. BM: Do you know-- HM: I don' ; t know the name of it-- BM: Don' ; t even know the name of it? HM: No, I don' ; t. BM: Who could--where could a person find out? HM: I don' ; t know. I don' ; t have any idea. MM: What year was she buried, do you know that? HM: I don' ; t know that either. I don' ; t know [indecipherable] remember. But Lola died when we lived down there at Port Acana (ph) with the diphtheria. And she was the--she was the third one that was ever put in that Port Ac--that cemetery out there. They might' ; ve had another cemetery there around Port Acana (ph) but I didn' ; t know it. And there was a Shell Road run right along down, going down from Evercorn (ph) down toward Port Acana (ph) and there was a gate went into that cemetery right along there and Old Man Holloway (ph) was buried there first, and Bryant Fassmore (ph) was buried there second and she was buried there third. And they took Old Man Holloway (ph) up and sent him back to--I don' ; t know whether he was buried in that Fairland Cemetery (ph) or Toby (ph), over there. And after we left there I never went back to her grave. MM: Where did his grandpa [indecipherable]? Where was-- BM: Do you have any idea where your grandpa was buried? HM: Grandpa who? BM: Grandpa McCarty. HM: No, I don' ; t. BM: Well, I--Grandma Holland, where was she buried at? HM: She' ; s buried there at Toby (ph), I think. I' ; m pretty sure she was. BM: Well there' ; s somebody told me there was something--where I got this I don' ; t know. They said there was also a McCarty Cemetery right around Toby (ph). HM: No, I never did know of any McCarty Cemetery. BM: That the Toby (ph) cemetery was their--this other one, it wasn' ; t even close to--it was close to this Toby (ph) cemetery, alright, but it wasn' ; t right in this Toby (ph) cemetery. HM: I don' ; t think there' ; s anything to that. That Toby (ph) cemetery sat right along like that, and there was a schoolhouse out here, and right off down in this pasture here just a little ways was where the old homeplace was, where dad was raised. BM: Yep. HM: The old Holland place. Grandma Holland--grandma married Sam Holland after dad' ; s father was shot. MM: He lived right there at Toby when grandpa was shot? HM: I don' ; t know where they lived then. I think dad was--I think he said he was eleven years old, I believe. BM: Yeah, six--seven makes five. I believe he said five. I believe I remember hearing him say five. I may be wrong there. MM: I heard him a Corey (ph) talk about it [inaudible]. BM: And I' ; ve always wondered where that he was buried. HM: Well, I don' ; t know that he could' ; ve been buried around that Toby cemetery (ph) if they lived there, I' ; m satisfied they lived around [inaudible]. BM: They had to live right in there-- HM: Somewhere. BM: --in there around Marble Falls or somewhere in that neighborhood, anyway. HM: He' ; s buried there in one of them--well there was a Wash Crosson (ph) cemetery back up on the Colorado River that there was several--I don' ; t know if there' ; s any McCartys ever buried up there but there' ; s several people buried up there. MM: Ask him how many of--if he could tell all the names of papa' ; s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we' ; ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad' ; s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa' ; s Holland' ; s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don' ; t know. MM: Someone told me, maybe it was Uncle Tom, of all of them, the step-brothers and --sisters and half-brothers and --sisters and all the [indecipherable] there was thirty-five kids in that generation. HM: Well, it could' ; ve been. Had a lot of them Hollands that' ; s scattered around over them hills there that had families that was old enough that I thought that they was Grandpa Holland' ; s brothers. But Uncle Tom said that they was his brothers and half-brothers. MM: Well, now, Grandpa McCarty was married before he married papa' ; s mother. He had kids before them. HM: Yeah. He had, he had Keeg (ph) and Epp (ph). MM: Where did Alvin (ph) come in? HM: And he had Miney (ph) and he had that that I was talking about a while ago, McCourse (ph). BM: Mac horses. HM: Ida, I think was her name. Wasn' ; t there some of them down there at that reunion? BM: No, there wasn' ; t none of this down there so I tried to-- MM: They' ; ve mostly died, so, on that-- BM: --that is the reason I wanted to run this down myself and I can go from there with it. But we intend to take off either about the last of September or the first of October after it goes to cooling down, run this all down, and we' ; re going to try to find a place where it' ; ll be a little bit warmer for winter. HM: Well that, there name was McCourse (ph), and Ida (ph) was a sister to Miney (ph) and Epp (ph) and Keeg (ph) and they was my grandpa' ; s first marriage, I guess. MM: And how many was--papa and Ari (ph) and how many of those kids was there? HM: Well there was just three. MM: Three? HM: Alex (ph) and dad and Ari (ph). MM: Where' ; d Alex (ph) die? HM: I think there around Port Lavaca somewhere. BM: I believe I remember hearing something about this, but I wasn' ; t sure on that. HM: They lived down there when dad and Laura and Ferrell (ph) Blythe out when the calvary went-- BM: Yeah, yeah, I remember hearing them talk going to Port Lavaca to see Keeg (ph) I believe what it was. HM: No, see Alex (ph). BM: Alex (ph)! Yeah, that' ; s the way it was, Alex (ph). MM: Okay, now, did grandma McCarty have a family before her and grandpa married? HM: Yeah. MM: Who did she have? HM: Well, she had--she married (pause) I don' ; t know whether she was married before she married to Thompson but she had Wiley Thompson (ph) and Charlie Edwards' ; (ph) mother, Mary by Thompson, but I don' ; t know what his name was. MM: Do you remember what year Bea (ph) died? BM: Well, I remember hearing about it. HM: He died when we lived out there in the oil field. BM: Yeah. When we lived out there on the hill. MM: About what year? BM: And, see, Bea (ph) and her old man and them two girls come back when you lived out there in the field. ZM: When we lived out there [inaudible]. BM: On the old-- MM: Sunrise. BM: Yeah, Sunrise. They come back-- ZM: First time we went up there, went out there, was in 1930 and ' ; 40, wasn' ; t it? HM: Thirty-nine. ZM: Thirty-nine. Nineteen-and-thirty-nine and forty. Christmas, you know. And come back about New Year' ; s. HM: Yeah, but she hadn' ; t-- ZM: And then we made another trip, we made about three or four trips down to the Port. We went [inaudible]. HM: [Indecipherable] come down there to the house. MM: What was their last name? ZM: Simmons. MM: Simmons? S-I-M-M-O-N-S? ZM: S-I-M-M-O-N-S. We moved up there in [indecipherable] what year, 1940? Yeah. HM: No, we moved up there in ' ; 41. BM: Forty, ' ; 41, somewhere in there, that was when Amelia (ph) was--when Laura Ina (ph) had the first, first-- ZM: Amelia (ph). BM: Amelia (ph), wasn' ; t it? Oh, that big [indecipherable] was rough to carry down them steps-- MM: Forty-four or ' ; 45, isn' ; t that about where Bea (ph) died? BM: --that old hospital. ZM: I don' ; t know, I don' ; t have any idea. HM: Well, let' ; s see. BM: I believe it was later than that. ZM: Yeah, I believe it was, too. BM: It was--I know you were still up here, but it was later than that. ZM: Well was we here when Bea (ph) died? Yeah, yeah, we lived in here when Bea (ph) died. We moved in here in ' ; 67. Might be-- HM: No, we didn' ; t. BM: No, you hadn' ; t moved to town whenever Bea (ph) died. [all talking] HM: We lived out there in the oilfield. BM: You lived out there on oilfield, out there in the oilfield, out there on thirty-three. (pause) But I-- HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that' ; s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don' ; t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that' ; d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn' ; t anybody in ' ; em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it' ; s twenty-six miles well there' ; s twenty-four cars, I don' ; t remember. And we' ; d went right down between ' ; em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. ZM: --he said, Well I wish they' ; d get over there! Said, Right over here in my lane! I wish they' ; d get a four-lane drive! And he was over in the third lane! And he said, I wish they' ; d get over there! And Flossie (ph) said, well, Raymond! Said, Why don' ; t you look where you' ; re driving! Said, Maybe you' ; re in the wrong--maybe you' ; re driving wrong. I' ; m not driving wrong! he said. They' ; re just a' ; crowd, trying to crowd me off! [Inaudible.] HM: Across that--we went through that Columbus and stopped ate supper and I saw a lot of driving then it wasn' ; t quite dark, and I saw some of them cedar bricks afire. It looked like smoke just roll out ahead of you, and then it kind of clear up and then here it' ; d come again. And we got on down there and eat supper in Columbus and went on down and had to cross that Colorado River between there and Houston twice, and boy I never did see--I drove fifty miles an hour that night watching, without a fog light, the car went around it had a fog light, and all I could see was two little lights just (laughs). And I drove fifty miles an hour trying to see where I could see them, and every once in a while you could tell you passed something on the shoulder. And went on down and had to stop and get gasoline and that old boy there running that station, he said, Where' ; d you come from? I told him, and he said, Man I don' ; t see how you made it though that, down through there crossing that river up there, that. He said, I been in there a few times when it was just like it is tonight, and he said, I don' ; t know how you made it without a fog light. ZM: --letters that I had the other day, I could tell you about what-- HM: But we went on down there and we went to the funeral the next day but we didn' ; t go on to the cemetery. But that night went in there to La Porte, I don' ; t know what time it was, it was late. Saw a cab stand there and three or four men standing around it, we didn' ; t know where we was going. And I said, I' ; m gonna ask these guys here at this cab stand if they happen to know Paul Stephens (ph), and went out there and one of them said, Is that the man that lost his wife? And I said, Yeah, I guess it is. And he said, Well, I don' ; t believe I could tell you to where you could find it, but he said, Just follow me and I' ; ll take you down there. It was plum across town, and got down there, why, he turned around and he told us that' ; s where it was. And I got out and went out there and I said, How much I owe you? He said, You don' ; t owe me anything. I said, Well I don' ; t want you to do it for nothing, I said, I want you, I' ; m gonna give you something. He said, Well, it won' ; t be anything, it' ; d just be the cab fare for coming down here, and he didn' ; t want to take that. Wasn' ; t much, I don' ; t know what it was, it wasn' ; t much and I thought that was pretty nice of him. BM: Yeah, it was. MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in--I guess it was the early part of ' ; 18. MM: What time, when did you come out? HM: I come later on. I come in the fall. September. And he had worked over there at Lawton, and we was over at Wichita Falls, Bert Burnett (ph), and I went back and lived with grandma Holland for a while. And he come on out here--he started to Wyoming, and that Mina Phipps (ph), his half-sister, was living down there below Bristow. He hadn' ; t seen her in a long time and he was up there to see her. And they talked him into the notion of staying. He went to work for Ed Barnfield (ph) out there on the old Baker place and worked for him a while, then he went to work for Baker, then he rented the place. ZM: Your mother died in ' ; 68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must' ; ve died about two years before, didn' ; t she? BM: That' ; s what I was thinking. I thought--it was just before I bought that place out there, or right about the same time I bought that place out there. HM: Well, I don' ; t think Bea (ph) died after we moved in here. I know she didn' ; t. ZM: No, I know she didn' ; t either, because I-- HM: We moved in here in ' ; 57. ZM: --I couldn' ; t hardly make up my mind whether I wanted to go or not and right at the last I did, and we went up by the mailbox and we found the letter from someone, I don' ; t know who it was from, that Bea (ph) was real bad, and we went on down there-- HM: Went on to Marble Falls. ZM: And stayed all night, and you and Red (ph) got up the next morning and called Houston, went down and called Houston and-- HM: Called La Porte. ZM: She was just as bad as she could be, they said. And we decided we' ; d go on down there but she was gone when we got there. MM: What was her kids names? ZM: Betty and Vivian and [inaudible]. MM: All girls. ZM: Uh-huh. MM: Do you know their names now? ZM: Well, Betty' ; s is Simmons (ph), and-- HM: Betty' ; s is what? ZM: Simmons (ph)? No, not Simmons (ph). Her maiden name was Simmons. I don' ; t know, maybe it' ; s in here. I forgot all of their names so maybe it' ; s in here. Mack (ph) is--Mack (ph) Betty' ; s husband' ; s name [inaudible]. BM: Their daughter killed herself. MM: Wow. BM: Betty' ; s and Mack (ph). ZM: I don' ; t know. I' ; ve got the others here, Vivian [inaudible]. BM: Well, her name is not what it was then. ZM: [Inaudible.] MM: What about [inaudible]. ZM: Betty Lee and Vivian King (ph) and Audrey Lola Simmons. That was before they was married. This is her picture. Betty, Vivian, and Audrey, this was ' ; 44. HM: Aubrey Simmons (ph) and Bea (ph) separated and she married Paul Stephens (ph), wasn' ; t it? MM: Her name, then, when she died was Stephens (ph). HM: I never did see him but one time, that fall. ZM: Yeah, when she died it was Stephens. HM: I saw him, we went to Austin. ZM: There' ; s Betty--uh, Bea, and that' ; s her three girls and that' ; s her. MM: Ain' ; t nothing worse than picking up a tape you' ; ve made [indecipherable] date and where we at and say, We were somewhere and sometime we made this tape. (laughs) We make-- ZM: [Inaudible.] These are just pictures. BM: I was gonna say, we' ; re gonna leave--try to get away about the last of September or the-- ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]-- BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That' ; s Bryant' ; s (ph) dad. BM: Yeah. HM: And mother. BM: I think--I know, I think Valerie got one of these. Pretty sure she does have. Well I' ; ve seen this one before. ZM: You have. HM: Well, you' ; ve seen them too, I think. BM: Yeah, I' ; ve seen--I remember Bea. HM: I mean, Uncle Keeg (ph) and-- BM: Yeah, yeah. HM: They come to Bryant' ; s (ph) when we lived up there on the [indecipherable] up there. BM: Now, Keeg (ph) and them should be in there somewhere, buried in there somewhere around Marble Falls. HM: I think they, they lived up there around Lannow (ph). BM: Lannow (ph) and Marble Falls, in there some dang place. HM: I imagine, I' ; d have to imagine they was buried around Lannow (ph). They lived up in there for, for quite a while. Well, the last two times we went to seem them they lived up in there. And I don' ; t know--they could' ; ve been brought back down there to Toby (ph), that' ; s where he was raised. BM: Well, that-- ZM: This picture was taken when you and her were--Lorreine (ph) went, and I was sick and didn' ; t get to go in to my favorite [indecipherable] and Lorreine (ph), and this picture was made in March 1955. It' ; s you all at your momma' ; s. That was before Bea (ph) died, I' ; m sure it was. HM: I don' ; t know. We left out there in ' ; 57, I know that. And I think Bea (ph) died--Herbert and Lorreine (ph) lived over there on that hill there from Jack Higgins' ; (ph) because of Audrey (ph) and Neely (ph) lived over in Tulsa and they found out about Bea (ph) faster than we did, and they called Herbert to find out if any of us was a' ; going, they wanted them girls to go. And we had already gone. But we didn' ; t know she was dead. Well, she wasn' ; t dead, I don' ; t guess then, when we left. And Herbert and Lorreine (ph) left off of that hill there and went to New Mexico. Right over in New Mexico, and lived out there for a good while after that. MM: That' ; s a good picture of [inaudible]. ZM: Yeah. [Inaudible.] (talking in background, inaudible) ZM: --Sixty-one, was it? HM: Yeah. BM: I was thinking it was ' ; 60, but it was ' ; 61. HM: It was ' ; 61. BM: ' ; 61. MM: Yeah, he died in May. Buddy died one May and he died the last day of April--I don' ; t know if it was March or April the next year. BM: Yeah. April the next year. MM: I know that he come out there when Buddy-- ZM: This was taken was on Easter Sunday and we was out at Herbert' ; s. And mother was there and she had, she told me several times after, after dad passed away, I wanted my picture taken with him, with dad, and I said why didn' ; t you tell us? She said, Oh, I don' ; t know, I didn' ; t know whether Laura would like it or not. BM: Doesn' ; t make a damn bit of difference anyways. (laughs) make a damn bit of difference! ZM: --near the same age, she said, and she sure just--she told me that I don' ; t know how many times, I wanted my picture taken with Frank. MM: Well, we got a big picture of him on a horse just about a year before he died. We had one-- BM: Did you get one of them? MM: My sister took a snapshot HM? Hmm? BM: Of dad on that horse. HM: No. BM: Just, oh, probably-- MM: --took a snapshot and the boy went across it and-- BM: --oh, I think it was November. HM: Mmm-hmm. BM: I think it was November. MM: I know it was the summer Buddy was killed. BM: Well it was after Buddy was killed. He' ; d had--it was cold. MM: Anyway, my sister had this, one of them little pictures just something, and Loyd (ph) blowed it up like that and [indecipherable] and hang on the wall. BM: It was cold, but--it was cold enough that it' ; s the same day that-- MM: That' ; s what you ought to do with them four generations, have it blowed up. BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him-- MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to-- MM: [Inaudible.] BM: No. MM: I know it wasn' ; t in the fall. BM: It was in the fall. I went in after him to see how he felt and I said, How you feel dad, and he said, Oh I don' ; t feel very good. MM: I think ' ; cause that hog [indecipherable]. BM: Well, I got to cut that old boar hog, go to getting everybody so I can knock him down. He said, Son I' ; ll go out with you but I just don' ; t know whether I can do anything with him or not. Well, come on, you tell me what--you just stand back and tell me what to do and I' ; ll do the rest. ZM: You' ; s a cutting, huh? BM: Man, well, I can do that. I got out there and got that old boar hog all stretched out and come over in that pen. He said, Go and let me do that. I think my knife is pretty sharp, let me do that. (laughs) He felt of his knife a little bit, Well, now, I believe it needs to be whitted (ph) just a little bit. Okay. He whitted (ph) his knife up a little bit. I still had that old hog stretched out. Well he got one of ' ; em out and he just throwed it over the fence and said, Well somebody sure make some good dinner. MM: Have a hog [inaudible]. BM: Went back after the other, got the other one, went over to pick the first one up and the old dog had done run off with it. Damned old bitches, run off with my dinner now I' ; ll just give you both of ' ; em. MM: [Inaudible.] ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I' ; d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn' ; t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she--her husband' ; s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they' ; d been there for a long time. I guess there' ; s nothing there. But anyhow she-- BM: She moved ' ; em out to Toby. HM: Out to Toby and buried them out there side by side and they was separated, and one of them was buried in one part of the cemetery there at Marble Falls and another in another part. She put ' ; em side by side up out there in Toby but there wasn' ; t nothing to it, I don' ; t guess, anything much left. They' ; d been buried so long. Anyhow, but-- BM: There' ; d be a few bones but that' ; d be about it. Doubt whether there' ; d be that or not. HM: I don' ; t--she had a gold band ring and they left it on her when she was buried. And I don' ; t know what part was left of her or anything about it, but Red told me that Nina (ph) said that they couldn' ; t find that ring. She made that old boy keep a' ; digging in there until he did find it. That, that looked like foolishness to me. But one thing she did do, my mother' ; s father was named Britt (ph). And he was buried way off down in that Colorado River somewhere down there in a cemetery, I don' ; t know what the name of it was. He didn' ; t have any tombstone and she went off down there after John died and looked his grave, found where he was buried and she put a tombstone to his grave. And he' ; d been dead for no telling how long. (talking in background) end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml
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Harry Britt McCarty
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In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives.
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OHP-0013-01
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McCarty Family History
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1986-07-16
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
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Anderson Bigpond
Elwood Bigpond
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Pinehill
cemeteries
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5.4 OHP-0014-01 Anderson and Elwood Bigpond OHP-0014-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Family Histories Pinehill cemeteries Anderson Bigpond Elwood Bigpond Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|13(4)|51(6)|87(2)|108(9)|117(11)|141(9)|174(1)|199(13)|228(11)|269(3)|302(8)|319(11)|350(2)|377(14)|395(8)|434(16)|463(3)|480(1)|501(11)|531(11)|559(10)|585(7)|606(1)|619(9)|632(3)|660(1)|669(11)|702(5)|741(9)|750(1)|755(6)|781(9)|797(11)|808(1)|854(3)|868(8)|896(7)|906(2)|939(8)|955(10)|983(7)|1014(9)|1050(8)|1082(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0014-01 Bigpond, Elwood & ; Anderson.mp3 Other audio 0 Elwood Bigpond Family Plot BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we’ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let’s see— BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek—on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it’d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] Discussion of the location of the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot Anderson Bigpond ; Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Clinton Cemetery ; Dub Bolin ; Elwood Bigpond ; Elwood Bigpond Family Plot ; Elwood Family Plot ; family burial plot ; Little Deep Fork Creek ; Mills Chapel Schoolhouse cemeteries ; family 243 Kellyville Area Cemeteries AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that’s—that’s been sold, too. Discussion of cemeteries located near Kellyville, Oklahoma Amos Felix ; Indian Nations Council ; Kellyville ; Kenny Felix ; Little Bucktrot ; Pat Barnett ; Winnie Cahwey cemeteries ; Kellyville 414 Geneaology Society of Bristow BM: Well alright, I’ll probably—when we get this done, they’re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There’s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. Discussion of the how and why they began the project of locating the cemeteries. Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Cawhey Cemetery ; Depew ; Gene Connolly ; Geneaology Society of Bristow ; Ofuskee County ; Okmulgee County ; Seminole County cemetery ; Creek County ; Genealogy Society of Bristow 573 Barnett Family Cemetery AB: Now, Jack Tiger—what was, don’t they have a— EB: Jack Tiger’s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It’s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? Discussion of the location of the Barnett Family Cemetery Barnett Cemetery ; Barnett Family Cemetery ; Jack Tiger ; Jake Barnett ; Lodie Barnett ; Lodie Tiger ; Patsy Barnett ; Patti Tiger ; William Barnett Barnett Family Cemetery 818 Poor Farm Cemetery AB: Now I’ve got one here I’d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now— [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! Discussion of the Poor Farm Cemetery near Bristow Barney Harjo ; Bristow ; Bristow Cemetery ; Bristow City Cemetery ; Deep Rock Camp ; Oakcrest ; Oakcrest Memorial Park ; pauper's cemetery ; Poor Farm Cemetery ; Robert Biggs Poor Farm Cemetery 926 Magnolia Cemetery Lease BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I’ve been by there but I wouldn’t know. Discussion of Magnolia Cemetery and an old lease agreement Bristow ; Harjo ; Magnolia Cemetery ; Oakcrest Memorial ; Ron Schumaker ; Roy Dunaway lease ; Magnolia Cemetery 1150 Oak Hill and Bristow Cemetery BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we’ve got—I don’t know whether you knew it—know it or not, now that would be out there at this new—that’d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they’ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn’t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they’ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen -- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? Discussion of the Oak Hill and the original Bristow Cemetery Arthur Foster ; Bristow Cemetery ; Foster Cemetery ; Oak Hill ; Sand Creek Bristow Cemetery ; Oak Hill 1341 Pinehill Cemetery AB: What did, did, oh—Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she’s buried way south of the old, the original. The one—the original cemetery, it’s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? Discussion of Pinehill Cemetery Cemetery ; Pinehill ; Pinehill Schoolhouse ; Polecat ; Sally Pinehill Pinehill Cemetery 1426 Watashe Cemetery BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you’ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there’s another question that been a’rubbin’ me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there—it’s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there’s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind—according to this party that called me—there’s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There’s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe’s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. Discussion of the Watashe Cemetery Artie Mosquito ; Bluebell ; Joe Watashe ; Kelly ; Kellyville ; Watashe Cemetery Watashe Cemetery 1644 Harry Cemetery EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery’d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got—have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile— BM: Three miles? AB: Let’s see, let’s see—be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. Discussion of the Harry Cemetery Deep Fork Ridge ; Eddie Harry ; Harry Cemetery Harry Cemetery 1902 Haydeville and Knight Cemeteries BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don’t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. Brief discussion of the locations of the Haydenville and Knight cemeteries Haydenville ; Jim Bigpond ; Knight ; Tuskegee School Haydenville Cemetery ; Knight Cemetery 2094 Bear Cemetery AB: Now where’s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I’ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. Discussion of Bear Cemetery Bear Cemetery ; Juedeman ; Roley Bear ; Tuskegee Bear Cemetery 2213 Clarence and Teddy Brown BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence—Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we’ve got, we’ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We’ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we’ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That’d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three—(pause) and I don’t—we’ve got Brown there but that’s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey’s (ph) in there, there’s another one here. Brief discussion of Clarence and Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Gypsy ; Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Teddy Brown 2338 Madison Bucktrot and the Lane Cemetery BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it’s back over here right west of Iron Post. That’s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. Discussion of the Bucktrot family cemetery and the Lane Cemetery Cling ; Edna ; Madison Bucktrot ; The Lane Cemetery ; Tuskegee Madison Bucktrot 2489 McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery BM: Now, eighty-three, now let’s see, where’s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we’ll come back in here, that’s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? Discussion of the McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery Amos McNac ; Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery ; Wally Knight Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma. BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we' ; ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let' ; s see-- BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek--on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it' ; d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] EB: I don' ; t believe that' ; s two mile, I believe that' ; s a mile (coughs) coming from Mills Chapel, you come to the corner there-- BM: Come down, so that' ; s two miles over there. EB: Huh. BM: That' ; d be--well that' ; d be a mile, actually, a mile over there. EB: And where you turn in there to go-- BM: And the road goes north-- EB: --to Dub Bolin, that would' ; ve been a mile. BM: --yep, right. A mile, okay, a mile. Okay, a mile. EB: About a mile and-- BM: That' ; s right. You' ; re right. EB: About a mile and-- BM: About a mile and a half it looks like. EB: About a mile and a half, yeah. BM: Okay. Then north up to just before you get to Little Deep Fork Creek, then on the east side of that road, is that right? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Now then, the Clinton Cemetery, that would be called the Clinton Cemetery. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. EB: As far as I know that' ; s what' ; s it' ; s-- BM: As far as you know. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, then the Bigpond Family Cemetery then, would be five miles east, a mile south-- AB: About a mile and a quarter. EB: About a mile and a quarter. BM: About a mile and a quarter south-- EB: Yeah. BM: And east about a quarter of a mile. AB: Yes. BM: Is that right? AB: That' ; s right, about a quarter of a mile. BM: Now we got that marked as Bigpond Family Cemetery." ; (pause) Alright, is there any of the--we were talking earlier about these, these babies that' ; s buried out here. Do you want to put them on here? Or do we want to let them go? I' ; m going to leave that strictly up to you. EB: It' ; s not a cemetery but I don' ; t know if they could-- BM: It' ; s a family burial plot, isn' ; t it? AB: Yeah. EB: Yeah. BM: It would be a family burial plot. EB: Mmm. BM: So we' ; re gonna mark this with a marker-- EB: That little baby here was, it died at birth. BM: Okay. What we' ; ll do with this one, then, we' ; ll mark this one over here E-L-W-O-O-D Family Plot. [marks map] That would be this one right out here. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, we' ; ll call that one eighty-five and we' ; ll mark that one right there eighty-five. [marks map] Well that' ; s--we' ; ll call that the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot. Okay, anything else that you can think of? EB: No, I believe I don' ; t. AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that' ; s--that' ; s been sold, too. BM: Now, it don' ; t make any difference about it being sold if there' ; s two babies there. It' ; s a family plot and as I say, what is got me stirred up on this thing and got me t' ; d off--I' ; ve run into one back over east of Kellyville over here, right there was a--it was a large graveyard and it was called the Bucktrot. Little Bucktrot. Over here east of Kellyville that the old boy' ; d just taken a bulldozer-- EB: Huh. BM: --bulldozered all down, just pile the stones and everything up, went in and planted a garden on top of it. That burnt me up. AB: That' ; s not in there where-- BM: Now the Indian Nations Council, they' ; ve got a report of this as well as two attorneys here in Bristow and they say that they can be something done about that. EB: Yeah. (rooster crowing) BM: That a burial ground, regardless of where it is or what it is, is a sacred. If it' ; s one or if it' ; s 100, it' ; s still sacred ground. (rooster crowing) EB: That must' ; ve been Cunja (ph) Bucktrot' ; s place north, kind of north of-- BM: Well it--go east out of Kellyville-- EB: East. BM: East out--straight east get out of Kellyville out there, back out there on the hill. About a mile, mile and a half, mile east of Kellyville out there and then back south down there. I heard this from fellow by the name of Felix. (rooster crowing) EB: Kenny (ph) Felix. BM: I believe his name was Osc-Amos. Amos. EB: Amos. BM: Amos Felix. AB: Yeah, we know him. BM: Amos was telling me about this and I ran it down, and shore enough that' ; s what' ; s happening. (rooster crowing) AB: This is not the cemetery that--what was their, Winnie Cahwey (ph) and--Winnie Cahwey (ph) and Pat Barnett, you know, they were always feuding over a cemetery up there that her grandfather Osa (ph) had plowed it up or something like that. EB: This was out in a few minutes ago. AB: Plowed it up and-- EB: Was trying to find the cemetery. BM: You know anything? UM: Not around this part [inaudible]. BM: Well alright, I' ; ll probably--when we get this done, they' ; re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There' ; s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. UM: Well there' ; s a bunch of them that-- BM: And it doesn' ; t make any difference whether it' ; s a white cemetery, colored cemetery, Indian cemetery, family burial plot, or what. UM: Mmm-hmm. AB: Do you work for the Creek Nation? Or just working for-- BM: This is just for myself. AB: Oh, I see. BM: This is for myself. So we' ; re the Genealogy Society of Bristow. AB: Yeah. Well I thought that' ; s what I read it in the paper and then-- BM: Genealogist Society in Bristow, they appointed me and the wife to run this all down and when we get this all run down it' ; ll be put on a computer form. With the names of the cemetery and roughly how it' ; s laid out, if it' ; s taken care of, if it' ; s got a fence around it, roughly how many graves is in it, the whole works. UM: Gonna take a while isn' ; t it? (chuckles) BM: Well, you' ; d be surprised, I' ; ve already come up with eighty-five. UM: Yeah. BM: Here in Creek County. And I' ; ve been just damned near to all of them. UM: Yeah. BM: All but just this--this one back off over here that I found out about this morning, where his [Elwood' ; s] dad was buried. I didn' ; t know anything about that one. UM: Yeah. BM: And I didn' ; t know anything about the family Bigpond--Bigpond Family Cemetery. I didn' ; t know anything about that. UM: Yeah. BM: I heard about it yesterday evening but I didn' ; t--I didn' ; t know anything about it. UM: Hmm. BM: Gene Connolly' ; s (ph) wife was telling me about this here [indecipherable]. And, well, there' ; s not but one thing for me to do. UM: [inaudible] BM: (chuckles) No, I just go run down the man that--go down and run down the man with the plan. EB: You know, this fellow, this Bigpond--there is a Bigpond Cemetery in Depew. BM: Yeah, that' ; s off over here. [refers to map] EB: Yeah. BM: That' ; s way off over here. And there' ; s also a Cawhey (ph) over there. EB: Yeah. AB: Yeah. BM: There' ; s Cawhey (ph) Cemetery over there as well as a Bigpond Cemetery over there. EB: I believe they' ; re together in there. BM: Well, they' ; re right there close together, just maybe [indecipherable] apart. They' ; re all right there together. AB: Now, Jack Tiger--what was, don' ; t they have a-- EB: Jack Tiger' ; s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It' ; s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? EB: Well, let' ; s see. BM: I don' ; t want you to go, getting' ; you all upset now, why don' ; t you just relax. (all chuckling) I want you to relax. AB: Now, I know, you could--now there' ; s a girl, woman, lives over there. She' ; s married to Jake Barnett. Now they live in Depew. BM: No, I heard about them Barnetts live out here north of town. AB: Well, that' ; s some of the same family. BM: Yes. AB: But they live in Depew. Now that' ; s--Jack Tiger was her dad, wasn' ; t it? Jake' ; s wife. EB: Patti? AB: Yeah. EB: Patti and-- AB: What' ; s Jake' ; s wife' ; s name? EB: Patti and Jack Tiger. AB: Is it Lodie Tiger? BM: Otey? AB: Lodie. Lodie Tiger. BM: Lodie. AB: But it' ; s Lodie Barnett now. She' ; s married to Jake Barnett. And they live south of Depew, not maybe about a mile south of Depew. EB: That makes the cemetery on their place. AB: Yeah, well, now, see, this is Barnett Cemetery I was telling you-- UM: [aside] I' ; ll be back here after while. EB: [aside] Okay. AB: --Barnett Cemetery I was telling you about last night. [refers to map] BM: Yeah. AB: See, this is Barnett Family Cemetery. Now, Patsy Ruth Barnett, she was married to William Barnett. Now, this Cawhey (ph) and Pat (ph) were always kind of at odds with one another. And when--Pat told me, said the feud has lasted for a number of years on account of her grandfather had plowed up Mrs. Cawhey' ; s (ph) grandfather, or something like that there. But I was wondering when you' ; s telling about this over there at Kellyville that someone went in and dozed. And I just wondered if that' ; s the same place or not. BM: No, this one' ; s over there south of Kellyville. This one over here, then, would be over here about a mile south, you said, about a mile south of Depew? AB: Well, you can locate-- BM: This one here. [refers to map] AB: You can locate-- BM: This one here. AB: Well, I' ; ve been back in there now. I' ; m not too for sure. But you could contact-- EB: Lodie. She' ; ll tell you about that, sure. BM: Lodie? AB: Lodie. Jack Tiger, where Jack Tiger' ; s buried in that cemetery. Now I don' ; t know the name of it. But Lodie Tiger--Lodie Tiger Barnett, could--she lives there and she could probably tell you more about that. EB: Now, they tell me that a rancher bought that place and he--I don' ; t know whether he plowed anything or not but he' ; s pasturing it, pasturing it over there. BM: Why that' ; s--of course, pasturing it, that' ; s not gonna hurt it or anything. Go in there and go to throwing them damn claw down that deep, why, a lot of them graves that--Lord, they' ; s supposed to be four to six feet deep but now, you know as well as I do that, that there' ; s some places here in this part of the country there' ; s no way that you' ; re gonna dig four to six feet deep. AB: Yeah. BM: So there' ; s gonna be a lot of ' ; em it wouldn' ; t be over two feet deep. The equipment they' ; ve got now a' ; days, well it' ; s nothing for ' ; em to plow six--plow two feet deep. Or scratch two feet deep. AB: Now I' ; ve got one here I' ; d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now-- [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! AB: Robert Biggs, now he was buried in Oakcrest Memorial Park, is that the same as the Bristow cemetery? BM: That would be the Bristow cemetery. AB: Well, you see why I was wondering about it [rooster caws] see I got one on Barney (ph) Harjo, now he' ; s related to the Harjos live north of town so if it' ; s Bristow City Cemetery [rooster caws] so I-- BM: Well, see, that' ; d be that Oakcrest, that would be the same thing. (pause) Now I think that' ; s right but now I wouldn' ; t say definitely sure. AB: (chuckles) BM: Now the reason I' ; m saying that is this: Now out here west of Bristow, stop and think a minute now, and you too, Anderson. Out here west of Bristow, now you know, they had the old Poor Farm cemetery, or pauper' ; s cemetery, whichever one you want to call it, had them little crosses, sitting right there beside the road. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, now right just up on the hill there, on the south side of sixty-six, now there is a graveyard there. But I have not been able to get any name on it. AB: I think I know where you' ; re talking about but I don' ; t know too much about that. BM: I don' ; t either! I can' ; t run anybody down that' ; s got a name on it. AB: You know out west of Bristow-- BM: Out there where that Deep Rock camp is out there west of Bristow? AB: Yeah. EB: What they used to call the Poor Farm? BM: Yeah, the Poor Farm. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, the Poor Farm graveyard is right down there beside the highway. They' ; ve got some little crosses in there on it. AB: Just right on that-- BM: Right on the north side of the highway. AB: North side. And all them little crosses there. BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I' ; ve been by there but I wouldn' ; t know. BM: But I would say that this here [refers to map], I would say that' ; s what this is right here. But I will check this out and make sure. AB: You think it' ; s the Bristow cemetery? BM: Oakcrest Memorial. AB: Now I got loooots of this stuff so I don' ; t have to be guessing, I can tell you for sure (chuckles) BM: I' ; ll check this out and see where that Oakcrest is. And if it, if it is the old Bristow Cemetery, then it' ; s out there by the armory. AB: Mmm-hmm, yeah. I--since I was leafing some, going through some of these, I just kind of, well I know we got the Magnolia Cemetery and stuff like that. BM: Oh, and 44, we' ; ve got the 44 out there, we got the Magnolia. AB: Yeah. BM: Really and truly that could be Harjo out there instead of Magnolia. But Roy Dunaway, when he put that thing in, he just got a hundred-year lease on it, he couldn' ; t buy the land, he got a hundred-year lease on it and placed that cemetery there and that man has got rich on those graves. AB: Yeah. BM: Just on leased land. Well when that hundred year' ; s up, now, here' ; s the sixty-four-dollar question: Will the Harjo family renew the hundred-year lease? Will the Harjo family? AB: But they never did buy that? They just got a hundred-year lease? BM: They just got a hundred-year lease on it! AB: Huh. That' ; s interesting, ain' ; t it? EB: What cemetery' ; s that? BM: That' ; s that Magnolia. That' ; s that one north of town. AB: They, they never did buy that. They just leased it for a hundred years, which I never, I didn' ; t know. BM: Now Roy Dunaway told me this himself before he died. And Roy and I was pretty close there at one time. And he told me when he first went to laying that thing out, goddamn Roy, you' ; re, you' ; re really sticking your neck out, ain' ; t you buddy? And, oh, he said, I got a hundred-year lease on it for two dollars a year and I don' ; t think I' ; m sticking my neck out very far, I said, No, I don' ; t believe you are, either. AB: But it' ; s gonna complicate things in the future. BM: In the future it' ; s gonna complicate things. AB: If you don' ; t buy it--I mean if you try to buy it, say probably [indecipherable] (chuckles) and what' ; s gonna happen to it (chuckles) BM: Well, Ron Schumaker, whenever they, you go out there and buy a plot, they give you a deed to that plot. AB: Yeah. BM: Well now that deed is worthless as the paper it was written on, by it being leased land. There is no way that he can give a clear deed to that plot of ground. But he can write one up. Everybody doesn' ; t know this. AB: Now, this is south of town here, now. I thought that was the old Tiger cemetery, [inaudible] ' ; cause there' ; s a lots of people buried there. Isn' ; t Alma (ph) Tiger and Tom (ph) Tiger and all of them buried in there? BM: Now, Flo (ph) Weaver told me that was called the Harjo. AB: Well, they must' ; ve--see, that was there before the Harjos existed. BM: That isn' ; t very possible, is it? (chuckles) AB: But I guess the Harjos, since they do bury there, I guess they-- EB: Clearly it' ; s kind of family-- AB: Yeah, it' ; s kind of a family. BM: It' ; s family. It' ; s sort of a family. AB: --could be called family. BM: It' ; s sort of a family get-together. AB: ' ; Cause you see, my mother--my mother' ; s mother, she' ; s buried there, too. BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we' ; ve got--I don' ; t know whether you knew it--know it or not, now that would be out there at this new--that' ; d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they' ; ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn' ; t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they' ; ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen-- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? AB: Yeah. BM: Just before you start, just before you drop over that hump to go down to Sand Creek, that' ; s straight south back up there, was the original old Bristow Cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: And I' ; ve called it the Foster Cemetery but I didn' ; t know at the time that it was the old Bristow Cemetery, because the reason I did that was Arthur Foster' ; s grandfather is buried there and he' ; s the one who' ; s got the big stone. He' ; s got a big stone. AB: I didn' ; t even know there was cemetery there. BM: It' ; s--would be located right here [refers to map]. AB: That would be kind of north-- BM: Right here. Right here. Right there is where it' ; s located. AB: Well it would be kind of located--well they got some apartment buildings there-- BM: Well, now, see, that' ; s north of them apartment buildings. AB: North of them apartment buildings? BM: It' ; s north of them apartment buildings. Now they tell me, I' ; ve been in there, the wife' ; s got two uncles that' ; s buried there in that thing. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: That' ; s what got us to really checking into it. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And then as times comes on, this was the original, the old Bristow Cemetery, before they moved out, out on the hill out there. EB: Is that what they called the sixty? BM: May be, I don' ; t know. EB: Right north of--two miles east of Bristow and then back north. BM: No, this is just right, this is just--now is there one out there by sixty? EB: Well, I don' ; t--I' ; ve heard of people being buried out there. BM: Out there by model sixty then. EB: Yeah. You go two miles east and then north. BM: Two miles east and go north up there. EB: Right in there. BM: I didn' ; t know anything about that one. [refers to map] Okay, we go two miles east, be here, go north two miles and now then that road, according to this map, it don' ; t show that that road goes all the way to there. But it does, it goes to and comes back out at the bottom of the hill over there, that' ; s the Joe (ph) Allen (ph) place. It just winds around comes on around comes back to the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. At the bottom of the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. AB: What did, did, oh--Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she' ; s buried way south of the old, the original. The one--the original cemetery, it' ; s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, go east from Pinehill schoolhouse, you cross the creek, you go on down--the road is going straight there and the road comes right around the side of the creek. Just before you make that curve it' ; s settin' ; right back south--southeast over there on the east side of that creek. AB: I was pretty young, you know in those days, I don' ; t remember-- BM: The the old Sally Pinehill, she didn' ; t want--they didn' ; t bury her down there in the old original, the old original cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you' ; ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there' ; s another question that been a' ; rubbin' ; me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there--it' ; s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there' ; s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind--according to this party that called me--there' ; s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There' ; s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe' ; s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: North of there, then a mile and a half west is where the old Watashe Cemetery is. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And the old Watashi stompground and so on and so forth in there. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Then. I don' ; t know whether I' ; ve got this one right or not: You come back over to that road going on up there, up about a half a mile north of that road, now. There is one sitting back west of the road over there (chickens squawking). They say there' ; s probably twenty-five or thirty graves in it. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: But I didn' ; t have a chance to go in and look this one over. It was wet and I didn' ; t have a chance to go and look it over. But they tell me now that they call that one George. EB: George. BM: That' ; s what I was told yesterday evening on this one. They call that one George. Do you know anything about that? EB: No, but I know a few Georges. But I don' ; t know nothing about a cemetery. BM: Okay, let me backtrack here to sixty-five (pages flipping). I' ; ve got two here--see we' ; re sixty-five out here. (chickens squawking) Okay, sixty-six, same way. Alright, now then. Sixty--I' ; ve got sixty-six (dog barking). Do you know anything about go down here to the, the road that goes across there at the airport? And go west, just before you get to the airport over there, on the north side of the road there. Do you know of anything right in there? AB: That would be going on past the Kelly farm in there? BM: Yeah, see, it' ; d be--it' ; s right on the Kelly farm in there and then this plot laid right in there between the airport and the Kelly farm. Now I do know there' ; s a dwelling, an Indian dwelling down there, but to tell you--I didn' ; t even know-- EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery' ; d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got--have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile-- BM: Three miles? AB: Let' ; s see, let' ; s see--be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. AB: And you go about a mile and three quarters-- BM: West. AB: West. BM: Okay. AB: And that--it' ; s got a big sign there, it did have a big sign, the Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s this damn thing I' ; m trying to find, that would be this, this sixty-six. Harry. EB: Eddie Harry. AB: Oh, and then there' ; s Watson--one of those Watson girls was married, do you remember the one they called Salina (ph) died and [indecipherable] BM: Okay, now, that would be-- EB: Did they bury her there? AB: Yeah. BM: That would be the Eddie Harry. That would be the cemetery that I' ; m talking about. AB: Well, I think they just got Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s what we' ; ll put down here. We' ; ll put Harry. AB: Yeah. BM: Harry Cemetery down there. AB: Now they--there' ; s an old house sits kind of off in the woods by it, and now--right out there right alongside the road they did have a big sign that said Harry Cemetery. Big oh--big sign about like that yay. That just a little before, it' ; s down-- BM: You come off that hill there and you drive, just before you get-- AB: Down at the bottom of that school there. What was school there? BM: That was down, right on--going into [indecipherable] it was sitting up on top of the hill there. AB: Yeah well it was down at the--you know where it' ; s at, then, yeah. BM: I' ; ve got that--I had it marked but I didn' ; t have no name for it. Okay, sixty-five. Let me see where--let me run sixty-five down. I know there' ; s another one in there. But I gotta find it. EB: It looks right here, sixty-two. BM: Yeah. (pause) Let me find sixty-five. [refers to map] I' ; ve had to come back in after--had to come back in and as they went to coming in I' ; ve had to come back in and remark everything. [murmuring] Sixty-five. (rooster crows) Scattered-the numbers are scattered everywhere. [murmuring] Sixty-eight. Sixty-four. Can' ; t find it over here anywhere. Fifty-nine. (chicken squawking) No, I don' ; t see it right now. Oh, yeah! Right here! That' ; s the one over here just this side of Depew, now. You come around the curve coming out of Depew, come around that curve you straighten out in there right in there right south of that--well it' ; d be southwest of that salvage yard out there. (rooster crows) On the south side of the road. There used to be a sign up there. But the sign is gone. It' ; s out there, see you come in there where that road goes south to Gypsy-- AB: Mm-hmm. EB: That must be right in there by where old man Kilgore (ph) used to live. BM: Yeah? EB: South of there-- BM: It' ; s out there south of the Kilgore (ph) place out there. Well, see, [indecipherable]--before the highway was finished in there, his son was killed out on that curve just east of the house, on that damned crooked-edge crooked curve in there. They tried to take that curve ' ; round-- [brief interference in tape] BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don' ; t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. EB: No, way back there Jim Bigpond got killed on the railroad right there--well, he didn' ; t die then, but he got his arm and leg cut off and he died later on, but I don' ; t think he was buried there. BM: But there used to be a big sign up there that--that sign is gone now. EB: Yeah. BM: But it' ; s out there between Bristow and Depew. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, let' ; s see. I' ; ve got another one in here I think. Seventy-one. Where' ; s seventy-one at? [referencing map] [mumbling to self] Sixty-five, seventy-one. Yeah, that' ; s this one up here, we didn' ; t know on the--still no name for that one, still no name for that one. Sixty-one was called George. Now this, this eighteen, we still haven' ; t got a name for it yet. That' ; s this one out here just the other side of [indecipherable]. AB: Seem like, wasn' ; t there a sign up for that? BM: There used to be a sign up there. AB: Now, tell me something: where--I think there' ; s a cemetery by the name of Haydenville or something like that, but it seems to me--I always see that come up [inaudible] BM: Haydenville' ; s way down south-- AB: Yeah, I know where Haydenville is. But I--seems like there' ; s something right down here. Haydenville--might not' ; ve been. Hayden? Or [indecipherable] or something like that-- BM: I don' ; t know what that name is right there, but-- AB: Yeah. Now, now they might have a cemetery in there, you know where the old Tuskegee School is? BM: Yeah, the old Tuskegee School, here it is right here. [refers to map] AB: You go out about a mile north-- BM: About a mile-- AB: Wait, no, about a half a mile north and then-- BM: Well then that' ; s-- AB: Then about a quarter of a mile back east. Now there' ; s a cemetery in there, too. BM: Okay. McKnight. AB: Knight. BM: Knight. AB: K-N-I-G-H-T. Now, I' ; m not too fam--I' ; ve been there, but I' ; m not too familiar. BM: Okay, yeah, I know the people that' ; s up there. AB: Now where' ; s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I' ; ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. BM: You said over here, didn' ; t you? Baker, Baker, Battle, Battle, Bucktrot, Tiger, Phillip, Harlinsville, Brown--well I had it here. EB: [inaudible] AB: The reason I was asking you, I got cemetery (rooster crows) Tuskegee there, that school in there--I was thinking was thinking that the Bear cemetery and it was the same place, but they said it' ; s the same-- BM: No, it' ; s not. That is the--where in the world' ; s that at, I know it--I know Bear is on there. But I don' ; t see it. EB: I seen it a while ago somewhere. BM: Wattie (ph) Sewell (ph), Lodie Tiger, Bucktrot, Gilcrease, Battle, Bucktrot, Baker, Drumright, Cawhey (ph), Washburn (ph), Brown, Bucktrot, Clinton--well here it is! Number three! The Bear! Be right here. [refers to map] AB: Now let' ; s see, this is-- BM: That' ; s west, come right straight north of Tuskegee-- AB: Yeah. BM: That would be out there, what is now known as the Juedeman place. Down there on the Juedeman place. AB: Yeah. BM: See, Roley Bear lived just before you get--Roley Bear' ; s place was just before you get up to the Juedeman place. AB: My sister' ; s buried there. BM: Yeah? AB: Well I-- BM: Then on north of that, then, is the Juedeman place, it' ; s back off out--it' ; s back off out to the right back off out there. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence--Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we' ; ve got, we' ; ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We' ; ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we' ; ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That' ; d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three--(pause) and I don' ; t--we' ; ve got Brown there but that' ; s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey' ; s (ph) in there, there' ; s another one here. AB: [inaudible] BM: The old man Brown is down seventy-six. AB: That would be-- BM: That would be down file miles south-- AB: Out east, east of Gypsy? BM: Yeah. I gotta find it. Seventy-nine, I marked everything last night. Seventy-five, seventy-four and seventy-five. Alright, seventy-four is Teddy Brown. AB: Ted Brown. BM: Ted Brown. Seventy-five is Washburn (ph). AB: Washburn (ph). That would be-- BM: [indecipherable] five miles, go straight east here [refers to map]-- AB: Yep. Two mile--three miles-- BM: One mile, then go straight south. AB: Yeah, I know where it' ; s at. BM: Okay, Ted Brown is in there too. AB: Is that where Teddy Brown lies? BM: Yeah, yeah. Teddy Brown' ; s in there too. AB: Hmm. (chuckles) BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it' ; s back over here right west of Iron Post. That' ; s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. BM: Okay, that' ; s what we got it marked Madison Bucktrot. Okay. Seventy-eight--(pause). It' ; s right in here because it was marked last night. Yesterday evening. Seventy-nine, we just marked that seventy-nine, the Clinton, in here. Seventy-eight. Well anyway, seventy-eight--we got the Lucy Deer (ph). The Lucy Deer (ph). AB: Is that the same one they call Woosy Deer (ph)? BM: Woosy (ph), that' ; s it. EB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). AB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). Right it here it is, way up here. EB: Oh, it' ; s around Sapulpa then. BM: Seventy-eight. That' ; s up there by the turnpike gate out of Sapulpa. Seventy-nine is Lundsford (ph). That' ; s right in here. AB: Back in here. BM: No, that would be--that would be--I think we' ; re wrong on that. We' ; ve got the Lundsford (ph), no that' ; s seventy-nine at Clinton. Seventy-nine at Clinton. Eighty is Lundsford. Okay, that would be just right down the road down here. AB: Right down here. BM: Okay. Eighty-one is Lane. The Lane cemetery. Eighty-three is the Clinton. AB: Now is that-- BM: Eight-one, that' ; s the Lane. That' ; s a way the heck off over here. That' ; s way off over here in the southwest, southeast corner of, or that' ; d be the southwest corner, back off down there. AB: Is it like them to have two cemeteries? BM: I don' ; t know. AB: What--wasn' ; t Charlie' ; s mother--she was buried down here at-- EB: Probably Tuskegee. AB: They call that Tuskegee not [indecipherable] now. EB: And [indecipherable] down there around Edna. A big cemetery, now. BM: Now, eighty-three, now let' ; s see, where' ; s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we' ; ll come back in here, that' ; s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? AB: Yeah, Wally (ph) Knight. Now you' ; ve got the McNac (ph) cemetery? BM: McNac? AB: McNac. M-C-N-A-C. BM: M-C-N-A-C. AB: Yeah. BM: No, I haven' ; t. AB: See, they got a cemetery right there at where they lived. BM: Now, where' ; s that at? AB: Well, (sighs) well you go out to forty-eight out here-- BM: What, forty-eight, north on forty-eight? AB: Yeah, north on forty-eight but I can' ; t--it' ; s quite a-ways out there, eight or nine miles out there I guess, and then you turn to go back east. But it' ; s like-- BM: East or west? AB: West. BM: Okay, then that' ; d be out there what they call the old Mac (ph) Baker corner. AB: Uh-huh, I don' ; t know about that. BM: See, that' ; d be about eight mile north up there. Like you' ; re going on to the sub station. AB: Yeah. BM: And see, before you get to there you' ; ve got the Harlinsville Cemetery and there' ; s no other road-- AB: Yeah, that Harlinsville Cemetery, that' ; s the one I was trying to-- BM: Harlinsville. AB: Yeah! Harlinsville. That' ; s it. BM: That' ; s it right there. [refers to map] AB: Yeah, that' ; s the one I was--but anyway, just like I told you, that if you contact that Amos McNac, he can give you the exact directions. Now he lives out right, he lives out to where Bethel lives. He' ; s lived--where Bethel lives, he lives right across the road from Bethel there. BM: Oh, okay. AB: Or he' ; s listed in the telephone directory. He can probably give you the exact mileage out there and some information on it, but all I know is it' ; s a cemetery there. BM: Okay. AB: A family cemetery. BM: Alright. Anything else you might think of? (pause) AB: That' ; s the only ones I can think of. BM: Okay. We' ; ll stop this thing. end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml
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Anderson and Elwood Bigpond
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In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma.
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OHP-0014-01
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Family Histories
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1977
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Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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Bristow
Architecture
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0016-01 Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow OHP-0016-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Lectures Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow Bristow architecture MP3 1:|20(1)|30(9)|42(6)|52(8)|63(1)|74(3)|85(7)|97(11)|108(5)|120(13)|133(9)|147(2)|158(13)|171(10)|182(8)|191(10)|204(7)|215(8)|230(1)|241(13)|253(11)|267(14)|278(10)|291(7)|305(6)|319(2)|331(2)|344(10)|358(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0016-01 Townscape Lecture.mp3 Other audio 0 Patterns in Buildings UW: --Slide four is also an example of the assets of Main Street. This is decorative brickwork along the tops of the buildings. Sometimes you find this special decorative brickwork around the windows, as in the Stone building in Bristow. Or you can find the special asset that’s hidden, such as the brass pavers which denote the crosswalk in Bristow. When we stop to look at Main Street, we discover that the changes taking place over time have begun to obscure these special assets. It becomes more and more difficult to distinguish those special details that make the community—Main Street particularly—an interesting place to be. Patterns in building and architecture in Bristow Anthony's ; architecture ; Bristow ; patterns ; Stone Building architecture ; Patterns 163 Alignment Alignment is another term that we use in a townscape program, and this particular example—number twenty—shows the alignment of the rooftops of these three buildings, the alignment of the windows on the second and third floors, and the alignment of the storefront. It’s a very strong, horizontal element on this street which gives you a feeling of visual continuity. Slide twenty-one is an example of Granbury, Texas, and how they maintain the alignment in the second floors of the buildings, even though one of the buildings has been altered to accommodate a drive-in bank. Another technique for maintaining that horizontal band on the street, if a building has been demolished, is something like the addition of the brick columns that we see here in Tulsa that finish off a vacant lot. Alignment is explained in reference to buildings in Bristow alignment ; architecture ; Bristow ; Stone Building ; townscape architecture ; Bristow ; buildings 401 Facades and Windows Another change that we’ve seen happening on main street is closing down of facades, because possibly the use has changed in that building and there’s more privacy required for one reason or another. An alternative to this is the Fig Tree Restaurant idea which—when they needed more privacy for the diners, rather than boarding up the large display windows in the first floor of the building, they simply added a coat of black paint to the glass and added their logo so that they had the privacy for the new use of the space, but on the street you’ve maintained the original shapes and patterns of the windows. Discussion of facades and windows in buildings in Bristow Ada ; Allen's Alley ; architecture ; Bristow ; Calthy's Half-Size Shop ; Elk City ; facades ; Fig Tree Restaurant ; Jeans Crossing ; June's Fashions ; storefront ; The Coreys ; the Gift House architecture ; Bristow ; facades ; windows 646 Painting Buildings This opportunity exists on many Oklahoma Main Streets. This particular case in Bristow really only needs some basic maintenance and you could have the original design intact. Now in many cases, changes are necessary on the street, and a townscape program does not mean we really oppose change just for the sake of opposing change. Discussion of painting buildings in Bristow Ada Men's Store ; architecture ; B& ; B Rexall Drugs ; brick arches ; Bristow ; buildings ; Jackson Office Equipment ; Leventhal Furs ; Main Street ; paint ; townscape program architecture ; Bristow ; buildings ; main street ; paint 813 Mini-malls and Joining Buildings The mini-mall is a kind of marketing concept that we’re beginning to see on more main streets as larger buildings are not really viable for one establishment. This particular example is in Elk City, and let’s just juxtapose it with the next example, and that way of advertising the retail establishments in that mini-mall. You can see how much stronger it is when you’re using the whole façade of the building to advertise what’s going on inside, and not trying to attract people just by the use of a less-than-interesting white plastic sign. Discussion of the mini-mall and joining buildings approach of marketing architecture ; Bristow ; JC Penney ; marketing ; minimall ; Otasco ; Todd Furniture Store architecture ; Bristow ; marketing ; mini-mall 958 Signs and Awnings The next section we want to discuss will be signs and the fact that signs come in many different forms in the community [and] are obviously a very strong visual element. In this case, the furniture store and also kitchen stuff in Ada, you see the painted-on sign and you also see the flush-mounted sign. In many cases there’s a place right within the architecture of a building to put the sign, and that area was called the sign band. Here’s an example of the H& ; H Tire Center in Elk City that has used that existing place within the architecture to put the sign. You can see what that does to the total façade of the building—you use the whole building as a way to advertise the store, not just the sign, not just the display windows. A much stronger kind of marketing approach. Signs and Awnings being used for marketing architecture ; awnings ; Bristow ; H& ; H Tire Center ; Main Street ; marketing ; sign band ; signs architecture ; awnings ; Bristow ; Main Street ; marketing ; signs 1169 Pedestrians and Street Furniture Townscape programs are also concerned about pedestrians and the areas within the street that are intended for pedestrian use and for automobile use. And in this example you can see that there’s normally very little definition between those zones. There’s no way of defining that edge. Now here’s one way that could improve that—the use of some simple shrubs to define where the pedestrian area is, where the parking lot is, where the area is for the automobiles. Discussion of pedestrians and street furniture on main street brick paving ; pedestrians ; sidewalk ; street furniture ; townscape program pedestrians ; sidewalks 1333 Public Information and Parking Public information is something that every community is concerned about, and this is typically the way it is presented on a tall aluminum pole, which becomes rusted and is easily bent. A very simple alternative to that would be the use of a low wooden stake that actually puts that information at driver’s-eye level and doesn’t have the spindly quality, I guess you could say, of the aluminum poles. Ways to display public information and a discussion on parking Bristow ; Main Street ; Parking ; Public information parking ; public information 1447 Alleyways and Water Towers Alleyways are another thing to consider in a townscape program because while you have existing assets in a town, as we talked about in the beginning of the show, there’s also hidden opportunities and simple treatments, as in this case the addition of some trees to the alleyway, can make a huge difference in the impression that people have of the community. Alleyways and water towers are discussed in this section alley ; alleyways ; townscape program ; water tower alleyways ; water tower 1502 Other Townscape Projects Any size community can participate in a townscape program, and this particular example is Normandy, Tennessee. You can see the interesting hand-carved sign they’ve selected to announce their community and give it a special identity. You can also see here that they’ve applied some of these principles we’ve been talking about. Brief overview of other townscape projects Chelsea, Massachusetts ; Normandy, Tennessee ; Townscape project Townscape Project 1699 Closing Comments Basically, this gives you an overview of the issues we’re concerned about in a townscape program, and once again the thing to consider is What are the assets on your main street and your town. Drop back and look for those and then look at the things that maybe you’re not so proud of and begin to consider what kinds of changes could be made that will highlight the assets that exist within your community, strengthen those architectural features in the buildings, and not disrupt those original patterns that existed and that gave main street its special identity and gave the buildings their special unity. Closing comments of the lecture architecture ; Bristow ; buildings ; Main Street ; townscape project architecture ; Bristow ; Main Street ; townscape project This is an undated recording of an unknown woman presenting a professional lecture on maintaining the historical storefronts and township of Bristow. [Transcriber' ; s note: This is a lecture by an unknown woman made in conjunction with a slideshow. The click of the slide projector is audible throughout the lecture ; however, as of the date of the transcription and without additional information, we unfortunately cannot collate her comments to images. If you have any information about this lecture, please contact the Bristow Historical Society.] UW: --Slide four is also an example of the assets of Main Street. This is decorative brickwork along the tops of the buildings. Sometimes you find this special decorative brickwork around the windows, as in the Stone building in Bristow. Or you can find the special asset that' ; s hidden, such as the brass pavers which denote the crosswalk in Bristow. When we stop to look at Main Street, we discover that the changes taking place over time have begun to obscure these special assets. It becomes more and more difficult to distinguish those special details that make the community--Main Street particularly--an interesting place to be. When we talk about a townscape program, there are certain terms that we use, and one of those is " ; patterns." ; And you discover patterns at many different levels within the street. One of the places is within the building materials, as in the example of this two-colored brickwork from Elk City. Patterns also occur at different scales, as in this example from Bristow where you can see the patterns of the buildings' ; shapes and also the patterns of the decorative elements within the building facades themselves. Historically, our Main Streets had very strong patterns. This historic photo of Ada shows examples of the patterns of the rooftops, the patterns of the windows, and the patterns of the storefronts, all of which reinforce each other as your eye travels down the street. This is an example of those same kinds of patterns being reinforced on a contemporary main street. This particular example, slide number sixteen, is from Galveston. Now as we look at a contemporary main street--and in this example, slide seventeen, we' ; re looking at Bristow' ; s model block--we discover that changes on the street as in this addition of the aluminum to the Anthony' ; s store, begin to disrupt those historic patterns on the street. Slide eighteen is an example of the new pattern that you can add to the street when you add street trees, as they have in Elk City. It' ; s another way of reinforcing the appearance of the street and adding a special level--layer of interest. Alignment is another term that we use in a townscape program, and this particular example--number twenty--shows the alignment of the rooftops of these three buildings, the alignment of the windows on the second and third floors, and the alignment of the storefront. It' ; s a very strong, horizontal element on this street which gives you a feeling of visual continuity. Slide twenty-one is an example of Granbury, Texas, and how they maintain the alignment in the second floors of the buildings, even though one of the buildings has been altered to accommodate a drive-in bank. Another technique for maintaining that horizontal band on the street, if a building has been demolished, is something like the addition of the brick columns that we see here in Tulsa that finish off a vacant lot. Let' ; s take a look at the classic Victorian storefront--it had three main parts, or it has three main parts: the band of glass above the display windows, which are called transom windows or the clerestory ; the display window itself ; and the band beneath the display window, which is the kick plate. Slide twenty-four is an example of a storefront which is almost completely intact on an Oklahoma main street. The glass above the display windows in the Stone building in Bristow is actually the original leaded glass that was put in when the building was constructed. Unfortunately, we don' ; t have the original storefronts intact in many--in most examples on our main streets, and slide twenty-five shows one of the first changes that have happened on the street, and that' ; s the closing-down of the clerestory or transom window area. Now that' ; s occurred for many different reasons. Generally, because of recessing ceilings and putting in heating and cooling ducts, people did not want that exposed to the outside, so they had to come up with an alternative for blocking in that area. Now what' ; s happened when they' ; ve done that, is they' ; ve begun to destroy the original pattern of the building front as in those two examples. Now, alternatives to how to handle that clerestory area quite obviously--one would be to maintain the original glass, and that' ; s the ideal because you do recapture or maintain the original integrity--design integrity. Possibly a more practical alternative in many of our main street cases in Oklahoma is the idea of using colored panels of just simple plywood that fit within that clerestory area and maintaining the same shape of the original windows so that you keep the pattern of the building façade intact. Typically, the example in slide twenty-nine is in Bristow and what' ; s happened is the simple closing-down of that clerestory area by using some fiberglass panels. That' ; s totally separated that interesting terra cotta detail work on the top of the building from the pedestrian and the store entrances at the first floor of the building--something that you really don' ; t want to have happen because you' ; re losing a marketing opportunity. An alternative use for that area would be the--using the clerestory area as a place to put the sign advertising the retail establishment within the building as in these two examples in Fort Collins, Colorado. Another change that we' ; ve seen happening on main street is closing down of facades, because possibly the use has changed in that building and there' ; s more privacy required for one reason or another. An alternative to this is the Fig Tree Restaurant idea which--when they needed more privacy for the diners, rather than boarding up the large display windows in the first floor of the building, they simply added a coat of black paint to the glass and added their logo so that they had the privacy for the new use of the space, but on the street you' ; ve maintained the original shapes and patterns of the windows. Second stories and what to do with space that' ; s no longer commercially viable are a real problem on Oklahoma main streets. The Coreys (ph) example is in Elk City. An alternative to that simple boarding-up of the windows would be this example of Allen' ; s Alley (ph), which uses the second-story windows as a place for actually painting a sign right on the window. They' ; ve also closed off those windows by the use of drapery and some venetian blinds. Typically, though, the Cathy' ; s Half-Size Shop and the Gift House in Ada represent what happens on the street. Rather than trying to select a way of closing down those second-story windows that keeps the design of the building front intact, you have this sort of blanket boarding-up of the second story space. The complete cover-up is another kind of change that we' ; ve seen on many main streets, and that' ; s happened because people wanted something new and something that really looked very up-to-date. What happens when you choose that approach, though, is that the mass of aluminum really effectively erases the architectural detail of the building that it' ; s covering. And very rapidly, as in the June' ; s Fashions photo slide--(chuckles) June' ; s Fashions slide--it becomes Main Street Any Place. This example' ; s in Elk City, and there' ; s nothing really particularly outstanding. All the buildings look the same. This is an example in slide thirty-nine of a building in Fort Collins, Colorado which was completely covered up as in this photo at the beginning of the townscape problem. You had no more idea what the carriage of that building was like than anything. During a townscape program, this next slide shows you what was discovered beneath all of that aluminum. You can see the arch windows, the two-color brickwork, and the very simple but interesting Victorian storefront that was all lurking beneath that aluminum. So you can reclaim what' ; s behind the aluminum. It' ; s a matter of doing a little bit of historic research with some photos to find out what to expect once you get the aluminum off. The Jeans Crossing is an example of using the total storefront to advertise the retail establishment, not just the sign, not just the display windows on the first floor, but capture the identity, the architectural interest of the whole building and have that identify the retail establishment. This next slide is also an example of the same concept. In this case, they' ; ve gone to the point of actually reflecting some of the architectural details in the diamond pattern between the second and third floor windows in the gold design on the display windows. And this kind of opportunity exists in lots of main streets. (break in recording) This opportunity exists on many Oklahoma Main Streets. This particular case in Bristow really only needs some basic maintenance and you could have the original design intact. Now in many cases, changes are necessary on the street, and a townscape program does not mean we really oppose change just for the sake of opposing change. What we do try and have people think about is that when change needs to happen within a building, that it be done sensitively and in keeping with the original design of the building, as in this example where they have altered the storefront but maintained the original brick arches that are part of the building so that you have some compatibility with the renovated first-floor with the rest of the building. The Leventhal Furs is a good example of a building which has had the first floor entirely renovated, but they' ; ve done it in such a way that it' ; s compatible with the colors and the building materials of the second and third floors, so that they did go ahead and make the change but they' ; ve maintained the continuing and the unity of the total façade. Color is quite a big issue in a main street program because it' ; s obviously--it' ; s one of--it' ; s obviously a huge visual element. Unfortunately, when we' ; ve had our brick buildings painted, as in the Ada Men' ; s Store example, that begins to eliminate a lot of the architectural detail that was right within the brickwork on the building. The B& ; B Rexall Drugs in Bristow is also an example of a native stone building, in this case, that' ; s been completely painted and so you' ; ve lost that warm, interesting color and texture of the native stone. Once buildings have been painted, there' ; s no safe way to remove the paint without damaging the brick or native stone surface, and so the thing to do is use the paint to recapture the original character of the building as in this example, you can use the color to really bring out those architectural details. The Jackson Office Equipment building in Elk City is a marvelous opportunity to use color to really highlight the details of that building, and unfortunately that hasn' ; t been discovered yet by the owners. The mini-mall is a kind of marketing concept that we' ; re beginning to see on more main streets as larger buildings are not really viable for one establishment. This particular example is in Elk City, and let' ; s just juxtapose it with the next example, and that way of advertising the retail establishments in that mini-mall. You can see how much stronger it is when you' ; re using the whole façade of the building to advertise what' ; s going on inside, and not trying to attract people just by the use of a less-than-interesting white plastic sign. The very prosperous building owner is another reason that we' ; ve--very prosperous retailer--is another reason we' ; ve seen a lot of changes on main street, and in this case at the Otasco store in Bristow, you can see the typical approach has been to paint the buildings all one color and then store of string the sign down the block to show the joint ownership. This next example is another way of expressing that joint ownership, or the expansion of a prosperous retailer. And simply by using coordinated sign bands placed right within the architecture, you understand that all three of those stores are under the same management, but they' ; ve left the original integrity of the three separate structures intact. The J.C. Penney in Elk City is the more typical approach that we see on Oklahoma main streets of simply painting the buildings the same color and then tacking the sign somewhere midway between the two. Another alternative way of announcing that joint ownership is this example of the awnings and the use of the color--the green paint--to denote the mutual ownership of this, of these three buildings. And the Todd Furniture Store in Elk City is an example of the painting everything one color and spreading the signs out, basically. Not a very exciting approach, it doesn' ; t add very much to the street. The next section we want to discuss will be signs and the fact that signs come in many different forms in the community [and] are obviously a very strong visual element. In this case, the furniture store and also kitchen stuff in Ada, you see the painted-on sign and you also see the flush-mounted sign. In many cases there' ; s a place right within the architecture of a building to put the sign, and that area was called the sign band. Here' ; s an example of the H& ; H Tire Center in Elk City that has used that existing place within the architecture to put the sign. You can see what that does to the total façade of the building--you use the whole building as a way to advertise the store, not just the sign, not just the display windows. A much stronger kind of marketing approach. The Alamo is also a good example of placement of sign within the architecture so that it' ; s integrated into the façade of the building. Both the Alamo and then the Tuckbox Alamo are good examples of that approach. Sims Mini-Mart is in a group of buildings that the owners got together and decided that they would try a joint marketing approach, and by coordinating their sign bands, using a new coat of paint and some awnings, came up with this kind of a joint statement which really strengthens the street and helps each of the retailers within the establishment attract more customers. The white plastic interior lip sign with the red letters is a very classic sign for main street. The problem is, there' ; s so many of them now that it really doesn' ; t stand out. It' ; s not special, it doesn' ; t say anything unusual to potential customers. The idea of shape signs is a creative alternative to that very standard white plastic approach and it' ; s something that has a great deal of appeal to pedestrians. The Cook' ; s Fancy is a neat kind of example of using the shapes within the sign and then reflecting it within the display and the display window to reinforce that identity for potential customers. Awnings are another kind of element on the street and awnings can be used--as in this case at the Big Cheese--to make a clever kind of marketing statement. Or, in this example where we have two retailers within the same building who decide they want to work together, the awnings and the use of coordinated sign bands integrate that whole façade so that they are reinforcing one another' ; s marketing strategy. Here' ; s an example with two brick buildings--one-story brick buildings in Bristow that are of a very similar type and a joint approach between these retailers using coordinated awnings and placement of signs could make a very strong statement to the street. As it is now, they' ; re each sort of trying to get their own message across and neither one terribly successfully. Townscape programs are also concerned about pedestrians and the areas within the street that are intended for pedestrian use and for automobile use. And in this example you can see that there' ; s normally very little definition between those zones. There' ; s no way of defining that edge. Now here' ; s one way that could improve that--the use of some simple shrubs to define where the pedestrian area is, where the parking lot is, where the area is for the automobiles. And here' ; s another way of defining that edge--the use of an inexpensive wooden fence and also some shrubbery. You can see in this example, they' ; ve also used some courses of brickwork within the sidewalk to vary the paving surface and add a little bit more interest to the street for the people, and obviously you want people on your streets if you want people to come into your stores and do some business there. But more typically, this example in Ada is the way we find out streets divided into different zones. You can see that the pedestrian zone is gray concrete that' ; s separated from the gray asphalt of the street through the use of the gray aluminum poles--not very interesting, not very inviting. Here' ; s an alternative: the use of some brick paving along the edge of the sidewalk and the addition of a few street trees and planters. A simple kind of alternative that makes a huge difference to people on the street. Here' ; s another kind of alternative--the use of some granite pavers for the sidewalk surface, and then some plants and trees and benches, that makes the street an inviting place to be and lets the pedestrian know that there really is a place intended for them, that they' ; re welcome on the street, and obviously the automobile zone is clearly defined. " ; Street furniture" ; is an interesting kind of euphemism which refers to the items that we furnish our streets--the signs, the waste receptacles, and in this case also the mailbox. Here' ; s an example of how street furniture can be effectively grouped--you see the waste receptacle, the slight swelling of the corner so that there' ; s a place for the shrubs, and then the bicycle rack. Street furniture can be used to add a lot of special interest and character to the community. Also, makes the street an interest place for people to spend time. Public information is something that every community is concerned about, and this is typically the way it is presented on a tall aluminum pole, which becomes rusted and is easily bent. A very simple alternative to that would be the use of a low wooden stake that actually puts that information at driver' ; s-eye level and doesn' ; t have the spindly quality, I guess you could say, of the aluminum poles. Another way to add special interest to a community is through the different signage that you use to communicate street names as in this case. The Two Market Street indicator just really makes the place seem a little bit more interesting than just your average standard way of explaining that. Now this is an example of how you can find parking and this is also an example. There' ; s two different ways of presenting it, and just think for a minute which way you would rather get your information and which--and what kind of an impression it gives you of that community. Parking is always an incredible issue in downtowns. There never seems to be enough parking, so let' ; s take a minute and look at parking lots--and this is a typical one in Ada. You can see that generally, parking lots tend to be rather inhospitable environments that aren' ; t terribly inviting. And a little bit of landscaping can make a huge difference, as in this case with a simple grass median and a few trees, a different type light fixture, makes the parking lot more manageable, less dreadful in the summertime when we have all that heat rising up off the asphalt. Alleyways are another thing to consider in a townscape program because while you have existing assets in a town, as we talked about in the beginning of the show, there' ; s also hidden opportunities and simple treatments, as in this case the addition of some trees to the alleyway, can make a huge difference in the impression that people have of the community. Storage tanks and water towers are also another neat kind of opportunity that we have in many Oklahoma towns, and it' ; s potentially a very good project for local arts councils to sponsor a design competition and come up with some sort of a mural that can be used to decorate those tanks. This example is a mural that was done on some storage tanks outside of Boston. Makes them a real asset, rather than some sort of a looming eyesore on the horizon. Any size community can participate in a townscape program, and this particular example is Normandy, Tennessee. You can see the interesting hand-carved sign they' ; ve selected to announce their community and give it a special identity. You can also see here that they' ; ve applied some of these principles we' ; ve been talking about. They' ; ve used some awnings, the use of color coordinating the awnings with the buildings, they' ; ve put street trees in, little shrubs and planters, and also some interesting light fixtures. Now this is a very small town. That' ; s the entire main street of Normandy, Tennessee, population 350. Yet they felt strongly that they wanted to make a special statement about their community and chose this approach. A larger townscape program happened in Chelsea, Massachusetts and in that townscape program stores like Hattie' ; s discovered that behind that oversized sign they had this kind of a storefront lurking. Very simple, brick columns with capitals at the top replace the large sign with a sign that fits within the architecture of the building and simply used some dark anodizing paint on the bright aluminum storefront so that it toned it down and brings the whole façade into a unity so that now Hattie' ; s is not advertised just by her sign, but by the whole front of that building. Allen' ; s was also a building in a Chelsea and you can see that it' ; s really anybody' ; s guess what' ; s going to be under all of that advertising once it' ; s peeled away from the building, but through using some old photos the designers discovered that behind that advertising would probably be a façade of this type. You can see the dental work in the brick at the top of the building. Well here on the left is Allen' ; s implemented today. And you can also get some sense of the other stores on that block in Chelsea and how they applied these townscape principles we' ; re talking about. Look at the rather attractive shuttered treatment on the second story of the Card Gallery. An alternative to the main street problem, the second-story main street problem we' ; ve been talking about for Oklahoma towns. This is the way the street looked in Chelsea prior to the townscape program. That same lack of definition problem, lack of edge, there' ; s the gray asphalt, the gray aluminum poles, and then the gray sidewalk. Not a very inviting place for pedestrians. And here' ; s that same street today, after the townscape program. Now you can see, this is a rather elaborate approach. They' ; ve bricked the sidewalks, added new light fixtures, the street trees and very elaborate grillwork to protect the trees. But look how inviting and interesting it makes that street, and obviously there' ; s a whole lot more activity going on on that street now because it' ; s more of a vital place to be. Basically, this gives you an overview of the issues we' ; re concerned about in a townscape program, and once again the thing to consider is What are the assets on your main street and your town. Drop back and look for those and then look at the things that maybe you' ; re not so proud of and begin to consider what kinds of changes could be made that will highlight the assets that exist within your community, strengthen those architectural features in the buildings, and not disrupt those original patterns that existed and that gave main street its special identity and gave the buildings their special unity. (end of recording) audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0016-01_Lecture.xml OHP-0016-01_Lecture.xml
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Lecture: Storefronts of Bristow
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This is an undated recording of an unknown woman presenting a professional lecture on maintaining the historical storefronts and township of Bristow.
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Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow
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Debbie Blansett
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Frank Deuel Chapman
Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman
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Frank Chapman
Bristow
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5.4 OHP2-0001 Frank Deuel Chapman and Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman OHP2-0001 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bristow Histories Frank Chapman Bristow Frank Deuel Chapman Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman Debbie Blansett MP3 1:|28(2)|48(3)|71(13)|100(2)|117(1)|128(7)|144(13)|156(13)|191(5)|208(2)|240(6)|270(15)|291(2)|333(9)|372(14)|396(7)|411(13)|433(4)|474(1)|517(14)|538(7)|563(3)|591(9)|645(3)|694(4)|724(6)|753(6)|799(5)|832(6)|890(2)|944(14)|965(2)|975(9)|986(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP2-001 Frank Chapman.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it’s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I’m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their—in their home, and they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you’ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that’s all of us. We’re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? Introduction of interview and early history of Frank and Gloria Chapman covered wagon ; embalmer ; Frank Deuel Chapman ; Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman ; Hugh Chapman ; Thelma Chapman ; World War I Chapman Funeral Home ; Frank Chapman ; Gloria Chapman 263 Moving to Bristow and early medical practice DB: Alright. Okay, so today you’re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency—an internship in Tulsa—Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long—P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would’ve probably worked out. Discussion of moving to Bristow Dr. Norfleet ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp ; Rinda Farris ; Sisler Hospital Bristow ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp 516 Colleagues and Co-Workers DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office— FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet— FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had ‘em spoiled, though. Discussion and memories of co-workers Charmaine ; Dr. Norfleet ; Edna Mitchell ; house calls ; Jo Forester ; June Keiser ; Mrs. Korkames ; Myra Jane Trigalet ; Thea Runt coworkers ; doctor ; nurse ; receptionist 691 Hospital Fundraisers DB: So, at the—at the hospital, they—it had been built in the— FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still— FC: It was— DB: It needed to be updated— FC: It needed to be updated— Fundraisers for medical equipment fundraisers ; hosptial ; nurses ; St. Francis ; Tracy Kelly fundraisers ; hospitals 787 Rexall Drug Store FC: --I had one other story: I—I went—well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and—(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was— Meeting Berta at Rexall Drug Store Bristow ; Rexall Drug Store Rexall Drug Store 844 Friendship with Max Kemp DB: And Max—you didn’t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I’d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in— FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and—you know. Friendship with Max Kemp Jennifer Kemp ; Max Kemp Max Kemp 892 Stories about Emory King FC: Anyway. That’s—that’s about the only good stories I’ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don’t know whether I’ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine— DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) Stories about Emory King anesthesia ; Emory King ; ether ; surgery ; tonsils Emory King ; surgery ; tonsils 1071 Changes in Anesthesia DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. Changes in anesthesia anesthesia ; ether ; St Francis ; surgery anesthesia ; ether ; sugery 1152 Retirement DB: And you were in practice from— FC: Sixty-four to— DB: Nineteen sixty-four— FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? Dr. Chapman eases into retirement brain bleed ; Bristow ; Cherokee ; retirement retirement 1300 Church and community involvement DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma’am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and— GC: Yeah, he’s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time— Church and community involvement Bristow ; church ; football ; wrestling church ; community 1369 Discussion of children's events and family tree DB: And I know that you have been—I’ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn’t seem as important as they used to. They—then they were really important when the kids were parti—my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We— FC: My daughter was a majorette in the—or, a drum major her senior year, and— GC: And in the band. Discussion of children's events and family tree band ; Debbie Chapman ; fishing ; football ; Hugh Chapman ; hunting ; music ; wrestling community ; family ; sports 1533 Updates on grown children DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso—or that’s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. Updates on grown children Benny Chapman ; Debbie ; Frankie Chapman ; Matt Chapman ; Physician Family 1687 Story of the name " ; Petula" ; and the birth of Matthew GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was— FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just— Story of the name " ; Petula" ; baby ; Matthew ; names ; Petula Petula 1842 Conclusion and Poem by Deborah DB: I just think it’s really neat that—that just the distance you’ve come. And the people that helped get you there—that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn’t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I’m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine— Conclusion and Poem by Deborah Deborah Chapman ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp Conclusion ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp ; poem FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it' ; s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I' ; m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their--in their home, and they' ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you' ; ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that' ; s all of us. We' ; re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? FC: Born January the 26, 1934 in Cleveland, Oklahoma. DB: And you were Frank Deuel-- FC: Deuel Chapman. DB: Were you born at home or in a hospital? FC: At home. DB: And your parents--what were their names? FC: Hugh Chapman and Thelma Chapman. DB: And were your parents married? FC: (chuckling) Yes, they were married. DB: Or at least that' ; s what they told you. FC: (chuckling) That' ; s what they told me. DB: Tell me how they came to be in Oklahoma. FC: My mother came to Oklahoma from Kansas in a covered wagon to a little community outside of Stillwater, and they lived in a sod house for a while and eventually they moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma, where her folks--Mrs. Deuel and Albert Deuel--ran a hotel and boarding house. And the whole family participated in the running of the--feeding of workers and housing. So it was kind of a nice operation. GC: Mmm-hmm. DB: And your dad? FC: My dad came to Oklahoma after serving in World War II. GC: One, hon. FC: Oh, World War I. Gee, I kinda--that' ; s right. World War I, to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and he was a licensed mortician--or embalmer, and worked there for a little while and then moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma and operated out of one of the furniture stores there for about a year or so, and then opened his own business--the Chapman Funeral Home. And it' ; s still in existence. It' ; s called Chapman-Black, now. DB: And he runs it with his son-in-law--or I mean he ran it with his son-in-- FC: Yeah--he run it with his son-in-law. DB: And you said that--that he had a claim to fame, your father. FC: Yeah, he was one of the first legal embalmers in the State of Oklahoma. (chuckles) DB: And pretty young, when he became that. FC: Yeah, about I think nineteen, something like that. DB: How many brothers and sisters do you have? FC: I have two sisters and one brother. DB: And their names? FC: Betty Jo (ph), Billie Lou (ph), and Hugh Moody, Jr. DB: Your father was a mortician, did your mother work outside the home? FC: She--yes. She--initially, she worked outside the home. She worked in a bank as a secretary and teller. And then when they opened their own business she went to work with them. DB: And your spouse, Mrs. Gloria. FC: Yeah. GC: I graduated from high school and went to work for the REA--or the Indian Electric, then. And worked a year ' ; til he graduated. So then we got married. (chuckles) DB: Okay. And you got married on what day? FC: Fourteenth day of June 1952. DB: And you have how many children? FC: Four. DB: And what are their names? FC: Deborah Jean, Frank Deuel Chapman, Jr., Benj Clay--Benjamin Chapman, and Matthew Clay Chapman. DB: Alright. Okay, so today you' ; re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency--an internship in Tulsa--Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long--P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would' ; ve probably worked out. But anyway, Max Kemp came to visit me there while I was practicing, and said that he would like for me to come to Bristow and meet the people, because they needed a doctor and their doctor was leaving town--who was Dr. Norfleet. So I went to visit. I went to Dr. Norfleet' ; s home in Bristow. It was on a Wednesday evening. And they had several people there, and they were having a nice party and I thought, Well, this would be a nice place to live, you know? Anyway, he was very gracious and I thought it over and I decided to come. To Bristow. I came to Bristow on--I started practice on June 1, 1964. And I was at the Bristow Hospital on the first day of my journey, and talking to Norfleet, and he was telling me what he had to do. And then he said, Hey, by the way, would you like to deliver a baby? And I said, Why not? DB: (chuckling) FC: So I delivered Rinda Farris that very day of my first day in practice in the Bristow Hospital. I had a office on West Eighth Street--which was the old Sisler Hospital when I first came to town--and I mean it was old. Antiquated. X-ray machine looked like the original Roentgen--who' ; s invented x-ray--put it in. DB: (chuckles) FC: But anyway, made do until we got enough money together so we could get a better one. Which we did, eventually. I started my practice there, then subsequently moved from there to on West Fifth Street where I--we remodeled an old building and had my office. And I retired out of that office. I delivered babies for the first few years in practice, and in the mid-70s I quit delivering babies just to get some rest. (chuckles) DB: (chuckles) FC: Invariably when I' ; d go off to do something and then I' ; d come home and lay down and go to sleep, it would be, Dr., this is the hospital, Mrs. So-and-so' ; s in labor and, you know, you' ; d be completely wore out. So, I did that for two or three or four years, and finally I said, That' ; s enough. I' ; m not doing that any more. So I quit ob. I helped the hospital get some modernization. We got the first intensive care beds in our hospital--with monitoring from St. Francis with them--we got that done. Then we got a new monitored crib for newborns, and then subsequently all of the doctors quit delivering babies. (laughing) So we didn' ; t get much use out of it. DB: When did that start--that they stopped delivering babies? FC: Oh, it was in-- GC: When Matt was born. FC: When Matt? I think Matt was the last one born out there. DB: So, like, in the late sixties? FC: Yeah, yeah. I delivered my own, and on occasions I delivered of some of the other doctors--I mean, Dr. Krug or Dr. Cooper' ; s babies when they needed sections, ' ; cause they couldn' ; t do sections. I--I did ' ; em for ' ; em. DB: So they continued after the sixties. FC: Yeah, they continued after I quit. But they--then they--after they got tired, they (chuckles) also gave it up. DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office-- FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet-- FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had ' ; em spoiled, though. GC: (laughing) FC: He--they' ; d say, Well, wait--I don' ; t feel like comin' ; down today, will you come by the house? you know, and they--that stuff. And I did that for a while! And finally I said, No, I' ; m not doing that anymore. If they call, say, No, he' ; s quit making house calls, you have to come see him. That' ; s all there is to it. DB: So they stayed with you as long as you stayed on Eighth, and then you got new staff when you moved to Fifth? FC: No, I--they took ' ; em with--I took my staff with me over to the Fifth Street. I took--Charmaine went over with me, and Jo Forester went with me. And they stayed. And then Charmaine moved off. And then Jo retired, and then we got--and also June Keiser (ph) was our receptionist, and she stayed there, and then she got sick and then retired. So-- GC: And then Dr. Mitchell' ; s wife? FC: And then I had-- DB: Edna? FC: Yeah. GC: Edna. FC: I had Edna Mitchell for a while in my lab. And then, I think, Thea Runt (ph) worked in our lab for us. And Mrs.--oh, gosh. GC: Charmaine, though I can' ; t remember her last name. FC: Yeah, I was thinking-- GC: That' ; s awful. FC: Myra Jane Trigalet was my office nurse for a year. And then she went to--I hated to lose her--she went to the nursing home ' ; cause they could pay more money than I could. (chuckling) But that--she was a delight. I mean, a real delight. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: I don' ; t--I don' ; t know whether you knew her or not, but-- DB: I don' ; t know that I knew her. I remember Larry' ; s mother speaking fondly of her. FC: She was--I-- She was made of cast iron. She lost a son who was electrocuted. One lost in the war. Lost two in car wrecks in Tulsa--killed one day over there. And she kept on going, you know, I don' ; t know how but she did. And she was just a delightful person. Her and Mrs. Korkames were the building blocks of the Catholic church! (laughing) And every Christmas they had the Christmas sales for cookies and what have you, and everybody shopped with them up there. DB: They still do that. FC: Yeah. We do, we still buy their stuff. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: But that was kind of neat. DB: So, at the--at the hospital, they--it had been built in the-- FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still-- FC: It was-- DB: It needed to be updated-- FC: It needed to be updated-- DB: --and they were behind-- FC: --and they, they needed new things. Like, they needed monitoring systems for cardiac patients in the intensive care unit--which we got. Initially, we got it on a remote basis from St. Francis. We had a direct line from St. Francis to our emergency room and they--the nurses could talk to St. Francis, tell them what our patients had, what we needed to do, and how to do it. And that went on a while, and then finally we got our nurses educated and they could do their own evaluations and treatment. DB: So did you have to have big fundraisers to get these-- FC: I--I--I--- DB: How did you? FC: --went up and down Main Street! (chuckling) Talked to people, said We need this, can you, can you help us out? And we got it done. DB: You said that when you were new in town, you had gone to the bank. FC: Yeah! I went to meet--I went to talk to Tracy Kelly when I come to town, and told him I was a new doctor in town and that I had a thousand dollars in my pocket and I probably was going to need some money to open my office and keep it going for a while, and I wondered if I could get a loan if I needed it. And he said, Write the check. And so--but I never had to do that. DB: Well. That' ; s nice to know it was there if you-- FC: Oh, yeah! DB: --needed to. FC: Yeah. GC: They took us on a hayride, we--(indecipherable) FC: --I had one other story: I--I went--well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and--(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was-- GC: Oh--Bert, Berth-- FC: Bertha! Berta. (ph) GC: Berta! (ph) FC: Berta. (ph) Anyway. Berta (ph) was there. And I went in there and asked about something and she was really indignant, you know? And just really giving me old billy hell, you know, about why she' ; s doing this and that, and I thought, Okay, well I' ; ve got a big surprise. She said, Who are you, boy? And I said, I' ; m the new doctor in town. I' ; m going to write prescriptions in this community and WHOOOO-WELL! (pounding noise) DB: Complete change in her attitude! FC: (loudly) Here we are, welcome to--welcome to Bristow! (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: So I thought that was kind of neat. DB: Yes. FC: And we got along fine after that. No problems. DB: And Max--you didn' ; t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I' ; d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in-- FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and--you know. GC: Well, you delivered their baby. FC: Yeah. I delivered Rin--I delivered Rinda on the first and about the tenth or twelfth I delivered Jennifer. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Kemp. DB: Just right after you came here. FC: Yeah. So I delivered two babies within two weeks after I got here. DB: Oh, wow. (laughing) Say, This is a young man, we' ; re gonna get him while he' ; s-- FC: Yeah, while he' ; s-- DB: --his legs are good. FC: --while he' ; s fresh, you know. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Anyway. That' ; s--that' ; s about the only good stories I' ; ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don' ; t know whether I' ; ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine-- DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) FC: He would--came here in about the early 1900s. And he was one of a kind. He met me at the hospital one day and said, Would you like to go my--see my farm? And I told him, Yeah. I' ; d like to do that. So I got in the car with him and the first thing he did was unwrapped a new package of tobacco, promptly poured it in his coat pocket, dipped his pipe in it and lit it, then we backed up and run into something and went Bang! And he says, Time to go forward now. And then we took off and-- DB: Oh, my goodness. FC: We took--took off and went to his farm. Aand we got back safe and sound, by the way. DB: And he was an older man when this happened? FC: He was in his nineties. Anyway. GC: But he was loved. (chuckles) FC: I--I swore then that I would never ride with him again, you know? But two or three days later he said, Do you do tonsils, doctor? And I said, Yeah, I do tonsils. He said, I got one scheduled in the morning. And I said, Who' ; s gonna give the anesthesia? And he said, Oh, I am. And I thought, Oh, God. Help me, Lord. Why did I volunteer for this? But anyway, I got up. I didn' ; t sleep all night the night before. And I got up and we went in and scrubbed up. Took the patient to surgery. He got an ether mask and a can and started dripping ether. The kid went to sleep. I took his tonsils out. We didn' ; t have any problem whatsoever. And I thank the Lord for every bit of that, I' ; ll tell you for sure. Because I was uptight the whole time. One other incident--he was--he had one of his patients come to see me. And we' ; d had some words before. And she come in very humble and said, Would you take care of me? And I said, Why sure, I' ; m gonna do it. And I said, Well what' ; s the problem? And she said, Well, I' ; ve--you know, I' ; ve been going to Dr. King forever. He' ; s been here forever. And I just dearly love him, but she said, I think he' ; s too old. And I said, Well, why do--why do you think that? She said, Well I went over there yesterday and, she said, I had a sore throat and he looked at me and said, Well, we' ; ll give you a shot. He said, Hike your dress tail up there and I' ; ll give you a shot. She said, I did. And he give me a shot, but he stuck me in the finger instead of in my butt! DB: (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: And she decided that right then and there that she needed to change doctors. DB: (laughing) Yes. Yes. FC: I think that' ; s a--that' ; s a unique story about Dr. King. DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. FC: Oh, yeah, they don' ; t do that now. Number one, ether is a fire hazard. I mean--you can' ; t have any spark or it blows the damn building up. So, that was a hazard. And then--it wasn' ; t real handy. And the people were sick after they got it. And they got a lot better anesthetics now. DB: Yes. FC: They give IV anesthetics and (indecipherable). DB: But the fact that--that' ; s how you did those surgeries. FC: Yeah. Yeah. DB: That' ; s a pretty amazing thing. GC: And-and you know-- DB: To see that we started here-you started here, and now it' ; s progressed-- FC: Yeah. DB: --to where we are now. GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. GC: Yeah. FC: Yeah. The anesthesia has really changed. And--and our hospital' ; s changed. We' ; ve been--went from a storage hospital to a hospital that actually treated people, you know. We just stored ' ; em. I mean, we had a--we developed an intensive care unit with a monitoring system and this monitoring system was initially connected to St. Francis by a phone wire that was permanent. And they could monitor these people in conjunction with us, and we could keep our people at home. Which was nice. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: That took some doing. DB: And you were in practice from-- FC: Sixty-four to-- DB: Nineteen sixty-four-- FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? FC: For a little--about three months. DB: (laughs) GC: (laughs) DB: And then what did you do? FC: Started doing locals--working for other doctors. I worked for-- GC: The Cherokees. FC: What was her name here? What was her name here? GC: Ummm. FC: You know who I' ; m talking about. The lady doctor that was up on Main Street. GC: Oh! Yeah. FC: Well, I can' ; t think of her name. GC: I can' ; t-- FC: But I did it for the people here. Did work for the other doctors when they wanted to go on--on vacation. And then at other places. I' ; ve worked in Nowata and Sallisaw and Stilwell and other places. GC: That was the Cherokees, he was filling in. FC: Yeah, and just filling in. And I did this until I was, oh, eighty-five. And then I--I had a misfortune. I was helping a man fix our tv antennae. Fell backwards in the closet. Bumped my head, and didn' ; t think anything about it. Two weeks later, I went to work and I started to write and I couldn' ; t write. My hand wouldn' ; t go in the right ways. DB: Oh! FC: And I went home and I told my--I told the attending there, I said, I' ; ve--I' ; ve got to leave. There' ; s something wrong. He offered to drive me home, but I said, No, I can drive, don' ; t worry. So I got, went home and got her. And we were gonna go pay our taxes. And I couldn' ; t get the damned car in the parking lot--as big as this damned house. DB: Mmm-mmm. FC: And she said, I' ; m gonna call Matt. That' ; s our oldest son--I mean, our youngest son. And he came over and he drove us to No--to Owasso where my daughter was a physician. And they did a scan on my head and I had a midline shift on my brain from a bleed. And they sent me to Tulsa and the next morning I was in hospital and had holes bored in my head and the blood clots removed and recovered in about six months. And I was back going again. And I--I did a little bit, not much. And I decided it was time to quit. DB: That was pretty much it. GC: Yeah. FC: Time to quit. But-- DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and-- GC: Yeah, he' ; s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time-- FC: Yeah, and try to help them with their finances and things like that. I was there--don' ; t you go to-- DB: Yes. FC: We don' ; t get many people. (chuckles) DB: No. We-- FC: Count of ten! (chuckles) DB: Yes. Kind of thin, now. Were you a Sunday school teacher, Gloria? GC: I helped out some. But I mostly was the choir, you know. I was in--I guess I sang in that choir for about thirty-something years. Dixie was my best friend. DB: Do anything--and Dixie was your best friend. She' ; s a good one. GC: Yeah, we did some--we' ; d sing together. We did some funeral services and-- FC: Yeah. GC: But she was. She--I loved my Dixie. DB: And I know that you have been--I' ; ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn' ; t seem as important as they used to. They--then they were really important when the kids were parti--my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We-- FC: My daughter was a majorette in the--or, a drum major her senior year, and-- GC: And in the band. FC: The kids played this and that. The kids wrassled a little bit, but not much. DB: And you said that your nephew? FC: (Indecipherable) DB: --was the big wrestler? FC: Yeah, he was two-time state champion in 19--oh, 59. No, 19--58, ' ; 59, ' ; 59 and ' ; 60, I think. About then. DB: And his name? FC: Hugh. Chapman. They called him H. GC: Well, he has a Debbie Chapman, too. His mama. You probably know her. DB: Debbie Chapman? GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) DB: Yes. FC: That' ; s his mama. GC: Yeah, her-- FC: That' ; s my nephew. GC: --her mother and daddy owned a funeral home in Hominy. And there were about six of those kids, all together. DB: Debbie owned a funeral home? FC: Her--his, her-- GC: Her mo--her father. FC: Her father did. DB: Her father. GC: Her father. DB: So there' ; s a Chapman now that' ; s a Debbie Chapman--Deborah Chapman. And she' ; s married to H.M.? GC: Yeah. DB: So this is like his--your nephew' ; s son? GC: They' ; re named after each other, aren' ; t they? DB: Oh, okay. FC: Yeah. GC: Isn' ; t that right? DB: Because he was a wrestler, and then he had boys--they had two boys that-- GC: Yeah, two boys. DB: --were big wrestlers. FC: Yeah. And one was-- DB: Jack, and-- FC: --and you had H. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. DB: So--and you--your boys really liked hunting and fishing. FC: Yeah, they did. GC: And music. FC: And-- DB: And music. GC: Lots of music. FC: Yeah. Yeah. Matt was in the band. And Benny was in the band. No--Matt was in the band about a month, and then he quit. But Benny was in the band and he--and Frankie was in the--Frankie played the tuba, and Benny--what the hell did he play? GC: I don' ; t know about Frank-- FC: Well, he played the drums. Benny was the drummer. I always did cry because he had them damned kettle drums, you know, about three or four of ' ; em and you couldn' ; t haul ' ; em in the car. I had to have a truck. GC: (laughing) DB: (laughing) Yes. Same way with a tuba. FC: They had a tuba-- DB: ' ; Cause we had a tuba player at our house. FC: Yeah? Well we happened to have--Frankie played the tuba, too. And he was a little bitty boy! I couldn' ; t understand that. GC: You could just see his little head. (laughing) FC: Couldn' ; t hardly see him for the horn! (laughing) GC: He was our smallest. Our oldest boy was--is the smallest of the boys. FC: Yeah, he' ; s about five-six, I imagine. DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso--or that' ; s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. DB: Oh, she does mission work? FC: No, they just live down there. DB: (laughs) GC: Well, in a way she does, because she--if there' ; s any little kids--which there' ; s a bunch that needs taken care of and they don' ; t have any doctor to help them in this--out. And so, she' ; s just took it on herself to take care of ' ; em and-- FC: Benny-- GC: --no charge, no nothing, you know, just--she loves kid--she loves kids. FC: Benny--Benny lives in Sapulpa, and he is the one that was a policeman and trooper. State trooper. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Matthew lives in--damn. GC: The college town. FC: Man, I' ; m a little--my new senior moments are getting me. DB: (chuckles) FC: Anyway. Where NSU--wherever you know where that-- DB: Tahlequah! GC: Tahlequah! FC: Tahlequah! Okay, he--he' ; s a--he' ; s a financial counselor. Or he has an Edward Jones office there. DB: So they' ; re all--except the one in Louisiana--they' ; re fairly close and you get to see them, and-- FC: Yeah! They' ; re real close. GC: Yeah. And we just lost a grandson. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And it was his boy. They had a-- DB: Was Matt--Matt' ; s son? FC: No, was Frankie' ; s son. DB: Oh. GC: Frankie' ; s son. FC: Frankie' ; s son. He was thirty-five years old. GC: (simultaneously) Thirty-five years old. DB: That' ; s a--that' ; s a tough loss. GC: It--it really is. I just feel so sorry for ' ; em. They had the boy and the girl. The girl was the oldest. And she has two children of her own. And they' ; re in--is it Atlanta? FC: Hmm? GC: Rachel. FC: Yeah, they live in South Carolina. I don' ; t know what the name of the town is. GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was-- FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just-- GC: Well, the nurses at the hospital were just going bananas. They said, He surely--you' ; re not gonna let him name that--if it' ; s a girl--Petula. Said, Well, I don' ; t know! (chuckles) DB: Didn' ; t have to worry about it, because you had a boy. FC: Had a boy! GC: Oh, they were just thrilled to death! (laughs) And Doctor Jones delivered him. But Frank was in there with me. And so I leaned over on his shoulder and they gave me the--whatever it is, the shot. FC: Yeah. GC: And it was the best delivery I' ; d ever had! DB: So they--would that--was that commonplace? To at that time in 1967--that the dad would be with the mom? Or was it because you were-- FC: I think it was because I was a doctor. DB: Okay. GC: (laughing) He kept waiting to see Petula! DB: (laughing) It wasn' ; t a normal thing like now? FC: No. DB: Where dads-- FC: Where the whole damn family' ; s in there! You know? DB: Uh-huh. (agreeing) GC: No-- DB: Well, before COVID. FC: Yeah, COVID. DB: Now it' ; s just so bad. FC: Now they can' ; t gather up-- DB: But--couldn' ; t wait to see your Petula! FC: Couldn' ; t wait to see her! You know, we got it, though. GC: Your Petula? And then, our minister then was Reverend Fontaine. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And so he came out there. And he said, Oh, I' ; m just so glad the Methodists are still (laughing) DB: That the Methodists are what? GC: --still having children! (laughing) I guess-- DB: (laughing) GC: He said it different, but he just kind of giggled. And then the--the other kids, they just couldn' ; t wait to see him. FC: He said, When is Mark and Luke and John coming? GC: Oh, yeah! He said-- FC: I said, I don' ; t think that--(laughing) DB: But you had Benjamin and Matthew, but Frank wasn' ; t-- FC: No, he didn' ; t come until-- DB: Oh, okay. GC: Now, there is a Deuel in the Bible. DB: Really! GC: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: A duel like--a fight? FC: No, like a name! GC: You leave out one ' ; e,' ; so-- DB: You leave out one of the e' ; s. GC: D-U-E-L instead of the D-U- FC: E-L. GC: Yeah. DB: E-U-E FC: Yeah. GC: But, and--and then Deborah. There' ; s a Deborah in the Bible. DB: Yes. GC: But you probably knew that. FC: And a Matthew. GC: And a Matthew. DB: And a Benjamin. FC & ; GC (simultaneously): And a Benjamin. FC: Well, all of our kids are-- DB: You' ; re covered. FC: They' ; re covered. DB: You' ; re covered. FC: They' ; re gonna make it to heaven. You know? Their name counts. (laughing) DB: Well, I just-- FC: I think they' ; ll (indecipherable) James or Williams! DB: I just think it' ; s really neat that--that just the distance you' ; ve come. And the people that helped get you there--that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn' ; t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I' ; m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine-- FC: Alumni. DB: Alumni. And a pic--it' ; s a medal, a picture of the medal will go with this and a picture of the-- GC: Here' ; s another one. This is all the doctors-- DB: Of the doctors that were present at the fifty-year ceremony. GC: This-- DB: So I' ; ll add those. And then the last one I added was a poem that their daughter Deborah wrote for them on the occasion of their fiftieth anniversary. It says, Frank and Gloria Chapman, Life Together. It all started in a small town/Frank lived there his entire life/He was uptown and wasn' ; t believing/He saw the girl he would make his wife/They courted all through junior and high school/They decided let' ; s get married and then/We can set about building our life and begin/Frank pondered what would we do with our lives/Gloria said go to medical school, you' ; re no fool/We can treat animals or people, whatever you choose/As long as we are together, we have nothing to lose/With the love and help from both families/They survived college, medical school, and internships/They traveled near and far, scrimped and saved/Went the distance that was set/So they could make their own way/They started their family with a small girl/Then came three boys/All with their handsome looks, dark hair, and blue eyes/Everyone would always recognize/A Chapman child was truly a blessing/For Frank and Gloria, life kept on being a lesson/Through weddings, babies, life, and death/In love and in loss, we all learned the meaning/ Of true love, family, and commitment/Their love is a lesson for all to receive/You never know what will happen when you truly believe/As long as you are together you can achieve/Anything is possible as long as you believe. June 14, 1952 through eternity. I want to thank you all again for allowing me--twice!--to interview you for the Bristow Historical Society' ; s Oral Histories Project. And if you don' ; t have anything else to share, I' ; m going to sign off. FC: Alright. GC: Well, we' ; ve enjoyed having you! FC: Yeah! DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: We really have and I--like I told Frank, I said I can remember back, I always thought they were the sweetest couple--and then that baby was just a doll. DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: So. (end of recording) audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml
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Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman
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OHP2-0001
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Bristow Histories
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2020-11-10
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In this November 2020 interview, Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman discuss how they arrived in Bristow to begin a new medical career, Dr. King, improvements at the local hospital, medical coworkers, loyal friends, church and community involvement and his love of his family.
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Oral History
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Wanda Newton
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Jesse "J.L." Darnell
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP2-0002 Jesse " ; J.L." ; Darnell OHP2-0002 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Lectures Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jesse " ; J.L." ; Darnell Wanda Newton MP3 1:|12(2)|23(1)|35(8)|46(9)|53(17)|65(10)|76(3)|85(1)|95(10)|107(10)|119(7)|129(6)|141(10)|155(7)|166(11)|175(11)|184(4)|196(13)|208(9)|217(16)|223(6)|230(4)|241(1)|253(13)|263(1)|271(15)|281(5)|291(3)|307(9)|316(15)|327(9)|340(3)|348(1)|360(1)|364(13)|371(13)|379(9)|389(2)|400(13)|409(1)|419(8)|429(1)|442(11)|453(3)|463(7)|480(6)|510(4)|519(12)|540(11)|561(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0021 Darnell, JL.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction, Statehood, and first Oklahoma Schools WN: -ninety-six. I’m Wanda Newton. I’m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he’s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He’s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I—it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don’t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. Discussion of the first schools in Oklahoma buggy ; Constitutional Convention ; Creek County ; Creek County Superintendent ; Jeff Burgess ; Jesse Darnell ; JL Darnell ; Oklahoma ; P.T. Frye ; Raymond Freeland ; schools ; statehood ; subscription school ; Wanda Newton schools ; statehood : https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/id/5031/ A historical map showing some of these schools (McCasland Maps, 1917) https://us-places.com/Oklahoma/Creek-County.htm A list of additional historical schools in Creek County 203 Walking to school and one room schoolhouses Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they’d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or ‘15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Small districts so children could walk to school fire ; one-room school ; school ; stove one room school 317 Board of Education and Elections They organized—you know how a board of education—as soon as the—as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected—they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn’t hold elections like we do today. They’d—they’d post five notices in the district that they’s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. Formation of board of education and holding elections board members ; board of education ; clerk ; director ; election ; member ; school board board of education ; election 417 Millage and organizing school districts All right, now. One of the things that they voted on—after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn’t—didn’t—they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that’d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn’t get but about $40 or $50 a month. Discussion of millage and the division of school districts Big Deep Fork ; Bristow ; Iron Post ; Little Deep Fork ; millage ; Mills Chapel ; school district Millage ; school districts 517 Teaching Requirements and College Certification They had to—to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days—or very few of ‘em—had college degrees. They didn’t—they didn’t go to college. So what they did, they—they sent the—the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. Discussion of early school teachers and their educational requirements college ; Frank Burgess ; Jeff Burgess ; Sapulpa ; superintendent ; teachers requirements ; school ; teachers 674 Oil Discovery and School Consolidation Let’s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days—you old timers know—that the oilfield workers worked right out in the—lived right out in the district. Discovery of oil results in population increase and school consolidiation Creek County ; Dan Baker ; Drumright ; Dry Hill ; Gypsy ; Lakeside ; Milfay ; oil ; oilfield ; oilfield camps ; Oilton ; Olive ; Slick ; Sunnyslope ; Tabor ; Welmont oil ; school 922 Ace Borger And there’s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace—now, the auditor, the guy he knew at—that audited schools—lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or ’15. The story of Ace Borger Ace Borger ; Borger Texas ; Dan Baker ; Pitcher Oklahoma ; Tom Slick Ace Borger ; Tom Slick 1043 High Schools, Boom Towns, and School Closings Here’s something that a lot of you didn’t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn’t get—well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having—organizing little high schools. Memories of high schools, boom towns, and school closing Happy Corner ; High school ; Iron Post ; Shamrock ; Valentine High School ; World War II school ; Shamrock 1196 Bristow Public Schools Let’s see. What else you might want to know about. I don’t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don’t—they’re not very good [inaudible], but it’s schools around Bristow that existed back in the ‘20s and ‘30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. The schools that comprised Bristow Public Schools Bolin ; Brick Central ; Bristow Public Schools ; Depew ; Fairview ; Fisher School ; Glendale ; Mills Chapel ; Mountain Home ; Oakgrove ; Red Bank ; Slick ; Tuskegee ; Union Hill Bristow Public Schools 1414 Division of Schools and Buses Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill—the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north—and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in ’54 or something like that, ’55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale—that’s my little school—as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. The division of schools and school buses Bellvue ; Bristow ; buses ; Central Oak Grove ; Depew ; Genelle ; Glendale ; Kellyville ; Newby School ; Pine Hill ; Victor Chapel ; Wyatt buses ; Schools 1599 People of Bristow I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I’ll show you some films on it. The first one I’m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]—his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. Memories of people in Bristow Alcorn ; Bernice ; Bristow ; Carl Sparks ; Dillard Baker ; Emmett Dykes ; Eva Sanders ; Iron Post ; Jack Dykes ; Jack Hancock ; James Lyons ; James Neighbors ; Mildred ; Mills Chapel ; R.C. Lester ; Raymond Cecil ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School Bristow 1826 Pine Hill One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named—there wasn’t—there wasn’t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. Discussion about Pine Hill School Bill Flood ; Bruce ; Buela Hope ; Carl Sparks ; Eva Smith ; Glendale ; Iron Post ; J.L. Darnell ; Lenora ; Louis Harding ; Mildred Henderson ; Mills Chapel School ; Oak Grove School ; Pine Hill ; Raymond Cecil ; Roy Bath ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School ; Wanda Henderson Pine Hill School 2302 Love Stories You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked—I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool—the only one I fooled was Lenora. J.L. tells stories of his teen years Brick Central ; Edith ; Eva Smith ; James King ; Juanita ; Lenora ; pie supper ; Thelma love stories 2718 Comments from the Crowd and Closing We’re proud you came here. It’s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your—I hope you—you’ve enjoyed it. I—if you didn’t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Comments from the crowd and closing with a prayer Charlie Womack ; Flora ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glendale ; Hard Shell Baptist ; Ledgerwood ; Marie Womack ; Mildred ; Morningstar ; Mountain Home ; Oak Grove ; Old Man Higgenbottom Darnell ; schools ; Womack WN: -ninety-six. I' ; m Wanda Newton. I' ; m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he' ; s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He' ; s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I--it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don' ; t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. You know, prior to 1907, the year that Oklahoma became a state, we had no public schools. The territorial government didn' ; t provide for it. If you had schools, it was a subscription school. And you--each parent had to pay to the--some teacher that wanted to, to teach the children so much a month. The only man that I know that went to subscription school was Raymond Freeland (ph). And--down in Tahlequah. Unidentified Man: You' ; ll be telling how old I am, now. JL: The first legislat--the, the--when Oklahoma became a state, they had--first they had to have a Constitutional Convention. And that Constitutional Convention mandated that every county in the state of Oklahoma had school districts. And the first legislature that they--was formed in 1908--drew up the plans. The super--the process of setting up the school districts was in the hands of the county superintendent. Now, I wasn' ; t county superintendent then. (laughing) But there was a fellow from Bristow that was the first county superintendent, and his name was P.T. Frye. I didn' ; t know him, but I knew his daughter in Sapulpa. She worked in the abstract office, and she' ; d come by to see me every once in a while. And when she was a little girl, she went with her daddy--the county superintendent--all over the county in a buggy! Because they didn' ; t have any roads to speak of. And nobody had a car--any cars in that day. So he' ; d--P.T. Frye began to work in 1908. And he had to make the nine-hundred-and-sixty or --seventy square miles of Creek County into school districts. And he and the second county--well he didn' ; t get it all done. But he and the second county superintendent--a fellow by the name of Jeff Burgess (ph)--finished the job. And they organized Creek County into seventy-nine school districts. Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they' ; d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or ' ; 15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Most of you don' ; t know much about a one-room school. And most of these little schools that first started were one-room schools. It was a frame building, usually about twenty by forty, or eighteen by thirty-five. They had no lights in the school whatsoever. There wasn' ; t even electricity out in the country. They--it was heated by a big stove in the middle or on the corner of the room with wood. It had a big hood around it so that the heat would circulate. The teacher had to get there real early and build a fire. The teacher was not only the teacher, but she was--she or he was the janitor. And the fireman, and everything. So it was quite a little task for the teacher. But everybody--we, we got enough teachers that we eventually filled up all the vacancies. They organized--you know how a board of education--as soon as the--as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected--they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn' ; t hold elections like we do today. They' ; d--they' ; d post five notices in the district that they' ; s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. And the people all gathered in, and if you wanted to run for board member, you had somebody nominate you. And then they' ; d nominate as many as they wanted, and they wrote their names on the blackboard and then give everybody a little slip of paper. And they selected the man that they wanted to be on the board. The one-room schools--the teacher--where the teacher' ; s desk was, was a little bit elevated so she could look over and see what the kids is doing because it was quite a job teaching fifteen or twenty or thirty kids, all eight grades. Not many of you experienced that. But maybe Dillard and me and some of you others did. All right, now. One of the things that they voted on--after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn' ; t--didn' ; t--they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that' ; d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn' ; t get but about $40 or $50 a month. And they also--when they organized the school districts, they used actual ground [indecipherable]. Creeks that flooded in the springtime--there' ; s no bridges over them. And the kids couldn' ; t get to school. The boundary between Bristow school district and my old school district out south of town was called Forty-Eight--old school district Forty-Eight--the boundary between us was Little Deep Fork. And the boundary between Genelle school south of--way in the south part of the county--and Mills Chapel--not Mills Chapel, but Iron Post--was Big Deep Fork. So when those things had--had a bearing on the size of the school district. They had to--to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days--or very few of ' ; em--had college degrees. They didn' ; t--they didn' ; t go to college. So what they did, they--they sent the--the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. And you didn' ; t--if you--the only qualifications were that you had to have finished the eighth grade. And--or high school. You went up to the county superintendent' ; s office and he conducted a class up there for six weeks and then he gave you an examination. And if you passed the examination, you were issued a one-year county certificate. If you done real good, they might give you a two-year county certificate. And then you could teach in the county for that length of time, but then you had to go back to school in the summer in the county superintendent' ; s office. Or you had to go to--by that time they had the teacher' ; s colleges. And of course then you had to go the teacher' ; s colleges in the summertime until you worked out so many hours. If you worked out sixty hours of college work, they gave you a life certificate, and you could teach school the rest of your life without going back to school. Now you can' ; t teach school unless you have four years of college. But back in the day--in those days, we had to make it easy. Now don' ; t think them little--them old schoolteachers were not good. The best schoolteacher I ever saw was an old man named Frank Burgess (ph). He taught school way up in the northern part of the county at McAboy (ph). He had about twenty of them old kids in there. He--he (laughs). He' ; d--he kinda had the school as a whole. He had--when he' ; d teach in sixth grade arithmetic, everybody learnt sixth grade arithmetic. And them third and fourth graders could do it! Raymond remembers old Frank Burgess (ph), Frank Burgess (ph). His brother was Jeff Burgess (ph), I mentioned him while ago--he was the early county superintendent. Let' ; s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days--you old timers know--that the oilfield workers worked right out in the--lived right out in the district. They, they established camps. Oilfield camps. And when that happened, the--the population increased and they had to expand these little one-room schools. And that also brought about a lot of consolidation. One of--all of you know where Gypsy school is. Well, Gypsy and--before 1920 or ' ; 21, there wasn' ; t a Gypsy school. There wasn' ; t a Milfay school. There--there wasn' ; t-- Unidentified Man: Olive. JD: Olive school. And several other places. There were no--there were no schools. But when they got the oil and the population increased, then that started what we call school consolidation. In Gypsy, they had two schools out there. One was called Lincoln, north of Gypsy. The other one was Lakeside, south of Gypsy. And they merged together in 1923 or ' ; 24, and formed Gypsy school district. And it became a high school. And the same thing happened at Raymond' ; s place. Raymond went to school--he lived at Milfay when he walked to school a mile or two to a place--to a little place called-- Unidentified Man: Sunnyslope. JD: Sunnyslope. And Sunnyslope and the other little school that-- Unidentified Man: Lily Day. JD: --next to Milfay joined together and formed Milfay, and then they became--it became a high school. Same thing happened in Olive. The same thing happened in Welmont (ph) when they discovered the No. 1 Wheeler oil well in 1912. Drumright was--had two--two or three little old grade schools around there. One was called Dry Hill, one was called Tiger, and the other one I--Lily. No, not Lily Day. I can' ; t remember the name of it. But when they discovered oil there, and the people just came in with the droves, and in just a little while, well, Drumright became a high school. And the same thing happened to Oilton. It was a little old school out south where Oilton is. It was called Crow. Had one teacher. And when they discovered oil in the--in the Oilton area, the population increased and so they just established a town called Oilton. And the teacher that taught at Crow went into Oilton as a first-grade teacher. I don' ; t remember her name, but she taught at Oilton, then, until she retired. And she was--she was the boss, you know, of the school because she was the oldest and (chuckles). After school, let' ; s see--I wanted to make time here. Oh, Slick! You know, when they discovered--before 1918 there wasn' ; t a Slick school. The school was called Tabor. It was a little two-teacher school two miles north. And the teacher at that time was a guy named Dan Baker. Dillard' ; s first cousin. And he and his wife were teaching there at Tabor, and they discovered the oilfield in [inaudible]. Ten thousand people moved into Slick inside of two or three to four years. And they had the--they built a school at Slick. And there' ; s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace--now, the auditor, the guy he knew at--that audited schools--lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or ' ; 15. And he had more money in that bank than any other bank because he let the outlaws put their money there and they didn' ; t--they didn' ; t have to account for it. Well, Ace Borger followed Tom Slick, and he organized the town of Slick. And helped them build the school, and everything. And then he got in trouble and they had a big lawsuit there and they run him off. And he went to Texas because they' ; d just discovered a lot of oil and gas out north of Amarillo. And he organized the town--I mean, yeah--the town of Borger, Texas. And took Dan Baker out there as his superintendent. And Borger--I mean, Borger becomes a big town almost immediately. Well, anyway, old Ace Borger had a lot of enemies, and the only way they could get rid of him was to get somebody to shoot him, and they shot him on the--they shot him and killed him on the steps of the post office. And that got rid of Ace Borger! (chuckles) Here' ; s something that a lot of you didn' ; t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn' ; t get--well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having--organizing little high schools. They had a little high school at Valentine. They had another one at Iron Post. They had another one out here at my old school district--Forty-Eight, at the end of the airport. They had one in McClintock, south of Happy Corner. But they didn' ; t last long. The state department made ' ; em close ' ; em down after two or three years. But they kept the grade school. Now, let' ; s see, what else have I got to talk to you about. I told you that they organized seventy-nine school districts. Back when they started consolidating, the number--it was easy to consolidate. Most people wanted to have their kids in the [inaudible] schools and [inaudible] by that time, they began to have school buses. And so that done away with a lot of little schools. And then during the World War II, a whole bunch of little schools went out because they couldn' ; t find teachers. So by 19--when I became county superintendent in 1951--got the notes, here, (papers rustling) if I can find it--by 1951, there were thirty-three school districts left in Creek County. It had reduced from seventy-nine down to thirty-three. There were fourteen high schools and nineteen grade schools. And when I retired in 1975, there were ten high schools and only six elementary schools. And since that time, one elementary school--Shamrock--has gone out. Shamrock, Slick, and all them little--they were boom towns. And they just grew and flourished during the oil business, but then they folded up as soon as the oil kind of depleted. Let' ; s see. What else you might want to know about. I don' ; t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don' ; t--they' ; re not very good [inaudible], but it' ; s schools around Bristow that existed back in the ' ; 20s and ' ; 30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. You all may not realize it, but Bristow is the largest school district in the county. They have--I' ; ve got it written down here somewhere (papers rustling). [Inaudible] be better organized. (chuckles) Bristow school district now is made up of the following schools--little rural schools: every part of Forty-Four--district Forty-Four. That was right out north of town--is now part of Bristow. Every part of that--that was down below Newby--became a part of Bristow. My old school--Oakgrove, Glendale, and Brick Central (ph)--most of it came to Bristow, but the west part of it went to Depew. Fisher School--where old John went to school--is now part Bristow. Of course, first it went into Slick, and then when Slick went out it came to Bristow. Fairview! Where old Dillard grew up. And I guess you went to school at Fairview. Fairview? Dillard Baker: Well, I was-- JD: Fairview was--Fairview was file miles south and two miles east and then about a mile south. Lovett! Which was about six miles west of Bristow and--east of Bristow. And I--I don' ; t--I' ; m not sure, but I think the most important man in Lovett school that lives in Bristow today is Dub Bolin! Is that right? (laughing) Another one was Edna. You know where Edna was--it' ; s now part of Bristow. Cloud just east of Slick is part of Bristow. Sand Creek eleven miles south and a mile east is, is all Bristow. Union Hill (ph), which was out near--out on the Red Bank (ph) road to the north. Mills Chapel became part of Bristow in ' ; 46 or ' ; 47. Mills Chapel was three miles south and two--two miles west. Group, simultaneously: East. East. JD: Two miles--yeah. East. Mountain Home, and [indecipherable], was back east of Bristow. Tuskegee, where the Krummes came from, is all Bristow now. And of course, as I said while ago, Slick. Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill--the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north--and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in ' ; 54 or something like that, ' ; 55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale--that' ; s my little school--as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. Wyatt--Wyatt was a little high school way back in the ' ; 20s, and they lost out on their high school, but they kept a grade school. And about ' ; 46 or ' ; 47, they got--' ; 49, it was--they got so low in attendance that they divided it up and part of it went to Slick, part of it went to Kellyville, and part of it went to Bristow. Victor Chapel--nine miles north and a mile or two west was divided between Bristow and Olive. Newby school--all of you knew where Newby school was. Newby went out about ' ; 60 or ' ; 61, and part of it--most of it went to Bristow, but a little bit of it went to Gypsy. Genelle--which was three miles east of Brist--west of Bristow on Cemetery Road and back north a mile and then back west a little bit further. It was divided between Depew and Bristow. Bellvue was northwest of Bristow, and it was split two ways. Part of it went to Olive and part of it went to Bristow. In other words, Bristow is all, or part, of twenty-some school districts. And I graduated from Bristow High School in 1931. And they had no buses whatsoever. The kids out in the rural school had to get there on their own. They--the parents usually rented a place in town and they lived in--in an apartment and went to school, and when school was out they went back to home. But I--I came back from New Mexico in 1935 and Bristow had a whole bunch of school buses. Now Bristow has fifteen or sixteen school buses because it' ; s got to go to all these areas where the--where the rural schools are. I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I' ; ll show you some films on it. The first one I' ; m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]--his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. And Raymond got into trouble with old Shamblin (ph), the teacher, and he didn' ; t like him. So his dad arranged for him to Bristow. And when Raymond got up here in Bristow, he fell in love with the prettiest little girl and she' ; s here--(laughing)--she' ; s here tonight [indecipherable]. Another school that I talked about while ago was Mills Chapel. And Dillard Baker is one of the important fellows that lived in Mills Chapel years and years ago. Another one was Dykes kids. All of you know Emmett Dykes and Jack Dykes and Mildred and Bernice. Bernice became a teacher and she was one of the finest. She taught many years at Iron Post. But then she met an old boy that swept her off of her feet and they went to California after he got out of the service. And both of ' ; em taught school out there. Let' ; s see--oh, there was--there was another pretty little girl out at--at Mills Chapel. And when she got in high school she came to Bristow, and there was an old city slicker here in Bristow named James Lyons, and he just swept her off of her feet, and they married right--just before the war. (laughing) Unidentified man: She got that backwards. (laughing) JD: All of you know the Alcorns from Slick. They had a whole bunch of big old strong girls, and they had such a good girls' ; team that they won every softball game they ever played. They even beat the boys down in Slick! You all know the Alcorns. Let' ; s see another one here. Mountain Home out on the high--the Slick Road--I mean on the Eighth Street Road--they had a real fine school out there and the only boy that I remember that' ; s here now was James Neighbors (ph). When he graduated the eighth grade he came here. Valentine--pretty little girl, what' ; s her name? Eva Sanders. And old Jack Hancock pursued her and finally made her his wife. Shady Glen--which was, what? Six miles south of Depew and a mile west and then three more miles south, down on Big Deep Fork, was where Carl Sparks grew up. Now, I don' ; t know where Carl found his sweetheart. (laughs) But he found himself one. I talked--I mentioned Victor Chapel School. Nine miles north on Highway 48 and then a mile and a half east--west. It was a real [indecipherable] school, and that' ; s where the Lesters--R.C. Lester--he went. And her--[indecipherable]. They went to grade school and when they got through they came to Bristow High School. One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named--there wasn' ; t--there wasn' ; t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. And it was named after him. And there' ; s a whole bunch of people out there named Bruce. And they all went to school at Pine Hill--even there, my sister-in-law went to school at Pine Hill. But the most important person in Pine Hill graduated out there in 1940--no, in ' ; 37. And she lived--she had to walk a mile to catch the bus up through the woods. And she--for four years she walked up there and caught the bus, rain and shine, and she' ; s right [inaudible--poor tape quality]. [Inaduible--poor tape quality] I' ; m running out of time here, I don' ; t want to [inaudible]. I know you want to see some of these pictures. So at this time I' ; m gonna try to put ' ; em through this machine and [inaudible--poor tape quality]. I' ; ll talk a little bit as they come right through. Flip the light off, preacher. That' ; s--that' ; s the front--that' ; s the front door of Genelle school. Raymond Cecil [indecipherable]--I' ; ll pass them around if you want to look at ' ; em. Let' ; s see here. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: That' ; s--that' ; s Mills Chapel School. And the teacherage. That' ; s the biggest picture we could find--Majel had that and gave it to us so we could show it to you. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: [inaudible] That' ; s-- Unidentified Man: Iron Post! JD: Victor Chapel School. Off to the left--in the middle row, you can' ; t see it very good. Right behind is--is Lenora. She went there one year. Now you all--you probably know the teacher. Her name was Buela Hope. And she married a guy named--out in there named Earl--I mean, Roy Bath. And they were the ones that were murdered about 1974 or ' ; 75. They never found who--who murdered them. Now that' ; s a picture of Louis Harding' ; s school. You can' ; t tell, but he' ; s right down there on the front row. And that' ; s Iron Post. And Louis thought it was about 1930 or ' ; 35, I don' ; t know. But--but anyway, that' ; s--that' ; s Iron Post. Now there' ; s a picture where Lenora and me went to school. That' ; s Pine Hill. And there' ; s a bunch of kids out in the yard, but I--it' ; s not plain enough that you can see who they are. Pine Hill. Now, let' ; s see. Now that' ; s--that' ; s where Carl Sparks came from. Shady Glen. The one farthest south, just north of Big Deep Fork and south of Salt Creek. And I--Carl' ; s in there somewhere but I don' ; t--I couldn' ; t--I couldn' ; t recognize him. But I appreciate you bringing the picture, Carl, so we could see it. Shady Glen became part of Gypsy, and then later they--it became part of Milfay. They switched around. Now, that' ; s old Glendale school. File miles west and a mile south on the Gypsy Road. And that little bitty guy in the middle on the front row happens to be old J.L. Darnell. (laughing) And right behind him is his first sweetheart--Eva Smith. And you probably wouldn' ; t--my brother' ; s over on the left side and you wouldn' ; t recognize him. But Glendale was a nice school and it became--it really grew during the--during the oil boom. Now that--that' ; s Oak Grove School in 1939. That was the second year I taught. That' ; s me on the left there, and that' ; s all my kids. In that is a little girl named Wanda Henderson. I had her in the third through the seventh grade. But one--but--Glen--I mean, Oak Grove School was a very good school through the years. Lyman Hutchins--Raymond' ; s dad--went there, and Lyman--Raymond told me that he--his dad got seven whippings in one day. The most important person, though, in old--old Glend--old Oak Grove School was a gal that Bill Flood really fell for. And she' ; s here tonight, and Bill is proud of her, I' ; m sure, and she' ; s proud of Bill. Her name was Mildred Henderson. So that' ; s Bill' ; s--that' ; s Bill' ; s sweetheart. I think that' ; s about all the pictures we have. Turn the--turn the light on, now. (rustling) Unidentified woman: Did you want to show this one right here? JD: [Inaudible in background.] You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked--I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool--the only one I fooled was Lenora. But when I went to school at Glendale--started there in 1919. My classmate was Eva Smith. And I drew her name at Christmas. You know, we drew names and exchanged gifts. And I drew Eva' ; s name and I had to buy her something. Well, my mother helped me out. In those days, you bought flour in a twenty-five-, fifty-pound sack. And it had a design on it. Well, this one had a design of a, of a--of a little old red--I mean, red dots. And my mother cut that out, 1919--Christmas of 1919, and stuffed it, and I put it on the tree for Eva Smith. And she was just tickled to death. Now, how did I get it back? Well, Eva in the mean time went to Sapulpa, and she became principal of a big school out there, even though she had taught a lot in just little country schools. And one day she called Lenora and said, Lenora--this is forty years later--she called Lenora and said, Lenora, you and J.L. and your oldest daughter--I don' ; t know whether Marie--might not have been born, I guess she was. But said, Come over, I want to give Ed--Edith something. And we went over there and Edna said, I want to give this to your oldest daughter. So I' ; m gonna pass it around, you might want to look at it. (laughs) Two other loves stories. We left old Glendale in 1923 and went to California and stayed a little while and came back and I made the fourth and part of the fifth grade in Bristow. And then in January of 1925, we moved back to Glendale. I was only twelve years old, and I was in the fifth grade, but there was the cutest little old girl that had moved in. Her daddy was an oilfield worker. And she had little pretty blonde hair, pretty little old doll face, and freckles. And we became sweethearts. We played together at recess--Black Man (ph). Well one--she lived west of school and I lived east of school. And so one afternoon, after four o' ; clock, she started going our way when she should' ; ve gone the other way. And I said--her name was Juanita. And I said, Juanita, what are you doing going this way? She said, I want to go home and stay all night with ya. (laughing) (crowd laughing) Well, that took me--I didn' ; t know what to say to her! It was just three of us old boys, my dad and mother, we just had two bedrooms. Me and my three brothers all slept togeth--I said, What in the world would we do with her? And I begin to try to figure out some way to get her to change her mind. I said, Juanita, does your dad and mother know that you' ; re gonna go home and stay all night with me? She said, Nooo, I didn' ; t tell ' ; em! And I said, Well, you better go home and get permission first! (laughing) Well, she went home and--and--I--she never did come back and stay all night with me. (laughing) One more love story and then we' ; ll be gone. I--I went to New Mexico in 1929. And stayed out there for two or three years. I came back to Bristow to finish high school. Well, one--either in ' ; 29 or ' ; 30, I went back out to old Brick Central (ph)--you know, we had a pie supper every year. And I went into this--to see my old friend. And boy, there was the prettiest little girl there. She was about fourteen--I was fifteen or sixteen. And she was fourteen. Well, I' ; d known her when she was a little bitty old thing, three or four years before. But boy, she sure looked good to me that night! She had filled out. So I got to--in those days, if you bought their pie, you got to walk ' ; em home. So I said, Well, I' ; m gonna see to it that I get to walk her home. So I--her name was Thelma. I said, Thelma, did you bring a box, or a pie? And she said, Yeah. And she said, Now if you' ; ll watch me, I' ; ll tell you when the auctioneer brings it up. Well, she nodded--she gave me the nod, and I bought it. And I gave seventy-five cents for it--which was quite a bit of money, you known, down in the Depression. Boy, I said, I' ; ve got it all made now, I get to eat and then I' ; m' ; a get to walk her home, and put my arm around her, to hold her hand. But I found out before the thing was over that she had another admirer there in school. And his name was James King. And he came to me, and he said, James--J.L., did you buy Thelma' ; s pie? And I said, Yeah. He said, I' ; ll give you your money back. I said, Nooo----I don' ; t want that money back. He said, I' ; ll give you a dollar! Nooo. Finally, he said, I' ; ll give you a dollar and a half, and boy, listen--that got me. I--(laughs) I--he gave me a dollar and a half and I gave him the ticket. And at the end of the pie supper, he went up and got her pie--got her box, and brought it back to where she was, and she got so mad, she wouldn' ; t eat with him! And she wouldn' ; t speak to me! And I didn' ; t get to walk her home. So--so I found out that--that romance and profit-making don' ; t always go together. (laughs) We' ; re proud you came here. It' ; s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your--I hope you--you' ; ve enjoyed it. I--if you didn' ; t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Unidentified woman: It was very good. Unidentified man: I had a comment about that pie supper-- (applause) Unidentified man: --about that pie supper-- JD: It' ; s--it' ; s early--I mean late. And I might just say this: one of the--one of the results of mine and Lenora' ; s getting married is that little girl that' ; s sitting way back there on the--black-headed, and that' ; s her husband there, Charlie, Charlie Womack. Unidentified woman: [Inaudible] JD: If there' ; s no other comments-- Unidentified man: J.L.-- JD: Raymond--I mean-- Unidentified man: That pie supper is where I met this gal. JD: Well! (laughs) Unidentified man: I bought her pie and she introduced me to her fiancé. JD: Ohh! (laughs) Unidentified man: And he--and I think he' ; s that same old guy that advertised for Braum' ; s, you know--Vic (ph), or whatever his name was. What was his name? JD: (laughs) Unidentified man: Anyhow, I--I' ; ve been eating her sandwiches ever since. And one school we forgot to mention, he did that' ; s--back in eastern Oklahoma, if you came from that part of the country, they always kidded you if you came from Scratchout--was the name of the school! We got a gal in here from Scratchout. I' ; m not gonna tell you who she is, but--she can talk Indian if you want to talk to her. John' ; s wife. JD: Let me make one other observation, here, before you leave. After all, we ought to be--this is a church, and we should be--what I should be--is sayin' ; something that would build up the churches. In my old school, Glendale, and Mildred' ; s and Flora' ; s old school, Oak Grove, they are the forerunners of the Free--of the Freewill Baptist Church. Way back in 1921 or ' ; 22 we had a preacher who lived across the road named Sam Wall. And he--he had church every day at Glendale. And the song leader was Old Man Higgenbottom. H.A. Had one eye, if you remember. And he was a good one. And they had church there. And they were Freewill Baptists--only I think they called them Hard Shell (ph) Baptist back in those days. Now in--in Glendale--I mean in Oak Grove, we had another Baptist preacher. His name was Ledgerwood. And he was--he and old Sam Wall were the forerunners of the Freewill Baptist. Later they moved to Bristow and you know where the Freewill--that' ; s where they are, and here' ; s where all of ' ; em go to school. Any other comments before you go home? Jack! Unidentified man: J.L., did you say anything about Model on 16? You ever go down there? JD: Yeah. Unidentified man: East about three miles, wasn' ; t it, then north about a quarter of a mile? JD: Yeah. Well, Model-- Unidentified man: Mountain. JD: Mountain Home--Mountain Home and Model were in the same school district. When they got a lot of oil out there, they didn' ; t--they couldn' ; t--they didn' ; t have enough. And that' ; s where you met your wife, wasn' ; t it? Unidentified woman: [Inaudible.] Unidentified man: I don' ; t know if you remember or not, but we had quite a few black schools. Iron Post was on one corner, and a mile west was another school--Morningstar or something like that was the name of it--and by gosh, they had twice as many kids over in that black school as we did [indecipherable]. And--but anyway, I remember bunch of little schools that some of us have forgotten about. Seven miles south at the Iron Post sign, right there on the corner you' ; ll see--still see the water well that' ; s the old-- JD: Maybe the next time I get to talk, maybe I' ; ll talk to you about the colored schools. Well I had the one that was the awfulest one. We done away with it! You might not want to hear about that. (laughing) (crowd discussion) JD: If there' ; s no other comments, let' ; s stand up and [inaudible]. Unidentified man: Let us pray. Lord, dismiss us with your blessing that we may go forth and do your work. Be with each one here and their families and bless them in their lives to serve thee. In Christ our Lord. Crowd: Amen. [end of recording] 1 audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml
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Debbie Blansett
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Joseph Alfred "Joe" Ihle
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5.4 OHP2-0003 Joseph Alfred " ; Joe" ; Ihle OHP2-0003 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. History in Bristow Bristow Pecan Hospital Joseph Alfred " ; Joe" ; Ihle Debbie Blansett MP3 MP3 1:|22(2)|61(7)|88(2)|106(4)|130(3)|153(7)|201(3)|234(5)|273(8)|291(3)|306(4)|326(4)|346(6)|361(6)|383(1)|407(4)|419(10)|437(3)|455(4)|469(2)|505(2)|529(4)|544(1)|583(6)|593(2)|603(12)|635(2)|644(8)|662(11)|677(9)|694(9)|717(3)|728(10)|736(8)|749(2)|760(11)|770(1)|778(4)|789(8)|819(2)|840(5)|864(2)|877(12)|894(12)|913(4)|926(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Joe Ihle.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is July 8, 2020, and I am sitting here with Joe Ihle in his home in Bristow, Oklahoma, who is going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Okay! Let’s begin. What was your name when you were born? JI: What was my name? DB: Mmm-hmm [affirming]. Introduction and family history Bristow ; Iva Mae ; Joe Ihle ; Joseph Alfred Ihle ; lumber yard ; Margarie ; Marine Corps ; oil boom ; Quantico ; rigs Joe Ihle 205 Childhood, Schools, Teachers, and Fun DB: Two boys and two girls. Okay. Now. Early childhood: what do you remember about growing up? In Bristow? JI: Bristow was really a great place to grow up for kids. You didn’t have the problems then with drugs and so on and so forth that you have now. We had a great swimming pool, we had a good school system—really good school system. Good athletic programs. And it was just a—just a good place to grow up. DB: In school, how—I’ve seen pictures of old yearbooks. Did—and it looks like people dressed differently when you would’ve been in school. So, can you tell a little bit about—I mean, you dressed up to go to school, right? Memories of Bristow school, teachers, and activities basketball ; Bristow ; football ; Joe Jackson ; Junior College ; Washington School Bristow ; schools ; teachers 451 College, coaches, and sports DB: Wow! And you went—did you go to college? JI: I went to junior college for a year, and then went down to OU . DB: Boomer Sooner! JI: Yep, Boomer Sooner. I had uncles that played down there, that I’d been down there a lot of times to college football games, and— DB: Who was the coach then? JI: At Bristow? Discussion of college and college athletics Mose LeForce ; Snorter Luster ; University of Oklahoma ; weight program college ; football ; University of Oklahoma 542 Childhood home, summer times, and the pool DB: It’s a completely different way of thinking now. When you were growing up, did you live in town or did you live in the country? JI: Lived in town. DB: In town? Is your house still here? JI: Yes. DB: It’s still here! Your childhood home. And what do you remember playing with when you were little? Like, did you have a favorite toys, or— JI: Oh, gosh! We had a great neighborhood—Sherman Smith, Bill Ross, Buddy Brown, Quince Brown, Johnny Raney, it was a great neighborhood— Memories of childhood friends, swimming, and the amphitheater amphitheater ; Bill Ross ; boxing ; Buddy Brown ; childhood home ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Johnny Raney ; Quince Brown ; Sherman Smith ; softball ; wrestling amphitheater ; Bristow ; Eleanor Roosevelt 844 Career, Pecans, and Raw Fur DB: Tore it down. So—and I know you’ve had lots of jobs. JI: I’m sorry? DB: You’ve—you’ve had a lot of work yourself, you’ve done a lot of different things. JI: Yes. DB: Through your life, what were some of those things? JI: Well, outside of what I did growing up, you know, after I got out of the Marine Corps we went—we put in a—Pete Folk (ph) and Dick Vining (ph) and myself put in a pecan processing plant. Which was a—wasn’t the smartest thing we ever did. Discussion of career after the Marine Corps Clyde LeForce ; Creek Mill ; Dick Vining ; Grain elevator ; harvester ; Marine Corps ; pecan ; Pecan & ; Ag ; pecan processing ; Pete Folk ; raw fur ; tree shaker agriculture ; Pecan & ; Ag 1190 Elementary School and Activities DB: Let’s see, we covered school. Were you a member of any club or organization in school? JI: In school? I don’t—DeMolay. DB: Do what? JI: DeMolay. DB: I don’t know what that is. JI: It’s a youth organization of the Masons. DB: Oh! JI: And the DeMolay was for boys and Rainbow for the girls. And— Discussion of school activities and walking to school DeMolay ; Masons ; Rainbow ; Washington School Masons ; Washington School 1315 80s Fashion DB: --You just, yeah, it’s just different. Okay, let’s see—what—we could’ve talked a little bit about how people dressed. Pretty much—we talked about how people dressed. Pretty casual. JI: That was pretty casual. There wasn’t— DB: I remember when I moved here in ’81, like, the women wore dresses to work, there were—we didn’t wear slacks, but some in other places there were, so I guess maybe that was a little different. JI: Oh, you know, for many years there weren’t any shorts. You know, today, shorts is the dress of everybody, just about, during the summertime. DB: Absolutely. Short discussion on 80s fashion 80s fashion ; shorts ; slacks 80s fashion 1403 Church and Modes of Transporation DB: Well now, I know you go to the Methodist Church. Did you always go to the Methodist Church? JI: Yes. My mother was very, very devout Christian and we were in church twice on Sunday and once during the week. Every Sunday school—I mean the whole— DB: Every—when the door was open, you were there. JI: And—yeah, and there was no picture shows on Sunday or anything like that until finally it got, the pressure got—she backed off of that. (laughs) Discussion of church and modes of transporation Marine Corps ; Methodist Church ; plane ; train church ; travel 1601 Military, Segregation, and Integration DB: (laughs) Didn’t have a choice. And you were in—so you were about eighteen or nineteen when you enlisted? You were in college? JI: I was probably nineteen. DB: About nineteen. And— JI: It was the thing to do. There was none of this—I’d say ninety-nine percent of the guys would’ve been heartbroken if they couldn’t get in, and they couldn’t serve. There might’ve been one percent that—or less that they did not want to. And then those that were physically unfit that couldn’t serve because of their physical conditions, they were really heartbroken. I mean it was a, it was a completely different thing and it was a—the war was a—just everybody was involved. Everybody was—the people at home suffered greatly. They—it was—everybody participated. Discussion on enlisting into the military and memories of segregation and integration enlisted ; integration ; segregation ; Teen Town ; war ; World War II integration ; Marine Corps ; segregation ; World War II 1873 Oil Boom DB: Let’s see. Any oil drilling in your family? An oil people in your family? JI: Oil? Oh, my dad was involved with all of the rig building back there-- DB: Oh, yeah. JI: --during the boom. That’s when your derricks were all built—they had a rig, you know, timber and they’d—on their drilling sites, and, yeah. And he was involved with that but never got involved in owning any oil, or— Short discussion on the oil boom derricks ; lumber yard ; oil drilling Oil 1919 Bristow Hospital JI: I’d like to talk to you about the hospital. DB: Oh, I’d love to hear about the hospital. JI: We had a clinic in Bristow. Dr. Cowart and Dr. Sisler kept this clinic going. It was two story, their offices were downstairs and upstairs there was a half a dozen beds, upstairs. And they served Bristow. If—if you had a child born downstairs, then you had to get people to help carry mama and the baby upstairs. And there’s no elevators. I mean, it was up a narrow stairway. All of my children were born there, in fact. Discussion on the history of the Bristow Hospital Don Lewis ; Dr. Cowart ; Dr. Sisler ; Henry Lamb ; Hill-Burton Act ; hospital ; Johnny Horany ; Lawrence Jones ; memorial ; Mike Jones ; Roland Hotel ; Veterans of Foreign Wars ; VFW ; World War II Hill-Burton Act ; hospital ; VFW ; World War II 2496 Restaurants in Bristow and Closing JI: Oh, no, that—you know, in the period that I was growing up, there was Highway 66, and it carried a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. And we had three eating establishments here. The Anchor was built out on Highway 66 in my time. The Hamburger King is where the restaurant is there on South Main. DB: Beach House. JI: And then, on up towards Fifth Street was the J& ; J Café. And the J& ; J Café—the people traveling from—between the cities always made a stop in Bristow for lunch or something like that—it was very— DB: About halfway. Discussion of the restaurants in Bristow and closing comments Anchor ; Beach House ; Hamburger King ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jack Abraham ; Jack and Joe Lee ; Route 66 Anchor ; Hamburger King ; Route 66 DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is July 8, 2020, and I am sitting here with Joe Ihle in his home in Bristow, Oklahoma, who is going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Okay! Let' ; s begin. What was your name when you were born? JI: What was my name? DB: Mmm-hmm [affirming]. JI: Joe Ihle! (laughing) DB: No, middle name--just Joe Ihle? JI: Alfred is my middle name. DB: Joe, not Joseph? JI: Yeah, Joseph. DB: Joseph Alfred Ihle. JI: Yes. DB: And when were you born? JI: August 7, 1922. DB: Were you--and you were born in Bristow? JI: Yes. DB: Were you born at home? JI: In a home, yes. DB: In your home. Your parents' ; names? JI: My parent--my dad' ; s name was Joseph Alfred, and my mother' ; s name was Iva Mae (ph). DB: Iva Mae (ph). Do you remember when they were married? JI: No. DB: No. And-- JI: I wasn' ; t here yet. DB: (laughing) Good answer. How--you are out of how many children? How many brothers and sisters did you have? JI: I had one brother and one sister. DB: One brother and one sister. Do you remember what your father did for a living? JI: He was a manager of the lumber yard here in Bristow. DB: Manager of the lumber yard. JI: It was during the oil boom, and he furnished the timber to build these rigs over this whole area--had a yard in Bristow and another one in Depew. DB: And your mother, did she work outside the home? JI: No. She had, oh--she was the-- DB: Homemaker. JI: Not until my dad died, she never had worked outside the home. DB: What was the, her--the favorite thing she used to make for you? What was her fav--your favorite thing? JI: Oh, gosh, I--she was a, she was an excellent cook and everything she made was good, I-- DB: Everything she made was good. Okay, and you were married. JI: Yes. DB: And your wife' ; s name? JI: Was Margarie. DB: Margarie. And do you remember your anniversary? JI: No, that' ; s--we got married while I was in the officer school at Quantico, Virginia, in the Marine Corps. And we later--she' ; s the mother of my children, but we later got divorced. And I don' ; t know, I-- DB: Okay. JI: I--don' ; t ask many dates. I don' ; t remember any dates. DB: Okay, that' ; s--that' ; s alright. And you had how many children? JI: I had four children. Two boys and two girls. DB: Two boys and two girls. Okay. Now. Early childhood: what do you remember about growing up? In Bristow? JI: Bristow was really a great place to grow up for kids. You didn' ; t have the problems then with drugs and so on and so forth that you have now. We had a great swimming pool, we had a good school system--really good school system. Good athletic programs. And it was just a--just a good place to grow up. DB: In school, how--I' ; ve seen pictures of old yearbooks. Did--and it looks like people dressed differently when you would' ; ve been in school. So, can you tell a little bit about--I mean, you dressed up to go to school, right? JI: Oh, no, not really dressed up, no. DB: Oh, no? JI: No, no. DB: Not like slacks and shirts? Jeans? You wore jeans? JI: Well, I don' ; t remember wearing jeans as much but there was no uniforms. I don' ; t think jeans were--when I was a boy, was--it isn' ; t nothing like it is today, and the--everything was pretty casual. DB: What did you like about school? JI: That school? DB: Mmm-hmm (affirming). JI: The kids. DB: The kids? What were your favorite subjects? JI: Probably recess. DB: (laughing) JI: I didn' ; t--I was not a good sch--student. But I never did have any problems getting through, but I just didn' ; t--I didn' ; t apply myself. DB: You have a favorite teacher? JI: Well, my favorite teacher would' ; ve been out of high school, his name was Joe Jackson. DB: Joe Jackson. JI: Taught government. And then we had a lot of really good teachers that were really--I mean really sharp teachers. It was a good, good group of them. DB: Good group. High school--where was the high school? JI: Well the high school was there on Ninth and Elm, where they tore that building down three or four years ago--that was the high school. DB: That' ; s where you went to high school? JI: Junior high was just over on Tenth Street, right behind it. And the grade school was just where the grade school is now. DB: But it was a smaller school? JI: Oh, yeah. They would-- DB: Was Washington on the other side--was Washing-- JI: Yes, Washington School was over there, they tore that building down a couple years ago. DB: But was it Washington, or was it the junior college? JI: It was, no--Washington. Junior college was in the high school building-- DB: Ohh. JI: --on the top floor. DB: On the top floor. JI: And--the--most of the teachers taught both junior college and high school. DB: Oh! JI: And the only athletic program we had in junior college was the basketball program. DB: Now, did you play basketball? JI: Yes. DB: What position? JI: I was forward. DB: Forward. JI: To guard-- DB: Whatever they told you to do? JI: Ma' ; am? DB: That' ; s what--whatever they said to do, that' ; s what you played? JI: Well, wherever they didn' ; t--(chuckles)-- DB: Needed you? JI: --needed a poor athlete. (chuckles) DB: Now, and you played football? JI: I, I played at it, yes. DB: You played at it? JI: Yeah. I was very, very small. When I graduated my senior year, I weighed 110 pounds. DB: Oh, my. JI: And was the slowest down the whole thing. So, I--my athletic career wasn' ; t stellar. DB: One hundred and ten pounds! JI: When I was a senior. DB: Wow! And you went--did you go to college? JI: I went to junior college for a year, and then went down to OU. DB: Boomer Sooner! JI: Yep, Boomer Sooner. I had uncles that played down there, that I' ; d been down there a lot of times to college football games, and-- DB: Who was the coach then? JI: At Bristow? DB: No, at OU. JI: Snorter Luster was the coach-- DB: When you went there, when you visited? JI: He was the head, let' ; s see, to start with, and then--I think most of the time I was there. DB: Okay. Who were the coaches that you remember at Bristow? JI: Oh, Mose LeForce. He was the--he coached-- DB: Football? JI: Football, basketball, track, everything. DB: Everything. JI: I mean, it was so different and-- DB: And he was a pretty great guy? JI: Hmm? DB: He was a pretty great guy? JI: Yeah, he was. He was a very, very good coach and--didn' ; t have near the facilities that you have today. Growing up, they thought that a weight program made your muscle bad, and no schools had a weight program, and-- DB: Oh, wow. JI: And-- DB: It' ; s a completely different way of thinking now. When you were growing up, did you live in town or did you live in the country? JI: Lived in town. DB: In town? Is your house still here? JI: Yes. DB: It' ; s still here! Your childhood home. And what do you remember playing with when you were little? Like, did you have a favorite toys, or-- JI: Oh, gosh! We had a great neighborhood--Sherman Smith, Bill Ross, Buddy Brown, Quince Brown, Johnny Raney, it was a great neighborhood-- DB: That was your gang? JI: --and we used to--things was so different that--in the summertime we' ; d just gather the guys together and have--play baseball. Of course during the sch--during the year, we were active at school so we didn' ; t, but--it was a, it was a fun period. DB: No shenanigans? JI: No. As we got older, the swimming pool opened of a morning and stayed open until about--I think was even nine or ten o' ; clock at night. Opened at nine in the morn. And we swam three times a day. We' ; d go out there, and we' ; d come home to eat lunch, and go back out and--Bristow had, I guess, the best group of really strong swimmers anyplace, ' ; cause the--the pool at that time held a million gallons of water-- DB: Oh, wow. JI: And it--the archives' ; d show you, but they--it was built by an Indian. I can' ; t remember his name. And he finally, he gave it to the city and it was just a super place, it-- DB: And they' ; ve--it' ; s still a nice place, but it was a lot bigger then. JI: Oh, it was bigger and a lot more activity. I mean, it, it--there was some of us kind of cent--growin' ; up kind of centered around there. DB: Any other, well--were there any other active spots beside the swimming pool? JI: No, that was the main-- DB: In the summertime. Parks? We still had parks? JI: Yeah, the--had the same parks. DB: The amphitheater, was it there yet? JI: Yes, the amphitheater was there. You know, Eleanor Roosevelt spoke at that amphitheater one time. And there was a colosseum there, a big three story red brick building that is where the parking lot is now. And it served a lot of things over the years. They had a lot of government offices in there, and they had a basketball court. DB: Oh, my gosh. JI: I--I had remembered seeing my mother play in softball--indoor softball in that building. And my dad' ; d taken me to wrestling matches and boxing matches out there. DB: I had no idea there was a--an arena inside there. JI: There was a basketball court. And over the years it got so run down everybody moved out and as we were rebuilding the park, we took the building down. DB: You were part of the park committee? JI: Yes. DB: You were part of the--at one time, when that happened? When I came here in 1981, that building was still there. So I remember that building. JI: Yeah, there was a lot of controversy to taking it down. DB: It had been there a while. JI: Hmm? DB: That happens when a building has been someplace for a long time, always controversy. JI: Well, it--there was a lot of controversy about it, and there was nothing--it was, it was inhabit--I mean, uninhabitable. It was a risk being in it, and--but they liked it because of how old it was and, and that' ; s right--I liked that, but it was an eyesore outside of that, and we finally gave them, I think, six months to come up with a solution for the building, and they even brought a guy in from Washington as far as the historical--and they couldn' ; t do anything with it at the end of the six months. We went ahead and took it down. DB: Tore it down. So--and I know you' ; ve had lots of jobs. JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: You' ; ve--you' ; ve had a lot of work yourself, you' ; ve done a lot of different things. JI: Yes. DB: Through your life, what were some of those things? JI: Well, outside of what I did growing up, you know, after I got out of the Marine Corps we went--we put in a--Pete Folk (ph) and Dick Vining (ph) and myself put in a pecan processing plant. Which was a--wasn' ; t the smartest thing we ever did. DB: (chuckling) JI: We didn' ; t even come close to having the capital to do it, you couldn' ; t possibly do it today with what we had. I mean, they' ; d laugh you out of the building. And we got that in, and it--then a little later, Clyde LeForce, who was playing professional football at the time, bought in with us and we brought the Creek--bought the Creek old-- DB: Mill? JI: Mill. Grain elevator. And which--put us in more jeopardy. DB: (chuckles) JI: And-- DB: You didn' ; t have enough already! JI: Hmm? DB: You didn' ; t have enough already-- JI: Yeah. DB: --you had to get into something else. JI: And we--when we got the mill, we went into the raw fur business, buying raw fur during trapping season. Mink, muskrat, ' ; coon, opossum, skunk--all of, all of the furs in Oklahoma. Which is a real growing concern at--I mean, it--there' ; s--there' ; s a lot of trappers that that was their livelihood during the winter. And we got into that and grew that, we were the largest fur buyers in the state. And that was a very interesting business. But as time has gone by, there' ; s, there' ; s not hardly any market for your-- DB: Hmm-mm (agreeing no). JI: At one time a good mink, buck mink, would bring forty-five to fifty dollars. And there' ; s just--times were a lot different, lot harder then and there' ; s a lot of people that trapped for a living, so--but now there' ; s no demand for that. Which really shows up in the country, now--we' ; ve got ' ; coons and opossum and the skunk and they just overrun you and are a problem, but they will be forever. DB: Forever. JI: Unless their fur got to be worth something. DB: So, a lot of your work was agricultural? JI: Yes. I got really interested at--through the pecan business. I was doing business with growers around the state. And I got really interested, and I love the outdoors. So I found this land in the southeast corner of the county that' ; d been a--for sale for years and years and years. And nobody was interested in it, it was basically a jungle. And that changed my life. I started with clearing the land and did most of it by hand. And I started establishing a pecan operation down there, growing pecans. DB: Oh. I didn' ; t know that! JI: I still, I still have that land. And-- DB: A few trees left? JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: A few trees left? JI: Oh, we--we cleared out all of the native timber, and even the pecans, and then as time went by, well we thinned those pecan trees out, and then we' ; ve planted a whole lot of trees since. DB: So you still--that' ; s still an operation? JI: Oh, yeah, that' ; s--that' ; s my--everything I do now is tied to that. I' ; ve sold everything else. I started an equipment company back there. We got where we could produce pecans, but you just--the hand labor was gone. You couldn' ; t really--so I was the--there was different companies trying to develop or manufacture a--a pecan harvester. And these are very difficult conditions that you do that in. Nothing' ; s been successful but one--I was the contact person in Oklahoma for this company and one year they came through and they had a machine that would work. I mean that--we tried it and it would work. So I set up an equipment company. I got a franchise on that harvester. And then we' ; d look for tree shakers and sprayers and chemicals and all that, and I developed that into a--we covered all of Oklahoma and parts of Kansas, Missouri, and Texas. And that was a--my son has a cut in that, he bought that, and--my son Bill--he' ; s developed it a long ways past where I was, so he-- DB: And that' ; s Pecan & ; Ag? JI: Yes. DB: Let' ; s see, we covered school. Were you a member of any club or organization in school? JI: In school? I don' ; t--DeMolay. DB: Do what? JI: DeMolay. DB: I don' ; t know what that is. JI: It' ; s a youth organization of the Masons. DB: Oh! JI: And the DeMolay was for boys and Rainbow for the girls. And-- DB: So are you still a Mason? JI: No, I never did become a Mason. DB: You never did become-- JI: But my dad had been at the highest--as far as you can go in that. But-- DB: My dad was-- JI: Forty-second degree, I believe it was. DB: My dad only got to, like, thirty-something degree. But--did you pack your lunch when you went to elementary school? JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: Did you pack your lunch when you went to elementary school? JI: No. I lived within four blocks of the school and I walked home for lunch, and--this business of buses and people riding and having cars and stuff--(chuckles) DB: It wasn' ; t like that. JI: There is more kids that' ; s got cars driving to school now in the high school than there was when I was at OU. You had to have a permit to park down there and there' ; s more cars here than there was down there during the school year. DB: Wow. JI: I mean, it' ; s just so different. So different. DB: But ya' ; ll had a car--your parents had a car. JI: Oh, yeah. But kids walked from Washington School to over here--I mean didn' ; t nobody thought anything about it. You just went in time, and-- DB: You just went. JI: It' ; s just different, I mean you just didn' ; t think about it-- DB: --You just, yeah, it' ; s just different. Okay, let' ; s see--what--we could' ; ve talked a little bit about how people dressed. Pretty much--we talked about how people dressed. Pretty casual. JI: That was pretty casual. There wasn' ; t-- DB: I remember when I moved here in ' ; 81, like, the women wore dresses to work, there were--we didn' ; t wear slacks, but some in other places there were, so I guess maybe that was a little different. JI: Oh, you know, for many years there weren' ; t any shorts. You know, today, shorts is the dress of everybody, just about, during the summertime. DB: Absolutely. JI: And some people, because of their business, don' ; t wear shorts, but they do as soon as they get off. I mean, it' ; s just a--and they just weren' ; t a popular item at the time. DB: Mmm-hmm. JI: And-- DB: But everything seems a little bit more casual now. JI: Yeah, and probably more casual in Bristow than they would be in Tulsa. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. (Phone buzzing in background) JI: Ahh, I can' ; t-- DB: Is that your phone? JI: Yeah. DB: Do I need to go get it? JI: Naw. DB: Okay. JI: If they want me, they' ; ll call back. DB: Well now, I know you go to the Methodist Church. Did you always go to the Methodist Church? JI: Yes. My mother was very, very devout Christian and we were in church twice on Sunday and once during the week. Every Sunday school--I mean the whole-- DB: Every--when the door was open, you were there. JI: And--yeah, and there was no picture shows on Sunday or anything like that until finally it got, the pressure got--she backed off of that. (laughs) DB: (laughs) She said go do! Do what you want to do! Let' ; s see. So, really no--I' ; d like, not really hard times growing up? Like, Christmases or out of work times, or-- JI: Oh, we didn' ; t have--you might have called it hard times today, but we didn' ; t consider it hard times. They--some families had a whole lot more money than the majority of others but I don' ; t know--we just didn' ; t pay any attention to it. It was just--it was-- DB: I--I think I get it. We were very middle-class, we never wanted for anything, but we--there were others who probably--who I know had more, but we were fine. JI: That' ; s exactly the way it was then. The most of us were middle-class and, and--there' ; s always gonna be people--be people with more. DB: Mmm-hmm. Always. Always. Did you ride the train? Did you ride the train? JI: Well, hitchhiked more than riding the train. We' ; d--we rode the train maybe if we were alone, but I can' ; t ever remember taking a family trip on a train. I took the train home when I' ; d--had enlisted in the Marine Corps and when I found out, when I was going in on active duty I left school and I rode the train home then. That' ; s the only time I ever rode in my life! DB: From Norman to Bri--from Norman or from-- JI: From Norman. DB: From Norman, home. JI: Yeah. And you didn' ; t think anything about hitchhiking. DB: Huh. JI: Today I wouldn' ; t pick a hitchhiker up for anything in the world, and I thought I' ; d never see that time. But I just wouldn' ; t do it today. DB: Umm-- JI: And-- DB: --first time you flew on a plane? JI: First time was when the Marines flew me. (chuckles) DB: (laughs) Didn' ; t have a choice. And you were in--so you were about eighteen or nineteen when you enlisted? You were in college? JI: I was probably nineteen. DB: About nineteen. And-- JI: It was the thing to do. There was none of this--I' ; d say ninety-nine percent of the guys would' ; ve been heartbroken if they couldn' ; t get in, and they couldn' ; t serve. There might' ; ve been one percent that--or less that they did not want to. And then those that were physically unfit that couldn' ; t serve because of their physical conditions, they were really heartbroken. I mean it was a, it was a completely different thing and it was a--the war was a--just everybody was involved. Everybody was--the people at home suffered greatly. They--it was--everybody participated. DB: Your brothers--your brother--every--were you the only one-- JI: He had a--he had a--he had a, a physical condition and couldn' ; t-- DB: He couldn' ; t do it. Now had your father served? Had your father served? JI: My father? No, he was in-between. DB: He was in-between. Let' ; s see. Do you remember any segregation in town? Any segregation in town? JI: Oh, when I was growing up the schools were segregated. And all the time I was in school. And-- DB: Did they have their own-- JI: An incident that changed my mind completely on this subject happened when we were putting in a Teen Town. Put in a Teen Town and it was, it was segregated. And there got to be a problem over that when they integrated the school. So at a board meeting when we were trying to decide what we were going to do, make a decision--Richard Stromme (ph) who was a high school athlete at the time, came in--we had kids in talking, and he says, I don' ; t know what the problem is. I can still remember him saying-- (cell phone music playing in background) DB: Sorry. JI: I can still hear Richard saying, You expect us to go out. We get in a dressing room. We dress with ' ; em. We go out, we play football with ' ; em. We come back in and we undress, shoulder to shoulder. We take a shower together. Now are we supposed to--when we walk out of the--are we supposed to say, We' ; ll see you tomorrow, we' ; re going to Teen Town and we' ; ll just see you in the morning. And that changed my mind completely on the subject and-- DB: Absolutely. JI: It was--it was absolutely right, no question about it, and the integration in Bristow was as--went off as easy as it did any place in the country, I believe, as far as any memory I have of it. We had two or three black elderly guys that were very, very prominent through the black neighborhood, and who also had been involved in the white world. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. JI: And they--they was just invaluable in this thing. I don' ; t remember any problems happening, any riots or any--anything over it. DB: Well, that' ; s-- JI: I think it went off easier here than any place. Which it should' ; ve been-- DB: Too bad there weren' ; t cameras so that we could do that now. JI: Isn' ; t that the truth. DB: Let' ; s see. Any oil drilling in your family? An oil people in your family? JI: Oil? Oh, my dad was involved with all of the rig building back there-- DB: Oh, yeah. JI: --during the boom. That' ; s when your derricks were all built--they had a rig, you know, timber and they' ; d--on their drilling sites, and, yeah. And he was involved with that but never got involved in owning any oil, or-- DB: The production or the drilling. Well, and then he would' ; ve had that lumber yard right in the middle of the boom. JI: Yep. DB: So he would' ; ve done really well. Supplying the wood. Well-- JI: I' ; d like to talk to you about the hospital. DB: Oh, I' ; d love to hear about the hospital. JI: We had a clinic in Bristow. Dr. Cowart and Dr. Sisler kept this clinic going. It was two story, their offices were downstairs and upstairs there was a half a dozen beds, upstairs. And they served Bristow. If--if you had a child born downstairs, then you had to get people to help carry mama and the baby upstairs. And there' ; s no elevators. I mean, it was up a narrow stairway. All of my children were born there, in fact. But anyway, when we got back after the war, the Veterans of Foreign Wars did not have a chapter here. And we started a Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, and it was extremely active. The American Legion at that time wanted a separate operation, so they kept theirs. The golf course--the country club--had been turned into a cow pasture during the war, the building had sat there and was just completely--just completely run down. And the guys that--we decided to take that golf course over. Don Lewis' ; s folks--Don Lewis was one of the guys who were involved and we later had his parents in to run the place. But anyway, we just started and did a lot of the work on the fairways and the greens. They were just old Bermuda grass greens and--but it was a place to play. And then we did a tremendous amount of work getting the clubhouse back in shape. All of the members--people dreaded to see us come because we always had three or four books of chances on something we were raffling off and that' ; s--and we rebuilt it with that kind of money. I mean, it was all done and--there weren' ; t contributions in the way there are today. These guys--all of the guys were--wanted some kind of a memorial to the people that had given their lives and the ones that had served during, during the war. And of course, all the ideas, you know--put a monument up here, a statute, or this kind of a thing. And we wanted something better. The government had a hospital program at the time--it was the Hill-Burton Act, that you signed up for. There were so many people that signed up for it, you just had to wait your turn. But we did all the paperwork knowing that when we got the chance, if it--when our name come, would come up--that we did not have the lead in our britches to get this thing done. We knew that. But nobody else had started it, so we got it started. When the--well, we got word then from the people that' ; s running this, well we-- DB: The act, or whatever-- JI: That our due day--I mean, that we were accomp--we were approved. And we had to give them an answer by X whatever the date was. Well, we started promoting it. And it was so different then. Your Main Street was full, and it was individually owned and they--they were the fa--the city fathers and, and the--so we got involved with those guys. It might' ; ve been through the chamber or something, but it was--we had all the business--most of the businessmen in Bristow were involved on that end. And we kept promoting this thing to them. And they kept saying, You know that' ; s a wonderful idea but it' ; s too big for Bristow, we can' ; t do this. And we' ; d go back and we' ; d try again. Well it came down, tomorrow' ; s the day we' ; ve got to let ' ; em know we' ; re gonna do this, had one last meeting with them. And it was in the Roland Hotel. There was something going on in the ballroom, so we met on the stairs. Now here' ; s all these business guys sittin' ; up there and we' ; ve made our last, we' ; ve made our last approach to it, and it just--it was just a negative attitude. And finally Lawrence Jones, who was Mike Jones' ; grandfather, got up and he was--oh, up the stairs a way, and he went and got down in front and he turned around, and he--he was a great big good lookin' ; guy, smart as thunder, and he gave the best speech you ever heard in your life and he shamed these guys to who laid the chunk. I mean, it was no--. DB: (laughing) JI: It was--he laid it on ' ; em. I mean, good. He sat down, this thing passed, a hundred percent, a committee was formed, that the VFW accepted this the next day and the ball was turned over to the committee. The next--within a day or two, we were going up and down the street and getting fifty dollars--fifty-dollar contribution from the business people for the--to get enough money to operate to get a bond issue. And nobody--everybody kicked in the fifty. I mean there wasn' ; t anything, they had it, and the bond issue was promoted. One of the best promotions you ever saw in your life. And passed with ninety-nine--as I recall, ninety-nine point something of the votes. I mean it was just overwhelming. DB: Wow. Wow. JI: And it was built as a memorial to the--to the people that' ; d served in, in World War II. DB: Wow. JI: They' ; ve gotten away from that now, but the VFW started this thing, Johnny Horany (ph) is the guy that, that made--that brought this up at one of our meetings. Said, I think--what about this? What about if we built a hospital? This--you know, We' ; ve got this down there, but what if we-- DB: Brought it here. JI: And-- DB: That' ; s amazing. JI: Yeah, it is. It was--it was a great story, and it will be lost unless it goes into the-- DB: Yes. JI: All the dates and the figures and everything can, can be-- DB: I' ; m sure there' ; s-- JI: --gotten from the newspaper archives. They, they were one hundred percent supportive. DB: So our build--our hospital is what was built-- JI: That was it. DB: --because of that? JI: Ma' ; am? DB: Because of that bond issue and that' ; s our building that we have right now? JI: That' ; s our building! That--that was it! DB: Wow. JI: The doctor building wasn' ; t included. But about--I don' ; t know, I believe it was the guys that these--superintendent out there was Henry Lamb, and he told us that unless we got more doctors, we just didn' ; t have enough doctors, but they didn' ; t have any place to operate and they had to have support. So the hospital board went in and, three or four years later, and had a--raised the money and, and built the doctor' ; s building that' ; s there now. DB: That is just--that is a good story. That is amazing. JI: And that--that is factual. I mean, I-- DB: I can just see those businessmen: on the stairs, in the hotel, because there wasn' ; t a room--it was something going on. JI: We were sittin' ; on the stairs, and it, it-- DB: And the guy got up and said (pounding sound). JI: Oh, he got up and-- DB: (laughing) JI: He laid it on ' ; em. (chuckles) I was ready to-- DB: I like what you said, that he shamed ' ; em and--you said it a different way, but, I think I got it. That was a--that' ; s a good story. No more good stories like that? JI: Oh, no, that--you know, in the period that I was growing up, there was Highway 66, and it carried a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. And we had three eating establishments here. The Anchor was built out on Highway 66 in my time. The Hamburger King is where the restaurant is there on South Main. DB: Beach House. JI: And then, on up towards Fifth Street was the J& ; J Café. And the J& ; J Café--the people traveling from--between the cities always made a stop in Bristow for lunch or something like that--it was very-- DB: About halfway. JI: And they barbecued their own meat out there, had a big barbecue pit built out beside, behind. The Hamburger King--oh, I can' ; t think of his name. But there' ; s a Hamburger King in Shawnee, Oklahoma right now. DB: I didn' ; t know that. JI: You go in and they got pictures of this guy, and it was an offshoot from Bristow. DB: I did not know that! JI: There was a long counter in there, and--what was his name? He sat with his cash till in the middle of this counter and one end--on the south end--you could see the cook down there and he' ; s--that' ; s where he cooked the hamburgers. And he could sit there and watch up and down and he always had a cigar--always had a cigar. Most of the time it wasn' ; t lit. Sold ten cent hamburgers and got wealthy. DB: Wow. JI: After the wa--when we came back, one of my friends bought it. (laughs) He put in a club back there, got to building it to put in a club and everything and dress things up and had different venues and went broke! (laughs) DB: (laughing) JI: (claps) DB: Should' ; ve gone back to ten cent hamburgers! JI: Oh, yeah, oh that story tickles me to death. DB: Oh, that is funny! JI: But it wasn' ; t anything to see, see the pro wrestlers loved the Anchor. It wasn' ; t anything to go in there and there' ; d be guys that' ; d been down there killing each other on the mat, rode together back to Tulsa, and they' ; d stop in there and they' ; d eat. Everybody' ; s fun and games. (chuckles) And it was a--and Jack Abraham is one that owned the J& ; J Cafe--named after his two boys. Jack and Joe Lee (ph), but it was--it was an up--upbeat restaurant. I mean it was first class. It was in--they got a lot, a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. DB: Those were good times. JI: Oh, yeah. DB: Good times. Well, Joe, I appreciate your time. And this is gonna be an important part of the archives. It will be uploaded eventually to the archives at Oklahoma State where people will be able to go, if they' ; re researching Bristow history, and listen to some of your stories. And if you don' ; t have anything else-- JI: Debbie, I can' ; t think of anything else that-- DB: You could probably tell me stories all day. JI: If somebody could say something then that would bring back a memory and--we just had a, it was just a good place to grow up and, and then to start a family. It was just a, a--so different than it is today. DB: Yes. Well again, thank you very much. JI: Now I can talk off the record. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=Joe_Ihle.xml Joe_Ihle.xml
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Joseph Alfred "Joe" Ihle
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OHP2-0003
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History in Bristow
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2020-07-08
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Ed Cadenhead
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Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman
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Lebanon
Lebanese
1979
Deeb Slyman
Annie Slyman
Tex Slyman
Nellie Slyman
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5.4 June 21, 1979 OHP-0022 Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex OHP-0022 00:30:51 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Lebanon Lebanese 1979 Deeb Slyman Annie Slyman Tex Slyman Nellie Slyman Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman Ed Cadenhead MP3 1:|78(2)|99(3)|125(3)|146(9)|168(1)|191(4)|209(2)|226(4)|270(6)|298(2)|298(3)|357(11)|394(3)|428(13)|481(2)|543(3)|614(6)|655(10)|707(4)|744(2)|769(1)|796(13)|835(3)|876(2)|912(2)|940(9)|970(10)|993(14)|1016(5)|1045(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0022 Deeb Family.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and First Days In America EC: Mrs.— TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman . EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I— EC: (Chuckling) No, I can’t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now—your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that’s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis . EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. Arabic ; Bristow ; Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Main Street ; Massachsetts Arrival In America ; Arrival In Bristow ; Mr Slyman's Grocery Store https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873405/deeb-slyman-hoyek Mrs. Deeb Slyman's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26863670/ellis-slyman-hoyek Ellis Slyman Hoyek's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave 334 Arrival In Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul—the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for—for four months. So— EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything—can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice’s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. The Slyman's arrival in Bristow and Annie's struggle getting in Alice Coby ; Bristow ; France ; Frank Mike ; Lebanon ; Paris ; Train Depot Annie Slyman stuck in Paris ; Arrival In Bristow 469 Lebanese Families In Bristow EC: What was the name of your village in— AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That’s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of—if not all the Lebanese families here—came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let’s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that’s the old-timers. Where did—where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. The Slyman's talk about other Lebanese families in Bristow and the surrounding areas Bdadoun ; Creek County ; Drumright ; Eliases ; Farhouds ; Fogaley ; Frank Forey ; Horany ; Howayek ; Juneau ; Khazin ; Labanon ; League of Americanized Syrians ; Marjayoun ; Marquettes ; Naifeh ; Oilton ; Oklahoma City ; Paul Gillismon ; Sam Beshara ; Shama ; Shamrock ; Tulsa ; Wabisaaiour Lebanese Families https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21579898/sam-beshara Sam Beshara's Grave 1059 Experiences In Bristow EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there’s more Greek Orthodox— EC: Oh really! NS: I don’t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um— I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S— H-O-M? The Sylman's experiences and stories from growing up and living in Bristow Americanized ; Anti-Catholic ; Anti-foreign ; Catholic ; Greek Orthodox ; Madellia Hamra ; Oil Boom ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; Uphus Abraham Experiences in Bristow ; Religion 1474 Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty— 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn’t hurt em’— it didn’t hurt em’ a bit. EC: What— NS: My husband was— EC: Yeah— NS: a— he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow Airplane ; Bristow ; Depew ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; Grocery Store ; League of Americanized Syrians Growing Up in Bristow ; Holidays in Bristow ; Raising Children In Bristow 35.834122, -96.394409 17 Nellie Slyman's Home This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Interviewer: Ed Cadenhead (EC) Interviewee: Mrs. Annie Slyman (AS), Edmond " ; Tex" ; Slyman (TS), Nellie Slyman (NS) Date of Interview: June 21, 1979 Location: Unknown Transcriber: Melissa Holderby and Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Length: 00:00-30:51 Abstract: This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb' ; s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. EC: Mrs.-- TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I-- EC: (Chuckling) No, I can' ; t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now--your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that' ; s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis. EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. TS: (Inaudible in background) EC: Right. Well what kind of business were they in when they first came here? AS: (Inaudible in background) EC: A general grocery store? Yeah. TS: When they first came, what did he do? AS: (in heavily accented English) When he first came this way he used to have a little place downtown, called it (indecipherable). He used to have little (indecipherable). He said he ran it for (indecipherable). NS: When he first came, he was down and out. And I think he had around twenty-five dollars in money. So he goes in--goes into this little stand down there on Fifth Street somewhere. Was it on Fifth Street, down there where the old store was? AS: Huh? NS: He started on Fifth Street? You know, where the-- AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Oh, he started on Main Street. AS: Yeah, on Main Street. NS: Oh! Well, I-- AS: He used to (Indecipherable) and he worked with Ed Abraham. Then he bought the place from Ed Abraham for fifteen dollars. NS: Fifteen dollars. Oh. EC: So, the real--the real reason he came was because of Abraham? NS: He came when he was real young. Why did Uncle Deeb come to this country? Because he couldn' ; t live--make a living over there? AS: When he come from (indecipherable) country? EC: Yeah. NS: Why? Do you know? AS: I don' ; t know him that time. I don' ; t know. NS: Oh, you don' ; t know why, he just--they were young--the way I understand, they were young, adventuresome guys. They wanted to come to this world. And they came, and he lived in Massachusetts for a bunch of years picking cranberries. ' ; Cause he said, We used to go out there and pick cranberries and we didn' ; t even have anything to keep our feet warm. We' ; d put gunny sacks and paper sacks on our feet to keep us warm. These are stories I' ; ve heard from them. EC: Sure, sure. NS: And then, when they did come to this part of Oklahoma--I don' ; t know what made ' ; em come to this part of Oklahoma. But--you know, she' ; s talking about this fifteen-dollar business he started out with: he wanted the--the workers around there wanted to eat. So he' ; d get up and he' ; d make a pot of stew or soup. Every day he' ; d make a pot, and they' ; d come in and eat with the family. He started a little business like that. And as far as I know, he went in from that into what they called a mercantile business, with Mike--or Frank Mike (ph). And they had a nice--one of the best stores in town then. With Frank Mike (ph). But I don' ; t know of the years. See, this is all before my day. EC: Yeah, sure. NS: All I know is historical, you know. EC: Well-- NS: And-- EC: Yeah, go ahead. NS: And they run this--these stores. And of course, you know, it was like--you buy now and pay when the cotton come in, you know. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: That' ; s the way it was up until--I' ; m gonna say in--let me see. After he got through with Frank Mike (ph), he went into a business by himself down on Fifth Street. And he was still catering to the farmer then. And-- TS: To the Indians and the farmers-- NS: Well, Indian--well, anyway all these people that can' ; t buy--can' ; t pay but once or twice a year, you know. TS: Mmm-hmm. NS: And he would give them credit for the whole year--big families come in, buy groceries. And he had dry goods, too. Like overalls and you know--whatever they used TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: --gloves and stuff that they used--the farmers would use. And they' ; d come and pay him once or twice a year. There' ; s one thing about Mr. Slyman that he didn' ; t do but other business people here in town did--he did not foreclose on anybody. He did not take anybody' ; s cow away from them, he did not take anybody' ; s horse away from them because they couldn' ; t pay their bill. He just--Okay, son, you do the best you can and pay me when you can. Of course, when he finally did finish his business, he had enough money--if he had the cash he could' ; ve built half of Bristow. But he did not fore--he wasn' ; t--he didn' ; t foreclose on anybody. EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul--the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for--for four months. So-- EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything--can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice' ; s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: And I come home that night. On twenty-six of September. EC: Uh-huh! NS: She was stranded in Paris for--how long did you have to stay in Paris when you--coming from--you had to stay four months in Paris. Because she wasn' ; t American citizen and he wasn' ; t, either. And they kept her in Paris. And he came on to Bristow. AS: (Inaudible in background.) So we brought--so, Slyman, he had a cousin in our country, he was like (indecipherable). So one time Slyman said--we used to write letters to the our country to see if we can come. So (indecipherable), he sent word to the American consul in Beirut. And told him that if he can permit me to come. The consul in Beirut, he wrote to the consul in France-- in Paris. So they let me come. EC: What was the name of your village in-- AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That' ; s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of--if not all the Lebanese families here--came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let' ; s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that' ; s the old-timers. Where did--where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. NS: He came from Bdadoun, too? AS: Bdadoun. NS: Joe? AS: Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. NS: Mmm-hmm. AS: --family-- TS: Oh, they' ; re all from-- AS: And the Eliases. They' ; re all from Bdadoun. TS: Well, (inaudible). AS: (Indecipherable.) TS: (Indecipherable.) AS: Bdadoun. EC: I--you probably can answer this, I don' ; t know. It' ; s not unusual, of course, for a number of people from--immigrating to this country to come to one place because they have friends or relatives, you know. But is it unusual in Oklahoma to find this many Lebanese families in one place? Or are you aware of other places in the state where there are-- NS: I mean, this time, Oklahoma don' ; t have anything compared to the east. EC: Right. But what about Oklahoma, though? Are there other centers-- NS: Oh, other? Oh--in Oklahoma--in Oklahoma City there' ; s a big bunch of Lebanese. EC: Oh, there are? NS: In fact, they--part of ' ; em' ; s lived here in Bristow. EC: Well, but they--some of them came from Bristow. Some of the ones in Tulsa came from Bristow. NS: Yeah. Uh-huh (agreeing). They came--they (indecipherable). But this wa--this--into that like--they started the--these old timers started first on cotton. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: (Inaudible in background) --my husband came to Creek County. But talk about--they came, then they started speculating, these--they took chances. They couldn' ; t write their own name. Joe Abraham was a millionaire--he died as a millionaire--but he could not write his name. He has X' ; s on there. Deeb--that' ; s her husband--my husband' ; s uncle. He could write his name--I couldn' ; t find anything with his signature on it around here, but there is some writing in there, but it' ; s all in Arabic. He could barely write his name. He actually--before he died--he was ninety-some years old before he died--he got to where he could read the newspaper. And he' ; d negotiate all his--he did all his bookwork himself. No--no bookkeepers. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And business. And--but they' ; re all self-educated, on their own. They didn' ; t none of them go to school. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: Not even in Lebanon, I think. Now I don' ; t know about Joe Abraham, if he had any Leban--any education from there. He came awful young. Joe and--well that was Herb. Herb could tell you more about his dad. EC: Well, I--I was still kind of wonder--why they' ; re-- NS: Why, why they chose this part-- EC: Why--or is that unusual? Are there other communities in the state now-- NS: No.EC: Where you can find-- NS: No, no-- TS: It seems like one at a time they followed each other-- EC: Right. TS: And just, I think, their philosophy was just--this is kind of a new territory, territory -(indecipherable), and they did a lot of--lot of trading with the Indians and the people around here. And they were--most of the tradition of the Lebanese people then was very business-minded. EC: Yeah. TS: I mean, they didn' ; t believe in an eight-hour day, they believed in eighteen-hour-a-day, work day. And this is what the one thing that they succeeded in was hard work. And their--their enjoyment was getting with each other. EC: Sure. TS: And having a--reminiscing the old--the old country more than anything. EC: Yeah. TS: That was their entertainment. NS: They formed what they called the League of Americanized Syrians there. That was--that was just some organization like Rotary Club or-- TS: Here in Bristow. NS: They had--yeah, it was in Bristow. And of course the League of Americanized Syrians would come from Drumright. Would come from Oklahoma City. They would come from Oilton. And Shamrock. Now, see--there was some Lebanese (indecipherable). That I know of. Of course, most of the Lebanese came in--they were mostly mercantile people. Now, the ones in Drumright--they had what you' ; d call a dry goods store. The (indecipherable), they call ' ; em. TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: There used to be Farhouds (ph). There used to be Marquettes (ph). I could--now these are all from Drumright. I' ; m from Drumright. EC: Oh, are you? NS: I was born in Pennsylvania but I was raised in--reared in Drumright. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And then-- EC: Well, now--help me with Lebanese names. The name Fogaley is-- NS: I came from the Fogaley family. My father-- EC: But that' ; s more like a--a clan? NS: Oh, oh--okay. EC: Yeah. NS: Fogaley is like this one family back there when in, maybe the 1500s. A whole family of boys named Fogaley. And they all went out, you know, and had their own families. Now that is what we call the clan of the family--like the Naifeh family-- EC: Right. NS: --I don' ; t know if you' ; re heard of the Naifeh family-- EC: Yes, I know. Yes. NS: Okay. Now that' ; s where the Fogaley' ; s from. But here' ; s how we lost our names is every time a child is born, they were named by their father' ; s first name. My father' ; s name was Henry Joseph. Now, he was Henry Joseph and his father' ; s name was Habib Fogaley (ph), see. So that goes back, right now--I lost Fogaley --the situation, by--I was raised a Joseph. EC: Now, the Slymans were not Fogaley. NS: Slymans were Howayek. H-O-W--how do you spell it? H-O-W-Y-E-K. Y-E-- TS: Y-E. NS: Y-E. TS: I just repeat it how they told me to spell it, so I don' ; t know if it' ; s H-O-Y-E-K. NS: H-O-Y-E-K. TS: And I don' ; t know if I made it right or not. NS: Mm-hmm. EC: Well-- NS: And that' ; s (indecipherable). TS: See, what I understood is the name Slyman came-- NS: From the (indecipherable) TS: From--was Uncle Deeb' ; s dad' ; s name. And our name was-- EC: Okay-- TS: And he put down Deeb Slyman when he came into the country as his name. EC: Okay. NS: And then--then he always added Howayek. Now, when he wrote papers for the-- TS: When he wrote papers to the old country, he always used the Deeb Slyman Howayek, okay. EC: So, at one point I was told, and maybe you know something different--there were twenty-seven Lebanese families in Bristow. TS: Oh, I (indecipherable) AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Now? EC: No at some point. TS: At one time? EC: Yeah, but most of those were then, Fogaley' ; s. NS: Fogaley clan! EC: Yeah. Most of them-- NS: We have the--we have the Feghalis and Slymans and then what--Fogaley' ; s and Slymans, now they call it Feghalis--some go by Feghali, some go by Fogaley. The real--the first was F-O-G-A-L-E-Y. The Fogaley family. And that' ; s what--see, my father was a Fogaley. EC: Right. NS: And--Deeb was not a Fogaley. He was a Howayek. EC: Yeah. NS: And I don' ; t know-- TS: Howayek, yeah. The Howayek name in the old country was a very dominant name. EC: Right. TS: It was a very strong name. AS: Howayek--(indecipherable) NS: Patriarch. TS: It was--yeah. Well Khazin (ph) Annie was a Khazin (ph). Annie was-- NS: Political. TS: She was of a more of a political family-- from a political family-- the Khazin family. EC: Right, I see. TS: The Howayek name and family was a-- is a large family. NS: They had a (Inaudible) was well known was because they had a patriarch-- Howayek (Inaudible). EC: Now then-- let' ; s see. (Inaudible talking in the background) AS: (Indecipherable) EC: The Shamas' ; s are folks? NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks. EC: They' ; re what? AS: They' ; re from Bdadoun. NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks (inaudible). TS: (Indecipherable) NS: From another part in Lebanon like-- AS: (Inaudible). EC: The Eliases? AS: The Eliase' ; s are from Bdadoun. EC: They' ; re-- NS: They' ; re Fogaley family and they come from Leban. EC: Right-- and then the (Indecipherable) came later. NS: (Indecipherable) I don' ; t know where they' ; re from. EC: From--they' ; re from-- AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph)? AS: From Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: Wabisaaiour (ph) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm, W-A-B-I-S-A-A-I-O-U-R-- Wabisaaiour (ph)-- EC: Alright. NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. EC: Then there were the-- I' ; m trying to think of some of the others families here that I' ; ve-- NS: Oh well-- EC: Beshara' ; sNS: Oh, Sam Beshara! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Sam Beshara. AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Sam Beshara from-- you remember? AS: Sam Beshara and (Indecipherable) Beshara-- NS: (Indecipherable) Beshara They' ; re from Wabi (ph) too? AS: Mmm-hmm. EC: Okay-- and hmm-- AS: (Inaudible) NS: Yeah, I know. There' ; s two I' ; m trying to think of some more. EC: You remember some of those other things? NS: Old timers (Inaudible) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm. Okay you got anything on the Horany' ; s yet? EC: No. NS: The Horany' ; s were Marjayoun. Weren' ; t they? Horany' ; s! AS: Horany' ; s? NS: Yeah. AS: From Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. AS: (Inaudible). EC: Now what about, Forey (ph)? NS: Umm Annie, how about Frank Forey (ph)? AS: Frank Forey (ph) is from Bdadoun. NS: He' ; s from Bdadoun? See Frank Forey (ph) would be a cousin-- umm an uncle to Paul Gillismon (ph). Have you talked to Paul Gillismon? (ph) EC: No, I have not. NS: He may not give you too much history. No one will give you more about them. See they' ; re related. EC: (Indaudible) NS: Uh-huh. Paul Gillismon' ; s (ph) mother was Joe Abraham' ; s sister. EC: Okay-- Yeah. NS: Now, let' ; s see. I was trying to think of who else. EC: I' ; m trying to think of some of the other names that might-- NS: Me too. AS: (Inaudible) EC: Oh yes! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh! AS: And then-- when the consul (Indecipherable) and he told the consul when you were away from Lebanon we used to make Lebanon women work, but when you come to Lebanon you play to (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there' ; s more Greek Orthodox-- EC: Oh really! NS: I don' ; t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um-- I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S-- H-O-M? TS: H-O-M-S-E-Y. NS: Uh-Huh, they have the-- TS: AMC NS: AMC TS: You know that-- it is called AM-- American EC: Yeah. TS: It used to be called American (Inaudible) but its AMC in Oklahoma City. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: And they have a lot of Bristow-- TS: And they have a lot of Bristow (Indecipherable)--they moved from Bristow to Oklahoma City. EC: Oh, I see. TS: They' ; re very, very special people there. They employed four hundred people in that place. EC: Let' ; s see is the name Hamra-- TS: Hamra. NS: Ok, you' ; re gonna get more information on the Hamra' ; s? EC: Well I just kind of fit them in to this whole-- NS: Yeah I' ; ll tell ya--Madellia Hamra, right now that' ; s the woman-- the daughter. Is running the (Indecipherable) Rainbow Nursing Home, down-- you know. EC: Right, that' ; s where I was headed. NS: Uh huh. EC: Farha? NS: Yeah, the Farha' ; s are-- they' ; re Greek Orthodox from Marjayoun. They came from Marjayoun. TS: Where did the Farha' ; s-- where did the Farha' ; s come from? AS: From (Indecipherable) NS: Annie! The Farha' ; s come from Wabi? AS: The Farha' ; s were from Marjayoun. NS: That' ; s what I thought. AS: (Indecipherable) from Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. EC: Okay. NS: Farha' ; s. EC: Okay, tell me some of your experiences in Bristow. What was life like for you after you came here. AS: Well I (Indecipherable) we don' ; t have it back then (Indecipherable). TS: (Inaudible discussion in background) NS: She had to learn English too. AS: I don' ; t know how to spoke English. EC: Right. AS: They used to (Indecipherable) to ask me something. Do you know English? EC: Mmm-hmm. Well did you work in the store also? AS: No sir. (Indecipherable) then my house work wouldn' ; t get done. EC: Now the oil boom was really over by the time you came here. AS: Yeah. (Indecipherable) 19:55- 20:11- Inaudible NS: Uphus Abraham (ph)? Uphus Abraham (ph)? AS: No. (Indecipherable) NS: Oh! (Indecipherable) Slyman? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Uncle Deeb' ; s? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well that-- I don' ; t know anything about that. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well I' ; ve got a funny story of what happened to Mrs. Horany that' ; s Helen Shamas' ; s (ph) aunt. She came to this-- you know, territory here and she wanted-- wanted a room, just a one room to sleep in. And that was the relation with his dad' ; s sister. Whoever had the house was looking for a bedroom you know and everywhere she goes, in her best English asked for a place to sleep and they would say no room and room in Arabic means Greek Orthodox and she (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) NS: She thought they were telling her that they don' ; t-- that they don' ; t want no Greek Orthodox. EC: I see. NS: (Laughter) that was so funny. EC: In that connection and I' ; m sure this is not an easy kind of a question to answer but from what you have heard or experienced, how much anti-foreign feeling was there in Bristow or anti-Catholic feeling which of course was present all over the country in the 20' ; s-- NS: Well in Drumright when I grew up in school-- EC: Alright-- NS: They isolated us, they didn' ; t like-- they did not like Catholics. Especially if you let em' ; know you' ; re foreign. In school it was very, very hard to make-- EC: Was that true in Bristow as far as you know? NS: Well I-- it wasn' ; t when my kids growing up. Was it Edmond, did you ever hear of that? TS: It wasn' ; t so much so whenever I went to school but I know it was (Indecipherable) EC: Yeah. TS: In the older people that were-- EC: Right. TS: -- foreign-- EC: It' ; s hard to pin down whether this was anti-foreign or anti-Catholic. That' ; s what I' ; m wondering. NS: (Inaudible) TS: That was a real question for a long time. Everyone thought that it was anti-Catholic but there were you know other Catholics in town besides Lebanese people. EC: Right. TS: And so of course we felt like it was a lot of anti-foreign also now one of the reasons was normal human-- EC: Sure, sure. TS: I think-- EC: It wouldn' ; t be unusual. TS: No huh-uh, because of the fact of outsiders coming in (Indecipherable) and they were-- the Lebanese people really did cling together. In fact, they still do to a point. They can-- we have an organization in Tulsa still. It' ; s not as, you know it' ; s not like it was-- very secretive and no one else could get into it, but the Lebanese people had a tendency to stay together because they believed in unity. They believed in-- in trying to work together. Now this was -- I would say this would be the philosophy of the older Lebanese. Now I' ; m talking about my aunt and they had-- EC: Right. TS: -- progressed and you know, you become more Americanized. EC: Yeah-- TS: They changed-- EC: Are you aware-- or have you heard from your aunt or other relatives whether or not any of this carried over into business? For example, did Lebanese families have any more trouble borrowing money, let' ; s say-- at the bank. NS: Oh. TS: No, no-- NS: No, not-- TS: --I don' ; t feel like that. I don' ; t think so. I felt like that there were times that because they were very frugal with their dollars there were times that as time progressed they realized that the Lebanese people were-- they were business minded people-- EC: Right TS: --And this has been kind of a national thing from the old area and I search the web for the whole area-- EC: Sure. TS: --they' ; re very business minded and I think that over a period of years-- I think they had to change-- EC: Right. TS: -- in fact I think there were times (Inaudible) NS: (Inaudible) TS: And it became a-- they became a-- they gained a lot of confidence. EC: Yeah. NS: They had a very good relationship with the banks at that time. I mean because his Uncle Bill-- he' ; s eighty and he built a good relationship. In fact, I think our kids are being helped. Our own-- my generation, my boys are being helped and my children from his reputation when he was there. You know, and the banks and anywhere. EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty-- 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn' ; t hurt em' ; -- it didn' ; t hurt em' ; a bit. EC: What-- NS: My husband was-- EC: Yeah-- NS: a-- he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) NS: (Indecipherable) thirty-five dollars a week and we raised six children. By being very economical and all six-- all four-- the four boys helped down there in the grocery store. If nothing else, just to keep them off the streets. They' ; d dust cans and be sitting in the store helping you know. For maybe a quarter a day or something like that. (Laughter) And I don' ; t know whether-- I don' ; t think it hurt them, as far as I know I don' ; t. Maybe they feel like they got hurt but they didn' ; t have all the luxuries. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. EC: Right. NS: They had their own-- they wanted their own ballgame and ballfield. They formed it themselves, no organize. We didn' ; t have any organize play like they have now. EC: What about special occasions? Did they still have something like Fourth of July picnics and-- NS: Yes. EC: -- parades or-- NS: Uh-Huh EC: --did the circus still come in those days? NS: We didn' ; t have those but we would have a special occasion on the holidays. My own personal family-- let' ; s say. I came from a family of eight brothers and sisters and we managed once or twice a year to get together and there is usually about fifty or sixty of us of immediate family-- that means children and grandchildren, you know-- EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: --In-laws and outlaws and all that. We all have that, and I know-- I was reading about the Naifehs have that too. They call it you know like a convention or something. We don' ; t have-- we plan it at holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving and Easter. We get together-- covered dish dinners and be together. Then of course-- I don' ; t-- I don' ; t know if there' ; s anything organized anymore like that as far as-- EC: I was thinking more-- NS: These oh like the League of Americanized Syrians, they don' ; t have that anymore. EC: I was really thinking of Bristow itself. NS: Of Bristow itself-- EC: Did the city have a Fourth of July-- NS: No we don' ; t have enough-- EC: --picnics and stuff when you came here-- NS: We don' ; t have enough people here anymore to do anything like that. They did at one time we' ; d just go to the artesian wells when I was about fourteen, twelve, ten, eleven years old. See I don' ; t know where the artesian wells-- between here and Depew all I know. (Indecipherable) Best spring water ever came out of it and this whole-- the League of Americanized Syrians would go over there and oh I mean we were about like a hundred of em' ; . Come from all the surrounding areas and spent the whole day on Fourth of July. But that was in the past, I just wanted you to know. EC: What has been some of the things that you remember that were really interesting or funny to you. What' ; s happened to you in Bristow? Anything special that you can think of? AS: No sir. NS: Annie! Well, tell him about the time you flew on the airplane. AS: Huh? NS: Tell him about the airplane! You tell it to me a hundred times. EC: Tell me-- NS: You remember when you flew on the airplane? AS: Yes, we flew the airplane. First thing I see is the (Indecipherable) we was in Arkansas and they told me that I could fly. He said (Indecipherable) would you wanna fly. First time I flew was in 1920-- 1950. I went (Indecipherable) then I come back here. I went to our country with my husband and you see he did not want to go on the airplane. He wanted the ship. He said he didn' ; t want to die. I told him if you go on the jet you will die and if you go on the ship you will die, if you are on the airplane too. (Laughter) AS: I told him if you' ; re on the airplane and you die you don' ; t know it. But if you' ; re in the ship and you the big ship sunk and you go under the water and come up (indecipherable) come to the rescue. EC: Right. AS: And he never flew in the airplane but when we start to come back his ship was on (Indecipherable). We had to come on the airplane. He enjoyed very much. In 1960 we went another trip, me and him. We stayed out there for six months and come back. NS: Tell the one about the (Indecipherable) Oh, look at that eggplant up there! EC: (Laughter) NS: And that lady laughed and said that' ; s not eggplant, that' ; s an airplane. You know she said-- she said it wrong. I wanted her to tell that one. She always used to tell me about it all the time. Called, eggplant (Laughter). EC: Right. NS: About the eggplant! (Laughter) AS: I used-- we used to have neighbors living in the attic. We had to move them to the garage. They used to live upstairs. His wife and (Indecipherable) were spoken to me and I heard that there' ; s some airplane (Indecipherable) because I told her, " ; Some eggplant passed" ; she laughed. She said " ; That' ; s not eggplant that' ; s a vegetable you eat." ; EC: Laughter AS: Airplane is when you fly on it. EC: Right. AS: And she used to correct me when I spoke English, her and her husband. EC: I see. AS: And (Indecipherable) used to live next to (Indecipherable) our house. EC: Mmm-hmm. What are some of the oldest buildings in Bristow that you remember? What are-- are there some still around? Buildings or houses that were here when you came? NS: Our house from the 1900s. (Inaudible talking in the background) EC: Your house? This is--who built it? NS: Well he used to be the mayor but I don' ; t remember. I don' ; t know if-- you know who knows? Who built it. (Indecipherable) EC: Okay. NS: She knows who built the house. EC: And that' ; s-- what' ; s the address of it? NS: My house? EC: Yeah. NS: 229 West seventh. EC: 229 West seventh. NS: Uh-huh. EC: Okay. NS: But she came over the other day and told me that her happiest days were in that house. She grew up as a teenager and they would go over there and there was some teenage girls-- EC: Oh, Uh-huh. NS: And they' ; d-- and she' ; d-- and I think she-- and if I remember I think she said she took music lessons-- EC: Yeah. NS: --in that house. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: It was built I think by one of the first mayors, but I don' ; t know the name. See that' ; s one thing I don' ; t know. End of interview audio The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.’s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml
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Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex
Description
An account of the resource
This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow.
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OHP-0022
Date
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1979-06-21
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audio
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654f4a48eeed645b81acc24a35aecd79
Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ed Cadenead
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Kate Corey
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml
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Oil Boom
World War I
World War II
Teaching
Entertainment
Racial Intergration
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5.4 Unknown OHP-0025-02 Kate Corey OHP-0025-02 0:00-39:08 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Oil Boom World War I World War II Teaching Entertainment Racial Intergration Kate Corey Ed Cadenead MP3 1:|60(9)|82(8)|97(1)|105(1)|118(8)|134(4)|150(7)|170(6)|189(13)|211(4)|222(15)|230(14)|245(14)|252(8)|265(5)|274(10)|289(7)|303(13)|319(5)|338(3)|351(2)|360(9)|368(9)|381(4)|392(4)|407(2)|421(8)|430(5)|442(9)|460(15)|471(9)|479(14)|488(11)|504(13)|516(3)|524(2)|530(13)|540(6)|555(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0025B Corey, Kate.mp3 Other audio 0 Bristow Before, During, and After The Oil Boom KC: I’m Kate B. Corey, and I was reared in Western Oklahoma, but when I was married, came to Creek County in 1920, during the oil boom at Depew. A little town seven miles from here, and we lived there five years and then moved to Bristow. We have been here ever since. EC: Alright, and where was your husband from? KC: He was— well he’s from— he was born in Kansas, but he’d lived in Oklahoma— Edmond and other places. His father was a railroad man and so he traveled up the Frisco Line and he was at two or three stations but had been here as I said since 1899. EC: Well why did you happen to move to Bristow? KC: Well, just because the boom was dying out over at— the oil boom was dying out over at Depew, and then my husband’s father had a bank here and so he came over to do some work there and then he was working as— in the (Indecipherable) until he lost his shirt. (Laughter from both) KC: — right at the time that the banks were closing and— and the—there were three banks of the five in Bristow that closed that year. EC: Which bank was your husband’s fathers? KC: The First State Bank. Life during the Oil Boom in Bristow Cotton ; Cotton Wagons ; Creek County ; Depew ; Dust ; First State Bank ; Frisco Line ; Oil Boom ; Oilfield Slick ; Substitute ; Teaching Bank ; Bristow Before and After the OIl Boom ; Bristow During the Oil Boom ; Oil Boom 293 Nightlife with Bootleggers, and Bank Failure EC: Someone told me that woman, that she didn’t like early day Bristow because she couldn’t go out. KC: M-HM. EC: — and you had the same experience. KC: I had the same experience, at night. Went all the time in the day time, and we— it was when we were— we lived in Depew but we came over here almost every day because my husband’s parents lived here. We’d come over in the evening and when we’d go home, I would just take off my wedding ring and anything else I had of any value and hide it, and several times we’d go home just to find out that someone had been held up the night before— EC: Oh. KC: — and one night as we were driving home, a car turned in from a side road and followed us all the way just shooting up in the air and yelling at us, and when we tried to drive fast they did, and if we slowed they did. So my husband went to the, oh I guess the cuffs force— somebody at Depew. There wasn’t any policeman, and report him and had him put in jail because he came into town. So long in the middle of the night, the phone rang and it was one of his friends and it was his casing crew who had been arrested. They had just had a little bit too much to drink and were just having a good time. Coming a long (Indecipherable) but it was as effective as if they’d really went (Indecipherable). Laughter. EC: Yes. Any other memories of those days? KC: Well— EC: (Indecipherable) oil business KC: — another time we were driving home and passed the place that we’d always called it a “Bootleggers Camp” and suddenly we stopped because a woman was lying right across the road and a man stepped out to attend and he said, “I have one down here, would you help me get her inside?” So my husband stepped out, and just as he did, she stepped up and grabbed the whiskey bottle and in no uncertain oilfield terms told him just exactly what he was. (Laughter) EC: Oh my! American National Bank ; Bank Failure ; Bootleggers Camp ; First State Bank Bank Failure ; Bootleggers ; Nightlife 1459 Teaching and Schools In Bristow EC: When did you start teaching school here? KC: Well— EC: The second time. KC: —the second time I started, in 1930. I had— we had two older children and when they were about seven and eight there was another one and he was born just a few weeks after the October 29th crash and my husband was— he had multiple skin cancers and in depression times it was just better for him to go to the veteran’s hospital, and the nearest one was Chicago, and so he— and they wouldn’t, they’d treat him and then he had to stay there until he was dismissed. So, he would wood work when he was out, but that would take a month or two out of six months every once in a while. He’d had over— already had an overdose of radiation. Guinea pig for a (Indecipherable) EC: What was the school system like? KC: Well, it was pretty great, it was the best school I ever was in. Including the later years. The CH Black his name was there, was the head of the school system, superintendent and he was, he was considered a slave driver by many people. But he was alright as long as, as teachers did what they were asked to do, and I found him very well. It was pleasant working for him because he accomplished much. Bristow had a reputation of having one of the best schools in the state and for instance, one year the freshmen— in the freshmen class at both OU and Stillwater, Bristow High School received the trophies for highest grade point averages of freshmen in school. Which spoke very well for them and there was a— a very strong faculty of dedicated teachers and with Mr. Black there if you didn’t get— if you weren’t dedicated you became dedicated or you didn’t stay. EC: How long did you continue to teach? KC: I taught from 1930 to 1961. EC: Schools stayed as good? Teaching, Bristow High School and the Integration of Students Bill Mitchell ; Crazy Snake Uprising ; Intergration ; Lincoln Heights ; Lincoln High School ; Marjel Frye ; Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt ; Mrs. Lucinda Johnson ; Mumford McGee ; National Youth Administration ; OU ; Stillwater ; Tulsa Bristow ; High School ; Intergration ; School ; Teaching 1740 Entertainment In Bristow EC: Going back in time, thinking back to the—your— the 1920’s when you first married, what was life like in Bristow? What did you do for entertainment? KC: Oh! We had— it was great! (Laughter) For the women it was bridge clubs and the town was— had grown so fast and we were in the habit of inviting everybody that we knew to the bridge club ya know? Well as more people came in, we still invite em’ and it— it wasn’t anything unusual to have a bridge party of fourteen to twenty tables and we moved out everything but the beds and the kitchen stove to have em’. Everyone dressed up in their best dress and we wore our hats and kept em’ on all the time that we were playing and it was an occasion to use the best china and the silver and the— and the linen cloths and it was so easy because you could have em’ made four dollars a week. EC: M-HM KC: And, that was great, and for a while long in those boom days the— we had dances and— EC: Where did you have them? KC: At the, oh in the— at the country club. I think it was built, it was built about 1923 or 25 and the Roland Hotel had a (Indecipherable) and you’ve heard of the (Indecipherable) KFRU the— EC: Yes, I have. KC: —the radio station, and the men wore their tuxes and it was just a very great life. There was a, my husband was one of the charter members of the golf country club, the country club and played golf all the time and we had picnics, and swimming parties and movies every night. Ya know, we didn’t have (laughter) televisions to sit around, because we had two movies. EC: Someone told me there were three here at one time. Entertainment in Bristow and Vacationing of those who lived there Branson ; Chamber of Commerce ; Eureka Springs ; Kemp's Drugstore ; KFRU ; OSU ; OU ; Roland Hotel ; Sports ; TU College Sports ; Country Club ; Entertainment ; Parties ; Sports ; Vacation 1992 World War II's Affect on Bristow KC: Yes, it did. EC: — on Bristow? KC: It closed down. EC: It closed down? KC: (Crying) Our son was killed in it. EC: Oh I am so sorry. KC: And the World War I had a very dramatic effect too. My husband’s mother was secretary of the Red Cross and everybody was— I wasn’t here at that time but I’ve heard of all, them— the only— the oldest club in Bristow, our embroidery club, which is still hanging on, gave up all their time to roll bandages and my husband and his brother were in the army. My husband was over in England for seven months, and— and it had— and I was at (Indecipherable) at that time, and so I was spotching Doves and baby Merritt’s and selling (Indecipherable) and everything of the kind. EC: Getting to more recent events, I forget it’s history. Making to say the last twenty-five years in Bristow, anything that has happened that you think is significant? World War II's Affect on Bristow's population and economy Army ; Baby Boom ; Cotton Gin ; England ; Red Cross ; Transcontinental ; Wilcox Refinery ; World War I ; World War II Baby Boom ; Bristow Population ; Economy ; World War I ; World War II 2355 Stories Of People and Places In Bristow EC: You mentioned earlier that some of what you knew about Bristow was stories your husband had told. Are there any particular stories that he told that come to mind? KC: A lot of his stories were about his very good friends, the Lebanese, Syrians they were then who came in, there were many Syrians here and you’ve heard of Joe Abraham? and his brother Ed Abraham and many of the stories were just fun stories about them. He liked them they were his very good friends, but they’re— they’re troubles with making— Joe Abraham— (indecipherable) isn’t that an awful name for an old man? EC: (Laughter) KC: When I, I don’t like saying, my husband, I can’t call him Mr. Corey, but— always liked people so much and he tried to help him teach, learn English and he was gonna learn Syrian but he found out that most the words that he was were not words (laughter) and many of the stories were about— just about the fun things that they said. EC: Had there been any spectacular scandals or finds or anything of that sort of kind in Bristow? Memories of People and Places in Bristow Baseball ; Boyce McMillian ; Bridge Club ; Chamber of Commerace ; Ed Abraham ; Episcopal Church ; Joe Abraham ; Lebanese ; Music Club ; Neva Gurley ; Presbyterian Church ; Syrians ; Theater Churches ; People of Bristow ; Scandals ; Teaching English In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family’s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920’s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II. Interviewer: Ed Cadenhead (EC) Interviewee: Kate B. Corey (KC) (1897-1996) Other Persons: None Date of Interview: Unknown Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0025B Side B at 00:00 to 39:08 Abstract: In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family' ; s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920' ; s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. KC: I' ; m Kate B. Corey, and I was reared in Western Oklahoma, but when I was married, came to Creek County in 1920, during the oil boom at Depew. A little town seven miles from here, and we lived there five years and then moved to Bristow. We have been here ever since. EC: Alright, and where was your husband from? KC: He was-- well he' ; s from-- he was born in Kansas, but he' ; d lived in Oklahoma-- Edmond and other places. His father was a railroad man and so he traveled up the Frisco Line and he was at two or three stations but had been here as I said since 1899. EC: Well why did you happen to move to Bristow? KC: Well, just because the boom was dying out over at-- the oil boom was dying out over at Depew, and then my husband' ; s father had a bank here and so he came over to do some work there and then he was working as-- in the (Indecipherable) until he lost his shirt. (Laughter from both) KC: -- right at the time that the banks were closing and-- and the--there were three banks of the five in Bristow that closed that year. EC: Which bank was your husband' ; s fathers? KC: The First State Bank. EC: The First State Bank. So the oil business was what got you here and almost did you in. KC: M-HM. It did us in. It was very good to my husband' ; s father, and to us for a while but it folded up like all oil business. EC: What was Bristow like in the oil boom days. KC: Well I really came here before the-- before the oil boom days. I forgot to say that I came here to teach when I was nineteen years' ; old. EC: Uh-huh. KC: -- and just taught ten weeks in the winter term as a sort of a substitute and it was always remembered the busy streets during the cotton season. You couldn' ; t go down the streets on paved streets because of the big cotton wagons, and the dust, and the crowds of people and that was-- that was all in 1916, so I have been here longer than I told you in the first place and then I went back to school and graduated and did not teach here anymore. EC: So you noticed the difference when you came the second time? KC: I really did because in the-- in the meantime the Oilfield Slick was open first and then the first time I came here that we were about to see the wells pouring over the top at Slick and it was just a booming, busy place and I loved the oil boom so much. The sound of the hammers and the dust and the horses, and the cussin' ; (Laughter) but, that was-- it must' ; ve been in 19-- oh I don' ; t know, 18 or 19. I' ; m not an authority on the times of the oil boom, but it had struck Oklahoma, it had struck Bristow-- it had moved in from Okmulgee and Slick and then on this way and when we were--let' ; s see, when we were married, just about that year 1919 I think it was, we were married 1920. But I think it was about 1919 just after the war was ending that they began drilling quite a bit out here and Bristow came along about 1920 or 21. I' ; m sure it was just a rounded off guess, but they said it had sixteen thousand people and it could easily of had, because every garage and barn and camp was filled with people and my husband was a gentlemen of the old school, he wouldn' ; t let me go to town at night. He went alone because there were so many dope heads and drunks and oilfield followers on the street and it was-- it was quite a life. EC: Someone told me that woman, that she didn' ; t like early day Bristow because she couldn' ; t go out. KC: M-HM. EC: -- and you had the same experience. KC: I had the same experience, at night. Went all the time in the day time, and we-- it was when we were-- we lived in Depew but we came over here almost every day because my husband' ; s parents lived here. We' ; d come over in the evening and when we' ; d go home, I would just take off my wedding ring and anything else I had of any value and hide it, and several times we' ; d go home just to find out that someone had been held up the night before-- EC: Oh. KC: -- and one night as we were driving home, a car turned in from a side road and followed us all the way just shooting up in the air and yelling at us, and when we tried to drive fast they did, and if we slowed they did. So my husband went to the, oh I guess the cuffs force-- somebody at Depew. There wasn' ; t any policeman, and report him and had him put in jail because he came into town. So long in the middle of the night, the phone rang and it was one of his friends and it was his casing crew who had been arrested. They had just had a little bit too much to drink and were just having a good time. Coming a long (Indecipherable) but it was as effective as if they' ; d really went (Indecipherable). Laughter. EC: Yes. Any other memories of those days? KC: Well-- EC: (Indecipherable) oil business KC: -- another time we were driving home and passed the place that we' ; d always called it a " ; Bootleggers Camp" ; and suddenly we stopped because a woman was lying right across the road and a man stepped out to attend and he said, " ; I have one down here, would you help me get her inside?" ; So my husband stepped out, and just as he did, she stepped up and grabbed the whiskey bottle and in no uncertain oilfield terms told him just exactly what he was. (Laughter) EC: Oh my! KC: -- and what the man was, because he left her there to run that shack all afternoon, and I think she must have drunk all the contents. EC: (Laughter) Wow. How-- you said the (Indecipherable) of a boom is a big up and a down. KC: M-HM. EC: Well was the down as fast as the up? KC: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t believe it was, but the down was accelerated probably by the general economy. There were several years of crop failures and the depression really hit Bristow before 1929, and whether it was a result of the overcrowding and the great expectations, and all the money that was made and then when they found out that the field wasn' ; t as big and as permanent, that left unemployed people here. Would be my, it' ; s my way of saying-- EC: You say three of five banks went broke? KC: Yes, M-HM. EC: You remember which-- what the names of them were? KC: No, I remember-- let' ; s see. I don' ; t even remember the names of the other banks. There were the American national and the First State. EC: Well were there any-- KC: I really don' ; t remember? EC: --were there any major failures for individuals because of the bank failures. KC: Well my husband' ; s father, because he had the-- he was the active vice president and the president was, maybe you better turn that off (Laughter). The president was informed of drilling some dry holes. EC: With bank money? KC: It was bank money-- EC: Oh. KC: --and that really brought on the failure of that bank, before the general bank failures, and Dad Corey thought that, well he just felt responsibility for the people. His friends who had put their money into the bank, so he paid them out of his own money. EC: When did you start teaching school here? KC: Well-- EC: The second time. KC: --the second time I started, in 1930. I had-- we had two older children and when they were about seven and eight there was another one and he was born just a few weeks after the October 29th crash and my husband was-- he had multiple skin cancers and in depression times it was just better for him to go to the veteran' ; s hospital, and the nearest one was Chicago, and so he-- and they wouldn' ; t, they' ; d treat him and then he had to stay there until he was dismissed. So, he would wood work when he was out, but that would take a month or two out of six months every once in a while. He' ; d had over-- already had an overdose of radiation. Guinea pig for a (Indecipherable) EC: What was the school system like? KC: Well, it was pretty great, it was the best school I ever was in. Including the later years. The CH Black his name was there, was the head of the school system, superintendent and he was, he was considered a slave driver by many people. But he was alright as long as, as teachers did what they were asked to do, and I found him very well. It was pleasant working for him because he accomplished much. Bristow had a reputation of having one of the best schools in the state and for instance, one year the freshmen-- in the freshmen class at both OU and Stillwater, Bristow High School received the trophies for highest grade point averages of freshmen in school. Which spoke very well for them and there was a-- a very strong faculty of dedicated teachers and with Mr. Black there if you didn' ; t get-- if you weren' ; t dedicated you became dedicated or you didn' ; t stay. EC: How long did you continue to teach? KC: I taught from 1930 to 1961. EC: Schools stayed as good? KC: Well you know they-- there were a lot of things that mattered into it, the times mainly I think. They were always-- I think they were always higher than average but to-- they didn' ; t have quite the reputation, but you know it-- it became just a little bit more difficult to teach and a little bit more difficult to accomplish anything and I think, well when the World War II came in we' ; d had a very strong junior college, small but a good junior college and it almost died out with the-- when so many of the students left to go to the different branches of the service and then when it was started again, oh about 1945 or something. I don' ; t know these dates are just off the top of my head. It was reorganized and it didn' ; t last very long. For one thing, it wasn' ; t supported as much by the superintendent at that time and-- and people had more money and more of em' ; were able to send their children to larger schools, but each of our three children-- two of em' ; during the first good times of the junior college and then one later in 1947 or 8 or something like that, had one year of junior college and I thought it was the greatest asset to a small town-- EC: Where was it located? KC: It was in the high school building, and it was separate from the high school as far as the discipline and the hours and we tried to make as much of a college out of it as possible, but the high school teachers taught the subjects and I don' ; t know-- I don' ; t remember how many hours were given, but enough that in two years they can get what would' ; ve been an Associate of Arts degree. EC: Were there any problems in Bristow over the years that you can remember? Worth telling about. KC: This isn' ; t a problem, but another thing in regards to schools. During the NYA, the National Youth Administration, we had a school here in that building out at the park. It is now called the Farm Center. It was a dormitory. It wasn' ; t built for that, but it was made into a dormitory for the NYA and Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt came here to the dedication of it and the students were from this area, but they contributed a lot to the success of the junior college in numbers and all that. There were never any very startling times to me, now I remember my husband telling about the Crazy Snake Uprising. EC: What do you remember of that? KC: I don' ; t remember anything about it-- EC: You remember what he told-- KC: I remember what he told. Well that the Indians were encamped somewhere out in the country from here, and there were-- I may not be telling this, this just may be one of those heresy, and it is a heresy report, but it' ; s interesting he said it started because the Indians thought that someone in a general store in Bristow was charging them more than they charged-- they charged the white people and my husband' ; s father as I said was deployed and so a message came to round up all the deputies here in the area and his older brother got on a horse and rode down to country with the telegrams, and it was quite exciting times because they could hear the songs and the tom-toms and all the uproar at the encampment. EC: M-HM. KC: And that-- I' ; d really have to go to a history book to find. (Laughter) (Indecipherable) EC: Speaking of Indians, has there been a good mix of Indian and White in Bristow, or was there discrimination? KC: I' ; ve never thought that there was any discrimination. In high school we didn' ; t have a very high percentage of Indians, but we always had some and I' ; m sure they were accepted probably for football (Indecipherable) You know that' ; s the biggest integrator in the world, and there were several who were very artistic and generally good students and if they ever felt any discrimination, I don' ; t know anything about it, but this just occurs to me, has anyone suggested that you talk to Mrs. Lucinda Johnson? EC: I don' ; t think so. KC: Or Majel Frye? EC: That name sounds familiar. KC: Well Mrs. Johnson is Majel Frye' ; s mother, and she was born here. She' ; s the daughter of a white man named Jess Allen (PH) and his wife had her allotment out on the road to Slick. I' ; d say halfway between here and Slick and the house is still out there where-- where her father lived, but Mrs. Allen now lives-- oh her name is Johnson, her name is now Johnson. She was married again. In fact, her maiden name was Allen, and she now lives over near Slick but she comes to Bristow almost every day because her son lives in the nursing home here and she just spends a lot of her time here and I-- I' ; ve heard my husband tell about when he was, he was a few years older than she, several years I expect, but her father would bring her and her sister to the railway station to send them to a Catholic school at Sapulpa. They didn' ; t (Indecipherable) and I' ; m sure she would, she might remember a lot of things that would be very helpful. EC: I have seen of things like that. I have read and heard about the Black population of Bristow that lived in what I guess was Lincoln Heights-- KC: Yes-- EC: -- and was moved. KC: M-HM EC: I don' ; t understand who moved em' ; and how do you move em' ; ? KC: Well, now Lincoln heights was right up here, and the black neighborhood is over, oh six blocks I guess. Just down north of here, six or eight blocks, and they-- there was a black neighborhood out there and then this Lincoln Heights area. I can' ; t speak with any voice of authority. I think it belonged to Mumford McGee (PH) that the land belonged to Mumford McGee (PH) and that (Indecipherable) sold and then he-- he opened-- this is a housing development and the Negros were not allowed to lived here, but some of them kept their houses. Even as far as two or three blocks north than the new high school building, where the new high school building is. Have you-- you' ; ve seen that haven' ; t you? EC: Yes, I have. KC: Well, between that area and west of there. EC: Have there been any racial problems in Bristow over the years. KC: No, not that I know of. I was trying to connect it with-- I was thinking really of the Tulsa, but there wasn' ; t anything like that, and it was always said that integration was carried on very peacefully and easily here and I was teaching at the time that we were integrated and we had-- we spent the year before trying to get the students and the teachers to, and I was one of them (laughter) into the mood of acceptance of em' ; , and I heard the superintendent say several times, how smooth integration was for us and how easily it was accomplished, but I always felt just a little bit of sadness about it. Not for the whites but for the Negros, because they had an ideal in school that they' ; re with their own debate clubs, and wonderful chorus, and basketball teams and everything of the kind. Well when, and they have again taken their place as leaders in athletics, but when they-- the first years-- the first year to that they moved to high school, just frankly I' ; d look up and I' ; d think well what are you doing it over here, but after I, I was counselor and after I had worked with em' ; for a year or so it just changed me so completely. When I could see the problems they were having and the struggles that they had to do anything. You see the white teachers-- the Negro teachers were all dismissed and several families who had-- whose children had been leaders in the-- what did they call that school? Lincoln High School, came over to high school and they were too new to it to find their place in the high school, and I think we definitely tried to, but really one reason integration was so successful and so many of them simply dropped out of school. EC: M-HM KC: And I think, I don' ; t think that' ; s the case now. I think, I expect there' ; s high percentage in the Negros graduating according to the number who enter as whites, and they seem more and more to be getting meeting places back to presidents and student council last year with the negro, Bill Mitchell a veterinarian' ; s son and he' ; s a fine student. EC: Going back in time, thinking back to the--your-- the 1920' ; s when you first married, what was life like in Bristow? What did you do for entertainment? KC: Oh! We had-- it was great! (Laughter) For the women it was bridge clubs and the town was-- had grown so fast and we were in the habit of inviting everybody that we knew to the bridge club ya know? Well as more people came in, we still invite em' ; and it-- it wasn' ; t anything unusual to have a bridge party of fourteen to twenty tables and we moved out everything but the beds and the kitchen stove to have em' ; . Everyone dressed up in their best dress and we wore our hats and kept em' ; on all the time that we were playing and it was an occasion to use the best china and the silver and the-- and the linen cloths and it was so easy because you could have em' ; made four dollars a week. EC: M-HM KC: And, that was great, and for a while long in those boom days the-- we had dances and-- EC: Where did you have them? KC: At the, oh in the-- at the country club. I think it was built, it was built about 1923 or 25 and the Roland Hotel had a (Indecipherable) and you' ; ve heard of the (Indecipherable) KFRU the-- EC: Yes, I have. KC: --the radio station, and the men wore their tuxes and it was just a very great life. There was a, my husband was one of the charter members of the golf country club, the country club and played golf all the time and we had picnics, and swimming parties and movies every night. Ya know, we didn' ; t have (laughter) televisions to sit around, because we had two movies. EC: Someone told me there were three here at one time. KC: There were! Just as I said that, there were three but there were-- one was about where, long about where Kemp' ; s Drugstore is, not entirely and another one down about where the Chamber of Commerce, right in that area. Now another one across the street and as soon--as soon as the roads were-- they didn' ; t even have to be very acceptable, we got up to Tulsa to The Opera and baseball games and always went to all the football games at OSU who had such a good pick of teams and at OU and at TU. My husband was in for all kinds of sports, and so for a long time he went alone while the children were little and then I began going with him and we had season tickets at OU and OSU for the last years (Indecipherable) EC: Were than any particular vacation spots that people in Bristow used? Did people take vacations in the 40' ; s? KC: Yes. Well up in Missouri around Branson-- EC: M-HM KC: --and, Eureka Springs, and I can' ; t even remember the names of the place, and then we made trips to Canada. My husband' ; s father was very fortunate in some of his land he owned and had five producing wells on it at one time. So we were the typical new rich, it didn' ; t last long but it was fun while it lasted. (Laughter) EC: Did World War II have any dramatic effect-- KC: Yes, it did. EC: -- on Bristow? KC: It closed down. EC: It closed down? KC: (Crying) Our son was killed in it. EC: Oh I am so sorry. KC: And the World War I had a very dramatic effect too. My husband' ; s mother was secretary of the Red Cross and everybody was-- I wasn' ; t here at that time but I' ; ve heard of all, them-- the only-- the oldest club in Bristow, our embroidery club, which is still hanging on, gave up all their time to roll bandages and my husband and his brother were in the army. My husband was over in England for seven months, and-- and it had-- and I was at (Indecipherable) at that time, and so I was spotching Doves and baby Merritt' ; s and selling (Indecipherable) and everything of the kind. EC: Getting to more recent events, I forget it' ; s history. Making to say the last twenty-five years in Bristow, anything that has happened that you think is significant? KC: Now ya know, Bristow dwindled from that sixteen or seventeen thousand to about-- well we always had a sign up by the turnpike that said population seven thousand but it really since didn' ; t show it that way, and for years there was no building, it was just-- it held-- it stayed alive. I guess that would be the best way to put it and they-- I think that the school population was always, remained about the same until the last four or five years. That' ; s just common I think everywhere with the-- with the end of the Baby Boom, and Bristow had-- it suffered a lot in the depression and really never did come back to itself. There were at one time-- there were several refineries here. The Transcontinental one' ; s the big one, and the Wilcox refinery. (Inaudible) maybe there was just two and they finally closed. They ya know, there were cotton gins. There were five cotton gins at Depew. I don' ; t know how many were here, and with the-- when they quit farming, well there were none. There' ; s a great-- for a while, peanuts were the-- you know this was the peanut capital of the world. Do you know the-- oh I don' ; t know that it was a law, but anyway something was passed making it mandatory to serve peanuts to every café customer and that big building down-- big empty big storage building was the peanut storage place and that helped it a little bit. The economy and I think all of it, Bristow was always a very good place to live but not a very good place to make a living and that was-- that' ; s what happened to our children, that they would' ; ve liked so much to stay here but unless you were one of the half dozen oilers who could make a living here or a merchant and so our children all left. EC: You mentioned earlier that some of what you knew about Bristow was stories your husband had told. Are there any particular stories that he told that come to mind? KC: A lot of his stories were about his very good friends, the Lebanese, Syrians they were then who came in, there were many Syrians here and you' ; ve heard of Joe Abraham? and his brother Ed Abraham and many of the stories were just fun stories about them. He liked them they were his very good friends, but they' ; re-- they' ; re troubles with making-- Joe Abraham-- (indecipherable) isn' ; t that an awful name for an old man? EC: (Laughter) KC: When I, I don' ; t like saying, my husband, I can' ; t call him Mr. Corey, but-- always liked people so much and he tried to help him teach, learn English and he was gonna learn Syrian but he found out that most the words that he was were not words (laughter) and many of the stories were about-- just about the fun things that they said. EC: Had there been any spectacular scandals or finds or anything of that sort of kind in Bristow? KC: No, I don' ; t know if they have. There' ; s something I was going to say, and what was it? I think that Bristow would be described better as a-- as a very-- other people, everybody might not feel it this way but I' ; ve felt that it was a very close knit family, and many of the people who came here, and settled in were from Missouri and south, down especially Mississippi. The Jones family came here Boyce McMillian' ; s (PH) husband' ; s relatives and were at Drumright, made their first money over there, and they-- and they and the-- they kind of set the tone for (indecipherable) I don' ; t know that it' ; s always been a place of great culture but many of the people who were here had a culture background and they kept em' ; developing it and had been responsible. Now way back during the, let me see, after the it was the twenty-five to the thirties and very good music club a little theatre. (Indecipherable) Bridge Club, (laughter) baseball teams, football, tennis then and it died out and came back in a big way. If there' ; s-- if Bristow has had anything really startling or exciting, I don' ; t know what it was. We built this house in 1940 and it was one of three or four houses built in that many years. There just wasn' ; t any there. There were two or three little houses over on second street that were built a little bit after we built this one and-- and then for a period of five, ten years or so. I don' ; t think anybody ever felt-- anybody who lived in Bristow and-- and was a chamber of commerce spirit felt that we were any worse off for the slowness of it. EC: Which-- which buildings in Bristow today, as far as you know are the oldest ones? KC: Well, a little brick build-- a little brick house over on fourth street is one of the oldest. There were either two or I think probably three of those brick houses together and the others or other one demolished-- was demolished last, oh in the last year or two and I thought that that little brick house was made of the bricks that were, made out of a brick factory that was here near the-- out by the--over there across the railroad tracks and a little bit further-- EC: You have any idea who built this house? KC: No, I don' ; t-- (indecipherable) would' ; ve known all about that, but I just don' ; t know. EC: Any other house or buildings-- KC: Well, I think they-- you' ; ve probably heard this, but the-- probably the oldest church in town in the little Christian science church. That was built by where the Episcopal church, then was used after they-- there weren' ; t enough Episcopalians here and the Presbyterian church leased it or did something for a while. It' ; s on the corner of, I believe eighth and Elm. Pretty little church and then they-- Oh let me tell you somebody else. Do you have Neva Gurley' ; s (PH) name on that? EC: I don' ; t. KC: Hmm. Well you (inaudible) End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml
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Kate Corey
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In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family’s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920’s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II.
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OHP-0025-02
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Oral History
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Wanda Newton
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Corwin Henkins
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5.4 OHP-0024-02 Corwin Henkins OHP-0024-02 0:00-42:10 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Corwin Henkins Wanda Newton MP3 1:|89(11)|126(4)|145(9)|179(15)|227(4)|279(15)|309(2)|359(16)|418(2)|461(15)|514(4)|553(8)|606(16)|651(4)|695(6)|723(8)|750(1)|795(7)|837(9)|877(14)|899(2)|927(3)|955(15)|985(12)|1015(4)|1073(12)|1089(4)|1125(4)|1177(7)|1199(5)|1222(8)|1255(1)|1281(3)|1311(5)|1339(13)|1368(4)|1393(12)|1427(2)|1468(1)|1497(3)|1547(9)|1610(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0024 Henkins, Corwin.mp3 Other audio 589 Family Background and Life in Bristow WN: Ed Fox and— Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe— WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don’t ask me, you’re giving me information— I don’t know. CH: I think that’s right. I’m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that— CH: and uh— WN: —and you said you’d knew my mother— Family background and the early days of Bristow Albert Kelly ; Bob Williams ; Bristow ; Chandler ; Cherokee ; Civil War ; Corwin Henkins ; Cotton ; Creeco Mill ; Dysentery ; Ed Fox ; Klingensmith ; Kremlin ; Lucy West ; Nelly Strain ; Orva Henkins ; Prairie Grove ; Sapulpa ; Seneca ; Stroud ; Train ; Tulsa Civil War ; Early Bristow ; Family History https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Waneuma Earlene " ; Wanda" ; Newton's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13027907/edward-b.-fox Edward B. Fox's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7525025/corwin-thacker-henkins Corwin Thacker Henkins's Grave 885 School Day's WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don’t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my— the sister Orva’s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to— WN: (Laughter) CH: —whether I needed it or not— WN: Just for a good example— CH: —so the rest of em’ wouldn’t think she’s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her— Basketball ; Blackwell ; Charlie Pickett ; Daniel Boone ; Football ; Neva Carmen ; School house ; Washington School Classmates ; School Days ; School Sports ; Teachers 1212 Crops and Old Bristow Businesses WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That’s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids— or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty— whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That’s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton— WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you’d go to that main street, and you couldn’t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! Which crops were most common and Memorable Businesses Boardwalks ; Brownsville ; Bullington ; Civil War Pension ; Cotton ; First National Bank ; Frisco Depot ; Halliburton ; Ice Plant ; Livery Stable ; Maroon's ; Millinery ; Oilfield Buisnesses ; Crops In Bristow 1357 The Flu Epidemic, and Doc King WN: You don’t remember that. Is there— well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came— CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up— there was people— I’d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em’ on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building— what’s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth— second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that— WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I’m pretty sure that King (PH) and— I know King (PH) was here and I think— WN: How about Schrader (PH) or— CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he— CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my— The Flu Epidemic ; How and Who treated it Birth Certificate ; Coppedge ; Deep Fork Slugs ; Doc King ; Flu Epidemic ; Midwife ; Ray Mars ; Schrader Flu Epidemic ; Medical 1468 Weddings, Indians and The Law Men 1473 Brick Streets and Childhood Entertainment WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn’t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets— CH: Yeah, bricked em’. M-HM, yeah. WN: —and how long did it take em’? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don’t have any idea on that. EF: Didn’t you say one man— colored man laid most of the bricks— CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I— I’d as a kid just go down there and watch em’. I don’t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must’ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it’d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? Where Did the Bricked Streets Come From and What did Children in Bristow do for Fun? Brick Streets ; Paved Streets ; Railroad ; Railroad Tracks ; Roller Skate ; Social Life ; Wagon Bricked Streets ; Childhood ; Childhood Games ; Entertainment 1675 Weddings, Lumber, Pipelines and Jessie Allen WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember— can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the— well wait a minute, let’s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn’t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours’ time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know— lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or— Weddings and The Story of Jessie Allen and the Pipeline Crew Bacone ; Federal Marshals ; Jessie Allen ; Lee Johnson ; Lumber Yard ; Pipeline ; Police Officers ; Shivaree ; Wedding ; Yuchi Indians High School Indians ; Law ; Lumber ; Pipeline ; Weddings 1810 High School Sports and The Saint Louis Cardinals CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite— WN: Yes. CH: —an announcer for— WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn’t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the— if it hadn’t been for sports he’d of starved to death. He couldn’t do nothing else— WN: (Laughter) CH: —he wasn’t fit for nothing. Never done a day’s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news— CH: Yes, he did. WN: — in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any— France Laux and The Saint Louis Cardinals, Snakes and Confusion in the Stadium Cardinals ; Football ; France Laux ; Mr. Purdy ; Saint Louis Cardinals ; Snake Indians Football ; Snake Indians ; Sports Stadium https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153710693/france-laux France Laux's Grave 1973 World War I and Dedicated Parks WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that— how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I— I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn’t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him— I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, “I want to go anyway.” and he said, “Well we’ll send you” and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well— CH: They had— they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid’s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that— WN: But do you— do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock— WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That— CH: Oh did the tear it out? World War I, Soldiers, and Parks Dedicated to Them Boy Scouts ; Clad Purdy ; Dr. Schrader ; Gene Wrine ; Klingensmith Park ; National Guard ; World War I Dedication ; Parks ; World War I N 35° 49.972 W 096° 24.045 17 Klingensmith Park https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMZX9M_Klingensmith_Park_Bristow_OK Klingensmith Park 2535 Radio, The Abraham's, Opera House and Other Gems of Bristow WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920’s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn’t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I’ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here— WN: Oh. EF: — in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had— I had— when let’s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What’d they call it? KOX? K— first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn’t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that’s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the— what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. Memories of People, Places and Activities in Bristow Abraham Building ; Chrystal Set ; Cole Park ; Cotton Gin ; Depew ; Dr. Harse ; Ed Abraham ; EE Mounds ; EH Mount ; Flappers ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; HL House's Hardware ; Joe Abraham ; John D. Rockefeller ; KVOO ; Nichols ; Oil Boom ; Roland Hotel ; Statehood ; Territorial Enterprise ; The Record ; Uphus Abraham Building ; Buisnesses ; Radio 35° 50.003′ N, 96° 23.437′ W 17 Abraham Building https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92445965/william-c.-newton William C. " ; Bill" ; Newton's Grave In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Interviewer: Wanda Newton (WN) Interviewee: Corwin Henkins (CH) (1899-1999) Other Persons: Edward Fox (EF), Bill Newton (BN) Date of Interview: March 16th 1990 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0024 Side A and Side B 00:00 to 42:10 Abstract: In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father' ; s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. WN: Ed Fox and-- Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe-- WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don' ; t ask me, you' ; re giving me information-- I don' ; t know. CH: I think that' ; s right. I' ; m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that-- CH: and uh-- WN: --and you said you' ; d knew my mother-- CH: Yeah. WN: --too? Nelly (PH)? Nelly Strain (PH). CH: And, I especially knew one of her brothers and I can' ; t remember which one it was-- WN: Well it was Walter (PH) I presume-- CH: --Was Walter (PH) a-- WN: --A wrestler-- CH: --A wrestler, that' ; s-- WN: --he and Bob Williams (PH). CH: That' ; s-- I told you-- WN: (Laughter) WN: I asked her. I asked him coming over if-- if she was kin to Bob Williams (PH) and he said no. Wasn' ; t though-- WN: No but they were good friends, see. CH: Well that' ; s the connection there. WN: Yeah. CH: Just friends. WN: Uh-- now first of all, I want to say this is March the 17th 1990. We are going to use this in our library for future historical reference, so I want to be sure-- EF: How about 16th? WN: Is it the 16th? Oh gah, I' ; m always a day back or forward or something. (Laughter from all) WN: Okay, now tell me Mr. Henkins when were you born? The month, the day and the year. CH: May the 1st 1899. WN: That was my father' ; s birthday! His was May 1st 1891. CH: 91? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. Okay, now then can you tell me a little bit about your parents and your grandparents? CH: Well, my father and mother moved here in 1902, to Bristow-- WN: To Bristow. CH: -- and I' ; ll tell you this if you want to know it. Dad come down ahead of time on the train. He stopped Tulsa, Sapulpa, Bristow, Stroud and Chandler. Got off the train, walked out to residents some place, asked whoever answered the door for a drink of water. What he was hunting was good drinking water. He didn' ; t care nothing about the size of the town or anything, he wanted good water. Everything was out of a well you see, there wasn' ; t any running water any place. Bristow had the best water and that' ; s the reason he decided-- WN: Oh well! CH: --On Bristow. WN: Well that' ; s exciting to know. Do you know anything at all about your grandparents? CH: Not very much. WN: Not very much. Don' ; t have any idea where they came from? CH: Oh yeah, they-- my grandfather came from Pennsylvania. He settled in North Missouri and not on my father' ; s side, on my mother' ; s side I know very little about em' ; other than they was bout' ; fifty miles east of Kansas City. WN: Well now, can you tell me any-- CH: My dad was in the Civil War. UI: Oh yes! I wanna know. You know that for sure? CH: I know it for sure because I drew a Civil War pen-- I have a (Indecipherable) of that. I drew a Civil War pension and I-- not many people my age. They say that they think you' ; re crazy-- WN: (Laughter) CH: -- and I was about nine years old when my dad died, and my mother drew twenty-seven dollars a month. I drew three dollars a month until I was eighteen years old-- WN: Well how exciting. CH: -- and that was supposed to buy my school books. WN: Well do you remember-- did your father ever tell you any Civil War tales or anything? Any adventures he had? CH: Well there' ; s one-- EF: you tell-- CH: --about the brother? EF: No, go ahead and tell that one and then I' ; ll-- remind me-- CH: Back then they was North Missouri and Missouri was right along the line, it didn' ; t care-- the young boys didn' ; t care which side of the war they was on. Everybody else was going to war and they wanted to join. Well, one of my brothers-- my father' ; s brothers joined the South and my dad joined the North. And they know that they was in one battle together. Same place and it was-- you' ; ll know-- EF: Against each other in one battle-- CH: You oughta know the name of the-- WN: Was it-- (Talking at the same time) WN: -- Prairie Grove? CH: It' ; s Arkansas. EF: It was out of Prairie Grove. CH: Yeah in there somewhere. Anyway, here is the part about us. My dad came home ; the brother never did. WN: Oh-- CH: They don' ; t know-- WN: What happened. CH: --what happened, see. WN: That' ; s sad. Yeah, that' ; s sad. CH: Could be that my dad shot his own brother. WN: (Laughter) CH: (Indecipherable) trying to say-- WN: Yeah. CH: That' ; s possible, not at all likely-- EF: And down at (Indecipherable) River in Tennessee, wasn' ; t it that he won an award and he made that pipe? I still got it-- CH: Oh yeah. Yeah-- EF: And there' ; s the (Indecipherable) out of the (Indecipherable). WN: Oh really? EF: He didn' ; t set it in the pipe. CH: He' ; s-- he' ; s-- he' ; s-- EF: I' ; ve got it and-- CH: -- He' ; s got the pipe-- WN: Well you have the history of the-- CH: Great-- EF: Well no, I just got it all up here. WN: Well you-- CH: Well now, he' ; s got the-- he' ; s got the old papers of my dad' ; s-- where they went to while they was in the-- EF: Yeah. CH: --in the-- WN: and his discharge papers and everything? CH: Yeah-- EF: (Indecipherable) WN: Yeah, yeah M-HM, they did. Well-- well tell me, how did your parents get to Oklahoma. Did they make the run originally-- CH: They made the-- yeah. Now they made the run. The one up-- would that be the Cherokee? WN: Well it could be. CH: I guess. Anyways that' ; s no connection with em' ; coming to Bristow. They made that and sailed north of Enid, in there some place. I didn' ; t know the name of the town-- WN: Yeah-- EF: Kremlin! It seemed like a name of Kremlin comes-- CH: Kremlin' ; s it-- EF: Okay. CH: --That' ; s the closest town and they liked to starve to death picking up bones and-- WN: That' ; s what my grandfather did. CH: --and selling em' ; , so they went back to Missouri. WN: Uh-huh. CH: and then later on, see I wasn' ; t born then. That was in-- WN: 1889? CH: 80-- 89? WN: Or 91? CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. WN: Yeah, okay. CH: One of em' ; . It was-- it was that particular run up there then another run in Oklahoma City. This is what-- I think they called it-- I don' ; t know. Cherokee I believe. WN: Okay. CH: Anyway, they made that and my father and mother and my mother' ; s brother, which was single, and my mother' ; s sister which was not married, and then the half-brother of mine all made the run together and they all settled on the-- what is it six hundred and forty? EF: Section probably. CH: Section-- EF: (Inaudible) CH: They cornered and they built-- they built one nice house. My mother cooked for all of em' ; . They built a little shack on the other four to (Indecipherable) WN: Yes, so they can-- CH: All right here in the corner. WN: -- declare their homestead. Do you remember any outstanding things that happened to you as a child while you were in that area? CH: See I wasn' ; t there-- WN: You weren' ; t there? CH: I wasn' ; t born yet. That was before I was born. This run and settlement. It was in 89 wasn' ; t it? WN: There was one in 18-- CH: That' ; s the one they made, the 89 run-- WN: The 89-- CH: --see I wasn' ; t born til' ; 99, ten years later-- WN: Yeah. CH: --but my two sisters, Orva-- you might-- WN: Well I remember my mother, Orva Hinkle (PH)-- CH: Yeah-- WN: My father-- EF: Orva Henkins. WN: Well, Henkins-- I knew it was-- CH: Well now she made this run with us and his mother made it. See his mother and this Orva were sisters-- WN: Sisters? CH: --and his mother was the-- one of the two first school teachers in this town. WN: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- CH: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- EF: They taught at different schools, I think-- CH: No, taught at the same schools! -- EF: Same school? CH: --This old church building right down here on-- right by the railroad track. It' ; s not there now-- EF: At ninth, I think. CH: Yeah, pretty close to where that-- EF: Creeco Mill? CH: Where they shelled peanuts, I mean-- WN: Oh-- CH: Pecans. WN: Pecans, down at the Creeco Mill-- EF: Creeco Mill. CH: Yeah. WN: and there was a church there-- CH: An old church there and that' ; s where they held school. WN: Well let me ask you, did your mother and father farm while they were in Bristow or what did they do-- CH: He was a carpenter. WN: He was a carpenter, and you attended-- CH: My mother was a milliner. That' ; s what they called-- made the hats back then-- WN: Yes! I-- did she sell her shop to Mrs. Klingensmith (PH) or-- CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) were together-- WN: Were together? I-- CH: Yeah. WN: --have been looking in some older newspapers-- CH: (Indecipherable) WN: --and I saw this ad-- I saw a little thing in the news-- early newspaper down there, where that she bought in with Ms. Klingingsmith (PH) or something. CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) went in together. EF: Uh, I-- WN: and their ad had (Indecipherable). CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. Had what? WN: Had-- no had Henkins-- EF: Henkins. WN: Henkins. CH: I don' ; t remember that part now-- EF: I got something that-- he can verify this. My grandmother went out in the cotton field cause they just had houses and all of the town was cotton fields and didn' ; t she find, Albert Kelly SR. out there with Dysentery so bad and doctored em' ; back to health. CH: Well you-- you' ; ve got me on who it was but I can remember the story about her finding somebody-- EF: Yeah. Well that' ; s what I hear but-- WN: Albert Kelly SR.? EF: M-HM WN: Well that' ; s interesting to know-- CH: Now, I know we knew Albert Kelly-- EF: Yeah I know that, but-- CH: I worked for him in the grocery store-- EF: --you or someone told me it was Albert, but I don' ; t know-- WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don' ; t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my-- the sister Orva' ; s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --whether I needed it or not-- WN: Just for a good example-- CH: --so the rest of em' ; wouldn' ; t think she' ; s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I don' ; t remember too well, been years-- cause that' ; s a lot-- we' ; re talking bout' ; a lot of years. WN: That' ; s right. CH: See, I left here in 1927. WN: Well I was seven years old when you left then-- CH: And that' ; s the last time I ever remember even seeing your mother, would be then. Oh I might' ; ve seen her on the street maybe coming back through or something-- WN: But-- CH: -- I seen your dad occasionally. WN: Yes. Well let me ask you, how far did you get in school? CH: Finished high school. WN: You finished high school. Where was the high school at that time? Did you finish it here? CH: Over on first street. WN: On first street. Where the Washington School is now? CH: That' ; d be the Washington-- EF: Across from mother and them over there? CH: Yeah. EF: Was that the high school? CH: Yeah. EF: I' ; m learning something. CH: Yeah, a two story high school-- WN: Well, I think-- I keep thinking that those steps over there that are leading up to that wall there, were the steps to the original high school. I wish you' ; d look at em' ; when you take me home. CH: I don' ; t much believe so. I believe-- WN: You don' ; t think they are? CH: I believe it' ; s set back a ways-- the school. It was two story, I remember that. WN: Yes, I remember a picture mother had of it and I remember her saying that the High School yell for the basketball team was, " ; booma' ; like a chicka' ; lika' ; who are we? We' ; re the girls of BIT" ; or (Indecipherable) CH: When did your mother-- your mother graduated from High School here? WN: I guess-- I know my aunt Mabel (PH) did, yes I' ; m sure my-- CH: What year? WN: -- now why would you ask me that? (Laughter) CH: I was just wondered if it was anywhere close to-- I graduated for the-- with a whole slug of Carmens (PH). WN: Well now, I' ; m sure it was in the paper down there. You were on one of the first-- CH: (Indecipherable) Carmen (PH) was in our-- my class and Neva Carmen (PH)-- EF: Neva (PH). Yeah. CH: -- and uh-- WN: You were an-- CH: Gladys (PH) WN: --early football player there. CH: What? WN: You were an early football player-- CH: I was. Played on the first football team Bristow ever had with a coach. WN: With a coach. CH: 1917. WN: Well that' ; s interesting-- CH: -- and I don' ; t know of any of em' ; to my knowledge that' ; s still alive but one, Charlie Pickett (PH). He lived in-- EF: Blackwell. CH: Blackwell, Oklahoma. EF: Nursing home. CH: He' ; s in a nursing home. WN: Well, can you remember how many people graduated from your class? CH: Wasn' ; t too many, I know that. EF: He played with (Indecipherable)-- CH: I think in that book-- who' ; s got that book? EF: Joe Ihle had it. I gave it to him, he' ; s supposed to-- CH: That Orva made-- WN: He' ; s taking good care of it, huh? EF: I don' ; t know, he better. WN: (Laughter) CH: She-- my sister, Orva made me a book and she called it-- what was it? Purple and gold. That' ; s when they first had the first colors, purple and gold. A football career-- EF: Yeah. CH: --and there' ; s a bunch of pictures in it. You haven' ; t seen it? WN: No, I haven' ; t seen it-- CH: I gave it to him, he oughta bring it out and let her see it-- EF: Well, I don' ; t have it right now. WN: Well, they' ; re trying to work out some kind of a thing for this big reunion and they' ; re trying to get all the historical things together and they' ; re getting some pictures made off of some of the things like you all-- CH: I give it to him and told him I didn' ; t care what they done with it. I was real proud of it. It' ; s got all the old football players from-- WN: Oh! CH: --from the very first foot-- high school football team and the first coach they ever had clear up until 1950-- EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it as coach of something. CH: Huh? EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it. Corey (PH)! CH: (Indecipherable) Corey (PH)? EF: Yeah! CH: I think that was connected with-- EF: Baseball. CH: Baseball, yeah. WN: Well I' ; ll tell you, they' ; ll put it in acid proof things, so that nothing will happen to it. Whatever, you know whatever it be-- CH: I told him I don' ; t care what happens to it, only I no one' ; s just shoved back on the corner. He' ; d just well keep it at his own house-- WN: That' ; s right. CH: If he' ; s gonna do that with it. WN: Well I think they' ; re planning on that-- CH: It' ; s got a lot of pictures in it. One picture-- one teacher I went to school with, probably a lot of people don' ; t know that. Maybe some of the kids went to school with her. Right over there at that high school, she was Daniel Boone' ; s (PH) great-great granddaughter. WN: Oh. CH: Taught school here as Mrs. Boone (PH). WN: Mrs. Boone (PH). CH: Miss Boone (PH)! WN: Oh Miss Boone (PH). Oh, okay. Well now let me ask you, how far did you live from the school? Do you remember how you-- how you got to school-- CH: About two blocks. Walked. WN: Oh you walked then. So you didn' ; t-- CH: Now that was a grade school then, wasn' ; t it? EF: Well, don' ; t ask me! WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That' ; s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids-- or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty-- whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That' ; s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton-- WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you' ; d go to that main street, and you couldn' ; t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! WN: Someone said there was a livery stable right bout' ; in the middle of-- CH: There was. EF: He worked for it some. CH: It caught fire one time and a bunch of horses burned up in it, I remember that. Right-- the livery stable was pretty close to where-- it was either where the First National Bank is now, or one block south of that. Right in there. WN: Well now, do you remember the Frisco Depot being in the center of sixth street there? Do you remember when it was in-- CH: Where is it now? WN: It' ; s moved over between sixth and seventh now, but it was at one time supposedly out in the middle of sixth street and they moved it. CH: You got me there. WN: You don' ; t remember that, okay. Did you ever work at any of the fields out? Did you ever when you were young do any of the oilfield work? CH: Oh yeah I taught everyone oilfield work. I went (Indecipherable) -- EF: Well he was out there when Halliburton come out on his first job, you told me. CH: 19-- I want to talk to her about Halliburton. I think she knows them people down at Fort Ramsay-- live right in-- what' ; s their names? EF: Maroon' ; s (PH). WN: Oh yes, Maroon' ; s (PH)! CH: Well I see-- I' ; ve seen them every day for the last month there at Fort Ramsay, Texas-- WN: Oh. CH: --when I' ; ve been down there-- WN: Oh, well they left-- left their corner-- they still live here, they just leave their house and go down there and have a good time. That' ; s what they' ; re doing. CH: Yeah. WN: Yeah. CH: And we was just talking the other day, something bout (Indecipherable) and I said, well I knew her of course but I couldn' ; t think of your mother' ; s name to save my life-- WN: My-- CH: --and they couldn' ; t either. WN: -- my father only has one living brother now and he lives down at Brownsville, Texas. He was a citrus brewer down there for a long time. Can you remember any of the things that your mother did, like did she make soap or did she do anything real pioneerish-- CH: I' ; m sure. They made soap back then and I know this, she dried lots of fruit on the roof-- WN: On the roof of your-- CH: -- dried apricots and apples and I guess that' ; s about all. WN: Well, did you help your mother with your laundry any at all? CH: Did I help? WN: Uh-Huh. CH: Not if I could help it! WN: Okay. (Laughter) Do you-- CH: I had two sisters and-- WN: --but did you have a cow in town? CH: Oh yeah! I' ; d delivered milk all over town, nickel a quart. WN: But just-- CH: Nickel a quart. WN: Nickel a quart. Just from your cow? Or did-- CH: Oh yeah. WN: Well at one point in time you said that there was a community pasture or something up here-- CH: I' ; ve taken-- I-- we took our cow out there and I had a pony and I' ; d deliver cows to your-- one to your house and one to-- WN: Oh. CH: --certain ones for I don' ; t know a little money of some kind I suppose, bound to be. But it was a community pasture and it was right pretty close to right in here. WN: That' ; s what I thought. That' ; s what I' ; ve heard that it was up in this area. CH: A little closer to town-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I think. WN: --A little. Up maybe where the sand pipe is-- CH: No, is it down-- where is the hospital, right here? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. CH: Alright it was right between here and the hospital-- WN: Was it? Well that' ; s interesting to know. Do you remember anything at all-- did you butcher anything-- CH: Oh yeah. I worked for Bullington (PH) (Indecipherable) and helped-- and done all the butchering. When I was a teenager, we' ; d go out east of town down on (Indecipherable) had what they called a slaughter house down there and me and old man Bullington (PH) would go down and kill a beef. I' ; d load it into my little cart that I delivered meat in and bring it back up and put it in the ice. I done all the butchering. WN: Where' ; d you get your ice? CH: From the ice plant. WN: We had the ice plant-- CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? Victor' ; s (PH)-- WN: Victor' ; s (PH) ?CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? WN: Victor' ; s (PH) had the ice plant? CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? EF: I don' ; t know ; this is before my time-- WN: Let-- let-- EF: Just across the railroad track on the left there. CH: What' ; s there now? EF: Bank. CH: Bank, yeah. WN: Bank. It' ; s gone. Well let me ask you, somebody called and asked me the other day if there-- if I had read any early accounts of a brick maker or a brick factory here in Bristow. Do you remember any kind of a brick-- anybody-- CH: You know it ; it runs my mind it was but I can' ; t come up with nothing-- WN: --somebody who made bricks-- well we' ; re looking for somebody who made bricks. We' ; re trying to find out where the bricks for that little church down there, that was a Christian Science church but before that, wasn' ; t it a little Episcopalian church? The first little brick church in Bristow. CH: It runs my mind that it was a brick factory there, but I can' ; t come up with-- I can' ; t say for sure. WN: You don' ; t remember that. Is there-- well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came-- CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up-- there was people-- I' ; d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em' ; on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building-- what' ; s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth-- second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that-- WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I' ; m pretty sure that King (PH) and-- I know King (PH) was here and I think-- WN: How about Schrader (PH) or-- CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he-- CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my-- EF: Who delivered-- CH: Birth Certificate. Huh? EF: Pardon me, go ahead. I just wondered who delivered me? I come in seventeen. CH: When I was trying to get my birth certificate, I had trouble getting it because I didn' ; t have the doctor, and midwife and they was all dead and my mother couldn' ; t get any of the information I finally went to Doc King (PH) and he says, well Hank-- everybody called me Hank-- he said, Hank if you can' ; t get one-- says, I know you was alive when you was about two years old. He said if you can' ; t get one I' ; ll give you one because I' ; ve doctored you ever since coming to Bristow. So he was the doctor when I come to Bristow in 1902. I know he was here then. WN: Well did-- was your mother ever a midwife? Did she ever do anything like that? CH: I couldn' ; t tell you about that. I imagine so, probably. WM: Do you remember what kind of medicines you took-- they took during the flu epidemic-- CH: No, I know they had something. Dr. King (PH) give you something called Deep Fork Slugs. WN: (Laughter) Deep Fork Slugs? CH: Yeah, that' ; s exactly what it was. It' ; s for-- in the spring for the Flu you know, they didn' ; t call it Flu then. WN: (Laughter) CH: Yeah, Deep Fork Slugs. WN: Oh! CH: Big ole capsule like thing and I think it' ; s kind of-- put the medicine in it their selves ya know and just get the end caps. Ray Mars (PH) was a druggist he done most of it. WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn' ; t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets-- CH: Yeah, bricked em' ; . M-HM, yeah. WN: --and how long did it take em' ; ? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don' ; t have any idea on that. EF: Didn' ; t you say one man-- colored man laid most of the bricks-- CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I-- I' ; d as a kid just go down there and watch em' ; . I don' ; t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must' ; ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it' ; d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? WN: No! No I don' ; t. They' ; ve always been paved as far as I' ; m concerned. EF: Yeah. WN: I do remember when they paved eleventh street though because I-- CH: Well it wasn' ; t brick though was it? WN: No it wasn' ; t brick, but I-- I remember I got to roller skate down the hill and take the wagon down the hill. I thought that was so exciting and you didn' ; t even have to worry about cars then. (Laughter) Oh, well do you-- can you tell me just a little bit about the kind of social life you had as a teenager and some of the rules and regulations or how you courted or-- CH: Oh, now I don' ; t know too much about it, I wasn' ; t interested in anything like that. There wasn' ; t a whole lot went on. WN: You mean you weren' ; t interested in the girls or anything? CH: No, not then. WN: (Laughter) Well what did you do for entertainment? CH: Well, there wasn' ; t much. I' ; ll tell you there wasn' ; t much. Just go for a walk and things like that. I can remember on Sunday a whole bunch of kids would go out about this time of year, huntin' ; first little ole flowers to come out. Out here on-- right about where the hospital is, where we' ; d all congregate and wonder around. WN: Well, my mother used to say they enjoyed walking at the railroad tracks. CH: Yeah. WN: Did you ever do that? CH: I expect I have. WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember-- can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the-- well wait a minute, let' ; s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn' ; t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours' ; time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know-- lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or-- CH: I knew-- I knew (Indecipherable) which is an old time (Indecipherable) and city police. (Indecipherable) was sheriff, what' ; s his name? Johnson (PH)? EF: Lee (PH). CH: Lee Johnson (PH). EF: You knew Allen (PH) too. CH: Allen (PH). EF: I' ; m gonna bring up that story when you was on the pipeline. CH: Oh. EF: Tell her about that-- CH: Jessie Allen (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: Jessie Allen (PH)? Oh tell me about-- CH: He wasn' ; t a police! EF: Tell her that story. WN: Oh, he was a marshal wasn' ; t he? EF: Marshal. WN: Well thank-- CH: Well not Jessie Allen (PH). EF: Well now go ahead and tell that story. CH: Jessie Allen (PH), Indians raised him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: and he married an Indian and he was almost an Indian but he wasn' ; t. And they-- I was just a kid and I was working for (Indecipherable). EF: Lumber yard. CH: Lumber-- in the lumber business and they leased a wagon out to-- to this pipeline crew to-- I' ; d haul the crew out to lay the pipeline out. Anyway, they' ; d come to Jessie Allen' ; s (PH) place out here and he come down, told em' ; they wasn' ; t gonna cross-- and this-- and this crew foreman told me he said " ; Go on across kid!" ; I was just a kid, probably fifteen, sixteen years old and I said, " ; No, not me that' ; s Jessie Allen. (PH)" ; and he had a rifle across' ; d his saddle of his horse and this guy says " ; Well we can' ; t get him to talk to us." ; and I said " ; No he was Indian raised and he' ; s just that much Indian." ; And I said, " ; I' ; m not driving across' ; d there." ; And I don' ; t know how it was straightened out but he stopped em' ; and they had to come back and get the-- EF: Three or four days you had-- they had-- CH: Yeah, they held the whole crew up three or four days but this pipeline guy was going on across and he' ; d a shot him sure of the world, cause he' ; d already shot several people as far as I (Inaudible). WN: Did you ever-- did you ever have any confrontations with any of the Indian youth around this area? CH: Indian? WN: Yeah, I noticed where the Indian youth played baseball a lot of times. CH: Yeah. WN: The Yuchi' ; s. CH: Yeah. We played Yuchi Indians High School a lot of times. I' ; m-- on this-- in this book he got all of these writings and several of em' ; in there about the Yuchi Indians. I remember one of em' ; especially I can kinda remember would be them 60' ; s and nothing-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --and that' ; s when the Yuchi Indians school was-- WN: At Sapulpa? CH: -- was at Sapulpa. I don' ; t believe the (Indecipherable) bacon-- ba ba Bacone. WN: Bacone. CH: Or something like that. WN: Well-- well let me ask you on the-- CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite-- WN: Yes. CH: --an announcer for-- WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn' ; t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the-- if it hadn' ; t been for sports he' ; d of starved to death. He couldn' ; t do nothing else-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --he wasn' ; t fit for nothing. Never done a day' ; s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news-- CH: Yes, he did. WN: -- in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any-- CH: Snakes? WN: Snake Indians. Didn' ; t-- do you remember a Mr. Purdy (PH)? CH: Oh! Old man Purdy (PH)? WN: Yes. CH: Sure. WN: Well, in one of his little diaries he had something about an uprising with the Snake Indians and-- CH: You mean CH Purdy' ; s (PH) dad? WN: I think it was. CH: Yeah. I remember-- I know quite a story about him. WN: Well let me ask you, what was the relationship of the early settlers, or the early people here with the Negro. CH: You know, I can' ; t tell you. It seems to me like when I was a kid we got along good with the Negros. EF: Uh-- CH: Old Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH) somebody sold whiskey and-- EF: Tell her the story that you told me down at the-- CH: Oh tell about-- who was that (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH)? EF: Yeah. CH: (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH) was colored but he was white and I was down there one time and they' ; d like to run him to death running him so-- the colored section around to the white section. The guy at the colored section new him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: I don' ; t know whether he was buying a ticket or trying to send some express or something, but he went to the colored section where he oughta be and that guy didn' ; t know em' ; and he thought it was white and he sent him around to the white and when he got around there he knew him and knew he was colored and he sent him back. WN: (Laughter) EF: You said he got kind of upset for it all. WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that-- how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I-- I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn' ; t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him-- I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, " ; I want to go anyway." ; and he said, " ; Well we' ; ll send you" ; and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well-- CH: They had-- they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid' ; s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that-- WN: But do you-- do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock-- WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That-- CH: Oh did the tear it out? WN: Yeah. EF: M-HM WN: Yeah, it' ; s gone. (Everyone talking at once) EF: You saw it this morning where the tennis courts was. CH: I know, but that-- where the stage was and the rock seats-- EF: Yeah, yeah. WN: Oh! pause in recording WN: It was at Klingensmith Park. CH: You know who this Klingensmith (PH) was don' ; t you? WN: Well someone said he was the first-- CH: He was the-- he was the son of this lady that was in the milliner store. WN: With your mother? CH: With my mother. Her son and he was the first one killed from Bristow in World War I. WN: Was he married? Do you know? CH: I don' ; t believe he was. I' ; m pretty sure he wasn' ; t. Him and Gene Wrine (PH) went together, same time. Gene Wrine (PH) was an old timer around here and he was in the sign business here for years and years. The signs still around town, he made and him and Klingensmith (PH) was together overseas and that' ; s about all I know about it. WN: But then they dedicated the park in his honor? CH: On account of him being the first one. WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920' ; s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn' ; t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I' ; ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here-- WN: Oh. EF: -- in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had-- I had-- when let' ; s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What' ; d they call it? KOX? K-- first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn' ; t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that' ; s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the-- what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. CH: And it was my old Model T Coupe. About all you could do was just drive around the block but you could get the music in on it and the first radio we had, had to have earphones with it, and my mother got such a bang out of the radio you know, we took it home and put it in the great big ole-- it had to be-- couldn' ; t have been aluminum, didn' ; t have-- metal dish pan. We put the radio in that and we' ; d all huddle around it and that' ; d pull the sound back at you because of the microphone, I guess you could call it. WN: Well now, they said that they had an opera house down on sixth street. Did you ever go to any of the entertainments there? CH: On sixth street? WN: There were the gas-- electric company is right there on the corner where Dr. Harse (PH) had his-- CH: Well that' ; s where the old Abraham building-- where they had the flu people-- WN: Yeah. CH: Yeah! That' ; s what that was, the opera house. M-HM. Yeah, I remember. Oh sure! WN: And you went to some performances there? CH: I don' ; t remember-- I don' ; t remember too much about em' ; but I know I did. WN: Well, did-- tell me how was the interaction between the Indians and the whites at that time? Were there lots of intermarriages and-- CH: You know something, I was a little too young to really remember about that-- I don' ; t know! WN: Well I didn' ; t know whether they went to the same social events or-- CH: I don' ; t know. I couldn' ; t answer that. WN: Well now then, lets back up again. Do you remember how the Great Depression affected you in this area? CH: Well now you' ; re talking about what years? WN: Well like when the banks folded. Would be 1929-- CH: Well, see I' ; d already-- WN: You' ; d already left? CH: --I' ; d already left then. That was in 29 wasn' ; t it? WN: Yeah and you had-- when did you leave? CH: Yeah, in 27. WN: In 27-- CH: --Yeah I was married in 27 and moved to Seminole. And I know this, I got-- I had a little money in three different banks and they all-- all three of them went broke and I didn' ; t have much but it was just exactly like breaking John D. Rockefeller. It was all they had. WN: (Laughter) Well let me ask you this, in your early, early days do you remember Joe Abraham and-- CH: Well sure I do! WN: --and the other immigrant who came-- CH: I know Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. I worked a little for Ed in the store when I was a kid. No! Uphus (PH), it was Joe, Ed and Uphus (PH). WN: Uphus (PH), I saw that name in the paper the other day-- CH: Uphus Abraham (PH). He wasn' ; t-- he wasn' ; t-- he didn' ; t-- climb the ladder like the other two did. Ed and Joe was the-- and I know-- of course I know all of their kids. Went to school with some of em' ; . WN: Can you-- can you remember any of the stores that were on main street when you were a child? Or when you were in this area. CH: Oh I remember this, Abraham-- this Uphus Abraham (PH) and EH Mount (PH) had the grocery store and I remember another grocery store right next to-- EF: EH Mount' ; s(PH). CH: -- I don' ; t remember who run it, but they called him " ; No No (indecipherable) he' ; d had cancer and nose something and they had to take his whole nose off. (Indecipherable) you run a grocery store over there and of course HL House' ; s (PH) Hardware and (Indecipherable) Hardware-- WN: How many cotton gins were there here? Do you remember? CH: I know all kinds about three or four but to my-- I don' ; t think there was too many-- too many, but they were pretty good size cotton gins. EF: Bought a few of em' ; . WN: --Tell me, can you remember the jail? CH: Oh yeah! The old jail, now why they ever go of that and get away with that are now down across the railroad tracks-- WN: Oh! CH: -- Yeah! WN: I fought so hard to try to save that one at the city meetings-- CH: I don' ; t know why in the world that-- that hurt me more than anything else. See that was-- WN: Now I wanted to save that. I wanted them to fix a little park area down there-- CH: Well sure. WN: Don' ; t you remember that Ed (PH)? EF: Oh! CH: Well I remember when we was kids I just big enough to be kind of scary, we' ; d sneak down there at night and that was when this-- I called his name a while ago-- Jimmy (PH) (Indecipherable) was marshal. Little bitty dried up guy but boy he was a tough character I guess. Killed several people and they didn' ; t pull him. That was during the early oil boom now. That was a long about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, something like that. WN: Another thing I was reading about in the early papers ; I' ; d like to know a little more about. I noticed where we always had a big Fourth of July celebration. CH: Out here--out here, I guess where the park-- WN: Yes CH: --is now in that neighborhood. WN: and then-- EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole (PH) Park was it? CH: Huh? EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole Park (PH) was it? CH: Cole (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: No, it was Klingensmith Park. EF: Okay. CH: My mother would give me a quarter and tell me to have a good time and I had to spend every bit of it-- WN: And you had a good time. They were well attended weren' ; t they? CH: Oh yeah. All the politicians that' ; s here, I can remember following-- I don' ; t know who it was. I knew him pretty well, and he was connected with your dad some way. Run for sheriff one year, and I' ; d just follow him around and every time he' ; d give somebody a nickel or a dime to get a pop with, well I' ; d have my hands out. I can remember that just as well as (Indecipherable). (Laughter from everyone) WN: If you remember statehood, tell me about-- CH: Not too well see, I was just eight years old-- WN: Well, let me tell you every issue of the-- of the local newspaper somebody has stolen it and it has not been microfilmed. We don' ; t have any copies of Bristow' ; s early statehood papers. There was a paper called the Territorial Enterprise and then The Record and so-- CH: I can' ; t remember nothing but The Record. WN: Just The Record. Okay-- CH: Now who was one of the first editors? WN: Nichols (PH). CH: Nichols (PH)? WN: Yes, the Nichols (PH). CH: I remember him and her (Indecipherable). WN: Okay now tell me what you remember about Statehood. CH: I was just a kid was all. I don' ; t remember much other than it was a big celebration in coming to town and what sticks out the most is a fight they had down town and that' ; s the first time I' ; d ever seen two men fight and just absolutely bloody each other and this one down he had him down and around him beating him in the face with a brick or a rock or something and blood was just a (indecipherable) and that sticks with me, that' ; s the main thing I can remember. WN: (Laugher) EF: Well-- (Inaudible) CH: Nine years old see, you wouldn' ; t remember too much about it. EF: You told me (Indecipherable). CH: Well, there' ; s some connection there. WN: With the Oklahoma. She may have been born-- EF: Statehood. WN: Yeah, Statehood. EF: 1970 something. CH: I knew her real well but the connection-- WN: Wasn' ; t she pretty and you didn' ; t even get excited? I can' ; t believe you' ; d sit there and tell us that-- CH: See, my wife was working for Mr. Mounds (PH) when I met her. HL (PH)-- what was-- WN: EE Mounds (PH). EF: EE (PH). CH: EE Mounds (PH) yes, lived right there by the-- on the (Indecipherable)-- EF: Working at the (Indecipherable) CH: I can remember your face. WN: This-- this is-- EF: He worked-- he worked-- BN: Well, I wasn' ; t born here or anything. CH: No, but-- BN: I' ; ve been here for-- CH: Were you here in 26, 25 and 26? BN: No. WN: (Laughter) CH: I don' ; t remember you then. EF: He worked at-- you mighta went by our old Ford' ; s-- CH: Oh you worked for Ford' ; s too? WN: Yeah, he was my-- CH: Oh well then I-- WN: See he' ; s my husband. CH: See I worked for Ford' ; s when they-- I was working for-- for-- WN: Lloyd and-- CH: Who' ; d they buy out? EF: He-- CH: House (PH)? EF: (Indecipherable) CH: HL House (PH)? WN: House (PH) or Grimes (PH)? CH: The hardware. BN: He bought out Grimes (PH). WN: Grimes (PH), he bought out Grimes (PH)-- CH: Grimes (PH), that' ; s right. WN: Grimes (PH) is-- Everyone talking at once. CH: I had that part wrong. I worked for-- WN: In the House (PH) building, but-- EF: It was Grimes (PH). CH: I worked for it. HL House (PH) was in the hardware business. WN: Yes, he was-- CH: And I worked for him and then I worked for Lloyd and-- WN: And my father, Earl? CH: Earl. When they first bought-- they was from Depew wasn' ; t they? WN: Yes, they were. They were from down south of Depew. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come by and I' ; m glad we got him before he left town Ed. End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml
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Corwin Henkins
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In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression.
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OHP-0024-02
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1990-03-16
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Oral History
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Bunny Baker
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Dillard Baker
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
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5.4 April 13, 1993 OHP-0017-01 Dillard Baker OHP-0017-01 0:00-01:01:36 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Dillard Baker Bunny Baker MP3 1:|62(12)|93(2)|130(5)|149(6)|178(15)|208(13)|227(6)|240(5)|267(13)|296(6)|309(2)|337(9)|350(6)|373(10)|387(1)|413(7)|443(14)|459(5)|472(16)|493(12)|520(6)|534(11)|583(2)|607(7)|621(6)|643(15)|659(10)|680(2)|697(15)|710(2)|760(15)|778(7)|797(8)|845(17)|862(14)|873(5)|895(5)|920(1)|931(8)|943(6)|953(14)|975(5)|987(3)|998(16)|1017(1)|1038(12)|1062(2)|1082(10)|1101(7)|1127(5)|1155(10)|1168(11)|1183(10)|1196(11)|1216(15)|1258(7)|1302(11)|1320(13)|1343(2)|1368(16)|1379(11)|1400(1)|1421(4)|1431(15)|1442(7)|1461(8)|1478(6)|1495(2)|1514(8)|1530(1)|1548(6)|1567(6)|1587(4)|1605(8)|1623(14)|1634(14)|1647(9)|1665(7)|1681(8)|1695(1)|1712(5)|1728(11)|1745(2)|1759(15)|1786(3)|1817(1)|1849(9)|1867(13)|1883(7)|1894(3)|1909(7)|1920(11)|1937(17)|1951(14)|1967(2)|1987(4)|2006(10)|2023(10)|2041(5)|2051(17)|2063(12)|2075(2)|2097(13)|2121(11)|2131(11)|2142(9)|2166(12)|2186(6)|2211(2)|2229(9)|2237(17)|2255(11)|2270(6)|2296(14)|2312(15)|2338(4)|2353(9)|2369(3)|2380(11)|2404(5)|2418(2)|2443(9)|2458(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0017-01 Baker, Dillard.mp3 Other audio 369 Arrival In a Covered Wagon and Other Early Memories BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or “Doc” Baker as he is called by most people. I’m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle’s uncle. Dillard, or “Doc,” was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn’t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens’ Center and he walks everywhere he goes—to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He’s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). " ; Doc" ; Baker ; Advent Christian Church ; Baxter ; Bunny Baker ; Civil War ; Covered Wagon ; Dean Springs ; Farmer ; John Esther ; Marbles ; Merle Baker ; Overstreet ; Pea Ridge ; Schoolhouse Childhood ; Family History ; Life on the farm 585 Schoolhouse Day's BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school—well, we didn’t, didn’t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to—as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight—uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades DB: Just one that handled all of them, she—just—yeah, and they had them from the primary—well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn’t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they—knowing that you couldn’t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher’s name was? Ira Sloan ; Mills Chapel ; Schoolhouse ; Slates School 2018 Childhood on the Farm BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the—we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that’s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr—bales of hay—I mean cotton—piled up in one pile, you couldn’t get out, the creek’s all up and couldn’t get it to town to sell. But it’s about—about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there’s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their—the oldest one—well, you know Fred and—well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. Asafrtida ; Bessie Smith ; Black Draught ; Blansetts ; Canning ; Corn Shucks ; Cotton ; Log Cabin ; Malarial ; McClown ; Mills Chapel ; Punching Stick ; Quinine ; Smokehouse ; Sooner ; Spring Tonics ; VanOrsdol ; Wagon Childhood ; Crops ; Farm Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida Asafetida 2657 Army Service BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that’s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that’s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let’s see, that’s what—five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we’d just three teams, and so I wasn’t needed. So I went to—and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and—until they went to—well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that’s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that’s the same where I stayed there. And that’s where I went—was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then—which wasn’t very long. We didn’t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed—the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at—right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? American National Bank ; Army ; Camp Dixon ; Cathedral ; Cologne ; Enlisted ; Flu Epidemic ; Furlough ; Germany ; Hamburg ; Koblenz ; Lieutenant Colonel ; Merchant Marines ; New Rochelle Island ; Oil Boom ; Oklahoma Ship ; Rhine River ; Sergeant Army ; Germany ; Service 2951 Parties and Social Life BB: Well, let’s get back to your early days of—you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type— BB: What’d you do? What’d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we—the name of them I—don’t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that—that was a type of dancin’ that the folks didn’t know it, see. BB: Was it— DB: They’d let us go to a dance, but we’d go to a party and they’d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow— BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That’s— Birdie Dykes ; Chivaree ; Ms. Morgan ; Sloanes ; Smiths ; Square Dancing ; Swinging Games Courting ; Dancing ; Parties ; Social Life 3384 Courting and Marriage DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened—of course, this happened after I got back from the service—you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was—when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah—I want to get, I’ll hear about that now. DB: Well— BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin’ out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn’t—she wouldn’t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin’ around her, around her lookin’ at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never—no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That— BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was—when we got engaged? Betty Higgings ; Courthouse ; Deep Fork Bridge ; Fred Mattox ; Georgia Henderson ; John Morton ; Schoolteacher ; Staff Sergeant ; Train Courting ; Dating ; Marriage 3686 Oil and Indians BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ‘em? DB: No, not that—there was plenty outlaws but— BB: You didn’t— DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin’ out here. Dad had to—got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn’t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ‘em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin’ on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ‘em from getting’ stole. That’s what this—the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin’ fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew— BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That’s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff Drilling Rigs ; Fort Smith ; Iron Rigs ; Judge Parker ; Oil Fields ; Outlaws ; Tibbens ; Van Buren Indians ; Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Outlaws https://www.legendsofamerica.com/ar-isaacparker/ Judge Parker 4080 Christmas Of 1919 DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn’t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn’t know it was gettin’ darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye—I was—yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn’t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived—she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we’d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for—took off up there. Well, they wasn’t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, Baptist Church ; Christmas ; Christmas Eve ; Red Crocus Christmas ; Gifts ; Winter 4225 Cotton Gins and Buyers BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all—after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents— BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you’d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would—later have to cotton gin’s got to—see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you’d get in here first thing you’re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their—all had their cotton buyers. Well you’d go up there and just park. Here’d come a cotton buyer. He’d dig down in there and he’d see what kind of cotton you had and they’d give you a bid on it. You’d sit there all day ‘til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you’d leave where it’s three or four o’clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o’clock at night. Just—just how all waitin’ up here ‘til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they’d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? Abraham Gin ; Cotton Gin ; Main Street Bidding ; Cotton ; Cotton Gins 4421 Four Rose Whiskey Down The Outdoor Toilet DB: ‘Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn’t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had—the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn’t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know’d ‘em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know—that’s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they’d put ‘em in there to sober ‘em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that’s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service—I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked—I come almost gettin’ back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong—the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they—up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how—the stores, they was all separate. They didn’t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ‘em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. Artie Dykes ; Bill Chrishower ; Board Sidewalks ; Jail ; Jay Dykes ; Railroad Tracks ; Sheriff ; Wes Bay Drunks ; Jail 4846 Bristow Stores and Tobacco Use BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type— DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks—and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham—well, Joe first had the—had the first little—well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw—maybe you got one—them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember—they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he’d have ‘em—he’d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his— BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking—stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. Blood Disease ; Doc King ; Joe Abraham ; Medicine ; Mercantile ; Oil ; Sam Abraham ; Shops ; Tabacco 5144 Sickness, Health, and Hair Cuts BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your— DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I’ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I’ve never been a—even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I’d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ‘em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to—the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit—chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I’ll belch. And that’s how, that’s with chili. And just a time or two and it’s over, you know. But that’s the only thing, I never— BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that’s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn’t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. Cotton ; Doctor ; Health ; Hospital ; Malignant ; Nurse ; Pneumonia ; Service ; Surgery ; Wellington Health ; Hospital ; Sickness ; Surgery 5292 Murder and Whisky DB: They say they—all the murderin’ all that time was—I was, we’s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb—Harrison Webb had shot one of—hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where—oh, I’d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over—can’t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow—the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That’s the only murder that was—and then it was about, since 19-5, that’d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. Bill Baker ; Blacksmith ; Harrison Webb ; Murder ; Railroad Tracks ; Red Bird ; Shot ; Train Depot ; Whiskey Peddler 5443 Biography of Dillard and Family BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard’s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen’s Luncheons—well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren’t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the—today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I’m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. Alma, Arkansas ; Cordelia Overstreet Baker ; Crop Walk ; Dana Brideford ; John H. Baker ; Mills Chapel ; Wildflower Run Biography ; History 5590 Roustabouting and Oil DB: And then— BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin’ pipe, doin’ all kinds of manual labor. And, well that—it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin’ anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was—had that foreman’s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties—yeah, thirties. And that was just—well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building—drillin’ a new well and we’d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin’ and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move—where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved—I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. Foreman ; Lucas Pumping ; Oilfield ; Rigs ; Roustabouting ; Tibbens Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Oilfield 5733 Depression and Dust Bowl BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let’s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was— BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn’t affect us too much. We, we had—we didn’t have no money, wasn’t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that—we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods—flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill—my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That’s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at—you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and—all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon—and then at six o’clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well— Depression ; Dust Bowl ; Dust Days Dust Bowl ; Great Depression 5807 Cowboys BB: Did you know—had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy’d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule—this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we’d come to our—of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules—one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that’s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he’s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn’t. BB: Okay. Chisholm Trail ; Cowboy ; Earl Halliburton Cowboys ; Trails 6220 Mules, Whiskey and an Old Chevrolet Chevorlet ; Claremore ; Pryor ; R.D Dykes ; Tulsa ; Wes Christian Driving Mules ; Marriage 6480 Sorghum and Sugar Cane BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid— DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well— BB: A lot of people don’t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane—you have to— BB: You raised sugar cane. Jim Dowdy ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane Crops ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane 6713 Grandparents and Memories BB: Well, what’s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad’s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad—your dad’s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He—he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved—I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that’s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn’t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that—as far as—that’s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother’s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky Ducking ; Julia Ann Creekmore ; Sewing ; Shamrock Grandparents ; Memories 7153 Dillard Baker in the 90's . And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I’ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin’ to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don’t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don’t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there’s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there’s somebody out there that I don’t know, if I don’t know any of ‘em, I try to make it three times a week and then there’s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you’ll run into some friend that’s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That’s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin’ home, not knowin’ nothin’ about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ‘em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ‘em on their high shelves, none of ‘em can reach ‘em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that’s wrong with ‘em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ‘em and if they don’t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I— BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? Advent Christian Church ; Airplane ; Choir ; Deacon ; Groceries ; Hospital Airplane ; Church ; Cleaning ; Hospital ; Sick Elders 7414 Siblings and Birthplaces BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn’t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ‘til—well I quit playing when, when—oh, I played up ‘til forty-something, I don’t know, in the forties. BB: What would—you had—there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children— DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard— BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie—Bessie— BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don’t remember what Marie’s—if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. Arkansas ; Baseball ; Bessie Gertrude ; Clyde Alexander ; Creek County ; Deep Fork ; Dillard Roy ; Marie Ophelia ; Oval Lee ; Teepees ; Wayne L. Birth Place ; Childhood ; Indians ; Siblings In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow Interviewer: Bunny Baker (BB) Interviewee: Dillard Roy Baker (DB) (1899 - June 21, 1996) Other Persons: Unknown Man (UM) ; Terry Howe Baker (TB) (October 16, 1928 - ____) Date of Interview: April 13, 1993 Location: Transcriber: Melissa Holderby Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0017 Sides A& ; B and OHP-0018 Sides A& ; B Length: 01:01:36 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or " ; Doc" ; Baker as he is called by most people. I' ; m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle' ; s uncle. Dillard, or " ; Doc," ; was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn' ; t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens' ; Center and he walks everywhere he goes--to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He' ; s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). BB: And your mother? DB: Cardy (ph). Cardy (ph) Cornelius. BB: Overstreet was her last name. DB: Yeah, Overstreet, yeah. BB: And where--were they born in--where were they born? DB: They was born in--both of ' ; em right around Dead Springs there. BB: Okay. Do you remember the year they came to Oklahoma? DB: Yeah, 1905. BB: Nineteen-five. And how old were you? DB: Seven. BB: Seven? And how did they travel when they came to Oklahoma? DB: Covered wagon. BB: How many? One or more? DB: No, it was three. BB: Three? DB: Mmm-hmm [in assent]. It was us and a fellow by the name of Baxter (ph) and then another guy--there was three families. BB: Yeah. DB: That come together on that trip. And we was twenty-eight days coming out here. BB: From Dean Springs? DB: Yeah. We was twenty-eight days going a hundred--I mean two hundred mile, on account of the water. There was no bridges, you know, and they had to wait until creeks and branches went down before we could cross. BB: What type of work did your father do? DB: Farm. BB: He was a farmer? DB: Farmer for life. BB: Was your mother a midwife? DB: Well, she wasn' ; t a--registered or nothing like that, but she helped an awful lot of times. And from the time I was fairly old I had to go with her, because I was the oldest and if it happened at night and she was afraid to go by herself. So-- BB: What' ; s the favorite stories you remember of your parents telling about their early days? DB: Well, near about the earliest I can remember hearing them talk about was, oh, nineteen and I' ; d say ten--nine and ten--they used to tell us about there was a church house about eight mile from where they lived, and they all went to the schoolhouse and the only one that--where they went to church? Well, she used to go with a guy, and so this time when they went there, why she went with another guy and he come with another girl. And that' ; s the way they met there, and they was already engaged to be married, you know. And it seemed like that caused some confusion. (laughing) BB: I' ; d think so! DB: But that' ; s about as early--that' ; s about all I can remember. BB: Was your grandfather or your--anybody in the Civil War that you know of? DB: No. No, they wasn' ; t. There was a battle that was fought about four miles from where--where I was born. There' ; s a battle. Not major battle, just a little further over up there at Pea Ridge, they had that battle, you know, but-- BB: Have they told you, or do you remember any stories that they told about those days? DB: No, I never heard them mention it. BB: Do you remember them telling any stories about slave days? DB: No. BB: Indians? DB: No, there was no Indians back in there. BB: Okay. DB: They didn' ; t know what an Indian was until we started out here and got into Indian Territory. BB: Okay. What was your favorite toy as a child? DB: Well, our toys then was all made toys. I don' ; t remember daddy ever buying us a toy when we were a little kid. Other than that, we got--oh, I' ; d say [indecipherable] and I. Just before we come out here, that' ; d make us about five and six. Well, I mean he was five and I was six, you know. There' ; s thirteen months' ; difference in our ages. And dad come home one day with this little axe, one of these little axes, hand axes, you know. And it was a small one. And that' ; s the first present I can remember getting. And he took it away from us pretty quick because he looked out there and we was chopping on a tree in the yard. (laughing) DB: Yeah. BB: What was your favorite game as a child? DB: Marbles. BB: Marbles? DB: Yeah. BB: And what was your favorite food? DB: Well, I' ; d say peaches, apples, fresh fruit. UM: Fresh fruit. DB: That--I mean, it still is, of course. BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school--well, we didn' ; t, didn' ; t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to--as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight--uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades? DB: Just one that handled all of them, she--just--yeah, and they had them from the primary--well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn' ; t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they--knowing that you couldn' ; t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher' ; s name was? DB: No, that--one of ' ; em was Lamb (ph), and he was from Arkansas. But he was--I don' ; t remember the first one. All I remember about the first time down there--Ira Sloan (ph), she was about four or five year' ; older than I was, and--well, she was my girlfriend. We' ; d play together and we was the two oldest. I was the oldest boy going there at that time and she was the oldest girl. And, so she was up in a higher grade, of course. But we was--we paired off together and I got caught writin' ; her a note one time. And I didn' ; t write any more when the teacher got through with it. They didn' ; t believe in talkin' ; in them days. BB: How did she punish you? DB: Well I got a paddle! BB: Did you use slates, chalk, pencils, or what? DB: They [indecipherable] regular pencils. Slates to start with, and then of course we graduated into regular pencils. BB: Do you remember what subjects you studied? DB: Well, we only had reading and spelling and arithmetic. And geography. Course there was reading and spelling until you was about in the second grade, then you started on these others. And then you had geography and arithmetic--I mean, the--they had grammar. They' ; d call it two of every--draw everything on the board, you know, and big sentences running all over the board. Which never did do me no good. (laughing) BB: What about your school--well, how did you get to school? DB: Walk. BB: Walk. How far did you have to walk? DB: Three and a half miles. BB: What about your school lunches? DB: Well, they was biscuits and sausage and we always had to take--we took milk. One time--I know we did because one time--they was put in gallon buckets, you know, and there was four of us going at this time, and two of--two of our lunches were put together in one gallon bucket. And so that time, when we started to eat dinner, I had mistakenly got ahold of a gallon bucket of milk. That' ; s what I had. (laughing) DB: I remember that one. BB: Was that all you had? DB: That was all I had! Yeah! BB: The wrong bucket, huh? DB: I thought, that was the wrong bucket! And old Wayne (ph), he wouldn' ; t let me have none of his. Him and Bessie, there for a while they' ; d--when Marie got big enough, of course Bessie and Marie took their dinners [indecipherable] you know. But that [indecipherable] later before Marie come in to it, she wasn' ; t going to school then of course. BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the--we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that' ; s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr--bales of hay--I mean cotton--piled up in one pile, you couldn' ; t get out, the creek' ; s all up and couldn' ; t get it to town to sell. But it' ; s about--about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there' ; s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their--the oldest one--well, you know Fred and--well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. BB: Nineteen-eight. DB: Mm-hmm [agreeing]. BB: Do you remember what the price of a new wagon was back those days? DB: No, I remember dad buying one, this was in 1911 was the first time we ever bought a--we ever bought a new wagon. But we bought the other stuff at the same that that he bought me a saddle, he was ready to start raising mules and he bought me a saddle to break ' ; em with. And it was all on the same--just packaged up with the wagon, ' ; cause--but I know he bought one. That was one of the old high wheel wagons. And then I know he bought one of the rope wheel--iron wheel wagons the next year--or maybe ' ; 13--that had where you turned--where it could turn around with. It took an acre to turn around with them old high wheel ones, you know. BB: Yeah. DB: ' ; Cause they wouldn' ; t really bend. BB: Do you know what brand some wagon it was? DB: Well, the first one we got was a Sooner. BB: Oh? [pause] Okay, what crops did you raise, Dillard? DB: Cotton, corn, kaffir corn, and milo maize, oats--for feed, you know, had to raise your own feed to make the next crop with. And so that' ; s about it. [indecipherable] for sorghum. We always had our sorghum and molasses, and-- BB: Do you remember what--when they went to town for groceries, do you remember what groceries they bought? DB: Well, they bought flour and coffee and the staples, things like that because we raised all the rest of the stuff, you know. And that was just it--flour and the coffee and the meal--we' ; d shell the corn, get up on the mule and take it to the mill and had it ground, you know. And we' ; d give--it' ; d cost us so much meal to get it, they took their wages out in meal. And that' ; s the way, that' ; s where we got our meal. BB: Did you work in the fields? DB: Yeah, from the time I was--I went--I done my first climb when I was a three-and-a-half year old. I can remember back that, to then. Can' ; t go beyond that. But dad was a breakin' ; land. Ten acres was a big crop for one horse back by then, and he was using an eight-inch turning plow, and one horse. We had an old sorrel one-eyed horse. And so [indecipherable] the house about a hundred and fifty yards, something like that, and mom asked me if I wanted to take him a drink, and I said, Yeah. Well, he saw me a' ; comin' ; , ' ; course he sat down on the plow and waited for me, and he got ready to go, he said, You want to plow? And of course I did. I couldn' ; t reach the handles but I could reach the bar that, you know, run acrossways there. And I don' ; t remember how far I plowed but anyhow it was until the plow fell over. (laughing) DB: And that' ; s that. That' ; s as far as I went. BB: Did you, did you have to help with the milking? I assume you had cows? DB: Yeah, yeah. I helped ma milk cows. BB: How old were you when you started milking? DB: Well, when I was about eight, well I--she sold cream and we were--nobody got no cream in the coffee, it was milk. And after the cream was skimmed off of it, you know. And it was my job every morning to take one of those old-time tin cups, beat it down to the cow lot, and milk enough milk for the coffee. That was my job in the morning while Liz (ph) and mom was gettin' ; breakfast. I' ; d run down there and milk that thing full of milk and mom would strain it and I' ; d put the cream in the coffee. BB: How many cows did you milk? DB: Well, it' ; s from one to three. Just according to the pasture we had. ' ; Cause most of the places you didn' ; t have enough pasture on there. BB: You farmed all the land, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I' ; d say it was, not counting dad and mom, there was eleven of us and we farmed about ninety acres and it took three teams to keep us going. ' ; Cause we raised all the meat and had chicken, eggs, geese, [indecipherable] and all that kind of stuff, you know. BB: Did--I assume that you chopped and picked cotton? DB: You' ; re not kidding! (laughing) DB: Oh, highest day of picking was 427 pounds. BB: I was gonna ask you how much you could pick in one day. DB: I didn' ; t pick that every day, but--because I had to--like I said, I had to help do the milking and stuff like that before I could get to the fields, see. And dad had to get on ' ; cause we always had the hands down there. And Wayne was always bragging about beating me at picking cotton, but he did because he got down there an hour before I did. Well, dad turned us loose that day and he told me, he said I' ; ll settle this. He said, you guys get down there, same time, and play at the same time, and then he said, that' ; ll settle this argument. So Wayne--I got 427 and Wayne got 421. BB: Well. DB: And he found two rocks in Wayne' ; s sack! (laughing) DB: Sure did! BB: As a child, can you remember any particular ornery thing that you did that was outstanding? DB: Everything! (laughing) BB: And how were you punished for it? DB: Same way! (laughing) DB: You had to go get your own switch at that time. That' ; s what they used for whipping. I think the first times I really got the biggest kick out of Wayne and got a whipping with it, he never would hunt, he never would fish, but he' ; d go with me when I' ; d go out to the horses in the morning in the pasture, sometimes he' ; d go with me if I had a hook set up and then we' ; d run the hooks, you know, and then bring ' ; em back in. One time I caught an eel about five foot long. He thought it was a snake. And so when I turned it around, why, he started running. He was afraid of it. And I took after him. Had that eel a' ; hanging on the end of that pole out there, you know, I took off running up to the house. My dad heard him a' ; yellin,' ; he come out there and went up there and never said a word, he just took that eel off of that hook and gave me a durned good whipping with it, just like a black snake. Then he hung it to the--nailed it to the post, skinned it, cleaned it, mom put it in the skillet, when it began to get hot it began to jump around--you know how frog legs will jump? Well that' ; s what that eel will do! And she--she thought something was wrong and just throwed the skillet and all out the door! (laughing) DB: But that' ; s--and about those--something--oh, about that time, the first thing in, I mean, thing happened that' ; s still in my mind just as clear as it was the day it happened: one Sunday afternoon--and like I said, we always had to make our fun, whatever we was doing. Well, there was a place at this [indecipherable] where they was building their first bigger building here at Mills Chapel--in brick. And they was gettin' ; sand out of there, and they had a hole--a cave out where they was diggin' ; out that sand. Well, man, a little girl by the name of Smith--Bessie Smith--was under there and Orville (ph) he was under there so far, and so when--' ; cause he was right close to the edge. Well this whole thing caved in. A big stump on top of it up there. And it buried her and it buried him in there. But he was close enough where we dug him before it smothered him. But it killed her. And, so we dug her out and there was a fellow there by the name of McClown (ph), and he was going to carry her, she was eleven year' ; old. She had a big crush on me and I had a crush on her sister. So (chuckling), but anyhow--I just picked her up and the bones was just crushed to where they' ; d pick her up and she' ; d just go right down between--it took two to carry her, you know, her [indecipherable] had broke up so bad. BB: Well. DB: And that has stayed in my mind all these years, just clear as it was that [inaudible]. BB: Well, you went to Mills Chapel before it became a brick-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What was it before that? DB: It was just a--made out of one of the [indecipherable] fixed at the--sawed at the lumber mill. BB: Okay. And what--did you ever live in a log cabin? DB: Well, no. Grandpa lived in a log cabin when we come out here, and he lived about a--nearly a quarter north of Mills Chapel. And we come out here that fall and stayed with them. And they had a big old log cabin--two big cabins with a big hall went between though, like they build ' ; em back then, and a kitchen was on the back. But there was two log cabins. They had a lot of log cabins. BB: The kitchens were separated-- DB: Yeah--no they was built on just a slope, built off from the top of the house. BB: Yeah. DB: The house would run like that and they would just run--just like this would be here, and they' ; d just run that kitchen right on back out [indecipherable] I don' ; t know what they used. Well, yeah, they may have [indecipherable] Surely they had a--one of them outfits, you know, a-- BB: Froe. DB: Froe. BB: Froe. DB: And a maul. And they' ; d hit that froe there and then go to workin' ; like that so it' ; d split them [indecipherable]. Yeah, I' ; m sure they got ' ; em. BB: What-what--how was your house furnished when you first remember? DB: Very poorly. We had the necessities, what it took. We had--most of the mattresses was made out of shucks. BB: Corn shucks. DB: Corn shucks, yeah. You would hear ' ; em rattling when you turned over, you heard ' ; em all over the house. And so then most of the kids slept on pallets. We never had over one bedroom until we got--it was later, until--in fact, that' ; s all we lived in that I know of. And most of the kids slept on pallets on the floor. And then we had--there was tents, just with hay and a cloth spread over the hay for a floor, you know. We lived in those, too. Then they got to where they' ; d box the tent up about [indecipherable], you might' ; ve saw some of them. Box a--put a floor in ' ; em and box a tent--I mean [indecipherable] one of the [indecipherable] and then put your tent over it, you know, and that way you had--down here you had lumber and then this tent was overhead. I remember, ' ; cause if it come a rain, they wouldn' ; t leak a drop but you go over there and take your finger and just go down like that, wherever you stopped, well that' ; s where that water' ; d run down in and start leaking. BB: (chuckling) DB: Yeah! We got more spankings for that when we were little! BB: So you had plenty of air conditioning that way-- DB: Yeah, we had plenty of air conditioning, that' ; s right. BB: Did your--I assume that your mother made your own soap? Made your-- DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she made all of our soap and, and she almost--well, she did make a lot of the clothes as far as us and the girls clothes, you know. And she made a lot of our shirts. And she--most of ' ; em was made out of flour sacks. And then they got to--if you remember, they got to where they got pretty flour sacks. We made everything out of ' ; em, then. BB: Yeah. DB: Pretty flowers, you remember? Yeah. BB: How did she do her laundry? And did you have to help? DB: No, I didn' ; t--other than carrying, drawing water, haul it out of the well and carrying it and keeping water in the pot--you know, they used to--well they' ; d use a rub board on a bench. And then they had a--some water sitting there in another tub that they would rinse them in. Then they went in to a big--one of them big old black pots and boil ' ; em. That' ; s where they boiled ' ; em, they used a stick to boil ' ; em, I mean-- BB: Punch it down. Punching stick, they called it. DB: Yeah. A punching stick, that' ; s right. BB: Yeah. DB: Broom, looks like a broom handle. BB: That' ; s what it was! (laughing) BB: Yeah, ' ; cause we had ' ; em too. DB: Yeah. BB: Okay, did you do your own butchering? DB: Yeah. BB: Both hogs and beef, or-- DB: No, we never did, we never did kill our beef. But there was people around in them days--and they found out something that was really good--if they was gonna kill a--they used a cow, they never used, they never used young stuff--they' ; d take a cow that was pretty poor, just run down, you know? Put her up and fatten her and right quick and you had the tenderest meat that you--you couldn' ; t buy meat like that. But just all that meat was put on right just fast, see, and it was really tender. And then they' ; d put it in a wagon, put some brush over it and keep the flies off of it, the son would take off around the country and you' ; d go out and tell ' ; em what you wanted, where you wanted to get it, and they' ; d take an axe and cut it off from that old cow. BB: Well. DB: Now they quartered it before, so they could handle it, see. BB: Was your primary meat pork? DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mama used to cut up--I know one time, the most I ever knew of her cuttin' ; up was four twenty-gallon lard stands full of lard. And that year we had six hogs we cut up that weighed average 600 pounds apiece. BB: Now, how did you go about storing them? Butchering them and then storing the meat? DB: Well, you take a--which, as you know, with-- (laughing) DB: We' ; d always had a smokehouse and--which is generally made out of logs, and there would always be a bench in there and you put your--first you went in there with your fresh meats and you salted down, just covered it in salt, and the ham shoulders--there was all of it, you know. And then after that, what they called ' ; took salt,' ; why then give it a good washing and--with warm, soapy water--dried it good, and then put that--well they had a salt, a curing salt, and you could either get it with sugar in it or you' ; d put the brown sugar and rub that all over them hams and on--you remember how good that ham, that gravy was? BB: (chuckling) Sure do! Okay, you want to tell us how grandma rendered the lard? DB: Yeah, in this big pot I was telling you--in this big pot that-- BB: Did she render it outside? DB: Yeah, outside, yeah, over--outside the fire. BB: In the big black pot? With the fire built in there. DB: I stirred that ' ; til I was--thought my arm was gonna go in a circle after it come off! BB: Okay. Did you help in the kitchen? DB: Well, other than wash dishes. Because I began to wash dishes pretty early. Mama, she' ; s always a baby there every year or two. Well, Wayne and I was the closest, as I said, thirteen. Then about every two year it was. They were--so the last one was still a baby, you know, had to be took care of. And so they--I' ; d--when they' ; d go to town on Saturday after I got up in size, why, I didn' ; t care about going. Well, I' ; d stay there. I cleaned up and I washed the dishes and then we always had that cornbread and milk for supper. And I' ; d do that and I' ; d have the cows up and feeding done by the time they got home. And then I' ; d get on a horse and I' ; d go to town or somewhere. BB: What was your mother' ; s favorite recipes? Your fav--in other words, the-- DB: Well, I don' ; t-- BB: Other than cornbread. (chuckling) DB: Cornbread was the main one, I' ; ll tell you for sure. ' ; Cause she had a--kept a--there was some kind of a milk pie. She' ; d take--cook pie crust and set--start off that, put that in its place. And then she made it with milk and spices and it' ; s all stirred up, and it got kind of thick, and then she' ; d fill that pie crust to about half full, and then she set another pie crust down in there and do the same thing, sometimes I saw eight and ten crusts! BB: Well! DB: In one pie, see? BB: I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: And mostly, we liked vanilla flavoring. That' ; s what she' ; d flavor this milk with when she did it. Ahh, they' ; re great. They just--when that soaks in that crust? And you cut that out and then--' ; course you can eat it with a spoon or whatnot. But you cut it just like you' ; d cut cake. And that stuff was all smoked in the--I mean soaked into them, them crusts. And you would never taste anything that tastes better. And she had that then--she could do that, and that was dessert for the whole crowd, you know. The whole family. BB: What was the difference between stove wood and wash wood? DB: Well, wash wood was brush, mostly. You' ; d--the wash wood that we used was small limbs that was too small to cut up in stove wood length and rick up or something like that, you know. But we always' ; d knock the little limbs off of it then put that in there. And so that' ; s what we used for that. And the stove wood was cut--well, [indecipherable] about twelve inches long and then split into little small sticks--slabs, you know, and-- BB: In other words, your wash wood was scrap wood. DB: That' ; s right. It was just scraps and-- BB: Yeah, that' ; s what we-- DB: --and Mom used to save wood. Why, she used to save cobs--corncobs, you know--and burn them. We' ; d go in for dinner--so you' ; d have to do something quick if you went in to dinner, you know, in order to get back out in the field. She worked right out there with us. And so that' ; s why--that' ; s down there where used them corncobs. They made a hot fire, and made it quick. And ' ; bout all she had to do was warm up a lot of stuff. Sometimes, she would cook the full dinner and then we' ; d have our leftovers for supper. BB: Mm-hmm. DB: To go with cornbread and milk, you know. BB: Did she roast her own coffee? DB: Neh. No, we never did roast it. Always bought the beans, and we had that--one of them kind of square coffee grinders, you know, had the little drawer in it? [tape distortion begins] BB: Mm-hmm. DB: And you can grind that. And you' ; d grind that--and you' ; d grind that coffee so much--you' ; d grind that blame little deal under there and [indecipherable] it looks like--but you' ; d grind that full every morning for a pot of coffee. BB: (chuckling) DB: And then had to put so much milk in it, you know, to drink it. BB: Didn' ; t go far, did it? DB: No, it sure didn' ; t! BB: And she canned her own things-- DB: Oh, yeah, she canned. Oh, everything, I mean! We put sheets on top of the house--or shed-- like the kitchen I was talking about, and dried fruit, apples, peaches, and apricots, and we had a lot of that dried fruit. And then all we had to do was put it in sacks like, maybe like pillowcases, you know, and tie the end up and put it up in one of the rooms or something [indecipherable]-- BB: Do you remember how many cans of fruit you picked? Usually, per year? DB: The most I know that we canned was 600 quarts. BB: Goodness. DB: And that' ; s a lot of fruit. BB: [Indecipherable] DB: [Indecipherable] apples, peaches, plums, apricots, blackberries, and [indecipherable] she canned a whole lot of little potatoes, and put ' ; em in beans, when she canned beans, now she' ; d put them in beans, there, and [indecipherable]. I remember that year, she had went overboard, and she still had some, so, and she' ; d give the neighbors [indecipherable]. [taper distortion] DB: --and she had--forgot what I was talking about, now. BB: The canned fruit. DB: Oh, the canned fruit, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: And, but--was her own canning food was the worst and it was 1920 when they' ; d gone to town one day and she had about 300 cans in the cellar out there at the old place, you know where they moved from? And went home that night and she' ; d told dad to go down cellar and get a can of sausage. You know, you used to can sausage--put a little grease in ' ; em, turn ' ; em upside down so it' ; d seal the lid. He went down there and somebody had cleaned the cellar out while she was gone to town that day. And all the time that I' ; ve lived there, or I mean lived in Oklahoma--that was the first time they' ; d ever been bothered, anything' ; d ever been stolen. But you talk about a woman mad, that was one mad woman! BB: (chuckles) What about home remedies? What diseases and sicknesses did you all have, and she treated? DB: Well, I most type of the fevers-- BB: How did she treat them? DB: --Well most of it, for several years when we was kids, was chills. And so we had fever, you know, with them, them chills. Them chills was, was malarial. And quinine was the main--as dad used to say, when they was picking cotton, why we' ; d all be picking, he' ; d say, Come on, kid, and get your food, and he' ; d take out a quinine bottle and his knife, open the blade, and dip--get some quinine on the blade of that knife, put it on the mouth and then we' ; d take a sip of water to wash it down with. You talk about a bitter taste! Oh, boy! But that' ; s what we had to do. BB: Did you she give you spring tonics? DB: Yeah, we had--I probably can' ; t think of it now-- BB: We had black draughts. DB: Oh, we had that, yeah! That black draught! You' ; re not kidding! BB: (chuckling) DB: But there was some other kind of a tonic, was a just really a kind of a soupy stuff, and I hated that worse than-- BB: None of it tasted good! (chuckling) DB: No, none of it tasted--that asafetida you had around your neck didn' ; t smell good, either, when you went to school! BB: Did she make you wear that? DB: Ahh, all winter! BB: What did it have in it? The little bags? DB: It had asafetida! You ever smell asafetida? BB: No! DB: Oh, Lord! BB: What' ; s it made of? DB: Oh, I mean, it' ; s asafetida, I guess! (laughing) DB: But you can smell that stuff--I tell you, it' ; s just something. And you wore it all winter, see. BB: Oh you did? DB: Yeah! That-- BB: To prevent colds, or what? DB: To keep off the cold. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And you wore it just like you wear necklaces. Strapped around your neck--I mean tied around your neck with a string! And all the kids wore ' ; em, so you didn' ; t smell ' ; em, ' ; cause-- BB: You didn' ; t smell any worse than anybody else. DB: We all smelled just alike. ' ; Cause nobody' ; d take a bath or [indecipherable]. BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that' ; s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that' ; s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let' ; s see, that' ; s what--five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we' ; d just three teams, and so I wasn' ; t needed. So I went to--and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and--until they went to--well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that' ; s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that' ; s the same where I stayed there. And that' ; s where I went--was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then--which wasn' ; t very long. We didn' ; t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed--the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at--right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? DB: Norfolk! Yeah. And so we was lined up there, getting ready to go on a trip, and take examination before--you had to take a examination before. And there was twelve of us lined up to take examination, and this doctor--which was a sergeant--I mean a lieutenant colonel--and before he got in there, phone rang and he went back and the war was over. They' ; d told him. Well, we' ; d enlisted for the duration and he turned us right around and we right around and went to the pay window and got paid off before we ever put on a stitch of clothes. That' ; s how quick they got us out of the Merchant Marines! BB: Well, when was it that you went into the Army? Before that? DB: Nineteen--no, I was nineteen after I come back. BB: Yeah. DB: From there. We come back and I got to thinking about it, and it was the only time that I' ; d ever have a chance to go over, you know, to that country, anyhow, and so, they--that army of occupation--remember them talking about the electrical coming over in and, was over in Germany on the Rhine River there for thirty-two months. BB: Okay, now tell me about this incident that happened in--May 13, 1920? DB: Well, there wasn' ; t much to it. It' ; s just--all I done was just went out a ways in that waters from out there, jerked off my coat in from out there and got that--picked up that baby, and-- BB: Did it fall in the water or what? DB: Yeah. It fell, fell out of the boat into the water. BB: Oh! DB: And it was floatin' ; ! The river was up, up big. And it was up to the banks of--way, way up there. And so, then of course, when I got--I could get to the bank with it, I had to swim, I couldn' ; t turn, they kept going down the bank, I had to swim at an angle and--with that baby--and so--I said baby, it was about a two-year-old. And so that was what it was all about. And then of course there was many that helped there, to, you know, that helped me out-- BB: Helped get you out, then. When did you come back from the army of occupation? [break in recording] DB: --we were talking about the Rhine. BB: Yeah. DB: Well, then the next summer, why the river got so low that the [indecipherable] was up normal, I bought a place there, it was four story high and built like a castle. I was gonna make money there, I was gonna rent it out to soldiers, you know, make kind of a rooming house out of it. Well, the outside just kept a' ; going down and going down and finally dried up and it was sitting there on dry ground! (chuckling) I was sitting there with nothing, just an old house sitting on a dry ground. But anyhow, when I bought that, I first took out forty marks to the dollar. The first dollar I got over there paid--we' ; d exchange it for German money, got forty marks to the dollar. And then the last one that I changed I got sixteen thousand. But you see, the stuff hadn' ; t gone up any higher. You could buy stuff for the same price at sixteen thousand for the dollar as you could for, for forty for the dollar. And then we was kings, that was all, really rich. And really had a time. And so, you' ; d get a good meal. Of course it was horse meat, we knew that. But then you could get a good meal for about seventy-eight cents and I [indecipherable] there and I got a shave every morning and a haircut every Saturday morning for inspection, and the highest barber bill I ever paid was seven cents. I kept a room--they' ; d pull out cards, you got white, blue, and red--and pink. Well, you started at the bottom and then you build yourself up. You got a white one, you didn' ; t have to stand on formation on Saturdays, Sundays--of course, you know, on Sunday they don' ; t have it. On Saturday. You didn' ; t have to be in bed on Saturday or Sunday night, all you had to do was be there Monday morning, you know, for revile. And so I went downtown and got a room in a hotel, there was a sitting room and a little--wasn' ; t a kitchen, but a sitting room and a library and bedroom. And it cost me twenty-five cents a month. So I kept that for, oh, I don' ; t know, several months. And anyhow, she began to talk around and [indecipherable] lip, this that and the other, and I asked one day, what was the matter with her? She said that she was gonna have to raise the rent. And I said, Why don' ; t you? She said, Well, she was afraid I' ; d leave and that was because it was after the war and the town was full of empty rooms, you know. And she--I asked her how much, I said, Tell me how much? She said, Well, she' ; d have to have so many marks, I don' ; t remember, but anyhow after that I had to pay twenty-seven cents instead of the twenty-five, you know. And you could get about a hundred miles from Koblenz to Cologne, they had big cathedral, a big cathedral up there. And I used to go up there and we had to leave on Saturday morning so we could stay all night up there and have Sunday to run around. And we was supposed to leave there, leave away from there at twelve o' ; clock midnight on Sunday night, but the train didn' ; t come in there ' ; til about 12:30 and of course there' ; s a [indecipherable] in the depot, why those MPs didn' ; t say nothing to you if you didn' ; t bother ' ; em. But anyway, we just barely get in, take just about around six hours to--for that train to go that hundred miles. We could' ; ve picked up every milk can and delivered every empty milkcan and everything else. BB: When did you get out of the Army? DB: (pause) Must' ; ve been--I just don' ; t know. [Inaudible] I sure don' ; t. BB: Do you have any idea how many--about how long you were in the army? DB: Well, I was in the army for thirty-two months--about three year. Three year. BB: Three year. DB: I was overseas thirty-two months. BB: Yeah. DB: I got a furlough. See, I come home from Germany on a furlough, month' ; s furlough, and then when, when I went back to New York--I was stationed on New Rochelle Island out just about, oh, eight or nine miles, something like that, from New York City, out in the ocean there. And they had--that' ; s where they had the guys come in. That' ; s where they landed, went out there. And so I put in, when I went back, for a furlough on a Sunday--I mean a Friday night. And I was supposed to [indecipherable] some mail to Hamburg, Germany. And I went in, and the major there in the office, he told me, he said, Baker, he said, There' ; s nothing I can do about it, said, These orders come from overseas, and he said, Ain' ; t nothing I can do about it. Well, Monday morning when I was supposed to leave I had my bags packed full of stuff, of course, I took it up there and I--and that' ; s one thing I swore to do, you never go by a blackboard without looking up there to see if he was on duty. And then he knows what to do for the day, [indecipherable]. And when I got up there, I looked up there, and I' ; d been transferred out to Camp Dixon, New Jersey. [Indecipherable] somewhere, you know, so that' ; s where I spent the rest of the time. That' ; s where I went back on furlough. I was gonna surprise dad and mom and all of ' ; em on furlough, and I had a pocketbook that the girl over there had got me for Christmas. And I had my money in it--you had to show three hundred dollars, for that' ; s enough to get you from New York home and back. And then they took care of getting to the boat and the boat ride, so you didn' ; t have to pay for that. And somebody got it, stoled it. I was using that--they used them--the lifeguard was blocks, about that thick square, of some kind of foam, and it had that ducking so [inaudible]. And I split one of them and put this pocketbook in there. Well, when we get there I want peanuts. I told the guy I' ; d pay for it, and we [indecipherable] and he said okay and well, I went to get the money and there wasn' ; t a bit in there, somebody' ; d got every bit of it. So when we got in there I had to call dad, have him to cash bonds at American National Bank, send to me for I could come home, see. BB: Well, let' ; s get back to your early days of--you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type-- BB: What' ; d you do? What' ; d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we--the name of them I--don' ; t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that--that was a type of dancin' ; that the folks didn' ; t know it, see. BB: Was it-- DB: They' ; d let us go to a dance, but we' ; d go to a party and they' ; d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow-- BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That' ; s-- BB: Really square dancing, wasn' ; t it? DB: And then that square dancing, yeah. But I can' ; t remember what we played, one of ' ; em was you ran a ring around and then you had some kind of cards and you drew these cards and then you had a judge sitting over there and you drew these cards. You hand to him and he would pair you up to somebody, then he was to judge whether--with a girl, see, a boy and a girl. And he was to judge and [indecipherable] you go out to the gate and back, or you do this or that, something like--just some silly thing, see. BB: Yeah. DB: And that--I don' ; t know what they called it, but that one, we played that one. BB: Well, what was the rules on courting? DB: Well, wasn' ; t a whole lot. Of course you didn' ; t go to courting no ten or eleven year old, stuff like that. BB: How old were you, and the girls too, how old were they when they were allowed to be out with the boys? DB: Well, dad never did--he never did say a word to me about--him or mom either one, about when I started courting. Because when we, when we was walking--we' ; d walk to church over there from that place, and the Smiths lived on the right, one of the girls I was talking about getting killed. And the Sloanes lived up about three quarters of a mile up the other way. Well, I come in, they both was afraid to go home in the dark. I' ; d have to take this one home, the Smiths home first ' ; cause that was just a quarter, see, then I' ; d come back and have to take Ira (ph) home and come back. BB: (chuckles) DB: That was every time we went to church, that' ; s what happened! BB: You walked ' ; em home. DB: Yeah, I walked ' ; em home. And that was where I just got in the habit of it and then Birdie--you remember my cousin, you know, Birdie-- BB: Birdie Dykes. DB: Yeah, Birdie Dykes. Me and her was just like two peas in a pod. I mean, we was together every minute we could. But a lot of Saturdays, why, I started over there and me and her' ; d come over to our house. We hunted, we fished, we done everything together. And so lots of times I' ; d go over there when [indecipherable] night when there was gonna be a party somewhere, you know, and then we' ; d go to the party and then I wouldn' ; t have to go back across the creek. So it just, it just--for me it just come in natural. And I didn' ; t get a riding horse until I was about fifteen year old. And however, dad would take--we had a little team of ponies, he called ' ; em ' ; cultivator ponies,' ; and he' ; d--that was after we got to going to dances, you know. He' ; d take them out at noon, he wouldn' ; t work ' ; em that afternoon and let them rest that afternoon for us to--me and Wayne to ride to church--I mean to dances. BB: Did you ever go to a chivaree? DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What did they do at chivarees? DB: Well, they--well it was before, before, what they done before a chivaree! (laughing) BB: (laughing) DB: But we never could find out! You know, did you ever know [indecipherable]? Well, we went to their chivaree, one time. Let' ; s see, that was in--in nineteen-and-sixteen. And so, wouldn' ; t let us in the house, we was knockin' ; on the door and they wouldn' ; t let us in the house, [indecipherable] hollered, Get away from here, and stuff like that. And, so we finally--Ms. Morgan--she owned that, that' ; s her--her place, she opened the door and let us in. And then she had to make them open the door to the bedroom. And [indecipherable name], you know how she' ; d talk, some of ' ; em said, What the heck was you thinkin' ; about anyhow, she wouldn' ; t let us in here? She said, I don' ; t know, but we wasn' ; t thinking about no chivarees! (laughs) BB: (laughing) DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened--of course, this happened after I got back from the service--you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was--when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah--I want to get, I' ; ll hear about that now. DB: Well-- BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin' ; out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn' ; t--she wouldn' ; t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin' ; around her, around her lookin' ; at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never--no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That-- BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was--when we got engaged? BB: Mm-hmm. DB: Well, I was twenty-two. BB: How old was she? DB: Twenty. And she was engaged to Fred Mattox (ph). And so, at that time I was riding with twenty-two girls. Oh, I mean forty-two girls. BB: (laughing) DB: And a staff sergeant, and I would write--back then paper was just--as Terry (ph) knows--was just thin as, as a tissue paper. And you could write twenty copies at a time. And I' ; d write twenty letters--I wrote two letters! Two of ' ; em got the originals and the rest of ' ; em got copies! BB: (laughing) DB: My buddies would give me their sisters' ; address and their cousins' ; address and so I was the only one, really, in the whole bunch that showed any sign of Christianity. And so, the highest school--Sunday school--highest number I ever had in Sunday school was 500. Was right out in the street with, just, right off the street there. And then I got this Mary (ph), I kept writin' ; to her, and her letters just got--well, like I said, [indecipherable], see? And we' ; d then, we' ; d run around together all the time, just in groups. And I never walked her home in her life, and I never had a date or nothin' ; , and so [indecipherable] standin' ; out and I just cut the rest of ' ; em, you know, and I just write less often, and I was writin' ; to her, and I kept a' ; writin' ; to Betty Higgins (ph). UM: I don' ; t think I remember her. DB: You didn' ; t know her. Well, she never [indecipherable] and he--Levi, her husband--I mean, her brother--was about my age and Betty was--and Bessie was about the same age. And mom wouldn' ; t let Bessie go to parties and stuff then without--or dances--so I went with her, so I decided to go with her. And, well, and the same way, about Higgins, and so--naturally I' ; d walk with Betty and he' ; d walk with Bessie, you know. Well, that Betty, she was a mess. But anyhow, to make a long story short, she wrote me a letter while I was in Germany, the night before she got married. I didn' ; t even know they was goin' ; together. John Morton, you remember him? Well, that' ; s who, that' ; s who she married. And she (laughing)--she wrote me one of the durndest, mushiest letters you ever read! Well, I just fired one right back to her, you know? And John got ahold of it. Man, that sucker wouldn' ; t speak to me for two year after I got back. They got married the next day after she wrote it! They were already married before she got my letter! And I sent that mushy letter! (laughing) Both of us just fun, you know, it didn' ; t mean a thing, I didn' ; t--she was just a friend, that' ; s all she was to me, because she was too durned--oh, I don' ; t know. Now this might--the schoolteacher was a young schoolteacher there, and so we' ; d have things to do of a week. Literary on Wednesday night, you know, where we' ; d have Bible study now. And I' ; d walk her home, see, now nobody' ; s going over there and I' ; d walk her home [indecipherable] and I' ; d come right over the hill to the house. And, well, she was going to give a party to where she stayed. And Betty knew it, and so I went over there to pick her up to go to this party. And I said, Well, [indecipherable] or two. I said, We gotta go if we' ; re goin' ; get there before this, this party' ; s over. And she said, You' ; re gonna stay here, [indecipherable] you and the party. And I said, No, I ain' ; t either. And she said, Doc, there' ; s a party here. And I said, Well good, just give it--goodbye! I just took off! Because I' ; d already been invited to that other--she' ; s just doin' ; that just for meanness, see? And she did, she had her a party that [indecipherable] other at the other party. BB: Well. Where did you and Edna get married at? DB: Courthouse in Bristow. BB: In Bristow? And-- DB: We, we stepped up there, I had a suit at the laundry, and she had the dress up there, we wore old clothes, and we got a little train into Bristow. We changed clothes after we got in Bristow. Her brother went to the--up to the courthouse with her. I followed afterwards. We got married. He took her down and I waited a while, went down, we both went and changed back clothes. Got back on the streets, she went one way and I went the other. And then when she got with the girls, why, of course we was watchin' ; , see, when they got with the girls, why then, I went down there, and we acted just like we' ; d just met. And so, we rode that train back out home-- BB: Now, which train are you talking about, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: What, what train are you talking-- DB: That little train out from Bristow to Slick. BB: Okay. DB: That went down through the country. BB: The one that the tracks went south of Bristow? DB: Yeah, south of Bristow and we crossed it down--you remember where we used to cross that railroad track? BB: That crossed just north-- DB: The other side of Deep Fork? BB: Yeah, north of the Deep Fork bridge-- DB: That one, yeah, run right through them bottoms on there. BB: Okay. DB: And, so there was [indecipherable] farmers down there then, you know, and there was a branch there you could sit on and that was the depot where you waited for it, you know, to arrive. And we went home and we got there about four or four thirty, and so we sat there and talked for a little while and drank some lemonade. I took off for home, and I didn' ; t see her for a week. BB: (chuckles) DB: [Indecipherable name] and Georgia Henderson was gonna--they' ; d been goin' ; together for years--and they was gonna be the next to get married. Well, I just thought let' ; s slip up there and get--off and go up there and get married, and that' ; s how come we was to not see one another for a week after that, just to keep them from knowin' ; . And then we really could pour it on ' ; em when they found it out, you know. BB: Yeah. Let' ; s see, and you and Edna just had the one son, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. He' ; s sittin' ; right over there. BB: Yeah. What' ; s his full name? DB: (laughing) BB: Terry-- DB: Terry Howe. H-O-W-E. BB: And when was Terry born? DB: When was you born, Terry? TB: Twenty-eight. BB: Twenty-eight? TB: Twenty-eight. DB: Yeah, in twenty-eight, but what--August the sixteenth? TB: October. DB: October, wasn' ; t it? Yeah. October the when? TB: Sixteen. DB: Sixteen. Yeah, I [indecipherable] next time. BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ' ; em? DB: No, not that--there was plenty outlaws but-- BB: You didn' ; t-- DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin' ; out here. Dad had to--got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn' ; t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ' ; em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin' ; on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ' ; em from getting' ; stole. That' ; s what this--the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin' ; fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew-- BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That' ; s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff like that was, was sent to, there was--see that, Indian Territory, that was government. And he was a government judge, now, a federal judge. And the only one that was around. And this stuff was all sent to him. I mean, all the people were. And I saw his old hanging tree. Of course it' ; s nearly all dead now, but the bowl (ph) was still there last summer. BB: In Fort Smith? DB: In Van Buren. I mean, in Fort Smith, yeah, on there right there on the Arkansas River banks, [indecipherable]. BB: Do you know whether or not the Indians was for or against statehood? DB: I never did, and I never heard ' ; em say, they' ; d never given us no trouble, and--of course, that' ; s all we had to play with was colored people and the Indians, you know. And of course the Indians didn' ; t go to school, and well the colored people didn' ; t, either. There was that little old school house when we first started. But the Indians had a mile and a half north--west of where lived in nineteen-eight. And which is three mile and a half south of town, two miles east, and a half a mile north. You know where that old Indian stomp ground is over there? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: Well, that was a big, big Indian camp. There was teepees all over that place. And they would get big dinners and we' ; d, we went over there to different stomp dances, you know, and a big time, big [indecipherable]. And we' ; d go over there and--it was just [indecipherable] fact, when the dinner got ready, the whites eat first and then the Indians would eat, and then the colored people eat. BB: But everybody was welcomed? DB: Everybody was welcome, yeah, everybody was welcome, but that was--and you' ; d tie a horse up out there--well, first [indecipherable], but used to be one at Gypsy? Remember that, when I was talkin' ; to you about it over there? I used to go there, to tie a horse up out there somewhere. Next morning he wouldn' ; t be there, all you had to do was go down to the barn down there and he' ; d be in there in the stall area, eatin' ; hay. They' ; d take ' ; em down there and unsaddle ' ; em. First time they done that, man, we was [indecipherable], we just knowed our horses had been stoled, you know? BB: You worked in the oil--when did--you worked in the oil fields, when did you start working in the oil fields? DB: Nineteen seventeen. BB: And did you-- DB: At Shamrock, the hill camp, Shamrock. BB: Was it for Tibbens (ph)? DB: No, it was for the, it was for a private Frenchman that was tearing down oil rigs, buying oil rigs and tearin' ; ' ; em down, and then rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d--see, they' ; d rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d tear them, make them rigs out of wood, the drilling rigs. Then that would be tore down and them little iron rigs, you know, to pull rod and tubing, oh you saw them all over the country, [indecipherable] come later. And I was sittin' ; in on top of that thing, in grandpa' ; s cornfield, and he come down there and he said, What in the hell are you doin' ; up there? Well that scared the dickens out of me, I knowed I was just blowed up. And I got down and he wanted to know where I lived. And I told him, and, he said what I was doin' ; up there? And I--no, he said, now, You want a job? And, How old are you? And I said I was nineteen. And so he said, Well I can' ; t hire you at that--at that age. And--or I would' ; ve been ninetween in a little bit. But anyhow, that' ; s what they [inaudible], so he said, You got anybody up here? And I told him my grandfather lives up there, and he said, Let' ; s go talk to him. Well, he asked him about it and he said, No, I was buildin' ; rigs, said, Tearin' ; down that rig. He said, I want him to tear down that rig, so I went to tear the rig down, and I want him to pull the nails and stack the lumber, that' ; s what he told grandpa. So it was alright. That was my first oilfield. BB: When did you start to work for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Nineteen twenty-six. BB: What did you do working for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Well, you know, it was all rigs then, there wasn' ; t no jack-- [tape ends, beginning of second tape] DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn' ; t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn' ; t know it was gettin' ; darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye--I was--yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn' ; t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived--she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we' ; d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for--took off up there. Well, they wasn' ; t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, and we was in their bed. And she saw us, boy, she took the cover off of us and gave out a yell and you talk about coming out of it, we did, you know. So she had us get in another bed so they could have their bed. And we got, took off for home. And then way after (indecipherable), the old man that we lived--or leased off of, he was an old Indian fighter, and he was a mean sucker. So them days, when you got your corn gathered for your--well, if it was betweenst that and your cotton, you know, and then turn your stock into this cornfield so the grazing' ; d save you feed. Well he told dad he couldn' ; t do it. And dad told him, you know, dad kind of went to town and got him one of those .22 six shooters (laughing). And I looked down there and that old man sat there, back to a tree with a shotgun, wherever he was gonna start putting this fence. So, dad, he slipped around down there and he kept lookin' ; at him, and finally he convinced his self that that old man was asleep, sittin' ; there leanin' ; up in that tree. So he slipped up there with a six shooter and took the gun away from the old man. Then the old man had to--he had one of those spells, he just couldn' ; t do anything anymore. Just, I don' ; t--what, what made him do it, but anyhow. And after he got over his mad spell, why, he said, Oh John, let' ; s get this fence fixed. He come out there and worked right in in helping us fix the fence, you know. Then his son sold the gun after that. Then he didn' ; t have it no time more. So, but, his oldest son--sold it. BB: Did you have Christmas trees? DB: Yeah. Oh, we went out to cut ' ; em. BB: Yeah. DB: Yeah. BB: What--how did you, how were they decorated? DB: Oh, we' ; d pop popcorn and we' ; d make strings, big long strings of popcorn on threads, you know. And we' ; d go to the woods and get them little red berries and then we' ; d go put (indecipherable) in the bottoms and there was a little bunch of--there was a little flower, bunch of flowers come up and they' ; d have the two little red--red crocus--that' ; s what (indecipherable) called ' ; em. And then there was a winter something, they called ' ; em. That' ; s when they bloomed was in winter. Of course, it would freeze after the--there was a hard freeze, you know, and we found some of them. Stuff like that, that was the only thing we had. Never thought about buying anything. BB: Did you exchange gifts? DB: Yeah. BB: Did you make your gifts, were they-- DB: Well, yeah, but they--dad, mom, they made ' ; em, you know. Most of ' ; em was socks, dresses, stuff like that. And maybe, when dad' ; d get two little sacks of candy, we' ; d get sticks of candy, a candy apiece, you know. And they' ; d get their sacks of them, these little--nickel apiece, two sacks of nickel--course (indecipherable) candy sacks. And that' ; s about the only gifts they exchanged. BB: What did you use for overshoes in the winter? Did you buy oversh-- DB: Flour sacks wrapped around your feet. BB: How' ; d you keep ' ; em on your feet? DB: Tied ' ; em on there with baling wire. Yeah. BB: That was all the overshoes you had? DB: That was all the shoes I ever had. We had--a little later, we had rubber boots. You could get around wet with ' ; em but you better not start nowhere in snow or something, I mean, your feet would nearly freeze off and then (indecipherable). But--see, when it snows, that sack' ; s tied around (indecipherable) (laughing). BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all--after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents-- BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you' ; d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would--later have to cotton gin' ; s got to--see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you' ; d get in here first thing you' ; re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their--all had their cotton buyers. Well you' ; d go up there and just park. Here' ; d come a cotton buyer. He' ; d dig down in there and he' ; d see what kind of cotton you had and they' ; d give you a bid on it. You' ; d sit there all day ' ; til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you' ; d leave where it' ; s three or four o' ; clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o' ; clock at night. Just--just how all waitin' ; up here ' ; til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they' ; d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? DB: Yeah, sold it to the highest bidder. And it' ; d be long line lined up down at the gin. I know dad got so (indecipherable) mad one time, I went with him to take in a load of cotton and we waited, got in line, and so that--there was five or six wagons in line. Like I said, you had to unload it by hand, you know, throw it in them windows. Well I got hungry. Dad didn' ; t come back. And I got hungry and so I drove my team out to the side and went in there and he come back. Well, it hadn' ; t been unloaded and there it was. So it was still in line, you know. He didn' ; t like that much, either. [break in tape] DB: ' ; Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn' ; t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had--the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn' ; t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know' ; d ' ; em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know--that' ; s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they' ; d put ' ; em in there to sober ' ; em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that' ; s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service--I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked--I come almost gettin' ; back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong--the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they--up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how--the stores, they was all separate. They didn' ; t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ' ; em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. BB: They weren' ; t connected. DB: No. I remember one time, daddy was working at Shamrock, that' ; s before I went up there. On Saturday he' ; d always bring a quart of Four Rose Whiskey with him. Me and Jay Dykes (ph) and Artie Dykes (ph) and Wes Bay (ph)--that' ; d be the, make the four of us. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And we' ; d buy--we bought ice cream, we' ; d spike it with that whiskey. BB: (laughing) I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: We vomited all over that town-- BB: (laughing) DB: Old Bill Chrishower (ph) was the Sheriff and I was the only one that had a coat on. Well, when we come out of there I had to have that in my hip pocket, see? And you know, the coats were spread back then? And old Bill hollered at me. Man, I took off down between one of them (indecipherable) buildings, just as I got to the corner up there, he got to the other corner up there, and he hollered and said, Should I getcha? You know, he said, Cover up that damn bottle you got in your pocket! Me and--one time, old Artie, he was just about to finish up a bottle, and threw it. We was--threw it down in the toilet. The toilets back then--we' ; d go in there and drink. BB: Outdoor toilets? DB: Yeah. And so he just started to take the direction of (indecipherable). One of ' ; em said, Here comes the law. Man he just dropped that right down in that hole, you know. (laughter) He sure trusted whoever--I (indecipherable). BB: I wouldn' ; t think so. DB: Ah, boy. BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type-- DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks--and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham--well, Joe first had the--had the first little--well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw--maybe you got one--them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember--they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he' ; d have ' ; em--he' ; d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his-- BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking--stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. DB: Just stuff-that' ; s all. Just had cooking, cooking stuff. But in a year, went from there to a horse, and of course from that to a buggy, and then to a car. But then there was a little confectionary on the east side there--that' ; s where the guy, that' ; s where I got the first good chewing tobacco. I was eleven then. Dad was working out there on the tank farm with a team of horses. We had a little team of mares and they built them big pits around them tanks, you know, to keep the oil from leaking out--to hold the oil? Well them big horses--the dykes just about that wide on the top, you know, them big horses tired down and the others, they could walk along there. And so my lip then--nineteen ten, eleven twelve, oh, later part of eleven and the first part of twelve--what right there would have a big knot and it come up right there and break, and it' ; d go from there to the corner of my mouth and just turn wrong side out. And they' ; d get so bad sometimes and dad wouldn' ; t even let me go to school. And I' ; d go out and plow all that off with salve on that lip and a piece of cloth over it, and holding that cloth on there with my upper lip, see? Well, dad come home once after he left and went to work up there and I' ; d finished up farming. He come home on Saturday night--' ; course he did every Saturday night, of course, he' ; d stay all night--and he said, Well, dad you get ' ; er finished? And I said, Yeah. And he said, Well I talked to the boss, said, said You can drive the team and I can work (indecipherable) and I' ; m ready to get you some crew clothes. So we went up there the next morning--well that night though, Sunday night, Sunday evening, dad called Doc King and he come down there to the office, and he was the one that drew this salve and stuff got for my lip. So he looked at that lip and he said My! Well after he looked at it and turned me loose--and I went on down and rounded up with some of the kids I knew that I was playing with, you know, here in town, so with them--so he asked dad, said if I chewed tobacco. Or used tobacco. Dad said, well, he said, probably like any other boy, why, he was (indecipherable) and stuff like that, said, I don' ; t know, I never saw him. He said, Well, he said, I hate to put any kid on tobacco, but he said, Nicotine is the only thing in the world I know that' ; ll cure that mouth. Said, He' ; s got some kind of a blood disease. He said we' ; ve never found out what that (indecipherable) you know, medicine. But he said-- BB: Who was the doctor? DB: King. BB: Oh. DB: Doc King. And so he, he cut that--he got a pound, went in and got a pound of Beech-Nut plug, that' ; s what he used. He cut half into it and give me half of it. Well, I thought he was pulling my leg, you know, and I said, I don' ; t use that stuff. And when he told me what King said, well, of course, first time or two I was so sick I couldn' ; t hardly do nothing but vomit and, well I finally got used to it. He said I' ; d taken too big a chew. So I guess I started off with--I know I wound up taking too big a chew, my whole jaw' ; s full and here--but anyhow, when that half pound of tobacco was gone I had one little spot right there and I went and got a--he got another (indecipherable) for it, they had them dime squares about like that and they was marked off and then you' ; d cut one of ' ; em (indecipherable), looks like a, oh a, well it' ; s just a big handle and you put--lay the tobacco down there and there was a (indecipherable) and this knife, just put it right down and it cuts it and leave the wrapper on it too, didn' ; t cut that stuff-- BB: It wasn' ; t wrapped or anything. DB: Huh? BB: The tobacco-- DB: No, no, no, it was just (indecipherable) laying over there. And so that--(indecipherable), I still didn' ; t care about chewing tobacco. And so I found out dad, when he come--it went about middle of school and started getting sore again. It got sore again. And somebody told me--I don' ; t know whether the doctor told dad or dad told me or not, but he said, If you' ; d rather, when it gets that down, we could roll him some cigarettes then there' ; d be enough (indecipherable) in the cigarettes to hold it down for a while, and said, What' ; s next. I never could chew tobacco in the house, I couldn' ; t spit and hit a tub, I' ; m telling you, it was all over the floor. I don' ; t think I ever chewed tobacco and taken--standing in the door, maybe, talking to (indecipherable) you know, when I was working, before when I left, because (indecipherable) got back home, you know, but-- BB: Did you ever smoke, Dillard? DB: Yeah, I was smoking cigarettes then. I smoked for around, ' ; til nineteen seventy-two. ' ; Til-- BB: That' ; s quite a while, wasn' ; t it? DB: Yeah, and I chewed all the time, too, you know. And--oh, but I worked so much by myself, and you wouldn' ; t--[indecipherable]--but, if you' ; d get out with a cigarette, or just chew tobacco, [indecipherable] good drink or a good warm kind of water and take you a smoke then take you another drink, well you could go back and work a long time. It was company! Really company. Then after we moved up yonder, I was going day and night when [indecipherable] and I was--I kept a pipe in my mouth. Edna said I just smoked once a day, and that was from morning ' ; til night. BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your-- DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I' ; ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I' ; ve never been a--even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I' ; d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ' ; em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to--the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit--chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I' ; ll belch. And that' ; s how, that' ; s with chili. And just a time or two and it' ; s over, you know. But that' ; s the only thing, I never-- BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that' ; s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn' ; t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. DB: About ' ; 65. Well, anyhow I, I wouldn' ; t tell [indecipherable]. Boy, I was just a' ; dyin' ; nearly then. Just wanted to go to the toilet there all the time, you' ; d go and not a drop. And so when they left I called Chapman and told him, and he told me I needed to hospital. And I did, gave me a catheter. Well, I got along pretty good after that for a little bit, and then it hit again. That time, well, I wore the catheter for a week and it was a little one, that tube was too dang little, and [indecipherable] leak, and then that turned to crystallize, and that was eatin' ; me up. And I called to ' ; em, I said, That durned stuff' ; s eatin' ; me up, with that little tube in there leakin' ; down in there. So I asked ' ; em, they said, Well you know how to take it out, don' ; t you? And I said, Yeah. Well, okay. And anyhow, the next time it hit it was so thick, he said, I' ; m not gonna take no chances on it. Said, I' ; m going to Tulsa. Sent me up there, went Sunday evening and the intern come in there before I went to bed, take my fever and stuff from the nurse. And I was having fits. And the nurse said, Well you' ; re not touching him, and she went back and got a doctor. And he come back and he had--he had to drill that catheter in there, then, that pus was so heavy that it just--drilled in-- BB: It wasn' ; t malignant or anything. DB: No, it wasn' ; t. He finally got through and he told me, he said, Baker, I wouldn' ; t touch that with a ten-foot pole with a knife. He said, I just wouldn' ; t. And I laid there ' ; til the next Monday morning. Around ' ; 65,' ; 67, somewhere around there. BB: Did you ever have any serious illnesses other than that? DB: Pneumonia. Well, when I was eleven--when I was nine I had pneumonia. And then that fall I had pneumonia, a pneumonia fever, and started school and had to go back. And that' ; s when I started turning gray. My hair was just black as the dickens and when I was four or five year old it had curls hanging way down here, you know, two in front and three behind. BB: You-- DB: Mama wouldn' ; t stand the curls, she-- BB: She wouldn' ; t cut your hair, and you were four or five years old? DB: Yeah! They were never been cut! BB: Did she ever put dresses on you? DB: ' ; Til I was four year old, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: That' ; s the [indecipherable]. I wore dresses ' ; til I was four year old. And when--[indecipherable] they' ; d make fun of ' ; em, about my hair one time. And I did have pretty hair! BB: And it came down past your shoulders. DB: Yeah! It hung way down here, you know. BB: Black and curly. DB: And mom and dad rode right in one evening, they' ; d been down to Indian Springs, went home and they was gonna chop a little piece of cotton over there, finish up cotton or something. And of course, I wasn' ; t big enough then to, you know, go and work the field. And boy when they got out, I got them scissors and I got a hold in there, I chopped it off just as fast and hard as I could up there. And this side the same way, you know. We couldn' ; t get the-- BB: So you-- DB: I thought mama was gonna have a fit when she come in there. BB: [chuckling] DB: Lordy, lordy. BB: So you got rid of your long hair, right? DB: Yeah. That' ; s right. I sure did. [break in recording] DB: They say they--all the murderin' ; all that time was--I was, we' ; s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb--Harrison Webb had shot one of--hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where--oh, I' ; d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over--can' ; t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow--the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That' ; s the only murder that was--and then it was about, since 19-5, that' ; d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. [break in recording] DB: And he would hide that whiskey all over town. BB: Now this was your whiskey peddler. DB: Yeah! Yeah, he lived right up here. And [indecipherable] Tom liked to have a pint of whiskey. Now you go right up here and look in the such-and-such board, under a rock, it' ; d be there. And he was, okay, I' ; ll do it. And the depot, in the men' ; s room there was loose board under there. And you' ; d go up there. And if it was gone or it leaked or anything, go tell him, I mean he' ; d clean it up. Bill Baker' ; s, he had a blacksmith shop down here, [indecipherable] stuff up there. He' ; s sitting on his--one of those one-wheel planters? Tom come by and he told him, he called out and said, Tom, said, We' ; re about ready to go. Said, I' ; d like to have a half pint of alcohol. Tom said, Okay, Mr. Bill! He said, When I get goin' ; , just lift that lid there and reach down into there--and he sat right over it all the time, you know. BB: [laughing] UM: [laughing] DB: But yeah, they called him Tom Abraham because he worked for Tom--or Abraham. They called him Tom Abraham. And they' ; d arrest him and take him to Sapulpa and we' ; d all--bunch of us' ; d be out at the depot, you know, he' ; d say, Don' ; t worry, boys! He said, I' ; ll be back quick as hare, and sure enough he' ; d come back here. And I don' ; t know whether he paid fines or what, but he always come back here. They never left that guy in Sapulpa. UM: Hmm. [break in recording] BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard' ; s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen' ; s Luncheons--well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren' ; t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the--today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I' ; m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. [break in recording] DB: And then-- BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin' ; pipe, doin' ; all kinds of manual labor. And, well that--it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin' ; anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was--had that foreman' ; s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties--yeah, thirties. And that was just--well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building--drillin' ; a new well and we' ; d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin' ; and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move--where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved--I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. DB: Yeah. And you went south there, you know. Had a big tower over there. And I lived over there. And then I went back to the Tibbens in another house on the west side, and then I was moved from there to a house on the--I mean, out on the east side. And by that time I was repairman. And we' ; d be called out all hours of the night. If a belt broke on one of the wells, why you had to fix it. And the foreman wanted me to be a lot closer to him, see, he lived there in that old [indecipherable] house they had there, rooming house. BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let' ; s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was-- BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn' ; t affect us too much. We, we had--we didn' ; t have no money, wasn' ; t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that--we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods--flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill--my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That' ; s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at--you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and--all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon--and then at six o' ; clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well-- BB: Was there much dust in this area? DB: Yeah, no, not that I, no--there was a lot of dust, but what I mean, it didn' ; t ruin nothing, it didn' ; t ruin everything. But it was dry, but then there wasn' ; t--there was--we couldn' ; t have been counted in the dust bowl because the dust bowl was further west of us. BB: Did you know--had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy' ; d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule--this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we' ; d come to our--of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules--one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that' ; s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he' ; s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn' ; t. BB: Okay. [break in recording] DB: Let' ; s see, got married in ' ; 22 and that was that winter of ' ; 22. Why, we moved to Pryor. ' ; Course we went through Claremore and it was probably twenty miles east of Claremore. And so we had two wagons and I drove, of course, the cattle through there and Edna drove a young team of mules, just had been broke, all the way from here plum down there, through Tulsa, you know-- BB: Now, tell us the route through Tulsa. DB: Oh, we went right straight up where it is now. Right straight up and across the 11th street bridge. That was the only one that was there. Wasn' ; t any more bridge across the Arkansas then. And eleventh street went right straight on north. BB: Was it a dirt road? DB: Dirt? Oh yeah, everything was dirt roads up there then. I guess maybe some of the main streets, I don' ; t know what happened up in the main part of town, but I mean that was--yeah, it was, it was dirt roads. And then we went--when we got to reach the side of town, on the north side--well it would probably be the east side, then we went north about, oh I don' ; t know--several blocks and then straight into Claremore. And then you went straight in to--to--what' ; s it called, I said-- UM: Pryor. DB: Pryor, yeah. From there. And come a snowfall, we was going, and we spread our tarp over some limbs and Edna and [indecipherable] and I slept in one bed, moved a mattress down there and all three of us slept in the bed that night. And so they had no trouble, just no trouble at all, there was cattle going right down eleventh street there. BB: Eleventh street in Tulsa. DB: Yeah. Yeah. And then, got up there and, well I come back to Bristow then and I was gonna farm. I bought a team of mules and-- BB: How much did you have to pay for ' ; em? DB: Oh, I paid $120 for the team. And dad had an old hack he didn' ; t think could stay together, that I got up there with, and he was [indecipherable] to use it, and I drove that thing--got in it and drove that mule from here to Pryor. I made it in two days. And of course I used--I parked most of the night both nights, but what I mean, I just stopped one night from the time I left here ' ; til I got in. And I never will forget that, I stopped at--well I don' ; t know where it' ; s named. I stopped in Bristow and got a pint of whiskey, ' ; cause it was pretty chilly. And so [indecipherable]. Wanted to know what in the so-and-so I was doing out at four o' ; clock in the morning. And I went out there, and I told him I wanted some whiskey. And so he got up and opened the door and just went back to bed and said it' ; s over there in that sack. Said, Get you a bottle and get the hell out of here, I want to go to sleep! And he wouldn' ; t let me pay for it. Well, the next morning I got up and where I' ; d put the hay--I slept on the ground, you know, in the hay. And there was a sleeve, a black overcoat sleeve, just enough that I could see it out from under the hay? And man, I mean, it was a brand new overcoat. A heavy one, layin' ; there that somebody' ; d put that hay down and slept on and just left that hay there, you know. And then forgot their coat. And I was glad to see that coat. I picked up a guy, and he hadn' ; t had no breakfast. And I' ; d eat breakfast before I left there. But I asked him, and he didn' ; t have no--just a little jacket on, and it was, like I said, it was chilly and I had on this overcoat I' ; d found. And I asked him, I told him, I said, I got some whiskey, you want a drink? Oh boy, yeah. He took a drink of it and then after a while, he said, Can I have another drink of that? And I said, Yeah. Well, we got to Claremore and we went by a restaurant there and I told him, I said, Now, let' ; s go in and get some breakfast. ' ; Cause it was getting up, oh, pretty close to noon. No, he said, you ain' ; t buying me no breakfast, he said, Boy that whiskey made me all right, he said, I' ; ll get home now. [laughing] So he--he wouldn' ; t let me buy him that meal. But it--then, to match that, I was coming from Pry--from Claremore one time, I mean Pryor one time, in an old car, and between--we got there at Claremore, getting gas, and a guy stepped up and he says, Where you going? And I said, Bristow. And he said, Going through Tulsa? And I said, Yeah. Well, it was two hours before the bus was coming in. It was hot, boy. And we started out. He passed me--I mean the bus passed us about halfway between Pryor--Claremore and Bri--and Tulsa. We' ; d had ' ; em one flat after another and a' ; havin' ; to wait ' ; til it cooled off ' ; fore we could put a patch on it, and so, we-- BB: What type of car was it? DB: Had an old Chevrolet. And old solid--I mean wooden wheel spokes on it, you know, then-- BB: Wooden spokes on the wheel? DB: Yeah. [indecipherable] And so I told him, I come out and told him, I said, Catch that thing, boy, and go on in. Nooo, he said, I started with you, I' ; m gonna stay with you. And he did. We didn' ; t get to Tulsa just at dark. We was from just around noon sometime until dark, getting from Claremore to Tulsa. And-- BB: Because of flats. DB: Yeah, on account of flats, yeah. BB: Do you remember how many you had? DB: No, I know that when the boys pulled it off, R.D. Dykes (ph) and Wes Christian (ph), they drove to town and back and so they had two flats on there, and they were [indecipherable] talking machine needles. They couldn' ; t find out what it was doing, see. And so, and there was twenty-five patches on that tube. Little patches on there. And then--that was what they put on there, see. So it must have twenty-three or twenty--twenty-two or twenty-three, something like that on there. BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well-- BB: A lot of people don' ; t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane--you have to-- BB: You raised sugar cane. DB: Yeah. And that was that yellow ribbon, that' ; s what made the best, clearest sorghum. And so you' ; d strip that thing--stuff--and you' ; d take the leaves and put ' ; em together, a bunch of ' ; em, and hang ' ; em, climb with one leaf and hang ' ; em on the ear of corn. I mean on the--lay it on the ground by the [indecipherable]. And then you went down, you cut the tops out of ' ; em. Then you cut the stalk--it was just a stick. Just a sugar cane stick, that' ; s all it was there. Then you rode it in, take ' ; em by the wagonloads to the mill, which was an old press pulled by horse and mule, and they took one guy--they' ; d pile ' ; em up out there. Pile it up. And they took so much sorghum for making ' ; em. It didn' ; t cost you no money, it was just kind of a barter system all the way through back in there. And so then they took--the guy finished his sorghum, I would have to carry the cane to the guy that was putting it in the press. He had--he sat on a block of wood there with the press and he would put that cane through there one stalk at a time. Well that juice would come out and run down there and go in a bucket. And then it took another one to carry that bucket away. And of course you had two, you know, he' ; d set one down and take that--take it away. The guys was making a sorghum. They had ' ; em in the sorghum pan and he had--that had doors to it--I mean, well, just what they called ' ; em--but anyhow this solid piece would run across over to here and then there was a little door where you pulled that down, and when you started in this last, the first one there, they' ; d cook so long there. You had a strainer, guy with strainers on each side, and they was straining that stuff off all the time as they went down and that took so long there, they' ; d let it in to the next one, and it took so long. And then he' ; d strain that. And then he' ; d let it down and they had four of them compartments. BB: Didn' ; t it have a foam on it that you skimmed off? DB: Yeah. And we had to take that sugar cane, get one of them stalks, you know, and peel it? And boy, it was just sweet, you know. And then we' ; d stir it around in them, that foam that they had in that can, whatever, in there, and lick that off. Boy! BB: [laughing] DB: That was really something. But we used to use about, around thirty to forty gallons a year. BB: A year. DB: Jim Dowdy' ; s folks, he had the four kids, they never bought no sugar. No, they used sorghum for everything. Put in their coffee and cakes, everything they made was made with--sweetened with sorghum. And they used--they used a fifty-two gallon barrel of it every year. From one making to another. BB: Hmm. DB: But you can' ; t buy it now. Now, then, they can' ; t get help. They take the seed of it, but the leaves are left on. They can' ; t, they can' ; t get nobody to work for what they can afford to pay, see. That' ; s what' ; s called strip it with a paddle. Them leaves a' ; hanging down there, and you just--that paddle, you just give it that right down one on each side, you know. And that' ; ll cut them leaves off. And so that-- BB: I know when you were eating the--sucking the sugar out of that cane, you could cut your lips real bad. DB: [Indecipherable.] You sure could! Well, I' ; ll tell you! And if you left a little--a little piece of that outside on there, you know, that' ; d just cut the dickens out of you! It sure would! Yeah. But there' ; s nothing like it. And it was healthy--I mean, the iron is in that stuff, you know, and this--oh, it was really healthy. BB: Well, what' ; s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad' ; s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad--your dad' ; s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He--he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved--I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that' ; s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn' ; t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that--as far as--that' ; s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother' ; s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky. DB: Right. No! She was born in Shamrock! I mean, died in Shamrock. BB: I mean born in Kentucky. DB: Yeah, born, yeah. I was--yeah. BB: Yeah. Do you have any outstanding memory about her? DB: Oh, yeah, she was a great old grandma, I' ; ll tell you. She--she never went to school a whole lot. She had all them boys and then all the mens' ; clothes was that heavy, oh what is it? It wasn' ; t outing (ph), it was twill kind of stuff, you know? BB: Ducking? DB: The mens' ; clothes. Trousers was made out of. And that' ; s what she used to make quilt tops and bottoms for. And put that cotton in there and sometimes she had--then she' ; d put another one of them in between. She' ; d put three of them together, see, and then sew ' ; em together. It' ; d weigh about twelve pounds. And you couldn' ; t hardly turn over under ' ; em. And but anyhow, she always loved to--chewing tobacco. And so grandpa, if he ever knew it, she didn' ; t know it. She kept it in a bucket hanging over her stove, a little bucket up there. And I used to go, she' ; d run out when he wasn' ; t around, well I' ; d run over to the store and get her--her chewing tobacco for her, you know. And I--I just--after I moved, after I moved to Shamrock in 19 and--1915, yeah 1915, yeah. Well, I wasn' ; t around her too much because went to school in the winter and there was farming in here, you know, and--but after I went to work up there at Shamrock, why I was up there in about three mile of ' ; em there, they lived in town then. And so I was down there a lot. And she was just a swell old gal. BB: And your dad, John H. Baker, was one of fourteen children, right? DB: Yeah. And six--six that died that' ; s not on record, got no record for it. BB: Let' ; s see, how many brothers and sisters did you have? DB: I had seven bro--six brothers and two sisters. BB: Okay, and you lost your wife when, Dillard? DB: Twenty-fourth of May 1990. BB: Nineteen-ninety. And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I' ; ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin' ; to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don' ; t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don' ; t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there' ; s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there' ; s somebody out there that I don' ; t know, if I don' ; t know any of ' ; em, I try to make it three times a week and then there' ; s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you' ; ll run into some friend that' ; s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That' ; s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin' ; home, not knowin' ; nothin' ; about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ' ; em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ' ; em on their high shelves, none of ' ; em can reach ' ; em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that' ; s wrong with ' ; em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ' ; em and if they don' ; t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I-- BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: Are any of them older than you? DB: Naw! BB: [laughing] DB: Naw, now they drop down in the eighties from where I' ; m at. BB: [laughing] DB: Oh, Doc Chapman--I mean, not Doc Chapman--Kelly. BB: At the bank? DB: Yeah, he introduces me as ' ; the guy that takes care of the old people.' ; BB: [laughing] DB: But I love it. That' ; s--it' ; s true. The only thing about it--just like one morning here, I got a call at six o' ; clock from west eighth. And I beat it up there. Well, that day I got to the--Bell' ; s (ph) restaurant ten minutes after twelve for breakfast. And I asked ' ; em, I said to her, I said, Can you fix me a breakfast? She said, I sure will. Said, Did you have breakfast? I said, No. So she just fixed me up-- BB: What do you, what is your av--average, what do you usually eat for breakfast, Dillard? DB: Well, my average breakfast [laughing] if you' ; ve got room enough to put it down [laughing]--my average breakfast is two or three slices of toast, or three to four small biscuits. Two eggs, that they' ; re medium. One of the big eggs and two slices of bacon--beef bacon--and a bowl of oats and [indecipherable] and a glass of milk, cup of coffee with raisins in my oats. And that' ; s about what I nibble on for breakfast. BB: [laughing] DB: And I' ; ve been doing that for years, I mean. [Indecipherable] and Dr. Chapmans would say, Stay in there, whatever you' ; re doin' ; , keep doing it. BB: It sure hasn' ; t made you gain any weight. DB: That' ; s--no! No, they tell me about the [indecipherable] effect. I' ; m not worried about no fat. BB: [laughing] Let' ; s see--and your real active in the Christian Advent--Advent Christian Church. DB: Yeah, I' ; m an elder out there, also a lifetime deacon. BB: And you sing in the choir, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I sing solos. BB: Yeah. That' ; s great. And you walk every place you go, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. And anyway within three mile, that is, if I go anywhere within three mile I, I don' ; t take no rides. And when I take my six-mile walks I don' ; t--it' ; s not a six-mile walk if I ride any of it, see. So I don' ; t--the only time I' ; ll ride is maybe if I' ; ve been out workin' ; , comin' ; home, and somebody' ; ll stop, You want a ride? Or I' ; ll go to the grocery store and have maybe a bunch of groceries, carryin' ; ' ; em home. While, they' ; ll stop and I' ; ll ride on occasions like that, but when I' ; m out for a walk, I--I just don' ; t ride, that' ; s all. BB: You' ; ve been traveling quite a bit the last few years, haven' ; t you? DB: Yeah, yeah, I' ; ve took a little ten day trip out to Michigan. And-- BB: Didn' ; t you fly someplace in an airplane out there? DB: That' ; s out there, yeah. And then I went up again this winter when I went out there. There was about a three--three-inch snow one night there in Wiscon--Minnesota, and Betty' ; s husband is in the airplane business and--he' ; s got five of ' ; em. So he--up that morning and he said, Well, Dillard, said, This would be a good day for us to go out and go up and see what we can see. We went over there and he pulled out one of them danged little old airplanes, one-engine. So we got in there and he stepped on--turned the key on to start it and the back was just dead as the dickens. Well, I thought they' ; d run off for breakfast, see, and he called up there and they come down and filled him up with gas, charged that back end, and we took off. I--he was--us--I' ; d got out and he did too, of course, and he said, Well, let' ; s go, and I thought, I don' ; t get in that thing, I want to get in that thing or not and go up with a dead battery, and he went [indecipherable] and he said, Battery don' ; t have nothing to do with this thing runnin' ; , said, All that does is start it! BB: [laughing] DB: So, we was up about three hours and it' ; d snowed, saw snow. And, so we' ; re coming--it' ; s up there, he said you could see three snows--three states from 3,500 feet where we were at. And got down and he said, Well you can tell ' ; em that you saw eleven thousand square miles of snow today. And I--that' ; s all we saw was snow. We didn' ; t see a bare foot of ground nowhere. And then one day we got in that thing and went 170 miles for dinner! That--we was all [indecipherable] way out there on the prairie and all it was out there was just a big old restaurant. And of course there was an airfield oh, half a quarter or something up back of there. Just that restaurant sittin' ; out there by itself. They had parking places like you mark ' ; em off for cars, you know, and I mean they pulled in there and parked in there. We got ready to go back, you have to--need a kicker to kick him off it would take off. [laughing] BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn' ; t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ' ; til--well I quit playing when, when--oh, I played up ' ; til forty-something, I don' ; t know, in the forties. BB: What would--you had--there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children-- DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard-- BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie--Bessie-- BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don' ; t remember what Marie' ; s--if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. DB: Ophelia, right. And then there was Oval (ph). And his name was Oval Lee. I don' ; t--Oval, yeah Lee. He didn' ; t have--there was Wayne come next in. Wayne come next to me, there, you know. I' ; ve left him out, didn' ; t I? BB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: He was, well his other--Wayne L. Wayne L. He didn' ; t have a middle name. And when he went to the service he had to have a middle name. And so he gave them Lee. He forgot about Oval (ph), Oval' ; s name of being Lee, so we had two Lees. Two brothers that' ; s named Lee. And so that--and then there' ; s Clyde. And I don' ; t know his middle name. BB: Alexander. DB: Yeah, Clyde Alexander. I never could remember Alexander. That--don' ; t hear it often enough. BB: Let' ; s see, and you are the first one, two, three-the first five of you were born in Arkansas. DB: Arkansas, yeah. The rest of us in Oklahoma, Creek County. BB: Then there was Virgil, Argil, and Basil. DB: Yeah. BB: All born in Bristow. DB: Mmm-hmm. BB: Okay. Okay is there anything else that you' ; d like to--a story or anything that you' ; d like to add to give people a picture of the early days of Oklahoma, or your early childhood? DB: Well, about the only thing I know is first, about the state, they was--this part of the country was all prairie. There was the biggest old trees, you see, around the creeks and stuff was all trees. And well, Bristow, they had a few just a tree there, and you know, Oh this tree has been set out in there. And all this scrub oak there that you see between here and Shamrock, I remember, that was solid prairie when we come out here. It' ; s just scrub oak, you know, ever since then. And, well we had an old bridge out south of town and we had a big Indian camp just a mile south of town out there, just back on the other side of Deep Fork? There was teepees all over that place out there. And-- BB: Were ya' ; ll afraid of the Indians? DB: Nah. We was raised with ' ; em, see. And there was [indecipherable], I was raised with ' ; em. And, well, Dad and I was comin' ; to town one day and we crossed the creek down below where the bridge is now, forded it, and they' ; d had a big to-do up there the night--well, it was the end of a big stomp dance deal. And there was an Indian layin' ; there and a hog eatin' ; on his face. BB: Oh, gosh. DB: And Dad went up there and told ' ; em about it. ' ; Course they didn' ; t know about it. And he went up there and told ' ; em about it, and told ' ; em, said, he was going in, if they didn' ; t agree to do something, you know, go down and get him, he was going to send the law out there. And they said they' ; d sure get him. Well, when we come back by there, he was gone. [end of recording] audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
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Dillard Baker
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In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow
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OHP-0017-01
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1993-04-13
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audio