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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Wanda Newton
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Winey Harjo
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0042A_Winey_Harjo.xml
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5.4 March 1991 OHP-0042A Winey Harjo - Part 1 OHP-0042A Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Winey Harjo Wanda Newton 1:|32(14)|81(15)|108(2)|134(1)|166(4)|193(4)|231(3)|262(3)|286(9)|324(3)|346(3)|376(10)|401(7)|431(9)|460(8)|482(7)|515(5)|547(12)|563(14)|590(1)|618(15)|646(10)|679(19)|705(15)|725(10)|748(14)|764(15)|783(11)|807(5)|848(13) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0042A Harjo, Winey.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History & ; Children WN: This is Wanda Newton, and I’m out at Mrs. Harjo’s house. She has consented to talk to me. WH: [Indecipherable] in the walls. WN: Yes, they were in the wall of this old house. Now you tell me how old you are, Mrs. Harjo. Tell me your name, your full name, your Indian name, your maiden name before you got married. WH: And my married name. WN: Yeah. WH: Winey Harjo. WN: Winey Harjo. What was your name before you married Harjo? WH: I was a Hawkin. WN: A Hawkin? WH: That’s my maiden name. Winey talks all about her family history, including her parents, siblings and children. A.H. Purdy ; Barney Harjo ; children ; Creek Indian ; E.W. Simms ; family ; George Tiger ; Hawkin ; Indian Territory ; Joseph Eads ; log cabin ; M.C. Flourney ; Martha Bigpond ; Okmulgee ; Paul Harjo ; Sarah Taylor ; siblings ; Slick ; Taylor Harjo ; The Bristow Indian Territorial Enterprise ; Thomas Tiger ; Van D. Stout ; Wesley Harjo ; Wilson Harjo children ; family history ; siblings 429 Small Pox WH: No. See they all died in the old times by small pox. WN: Oh, well now in here there’s a, in Mr. Purdy’s diary here, he has a thing about a small pox camp being here in Bristow down my 2nd Street. Do you remember that when you were a little girl? WH: No. This here was out way out between here and Okemah. WN: Oh, and that’s where you got… WH: And my brother was in that small pox then. He was 10-years-old. WN: Oh my. WH: But he finally made it over. WN: And he got alright. Did he have a bunch of scars or anything? WH: No. Winey talks about her grandparents all dying of small pox, so she has little memory of them. A.H. Purdy ; Okemah ; small pox ; small pox camp small pox 498 Attending School WN: How wonderful. Oh, that’s so nice and what a nice heirloom for your family. That’s great. Well now, can you remember anything about when you were a little girl? Where did you got to school? Did you go to school? WH: I went to…I didn’t go to school very much. First school I went to, I went to Mills Chapel. You remember that? WN: Yes, I remember that. WH: But I didn’t go there very much because, see, after my step daddy died, we had to work in the fields. WN: Oh, of course. Winey's first memory of attending a school was Mills Chapel School. Her father passed away, so she didn't get to attend school much, because she had to work in the fields. Conneisenney Tiger ; cotton fields ; Fanny Tiger ; Mills Chapel School ; school school ; working in the fields 616 Stage Coach & ; Town Life WN: Oh, I didn’t even know that was there. Now another thing I read about in Mr. Purdy’s diary was a stage coach trail. Do you remember the stage coach coming to Bristow? WH: No. I don’t remember that cause we didn’t have no way of comin’ to Bristow, only in a wagon. WN: In a wagon, you came. WH: We only come when we had to come after maybe a little groceries or something. WN: Money was hard to come by then, wasn’t it? WH: We had to make our own living. Winey talks about not getting to town too often because her family was so poor but does remember coming to town in a wagon to occasionally pick up groceries. poor ; stage coach ; stage coach trail ; wagon stage coach ; town life 656 Home Life WN: Well let me ask you, did you do your own sewing? Did you make your own clothes and everything? WH: Oh yeah. We had to sew with our fingers, hand. WN: My word, hand sewing. WH: Yeah, because we didn’t know nothing about no machine. WN: Did your mother quilt? Do you all make quilts and everything like that? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you remember some favorite Indian recipes, Mrs. Harjo? Can you… WH: Indian what? WN: Recipes that your mother made? Winey's family made their own clothes, gathered food and made their own flour by pounding corn. flour ; free range ; gathering ; pounding corn ; quilting ; sewing home life 761 Dawes Commission WN: Well, now as that your allotment you were living on? WH: No. That was my step-father’s allotment. WN: I see. And did you all sign up with the Dawes Commission and get your Indian rights? WH: Yes. In 1907. That’s when all Creek Indians had to sign and get an allotment. WN: Oh, that was too bad, wasn’t it? WH: That’s when Bristow come to [indecipherable] but it come to Bristow, Oklahoma. Winey's family lived on her step-father's allotment. allotment ; Creek Indians ; Dawes Commission 804 Bristow Memories WN: Well, you remember… WH: I remember when Bristow didn’t have any streets. WN: You can? WH: Just mud. If you go there you had to walk in the mud and go in the stores. There was one street they come, one store come in there was S.T. Wolfe. You remember him? WN: S.T. Wolfe, yes I remember the Wolfe name. WH: He had a big store right there across where the bank is now. WN: Oh, on Sixth Street, you mean? WH: Yeah. And then Stone Hardware. Winey talks about some of her early Bristow memories. A.H. Purdy ; cotton gin ; dirt streets ; Joe Abraham ; John Bishop ; S.T. Wolfe ; Stone Hardware Bristow Memories 954 Church Life & ; Husband WN: Well, I don’t know either. Well, now tell me about your husband just a little bit. Where did you meet him? How did you meet him? WH: Oh, I meet him in church. WN: Which church did you go to? WH: That Indian church right there now. WN: Oh, right down here, Mutteloke? WH: That church was built there in 1901. WN: It was? WH: That’s where he come in there and, of course, he was young, but I was young, too. Winey talks about meeting her husband at church and marrying him in Tulsa. church ; husband ; Indian church ; Mutteloke ; Tulsa church life ; husband 1002 Indian Games WN: Oh, I see. Well, now let me ask you, when you were a young girl, were they still doing green corn dances and… WH: Yeah. WN: And Indian dances. I remember I went to some up by Kellyville, and they had turtle shells, and I bet you were one of the dancers. WH: I danced with shell. WN: You danced with shell? WH: And I played the Indian ball game, a stick ball game. WN: Oh, you did stuff like that? I didn’t know girls played that. WH: Yeah. Winey talks about the different Indian games they played when they were young. green corn dance ; Indian dance ; Indian games ; Kellyville ; stick ball game Indian games 1069 Hunting WH: No. We didn’t know nothing about that when we were young cause we’d get out and hunt and kill rabbits and squirrels. WN: Did you kill rabbits and squirrels, too? WH: Sure. WN: With a gun? WH: No, with a bow and arrow. We didn’t kill no squirrels with no gun. Didn’t shoot no rabbits with no gun either. We’d get on horses and we had a bunch of dogs and when the dogs get after ‘em while we’d follow them and, you know, they’d round him up [indecipherable] we’d catch ‘em and we’d kill five or six rabbits. And we’d dress ‘em, and we had a smoke house built just for the purpose of that and we’d put ‘em all in there and smoke it. Winey hunted rabbits and squirrels with a bow and arrow and fished in Sand Creek. bow and arrow ; hunting ; Sand Creek ; smoke house hunting ; Sand Creek 1205 Favorite Toys & ; Clothing WN: Well, I’m glad they are coming back. I wished we could dig the and out of Sand Creek. Now let’s back up to when you were a little girl. Did you have a favorite toy, Mrs. Harjo? WH: No. We had dolls, but we had to make our own dolls. WN: Oh, you made your own…what’d you make them out of, rags? WH: We made them with a cobb. WN: Oh, out of a corn cobb? Well, did you do Indian bead work, too, or just ribbons or what did you do? WH: No. Didn’t do that cause we didn’t have no money to buy nothing like that. Winey's family had to make their own corn cobb dolls. clothing ; corn cobb ; dolls ; toys clothing ; toys 1258 Indian Language WN: Oh, I know. Well let me ask you, could all of the children read some? Could you read or did you all just speak the Indian language. WH: Well, I spoke Indian language when I was young. WN: Uh huh. WH: And then, cause my daddy didn’t, I mean my step-daddy didn’t speak no Indian language. Well, we had to turn around and speak English. And then when he passed away… WN: What nationality was he? Do you remember? WH: Uh, he was, what you call, oh a Freedman. WN: Oh, he was a Freedman? Oh, I see. Winey spoke Indian when she was young but had to learn English when her mother married her step-father because he did not speak Creek. Freedmen ; Indian language Indian language 1316 Polio WH: Yeah, and after he died, well, I took them polio when I was four-years-old. WN: You did? WH: I had the polio. You know like they have… WN: Yeah like you were cripple? WH: No, I didn’t get cripple. WN: Well, how wonderful. WH: And so, we was in, you know what a [indecipherable]. WN: Yeah. Winey developed polio as a child and claims she was cured by a medicine man. Daniel Tiger ; medicine man ; polio polio 1439 First Home WN: Well, now let me ask you, after you were married, where did you build your first house? You went to Tulsa, you said? WH: I lived with my mother when I first married. That’s where this oldest boy, that’s where he born. WN: Oh, Wesley was born there with your mother? WH: And he was just beginning to crawl, and we got burned up. And then after that, my mother went to live my older sister, cause she was by herself, you know, so me and my husband, we had to buy a tent. We bought it from Mr. Purdy. Winey, her husband and Wesley lived with her mother until there was a house fire, and then they had to live in a tent. A.H. Purdy ; first home ; house fire ; tent first home 1505 Trading & ; Planting Cotton WH: We lived in there and then we [indecipherable]. We planted their cotton. And then we make a little money and then we traded the Slyman, he had a grocery store, right there on the corner there. WN: On Fifth Street, wasn’t it? WH: Yeah. And then after that we’d sale that cotton and pay that grocery bill. That’s the way they used to pay they grocery bill. WN: You’d charge all winter long and then pay it when you got your crop. WH: And John Bishop was the same way. Winey talks about planting cotton and trading for the goods they needed to live. cotton ; cotton gin ; John Bishop ; Tom Slick ; trading cotton ; trading 1726 Christmas WN: I’ll be darned. Well if you think of her name, you let me know. Let me ask you, how did you all celebrate Christmas? WH: Well, we’d just have a dinner, just, well, not exactly like you have it now, but we’d have a dinner, and of course a… WN: Did you have a tree? WH: A tree? WN: Uh huh. WH: Christmas tree? WN: No Christmas tree, just had a dinner. WH: That’s all. And see my step-dad would go out and shoot a wild turkey. WN: But you didn’t exchange presents? WH: Huh uh. Winey's family celebrated Christmas by having a special dinner of wild turkey. Christmas ; dinner ; presents ; wild turkey Christmas 1779 First Automobile WN: Okay. Alright. Can you remember the first automobile you ever saw? WH: Yeah. WN: Where was it? WH: T-Model. And the first car we bought from George Carman. WN: Oh, I remember Mr. Carman. WH: You do? WN: Yeah. WH: He had a big storage house right there on 11th Street there. Winey bought her first car, a Model-T, from George Carman. automobile ; George Carman ; Model-T first automobile MP3 In Part One of Winey Harjo's 1990 interview, she talks about her family history, having small pox as a child, attending school some, working in the fields, and what it was like to live in a time with no money. Part One WN: This is Wanda Newton, and I' ; m out at Mrs. Harjo' ; s house. She has consented to talk to me. WH: [Indecipherable] in the walls. WN: Yes, they were in the wall of this old house. Now you tell me how old you are, Mrs. Harjo. Tell me your name, your full name, your Indian name, your maiden name before you got married. WH: And my married name. WN: Yeah. WH: Winey Harjo. WN: Winey Harjo. What was your name before you married Harjo? WH: I was a Hawkin. WN: A Hawkin? WH: That' ; s my maiden name. WN: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your mother and father. WH: Well, now, I don' ; t know my father because he died when I was three-years-old. WN: And you were three? WH: Uh huh. I don' ; t remember him, but my mother, her name was Sarah Taylor. WN: And were they both Indian? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you know what tribe? WH: Creek. WN: Creek tribe. And where did they come from? Do you know? WH: Oh, just right around Slick and Okmulgee. WN: And, and what did your father do? WH: What' ; d he do? WN: Uh huh. WH: I don' ; t remember cause I wasn' ; t old enough. WN: You weren' ; t old enough to remember at all. And your mother didn' ; t tell you what he did or anything? WH: No, no. WN: How many brothers and sisters did you have? WH: I had, I had uh two full sisters as Hawkin. WN: Two full sisters of Hawkin. WH: Uh huh. And then I had a half-sister was a Tiger. WN: Oh, are you kin to Ms. Johnson (ph)? WH: No, Martha Bigpond. WN: Oh, Martha Bigpond. WH: Yeah. That was my half-sister. WN: Oh. WH: She was a Tiger. WN: She was a Tiger. WH: Yeah, and then I had a brother was George Tiger and they were brothers, but they were half brothers to me, both of them. WN: Oh. Now I read, do you know a Thomas Tiger? Did you know a-- WH: Creek. WN: He was a Creek? Thomas Tiger? Was he kin to you? WH: Yeah. WN: Well, I read about him. WH: You did? WN: Yeah, in an early newspaper. I' ; m going to turn this radio off. WH: Yeah, turn it down. WN: Alright. Let me turn it down. Just a minute. WH: Turn it to the west. I mean-- [Inaudible] WN: Here it says, this was a newspaper. Let me see where is it. I found about Thomas Tiger. Okay. This was in 1901. This was in the newspaper, The Bristow Indian Territorial Enterprise. WH: Oh yeah. I remember. WN: Okay, it says-- WH: Bristow. They didn' ; t leave Oklahoma. WN: No, it wasn' ; t Oklahoma then. But Mr. Purdy, I don' ; t know if you remember a Mr. Purdy or not? WH: Purdy? WN: Purdy, uh huh. WH: I sure do. WN: Well, he wrote this. He wrote all of this stuff from a book, and he said, I mean he just wrote it down. This is March the 29th. " ; The Snake Indians which camp is near Okmulgee, and they want the whites to leave from this part of the Indian Territory. So, today, they sent in a horseman by the name of Thomas Tiger." ; WH: I know him. WN: " ; And he delivered a notice to A.H. Purdy, M.C. Flourney, Van D. Stout, P.D. Stout, E.W. Simms, and Joseph Eads and gave them four days to leave along with all that are living in Bristow." ; They wanted everybody out of Bristow. WH: Yeah. WN: Ah, so, and I can see why they wanted everybody out of Bristow. But, now, was Thomas kin to you? WH: Well, Thomas was a half-brother to Martha Bigpond. That' ; s my half-sister. WN: Oh. WH: He was a half-brother to her. WN: And where did you live, Mrs. Harjo, when you were in this area? WH: Right around Bristow, Slick. WN: In that area, there? WH: Yeah. And then I just landed right here in Bristow. WN: Well, did you live in a log cabin or a sod house? WH: Yeah. WN: You lived in a log cabin? WH: Yeah. And we got burned out. WN: Oh you did? Well, did your stove catch on fire or what happened? WH: Yeah. We lived in a log house and they made the chimney with logs, you see, and there was fire in there and cook. And it caught a fire. WN: How old were you? About how old were you? WH: I was about uh, well, I was married in 1911, and that' ; s when it burned down. I had one boy, baby boy then. WN: You had one baby boy. WH: And that' ; s Wesley. WN: Oh, that' ; s Wesley, is that Wesley? Oh, and how many children did you have? WH: I had six boys and three girls. Oh yeah. WN: Six boys and three girls. Can you name them? Will you name them for me? WH: Yeah. First one is Wesley out there, Wesley Harjo. Wilson Harjo, you know him. WN: Yes, I remember Wilson well. WH: Well, then the next one was Taylor Harjo. WN: I remember Taylor. WH: And then the fourth one was, oh, Paul Harjo. WN: I remember Paul. WH: And then the last one was Barney Harjo. WN: Barney. I remember Barney. All of your boys were so handsome, I thought. WH: Yeah. WN: Now name your girls for me. WH: One was named Lucy Hawkin. And one was named Fanny Hawkin, but she married a Tiger. But Lucy Hawkin didn' ; t marry. She died before. She was just 18-years-old. (It is believed Mrs. Harjo is speaking of her sisters, here, and not her daughters.) WN: Oh, what happened to her? WH: I think she got burned some way. WN: Oh, that' ; s too bad. WH: I was just about six-years-old then. WN: My word. WH: Yeah. And I had a half-brother named Willie Vance (ph) and he died, too. He died after my mother passed away, he passed away. WN: How old was your mother when she died? WH: She was about 90-years-old. WN: And what was her name? WH: Sarah Taylor (ph). That was her maiden name. WN: That was her maiden name. WH: But she went by Tiger. WN: She went by Tiger. Let me ask you, do you remember your grandmother at all or your grandparents at all? WH: No. See they all died in the old times by small pox. WN: Oh, well now in here there' ; s a, in Mr. Purdy' ; s diary here, he has a thing about a small pox camp being here in Bristow down my 2nd Street. Do you remember that when you were a little girl? WH: No. This here was out way out between here and Okemah. WN: Oh, and that' ; s where you got-- WH: And my brother was in that small pox then. He was 10-years-old. WN: Oh my. WH: But he finally made it over. WN: And he got alright. Did he have a bunch of scars or anything? WH: No. WN: My, he was lucky, wasn' ; t he? WH: And I got the pot that they made tea for them that had the small pox. WN: You still have that pot? How wonderful. WH: [Indecipherable] wash pot. WN: How wonderful. Oh, that' ; s so nice and what a nice heirloom for your family. That' ; s great. Well now, can you remember anything about when you were a little girl? Where did you got to school? Did you go to school? WH: I went to--I didn' ; t go to school very much. First school I went to, I went to Mills Chapel. You remember that? WN: Yes, I remember that. WH: But I didn' ; t go there very much because, see, after my step daddy died, we had to work in the fields. WN: Oh, of course. WH: And we had to work and make corn and peas and potatoes and make a living. WN: And your brothers and sisters worked in the fields, too? WH: Yeah. WN: Oh that' ; s-- WH: My sister just passed away here about, I guess it was about seven years ago. She was older than I was. WN: Oh, my stars. That' ; s fantastic. WH: Her name was Fanny Tiger WN: Fanny Tiger. I remember that name, Fanny Tiger. WH: Yeah. WN: Well, do you--I remember Grandmother Conneisenney, that used to stand on--Grandmother Conneisenney? Do you remember Ms. Conneisenney? WH: Senney? WN: Conneisenney? Was she Martha--I remember her standing on the street, and she had a little long dress on, and she wore a little kerchief around her head, and I thought she was the cutest little woman I ever saw. WH: Her name was what? WN: Conneisenney. WH: Senney Tiger (ph). WN: Yeah, yeah. WH: Senney Tiger (ph). WN: Senney Tiger (ph). That was it. WH: I remember her. That was--Tom Tiger married her then. [Indecipherable] WN: Oh really? WH: Yeah, but she passed away. WN: Yes. Yes. WH: And so uh he didn' ; t get married no more ' ; till, well he did, but he went down toward, uh, way down toward uh, what' ; s it called? Charlie Hill. (ph) WN: Oh, I didn' ; t even know that was there. Now another thing I read about in Mr. Purdy' ; s diary was a stage coach trail. Do you remember the stage coach coming to Bristow? WH: No. I don' ; t remember that cause we didn' ; t have no way of comin' ; to Bristow, only in a wagon. WN: In a wagon, you came. WH: We only come when we had to come after maybe a little groceries or something. WN: Money was hard to come by then, wasn' ; t it? WH: We had to make our own living. WN: Well let me ask you, did you do your own sewing? Did you make your own clothes and everything? WH: Oh yeah. We had to sew with our fingers, hand. WN: My word, hand sewing. WH: Yeah, because we didn' ; t know nothing about no machine. WN: Did your mother quilt? Do you all make quilts and everything like that? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you remember some favorite Indian recipes, Mrs. Harjo? Can you-- WH: Indian what? WN: Recipes that your mother made? WH: Huh uh. She didn' ; t make none of them [indecipherable] if it did, it burned up. WN: Oh, I see. Well now, let me ask you, tell me what you all cooked back then. How did you cook and what did you cook? WH: When we was young? WN: Uh huh. WH: [Indecipherable] well we had one of them, and we had to, we had to corn, pound in that WN: You pounded your corn in that? WH: And made bread cause see they didn' ; t sell no flour then way back in 1901. WN: And you pounded your own corn? WH: We had to pound that corn and make our own bread. WN: Well, what about your meat, did you--were there deer or did you raise cattle? WH: No. We' ; d just eat--we' ; d just go out and catch rabbits and squirrels. WN: And gathered opossum grapes, you gathered grapes and wild onions? WH: Yeah. Wild onions. That' ; s all we lived on. We didn' ; t raise no hog cause I don' ; t remember anybody having any hogs. Course they do the free range. WN: Yes. Oh, it was. No fences? WH: No. WN: Well, now as that your allotment you were living on? WH: No. That was my step-father' ; s allotment. WN: I see. And did you all sign up with the Dawes Commission and get your Indian rights? WH: Yes. In 1907. That' ; s when all Creek Indians had to sign and get an allotment. WN: Oh, that was too bad, wasn' ; t it? WH: That' ; s when Bristow come to [indecipherable] but it come to Bristow, Oklahoma. WN: Well, you remember-- WH: I remember when Bristow didn' ; t have any streets. WN: You can? WH: Just mud. If you go there you had to walk in the mud and go in the stores. There was one street they come, one store come in there was S.T. Wolfe. You remember him? WN: S.T. Wolfe, yes I remember the Wolfe name. WH: He had a big store right there across where the bank is now. WN: Oh, on Sixth Street, you mean? WH: Yeah. And then Stone Hardware. WN: Yes. WH: That Stone Hardware still there. WN: Yes, it is. WH: Well, that was, well it was a hardware store. WN: And he used to sell caskets and everything, didn' ; t he? WH: Yeah. WN: I read about it. I don' ; t remember that, but I read about it. WH: Well, they had one jewelry store, and I can' ; t remember that name. And then they had one little store back along there where Ms. Stanford (ph) is-- WN: Oh really? WH: Had a sell, like, glasses and plates. WN: Kind of like a dime store? Do you remember when some of the early merchants came in? They always say Joe Abraham came in with a little cart and sell things off of the cart. WH: Yeah. WN: Let' ; s back up to when you were-- WH: The Slymans? WN: Yes, the Slymans. Well, you remember a lot of those. WH: Oh, and John Bishop is over the [indecipherable]. He ought to know who it was. WN: Well, yes, John should, but I can' ; t get him to tell me too much. WH: He' ; s 90. I' ; m 95. And he' ; s two years older than [indecipherable]. WN: He is? Well you know he doesn' ; t go down to the cotton gin anymore. WH: He don' ; t go to the office no more? WN: No, because he' ; s gotten so, he falls over. And so they have a--he stays home and they have a lady that stays with him all the time now. But, yes, he' ; s interesting. WH: And I know Purdy. WN: You knew Mr. Purdy? WH: Yeah, and his son. I don' ; t remember his last name. I don' ; t remember what was his name but he had went to California. I don' ; t know whether he' ; s still living or not. WN: Well, I don' ; t know either. Well, now tell me about your husband just a little bit. Where did you meet him? How did you meet him? WH: Oh, I meet him in church. WN: Which church did you go to? WH: That Indian church right there now. WN: Oh, right down here, Mutteloke? WH: That church was built there in 1901. WN: It was? WH: That' ; s where he come in there and, of course, he was young, but I was young, too. WN: And he was handsome, wasn' ; t he? WH: Yeah, and he attended that church, and I already belonged to that church. And so that' ; s where I met him. And I just married him in 1911. WN: And you married him in that church there? WH: No, I married him up in Tulsy (Tulsa). WN: Oh, I see. Well, now let me ask you, when you were a young girl, were they still doing green corn dances and-- WH: Yeah. WN: And Indian dances. I remember I went to some up by Kellyville, and they had turtle shells, and I bet you were one of the dancers. WH: I danced with shell. WN: You danced with shell? WH: And I played the Indian ball game, a stick ball game. WN: Oh, you did stuff like that? I didn' ; t know girls played that. WH: Yeah. WN: Oh, I think that' ; s wonderful. I bet you were good, weren' ; t you? WH: Well, yeah, we was. The way they had the men put up that Indian ball game, they put up a big pole and put a cow head on that. WN: A cow head? WH: Yeah, and if you hit that cow head in the center, you made a score. WN: Oh my word. With that little ball? WH: Little round ball. WN: Well, did you ever score? WH: No. We didn' ; t know nothing about that when we were young cause we' ; d get out and hunt and kill rabbits and squirrels. WN: Did you kill rabbits and squirrels, too? WH: Sure. WN: With a gun? WH: No, with a bow and arrow. We didn' ; t kill no squirrels with no gun. Didn' ; t shoot no rabbits with no gun either. We' ; d get on horses and we had a bunch of dogs and when the dogs get after ' ; em while we' ; d follow them and, you know, they' ; d round him up [indecipherable] we' ; d catch ' ; em and we' ; d kill five or six rabbits. And we' ; d dress ' ; em, and we had a smoke house built just for the purpose of that and we' ; d put ' ; em all in there and smoke it. WN: And dry them and have them for the winter. How wonderful. Was hard work, too, wasn' ; t it? WH: Hard work, yeah. Plow corn, grate corn, drive the wagon, ride horse, swim. WN: Well, who taught you to swim? WH: Nobody. Nobody was there. Just go and get in the water and run it yourself. WN: Oh, that' ; s wonderful. I want you to tell me, how the Sand Creek out here, it hasn' ; t always been like that, full of sand, has it? Sand Creek, didn' ; t it used to be pretty and clear? My grandmother-- WH: Yeah. And you could fish in that, too. There was fish in there. WN: Oh really? How deep was it about? WH: Oh, I guess maybe some places was like 20 foot, along like that. WN: You gotta be kidding. WH: Yeah. But now it ain' ; t nothing. WN: No, it is nothing. Well, there used to be deer in here, too, wasn' ; t there? WH: Yeah. Why I' ; d have three or four deers come here right this year, this fall. WN: Oh, you did? Right in this area? WH: Yeah. I don' ; t know where they come from. WN: But they' ; re here. WH: Somewhere. WN: Well, I' ; m glad they are coming back. I wished we could dig the and out of Sand Creek. Now let' ; s back up to when you were a little girl. Did you have a favorite toy, Mrs. Harjo? WH: No. We had dolls, but we had to make our own dolls. WN: Oh, you made your own--what' ; d you make them out of, rags? WH: We made them with a cobb. WN: Oh, out of a corn cobb? Well, did you do Indian bead work, too, or just ribbons or what did you do? WH: No. Didn' ; t do that cause we didn' ; t have no money to buy nothing like that. WN: But you wore long dresses? WH: Yeah. WN: And what were your favorite Sunday shoes and your favorite Sunday dress? Can you remember-- WH: We didn' ; t go to church at that time. There was no church then. WN: Oh, there was no church then? WH: The churches begin right along in 1902. That' ; s when the Indian church begin and different churches. [Indecipherable] there' ; s a lot of Indian churches now. WN: Oh, I know. Well let me ask you, could all of the children read some? Could you read or did you all just speak the Indian language. WH: Well, I spoke Indian language when I was young. WN: Uh huh. WH: And then, cause my daddy didn' ; t, I mean my step-daddy didn' ; t speak no Indian language. Well, we had to turn around and speak English. And then when he passed away-- WN: What nationality was he? Do you remember? WH: Uh, he was, what you call, oh a Freedman. WN: Oh, he was a Freedman? Oh, I see. WH: Part Indian and part colored. WN: I see. WH: Because you couldn' ; t tell him from a colored. WN: Well, I' ; ll be darned. A Freedman. WH: Yeah, and after he died, well, I took them polio when I was four-years-old. WN: You did? WH: I had the polio. You know like they have-- WN: Yeah like you were cripple? WH: No, I didn' ; t get cripple. WN: Well, how wonderful. WH: And so, we was in, you know what a [indecipherable]. WN: Yeah. WH: Well, we was living right there on that section [indecipherable] goes on down there by William Daniel (ph) old house. WN: And you got polio then? WH: Yeah. WN: Did anybody else in your family get it? WH: Nuh-uh. WN: You were the only one. WH: And then when mom married this Tiger man, that' ; s my half-sister, that was her daddy. Daniel Tiger. WN: Daniel Tiger. WH: He was a medicine man. And so my mother married him, well then I still had that polio then. I was crippled. I wasn' ; t crippled, but I just couldn' ; t get up. They just had to pat me and sit me down and lay me down. And so when she married him, we moved over there in his home, and he lived in a big house. He was a carpenter. WN: Well, he must have been. WH: Yeah, and so we moved over there and he doctored me, and I got over that polio and it didn' ; t leave me crippled or nothing. WN: Well, he must have been a wonderful medicine man. WH: There used to be a lot of them but they ain' ; t a lot now. WN: Well, they were a lot cheaper, weren' ; t they? WH: Oh yeah. You didn' ; t have to pay for the medicine like we do these doctors here. Give them a chicken or if you got uh anything you don' ; t want, just give it to him. WN: And that was his pay? WH: Yeah. I don' ; t know if they do that now or not. WN: No, I don' ; t think you could give a potato to a doctor anymore. You gotta give your arm and your leg and your purse, too. WH: Yeah. WN: Well, now let me ask you, after you were married, where did you build your first house? You went to Tulsa, you said? WH: I lived with my mother when I first married. That' ; s where this oldest boy, that' ; s where he born. WN: Oh, Wesley was born there with your mother? WH: And he was just beginning to crawl, and we got burned up. And then after that, my mother went to live my older sister, cause she was by herself, you know, so me and my husband, we had to buy a tent. We bought it from Mr. Purdy. WN: Oh, you did? WH: And lived in a tent. We lived in a tent. [Indecipherable] WN: Oh, yes, I do know how those tents used to be. WH: Well, we lived in that and then the next year, well we-- WN: How did you keep warm in the winter time? WH: It didn' ; t get cold like it do now. WN: It didn' ; t? And you lived-- WH: We lived in there and then we [indecipherable]. We planted their cotton. And then we make a little money and then we traded the Slyman, he had a grocery store, right there on the corner there. WN: On Fifth Street, wasn' ; t it? WH: Yeah. And then after that we' ; d sale that cotton and pay that grocery bill. That' ; s the way they used to pay they grocery bill. WN: You' ; d charge all winter long and then pay it when you got your crop. WH: And John Bishop was the same way. WN: Yes, he did. That' ; s what he told me one time. I said, " ; John do you ever remember a depression and being poor?" ; He said, " ; I never was poor." ; He said, " ; I always could get money from some place." ; WH: And he used to, he had a, he first had a store right there as you going out south there. You know where there' ; s a grocery store on this side, well, his store was on that side. And he had that store there, and he' ; d feed people, you know, was selling cotton. They' ; d sell the cotton and come there pay their grocery bill. John Bishop had a big gin, you know, down there [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, yes, yeah. WH: Well, he had a big gin there run by a cotton. WN: Well, he was a wealthy man, wasn' ; t he? WH: I don' ; t know where it come from. WN: Well, I' ; ll be darn. I don' ; t know where he came from, too. I think he told me one time, but I' ; ve forgotten. He said he was with, he said I made money from Tom Slick in Slick. He said I sold Tom Slick groceries, and I got rich. Let me ask you, did your mother leave you anything special that--any kind of--you said your mother left you a tea kettle. Did she leave you any other Indian things or your families? Did your mother leave you a pin or a necklace or anything? She left you something when she died? Your mother? WH: Oh, my mother? WN: Yeah. She didn' ; t leave you anything? WH: No, she didn' ; t have anything. WN: She didn' ; t have anything. Did they write wills back then? You know, like a--you didn' ; t have wills? WH: No. WN: No wills. You just gave it to them, didn' ; t you? WH: Yeah. And I know the woman who worked for Purdy. Purdy had an office right across the street there from, you know where Anthony store used to be? WN: Yes, yes. WH: Well, his office was right on that side. WN: It was on that side? WH: Yeah. And I know that woman used to--but I don' ; t know her name. And she' ; s still living here in town. WN: Oh, she is? WH: Yeah, I seen her one day down at the grocery store and I talked to her. WN: Well, I wished you' ; d think who she is so I could talk to her, too. WH: I guess she' ; s still living. I hadn' ; t seen her anymore. WN: I' ; ll be darned. Well if you think of her name, you let me know. Let me ask you, how did you all celebrate Christmas? WH: Well, we' ; d just have a dinner, just, well, not exactly like you have it now, but we' ; d have a dinner, and of course a-- WN: Did you have a tree? WH: A tree? WN: Uh huh. WH: Christmas tree? WN: No Christmas tree, just had a dinner. WH: That' ; s all. And see my step-dad would go out and shoot a wild turkey. WN: But you didn' ; t exchange presents? WH: Huh uh. WN: Didn' ; t exchange presents? WH: No. We didn' ; t. WN: Well, now can you tell me about some of the early Indian customs, like some of the things that the Indians did that the white people didn' ; t do. WH: Well, I don' ; t know. I don' ; t remember. WN: Okay. Alright. Can you remember the first automobile you ever saw? WH: Yeah. WN: Where was it? WH: T-Model. And the first car we bought from George Carman. WN: Oh, I remember Mr. Carman. WH: You do? WN: Yeah. WH: He had a big storage house right there on 11th Street there. And that' ; s where he-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0042A_Winey_Harjo.xml OHP-0042A_Winey_Harjo.xml
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Winey Harjo - Part 1
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In Part One of Winey Harjo's 1991 interview, she talks about her family history, having small pox as a child, attending school some, working in the fields, and what it was like to live in a time with no money.
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OHP-0042A
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1991-03
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Wanda Newton
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Jonas Thompson
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5.4 November 28, 1990 OHP-0041A Jonas Thompson OHP-0041A 0:00-28:08 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jonas Thompson Wanda Newton 1:|27(4)|46(2)|65(14)|79(9)|109(11)|133(15)|152(16)|184(3)|207(9)|223(9)|235(13)|260(4)|285(1)|304(2)|330(7)|350(10)|371(10)|399(6)|426(2)|444(8)|478(5)|527(6)|561(9)|578(12)|603(13)|617(10)|641(14)|676(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0041A Thompson, Jonas.mp3 Other audio 0 Early Life & ; Family WN: On November 28, 1990, I’m down at the Rainbow Nursing home, and I’m interviewing a patient who’s down here. And I want him to tell you his name and when he was born. JT: We have to do that now? WN: Yeah, you tell me your name. JT: Jonas Thompson. WN: Jonas Thompson. JT: I was born 1902. WN: 1902. And where were you born, Mr. Thompson? JT: In Alabama Jonas talks about moving from Tuscaloosa to Muskogee, and finally, to Bristow. Alabama ; family ; farming ; Indians ; Muskogee ; Tuscaloosa early life ; family 114 Cotton Farming WN: What did you raise on that farm? JT: Mostly cotton. WN: Did you work in the cotton field? JT: Sure! Picked cotton and chopped cotton. WN: Do you remember the most you ever did? JT: Well, I did a lot of that picking cotton. I used to, after I got grown, I’d pick through 580 pounds a day. WN: What’s the most money you ever made picking cotton on a day? Do you remember? JT: Well, it wasn’t paying very much. I don’t remember what we was getting, but I think it was right at a dollar, dollar and a half maybe. Jonas talks about picking and chopping cotton and how much he made from working on his family's cotton farm. chopping cotton ; cotton ; earnings ; farming ; Muskogee ; picking cotton Cotton farming 316 Food WN: Well, what about your food? Do you remember your mother making soap or killing hogs? JT: Yeah, we killed hogs and had soap. WN: Well, tell me how you did the hogs. Do you remember how you did the hogs? JT: Yeah, we kill them and put ‘em on a [indecipherable] and feed them that yellow dead corn for four, five, six months and then take ‘em out and, I tell ya, they was in good shape. WN: Well, how did you kill ‘em? JT: Take ‘em out there with an ax, one of them ball-faced ax, as I call it. WN: Uh huh. On the farm, they slaughtered hogs for food and stored them in the smoke house. food ; food theft ; hogs ; poor ; slaughtering ; smoke house ; soap 484 Attending School WN: Were you able to attend school? JT: Oh yeah. We went to school at the old place when we come from Muskogee here, we lived close to Tallahassee, we called it. We went to school up there at Tallahassee. WN: Was it a one-room school or? JT: Yeah, it was a one house school. WN: How far did you have to walk? JT: Oh, about three miles to school. That was the only way we could get there is to walk. If walking was bad, my dad would carry us up there in a bucket. Jonas tells about what it was like to attend school when he was young. books ; lunch ; Muskogee ; reading ; school ; Tallahassee 596 Chores WN: And you had chores to do after school? JT: Yeah, I had to feed the hogs and the chickens. Other than that, that’s probably all we had to do. Of course, after we moved up there, the rest of us [indecipherable] had chickens to feed. Of course, that was several years after we moved from Muskogee. We stayed in Muskogee six months before we found a place to move. We didn’t want to stay in town. They wanted to raise us in the country. Wanted to learn how to pick cotton and chop cotton, so that’s where we moved. Jonas had to feed the chickens and the hogs after school. chores ; feeding livestock ; Muskogee ; picking cotton Chores 639 Home Life WN: Do you remember any of the dust storms we used to have? JT: Oh yeah, we used to have them things so bad. It was so dusty you couldn’t see hardly. Yeah, it was bad. It looked like sundown in a cave it was so dusty. I mean that dust would choke you. WN: What kind of a house did you live in? JT: Well, just an ordinary, plain house. WN: How many rooms were there? JT: Let’s see, there was three rooms if I can remember. WN: Can you remember when you got…or tell me about how did you study? You had coal oil lamps or kerosene lamps? JT: Yes, coal oil lamps. Even though they were poor, Jonas talks about never being cold or hungry. They didn't really have money, so they traded for the things they needed. coal oil lamps ; dust storms ; home ; outdoor Johnnies ; poor ; The Depression ; trading home life 752 Church Life WN: Well, what about your religious training? Did you attend church regularly? JT: Well, after I got old enough I did, cause then I went to Sunday school. Had a primer you called it. You remember a primer? WN: Yes I do. I remember that. JT: That’s the only book I had, a primer. Went to school up there from Tallahassee. [indecipherable]. WN: Where is that exactly? Can you tell me where that Tallahassee school is not there now. JT: I know it isn’t. It was north of Muskogee. I’m trying to remember. That’s been several years ago. Jonas talks about attending Sunday school. church ; primer ; Sunday school ; Tallahassee Church life 802 Indian Relations & ; Integration WN: Well, how about the Indians, then, were you all… JT: Well, we wasn’t bothered too much with the Indians cause they [indecipherable]. Of course, there was quite a bunch of them around here at that time. WN: Well, can you tell me of any bad incidences that happened to you or anything between the whites the blacks before integration? JT: No. Never have had that. I’ve been very fortunate. WN: Well, I think in our community we’ve always had good relationships, don’t you think? JT: Yeah, that’s true. They are very nice. Jonas recalls Indian relations being good and desegregation being a positive experience. Freedmen ; Indians ; integration ; The Depression Indian relations ; segregation 916 Social Life WN: Well, let me ask you, what did you do for your social life? How did you entertain each other? JT: Well, just go to someone’s home and entertain them, talk and [indecipherable] back then. WN: Did you ever go to any dances? JT: Oh, no. After I got grown, I did. But I never could dance. My feet would be in the way. I never could dance. I was ashamed of myself [indecipherable]. Couldn’t dance. WN: Were you ever in the service at all? JT: No. Sure wasn’t. A social life for Jonas included visiting a friend's house. He didn't attend dances until he was older but said he could never get the hang of dancing. dances ; social life ; visiting friends social life 1059 Food Storage WN: Do you remember anything about when you, how you kept your food from spoiling in your home? JT: We had an old smoke house. It was a pretty good smoke house. WN: How did you keep things cool? Did you have a spring? JT: Spring? WN: Uh huh. JT: Yeah we had a spring about a quarter from the house, west of the, I mean, yeah, west of the house. I mean south of the house. It was about a quarter down there to the spring. Jonas talks about the various ways they kept food from spoiling. food storage ; smoke house ; spring ; well food storage 1126 Discipline WN: Do you remember anything, in particular, about your childhood, like a spanking? Did you ever get a spanking at school? JT: Oh yeah. WN: You did? JT: I was bad, I guess. It must have been. I got it. WN: Was the discipline, do you remember, a teacher that disciplined you particularly for something horrible you did? You don’t remember anything that you got the spanking for? JT: Well, I guess I was bad. I didn’t get my lessons done, maybe? Jonas talks about getting a spanking when he misbehaved. childhood ; discipline ; spanking discipline 1180 Medical Treatment WN: Can you tell me any kind of medicines that you used to take? When you had something, and ear ache or anything, can you remember anything that your mother used to do for you? JT: Yeah, they’d put some kind of, uh, let’s see, what kind of oil you call that? I forget the name of it. But they’d put that in your ear. WN: Do you remember going to the doctor or anything? JT: Oh, no, we never go to no doctor. We’d always have a home remedy of some kind. You wouldn’t have to go to the doctor. WN: If you had a stomach ache, she gave you something? JT: Yeah, some turpentine. Jonas tells about home remedies they used and how much he loved Dr. King. doctor ; Dr. King ; medicine ; turpentine medical treatment 1258 Family WN: Jonas can you tell me where your father came from? JT: From Alabama. WN: He came from Alabama, too. And your mother was from Alabama, too? JT: Uh huh. WN: How many children did you have, Jonas? JT: How many? WN: Uh huh. JT: Me? WN: Uh huh. JT: One. WN: One? JT: A daughter. WN: A daughter? JT: Yes. She lives in Chicago. Jonas tells of his parents coming here from Alabama and having one daughter that lives in Chicago. Alabama ; Chicago ; church ; daughter ; father family 1378 Integration WN: I’m glad. But now, Jonas, tell me about integration of the school and how it affected you with desegregation. Do you think… JT: No, we didn’t have that. All them kids I went to school with was just as nice, like I was one of the family. WN: Do you think that it had been better since we integrated, or do you think, how do you feel about that? JT: I think it was a good thing. We are all human beings. God made us all. We shouldn’t be separated from one another in my book. Jonas describes how integration affected him. integration ; kindness integration 1436 Nursing Home Life WN: Alright, now then, tell me how you feel about your old, your aging process with how has it affected your life since you’ve given up your home and come to the nursing home. Can you tell us how you feel about that? JT: Well, I kinda hate to leave my home cause that was on account of my leg, I had to, but we still had it so, the Lord willing, some day we may go back there. WN: Well, that’s true. JT: Yeah, your brother is waiting for me and I’ll be here [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, that would be wonderful. Have you got another leg to replace that one that’s missing? JT: Then I’ll go back home. Jonas is hopeful to return to his own home at some point, but due to his leg, had to move to the nursing home. nursing home nursing home 1488 Things to Remember WN: Alright, now, Jonas before we sign off, is there anything that you’d like to say to leave a message or anything for the people who come after us? This is going to be in the library for anybody to listen to a tape to check if there looking back for any ancestors or? Is there anything that you’d like to say? JT: What’d you mean? Jonas is thankful people were always nice to him and believes you should treat people how you want to be treated. kindness kindness 1613 Dr. King JT: You know I think about old Dr. K (ph), he was a wonderful doctor. WN: Yes he was, and very generous, wasn’t he? JT: Oh yeah. I bet he pays for a lot of people owe him. I bet so! I wouldn’t be surprised if people owed that old doctor. Not a better doctor that ever walked on his feet. He was. I loved him. WN: I think a lot of people love Dr. King. Jonas tells about how much he loved Dr. King and what a wonderful doctor he was. Dr. King ; kindness Dr. King MP3 In this 1990 interview with Jonas Thompson, he talks about moving from Alabama to Muskogee and, finally, to Bristow. He talks about his family, early life and what it was like growing up on a cotton farm. Even though times were tough, he talks about the importance of kindness. WN: On November 28, 1990, I' ; m down at the Rainbow Nursing home, and I' ; m interviewing a patient who' ; s down here. And I want him to tell you his name and when he was born. JT: We have to do that now? WN: Yeah, you tell me your name. JT: Jonas Thompson. WN: Jonas Thompson. JT: I was born 1902. WN: 1902. And where were you born, Mr. Thompson? JT: In Alabama. WN: Can you tell me where in Alabama? JT: Well, as far as I know it was Tuscaloosa, they called it. Tuscaloosa. WN: Tuscaloosa. How long did you live there? JT: Oh Lord, I guess I was pretty near a grown man. We come in to Muskogee from Alabama. And we stayed there in Muskogee, I think, about six months, and my dad found a place west of Muskogee [indecipherable] on a bridge and run on west about three miles, west of there, from that bridge. We stayed down on that farm and farmed it for, oh I don' ; t know, several years. WN: Were you tenant famers or did you own the land? JT: No, no, it belonged to an Indian. We stayed there, I guess, four or five years, and, finally, moved off of that place. WN: Do you remember the Indian' ; s name? JT: No, I don' ; t. It' ; s been so long. It belonged to him. WN: Wasn' ; t that your mother and daddy, now, with you? JT: Yeah, and my brother. I had three brothers and two sisters. WN: What did you raise on that farm? JT: Mostly cotton. WN: Did you work in the cotton field? JT: Sure! Picked cotton and chopped cotton. WN: Do you remember the most you ever did? JT: Well, I did a lot of that picking cotton. I used to, after I got grown, I' ; d pick through 580 pounds a day. WN: What' ; s the most money you ever made picking cotton on a day? Do you remember? JT: Well, it wasn' ; t paying very much. I don' ; t remember what we was getting, but I think it was right at a dollar, dollar and a half maybe. WN: For the whole day or? JT: Yeah, sure. Maybe one and a half or two dollars. That was way back then, you know. Times was tough and bad. We finally moved off that place then. We moved to Muskogee and stayed in Muskogee six months. Then after that, we moved here. Right here in Bristow, Oklahoma from Muskogee. We rented that place, and we finally moved off that place and moved onto another place. I don' ; t know just how far we did go west, but it was quite a little ways. That' ; s all I know about is farming, picking cotton and chopping cotton, picking cotton. WN: When did you come to Bristow? JT: From Muskogee? WN: Uh huh. JT: Well, we stayed there six months and then left Muskogee, and I don' ; t remember just exactly when we come here to Bristow. I was quite a boy at that time, you know. I was born in 1902, so I was pretty young. WN: Can you remember any kind of stories your mother and daddy ever told you? JT: Well, it' ; s been so long. I don' ; t know. WN: Were they, do you remember, did they say anything about slavery in those days or do you remember anything about your grandparents? JT: No, I don' ; t remember. WN: Do you remember, uh-- JT: I do remember my grandma. WN: You remember your grandma. JT: Yeah. WN: Did she come from the south with you? JT: Yeah. No. She come over here with some other people. WN: Oh. JT: And we all come here with daddy and mother. WN: How did you get here? JT: Well, we come from Alabama to Muskogee and dad rented us a place west of Muskogee. WN: I know, but how did you travel? JT: Oh, uh, most of the time we was in the [indecipherable] didn' ; t have no cars then. I don' ; t remember a car at all then. WN: Well, what about your food? Do you remember your mother making soap or killing hogs? JT: Yeah, we killed hogs and had soap. WN: Well, tell me how you did the hogs. Do you remember how you did the hogs? JT: Yeah, we kill them and put ' ; em on a [indecipherable] and feed them that yellow dead corn for four, five, six months and then take ' ; em out and, I tell ya, they was in good shape. WN: Well, how did you kill ' ; em? JT: Take ' ; em out there with an ax, one of them ball-faced ax, as I call it. WN: Uh huh. JT: Had big on one end and other part on the other end was [indecipherable] have someone hold it with a rope so it wouldn' ; t run off. Then my dad would always hit him right between his eyes. WN: And it killed him instantly? JT: Yeah, it killed him. Dead as door nail. WN: Well, how did you handle him then? JT: Well, after you' ; d do that, he would fall over, and the time he would fall over, and my dad had a big long knife. He would stick that knife through his heart, and he' ; d go to bleeding. Then he' ; d bleed out all that blood out of him. Then he' ; d take him up there and lay him on a table. They' ; d cool a little bit, then cut him up, cut the hams up, have them all set, and the ribs, and all that. Neck and feet and then have him ready to put in a pot to eat. WN: Well, did you have a smoke house? JT: Oh yeah, we had an old smoke house. It wasn' ; t too good, but we had to put it in there because we didn' ; t have another place to put it. So it happened one night, dad had butchered a hog, two, three hogs, and we got up one morning and one of them was gone. WN: Oh! What happened? JT: Guess somebody that didn' ; t have no meat come and got it. WN: Oh, I bet your daddy was angry, wasn' ; t he? JT: Huh? WN: Was your father angry? JT: Well, I don' ; t think he was too angry because times was tough back then. WN: Yeah. JT: I' ; m telling you it was tough days back then that time. WN: Do you ever remember being hungry? JT: No, I don' ; t. He sure was good about trying to have food his children. There was eight boys and three girls. WN: How wonderful. JT: And I know sometimes I wonder how he feed all of us. WN: And how did he clothe you? JT: Well, some way or another, I don' ; t know hardly how he did it, but he already had something for us to put on. WN: Were you able to attend school? JT: Oh yeah. We went to school at the old place when we come from Muskogee here, we lived close to Tallahassee, we called it. We went to school up there at Tallahassee. WN: Was it a one-room school or? JT: Yeah, it was a one house school. WN: How far did you have to walk? JT: Oh, about three miles to school. That was the only way we could get there is to walk. If walking was bad, my dad would carry us up there in a bucket. WN: What did you do for your lunch? JT: Well, we carry us a lunch from home to school. WN: What did you usually have for lunch? JT: Well, most of the time just some biscuits and, uh, butter mixed in that biscuit. Of course, it' ; d eat good then. I don' ; t know how it' ; d eat now. That was good eatin' ; .WN: Well, of course it was. JT: Yeah. Always have some kind of sweet, a cookie, or something to mix with it. WN: How about your books? How did you get your books? JT: Dad got ' ; em some way. I don' ; t know how he got ' ; em but he had my books. I always had me a reader, it' ; s what you called it, and then dad would teach us how to read, learned how to read. WN: You saw that you got your lessons after school? JT: Oh yeah. WN: And you had chores to do after school? JT: Yeah, I had to feed the hogs and the chickens. Other than that, that' ; s probably all we had to do. Of course, after we moved up there, the rest of us [indecipherable] had chickens to feed. Of course, that was several years after we moved from Muskogee. We stayed in Muskogee six months before we found a place to move. We didn' ; t want to stay in town. They wanted to raise us in the country. Wanted to learn how to pick cotton and chop cotton, so that' ; s where we moved. WN: Do you remember any of the dust storms we used to have? JT: Oh yeah, we used to have them things so bad. It was so dusty you couldn' ; t see hardly. Yeah, it was bad. It looked like sundown in a cave it was so dusty. I mean that dust would choke you. WN: What kind of a house did you live in? JT: Well, just an ordinary, plain house. WN: How many rooms were there? JT: Let' ; s see, there was three rooms if I can remember. WN: Can you remember when you got--or tell me about how did you study? You had coal oil lamps or kerosene lamps? JT: Yes, coal oil lamps. WN: And outdoor Johnnies. JT: Yeah. WN: Yeah, I remember those. I remember one time a chicken pecked me on an outdoor Johnny and I thought I was snake bit! But anyway, do you remember being very poor during the depression? JT: Oh yeah. We was poor. Hard times. Money--we didn' ; t have no money then. Money was something that was kind of unusual. WN: You just kind of traded around? JT: Yeah, tried to do right and the best we could. WN: I remember my daddy taking potatoes in sometime for payments and just whatever you could get is what you took, wasn' ; t it? JT: Yeah. It was hard times. I' ; m telling you, it was rough. WN: Were you ever cold and hungry? JT: Well, no, not probably cold because we had daddy' ; s [indecipherable] and plenty of wood. Of course, we weren' ; t living in that good of a house, but we had plenty of wood to keep us warm and dry. WN: Well, what about your religious training? Did you attend church regularly? JT: Well, after I got old enough I did, cause then I went to Sunday school. Had a primer you called it. You remember a primer? WN: Yes I do. I remember that. JT: That' ; s the only book I had, a primer. Went to school up there from Tallahassee. [indecipherable]. WN: Where is that exactly? Can you tell me where that Tallahassee school is not there now. JT: I know it isn' ; t. It was north of Muskogee. I' ; m trying to remember. That' ; s been several years ago. WN: Well, how about the Indians, then, were you all-- JT: Well, we wasn' ; t bothered too much with the Indians cause they [indecipherable]. Of course, there was quite a bunch of them around here at that time. WN: Well, can you tell me of any bad incidences that happened to you or anything between the whites the blacks before integration? JT: No. Never have had that. I' ; ve been very fortunate. WN: Well, I think in our community we' ; ve always had good relationships, don' ; t you think? JT: Yeah, that' ; s true. They are very nice. WN: And everybody tries to help one another. JT: Yeah. If you didn' ; t have a good problem, I made a good problem [indecipherable] they' ; re good about that. WN: That' ; s wonderful. JT: People are nice. They was all nice. The Indians, I called them the Freedmen. They was all nice to me. WN: Can you tell me a little bit about the Freedmen? JT: The who? WN: The Freedmens. JT: Well, all I can say about them is they was really nice. They treated people like they wanted to be treated. WN: But let me ask you this, do you remember anything about The Depression at all? JT: Well, no I can' ; t remember too much about The Depression, because we always had something to eat and a house to live in. It wasn' ; t a good one, but we still had to live in that. And dad always had plenty of wood. That was the only way we could keep warm was plenty of wood and food to eat. WN: Well, let me ask you, what did you do for your social life? How did you entertain each other? JT: Well, just go to someone' ; s home and entertain them, talk and [indecipherable] back then. WN: Did you ever go to any dances? JT: Oh, no. After I got grown, I did. But I never could dance. My feet would be in the way. I never could dance. I was ashamed of myself [indecipherable]. Couldn' ; t dance. WN: Were you ever in the service at all? JT: No. Sure wasn' ; t. WN: Do you remember your mother and father ever telling about the Civil War or anything, or your grandmother, or anything like that? JT: Grandmother had passed several years after we come here. WN: And where was she buried? Do you remember that? JT: I sure don' ; t. I don' ; t remember where she was buried. WN: Do you remember how it was in early Bristow down here? Do you remember Bristow in the early days at all? JT: Well, no not in the early days. I don' ; t remember. WN: Now, about when did you come to Bristow, did you say? Do you have any idea when you came to Bristow? JT: Let' ; s see, I don' ; t remember exactly when we come here to Bristow. Not exact. WN: Can you tell me kinda sorta when you came? Was it in the 20' ; s or the 30' ; s or? JT: Let' ; s see, it must have been in the 20' ; s, I guess. WN: Did you ever work in the oil fields? JT: Never worked in no oil fields. The only thing I did was chopped cotton and picked cotton. WN: Who, what--do you remember any of the early people that you worked for? Do you remember going to the cotton mills? Do you remember the Bishop' ; s or the? JT: No, didn' ; t really know the Bishop' ; s. [Indecipherable] Dad already took his cotton to the gin. WN: Yeah. JT: [Indecipherable] WN: Do you remember anything about when you, how you kept your food from spoiling in your home? JT: We had an old smoke house. It was a pretty good smoke house. WN: How did you keep things cool? Did you have a spring? JT: Spring? WN: Uh huh. JT: Yeah we had a spring about a quarter from the house, west of the, I mean, yeah, west of the house. I mean south of the house. It was about a quarter down there to the spring. WN: And you kept things, did you keep things in the spring sometime? JT: Yeah [indecipherable] kind of a well, but it was just about eight or ten feet deep. We' ; d always put the stuff down in there for it to keep. We didn' ; t have no icebox or deep freeze or nothing. WN: You didn' ; t have a well by your house that you had dug or anything like that? JT: There was an old there when we moved. WN: Oh, there was a well? JT: Dug well. It was about 20-30 feet deep. WN: Do you remember anything, in particular, about your childhood, like a spanking? Did you ever get a spanking at school? JT: Oh yeah. WN: You did? JT: I was bad, I guess. It must have been. I got it. WN: Was the discipline, do you remember, a teacher that disciplined you particularly for something horrible you did? You don' ; t remember anything that you got the spanking for? JT: Well, I guess I was bad. I didn' ; t get my lessons done, maybe? WN: How do you think our boys and girls of today compare, like if they' ; d say, you were bad. You' ; d think they would laugh at what you were bad for, wouldn' ; t they? JT: Yeah, they would. WN: Yeah, they would. WN: Can you tell me any kind of medicines that you used to take? When you had something, and ear ache or anything, can you remember anything that your mother used to do for you? JT: Yeah, they' ; d put some kind of, uh, let' ; s see, what kind of oil you call that? I forget the name of it. But they' ; d put that in your ear. WN: Do you remember going to the doctor or anything? JT: Oh, no, we never go to no doctor. We' ; d always have a home remedy of some kind. You wouldn' ; t have to go to the doctor. WN: If you had a stomach ache, she gave you something? JT: Yeah, some turpentine. WN: Yes, I can remember my grandmother used to put my hand in turpentine if I cut it or anything. JT: Yeah. WN: Or if I cut something, sometimes she' ; d sprinkle salt all over it. JT: Yeah, that turpentine was a big medicine back then. WN: Yes. Do you remember Dr. King? JT: Oh, Lord, yes. He was a good a doctor as ever walked on two feet in my book. WN: Yes, and he was kind to everybody. JT: Yes, he was. I bet he died [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, sure you know they did. JT: I bet that' ; s true. WN: I' ; m telling you when my father died-- WN: Jonas can you tell me where your father came from? JT: From Alabama. WN: He came from Alabama, too. And your mother was from Alabama, too? JT: Uh huh. WN: How many children did you have, Jonas? JT: How many? WN: Uh huh. JT: Me? WN: Uh huh. JT: One. WN: One? JT: A daughter. WN: A daughter? JT: Yes. She lives in Chicago. WN: Is she still living? JT: Yeah, she lives in Chicago. WN: Does she ever get to come down here? JT: Oh yeah. Quite often. WN: That' ; s wonderful. JT: Yeah, she sure is sweet and she is mine. WN: You probably raised her right. JT: I sure did. WN: Do you remember any disasters that you had, any tornadoes or any floods or? JT: No. Never was in none of that. WN: Never was in any of those? Do you remember any kind of hobbies that you ever had. Did you ever do anything musical, Jonas, or did you ever wood carve, or did you sing with your church or? JT: Oh yeah. I' ; d go to church and sang up in the church. WN: And you sang in the church? Can you remember anybody in Bristow that was important to you, that helped you in any way? Do you remember any early people that? JT: Way back? WN: Or anytime in your life that was a good friend to you. JT: For one, I' ; ll say one, your brother' ; s one of them. WN: Oh really? JT: He' ; s a main [indecipherable] to me. WN: That' ; s a nice thing to say, Jonas. JT: He is. That' ; s the truth. I think so much of your brother. WN: Well, good. JT: He sure is a loving person. WN: Well, that' ; s-- JT: And I believe he' ; d do anything, God willing, for me. WN: Well, that' ; s nice, Jonas. JT: He is. He' ; s really nice. I think a lot of him. WN: I' ; m glad. But now, Jonas, tell me about integration of the school and how it affected you with desegregation. Do you think-- JT: No, we didn' ; t have that. All them kids I went to school with was just as nice, like I was one of the family. WN: Do you think that it had been better since we integrated, or do you think, how do you feel about that? JT: I think it was a good thing. We are all human beings. God made us all. We shouldn' ; t be separated from one another in my book. WN: That' ; s in my book, too. JT: That' ; s right. I sure mean this is the best way it ought to be. Not segregated at all cause God made one and made us all. WN: Alright, now then, tell me how you feel about your old, your aging process with how has it affected your life since you' ; ve given up your home and come to the nursing home. Can you tell us how you feel about that? JT: Well, I kinda hate to leave my home cause that was on account of my leg, I had to, but we still had it so, the Lord willing, some day we may go back there. WN: Well, that' ; s true. JT: Yeah, your brother is waiting for me and I' ; ll be here [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, that would be wonderful. Have you got another leg to replace that one that' ; s missing? JT: Then I' ; ll go back home. WN: Yeah. JT: Then I' ; ll [indecipherable]. He' ; s a nice person. I think so much of him. WN: Well, at least he' ; ll try. JT: I know it. He' ; s a good person. WN: Alright, now, Jonas before we sign off, is there anything that you' ; d like to say to leave a message or anything for the people who come after us? This is going to be in the library for anybody to listen to a tape to check if there looking back for any ancestors or? Is there anything that you' ; d like to say? JT: What' ; d you mean? WN: Well, I mean would you like to tell us anything, any kind of advice you' ; d like to give for the people that are going to come after us that we don' ; t even know about or is there any story you' ; d like to tell for them to remember about your early days? What would you like to leave for our heritage for these people that are coming after us? JT: Well, one thing I' ; d like to leave is, as far as I know, since I' ; ve been big enough to know anything, I' ; ve been very fortunate to have the people being nice to me. I' ; ve never been pushed back or nothing like that. I' ; ve been where I can really enjoy. Of course, now some people said people was kind of selfish, but I have never been [indecipherable]. WN: Well you get what you give out, don' ; t you? JT: Yeah, that' ; s true though. You be nice, then people will be nice to you. WN: That' ; s right. JT: But now, you get up and get ugly, then they will, too! WN: That' ; s right. My mother used to say when I' ; d say, " ; Make Kenneth stop doing that." ; She' ; d say, " ; Every ugly thing he knows, you taught him. Shame on you." ; JT: But that is true. You be nice to people and more than likely they going to turn the same thing back to you. WN: That' ; s right. JT: You know I think about old Dr. K (ph), he was a wonderful doctor. WN: Yes he was, and very generous, wasn' ; t he? JT: Oh yeah. I bet he pays for a lot of people owe him. I bet so! I wouldn' ; t be surprised if people owed that old doctor. Not a better doctor that ever walked on his feet. He was. I loved him. WN: I think a lot of people love Dr. King. JT: Yeah, I sure did. And like I said, a lot of people were waiting for him when he died. WN: That' ; s right. JT: Because he' ; d sure come. He told me he everyone at our house was sick and it was at night and checked to see how I was doing. WN: Isn' ; t that wonderful? JT: Oh, he was lovely. WN: Yes, we were fortunate to have Dr. King. JT: That' ; s right. WN: We were all young. JT: He was about a good a doctor that ever walked on two feet. WN: That' ; s right. JT: It makes me cry to think about it. WN: Well, don' ; t weep with tears, Jonas. We gotta sign off on a happy note. I want to thank Jonas for talking with me today, and so-- JT: Oh, I enjoyed it! WN: Well, I' ; m glad you did. JT: And I want to say again, I think about you and your brother, God bless you. WN: Well, thank you. JT: Kenneth will do anything, I believe, for me. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0041A_Jonas_Thompson.xml OHP-0041A_Jonas_Thompson.xml
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Jonas Thompson
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In this 1990 interview with Jonas Thompson, he talks about moving from Alabama to Muskogee and, finally, to Bristow. He talks about his family, early life and what it was like growing up on a cotton farm. Even though times were tough, he talks about the importance of kindness.
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OHP-0041A
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1990-11-28
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Ed Cadenhead
Interviewee
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Curt Gillaspie
Jack Carman
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml
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5.4 June 7, 1979 OHP-0040B Curt Gillaspie OHP-0040B 0:00-23:45 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Curt Gillaspie Jack Carman Ed Cadenhead 1:|11(7)|53(2)|67(15)|74(9)|90(8)|105(5)|117(10)|135(15)|144(1)|153(8)|168(2)|175(4)|186(10)|190(5)|196(7)|204(2)|220(2)|232(8)|245(14)|264(4)|276(14)|292(5)|301(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0040B Gillaspie, Curt.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn’t want [inaudible] that’s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn’t want us to drink. Curt tells about coming to Bristow from Harrisonville, MO and what about what his dad did for a living. black smith ; cotton wagons ; general mercantile ; grist mill ; Harrisonville, Missouri Family History 62 Early Memories EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn’t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn’t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton’s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn’t do it, then two of them would jump on them. Curtis remembers Mrs. West as one of his teachers and getting into fist fights alongside Walter Reed. He recalls Walter giving his adversary a " ; dinner bucket massage" ; . cotton wagon ; dinner bucket massage ; fist fights ; Mrs. West ; school ; Walter Reed Early Memories 256 Jobs EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They’d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don’t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let’s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren’t you? CG: Oh yeah. American LeFrance ; fire chief ; fire department ; lumbar yard fire ; Model T Ford ; oil boom ; unloading box cars ; volunteer department 461 Interesting People EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone… EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. Curtis tells about interesting people he remembers such as George Carman, A.H. Stone and Billy Freshour. A.H. Stone ; Ben Greenwood ; Billy Freshour ; first brick building ; George Carman ; jail ; making brick ; oil boom ; police chief ; US Marshal 619 Bank Robberies EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. Curt tell about hearing the Community State Bank robbery when he was standing at 8th and Main. bank robbery ; Community State Bank 659 Indian Relations EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn’t talk to you. They’d have an Indian girl, she’d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She’d come in the shop, and she’d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She’d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she’d turn around and tell my father. When he’d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He’d say, “How much do you owe me?” And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he’d open it up and he’d get out some money. Then when he’d get ready to put it back in the sack, he’d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. The Indians had interpreters and lived on allotments. allotments ; Creek Freedmen ; Hannah Brown ; Indians ; interpreter ; Newby Creek Freedmen ; Indian Relations 967 Dance Hall EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven’t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that’s where Kemp’s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they’d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. Curtis tells about the dance hall in the back of Bristow Drug Store. Jack tells about Dick Cahill's pool hall. Bristow Drug Store ; dance hall ; Dick Cahill ; Kemp's ; oil boom ; pool hall ; snuff Dance Hall ; Pool Hall 1107 Traveling from Missouri EC: You’re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We’d have to stop and put…[inaudible]. It took Curt's family 15 days to travel 300 miles by covered wagon from Harrisonville, MO. Arkansas River ; covered wagon ; ferry ; Harrisonville, Missouri 1148 Story about Jack Abraham JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven’t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we’d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we’d beat ‘em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. Jack tells the story of trapping a opossum with Jack Abraham and selling the hide to Curt's dad. grist mill ; hides ; Jack Abraham ; opossum ; trapping 1255 Oklahoma Statehood EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn’t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. Curt recalls Oklahoma's statehood, elections, and Indian Territory. Jack tells a story about hunting with his dad and Curt. 1907 ; election ; hunting ; Indian Nation ; Indian Territory ; statehood ; Tom Flynn Hunting ; Oklahoma Statehood In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator' ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. EC: Your name is Curt Gillaspie? CG: Yeah. EC: And when did you come to Bristow? CG: 1901 EC: Did your parents bring you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Where did they come from? CG: Harrisonville, Missouri. EC: Why did they come to Bristow? Do you know? CG: Well, they didn' ; t want [inaudible] that' ; s where we lived, a German settlement and they drank quite a bit and mother didn' ; t want us to drink. EC: Ah. What kind of business was he in? Was he-- CG: He was a blacksmith and a they had a general mercantile store and a [indecipherable] grist mill. EC: You were born here, when? CG: Oh no. EC: Oh no. You came-- CG: When I was about three-years-old. EC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Bristow? CG: Oh, there was cotton wagons that had main street blocked. Everybody raised cotton. They didn' ; t have much money. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? CG: Oh yes. EC: What do you remember about the school? CG: Well, Mrs. West was my first teacher. She was the sister to Mrs. Joe Abraham. She had one son and his name is Van (ph) West, and he hadn' ; t seen me in 25 years. He came the other day and paid me a visit and took me out to dinner. We went over to Cotton' ; s for dinner. EC: Did you ever get in any trouble while you were in school? CG: Oh yeah, we had some little fist fights. We had some boys that could whoop every boy in town, and if one of them couldn' ; t do it, then two of them would jump on them. EC: Yeah. CG: When we was coming one night from school, one of the boys was a fellow by the name of Walter Reed (ph) and he had a gallon dinner bucket with some dishes in it that he carried for his dinner bucket. One of these boys keeps pushing one of them up on him and he eased over to me and said, " ; You keep that one off of me and I' ; ll whoop that fellow." ; I said, " ; Well, I' ; ll try." ; I got back and got me a pop bottle with a short neck, it was about that long. Old Walter, he was giving him a dinner bucket massage, and the blood was running. The other fellow, he run up there, McKay (ph) was his name, and he started to get into the fight. I pushed him back, and I hit him right between the ears with that pop bottle and it went about three foot high. And that old boy got me down, and Walter had to come over and give him a little massage and then I could handle him. So, we both got a lickin' ; from the professor for that. EC: Did you work any as a kid in town? CG: Oh yeah. My father had a store, and I had to work unloading cars. They' ; d sell a car load of feed, and, oh, I don' ; t know, bunch of wheat in the spring of the year. And then they had the delivery team and I had to drive that. EC: These were box cars coming in? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Trains? EC: Well, let' ; s see, you worked as a, what, fire station? Chief of the fire station, weren' ; t you? CG: Oh yeah. EC: What was that like? What kind of equipment did you start out with? CG: Oh, we started out with an old Model T Ford. Then we got an American LeFrance. We had it for years. Then we got a Chevrolet fire truck in ' ; 38, and it' ; s still down there. Now they got them Fords and Chevrolets. [Inaudible] EC: Was this a volunteer fire department at one time? CG: Yeah, we had 15 members, and we had three paid men. And then after it got, let' ; s see, ' ; 33, it became partially paid and partially volunteer and it' ; s still that way. EC: What were some of the biggest fires or emergencies that happened while you were working there? CG: Well, the old Pickton (ph) Lumber Yard was pretty bad. You just don' ; t put them lumber yard fires out. EC: When did you start with the fire station? CG: Well, I started when I was 20, I think. 1920. EC: Okay, 1920. So, you were there during at least part of the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. EC: How far out of town did the fire station operate? CG: Oh, we didn' ; t really go out of town. We didn' ; t take the fire trucks because it would take so long out of duty and didn' ; t [indecipherable] come back in service. EC: Well, who were some of the most interesting people that have lived in Bristow over these years that you remember? CG: Oh, George Carman (ph), Old Man Stone-- EC: What was interesting about George Carman (ph)? CG: Well, he was a hardware man. He built the first brick building in Bristow. And [indecipherable] there was another brick building. They made the brick down there on 7th Street and burned them with wood, cured them with wood. EC: Who else do you think of? CG: Uncle Billy Freshour, he was the old United States Marshal. He was 80-years-old and they appointed him Chief of Police during the oil boom because they was having so much trouble of putting people in jail. Ben Greenwood was the mayor. He said that, my goodness, said the whole police force can' ; t do nothing but put them in jail. Said then " ; How' ; s that 80-year-old man?" ; Ben Greenwood said, " ; Well, I' ; d like to put him on and try him." ; So he wasn' ; t on very long, so they had a big street fight down there on 7th and Main. He told the desk sergeant, he said, " ; Johnny, take care of the desk, and I' ; ll bring the boys up." ; So he went down there and slapped one of them old big boys on the shoulder and said, " ; You' ; ll have to go up to the station." ; He said, " ; You couldn' ; t take me anywhere." ; And he hauled off and slapped Uncle Bill down and he just rolled over on his belly and pulled out the little .38. When the smoke cleared away there was two of them laying on the pavement. And he got up and said, " ; Now boys, if you don' ; t want to see some strange faces in hell, get to walking towards the police station. I' ; ll be behind you with the little gun." ; EC: Oh my. Were you around at the time of either of the big bank robberies that I heard about? CG: Oh yeah. EC: Did you see any of it? CG: I heard it. I was standing on the corner of 8th and Main. [Indecipherable] was the first one, I think, at the Community State, and then the [indecipherable] held the other one up. EC: Speaking of Indians, since you were here earlier than most, what do you remember about the relationship between the, I guess, the full bloods and the people in Bristow? CG: Well, the full bloods wouldn' ; t talk to you. They' ; d have an Indian girl, she' ; d be an interpreter, but they could talk, speak English. Hannah Brown (ph) was an interpreter. She' ; d come in the shop, and she' ; d say so-in-so wants his horse shot. And father would ask her, [indecipherable]. She' ; d ask the Indians, do you want [indecipherable] and then she' ; d turn around and tell my father. When he' ; d get through, why the Indian, he would speak a little Indian. He would turn his back to my father. He' ; d say, " ; How much do you owe me?" ; And he had his money in a tobacco sack and he' ; d open it up and he' ; d get out some money. Then when he' ; d get ready to put it back in the sack, he' ; d turn the sack from my father and put it back in. EC: Where did most of the Indians that came into Bristow live? CG: Well, they had allotments. You' ; d take, uh, you had some Creek Freedmens here. Creek Freedmen is a slave for the Creek Indians back east where they came from. And they got allotments, too, the Creek Freedmen. Oh, I don' ; t, can' ; t remember who all was Creek Freedmens that I knew. I forgot. [inaudible] Well, he was the United States Marshal under [inaudible]. He was the leader of the Indians. Well, we had old Billy Vann (ph) down in Newby. He kind looked after that bunch of colored boys down there. And we had, oh, there' ; s three or four around. And some white fellow had trouble with some of those colored boys. My dad would go tell them, " ; Now boys we' ; d like to have you around here as neighbors. Let' ; s straighten up and fly right or the little black wagon will back up and get ya." ; I know one that said, " ; Deal." ; Young colored boy knocked an old man down. Old man Scanlon (ph), he was a share cropper. The old man Scanlon (ph) he let his crop grow up in grass. The old man Scanlon (ph) told him, said " ; You' ; ll have to clean this crop up or I' ; ll have to put some teams over here to clean it up." ; So he didn' ; t clean it up and Scanlon (ph) went over with a team and got into it again and knocked him down and went over to Billy Vann' ; s (ph) house and he told one of those share croppers of his, he said, " ; Here' ; s some money. I wished you' ; d go get some liquor and put on a dance down at your house on Saturday night, and we don' ; t want that nigger around here. That was your normal [indecipherable]. EC: You said dance, that reminds me of something I haven' ; t heard from anyone else. There was a dance hall back of, what, the Bristow Drug Store during the oil boom? CG: Oh yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh that' ; s where Kemp' ; s is. That little drug store. [Inaudible] Us boys over there in the little alley way between us. There was some windows in the dance hall and the boys would get to dancing real big. Then they' ; d take a little snuff and put it in a pipe and blow it over into the dance hall, and everybody would be a sneezing and going on. EC: Were there any other places like that in Bristow? Dance halls or? CG: Yeah. [Inaudible] CG: Oh [indecipherable] down there just this side of Johnny' ; s [indecipherable]. And he carried a billy club and give them a massage if they got unruly. EC: Where was this Dick Cahill (ph) name? JC: He had a pool hall, you know, down here, and he got [indecipherable] because of letting kids in there to play pool, you see. So he put a bunch of these old hats in the back table, and when we played pool we had to put on eof those hats on so the women folk looked back there and see--Wound up owning 80 or 90 houses here in town. He was a drug store-- CG: Yeah and on top of that he was a Jew, and his brother was a [indecipherable]. EC: You' ; re how old? CG: 82. EC: 82. CG: I was three-years-old. Father brought mother and us children from Harrisonville, Missouri in a covered wagon and we had to ferry the Arkansas River [indecipherable] and it had taken us fifteen days to come that 300 miles. We' ; d have to stop and put--[inaudible]. JC: This is off the record, maybe. Jack Abraham, you remember him [inaudible]? EC: I haven' ; t met him, but I know who he is. JC: You know who he is? EC: Yeah. JC: Well, he and I were trapping together. You know, we had steel traps everywhere and we' ; d run them [indecipherable] over there on the creek about eight blocks. Then we' ; d beat ' ; em right after school, you know, and go home. One morning, we caught a opossum in a trap, but he died in the trap. Old Jack was just a little bit smarter than I was ; a cotton farmer. He said, " ; God damn, they always die in the trap." ; Well, they' ; re hide' ; s no good, you know, when they die in the trap. I said, " ; Well, what are we going to do with him?" ; He said, " ; Oh, I' ; m going to throw him right here in the weeds." ; So he threw him over there, and we went on to school. He got out of school, at that time, a little earlier than I did. He went down and got this opossum and skinned him and sold him to Curt' ; s dad and he had little gristmill down there and [indecipherable]. So we [indecipherable] down there a lot, you know. We had corn cob pile back there where, you know, they shell corn and have corn cob fight. That evening, I went by there, you know, kind of had a few words with Curt' ; s dad, visited a little while, he says, " ; Well, I see you boys caught a opossum last night." ; And I said, " ; Yeah, but he died in the trap and the hides no good." ; He had to tell him it was a different because Jack had already been there and sold him the hide. [Indecipherable] I haven' ; t brought that up to old Jack in years. I don' ; t know if he would like it or not. EC: Curt, you were here at the time when Oklahoma became a state then? CG: Yeah 1907. EC: Do you recall anything about it? Were there big celebrations? CG: Well, they had an election. They closed the polls before time to close them. They had one election and then they was afraid it wouldn' ; t go over? EC: Oh? CG: So they just closed the polls in all of Oklahoma. EC: I see. CG: Years ago, mother used get letters from Missouri, and they was marked I.T., Indian Territory. But, before that, before the Indian Territory, it was Indian Nation. The first grocery store that was ever here was right back of the printing office up there. It was about 20x20, I guess. A fellow by the name of Tom Flynn [indecipherable]. JC: My dad and his dad was hunting with the superintendent at school. We were all hunting together a lot, you know. Curt was just a whole lot better shot than my dad or the superintendent. And they go out and practice, you know, before they' ; d go hunting. My dad would shoot a target way off, you know, have me down there and bring back the score, you see. Dad would shoot way off one side of the target and wouldn' ; t even put a hole in it. When they got ready to bring the shots back [indecipherable] right close there' ; d just be blistering marks, just a little bit. I' ; m a better shot than you thought. I don' ; t know what' ; s a happening. CG: Oh yeah my father back of Jack' ; s old home back there, they had some pictures [indecipherable]. I' ; ll go get them. There in the house, there. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml OHP-0040B_Curt_Gillaspie.xml
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Curt Gillaspie
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In this 1979 interview with Curt Gillaspie, he shares about his family history, bank robberies, Indian relations, statehood, and what it was like to attend Bristow Schools and some mischief he got into. He also shares about working for the Bristow Fire Department and what it was like to be chief.
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OHP-0040B
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1979-06-07
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Ed Cadenhead
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Jack Carman
Reba Carman
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5.4 June 7, 1979 OHP-0040A Jack Carman OHP-0040A 0:00-25:30, 25:33-35:25 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jack Carman Reba Carman Ed Cadenhead 1:|9(2)|25(2)|40(3)|50(5)|68(2)|85(5)|97(10)|111(3)|129(2)|144(1)|154(7)|165(12)|188(2)|209(12)|228(8)|249(8)|266(5)|284(10)|292(2)|303(5)|310(13)|326(12)|342(13)|354(14)|367(5)|380(1)|399(13)|411(3)|435(4)|467(8)|476(7)|492(3)|503(9)|514(10) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0040A Carman, Jack.mp3 Other audio 4 Family history of Jack Carman EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don’t we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. Family history of Jack Carman including their move from Billings, Missouri Billings Oil Company ; Billings, Missouri ; buying land ; cattle business ; oil boom ; Springfield, Missouri ; trading with Indians 121 Childhood memories in Bristow EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn’t but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T’s pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I’d have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. Childhood memories in Bristow including working at Model T Ford Agency date of birth ; driving ; Model T ; Model T Ford Agency Childhood memories in Bristow 170 Attending School EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn’t want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? Attending school in Bristow and college at OU bull dozing ; farming ; Mr. Hutton ; OU ; sliding on railing ; superintendent ; two-story school Attending School 260 Oil Boom EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don’t know exactly but it was about ’23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That’s way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. What the town of Bristow was like during the oil boom 1923 ; born 1905 ; cotton days ; dirt streets ; oil boom ; wagons ; wooden sidewalks 338 Jobs in School EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they’d get a car load of Model T’s in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. He worked for his dad at the Ford Agency putting cars together and teaching farmers how to drive driving ; Ford Agency ; jobs ; Model T Jobs in School 410 Jobs after College EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let’s see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn’t like coaching too well. Jobs after college including coaching at Poteau for two years coaching ; new car ; Poteau ; The Depression 438 Memories from Youth EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That’s a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we’d shove ‘em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. Memories from youth including pranks and 4th of July picnics 4th of July ; fireworks ; ice cream ; outhouses ; picnics ; pranks 524 Events During the Oil Boom EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There’s a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. The population of Bristow grew during the oil boom which made for gambling and fights and the need for US Marshal, Billy Freshour. Billy Freshour ; cotton wagon ; gambling ; jail ; Paul Jones ; population ; The Depression ; US Marshal ; Well's Grocery Events During the Oil Boom 715 Politics in Bristow EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that’s [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. Jack ran for County Commissioner and Mark Schrader was mayor county commissioner ; politics ; republican ; town leaders ; WWII 837 Notable Events in Bristow JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? Notable events in Bristow including harvest day, bank robberies and race relations bank robberies ; harvest day ; Ku Klux Klan ; race relations ; riot ; Tulsa 966 Indian Relations and Moonshine EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn’t had any trouble there. They weren’t very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn’t get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, “Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?” I said, “Hell no!” He said, “Well, you got a still running over there.” And I said, “Well, hell, let’s go over there and look at it.” Indian relations and a moonshine still on Jack's property Indians ; liquor ; moonshine ; still Indian Relations and Moonshine 1045 Major Land Owners EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly’s has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. Major land owners included Jack's dad and the Kelly Family Indian land deals ; liquor ; The Kellys 1086 Building of Heyburn Lake EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don’t know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. Jack and Brick Kirchner worked to clear the land for Heyburn Lake just in time for floods to ruin their progress Brick Kirchner ; building Heyburn Lake ; floods ; Heyburn Lake ; lawsuit Building of Heyburn Lake 35.9526° N, 96.3027° W 17 Heyburn Lake https://corpslakes.erdc.dren.mil/visitors/projects.cfm?ID=M507500 Heyburn Lake 1198 Sports EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days…sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid’s dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. Sports and betting on sports was big during the oil boom in Bristow athletics ; betting ; cheating ; Norman ; oil boom ; Oklahoma City ; sports ; state championship 1307 Travel EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He’d go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. People often vacationed in Colorado and most of Jack's business connections were in OKC business connections ; cattle market ; Colorado ; Norman ; Oklahoma City ; Siloam Springs ; travel ; vacations business connections in OKC ; vacation to Colorado 1391 Buildings Around Town EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that’s still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? Jack's dad built the first brick building and made the bricks for the building Bill Cheatham ; Community State Bank ; Dr. King ; Dr. Schrader ; first brick building ; first hospital ; Joe Abraham ; making bricks ; Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. ; Reba Carman Buildings Around Town ; First brick building ; First hospital 1571 Reba's Family EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn’t like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. Reba's family came from Tennessee when she was six-months old where her dad, Dr. Wells settled their family in Newby Dr. Wells ; family ; Newby ; Tennessee Dr. Wells ; Reba's family 1639 Reba's Memories of Bristow EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn’t go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well’s Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. Women didn't go out at night alone during the oil boom because the streets were rough. Bristow felt small enough to feel close but large enough to have things like the Chautauqua and Billy Sunday in OKC. Billy Sunday ; Chautauqua ; flu epidemic ; oil boom ; The Depression ; WWI doing without during The Depression ; Rowdy times during the oil boom ; seeing Billy Sunday ; the Chautauqua visiting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chautauqua Chautauqua 1816 Town Doctors & ; First Hospital EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I’ve heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any… RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but… RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they’re the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You’re right. The town and the politics of the town. Reba's dad, Dr. Wells, along with three other doctors, formed the Bristow Clinic & ; Hospital. Bristow Clinic & ; Hospital ; Bristow Memorial Hospital ; doctors ; Dr. Bisbee ; Dr. Hollis ; Dr. Wells ; Dr. Williams ; John Collins ; Mrs. Kelly ; politics Bristow Clinic & ; Hospital ; Bristow Memorial Hospital ; doctors were town leaders 1970 Church Involvement & ; Catholic Relations EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven’t asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don’t think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It’s been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. Reba was very involved in the churches of Bristow, attending the Methodist Church, and recalls Catholic relations being good. The first brick church was the First Christian Church. Catholics ; church ; Ed Abraham ; first brick church ; First Christian Church ; Lebanese ; Methodist Church ; Syrians ; Useph Abraham attending the Methodist Church ; Catholic relations ; First Christian Church MP3 1979 interview with Jack Carman and his wife, Reba. Jack spoke on the oil boom, growing up around Bristow, working at his dad's Ford Agency and the depression. He also spoke on his part in building Heyburn Lake. Reba spoke about her childhood, moving to Newby where her dad practiced medicine, and, eventually, moving back to Bristow at the age of six. Her dad was a physician and integral part of medical care in Bristow, establishing the first Bristow Clinic and Hospital with three other physicians. She described growing up in Bristow and the Chautauqua coming through. She was also involved with the churches of Bristow, specifically the Methodist Church. EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don' ; t we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. EC: I' ; ve noticed there were several people from Bristow who came, their families came from Billings, Missouri. Was there any connection that you know of? JC: Well, yeah, dad was the first one come down, and he got to trading with the Indians, you know, and got acquainted, and got to making a good bit of money was one reason in the cattle business, of course, and buying land. Then it wasn' ; t very long after that the oil boom came, and that' ; s when things did start happening. He had to organize his Billings Oil Company. There was so many people down here from Billings, and they sold stock in there, and I think they made a little money but not a whole lot on that. EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn' ; t but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T' ; s pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I' ; d have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn' ; t want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? JC: Well, my dad and the superintendent were good friends, so that put me in a different category from the rest of them. But the school house that I went to school in had been torn down. That' ; s right across from the gymnasium now. It was a rock school. Several pictures of it around town here. Mr. Hutton (ph) was the superintendent then. It was two-story, and they had a nice slick railing, you know, from the first story to the bottom story and the street level. The bell would ring and we' ; d scoot on out while all us boys would slide down that railing. The superintendent didn' ; t like that very well, so he just drove some nails, two or three of them, into the railing just high enough that it would catch your britches, not your skin. That stopped the sliding. EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don' ; t know exactly but it was about ' ; 23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That' ; s way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they' ; d get a car load of Model T' ; s in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. Of course, I had two or three school kids that helped me. One day there was a farmer that brought a car in and said, Mr. Carman, seems like this seat is trying to get away from the chassis. Dad looked around a little on it and found out I didn' ; t put the body bolts in that connected. It was just sitting on there. And that was the last time I had any school kids to help me. I had to do it by myself. EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let' ; s see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn' ; t like coaching too well. EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That' ; s a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we' ; d shove ' ; em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. EC: Did you, do you remember the Fourth of July picnics? JC: Well, they had one every year, and I don' ; t know-- EC: Well, that' ; s what I mean, I just heard that was an annual affair, and I wondered what one was like. [inaudible] JC: Well, mostly what I can remember about it was they had a lot of banners, you know, and just a red, white and blue and flags like all decorated, band stand in front of the stores, setting off fire crackers and [inaudible]. Yeah, had a lot of times free ice cream. EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There' ; s a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. EC: What can you tell me about him? JC: Well, he was short with a large stomach. He was daring, and I don' ; t think anybody was afraid of him, and he wasn' ; t afraid of anybody at all. Let' ; s see, he lived to be pretty old to be a sheriff. They had the jail down about where [inaudible]. What' ; s the damn grocery store down there? Well' ; s, yeah, it was down there in the Well' ; s corner of the Well' ; s grocery store down there. They finally got a new enough courthouse. EC: You were about to tell the story about the jail, I think. JC: Oh well, an instance in junior high or high school it was. Let' ; s see, how' ; d that go? Oh, after school were shooting craps up in the gym, you know. One fellow, Paul Jones, went out to the police station, and he swept the police station out. They made it up against us that the law was to come up there and arrest us for shooting craps, you know. So, two or three laws came up and took us down and put us in the jail. Policeman said, " ; Now you want to turn this joke around while you just tell them that you found out that Paul Jones is the one that turned you in, you see." ; We did, and we didn' ; t see Paul, you know, for a day or two because he was hiding out. EC: When the depression came, what evidences of it did you notice in Bristow? JC: That was 1930 when I got out of college. That' ; s when I found out. I got married. I had a car and all that I found out where all this money was coming from. People just didn' ; t have fans. Didn' ; t have a lot of things. The oil boom, of course, helped out on that deal. EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that' ; s [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. EC: Who would you say ran the town in those days? JC: Who ran the town? EC: Who ran the town? JC: Oh, Mark Schrader (ph) was the mayor two or three times here, and he was [inaudible]. Who? Oh, Jimmy Weaver [inaudible]. EC: What about World War II? Any particular effects on Bristow that you recall? JC: Well, it didn' ; t affect me too much. I was too old for World War II, and I wasn' ; t old enough for WWI, so I came in between there. None of my family, luckily, didn' ; t have to go. Of course, I had my cows and I still kept [indecipherable]. [Inaudible] JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? JC: Well, I saw one bank robbery. I saw them come out shooting. I forgot what bank it was. I just happened be going down the street, you know, and I saw this old boy come out, and somebody had gotten up on the building across the street shooting at this bank robber. I saw where the brick, you know, shell went in the building into the brick. EC: When you think of Bristow, do you think of it now, this many years later, do you think of it mainly as a farming area, cattle raising or what? JC: Well, I had a little part in all of it, I think, pretty well, around the town. You can make a living if you work at it, you know. EC: You told a story earlier, the part about the Ku Klux Klan. Do you remember there being a Klan here in Bristow? JC: I don' ; t know if there was any here or not, but I remember reading, you know, all over the country about it and this and that. EC: How do you feel relationships between the races have been in Bristow? Have there been any problems? JC: No. I remember that one up in Tulsa. They had a big riot up there, you know. People from here went up there with guns. I remember that. [Inaudible] EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn' ; t had any trouble there. They weren' ; t very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn' ; t get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, " ; Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?" ; I said, " ; Hell no!" ; He said, " ; Well, you got a still running over there." ; And I said, " ; Well, hell, let' ; s go over there and look at it." ; And there was one over on the back side, wasn' ; t but about a mile from where I lived. There was an old copper boiler and actually with fire under it right in operation, you know. It had two or three fifty-gallon barrels, wooden barrels, sitting around. Of course, nobody was there that heard us coming up, I guess. [indecipherable] didn' ; t have a chance to move his still. I took a team. I had a team wagon those days and took it over there I hauled the mash home and fed it to the hogs. I had the copper to sell. I had a little spring over there. That' ; s how come they [indecipherable] how it got there or whose it was. EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly' ; s has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don' ; t know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. A big flood came and washed all a lot of trees down in what he had already cleaned up. The government made us go back and clean what we had cleaned up, [indecipherable] and we figured it was acts of God, and we wasn' ; t liable for it, you know, getting all the flood water down on that. It liked to washed the Heyburn Dam out anyway. But we sued the government, but we didn' ; t do any good. Just about broke even on the deal, so that was lucky. EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days--sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid' ; s dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. We had a special train left at Bristow and went to the city with four or five cars on it. I wasn' ; t on it but they said that was pretty rough. Plenty of liquor and drinking going on. Had five cars [indecipherable]. Norman football game, we lost. Come to find out the referees did have money on the game. One instance [indecipherable] ran out, trained to run out of bounds. The umpire overruled that. Then they said, well, he was a holding back up the way of somebody at Bristow. EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He' ; d go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. EC: Did you go to Siloam Springs at all? JC: Just drove over there for the weekend or day. EC: Were your business connections in Bristow through Tulsa or through Oklahoma City or Kansas City or where? JC: Mostly Oklahoma City. Sold cattle down on the Oklahoma City market, and I borrowed my money for school [indecipherable] and went to school at Norman, so that put me down in Oklahoma City more than it would have Tulsa. EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that' ; s still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? JC: Yeah, there' ; s a lot of them. Of course, a lot of them burned and a lot of them tore down. My dad had the first brick building in Bristow. He met the brick guy here on east 8th Street, there was a little creek out there had water and right kind of sand or brick material. They had an old mule or something like, you know, squeezing sorghum. They put this mixture in his box and the mule would turn it to mix the mortar to make brick with. And they had mold where they made it. Then they had a fire they call it, you know, to heat them to make the brick where they' ; d stand up to weather. He made the brick for this first brick building in Bristow. When they tore it down about two or three years ago, I saved a lot of the brick out of it. Some of the brick. Deteriorating the brick and, then I forget who owned it then, plastered it, plastered over it. Then that got to deteriorating, so they put a new brick wall on the outside of it and all that' ; s old was still in there. Then when they opened the Community State Bank (ph) [indecipherable]. Then when they decided to build the new Community State Bank (ph), they had to tear all the inside brick out of it, as well as, the new outside. EC: This is Mrs. Jack Carman (RC) RC: The first hospital that I ever remember is down here on North Main, next door north of the Masonic Temple. It' ; s still standing. It' ; s an apartment house now. And Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. had charge of it. That was before she married Mr. Kelly. Of course, the doctors all had offices upstairs downtown in the building over the stores downtown. My father had an office in the same building as Dr. King and Dr. Schrader. EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn' ; t like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. [Inaudible] RC: Oh, yes, drove a horse and buggy. Then we came to Bristow before I was six-years-old, and we' ; ve been here ever since. EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn' ; t go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well' ; s Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. It was a dirty place, of course. But women didn' ; t go out at night without someone being with them, because it was pretty rough. I can remember the terrible flu epidemic we had during WWI, how my father worked night and day, and how we would beg him to stop. But, no, he was needed. But that was a terrible time. I can remember that. That flu epidemic was [indecipherable]. EC: What other things stick in your mind about growing up in Bristow? RC: Well, I think it' ; s been a marvelous place. It' ; s been just small enough that it was close. And, big enough, we had Chautauqua. Do you remember the Chautauqua and the [indecipherable] courses? We had those in the summer time, and they were up here this, back where the library stands now, along in there. You remember that, Jack? The Chautauqua? And we were close enough even to Tulsa and Oklahoma City, anything big that went on, we would take the train and go to the city [indecipherable]. And when Billy Sunday was in Oklahoma City, the big evangelist, why we all went down to hear Billy Sunday. But I think it' ; s been a fine place. [Inaudible] EC: What, thinking of the Chautauqua, did they have the tent? RC: Oh yeah, great big tent and chairs and everybody just smothering to death and fanning like mad. EC: Do you remember any of the people that came through? RC: No, off hand, I don' ; t. No, I really don' ; t. EC: That would have been about what years? RC: Oh, that would have been in, in the early 20s or late eighteen, nineteen, somewhere along in there. EC: Do you have any memories of the depression that stick in your mind? RC: Well, no. We were married, and of course, had three little tiny kids, so that was depression enough, you know. Just the usual things. Nothing in particular. We just didn' ; t buy anything we didn' ; t HAVE to have. EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I' ; ve heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any-- RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but-- RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they' ; re the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You' ; re right. The town and the politics of the town. EC: They did? EC: About how many doctors were there in those days? RC: Well, I remember from the enterprise, oh, we had nine or ten [indecipherable]. EC: And the hospital that Mrs. Kelly, did she run it? RC: Yes. Uh huh. EC: Who actually started it? Do you know? RC: No, I don' ; t recall who actually started it. That' ; s my first recollection of it is that she was running the hospital, and my father being a doctor, I expect that' ; s the only reason I remember that part of it. And it was there, then, until my father and Dr. Hollis and Dr. Bisbee and Dr. Williams organized a clinic, and went into the building, now occupied by Schumacher Funeral Home, and it was called the Bristow Clinic. And they were there several years. Then they built, just across the street, east of the American Legion Hut. They built the Bristow Clinic and Hospital was the new first new hospital they ever had. And they ran that for, well, I don' ; t know many years. It was the Bristow Clinic and Hospital. And then Bristow began to get bigger and the need was there for more hospitalizations and better care, a graduate nurse, for instance, and things like that. So then, John Collins was really instrumental. EC: Who? RC: John Collins in starting, as I recall, the movement for the hospital out here, Bristow Memorial Hospital. But the need was there, definitely. And my father and the three partners dissolved up in years and sold out to the sister and Todd (ph) [indecipherable] from Tulsa. Dr. [indecipherable] sister is still in Tulsa, as well as, one of the young boys. [Inaudible] EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven' ; t asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don' ; t think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It' ; s been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. EC: Have you been aware of any anti-Catholic feelings in Bristow in your life here? RC: I don' ; t think so, particularly, there has been some, I think. As I can recall, now I' ; m not saying it' ; s true, but as I recall, most of the Catholic people were the, what we call Syrians then, but they call themselves Lebanese now, came into Bristow, Cejul (ph) and Ed and Useph Abraham, the three brothers came to Bristow. And, of course, they were all Catholic. I believe that' ; s my first memory of that, and then, of course, as other people moved in, people from back east in the oil [indecipherable] so it changed from being predominantly foreign-born people to more like it is today. EC: Had there been any major controversies in Bristow that you remember? Things like arguments over whether to, oh, pave the streets or whether to build the new City Hall? Or has there been anything that' ; s really controversial? RC: I don' ; t think of anything, really. I think we' ; ve done pretty well through the years without any big fights over anything. Do you remember anything? EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don't we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. EC: I've noticed there were several people from Bristow who came, their families came from Billings, Missouri. Was there any connection that you know of? JC: Well, yeah, dad was the first one come down, and he got to trading with the Indians, you know, and got acquainted, and got to making a good bit of money was one reason in the cattle business, of course, and buying land. Then it wasn't very long after that the oil boom came, and that's when things did start happening. He had to organize his Billings Oil Company. There was so many people down here from Billings, and they sold stock in there, and I think they made a little money but not a whole lot on that. EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn't but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T's pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I'd have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn't want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? JC: Well, my dad and the superintendent were good friends, so that put me in a different category from the rest of them. But the school house that I went to school in had been torn down. That's right across from the gymnasium now. It was a rock school. Several pictures of it around town here. Mr. Hutton (ph) was the superintendent then. It was two-story, and they had a nice slick railing, you know, from the first story to the bottom story and the street level. The bell would ring and we'd scoot on out while all us boys would slide down that railing. The superintendent didn't like that very well, so he just drove some nails, two or three of them, into the railing just high enough that it would catch your britches, not your skin. That stopped the sliding. EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don't know exactly but it was about '23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That's way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they'd get a car load of Model T's in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. Of course, I had two or three school kids that helped me. One day there was a farmer that brought a car in and said, Mr. Carman, seems like this seat is trying to get away from the chassis. Dad looked around a little on it and found out I didn't put the body bolts in that connected. It was just sitting on there. And that was the last time I had any school kids to help me. I had to do it by myself. EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let's see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn't like coaching too well. EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That's a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we'd shove 'em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. EC: Did you, do you remember the Fourth of July picnics? JC: Well, they had one every year, and I don't know-- EC: Well, that's what I mean, I just heard that was an annual affair, and I wondered what one was like. [inaudible] JC: Well, mostly what I can remember about it was they had a lot of banners, you know, and just a red, white and blue and flags like all decorated, band stand in front of the stores, setting off fire crackers and [inaudible]. Yeah, had a lot of times free ice cream. EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There's a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. EC: What can you tell me about him? JC: Well, he was short with a large stomach. He was daring, and I don't think anybody was afraid of him, and he wasn't afraid of anybody at all. Let's see, he lived to be pretty old to be a sheriff. They had the jail down about where [inaudible]. What's the damn grocery store down there? Well's, yeah, it was down there in the Well's corner of the Well's grocery store down there. They finally got a new enough courthouse. EC: You were about to tell the story about the jail, I think. JC: Oh well, an instance in junior high or high school it was. Let's see, how'd that go? Oh, after school were shooting craps up in the gym, you know. One fellow, Paul Jones, went out to the police station, and he swept the police station out. They made it up against us that the law was to come up there and arrest us for shooting craps, you know. So, two or three laws came up and took us down and put us in the jail. Policeman said, " ; Now you want to turn this joke around while you just tell them that you found out that Paul Jones is the one that turned you in, you see." ; We did, and we didn't see Paul, you know, for a day or two because he was hiding out. EC: When the depression came, what evidences of it did you notice in Bristow? JC: That was 1930 when I got out of college. That's when I found out. I got married. I had a car and all that I found out where all this money was coming from. People just didn't have fans. Didn't have a lot of things. The oil boom, of course, helped out on that deal. EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that's [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. EC: Who would you say ran the town in those days? JC: Who ran the town? EC: Who ran the town? JC: Oh, Mark Schrader (ph) was the mayor two or three times here, and he was [inaudible]. Who? Oh, Jimmy Weaver [inaudible]. EC: What about World War II? Any particular effects on Bristow that you recall? JC: Well, it didn't affect me too much. I was too old for World War II, and I wasn't old enough for WWI, so I came in between there. None of my family, luckily, didn't have to go. Of course, I had my cows and I still kept [indecipherable]. [Inaudible] JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? JC: Well, I saw one bank robbery. I saw them come out shooting. I forgot what bank it was. I just happened be going down the street, you know, and I saw this old boy come out, and somebody had gotten up on the building across the street shooting at this bank robber. I saw where the brick, you know, shell went in the building into the brick. EC: When you think of Bristow, do you think of it now, this many years later, do you think of it mainly as a farming area, cattle raising or what? JC: Well, I had a little part in all of it, I think, pretty well, around the town. You can make a living if you work at it, you know. EC: You told a story earlier, the part about the Ku Klux Klan. Do you remember there being a Klan here in Bristow? JC: I don't know if there was any here or not, but I remember reading, you know, all over the country about it and this and that. EC: How do you feel relationships between the races have been in Bristow? Have there been any problems? JC: No. I remember that one up in Tulsa. They had a big riot up there, you know. People from here went up there with guns. I remember that. [Inaudible] EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn't had any trouble there. They weren't very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn't get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, " ; Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?" ; I said, " ; Hell no!" ; He said, " ; Well, you got a still running over there." ; And I said, " ; Well, hell, let's go over there and look at it." ; And there was one over on the back side, wasn't but about a mile from where I lived. There was an old copper boiler and actually with fire under it right in operation, you know. It had two or three fifty-gallon barrels, wooden barrels, sitting around. Of course, nobody was there that heard us coming up, I guess. [indecipherable] didn't have a chance to move his still. I took a team. I had a team wagon those days and took it over there I hauled the mash home and fed it to the hogs. I had the copper to sell. I had a little spring over there. That's how come they [indecipherable] how it got there or whose it was. EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly's has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don't know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. A big flood came and washed all a lot of trees down in what he had already cleaned up. The government made us go back and clean what we had cleaned up, [indecipherable] and we figured it was acts of God, and we wasn't liable for it, you know, getting all the flood water down on that. It liked to washed the Heyburn Dam out anyway. But we sued the government, but we didn't do any good. Just about broke even on the deal, so that was lucky. EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days--sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid's dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. We had a special train left at Bristow and went to the city with four or five cars on it. I wasn't on it but they said that was pretty rough. Plenty of liquor and drinking going on. Had five cars [indecipherable]. Norman football game, we lost. Come to find out the referees did have money on the game. One instance [indecipherable] ran out, trained to run out of bounds. The umpire overruled that. Then they said, well, he was a holding back up the way of somebody at Bristow. EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He'd go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. EC: Did you go to Siloam Springs at all? JC: Just drove over there for the weekend or day. EC: Were your business connections in Bristow through Tulsa or through Oklahoma City or Kansas City or where? JC: Mostly Oklahoma City. Sold cattle down on the Oklahoma City market, and I borrowed my money for school [indecipherable] and went to school at Norman, so that put me down in Oklahoma City more than it would have Tulsa. EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that's still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? JC: Yeah, there's a lot of them. Of course, a lot of them burned and a lot of them tore down. My dad had the first brick building in Bristow. He met the brick guy here on east 8th Street, there was a little creek out there had water and right kind of sand or brick material. They had an old mule or something like, you know, squeezing sorghum. They put this mixture in his box and the mule would turn it to mix the mortar to make brick with. And they had mold where they made it. Then they had a fire they call it, you know, to heat them to make the brick where they'd stand up to weather. He made the brick for this first brick building in Bristow. When they tore it down about two or three years ago, I saved a lot of the brick out of it. Some of the brick. Deteriorating the brick and, then I forget who owned it then, plastered it, plastered over it. Then that got to deteriorating, so they put a new brick wall on the outside of it and all that's old was still in there. Then when they opened the Community State Bank (ph) [indecipherable]. Then when they decided to build the new Community State Bank (ph), they had to tear all the inside brick out of it, as well as, the new outside. EC: This is Mrs. Jack Carman (RC) RC: The first hospital that I ever remember is down here on North Main, next door north of the Masonic Temple. It's still standing. It's an apartment house now. And Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. had charge of it. That was before she married Mr. Kelly. Of course, the doctors all had offices upstairs downtown in the building over the stores downtown. My father had an office in the same building as Dr. King and Dr. Schrader. EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn't like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. [Inaudible] RC: Oh, yes, drove a horse and buggy. Then we came to Bristow before I was six-years-old, and we've been here ever since. EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn't go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well's Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. It was a dirty place, of course. But women didn't go out at night without someone being with them, because it was pretty rough. I can remember the terrible flu epidemic we had during WWI, how my father worked night and day, and how we would beg him to stop. But, no, he was needed. But that was a terrible time. I can remember that. That flu epidemic was [indecipherable]. EC: What other things stick in your mind about growing up in Bristow? RC: Well, I think it's been a marvelous place. It's been just small enough that it was close. And, big enough, we had Chautauqua. Do you remember the Chautauqua and the [indecipherable] courses? We had those in the summer time, and they were up here this, back where the library stands now, along in there. You remember that, Jack? The Chautauqua? And we were close enough even to Tulsa and Oklahoma City, anything big that went on, we would take the train and go to the city [indecipherable]. And when Billy Sunday was in Oklahoma City, the big evangelist, why we all went down to hear Billy Sunday. But I think it's been a fine place. [Inaudible] EC: What, thinking of the Chautauqua, did they have the tent? RC: Oh yeah, great big tent and chairs and everybody just smothering to death and fanning like mad. EC: Do you remember any of the people that came through? RC: No, off hand, I don't. No, I really don't. EC: That would have been about what years? RC: Oh, that would have been in, in the early 20s or late eighteen, nineteen, somewhere along in there. EC: Do you have any memories of the depression that stick in your mind? RC: Well, no. We were married, and of course, had three little tiny kids, so that was depression enough, you know. Just the usual things. Nothing in particular. We just didn't buy anything we didn't HAVE to have. EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I've heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any-- RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but-- RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they're the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You're right. The town and the politics of the town. EC: They did? EC: About how many doctors were there in those days? RC: Well, I remember from the enterprise, oh, we had nine or ten [indecipherable]. EC: And the hospital that Mrs. Kelly, did she run it? RC: Yes. Uh huh. EC: Who actually started it? Do you know? RC: No, I don't recall who actually started it. That's my first recollection of it is that she was running the hospital, and my father being a doctor, I expect that's the only reason I remember that part of it. And it was there, then, until my father and Dr. Hollis and Dr. Bisbee and Dr. Williams organized a clinic, and went into the building, now occupied by Schumacher Funeral Home, and it was called the Bristow Clinic. And they were there several years. Then they built, just across the street, east of the American Legion Hut. They built the Bristow Clinic and Hospital was the new first new hospital they ever had. And they ran that for, well, I don't know many years. It was the Bristow Clinic and Hospital. And then Bristow began to get bigger and the need was there for more hospitalizations and better care, a graduate nurse, for instance, and things like that. So then, John Collins was really instrumental. EC: Who? RC: John Collins in starting, as I recall, the movement for the hospital out here, Bristow Memorial Hospital. But the need was there, definitely. And my father and the three partners dissolved up in years and sold out to the sister and Todd (ph) [indecipherable] from Tulsa. Dr. [indecipherable] sister is still in Tulsa, as well as, one of the young boys. [Inaudible] EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven't asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don't think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It's been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. EC: Have you been aware of any anti-Catholic feelings in Bristow in your life here? RC: I don't think so, particularly, there has been some, I think. As I can recall, now I'm not saying it's true, but as I recall, most of the Catholic people were the, what we call Syrians then, but they call themselves Lebanese now, came into Bristow, Cejul (ph) and Ed and Useph Abraham, the three brothers came to Bristow. And, of course, they were all Catholic. I believe that's my first memory of that, and then, of course, as other people moved in, people from back east in the oil [indecipherable] so it changed from being predominantly foreign-born people to more like it is today. EC: Had there been any major controversies in Bristow that you remember? Things like arguments over whether to, oh, pave the streets or whether to build the new City Hall? Or has there been anything that's really controversial? RC: I don't think of anything, really. I think we've done pretty well through the years without any big fights over anything. Do you remember anything? audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040A_Jack_Carman.xml OHP-0040A_Jack_Carman.xml
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Jack Carman
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In this 1979 interview with Jack Carman and his wife, Reba, Jack spoke on the oil boom, growing up around Bristow, working at his dad's Ford Agency and the depression. He also spoke on his part in building Heyburn Lake. Reba spoke about her childhood, moving to Newby where her dad practiced medicine, and, eventually, moving back to Bristow at the age of six. Her dad was a physician and integral part of medical care in Bristow, establishing the first Bristow Clinic and Hospital with three other physicians. She described growing up in Bristow and the Chautauqua coming through. She was also involved with the churches of Bristow, specifically the Methodist Church.
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OHP-0040A
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1979-06-07
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audio
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230
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Marland Armitage
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5.4 June 29, 2021 OHP-2021-23 Marland Armitage OHP-2021-23 0:00 - 66:51 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Marland Armitage Georgia Smith MP3 1:|74(3)|105(5)|126(3)|162(3)|189(6)|213(7)|257(16)|300(2)|329(2)|361(6)|399(4)|422(2)|457(2)|477(2)|495(5)|516(12)|545(5)|586(3)|617(4)|654(11)|689(14)|720(2)|753(3)|780(7)|801(3)|834(6)|863(11)|889(2)|921(2)|962(8)|999(2)|1035(6)|1066(2)|1109(3)|1149(4)|1172(4)|1198(14)|1234(2)|1261(7)|1281(9)|1323(9)|1346(2)|1364(12)|1393(2)|1415(1)|1437(2)|1474(12)|1510(1)|1534(15)|1569(8)|1608(2)|1630(8)|1654(2)|1682(10)|1715(2)|1737(5)|1753(5)|1774(5)|1805(5)|1829(12)|1850(2)|1881(2)|1903(11)|1931(14)|1957(15)|1994(4)|2016(12) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Marland Armitage.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is June 29th, 2021, and I’m sitting here with Marland Armitage at the Museum depot and he’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow. Now, Marland could you give me your full name? MA: Frank Marland Armitage GS: Alright, and that was your name at birth? MA: That’s correct GS: Alright. Where were you born Marland? MA: Born in Slick, Oklahoma GS: Alright MA: Ten miles away GS: Ten miles away, so were you born in a hospital or were you born in a house? MA: Born in a house Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Frank Marland Armitage ; Frank Sisler ; Georgia Smith ; Marland Armitage ; Slick, Oklahoma 75 Family GS: Awesome, what were your parents’ names? Let’s start with your mother’s maiden name MA: Mothers name was Nola Lee Fletcher (ph) GS: Nola Lee Fletcher, and what’s your father’s name? MA: Jay Bryan Armitage GS: And do you know where they were married? MA: I think it was in Sapulpa GS: Okay MA: They were from Slick GS: Okay, you think they— MA: But I think they married in Sapulpa Betty Lee Armitage ; Dorothy Jane ; Georgia Marzetta ; Georgia McGuire ; Jay Bryan Armitage ; Nola Lee Fletcher ; Orville, Texas ; Prairie Pipeline ; Robert Henry Armitage ; Shirley Holderfield ; Shirley Jane ; Sinclair https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363625/nola-l-armitage Nola Lee Fletcher https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363621/jay-bryan-armitage Jay Bryan Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/62652740/jay-bryan-armitage Jay Bryan Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/159535892/betty-lee-livingston Betty Lee Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22213680/robert-henry-armitage Robert Henry Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/240957219/shirley-jane-holderfield Shirley Jane Holderfield 323 Childhood GS: Tell me about your home when you were growing up, what kind of house did you grow up in? MA: Georgia, I just found, not just recently, the title to the home mom and dad bought GS: Oh how wonderful MA: They bought a house and I think it only had three rooms in it when they bought it GS: Mhm MA: It had four lots on the end of east 6th street, and they gave $200 for one GS: Isn’t that amazing MA: The note was that they paid $10 down and $10 a month GS: Wow MA: To pay for it John Bell 540 Appliances GS: What kind of laundry apparatus did your mom use? Did she have a washing machine, was it ringer, or— MA: Number three washtub GS: Number three washtub MA: And a rubber [Indecipherable] and I don’t know when we got a washer, but I know I can remember laundry and baths were taken on Saturday. GS: Yup, yup MA: And that number three washtub just depend on how far the line you were, if you got your turn or not. GS: What kind of stove did she cook on? MA: She had a gas stove 654 Depression (1934) GS: So you were born, refresh my memory again, what year was it? MA: 1934 GS: 1934, so you were born in the middle of the depression, do you remember anything of that? MA: No GS: Yeah MA: My dad always had a job during the depression, half of his family, I think they took care of him a very long time. But dad had a job during that time GS: Was it with the oil and gas company? MA: It was with Sinclair GS: With Sinclair, that’s wonderful. Did you have chores in the home? Daily chores you had to do? Sinclair 817 Grandparents GS: Alright do you remember—blah, do you remember anything about your grandparents lives? MA: I do somewhat. My mother’s father ran a filming station in Slick GS: Okay MA: Way back there, he had lost one, it was [Indecipherable] GS: Aw MA: Raised a big family on the farm with—and his plow that had one handle and had a ring on the other side, and he would put that ring up to his elbow so he could run that plow, and— GS: Disability didn’t stop him, did it? MA: He was on the farm until all his kids were gone, and my dad’s parents lived in Bristow. My grandad was—wrote to the Salvation Army, he preached. And so we—they died when I was young, like 8 years old when my grandmother passed away Henry Armitage ; Hulda Armitage ; Nellie Fletcher ; Robert Fletcher ; Salvation Army https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21579862/v-hulda-armitage Hulda Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21579855/henry-bascum-armitage Henry Armitage https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21580705/nellie-g-fletcher Nellie Fletcher https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21580708/robert-amos-fletcher Robert Fletcher 941 School GS: Yeah, okay where did you first attend school? MA: Bristow, Oklahoma Washington school on east 1st street GS: Alright, and do you remember who your teacher was? MA: I think my first grade teacher was Mrs. Asher and I had Mrs. Lester as we called her. I think she taught second grade GS: Okay MA: And Mrs. Wilson was a principle, lived just a couple of blocks from us GS: Wow MA: And I can remember we’d go over there and help her grade papers at times GS: Oh how fun Bristow, Oklahoma ; Mrs. Asher ; Mrs. Lester ; Mrs. Wilson ; Okemah, Oklahoma ; Washington School 1289 Jobs MA: I worked during high school GS: What did you do? MA: I worked for, started my career. I turned 13 years old and loaded freight cars for Bill Bursar (ph) GS: Oh wonderful MA: For two weeks, I worked a two-week vacation for somebody, that was it. And I turned 13 at that time GS: Wow MA: And then at 15 I went to work for C. R. Anthony GS: Yes MA: And I made thirty-five cents in an hour GS: That wasn’t bad back then MA: I could buy all the pop and candy I wanted Bill Bursar ; C. R. Anthony ; M. W. Woolworth ; Woolworth 1433 Church GS: Okay I’m gonna switch to church life. Did your family attend church when you were growing up? MA: We attended all of my life, the Nazarene church that started in Slick. I did not—that, here in Bristow our church was located on 8th and— GS: 8th street MA: Maple and had a little brown church, doors in the corner, with one by four pews GS: One by four, yup MA: And then we later built a frame [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh MA: And I know my dad was on the board of the church, one day we were redecorating it and they were painting it and apparently gasoline caught fire and exploded, blew that church to pieces. GS: Aw MA: and I mean [indecipherable] GS: How disappointing Gladys Banks ; Nazarene church ; Okmulgee, Oklahoma 1732 Medical Care GS: Okay, now you’ve already said Franks Sisler was your doctor, did he make house calls? MA: As I recall, he did early GS: Okay, you probably didn’t need him very often, did you? MA: Not very often, I recall having pneumonia when I was real young, and they called it then double pneumonia, but and I was really sick and I believe he came to the house then. GS: But you didn’t go to the hospital? MA: No GS: Did we have a hospital in Bristow at that time? MA: We did GS: Sisler, was it Sisler Clinic or the one that was before that? MA: Cowart and Sisler American Legion ; Cowart and Sisler ; Frank Sisler ; Sisler Clinic 1807 Town Life GS: Okay, what was Bristow like when you were growing up? MA: Bristow was a lot like it is today GS: Really? MA: Buildings are mostly the same GS: Uh-huh MA: As usual, drug stores GS: Few more things for kids to do maybe MA: Few more things, well we played baseball in the summer, [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh MA: And the swimming pool was there, I can remember I couldn’t swim but I went to the swimming pool J. C. Pennys ; Kemps ; Max Kemp ; Rexal ; Route Hometown Furniture ; S& ; M ; Smiths Drug ; The Princess ; Walmer 2061 Clothing GS: How did people dress back then? MA: Well, the girls wore penny loafers and they put the penny in the little slot in the front of it GS: Yes, yes MA: I recall in high school what we would do, we went through a spell of wearing white shirt and overall cowboy boots GS: Oh MA: We wore blue overalls, or the striped ones GS: Uh-huh MA: And I used to sell them at Anthony’s 2123 Travel GS: Did you ever take the train out of town? MA: We did, we took the train when I was in grade school, and went to the Will Rogers memorial in Claremore GS: Oh wonderful, uh-huh MA: And the thing I remember is when we went to the, I called it the tunnel in Tulsa, it was dark for a short time, that’s where their depot was apparently up there. GS: Oh okay MA: But we went to Will Rogers memorial and then toured it when I was in— GS: Took the train there, did you come down here to the depot? Was it this depot or was it the one before? MA: It’s the same one that’s here now GS: Well that’s wonderful. Now we’ve talked about your jobs already, did you ever serve in the military? MA: No I didn’t Claremore, Oklahoma ; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma ; Tulsa, Oklahoma ; Will Rogers ; Will Rogers Memorial 2423 Segregation GS: Okay we’re gonna really shift gears here now, do you remember if Bristow is segregated when you were growing up? MA: It was GS: Mhm MA: Black school was on north east side of town GS: Do you remember the name of it by chance? MA: Lincoln GS: Lincoln, okay MA: Lincoln high school. I lived about three blocks from it GS: Okay, okay MA: So pretty much 8th street was the dividing line, you know GS: Okay MA: At that time GS: Yeah MA: A few of us, I mixed with them, you know Henry Kemp ; Joe Mouse ; Lafayette Johnson ; Lincoln High School ; P. M. Moore ; Roosevelt Joseph ; Smiths Drugstore 2763 Local Businesses GS: That gas station you mentioned, is it the one that’s just back here behind? MA: Right GS: Do you remember the name of that gas station? Was it a DX Station? MA: I don’t think it was DX, an independent station GS: We were trying to think of it the other day MA: I think we were just, Henry Kemp ran it GS: Okay MA: And then he later had a [Indecipherable] that’s when Merle Baker went in partnership with the Kemps GS: Okay MA: And then he had a [Indecipherable] across the street GS: Okay MA: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay Alonzo ; Arthur Foster ; DX Station ; Foslers ; Fosters ; Henry Kemp ; Merle Baker ; Prairie Pipeline ; Sinclair 2910 World War II GS: Okay, okay I’m gonna switch to World War II. What kind of memories do you have of World War II? You were a teenager or preteen during the years? MA: I was a preteen GS: Preteen MA: I was—my brother graduated high school here in 43’, and went straight to the navy GS: Okay MA: And that was the year we lived in Okemah, and as I remember him being gone then coming back home GS: Was he stationed on a ship? MA: He was on a what they call an LST, which is [Indecipherable], but he used to describe it as one that goes over one wave and under two. But it was at the end of it would drop down and make it rain so that you were just [Indecipherable] GS: Oh okay MA: He had [Indecipherable] GS: I see ; I’ve seen those in movies LST ; Okemah, Oklahoma ; Sallisaw, Oklahoma 3092 Early Adulthood GS: Okay, tell me about after you got married here in Bristow. I think I failed to ask you earlier about your children. You and your wife, did you have children? MA: We had one son GS: Mark MA: And— GS: What was his name? MA: His name was Marcus Allen (ph) and he graduated from—he was the next one to graduate from high school after I did GS: Aw MA: When we came back from Bristow. Mark grew up in Sapulpa, we transferred to Sapulpa not long after I went to work O& ; G here in Bristow GS: When did you go to work for O& ; G? MA: Went to work for O& ; G the Monday after I graduated high school GS: And you worked for them all those years MA: Worked for them a little over 41 years Marcus Allen ; O& ; G ; Sapulpa, Oklahoma 3295 O& ; G Career GS: Tell me about your work with O& ; G MA: I started out as a meter reader GS: Okay MA: Transferred from here to Sapulpa, went into the county department, with no county training at all, but I could add and subtract, I could do that GS: Right, and you were a fast learner I’m sure MA: And I went into the county there, and in the mid 60’s I transferred to Tulsa still in the county, went to a nice school at TU for a couple of years, got some accounting courses in that they told me I needed O& ; G ; TU ; Tulsa University ; Tulsa, Oklahoma 3375 Clubs and Organizations GS: Okay, what can you tell me about Bristow during those years? For instance, were you active in any organizations here in Bristow? MA: This year I would’ve completed 50 years as a member of the Lions Club, I went into the Lions Club, I’ve always been active in city [Indecipherable] GS: I thought you had MA: And when I was in Sapulpa I was in the J.C.s (ph), went to the J.C.s, wasn’t old enough to join. You had to be 21, I’m 19, and— GS: They took you anyway? MA: They let me to go meetings until I got old enough to join, and then when I went into Tulsa I did fundraising for a YMCA, was active over there with the boy scouts, did fundraising for the boy scouts, salvation army, and then when I come back here I’ve always been active here in Bristow GS: Yes, you have MA: President of Chamber of Commerce, president of the Lions Club Assembly of God Church ; Chamber of Commerce ; Freewill Baptist Chuch ; J. C.s ; Lions Club ; Nazarene Church ; YMCA 3656 COVID 19 Pandemic GS: Alright now we’re gonna shift a little bit. We’ve just, we’re just coming out of a pandemic from COVID 19, how has that affected you? MA: Caused me to spend a lot more time at home GS: Yes MA: My usual routine was to get up and go to coffee, with a whole bunch of coffee drinkers about 9 o’clock in the morning for about an hour GS: And that stopped that for about a year and a half, didn’t it? MA: That stopped that for about a year and a half, and in fact we had our first session back yesterday GS: Oh wonderful, wonderful MA: But it has made a difference on it, it’s something to respect GS: It is MA: We were able to—we got the shots fairly early COVID 19 3755 Most Important Invention GS: Looking back over your life, what would you consider to be some of the most important, or the most important, inventions during your lifetime? MA: It would be hard to decide which one. Of course the cars were already here, they had washing machines, we didn’t happen to have one of them but, but I think, you know, refrigeration. We grew up with an ice man coming to the door GS: Yes, yes MA: And putting a chunk of ice in the box GS: In the bottom of the fridge MA: In the wooden ice box GS: Uh-huh MA: At our house, we had a window box GS: Okay 3858 Biggest Problems that Face Our Nation GS: As you see it, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation right now and how do you think they could be solved? MA: Well, just the relationship of people is something that bothers me GS: Yes MA: It seems like it’s nothing. You know, I grew up with if there’s something that needs to get done, we’d go and do it GS: Exactly MA: Now it’s, you know, you do it. And the kids today, the younger generations, I’ve told my family, you know, just two words they know and that’s me and I GS: Mhm MA: If it’s not and if it doesn’t benefit me, I don’t care about it GS: That’s so sad MA: And it bothers me GS: Yeah, you’re not the only person I’ve interviewed who has said this MA: Church is important to me In this 2021 interview, Marland Armitage shares his experience living in Bristow throughout the years. He discusses the different businesses located in town and what life was like during the depression. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Marland Armitage Other Persons: Date of Interview: June 29, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-23 00:00 -- 66:51 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is June 29th, 2021, and I' ; m sitting here with Marland Armitage at the Museum depot and he' ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow. Now, Marland could you give me your full name? MA: Frank Marland Armitage GS: Alright, and that was your name at birth? MA: That' ; s correct GS: Alright. Where were you born Marland? MA: Born in Slick, Oklahoma GS: Alright MA: Ten miles away GS: Ten miles away, so were you born in a hospital or were you born in a house? MA: Born in a house GS: Yeah, yeah. And did you have a doctor deliver you? MA: Not that I know of. GS: Okay, well now you said that Frank was from Frank Sisler, was he your doctor? MA: When we came to Bristow GS: Oh okay MA: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay MA: My baby sister was delivered by him GS: Oh alright, alright. And what year and day were you born? MA: August the 7th, 1934 GS: Awesome, what were your parents' ; names? Let' ; s start with your mother' ; s maiden name MA: Mothers name was Nola Lee Fletcher (ph) GS: Nola Lee Fletcher, and what' ; s your father' ; s name? MA: Jay Bryan ArmitageGS: And do you know where they were married? MA: I think it was in Sapulpa GS: Okay MA: They were from Slick GS: Okay, you think they-- MA: But I think they married in Sapulpa GS: But they were living in Slick, do you know what year that might have been? Or approximate year? MA: Uhm, not exactly but it was would' ; ve been early 20' ; s GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have? MA: Had six GS: Six children, that was pretty common back then, wasn' ; t it? MA: Yeah it was, and I was number five GS: You were number five? Oh my goodness, what were your sibling' ; s names? MA: My oldest brothers name was Jay Bryan Armitage, and my sister was Betty Lee Armitage, then we had Dorothy Jane and then a brother Robert Henry Armitage, he was named from his grandparents GS: Okay MA: On both sides GS: Oh how nice MA: And then our baby sisters name is Shirley JaneGS: And are any of them still living? MA: My middle sister, Dorothy is living, lives in Orville, Texas. And my younger sister Shirley Holderfield (ph) lives in Bristow GS: Shirley Holderfield is your sister MA: That' ; s it GS: Aw I just love Shirley ; I did not know that. That' ; s good to know. What did your father do for a living? MA: Dad worked for originally the Prairie Pipeline, which later became Sinclair GS: Ah MA: And he worked out of state, and then they transferred their office to Bristow GS: Okay MA: And he worked from here all these years GS: Until he retired? MA: He didn' ; t get to retire GS: Aw that' ; s a shame MA: He had a heart attack at 59 years old, and we lost him GS: That' ; s a shame, how old were you when you lost your dad? MA: I was twenty-three GS: Twenty-three, that' ; s hard. What did your mother do when you were growing up? MA: She cooked more for six kids. She didn' ; t work outside the home-- GS: I don' ; t think she could' ; ve MA: She was a homebody GS: Yes MA: And a wonderful cook, and just did a good job on raising us kids GS: That' ; s-- MA: I always told them we didn' ; t have much, but we had plenty to eat and clean clothes GS: Knowing you and Shirley I believe she did a wonderful job. What' ; s your spouse' ; s name? MA: Georgia Marzetta, her maiden name was McGuire, lived in Kellyville GS: Okay, and do you remember the date of your marriage? MA: I think, I think I' ; ve got it wrong on here GS: Oh no, we can fix it. We' ; ll-- MA: Complete GS: Okay MA: February the 19th GS: February the 19th, of 53' ; ? MA: I think--no, of 54' ; . GS: Alrighty, very good thanks for correcting that Marland. Tell me about your home when you were growing up, what kind of house did you grow up in? MA: Georgia, I just found, not just recently, the title to the home mom and dad bought GS: Oh how wonderful MA: They bought a house and I think it only had three rooms in it when they bought it GS: Mhm MA: It had four lots on the end of east 6th street, and they gave $200 for one GS: Isn' ; t that amazing MA: The note was that they paid $10 down and $10 a month GS: Wow MA: To pay for it GS: That' ; s wonderful MA: They later had to build on so all the kids had a place to sleep GS: Sure MA: And it wasn' ; t much, but it was home GS: It worked and it was home. Was it a frame house? MA: Frame house, actually had some of the walls were two by twelves GS: Oh my goodness MA: When we got into it, I can remember they papered it, when they put the cheesecloth on the wall. GS: Really? MA: So the paper would stay GS: I did not know that MA: And our neighbor papered that house for us, John Bell lived across the street from us GS: Uh-huh MA: And he papered our house for us GS: Well, and cheesecloth underneath it MA: Yeah GS: I never knew that. Did you live in the country or in town? I guess that was at Slick MA: It was right at the edge of town, we had the best of both worlds. The pavement ended just before you got to our house and then we had the woods to play GS: And that was at Slick? On the edge of Slick? MA: On the edge here in Bristow GA: Or the edge of Bristow MA: I came to Bristow when I was about a year old GS: Okay MA: And our parents lived on west 12th GS: Okay MA: Right up by the water tower GS: Uh-huh MA: And for a short time until we bought the house on east 6th GS: On east 6th MA: And I don' ; t know at what age it had to be in GS: Yeah. Did you have to share beds with brothers and sisters? MA: I did GS: Yeah MA: Shared it with Dorothy and my brother GS: Uh-huh, yup. Did you have toys growing up? Did you have boxes of toys like they do today? MA: Good night, no. We didn' ; t have boxes of toys GS: But you had some toys MA: We had some toys GS: What type of toys? MA: But we made most of ours. GS: Yeah MA: I can remember rolling those little hoop with the stick GS: Yes MA: We would crush carnation mint cans on our shoes and walk on them. We set out under the streetlight, taking--I can remember us taking saw blades from the saw GS: Yes MA: And we' ; d throw them, stick them in the light pole GS: Oh my goodness MA: And then every once in a while, they' ; d have to come back and change the pole. GS: They' ; d say those kids have been at it again probably MA: Those kids have been at it again GS: What kind of laundry apparatus did your mom use? Did she have a washing machine, was it ringer, or-- MA: Number three washtub GS: Number three washtub MA: And a rubber [Indecipherable] and I don' ; t know when we got a washer, but I know I can remember laundry and baths were taken on Saturday. GS: Yup, yup MA: And that number three washtub just depend on how far the line you were, if you got your turn or not. GS: What kind of stove did she cook on? MA: She had a gas stove GS: Good, mhm MA: That early, we had a wood heat stove GS: Okay MA: [Indecipherable] the best I remember that, I don' ; t remember her ever cooking on it GS: Was she a good cook? MA: Correct GS: What were some of your favorite meals she made? MA: Great baker, she would bake pies. The ones that I' ; d always tell people about was her apple pies and mom would sit in front of the oven and baste them with butter and browning GS: Uh-huh MA: And she made a hundred of them, they' ; re all just exactly like that GS: Oh my goodness I envy that, mine never look the same MA: We had family dinners, you know the kitchen table was full of dessert GS: Uh-huh MA: I can remember she asked my older brother " ; What kind of pie do you want bud?" ; and he' ; d say " ; Well I' ; ll take this first" ; . And then he' ; d go through the rest of them. She was a wonderful cook. GS: So you were born, refresh my memory again, what year was it? MA: 1934 GS: 1934, so you were born in the middle of the depression, do you remember anything of that? MA: No GS: Yeah MA: My dad always had a job during the depression, half of his family, I think they took care of him a very long time. But dad had a job during that time GS: Was it with the oil and gas company? MA: It was with Sinclair GS: With Sinclair, that' ; s wonderful. Did you have chores in the home? Daily chores you had to do? MA: Not in the house. Well the only, I was made to dry dishes because when I got in the age, my brother older than me had gone to the military soon as he got out of high school. So just me and my baby sister GS: Uh-huh MA: And I had to dry dishes and I hated it GS: So you took care of things on the outside of the house? MA: I, yeah I did the eggs and mother would, you know, we always had a cat or more, and she sold milk and butter and eggs around the neighborhood GS: Yup, yup MA: I had a little cart, a little crate that I carried and I delivered milk and butter to the neighbors GS: That would be a fun job MA: Gathered those eggs and [Indecipherable] then I got to do the [Indecipherable] GS: Oh MA: Quite often, but I can remember I don' ; t know if I was excited about it, we had to churn with the plunger. GS: Yes, yes. MA: Momma would put a dish towel over my lap so I didn' ; t get my pants wet GS: Uh-huh MA: And I churned that butter and then in later years we graduated to daisy churn GS: Yes MA: With the crank GS: Yes MA: That went better GS: Yes, yes, I have a couple of those at home MA: Do you? GS: Do you remember the first time you heard a radio? MA: I don' ; t remember GS: Or was there always one in the home? MA: We were real young, but that was the way my dad started his day GS: Listening to the radio MA: He would get up early, eat breakfast, but before he left for work he would sit in front of the radio and listen to the farm show. GS: Aw MA: You know the old Purina (ph) song, Get Up and Feed those Chickens GS: Can you sing it? MA: Don' ; t know that I can do all of it, but it' ; s started " ; Get up and feed those chickens, [Indecipherable], gonna make them grow before they' ; re done. Gonna do the right thing, that' ; s everything a chicken needs. It' ; s superior all in one" ; GS: I love it, thank you, thank you very much. Alright do you remember--blah, do you remember anything about your grandparents lives? MA: I do somewhat. My mother' ; s father ran a filming station in Slick GS: Okay MA: Way back there, he had lost one, it was [Indecipherable] GS: Aw MA: Raised a big family on the farm with--and his plow that had one handle and had a ring on the other side, and he would put that ring up to his elbow so he could run that plow, and-- GS: Disability didn' ; t stop him, did it? MA: He was on the farm until all his kids were gone, and my dad' ; s parents lived in Bristow. My grandad was--wrote to the Salvation Army, he preached. And so we--they died when I was young, like 8 years old when my grandmother passed away. GS: Do you remember their names? MA: Don' ; t know the middle ones GS: That' ; s okay MA: But my grandmother Armitage was Hulda (ph) and my granddad Armitage, his name was Henry. And mom' ; s parents were Nellie and RobertGS: Nellie and Robert, and the last name again? MA: Fletcher GS: Fletcher, Nellie and Robert Fletcher. Who is the oldest person in your family that you can remember? Would it have been those grandparents? MA: Those grandparents GS: Yeah, okay where did you first attend school? MA: Bristow, Oklahoma Washington school on east 1st street GS: Alright, and do you remember who your teacher was? MA: I think my first grade teacher was Mrs. Asher and I had Mrs. Lester as we called her. I think she taught second grade GS: Okay MA: And Mrs. Wilson was a principle, lived just a couple of blocks from us GS: Wow MA: And I can remember we' ; d go over there and help her grade papers at times GS: Oh how fun MA: But we had a wonderful time there GS: And-- MA: We had our own playground and softball field and you had to pitch uphill GS: Oh my MA: The batter was up on the top and then the ground sloped GS: That must be before they leveled it and put the blacktop there MA: Yeah, [Indecipherable] cafeteria where it was [Indecipherable] GS: Okay MA: And if you hit it too far, we had a drain collection down at the east end of it, and the water would run into there. But every once in a while the ball would get down there GS: Aw, was that a home run if it did? MA: It had to be because it would take a while to get it out. You could get into that hole but it' ; s hard to get out GS: And so did you go through 6th grade at Washington? MA: Went to--I went to first and 2nd grade in Bristow, and then we moved to Okemah for a year GS: Okay MA: Just happened, and I hate to tell it, but I flunked 2nd grade GS: Oh well that happens, that' ; s nothing to--no shame in that MA: And so I went to Okemah GS: Uh-huh MA: And took 2nd grade over GS: Okay MA: And then we came back and I--so I went to Bristow all 12 years GS: Well good, yes you did, didn' ; t you? MA: I didn' ; t skip that one GS: Just a year you' ; d like to forget, huh? MA: Yeah I' ; d just forget GS: How many kids were in your classes back then in, you know, in a classroom. Do you remember? I wouldn' ; t know all mine. MA: There were several, I' ; m gonna guess 20 GS: Yeah MA: Or so many of them I still remember GS: And did you walk to school? MA: Walked to school GS: Did you have a best friend that you walked with or with brothers and sisters or? MA: Walked with my brother, but we had neighbors that we' ; d pick up along the way GS: Right MA: You might, I don' ; t know about best friends because some of them I' ; d fight with before I got home GS: So how many blocks did you have to walk? MA: Let' ; s see, six? GS: That' ; s not a bad walk MA: That' ; s not a bad walk, even in the winter GS: Yeah, and did you graduate from Bristow? MA: Graduated from Bristow in 1953 GS: Do you have--were you active in sports or organizations in high school? MA: Probably too much GS: Aw, well tell me about it MA: In junior high, I played football, basketball GS: Yup MA: And wrestling. GS: Doesn' ; t seem to have hurt you a bit MA: No, didn' ; t hurt me any. My only problem was I had two older brothers who were good athletes GS: Oh, you had to live up to them MA: Best I could do wasn' ; t gonna be good enough GS: Aww MA: I think my mother never saw me play a football game GS: Aww MA: But she went to my older brothers GS: Well that' ; s a shame, that' ; s a shame. MA: We--they used to tell you know, that' ; s probably the reason they started putting the fence around the football field. When my brother would get hurt, my mom would wanna get down there and check on [Indecipherable] GS: Well that makes sense, yeah. MA: But in high school I played basketball and was captain, went on to senior, was the captain of the basketball team GS: Uh-huh MA: Didn' ; t have a good year GS: Aw MA: But we made all the games GS: Yup MA: I think I recall I wrestled one match in high school when I was a sophomore GS: Just decided that wasn' ; t for you? MA: Well we had a basketball game scheduled for that night and a wrestling match in the evening GS: Gosh MA: So I went up and tried out and made the weight and wound up having to wrestle the captain of the team and it was Oklahoma [Indecipherable] GS: Aw MA: I never had such a day in my life GS: I imagine, I imagine MA: That' ; s a long seven minutes GS: I' ; m sure, I' ; m sure MA:I told them, I said " ; You couldn' ; t even hear me?" ; when I told him [Indecipherable] GS: Aw MA: Oh well. I didn' ; t enjoy sports, but I was active in school GS: Any class offices or anything like that? Any other organizations? MA: Well, back then when I was in high school, we had district education plans, which was [Indecipherable] GS: Okay MA: And I was president of that for a year. I worked during high school GS: What did you do? MA: I worked for, started my career. I turned 13 years old and loaded freight cars for Bill Bursar (ph) GS: Oh wonderful MA: For two weeks, I worked a two-week vacation for somebody, that was it. And I turned 13 at that time GS: Wow MA: And then at 15 I went to work for C. R. Anthony GS: Yes MA: And I made thirty-five cents in an hour GS: That wasn' ; t bad back then MA: I could buy all the pop and candy I wanted GS: Sure you could MA: And I kept myself in clothes. GS: There you go MA: And then I went from C. R. Anthony' ; s to Woolworth (ph), M. W. Woolworth GS: Uh-huh MA: Got a raise, made 50cents an hour GS: Very good! I' ; m sure you were a great employee MA: I tell them, I used to take them, one of my jobs was to check the fire extinguisher, which at that time was a two-and-a-half-gallon bucket of water under the counter, floors were all [Indecipherable] GS: Oh my MA: Mop them, and when I worked at Woolworth it was during the war, and all the employees were women GS: Yeah, yeah MA: And I-- GS: Of course you were a teenager, right? MA: I was a teenager, I was, well I was worked until I was graduated, so 16, 17 years old. GS: Uh-huh MA: I' ; ve been--they called, you know they sold canaries and parakeets. GS: Really? MA: And inadvertently somebody' ; s gonna leave the door open then they-- GS: Aw MA: And I remember getting called out of school and I' ; d go down there and catch some bird with a butterfly net. Put them back in the pen and go back to school GS: Oh my goodness. And the school let you, didn' ; t they? MA: The school let me, yeah GS: It was no problem MA: They were good GS: That' ; s wonderful. Okay I' ; m gonna switch to church life. Did your family attend church when you were growing up? MA: We attended all of my life, the Nazarene church that started in Slick. I did not--that, here in Bristow our church was located on 8th and-- GS: 8th street MA: Maple and had a little brown church, doors in the corner, with one by four pews GS: One by four, yup MA: And then we later built a frame [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh MA: And I know my dad was on the board of the church, one day we were redecorating it and they were painting it and apparently gasoline caught fire and exploded, blew that church to pieces. GS: Aw MA: and I mean [indecipherable] GS: How disappointing MA: Nobody injured GS: Well that' ; s good MA: They rebuilt it, and then that brick church on top of the basement GS: Yeah MA: And I can remember my dad telling me we cannot afford a brick church, it just cost too much GS: Yeah MA: We struggled, but we had a brick church GS: But you made it, and it that the church that' ; s still standing there today? MA: That' ; s the church that' ; s still standing there, and a lot of wonderful memories there GS: I' ; m sure MA: Yeah GS: Can you tell me about any of them? MA: A few. I know as a teenager, I was a head of our youth group. The one thing I remember about it, we had a convention in Okmulgee, and I was probably 15, and one of the ladies was taking us down there the road from Bristow to Slick, down through there. And I [Indecipherable], it was rutty, muddy, and she drove down there in the mud in an old [Indecipherable]. But when she got to Okmulgee, she couldn' ; t parallel park GS: Oh, she could drive on the muddy roads but not parallel park MA: So I parallel parked the car for her GS: You probably didn' ; t even have your license yet MA: Oh no, no I didn' ; t at the time. GS: Well that' ; s a neat memory, any others? MA: We really enjoyed it, growing up there. Lots of young people GS: Good youth group MA: I was looking at some pictures not long ago, the pictures of our classroom. Sunday school teachers name was Gladys Banks (ph), and she lived out between Bristow and Slick GS: Okay MA: [Indecipherable] GS: Yup MA: And we' ; ve had problems before getting in that class [Indecipherable] and it would, we just covered the whole stairs, steps going up into the church. Lot of wonderful people, there' ; s a lot of memories GS: That' ; s wonderful. What were the Sunday, what were the services like on Sunday? You know, did you have Sunday school then worship service? MA: We had Sunday school, just basically like we do today. I mean, we had Sunday school early and as I recall, we sang a little song about 9:45, gotta be at Sunday school at 9:45 GS: Yup MA: Back then during the war, they had a bus GS: And you' ; re saying during the war, which war are you referring to? MA: World War II GS: Okay MA: They had a bus that would run and it would come to your house and would, it would come and we would walk about a block I think, and catch the bus if dad wasn' ; t able to go. Normally he was. GS: Yeah MA: And, but we rode the bus home just because it was gasoline was rationed GS: Right, oh yeah. MA: So, but we had some wonderful times there, good times. GS: Did your--you said your dad helped build the church, did they have a choir back then? Did, because now aren' ; t you a singer? Don' ; t you sing? MA: Well choir, yeah. I didn' ; t sing GS: Okay MA: It was best I didn' ; t GS: Oh MA: But we did have a choir, and you know a couple pews in the choir, not a big one GS: Uh-huh MA: ' ; Cause we didn' ; t have, you know, [Indecipherable] GS: Did your mom or dad sing in the choir? MA: No GS: No MA: No, they did not sing in the choir, but they were faithful. GS: Okay, now you' ; ve already said Franks Sisler was your doctor, did he make house calls? MA: As I recall, he did early GS: Okay, you probably didn' ; t need him very often, did you? MA: Not very often, I recall having pneumonia when I was real young, and they called it then double pneumonia, but and I was really sick and I believe he came to the house then. GS: But you didn' ; t go to the hospital? MA: No GS: Did we have a hospital in Bristow at that time? MA: We did GS: Sisler, was it Sisler Clinic or the one that was before that? MA: Cowart and Sisler GS: Okay MA: It was on west 8th street next to the American Legion GS: Okay MA: I spent one night there GS: Oh you did? MA: Had my tonsils taken out, almost bled out GS: Oh my MA: But it was I remember two or three stories tall that I can remember. Looking out the window, and the school' ; s having a bonfire before a football game GS: Aw MA: And, but as far as I know, till I was old, it was the only night I spent in the hospital GS: Well that' ; s wonderful. Okay, what was Bristow like when you were growing up? MA: Bristow was a lot like it is today GS: Really? MA: Buildings are mostly the same GS: Uh-huh MA: As usual, drug stores GS: Few more things for kids to do maybe MA: Few more things, well we played baseball in the summer, [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh MA: And the swimming pool was there, I can remember I couldn' ; t swim but I went to the swimming pool GS: Did they have the day camp and pre-swim back then? MA: Not that, not the day camp GS: Okay MA: Not that far back GS: Okay MA: They had the building out by the swimming pool and I' ; m trying to think of the name, they had a junior college GS: Yes MA: And they--and I can remember that building GS: Oh it was not ; it was not in the old high school? The junior college? MA: As I recalled it was in that building that later became the farm center for state GS: Okay, out by the lake? MA: Had a gin out by the lake, yeah GS: Okay MA: There' ; s just a parking lot there now GS: Okay MA: But they had it in [Indecipherable]. I think they had a gin and that' ; s where the junior college started GS: Was, where it started MA: Huh? GS: Where it started, where it began. Do you remember, were there theatres in town? Where there--you know? MA: We had Walmer (ph) and the ones I remember was Walmer and The Princess (ph) GS: Uh-huh MA: I didn' ; t go hardly GS: Yeah, you didn' ; t get to go to the movies? MA: I didn' ; t have the time GS: Oh yeah, you were too busy in sports, weren' ; t you? And working MA: But the Walmer was between 6th and 7th and the Princess was between 7th and 8th GS: And was it always there or do you remember when it was built or? MA: I don' ; t remember, but they were there as far as I can remember. We had several drug stores GS: Okay MA: You know, Smiths Drug and S& ; M (ph) and Rexal (ph) GS: Yes MA: And Kemps was there GS: Oh MA: And-- GS: Well yes because Max Kemp took it over from his father, didn' ; t he? MA: It was his family, right GS: That' ; s right. Did you ever eat out at restaurants in town? MA: Very seldom, the only thing I can really remember is maybe a hamburger GS: Uh-huh MA: Mom cooked GS: Yeah MA: It was better coking at home [Indecipherable] GS: I' ; m sure it was. Did you have a favourite hamburger place? MA: I can remember some, I never did eat much of it, but I can remember one that we had which would be, would' ; ve been right across from the fire station now. GS: Okay MA: Little old building on the ally way GS: Okay MA: And you could get ten hamburgers for a dollar GS: Oh my goodness MA: But you didn' ; t go in and sit down, you just buy them, take them out the window GS: Just to go place strictly, huh? MA: Just to go GS: Was there a place that was a teen hangout? MA: We had a teen youth center above what would be now the old Route Hometown Furniture GS: Okay MA: Where J. C. Pennys was GS: Yes MA: Upstairs was the youth center GS: Yes, I didn' ; t realize that MA: [Indecipherable] and had music they played, I never did dance, but you could GS: Uh-huh MA: They would just sit and visit primarily GS: Well that' ; s wonderful they had that place MA: It was nice for that time GS: Sure, my parents square danced in that area in the 60' ; s MA: Yeah GS: How did people dress back then? MA: Well, the girls wore penny loafers and they put the penny in the little slot in the front of it GS: Yes, yes MA: I recall in high school what we would do, we went through a spell of wearing white shirt and overall cowboy boots GS: Oh MA: We wore blue overalls, or the striped ones GS: Uh-huh MA: And I used to sell them at Anthony' ; s GS: Ah MA: And-- GS: So that would' ; ve been early 50' ; s? MA: Early 50' ; s, yeah, late 40' ; s. GS: Okay, that' ; s interesting. Was that kind of a general trend across maybe the area, or just a Bristow thing? MA: As far as I know it was Bristow, we didn' ; t know about the other areas, we didn' ; t get out of town much GS: Did you ever take the train out of town? MA: We did, we took the train when I was in grade school, and went to the Will Rogers memorial in Claremore GS: Oh wonderful, uh-huh MA: And the thing I remember is when we went to the, I called it the tunnel in Tulsa, it was dark for a short time, that' ; s where their depot was apparently up there. GS: Oh okay MA: But we went to Will Rogers memorial and then toured it when I was in-- GS: Took the train there, did you come down here to the depot? Was it this depot or was it the one before? MA: It' ; s the same one that' ; s here now GS: Well that' ; s wonderful. Now we' ; ve talked about your jobs already, did you ever serve in the military? MA: No I didn' ; t GS: Lucky youMA: I can recall [Indecipherable], back then a lot of our classmates was on the national guard GS: Okay MA: And during my hospital deal when it was activated for Korea GS: Okay MA: And several of my classmates went to Korea with the national guard bureau 45th division, but I had some issues with--the doctor told me, he said if they call you let me know because they don' ; t need you GS: Well very good, very good MA: Had a vision problem GS: Yeah, that' ; s alright MA: Well I would' ; ve gone, they tried to get me to join the national guard and--no I' ; ll go when they call me GS: There you go MA: But I don' ; t need to GS: Yeah, yeah. Okay, let' ; s see. Did you go to Tulsa or Oklahoma City much growing up? MA: We would go to Tulsa a lot, I had relatives in Oklahoma City GS: Okay MA: And several summers I would go spend a week or two GS: Oh that' ; s nice MA: With my cousins up there. But that was our vacation was to go to Oklahoma City on the weekend GS: Ah, what would you do when you were there? Just visit with the relatives? MA: Just visit with the relatives GS: And the kids probably played and-- MA: I was telling Joy (ph) earlier that that was our vacation where you go up on Saturday, spend a night, then come back on Sunday GS: Yeah MA: And now we run up there and eat lunch GS: That' ; s true, don' ; t have to make it an overnight trip MA: Don' ; t have to make it an overnight trip GS: Did your family have a car? MA: We did, now as far back as I can remember GS: Do you remember what kind? MA: Yeah, my dad had a--I think probably the first one I recall what' ; s the name. 38' ; Cheverolette, four door sedan GS: Uh-huh MA: We never had a new car GS: Yeah, yeah MA: Dad says you can fix them, his concern was if the body' ; s good you can fix them up. GS: And back then you could MA: Yeah GS: Without all the computer stuff on it MA: But I can remember a lot of them he had, I can remember when my brother was a senior, he was working part time during school, and we bought a 37' ; Chevy [Indecipherable] GS: Oh yeah MA: I said we did, he did and old [Indecipherable] went out north of town that I can remember [Indecipherable] hotel, and Jay, if those boys want that car to last, tell them to just drive it like it was new, like they were breaking it in. So it' ; s never been over 35 miles an hour, and we did it. GS: Wow, yup MA: And when he went to the service, I got to drive the car to school once. I' ; ve even, it was so seldom, I can remember walking home from school, leaving it at the school, because I forgot I had it GS: Oh my goodness MA: Georgia, I went up and I came back [Indecipherable] several years ago now, went up and talked to the class at school and when I walked through the parking lot there and saw all the cars, and I remember going to school and all the cars that the kids drove to school you could park on elm street between 8th and 9th GS: Yeah MA: Between the catholic church and school, there were probably five or six is all the cars that were at school GS: Yup MA: First thing he couldn' ; t afford GS: Right, exactly. Yeah it' ; s a lot different today MA: A lot different, a lot. GS: Okay we' ; re gonna really shift gears here now, do you remember if Bristow is segregated when you were growing up? MA: It was GS: Mhm MA: Black school was on north east side of town GS: Do you remember the name of it by chance? MA: Lincoln GS: Lincoln, okay MA: Lincoln high school. I lived about three blocks from it GS: Okay, okay MA: So pretty much 8th street was the dividing line, you know GS: Okay MA: At that time GS: Yeah MA: A few of us, I mixed with them, you know GS: Yeah, you had some friends MA: I had some friends at that time, I didn' ; t run with them in school, of course we weren' ; t in school GS: ' ; Cause you weren' ; t in school together, right? MA: Right, but I can remember an incident though which is not good, but when I was visiting one of them downtown, and I said " ; Well let' ; s go drink a coke" ; and I went in Smiths drugstore, and they served it. But the next time I went in there, they called me out and I said " ; Don' ; t you do that, don' ; t do that no more" ; GS: Aw how sad, but that was pretty common back then MA: That was common, that was common GS: Yes, a sad time in our history. Do you remember the names of any black people in the city back then? MA: Well it' ; s gonna be hard GS: That' ; s alright, that' ; s alright MA: I do remember an old gentleman called Roosevelt Joseph (ph) GS: Roosevelt Joseph MA: Yup, and then there was one that worked for P. M. Moore at the tire shop, and then there was a black girl that worked for Joe Mouse (ph) at his station, and of course one of the ones I remember most was Lafayette Johnson (ph) at the shoe store GS: Sure, I think a lot of people remember Lafayette MA: Shoe shine. Lafayette was remembered by everybody GS: Yes, yes MA: Then there was one that was a janitor at the high school, they lived on east 8th street, just about three blocks from me, just wonderful and encouraging to all of us young kids, and I can' ; t remember his name GS: Yup, yup MA: I know where he lives, his house is still there GS: Yup, I understand. Some of those names slip my memory too anymore. You mentioned going, well you mentioned the pool. Did you ever go to the pool, and were black children admitted to the swimming pool? I mean it was total segregation back then, wasn' ; t it? Yeah, yeah. MA: I don' ; t remember any in there at all, and I didn' ; t go often GS: Yeah, do you know if there were any freedmen in Bristow? Freedmen? MA: Freedmen? GS: Freedmen MA: No, I don' ; t remember GS: Okay, were there ever any episodes of racism that you remember growing up, other than what you just told me about the drug store MA: No GS: Yeah, I don' ; t think we had it bad here MA: To my knowledge we didn' ; t GS: Yeah MA: They were all [Indecipherable] in the north east part of town and that was pretty much it GS: Yeah. What about Indians? We were Indian territory, were Indians treated well in town, did you know any Indian families? MA: I did, I went to school with some and I don' ; t ever recall an incident. Now I remember some that would, you know, get drunk GS: Yeah, do you remember-- MA: They threw them in jail overnight, you know GS: Yeah, do you remember any that were employed, like you know some of the blacks you remembered working. Do you remember any Indians being employed at certain places? It' ; s okay if you can' ; t MA: One I remember was if I can recall his name, he was a son-in-law for Henry Kemp, and he worked at the station [Indecipherable], there was a real nice home over on the east 1st street just as you started out of town, the Indians lived in GS: Okay MA: But I can' ; t recall their names GS: Yup, yup. That gas station you mentioned, is it the one that' ; s just back here behind? MA: Right GS: Do you remember the name of that gas station? Was it a DX Station? MA: I don' ; t think it was DX, an independent station GS: We were trying to think of it the other day MA: I think we were just, Henry Kemp ran it GS: Okay MA: And then he later had a [Indecipherable] that' ; s when Merle Baker went in partnership with the Kemps GS: Okay MA: And then he had a [Indecipherable] across the street GS: Okay MA: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay MA: Which used to be, when I was a kid, there was a purple store GS: Where the skating rink? MA: Huh? GS: Where the-- MA: Skating rink wasn' ; t there then GS: Okay MA: It was on the corner, Foslers (ph) had a [Indecipherable] where they sold chicken GS: Oh MA: And a guy name Alonzo (ph) used to pick chickens there, a black boy GS: Okay MA: And you could buy fresh chickens there GS: Well MA: And I can remember going in there, he had a rubber chicken picker GS: A rubber chicken picker MA: That old electric deal that would just take the feathers off of it GS: Huh MA: But he would, you know, hang them up by their feet and just cut their throat and let them bleed out there in the store, it was all over GS: In the store? Oh my goodness MA: And you' ; d just buy them fresh GS: Wow MA: And the Fosters owned the business GS: Uh-huh, the Fosters you say? MA: Yeah GS: Okay MA: Arthur Fosters dad I think was the one that had it GS: Okay, that' ; s interesting. Anybody in your family involved in the oil industry that went on here? MA: My dad worked for Prairie Pipeline, which later became Sinclair GS: Right MA: And he worked with them all his working years until he was dead. And of course my brother, oldest brother worked for them, and later he worked for [Indecipherable]. At one time, [Indecipherable] wasn' ; t headquartered in Bristow GS: Yeah MA: Worked out in Cushing GS: Okay, okay I' ; m gonna switch to World War II. What kind of memories do you have of World War II? You were a teenager or preteen during the years? MA: I was a preteen GS: Preteen MA: I was--my brother graduated high school here in 43' ; , and went straight to the navy GS: Okay MA: And that was the year we lived in Okemah, and as I remember him being gone then coming back home GS: Was he stationed on a ship? MA: He was on a what they call an LST, which is [Indecipherable], but he used to describe it as one that goes over one wave and under two. But it was at the end of it would drop down and make it rain so that you were just [Indecipherable] GS: Oh okay MA: He had [Indecipherable] GS: I see ; I' ; ve seen those in movies MA: He was a welder in Sallisaw GS: Okay MA: Boxed while he was there GS: And he made it, oh he was a boxer in the army--in the navy? MA: He was a boxer, he boxed in the navy GS: My uncle boxed during the war also MA: Dad had him boxing when he was two or three years' ; old GS: Oh my goodness, really? Were you ever a boxer? MA: But, not me, not me. I told him, you know, in my family the three boys, there was a boxer, and a fighter, and a diplomat GS: And you were the diplomat, weren' ; t you? MA: I was the diplomat. My oldest brother boxed a lot and was good, my middle brother would fight anybody GS: Wow MA: And he was pretty good at that. GS: He was good at it MA: Bob ran around with Buck [Indecipherable] GS: Okay, he goes to my church MA: Yeah GS: Buck does MA: Yeah, and see I graduated-- GS: Sits right in front of me MA: And I graduated with his younger brother Kenny GS: Okay MA: Still know a lot of people in town GS: Yeah, yeah. Did rationing affect your family a lot during the war? MA: To some extent, yes. I remember lard was hard to get and momma always had to use lard GS: I' ; m sure if she was a baker MA: I can remember when, I remember when we couldn' ; t get candy bars, you know some of those places they got them, one of them would have, if they had any, they put them under the counter for certain people GS: Oh MA: But I could walk by that thing look in the window to see if they had any GS: Could you talk them out of it if you-- MA: Not often. I remember that the sugar was short, gasoline wasn' ; t that--we didn' ; t need a lot of gasoline cause we wasn' ; t going anywhere GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh MA: I--hose, silk stockings were not readily available GS: Right, right MA: That' ; s about it GS: Okay, tell me about after you got married here in Bristow. I think I failed to ask you earlier about your children. You and your wife, did you have children? MA: We had one son GS: Mark MA: And-- GS: What was his name? MA: His name was Marcus Allen (ph) and he graduated from--he was the next one to graduate from high school after I did GS: Aw MA: When we came back from Bristow. Mark grew up in Sapulpa, we transferred to Sapulpa not long after I went to work O& ; G here in Bristow GS: When did you go to work for O& ; G? MA: Went to work for O& ; G the Monday after I graduated high school GS: And you worked for them all those years MA: Worked for them a little over 41 years GS: Wow, I did not realize that Marland MA: I took my test for them while I was in high school, graduated Thursday night, took my physical on Friday and went to work Monday morning GS: That' ; s fantastic MA: And I transferred to Sapulpa and we raised our son in Sapulpa, he came back to Bristow midterm Junior GS: Okay MA: In 1971 GS: Okay MA: And graduated in 72' ; GS: He was in my graduating class MA: Right, with you GS: Yup, and-- MA: Had a wonderful, I got to come back and be manager of the office where I went to work GS: Aw, that is neat, that is neat. And O& ; G isn' ; t based in Bristow anymore MA: They' ; re not based in Bristow, I was there during the transition back in 86' ; , and they had a downsizing and the crews that we had here moved to Sapulpa, and they had an early out push. We only had to have 10 years of service, but you had to be 55 years old, and I had gotten thirty something years of service GS: Right MA: But I was 52, so I went back to Sapulpa, which is where I transferred from in the beginning of it GS: Right MA: I went from Bristow to Sapulpa to Tulsa and from Tulsa back to Bristow GS: Uh-huh MA: And then went from Bristow back to Sapulpa GS: But you were able to still live here the whole time, weren' ; t you? MA: I didn' ; t move back to Sapulpa in 86' ; GS: Yeah MA: I commuted GS: Right MA: From then and we were able to keep the office open for just [Indecipherable] just attached here inside until I retired in 94' ; , and when I retired then they closed the office. GS: I missed the offices being open MA: I do, I miss-- GS: I think it had hurt the communities when that happened MA: And it just-- right GS: Tell me about your work with O& ; G MA: I started out as a meter reader GS: Okay MA: Transferred from here to Sapulpa, went into the county department, with no county training at all, but I could add and subtract, I could do that GS: Right, and you were a fast learner I' ; m sure MA: And I went into the county there, and in the mid 60' ; s I transferred to Tulsa still in the county, went to a nice school at TU for a couple of years, got some accounting courses in that they told me I needed GS: Yeah MA: To promote GS: Yeah MA: Then I transferred into the budget department, went to our service center out on east 15th, worked out there a couple of years, and then transferred into marketing department you know back downtown, and worked in our marketing department for about three years. And then transferred back to Bristow as manager of the office where I went to work GS: Okay, what can you tell me about Bristow during those years? For instance, were you active in any organizations here in Bristow? MA: This year I would' ; ve completed 50 years as a member of the Lions Club, I went into the Lions Club, I' ; ve always been active in city [Indecipherable] GS: I thought you had MA: And when I was in Sapulpa I was in the J.C.s (ph), went to the J.C.s, wasn' ; t old enough to join. You had to be 21, I' ; m 19, and-- GS: They took you anyway? MA: They let me to go meetings until I got old enough to join, and then when I went into Tulsa I did fundraising for a YMCA, was active over there with the boy scouts, did fundraising for the boy scouts, salvation army, and then when I come back here I' ; ve always been active here in Bristow GS: Yes, you have MA: President of Chamber of Commerce, president of the Lions Club GS: Okay MA: And I' ; ve actually was awarded citizen of the year GS: Do you remember what year that was Marland? MA: I think it was 76' ; , in that area GS: Okay MA: I can tell you, I can give you the exact dates but I' ; d have to go home GS: Right, right MA: And then I was chosen for lifetime achievement, [Indecipherable] the chambers highest honour. GS: That' ; s quite an honour MA: And one of the few who had got it, well it was [Indecipherable] GS: That makes it even better, doesn' ; t it? MA: Makes it even better GS: A little bit sweeter MA: And I tried to be, you know, a good citizen and to participate in-- GS: Now you attend--Oh I' ; m sorry, go ahead MA: And I' ; ve--was received the highest honour that the Lions had, which was the [Indecipherable] award GS: Wonderful MA: And my club here bought me a lifetime membership in the Lions Club, I was going to retire GS: Aw MA: And they said no, when I turned 80 I was gonna retire, and they said no you' ; re not gonna retire, you just come when you want to GS: Well that' ; s nice, that' ; s nice MA: So I still try to go GS: They know valuable people when they see them, they don' ; t wanna let them go MA: I' ; ve shared the united way drive twice, and I' ; ve tried to do my part to be a good citizen GS: Well and I think you' ; ve done an outstanding job MA: For in the church and all of that GS: Now you currently go to the Freewill Baptist, don' ; t you? MA: Right GS: How long have you been going there? MA: We went to Freewill Baptist in Sapulpa, I was raised a Nazarene, but when we went to Sapulpa, Nazarene church was big. Martha and I, you know, we were kids, so we went for a while to the Assembly of God church, which was smaller, and her sister and her family went GS: Uh-huh MA: And then while we lived in Sapulpa, her Brother, who is a minister, took the Freewill Baptist church in Sapulpa so we began to go with him, and then of course when we came back to Bristow, we transferred back, we went [Indecipherable]. We' ; ve been in the Freewill church here for 50 years GS: I thought you' ; d been there a long time MA: We came back to Bristow in 1971, and-- GS: And you probably are on the boards of elders and about everything that there is in the church MA: Sure I' ; m on the board, I was treasurer for several years, taught Sunday school class, then I got too old GS: You' ; re not too old Marland. Alright now we' ; re gonna shift a little bit. We' ; ve just, we' ; re just coming out of a pandemic from COVID 19, how has that affected you? MA: Caused me to spend a lot more time at home GS: Yes MA: My usual routine was to get up and go to coffee, with a whole bunch of coffee drinkers about 9 o' ; clock in the morning for about an hour GS: And that stopped that for about a year and a half, didn' ; t it? MA: That stopped that for about a year and a half, and in fact we had our first session back yesterday GS: Oh wonderful, wonderful MA: But it has made a difference on it, it' ; s something to respect GS: It is MA: We were able to--we got the shots fairly early GS: Good MA: And, but we' ; ve--we respect it GS: Amen, mhm MA: The danger of it and so I spent a lot more time at home, which was good GS: Yes MA: [Indecipherable] GS: Did you lose anybody in your family due to COVID? MA: We have not, my sister had it, a light case, several of her family had had the COVID GS: Uh-huh MA: But we did not GS: Good MA: Our grandson was exposed to it early in his work, and took the test, but never did have it GS: But it didn' ; t affect him much, good. Good, good, good. Looking back over your life, what would you consider to be some of the most important, or the most important, inventions during your lifetime? MA: It would be hard to decide which one. Of course the cars were already here, they had washing machines, we didn' ; t happen to have one of them but, but I think, you know, refrigeration. We grew up with an ice man coming to the door GS: Yes, yes MA: And putting a chunk of ice in the box GS: In the bottom of the fridge MA: In the wooden ice box GS: Uh-huh MA: At our house, we had a window box GS: Okay MA: In the winter time, we just left our stuff out. They had to build a box outside the window and you just raised the window up and put the milk and the butter and stuff, screen wire over it. And in the winter time, it would stay real cold out there. GS: Well sure it would, that' ; s the first time I' ; ve heard of that MA: And I can remember in the kitchens, you know, that' ; s what it was and you could raise the window and mom would get the milk and stuff GS: How fun, that time we lost electricity for nine months, nine months--nine days MA: Nine days GS: We did that, we put our food outside because it was cold MA: And during that time, I didn' ; t lose mine GS: Good for you MA: I' ; m served off the transmission deal out there, and we were off for two to three hours GS: Wow, wow well you were lucky because most of the rest of the town was out. As you see it, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation right now and how do you think they could be solved? MA: Well, just the relationship of people is something that bothers me GS: Yes MA: It seems like it' ; s nothing. You know, I grew up with if there' ; s something that needs to get done, we' ; d go and do it GS: Exactly MA: Now it' ; s, you know, you do it. And the kids today, the younger generations, I' ; ve told my family, you know, just two words they know and that' ; s me and I GS: Mhm MA: If it' ; s not and if it doesn' ; t benefit me, I don' ; t care about it GS: That' ; s so sad MA: And it bothers me GS: Yeah, you' ; re not the only person I' ; ve interviewed who has said this MA: Church is important to me GS: Yes MA: And the attendance at church is not nearly-- GS: No it isn' ; t MA: --What it should be. Salvation is something that seems like people have just forgotten GS: I agree 100%, it is MA: God' ; s still there, God' ; s still on the throne, and his time is gonna come one of these days GS: I agree with you Marland MA: I just hope I' ; ve made mine right GS: Do what? MA: I just hope I' ; ve made my life right GS: Well I know you have. Okay is there anything that you would like to tell us that I haven' ; t thought to ask? MA: Georgia, it' ; s just that I came to Bristow early, I like Bristow. When I came back here, I told them when I was elected for citizen of the year, I didn' ; t have to come to Bristow GS: No MA: But it' ; s home GS: You chose Bristow MA: I chose to GS: Mhm MA: And I chose to stay here, when I was-- opportunity to go out of town again. My mother was still alive, which was up in her 90' ; s and I chose to stay here and drive for 8 years to Sapulpa and back everyday GS: Yeah, it was a longer trip back then than it is now too MA: Yeah, and but the only thing, the bad part of going from here to Sapulpa and doing a day job is that you drive into the sun going-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-23_Marland_Armitage.xml OHP-2021-23_Marland_Armitage.xml
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1100
Location
The location of the interview
Bristow, Oklahoma
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
66:51
Interview Keyword
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“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
Bristow, farming, great depression, home life, hospital, Lincoln High School, Nazarene church, oil companies, segregation, Slick, train, Washington School
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Marland Armitage
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2021 interview, Marland Armitage shares his experience living in Bristow throughout the years. He discusses the different businesses located in town and what life was like during the depression.
Identifier
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OHP-2021-23
Date
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2021-06-29
Format
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audio
Creator
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
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Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
Bristow
farming
Great Depression
home life
hospital
Lincoln High School
Nazarene church
oil companies
segregation
Slick
train
Washington School
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/2a398157b788c2817f94dca1545dca07.jpg
b9b500c1c244dcfeb2beb07ea57407cb
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Joe Trigalet
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Mary Jane Trigalet
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-21_Mary_Jane_Trigalet.xml
OHMS Object Text
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contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 June 6, 2021 OHP-2021-21 Mary Jane Trigalet OHP-2021-21 00:00- 78:26 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Mary Jane Trigalet Joe Trigalet MP3 1:|71(9)|87(7)|107(3)|123(2)|146(14)|156(13)|188(2)|208(14)|217(3)|234(1)|259(7)|271(1)|294(6)|317(4)|331(6)|346(12)|374(3)|399(12)|416(1)|431(6)|458(1)|471(15)|485(2)|535(5)|556(4)|588(13)|605(1)|617(3)|642(8)|656(10)|684(2)|704(2)|734(3)|747(16)|766(13)|783(11)|813(1)|846(2)|865(2)|895(7)|927(6)|945(3)|959(13)|988(6)|1009(1)|1031(2)|1042(4)|1056(3)|1073(10)|1090(8)|1106(6)|1123(9)|1148(2)|1166(5)|1184(9)|1207(3)|1225(3)|1246(9)|1278(2)|1308(2)|1326(1)|1347(9)|1368(9)|1378(13)|1401(5)|1418(11)|1433(15)|1464(9)|1491(14)|1517(5)|1536(8)|1558(5)|1594(7)|1647(3)|1674(5)|1686(7)|1710(7)|1724(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Mary Jane Trigalet.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction MT: Now is it recording? JT: Yeah MT: Check JT: This is Joe Trigalet with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is June 6, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Mary Jane Trigalet who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area, and the workings of the garment factory. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Garment Factory ; Joe Trigalet ; Mary Jane Trigalet 30 Family History JT: So a few questions about you first, what was your name at birth? MT: Mary Jane Trigalet JT: And where were you born? MT: In Okmulgee, Oklahoma on August the 26th, 1942. JT: 1942, was that in home or hospital MT: In a hospital JT: And your parents’ names? MT: Was Jean Francois Trigalet (ph) and Margaret Ann Jidasco Trigalet (ph) JT: And when were they married? MT: They were married on May the 27th, 1939 Jean Francois Trigalet ; Margaret Ann Jidasco Trigalet ; Mary Jane Trigalet ; Okmulgee, Oklahoma 170 Garment Factory JT: And then, I forgot. Okay well thank you. Okay, now then, we were here—and this was my idea basically because I know that you worked a long time out at the garment factory MT: 19 Years JT: 19 years at the garment factory. Now first of all, did you work there until they closed down? MT: M-m JT: Oh okay MT: No, no they were going to come along—excuse me, they were coming along and cutting everybody’s wages, cutting their piecework’s. And they got to me after 19 years and were cutting mine back and they told me what my new rates were gonna be and already a lot of people had left the garment factory to go to work at the carpet plant. And so then I didn’t want to go work the carpet plant and I happened to drive by that Saturday morning and they were building the community bank drive in down by the railroad tracks and I thought “I know I can do anything they do”. So the next Monday, I left work early and went home, changed to look presentable, and walked into community bank and asked for an application. And the person I asked for the application was Billy Faha (ph), and he said “You wait right there and I’ll get that application for you”. Billy Faha ; Gossard Artemis ; Miss Elaine 1274 Pay Scale JT: Okay, so I was going to get to that, but first of all before I get there to talk about the— MT: Processes? JT: The, no the pay scale and how things worked MT: Oh that was, yeah so all these different processes there’d be a piece of kind of a thin cardboard, and all of the processes were, how was it. Let me kind of start over, okay so you had this piece of paper more or less about the size of a typing sheet, and it told what that was, the size of it and everything and then down below I think there were pins on, I think two rows, and they were little printed tickets. Anyway you snipped that off with your scissors and you had this stuff called paper tape, it was actually a big big roll of brown paper, like wrapping paper that was sticky. And so if you didn’t have a thing, a sponge to wet down, you licked them all. But anyway you wear them down and you stuck them on your paper and that’s what you turned in for your work, that’s what you did, how many of those you had on that paper. And that’s how you got, that was called piecework. 1822 Starting Work JT: Okay, so you worked there 19 years, and you talked a little about your pregnant and you stuck a needle through your— MT: Yeah JT: Why did you go to work there? MT: Well, it’s just like anybody else. You’re young and you’re getting a family and sometimes one income just doesn’t do it. And so you start looking around. JT: Okay so you were, you started looking around for a job. It wasn’t that you had a perplivity (ph) to do some sewing MT: No no cause it’s—there’s so much of it that you would not call basic sewing JT: No it was an assembly line 2221 Miss Elaine JT: And so you talked about—also, earlier you talked about the label, the Miss Elaine MT: Mhm JT: Were there other labels too or just the one Miss Elaine MT: Miss Elaine was it, now I think there was maybe a variation of what set on the label like luxury or I don’t know, [Indecipherable] JT: Yeah MT: And I don’t think I—did I ever tack on labels? They were just tacked on as the garment was finished, that was one of the final things I think. Some of those may have been put on before they were sewed, I really can’t remember that part. JT: Okay but it was all Miss Elaine? MT: It was all Miss Elaine Clarks ; Gossard Artemis ; Macys ; Miss Elaine ; Utica Square ; Zacs 2375 Packaging JT: Yeah, so all the jobs that you did, did you ever have to fold the garments and put them in the boxes? MT: No, I didn’t have to do that. But there were some people who could, and they were on piece work too, that folding and there were some people who could fold those really nice and put those right down in that box and like I think like the panties a lot of the time there’d be like three in a box. And of course the gowns and all that, they’d just be one. Then those boxes were all stacked up over and then the shipping department would out them into the bigger boxes for transporting out JT: Yeah, cases, cases of those little smaller boxes. It seems to me that someone had to pop those boxes into shape, that they would’ve come in flat and that someone would’ve had to— MT: Yeah if I remember right as you did it, I had one very good friend that was a folder and as you did it, you just took that box, you know, and you’ve seen these flat boxes, they have these little creases on there and everything. You’d just take that flat box and you’d flip it around, put your garments in it, flip the top around, and— JT: Right Marie Shelton 2513 Roles JT: Yeah, okay. Well, so you mostly did button holes and buttons MT: Tacking JT: And tacking MT: And the—I forgot about the bra straps actually, and yeah I did a few of those things. It was interesting though but especially when I think I was doing the tacking ; it was like almost [Indecipherable]. I used to sit there and write poems JT: Well I was gonna say a lot of times, and I learned this years and years ago, that people who like assembly line work, they like it because it’s repetitious and they can actually think of things MT: Oh yeah, you can—like I said I could’ve wrote novels. But I did write some poetry and what I used to write it on was that little brown sticky paper. And we all, most of us had our little radios with us and we listened to music and everything and, you know, nobody turned them up so loudly. Usually you could hear it right in your area. Because, you know, machines weren’t like stacked on top of each other, you had several feet in between 2861 Machine Malfunctions JT: Well did, maybe not your machine, but maybe your machine. Did they ever just break? MT: Oh yeah, we had two really good mechanics and I think actually there for a while there was three, and you put up a flag at your place and if you were having enough of a problem and they didn’t come soon enough, you got one of the four girls to go tell them what was going on because it was your downtime and if you wasn’t doing it, you wasn’t getting tickets. So you know, if you were down for 40 minutes, you could lose a lot of product there JT: Yeah MT: And so anyway, yeah it was—but they worked hard and they were— JT: Never had the machine just blow up on you or anything? 3079 Training JT: Okay, well did you ever, did you ever do things like dad did? Was there another plant? Was a Gossard plant that you would go--? MT: There were other plants, but I never had to go to one JT: You never had to? MT: No, I think maybe, maybe, especially some of the supervisors or something like that, and I’m not sure whether the technicians that did the timing and stuff if they ever went to other plants to see how well they were doing a certain process, I don’t know for sure on that. I just remember two different people that were [Indecipherable] of the technicians that worked with me and you know, of course when I was first started the first few years, no one ever come to time me for anything. But as I got into more and more doing different things and was doing good on that, then they come and time me. Gossard Artemis 3316 Seasons JT: And so what’s this—can you explain what the seasons were? MT: Well you were always way ahead of the seasons so you were making things that were for the winter, you were making those during the summer time, and then you would get back into making the thinner, finer things that would go out for the spring and all and that’s usually when you would start new styles and stuff, and then when it was gonna start on the winter stuff, you would have some new styles, sometimes the same styles and something else added JT: Well when you said that there were 75 to 100 per season, so did that, did they— MT: No I’m just saying during all those years, I think that the average would’ve been JT: Okay Brams ; Neiman Marcus ; Sharwood, PA 3682 Perks MT: So, yeah. And we could, we were given the option of ordering things JT: Oh from the other factory? MT: Well for any, we could look in the catalogue and order anything, we could order things that we made, and then a lot of people in Bristow knew that they would sell their left over cloth sometimes, and of course we were right there so we got first chance to get anything, and laces and stuff like that when they quit using a certain lace, they would, you know, you could go back and if you want some of it you could buy it, and it was pretty handy. JT: It sounds handy MT: And I think there’s some stuff of course as usual in any place like that that came out of there that wasn’t bought JT: Yeah 3860 Union JT: Was there any ever any talk of, or maybe it was, but was there a union out there? MT: Oh yeah we were union JT: Were you? Okay MT: Yeah, I get a small pension now because I was there 19 years and not a lot but it comes in every month JT: But did anybody wanna go on strike? MT: No I don’t think we ever did, there was one thing happened that one time and what was that? For some reason we did have to shut down and I don’t remember all of the reasons behind it, but we all actually got unemployment and they set it up to where this unemployment place would come and I think we went to that, you know up here on 10th street? That white building? At 10th and chestnut? 4075 Coworker Functions MT: Yeah I wished, I just happened to remember that too. There were things, there were things. But just, this is a part you won’t want to put in there, but when we had the dinners, we knew who made what and we knew who’s we avoided JT: [Indecipherable] MT: And there were two or three of those that we avoided, but there was some interesting food too, it was always good but still, yeah. JT: Yeah MT: Yeah, we had to, you had to JT: Okay, well I’m not gonna ask—you know I really wanted to do this to get through how the garment factory worked MT: Yeah JT: And I think I’ve got pretty much a sense of the way things worked and the assembly line 4353 Family JT: So Bug [Indecipherable] MT: So you gonna edit that? You gonna put bug in there, are you gonna leave that? JT: Yeah I think so, I think I will. I’ll have to explain that, but— MT: Well you can explain that, you can explain the family thing and all JT: Yeah MT: You know? And just say this is my oldest sister and whatever JT: Yeah, yeah this is my oldest sister. My dad had a nickname for her, he called her Jane Bug because of the June Bug, and so that kind of got— MT: Actually no, he called my Betsy. And that got started from Janet, so Janet started calling me, couldn’t say Mary Jane so she said Mary Jane, and then my two brothers and my cousin decided it sounded like she was saying drain, so they started calling me drain bug. 4472 Radio MT: Well I can tell you another thing that you may not put in there or not. Anyway this one time we were—we always had our radios right there and one of my real good friends was across from me and she was one that did the hanging so we could chat back and forth a little bit, but always had the radio. Well I listened to this one station out of Tulsa, and one of the pizza companies was giving out these tickets, and then they had these drawings every day, maybe even more than one a day, I can’t remember it. Anyway, so we had our radios all tuned to this station so we could hear the numbers called. So we’d take our weekends and go to different pizza places in Tulsa and get tickets. So then instead of holding all tickets, we’d write our list of numbers down so we had this list of numbers. So this one time I had to go over to the IRS the day before, and really bugged me out even though it didn’t cost me a bunch or anything, but just the whole thing had been traumatic and bummed me out. Cherry Cherry ; Neil Diamond 4710 Conclusion JT: Well, thank you again for coming up here and doing this MT: You’re welcome JT: And we’ll end this now MT: Yeah you can [Indecipherable] JT: I probably will In this 2021 interview, Mary Jane Trigalet shares her experience working for the garment factory in Bristow. Interviewer: Joe Trigalet Interviewee: Mary Jane Trigalet Other Persons: Date of Interview: June 6, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-21 00:00 -- 78:26 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. MT: Now is it recording? JT: Yeah MT: Check JT: This is Joe Trigalet with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is June 6, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Mary Jane Trigalet who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area, and the workings of the garment factory. So a few questions about you first, what was your name at birth? MT: Mary Jane Trigalet JT: And where were you born? MT: In Okmulgee, Oklahoma on August the 26th, 1942. JT: 1942, was that in home or hospital MT: In a hospital JT: And your parents' ; names? MT: Was Jean Francois Trigalet (ph) and Margaret Ann Jidasco Trigalet (ph) JT: And when were they married? MT: They were married on May the 27th, 1939 JT: 1922, wasn' ; t it? MT: 1939 is when they got married JT: Oh when they got married, yes that' ; s right, okay. MT: You wanna say it all over again? JT: Okay, where did they meet and why did they come to Oklahoma? MT: My father was in Pennsylvania for the war effort cutting glass, that was his trade, he was an apprentice to my grandfather who was also a glass cutter. And they were in Pennsylvania and he actually met my mother at a skating rink. And I guess they were dating for about a year, close to a year and then she graduated from high school and they got married. JT: And why did they come to Oklahoma? MT: They came to Oklahoma to begin with because my father, being a glass cutter, came to work at the Okmulgee and Henrietta plants doing the same thing, cutting glass. And he wanted to come back to Oklahoma and still be in there in Pennsylvania. So anyway they came back with their first child, which was Steven, and they moved to Okmulgee where he had the job. And he worked there for several years and then he had an opportunity to come to Bristow and buy what was a bus station from Mr. Fullerton (ph). And so he took the opportunity, and so then we ended up in Bristow and at that time I was about three. JT: And then, I forgot. Okay well thank you. Okay, now then, we were here--and this was my idea basically because I know that you worked a long time out at the garment factory MT: 19 Years JT: 19 years at the garment factory. Now first of all, did you work there until they closed down? MT: M-m JT: Oh okay MT: No, no they were going to come along--excuse me, they were coming along and cutting everybody' ; s wages, cutting their piecework' ; s. And they got to me after 19 years and were cutting mine back and they told me what my new rates were gonna be and already a lot of people had left the garment factory to go to work at the carpet plant. And so then I didn' ; t want to go work the carpet plant and I happened to drive by that Saturday morning and they were building the community bank drive in down by the railroad tracks and I thought " ; I know I can do anything they do" ; . So the next Monday, I left work early and went home, changed to look presentable, and walked into community bank and asked for an application. And the person I asked for the application was Billy Faha (ph), and he said " ; You wait right there and I' ; ll get that application for you" ; . JT: So MT: So then I went to work there about three months later JT: Okay, and so when was that, when that happened? MT: 1983 JT: So that was 1983, how much longer was the garment factory open? Do you remember? MT: Oh, a few more years, I don' ; t really know exactly. But it had a lot of, not as much staff or anything, and then I believe the manager kind of took it over in some other kind of capacity instead of actually that company that-- JT: Who was that company? MT: I believe it got changed and all and I' ; m not even sure what it was. I' ; ve heard way back, but I remember it being as Gossard Artemis (ph) JT: Gossard Artemis (ph) MT: Artemis, and then it became Miss Elaine, so maybe it was still Gossard Artemis but the products we made were under the Miss Elaine label JT: Label, okay. Okay, we' ; ll get back to some other of that, but--so you were talking earlier about when they were starting to cut things and you were talking about the items and your rate, so can you tell me how that was structured? MT: Yes, all the way from what we call the back of the building to the front, everything was set up and everything processed through there. Started out on the huge, huge tables with stacks and stacks of fabric. And then there was a tall electric type knife thing that would cut through these, I don' ; t even know how many layers of fabric, it would be, oh a foot and a half tall or so. JT: Of fabric? MT: Of fabric JT: Just laying flat? MT: Laid flat, and I' ; m not--maybe it wasn' ; t, maybe it was a foot. But it was tall. JT: Mhm MT: And this knife, they had the pattern on there and they just went around and moved that around and cut off, cut what they needed just like any other pattern JT: And you--so the pattern cut through every layer of cloth MT: Yes, the knife. And one girl actually cut her finger, maybe two fingers off. And went to the hospital and they put it back on, and she had a crooked finger but she came back to work later and anyway. JT: So, so they had these stacked. I mean this is layers of fabric MT: Yes, yes. JT: And this, wow MT: And I never worked back in that part. But then they took that and they had to take each piece and they would take so many of each piece that went together to make the garment and it' ; d be wrapped up in a bundle. JT: Mhm MT: Everything that was needed. And then it started the back, it started certain processes and went from one group of sewers did one thing and then it moved up and went to the next one, and they' ; d do their thing, bundle it back up and throw it in the bin in front of them. And then the next people would get them and do their thing and it just kept coming up until it got to the front JT: Yeah, so the--if they threw it in the bin in front of them, then the next person would just turn around and pick one up out of the bin and then turn back around and sew it MT: Yeah and some of those got kind of heavy because a lot of times there was like a dozen garments in one, maybe even more than that some of the time. And they got, they were kind of heavy. But yeah they' ; d pick up the bundle and then they' ; d take it and lay it at their machine and start doing their thing. JT: Wow MT: And I mean it went from having, you know, the seams were made and sleeves were put in and, you know, all the little details and made some beautiful beautiful things and then it' ; d move on up until it maybe get lace added around it or somewhere the lace, they used a lot of lace on things, and then they' ; d get up and it' ; d be hemmed and then it would get on up there and if it something that needed button and button holes, that was mine, I did the button holes basically, I didn' ; t do that many buttons. But I can do anywhere from between 6-8 thousand button holes in a day just going through there. But I was good at it. But anyway, so then after it left me, it went to the inspectors, every garment was inspected. And if something came up looking wrong or something, it was taken back by runners to wherever it needed to go to get fixed. And you know, maybe there' ; d be a flaw in the material that was discovered for some reason, and if it had gone, you know, it was too hard to do, that just went into the seconds. But yeah everything was inspected. And then it went to, they used to do folding, they folded everything and they went to little flat boxes. Other people probably remember, the little flat boxes, little lingerie boxes and all that were just skinny, and so everything had to be folded and put in there wrapped in tissue and so it was all in boxes. And then they went to hanging them and they didn' ; t do the boxes anymore. JT: Well, so I want to go back to, because I have some questions about this whole process, but I know that in--now these were, I understand these were pretty high class garments that were being made MT: Oh yes, yeah these were in the finest stores JT: In the finest stores, well it seems like to me that in these fine stores, that the pattern on a blouse where the sleeve would meet the shirt or blouse MT: Yeah, yeah JT: That it matches, it would match. Did, maybe that was a later thing where people got a little more-- MT: Match of what? JT: The pattern, the pattern would be-- MT: Oh like it was a plaid or something? JT: Yeah MT: They usually, they were cuffed and laid, they were laid on the pattern to come out right. JT: Oh, they just did them, it was automatically the way they laid them out that they would come out that way MT: Yeah, yeah. Yeah but yeah that' ; s--that would be how they did it to match, it' ; d all be figured out by engineers and all that set these up with the new styles and all. And oh goodness, they made so many different different items, you know, and every year of course they' ; d come out with new things and they would change the process a little bit and get going on them. There was a lot of things JT: Well if, yeah it sounds like it. Did you ever do anything except button holes? MT: Yes, yes when I very first started, I actually sewed and I was nine months pregnant and due to have my baby any day and I put a needle through my finger and I kept saying " ; I don' ; t wanna go right now, I gotta do Christmas first" ; so anyway yeah, but yeah I did that sewing for a while and then I actually got to be--to where I could do several little things, I never did what they called the overlock machines, and not too much of the straight sewing. But as far as, you know, doing the buttons and the button holes and running the pairs and just, you know, helping out on the floor some and everything, I could do a lot of those different things. JT: Why did you not do the straight sewing? Was that not quite as a specialty kind of thing? MT: They just--that' ; s not where they needed me JT: Oh okay MT: I guess after I came back, I was out for what, six weeks or so, and I came back and I think almost immediately they put me into doing, they called it tacking and it' ; d be like tacking bra straps onto a bra or something, they called it tacking and it would reinforce seams. So I did that a lot I think even before I started doing the button holes. But the button holes were tricky JT: Okay, we' ; ll get to them, but I guess I' ; m a little more interested in-- MT: The sewing part? JT: The sewing part, yeah because--but you didn' ; t really do any straight sewing. MT: I didn' ; t do that much straight sewing, like I did--at first I was, I was doing something I can' ; t really remember exactly what parts I were sewing, but they had so many different styles and maybe you might work on one type of garment for a while and then later the day or even a day or two later you' ; d be into something else that was maybe a nightgown or a robe or a heavy winter robe and stuff like that, it changed. JT: Did they make blouses and dresses and all kinds of stuff? MT: No it was all lingerie JT: Oh it was all lingerie, okay. MT: It was bras and panties and robes and little gowns, and like I said winter type things too and sometimes some flannel gowns and, you know, they made sets, things that matched each other. Like you' ; d get a robe and a gown matched and different things like that JT: Oh okay, and so--how many of the, back to the beginning of this where they cut the material MT: Mhm JT: And they had the foot layer of material, how many cutting tables did they have? MT: If I remember right, they had maybe three and if anybody' ; s ever seen the building, those cutting tables went at the back end pretty close to cross the width of the building JT: So they were big tables MT: They were long, long tables and wide, I can' ; t say exactly how, but they were tall, they weren' ; t like card table length or anything or even dinner table, they were taller. I don' ; t remember that they-- JT: Work table, a work table MT: yeah, yeah. But those tall knife things, I saw them do it a few times, I never did that. But the electricity came from the top down to the knife and it just, it just went through there and yeah. I mean they did a good job, I mean they were even, I mean the cutting never looked hacked up or anything like that. JT: Hm, and so if someone had--let' ; s leave the lid off of that, it won' ; t crinkle so much while we' ; re capturing it on--the, so how long would it take for a person to get through cutting out the pattern for one garment? MT: Well you know I don' ; t know as much as you can say because the way they laid those out, they were often times, there wasn' ; t, you know, they may have all fronts in one area and all backs in an area, all sleeves in one area, or something, so I don' ; t know. But I mean you could imagine those tables and even the biggest pieces for a nightgown were, what, five foot by three foot or something like that, you know, and they would just lay it on there. JT: But when a person got, would a person that was cutting out these patterns, would they go through one set of material, the twelve inches thick of material MT: Uh-huh JT: And then that would all get bundled up MT: Uh-huh JT: And then would they cut out more the same day? MT: They could, yeah JT: So that--they wouldn' ; t cut one time and that would be the whole thing MT: It depends on what--how many they were intending to make. But yeah most of these came through when they started on a new garment or something, they' ; d come through for weeks and weeks the same garment, the same sets of garments. JT: And really so what I' ; m trying to understand is the person doing the cutting, was it an 8 hour job to cut one pattern out through that whole-- MT: I don' ; t know how long it took, I was never actually back there. I just mostly, when I was doing some of the running and stuff, because I usually worked up towards the front in the finishing part, so I never really got to watch that very often. JT: Okay, okay. MT: I would' ; ve, it was interesting, it was JT: So they have the-- MT: I think there were three, seemed to me like there were three people that did that, cutting that I knew of, maybe there were three tables, I' ; m not sure how exactly that was back then JT: Okay, and then when that left, it went to the first set of sewer. How many, I' ; m imaging this as long rows of people doing the same thing MT: Uh-huh, yes JT: The first is sewing and then they throw it in a basket in front and then another row of people with their machines and they turn around and get stuff out of the basket and do their thing and throw it in front MT: Yeah they were big, big-- JT: How many people in a row, how many sewers-- MT: Well sometimes the rows, depending on what they were working on, sometimes the rows has more in them and sometimes they had less because a lot of it had to do with, like, if they were working on big robes and all, things had to have more room, you know, especially the big puffy ones and quilted and all that kind of thing. So things changed around but I don' ; t know, like in the section where I did some button holes, and sometimes they moved things, rearranged, but I' ; d say there were maybe three or four button hole machines lined up and those didn' ; t have to have a lot of space between them. So then there was the panty department was over to my right at one time anyway, and of course theirs all came from the panty department, it didn' ; t take that much to do them so basically they were made--maybe, I don' ; t know I' ; m guessing 8 -- 10 people that were maybe doing different things to the panties, you know, putting it together then adding the lace and the elastic and stuff like that. JT: Oh and so that was from getting the pattern material after it was cut out MT: Yeah [Indecipherable]-- JT: [Indecipherable] MT: Yeah it didn' ; t have to start at the back because there wasn' ; t that many processes so it didn' ; t have to start at the back. JT: Yeah MT: But, and they had--it was interesting, we had people come by to take tours and watch us and I had little kids that were really fascinated when I was putting on those buttons and those button holes, but there was a process and it didn' ; t take that long to really do it. You went through that stuff JT: Yeah, I can imagine that would, especially when you' ; re doing the button holes and there' ; s a machine there doing it, then you' ; re-- MT: You have to measure them, you have to pull it out like you' ; ve got a garment in your hands and of course most button holes and things are in odd numbers, they' ; re gonna be, you know, five or seven or something. But anyway you put the first button hole where it belongs and then you stretch, you pull the material to the left to a certain area, so a certain marking and then you do the next one and then you pull it and then you keep on until you get that and then you stack them back up and you throw them over on your table and then you get them all together and rolled up and bundle them up for the next person. JT: Wow, okay MT: Yeah JT: Hm, interesting. And how many of you were making button holes? Three? MT: Yeah probably something like that because some of us that did the button holes also did the buttons. JT: Okay MT: And there was, you know, and though the button machines were real close to where the button hole machine was, and I don' ; t know, it was, what can I say? It just went JT: It is-- MT: But these people, I don' ; t know, everybody was good and friendly. Every once in a while considering you had that many mostly women that were in this building, every once in a while there was some ruckus going on, but basically yeah it was good, we had dinners now and then and you know, for occasions and celebrate peoples' ; birthdays and joked around some and all but you know, if you wanted to be there to work, you stayed at your machine and you didn' ; t take a lot of breaks. You know, and then that paid off for you. JT: Okay, so I was going to get to that, but first of all before I get there to talk about the-- MT: Processes? JT: The, no the pay scale and how things worked MT: Oh that was, yeah so all these different processes there' ; d be a piece of kind of a thin cardboard, and all of the processes were, how was it. Let me kind of start over, okay so you had this piece of paper more or less about the size of a typing sheet, and it told what that was, the size of it and everything and then down below I think there were pins on, I think two rows, and they were little printed tickets. Anyway you snipped that off with your scissors and you had this stuff called paper tape, it was actually a big big roll of brown paper, like wrapping paper that was sticky. And so if you didn' ; t have a thing, a sponge to wet down, you licked them all. But anyway you wear them down and you stuck them on your paper and that' ; s what you turned in for your work, that' ; s what you did, how many of those you had on that paper. And that' ; s how you got, that was called piecework. JT: Oh okay, so when you got a garment, you got a robe and you had to put seven button holes on it, is that one of those little pieces of-- MT: No that bundle comes with its own paper JT: That bundle comes with its own MT: So whatever is in that bundle, the paper reflects how many is in that JT: Okay so you pull that one off and then you wet it and you put it on yours-- MT: Yeah, you put it on your paper JT: On your, yeah and you called it piecework, okay MT: Yeah JT: Yeah, okay. MT: That' ; s how you got paid for like, you know if you had a dozen in this one or some of them that were like thinner material could be a dozen and a half, the biggest heaviest robes a lot of times were only six in a bundle because, you know, they' ; re big and heavy. JT: But each one of those robes had the-- MT: Each bundle JT: Each bundle MT: Each bundle had this-- JT: Oh it was per bundle MT: this cardboard with it per bundle and as you did your bundle, you know your one ticket' ; s gonna cover everything you did in that bundle JT: In the whole bundle MT: In the whole bundle JT: Got it MT: So like I said, you worked and then you just kind of threw it over to the side flat and when you got done, they were kind of restacked and you went from one side to the other side by pulling it across your lap and-- JT: Did you have to wrap it back up into the bundle? MT: Yeah then you rolled it back up JT: You did, okay MT: And there was a cordlike string stuff that they used. One string, it was more of a--just a fabric type something that you rolled it up-- JT: [Indecipherable] MT: Yeah JT: Okay MT: and yeah you just rolled it back up then you tossed it in the box in front of you and the boxes were big, they could probably hold, I don' ; t know, 20 or 30 bundles at a time even because they would be, oh probably three-foot-deep and four to five feet in width and maybe, I' ; m guessing 8 or 9-foot long JT: Wow MT: So yeah, so you had these big boxes and you tossed them for the next person to pick them up and go on with it JT: That' ; s, it' ; s an assembly line MT: It is, it' ; s an assembly line. That' ; s exactly what it is. It was interesting JT: So if you were making, if you were doing six to eight thousand button holes a day, let' ; s say that--I mean that' ; s a thousand garments a day say if they had five or seven button holes. MT: Yeah I mean it was, maybe I' ; m off by a big bunch on that button hole thing because if you have one bundle of a dozen and you' ; re--yeah I may be off, it maybe it was 60 thousand. I can' ; t remember, I remember I figured it one time. How many fabrics I did JT: I thought you were gonna say you were overestimating, but you' ; re saying you' ; re underestimating MT: I' ; m probably underestimating ; I cannot remember exactly how. But I mean I would' ; ve done more than 10 or 12 bundles in a day. The button holes went fast JT: So a bundle would have a hundred garments in it? MT: No, a bundle could have a dozen, depends on what material it was. JT: Okay MT: How heavy it was, they could have a dozen, they could have a dozen and a half JT: I see, okay. MT: I guess there were some maybe come--the panties usually had I think two dozen or something JT: Yeah MT: But I didn' ; t work those much, I did tacking on them though. So when you had an overlock string that was left, that wasn' ; t actually looped in that were a stress point, that' ; s when you tacked and you made this little zigzag tack the machine wouldn' ; t do anything else except do that, I mean it was designed just for that. JT: Oh okay, and you' ; re just feeding the garment into it MT: You just put what you want tacked under it just like you would if you were putting a button on it, you' ; d just stick it under there and do it and go to the next one and go to the next one and-- JT: Yeah, it' ; s an assembly line MT: The other thing that I did was, [Indecipherable], the other thing that I did for a while, we made bras. And so I had this process that I would, I can' ; t think of the word. You take these bra straps and this machine held those little metal brackets and you had to feed these through a certain way to get the bra straps made. I mean, you had these long thin pieces of a ribbon type material and then the one end would be--had been sewed across, I' ; d done that one too, and you would take these little tiny pieces of strap and you' ; d fold it up and it' ; d go through your machine. And what you did, you just kept going, you just didn' ; t do one and cut it off. You just fed one then you fed another and a lot of the processes in the back were the same thing. You fed what you did and the stitching, the thread actually held on and did the next one and then you went through when you finished, clipped them all apart. JT: Okay MT: It was, yeah kind of forgot kind of about that part but yeah. A lot of them it' ; s just like those little strap things and then you' ; d go and you' ; d then, depending on which job you were doing, you' ; d feed those through these little metal things, and they still do, and it was pretty interesting and depending on how fast you got on that, you' ; d know how much you could make. JT: Yeah, Okay. And so you were saying earlier about the pay scale and the way they counted, they had the counting system, which were the little tabs that you took off MT: Mhm mhm. JT: The bundle and stuck it onto your tally thing MT: Yeah, and you knew, you kept your own tally of what you done for a day and you had it down in your little book and so when you got your check and it showed what you' ; d done, if it wasn' ; t right you could take of it. JT: Okay MT: And you did JT: And so was there a pay scale of--was it different based on maybe the material you were gonna do? MT: Well they--that was set up by a technician who came by and a lot of times on my jobs, because I worked at a steady pace, and kept things going and a lot of the times I would be the one that they timed to set a rate and it' ; d be so much for whichever job that that happened to be. But I was timed a lot of the times on just about every job I ever did, I was timed on. But they had to have somebody who was consistent and-- JT: Didn' ; t they have quotas that they expected you to do so much? MT: Yeah, they wanted you to do so much and you know, if you fell behind well then the next person' ; s gonna fall behind. But there were still people who liked to take long coffee breaks with their thermostats, you know, in the bathroom so-- but I thought, you know, how do you make any money if you' ; re gonna go in there and spend 20 minutes a day. Of course, if you' ; re fast enough, you' ; re probably gonna make your quota and you' ; ve got that time if that' ; s what you wanna do, so yeah it was work, it was work, but I can still remember it. To me, it was enjoyable to try to beat your own rate or something. Yup, it' ; s a challenge. JT: Okay, so you worked there 19 years, and you talked a little about your pregnant and you stuck a needle through your-- MT: Yeah JT: Why did you go to work there? MT: Well, it' ; s just like anybody else. You' ; re young and you' ; re getting a family and sometimes one income just doesn' ; t do it. And so you start looking around. JT: Okay so you were, you started looking around for a job. It wasn' ; t that you had a perplivity (ph) to do some sewing MT: No no cause it' ; s--there' ; s so much of it that you would not call basic sewing JT: No it was an assembly line MT: Uh-huh, and I loved it, I always loved to sew and make my own clothes and stuff, but that was not like that. JT: But did you think it was going to be when you went and applied? Did you think you were going to be sewing? MT: No I really didn' ; t know what to expect, but when you had to apply, they put you down to a sewing machine with a piece of paper with some, like, squiggles and curves and straight lines and all and that' ; s what they looked at if you could do that pretty well you could get hired. But if you went all over the place and couldn' ; t follow those lines, forget it. JT: Well that' ; s interesting MT: Yeah it was, that was like besides the application, that was about the only real thing you had to do as I can remember. JT: Yeah because being in an assembly line it seems like you' ; re just moving the material to the machine and the machine' ; s doing all the work. MT: Well you have to guide it, there' ; s the actual sewing part but you have to do a lot of guiding JT: Okay MT: Just like when I' ; m doing the button holes or something, I' ; ve gotta move it a certain length across there and then keep going. So yeah, and the buttons the same thing. You would just, you moved it over a certain length, so it was all--yeah, that' ; s, you had to know how to follow those lines, especially if you were doing the sewing part. JT: Yeah MT: And most everybody I think started out on the sewing parts, that would seem to me if I could remember right that' ; s a lot--and a lot of people stayed in that and that' ; s what they did all the time was the sewing. JT: Yeah, okay. MT: Yeah JT: So do you remember when you started? MT: I started in something like March or April of 1964 JT: And how old were you? 22? 21? MT: Hm, 1964, yeah I was-- JT: 21 and 8 months MT: Probably 21, going on 22. JT: Yeah MT: That sounds about right. JT: [Indecipherable], Okay. Did they, did they have things like team leads or bosses of an area? MT: Oh yeah there were bosses in different areas that helped you, you know, if you needed help and make sure things are going smoothly and everything and yeah different sections had different people. Now I mean there wasn' ; t like one person sitting there watching buttons and button holes and stuff like that, but you had someone that made sure things got, you know, flowed through right and everything. And some really good supervisors and stuff and I was even doing that for a while on some things, you know, just to make sure things were working right. JT: Yeah, okay I was wondering if you ever did that. MT: Yeah, like I said I ran the floor, I wasn' ; t really a supervisor per say, I just, you know, if someone, if they needed me to do something I did it, that' ; s all there was to it. If I could do it, I went and did it so. JT: Okay, so--yeah I thought, sitting here thinking about how an assembly line worked like that, is that you would have someone, not a supervisor, but maybe a team leader MT: No I don' ; t know of anything like that, you kind of just did your own part and I guess if you fell behind and didn' ; t do enough, then you maybe had a talking to or something, you know, if you couldn' ; t keep up the work that needed to be done, like I said it had to go to the next person. JT: Did you ever get a talking to? MT: I don' ; t think I did JT: Did you admit it? MT: My talking to was when they were gonna drop my raise, that was me talking. JT: So, yeah that' ; s kind of interesting that the way that would happen. See, to me that typically when someone they are entry level in a position, that they' ; re paid entry level wages or entry level rates. And then as they get better and more productive, they get higher rates and-- MT: I think there was probably a minimum wage that you would do hourly, but basically it was the piece work. Now there were people who some of them who didn' ; t do piece work that didn' ; t even have the tickets or anything, they just had a job that they did for so many hours. JT: Okay MT: And yeah I mean there were some that were at that JT: Yeah, okay. And so I guess where I' ; m--what I' ; m thinking about now is if people started getting hired to go out to the carpet factory, it seemed like did the orders start, did they start losing orders out there? Or-- MT: Well JT: Because it, they could' ; ve just hired other people and kept them the same-- MT: Yeah, and they were still hiring at that time, but mostly they weren' ; t because the carpet factory had come in and there they were cutting out rates. It was just like me when they got to me, but they started I think towards the back and, of course I was towards the front, and by the time that they got to me, there had been a lot of people had left. JT: And typically if a company wants to keep a worker, they' ; d pay more. MT: Yeah JT: They don' ; t come and say [Indecipherable] MT: No, no. JT: That' ; s weird MT: And they were cutting every bodies rates JT: Huh MT: I mean, they felt like with the price of what they sold these things for and all and how much it cost to get them through there, they--maybe they felt like they had to and maybe that' ; s eventually what happened. But of course this was American made, American rates, and then you realize what started happening with all the stuff coming in from all the other countries, it just kind of blew it all apart. JT: And so you talked about--also, earlier you talked about the label, the Miss Elaine MT: Mhm JT: Were there other labels too or just the one Miss Elaine MT: Miss Elaine was it, now I think there was maybe a variation of what set on the label like luxury or I don' ; t know, [Indecipherable] JT: Yeah MT: And I don' ; t think I--did I ever tack on labels? They were just tacked on as the garment was finished, that was one of the final things I think. Some of those may have been put on before they were sewed, I really can' ; t remember that part. JT: Okay but it was all Miss Elaine? MT: It was all Miss Elaine JT: But different quality items MT: But before I started it was called I think Artemis, Gossard Artemis (ph) from way way back, and then somehow it went to Miss Elaine JT: [Indecipherable] MT: I think that was actually after I started that it went to being Miss Elaine JT: Yeah, the garment factory itself started operating in Bristow in the mid to late 50' ; s, didn' ; t it? So when you went to work for them, it was already-- MT: It was probably earlier than that. Well, I don' ; t know. JT: I' ; ve seen some pictures that show the garment factory in [Indecipherable] MT: I don' ; t really know, it was, it was quite a few years before I started because there had been some people who had been there already, I don' ; t know, 12 or 14 years I think when I started. JT: Okay, okay. And the Miss Elaine label, what stores carried that brand, that label? MT: Whatever there was back then, mostly it' ; d be exclusive stores, you know JT: High end MT: Yeah, and like the Macys maybe, what' ; s the big one in Chicago, and then there' ; s Zac' ; s and then there' ; s I don' ; t know. Yeah, that' ; s where they went to. JT: Wow MT: That' ; s where they went to, these were well made made in America and all this, you know. JT: And I heard that Clarks in-- MT: Clarks had them, yeah. Clarks was one of the big ones, yeah JT: Utica Square MT: Yeah, and Clarks even when they were just downtown JT: Oh MT: Before they even did Utica Square in the early 50s, I think they already had one the way I understand. JT: Wow, okay. MT: Of course I wasn' ; t there then, but just the different things I heard JT: Yeah, so all the jobs that you did, did you ever have to fold the garments and put them in the boxes? MT: No, I didn' ; t have to do that. But there were some people who could, and they were on piece work too, that folding and there were some people who could fold those really nice and put those right down in that box and like I think like the panties a lot of the time there' ; d be like three in a box. And of course the gowns and all that, they' ; d just be one. Then those boxes were all stacked up over and then the shipping department would out them into the bigger boxes for transporting out JT: Yeah, cases, cases of those little smaller boxes. It seems to me that someone had to pop those boxes into shape, that they would' ; ve come in flat and that someone would' ; ve had to-- MT: Yeah if I remember right as you did it, I had one very good friend that was a folder and as you did it, you just took that box, you know, and you' ; ve seen these flat boxes, they have these little creases on there and everything. You' ; d just take that flat box and you' ; d flip it around, put your garments in it, flip the top around, and-- JT: Right MT: Generally, they weren' ; t the attached tops that I can remember though, they were separate JT: Separate, yeah that' ; s [Indecipherable] MT: Yeah JT: Okay MT: And you know, I didn' ; t do that part so that' ; s just what I saw JT: Yeah MT: Oh but she was fast JT: I would imagine you' ; d have to be fast if you got-- MT: The thing about it was, you may want to put this in or maybe not, but that was Marie Shelton and she had that arthritis in her hands so her hands were getting-- JT: And it was from all that? MT: It could be from all that, but she just got--she just kept at it and then I' ; m not sure how many years that they were still doing the folding, a few years, and then they went to the hanging. But I can' ; t remember exactly hanging went--might have been quite a few years before, I can' ; t remember. But yeah, then they went to the hanging and you know I don' ; t know exactly what they did, they put plastic bags over them. You know, each one had its plastic bag, and then from there they went to the shipping department and I' ; m not sure how they--if they just laid so many in each big box or how they did that really. JT: Yeah, okay. Well, so you mostly did button holes and buttons MT: Tacking JT: And tacking MT: And the--I forgot about the bra straps actually, and yeah I did a few of those things. It was interesting though but especially when I think I was doing the tacking ; it was like almost [Indecipherable]. I used to sit there and write poems JT: Well I was gonna say a lot of times, and I learned this years and years ago, that people who like assembly line work, they like it because it' ; s repetitious and they can actually think of things MT: Oh yeah, you can--like I said I could' ; ve wrote novels. But I did write some poetry and what I used to write it on was that little brown sticky paper. And we all, most of us had our little radios with us and we listened to music and everything and, you know, nobody turned them up so loudly. Usually you could hear it right in your area. Because, you know, machines weren' ; t like stacked on top of each other, you had several feet in between JT: And did the machines make a lot of noise? MT: Some of them did JT: Yeah, I can imagine they did MT: Some of them did, but it wasn' ; t like the tremendous amount of noise, you know, it wasn' ; t. JT: Okay MT: Yeah, it was-- JT: Was there a lot of movement of the workers from one section to the other? MT: Yeah because a lot of the people had been there long enough that they did different things, and if they need someone else to go up and do something different, you know, they' ; d move them. Like, like if someone was--some of the processes where you almost sewed the whole garment together, then it went on to get finished. But there were a lot of people who could switch off and go do different things, and the people who did the hemming and stuff, there were quite few of them and those little rolled hem things, I mean they can throw those things through there and it just-- JT: The machine did that though, [Indecipherable] MT: Yeah you just had to-- JT: Guide MT: Guide the material through JT: Yeah MT: But you know, if you didn' ; t you' ; re gonna have big old chunks taken out where--there were a few things like an overlock machine, that most people don' ; t know, maybe they do. [Indecipherable]. Anyway, the overlock machines, that cut off the edge of the material. If you ever looked at some of your things that are sewed, well you see these, there' ; s no real seam, there' ; s just this little tiny edging that holds the material together. Well that' ; s an overlock machine, and that cut off material as it did, and so yeah if you went the wrong way, you could mess things up pretty good. JT: Mhm MT: And that' ; s why ever once in a while you realize that you try on something, one fits different than the other, and it may have been the same size starting with, but it may have got adjusted a little bit unknowingly. But most of the time the inspectors, when they were inspecting, they could notice things like that that were really a flaw, you know, and they wouldn' ; t, they' ; d just pull it out. But it was interesting. JT: I' ; ve also wondered why that happened, because that happens to me, I don' ; t know, it seems like a lot. MT: Yeah, oh yeah. There' ; s different things that you could try on JT: Blue jeans and things like that MT: Yeah, the very same size. I remember I was in the store one time and I went to try on a pair of blue jeans and I couldn' ; t even get my foot through the leg, it was so narrow. And that was before they had narrow leggings. I thought whoa, this one go taken care of. No wonder it was in the seconds. But yeah, it' ; s, that can happen real easy. So I never did overlock, I never did that one at all. JT: What size is your foot? I' ; m just kidding MT: My foot JT: So, okay have we kind of been through the workings of the garment factory? I mean is there something that I didn' ; t get to to ask you about? MT: Well I' ; m trying to think of what, I mean yeah there is probably some things, I don' ; t know exactly what, I mean like I said we all, we all got along really well. There were a few things, there were some jealousies going on and just different things could happen, and people would get kind of nasty. I had, maybe y' ; all will put this in, but I had one girl that, she was jealous because I made so much money, I made way more than her. She was doing the same job, and there was two of them and they were behind me. I even stepped back and showed them a better process, something--they were never doing the same process, but better way to move it or handle it or something to try and help them speed up. Then as soon as I' ; d sit back down at my machine, they were laughing behind my back because they slowed me down. So then this one, she would--she was behind me but a little bit over to the right and she would start asking me about my boys who played sports and how they were this and that and how they were doing and different stuff so I turned around and visited a few minutes. Well then they' ; d laugh because they slowed me down, they thought. It didn' ; t slow me down much ; I' ; d just go that much harder. JT: Well did, maybe not your machine, but maybe your machine. Did they ever just break? MT: Oh yeah, we had two really good mechanics and I think actually there for a while there was three, and you put up a flag at your place and if you were having enough of a problem and they didn' ; t come soon enough, you got one of the four girls to go tell them what was going on because it was your downtime and if you wasn' ; t doing it, you wasn' ; t getting tickets. So you know, if you were down for 40 minutes, you could lose a lot of product there JT: Yeah MT: And so anyway, yeah it was--but they worked hard and they were-- JT: Never had the machine just blow up on you or anything? MT: Yeah, never had them blow up, I did have--one thing I had was the button pole machine was, they couldn' ; t get it to not skip and sometimes I' ; d see those button holes and as I' ; d finish I said, you know, it had a skip spot in it or something. Then I' ; d have to take that button hole and recenter that and try to hit it back in the very same place cause when that button hole was made, it also cut the hole. The knife came down and cut it just as it was made, so if I had to redo one, which I did redid a lots of them. Anyway, I had to try to set that where you couldn' ; t tell that it' ; d actually been sewed over, and if it was bad enough, I had to pull the thread, but if you pull the thread, then the material didn' ; t have--it was kind of looser right there. So when you tried to go around it, it lot of time didn' ; t look any good anymore so, yeah it was--so anyway, that was part of the timing. When I was having a lot of problems with that, I' ; d get him to come out there and retime me I said and just, you know, stand here for two hours and watch what I do, watch how many times I have to redo these things, so that made a difference on my timing. JT: Yeah MT: So I' ; m sure other people did kind of the same thing, you know, if there was something that was troublesome they kept having a problem with some certain something. But that button hole machine, that was, I don' ; t know, probably would be the worst for that, as far as having to redo something that quick. But yeah, it was-- JT: You never got a button hole needle to the finger, did you? MT: No I didn' ; t get that thing, I' ; m glad I didn' ; t get that thing. But yeah that needle went right down through my finger and I was sitting there looking at it. Of course when you do it, you automatically jerk, so I mean it had broke it off when I jerked and there it was JT: Was there thread in it? MT: No, no I don' ; t think there was thread in it. There was a lot of threads came through that you had to keep it threaded, but when I got it off, no there wasn' ; t, but I don' ; t think anyway. But I think they sent me out to the emergency room and had that, or maybe they just pulled it, I can' ; t even remember for sure. I just didn' ; t wanna have my baby yet because it was two or three days before Christmas and I had babies at home JT: You thought that was going to put you into labour? MT: Well yeah, and then it ended up that--cause Mikey was actually due on Christmas day, he was three weeks late. So there it was, almost Christmas day when that happened and I mean I just did not want to have him be in the hospital away from Steve [Indecipherable]. So yeah, it kind of shook me up a little bit. JT: Okay, well did you ever, did you ever do things like dad did? Was there another plant? Was a Gossard plant that you would go--? MT: There were other plants, but I never had to go to one JT: You never had to? MT: No, I think maybe, maybe, especially some of the supervisors or something like that, and I' ; m not sure whether the technicians that did the timing and stuff if they ever went to other plants to see how well they were doing a certain process, I don' ; t know for sure on that. I just remember two different people that were [Indecipherable] of the technicians that worked with me and you know, of course when I was first started the first few years, no one ever come to time me for anything. But as I got into more and more doing different things and was doing good on that, then they come and time me. JT: Yeah, who trained you? MT: Who trained me? JT: Who trained? Who trained? MT: Well, if you went to a new job, you kind of just watched what they were doing and you were kind of showed that way the person who' ; s already doing some of them, you just kind of watch them and then you sit down and try it for a little while and then you went after it JT: That' ; s when you did it, okay MT: Yeah, I mean it--most of it, it didn' ; t take a whole lot of training to do that or anything JT: Okay, yeah. MT: Yeah, you know especially since usually it was just like one more or less process, two at the most. Now doing these buckles on these bra straps, that was intricate because there had to be a certain way that you did this and this and this, and you had a foot thing or something that would raise them up and down, I don' ; t remember how that worked. But man, I could fly through those things, they were--it was interesting though. JT: Could you do six thousand buckles a day? MT: I don' ; t know how many I did, but I did a bunch JT: Did you really? MT: Yeah because you know, here you got a stack of bras coming through but there' ; s gonna be two of these straps reach one and then you had the longer ones and the shorter ones I think, no I think most of them just had the one. They had it one time did some double or something. But anyway, it was--that was, and it was one time James, sometimes those little buckles down in this little tube they would jam up, so I took and I banged it into my hand and I tore up some tendons in my hand, I hit it that hard. I had some pretty good pain there for a while, but it didn' ; t stop me or anything, I don' ; t think I went to the doctor with it, but it did tore up my hand, it would just kind of freeze up and stuff. But you know, that' ; s just part of it. JT: Yeah, how many people worked up there in the production part? I don' ; t mean supervisors and that, but do you know about how big the--? MT: You know ; I don' ; t really know. There' ; s some people who might know about how many were there ; I' ; m trying to think of I can think of anybody right off who' ; s still around. The ones that been there the longest, but yeah there for a while they were hiring quite a few and I guess it could' ; ve been in the neighbourhood of a hundred, 125. JT: Okay that' ; s what I was wondering because I didn' ; t know. Around 100 or was it 200 or something like that? MT: I think? No it wouldn' ; t have been anything like 300, but I don' ; t know if there' ; d even be 200. I would think an average season would usually have 75 to 100 people JT: Okay MT: I' ; m trying to think of different rows and--but I don' ; t know, I mean when you get to counting them, it' ; s got to be around 100 I would say JT: And so what' ; s this--can you explain what the seasons were? MT: Well you were always way ahead of the seasons so you were making things that were for the winter, you were making those during the summer time, and then you would get back into making the thinner, finer things that would go out for the spring and all and that' ; s usually when you would start new styles and stuff, and then when it was gonna start on the winter stuff, you would have some new styles, sometimes the same styles and something else added JT: Well when you said that there were 75 to 100 per season, so did that, did they-- MT: No I' ; m just saying during all those years, I think that the average would' ; ve been JT: Okay MT: As the year rotated, and all those years rotated, probably the average for any season would' ; ve been I would say 75 to 100 JT: Okay MT: I was thinking how many people there were in just different areas, you know, how many cutters there were, how many sewers, how many folders or hangers, how many, you know, button holers, how many of the panties and just, yeah I would guess it would have to be something like that. JT: Yeah, okay MT: I Think there was five inspectors, five or six inspectors. They had tall table things and the tables were, they were angled and they were kind of thin slats with not very much room in between the slats, and they' ; d throw those things up on there and there was a bright light on them, and then they would go through and they would look at the button holes, look at the buttons, I guess they just to match them up, look at the hem wasn' ; t wavy and, you know, just different things. And of course when the folders or the hangers, sometimes they' ; d get around there and they' ; d find something that got missed, you know. JT: Mhm, sure. MT: Yeah, it happened. JT: So when they did that and when they went from to the next seasons garments, was there any downtime while they [Indecipherable] the machines or anything? MT: No, no they' ; d usually start out a new season, if I understand it right anyway, they' ; d start out a new season, well they' ; d have to start at least one table would start cutting the newer stuff, or they may be finishing up on another table cutting, you know. And then they' ; d start and so then they' ; d just have a few machines over to one side that would maybe start on the rows or something and then-- JT: Okay MT: Actually the robes stay towards the back because I know when I did buttons and button holes and tacking on the robes, I think I had to move back there to do some of them, yeah I' ; m pretty sure those--and they were so heavy too because I mean even if you got six or whatever they had in those bundles, that' ; s big and it gets bulkier and heavier JT: Depending on [Indecipherable] MT: It' ; s a lot to move around JT: Yeah, okay MT: So, I just remember that one time when I was doing some of the--I know I had to go in the back JT: Yeah MT: To do it, yeah I was--we were working overtime and it was a Saturday and usually we just worked until noon on Saturday, and they were needing some stuff done and I was working on these robes, and I was tired and I didn' ; t really want to and I asked my supervisor, I said " ; I will come back after lunch if you let me bring my iced tea with me" ; because you' ; re not supposed to have anything to drink, that' ; s the deal, and she let me and I didn' ; t spill it or anything, but yeah she let me. I said " ; if I can' ; t bring my tea with me, I' ; m not coming back" ; so JT: The store in Chicago MT: Hm? JT: The store in Chicago that we talked about earlier, Neiman Marcus (ph), was that it? MT: Yes, I think it was JT: Neman Marcus MT: Because Jennet took me there one time, was just as much alter, but I was already at the back then. But anyway, I bought a Christmas decoration there and when I saw that, I remembered that was one of them that was on the list too JT: Yeah, okay MT: But I mean it wasn' ; t, they didn' ; t--I think the later maybe, they may have started going to a Pennys or not ever a sears I don' ; t think, but Pennys may at one time have handled some of the Miss Elaine, much later though. But yeah when I started quite a few years to that, it was just these exclusives. There was a shop in Sharwood (ph), a town in Pennsylvania where my family is from, there was a little small shop, you know, exclusive shop and they had it in that shop JT: Hm, yeah MT: So yeah, that' ; s the typical of where they were at JT: Oh okay, is that Brams still around? MT: I think it is JT: Is it? Okay MT: I think it is JT: Wow MT: So I don' ; t know for sure, I know they had quite a few other factories at different places, but I' ; m not--I don' ; t remember the, and I used to kind of know some names but I don' ; t now remember where all they were. Missouri I think had one or two, maybe around Joplin or Saint Louis, somewhere up that way because it seemed like, seemed like our manager had to go up that way a few times or something. So yeah, there was some connections between with all the different plants, but I know that one time too I understood that sometimes they would do an entirely different items than what we were doing. You know, they might have a complete different line of [Indecipherable] and stuff like that than what we were handling, you know or buy them in different colours or whatever. JT: Yeah MT: Yeah, cause-- JT: Okay MT: Cause lot of times, we would be handling three--when you start on a line, you would be, you know, on one--what am I trying to say? On one design, so you' ; d basically be working mostly on maybe one or two designs going through all the time, you know. You didn' ; t have a whole bunch of different, so you did, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of any said item, and that could go on for quite a few months. JT: Mhm MT: So, and I know if you went to the store and looked at Miss Elaine stuff, you saw stuff--I saw stuff that I had never seen before JT: Mhm MT: So, yeah. And we could, we were given the option of ordering things JT: Oh from the other factory? MT: Well for any, we could look in the catalogue and order anything, we could order things that we made, and then a lot of people in Bristow knew that they would sell their left over cloth sometimes, and of course we were right there so we got first chance to get anything, and laces and stuff like that when they quit using a certain lace, they would, you know, you could go back and if you want some of it you could buy it, and it was pretty handy. JT: It sounds handy MT: And I think there' ; s some stuff of course as usual in any place like that that came out of there that wasn' ; t bought JT: Yeah MT: That' ; s just I guess normal, but-- JT: Yeah MT: Yeah, there' ; s still people who have some of these this material and all. I have a few little scraps of it, I don' ; t have very anything really big anymore. But yeah, you know I' ; d buy these different things and it' ; s like, yeah it was handy if you did any sewing at home, a lot of people did, you know. Back then a lot more people sewed, you know it was cool. So I mean we were, we were a good--we had all had good report with our supervisors and especially up where I was and everything. So this one time I was going getting ready to go to Pennsylvania and they took through about five or six different people back there, they took this one fabric and made me more or less a sundress, with no pattern, they just cut it and it just had, it just came up around--it had some sort of pattern, come up and tied on the shoulders and it had this big swirly skirt and they even put a liner to it and everything. That was the prettiest dress though, I wish I hadn' ; t got rid of it, I mean it was almost like a dancing dress or something, it was just so neat. But yeah things would happen like that, you know, people were good, people were good. So it was a good place to work, I--and when I first changed jobs, I had a hard time not getting my old pickup not to end up up there at the parking lot instead of going downtown, I don' ; t know how many times I did that. And then I dreamt that I was, I dreamt that I was doing my job at the bank, but then I was coming getting off at the bank early and coming out there and working for a few hours, I was doing both. It was hard to give up, I mean I didn' ; t hate the job or anything. JT: Yeah MT: It was a challenge where at the bank it wasn' ; t, there wasn' ; t no challenge really. I mean just do your best, but you know. JT: Was there any ever any talk of, or maybe it was, but was there a union out there? MT: Oh yeah we were union JT: Were you? Okay MT: Yeah, I get a small pension now because I was there 19 years and not a lot but it comes in every month JT: But did anybody wanna go on strike? MT: No I don' ; t think we ever did, there was one thing happened that one time and what was that? For some reason we did have to shut down and I don' ; t remember all of the reasons behind it, but we all actually got unemployment and they set it up to where this unemployment place would come and I think we went to that, you know up here on 10th street? That white building? At 10th and chestnut? JT: Mhm, yeah the community center? MT: Okay, I think that' ; s where they--yeah I think that' ; s where they set it up, and so every week we had to go up there and of course I was one of the last ones to be off, but I was also one of the last ones to come back too. I mean we could all see it coming, and I don' ; t remember why we were off, but we were off for like I think about 6 weeks to 2 months. Something like that, then we it gradually got going again. I don' ; t remember the reasoning behind all that. JT: It seems to me that they may have to retool every once in a while MT: I don' ; t know, maybe it-- I don' ; t know, maybe the, maybe they just weren' ; t doing as well or something, or maybe, I don' ; t know what it really was. Maybe the orders weren' ; t coming in fast enough or something, I don' ; t know. I just cannot remember what that was all about, but then we got started back and then I' ; m trying in my mind to think how long was that before they started doing all this, you know, redoing everything on the rates and everything so I thought. It was probably at least a few years, maybe that was the ultimate thing they found out they had to do or something. JT: Yeah I don' ; t know MT: Yeah they lost a lot of people, but lot of people went out there and ended up freezing stuff they shouldn' ; t have and everything else, especially when it went to a lock plant and had that. Yeah I mean out there sometimes you get your allergies will kick up and stuff, and man I hate to take my allergy pill because sometimes that would slow me down a little, because I' ; d kind of get sleepy. You know, get up and walk around for a few minutes or something, go ask my supervisor if there' ; s anything I could do for her for a bit or something, you know, but usually it did, it yeah, I didn' ; t want to take that allergy pill. JT: Well-- MT: There' ; s so many dyes in it in that fabric and everything JT: Oh most certainly MT: Yeah, and then all the lint of course and everything JT: Yeah it seemed like there' ; d be, yeah, particle matter in the air from cutting and stuff MT: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. JT: It just, yeah [Indecipherable] MT: Well I think, I' ; m pretty sure that the girls back there actually wore masks when they were cutting because of that and I don' ; t think I ever wore--had to wear a mask or anything, but by the time it got up to me, the worst thing about that was those big big boxes, when you got toward the bottom of those big boxes to pull you out a bundle, there' ; d be these huge, huge spiders. Those big ol' ; grass spiders, you know, with the tan ones. Ugh I hated those things, I have nightmares JT: Oh my gosh MT: Because I hate spiders, oh I hate spiders. JT: Wow MT: Yeah I wished, I just happened to remember that too. There were things, there were things. But just, this is a part you won' ; t want to put in there, but when we had the dinners, we knew who made what and we knew who' ; s we avoided JT: [Indecipherable] MT: And there were two or three of those that we avoided, but there was some interesting food too, it was always good but still, yeah. JT: Yeah MT: Yeah, we had to, you had to JT: Okay, well I' ; m not gonna ask--you know I really wanted to do this to get through how the garment factory worked MT: Yeah JT: And I think I' ; ve got pretty much a sense of the way things worked and the assembly line MT: If I could add anything, I' ; d just--I don' ; t know, you know, it just moved from the back to the front, there was separate machine shop. There was a separate place that worked up the laces and there was a, you know, different little processes that had to be done JT: Yeah MT: I mean some people had to sit there for hours and I don' ; t, I' ; m not sure, I don' ; t think they had tickets, maybe they did, I don' ; t know. And they' ; d tie little bitty bows together, you know, all day long they were tying these bows, tying these bows. Yeah, I mean and these bows looked perfect JT: They didn' ; t have a machine that tied a bow MT: No, but what you do is like you could do it at home, you take two nails and then you just wrap that around, flip it, and you' ; re done. JT: Oh is what they did MT: But yeah, the nails make them all come out the same, so yeah. There' ; s a lot of our things that had these little bows, little about two and a half to three inch bows, a lot of things had bows JT: Yeah MT: Yeah those ladies sit there and tied those bows and chatted and chatted and chatted, I mean. JT: And then they' ; d be tacked on MT: Yeah then they' ; d be tacked on, yeah I did a lot of tacking on the bows and yeah, that tacking machine was pretty interesting because it' ; d doo-doo, and it' ; s done. Doo-doo, and it' ; s done. I mean, just like, and what it does is it, I think it sews, it may sew one way and back straight and then zig-zags over JT: Okay MT: Yeah, and so like I said, if you could, you went ahead and just did one after another and then you had these little scissor things that you held in your hand and you just clip them like that, you know they weren' ; t like big scissors, they were like clipper things. So everybody had their clippers and you protected your clippers. Because at that time, it wouldn' ; t be a big price now, but you know, I don' ; t know some of them paid $5 or $6 even back then, they may be cheaper now. JT: You had to buy them? MT: Yeah, yeah. So yeah you protected the clippers. But most people didn' ; t ever bother anything, you know usually you could have--you could leave your radio there, you could leave your box of tissues and all this and--another funny thing in this one lady, whatever she, wherever she worked back there, and I can' ; t remember what it was for that these things, whatever she did, she may have put on lace. Anyway, it had like masking tape in strips, and she started out this one time and put that masking tape together, and then she kept putting all her masking tape instead of just wadding it up and throwing it out, she' ; d stick it on this ball. She ended up with a ball as big as a basketball. JT: How long did it take? How long did it take her to do that? MT: I don' ; t know, she was on for quite a while, I' ; d say a year or two, I don' ; t know maybe longer. Maybe shorter, I don' ; t know. But it was--it was, someone stole it. JT: Oh wow MT: Someone took her ball of this tape. It was sad because I mean, you know, you' ; re--it' ; s your work, it' ; s what you' ; ve done, it' ; s just kind of like, you know, meeting your goals or something, you know? You can see, right, exactly, yeah took her ball of tape. JT: Wow MT: No one ever did own up to it. But yeah that was kind of interesting, I think it must have been on lace or something, something that would' ; ve--that would' ; ve come unwrapped if it wasn' ; t taped down. So that' ; s what I' ; m thinking it was something like the laces or something, but yeah she had that ball of tape. Crazy. There was a lot of things happened out there though, you know, just different things JT: Well, I think we' ; ve been at this for-- MT: How long? JT: How long have we been at this? An hour? MT: Almost two hours? JT: An hour and 12 minutes MT: Oh yeah I was here at 4 JT: Yeah MT: Oh so yeah, but that--yeah, I' ; ve been here since, yeah. JT: So Bug [Indecipherable] MT: So you gonna edit that? You gonna put bug in there, are you gonna leave that? JT: Yeah I think so, I think I will. I' ; ll have to explain that, but-- MT: Well you can explain that, you can explain the family thing and all JT: Yeah MT: You know? And just say this is my oldest sister and whatever JT: Yeah, yeah this is my oldest sister. My dad had a nickname for her, he called her Jane Bug because of the June Bug, and so that kind of got-- MT: Actually no, he called my Betsy. And that got started from Janet, so Janet started calling me, couldn' ; t say Mary Jane so she said Mary Jane, and then my two brothers and my cousin decided it sounded like she was saying drain, so they started calling me drain bug. JT: Oh, okay. MT: It was Janet that did that, I just sent her a birthday card, I almost reminded her of that. JT: Okay MT: Anyway, so anyway they switched it to bug from Drain Bug JT: You got shortened a bug MT: Yeah JT: Okay MT: So yeah daddy actually did call me Betsy among other things I think, but yeah JT: Well I heard him calling--there' ; s several members of our family named Jane MT: He' ; s called Betsy JT: No, the-- MT: Oh it' ; s called Jane? JT: It' ; s called Jane, and I' ; ve heard him call someone Jane Bug MT: Did he? JT: Yeah MT: I think he called your daughter Jane Bug JT: Yeah, maybe MT: Yeah JT: That might' ; ve been it MT: Yeah JT: Anyway, okay well-- MT: Yeah and Janet did that same--instead of Jane she would say it sounded more like drain JT: Mhm MT: And yeah, Butch and Bobby, and probably Butch and Buddy mostly is the one that picked up on it JT: Okay MT: And-- JT: Okay well-- MT: And switched it JT: Yeah, well I was gonna say thank you Bug for doing this, and-- MT: It was interesting to try to think of all this stuff JT: Yeah MT: That' ; s why I hope I haven' ; t left out any exciting for important things about it JT: Well and you were there, this is what you remembered in your years there so MT: Well I can tell you another thing that you may not put in there or not. Anyway this one time we were--we always had our radios right there and one of my real good friends was across from me and she was one that did the hanging so we could chat back and forth a little bit, but always had the radio. Well I listened to this one station out of Tulsa, and one of the pizza companies was giving out these tickets, and then they had these drawings every day, maybe even more than one a day, I can' ; t remember it. Anyway, so we had our radios all tuned to this station so we could hear the numbers called. So we' ; d take our weekends and go to different pizza places in Tulsa and get tickets. So then instead of holding all tickets, we' ; d write our list of numbers down so we had this list of numbers. So this one time I had to go over to the IRS the day before, and really bugged me out even though it didn' ; t cost me a bunch or anything, but just the whole thing had been traumatic and bummed me out. So there I was, it was in the morning and working away and everything and they were getting ready to call some numbers and I told Genie (ph), I said " ; I don' ; t even wanna look" ; I was just, you know, kind of bummed out and everything and so they go to call these numbers and I told Genie, I said " ; That sounds like one of my numbers" ; so I grabbed my list, sure enough it was my number. So I ran to the front and had to use a payphone. Well I grabbed some quarters and maybe, I don' ; t know, some people handed me a couple of quarters--you only had five minutes to call it in. So I run out there and they' ; re looking at me in the office like, and I said " ; You can fire--don' ; t fire me" ; but I said " ; You can clock me out or what you' ; ve gotta do, but I' ; ve gotta use this phone" ; and then you couldn' ; t get the quarters to go in the slot, I kept dropping them. So anyway what I did was I won a record album a week for a year, 52 record albums JT: Wow MT: Yeah I' ; ve still got quite a few of those JT: Do ya? MT: Yeah JT: Oh MT: But, so then I let the boys go with me and this was already, I don' ; t know, Steve would' ; ve been already up like in maybe even lower high school or something, I can' ; t--Oh no, he was maybe a senior or junior because he was, that was another thing. This was out at the garment factory, he was probably early high school or you know, 8th grade or something like that. But he was already into music, so anyway I let them go with me and they could each one pick out so they had picked out some of them too, you know on that. But then, this other thing just telling me this, is it still recording? JT: Mhm MT: But you can take it off. But anyway this other thing, so I was down at the bank, and I listened to the radio station and you could call in and tell them your desk dancing song, which song would you get up and dance on your desk for. And I can' ; t remember, it was of Neil Diamonds, and I called in and I gave it and they chose mine, and I don' ; t know if you remember it or not, but anyway when I called and I was so excited that they used my voice for six months. They had me on there because I was so excited, Steve was in log doing the log and they had the radio on and they heard me too, so he knew it before I even got to tell him. But yeah, so then I had people come by and say, well because I was in that back window, " ; Well when are you gonna get up on that desk and dance?" ; It was funny, it was funny. But yeah it was a Neil Diamond, I can' ; t remember if it was Cherry Cherry or one of those, I don' ; t know, but it was a Neil Diamond song. But anyway, it was, yeah. And I won a shirt and a mug I think or something, but anyway. The things you do, you know, back in life you' ; ve done these things, it helps you get through life and everything, you know. JT: Well, thank you again for coming up here and doing this MT: You' ; re welcome JT: And we' ; ll end this now MT: Yeah you can [Indecipherable] JT: I probably will audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-21_Mary_Jane_Trigalet.xml OHP-2021-21_Mary_Jane_Trigalet.xml
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6400
Duration
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78:26
Interview Keyword
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garment factory
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Title
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Mary Jane Trigalet
Description
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In this 2021 interview, Mary Jane Trigalet shares her experience working for the garment factory in Bristow.
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OHP-2021-21
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2021-06-06
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audio
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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English
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Sound, oral history
garment factory
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/d1b80d6d5195142f47217526853cf084.jpg
8ac2714537977695b4070c30ae2f4f68
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Title
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Carole Ellis
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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5.4 November 12, 2020 OHP-2020-09 Carole Ellis OHP-2020-09 00:00 - 64:15 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Carole Ellis Georgia Smith MP3 1:|60(7)|92(1)|114(3)|154(15)|166(13)|183(15)|202(11)|220(3)|241(8)|263(12)|291(1)|318(7)|333(2)|358(7)|377(8)|409(1)|420(9)|441(1)|467(6)|477(9)|507(2)|527(3)|542(5)|568(2)|591(5)|603(4)|621(7)|641(3)|677(3)|704(8)|718(13)|728(6)|746(7)|754(11)|768(4)|782(1)|791(15)|813(11)|832(11)|842(6)|853(9)|862(14)|874(2)|880(3)|893(1)|906(3)|914(10)|925(2)|943(6)|955(16)|969(1)|982(6)|995(6)|1011(11)|1036(5)|1065(2)|1079(9)|1094(6)|1105(1)|1116(6)|1131(6)|1142(15)|1156(1)|1169(13) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Carole Greer Ellis.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carol Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carol? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carol Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carol Lynn Greer Baltimore, Maryland ; Bristow Historical Society ; Carol Greer Ellis ; Carol Lynn Greer ; Georgia Smith 77 Family History GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents’ names, and we’ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43’ or 44’ CE: Yes Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel ; Edward Wyatt ; Gale Lease Lawson ; Jerry Ellis ; Merle Leroy Greer https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25270948/edward-j-wyatt Edward Wyatt 220 Childhood GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Slyman lived across the street, Claudia Parish—Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? Billy Newton ; Claudia Parish ; Edison Elementary ; Peggy Newton ; Safeway ; Sherry Hill ; Silver plunge ; Washington Elementary ; Winky Dink ; Zorro 705 Grandparents GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we’re gonna switch to your grandparent’s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before—let me back up, what were your grandparent’s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don’t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my—they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother’s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother’s father, and he also was born in Maryland. Creek County ; Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel ; Earnest Greer ; Mounds, Oklahoma ; Thomas Charleston Brigle ; Willa Wyatt Greer 917 School GS: Where did you first attend school? We’re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? Bristow High School ; Bristow Junior High School ; Edison Elementary ; Gladys Holcombe ; Mrs. Foster ; New York City ; Oklahoma State University ; Peadee Smith ; University of Oklahoma ; Washington Elementary 1234 Church Life GS: I'm sure you did, I'm sure. Okay we're gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to First Baptist Church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is. GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you can't remember GS: No First Baptist Church ; Harvets Jewelry Store 1374 Medical Care GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt's doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay Dr. C. T. Kent ; Dr. King ; Kay James ; Laban ; Saint Francis Hospital ; Siscler 1633 Businesses GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You've mentioned some grocery stores, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I'll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Cafe, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows. GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Bushes American National Bank ; Bushes Cafe ; Dairy Queen ; Ford Hardware Store ; Hamburger King ; Harvest Jewelry ; Harvets Jewelry ; Ice House ; Kemp Drug ; MedalGold ; Mrs. Bushkin ; Oscars ; Patens ; Princes Theater ; Redbird ; Shamus ; Silvers ; Stanford Clothing Shop ; Strongs ; Tropes Service Station ; Walmer ; Woolworth 1800 Jobs and Art GS: Okay, that's pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn't have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I loved plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house. GS: I did not know that. National Academy ; New York City ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma State University ; The Natural Wire Draw ; Wanda Newton 2118 Oklahoma City Bombing GS: Now I know that you've used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City Bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Murrah building affect you personally? CE: I think that's two different questions so I'm gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There's fine art and there's commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it's a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future's gonna be. You never know that it's gonna be based on money or how you're gonna survive. You train yourself fin the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you're going to become, you don't have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that's happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- American Library Association ; Chris Watt ; FAA ; John Lennon ; Murrah Building ; Oklahoma City Bombing ; Oklahoma City Project ; Oklahoma Department of Libraries ; Parsons ; Woody Guthrie 2886 Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don't remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I'm very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I'm always getting back involved with it. Well after I'd been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that's right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I'd been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I'm not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela's back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I've written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- Fashion Institute ; Jimmy Baker ; New York ; Oklahoma Hall of Fame Ceremony ; Trace Kelly 3213 Politics GS: You did ; alright we're going to switch now. I don't think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we're gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that's a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it's better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn't mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone's else's point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. Korean War ; Martin Marietta ; Princeton ; World War II 3408 Lifetime Changes and Closing Thoughts GS: We're gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn't have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let's see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It's a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there's something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don't have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. COVID ; Gilcrease Museum In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Carole Ellis Other Persons: Date of Interview: November 12, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-09 at 00:00 to 64:15 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. The date is November the 12th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Carole Ellis at the museum depot who is going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, could you give me your full name Carole? CE: Hi Georgia GS: Hey CE: My full name for the Bristow area is Carole Greer Ellis. GS: Okay, what was your name at birth? CE: Carole Lynn Greer GS: Okay, and where were you born? CE: I was born in Baltimore, Maryland GS: Were you born in a hospital? CE: Yes, I was GS: Okay, and what was the date of your birth? CE: February 26, 1945. GS: Okay, right in the war almost, at the end of the war. What were your parents' ; names, and we' ; ll start with your mother first and her maiden name? CE: My mother was from Baltimore, Dorothy Elizabeth Rigel (ph), my father from Bristow, Merle Leroy Greer. GS: Where were your parents married? CE: I have no idea, my father was in the navy and he was stationed in Maryland at the time when he met my mother, and they were married in Baltimore. GS: Okay, you know when they were married? CE: About a year or so before I was born. GS: Okay, 43' ; or 44' ; CE: Yes GS: Okay, what brought them to Oklahoma? Probably that he was from here. CE: My father' ; s family was here from before statehood, his mother was born in a sod house in creek county and her dad, Edward Wyatt, created one of the first rural schools in creek county. GS: Oh awesome! I find out so much I didn' ; t know. How many children did your parents have? CE: Two GS: Okay and what were their names, or are their names? CE: Well myself and my sister Gale Lease Lawson (ph) GS: What did your father do for a living? CE: My father worked for the post office. GS: Okay, most of his life? CE: Yes, he did, he retired from the post office and so did his father. GS: Oh, what did your mother do? CE: My mother was a dental assistant, and did dental education in Bristow schools GS: I remember your mother and the kids would always come home and say " ; The tooth lady came to see us today" ; CE: That' ; s right, and of course she was involved in starting the historical society. GS: Yes, yes she was. What is your-- are you married? CE: No GS: Okay, have you been married? CE: Yes, I have GS: What was your spouse' ; s name? CE: Jerry GS: Jerry-- CE: Ellis GS: Ellis, okay. And what date was that, that you got married? CE: Oh gosh, it' ; s been so long ago. I don' ; t really remember. GS: Okay, did you divorce? CE: Yes, we did GS: Or was he-- Okay. Did you have any children? CE: No GS: Alright. Tell me about what your life was like at home when you were a young child. CE: Well, when I was a young child, I still have some childhood friends that are still here, Sherry Hill (ph), Sly man lived across the street, Claudia Parish--Parish family lived across the street, we lived near the football field. We played a lot on the football field after football games, we walked to Edison elementary school, growing up here my life was in nature a lot, you know, we walked around the town, went to the schools here, had close friends and their parents were friends with my parents. We were all involved in the churches and the schools and the swimming pool in the summer, and riding horses in fields, being out in nature. And art, always doing art of some kind. GS: Sounds like a delightful childhood. What kind of house did you grow up in? CE: First we were in something called veterans apartments, which I think were near the football field where I think people were returning from the war. Now my father was in World War II, and the Korean conflict he was called back, I remember that time because my mom was really sad and he left us before we were home. And then they started building a new housing edition on South Cedar street, and we watched a house being built there and moved there. GS: Okay, what are some of your favorite toys as a child? CE: My crayons GS: I knew you were gonna say that. Carole is quite the artist. What kind of role did your mother play in the home? CE: Well mother was--she baked a lot of things, she made the house look beautiful, but she was also a working woman. GS: And how was your laundry done? CE: In a washing machine, but I do remember going over to my grandmother Greer' ; s house and seeing a big sink in the basement and there was an old washing machine that had a wringer, you know those wringer things GS: Yes, but yours did not have a wringer CE: No it didn' ; t GS: Okay, what kind of cooking stove? CE: Gas GS: Gas cooking stove. What were some of your normal daily meals? CE: Cheerios in the morning, lunch at the elementary schools where the cooks made the best food whether there was Edison Elementary or when we moved across town to Washington Elementary, and those wonderful cinnamon rolls that they cooked in the morning and you smelled them in the school while you were doing your morning classes. And then while it' ; s close to thanksgiving time now so we would' ; ve gone to my grandmother' ; s house and there would' ; ve been a big turkey and lots of homemade dressing and pies cooling on the back porch and homemade rolls, lots of them because the family was big. My father had five brothers and sisters and everyone came to grandmother' ; s house with my cousins. And the big dining room table was laid out and then the kids tables were in the kitchen and in the summer time, homemade ice cream, and the freezers in the--the ice cream makers in the back yard where the kids sat on a palate while the adults churned the ice cream GS: Did they sit on top of the ice cream freezer? CE: Yes, you sat on top of the quilt of the ice cream--on top of the ice cream freezer. GS: Do you have any of the family recipes from your childhood that you still make? CE: No I don' ; t, but my grandmother made incredible mashed potatoes, which I tried to do myself with lots of butter. You have to have lots of butter in mashed potatoes GS: Oh yeah, that makes them much better. Where did you--where did your family shop for groceries? CE: Well, at the time I grew up main street had a lot of stores, among it were some small grocery stores on main street itself. And so I remember going to that store. Also at that time, grocery stores delivered sometimes. It' ; s funny now with the pandemic that we' ; re actually reverting back to the older ways of having groceries delivered to your house. GS: This is true CE: I think--I think Safeway was here then. GS: What were your daily chores? CE: Summer, mowing the lawn. Laundry when my mother was working and washing and drying the dishes, and washing the car in the summertime with my sister. GS: Oh, I always thought that was fun. Did your family ever employ any household help? CE: No. GS: What type of clothes did you wear? CE: My mother was always very good about keeping us up with the latest things, so it was nice. GS: So probably store bought clothes CE: Yes GS: And you already told me who some of your childhood friends were, what about some of your childhood games that you played? CE: Well the Newton' ; s were big friends too, Peggy and Billy Newton. Games, monopoly, I wasn' ; t a big game person, I was more of being an outdoor person GS: Well maybe outdoor games CE: Well, hide-and-seek in the summertime till it got dark then the neighborhood kids had to go inside, swimming of course in the summertime learning how to swim, and walking, going to day camp, day camp was just--first day camp for Bristow schools was started when I was growing up and we all went to day camp. GS: Was that at the--was the swimming pool called the Silver Plunge back then? CE: It was, and the day camp was in what were the--the city has the buildings now but those buildings-- GS: Were the camp CE: Where they used to have the county fair and county buildings. GS: What was your daily life like? Just to--a day in the life of Carol Ellis when you were a child, Carol Greer? CE: Well of course on Saturday when we got TV finally, you would watch some of your favorite shows like Zorro or go over to the neighbor' ; s house and watch Winky Dink, which had a Wink--Sherrin had a Winky Dink set which was something you bought from the TV people and you put this little screen up on your TV and Winky Dink would have adventures and you would have a little pencil that you would draw little bridges or-- GS: Oh how fun CE: You would interact with the story GS: And that was right up your ally. CE: Well that was fun GS: Yes, I' ; m sure you enjoyed that. Okay you just mentioned television, do you remember the first television you got? CE: I do, because it was a family decision. We had to decide whether we wanted to spend money on getting bicycles or television. GS: And television won out CE: It did GS: Did you have radio before that? CE: Yes GS: And did you all listen to it in the evenings much? CE: All the time GS: All the time, yeah. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to your grandparent' ; s now CE: Okay GS: Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives before--let me back up, what were your grandparent' ; s names? CE: I was a very fortunate child that I knew both sets of my grandparents and my great grandparents GS: That is, I don' ; t get many of those on the interviews CE: So my fathers parents were Earnest Greer (ph) and Willa Wyatt Greer (ph), and my--they, daddies father was from Mounds and of course my grandmother was born here in Creek county. My mother' ; s parents were Dorothy Elizabeth Troxel (ph), she was born in Maryland, and Thomas Charleston Brigle (ph), my mother' ; s father, and he also was born in Maryland. GS: Okay CE: Then my--I knew my great grandparents Brigle and my great grandparents Giden, all in Maryland. And then I knew my great grandmother Wyatt (ph) who was my grandmother Greers mom, and her sisters and all her sisters, she had three, lived to be older than 95 years old. GS: Wow CE: And my grandmother lived to be 100, and all of them had their wits about them GS: That is wonderful CE: That' ; s true. GS: Do you remember who the oldest person in your family was when you were a child? CE: My great grandmothers GS: And-- CE: Great--grandfather. GS: Okay, do you remember anything specifically them saying about life or anything? CE: I remember what they did GS: Ok CE: My great grandmother Giden and they had this wonderful two story house and they held us outside of Maryland and whenever we would visit in the summer times, the house number one was quiet. The only sound in the house was the ticking of the clock in the living room GS: Wow, mhm. CE: And the--there was a water pump on the back porch and a beautiful stream near the side of the house and she raised beautiful lilac bushes and flowers and she had banty chickens, so when we would visit for vacation time, she would cook--she was a great cook, and the thing I remember most was she would make pancakes after the dinner after we arrived and then she would put chicken gravy on the pancakes in the morning. GS: Oh my goodness CE: And that was very delicious. And my great grandfather Giden had lost his arm shooting off fireworks GS: Ohh CE: Just below the elbow, but he never let it interfere with how active he was in driving the car, or whatever he did. And he had a really wonderful personality, he would sit down on this old screen covered porch with us as grandchildren and we' ; d sit in these wonderful wicker rocking chairs and watch the trains go by. GS: What delightful memories I love those. CE: All my grandmothers were good cooks. GS: Ah, I think most grandmothers back then were good cooks CE: They were very good cooks GS: Where did you first attend school? We' ; re gonna jump now to. CE: I first attended school here in Bristow and I went to Catholic kindergarten. The catholic school had a kindergarten GS: Yes CE: And I went to kindergarten there. GS: Okay CE: Then Edison elementary, Washington elementary, Bristow Junior high school, Bristow high school graduated. GS: What year did you graduate? CE: 1963' ; then Oklahoma State University, graduated in English, started my masters in English and OSU, stopped that when I decided I didn' ; t think I knew enough to write a dissertation, and then I started working in the libraries in Oklahoma City, then I went to the university of Oklahoma and got my masters in Library Science. Completed that, then went to work at the state department of the libraries in Oklahoma City, and did public relations, and then I went to New York city and worked in Publishing and public relations and at that time, that' ; s when I got involved in the art schools in New York City, even though as a child I' ; d always done art and when actually I was here in Bristow, growing up there was an art teacher named Peadee Smith (ph) and Peedea gave art lessons in her house and a lot of us kids took art lessons with her. And then Gladys Holcombe (ph) was the art teacher in elementary school at Washington, and so she was very influential both Gladys and Peadee. GS: Did they, back then, switch like 6 months at Washington and 6 months at Edison? CE: Oh no GS: Like they do today? CE: Not at all, m-m. No you went there all the time, it was a neighborhood school. GS: Okay CE: You know ; this was a small town. You walked to school, wherever you lived on which side of town doesn' ; t matter whether you went to Edison or Washington, and you walked to school. And it was not kindergarten, but first grade through sixth grade. GS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations or sports? CE: Yes GS: In high school? CE: In high school. Pep club, speech and debate, future teachers of America, Latin club because we studied Latin, two years of Latin, and I was involved in everything. GS: That' ; s wonderful, that' ; s what kids need to do. Was the high school used for any other community purpose back then that you remember? CE: No GS: Did you take a sack lunch or did you eat in the cafeteria? CE: There was no cafeteria in the high school GS: Okay CE: And there was no cafeteria in the junior high school GS: Just the elementary? CE: Just the elementary schools, so junior high I remember I' ; m not sure quite what we did there. We' ; d walk home, I mean it was nothing to walk home, or we would take our lunches, they had lunch rooms where you--people who brought their lunch ate their lunch. And then whenever we were in high school we came down town and went to the cafes. GS: Do you remember anything in particular about the classroom, or were teachers strict back then? Easy going? CE: We had incredible, incredibly educated teachers. If you look in our yearbook, over half our teachers had master' ; s degrees at the time in their field GS: That' ; s wonderful CE: We had a library in all the schools with librarians. There was natural light in the classroom, the windows opened and stairways, you go up and down beautiful marble staircases in high school. Our teachers had command of what they taught and were legendary. I mean my father had teachers I had and my sister had those same teachers. Those teachers were here for twenty, thirty, forty years. You know, educating all of us. I remember Mrs. Fosters English classes, legendary, loving learning how to diagram census and having to watch Shakespeare on TV as part of our assignment for a week once those programs happened, and I really missed having art classes after elementary school, they didn' ; t think art was important. GS: They didn' ; t offer it as an elective back then? CE: Nothing, nothing at all. GS: That' ; s a shame. CE: So I started writing more and yeah I longed for it, I missed it a lot. GS: I' ; m sure you did, I' ; m sure. Okay we' ; re gonna switch to church life. You mentioned that you all went to the churches ; did you attend a certain church as a child? CE: We went to the First Baptist church GS: And is it the same building that is now at sixth and chestnut? CE: Yes, it is GS: Can you describe any of the services? CE: I think the services as a young kid you don' ; t remember GS: No CE: I think you remember, I remember the beautiful stained glass windows, having little pencils in the pews so I would draw pictures on the bulletins, I remember the wonderful choir music from the youth choirs and the adult choirs, I remember the wonderful dinners in the church basement, I remember the Sunday school teachers who might have you over to their house, who would be especially nurturing, I remember wonderful socials in the summer where you' ; d have delicious cakes that everybody made and homemade ice cream. So that' ; s what I remember about churches. GS: Were your parents involved in the church? CE: Yup, my parents were involved in everything GS: Did your mom sing in the choir? CE: No GS: Okay, or your dad? CE: No GS: Okay, what were the weddings like back then? CE: Well everyone went to Harvests (ph) Jewelry Store to register what kind of china and silverware pottery they wanted GS: Uh-huh CE: There were big wedding dressed and bridesmaids and grooms and--I think much too much was made of getting married after women got out of school or college, although at the same time they were beginning to gear us as women for professions, that wasn' ; t the overall message of the society at the time. That' ; s when it was really beginning to change. GS: Yes, the turbulent sixties. What was medical care like when you were a child? CE: My mother was diligent about taking us to the doctor to get, you know, a vaccinations or whenever we needed to go then my mother was always very medically inclined. GS: Do you remember any of the doctors or your family doctor? CE: Sure, my family doctor was Dr. C. T. Kent GS: Okay CE: And I remember his whole family, yes I remember him very well. I also remember, yeah I remember him very well and his family. GS: Did they make house calls or did you need to go to the office? CE: I also remember Doctor King, my great grandmother Wyatt' ; s doctor GS: Yes CE: Dr. King made house calls GS: Okay CE: And Dr. King made all kinds of house calls in the country and everything. In fact, I remember one time, I think it was [Indecipherable] someone would set, you know Doctor King was that kind of country doctor that you went out to see the patients no matter what, no matter what kind of weather or what--and he would always use one of the water towers as a guide to getting him back home. GS: Oh my goodness CE: You know the water towers weren' ; t always here GS: No CE: I don' ; t know the history of them, but they weren' ; t always GS: No CE: But I remember that story. Another great thing about living in a small town or any place were you are for a while, even if you leave then come back, which I did and gone for a long time, you learn stories that tied other stories ten years ago, twenty years ago, and it' ; s always an interweaving of the stories that we tell, which is really the great thing about having oral history GS: It is a wonderful thing about it, and I can see that in these interviews interweaving and looping, I love it. Did we have a hospital in Bristow back then? CE: I remember the old hospital which was behind where the homestead clinic is today, was on 8th street, the Siscler (ph), I think it was Siscler I think that was the name of it. I remember Kay James was born there cause my mom went to be with Laban (ph), my mother and Laban were good friends, I remember going to the doctor there and sitting in the waiting room there, and then of course the new hospital was born. And the new doctors building was built, which is where--Doctor Kent' ; s office is where the creek county health department is now. GS: Okay. Do you ever remember being hospitalized as a child? CE: When I was a senior in high school, that summer I started getting terrible pains in my belly, and then I would just double over almost, and they couldn' ; t--doctor Kent couldn' ; t find out what it was so my mother took me to Doctor King, the old doctor that my great grandmother had, and he was in an office upstairs on main street. I remember walking up the old stairs and he started thumping on my belly ' ; cause older doctors would thump on your body and they would look at your fingernails, they would examine your body carefully. And he would make an X where I said ' ; ouch' ; or something, and then he connected them. He did this with an old fountain pen. GS: Wow CE: And then about a week later, Saint Francis hospital had just been built, and he told my mom, my parents that he was sending me to a young surgeon and the young surgeon decided I needed to have surgery and they did surgery when I was--a week after I was football queen GS: Ohh CE: In high school. And at the time you were there almost two weeks GS: Oh my goodness, did they find out what it was? CE: Yes, appendicitis and a few other things GS: Well it' ; s wonderful they got it before that appendix burst CE: It is GS: My goodness. Do you remember any of the businesses downtown? You' ; ve mentioned some grocery store, there were several, do you remember any others? CE: Okay, I' ; ll start on the west side. Beginning at Edison elementary school, there was a MedalGold (ph) place that was in where Oscars lunch place used to be GS: At ninth and main CE: Bushes Café, where Mrs. Bushkin (ph) made great homemade everything, there was a locker where people who butchered their cattle or brought their chicken frosted--chickens and their cows GS: Just south of the last--Bushes CE: Bushes GS: Just south of Busches CE: No, no. Yeah, south. Then there was Strongs, and then there was the Stanford Clothing shop, and then let' ; s see, there was a Ford Hardware store on the corner, and then there was--and then I remember Woolworth (ph), ton of fun, Patens (ph) next to Woolworth, more fun for kids since it had toys and everything in there GS: Between seventh and eighth street CE: Right, and then the banks. American National bank, and then the small grocery store was kind of between sixth and seventh, between right up here near sixth street GS: Sixth and seventh then probably CE: And then Shamus' ; s GS: Yes CE: And let' ; s see, oh Redbird, the shoe store GS: Yes, yes CE: I mean that was between sixth and-- GS: I think CE: Fifth GS: Fifth, yes CE: Okay ; no, sixth and seventh GS: Okay CE: Yeah, okay. And then let' ; s see, Tropes Service Station (ph) which was out on the highway, so--Oh Harvest (ph) Jewelry was on the west side, Silvers was on the east side, Kemps drug store on the east side, the movie theaters on the east side, the Princes Theater and the Walmer (ph), The Hamburger King at the end of the corner GS: Did you ever eat there? CE: No, that was an adult place. GS: Oh okay CE: We ate at the Dairy Queen that first came near the railroad tracks and you got your first ice cream cone with the chocolate on top GS: Oh yes CE: Oh and then there was the Ice House GS: Yes CE: Across the railroad tracks, so that' ; s what I remember GS: Okay, that' ; s pretty good. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? CE: I only knew what I liked to do, I didn' ; t have an idea of like " ; I want to be this" ; . I know I loved to do art all the time, and I loved to write and I loved to be outside. In high school I thought about being a teacher, but I was really loving writing and debating and being in plays, they had--the speech teacher had to really rope me into debating. But once I did learn to do it, I liked it and I love plays, doing theater. And dance, oh yeah I forgot that part. When we were in the first and second grade, Wanda Newton had a dance studio in her house GS: I did not know that CE: With a bar and the mirrors and everything, so all--a lot, every little girl in my group of girls, we took ballet in town for several years. And we continued to dance our whole lives with Wanda, kind of like Jennifer is now. When we got older in high school, the future teachers we would put on dance skits and Wanda would choreograph them and we would have male dance partners. So we were dancing all that time too. GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful. How did you decide, well let me back up. What did after you became an adult, what were some of the jobs that you had? CE: When I was at Oklahoma State University when I was studying my masters, I was a teaching assistant, I taught freshman English for several years there. And then I went to Oklahoma City and I got a job being a public relations officer for the state department of [Indecipherable] GS: Now you' ; ve mentioned your love of art, how did you interweave art into your lifestyle? CE: Well at different times it came out. I think I didn' ; t really realize how missing it was in my life until I went to New York city after I left the department of libraries in Oklahoma City, I went to live in New York City and worked for a publishing company, children' ; s book publishing on 5th avenue. GS: Okay CE: I see it' ; s red GS: It' ; s still doing good CE: Okay, and so I was taking care of my neighbors plants and I came upon this book called The Natural Way to Draw, and it' ; s a classic still that' ; s used by the art students and I began drawing again [Indecipherable] things in that book, and then I met this artist in Central Park from Spain, a painter from Spain, and he--I really loved his paintings, the first time I was really in an artist' ; s studio, all these beautiful paintings he was doing and everything, and I wanted him to teach me how to paint. Also when I was studying here with Pete, when the first time I ever touched oil paint or paint I loved it, loved how it smelled, loved mixing it up, I loved everything ; brushes. So in New York, he said " ; I' ; m not gonna teach you how to paint until you have to learn the basics, the language of drawing, you have to go study anatomy and life drawing. If you can do that for a year, then you can come back and we' ; ll start painting" ; . So I went off to the National Academy and started studying anatomy and life drawing and it was very hard because I was in my 30s and my drawings looked like I was 5 years old. But after I was there, then I' ; m like " ; How am I gonna remember these big long names and skeleton and these people are drawing these beautiful figures and what am I doing?" ; . But after about a month, I started getting this very strong feeling that I was longing to know this, and then the final day of that summer class, we went and I said " ; You just got to do your best at your drawing" ; and all of a sudden, this figure popped up on my page and I' ; m like--and then another one and then another one and I' ; m like " ; Where did this come from? Did I make this?" ; and that' ; s when I got this real strong sense that art was something that I missed in my life a long time and I had studied English, my native language, for over twenty years and that I needed to study art for at least ten years to get myself a basic vocabulary of art and that' ; s when I really got the strong sense of truly being an artist and what it meant to feel that. GS: Now I know that you' ; ve used your artistic talents in the memorial of the Oklahoma City bombing, how did the Oklahoma City Bombing of the Mura building affect you personally? CE: I think that' ; s two different questions so I' ; m gonna start the art part first GS: Okay CE: You know ; art is very underrated in the study of--in the curriculum of schools. There' ; s fine art and there' ; s commercial art. Commercial art is whenever you can just get assignments for clients and it' ; s a business and you make money and you have techniques and you can do what they want, like building a kitchen cabinet. Fine art you never know what your future' ; s gonna be. You never know that it' ; s gonna be based on money or how you' ; re gonna survive. You train yourself in the basics of drawing and painting and anatomy and ceramics and sculpture and art history, and you nurture yourself and you become the kind of artist you' ; re going to become, you don' ; t have a name for it at the time. I gravitated to like a journalistic fine artist because I grew up in a lot of life here in Oklahoma and went to a lot of things in life. I loved to draw live events, I love to paint what I--live things, or if I remember something from something that' ; s happened in my life, it might stay with me so long that I need to express it artistically somehow. So when the Oklahoma City bombing happened-- GS: And what year was that? CE: The Oklahoma City Bombing happened on April 19th, 1995. I was in New York City at the time, I' ; d been living in New York since 1974. GS: What took you to Oklahoma City? CE: Not Oklahoma City GS: Or not Oklahoma City, New York City, sorry. CE: Well I had been living in Oklahoma City before I went to New York City GS: Okay CE: What took me to New York city, my life took me and youthfulness took me. There' ; s no rhyme or reason, my life needed to change and I' ; d been on this national public relations committee, I' ; d been a very young judge, I had put together public relations campaign for the Oklahoma Department of Libraries, and it won a national award, and part of winning a national award from the American Library Association was ten judges who' ; d won those awards for that year were brought to New York City in the summer for one week to judge all the public relations efforts of the American Library Association. GS: And you fell in love with it. CE: And not that way, no. GS: No? No? CE: That was a very nurturing experience, but something about the city itself drew me there in a time in my life when I needed a change in my life and that' ; s what I did. GS: Very good! Okay so you were in Oklahoma--I keep saying that, you were in New York City when the Murrah building was bombed CE: Yes, I was and a friend of mine, I' ; d gone to my local diner where I had breakfast in the mornings, and someone at the counter mentioned to me " ; Carole, a bomb went off in Oklahoma City at a federal building, what happened?" ; . Well I didn' ; t listen to television all the time or the news either. When I was in New York city, studying art and being part of the life, that was a lot of what I did. And so I said " ; I don' ; t know" ; . So when I got home, I said " ; Well maybe the FAA" ; , that' ; s the only federal building I knew of, I remembered and then I went home and a friend of mine called me, a friend of mine who' ; s a classical pianist and told me about the bombing and what had happened and that children were killed and he was very affected by it, and kids started playing music that composers had written for their children, piano composers. And it affected me, learning this. And well I couldn' ; t get through to Oklahoma on the phone GS: I' ; m sure CE: For over 24 hours, I couldn' ; t call my parents or anything. So I just started writing. I just started writing. And I wrote for 24 hours, I mean off and on, the next morning I went to the diner again, I had known then what happened. Then I walked home and that--when I walked home after all that 24 hours of writing, that' ; s when I sat down and wrote the poem, the 19th of--no it' ; s called the 20th of April 1995, cause it' ; s about the Oklahoma City Bombing, but I wrote it the next day. And wrote it almost in its entirety, straight out. And just--and it was as I wanted it to be and then there was kind of like, you know I did those drawings and they popped up on my page from that cabinet. The poem was similar, they often talk about--often times an artist feels like they' ; re a vehicle, you know, for something to come forth from you, and sometimes those things happen and it' ; s very special. And then--then I started, I' ; d taken the Oklahoma Flag with a small Oklahoma flag, I always thought the Oklahoma Flag was so beautiful. I had it on my wall in my apartment all the time I was there, and then I decided to make a series of drawings with the Oklahoma Flag to go along with the poem I' ; d written. So I took the Oklahoma flag and I rolled up an American flag I have on one of those wooden sticks and I stapled the Oklahoma flag to it and I carried it first to central part and I sat it down some few places trying to saw it. It didn' ; t seem quite right, but there was this shared knowledge of what had happened in Oklahoma City and kind of a quiet in the city, and people would see the Oklahoma flag walking by and they' ; d stop. They didn' ; t know, and they' ; d start talking about the bombing or something. And so I ended up rolling, taking the flag and finding the place in the tulip beds of fifth avenue, nope, yup, the tulip beds of fifth avenue. Is it fifth avenue? I' ; m not sure, square the streets, the streets are on both sides and the tulip beds go down the middle. And so I started doing a series of drawings of the flag in the tulip beds, and it was April, I continued to draw the flag for almost a year. That' ; s when I started working at the Oklahoma City Bombing and I called it the Oklahoma City Project because in studying, I' ; m more of a project person too. Like when John Lennon died, I was at Parsons at the time. I first started off with sketches at the Dakota building that night after he was killed. Then I went into Central Park for the memorial service and did a great big charcoal drawing of the crowd. Then I took the feeling of that crowd into making sculpture in the studio at Parsons ; clay sculpture, steel sculpture, doing interviews. I knew that I wanted a final project and it took a year before the final project came, which was a painting. Usually when I do a final project, it' ; s kind of like when I wrote that poem. You know, I' ; ve written pretty hard for twenty-four hours, couldn' ; t get what I wanted. Then the next morning I went for a walk and got away from it and came back and wrote the poem, same thing with the John Lennon project, I' ; d been working a year on different mediums and ways with John Lennon, I did John Lennon and the thing is, it stays with you, it doesn' ; t leave. GS: Right CE: Okay, and so I knew " ; Okay I wanna do a final painting" ; so I put everything away and one day I put all the work away for a couple of days to sort of ruminate and then I made this painting of my three muses walking around with a hole in them. Not gory, but and then on a peace symbol that was on the ground and sort of colors in the sky like a Van Gogh painting. GS: Yes CE: And that was the final, that was the final work. And so then you know it' ; s done, so that' ; s what fine art is like. You can' ; t predict it, you just have to be trained in it and trust yourself to know certain things, not give up. GS: So how did your talent there get applied and how did you become even more involved in the Murrah building bombing memorial? CE: Oh well that went on for years, and the way it went on was I continued to do the drawings, entered the design contest, came back to Oklahoma a number of times to visit the site for the design contest and whenever I' ; d come home and visit my family, I would go there because it was still inside working on it and there were different parts of it, it was pretty big. And then I went to the--took me a while before I could go the memorial itself, but I went to the dedication, I think I moved back to Oklahoma at the time just had moved back to Oklahoma. And I was always able to get it--I knew how to get press passes, so as an artist it' ; s interesting--it' ; s good to get a press pass if you can. You know, I did that often times with the Woody Guthrie thing, so I went to the dedication and sat with the CNN film crew under the bleachers and then when they had the first Oklahoma City memorial marathon, I went there I think when Rena was running in that. And local people from Bristow were running in it, Chris may have been one of them too, Chris Watt. And so it' ; s sort of--tried to take it to different places at different times, and it would get a certain way then stop, so I have all this material, huge [Indecipherable] material, and it just kind of came to a standstill after that. GS: And you' ; ve been good enough to share that material with us here at the museum. We were going to do a display of a lot of your material and the communities reaction to the Oklahoma City Bombing this last April on the 20th anniversary but COVID stopped that. Tell me about the-- CE: It did-- GS: And I beg your pardon because I don' ; t remember if it was a television thing, but tell me about that when you had the beautiful dress. CE: Oh the dress, the blue dress. Okay, well first every year at the anniversary of the bombing, I' ; m very aware of it so I will always do something just like the initiative for bringing it to you guys at the 20th anniversary was because of that normally when I do that. That time of year is I' ; m always getting back involved with it. Well after I' ; d been working on the project a year, after-- GS: And I need to make a correction, that was the 25th anniversary CE: Okay, that' ; s right GS: I said 20th but it was the 25th CE: It was, so--thanks for catching that Georgia. After I' ; d been working on the project for a year, I had all this drawing and work and [Indecipherable] and stuff and I said, alright, I was talking to a friend I said " ; I have all this work for you, I' ; m not sure what to do with it" ; and they said " ; Do you know anybody who has--is in television?" ; well actually because of the first Bristow all school reunion, I had met this man named Jimmy Baker who had graduated from Bristow High School right out here on near the bricks at the historical society, and I had met him and helped him find brick for his family, and we got into a conversation and he was a producer for ABC from Los Angela' ; s back here in Bristow to do the All School reunion, so I remembered him because he asked me to keep in touch with him. So I called him up and said " ; I have this material that I' ; ve written and drawn about the Oklahoma City Bombing, what do you suggest? Someone said if you know someone in television, talk to them about it" ; so I talked to him about it, and he said " ; Send me everything" ; , so I sent him--sent it to him a lot of it. And he called me shortly thereafter and said " ; Can you speak in front of an audience?" ; and I said yes and he said " ; Can you memorize your poem?" ; And I said yes-- GS: It was probably already memorized CE: [Indecipherable] I remember my old speech days at Bristow High School, so I can train to do those things. And so he said " ; Well I want you to be an ambassador for New York and come back to the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony in November of 1995" ; , November the magic month here we are. " ; And I want you and a guy from New York is gonna be honored [Indecipherable] and he' ; ll be coming too" ; so that' ; s how I got there, I was--he invited me to come in November of 1995 to present the poem and it was gonna be televised on [Indecipherable] it was, it was filmed. And there was a large audience, my parents were invited, it was a huge affair, the Oklahoma Hall of Fame ceremony is a big deal every year in Oklahoma. That and that--so a friend of mine in New York City who knew how to find beautiful dresses at in great places, she graduated from the fashion institute in New York, she found that dress. GS: Oh it was a beautiful dress CE: It' ; s a beautiful dress. And so I brought the dress, carried it on the plane, it was a [Indecipherable] plane. So when the [Indecipherable] crew learned what I was doing because there were, they were very touched by it all because one of those [Indecipherable] planes, something happened to it off the coast of New York before Oklahoma City, and so you know I had an all-expenses paid trip, a beautiful hotel-- GS: Wow CE: My sister sent beautiful flowers in my room, you know you go to the Oklahoma--we had rehearsals in the Oklahoma City auditorium, I had a dressing room with a big star on my door, I had an assistant, and we rehearsed. It was a big show and then I always remember my mom got me the--she got these blue rings to match and you know, Trace Kelly (ph) and Polly were there, people were in tuxes and everything. I remember right before it was time to go out on stage, I always think this is interesting with acting, you remember your lines, you remember your lines [Indecipherable] ready to go on the day and you get real nervous. I remember I looked at Jimmy when we were standing on stage, the stage lights were on and the ceremony was rolling, and I looked at him and said " ; I don' ; t know if I remember" ; . He looked straight me straight in the eyes and said " ; Yes you do, you' ; ll do just fine" ; and he pushed me right out there. In that beautiful blue dress. So that' ; s-- GS: Well I' ; ve seen your picture, you looked beautiful in that dress. CE: So that' ; s where it came from GS: You did ; alright we' ; re going to switch now. I don' ; t think--I think I know the answer to this one, but we' ; re gonna throw it out there anyway. Were your parents involved in politics? CE: You know, that' ; s a loaded question right now. My parents both voted, they were both registered republicans though my mother would vote more independently than my father. But we were up in, you know, it' ; s better to ask that question about civics I think. You grew up to be a citizen of your community, citizen of your country. You could have great arguments with someone on the other side of the fence, and you didn' ; t mud sling. GS: You still respected them CE: You did, and you actually learned that way. GS: Yeah CE: Because you learned to absorbed someone' ; s else' ; s point of view or see their side of things without becoming defensive and stonewalling yourself. GS: Right, right. What are your memories of World War II? CE: I wasn' ; t born. GS: That' ; s true, you were just born at the end of it. You said your father served in World War II? CE: He did GS: Do you have--what branch did he serve in? CE: My father was in the navy GS: Okay, was he on one of the carriers? CE: Daddy was on the Princeton GS: The Princeton, I forgot to turn off that telephone, let me do that real quick. CE: He was on an aircraft carrier. GS: The aircraft carrier, Princeton. CE: Right GS: Okay, let me just turn this off so we don' ; t have that again. Okay, and did he--how long did he serve in the navy? CE: Again I don' ; t know ; I think he went in I think two or three years GS: Okay, and you mentioned that he went to Korea then? CE: Yes, he was called back into Korea. GS: So he had gotten out of the service but then was called back in CE: He was GS: Okay, do you know what he did in the Korean war? CE: No GS: Okay. What was that like for you with your father gone off to war as a child? CE: It was scary because you' ; re a young child with an older sister and you don' ; t know, you see your mom being very very sad and your dad leaving, and then you--then we went to live with my mother' ; s parents in Texas, they moved to Texas because my grandfather Brigo worked for Martin Marietta (ph) and we lived with them for a while then we came back to Bristow. GS: We' ; re gonna switch to lifetime changes. Looking back over all the years, what would you consider to be the most important inventions? Doesn' ; t have to be just one, it can be several during your lifetime. CE: I remember my grandmother Greer (ph) who lived a good hundred was asked this question, and she said seeing the rover land on mars. GS: Oh my goodness CE: Or if it was mars, or the moon, one of them. Whichever. I would have to say that too, man landing on the moon, television, let' ; s see, oh forty-five records. (Laughing) GS: Those were wonderful. How is the world different now than when you were a child? CE: It' ; s a much more defensive world, a more splintered world. I find that quite sad even in this local community. I think this last election has really shown that to each group, and this whole--the last four years, but it was building up to that I think. I think when you believe your own beliefs so strongly that you become angry at other people, I think it builds walls, and there' ; s something about having fences not walls. Fences that you can see through or land that you can see through. You don' ; t have to go along with someone else, but you can be like that--civil to one another. GS: Right CE: And nurture your community as a whole so that children, especially so that children don' ; t see such a divided world and see the value of [Indecipherable] your ideas and your philosophies to create a better community for everyone. GS: I love that, I love that. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation, and how do you think they could be solved? CE: One of the biggest problems now is to think that whatever channel or little google thing we bring up--I' ; m not looking at this-- GS: No I' ; m just making sure everything' ; s still going well CE: Whatever social media channel or television channel or place we go to get our opinions, if that causes us to freeze up and hate other people, I think there' ; s something quite wrong with that. That' ; s very detrimental to the whole human being--the value that human beings have for nurturing one another, so that human beings grow and survive in a healthy way. GS: What do you think we could do to solve that? CE: I think we each have to take a step back and look at ourselves and see how are we doing that and how are we contributing to that, and to watch ourselves when we get caught up, because we all get caught up. We can step back, but we so easily get caught up again, I do. GS: Right CE: And so I have certain things I do every day or every couple of days that sort of I say keep your feet on the ground to help me do that with my own self. GS: That' ; s good. Is there anything else that you' ; d like to tell me today? CE: I' ; m very glad that everyone at the historical society worked so hard to get the grants in the first place, and to continue to find more grants to fund the oral history project, and for everyone who' ; s worked on it during the COVID time. And that I' ; m just really grateful for everybody' ; s efforts to add this wonderful element of oral history to our town. GS: Thank you very much. You' ; ve mentioned COVID, how has COVID affected you this year? CE: Dramatically, I' ; m not able to give tours at the Gilcrease museum, I' ; m not able to come here to the historical society and volunteer and sit in the board meetings, I' ; m not able to go among the people that I' ; m normally with and sit with them, not everybody wears a mask all the time, especially in our town and it' ; s kind of scary. My sister is in late stage cancer, and it affects whether or not I can go see her or not. GS: I understand CE: I' ; m in the older category of people, so I have to remember that and wear my mask and social distance and wash my hands all the time, and the hardest thing is not being able to see my sister when she was in rehab and not being able to visit people that need you in hospital and rehabs when they' ; re your family and you can' ; t go and nurture them. Not being able to hug people physically when everybody needs to be touched and feel love by hugging or at least seeing our families whenever we want to. Like even now, coming into the office here was emotional. I didn' ; t need to be emotional, but it was emotional because I' ; m able to sit here with you and have a conversation like we did before March-- GS: COVID CE: Of 2020 GS: And I have found that to be the case with several people I' ; ve interviewed. They have been so thankful for the companionship of someone else to talk to. It' ; s a sad time we' ; re going through. Well Carole, thank you so much for this CE: Thank you Georgia, this was a pleasure GS: I have learned so much and we appreciate you and everything you' ; ve done in our community so very much. CE: Well I appreciate you too and all that you all are doing to keep this going GS: Thank you Carole CE: Alright GS: Alright then. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml OHP-2020-09_Carole_Ellis.xml
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2900
Location
The location of the interview
Bristow, Oklahoma
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
64:15
Interview Keyword
This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are
included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration
between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the
OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the
“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
sod house, statehood, home life, school, hospital, stores, art, Oklahoma City bombing, First Baptist Chuch
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carole Ellis
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Carole Ellis talks about her experience growing up in Bristow. She discusses the different businesses located throughout the community and her passion for art.
Identifier
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OHP-2020-09
Date
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2020-11-12
Format
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audio
Creator
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
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Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
art
Bristow Public Schools
First Baptist Church
home life
hospital
Oklahoma City bombing
sod house
stores
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/d87d8e94a385cf5d2e4b563948624aa4.jpg
60ab497a49701c80b9cb390ea9e4ccbf
Dublin Core
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Title
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Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Leola Roebuck
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-22_Leola_Roebuck.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 March 31, 2021 OHP-2021-22 Leola Roebuck OHP-2021-22 0:00 - 26:26 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Leola Roebuck Debbie Blansett MP3 1:|65(4)|114(2)|153(9)|206(2)|239(3)|272(7)|307(2)|343(2)|392(2)|441(2)|487(9)|540(2)|575(3)|632(2)|676(4)|715(3)|754(5)|798(3)|848(3)|889(3)|922(2)|974(5)|1020(4)|1066(8)|1108(5)|1137(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Leola Roebuck.wav Other audio 0 Introduction DB: Alright let’s give this a try, I’ve got to read this. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is March 31st, 2021 and I am here with Leola Roebuck in her home and, say your name. KR: Kenneth DB: Kenneth Roebuck, her son. And— MR: Michelle Roebuck Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Debbie Blansett ; Kenneth Roebuck ; Leola Roebuck ; Michelle Roebuck 45 Moving to Bristow DB: Okay, does she remember—do you remember when you came to Bristow? KR: What year did you come to Bristow mom? LR: What? KR: What year did you move to Bristow? DB: Do you remember? KR: You know, from Boley. From Arkansas, you moved to Oklahoma from Arkansas, what year did you move to Bristow? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: You don’t remember what year? Boley, Oklahoma 135 Farm KR: Did you work outside the house? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable] DB: Oh did you have a big garden? LR: Yeah, I made a big garden DB: Did you grow tomatoes? LR: Tomatoes, yeah anything you could plant in a garden DB: Anything you could plant, you’d put in your garden LR: Uh-huh DB: And you just—did you make your own bread? LR: Did I make my own what? 250 Babysitting KR: And then when we moved here, you sued to babysit kids while we were in school, other kids. DB: You took care of other babies when your kids went to school? LR: Uh-huh DB: Uh-huh, for a long time? LR: Mhm DB: What did they call you? KR: What did the kids call you? LR: What? KR: What did the kids call you? The kids you kept when— DB: When you were babysitting, what did they call you? Did they call you Miss Leola? Did they call you grandma? 357 Family DB: And Melvin is your grandson? Melvin? He wanted us to come talk to you. KR: Melvin, Melvin. Melvin. LR: Who? KR: Melvin, Melvin wanted her to do this interview. Melvin, Mary Allen’s boy the daughter’s boy. LR: Oh DB: He said “You have to talk to my grandma”. You sure have a pretty hair thing on KR: [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Yeah your brother do stay with you Mary Allen ; Melvin 489 Church DB: Did you go to church? LR: Yeah I go to church DB: What church do you go to? LR: I go to Duffys Chapel KR: Duffy Chapel DB: I do know Duffys Chapel LR: My church DB: That’s your church? LR: Uh-huh Duffys Chapel ; Myrtle Alexander ; Reverend Parker 588 Food DB: I know they could make peach cobbler ; they were known for their peach cobbler. Can you make peach cobbler? Do you like peach cobbler? KR: Do you like peach cobbler momma? LR: Huh? KR: Do you like peach cobbler? LR: Yeah DB: Oh yeah KR: Her specialty is peach dumplings DB: Oh, peach dumplings KR: With the cinnamon in them DB: mm, It’s probably been a while since she’s got to make some. KR: Mhm, tell them about your homemade cake and the homemade ice and that white icing with that sweet milk, sugar, and butter, and vanilla flavouring. You remember that? Boley, Oklahoma ; Oklaha 802 Moving KR: You gonna tell her about Oklaha, what y’all used to do in Oklaha? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Oklaha, the town LR: Oh yeah, down in Oklaha, we stayed all around that little place DB: She what? MR: She stayed all around that little place DB: Oh alright KR: Oklaha, Boley City, all of it DB: Right [Indecipherable] LR: Muskogee Aunt Bea ; Boley City ; Muskogee ; Oklaha ; Uncle Buddy 952 Sewing DB: What did you like to do in Bristow? Did you go to the grocery store in Bristow? LR: Yeah, [Indecipherable] DB: Made quilts LR: Curtains DB: Curtains LR: Childrens clothes KR: Childrens clothes DB: Childrens clothes. So you had a sewing machine? KR: She done it by hand LR: I did it by hand DB: You did it by hand? KR: Everything by hand DB: You didn’t have a sewing machine? 1106 Lye Soap KR: Tell her--hey, tell Mrs. Blansett how you used to make the lye soap LR: What? KR: Tell Mrs. Blansett— DB: How you made soap KR: Soap LR: [Indecipherable] KR: The soap, the lye soap. You know the soap LR: Yeah KR: Tell her how you used to make that lye soap 1229 School KR: Tell her about you used to have to walk five miles to school, tell her about your school day. LR: More than five minutes [Indecipherable] KR: More than five—I know DB: More what? KR: More than five minutes, I know. You told me you used to walk about five miles in the snow and stuff. Tell them about how y’all used to go to school while— DB: Did you have to walk to school? Did you walk to school? LR: [Indecipherable] DB: And no bus? LR: Momma couldn't keep me out of the field KR: Huh? LR: Momma couldn’t keep me out of the field 1446 Conclusion DB: Alright, well miss Leola I’m so glad you talked to me today, I’m glad Kenneth and Michelle were here to help me understand KR: She said— LR: What? KR: She said thank you DB: Thank you LR: [Indecipherable] KR: She said thank you LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No she isn’t talking about [Indecipherable], she’s talking about she wants to thank you for letting her have her interview with you, talking with you today In this 2021 interview, Leola Roebuck shares her experience living in Bristow. She talks about her farm, babysitting, sewing, and cooking. Interviewer: Debbie Blansett Interviewee: Leola Roebuck Other Persons: Kenneth Roebuck, Michelle Roebuck Date of Interview: March 31st, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-22 at 00:00 to 26:26 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. DB: Alright let' ; s give this a try, I' ; ve got to read this. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is March 31st, 2021 and I am here with Leola Roebuck in her home and, say your name. KR: Kenneth DB: Kenneth Roebuck, her son. And-- MR: Michelle Roebuck DB: Her daughter-in law who is going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Okay, does she remember--do you remember when you came to Bristow? KR: What year did you come to Bristow mom? LR: What? KR: What year did you move to Bristow? DB: Do you remember? KR: You know, from Boley. From Arkansas, you moved to Oklahoma from Arkansas, what year did you move to Bristow? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: You don' ; t remember what year? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Okay what year was it? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? DB: She doesn' ; t know LR: I don' ; t remember KR: [Indecipherable] DB: 1920 maybe? KR: That' ; s when she was born DB: No that' ; s when she was born KR: Uh-huh. DB: Did you live in the country? LR: Uh-huh DB: Uh-huh, did you have a lot of kids? LR: Lot of kids KR: A lot of kids DB: Did you have a lot of babies? LR: I had a couple KR: You had--no you ain' ; t had, but you had ten kids, remember? DB: Ten kids? KR: Yeah LR: Uh-huh KR: Yeah she had ten of them DB: Ten, what did you--did you, were you just momma all the time? Did you work outside the house? LR: What? KR: Did you work outside the house? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable] DB: Oh did you have a big garden? LR: Yeah, I made a big garden DB: Did you grow tomatoes? LR: Tomatoes, yeah anything you could plant in a garden DB: Anything you could plant, you' ; d put in your garden LR: Uh-huh DB: And you just--did you make your own bread? LR: Did I make my own what? KR: Your bread, you know you made biscuits every morning. DB: Biscuits every morning? KR: Mom made biscuits, yeah. DB: Did you have chickens? No chickens? KR: Yeah she had chickens, tell them about the--tell them about where y' ; all used to do your hogs. Put them in the sweat house and salt them down and all of that. You remember when you had to farm when you stayed on the farm? LR: Nuh-uh KR: When you stayed on the farm LR: Oh yeah KR: You raised hogs and chickens and stuff DB: And you have to butcher them? That was pretty hard work LR: Yeah DB: Did you-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No she isn' ; t talking about [Indecipherable] she' ; s talking about how you raised the animals on the farm DB: Uh-huh, and you had pigs? KR: Pigs, you had hogs and stuff DB: hogs LR: Yeah I had hogs and chickens KR: Chickens DB: Chickens LR: Guineas KR: Guineas LR: Turkeys KR: Turkeys DB: Wow, that' ; s a farm KR: Y' ; all had a set of mules too, didn' ; t we? LR: Uh-huh DB: You had a set of what? KR: Mules DB: Oh, some mules. KR: That' ; s how they done all their farms LR: Yeah I [Indecipherable] KR: And then when we moved here, you used to babysit kids while we were in school, other kids. DB: You took care of other babies when your kids went to school? LR: Uh-huh DB: Uh-huh, for a long time? LR: Mhm DB: What did they call you? KR: What did the kids call you? LR: What? KR: What did the kids call you? The kids you kept when-- DB: When you were babysitting, what did they call you? Did they call you Miss Leola? Did they call you grandma? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: She' ; s wanting to know what did the kids call you? Did they call you grandma? I bet most of them called you Aunt Leola DB: Aunt Leola, how many did you keep? LR: How many did I keep? KR: Kids at one time, how many kids did you keep at one time? You know you babysat, how many kids did you babysit? That' ; s what she' ; s asking you LR: About four or five DB: Four or five, you are brave. What about this guy? Is he a pretty good guy? LR: Yeah, he' ; s pretty good KR: What? MR: She said yes, he' ; s pretty good DB: Does he take god care of you? LR: Awful good DB: Awful good KR: Yeah, but she' ; s out here-- DB: Michelle takes good care of you too? LR: Michelle KR: Michelle, Michelle my wife, your daughter-in-law Michelle LR: Oh yeah, uh-huh DB: And Melvin is your grandson? Melvin? He wanted us to come talk to you. KR: Melvin, Melvin. Melvin. LR: Who? KR: Melvin, Melvin wanted her to do this interview. Melvin, Mary Allen' ; s boy the daughter' ; s boy. LR: Oh DB: He said " ; You have to talk to my grandma" ; . You sure have a pretty hair thing on KR: [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Yeah your brother do stay with you MR: She says she favours Buddy KR: Yeah her brother DB: You sure are a pretty lady KR: Thank you, she said you' ; re pretty LR: Huh? KR: She said you' ; re a pretty lady. She said you' ; re a pretty lady LR: Yeah KR: You act surprised she ain' ; t said that, I know [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] My oldest daughter [Indecipherable] DB: Her oldest daughter maybe? KR: Yeah she passed, Melvin' ; s mom, she would' ; ve been--see we wrote down all her brothers. DB: Okay, okay, okay. [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No, them are papers she' ; s gotta fill out to put you in the magazine DB: How old are you? LR: Huh? DB: How old are you? LR: 101 DB: 101, did they give you 101 spankings? LR: No, I didn' ; t get spankings DB: No spankings for you LR: I didn' ; t want spankings DB: Don' ; t want any LR: [Inaudible] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No DB: Did you go to church? LR: Yeah I go to church DB: What church do you go to? LR: I go to Duffys Chapel KR: Duffy Chapel DB: I do know Duffys Chapel LR: My church DB: That' ; s your church? LR: Uh-huh KR: Yeah she was treasurer up there for 38 years DB: Now isn' ; t that where-- KR: [Indecipherable], we' ; re having Reverend Parker do it now DB: Okay, and-- KR: New Life, they changed it to New Life DB: Myrtle, Myrtle Alexander, that was her church, I mean she kept kids at our church but that was always her home church KR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. DB: Odell' ; s and Clydals momma KR: Yeah before they moved to the Methodist, yeah. DB: Do you remember Myrtle Alexander? Do you remember Myrtle? KR: She probably don' ; t DB: No KR: You remember Mrs. Alexander? You remember-- MR: Mrs. Alexander KR: You remember Mrs. Cross LR: Who? KR: Mrs. Cross LR: What? KR: Mrs. Cross, that would' ; ve been Myrtles mother. You remember Mrs. Cross, right? LR: Yeah KR: Okay now she wants to know, did you know her girl, daughter. LR: Yeah KR: Mrs. Myrtle LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No Mrs. Alexander LR: [Indecipherable] DB: Duffys Chapel, I haven' ; t heard that in a long time. LR: I remember [Indecipherable] KR: Yeah she knows, she [Indecipherable] DB: I' ; ve got all this stuff KR: She used to go to church there LR: No more DB: Did you sing in the-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable] DB: I know they could make peach cobbler ; they were known for their peach cobbler. Can you make peach cobbler? Do you like peach cobbler? KR: Do you like peach cobbler momma? LR: Huh? KR: Do you like peach cobbler? LR: Yeah DB: Oh yeah KR: Her specialty is peach dumplings DB: Oh, peach dumplings KR: With the cinnamon in them DB: mm, It' ; s probably been a while since she' ; s got to make some. KR: Mhm, tell them about your homemade cake and the homemade ice and that white icing with that sweet milk, sugar, and butter, and vanilla flavouring. You remember that? LR: Yeah, [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable] DB: It best is, sounds like a birthday cake KR: Yeah she' ; s the best LR: Yeah DB: It sounds good KR: That' ; s good eating DB: That' ; s good eating right there. KR: Hey, hey, hey, tell them about how you like the black eyed peas and cornbread LR: I love black eyed peas and cornbread DB: That' ; s what we have at our house KR: [Indecipherable] LR: Yeah I love black eyed peas and cornbread DB: And cornbread, black eyed peas, what do you like in your black eyed peas? LR: Yeah KR: She said what you like to put in them, what kind of meat you season them with LR: With bacon KR: Bacon DB: Bacon LR: Uh-huh KR: And what else we put in that? LR: Salt meat KR: Salt meat, and what else? Ham [Indecipherable], remember? DB: Ooh, I' ; ve got some of those in my freezer KR: We keep ham [Indecipherable] DB: I need to go pull one out and make some of those, I think my husband would like that LR: Yeah DB: He likes cornbread KR: Yeah she loves cornbread DB: Hard to cook it in a big skillet LR: Yeah KR: She' ; s-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: What? LR: At home DB: At home? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: She likes that, she eats cornbread, pulled pork, buttered milk DB: Oh. I don' ; t know what else she would feel like telling me about KR: Hey, tell them about--we moved to Bristow from Boley, right? LR: What? KR: From Boley, Boley Oklahoma? You know you stayed-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Did you stay down Boley and Oklaha LR: Yeah KR: Tell them about them towns LR: [Indecipherable] DB: Good what? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Yeah but she wants to know about the time when you lived in Oklaha and moved to Boley. Remember? DB: Well she was saying something straight out of the oven KR: Yeah about how they used to cook the biscuits DB: Ohh come straight out in the oven KR: Yeah LR: So good DB: So good LT: Yeah, really good DB: I' ; ve got her talking about food now KR: Yeah LR: The what? KR: The food, the food you like DB: My grandma always made angel food cake, she liked to make angel food cake for our birthday. LR: Yeah DB: Yeah LR: [Indecipherable] KR: You gonna tell her about Oklaha, what y' ; all used to do in Oklaha? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Oklaha, the town LR: Oh yeah, down in Oklaha, we stayed all around that little place DB: She what? MR: She stayed all around that little place DB: Oh alright KR: Oklaha, Boley City, all of it DB: Right [Indecipherable] LR: Muskogee KR: Muskogee and all them DB: Just moved from house to house? LR: Yeah we moved from house to house DB: Yeah LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Stayed all night [Indecipherable] DB: Uh-huh, with all those kids? LR: Huh? DB: With all your kids? Moved around with all those kids? LR: Yeah I think I had one or two MR: She said one or two DB: Oh KR: [Indecipherable] which one? Aunt Bea (ph) or Uncle Buddy(ph)? DB: Maybe both of them KR: Yeah, but [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Yeah he left-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: You only lost four of your siblings DB: She still has brothers and sisters living? KR: No, she' ; s the only one DB: She' ; s the last one? KR: She' ; s the only one, she' ; s talking about her kids. DB: Oh KR: Let me see that, lick your tongue out, you' ; ve got something on-- LR: Oh DB: It' ; s-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: I got it, okay DB: He got it KR: Okay, just tell them about something what you' ; ve done during life. Your life, I mean-- DB: Hundred and one years, that' ; s a long time. Did you have a birthday party? LR: Oh yeah KR: A small one DB: A little [Indecipherable]? KR: The [Indecipherable] DB: This COVID thing is bad LR: Yeah DB: Did you all get your shots and everything? KR: Yes DB: I have too. Well you look nice and snug, you look good and wrapped up, you' ; re not cold. KR: She stays cold, she don' ; t like cold, that blood thing. Tell them a little more about your life mama. MR: What' ; d you used to do LR: Huh? MR: What did you used to do? DB: What did you like to do in Bristow? Did you go to the grocery store in Bristow? LR: Yeah, [Indecipherable] DB: Made quilts LR: Curtains DB: Curtains LR: Childrens clothes KR: Childrens clothes DB: Childrens clothes. So you had a sewing machine? KR: She done it by hand LR: I did it by hand DB: You did it by hand? KR: Everything by hand DB: You didn' ; t have a sewing machine? MR: How' ; d you sew it? Did you sew it with your hands? LR: What? MR: Your clothes and quilts? LR: Yeah I did it at home, [Indecipherable] DB: Uh-huh. Where did you get your material for your quilts? Where did the material come from? LR: The material MT: [Indecipherable]. Did you get your material from old clothes and stuff? DB: Feed sacks? Flower sacks? Did you have a frame for your quilts? Did you have a quilting frame? LR: Uh-huh DB: Was it big? LR: Uh-huh DB: Yeah, that' ; s what my grandmother used, one of those. And she did hers by hand LR: Yeah DB: Oh there' ; s one of your quilts, Kenneth has one of your quilts KR: Pizza man, look here mom, mom. Mom, ain' ; t this yours? DB: Did you make that? LR: Make what? DB: Did you make this quilt? LR: Yeah DB: That' ; s beautiful LR: Made out of scraps DB: Made out of scraps LR: Uh-huh DB: Where' ; d you get the scraps? LR: [Indecipherable] MR: From where? Where' ; d you get your scraps from? Old clothes? LR: Yeah I did KR: Where did--how did you make your quilts? What' ; d you make the quilt--what material did you make the quilt out of? LR: The what? KR: The quilt, where' ; d you get the material to make the quilts? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: I said where did you get the material to make the quilts LR: At the store KR: At the stores-- DB: At the stores KR: Some of it at the general store, lot of it was old jeans and she' ; d cut that into pieces and she done everything by hand. Tell them, hey, tell Mrs. Blansett how you used to make the lye soap LR: What? KR: Tell Mrs. Blansett-- DB: How you made soap KR: Soap LR: [Indecipherable] KR: The soap, the lye soap. You know the soap LR: Yeah KR: Tell her how you used to make that LR: Well, you put so many cans of lye DB: So many cans of lye LR: So much grease KR: So much grease LR: Water KR: Water DB: Water LR: [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable], ok. And then you [Indecipherable] right? DB: And you cook it? LR: Huh? DB: You cooked it? LR: You had to cook it [Indecipherable] KR: In my storage house, I' ; ve got a piece she made DB: In a big pot? LR: Yeah DB: Did it get you clean? LR: Sometimes DB: Sometimes. Did you use it for your clothes? Did you use it to wash? KR: The soap LR: [Indecipherable] and mop DB: And mop. So you worked pretty hard LR: Huh? DB: You worked pretty hard. KR: You worked pretty hard when you were growing up. You worked hard, did you work hard? LR: Uh-huh DB: Oh yes KR: I still got a piece of her lye soap DB: Oh my. Did you--when did you get electricity? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No when did you--when did y' ; all have lights? How old was you when y' ; all had electricity in your house? DB: When you got lights in the house? KR: You remember how old you were? DB: Much later KR: Huh? About how old were you? Tell her about you used to have to walk five miles to school, tell her about your school day. LR: More than five minutes [Indecipherable] KR: More than five--I know DB: More what? KR: More than five minutes, I know. You told me you used to walk about five miles in the snow and stuff. Tell them about how y' ; all used to go to school while-- DB: Did you have to walk to school? Did you walk to school? LR: [Indecipherable] DB: And no bus? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Huh? LR: Momma couldn' ; t keep me out of the field DB: Momma something KR: Yeah your momma couldn' ; t keep out of the field DB: Oh, did you have a horse? LR: Yeah, I had a horse and I had a plow DB: Horse and a plow, did you have a buggy? LR: Yeah, I had a buggy KR: Did you have a buggy to ride in? Did the horse pull a buggy? LR: Yeah I-- KR: A wagon or a buggy, did you have a wagon or a buggy? LR: Yeah, a wagon DB: A wagon KR: Wagon LR: And a buggy too KR: And a buggy too DB: And a buggy too LR: Momma gave me a buggy too KR: Your momma did DB: Momma used the buggy LR: Bouncing up and down the road KR: Bouncing up and down the road DB: Yes. Was it hard to plow? LR: I had a plow DB: You had a plow, was it hard? LR: No DB: No? Not with the horse? LR: Working the peas KR: Working the peas DB: Working the peas, you had a lot of peas? LR: We had a lot of [Indecipherable] DB: Were they black eyed peas? LR: [Indecipherable] KR: [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Raise and eat [indecipherable] trade and sell off the farm too DB: Oh, they would sell their things? KR: They would sell, you know, what they didn' ; t keep they would sell. They raised enough to make money off of. That' ; s what she used to tell us all the time. When I was a kid, [Indecipherable] used to make the whole yard a garden DB: Make the whole yard a garden KR: Yeah LR: Huh? DB: He said the whole yard was a garden LR: Who? KR: The field, you know like the field? LR: Yeah KR: The whole field, y' ; all would plow the whole field up wouldn' ; t you? LR: Oh yeah [Indecipherable] KR: She would help her sister DB: Did you go to school? LR: I did if could DB: How long did you go to school? LR: I did go to school KR: Yeah she said how long did you go LR: [Indecipherable] I' ; d go to school KR: It would change when you wasn' ; t working you would go, but you went up the the 8th grade, 7th grade DB: To 8th grade KR: I think she took the 8th grade LR: Don' ; t tell that boy about [Indecipherable] KR: I Won' ; t tell him DB: What did she said KR: Don' ; t tell that boy about [Indecipherable]. Hey, what year--you went up to the 8th grade, didn' ; t you? Your 8th grade, [Indecipherable] in 8th grade? LR: Yeah KR: Yeah DB: Did you make good grades? LR: Yeah DB: Yes, did you like to read? LR: I like to read KR: She loves reading the bible, well used to LR: Everything I went to do, I got it KR: Everything she went to do she got it DB: Alright, well miss Leola I' ; m so glad you talked to me today, I' ; m glad Kenneth and Michelle were here to help me understand KR: She said-- LR: What? KR: She said thank you DB: Thank you LR: [Indecipherable] KR: She said thank you LR: [Indecipherable] KR: No she isn' ; t talking about [Indecipherable], she' ; s talking about she wants to thank you for letting her have her interview with you, talking with you today DB: Thank you for letting me talk to you. Will you let me take your picture? KR: She wants-- LR: [Indecipherable] KR: Mom she wants to take a picture now, you gonna let her take a picture of you? DB: Yes LR: Huh? KR: You gonna let her take a picture? She wants to take a picture DB: You' ; re so pretty KR: Let' ; s fix your little bonnet up here a little bit LR: [Indecipherable] It' ; s not no bonnet KR: Okay I know it ain' ; t a bonnet but I just said that, okay. DB: Oh, she looks so pretty. You want to hand me my purse over there? They keep you looking mighty fine. KR: Say thank you MR: She said you look good, you gonna smile? KR: Smile so she can take a picture. Look at the phone, she' ; s gonna take a picture of you DB: I get the camera first, alrighty. One, two, wait let me try this one. One, two, three KR: Cheese DB: I think that' ; s wonderful, 101 years' ; old KR: Yes DB: Miss Leola MR: Her mommas gonna go down to the corner, she said DB: Now she' ; s laughing MR: She said her mommas gonna go down to the corner and catch a man DB: I think they' ; re not gonna let you do that. You' ; re gonna go catch a man? KR: [Indecipherable] LR: [Indecipherable] audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-22_Leola_Roebuck.xml OHP-2021-22_Leola_Roebuck.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
5400
Location
The location of the interview
Bristow, Oklahoma
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
26:26
Interview Keyword
This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are
included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration
between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the
OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the
“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
home life, farming, Duffy Chapel
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leola Roebuck
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2021 interview, Leola Roebuck shares her experience living in Bristow. She talks about her farm, babysitting, sewing, and cooking.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-2021-22
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-03-31
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound, oral history
Duffy Chapel
farming
home life
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/4f1f21ba9c5ba66a11e0c0f31647cdda.jpg
7a8922c8acb5ce6e9d409a2e30e0fd72
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Tammy Levin
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
JoNell Jones
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-20_Jones,_JoNell.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 April 6th, 2021 OHP-2021-20 JoNell Jones OHP-2021-20 0:00-60:27 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. JoNell Jones Tammy Levin MP3 1:|65(2)|117(4)|161(2)|222(8)|273(14)|325(2)|354(2)|392(7)|433(3)|488(2)|514(2)|565(2)|589(3)|628(16)|668(2)|698(5)|759(4)|789(7)|831(11)|864(3)|908(13)|943(7)|972(1)|1009(11)|1043(3)|1074(4)|1106(11)|1132(10)|1170(9)|1203(12)|1235(15)|1264(4)|1309(9)|1362(5)|1399(2)|1450(8)|1477(2)|1513(5)|1539(2)|1563(8)|1592(2)|1623(14)|1644(11)|1679(3)|1698(4)|1723(6)|1756(2)|1797(2)|1829(2)|1868(4)|1922(2)|1962(14)|1993(4)|2021(2)|2038(17)|2057(4)|2080(3)|2130(3)|2166(11)|2190(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Jonell Jones.mp3 Other audio 4 Introduction TL: Okay, are you ready? JJ: I guess so TL: Okay. This is Tammy Levin with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing historical oral history project. The date is April 6th, 2021, I’m sitting here with— JJ: JoNell Jones TL: At Bristows train depot, who’s going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now give me your full name. JJ: JoNell Sears was my maiden name Bristow Historical Society ; JoNell Jones ; JoNell Sears ; Tammy Levin 56 Family TL: Alright let’s begin. Okay, what was your full name at birth? JJ: JoNell Jones TL: Okay, and where was you born? JJ: I was born in Tulsa but I was brought right back here TL: Okay JJ: I’ve been here all my life TL: Okay, okay. And was you born—were you born in, at the home or in a hospital? JJ: In the hospital TL: In the hospital, do you remember which hospital? JJ: Well it was Morningside then but it’s Hillcrest now Eileen Lee Sears ; James Sears ; William Edgar 220 Childhood TL: Okay? Tell me about your life and what it was like at home when you was younger. Okay, can you tell me about some of your early memories of being younger here in Bristow? JJ: In this office TL: We’re gonna really work your memory today JJ: One of my big memories is we lived out on Jefferson TL: On Jefferson? JJ: And it was still a dirt street TL: Okay JJ: And I was playing out in front of my house in the dirt and mother was not very happy about it because she just knew that some car was gonna come by and run me over Bishops ; Glen Acres ; Roberts ; Treadle Sewing Machine 871 Grandparents TL: Okay? Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives? JJ: Not really, my daddies parents lived in Bristow, they came before statehood. TL: Oh wow JJ: And they came out on a covered wagon, of course that’s the only way they can get here TL: Right JJ: They had five boys TL: Okay JJ: I think, and then they lost two little girls at a young age TL: Okay JJ: But they lived over on the corner of second chestnut their whole life TL: Second and chestnut, okay. Okay and their names? JJ: Sears, Ira and Eula (ph) Eula Sears ; Ira Sears ; Joe Lee ; Tana Lee 1104 School TL: That’s wonderful. Okay now we’re gonna go to your school memories JJ: Okay TL: Okay, where did you first attend school? JJ: Washington school TL: Washington school JJ: First grade, we didn’t have kindergarten then. TL: Oh really? Okay. Who was the first teacher that you had? JJ: Her name was Christian TL: Christian, okay. JJ: Hazel, Hazel Christian TL: Hazel Christian, okay. JJ: Actually, she and my mother went to college together Catherine Cane ; Donna Doke ; Hazel Christian ; Jean Sampson ; Washington Elementary 1422 Church TL: Okay, okay. Okay now we’re gonna go to church life. Did your family attend church when you were a child? JJ: Yes TL: Okay, and which church? JJ: First Christian TL: First Christian JJ: Disciples of Christ TL: Okay, and do you still attend that church? JJ: Yes TL: Okay. Can you describe the Sunday services when you were a child? JJ: Pretty much like they are now, we had Sunday school early and I always went and then we had church service, you know had a choir. First Christian Church 1660 Medical Care TL: What was medical care like when you were a child? JJ: Doctor King made house calls TL: Doctor King, I’ve heard that name a time or two JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, uh-huh. JJ: They took care of me, he didn’t deliver me because mother went to Tulsa, but he took care of me all my life, and my mother and my dad and my grandparents. TL: So why did your mom go to Tulsa? Was there a—? JJ: I think her family had had hard deliveries TL: Okay JJ: So she just went in TL: Just to be safe? JJ: Mhm Doctor King 1747 Town Life TL: Okay now we’re going to town life. JJ: Okay TL: Okay, what are your recollections of Bristow in your early childhood? How about main street? Any special stores that you really enjoyed? JJ: I loved Anthonys and I loved Pennys TL: Okay JJ: And then Miss Stanford had a shop that—for children TL: Okay JJ: That was fun TL: Okay, okay. So about those stores, was it just because you went shopping there a lot or was there—? Anthonys ; Lions Cafe ; Miss Stanford ; Pennys ; Wade Hardware 1927 Holiday Events TL: Okay, what were the main holiday events held in town? JJ: Halloween, Christmas, I don’t remember any others. TL: How did they celebrate Halloween? JJ: Well they just opened up main street and let everybody run up and down it TL: Okay, did you dress up as a child to go trick-or-treating? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Yeah? What was your favourite costume? JJ: Well I think I was a witch TL: Yeah, yeah. And what about July 4th, did they celebrate July 4th? JJ: Yes TL: Yeah? JJ: They did, had fireworks and— 1989 Early Adulthood TL: Uh-huh, good. Okay, early adulthood. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? JJ: I wanted to be a teacher but I never did that TL: Yeah, why not? JJ: I just did not like college and quit TL: Where did you go to college at? JJ: OSU TL: OSU? JJ: [Indecipherable] TL: Okay, what was your first job? JJ: Oh, I worked at a bakery Bunny Baker ; Meta Hill 2234 Travel TL: Okay, now it’s asking about travel. How did you travel to Oklahoma City or Tulsa in the early? JJ: Well usually by car, we always had a car TL: Okay JJ: During the war we used to trade a lot TL: Did you, and when did you get married? What was the date? JJ: July the 27th, 1961. TL: 1961. Okay, when you took the train, what are your memories of this depot here? JJ: It looks pretty much—I was trying to think, what was the ticket office in here? TL: I’m assuming where it’s at now, but I don’t know. 2412 Segregation and Racism TL: Right. Okay we’re gonna be talking about racism about the blacks and Indians here in town, okay? Was the town segregated? JJ: Yes TL: Yes, what are your memories of it? The segregation? JJ: Segregation. I remember the Indians really more than the blacks TL: Okay JJ: And they would just sit on the sidewalks TL: Okay, on main street? JJ: On main street TL: Okay JJ: And the blacks had their own town, they didn’t really come into the main part of Bristow very much that I recall 2721 The Great Depression TL: Okay, the great depression. Do you have any memories of the great depression? JJ: Just that there wasn’t any money TL: No money, yeah. Hard times. How did it affect your home life? JJ: It really didn’t because my daddy worked in the post office and always had a job TL: Okay, yeah. JJ: But I had friends that were very, very poor. There just was nothing. They would love to have something to eat. TL: Right. And so your dad didn’t lose his job during that time? JJ: No 2784 Amphitheater TL: Do you remember the work being done to construct the lake or the park? JJ: I remember work in the park when they were building the amphitheatre. TL: Do you? Okay, what do you remember of that? JJ: I was trying to think who was president then. She came, the president’s wife came. TL: Eleanor Roosevelt? JJ: Was it Eleanor? It could’ve been TL: She came and she dedicated that JJ: Okay, she came and dedicated the amphitheatre TL: Uh-huh, did you guys go out there? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Was it pretty exciting? JJ: Yup Eleanor Roosevelt 3014 Politics TL: Was your family politically involved? JJ: Not really TL: No, okay. Did any of your family members ever run for office? JJ: Well I had a great uncle that did TL: Yeah, here in Bristow? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, and who was that? JJ: Cal Foster TL: Okay, and do you remember what office? JJ: Probably county commissioner, I don’t really know TL: Okay, okay. Did he win? JJ: I think he did? 3076 WWII TL: Okay, World War II. What are your memories of WWII? JJ: Well, I had bunches of uncles in the army and the navy and the marines TL: Uh-huh JJ: I had one uncle killed in Italy TL: Okay, and who was that? JJ: Daddies youngest brother TL: And his name? JJ: Milton TL: Milton? JJ: Sears TL: Milton Sears (ph), okay Milton Sears ; The Bristow Record ; Tribune 3251 Most Important Invention TL: So what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? JJ: Oh dear. I suppose one that affected most people is the television TL: Okay, and why do you say that? JJ: It’s just a better way to get the news. [Indecipherable] TL: Right JJ: I remember sitting in front of the little radio listening to it TL: Right, while everyone gathered around it. How is the world different now than when you were a child? JJ: So many ways. Travel, it’s so much easier now than it was then. But I miss, I really miss the slow pace of my childhood 3319 Biggest Problems that Face Our Nation TL: As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? JJ: I’m not smart enough to solve them, but I think the race problem is the biggest one we have. I don’t know why people can’t accept you for who you are. And then there’s so many more, there’s drugs and there’s all this stuff, but I really think race is the big one. TL: And then I was just gonna ask you, how are your feelings about COVID? How do you think it’s changed how we are doing things? JJ: I think they have overplayed it ; I’ve always thought it was a political thing. TL: Okay. JJ: I don’t pay attention to it 3389 Closing Thoughts TL: Yeah. Okay, your—Linda said that you kind of have some information about that grand piano back there, you kind of knew a little bit about the history about it? JJ: Oh, I don’t really. I’ll tell you who probably could give you some is George Foster TL: George Foster, okay. JJ: Because that looks exactly like the piano that his grandmother had TL: Okay, good deal JJ: She had it in her house TL: Okay. I think we’re good. Is there anything else that you would like to tell us about? About your life or? JJ: I don’t really think George Foster ; William Edgar In this 2021 interview, JoNell Jones shares her experience growing up in the Bristow area. She discusses family, town life, and travel. Interviewer: Tammy Levin Interviewee: JoNell Jones Other Persons: Date of Interview: April 6th, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-20 00:00 -- 60:27 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. TL: Okay, are you ready? JJ: I guess so TL: Okay. This is Tammy Levin with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing historical oral history project. The date is April 6th, 2021, I' ; m sitting here with-- JJ: JoNell Jones TL: At Bristows train depot, who' ; s going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now give me your full name. JJ: JoNell Sears was my maiden name TL: Okay JJ: Jones TL: Alright let' ; s begin. Okay, what was your full name at birth? JJ: JoNell Jones TL: Okay, and where was you born? JJ: I was born in Tulsa but I was brought right back here TL: Okay JJ: I' ; ve been here all my life TL: Okay, okay. And was you born--were you born in, at the home or in a hospital? JJ: In the hospital TL: In the hospital, do you remember which hospital? JJ: Well it was Morningside then but it' ; s Hillcrest now TL: Okay great. And your parents' ; names? JJ: James and Eileen Lee Sears (ph) TL: Okay, so your maiden name was Sears? JJ: Mhm TL: And how do you spell that? JJ: S. E. A. R. S. TL: Okay great. And when were your parents married? JJ: Let' ; s see here, about 27' ; I think TL: 27' ; , 1927? JJ: 1927 TL: Okay, do you remember where they were married? JJ: Here in Bristow TL: Oh here in Bristow, okay. How many children did they have? JJ: Me TL: How many children did your parents have? JJ: Me TL: Just you? Oh goodness JJ: Just me, I was enough TL: Man, they stopped with perfection, right? JJ: yeah, yeah. TL: Yes. What did your father do? JJ: He worked in the post office TL: In the post office? JJ: He was a mail carrier TL: Okay JJ: But he had hurt his back when he was an [Indecipherable] for years from the time I was 11 TL: Okay JJ: And he died when I was 22 so he was, it was pretty much bed fast that whole period of time TL: When he worked in the post office, did he work just in the post office or was he a mail carrier? JJ: Well he started out as a mail carrier TL: Okay JJ: But that' ; s where he hurt this back, and then he moved into the window TL: Okay, okay. And what about your mother, what did she do? JJ: She was a homemaker TL: Okay JJ: A then after daddy died, she had to go to work and she worked at the Community bank as a secretary. TL: Okay, okay good deal. Okay, and what' ; s your spouse' ; s name? JJ: William Edgar TL: Okay, and what was the date of your marriage? JJ: July the 27th, 1961 TL: 1961 okay, and how many children did you have? JJ: Okay, both of us together had four TL: Okay JJ: He had a little girl and I had a little girl, it was a match TL: Ooh! JJ: And then we had two TL: Okay, okay. And their names? JJ: Julia TL: Julia? JJ: Becky TL: Becky JJ: Laura TL: Laura JJ: And Bill TL: And Bill, okay. Okay so what was--he had two you say? JJ: He had one TL: No he had one and you had one JJ: Uh-huh TL: Okay, okay. Okay can you--we' ; re going to go now to your early childhood. JJ: Okay TL: Okay? Tell me about your life and what it was like at home when you was younger. Okay, can you tell me about some of your early memories of being younger here in Bristow? JJ: In this office TL: We' ; re gonna really work your memory today JJ: One of my big memories is we lived out on Jefferson TL: On Jefferson? JJ: And it was still a dirt street TL: Okay JJ: And I was playing out in front of my house in the dirt and mother was not very happy about it because she just knew that some car was gonna come by and run me over TL: Oh, uh-huh. She was worried about that, yeah yeah. JJ: And we just lived alone in a two-bedroom house and at that time it was right on the edge of town TL: Uh-huh JJ: Daddy had built it for her when they got married TL: Okay, is the house still there? JJ: Yes TL: Is it? JJ: Yes TL: Okay do you drive by it to look at it? JJ: Occasionally TL: Do ya? JJ: Occasionally, yeah TL: Uh-huh, does it still look the same? JJ: No TL: No, okay. JJ: They' ; ve changed it TL: Okay, what was the address of that house, do you-- JJ: 512 TL: 512 Jefferson? JJ: 512 east Jefferson TL: East Jefferson, okay. 512 East Jefferson. JJ: Isn' ; t that funny? TL: That you still remember it, yeah. What about some of the neighborhood kids? Do you remember any of the neighborhood kids? JJ: There was one little boy that lived next door but he was really old, her name was Ward (ph) TL: Okay JJ: There weren' ; t any kids out there TL: Okay, okay. What about--this is kind of an odd question, but what kind of bed did you sleep in? JJ: I had a regular full size bed TL: Oh okay, what about your favorite toy as a child? JJ: Oh I had a little doll that was named Sabra (ph). But I think I still have her. TL: Do you? JJ: Yeah TL: Wow, what kind of doll was she? Was she a porcelain? JJ: Just a baby doll TL: Was it a porcelain type doll, porcelain head, china head? JJ: I' ; m sure it had a China or Porcelain head because it was way before plastic. TL: Right, uh-huh. Was it a blond or a brunette? JJ: It didn' ; t have--it didn' ; t have hair, it had just-- TL: It had the painted head? JJ: Yeah TL: Painted hair? JJ: She was kind of blonde TL: Blonde? Okay JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, okay what kind of role did your mother play in the home? JJ: She was the homemaker TL: Until she had to go to work JJ: Yeah TL: Okay JJ: She didn' ; t go to work until my daddy couldn' ; t work anymore. TL: How was the laundry done? JJ: We had a black woman that came and did it TL: Okay, mhm. Okay, what about the cooking? Did she do the cooking as well? JJ: Mother did all the cooking TL: Did she do the cooking? JJ: She was a fantastic cook TL: Was she? What was your favorite meal that she fixed? JJ: Oh dear, fried chicken. TL: Fried chicken, oh that sounds good! Did you have mashed potatoes and gravy with that fried chicken? JJ: Oh of course. TL: That sounds wonderful, what kind of stove? JJ: She had a [Indecipherable] which was a really big stove for that little house TL: Uh-huh JJ: She won it at a drawing at the movies TL: Oh wow JJ: Isn' ; t that fun? TL: At the theater downtown? JJ: At the Princes (ph) TL: At the Princes JJ: Yeah TL: Did you hear that we just got some movie theater seats from the Princes movie theater? JJ: No TL: Yup, I just--they were put out on the street curb and so I went and grabbed them really quick, so how about that? So this lady that did your laundry, is that all she did was for you? She just did the laundry for you or did she help out some? JJ: As far as I remember, I don' ; t think--mother was an immaculate housekeeper, I doubt if she let anybody come in. TL: Okay, and what were some of the normal daily meals that you had? JJ: We had three meals a day, we had breakfast and lunch and dinner. TL: Okay, okay. JJ: Supper, not dinner. TL: Yeah, that' ; s what I grew up with supper too. Are there any family recipes from your childhood that you still make? JJ: Oh yes TL: Yeah? And what--can you tell me about some of them? JJ: Well let' ; s see, I still make mothers chocolate pie TL: Do you? JJ: And she made a coconut cake that I still make occasionally TL: Do ya? Do your kids still make some of those recipes? JJ: No TL: No? JJ: They don' ; t cook, my children. TL: Uh-huh, do they still ask for those two recipes? JJ: No because they usually have them when they come TL: Okay. Where did you shop for groceries? JJ: What was her name? Shopped at Bishops, and we shopped at Roberts TL: Okay, and were those neighborhood grocery stores? JJ: They were on main street TL: On main street, okay. Were there other neighborhood grocery stores though? JJ: Yes, there was one or about two that was out on chestnut, I can' ; t even think of the name of it. TL: Okay JJ: [Inaudible] TL: And did you have any daily chores that you had to do when you were little? JJ: Had to make my bed TL: You had to make your bed, uh-huh. JJ: And help with the dishes TL: Okay, okay. And I' ; m guessing you probably didn' ; t have any livestock if you lived in town JJ: No we did TL: Oh you did, did you? JJ: My grandfather had a little farm just about four or five blocks from us east over where Glen Acres (ph), or not Glen Acres. Anyway, we always had a cow and chickens down there. TL: Okay JJ: A big garden TL: Okay, and what did you grow in your garden? JJ: Everything TL: Did you have a favorite? JJ: Green beans TL: Green beans? JJ: Yeah TL: Did you help snap them? JJ: Oh of course! TL: Yeah? Did you eat more than you--? JJ: No, I was not a very good eater TL: Okay, okay uh-huh. Okay did you do your own butchering if you had cattle or did--? JJ: They butchered hogs TL: Okay JJ: We never butchered cattle, but they butchered hogs. TL: Okay, now did you use the cattle, the cow for the milk then? JJ: Milk TL: Milk? Okay. And how did you store your food? JJ: How did we store? TL: Uh-huh JJ: We had a--I think we had an icebox when I was a real little girl and as soon as we got a refrigerator, daddy bought one. TL: Okay, so you had the old fashion icebox? JJ: Yeah with the ice in the top of it TL: So where did you get your ice from? JJ: They delivered it, the ice company down on 1st street, or--down where [Indecipherable] is now, about that area, there was a big ice plant. TL: Okay. Okay this question is did your family employ household help? So yes JJ: Some TL: And did you have anyone else besides the lady that helped you with the laundry? JJ: No TL: No, just her okay. And it' ; s asking how much were they paid? I' ; m sure you probably don' ; t-- JJ: I have no idea TL: Yeah JJ: I want to say a dollar a day TL: Okay JJ: But that' ; s strictly a guess TL: That' ; s an--right, right. Okay and what kind of clothes did you wear? JJ: Whatever mother made. TL: Oh did she make your clothes? JJ: Yeah TJ: Okay JJ: She was a really good seamstress TJ: Yeah JJ: She was a really good homemaker, I mean she--she did all that, yeah. TL: Right, the sewing machine, I' ; m guessing a treadle sewing machine? JJ: Mhm TL: Uh-huh? Do you still have that or is that long gone? JJ: No it' ; s long gone. TL: Uh-huh, did you like to sew? JJ: Not really TL: No, that wasn' ; t your thing? JJ: I did a lot of sewing when my girls were growing up TL: Uh-huh JJ: But I didn' ; t really like it TL: Okay, did you have shoes to wear all year round JJ: Yes TL: Did you? Okay. And it' ; s asking who did you play with most of the time? JJ: Oh I had, I had two or three real good friends that we played. They were not neighbors but they were close, close enough to get to. TL: Did you have cousins to play with? JJ: I had cousins to play with but they didn' ; t live here TL: Okay, okay. What were some of the common childhood games that you played? JJ: Red rover, I' ; m sure we played Ring around the rosy when I was little bitty TL: Right JJ: Jacks TL: Right, uh-uh. How about some of your favorite songs that you sang as a child? JJ: I don' ; t even remember them TL: Okay. It' ; s asking about your fathers' ; work and that was we already discussed that. What was his role in the house? Did he help in the garden? JJ: He--I' ; m sure he did anything that needed to be done but he was a [Indecipherable] for years. TL: Okay JJ: So--my memories of him are in bed pretty much TL: So how did he get hurt on his job? JJ: Slipped on the ice TL: Oh, okay. JJ: Went down to crippling arthritis. TL: Oh okay, you said he died when he was 22? JJ: I was 22 TL: 22 JJ: Daddy was 44 TL: Aw so he died very young JJ: But when he died, he could use his right elbow and his right hand. TL: [Indecipherable]. Okay how about do you remember the first time you heard a radio? JJ: We always had a radio TL: Did you? JJ: Yup TL: Okay, saw television? JJ: I was in college. The people of Bristow bought my dad a television when they first came out TL: Uh-huh JJ: Because he was bed fast and they put it in his room TL: Aww JJ: And we had a--it was one of the first televisions in town TL: Wow, do you remember what show was playing the first time? JJ: No, I was in college so I really didn' ; t pay much attention to it TL: Okay, I bet he was very appreciative of that JJ: Yeah he was, he was. TL: That' ; s neat, how neat. Okay now we' ; re gonna go to your grandparents JJ: Okay TL: Okay? Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives? JJ: Not really, my daddies parents lived in Bristow, they came before statehood. TL: Oh wow JJ: And they came out on a covered wagon, of course that' ; s the only way they can get here TL: Right JJ: They had five boys TL: Okay JJ: I think, and then they lost two little girls at a young age TL: Okay JJ: But they lived over on the corner of second chestnut their whole life TL: Second and chestnut, okay. Okay and their names? JJ: Sears, Ira and Eula (ph) TL: Okay, okay. So they would' ; ve came here before statehood, or they wanted to--probably one of the first settlers here then. JJ: Yes, my oldest, my dads oldest brother was the first white child born in Bristow TL: Oh okay, that' ; s interesting JJ: Grandma talks about the Indians, they had a--they called them stomp grounds TL: Uh-huh JJ: It' ; s where they did their dances TL: Right JJ: And they walked down chestnut right by the house to the stomp grounds and she said they just would go in in streams down there to their dances TL: So did she say where the stomp dances were located? JJ: Well south of town, I' ; m not sure where TL: South of town, okay. That had to be a very interesting-- JJ: Yup, yup. TL: Do you have memories of your grandparents, the Sears, then? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Okay JJ: I was a big girl when they died TL: Okay JJ: Was in high school TL: Oh okay, so you got to spend a lot of time with them then JJ: Yeah I did TL: Okay good, grandparents are pretty special JJ: Yes TL: Yes, very special. JJ: My mother' ; s parents lived here too TL: Okay and their names? JJ: Lee (ph) TL: Lee JJ: Joe and Tana TL: Okay JJ: And they had moved at that time, but they lived in Tulsa TL: Okay JJ: So TL: When did they move out of Bristow? JJ: I guess after mother got out of high school in 27' ; TL: Okay JJ: Her older sister and her husband opened a big feed store in Tulsa TL: Okay JJ: And grandad went up, he had a little ice stock right there on the corner from it TL: Okay JJ: But he was in the feed store with uncle Frank, so. TL: Okay, okay [Inaudible]. Who was the oldest person in your family you can remember from when you were a child? The oldest person that you can remember from childhood. JJ: My great grandmother Roberts was 92 TL: 92, okay. And who--from what side of the family? JJ: My mother' ; s side TL: Your mother' ; s side, okay. JJ: My grandmother Foster was--I had two great grandparents--I had four grandparents and two great grandparents alive while I was growing up and they were all real well liked. I mean, nobody died young. TL: That' ; s great, yeah! JJ: Yeah TL: And how old are you? JJ: 91 TL: 91, and happy belated birthday! Happy birthday! JJ: Thank you TL: Yes! So what do you remember about them? They were pretty active? JJ: Yes, granddad was the first fire chief in Bristow, granddad Sear TL: Oh okay JJ: And, yeah. TL: You have a lot of history here in Bristow JJ: Yeah, they came and settled and we stayed so-- TL: They must' ; ve liked it JJ: Who didn' ; t? TL: That' ; s wonderful. Okay now we' ; re gonna go to your school memories JJ: Okay TL: Okay, where did you first attend school? JJ: Washington school TL: Washington school JJ: First grade, we didn' ; t have kindergarten then. TL: Oh really? Okay. Who was the first teacher that you had? JJ: Her name was Christian TL: Christian, okay. JJ: Hazel, Hazel Christian TL: Hazel Christian, okay. JJ: Actually, she and my mother went to college together TL: Really? That' ; s neat. What hours were the school held? JJ: I think 9 to 4 TL: 9 to 4, okay. So what age did you start school then if you didn' ; t go to kindergarten? JJ: Six, which was first grade. TL: Okay. Did you walk? JJ: Yes TL: Yeah, how long? JJ: It was about five blocks TL: Okay JJ: I had two neighbor girls that were older than I was, and I walked with them. TL: Okay, do you remember how many children attended your class? Was it a large class? JJ: I think they were pretty large classes, I' ; d say 25, 30. TL: And what year was this? JJ: 1936 TL: 1936, okay. Do you remember what year you graduated? I' ; m sure you do. JJ: 48' ; TL: 1948, okay. Who was your best friend? Let' ; s start--okay, who was your best friend in first grade, do you remember that? JJ: Catherine Cane (ph) TL: Catherine Cane, okay. And how about when you-- JJ: And Donna Doke (ph), [Indecipherable] TL: Oh okay, okay. JJ: Yeah, they were my best friends TL: Okay, and did they remain your best friends throughout school? JJ: Pretty much TL: Aw that' ; s pretty special JJ: They' ; re all gone now, but-- TL: Oh, right. And I' ; m assuming, you said you went to college so you completed? JJ: No I didn' ; t complete it, I went two and a half years TL: Okay, okay. What kind of building was the school in? Grade school JJ: Actually they just tore it-- TL: Washington JJ: Washington? Yeah, it was that very first build that they had, it was--it was new, they had [Indecipherable] TL: Yeah, I got to walk through it before they tore it down so--and then you went to the high school here? JJ: Mhm TL: Yeah, and that was Bristow High School? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, were you a member of any of the clubs or organizations in high school? JJ: I was a member of everything TL: Yeah? Like what? JJ: Well I was in the band, I was a cheerleader, and I was president or vice president of the senior class. TL: Of the senior? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, like choir? Was it the same as choir or was it-- JJ: I didn' ; t sing in choir, I don' ; t sing TL: Okay, so what was that? What' ; s the singer class then? JJ: Senior [Indecipherable], senior class TL: Senior class, okay okay. Uh-huh, good. JJ: I did everything, I liked it. TL: Well good. Was the school building used for any other community purposes? JJ: Not that I know of. TL: What types of food did your mother pack in your lunch if she packed your lunch? JJ: She didn' ; t pack my lunch, I went home for lunch TL: Oh did you, okay. Was she home for lunch with you or--? JJ: Most of the time TL: Okay JJ: My daddy was always there TL: Okay, so did she have lunch ready for you or did you fix lunch together or how did you spend your lunch? JJ: She probably had gotten it ready before she went to work. TL: Okay, and then did you eat lunch with your dad since he was home there? JJ: Mhm TL: Did you? Okay, so that' ; s nice. Okay what do you remember about your classroom? JJ: Well blackboards and the musty smell that it had TL: Okay, okay. JJ: All the books that were in there TL: Do you have any favorite teacher from grade school? JJ: Not really TL: No, how about high school? JJ: Jean Sampson (ph) was my--he was the science teacher and he was my favorite teacher TL: And why was he your favorite teacher? What about him? JJ: I don' ; t know, he was just funny and he was--it was good, yeah. [Background noise] TL: Did you-- [Background noise] TL: Did you have a favorite subject in high school? JJ: Yeah, biology TL: Did you, so you' ; re a science person? JJ: No TL: Oh no JJ: I just like biology TL: Okay, okay. Okay now we' ; re gonna go to church life. Did your family attend church when you were a child? JJ: Yes TL: Okay, and which church? JJ: First Christian TL: First Christian JJ: Disciples of Christ TL: Okay, and do you still attend that church? JJ: Yes TL: Okay. Can you describe the Sunday services when you were a child? JJ: Pretty much like they are now, we had Sunday school early and I always went and then we had church service, you know had a choir. TL: Okay, do you remember any songs? Anything special? Any favourite songs during that time? JJ: Not really TL: Can you describe the holiday events at church? JJ: Oh, it' ; s been--not really. We always had a church for the--when I was growing up, we had a big youth group, we had a lot of kids. And we had church, we did church Sunday once or twice a year, us youth group and, oh we had parties and did all the things that you' ; d probably do TL: Did your friends attend the same church? JJ: No TL: No JJ: Well Donna did TL: Donna, okay. Sometimes that makes it a little bit--what were your Christmas' ; like as a child? JJ: We always went to my grandmothers TL: Which grandmother? JJ: Grandmother Lee TL: Okay, okay JJ: And, oh they were big deals. TL: Cousins there? JJ: Cousins and aunts and uncles and-- TL: Uh-huh, did you usually go for Christmas eve or Christmas day? JJ: Oh we went Christmas eve and spent the night and had a big Christmas breakfast TL: Aw, special meals? JJ: Yup TL: Yup, all of that? JJ: All of that TL: Did Santa-- JJ: Santa came TL: Yeah, good. Was there a special food that brought back memories or that was always served? JJ: We always had turkey, I think. It could' ; ve been chicken and I didn' ; t know it TL: Right JJ: We always had ham. For Christmas breakfast we always had ham TL: Oh, okay mhm. And what about the Christmas tree? Was there anything special about the Christmas tree or just-- JJ: No it just was loaded with stuff I' ; d made and stuff my cousins have made TL: It was just spending time with family, right? JJ: Yeah TL: Yeah, good deal. Did your mother sing in the choir? Did you sing in the choir? JJ: No TL: No, what was your parents' ; involvement in the church? JJ: Let' ; s see, daddy taught a Sunday school class, mother taught a Sunday school class. Daddy was an elder TL: Okay JJ: Back before women could be elders TL: Right JJ: I' ; m an elder now, I was the first woman elder in our church TL: Really? JJ: Yeah TL: Congratulations, and when did that happen? JJ: Oh let' ; s see ; it was probably--it' ; s been a long time. Let' ; s see, probably in the 60' ; s TL: Oh okay JJ: When they first started letting women be active in--and our church, our disciples church was one of the first that did I think TL: That' ; s neat. Okay what were weddings like in your church? Anything special? Nothing? Okay. Okay now we' ; re going to medical care. JJ: Okay TL: What was medical care like when you were a child? JJ: Doctor King made house calls TL: Doctor King, I' ; ve heard that name a time or two JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, uh-huh. JJ: They took care of me, he didn' ; t deliver me because mother went to Tulsa, but he took care of me all my life, and my mother and my dad and my grandparents. TL: So why did your mom go to Tulsa? Was there a--? JJ: I think her family had had hard deliveries TL: Okay JJ: So she just went in TL: Just to be safe? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay. It' ; s asking here, did women generally give birth here or at home and most likely they did but your mom just wanted to be-- JJ: My aunty had lost a baby at home birth, so. TL: Yeah, yeah. What were some of your mother' ; s home remedies? JJ: She' ; d just called Doctor King TL: Okay, were you ever hospitalized? JJ: When I had my tonsils out TL: Okay, and here in Bristow? JJ: Yeah TL: Yeah? Which hospital? JJ: Well it was up on 8th street, the old one they tore down TL: Okay, I' ; m not from Bristow so was that--? JJ: Okay, it was the Sisler TL: Sisler, that' ; s what I was thinking, okay. Do you have any special memories of that time? Did you get lots of ice cream? JJ: Yes, I remember a sore throat TL: Sore throat JJ: Yeah TL: Nothing- okay now we' ; re going to town life. JJ: Okay TL: Okay, what are your recollections of Bristow in your early childhood? How about main street? Any special stores that you really enjoyed? JJ: I loved Anthonys and I loved Pennys TL: Okay JJ: And then Miss Stanford had a shop that--for children TL: Okay JJ: That was fun TL: Okay, okay. So about those stores, was it just because you went shopping there a lot or was there--? JJ: Oh we didn' ; t shop very much, but when we shopped that' ; s where we went TL: That' ; s where you went, okay. How did you travel when you went to Tulsa? Did you travel by car ; did you travel by train? JJ: We travelled by car, but I travelled by train a lot. When I was having my teeth straightened, I had to go to Tulsa every three weeks and I rode the train up there and back every three weeks. TL: And did you go by yourself or did you go with your mom? JJ: No I went by myself, I was in high school TL: Oh okay, so you were older, okay. JJ: Actually there were about four of us going, so TL: Oh, okay JJ: We all went to the same orthodontist TL: Okay, who were some of the biggest businesses in town? JJ: Hm, Wade Hardware, there were a lot of businesses. Of course Anthonys and Pennys, and Miss Stanford, [Indecipherable] I can' ; t remember. TL: What kind of shops did your mother frequent a lot? The ones that you mentioned earlier? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay. What about restaurants, did you eat out very often? JJ: Not very often TL: Okay JJ: If we did, we ate--when I was in high school we ate at Lions Café TL: Okay, okay. JJ: I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard of that one TL: I have, and I hear about an ice cream shop a lot too, but I' ; m not for sure about the time period though, so. How did people dress? Like during, how about high school days? Was there a particular-- JJ: Dress code? TL: Yeah JJ: We wore dresses TL: Dresses, okay JJ: And they had to be a certain length TL: Okay, and what length was that? JJ: They had to come at least below your knee TL: Below your knee, okay. Did you have a favourite dress, or a skirt? Did you like to wear skirts or dresses? JJ: I wore both TL: Both, okay. It' ; s asking did you mostly buy your clothes or did you make them? JJ: Mother made most of my clothes TL: Okay, what were the main holiday events held in town? JJ: Halloween, Christmas, I don' ; t remember any others. TL: How did they celebrate Halloween? JJ: Well they just opened up main street and let everybody run up and down it TL: Okay, did you dress up as a child to go trick-or-treating? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Yeah? What was your favourite costume? JJ: Well I think I was a witch TL: Yeah, yeah. And what about July 4th, did they celebrate July 4th? JJ: Yes TL: Yeah? JJ: They did, had fireworks and-- TL: Did they do that out on at the lake or--? JJ: They did it at the lake and then of course the country club they always had a golf--as I got older, they always had a golf tournament that we played in. TL: Okay JJ: And usually a lunch TL: Okay, what' ; s your favourite holiday to celebrate? JJ: Christmas TL: Christmas? Yeah. JJ: That' ; s the day we all get together TL: Uh-huh, good. Okay, early adulthood. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? JJ: I wanted to be a teacher but I never did that TL: Yeah, why not? JJ: I just did not like college and quit TL: Where did you go to college at? JJ: OSU TL: OSU? JJ: [Indecipherable] TL: Okay, what was your first job? JJ: Oh, I worked at a bakery TL: At a bakery, oh that could be very dangerous JJ: It was, but I was thin then TL: Right, and which bakery? JJ: I don' ; t even remember the name of it, these people came in and put a bakery in TL: And that--was that here in Bristow? JJ: Yeah, it was between 7th and 8th down in that area TL: Oh goodness JJ: And it was really nice bakery, they were here for several years TL: Uh-huh JJ: And I worked it a lot through high school TL: Did you sample a lot? JJ: Oh of course TL: Oh what was your favourite? JJ: They made the best donuts you ever ate, make you hungry TL: Yeah, I love bakeries. JJ: I do too TL: Pastries are my downfall JJ: You don' ; t look like you had a downfall TL: Oh yes, what kind of jobs have you held in the past? JJ: Well let' ; s see, I' ; ve worked in the bank, I worked at the gas company, [Indecipherable] Natural TL: Okay JJ: I never worked much. As soon as I got married, I never worked after that. TL: Yes, you worked very hard JJ: I worked, I raised four kids. TL: You worked very hard, yes. JJ: I didn' ; t get paid for it. Well I did, ultimately. TL: You did, yeah. Okay, you didn' ; t work in the military. When did you meet your spouse? So Ed is your spouse JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, when did you meet him? JJ: Met him in 1960 TL: Okay, and where? JJ: I was working for Bill [Indecipherable], and he worked--he had an office across the street. TL: Okay, and where was that at? JJ: By the post office TL: Okay JJ: On 6th street TL: Okay, okay. JJ: And we just happened to meet. Actually I went to him, he was--I had a really bad back and I went over there to see if he could fix it. TL: So he was a doctor here in town then? JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, so that' ; s where his practice was at? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, okay. And what was your first impression? JJ: How shy he was TL: Aw, really? JJ: Yeah TL: Uh-huh JJ: He was extremely shy until you knew him TL: Okay, how long had he been practicing here in town then? JJ: Not too long, maybe a year TL: Okay, and where did he come from? JJ: Oh he came from basically Seminole (ph) TL: Okay JJ: Well he first came from Arkansas, did we run out your tape? TL: Nope, I just heard a squeaky noise. Seminole? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, can you tell me about your engagement? JJ: We weren' ; t really engaged very long, we just started dating then got married TL: Okay, how long did you date then? Just a short time? JJ: Probably three or four months TL: Okay, okay. Can you tell me about your wedding? JJ: Yes, it was in my mother' ; s living room that was just mother and my step-father and me. And Bunny Baker. TL: Bunny Baker, really? JJ: I had worked with her downtown TL: Okay, okay. How about that. So after you got married, did you live here in Bristow then? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, and did you work after you got married? Stayed home? JJ: No, this doesn' ; t get head shakes, does it? TL: Huh? JJ: I said that doesn' ; t pick up headshakes, does it? TL: No it doesn' ; t pick up headshakes, no. Where did you live after you got married then? JJ: Oh, we lived out on Meta Hill (ph) when we first got married, and then we moved ; we bought our house on sixth street. TL: Okay JJ: The corner of sixth and pecan, yeah. TL: Okay JJ: We outgrew our first house TL: Did you? JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, now it' ; s asking about travel. How did you travel to Oklahoma City or Tulsa in the early? JJ: Well usually by car, we always had a car TL: Okay JJ: During the war we used to trade a lot TL: Did you, and when did you get married? What was the date? JJ: July the 27th, 1961. TL: 1961. Okay, when you took the train, what are your memories of this depot here? JJ: It looks pretty much--I was trying to think, what was the ticket office in here? TL: I' ; m assuming where it' ; s at now, but I don' ; t know. JJ: But I do know it had two waiting rooms TL: Okay two waiting rooms, okay. JJ: And there were lots of trains through town, there were about six a day TL: Six a day, okay. JJ: Maybe more. It looks pretty much like it does now. TL: Okay, and now you were talking about the waiting rooms, can you tell me a little bit about the waiting rooms? JJ: They just had lots of chairs, they had a black--one for the blacks and one for the whites. TL: Okay now where was the black waiting room and the white waiting room? JJ: The black one was over at the side TL: Okay, back there? JJ: Yeah TL: Okay JJ: I may be wrong on that, but that' ; s what I can recall TL: Okay. And okay, looks like we' ; re going back. Okay we' ; re going to route 66 now, you remember route 66? JJ: Oh yes TL: Okay, do you remember route 66 being built? This would' ; ve been, this would' ; ve been before--this would' ; ve been 1920 so, yeah. JJ: No I don' ; t remember TL: No, you wouldn' ; t remember, yeah. 1926, yeah so. But do you remember it, people traveling it a lot? JJ: Oh yeah TL: I' ; m guessing so, yeah. Do you remember it being a big to do? Probably not because that was just the way people travelled, yeah JJ: That just normal, yeah. TL: Yeah. JJ: And we really didn' ; t travel an awful lot here, you know. People didn' ; t travel like they do now TL: Right. Okay we' ; re gonna be talking about racism about the blacks and Indians here in town, okay? Was the town segregated? JJ: Yes TL: Yes, what are your memories of it? The segregation? JJ: Segregation. I remember the Indians really more than the blacks TL: Okay JJ: And they would just sit on the sidewalks TL: Okay, on main street? JJ: On main street TL: Okay JJ: And the blacks had their own town, they didn' ; t really come into the main part of Bristow very much that I recall TL: And when you say they had their own town, where was that located at? JJ: It was over on the east 9th and 10th TL: Okay, over on east 9th and 10th which would be over--okay. JJ: Yup TL: And I think I know where that' ; s at, okay JJ: It' ; s up east of us north TL: Okay, okay. JJ: We can go over there now, there' ; s a big media hall of some kind over where that used to be TL: Okay, so that' ; s kind of where they stayed in their own part of the town, okay. And when you say that, that' ; s kind of like when you were a child or during that time period, or what time period are you? JJ: When I was a child TL: Child, okay. JJ: Segregation came in--see my brother' ; s 18 years younger than I am, and he was in one of the first segregated classes in school. They segregated the third grade I think TL: Okay JJ: But I was not--schools were segregated when I was in school TL: So they just kind of kept--the black' ; s kind of kept to their own part JJ: Yeah they had their own high school and they had their own grade school TL: And then so the Indians just kind of, you say just kind of sit on the sidewalks and stuff? And what did they do then? JJ: That' ; s all I ever saw them do TL: Okay, okay. Was there any kind of problems or anything? JJ: Not that I was aware of. Of course mother made sure I wasn' ; t aware of a lot of stuff TL: Okay. Okay, do you remember the names of any black families in town during your childhood? JJ: No TL: Okay, were you allowed to socialize with any of the black children? JJ: Wasn' ; t done TL: Okay, and I' ; m guessing none of them attended your school JJ: No TL: They had their own schools, okay. Did you ever swim at the Bristow pool? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Did ya? JJ: Yeah TL: Were there any black children allowed at the pool? No, okay. How were black people employed? JJ: I think mostly as maids and-- TL: Okay JJ: Neighbour, and see I don' ; t really know because I do know that they had--their school teachers were all educated like they had to be to teach TL: Right, so did they have their own teachers then at their school? Okay. Do you remember any freedmen in Bristow? JJ: Any what? TL: Freedmen? JJ: No TL: Okay. What are your memories of any racism in early Oklahoma? JJ: You know when you grow up with them like that you don' ; t even know it' ; s racism. I' ; m sure there was a lot of it, but my parents were very kind and very gentle and they never, never said bad things. TL: Right JJ: I' ; m sure there were bad things said, but they didn' ; t say them. TL: Right. Okay, how were the Indians treated in town? JJ: I don' ; t know ; I really don' ; t know. I know we had a lot. TL: Right JJ: As far as how they were treated, I don' ; t have any idea. TL: Do you remember any of the Indian families in town? JJ: No TL: Do you remember how they were employed? Any of the jobs that they held in town? Do you remember any of the Indian allotment holders? JJ: No, I' ; m sure there were--I' ; m sure I did but I don' ; t remember them. TL: Okay now we' ; re gonna go to the oil drilling here in town. JJ: Oh okay. TL: Okay, was your family involved in any of the early oil drilling here? JJ: No TL: Okay, the great depression. Do you have any memories of the great depression? JJ: Just that there wasn' ; t any money TL: No money, yeah. Hard times. How did it affect your home life? JJ: It really didn' ; t because my daddy worked in the post office and always had a job TL: Okay, yeah. JJ: But I had friends that were very, very poor. There just was nothing. They would love to have something to eat. TL: Right. And so your dad didn' ; t lose his job during that time? JJ: No TL: Yeah. What did it do to your grocery supply? Did you guys have to cut back at all? JJ: Not that I know of. My little mother was miss frugality so you wouldn' ; t have known it. TL: Aw, yup. Okay, do you remember the work being done to construct the lake or the park? JJ: I remember work in the park when they were building the amphitheatre. TL: Do you? Okay, what do you remember of that? JJ: I was trying to think who was president then. She came, the president' ; s wife came. TL: Eleanor Roosevelt? JJ: Was it Eleanor? It could' ; ve been TL: She came and she dedicated that JJ: Okay, she came and dedicated the amphitheatre TL: Uh-huh, did you guys go out there? JJ: Oh yeah TL: Was it pretty exciting? JJ: Yup TL: Uh-huh JJ: Pretty crowded TL: I bet, that had to be a pretty big-- JJ: It was a big deal TL: --event for Bristow JJ: Yeah it was a big deal TL: How old would' ; ve you been? JJ: Probably about 6 or 7 TL: Oh JJ: I was in, well it was in 30' ; , I think it was 36' ; [Indecipherable] TL: Did she get a pretty--did she give a speech? Is that right? JJ: I' ; m sure she did but at that age I didn' ; t-- TL: Right JJ: I thought, probably just thought it was boring TL: Right, that' ; s pretty neat JJ: More exciting TL: Uh-huh. You probably just--you knew there was excitement, you know? Not for sure what was going on but there was an excitement. So when they was building the park and the amphitheatre, did your family go out there to kind of watch the progress of it? Or not? JJ: Not that I know of TL: Okay. Did you attend events at the amphitheatre? Where they held the different events out there? Did you, besides going to the dedication of it, what events did you go to? JJ: Well over the years I' ; ve gone to a lot. They' ; ve had band things and-- TL: They used to hold graduation? JJ: Graduation TL: For high school? JJ: We' ; ve had graduations out there TL: Okay JJ: In fact, I was trying to think. I can' ; t even remember where ours was, it may have been out there TL: Really? Okay, that' ; s neat. What was the lake used for, besides people going out there for picnics, picnics and-- JJ: Fishing and-- TL: Fishing, okay. Anything else, or no? Did they ever allow boats or-- JJ: You can put little boats out there TL: Okay JJ: With little trolley (ph) motors or-- TL: Okay JJ: Actually, they had a boat house and they had boats you could rent TL: Oh JJ: But you had to paddle, we used that a lot in high school TL: Okay JJ: We' ; d go out and spend the afternoon with--on the lake just paddling around TL: And what about swimming? Did they allow or have they ever allowed? I' ; ve never seen-- JJ: Not on the lake, they' ; ve never, never allowed swimming in the lake TL: Okay I was gonna say I don' ; t think I' ; ve ever--we' ; ve been here about 20 years and I don' ; t think I' ; ve ever seen someone-- JJ: But they' ; ve always had a nice pool here so we didn' ; t need to swim in the lake TL: Okay, okay. How about ice skating? JJ: Yes, I can remember times they ice skated out there TL: Oh JJ: But I was little TL: Uh-huh JJ: I didn' ; t have any ice skates but I did skate around with my slick shoes, yeah TL: Right, yeah. Has it ever been a very, like, a lot of people going out there or--? JJ: Yeah there used to be a lot of people go out, I don' ; t know what they do anymore but-- TL: Yeah, I see a lot of walkers out there JJ: Lots of walkers TL: Yeah, I love it out there JJ: Yeah it' ; s so pretty and it' ; s peaceful TL: That' ; s what I like about it JJ: Well maintained and-- TL: It' ; s very peaceful and just, I love it out there. Okay politics JJ: Okay TL: Was your family politically involved? JJ: Not really TL: No, okay. Did any of your family members ever run for office? JJ: Well I had a great uncle that did TL: Yeah, here in Bristow? JJ: Mhm TL: Okay, and who was that? JJ: Cal Foster TL: Okay, and do you remember what office? JJ: Probably county commissioner, I don' ; t really know TL: Okay, okay. Did he win? JJ: I think he did? TL: Did he? JJ: Yeah TL: Okay, that' ; s good. Did women commonly vote during your childhood? JJ: I don' ; t know TL: Do you remember your-- JJ: I think mother voted, yeah I' ; m sure she did TL: Good for her, good for her. How was voting done during your childhood? JJ: I think pretty much like it is right now TL: Okay JJ: Here in Bristow. No, we didn' ; t have any machines, we just marked ballets TL: Right, right. Have you always voted? JJ: Yes TL: Good for you. Okay, World War II. What are your memories of WWII? JJ: Well, I had bunches of uncles in the army and the navy and the marines TL: Uh-huh JJ: I had one uncle killed in Italy TL: Okay, and who was that? JJ: Daddies youngest brother TL: And his name? JJ: Milton TL: Milton? JJ: Sears TL: Milton Sears (ph), okay. JJ: And actually I think he has a [Indecipherable] out at the cemetery TL: Okay, that would be very hard for the family JJ: I remember ration cards TL: Right JJ: And we had three gallons of gas a week, and that' ; s why we rode the train a lot TL: Right, yes. JJ: They were hard times TL: Hard times, yeah. Yeah. JJ: I remember reading the obituaries and holding your breath that nobody that you knew was gonna be on the list TL: Right, now did Milton have a family, I mean a wife? JJ: He had a wife, he was--he was only I think 19 when he died so, he was real young TL: But still hard for the family JJ: Oh yeah, Carmen never got over that. TL: I can' ; t even imagine JJ: Oh I can' ; t either, I can' ; t either. TL: So what branch was he in? You said the navy? JJ: No he was in the army TL: In the army, okay. JJ: He was a first lieutenant ; he was--he was killed on [Indecipherable] TL: For 19, he--oh, so how did they get the, how did the family get the news that he had-- JJ: With a telegram TL: Telegram JJ: They finally brought his body home TL: Did they? Okay, okay. JJ: He' ; s buried out at Magnolia TL: Oh okay. What newspapers did you read here in Bristow during that time? JJ: Oh, Bristow had two papers. They had the Record and the Citizen (ph) TL: Okay JJ: Tulsa had two papers, Tribune and the World TL: Okay JJ: We would get our Oklahoma City papers part of the time TL: Oh okay. Yeah, looking at those papers during that time, just that' ; s all front page every day, every day reading about the news. JJ: I really miss the newspapers TL: So what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? JJ: Oh dear. I suppose one that affected most people is the television TL: Okay, and why do you say that? JJ: It' ; s just a better way to get the news. [Indecipherable] TL: Right JJ: I remember sitting in front of the little radio listening to it TL: Right, while everyone gathered around it. How is the world different now than when you were a child? JJ: So many ways. Travel, it' ; s so much easier now than it was then. But I miss, I really miss the slow pace of my childhood TL: Yes JJ: Seems like we stopped longer and enjoyed it TL: Took time to enjoy things JJ: Yup TL: As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? JJ: I' ; m not smart enough to solve them, but I think the race problem is the biggest one we have. I don' ; t know why people can' ; t accept you for who you are. And then there' ; s so many more, there' ; s drugs and there' ; s all this stuff, but I really think race is the big one. TL: And then I was just gonna ask you, how are your feelings about COVID? How do you think it' ; s changed how we are doing things? JJ: I think they have overplayed it ; I' ; ve always thought it was a political thing. TL: Okay. JJ: I don' ; t pay attention to it TL: Yeah. Okay, your--Linda said that you kind of have some information about that grand piano back there, you kind of knew a little bit about the history about it? JJ: Oh, I don' ; t really. I' ; ll tell you who probably could give you some is George Foster TL: George Foster, okay. JJ: Because that looks exactly like the piano that his grandmother had TL: Okay, good deal JJ: She had it in her house TL: Okay. I think we' ; re good. Is there anything else that you would like to tell us about? About your life or? JJ: I don' ; t really think TL: Are you sure? JJ: I know the elections day is for a new hospital and I remember why they built this one TL: Yeah? Do you? JJ: Oh yeah TL: What can you tell us about it? JJ: Oh well I remember how excited Ed was TL: Uh-huh JJ: Because he had a new hospital to work at TL: Yeah, where did he have his practice? You say it was across from the post office? JJ: Oh TL: The first, his first, okay JJ: His--out where the health department is now. TL: Oh JJ: On first street, that was his office TL: Oh, okay. JJ: He and doctor McAlester shared a building TL: Okay, okay. And how long did he practice? JJ: Probably 40 years out there. He retired the day he turned forty--65 he retired TL: Good for him JJ: Yeah TL: Good for him JJ: And we had 20 years before he died TL: Uh-huh, right. Good. JJ: And we made the most of it TL: Good. Did he do surgeries or-- JJ: Mhm TL: Did he? What kind of surgeries? Just everything? JJ: He did almost anything. He actually was a trade surgeon ; he was train out in colleges but he didn' ; t wanna do a gynaecology practice TL: Uh-huh JJ: Because he would have had to go to the city and he didn' ; t want to go to the city TL: Uh-huh, did he have a special, a favourite surgery that he liked to do or? JJ: He just liked surgery, he liked to do surgery TL: Uh-huh, did-- JJ: The nurses all said he was the best surgeon out there TL: Wow, did he like doing--making house calls? JJ: Oh he made house calls TL: Uh-huh JJ: He didn' ; t like them in the middle of the night TL: Of course not, yeah JJ: And he delivered babies, he delivered babies--one of the nurses out there called him in and said " ; I' ; m having a baby and you' ; re gonna deliver it" ; TL: Did he keep tabs of how many babies he delivered? No? JJ: Said he wished he had TL: Uh-huh, yeah. JJ: He liked delivering babies, but he didn' ; t want to do it all the time TL: Right, would he walk down the street or " ; I delivered that one" ; or " ; I remember--" ; ? Did he recall memories to you of patients? No? JJ: We didn' ; t discuss patients much. Well I didn' ; t work out there unless I--he was absolutely desperate. He didn' ; t think I needed to be involved in his practice and I didn' ; t want to be TL: Smart man JJ: Yeah, well anyway. We had a good life and we raised four kids and they' ; re all successful so. TL: Good deal. JJ: Yeah, when you look at your kids and you think " ; they turned out good! And we thought in high school you were [Indecipherable].TL: Exactly, and you wonder many days and many nights JJ: Are you gonna survive this? Am I gonna survive this? TL: That' ; s right, that' ; s right. Yes, yeah. JJ: Anyway TL: Well this has been very pleasurable, thank you for doing this with us JJ: Okay TL: So yeah, okay well this concludes this interview JJ: Good TL: Thank you JJ: Thank you TL: Uh-huh. Can I--let' ; s see audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-20_Jones,_JoNell.xml OHP-2021-20_Jones,_JoNell.xml
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
JoNell Jones
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2021 interview, JoNell Jones shares her experience growing up in the Bristow area. She discusses family, town life, and travel.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-2021-20
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-04-06
Format
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audio
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound, oral history
amphitheater
Bristow Public Schools
Community Bank
drive-in theaters
First Christian Church
Great Depression
home life
Native Americans
segregation
statehood
stores
television
Washington School
World War II
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
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J C Hutson
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5.4 July 19, 2021 OHP-2021-19 J C Hutson OHP-2021-19 0:00-40:33 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. J C Hutson Georgia Smith MP3 1:|55(5)|83(9)|110(7)|140(5)|161(13)|186(1)|225(7)|248(2)|278(8)|319(3)|361(8)|389(5)|426(8)|455(2)|493(6)|519(10)|536(10)|583(3)|616(10)|638(2)|665(2)|698(12)|717(8)|731(11)|742(17)|762(5)|796(9)|822(13)|848(4)|869(2)|885(9)|910(3)|938(5)|970(3)|989(3)|1006(11)|1031(1)|1047(8)|1076(4)|1116(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/J C Hutson.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is July 19, 2021 and I am sitting here at the Rainbow Assisted Living Center with J C Hutson who’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow Area. Now, since J C can’t see, I am going to be filling out his paperwork as I answer—ask some of these questions so there may be a little bit of a pause with the questions. Okay, once again J C what was your full name at birth? JH: Johnny Cleo Hutson (ph) GS: And where were you born? JH: I was born in three miles north of Tuskegee, Oklahoma GS: And what was your father’s name? JH: Wesley Monroe Hutson GS: And your mother’s name? JH: Lily—her married name? GS: Her maiden name Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow Oklahoma ; Bristow Tire Service ; Candace Lou Hutson ; Central Gas and Oil Company ; Georgia Smith ; J C Hutson ; Jacqueline June Hutson ; Johnny Clea Hutson ; Lily A Hutson ; Rainbow Assisted Living Center ; Tuskegee, Oklahoma ; Wesley Monroe Hutson https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/160089441/wesley-monroe-hutson Wesley Monroe Hutson https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47291617/lillie-a-falconer Lillie A Falconer https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/130518979/jacqueline-june-hutson Jacqueline June Hutson 245 Childhood GS: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your life as a child growing up JH: Oh gosh, well we were living in the country and of course we didn’t have running water, we didn’t have electricity, we did have natural gas, we had gas lights and gas stove for heating and I went to school at Mountain Home, which was just across the street, across the road actually from us. GS: So it was five miles north of Bristow? JH: Yes GS: Okay, Mountain Home school district JH: There were several little—every little school district had a couple of schools GS: Okay Barrel Grocery ; Bishops ; Mountain Home ; Mountain Home School Disctrict ; Safeway 584 Grandparents and Transportation GS: Do you remember your grandparents? JH: Yes, my grandparents? GS: Yes JH: Yes, they were, their name was Carter, W. H. Carter, he was a Freewill Baptist preacher GS: Oh, how wonderful! I did not know that JH: What? GS: Was that your dads—no that would’ve been your moms JH: My mothers, my mothers GS: Okay, any other older people that you remember besides your grandparents Carters? JH: You mean in the family? GS: Uh-huh JH: No, not really model-a Ford ; W. H. Carter 695 High School GS: Okay, what about high school? Were you active in any activities when you were in high school? JH: Yes, I played basketball and I was in the junior play GS: Oh, do you remember the play? JH: Something in King Arthurs Court GS: Oh how fun JH: You know about that? GS: Yes, yes JH: Okay, and Ms. Borris (ph) was the director of it GS: Oh okay, and I guess she was the speech or drama teacher? JH: Yes Ms. Borris 770 Church GS: When you were growing up at home, did you attend church with your family? JH: Yes GS: Where was that? JH: Cleveland First Freewill Baptist Church, my granddad was the preacher. Not the preacher but then, but he was a preacher in the denomination [Indecipherable] GS: Had he retired or was he in a different church? Had he retired or was he in a different church? JH: He was in a different church GS: Okay. You—do you remember any of the songs that they sang? JH: Oh my gosh, I do but I’m [Indecipherable] GS: That’s okay, that’s okay. Did they do special things for Christmas or holidays? Cleveland, Oklahoma ; First Freewill Baptist Church 899 Medical Care GS: Okay we’re gonna switch gears and go with what was medical care like when you were a child? Did you ever have to go to the doctor? JH: Not very often, no. Unless you had a bad case of poison ivy or something like this that’s, you know, the only way that you ever went to the doctor. GS: Do you remember your family doctor? JH: Doctor Sisler (ph) GS: Dr. Sisler from Sisler Clinic. Did your mother give birth at home to all of you? JH: Yes GS: And did Doctor Sisler or one of the doctors—no, one of the—a doctor came out JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay Doctor Sisler ; Sisler Clinic 952 Recollections of Bristow GS: What are your recollections of Bristow when you were young? Your earliest recollections of Bristow? JH: Oh gosh, it was all—we had so many nice stores, you could buy about anything you wanted to buy in Bristow and usually on Sunday evening, everybody had their bath and we went to town and we had lots of the oil field people GS: Yes JH: I mean a lot of them GS: Yes Anthonys ; J C Pennys ; Safeway ; Warehouse Market 1131 Military GS: Did you serve in the military in WWII? JH: Yes GS: What branch? JH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force. What were your duties there? JH: I was a tail gunner on a B-17 flying fortress GS: Oh my goodness, did you have some pretty scary moments— JH: Yes GS: --During that time? B-17 Flying Fortress 1312 Trips GS: Oh that’s wonderful, that’s good. And where did you meet Jackie? JH: Well of course I’ve known her all—I met her in high school GS: Okay, so you met in high school and did you date in high school? JH: No GS: No, waited until after you got out? JH: What? GS: What brought you together? JH: I don’t know, we—she went to the Baptist church and I did too and of course we were in the same classes in school in high school and, I don’t know we just had—we were in the same circles, we had the same friends and it’s, you know, it just grew better and better all the time J. D. Dobson ; New York Harbor ; San Francisco 1624 Bristow Tire GS: Well dates are hard for everyone to remember, dates always have been. Tell me a little bit about your Bristow Tire business. JH: I was selling bread for Bottom Bread company at that time for quite a while, and my father-in-law was getting old, he owned Bristow Tire GS: Oh, your father-in-law owned it! JH: Yes GS: And his last name was Carter, right? JH: No his last name was Moore GS: No Moore, Moore. What was his first name? JH: P. M. we called him Bristow Tire ; Goodyear Tires ; OBU ; P. M. Moore ; Rotary Club ; Western Heritage Days 2000 Main Street GS: Yes, any other memories of main street? JH: No, just the memories of back in the 30’s and 40’s when all the oil fields here GS: Did you ever see Bob Wills when he came through town? JH: Oh yeah, uh-huh GS: At the J& ; J Café? JH: No, it was in—Bob Wills was at Hamburger King GS: I meant Hamburger King, I said J& ; J but I knew it was Hamburger King JH: Well he—he was a Hamburger King man Bob Wills ; Hamburger King ; J& ; J Cafe 2044 Communication GS: How did you get information about the war when you were in the 40’s? JH: How did I get information? GS: Uh-huh, like over the radio, television? JH: [Indecipherable] well all we got was—on the radio, of course until we went into the army, and we got very little even when we were in the army just on what we were doing and maybe what we were gonna do. GS: Yes, they wouldn’t give you any more information, would they? JH: No, no. Not lots of information 2088 Closing Thoughts GS: What would you consider to be the most important change that has happened in your lifetime? JH: A what? GS: An invention or maybe an invention—an important invention? JH: No I can’t remember one, there were so many little—you know, when you were raised, when you’re a little country boy, everything is new and kind of nice kind of to you GS: True JH: So everything was very interesting then. GS: Yes, it was JH: Lots of changes taking place GS: There were, how is the world different today than it was back then? JH: One thing I think we were much friendlier back then, and of course the—we get so much information now so easily and they didn’t back then Bristow Record ; Tulsa World In this 2021 interview, J C Hutson talks about growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his time in the military and owning the Bristow Tire Shop. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: J C Hutson Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-19 at 00:00 to 40:33 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is July 19, 2021 and I am sitting here at the Rainbow Assisted Living Center with J C Hutson who' ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow Area. Now, since J C can' ; t see, I am going to be filling out his paperwork as I answer--ask some of these questions so there may be a little bit of a pause with the questions. Okay, once again J C what was your full name at birth? JH: Johnny Cleo Hutson (ph) GS: And where were you born? JH: I was born in three miles north of Tuskegee, Oklahoma GS: And what was your father' ; s name? JH: Wesley Monroe HutsonGS: And your mother' ; s name? JH: Lily--her married name? GS: Her maiden name JH: Lily A Hutson (ph) GS: What was her maiden name? JH: Carter GS: And what was your spouse' ; s name? JH: Jacqueline June Hutson, Moore was her maiden name GS: Do you remember how to spell Jacqueline? JH: J. A. C. Q. U. E. L. I. N. E. GS: Moore? JH: Yes GS: Okay. Do you remember when you got married? JH: No I really don' ; t GS: That' ; s okay, I' ; ve noticed most men don' ; t. Okay, do you remember where you got married? JH: Yes, out in Bristow GS: Okay JH: At her mother and dads home. GS: Did you have any children JH: Yes, we have one child GS: And what is her name? JH: Candace Lou Hutson (ph) GS: And what education level did you achieve? JH: One year of college GS: And what about occupations? What have you done in your life work wise? JH: The most lucrative, the best employment I ever did was with the tire shop, Bristow Tire Service. GS: And you were the owner of that, weren' ; t you? JH: Yes, right. GS: What years did you do that J C? JH: Oh my gosh, I can' ; t remember but it was probably about 20 to 25 years GS: You were there a long time, my parents went to you then I did when I got grown, so you were there a long time. You were born by Tuskegee, when did your parents move to Bristow? Or when did you move to Bristow? JH: Well we didn' ; t move to Bristow, we moved five miles north east of Bristow. GS: Okay JH: And my dad was working for Central Oil and Gas Company GS: Ah that' ; s wonderful, my father worked for them also JH: I think [Indecipherable] GS: Yeah, yeah. And do you remember about what year you moved north of Bristow? Were you pretty small? JH: Oh yes, I was small child. GS: Okay, and your mother, was she a stay at home mom? JH: Yes GS: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your life as a child growing up JH: Oh gosh, well we were living in the country and of course we didn' ; t have running water, we didn' ; t have electricity, we did have natural gas, we had gas lights and gas stove for heating and I went to school at Mountain Home, which was just across the street, across the road actually from us. GS: So it was five miles north of Bristow? JH: Yes GS: Okay, Mountain Home school district JH: There were several little--every little school district had a couple of schools GS: Okay JH: And that' ; s where I went to school until I was in the junior high in Bristow, then my dad and mother, and of course we had--also some people who lived in the area that were working for Central. There was three houses in the area we lived and we--our families would take turns hauling us to school in Bristow. GS: All right, you did some carpooling back then JH: Uh-huh GS: So you went--you started going to Bristow in Junior High, right? JH: Yes GS: In--growing up-- JH: Probably not until--not until I was in high school GS: Oh, in high school, okay. At home, did you have chores that you had to do? JH: At home? Yes. Yeah we always had chickens and cows and of course we had to--we' ; d clean up, keep the yard clean GS: Sure JH: And there was just lots of new projects, you know, when you live in the country [Indecipherable]. Of course she always had a big garden, which I hated to work in it but I loved to-- GS: Eat the fresh veggies? JH: Yes, we lived right across the street, it' ; s not the street, the road from mountain road school GS: Okay, were you the only child? JH: Oh no GS: How many children did-- JH: Four and four GS: Four and-- JH: Eight children GS: Oh my goodness JH: Four boys and four girls GS: Are any of them living today? JH: No GS: Aw, did you have to share your beds with your siblings? JH: Yes, always yes. GS: What kind of toys did you have as a child? JH: What? GS: What games or toys did you have as a child? JH: Oh my gosh, we played with rubber guns and [Indecipherable] flips and we dug caves and we built tree houses and of course we played cowboy and Indian and we had a beautiful big croquet court GS: Yes JH: We seemed to always have a lot of fun GS: I' ; m sure you did, sounds like my husband' ; s upbringing. JH: Yeah GS: Now your mom, it sounds like your house was pretty self-sufficient. You grew your vegetables, you grew your own meat, did she come into town to shop at any of the local grocery stores? JH: I' ; m not sure, usually over the weekend on Saturday GS: Okay okay, and what--do you remember what markets were open then? JH: [Indecipherable] GS: What ones she traded with? JH: There was a store named Barrel, Barrel Grocery (ph), and I think Bishops might' ; ve sold stuff, them too. GS: Okay JH: And of course Safeway was here and there were several--we had a beautiful town, we had several grocery stores. GS: We did have a nice town back then. Since you grew some vegetables and meat, did your mom can the vegetables? JH: She always, all the vegetables in the garden, she usually canned several of them GS: Did you get in on helping with that? JH: Oh yeah, we always had to get in on all the peeling and corn and all the stuff that you knew you had to do when you' ; re canning GS: Did she make any jelly? JH: Oh yes, yes. GS: Did she grow the-- JH: We didn' ; t grow any grapes or any kind of fruit, we always had to buy that GS: Okay, what about blackberries? Did you go out and pick the wild blackberries? JH: Yes, we did GS: Did your family employ any household help? With all those kids probably not. JH: No GS: What kind of clothes did you wear as a child? JH: What kind of clothes? GS: Uh-huh JH: I can give you a picture of it right here GS: Oh alright! I' ; m going to pause for just a minute JH: That' ; s striped GS: Yes JH: Stripe and overalls GS: I love it, I love it. Before I leave, can I take a screenshot of that with my phone? JH: Sure, yes uh-huh GS: Oh thank you so much J C, we' ; ll lay it right here and don' ; t let me forget that. Do you remember your grandparents? JH: Yes, my grandparents? GS: Yes JH: Yes, they were, their name was Carter, W. H. Carter, he was a Freewill Baptist preacher GS: Oh, how wonderful! I did not know that JH: What? GS: Was that your dads--no that would' ; ve been your moms JH: My mothers, my mothers GS: Okay, any other older people that you remember besides your grandparents Carters? JH: You mean in the family? GS: Uh-huh JH: No, not really GS: Okay, did you ever see your Hutson grandparents? Did you ever see your Hutson grandparents? JH: Yes, my--not my grandmother, she passed away before I came along. But yeah he came to visit us, his name was Jim GS: Okay JH: And he lived out in Lawton, Oklahoma, he came once a year to visit us GS: That' ; s a ways, especially back then JH: Yes GS: Travel took a lot longer, didn' ; t it? JH: Yeah GS: How did they travel to come and see you? JH: Well usually he--he usually took the bus GS: Okay, and we had bus service here then, didn' ; t we? JH: Yes. Uh-huh GS: Grey Hound Bus service JH: Uh-huh GS: Do you remember going to pick him up from the bus station? JH: Yes, I probably was out playing somewhere and someone else would drive in and pick him up GS: Sure, yeah. JH: In a Model-A Ford GS: Oh how wonderful, how--a model-a Ford. I didn' ; t ask you about your first teacher, do you remember your first teacher? It' ; s okay if you don' ; t JH: No, I--my mom, I was thinking maybe it was [Indecipherable] was her name, well I' ; m not sure GS: Okay, what about high school? Were you active in any activities when you were in high school? JH: Yes, I played basketball and I was in the junior play GS: Oh, do you remember the play? JH: Something in King Arthurs Court GS: Oh how fun JH: You know about that? GS: Yes, yes JH: Okay, and Ms. Borris (ph) was the director of it GS: Oh okay, and I guess she was the speech or drama teacher? JH: Yes GS: Any--were you in any sports? JH: Yeah basketball GS: Basketball. Did they have women' ; s basketball also back then in Bristow? JH: No I don' ; t think so ; I don' ; t think so. GS: Don' ; t think so. Did you pack your food? Did you have a sack lunch that you took to school every day? A sack lunch? JH: No, we usually had just the cafeteria GS: Okay, was the food-- JH: Or downtown bought a meal GS: How was the food in the cafeteria? JH: Pretty good GS: Pretty good food, of course back then they made it all by hand, didn' ; t they? JH: Yes GS: When you were growing up at home, did you attend church with your family? JH: Yes GS: Where was that? JH: Cleveland First Freewill Baptist Church, my granddad was the preacher. Not the preacher but then, but he was a preacher in the denomination [Indecipherable] GS: Had he retired or was he in a different church? Had he retired or was he in a different church? JH: He was in a different church GS: Okay. You--do you remember any of the songs that they sang? JH: Oh my gosh, I do but I' ; m [Indecipherable] GS: That' ; s okay, that' ; s okay. Did they do special things for Christmas or holidays? JH: Yes, usually yes GS: What did they do? JH: You mean the church? GS: Uh-huh JH: They usually had a little skit, you know, the manger and all this stuff and then we sang Christmas songs. GS: Did-- JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Did the children do that or adults? JH: Both GS: Both? JH: MhmGS: Very good. Did you or your mother or your dad sing in the choir? JH: No, but I did GS: Okay JH: And two of my sisters did and a brother did. GS: Did you keep singing as you grew older, did you keep singing? JH: Did I teach it? GS: Did you keep on singing? JH: Yes, I really did GS: Well good, good. We need more singers. JH: I was in the choir at First Baptist church GS: Okay, for a long time? JH: Yes, it' ; s been a long time. GS: When did you start going to First Baptist? JH: I guess probably when I married, started going with Jaqueline. GS: Is that where she went? JH: Yes GS: Okay we' ; re gonna switch gears and go with what was medical care like when you were a child? Did you ever have to go to the doctor? JH: Not very often, no. Unless you had a bad case of poison ivy or something like this that' ; s, you know, the only way that you ever went to the doctor. GS: Do you remember your family doctor? JH: Doctor Sisler (ph) GS: Dr. Sisler from Sisler Clinic. Did your mother give birth at home to all of you? JH: Yes GS: And did Doctor Sisler or one of the doctors--no, one of the--a doctor came out JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay JH: And that' ; s something all four--all eight of us GS: All eight delivered at home, that' ; s marvelous. She didn' ; t have any still births that you know of or miscarriages? What are your recollections of Bristow when you were young? Your earliest recollections of Bristow? JH: Oh gosh, it was all--we had so many nice stores, you could buy about anything you wanted to buy in Bristow and usually on Sunday evening, everybody had their bath and we went to town and we had lots of the oil field people GS: Yes JH: I mean a lot of them GS: Yes JH: And they would kind of gang up on the street and talk and you just tell one lie, but they--everybody was so friendly and they were--we were happy to see each other and it was just a gathering place of, oh I don' ; t know what the word I want to use, but it was happy occasions that everybody--the streets would be full of people and full of cars and all the stores will be open and doing business and it was just a wonderful time GS: It sounds like it, sounds like something we need now JH: And you looked forward to meeting some new friends GS: Sure, it was a big social event wasn' ; t it? JH: Yes, it sure was GS: Did they ever have entertainment during these times? JH: You mean a street entertainer or something? GS: MhmJH: No, not that I remember GS: Just everybody just visited and told stories JH: Yes, uh-huh GS: Okay, that sounds really nice. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a child? JH: You know [Indecipherable] GS: Oh, that' ; s okay. And your first job, what was your first good paying job? JH: I guess working at a grocery store GS: Okay. Do you remember the name of that store? JH: I think it was the Warehouse Market GS: Oh okay JH: We had a Warehouse Market here GS: How old were you? JH: Oh I was probably 18, 17 or 18 GS: Still in high school? JH: What? GS: Were you still in high school JH: Yes, uh-huh. And also I worked JC Penny (ph) GS: Okay, we had one of those back then too JH: Yeah we had Anthonys, we had Pennys, we had Safeway, we' ; s just--all the good stores we had here. GS: Now I know you were pretty young during the depression, what are your memories of the depression? JH: I really don' ; t have any GS: Don' ; t have any, it didn' ; t affect your family much did it? JH: No, not at all. GS: With being self-sufficient on the farm JH: All we did, people worried all the time you know, about their family and about their job GS: Sure JH: Excuse me, what did you ask? GS: No that' ; s fine, yeah that' ; s good. Did you serve in the military in WWII? JH: Yes GS: What branch? JH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force. What were your duties there? JH: I was a tail gunner on a B-17 flying fortress GS: Oh my goodness, did you have some pretty scary moments-- JH: Yes GS: --During that time? JH: We did have ; I only flew six missions. We went to, we would always get up real early, probably about 3 o' ; clock in the morning and we would go to the sergeant cafeteria but they called it the mess hall GS: Yes JH: And before I even got into the mess hall, I started having pains in my stomach. And anyway, as I sat there before everything started, I started vomiting GS: Oh myJH: And I went to the, what do you call it? Doctor, same as doctors. You remember what they called the doctors in the-- GS: In the service? I don' ; t JH: Infirmary probably GS: Oh yes JH: Anyway they took me down there and said that I had appendicitis GS: Oh myJH: But I didn' ; t--wasn' ; t operated on at that time. Anyway, they got another young man from the area and he flew in my place and that plane was shot down that day GS: Oh my, J C JH: Yeah, the only people who got out was the pilot and co-pilot and the side gunner and I have been--felt kind of guilt, they called in for a replacement for me, but I have felt guilty ever since then that I didn' ; t--I wasn' ; t doing really what I needed to do, but I couldn' ; t help it. I felt like-- GS: Like it should' ; ve been you up there JH: Yes GS: Did your replacement, did he pass away? JH: What? GS: Did your replacement live? JH: He got killed GS: He got killed JH: MhmGS: Yeah but-- JH: Everybody was killed except the pilot, co-pilot, and the side gunner GS: Well, God knew that you were needed for-- JH: They were shot down, what? GS: God knew you were needed for something later on JH: Well evidently I don' ; t know what it would be GS: Isn' ; t it odd how appendicitis could save you JH: Yes GS: But it did JH: I' ; m sure it was for some reason GS: I' ; m sure it was. Did you see--after, I' ; m sorry I apologize. After that, did you see any active combat up there? JH: No, nothing, the war was over in just about a week or two GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful, that' ; s good. And where did you meet Jackie? JH: Well of course I' ; ve known her all--I met her in high school GS: Okay, so you met in high school and did you date in high school? JH: No GS: No, waited until after you got out? JH: What? GS: What brought you together? JH: I don' ; t know, we--she went to the Baptist church and I did too and of course we were in the same classes in school in high school and, I don' ; t know we just had--we were in the same circles, we had the same friends and it' ; s, you know, it just grew better and better all the time GS: Sure, sure. Tell me about traveling back then. Travel, after you were a young man did you have a vehicle or did you take buses, trains? JH: No we took short trips in [Indecipherable] or a car, but we had several nice trips. We went to--we had, go on two or three cruises, we went to San Francisco and all the California areas. Drove down [Indecipherable] and drove down highway [Indecipherable] to the Hurst, went through the Hurst mansion. And the funny thing happened, we went into the, what' ; s the capital of California? GS: Is it Sacramento? JH: Sacramento, and we was just, it was almost time to eat so we went into a place not too far from the capital and as you were sitting there eating, and we were looking out the window and I said " ; Jackie, there is J.D. Dobson" ; , he graduated with us in high school GS: Oh my word, what a coincidence JH: And Jackie said " ; No that' ; s not J" ; I said " ; Yeah hunny, it' ; s J.D." ; so I went to the front of the door that they were entering and walked in behind him and said " ; J.D." ; , he turned around and quickly recognized me. And Jackie, he was real sweet on Jackie in high school GS: Oh myJH: But we had a very interesting talk and then we also, we took two or three cruises and we were on, we were in New York Harbor, [Indecipherable] ready to sail after midnight on 9/11 GS: Oh my word JH: So we went ahead and took our little cruise and I guess it was about three days later, it was about time to come home, and we couldn' ; t get a plane, just about everything was grounded GS: Yes JH: But we did finally get a plane into [Indecipherable] Georgia and then flew back home from there GS: Wow JH: But that was a wonderful trip, but we had a lot of, like--we took two or three cruises and we went up to--after that, we went to, back to New York and then we got a car and drove way up into Maine and then back down then we, they called us [Indecipherable] and they called the little people that came in, they called them leaf peepers. You know, the pretty leaves? GS: Yes JH: And we drove from Maine all the way back down to [Indecipherable]. Anyway, as we were driving along one evening about supper time, there was a big sign on the church that said " ; leaf peepers welcome, dinner tonight at so-and-so" ; GS: Wow JH: I said " ; Jackie, you wanna try that" ; she said " ; sure" ; so we went and had dinner with them GS: Well how nice is that JH: And they were very nice, we really enjoyed it. But we had a lot of nice trips like that, and of course we went to the cruise, went to England, Ireland, Scotland, so we had a really nice life, Jackie and I did. GS: That' ; s wonderful JH: Even though we were kind of poor GS: I don' ; t think you were kind of poor JH: But anyway, we both were working and we had fun GS: When did you lose Jackie? When did Jackie pass away? JH: 8 years ago, I believe it is GS: 8 years ago JH: Yes, I can' ; t remember the date GS: I' ; m sorry JH: [Indecipherable] I' ; m getting to where I can' ; t remember anything GS: Well dates are hard for everyone to remember, dates always have been. Tell me a little bit about your Bristow Tire business. JH: I was selling bread for Bottom Bread company at that time for quite a while, and my father-in-law was getting old, he owned Bristow Tire GS: Oh, your father-in-law owned it! JH: Yes GS: And his last name was Carter, right? JH: No his last name was Moore GS: No Moore, Moore. What was his first name? JH: P. M. we called him GS: P. M. Moore owned Bristow tire before you did JH: Yeah GS: Okay JH: And he was getting old and wasn' ; t able to just do things, you know, like he should so he and his wife came to me and asked me if I' ; d like to, you know, be in the tire business and I said sure. So I went to work for him, and worked for quite some time GS: Sure JH: And then he decided to sell it to me, so he did, I don' ; t know what year it was but I was down there for thirty years GS: Oh my goodness JH: But anyway, I took over the tire business GS: Was it the 50' ; s? Was it in the 50' ; s? Was it in the 1950' ; s do you think? JH: It could be, yes GS: Okay JH: I don' ; t really remember. But anyway the Lord has been good to me, has blessed us with a real nice business, I couldn' ; t have asked for anything any better, and of course I got to work right here at home, and my customers were, you know, I don' ; t know the word I want to use but they were always happy that they could do business with someone that was honest. GS: Yes, I think that' ; s why my parents did business with you. JH: Right, but anyway as I said the Lord was good to us, he gave us enough money to get a new home and take care of our child that went to college, so everything--I' ; ve had a pretty good life [Indecipherable] GS: Where did Candy go to college? JH: She went down to OBU for a while, and then to Edmond GS: And where does she live now? JH: She lives in Tulsa GS: In Tulsa, for some reason I thought she lived in New York JH: No, uh-uh GS: Okay, well I sure didn' ; t know that. Let' ; s see here, what memories do you have of Bristow when you had the tire shop? You know, like maybe businesses you did business with or events that they had, like Western Heritage Days, they had the Western Heritage Days. JH: Yeah, my father-in-law had horses and I decided that I' ; d like to be a cowboy, so I started riding one of his horses and he said Well [Indecipherable] guy try to teach you, you know, to be a [Indecipherable]. I tried that for a while, but you don' ; t just decide [Indecipherable] GS: Yes JH: And I kind of hurt my back one evening riding the horse, and Jackie said " ; I think that' ; s the end of your cowboying" ; . And of course Candy was little. GS: Uh-huh JH: But anyway, we had lots of fun GS: Good, did you belong to any organizations in Bristow? JH: Yeah, I belonged to the Rotary Club and of course was a member of First Baptist church GS: Right, were there any project you were active--were there any projects that you were active in in those two organizations? JH: Yes, Rotary Club usually had some kind of fundraisers or I was cleaning up the city or doing something like this about all the time. Of course it depended on what kind of a President we had, whether he wanted to do projects or not. GS: Right, right. What kind of tires did you sell at Bristow Tire? JH: Goodyear was my main tire and I used some, I bought some cheaper tires-- GS: For people to afford, yeah JH: What Hun? GS: If they couldn' ; t afford the Goodyear tires? JH: Yes, right GS: Yes. Did you have good business dealings with your--did you have good business with your suppliers? JH: Oh yes, you bet GS: Good, good, good. Any big thoughts stand out while you had Bristow Tire? Anything stand out while you owned that? I take-- JH: Well I have one, there was a lady that came in one day and she said, and I thought it was pretty nice, she said " ; You' ; re a Christian, aren' ; t you?" ; I said " ; Yes ma' ; am, I am" ; . I said " ; How' ; d you know?" ; , she said " ; Because you always have a smile on your face" ; GS: Aw how wonderful JH: And that meant a lot to me GS: Well you better believe it, that was a good witness too JH: Yeah GS: That' ; s wonderful, do you-- JH: Of course we had lots of people who weren' ; t smiling also GS: Yes, there always are JH: Yeah GS: When did you sell your Bristow Tire? JH: Oh my gosh, let' ; s see. I' ; d guess it' ; s been probably 15 years ago or so GS: And you sold to Jack Smith? JH: Jack Smith, uh-huh GS: Okay. And now his son is running it, Elliot Smith JH: Yes GS: Yes, any other memories of main street? JH: No, just the memories of back in the 30' ; s and 40' ; s when all the oil fields here GS: Did you ever see Bob Wills when he came through town? JH: Oh yeah, uh-huh GS: At the J& ; J Café? JH: No, it was in--Bob Wills was at Hamburger King GS: I meant Hamburger King, I said J& ; J but I knew it was Hamburger King JH: Well he--he was a Hamburger King man GS: That' ; s right JH: No I never did go to any of the performances GS: But you got to see him here in town JH: Yes, mhm: How did you get information about the war when you were in the 40' ; s? JH: How did I get information? GS: Uh-huh, like over the radio, television? JH: [Indecipherable] well all we got was--on the radio, of course until we went into the army, and we got very little even when we were in the army just on what we were doing and maybe what we were gonna do. GS: Yes, they wouldn' ; t give you any more information, would they? JH: No, no. Not lots of information GS: What would you consider to be the most important change that has happened in your lifetime? JH: A what? GS: An invention or maybe an invention--an important invention? JH: No I can' ; t remember one, there were so many little--you know, when you were raised, when you' ; re a little country boy, everything is new and kind of nice kind of to you GS: True JH: So everything was very interesting then. GS: Yes, it was JH: Lots of changes taking place GS: There were, how is the world different today than it was back then? JH: One thing I think we were much friendlier back then, and of course the--we get so much information now so easily and they didn' ; t back then GS: Right JH: We had to depend on the radio or the newspaper, sometimes that was a little bit late coming out GS: Right, what newspaper did you read? JH: Tulsa World, and the Bristow News--Bristow Record GS: Bristow Record, yes. Have you been affected any by the pandemic that we' ; re going through? The COVID pandemic? JH: Not really GS: That' ; s good, that' ; s good. Did you get lonesome here when it was in lockdown? JH: Oh yes, sure GS: Is there anything I haven' ; t thought to ask you J C that you would like to tell me? JH: No, I can' ; t think of anything, I just--I' ; ve had a [Indecipherable]. There is one thing back when I was a kid, we lived out in the country, we didn' ; t have electricity, and it--my mother did have a washing machine, it was gasoline operated. And one--on wash day one day, she did the washer, and of course we didn' ; t have a dryer, and we had everything on the clothes line. GS: Uh-huh JH: Usually all of our clothes had to be washed. But anyway we hung them all on the clothes line, and it came time to get them in, we thought we went out and checked them and my mother said that they' ; re still a little damp, let' ; s just leave them out tonight and we' ; ll bring them in tomorrow. Well the next morning we woke up, we didn' ; t have any clothes or clothes pin, we had nothing. Someone had stolen all of our clothes GS: Oh my goodness, the [Indecipherable] JH: And another time, just listen to this. Another time we went out and we always had a few chickens so we had eggs. And we' ; d went out to turn the chickens out the next morning, there wasn' ; t any chickens [Indecipherable] GS: Oh myJH: And I' ; m not through yet. We all--we had a garage, and the car was in it, and we always had a pretty nice car. But anyway, dad opened the garage door and the car was sitting on blocks. Somebody had stolen all the tires and wheels. GS: Wow JH: And we thought we were in a nice neighborhood GS: Was that in the 30' ; s? JH: Yes GS: Yeah, during the depression time JJ: And we were sure disappointed, you know, when your--you say that you might be poor folks. My dad had a job but they didn' ; t pay a lot back then. But anyway we lived through all of it. GS: I think you were one of the fortunate ones, you didn' ; t have to get up and move JH: That' ; s right GS: You always had food on the table JH: Right GS: So I think your family was rich JH: We surely were GS: And you had each other JH: Uh-huh GS: And did all of your siblings grow into adulthood? JH: Yes GS: That' ; s wonderful, it is wonderful JH: They' ; re all gone now, but they were adults. GS: One thing I forgot to ask you, when you first took over Bristow tire, was it in the same location that it is now? JH: Yes, right. GS: Do you remember that address? It' ; s on West 4th, I know. JH: Yes GS: Probably the 100 block of West 4th JH: It' ; s one something, I can' ; t remember exactly GS: Yeah, okay but it was in the same location? JH: Yes, uh-huh GS: Was it ever in a different location? JH: Yes, my father-in-law had it--it was up on main at, let' ; s see what' ; s that on that corner? Where Bolin Ford is? GS: Okay, so maybe 11th street? JH: [Indecipherable], that' ; s where he had his tire shop GS: Okay JH: It' ; s a very small place GS: Did he move it ; I guess he moved it to 4th street before you took it over JH: Yes, yeah. GS: Okay, alright. J C, I just appreciate you so much for letting me interview you JH: Thank you GS: And next time you see Candy, tell her I said hi. JH: Thank you for coming by GS: I really, really appreciate it and we really appreciate it at the museum JH: Yeah, I' ; ve had a long life, I' ; ve had a good life, and I praise God for it. GS: Amen audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-19,_Hutson,_J_C.xml OHP-2021-19,_Hutson,_J_C.xml
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Title
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J C Hutson
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2021 interview, J C Hutson talks about growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his time in the military and owning the Bristow Tire Shop.
Identifier
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OHP-2021-19
Date
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2021-07-19
Format
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audio
Creator
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
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Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
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English
Type
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sound, oral history
Bob Wills
Bristow Tire
First Baptist Church
Great Depression
Greyhound bus
Mountain Home School
Rotary Club
stores
World War II