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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Wanda Newton
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Etta Feild Caves
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0039A_Etta_Feild_Caves.xml
OHMS Object Text
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5.4 December 4, 1990 OHP-0039A Etta Feild Caves OHP-0039A 0:00-27:11 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Etta Feild Caves Wanda Newton 1:|24(5)|47(3)|64(5)|88(6)|93(7)|100(5)|123(2)|140(1)|157(7)|175(2)|194(2)|202(11)|214(10)|230(14)|242(1)|262(2)|273(5)|294(5)|309(8)|325(7)|338(3)|351(4)|360(3)|383(3)|400(4)|411(3)|423(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0039A Caves, Etta Feild.mp3 Other audio 0 Early Life & ; Coming to Bristow WN: …Tuesday, December 4, I’m Wanda Newton and I’m at the Rainbow Nursing Home and we’re going to have a little conversation with Etta Feild Caves. Etta Feild how long have you been in the nursing home now, do you remember? (pause) I don’t know, do you? EFC: No. WN: Okay, about a year, would you say? EFC: Oh, yeah. About a year. WN: Okay, Etta Feild, can you tell us when you were born? EFC: Yes, I was born January 12, 1904. WN: And were you born in Bristow? EFC: No, I was born in Mississippi, and I-- WN: When did you leave Mississippi? EFC: I left Mississippi when I was ten years old. WN: Did you come directly to Bristow? EFC: And came directly to Oklahoma. I had visited out here before but that was the first time. WN: Who did you visit when you came out here? EFC: I visited the R.L. Joneses. Etta Feild was born in Mississippi and moved to Bristow at the age of 10. Drumright ; Mississippi ; RL Jones early life ; moving to Bristow 218 Family WN: How many brothers and sisters did you have, Etta Feild? EFC: I was the oldest, and then Mary Helen, my sister, is twelve years younger than me. And the third boy, the oldest one, was Robert Lee. And he was always called ‘Brother.’ And Brother (pause) Well, let’s see, he was almost two years younger than me, his birthday was in October. Then along about I’m thinking six years younger than me were the twins, and they were Vernon and Edward. Etta Feild recalls each of her brothers and sisters and also being at the house of her aunt, Allie Montfort Jones. Allie B. Jones ; family ; twins family 393 School Can you tell us anything about your early school? Where did you go to school, Etta Feild? Do you remember where the school was? EFC: Well, the first year when I was in school the building stood there where Edison is. And I was just there but one year and anything. And there was six grades. WN: Do you remember any of your early schoolteachers, Etta Feild? The names of any of them? (pause) I can’t remember any of mine, I thought you might’ve had a special—you never did get a spanking in school, did you? EFC: No. Now we had a man teacher that—to start out with, which was a different—you know, from Mississippi. Etta Feild remembers attending a school where the Edison Elementary stands currently. She also recalls having a male teacher, which at the time, she wasn't used to. school school 510 Entertainment & ; Chores WN: What did you do for entertainment? EFC: Well, we read books ourselves and certain ones were read aloud, you see, to a group of children, maybe. WN: How about your lessons at home? Did you parents make you study your lessons at home? EFC: Oh, yes, we studied our lessons at home at night. WN: And your parents listened to you read and everything? You didn’t have any radios or anything like that so you spent your time—did you have to sew? Learn to sew? What did you have to learn to do as a child? You didn’t have any chores that you had to do, did you Etta Feild? EFC: I don’t think so, except to look after the younger ones. (laughs) Etta Feild remembers reading books for entertainment and not having many chores other than looking after her siblings. babysitting ; books ; entertainment ; sewing chores ; entertainment 630 Church WN: Okay, can you think of anything special that you remember about your early church, Etta Feild? EFC: Well, I know that it was a wooden one, and it sits right there where the Methodist Church is now. WN: And you’ve always been a Methodist? Were you Methodist in Mississippi, too? EFC: I was Presbyterian and then a Methodist in Mississippi, and out here, why, I was a Methodist and then a Presbyterian when—in some later years. Etta Feild recalls following the Presbyterian and Methodist faith both in Mississippi and once she moved back to Bristow. church ; Methodist ; Mississippi ; Presbyterian 773 Staying with Family & ; Oil Days EFC: I remember using horses when I came in from Drumright when I was eight years old, you know, [indecipherable]. WN: And you stayed with Mr. Jones and Mrs. Jones then, over in Drumright? EFC: Yes. WN: So— EFC: And then I stayed with them, some of those years and I went to school in Bristow when my family were out in the oilfields. WN: Do you remember anything unusual that happened during the early oil days? Did they have difficulties then like they have now? You know, with workers or financing or can you remember any of them talking about anything like that? EFC: Well of course you’d hear the bit about financing, you know, and at noontime the men would generally walk home from down at the American National Bank— Etta Feild remembers staying with her aunt, Allie B. Jones, when her family worked in the oil field and attending school in Bristow. Allie B. Jones ; American National Bank ; Drumright ; oil fields family ; oil days 860 Transportation to School WN: What’s the farthest you ever had to walk for school or anything? (pause) You never had to walk a long way, did you, or did they take you to school? EFC: The third and fourth year in the seventh—eighth grade I had learned to ride a bicycle and that’s the way that I went from up on 11th street—let’s see, 10th street— WN: And went to school on your bicycle. Do you remember any early Christmas celebrations you had? Anything special you ever got? A doll, or anything that was really wonderful to you? EFC: Well, I wasn’t so very fond of dolls and so I never did—(laughs)—have any of those, and— Etta Feild recalls learning to ride a bike and using that as transportation to school in eighth grade. bicycle ; school ; transportation transportation to school 997 Attending College & ; Travel WN: And then you went from there to what school? Did you go to Ward-Belmont or where did you go? EFC: I went to Washington, D.C. because I had an uncle and aunt who had moved to Washington, and it was called National Park Seminary. WN: All girls? EFC: Yes. All girls. WN: And then you came back to Bristow? What did you do after you finished school? EFC: Well, I get mixed up on the— WN: Is that when you took a trip to Europe, or were you in school when you took your trip to Europe? Your first trip? (pause) Or had you finished school? Do you remember? EFC: Well, I took two trips to Europe and I think they were ten years apart, something like that. Etta Feild remembers attending college in Washington DC at National Park Seminary and taking the train for the commute back and forth. She also recalls two trips to Europe. Europe ; National Park Seminary ; trains ; Washington DC college ; travel 1102 Trains WN: Can you tell us anything about the early days of catching the train in Bristow and about—now, I know that the depot was segregated, can you tell me anything about the white and the black, you know—when you traveled, you remember anything about the distinction they made between the white people and the black people when they traveled? Or at the depot or anything? EFC: I—I can just recall it was mostly white people that rode on trains. WN: Do you remember anything— EFC: --and the trains left out of here, oh, five or six in the evening, you know, some of them would come down to the station and see us off— Etta Feild remembers the trains leaving in the evening time and friends and family would come see them off at the depot. trains trains 1177 Marriage When did you get married, Etta Feild, do you remember what year you were married? EFC: Isn’t that terrible, not be able to recall just exactly what year— WN: I don’t know what year I was married. I never can remember whether I got married in 1941 or ’42, so no, it’s not terrible. At least I’m going to say it’s not terrible because I can’t ever remember, either. So I don’t know. And can you tell us who you married, Etta Feild? EFC: Yes, I married (husband, Boyd Forbes Caves) WN: You’ll think of it. Handsome young man. EFC: Yes, of course he was a handsome young man! He was a little older than me and— Etta Feild married Boyd Forbes Caves. Boyd Forbes Caves ; marriage ; Tchula (Miss.) marriage 1409 Children WN: Was Elaine born in that house that you built on sixth street? EFC: No, she wasn’t. We lived in one house—we lived in two houses— WN: Oh, you did? You lived in that house where Norma Smallwood lived at one time? Where Margie Neal lives now? EFC: Yes, we lived there the second. The first one went up—we lived (pause) almost across the street on seventh street. WN: On seventh street. And then you built your house after Elaine (Caves Nolan) was what, about two or three years old? Or how old was Elaine when you started building your house, do you remember? EFC: She could walk because I have on a— WN: On a movie? Etta Feild remembers her daughters Elaine Caves Nolan and Denise Caves. Denise Caves ; Elaine Caves Nolan Children 1500 Gardening WN: Okay. So, anyway, now, so we’ve got you here on sixth street and you’ve had a wonderful, wonderful life and have certainly been an asset to our community. And I see where the park entryway has your name on it, and I think that’s a nice thing for our community, also, honoring Etta Feild Caves who certainly was one of the pioneer garden people in Bristow. Can you tell me anything about some of the early people that you worked with? I know Mrs. (JV “Beula”) Dorman was— EFC: Yes, Mrs. Dorman was a real hard worker and gardened— Etta Feild remembers JV " ; Beula" ; Dorman working hard and helping her with gardening projects around Bristow. garden club ; gardening ; JV " ; Beula" ; Dorman gardening MP3 Etta Feild Caves discusses her move to Oklahoma from Mississippi at age 10, early Bristow days, her family, school, church, early transportation and her community involvement. WN: --Tuesday, December 4, I' ; m Wanda Newton and I' ; m at the Rainbow Nursing Home and we' ; re going to have a little conversation with Etta Feild Caves. Etta Feild how long have you been in the nursing home now, do you remember? (pause) I don' ; t know, do you? EFC: No. WN: Okay, about a year, would you say? EFC: Oh, yeah. About a year. WN: Okay, Etta Feild, can you tell us when you were born? EFC: Yes, I was born January 12, 1904. WN: And were you born in Bristow? EFC: No, I was born in Mississippi, and I-- WN: When did you leave Mississippi? EFC: I left Mississippi when I was ten years old. WN: Did you come directly to Bristow? EFC: And came directly to Oklahoma. I had visited out here before but that was the first time. WN: Who did you visit when you came out here? EFC: I visited the R.L. Joneses. WN: They were already here? EFC: Yeah. Well, that wasn' ; t here, that was in Drumright Field. WN: Oh, in Drumright. And when did you move to Bristow, do you remember that? About when? EFC: In--I had moved to Bristow when I was ten years old and so that was nineteen hundred and-- WN: Let' ; s see you were born in-- EFC: In nineteen hundred and fourteen. WN: 1914. Where did you live when you first came to Bristow? Do you remember which house you lived in? EFC: The house I lived in isn' ; t standing today. It was across there from the (pause) WN: That' ; s alright. EFC: (pause) --from the-- (sighs) WN: Now don' ; t worry about it. EFC: --the--(pause) WN: Or maybe you' ; ll think of it pretty soon. EFC: Wait just a minute. Anyway it' ; s almost on the side of the Legion. WN: Oh, the Legion Hut? EFC: Yes! WN: Oh! And then when did you move in the house on east 11th. Didn' ; t you live on east 11th? EFC: East 11th. WN: Did you live--didn' ; t you live in a two-story house there? EFC: Yes-- WN: Isn' ; t that where my brother lives now, did you not live there? EFC: Yes, I lived there longer than any place but oh, so many houses in between. WN: Oh, so many in between. Did you-- pause in recording WN: How many brothers and sisters did you have, Etta Feild? EFC: I was the oldest, and then Mary Helen, my sister, is twelve years younger than me. And the third boy, the oldest one, was Robert Lee. And he was always called ' ; Brother.' ; And Brother (pause) Well, let' ; s see, he was almost two years younger than me, his birthday was in October. Then along about I' ; m thinking six years younger than me were the twins, and they were Vernon and Edward. WN: I didn' ; t know they were twins! I never did know that. Can you think of anything that was outstanding in your childhood that you remember real well about anything that you did when you were little, Etta Feild? EFC: Yes, I can recall Aunt Allie--Mrs. Monfort Jones--having us in when she was entertaining one of the womens' ; clubs. I don' ; t know what that could have been. And it was to hear a lady who was the instructor down at Chickasaw, and the principal thing that she gave was Enith (ph) Ardon (ph). WN: You mean she gave the reading? EFC: Yeah. WN: My word! EFC: We sat on the staircases and-- WN: And listened? EFC: Well, we children did. WN: So now, you always had Negro help didn' ; t you, Etta Feild? When you were a child? EFC: Yes, I think we always did. WN: I remember Mrs. Jones always had help. We don' ; t have it like that, now. Can you tell us anything about your early school? Where did you go to school, Etta Feild? Do you remember where the school was? EFC: Well, the first year when I was in school the building stood there where Edison is. And I was just there but one year and anything. And there was six grades. WN: Do you remember any of your early schoolteachers, Etta Feild? The names of any of them? (pause) I can' ; t remember any of mine, I thought you might' ; ve had a special--you never did get a spanking in school, did you? EFC: No. Now we had a man teacher that--to start out with, which was a different--you know, from Mississippi. WN: (laughs) EFC: And that man was--well, maybe I' ; ll recall it later on. WN: Well, that' ; s alright. Mother had a man by the name of Mr. (John F.) Sharp, but that wouldn' ; t have been him, would it? EFC: No, Mr. Sharp was still connected with the school but he wasn' ; t--may have been still head of the WN: Of the schools at that time? Do you remember any of your schoolbooks? I remember looking in the old library, you know, list of the newspapers and I saw that the Joneses and some of the people were sort of responsible about getting a library at that time. We didn' ; t even have a library. EFC: No, we didn' ; t have a library. WN: What did you do for entertainment? EFC: Well, we read books ourselves and certain ones were read aloud, you see, to a group of children, maybe. WN: How about your lessons at home? Did you parents make you study your lessons at home? EFC: Oh, yes, we studied our lessons at home at night. WN: And your parents listened to you read and everything? You didn' ; t have any radios or anything like that so you spent your time--did you have to sew? Learn to sew? What did you have to learn to do as a child? You didn' ; t have any chores that you had to do, did you Etta Feild? EFC: I don' ; t think so, except to look after the younger ones. (laughs) WN: With brothers that can be a chore sometimes, too. And how about your clothing? Did your mother make your clothing? EFC: Yes. Mother made some of it but generally it was somebody who was real good about making clothes. WN: Like a seamstress. EFC: They were kind of, a little fancy, like these pants that we wore, why, they had tucks in them and-- WN: Lots of lace, didn' ; t they? Did you have a lot of lace? EFC: They might' ; ve had lace on the bottoms. [Indecipherable] lace. WN: Did you ever have to iron any of them? Did you have to learn to iron or do anything like that? EFC: I don' ; t think so. I don' ; t believe I learned to iron at that time. WN: Okay, can you think of anything special that you remember about your early church, Etta Feild? EFC: Well, I know that it was a wooden one, and it sits right there where the Methodist Church is now. WN: And you' ; ve always been a Methodist? Were you Methodist in Mississippi, too? EFC: I was Presbyterian and then a Methodist in Mississippi, and out here, why, I was a Methodist and then a Presbyterian when--in some later years. WN: I know, Etta Feild, in my contact with you, you' ; ve always been so special to so many different people because you always did so much for everybody and you--and in your club work you were always so special. Can you tell me anything about the early clubs that you belonged to? I know I read in the paper, I think, did you belong to Embroidery Club and Culture Club and--do you remember--I know you' ; ve always done so many things and you' ; ve been so active in your church, I know that. But can you remember anything special that happened in any of the early events? (pause) I know the Culture Club and some of them helped start the libraries, I read in the paper where it had a library in a schoolroom once, but I didn' ; t get to read the rest of the article, I thought maybe you might remember some of that. (pause) Did you all have a car? EFC: Oh, yes. We had one car for all of us. WN: But you--you don' ; t remember using horses or carriages here in Bristow at all, do you? Or did you? Do you remember any of that? EFC: I remember using horses when I came in from Drumright when I was eight years old, you know, [indecipherable]. WN: And you stayed with Mr. Jones and Mrs. Jones then, over in Drumright? EFC: Yes. WN: So-- EFC: And then I stayed with them, some of those years and I went to school in Bristow when my family were out in the oilfields. WN: Do you remember anything unusual that happened during the early oil days? Did they have difficulties then like they have now? You know, with workers or financing or can you remember any of them talking about anything like that? EFC: Well of course you' ; d hear the bit about financing, you know, and at noontime the men would generally walk home from down at the American National Bank-- WN: Everybody came home for lunch, didn' ; t they? EFC: Yeah, for lunch. And then walked back. WN: What' ; s the farthest you ever had to walk for school or anything? (pause) You never had to walk a long way, did you, or did they take you to school? EFC: The third and fourth year in the seventh--eighth grade I had learned to ride a bicycle and that' ; s the way that I went from up on 11th street--let' ; s see, 10th street-- WN: And went to school on your bicycle. Do you remember any early Christmas celebrations you had? Anything special you ever got? A doll, or anything that was really wonderful to you? EFC: Well, I wasn' ; t so very fond of dolls and so I never did--(laughs)--have any of those, and-- WN: But did you like books and games better or what, Etta Feild? EFC: Yes, I think so. WN: And birds, I know you' ; ve always liked birds, haven' ; t you? EFC: Yes, but I don' ; t know that we had any books on birds in those days. WN: I thought maybe you might' ; ve had a canary or something for a pet. Did you ever have a dog for a pet? EFC: No, I never did. We had a dog when we were over where--the Fords, you know. WN: And then, Etta Feild, after you finished high school, you finished high school here in Bristow? Did you finish high school in Bristow? Or did you go to a private school? Do you remember if you finished high school in Bristow? EFC: Oh, I finished high school in Bristow, yes. WN: And then you went from there to what school? Did you go to Ward-Belmont or where did you go? EFC: I went to Washington, D.C. because I had an uncle and aunt who had moved to Washington, and it was called National Park Seminary. WN: All girls? EFC: Yes. All girls. WN: And then you came back to Bristow? What did you do after you finished school? EFC: Well, I get mixed up on the-- WN: Is that when you took a trip to Europe, or were you in school when you took your trip to Europe? Your first trip? (pause) Or had you finished school? Do you remember? EFC: Well, I took two trips to Europe and I think they were ten years apart, something like that. WN: Oh, look at your little sparrow! They' ; re so cute, aren' ; t they? EFC: (laughs) WN: Etta Feild, tell me--when you went back and forth to school, how you got there. Did you, somebody drive you back to Washington or did you all go on the train? EFC: Went on the train, yes. WN: And you caught the train from Bristow? EFC: Yes. WN: Can you tell us anything about the early days of catching the train in Bristow and about--now, I know that the depot was segregated, can you tell me anything about the white and the black, you know--when you traveled, you remember anything about the distinction they made between the white people and the black people when they traveled? Or at the depot or anything? EFC: I--I can just recall it was mostly white people that rode on trains. WN: Do you remember anything-- EFC: --and the trains left out of here, oh, five or six in the evening, you know, some of them would come down to the station and see us off-- WN: --meet the trains. Oh, that was always exciting, wasn' ; t it? They used to love to watch the trains come in. Like Dickie Walker (ph), he used to go down and meet them with the girls. (laughs) When did you get married, Etta Feild, do you remember what year you were married? EFC: Isn' ; t that terrible, not be able to recall just exactly what year-- WN: I don' ; t know what year I was married. I never can remember whether I got married in 1941 or ' ; 42, so no, it' ; s not terrible. At least I' ; m going to say it' ; s not terrible because I can' ; t ever remember, either. So I don' ; t know. And can you tell us who you married, Etta Feild? EFC: Yes, I married (husband, Boyd Forbes Caves) WN: You' ; ll think of it. Handsome young man. EFC: Yes, of course he was a handsome young man! He was a little older than me and-- WN: Did your parents object? Did they think he was too old for you? EFC: No, they didn' ; t have anything to say about it. It was after we left Mississippi that I married him and he came down to Tchula, Mississippi and down there and we had a wedding party and my cousins were the bridesmaids, you know. WN: Oh, well how exciting, I didn' ; t know that! And then you all came back to Bristow, and-- EFC: Yes, and he was a good friend of the Wolfs--a Steve Wolf, and Mrs. Wolf, and so he was in that house and I came right out there and would look after the house in a way, they had a cooking, and stay live in year after year. WN: Was he a boarder at their house or was he related to them? EFC: No, he wasn' ; t related, he was just--I don' ; t know, sort of like an adopted son. WN: Oh, how wonderful. And then when did you all build your house on sixth street? You lived other places before you built your house on sixth street? EFC: Well, let' ; s see. We lived first in the Wolf house because they were not there. And so then we had tried to select our lot to live on and we wanted to live on the one down on the corner, but Mrs.-- (pause) WN: Well, don' ; t worry about it. She didn' ; t want to sell her lot, or share it? EFC: No, she didn' ; t want to sell a lot. WN: Is that the lot right next door where Marvin Sullivan' ; s house was built? Is that the lot? EFC: Right next door? WN: Uh-huh. Or where Aileen Wagoner has her house? And the Sullivan house was built? EFC: Yeah. WN: So then you went across the street and got that lot, is that what you did? And when did you build that house, do you remember what-- pause in recording WN: Was Elaine born in that house that you built on sixth street? EFC: No, she wasn' ; t. We lived in one house--we lived in two houses-- WN: Oh, you did? You lived in that house where Norma Smallwood lived at one time? Where Margie Neal lives now? EFC: Yes, we lived there the second. The first one went up--we lived (pause) almost across the street on seventh street. WN: On seventh street. And then you built your house after Elaine (Caves Nolan) was what, about two or three years old? Or how old was Elaine when you started building your house, do you remember? EFC: She could walk because I have on a-- WN: On a movie? EFC: [Indecipherable.] WN: But now Denise (Caves) now was born in that house. EFC: Yes. WN: Okay. So, anyway, now, so we' ; ve got you here on sixth street and you' ; ve had a wonderful, wonderful life and have certainly been an asset to our community. And I see where the park entryway has your name on it, and I think that' ; s a nice thing for our community, also, honoring Etta Feild Caves who certainly was one of the pioneer garden people in Bristow. Can you tell me anything about some of the early people that you worked with? I know Mrs. (JV " ; Beula" ; ) Dorman was-- EFC: Yes, Mrs. Dorman was a real hard worker and gardened-- WN: She was one of the first people to get the flowers started at the entryway and then what was the lady who lived south of town out on the oil camp that helped so much with the garden club? Do you remember her name? Then she moved to Texas? When her husband died? And she had a daughter? But Mrs. Dorman and you all worked so hard with those children out at the park, I can see you yet--you all out there getting the little Junior Garden Club people to try to be interested in helping their community. Was Mrs. Kelly in Garden Club, too? EFC: Yes. WN: Because I remember she tried to get projects down there by the Hamburger King, you know, beautification? You all were always doing something that was to help. I can remember you, too, helping so many children who needed clothing and how many times you came by my house with garments for children to be fixed and what a wonderful thing you did, Etta Feild. See, you' ; ve forgotten all those things you did, haven' ; t you? Well, other people haven' ; t forgotten. Okay. end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0039A_Etta_Feild_Caves.xml OHP-0039A_Etta_Feild_Caves.xml
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Etta Feild Caves
Description
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Etta Feild Caves discusses her move to Oklahoma from Mississippi at age 10, early Bristow days, her family, school, church, early transportation and her community involvement.
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OHP-0039A
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1990-12-04
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audio
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Dublin Core
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Family Histories
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
Interviewee
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Floyd Luther Blythe
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml
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5.4 OHP-0010-01 Floyd Luther Blythe OHP-0010-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Cato Cato moving Floyd Luther Blythe Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|19(14)|38(3)|64(12) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0010-01 Blythe, Floyd.mp3 Other audio 0 Camping on the creek FB: --and of course he helped the baby up and put out the fire, and they said they sold every hog and every [indecipherable] they had and every hog and everything they had. You know, they camped on the creek there for a few days. I don’t know how long, now. But they killed every living thing they had. He kept one horse that he traveled a little on. He took it out to the middle of the cornfield and tied it up. Corn was big and tall, you know, old horse was [inaudible] and they didn’t tie their hogs. Discussion of camping near a creek in Missouri camping ; Cato ; creek ; hogs ; Missouri Camping ; creek 68 Finding a Cemetery BM: Now then, how, how did you find the cemetery? MM: What was you doing— FB: Oh— BM: What was you doing? Memories of finding a cemetery Blythe ; cemetery ; Georgie ; Mary cemetery 150 A Broken Hip BM: This is Floyd telling as much as he can remember on how Aunt Sis or Mary Jane got her hip broke. FB: Well, the Johns (ph) were on their way to the reunion and she somehow or another, Aunt Sis broke her hip. And they brought her back to the house and left her and went on to the reunion. And that’s about all I can say on that. Floyd telling of a broken hip hip ; reunion broken hip In this 1976 interview, Floyd Luther Blythe (1911-1994) briefly discusses some early family history outside Cato, Missouri. FB: --and of course he helped the baby up and put out the fire, and they said they sold every hog and every [indecipherable] they had and every hog and everything they had. You know, they camped on the creek there for a few days. I don' ; t know how long, now. But they killed every living thing they had. He kept one horse that he traveled a little on. He took it out to the middle of the cornfield and tied it up. Corn was big and tall, you know, old horse was [inaudible] and they didn' ; t tie their hogs. MM: About whereabout was that, that happened? Whereabouts did that happen? FB: That happened two miles from here, it' ; s two miles east. BM: Two miles east from here. FB: Uh-huh. MM: Could you hear, were they screaming, everybody-- BM: [inaudible] could you give a pretty good description of where, where it' ; s at-- FB: Well, it' ; s two miles east of Cato (ph), Missouri [indecipherable] MM: Okay, now about this-- BM: Now then, how, how did you find the cemetery? MM: What was you doing-- FB: Oh-- BM: What was you doing? FB: Well, I--I don' ; t know, I was over there one day haying, I think, and this cemetery was growed up in sprouts and bushes pretty thick, all in it, and I got out in there, I don' ; t remember why, but I did. I got out in the brush. I found this marker, this stone that said Blythe on it. And I looked after some questions about it and found out on the [indecipherable] side of the creek there and my grandfather and grandmother. MM: I thought this was back when--I bet Georgie' ; s (ph) buried there, and Mary (ph). FB: Well that, that' ; s dad' ; s brother. MM: Your dad' ; s brother? FB: Uh-huh. MM: There' ; s two Georgie' ; s! (ph) FB: Oh, there is two there. MM: There' ; s two of them. FB: But I don' ; t know that thing was--it may have been Uncle George' ; s [indecipherable]. They had about three, I think, buried there. MM: [Inaudible.] pause in tape BM: This is Floyd telling as much as he can remember on how Aunt Sis or Mary Jane got her hip broke. FB: Well, the Johns (ph) were on their way to the reunion and she somehow or another, Aunt Sis broke her hip. And they brought her back to the house and left her and went on to the reunion. And that' ; s about all I can say on that. BM: Okay, that' ; s--that' ; s good enough. end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml
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Floyd Luther Blythe
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In this 1976 interview, Floyd Luther Blythe (1911-1994) briefly discusses some early family history outside Cato, Missouri.
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OHP-0010-01
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Cato
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1989-09-21
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
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Frank Groom
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Bristow history;family background;childhood memories;school life;air force;trucking career;community involvement;holiday traditions;public service;personal achievements;historical events;community activities;personal wisdom
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5.4 August 6, 2024 OHP-0062 Frank Groom OHP-0062 01:16:44 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Bristow history ; family background ; childhood memories ; school life ; air force ; trucking career ; community involvement ; holiday traditions ; public service ; personal achievements ; historical events ; community activities ; personal wisdom Frank Groom Regan Siler 1.0:|23(3)|53(4)|87(12)|103(7)|122(10)|146(4)|173(11)|194(5)|216(16)|230(5)|251(4)|263(15)|286(6)|308(18)|329(8)|353(4)|380(12)|404(10)|422(4)|430(8)|458(8)|469(5)|482(3)|506(6)|529(5)|554(15)|573(11)|596(5)|611(15)|627(16)|639(12)|657(5)|692(12)|720(5)|742(10)|752(7)|767(10)|785(6)|806(12)|832(8)|855(4)|884(17)|900(15)|928(4)|957(4)|976(7)|998(18)|1017(7)|1037(10)|1061(12)|1082(14)|1107(14)|1123(9)|1150(4)|1172(6)|1190(4)|1220(14)|1243(7)|1261(13)|1279(6)|1297(7)|1316(8)|1336(10)|1355(5)|1368(9)|1391(6)|1418(13)|1433(4)|1456(14)|1487(11)|1506(11)|1527(5)|1541(10)|1563(6)|1575(8)|1605(10)|1626(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0062 Groom, Frank.mp4 Other video 0 Background Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 6, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Frank groom at the Bristow library annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:24
 ; Franklin Ewing Groom.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:27
 ; Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:29
 ; Yes, you do.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:30
 ; Okay. So can you tell me when and where you were born?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:35
 ; I was born August the 14th, 1939 in Chandler, Oklahoma.
 ; Frank Groom was born August 14, 1939. He was born in Chandler, Oklahoma. His full name is Franklin Ewing Groom. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Library Annex ; Franklin Ewing Groom ; Chandler (Okla.) Background 0 41 Parents and Siblings Regan Siler 00:41
 ; And can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's, let's start with your parents. What are your parents? Full names? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 00:48
 ; My dad was Floyd Franklin Groom and my mom was Thelma Carmen Burris.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:55
 ; Okay. Do you happen to know your, I have your your dad's birth date as 12/8/1913. Does that sound right? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:04
 ; And then I have your mother as November 6, 1938 [correction 11/20/1911] 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 01:04
 ; Yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 01:09
 ; That's correct.
 ; Frank's parents were Floyd and Thelma Groom. Frank had five siblings-four brothers and one sister. Two of his siblings have already passed. Parents ; Floyd Franklin Groom ; Thelma Carmen Burris Groom ; Murel Dean Groom Rains ; Siblings ; William Earl Groom ; Gilbert Lee Groom ; Jimmy Don Groom ; Joe Lynn Groom ; Bristow (Okla.) ; South Dakota Parents ; Siblings 0 155 Parents' Occupations Regan Siler 02:35
 ; Okay, okay, um, what type of work, I know we had talked a little bit, but what, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 02:44
 ; My dad was a carpenter contractor, and my mom had the restaurant. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:50
 ; Okay, and you had mentioned that your family had run like restaurants in the Bristow area for around 40 years. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 02:56
 ; Yes.
 ; Frank's father was a carpenter contractor. Frank's mother ran restaurants in Bristow for around 40 years. A couple of the restaurants were the Harvey House Cafe and Mom's Home Cooking. Carpenter Contractor ; Restaurant ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Main Street ; Blue Front ; Kelly Lake Truck Stop ; Harvey House Cafe ; Dollar General Store (Firm) ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; Mom's Home Cooking Occupation 0 258 Carpentry Regan Siler 04:18
 ; It was just part of it. So, now, I know you said, and, which, I'm kind of skipping ahead, but knowing that your dad was a carpenter, is that where you because I know you had the handyman business, which we'll talk about a little later on in the interview. But is that where you learned all your skills? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 04:37
 ; Yes, and working with him and my granddad. My Granddad, Burris was also a carpenter, and was a real good teacher. So I learned a lot from my grandpa.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 04:49
 ; To me, that is some of the most you can't put a price tag on the knowledge that you can gain from like learning a trade like that, like carpentry, which I feel like we're kind of losing in this day and age as far as craftsmanship and quality of work and things like that. So, I guess you did you enjoy it as a young person? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 05:12
 ; Oh yeah, yeah.
 ; Frank learned many carpentry skills from his father and his Grandpa Burris. He learned how to sharpen chisels, tools and saws and many other skills. His father even built and remodeled several houses in Bristow. Carpentry ; Bristow (Okla.) Carpentry 0 355 Bomber Plant Regan Siler 05:55
 ; Whatever needed to be done. So, did you, has your family, when did your has your family always lived in the Bristow area? I know you said you were born in Chandler. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:06
 ; Well, we moved here when I was, like, four years old. So that would have been 1943 we moved to Bristow.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 06:16
 ; And did your grand, did your grandparents live here?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:19
 ; They did after we lived here.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 06:21
 ; Oh, okay, so they moved here. They followed you here. Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 06:25
 ; My dad had a, well, they worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II.
 ; Frank and his family moved to Bristow when Frank was four years old. Before that, Frank's parents worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II. Frank's father built the scaffolding for the airplanes to be worked on. His mother put aluminum panels together for the airplanes. The bomber plant was located where American Airlines now has their repair depot. Bristow (Okla.) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Bomber Plant ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; World War II ; Rosie the Riveter ; Buick automobile ; American Airlines Bomber Plant 0 469 Grandparents and Extended Family Regan Siler 07:49
 ; Wow. Okay, um, so growing up, did you have, obviously, your grandparents were here. Did you have other family that lived nearby you?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:01
 ; No. Our closest relatives were in Guthrie [Oklahoma].
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:05
 ; Really? Okay. So just your grandparents on your dad's side? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:10
 ; No, my mom's side.
 ; Frank's grandparents on his mother's side lived close to him growing up. They were the only family members close. His other extended family members lived in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Grandparents ; Guthrie (Okla.) Grandparents ; Family 0 492 Early Childhood Regan Siler 08:12
 ; Your mom's side were the ones that lived here close to you. Okay, um, so let's talk a little bit about your early childhood. These are just some kind of fun questions to remember. Do you remember having any favorite toys or favorite games that you played as a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:36
 ; Not really. I was an outdoor kid. If the weather was good. I was outside.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 08:41
 ; So what did you do outside? Like, what were the things you did outside?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 08:44
 ; We'd go to Sand Creek and play all up and down the creek and kick cans down the street.
 ; Frank spent much of his time as a child playing outdoors. He would play down by the creek and kick cans down the street. He played with some neighborhood children that were close to his age. Frank was expected to help with the household chores (cleaning his bedroom, doing the dishes and hanging out clothes on the clothesline.) Washington School ; Lincoln School ; Chores Childhood 0 593 Favorite Activities as a Child Regan Siler 09:53
 ; Right. So, you just did what needed to be done. Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 10:05
 ; My favorite thing was probably going down to my granddad's and working in his garden with him. I like to garden. I like to be outdoors. And he always had a garden, and that was a good excuse to go down and work the garden, then I could have supper with him.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:23
 ; Oh, you had a little bit of an ulterior motive there. So what kind of things did he grow?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 10:30
 ; All kinds of vegetables, you know, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, tomatoes, just typical family garden.
 ; Frank loved to be outdoors as a child. One of his favorite things to do was help his granddad in his garden and then stay for supper. He also remembers helping his grandparents can peaches. Garden ; Porter (Okla.) Activities 0 731 School Regan Siler 12:11
 ; Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Did you first attend school at Washington?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 12:19
 ; The first six years. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:20
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 12:22
 ; Of course, that school is gone. Went to junior high school. That building's gone. Graduated 1957.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:32
 ; Now, was it just me or going to, I can remember going to the junior high, boy, there were some hot summers in there trying to was it like that for you guys, too? Where you just you're you're sweating on your papers and trying to learn in the summer. Did you have any influential teachers during that time? Any that particularly stuck out to you, or you feel like maybe mentored you or helped you during that time? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 13:00
 ; Well, Carolyn Foster [12/20/1912-7/10/2019]. 
 ; Frank attended Washington Elementary School in Bristow for the first six years of his schooling. He graduated from high school in 1957. He remembers Carolyn Foster being an influential teacher. Frank walked to school as a child. School ; Washington Elementary School ; Junior High School ; Carolyn Foster ; Neva Gurley ; History ; English ; Loren Roberts ; Alva (Okla.) ; North Central College School 0 858 Clubs and Organizations Regan Siler 14:18
 ; So, you were there the whole time? Okay. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations during your school life, which would probably be more in junior high or high school.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 14:29
 ; I was in the band from the seventh grade on. I was in the Projectionist Club in the high school. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:38
 ; Now, what is the Projectionist Club? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 14:40
 ; Well, of course, they don't have it now, but if the teachers needed to show a film, they had to have somebody that knew how to run the 16 millimeter projector. So we had a small club that we trained individuals to operate that equipment so they could have somebody to operate the equipment.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:03
 ; Well, that's neat. Well, I did a little, I did a little digging on you, and I think you were like, really band was like, really your thing? Wasn't it? Like you were very good at it, and you were, I think, what were you a vice president of the band?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 15:22
 ; No, no, I was a drum major.
 ; Frank was involved in band in school. He was a drum major and went to competitions. Frank also was in the Projectionist Club, which helped run the projector equipment in the school. He was part of a service organization called the Demolays which is like a junior Masonic organization. Frank also was involved with the Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship. High school ; Band (Instrumental group) ; Projectionist Club ; Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship ; Demolays ; Masonic Lodge ; Paula Atwell ; History Clubs ; Organization 0 1037 Air Force & ; College Frank Groom 17:17
 ; Once I got out of high school, and went in the Air Force, I found out how good of schools we actually had here. The way I was raised was a whole lot different than a lot of guys that I saw, like in basic training.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:36
 ; That you experienced that in the Air Force that you 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 17:39
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 17:40
 ; Interesting. So, in what way, and I guess expand on that, how do you how do you? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 17:45
 ; Well, a kid can't even sew a button back on his uniform. He doesn't have a clue on how to do that, or polish shoes. You have to teach them how to do this stuff when they're 18, 19, 20 years old.
 ; Frank attended the Air Force after he finished high school. He was in the Air Force for eight years. Frank received his APA at Grayson County Junior College. Then he finished his bachelor's degree at Texas A& ; M. He studied business administration and took accounting. Basic training (Military education) ; Air Force ; Grayson County Junior College ; Perrin Air Force Base ; Sherman (Tex.) ; Dennis (Tex.) ; Texas A& ; M ; Commerce (Tex.) ; Japan ; Business administration Air Force ; College 0 1249 Career Regan Siler 20:49
 ; So I know whenever we had talked before, you said one of your main jobs throughout your career was in management and long-haul trucking. Can you tell me anything about that? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 21:05
 ; Well, I had a when I worked for Pillsbury for several years, and I was when I left them, I was [indecipherable] manager. So, I had some trucking experience, and I, at that point, I had my own business. I had a high pressure cleaning business in Dallas area, and one of my customers, I told him I was thinking about getting out of it, because the EPA was starting to get real strict about soap going down this cleaning stuff going into drains and all that, so I was thinking about getting out of it. And he told me he had a friend that owned a trucking company, and he would check with him and see if he needed any employees. So, this fellow named Jay Trammel (ph) called me and invited me to come out and talk to him, which I did, and he hired me. And I went to work in their operating department as customer service and dispatching, and from there, it just that became my world. I really enjoyed it.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 22:24
 ; So who were some of the companies that you worked for throughout your life?
 ; Frank mainly worked in long-haul trucking and management during his career. He worked for Pillsbury for several years. He also had a high-pressure cleaning business in Dallas. Frank traveled all over while trucking. He lived in several different states during his career-Arkansas, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania and Louisiana. After leaving his company in Louisiana, Frank moved back to Bristow and finished his career at John Christner Trucking and was there for 8 years. Career ; Pillsbury Company ; Dallas (Tex.) ; Jay Trammel ; J Travel Company ; JMI Transport ; Batesville (Ark.) ; Salt Lake City (Utah) ; Pacific States Transport ; Goodway Transport ; Pennsylvania ; Louisiana ; Bristow (Okla.) ; John Christner Trucking ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Career 0 1438 Childhood Home Regan Siler 23:58
 ; Okay, all right. Um, okay. Well, we got a little bit sidetracked, because I wanted to talk to you about your your truck, your trucking career. Let's back up a little bit. And can you tell me about the the house you grew up in? I know you said it was on East Seventh. Um, did you have your own room? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 24:25
 ; Oh, no. We had a three-bedroom house. My folks had what their bedroom. My sister got one by herself. Five boys were in the other bedroom. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:39
 ; Oh!
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 24:40
 ; Two double beds and one twin bed. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:43
 ; Oh, my goodness!
 ; Frank grew up in a three-bedroom house on East Seventh in Bristow. Frank shared a bedroom with all of his brothers. Frank spent a lot of his time outside. He had a big elm tree in his backyard that he would climb into and read his books. Seventh Street ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Junior High School Home 0 1561 Mealtimes 26:01
 ; Then everything changed. Okay, so tell me what meal times were like in your family. Did you eat together every night?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 26:13
 ; Every night.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 26:14
 ; I'm guessing mom cooked cooked meals, and everybody sat down.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 26:20
 ; Yep, that's the way we did it.
 ; Frank and his family ate dinner together every night. The children took turns with the cleanup. Frank's favorite meal was brown beans, cornbread and fried potatoes. His mother was well known for her pineapple upside down cakes. Mealtime ; army Mealtimes 0 1681 Community Activities Regan Siler 28:01
 ; Well, I imagine she would have to be for running restaurants for 40 years. So, thinking back to your life growing up around Bristow, did you have any like, favorite community activities? And by that I mean like you know you think about like Western Heritage Days, parades, county fair, what do you have any memory, specific memories of times like that, or things, I don't know, day camp and stuff like that that, that you did?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 28:32
 ; Didn't have day camp then. I had never heard of that until I moved back to Bristow. But [undecipherable] we had the swimming pool at that time. I would rather go to Falls Creek, I mean, Little Falls or down to Salt Creek somewhere. Swimming pool was, it didn't smell good.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:56
 ; You wanted to be in nature.
 ; Frank said he wasn't involved with many community activities besides playing with the band in parades. He would much rather swim in Salt Creek or Little Falls than the city pool. He would rather be in nature. Restaurant ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Western Heritage Days ; Salt Creek Community Activities 0 1756 Businesses Around Bristow Regan Siler 29:16
 ; Okay, alright, um, do you remember some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 29:28
 ; Think back, I can probably think of most of them, but the ones I miss are, like, JC Penney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store, Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. I could go and stand and look and watch, help, fix watches and stuff for hours.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 29:55
 ; Well, I think it's neat because I came to Bristow in the, probably, early 80s, and it seems like there was a time before then, it seems like I kind of came at a time when Bristow was maybe kind of on a decline. And, so, to hear how Bristow was before that is has been really interesting to me, because it was a pretty it was a pretty happening town back in the day.
 ; Frank still remembers some of the businesses that were in Bristow when he was young. He remembers JCPenney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store and Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. Frank says you couldn't find a parking space on Main Street on Fridays and Saturdays because it was so busy. Bristow (Okla.) ; JCPenney ; Clark's Fine Clothes ; Mr. Silver's Jewelry Store ; Mr. Harvat's Jewelry Store ; Main Street ; Wal-Mart (Firm) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Lot-a-Burger Businesses 0 1940 Teenage Life Regan Siler 32:20
 ; Oh, my goodness! Well, that's cool. Um, did you have a favorite place to hang out as a teenager?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 32:29
 ; Skating rink, probably, and Anchor Drive-In. That was after you get your car. You'd go to the Anchor.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 32:38
 ; So, was cruising Main a thing back then? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 32:41
 ; Oh, yeah.
 ; Frank says the skating rink was the place to on Friday and Saturday nights when he was a teenager. He also spent a lot of time at Anchor Drive-In. Dragging Main was also a popular activity among the teens. Skating rinks ; Anchor Drive-In ; Main Street ; High school ; Virginia Schrader Teenage Life 0 2028 Television Frank Groom 33:48
 ; Yep, we didn't have the TV like we have now. I can remember when we got our first TV. We were the first people in that whole section of town to get a TV set. So, Harold [Harold White] that had the TV shop, come out, put it in, put the antenna up, and all that. You couldn't stir the people in the living room. All the neighbors were there to watch TV, and it was green.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 34:18
 ; It was green?! 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 34:19
 ; Yeah, it had a greenish tent. It wasn't nice, sharp, black and white, you know, it was kind of the greenish color.
 ; Frank remembers when his family got their first TV. He says it wasn't a sharp black and white but had a greenish color. Frank didn't watch much television and still doesn't except for the news and NASCAR races. Television ; Harold White ; NASCAR (Association) ; Wal-Mart (Firm) Television 0 2264 Music Regan Siler 37:44
 ; Did you enjoy listening to music growing up? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 37:47
 ; Yes, but I've got away from that, because I'm so hard of hearing that I've got a six year old pickup that's got a brand new radio that's never been turned on.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:00
 ; Are you serious?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 38:02
 ; Too distracting.
 ; Frank remembers listening to Eddy Arnold on the radio growing up. He prefers older music. Because of his hearing, Frank does not listen to music now. He says it is too distracting. Frank has never turned on the radio in his six-year-old pickup. Music ; Radio ; Band (Instrumental group) ; Eddy Arnold Music 0 2338 Medical Care Regan Siler 38:58
 ; Well, I can't completely disagree with you on that. So, what was medical care like for you and your family growing up? Did you have a family doctor? Did you take care of things at home?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:12
 ; Well, some of both. Our family doctor was Dr. Harz who was a chiropractor, and he was on the third floor over the OG& ; E building.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:26
 ; Really? I've not heard of him. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:30
 ; I don't believe that. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:30
 ; I don't think I have. I hear a lot about like, Dr King and but you say Harrs like H A R R S?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 39:39
 ; H A R Z. He was German.
 ; Frank and his family used Dr. Harz as their family doctor. Frank went to him until he joined the Air Force. Frank never went to the dentist until he was in the Air Force. He remembers having the chicken pox as a young child. He was at his grandparents' house in Chandler and his grandmother isolated Frank in an upstairs bedroom for three days Medical care ; Doctor ; Dr. Harz ; Chiropractors ; OG& ; E ; Air Force ; Dentist ; Chicken pox ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Mumps ; Measles ; Vaccines Medical care 0 2496 Church Regan Siler 41:36
 ; Okay, um, I was going to ask if you attended church, but I guess you attended the 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 41:42
 ; I started out at the Baptist Church. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 41:44
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 41:46
 ; I wised up and switched to the Methodist Church.
 ; Frank first attended the Baptist Church. Later he said he wised up and switched to the Methodist Church. Frank says the Methodist Church now is a different building but in the same location. Church ; Baptist Church ; Methodist Church Church 0 2524 Holidays Regan Siler 42:04
 ; Same location. Okay, um, so do you remember how your family celebrated holidays? Did they celebrate them in a big way? Like, say, tell me, like, what Christmas was like for you growing up.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 42:05
 ; Usually, we would go to Guthrie [Oklahoma], to my dad's folks, and I had an uncle that also had a restaurant, and that's where the family would meet for Christmas dinner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 42:22
 ; Oh, fun! 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 42:25
 ; At the restaurant. And I remember one of those Christmases, there was an old fella tapped on the door and tried to get in, and Uncle Marvin (ph) had the cafe, he went to the door and told him he's closed. And the old man, apparently, was like homeless, or anyway, invited him in and and they fed him. And then he asked if, if they had the jukebox that he wanted to listen to Rudolph.
 ; Frank and his family would travel to Guthrie, Oklahoma to celebrate Christmas. Frank's uncle had a restaurant, and his family would meet there for Christmas dinner. Frank did not grow up celebrating the Fourth of July. He still does not like the fireworks. Holidays ; Christmas ; Guthrie (Okla.) ; Restaurant ; Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer (Fictitious character) ; Jukebox ; Fourth of July ; Easter ; Halloween Holidays 0 2691 Handyman Business Regan Siler 44:51
 ; Don't even go outside. As a child, do you remember, do you did you have any thoughts of what you wanted to be when you grew up? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 45:02
 ; No.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:03
 ; So, you never, as a little kid, thought I'm going to be
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 45:05
 ; No, I really didn't.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 45:06
 ; You didn't. You were just too busy playing in the creek. So, we talked a little bit about your jobs, and you said that you were primarily throughout your career in trucking management, but then you had also told me around 2006 that you started your handyman business. Can you tell me about that and what inspired that?
 ; Around 2006, Frank started a handyman business. Frank had experience in handyman jobs from working with his dad and grandpa. Also, Frank and his wife flipped houses as they moved with Frank's trucking career. Handyman ; Chip Gaines ; Joanna Gaines ; Pennsylvania ; Louisiana Handyman ; Business 0 2812 Wife, Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom Regan Siler 46:52
 ; And, then, so did your wife just kind of what career was she into?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 46:58
 ; She worked at we lived in Texas for quite a long while, and she worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician. And she worked at Montgomery Ward for a while in there as accounting department. She waited tables when we first got married. When I was in the airforce, she worked at a restaurant.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 47:26
 ; So, since we're talking about your spouse, can you tell us what her name is?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 47:33
 ; Shirley Jean Dowdy [Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom 11/6/1938-1/29/2018]. We got married September 20, 1958.
 ; Frank was married to his wife, Shirley for 60 years. She passed away in 2018. They met while in high school and were married three years later. Shirley waited tables at a restaurant when they were newly married. She worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician when they lived in Texas. Shirley also worked at Montgomery Ward in the accounting department for a while. Wife ; Arlington (Tex.) ; Montgomery Ward ; Accounting ; Airforce ; Restaurant ; Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom ; High school Wife 0 2919 Engagement and Wedding Regan Siler 48:39
 ; 60 years. So, did you have, like, an engagement period? Did you propose and have an engagement period?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 48:47
 ; Well, yeah, kinda.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 48:50
 ; She was living after high school, she went to beauty school, beautician school, and I was working for a supermarket. Of cousre, we were back and forth all the time. I was living in Tulsa, and it just developed.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 48:50
 ; Kinda? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 49:13
 ; And that's that's that, huh? So, where did you guys end up getting married? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 49:20
 ; At the Methodist Church here in Bristow.
 ; After high school, Shirley attended beauty school in Tulsa. Frank was working at a supermarket. Their relationship grew and they became engaged. Frank and Shirley were married at the Methodist Church in Bristow. It was a small wedding with about 10 guests and the preacher. Engagement ; Beauty schools ; Supermarket ; Methodist Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Wedding ; Tulsa (Okla.) Engagement ; Wedding 0 2973 Early Years of Marriage Regan Siler 49:33
 ; Okay, okay. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? Was there, did you have struggles? Was it fun when, I mean,
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 49:44
 ; We always had fun, but gosh, we hadn't been, she had a beauty shop over on Oak Street after she went to school. And we rented an apartment down on Fifth Street, and she had a phone put in with the same number as the beauty shop. The next morning, the phone rang, and I asked, somebody asked for Shirley Groom. I said, who?! It took a while.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 50:23
 ; Oh, that's funny. You had to let that one sink in a little bit. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 50:29
 ; But shortly after that, I took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma.
 ; After marriage, Shirley had a beauty shop on Oak Street. They rented an apartment on Fifth Street. Shortly after marriage though, Frank took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma and they moved. Marriage ; Oak Street ; Fifth Street ; Shattuck (Okla.) ; Woodward (Okla.) ; office manager ; oil field ; Beauty shop Marriage 0 3091 Daughter, Stella Reni Groom Renner Frank Groom 51:31
 ; Have one daughter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:33
 ; And what's her full name?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:34
 ; Stella Reni, and her married name is Renner. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:38
 ; Okay, um, and then did do I understand that she was, she also went into the military?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:48
 ; She she wanted to learn to fly.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 51:52
 ; She wanted to learn what? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 51:53
 ; To fly.
 ; Frank has one daughter, Stella. Stella was interested in learning how to fly when she was a teenager. They could not afford flying lessons, so she chose to join the Air Force. She ended up not being qualified to fly because she struggled with the landing. Stella chose a different path in the military and achieved many promotions. She retired from the military eight years ago and resides in Colorado. Stella Reni Groom Renner ; Military ; High school ; Military Academy ; air force ; Mississippi ; California ; Minuteman (Missile) ; Airman Performance Report ; Randolph Air Force Base (Tex.) ; Lieutenant Colonel ; Washington ; Monument (Colo.) ; Air Force Academy Daughter 0 3406 Grandson, Remington Shane Renner Frank Groom 56:46
 ; I've got one. Remington Shane Renner. He's 21 and he's in the Air Force stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia, and he's a cyber security guy.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:02
 ; Wow, so he's probably busy, right? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:06
 ; Yeah, he is unbelievably sharp on computers. Even in high school, he was named in high school as the outstanding computer science student.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:20
 ; Wow. And everyone in the family stayed in the Air Force, too.
 ; Frank has one grandson, Remington. Remington is in the Air Force and stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia. He works in cyber security. Grandson ; Remington Shane Renner ; air force ; Warner Robins (Ga.) ; High school ; army Grandson 0 3456 Parenting 57:36
 ; It would me! Well, so, do you remember any challenges being like a dad when when she was young, like challenges of being a dad?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:48
 ; Not really. We had a really good kid. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 57:53
 ; Sounds like it.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 57:54
 ; But anything she wanted to do we, we supported her, you know, she wanted to take dancing lessons. We got four years old. Started dancing lesson, and she continued dancing lessons since she graduated high school.
 ; Frank does not recall having challenges parenting his daughter. He says she was a good kid. Stella took dance lessons from four years old until she graduated high school. She was in band and even became the drum major of the band. Stella was very driven as a child and now as an adult. Parenting ; Dance ; High school ; Piano ; Air Force Academy ; Band directors ; Drum majors Parenting 0 3633 Important Invention Regan Siler 1:00:33
 ; So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:00:50
 ; Atomic energy, probably. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:00:52
 ; Wow, that's a that's a big one. And what and why do you why do you think that? 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:00:59
 ; Well, it's the least polluting method of generating power that there is, except for disposing of the spent radioactive material. But it could be a game changer if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Yeah, we lived in Pennsylvania when the Three Mile Island thing, and it was a big to do in the news, but it wasn't a big to do right around where it happened.
 ; Frank believes the most important invention in his lifetime would be atomic energy. Frank says it's the least polluting method of generating power. He says it is the probably the least used invention, but it could be very beneficial if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Invention ; Atomic energy ; Pennsylvania ; Three Mile Island Nuclear Power Plant (Pa.) ; Technology Invention 0 3798 How the World is Different Regan Siler 1:03:18
 ; So, how do you feel the world is different than whenever you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:03:23
 ; Oh, gosh.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:03:26
 ; Like, let you count the ways. Well, just sum it up for me, what, what do you feel is the biggest difference?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:03:37
 ; I think the ability of people to get along. You know, they, I don't, I know people that don't even know the next door neighbors, you know? And if they, if they do, they don't say anything good about them.
 ; Frank feels like the world is so different from when he was a child. The biggest difference he feels is the ability of people to get along. Frank says people don't even know their next-door neighbors. If they do know the neighbors, they don't say anything good about them. World ; Neighbors World 0 3833 Public Service Regan Siler 1:03:53
 ; Right, right. Yeah, well, I feel like, and that's something else I wanted to touch on, I feel like you're somebody that's been very involved with public service and, all the different, I'd like for you to tell us about some of the boards that you have served and continue to serve on and and what drives you to do that.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:04:17
 ; Well, I'm on the city council now, and I previously served eight years. I'm on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services, and have been for since 2017. And I'm on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority, and I've been, I'm just going into my second year with that.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:04:42
 ; And what's your drive for, for being a part of all of those things?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:04:46
 ; Help. Just to be useful. Help people. I got involved with social services. The Foster Family donated the buildings to the social services.
 ; Frank has been involved in many different community activities and boards. He currently serves on the city council. He is on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services and has served since 2017. Frank is also on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority. He also served as president of the industrial authority. His biggest accomplishment with that was selling the old garment factory building. Frank was voted the Citizen of the Year in 2017. public service ; City councils ; Bristow Social Services ; Bristow Housing Authority ; Highway 48 ; George W. Krumme ; Citizen of the Year ; Social service ; Industrial Authority ; Kell Kelly Public service 0 4245 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 1:10:45
 ; Yeah, I do too. Okay, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:10:59
 ; Our biggest problem is Trump and the MAGA, what do they call them M A G A? And that far right-wing attitude. And where we're going to cure it is to get rid of it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:16
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:17
 ; And how do you, how do you, how do you get rid of it?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:20
 ; Well, you gotta vote out the ones that are in now and not vote the ones that are wanting to get in. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:27
 ; Okay, all right. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:29
 ; And I'm not a Democrat, by the way.
 ; Frank believes the nation's biggest problem right now is Donald Trump and the MAGA movement. He does not agree with the far right-wing attitude. Frank says he is not a Democrat. Nation ; Donald Trump ; Democrat Nation 0 4292 Historic Events Regan Siler 1:11:32
 ; Okay, have any historic events affected your life? And if so, how and like, for example, Oklahoma City Bombing, 911, COVID, any natural disasters. Anything affected you?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:11:48
 ; When John Kennedy was assassinated, I was in the Air Force, and I was, and I remember this real vividly. I was in the north hangar at Perrin Air Force Base. And there's probably 10 airplanes in it, and all this ground power equipment, people working, but somebody had a radio and that announcement came on, and just like that, it was dead silence in that hanger. Everything shut down, and we got where we could hear, you know, and listen to that announcement. I guess nothing happened at the hanger for a couple hours. It just, 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:11:54
 ; Oh, I can imagine. 
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:12:33
 ; Everybody couldn't believe it. And I remember that just as vividly as I mean, if I think real hard, I probably can tell you the guys that were standing around at the time.
 ; Frank vividly remembers several historic events that have happened in his lifetime. He was in the Air Force when John Kennedy was assassinated. Frank was on the phone with his Terminal Manager in Oklahoma City when the bombing occurred. He heard it over the phone. He was working at John Christner Trucking when 9/11 occurred. Historic Events ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; John F. Kennedy ; air force ; Perrin Air Force Base ; The Murrah Building ; Pennsylvania ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Feed the Children (Organization) ; John Christner Trucking Historic Events 0 4517 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:15:17
 ; Right. Yeah. Um, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:15:30
 ; I don't know if there's a lot of wisdom there. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:15:32
 ; I know you have to have some wisdom in there you want to share.
 ; 
 ; Frank Groom 1:15:37
 ; Not that I could think of, just, you know, treat people like you want to be treated.
 ; Frank finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says to treat people like you want to be treated. He also says to help people when they need it. Wisdom Wisdom 0 MP4 Franklin Ewing Groom, born August 14, 1939, in Chandler, Oklahoma, discussed his life and family history. His parents, Floyd Franklin Groom and Thelma Carmen Burris, owned restaurants in Bristow for 40 years. Franklin has five siblings, with four still living. He learned carpentry skills from his father and grandfather. Groom served in the Air Force for eight years, attended Grayson County College and Texas A& ; M, and worked in long-haul trucking management. He was involved in community service, including serving on the city council and boards for Bristow Social Services and Housing Authority. Groom emphasized the importance of public service and treating others well. Regan Siler This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 6, 2024 and I'm sitting here with Frank groom at the Bristow library annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? Frank Groom Franklin Ewing Groom. Regan Siler Okay. And do I have permission to do this interview? Frank Groom Yes, you do. Regan Siler Okay. So can you tell me when and where you were born? Frank Groom I was born August the 14th, 1939 in Chandler, Oklahoma. Regan Siler And can you tell us about the people in your family? Let's, let's start with your parents. What are your parents? Full names? Frank Groom My dad was Floyd Franklin Groom and my mom was Thelma Carmen Burris. Regan Siler Okay. Do you happen to know your, I have your your dad's birth date as 12/8/1913. Does that sound right? Regan Siler And then I have your mother as November 6, 1938 [correction 11/20/1911] Frank Groom Yeah. Frank Groom That's correct. Regan Siler Okay, um, do you have any siblings? Frank Groom No, not, not 1938 Regan Siler Not 19? Frank Groom Are you talking about my wife or mom? Regan Siler Oh, I had, I do have that wrong? Um, well, that's what I found online. So it's November 6, but the year is incorrect? Frank Groom My wife's birthday is November 6, 1938. Regan Siler Well, okay, I just have that wrong, then. I apologize. I will, I will get the right date on that. Sorry about that. Okay, so do you have any siblings? Frank Groom I've got five. Regan Siler You have five siblings. Okay, what are their names? Frank Groom Well, the oldest was my sister Murel Dean Groom Rains. Regan Siler And you said Murel? Frank Groom Murel. Regan Siler Okay Frank Groom M u r e l. Murel. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Frank Groom And the next one, just older than me, was William Earl Groom. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom And after me, there's Gilbert Lee Groom, who still lives here in Bristow. And Joe Lynn Groom, who lives in South Dakota, and Jimmy Don Groom. He passed away several years ago. Regan Siler Okay, so you so how many siblings are still living? Frank Groom There's still four, five of us. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom I'm sorry, four, four of us. Two have passed away. My older sister passed away. Regan Siler Okay, okay, um, what type of work, I know we had talked a little bit, but what, what type of work did your parents do? Frank Groom My dad was a carpenter contractor, and my mom had the restaurant. Regan Siler Okay, and you had mentioned that your family had run like restaurants in the Bristow area for around 40 years. Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler And which restaurants were those? Frank Groom Well, they had one on Main Street. I think, if this real little, I think it's called the Blue Front, which is down between Fifth and Sixth Street on the west side. And then they leased the Kelly Lake truck stop and had that until the turnpike opened in '54 and that killed the truck traffic on 66 so they left that and opened one on main street called the Harvey House Cafe. Regan Siler And you said that was located where the Dollar General is now, currently. So did your did your mother run it? Did she cook there, like what? Frank Groom All of it. Regan Siler All of D, all of the above. Okay. Frank Groom And then when Safeway bought that corner property to put the Safeway store where Dollar General is now, they moved up the street and changed the name of it to Mom's Home Cooking. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Stay there until they retired in the 70s, probably early 70s. Regan Siler So did, did you and your siblings ever work at any of those restaurants? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Didn't have any choice? Regan Siler It was just part of it. So, now, I know you said, and, which, I'm kind of skipping ahead, but knowing that your dad was a carpenter, is that where you because I know you had the handyman business, which we'll talk about a little later on in the interview. But is that where you learned all your skills? Frank Groom Yes, and working with him and my granddad. My Granddad, Burris was also a carpenter, and was a real good teacher. So I learned a lot from my grandpa. Regan Siler To me, that is some of the most you can't put a price tag on the knowledge that you can gain from like learning a trade like that, like carpentry, which I feel like we're kind of losing in this day and age as far as craftsmanship and quality of work and things like that. So, I guess you did you enjoy it as a young person? Frank Groom Oh yeah, yeah. Regan Siler So so it wasn't something forced on you, it's something you you really wanted to learn and enjoyed doing. Frank Groom Yeah, I learned how to sharpen chisels, tools, saws and most people don't go have any idea how to do that. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So, yeah, it was a good experience. Regan Siler Good experience. So, did your dad just do any kind of carpentry work, or was there, did he have like, a specialty? Frank Groom Well, no, not really. He did anything that a carpenter would do. He built several houses here in Bristow, and remodeled and put roofs on just whatever people needed. Regan Siler Whatever needed to be done. So, did you, has your family, when did your has your family always lived in the Bristow area? I know you said you were born in Chandler. Frank Groom Well, we moved here when I was, like, four years old. So that would have been 1943 we moved to Bristow. Regan Siler And did your grand, did your grandparents live here? Frank Groom They did after we lived here. Regan Siler Oh, okay, so they moved here. They followed you here. Okay. Frank Groom My dad had a, well, they worked at the bomber plant in Tulsa during World War II. Regan Siler At the what plant? Frank Groom The bomber plant. Regan Siler The bomber plant. Oh, wow. Frank Groom In Tulsa, and my dad built scaffolding to go up around the airplanes for people to work on them. And my mom was a Rosie the Riveter type person. She put aluminum panels together for the airplanes. Regan Siler Oh, wow, that's amazing! Frank Groom And I remember they had a 1939 Buick, and there was six of them. They worked second shift, and then six people from Bristow, my dad drove, and the others rode with him, because that's the only way they could have get enough ration coupons to have enough gasoline to get there. My goodness, so and so, how long did he, how long did, what was the name of the, do you remember what the name of that, the bomb, the bomber plant was, or the? Frank Groom Well, it's where American Airlines has their repair depot now. Regan Siler So, it was out there? Frank Groom I really don't know what it was called. Regan Siler Okay, wow. And how long did he do that? Do you remember? Frank Groom Until the war was over. Until '47. Regan Siler Wow. Okay, um, so growing up, did you have, obviously, your grandparents were here. Did you have other family that lived nearby you? Frank Groom No. Our closest relatives were in Guthrie [Oklahoma]. Regan Siler Really? Okay. So just your grandparents on your dad's side? Frank Groom No, my mom's side. Regan Siler Your mom's side were the ones that lived here close to you. Okay, um, so let's talk a little bit about your early childhood. These are just some kind of fun questions to remember. Do you remember having any favorite toys or favorite games that you played as a child? Frank Groom Not really. I was an outdoor kid. If the weather was good. I was outside. Regan Siler So what did you do outside? Like, what were the things you did outside? Frank Groom We'd go to Sand Creek and play all up and down the creek and kick cans down the street. Regan Siler So did you mainly play with your siblings, or did you have friends that would come over? Frank Groom I had some little friends that lived in the neighborhood that's my age. I remember one of them was a little black boy that lived catty corner down a block or two, and when we started first grade, I had to go all the way to Washington School, and he only went a couple blocks down the street to Lincoln School. And I didn't think that was fair. He got the two blocks I had to walk six! I actually went to Washington School, also. Okay. Well, so did you have any chores that you were expected to do as a youngster? Frank Groom Well, we helped with, we took turns doing dishes, helped mom in the kitchen, hung out clothes on the clothesline on wash day, cleaned our own bedrooms, that kind of stuff. Regan Siler Right. So, you just did what needed to be done. Okay. So, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? Frank Groom My favorite thing was probably going down to my granddad's and working in his garden with him. I like to garden. I like to be outdoors. And he always had a garden, and that was a good excuse to go down and work the garden, then I could have supper with him. Regan Siler Oh, you had a little bit of an ulterior motive there. So what kind of things did he grow? Frank Groom All kinds of vegetables, you know, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, tomatoes, just typical family garden. Regan Siler So did that, I guess, kind of instill a love for growing things with you? Frank Groom Yeah, I still like do that. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. I wish we had a little more of that going on these days. I think that's maybe a little bit where we've, I don't know, lost some connection to family and doing things like that, because I remember, you know, picking and snapping green beans with my grandpa. And, you know, that's when you sit and you talk, and they tell you stories. Frank Groom Well, my mom and my grandfather canned a lot of stuff, you know. I remember they'd go to Porter [Oklahoma] every year and get, bring back, the backseat ofthe car would be full of peaches for us and other people. And we would can peaches for, seemed like a week, make jelly and everything. Regan Siler But I think doing that, you know, as a young person, you end up learning a lot of skills that I think, like I said, I feel, are kind of lost on, you know, probably my generation and younger, if that wasn't kind of handed down to you or something you did, traditionally, with your family. Do you remember collecting anything or having any, you know, having anything like that that you collected as a child? Frank Groom No, didn't do any of that. Regan Siler Well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. Did you first attend school at Washington? Frank Groom The first six years. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom Of course, that school is gone. Went to junior high school. That building's gone. Graduated 1957. Regan Siler Now, was it just me or going to, I can remember going to the junior high, boy, there were some hot summers in there trying to was it like that for you guys, too? Where you just you're you're sweating on your papers and trying to learn in the summer. Did you have any influential teachers during that time? Any that particularly stuck out to you, or you feel like maybe mentored you or helped you during that time? Frank Groom Well, Carolyn Foster [12/20/1912-7/10/2019]. Frank Groom She's been mentioned a lot in my interviews. Yeah, very beloved. Frank Groom She was a jewel. And Mrs. Gurley, Neva Gurley [5/1/1902-9/16/1997], when I was in high school. Mr. Roberts taught, I don't remember what, history, I guess. Regan Siler So, did, didn't Mrs. Foster, didn't she teach English? Okay, yeah. And was that in high school? Frank Groom That was in junior high. Regan Siler In junior high, okay? Frank Groom And Loren Roberts was a history teacher in junior high. Top notch guy. He later took a job at the college in Alva. I don't remember the name of what that is, North Central, anyway, that's Regan Siler That's where he ended up going? Frank Groom Finished out his career. Regan Siler Do you remember, so, I guess you just said I was going to ask, do you remember how you got to school as a youngster, but you had to walk six blocks. Frank Groom Grade school, yes, whatever it was to the junior high. Regan Siler To the junior high. So, where did you actually live in town? Frank Groom Lived on the corner of seventh east, seventh and Oak Street, Regan Siler And did you live there pretty much your whole Frank Groom Until I graduate from high school. Regan Siler So, you were there the whole time? Okay. Were you a member of any clubs or organizations during your school life, which would probably be more in junior high or high school. Frank Groom I was in the band from the seventh grade on. I was in the Projectionist Club in the high school. Regan Siler Now, what is the Projectionist Club? Frank Groom Well, of course, they don't have it now, but if the teachers needed to show a film, they had to have somebody that knew how to run the 16 millimeter projector. So we had a small club that we trained individuals to operate that equipment so they could have somebody to operate the equipment. Regan Siler Well, that's neat. Well, I did a little, I did a little digging on you, and I think you were like, really band was like, really your thing? Wasn't it? Like you were very good at it, and you were, I think, what were you a vice president of the band? Frank Groom No, no, I was a drum major. Regan Siler Drum Major, okay, and so you went to competitions and Frank Groom Yeah, I played solos at competition. Never did come out top dog, but always went, trying. Regan Siler Okay, um, and then were you on the Council of Methodist Youth Fellowship? You were involved in your church? Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler Um, and then explain to me what, is it Demolays? What is that? Frank Groom Well, it's kind of like a junior Masonic organization sponsored by the Masonic Lodge. Regan Siler Oh, okay. Frank Groom And it follows some of that ritualistic stuff. But it's just for, I think you're out when you're 21 that's as high as the upper age level. Regan Siler So, you've always kind of had a heart for for that kind of thing, because, I mean, you're still, you're still. Frank Groom It's a service organization. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom I don't even think they have one now. Regan Siler Well, I honestly, hadn't ever even heard of it until I have worked on some previous interviews. And Paula Atwell is my go-to history lady at the at the depot. So, she I was like, what is the what is the Demolays? Like, I had never heard of it, um, but sometimes I wish we still had programs like that. It seems like that would be good for our youth to be more, a little more service minded. Frank Groom Yeah, I think so. Regan Siler Yeah, okay, um, did you enjoy school? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Regan Siler You did? Did you did you do pretty well academically, or? Frank Groom I passed. Regan Siler Okay, fair enough. Did you have a favorite subject? Frank Groom Probably history. Regan Siler History. Frank Groom Once I got out of high school, and went in the Air Force, I found out how good of schools we actually had here. The way I was raised was a whole lot different than a lot of guys that I saw, like in basic training. Regan Siler That you experienced that in the Air Force that you Frank Groom Yes. Regan Siler Interesting. So, in what way, and I guess expand on that, how do you how do you? Frank Groom Well, a kid can't even sew a button back on his uniform. He doesn't have a clue on how to do that, or polish shoes. You have to teach them how to do this stuff when they're 18, 19, 20 years old. Regan Siler And you felt you had very well rounded skills. Well, that's good, that's good to know. So then you did attend college. So where did you tell me about that a little bit. Where did you end up going? Frank Groom After I got to the Air Force, I went to Grayson County Junior College, which it's where Perrin Air Force Base used to be between Dennis and Sherman, Texas. I went it all at night and got my APA there. And then I went to Texas A& ; amp ; M at Commerce, Texas, and finished out my degree, my bachelor's degree there. Regan Siler Okay, so I guess let's back up so you were in the Air Force. And how long were you in the Air Force? Frank Groom Eight years. Regan Siler Eight years. And can you give us any I guess your thoughts on what that experience was like? Frank Groom Well, I like, I liked it. I I enjoyed my service. Travel a lot. Got to see a lot of things. But, when I got out in '67 not sure how I should say this, but I came back from Japan. I was a Staff Sergeant E5 and I replaced the Chief Master Sergeant who was an E8, and because I had already passed all my proficiency stuff to qualify for a supervisor position at his level, but I had two tech sergeants that were still three-level because they weren't smart enough to pass the five-level test, much less the seven-level test. So, I went E5 and I've got E6's working for me, which don't work, but the upper management Air Force wouldn't do anything about it. And that really turned me against the process. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So I quit. Regan Siler You were done. Frank Groom After eight years. Regan Siler After eight years. Do you think if that would have been different or could have been resolved, you would have maybe stayed longer? Frank Groom Yeah, I do. But I didn't see it changing. Regan Siler Right, right. So, then you came back and went to college. So what did you study in college? Frank Groom Business. Regan Siler Business. Frank Groom Yeah, business administration. Took a lot of accounting courses, My minor is in economics and finance. My major is Business Administration. Regan Siler So I know whenever we had talked before, you said one of your main jobs throughout your career was in management and long-haul trucking. Can you tell me anything about that? Frank Groom Well, I had a when I worked for Pillsbury for several years, and I was when I left them, I was [indecipherable] manager. So, I had some trucking experience, and I, at that point, I had my own business. I had a high pressure cleaning business in Dallas area, and one of my customers, I told him I was thinking about getting out of it, because the EPA was starting to get real strict about soap going down this cleaning stuff going into drains and all that, so I was thinking about getting out of it. And he told me he had a friend that owned a trucking company, and he would check with him and see if he needed any employees. So, this fellow named Jay Trammel (ph) called me and invited me to come out and talk to him, which I did, and he hired me. And I went to work in their operating department as customer service and dispatching, and from there, it just that became my world. I really enjoyed it. Regan Siler So who were some of the companies that you worked for throughout your life? Frank Groom Well, I worked for J Lines (ph), which was J Travel Company (ph). Then I worked for JMI Transport out of Batesville, Arkansas. Worked for another little trucking company in Dallas for just a little while. Then I went to, what's the name of that, out of Salt Lake City, Utah, that's gone by the wayside, PS, PST Vans. That stood for Pacific States Transport and they just shortened it to PST. Now I went from there to Goodway Transport in Pennsylvania, after living in Salt Lake City for a while. Regan Siler So, you you went, you lived in Texas, then you went to Salt Lake, and then you went to Pennsylvania? Frank Groom Yeah. Went to Louisiana. Regan Siler So you, you, you got around for a while. So when did you end up landing back in Bristow? Frank Groom Well, in '97 I left the company in Louisiana and moved back to Bristow. At that point, I went to work for John Christner Trucking in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom And retired from there. Regan Siler And how long were you at John Christner? Frank Groom Little over eight years. Regan Siler Okay, all right. Um, okay. Well, we got a little bit sidetracked, because I wanted to talk to you about your your truck, your trucking career. Let's back up a little bit. And can you tell me about the the house you grew up in? I know you said it was on East Seventh. Um, did you have your own room? Frank Groom Oh, no. We had a three-bedroom house. My folks had what their bedroom. My sister got one by herself. Five boys were in the other bedroom. Regan Siler Oh! Frank Groom Two double beds and one twin bed. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom All in one room. Regan Siler So did you get along with your sibling siblings, or did that, did that make for some contentious times? Frank Groom There were times. Regan Siler I would imagine! So and you said you spent most of your time outside, which I think a lot of people from your generation did. It's not like it is now, where you can't hardly kick a kid outside. Frank Groom We had a big elm tree just outside the back door, and there was a place in it where I could set on limb. It's almost like a recliner and but I couldn't fall off, but the way the way the limbs were. And I would take my book and I'd climb that tree and get that nice spot. Regan Siler Oh, that's awesome! You don't have a picture of that, do you? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler Oh, man! Frank Groom We didn't have smartphones. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a neat place to hang out. Frank Groom Yeah, it was. I spent a lot of time up there and just get away from everybody. I could read not be bothered. Regan Siler Right! So, how old were you around when you hung out in your tree? How old would you say you were? Frank Groom Up through junior high school, probably. Well, until I got a car. Then everything changed. Okay, so tell me what meal times were like in your family. Did you eat together every night? Frank Groom Every night. Regan Siler I'm guessing mom cooked cooked meals, and everybody sat down. Frank Groom Yep, that's the way we did it. Regan Siler I like that. Um, and then you said everybody just kind of took turns on cleanup. Did you help cook too, or did mom, usually? Frank Groom I didn't, but my older sister did, and then my older brother would help but, Gib, the one younger than me, he's the only one that wound up in anything with food service. He went into the Army as as a cook and retired as a cook. Regan Siler Wow. Okay. Frank Groom [undecipherable] Regan Siler Wow. Okay, um, do you remember having a favorite meal? Or, you know, did you come away with any favorite recipes that your your mom made? Frank Groom My favorite then and still is, is probably brown beans, cornbread, fried potatoes. Regan Siler Man, you know, I've talked to some of my friends that aren't from here, and they can't wrap their head around that meal like and I'm like, I admit, I don't know, maybe it's like a southern thing or something, but that's, we always had that. It's good. Frank Groom That's probably still my favorite. Regan Siler Did your mom fix any favorite desserts or anything that you remember? Frank Groom Well, she was well known for her pineapple upside down cakes, which were fabulous, but that was a standout. That's what we always wanted. Regan Siler That was that was a treat, huh? Frank Groom She was just a super cook. Regan Siler Well, I imagine she would have to be for running restaurants for 40 years. So, thinking back to your life growing up around Bristow, did you have any like, favorite community activities? And by that I mean like you know you think about like Western Heritage Days, parades, county fair, what do you have any memory, specific memories of times like that, or things, I don't know, day camp and stuff like that that, that you did? Frank Groom Didn't have day camp then. I had never heard of that until I moved back to Bristow. But [undecipherable] we had the swimming pool at that time. I would rather go to Falls Creek, I mean, Little Falls or down to Salt Creek somewhere. Swimming pool was, it didn't smell good. Regan Siler You wanted to be in nature. Frank Groom Yeah, I wanted to be outside. Swimming pool just didn't, didn't hack it for me. Regan Siler Wasn't your, wasn't your cup of tea. So did you? So were you involved with any of like the Western Heritage Days activities? Frank Groom No, not back then other than in the band. We had parades and all that. Regan Siler Okay, alright, um, do you remember some of the biggest or most popular businesses around town? Frank Groom Think back, I can probably think of most of them, but the ones I miss are, like, JC Penney, Clark's Fine Clothes, Mr. Silver's jewelry store, Mr. Harvat's jewelry store. I could go and stand and look and watch, help, fix watches and stuff for hours. Regan Siler Well, I think it's neat because I came to Bristow in the, probably, early 80s, and it seems like there was a time before then, it seems like I kind of came at a time when Bristow was maybe kind of on a decline. And, so, to hear how Bristow was before that is has been really interesting to me, because it was a pretty it was a pretty happening town back in the day. Frank Groom Yeah, I can remember, up until I left and after graduating, that you couldn't find a parking space on Main Street on Friday and Saturday. And a farmer could drive their teams of the horses and park them past the alley and stake them out, so they could get up on Main Street. But, gosh, from especially Fifth Street to Ninth Street, especially, it was just wall to wall people and cars. Regan Siler So, what do you what do you think attributed to the change in Bristow? Regan Siler Walmart. You're not the only one that says that they, you know, feel like there was quite a downturn for the town once Walmart came. It's a real double-edged sword, isn't it? Yeah, interesting. Okay, um, did you have a favorite place, this is probably a silly question, did you have a favorite place to eat, or did you primarily eat at home? Frank Groom Walmart. Frank Groom Well, either the cafe or at home. Regan Siler Either one was your mom. Frank Groom About once a month, my dad would load us all up in a car and we'd go to, what's the name of that? It's a hamburger place in west Tulsa [Oklahoma] and all, you can't even go in. You have to order at the window andsit in a car at a table up the street or something. But that was the big deal. Once a month, we would go up there, all of you would get a hamburger and a milk shake. Regan Siler So that was a treat! Frank Groom That was a treat, yeah. Regan Siler And you don't remember the name of the place? Frank Groom What-a-Burger. Well, no, Lot-a-Burger. Regan Siler Lot-a-Burger. Frank Groom Yeah, it's still there. Regan Siler Really? Frank Groom The tree still there beside it. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Well, that's cool. Um, did you have a favorite place to hang out as a teenager? Frank Groom Skating rink, probably, and Anchor Drive-In. That was after you get your car. You'd go to the Anchor. Regan Siler So, was cruising Main a thing back then? Frank Groom Oh, yeah. Regan Siler Okay, yeah. I kind of miss those days. Frank Groom We'd turn around at Fourth Street, Fourth and the railroad tracks, go up to Tenth and go turn around behind the DX station and drag main again. Regan Siler See to me, that's when times were fun because we we still drug Main, even when I was in high school. But it kind of seems like it's not really a thing anymore. Like you drive through town at night and it's pretty dead. Frank Groom Yeah, well, it wasn't them. Yeah, you could see everybody. Regan Siler So, then skating rink time was that, before you got your car, that you would go? Frank Groom And after. Regan Siler And after. Frank Groom That was just, Regan Siler And that was down here at the at the old skating rink? Frank Groom Downstairs. Mrs. Barnett, Virginia Schrader, and Mrs. Beistle were the operators. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom That was the place to be the on Friday, Saturday night. Regan Siler Back when times were a little simpler. Frank Groom Yep, we didn't have the TV like we have now. I can remember when we got our first TV. We were the first people in that whole section of town to get a TV set. So, Harold [Harold White] that had the TV shop, come out, put it in, put the antenna up, and all that. You couldn't stir the people in the living room. All the neighbors were there to watch TV, and it was green. Regan Siler It was green?! Frank Groom Yeah, it had a greenish tent. It wasn't nice, sharp, black and white, you know, it was kind of the greenish color. Regan Siler Greenish color, I had never, so do you remember any particular TV shows or anything that you got to watch that was exciting for you? Frank Groom Actually, I did watch much TV. I still don't. About the only thing I watch is news and NASCAR races. That's it. Frank Groom Oh, big time. Kids nowadays don't know how to entertain themselves if they don't have a cell phone or some kind of tablet or device, device to play games and stuff on. Regan Siler Well, you know, it's kind of like the the Walmart situation. You know, when I do these interviews and I talk to people about how life was back then versus how it is now, and, you know, I know there's always a place for technology and that, you know, it's beneficial in so many ways. But, again, it's kind of a double edged sword. I think it take, it has really taken away from like relationships and being outside and doing things. Would you agree? Regan Siler And it seems like to me, it kind of stifles creativity because you you're not forced, because I know, when I grew up in the country, we would build weird forts in the woods, or, you know, we were in the creeks, or, you know, we would even sometimes play in the dump to see what we could get out to, you know, make a little house out of or whatever. And, I mean, I just don't think there's a lot of that that that goes on, because everybody has a, so for me, doing these interviews and hearing about how it used to be is kind of a, you know, makes me wish it was still like that in some ways. Frank Groom Well, like when I'd go, my grandparents lived out on Jackson, down past Fourth Street, about third or fourth block, and of course, it was half a mile from where we lived to their house. But I'd [indecipherable] out there, I had to walk. I had an old an old bicycle wheel. Didn't have a tire on it, just took metal ring of spokes, and I'd take a stick and I'd roll that thing all the way to grandpa's house. Or I'd, I'd get a can out of the trash, I'd kick it all the way to grandpa's house. Regan Siler I've actually had, I actually had another gentleman that I interviewed that said he did the exact same thing. Frank Groom I mean, something to do. Kids don't do that now. In fact, you can go up and drive around after school, and you don't see a teenager out anywhere. Regan Siler Yeah, yeah. I, I agree. Um, do you remember, back kind of on the TV thing, I know you said you didn't really watch it much, but do you remember happening, did you happen to see any pivotal moments on on TV growing up? Like I remember, one person said they remember witnessing like landing on the moon, and was there any pivotal moments you remember watching on TV? Frank Groom Not that I recall. Regan Siler Did you enjoy listening to music growing up? Frank Groom Yes, but I've got away from that, because I'm so hard of hearing that I've got a six year old pickup that's got a brand new radio that's never been turned on. Regan Siler Are you serious? Frank Groom Too distracting. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom I tried to listen and say I'm hard of hearing anyway, so I just don't, I just don't turn it on. Regan Siler And you didn't listen to music much as that seems crazy with you being in band and having been so involved with bands. Frank Groom Have you listened to today's music?! Frank Groom Well, I'm kind of old fashioned. I like older music, actually, but I just didn't know if, growing up, if there was any particular artist or music that you that you likd. Frank Groom Eddy Arnold, I remember him real well. That's probably really only the one that I really like to listen to, but I like, you know, back then you get all kinds of music on the radio, but now it's junk. I just don't care for it. Regan Siler Well, I can't completely disagree with you on that. So, what was medical care like for you and your family growing up? Did you have a family doctor? Did you take care of things at home? Frank Groom Well, some of both. Our family doctor was Dr. Harz who was a chiropractor, and he was on the third floor over the OG& ; amp ; E building. Regan Siler Really? I've not heard of him. Frank Groom I don't believe that. Regan Siler I don't think I have. I hear a lot about like, Dr King and but you say Harrs like H A R R S? Frank Groom H A R Z. He was German. Regan Siler Oh, okay. Frank Groom Had the strongest hands, but he was our family doctor until I left and went in the Air Force. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom So, if you're too sick to find those three flights of stairs, you're too sick to see him. You had to go somewhere else. Regan Siler You're just out of luck then, huh? Frank Groom But I never went to a dentist until I was in the Air Force. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom That's why I've got a set of false teeth now. Regan Siler Well, so do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything like that growing up that you or your family experienced? Frank Groom Well, I can remember having the chicken pox. I was I don't think I started school yet, and my grandparents still lived on the farm over by Chandler [Oklahoma], and that's where I was while I broke out. They put me in a bedroom upstairs and hung quilts over the windows, and I stayed in there for like three days. Regan Siler So, you were isolated. They put you in isolation. Frank Groom My grandma isolated me. She'd bring me some food. Regan Siler Slide it under the blanket. Frank Groom But when the mumps, there was a big deal on the mumps, and my mom and I was the only two in the family that didn't get them. Frank Groom Really?! Frank Groom But my dad, but all my siblings were that laid up with the mumps. Regan Siler Yeah, that sounds pretty miserable to not that the chicken pox are a walk in the park, but the I'd heard that the moms are pretty, pretty miserable. Frank Groom Of course, we all had measles, all that stuff. Regan Siler So, you had all the stuff that we get vaccinated for now. Frank Groom Oh yeah. Regan Siler Okay, um, I was going to ask if you attended church, but I guess you attended the Frank Groom I started out at the Baptist Church. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom I wised up and switched to the Methodist Church. Regan Siler Okay. Frank Groom It's still there. Regan Siler Oh, okay, okay, um, and is that in the same, like, the same building down here on Frank Groom Well, of course, they tore the old church down and built what's there now, but, yeah, same location. Regan Siler Same location. Okay, um, so do you remember how your family celebrated holidays? Did they celebrate them in a big way? Like, say, tell me, like, what Christmas was like for you growing up. Frank Groom Usually, we would go to Guthrie [Oklahoma], to my dad's folks, and I had an uncle that also had a restaurant, and that's where the family would meet for Christmas dinner. Regan Siler Oh, fun! Frank Groom At the restaurant. And I remember one of those Christmases, there was an old fella tapped on the door and tried to get in, and Uncle Marvin (ph) had the cafe, he went to the door and told him he's closed. And the old man, apparently, was like homeless, or anyway, invited him in and and they fed him. And then he asked if, if they had the jukebox that he wanted to listen to Rudolph. Regan Siler Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer? Frank Groom That's first time I ever heard it. The played it on the jukebox. Regan Siler Really? Frank Groom On a Christmas day. Regan Siler Oh, wow! Frank Groom And I remember that for some reason. Regan Siler Well, that was a core memory. It stuck out to you, Frank Groom Yeah, it did, and the fact that Uncle Marvin (ph) let the old fella come in and eat with us. I thought that was just a classy deal for him to do that. Regan Siler Yeah, a kind gesture. Frank Groom And I've saw my mom do it many times. Frank Groom Restaurant was always open. Regan Siler Right. Well, that's a neat story. Um, did you celebrate any other holidays, like the Fourth of July, Easter, Halloween, anything? Regan Siler Yes, you guys were always working. Frank Groom And Fourth of July is not a big deal to me. I despise fireworks of any kind. Regan Siler Yeah, I can imagine. Frank Groom I had a, and I don't remember his name, but he lost part of this finger the end of this one, and part of his thumb. He had a big firecracker and his his dad lit it for him, and he didn't throw it quick enough. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. So that was enough for you. Frank Groom I had nothing to do with fireworks. I grew up without them. My daughter grew up without them. Regan Siler So not your thing. Frank Groom Not my thing. Regan Siler Not your thing. It's not my dog's thing, either. Frank Groom Where I live I can sit on the porch and watch the city display. Don't even go outside. Regan Siler Don't even go outside. As a child, do you remember, do you did you have any thoughts of what you wanted to be when you grew up? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler So, you never, as a little kid, thought I'm going to be Frank Groom No, I really didn't. Regan Siler You didn't. You were just too busy playing in the creek. So, we talked a little bit about your jobs, and you said that you were primarily throughout your career in trucking management, but then you had also told me around 2006 that you started your handyman business. Can you tell me about that and what inspired that? Frank Groom Well, of course, my experience working with my dad, my grandpa, I knew how to do a lot of stuff, and people that knew me, Regan Siler They knew that, didn't they? Frank Groom Well, my wife and I were flipping houses before we ever heard of the expression. Regan Siler So, you were before Chip and Joanna Gaines, is that what you are saying? Frank Groom You bet. A long time before that. The house we had, the first house we had here in town was our 21st house in16 years. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness! Frank Groom Would buy one, live in it, fix it up, sell it, buy another one. Just and we moved a lot. Seemed like the only way you get ahead in the trucking business and change jobs. Go from a dispatcher to a manager to, you know, whatever. So, people get to know you and, hey Frank, come up here to Pennsylvania and talk to us about this job. Regan Siler Right, right. Frank Groom When they that they're going to go belly up, come down to Louisian and go to work for me, something like that. Regan Siler So, your jobs are what really drove where you guys ended. Frank Groom Right. Regan Siler And, then, so did your wife just kind of what career was she into? Frank Groom She worked at we lived in Texas for quite a long while, and she worked for the city of Arlington as a statistician. And she worked at Montgomery Ward for a while in there as accounting department. She waited tables when we first got married. When I was in the airforce, she worked at a restaurant. Regan Siler So, since we're talking about your spouse, can you tell us what her name is? Frank Groom Shirley Jean Dowdy [Shirley Jean Dowdy Groom 11/6/1938-1/29/2018]. We got married September 20, 1958. Regan Siler And I have her birth date as 11/6/1938. Frank Groom That's correct. Regan Siler Okay, yeah, because I had that wrong. So, what was your first impression of her whenever you saw her for the first time? Frank Groom Well, it was kind of strange. Another guy and I worked [indecipherable] in high school, and he and Shirley had been dating. And we were at the locker after lunch one day getting our books, and Shirley walked up and she said Dickie said, Dickie, don't forget, we've got this FHA thing. He said, oh I can't go. I forgot about that. You want to go? Sure, why not? So that was our first date. Regan Siler Did you just move on in? Frank Groom We got married three years later. Regan Siler Oh, well, that's funny. Frank Groom And stayed married for 60 years. Regan Siler 60 years. So, did you have, like, an engagement period? Did you propose and have an engagement period? Frank Groom Well, yeah, kinda. Frank Groom She was living after high school, she went to beauty school, beautician school, and I was working for a supermarket. Of cousre, we were back and forth all the time. I was living in Tulsa, and it just developed. Regan Siler Kinda? Regan Siler And that's that's that, huh? So, where did you guys end up getting married? Frank Groom At the Methodist Church here in Bristow. Regan Siler So, you did get married here? Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler Okay, um, can you tell us about your wedding? Was it a Frank Groom Real small family. Regan Siler Family. Frank Groom Maybe ten people and the preacher and that was it. Regan Siler Okay, okay. Um, so what were your early years of marriage like? Was there, did you have struggles? Was it fun when, I mean, Frank Groom We always had fun, but gosh, we hadn't been, she had a beauty shop over on Oak Street after she went to school. And we rented an apartment down on Fifth Street, and she had a phone put in with the same number as the beauty shop. The next morning, the phone rang, and I asked, somebody asked for Shirley Groom. I said, who?! It took a while. Regan Siler Oh, that's funny. You had to let that one sink in a little bit. Frank Groom But shortly after that, I took a job in Shattuck, Oklahoma. Regan Siler Shattuck, I've never even heard of Shattuck. Frank Groom It's about seven miles from the Texas line, straight west of Woodward. Just about as far as you can go and still be in Oklahoma. Regan Siler So, you took a job there, but still lived here? Frank Groom No, no, we moved. Regan Siler Oh, you moved, okay. Frank Groom And it was a trucking job. I was supposed to be the office manager for this little trucking company. Take calls, do the bookkeeping and all that. I didn't like sitting inside all the time, so boss would come in, of course, the oil field, they'd call in, they'd need a truck to do this or that. Nobody was around, I'd get in it and take off and go do it. So, anyway, I didn't do too much office work. Regan Siler You liked being out. Um, so do you have any children? Frank Groom Have one daughter. Regan Siler And what's her full name? Frank Groom Stella Reni, and her married name is Renner. Regan Siler Okay, um, and then did do I understand that she was, she also went into the military? Frank Groom She she wanted to learn to fly. Regan Siler She wanted to learn what? Frank Groom To fly. Regan Siler Oh, to fly, okay. Frank Groom And then she was a junior in high school, and, well, let's check into it while you can't afford prior to flying lessons. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom So, I said your only hope is going to the military if you could qualify and all that. So, she applied to the academies. Believe it or not, she got an appointment to all four military academies. Regan Siler Oh, wow! Frank Groom She picked the Air Force because she thought that'd be her best chance to fly. And she went to the academy, graduated and in '82. They sent her to a base in Mississippi to for pilot training. And she did real well, except she couldn't get them back on the ground. So, some kind of depth perception, but academically, in flight, I went down there because I thought maybe it was had to do with a good old boy, didn't want women flying. Yeah, but the colonel that was the head of the school said that he took her up and she she's great as long as they're in the air or in the classroom, but when it comes to put them back on the runway, he says, the airport can't keep putting land gear on an airplane, just so she can fly it. So anyway. Regan Siler So did you fly also? Frank Groom No. Regan Siler You didn't fly. Okay. Frank Groom Only as a passenger. Regan Siler Do what? Frank Groom Only as a passenger and didn't like that. Regan Siler Right, right. Well, I mean, I guess when you think, you know, you talk about depth perception or whatever, I mean, I guess when you think about it, there's a whole lot of factors in being able to be qualified to fly a plane that a regular person wouldn't even think about. Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler So, was that pretty, I guess, disappointing for her? Frank Groom Big time. And so, hey, just pick you another field and just be the best at it that you can. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom You know, you can't fly now. I mean, she had 30 some hours. Regan Siler Oh, man, that's a bummer! Frank Groom And just had to, you know, give it up. So, she picked the space program. So, she went to school in California and became a misssileer, you know, on the Minuteman missile site. And she went up in rank just like that. Everything I heard, she was really good at what she did. Frank Groom So, she took what you said to heart and went and did did the best. Frank Groom Yeah, but she was promoted to full blown colonel before 20 years, which is really unusual. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom But I read a, it's called an APR Airman Performance Report that a general wrote for her when she worked for him down at Randolph Air Force Base. And this is my kid. He's talking about?! Regan Siler Boy, that makes you proud, doesn't it. Oh, man. Frank Groom Anyway, he wrote on there "must be promoted". This was from Major to Lieutenant Colonel. Must be must be promoted next cycle. And she was. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom So, she made Lieutenant Colonel at about 15 years, 14, 15, years, and she just. And I got to pin all of her ranks on except when she made captain. I wasn't there for that one. Regan Siler Well, how special is that? Frank Groom When she graduated from the academy, I pinned her little gold bar on. When she made Colonel in Washington, Regan Siler And you're not proud at all, are you?! Frank Groom My biggest accomplishment! Regan Siler That's awesome! Frank Groom Yeah, she's quite a quite a young lady. Regan Siler So, is she out of the military now? Frank Groom She retired eight years ago. Regan Siler And where does she live? Frank Groom She lives in Monument, Colorado. Regan Siler I'm jealous if she's living in Colorado. Frank Groom When she retired, she was a Vice-Commandant of students at the Air Force Academy. Regan Siler Wow! Frank Groom And loved that area, so they bought a house and just stayed there. Regan Siler What a what a wonderful career. So, do you have any grandchildren? Frank Groom I've got one. Remington Shane Renner. He's 21 and he's in the Air Force stationed at Warner Robins in Georgia, and he's a cyber security guy. Regan Siler Wow, so he's probably busy, right? Frank Groom Yeah, he is unbelievably sharp on computers. Even in high school, he was named in high school as the outstanding computer science student. Regan Siler Wow. And everyone in the family stayed in the Air Force, too. Frank Groom Yeah, at one time, all five of us boys were in the service. Four in the Air Force and one in the army. Regan Siler Boy, I bet that stressed your mom out. Frank Groom Probably. It would me! Well, so, do you remember any challenges being like a dad when when she was young, like challenges of being a dad? Frank Groom Not really. We had a really good kid. Regan Siler Sounds like it. Frank Groom But anything she wanted to do we, we supported her, you know, she wanted to take dancing lessons. We got four years old. Started dancing lesson, and she continued dancing lessons since she graduated high school. Regan Siler Wow. Frank Groom She loved to dance. She wanted to learn to play the piano. That lasted a year or so. I don't really want to do this. Then she wasnted to learn to twirl. She was, she was in the band, and didn't really like that, but yet she became the drum major of the band. Regan Siler Sounds like a very driven kid or adult now. Regan Siler Exactly! Yeah. Frank Groom She set her mind to do something, she'd do it. Like she after she got, accepted her appointment to the Air Force Academy, she took a and I don't remember, it was some kind of science course that they had. It started at seven o'clock in the morning, because it was some kind of special class that probably wasn't 15 kids in it, but she wanted it to help her when she got to the academy. But when she got her grades, that class wasn't on it, so she went to the teacher said, you know, there's no grade on here for no credit for this class. He said you don't need it. You got enough credit to graduate. That's not the point. I want it on my transcript. Frank Groom He said, ah, not a big deal. So, she goes to the principal and tells him, and he's the same way. It's no big deal. Just forget about it. She said, when's the next school board meeting, I want to get on the agenda. Regan Siler I like her. She got it handled, didn't she? Frank Groom She sure did. Regan Siler Well, she sounds like something else. Frank Groom Well, it's like when she became drum major, I think she wanted to be drum major because I was, but she told that school had never had a girl for drum major. Well, the band director's son was same grade and he was going to be the drum major. And my daughter said, he doesn't know how to twirl a baton or conduct music. How's he going to, anyway, she became the drum major. Regan Siler Sounds like a very driven individual. Frank Groom Yeah, she did good. Regan Siler So, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? Frank Groom Atomic energy, probably. Regan Siler Wow, that's a that's a big one. And what and why do you why do you think that? Frank Groom Well, it's the least polluting method of generating power that there is, except for disposing of the spent radioactive material. But it could be a game changer if people would get over their fear of radioactivity. Yeah, we lived in Pennsylvania when the Three Mile Island thing, and it was a big to do in the news, but it wasn't a big to do right around where it happened. Regan Siler Oh, really? Frank Groom No, you know, people didn't Regan Siler Freak out about it. Frank Groom Pack up and leave and all that. It wasn't, it wasn't a big deal, to people that actually knew about what it was. Regan Siler So, then you feel like the fear is what keeps that from being Frank Groom Absolutely. Frank Groom Developed more? That's an interesting perspective. Frank Groom I think we could have, you know, I think it's electric cars is kind of got me concerned. But where are we going to get all the power to recharge those cars. Well, when they're telling us to you better get ready for power issues, because it's hot outside yet you're wanting everybody to plug in your cars. It kind of doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense, like they the technology was ahead of, you know, maybe the infrastructure, whatever, how to support it. I mean, I feel like there's probably a place for electric cars, but not to the degree that they're pushing them, because you can't support powering them. Frank Groom We don't have the infrastructure to furnish that amount ofpower. Regan Siler Yeah. Frank Groom Right now. Regan Siler That is the that's the first time anybody's answered atomic energy to that question that I, I like that perspective. Frank Groom It's, it's probably the least used invention. Regan Siler In present time. Frank Groom For peace time use. I'm talking about, you know, generating electricity. It doesn't take a lot of resources, other than the building, the containment, for it to operate in. Regan Siler So, how do you feel the world is different than whenever you were a child? Frank Groom Oh, gosh. Regan Siler Like, let you count the ways. Well, just sum it up for me, what, what do you feel is the biggest difference? Frank Groom I think the ability of people to get along. You know, they, I don't, I know people that don't even know the next door neighbors, you know? And if they, if they do, they don't say anything good about them. Regan Siler Right, right. Yeah, well, I feel like, and that's something else I wanted to touch on, I feel like you're somebody that's been very involved with public service and, all the different, I'd like for you to tell us about some of the boards that you have served and continue to serve on and and what drives you to do that. Frank Groom Well, I'm on the city council now, and I previously served eight years. I'm on the Board of Directors at Bristow Social Services, and have been for since 2017. And I'm on the board at the Bristow Housing Authority, and I've been, I'm just going into my second year with that. Regan Siler And what's your drive for, for being a part of all of those things? Frank Groom Help. Just to be useful. Help people. I got involved with social services. The Foster Family donated the buildings to the social services. Regan Siler The one going out on 48 [Highway 48]? Frank Groom Yeah, the one that's south. Where it's at now. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom And Mr. Krumme [George W. Krumme 12/15/1922-7/18/2024] donated the money to renovate it, and they had entered into a contract with a contractor locally. And the Saturday beforehe was supposed to start on Monday, he came in and said, I'm not going to do that. Not going to do your building. Regan Siler So kind of left him in a pickle. Frank Groom And I happened to be in the office. And I said, rather than going out and finding a new contractor, I'll take on that job with one condition, that I pick who I use to do the work. You know, I'm not an electrician. I'm not a plumber and all that. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom And the board agreed to that. Regan Siler But that also probably gave you a little quality control, too. Frank Groom Yes, it did. And, so, I kind of shut my handyman business way down and spent a year. Regan Siler A whole year you were there working? Frank Groom Just about. Regan Siler Oh, my goodness. Frank Groom To get it where it is now. And it has grown way beyond what we ever thought it would do, you know, with how many people we serve, and it's just a lifesaver for a lot of people. Regan Siler And as a result of that, you were voted Citizen of the Year, is that correct? And that was in 2017 or 18? Frank Groom '17. Regan Siler 2017 for your work that you did with social services. Which I don't know, I mean, that's pretty amazing, that you spent that much time working on it and getting it ready for the community. Frank Groom Well, I also got a lot of volunteers to help and but we used the court-appointed, not a court-appointed,but the court-directed community service. They would send them to us, and we find something they could do. Regan Siler Well, that's good. Frank Groom Which helped a lot. And social services, I'd known the guy that had been the chairman down there for years, and anyway, as a result of him leaving the board, I got on the board and found out there was lots of problems. Regan Siler Lots of stuff that needed worked on. Frank Groom Yeah, so anyway, we've got all that in the process, that's a work in progress, getting that changed. The executive director is no longer there, and we've got an interim director trying to get it straightened out and making good progress. Regan Siler That's good. That's good. So, how do you feel about being on the city council, and you're in your you served eight years, and then you're back on now, serving a term of someone that left the council. Is that right? Frank Groom Yeah. Regan Siler Do you plan on running again? Frank Groom I don't know. Regan Siler Not sure? Frank Groom Not sure. Regan Siler You're not going to announce any breaking news? Frank Groom Well, actually, I mentioned, I'm very hard to hearing, and I'm getting new hearing aids next week, next Monday. And they're they're going to be Bluetooth enabled, so, and they also told me this through the VA, and they also told me that they'll get me a microphone, that when I'm in a meeting, I can set that Iike in the middle of the table, and then I can hear everybody. Regan Siler You can hear better. Frank Groom So, if that works like they say it will, I might run for it. But you're familiar with the room? Regan Siler Oh yeah. Frank Groom Over there. Regan Siler Oh yeah. Regan Siler So, you struggle. Frank Groom I'm on the very right end. Which means one year next to the wall. I can't hear. Frank Groom The four down on the far end. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom Almost impossible to hear them. Regan Siler And is it the same way with city council, you feel like that's something that you just want to try to make a difference in the community? Frank Groom Yeah, I served on the municipal not municipal authority, the industrial authority. I served, I was president of that for several years, and my big accomplishment was when I sold the old garment factory building. Everybody said, ain't nobody will buy that. I found buyerand sold it, got a big down payment, and then we financed it. And Kell Kelly, financed at 6% and Kell Kelly saw me at one of the meetings, and he said, I can't believe we got 6%. We can't get that at the bank. Regan Siler Well, that's good, that's good. Frank Groom That's that's the feather in my cap from that time. Well, I feel like you definitely have a heart for service and for your community. You've been involved in so many different things, and you know, honestly, that's part of the reason why we wanted to visit with you. We felt like you had a lot to share. Frank Groom I like my Bristow. Regan Siler Yeah, I do too. Okay, what do you feel is our nation's biggest problem right now, and how do you think it can be solved? Frank Groom Our biggest problem is Trump and the MAGA, what do they call them M A G A? And that far right-wing attitude. And where we're going to cure it is to get rid of it. Regan Siler Okay. Regan Siler And how do you, how do you, how do you get rid of it? Frank Groom Well, you gotta vote out the ones that are in now and not vote the ones that are wanting to get in. Regan Siler Okay, all right. Frank Groom And I'm not a Democrat, by the way. Regan Siler Okay, have any historic events affected your life? And if so, how and like, for example, Oklahoma City Bombing, 911, COVID, any natural disasters. Anything affected you? Frank Groom When John Kennedy was assassinated, I was in the Air Force, and I was, and I remember this real vividly. I was in the north hangar at Perrin Air Force Base. And there's probably 10 airplanes in it, and all this ground power equipment, people working, but somebody had a radio and that announcement came on, and just like that, it was dead silence in that hanger. Everything shut down, and we got where we could hear, you know, and listen to that announcement. I guess nothing happened at the hanger for a couple hours. It just, Regan Siler Oh, I can imagine. Frank Groom Everybody couldn't believe it. And I remember that just as vividly as I mean, if I think real hard, I probably can tell you the guys that were standing around at the time. Regan Siler Right. It was another one of those core memories that sticks with you. Frank Groom The Murrah Building, I was working for a company in Pennsylvania, but we had a terminal in Oklahoma City, and I was on the phone with the Terminal Manager, and heard this noise. What in the hell? Regan Siler Oh, my gosh. Are you serious? Frank Groom He said, I think one of the propane tanks must have blew up. He said, I'll call you back. And about that time, you could see it on the news. Regan Siler Oh my goodness, yeah, so you were on the phone with him and heard it? Oh my goodness. Frank Groom Yeah, the terminal was with the Feed the Children complex out there on Council, I think the street that it's on. Yeah, it is Council. And that's, that's where he was. He was in his office, there, and I was in Pennsylvania. Regan Siler Oh my gosh. Frank Groom When the blast went off. Regan Siler Wow. Frank Groom And then, of course, we turned TV on, and because we had a TV in the dispatch and had the Weather Channel on it so dispatchers could see what all the weather was on the country. So we switched it over to CNN, or whatever one and watched it. That was unbelievable. Regan Siler That's kind of how I felt with 9/11 and my son was about two, and I was pregnant with my second son, and I just remember it kind of like what you said in the at the hanger. You just, you're kind of frozen, and you're just watching everything unfold in disbelief, you know. Frank Groom When 9/11, I was working at Christner up here, and I walked in the dispatch, and everybody was over around the the weather TV, but they were, and I hadn't heard a thing about it. And they said, Frank, Frank, did you hear about this? No, I haven't. But, there again, nothing happened for about two hours. Regan Siler Right. Oh, yeah. Frank Groom Couldn't believe they just stuck to that TV. Regan Siler Yes, yes. Frank Groom I think the Kennedy one probably affected me more than most, because I really admired him. Regan Siler Right. Yeah. Um, well, is there anything else that you would like to tell us about, or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? Frank Groom I don't know if there's a lot of wisdom there. Regan Siler I know you have to have some wisdom in there you want to share. Frank Groom Not that I could think of, just, you know, treat people like you want to be treated. Regan Siler I agree. Frank Groom That's about as simple as it gets right there. Regan Siler Yeah, I think that's Frank Groom And help people when they need it. Regan Siler Yes. Well, I think you're definitely an example of that. Frank Groom Yeah, yeah. We try, yeah, we built, oh, gosh, I don't know how many handicap ramps we've built here in town and different places, repairing stuff for people. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom It's what you do. Regan Siler Right. Frank Groom Or what you should do. Regan Siler What you should be doing, huh? And there's no other stories or anything else you want to share with us that we didn't, we didn't touch on. Frank Groom Well, there's probably some, but you don't want them recorded. Regan Siler Oh, gosh, well, we have really appreciated you taking the time to visit with us today,. Your interview willbecome an important part of our oral history archive for the museum, and we appreciate you and thank you. Frank Groom You're welcome. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0062_Frank_Groom.xml OHP-0062_Frank_Groom.xml
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Title
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Frank Groom
Description
An account of the resource
Franklin Ewing Groom, born August 14, 1939, in Chandler, Oklahoma, discussed his life and family history. His parents, Floyd Franklin Groom and Thelma Carmen Burris, owned restaurants in Bristow for 40 years. Franklin has five siblings, with four still living. He learned carpentry skills from his father and grandfather. Groom served in the Air Force for eight years, attended Grayson County College and Texas A&M, and worked in long-haul trucking management. He was involved in community service, including serving on the city council and boards for Bristow Social Services and Housing Authority. Groom emphasized the importance of public service and treating others well.
Identifier
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OHP-0062
Date
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2024-08-06
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video
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/c1ab0c67e25e46c9be4e27b571bb34c0.jpg
6ff0971fa09eb2bb198fae103d74491d
Dublin Core
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Title
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Pinehill Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
Description
An account of the resource
Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral history.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Bob McCarty
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George Krumme
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0002-04_George_Krumme_Oct_1976.xml
Interview Keyword
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between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the
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“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
natural gas, drilling, Hoppy Toad Oil Company,
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5.4 OHP-0002-04 George Krumme Bristow Quadrangle OHP-0002-04 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Bristow Historical Society, Inc. natural gas, drilling, Hoppy Toad Oil Company, George Krumme Bob McCarty MP3 1:|9(4)|20(13)|30(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0002-04 Krumme, Geo.mp3 Other audio 0 Drilling in Bristow Quadrangle GK: According to Bulletin 759 by A.E. Fath of the Oklahoma Geolog-of the United States Geological Survey on the geology of the Bristow Quadrangle in Creek County, Oklahoma which was printed in 1925 but the work began on it-field work for it-began in 1915, the first well drilled in 17-93 was drilled in section 36 by Oklahoma Natural Gas Company. Drilling of the second and third successful natural gas wells in the Bristow Quadrangle A.E. Fath ; Bristow Quadrangle ; drilling ; Glen Freeman ; Hoppy Toad Oil Company ; Oklahoma Natural Gas Company Drilling for natural gas in Bristow Quadrangle https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0759/report.pdf Geology of the Bristow Quadrangle Creek County, Oklahoma In this brief 1976 interview, George Krumme (1923- ) discusses a 1925 United States Geological Survey geological report covering the “Bristow Quadrangle” oilfield area and early oilfield companies in the area. BM: This is an interview with George Krumme from the oil company on the location, the survey company, of the first well that was drilled in the Pinehill Community. GK: According to Bulletin 759 by A.E. Fath of the Oklahoma Geolog--of the United States Geological Survey on the geology of the Bristow Quadrangle in Creek County, Oklahoma which was printed in 1925 but the work began on it--field work for it--began in 1915, the first well drilled in 17-9 was drilled in section 36 by Oklahoma Natural Gas Company. They drilled--they found a gas stand at a depth of 990 to 1,010 feet, which would be, I' ; m sure, the Cleveland sand, and they encountered an initial flow of seven million cubic feet a day. They turned the gas into their twelve-inch line which at that time ran through just south of where that well would be and carried gas to Oklahoma City from the oilfields of eastern Oklahoma. In 1917, the well was re-opened after having been shut down for some time and at that time its open flow capacity was 350,000 cubic feet a day and the rock pressure was 375 pounds. It was the second successful well in the Bristow Quadrangle according to Fath. pause in recording GK: --Fath, in 1913, another well was drilled in 17-9 in section 29 and also in 1913 a well was drilled in section 33, 17-9. And unless I' ; m wrong, that well in section thirte--33 was the well they called the " ; Hoppy Toad Well" ; because it was drilled by the Hoppy Toad Oil Company which was one of the companies of the Freeland brothers. Glen Freeland worked on that well and my brothers--my brother and I, my brother Harlan and I--are married to sisters. Their father, F.S. Freeland, worked on that well in 1913 out on Wild Horse Prairie, just north of highway 66, and was drilling on it and caught some--I forgot whether it was typhoid or some ailment and didn' ; t finish completing the well. And he told us about where the well is, I know exactly where it is, on the north side of the road on Wild Horse Prairie. So those are the first three wells drilled according to Fath. end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0002-04_George_Krumme_Oct_1976.xml OHP-0002-04_George_Krumme_Oct_1976.xml
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4620
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
George Krumme
Description
An account of the resource
In this brief 1976 interview, George Krumme (1923- ) discusses a 1925 United States Geological Survey geological report covering the “Bristow Quadrangle” oilfield area and early oilfield companies in the area.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0002-04
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1976-10
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/6bf8300b686191fa60cf16f6e48255eb.jpg
1638e248941b04e871aefaa612ece044
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George Krumme
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml
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contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Unknown OHP-0027-01 George Krumme OHP-0027-01 0:00-14:38 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. George Krumme MP3 1:|51(9)|63(9)|75(9)|87(11)|101(13)|116(3)|129(1)|142(3)|155(11)|169(13)|183(14)|196(10)|209(5)|222(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0027-01 Krumme, George.mp3 Other audio 0 The Woodland Queen GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In the 1920’s, local boosters called Bristow the ‘Woodland Queen’, where oil flows and cotton grows. Nowadays, you would have to leave the county to find the cotton field, and flowing oil wells are mostly a thing of the past. The first big well drilled near Bristow was drilled by a continental petroleum company, composed mostly of Bristow investors led by A.A Rollstone and Claud Freeland. In October, 1921, continental completed its number one well on the Dunlap farm two miles east of town for sixteen hundred barrels a day in the Dutcher sand. Within a few months, continental sold out for five million dollars. The pool steadily expanded until it reached the very edge of Bristow. A virtual forest of derricks covered the eastern skyline of Bristow by the mid 20’s. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment of about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow A.A. Rollstone ; Claud Freeland ; Dunlap Farm ; George Krumme ; Woodland Queen 78 Bristow Poor Farm GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Before old age assistance and cover social services were made available by the state of Oklahoma, counties were authorized to establish central residences for poor and aging citizens who had no family to take care of them. They were called Poor Farms because they were located on enough land to allow the residents to raise livestock and plant a garden. Our county Poor Farm was located on a hundred and eighty-acre track about two miles southwest of Bristow. In 1920, Homer Wilcox discovered oil just east of the Poor Farm and wells were subsequently drilled on the farm by Wilcox Oil and Gas. He best well was completed at twenty-eight hundred barrels per day ; the pool was formerly named ‘The Poor Farm Pool’, and the creek county Poor Farm was declared to be the richest poor farm in the world. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil days in Bristow. George Krumme ; Homer Wilcox ; Poor Farm ; The Poor Farm Pool ; Wilcox Oil and Gas 149 Strange Curve in Highway 66 GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. About two miles west of Bristow on Highway 66, there is an inexplicable kink in the pavement about a half mile west of Kelly Lake and just before you get to the country poor Farm cemetery. Nowadays, there seems to be no reason for this bend in the road, and it turns back westward in the next hundred yards or so. But in 1926, when Highway 66 was built and for several decades thereafter, the reason for the double bend was obvious ; a couple of years before the road was constructed, Wilcox Oil and Gas Company had drilled their number two Harjo Well. If the road had not been deviated slightly, it would’ve run almost into the standard rig, which was pumping the well. So the road zigged just enough to zag around the well, which has long since been plugged. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow George Krumme ; Highway 66 ; Kelly Lake ; Poor Farm ; Wilcox Oil and Gas 219 Tom Slick and Slick, Oklahoma GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Most people, including the writers of some Oklahoma histories presume that a new town platted in 1920 was named Slick because Tom Slick had discovered oil near the town side. Actually, Tom Slick had no part in the discovery of the pool. Here’s how the town was named: Slick had made a lot of money after it had discovered oil at the Cushing pool, he was married to the daughter of J.A. Freitas (ph), who was a professional real estate developer. Freitas convinced his son-in-law to put up much of the money to construct a railroad from Bristow to New [Indecipherable], with the intention of eventually extending the line to Okmulgee. Part of the promotion was to found a town side on the railroad ten miles east of Bristow and that town was named from the man who furnished the money, so the town was named Slick and the oil pool, which had already been discovered, took its name from the town side instead of the other way around. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow George Krumme ; J.A. Freitas ; Slick, Oklahoma ; Tom Slick 289 Roland Oil Company GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1912, Frank Barns promoted a well on the earnest Alex, east three miles southwest of Bristow. The well was dry at 28,084ft and the oil lease expired. Eight years later, A.A. Rollstone took the new lease on the Alex farm. Rollstone had just formed a new company with Claud Freeland, which they called ‘The Roland Oil Company’. The Roland Hotel, Roland Creek, and the Roland addition are also named after Rollstone and Freeland. Roland stated [Indecipherable] well Alex, near the old dry hole and struck prolific production in Dutcher sand about two hundred feet deeper than the Frank Barns duster had been drilled. Their number one Alex was the second biggest well ever completed in Creek County, so I guess the lesson to be learned is never give your well up as a dry hole until you drill is 200ft deeper. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. A.A. Rollstone ; Claud Freeland ; Creek County ; Frank Barns ; George Krumme ; Roland Creek ; Roland Hotel ; Roland Oil Company 354 Wilcox Oil Company GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1924, Homer Wilcox staked a Wildcat on a block of acreage around the Sac and Fox Indian Reservation South of Stroud. Wilcox got a dry hole in the deep sands, completed three wells, and a shallower sand. Nice little poo sand wells, but nothing to get excited about. So Wilcox allowed all the other leases he had taken in the area to expire and drill. It was ten years before Wilcox noticed they the three wells had refused to decline like wells normally do, which indicated that the poo reservoir was much better than he had believed. Wilcox quietly bean began leasing again [Indecipherable] drop ten years before. After assembling a size of a block, Wilcox began drilling poo sand wells. He eventually completed more than 100 producers with almost no dry holes. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. Homer Wilcox ; Sac and Fox Indian Reservation ; Wilcox Oil Company 420 Chester Cushing Bristow Adventure GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. Almost all of the early wells around Bristow were drilled with cable tools and at one time, there were hundreds of wooden Derrek’s standing in our vicinity. I know of only one standard wooden Derrek erected anywhere after 1940 and it wasn’t Bill Ryan Oil company, this was by Chester Cushing, a Bristow man who was running what was left of the Tim Cushing tools and supply. In 1944, he decided to drill a wildcat well just south of Bristow, across from South Ridge on the west side of highway 48. Chester pieced together nan authentic standard rig, bull wheels, walking beams, steam engines bordering all of the trimmings. Chester didn’t have much money, so he drilled the well himself. His wife Ann was his tool [Indecipherable]. They struggled about four years off and on and finally gave up. But as they say, easy come easy go. However, they should’ve received some personal satisfaction in knowing that they had possible drilled the last well to ever drill with a standard rig. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Bill Ryan Oil Company ; Chester Cushing ; Chester Cushing Bristow Adventure ; George Krumme ; Tim Cushing Tools and Supply 490 How Oil Barrels Became 42 Gallons GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. If you bought a barrel of crude oil, would you get 55-gallons? Most people think so because they remember the 55-gallon drum in which the motor oil is sold. In reality, a barrel of crude oil means 42-gallons. In the early days of the industry, crude oil was actually shipped in wooden barrels, a standard barrel was supposed to contain 40-gallons, but exact measurement was difficult and a 5% variation in the contents of a barrel was allowed. 5% of 40-gallons is 2-gallons, so if a barrel contained between 38 and 42 gallons, it was acceptable. As pipelines and tank cars replaced barrels for the transportation of crude, the need for a 5% variation disappeared but the custom of the purchaser getting 42-gallons in each barrel did not. So a barrel of crude oil was officially declared to mean 42-gallons and it still does. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. 42 gallons ; 55-gallon ; crude oil ; George Krumme 557 How Barrel Became BBL GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. The abbreviation for barrel should include only one ‘B’, yet the standard abbreviation for barrel in the oil industry is BBL, and there’s a historical reason for this oddity. In the early days in the industry in Pennsylvania, all the crude oil was shipped in wooden barrels. Naturally, the capacity of any individual barrel varied according to the scale of the [Indecipherable] who made it. It was soon noticed that the barrels furnished by the firm run by a certain John D. Rockefeller were consistently good barrels. In order to easily identify his barrel, Rockefeller had them all painted blue. The blue barrel became the standard used in the field and reference was common and made to so many blue barrels in the measurement of crude. The abbreviation of Blue Barrel became ‘BBL” and this abbreviation is still used industrywide to this day. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. BBL ; Blue Barrel ; George Krumme ; John D. Rockefeller 625 Charlie Tibbons GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1920, Charlie Tibbons drilled three shallow gas wells on the [Indecipherable] allotment 5 miles south of Bristow. There were good gas wells, but he found the real bonanza when he drilled in the deeper Dutcher sand. The number four [Indecipherable] made 90 barrels an hour. [Indecipherable] was a full blood [Indecipherable] engine and still owned the land on which the discovery was made. Her granddaughter and only living heir is [Indecipherable] Tiger Fry, who lives on a ranch about 10 miles east of Bristow. Eventually, more than 40 wells were drilled on the 160-acre allotment. More than one gathering company laid pipelines with the [Indecipherable] tank battery. Years ago, punk Corey told me that Tibbons daily production was so important, that every morning Tibbons would have representatives of the pipeline companies appear in his office to bid against one another, with the highest bidder being allowed to buy all that days production. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Charlie Tibbons ; George Krumme ; Tibbons Daily Production 694 The Roland Gusher GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. When Rolland Oil Company staked its number one Alex in January of 1922, as a long step out from the new Poor Farm pool, they naturally hoped for a good Detrol oil well. They’d get a lot more than what they bargained for. When the oil sand was struck, the gas blew the string of cable tools up the hole, and somehow the tools became lodged near the top of the casing. The drillers ran in a string of fishing tools which they promptly lost in the hole. Soon, the well began flowing oil. At 1:30 in the morning, they turned the well into the only tank on the location. The well filled the five-hundred-barrel tank in the first hour with both string of tools still in the hole. With great difficulty, the drillers shut the well in and Rolland began erecting more tankage and building earth and dams with horse draws slips and scrapers. The daily Oklahoma reported that the well was making 12 thousand barrels a day through a small crack in the six inch of valve with two strings of tools still in the hole. The Bristow record declared that the Alex was the best well in the state, and that 23-year-old Eugene Clifford Alex, the [Indecipherable], had just bought himself a Packard twin six with his royalties. But Rolland wanted the tools out before they caused trouble that might lead to chunking the hole. They decided that the flow was so strong that it might blow the fishing tools out of the hole if the well were allowed to flow wide open. So one morning, a week or so later, they opened the control head and allowed the stream to flow unchecked straight up through the wooden Derrek. Sure enough, shortly afterwards, they heard a bloops at the control head and saw a thousand pounds of steal fly up the Derrek and fall back to the rig flower. Much pleased, they quickly rotated the control head to divert the flow back into the tanks. What they didn’t anticipate was that the heavy flow had also dislodge the drilling string, which they had lost in the hole, and that it was following the fishing tools. The half-ton of drilling tools hit the control head with such momentum that it broke the head into pieces. The well was then flowing wild, completely out of control, spraying oil over a mile straight to the north, and speckling houses all the way into Bristow three miles away. Working in slickers and praying that the oil would not catch fire, within six to eight hours, the crew succeeded in screwing on a new control head and the well was under control again. The Bristow record reported that the wild well had furnished more excitement per square inch than anything else ever known in Bristow or anywhere else. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Eugene Clifford Alex ; George Krumme ; Poor Farm ; Roland Gusher ; Roland Oil Company The following programs recorded in 1998 by George Krumme, a longtime Bristow oilman. In the following programs, George Krumme discusses the early oil industry in Bristow. Interviewer: George Krumme Interviewee: Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0013 Side B at 00:00 to 14:38 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In the 1920' ; s, local boosters called Bristow the ' ; Woodland Queen' ; , where oil flows and cotton grows. Nowadays, you would have to leave the county to find the cotton field, and flowing oil wells are mostly a thing of the past. The first big well drilled near Bristow was drilled by a continental petroleum company, composed mostly of Bristow investors led by A.A Rollstone and Claud Freeland. In October, 1921, continental completed its number one well on the Dunlap farm two miles east of town for sixteen hundred barrels a day in the Dutcher sand. Within a few months, continental sold out for five million dollars. The pool steadily expanded until it reached the very edge of Bristow. A virtual forest of derricks covered the eastern skyline of Bristow by the mid 20' ; s. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment of about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Before old age assistance and cover social services were made available by the state of Oklahoma, counties were authorized to establish central residences for poor and aging citizens who had no family to take care of them. They were called Poor Farms because they were located on enough land to allow the residents to raise livestock and plant a garden. Our county Poor Farm was located on a hundred and eighty-acre track about two miles southwest of Bristow. In 1920, Homer Wilcox discovered oil just east of the Poor Farm and wells were subsequently drilled on the farm by Wilcox Oil and Gas. He best well was completed at twenty-eight hundred barrels per day ; the pool was formerly named ' ; The Poor Farm Pool' ; , and the creek county Poor Farm was declared to be the richest poor farm in the world. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil days in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. About two miles west of Bristow on Highway 66, there is an inexplicable kink in the pavement about a half mile west of Kelly Lake and just before you get to the country poor Farm cemetery. Nowadays, there seems to be no reason for this bend in the road, and it turns back westward in the next hundred yards or so. But in 1926, when Highway 66 was built and for several decades thereafter, the reason for the double bend was obvious ; a couple of years before the road was constructed, Wilcox Oil and Gas Company had drilled their number two Harjo Well. If the road had not been deviated slightly, it would' ; ve run almost into the standard rig, which was pumping the well. So the road zigged just enough to zag around the well, which has long since been plugged. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Most people, including the writers of some Oklahoma histories presume that a new town platted in 1920 was named Slick because Tom Slick had discovered oil near the town side. Actually, Tom Slick had no part in the discovery of the pool. Here' ; s how the town was named: Slick had made a lot of money after it had discovered oil at the Cushing pool, he was married to the daughter of J.A. Freitas (ph), who was a professional real estate developer. Freitas convinced his son-in-law to put up much of the money to construct a railroad from Bristow to New [Indecipherable], with the intention of eventually extending the line to Okmulgee. Part of the promotion was to found a town side on the railroad ten miles east of Bristow and that town was named from the man who furnished the money, so the town was named Slick and the oil pool, which had already been discovered, took its name from the town side instead of the other way around. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1912, Frank Barns promoted a well on the earnest Alex, east three miles southwest of Bristow. The well was dry at 28,084ft and the oil lease expired. Eight years later, A.A. Rollstone took the new lease on the Alex farm. Rollstone had just formed a new company with Claud Freeland, which they called ' ; The Roland Oil Company' ; . The Roland Hotel, Rolland Creek, and the Roland addition are also named after Rollstone and Freeland. Roland stated [Indecipherable] well Alex, near the old dry hole and struck prolific production in Dutcher sand about two hundred feet deeper than the Frank Barns duster had been drilled. Their number one Alex was the second biggest well ever completed in Creek County, so I guess the lesson to be learned is never give your well up as a dry hole until you drill is 200ft deeper. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1924, Homer Wilcox staked a Wildcat on a block of acreage around the Sac and Fox Indian Reservation South of Stroud. Wilcox got a dry hole in the deep sands, completed three wells, and a shallower sand. Nice little poo sand wells, but nothing to get excited about. So Wilcox allowed all the other leases he had taken in the area to expire and drill. It was ten years before Wilcox noticed they the three wells had refused to decline like wells normally do, which indicated that the poo reservoir was much better than he had believed. Wilcox quietly bean began leasing again [Indecipherable] drop ten years before. After assembling a size of a block, Wilcox began drilling poo sand wells. He eventually completed more than 100 producers with almost no dry holes. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. Almost all of the early wells around Bristow were drilled with cable tools and at one time, there were hundreds of wooden Derrek' ; s standing in our vicinity. I know of only one standard wooden Derrek erected anywhere after 1940 and it wasn' ; t Bill Ryan Oil company, this was by Chester Cushing, a Bristow man who was running what was left of the Tim Cushing tools and supply. In 1944, he decided to drill a wildcat well just south of Bristow, across from South Ridge on the west side of highway 48. Chester pieced together nan authentic standard rig, bull wheels, walking beams, steam engines bordering all of the trimmings. Chester didn' ; t have much money, so he drilled the well himself. His wife Ann was his tool [Indecipherable]. They struggled about four years off and on and finally gave up. But as they say, easy come easy go. However, they should' ; ve received some personal satisfaction in knowing that they had possible drilled the last well to ever drill with a standard rig. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. If you bought a barrel of crude oil, would you get 55-gallons? Most people think so because they remember the 55-gallon drum in which the motor oil is sold. In reality, a barrel of crude oil means 42-gallons. In the early days of the industry, crude oil was actually shipped in wooden barrels, a standard barrel was supposed to contain 40-gallons, but exact measurement was difficult and a 5% variation in the contents of a barrel was allowed. 5% of 40-gallons is 2-gallons, so if a barrel contained between 38 and 42 gallons, it was acceptable. As pipelines and tank cars replaced barrels for the transportation of crude, the need for a 5% variation disappeared but the custom of the purchaser getting 42-gallons in each barrel did not. So a barrel of crude oil was officially declared to mean 42-gallons and it still does. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. The abbreviation for barrel should include only one ' ; B' ; , yet the standard abbreviation for barrel in the oil industry is BBL, and there' ; s a historical reason for this oddity. In the early days in the industry in Pennsylvania, all the crude oil was shipped in wooden barrels. Naturally, the capacity of any individual barrel varied according to the scale of the [Indecipherable] who made it. It was soon noticed that the barrels furnished by the firm run by a certain John D. Rockefeller were consistently good barrels. In order to easily identify his barrel, Rockefeller had them all painted blue. The blue barrel became the standard used in the field and reference was common and made to so many blue barrels in the measurement of crude. The abbreviation of Blue Barrel became ' ; BBL" ; and this abbreviation is still used industrywide to this day. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1920, Charlie Tibbons drilled three shallow gas wells on the [Indecipherable] allotment 5 miles south of Bristow. There were good gas wells, but he found the real bonanza when he drilled in the deeper Dutcher sand. The number four [Indecipherable] made 90 barrels an hour. [Indecipherable] was a full blood [Indecipherable] engine and still owned the land on which the discovery was made. Her granddaughter and only living heir is [Indecipherable] Tiger Fry, who lives on a ranch about 10 miles east of Bristow. Eventually, more than 40 wells were drilled on the 160-acre allotment. More than one gathering company laid pipelines with the [Indecipherable] tank battery. Years ago, punk Corey told me that Tibbons daily production was so important, that every morning Tibbons would have representatives of the pipeline companies appear in his office to bid against one another, with the highest bidder being allowed to buy all that days production. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. When Rolland Oil Company staked its number one Alex in January of 1922, as a long step out from the new Poor Farm pool, they naturally hoped for a good detral oil well. They' ; d get a lot more than what they bargained for. When the oil sand was struck, the gas blew the string of cable tools up the hole, and somehow the tools became lodged near the top of the casing. The drillers ran in a string of fishing tools which they promptly lost in the hole. Soon, the well began flowing oil. At 1:30 in the morning, they turned the well into the only tank on the location. The well filled the five-hundred-barrel tank in the first hour with both string of tools still in the hole. With great difficulty, the drillers shut the well in and Rolland began erecting more tankage and building earth and dams with horse draws slips and scrapers. The daily Oklahoma reported that the well was making 12 thousand barrels a day through a small crack in the six inch of valve with two strings of tools still in the hole. The Bristow record declared that the Alex was the best well in the state, and that 23-year-old Eugene Clifford Alex, the [Indecipherable], had just bought himself a Packard twin six with his royalties. But Rolland wanted the tools out before they caused trouble that might lead to chunking the hole. They decided that the flow was so strong that it might blow the fishing tools out of the hole if the well were allowed to flow wide open. So one morning, a week or so later, they opened the control head and allowed the stream to flow unchecked straight up through the wooden Derrek. Sure enough, shortly afterwards, they heard a bloops at the control head and saw a thousand pounds of steal fly up the Derrek and fall back to the rig flower. Much pleased, they quickly rotated the control head to divert the flow back into the tanks. What they didn' ; t anticipate was that the heavy flow had also dislodge the drilling string, which they had lost in the hole, and that it was following the fishing tools. The half-ton of drilling tools hit the control head with such momentum that it broke the head into pieces. The well was then flowing wild, completely out of control, spraying oil over a mile straight to the north, and speckling houses all the way into Bristow three miles away. Working in slickers and praying that the oil would not catch fire, within six to eight hours, the crew succeeded in screwing on a new control head and the well was under control again. The Bristow record reported that the wild well had furnished more excitement per square inch than anything else ever known in Bristow or anywhere else. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml
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George Krumme
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The following programs recorded in 1998 by George Krumme, a longtime Bristow oilman. In the following programs, George Krumme discusses the early oil industry in Bristow.
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Regan Siler
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5.4 May 20, 2024 OHP-0057 George Krumme OHP-0057 01:16:53 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory George Krumme Regan Siler 1.0:|19(14)|36(5)|45(3)|55(21)|65(14)|72(15)|79(14)|90(9)|102(15)|111(17)|118(18)|126(11)|142(7)|162(8)|174(7)|187(9)|205(16)|222(17)|230(18)|252(5)|271(3)|283(11)|300(4)|318(10)|326(14)|336(14)|352(16)|363(9)|379(16)|405(7)|425(6)|433(11)|446(16)|454(4)|466(10)|478(12)|497(15)|504(8)|524(8)|535(18)|553(7)|562(16)|576(16)|590(15)|611(6)|628(15)|647(5)|662(8)|669(7)|685(16)|702(3)|710(3)|725(12)|736(13)|750(5)|757(11)|768(10)|776(12)|793(8)|809(3)|819(5)|840(13)|854(11)|869(14)|885(15)|898(3)|905(15)|913(3)|927(12)|950(7)|962(10)|976(4)|1004(3)|1017(17)|1035(6)|1042(11)|1071(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0057 Krumme, George.mp4 Other audio 4 Early Life & ; Family RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 20, 2024, and I’m sitting here with Mr. George Krumme at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little about his life, his history with Community Bank and his history with the Bristow community. Can you please tell me your full name?
 ; 
 ; GK: George William Krumme.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview?
 ; 
 ; GK: Certainly.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born?
 ; 
 ; GK: I was born December 15, 1922 at a farm about three miles northeast of Okemah, Oklahoma.
 ; Mr. Krumme was born northeast of Okemah and talks about his mother, father and siblings. Okemah (Okla.) ; Roy Archibald Krumme ; Ruth Bryan Krumme ; Margaret Ruth Krumme Pickett ; Rachel Augusta Krumme Mcmillen ; Roy Halrlan Krumme ; Jefferson Bryan Krumme family 0 120 George's Father, Roy Archibald Krumme GK: My father was reared a farmer. He was born in 1892, and at that time, the vast majority of citizens in this country were farmers. His family was a large family, which was not all that unusual. His grandfather was, paternal grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, and his maternal grandmother was named McBride. She was Scotch-Irish, and we never knew where they came from, but the family, his grandfather, actually, ran a shoe store in St. Joseph, Missouri. His family, his father was a farmer and farmed the glacial soils, much better soil than Oklahoma’s in northwestern Missouri. The family moved to Chandler in Oklahoma territory about 1900 because my maternal grandmother, pardon me, pardon me. My paternal grandmother McBride’s [Dora Ellen McBride Krumme 1873-1972] father, John McBride [John Wesley McBride 1840-1904] had purchased a homestead. That is to say, he worked at the homestead at Chandler [Oklahoma] in the Sac, Sac Indian.
 ; Mr. Krumme's father was reared a farmer and moved to Chandler in Oklahoma Territory. St. Joseph (Mo.) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Dora Ellen McBride Krumme ; John Wesley McBride ; Iowa Tribe ; J.W. Krumme ; Indian Territory ; Okemah (Okla.) ; C.C."Kit" Walker ; First National Bank of Okemah Father 0 725 Early Childhood RS: So, when did you actually, when did your family move to Bristow? How old were you?
 ; 
 ; GK: I would have been six-years-old. Let me see, I would have been seven. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Seven.
 ; 
 ; GK: It was 1930. My two sisters and my older brother needed to go to high school, junior high for some, but high school, I think for Margaret. For, maybe two years, certainly a year, my two sisters lived with a boarding house with a woman that my mother had become acquainted with, because mother didn’t want one girl to be there by herself. I think they were 13 and 15 or 14 and 12. I don’t know about that. But, at any rate, they lived there, but then when Harlan got close, they decided that we should move to Bristow. And one year we moved, renting, that is, mother and just the children. Dad stayed at Tuskegee [Oklahoma], mostly, although he came in on the weekends. At any rate, we rented a house for one year, and then the next year in 1930, we bought our home at 409 West 11th Street [Bristow, Oklahoma].
 ; George talks about moving to Bristow. He also mentions his siblings and some of the games he enjoyed as a child. Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jefferson Bryan Krumme ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Creek County (Okla.) ; Deep Fork (Okla.) Childhood 0 1162 Automobiles GK: So, really it was impractical although, obviously, in good weather, we, quite frequently, went to visit the family.
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 ; RS: And how did you travel? In what manner did you travel?
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 ; GK: By the twenties, cars were quite common.
 ; George talks about automobiles that were around in his childhood. He mentions his father owning a Dodge Coupe and then later a Model-T Ford. Dodge Coupe ; Model-T Ford Automobiles 0 1252 Mother's Family GK: My mother’s family, my mother was one of eight. She was the next to the youngest child. Her father [Jefferson Scott Bryan 1849-1894] had died when she was six-years-old of tuberculosis, the white death. They lived at Republic, Missouri, just out of Springfield. Grandfather, Jefferson Bryan was his name. Mother’s name was Bryan as I told you. Had contracted tuberculosis which was quite common, even, I think, worse in England than here, that I have seen the numbers of famous people who died of tuberculosis in the late 1800’s in England, and it’s astounding. But it was also became common in the United States, and my grandfather, my mother’s father contracted it and was dying. Geoge's mother was one of eight children. They lived in Missouri. Her father died of tuberculosis when George's mother was 6 years old. He had traveled to Arizona for treatment. Jefferson Scott Bryan ; Republic (Mo.) ; Springfield (Mo.) ; England ; Tuberculosis ; United States ; Phoenix (Ariz.) Family 0 1422 Schooling RS: Your schooling, elementary school?
 ; 
 ; GK: All this background is to say that my mother was one of eight girls, pardon me, six girls and two boys. The two boys were both young. One was just older than her, and the other one was just younger. The others concentrated on teaching. Several of them, I won’t say all of them, but several of them taught, including, eventually, my mother, briefly. George recalls starting school when he was 5 years old. His aunt was his first teacher and he was in class with his cousin, Charles. He graduated from Bristow High School at 16 years old. Nellie Bryan Woford ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Charles Bryan Woford ; Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Bristow High School school 0 1762 Oklahoma A& ; M RS: That’s amazing. So, I also read that you attended college at Texas A& ; M as a music major? 
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 ; GK: No, it was Oklahoma A& ; M.
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 ; RS: Oklahoma A& ; M.
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 ; GK: At Stillwater.
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 ; RS: Okay.
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 ; GK: Not Texas, I’ve never been.
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 ; RS: Okay, so that wasn’t right. Okay.
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 ; GK: I went there two years. The first year, since I had played in the band, seriously, and fancied that I had some musical talents, I planned on being a band major, drum, pardon me, a band teacher, a band director.
 ; George attended Oklahoma A& ; M University in Stillwater. He majored in music his first year and planned on becoming a band director. He quickly realized that was not what he wanted to do so he enrolled in pre-law his second year of college. Oklahoma A& ; M ; Stillwater (Okla.) Oklahoma A& ; M 0 1850 Spartan School of Aeronautics RS: Okay. Alright. And then I also read, did you attend Spartan School of Aeronautics?
 ; 
 ; GK: This would have been in 1941, and they had just passed, sometime the previous period, a draft. And, while I would have not been eligible yet for the draft, we faced draft and were concerned about going to war. And my cousin, Charles, had already quit. He was going to Stillwater, but he only went one year and was going to Spartan School of Aeronautics studying mechanics. He convinced me that if I would enroll in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics, I would be in a vital industry, and I would be free from the draft. I was 18-years-old. I had finished two years when I enrolled in Spartan School of Aeronautics and took a, supposedly, a year training program. It was supposed to be a full year.
 ; George enrolled in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics. His cousin, Charles, convinced him that this should make him free from the draft. When the war began, George was hired to teach weather to aviation cadets. Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, Okla.) ; Draft ; War Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, Okla.) 0 1966 Teaching Aviation Cadets RS: So, you were only 18 whenever you did that?
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 ; GK: I was hired, I was 19 by the time I was, let’s see was I 19? Yes, I was 19 by the time I was hired to teach aviation cadets, and I did teach at, I was a junior instructor in meteorology, I believe it was, hired by the civil service at $2000 a year. I taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas for the most of the rest of 1942. George Krumme taught aviation cadets. He was hired when he was 19. He taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas. Later he enlisted in a pre-meteorology sea program and was there until it was cancelled after a year. Perrin Field ; Sherman (Tex.) ; lieutenant ; Pomona College (Claremont, Calif.) Aviation 0 2130 Infantry GK: But, at any rate, a few of us out of the 200 of us who were originally in the program, a few of us were sent to the infantry, so I was sent to the infantry in, I think it was March or April of 1943, and I became a machine gun trainee, shall we say, in Company G, 274th Infantry Regiment, 70th Infantry Division. I went overseas with them and was in our first, by the time I went overseas, I was promoted to be squad leader. I had four men under me, a machine gunner and an assistant machine gunner and two ammo bearers who [indecipherable] and a spare barrel for the machine gun, which was the light air-cooled machine gun, not the water cooled. But I was squad leader by the time we got overseas. George became a machine gun trainee in the infantry in 1943. He was a squad leader by the time they were sent overseas. He received a silver star and was commissioned as Second Lieutenant. Infantry ; Germans ; Alsace (France) ; Silver Star ; Second Lieutenant Infantry 0 2342 Life After the War RS: That’s amazing. How long were you active in the military before you returned to Pomona College?
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 ; GK: From the time I enlisted, I was in 3-1/2 years because when the war was over, since I had, we had arrived there late, we stayed for an extra six or seven months before we could be sent home. So, I came home in April or May of 1946 and applied at Pomona and they were willing to accept me. And since I had so many hours at A& ; M [Oklahoma A& ; M], plus a full year of concentrated, I could graduate with a degree in one semester, which I did. I got out in January of ’47. My father had already offered my brother an opportunity to join a company that he had just formed in the previous few years, Krumme Oil Company. He offered me the same opportunity, although my brother had a degree from OU [University of Oklahoma] in petroleum engineering, just at the war ended. He had no experience, but nevertheless, the two of us worked with him first, mainly, as drilling contractors, drilling with cable tools, but eventually, building up a company that had production.
 ; George finished up his degree at Oklahoma A& ; M when he returned home from the war. He then worked with his brother at Krumme Oil Company (a company his father had formed.) George and his wife, Eddy, moved from Bristow to Tulsa in 1960. He went to night school and received his masters of petroleum engineering from the University of Tulsa. Later he went on to get his PhD in geology. Pomona College (Claremont, Calif.) ; Krumme Oil Company ; University of Oklahoma ; Edwynne Rollstone Freeland Krumme ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Oklahoma Geological Survey War 0 2564 Marriage RS: That’s amazing. Well, you mentioned your wife, so let me, if you don’t mind, let me ask you about your first wife. When and where did you meet her?
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 ; GK: We met when she was, probably, a sophomore and I was, well, just graduated, a freshman. I was, had just graduated as a junior. And, so, we went together all the time I was in high school, and even when I was at A& ; M [Oklahoma A& ; M], I came home for her, and I’ve never had another date with any girl.
 ; George was first married to Edwynne Rollstone. They dated while George was in high school and even while he attended Oklahoma A& ; M. She suffered from dementia in her later years and passed away in 2011. He later married Aldean Thompson. They had actually been neighbors in Bristow when George was sixteen and Aldean was ten. Oklahoma A& ; M ; Edwynne Rollstone Krumme ; Dementia ; Grace "Aldean" Thompson Newcomb Krumme ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Amaron Petroleum Marriage 0 2709 Children and Grandchildren RS: Okay, can you tell me how many children you have and what their names are, please?
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 ; GK: Two sons. Eddy and I had David in 1948, and David William Krumme [2/1/1948-2/15/2013], and Robert Bryan Krumme in 1950.
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 ; RS: Okay.
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 ; GK: May 27th.
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 ; RS: Okay. Can you tell me, do you have grandchildren?
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 ; GK: I have four grandchildren, two living in, David’s two children live in Estes Park, Colorado, or the area and have no children. Robert’s two children, a boy and a girl, live with, also all three of them live in the south part of Jenks [Oklahoma], live in Jenks.
 ; George Krumme has two sons, David and Robert. He has four grandchildren. David Willaim Krumme ; Robert Bryan Krumme ; Estes Park (Colo.) ; Jenks (Okla.) Children ; Grandchildren 0 2788 Occupation RS: Okay, and then you had mentioned to me that you spent your entire career in the oil business. Was that just with family business with Krumme Oil?
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 ; GK: Krumme Oil Company, yes.
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 ; RS: Okay, okay. Well, now that we have a little background on you, I would like to talk to you a little bit about your involvement with Community Bank. George spent many years in the oil business (Krumme Oil Company.) His father was invited to be on the board at Community Bank in 1930. When his father passed away in 1975, Geoge and his brother alternated being on the board. Krumme Oil Company ; Tuskegee (Okla.) ; Community Bank ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Krumme Truck and Implement Agency ; Oldsmobile Automobile Agency ; Chamber of Commerce occupation 0 3017 Banking in Bristow GK: Only about three years after dad died, the Foster brothers wanted to sell the bank, and there were several of us on the board who were children, sons of previous board members. Roger Collins was on the board. David Loeffler [10/20/1920-8/10/1986] was on the board. And Tom McAdams [4/6/1919-3/6/1991], all four of our fathers, had been on the board. And we decided to buy the bank. I think the year was 1978 is my guess. George and three other board members bought Community Bank from the Foster brothers in 1978. There were originally four banks in Bristow but later was narrowed down to two (Community Bank and what is now SpiritBank.) Community Bank was able to survive the Depression because of its cautious lending and good management. Roger Collins ; David Loeffler ; Tom McAdams ; Anadarko (Okla.) ; Hugo (Okla.) ; Community State ; First State Bank ; Community State Bank ; Bristow National Bank ; First National Bank ; American National Bank ; Arthur Foster ; Great Depression ; Albert Charles Kelly ; President Roosevelt ; Governor Murray ; Chamber of Commerce ; scrip banking ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 3600 Great Depression and the Dust Bowl RS: Okay. And if the Great Depression wasn’t hard enough, that also transitioned into the Dust Bowl time period. What was life like for families and businesses during that time period of the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl era?
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 ; GK: Bristow claimed to have about 12,000 at one time. But by the time the Depression was over, it was down to about 3,000 or so. Now, I’m not sure about that. It might have been 4,000, but at any rate, it has maintained about 4,000 ever since. The Depression caused empty houses throughout Bristow. Bristow claimed to have a population of about 12,000 before the Depression. After the Depression population in Bristow was down to about 3,000 to 4,000. Many people went to California. Bristow was affected like the rest of the country during the Depression. Great Depression ; Dust Bowl ; California ; Edison School ; Washington Elementary School Great Depression ; Dust Bowl 0 3720 Community Bank RS: Yeah, what year did you take an active role with Community Bank, and can you tell us how that opportunity presented itself?
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 ; GK: I think it was in 1978, well, no my first was because my father died in ’75, and I suspect that Robert, pardon me, I suspect that my older brother Harlan was put on the board first as the older brother, and I normally went on there in 1976 or seven or something like that.
 ; George was put on the board at Community Bank in 1976 or 1977, after his father passed. Community Bank was one of two banks in Bristow in the late 1920's. It was formed when two banks went under to make Community. Bristow had American National and what was then Community State Bank. The name changed to just Community Bank around 1979. Eventually George and his brother ended up owning all of the shares to Community Bank. It has grown to be an equal competitor with Spirtbank (originally American National.) Community Bank ; American National Bank ; Sooner Southwest Bankshares Inc. ; Oklahoma Southwestern ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Hugo (Okla.) ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; SpiritBank Community Bank 0 4368 Future of Community Bank RS: Yes, you have wonderful employees there. Okay, well let’s talk about the future of Community Bank. This might be a hard one. Where do you see it in the next 100 years?
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 ; GK: I have no idea about what will happen to anything in the next 100 years, but all I can do is anticipate that they will continue to be successful, and certainly, I hope so.
 ; George anticipates that Community Bank will continue to be successful in the years to come. Community Bank ; future future ; Community Bank 0 4392 Inventions RS: Continued success. I think so, too. Well, shifting from bank history, I’d like to ask you a couple of fun questions, and we are about to wrap this up, okay? What would you consider to be the most important invention during your life time?
 ; 
 ; GK: Well, all I can say the thing that probably has turned the world upside down more than anything else, is electronics. The latest thing, which in communications and all that. Of course, both airplanes and cars had come in by the time that I was born. Radio was just really prospering when I was born. George reminisces that radio was really starting to prosper when he was born, later followed by the television. Bristow had one of the first radio stations in Oklahoma. Electronics ; radio ; television Inventions 0 4485 Wisdom from a long and healthy life RS: Okay, so as someone that’s 101, what type of wisdom would you like to share with us of your secret to a long and healthy life? 
 ; 
 ; GK: Oh.
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 ; RS: Tell us your secrets!
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 ; GK: I don’t really know that I have, would presume to give a secret. All I can say is, that I have tried to exhibit integrity, honesty and, I will say, continued attention to work. George finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says that he has tried to exhibit integrity and give attention to his work. He mentions he was fortunate enough to make the right decisions and believes luck also plays a part in success. wisdom ; Community Bank Wisdom 0 MP3 Mr. Krumme shares about his life as a youngster growing up and going to school in the Okemah, Tuskegee and Bristow area. He talks about attending college and joining the service, as well as, returning home to start his career at Krumme Oil Company. He shares about his married and family life and talks, extensively, about his history with Community Bank and what his hopes are for the future of Community Bank. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is May 20, 2024, and I’m sitting here with Mr. George Krumme at the Bristow Library Annex. He’s going to tell us a little about his life, his history with Community Bank and his history with the Bristow community. Can you please tell me your full name? GK: George William Krumme. RS: Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview? GK: Certainly. RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? GK: I was born December 15, 1922 at a farm about three miles northeast of Okemah, Oklahoma. RS: Okay, and can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What was your father’s full name? GK: My father was Roy Archibald Krumme [8/28/1892 – 2/25/1975]. He never liked the name Archibald, so he, generally, signed Roy A. or R.A. Krumme. My mother’s name was Ruth Bryan [1888-1963]. She had no middle name, so her name was Ruth Bryan Krumme. RS: Okay, and did you have any siblings? GK: I have three older siblings and a younger. The oldest child was Margaret [Margaret Ruth Krumme Pickett 7/6/1913-2/8/2003]. Rachel [Rachel Augusta Krumme McMillen 1916-1990] was next. And then my brother, Harlan [Roy Harlan Krumme 5/19/1919-11/22/1998], whose actual name was Roy Harlan, but always called Harlan. My younger brother was Jefferson Bryan [Jefferson Bryan Krumme 1924-2008], named for his maternal grandfather. RS: Okay, alright. And what type of work did your parents do? GK: My father was reared a farmer. He was born in 1892, and at that time, the vast majority of citizens in this country were farmers. His family was a large family, which was not all that unusual. His grandfather was, paternal grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, and his maternal grandmother was named McBride. She was Scotch-Irish, and we never knew where they came from, but the family, his grandfather, actually, ran a shoe store in St. Joseph, Missouri. His family, his father was a farmer and farmed the glacial soils, much better soil than Oklahoma’s in northwestern Missouri. The family moved to Chandler in Oklahoma territory about 1900 because my maternal grandmother, pardon me, pardon me. My paternal grandmother McBride’s [Dora Ellen McBride Krumme 1873-1972] father, John McBride [John Wesley McBride 1840-1904] had purchased a homestead. That is to say, he worked at the homestead at Chandler [Oklahoma] in the Sac, Sac Indian. RS: The Sac and Fox? GK: No. No, I’m sorry. I take it back. It was not Sac and Fox. It was the Iowa Tribe ; a very small tribe that had surplus that was made available by run. The person, the man who made the run really was a speculator. All he wanted was the property, and he did not go very far. He sold it for $25 to my Grandfather McBride. At any rate, my parents came at his invitation and insistence, I suppose, from good farm land in Missouri to questionable farm land in the hills and black jacks and post oaks west of Chandler [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. GK: And they, he was elderly, and they occupied his, part of his 168 acres of land, and when he died, by the time he died, which I think was about five years later, they had been there farming, doing most of the farming, because I think he was [indecipherable] and I believe that he was rather elderly. All this is a little bit unessential, but nevertheless, the farm family was quite large. The Krumme, the J.W. Krumme family, my grandfather’s family had fifteen children born in it. My father was the number two. His older sister, he had an older sister, but he was the oldest boy, and as such, he really was the assistant, shall we say, principal assistant as most children, boys particularly, were in the farming part of it. The ladies looked after the homes more than the farms, of course. Although, they worked, too, really. At any rate, my father, therefore, had to learn an awful lot and be more ambitious or aggressive member of the family. He really was quite enterprising. But the family, in 1906, after my great-grandfather died, had an opportunity, or saw the opportunity, to go to Indian Territory because the allotees, the Indian allotees and Freedman allotees, were selling, quite frequently, there allotments. So, they, the full family came to northeast of Okemah [Oklahoma], not where I was born but about a mile away, and bought, eventually. They leased for years. I never knew when they finally did buy it, but they leased half of a Creek Indian allotee woman, allotment, because the allotment was split into two different 80’s about a mile apart, 80-acre tracts. They leased one and built a house on it, and, eventually, bought it, including half of the mineral rights which was quite common in those days. The Indians would keep half of the mineral rights in case, someday, something was found there. RS: Right, so, you said you were born a few miles outside of Okemah [Oklahoma], how long did you live there as a youngster? GK: One year. RS: You only lived there one year? GK: My father, at the age of 18 or 19, applied and passed, pardon me, passed an examination to be a rural mail carrier, in addition to, he did some farming, but he had worked other places. He had actually worked for a bridge company, just as a teenager. Even as far as Kay County, as I said, he was quite enterprising. He passed the examination and was allowed to be, hired to be a rural mail carrier out of Okemah [Oklahoma] and did so for a half a dozen years, while moonlighting, shall we say, also, buying land and farming on his own. And leasing, he bought land and leased it out and let other people farm it. It was quite common. But, at any rate, he had bought this particular 80 for himself, where I was born. My two sisters were born in the metropolis, shall we say, of Okemah, Oklahoma, but by the time my older brother was born, we had actually, the family had moved to the farm northeast of Okemah [Oklahoma]. And I was born three-and-a-half years later in the same place. But I only lived there a year because my father had, in his business affairs, buying land on credit, had dealt with a banker named C.C. Walker [C.C. “Kit” Walker] at, I think it was, First National Bank of Okemah [Oklahoma]. At any rate, Walker had put together, a couple of decades earlier, a community north of Okemah [Oklahoma], 18 miles where he had built a cotton gin and a general store, which he ran for a decade or so. And then got interested in the bank at Okemah [Oklahoma], at any rate, he was an officer of the bank. And he had taken to leasing out his land, and he owned more than two thousand, somewhere between one thousand and three thousand, not all owned, some of it was leased from the Indians who had kept it, but did not live on it. At any rate, he leased to my father the entire package, and the little village. It was hardly even a village. There were only a half a dozen or so houses close to the store and the gin. He leased it for a five-year period for $5000 a year because he had faith in my father. And my father would have been in his early 30’s which is quite young to absorb that much responsibility. But, as I say, he was quite competent. At any rate, we moved there was when I was one-year-old, because the lease began in 1924, and he kept that lease by three renewals of five years, and then one year afterwards. So, he was there 16 years. RS: So, when did you actually, when did your family move to Bristow? How old were you? GK: I would have been six-years-old. Let me see, I would have been seven. RS: Seven. GK: It was 1930. My two sisters and my older brother needed to go to high school, junior high for some, but high school, I think for Margaret. For, maybe two years, certainly a year, my two sisters lived with a boarding house with a woman that my mother had become acquainted with, because mother didn’t want one girl to be there by herself. I think they were 13 and 15 or 14 and 12. I don’t know about that. But, at any rate, they lived there, but then when Harlan got close, they decided that we should move to Bristow. And one year we moved, renting, that is, mother and just the children. Dad stayed at Tuskegee [Oklahoma], mostly, although he came in on the weekends. At any rate, we rented a house for one year, and then the next year in 1930, we bought our home at 409 West 11th Street [Bristow, Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. GK: He bought our home at 409 West 11th Street. RS: Okay. Well, can I ask you a little bit about your early childhood and your home life? I just wanted to get a few details from you, maybe. Do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played? GK: One of the favorite games for all, not just country people, but city people, was croquet. RS: Croquet? GK: And I don’t know that anybody plays croquet anymore, but it was a very good game and quite enjoyable, and we played croquet on the lawn. We had Bermuda grass lawn, and we had court with wickets and stakes, and we played croquet. There was not an awful lot, of course, in the country to do, but I do remember one of the things that we did was roll a hoop, a steel barrel hoop, maybe about eight or ten inches around from a little barrel. But it was a flat hoop which rolled in front of us with a stick, with a little guide, shall we say, at the bottom of it. And that was a quite common thing for kids to do. RS: Well, that’s interesting. GK: And, of course, the cotton gin being there, we roamed around and spent quite a, often, I should say, in the cotton house, because the cotton seed house. The cotton seed sticks together quite well, and because of the lint that’s on the seed until it goes to further treatment from a cotton gin. We used to play in there digging caves and so forth. And, of course, the cotton gin had to have water because it was a steam engine power, and we swam in the pond in the summer time. We all learned to swim when we were quite young. RS: Well, that sounds like fun. Did you have any particular chores that you were expected to do when you were a youngster? GK: Actually, my brother, older brother was old enough that he had to milk a cow. Not always, because dad had several hired people who did it, and I don’t remember exactly when it began. I did learn to milk a cow, but I never was really responsible because we left when I was seven. RS: Okay, okay. And, did you have any hobbies or anything that you enjoyed growing up as a youngster? GK: I can’t say I had hobbies, but, of course, we played the children’s games with the other kids. Marbles, for example, and I don’t remember that we ever played Keeps, which you couldn’t [indecipherable] if you prevailed in flipping a marble out of a ring. You could keep that marble. RS: Oh! Okay. GK: We were less aggressive, shall we say. But we did play marbles. The girls played jacks, but I don’t think we boys ever were such sissies as to play jacks. RS: Well, that’s interesting. GK: I never had chores. Really, my father favored us as fat as that’s concerned. I probably didn’t pick cotton except just for fun. I say for fun, maybe five minutes. I mean, virtually none. RS: Right. GK: Of course, picking cotton is a terrible chore. RS: A tough job. GK: It’s very hard on the back, but it was a common occupation, shall we say, in the fall harvesting, because cotton was the cash crop in the country. RS: Yes. GK: You raised corn for your cattle and horses and did not sell much if any. I can’t say because I was not really involved in it. But, at any rate, my father never did really have us work in the farm. But in 1930, we moved and began to go to school and lived in Bristow, except that on the weekends, we two boys, George and Jeff [Jefferson Bryan Krumme], had to go with mother because we were young and she didn’t want to leave us in town on weekends, because she wanted to be with dad as much as she could. It was 18 miles in from Tuskegee to Bristow, just as it happened to be 18 miles south to Okemah [Oklahoma]. The reason we, actually, turned to Bristow rather than Okemah when we had to go to school, was that Tuskegee is located just one mile inside Creek County, which was a little bit of a reason to go to Bristow. The honest reason was Deep Fork River flowed south about on the county line, about a mile and a quarter south of Tuskegee, and there was an extensive bottom, probably two or three miles wide that, when it flooded, you could not make it to Okemah. RS: Right. GK: So, really it was impractical although, obviously, in good weather, we, quite frequently, went to visit the family. RS: And how did you travel? In what manner did you travel? GK: By the twenties, cars were quite common. RS: Cars. GK: Yeah. RS: Do you remember you first car your family had? GK: I remember the first one was, one of the first ones was a Dodge Coupe when I was young. However, we had a second car, but I do know that my father in his mail carrying had already, I think in 1917, had, maybe ’18, had bought a Model-T Ford. Half of the cars in the country clear into the mid-twenties were Model-T Fords. Model-T was the most practical. It was really the car of the century. RS: Right, right. GK: But we did own a Dodge Coupe, because I can remember riding in it when I was probably three-years-old or four, when you first remember. But I can’t, I don’t remember what the other car was. RS: Okay, that’s okay. GK: Dad, well, go ahead and ask me the next question. RS: Okay, well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your school life. Where did you attend elementary school? GK: My mother’s family, my mother was one of eight. She was the next to the youngest child. Her father [Jefferson Scott Bryan 1849-1894] had died when she was six-years-old of tuberculosis, the white death. They lived at Republic, Missouri, just out of Springfield. Grandfather, Jefferson Bryan was his name. Mother’s name was Bryan as I told you. Had contracted tuberculosis which was quite common, even, I think, worse in England than here, that I have seen the numbers of famous people who died of tuberculosis in the late 1800’s in England, and it’s astounding. But it was also became common in the United States, and my grandfather, my mother’s father contracted it and was dying. They RS: Wasn’t it very contagious, though? GK: It was quite contagious. RS: I wonder how they contained it within their family without the whole family GK: No one else in the family got it. RS: That’s amazing. GK: Well, I cannot say that. Nobody else in the family…if anybody got it, they survived. RS: Right. GK: Mother never said whether others did pass. But, at any rate, he was obviously dying, and he was a carpenter. He went to Arizona where the dry air was supposed to be RS: Better. GK: Beneficial. He was there only, I’m sure he took the train. He was there only one week, and he had gone to a doctor in a small town near Phoenix [Arizona], and had hired somebody, it was a wagon, to take him into Phoenix, I do not know why, but there was a newspaper article that I have a copy of about the fact that on the way in the, in the wagon, he died. He had been there less than a week. RS: Oh, no. GK: He was buried in the original Phoenix [Arizona] graveyard downtown RS: Wow! GK: Because it was 1895 and it wasn’t a very big town at all. RS: Right. GK: At any rate, nobody was there for the funeral, obviously, it was too far by car. And he never had a gravestone until the late 20’s, when we finally, the families went west and put a gravestone on his grave. But, at any rate, as far as RS: Your schooling, elementary school? GK: All this background is to say that my mother was one of eight girls, pardon me, six girls and two boys. The two boys were both young. One was just older than her, and the other one was just younger. The others concentrated on teaching. Several of them, I won’t say all of them, but several of them taught, including, eventually, my mother, briefly. But my Aunt Nell [Nellie Bryan Woford 1882-1953], her next oldest sister, lived in Okemah [Oklahoma] and, of course, I will say my father and mother both were living near Okemah [Oklahoma]. My mother only [indecipherable], my grandmother, my mother’s mother, had bought on credit, everybody had to buy on credit, an 80 acres only a mile or so from my father’s place was. They met there. At any rate, her sister, a few years older, five or six years older, was teaching at a time that I was to go to school. She was a widow with only one child, a boy, just six months older than I. Charles was his name. Charles B. Woford [Charles Bryan Woford]. My, I’m sure it was at the arrangement of my father, she was hired to teach at Tuskegee’s elementary school, the first four grades. When she came, it was time for Charles to go to school because I was turning six. RS: You went, too, didn’t you? GK: I was still five, but he had turned six and was going to first grade, and she wanted me as his best friend and closest, to go to school at the same time. So, even though I was not quite six yet, I was born in December and school started in September, so I started to school at five, because of Charles being with my teacher, Aunt Nell. Now, my memory is that there were about twelve in our first-grade class. It’s vague. But we sat on benches. I don’t remember that we even had backs. Surely, we did. They were not desks. I do remember that. RS: Right. GK: We may have had backs. But, at any rate, I went to school to her for two years. But the next year was when we moved physically to Bristow. RS: So, in doing research on you, I learned that you graduated from Bristow High School at sixteen. Is that because your Aunt Nell was teaching you really early? GK: Well, it’s a combination. I had two years under Aunt Nell at Tuskegee. When I went to Bristow, the principal of the school, Mrs. Wolfe, I believe, interviewed me for placement. Bristow, at the time, was crowded in schools because the oil boom had started in 1920, and although it had expired by 1930, the schools had adopted, during the meantime, something which was not terribly rare, of having school divided so that you could enter a child who had not yet entered at six in September, you could enter in first grade in January. RS: Oh, okay. Right. GK: So, they had, therefore, in every class had a 1A, which had gone first in September, and then class 1B, which was in, no I’m backward. 1B was, now let me stop and think. RS: A was probably September. GK: Yes, no. September was A and…at any rate. RS: I get what you’re, I get. GK: I can’t remember. All I know is that she said you are ahead of the kids who are going into third grade at September. I’m going to move you a half grade ahead to the ones who came in September, which I think was 3A. RS: Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. GK: The A was there. But, when I was in the fifth grade for the next year, they cut out all the half grades, and they divided the ones who were not quite as fast went back and repeated a half year, and the ones who were ahead went ahead to the next grade. RS: And, you went ahead. GK: And, so I skipped a half grade there, which meant that I really was a graduate of high school at sixteen. RS: That’s amazing. So, I also read that you attended college at Texas A& ; amp ; M as a music major? GK: No, it was Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M. RS: Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M. GK: At Stillwater. RS: Okay. GK: Not Texas, I’ve never been. RS: Okay, so that wasn’t right. Okay. GK: I went there two years. The first year, since I had played in the band, seriously, and fancied that I had some musical talents, I planned on being a band major, drum, pardon me, a band teacher, a band director. RS: Right. GK: So, I was in music school, and it did not take me more than a semester or so to realize that I neither had the talents, I had never learned to play the piano. And that’s an awful nice ability for any musician. RS: Right. GK: And, also, I was not talented enough really interested in being a band director, so the second year, I enrolled as a in pre-law is what they called it. RS: Pre-law. Okay, and this was at Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M? GK: Stillwater. RS: Okay. Alright. And then I also read, did you attend Spartan School of Aeronautics? GK: This would have been in 1941, and they had just passed, sometime the previous period, a draft. And, while I would have not been eligible yet for the draft, we faced draft and were concerned about going to war. And my cousin, Charles, had already quit. He was going to Stillwater, but he only went one year and was going to Spartan School of Aeronautics studying mechanics. He convinced me that if I would enroll in the weather school at Spartan School of Aeronautics, I would be in a vital industry, and I would be free from the draft. I was 18-years-old. I had finished two years when I enrolled in Spartan School of Aeronautics and took a, supposedly, a year training program. It was supposed to be a full year. RS: Right. GK: However, half-way through, this would have been ’41 when I began in probably June or May, at any rate, at the end of school, the war started. They desperately needed people to teach weather to aviation cadets. And I think all twelve of us, or however many there were, were hired. RS: So, you were only 18 whenever you did that? GK: I was hired, I was 19 by the time I was, let’s see was I 19? Yes, I was 19 by the time I was hired to teach aviation cadets, and I did teach at, I was a junior instructor in meteorology, I believe it was, hired by the civil service at $2000 a year. I taught at Perrin Field in Sherman, Texas for the most of the rest of 1942. And, there, Major Bligh (ph) who was head of the ground school said, I’ll try to get you commissioned as a second lieutenant, because you have, certainly, the background, but at the same time, I read a pamphlet that was there that I could apply for a training in the air corp as an enlisted man. Oh, well, first, I left out something. I was still teaching as a civilian when my father told me that his friends at the draft board said George is going to be drafted soon. This was in November or December, and so I, rather than be drafted, Major Bligh (ph) said why don’t you enlist right here. I hate to lose you as a teacher, and you can be assigned. I’ll have the camp commander assign you back to teaching. So, I taught as a private. RS: Wow. GK: Rather than a civilian, and that’s when he said, I can, perhaps, get you a commission, but I had an opportunity to enlist in what was called a pre-meteorology sea program. There were about fifteen liberal arts schools. There were about 250 of us in the one that I attended, which was at Pomona College in Claremont, California. So, anyhow, I went there for a full year, and then, unfortunately, after the end of it, the program, every program was canceled of that sort. They even canceled most cadets because they needed soldiers more than they needed, they did not need that many weather officers. They even knew it, I’m sure. RS: Right. GK: But, at any rate, a few of us out of the 200 of us who were originally in the program, a few of us were sent to the infantry, so I was sent to the infantry in, I think it was March or April of 1943, and I became a machine gun trainee, shall we say, in Company G, 274th Infantry Regiment, 70th Infantry Division. I went overseas with them and was in our first, by the time I went overseas, I was promoted to be squad leader. I had four men under me, a machine gunner and an assistant machine gunner and two ammo bearers who [indecipherable] and a spare barrel for the machine gun, which was the light air-cooled machine gun, not the water cooled. But I was squad leader by the time we got overseas. RS: So, were you like 19 or 20 at this time? GK: I was 20-years-old. RS: Twenty-years-old. Oh, my goodness. GK: Let me see. No, when I went overseas, we went overseas in ’44, and so I would have been 21. RS: Twenty-one, wow! Okay. GK: I would have been almost 22, but at any rate, our first action was against, invading a small regiment of Germans who had infiltrated, single-file and captured a little town in Alsace, northeastern France. We had been there only a week or so, brand new and untrained, unexperienced, I should say. But, at any rate, our battalion happened to be charged to drive them out. There were two hundred and…no 725 of them had invaded and it took three or four days for various entities to drive them out. But my battalion was the last one, and it was successful. Only 225 Germans escaped. The rest were either captured or wounded or killed. But my company was involved in the very last act. I was, I performed an act, at least that I got a sliver star for. RS: A silver star? GK: In that, and several weeks later when I was awarded the silver star, I was also commissioned as Second Lieutenant and became a platoon leader as a Second Lieutenant for the rest of the war. RS: Can I ask you, during that time, being a young man, how did you feel? I can’t imagine being sent over there. How did you feel? GK: Oh, I was one of millions, so I didn’t feel strange at all. It was just part of it. RS: You just did it. You just did it. You didn’t have time think you were scared or worried. GK: There was no point in concern about it. RS: That’s amazing. How long were you active in the military before you returned to Pomona College? GK: From the time I enlisted, I was in 3-1/2 years because when the war was over, since I had, we had arrived there late, we stayed for an extra six or seven months before we could be sent home. So, I came home in April or May of 1946 and applied at Pomona and they were willing to accept me. And since I had so many hours at A& ; amp ; M [Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M], plus a full year of concentrated, I could graduate with a degree in one semester, which I did. I got out in January of ’47. My father had already offered my brother an opportunity to join a company that he had just formed in the previous few years, Krumme Oil Company. He offered me the same opportunity, although my brother had a degree from OU [University of Oklahoma] in petroleum engineering, just at the war ended. He had no experience, but nevertheless, the two of us worked with him first, mainly, as drilling contractors, drilling with cable tools, but eventually, building up a company that had production. RS: Right, so and you also told, so you got your bachelor’s degree from Pomona? GK: No, no, I got my bachelor’s from Pomona. I did not get my masters until I had worked in the field for RS: Okay, for a while. GK: More than 10 years. RS: Oh! Okay! GK: We were living, my wife, Eddy Krumme [Edwynne “Eddy” Rollstone Freeland Krumme 9/10/1923- 5/10/2011] was, we were living in Bristow. Our two boys were still in elementary school, but she wanted to move to Tulsa. She was not satisfied being there. So, I was being a push-over, and we moved to Tulsa, and I was forced for the next 50 years to commute to Bristow every year from Tulsa, but she went to school there. And the kids went to, we had two boys, went to school there in Tulsa. So, I really have lived in Tulsa since 1960. And, that’s when I started going to night school and got my masters of petroleum engineering at TU [University of Tulsa] going at night school for five years, and then when I finished that, I was worn out, so I rested for a year. But then I got interested and wanted a course in geology and got started again and spent the next six or eight years getting a PhD in geology, and I forgot what year I graduated, but nevertheless, I will say this, my dissertation for my PhD was deemed worth enough that the Oklahoma Geological Survey printed it as Bulletin #131. RS: That’s amazing! GK: Well, I was quite pleased, obviously, and always been proud of it. RS: That’s amazing. Well, you mentioned your wife, so let me, if you don’t mind, let me ask you about your first wife. When and where did you meet her? GK: We met when she was, probably, a sophomore and I was, well, just graduated, a freshman. I was, had just graduated as a junior. And, so, we went together all the time I was in high school, and even when I was at A& ; amp ; M [Oklahoma A& ; amp ; M], I came home for her, and I’ve never had another date with any girl. RS: And can you tell me what her full name is, please? GK: Her name is Edwynne Rollstone Krumme. We always called her Eddy. RS: Eddy. Okay, okay. And then I understand that your wife passed away from an illness? GK: She developed dementia in her last decade or two, decade or so, and died after dementia in 2011. RS: Okay, okay. And then can you tell me what your second wife’s name is? GK: Her name was Aldean Thompson Krumme [Grace “Aldean” Thompson Newcomb Krumme 11/19/1928-8/14/2021]. RS: Aldean Thompson Krumme. GK: She was Aldean Thompson and a Bristow girl who actually lived only two doors from us, but she was six years younger than I, and since I left at 16, I was not interested in a girl 10-years-old anyhow, besides, I already had a girlfriend. RS: Right. GK: We became acquainted only, really only, after, oh I would say, in the mid oughts, because her husband. No! We had contact, I won’t say became acquainted. We had contact because her husband was a chief geologist for Amaron Petroleum, and is in one of my classes. RS: Okay. GK: Night classes of petroleum engineering, and he had asked Aldean, do you know anybody from Bristow named George Krumme? And, of course, she did. But, at any rate, we did not really become acquainted until several decades, forty years later. RS: Okay, can you tell me how many children you have and what their names are, please? GK: Two sons. Eddy and I had David in 1948, and David William Krumme [2/1/1948-2/15/2013], and Robert Bryan Krumme in 1950. RS: Okay. GK: May 27th. RS: Okay. Can you tell me, do you have grandchildren? GK: I have four grandchildren, two living in, David’s two children live in Estes Park, Colorado, or the area and have no children. Robert’s two children, a boy and a girl, live with, also all three of them live in the south part of Jenks [Oklahoma], live in Jenks. RS: Okay. GK: Those two children, Jay, his name is John, but is called Jay, has a boy and a girl. And Carolyn has two daughters, so both families are close. RS: Okay, and then you had mentioned to me that you spent your entire career in the oil business. Was that just with family business with Krumme Oil? GK: Krumme Oil Company, yes. RS: Okay, okay. Well, now that we have a little background on you, I would like to talk to you a little bit about your involvement with Community Bank. I know this is the centennial year for them and you’ve been an integral part of the bank. What is your involvement with Community Bank? Can you tell us how you’re involved with them? GK: Well, my father being at Tuskegee and being, shall we say, mayor of Tuskegee, of course, with just a half a dozen houses, there was no formation. But, nevertheless, he was recognized as being a leader in the country, and since it was only eighteen miles from Bristow, for whatever reason, they invited him to be a member of the board when, at the same year that we bought the house in Bristow, so he became a member of the board in 1930. RS: Of Community Bank? GK: Even though he had owned no interest in it beyond just qualifying shares. RS: Okay. GK: And he stayed on the board because he started a business in 1936, and, eventually, quit the Tuskegee operation. For several years, he really operated out of Bristow and hired somebody to run the Tuskegee operation. He founded Krumme Truck and Implement Agency selling international trucks and McCormick-Deering farm implements for several years. But, as farming went out, he, eventually, got the Oldsmobile automobile agency, and, briefly, the Cadillac. Then, in 1940, the Chamber of Commerce wanted to replace cotton, because cotton was going out completely as a cash crop, and they enticed him to build, move a peanut shelling operation. RS: Okay. GK: He bought an expiring one that was in southern Oklahoma and built a peanut operation shelling. And my sister’s husband, Rachel’s husband, managed it, so he was involved in numerous things while this peanut operation was still going on is when he began going into the oil business. And, so, he was involved in numerous things, and that’s why, he had begun to buy operate, oil operate oil properties in ’42 or three or four. I don’t remember when. So, by the we came, Harlan and I came back, Harlan came back in ’46. I came back in ’47. He already had the nucleus of an oil business. RS: Right. GK: Now that’s the history that covers several things, I think. RS: Right. And, so, basically it was because of your dad that you got into the Community Bank? GK: And, when dad died in ’75, Harlan and I, since we were well-known businessmen, alternated being on the board. RS: Oh, okay. GK: Only about three years after dad died, the Foster brothers wanted to sell the bank, and there were several of us on the board who were children, sons of previous board members. Roger Collins was on the board. David Loeffler [10/20/1920-8/10/1986] was on the board. And Tom McAdams [4/6/1919-3/6/1991], all four of our fathers, had been on the board. And we decided to buy the bank. I think the year was 1978 is my guess. RS: Okay. GK: At any rate, we did join together and buy the banks. And without going into all the details, the subsequent presidents of the bank that we hired were aggressive enough that we bought two banks. One at Anadarko [Oklahoma] and one at Hugo [Oklahoma], so we had the ownership of three banks. One of the banks, the one at Anadarko had a serious loss, and we did have problems working the banks, but Community Bank, originally, of course, was Community State. It was formed in 1924 from a bankruptcy of a previous bank, First State Bank in ’24, and the city put together enough investors, local investors in Bristow, that it was called Community State Bank. All of those, eventually, sold out to a single person later, and it was, eventually, owned by the Foster brothers. RS: Well, can I ask, I’m glad you talked about that, because whenever I was doing research, I know that I read about…it was kind of hard to understand, and I was hoping you could clarify it for me. There was First State Bank, but then was there a Bristow National Bank? GK: Only a few months before First State Bank went under, it had merged, it had absorbed Bristow National Bank. RS: Oh, okay. GK: Bristow, at that time, had four banks, First National and American National at that time, at the intersection of Seventh Street. The other two banks, First State, was also at that corner in the southeast corner of that, so there were three banks at Seventh and Main. Bristow National was where Community is now, right on the corner, though. RS: Okay. GK: And it had a nice building. And when First State bought Bristow National, they elected to move to Bristow National’s location. But they did not last six months before they went under. The farm economy throughout the 20’s had suffered low prices and many, many banks, particularly in the south and Midwest, small country banks, went under, and so First National was not unique, nor Bristow National. It was, undoubtedly, due to the weak farm economy. But, as I say, what was the formation of Community Bank was quite unusual for the city itself to raise enough investors to justify buying the bank. And it did it as quite successful. It was a number of years before it was, eventually, bought by one of the owners instead of all of them. It, eventually, was owned by the two Foster brothers, and Arthur Foster [12/15/1912-7/22/1998] was running the bank when we bought it. RS: So, what lessons were learned from the other banks failures which lead to the successful venture of Community State Bank, would you say? GK: It was not only the good management of the bank, but also the bank, Community Bank was formed in 1924 and the Depression of 1929, which was October, generally, recognized as the beginning of the Depression, but for the next few years, bank failures were nationwide, actually, worldwide, because of the Great Depression was spread to Europe, as well as, the United States. Many banks went under. I suspect, that American National might have been in danger, although it never went under, but at that time, Albert C. Kelly [Albert Charles Kelly 12/28/1922-1/3/1977], old Albert, ended up owning virtually all of American National, because Albert’s farm had been, oil had been discovered and there were twelve wells, at least, drilled on Albert’s land. His son, young Albert, told me that his father told him that his income was $1000 a day. So, he had resources enough, so that my guess is, that he bought a troubled bank but had enough resources to tough it out, because American National did not go over. RS: To keep it going. GK: And Community State was able on its own to survive because, apparently, they were probably more cautious, shall we say, in their lending. At least, they were never threatened with receivership. Of course, in ’33, 1933 when President Roosevelt declared a bank holiday nationwide, many governors had declared bank holidays in ’33 because things got so desperate, and it became universal, shall we say, and even Governor Murray had declared bank holiday before the national holiday. But President Roosevelt declared a national holiday, and began investigating all the banks to determine which one could survive, and after only a few weeks, both banks in Bristow were cleared and opened back from a holiday. In the meantime, there was no bank available in Bristow, and the Chamber of Commerce, made what was called scrip, which was used in place of money RS: I read about that. GK: Which was actually paper money that was guaranteed by the Chamber of Commerce, and for a couple of weeks, it was circulated as money to be used as money because the banks were not available. RS: I, actually, read about that. So, is there an actual story of how Community Bank was named? GK: Only because the community went together. It was a community effort. RS: Okay, okay. And, so, it was funded by multiple GK: Local investors. RS: Okay, okay. Well, I read that the Bristow News Record sang the bank’s praises by reporting, and I quote, “The record is one that officials can justly be proud of as it is without parallel in the history of banking in this state. Community State Bank, a community project formed in the dark days when Bristow citizens had visions of losing their entire savings, is another success added to the list of a successful community.” So, what do you feel has made Community Bank successful all these years? GK: Apparently, good management and being careful about making loans. Banks go under because of failed loans. It’s obvious, a long throughout the years, the management of Community Bank has been adequate enough so that they are never in any dangers, and certainly, have not been since I’ve been familiar with the bank. RS: Right. Well, I was going to ask how you thought, like a new bank survived the Great Depression, but I’m guessing it’s kind of the same answer that they were cautious in their loans and investments. GK: Yes, I would say that. RS: Okay. And if the Great Depression wasn’t hard enough, that also transitioned into the Dust Bowl time period. What was life like for families and businesses during that time period of the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl era? GK: Bristow claimed to have about 12,000 at one time. But by the time the Depression was over, it was down to about 3,000 or so. Now, I’m not sure about that. It might have been 4,000, but at any rate, it has maintained about 4,000 ever since. The Depression caused empty houses throughout Bristow. As a matter of fact, the police department threatened many kids who would go in an empty home and randomly graffiti throughout, and it was a real problem you find in the newspapers, which I have read that so many empty homes here in town. People went to California. RS: Okay. GK: And, of course, we’ve rebuilt as far as the real estate is concerned. And, also, the schools, school children were coming, particularly the farm children, because they suffered even more than in Bristow city. RS: Right. GK: Came to school barefoot, and I know the rotary club, at least one year, bought 200 pairs for kids, not just farm kids, you understand. RS: Oh, wow! GK: Because, they actually had no shoes. RS: No shoes. GK: So, they could attend school. And the rotary, the Edison School, elementary school created a cafeteria, because kids didn’t enough money, pardon me, enough food at school, at home, but they did charge for those could afford it, 10 cents per lunch. And it was a lunch. The rotary [indecipherable] created at Washington Elementary School in the southeast part of town, they ran the cafeteria there and, likewise, because food was so scarce for the school children. RS: So scarce. GK: So, the Depression really did affect Bristow like it affected the entire country. RS: Yeah, what year did you take an active role with Community Bank, and can you tell us how that opportunity presented itself? GK: I think it was in 1978, well, no my first was because my father died in ’75, and I suspect that Robert, pardon me, I suspect that my older brother Harlan was put on the board first as the older brother, and I normally went on there in 1976 or seven or something like that. RS: Okay. GK: But it was due to my father’s death that I made the first associations. RS: So, what GK: Although, we had dealt with Community Bank for decades. RS: Right, right. What vision or goals did you have for the bank, and do you feel they have come to fruition? GK: Well, for it to be successful and continue to be a guiding part of Bristow, and I think it has. It has grown. Originally, Community, historically, was only about two thirds as big as American National Bank, because after 19, let’s see, the late 20’s there were only two banks. When Community Bank was formed, that made three banks, because two banks went under to make Community. RS: Right. GK: First National went under only four years later, so from that time on, there was only American National and Community State Bank. RS: When did Community lose the State in the name? GK: I think that occurred in about 1979. RS: And do you know the reason for that? GK: Yes. The president came, the new president that we had to hire because, obviously, the Foster’s had been president before, said it’s an awkward name to add state. Now, the original state law was that you had to have the word, if you were a state bank, you HAD to say that you were a state bank. And if you were a national bank, you had to say you were a national bank. That law was rescinded sometime far before that. I don’t actually know when, but that’s when the president who had just come said, there’s no reason to be named Community State Bank. And, more or less, dropped the name State. And, so we quite quickly, did. And I’m going to guess that was ’79. RS: Okay. How did your involvement with the bank change through the years, and, if any, what impact do you feel it’s had on your life? GK: Well, it’s, I will only say that my contact, aside from as a customer of the bank, but as a director, and while the group of us who had bought the bank stayed together until, gradually, the others sold. Eventually, my brother, Harlan and I ended up owning all the shares. And then in the mid 90’s, we divided our various assets, as far as the oil business was concerned and the banks, and Tom McAdams and I, first, I guess, owned most of it because the others had sold, and eventually, my son, Robert, began to manage the bank for Tom and me. He had experience. He has an MBA from Harvard, as a matter of fact, but anyhow, he came, although his previous business experience of several decades had not been either in the oil production nor in banking. With a background, he was able to adjust quickly. And he began to manage the banks, not as president, but just as general managing, overseeing. Eventually, as we had a holding company to operate the banks that we had bought, he became CEO of the holding company and really, I would say, the Krumme family has a very large ownership in, pardon me, in Sooner Southwest Bankshares, Inc., which owns the various banks that they have bought since then. Currently, Southwest, pardon me, Oklahoma Southwestern owns four banks. One in Bristow. One in Hugo. One in Heavener and on in Tulsa beginning a couple of years ago. RS: Okay, well, do you recall any particular very high or low times that you had with the bank that you can share with us? GK: Yes! The 80’s were hard for most banks because of the oil business had failures, and it affected Bristow because it had several customers who were in the oil business. RS: Right. GK: So, those were difficult days. And, of course, in ’08 there was a general recession, however, the bank was strong enough that, I don’t really think the bank had serious troubles in ’08, nor has it had since. RS: Right, right. Do you have a favorite memory regarding yourself and the bank that you would like to share, or maybe even like your earliest memory of the bank? GK: I really can’t say that I do, no. RS: You probably have a lot memories, don’t ya? GK: I do have a lot of memories, and it’s been a pleasant association. RS: So, has Community Bank helped with significant enhancements in Bristow, and if so, what are you most proud of? So, for instance, say like, city improvements, community programs, Route 66 development, like what are you most proud of that the bank has done? GK: Both banks in Bristow have been very civic-minded. RS: Okay. GK: I will say, and participated in MANY activities, and I’m very proud of the fact that Community has continued to do so. And I will say that one symptom of the appreciation that the bank, Community Bank has observed is that it has grown so that it is, almost, I don’t know whether it’s larger than the American National [Spirit Bank] or still slightly smaller, but it has grown to the point where it is an equal competitor rather than being the smaller of the two banks, which is a sign of both good management, but also of service to the community. RS: Well, I would agree with that. How does Community Bank manage to keep its institution local and keep it from being bought out or merged with other financial institutions? GK: That, actually, is a decision made by management of Sooner Southwest. And I’ve said the wrong word. Sooner Southwest is the name of the holding company, and I apologize for my poor memory. RS: That’s okay. No, that’s okay! GK: At any rate, Robert and others in management position have decided to maintain the banks as independent entities. All four banks owned by the holding company are independent. Whereas, most holding companies, rather, merge the banks under a common name, which is what, of course, American National did at the time, and had to adapt the name Spirit, because too many towns had American National Bank. And it could well be that Sooner Southwest will have to do the same thing. RS: So, what sets Community Bank apart from other banks, and how does that benefit the community? GK: Oh, I’m not sure that it sets it all that much apart. But I will say that I’m happy that it has a good record decades. RS: Well, I would like to say, I’m a customer of Community Bank, and I think it sets apart because you feel very welcomed. It’s a personal experience. You kind of get the red-carpet treatment when you go in, and other banks aren’t like that. GK: It’s the people who are running it. RS: Yes sir, yes sir. GK: They are service-minded and they’re friendly, and also, competent, so. RS: Yes, and genuinely friendly. GK: Well, I’m happy to have you say that, because that has been my observation, too. RS: Yes. GK: Welcoming to everybody. RS: Yes, you have wonderful employees there. Okay, well let’s talk about the future of Community Bank. This might be a hard one. Where do you see it in the next 100 years? GK: I have no idea about what will happen to anything in the next 100 years, but all I can do is anticipate that they will continue to be successful, and certainly, I hope so. RS: Continued success. I think so, too. Well, shifting from bank history, I’d like to ask you a couple of fun questions, and we are about to wrap this up, okay? What would you consider to be the most important invention during your life time? GK: Well, all I can say the thing that probably has turned the world upside down more than anything else, is electronics. The latest thing, which in communications and all that. Of course, both airplanes and cars had come in by the time that I was born. Radio was just really prospering when I was born. Bristow had one of the first radio stations in Oklahoma, which became, yes, which became KVOO and is now in Tulsa as a TV station. But radio was brand new but only when I was a child. Of course, TV came in, subsequently, and all of those had a great change, but I think the electronics has been more revolutionary than any of the others. RS: I would agree. I feel like someone of your age has seen the whole entire gamut of change in the time period. So, as someone that’s, you’re 101-years-old, correct? GK: Yes. RS: Okay, so as someone that’s 101, what type of wisdom would you like to share with us of your secret to a long and healthy life? GK: Oh. RS: Tell us your secrets! GK: I don’t really know that I have, would presume to give a secret. All I can say is, that I have tried to exhibit integrity, honesty and, I will say, continued attention to work. I believe I can say that. At any rate RS: You mean like having a purpose with your work? GK: Well, of course, really that’s a little presumptuous to say. I better leave it there to say without trying to express what it takes to be successful. I have been successful, but I’ll also say, that for everybody who has, luck plays some part. Being at the right place at the right time. RS: Right. GK: And being fortunate enough to make the right decisions. A lot of it is luck, but of course, that’s built on both hard work and integrity. RS: I agree with that. GK: And some reasonable amount of intelligence, too. RS: Right, right. So, just finally, I just want to know if you have any other wisdom you would like to share with us or anything that you feel that we haven’t covered today? Is there anything else you would like to share? GK: I think I’ve expressed more than I really needed to. RS: It’s been a wonderful interview. GK: Told a little more than I needed to, I realize. RS: No! Well, I just want to tell you thank you for sharing your time with us today. We really appreciate it. This will be an important part of our ongoing oral history, and then, obviously, for Community Bank as well, so we really appreciate you, Mr. Krumme. GK: Well, thank you very much. RS: Okay, thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0057_George_Krumme.xml OHP-0057_George_Krumme.xml
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George Krumme
Description
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Mr. Krumme shares about his life as a youngster growing up and going to school in the Okemah, Tuskegee and Bristow area. He talks about attending college and joining the service, as well as, returning home to start his career at Krumme Oil Company. He shares about his married and family life and talks, extensively, about his history with Community Bank and what his hopes are for the future of Community Bank.
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OHP-0057
Date
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2024/05/20
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audio
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0145583b6f8d1e622dd685955133560c
Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gerald Guy Henshaw
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml
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5.4 June 30, 2021 OHP-2021-17 Gerald Henshaw OHP-2021-17 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Gerald Guy Henshaw Georgia Smith mp3 1:|77(2)|117(3)|188(7)|220(2)|260(2)|305(11)|341(12)|386(1)|441(4)|484(8)|546(2)|583(6)|643(9)|697(5)|742(5)|770(6)|824(2)|880(5)|938(2)|967(12)|1010(2)|1039(16)|1076(9)|1115(2)|1146(4)|1184(8)|1250(2)|1282(7)|1333(2)|1369(1)|1409(5)|1443(3)|1496(4)|1532(4)|1570(1)|1624(6)|1662(8)|1676(4)|1721(6)|1765(13)|1793(12)|1816(5)|1863(16)|1894(15)|1919(5)|1941(8)|1956(13)|1983(3)|2023(4)|2045(2)|2069(12) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-17 Henshaw, Gerald.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. Today is June 30th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Gerald Henshaw and his friend Jim hurt, who I’ve just interviewed. And he’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow and Jim might chime in if he has any memories as we go along. So Gerald could you give me your full name? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: Okay, and Jim could you give me your full name again? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt GS: Thank you. Okay Gerald what was your name at birth? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw Bonita Childress ; Bristow Historical Society ; Farmer ; Franklin A. Henshaw ; Franklin S. Henshaw ; Georgia Smith ; Gerald Henshaw ; Helen Henshaw ; Irene Rush ; Jim Hurt ; Norma Hallman ; Oil Worker https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228596411/franklin-abile-henshaw Franklin A. Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766193/rosa-irene-henshaw Irene Rush Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228570988/naomi-ann-henshaw Naomi Ann Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766187/franklin-s-henshaw Franklin S. Henshaw 334 Early Childhood GS: Okay, tell me about what life was like at home when you were growing up? GH: At home, let’s see, I had my brothers- let’s see, two of my brothers was living there and of course we was in fights all the time, they was fightin’ me all the time. GS: Yeah GH: And then, course the girls- I was the king [indecipherable] of the girls. You know, I keep charge of them and, and so we kinda just- we’s kinda really on our own basically cause dad worked nights, and we were kinda. Then well and I’ll tell ya about another story about we had lighting [Indecipherable] house we lived in. First all, we had corduroy lights. GS: Okay GH: Had [indecipherable] by the corduroy lights and then we got a- when dad come in put gas lights in, we had gas line go across the property 1950 ; Midwest City ; Oklahoma Tire and Supply ; Rory Rogers ; Tommy Earl Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26833064/tommy-earl-henshaw Tommy Earl Henshaw 757 School Life GS: Oh goodness, where did you first attend school Gerald? GH: Where? GS: Uh-huh GS: First grade I was in Edison, and then they decided well [Indecipherable] anyone come in a ride the bus had to go over to Washington. GS: Okay GH: So we went over to Washington and stayed there, so I guess, what, sixth grade maybe? GS: Yes GH: And then came back to the middle school Bristow High School ; Edison ; FFA ; Fusco ; grade school ; jalopy ; junior high ; List Motors ; Mr. Pow ; Mrs. List ; School ; Washington ; Wendell List https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204414/wendell-oliver-list Wendell List https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204411/mignon-list Mignon List 1155 Church Life GS: Yeah. Okay and now I know that Jim went to a church as a child, did you go to church as a child? GH: My mother I understand was really a stout Christian, and she’d took us to church every day. Dad didn’t go, but, but then I was baptized at the first Baptist church here in Bristow. GS: Okay, do you remember who your pastor was? GH: Day GS: Day? JH: Vernon Day (ph) GH: Vernon day, yeah. Yeah he was the pastor and I really remember going home and telling dad that I’d got baptized that day, and I’ll tell ya a little story about him too, he was [Indecipherable] because I was, I still remember today, of course we always would. But Whenever my mother passed away, we had these do gooders that’d come in from Church ; First Baptist Church ; Vernon Day 1302 Entertainment and Medical/Dental Care GS: Can you tell me anything about the entertainment that we had in Bristow? GH: Entertainment, oh yeah we had three, two- two shows GS: Okay GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: And one drive in theater out at the— GS: Pirate drive in GH: Pirate drive in, take my little 39’ ford and fold out seat. The back of it was welded, the trunk was welded shut, it had this seat to get into— you had to raise the seat to get in the back of— you had to pile in the back of there, and close the seat down. Drive to the window Amphitheater ; Carnivals ; Creek County Fair ; Crest Toothpaste ; Dental School ; Doctor ; Doctor King ; Drive-in theater ; Entertainment ; Oklahoma City ; Parades ; Peggy Durham ; Pirate Drive-In ; polio ; Rodeos ; Silver Plunge ; Skating Rink http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/28659 Pirate Drive-In 1722 Jobs, Businesses, and Education GS: As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? GH: Old GS: Amen GH: Now I’m old. [Indecipherable] I guess I wanted to be a cowboy GS: A cowboy? GH: [Inaudible] I always wanted to be [Inaudible] and stuff GS: Right GH: Silver [Inaudible] GS: Very romanticized image of the cowboy GH: Right GS: What was your first job other than farm? Allstate ; American Lines ; Bristow Community Bank ; Contract Administration ; Contract Administrator ; cowboy ; DLA ; Hamburger King ; Hi-Cafe ; J& ; J Cafe ; John Sukabody ; JR Childress ; Locker Plant ; mechanic ; Moon Shop ; Oklahoma Tires Supply ; Okmulgee, Ok ; OSU Okmulgee ; OSUIT ; Palace Drug ; Social Degree ; State Farm 2224 Military Service GS: Yes, yup, yeah you never can predict them a lot of times. So what branch of the service were you in? GH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force? And what was your— what were your duties there? GH: My duties in the air force I’ll tell ya that story. I went in and [Indecipherable] and I were friend, we lived out in [Indecipherable] county. Anyway, we went in, the recruiter says “Okay you boys can stay together. While you were in the service, we decided that you boys are really good”. Well we went- we worked together one night in base ; we went into basic training, got through with that. 8th Air force police force, 8th Air force police. We got wiped out in ol’ Korea. So this whole platoon went into the air police except one. It was [Indecipherable]. Him and ol’ [Indecipherable]. GS: Wouldn’t you know Air Force ; Altus ; Canine School ; Korea ; Korean War 2447 Bootleggers and Prohibition GS: Yup, Did I miss something Jim? JH: Yeah, the bootleggers GS: Oh the bootleggers! We mentioned them but we didn’t go any further! Tell me about the bootleggers, one of ya. GH: Well the bootleggers- GS: Well you talked about buying the white lightening and then feeling guilty about spending the buck on it GH: Yeah, well it wasn’t my dollar, it was my dad’s dollar. GS: Yeah JH: No Frank Junie (ph) lived down the road from me, and everybody knew he was a bootlegger, and his daughter married a bootlegger whose name was Smith who lived across from J& ; J Café upstairs. But anyway, Frank had a boat with a cover over it and he’d go to Missouri and pick it up and come back so— otherwise you drove one of these big cars and loaded it down the back end the highway patrol would stop you and then take all your merchandise Bootleggers ; Frank Junie ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jonny Baker ; liquor ; Prohibition ; Texco Cafe ; White Lightening 2530 Wheat Harvest and Adult Life GH: I forgot to tell you about wheat harvest GS: Tell me about that wheat harvest GH: Wheat harvest, yeah we went to wheat harvest up in Kansas GS: Yes GH: And I drove the truck up there GS: Uh-huh GH: To wheat harvest. [Indecipherable] International truck GS: Yes GH: Stick, shift gears GS: Uh-huh Wheat ; Wheat Harvest 2736 Closing Thoughts and Hamburger King GS: Well yes I would too. That just wasn’t right at all! I’m gonna ask you the same question I asked Jim. As you see it now, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? GH: Biggest problem that I can [Indecipherable] is selfishness GS: Yeah GH: People who haven’t had to work, are not working, they think the big government is gonna take care of them for the rest of their lives. Talking about giving them free college, and free this free that, which I think is wrong and way to turn that around is to give a persona a hand up instead of a hand out. GS: Give them an incentive GH: Give them something [Indecipherable] teach them out to fish and all that stuff GS: Exactly Bob Wills ; Bristow Historical Society ; BristowHistoricalSociety.org ; Donald Crawford ; Golden Eagle Cafe ; Hamburger King ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jonny Lee Wills ; Kellyville ; Lucian Tiger ; Luke Fry ; Route 66 https://www.bristowhistory.org/ Bristow Historical Society In this 2021 interview, Gerald Henshaw shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Jim Hurt. He discusses life on a farm, numerous jobs, and together Gerald and Jim share stories from their young adult lives. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Gerald Henshaw (GH) Other Persons: Jim Hurt (JH) Date of Interview: June 30, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. Today is June 30th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Gerald Henshaw and his friend Jim hurt, who I' ; ve just interviewed. And he' ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow and Jim might chime in if he has any memories as we go along. So Gerald could you give me your full name? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: Okay, and Jim could you give me your full name again? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt GS: Thank you. Okay Gerald what was your name at birth?GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: And when were you born? GH: October 11, 1936 GS: Okay, and were you born here in Bristow? GH: North of Bristow GS: North of Bristow, in a house? GH: In a house GS: Were you delivered by a doctor or midwife? GH: Doctor. My granddad was the first medical doctor here in Bristow, Oklahoma JH: I didn' ; t know that GS: I didn' ; t know that, what was his name? GH: Franklin, Franklin A. Henshaw GH: Franklin A. Henshaw, first doctor here in Bristow GH: Yes, he was the first medical doctor here in Bristow GS: About what year was that? GH: Oh goodness that had to have been, oh I don' ; t know, about 30' ; s? GS: Was that, okay it was, we were a state GH: Yeah, yes GS: Yeah, okay. So your grandfather delivered you? GH: Yes GS: Oh, that' ; s a cool story GH: Right GS: What were your parents' ; names? We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. GH: My mother' ; s name was Irene Rush, Rush Thompsons note: Franklin Abile Henshaw (1857 -- 1954) -- Find A Grave MemorialThompsons note: Rosa Irene Rush Henshaw (1899 -- 1942) -- Find A Grave MemorialGS: Okay GH: And dads name was Franklin S. Henshaw. GS: Okay GH: And they, she was out of Kansas. She lived in Kansas, and they got married in Kansas [Indecipherable] questions. GS: Okay GH: They were married in Kansas then came here to, I guess start a family, start a life [Indecipherable] GS: Do you know what brought them to Bristow? GH: I have no idea. GS: Okay. GH: Probably a wagon (Laughter) GS: I bet it was! Do you know about approximately the year they were married? GH: No, I don' ; t GS: That' ; s okay, that' ; s okay GH: I' ; ve got that information, well I' ; ve got that information JH: Who said they were married GS: Right, right GS: How many children did you have? GH: We had eleven GS: Did your parents have? GH: Parents had eleven. GS: Eleven! GH: Eleven children GS: And where did you fall in that rank? Thompsons note: Franklin S. Henshaw (1889 -- 1959) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: I was the sixth one, sixth born GS: Oh my goodness, you were smack dab in the middle. GH: Just about, I have a lot of older sisters and four younger sisters GS: Okay, are any of them still living? GH: Four girls are living GS: Oh GH: You had one died in birth, and she' ; s buried out here in Bristow GS: Okay GH: Yeah, they' ; re all still here. Well, in fact, there' ; s three of- two of them live here in Bristow. One lives in Midwest city, one lives over in hu- not Hugo, but over east of here. GS: Okay what are the name of the ones here in Bristow? GH: Norma Hallman GS: Okay GH: You probably know her, and then Bonita Childress GS: Okay JH: Oh yeah GS: What did your father do for a living?GH: He was an oil worker and a farmer GS: An oil worker and a farmer. GH: What happened to him was he was in an oil rig and it blew up with him. And it messed his whole leg up, he lost- he didn' ; t lose the leg but he lost a lot of the muscle in the leg. GS: Yes GH: And so the only people that got any money out of that was the attorney. And so we, then went and got a farm out north of here and started farming. GS: Probably wasn' ; t easy farming with one leg. Thompson note: Naomi Ann Henshaw (1932 -- 1934) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: No, he- yeah he knew it. He didn' ; t have a, you know, just, it wasn' ; t a- he just didn' ; t have any muscle in the leg. GS: I see GH: He could walk, but he couldn' ; t just stay very long at a time, ya know. GS: Right, yeah. I' ; m sure all the kids helped with the farm of course too. GH: Oh yes, yeah. Well my brother, oldest brother, he had a dairy- he brought a dairy out there GS: Okay GH: And I remember having to get up in the morning and milk these cows by hand, and before I went to school. And I' ; d drink hot milk with my cereal before going to school. And then later on we got a little stance thing that you put over the back of cows and had to sit on it, and then it was called a class B farm, which you didn' ; t have to have cement floors ; you could have a dirt floor in this kind of a farm. GS: Okay GH: So, but then we got out of that business because he couldn' ; t-- he couldn' ; t run it and I couldn' ; t help him after. GS: Oh GH: So we got out of that, and we just raised hay and stuff like that after that. And cattle, we had some cattle. GS: Sure, yeah. What about your mother, what did she do? GH: She' ; s a homemaker GS: Sure GH: As far as I know, she died about 42' ; maybe. GS: So how old were you when she passed away?GH: I was probably about, well I was born in 36' ; so I was probably about six GS: Aww GH: Six years old yeah. GS: That' ; s sad. GH: My youngest sisters born pretty close to the time she passed away. GS: Wow GH: Yeah GS: She didn' ; t die in child birth GH: No, it wasn' ; t child birth. I don' ; t know what she died of really, I don' ; t know. GS: Okay, are you married Gerald? GH: Yes. GS: Okay and your spouse' ; s name? GH: Helen Henshaw GS: Helen GH: Parick Henshaw GS: And is this the same spouse you' ; ve had your entire life? GH: Yeah, she' ; s put up with me all sixty-something years. GS: Sixty-something years, that' ; s wonderful. GH: Yeah GS: How many children do you have? GH: I have two children, one daughter and a son. Daughter has two children, a son and a daughter, and I have a great grandchild GS: Wonderful GH: Yeah GS: Wonderful, you' ; re blessed GH: Yes GS: Okay, tell me about what life was like at home when you were growing up? GH: At home, let' ; s see, I had my brothers- let' ; s see, two of my brothers was living there and of course we was in fights all the time, they was fightin' ; me all the time. GS: Yeah GH: And then, course the girls- I was the king [indecipherable] of the girls. You know, I keep charge of them and, and so we kinda just- we' ; s kinda really on our own basically cause dad worked nights, and we were kinda. Then well and I' ; ll tell ya about another story about we had lighting [Indecipherable] house we lived in. First all, we had corduroy lights. GS: Okay GH: Had [indecipherable] by the corduroy lights and then we got a- when dad come in put gas lights in, we had gas line go across the property GS: Right GH: So was able to tap into that GS: About what year do you think you got gas? GH: I know it' ; s kinda early on. I would say probably 36' ; , thirty- GS: Mid thirties GH: we had probably late thirties maybe. GS: Late thirties GH: Yeah GS: Okay, go ahead. GH: Because then-- but he would just run the gas line right along the ceiling and around and then drop a light off of that. [Indecipherable] line did you know (Laughter) GH: And so, but then after that, he hooked up a generator, and it had a washing machine motor on the-- back in washing days then, we had to wash it by hand. Anyway, took one of them motors and took it out there in the little building and put it on a generator and then we got lights. Of course, you had to go out there and start the generator-- start that motor up to get a lights. GS: Oh, it was electricity then? GH: Right, yeah, after that. JH: Ohhh GH: Yeah. And then we didn' ; t have running water, we had to shower-- we had a big, like a big building-- not a building, but a big tub type of thing, it wasn' ; t a tub anyway JH: Tank? GH: Tank, yeah. GS: Okay GH: And, on top of this building you' ; d go out there and take a shower. GS: And you had to leave the house to go take a shower? GH: Yeah to take a shower, had to leave the house to go to use the bathroom. GS: Okay GH: Oh yeah, we' ; d all that stuff GS: Oh okay, you had an outhouse, yeah. GH: Yeah, had to- two holer. Had a two holer, we' ; s a [Indecipherable] GS: Oh I bet JH: They refer to that as the good ol' ; days (Laughter) GH: Yeah, but anyway. We had a good time, I had a horse, horses to ride. We used the horses to plow the fields and all that kind of things. GS: Did you have to work most of the time or did you get time to have fun? GH: I worked all the time. I worked all the time, yeah. Yeah, took-- only time we had fun was when there somebody come out there and get lost and we could make fun of em' ; (Laughter) GS: Now where is it you lived again? GH: I lived out three miles north of Bristow. GS: On 48 or 66? GH: No on 66, right off of 66. GS: Oh okay GH: It' ; s about, I don' ; t know what the name of that road is, do you know where that cemetery is out there that- GS: Yes GH: You take that road right north of that cemetery and take it around. GS: Okay GH: We lived out there GS: Okay GH: Yeah GS: Did you have any toys as a child? GH: Toys? Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah- had a horse. (Laughter) JH: Stick GH: Yeah, a stick horse. Oh but, I was one-- one Christmas I wanted a chaps, so I could be a good cowboy GS: Oh GH: Dad got me a little chaps and a gun holder and two guns, I still got the guns by the way. GS: Oh how neat! JH: Oh cool! GH: And Rory Rogers (ph) guns, so I was king of the [Indecipherable] whenever I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Now were you older than your sisters? GH: I was older than four of them GS: That' ; s what I was thinking GH: And I had one older sister, yeah. GS: So that' ; s why you were the king [Indecipherable]. GH: Yeah that' ; s right, yeah I was the only boy there, ya know JH: (Laughter) GS: So did the sisters do a lot of the cooking? GH: Well, I' ; ll tell ya about that. We cooked, no they didn' ; t much cook. We had a black lady one time GS: Uh-huh GH: That came and she cooked for us meals. And my younger sister, she says " ; I' ; m not gonna eat that, d' ; you see them black hands go in that" ; GS: Aww JH: (Laughter) GH: And so she, my dad cooked most all the meals, yeah, when I was in school and all that. [Indecipherable] My brother would pick us up from school and take us back out to the house and he' ; d have a bowl of soup or stew or something like that fixed for us. GS: Was he a pretty good cook? GH: He was a good cook. GS: Oh okay JH: Which one? GH: My dad. JH: Oh I thought you said your brother. GH: No, Tommy. He worked at Oklahoma tire and supply. GS: Okay GH: For the Griffins JH: Oh Tommy, I remember Tommy. GS: Yes GH: Yeah GS: Virgil (ph) and Earl? GH: No, Virgil and- no it' ; s not here. No it' ; s not GS: That' ; s okay. GH: Virgil Earl GS: Earl, okay. JH: Virgil Earl. GS: I think Earl was Virgil' ; s wife. GH: Yes, Earl was his name- Earl Virgil-- in fact that' ; s my doctor in Midwest city, is the nephew of those guys. GS: Oh! Well that' ; s a small world! Thompsons note: Tommy Earl Henshaw Sr. (1929 -- 2007) -- Find A Grave MemorialJH: Wow GH: Anyway GS: Yeah. Okay so, did you grow most of your own food, or did you come into town to buy it? GH: Well, some of both. We grew a lot of it, we ate what was on the field. GS: And did you can? GH: No we didn' ; t can much, no. When we' ; d have mom, but of course wasn' ; t around. GS: Right GH: But no we didn' ; t can much. GS: Probably a bit much to try the canning. GH: Yeah GS: What about livestock? Did you do your own butchering? GH: Yes, butchered the hogs in the wintertime. Put em' ; in a smoke house, keep them so we could keep em' ; and eat em' ; along the way. GS: Right GH: Yeah. GS: What kind of clothes did you wear? GH: Clothes did we wear? We' ; d wear regular clothes. GS: Well, what would be regular clothes? GH: A shirt and pants. GS: Overalls, blue jeans? GH: Yeah mostly blue jeans, I didn' ; t wear overalls much. I don' ; t like overalls. Jeans and shirt, or no shirt. Most of the time in the summer time we had no shirt, yeah. GS: [Indecipherable] Yeah, and the girls probably all wore dresses. GH: Yes, they all wore dresses, yes. GS: What did you-- did you ever get to get out of the house to go do something fun like maybe at church or? GH: Oh yeah, let me-- let me tell you about this story. GS: Okay GH: Back in about 1950 GS: Uh-huh GH: Television came to Bristow JH: Ohhh GH: And one of the guys, Mrs- JH: Anyway GH: Anyway, her son won a television GS: Oh how nice GH: And gave it to her, and she let us come up there on Saturday nights GS: And watch TV GH: And watch wrestling JH: Outside, right? She put it on the front porch or in the house? GH: No, no she put it in the house. We' ; d have wood stove- JH: This wasn' ; t Solomon GH: No, no. JH: Okay go ahead. GH: I can' ; t think of her name now. Anyway, she let us come up there and the girls and boys would all meet up there on Saturday night and watch wresting and watch [Indecipherable] and throw the [Indecipherable] out. GS: Yes GH: Yeah, so we had a good time doing that. And then later on we got a TV and [Indecipherable] (Laughter) JH: A big TV GH: Yeah, a small TV, yeah. GS: Oh goodness, where did you first attend school Gerald? GH: Where? GS: Uh-huh GS: First grade I was in Edison, and then they decided well [Indecipherable] anyone come in a ride the bus had to go over to Washington. GS: Okay GH: So we went over to Washington and stayed there, so I guess, what, sixth grade maybe? GS: Yes GH: And then came back to the middle school GS: Okay GH: Here, and then graduated out of Bristow High School right out here. GS: Okay GH: But I went to both schools. GS: Okay, who was your first grade teacher?GH: Mrs. List (ph) GS: Mrs. List was your first grade teacher GH: Yes GS: I' ; m wondering if it was the same List that taught me in upper elementary GH: I don' ; t know, he-- they owned the List motors. GS: It was GH: Yeah, and my brother worked for em' ; GS: Okay GH: Yeah, yeah so she was-- I was telling you that story JH: Wendell List GS: Wendell List JH: Yeah, I don' ; t remember her name GS: Do you remember his old jalopy he used to drive in the parades? Thompson note: Wendell Oliver List (1903 -- 1986) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: Oh yes! Yeah, yeah. JH: She' ; s bringing back memories (Laughter) GH: Yeah, yeah JH: You must be older than you look GS: Well 82 GH: Well she' ; s listened to a lot of people, she' ; s listening to a lot of people (Laughter) GS: I remember that old jalopy in those parades GH: Yeah, yeah. He brought it every year. GS: It' ; s a rather memorable car to- Okay any good memories from grade school? GH: Grade school? GS: Usually kids don' ; t have a lot of memories from grade school GH: I didn' ; t have a lot of memory, I know we had a lot of fun like I' ; s telling you a while ago, playing out in recess time. GS: Yes GH: That' ; s what I like best, was your recess time, yeah. GS: Definitely so. GH: But I don' ; t have a whole lot of memories. That one I was telling you about first grade, I was crying all year all day long. [Indecipherable] GH: Can' ; t get rid of it GS: And you were only like four or five years' ; old GH: About five years old, yeah. Five years old. GS: When you started school GH: Yeah I started first grade GS: First grade GH: Yeah my sister, oldest sister, brought me in and set me down and walked out of the room and that was in- that was bad news. (Laughter) GS: Bad thing to do to a little guy GH: Yeah GS: Okay well what about junior high, [Indecipherable] GH: Well junior high, let' ; s see. What' ; d we do in junior high? JH: Lots to do with the farming or the, whatever [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah, FFA, I had a lot of FFA stuff there. GS: Okay, was that through the school? GH: Yeah, Mr. Pow (ph) taught us, we had a lot of shows [Indecipherable] One time I had this pig that I was gonna show, I had it in the back of the trailer, I was gonna take it out to the fairgrounds, but the thing got out, so I chased it all over the world out there. But I finally got it back in the trailer and it died. GS: Aww GH: And my brother wanted it butchered and I said " ; We can' ; t butcher that, that' ; s my hog" ; So we didn' ; t even get the meat from it GS: OH, what caused it to die? GH: Oh it just go exhausted running around over all the [Indecipherable] tryna get it back in that trailer, it just- for a pig nothing before me I' ; m not chasing it (Laughter) GS: Alright what about high school? GH: Oh high school, yeah we had a lot of fun in high school. We did all kinds of dumb stuff in High School GS: Were you into sports like Jim was? GH: No, I-- reason I couldn' ; t get into sports cause I' ; d have to ride the bus home GS: [Indecipherable] GH: They did everything after school GS: Yes GH: And if I stayed for sports, I' ; d have to walk home, because I didn' ; t have any transportation GS: I' ; ve heard that story several times too GH: Yeah, but later in High School I finally got me a car so JH: But you' ; d have any- you were in band. GH: Oh yeah I played, yeah I tried [Indecipherable] GS: What did you play in band? GH: I played the clarinet GS: Clarinet, I played the clarinet too GH: Is that right? GS: Yeah, who was your band director? GH: [Indecipherable] Fusco, Fusco (ph) GS: He was mine also GH: Is that right? Yeah JH: Oh she is older than she looks (Laughter) GS: Hey I graduated in 72' ; JH: That' ; s a long ways from 50' ; s. [Indecipherable] those old guys hung around forever GS: Yes they did GH: Yeah I forgot about that, yeah JH: No that' ; s another thing [Indecipherable] here, a lot of times, you' ; ve got the different classes of this n' ; that n' ; other. The athletes are here, ya know GH: Yeah JH: And the band people are here, and that n' ; other. Well he was in band and I was in sports, but we' ; re the best buds since you could ever ask for GS: That' ; s wonderful JH: And I don' ; t know exactly why he liked me GH: Ah, well we hunted a lot, we' ; d went huntin' ; and fishin' ; GS: Ah, you had that in common GH: Yeah, we used to go out and get the pecans, ya know, during Christmas time you had to have money. GS: Yes GH: If you' ; s gonna buy anything for anybody. GS: Yes GH: So we' ; d go out pickin' ; pecans up GS: Uh-huh GH: Sell them and picked them up on the halved out at the, north of town. And this guy, he let us pick them up on the halves. So we got a little money to buy a gift. GS: Now what does that mean by pick them up on the halves? GH: Well, like you' ; d pick up two of them and he gets one of them. GS: Okay, I kinda thought that' ; s what it meant (Laughter) GS: But just in case GH: Cause it' ; s his pecans, but you was doin' ; the labor for him so, yeah. But most of them didn' ; t even do it on, most of them only done it on the thirds. GS: Oh okay GH: But he did it with us on the halves, yeah GS: Good for him GH: Yeah GS: So GH: But we hunted and Jim wasn' ; t- he came out hunting, we hunted together. GS: Okay, what did you hunt? GH: Squirrel and rabbit GS: Okay GH: Eat them too GS: Okay GH: Yeah, people don' ; t even eat squirrel today GS: No, no GH: Wouldn' ; t even think about killing one of them lil' ; GS: Cute little fluffy things GH: Yeah running around on top of the house. The rabbit out in this yard, yeah [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: Wanna talk about global warming GS: Yes GH: We had, of course we were very short then too, but we' ; d have snow, ya know, up to your knee, and it' ; d be on there for several days, weeks maybe. GS: True GH: But today, if you get a little, ya know two-inch snow, it' ; s gone the next day and nobody thinks about it. So it has to be something to do with global warming. GS: I imagine it does. I imagine it does. JH: (Laughter) [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Are you an environmentalist? GH: No, not really. GS: Not, not really. GH: Not really. GS: Okay, any other memories from High School? GH: High school, no, yeah like I was telling you a while ago that going there in the twelfth grade I was [Inaudible] GS: Okay now you were in band, did you ever go to the tri state music festival? GH: Yes, yes I did. GS: Was that a bit highlight in your year? GH: That was a big highlight but I was never a very good player. GS: Oh GH: I remember I kinda just-- mediocre, ya know. GS: Uh-huh. GH: But we had a good band though. We had a band [Indecipherable] we went to tri state, where was that up in GS: Enid GH: Enid, yeah, you' ; re right. GS: I went so (Laughter) GH: Yeah, yeah we went up there GS: Yeah. Okay and now I know that Jim went to a church as a child, did you go to church as a child? GH: My mother I understand was really a stout Christian, and she' ; d took us to church every day. Dad didn' ; t go, but, but then I was baptized at the first Baptist church here in Bristow. GS: Okay, do you remember who your pastor was? GH: Day GS: Day? JH: Vernon Day (ph) GH: Vernon day, yeah. Yeah he was the pastor and I really remember going home and telling dad that I' ; d got baptized that day, and I' ; ll tell ya a little story about him too, he was [Indecipherable] because I was, I still remember today, of course we always would. But Whenever my mother passed away, we had these do gooders that' ; d come in from JH: Oh boy GH: Come out there and they were gonna- one of them was with the government. And they were gonna take the kids and divide them up GS: Oh no GH: Oh yeah. So he took a little gun, a shot gun to run them off. We never seen them since. GS: Well good, yeah. That' ; s horrible! GH: Yeah they come out there " ; Well you can' ; t take care of those kids" ; GS: Oh my goodness GH: So he' ; d run them off GS: Well good for him GH: We' ; d see them in the fence GS: Well good, that' ; s a good thing. Were you baptized in the church? GH: Yes, baptized in [Indecipherable] GS: I mean in the church physically GH: In the church, in the church yeah. GS: Okay, do you have any good memories of church growing up? Well I mean like, special events or anything, plays, choir, whatever. GH: Well I was- in the high school I was in a play. I was in, what you call, [Indecipherable] GS: Oh okay! GH: Yeah and I was the sergeant [Indecipherable] They' ; d tell my dad to come too GS: Oh [Indecipherable] GH: And I' ; d say " ; Yeah we can, we can- church" ; let' ; s see, thinking, of course they had to give [Indecipherable]. Christmas time they' ; d do that, an orange, an apple, and then [Indecipherable] candles GS: Yeah. So you were in this play in high school, were you in speech, drama, and debate? GH: No, I don' ; t exactly how I got into it, they just needed somebody and they had a competition and they picked, I don' ; t remember exactly why I was, cause I wasn' ; t in speech GS: Can you tell me anything about the entertainment that we had in Bristow? GH: Entertainment, oh yeah we had three, two- two shows GS: Okay GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: And one drive in theater out at the-- GS: Pirate drive in GH: Pirate drive in, take my little 39' ; ford and fold out seat. The back of it was welded, the trunk was welded shut, it had this seat to get into-- you had to raise the seat to get in the back of-- you had to pile in the back of there, and close the seat down. Drive to the window JH: Pay for one (Laughter) GH: Pay for one person JH: He' ; s to confessing now GS: I see that, I see that. Well now that I think about once a week, didn' ; t they have a- you know, everybody could stuff into the car for so much? JH: That was after our time GS: What about on the fourth of July, did they have the special event there? GH: We had-- well we did. We went out at the park GS: Okay GH: Most-- a lot of families. And we went out to the car ; we had tubs of ice [Indecipherable] That' ; s the only day of the year you ever got all 71 to drink. You didn' ; t care, you' ; d just go get you one, open it, drink it, this was on the 4th of July. Then that evening, they would have the fireworks. GS: Okay GH: Yeah we always had a good time at the [Indecipherable] GS: Well sure GH: Fun things they' ; d play GS: Yeah GH: There were several things get from the country [Inaudible] GS: Were there any other events like that that Bristow did back then that you can remember? JH: I can add one GH: Okay JH: Right now, what you' ; re thinking about the amphitheater, which I been to in the last two or three years. They still have a little bit of stuff out, but when I was young we was there and I can remember a gal in a wheelchair that one evening they were having a musical or whatever thing she sang " ; I' ; ll Never Walk Alone" ; You' ; ll never walk alone GS: Aww JH: So I' ; ve always-- that song' ; s always meant so much to me and all, but she had had polio I guess is what is was those days GS: Yeah JH: I' ; m glad that they' ; re using the amphitheater again a little bit GS: Yes, we are too JH: Yeah GS: It' ; s a good asset for the city of Bristow JH: And then we used to cross the street from that on the south side had the barns where we' ; d had the county fair-- not the county fair GH: No, the city fair GS: Oh no county fair was there JH: I thought it was GS: It was, we had the creek country fair there until they moved it to Sapulpa JH: Yeah GH: They used to have rodeos there when I was in school GS: Yes, yes they did GH: And parades, lots and lots of parades all the time JH: And they used to have carnivals out in that area, and one thing about [Indecipherable] maybe it was Porsche, Gerald I don' ; t know how we' ; re gonna decide who' ; s the [Indecipherable] and all, but I went there-- GH: [Indecipherable] (Laughter) JH: I was in about the third or fourth grade I went with Peggy Durham and her older, little bit older, friend and the three of us went to the fair and we was wanting to ride a ride. Well, all I had was a nickel or dime and so they pitched said " ; Well let' ; s just pitch our money all together and we can ride" ; So they pitched the money together and the three of us got to ride the Ferris wheel or something and so, you know (Laughter) GH: [Indecipherable] I never claimed to be poor because I didn' ; t know I was poor GS: Exactly, you know I thought-- JH: It' ; s the way it is GH: It' ; s the way it was GS: I think most people back then didn' ; t consider themselves poor, ya know. They had enough to eat, they had clothes on their back, and they were happy. GH: Absolutely, back then [Indecipherable] GS: Yup, yup. Can' ; t ask for much more than that. Did you ever have to go to the doctor when you were a kid? GH: Yeah I had to go- went to Doctor King of course GS: Yes GH: Talked about that a while ago GS: Uh-huh GH: About [Inaudible] GS: Okay GH: And they' ; d come to the school some and they' ; d- I know GS: Okay GH: I remember Crest- Crest toothpaste would give you a crest toothpaste and a toothbrush, and- GS: I' ; d forgotten that GH: And they gave that to us and, you know, take care of your teeth. And when I was in the service, first day I was in the service at boot camp, the guy says " ; How do you brush your teeth?" ; and of course I didn' ; t have any ideas. He said " ; Well the way you brush them is to brush them up and down" ; GS: Uh-huh GH: And so I brushed my teeth up and down ever since then GS: Sure GH: Then I went to dental school over here in Oklahoma City, and this doctor came in and said " ; How do you brush your teeth?" ; and I said " ; I brush them up and down" ; and he said " ; Well how come you do that?" ; and I said " ; Well that' ; s what I learned in the service, how to brush my teeth" ; . So he put it in his books, and you get his books now they have how to brush your teeth and brush them up and down. GS: I' ; ve heard that it should be up and down and not back and forth GH: Yeah, and the reason for- you know what the reason for that is? GS: No GH: Because you get your gums GS: I see GH: Gums down and massages your gum GS: Okay GH: And that' ; s what keeps your teeth in GS: Okay JH: Hmm GH: I' ; ve got all my teeth JH: Hmm GH: What JH: I just said ' ; Hmm' ; (Laughter) JH: Just thinking here, no yeah, Hmm GH: Well [Indecipherable] GS: Can you tell me anything else about entertainment in Bristow when you were growing up? GH: Let' ; s see GS: I know you didn' ; t get to come in often from the farm GH: No, swim. We used to come in and swim on special, I think it' ; s Saturdays maybe, I don' ; t know. GS: Was that at the silver plunge?JH: Silver plunge GH: Yeah, yeah GS: Okay GH: When we swam, of course we swam around ponds and [Inaudible] GS: And now GH: Swam in a lot of ponds and lakes GS: Yes, uh-huh. Yesterday in an interview I did, the man was telling me that there was a, of course the skating rink GH: Oh yeah, I forgot about that JH: Mhm GS: And that in the wintertime for a few years they had bowling on that skating rink floor. Do you-- either one of you remember that? JH: No GH: Barely, skating rink barely GS: Did you ever go skating in the rink?JH: Oh yeah, yeah yeah GS: Were you pretty good? JH: Well, I learned. GH: After many falls [Inaudible] GS: Yeah JH: Better now to stay up GS: Did you ever climb that long stairway up to the bathroom with your skates on? (Laughter) GH: Oh, I guess so, guess so. I forgot about that skating rink JH: I did too, it' ; s been on Facebook things here recently. GS: Did you ever go as a group, or did you just go individually? GH: We would go individually, I' ; d just [Inaudible] GS: Yeah. What about you, did you ever go Jim? JH: A few time, but I wasn' ; t a good skater at all GS: Aw okay GH: [Inaudible] Also it we used to skate the ponds, [Indecipherable] the ponds would freeze over GS: Yes GH: [Indecipherable] ice GS: Thick ice GH: And you could get on then and so my dad bought me a pair of ice skates GS: Yes JH: Hmm GH: And so I get that [Inaudible] of course I [Indecipherable] back then (Laughter) GS: As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? GH: Old GS: Amen GH: Now I' ; m old. [Indecipherable] I guess I wanted to be a cowboy GS: A cowboy? GH: [Inaudible] I always wanted to be [Inaudible] and stuff GS: Right GH: Silver [Inaudible] GS: Very romanticized image of the cowboy GH: Right GS: What was your first job other than farm? GH: Other than farm? GS: Yeah GH: Probably mechanic GS: Okay GH: My brother had a mechanic shop GS: Okay GH: There at the high school, in fact GS: Oh GH: And right there in the high school. And I worked for him at nights after school GS: Okay GH: He said " ; you' ; re doing a great job" ; and [Inaudible] JH: I' ; ll share a little bit of something here about we didn' ; t get into my first job and all. I was- first of all selling papers said ten and eleven, selling papers on the street GS: Okay JH: And back to the California people ; they come through, we had parking meters that you put your nickel, dime, or throw a pen there and pens turn the crank and it' ; d go down. But somebody taught us that if you chew gum and stick it up in there, then they would stick it up in there and crank and [Indecipherable] go on in J& ; J Café (ph) or in the Hamburger Shop and we could come along with a pocket knife and flip out the [Indecipherable]. But also I sold papers as I said on the street and I' ; d go in the pool hall and I' ; d go up to guys playing their dominos and everything, said " ; Well paper paper! Paper paper!" ; and no and one said " ; I can' ; t read" ; another woger (ph) said " ; C' ; mere" ; when they tell you that, you tell them " ; Well can you smell?" ; " ; Well yeah it' ; s all BS anyway" ; (Laughter) JH: So yeah you' ; re bringing back- we' ; re having memory time here GH: I will tell ya about the Oklahoma Times Supply (ph) GS: Oh yes GH: Well I guess one of the last ones, first job. It' ; s Christmas time they had flowers. GS: Uh-huh GH: And I delivered the flowers all over, part of it not all the city, but it was part of the city GS: Sure GH: The guy who worked with me, he' ; d throw his in the trash, in the trash JH: Nooo GH: And he wouldn' ; t deliver his GS: Well shame on him! GH: Yeah I know! GS: He wasn' ; t doing an honest day' ; s work for his job, was he? GH: No GS: He was not GH: Well he' ; d make fun of me JH: Told ya that sin and nature started a long time ago GS: Did you- do you have anything else on your paper there about any of the business or entertainment in Bristow that you? GH: Well yeah I tell you today about this John Sukabody (ph) guy, I don' ; t know GS: I' ; ve heard of the Sukabodys, but I don' ; t know much JH: Ohhh, feed store GH: He had a feed store GS: Yes JH: Yeah GS: Sukabody feed store GH: There on main street. Well he-- he hired little boys during the summer, worked at JR Childress (ph) [Inaudible] GS: Okay GH: And we got to be pretty good-- he was a really nice guy ; course he drank a lot [Inaudible]. But he was really a nice guy. So anyway when I got out of service, I was in there talking to him one day and I [indecipherable] any idea of what I was gonna do. But I knew it was gonna be brutal cause I went in to get the GI bill for school GS: Right GH: So he-- I said " ; I don' ; t know" ; I said " ; I' ; m thinking about going into plumbing" ; He said " ; Oh no" ; he said " ; You don' ; t wanna go into plumbing" ; he said " ; That' ; s a cold job, dirty job. What you need to get into is electronics" ; says " ; You' ; ve got air conditioning, you' ; ve got everything you need right there" ; So that sounded pretty good to me, so that' ; s what I did. I went in, went to school for [Indecipherable] electronics at OSU in Okmulgee GS: At Okmulgee, uh-huh, yeah JH: I [Indecipherable] forgot about that [Inaudible] GS: So did you do the two-year thing? GH: Oh yeah I did the two-years, got a job with the government, stayed in JH: Quite a successful [Indecipherable] I might add GH: Yeah, I thought life was pretty good with electronics, but I can' ; t even turn the radio on now. Can' ; t even-- can' ; t even operate my phone JH: Yeah I know GH: And I-- I was pretty sharp with electronics GS: It' ; s a different world now GH: Well you keep up with it GS: Yeah GH: [Indecipherable] Anyway that' ; s [Inaudible] GS: So is that how you made your living for years as an electrician? GH: Not electrician, electronics. GS: Electronics GH: Yes GS: Okay GH: Yeah I was in it for [indecipherable] Went to work for the government after I got out of OSU GS: Okay GH: [Inaudible] GS: Yeah OSU GH: yeah GS: Tech, school of technical training, yes GH: I got myself a social degree GS: Okay, yeah GH: So that' ; s what I got [Indecipherable] He said " ; What do you got?" ; I said " ; I' ; ve got two years' ; college" ; he said " ; No you' ; ve got a social degree" ; GS: There ya go GH: So [Indecipherable] social degree, one step up GS: There ya go GH: Anyway, I went to work for them then I went to work for-- Well I might tell you this story. Contract Administration, we would go out-- too much time? GS: No I just like to make sure it' ; s still running because I' ; ve had the battery go dead on me before GH: Oh, anyway, [Indecipherable] and went to work as a contract administrator. We were the ones who bought product for the government. Ya know, five-thousand-dollar hammer GS: Uh-huh GH: And get your groceries for fifty cents. Anyway, we bought those kinds of products. Well one of the products was [Inaudible] went to the moon. And what they did was they took some metal out to the moon with them and come back and made these little medallions saying " ; Moon Shop" ; GS: Oh yes GH: And the contractor that I was working with made the clothes, made the suits GS: Oh how wonderful GH: And so I was the guy that bought those suits, so anyway I got one of those with me [Indecipherable] GS: Oh that' ; s a wonderful keepsake GH: Yeah, I still- I can' ; t tell you where it is right now but I know I' ; ve still GS: But you' ; ve got it JH: You' ; ve got it (Laughter) GS: You' ; re sure of that GH: Anyway, that' ; s among some of the other things. But I had a lot of experience in that field GS: Sure GH: Ya know, all the products that they bought I bought them from American Lines to-- GS: So who did you work for at that time? GH: Worked for the federal government GS: For the federal government, okay GH: Contract Administration GS: Okay GH: DLA (ph) GS: Okay, very good. Okay so any other businesses or anything else you' ; ve got written on that paper you wanna tell me about? JH: While he' ; s lookin' ; I' ; ll tell you about my first job other than selling newspaper and delivering newspapers over the street. I was carrying five gallons of ice cream from the Locker Plant down to the Palace Drug where I worked for a short period of time. GS: Okay JH: With one of his aunts GS: Oh JH: Anyway, yeah Palace Drug GS: And you had to make sure that ice cream didn' ; t melt, didn' ; t ya JH: Yeah ya had to walk fast GH: What was that other one right there on North end of town? That little ol' ; - JH: The other what? GH: Café. Was it Ki-way (ph) GS: Ki-way Café? JH: Oh Hi-Café was good, yeah GH: is that the one on the north? GS: It was on the north JH: It was by the Locker Plant GS: North of ninth and main GH: Yeah JH: Yeah GH: Yeah GS: Yeah, that was a good place to eat GH: Yeah that was- I don' ; t remember that GS: Did you eat there often? GH: Oh I didn' ; t have nothing to eat GS: Yeah GH: I was in there a lot, but I didn' ; t-- cause somebody else was in there but GS: Yeah GH: But no I didn' ; t eat there very much. GS: yeah GH: I' ; ll tell ya about my first loan GS: Okay GH: At Bristow Community Bank GS: Okay GH: I went in there to get a loan, I wanted to buy a car. Well, they-- one of the banks wouldn' ; t loan it to me and I went to the other bank anyway. And I had [Indecipherable] for collateral, had to put my vehicle up for collateral. Then I went to buy insurance, and I went down to this friend of ours, so called, and State Farm. I said " ; I need to get some insurance" ; said " ; I' ; m not selling you any insurance" ; he says " ; You' ; s like a pig in a puddle" ; I' ; m like ' ; Okay' ; so GS: Well GH: Yeah I don' ; t know why he [Indecipherable], called me a catfish and called me all kinds of stuff GS: Well he didn' ; t want business very badly, did he? GH: [Indecipherable] I guess GS: I guess not GH: I kept thinking, his wife was [Indecipherable] she' ; s the one who took care of the girls and all kinds of things. Anyway, went in finally and when I went over to Allstate, and bought-- they sold me insurance for the car and then [Inaudible] GS: Well good GH: People are people GS: Yes, yup, yeah you never can predict them a lot of times. So what branch of the service were you in? GH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force? And what was your-- what were your duties there? GH: My duties in the air force I' ; ll tell ya that story. I went in and [Indecipherable] and I were friend, we lived out in [Indecipherable] county. Anyway, we went in, the recruiter says " ; Okay you boys can stay together. While you were in the service, we decided that you boys are really good" ; . Well we went- we worked together one night in base ; we went into basic training, got through with that. 8th Air force police force, 8th Air force police. We got wiped out in ol' ; Korea. So this whole platoon went into the air police except one. It was [Indecipherable]. Him and ol' ; [Indecipherable]. GS: Wouldn' ; t you know GH: Yeah, yeah I was in the air police, then from there I went to the canine school, and I had a canine, [Inaudible]. Reason I had a canine is cause I didn' ; t wanna go overseas. GS: Yeah, yeah I don' ; t blame ya there GH: I was like " ; Ehh" ; GS: Now this was in the late fifties, so Vietnam might have been looming on the horizon, wasn' ; t it? GH: Right at the end, right at the end. In 58' ; maybe GS: Well Vietnam ended in the early seventies GH: Not Vietnam, Korea GS: Korea GH: Maybe I said Vietnam GS: Yeah I said Vietnam, you were thinking Korea GH: Korea, yeah Korea GS: Yeah at the end of the Korean war so you might have had to have gone to Korea if you hadn' ; t done the canine thing. GH: Yeah GS: Well that was a smart move GH: Yeah that' ; s what I thought too GS: Yeah JH: But the dang dog like to eat [Inaudible] GS: Wasn' ; t your best friend? GH: No that dog I had he was mean as could be. When I' ; d go on vacation, they had to put a chain on his food bowl, they wouldn' ; t even go in there and feed him. GS: Oh my goodness GH: And they put a chain on his bowl to pull it out, put food in it, put it back in there. GS: You never couldn' ; t nicen him up?GH: No he would bite ya, he would- I' ; d give him a command he would growl at me. GS: Aww GH: Then I had to keep a muzzle on him anytime we was around any other dogs. GS: Aw, that' ; s a shame GH: But he was a good- GS: So what were they trained for? GH: They were trained for patrol GS: Okay, and did you take yours out on patrol? GH: Oh yeah, yeah every night GS: Did he make believers out of people? GH: Yeah, oh yes. (Laughter) GH: Yeah, the way they trained him of course, ya know, [Indecipherable] he' ; d be hiding out there in the woods somewhere in the grass, and the dog had to sniff him out. JH: Ohh JH: Attack them [Indecipherable] But anyway the reason I got out of service, I was thinking about staying in for four years, but they let me on post. They didn' ; t pick me up come daylight, they had to come pick the dogs up at daylight GS: Oh GH: So they never come pick me up, so about 8 O' ; clock I kept hollering and blowing the whistle. So finally I just walked up there to the shop, said I' ; d take me-- I was up in Clinton, Oklahoma at that time. It was at base at Altus and Altus was doing [Indecipherable] and they were sending us up to Clinton. So I walked in there and said " ; I' ; m good now [Indecipherable] Check me out" ; . So they sent me back down to the Altus [Indecipherable]. So that' ; s how I got out. GS: Aw, I guess it was you had been in there long enough to- you could do that too GH: I guess I' ; d learned then that- I learned then didn' ; t I? GS: I guess you did! Teach them to leave you on post! GH: Yeah they could be [Indecipherable] JH: You never do [Indecipherable] GH: But they had to put the dogs up anyway. GS: Yup, Did I miss something Jim? JH: Yeah, the bootleggers GS: Oh the bootleggers! We mentioned them but we didn' ; t go any further! Tell me about the bootleggers, one of ya. GH: Well the bootleggers- GS: Well you talked about buying the white lightening and then feeling guilty about spending the buck on it GH: Yeah, well it wasn' ; t my dollar, it was my dad' ; s dollar. GS: Yeah JH: No Frank Junie (ph) lived down the road from me, and everybody knew he was a bootlegger, and his daughter married a bootlegger whose name was Smith who lived across from J& ; J Café upstairs. But anyway, Frank had a boat with a cover over it and he' ; d go to Missouri and pick it up and come back so-- otherwise you drove one of these big cars and loaded it down the back end the highway patrol would stop you and then take all your merchandise GS: So are you saying he kept his white lightening in the boat? JH: No it wasn' ; t white lightening, it' ; s just liquor GS: Oh, that was bought JH: That' ; s right, yeah. And then the Texco (ph) Café somebody told me to-- was it you or somebody else that [Indecipherable] No, Jonny Baker, whoever run the Texco (ph) Café that' ; s where people stopped driving through from Chicago to California and need some liquor and they need to call over and Frank would bring it over to them and all GS: Okay JH: Yeah, but we- GS: And was that during prohibition or? JH: Oh yeah, it' ; s yeah. GS: Yup GH: I forgot to tell you about wheat harvest GS: Tell me about that wheat harvest GH: Wheat harvest, yeah we went to wheat harvest up in Kansas GS: Yes GH: And I drove the truck up there GS: Uh-huh GH: To wheat harvest. [Indecipherable] International truck GS: Yes GH: Stick, shift gears GS: Uh-huh GH: Come up [Indecipherable] had to hold it down and shift the gears. Anyway, of course he couldn' ; t afford to get a [Indecipherable], take the time out to get it fixed, he had to do it this weekend. Anyway, so when we got wheat done, we had bailed stubble, and then you cut the wheat about [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh GH: And then we had all this stubble. And he was bailing it, and the way they bailed it was they bailed it then run it off on another run. [Indecipherable] half the thing, and then they' ; d this pole, put it down in the ground, and hold it against them- push the bails off the skid. GS: Okay GH: Well I wasn' ; t big enough or strong enough, so when they put me on that one the thing tumbled on top of me GS: Oh no! GH: Rod came down, so the guy says " ; You need to go home" ; [Indecipherable] the wheat harvest then come home (Laughter) GS: Oh my goodness, Well, I know that wasn' ; t easy work and I do know a lot of young men did the wheat harvest too GH: Oh yeah JH: It' ; s pretty good money [Indecipherable] GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Yup, can' ; t beat that. Anything else that you can think of that we haven' ; t hit on Gerald? GH: No, but I was gonna tell you about the money though back when I went into service, I had a little money in the bank and I didn' ; t figure I' ; d ever come back to the service [Inaudible]. Anyway I gave all the money I had to my dad to put water into the house, when we lived down on the farm GS: aww, yes GH: And then I went on in the service, [Indecipherable] I came back. GS: Yeah. So you graduated in 54' ; and is that when you went into the service? GH: Yes, yeah GS: Okay, and you got the GI bill, you got your education paid for, and you went to Okmulgee. GH: I wouldn' ; t say it was paid for, I starved to death there too. My wife worked, we went to Okmulgee GS: Uh-huh GH: My wife worked in the library, and [Indecipherable] I worked for fifty cents an hour GS: Yes GH: Up there at the [Indecipherable]. Oh I' ; ll tell you about that story. One night we put the money, after you work and [Indecipherable] and you put it in wall. Well, you' ; d put it in a sack and drop it down the wall [Indecipherable]. Well one day, we came around and money wasn' ; t there. But I wasn' ; t working, the other guy was working. JH: [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah absolutely, but I had to pay for it anyway. But anyway, he accused us of stealing the money. I said " ; I didn' ; t steal, I don' ; t even have it, I don' ; t know what you' ; re talking about" ; so anyway we got with the cops and they put us in [Indecipherable], in a bag and put it behind this wall. Come to find out, this kid was watching and he' ; d climb through one of the windows right there and went over there and got the washers and they called. Well, he wanted us to pay and started making us pay a dollar a paycheck to pay that money back that he' ; d lost in that [Indecipherable] and I said- GS: And you didn' ; t even take it! GH: Did not! He just [Indecipherable] so that' ; s when I quit. GS: Well yes I would too. That just wasn' ; t right at all! I' ; m gonna ask you the same question I asked Jim. As you see it now, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? GH: Biggest problem that I can [Indecipherable] is selfishness GS: Yeah GH: People who haven' ; t had to work, are not working, they think the big government is gonna take care of them for the rest of their lives. Talking about giving them free college, and free this free that, which I think is wrong and way to turn that around is to give a persona a hand up instead of a hand out. GS: Give them an incentive GH: Give them something [Indecipherable] teach them out to fish and all that stuff GS: Exactly GH: And I think that' ; s what' ; s gonna have to take place, now whether it' ; s gonna take place or not, it' ; s very doubtful that the way that we' ; re running the government now that we' ; re doing anything right. People from these other countries come in ; Cartels are just eating us up down here, kids up, people up, costing us millions of dollars. And somebodies having to pay for all that. Anyway, I think the problem is that the government is getting too big to control for its own good. GS: Yeah, I have to agree with you there GH: And I think the only way you can change it is probably through elections. GS: Yup GH: If you can find [Indecipherable] GS: Amen, amen. Anything else you wanna tell me that I haven' ; t hit on or that you' ; ve got in your notes there that we didn' ; t hit on? GH: I think we covered just about everything, that' ; s what I think. JH: Well you' ; ve got a lot of stories now, don' ; t you? GS: Yes, we do. We have a lot of stories and it' ; s so fun doing this. It' ; s really nice to-- JH: And someday will I be able to get onto the internet and see something? GS: Yes, I can' ; t tell you when it' ; ll be. But there are some on there already, BristowHistoricalSociety.org, BristowHistoricalSociety.org. You can go on there and listen to some of them that are on there. We' ; ve got Mr Krumme JH: So, .BristowHistoricalSociety.org GS: .org JH: Okay GH: Of course [Indecipherable] Hamburger King, I don' ; t know if we ever talked about that. GS: We didn' ; t talk about Hamburger King, what are your memories of the Hamburger King? GH: Memories of the Hamburger King is that we met down there about every night GS: Uh-huh GH: Kids would meet there and have dates and all this kind of stuff. Then we' ; d come down there and reminisce once in a while. Of course I didn' ; t have a car at that time, I' ; d have to either catch a ride or walk home. GS: Right GH: And sometimes I could catch a ride and sometime I didn' ; t, so I' ; d have to walk home. But we' ; d- that' ; s a gathering spot for people [Indecipherable]. GS: Okay was it mostly for the younger generation? GH: Oh yeah, just for the high schoolers. GS: Yeah, well did they have music or anything like that? GH: I don' ; t remember having music in there, did we? JH: Only when Jonny Lee Wills or one of the big bands came through that' ; s always where they either stopped there or out at Lucian Tigers place where Luke Fry now lives out between Slick and Kellyville, they also had big parties out there. But yeah, the big country bands, Jonny Lee Wills, Bob Wills, and all of them, they would stop at Hamburger King GS: Yeah JH: Then the J& ; J Café was always fancy for the more wealthy people and all the society-- GS: To eat at JH: --that went to the J& ; J Café. But the black people I don' ; t remember if we mentioned or what but they had to park around at the back and knock on the door and the guy would come out and take their order and go back in and fix it and then bring it out and they had to eat in their car. But you know that' ; s why this route 66 in [Indecipherable] Chicago and went to where in California? GS: I don' ; t remember JH: Santa Maria, it wasn' ; t where people from Los Angelas, Santa-- GH: Santa? JH: No, Santa something or other, but anyway yeah there' ; s lots of memories from Hamburger King GS: Okay, alright well GH: Yeah we used to when Jim was talking about parking a wagon behind those stores, we did that, that' ; s how I came to get to go to town, by wagon. We either came there by horse, or walk, or wagon. GS: uh-huh GH: And sometimes you could catch a ride on the wagon, the wagon would come by and you' ; d run out there and get on the back of it and hitch you a ride to town GS: Well sure! GH: So you didn' ; t have to walk. So anyway, they parked it, you tied em up behind those stores and there had to be somebody down there with them all of the time because people would come in and steal stuff out of the wagon. GS: So were there more wagons or more automobiles? JH: [Indecipherable] more wagonsGS: More wagons at that time JH: Yeah more wagons, I don' ; t know [Inaudible] GH: There was also a little restaurant and a little hotel type thing down there, Donald Crawford, boy you' ; re really pulling up now, but it was there right across the ally and then there behind that behind Thorpe' ; s and the fay and [Indecipherable] was where all the wagons parked in there and left them, ya know, they just tied them up and walked-- take care of their business GS: What Block would that be Jim? JH: You know where the big café at sixth, right? GS: Uh-huh JH: Okay GS: Golden Eagle Café? JH: Yeah, right just east there to the back ally and then there and then run- yeah GS: Okay yeah I see, that' ; s really interesting. Well thank you both very much for coming today. I appreciate it so much Gerald. I' ; ve not had a chance to tell any of my neighbors that I said you' ; re related to that- or you told me you' ; re related to, I haven' ; t got a chance to tell them I' ; ve spoken with you so thank you very much, I really appreciate it. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml
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Gerald Henshaw
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In this 2021 interview, Gerald Henshaw shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Jim Hurt. He discusses life on a farm, numerous jobs, and together Gerald and Jim share stories from their young adult lives.
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OHP-2021-17
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2021-06-30
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
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Harry Britt McCarty
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml
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genealogy
family
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5.4 OHP-0013-01 Harry Britt McCarty OHP-0013-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. McCarty Family History genealogy family Harry Britt McCarty Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|26(1)|38(8)|59(8)|74(10)|96(12)|109(14)|125(5)|139(7)|170(5)|194(12)|216(2)|240(9)|260(13)|274(8)|283(6)|295(13)|303(13)|319(1)|339(14)|366(2)|380(10)|406(2)|421(6)|443(14)|456(11)|466(2)|489(12)|527(8)|551(7)|562(7)|586(2)|598(11)|606(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0013-01 McCarty, Harry.mp3 Other audio 0 Locations of McCarty Family Graves BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty’s living room. MM: Okay— BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn’t go to the cemetery. Discussion of the locations of McCarty family members graves. Bea ; Bryant Fassmore ; Colorado River ; diptheria ; Harry McCarty ; Lola ; Marble Falls ; Old Man Holloway ; Port Acana ; Sam Holland ; Wash Crosson cemeteries ; graves 285 Family Members and Genealogy MM: Ask him how many of—if he could tell all the names of papa’s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we’ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad’s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa’s Holland’s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don’t know. Discussion of the Family Genealogy of Harry McCarty Alex ; Bryant McCarty ; Charlie Edwards ; Ferrell Blythe ; Laura ; Port Lavaca ; Tom Holland ; Wiley Thompson family ; genealogy 728 Traveling to Houston for Bea's Funeral HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that’s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don’t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that’d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn’t anybody in ‘em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it’s twenty-six miles well there’s twenty-four cars, I don’t remember. And we’d went right down between ‘em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. Stories of the trip to Houston when Bea died fog light ; Paul Stephens ; travel funeral ; travel 1023 Move to Oklahoma MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in—I guess it was the early part of ’18. MM: What time, when did you come out? Discussion of moving to Oklahoma in 1918 Baker ; Bert Burnett ; Bristow ; Ed Barnfield ; Lawton ; Mina Phipps ; Wichita Falls Moving ; Oklahoma 1100 Family Names ZM: Your mother died in ’68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must’ve died about two years before, didn’t she? Discussion of family genealogy Audry Simmons ; Betty Lee ; Betty Simmons ; La Porte ; Marble Falls ; Vivian King family ; genealogy 1342 Old Family Pictures BM: I was gonna say, we’re gonna leave—try to get away about the last of September or the— ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]— BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That’s Bryant’s (ph) dad. Discussion recorded while looking through family pictures Bea ; Jack Higgins ; Keeg ; Lannow ; Lorreine ; Marble Falls ; Pictures genealogy ; pictures 1688 Butchering a Boar Hog BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him— MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to— Memories of butchering a hog butcher ; hog butcher ; hog 1821 Location of Family Graves ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I’d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn’t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she—her husband’s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they’d been there for a long time. I guess there’s nothing there. But anyhow she— Discussion of location of family graves Marble Falls ; Nina ; Toby gravesites In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives. BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty' ; s living room. MM: Okay-- BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn' ; t go to the cemetery. BM: Do you know-- HM: I don' ; t know the name of it-- BM: Don' ; t even know the name of it? HM: No, I don' ; t. BM: Who could--where could a person find out? HM: I don' ; t know. I don' ; t have any idea. MM: What year was she buried, do you know that? HM: I don' ; t know that either. I don' ; t know [indecipherable] remember. But Lola died when we lived down there at Port Acana (ph) with the diphtheria. And she was the--she was the third one that was ever put in that Port Ac--that cemetery out there. They might' ; ve had another cemetery there around Port Acana (ph) but I didn' ; t know it. And there was a Shell Road run right along down, going down from Evercorn (ph) down toward Port Acana (ph) and there was a gate went into that cemetery right along there and Old Man Holloway (ph) was buried there first, and Bryant Fassmore (ph) was buried there second and she was buried there third. And they took Old Man Holloway (ph) up and sent him back to--I don' ; t know whether he was buried in that Fairland Cemetery (ph) or Toby (ph), over there. And after we left there I never went back to her grave. MM: Where did his grandpa [indecipherable]? Where was-- BM: Do you have any idea where your grandpa was buried? HM: Grandpa who? BM: Grandpa McCarty. HM: No, I don' ; t. BM: Well, I--Grandma Holland, where was she buried at? HM: She' ; s buried there at Toby (ph), I think. I' ; m pretty sure she was. BM: Well there' ; s somebody told me there was something--where I got this I don' ; t know. They said there was also a McCarty Cemetery right around Toby (ph). HM: No, I never did know of any McCarty Cemetery. BM: That the Toby (ph) cemetery was their--this other one, it wasn' ; t even close to--it was close to this Toby (ph) cemetery, alright, but it wasn' ; t right in this Toby (ph) cemetery. HM: I don' ; t think there' ; s anything to that. That Toby (ph) cemetery sat right along like that, and there was a schoolhouse out here, and right off down in this pasture here just a little ways was where the old homeplace was, where dad was raised. BM: Yep. HM: The old Holland place. Grandma Holland--grandma married Sam Holland after dad' ; s father was shot. MM: He lived right there at Toby when grandpa was shot? HM: I don' ; t know where they lived then. I think dad was--I think he said he was eleven years old, I believe. BM: Yeah, six--seven makes five. I believe he said five. I believe I remember hearing him say five. I may be wrong there. MM: I heard him a Corey (ph) talk about it [inaudible]. BM: And I' ; ve always wondered where that he was buried. HM: Well, I don' ; t know that he could' ; ve been buried around that Toby cemetery (ph) if they lived there, I' ; m satisfied they lived around [inaudible]. BM: They had to live right in there-- HM: Somewhere. BM: --in there around Marble Falls or somewhere in that neighborhood, anyway. HM: He' ; s buried there in one of them--well there was a Wash Crosson (ph) cemetery back up on the Colorado River that there was several--I don' ; t know if there' ; s any McCartys ever buried up there but there' ; s several people buried up there. MM: Ask him how many of--if he could tell all the names of papa' ; s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we' ; ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad' ; s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa' ; s Holland' ; s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don' ; t know. MM: Someone told me, maybe it was Uncle Tom, of all of them, the step-brothers and --sisters and half-brothers and --sisters and all the [indecipherable] there was thirty-five kids in that generation. HM: Well, it could' ; ve been. Had a lot of them Hollands that' ; s scattered around over them hills there that had families that was old enough that I thought that they was Grandpa Holland' ; s brothers. But Uncle Tom said that they was his brothers and half-brothers. MM: Well, now, Grandpa McCarty was married before he married papa' ; s mother. He had kids before them. HM: Yeah. He had, he had Keeg (ph) and Epp (ph). MM: Where did Alvin (ph) come in? HM: And he had Miney (ph) and he had that that I was talking about a while ago, McCourse (ph). BM: Mac horses. HM: Ida, I think was her name. Wasn' ; t there some of them down there at that reunion? BM: No, there wasn' ; t none of this down there so I tried to-- MM: They' ; ve mostly died, so, on that-- BM: --that is the reason I wanted to run this down myself and I can go from there with it. But we intend to take off either about the last of September or the first of October after it goes to cooling down, run this all down, and we' ; re going to try to find a place where it' ; ll be a little bit warmer for winter. HM: Well that, there name was McCourse (ph), and Ida (ph) was a sister to Miney (ph) and Epp (ph) and Keeg (ph) and they was my grandpa' ; s first marriage, I guess. MM: And how many was--papa and Ari (ph) and how many of those kids was there? HM: Well there was just three. MM: Three? HM: Alex (ph) and dad and Ari (ph). MM: Where' ; d Alex (ph) die? HM: I think there around Port Lavaca somewhere. BM: I believe I remember hearing something about this, but I wasn' ; t sure on that. HM: They lived down there when dad and Laura and Ferrell (ph) Blythe out when the calvary went-- BM: Yeah, yeah, I remember hearing them talk going to Port Lavaca to see Keeg (ph) I believe what it was. HM: No, see Alex (ph). BM: Alex (ph)! Yeah, that' ; s the way it was, Alex (ph). MM: Okay, now, did grandma McCarty have a family before her and grandpa married? HM: Yeah. MM: Who did she have? HM: Well, she had--she married (pause) I don' ; t know whether she was married before she married to Thompson but she had Wiley Thompson (ph) and Charlie Edwards' ; (ph) mother, Mary by Thompson, but I don' ; t know what his name was. MM: Do you remember what year Bea (ph) died? BM: Well, I remember hearing about it. HM: He died when we lived out there in the oil field. BM: Yeah. When we lived out there on the hill. MM: About what year? BM: And, see, Bea (ph) and her old man and them two girls come back when you lived out there in the field. ZM: When we lived out there [inaudible]. BM: On the old-- MM: Sunrise. BM: Yeah, Sunrise. They come back-- ZM: First time we went up there, went out there, was in 1930 and ' ; 40, wasn' ; t it? HM: Thirty-nine. ZM: Thirty-nine. Nineteen-and-thirty-nine and forty. Christmas, you know. And come back about New Year' ; s. HM: Yeah, but she hadn' ; t-- ZM: And then we made another trip, we made about three or four trips down to the Port. We went [inaudible]. HM: [Indecipherable] come down there to the house. MM: What was their last name? ZM: Simmons. MM: Simmons? S-I-M-M-O-N-S? ZM: S-I-M-M-O-N-S. We moved up there in [indecipherable] what year, 1940? Yeah. HM: No, we moved up there in ' ; 41. BM: Forty, ' ; 41, somewhere in there, that was when Amelia (ph) was--when Laura Ina (ph) had the first, first-- ZM: Amelia (ph). BM: Amelia (ph), wasn' ; t it? Oh, that big [indecipherable] was rough to carry down them steps-- MM: Forty-four or ' ; 45, isn' ; t that about where Bea (ph) died? BM: --that old hospital. ZM: I don' ; t know, I don' ; t have any idea. HM: Well, let' ; s see. BM: I believe it was later than that. ZM: Yeah, I believe it was, too. BM: It was--I know you were still up here, but it was later than that. ZM: Well was we here when Bea (ph) died? Yeah, yeah, we lived in here when Bea (ph) died. We moved in here in ' ; 67. Might be-- HM: No, we didn' ; t. BM: No, you hadn' ; t moved to town whenever Bea (ph) died. [all talking] HM: We lived out there in the oilfield. BM: You lived out there on oilfield, out there in the oilfield, out there on thirty-three. (pause) But I-- HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that' ; s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don' ; t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that' ; d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn' ; t anybody in ' ; em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it' ; s twenty-six miles well there' ; s twenty-four cars, I don' ; t remember. And we' ; d went right down between ' ; em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. ZM: --he said, Well I wish they' ; d get over there! Said, Right over here in my lane! I wish they' ; d get a four-lane drive! And he was over in the third lane! And he said, I wish they' ; d get over there! And Flossie (ph) said, well, Raymond! Said, Why don' ; t you look where you' ; re driving! Said, Maybe you' ; re in the wrong--maybe you' ; re driving wrong. I' ; m not driving wrong! he said. They' ; re just a' ; crowd, trying to crowd me off! [Inaudible.] HM: Across that--we went through that Columbus and stopped ate supper and I saw a lot of driving then it wasn' ; t quite dark, and I saw some of them cedar bricks afire. It looked like smoke just roll out ahead of you, and then it kind of clear up and then here it' ; d come again. And we got on down there and eat supper in Columbus and went on down and had to cross that Colorado River between there and Houston twice, and boy I never did see--I drove fifty miles an hour that night watching, without a fog light, the car went around it had a fog light, and all I could see was two little lights just (laughs). And I drove fifty miles an hour trying to see where I could see them, and every once in a while you could tell you passed something on the shoulder. And went on down and had to stop and get gasoline and that old boy there running that station, he said, Where' ; d you come from? I told him, and he said, Man I don' ; t see how you made it though that, down through there crossing that river up there, that. He said, I been in there a few times when it was just like it is tonight, and he said, I don' ; t know how you made it without a fog light. ZM: --letters that I had the other day, I could tell you about what-- HM: But we went on down there and we went to the funeral the next day but we didn' ; t go on to the cemetery. But that night went in there to La Porte, I don' ; t know what time it was, it was late. Saw a cab stand there and three or four men standing around it, we didn' ; t know where we was going. And I said, I' ; m gonna ask these guys here at this cab stand if they happen to know Paul Stephens (ph), and went out there and one of them said, Is that the man that lost his wife? And I said, Yeah, I guess it is. And he said, Well, I don' ; t believe I could tell you to where you could find it, but he said, Just follow me and I' ; ll take you down there. It was plum across town, and got down there, why, he turned around and he told us that' ; s where it was. And I got out and went out there and I said, How much I owe you? He said, You don' ; t owe me anything. I said, Well I don' ; t want you to do it for nothing, I said, I want you, I' ; m gonna give you something. He said, Well, it won' ; t be anything, it' ; d just be the cab fare for coming down here, and he didn' ; t want to take that. Wasn' ; t much, I don' ; t know what it was, it wasn' ; t much and I thought that was pretty nice of him. BM: Yeah, it was. MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in--I guess it was the early part of ' ; 18. MM: What time, when did you come out? HM: I come later on. I come in the fall. September. And he had worked over there at Lawton, and we was over at Wichita Falls, Bert Burnett (ph), and I went back and lived with grandma Holland for a while. And he come on out here--he started to Wyoming, and that Mina Phipps (ph), his half-sister, was living down there below Bristow. He hadn' ; t seen her in a long time and he was up there to see her. And they talked him into the notion of staying. He went to work for Ed Barnfield (ph) out there on the old Baker place and worked for him a while, then he went to work for Baker, then he rented the place. ZM: Your mother died in ' ; 68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must' ; ve died about two years before, didn' ; t she? BM: That' ; s what I was thinking. I thought--it was just before I bought that place out there, or right about the same time I bought that place out there. HM: Well, I don' ; t think Bea (ph) died after we moved in here. I know she didn' ; t. ZM: No, I know she didn' ; t either, because I-- HM: We moved in here in ' ; 57. ZM: --I couldn' ; t hardly make up my mind whether I wanted to go or not and right at the last I did, and we went up by the mailbox and we found the letter from someone, I don' ; t know who it was from, that Bea (ph) was real bad, and we went on down there-- HM: Went on to Marble Falls. ZM: And stayed all night, and you and Red (ph) got up the next morning and called Houston, went down and called Houston and-- HM: Called La Porte. ZM: She was just as bad as she could be, they said. And we decided we' ; d go on down there but she was gone when we got there. MM: What was her kids names? ZM: Betty and Vivian and [inaudible]. MM: All girls. ZM: Uh-huh. MM: Do you know their names now? ZM: Well, Betty' ; s is Simmons (ph), and-- HM: Betty' ; s is what? ZM: Simmons (ph)? No, not Simmons (ph). Her maiden name was Simmons. I don' ; t know, maybe it' ; s in here. I forgot all of their names so maybe it' ; s in here. Mack (ph) is--Mack (ph) Betty' ; s husband' ; s name [inaudible]. BM: Their daughter killed herself. MM: Wow. BM: Betty' ; s and Mack (ph). ZM: I don' ; t know. I' ; ve got the others here, Vivian [inaudible]. BM: Well, her name is not what it was then. ZM: [Inaudible.] MM: What about [inaudible]. ZM: Betty Lee and Vivian King (ph) and Audrey Lola Simmons. That was before they was married. This is her picture. Betty, Vivian, and Audrey, this was ' ; 44. HM: Aubrey Simmons (ph) and Bea (ph) separated and she married Paul Stephens (ph), wasn' ; t it? MM: Her name, then, when she died was Stephens (ph). HM: I never did see him but one time, that fall. ZM: Yeah, when she died it was Stephens. HM: I saw him, we went to Austin. ZM: There' ; s Betty--uh, Bea, and that' ; s her three girls and that' ; s her. MM: Ain' ; t nothing worse than picking up a tape you' ; ve made [indecipherable] date and where we at and say, We were somewhere and sometime we made this tape. (laughs) We make-- ZM: [Inaudible.] These are just pictures. BM: I was gonna say, we' ; re gonna leave--try to get away about the last of September or the-- ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]-- BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That' ; s Bryant' ; s (ph) dad. BM: Yeah. HM: And mother. BM: I think--I know, I think Valerie got one of these. Pretty sure she does have. Well I' ; ve seen this one before. ZM: You have. HM: Well, you' ; ve seen them too, I think. BM: Yeah, I' ; ve seen--I remember Bea. HM: I mean, Uncle Keeg (ph) and-- BM: Yeah, yeah. HM: They come to Bryant' ; s (ph) when we lived up there on the [indecipherable] up there. BM: Now, Keeg (ph) and them should be in there somewhere, buried in there somewhere around Marble Falls. HM: I think they, they lived up there around Lannow (ph). BM: Lannow (ph) and Marble Falls, in there some dang place. HM: I imagine, I' ; d have to imagine they was buried around Lannow (ph). They lived up in there for, for quite a while. Well, the last two times we went to seem them they lived up in there. And I don' ; t know--they could' ; ve been brought back down there to Toby (ph), that' ; s where he was raised. BM: Well, that-- ZM: This picture was taken when you and her were--Lorreine (ph) went, and I was sick and didn' ; t get to go in to my favorite [indecipherable] and Lorreine (ph), and this picture was made in March 1955. It' ; s you all at your momma' ; s. That was before Bea (ph) died, I' ; m sure it was. HM: I don' ; t know. We left out there in ' ; 57, I know that. And I think Bea (ph) died--Herbert and Lorreine (ph) lived over there on that hill there from Jack Higgins' ; (ph) because of Audrey (ph) and Neely (ph) lived over in Tulsa and they found out about Bea (ph) faster than we did, and they called Herbert to find out if any of us was a' ; going, they wanted them girls to go. And we had already gone. But we didn' ; t know she was dead. Well, she wasn' ; t dead, I don' ; t guess then, when we left. And Herbert and Lorreine (ph) left off of that hill there and went to New Mexico. Right over in New Mexico, and lived out there for a good while after that. MM: That' ; s a good picture of [inaudible]. ZM: Yeah. [Inaudible.] (talking in background, inaudible) ZM: --Sixty-one, was it? HM: Yeah. BM: I was thinking it was ' ; 60, but it was ' ; 61. HM: It was ' ; 61. BM: ' ; 61. MM: Yeah, he died in May. Buddy died one May and he died the last day of April--I don' ; t know if it was March or April the next year. BM: Yeah. April the next year. MM: I know that he come out there when Buddy-- ZM: This was taken was on Easter Sunday and we was out at Herbert' ; s. And mother was there and she had, she told me several times after, after dad passed away, I wanted my picture taken with him, with dad, and I said why didn' ; t you tell us? She said, Oh, I don' ; t know, I didn' ; t know whether Laura would like it or not. BM: Doesn' ; t make a damn bit of difference anyways. (laughs) make a damn bit of difference! ZM: --near the same age, she said, and she sure just--she told me that I don' ; t know how many times, I wanted my picture taken with Frank. MM: Well, we got a big picture of him on a horse just about a year before he died. We had one-- BM: Did you get one of them? MM: My sister took a snapshot HM? Hmm? BM: Of dad on that horse. HM: No. BM: Just, oh, probably-- MM: --took a snapshot and the boy went across it and-- BM: --oh, I think it was November. HM: Mmm-hmm. BM: I think it was November. MM: I know it was the summer Buddy was killed. BM: Well it was after Buddy was killed. He' ; d had--it was cold. MM: Anyway, my sister had this, one of them little pictures just something, and Loyd (ph) blowed it up like that and [indecipherable] and hang on the wall. BM: It was cold, but--it was cold enough that it' ; s the same day that-- MM: That' ; s what you ought to do with them four generations, have it blowed up. BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him-- MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to-- MM: [Inaudible.] BM: No. MM: I know it wasn' ; t in the fall. BM: It was in the fall. I went in after him to see how he felt and I said, How you feel dad, and he said, Oh I don' ; t feel very good. MM: I think ' ; cause that hog [indecipherable]. BM: Well, I got to cut that old boar hog, go to getting everybody so I can knock him down. He said, Son I' ; ll go out with you but I just don' ; t know whether I can do anything with him or not. Well, come on, you tell me what--you just stand back and tell me what to do and I' ; ll do the rest. ZM: You' ; s a cutting, huh? BM: Man, well, I can do that. I got out there and got that old boar hog all stretched out and come over in that pen. He said, Go and let me do that. I think my knife is pretty sharp, let me do that. (laughs) He felt of his knife a little bit, Well, now, I believe it needs to be whitted (ph) just a little bit. Okay. He whitted (ph) his knife up a little bit. I still had that old hog stretched out. Well he got one of ' ; em out and he just throwed it over the fence and said, Well somebody sure make some good dinner. MM: Have a hog [inaudible]. BM: Went back after the other, got the other one, went over to pick the first one up and the old dog had done run off with it. Damned old bitches, run off with my dinner now I' ; ll just give you both of ' ; em. MM: [Inaudible.] ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I' ; d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn' ; t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she--her husband' ; s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they' ; d been there for a long time. I guess there' ; s nothing there. But anyhow she-- BM: She moved ' ; em out to Toby. HM: Out to Toby and buried them out there side by side and they was separated, and one of them was buried in one part of the cemetery there at Marble Falls and another in another part. She put ' ; em side by side up out there in Toby but there wasn' ; t nothing to it, I don' ; t guess, anything much left. They' ; d been buried so long. Anyhow, but-- BM: There' ; d be a few bones but that' ; d be about it. Doubt whether there' ; d be that or not. HM: I don' ; t--she had a gold band ring and they left it on her when she was buried. And I don' ; t know what part was left of her or anything about it, but Red told me that Nina (ph) said that they couldn' ; t find that ring. She made that old boy keep a' ; digging in there until he did find it. That, that looked like foolishness to me. But one thing she did do, my mother' ; s father was named Britt (ph). And he was buried way off down in that Colorado River somewhere down there in a cemetery, I don' ; t know what the name of it was. He didn' ; t have any tombstone and she went off down there after John died and looked his grave, found where he was buried and she put a tombstone to his grave. And he' ; d been dead for no telling how long. (talking in background) end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml
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Harry Britt McCarty
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In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives.
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OHP-0013-01
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McCarty Family History
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1986-07-16
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Regan Siler
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Helen Marie Varner
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5.4 July 18, 2024 OHP-0060 Helen Marie Varner OHP-0060 01:01:53 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Helen Marie Varner Cheryl Varner Regan Siler 1.0:|26(10)|66(11)|95(6)|117(11)|145(13)|174(7)|199(15)|227(7)|248(8)|281(3)|325(6)|349(6)|379(8)|413(7)|437(4)|476(16)|504(17)|534(4)|575(10)|596(11)|621(7)|651(6)|692(7)|709(15)|727(14)|755(6)|778(3)|795(8)|816(9)|828(3)|854(4)|890(6)|901(12)|922(7)|952(3)|980(3)|1003(13)|1030(3)|1064(4)|1110(18)|1140(16)|1173(3)|1212(3)|1235(5)|1263(19)|1291(14)|1321(7)|1339(10)|1364(13)|1393(13)|1415(13)|1442(4)|1466(10)|1483(9)|1492(6)|1506(17)|1522(4)|1548(8)|1576(14)|1595(6)|1615(3)|1633(11)|1636(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0060 Varner, Helen Marie.mp3 Other audio 1 Background This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 18, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Helen Marie Varner and her daughter-in-law, Cheryl Varner, at the Bristow Library Annex. She’s going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; HV: Helen Marie Varner.
 ; Helen talks about her early life. She was born in Sapulpa, Oklahoma. Helen is currently 87 years old. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Helen Marie Varner ; Cheryl Varner ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Life ; background 0 66 Parents and Siblings RS: Can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parents’ full names?
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad’s name was Gilbert Johnston [Gilbert Rossie “Gib” Johnston 10/8/1913-10/30/1982] and mother’s name was Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston [Helen Lucille “Sassy” Bristol Johnston 8/8/1920-8/27/2007].
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, and I understand that did your dad go by Gib?
 ; 
 ; HV: Gib, yeah.
 ; Helen tells Regan the names of her parents. Helen also says that she has one brother, Sam. Gilbert Rossie Johnston ; Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston ; Sam Everett Johnston ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Farmer's Feed Store Family 0 126 Parents' Occupations RS: Okay. What type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad was road foreman, a road supervisor, first for, well, he mowed the highway with a team of horses.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my gosh.
 ; 
 ; HV: Then he went to work for Buster Hudgins (ph), who was the county commissioner for Creek County, and then he went to work for Mr. Barnhart (ph) who was also a county commissioner. So, he was the road boss for two different people. And then he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee [Oklahoma] in 1964.
 ; Helen's father was a road supervisor, then later went to work for Buster Hudgins. Buster was the county commissioner. Later on, he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee. Helen's mother ran the cafe both in Okmulgee and later here in Bristow. Buster Hudgins ; Creek County ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Occupation 0 179 Grandparents RS: Okay. Growing up, did you have family that lived nearby you?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah. Both grandparents, my aunts and uncles. It’s always been very close.
 ; 
 ; RS: Very close. So, grandparents on both sides?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen lived close to both sets of grandparents when she was growing up. She was always close to family. Grandparents ; Aunts ; Uncles Grandparents 0 200 Moving to Bristow RS: Okay, and aunts and uncles. Has your family, well, obviously, you started off in Sapulpa, so how long has your family been in the Bristow area?
 ; 
 ; HV: We moved here in 1970.
 ; 
 ; RS: 1970.
 ; 
 ; HV: Except for Sam and Kay. They still live in Sapulpa.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so tell me why they moved here.
 ; 
 ; HV: My dad popped off and sold the sale barn at Okmulgee.
 ; Helen and her family moved from Sapulpa to Bristow in 1970. They moved because her father had sold the Okmulgee sale barn and then ended up buying the sale barn in Bristow. Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; sale barn ; Doyle Matthews ; Mr. Foster ; Leon Devine ; Barlett-Collins Bristow (Okla.) 0 303 Early Childhood RS: Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, all right. So, let’s talk about your early childhood and your home life. We’re going to dig real deep now.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay.
 ; 
 ; RS: Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood or favorite games that you played?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, I was like a tomboy, so we had little holsters and guns and we played cowboys and Indians.
 ; Helen was a tomboy growing up and loved to play cowboys and Indians. She did have one friend that she played dolls with. Helen's chores consisted of helping around the farm doing things like milking the cows and feeding the goats. Games ; Chores ; Farm ; Sapulpa (Okla.) Childhood 0 433 Hobbies as a Child RS: Okay. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; HV: Barrel racing.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you were a barrel racer?
 ; 
 ; HV: Not the best, but I was one because my dad, if you had a good horse, and somebody wanted to buy it, he sold it. So, I was put on a lot of different horses, a lot of different times.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how long would you say you barrel raced?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, I was probably 15 until, no, I would have been younger than that. Twelve to eighteen.
 ; 
 ; RS: All right. Did you collect anything as a child?
 ; 
 ; HV: No.
 ; Helen loved to barrel race when she was young. She rode many different horses because her father sold them often. Barrel racing Hobbies 0 466 School RS: You were always outside playing, weren’t you? So, let’s talk about your school life. Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, Lonestar School, two-room, outside toilet. We had one through, let’s see, one through four and then five through eight.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, and then from there where did you go?
 ; 
 ; HV: Sapulpa High.
 ; 
 ; RS: To Sapulpa High School. Okay. So, did you, you graduated from Sapulpa, right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen first attended school at Lonestar. Later she attended Sapulpa High School. Helen's favorite subject was math. Lonestar School ; Sapulpa High School ; Sapulpa (Okla.) school 0 612 Childhood Home RS: Yeah, exactly! So, I know you kind of mentioned your house. Can you tell me about the house that you grew up in? Like what it was like.
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, it was just a four-room house and we had a wood stove, but we also had one gas stove, and we had heavy blankets, and momma used to heat bricks to put at our feet in the winter time. 
 ; 
 ; RS: Wow!
 ; 
 ; HV: No water. I’ve already told you we had water out of the buckets.
 ; Helen's first home as a child did not have indoor plumbing. Her family had an outhouse and did not get indoor plumbing until Helen was 14 when they bought another home. house ; outhouse ; Plumbing Home 0 711 Mealtimes RS: Okay, so what were mealtimes like in your family? Did you get together every night and sit down to eat dinner?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so, was your mom a fabulous cook?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, she was a great cook.
 ; 
 ; RS: Is that where, I mean, obviously, we all know that you’re a heck of a cook, too. Is that where you
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, my mom, and eventually, Jerry’s mom. She was a great cook, too.
 ; Helen and her family always ate dinner together every night. Her mother was a great cook. Helen had many great cooks to teach her-her mother, grandmothers and later her mother-in-law. Her favorite meal was roast beef. Mealtime ; Cook ; Mother ; Grandmother Mealtimes 0 805 Bristow RS: Okay, well, thinking about, okay, so when did you, do you remember how old you were when you moved to Bristow.
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t remember how old I was but 
 ; 
 ; RS: Roughly, so were you
 ; 
 ; HV: I was married with three kids
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so you were married with
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, Sam and Jeff was in the first grade.
 ; Helen does not remember exactly how old she was when she moved to Bristow. She says she was married with three children when they moved. Bristow (Okla.) ; Sammy Dean Varner ; Jeffrey Joe Varner Bristow (Okla.) 0 821 Community Activities RS: Okay, so, thinking back to town life around Bristow, do have memories of favorite community activities like Western Heritage Days, county fairs, day camps, stuff like that? Do you have any memories of that? Even if it’s with your kids.
 ; 
 ; HV: Of course, the kids got into sports immediately. But at the sale barn, we had Ben Camp, T. Reid McCollough’s boys, all these kids worked for us starting out. And, so, there was always people around and all of that was fun. And you got involved with the parents in that way.
 ; Helen says her children immediately got into sports when they moved to Bristow. She also said they had Ben Camp at the sale barn and were involved in the community with that. Western Heritage Days ; Ben Camp ; T. Reid McCollough Community Activities 0 874 Businesses Around Bristow RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember some of the biggest and/or most popular businesses around town?
 ; 
 ; HV: JC Penneys was in the old Root’s building.
 ; 
 ; RS: We had a JC Penney?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, you did.
 ; 
 ; CV: It was a big one.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, upstairs and downstairs. Really nice.
 ; Helen remembers the different businesses that were in Bristow when she was younger. She remembers the JCPenney and it being really nice and having two stories. Helen also remembers the Strong's shoe store, the dress shop that Mrs. Stanford owned and Montgomery Ward. JCPenney's ; Harvat's Jewelry ; Silver's Jewelry ; Montgomery Ward ; Oklahoma Tire and Supply ; Walmart Businesses 0 969 Clothes RS: So, as far as growing up and as a teenager, do you remember getting to shop for clothes? Did you family make your clothes?
 ; 
 ; HV: You really want me to tell you this?
 ; 
 ; RS: I really want you to tell me. I really do!
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so we were in the country. And, so, my dad would buy feed sacks that were the same. And then my mom would make me clothes out of those feed sacks.
 ; Helen remembers her mom being a great seamstress and sewing her clothes out of feed sacks. She did own jeans and t-shirts but says her dresses were made out of feed sacks. She started buying more of her clothes when she started high school. Clothing ; feed sacks ; seamstress ; high school Clothing 0 1077 Automobiles RS: That’s unfortunate. Do you remember your first family car? What kind of car it was?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, we didn’t have a car for a long time. We had a two-ton truck or a pick up.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, always trucks.
 ; Helen's family did not own a car for a long time but always had some sort of truck. Helen learned to drive from her later husband, Jerry when she was sixteen. Her first car was Buick. Car ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Buick automobile Automobiles 0 1182 Entertainment RS: Okay. What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV, and if you did, 
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, we didn’t have TV.
 ; 
 ; RS: You didn’t even have a TV.
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, until we got electricity. And then in the fourteen, of course, we had Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. And we went to my grandmas, Grandma Johnston’s, and that’s where, I think it was on Tuesday nights, and that’s where all the cousins by the dozens and everybody came.
 ; Helen's family obviously did not have television until after they got electricity. Helen loved watching Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. She would go to her grandmother's house on Tuesday nights and watch it with her cousins. Television ; Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour Entertainment 0 1226 Pivotal Historical Moments RS: Well, I used to watch a lot of old stuff when I was a kid. Do you recall, I know that it took a while to get electric and all that, but do you recall any pivotal events in history that you saw on TV?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, the most outstanding thing that I saw was the day that John F. Kennedy got murdered. 
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you recall actually seeing, watching about that.
 ; 
 ; HV: We were at my aunt’s and seen that on TV.
 ; Helen remembers seeing John F. Kennedy get shot and seeing it broadcast on television. She felt terrible, she loved Kennedy and thought he was a great president. Television ; John F. Kennedy historical moments 0 1277 Music RS: Right, okay. Did you enjoy listening to music? 
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah, country!
 ; 
 ; RS: So, like who were some of your favorite artists?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, Ernest Tubb. I can’t think of them right now. All, whoever sang great songs at the Grand Ol’ Opry.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Minnie Pearl.
 ; Helen loved listening to country music. Her favorites were Ernest Tubb and Minnie Pearl. Ernest Tubb ; Grand Ol' Opry ; Minnie Pearl Music 0 1291 Medical Care RS: Oh, yeah. Okay. What was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah. Dr. Walter Kale (ph). And he was great. Delivered all my kids. Made house calls. Perfect doctor.
 ; 
 ; RS: Those were the days, huh?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen's doctor was Dr. Walter Kale. He delivered all of her children and even made house calls. She had all of the normal illnesses as a child-mumps, chicken pox and the measles. Doctor ; Dr. Walter Kale ; epidemic ; Mumps ; Chicken pox ; Measles Medical care 0 1359 Holidays RS: You didn’t. Okay. So, tell me what celebrating holidays was like in your family. Was it a big deal?
 ; 
 ; HV: It was a big deal.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, so can you tell me about a typical Christmas growing up whenever you were a kid?
 ; 
 ; HV: We usually went to my Grandma Johnston’s and my mom picked up pecans to sell so that we could have Christmas.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, everyone got gifts?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, we got gifts from my mom and dad, but I mean, my Grandma Johnston was able to give everybody, might be a pair of panties or not very much, but we all got a present.
 ; Helen says Christmas was a big deal in her family growing up. Her mother would pick up pecans so that they could afford gifts. They would spend Christmas at her Grandma Johnston's house. They always had a large gathering with a big meal. Helen also celebrated Easter as a child with an Easter egg hunt. Holidays ; Christmas ; Fourth of July ; Easter ; Halloween Holidays 0 1447 Career Dreams RS: And it was mainly Christmas was your big exciting holiday of the year. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh heck, probably a cowboy.
 ; Helen says she probably dreamed of being a cowboy when she grew up. Christmas ; Cowboy Career 0 1456 Jobs RS: A cowboy! With your six-shooter! Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the different jobs you’ve had during your life. Tell me
 ; 
 ; HV: The first thing I did was I worked at a little grocery store.
 ; 
 ; RS: And this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]?
 ; Helen's first job was working at a little grocery store in Sapulpa. She then got a job at Bartlett-Collins. Later, after she had her children, Helen worked in the office at the sale barn in Okmulgee. Helen ended up working at the sale barn in Bristow after her father purchased it. Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Frances Carpenter ; Bartlett-Collins ; Sammy Dean Varner ; John DeWayne Varner ; Jeffrey Joe Varner Job 0 1518 Stock Yards RS: Okay. And then you helped at the stock yards in Okmulgee [Oklahoma].
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, I ran the office.
 ; 
 ; RS: You ran the office. Okay, and then, I know you told me after this situation with your dad “popping off” and sold the Okmulgee Stock Yards, that he purchased the Mid-America at Bristow.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; Helen's father purchased Mid America Stock Yards in 1969 and had the first sale in 1970. Helen's father expanded it over the years and had their largest sale in the 70's with over 3,000 head of cattle. Stock Yards ; Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Okmulgee Stock Yards ; Mid-America Stock Yards ; Bristow (Okla.) stock yards 0 1654 Small Businessman of the Year HV: So, my dad was made Small Businessman of the Year in 1973.
 ; 
 ; RS: 1973. I knew you had mentioned that but I didn’t have the date.
 ; 
 ; HV: And, actually, Tracey Kelly was the one that
 ; 
 ; RS: And that was in Oklahoma, right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Small Businessman of the Year for Oklahoma in 1973. Well, what an honor.
 ; Helen's father was made the Small Businessman of the Year in 1973. Tracey Kelly gave the award. Small Businessman of the Year ; Tracey Kelly ; Oklahoma Small Businessman of the Year 0 1687 British Broadcasting Company HV: And then in 1975, the British Broadcasting Company done a story on Tom Paxton. Do you know who Tom Paxton was?
 ; 
 ; RS: I don’t.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, he was a singer that sang, he was so famous in England. And his mother was still living here. And they came and they done a
 ; 
 ; RS: By here, you mean in the United States or in Bristow?
 ; 
 ; HV: Right here in Bristow.
 ; The British Broadcasting Company did a story on Tom Paxton in 1975. He was a singer that was famous in England. The Broadcasting Company ended up in Bristow and filmed a lot of Helen and her family. British Broadcasting Company ; Tom Paxton ; United States ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Lois McMillan ; Harry McMillan ; Bill Shattuck ; Bristow Library ; Tulsa (Okla.) British Broadcasting Company 0 1844 A Typical Day at the Stockyards RS: As far as a normal day at the stockyards, what did that look like for you? Like, what were your responsibilities working there?
 ; 
 ; HV: Basically, we had horse sales on Monday, Monday nights. You were there early. We helped cook. Tuesdays you did the banking. Wednesday and Thursday, not much. Fridays we had lunch. Saturdays I was always there at 6 o’clock in the morning. We didn’t miss work. Nobody missed work.
 ; Helen reminisces on what a typical day was like at the sale barn. She said they always had the horse sales on Mondays. Tuesdays they did the baking. Saturdays were always busy, and she arrived at 6 o'clock in the morning. Helen says you always showed up to work and sick days weren't an option. Stockyards Stockyards 0 1935 Memories at the Stockyards RS: Or just get in the truck! So, and this is probably a loaded question, because I know you were there a long time, can you remember any particular funny stories or anything that happened at the stock yards that you would want to share?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, one night, at a horse sale, we were having the sale as usual, and the sale had to be stopped. Why was the sale stopped? Because Jerry had to go out in the back and separate his two young men, John and Jeff.
 ; Helen recalls some funny memories at the sale barn. One time her husband, Jerry had to stop a sale so he could stop a fight between two young men. There were also run-ins with skunks at the sale on more than one occasion. Stockyards ; Mort Durbin ; Jerry Dean Varner Stockyards ; Memories 0 2100 Book RS: I, also, understand that you and Jerry wrote a book together.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, this is the Cowtales & ; Recipes. We wrote it on Sunday mornings, and we argued probably most of the day whether his words or my words were the best.
 ; Helen and her husband wrote a book together. It is called Cowtales & ; Recipes. They wrote them every Sunday morning and eventually had them compiled into a book. Jerry Dean Varner ; Skye Varner McNeil ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Cowtales & ; Recipes Book 0 2162 KREK HV: Oh, and he was on the radio with them every Sunday. Or maybe it was Mondays.
 ; 
 ; CV: No, I think it was Sunday at KREK.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, he was on KREK, and also, they ran them in the newspaper. But I think we had to pay to get them in the newspaper.
 ; Helen's husband was on the radio telling stories from their book. It would play on Sunday mornings on KREK. Their stories also ran in the newspaper. Radio ; KREK ; Newspaper ; Historical Society ; Stockyards ; Todd Hiett ; Corporation Commissioner ; Speaker of the House ; Skye Varner McNeil ; Bristow (Okla.) KREK ; Radio 0 2241 Halloween Parties HV: Oh, yeah! And we had great Halloween parties.
 ; 
 ; RS: See, I asked you about Halloween!
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, this was here.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, let’s hear about it.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so we had, I don’t know how we became like the center of whatever, because we were just plain old country people. But we had, EVERYBODY came. You know, we had the McMillians. We had the Kellys. We had all the people from downtown that had businesses.
 ; Helen and her family had very large Halloween parties for several years. They would invite many different families from the community like the Kellys, the McMillians and the Mitchells. They had dances and spook houses, and everyone dressed up. Halloween ; McMillian ; Kelly ; Mitchell ; Jeffery Joe Varner Halloween 0 2319 Water Tank HV: I guess it changed or we just got older or something. But it was a, it was a great place for everybody to come and everybody did! Didn’t matter who you were or what you did. Oh! And one time, so we all, on your birthday, you got dumped in the water tank.
 ; 
 ; CV: You didn’t have a choice. You just went.
 ; 
 ; RS: You didn’t fight it?
 ; 
 ; CV: Well, you could fight, but it didn’t matter.
 ; 
 ; RS: It didn’t matter.
 ; Helen said that if you were at the sale barn and it was your birthday that you would get dunked in the water tank. She said even if it was January and cold that they would break the ice for someone to get dunked. Birthday ; Water Tank ; Lavon Lane Water Tank 0 2396 Selling the Sale Barn RS: Oh, boy! I’d be glad that my birthday was in the summer then! So, you had the sale barn for 51 years?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: Fifty-one years. And what made you decide to finally to sell?
 ; 
 ; HV: My kids were ready.
 ; The Sale Barn was in Helen's family for 51 years. Helen said her kids were ready to let it go. Helen does still bake the cakes though. Sale Barn ; Baking ; Cooking Sale Barn 0 2423 Benny Chapman HV: Another funny story. You know Dr. Chapman. Did you know Benny Chapman?
 ; 
 ; RS: I did not.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay, so that was their youngest son, and he worked at the sale barn. So, one morning, Dr. Chapman, so it goes, went out to get his shoes, a pair of shoes, out of the garage, and he didn’t have just a pair of shoes, but almost all of his shoes were in the garage with cow manure on them.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, no!
 ; 
 ; HV: Benny had worn a different pair all the time, and was Dr. Chapman mad!
 ; Dr. Chapman's son, Benny worked at the sale barn. Apparently, one morning Dr. Chapman went out to the garage to get a pair of shoes and almost all of them were covered in cow manure. Benny had been wearing his dad's shoes to work at the sale barn. Dr. Chapman ; Benny Chapman ; Sale Barn Benny Chapman 0 2472 Husband, Jerry Varner RS: Oh, my goodness! Let’s talk about Jerry [Jerry Dean Varner 10/30/1936-1/24/2017]. When and where did you first meet him?
 ; 
 ; HV: We met at Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. He was there to rope and I was there to run barrels. 
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you didn’t go to school together?
 ; 
 ; HV: No, he went to Pretty Water.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Then, they went to California. Yeah, then we were back in school together, but we hadn’t met yet.
 ; Helen met her husband while attending a roping in Sapulpa. He was there to rope, and she was there for the barrel racing. She thought he was the cutest thing alive on a horse and made the first move by offering to buy him a soda. Jerry Dean Varner ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Pretty Water School ; California Husband 0 2556 Marriage RS: That’s good! Can you tell us about your engagement? Did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period?
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t think we really got engaged.
 ; 
 ; RS: You just got married.
 ; 
 ; HV: We just eventually, we dated, he was the only one I ever dated.
 ; Helen said Jerry was the only man she ever dated. They dated for a couple years before they got married. They were married when they were seniors in high school. High school ; Marriage Marriage 0 2611 Wedding RS: Where did you get married at?
 ; 
 ; HV: In my mom and dad’s house.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, in Sapulpa? Okay. Can you tell us anything about your wedding, what your wedding was like?
 ; 
 ; HV: It was just very simple. I wore a suit. Jerry’s, my grandparents were there. Jerry’s grandparents were there. Jerry’s mom and dad, of course. Jerry’s boss, who was Johnny somebody-or-other, was his best man. And my Aunt Lila (ph) was my maid of honor.
 ; Helen and Jerry had their wedding at her parents' home. It was very simple. She wore a suit, and they had a few close family members in attendance. Wedding ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Jerry Dean Varner Wedding 0 2648 Early Married Life RS: Oh, okay. What were your, especially since you were young, what were your early years of marriage like?
 ; 
 ; HV: Not always good.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, expand on that. What do you mean?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, one time, okay, so, we were in a little house, and Jerry, for some reason, got mad at his aftershave, or this squirt stuff, this soap. And, so, he squirts it all in the bathtub, and I ain’t gonna clean it out. And he isn’t either. I think it stayed that way for about three or four days. We finally had to break up and take a bath.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you were both stubborn, huh? 
 ; 
 ; HV: We were both stubborn, yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how old were you when you, so how long were you married before you had kids?
 ; 
 ; HV: One year.
 ; 
 ; RS: One year.
 ; 
 ; HV: One year and one week.
 ; Helen says the early years of marriage were not always good. She admits that they were both stubborn and that could make things difficult. They were married for a year before the birth of their first child. Marriage ; Jerry Dean Varner Marriage 0 2701 Becoming a Mother RS: So, what was it like for you as a young mother? What were some of your challenges?
 ; 
 ; HV: I really didn’t have any because I had lots of help. My mom was great help. Jerry’s mom, you know, when I went to work, with Sammy, momma kept him.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, you had a very supportive family?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh yeah, always.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, that always helps.
 ; 
 ; HV: On both sides.
 ; Helen had a very supportive family to help raise her children. Her mother and her mother-in-law helped with the children. Jerry Dean Varner ; Sammy Dean Varner Mother 0 2719 Financial Struggles RS: So, in the early days was it like financially a struggle?
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were pretty broke.
 ; 
 ; RS: Paycheck to paycheck?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah, yeah.
 ; 
 ; CV: Now when did Jerry go to, was it the navy, army?
 ; 
 ; HV: Army.
 ; 
 ; CV: Army.
 ; 
 ; HV: When Sammy was about two.
 ; Helen says the early days of their marriage were definitely a struggle financially. Her and Jerry basically made it paycheck to paycheck. Jerry joined the army when their son, Sammy was about two. Sammy Dean Varner ; army ; navy ; Jerry Dean Varner Financial Struggles 0 2747 Children RS: Okay, well, let’s talk about your kids since you mentioned, tell me how many kids you have and what their full names are.
 ; 
 ; HV: Okay. Sammy Dean Varner [1/13/1956-5/6/2020] and he was born in ’56.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay, I have January 13, 1956. Is that right?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; Helen and her husband had three sons. Their names are Sammy, Johnny and Jeffery. Helen thought her middle son would be a girl and had all sorts of girly clothing ready for him. Helen recalls some funny memories of raising a houseful of boys. Sammy Dean Varner ; Johnny DeWayne Varner ; Jeffery Joe Varner Children 0 3038 Grandchildren RS: Good boys. Hard working boys. So, how many grandchildren do you have?
 ; 
 ; HV: Seven.
 ; 
 ; RS: Seven grandchildren. Do you want to name all of them?
 ; 
 ; HV: Sure.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; HV: Pokey. His name is Sloan. Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Moo [Melynadee], Rayne.
 ; Helen has seven grandchildren. Their names are Sloan, Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Melynadee and Rayne. Grandchildren Grandchildren 0 3058 Great-Grandchildren RS: Okay, and then how many great-grandkids do you have?
 ; 
 ; HV: Fourteen.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness. That’s a lot.
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: And you feed everybody, don’t you?
 ; 
 ; HV: Yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: That just blows my mind. But I think that’s why you’re a spry lady. You stay busy all the time, don’t you?
 ; Helen has fourteen great-grandchildren. They are all close and Helen still enjoys cooking for her whole family. Great-Grandchildren Great-Grandchildren 0 3074 Christmas Parties HV: Well, I used to. If it wasn’t for my girls, I wouldn’t. I have mentioned our parties. We had Christmas parties for my whole family. Not only did it include my family, my cousins, it took Melody’s family, her cousins, her kids, Cheryl’s mother and dad, friends, like the Beaches. Used to be they were friends for a long time, of course, they’ve passed away. But anyhow, so we’d have it out at the VFW.
 ; 
 ; RS: So, how many people are we talking, probably, maybe?
 ; 
 ; HV: Maybe 150?
 ; 
 ; CV: 150 at least.
 ; Helen and her family threw large Christmas parties. They would have about 150 guests and hold it at the VFW building. Children 12 and under would receive gifts. Joe Sam Vassar was their Santa every year. Christmas ; Beach ; Santa Clause ; Joe Sam Vassar Parties 0 3178 Important Inventions RS: Okay. Well, I’ve still got a few more questions, so, and these might make you think a little bit so. So, be ready. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; HV: Invention? Well, it sure as hell wouldn’t be computers.
 ; 
 ; RS: I didn’t say, I didn’t say your favorite. The most important.
 ; 
 ; HV: Electricity.
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, I mean, for you, I bet that was the best thing to have.
 ; 
 ; HV: Oh! It was!
 ; Helen says the most important invention in her lifetime was definitely electricity. She does not like how computers have become such a regular part of daily life. Invention ; Electricity ; Computers Inventions 0 3217 How Things Have Changed in the World RS: Okay. How do you feel the world is different now than whenever you were young, like a kid?
 ; 
 ; HV: I don’t think people are respectful anymore. I don’t like attitudes with the kids at school. Are you wanting the negative crap that I’m going to say.
 ; Helen feels like people aren't as respectful as they used to be. She does not like the attitudes that children at school have nowadays. Helen feels like we need to get back to basic family togetherness. World ; Respect ; Family World 0 3312 Nation's Biggest Problem RS: Yeah. So, along that line, what do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem and how do you think that can be solved?
 ; 
 ; HV: I think there’s a lot of corruption. I think that we spend, I think our senators, representatives and all those people have been spending way too much time making bills. I think they ought to go up there and whatever problems there are, solve a few and go home and go back to work and do something else and not just make a total living off of being a representative. And I’m talking about, not only state but nationwide. I think that we’ve got a whole bunch of people, especially in Washington that have made boo-koos of money, that they’re rich. How did you get rich on $50,000 a year or sixty or seventy-five? Ain’t no way, honey! So, you know, I’m pretty plain spoken, but that’s the way I feel.
 ; 
 ; RS: That’s why we appreciate you.
 ; 
 ; HV: That’s the way I feel.
 ; Helen feels like the government spends too much money. She thinks there is a lot of corruption. She feels like representatives should not expect to make a living off of that but should have other jobs besides government. Nation ; Corruption ; Representatives Problem ; Nation 0 3377 Historic Events RS: I completely respect your opinion. How have historic events affected you? Say, for example, thinking back to, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, Covid, maybe any natural disasters. Can you think of any particular historic event that maybe really affected your life?
 ; 
 ; HV: Well, recently, of course, it was Covid. And I think that is the most disrupted, stupid thing that history has put us through. I don’t believe it. I know there was Covid out there, but I think that a lot of it had to do with the way they were treated. And I think you can’t lay on your back with Covid and everything that you seen, the patients were there, they were on their back.
 ; Helen recalls how Covid affected her life. It made business at the sale barn rough, having to make sure people kept their distance. It also affected her son in his death. He had heart problems and died alone in the hospital because of the restrictions. She also talks about John F. Kennedy's murder and wondering if there was more to it. Helen also talks about Donald Trump being shot recently and how that will be a pivotal point in America's history. Historic Events ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; September 11 ; Covid ; Sale Barn ; Jerry Dean Varner ; Sammy Dean Varner ; John F. Kennedy ; Donald J. Trump Historic Events 0 3565 Wisdom RS: Okay, so is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?
 ; 
 ; HV: Love your family. 
 ; 
 ; RS: That simple. Love your family. Okay, I like that.
 ; Helen ends the interview with some words of wisdom. She says to love your family. Helen believes families should be close-knit and stay together. Wisdom ; Family Wisdom 0 MP3 Helen Marie shares about her young life growing up in the country, her beloved family and her 51-year history with the Mid-America Stockyards. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 18, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Helen Marie Varner and her daughter-in-law, Cheryl Varner, at the Bristow Library Annex. She’s going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? HV: Helen Marie Varner. RS: And do I have permission to record this interview? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born? HV: Yes, in Sapulpa, Oklahoma, of course, twenty-five miles from here. RS: Okay, and what’s your date of birth? HV: July 3, 1937. RS: So, you just had a birthday then. HV: I did. I’m 87. RS: I have to say that whenever I learned that, and you gave me your birthdate when we had our phone interview, I thought you gave me the date wrong. I thought, there’s no way she can be 87 years old! HV: I am! RS: So, I think you are doing good! HV: Thank you. RS: Can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parents’ full names? HV: My dad’s name was Gilbert Johnston [Gilbert Rossie “Gib” Johnston 10/8/1913-10/30/1982] and mother’s name was Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston [Helen Lucille “Sassy” Bristol Johnston 8/8/1920-8/27/2007]. RS: Okay, and I understand that did your dad go by Gib? HV: Gib, yeah. RS: I have his date of birth as 10/8/1913? HV: That’s right. RS: Okay. And then your mom, she went by Sassy? HV: Uh-huh. RS: Okay. And I have her birthdate as 8/8/1920? HV: Yes, that’s right. RS: Okay. And then do you have any siblings? HV: Yes. My brother, Sam Everett Johnston, and he’s in Sapulpa at the Farmer’s Feed Store. RS: Okay, okay. HV: And he’s been there about thirty years. Since 1980, in the 1980’s. RS: So, you just have one sibling? HV: One brother. RS: Okay. What type of work did your parents do? HV: My dad was road foreman, a road supervisor, first for, well, he mowed the highway with a team of horses. RS: Oh, my gosh. HV: Then he went to work for Buster Hudgins (ph), who was the county commissioner for Creek County, and then he went to work for Mr. Barnhart (ph) who was also a county commissioner. So, he was the road boss for two different people. And then he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee [Oklahoma] in 1964. RS: And how long did he have the sale barn in Okmulgee? HV: He sold it in December of ’69. RS: Okay. And did your mom work outside the home? HV: No, she didn’t. But now, she ran the café both at Okmulgee and here in Bristow. RS: Okay. Growing up, did you have family that lived nearby you? HV: Oh, yeah. Both grandparents, my aunts and uncles. It’s always been very close. RS: Very close. So, grandparents on both sides? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, and aunts and uncles. Has your family, well, obviously, you started off in Sapulpa, so how long has your family been in the Bristow area? HV: We moved here in 1970. RS: 1970. HV: Except for Sam and Kay. They still live in Sapulpa. RS: Okay, so tell me why they moved here. HV: My dad popped off and sold the sale barn at Okmulgee. RS: So, he popped off? Explain that further that he popped off. HV: He popped off. Somebody said what will you take for it? And my dad opened his mouth and said it, and he said sold. RS: And they took him up on it? HV: You don’t back out of your word. No matter how bad you want to. RS: Right, right. So, then from there, he was like, I need another sale barn? HV: Yes. Yeah. RS: And he found Bristow? HV: And he found Bristow. It had been, I was trying to think the other day. I don’t know if Doyle Matthews was involved, Mr. Foster and Leon Devine. And I really don’t remember who actually owned it at the time that dad bought it. RS: So, you were how old around this time? HV: Whatever. RS: None of us are good at math. HV: Let’s see, I think, you caught me off guard. I think I was 27 when I went to work at CV: How old were you at the glass plant? That was before, wasn’t it? HV: Yeah, I was 19 when I went to work there at Barlett-Collins. RS: So, you were a teenager, then, when your dad HV: Well, no, I was married with three kids by the time dad bought it. RS: Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, all right. So, let’s talk about your early childhood and your home life. We’re going to dig real deep now. HV: Okay. RS: Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood or favorite games that you played? HV: Well, I was like a tomboy, so we had little holsters and guns and we played cowboys and Indians. RS: Oh! That’s funny! HV: And rode horses. And I had dolls. I had one friend that we played dolls with. RS: Did you have chores that you were expected to do. HV: Basically, we had to help milk cows if he had a cow to milk. My dad also dealt in livestock. So, if you had some goats to feed, you fed the goats. Whatever we were told that day. RS: So, basically, you just had to help around your farm doing whatever needed to be done. HV: Yeah. RS: But you did have chores. HV: Yeah. RS: You did have stuff you had to do every day. HV: We had draw water from the well. RS: Oh gosh! HV: Drank water out of a pail with a dipper. Had a bathtub in the kitchen and Sam took the bath first and then me and then momma and then dad. RS: Oh, my goodness! HV: Same water. RS: Oh, my goodness! CV: Can you imagine?! RS: NO! I can’t imagine! So, growing up, so this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma] whenever you were this age. So, did you have friends that would come over and play or were you too busy with your chores and working around HV: No, no, my dad always had people there, a lot of times for supper. Or you had hard hands that were there my mom fed at noon. So, yeah, we had friends that came over. While they would play pitch or whatever, we would play outside, just like I said cops and robbers or that kind of stuff. RS: Okay. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? HV: Barrel racing. RS: So, you were a barrel racer? HV: Not the best, but I was one because my dad, if you had a good horse, and somebody wanted to buy it, he sold it. So, I was put on a lot of different horses, a lot of different times. RS: So, how long would you say you barrel raced? HV: Oh, I was probably 15 until, no, I would have been younger than that. Twelve to eighteen. RS: All right. Did you collect anything as a child? HV: No. RS: You were always outside playing, weren’t you? So, let’s talk about your school life. Where did you first attend school? HV: Okay, Lonestar School, two-room, outside toilet. We had one through, let’s see, one through four and then five through eight. RS: Okay, and then from there where did you go? HV: Sapulpa High. RS: To Sapulpa High School. Okay. So, did you, you graduated from Sapulpa, right? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, all right. Did you have any influential teachers that you can recall that might have made an impact on you during that time? HV: No, not in high school. Mr. and Mrs. Sykes (ph) were teachers at Lonestar, and I’d say they were strict, kind, honest and people looked up to them. RS: And, so, what did they teach? What classes did they teach you? HV: The whole thing. RS: Oh, okay. So, they just kind of did it all. HV: Yeah, the lady teacher taught the smaller classes. And then Mr. Sykes (ph) taught the older kids. RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember how you got to school as a youngster? HV: Mom and daddy drove us. A time or two we rode a horse but not often, and quite a few times we’d have to walk home from school. RS: Okay, and how far of a walk was that? HV: Probably two and a half miles. RS: Oh, my goodness. You know kids nowadays would be like what in the world?! So, like, in high school, were you a member of any clubs or organizations? HV: No. RS: Busy on the farm, I’m guessing? HV: Probably, not really, but just, basically, didn’t really fit in, because I was the country girl. So, I really didn’t RS: Weren’t involved as much? HV: Hmm-mmm. In nothing. RS: So, did you enjoy school or? HV: Oh, well, I always made good grades in school. RS: Okay, but you just, would you have rather HV: But not outside, no outside activities at all. RS: Okay, all right. Did you have a favorite subject? HV: Math. RS: Math?! Really? Okay. That’s interesting. HV: Fit right in. RS: That was my least favorite subject. CV: Mine, too. And then we had the sale barn. RS: Yeah, exactly! So, I know you kind of mentioned your house. Can you tell me about the house that you grew up in? Like what it was like. HV: Well, it was just a four-room house and we had a wood stove, but we also had one gas stove, and we had heavy blankets, and momma used to heat bricks to put at our feet in the winter time. RS: Wow! HV: No water. I’ve already told you we had water out of the buckets. RS: So, how long did it take before you had inside plumbing? HV: Fourteen. RS: You were fourteen?! HV: Mmm-hmm. RS: Oh, my goodness. I bet that was like the greatest day ever! HV: Heaven! RS: So, did they have to, so I guess you had an outhouse? HV: Oh, yeah, a two-holer. RS: A two-holer? HV: Have you ever heard of a two-holer? RS: I have not heard of a two-holer. HV: Well, it was a two-holer. RS: We’ll let everybody figure out what that means. Oh, that’s funny! So, then I guess at that time, did they, once you got indoor plumbing, did they build a bathroom in your house? HV: Well, we actually moved into a different house. RS: Oh, okay. HV: Because the house that we had lived in was a rental. And then my mom and dad bought the house, and then put the bathroom in. RS: Okay, so did you have your own room? HV: Yes. RS: You did? Okay. And where did you spend most of your time? HV: Outside. RS: You were mainly out, but that’s the general consensus of probably your generation is we were always outside. HV: Yeah. RS: Okay, so what were mealtimes like in your family? Did you get together every night and sit down to eat dinner? HV: Yes. RS: Okay, so, was your mom a fabulous cook? HV: Oh, she was a great cook. RS: Is that where, I mean, obviously, we all know that you’re a heck of a cook, too. Is that where you HV: Yeah, my mom, and eventually, Jerry’s mom. She was a great cook, too. RS: Did they, did you HV: And my grandmas. RS: Your grandmas. HV: Yeah, both of them. RS: Were you interested when you were young in cooking? Or did they kind of drag you in there and teach you? HV: Oh, I don’t think it was any of a matter of, you were in there and you did whatever mother said. And you did the dishes like she said, so, wasn’t a matter of whether you wanted to do it or not. RS: But on the cooking side of it, do you think that’s where, did you find interest in cooking as a young person or did it take until you got older? I mean, obviously, I know you had to help when you were young, but HV: I don’t really remember, but I think I probably just always enjoyed it. RS: Always enjoyed cooking. Okay. Do you remember having a favorite meal or a favorite recipe? HV: Roast beef. RS: Roast beef, really? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: Yeah, that’s what we liked. RS: And do you cook that same roast beef? HV: Still do. RS: Still do. HV: Day before yesterday. CV: Uh-huh! RS: Okay, well, thinking about, okay, so when did you, do you remember how old you were when you moved to Bristow. HV: I don’t remember how old I was but RS: Roughly, so were you HV: I was married with three kids RS: Okay, so you were married with HV: Well, Sam and Jeff was in the first grade. RS: Okay, so, thinking back to town life around Bristow, do have memories of favorite community activities like Western Heritage Days, county fairs, day camps, stuff like that? Do you have any memories of that? Even if it’s with your kids. HV: Of course, the kids got into sports immediately. But at the sale barn, we had Ben Camp, T. Reid McCollough’s boys, all these kids worked for us starting out. And, so, there was always people around and all of that was fun. And you got involved with the parents in that way. RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember some of the biggest and/or most popular businesses around town? HV: JC Penneys was in the old Root’s building. RS: We had a JC Penney? HV: Oh, you did. CV: It was a big one. HV: Yeah, upstairs and downstairs. Really nice. RS: It was in which building? HV: The Root’s building. RS: I don’t know why I don’t know that. HV: The Root’s building. RS: I should have known that. HV: And Strong’s had a shoe store. Then we had Mrs. Stanford who had the dress shop, and she had nice things, too. CV: And Harvat’s Jewelry. HV: Oh, Harvat’s! Oh, yeah. And they were, and then we had Silver’s Jewelry. We had Anthony’s for a little while. CV: Montgomery Ward. HV: Yeah, we had Montgomery Ward. Oklahoma Tire and Supply. RS: It seems like during my generation everything faded away. There was a lot going on then. HV: Walmart didn’t help. RS: Yeah, it didn’t help anything. Did you have a favorite place to eat out? HV: We didn’t eat out very much. RS: It didn’t sound like you needed to. It sounds like all the cooks were at your house. HV: They probably were. We, basically, ate at home. RS: Always ate at home. HV: Or at the sale barn. RS: So, as far as growing up and as a teenager, do you remember getting to shop for clothes? Did you family make your clothes? HV: You really want me to tell you this? RS: I really want you to tell me. I really do! HV: Okay, so we were in the country. And, so, my dad would buy feed sacks that were the same. And then my mom would make me clothes out of those feed sacks. RS: Are you serious? HV: I’m dead serious. RS: That had to have been terribly uncomfortable, though. HV: Oh, it wasn’t uncomfortable. RS: Did she line them with anything? HV: No, but well, you wash it and it was just like fabric. RS: Well, I guess that’s true. HV: They had some nice fabrics back then. RS: Oh, my goodness. HV: And you did that RS: So, how often would you say you got new clothes? HV: Oh, she was buying that doing that all the time. RS: Oh really? HV: Yeah. RS: So, quite a seamstress, then? HV: Yeah, she was. RS: Wow! And how long would you say that went on? To what age did ever get to go and buy clothes at a store? HV: Well, it really started when I started to high school, I think. Well, I had jeans, you know, because I was riding a horse all the time. That kind of stuff. And I’m sure I had shirts. But for a dress or anything like that, it was a feed sack dress. RS: So, how did you feel about that or did you really know any different? HV: I didn’t really know any different until I got in high school. RS: And then did that HV: And then I knew. RS: Did it make you feel different? HV: I was pretty, I guess I was kind of disgusted with, I’d never been around, everybody was on the same level. And I’d never been around snotty little girls. RS: Right. Because where you came from everyone was HV: Oh yeah, you didn’t think about stuff like that. RS: That’s unfortunate. Do you remember your first family car? What kind of car it was? HV: Oh, we didn’t have a car for a long time. We had a two-ton truck or a pick up. RS: So, always trucks. HV: I think until, gosh I don’t remember. It would have been while we were in Okmulgee. RS: Okay, and who usually took you places? HV: Mom and dad. RS: Both of them. HV: Well, one or the other. RS: One or the other. So, did you get to take any vacations or anything like that at that time? HV: No, you didn’t. RS: Didn’t get to take vacations, huh? Who taught you how to drive? HV: Jerry. RS: Are you serious? HV: Yeah. RS: So, how old were you when he taught you how to drive? HV: Sixteen. RS: Okay, well that’s not as bad. Okay. So, you knew him young then. HV: Sixteen. RS: You knew him when…okay. And do you remember what your first car was? HV: Uh, yeah, Jerry’s dad gave it to us. It was an old Buick that I thought was the ugliest thing in the world! I don’t remember what model it was. RS: Was it big? HV: No, it was little. RS: Oh, it was little! HV: And ugly! RS: Okay. What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV, and if you did, HV: Well, we didn’t have TV. RS: You didn’t even have a TV. HV: Well, until we got electricity. And then in the fourteen, of course, we had Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. And we went to my grandmas, Grandma Johnston’s, and that’s where, I think it was on Tuesday nights, and that’s where all the cousins by the dozens and everybody came. RS: I love it. Tell me again what the show was called. HV: Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. RS: I’ve never heard, I’m pretty familiar with old shows, but I don’t know that one. HV: You’re not that old! RS: Well, I used to watch a lot of old stuff when I was a kid. Do you recall, I know that it took a while to get electric and all that, but do you recall any pivotal events in history that you saw on TV? HV: Well, the most outstanding thing that I saw was the day that John F. Kennedy got murdered. RS: So, you recall actually seeing, watching about that. HV: We were at my aunt’s and seen that on TV. RS: Did you see it live or was it after, broadcast after the fact? HV: I don’t remember. Of course, it was such a constant thing. I don’t remember. I just remember we were there when it came over, well, it came over the broadcast, so evidently it was live. RS: Right. So, do you remember how you felt at the time? HV: Oh, terrible. I loved him. I thought he was a great president. RS: Right, okay. Did you enjoy listening to music? HV: Oh, yeah, country! RS: So, like who were some of your favorite artists? HV: Oh, Ernest Tubb. I can’t think of them right now. All, whoever sang great songs at the Grand Ol’ Opry. RS: Okay. HV: Minnie Pearl. RS: Oh, yeah. Okay. What was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor? HV: Oh, yeah. Dr. Walter Kale (ph). And he was great. Delivered all my kids. Made house calls. Perfect doctor. RS: Those were the days, huh? HV: Yes. RS: Do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything that you experienced growing up or through your lifetime? HV: No, we had the mumps and chicken pox and measles. RS: All the normal. HV: All that stuff. RS: Okay. HV: Yeah, and took our polio shots when they became where you could get them. That was kind of thing you lined up at school and done that. With parents and all. RS: And that’s the one that left the little circle, right, on your arm? Because my mom had one. HV: Yeah. That’s not what that was. RS: That’s not what that was? What was that? HV: That was RS: A different vaccine? CV: Was that the measles? HV: I don’t know. But momma’s was real deep. But mine wasn’t. I can’t remember what it was. RS: Hmm…interesting. Did you attend church growing up? HV: No. RS: You didn’t. Okay. So, tell me what celebrating holidays was like in your family. Was it a big deal? HV: It was a big deal. RS: Okay, so can you tell me about a typical Christmas growing up whenever you were a kid? HV: We usually went to my Grandma Johnston’s and my mom picked up pecans to sell so that we could have Christmas. RS: So, everyone got gifts? HV: Well, we got gifts from my mom and dad, but I mean, my Grandma Johnston was able to give everybody, might be a pair of panties or not very much, but we all got a present. RS: Everyone got a present. Was it a big, did you cook a big meal, I’m guessing? HV: Oh, yeah. My grandmas cooked big meals and everybody got together. And it was a requirement. You didn’t not go. RS: You didn’t not go. Did you celebrate any, were any other holidays a big deal in your family like Fourth of July or Easter or Halloween or anything? HV: Well, at Easter we had Easter egg hunts, but it wasn’t a giant thing with everybody together like over the years, we ended up with lots of people, maybe a hundred people doing all kinds of stuff all the time but, but back when I was young, you couldn’t afford to do that anyway. RS: Right. And it was, so for you for your family HV: Mostly family. RS: And it was mainly Christmas was your big exciting holiday of the year. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? HV: Oh heck, probably a cowboy. RS: A cowboy! With your six-shooter! Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the different jobs you’ve had during your life. Tell me HV: The first thing I did was I worked at a little grocery store. RS: And this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]? HV: Yeah, just about two miles from me. And we had known the man that owned it for all my life. And then, my friend, Frances Carpenter, worked at Bartlett-Collins, so she suggested I go out there, and I got a job. So, I did that for when I had Sammy [Sammy Dean Varner 1/13/1956-5/6/2020]. Got pregnant with John [John DeWayne Varner 3/5/1960], had to quit at that time, six months, you could only work until six months. Had him. Went back to work. And then got pregnant with Jeff [Jeffery Joe Varner 10/9/1962], and by that time, after that, I didn’t go back to work until, until we moved to Okmulgee [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay. And then you helped at the stock yards in Okmulgee [Oklahoma]. HV: Yeah, I ran the office. RS: You ran the office. Okay, and then, I know you told me after this situation with your dad “popping off” and sold the Okmulgee Stock Yards, that he purchased the Mid-America at Bristow. HV: Yes. RS: And you told me 1969 and then you had the first sale in February of ’70? HV: That’s right. RS: And then, so, tell me about the stock yards. HV: Okay, so, it started out, I think we had, it was the worst winter you’ve ever seen. RS: Of course. HV: There was snow everywhere. I heard somewhere there was like twenty welders, and I don’t know, I guess that was right, because we had every welder around here trying to build pens to have our first sale. RS: Because, to understand, when you first bought it, or when your dad first bought it, it wasn’t what it is now. HV: Oh, my gosh, NO! RS: So, a lot of work had to be done. HV: Oh yeah. Forever and ever. RS: Never ending? HV: Never ending. We had only the two front rooms. The two front buildings was all that was there. So, all the pens and the bleachers, everything had to be built, so that what was what we did. RS: So, then you had your first sale in February of ’70. Can you tell me what a typical day was at the sale barn. HV: Well, at the very first, we probably had, well the first sale we had, we had over a thousand head, which we thought was unheard of. And then we had four or five hundred, and then it got to be bigger and bigger. In August 8th of 1970 something, we had the biggest sale we ever had. We had over 3,000 head. The highest market we had ever had in the history, our history. RS: Wow! HV: So, my dad was made Small Businessman of the Year in 1973. RS: 1973. I knew you had mentioned that but I didn’t have the date. HV: And, actually, Tracey Kelly was the one that RS: And that was in Oklahoma, right? HV: Yes. RS: Small Businessman of the Year for Oklahoma in 1973. Well, what an honor. HV: And then in 1975, the British Broadcasting Company done a story on Tom Paxton. Do you know who Tom Paxton was? RS: I don’t. HV: Okay, he was a singer that sang, he was so famous in England. And his mother was still living here. And they came and they done a RS: By here, you mean in the United States or in Bristow? HV: Right here in Bristow. RS: Oh! Okay, okay. HV: But he was a great singer, and for some reason, somehow, we got involved in all this filming. So, they really did a lot of filming of our family. Well, me and Jerry, my Grandma and Grandad Bristol, my Grandma Johnston, the McMillan’s, Lois and Harry. RS: And tell me again what the date, the year of this was? HV: 1975. RS: 1975. So, basically, the story was about him, but it ended up encompassing all of you? HV: All the music with that, yeah. So, we did all this stuff to the music. They had the films there, and they were there on Monday. They had the people riding the horses and all this was great fun. And we had, in fact, we all have, a film of it, but it’s real old. Bill Shattuck went to get this film, and it was at the Bristow Library, and the film was missing. And it’s still missing today. RS: So, there’s no HV: Well, it’s an old RS: Like a reel? CV: Like the old projector type HV: Yeah. RS: So, does this exist? Does anybody have a copy? HV: Yes. RS: Well, that might be something that the historical society would like a copy of, possibly, if there’s a way to do it. HV: There should be a way to do it because we took it over to that place on Sheridan and 71st [Tulsa, Oklahoma] and had it, Jerry had one made for each one of our kids. RS: I’m going to make a note of that because that might be something we would like to have. CV: Do you remember the name of it? HV: It was something, Tom Paxton. Maybe the Tales of the, I really don’t remember the name, Cheryl. RS: As far as a normal day at the stockyards, what did that look like for you? Like, what were your responsibilities working there? HV: Basically, we had horse sales on Monday, Monday nights. You were there early. We helped cook. Tuesdays you did the banking. Wednesday and Thursday, not much. Fridays we had lunch. Saturdays I was always there at 6 o’clock in the morning. We didn’t miss work. Nobody missed work. RS: Not an option. HV: Not an option. You didn’t call in sick. If you were sick enough to die, go ahead and die. CV: You better be dying. RS: I feel like that might be a characteristic that has been lost these days. HV: It has. CV: Not in this family. RS: Well, no, not in this family, but I mean, in general. People don’t have that same work ethic anymore. HV: And, see, I don’t understand that. RS: Yeah, I bet you don’t. HV: My mom and dad, you know, my dad if he told you to get in the truck, you got in the truck. You didn’t go do this or that or RS: Or question it. HV: You got in the truck. RS: Yeah, you just got in the truck. HV: So, I was raised that way, so I don’t understand RS: Any other way than that? HV: A lot of this now. You’re gonna have to go put your head in the corner or I’m going to count to five. Or maybe it’s ten. RS: Or just get in the truck! So, and this is probably a loaded question, because I know you were there a long time, can you remember any particular funny stories or anything that happened at the stock yards that you would want to share? HV: Well, one night, at a horse sale, we were having the sale as usual, and the sale had to be stopped. Why was the sale stopped? Because Jerry had to go out in the back and separate his two young men, John and Jeff. RS: They were fighting? HV: They were fighting! RS: Oh, my goodness! And do we know why they were fighting? HV: I never did know. Too mad to ask. RS: Well, I’m going to hate to see what happened to them once dad broke ‘em up. Oh, my goodness! HV: He just talked to them. In language they understood. RS: Right, right. HV: And let’s see, one time a cow, so my brother was a little short dude, and he was the auctioneer, and a cow jumped up in front of him, and as he, I guess the cow finally got down, and he comes like a telescope and he comes up and looks at the crowd. And it was so funny! I know that’s not funny, gonna be funny there, but it was hilarious. Then one time, we had Mort. Mort was a, Mort Durbin. RS: I hear some, you have some run-ins with skunks. HV: Yeah, that was one of the funnies. RS: Okay, well tell us about that. HV: Okay. Mort [Mort “Mortie” Durbin 9/22/1927-11/14/1985], we had a terrible issue with the skunks. And, so, Mort, one time at almost the end of the sale, as I recall it, and he would get the stuff that you fill pop machine, CO2, and he squirted this skunk out the door and that skunk went off! RS: Oh, my goodness! HV: And there all these people in there, and gagging. We were all, anyhow, that was another story. RS: Yeah, he probably wasn’t high on the list after that, was he? HV: Not for a few days, but he was quite a guy. We liked him. RS: I, also, understand that you and Jerry wrote a book together. HV: Yeah. RS: Can you tell me about that? HV: Yeah, this is the Cowtales & ; amp ; Recipes. We wrote it on Sunday mornings, and we argued probably most of the day whether his words or my words were the best. RS: So, how long did it take to compile this book? HV: Oh, it took a long time. And we tried different ways and never could get anybody, and finally, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] came up with a lady in Chandler [Oklahoma] who is, actually, the one that finally got it done for him. RS: Give me a rough estimate, how many years went into that? HV: Oh, I don’t know. CV: When did you start writing Cowtales? HV: I don’t even know. CV: Because he wrote them every Sunday. HV: Yeah, he wrote every Sunday. RS: And then you just decided to compile them? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: Oh, and he was on the radio with them every Sunday. Or maybe it was Mondays. CV: No, I think it was Sunday at KREK. HV: Yeah, he was on KREK, and also, they ran them in the newspaper. But I think we had to pay to get them in the newspaper. RS: So, this book that you brought, is this something I can take to the historical society for HV: Yes. RS: We would like to preserve that. I think that’s pretty neat. So, before we get off of the stockyards, how long did you guys own and run the stockyards? HV: Just until two years ago. But let me tell you first RS: Okay. HV: I’m going to tell you some stuff. RS: Yeah, no, tell me! HV: So, Todd Hiett, who was our auctioneer, who’s now the Corporation Commissioner, he became a Speaker of the House while he was auctioning. And, then, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] who is my granddaughter, became a representative. But she came back on Saturdays and worked the sale, too. So, those are two of the people that, of course, I’ve got grandkids now that have businesses here, so Bristow has been very good to my family. RS: That’s good. That’s neat. HV: Oh, yeah! And we had great Halloween parties. RS: See, I asked you about Halloween! HV: Well, this was here. RS: Well, let’s hear about it. HV: Okay, so we had, I don’t know how we became like the center of whatever, because we were just plain old country people. But we had, EVERYBODY came. You know, we had the McMillians. We had the Kellys. We had all the people from downtown that had businesses. CV: The Mitchells. HV: The Mitchells. I mean, everybody came. RS: Came to your house? HV: We had one at the house, and then we had some at the sale barn. RS: Okay, so what went on at these? HV: Oh, we had spook houses and everybody dressed up, you know. CV: You had to come in costume HV: Yeah, oh yeah, and everybody did! RS: Well, that sounds like fun. CV: And there was a big dance. There was always a big dance. HV: Yeah. RS: So, how many years did this go on? HV: Oh, we probably done it for four or five years. RS: Well, that sounds like fun! I never got invited. CV: Well, the last one was when me and Jeff was dating. RS: Oh, okay. CV: And that was the last time we had one, and that was in ’82. HV: My dad died in ’82 and then everything kind of RS: Changed? HV: I guess it changed or we just got older or something. But it was a, it was a great place for everybody to come and everybody did! Didn’t matter who you were or what you did. Oh! And one time, so we all, on your birthday, you got dumped in the water tank. CV: You didn’t have a choice. You just went. RS: You didn’t fight it? CV: Well, you could fight, but it didn’t matter. RS: It didn’t matter. HV: Some people, one guy, one time who was just a passer-by, he said that they would dare do that to me. Well, guess what? That dude went in. And, not only that, did you know Lavon Lane? RS: Oh, yeah. HV: She went in! RS: NOOO WAY! HV: Yes, she did! CV: If it was your birthday and you were at the sale barn HV: You went in. CV: It didn’t matter if it was January. RS: Did anybody get a picture of that HV: No. RS: Because I cannot even imagine her being dunked in a tank. HV: And she laughed! RS: Well, good! Oh, that’s funny! HV: Yeah, it was, everybody had fun, and it was all in fun. RS: Yeah. HV: There were a few people that got mad, I guess, but it really didn’t make any difference. RS: It didn’t matter. HV: To the dunkers. RS: That’s funny. CV: Those that had birthdays in January to March, they would even break ice to put you in. RS: Oh, boy! I’d be glad that my birthday was in the summer then! So, you had the sale barn for 51 years? HV: Yes. RS: Fifty-one years. And what made you decide to finally to sell? HV: My kids were ready. RS: Your kids were ready? But you’re still out there, right? HV: Well, I’m still baking the cakes. But I’m not really out there. RS: Okay, but you’re still cooking? HV: I’m still cooking. CV: She cooks lunch for us every day. HV: Another funny story. You know Dr. Chapman. Did you know Benny Chapman? RS: I did not. HV: Okay, so that was their youngest son, and he worked at the sale barn. So, one morning, Dr. Chapman, so it goes, went out to get his shoes, a pair of shoes, out of the garage, and he didn’t have just a pair of shoes, but almost all of his shoes were in the garage with cow manure on them. RS: Oh, no! HV: Benny had worn a different pair all the time, and was Dr. Chapman mad! RS: Because he was trying to go to work, I’m guessing? HV: I’m assuming. RS: But all of his shoes had manure, oh no! HV: Ben had worn numerous. I don’t know how many shoes Dr. Chapman had, but he wore numerous shoes. RS: Oh, my goodness! Let’s talk about Jerry [Jerry Dean Varner 10/30/1936-1/24/2017]. When and where did you first meet him? HV: We met at Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. He was there to rope and I was there to run barrels. RS: So, you didn’t go to school together? HV: No, he went to Pretty Water. RS: Okay. HV: Then, they went to California. Yeah, then we were back in school together, but we hadn’t met yet. RS: Oh, okay. So, in Sapulpa is where you met Jerry. And can you tell me his full name? HV: Jerry Dean Varner. RS: Okay, and I have his birth date as 10/30/1936? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. So, what was your first impression of him when you saw him? HV: I thought he was the cutest thing alive on a horse. RS: So, did you actually meet him at a rodeo or? HV: Yes, well, at a roping. RS: At a roping, okay. HV: He was sitting there with his Uncle John, so I come up and say, can I buy you a pop? RS: So, you made the first move? HV: I believe I did! CV: And stayed that way. RS: That’s good! Can you tell us about your engagement? Did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period? HV: I don’t think we really got engaged. RS: You just got married. HV: We just eventually, we dated, he was the only one I ever dated. RS: Really?! Awe. So, how long did you date before you got married? HV: Well, we were sixteen and so that was, and then we were almost eighteen. RS: When you got married. HV: We were seniors in high school. RS: So, you got married when you were still in school? HV: Mm-hmm. RS: Oh, wow! Okay. What did your parents think about that? Were they okay with it? HV: I don’t think, well, they were probably used to him by then. You know, we were always together. RS: Always together. HV: I don’t think my dad was interested in me getting married. RS: At all or? HV: At all. I don’t think momma cared. RS: Where did you get married at? HV: In my mom and dad’s house. RS: Okay, in Sapulpa? Okay. Can you tell us anything about your wedding, what your wedding was like? HV: It was just very simple. I wore a suit. Jerry’s, my grandparents were there. Jerry’s grandparents were there. Jerry’s mom and dad, of course. Jerry’s boss, who was Johnny somebody-or-other, was his best man. And my Aunt Lila (ph) was my maid of honor. RS: Oh, okay. What were your, especially since you were young, what were your early years of marriage like? HV: Not always good. RS: So, expand on that. What do you mean? HV: Well, one time, okay, so, we were in a little house, and Jerry, for some reason, got mad at his aftershave, or this squirt stuff, this soap. And, so, he squirts it all in the bathtub, and I ain’t gonna clean it out. And he isn’t either. I think it stayed that way for about three or four days. We finally had to break up and take a bath. RS: So, you were both stubborn, huh? HV: We were both stubborn, yeah. RS: So, how old were you when you, so how long were you married before you had kids? HV: One year. RS: One year. HV: One year and one week. RS: So, what was it like for you as a young mother? What were some of your challenges? HV: I really didn’t have any because I had lots of help. My mom was great help. Jerry’s mom, you know, when I went to work, with Sammy, momma kept him. RS: So, you had a very supportive family? HV: Oh yeah, always. RS: Well, that always helps. HV: On both sides. RS: So, in the early days was it like financially a struggle? HV: Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were pretty broke. RS: Paycheck to paycheck? HV: Yeah, yeah. CV: Now when did Jerry go to, was it the navy, army? HV: Army. CV: Army. HV: When Sammy was about two. RS: Okay, well, let’s talk about your kids since you mentioned, tell me how many kids you have and what their full names are. HV: Okay. Sammy Dean Varner [1/13/1956-5/6/2020] and he was born in ’56. RS: Okay, I have January 13, 1956. Is that right? HV: Yeah. RS: Okay. HV: He was, my dad LOVED him and spoiled him. Probably the only big falling outs we would have had would have been over Sammy and my dad. He, anyway. His first three words…wanna hear it? RS: What? HV: Damn, hell, shitzes. RS: Say that again. HV: Damn, hell, shitzes. CV: And that was passed down. RS: Oh, my goodness! That’s funny. HV: I don’t know if you’re gonna put all this on there. RS: Oh, it’s all going in there. But, this is the kind of stuff that you family’s going to love to preserve. The funny stories, all of it. The good, bad, you know. That’s what matters. Okay, so, what about your next child? HV: Okay, so then, we had Johnny DeWayne Varner, of course. RS: And I have him as March 5, 1960? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. HV: Okay, so he was the middle child, and really, very active, and not at all like Sammy. He was bouncy off the counters and everywhere. But, he was real kind, sweet and I dressed him like a girl for a while because I thought I was going to have a girl. You know, it was going to be boy, girl. And, so, momma had made all these pretty clothes. My aunt had sewed all these booty things, and the little sweaters, like they used to do. But anyway, it didn’t happen. He was a boy. And he had hair, real pretty hair when he was born. And Kay had Debbie at the same time, and she had no hair. RS: Isn’t that the way? HV: Yeah, so, and then after that, we had Jeff, and Jeff was a rotten little guy. RS: And, so, what’s his full name? HV: Jeffery Joe Varner. RS: And I have his birth date as 10/9/1962? HV: Yes. RS: Okay. So, tell us a about Jeff. HV: Okay, so, Jeff had, when he was little, everything had to match. The little Buster, no I believe it was Buster Browns or something, at that time, we were, I guess momma, momma probably bought most of the clothes for everybody. But he had his little shirt that had to match the pants that had to match the socks. And, he was, he was just always a good kid until he got to be a in high school. RS: Something happens when they turn about seventeen. HV: Yeah, so, one night I was sitting up waiting on him, and I waited and I waited and I waited and I waited. And he finally came in, and I said, son, where were you? And he was over there at that girl’s house, and I said, well, what did her parents say you being over there so long? He said, they weren’t home. RS: Oh, no! CV: That was not me. HV: It wasn’t. RS: Uh oh! HV: Oh, shoot! Anyway. RS: Okay, so maybe I should have asked what were your challenges raising your children when they were teenagers. Not when they were kids. HV: I don’t think we really had, I mean, my mom and dad were strict with us. Jerry, if he told the kids to jump on this table, they would have. And he wasn’t mean. It was just this is what you did. RS: An element of respect. HV: Yeah, I mean, you know, you didn’t challenge. RS: Right. HV: One time John, and I think it was, was it Jeff and Sammy got into it. Jeff said to Sam, Sam was the smallest even though he was the oldest, and Jeff said, well, if you don’t like what I say, just whip my ass. And Sammy said, I would have a long time ago if I could have. CV: Can you imagine three boys? RS: Oh, and that was going to be one of my questions was what were the challenges of raising three boys, but it sounds like you had a few anyway. HV: Well, a few, but they still got along. RS: Good boys. Hard working boys. So, how many grandchildren do you have? HV: Seven. RS: Seven grandchildren. Do you want to name all of them? HV: Sure. RS: Okay. HV: Pokey. His name is Sloan. Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Moo [Melynadee], Rayne. RS: Okay, and then how many great-grandkids do you have? HV: Fourteen. RS: Oh, my goodness. That’s a lot. HV: Yeah. RS: And you feed everybody, don’t you? HV: Yeah. RS: That just blows my mind. But I think that’s why you’re a spry lady. You stay busy all the time, don’t you? HV: Well, I used to. If it wasn’t for my girls, I wouldn’t. I have mentioned our parties. We had Christmas parties for my whole family. Not only did it include my family, my cousins, it took Melody’s family, her cousins, her kids, Cheryl’s mother and dad, friends, like the Beaches. Used to be they were friends for a long time, of course, they’ve passed away. But anyhow, so we’d have it out at the VFW. RS: So, how many people are we talking, probably, maybe? HV: Maybe 150? CV: 150 at least. HV: And we bought presents for anybody 12 and under. And Santa was always there. And it was the same Santa. CV: Every year. HV: It was the same Santa, and of course, now that Santa can’t do this anymore, we had quit. But we had quit during covid anyway. But Joey, at one time, we went somewhere, and somebody was talking about Santa, and Joey said yeah, but that’s not the real Santa. Because our Santa was the real Santa. And it was Joe Sam [Joe Sam Vassar]. RS: That’s awesome! HV: And he did it every year. Every year. RS: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that I have not thought to ask you about that’s on your list? HV: No, I think that’s it. RS: Okay. Well, I’ve still got a few more questions, so, and these might make you think a little bit so. So, be ready. What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? HV: Invention? Well, it sure as hell wouldn’t be computers. RS: I didn’t say, I didn’t say your favorite. The most important. HV: Electricity. RS: Well, I mean, for you, I bet that was the best thing to have. HV: Oh! It was! RS: Okay. How do you feel the world is different now than whenever you were young, like a kid? HV: I don’t think people are respectful anymore. I don’t like attitudes with the kids at school. Are you wanting the negative crap that I’m going to say. RS: I want you to be honest what, you know, what your opinion is of how things are different, and maybe, how you would like them to be better. HV: I just think that the family values have really gotten screwed up, and I think that we need to get back to the basic family togetherness. I don’t like drugs and all of that stuff, although, I’ve had that in my family. I don’t think people respect each other enough. RS: So, you, basically, think if we could get back to some of the old-fashioned values that it might correct some of the stuff going on right now? HV: Oh, I’m sure. RS: Yeah. So, along that line, what do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem and how do you think that can be solved? HV: I think there’s a lot of corruption. I think that we spend, I think our senators, representatives and all those people have been spending way too much time making bills. I think they ought to go up there and whatever problems there are, solve a few and go home and go back to work and do something else and not just make a total living off of being a representative. And I’m talking about, not only state but nationwide. I think that we’ve got a whole bunch of people, especially in Washington that have made boo-koos of money, that they’re rich. How did you get rich on $50,000 a year or sixty or seventy-five? Ain’t no way, honey! So, you know, I’m pretty plain spoken, but that’s the way I feel. RS: That’s why we appreciate you. HV: That’s the way I feel. RS: I completely respect your opinion. How have historic events affected you? Say, for example, thinking back to, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, Covid, maybe any natural disasters. Can you think of any particular historic event that maybe really affected your life? HV: Well, recently, of course, it was Covid. And I think that is the most disrupted, stupid thing that history has put us through. I don’t believe it. I know there was Covid out there, but I think that a lot of it had to do with the way they were treated. And I think you can’t lay on your back with Covid and everything that you seen, the patients were there, they were on their back. RS: Did it affect your family personally? HV: It affected our sale barn. RS: Okay. HV: We had to mark it off and people had to stand so far apart. Then that guy can only come in while his cattle were selling, and it was crazy. RS: A nightmare. HV: That was a nightmare. CV: We had to shut the catwalk completely down because people would gather on the catwalk, so we had to just shut that down. It was crazy. RS: So, did you have any family members that had Covid or was sick or passed away from it? HV: Well, Jerry passed away in ’17, but well, Sammy was in the hospital during Covid and we didn’t even get to go see him. And he laid there for three weeks. You think that don’t kill a person. RS: Oh, my goodness. Because he had Covid or just because he was there for another reason. HV: No, he was there. He was there for his heart. RS: Okay. HV: Sammy was a people person, and he died by himself. RS: Awful. HV: That was a bad deal. RS: Yeah, that’s rough. HV: The only other thing was John F. Kennedy’s murder. I thought that was, and I still think that there’s, there’s something there. Just same as I think now what happened last week. There’s something there. RS: And tell us what happened last week. HV: Well, when Trump [Donald J. Trump] got his ear shot. RS: Okay, because I feel like that’s going to be a pivotal, going forward, a pivotal point in our history, too. HV: I think so. With the person, they already knew this guy was up on the roof, and then they said guns down, and they went ahead and shot him. There’s just a whole bunch of RS: Unanswered questions, and I think what’s going to be interesting about this is, since we have your interview on tape of the beginnings of their investigation of it, it will be interesting to see in the future how it ends up playing out. HV: Right. RS: Okay, so is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations? HV: Love your family. RS: That simple. Love your family. Okay, I like that. HV: That’s it. RS: And before we close, I just want to ask, too, because I know you’re like the matriarch of the family, and I think as Cheryl said, everyone comes to you for business advice and life advice, I like that you’re as simple as love your family. HV: Thank you. RS: I like it. Is there anything you would like to add that we forgot to talk about or that I failed to ask you about? Cheryl, can you think of anything? CV: Anytime that we all work together, I mean we all work together, and when we go on vacations, we would all go vacation together. We were always together. RS: Together. So, CV: Very close-knit family, very close. RS: Well, and I think that lends to your advice of love your family. Having that strong family unit, support, that’s what we are lacking, I think. HV: And, see, what I don’t understand is, I have a friend, kind of, that isn’t, her kids are not coming to see her like they should. And I don’t know where that break down is. RS: Right. HV: I don’t know what causes, I don’t know what causes that. You know, I don’t know if it’s the mother, or the kids, or what. I don’t understand what makes the kids not go to their mother. RS: Right. HV: But we were raised, see, that way. We were raised to respect and love your mother. RS: Well, I think you can attest to the fact that she’s a strong woman that is the glue of the family. CV: I’ve always told her that if she didn’t like the way me and Melody turned out, it’s her fault, because she had us longer than our parents ever had us. If they don’t like us, it’s because of her example. RS: Oh, gosh! Well, I think that is pretty much it for me today. We appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum and we appreciate you and thank you very much! HV: Thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0060_Helen_Marie_Varner.xml OHP-0060_Helen_Marie_Varner.xml
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Helen Marie Varner
Description
An account of the resource
Helen Marie shares about her young life growing up in the country, her beloved family and her 51-year history with the Mid-America Stockyards.
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OHP-0060
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2024/07/18
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audio
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e2af5d8a9f75a066f2c8f0fa8a23daed
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Title
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Family Histories
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Oral History
Subject
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Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Ed Cadenhead
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Herbert Abraham
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0045A_Herbert_Abraham.xml
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5.4 May 23, 1979 OHP-0045A Herbert Abraham OHP-0045A 0:00-41:41 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Herbert Abraham Ed Cadenhead 1:|10(11)|24(10)|40(9)|63(5)|74(8)|83(12)|94(10)|110(2)|120(8)|129(11)|142(9)|153(14)|169(6)|186(9)|200(5)|210(5)|222(10)|232(5)|245(14)|257(9)|273(3)|282(8)|291(8)|307(6)|323(8)|337(2)|348(1)|358(4)|370(11)|380(1)|388(9)|397(4)|408(14)|416(5)|434(1)|443(17)|454(6)|466(2)|477(10)|489(5)|504(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0045A Abraham, Herbert.mp3 Other audio 1 Lebanese Settling in Bristow EC: Herbert Abraham. Okay. I, one of the questions as an outsider I've had is, how'd the Lebanese end up here? HA: How did they end up here? Well, originally Joe Abraham was the founding Lebanese settler in this community. He had a brother named Useph Abraham and Ed Abraham. Ed Abraham was a well-known merchant, had one of the largest stores in Bristow for many, many years. During the Depression, he accumulated probably a hundred thousand dollars in outstanding accounts that his various customers owed to him. He was known as the poor man's friend, and he never turned a man down, regardless of the man's financial standing, who needed groceries. Herbert tells of his father, Joe Abraham, and how he came to Bristow. boomer ; Ed Abraham ; Governor Charles N. Haskell ; Governor Robert L. Williams ; Joe Abraham ; sooner ; statehood ; The Great Depression ; Useph Abraham Lebanese Settlers 154 Joe Abraham's Business Ventures HA: I, no, I'm, I'm not sure who it was there. But anyway, these fellas from Oklahoma City who were active in Oklahoma politics would come to Bristow and they always called on Joe Abraham. He was active in making Oklahoma a state, and he settled in Chandler to start with and was there, I believe, married in Chandler and then came to Bristow and was married to Fannie Abraham, who came from Lone Jack, Missouri. EC: What business was he in? HA: So how's that? EC: What business was he in? HA: Who's that? EC: Joe. Joe, yeah. HA: Joe was in the cotton business. He had a cotton oil mill, made cotton seed cake, had seven gins. EC: I mean, when he, when he came to Bristow? HA: Oh, when he first came to Bristow, he was a peddler. He came, he, when he first landed in New York City, he of course was not married, and just had enough money to pack a suitcase with various items that would be sold to people in outer lying districts. And he walked as a peddler from New York City to, to Philadelphia and, and some, and going out of New York, he, he just said he said, where's, which way is Philadelphia? Herbert talks about Joe Abraham's business ventures, such as being a peddler on his way to Bristow. He also had several businesses while in Bristow and greatly contributed to Bristow's economy. Bristow Gas Company ; Chandler ; Claude Freeland ; Continental Refinery ; cotton ; cotton gin ; cotton oil mill ; cotton seed cake ; Fannie Abraham ; Frank Barnes ; Havana Tip ; Joe Abraham ; Leon Thevenin ; Lone Jack (Mo.) ; New York City ; peddler ; Philadelphia ; Wilcox Refinery business ventures 434 Lebanese Families EC: When did his brothers come? HA: Well Ed came, I don't know exactly how many years after dad came, maybe five or six years, not very many years, and then, and Useph later came . And Ed married Nelly Campbell, a local native of Oklahoma. And… EC: I don't know whether you said did, when did Joe come to Bristow? HA: Well, he came to Bristow in about 1889, I believe, near that, near that time. And… EC: Was there any, you know, there, there's some other Lebanese families that settled here. Was there any connection between them and Abraham's? HA: Well, yes, Joe Abraham had a sister named Esthier (ph). And Esthier (ph) is the word that comes from Eastern Star, from the book of Esther out of the Bible. And many of father, my father's sisters were, had biblical names. One was named Hannah well known biblical name, and dad's name was Salim (ph), which is the Celtics of Jerusalem as Salem. And Salem was the, and the original king of that taught the king of Salem, the king of peace was Jerusalem, was that city when the original Abraham landed in, in the Holy Land. Herbert talks about when Joe Abraham's brothers came to Bristow and many other Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Bill Shibley ; Deeb Slyman ; Dolly Joseph ; Don Abraham ; Ed Abraham ; Ella Slyman ; Frank Corey ; George Joseph ; George Slyman ; Jeanette Abraham ; Joe Abraham ; Lebanese ; Mayor of Bristow ; Nelly Campbell ; Paul Joseph ; Useph Abraham 691 Oldest Buildings EC: Change the subject a little. What, what are some, what are the oldest buildings still standing in Bristow to your knowledge? HA: Well, at the present, one of the oldest would be the the Rexall Drug Store. It was constructed, I believe, by Joe Abraham in 1903, and another rather old building next to it would be the Anthony Building that was constructed by Joe Abraham in 1912. And those are, 1903 is a rather old building. EC: Yes. Yes. What about let's see, there's a Stone building there? HA: There, yes. AH Stone, that's an old building. I, that's maybe have a, maybe it has a head marker on it tells the date. I don't know when it was constructed and I don't know whether AH Stone built that building or not. Herbert remembers some of the oldest buildings around Bristow. AH Stone ; Anthony Building ; Episcopal Church ; Joe Abraham ; Rexall Drug Store ; Stone Building oldest buildings 832 The Depression EC: How did, how did the Depression affect? HA: How did the what? EC: How, how did the Depression affect your family? HA: Well, Joe Abraham died in 1927 and the, and the Depression struck at, at the time when, if I may say so, that I had to take over. EC: Right. HA: Which was and I had probated the estate myself. And ,we, as other people, we were land poor. We, in a sense, we were broke. We went for five years without paying our taxes. Many, many people in Oklahoma went for five years without paying any ad valorem tax. There was a moratorium on the payment of taxes with the starting of the moratorium on the World War debts, which were saddled on Germany. And Germany could not pay and did not pay. And with the moratorium on the war debts, we were headed, well, heading into the depression days. So with the closing of the banks there just wasn't any money. We operated with scrip, with the Chamber of Commerce was our bank. Our bank was a Chamber of Commerce we operated with scrip, and we were short of money. Herbert remembers the effects of The Depression on his family and the community. He talks about no one having money or paying taxes and how cheap cotton, corn and wheat was. Ad valorem tax ; Chamber of Commerce ; Joe Abraham ; scrip ; The Depression The Depression 993 Childhood EC: In thinking about just your memory as a child, mainly. Are there any particular things about life as a child in Bristow that stands out? HA: Oh, yes. We used to go to the Star Theater for 5 cents, and that was to start with, the kids here didn't know what a picture was. We didn't know what a a moving picture was at all, and most of us were afraid to even have our pictures taken. We were afraid of the little red canary or the little blue and green canary, so we went to the picture show for 5 cents. We bought all of the popcorn we wanted for 5 cents, and we sat on the front row, all the kids. And the first the first 10 or 15 seats were just filled with kids. And we could buy watermelons for a nickel a piece, and ice cream cones, milkshakes, haircuts a quarter. And we as children, we had everything we needed and a lot more. Herbert remembers having everything he needed as a child. He remembers going to the movie theater, riding horses, buying watermelon and ice cream cones. Bill Smith ; blacksmith ; Hooker Groom ; Star Theater childhood 1123 Ku Klux Klan EC: Do you remember the Ku Klux Klan being in Bristow? HA: I remember when Jack Walton was governor of Oklahoma and the Ku Klux Klan was rather rampant, and I knew some of the Klansmen in those days and many of them were leading citizens in our community, and I was not interested enough nor old enough to be deeply interested in the Klan's work or what it did. But I do remember the Klan and I remember seeing Klansman. Herbert recalls the Ku Klux Klan being rather prominent and knowing some of the Klansmen even though he had no interest in what they were doing. Cushing ; Governor Jack Walton ; Joe Abraham ; Ku Klux Klan ; Shamrock ; Stone House Ku Klux Klan 1237 Oil Boom EC: Mm-hmm. What what effect did the oil was the oil boom, the biggest boom to hit? HA: Oh yes. The oil boom definitely was the biggest boom that ever hit this town. EC: What kind of effect did it have you just remember as a... HA: Well to start with, there were no paved streets in Bristow and it didn't have large trucks in those days when the boom first started and the mud was over ankle deep and you even walking across the street. We didn't know what jaywalking was. We just walked and they parked cars in the middle of the street. And there were all kinds of teamsters. They, they had wonderful horses and, and, and they would haul most of the oil field equipment, the pipe and the tanks and the tools were hauled by horses. Am Frierson (Ambrose Frierson), a well-known citizen now, deceased, was one of the early truckers in this community, and he did well in trucking. Later became an oil man and his family now has oil. But the oil boom definitely was paramount in Bristow's history. Herbert recalls the oil boom being paramount in Bristow's history. Ambrose Frierson ; Arbuckle ; Bartlesville ; BB Jones ; Boots Jones ; Depew ; Drumright ; Dutcher ; Jones sand ; Layton sand ; M Jones ; Midcontinent field ; oil boom ; oil wells ; Oklahoma Natural Gas Company ; paved streets ; RL Jones ; Shamrock ; teamsters ; Wilcox sand oil boom 1411 Life as a Teenager EC: What, What did you do as a kid, you know, teenager? What was the typical, what'd you do for fun? What kind of life did you lead, you know, kind of thing that... HA: Well, we first, we. EC: Kind of thing you wouldn't wanna tell your kids about? HA: Well, we did…we did a lot of things in those days that a lot of kids do now. We had horses. Some of us started out with jennies. We started out just like other kids. We had skates and later a tricycle and later a bicycle, and later came the automobile. And, and we had horses and, and skating rinks. We did everything that all the kids do today and a lot more, too. We played Go Sheepy Go, and sometimes we'd go and didn't come back. Herbert remembers riding horses and jennies as a teenager. He also remembers having a tricycle, bicycle and then an automobile. Go Sheepy Go ; horses ; jennies ; skating life as a teenager 1463 Bootleggers & ; Bank Robbers EC: I was, I was thinking somebody told me that you, about some bootlegger that used to live here. HA: Oh, you, EC: Was bootlegging. HA: Oh, bootlegging was, next to the oil industry, was the biggest industry in town. Bootlegging was a way that many, many families, families I'm speaking now, and some of their children, the children of the old-time bootleggers, I don't know whether I should mention any names or not, but we had some bootleggers that were considered probably among some of the best liked citizens. I started to say best respected, but they were respected bootleggers. Some of 'em took more preachers fishing than anybody else in town. Herbert recalls bootlegging being big business in Bristow. He also remembers various bank robbers and baseball players. bank robbers ; baseball ; bootlegger ; dance hall ; Hammond Vickers ; oil boom ; Palm Confectionery ; Pretty Boy Floyd ; Punk Corey ; Ralph Corey ; Roy Brandon ; Smooch Jones bank robbers ; baseball players ; bootleggers 1681 Politics EC: Yeah. What about politics? Have there been any interesting politics in Bristow? Anybody? I know they had the elections all the time, but any of 'em real hotly contested? HA: Well the, as I recall, at one time, Bristow had the streets filled with the political groups. And the question was, well, where were we going to have the the county seat? Would it be in Bristow or Sapulpa? So there was a real hot election, and of course Sapulpa won, but Bristow was in the big middle of that, and we, of course won the county seat here. Herbert tells about Bristow's streets being filled with political groups during the time they were having an election to decide where the county seat would be located. Bill Cheatham ; Bristow Newspaper ; congress ; county seat ; democrats ; Ed Mackensen ; Judge Charles Oliver Beaver ; politics ; Sapulpa county seat ; politics 1757 Agriculture EC: Well just let your memory run. What are some of the things that you know, you remember about Bristow that maybe nobody else knows or kind of things that stand out in your mind about life in Bristow? HA: Well, as I recall it, on Saturday you could walk up Main Street and see nearly all of the farmers that lived within trading area of Bristow. And most I knew most of the farmers because I had weighed cotton at the cotton gins for dad. And, also, we had a number of farms and just my business to know them, and I knew the farmers and, and we, we would visit and stop and, and take out time to talk. And it was a lot of sociability among the people in those days. Herbert talks in depth about the importance of agriculture to Bristow, including cotton, cattle and peanuts. Bigpond Family ; blackjack trees ; cattle ; cotton ; cotton gins ; farmers ; housing ; humus ; Indians ; over grazing ; peanuts ; Tiger Family ; trading ; Wells Grocery 2259 Black Community EC: Change the subject again. Was there a black community here all along? HA: Oh yes. We had Lincoln Heights, which was on up by the standpipe on the, the west side of town. And that was the original colored community. And we had some wonderful colored citizens in this area. We still have them. And the colored community later, it was moved to the east side of Bristow and we call it the East Side now on East 12th Street and East 11th Street. And there are many old original families that are still here and there. Herbert recalls the black community was located, originally, in the Lincoln Heights area and then moved to East 12th area. Alfonso Farmer ; Chuck Farmer ; Jake Roberts ; Joe Abraham ; Lincoln Heights ; McKinley Shoals ; Roland Combs ; Slick ; Standpipe Hill ; Wilson Family black community 2386 Indians EC: What about Indians? Did Indians, full bloods, I suppose, live in Bristow, or did they stay out from town? HA: Very few Indians stayed, lived in Bristow. A few, Jay Clinton, lived here at one time, and then there was a a member of the Tiger family that lived here. And not too many Indians lived in the city of Bristow. EC: Was there prejudice or discrimination against Indians? HA: Never. Has there been any prejudice or discrimination against an Indian nor a Negro in this community. Yeah, I know, nor any other nationality. Never have I known of any prejudice. Herbert remembers that there weren't too many Indian families that lived in the town of Bristow. He also felt there was no discrimination or prejudice shown towards any nationality. discrimination ; Indians ; Jay Clinton ; prejudice ; Tiger Family Indians 2445 School System EC: Mm-hmm. What about the school system here? Has it been adequate all along compared to other schools? HA: Yes, we, we've had a wonderful school system and I believe we've got the best school system today that we've ever had. We have a superintendent who's active. He's forward thinking. He's brought us a brand new school system. And they've got a wonderful new school building here, two of them. And, primarily, I think we can give him credit for that. We have an outstanding school system. EC: Well, you and your brother and sisters all went to school here. HA: Yes, we all went to school here. EC: And you have good memories of it because HA: Oh yes. EC: Overall. HA: Oh, yes. At Bristow has always had a top-grade school. EC: Well, let me think what I… Herbert speaks very highly of the school system in Bristow. school system school system MP3 In this 1979 interview with Herbert Abraham, he talks in depth about the Lebanese community and his father, Joe Abraham, and his life and contribution to Bristow's history. He also recalls his childhood growing up in Bristow, the Ku Klux Klan, bootlegging, agriculture, the black community and the schools. EC: Herbert Abraham. Okay. I, one of the questions as an outsider I' ; ve had is, how' ; d the Lebanese end up here? HA: How did they end up here? Well, originally Joe Abraham was the founding Lebanese settler in this community. He had a brother named Useph Abraham and Ed Abraham. Ed Abraham was a well-known merchant, had one of the largest stores in Bristow for many, many years. During the Depression, he accumulated probably a hundred thousand dollars in outstanding accounts that his various customers owed to him. He was known as the poor man' ; s friend, and he never turned a man down, regardless of the man' ; s financial standing, who needed groceries. So Ed, during the depression days, as all others, went through a period when people could not pay their debts. They did not pay him, and he, in turn, could not pay many of the people who he purchased goods from that the bills were not to be paid until later in the fall after the crops were made. So Ed went out of business and Useph Abraham was here and was also in business in the oil business. He later went back to Lebanon. But the question as to how the Lebanese got started, Joe Abraham. EC: Joe was the first one. HA: Yes. EC: Okay. How did he end up in Bristow? HA: Well, he first settled in Oklahoma long before statehood. He was not a sooner. He was a boomer. A boomer was a fellow that was for statehood, and some of the rest of them didn' ; t want statehood. His dad did want Oklahoma to become a state and was active with some of the early settlers. And the first governor of Oklahoma, Governor (Robert L.) Williams, I believe. EC: Was, it was (Charles N.) Haskell? HA: Was it Haskell or Williams? EC: So, you know, you know more about... HA: I, no, I' ; m, I' ; m not sure who it was there. But anyway, these fellas from Oklahoma City who were active in Oklahoma politics would come to Bristow and they always called on Joe Abraham. He was active in making Oklahoma a state, and he settled in Chandler to start with and was there, I believe, married in Chandler and then came to Bristow and was married to Fannie Abraham, who came from Lone Jack, Missouri. EC: What business was he in? HA: So how' ; s that? EC: What business was he in? HA: Who' ; s that? EC: Joe. Joe, yeah. HA: Joe was in the cotton business. He had a cotton oil mill, made cotton seed cake, had seven gins. EC: I mean, when he, when he came to Bristow? HA: Oh, when he first came to Bristow, he was a peddler. He came, he, when he first landed in New York City, he of course was not married, and just had enough money to pack a suitcase with various items that would be sold to people in outer lying districts. And he walked as a peddler from New York City to, to Philadelphia and, and some, and going out of New York, he, he just said he said, where' ; s, which way is Philadelphia? And they showed him, he says, where' ; s the railroad track? And they showed him the railroad track says, why are you going on the railroad tracks? He says, well, he says, I can' ; t get lost. And he said, if I get, if I get tired of walking on the ties, I' ; ll walk on the rails. So he went from New York City by foot and came west. And as he traveled, he made friends and he, he never lost a friend. He was always anxious to make a friend and had good merchandise that I bet many of the old timers around Chandler, some of ' ; em are still there now. And they said, well now one thing about Joe Abraham, he had good merchandise, and he would come with his pack and stay all night at our house. And finally got enough money to buy a horse and and a buggy. And he increased his stock of goods and and, and was quite a trader around Chandler for two or three years. And then he came to Bristow where he was married to Fannie Abraham and opened a, a small store here in Bristow. And he grew as Bristow grew and was instrumental in, in financing some of the first industries in Bristow, if you would call them industries. There was a glass plant here at one time. He opened a cigar factory here at one time and called it the Havana Tip. And he also owned the, bought the Bristow Gas Company from Claude Freeland, and I believe, Frank Barnes might have been an instrumental in it. And he accumulated a little money and would trade with the Indians and the local people. He invested his money in land. Land was cheap, of course, and the Indians were afraid that there wouldn' ; t be enough white people to buy the land. And he was afraid there wouldn' ; t be enough land for the white people. So he just bought land and, and accumulated five or six thousand acres of land during his lifetime. And was instrumental in opening the refinery. Wilcox later the Wilcox Refinery, but it was first the Continental Refinery. A man named (Leon) Thevenin, who was a Frenchman, knew something about refining and the Bristow refinery was open and he had a one fourth interest in it and later sold that interest. I think I mentioned that he opened a glass factory. And he had three strings of standard tools and drilled many gas wells around in the neighborhood of Bristow to supply gas to the Bristow Gas Company, which company was later sold to the, another company and then it became the Oklahoma Natural. And of course, his family was always instrumental in helping him along in the store. As children he would, he would teach us how to clerk and cut salt meat and sack sugar and rice and beans and, and dig, serve, gas service lines all over Bristow. EC: When did his brothers come? HA: Well Ed came, I don' ; t know exactly how many years after dad came, maybe five or six years, not very many years, and then, and Useph later came . And Ed married Nelly Campbell, a local native of Oklahoma. And-- EC: I don' ; t know whether you said did, when did Joe come to Bristow? HA: Well, he came to Bristow in about 1889, I believe, near that, near that time. And-- EC: Was there any, you know, there, there' ; s some other Lebanese families that settled here. Was there any connection between them and Abraham' ; s? HA: Well, yes, Joe Abraham had a sister named Esthier (ph). And Esthier (ph) is the word that comes from Eastern Star, from the book of Esther out of the Bible. And many of father, my father' ; s sisters were, had biblical names. One was named Hannah well known biblical name, and dad' ; s name was Salim (ph), which is the Celtics of Jerusalem as Salem. And Salem was the, and the original king of that taught the king of Salem, the king of peace was Jerusalem, was that city when the original Abraham landed in, in the Holy Land. EC: Well now let, let' ; s see. I heard somebody told me that there was somebody else from the same village in Lebanon. I think it was, came to Bristow. HA: There was a man named Bill Shibley who came later, quite later. Bill told me that he was an orphan boy and that dad' ; s mother reared him. Bill was of course, mayor of Bristow, not long ago. And there' ; s a Corey, a man named Frank Corey, was a Lebanese who was married to Joe' ; s sister, Esthier (ph). Another man named George Joseph, the Joseph family is here now, had a boy named Paul Joseph. And Paul has a sister named Dolly Joseph. They' ; re all Lebanese. And Useph Abraham had a boy named Don Abraham, and also a, a daughter named Jeanette. And Jeanette is here now recently from, from Lebanon, and her husband was killed in the recent war there. And a son, I believe, was killed or injured. And she' ; s making, she' ; s, she' ; s here visiting now, and there were many other Lebanese families. The Elias' ; s-- EC: Right. HA: Was Elias was here, and Saab family named Saab. EC: Was there any reason that they, what about Slyman? HA: And Yes, Slyman was here. Deeb Slyman and Ella Slyman. Deeb Slyman was a well-known merchant for many, many years in Bristow and has a wife here now, Mrs. Slyman. She lives here in Bristow. She has recently returned from Lebanon where she was there. She went there to take care of her, of her sister, who was, who' ; s now deceased. And then she returned here now. And there are many Slyman children. And there was a, another Slyman boy named George Slyman, who died early, and he had several children. I can' ; t recall all of their names, and they' ; re business people now in this area here now. EC: Change the subject a little. What, what are some, what are the oldest buildings still standing in Bristow to your knowledge? HA: Well, at the present, one of the oldest would be the the Rexall Drug Store. It was constructed, I believe, by Joe Abraham in 1903, and another rather old building next to it would be the Anthony Building that was constructed by Joe Abraham in 1912. And those are, 1903 is a rather old building. EC: Yes. Yes. What about let' ; s see, there' ; s a Stone building there? HA: There, yes. AH Stone, that' ; s an old building. I, that' ; s maybe have a, maybe it has a head marker on it tells the date. I don' ; t know when it was constructed and I don' ; t know whether AH Stone built that building or not. EC: And let' ; s see, what about the, the Episcopal, the old Episcopal church building? The Christian science... HA: The old Episcopal church building on west seventh street, I believe. That' ; s one of the oldest buildings, one of the oldest buildings in town, that still remains. EC: What about Joe Abraham' ; s house? When was that? HA: Well, that house, the original, Abraham house was on the lot, just west of the present Stone house. And that was a two-story frame house. All of the family was born there, with the exception of Pauline, and she was born in the present Stone house. I think that was constructed around 1912. I, I, I' ; m not sure about that date. EC: What about, did Joe get involved in any of the banks here? HA: As a stockholder? I think he might have been a small stockholder in in the First State Bank at one time. I' ; m not sure about that. But he was not an active banker. EC: How did, how did the Depression affect? HA: How did the what? EC: How, how did the Depression affect your family? HA: Well, Joe Abraham died in 1927 and the, and the Depression struck at, at the time when, if I may say so, that I had to take over. EC: Right. HA: Which was and I had probated the estate myself. And ,we, as other people, we were land poor. We, in a sense, we were broke. We went for five years without paying our taxes. Many, many people in Oklahoma went for five years without paying any ad valorem tax. There was a moratorium on the payment of taxes with the starting of the moratorium on the World War debts, which were saddled on Germany. And Germany could not pay and did not pay. And with the moratorium on the war debts, we were headed, well, heading into the depression days. So with the closing of the banks there just wasn' ; t any money. We operated with scrip, with the Chamber of Commerce was our bank. Our bank was a Chamber of Commerce we operated with scrip, and we were short of money. We had vacant buildings. I had no money to pay insurance, no money to pay taxes, no money to pay repairs. Nobody had very much money. Bales of cotton lined the street at $25 a bale. You couldn' ; t get enough money to pick the cotton out of a bale of cotton after you' ; d picked it and put those bands of steel around it. Cotton was cheap. Corn was 30 and 25 cents, 17 and a half cents a bushel. It was in the fields in Iowa as everybody knows, the depression days, if you know anything about it, it was cheap corn, and the wheat were lined up at at the export points in New Orleans and they piled it on, on the ground there. They couldn' ; t even find boats to take it out, and there was so much wheat. Train loads of wheat would line up there and they' ; d pile it on the ground, no place to put it. And hamburgers were three large hamburgers for a quarter. And many places, hamburgers, 5 cents a piece, a smaller hamburgers. So you say, how did depression affect us? Just like it did everybody else. We didn' ; t have any money. We were broke. EC: In thinking about just your memory as a child, mainly. Are there any particular things about life as a child in Bristow that stands out? HA: Oh, yes. We used to go to the Star Theater for 5 cents, and that was to start with, the kids here didn' ; t know what a picture was. We didn' ; t know what a a moving picture was at all, and most of us were afraid to even have our pictures taken. We were afraid of the little red canary or the little blue and green canary, so we went to the picture show for 5 cents. We bought all of the popcorn we wanted for 5 cents, and we sat on the front row, all the kids. And the first the first 10 or 15 seats were just filled with kids. And we could buy watermelons for a nickel a piece, and ice cream cones, milkshakes, haircuts a quarter. And we as children, we had everything we needed and a lot more. We had donkeys. Rode horses. There were blacksmith shops on the corner of, of fifth and main street by Bill Smith. He was the blacksmith with the large hands. And we' ; d stop there and watch the sparks fly across the floor, and it was a real honest to goodness town. The children went to Sunday school. There was a little church on east ninth street, and Brother Hooker Groom was the preacher, and he was an old style hell, fire and brimstone preacher. He had us all going to the hotspot every once in a while. And so we had our, we, we were just a, a, a wonderful hometown community. And everybody was friendly and they kept their word. EC: What thing back, let me just ask you, when were you born? HA: Oh, I was born in 1901 on December 8th. EC: Do you remember the Ku Klux Klan being in Bristow? HA: I remember when Jack Walton was governor of Oklahoma and the Ku Klux Klan was rather rampant, and I knew some of the Klansmen in those days and many of them were leading citizens in our community, and I was not interested enough nor old enough to be deeply interested in the Klan' ; s work or what it did. But I do remember the Klan and I remember seeing Klansman. EC: I, I, I didn' ; t know if it ever caused any ruckus. HA: I also remember that we, that one time, when Joe Abraham was to build a cotton gin in Shamrock, Shamrock was a new oil town, and he received a letter from somebody. We don' ; t know whether it was from the Klu Klux Klan or who it was from. But he did receive a letter and had me to read the letter to him. He could not read, but he could write his name, Fannie' ; s name, so dad, on the front porch of the Old Stone House, handed me the letter and asked me to read it. I read it, and it said that you got to discontinue building the cotton gin in Shamrock, that we don' ; t need a gin in this community. And if you do, something will happen. Well, I don' ; t recall exactly what the words were, but I do know that dad was very much concerned over that letter. I don' ; t know whether that was the Ku Klux Klan' ; s letter or not. I don' ; t think it was. I think it was somebody who did not want the gin constructed over there because of competitive reasons, because of the gin that was located probably over in Cushing. EC: Mm-hmm. What what effect did the oil was the oil boom, the biggest boom to hit? HA: Oh yes. The oil boom definitely was the biggest boom that ever hit this town. EC: What kind of effect did it have you just remember as a... HA: Well to start with, there were no paved streets in Bristow and it didn' ; t have large trucks in those days when the boom first started and the mud was over ankle deep and you even walking across the street. We didn' ; t know what jaywalking was. We just walked and they parked cars in the middle of the street. And there were all kinds of teamsters. They, they had wonderful horses and, and, and they would haul most of the oil field equipment, the pipe and the tanks and the tools were hauled by horses. Am Frierson (Ambrose Frierson), a well-known citizen now, deceased, was one of the early truckers in this community, and he did well in trucking. Later became an oil man and his family now has oil. But the oil boom definitely was paramount in Bristow' ; s history. It started with a discovery of some shallow wells in the Layton sand and later found some production in the Jones sand and later Bartlesville and deeper down to the Dutcher and then Wilcox sand. And there have been a few Arbuckle tests made in around Bristow, but very few here over in around the Drumright area. There' ; s been some Arbuckle production, but the, the field spread from primarily it, it hit, it hit around Drumright and Shamrock in that area, big, first, and the Jones family here, that would be RL Jones and M Jones and BB Jones and, and Boots Jones, the fam, the Jones family, which is probably the best known family in Bristow. They, they owned a large interest in the, in the Midcontinent field over around Drumright. And later liquidated their interests, and they were settled here in Bristow, but the, the refinery was the result of oil. And we have a, a deep gas storage facility that the Oklahoma Natural Gas Company has now, maintained south of Depew, stores gas in the summer. Of course, we use it in the winter and there' ; s many, many structures still around Bristow that are being drilled today. EC: What, What did you do as a kid, you know, teenager? What was the typical, what' ; d you do for fun? What kind of life did you lead, you know, kind of thing that... HA: Well, we first, we. EC: Kind of thing you wouldn' ; t wanna tell your kids about? HA: Well, we did--we did a lot of things in those days that a lot of kids do now. We had horses. Some of us started out with jennies. We started out just like other kids. We had skates and later a tricycle and later a bicycle, and later came the automobile. And, and we had horses and, and skating rinks. We did everything that all the kids do today and a lot more, too. We played Go Sheepy Go, and sometimes we' ; d go and didn' ; t come back. EC: I was, I was thinking somebody told me that you, about some bootlegger that used to live here. HA: Oh, you, EC: Was bootlegging. HA: Oh, bootlegging was, next to the oil industry, was the biggest industry in town. Bootlegging was a way that many, many families, families I' ; m speaking now, and some of their children, the children of the old-time bootleggers, I don' ; t know whether I should mention any names or not, but we had some bootleggers that were considered probably among some of the best liked citizens. I started to say best respected, but they were respected bootleggers. Some of ' ; em took more preachers fishing than anybody else in town. They were, and these, some of the bootleggers didn' ; t drink. They followed it as a business and paid the federal tax. And the, and the state officers, and the county officers didn' ; t do too much towards stopping them because they, if they if they knew anything about it, they didn' ; t try to stop it. EC: Have there been any famous old crimes or trials or scandals or anything that made the news, newspapers or something in Bristow? I know you had your share of run of the mill assault and battery and that kind of thing, but I, has there been any famous events? HA: I don' ; t , I don' ; t recall. There used to be some, some bank robbers around here. Brandon (Roy Brandon) was one and Pretty Boy Floyd used to come through town. I' ; ve seen him standing in the highway down here. And there' ; s probably others that I, I, I, I would remember if their names were suggested. Bristow was not a hideout, but there were some well-known, I would say, criminals who passed through here and stayed here at times. EC: During the oil boom, I have heard there were, oh, there was a dance hall or something back of a drug store. I was thinking when the oil boom came, you had oil field workers who were just here to, to work and spend their money and have fun. HA: Well, there was a, there was an old, a place we called the Palm Confectionery that at one time was operated by, I believe, we called him, his name was Ralph Corey, he' ; s now deceased, Punk Corey . He was a great baseball player in our estimation. And that I might mention that Bristow had some outstanding baseball players, Hammond Vickers and Punk Corey and Smooch Jones. And, and many of those fellas were considered just topnotch baseball players. And we had a baseball team that was a, a topnotch team and we' ; d go to baseball games on Sunday and this drugstore, what you mentioned, where they would dance, used to dance down in the Palm Confectionery area some. And there was another drugstore where they used to dance up here on North Main Street near the city hall. There was a dance hall back there at one time. I don' ; t recall too much about those dance halls. EC: Yeah. What about politics? Have there been any interesting politics in Bristow? Anybody? I know they had the elections all the time, but any of ' ; em real hotly contested? HA: Well the, as I recall, at one time, Bristow had the streets filled with the political groups. And the question was, well, where were we going to have the the county seat? Would it be in Bristow or Sapulpa? So there was a real hot election, and of course Sapulpa won, but Bristow was in the big middle of that, and we, of course won the county seat here. And Bill Cheatham at one time was a candidate for Congress here and Judge CO (Charles Oliver) Beaver, both of whom were Democrats. He was a candidate at one time for Congress, and I believe that Ed Mackensen, the present editor of the Bristow Paper, was a candidate for Congress. EC: Well just let your memory run. What are some of the things that you know, you remember about Bristow that maybe nobody else knows or kind of things that stand out in your mind about life in Bristow? HA: Well, as I recall it, on Saturday you could walk up Main Street and see nearly all of the farmers that lived within trading area of Bristow. And most I knew most of the farmers because I had weighed cotton at the cotton gins for dad. And, also, we had a number of farms and just my business to know them, and I knew the farmers and, and we, we would visit and stop and, and take out time to talk. And it was a lot of sociability among the people in those days. And the many of the Indians would come to town, the Bigponds and the Tigers and and many others would come in and some of them would get rather drunk and there was a jail that we had to build ' ; em outta cement and put some steel bars on it. And I don' ; t know whether the jail house is still here or not. It was down in the area of where Wells Grocery store is now. May have been torn down. And it' ; s those Indians would get in there and they' ; d, hoot we, we saw all kinds of, of Indian regalia in the early days. Drive out on the country roads and the trees were rather large and more or less independent. They were, there was not a lot of, of running blackjack in the early days. The grass blue stem, big blue stem, little blue stem, and various prairie grasses would, would grow and get rather tall. And when the fires came through, well, the fires were hot enough to kill out the undergrowth under those trees, which is not, which is there now a lot of the areas that you see that are completely covered with with a dense blackjack growth and other kinds of trees there. To start with, that was not that way. The cause of the blackjack growth and the running, running blackjacks and so forth was overgrazing. Many of the, of the farms would have a pasture and there just wasn' ; t enough grass. Farms were, were small and the tenants would over graze and where the overgrazing, we didn' ; t have the fires. No fires. Then the acorns would fall and the sprout and the fires kept down the this tremendous growth in the early days, but we, we' ; ve got a growth now that we have to brush beat (ph). EC: Has cattle been important in Bristow' ; s economy? HA: Cattle probably today is is going, is is one of the big industries of this community. You can believe it or not, but within two miles of Bristow, I can show you an 80-acre tract of ground that now has, believe it, 200 head of cattle and the man who has the cattle paid over $2,000 rent. He doesn' ; t. Now I can show this to you as seeing is believing and the, the grass that are, that are being grown there, and it would be fescue, sericea and big and little yellow hop and, of course, native Bermuda grass and the other native grasses and [undecipherable] at the, when one crop is grazed down, another one comes on. And then there' ; s some, some cheat grass from what we call wild oats here. That it' ; s it' ; s, it' ; s unbelievable as to what the, the carrying capacity of this land for grazing purposes, if we have enough rainfall and with proper tillage, deep tillage, we can catch the rain through the season and retain that rain. And that is being done by the ranchers out here today. EC: Well, is, is this something fairly new? HA: This is fairly new. This is, this is as brand new as it can be. And there there isn' ; t any question about it. The future for this area is absolutely fabulous. EC: Well, now, am I correct Bristow started out with cotton as its main crop? HA: That' ; s probably correct. EC: And somewhere in there, peanuts got important. HA: Later they came with peanuts and then tried to, after the peanuts, sap the soil. They tried to put on a cover crop, but very few people did that. And excessive fertilization was used that shoots the soil and allows the plant to extract from the soil the native food values and nutrients faster than should be done. But grazing is quite different. And the peanut was taken out, the whole plant was taken out, and no humus was left in the soil. But today, with grazing and fertilization and proper cultivation, we have a deeper root system. So we' ; ve got humus in the soil. Humus is the item that holds the water. And then the, the extra growth on top of the soil keeps the soil cool and the sun doesn' ; t extract by capillary attraction that the water that we can catch. So you can go out here today and find just dozens of farms. I can take you to dozens of farms that are carrying cattle today. And with the price of cows you can get well over, well over $500 for a nice, good sized cow and some of them up to, to 650 just for the cow and, and many times 750 for a cow and a calf. Depends of course, on the size, but you can go out here and just see these little small herds that are in the making. You can see that the future of this area is is agriculture. It' ; s industry. We have new industries around our town. Now we have the, the lock plant is here, and there' ; s some prefabricated house materials are being manufactured near Bristow. We have the future of this community is absolutely settled. We have homes being constructed out here by, by the dozen set there equal to homes anywhere in the country. And these people have good jobs and they' ; re competent. They know how to do things, and they are doing things and they' ; re working everywhere, and they' ; re, they' ; re independent free-thinking people. It' ; s different from the original tenant farmer who followed the oil boom communities. Quite different. The first farmer was an itinerant and he was a worker, and he worked some in the oil fields, maybe pump a little, do this and do that. But today most of these people who are settled around Bristow live in, in houses that are just far superior to the houses in Bristow. It would make the houses of Bristow look shanty to go out and see these wonderful new, fabulous homes that surround this community. EC: Change the subject again. Was there a black community here all along? HA: Oh yes. We had Lincoln Heights, which was on up by the standpipe on the, the west side of town. And that was the original colored community. And we had some wonderful colored citizens in this area. We still have them. And the colored community later, it was moved to the east side of Bristow and we call it the East Side now on East 12th Street and East 11th Street. And there are many old original families that are still here and there. EC: Who are some do by name, do you think? HA: Well, the Wilsons would be an original family and the man that was janitor up school for so long. He was ill here a while back, Shoals, and then there' ; s another colored family that I' ; m having a little difficulty recalling his name, but he, he worked for Joe Abraham as one of the, one of Joe Abraham' ; s cotton samplers. He cut samples and worked with dad and, Willis, we called him. His first name is Willis. I can' ; t recall his last name now. I may think of it in a minute. And then [indecipherable] Sanders is one of the earliest farmers here. And Jake Roberts was a, was a family. The Roberts lived up north of town up here. They still live in this area some Roberts. And then Combs. Roland Combs had a, a son that teaches school. He was lived out around Slick, would come to town. He has a daughter who was a school teacher, and this Chuck Farmer and Alfonso Farmer, a Farmer family, and any number of them, they' ; re still around here. EC: What about Indians? Did Indians, full bloods, I suppose, live in Bristow, or did they stay out from town? HA: Very few Indians stayed, lived in Bristow. A few, Jay Clinton, lived here at one time, and then there was a a member of the Tiger family that lived here. And not too many Indians lived in the city of Bristow. EC: Was there prejudice or discrimination against Indians? HA: Never. Has there been any prejudice or discrimination against an Indian nor a Negro in this community. Yeah, I know, nor any other nationality. Never have I known of any prejudice. EC: Mm-hmm. What about the school system here? Has it been adequate all along compared to other schools? HA: Yes, we, we' ; ve had a wonderful school system and I believe we' ; ve got the best school system today that we' ; ve ever had. We have a superintendent who' ; s active. He' ; s forward thinking. He' ; s brought us a brand new school system. And they' ; ve got a wonderful new school building here, two of them. And, primarily, I think we can give him credit for that. We have an outstanding school system. EC: Well, you and your brother and sisters all went to school here. HA: Yes, we all went to school here. EC: And you have good memories of it because HA: Oh yes. EC: Overall. HA: Oh, yes. At Bristow has always had a top-grade school. EC: Well, let me think what I-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0045A_Herbert_Abraham.xml OHP-0045A_Herbert_Abraham.xml
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Herbert Abraham
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In this 1979 interview with Herbert Abraham, he talks in depth about the Lebanese community and his father, Joe Abraham, and his life and contribution to Bristow's history. He also recalls his childhood growing up in Bristow, the Ku Klux Klan, bootlegging, agriculture, the black community and the schools.
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OHP-0045A
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1979-05-23
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audio