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Oral History
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Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Joseph Alfred "Joe" Ihle
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=Joe_Ihle.xml
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Bristow
Pecan
Hospital
OHMS Object Text
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5.4 OHP2-0003 Joseph Alfred " ; Joe" ; Ihle OHP2-0003 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. History in Bristow Bristow Pecan Hospital Joseph Alfred " ; Joe" ; Ihle Debbie Blansett MP3 MP3 1:|22(2)|61(7)|88(2)|106(4)|130(3)|153(7)|201(3)|234(5)|273(8)|291(3)|306(4)|326(4)|346(6)|361(6)|383(1)|407(4)|419(10)|437(3)|455(4)|469(2)|505(2)|529(4)|544(1)|583(6)|593(2)|603(12)|635(2)|644(8)|662(11)|677(9)|694(9)|717(3)|728(10)|736(8)|749(2)|760(11)|770(1)|778(4)|789(8)|819(2)|840(5)|864(2)|877(12)|894(12)|913(4)|926(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Joe Ihle.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is July 8, 2020, and I am sitting here with Joe Ihle in his home in Bristow, Oklahoma, who is going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Okay! Let’s begin. What was your name when you were born? JI: What was my name? DB: Mmm-hmm [affirming]. Introduction and family history Bristow ; Iva Mae ; Joe Ihle ; Joseph Alfred Ihle ; lumber yard ; Margarie ; Marine Corps ; oil boom ; Quantico ; rigs Joe Ihle 205 Childhood, Schools, Teachers, and Fun DB: Two boys and two girls. Okay. Now. Early childhood: what do you remember about growing up? In Bristow? JI: Bristow was really a great place to grow up for kids. You didn’t have the problems then with drugs and so on and so forth that you have now. We had a great swimming pool, we had a good school system—really good school system. Good athletic programs. And it was just a—just a good place to grow up. DB: In school, how—I’ve seen pictures of old yearbooks. Did—and it looks like people dressed differently when you would’ve been in school. So, can you tell a little bit about—I mean, you dressed up to go to school, right? Memories of Bristow school, teachers, and activities basketball ; Bristow ; football ; Joe Jackson ; Junior College ; Washington School Bristow ; schools ; teachers 451 College, coaches, and sports DB: Wow! And you went—did you go to college? JI: I went to junior college for a year, and then went down to OU . DB: Boomer Sooner! JI: Yep, Boomer Sooner. I had uncles that played down there, that I’d been down there a lot of times to college football games, and— DB: Who was the coach then? JI: At Bristow? Discussion of college and college athletics Mose LeForce ; Snorter Luster ; University of Oklahoma ; weight program college ; football ; University of Oklahoma 542 Childhood home, summer times, and the pool DB: It’s a completely different way of thinking now. When you were growing up, did you live in town or did you live in the country? JI: Lived in town. DB: In town? Is your house still here? JI: Yes. DB: It’s still here! Your childhood home. And what do you remember playing with when you were little? Like, did you have a favorite toys, or— JI: Oh, gosh! We had a great neighborhood—Sherman Smith, Bill Ross, Buddy Brown, Quince Brown, Johnny Raney, it was a great neighborhood— Memories of childhood friends, swimming, and the amphitheater amphitheater ; Bill Ross ; boxing ; Buddy Brown ; childhood home ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Johnny Raney ; Quince Brown ; Sherman Smith ; softball ; wrestling amphitheater ; Bristow ; Eleanor Roosevelt 844 Career, Pecans, and Raw Fur DB: Tore it down. So—and I know you’ve had lots of jobs. JI: I’m sorry? DB: You’ve—you’ve had a lot of work yourself, you’ve done a lot of different things. JI: Yes. DB: Through your life, what were some of those things? JI: Well, outside of what I did growing up, you know, after I got out of the Marine Corps we went—we put in a—Pete Folk (ph) and Dick Vining (ph) and myself put in a pecan processing plant. Which was a—wasn’t the smartest thing we ever did. Discussion of career after the Marine Corps Clyde LeForce ; Creek Mill ; Dick Vining ; Grain elevator ; harvester ; Marine Corps ; pecan ; Pecan & ; Ag ; pecan processing ; Pete Folk ; raw fur ; tree shaker agriculture ; Pecan & ; Ag 1190 Elementary School and Activities DB: Let’s see, we covered school. Were you a member of any club or organization in school? JI: In school? I don’t—DeMolay. DB: Do what? JI: DeMolay. DB: I don’t know what that is. JI: It’s a youth organization of the Masons. DB: Oh! JI: And the DeMolay was for boys and Rainbow for the girls. And— Discussion of school activities and walking to school DeMolay ; Masons ; Rainbow ; Washington School Masons ; Washington School 1315 80s Fashion DB: --You just, yeah, it’s just different. Okay, let’s see—what—we could’ve talked a little bit about how people dressed. Pretty much—we talked about how people dressed. Pretty casual. JI: That was pretty casual. There wasn’t— DB: I remember when I moved here in ’81, like, the women wore dresses to work, there were—we didn’t wear slacks, but some in other places there were, so I guess maybe that was a little different. JI: Oh, you know, for many years there weren’t any shorts. You know, today, shorts is the dress of everybody, just about, during the summertime. DB: Absolutely. Short discussion on 80s fashion 80s fashion ; shorts ; slacks 80s fashion 1403 Church and Modes of Transporation DB: Well now, I know you go to the Methodist Church. Did you always go to the Methodist Church? JI: Yes. My mother was very, very devout Christian and we were in church twice on Sunday and once during the week. Every Sunday school—I mean the whole— DB: Every—when the door was open, you were there. JI: And—yeah, and there was no picture shows on Sunday or anything like that until finally it got, the pressure got—she backed off of that. (laughs) Discussion of church and modes of transporation Marine Corps ; Methodist Church ; plane ; train church ; travel 1601 Military, Segregation, and Integration DB: (laughs) Didn’t have a choice. And you were in—so you were about eighteen or nineteen when you enlisted? You were in college? JI: I was probably nineteen. DB: About nineteen. And— JI: It was the thing to do. There was none of this—I’d say ninety-nine percent of the guys would’ve been heartbroken if they couldn’t get in, and they couldn’t serve. There might’ve been one percent that—or less that they did not want to. And then those that were physically unfit that couldn’t serve because of their physical conditions, they were really heartbroken. I mean it was a, it was a completely different thing and it was a—the war was a—just everybody was involved. Everybody was—the people at home suffered greatly. They—it was—everybody participated. Discussion on enlisting into the military and memories of segregation and integration enlisted ; integration ; segregation ; Teen Town ; war ; World War II integration ; Marine Corps ; segregation ; World War II 1873 Oil Boom DB: Let’s see. Any oil drilling in your family? An oil people in your family? JI: Oil? Oh, my dad was involved with all of the rig building back there-- DB: Oh, yeah. JI: --during the boom. That’s when your derricks were all built—they had a rig, you know, timber and they’d—on their drilling sites, and, yeah. And he was involved with that but never got involved in owning any oil, or— Short discussion on the oil boom derricks ; lumber yard ; oil drilling Oil 1919 Bristow Hospital JI: I’d like to talk to you about the hospital. DB: Oh, I’d love to hear about the hospital. JI: We had a clinic in Bristow. Dr. Cowart and Dr. Sisler kept this clinic going. It was two story, their offices were downstairs and upstairs there was a half a dozen beds, upstairs. And they served Bristow. If—if you had a child born downstairs, then you had to get people to help carry mama and the baby upstairs. And there’s no elevators. I mean, it was up a narrow stairway. All of my children were born there, in fact. Discussion on the history of the Bristow Hospital Don Lewis ; Dr. Cowart ; Dr. Sisler ; Henry Lamb ; Hill-Burton Act ; hospital ; Johnny Horany ; Lawrence Jones ; memorial ; Mike Jones ; Roland Hotel ; Veterans of Foreign Wars ; VFW ; World War II Hill-Burton Act ; hospital ; VFW ; World War II 2496 Restaurants in Bristow and Closing JI: Oh, no, that—you know, in the period that I was growing up, there was Highway 66, and it carried a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. And we had three eating establishments here. The Anchor was built out on Highway 66 in my time. The Hamburger King is where the restaurant is there on South Main. DB: Beach House. JI: And then, on up towards Fifth Street was the J& ; J Café. And the J& ; J Café—the people traveling from—between the cities always made a stop in Bristow for lunch or something like that—it was very— DB: About halfway. Discussion of the restaurants in Bristow and closing comments Anchor ; Beach House ; Hamburger King ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jack Abraham ; Jack and Joe Lee ; Route 66 Anchor ; Hamburger King ; Route 66 DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is July 8, 2020, and I am sitting here with Joe Ihle in his home in Bristow, Oklahoma, who is going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Okay! Let' ; s begin. What was your name when you were born? JI: What was my name? DB: Mmm-hmm [affirming]. JI: Joe Ihle! (laughing) DB: No, middle name--just Joe Ihle? JI: Alfred is my middle name. DB: Joe, not Joseph? JI: Yeah, Joseph. DB: Joseph Alfred Ihle. JI: Yes. DB: And when were you born? JI: August 7, 1922. DB: Were you--and you were born in Bristow? JI: Yes. DB: Were you born at home? JI: In a home, yes. DB: In your home. Your parents' ; names? JI: My parent--my dad' ; s name was Joseph Alfred, and my mother' ; s name was Iva Mae (ph). DB: Iva Mae (ph). Do you remember when they were married? JI: No. DB: No. And-- JI: I wasn' ; t here yet. DB: (laughing) Good answer. How--you are out of how many children? How many brothers and sisters did you have? JI: I had one brother and one sister. DB: One brother and one sister. Do you remember what your father did for a living? JI: He was a manager of the lumber yard here in Bristow. DB: Manager of the lumber yard. JI: It was during the oil boom, and he furnished the timber to build these rigs over this whole area--had a yard in Bristow and another one in Depew. DB: And your mother, did she work outside the home? JI: No. She had, oh--she was the-- DB: Homemaker. JI: Not until my dad died, she never had worked outside the home. DB: What was the, her--the favorite thing she used to make for you? What was her fav--your favorite thing? JI: Oh, gosh, I--she was a, she was an excellent cook and everything she made was good, I-- DB: Everything she made was good. Okay, and you were married. JI: Yes. DB: And your wife' ; s name? JI: Was Margarie. DB: Margarie. And do you remember your anniversary? JI: No, that' ; s--we got married while I was in the officer school at Quantico, Virginia, in the Marine Corps. And we later--she' ; s the mother of my children, but we later got divorced. And I don' ; t know, I-- DB: Okay. JI: I--don' ; t ask many dates. I don' ; t remember any dates. DB: Okay, that' ; s--that' ; s alright. And you had how many children? JI: I had four children. Two boys and two girls. DB: Two boys and two girls. Okay. Now. Early childhood: what do you remember about growing up? In Bristow? JI: Bristow was really a great place to grow up for kids. You didn' ; t have the problems then with drugs and so on and so forth that you have now. We had a great swimming pool, we had a good school system--really good school system. Good athletic programs. And it was just a--just a good place to grow up. DB: In school, how--I' ; ve seen pictures of old yearbooks. Did--and it looks like people dressed differently when you would' ; ve been in school. So, can you tell a little bit about--I mean, you dressed up to go to school, right? JI: Oh, no, not really dressed up, no. DB: Oh, no? JI: No, no. DB: Not like slacks and shirts? Jeans? You wore jeans? JI: Well, I don' ; t remember wearing jeans as much but there was no uniforms. I don' ; t think jeans were--when I was a boy, was--it isn' ; t nothing like it is today, and the--everything was pretty casual. DB: What did you like about school? JI: That school? DB: Mmm-hmm (affirming). JI: The kids. DB: The kids? What were your favorite subjects? JI: Probably recess. DB: (laughing) JI: I didn' ; t--I was not a good sch--student. But I never did have any problems getting through, but I just didn' ; t--I didn' ; t apply myself. DB: You have a favorite teacher? JI: Well, my favorite teacher would' ; ve been out of high school, his name was Joe Jackson. DB: Joe Jackson. JI: Taught government. And then we had a lot of really good teachers that were really--I mean really sharp teachers. It was a good, good group of them. DB: Good group. High school--where was the high school? JI: Well the high school was there on Ninth and Elm, where they tore that building down three or four years ago--that was the high school. DB: That' ; s where you went to high school? JI: Junior high was just over on Tenth Street, right behind it. And the grade school was just where the grade school is now. DB: But it was a smaller school? JI: Oh, yeah. They would-- DB: Was Washington on the other side--was Washing-- JI: Yes, Washington School was over there, they tore that building down a couple years ago. DB: But was it Washington, or was it the junior college? JI: It was, no--Washington. Junior college was in the high school building-- DB: Ohh. JI: --on the top floor. DB: On the top floor. JI: And--the--most of the teachers taught both junior college and high school. DB: Oh! JI: And the only athletic program we had in junior college was the basketball program. DB: Now, did you play basketball? JI: Yes. DB: What position? JI: I was forward. DB: Forward. JI: To guard-- DB: Whatever they told you to do? JI: Ma' ; am? DB: That' ; s what--whatever they said to do, that' ; s what you played? JI: Well, wherever they didn' ; t--(chuckles)-- DB: Needed you? JI: --needed a poor athlete. (chuckles) DB: Now, and you played football? JI: I, I played at it, yes. DB: You played at it? JI: Yeah. I was very, very small. When I graduated my senior year, I weighed 110 pounds. DB: Oh, my. JI: And was the slowest down the whole thing. So, I--my athletic career wasn' ; t stellar. DB: One hundred and ten pounds! JI: When I was a senior. DB: Wow! And you went--did you go to college? JI: I went to junior college for a year, and then went down to OU. DB: Boomer Sooner! JI: Yep, Boomer Sooner. I had uncles that played down there, that I' ; d been down there a lot of times to college football games, and-- DB: Who was the coach then? JI: At Bristow? DB: No, at OU. JI: Snorter Luster was the coach-- DB: When you went there, when you visited? JI: He was the head, let' ; s see, to start with, and then--I think most of the time I was there. DB: Okay. Who were the coaches that you remember at Bristow? JI: Oh, Mose LeForce. He was the--he coached-- DB: Football? JI: Football, basketball, track, everything. DB: Everything. JI: I mean, it was so different and-- DB: And he was a pretty great guy? JI: Hmm? DB: He was a pretty great guy? JI: Yeah, he was. He was a very, very good coach and--didn' ; t have near the facilities that you have today. Growing up, they thought that a weight program made your muscle bad, and no schools had a weight program, and-- DB: Oh, wow. JI: And-- DB: It' ; s a completely different way of thinking now. When you were growing up, did you live in town or did you live in the country? JI: Lived in town. DB: In town? Is your house still here? JI: Yes. DB: It' ; s still here! Your childhood home. And what do you remember playing with when you were little? Like, did you have a favorite toys, or-- JI: Oh, gosh! We had a great neighborhood--Sherman Smith, Bill Ross, Buddy Brown, Quince Brown, Johnny Raney, it was a great neighborhood-- DB: That was your gang? JI: --and we used to--things was so different that--in the summertime we' ; d just gather the guys together and have--play baseball. Of course during the sch--during the year, we were active at school so we didn' ; t, but--it was a, it was a fun period. DB: No shenanigans? JI: No. As we got older, the swimming pool opened of a morning and stayed open until about--I think was even nine or ten o' ; clock at night. Opened at nine in the morn. And we swam three times a day. We' ; d go out there, and we' ; d come home to eat lunch, and go back out and--Bristow had, I guess, the best group of really strong swimmers anyplace, ' ; cause the--the pool at that time held a million gallons of water-- DB: Oh, wow. JI: And it--the archives' ; d show you, but they--it was built by an Indian. I can' ; t remember his name. And he finally, he gave it to the city and it was just a super place, it-- DB: And they' ; ve--it' ; s still a nice place, but it was a lot bigger then. JI: Oh, it was bigger and a lot more activity. I mean, it, it--there was some of us kind of cent--growin' ; up kind of centered around there. DB: Any other, well--were there any other active spots beside the swimming pool? JI: No, that was the main-- DB: In the summertime. Parks? We still had parks? JI: Yeah, the--had the same parks. DB: The amphitheater, was it there yet? JI: Yes, the amphitheater was there. You know, Eleanor Roosevelt spoke at that amphitheater one time. And there was a colosseum there, a big three story red brick building that is where the parking lot is now. And it served a lot of things over the years. They had a lot of government offices in there, and they had a basketball court. DB: Oh, my gosh. JI: I--I had remembered seeing my mother play in softball--indoor softball in that building. And my dad' ; d taken me to wrestling matches and boxing matches out there. DB: I had no idea there was a--an arena inside there. JI: There was a basketball court. And over the years it got so run down everybody moved out and as we were rebuilding the park, we took the building down. DB: You were part of the park committee? JI: Yes. DB: You were part of the--at one time, when that happened? When I came here in 1981, that building was still there. So I remember that building. JI: Yeah, there was a lot of controversy to taking it down. DB: It had been there a while. JI: Hmm? DB: That happens when a building has been someplace for a long time, always controversy. JI: Well, it--there was a lot of controversy about it, and there was nothing--it was, it was inhabit--I mean, uninhabitable. It was a risk being in it, and--but they liked it because of how old it was and, and that' ; s right--I liked that, but it was an eyesore outside of that, and we finally gave them, I think, six months to come up with a solution for the building, and they even brought a guy in from Washington as far as the historical--and they couldn' ; t do anything with it at the end of the six months. We went ahead and took it down. DB: Tore it down. So--and I know you' ; ve had lots of jobs. JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: You' ; ve--you' ; ve had a lot of work yourself, you' ; ve done a lot of different things. JI: Yes. DB: Through your life, what were some of those things? JI: Well, outside of what I did growing up, you know, after I got out of the Marine Corps we went--we put in a--Pete Folk (ph) and Dick Vining (ph) and myself put in a pecan processing plant. Which was a--wasn' ; t the smartest thing we ever did. DB: (chuckling) JI: We didn' ; t even come close to having the capital to do it, you couldn' ; t possibly do it today with what we had. I mean, they' ; d laugh you out of the building. And we got that in, and it--then a little later, Clyde LeForce, who was playing professional football at the time, bought in with us and we brought the Creek--bought the Creek old-- DB: Mill? JI: Mill. Grain elevator. And which--put us in more jeopardy. DB: (chuckles) JI: And-- DB: You didn' ; t have enough already! JI: Hmm? DB: You didn' ; t have enough already-- JI: Yeah. DB: --you had to get into something else. JI: And we--when we got the mill, we went into the raw fur business, buying raw fur during trapping season. Mink, muskrat, ' ; coon, opossum, skunk--all of, all of the furs in Oklahoma. Which is a real growing concern at--I mean, it--there' ; s--there' ; s a lot of trappers that that was their livelihood during the winter. And we got into that and grew that, we were the largest fur buyers in the state. And that was a very interesting business. But as time has gone by, there' ; s, there' ; s not hardly any market for your-- DB: Hmm-mm (agreeing no). JI: At one time a good mink, buck mink, would bring forty-five to fifty dollars. And there' ; s just--times were a lot different, lot harder then and there' ; s a lot of people that trapped for a living, so--but now there' ; s no demand for that. Which really shows up in the country, now--we' ; ve got ' ; coons and opossum and the skunk and they just overrun you and are a problem, but they will be forever. DB: Forever. JI: Unless their fur got to be worth something. DB: So, a lot of your work was agricultural? JI: Yes. I got really interested at--through the pecan business. I was doing business with growers around the state. And I got really interested, and I love the outdoors. So I found this land in the southeast corner of the county that' ; d been a--for sale for years and years and years. And nobody was interested in it, it was basically a jungle. And that changed my life. I started with clearing the land and did most of it by hand. And I started establishing a pecan operation down there, growing pecans. DB: Oh. I didn' ; t know that! JI: I still, I still have that land. And-- DB: A few trees left? JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: A few trees left? JI: Oh, we--we cleared out all of the native timber, and even the pecans, and then as time went by, well we thinned those pecan trees out, and then we' ; ve planted a whole lot of trees since. DB: So you still--that' ; s still an operation? JI: Oh, yeah, that' ; s--that' ; s my--everything I do now is tied to that. I' ; ve sold everything else. I started an equipment company back there. We got where we could produce pecans, but you just--the hand labor was gone. You couldn' ; t really--so I was the--there was different companies trying to develop or manufacture a--a pecan harvester. And these are very difficult conditions that you do that in. Nothing' ; s been successful but one--I was the contact person in Oklahoma for this company and one year they came through and they had a machine that would work. I mean that--we tried it and it would work. So I set up an equipment company. I got a franchise on that harvester. And then we' ; d look for tree shakers and sprayers and chemicals and all that, and I developed that into a--we covered all of Oklahoma and parts of Kansas, Missouri, and Texas. And that was a--my son has a cut in that, he bought that, and--my son Bill--he' ; s developed it a long ways past where I was, so he-- DB: And that' ; s Pecan & ; Ag? JI: Yes. DB: Let' ; s see, we covered school. Were you a member of any club or organization in school? JI: In school? I don' ; t--DeMolay. DB: Do what? JI: DeMolay. DB: I don' ; t know what that is. JI: It' ; s a youth organization of the Masons. DB: Oh! JI: And the DeMolay was for boys and Rainbow for the girls. And-- DB: So are you still a Mason? JI: No, I never did become a Mason. DB: You never did become-- JI: But my dad had been at the highest--as far as you can go in that. But-- DB: My dad was-- JI: Forty-second degree, I believe it was. DB: My dad only got to, like, thirty-something degree. But--did you pack your lunch when you went to elementary school? JI: I' ; m sorry? DB: Did you pack your lunch when you went to elementary school? JI: No. I lived within four blocks of the school and I walked home for lunch, and--this business of buses and people riding and having cars and stuff--(chuckles) DB: It wasn' ; t like that. JI: There is more kids that' ; s got cars driving to school now in the high school than there was when I was at OU. You had to have a permit to park down there and there' ; s more cars here than there was down there during the school year. DB: Wow. JI: I mean, it' ; s just so different. So different. DB: But ya' ; ll had a car--your parents had a car. JI: Oh, yeah. But kids walked from Washington School to over here--I mean didn' ; t nobody thought anything about it. You just went in time, and-- DB: You just went. JI: It' ; s just different, I mean you just didn' ; t think about it-- DB: --You just, yeah, it' ; s just different. Okay, let' ; s see--what--we could' ; ve talked a little bit about how people dressed. Pretty much--we talked about how people dressed. Pretty casual. JI: That was pretty casual. There wasn' ; t-- DB: I remember when I moved here in ' ; 81, like, the women wore dresses to work, there were--we didn' ; t wear slacks, but some in other places there were, so I guess maybe that was a little different. JI: Oh, you know, for many years there weren' ; t any shorts. You know, today, shorts is the dress of everybody, just about, during the summertime. DB: Absolutely. JI: And some people, because of their business, don' ; t wear shorts, but they do as soon as they get off. I mean, it' ; s just a--and they just weren' ; t a popular item at the time. DB: Mmm-hmm. JI: And-- DB: But everything seems a little bit more casual now. JI: Yeah, and probably more casual in Bristow than they would be in Tulsa. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. (Phone buzzing in background) JI: Ahh, I can' ; t-- DB: Is that your phone? JI: Yeah. DB: Do I need to go get it? JI: Naw. DB: Okay. JI: If they want me, they' ; ll call back. DB: Well now, I know you go to the Methodist Church. Did you always go to the Methodist Church? JI: Yes. My mother was very, very devout Christian and we were in church twice on Sunday and once during the week. Every Sunday school--I mean the whole-- DB: Every--when the door was open, you were there. JI: And--yeah, and there was no picture shows on Sunday or anything like that until finally it got, the pressure got--she backed off of that. (laughs) DB: (laughs) She said go do! Do what you want to do! Let' ; s see. So, really no--I' ; d like, not really hard times growing up? Like, Christmases or out of work times, or-- JI: Oh, we didn' ; t have--you might have called it hard times today, but we didn' ; t consider it hard times. They--some families had a whole lot more money than the majority of others but I don' ; t know--we just didn' ; t pay any attention to it. It was just--it was-- DB: I--I think I get it. We were very middle-class, we never wanted for anything, but we--there were others who probably--who I know had more, but we were fine. JI: That' ; s exactly the way it was then. The most of us were middle-class and, and--there' ; s always gonna be people--be people with more. DB: Mmm-hmm. Always. Always. Did you ride the train? Did you ride the train? JI: Well, hitchhiked more than riding the train. We' ; d--we rode the train maybe if we were alone, but I can' ; t ever remember taking a family trip on a train. I took the train home when I' ; d--had enlisted in the Marine Corps and when I found out, when I was going in on active duty I left school and I rode the train home then. That' ; s the only time I ever rode in my life! DB: From Norman to Bri--from Norman or from-- JI: From Norman. DB: From Norman, home. JI: Yeah. And you didn' ; t think anything about hitchhiking. DB: Huh. JI: Today I wouldn' ; t pick a hitchhiker up for anything in the world, and I thought I' ; d never see that time. But I just wouldn' ; t do it today. DB: Umm-- JI: And-- DB: --first time you flew on a plane? JI: First time was when the Marines flew me. (chuckles) DB: (laughs) Didn' ; t have a choice. And you were in--so you were about eighteen or nineteen when you enlisted? You were in college? JI: I was probably nineteen. DB: About nineteen. And-- JI: It was the thing to do. There was none of this--I' ; d say ninety-nine percent of the guys would' ; ve been heartbroken if they couldn' ; t get in, and they couldn' ; t serve. There might' ; ve been one percent that--or less that they did not want to. And then those that were physically unfit that couldn' ; t serve because of their physical conditions, they were really heartbroken. I mean it was a, it was a completely different thing and it was a--the war was a--just everybody was involved. Everybody was--the people at home suffered greatly. They--it was--everybody participated. DB: Your brothers--your brother--every--were you the only one-- JI: He had a--he had a--he had a, a physical condition and couldn' ; t-- DB: He couldn' ; t do it. Now had your father served? Had your father served? JI: My father? No, he was in-between. DB: He was in-between. Let' ; s see. Do you remember any segregation in town? Any segregation in town? JI: Oh, when I was growing up the schools were segregated. And all the time I was in school. And-- DB: Did they have their own-- JI: An incident that changed my mind completely on this subject happened when we were putting in a Teen Town. Put in a Teen Town and it was, it was segregated. And there got to be a problem over that when they integrated the school. So at a board meeting when we were trying to decide what we were going to do, make a decision--Richard Stromme (ph) who was a high school athlete at the time, came in--we had kids in talking, and he says, I don' ; t know what the problem is. I can still remember him saying-- (cell phone music playing in background) DB: Sorry. JI: I can still hear Richard saying, You expect us to go out. We get in a dressing room. We dress with ' ; em. We go out, we play football with ' ; em. We come back in and we undress, shoulder to shoulder. We take a shower together. Now are we supposed to--when we walk out of the--are we supposed to say, We' ; ll see you tomorrow, we' ; re going to Teen Town and we' ; ll just see you in the morning. And that changed my mind completely on the subject and-- DB: Absolutely. JI: It was--it was absolutely right, no question about it, and the integration in Bristow was as--went off as easy as it did any place in the country, I believe, as far as any memory I have of it. We had two or three black elderly guys that were very, very prominent through the black neighborhood, and who also had been involved in the white world. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. JI: And they--they was just invaluable in this thing. I don' ; t remember any problems happening, any riots or any--anything over it. DB: Well, that' ; s-- JI: I think it went off easier here than any place. Which it should' ; ve been-- DB: Too bad there weren' ; t cameras so that we could do that now. JI: Isn' ; t that the truth. DB: Let' ; s see. Any oil drilling in your family? An oil people in your family? JI: Oil? Oh, my dad was involved with all of the rig building back there-- DB: Oh, yeah. JI: --during the boom. That' ; s when your derricks were all built--they had a rig, you know, timber and they' ; d--on their drilling sites, and, yeah. And he was involved with that but never got involved in owning any oil, or-- DB: The production or the drilling. Well, and then he would' ; ve had that lumber yard right in the middle of the boom. JI: Yep. DB: So he would' ; ve done really well. Supplying the wood. Well-- JI: I' ; d like to talk to you about the hospital. DB: Oh, I' ; d love to hear about the hospital. JI: We had a clinic in Bristow. Dr. Cowart and Dr. Sisler kept this clinic going. It was two story, their offices were downstairs and upstairs there was a half a dozen beds, upstairs. And they served Bristow. If--if you had a child born downstairs, then you had to get people to help carry mama and the baby upstairs. And there' ; s no elevators. I mean, it was up a narrow stairway. All of my children were born there, in fact. But anyway, when we got back after the war, the Veterans of Foreign Wars did not have a chapter here. And we started a Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, and it was extremely active. The American Legion at that time wanted a separate operation, so they kept theirs. The golf course--the country club--had been turned into a cow pasture during the war, the building had sat there and was just completely--just completely run down. And the guys that--we decided to take that golf course over. Don Lewis' ; s folks--Don Lewis was one of the guys who were involved and we later had his parents in to run the place. But anyway, we just started and did a lot of the work on the fairways and the greens. They were just old Bermuda grass greens and--but it was a place to play. And then we did a tremendous amount of work getting the clubhouse back in shape. All of the members--people dreaded to see us come because we always had three or four books of chances on something we were raffling off and that' ; s--and we rebuilt it with that kind of money. I mean, it was all done and--there weren' ; t contributions in the way there are today. These guys--all of the guys were--wanted some kind of a memorial to the people that had given their lives and the ones that had served during, during the war. And of course, all the ideas, you know--put a monument up here, a statute, or this kind of a thing. And we wanted something better. The government had a hospital program at the time--it was the Hill-Burton Act, that you signed up for. There were so many people that signed up for it, you just had to wait your turn. But we did all the paperwork knowing that when we got the chance, if it--when our name come, would come up--that we did not have the lead in our britches to get this thing done. We knew that. But nobody else had started it, so we got it started. When the--well, we got word then from the people that' ; s running this, well we-- DB: The act, or whatever-- JI: That our due day--I mean, that we were accomp--we were approved. And we had to give them an answer by X whatever the date was. Well, we started promoting it. And it was so different then. Your Main Street was full, and it was individually owned and they--they were the fa--the city fathers and, and the--so we got involved with those guys. It might' ; ve been through the chamber or something, but it was--we had all the business--most of the businessmen in Bristow were involved on that end. And we kept promoting this thing to them. And they kept saying, You know that' ; s a wonderful idea but it' ; s too big for Bristow, we can' ; t do this. And we' ; d go back and we' ; d try again. Well it came down, tomorrow' ; s the day we' ; ve got to let ' ; em know we' ; re gonna do this, had one last meeting with them. And it was in the Roland Hotel. There was something going on in the ballroom, so we met on the stairs. Now here' ; s all these business guys sittin' ; up there and we' ; ve made our last, we' ; ve made our last approach to it, and it just--it was just a negative attitude. And finally Lawrence Jones, who was Mike Jones' ; grandfather, got up and he was--oh, up the stairs a way, and he went and got down in front and he turned around, and he--he was a great big good lookin' ; guy, smart as thunder, and he gave the best speech you ever heard in your life and he shamed these guys to who laid the chunk. I mean, it was no--. DB: (laughing) JI: It was--he laid it on ' ; em. I mean, good. He sat down, this thing passed, a hundred percent, a committee was formed, that the VFW accepted this the next day and the ball was turned over to the committee. The next--within a day or two, we were going up and down the street and getting fifty dollars--fifty-dollar contribution from the business people for the--to get enough money to operate to get a bond issue. And nobody--everybody kicked in the fifty. I mean there wasn' ; t anything, they had it, and the bond issue was promoted. One of the best promotions you ever saw in your life. And passed with ninety-nine--as I recall, ninety-nine point something of the votes. I mean it was just overwhelming. DB: Wow. Wow. JI: And it was built as a memorial to the--to the people that' ; d served in, in World War II. DB: Wow. JI: They' ; ve gotten away from that now, but the VFW started this thing, Johnny Horany (ph) is the guy that, that made--that brought this up at one of our meetings. Said, I think--what about this? What about if we built a hospital? This--you know, We' ; ve got this down there, but what if we-- DB: Brought it here. JI: And-- DB: That' ; s amazing. JI: Yeah, it is. It was--it was a great story, and it will be lost unless it goes into the-- DB: Yes. JI: All the dates and the figures and everything can, can be-- DB: I' ; m sure there' ; s-- JI: --gotten from the newspaper archives. They, they were one hundred percent supportive. DB: So our build--our hospital is what was built-- JI: That was it. DB: --because of that? JI: Ma' ; am? DB: Because of that bond issue and that' ; s our building that we have right now? JI: That' ; s our building! That--that was it! DB: Wow. JI: The doctor building wasn' ; t included. But about--I don' ; t know, I believe it was the guys that these--superintendent out there was Henry Lamb, and he told us that unless we got more doctors, we just didn' ; t have enough doctors, but they didn' ; t have any place to operate and they had to have support. So the hospital board went in and, three or four years later, and had a--raised the money and, and built the doctor' ; s building that' ; s there now. DB: That is just--that is a good story. That is amazing. JI: And that--that is factual. I mean, I-- DB: I can just see those businessmen: on the stairs, in the hotel, because there wasn' ; t a room--it was something going on. JI: We were sittin' ; on the stairs, and it, it-- DB: And the guy got up and said (pounding sound). JI: Oh, he got up and-- DB: (laughing) JI: He laid it on ' ; em. (chuckles) I was ready to-- DB: I like what you said, that he shamed ' ; em and--you said it a different way, but, I think I got it. That was a--that' ; s a good story. No more good stories like that? JI: Oh, no, that--you know, in the period that I was growing up, there was Highway 66, and it carried a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. And we had three eating establishments here. The Anchor was built out on Highway 66 in my time. The Hamburger King is where the restaurant is there on South Main. DB: Beach House. JI: And then, on up towards Fifth Street was the J& ; J Café. And the J& ; J Café--the people traveling from--between the cities always made a stop in Bristow for lunch or something like that--it was very-- DB: About halfway. JI: And they barbecued their own meat out there, had a big barbecue pit built out beside, behind. The Hamburger King--oh, I can' ; t think of his name. But there' ; s a Hamburger King in Shawnee, Oklahoma right now. DB: I didn' ; t know that. JI: You go in and they got pictures of this guy, and it was an offshoot from Bristow. DB: I did not know that! JI: There was a long counter in there, and--what was his name? He sat with his cash till in the middle of this counter and one end--on the south end--you could see the cook down there and he' ; s--that' ; s where he cooked the hamburgers. And he could sit there and watch up and down and he always had a cigar--always had a cigar. Most of the time it wasn' ; t lit. Sold ten cent hamburgers and got wealthy. DB: Wow. JI: After the wa--when we came back, one of my friends bought it. (laughs) He put in a club back there, got to building it to put in a club and everything and dress things up and had different venues and went broke! (laughs) DB: (laughing) JI: (claps) DB: Should' ; ve gone back to ten cent hamburgers! JI: Oh, yeah, oh that story tickles me to death. DB: Oh, that is funny! JI: But it wasn' ; t anything to see, see the pro wrestlers loved the Anchor. It wasn' ; t anything to go in there and there' ; d be guys that' ; d been down there killing each other on the mat, rode together back to Tulsa, and they' ; d stop in there and they' ; d eat. Everybody' ; s fun and games. (chuckles) And it was a--and Jack Abraham is one that owned the J& ; J Cafe--named after his two boys. Jack and Joe Lee (ph), but it was--it was an up--upbeat restaurant. I mean it was first class. It was in--they got a lot, a lot of traffic between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. DB: Those were good times. JI: Oh, yeah. DB: Good times. Well, Joe, I appreciate your time. And this is gonna be an important part of the archives. It will be uploaded eventually to the archives at Oklahoma State where people will be able to go, if they' ; re researching Bristow history, and listen to some of your stories. And if you don' ; t have anything else-- JI: Debbie, I can' ; t think of anything else that-- DB: You could probably tell me stories all day. JI: If somebody could say something then that would bring back a memory and--we just had a, it was just a good place to grow up and, and then to start a family. It was just a, a--so different than it is today. DB: Yes. Well again, thank you very much. JI: Now I can talk off the record. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=Joe_Ihle.xml Joe_Ihle.xml
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Joseph Alfred "Joe" Ihle
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OHP2-0003
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History in Bristow
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2020-07-08
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Ed Cadenhead
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Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman
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Lebanon
Lebanese
1979
Deeb Slyman
Annie Slyman
Tex Slyman
Nellie Slyman
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5.4 June 21, 1979 OHP-0022 Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex OHP-0022 00:30:51 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Lebanon Lebanese 1979 Deeb Slyman Annie Slyman Tex Slyman Nellie Slyman Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman Ed Cadenhead MP3 1:|78(2)|99(3)|125(3)|146(9)|168(1)|191(4)|209(2)|226(4)|270(6)|298(2)|298(3)|357(11)|394(3)|428(13)|481(2)|543(3)|614(6)|655(10)|707(4)|744(2)|769(1)|796(13)|835(3)|876(2)|912(2)|940(9)|970(10)|993(14)|1016(5)|1045(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0022 Deeb Family.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and First Days In America EC: Mrs.— TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman . EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I— EC: (Chuckling) No, I can’t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now—your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that’s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis . EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. Arabic ; Bristow ; Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Main Street ; Massachsetts Arrival In America ; Arrival In Bristow ; Mr Slyman's Grocery Store https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873405/deeb-slyman-hoyek Mrs. Deeb Slyman's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26863670/ellis-slyman-hoyek Ellis Slyman Hoyek's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave 334 Arrival In Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul—the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for—for four months. So— EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything—can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice’s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. The Slyman's arrival in Bristow and Annie's struggle getting in Alice Coby ; Bristow ; France ; Frank Mike ; Lebanon ; Paris ; Train Depot Annie Slyman stuck in Paris ; Arrival In Bristow 469 Lebanese Families In Bristow EC: What was the name of your village in— AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That’s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of—if not all the Lebanese families here—came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let’s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that’s the old-timers. Where did—where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. The Slyman's talk about other Lebanese families in Bristow and the surrounding areas Bdadoun ; Creek County ; Drumright ; Eliases ; Farhouds ; Fogaley ; Frank Forey ; Horany ; Howayek ; Juneau ; Khazin ; Labanon ; League of Americanized Syrians ; Marjayoun ; Marquettes ; Naifeh ; Oilton ; Oklahoma City ; Paul Gillismon ; Sam Beshara ; Shama ; Shamrock ; Tulsa ; Wabisaaiour Lebanese Families https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21579898/sam-beshara Sam Beshara's Grave 1059 Experiences In Bristow EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there’s more Greek Orthodox— EC: Oh really! NS: I don’t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um— I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S— H-O-M? The Sylman's experiences and stories from growing up and living in Bristow Americanized ; Anti-Catholic ; Anti-foreign ; Catholic ; Greek Orthodox ; Madellia Hamra ; Oil Boom ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; Uphus Abraham Experiences in Bristow ; Religion 1474 Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty— 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn’t hurt em’— it didn’t hurt em’ a bit. EC: What— NS: My husband was— EC: Yeah— NS: a— he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow Airplane ; Bristow ; Depew ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; Grocery Store ; League of Americanized Syrians Growing Up in Bristow ; Holidays in Bristow ; Raising Children In Bristow 35.834122, -96.394409 17 Nellie Slyman's Home This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Interviewer: Ed Cadenhead (EC) Interviewee: Mrs. Annie Slyman (AS), Edmond " ; Tex" ; Slyman (TS), Nellie Slyman (NS) Date of Interview: June 21, 1979 Location: Unknown Transcriber: Melissa Holderby and Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Length: 00:00-30:51 Abstract: This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb' ; s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. EC: Mrs.-- TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I-- EC: (Chuckling) No, I can' ; t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now--your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that' ; s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis. EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. TS: (Inaudible in background) EC: Right. Well what kind of business were they in when they first came here? AS: (Inaudible in background) EC: A general grocery store? Yeah. TS: When they first came, what did he do? AS: (in heavily accented English) When he first came this way he used to have a little place downtown, called it (indecipherable). He used to have little (indecipherable). He said he ran it for (indecipherable). NS: When he first came, he was down and out. And I think he had around twenty-five dollars in money. So he goes in--goes into this little stand down there on Fifth Street somewhere. Was it on Fifth Street, down there where the old store was? AS: Huh? NS: He started on Fifth Street? You know, where the-- AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Oh, he started on Main Street. AS: Yeah, on Main Street. NS: Oh! Well, I-- AS: He used to (Indecipherable) and he worked with Ed Abraham. Then he bought the place from Ed Abraham for fifteen dollars. NS: Fifteen dollars. Oh. EC: So, the real--the real reason he came was because of Abraham? NS: He came when he was real young. Why did Uncle Deeb come to this country? Because he couldn' ; t live--make a living over there? AS: When he come from (indecipherable) country? EC: Yeah. NS: Why? Do you know? AS: I don' ; t know him that time. I don' ; t know. NS: Oh, you don' ; t know why, he just--they were young--the way I understand, they were young, adventuresome guys. They wanted to come to this world. And they came, and he lived in Massachusetts for a bunch of years picking cranberries. ' ; Cause he said, We used to go out there and pick cranberries and we didn' ; t even have anything to keep our feet warm. We' ; d put gunny sacks and paper sacks on our feet to keep us warm. These are stories I' ; ve heard from them. EC: Sure, sure. NS: And then, when they did come to this part of Oklahoma--I don' ; t know what made ' ; em come to this part of Oklahoma. But--you know, she' ; s talking about this fifteen-dollar business he started out with: he wanted the--the workers around there wanted to eat. So he' ; d get up and he' ; d make a pot of stew or soup. Every day he' ; d make a pot, and they' ; d come in and eat with the family. He started a little business like that. And as far as I know, he went in from that into what they called a mercantile business, with Mike--or Frank Mike (ph). And they had a nice--one of the best stores in town then. With Frank Mike (ph). But I don' ; t know of the years. See, this is all before my day. EC: Yeah, sure. NS: All I know is historical, you know. EC: Well-- NS: And-- EC: Yeah, go ahead. NS: And they run this--these stores. And of course, you know, it was like--you buy now and pay when the cotton come in, you know. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: That' ; s the way it was up until--I' ; m gonna say in--let me see. After he got through with Frank Mike (ph), he went into a business by himself down on Fifth Street. And he was still catering to the farmer then. And-- TS: To the Indians and the farmers-- NS: Well, Indian--well, anyway all these people that can' ; t buy--can' ; t pay but once or twice a year, you know. TS: Mmm-hmm. NS: And he would give them credit for the whole year--big families come in, buy groceries. And he had dry goods, too. Like overalls and you know--whatever they used TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: --gloves and stuff that they used--the farmers would use. And they' ; d come and pay him once or twice a year. There' ; s one thing about Mr. Slyman that he didn' ; t do but other business people here in town did--he did not foreclose on anybody. He did not take anybody' ; s cow away from them, he did not take anybody' ; s horse away from them because they couldn' ; t pay their bill. He just--Okay, son, you do the best you can and pay me when you can. Of course, when he finally did finish his business, he had enough money--if he had the cash he could' ; ve built half of Bristow. But he did not fore--he wasn' ; t--he didn' ; t foreclose on anybody. EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul--the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for--for four months. So-- EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything--can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice' ; s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: And I come home that night. On twenty-six of September. EC: Uh-huh! NS: She was stranded in Paris for--how long did you have to stay in Paris when you--coming from--you had to stay four months in Paris. Because she wasn' ; t American citizen and he wasn' ; t, either. And they kept her in Paris. And he came on to Bristow. AS: (Inaudible in background.) So we brought--so, Slyman, he had a cousin in our country, he was like (indecipherable). So one time Slyman said--we used to write letters to the our country to see if we can come. So (indecipherable), he sent word to the American consul in Beirut. And told him that if he can permit me to come. The consul in Beirut, he wrote to the consul in France-- in Paris. So they let me come. EC: What was the name of your village in-- AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That' ; s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of--if not all the Lebanese families here--came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let' ; s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that' ; s the old-timers. Where did--where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. NS: He came from Bdadoun, too? AS: Bdadoun. NS: Joe? AS: Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. NS: Mmm-hmm. AS: --family-- TS: Oh, they' ; re all from-- AS: And the Eliases. They' ; re all from Bdadoun. TS: Well, (inaudible). AS: (Indecipherable.) TS: (Indecipherable.) AS: Bdadoun. EC: I--you probably can answer this, I don' ; t know. It' ; s not unusual, of course, for a number of people from--immigrating to this country to come to one place because they have friends or relatives, you know. But is it unusual in Oklahoma to find this many Lebanese families in one place? Or are you aware of other places in the state where there are-- NS: I mean, this time, Oklahoma don' ; t have anything compared to the east. EC: Right. But what about Oklahoma, though? Are there other centers-- NS: Oh, other? Oh--in Oklahoma--in Oklahoma City there' ; s a big bunch of Lebanese. EC: Oh, there are? NS: In fact, they--part of ' ; em' ; s lived here in Bristow. EC: Well, but they--some of them came from Bristow. Some of the ones in Tulsa came from Bristow. NS: Yeah. Uh-huh (agreeing). They came--they (indecipherable). But this wa--this--into that like--they started the--these old timers started first on cotton. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: (Inaudible in background) --my husband came to Creek County. But talk about--they came, then they started speculating, these--they took chances. They couldn' ; t write their own name. Joe Abraham was a millionaire--he died as a millionaire--but he could not write his name. He has X' ; s on there. Deeb--that' ; s her husband--my husband' ; s uncle. He could write his name--I couldn' ; t find anything with his signature on it around here, but there is some writing in there, but it' ; s all in Arabic. He could barely write his name. He actually--before he died--he was ninety-some years old before he died--he got to where he could read the newspaper. And he' ; d negotiate all his--he did all his bookwork himself. No--no bookkeepers. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And business. And--but they' ; re all self-educated, on their own. They didn' ; t none of them go to school. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: Not even in Lebanon, I think. Now I don' ; t know about Joe Abraham, if he had any Leban--any education from there. He came awful young. Joe and--well that was Herb. Herb could tell you more about his dad. EC: Well, I--I was still kind of wonder--why they' ; re-- NS: Why, why they chose this part-- EC: Why--or is that unusual? Are there other communities in the state now-- NS: No.EC: Where you can find-- NS: No, no-- TS: It seems like one at a time they followed each other-- EC: Right. TS: And just, I think, their philosophy was just--this is kind of a new territory, territory -(indecipherable), and they did a lot of--lot of trading with the Indians and the people around here. And they were--most of the tradition of the Lebanese people then was very business-minded. EC: Yeah. TS: I mean, they didn' ; t believe in an eight-hour day, they believed in eighteen-hour-a-day, work day. And this is what the one thing that they succeeded in was hard work. And their--their enjoyment was getting with each other. EC: Sure. TS: And having a--reminiscing the old--the old country more than anything. EC: Yeah. TS: That was their entertainment. NS: They formed what they called the League of Americanized Syrians there. That was--that was just some organization like Rotary Club or-- TS: Here in Bristow. NS: They had--yeah, it was in Bristow. And of course the League of Americanized Syrians would come from Drumright. Would come from Oklahoma City. They would come from Oilton. And Shamrock. Now, see--there was some Lebanese (indecipherable). That I know of. Of course, most of the Lebanese came in--they were mostly mercantile people. Now, the ones in Drumright--they had what you' ; d call a dry goods store. The (indecipherable), they call ' ; em. TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: There used to be Farhouds (ph). There used to be Marquettes (ph). I could--now these are all from Drumright. I' ; m from Drumright. EC: Oh, are you? NS: I was born in Pennsylvania but I was raised in--reared in Drumright. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And then-- EC: Well, now--help me with Lebanese names. The name Fogaley is-- NS: I came from the Fogaley family. My father-- EC: But that' ; s more like a--a clan? NS: Oh, oh--okay. EC: Yeah. NS: Fogaley is like this one family back there when in, maybe the 1500s. A whole family of boys named Fogaley. And they all went out, you know, and had their own families. Now that is what we call the clan of the family--like the Naifeh family-- EC: Right. NS: --I don' ; t know if you' ; re heard of the Naifeh family-- EC: Yes, I know. Yes. NS: Okay. Now that' ; s where the Fogaley' ; s from. But here' ; s how we lost our names is every time a child is born, they were named by their father' ; s first name. My father' ; s name was Henry Joseph. Now, he was Henry Joseph and his father' ; s name was Habib Fogaley (ph), see. So that goes back, right now--I lost Fogaley --the situation, by--I was raised a Joseph. EC: Now, the Slymans were not Fogaley. NS: Slymans were Howayek. H-O-W--how do you spell it? H-O-W-Y-E-K. Y-E-- TS: Y-E. NS: Y-E. TS: I just repeat it how they told me to spell it, so I don' ; t know if it' ; s H-O-Y-E-K. NS: H-O-Y-E-K. TS: And I don' ; t know if I made it right or not. NS: Mm-hmm. EC: Well-- NS: And that' ; s (indecipherable). TS: See, what I understood is the name Slyman came-- NS: From the (indecipherable) TS: From--was Uncle Deeb' ; s dad' ; s name. And our name was-- EC: Okay-- TS: And he put down Deeb Slyman when he came into the country as his name. EC: Okay. NS: And then--then he always added Howayek. Now, when he wrote papers for the-- TS: When he wrote papers to the old country, he always used the Deeb Slyman Howayek, okay. EC: So, at one point I was told, and maybe you know something different--there were twenty-seven Lebanese families in Bristow. TS: Oh, I (indecipherable) AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Now? EC: No at some point. TS: At one time? EC: Yeah, but most of those were then, Fogaley' ; s. NS: Fogaley clan! EC: Yeah. Most of them-- NS: We have the--we have the Feghalis and Slymans and then what--Fogaley' ; s and Slymans, now they call it Feghalis--some go by Feghali, some go by Fogaley. The real--the first was F-O-G-A-L-E-Y. The Fogaley family. And that' ; s what--see, my father was a Fogaley. EC: Right. NS: And--Deeb was not a Fogaley. He was a Howayek. EC: Yeah. NS: And I don' ; t know-- TS: Howayek, yeah. The Howayek name in the old country was a very dominant name. EC: Right. TS: It was a very strong name. AS: Howayek--(indecipherable) NS: Patriarch. TS: It was--yeah. Well Khazin (ph) Annie was a Khazin (ph). Annie was-- NS: Political. TS: She was of a more of a political family-- from a political family-- the Khazin family. EC: Right, I see. TS: The Howayek name and family was a-- is a large family. NS: They had a (Inaudible) was well known was because they had a patriarch-- Howayek (Inaudible). EC: Now then-- let' ; s see. (Inaudible talking in the background) AS: (Indecipherable) EC: The Shamas' ; s are folks? NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks. EC: They' ; re what? AS: They' ; re from Bdadoun. NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks (inaudible). TS: (Indecipherable) NS: From another part in Lebanon like-- AS: (Inaudible). EC: The Eliases? AS: The Eliase' ; s are from Bdadoun. EC: They' ; re-- NS: They' ; re Fogaley family and they come from Leban. EC: Right-- and then the (Indecipherable) came later. NS: (Indecipherable) I don' ; t know where they' ; re from. EC: From--they' ; re from-- AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph)? AS: From Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: Wabisaaiour (ph) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm, W-A-B-I-S-A-A-I-O-U-R-- Wabisaaiour (ph)-- EC: Alright. NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. EC: Then there were the-- I' ; m trying to think of some of the others families here that I' ; ve-- NS: Oh well-- EC: Beshara' ; sNS: Oh, Sam Beshara! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Sam Beshara. AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Sam Beshara from-- you remember? AS: Sam Beshara and (Indecipherable) Beshara-- NS: (Indecipherable) Beshara They' ; re from Wabi (ph) too? AS: Mmm-hmm. EC: Okay-- and hmm-- AS: (Inaudible) NS: Yeah, I know. There' ; s two I' ; m trying to think of some more. EC: You remember some of those other things? NS: Old timers (Inaudible) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm. Okay you got anything on the Horany' ; s yet? EC: No. NS: The Horany' ; s were Marjayoun. Weren' ; t they? Horany' ; s! AS: Horany' ; s? NS: Yeah. AS: From Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. AS: (Inaudible). EC: Now what about, Forey (ph)? NS: Umm Annie, how about Frank Forey (ph)? AS: Frank Forey (ph) is from Bdadoun. NS: He' ; s from Bdadoun? See Frank Forey (ph) would be a cousin-- umm an uncle to Paul Gillismon (ph). Have you talked to Paul Gillismon? (ph) EC: No, I have not. NS: He may not give you too much history. No one will give you more about them. See they' ; re related. EC: (Indaudible) NS: Uh-huh. Paul Gillismon' ; s (ph) mother was Joe Abraham' ; s sister. EC: Okay-- Yeah. NS: Now, let' ; s see. I was trying to think of who else. EC: I' ; m trying to think of some of the other names that might-- NS: Me too. AS: (Inaudible) EC: Oh yes! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh! AS: And then-- when the consul (Indecipherable) and he told the consul when you were away from Lebanon we used to make Lebanon women work, but when you come to Lebanon you play to (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there' ; s more Greek Orthodox-- EC: Oh really! NS: I don' ; t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um-- I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S-- H-O-M? TS: H-O-M-S-E-Y. NS: Uh-Huh, they have the-- TS: AMC NS: AMC TS: You know that-- it is called AM-- American EC: Yeah. TS: It used to be called American (Inaudible) but its AMC in Oklahoma City. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: And they have a lot of Bristow-- TS: And they have a lot of Bristow (Indecipherable)--they moved from Bristow to Oklahoma City. EC: Oh, I see. TS: They' ; re very, very special people there. They employed four hundred people in that place. EC: Let' ; s see is the name Hamra-- TS: Hamra. NS: Ok, you' ; re gonna get more information on the Hamra' ; s? EC: Well I just kind of fit them in to this whole-- NS: Yeah I' ; ll tell ya--Madellia Hamra, right now that' ; s the woman-- the daughter. Is running the (Indecipherable) Rainbow Nursing Home, down-- you know. EC: Right, that' ; s where I was headed. NS: Uh huh. EC: Farha? NS: Yeah, the Farha' ; s are-- they' ; re Greek Orthodox from Marjayoun. They came from Marjayoun. TS: Where did the Farha' ; s-- where did the Farha' ; s come from? AS: From (Indecipherable) NS: Annie! The Farha' ; s come from Wabi? AS: The Farha' ; s were from Marjayoun. NS: That' ; s what I thought. AS: (Indecipherable) from Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. EC: Okay. NS: Farha' ; s. EC: Okay, tell me some of your experiences in Bristow. What was life like for you after you came here. AS: Well I (Indecipherable) we don' ; t have it back then (Indecipherable). TS: (Inaudible discussion in background) NS: She had to learn English too. AS: I don' ; t know how to spoke English. EC: Right. AS: They used to (Indecipherable) to ask me something. Do you know English? EC: Mmm-hmm. Well did you work in the store also? AS: No sir. (Indecipherable) then my house work wouldn' ; t get done. EC: Now the oil boom was really over by the time you came here. AS: Yeah. (Indecipherable) 19:55- 20:11- Inaudible NS: Uphus Abraham (ph)? Uphus Abraham (ph)? AS: No. (Indecipherable) NS: Oh! (Indecipherable) Slyman? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Uncle Deeb' ; s? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well that-- I don' ; t know anything about that. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well I' ; ve got a funny story of what happened to Mrs. Horany that' ; s Helen Shamas' ; s (ph) aunt. She came to this-- you know, territory here and she wanted-- wanted a room, just a one room to sleep in. And that was the relation with his dad' ; s sister. Whoever had the house was looking for a bedroom you know and everywhere she goes, in her best English asked for a place to sleep and they would say no room and room in Arabic means Greek Orthodox and she (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) NS: She thought they were telling her that they don' ; t-- that they don' ; t want no Greek Orthodox. EC: I see. NS: (Laughter) that was so funny. EC: In that connection and I' ; m sure this is not an easy kind of a question to answer but from what you have heard or experienced, how much anti-foreign feeling was there in Bristow or anti-Catholic feeling which of course was present all over the country in the 20' ; s-- NS: Well in Drumright when I grew up in school-- EC: Alright-- NS: They isolated us, they didn' ; t like-- they did not like Catholics. Especially if you let em' ; know you' ; re foreign. In school it was very, very hard to make-- EC: Was that true in Bristow as far as you know? NS: Well I-- it wasn' ; t when my kids growing up. Was it Edmond, did you ever hear of that? TS: It wasn' ; t so much so whenever I went to school but I know it was (Indecipherable) EC: Yeah. TS: In the older people that were-- EC: Right. TS: -- foreign-- EC: It' ; s hard to pin down whether this was anti-foreign or anti-Catholic. That' ; s what I' ; m wondering. NS: (Inaudible) TS: That was a real question for a long time. Everyone thought that it was anti-Catholic but there were you know other Catholics in town besides Lebanese people. EC: Right. TS: And so of course we felt like it was a lot of anti-foreign also now one of the reasons was normal human-- EC: Sure, sure. TS: I think-- EC: It wouldn' ; t be unusual. TS: No huh-uh, because of the fact of outsiders coming in (Indecipherable) and they were-- the Lebanese people really did cling together. In fact, they still do to a point. They can-- we have an organization in Tulsa still. It' ; s not as, you know it' ; s not like it was-- very secretive and no one else could get into it, but the Lebanese people had a tendency to stay together because they believed in unity. They believed in-- in trying to work together. Now this was -- I would say this would be the philosophy of the older Lebanese. Now I' ; m talking about my aunt and they had-- EC: Right. TS: -- progressed and you know, you become more Americanized. EC: Yeah-- TS: They changed-- EC: Are you aware-- or have you heard from your aunt or other relatives whether or not any of this carried over into business? For example, did Lebanese families have any more trouble borrowing money, let' ; s say-- at the bank. NS: Oh. TS: No, no-- NS: No, not-- TS: --I don' ; t feel like that. I don' ; t think so. I felt like that there were times that because they were very frugal with their dollars there were times that as time progressed they realized that the Lebanese people were-- they were business minded people-- EC: Right TS: --And this has been kind of a national thing from the old area and I search the web for the whole area-- EC: Sure. TS: --they' ; re very business minded and I think that over a period of years-- I think they had to change-- EC: Right. TS: -- in fact I think there were times (Inaudible) NS: (Inaudible) TS: And it became a-- they became a-- they gained a lot of confidence. EC: Yeah. NS: They had a very good relationship with the banks at that time. I mean because his Uncle Bill-- he' ; s eighty and he built a good relationship. In fact, I think our kids are being helped. Our own-- my generation, my boys are being helped and my children from his reputation when he was there. You know, and the banks and anywhere. EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty-- 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn' ; t hurt em' ; -- it didn' ; t hurt em' ; a bit. EC: What-- NS: My husband was-- EC: Yeah-- NS: a-- he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) NS: (Indecipherable) thirty-five dollars a week and we raised six children. By being very economical and all six-- all four-- the four boys helped down there in the grocery store. If nothing else, just to keep them off the streets. They' ; d dust cans and be sitting in the store helping you know. For maybe a quarter a day or something like that. (Laughter) And I don' ; t know whether-- I don' ; t think it hurt them, as far as I know I don' ; t. Maybe they feel like they got hurt but they didn' ; t have all the luxuries. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. EC: Right. NS: They had their own-- they wanted their own ballgame and ballfield. They formed it themselves, no organize. We didn' ; t have any organize play like they have now. EC: What about special occasions? Did they still have something like Fourth of July picnics and-- NS: Yes. EC: -- parades or-- NS: Uh-Huh EC: --did the circus still come in those days? NS: We didn' ; t have those but we would have a special occasion on the holidays. My own personal family-- let' ; s say. I came from a family of eight brothers and sisters and we managed once or twice a year to get together and there is usually about fifty or sixty of us of immediate family-- that means children and grandchildren, you know-- EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: --In-laws and outlaws and all that. We all have that, and I know-- I was reading about the Naifehs have that too. They call it you know like a convention or something. We don' ; t have-- we plan it at holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving and Easter. We get together-- covered dish dinners and be together. Then of course-- I don' ; t-- I don' ; t know if there' ; s anything organized anymore like that as far as-- EC: I was thinking more-- NS: These oh like the League of Americanized Syrians, they don' ; t have that anymore. EC: I was really thinking of Bristow itself. NS: Of Bristow itself-- EC: Did the city have a Fourth of July-- NS: No we don' ; t have enough-- EC: --picnics and stuff when you came here-- NS: We don' ; t have enough people here anymore to do anything like that. They did at one time we' ; d just go to the artesian wells when I was about fourteen, twelve, ten, eleven years old. See I don' ; t know where the artesian wells-- between here and Depew all I know. (Indecipherable) Best spring water ever came out of it and this whole-- the League of Americanized Syrians would go over there and oh I mean we were about like a hundred of em' ; . Come from all the surrounding areas and spent the whole day on Fourth of July. But that was in the past, I just wanted you to know. EC: What has been some of the things that you remember that were really interesting or funny to you. What' ; s happened to you in Bristow? Anything special that you can think of? AS: No sir. NS: Annie! Well, tell him about the time you flew on the airplane. AS: Huh? NS: Tell him about the airplane! You tell it to me a hundred times. EC: Tell me-- NS: You remember when you flew on the airplane? AS: Yes, we flew the airplane. First thing I see is the (Indecipherable) we was in Arkansas and they told me that I could fly. He said (Indecipherable) would you wanna fly. First time I flew was in 1920-- 1950. I went (Indecipherable) then I come back here. I went to our country with my husband and you see he did not want to go on the airplane. He wanted the ship. He said he didn' ; t want to die. I told him if you go on the jet you will die and if you go on the ship you will die, if you are on the airplane too. (Laughter) AS: I told him if you' ; re on the airplane and you die you don' ; t know it. But if you' ; re in the ship and you the big ship sunk and you go under the water and come up (indecipherable) come to the rescue. EC: Right. AS: And he never flew in the airplane but when we start to come back his ship was on (Indecipherable). We had to come on the airplane. He enjoyed very much. In 1960 we went another trip, me and him. We stayed out there for six months and come back. NS: Tell the one about the (Indecipherable) Oh, look at that eggplant up there! EC: (Laughter) NS: And that lady laughed and said that' ; s not eggplant, that' ; s an airplane. You know she said-- she said it wrong. I wanted her to tell that one. She always used to tell me about it all the time. Called, eggplant (Laughter). EC: Right. NS: About the eggplant! (Laughter) AS: I used-- we used to have neighbors living in the attic. We had to move them to the garage. They used to live upstairs. His wife and (Indecipherable) were spoken to me and I heard that there' ; s some airplane (Indecipherable) because I told her, " ; Some eggplant passed" ; she laughed. She said " ; That' ; s not eggplant that' ; s a vegetable you eat." ; EC: Laughter AS: Airplane is when you fly on it. EC: Right. AS: And she used to correct me when I spoke English, her and her husband. EC: I see. AS: And (Indecipherable) used to live next to (Indecipherable) our house. EC: Mmm-hmm. What are some of the oldest buildings in Bristow that you remember? What are-- are there some still around? Buildings or houses that were here when you came? NS: Our house from the 1900s. (Inaudible talking in the background) EC: Your house? This is--who built it? NS: Well he used to be the mayor but I don' ; t remember. I don' ; t know if-- you know who knows? Who built it. (Indecipherable) EC: Okay. NS: She knows who built the house. EC: And that' ; s-- what' ; s the address of it? NS: My house? EC: Yeah. NS: 229 West seventh. EC: 229 West seventh. NS: Uh-huh. EC: Okay. NS: But she came over the other day and told me that her happiest days were in that house. She grew up as a teenager and they would go over there and there was some teenage girls-- EC: Oh, Uh-huh. NS: And they' ; d-- and she' ; d-- and I think she-- and if I remember I think she said she took music lessons-- EC: Yeah. NS: --in that house. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: It was built I think by one of the first mayors, but I don' ; t know the name. See that' ; s one thing I don' ; t know. End of interview audio The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.’s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml
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Title
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Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex
Description
An account of the resource
This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow.
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OHP-0022
Date
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1979-06-21
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audio
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654f4a48eeed645b81acc24a35aecd79
Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ed Cadenead
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Kate Corey
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml
Interview Keyword
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Oil Boom
World War I
World War II
Teaching
Entertainment
Racial Intergration
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5.4 Unknown OHP-0025-02 Kate Corey OHP-0025-02 0:00-39:08 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Oil Boom World War I World War II Teaching Entertainment Racial Intergration Kate Corey Ed Cadenead MP3 1:|60(9)|82(8)|97(1)|105(1)|118(8)|134(4)|150(7)|170(6)|189(13)|211(4)|222(15)|230(14)|245(14)|252(8)|265(5)|274(10)|289(7)|303(13)|319(5)|338(3)|351(2)|360(9)|368(9)|381(4)|392(4)|407(2)|421(8)|430(5)|442(9)|460(15)|471(9)|479(14)|488(11)|504(13)|516(3)|524(2)|530(13)|540(6)|555(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0025B Corey, Kate.mp3 Other audio 0 Bristow Before, During, and After The Oil Boom KC: I’m Kate B. Corey, and I was reared in Western Oklahoma, but when I was married, came to Creek County in 1920, during the oil boom at Depew. A little town seven miles from here, and we lived there five years and then moved to Bristow. We have been here ever since. EC: Alright, and where was your husband from? KC: He was— well he’s from— he was born in Kansas, but he’d lived in Oklahoma— Edmond and other places. His father was a railroad man and so he traveled up the Frisco Line and he was at two or three stations but had been here as I said since 1899. EC: Well why did you happen to move to Bristow? KC: Well, just because the boom was dying out over at— the oil boom was dying out over at Depew, and then my husband’s father had a bank here and so he came over to do some work there and then he was working as— in the (Indecipherable) until he lost his shirt. (Laughter from both) KC: — right at the time that the banks were closing and— and the—there were three banks of the five in Bristow that closed that year. EC: Which bank was your husband’s fathers? KC: The First State Bank. Life during the Oil Boom in Bristow Cotton ; Cotton Wagons ; Creek County ; Depew ; Dust ; First State Bank ; Frisco Line ; Oil Boom ; Oilfield Slick ; Substitute ; Teaching Bank ; Bristow Before and After the OIl Boom ; Bristow During the Oil Boom ; Oil Boom 293 Nightlife with Bootleggers, and Bank Failure EC: Someone told me that woman, that she didn’t like early day Bristow because she couldn’t go out. KC: M-HM. EC: — and you had the same experience. KC: I had the same experience, at night. Went all the time in the day time, and we— it was when we were— we lived in Depew but we came over here almost every day because my husband’s parents lived here. We’d come over in the evening and when we’d go home, I would just take off my wedding ring and anything else I had of any value and hide it, and several times we’d go home just to find out that someone had been held up the night before— EC: Oh. KC: — and one night as we were driving home, a car turned in from a side road and followed us all the way just shooting up in the air and yelling at us, and when we tried to drive fast they did, and if we slowed they did. So my husband went to the, oh I guess the cuffs force— somebody at Depew. There wasn’t any policeman, and report him and had him put in jail because he came into town. So long in the middle of the night, the phone rang and it was one of his friends and it was his casing crew who had been arrested. They had just had a little bit too much to drink and were just having a good time. Coming a long (Indecipherable) but it was as effective as if they’d really went (Indecipherable). Laughter. EC: Yes. Any other memories of those days? KC: Well— EC: (Indecipherable) oil business KC: — another time we were driving home and passed the place that we’d always called it a “Bootleggers Camp” and suddenly we stopped because a woman was lying right across the road and a man stepped out to attend and he said, “I have one down here, would you help me get her inside?” So my husband stepped out, and just as he did, she stepped up and grabbed the whiskey bottle and in no uncertain oilfield terms told him just exactly what he was. (Laughter) EC: Oh my! American National Bank ; Bank Failure ; Bootleggers Camp ; First State Bank Bank Failure ; Bootleggers ; Nightlife 1459 Teaching and Schools In Bristow EC: When did you start teaching school here? KC: Well— EC: The second time. KC: —the second time I started, in 1930. I had— we had two older children and when they were about seven and eight there was another one and he was born just a few weeks after the October 29th crash and my husband was— he had multiple skin cancers and in depression times it was just better for him to go to the veteran’s hospital, and the nearest one was Chicago, and so he— and they wouldn’t, they’d treat him and then he had to stay there until he was dismissed. So, he would wood work when he was out, but that would take a month or two out of six months every once in a while. He’d had over— already had an overdose of radiation. Guinea pig for a (Indecipherable) EC: What was the school system like? KC: Well, it was pretty great, it was the best school I ever was in. Including the later years. The CH Black his name was there, was the head of the school system, superintendent and he was, he was considered a slave driver by many people. But he was alright as long as, as teachers did what they were asked to do, and I found him very well. It was pleasant working for him because he accomplished much. Bristow had a reputation of having one of the best schools in the state and for instance, one year the freshmen— in the freshmen class at both OU and Stillwater, Bristow High School received the trophies for highest grade point averages of freshmen in school. Which spoke very well for them and there was a— a very strong faculty of dedicated teachers and with Mr. Black there if you didn’t get— if you weren’t dedicated you became dedicated or you didn’t stay. EC: How long did you continue to teach? KC: I taught from 1930 to 1961. EC: Schools stayed as good? Teaching, Bristow High School and the Integration of Students Bill Mitchell ; Crazy Snake Uprising ; Intergration ; Lincoln Heights ; Lincoln High School ; Marjel Frye ; Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt ; Mrs. Lucinda Johnson ; Mumford McGee ; National Youth Administration ; OU ; Stillwater ; Tulsa Bristow ; High School ; Intergration ; School ; Teaching 1740 Entertainment In Bristow EC: Going back in time, thinking back to the—your— the 1920’s when you first married, what was life like in Bristow? What did you do for entertainment? KC: Oh! We had— it was great! (Laughter) For the women it was bridge clubs and the town was— had grown so fast and we were in the habit of inviting everybody that we knew to the bridge club ya know? Well as more people came in, we still invite em’ and it— it wasn’t anything unusual to have a bridge party of fourteen to twenty tables and we moved out everything but the beds and the kitchen stove to have em’. Everyone dressed up in their best dress and we wore our hats and kept em’ on all the time that we were playing and it was an occasion to use the best china and the silver and the— and the linen cloths and it was so easy because you could have em’ made four dollars a week. EC: M-HM KC: And, that was great, and for a while long in those boom days the— we had dances and— EC: Where did you have them? KC: At the, oh in the— at the country club. I think it was built, it was built about 1923 or 25 and the Roland Hotel had a (Indecipherable) and you’ve heard of the (Indecipherable) KFRU the— EC: Yes, I have. KC: —the radio station, and the men wore their tuxes and it was just a very great life. There was a, my husband was one of the charter members of the golf country club, the country club and played golf all the time and we had picnics, and swimming parties and movies every night. Ya know, we didn’t have (laughter) televisions to sit around, because we had two movies. EC: Someone told me there were three here at one time. Entertainment in Bristow and Vacationing of those who lived there Branson ; Chamber of Commerce ; Eureka Springs ; Kemp's Drugstore ; KFRU ; OSU ; OU ; Roland Hotel ; Sports ; TU College Sports ; Country Club ; Entertainment ; Parties ; Sports ; Vacation 1992 World War II's Affect on Bristow KC: Yes, it did. EC: — on Bristow? KC: It closed down. EC: It closed down? KC: (Crying) Our son was killed in it. EC: Oh I am so sorry. KC: And the World War I had a very dramatic effect too. My husband’s mother was secretary of the Red Cross and everybody was— I wasn’t here at that time but I’ve heard of all, them— the only— the oldest club in Bristow, our embroidery club, which is still hanging on, gave up all their time to roll bandages and my husband and his brother were in the army. My husband was over in England for seven months, and— and it had— and I was at (Indecipherable) at that time, and so I was spotching Doves and baby Merritt’s and selling (Indecipherable) and everything of the kind. EC: Getting to more recent events, I forget it’s history. Making to say the last twenty-five years in Bristow, anything that has happened that you think is significant? World War II's Affect on Bristow's population and economy Army ; Baby Boom ; Cotton Gin ; England ; Red Cross ; Transcontinental ; Wilcox Refinery ; World War I ; World War II Baby Boom ; Bristow Population ; Economy ; World War I ; World War II 2355 Stories Of People and Places In Bristow EC: You mentioned earlier that some of what you knew about Bristow was stories your husband had told. Are there any particular stories that he told that come to mind? KC: A lot of his stories were about his very good friends, the Lebanese, Syrians they were then who came in, there were many Syrians here and you’ve heard of Joe Abraham? and his brother Ed Abraham and many of the stories were just fun stories about them. He liked them they were his very good friends, but they’re— they’re troubles with making— Joe Abraham— (indecipherable) isn’t that an awful name for an old man? EC: (Laughter) KC: When I, I don’t like saying, my husband, I can’t call him Mr. Corey, but— always liked people so much and he tried to help him teach, learn English and he was gonna learn Syrian but he found out that most the words that he was were not words (laughter) and many of the stories were about— just about the fun things that they said. EC: Had there been any spectacular scandals or finds or anything of that sort of kind in Bristow? Memories of People and Places in Bristow Baseball ; Boyce McMillian ; Bridge Club ; Chamber of Commerace ; Ed Abraham ; Episcopal Church ; Joe Abraham ; Lebanese ; Music Club ; Neva Gurley ; Presbyterian Church ; Syrians ; Theater Churches ; People of Bristow ; Scandals ; Teaching English In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family’s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920’s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II. Interviewer: Ed Cadenhead (EC) Interviewee: Kate B. Corey (KC) (1897-1996) Other Persons: None Date of Interview: Unknown Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0025B Side B at 00:00 to 39:08 Abstract: In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family' ; s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920' ; s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. KC: I' ; m Kate B. Corey, and I was reared in Western Oklahoma, but when I was married, came to Creek County in 1920, during the oil boom at Depew. A little town seven miles from here, and we lived there five years and then moved to Bristow. We have been here ever since. EC: Alright, and where was your husband from? KC: He was-- well he' ; s from-- he was born in Kansas, but he' ; d lived in Oklahoma-- Edmond and other places. His father was a railroad man and so he traveled up the Frisco Line and he was at two or three stations but had been here as I said since 1899. EC: Well why did you happen to move to Bristow? KC: Well, just because the boom was dying out over at-- the oil boom was dying out over at Depew, and then my husband' ; s father had a bank here and so he came over to do some work there and then he was working as-- in the (Indecipherable) until he lost his shirt. (Laughter from both) KC: -- right at the time that the banks were closing and-- and the--there were three banks of the five in Bristow that closed that year. EC: Which bank was your husband' ; s fathers? KC: The First State Bank. EC: The First State Bank. So the oil business was what got you here and almost did you in. KC: M-HM. It did us in. It was very good to my husband' ; s father, and to us for a while but it folded up like all oil business. EC: What was Bristow like in the oil boom days. KC: Well I really came here before the-- before the oil boom days. I forgot to say that I came here to teach when I was nineteen years' ; old. EC: Uh-huh. KC: -- and just taught ten weeks in the winter term as a sort of a substitute and it was always remembered the busy streets during the cotton season. You couldn' ; t go down the streets on paved streets because of the big cotton wagons, and the dust, and the crowds of people and that was-- that was all in 1916, so I have been here longer than I told you in the first place and then I went back to school and graduated and did not teach here anymore. EC: So you noticed the difference when you came the second time? KC: I really did because in the-- in the meantime the Oilfield Slick was open first and then the first time I came here that we were about to see the wells pouring over the top at Slick and it was just a booming, busy place and I loved the oil boom so much. The sound of the hammers and the dust and the horses, and the cussin' ; (Laughter) but, that was-- it must' ; ve been in 19-- oh I don' ; t know, 18 or 19. I' ; m not an authority on the times of the oil boom, but it had struck Oklahoma, it had struck Bristow-- it had moved in from Okmulgee and Slick and then on this way and when we were--let' ; s see, when we were married, just about that year 1919 I think it was, we were married 1920. But I think it was about 1919 just after the war was ending that they began drilling quite a bit out here and Bristow came along about 1920 or 21. I' ; m sure it was just a rounded off guess, but they said it had sixteen thousand people and it could easily of had, because every garage and barn and camp was filled with people and my husband was a gentlemen of the old school, he wouldn' ; t let me go to town at night. He went alone because there were so many dope heads and drunks and oilfield followers on the street and it was-- it was quite a life. EC: Someone told me that woman, that she didn' ; t like early day Bristow because she couldn' ; t go out. KC: M-HM. EC: -- and you had the same experience. KC: I had the same experience, at night. Went all the time in the day time, and we-- it was when we were-- we lived in Depew but we came over here almost every day because my husband' ; s parents lived here. We' ; d come over in the evening and when we' ; d go home, I would just take off my wedding ring and anything else I had of any value and hide it, and several times we' ; d go home just to find out that someone had been held up the night before-- EC: Oh. KC: -- and one night as we were driving home, a car turned in from a side road and followed us all the way just shooting up in the air and yelling at us, and when we tried to drive fast they did, and if we slowed they did. So my husband went to the, oh I guess the cuffs force-- somebody at Depew. There wasn' ; t any policeman, and report him and had him put in jail because he came into town. So long in the middle of the night, the phone rang and it was one of his friends and it was his casing crew who had been arrested. They had just had a little bit too much to drink and were just having a good time. Coming a long (Indecipherable) but it was as effective as if they' ; d really went (Indecipherable). Laughter. EC: Yes. Any other memories of those days? KC: Well-- EC: (Indecipherable) oil business KC: -- another time we were driving home and passed the place that we' ; d always called it a " ; Bootleggers Camp" ; and suddenly we stopped because a woman was lying right across the road and a man stepped out to attend and he said, " ; I have one down here, would you help me get her inside?" ; So my husband stepped out, and just as he did, she stepped up and grabbed the whiskey bottle and in no uncertain oilfield terms told him just exactly what he was. (Laughter) EC: Oh my! KC: -- and what the man was, because he left her there to run that shack all afternoon, and I think she must have drunk all the contents. EC: (Laughter) Wow. How-- you said the (Indecipherable) of a boom is a big up and a down. KC: M-HM. EC: Well was the down as fast as the up? KC: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t believe it was, but the down was accelerated probably by the general economy. There were several years of crop failures and the depression really hit Bristow before 1929, and whether it was a result of the overcrowding and the great expectations, and all the money that was made and then when they found out that the field wasn' ; t as big and as permanent, that left unemployed people here. Would be my, it' ; s my way of saying-- EC: You say three of five banks went broke? KC: Yes, M-HM. EC: You remember which-- what the names of them were? KC: No, I remember-- let' ; s see. I don' ; t even remember the names of the other banks. There were the American national and the First State. EC: Well were there any-- KC: I really don' ; t remember? EC: --were there any major failures for individuals because of the bank failures. KC: Well my husband' ; s father, because he had the-- he was the active vice president and the president was, maybe you better turn that off (Laughter). The president was informed of drilling some dry holes. EC: With bank money? KC: It was bank money-- EC: Oh. KC: --and that really brought on the failure of that bank, before the general bank failures, and Dad Corey thought that, well he just felt responsibility for the people. His friends who had put their money into the bank, so he paid them out of his own money. EC: When did you start teaching school here? KC: Well-- EC: The second time. KC: --the second time I started, in 1930. I had-- we had two older children and when they were about seven and eight there was another one and he was born just a few weeks after the October 29th crash and my husband was-- he had multiple skin cancers and in depression times it was just better for him to go to the veteran' ; s hospital, and the nearest one was Chicago, and so he-- and they wouldn' ; t, they' ; d treat him and then he had to stay there until he was dismissed. So, he would wood work when he was out, but that would take a month or two out of six months every once in a while. He' ; d had over-- already had an overdose of radiation. Guinea pig for a (Indecipherable) EC: What was the school system like? KC: Well, it was pretty great, it was the best school I ever was in. Including the later years. The CH Black his name was there, was the head of the school system, superintendent and he was, he was considered a slave driver by many people. But he was alright as long as, as teachers did what they were asked to do, and I found him very well. It was pleasant working for him because he accomplished much. Bristow had a reputation of having one of the best schools in the state and for instance, one year the freshmen-- in the freshmen class at both OU and Stillwater, Bristow High School received the trophies for highest grade point averages of freshmen in school. Which spoke very well for them and there was a-- a very strong faculty of dedicated teachers and with Mr. Black there if you didn' ; t get-- if you weren' ; t dedicated you became dedicated or you didn' ; t stay. EC: How long did you continue to teach? KC: I taught from 1930 to 1961. EC: Schools stayed as good? KC: Well you know they-- there were a lot of things that mattered into it, the times mainly I think. They were always-- I think they were always higher than average but to-- they didn' ; t have quite the reputation, but you know it-- it became just a little bit more difficult to teach and a little bit more difficult to accomplish anything and I think, well when the World War II came in we' ; d had a very strong junior college, small but a good junior college and it almost died out with the-- when so many of the students left to go to the different branches of the service and then when it was started again, oh about 1945 or something. I don' ; t know these dates are just off the top of my head. It was reorganized and it didn' ; t last very long. For one thing, it wasn' ; t supported as much by the superintendent at that time and-- and people had more money and more of em' ; were able to send their children to larger schools, but each of our three children-- two of em' ; during the first good times of the junior college and then one later in 1947 or 8 or something like that, had one year of junior college and I thought it was the greatest asset to a small town-- EC: Where was it located? KC: It was in the high school building, and it was separate from the high school as far as the discipline and the hours and we tried to make as much of a college out of it as possible, but the high school teachers taught the subjects and I don' ; t know-- I don' ; t remember how many hours were given, but enough that in two years they can get what would' ; ve been an Associate of Arts degree. EC: Were there any problems in Bristow over the years that you can remember? Worth telling about. KC: This isn' ; t a problem, but another thing in regards to schools. During the NYA, the National Youth Administration, we had a school here in that building out at the park. It is now called the Farm Center. It was a dormitory. It wasn' ; t built for that, but it was made into a dormitory for the NYA and Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt came here to the dedication of it and the students were from this area, but they contributed a lot to the success of the junior college in numbers and all that. There were never any very startling times to me, now I remember my husband telling about the Crazy Snake Uprising. EC: What do you remember of that? KC: I don' ; t remember anything about it-- EC: You remember what he told-- KC: I remember what he told. Well that the Indians were encamped somewhere out in the country from here, and there were-- I may not be telling this, this just may be one of those heresy, and it is a heresy report, but it' ; s interesting he said it started because the Indians thought that someone in a general store in Bristow was charging them more than they charged-- they charged the white people and my husband' ; s father as I said was deployed and so a message came to round up all the deputies here in the area and his older brother got on a horse and rode down to country with the telegrams, and it was quite exciting times because they could hear the songs and the tom-toms and all the uproar at the encampment. EC: M-HM. KC: And that-- I' ; d really have to go to a history book to find. (Laughter) (Indecipherable) EC: Speaking of Indians, has there been a good mix of Indian and White in Bristow, or was there discrimination? KC: I' ; ve never thought that there was any discrimination. In high school we didn' ; t have a very high percentage of Indians, but we always had some and I' ; m sure they were accepted probably for football (Indecipherable) You know that' ; s the biggest integrator in the world, and there were several who were very artistic and generally good students and if they ever felt any discrimination, I don' ; t know anything about it, but this just occurs to me, has anyone suggested that you talk to Mrs. Lucinda Johnson? EC: I don' ; t think so. KC: Or Majel Frye? EC: That name sounds familiar. KC: Well Mrs. Johnson is Majel Frye' ; s mother, and she was born here. She' ; s the daughter of a white man named Jess Allen (PH) and his wife had her allotment out on the road to Slick. I' ; d say halfway between here and Slick and the house is still out there where-- where her father lived, but Mrs. Allen now lives-- oh her name is Johnson, her name is now Johnson. She was married again. In fact, her maiden name was Allen, and she now lives over near Slick but she comes to Bristow almost every day because her son lives in the nursing home here and she just spends a lot of her time here and I-- I' ; ve heard my husband tell about when he was, he was a few years older than she, several years I expect, but her father would bring her and her sister to the railway station to send them to a Catholic school at Sapulpa. They didn' ; t (Indecipherable) and I' ; m sure she would, she might remember a lot of things that would be very helpful. EC: I have seen of things like that. I have read and heard about the Black population of Bristow that lived in what I guess was Lincoln Heights-- KC: Yes-- EC: -- and was moved. KC: M-HM EC: I don' ; t understand who moved em' ; and how do you move em' ; ? KC: Well, now Lincoln heights was right up here, and the black neighborhood is over, oh six blocks I guess. Just down north of here, six or eight blocks, and they-- there was a black neighborhood out there and then this Lincoln Heights area. I can' ; t speak with any voice of authority. I think it belonged to Mumford McGee (PH) that the land belonged to Mumford McGee (PH) and that (Indecipherable) sold and then he-- he opened-- this is a housing development and the Negros were not allowed to lived here, but some of them kept their houses. Even as far as two or three blocks north than the new high school building, where the new high school building is. Have you-- you' ; ve seen that haven' ; t you? EC: Yes, I have. KC: Well, between that area and west of there. EC: Have there been any racial problems in Bristow over the years. KC: No, not that I know of. I was trying to connect it with-- I was thinking really of the Tulsa, but there wasn' ; t anything like that, and it was always said that integration was carried on very peacefully and easily here and I was teaching at the time that we were integrated and we had-- we spent the year before trying to get the students and the teachers to, and I was one of them (laughter) into the mood of acceptance of em' ; , and I heard the superintendent say several times, how smooth integration was for us and how easily it was accomplished, but I always felt just a little bit of sadness about it. Not for the whites but for the Negros, because they had an ideal in school that they' ; re with their own debate clubs, and wonderful chorus, and basketball teams and everything of the kind. Well when, and they have again taken their place as leaders in athletics, but when they-- the first years-- the first year to that they moved to high school, just frankly I' ; d look up and I' ; d think well what are you doing it over here, but after I, I was counselor and after I had worked with em' ; for a year or so it just changed me so completely. When I could see the problems they were having and the struggles that they had to do anything. You see the white teachers-- the Negro teachers were all dismissed and several families who had-- whose children had been leaders in the-- what did they call that school? Lincoln High School, came over to high school and they were too new to it to find their place in the high school, and I think we definitely tried to, but really one reason integration was so successful and so many of them simply dropped out of school. EC: M-HM KC: And I think, I don' ; t think that' ; s the case now. I think, I expect there' ; s high percentage in the Negros graduating according to the number who enter as whites, and they seem more and more to be getting meeting places back to presidents and student council last year with the negro, Bill Mitchell a veterinarian' ; s son and he' ; s a fine student. EC: Going back in time, thinking back to the--your-- the 1920' ; s when you first married, what was life like in Bristow? What did you do for entertainment? KC: Oh! We had-- it was great! (Laughter) For the women it was bridge clubs and the town was-- had grown so fast and we were in the habit of inviting everybody that we knew to the bridge club ya know? Well as more people came in, we still invite em' ; and it-- it wasn' ; t anything unusual to have a bridge party of fourteen to twenty tables and we moved out everything but the beds and the kitchen stove to have em' ; . Everyone dressed up in their best dress and we wore our hats and kept em' ; on all the time that we were playing and it was an occasion to use the best china and the silver and the-- and the linen cloths and it was so easy because you could have em' ; made four dollars a week. EC: M-HM KC: And, that was great, and for a while long in those boom days the-- we had dances and-- EC: Where did you have them? KC: At the, oh in the-- at the country club. I think it was built, it was built about 1923 or 25 and the Roland Hotel had a (Indecipherable) and you' ; ve heard of the (Indecipherable) KFRU the-- EC: Yes, I have. KC: --the radio station, and the men wore their tuxes and it was just a very great life. There was a, my husband was one of the charter members of the golf country club, the country club and played golf all the time and we had picnics, and swimming parties and movies every night. Ya know, we didn' ; t have (laughter) televisions to sit around, because we had two movies. EC: Someone told me there were three here at one time. KC: There were! Just as I said that, there were three but there were-- one was about where, long about where Kemp' ; s Drugstore is, not entirely and another one down about where the Chamber of Commerce, right in that area. Now another one across the street and as soon--as soon as the roads were-- they didn' ; t even have to be very acceptable, we got up to Tulsa to The Opera and baseball games and always went to all the football games at OSU who had such a good pick of teams and at OU and at TU. My husband was in for all kinds of sports, and so for a long time he went alone while the children were little and then I began going with him and we had season tickets at OU and OSU for the last years (Indecipherable) EC: Were than any particular vacation spots that people in Bristow used? Did people take vacations in the 40' ; s? KC: Yes. Well up in Missouri around Branson-- EC: M-HM KC: --and, Eureka Springs, and I can' ; t even remember the names of the place, and then we made trips to Canada. My husband' ; s father was very fortunate in some of his land he owned and had five producing wells on it at one time. So we were the typical new rich, it didn' ; t last long but it was fun while it lasted. (Laughter) EC: Did World War II have any dramatic effect-- KC: Yes, it did. EC: -- on Bristow? KC: It closed down. EC: It closed down? KC: (Crying) Our son was killed in it. EC: Oh I am so sorry. KC: And the World War I had a very dramatic effect too. My husband' ; s mother was secretary of the Red Cross and everybody was-- I wasn' ; t here at that time but I' ; ve heard of all, them-- the only-- the oldest club in Bristow, our embroidery club, which is still hanging on, gave up all their time to roll bandages and my husband and his brother were in the army. My husband was over in England for seven months, and-- and it had-- and I was at (Indecipherable) at that time, and so I was spotching Doves and baby Merritt' ; s and selling (Indecipherable) and everything of the kind. EC: Getting to more recent events, I forget it' ; s history. Making to say the last twenty-five years in Bristow, anything that has happened that you think is significant? KC: Now ya know, Bristow dwindled from that sixteen or seventeen thousand to about-- well we always had a sign up by the turnpike that said population seven thousand but it really since didn' ; t show it that way, and for years there was no building, it was just-- it held-- it stayed alive. I guess that would be the best way to put it and they-- I think that the school population was always, remained about the same until the last four or five years. That' ; s just common I think everywhere with the-- with the end of the Baby Boom, and Bristow had-- it suffered a lot in the depression and really never did come back to itself. There were at one time-- there were several refineries here. The Transcontinental one' ; s the big one, and the Wilcox refinery. (Inaudible) maybe there was just two and they finally closed. They ya know, there were cotton gins. There were five cotton gins at Depew. I don' ; t know how many were here, and with the-- when they quit farming, well there were none. There' ; s a great-- for a while, peanuts were the-- you know this was the peanut capital of the world. Do you know the-- oh I don' ; t know that it was a law, but anyway something was passed making it mandatory to serve peanuts to every café customer and that big building down-- big empty big storage building was the peanut storage place and that helped it a little bit. The economy and I think all of it, Bristow was always a very good place to live but not a very good place to make a living and that was-- that' ; s what happened to our children, that they would' ; ve liked so much to stay here but unless you were one of the half dozen oilers who could make a living here or a merchant and so our children all left. EC: You mentioned earlier that some of what you knew about Bristow was stories your husband had told. Are there any particular stories that he told that come to mind? KC: A lot of his stories were about his very good friends, the Lebanese, Syrians they were then who came in, there were many Syrians here and you' ; ve heard of Joe Abraham? and his brother Ed Abraham and many of the stories were just fun stories about them. He liked them they were his very good friends, but they' ; re-- they' ; re troubles with making-- Joe Abraham-- (indecipherable) isn' ; t that an awful name for an old man? EC: (Laughter) KC: When I, I don' ; t like saying, my husband, I can' ; t call him Mr. Corey, but-- always liked people so much and he tried to help him teach, learn English and he was gonna learn Syrian but he found out that most the words that he was were not words (laughter) and many of the stories were about-- just about the fun things that they said. EC: Had there been any spectacular scandals or finds or anything of that sort of kind in Bristow? KC: No, I don' ; t know if they have. There' ; s something I was going to say, and what was it? I think that Bristow would be described better as a-- as a very-- other people, everybody might not feel it this way but I' ; ve felt that it was a very close knit family, and many of the people who came here, and settled in were from Missouri and south, down especially Mississippi. The Jones family came here Boyce McMillian' ; s (PH) husband' ; s relatives and were at Drumright, made their first money over there, and they-- and they and the-- they kind of set the tone for (indecipherable) I don' ; t know that it' ; s always been a place of great culture but many of the people who were here had a culture background and they kept em' ; developing it and had been responsible. Now way back during the, let me see, after the it was the twenty-five to the thirties and very good music club a little theatre. (Indecipherable) Bridge Club, (laughter) baseball teams, football, tennis then and it died out and came back in a big way. If there' ; s-- if Bristow has had anything really startling or exciting, I don' ; t know what it was. We built this house in 1940 and it was one of three or four houses built in that many years. There just wasn' ; t any there. There were two or three little houses over on second street that were built a little bit after we built this one and-- and then for a period of five, ten years or so. I don' ; t think anybody ever felt-- anybody who lived in Bristow and-- and was a chamber of commerce spirit felt that we were any worse off for the slowness of it. EC: Which-- which buildings in Bristow today, as far as you know are the oldest ones? KC: Well, a little brick build-- a little brick house over on fourth street is one of the oldest. There were either two or I think probably three of those brick houses together and the others or other one demolished-- was demolished last, oh in the last year or two and I thought that that little brick house was made of the bricks that were, made out of a brick factory that was here near the-- out by the--over there across the railroad tracks and a little bit further-- EC: You have any idea who built this house? KC: No, I don' ; t-- (indecipherable) would' ; ve known all about that, but I just don' ; t know. EC: Any other house or buildings-- KC: Well, I think they-- you' ; ve probably heard this, but the-- probably the oldest church in town in the little Christian science church. That was built by where the Episcopal church, then was used after they-- there weren' ; t enough Episcopalians here and the Presbyterian church leased it or did something for a while. It' ; s on the corner of, I believe eighth and Elm. Pretty little church and then they-- Oh let me tell you somebody else. Do you have Neva Gurley' ; s (PH) name on that? EC: I don' ; t. KC: Hmm. Well you (inaudible) End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml OHP-0025-02_Kate_Corey.xml
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Kate Corey
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In this interview, Kate B. Corey (1897-1996) discusses her family’s experience in Bristow. She moved with her husband in the 1920’s and lived there for the remainder of her life. She describes life during the oil boom, teaching during racial integration, entertainment, and the effects of World War I and World War II.
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OHP-0025-02
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Oral History
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Wanda Newton
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Corwin Henkins
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5.4 OHP-0024-02 Corwin Henkins OHP-0024-02 0:00-42:10 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Corwin Henkins Wanda Newton MP3 1:|89(11)|126(4)|145(9)|179(15)|227(4)|279(15)|309(2)|359(16)|418(2)|461(15)|514(4)|553(8)|606(16)|651(4)|695(6)|723(8)|750(1)|795(7)|837(9)|877(14)|899(2)|927(3)|955(15)|985(12)|1015(4)|1073(12)|1089(4)|1125(4)|1177(7)|1199(5)|1222(8)|1255(1)|1281(3)|1311(5)|1339(13)|1368(4)|1393(12)|1427(2)|1468(1)|1497(3)|1547(9)|1610(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0024 Henkins, Corwin.mp3 Other audio 589 Family Background and Life in Bristow WN: Ed Fox and— Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe— WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don’t ask me, you’re giving me information— I don’t know. CH: I think that’s right. I’m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that— CH: and uh— WN: —and you said you’d knew my mother— Family background and the early days of Bristow Albert Kelly ; Bob Williams ; Bristow ; Chandler ; Cherokee ; Civil War ; Corwin Henkins ; Cotton ; Creeco Mill ; Dysentery ; Ed Fox ; Klingensmith ; Kremlin ; Lucy West ; Nelly Strain ; Orva Henkins ; Prairie Grove ; Sapulpa ; Seneca ; Stroud ; Train ; Tulsa Civil War ; Early Bristow ; Family History https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Waneuma Earlene " ; Wanda" ; Newton's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13027907/edward-b.-fox Edward B. Fox's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7525025/corwin-thacker-henkins Corwin Thacker Henkins's Grave 885 School Day's WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don’t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my— the sister Orva’s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to— WN: (Laughter) CH: —whether I needed it or not— WN: Just for a good example— CH: —so the rest of em’ wouldn’t think she’s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her— Basketball ; Blackwell ; Charlie Pickett ; Daniel Boone ; Football ; Neva Carmen ; School house ; Washington School Classmates ; School Days ; School Sports ; Teachers 1212 Crops and Old Bristow Businesses WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That’s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids— or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty— whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That’s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton— WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you’d go to that main street, and you couldn’t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! Which crops were most common and Memorable Businesses Boardwalks ; Brownsville ; Bullington ; Civil War Pension ; Cotton ; First National Bank ; Frisco Depot ; Halliburton ; Ice Plant ; Livery Stable ; Maroon's ; Millinery ; Oilfield Buisnesses ; Crops In Bristow 1357 The Flu Epidemic, and Doc King WN: You don’t remember that. Is there— well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came— CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up— there was people— I’d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em’ on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building— what’s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth— second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that— WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I’m pretty sure that King (PH) and— I know King (PH) was here and I think— WN: How about Schrader (PH) or— CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he— CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my— The Flu Epidemic ; How and Who treated it Birth Certificate ; Coppedge ; Deep Fork Slugs ; Doc King ; Flu Epidemic ; Midwife ; Ray Mars ; Schrader Flu Epidemic ; Medical 1468 Weddings, Indians and The Law Men 1473 Brick Streets and Childhood Entertainment WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn’t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets— CH: Yeah, bricked em’. M-HM, yeah. WN: —and how long did it take em’? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don’t have any idea on that. EF: Didn’t you say one man— colored man laid most of the bricks— CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I— I’d as a kid just go down there and watch em’. I don’t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must’ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it’d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? Where Did the Bricked Streets Come From and What did Children in Bristow do for Fun? Brick Streets ; Paved Streets ; Railroad ; Railroad Tracks ; Roller Skate ; Social Life ; Wagon Bricked Streets ; Childhood ; Childhood Games ; Entertainment 1675 Weddings, Lumber, Pipelines and Jessie Allen WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember— can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the— well wait a minute, let’s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn’t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours’ time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know— lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or— Weddings and The Story of Jessie Allen and the Pipeline Crew Bacone ; Federal Marshals ; Jessie Allen ; Lee Johnson ; Lumber Yard ; Pipeline ; Police Officers ; Shivaree ; Wedding ; Yuchi Indians High School Indians ; Law ; Lumber ; Pipeline ; Weddings 1810 High School Sports and The Saint Louis Cardinals CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite— WN: Yes. CH: —an announcer for— WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn’t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the— if it hadn’t been for sports he’d of starved to death. He couldn’t do nothing else— WN: (Laughter) CH: —he wasn’t fit for nothing. Never done a day’s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news— CH: Yes, he did. WN: — in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any— France Laux and The Saint Louis Cardinals, Snakes and Confusion in the Stadium Cardinals ; Football ; France Laux ; Mr. Purdy ; Saint Louis Cardinals ; Snake Indians Football ; Snake Indians ; Sports Stadium https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153710693/france-laux France Laux's Grave 1973 World War I and Dedicated Parks WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that— how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I— I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn’t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him— I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, “I want to go anyway.” and he said, “Well we’ll send you” and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well— CH: They had— they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid’s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that— WN: But do you— do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock— WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That— CH: Oh did the tear it out? World War I, Soldiers, and Parks Dedicated to Them Boy Scouts ; Clad Purdy ; Dr. Schrader ; Gene Wrine ; Klingensmith Park ; National Guard ; World War I Dedication ; Parks ; World War I N 35° 49.972 W 096° 24.045 17 Klingensmith Park https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMZX9M_Klingensmith_Park_Bristow_OK Klingensmith Park 2535 Radio, The Abraham's, Opera House and Other Gems of Bristow WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920’s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn’t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I’ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here— WN: Oh. EF: — in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had— I had— when let’s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What’d they call it? KOX? K— first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn’t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that’s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the— what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. Memories of People, Places and Activities in Bristow Abraham Building ; Chrystal Set ; Cole Park ; Cotton Gin ; Depew ; Dr. Harse ; Ed Abraham ; EE Mounds ; EH Mount ; Flappers ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; HL House's Hardware ; Joe Abraham ; John D. Rockefeller ; KVOO ; Nichols ; Oil Boom ; Roland Hotel ; Statehood ; Territorial Enterprise ; The Record ; Uphus Abraham Building ; Buisnesses ; Radio 35° 50.003′ N, 96° 23.437′ W 17 Abraham Building https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92445965/william-c.-newton William C. " ; Bill" ; Newton's Grave In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Interviewer: Wanda Newton (WN) Interviewee: Corwin Henkins (CH) (1899-1999) Other Persons: Edward Fox (EF), Bill Newton (BN) Date of Interview: March 16th 1990 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0024 Side A and Side B 00:00 to 42:10 Abstract: In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father' ; s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. WN: Ed Fox and-- Ed will you introduce your guest? EF: This is Corwin Henkins from Seneca, Missouri. WN: And Corwin will you tell me again now, that you knew my father? CH: I worked for your father and Lloyd (PH) when they first bought the hardware from HL House (PH) I believe-- WN: Oh. CH: Is that who they bought it from? WN: Don' ; t ask me, you' ; re giving me information-- I don' ; t know. CH: I think that' ; s right. I' ; m sure it is. WN: Oh uh, that-- CH: and uh-- WN: --and you said you' ; d knew my mother-- CH: Yeah. WN: --too? Nelly (PH)? Nelly Strain (PH). CH: And, I especially knew one of her brothers and I can' ; t remember which one it was-- WN: Well it was Walter (PH) I presume-- CH: --Was Walter (PH) a-- WN: --A wrestler-- CH: --A wrestler, that' ; s-- WN: --he and Bob Williams (PH). CH: That' ; s-- I told you-- WN: (Laughter) WN: I asked her. I asked him coming over if-- if she was kin to Bob Williams (PH) and he said no. Wasn' ; t though-- WN: No but they were good friends, see. CH: Well that' ; s the connection there. WN: Yeah. CH: Just friends. WN: Uh-- now first of all, I want to say this is March the 17th 1990. We are going to use this in our library for future historical reference, so I want to be sure-- EF: How about 16th? WN: Is it the 16th? Oh gah, I' ; m always a day back or forward or something. (Laughter from all) WN: Okay, now tell me Mr. Henkins when were you born? The month, the day and the year. CH: May the 1st 1899. WN: That was my father' ; s birthday! His was May 1st 1891. CH: 91? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. Okay, now then can you tell me a little bit about your parents and your grandparents? CH: Well, my father and mother moved here in 1902, to Bristow-- WN: To Bristow. CH: -- and I' ; ll tell you this if you want to know it. Dad come down ahead of time on the train. He stopped Tulsa, Sapulpa, Bristow, Stroud and Chandler. Got off the train, walked out to residents some place, asked whoever answered the door for a drink of water. What he was hunting was good drinking water. He didn' ; t care nothing about the size of the town or anything, he wanted good water. Everything was out of a well you see, there wasn' ; t any running water any place. Bristow had the best water and that' ; s the reason he decided-- WN: Oh well! CH: --On Bristow. WN: Well that' ; s exciting to know. Do you know anything at all about your grandparents? CH: Not very much. WN: Not very much. Don' ; t have any idea where they came from? CH: Oh yeah, they-- my grandfather came from Pennsylvania. He settled in North Missouri and not on my father' ; s side, on my mother' ; s side I know very little about em' ; other than they was bout' ; fifty miles east of Kansas City. WN: Well now, can you tell me any-- CH: My dad was in the Civil War. UI: Oh yes! I wanna know. You know that for sure? CH: I know it for sure because I drew a Civil War pen-- I have a (Indecipherable) of that. I drew a Civil War pension and I-- not many people my age. They say that they think you' ; re crazy-- WN: (Laughter) CH: -- and I was about nine years old when my dad died, and my mother drew twenty-seven dollars a month. I drew three dollars a month until I was eighteen years old-- WN: Well how exciting. CH: -- and that was supposed to buy my school books. WN: Well do you remember-- did your father ever tell you any Civil War tales or anything? Any adventures he had? CH: Well there' ; s one-- EF: you tell-- CH: --about the brother? EF: No, go ahead and tell that one and then I' ; ll-- remind me-- CH: Back then they was North Missouri and Missouri was right along the line, it didn' ; t care-- the young boys didn' ; t care which side of the war they was on. Everybody else was going to war and they wanted to join. Well, one of my brothers-- my father' ; s brothers joined the South and my dad joined the North. And they know that they was in one battle together. Same place and it was-- you' ; ll know-- EF: Against each other in one battle-- CH: You oughta know the name of the-- WN: Was it-- (Talking at the same time) WN: -- Prairie Grove? CH: It' ; s Arkansas. EF: It was out of Prairie Grove. CH: Yeah in there somewhere. Anyway, here is the part about us. My dad came home ; the brother never did. WN: Oh-- CH: They don' ; t know-- WN: What happened. CH: --what happened, see. WN: That' ; s sad. Yeah, that' ; s sad. CH: Could be that my dad shot his own brother. WN: (Laughter) CH: (Indecipherable) trying to say-- WN: Yeah. CH: That' ; s possible, not at all likely-- EF: And down at (Indecipherable) River in Tennessee, wasn' ; t it that he won an award and he made that pipe? I still got it-- CH: Oh yeah. Yeah-- EF: And there' ; s the (Indecipherable) out of the (Indecipherable). WN: Oh really? EF: He didn' ; t set it in the pipe. CH: He' ; s-- he' ; s-- he' ; s-- EF: I' ; ve got it and-- CH: -- He' ; s got the pipe-- WN: Well you have the history of the-- CH: Great-- EF: Well no, I just got it all up here. WN: Well you-- CH: Well now, he' ; s got the-- he' ; s got the old papers of my dad' ; s-- where they went to while they was in the-- EF: Yeah. CH: --in the-- WN: and his discharge papers and everything? CH: Yeah-- EF: (Indecipherable) WN: Yeah, yeah M-HM, they did. Well-- well tell me, how did your parents get to Oklahoma. Did they make the run originally-- CH: They made the-- yeah. Now they made the run. The one up-- would that be the Cherokee? WN: Well it could be. CH: I guess. Anyways that' ; s no connection with em' ; coming to Bristow. They made that and sailed north of Enid, in there some place. I didn' ; t know the name of the town-- WN: Yeah-- EF: Kremlin! It seemed like a name of Kremlin comes-- CH: Kremlin' ; s it-- EF: Okay. CH: --That' ; s the closest town and they liked to starve to death picking up bones and-- WN: That' ; s what my grandfather did. CH: --and selling em' ; , so they went back to Missouri. WN: Uh-huh. CH: and then later on, see I wasn' ; t born then. That was in-- WN: 1889? CH: 80-- 89? WN: Or 91? CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. WN: Yeah, okay. CH: One of em' ; . It was-- it was that particular run up there then another run in Oklahoma City. This is what-- I think they called it-- I don' ; t know. Cherokee I believe. WN: Okay. CH: Anyway, they made that and my father and mother and my mother' ; s brother, which was single, and my mother' ; s sister which was not married, and then the half-brother of mine all made the run together and they all settled on the-- what is it six hundred and forty? EF: Section probably. CH: Section-- EF: (Inaudible) CH: They cornered and they built-- they built one nice house. My mother cooked for all of em' ; . They built a little shack on the other four to (Indecipherable) WN: Yes, so they can-- CH: All right here in the corner. WN: -- declare their homestead. Do you remember any outstanding things that happened to you as a child while you were in that area? CH: See I wasn' ; t there-- WN: You weren' ; t there? CH: I wasn' ; t born yet. That was before I was born. This run and settlement. It was in 89 wasn' ; t it? WN: There was one in 18-- CH: That' ; s the one they made, the 89 run-- WN: The 89-- CH: --see I wasn' ; t born til' ; 99, ten years later-- WN: Yeah. CH: --but my two sisters, Orva-- you might-- WN: Well I remember my mother, Orva Hinkle (PH)-- CH: Yeah-- WN: My father-- EF: Orva Henkins. WN: Well, Henkins-- I knew it was-- CH: Well now she made this run with us and his mother made it. See his mother and this Orva were sisters-- WN: Sisters? CH: --and his mother was the-- one of the two first school teachers in this town. WN: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- CH: Lucy West (PH) and his mother-- EF: They taught at different schools, I think-- CH: No, taught at the same schools! -- EF: Same school? CH: --This old church building right down here on-- right by the railroad track. It' ; s not there now-- EF: At ninth, I think. CH: Yeah, pretty close to where that-- EF: Creeco Mill? CH: Where they shelled peanuts, I mean-- WN: Oh-- CH: Pecans. WN: Pecans, down at the Creeco Mill-- EF: Creeco Mill. CH: Yeah. WN: and there was a church there-- CH: An old church there and that' ; s where they held school. WN: Well let me ask you, did your mother and father farm while they were in Bristow or what did they do-- CH: He was a carpenter. WN: He was a carpenter, and you attended-- CH: My mother was a milliner. That' ; s what they called-- made the hats back then-- WN: Yes! I-- did she sell her shop to Mrs. Klingensmith (PH) or-- CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) were together-- WN: Were together? I-- CH: Yeah. WN: --have been looking in some older newspapers-- CH: (Indecipherable) WN: --and I saw this ad-- I saw a little thing in the news-- early newspaper down there, where that she bought in with Ms. Klingingsmith (PH) or something. CH: Her and Ms. Klingensmith (PH) went in together. EF: Uh, I-- WN: and their ad had (Indecipherable). CH: Well, I don' ; t remember. Had what? WN: Had-- no had Henkins-- EF: Henkins. WN: Henkins. CH: I don' ; t remember that part now-- EF: I got something that-- he can verify this. My grandmother went out in the cotton field cause they just had houses and all of the town was cotton fields and didn' ; t she find, Albert Kelly SR. out there with Dysentery so bad and doctored em' ; back to health. CH: Well you-- you' ; ve got me on who it was but I can remember the story about her finding somebody-- EF: Yeah. Well that' ; s what I hear but-- WN: Albert Kelly SR.? EF: M-HM WN: Well that' ; s interesting to know-- CH: Now, I know we knew Albert Kelly-- EF: Yeah I know that, but-- CH: I worked for him in the grocery store-- EF: --you or someone told me it was Albert, but I don' ; t know-- WN: Well back up to your school, tell me a little bit about your early school house that you went to. All your grades and what did you use for books and you remember anything about school? CH: I don' ; t remember much about it other than I remember that I had to go to my-- the sister Orva' ; s about half the time and she whooped me every day just to-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --whether I needed it or not-- WN: Just for a good example-- CH: --so the rest of em' ; wouldn' ; t think she' ; s partial. WN: Oh! (laughter) CH: You look like your mother ; you know it? WN: I guess I do as I grow older ; I look more like her. CH: Well as I remember her-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I don' ; t remember too well, been years-- cause that' ; s a lot-- we' ; re talking bout' ; a lot of years. WN: That' ; s right. CH: See, I left here in 1927. WN: Well I was seven years old when you left then-- CH: And that' ; s the last time I ever remember even seeing your mother, would be then. Oh I might' ; ve seen her on the street maybe coming back through or something-- WN: But-- CH: -- I seen your dad occasionally. WN: Yes. Well let me ask you, how far did you get in school? CH: Finished high school. WN: You finished high school. Where was the high school at that time? Did you finish it here? CH: Over on first street. WN: On first street. Where the Washington School is now? CH: That' ; d be the Washington-- EF: Across from mother and them over there? CH: Yeah. EF: Was that the high school? CH: Yeah. EF: I' ; m learning something. CH: Yeah, a two story high school-- WN: Well, I think-- I keep thinking that those steps over there that are leading up to that wall there, were the steps to the original high school. I wish you' ; d look at em' ; when you take me home. CH: I don' ; t much believe so. I believe-- WN: You don' ; t think they are? CH: I believe it' ; s set back a ways-- the school. It was two story, I remember that. WN: Yes, I remember a picture mother had of it and I remember her saying that the High School yell for the basketball team was, " ; booma' ; like a chicka' ; lika' ; who are we? We' ; re the girls of BIT" ; or (Indecipherable) CH: When did your mother-- your mother graduated from High School here? WN: I guess-- I know my aunt Mabel (PH) did, yes I' ; m sure my-- CH: What year? WN: -- now why would you ask me that? (Laughter) CH: I was just wondered if it was anywhere close to-- I graduated for the-- with a whole slug of Carmens (PH). WN: Well now, I' ; m sure it was in the paper down there. You were on one of the first-- CH: (Indecipherable) Carmen (PH) was in our-- my class and Neva Carmen (PH)-- EF: Neva (PH). Yeah. CH: -- and uh-- WN: You were an-- CH: Gladys (PH) WN: --early football player there. CH: What? WN: You were an early football player-- CH: I was. Played on the first football team Bristow ever had with a coach. WN: With a coach. CH: 1917. WN: Well that' ; s interesting-- CH: -- and I don' ; t know of any of em' ; to my knowledge that' ; s still alive but one, Charlie Pickett (PH). He lived in-- EF: Blackwell. CH: Blackwell, Oklahoma. EF: Nursing home. CH: He' ; s in a nursing home. WN: Well, can you remember how many people graduated from your class? CH: Wasn' ; t too many, I know that. EF: He played with (Indecipherable)-- CH: I think in that book-- who' ; s got that book? EF: Joe Ihle had it. I gave it to him, he' ; s supposed to-- CH: That Orva made-- WN: He' ; s taking good care of it, huh? EF: I don' ; t know, he better. WN: (Laughter) CH: She-- my sister, Orva made me a book and she called it-- what was it? Purple and gold. That' ; s when they first had the first colors, purple and gold. A football career-- EF: Yeah. CH: --and there' ; s a bunch of pictures in it. You haven' ; t seen it? WN: No, I haven' ; t seen it-- CH: I gave it to him, he oughta bring it out and let her see it-- EF: Well, I don' ; t have it right now. WN: Well, they' ; re trying to work out some kind of a thing for this big reunion and they' ; re trying to get all the historical things together and they' ; re getting some pictures made off of some of the things like you all-- CH: I give it to him and told him I didn' ; t care what they done with it. I was real proud of it. It' ; s got all the old football players from-- WN: Oh! CH: --from the very first foot-- high school football team and the first coach they ever had clear up until 1950-- EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it as coach of something. CH: Huh? EF: (Indecipherable) Corey' ; s (PH) pictures in it. Corey (PH)! CH: (Indecipherable) Corey (PH)? EF: Yeah! CH: I think that was connected with-- EF: Baseball. CH: Baseball, yeah. WN: Well I' ; ll tell you, they' ; ll put it in acid proof things, so that nothing will happen to it. Whatever, you know whatever it be-- CH: I told him I don' ; t care what happens to it, only I no one' ; s just shoved back on the corner. He' ; d just well keep it at his own house-- WN: That' ; s right. CH: If he' ; s gonna do that with it. WN: Well I think they' ; re planning on that-- CH: It' ; s got a lot of pictures in it. One picture-- one teacher I went to school with, probably a lot of people don' ; t know that. Maybe some of the kids went to school with her. Right over there at that high school, she was Daniel Boone' ; s (PH) great-great granddaughter. WN: Oh. CH: Taught school here as Mrs. Boone (PH). WN: Mrs. Boone (PH). CH: Miss Boone (PH)! WN: Oh Miss Boone (PH). Oh, okay. Well now let me ask you, how far did you live from the school? Do you remember how you-- how you got to school-- CH: About two blocks. Walked. WN: Oh you walked then. So you didn' ; t-- CH: Now that was a grade school then, wasn' ; t it? EF: Well, don' ; t ask me! WN: (Laughter) Well did your father have a wagon? CH: A what? WN: A wagon. CH: Oh yeah! That' ; s the only way they could get around. (Indecipherable) and a horse and cows. WN: Do you remember what kind it was? CH: I know I delivered milk all over town after (Indecipherable). He died when I was just nine years old and my mother raised us three kids-- or the two girls was I guess already working. Raised me on twenty-seven, I believe twenty-- whatever I told you a while ago, twenty-seven or twenty-eight dollars a month, Civil War pension. What little she made out of the millinery sales. WN: That' ; s remarkable. Well let me ask you, do you remember what the main crops were here around Bristow? CH: Cotton. Cotton-- WN: Cotton. CH: Cotton you' ; d go to that main street, and you couldn' ; t get up and down with the cotton wagons in fall of the year. No pavement, no anything you see. WN: Do you remember when there were boardwalks? CH: Well sure! WN: Someone said there was a livery stable right bout' ; in the middle of-- CH: There was. EF: He worked for it some. CH: It caught fire one time and a bunch of horses burned up in it, I remember that. Right-- the livery stable was pretty close to where-- it was either where the First National Bank is now, or one block south of that. Right in there. WN: Well now, do you remember the Frisco Depot being in the center of sixth street there? Do you remember when it was in-- CH: Where is it now? WN: It' ; s moved over between sixth and seventh now, but it was at one time supposedly out in the middle of sixth street and they moved it. CH: You got me there. WN: You don' ; t remember that, okay. Did you ever work at any of the fields out? Did you ever when you were young do any of the oilfield work? CH: Oh yeah I taught everyone oilfield work. I went (Indecipherable) -- EF: Well he was out there when Halliburton come out on his first job, you told me. CH: 19-- I want to talk to her about Halliburton. I think she knows them people down at Fort Ramsay-- live right in-- what' ; s their names? EF: Maroon' ; s (PH). WN: Oh yes, Maroon' ; s (PH)! CH: Well I see-- I' ; ve seen them every day for the last month there at Fort Ramsay, Texas-- WN: Oh. CH: --when I' ; ve been down there-- WN: Oh, well they left-- left their corner-- they still live here, they just leave their house and go down there and have a good time. That' ; s what they' ; re doing. CH: Yeah. WN: Yeah. CH: And we was just talking the other day, something bout (Indecipherable) and I said, well I knew her of course but I couldn' ; t think of your mother' ; s name to save my life-- WN: My-- CH: --and they couldn' ; t either. WN: -- my father only has one living brother now and he lives down at Brownsville, Texas. He was a citrus brewer down there for a long time. Can you remember any of the things that your mother did, like did she make soap or did she do anything real pioneerish-- CH: I' ; m sure. They made soap back then and I know this, she dried lots of fruit on the roof-- WN: On the roof of your-- CH: -- dried apricots and apples and I guess that' ; s about all. WN: Well, did you help your mother with your laundry any at all? CH: Did I help? WN: Uh-Huh. CH: Not if I could help it! WN: Okay. (Laughter) Do you-- CH: I had two sisters and-- WN: --but did you have a cow in town? CH: Oh yeah! I' ; d delivered milk all over town, nickel a quart. WN: But just-- CH: Nickel a quart. WN: Nickel a quart. Just from your cow? Or did-- CH: Oh yeah. WN: Well at one point in time you said that there was a community pasture or something up here-- CH: I' ; ve taken-- I-- we took our cow out there and I had a pony and I' ; d deliver cows to your-- one to your house and one to-- WN: Oh. CH: --certain ones for I don' ; t know a little money of some kind I suppose, bound to be. But it was a community pasture and it was right pretty close to right in here. WN: That' ; s what I thought. That' ; s what I' ; ve heard that it was up in this area. CH: A little closer to town-- WN: Yeah-- CH: --I think. WN: --A little. Up maybe where the sand pipe is-- CH: No, is it down-- where is the hospital, right here? WN: Yeah, Uh-huh. CH: Alright it was right between here and the hospital-- WN: Was it? Well that' ; s interesting to know. Do you remember anything at all-- did you butcher anything-- CH: Oh yeah. I worked for Bullington (PH) (Indecipherable) and helped-- and done all the butchering. When I was a teenager, we' ; d go out east of town down on (Indecipherable) had what they called a slaughter house down there and me and old man Bullington (PH) would go down and kill a beef. I' ; d load it into my little cart that I delivered meat in and bring it back up and put it in the ice. I done all the butchering. WN: Where' ; d you get your ice? CH: From the ice plant. WN: We had the ice plant-- CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? Victor' ; s (PH)-- WN: Victor' ; s (PH) ?CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? WN: Victor' ; s (PH) had the ice plant? CH: Victor' ; s (PH)? EF: I don' ; t know ; this is before my time-- WN: Let-- let-- EF: Just across the railroad track on the left there. CH: What' ; s there now? EF: Bank. CH: Bank, yeah. WN: Bank. It' ; s gone. Well let me ask you, somebody called and asked me the other day if there-- if I had read any early accounts of a brick maker or a brick factory here in Bristow. Do you remember any kind of a brick-- anybody-- CH: You know it ; it runs my mind it was but I can' ; t come up with nothing-- WN: --somebody who made bricks-- well we' ; re looking for somebody who made bricks. We' ; re trying to find out where the bricks for that little church down there, that was a Christian Science church but before that, wasn' ; t it a little Episcopalian church? The first little brick church in Bristow. CH: It runs my mind that it was a brick factory there, but I can' ; t come up with-- I can' ; t say for sure. WN: You don' ; t remember that. Is there-- well let me back up a little bit. Do you remember anything about the Flu epidemic that came-- CH: You betcha I do, when they had it up-- there was people-- I' ; d say hundreds, seemed like and where they had em' ; on cots was the second story right where the old Abraham building-- what' ; s there now the gas company or something? WN: M-HM. EF: Yeah. CH: That was a different building that had them up on that fourth-- second floor and they just died like flies up there. I believe the 17 and 18, is that-- WN: M-HM. Yes, as I walked through the old part of the cemetery, I noticed so many things. Do you remember anybody who was a doctor here at that time? CH: I' ; m pretty sure that King (PH) and-- I know King (PH) was here and I think-- WN: How about Schrader (PH) or-- CH: Schrader (PH). Schrader (PH). WN: Schrader (PH) was here. Coppedge (PH) was he-- CH: Coppedge (PH) yeah, I think those three were here. I know King (PH) was because when I wanted my-- EF: Who delivered-- CH: Birth Certificate. Huh? EF: Pardon me, go ahead. I just wondered who delivered me? I come in seventeen. CH: When I was trying to get my birth certificate, I had trouble getting it because I didn' ; t have the doctor, and midwife and they was all dead and my mother couldn' ; t get any of the information I finally went to Doc King (PH) and he says, well Hank-- everybody called me Hank-- he said, Hank if you can' ; t get one-- says, I know you was alive when you was about two years old. He said if you can' ; t get one I' ; ll give you one because I' ; ve doctored you ever since coming to Bristow. So he was the doctor when I come to Bristow in 1902. I know he was here then. WN: Well did-- was your mother ever a midwife? Did she ever do anything like that? CH: I couldn' ; t tell you about that. I imagine so, probably. WM: Do you remember what kind of medicines you took-- they took during the flu epidemic-- CH: No, I know they had something. Dr. King (PH) give you something called Deep Fork Slugs. WN: (Laughter) Deep Fork Slugs? CH: Yeah, that' ; s exactly what it was. It' ; s for-- in the spring for the Flu you know, they didn' ; t call it Flu then. WN: (Laughter) CH: Yeah, Deep Fork Slugs. WN: Oh! CH: Big ole capsule like thing and I think it' ; s kind of-- put the medicine in it their selves ya know and just get the end caps. Ray Mars (PH) was a druggist he done most of it. WN: Well let me ask you, did you help your mother can or do anything at that time? CH: I didn' ; t help much but she done lots of it. WN: Well let me ask you something else, do you remember when they first paved the streets-- CH: Yeah, bricked em' ; . M-HM, yeah. WN: --and how long did it take em' ; ? Do you have any idea? CH: Oh, I don' ; t have any idea on that. EF: Didn' ; t you say one man-- colored man laid most of the bricks-- CH: I remember that. He was a big ole colored man that, I mean he could lay more brick than anybody I-- I' ; d as a kid just go down there and watch em' ; . I don' ; t have any idea what years that had to be but, I must' ; ve been sixteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. So it' ; d be about 1916 or 17. You remember when they was paved? WN: No! No I don' ; t. They' ; ve always been paved as far as I' ; m concerned. EF: Yeah. WN: I do remember when they paved eleventh street though because I-- CH: Well it wasn' ; t brick though was it? WN: No it wasn' ; t brick, but I-- I remember I got to roller skate down the hill and take the wagon down the hill. I thought that was so exciting and you didn' ; t even have to worry about cars then. (Laughter) Oh, well do you-- can you tell me just a little bit about the kind of social life you had as a teenager and some of the rules and regulations or how you courted or-- CH: Oh, now I don' ; t know too much about it, I wasn' ; t interested in anything like that. There wasn' ; t a whole lot went on. WN: You mean you weren' ; t interested in the girls or anything? CH: No, not then. WN: (Laughter) Well what did you do for entertainment? CH: Well, there wasn' ; t much. I' ; ll tell you there wasn' ; t much. Just go for a walk and things like that. I can remember on Sunday a whole bunch of kids would go out about this time of year, huntin' ; first little ole flowers to come out. Out here on-- right about where the hospital is, where we' ; d all congregate and wonder around. WN: Well, my mother used to say they enjoyed walking at the railroad tracks. CH: Yeah. WN: Did you ever do that? CH: I expect I have. WN: (Laughter) Well, everything is so different. Do you remember-- can you tell me about any kind of a wedding you ever went to? Do you remember your first wedding that you ever went to? CH: I think the first one I ever went to was my own! WN: (Laughter) Well did you ever read any of the officials in the-- well wait a minute, let' ; s back up. About your own wedding, where were you married? CH: Oh, I was married right here. There wasn' ; t any wedding just went in to the church, married here in the Baptist Church. WN: Did you have a shivaree or anything like that? CH: A what? WN: A shivaree. CH: Oh, married here and left out in an hours' ; time. I was working (Indecipherable) in the oilfield at that time. WN: Well did you know-- lets back up then. Did you know any police officers or sheriffs or federal marshals or-- CH: I knew-- I knew (Indecipherable) which is an old time (Indecipherable) and city police. (Indecipherable) was sheriff, what' ; s his name? Johnson (PH)? EF: Lee (PH). CH: Lee Johnson (PH). EF: You knew Allen (PH) too. CH: Allen (PH). EF: I' ; m gonna bring up that story when you was on the pipeline. CH: Oh. EF: Tell her about that-- CH: Jessie Allen (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: Jessie Allen (PH)? Oh tell me about-- CH: He wasn' ; t a police! EF: Tell her that story. WN: Oh, he was a marshal wasn' ; t he? EF: Marshal. WN: Well thank-- CH: Well not Jessie Allen (PH). EF: Well now go ahead and tell that story. CH: Jessie Allen (PH), Indians raised him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: and he married an Indian and he was almost an Indian but he wasn' ; t. And they-- I was just a kid and I was working for (Indecipherable). EF: Lumber yard. CH: Lumber-- in the lumber business and they leased a wagon out to-- to this pipeline crew to-- I' ; d haul the crew out to lay the pipeline out. Anyway, they' ; d come to Jessie Allen' ; s (PH) place out here and he come down, told em' ; they wasn' ; t gonna cross-- and this-- and this crew foreman told me he said " ; Go on across kid!" ; I was just a kid, probably fifteen, sixteen years old and I said, " ; No, not me that' ; s Jessie Allen. (PH)" ; and he had a rifle across' ; d his saddle of his horse and this guy says " ; Well we can' ; t get him to talk to us." ; and I said " ; No he was Indian raised and he' ; s just that much Indian." ; And I said, " ; I' ; m not driving across' ; d there." ; And I don' ; t know how it was straightened out but he stopped em' ; and they had to come back and get the-- EF: Three or four days you had-- they had-- CH: Yeah, they held the whole crew up three or four days but this pipeline guy was going on across and he' ; d a shot him sure of the world, cause he' ; d already shot several people as far as I (Inaudible). WN: Did you ever-- did you ever have any confrontations with any of the Indian youth around this area? CH: Indian? WN: Yeah, I noticed where the Indian youth played baseball a lot of times. CH: Yeah. WN: The Yuchi' ; s. CH: Yeah. We played Yuchi Indians High School a lot of times. I' ; m-- on this-- in this book he got all of these writings and several of em' ; in there about the Yuchi Indians. I remember one of em' ; especially I can kinda remember would be them 60' ; s and nothing-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --and that' ; s when the Yuchi Indians school was-- WN: At Sapulpa? CH: -- was at Sapulpa. I don' ; t believe the (Indecipherable) bacon-- ba ba Bacone. WN: Bacone. CH: Or something like that. WN: Well-- well let me ask you on the-- CH: And I played football with France Laux and he turned out to be you know quite-- WN: Yes. CH: --an announcer for-- WN: The Cardinals! CH: Yeah. WN: Saint Louis, Cardinals. Didn' ; t he? CH: He started in right here in Bristow. Announcing the-- if it hadn' ; t been for sports he' ; d of starved to death. He couldn' ; t do nothing else-- WN: (Laughter) CH: --he wasn' ; t fit for nothing. Never done a day' ; s work in his life. WN: (Laughter) Well he sure did well in the news-- CH: Yes, he did. WN: -- in the announcing business. CH: Well I played football with him for three years. WN: Well while I was reading in the early newspaper, I read something about some Snake Indians around this area. Do you remember any-- CH: Snakes? WN: Snake Indians. Didn' ; t-- do you remember a Mr. Purdy (PH)? CH: Oh! Old man Purdy (PH)? WN: Yes. CH: Sure. WN: Well, in one of his little diaries he had something about an uprising with the Snake Indians and-- CH: You mean CH Purdy' ; s (PH) dad? WN: I think it was. CH: Yeah. I remember-- I know quite a story about him. WN: Well let me ask you, what was the relationship of the early settlers, or the early people here with the Negro. CH: You know, I can' ; t tell you. It seems to me like when I was a kid we got along good with the Negros. EF: Uh-- CH: Old Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH)-- Tom (PH) somebody sold whiskey and-- EF: Tell her the story that you told me down at the-- CH: Oh tell about-- who was that (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH)? EF: Yeah. CH: (Indecipherable) Sanders (PH) was colored but he was white and I was down there one time and they' ; d like to run him to death running him so-- the colored section around to the white section. The guy at the colored section new him. WN: Uh-Huh. CH: I don' ; t know whether he was buying a ticket or trying to send some express or something, but he went to the colored section where he oughta be and that guy didn' ; t know em' ; and he thought it was white and he sent him around to the white and when he got around there he knew him and knew he was colored and he sent him back. WN: (Laughter) EF: You said he got kind of upset for it all. WN: Well during World War I do you remember anything in particular that-- how it affected our community? CH: Not particularly. I-- I was drafted, examined here, and accepted but then knew they wouldn' ; t take me because I had a bad eye but I told him-- I think it was Dr. Schrader (PH) that was doing the examining. I said, " ; I want to go anyway." ; and he said, " ; Well we' ; ll send you" ; and on the train to Oklahoma City to take our final examination and be inducted on the (Indecipherable) they turned us south and came back. WN: Oh. (Laughter) Well-- CH: They had-- they had a little National Guard troop here and its Clad Purdy (PH) was the head of that, I know that and I belonged to that and a bunch of us kid' ; s kind of like Boys Scouts, go out and stay all night and sleep out and a few things like that-- WN: But do you-- do you remember when they first opened up this as a park area here? CH: Park? WN: Uh-Huh. Do you remember anything about it? CH: About the first time I remembered about it was when that little colosseum was built down there. Where the rock-- WN: Oh, where they torn it down? That-- CH: Oh did the tear it out? WN: Yeah. EF: M-HM WN: Yeah, it' ; s gone. (Everyone talking at once) EF: You saw it this morning where the tennis courts was. CH: I know, but that-- where the stage was and the rock seats-- EF: Yeah, yeah. WN: Oh! pause in recording WN: It was at Klingensmith Park. CH: You know who this Klingensmith (PH) was don' ; t you? WN: Well someone said he was the first-- CH: He was the-- he was the son of this lady that was in the milliner store. WN: With your mother? CH: With my mother. Her son and he was the first one killed from Bristow in World War I. WN: Was he married? Do you know? CH: I don' ; t believe he was. I' ; m pretty sure he wasn' ; t. Him and Gene Wrine (PH) went together, same time. Gene Wrine (PH) was an old timer around here and he was in the sign business here for years and years. The signs still around town, he made and him and Klingensmith (PH) was together overseas and that' ; s about all I know about it. WN: But then they dedicated the park in his honor? CH: On account of him being the first one. WN: Okay, do you remember anything about the flappers in the early 1920' ; s when they went from long skirts to short skirts or? CH: Well I can remember a little about it, not too much. WN: You still wasn' ; t looking at the girls? EF: Oh I' ; ve got pictures of him with a girl under each arm out here-- WN: Oh. EF: -- in an old model eight car. (Laughter) CH: I know this, I had-- I had-- when let' ; s see the first radio station in Oklahoma was right here in Bristow at the Roland Hotel. WN: Hmm. CH: What' ; d they call it? KOX? K-- first one in Oklahoma? EF: Wasn' ; t it KVOO? CH: Yeah, KVOO right here and that' ; s where France Laux got his start and I know I made the-- what are they called? Chrystal set? EF: Yeah. CH: And it was my old Model T Coupe. About all you could do was just drive around the block but you could get the music in on it and the first radio we had, had to have earphones with it, and my mother got such a bang out of the radio you know, we took it home and put it in the great big ole-- it had to be-- couldn' ; t have been aluminum, didn' ; t have-- metal dish pan. We put the radio in that and we' ; d all huddle around it and that' ; d pull the sound back at you because of the microphone, I guess you could call it. WN: Well now, they said that they had an opera house down on sixth street. Did you ever go to any of the entertainments there? CH: On sixth street? WN: There were the gas-- electric company is right there on the corner where Dr. Harse (PH) had his-- CH: Well that' ; s where the old Abraham building-- where they had the flu people-- WN: Yeah. CH: Yeah! That' ; s what that was, the opera house. M-HM. Yeah, I remember. Oh sure! WN: And you went to some performances there? CH: I don' ; t remember-- I don' ; t remember too much about em' ; but I know I did. WN: Well, did-- tell me how was the interaction between the Indians and the whites at that time? Were there lots of intermarriages and-- CH: You know something, I was a little too young to really remember about that-- I don' ; t know! WN: Well I didn' ; t know whether they went to the same social events or-- CH: I don' ; t know. I couldn' ; t answer that. WN: Well now then, lets back up again. Do you remember how the Great Depression affected you in this area? CH: Well now you' ; re talking about what years? WN: Well like when the banks folded. Would be 1929-- CH: Well, see I' ; d already-- WN: You' ; d already left? CH: --I' ; d already left then. That was in 29 wasn' ; t it? WN: Yeah and you had-- when did you leave? CH: Yeah, in 27. WN: In 27-- CH: --Yeah I was married in 27 and moved to Seminole. And I know this, I got-- I had a little money in three different banks and they all-- all three of them went broke and I didn' ; t have much but it was just exactly like breaking John D. Rockefeller. It was all they had. WN: (Laughter) Well let me ask you this, in your early, early days do you remember Joe Abraham and-- CH: Well sure I do! WN: --and the other immigrant who came-- CH: I know Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. I worked a little for Ed in the store when I was a kid. No! Uphus (PH), it was Joe, Ed and Uphus (PH). WN: Uphus (PH), I saw that name in the paper the other day-- CH: Uphus Abraham (PH). He wasn' ; t-- he wasn' ; t-- he didn' ; t-- climb the ladder like the other two did. Ed and Joe was the-- and I know-- of course I know all of their kids. Went to school with some of em' ; . WN: Can you-- can you remember any of the stores that were on main street when you were a child? Or when you were in this area. CH: Oh I remember this, Abraham-- this Uphus Abraham (PH) and EH Mount (PH) had the grocery store and I remember another grocery store right next to-- EF: EH Mount' ; s(PH). CH: -- I don' ; t remember who run it, but they called him " ; No No (indecipherable) he' ; d had cancer and nose something and they had to take his whole nose off. (Indecipherable) you run a grocery store over there and of course HL House' ; s (PH) Hardware and (Indecipherable) Hardware-- WN: How many cotton gins were there here? Do you remember? CH: I know all kinds about three or four but to my-- I don' ; t think there was too many-- too many, but they were pretty good size cotton gins. EF: Bought a few of em' ; . WN: --Tell me, can you remember the jail? CH: Oh yeah! The old jail, now why they ever go of that and get away with that are now down across the railroad tracks-- WN: Oh! CH: -- Yeah! WN: I fought so hard to try to save that one at the city meetings-- CH: I don' ; t know why in the world that-- that hurt me more than anything else. See that was-- WN: Now I wanted to save that. I wanted them to fix a little park area down there-- CH: Well sure. WN: Don' ; t you remember that Ed (PH)? EF: Oh! CH: Well I remember when we was kids I just big enough to be kind of scary, we' ; d sneak down there at night and that was when this-- I called his name a while ago-- Jimmy (PH) (Indecipherable) was marshal. Little bitty dried up guy but boy he was a tough character I guess. Killed several people and they didn' ; t pull him. That was during the early oil boom now. That was a long about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, something like that. WN: Another thing I was reading about in the early papers ; I' ; d like to know a little more about. I noticed where we always had a big Fourth of July celebration. CH: Out here--out here, I guess where the park-- WN: Yes CH: --is now in that neighborhood. WN: and then-- EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole (PH) Park was it? CH: Huh? EF: Wouldn' ; t be Cole Park (PH) was it? CH: Cole (PH)? EF: Yeah. WN: No, it was Klingensmith Park. EF: Okay. CH: My mother would give me a quarter and tell me to have a good time and I had to spend every bit of it-- WN: And you had a good time. They were well attended weren' ; t they? CH: Oh yeah. All the politicians that' ; s here, I can remember following-- I don' ; t know who it was. I knew him pretty well, and he was connected with your dad some way. Run for sheriff one year, and I' ; d just follow him around and every time he' ; d give somebody a nickel or a dime to get a pop with, well I' ; d have my hands out. I can remember that just as well as (Indecipherable). (Laughter from everyone) WN: If you remember statehood, tell me about-- CH: Not too well see, I was just eight years old-- WN: Well, let me tell you every issue of the-- of the local newspaper somebody has stolen it and it has not been microfilmed. We don' ; t have any copies of Bristow' ; s early statehood papers. There was a paper called the Territorial Enterprise and then The Record and so-- CH: I can' ; t remember nothing but The Record. WN: Just The Record. Okay-- CH: Now who was one of the first editors? WN: Nichols (PH). CH: Nichols (PH)? WN: Yes, the Nichols (PH). CH: I remember him and her (Indecipherable). WN: Okay now tell me what you remember about Statehood. CH: I was just a kid was all. I don' ; t remember much other than it was a big celebration in coming to town and what sticks out the most is a fight they had down town and that' ; s the first time I' ; d ever seen two men fight and just absolutely bloody each other and this one down he had him down and around him beating him in the face with a brick or a rock or something and blood was just a (indecipherable) and that sticks with me, that' ; s the main thing I can remember. WN: (Laugher) EF: Well-- (Inaudible) CH: Nine years old see, you wouldn' ; t remember too much about it. EF: You told me (Indecipherable). CH: Well, there' ; s some connection there. WN: With the Oklahoma. She may have been born-- EF: Statehood. WN: Yeah, Statehood. EF: 1970 something. CH: I knew her real well but the connection-- WN: Wasn' ; t she pretty and you didn' ; t even get excited? I can' ; t believe you' ; d sit there and tell us that-- CH: See, my wife was working for Mr. Mounds (PH) when I met her. HL (PH)-- what was-- WN: EE Mounds (PH). EF: EE (PH). CH: EE Mounds (PH) yes, lived right there by the-- on the (Indecipherable)-- EF: Working at the (Indecipherable) CH: I can remember your face. WN: This-- this is-- EF: He worked-- he worked-- BN: Well, I wasn' ; t born here or anything. CH: No, but-- BN: I' ; ve been here for-- CH: Were you here in 26, 25 and 26? BN: No. WN: (Laughter) CH: I don' ; t remember you then. EF: He worked at-- you mighta went by our old Ford' ; s-- CH: Oh you worked for Ford' ; s too? WN: Yeah, he was my-- CH: Oh well then I-- WN: See he' ; s my husband. CH: See I worked for Ford' ; s when they-- I was working for-- for-- WN: Lloyd and-- CH: Who' ; d they buy out? EF: He-- CH: House (PH)? EF: (Indecipherable) CH: HL House (PH)? WN: House (PH) or Grimes (PH)? CH: The hardware. BN: He bought out Grimes (PH). WN: Grimes (PH), he bought out Grimes (PH)-- CH: Grimes (PH), that' ; s right. WN: Grimes (PH) is-- Everyone talking at once. CH: I had that part wrong. I worked for-- WN: In the House (PH) building, but-- EF: It was Grimes (PH). CH: I worked for it. HL House (PH) was in the hardware business. WN: Yes, he was-- CH: And I worked for him and then I worked for Lloyd and-- WN: And my father, Earl? CH: Earl. When they first bought-- they was from Depew wasn' ; t they? WN: Yes, they were. They were from down south of Depew. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come by and I' ; m glad we got him before he left town Ed. End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml OHP-0024-02_Corwin_Henkins.xml
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Corwin Henkins
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In this 1990 interview, Corwin Henkins (1899-1999) shares his experience of living in Bristow for the first twenty-seven years of his life. He discusses his parents making the run and settling in Bristow, along with his father’s death when he was only nine years old. Corwin describes entertainment at that time, the first radio station, statehood, and the effects of the great depression.
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OHP-0024-02
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1990-03-16
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Oral History
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Bunny Baker
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Dillard Baker
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
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5.4 April 13, 1993 OHP-0017-01 Dillard Baker OHP-0017-01 0:00-01:01:36 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Dillard Baker Bunny Baker MP3 1:|62(12)|93(2)|130(5)|149(6)|178(15)|208(13)|227(6)|240(5)|267(13)|296(6)|309(2)|337(9)|350(6)|373(10)|387(1)|413(7)|443(14)|459(5)|472(16)|493(12)|520(6)|534(11)|583(2)|607(7)|621(6)|643(15)|659(10)|680(2)|697(15)|710(2)|760(15)|778(7)|797(8)|845(17)|862(14)|873(5)|895(5)|920(1)|931(8)|943(6)|953(14)|975(5)|987(3)|998(16)|1017(1)|1038(12)|1062(2)|1082(10)|1101(7)|1127(5)|1155(10)|1168(11)|1183(10)|1196(11)|1216(15)|1258(7)|1302(11)|1320(13)|1343(2)|1368(16)|1379(11)|1400(1)|1421(4)|1431(15)|1442(7)|1461(8)|1478(6)|1495(2)|1514(8)|1530(1)|1548(6)|1567(6)|1587(4)|1605(8)|1623(14)|1634(14)|1647(9)|1665(7)|1681(8)|1695(1)|1712(5)|1728(11)|1745(2)|1759(15)|1786(3)|1817(1)|1849(9)|1867(13)|1883(7)|1894(3)|1909(7)|1920(11)|1937(17)|1951(14)|1967(2)|1987(4)|2006(10)|2023(10)|2041(5)|2051(17)|2063(12)|2075(2)|2097(13)|2121(11)|2131(11)|2142(9)|2166(12)|2186(6)|2211(2)|2229(9)|2237(17)|2255(11)|2270(6)|2296(14)|2312(15)|2338(4)|2353(9)|2369(3)|2380(11)|2404(5)|2418(2)|2443(9)|2458(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0017-01 Baker, Dillard.mp3 Other audio 369 Arrival In a Covered Wagon and Other Early Memories BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or “Doc” Baker as he is called by most people. I’m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle’s uncle. Dillard, or “Doc,” was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn’t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens’ Center and he walks everywhere he goes—to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He’s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). " ; Doc" ; Baker ; Advent Christian Church ; Baxter ; Bunny Baker ; Civil War ; Covered Wagon ; Dean Springs ; Farmer ; John Esther ; Marbles ; Merle Baker ; Overstreet ; Pea Ridge ; Schoolhouse Childhood ; Family History ; Life on the farm 585 Schoolhouse Day's BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school—well, we didn’t, didn’t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to—as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight—uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades DB: Just one that handled all of them, she—just—yeah, and they had them from the primary—well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn’t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they—knowing that you couldn’t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher’s name was? Ira Sloan ; Mills Chapel ; Schoolhouse ; Slates School 2018 Childhood on the Farm BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the—we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that’s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr—bales of hay—I mean cotton—piled up in one pile, you couldn’t get out, the creek’s all up and couldn’t get it to town to sell. But it’s about—about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there’s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their—the oldest one—well, you know Fred and—well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. Asafrtida ; Bessie Smith ; Black Draught ; Blansetts ; Canning ; Corn Shucks ; Cotton ; Log Cabin ; Malarial ; McClown ; Mills Chapel ; Punching Stick ; Quinine ; Smokehouse ; Sooner ; Spring Tonics ; VanOrsdol ; Wagon Childhood ; Crops ; Farm Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida Asafetida 2657 Army Service BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that’s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that’s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let’s see, that’s what—five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we’d just three teams, and so I wasn’t needed. So I went to—and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and—until they went to—well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that’s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that’s the same where I stayed there. And that’s where I went—was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then—which wasn’t very long. We didn’t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed—the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at—right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? American National Bank ; Army ; Camp Dixon ; Cathedral ; Cologne ; Enlisted ; Flu Epidemic ; Furlough ; Germany ; Hamburg ; Koblenz ; Lieutenant Colonel ; Merchant Marines ; New Rochelle Island ; Oil Boom ; Oklahoma Ship ; Rhine River ; Sergeant Army ; Germany ; Service 2951 Parties and Social Life BB: Well, let’s get back to your early days of—you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type— BB: What’d you do? What’d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we—the name of them I—don’t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that—that was a type of dancin’ that the folks didn’t know it, see. BB: Was it— DB: They’d let us go to a dance, but we’d go to a party and they’d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow— BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That’s— Birdie Dykes ; Chivaree ; Ms. Morgan ; Sloanes ; Smiths ; Square Dancing ; Swinging Games Courting ; Dancing ; Parties ; Social Life 3384 Courting and Marriage DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened—of course, this happened after I got back from the service—you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was—when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah—I want to get, I’ll hear about that now. DB: Well— BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin’ out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn’t—she wouldn’t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin’ around her, around her lookin’ at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never—no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That— BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was—when we got engaged? Betty Higgings ; Courthouse ; Deep Fork Bridge ; Fred Mattox ; Georgia Henderson ; John Morton ; Schoolteacher ; Staff Sergeant ; Train Courting ; Dating ; Marriage 3686 Oil and Indians BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ‘em? DB: No, not that—there was plenty outlaws but— BB: You didn’t— DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin’ out here. Dad had to—got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn’t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ‘em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin’ on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ‘em from getting’ stole. That’s what this—the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin’ fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew— BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That’s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff Drilling Rigs ; Fort Smith ; Iron Rigs ; Judge Parker ; Oil Fields ; Outlaws ; Tibbens ; Van Buren Indians ; Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Outlaws https://www.legendsofamerica.com/ar-isaacparker/ Judge Parker 4080 Christmas Of 1919 DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn’t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn’t know it was gettin’ darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye—I was—yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn’t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived—she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we’d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for—took off up there. Well, they wasn’t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, Baptist Church ; Christmas ; Christmas Eve ; Red Crocus Christmas ; Gifts ; Winter 4225 Cotton Gins and Buyers BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all—after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents— BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you’d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would—later have to cotton gin’s got to—see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you’d get in here first thing you’re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their—all had their cotton buyers. Well you’d go up there and just park. Here’d come a cotton buyer. He’d dig down in there and he’d see what kind of cotton you had and they’d give you a bid on it. You’d sit there all day ‘til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you’d leave where it’s three or four o’clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o’clock at night. Just—just how all waitin’ up here ‘til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they’d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? Abraham Gin ; Cotton Gin ; Main Street Bidding ; Cotton ; Cotton Gins 4421 Four Rose Whiskey Down The Outdoor Toilet DB: ‘Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn’t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had—the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn’t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know’d ‘em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know—that’s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they’d put ‘em in there to sober ‘em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that’s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service—I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked—I come almost gettin’ back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong—the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they—up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how—the stores, they was all separate. They didn’t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ‘em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. Artie Dykes ; Bill Chrishower ; Board Sidewalks ; Jail ; Jay Dykes ; Railroad Tracks ; Sheriff ; Wes Bay Drunks ; Jail 4846 Bristow Stores and Tobacco Use BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type— DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks—and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham—well, Joe first had the—had the first little—well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw—maybe you got one—them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember—they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he’d have ‘em—he’d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his— BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking—stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. Blood Disease ; Doc King ; Joe Abraham ; Medicine ; Mercantile ; Oil ; Sam Abraham ; Shops ; Tabacco 5144 Sickness, Health, and Hair Cuts BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your— DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I’ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I’ve never been a—even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I’d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ‘em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to—the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit—chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I’ll belch. And that’s how, that’s with chili. And just a time or two and it’s over, you know. But that’s the only thing, I never— BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that’s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn’t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. Cotton ; Doctor ; Health ; Hospital ; Malignant ; Nurse ; Pneumonia ; Service ; Surgery ; Wellington Health ; Hospital ; Sickness ; Surgery 5292 Murder and Whisky DB: They say they—all the murderin’ all that time was—I was, we’s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb—Harrison Webb had shot one of—hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where—oh, I’d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over—can’t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow—the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That’s the only murder that was—and then it was about, since 19-5, that’d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. Bill Baker ; Blacksmith ; Harrison Webb ; Murder ; Railroad Tracks ; Red Bird ; Shot ; Train Depot ; Whiskey Peddler 5443 Biography of Dillard and Family BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard’s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen’s Luncheons—well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren’t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the—today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I’m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. Alma, Arkansas ; Cordelia Overstreet Baker ; Crop Walk ; Dana Brideford ; John H. Baker ; Mills Chapel ; Wildflower Run Biography ; History 5590 Roustabouting and Oil DB: And then— BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin’ pipe, doin’ all kinds of manual labor. And, well that—it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin’ anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was—had that foreman’s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties—yeah, thirties. And that was just—well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building—drillin’ a new well and we’d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin’ and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move—where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved—I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. Foreman ; Lucas Pumping ; Oilfield ; Rigs ; Roustabouting ; Tibbens Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Oilfield 5733 Depression and Dust Bowl BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let’s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was— BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn’t affect us too much. We, we had—we didn’t have no money, wasn’t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that—we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods—flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill—my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That’s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at—you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and—all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon—and then at six o’clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well— Depression ; Dust Bowl ; Dust Days Dust Bowl ; Great Depression 5807 Cowboys BB: Did you know—had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy’d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule—this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we’d come to our—of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules—one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that’s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he’s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn’t. BB: Okay. Chisholm Trail ; Cowboy ; Earl Halliburton Cowboys ; Trails 6220 Mules, Whiskey and an Old Chevrolet Chevorlet ; Claremore ; Pryor ; R.D Dykes ; Tulsa ; Wes Christian Driving Mules ; Marriage 6480 Sorghum and Sugar Cane BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid— DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well— BB: A lot of people don’t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane—you have to— BB: You raised sugar cane. Jim Dowdy ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane Crops ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane 6713 Grandparents and Memories BB: Well, what’s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad’s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad—your dad’s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He—he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved—I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that’s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn’t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that—as far as—that’s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother’s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky Ducking ; Julia Ann Creekmore ; Sewing ; Shamrock Grandparents ; Memories 7153 Dillard Baker in the 90's . And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I’ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin’ to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don’t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don’t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there’s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there’s somebody out there that I don’t know, if I don’t know any of ‘em, I try to make it three times a week and then there’s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you’ll run into some friend that’s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That’s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin’ home, not knowin’ nothin’ about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ‘em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ‘em on their high shelves, none of ‘em can reach ‘em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that’s wrong with ‘em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ‘em and if they don’t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I— BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? Advent Christian Church ; Airplane ; Choir ; Deacon ; Groceries ; Hospital Airplane ; Church ; Cleaning ; Hospital ; Sick Elders 7414 Siblings and Birthplaces BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn’t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ‘til—well I quit playing when, when—oh, I played up ‘til forty-something, I don’t know, in the forties. BB: What would—you had—there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children— DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard— BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie—Bessie— BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don’t remember what Marie’s—if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. Arkansas ; Baseball ; Bessie Gertrude ; Clyde Alexander ; Creek County ; Deep Fork ; Dillard Roy ; Marie Ophelia ; Oval Lee ; Teepees ; Wayne L. Birth Place ; Childhood ; Indians ; Siblings In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow Interviewer: Bunny Baker (BB) Interviewee: Dillard Roy Baker (DB) (1899 - June 21, 1996) Other Persons: Unknown Man (UM) ; Terry Howe Baker (TB) (October 16, 1928 - ____) Date of Interview: April 13, 1993 Location: Transcriber: Melissa Holderby Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0017 Sides A& ; B and OHP-0018 Sides A& ; B Length: 01:01:36 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or " ; Doc" ; Baker as he is called by most people. I' ; m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle' ; s uncle. Dillard, or " ; Doc," ; was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn' ; t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens' ; Center and he walks everywhere he goes--to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He' ; s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). BB: And your mother? DB: Cardy (ph). Cardy (ph) Cornelius. BB: Overstreet was her last name. DB: Yeah, Overstreet, yeah. BB: And where--were they born in--where were they born? DB: They was born in--both of ' ; em right around Dead Springs there. BB: Okay. Do you remember the year they came to Oklahoma? DB: Yeah, 1905. BB: Nineteen-five. And how old were you? DB: Seven. BB: Seven? And how did they travel when they came to Oklahoma? DB: Covered wagon. BB: How many? One or more? DB: No, it was three. BB: Three? DB: Mmm-hmm [in assent]. It was us and a fellow by the name of Baxter (ph) and then another guy--there was three families. BB: Yeah. DB: That come together on that trip. And we was twenty-eight days coming out here. BB: From Dean Springs? DB: Yeah. We was twenty-eight days going a hundred--I mean two hundred mile, on account of the water. There was no bridges, you know, and they had to wait until creeks and branches went down before we could cross. BB: What type of work did your father do? DB: Farm. BB: He was a farmer? DB: Farmer for life. BB: Was your mother a midwife? DB: Well, she wasn' ; t a--registered or nothing like that, but she helped an awful lot of times. And from the time I was fairly old I had to go with her, because I was the oldest and if it happened at night and she was afraid to go by herself. So-- BB: What' ; s the favorite stories you remember of your parents telling about their early days? DB: Well, near about the earliest I can remember hearing them talk about was, oh, nineteen and I' ; d say ten--nine and ten--they used to tell us about there was a church house about eight mile from where they lived, and they all went to the schoolhouse and the only one that--where they went to church? Well, she used to go with a guy, and so this time when they went there, why she went with another guy and he come with another girl. And that' ; s the way they met there, and they was already engaged to be married, you know. And it seemed like that caused some confusion. (laughing) BB: I' ; d think so! DB: But that' ; s about as early--that' ; s about all I can remember. BB: Was your grandfather or your--anybody in the Civil War that you know of? DB: No. No, they wasn' ; t. There was a battle that was fought about four miles from where--where I was born. There' ; s a battle. Not major battle, just a little further over up there at Pea Ridge, they had that battle, you know, but-- BB: Have they told you, or do you remember any stories that they told about those days? DB: No, I never heard them mention it. BB: Do you remember them telling any stories about slave days? DB: No. BB: Indians? DB: No, there was no Indians back in there. BB: Okay. DB: They didn' ; t know what an Indian was until we started out here and got into Indian Territory. BB: Okay. What was your favorite toy as a child? DB: Well, our toys then was all made toys. I don' ; t remember daddy ever buying us a toy when we were a little kid. Other than that, we got--oh, I' ; d say [indecipherable] and I. Just before we come out here, that' ; d make us about five and six. Well, I mean he was five and I was six, you know. There' ; s thirteen months' ; difference in our ages. And dad come home one day with this little axe, one of these little axes, hand axes, you know. And it was a small one. And that' ; s the first present I can remember getting. And he took it away from us pretty quick because he looked out there and we was chopping on a tree in the yard. (laughing) DB: Yeah. BB: What was your favorite game as a child? DB: Marbles. BB: Marbles? DB: Yeah. BB: And what was your favorite food? DB: Well, I' ; d say peaches, apples, fresh fruit. UM: Fresh fruit. DB: That--I mean, it still is, of course. BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school--well, we didn' ; t, didn' ; t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to--as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight--uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades? DB: Just one that handled all of them, she--just--yeah, and they had them from the primary--well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn' ; t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they--knowing that you couldn' ; t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher' ; s name was? DB: No, that--one of ' ; em was Lamb (ph), and he was from Arkansas. But he was--I don' ; t remember the first one. All I remember about the first time down there--Ira Sloan (ph), she was about four or five year' ; older than I was, and--well, she was my girlfriend. We' ; d play together and we was the two oldest. I was the oldest boy going there at that time and she was the oldest girl. And, so she was up in a higher grade, of course. But we was--we paired off together and I got caught writin' ; her a note one time. And I didn' ; t write any more when the teacher got through with it. They didn' ; t believe in talkin' ; in them days. BB: How did she punish you? DB: Well I got a paddle! BB: Did you use slates, chalk, pencils, or what? DB: They [indecipherable] regular pencils. Slates to start with, and then of course we graduated into regular pencils. BB: Do you remember what subjects you studied? DB: Well, we only had reading and spelling and arithmetic. And geography. Course there was reading and spelling until you was about in the second grade, then you started on these others. And then you had geography and arithmetic--I mean, the--they had grammar. They' ; d call it two of every--draw everything on the board, you know, and big sentences running all over the board. Which never did do me no good. (laughing) BB: What about your school--well, how did you get to school? DB: Walk. BB: Walk. How far did you have to walk? DB: Three and a half miles. BB: What about your school lunches? DB: Well, they was biscuits and sausage and we always had to take--we took milk. One time--I know we did because one time--they was put in gallon buckets, you know, and there was four of us going at this time, and two of--two of our lunches were put together in one gallon bucket. And so that time, when we started to eat dinner, I had mistakenly got ahold of a gallon bucket of milk. That' ; s what I had. (laughing) DB: I remember that one. BB: Was that all you had? DB: That was all I had! Yeah! BB: The wrong bucket, huh? DB: I thought, that was the wrong bucket! And old Wayne (ph), he wouldn' ; t let me have none of his. Him and Bessie, there for a while they' ; d--when Marie got big enough, of course Bessie and Marie took their dinners [indecipherable] you know. But that [indecipherable] later before Marie come in to it, she wasn' ; t going to school then of course. BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the--we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that' ; s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr--bales of hay--I mean cotton--piled up in one pile, you couldn' ; t get out, the creek' ; s all up and couldn' ; t get it to town to sell. But it' ; s about--about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there' ; s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their--the oldest one--well, you know Fred and--well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. BB: Nineteen-eight. DB: Mm-hmm [agreeing]. BB: Do you remember what the price of a new wagon was back those days? DB: No, I remember dad buying one, this was in 1911 was the first time we ever bought a--we ever bought a new wagon. But we bought the other stuff at the same that that he bought me a saddle, he was ready to start raising mules and he bought me a saddle to break ' ; em with. And it was all on the same--just packaged up with the wagon, ' ; cause--but I know he bought one. That was one of the old high wheel wagons. And then I know he bought one of the rope wheel--iron wheel wagons the next year--or maybe ' ; 13--that had where you turned--where it could turn around with. It took an acre to turn around with them old high wheel ones, you know. BB: Yeah. DB: ' ; Cause they wouldn' ; t really bend. BB: Do you know what brand some wagon it was? DB: Well, the first one we got was a Sooner. BB: Oh? [pause] Okay, what crops did you raise, Dillard? DB: Cotton, corn, kaffir corn, and milo maize, oats--for feed, you know, had to raise your own feed to make the next crop with. And so that' ; s about it. [indecipherable] for sorghum. We always had our sorghum and molasses, and-- BB: Do you remember what--when they went to town for groceries, do you remember what groceries they bought? DB: Well, they bought flour and coffee and the staples, things like that because we raised all the rest of the stuff, you know. And that was just it--flour and the coffee and the meal--we' ; d shell the corn, get up on the mule and take it to the mill and had it ground, you know. And we' ; d give--it' ; d cost us so much meal to get it, they took their wages out in meal. And that' ; s the way, that' ; s where we got our meal. BB: Did you work in the fields? DB: Yeah, from the time I was--I went--I done my first climb when I was a three-and-a-half year old. I can remember back that, to then. Can' ; t go beyond that. But dad was a breakin' ; land. Ten acres was a big crop for one horse back by then, and he was using an eight-inch turning plow, and one horse. We had an old sorrel one-eyed horse. And so [indecipherable] the house about a hundred and fifty yards, something like that, and mom asked me if I wanted to take him a drink, and I said, Yeah. Well, he saw me a' ; comin' ; , ' ; course he sat down on the plow and waited for me, and he got ready to go, he said, You want to plow? And of course I did. I couldn' ; t reach the handles but I could reach the bar that, you know, run acrossways there. And I don' ; t remember how far I plowed but anyhow it was until the plow fell over. (laughing) DB: And that' ; s that. That' ; s as far as I went. BB: Did you, did you have to help with the milking? I assume you had cows? DB: Yeah, yeah. I helped ma milk cows. BB: How old were you when you started milking? DB: Well, when I was about eight, well I--she sold cream and we were--nobody got no cream in the coffee, it was milk. And after the cream was skimmed off of it, you know. And it was my job every morning to take one of those old-time tin cups, beat it down to the cow lot, and milk enough milk for the coffee. That was my job in the morning while Liz (ph) and mom was gettin' ; breakfast. I' ; d run down there and milk that thing full of milk and mom would strain it and I' ; d put the cream in the coffee. BB: How many cows did you milk? DB: Well, it' ; s from one to three. Just according to the pasture we had. ' ; Cause most of the places you didn' ; t have enough pasture on there. BB: You farmed all the land, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I' ; d say it was, not counting dad and mom, there was eleven of us and we farmed about ninety acres and it took three teams to keep us going. ' ; Cause we raised all the meat and had chicken, eggs, geese, [indecipherable] and all that kind of stuff, you know. BB: Did--I assume that you chopped and picked cotton? DB: You' ; re not kidding! (laughing) DB: Oh, highest day of picking was 427 pounds. BB: I was gonna ask you how much you could pick in one day. DB: I didn' ; t pick that every day, but--because I had to--like I said, I had to help do the milking and stuff like that before I could get to the fields, see. And dad had to get on ' ; cause we always had the hands down there. And Wayne was always bragging about beating me at picking cotton, but he did because he got down there an hour before I did. Well, dad turned us loose that day and he told me, he said I' ; ll settle this. He said, you guys get down there, same time, and play at the same time, and then he said, that' ; ll settle this argument. So Wayne--I got 427 and Wayne got 421. BB: Well. DB: And he found two rocks in Wayne' ; s sack! (laughing) DB: Sure did! BB: As a child, can you remember any particular ornery thing that you did that was outstanding? DB: Everything! (laughing) BB: And how were you punished for it? DB: Same way! (laughing) DB: You had to go get your own switch at that time. That' ; s what they used for whipping. I think the first times I really got the biggest kick out of Wayne and got a whipping with it, he never would hunt, he never would fish, but he' ; d go with me when I' ; d go out to the horses in the morning in the pasture, sometimes he' ; d go with me if I had a hook set up and then we' ; d run the hooks, you know, and then bring ' ; em back in. One time I caught an eel about five foot long. He thought it was a snake. And so when I turned it around, why, he started running. He was afraid of it. And I took after him. Had that eel a' ; hanging on the end of that pole out there, you know, I took off running up to the house. My dad heard him a' ; yellin,' ; he come out there and went up there and never said a word, he just took that eel off of that hook and gave me a durned good whipping with it, just like a black snake. Then he hung it to the--nailed it to the post, skinned it, cleaned it, mom put it in the skillet, when it began to get hot it began to jump around--you know how frog legs will jump? Well that' ; s what that eel will do! And she--she thought something was wrong and just throwed the skillet and all out the door! (laughing) DB: But that' ; s--and about those--something--oh, about that time, the first thing in, I mean, thing happened that' ; s still in my mind just as clear as it was the day it happened: one Sunday afternoon--and like I said, we always had to make our fun, whatever we was doing. Well, there was a place at this [indecipherable] where they was building their first bigger building here at Mills Chapel--in brick. And they was gettin' ; sand out of there, and they had a hole--a cave out where they was diggin' ; out that sand. Well, man, a little girl by the name of Smith--Bessie Smith--was under there and Orville (ph) he was under there so far, and so when--' ; cause he was right close to the edge. Well this whole thing caved in. A big stump on top of it up there. And it buried her and it buried him in there. But he was close enough where we dug him before it smothered him. But it killed her. And, so we dug her out and there was a fellow there by the name of McClown (ph), and he was going to carry her, she was eleven year' ; old. She had a big crush on me and I had a crush on her sister. So (chuckling), but anyhow--I just picked her up and the bones was just crushed to where they' ; d pick her up and she' ; d just go right down between--it took two to carry her, you know, her [indecipherable] had broke up so bad. BB: Well. DB: And that has stayed in my mind all these years, just clear as it was that [inaudible]. BB: Well, you went to Mills Chapel before it became a brick-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What was it before that? DB: It was just a--made out of one of the [indecipherable] fixed at the--sawed at the lumber mill. BB: Okay. And what--did you ever live in a log cabin? DB: Well, no. Grandpa lived in a log cabin when we come out here, and he lived about a--nearly a quarter north of Mills Chapel. And we come out here that fall and stayed with them. And they had a big old log cabin--two big cabins with a big hall went between though, like they build ' ; em back then, and a kitchen was on the back. But there was two log cabins. They had a lot of log cabins. BB: The kitchens were separated-- DB: Yeah--no they was built on just a slope, built off from the top of the house. BB: Yeah. DB: The house would run like that and they would just run--just like this would be here, and they' ; d just run that kitchen right on back out [indecipherable] I don' ; t know what they used. Well, yeah, they may have [indecipherable] Surely they had a--one of them outfits, you know, a-- BB: Froe. DB: Froe. BB: Froe. DB: And a maul. And they' ; d hit that froe there and then go to workin' ; like that so it' ; d split them [indecipherable]. Yeah, I' ; m sure they got ' ; em. BB: What-what--how was your house furnished when you first remember? DB: Very poorly. We had the necessities, what it took. We had--most of the mattresses was made out of shucks. BB: Corn shucks. DB: Corn shucks, yeah. You would hear ' ; em rattling when you turned over, you heard ' ; em all over the house. And so then most of the kids slept on pallets. We never had over one bedroom until we got--it was later, until--in fact, that' ; s all we lived in that I know of. And most of the kids slept on pallets on the floor. And then we had--there was tents, just with hay and a cloth spread over the hay for a floor, you know. We lived in those, too. Then they got to where they' ; d box the tent up about [indecipherable], you might' ; ve saw some of them. Box a--put a floor in ' ; em and box a tent--I mean [indecipherable] one of the [indecipherable] and then put your tent over it, you know, and that way you had--down here you had lumber and then this tent was overhead. I remember, ' ; cause if it come a rain, they wouldn' ; t leak a drop but you go over there and take your finger and just go down like that, wherever you stopped, well that' ; s where that water' ; d run down in and start leaking. BB: (chuckling) DB: Yeah! We got more spankings for that when we were little! BB: So you had plenty of air conditioning that way-- DB: Yeah, we had plenty of air conditioning, that' ; s right. BB: Did your--I assume that your mother made your own soap? Made your-- DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she made all of our soap and, and she almost--well, she did make a lot of the clothes as far as us and the girls clothes, you know. And she made a lot of our shirts. And she--most of ' ; em was made out of flour sacks. And then they got to--if you remember, they got to where they got pretty flour sacks. We made everything out of ' ; em, then. BB: Yeah. DB: Pretty flowers, you remember? Yeah. BB: How did she do her laundry? And did you have to help? DB: No, I didn' ; t--other than carrying, drawing water, haul it out of the well and carrying it and keeping water in the pot--you know, they used to--well they' ; d use a rub board on a bench. And then they had a--some water sitting there in another tub that they would rinse them in. Then they went in to a big--one of them big old black pots and boil ' ; em. That' ; s where they boiled ' ; em, they used a stick to boil ' ; em, I mean-- BB: Punch it down. Punching stick, they called it. DB: Yeah. A punching stick, that' ; s right. BB: Yeah. DB: Broom, looks like a broom handle. BB: That' ; s what it was! (laughing) BB: Yeah, ' ; cause we had ' ; em too. DB: Yeah. BB: Okay, did you do your own butchering? DB: Yeah. BB: Both hogs and beef, or-- DB: No, we never did, we never did kill our beef. But there was people around in them days--and they found out something that was really good--if they was gonna kill a--they used a cow, they never used, they never used young stuff--they' ; d take a cow that was pretty poor, just run down, you know? Put her up and fatten her and right quick and you had the tenderest meat that you--you couldn' ; t buy meat like that. But just all that meat was put on right just fast, see, and it was really tender. And then they' ; d put it in a wagon, put some brush over it and keep the flies off of it, the son would take off around the country and you' ; d go out and tell ' ; em what you wanted, where you wanted to get it, and they' ; d take an axe and cut it off from that old cow. BB: Well. DB: Now they quartered it before, so they could handle it, see. BB: Was your primary meat pork? DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mama used to cut up--I know one time, the most I ever knew of her cuttin' ; up was four twenty-gallon lard stands full of lard. And that year we had six hogs we cut up that weighed average 600 pounds apiece. BB: Now, how did you go about storing them? Butchering them and then storing the meat? DB: Well, you take a--which, as you know, with-- (laughing) DB: We' ; d always had a smokehouse and--which is generally made out of logs, and there would always be a bench in there and you put your--first you went in there with your fresh meats and you salted down, just covered it in salt, and the ham shoulders--there was all of it, you know. And then after that, what they called ' ; took salt,' ; why then give it a good washing and--with warm, soapy water--dried it good, and then put that--well they had a salt, a curing salt, and you could either get it with sugar in it or you' ; d put the brown sugar and rub that all over them hams and on--you remember how good that ham, that gravy was? BB: (chuckling) Sure do! Okay, you want to tell us how grandma rendered the lard? DB: Yeah, in this big pot I was telling you--in this big pot that-- BB: Did she render it outside? DB: Yeah, outside, yeah, over--outside the fire. BB: In the big black pot? With the fire built in there. DB: I stirred that ' ; til I was--thought my arm was gonna go in a circle after it come off! BB: Okay. Did you help in the kitchen? DB: Well, other than wash dishes. Because I began to wash dishes pretty early. Mama, she' ; s always a baby there every year or two. Well, Wayne and I was the closest, as I said, thirteen. Then about every two year it was. They were--so the last one was still a baby, you know, had to be took care of. And so they--I' ; d--when they' ; d go to town on Saturday after I got up in size, why, I didn' ; t care about going. Well, I' ; d stay there. I cleaned up and I washed the dishes and then we always had that cornbread and milk for supper. And I' ; d do that and I' ; d have the cows up and feeding done by the time they got home. And then I' ; d get on a horse and I' ; d go to town or somewhere. BB: What was your mother' ; s favorite recipes? Your fav--in other words, the-- DB: Well, I don' ; t-- BB: Other than cornbread. (chuckling) DB: Cornbread was the main one, I' ; ll tell you for sure. ' ; Cause she had a--kept a--there was some kind of a milk pie. She' ; d take--cook pie crust and set--start off that, put that in its place. And then she made it with milk and spices and it' ; s all stirred up, and it got kind of thick, and then she' ; d fill that pie crust to about half full, and then she set another pie crust down in there and do the same thing, sometimes I saw eight and ten crusts! BB: Well! DB: In one pie, see? BB: I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: And mostly, we liked vanilla flavoring. That' ; s what she' ; d flavor this milk with when she did it. Ahh, they' ; re great. They just--when that soaks in that crust? And you cut that out and then--' ; course you can eat it with a spoon or whatnot. But you cut it just like you' ; d cut cake. And that stuff was all smoked in the--I mean soaked into them, them crusts. And you would never taste anything that tastes better. And she had that then--she could do that, and that was dessert for the whole crowd, you know. The whole family. BB: What was the difference between stove wood and wash wood? DB: Well, wash wood was brush, mostly. You' ; d--the wash wood that we used was small limbs that was too small to cut up in stove wood length and rick up or something like that, you know. But we always' ; d knock the little limbs off of it then put that in there. And so that' ; s what we used for that. And the stove wood was cut--well, [indecipherable] about twelve inches long and then split into little small sticks--slabs, you know, and-- BB: In other words, your wash wood was scrap wood. DB: That' ; s right. It was just scraps and-- BB: Yeah, that' ; s what we-- DB: --and Mom used to save wood. Why, she used to save cobs--corncobs, you know--and burn them. We' ; d go in for dinner--so you' ; d have to do something quick if you went in to dinner, you know, in order to get back out in the field. She worked right out there with us. And so that' ; s why--that' ; s down there where used them corncobs. They made a hot fire, and made it quick. And ' ; bout all she had to do was warm up a lot of stuff. Sometimes, she would cook the full dinner and then we' ; d have our leftovers for supper. BB: Mm-hmm. DB: To go with cornbread and milk, you know. BB: Did she roast her own coffee? DB: Neh. No, we never did roast it. Always bought the beans, and we had that--one of them kind of square coffee grinders, you know, had the little drawer in it? [tape distortion begins] BB: Mm-hmm. DB: And you can grind that. And you' ; d grind that--and you' ; d grind that coffee so much--you' ; d grind that blame little deal under there and [indecipherable] it looks like--but you' ; d grind that full every morning for a pot of coffee. BB: (chuckling) DB: And then had to put so much milk in it, you know, to drink it. BB: Didn' ; t go far, did it? DB: No, it sure didn' ; t! BB: And she canned her own things-- DB: Oh, yeah, she canned. Oh, everything, I mean! We put sheets on top of the house--or shed-- like the kitchen I was talking about, and dried fruit, apples, peaches, and apricots, and we had a lot of that dried fruit. And then all we had to do was put it in sacks like, maybe like pillowcases, you know, and tie the end up and put it up in one of the rooms or something [indecipherable]-- BB: Do you remember how many cans of fruit you picked? Usually, per year? DB: The most I know that we canned was 600 quarts. BB: Goodness. DB: And that' ; s a lot of fruit. BB: [Indecipherable] DB: [Indecipherable] apples, peaches, plums, apricots, blackberries, and [indecipherable] she canned a whole lot of little potatoes, and put ' ; em in beans, when she canned beans, now she' ; d put them in beans, there, and [indecipherable]. I remember that year, she had went overboard, and she still had some, so, and she' ; d give the neighbors [indecipherable]. [taper distortion] DB: --and she had--forgot what I was talking about, now. BB: The canned fruit. DB: Oh, the canned fruit, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: And, but--was her own canning food was the worst and it was 1920 when they' ; d gone to town one day and she had about 300 cans in the cellar out there at the old place, you know where they moved from? And went home that night and she' ; d told dad to go down cellar and get a can of sausage. You know, you used to can sausage--put a little grease in ' ; em, turn ' ; em upside down so it' ; d seal the lid. He went down there and somebody had cleaned the cellar out while she was gone to town that day. And all the time that I' ; ve lived there, or I mean lived in Oklahoma--that was the first time they' ; d ever been bothered, anything' ; d ever been stolen. But you talk about a woman mad, that was one mad woman! BB: (chuckles) What about home remedies? What diseases and sicknesses did you all have, and she treated? DB: Well, I most type of the fevers-- BB: How did she treat them? DB: --Well most of it, for several years when we was kids, was chills. And so we had fever, you know, with them, them chills. Them chills was, was malarial. And quinine was the main--as dad used to say, when they was picking cotton, why we' ; d all be picking, he' ; d say, Come on, kid, and get your food, and he' ; d take out a quinine bottle and his knife, open the blade, and dip--get some quinine on the blade of that knife, put it on the mouth and then we' ; d take a sip of water to wash it down with. You talk about a bitter taste! Oh, boy! But that' ; s what we had to do. BB: Did you she give you spring tonics? DB: Yeah, we had--I probably can' ; t think of it now-- BB: We had black draughts. DB: Oh, we had that, yeah! That black draught! You' ; re not kidding! BB: (chuckling) DB: But there was some other kind of a tonic, was a just really a kind of a soupy stuff, and I hated that worse than-- BB: None of it tasted good! (chuckling) DB: No, none of it tasted--that asafetida you had around your neck didn' ; t smell good, either, when you went to school! BB: Did she make you wear that? DB: Ahh, all winter! BB: What did it have in it? The little bags? DB: It had asafetida! You ever smell asafetida? BB: No! DB: Oh, Lord! BB: What' ; s it made of? DB: Oh, I mean, it' ; s asafetida, I guess! (laughing) DB: But you can smell that stuff--I tell you, it' ; s just something. And you wore it all winter, see. BB: Oh you did? DB: Yeah! That-- BB: To prevent colds, or what? DB: To keep off the cold. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And you wore it just like you wear necklaces. Strapped around your neck--I mean tied around your neck with a string! And all the kids wore ' ; em, so you didn' ; t smell ' ; em, ' ; cause-- BB: You didn' ; t smell any worse than anybody else. DB: We all smelled just alike. ' ; Cause nobody' ; d take a bath or [indecipherable]. BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that' ; s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that' ; s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let' ; s see, that' ; s what--five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we' ; d just three teams, and so I wasn' ; t needed. So I went to--and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and--until they went to--well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that' ; s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that' ; s the same where I stayed there. And that' ; s where I went--was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then--which wasn' ; t very long. We didn' ; t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed--the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at--right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? DB: Norfolk! Yeah. And so we was lined up there, getting ready to go on a trip, and take examination before--you had to take a examination before. And there was twelve of us lined up to take examination, and this doctor--which was a sergeant--I mean a lieutenant colonel--and before he got in there, phone rang and he went back and the war was over. They' ; d told him. Well, we' ; d enlisted for the duration and he turned us right around and we right around and went to the pay window and got paid off before we ever put on a stitch of clothes. That' ; s how quick they got us out of the Merchant Marines! BB: Well, when was it that you went into the Army? Before that? DB: Nineteen--no, I was nineteen after I come back. BB: Yeah. DB: From there. We come back and I got to thinking about it, and it was the only time that I' ; d ever have a chance to go over, you know, to that country, anyhow, and so, they--that army of occupation--remember them talking about the electrical coming over in and, was over in Germany on the Rhine River there for thirty-two months. BB: Okay, now tell me about this incident that happened in--May 13, 1920? DB: Well, there wasn' ; t much to it. It' ; s just--all I done was just went out a ways in that waters from out there, jerked off my coat in from out there and got that--picked up that baby, and-- BB: Did it fall in the water or what? DB: Yeah. It fell, fell out of the boat into the water. BB: Oh! DB: And it was floatin' ; ! The river was up, up big. And it was up to the banks of--way, way up there. And so, then of course, when I got--I could get to the bank with it, I had to swim, I couldn' ; t turn, they kept going down the bank, I had to swim at an angle and--with that baby--and so--I said baby, it was about a two-year-old. And so that was what it was all about. And then of course there was many that helped there, to, you know, that helped me out-- BB: Helped get you out, then. When did you come back from the army of occupation? [break in recording] DB: --we were talking about the Rhine. BB: Yeah. DB: Well, then the next summer, why the river got so low that the [indecipherable] was up normal, I bought a place there, it was four story high and built like a castle. I was gonna make money there, I was gonna rent it out to soldiers, you know, make kind of a rooming house out of it. Well, the outside just kept a' ; going down and going down and finally dried up and it was sitting there on dry ground! (chuckling) I was sitting there with nothing, just an old house sitting on a dry ground. But anyhow, when I bought that, I first took out forty marks to the dollar. The first dollar I got over there paid--we' ; d exchange it for German money, got forty marks to the dollar. And then the last one that I changed I got sixteen thousand. But you see, the stuff hadn' ; t gone up any higher. You could buy stuff for the same price at sixteen thousand for the dollar as you could for, for forty for the dollar. And then we was kings, that was all, really rich. And really had a time. And so, you' ; d get a good meal. Of course it was horse meat, we knew that. But then you could get a good meal for about seventy-eight cents and I [indecipherable] there and I got a shave every morning and a haircut every Saturday morning for inspection, and the highest barber bill I ever paid was seven cents. I kept a room--they' ; d pull out cards, you got white, blue, and red--and pink. Well, you started at the bottom and then you build yourself up. You got a white one, you didn' ; t have to stand on formation on Saturdays, Sundays--of course, you know, on Sunday they don' ; t have it. On Saturday. You didn' ; t have to be in bed on Saturday or Sunday night, all you had to do was be there Monday morning, you know, for revile. And so I went downtown and got a room in a hotel, there was a sitting room and a little--wasn' ; t a kitchen, but a sitting room and a library and bedroom. And it cost me twenty-five cents a month. So I kept that for, oh, I don' ; t know, several months. And anyhow, she began to talk around and [indecipherable] lip, this that and the other, and I asked one day, what was the matter with her? She said that she was gonna have to raise the rent. And I said, Why don' ; t you? She said, Well, she was afraid I' ; d leave and that was because it was after the war and the town was full of empty rooms, you know. And she--I asked her how much, I said, Tell me how much? She said, Well, she' ; d have to have so many marks, I don' ; t remember, but anyhow after that I had to pay twenty-seven cents instead of the twenty-five, you know. And you could get about a hundred miles from Koblenz to Cologne, they had big cathedral, a big cathedral up there. And I used to go up there and we had to leave on Saturday morning so we could stay all night up there and have Sunday to run around. And we was supposed to leave there, leave away from there at twelve o' ; clock midnight on Sunday night, but the train didn' ; t come in there ' ; til about 12:30 and of course there' ; s a [indecipherable] in the depot, why those MPs didn' ; t say nothing to you if you didn' ; t bother ' ; em. But anyway, we just barely get in, take just about around six hours to--for that train to go that hundred miles. We could' ; ve picked up every milk can and delivered every empty milkcan and everything else. BB: When did you get out of the Army? DB: (pause) Must' ; ve been--I just don' ; t know. [Inaudible] I sure don' ; t. BB: Do you have any idea how many--about how long you were in the army? DB: Well, I was in the army for thirty-two months--about three year. Three year. BB: Three year. DB: I was overseas thirty-two months. BB: Yeah. DB: I got a furlough. See, I come home from Germany on a furlough, month' ; s furlough, and then when, when I went back to New York--I was stationed on New Rochelle Island out just about, oh, eight or nine miles, something like that, from New York City, out in the ocean there. And they had--that' ; s where they had the guys come in. That' ; s where they landed, went out there. And so I put in, when I went back, for a furlough on a Sunday--I mean a Friday night. And I was supposed to [indecipherable] some mail to Hamburg, Germany. And I went in, and the major there in the office, he told me, he said, Baker, he said, There' ; s nothing I can do about it, said, These orders come from overseas, and he said, Ain' ; t nothing I can do about it. Well, Monday morning when I was supposed to leave I had my bags packed full of stuff, of course, I took it up there and I--and that' ; s one thing I swore to do, you never go by a blackboard without looking up there to see if he was on duty. And then he knows what to do for the day, [indecipherable]. And when I got up there, I looked up there, and I' ; d been transferred out to Camp Dixon, New Jersey. [Indecipherable] somewhere, you know, so that' ; s where I spent the rest of the time. That' ; s where I went back on furlough. I was gonna surprise dad and mom and all of ' ; em on furlough, and I had a pocketbook that the girl over there had got me for Christmas. And I had my money in it--you had to show three hundred dollars, for that' ; s enough to get you from New York home and back. And then they took care of getting to the boat and the boat ride, so you didn' ; t have to pay for that. And somebody got it, stoled it. I was using that--they used them--the lifeguard was blocks, about that thick square, of some kind of foam, and it had that ducking so [inaudible]. And I split one of them and put this pocketbook in there. Well, when we get there I want peanuts. I told the guy I' ; d pay for it, and we [indecipherable] and he said okay and well, I went to get the money and there wasn' ; t a bit in there, somebody' ; d got every bit of it. So when we got in there I had to call dad, have him to cash bonds at American National Bank, send to me for I could come home, see. BB: Well, let' ; s get back to your early days of--you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type-- BB: What' ; d you do? What' ; d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we--the name of them I--don' ; t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that--that was a type of dancin' ; that the folks didn' ; t know it, see. BB: Was it-- DB: They' ; d let us go to a dance, but we' ; d go to a party and they' ; d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow-- BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That' ; s-- BB: Really square dancing, wasn' ; t it? DB: And then that square dancing, yeah. But I can' ; t remember what we played, one of ' ; em was you ran a ring around and then you had some kind of cards and you drew these cards and then you had a judge sitting over there and you drew these cards. You hand to him and he would pair you up to somebody, then he was to judge whether--with a girl, see, a boy and a girl. And he was to judge and [indecipherable] you go out to the gate and back, or you do this or that, something like--just some silly thing, see. BB: Yeah. DB: And that--I don' ; t know what they called it, but that one, we played that one. BB: Well, what was the rules on courting? DB: Well, wasn' ; t a whole lot. Of course you didn' ; t go to courting no ten or eleven year old, stuff like that. BB: How old were you, and the girls too, how old were they when they were allowed to be out with the boys? DB: Well, dad never did--he never did say a word to me about--him or mom either one, about when I started courting. Because when we, when we was walking--we' ; d walk to church over there from that place, and the Smiths lived on the right, one of the girls I was talking about getting killed. And the Sloanes lived up about three quarters of a mile up the other way. Well, I come in, they both was afraid to go home in the dark. I' ; d have to take this one home, the Smiths home first ' ; cause that was just a quarter, see, then I' ; d come back and have to take Ira (ph) home and come back. BB: (chuckles) DB: That was every time we went to church, that' ; s what happened! BB: You walked ' ; em home. DB: Yeah, I walked ' ; em home. And that was where I just got in the habit of it and then Birdie--you remember my cousin, you know, Birdie-- BB: Birdie Dykes. DB: Yeah, Birdie Dykes. Me and her was just like two peas in a pod. I mean, we was together every minute we could. But a lot of Saturdays, why, I started over there and me and her' ; d come over to our house. We hunted, we fished, we done everything together. And so lots of times I' ; d go over there when [indecipherable] night when there was gonna be a party somewhere, you know, and then we' ; d go to the party and then I wouldn' ; t have to go back across the creek. So it just, it just--for me it just come in natural. And I didn' ; t get a riding horse until I was about fifteen year old. And however, dad would take--we had a little team of ponies, he called ' ; em ' ; cultivator ponies,' ; and he' ; d--that was after we got to going to dances, you know. He' ; d take them out at noon, he wouldn' ; t work ' ; em that afternoon and let them rest that afternoon for us to--me and Wayne to ride to church--I mean to dances. BB: Did you ever go to a chivaree? DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What did they do at chivarees? DB: Well, they--well it was before, before, what they done before a chivaree! (laughing) BB: (laughing) DB: But we never could find out! You know, did you ever know [indecipherable]? Well, we went to their chivaree, one time. Let' ; s see, that was in--in nineteen-and-sixteen. And so, wouldn' ; t let us in the house, we was knockin' ; on the door and they wouldn' ; t let us in the house, [indecipherable] hollered, Get away from here, and stuff like that. And, so we finally--Ms. Morgan--she owned that, that' ; s her--her place, she opened the door and let us in. And then she had to make them open the door to the bedroom. And [indecipherable name], you know how she' ; d talk, some of ' ; em said, What the heck was you thinkin' ; about anyhow, she wouldn' ; t let us in here? She said, I don' ; t know, but we wasn' ; t thinking about no chivarees! (laughs) BB: (laughing) DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened--of course, this happened after I got back from the service--you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was--when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah--I want to get, I' ; ll hear about that now. DB: Well-- BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin' ; out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn' ; t--she wouldn' ; t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin' ; around her, around her lookin' ; at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never--no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That-- BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was--when we got engaged? BB: Mm-hmm. DB: Well, I was twenty-two. BB: How old was she? DB: Twenty. And she was engaged to Fred Mattox (ph). And so, at that time I was riding with twenty-two girls. Oh, I mean forty-two girls. BB: (laughing) DB: And a staff sergeant, and I would write--back then paper was just--as Terry (ph) knows--was just thin as, as a tissue paper. And you could write twenty copies at a time. And I' ; d write twenty letters--I wrote two letters! Two of ' ; em got the originals and the rest of ' ; em got copies! BB: (laughing) DB: My buddies would give me their sisters' ; address and their cousins' ; address and so I was the only one, really, in the whole bunch that showed any sign of Christianity. And so, the highest school--Sunday school--highest number I ever had in Sunday school was 500. Was right out in the street with, just, right off the street there. And then I got this Mary (ph), I kept writin' ; to her, and her letters just got--well, like I said, [indecipherable], see? And we' ; d then, we' ; d run around together all the time, just in groups. And I never walked her home in her life, and I never had a date or nothin' ; , and so [indecipherable] standin' ; out and I just cut the rest of ' ; em, you know, and I just write less often, and I was writin' ; to her, and I kept a' ; writin' ; to Betty Higgins (ph). UM: I don' ; t think I remember her. DB: You didn' ; t know her. Well, she never [indecipherable] and he--Levi, her husband--I mean, her brother--was about my age and Betty was--and Bessie was about the same age. And mom wouldn' ; t let Bessie go to parties and stuff then without--or dances--so I went with her, so I decided to go with her. And, well, and the same way, about Higgins, and so--naturally I' ; d walk with Betty and he' ; d walk with Bessie, you know. Well, that Betty, she was a mess. But anyhow, to make a long story short, she wrote me a letter while I was in Germany, the night before she got married. I didn' ; t even know they was goin' ; together. John Morton, you remember him? Well, that' ; s who, that' ; s who she married. And she (laughing)--she wrote me one of the durndest, mushiest letters you ever read! Well, I just fired one right back to her, you know? And John got ahold of it. Man, that sucker wouldn' ; t speak to me for two year after I got back. They got married the next day after she wrote it! They were already married before she got my letter! And I sent that mushy letter! (laughing) Both of us just fun, you know, it didn' ; t mean a thing, I didn' ; t--she was just a friend, that' ; s all she was to me, because she was too durned--oh, I don' ; t know. Now this might--the schoolteacher was a young schoolteacher there, and so we' ; d have things to do of a week. Literary on Wednesday night, you know, where we' ; d have Bible study now. And I' ; d walk her home, see, now nobody' ; s going over there and I' ; d walk her home [indecipherable] and I' ; d come right over the hill to the house. And, well, she was going to give a party to where she stayed. And Betty knew it, and so I went over there to pick her up to go to this party. And I said, Well, [indecipherable] or two. I said, We gotta go if we' ; re goin' ; get there before this, this party' ; s over. And she said, You' ; re gonna stay here, [indecipherable] you and the party. And I said, No, I ain' ; t either. And she said, Doc, there' ; s a party here. And I said, Well good, just give it--goodbye! I just took off! Because I' ; d already been invited to that other--she' ; s just doin' ; that just for meanness, see? And she did, she had her a party that [indecipherable] other at the other party. BB: Well. Where did you and Edna get married at? DB: Courthouse in Bristow. BB: In Bristow? And-- DB: We, we stepped up there, I had a suit at the laundry, and she had the dress up there, we wore old clothes, and we got a little train into Bristow. We changed clothes after we got in Bristow. Her brother went to the--up to the courthouse with her. I followed afterwards. We got married. He took her down and I waited a while, went down, we both went and changed back clothes. Got back on the streets, she went one way and I went the other. And then when she got with the girls, why, of course we was watchin' ; , see, when they got with the girls, why then, I went down there, and we acted just like we' ; d just met. And so, we rode that train back out home-- BB: Now, which train are you talking about, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: What, what train are you talking-- DB: That little train out from Bristow to Slick. BB: Okay. DB: That went down through the country. BB: The one that the tracks went south of Bristow? DB: Yeah, south of Bristow and we crossed it down--you remember where we used to cross that railroad track? BB: That crossed just north-- DB: The other side of Deep Fork? BB: Yeah, north of the Deep Fork bridge-- DB: That one, yeah, run right through them bottoms on there. BB: Okay. DB: And, so there was [indecipherable] farmers down there then, you know, and there was a branch there you could sit on and that was the depot where you waited for it, you know, to arrive. And we went home and we got there about four or four thirty, and so we sat there and talked for a little while and drank some lemonade. I took off for home, and I didn' ; t see her for a week. BB: (chuckles) DB: [Indecipherable name] and Georgia Henderson was gonna--they' ; d been goin' ; together for years--and they was gonna be the next to get married. Well, I just thought let' ; s slip up there and get--off and go up there and get married, and that' ; s how come we was to not see one another for a week after that, just to keep them from knowin' ; . And then we really could pour it on ' ; em when they found it out, you know. BB: Yeah. Let' ; s see, and you and Edna just had the one son, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. He' ; s sittin' ; right over there. BB: Yeah. What' ; s his full name? DB: (laughing) BB: Terry-- DB: Terry Howe. H-O-W-E. BB: And when was Terry born? DB: When was you born, Terry? TB: Twenty-eight. BB: Twenty-eight? TB: Twenty-eight. DB: Yeah, in twenty-eight, but what--August the sixteenth? TB: October. DB: October, wasn' ; t it? Yeah. October the when? TB: Sixteen. DB: Sixteen. Yeah, I [indecipherable] next time. BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ' ; em? DB: No, not that--there was plenty outlaws but-- BB: You didn' ; t-- DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin' ; out here. Dad had to--got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn' ; t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ' ; em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin' ; on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ' ; em from getting' ; stole. That' ; s what this--the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin' ; fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew-- BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That' ; s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff like that was, was sent to, there was--see that, Indian Territory, that was government. And he was a government judge, now, a federal judge. And the only one that was around. And this stuff was all sent to him. I mean, all the people were. And I saw his old hanging tree. Of course it' ; s nearly all dead now, but the bowl (ph) was still there last summer. BB: In Fort Smith? DB: In Van Buren. I mean, in Fort Smith, yeah, on there right there on the Arkansas River banks, [indecipherable]. BB: Do you know whether or not the Indians was for or against statehood? DB: I never did, and I never heard ' ; em say, they' ; d never given us no trouble, and--of course, that' ; s all we had to play with was colored people and the Indians, you know. And of course the Indians didn' ; t go to school, and well the colored people didn' ; t, either. There was that little old school house when we first started. But the Indians had a mile and a half north--west of where lived in nineteen-eight. And which is three mile and a half south of town, two miles east, and a half a mile north. You know where that old Indian stomp ground is over there? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: Well, that was a big, big Indian camp. There was teepees all over that place. And they would get big dinners and we' ; d, we went over there to different stomp dances, you know, and a big time, big [indecipherable]. And we' ; d go over there and--it was just [indecipherable] fact, when the dinner got ready, the whites eat first and then the Indians would eat, and then the colored people eat. BB: But everybody was welcomed? DB: Everybody was welcome, yeah, everybody was welcome, but that was--and you' ; d tie a horse up out there--well, first [indecipherable], but used to be one at Gypsy? Remember that, when I was talkin' ; to you about it over there? I used to go there, to tie a horse up out there somewhere. Next morning he wouldn' ; t be there, all you had to do was go down to the barn down there and he' ; d be in there in the stall area, eatin' ; hay. They' ; d take ' ; em down there and unsaddle ' ; em. First time they done that, man, we was [indecipherable], we just knowed our horses had been stoled, you know? BB: You worked in the oil--when did--you worked in the oil fields, when did you start working in the oil fields? DB: Nineteen seventeen. BB: And did you-- DB: At Shamrock, the hill camp, Shamrock. BB: Was it for Tibbens (ph)? DB: No, it was for the, it was for a private Frenchman that was tearing down oil rigs, buying oil rigs and tearin' ; ' ; em down, and then rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d--see, they' ; d rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d tear them, make them rigs out of wood, the drilling rigs. Then that would be tore down and them little iron rigs, you know, to pull rod and tubing, oh you saw them all over the country, [indecipherable] come later. And I was sittin' ; in on top of that thing, in grandpa' ; s cornfield, and he come down there and he said, What in the hell are you doin' ; up there? Well that scared the dickens out of me, I knowed I was just blowed up. And I got down and he wanted to know where I lived. And I told him, and, he said what I was doin' ; up there? And I--no, he said, now, You want a job? And, How old are you? And I said I was nineteen. And so he said, Well I can' ; t hire you at that--at that age. And--or I would' ; ve been ninetween in a little bit. But anyhow, that' ; s what they [inaudible], so he said, You got anybody up here? And I told him my grandfather lives up there, and he said, Let' ; s go talk to him. Well, he asked him about it and he said, No, I was buildin' ; rigs, said, Tearin' ; down that rig. He said, I want him to tear down that rig, so I went to tear the rig down, and I want him to pull the nails and stack the lumber, that' ; s what he told grandpa. So it was alright. That was my first oilfield. BB: When did you start to work for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Nineteen twenty-six. BB: What did you do working for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Well, you know, it was all rigs then, there wasn' ; t no jack-- [tape ends, beginning of second tape] DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn' ; t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn' ; t know it was gettin' ; darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye--I was--yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn' ; t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived--she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we' ; d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for--took off up there. Well, they wasn' ; t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, and we was in their bed. And she saw us, boy, she took the cover off of us and gave out a yell and you talk about coming out of it, we did, you know. So she had us get in another bed so they could have their bed. And we got, took off for home. And then way after (indecipherable), the old man that we lived--or leased off of, he was an old Indian fighter, and he was a mean sucker. So them days, when you got your corn gathered for your--well, if it was betweenst that and your cotton, you know, and then turn your stock into this cornfield so the grazing' ; d save you feed. Well he told dad he couldn' ; t do it. And dad told him, you know, dad kind of went to town and got him one of those .22 six shooters (laughing). And I looked down there and that old man sat there, back to a tree with a shotgun, wherever he was gonna start putting this fence. So, dad, he slipped around down there and he kept lookin' ; at him, and finally he convinced his self that that old man was asleep, sittin' ; there leanin' ; up in that tree. So he slipped up there with a six shooter and took the gun away from the old man. Then the old man had to--he had one of those spells, he just couldn' ; t do anything anymore. Just, I don' ; t--what, what made him do it, but anyhow. And after he got over his mad spell, why, he said, Oh John, let' ; s get this fence fixed. He come out there and worked right in in helping us fix the fence, you know. Then his son sold the gun after that. Then he didn' ; t have it no time more. So, but, his oldest son--sold it. BB: Did you have Christmas trees? DB: Yeah. Oh, we went out to cut ' ; em. BB: Yeah. DB: Yeah. BB: What--how did you, how were they decorated? DB: Oh, we' ; d pop popcorn and we' ; d make strings, big long strings of popcorn on threads, you know. And we' ; d go to the woods and get them little red berries and then we' ; d go put (indecipherable) in the bottoms and there was a little bunch of--there was a little flower, bunch of flowers come up and they' ; d have the two little red--red crocus--that' ; s what (indecipherable) called ' ; em. And then there was a winter something, they called ' ; em. That' ; s when they bloomed was in winter. Of course, it would freeze after the--there was a hard freeze, you know, and we found some of them. Stuff like that, that was the only thing we had. Never thought about buying anything. BB: Did you exchange gifts? DB: Yeah. BB: Did you make your gifts, were they-- DB: Well, yeah, but they--dad, mom, they made ' ; em, you know. Most of ' ; em was socks, dresses, stuff like that. And maybe, when dad' ; d get two little sacks of candy, we' ; d get sticks of candy, a candy apiece, you know. And they' ; d get their sacks of them, these little--nickel apiece, two sacks of nickel--course (indecipherable) candy sacks. And that' ; s about the only gifts they exchanged. BB: What did you use for overshoes in the winter? Did you buy oversh-- DB: Flour sacks wrapped around your feet. BB: How' ; d you keep ' ; em on your feet? DB: Tied ' ; em on there with baling wire. Yeah. BB: That was all the overshoes you had? DB: That was all the shoes I ever had. We had--a little later, we had rubber boots. You could get around wet with ' ; em but you better not start nowhere in snow or something, I mean, your feet would nearly freeze off and then (indecipherable). But--see, when it snows, that sack' ; s tied around (indecipherable) (laughing). BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all--after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents-- BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you' ; d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would--later have to cotton gin' ; s got to--see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you' ; d get in here first thing you' ; re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their--all had their cotton buyers. Well you' ; d go up there and just park. Here' ; d come a cotton buyer. He' ; d dig down in there and he' ; d see what kind of cotton you had and they' ; d give you a bid on it. You' ; d sit there all day ' ; til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you' ; d leave where it' ; s three or four o' ; clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o' ; clock at night. Just--just how all waitin' ; up here ' ; til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they' ; d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? DB: Yeah, sold it to the highest bidder. And it' ; d be long line lined up down at the gin. I know dad got so (indecipherable) mad one time, I went with him to take in a load of cotton and we waited, got in line, and so that--there was five or six wagons in line. Like I said, you had to unload it by hand, you know, throw it in them windows. Well I got hungry. Dad didn' ; t come back. And I got hungry and so I drove my team out to the side and went in there and he come back. Well, it hadn' ; t been unloaded and there it was. So it was still in line, you know. He didn' ; t like that much, either. [break in tape] DB: ' ; Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn' ; t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had--the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn' ; t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know' ; d ' ; em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know--that' ; s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they' ; d put ' ; em in there to sober ' ; em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that' ; s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service--I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked--I come almost gettin' ; back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong--the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they--up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how--the stores, they was all separate. They didn' ; t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ' ; em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. BB: They weren' ; t connected. DB: No. I remember one time, daddy was working at Shamrock, that' ; s before I went up there. On Saturday he' ; d always bring a quart of Four Rose Whiskey with him. Me and Jay Dykes (ph) and Artie Dykes (ph) and Wes Bay (ph)--that' ; d be the, make the four of us. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And we' ; d buy--we bought ice cream, we' ; d spike it with that whiskey. BB: (laughing) I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: We vomited all over that town-- BB: (laughing) DB: Old Bill Chrishower (ph) was the Sheriff and I was the only one that had a coat on. Well, when we come out of there I had to have that in my hip pocket, see? And you know, the coats were spread back then? And old Bill hollered at me. Man, I took off down between one of them (indecipherable) buildings, just as I got to the corner up there, he got to the other corner up there, and he hollered and said, Should I getcha? You know, he said, Cover up that damn bottle you got in your pocket! Me and--one time, old Artie, he was just about to finish up a bottle, and threw it. We was--threw it down in the toilet. The toilets back then--we' ; d go in there and drink. BB: Outdoor toilets? DB: Yeah. And so he just started to take the direction of (indecipherable). One of ' ; em said, Here comes the law. Man he just dropped that right down in that hole, you know. (laughter) He sure trusted whoever--I (indecipherable). BB: I wouldn' ; t think so. DB: Ah, boy. BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type-- DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks--and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham--well, Joe first had the--had the first little--well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw--maybe you got one--them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember--they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he' ; d have ' ; em--he' ; d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his-- BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking--stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. DB: Just stuff-that' ; s all. Just had cooking, cooking stuff. But in a year, went from there to a horse, and of course from that to a buggy, and then to a car. But then there was a little confectionary on the east side there--that' ; s where the guy, that' ; s where I got the first good chewing tobacco. I was eleven then. Dad was working out there on the tank farm with a team of horses. We had a little team of mares and they built them big pits around them tanks, you know, to keep the oil from leaking out--to hold the oil? Well them big horses--the dykes just about that wide on the top, you know, them big horses tired down and the others, they could walk along there. And so my lip then--nineteen ten, eleven twelve, oh, later part of eleven and the first part of twelve--what right there would have a big knot and it come up right there and break, and it' ; d go from there to the corner of my mouth and just turn wrong side out. And they' ; d get so bad sometimes and dad wouldn' ; t even let me go to school. And I' ; d go out and plow all that off with salve on that lip and a piece of cloth over it, and holding that cloth on there with my upper lip, see? Well, dad come home once after he left and went to work up there and I' ; d finished up farming. He come home on Saturday night--' ; course he did every Saturday night, of course, he' ; d stay all night--and he said, Well, dad you get ' ; er finished? And I said, Yeah. And he said, Well I talked to the boss, said, said You can drive the team and I can work (indecipherable) and I' ; m ready to get you some crew clothes. So we went up there the next morning--well that night though, Sunday night, Sunday evening, dad called Doc King and he come down there to the office, and he was the one that drew this salve and stuff got for my lip. So he looked at that lip and he said My! Well after he looked at it and turned me loose--and I went on down and rounded up with some of the kids I knew that I was playing with, you know, here in town, so with them--so he asked dad, said if I chewed tobacco. Or used tobacco. Dad said, well, he said, probably like any other boy, why, he was (indecipherable) and stuff like that, said, I don' ; t know, I never saw him. He said, Well, he said, I hate to put any kid on tobacco, but he said, Nicotine is the only thing in the world I know that' ; ll cure that mouth. Said, He' ; s got some kind of a blood disease. He said we' ; ve never found out what that (indecipherable) you know, medicine. But he said-- BB: Who was the doctor? DB: King. BB: Oh. DB: Doc King. And so he, he cut that--he got a pound, went in and got a pound of Beech-Nut plug, that' ; s what he used. He cut half into it and give me half of it. Well, I thought he was pulling my leg, you know, and I said, I don' ; t use that stuff. And when he told me what King said, well, of course, first time or two I was so sick I couldn' ; t hardly do nothing but vomit and, well I finally got used to it. He said I' ; d taken too big a chew. So I guess I started off with--I know I wound up taking too big a chew, my whole jaw' ; s full and here--but anyhow, when that half pound of tobacco was gone I had one little spot right there and I went and got a--he got another (indecipherable) for it, they had them dime squares about like that and they was marked off and then you' ; d cut one of ' ; em (indecipherable), looks like a, oh a, well it' ; s just a big handle and you put--lay the tobacco down there and there was a (indecipherable) and this knife, just put it right down and it cuts it and leave the wrapper on it too, didn' ; t cut that stuff-- BB: It wasn' ; t wrapped or anything. DB: Huh? BB: The tobacco-- DB: No, no, no, it was just (indecipherable) laying over there. And so that--(indecipherable), I still didn' ; t care about chewing tobacco. And so I found out dad, when he come--it went about middle of school and started getting sore again. It got sore again. And somebody told me--I don' ; t know whether the doctor told dad or dad told me or not, but he said, If you' ; d rather, when it gets that down, we could roll him some cigarettes then there' ; d be enough (indecipherable) in the cigarettes to hold it down for a while, and said, What' ; s next. I never could chew tobacco in the house, I couldn' ; t spit and hit a tub, I' ; m telling you, it was all over the floor. I don' ; t think I ever chewed tobacco and taken--standing in the door, maybe, talking to (indecipherable) you know, when I was working, before when I left, because (indecipherable) got back home, you know, but-- BB: Did you ever smoke, Dillard? DB: Yeah, I was smoking cigarettes then. I smoked for around, ' ; til nineteen seventy-two. ' ; Til-- BB: That' ; s quite a while, wasn' ; t it? DB: Yeah, and I chewed all the time, too, you know. And--oh, but I worked so much by myself, and you wouldn' ; t--[indecipherable]--but, if you' ; d get out with a cigarette, or just chew tobacco, [indecipherable] good drink or a good warm kind of water and take you a smoke then take you another drink, well you could go back and work a long time. It was company! Really company. Then after we moved up yonder, I was going day and night when [indecipherable] and I was--I kept a pipe in my mouth. Edna said I just smoked once a day, and that was from morning ' ; til night. BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your-- DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I' ; ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I' ; ve never been a--even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I' ; d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ' ; em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to--the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit--chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I' ; ll belch. And that' ; s how, that' ; s with chili. And just a time or two and it' ; s over, you know. But that' ; s the only thing, I never-- BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that' ; s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn' ; t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. DB: About ' ; 65. Well, anyhow I, I wouldn' ; t tell [indecipherable]. Boy, I was just a' ; dyin' ; nearly then. Just wanted to go to the toilet there all the time, you' ; d go and not a drop. And so when they left I called Chapman and told him, and he told me I needed to hospital. And I did, gave me a catheter. Well, I got along pretty good after that for a little bit, and then it hit again. That time, well, I wore the catheter for a week and it was a little one, that tube was too dang little, and [indecipherable] leak, and then that turned to crystallize, and that was eatin' ; me up. And I called to ' ; em, I said, That durned stuff' ; s eatin' ; me up, with that little tube in there leakin' ; down in there. So I asked ' ; em, they said, Well you know how to take it out, don' ; t you? And I said, Yeah. Well, okay. And anyhow, the next time it hit it was so thick, he said, I' ; m not gonna take no chances on it. Said, I' ; m going to Tulsa. Sent me up there, went Sunday evening and the intern come in there before I went to bed, take my fever and stuff from the nurse. And I was having fits. And the nurse said, Well you' ; re not touching him, and she went back and got a doctor. And he come back and he had--he had to drill that catheter in there, then, that pus was so heavy that it just--drilled in-- BB: It wasn' ; t malignant or anything. DB: No, it wasn' ; t. He finally got through and he told me, he said, Baker, I wouldn' ; t touch that with a ten-foot pole with a knife. He said, I just wouldn' ; t. And I laid there ' ; til the next Monday morning. Around ' ; 65,' ; 67, somewhere around there. BB: Did you ever have any serious illnesses other than that? DB: Pneumonia. Well, when I was eleven--when I was nine I had pneumonia. And then that fall I had pneumonia, a pneumonia fever, and started school and had to go back. And that' ; s when I started turning gray. My hair was just black as the dickens and when I was four or five year old it had curls hanging way down here, you know, two in front and three behind. BB: You-- DB: Mama wouldn' ; t stand the curls, she-- BB: She wouldn' ; t cut your hair, and you were four or five years old? DB: Yeah! They were never been cut! BB: Did she ever put dresses on you? DB: ' ; Til I was four year old, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: That' ; s the [indecipherable]. I wore dresses ' ; til I was four year old. And when--[indecipherable] they' ; d make fun of ' ; em, about my hair one time. And I did have pretty hair! BB: And it came down past your shoulders. DB: Yeah! It hung way down here, you know. BB: Black and curly. DB: And mom and dad rode right in one evening, they' ; d been down to Indian Springs, went home and they was gonna chop a little piece of cotton over there, finish up cotton or something. And of course, I wasn' ; t big enough then to, you know, go and work the field. And boy when they got out, I got them scissors and I got a hold in there, I chopped it off just as fast and hard as I could up there. And this side the same way, you know. We couldn' ; t get the-- BB: So you-- DB: I thought mama was gonna have a fit when she come in there. BB: [chuckling] DB: Lordy, lordy. BB: So you got rid of your long hair, right? DB: Yeah. That' ; s right. I sure did. [break in recording] DB: They say they--all the murderin' ; all that time was--I was, we' ; s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb--Harrison Webb had shot one of--hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where--oh, I' ; d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over--can' ; t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow--the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That' ; s the only murder that was--and then it was about, since 19-5, that' ; d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. [break in recording] DB: And he would hide that whiskey all over town. BB: Now this was your whiskey peddler. DB: Yeah! Yeah, he lived right up here. And [indecipherable] Tom liked to have a pint of whiskey. Now you go right up here and look in the such-and-such board, under a rock, it' ; d be there. And he was, okay, I' ; ll do it. And the depot, in the men' ; s room there was loose board under there. And you' ; d go up there. And if it was gone or it leaked or anything, go tell him, I mean he' ; d clean it up. Bill Baker' ; s, he had a blacksmith shop down here, [indecipherable] stuff up there. He' ; s sitting on his--one of those one-wheel planters? Tom come by and he told him, he called out and said, Tom, said, We' ; re about ready to go. Said, I' ; d like to have a half pint of alcohol. Tom said, Okay, Mr. Bill! He said, When I get goin' ; , just lift that lid there and reach down into there--and he sat right over it all the time, you know. BB: [laughing] UM: [laughing] DB: But yeah, they called him Tom Abraham because he worked for Tom--or Abraham. They called him Tom Abraham. And they' ; d arrest him and take him to Sapulpa and we' ; d all--bunch of us' ; d be out at the depot, you know, he' ; d say, Don' ; t worry, boys! He said, I' ; ll be back quick as hare, and sure enough he' ; d come back here. And I don' ; t know whether he paid fines or what, but he always come back here. They never left that guy in Sapulpa. UM: Hmm. [break in recording] BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard' ; s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen' ; s Luncheons--well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren' ; t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the--today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I' ; m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. [break in recording] DB: And then-- BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin' ; pipe, doin' ; all kinds of manual labor. And, well that--it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin' ; anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was--had that foreman' ; s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties--yeah, thirties. And that was just--well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building--drillin' ; a new well and we' ; d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin' ; and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move--where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved--I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. DB: Yeah. And you went south there, you know. Had a big tower over there. And I lived over there. And then I went back to the Tibbens in another house on the west side, and then I was moved from there to a house on the--I mean, out on the east side. And by that time I was repairman. And we' ; d be called out all hours of the night. If a belt broke on one of the wells, why you had to fix it. And the foreman wanted me to be a lot closer to him, see, he lived there in that old [indecipherable] house they had there, rooming house. BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let' ; s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was-- BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn' ; t affect us too much. We, we had--we didn' ; t have no money, wasn' ; t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that--we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods--flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill--my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That' ; s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at--you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and--all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon--and then at six o' ; clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well-- BB: Was there much dust in this area? DB: Yeah, no, not that I, no--there was a lot of dust, but what I mean, it didn' ; t ruin nothing, it didn' ; t ruin everything. But it was dry, but then there wasn' ; t--there was--we couldn' ; t have been counted in the dust bowl because the dust bowl was further west of us. BB: Did you know--had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy' ; d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule--this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we' ; d come to our--of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules--one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that' ; s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he' ; s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn' ; t. BB: Okay. [break in recording] DB: Let' ; s see, got married in ' ; 22 and that was that winter of ' ; 22. Why, we moved to Pryor. ' ; Course we went through Claremore and it was probably twenty miles east of Claremore. And so we had two wagons and I drove, of course, the cattle through there and Edna drove a young team of mules, just had been broke, all the way from here plum down there, through Tulsa, you know-- BB: Now, tell us the route through Tulsa. DB: Oh, we went right straight up where it is now. Right straight up and across the 11th street bridge. That was the only one that was there. Wasn' ; t any more bridge across the Arkansas then. And eleventh street went right straight on north. BB: Was it a dirt road? DB: Dirt? Oh yeah, everything was dirt roads up there then. I guess maybe some of the main streets, I don' ; t know what happened up in the main part of town, but I mean that was--yeah, it was, it was dirt roads. And then we went--when we got to reach the side of town, on the north side--well it would probably be the east side, then we went north about, oh I don' ; t know--several blocks and then straight into Claremore. And then you went straight in to--to--what' ; s it called, I said-- UM: Pryor. DB: Pryor, yeah. From there. And come a snowfall, we was going, and we spread our tarp over some limbs and Edna and [indecipherable] and I slept in one bed, moved a mattress down there and all three of us slept in the bed that night. And so they had no trouble, just no trouble at all, there was cattle going right down eleventh street there. BB: Eleventh street in Tulsa. DB: Yeah. Yeah. And then, got up there and, well I come back to Bristow then and I was gonna farm. I bought a team of mules and-- BB: How much did you have to pay for ' ; em? DB: Oh, I paid $120 for the team. And dad had an old hack he didn' ; t think could stay together, that I got up there with, and he was [indecipherable] to use it, and I drove that thing--got in it and drove that mule from here to Pryor. I made it in two days. And of course I used--I parked most of the night both nights, but what I mean, I just stopped one night from the time I left here ' ; til I got in. And I never will forget that, I stopped at--well I don' ; t know where it' ; s named. I stopped in Bristow and got a pint of whiskey, ' ; cause it was pretty chilly. And so [indecipherable]. Wanted to know what in the so-and-so I was doing out at four o' ; clock in the morning. And I went out there, and I told him I wanted some whiskey. And so he got up and opened the door and just went back to bed and said it' ; s over there in that sack. Said, Get you a bottle and get the hell out of here, I want to go to sleep! And he wouldn' ; t let me pay for it. Well, the next morning I got up and where I' ; d put the hay--I slept on the ground, you know, in the hay. And there was a sleeve, a black overcoat sleeve, just enough that I could see it out from under the hay? And man, I mean, it was a brand new overcoat. A heavy one, layin' ; there that somebody' ; d put that hay down and slept on and just left that hay there, you know. And then forgot their coat. And I was glad to see that coat. I picked up a guy, and he hadn' ; t had no breakfast. And I' ; d eat breakfast before I left there. But I asked him, and he didn' ; t have no--just a little jacket on, and it was, like I said, it was chilly and I had on this overcoat I' ; d found. And I asked him, I told him, I said, I got some whiskey, you want a drink? Oh boy, yeah. He took a drink of it and then after a while, he said, Can I have another drink of that? And I said, Yeah. Well, we got to Claremore and we went by a restaurant there and I told him, I said, Now, let' ; s go in and get some breakfast. ' ; Cause it was getting up, oh, pretty close to noon. No, he said, you ain' ; t buying me no breakfast, he said, Boy that whiskey made me all right, he said, I' ; ll get home now. [laughing] So he--he wouldn' ; t let me buy him that meal. But it--then, to match that, I was coming from Pry--from Claremore one time, I mean Pryor one time, in an old car, and between--we got there at Claremore, getting gas, and a guy stepped up and he says, Where you going? And I said, Bristow. And he said, Going through Tulsa? And I said, Yeah. Well, it was two hours before the bus was coming in. It was hot, boy. And we started out. He passed me--I mean the bus passed us about halfway between Pryor--Claremore and Bri--and Tulsa. We' ; d had ' ; em one flat after another and a' ; havin' ; to wait ' ; til it cooled off ' ; fore we could put a patch on it, and so, we-- BB: What type of car was it? DB: Had an old Chevrolet. And old solid--I mean wooden wheel spokes on it, you know, then-- BB: Wooden spokes on the wheel? DB: Yeah. [indecipherable] And so I told him, I come out and told him, I said, Catch that thing, boy, and go on in. Nooo, he said, I started with you, I' ; m gonna stay with you. And he did. We didn' ; t get to Tulsa just at dark. We was from just around noon sometime until dark, getting from Claremore to Tulsa. And-- BB: Because of flats. DB: Yeah, on account of flats, yeah. BB: Do you remember how many you had? DB: No, I know that when the boys pulled it off, R.D. Dykes (ph) and Wes Christian (ph), they drove to town and back and so they had two flats on there, and they were [indecipherable] talking machine needles. They couldn' ; t find out what it was doing, see. And so, and there was twenty-five patches on that tube. Little patches on there. And then--that was what they put on there, see. So it must have twenty-three or twenty--twenty-two or twenty-three, something like that on there. BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well-- BB: A lot of people don' ; t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane--you have to-- BB: You raised sugar cane. DB: Yeah. And that was that yellow ribbon, that' ; s what made the best, clearest sorghum. And so you' ; d strip that thing--stuff--and you' ; d take the leaves and put ' ; em together, a bunch of ' ; em, and hang ' ; em, climb with one leaf and hang ' ; em on the ear of corn. I mean on the--lay it on the ground by the [indecipherable]. And then you went down, you cut the tops out of ' ; em. Then you cut the stalk--it was just a stick. Just a sugar cane stick, that' ; s all it was there. Then you rode it in, take ' ; em by the wagonloads to the mill, which was an old press pulled by horse and mule, and they took one guy--they' ; d pile ' ; em up out there. Pile it up. And they took so much sorghum for making ' ; em. It didn' ; t cost you no money, it was just kind of a barter system all the way through back in there. And so then they took--the guy finished his sorghum, I would have to carry the cane to the guy that was putting it in the press. He had--he sat on a block of wood there with the press and he would put that cane through there one stalk at a time. Well that juice would come out and run down there and go in a bucket. And then it took another one to carry that bucket away. And of course you had two, you know, he' ; d set one down and take that--take it away. The guys was making a sorghum. They had ' ; em in the sorghum pan and he had--that had doors to it--I mean, well, just what they called ' ; em--but anyhow this solid piece would run across over to here and then there was a little door where you pulled that down, and when you started in this last, the first one there, they' ; d cook so long there. You had a strainer, guy with strainers on each side, and they was straining that stuff off all the time as they went down and that took so long there, they' ; d let it in to the next one, and it took so long. And then he' ; d strain that. And then he' ; d let it down and they had four of them compartments. BB: Didn' ; t it have a foam on it that you skimmed off? DB: Yeah. And we had to take that sugar cane, get one of them stalks, you know, and peel it? And boy, it was just sweet, you know. And then we' ; d stir it around in them, that foam that they had in that can, whatever, in there, and lick that off. Boy! BB: [laughing] DB: That was really something. But we used to use about, around thirty to forty gallons a year. BB: A year. DB: Jim Dowdy' ; s folks, he had the four kids, they never bought no sugar. No, they used sorghum for everything. Put in their coffee and cakes, everything they made was made with--sweetened with sorghum. And they used--they used a fifty-two gallon barrel of it every year. From one making to another. BB: Hmm. DB: But you can' ; t buy it now. Now, then, they can' ; t get help. They take the seed of it, but the leaves are left on. They can' ; t, they can' ; t get nobody to work for what they can afford to pay, see. That' ; s what' ; s called strip it with a paddle. Them leaves a' ; hanging down there, and you just--that paddle, you just give it that right down one on each side, you know. And that' ; ll cut them leaves off. And so that-- BB: I know when you were eating the--sucking the sugar out of that cane, you could cut your lips real bad. DB: [Indecipherable.] You sure could! Well, I' ; ll tell you! And if you left a little--a little piece of that outside on there, you know, that' ; d just cut the dickens out of you! It sure would! Yeah. But there' ; s nothing like it. And it was healthy--I mean, the iron is in that stuff, you know, and this--oh, it was really healthy. BB: Well, what' ; s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad' ; s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad--your dad' ; s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He--he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved--I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that' ; s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn' ; t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that--as far as--that' ; s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother' ; s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky. DB: Right. No! She was born in Shamrock! I mean, died in Shamrock. BB: I mean born in Kentucky. DB: Yeah, born, yeah. I was--yeah. BB: Yeah. Do you have any outstanding memory about her? DB: Oh, yeah, she was a great old grandma, I' ; ll tell you. She--she never went to school a whole lot. She had all them boys and then all the mens' ; clothes was that heavy, oh what is it? It wasn' ; t outing (ph), it was twill kind of stuff, you know? BB: Ducking? DB: The mens' ; clothes. Trousers was made out of. And that' ; s what she used to make quilt tops and bottoms for. And put that cotton in there and sometimes she had--then she' ; d put another one of them in between. She' ; d put three of them together, see, and then sew ' ; em together. It' ; d weigh about twelve pounds. And you couldn' ; t hardly turn over under ' ; em. And but anyhow, she always loved to--chewing tobacco. And so grandpa, if he ever knew it, she didn' ; t know it. She kept it in a bucket hanging over her stove, a little bucket up there. And I used to go, she' ; d run out when he wasn' ; t around, well I' ; d run over to the store and get her--her chewing tobacco for her, you know. And I--I just--after I moved, after I moved to Shamrock in 19 and--1915, yeah 1915, yeah. Well, I wasn' ; t around her too much because went to school in the winter and there was farming in here, you know, and--but after I went to work up there at Shamrock, why I was up there in about three mile of ' ; em there, they lived in town then. And so I was down there a lot. And she was just a swell old gal. BB: And your dad, John H. Baker, was one of fourteen children, right? DB: Yeah. And six--six that died that' ; s not on record, got no record for it. BB: Let' ; s see, how many brothers and sisters did you have? DB: I had seven bro--six brothers and two sisters. BB: Okay, and you lost your wife when, Dillard? DB: Twenty-fourth of May 1990. BB: Nineteen-ninety. And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I' ; ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin' ; to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don' ; t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don' ; t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there' ; s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there' ; s somebody out there that I don' ; t know, if I don' ; t know any of ' ; em, I try to make it three times a week and then there' ; s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you' ; ll run into some friend that' ; s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That' ; s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin' ; home, not knowin' ; nothin' ; about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ' ; em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ' ; em on their high shelves, none of ' ; em can reach ' ; em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that' ; s wrong with ' ; em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ' ; em and if they don' ; t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I-- BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: Are any of them older than you? DB: Naw! BB: [laughing] DB: Naw, now they drop down in the eighties from where I' ; m at. BB: [laughing] DB: Oh, Doc Chapman--I mean, not Doc Chapman--Kelly. BB: At the bank? DB: Yeah, he introduces me as ' ; the guy that takes care of the old people.' ; BB: [laughing] DB: But I love it. That' ; s--it' ; s true. The only thing about it--just like one morning here, I got a call at six o' ; clock from west eighth. And I beat it up there. Well, that day I got to the--Bell' ; s (ph) restaurant ten minutes after twelve for breakfast. And I asked ' ; em, I said to her, I said, Can you fix me a breakfast? She said, I sure will. Said, Did you have breakfast? I said, No. So she just fixed me up-- BB: What do you, what is your av--average, what do you usually eat for breakfast, Dillard? DB: Well, my average breakfast [laughing] if you' ; ve got room enough to put it down [laughing]--my average breakfast is two or three slices of toast, or three to four small biscuits. Two eggs, that they' ; re medium. One of the big eggs and two slices of bacon--beef bacon--and a bowl of oats and [indecipherable] and a glass of milk, cup of coffee with raisins in my oats. And that' ; s about what I nibble on for breakfast. BB: [laughing] DB: And I' ; ve been doing that for years, I mean. [Indecipherable] and Dr. Chapmans would say, Stay in there, whatever you' ; re doin' ; , keep doing it. BB: It sure hasn' ; t made you gain any weight. DB: That' ; s--no! No, they tell me about the [indecipherable] effect. I' ; m not worried about no fat. BB: [laughing] Let' ; s see--and your real active in the Christian Advent--Advent Christian Church. DB: Yeah, I' ; m an elder out there, also a lifetime deacon. BB: And you sing in the choir, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I sing solos. BB: Yeah. That' ; s great. And you walk every place you go, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. And anyway within three mile, that is, if I go anywhere within three mile I, I don' ; t take no rides. And when I take my six-mile walks I don' ; t--it' ; s not a six-mile walk if I ride any of it, see. So I don' ; t--the only time I' ; ll ride is maybe if I' ; ve been out workin' ; , comin' ; home, and somebody' ; ll stop, You want a ride? Or I' ; ll go to the grocery store and have maybe a bunch of groceries, carryin' ; ' ; em home. While, they' ; ll stop and I' ; ll ride on occasions like that, but when I' ; m out for a walk, I--I just don' ; t ride, that' ; s all. BB: You' ; ve been traveling quite a bit the last few years, haven' ; t you? DB: Yeah, yeah, I' ; ve took a little ten day trip out to Michigan. And-- BB: Didn' ; t you fly someplace in an airplane out there? DB: That' ; s out there, yeah. And then I went up again this winter when I went out there. There was about a three--three-inch snow one night there in Wiscon--Minnesota, and Betty' ; s husband is in the airplane business and--he' ; s got five of ' ; em. So he--up that morning and he said, Well, Dillard, said, This would be a good day for us to go out and go up and see what we can see. We went over there and he pulled out one of them danged little old airplanes, one-engine. So we got in there and he stepped on--turned the key on to start it and the back was just dead as the dickens. Well, I thought they' ; d run off for breakfast, see, and he called up there and they come down and filled him up with gas, charged that back end, and we took off. I--he was--us--I' ; d got out and he did too, of course, and he said, Well, let' ; s go, and I thought, I don' ; t get in that thing, I want to get in that thing or not and go up with a dead battery, and he went [indecipherable] and he said, Battery don' ; t have nothing to do with this thing runnin' ; , said, All that does is start it! BB: [laughing] DB: So, we was up about three hours and it' ; d snowed, saw snow. And, so we' ; re coming--it' ; s up there, he said you could see three snows--three states from 3,500 feet where we were at. And got down and he said, Well you can tell ' ; em that you saw eleven thousand square miles of snow today. And I--that' ; s all we saw was snow. We didn' ; t see a bare foot of ground nowhere. And then one day we got in that thing and went 170 miles for dinner! That--we was all [indecipherable] way out there on the prairie and all it was out there was just a big old restaurant. And of course there was an airfield oh, half a quarter or something up back of there. Just that restaurant sittin' ; out there by itself. They had parking places like you mark ' ; em off for cars, you know, and I mean they pulled in there and parked in there. We got ready to go back, you have to--need a kicker to kick him off it would take off. [laughing] BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn' ; t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ' ; til--well I quit playing when, when--oh, I played up ' ; til forty-something, I don' ; t know, in the forties. BB: What would--you had--there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children-- DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard-- BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie--Bessie-- BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don' ; t remember what Marie' ; s--if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. DB: Ophelia, right. And then there was Oval (ph). And his name was Oval Lee. I don' ; t--Oval, yeah Lee. He didn' ; t have--there was Wayne come next in. Wayne come next to me, there, you know. I' ; ve left him out, didn' ; t I? BB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: He was, well his other--Wayne L. Wayne L. He didn' ; t have a middle name. And when he went to the service he had to have a middle name. And so he gave them Lee. He forgot about Oval (ph), Oval' ; s name of being Lee, so we had two Lees. Two brothers that' ; s named Lee. And so that--and then there' ; s Clyde. And I don' ; t know his middle name. BB: Alexander. DB: Yeah, Clyde Alexander. I never could remember Alexander. That--don' ; t hear it often enough. BB: Let' ; s see, and you are the first one, two, three-the first five of you were born in Arkansas. DB: Arkansas, yeah. The rest of us in Oklahoma, Creek County. BB: Then there was Virgil, Argil, and Basil. DB: Yeah. BB: All born in Bristow. DB: Mmm-hmm. BB: Okay. Okay is there anything else that you' ; d like to--a story or anything that you' ; d like to add to give people a picture of the early days of Oklahoma, or your early childhood? DB: Well, about the only thing I know is first, about the state, they was--this part of the country was all prairie. There was the biggest old trees, you see, around the creeks and stuff was all trees. And well, Bristow, they had a few just a tree there, and you know, Oh this tree has been set out in there. And all this scrub oak there that you see between here and Shamrock, I remember, that was solid prairie when we come out here. It' ; s just scrub oak, you know, ever since then. And, well we had an old bridge out south of town and we had a big Indian camp just a mile south of town out there, just back on the other side of Deep Fork? There was teepees all over that place out there. And-- BB: Were ya' ; ll afraid of the Indians? DB: Nah. We was raised with ' ; em, see. And there was [indecipherable], I was raised with ' ; em. And, well, Dad and I was comin' ; to town one day and we crossed the creek down below where the bridge is now, forded it, and they' ; d had a big to-do up there the night--well, it was the end of a big stomp dance deal. And there was an Indian layin' ; there and a hog eatin' ; on his face. BB: Oh, gosh. DB: And Dad went up there and told ' ; em about it. ' ; Course they didn' ; t know about it. And he went up there and told ' ; em about it, and told ' ; em, said, he was going in, if they didn' ; t agree to do something, you know, go down and get him, he was going to send the law out there. And they said they' ; d sure get him. Well, when we come back by there, he was gone. [end of recording] audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
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Dillard Baker
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In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow
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OHP-0017-01
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1993-04-13
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Oral History
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
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Carolyn Webb
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml
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5.4 September 14, 2020 Carolyn Webb OHP-2020-02 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Carolyn Webb Georgia Smith MP3 OHP-2020-02 Webb. Carolyn 1:|59(6)|81(10)|101(7)|122(14)|167(9)|207(5)|230(13)|249(14)|284(16)|327(7)|343(6)|394(2)|409(9)|448(13)|482(7)|512(11)|536(6)|577(7)|622(11)|629(7)|658(9)|693(13)|716(6)|744(11)|763(14)|816(6)|857(2)|892(2)|925(5)|936(2)|965(14)|1024(4)|1080(7)|1111(5)|1170(2)|1221(2)|1256(4)|1301(6)|1346(17)|1383(5)|1428(9)|1455(8)|1487(7)|1524(2)|1575(2)|1602(12)|1641(14) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-02 Webb, Carolyn.mp3 Other audio 0 Childhood and Memorable Businesses GS: This is Georgia Smith continuing Carolyn Webb’s interview. Today is September 14th, 2020 and we were interrupted by the battery going dead on the recorder again. So we’ve replaced a new batteries and we’re going to concentrate on her restaurant experiences that her family owned, and her recollection of the businesses because this woman has those Main Street businesses down. So that’s going to be our main concentration here as we go back into finishing this interview. So I’m gonna move this over here and okay. I’ll sit over here. So Carolyn we were talking about when you were a child and you— your dad bought the restaurant there on North Main. What was the name of that restaurant? CW: Stacy’s Café. GS: Stacy’s Café. By the way is that where you got the name for your son? CW: Yes— GS: Stacy? CW: —he’s named after my dad. GS: Okay. CW: Yes. GS: Very nice. Tell me, about how old were you when your dad got the café? CW: Probably five or six. GS: And what are your recollections of that time? Bank ; Bud Goodroad ; California ; City Hall ; Clara Bond ; Creeco Mill ; Farr's Taxi Service ; Ford's Hardware ; Frank Henshaw ; Hank Titus ; Huey Gay ; Inez Bishop ; James Neighbors ; JC Penny's ; Julian Pearl " ; Whitey" ; Masters ; Kenneth DeMoss ; Lloyd Frump ; Main Street ; Mr. Bishop ; Mr. L.L Farr ; Mrs. L.L Farr ; Pete Foster ; Pool Hall ; Railroad ; Stacy's Cafe ; Steve Bond ; Train ; Whitey's Cafe Buildings ; Buisness ; Cafe ; Childhood ; Memories https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/32034922/james-jay-neighbors James Jay Neighbors https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363654/clara-eldora-bond Clara Eldora Bond https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410365/lawrence-l.-farr Lawrence L. Farr https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410362/elva-l.-farr Elva L. Hill Farr https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25121032/lloyd-frump Lloyd Frump https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766187/franklin-s.-henshaw Franklin S. Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21273679/inez-bishop Inez Benton Bishop https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21799239/julian-pearl-masters Julian Pearl " ; Whitey" ; Masters 1224 Business School and Work GS: Okay. Alright, and before the tape went dead, we talked about you went to school here, you graduated from Bristow. You went to grade school at Washington. CW: Yes. GS: What year did you graduate? CW: ’57. GS: In ’57. CW: Uh-huh. GS: And what did you do after graduation? CW: I went to a business school in Tulsa. GS: Okay. CW: Uh-huh. And I rode back and forth with my cousin, Jimmy Masters (ph). He— he had several people riding to Tulsa with him and I paid him to drive back and forth to Tulsa. He let me out at the business school and then after school, I worked there too after I was out of classes. Mailing out envelopes and stuff like that for ‘em so I worked for part of my— GS: Schooling. Aaron Willeford ; Business School ; Chamber of Commerce ; Farm Center Building ; Garment Factory ; Jimmy Masters ; Lonnie Mcgall ; M& ; P grocery store ; Oklahoma Natural Gas ; Ruby Holloway ; Stationary Company ; The Department of Agriculture ; Tulsa ; Washington School ; Women's Lib Business School ; Chamber of Commerce ; Jobs ; Oklahoma Natural Gas ; Women's Liberation ; Working https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182271/ruby-iona-holloway Ruby Iona Holloway https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92693227/aaron-isaac-willeford Aaron Isaac Willeford 2543 Bristow Businesses GS: Oh okay. Okay. Alright, so anything else on any of that you wanna add? CW: I’m sure there is, I could talk your leg off. GS: (Laughter) Okay. Do you want to go back to naming the businesses or not? CW: Yeah! GS: Okay. CW: If you’re interested in that. GS: Yeah. I think that’s a good thing for us to have. CW: Okay. GS: You wanna start back down there from Third— CW: Mm-hmm. GS: —and Main at the railroad tracks. Just— we’ll start with the Ice Plant, I guess. CW: Okay, well the Lumber Yard was the first commercial building there at First— I mean Third and Main. GS: Okay. American Airlines ; American National Bank ; American Trailways ; Barbra Lee ; Bolin Ford real estate ; Bonnie's Beauty Supply ; Bush's Highway Cafe ; C.R Anthony's ; Cahil's Drug Store ; Candy Schop ; Chevrolet Garage ; Community State Bank ; Conoco Filling Station ; Cunningham ; Doc Smith's Drugstore ; Eddie Nesser ; Edison Elementary ; Glen Cliff ; Greyhound Bus Station ; Ice Plant ; Joe Mounce ; JT Woods Insurance Office ; Kemps Drug Store ; Lebanese ; Lumber Yard ; Lyons Cafe ; Mont McGehee ; Mr. Parrot ; Mrs. Masco ; Playmore Pool Hall ; Pop Arthurs Grocery Store ; Princess Theatre ; Red Bird Shoe Shop ; Red Wallace ; Rexall Drugstore ; Rosemary LeForce ; S& ; M Drugstore ; Safeway ; Schoolyard ; Sears ; Silver's Men's Dress ; Slyman's Grocery Store ; Stanford's Dress Shop ; Steven T. Ayers ; Stone's Hardware ; Strong's Grocery Store ; Syrian ; Tabbouleh ; Tex Slyman ; The Club ; The Globe Dress Shop ; The Gold Eagle ; The Harvey House ; The Public Library ; Thorpe Grocery ; US Capitol ; Walmur Theatre https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19543521/jinkey-joe-mounce Jinkey Joe Mounce https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26834675/charles-montfort-mcgehee Charles Montfort McGehee https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204570/eddie-nesser Eddie Nesser 2741 Memories Of Bob Webb GS: Now you haven’t told me much about you and Bob. Do you have any favorite memories you’d like to share that you and Bob have done here— CW: Oh yeah! Well I’ll tell you— GS: —in Bristow or whatever? CW: This is when I was a junior. I couldn’t date until I was sixteen. My daddy was really strict and anyway one time, Donna Cash (ph) the one that had the— her mother was the school teacher at Slick. And we would go riding on Sundays. I’d go with them sometimes, and one time we went out past Newby and she said, “Now Carolyn, there’s where you— that’s who you oughta date.” and I said, “Who?” and she said, “Little Bobby Webb.” GS: (Laughter) CW: And I said, “I don’t— well I don’t really know ‘em.” and she said, “That would be somebody good for you to date.” Because her daughter already had a boyfriend that was in the band at Stroud. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so I started looking him up at school and I thought, oh yeah, he is nice. So I asked my girlfriend, to ask her boyfriend, to ask Bob to ask me out for the FFA, 4-H— I mean FFA, FHA party. And so he did! GS: Ah! CW: And that’s how we got together. Yeah. GS: Ah and so you were dating in high school? CW: We dated three years before we got married. GS: Okay. 4-H ; Bob Webb ; Donna Cash ; FFA ; FHA ; Stroud 2839 Autographs GS: Yes, you are. Anything else you can think that you want to tell me that maybe wasn’t related to any question I ask? CW: Oh gosh, I don’t know. GS: Any famous people come to Bristow that you met or— CW: Oh I was gonna tell you, I always kept a autograph book and I still have one of ‘em. GS: Oh how fun. CW: And so I have— in fact it’s in the house. I’ve got a autograph book that’s got a bunch of the railroad men have signed it. GS: Oh! CW: Yeah! GS: That’s wonderful. CW: I’ve—they’ve—and of course I have people sign it. So I’ve got a bunch of the railroad men signing it. And then when I was in junior high I had Tom— oh the folk singer, Tom Paxton. GS: Yes. CW: For some reason, I got his signature ‘cause he was in the high school band and I’d just start— was in the junior high. I got his signature. GS: Well that’s cool! CW: So when he came back to Bristow a few years ago, I got his signature on the same page again. Yeah! Autograph Book ; Railroad ; Tom Paxton Autographs ; Railroad ; Tom Paxton In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Carolyn Webb (CW) Other Persons: Bob Webb (BW) Date of Interview: September 14th, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith continuing Carolyn Webb' ; s interview. Today is September 14th, 2020 and we were interrupted by the battery going dead on the recorder again. So we' ; ve replaced a new batteries and we' ; re going to concentrate on her restaurant experiences that her family owned, and her recollection of the businesses because this woman has those Main Street businesses down. So that' ; s going to be our main concentration here as we go back into finishing this interview. So I' ; m gonna move this over here and okay. I' ; ll sit over here. So Carolyn we were talking about when you were a child and you-- your dad bought the restaurant there on North Main. What was the name of that restaurant? CW: Stacy' ; s Café. GS: Stacy' ; s Café. By the way is that where you got the name for your son? CW: Yes-- GS: Stacy? CW: --he' ; s named after my dad. GS: Okay. CW: Yes. GS: Very nice. Tell me, about how old were you when your dad got the café? CW: Probably five or six. GS: And what are your recollections of that time? CW: Oh, I enjoyed it. My mother worked out there too, so I was up there most of the time. They-- I knew all the people that came in for coffee and to eat. The (Indecipherable) was just around the corner and down the street from us. So they came up for-- all those men came up for coffee and I remember so many of ' ; em. Hank Titus' ; s (ph) daddy was in there. Mr. Neighbors, James Neighbors that taught at the school. He worked there in the summertime. Anyway, they would all come up for coffee and pick at me and I loved it. And-- GS: Was he a pretty young man back then? CW: Oh yes. He was a very young man, probably hadn' ; t been teaching very long and then also, Creeco Mill wasn' ; t far from our café. And some of the people in there came up for lunch and I remember the Mayes (ph) boys. They were hard working farmers and they worked down at Creeco Mill for Pete Foster and Bud Goodroad and I can remember what they ate every day. They came in at noon, they' ; d eat a bowl of stew and a cold steak sandwich. GS: Ah! CW: ' ; Cause they worked so hard. GS: Yeah. CW: I remember so many of the people up there. Mr. Ford that had Ford' ; s hardware that lived-- that was just a few blocks down-- or a few stores down from us. He came in for coffee. Clara Bond, she was the secretary there. She came in for coffee, so many of the people came in-- GS: Was she a young woman? CW: Oh yes, uh-huh. GS: I think they lived on Third Street for a while. Did they-- did she live on Third Street with her son Steve Bond? CW: Now this lady did not have a son, she wasn' ; t married. GS: Okay, this is a different Bond then. CW: She was-- yeah, she was-- Kenneth DeMoss' ; s aunt. He was-- anyway there was just so many people that we knew everybody up and down that block for sure. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. CW: One of my friends, her daddy had a pool hall-- well I guess it' ; s called a pool hall-- across the street off of Eighth and Main on the north side. And when-- she was my age, a year older and we played together a lot and (Cough) excuse me. When they didn' ; t have customers in there like in the day time, I would go over there and she and I would play shuffle board, and we would play in the (chuckling) in their store room. And-- GS: Oh, how fun! CW: I know it was just-- GS: How fun! CW: --like a big family all in one block. GS: Now where was that restaurant located? CW: The one that we had-- GS: Stacy' ; s. CW: --Stacy' ; s. Okay, it was right on the alley across from what is the cleaners now? On north Main. GS: The Clean Bean? CW: Yes. It' ; s right across the alley from there. Uh-huh. GS: Okay. Okay. CW: Yeah, it was-- that was the busiest place you ever did see. That whole block. GS: I bet it was. CW: And there was-- on the alley where The Clean Bean is? GS: Uh-huh. CW: There was, right behind it was Farr' ; s Taxi Service. GS: Okay. CW: And they had a fleet of taxi' ; s I don' ; t remember how many-- GS: Wow. CW: Yeah! It was and Mr. and Mrs. L.L Farr -- I believe. And I rode around with the taxi drivers. GS: Oh my goodness! (Laughter) GS: You did have a fun childhood! CW: I did! I did! And you know, we didn' ; t think a thing about it. I' ; d ride in the front seat with them and then they would be just. They were busy all day in the evening and I just-- something to do instead of staying there in the café. GS: Yep, yep. CW: And you know, you didn' ; t worry about anything like that. GS: Yeah. CW: I just rode around in that smoky car. Everybody smoked back then. And felt like I was real uptown, you know. GS: (Laughter) CW: So-- GS: So how old were you when your dad left that café and went to the Golden Eagle? CW: I think I was probably twelve, something like that. GS: Okay and where was-- CW: Ten, maybe, maybe younger. GS: Where was the Golden Eagle located? CW: Okay. On the corner of Sixth and Main it' ; s where the D& ; D Office Supply is now. GS: Okay. CW: Oh and that was a great café too because it was busy all the time since Main Street went right through. The railroad men came and ate in our café regularly. You know, they had a stop there. GS: Uh-huh. CW: The trains were going by all the time and they picked on me. (Laughter) CW: This is a funny story. One time I was walking down to the-- down Sixth Street to the skating rink and I' ; d been working at the café all day and then I was getting ready to go skating that evening. So, this had been a Saturday night, so I got down there as far as the railroad tracks and the train men all got off the train and one of them picked me up and threw me over his shoulder. GS: (Laughter) CW: And I was screaming and a kicking all the way carrying me clear back up to the café. GS: (Laughter) CW: I was so mad because I had to walk that extra half a block! (Laughter) CW: But that' ; s the kind of life I had. It was-- GS: Ah! CW: --I mean I couldn' ; t have asked for anything any better. GS: No, I don' ; t think you could. CW: And then at night, I would-- the City had a contract with daddy to furnish the dinner for the jail, the guys in jail. I hate to call ' ; em prisoners, but anyway-- ' ; cause they was locals. But anyway we would fix up a dinner plate full of really good food and a little type of a tin cup for their coffee and I would carry that up to the jail. I would go up the alley from Sixth Street up the ally to Eighth Street on the ally to the jail. And the jail and the fire station was all in one little bitty office there. And I would carry that in and then I would sit and visit with Huey Gay (ph), he was the Chief of Police and of course that' ; s a little smoked filled room too. And then Lloyd Frump was the fireman-- Fire Chief. GS: Now was that at Eighth and Main where City Hall was? CW: Yeah, it was right behind the City Hall building. GS: Oh, it was behind City Hall? CW: Uh-huh. Right behind it. GS: Okay. CW: Before you get to the alley. And I would carry their dinner up to those prisoners and then I would sit there and visit with Huey (ph) or Lloyd Frump until they' ; d get through and then I' ; d take the dishes back to the café. And sometimes it would be dark in the winter time and man I' ; d run down that alley because my sister would tell me-- said, " ; If those jail men see you, they' ; re gonna come and get you when they' ; re out of there." ; GS: (Laughter) CW: So I would run in the dark back to the café with those-- GS: Very ornery sister. CW: Yeah, yeah. GS: Were you afraid when you were there at the jail? CW: Oh no. No, I was-- I was at home in the-- GS: Yeah. CW: I' ; d sit there in the chair with-- in that little ole smoke filled, one room talking to whoever was in there, the policeman or you know. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. CW: Back then you didn' ; t have to worry about anything-- GS: That kids have-- CW: --out of line-- GS: --to worry about today. CW: No, no, no. (Indecipherable), I mean everybody was my friend. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: Yeah. GS: That' ; s a wonderful time to have grown up. CW: Oh, I was lucky. Yeah. GS: Yeah. Okay, so any other café experiences before we start on the Main Street businesses? CW: I remember-- I remember the customers. I' ; m a tell you about this one because his-- Mr. Henshaw, Frank Henshaw. He was a really nice gentleman and he was the night watchmen at the county barn south of town and he came in every morning after he would get off, midmorning and every morning he ordered liver and onions. GS: (Laughter) CW: And he left me a ten cent tip. He was so nice. GS: Ah. CW: And he has family still here in town, that' ; s why I' ; m bringing his name up. GS: Okay. CW: Anyway, just wonderful family, the Henderson' ; s-- Henshaw' ; s. GS: Henshaw' ; s. Was that with an H-I or an H-E do you know? CW: H-E I think. GS: H-E. CW: Henshaw, yeah. And oh another customer that we had that was interesting was Inez and Mr. Bishop. Anyway, they were probably the wealthiest people in town. They had their own little bank in a real old two story building behind Penny' ; s at that time. GS: Okay. CW: Yeah, we borrowed money from ' ; em. That' ; s how I know they had a bank (Laughter). Anyway, they came in and ate in the evening on their way home. And they always ordered a bowl of stew and a piece of pie and they ate their pie first in case they got full, before they finished their stew. It was just, you know it was just wonderful memories I have of all these people. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: So. GS: When did your dad leave the restaurant? CW: We had to close it down because daddy' ; s health was really bad-- GS: Ah. CW: --and the café needed a lot of repair work and we couldn' ; t get the owner to do the repairs. He lived in California and we didn' ; t know him, and we didn' ; t even have conversations with him. He used a realtor here in town and daddy just couldn' ; t stand that realtor-- GS: Hmm. CW: --and anyway. Because she wouldn' ; t see about getting anything done so we just had to close it. We didn' ; t sell it or anything. GS: Didn' ; t sell it-- CW: We just had to close. GS: Ah. CW: Uh-huh. GS: That' ; s sad. CW: Yeah! It was. GS: Part of history gone. CW: Yeah, and then I started working for my uncle that had the café on north that we used to have. Whitey' ; s Café GS: Okay! It was in the same location, okay. CW: Yeah. GS: I didn' ; t realize that. CW: Uh-huh. GS: Okay. CW: It was the same one and I worked-- I' ; d run down from the school and work for my lunch and I was telling-- we had the honor system. Uncle Whitey would cook up a whole bunch of hamburgers, put ' ; em in a basket right next to the cash register. Then he would run the cash register and high school boys, or whoever would grab their hamburgers and pay and leave, and that' ; s on the honors system. And there wasn' ; t a whole lot of honor to it. But that was-- GS: So he gave out a lot of free hamburgers, didn' ; t he? CW: Yeah. Yeah he sure did. But that' ; s what-- GS: He was good hearted. CW: That' ; s what I did for my lunch and then I worked for him on a Saturday. All day on Saturday. Oh let me tell you this. In the kitchen-- of course that was back before we-- it was little bitty dive, so we didn' ; t have dishwasher or anything. We had just tubs with actual flame underneath it for the heating the wash water. GS: Oh wow! Uh-huh. CW: That' ; s where I washed dishes, you know. So I' ; d wash dishes in there and one day I had on a real full skirt and my skirt caught fire. GS: Oh, my word! CW: Yeah, the wind blew my skirt under that and caught fire. GS: Oh my goodness. CW: And I just whacked it out with my hands. (Laughter) CW: And kept working. Mother later was able to-- it was a big full skirt. She was able to patch it. She of course, she had made it for me. GS: (Laughter) CW: That' ; s just stuff that happened, you know. GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh. That' ; s a wonderful story. CW: Oh, I' ; ve got a million. I' ; ll run another battery out for ya! GS: (Laughing) I hope not, ' ; cause I didn' ; t bring another set. Okay, so did we get your uncle' ; s name that you worked for that had the café? What was his name? CW: Whitey Masters. GS: Whitey Masters. CW: Uh-huh. GS: Okay. Alright, and before the tape went dead, we talked about you went to school here, you graduated from Bristow. You went to grade school at Washington. CW: Yes. GS: What year did you graduate? CW: ' ; 57. GS: In ' ; 57. CW: Uh-huh. GS: And what did you do after graduation? CW: I went to a business school in Tulsa. GS: Okay. CW: Uh-huh. And I rode back and forth with my cousin, Jimmy Masters (ph). He-- he had several people riding to Tulsa with him and I paid him to drive back and forth to Tulsa. He let me out at the business school and then after school, I worked there too after I was out of classes. Mailing out envelopes and stuff like that for ' ; em so I worked for part of my-- GS: Schooling. CW: --business school. Uh-huh. GS: Well good and so what did you do when you finished that? CW: Oh, I was so lucky. I went to work at the gas company. GS: Oh, very nice. CW: Yeah. I was in the restroom in the business school. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And I just happened to be in one of those-- GS: The right place at the right time. CW: Yeah, at the right time. GS: (Laughter) CW: And I heard two of the ladies-- two of the girls that were in school too, talking about-- there was a new job opening at Oklahoma Natural Gas and they were gonna-- one of ' ; em was gonna go up there and see about it tomorrow. So soon as they got out of there, I got out of there and I went up and applied for it, and I got the job. GS: And where was that? In Tulsa? CW: Yeah, it was downtown in Tulsa. Big, beautiful building and I loved-- I worked there for a year and I just loved it. GS: Ah. CW: But this was before-- and then I got married while I worked there and then got pregnant and this was before Women' ; s Lib this is hard to believe. GS: (Laughter) CW: I worked on the first floor in the sales department as the secretary. But you could not wear maternity clothes on the first four floors. So when I was four months pregnant and started wearing maternity clothes, I had to leave. GS: Oh. How. Ridiculous. CW: I know it! I know it. And anyway, we moved and Bob got fired from his job. He worked for a stationary company. GS: Oh! CW: There I was, four months pregnant, got fired, and Bob was fired. We moved back to Bristow and Lonnie Mcgall (ph) had the M& ; P grocery store, hired Bob. And-- but I was able to draw unemployment because they had to let me go. GS: They dismissed you. Yeah! Because heaven forbid you looked pregnant! (Laughter) CW: I know! And oh I loved that job so much. GS: Ah. CW: They were really good people and every month they would take-- they called ' ; em the ONG' ; s they' ; d take a nice big air conditioned bus full of the women that worked there, out to country clubs for lunch and stuff like that once a month. GS: Oh how nice! CW: Yeah. I was really-- GS: Yeah. CW: Oh, I thought I was big time wearing my Springolator shoes-- GS: (Laughter) CW: --high heels flopping around. But that' ; s how we moved back to Bristow. GS: Okay and so what did you both do once you got back here in Bristow. CW: Well I had-- I had the baby and Bob worked at the M& ; P. GS: And that was Robby right? CW: Yeah, Robby. And then I went to work at the Garment Factory. GS: Okay, so your husband had the M& ; P? CW: He worked there. GS: He worked at the M& ; P Grocery Store. CW: Yeah. Uh-huh and then I went to work at the garment factory and got a babysitter and she was wonderful. Ruby Holloway, in fact she ended up raising all three of my kids. GS: Wow. CW: Yeah. She was like their grandma. But I-- when I was working at the Garment Factory, I got fired. Well they-- they called it laid off. If you worked three months, you could get in the union. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so you-- they let me go before I got in the union. I wasn' ; t good at it anyway. Run a needle through my finger and had to have the girl next to me back it out. GS: Oh! CW: And I wasn' ; t good at it, so. GS: Oh. CW: And I thought the world was gonna end. I thought, we' ; re gonna starve to death. GS: Ah. CW: But, it was the best thing every happened to me. And then later I got a job at the Chamber of Commerce. Worked at the Chamber of Commerce and I enjoyed that. Then I found out about the job with the USDA-- The Department of Agriculture out at the Farm Center Building and luckily I got that job. And so I worked there thirty-three years. GS: I remember that job! CW: Yeah, yeah. GS: (Laughter) CW: So, I' ; ve been really, really fortunate, you know. GS: You have been. CW: Yeah. GS: You have been. So when did-- didn' ; t Bob have the grocery store where the daycare center is now on South Chestnut? CW: Yeah. He worked at the M& ; P and then where Williams is now-- GS: Yes. CW: --they moved down there and well that was-- the M& ; P caught on fire. GS: Okay. CW: And one evening. And the next morning-- yeah he was working there, yeah. How' ; d that go? I should have him tell you all that. Anyway, he and his mother went in and bought the grocery store, Bob' ; s Grocery on South Chestnut. Aaron Willeford did own it. We bought it from him. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And Bob and his mother ran that. Yeah. GS: Okay and how long did you have that store? CW: I don' ; t know, it-- several years and Bob built on to it and made it larger. He can tell you more about that. GS: Yeah, yeah. CW: But anyway, we' ; ve been lucky our whole lives. We' ; ve been fortunate. GS: Okay, what did Bob do after he got rid of the store? CW: Then he went in-- he became a salesman for institutional type foods, yeah. GS: Oh okay. Okay. Alright, so anything else on any of that you wanna add? CW: I' ; m sure there is, I could talk your leg off. GS: (Laughter) Okay. Do you want to go back to naming the businesses or not? CW: Yeah! GS: Okay. CW: If you' ; re interested in that. GS: Yeah. I think that' ; s a good thing for us to have. CW: Okay. GS: You wanna start back down there from Third-- CW: Mm-hmm. GS: --and Main at the railroad tracks. Just-- we' ; ll start with the Ice Plant, I guess. CW: Okay, well the Lumber Yard was the first commercial building there at First-- I mean Third and Main. GS: Okay. CW: And then across from that. GS: Just north of it. CW: Just north was the Ice Plant. GS: Okay. CW: And after the railroad tracks was Hamburger King then there was a tin shop there. Patsy Humphrey' ; s husband ran that. GS: Mm-hmm. CW: And then across the little driveway ally there was the J& ; J. Then north of it on the same street was-- there was J& ; J Sundry that some of the Abraham' ; s ran. And later it was a laundromat. GS: Oh okay. CW: Yeah, so it-- GS: I don' ; t remember that. CW: And then even later than that it was import export thing that some people had. Okay, now across the street north, there was a little bitty building there and it used to be-- some people had a little photo shop where you' ; d go in-- GS: Oh is that what was in that? CW: Yeah. It was little tiny-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: --building. And then there was a business office. I think Mr. Earnhardt (ph) had it. I think he was like in the oil business or something. Then there was the feed store, Sukovaty Feed Store. And then there was Brouse' ; s Shoe Store and then there was a grocery store-- well shoot I can' ; t think of that man' ; s name, Syrian. And then Mr. Cash (ph) had a resale shop there. I think it' ; s mostly just a place for him to park. He had a big rocking chair right in the middle of the front door and sat there (Chuckling). GS: Oh how fun. CW: And he slept some and he may have sold some I don' ; t know. GS: (Laughter) CW: Then there was the café north of it called the " ; You need a lunch" ; . GS: I think that' ; s a hilarious name-- CW: Yeah. GS: " ; You need a lunch" ; . CW: And then next to it was Thorpe Grocery and next to Thorpe' ; s Grocery was Pop Arthurs Grocery Store and then our Café. GS: The Golden Eagle. CW: The Gold Eagle. GS: Gold. I always want to put that E-N on there. CW: That' ; s alright. GS: There is no E-N. It' ; s Gold Eagle. CW: The Gold Eagle. GS: Okay. CW: And then across from it north across the street was Stone' ; s Hardware and Henderson' ; s had a furniture store in there for a while. And then there was Lyons Café and then there was Cahill' ; s Drug Store and then there was the Walmur Theatre and I was trying to think what was next to it. Maybe the Playmore Pool Hall was there. And Rosemary LeForce' ; s daddy ran that-- GS: Okay. CW: And Mr. Cross very nice gentlemen. He used to drink coffee in our Gold Eagle Café. And then next to it was Doc Smith' ; s Drugstore right on the corner. GS: Okay. CW: Across the street from Doc Smith' ; s Drugstore was the play-- it was called The Club. It was a (Indecipherable) pool hall and it opened catawampus in the street. GS: Uh-huh. CW: That' ; s where my daddy and his brothers hung out-- GS: (Laughter) CW: I love telling this story. And my grandma called it the " ; Glory Hole" ; and she was always wanting it to burn down. She would pray it would burn down-- GS: (Laughter) And it did didn' ; t it? CW: It finally did but I don' ; t think she did it. (Laughter) CW: Anyway, next to it was a café called The Harvey House. GS: And that' ; s not related to the-- CW: No. Not-- GS: -- Harvey House associated with railroads-- CW: No-- GS: --right? CW: There last name just happened to be Harvey. GS: Okay. CW: So they took advantage of that. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then next to it Mrs. Masco (ph) had somewhere in there, she had a candy shop. A little bitty candy shop. GS: Well. CW: All kinds of candy. GS: Okay. CW: I don' ; t-- I' ; m talking about hard candy, you know. GS: Right. CW: Not chocolates or anything. GS: Yeah. CW: Anyway and then there was the drug store called the S& ; M Drugstore. GS: K. CW: And next to it Mr. Parrot (ph) had a-- there was two-- two automotive stores there side by side. GS: And we' ; re between Seventh and Eighth street now, aren' ; t we? CW: Yes. GS: Yes, I thought so. Okay. CW: Yes. Uh-huh. Had those two stores and then there was the Princess Theatre. GS: Yes. Uh-huh. CW: Okay, and then next to the Princess Theatre right on the corner was Kemps Drug Store. GS: Okay. CW: And across the street north was Penny' ; s. GS: Yes. CW: Oh wait, I told you wrong. Ms. Masco (ph) had that little-- that little candy shop was up there next to Penny' ; s in a little-- little breezeway type thing. GS: Oh it was next to Penny' ; s? CW: Yeah. GS: Okay. CW: Instead of in the other block. Yeah. There was Penny' ; s and then there was Ford' ; s hardware and then there was a machine shop type thing. I don' ; t know-- in there. There was some people had that rented, I guess he fixed small machines, lawn mowers and stuff. GS: I' ; m just gonna decline that. I' ; m sorry it' ; s going off I should have done that. CW: Should I keep going? GS: Yes, go on. CW: Okay, and then next to that was JT Woods insurance office. GS: Okay. CW: And I think that' ; s maybe where Bolin Ford is now. And then right next to that was our little Stacy' ; s Café. GS: You mean the Bolin Ford real estate? CW: Real estate. Yeah, real estate. I' ; m-- yeah and then we had Stacy' ; s café next to that. GS: Okay. CW: And across the ally north from that was-- I don' ; t remember what was in that first building. I know-- well Farr' ; s had that and I think their oldest son Sandy Farr and his wife and baby lived in that-- what' ; s The Clean Bean now. GS: Okay. CW: And down below that-- well let me finish. Next to The Clean Bean or next to that was another grocery store-- GS: Okay. CW: --if you can imagine. (Laughter) CW: And then-- GS: Lots of grocery stores. CW: Yeah, and then next to that was Joe Mounce' ; s-- GS: Now we' ; re between Ninth and Tenth now. CW: Yeah. GS: Aren' ; t we? CW: And Joe Mounce' ; s on the filling station and all. And it' ; s still standing there. GS: Okay. CW: Okay, back behind where Farr' ; s lived-- that little couple was Farr' ; s Taxi Stand. And they had a fleet of taxis. GS: Hard to imagine in Bristow. CW: I know. Probably three big fleet. Anyway, they stayed busy all the time. GS: Wow. CW: And L.L. Farr and his wife, they were really nice people. And I rode around, because I was in the café all the time-- for something to do, I rode around with the taxi men. GS: (Laughter) CW: I' ; d ride up-- GS: I just can' ; t imagine that. CW: Yeah! I rode in the front seat with ' ; em and of course the taxis were all smoke filled, you know. Everybody smoked back then. GS: Yeah. CW: And I thought it was just wonderful. And we would-- I' ; d ride with them to pick up their affairs. And anyway, we just-- I had the best childhood anybody could have. GS: Oh, it sounds like you did. Oh! This is very nice. Carolyn' ; s husband just brought in a certificate and a flag. It says, " ; The flag of the United States of America. This is to certify that the accompanying flag was flown over the US Capitol on September 15th, 2017 at the request of honorable Barbara Lee, member of congress. This flag was flown in honor of Bob and Carolyn' ; s eightieth birthdays and appreciation for their love of family and friends. The love, care and attention to the farmlands you are blessed to call home, and your dedication and commitment to your community and country are highly appreciated. You are truly Americans." ; And it was signed, Steven T. Ayers, architect of the capitol. That is very nice and that is a huge flag. BW: And I' ; m gonna hang it for the first time now. GS: Oh! How awesome. I' ; ll have to get a picture of it. (Laughter) CW: Our kids had that done for us. GS: Oh how wonderful! CW: Yeah. GS: Well that was a very nice tribute. I didn' ; t know you could do such a thing. Okay, so we were between Ninth and Tenth. CW: Okay. (Laughter) I don' ; t remember what the building was. It was-- at one time it was Chevrolet Garage. GS: Oh, yes. CW: Okay. GS: And I should remember, before Cunningham' ; s-- CW: Yeah. GS: --I should remember who had it, but I don' ; t at the moment. CW: I don' ; t either. And there was a business office in there somewhere. Mont McGehee had. GS: Okay. CW: And then-- oh geez, I don' ; t remember. Okay. GS: Yeah, okay. So-- CW: That' ; s as far as I go. GS: --let' ; s jump across the street now to the west side. Can you remember anything on the west side? CW: The library. GS: Yeah. CW: Yeah. GS: At Tenth and Main? CW: Tenth and Main. Yeah, that was the Public Library. GS: K, and we' ; re gonna go south. CW: Coming down Main Street south, okay. Was the library, and the school--the schoolyard. GS: Yeah. CW: And then across the street from that-- GS: And that was Edison Elementary-- CW: Edison. GS: --right? CW: Edison, yeah. GS: Okay. CW: And then across the street-- okay, across the street from that was, I think it was called Glen Cliff (ph) there was a ice cream store there. GS: Yes. CW: When we were young. GS: Uh-huh. CW: Uh-huh. And next to it south was Bush' ; s Highway Café. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then their locker plant was next door to that. GS: I' ; ve forgotten about that. CW: And then Strong' ; s Grocery Store. GS: And Shoe Store. CW: Well the shoe store was next to the grocery store. GS: I did not know that! CW: I think they were maybe brothers. Yeah, there was a grocery-- GS: No, I have heard that-- CW: Okay. GS: --now that you said that. CW: Yeah, Strong' ; s and then the grocery store, and then there was Eddie' ; s-- I think the name of it was Eddie' ; s café. It was-- GS: Eddie Nesser CW: Nesser! Yeah. Nesser' ; s Café and that' ; s where everybody would go-- I don' ; t-- he was Syrian-- GS: Yes. CW: --or Lebanese, whatever. And that' ; s where we would go to buy the little sacks of tabbouleh wheat. GS: Okay! CW: And make tabbouleh. That' ; s-- GS: Okay. CW: That was the outlet there. GS: I didn' ; t know that-- CW: Yeah. GS: --they sold that. I interviewed them for our Lebanese display and that didn' ; t come up-- CW: Oh yeah! GS: --so that' ; s interesting-- CW: You could go in there-- GS: --to know. CW: Yeah. You' ; d go in there and buy just a little sack full. Enough to make a tabbouleh. GS: Well. CW: And then after that was the Stanford' ; s Dress Shop. GS: Yes. CW: And after that was the place I said my friend had-- daddy had the pool hall there. And when they weren' ; t busy we' ; d go in there and play shuffle board and stuff. GS: (Laughter) CW: And then next to it was the-- the grocery store, Safeway. GS: Was Safeway not on the east side? CW: Hmm-mm. GS: It was on the west side first? CW: It was on the corner where the-- GS: I' ; ll be. CW: --doctor' ; s office is now, that was Safeway. GS: Okay, and now I guess later on in years it moved over to the-- CW: Uh-huh. Yeah. GS: I' ; ll be ; I did not know that. CW: Yeah, that was Safeway. And oh, what' ; s the name of those people that they both passed away now. Did so much for our town, her daddy ran it. The big place out west of town? Anyway it was-- his name was Red Wallace (ph)-- GS: Okay. CW: --that ran Safeway. GS: Okay. CW: And okay then, across the street from that I remember it didn' ; t go way, way back but it was Bonnie' ; s Beauty Supply-- GS: Yes. CW: Beauty Shop at one time. GS: Yes, I remember Bonnie' ; s. CW: Okay and then the Jewelry Store was-- GS: Harvats-- CW: Yeah, it was Searcy' ; s before it was Harvats. When I was a kid it was Searcy' ; s. GS: How do you spell that? CW: I don' ; t know. S-E-R-C-Y. I don' ; t know. GS: Okay. CW: But I' ; ll tell you who it would-- Todd-- I' ; ll be darn. GS: I hate it when I can' ; t think of names. CW: I know it. I know it. GS: And it happens a lot. CW: Todd Herman. GS: Okay! CW: It was his grandparents. GS: Okay. CW: Were the Searcy' ; s. GS: I' ; ll be. CW: And they had that jewelry store. And then there was the bakery. GS: Yes. CW: And then BF Goodrich. GS: Where the parking lot is now? CW: Yeah. BF Goodrich and it was a big busy place. GS: Yes. CW: And, let' ; s see. GS: Wasn' ; t there a dress store? CW: Oh, The Globe. Wait, well first was-- GS: Patton' ; s? CW: Wait, first was Woolworth (ph). GS: Yeah. CW: It was Woolworth. GS: Yeah, Woolworth. CW: Yeah and then Patten' ; s was next door to Woolworth. Yeah. GS: Yeah. CW: And the grocery-- and the-- I guess. Oh! Next-- well hmm. The Globe Dress Shop was there. GS: I was thinking The Globe was the block before, but I guess I' ; m wrong. CW: This is between Eighth and Seventh. GS: Seventh, okay. Okay. CW: Isn' ; t it? GS: So-- CW: Wait, am I getting mixed up? GS: Okay, Harvats is between Seventh and Eighth. CW: Mm-hmm. GS: Was The Globe next to Harvats? CW: No, I think you' ; re right. GS: It was on up there by Strong' ; s wasn' ; t it somewhere? CW: Huh-uh. GS: No? CW: Could you stop a second, let' ; s see. Anyway, somewhere along in there was Woolworth was-- GS: Yeah. CW: Great ole big store. GS: It was between Sixth and Seventh. No, Seventh and Eighth, sorry. It was between Seventh and Eighth, Woolworth was. CW: Okay, well then The Globe was next to that. GS: Okay. CW: And then there was the Man' ; s Clothier next to that. GS: I don' ; t remember that one. CW: Yeah it was Silver' ; s Men' ; s Dress-- Men' ; s Store. GS: Okay. CW: And The Globe and Silver' ; s were both Jewish people that had upper class-- you know, clothing was more expensive. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then there was the law offices. Arthurs, McMillian-- GS: Okay. CW: Blackstock-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: Okay, then go across the street on the other side was the American National Bank. GS: At Seventh and Main? CW: Seventh and Main. GS: On the west side? CW: Yeah and next to it was the Rexall Drugstore. GS: Mm-hmm. CW: Next to it was Anthony' ; s. C.R. Anthony' ; s. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then there was the barber shop in there. GS: Yes. CW: Hmm. GS: OGE was on the corner wasn' ; t it? CW: They were on the corner but there was something in between there. GS: M-kay (Inaudible) CW: At one time there was a dress shop in there called Mode O' ; Day. GS: Yes. Was it Sears maybe? CW: No. GS: No. CW: No, Sears was across the street in one of those-- about where Lyons Café was or something. GS: Oh. CW: You know. Anyway, then across the street south was the Community State Bank. GS: At Sixth and Main? CW: Sixth and Main and going south was American Café and there were Shamas' ; s on that farther down. GS: Yes. CW: And there was a little café called Mrs. Knot' ; s Café. And there was a little bar there. GS: I remember that. CW: Uh-huh and I may have left something out, but on the corner was Tex Slyman' ; s mother and daddy' ; s grocery store. GS: Oh! CW: On the corner-- on the corner of Fifth and Main. GS: On the north side of Fifth and Main? On the north side of-- CW: Uh-huh. GS: Uh-huh. I' ; ll be. CW: Yeah. GS: Where the parking lot is now. CW: Yes, that was-- GS: Okay. CW: --Slyman' ; s Café. GS: Okay! CW: I mean not café-- GS: Grocery-- CW: --Grocery Store. GS: Okay. CW: Then across the street was-- on the corner of Fifth and Main was the filling station. Conoco Filling Station. And then next to it, he had a big place where he had rubber tires and stuff. Mr. Price did and then next to it was the bus station, the Greyhound Bus Station. And next to it was a big filling station. Maybe their name was-- I don' ; t know. Anyway, there was a big filling station there on the corner. GS: Uh-huh. CW: Of-- GS: Fourth and Main. CW: --Fourth and Main. Mm-hmm. GS: Well gosh, that' ; s a wonderful memory. CW: Yeah. GS: I-- you had to grow up on Main Street-- CW: Oh yeah! GS: --to be able to remember all of that. CW: ' ; Cause I walked it every day. GS: Yeah. CW: You know. GS: I couldn' ; t tell you what the businesses were-- CW: Yeah. GS: --up and down Main. When I was a kid-- I mean when you' ; re talking, I can recall some of it. CW: And I remember now another place too, I left out both of them. On the east side along there by the Walmur Theatre was-- GS: Uh-huh. CW: Shoe shop. GS: Oh! CW: And it was Wenzloff. She used to work at the high school as a librarian. Wenzloff Shoe Shop. It' ; s called Angel' ; s. GS: Okay. CW: And I think that was because that was his wife' ; s maiden name, and maybe her daddy had it before him. GS: Before him. CW: And across the street from it, I left that out. By Anthony' ; s was Red Bird Shoe Shop. GS: When you said the Angel-- CW: Yeah. GS: -- Shoe Shop, I thought of Red Bird. CW: And then there was the Barber Shop in there too. GS: Okay. CW: Down from the Red Bird Shoe Shop, so there was just businesses everywhere. GS: Now in old phonebooks--and of course this was well before your time. But in old phone books it showed that we had a lot, like eleven hotels but they were small, you know. CW: Mm-hmm. GS: Were there many motels, hotels when you were around-- CW: No. GS: --growing up? CW: There was one on-- Thurman' ; s had one on Fourth, off Main Street. You know, a couple blocks. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And then they had made the big one and up on north Main. GS: Yeah. CW: But, Bristow was just wonderful-- Bristow. One thing I left out about out Gold Eagle Café. It was also a bus stop for the American Airlines. American Trailways, I think it was called. And The Greyhound was the busiest one. But some people took the trailways and mother sold tickets there in the Gold Eagle for it. And if she would have someone that had bought a ticket, she would put a red bandana hanging out on the awning and that would signal for the bus to stop and pick up a passenger. GS: Oh how-- CW: I know it! GS: --isn' ; t that neat! CW: Yeah. GS: Just a red bandana. CW: Yeah, that was a hanging on our-- that left-- and of course he' ; d park right in the middle of Main Street to, you know. GS: To pick ' ; em up (Laughter). CW: Uh-huh! Yeah. So that was interesting. I don' ; t think anybody' ; s had a better lifetime than I have. GS: I don' ; t think they have either-- CW: I really don' ; t. GS: --Carolyn. I don' ; t think they have-- CW: And I' ; m just starting. I could go another hour or two. GS: Oh I know you could. CW: (Laughter) GS: Now you haven' ; t told me much about you and Bob. Do you have any favorite memories you' ; d like to share that you and Bob have done here-- CW: Oh yeah! Well I' ; ll tell you-- GS: --in Bristow or whatever? CW: This is when I was a junior. I couldn' ; t date until I was sixteen. My daddy was really strict and anyway one time, Donna Cash (ph) the one that had the-- her mother was the school teacher at Slick. And we would go riding on Sundays. I' ; d go with them sometimes, and one time we went out past Newby and she said, " ; Now Carolyn, there' ; s where you-- that' ; s who you oughta date." ; and I said, " ; Who?" ; and she said, " ; Little Bobby Webb." ; GS: (Laughter) CW: And I said, " ; I don' ; t-- well I don' ; t really know ' ; em." ; and she said, " ; That would be somebody good for you to date." ; Because her daughter already had a boyfriend that was in the band at Stroud. GS: Uh-huh. CW: And so I started looking him up at school and I thought, oh yeah, he is nice. So I asked my girlfriend, to ask her boyfriend, to ask Bob to ask me out for the FFA, 4-H-- I mean FFA, FHA party. And so he did! GS: Ah! CW: And that' ; s how we got together. Yeah. GS: Ah and so you were dating in high school? CW: We dated three years before we got married. GS: Okay. CW: Yeah. GS: Okay. So-- CW: Oh, I gotta show you something funny here. This is a scrapbook I' ; ve got. This is a Valentine I got for him years-- when we were first married. Anyway, the Valen-- the card itself isn' ; t that exciting. GS: Uh-huh. CW: But he never paid any attention, he wasn' ; t real sentimental. I gave him the same card for over twenty-five years. (Laughter) GS: And he never noticed? CW: No, he didn' ; t know. And one day he looked on the back and he said, " ; I didn' ; t know you could buy a card like that for fifteen cents?" ; and I started laughing-- GS: Oh my word! CW: --and so he found about me. GS: Oh, that' ; s hilarious-- CW: Yeah. GS: --Carolyn! CW: Yeah. GS: That is too funny! CW: So we had a good time. Yeah. GS: (Chuckling) Yes, you have. CW: And we' ; ve been married sixty-two years. GS: That was my next question (Chuckling). CW: Yeah, yeah! GS: That' ; s wonderful. Three kids and sixty-two years later. How many grandkids? CW: We only have four. GS: Four grandkids. CW: One daughter and three grandsons and they' ; re just wonderful. GS: Ah. Well that is wonderful CW: Yeah. GS: Do they live around here? CW: No. One of them-- well two do. Robby' ; s two oldest boys, Tyler (ph) and Brian (ph). Tyler' ; s (ph) an engineer and lives in Tulsa and Brian (ph) lives here with his mother out east of town. GS: And I taught both of those. (Laughter) CW: And then our other two, we have a grandson in Phoenix that' ; s going to the University of Arizona, Aedan (ph). His mother is-- she was born in the United States, but she' ; s Korean. GS: Okay. CW: So he says he' ; s half Okie and half Korean. And then Sue has one daughter and she' ; s graduated from out in California and she' ; s hoping to be a lawyer. She' ; s working in a-- GS: Oh. CW: --law office and wants to eventually take her test to become a lawyer. GS: Oh, that' ; s very admirable, good for her. CW: Yeah, so we' ; re fortunate. GS: Yes, you are. Anything else you can think that you want to tell me that maybe wasn' ; t related to any question I ask? CW: Oh gosh, I don' ; t know. GS: Any famous people come to Bristow that you met or-- CW: Oh I was gonna tell you, I always kept a autograph book and I still have one of ' ; em. GS: Oh how fun. CW: And so I have-- in fact it' ; s in the house. I' ; ve got a autograph book that' ; s got a bunch of the railroad men have signed it. GS: Oh! CW: Yeah! GS: That' ; s wonderful. CW: I' ; ve--they' ; ve--and of course I have people sign it. So I' ; ve got a bunch of the railroad men signing it. And then when I was in junior high I had Tom-- oh the folk singer, Tom Paxton. GS: Yes. CW: For some reason, I got his signature ' ; cause he was in the high school band and I' ; d just start-- was in the junior high. I got his signature. GS: Well that' ; s cool! CW: So when he came back to Bristow a few years ago, I got his signature on the same page again. Yeah! GS: Oh, how marvelous! CW: Yeah, so-- GS: Yeah, that' ; s very special. That' ; s very special. Well Carolyn, I' ; ve enjoyed this tremendously. CW: Oh I have too, and I wish you' ; d come back and we' ; d start all over again. (Laughter) GS: Well I tell you what, if you want to sit in with Bob' ; s, when we do Bob' ; s-- CW: Okay, ' ; cause I wouldn' ; t let him sit in on mine. (Laughter) GS: Yeah, I noticed that! (Laughter) GS: Maybe you could add a little bit into his. CW: He' ; ll probably run me off too. (Laughter) GS: Well thank you so much, Carolyn. CW: Oh I love you. I' ; d love to give you a big ole hug but we can' ; t-- GS: I know, but we better not. End of interview The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.’s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. audio The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml OHP-2020-02_Carolyn_Webb.xml
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Carolyn Webb
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Carolyn Webb shares about her life and involvement during her years of growing up in Bristow. She discusses all of the Main Street businesses and their locations, along with her experience growing up in the Main Street restaurant that her family owned. Carolyn shares about her love for her town and how fortunate she feels to have grown up and continue to reside in Bristow.
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OHP-2020-02
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2020-09-14
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audio
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Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Bob Webb
Carolyn Webb
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-07_Webb_Bob.xml
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5.4 October 20th, 2020 OHP-2020-07 Bob Webb OHP-2020-07 0:00-58:5 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bob Webb Carolyn Webb Debbie Blansett MP3 OHP-2020-07 Webb, Bob.mp3 1:|59(5)|89(8)|109(5)|123(10)|160(6)|174(9)|204(13)|231(3)|248(2)|274(12)|285(4)|303(15)|339(2)|352(3)|379(6)|395(3)|437(17)|467(3)|486(4)|526(14)|542(14)|561(13)|608(12)|635(1)|660(10)|692(2)|708(2)|741(13)|763(15)|804(2)|835(3)|852(14)|888(13)|922(2)|947(9)|976(15)|990(15)|1007(14)|1032(5)|1058(12)|1099(4)|1123(10)|1162(6)|1183(5)|1198(4)|1240(2)|1289(12)|1330(14)|1361(11)|1395(11)|1416(7)|1448(7)|1483(7)|1532(8)|1563(11)|1594(11)|1624(11)|1650(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-07 Webb, Bob.mp3 Other audio 254 Family History and Early Childhood Annetta Webb ; Big Deep Fork ; Callie Hill ; Charley S. Webb Sr ; Charley Shelby Webb Junior ; County Commissioner ; Creek County ; Debbie Charles Webb ; District Two ; Farm ; Farmer ; Jimmy Weaver ; Mary Charles Hill Webb ; Newby ; Robert Earl Webb ; Tractor Childhood ; Early Childhood ; Family History ; Farming https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363927/mary-c.-webb Mary C. Webb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363930/charley-shelby-webb Charley Shelby Webb Jr. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363936/annetta-webb Annetta James Webb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363935/charley-shelby-webb Charley Shelby Webb Sr. 391 Bob's Grocery and Carolyn Masters BW: But then my mother— when the Garment Factory opened, well she went to work there and she worked there— oh gosh until I bought the store, and then she went to work with me in my grocery store after I was— well on my twenty-first birthday. GS: What was the name of that store, Bob? BW: Bob’s Grocery. We couldn’t call it Webb’s grocery because Johnny (ph) and Frank Webb had a month ahead of us had bought the store across the street— GS: (Laughter) BW: —and they called it Webb’s, so we couldn’t call it Webb’s. (Chuckling) GS: No. BW: So we went to Bob’s Grocery and that’s what it was until I sold it. GS: Okay. Tell me about Carolyn, your wife. When did you all get married? BW: Oh lord. GS: Well first, what’s Carolyn’s whole name? BW: Carolyn G. Masters Webb. Bob's Grocery ; Carolyn G. Masters Webb ; Garment Factory Bob's Grocery ; Buisness ; Carolyn Webb ; Children ; Garment Factory ; Marriage 762 Childhood and The Farm GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you as a child. BW: Well, let’s see. I was born on the ole Burt Miller Farm (ph) they called it. Every farm had a name, back in those days. And it was about a mile off of Highway 48, which was a gravel road then. And about three miles southwest of Newby. Anyway, I was born in the farmhouse. My mother started having the pains, and I had an aunt and uncle there Jesse and Lucille Propst . Lucille was my dad’s sister. Anyway, dad jumped in the ole car to go get Doc King or Doc Coppedge— one of ‘em. And anyway, I came before the doctor got there and my Uncle Jesse, was— he’s the one that delivered me. GS: Ah. BW: And he was a farmer and a barber. (Laughter) BW: So, anyway— GS: Was he a dentist also, I think back then they were dentist too— BW: Well, he may have. But my Uncle Jesse delivered me and when the doctor got there he said, “Jesse, you done a great job.” said, “That’s gonna be a good looking Naval.” (Laughter) BW: Anyway, Uncle Jesse and I— I don’t know whether it was that reason, or not because he delivered me. He was one of the closest uncles I had. He treated me better than he did his own kids. (chuckling) GS: Now, was it your Uncle Jesse or was it a different uncle that was in law enforcement with the— and caught the outlaws and you didn’t believe him— BW: No, that was— Bristow News Record Newspaper ; Burt Miller Farm ; Corn ; Cotton ; Doc Coppedge ; Doc King ; Georgia ; Isaac Webb ; New Mexico ; Oklahoma ; Peanuts ; Texas ; US Marshal ; Wild Horse Prairie Childhood ; Family ; Farm ; Memories https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22432611/ike-king-webb Ike King Webb 981 School Days BW: So— but anyway, I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. Got to start early when I was like barely five. I visited school quite a bit, ‘cause we lived two and a half miles from the school and there was no kids to play with. And I would follow my older brother to school and J.L. Darnell was the County Superintendent at the time. My dad was raised up with him and Robert Darnell and his other brother. They run around together when they were kids. Anyway, J.L. was there to visit one day and he asked Geneva Scott which was my first— was the teacher, and he said, “What’s Bob doing here he’s not old enough. She said, “Well he comes to visit so we have kids to play with.” J.L. said, “Put him in school.” So I got to start school early and I graduated out of high school. I was about a year to two years younger than my classmates my senior year. GS: And did that bother you in anyway? BW: It really did ‘cause I was small anyway and it didn’t bother me so much at Newby school, ‘cause it wasn’t all that many kids. But coming from Newby School there was just two of us graduating out of the eighth grade that year, me and Dwayne Tallent (ph). And came to Bristow school where there was twelve, fifteen hundred kids at the time probably and I was— everybody thought I was probably in the seventh grade instead of the ninth grade, ‘cause I was so small. But anyway, I enjoyed it after a year or two. Senior year I really enjoyed it— GS: Once you got your growth spurt? (Chuckling) County Superintendent ; Dwayne Tallent ; Elizabeth Ferguson ; Geneva Scott ; J.L Darnell Bristow High School ; School https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77214387/jesse-lawrence-darnell J.L Darnell https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184764/robert-alan-darnell Robert Alan Darnell https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26863839/geneva-scott Geneva Scott 1238 Work Before Bob's Grocery GS: Let me interrupt you— BW: Sure. GS: —just a minute. Where was the M& ; P located then? BW: It was on Main Street just north of the Express Personnel. GS: Okay. BW: Yeah I think it was one door— GS: On the west side of the street? BW: On the west side of the street. GS: I’ll be. BW: And Grady Arthurs had one right next door— a grocery store. GS: Oh. BW: We didn’t have any big grocery stores then and Safeway was up at, what Ninth and Main then. Where the doctor’s clinics at now. GS: Oh. Aaron Willeford ; Business School ; Cadillac dealer ; Colorado ; Dick Cahill ; Express Personnel ; Grady Arthurs ; Lonnie Mcgall ; M& ; P Grocery ; Oklahoma Natural ; Oklahoma Natural Building ; Safeway ; Tulsa Stationery Business ; Work https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25137599/henry-grady-arthurs Henry Grady Arthurs https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92693227/aaron-isaac-willeford Aaron Isaac Willeford 1918 Bob's Grocery and Hale-Halsell GS: What year was that that you bought that store? BW: Well let’s see, that had to be ’62. GS: ’62. BW: ’62. And I just turned— GS: What was— BW: —twenty-one on my— on April 1st and got my store on April 2nd. GS: Was there a store there before you bought it? BW: Yeah, Aaron Willeford owned the store. GS: Aaron Willeford owned the store. BW: Yeah, used to be Siner Grocery. Siner’s built the building and they sold it to Aaron and moved out in western Oklahoma some place. But Aaron had it for a few years and like I said, when he got elected County Commissioner, he worked for Jim Weaver with my dad too. GS: Okay, yeah. BW: And anyway, it was kind of a natural thing and I bought it. I was there for fifteen years. I more than doubled the size of the building. I had three houses on the lots behind it. It was a complete block along the lots— or the block was. And I sold the houses off and built on the store and I made it like almost three times bigger than what it was. Put all new equipment in it and the M& ; P had sold out after I left to Hale-Halsell. It was a warehouse in Tulsa, it’s why they called it Super-H— GS: Oh. Affiliated Foods ; Audrey Gillum ; David Leffner ; I-40 ; Levan Kelly ; Okemah ; Safeway ; Siner Grocery ; Super-H Store ; Tracy Kelly Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Jobs ; Loans https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22326275/audrey-beatrice-gillum Audrey Beatrice Gillum https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141534677/forest-levan-kelly Forest Levan Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96953333/oliver-tracy-kelly Oliver Tracy Kelly 2575 Grocery Store Management and Real Estate BW: And built a new store. Well, Bill Farha owned the building in Bristow and he also owned the one in Okemah, GS: Okay. BW: He built ‘em for Safeway. GS: I did not know that. BW: And of course Bill traded with me at the store. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And we got together and he and I were gonna put that store in in Okemah. Beautiful building, big parking lot, and right in the middle of town. And we’d have probably put Safeway out of business earlier down there if we’d— GS: Rival. Arkansas ; Bill Farha ; Bixby ; Doodle's Steakhouse ; Escotts ; Kansas ; Larry Reasor ; Real Estate ; Reasor's ; Sysco Food Service ; The Industrial Board Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Real Estate ; Reasors ; Retirement ; Work https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184902/william-ellis-farha William Ellis Farha https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55143314/larry-gene-reasor Larry Gene Reasor 3233 Bristow Then and Now GS: Any significant changes you’ve seen in Bristow since you are on the Industrial Board or even like as a child that you know, you think were big improvements to Bristow? BW: Well you know— GS: Or had a big impact to Bristow? BW: Yeah. I kinda beat around the bush about this, but you know a kid from the farm ; we came to town on Saturday. Main Street was just full ; you couldn’t find a parking place. And usually the farmers when they came in, they came in for the day. GS: Yes. BW: And you know, we’d go to the Walmur Theatre and get in there for a dime or so. Eat a hamburger at Llyon’s Café, and then dad would do his visiting up and down Main Street making (indecipherable) sale, or whatever. And mom would usually go to the Princess Theatre, that was where the adults went you know. GS: Okay, that’s why I never went to the Princess I guess much. BW: It was— I didn’t go very often until I married her— married Carolyn. (Chuckling) GS: Uh-huh. BW: But anyway, and the Main Street was just so busy. But you know, I’m on a couple other boards too and when we’re having general meetings or— we’ve had a couple of meetings I’d hold ‘em here in Bristow. And I had the Conservation District and we— and a whole area Conservation Districts, which takes most of northeastern Oklahoma. And it was my turn to hold it here, I had it down at the Church of God where we go to church and we was gonna really impress ‘em. So we ordered T-Bone steaks, we had like about a hundred people there. Anna Louise Foster ; Area of Conservation Districts ; Arthur Foster ; Charlie Webb Senior ; Church of God ; Community State Bank ; Harrison Webb ; Llyon's Cafe ; Main Street ; Princess Theatre ; School Board ; Tall Foster ; Walmur Theatre Bristow ; Buisnesses ; Changes ; Main Street ; Town 3532 The Webb Children GS: Yeah. Okay, do your children still live around here? BW: No. Robert JR, he lives in Phoenix. He’s been there for— oh gosh, twenty-five years. GS: How old would Rob be now? BW: He’ll be about sixty-one now. GS: Okay. BW: He graduated— all three kids graduated OSU. He went to work for General Foods and they moved him to southern California for about four or five years and then to Phoenix. And they was getting ready to move him again and he said, “I’m not moving again.” So— GS: (Laughter) BW: —he resigned and went to Arizona State and got his masters and as soon as he walked out he went straight to Intel and now he does all the contracts for Intel. GS: Good for him. BW: This is worldwide (Chuckling). GS: Good for him. Arizona State ; Federal Reserve Bank ; General Foods ; Oklahoma State University ; Robert Webb Jr Children ; Graduation ; Grandchildren ; Jobs ; School : In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area. Interviewer: Bob Webb (BW) Interviewee: Georgia Smith (GS) Other Persons: None Date of Interview: October 20th, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is October 20th, 2020 and I' ; m sitting here with Bob Webb at his home, east of Bristow-- who is going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. His wife, Carolyn may be in and out of the room. Now, give me your full name Bob. BW: Robert Earl Webb. GS: And where were you born, Bob? BW: I was born south of Bristow in the Newby area. I was born about two and a half miles south of Newby, in the country. GS: Okay, and your date of birth? BW: April 2nd, 1939. GS: Almost an April Fools baby. BW: That' ; s right. (Laughter) GS: What were your parents' ; names? Your mother-- We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. BW: Mary Charles Hill Webb and my dad, Charles or Charley Shelby Webb Junior. GS: Do you know when they were married? BW: Probably about 1933 or 4. GS: Okay, do you know where they were married? BW: In Bristow. GS: Okay, do you-- were they born in Bristow or did they come here? BW: No, they were both born in the Bristow area. GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have? BW: In my mother' ; s family there was like eighteen I believe. There were two wives, the first wife past away and then Grandpa Hill married my grandmother Callie Hill (ph) and then they had like five children. So, anyway there was like seventeen or eighteen kids in her side of the family. On my dad' ; s side, Charley S. Webb Sr. and my grandmother Annetta Webb sorry I-- James Webb and they were married here in Bristow also. GS: Okay, what about siblings? Do you have brothers or sisters? BW: Got one brother that' ; s Gene (ph) he' ; s about five years older. Then I got a sister, Debbie-- Debbie Charles Webb (ph) and she' ; s about fifteen years younger than me. GS: Wow, wow. BW: Yeah. GS: Okay. What did your father do for a living? BW: He was a farmer. That' ; s-- he always farmed out around the Newby area. That' ; s where he went to grade school-- where me and my brother went to grade school there too. But he was a farmer and he was a good farmer. He farmed everything from just the edge of Newby down to the banks of Big Deep Fork. GS: Wow, he had a big farm. BW: He-- well a lot of leased land, rented land. And cotton, corn, and peanuts was our main crops. GS: What did your mother do? BW: My mother was a housewife and she worked on the farm just like me and my brother and dad. She went to the fields with us and in fact my dad, back in about-- well it was when Jimmy Weaver become County Commissioner. He helped Jim get elected, and he went to work for Jim Weaver as a timekeeper for the Creek County District Two. And my mother and my older brother, we done the farming from then and of course dad would-- when he came in at the evenings or night, he would take over and start plowing the corn or whatever. GS: Wow. BW: With the lights on the tractor. GS: Wow. BW: But then my mother-- when the Garment Factory opened, well she went to work there and she worked there-- oh gosh until I bought the store, and then she went to work with me in my grocery store after I was-- well on my twenty-first birthday. GS: What was the name of that store, Bob? BW: Bob' ; s Grocery. We couldn' ; t call it Webb' ; s grocery because Johnny (ph) and Frank Webb had a month ahead of us had bought the store across the street-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --and they called it Webb' ; s, so we couldn' ; t call it Webb' ; s. (Chuckling) GS: No. BW: So we went to Bob' ; s Grocery and that' ; s what it was until I sold it. GS: Okay. Tell me about Carolyn, your wife. When did you all get married? BW: Oh lord. GS: Well first, what' ; s Carolyn' ; s whole name? BW: Carolyn G. Masters Webb. GS: Okay. And what was the date of your marriage? BW: It was on Valentine' ; s Day in 1958 or 9. GS: (Chuckling) Okay, I have to insert this right here, because I know-- I know it' ; s such-- it' ; s your favorite thing to discuss, but it was wonderful when Carolyn told me. You and your wife were married on Valentine' ; s Day. BW: Yes. GS: And she gave you a card one year, and tell me about that card. BW: Well, she always had this anniversary card and oh it' ; s a nice, pretty, big card. Anyway, a few years ago I opened it up and looked at it and I just happened to turn it over and I saw the price on it. It was a Hallmark card ; it was like thirty-five cents. And I said, " ; Where in the world did you get a Hallmark card this cheap?" ; You know, they' ; re like two-dollars or so. GS: Yeah. BW: And she said, " ; I' ; ve been giving you the same card for fifty-some years!" ; I think it was. (Laughter) GS: That story' ; s just too good not to pass-- BW: Yeah. GS: --shows clearly the difference between men and women, doesn' ; t it? BW: Yeah. We do notice price ; it just takes us years to get to it. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s right. How many children did you and Carolyn have? BW: Got three. Got Robert Junior, and then Sue Ann, and Stacy. GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you as a child. BW: Well, let' ; s see. I was born on the ole Burt Miller Farm (ph) they called it. Every farm had a name, back in those days. And it was about a mile off of Highway 48, which was a gravel road then. And about three miles southwest of Newby. Anyway, I was born in the farmhouse. My mother started having the pains, and I had an aunt and uncle there Jesse and Lucille Propst. Lucille was my dad' ; s sister. Anyway, dad jumped in the ole car to go get Doc King or Doc Coppedge-- one of ' ; em. And anyway, I came before the doctor got there and my Uncle Jesse, was-- he' ; s the one that delivered me. GS: Ah. BW: And he was a farmer and a barber. (Laughter) BW: So, anyway-- GS: Was he a dentist also, I think back then they were dentist too-- BW: Well, he may have. But my Uncle Jesse delivered me and when the doctor got there he said, " ; Jesse, you done a great job." ; said, " ; That' ; s gonna be a good looking Naval." ; (Laughter) BW: Anyway, Uncle Jesse and I-- I don' ; t know whether it was that reason, or not because he delivered me. He was one of the closest uncles I had. He treated me better than he did his own kids. (chuckling) GS: Now, was it your Uncle Jesse or was it a different uncle that was in law enforcement with the-- and caught the outlaws and you didn' ; t believe him-- BW: No, that was-- GS: Can you tell me that story? BW: Yeah, that was my great uncle, Isaac Webb. He was my grandad' ; s older brother ; he was like two years older than my grandad. But working in the fields, he lived with us off and on for several years out on the farm and of course helped us on the farm. And he was always telling me stories and all this and he was--he was-- I was a little guy, and he was a small guy too. But, he was telling me these stories about when he was a US Marshal. And about chasing horse thieves and stuff like that. And he told me this story about getting in a gun fight out north of Bristow out around Wild Horse Prairie. And he got shot, and he showed me where he got shot. It was on his arms and-- GS: Wow. BW: --one on his hand. And of course, you know I was seven or eight years old and I thought he was just kinda windy. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, later on in-- when I got into Bristow schools, in the ninth grade I went to work for Isle Cook (ph) down at the Bristow News Record Newspaper and in my spare time I' ; d go up to the big books that held all of their old papers. And I' ; d go on through ' ; em, they started like 1900 or something like that or 1890 something. But anyway, I was going through ' ; em and anytime I had spare time I' ; d move up to another book and I opened it up-- one of ' ; em and there on the front page-- on the bottom of the front page-- Deputy US Marshal Isaac Webb captures horse thieves at Wild Horse Prairie. (Laughter) GS: The story you had heard as a child. BW: The old man was telling me the truth. GS: (Laughter) BW: Of course he didn' ; t-- that' ; s the only story I can remember ' ; cause I know it was true, it was in the paper. (Chuckling) GS: That' ; s right, that' ; s right. Well tell me some more about your-- your upbringing. BW: Well, of course on the farm and everything we had cows and hogs and all that. But after World War II, you know they put allotments on peanuts and cotton. And that was a big thing for us. In fact, we thrashed all the peanuts for everybody five miles south of Bristow all the way to the county line. We thrashed all the farmer' ; s peanuts along with ours. But anyway, after the war there wasn' ; t any demand for cotton, ' ; cause you know the soldiers were coming home. They didn' ; t make uniforms like they did. So to protect the big farmers-- you know, southern, western Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, New Mexico where the big cotton farmers at, they protected them. But we was smarter than every little ole ten, twenty, maybe a thirty-acre field, but they' ; d cut our allotments down maybe a twenty-acre field would get a three or four acre allotment. But it wasn' ; t worthwhile to plant ' ; em, and the price of course dropped down. Just put us out of the business, so-- and peanuts and cotton. GS: So in your opinion-- BW: Same way. GS: --was that the demise of peanuts in the Bristow area? BW: Oh yeah. Yeah, the allotments. And you know, it' ; s understandable but we just went into planting all these fields more in corn. And we got more into cows and dad got up to about four hundred and some acres, and we' ; d run a hundred to a hundred-fifty head of cows. And we raised our own corn for feed and we' ; d mix it with other things. In fact, we used to use-- mix it with peanut hay and we made our own cow feed. We didn' ; t have-- there was no such thing as cattle cubes back then. GS: Oh really? BW: So we' ; d made our own feed and started fighting the Bermuda grass or sodding Bermuda grass. We had fought it when we was raising crops and we sodded everything down in Bermuda grass-- in Bermuda grass for a pasture for our cows. So, and that' ; s the way it lays right now, it' ; s all in Bermuda Grass. (Chuckling) GS: All in Bermuda, well very good. BW: But anyway, that' ; s what was going on and of course I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. GS: Let me ask you this question real quick. BW: Mm-hmm. GS: Was any of that-- is any of that land still in the family? BW: No-- GS: Okay. BW: No, it' ; s not. I had to-- my dad lived until he was ninety-three and he spent quite a few years in the nursing home. GS: Ah. BW: I sold it off a piece at a time as needed. GS: Yeah. BW: And sold the last of it about twelve years ago. GS: Okay. BW: So-- but anyway, I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. Got to start early when I was like barely five. I visited school quite a bit, ' ; cause we lived two and a half miles from the school and there was no kids to play with. And I would follow my older brother to school and J.L. Darnell was the County Superintendent at the time. My dad was raised up with him and Robert Darnell and his other brother. They run around together when they were kids. Anyway, J.L. was there to visit one day and he asked Geneva Scott which was my first-- was the teacher, and he said, " ; What' ; s Bob doing here he' ; s not old enough. She said, " ; Well he comes to visit so we have kids to play with." ; J.L. said, " ; Put him in school." ; So I got to start school early and I graduated out of high school. I was about a year to two years younger than my classmates my senior year. GS: And did that bother you in anyway? BW: It really did ' ; cause I was small anyway and it didn' ; t bother me so much at Newby school, ' ; cause it wasn' ; t all that many kids. But coming from Newby School there was just two of us graduating out of the eighth grade that year, me and Dwayne Tallent (ph). And came to Bristow school where there was twelve, fifteen hundred kids at the time probably and I was-- everybody thought I was probably in the seventh grade instead of the ninth grade, ' ; cause I was so small. But anyway, I enjoyed it after a year or two. Senior year I really enjoyed it-- GS: Once you got your growth spurt? (Chuckling) BW: My senior year I came back to school after the summer and I hadn' ; t seen most of these kids since they let out of school in May. And this one girl that came up to me first hour of class and stuck out her hand and said, " ; My name is Elizabeth Ferguson (ph), welcome to Bristow High School." ; And I said, " ; Elizabeth, I' ; ve been in school with you for this makes the third year." ; (Laughter) BW: But I had changed so much in that period of time I had actually got taller. (Chuckling) BW: But it embarrassed her and every time I' ; d see her from then on we' ; d have class reunions, I' ; d remind her of that. (Laughter) GS: " ; Hi, I' ; m Bob Webb." ; (Chuckling). BW: Yeah, yeah. But you know, I graduated out of high school. GS: What year was that? BW: ' ; 56. GS: ' ; 56. BW: Carolyn graduated in ' ; 57. I got it quite well, I knew of her for years. She was a cute little blonde and anyway, I liked her but didn' ; t think I' ; d ever get a go with her (chuckling). But Mrs. Cash (ph), she used to be a school teacher. In fact, she taught school at Newby before I even started school out there, but she knew the family. And her daughter and Carolyn was good friends. And they were out driving around one Sunday and they just happened to be driving out at Newby and she mentioned Carolyn-- " ; You ought to look up Bobby Webb" ; , that' ; s what she called me. And I said-- Carolyn was real small and of course what she remembered, I was small too. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And Carolyn looked me up, and that' ; s how we got together. GS: Ah, that' ; s a nice story. (Laughter) GS: Alright, so after you graduated, what-- what did you do? BW: Well, of course I always had a job when I was in high school. I worked at the M& ; P after school and after I graduated, I went-- GS: Let me interrupt you-- BW: Sure. GS: --just a minute. Where was the M& ; P located then? BW: It was on Main Street just north of the Express Personnel. GS: Okay. BW: Yeah I think it was one door-- GS: On the west side of the street? BW: On the west side of the street. GS: I' ; ll be. BW: And Grady Arthurs had one right next door-- a grocery store. GS: Oh. BW: We didn' ; t have any big grocery stores then and Safeway was up at, what Ninth and Main then. Where the doctor' ; s clinics at now. GS: Oh. BW: On the west side of the street. And I even worked at the Safeway. They were remodeling one weekend, they had to move everything out of the store and they took it next door to an empty building they had leased. And I helped them empty that store. GS: Well. BW: I worked like two days. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, I went to work for Lonnie Mcgall (ph) he was the manager there and-- GS: At M& ; P? BW: At the M& ; P. But Carolyn and I got married, let' ; s see the second year after I graduated. She had went to business school in Tulsa and graduated and she got a job at Oklahoma Natural downtown in an office. And I had went to Colorado and spent the summer up there working for a Cadillac dealer. GS: Was that downtown Tulsa where ONG was? BW: It was downtown, yeah. Yeah, it was Oklahoma Natural Building, they called it. It' ; s-- GS: Okay. BW: --an office building now of some other type. But anyway, she worked there and when we did get married in-- God ' ; 58, ' ; 59 (Laughter). Anyway, I had a job just about a block away from there. I worked for an office supply house and we lived in Tulsa one year and I got-- she had to quit her job because Oklahoma Natural wouldn' ; t let a pregnant lady work-- GS: Oh my word. BW: --after three months in the bottom three floors. They didn' ; t let pregnant women be seen by customers. Anyway she was on the first floor. (Laughter) BW: But she got laid off, or had to quit. And a week later I got laid off. GS: Oh my word. BW: And that' ; s how we wound up in Bristow. And I got laid off that Friday and I had to go home to our apartment and tell her that neither one of us has got a job. Anyway, I called Lonnie Mcgall (ph)-- still the manager at the M& ; P and they had moved where Williams is at now, except it was a different building. GS: On East Seventh. BW: Yeah. Anyway I called him up and asked if he had any openings. He asked me, " ; Can you be here Monday morning?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: I said, " ; I can be there." ; (Laughter) BW: So I-- the place I worked gave me a two weeks' ; notice-- GS: Where was that, Bob? I don' ; t think we mentioned that. BW: It was Tulsa Stationery-- was the name of it. GS: Okay. BW: But they sold office furniture and all that. And I called the store manager and I told ' ; em-- I said, " ; I don' ; t need your two weeks' ; notice, I' ; ve got a job." ; (Laughter) BW: So we loaded up and moved back to Bristow that weekend. Of course all we had was the clothes and a television' ; s all we had. GS: Yeah. BW: (Chuckling) Everything was furnished with the apartment. And we called and got a place, Dick Cahill, he was an ole druggist here in town and he owned a lot of rental houses and we moved in a duplex on Sunday afternoon. An old furnished duplex, and it was not the best of situations. GS: (Laughter) BW: But it was one block from the M& ; P. GS: Well that was helpful. BW: So got in there and I worked at the M& ; P for five years. I was assistant manager when I resigned and bought my own grocery store. Aaron Willeford had a store on South Chestnut and anyway, he got elected as County Commissioner, so he decided he better sell it. So I made a deal with him and I bought it. It was like a fifty by fifty square building-- concrete block building and got in it, and-- GS: What year was that that you bought that store? BW: Well let' ; s see, that had to be ' ; 62. GS: ' ; 62. BW: ' ; 62. And I just turned-- GS: What was-- BW: --twenty-one on my-- on April 1st and got my store on April 2nd. GS: Was there a store there before you bought it? BW: Yeah, Aaron Willeford owned the store. GS: Aaron Willeford owned the store. BW: Yeah, used to be Siner Grocery. Siner' ; s built the building and they sold it to Aaron and moved out in western Oklahoma some place. But Aaron had it for a few years and like I said, when he got elected County Commissioner, he worked for Jim Weaver with my dad too. GS: Okay, yeah. BW: And anyway, it was kind of a natural thing and I bought it. I was there for fifteen years. I more than doubled the size of the building. I had three houses on the lots behind it. It was a complete block along the lots-- or the block was. And I sold the houses off and built on the store and I made it like almost three times bigger than what it was. Put all new equipment in it and the M& ; P had sold out after I left to Hale-Halsell. It was a warehouse in Tulsa, it' ; s why they called it Super-H-- GS: Oh. BW: --back then. And good company, in fact I bought groceries all from ' ; em but I switched to Affiliated Foods. But they were number one in volume, I was number two in volume, and Safeway was a lagging number three. GS: Wow. BW: And of course we had a lot of other stores around too, but-- GS: Those were the three main stores. BW: That was the three main stores then. And I was on the edge of town and I had to draw the crowd from all over town. Your mother and dad traded with me. (Laughter) GS: See I don' ; t-- BW: Bless their hearts. GS: --even remember the Safeway before it was at Seventh and Main. BW: Yeah. GS: I thought when it was at Seventh and Main that' ; s when it first came in. BW: Yeah. GS: Because my folks always shopped with you and-- BW: Yeah. GS: I guess I just-- BW: Well you was young and you didn' ; t pay any attention. GS: I didn' ; t (Laughter). BW: You didn' ; t pay any attention to where your candy bars came from. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s right. BW: Anyway I was there for fifteen years and the Super-H store, one Friday night about midnight the police call me and said, " ; The Super- H Store is on fire." ; GS: Oh no. BW: And said, " ; Yours is the newest one in town." ; Said, " ; You better go out and stay with it, somebody might be burning stores." ; GS: Oh. BW: So I went out and stayed ' ; til, oh I don' ; t know one or two o' ; clock in the morning. And anyway Saturday morning my door bell ring about five o' ; clock. And I got up and answered the door. GS: Five o' ; clock. BW: And it was Hale-Halsell, a vice president and their store manager here in Bristow and, " ; What are you all doing out here?" ; he said, " ; Would you sell your store?" ; GS: Wow. BW: And I said, " ; What?" ; (Laughter) BW: He said, " ; Yeah." ; Said, " ; Ours is burned and we need a location." ; I said, " ; Well mine is brand new, all new equipment and new floors." ; Everything was brand new, you know a year old or so but-- GS: Right. BW: And I said, " ; Well I just-- I just don' ; t know." ; I said, " ; This is a shock." ; GS: (Laughter) BW: Then he said, " ; Well what time you close." ; And I said, " ; Nine o' ; clock on Saturday night." ; And they said, " ; Well have your mind made up and we' ; ll be there at nine o' ; clock tonight." ; At nine o' ; clock, went over to lock the front door. Here come about fifteen people in the door. GS: Oh my word. BW: And they just spread out in my store. GS: (Laughter) BW: And anyway this vice president said, " ; You got a place we can go and talk?" ; And I said, " ; We can go back in my little office." ; It was back behind the self-service meats and all that department. Went back there and he asked me what it would take to buy it, and or give me a price and I says, " ; No." ; I said, " ; You make me an offer." ; And he kind of studied around and he made me an offer. Well I knew what it was gonna take to buy it, I just wasn' ; t gonna tell him. The offer he made me was more than what I would' ; ve asked. (Laughter) BW: But I knew my inventory. I knew what I had in it and I knew that I had a million dollars' ; worth of the business in my hip pocket-- GS: Yeah. BW: --too. The ones that didn' ; t, probably go out of town or something. GS: Right. BW: But anyway, I just jumped the price up a little more and he stuck his hand. He said, " ; Is it a deal?" ; We shook hands. GS: Wow. BW: And that' ; s how I sold my store. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: And he told me-- he said, " ; Well since we' ; re making this deal tonight, we should get the receipts for Sunday. I said, " ; What?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: I said, " ; Well I' ; m not gonna run the store for you." ; And I said, " ; I' ; ll tell you what I' ; ll do. If you want possession of it Sunday morning, have your manager to meet me here and I' ; ll give him the key." ; And they said, " ; Well we don' ; t have any money." ; We all made night deposits back then at the bank. And he said, " ; What we had to open with the next morning is in a safe and it' ; s too hot, we can' ; t get in it." ; (Laughter) BW: So I said, " ; Well I tell you what, you have your manager meet me and I' ; ll count him out enough money to last you for all three registers and cash to cash checks with. And all you need to do is just, we' ; ll write it on a piece of paper the amount and he signs it and I sign it." ; So I loaned them like three or four thousand dollars the next morning (Laughter) to operate my store. GS: Wow. BW: Anyway, got that done and Monday morning, well I call David Leffner (ph) was of course the best lawyer in town back then. And I say the best, he was one of the lawyers. We got several good lawyers, even back then. (Laughter) GS: Yeah. BW: And-- but I' ; d done business with him. I called him up and told him what I done. First thing David says, " ; You made a deal Saturday night and they' ; re running your store today?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: He said, " ; Are you crazy?" ; I said, " ; No." ; I said, " ; I know the company and I did business with ' ; em and they know me. (Laughter) And I said, " ; We shook hands." ; GS: Yeah. BW: And he says, " ; Bob, you shoulda got something. You shoulda got a contract." ; I said, " ; If their handshake isn' ; t any good, their signature sure ain' ; t no good. (Laughter) BW: And that was my saying for years (Chuckling) GS: Well that' ; s a good saying. BW: But anyway, it went over so good. It took a little while cause it was several lots there and abstract on ever one of ' ; em. And it took about three or four months to get it straightened out between Leffner (ph) and the company lawyer. GS: And did you tell me what year that was? BW: That was in ' ; 70-- what' ; s fifteen years from ' ; 62? ' ; 77, ' ; 78-- GS: Okay. BW: -- somewhere along in there. Anyway, I' ; ll tell you how good a deal I had with ' ; em-- I didn' ; t make any provisions or say anything about if it took very long and it was still my profit until it was closed. But Hale-Halsell out on their own good will, paid me several thousand dollars a month extra for the three months it took to bring everything up to date. GS: Well good-- BW: --and closed. GS: --they should' ; ve (Laughter). BW: Yeah, and that' ; s how-- you know, they were honest. GS: Yes, they were and you knew that. BW: Yeah! But anyway, that' ; s what happened to me and after I sold the store-- and I gotta go back and say a few things too. The good people of Bristow were so good to me and I' ; m not talking about everybody up and down bank to bank and Main Street either, I' ; m talking about-- GS: The customers. BW: --the ole blue collared guys that was out working every day and I said, " ; They paid me so good" ; and I done a lot of credit. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And when I left that store and sold it, Audrey Gillum was my number one lady that checked groceries for me. They let me put a table there and a chair for her to sit and collect what collections I had. GS: Ah. BW: And after fifteen years of doing business out there of credit and checks, I lost less than two-thousand dollars. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: In fifteen years and that' ; s very unusual. GS: That is wonderful. BW: And they took care of me but bless their hearts, Levan Kelly of course known the Kelly family since I was a kid. GS: Yep. BW: And probably knew Levan better than any of ' ; em ' ; cause we rented a lot of their land. And we-- Levan would come by our house usually at dinner time. GS: (Laughter) BW: And he ate lunch with us at least once a month. GS: Oh my goodness. BW: And when I opened that store up in ' ; 62 he was the first one on that door step to congratulate me-- GS: Ah. BW: --on buying the store. In fact, he was the only one. (Laughter) GS: Wow. BW: But anyway, I' ; ll never forget that. And of course Tracy loaned me the money to do it. And some good words about Tracy, when they had his fiftieth anniversary-- they had an anniversary thing at the bank here years ago-- GS: Yes. BW: --and Tracy was losing his eye sight then. He couldn' ; t see really. GS: Right. BW: And of course me and Carolyn went up to the celebration to the bank. Walked up to Tracy, and said. " ; Tracy, congratulations." ; And all that. And he said, " ; Bob Webb." ; And I said, " ; How in the world did you" ; -- and he said, " ; I know your voice." ; GS: Uh-huh. BW: Stuck out his hand, we shook hands and I said, " ; Tracy, you and I worked together real good. You loaned me the money and I paid you back." ; (Laughter) BW: And-- GS: With interest! (Chuckling) BW: And he says, " ; Are you one of ' ; em that paid me back?" ; (Laughter) BW: Anyway, had good relations with them and still bank there too but, I was raised up at the other bank. That' ; s-- you usually bank where your folks were. GS: Right. BW: But, they loaned me the money! (Chuckling) GS: Exactly, exactly. BW: But, anyway, after I sold the store I never had hardly any vacation at all and I took my time about finding another job. And of course grocery business was an ideal thing for me. Affiliated tried to put me in a couple of stores. In fact, before I sold out Safeway had moved out of the one at Okemah that' ; s downtown, nice building. And moved out on I-40, close to I-40. GS: Yes. BW: And built a new store. Well, Bill Farha owned the building in Bristow and he also owned the one in Okemah, GS: Okay. BW: He built ' ; em for Safeway. GS: I did not know that. BW: And of course Bill traded with me at the store. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And we got together and he and I were gonna put that store in in Okemah. Beautiful building, big parking lot, and right in the middle of town. And we' ; d have probably put Safeway out of business earlier down there if we' ; d-- GS: Rival. BW: --of done it but anyway, Affiliated tried to get me to go ahead and do that and I thought-- you know I' ; ve took a chance and here it is ' ; 77, ' ; 78. Independent stores and all the trade-- grocery magazine said that independents were on their way out. It' ; s all gonna be chain stores. GS: Ah. BW: And I believed all that stuff. GS: Mmm. BW: Anyway, I told ' ; em-- I said, " ; No, I' ; m not gonna take a chance on another grocery store." ; Well would you believe and I' ; m sure you do, independents took over Oklahoma. Look at Reasor' ; s. GS: That' ; s true! BW: Independents are the big ones. Safeway, the big wholesaler in Oklahoma City, Fleming, (Indecipherable) and they owned a bunch of stores all over the nation too. Well it' ; s just completely different than what I thought and I know Reasor' ; s had a rough time. Larry Reasor, I knew him personally and he went broke. GS: Wow. BW: But his family, Escotts at Cushing-- GS: Escotts. BW: --saved the day for him. Reasor put a store right here in Bristow, right behind Mazzio' ; s. GS: Yes, I remember that. BW: And Larry-- GS: But it didn' ; t stay. BW: It didn' ; t go over-- Escotts his mother and father in law took it over for a while just to help him out. GS: Uh-huh. BW: But his son kind of took over the reins at Reasor' ; s and look at ' ; em today. GS: Yep. BW: Very successful so-- GS: They are. BW: I wondered if I made the right decision. But I went to work for Sysco Food Service and retired with them. And-- GS: I think you did fine, so-- BW: Well, you know it was a good company and I was looking for something with benefits. GS: And there aren' ; t as many headaches when you' ; re working for someone else. BW: Well, you know, (Chuckling) a lot of pressure when you' ; re running your own business. Especially-- GS: Yes, there is. BW: --when you' ; re young and doing a lot of credit. I was worried, one bad month would' ; ve put me down. GS: Yeah. BW: It would' ; ve. But like I say, the good people of Bristow stayed with me. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: And when I had the-- when I cut out the credit and all that, those people could' ; ve walked away from me and not even paid me ' ; cause they couldn' ; t go to another store and get credit. Well, they just-- everybody went to what they call a book plan and you send a check in with your grocery order. GS: Oh! BW: So when the wholesaler' ; s quit doing thirty-day credit, well the grocery stores had to quit doing-- GS: Well sure they did. BW: --thirty-day credit, cause there' ; s no cash flow. GS: Exactly. BW: But anyway, I can' ; t say enough about Bristow being good to me. GS: Yeah. BW: And I' ; ve-- I enjoyed working for Sysco, worked up to-- of course started out as salesman on the road. Created my own territory and about the second or third year I went in as sales manager. Had the office in Tulsa and went on up to regional manager which was half of Oklahoma, northwest Arkansas and parts of Kansas. GS: Very good. BW: And I had started out with about fifteen salesmen and when I retired I had like eighty-some salesmen. GS: Wow. That' ; s awesome, Bob. BW: And the president of the company told me, " ; Just run it like you did when you was on your territory and train your people like that." ; And that' ; s exactly what I did. And I had like a hundred and-- out of my office I did over a hundred and thirty, forty million dollars' ; worth of business. GS: Wow, that' ; s wonderful. BW: So it was-- it was a good operation and good company, honest company too. GS: So I know you' ; ve been busy since you retired. What have you done since you retired? BW: Well when I retired from Sysco, a month or so before I retired I went to John Hausam Realtors and they had classes for realtors. And I got my real-estate license, passed my test the first time, and good lord that was tough. But when I retired, went to work-- put my license with a-- oh a realtor out of Okmulgee County. They lived on the county line, Creek County and Okmulgee County out on a ranch and its real-estate. And there a farm couple, they been in the automobile business at Bixby running a dealership over there. But they wound up out on the farm and bought, oh I think they had two or three thousand acres up and down Big Deep Fork. And I put my license with them and I was the only man selling real estate when I started this. All the rest of them were ladies. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And of course I did commercial and farm and ranch. I' ; ve sold restaurants, convenience stores, and farm and ranch. I even sold Doodle' ; s Steakhouse. GS: Well. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, it was real good. Back when I started, it was a one-page listing and a sales contract was maybe a one or two pages, but after about ten, twelve years. It just about had to be a lawyer to do real estate. GS: My mother, it got to her-- BW: Yeah. GS: --and she had to get out for that reason. BW: But anyway, I stayed with it. I kept my license until a couple of years ago and I got-- I was appointed on the Industrial Board and about six months later they made me chairmen and the mayor put the Industrial Board in charge of all the city property. GS: Uh-huh. BW: About to go dead (Chucking) GS: No, I' ; m just double checking. (Laughter) BW: Anyway, the city turned that over to Industrial Board and of course they wanted to sell the Garment Factory and we had about fourteen lots that was given to The City of Bristow by a lady that was raised up in Bristow and she passed away out in California, and she donated them to the city of Bristow. So, they had already found a buyer for the Garment Factory but it-- nobody had closed it and they had sold it almost a year ago earlier. (Chuckling) GS: Oh. BW: And I got to looking at it and I said, " ; Hey what' ; s the deal here?" ; and they said, " ; Well no closings every been set up." ; And of course me being in real estate I jumped right on it. GS: Well sure. BW: And I got that closed and the buyer was just waiting on somebody to do it. GS: I would think that they would' ; ve pestered somebody to do it. BW: Well, evidently he had it he wasn' ; t worried about it. (Chuckling) GS: Huh. BW: So it wouldn' ; t cost him any money. GS: I see. BW: But anyway, it was a good sale and first think I did-- I got busy and got it closed out and the fourteen lots that was donated, I sold them to a builder and he' ; s already built two or three houses on some of the lots. And they' ; re homes that probably range from a hundred and ten to a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. GS: Hmm. BW: Anybody that' ; s got a job can probably qualify. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And they' ; re in an area of Bristow, Hickory and Poplar. GS: Yes. BW: Especially Hickory that needs to be cleaned up. GS: Yes. BW: She-- he' ; s cleared off all the lots and there was a couple of the houses that belong to some out of town people and I think he has bought those now. And he' ; s really cleaned it up and hopefully in the near future, there' ; ll be new homes there. So I-- you know I put my real estate license on vacation. GS: Yes. BW: ' ; Cause I didn' ; t want people to think I was making money off the city. GS: Right. BW: So I haven' ; t reactivated my license. GS: Well-- BW: I think I' ; m retired now from that. (Laughter) BW: What else Georgia Kay? GS: Well, let me look-- BW: Oh I lived out on the farm and I' ; ve still got a horse. I don' ; t-- I don' ; t run cows anymore. My three kids all live out of state and you can' ; t go visit and run off and leave cows. (Chuckling). So I sold all my cows and fertilized and resodded a lot of my pasture and now I bale hay and sell hay. GS: That' ; s good, that' ; s good. BW: I can run off and leave it. (Chuckling) GS: Here' ; s an interesting question. What would you consider to be the most important intervention during your life time? Invention, sorry not intervention. Invention. BW: Invention. Oh God. GS: There' ; s been a lot of ' ; em. BW: I' ; ll tell you two things that bothered me more than anything. GS: And that was a pager and a cell phone. (Laughter) GS: You sound like my husband. BW: Well out on the road in sales and everything, sometimes-- especially when I become the manager, I' ; d get so many pages and wanting you to call ' ; em back and stuff like that and it was hard to do. And same way with cellphones, especially if you was working with somebody or even running somebody' ; s territory. But that was probably an important thing and all the computers, laptops. On my laptop I had all of these salesmen' ; s business on my laptop. GS: Oh my. BW: Every customer they had and had a complete warehouse inventory on it. GS: Wow. BW: And that laptop was absolutely a gold mine. GS: Yes, it would be. BW: And it has since I' ; ve retired, it' ; s probably quadrupled what you can do with ' ; em. GS: Oh yeah. BW: And see that was in ' ; 98. GS: Oh yeah. BW: That they were-- GS: Lots happened-- BW: Yeah. GS: --since then. BW: But that was what the capability was back then. GS: Yeah, so probably the computer? BW: Oh yeah. Yeah. GS: Any significant changes you' ; ve seen in Bristow since you are on the Industrial Board or even like as a child that you know, you think were big improvements to Bristow? BW: Well you know-- GS: Or had a big impact to Bristow? BW: Yeah. I kinda beat around the bush about this, but you know a kid from the farm ; we came to town on Saturday. Main Street was just full ; you couldn' ; t find a parking place. And usually the farmers when they came in, they came in for the day. GS: Yes. BW: And you know, we' ; d go to the Walmur Theatre and get in there for a dime or so. Eat a hamburger at Llyon' ; s Café, and then dad would do his visiting up and down Main Street making (indecipherable) sale, or whatever. And mom would usually go to the Princess Theatre, that was where the adults went you know. GS: Okay, that' ; s why I never went to the Princess I guess much. BW: It was-- I didn' ; t go very often until I married her-- married Carolyn. (Chuckling) GS: Uh-huh. BW: But anyway, and the Main Street was just so busy. But you know, I' ; m on a couple other boards too and when we' ; re having general meetings or-- we' ; ve had a couple of meetings I' ; d hold ' ; em here in Bristow. And I had the Conservation District and we-- and a whole area Conservation Districts, which takes most of northeastern Oklahoma. And it was my turn to hold it here, I had it down at the Church of God where we go to church and we was gonna really impress ' ; em. So we ordered T-Bone steaks, we had like about a hundred people there. GS: Wow. BW: We ordered a hundred T-Bone steaks and had one of the farm service representatives to bring his cooker and cooked them outside the Church of God. GS: Wow. BW: And baked potatoes, the whole ball of wax. Anyway, of course I gave a-- GS: And this is for Conservation-- BW: Yeah, this is-- GS: --Group? BW: --all of northeastern Oklahoma-- GS: Oh okay. BW: --Area of Conservation Districts. And there' ; s a district in every county. (Chuckling) GS: Yes, yes. BW: So we had a lot of people there. GS: Yes. BW: And this was board members. Anyway, I gave-- I got up and gave a little talk and a welcome to Bristow and I said, " ; While you' ; re here, I want you to go out by our school system, drive around our lake, and I want you to notice when you go up and down Main Street, how busy Bristow Main Street is." ; And I said this a many of time. Between Tulsa and Oklahoma City, Bristow' ; s Main Street is the busiest one. GS: I agree with you there. BW: It is! GS: Mm-hmm. BW: And of course if they catch it early in the morning, or late in the evening, it' ; s worse than anything else. (Laughter) GS: Yes. BW: But it kindly reminds you-- I mean through the day. You go to Stroud, you go to Chandler, you don' ; t see that over there. GS: No. BW: Only time you see it in Chandler, if its court day. (Chuckling) There' ; ll be a little business there then. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And you go to Sapulpa, it don' ; t compare to ours. GS: Uh-huh. BW: Cause their Main Street' ; s not as busy as the one that' ; s going east and west, what is it Dew-- GS: Dewey, I believe. BW: Yeah. GS: Yeah. BW: That' ; s it. Our Main Street' ; s busier than Sapulpa' ; s. GS: (Indecipherable) BW: And they all-- well they even applauded. (Laughter) BW: And I said, " ; If any of yall want to move to Bristow give me a call, I' ; m in real estate." ; (Laughter) GS: There you go. There you go. Well, can you think of anything else that you would like to add? BW: Yeah. And this' ; ll give you a little project, maybe. GS: Okay. BW: Maybe. GS: Okay. BW: When they first opened it up, down at the railroad station-- GS: Uh-huh. BW: I had a picture of my dad-- my grandad, I' ; m sorry. And-- GS: And what was his name? BW: Charlie Webb Senior. GS: Okay. BW: And-- GS: So your dad was Charlie Webb and your grandfather was Charlie Webb? BW: Yeah. GS: Senior. Okay. BW: Yeah. Anyway, when he was a young man here in Bristow Arthur Foster' ; s dad-- what was his name, I' ; ll be darn. GS: Who' ; s dad did you say? BW: Arthur Foster' ; s GS: Arthur Foster' ; s. BW: Well, I' ; ll be darn. Steve' ; s (ph) son is named after him. (Chuckling) GS: Okay. I' ; ll find out (Chuckling). BW: They were friends and my grandad and Tall-- Tall Foster (ph). GS: Oh okay, that' ; s an unusual name. BW: And Anna Louis Foster (ph) GS: Yes. BW: They were on horseback and they were in the middle of Main Street where the Community State Bank is now. GS: Yes. BW: And where the stationary office supply' ; s at. GS: Yes. BW: They were all three of ' ; em on horses and they all three had black suits. That' ; s about the only suit a man would wear back then was a black suit. GS: Yes. BW: They had black suits on, black hats, and on their horses. And there' ; s a picture of them down there in the museum. And when I was on the School Board here in Bristow, Ms. Foster (ph) after she retired, she got on the School Board and I got this picture and I made her a copy of it and gave it to her. And I said-- and Arthur was still alive at the time. And she was so proud of that picture, she took it down there and they displayed it. GS: Ah. BW: And anyway-- GS: At the museum? BW: At the museum. Anyway, they change ' ; em around once in a while. GS: Yes. BW: Anyway, I' ; ve ask ' ; em about that picture over the last three or four years. And it' ; s probably stored down there some place. GS: The problem with-- I' ; ll address that pretty soon. BW: Yeah, I gotcha. Well, you know and I' ; ve ask about it, but they-- that' ; s when they was having to move stuff around and all that. But I hope it didn' ; t get lost. GS: I doubt if it' ; s lost-- BW: ' ; Cause they got the-- GS: We just-- BW: --they got the original. GS: --have to locate it. BW: Yeah. But anyway, I think I may-- I' ; ve still got the original. GS: But that' ; s something we' ; re working on. BW: Yeah, yeah. But anyway, that was a coincidence. But there' ; s a lot of other things I could tell you about. The old times, but I had a great uncle that was a brother to this Uncle Isaac that was a Marshal. GS: Yes, yes. BW: His younger brother-- the youngest one in the family. They lived out on a farm out the edge of Bristow. I think it was out here on 16. Just about straight across-- well down where yall live. GS: Okay. BW: Anyway their neighbors, and they were good friends-- the families were. But something happened-- an animal got in one of ' ; ems garden. And I think it was one of my grandad' ; s cow or hog or something-- GS: Got in the other one' ; s garden? BW: Got in the other one' ; s garden. And right by the Community State Bank where it' ; s at now, here come the father and the son of the family that lived next door. And they-- the boy wasn' ; t about fifteen, sixteen years old and the old man jumped my great uncle, and they had a little scuffle and they stabbed my uncle. GS: Oh my word! BW: And he started across the street to where the office supply is at. GS: Yes. BW: And then they shot him. GS: (Gasp) No! BW: Shot him in the back. Anyway, since the young man was-- of course they didn' ; t do anything to him. But his dad, they sent him to prison. GS: And so I guess your great uncle died. BW: Oh yeah, he died. Died right on the spot. GS: Ah. BW: Died in the middle of the street-- Main Street. GS: Ah. BW: And anyway, the old man-- I say old man, he was probably forty years old. Might not have even been that old. But he went to prison for a few years and when he got out of prison, he got killed. GS: Somebody killed him. BW: And I think I know who it was. GS: Oh! BW: The US Marshal. (Chuckling) GS: Oh. (Chuckling) BW: I mean, that story-- and the bad thing about it, or the good thing about I guess you' ; d say. Those families went back together and got close. GS: Well that' ; s good. BW: To this day, I even sold the young man that was with his dad that killed my uncle? I even sold their property. I sold his brother' ; s property. GS: My goodness. BW: I mean the families got so close. GS: Huh. BW: And my grandad lived just east of the county barn about two blocks. GS: Now what was your uncle' ; s name that got killed? BW: Harrison. GS: Harrison Webb? BW: Yeah. GS: And, do you have any idea about what decade that would' ; ve been? BW: It would' ; ve been in between-- before the ' ; 20s. GS: Before the ' ; 20s. BW: Yeah. GS: Bristow was still young then. BW: Yeah, yeah. GS: Dirt roads on Main Street and-- BW: Dirt streets, yeah. And anyway, my grand-- grandad-- a brother to the one that got killed. Lived east of the county barn and a brother to one of the people that killed my great uncle lived about two to three blocks away and they were good friends. Every birthday my grandmother or grandad or his wife-- and wife and husband-- they celebrated birthdays together. GS: Wow. BW: That' ; s how close the family was. GS: Yeah. BW: And me and Carolyn thought the world of ' ; em. GS: Isn' ; t that something. Well, you know you can' ; t hold responsibility for all your relatives. BW: Well, you know it' ; s just-- they would had to be good friends to get back together like that. GS: Yes, they did. BW: So. GS: Well. BW: But I know several other stories, but you might want to edit that out I don' ; t know. GS: No-- BW: I didn' ; t give you any names. GS: --I think that' ; s a good story! BW: (Chuckling) GS: No you didn' ; t, you didn' ; t say who the other people were so that' ; s alright. BW: And everybody else is-- GS: (Chuckling) BW: --passed on. GS: Yep, yep. BW: Except maybe-- well probably not any rest of ' ; em live around here now. GS: Yeah. Okay, do your children still live around here? BW: No. Robert JR, he lives in Phoenix. He' ; s been there for-- oh gosh, twenty-five years. GS: How old would Rob be now? BW: He' ; ll be about sixty-one now. GS: Okay. BW: He graduated-- all three kids graduated OSU. He went to work for General Foods and they moved him to southern California for about four or five years and then to Phoenix. And they was getting ready to move him again and he said, " ; I' ; m not moving again." ; So-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --he resigned and went to Arizona State and got his masters and as soon as he walked out he went straight to Intel and now he does all the contracts for Intel. GS: Good for him. BW: This is worldwide (Chuckling). GS: Good for him. BW: So he' ; s got a good job and been with them-- he' ; ll probably be retiring in the next few years too. GS: Okay. BW: Sue, my daughter-- that' ; s the middle kid. Lives in Alameda, California and she finished at OSU she got in the car and had interviews. Well she trained in TV and Journalism. GS: Ah. BW: And she got a job in Wichita Falls, Texas. The guy that owned the CBS station there also owned an advertising company and he put her to work. And Tom, her husband graduated after she did and she put his name in a pot at the TV station, and he came down and he got it and he was the director of the news and all the morning and evening news. And they were there for about a year or so and they went to Alameda, California and Tom went to work for the-- what' ; s the big-- Federal Reserve Bank. GS: Oh okay. BW: And he' ; s been with them now about thirty-three years. GS: That' ; s awesome. BW: And he' ; s probably-- GS: Gosh, it doesn' ; t-- BW: --going to retire this year. GS: --seem possible. BW: Yeah, yeah. (Laughter) BW: And Sue, she went to work for an advertising company and she had-- in fact, (chuckling) when she was at OSU they put billboards all around the state with her carrying a tray and it said, " ; Good ole boys don' ; t drink and drive." ; GS: Ah! BW: But these billboards were all over the state. GS: Oh I' ; d loved to have seen one of ' ; em. BW: Well, there was one down at Okmulgee, and of course on major highways is where-- GS: I probably wouldn' ; t have known it was her if I saw it. BW: A lot of people didn' ; t realize that probably. GS: I bet not. Ah. BW: But anyway, she did the same thing out there. She went to work for an advertising company, and she was-- they used her as a model. GS: Wow. BW: But-- GS: So she was a pretty, young lady. BW: Well, she done good and she went to work for-- after she got through with that, well she went to work for-- oh it' ; s a food program-- food bank thing. And she' ; d go out and make all the contacts for different companies and send trucks by to pick up food that they donated to the food bank. GS: Good. Good for her. And Stacy' ; s where? BW: Stacy, he was in Oklahoma City. He was a director at the-- at the Omniplex. He was one-- GS: Oh really! BW: He was one of the directors down there for about four or five years and he got the hankering to go someplace else and he followed somebody all the way to Portland, Oregon. GS: Wow. BW: And he worked out there for two or three years. Bought a condo and anyway, the place where he worked-- hard times hit Oregon pretty bad back ten years ago. GS: Ah. BW: And the place where he worked, they shut it down. GS: Ah. BW: And he was scared to death, but he got-- heard of an opportunity in San Francisco. And the Hurst (ph) family has got a thing out there. I forget the name of it, Carolyn might' ; ve gave it to you. Where they do-- for families that don' ; t have homes and-- GS: Okay. BW: Cause a lot of people live in cars and live on the railroad tracks and-- GS: Oh my. BW: --all of that. But he-- (Chuckling) he goes out and hits all of the businesses up for donations. GS: Well good for him. BW: And he' ; s got-- he' ; s done great out here. GS: Oh good for him. BW: He' ; s done good. GS: Good for him. BW: So-- GS: Well Bob, I have just enjoyed our interview tremendously and I appreciate ever so much-- BW: Oh, you bet. GS: --you taking the extra time (Chuckling). BW: Well. GS: For this. BW: I hope we both got it recorded. (Laughter) GS: I hope so too! Thanks a lot Bob. BW: Well, I appreciate you too and want to let everybody know. I' ; ve known this girl for years. She babysitted for us-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --when we lived across the street from ' ; em. GS: And he still calls me Eegee Kay. BW: Yeah! GS: Because that' ; s what little Stacy would call me. (Chuckling) BW: Yep. (Laughter) End of interview. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-07_Webb_Bob.xml OHP-2020-07_Webb_Bob.xml
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Bob Webb
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: In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area.
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Quince Brown
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0003-V Quince Brown, Bristow's WWII Fighter Ace OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince 00:30:01 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Quince Brown WWII Flying Ace Fighter Pilot m4v OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince 1:|57(1)|66(10)|74(1)|84(3)|92(3)|99(3)|102(5)|107(11)|112(5)|116(7)|120(4)|127(4)|133(13)|141(2)|150(3)|153(10)|161(1)|166(17)|172(3)|183(1)|193(7)|202(10)|207(9)|213(7)|219(4)|229(9)|239(12)|250(4)|261(2)|268(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince.m4v Other video 42 George Krumme's Introduction My name is George Krumme and I was a Bristow boy, Quince Brown1 was a slightly older Bristow boy, who became an ace fighter pilot in World War II before he was shot down and killed over in Germany 3 months after D Day. When I learned that his nephew, Rusty Brown, had a video showing clips of Quince’s fighter group, I thought it appropriate that a shortened video be made from it for those of us who have an interest in the history of World War II with a particular emphasis on Quince’s outstanding record. So, here it is! Ace Fighter Pilot ; Bristow ; George Krumme ; Germany ; Quince Brown ; World War II https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363700/quince-lucien-brown Quince Lucien Brown's Grave 267 78th Fighter Group. P-47 Era 1943-1944 This is Bob Ebee speaking on this January day in 1987 the 16-millimeter film on this videotape was shot in 1943 and 1944 at the Duxford airbase located 10 miles South of Cambridge, England. The 78th fighter group arrived in England in November of 1942 and flew their first combat mission from Duxford on April 13, 1943 (Pause in recording) This is Col. Armond(ph.) Peterson, the first group commander of the 78th. He served from May 1942 until his loss on a combat mission July 1st, 1943. Lt. Harry Dayhuff was the first 82nd squadron commanding officer who served until August of 1943. 1943 ; 1944 ; 1987 ; 364th Squadron ; 78th Fighter Group ; 82nd squadron ; 83rd Squadron ; Bob Ebee ; Bombers ; Cambridge England ; Col. Armond Peterson ; Col. Jim Stone ; Combat mission ; Duxford Air Base ; Jake Oberhansley ; Lt. Harry Dayhuff ; Major McBay ; Mission briefing 300 Lt. Maddle U.S Combat Film No. 141 This is the first of about 15 minutes of selected 78th group combat film. Note that the title gives the pilot's name, the squadron, the date and the target. Note also the English gives the day first and the month second thus 30 dash 7 means July 30th. You note the pieces of the German plane flying by. 78th Fighter Group ; Combat Formation ; German Plane 337 Lt. Pompetti U.S Combat Film No. 150 This isn’t very clear, but those big object in the background are our b-17 bombers. The mission of July 30th, 1943 held the record for first in the 78th combat history. It was the first belly tank mission and extended the p-47 range to permit crossing the border of Germany for the first time. 1943 ; B-17 Bombers ; Belly Tank ; Germany ; P-47 374 Maj. Roberts U.S Combat Film No.191 Major Gene Roberts shot down 3 German planes to become the first U.S pilot to get a triple air victory on one mission. Charlie Linden(ph.) shot down his fourth and fifth planes to become the first U.S ace in the European theater Charlie Linden ; European Theater ; German Plane ; Maj, Gene Roberts ; Triple Air Victory ; U.S Ace ; U.S Pilot 422 Capt. Price U.S Combat Film No. 192 Jack Price had a total of five air victories. We lost our second group commander on this July 30th mission, when Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle was shot down on his first mission and became a prisoner of war. Flak in the lower left. Capt. Jack Price ; Flak ; Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle ; Prisoner of War 468 Lt. Brown U.S Combat Film No. 194 and 425 The final first on July 7th -er July 30th, 1943 is shown here when Quine Brown dropped down to the deck on his return from escorting the bombers (Pause in recording) to become the first us fighter pilot to shoot up a ground target in a European theater. Bombers ; European Theater ; Ground Targets ; Quince Brown ; U.S Fighter Pilot European Theater in World War II — US Army Divisions (armydivs.com) European Theater 491 Maj. Roberts U.S Combat Film No. 550 Lt. Col. Gene Roberts CO of the 84th had the third-highest number of air victories for the 78th group with a total of nine 78th Fighter Group ; 84th Fighter Group ; Air Victories ; Lt. Col. Gene Roberts 543 F/O Pompetti U.S Combat Film No. 421 Pete Pompetti was another leader in air victories with six. He was shot down in early 1944 and was a prisoner of war. Good hits. It’s too bad the exposure isn’t better. Unfortunately, a lot of the combat film I have was not originals and some clarity is always lost in making copies and then more clarity is lost in converting 16 millimeter to video. 1944 ; Air Victories ; Fighter Pilot ; Pete Pompetti ; Prisoner of War 578 Lt. C.R Clark Combat Film No. 164 This is a little better being able to see the clouds, and this is-this is one of the more clear of the series. 78th Fighter Group ; 82 Squadron ; Fighter Pilot 615 Lt. J.J Hockery U.S Combat Film No. 165 John Hockery was the fifth leader in air victories with seven. This is another fairly clear exposure compared to many of them. He’s getting good hits there’s pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in recording) This film was used to convert-confirm victories for the pilot. Air Victories ; German Plane ; John Hockery 630 1st LT. Q.L Brown U.S Combat Film No. 310 Quince Brown was the leading ace of the 78th with 13 victories before he was lost on a strafing run. (Pause in recording) There’s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range. Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. 78th Fighter Group ; Ace ; B-7 Bomber ; Fighter Pilot ; Strafing Run 655 LT. Col. H.J Dayhuff U.S Combat Film No. 245 There’s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range 78th Fighter Group ; Fighter Pilot ; Harry Dayhuff 696 Lt. M.S Martinez U.S Combat Film No. 249 Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. Very good hits for that range. B-7 Bomber ; Combat formation 729 Lt. G.M Turley U.S Combat Film No. 879 Hell that German pilot has put his wheels down perhaps to slow down so the American pilot will overrun him. Grant Turley had six air victories before not returning from a combat mission. He’s going to get proof positive of a victory as you see the German pilot beel(ph.) out in a moment. American Pilot ; Combat Mission ; German Pilot ; Grant Turley 744 Lt. P.H. Hazelett U.S Combat Film No. 2062 Ground strafing was very exciting but much more hazardous than aerial combat the higher loss ratio resulted from intense ground fire. 78th Fighter Group ; Ground Strafing ; Lt. Hazelett ; World War II 764 Capt. W.L Boone U.S Combat Film No. 2054 Direct hits from ground fire was not too common for fighter planes at high altitudes. 78th Fighter Group ; Fighter Pilots ; Ground Fire ; World War II 802 Lt. B.M Watkins U.S Combat Film No. 2055 The 78th group set the record for the European Theater when they destroyed 135 planes on the ground on their mission of April 16th, 1945. The 78th flew a total of 450 combat missions from April 13th, 1943 to April 25th, 1945. 1945 ; 78th Fighter Group ; Combat Mission ; European Theater 837 LT. J.J Hockery U.S Combat Film No. 2150 The group destroyed three hundred thirty-eight and a half German planes in the air and three hundred fifty-eight and a half on the ground for a total of six hundred ninety-seven German planes destroyed for a loss of 167 P-47s and P-51’s. This is a ratio of four German planes lost for one U.S plane lost. A P-47 cost $104,260 in 1943 and today a modern jet fighter cost several million dollars in comparison. 1943 ; 78th Fighter Group ; German Planes ; Jet Fighter ; P-47 ; U.S Plane 969 Capt. N.D Munson U.S Combat Film No. 2298 The 78th group flew P-38’s in 1942 while in the States and while training for combat in England. Priorities in North Africa in late 1942 resulted in all our P-38’s and all but fifteen or sixteen pilots being transferred to North Africa. We received P-47s in early Jan of 1943 and flew them for two years when they were replaced by P-51s in early 1945. The 78th was the only group to fly all three of the first-line air force fighter planes. 78th Fighter Group ; Doug Munson ; England ; First-Line Air Force Fighter Planes ; Ground Strafing ; Ground Targets ; Locomotive ; North Africa ; P-38's ; P-47's ; P-51's 997 Lt. J.W Wilkinson U.S Combat Film No. 2293 Jim Wilkins was credited with shooting down 7 and a half German planes before being lost 2 days before D-Day on a strafing run in England. When the steam comes out of the locomotives like that you know you’ve destroyed a lot of the boiler tubes. D-Day ; England ; German Planes ; Jim Wilkinson ; Locomotive ; Strafing Run 1037 Capt. W.W May U.S Combat Film No. 2287 I edited out -uh -uh seemed like quite a 20 or 30 seconds Willy Mays chasing this plane for what seems like long enough to run out of ammunition, but in a few seconds, you will see one of the most spectacular shots of a German plane being shot down as he shoots the left-wing of here in a few moments. 78th Fighter Group ; German Plane ; Willy Mays ; World War II 1125 Lt. Juchheim U.S Combat Film No. 3687 Alex Juchhiem was our second leading ace with 11 air victories. An interesting statics is four of our top seven aces were lost. A total of 11 of the 78th pilots became aces while flying with our group. They had a total of 79 and a half air victories of or 23% of the 338 and ½ air victories for the group. I think the pilot is going to beel out of this one in a moment. 78th Fighter Group ; Ace ; Air Victories ; World War II 1144 Lt. P.H. Hazelett U.S Combat Film No. 3687 78th Fighter Group ; U.S Pilot ; World War II 1514 Maj. Bob Ebee Here I am. You can see I’m a major now, so it's sometime in mid-1944 and I must be out of pipe Tabaco, as the only time I smoke cigarettes is when my supply of mixture 79 was en route from the states. This is the first of my 3 P-47s, named for my daughter Vivian Gaile(ph.). Gaile was 2 months old when I left her and (indecipherable) in California and took a troop train to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, and the Queen Elizabeth troopship to Scotland. This plane was shot down on a mission with another pilot flying it in February of 1944. 1944 ; 50 Caliber Gun ; Barges ; California ; Camp Kilmer ; Cockpit ; Combat ; Crew Chief ; D-Day ; Dive-Bombing Mission ; Dolly Parton ; France ; German Truck ; Ground Fire ; Ground Personnel ; Locomotive ; Major ; Marshaling Yard ; May West ; ME-109 ; New Jersey ; Queen Elizabeth Troopship ; Scotland ; Sgt. John Harris ; Skip Bombing ; Spitfire Pilots ; Strafing Mission ; Supply Train ; Yanks 1800 Quince Brown and The Bristow Connection This is George Krumme again, we’ve come to the end of the commentary by Bob Ebee, but for those of us interested on Quine Brown and the Bristow connection here are some additional comments. Quince was born in 1917, he graduated from Bristow High school and attended Bristow Junior College and Oklahoma A & ; M college briefly, before earning his air-core wings at Kelly Field on April 25th, 1941, 7 months before the beginning of World War II. He severed as a flight instructor at Randolph, Kelly, and Majors airfields in Texas and taught a year at the Enid army flying school. " ; Gott Strafe England" ; ; 78th Fighter Group ; A& ; M College ; Air Cadets ; Air Medal ; Air-Core Wings ; Aircraft ; Anti-Aircraft Fire ; Bristow ; Bristow High School ; Bristow Junior College ; Combat Duty ; Dale Mayberry Flying School ; Distinguished Flying Cross with Four Oak Leaf Clusters ; Duxford Air Base ; Enid, Oklahoma ; Florida ; French Croix de Gurre ; Full Military Honors ; George Krumme ; German Airfield ; Germany ; Kelly Field ; Leading Ace ; London, England ; Machine ; Majors Airfield ; Oak Leaf Clusters ; Oklahoma Aviation and Space Hall of Fame ; Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame ; Prisoner of War List ; Quince Brown ; Quince L. Brown Parkway ; Randolph Airfield ; Republic P-47 Thunderbolt ; S.S Representative ; Silver Star ; Strafing Fighter ; Texas ; Vance Airbase ; War Bond Drive ; World War I ; World War II N 35° 49.731 W 096° 24.321 17 Quince L. Brown - VFW War Memorial - Bristow, OK Quince Lucien Brown Jr | American Air Museum in Britain American Air Museum in Britain Croix de Guerre | French military award | Britannica French Croix de Guerre Oak leaf cluster | Military Wiki | Fandom (wikia.org) Oak Leaf Clusters Air Medal: Eligibility and History - Medals of America - Military Blog Air Medal Distinguished Flying Cross (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia Distinguished Flying Cross Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame (okhistory.org)- OK Military Hall of Fame Oklahoma Fly-Boy - MEDALS & ; DECORATIONS - U.S. Militaria Forum (usmilitariaforum.com) Quince Brown- Medals and Decorations Vance Air Force Base > ; Home (af.mil) Vance Air Force Base-Enid OK Gott Strafe England | The Western Front Association Gott Strafe England-Germany WWI Narrator: George Krumme (GK) Narrator: Bob Ebee (BE) Other Persons: Quince Brown Date of Narration: January 1987 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Riley Wilson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince Abstract: This DVD contains films from the cockpit of Fighter Groups flying during World War II from the years 1942-1944. Among the pilots was Quince Brown, a Bristow native, who was named the leading ace in the 78th fighter group with more than 130 combat missions. Quince remained the leading ace throughout the remainder of the war and after his death. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GK: My name is George Krumme and I was a Bristow boy. Quince Brown1 was a slightly older Bristow boy, who became an ace fighter pilot in World War II before he was shot down and killed over in Germany 3 months after D-Day. When I learned that his nephew, Rusty Brown, had a video showing clips of Quince' ; s fighter group, I thought it appropriate that a shortened video be made from it for those of us who have an interest in the history of World War II with a particular emphasis on Quince' ; s outstanding record. So, here it is! BE: This is Bob Ebee speaking on this January day in 1987 the 16-millimeter film on this videotape was shot in 1943 and 1944 at the Duxford airbase located 10 miles South of Cambridge, England. The 78th fighter group arrived in England in November of 1942 and flew their first combat mission from Duxford on April 13, 1943 (Pause in Narration) This is Col. Armond(ph.) Peterson, the first group commander of the 78th. He served from May 1942 until his loss on a combat mission July 1st, 1943. Lt. Harry Dayhuff was the first 82nd squadron commanding officer who served until August of 1943. This is Col. Jim Stone, the first 83rd squadron CO until promoted to group commander in August 1943. Gene Roberts was first 84 squadron commanding officer later group exec. and still later group commanding officer of the 364th fighter group. Major McBay, the group intelligence officer, and his staff are preparing the briefing room map for a combat mission briefing. The weather officer is advising the cloud formations and winds to be expected in route to the rendezvousing with the bombers and on the way home. (Pause in Narration) Jake Oberhansley(ph.) is advising key details of the mission as he is the group leader of the simulated mission briefing which was staged for the benefit of the photographer. (Pause in Narration) The pilots leaving the briefing room are in a somewhat more jovial mood than would be normal for a real briefing. (Pause in Narration) This is the control tower from where all instructions (Pause in Narration) landings at the Duxford field. Duxford was a grass field which had some advantages and some disadvantages. Only 2 fighter planes could take off together on paved runways we could take off 8 at a time which saved precious fuel circling the field waiting to form up after the takeoff. Note the belly tanks, for extending the range on this mission. The group leader would fly out for 2 and 1/2 minutes and then make a slow wide turn to come back over the field. All 48 planes plus spares would be in formation and on course to the target or rendezvous area by the time the lead plane was back to the field. (Pause in Narration) BE: This shows the group formation for-for climbing out to the combat area where the flights and squadrons would then spread out to combat formation. (Pause in Narration) This is the first of about 15 minutes of selected 78th group combat film. Note that the title gives the pilot' ; s name, the squadron, the date and the target. Note also the English gives the day first and the month second thus 30 dash 7 means July 30th. You note the pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in Narration) This isn' ; t very clear, but those big object in the background are our b-17 bombers. The mission of July 30th, 1943 held the record for first in the 78th combat history. It was the first belly tank mission and extended the P-47 range to permit crossing the border of Germany for the first time. Major Gene Roberts shot down 3 German planes to become the first U.S pilot to get a triple air victory on one mission. Charlie Linden(ph.) shot down his fourth and fifth planes to become the first U.S ace in the European theater. (Pause in Narration) Jack Price had a total of five air victories. We lost our second group commander on this July 30th mission, when Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle was shot down on his first mission and became a prisoner of war. Flak in the lower left. (Pause in Narration) The final first on July 7th -er July 30th, 1943 is shown here when Quine Brown dropped down to the deck on his return from escorting the bombers (Pause in Narration) to become the first us fighter pilot to shoot up a ground target in a European theater. (Pause in Narration) Lt. Col. Gene Roberts CO of the 84th had the third-highest number of air victories for the 78th group with a total of nine. (Pause in Narration) Pete Pompetti was another leader in air victories with six. He was shot down in early 1944 and was a prisoner of war. (Pause in Narration) Good hits. It' ; s too bad the exposure isn' ; t better. Unfortunately, a lot of the combat film I have was not originals and some clarity is always lost in making copies and then more clarity is lost in converting 16 millimeter to video. This is a little better being able to see the clouds, and this is-this is one of the more clear of the series. (Pause in Narration) John Hockery was the fifth leader in air victories with seven. This is another fairly clear exposure compared to many of them. He' ; s getting good hits there' ; s pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in Narration) This film was used to convert-confirm victories for the pilot. Quince Brown was the leading ace of the 78th with 13 victories before he was lost on a strafing run. (Pause in Narration) There' ; s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range. (Pause in Narration) Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. BE: Very good hits for that range. Hell, that German pilot has put his wheels down perhaps to slow down so the American pilot will overrun him. Grant Turley had six air victories before not returning from a combat mission. He' ; s going to get proof positive of a victory as you see the German pilot beel(ph.) out in a moment. (Pause in Narration) There he is. He' ; s not shooting at the pilot, he' ; s- there' ; s a switch to put the camera on only. Ground strafing was very exciting but much more hazardous than aerial combat the higher loss ratio resulted from intense ground fire. Direct hits from ground fire was not too common for fighter planes at high altitudes. (Pause in Narration) Planes lined up in a row like on this last film and on this one resulted in heavy losses for the Germans. The 78th group set the record for the European Theater when they destroyed 135 planes on the ground on their mission of April 16th, 1945. The 78th flew a total of 450 combat missions from April 13th, 1943 to April 25th, 1945. The group destroyed three hundred thirty-eight and 1/2 German planes in the air and three hundred fifty-eight and 1/2 on the ground for a total of six hundred ninety-seven German planes destroyed for a loss of 167 P-47' ; s and P-51' ; s. This is a ratio of four German planes lost for one U.S plane lost. A P-47 cost $104,260 in 1943 and today a modern jet fighter cost several million dollars in comparison. The 78th group flew P-38' ; s in 1942 while in the States and while training for combat in England. Priorities in North Africa in late 1942 resulted in all our P-38' ; s and all but fifteen or sixteen pilots being transferred to North Africa. We received P-47' ; s in early Jan of 1943 and flew them for two years when they were replaced by P-51' ; s in early 1945. The 78th was the only group to fly all three of the first-line air force fighter planes. One of the most spectacular ground strafing explosion is on this series of Doug Munson. His is a very unusual combat film as it includes air to air, a larger number of planes being shot on the ground plus -uh shooting up a locomotive and other ground targets. (Pause in Narration) Isn' ; t that spectacular! Look at those pieces flying, he has to fly through. Doesn' ; t show up yet but he has a German plane trying to land before getting shot down. There it' ; s coming into view. I don' ; t recall whether Doug caused that plane to crash, or whether it landed before he was out of control. Jim Wilkins was credited with shooting down 7 and 1/2 German planes before being lost 2 days before D-Day on a strafing run in England. When the steam comes out of the locomotives like that you know you' ; ve destroyed a lot of the boiler tubes. (Pause in Narration) I edited out -uh -uh seemed like quite a 20 or 30 seconds Willy Mays chasing this plane for what seems like long enough to run out of ammunition, but in a few seconds, you will see one of the most spectacular shots of a German plane being shot down as he shoots the left-wing of here in a few moments. (Pause in Narration) There it goes. Alex Juchhiem was our second leading ace with 11 air victories. An interesting statics is four of our top seven aces were lost. A total of 11 of the 78th pilots became aces while flying with our group. They had a total of 79 and 1/2 air victories of or 23% of the 338 and ½ air victories for the group. I think the pilot is going to beel out of this one in a moment. There he comes. I selected these 23 mission combat films for not only being some of the most spectacular examples but also because the original exposure was far better than normal. A lot of clarity is lost in converting this 43-year-old film to video and much of the group combat film was far from being a good exposure when taken. (Pause in Narration) BE: Here I am. You can see I' ; m a major now, so it' ; s sometime in mid-1944 and I must be out of pipe Tabaco, as the only time I smoke cigarettes is when my supply of mixture 79 was en route from the States. This is the first of my 3 P-47' ; s, named for my daughter Vivian Gaile(ph.). Gaile was 2 months old when I left her and [indecipherable] in California and took a troop train to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, and the Queen Elizabeth troopship to Scotland. This plane was shot down on a mission with another pilot flying it in February of 1944. I was hit by ground fire 3 times while flying and had to leave the second V. Gaile on an emergency field in France 2 weeks after D-Day with 2 or 3 cylinder heads shot off and leaking oil quite rapidly. The cockpit of the P-47 was very roomy, the spitfire pilots claimed that to take evasive action in combat, the yanks just loosened their seatbelts and ran around the cockpit. I flew spitfires for a month and the cockpit were very cramped by comparison The vest I am wearing is for floatation emergencies if you found yourself in the water for whatever reason. It was dubbed a May West for reasons which were more obvious when it was inflated, today I suspect it might be called a Dolly Parton. This is Bill Vicory(ph.), assistant crew chief of the V. Gaile, and the other man is Harold Zonn(ph.), the radio maintenance man for my flight. Note the 50 caliber gun sticking out the leading edge of the wing. And this is Sgt. John Harris crew chief for all three of the V. Gailes. The [indecipherable] man is servicing the four 50 caliber in each wing, this was standard procedure each time the gun was fired. Ground personnel were highly competent and were dedicated to keeping their planes in perfect condition with no regard to long hours often required to get a plane to combat readiness. BE: I took this picture of a bridge before releasing two 5oo pound bombs on this skip bombing-bombing mission. I had spotted two locomotives on my approach and got the first shots at them, the first one coming up here. There' ; s normal procedure for everyone in the flight to follow in trail on these strafing missions like this. (Pause in Narration) I got hit in the windshield by ground fire while strafing this marshaling yard, the bulletproof glass in front of my face deflected the bullet out the top of the canopy. This is strafing -uh supply train. Another train. (Pause in Narration) There' ; s a locomotive, -uh that is the target on this -uh run. More supply trains. (Pause in Narration) Still more supply trains. We' ; d usually work our way back along the railroad track when returning on the deck from a mission. There' ; s a German truck trying to hide in this row of trees. You can see him moving right there. He didn' ; t make it, he had something burning, made a pretty good fire. Barges also carried supplies, I would think it would take a lot of 50 caliber bullets to do too much damage to them. This is an ME 109 -uh on the ground -uh, not at an airfield. He probably had to make an emergency landing. This supply train is burning pretty good. Another German vehicle. Another truck trying to hide in the trees. Note the broad pattern of the 850 caliber guns. This trucks on fire. Another truck. We hit something explosive on this dive-bombing mission. Less than half of my combat film turned out good enough to transfer to video because of bad underexposure. (Pause in Narration) GK: This is George Krumme again, we' ; ve come to the end of the commentary by Bob Ebee, but for those of us interested on Quine Brown and the Bristow connection here are some additional comments. Quince was born in 1917, he graduated from Bristow High school and attended Bristow Junior College and Oklahoma A & ; M college briefly, before earning his air-core wings at Kelly Field on April 25th, 1941, 7 months before the beginning of World War II. He severed as a flight instructor at Randolph, Kelly, and Majors airfields in Texas and taught a year at the Enid army flying school. He then applied for operations and after advanced training at Dale Mayberry field in Florida in April of 1943 he joined the 78th fighter group at the Duxford airbase, south of London England. The plane the group used was a republic P-47 thunderbolt, a heavy fighter with unusual four-bladed propellers. The P-47 were excellent strafing fighters because they could take considerable punishment and still return home. The word strafe was coined by the Germans from their world war I slogan " ; Gott strafe England!" ; , that is God punish England. And the Thunderbolt could certainly punish, strafing with eight machine guns at up to 450 miles per hour at an altitude at times less than 100 feet above the ground. But piloting a fighter plane was dangerous, particularly while strafing. The 78th fighter group with a normal flying compliment of 36-48 planes lost 167 of its aircraft during two years of action and 93 of its pilots were killed. In this scene, you can see a pilot pull his plane up as he suddenly saw an electric line in his path. Watch carefully as he approaches the hanger and you may be able to see the wires. Quince' ; s crew chief told Rusty Brown that occasionally planes would come back with wire and tree branches stuck to the wing, on one occasion Quince even returned with bent propeller tips. At 27 Quince was one of the older pilots, but was renowned for his keen eyesight and his flying skills. He was officially credited with 12 and 1/3 air to air victories and with two planes destroyed on the ground. After a year of service in mid-1944, Quince came back to the States for a couple of months and led war bond drives across the nation. He returned to combat duty in August. Less than a month later on September 6th, 1944 while strafing a German airfield, Quince' ; s plane was struck by anti-aircraft fire. Unable to continue he parachuted and was seen to land safely, gather his parachute, and disappear into the woods. It was presumed that his name would soon appear on the prisoner of war list, but after several fruitless months, it was determined that he had apparently been turned over to civilians only to be executed by the local S.S representative, who, after the war was identified and tried for murder. Quince flew more than 130 combat missions and was awarded the Silver Star, the Distinguished Flying Cross with four Oak Leaf Clusters, the Air Medal with four Oak Leaf Clusters, and the French Croix de Guerre. Quince has been inducted into the Oklahoma Aviation and Space Hall of Fame and into the Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame. Moreover, the Quince L. Brown Parkway serves as the entry into the Vance Airbase in Enid, where Quince instructed air cadets for a year. Even though the war continued for eight months after he was killed, Quince remained the leading ace of his fighter group. When the war ended, Quince' ; s remains were eventually transferred to Bristow where he was buried with full military honors in the family burial plots. GK: I hope you' ; ve enjoyed this brief look backward in time. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0020-V_Brown_Quince.xml OHP-0020-V_Brown_Quince.xml
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Quince Brown, Bristow's WWII Fighter Ace
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OHP-0003-VBrown,Quince
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Debbie Blansett
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Todd Herman
Mary Herman
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5.4 April 9, 2021 OHP-2020-14 Todd and Mary Herman OHP-2020-14 0:00-2:09:56 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Todd Herman Mary Herman Debbie Blansett MP3 OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary 1:|81(6)|86(2)|113(3)|165(12)|211(7)|241(4)|270(2)|323(11)|363(8)|406(6)|424(9)|484(2)|521(3)|572(10)|599(15)|620(11)|640(7)|665(3)|693(2)|719(5)|763(14)|801(8)|836(2)|858(15)|893(11)|938(7)|974(4)|1000(17)|1055(9)|1106(3)|1121(2)|1157(9)|1170(11)|1204(4)|1217(9)|1229(1)|1267(9)|1297(6)|1335(8)|1379(5)|1413(11)|1455(4)|1486(7)|1503(14)|1543(10)|1579(5)|1597(9)|1628(7)|1691(2)|1749(8)|1776(8)|1808(9)|1854(7)|1879(13)|1910(3)|1935(3)|1961(14)|1986(5)|2012(11)|2025(14)|2043(2)|2076(13)|2097(8)|2110(5)|2146(12)|2177(2)|2187(13)|2202(15)|2234(2)|2275(16)|2296(2)|2308(2)|2337(12)|2369(11)|2404(13)|2440(5)|2478(2)|2509(7)|2555(2)|2596(5)|2637(8)|2669(13)|2713(11)|2754(5)|2770(8)|2788(12)|2829(14)|2867(17)|2899(13)|2941(7)|2961(9)|2992(16)|3002(9)|3020(8)|3038(5)|3065(4)|3105(5)|3123(15)|3152(2)|3182(2)|3200(1)|3222(3)|3256(12)|3277(16)|3292(13)|3314(3)|3356(13)|3375(8)|3394(1)|3444(4)|3482(6)|3496(5)|3524(4)|3535(9)|3555(8)|3556(12)|3632(9)|3672(1)|3691(2)|3760(7)|3795(6)|3844(14)|3881(8)|3898(11)|3927(5)|3952(6)|3996(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary2.mp3 Other audio 870 Family, Childhood, and Second First Grade DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I’m gonna have them say their names so you’ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I’m gonna lay this here and I’m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he’ll— DB: Okay, well let’s start with— MH: He’ll just— Atoka (Okla.) ; Benjamin Hill Herman ; Catholic ; Catholic Kindergarten ; Clinton ; Edison Elementary ; Fighter Pilot ; Germany ; Joe Fusco ; John F. Kennedy ; Judge ; Judge Herman ; Junior High Gym ; Justice of the Peace ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mainstreet ; Major Quince Brown ; Mildred Holcomb ; Mrs. Couch ; Mrs. Kelly ; Mrs. Styles ; Ms. Bath ; Ms. Dial ; Ms. Simms ; Parish Hall ; Sister Cowart Clinic ; Sister Melba ; The Clinic Building ; W.H Herman ; Washington School ; Word War Two ; World War II Childhood ; Early Life ; Elementary ; Family ; Family History ; School https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873384/william-henry-herman Judge Herman https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363700/quince-lucien-brown Major Quince Brown https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182268/mildred-w.-holcomb Mildred W. Holcomb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153638784/joseph-louis-fusco Joe Fusco 1486 Doc King, Mary Herman's Family and Bristow Main Street DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he’s gone a few minutes— MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I’m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I’m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I’m sure you’ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don’t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night— the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up— she said, “Okay, we just have to call Doc King.” And he came and he took a look at me and he said, “We need to flush out her system or she’s going to die.” And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine— DB: (Gasp) Cushing ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Grammar School ; Hughes ; Kemp's Drug ; Main Street ; Malaria ; Mary Hughes ; Pool Halls ; Prince's Theater ; Route 66 ; Searcy's Jewelry Store ; Theodore Abraham ; Tulsa ; Turpentine Bristow ; Childhood ; Family ; Hughes ; Main Street ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25974276/mary-elizabeth-hughes Mary Elizabeth Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363605/theodore-abraham Theodore Abraham 1828 Joe Ihle's Swimming Pool and Day Camp TH: And we had— we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma’am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was— it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers— MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: —I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something— DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was— Joe was— no he was the manager— DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word “Stupid, stupid, stupid!” Bristow Day Camp ; Burton Lincoln ; Day Camp ; French ; Joe Ihle ; Life Guard ; Margie Ihle ; Sapulpa ; Segregation ; Silver Plunge ; Softball ; Softball Field ; Spanish ; Swimming Pool Bristow Day Camp ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Joe Ihle ; Lifeguarding ; Summertime https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112573626/burton-john-lincoln Burton John Lincoln 1895 The Longest Losing Streak in Oklahoma DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I— MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really— MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were— they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that— TH: I didn’t play in every game. MH: —you’re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. Coach McCoy ; Football ; High School Football ; High School ; High School Football ; Sports 2189 Mood Hughes, Tom Slick and The Flu Pandemic MH: Well I— I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And— DB: They’re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they— he— his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after— He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870— I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don’t know and the Sanky— S-A-N-K-Y— was from some singer and so his official— he’d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Moody Sanky Hughes ; Oil Fields ; Pennsylvania ; Tom Slick Family ; Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Oil ; Oil Fields https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893843/moody-s.-hughes Moody S. Hughes 2409 Cal Woodworth, Cletus James, Basketball and Football TH: Oh well— DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a— the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games— DB: Oh wow! Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Cal Woodworth ; Cletus James ; College Football ; Football ; Norman ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma City Newspaper ; OU ; OU National Championship Team ; School Board ; State Championship ; State Class A Basketball Championship ; Sukovaty Feed Store ; University of Oklahoma Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Championship ; College Football ; Football ; High School ; OU ; Sports https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200860101/calvin-van_kirk-woodworth Cal Woodworth 2748 Rabbit Hunting, Four Day Buck Season and The Mills Ranch TH: Well yeah, that’s— that’s a different story. But anyway, that all— that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin’ and there weren’t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in— started in the 40’s but they really didn’t take off until the 50’s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it— after that they went to a four-day season, it’d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn’t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it’s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it’s three months. DB: But they didn’t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day— Baptist Church ; Beagle ; Buck Season ; Bus Blackburn ; Clayton Dial ; Clayton Dial Sr. ; Clyde Warner ; Court House ; Crossbows ; Drummond Hardware Store ; Drummond's ; Earl Ford ; Edna Mills ; Ernest Mills ; Ethan Mills ; Ford Hardware ; Hominy ; Hunting ; Indians ; Lake Thoroughbred ; Library Board Inc. ; Long Bows ; Lucy Mae Mills ; Mills Ranch ; Mineral Rights ; Missouri ; Mose LeForce ; Oil Wells ; Osage County ; Ranching ; Spavinaw Refuge ; Wanda Newton Bucks ; Hunting ; Oil ; Rabbits ; Ranching ; The Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410808/bus-blackburn Bus Blackburn https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873454/jesse-clyde-leforce Jesse Clyde LeForce https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141221581/clyde-warner Clyde Warner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26846902/earl-walter-ford Earl Walter Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Wanda Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330445/ernest-h.-mills Earnest Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182021/lucy-mae-dial Lucy Mae Mills Dial https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182009/clayton-elmo-dial Clayton Elmo Dial 2901 A Joe Ihle Story TH: So anyway, that’s the long story short that— that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let’s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn’t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let’s go forward to 1957 or ’58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they’re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn’t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn’t know what Bus did. They didn’t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. Beaver (Okla.) ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Bus Blackburn ; Football ; Football Coach ; Gun Boat ; Iwo Jima ; Joe Ihle ; Marine Corp. ; Navy ; World War II Football ; Navy ; World War II 3117 Mose LeForce, Drivers Ed, and Duck Hunting MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about— TH: (Chuckling) MH: —what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I’m sure? DB: It is Clyde’s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary’s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ‘coon huntin’? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he’s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That’s right. He was a— MH: Yes, he was a coach. Clyde LeForce ; Drivers Ed ; Ed Elias ; Football ; Hunting ; Jimmy Elias ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mose LeForce ; Rosemary LeForce ; School Drivers Ed ; Duck Hunting ; Football ; Mose LeForce ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/176139209/james-saab-elias James " ; Jamil" ; Elias https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/211791065/clyde-leforce Clyde LeForce 3264 The Gun Show and County Commissioner Scandal TH: Well I’ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I— we don’t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real— that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh— MH: Who was corrupt? Armory ; Bristow National Gun Show ; Caterpillar Dealer ; County Commissioner ; Federal Court ; Gun Show ; Jimmy Weaver ; Oklahoma City ; Quonset Huts ; Softball Field Bristow Gun Show ; County Commissioner ; Jimmy Weaver 3571 The Bill Mack Dairy Ranch and Championship Bird Dogs MH: Well I— he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather— DB: Yes. MH: —my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my— he named it after my dad . DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —that takes care of all the stray— do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly’s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. Beth Roberts ; Breeders Association ; Brenda Morris ; Championship Bird Dogs ; Dairy ; Doak ; Drilling Company ; Hughes ; Kellys ; Linda Trigalet ; Paul Morris ; Shaull Hughes ; The Bill Mack Dairy ; William Mack Hughes Bill Mack Dairy ; Championship Dogs ; Dog Breeding ; Drilling ; Hughes ; Ranch ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893840/william-mack-hughes William Mack Hughes 3863 Drilling Company and The Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or— MH: He decided that was during when things— the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don’t know. DB: What about your mom’s family? MH: My mom — my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby . Grandpa’s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather’s grandmother— grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never— she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you— a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not— they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn’t— DB: Yes. Arkansas ; Billie Hodge ; Cherokee ; Clell Long ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling Company ; Hodge ; Hodge Station ; Ida Fadely ; Oil Cans ; Reba Hodge Long ; RL Jones ; Route 66 ; Ruby Hodge ; Sand Creek ; School ; Texaco Station ; Tulsa ; Vic Hodge Bottling Plant ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling ; Drilling Company ; Hodge Station ; Hodges ; Hughes ; Longs ; Oil ; Route 66 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25970425/billie-darlene-hughes Billie Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528797/ruby-v-hodge Ruby Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528875/victor-w.-hodge Victor Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168803/charles-clell-long Charles Clell Long https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168837/reba-elizabeth-long Reba Hodge 4190 Condom Machine Quarters and Army MP Duties MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave— DB: (Chuckling) MH: —by me telling this story. But, grandpa— grandma would always go down— she would help him down there, you know. And she’d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men’s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so— TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That’s right. And so— I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don’t know. DB: But he— she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)— DB: That’s funny. Army ; Cunningham Chevrolet ; Hughes ; Japan ; MP ; Oklahoma State University ; OSU ; Polio ; TU ; Tulsa University ; Turnpike Amry ; College ; Huges ; Japan 4404 The Sugar Bowl MH: And I have— I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he— you know he really— you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he— daddy convinced Mose— DB: Clyde’s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to— it was New Orleans wasn’t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad— my grandfather evidently told Mose said, “You keep an eye on him don’t let him out of your sight.” ‘cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we’re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket— DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: —to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of— I can’t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad’s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde’s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can’t remember but— Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Hinting ; Mose LeForce ; New Orleans ; The Sugar Bowl ; TU Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Sugar Bowl ; Tulsa University 4785 The Carnegie Library Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ‘70’s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don’t you? DB: Where the administration building— MH: Yes. TH: That’s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries— DB: You don’t think she was still there like in ’81? TH: Oh, I can’t remember when— Bernice Oaks ; Bill Bursler ; Bill Shibley ; Carnegie Library ; City Clerk ; Civil War ; Dewey Decimal System ; Librarian ; Max Oaks ; Mrs. Armith ; Ms. Burnett Jackson ; Ms. Herman ; OSU ; Rita Oaks 5423 The Great Depression, Soup Kitchen, Roosevelt and the WPA TH: I have another story— DB: Okay. TH: —about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of— and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20’s or in the 30’s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. Ampitheater ; California ; Chicago ; Chief of Police ; Community Bank ; Dust Bowl ; Farmington, New Mexico ; Hoover ; Ice Plant ; Jim Tallent Sr. ; Judge Herman ; Levan Kelly ; R.L Jones ; Roger Collins ; Roosevelt ; Sam Blackburn ; Slick ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; World War II ; WPA President Roosevelt ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; The WPA N 35° 49.951 W 096° 24.181 17 Bristow Amphitheatre 5815 We'll Take that One and Tracy Kelly Won't Stop Crying MH: But you know, it’s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —the second. So they— and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad’s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home— I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, “Okay, she’s”— they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm— a ward, they called it. Dorcas Kelly ; Kansas City ; KU ; Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182368/dorcas-b.-kelly Dorcas B. Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96953333/oliver-tracy-kelly Oliver Tracy Kelly 5954 Everything is Always Connected to Something Else You know ‘cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it’s just— there’s so much that’s— all that history’s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it’s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story— MH: Mm-hmm. DB: —it’s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was— I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these— this couple— I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, “Well I grew up in Oklahoma” and the guy said, “Really, where?” and I said, “Oh, you’ve never heard of it.” He said, “Well try me.” And I said, “It’s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow.” And he said, “Bristow?” he said, “There’s—” he said, “I know something about Bristow.” He said, “There’s a real famous athlete from Bristow.” And I said, “Really?” Clyde LeForce ; Lawrence Kansas ; Theater Play 6376 $5 Fake ID, Northwestern Oklahoma State and Wishing to be a Play Boy DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want— DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven’t even scratched the surface ma’am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn’t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life— a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was— I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn’t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that’s another long story. DB: Where’d you go to school? Alva, Oklahoma ; Army ; Burton Lincoln ; Central State ; Duwayne Whited ; Edmond ; Football ; International Guard ; Judge Arthurs ; Levi McBride ; Marie Arthurs ; Northwest Oklahoma State ; Oklahoma City ; OU ; Schumacher Funeral Home ; Vietnam ; Winter Wheat https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171094/herbert-l.-arthurs Herbert L Arthurs https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171099/marie-arthurs Marie Stewart Arthurs 6507 Hunting Deer and Forgotten Tacos TH: Levi loves to hunt. I’ve corrupted him and I’ve corrupted his brother Michael . Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They’ve been taught how to shoot. They’ve all got nice guns and they’re my students. That’s what I call em’. They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I’m proud of em’. They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And— DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That’s my great nephews. Hunt ; Levi McBride ; Michael McBride ; Taxidermy 7063 Most Mischievous and Memories of Bristow TH: Anyway, that’s just part of my— that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn’t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That’s— how long you— how long have we been married? Let’s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. Chicago ; Coburgs ; Creek County Free Fair ; Judd Johns ; Kemp Drug ; Kirchner's ; Linda Trigalet ; Main Street ; Nursing Home ; Owasso ; San Antonio ; Teen Town ; Tulsa ; Virginia Johns ; Walamrt https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192278055/virginia-lee-johns Virginia Lee Johns 7223 Adlai Stevenson's Train Trip and Eleanor Roosevelts Amphitheater Dedication TH: —to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That’s how everybody traveled back then— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: —was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker— they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur’s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a— this was all Democratic country back then. Adlai Stevenson ; Democrat ; Eisenhower ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Frisco Railroad ; Illinois ; Judge Arthurs ; Kelly's ; Republican ; WPA 7635 Influential People in Bristow MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ‘30’s, ‘40’s, late ‘20’s, there was a lot— there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It’s how all of these beautiful churches got built and— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian— MH: The Methodist. TH: — the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are— TH: Boy I tell you what you should— what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. Alaska ; Betty Kelly ; Brick Kirchner ; Canada ; Dokes ; Eddie Bishop ; George Krumme ; Independence Kansas ; Levan Kelly ; Maree Kirchner ; McMillian ; Ms. Gurley ; Roger Collins ; Tom Miller ; Tracy Kelly ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204299/ralph-r_-kirchner Ralph Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182396/maree-b.-kirchner Maree Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22443036/thomas-j.-miller Thomas J. Miller https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25138458/edward-l-bishop Eddie Bishop In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Interviewer: Todd (TH) and Mary Herman (MH) Interviewee: Debbie Blansett (DB) Other Persons: Date of Interview: April 09, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family' ; s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they' ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I' ; m gonna have them say their names so you' ; ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I' ; m gonna lay this here and I' ; m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he' ; ll-- DB: Okay, well let' ; s start with-- MH: He' ; ll just-- DB: --your early life. Like-- TH: Alright. DB: --when were you born and all that stuff? TH: Alright, I was born in November of 1939 at the Sisler Clinic. It was actually the Sisler- Cowart Clinic. C-O-W-A-R-T. On West Eighth street in Bristow. My family came to Bristow on my dad' ; s side in about 1911 and my father was born here in 1912. DB: Oh. TH: My mother came to Bristow with her dad in 1923 from Atoka, Oklahoma. She was born in Atoka. And my grandfather-- her father had a jewelry store and my paternal grandfather wound up being-- he was a veterinarian and he wound up being the Chief of Police-- DB: Hmm. TH: And from there he was the Justice of the Peace. DB: Here in Bristow? TH: In Bristow. He was known as Judge Herman. MH: What was his name? TH: W.H. Herman his tombstone in the Bristow City Cemetery says Judge Herman. DB: Oh. TH: That' ; s how he was known. And you have to understand the Oklahoma Court system from statehood, they had Justice of the Peace everywhere and they handled the small insurrection-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The small criminal cases. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Which we' ; d classify now as a misdemeanor. DB: And the Justice of the Peace did that? TH: The JP did it. You-- if you got a ticket for killing too many quail-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and game warden wrote you a ticket, you took it to the JP. That' ; s what they were called-- the Justice of the Peace. DB: Hmm. See I always associate that with people-- marry people-- MH: Right. DB: I didn' ; t know that they were-- TH: Oh no, they did-- they did-- they had a lot of-- they kept the peace is what they did. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s what it was for. MH: What was his name Todd, even though he was a judge. TH: W.H. Herman and I-- MH: What did the W and the H stand for? TH: I have no idea. MH: (Laughter) TH: William? I think the middle name was Hill. And the reason I say that is my uncle B.H. Herman was Benjamin Hill Herman. DB: Maybe it was a mother' ; s maiden name or-- TH: Could be, I have no idea. DB: -- or some family name from somewhere. TH: Somebody' ; s done some research and I remember reading it, but I can' ; t remember exactly what it says. DB: How many brothers and sisters? TH: My mother was an only child. My dad had two brothers and a sister. MH: See Tommy Herman-- they' ; re cousins. DB: Oh uh-huh. TH: Yes. Listen, I don' ; t wanna dominate this thing-- MH: No. DB: No. MH: Go right ahead, keep on talking. TH: I could just talk and talk and talk. DB: Well just talk and talk and talk. TH: (Laughter) Okay. DB: So-- TH: Anyway, I was born there-- MH: Maybe she wants to hear about something specific. DB: No, I want to just-- MH: Okay. DB: hear your stories. You were born in the Sissler Clinic (ph). TH: Yes, and I was-- DB: Which is-- TH: -- raised in Bristow on the west side. I remember living in a little house on Elm Street between Seventh and Eighth Street. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The house is still there. There were three little frame homes and we lived-- I remember living in that house. DB: So you would' ; ve been grade school age? TH: I wasn' ; t grade school age. I wound up-- my mother put me in the Catholic Kindergarten. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Well tell her the story behind that. That' ; s a cute story. TH: My grandfather was-- Oklahoma was very anti-Catholic. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: An example, in 1960 John F. Kennedy lost Oklahoma by 100,000 votes and he was a Democrat. DB: Oh my. TH: He lost because he was a Catholic. DB: I-- TH: Yeah. DB: I didn' ; t know that. TH: It was-- it was a really anti-- anti-Catholic here. When I went to-- my grandfather did not want my mother to put me in the Catholic Kindergarten because they had nuns. DB: Hmm. For the teachers? TH: Yes, Sister Melba (ph) I can still remember the nuns name and it was discipline. If you got-- did something wrong she' ; d whack you with a ruler on the back of your hand. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember that and I cried ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school, and mother finally took me up there and enrolled me. MH: You said you would watch the kids. TH: I would watch ' ; em all go to school and I' ; d sit out there-- out on the front porch and cry ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school. I was five years old, whatever I was. And down the street the Brown' ; s lived down the street and there was a dog down there, his name was Major-- in a pen. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Major was the dog of Major Quince Brown, who was a fighter pilot in World War II. DB: Oh. TH: And got shot down in Germany and this was his dog and his squadron made-- chipped in and shipped the dog home to his parents. DB: Oh, how wonderful! TH: I remember going down there. DB: Huh. TH: And that' ; s some of my memories from-- DB: So the children-- so whenever you went to kindergarten at the Catholic School, there wasn' ; t a kindergarten like in the-- TH: No. DB: -- public school. TH: No, public school started-- DB: So if you wanted to go to school-- TH: --started in first grade. DB: --you had to go to the Catholic Kindergarten. TH: Yes. DB: Alright. TH: That' ; s the only kindergarten there was. MH: There was no-- DB: You must really wanted to go to school? TH: I wanted to be with all those kids. DB: (Laughter) MH: There was no preschool. The only thing we had-- of course I' ; m ten years younger than he is. But by the time I was that age-- three, four years old, there was a program-- Mrs. Couch (ph) who lived on the east side of town-- DB: Mm-hmm MH: -- and I think it was maybe Seventh-- Six or Seventh Street, East. She had Mrs. Couch' ; s (ph) play school, that' ; s what it was called. And so that' ; s where we-- a lot of us went when we were three, four, five years old. DB: Kinda like what Ms. Dial' ; s (ph)-- MH: Yes. DB: -- turned into-- MH: Yes. DB: -- later on. MH: Yes. So I have no idea when kindergarten actually started in Bristow. But there was no Kindergarten because we went from Mrs. Couch (ph) to first grade. DB: M-kay. MH: And I don' ; t think Mrs. Couch (ph)-- was Ms. Couch (ph) around when you were-- TH: No. MH: Okay. TH: No there' ; s no-- nobody had a school. This was-- this was it. The Catholic-- DB: Where was the Catholic school? TH: Right where the Parish Hall is now at the Catholic Church. The nun' ; s lived there. There was a little house that they lived in. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was Protestant kids going to school with the Catholic kids. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And they kid' ; s had school there. They went up through sixth grade ; didn' ; t they, Todd? TH: Yeah, they went all the way through the sixth grade at the Catholic School and then they went to public school. DB: But you just went there in kindergarten-- TH: Kindergarten-- DB: -- then went to public school. TH: Yes. And then when I went to public school at Edison. DB: And where was Edison then? TH: Right there on Main Street where there' ; s a school there now. What' ; s it called? DB: Well where Edison is now? MH: Yes. TH: Is that Edison? DB: But it was an older-- it wasn' ; t-- TH: Oh yeah. It was an old brick building. MH: It wasn' ; t that building. TH: It' ; s been torn down and rebuilt. DB: Okay. TH: Yeah that' ; s where I went to first grade. DB: So Edison' ; s always been right there in the same location pretty much? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yes. DB: M-kay. Anything else from those early years-- MH: Tell her about your first grade. How it--how you failed-- what happened to you in first grade? TH: Oh, I failed the first grade. (Laughter) TH: And they handed out the report cards at the end of school. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; m walking home. My parents had moved this time on West Ninth Street and I' ; m walking home from school and this kid that I don' ; t know who he was. He looked at it and he says " ; You failed, and your gonna have to take first grade over again." ; and I went home crying. I was just absolutely devastated and you know, they hadn' ; t told me this. Mother (inaudible) and here I have the report card that said I was gonna be held back. MH: Tell her why. TH: Well, I don' ; t know why I guess-- MH: You said it was ' ; cause you were sickly. TH: I was a sickly young-- MH: That you missed a lot of school. TH: Yeah, I missed a lot of school. DB: Oh. TH: I was a sickly child. So I got held back a year and it just devastated me. I remember coming home crying. I remember they were so--. I remember hitting that porch and just bawling and squalling and-- DB: Oh my. TH: I was so upset. Mother didn' ; t exactly handle it right. MH: (Laughter) no. DB: Just-- what did-- MH: Didn' ; t tell him. They didn' ; t tell him. DB: Oh. TH: Yeah. MH: You don' ; t do that to a child (Laughter). TH: So-- DB: So you did first grade twice. TH: I did the first grade twice. DB: And you weren' ; t as sick the second time? TH: No. My first year-- the ladies name, I can' ; t remember her name. The second first grade was Mrs. Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Mildred Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I remember all my teachers all through the Edison school years. DB: Well that' ; s something. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah, I can remember every one of them. DB: So Mrs. Holcomb was your second first grade teacher. MH: (Laughter) TH: Yes, and then-- DB: And second grade was? TH: Ms. Bath (ph). DB: Ms. Bath (ph). TH: She was a lady-- she and her husband were murdered out north of Bristow. DB: I remember that name. TH: Okay the second-- DB: Third grade? TH: Third grade was Ms. Simms (ph). DB: Ms. Simms (ph)? TH: And the fourth grade was Mrs. Kelly (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And who later moved to Clinton. And the fifth grade I can' ; t remember. I think it was Mrs. Styles (ph). DB: Mm-hmm TH: Or Mrs. Styles (ph) maybe could' ; ve been the sixth grade. Anyway, there' ; s one in there I can' ; t remember exactly-- MH: She taught math when I was in junior high. Styles (ph) did. TH: Okay then, when I went to junior high is when you didn' ; t have a homeroom. You passed around. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Seventh, eighth and ninth grade. DB: And where was the junior high? MH: Right there. DB: Like where the auditorium used to be? TH: Yes. That was the junior high-- that was a-- MH: Because the-- because the junior high building had an auditorium. DB: It was all right there. There was Edison and the Junior High and the High School. MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: All right there in that-- MH: Yes. DB: -- one little block area. TH: And then there was another brick building there, the Clinic building they called it. Its where the band-- MH: Band building. TH: -- band building was. MH: It' ; s where Joe Fusco was. TH: Yes. DB: Oh. MH: And then I don' ; t know about-- see we had LeForce Fieldhouse across the street. DB: Yes. MH: And that' ; s where we would have gym classes and that' ; s where we would do assemblies and stuff when I was in school. That' ; s what you probably did too-- DB: But there was a gym behind the junior high also. TH: Junior High Gym. MH: But we didn' ; t-- when we were in high school, we went to across the street. DB: Yes. MH: I remember the Junior High gym when I was in junior high but then I don' ; t know what happened to it (Chuckling) after that. TH: Tore it down. MH: That' ; s right. DB: No, it' ; s part of the building. TH: Hmm? MH: I mean we would go-- we would have like dances there. We had like the Junior High Dance at one point I think-- DB: In the gym? MH: Yeah. DB: We had junior high dances in Leforce Fieldhouse whenever I was-- MH: Yeah. DB: --teaching at the-- while it was not the high school then it was the junior high. TH: Excuse me. DB: You' ; re fine. MH: Right, so yeah. But its, yeah. It' ; s all-- it was all right there. It was easy. Of course Washington was on the other side. DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he' ; s gone a few minutes-- MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I' ; m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I' ; m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don' ; t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night-- the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up-- she said, " ; Okay, we just have to call Doc King." ; And he came and he took a look at me and he said, " ; We need to flush out her system or she' ; s going to die." ; And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine-- DB: (Gasp) MH: --and to take a spoon and dip it down into the turpentine just to kind of coat the spoon and then put it in the bottle because she wasn' ; t nursing me. For whatever reason, I was on a bottle. So he said put that down in the bottle with the milk and my mother evidently said, " ; I can' ; t do that, I' ; ll kill her." ; And he said " ; This will give her diarrhea" ; or whatever it was and he said, " ; If we don' ; t do it, she' ; s not gonna live." ; So, mother did that and sure enough, and so the story always makes me a little sad. It was great joy to my mother that he came to my wedding-- DB: (Gasp) Oh my goodness! MH: She always used to talk about that. DB: It gives me chills. (Chuckling) MH: Yeah and she-- because she credited him-- she always credited him with saving my life. DB: Oh, that' ; s amazing. MH: And I-- DB: After the schmancy doctors in Tulsa didn' ; t have anything. MH: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. DB: And he came to your home and visited-- MH: Oh for sure! Yeah and there' ; s great-- there' ; s great stories about Doc King. I don' ; t know how many people that are alive now actually remember-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know. DB: His name hasn' ; t come up often. MH: Isn' ; t that interesting? TH: My father talked about Doc king. My dad had Malaria when he was a young person and Doc King got him through it. DB: That' ; s amazing. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was always talking about Doc King. MH: But I was-- I was married in ' ; 72 in the old Methodist church-- the original one. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And there' ; s a picture or somewhere of him coming into the church. And he had to have people helping him. And then when the Historical Society Newsletter that came out just recently, there was an article about him in there and I read when he died and it wasn' ; t too long-- maybe a year or two after I had gotten married. And he was already not-- DB: He was holding on to come-- (Laughter) MH: Not-- I don' ; t think so. But he was like already ninety-something. You know? DB: That' ; s pretty amazing. MH: Yeah. Yeah, I mean-- you know, yeah, it' ; s a pretty cool story I think. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, Todd go ahead I' ; ll stop now. TH: (Chuckling) I don' ; t know-- I don' ; t know where we were. DB: Let' ; s see, so we had-- we were talking about the gyms-- TH: Alright. DB: --any other things from elementary time or-- TH: Oh! DB: --grammar school time-- TH: Well, a lot of the kids that I went to school with in grade school I wound up going all twelve years with them. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And graduated from high school with them and there' ; s three or four of ' ; em that I see on a regular basis today that are still alive. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And we are still-- were still, ya know not close friends but we' ; re-- we know each other. DB: And what class did you graduate in? TH: 1958. DB: 1958. TH: But my grandfather-- I have to tell this story. This is the greatest-- this is the greatest story that you' ; re ever gonna hear. DB: Okay, I can' ; t wait. TH: When I was five or six years old, I don' ; t know how old I was. My grandfather had the jewelry store on Main Street in Bristow. It was right across the street from the Prince' ; s theatre and where Kemp' ; s Drug Store is today. MH: Tell her the name of the store. TH: Searcy' ; s Jewelry Store. Well, I have a friend, I' ; m still his friend. He' ; s a retired attorney in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: His name is Stewart Arthurs (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: We found two stool plungers in the back of my grandfather' ; s jewelry store. We decide to have a sword fight, well we know we can' ; t have a sword fight in that store. MH: Did you tell her how old you were at the time? TH: I was five or six-- DB: Yeah, he-- TH: --years old, I can' ; t-- MH: Okay. TH: --remember how old I was, (Chuckling) maybe four, five, six. So we snuck those stool plungers out and we' ; re out there on the sidewalk on the street having a sword fight with stool plungers. DB: (Laughter) TH: Now at this time, Main Street in Bristow was Route 66. This was before the turnpike. The turnpike wasn' ; t completed until 1953. This would' ; ve been in 1945, ' ; 46 something like that. Bristow had a beat cop on Main Street named Theodore Abraham. DB: Uh-huh. TH: That walked up and down Main Street ' ; cause you had seven or eight beer joints on Main Street and you had to-- and a couple of pool halls. You had to have somebody maintaining peace down there. DB: And traffic. TH: Theodore did it. DB: Lots of traffic. TH: Lots of traffic. Lots of traffic. We' ; re out there having a sword fight. Well Theodore Abraham he' ; s ornery as can be anyway. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Would you believe, he stopped the traffic on main street and Stewart (ph) and I are out there having this sword fight and we were just little kids. DB: And he stopped the traffic. TH: He stopped traffic. He walked out there in the middle of the street and stopped traffic in both directions so we could have this sword fight. DB: Oh my! MH: (Laughter) TH: My mother comes out there and my grandfather and they see what' ; s going on. Oh my goodness, we got screamed and hollered at and I remember we got taken to the back room and my grandfather paddled both of us. DB: Oh my. (Laughter) TH: And mother called Stewarts (ph) mother and she said we' ; ll paddle him when gets home. (Laughter) TH: I told my friend, Stewart (ph)-- I talk to him about once a month-- he' ; s had a stroke and his health is not real good. So I keep checking on him over at Cushing. And I told him that there was gonna be an interview for this oral history thing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He said, " ; Be sure and tell ' ; em about the sword fight" ; (Laughter) DB: Well I' ; m glad you told that-- TH: Oh I-- DB: --that is pretty something. TH: Yes. That' ; s-- that was a good deal. DB: That is something. TH: But Bristow was a real good place to grow up. Because I had the run of the whole town. In junior high I had a bicycle, I could go anywhere. I' ; d go out in the country. I had a BB gun. I would shoot sparrows off the wires. I knew what I could do and couldn' ; t do. The policeman knew who I was. If I knew if I got out of line, I was in trouble. It' ; s like everybody looked after everybody. MH: That' ; s true. DB: Mm-hmm TH: It was-- it was that way. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: You didn' ; t-- you know, you said, yes sir and no sir. You were just happy, happy, happy. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Would that be true Mary D.? MH: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. I remember driving by this house on my bicycle going to the Bristow swimming pool. ' ; Cause I' ; d always liked to drive up Sixth Street because it was paved with concrete. It wasn' ; t driving on the bricks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I always looked at this house and golly I wonder who lives in that big house now. DB: (Chuckling) TH: I never saw anybody outside, so-- DB: Didn' ; t know you' ; d end up living in it one day? TH: I sure didn' ; t. Well I didn' ; t know her. DB: Mm-hmm. (Laughter) TH: So that was-- that was a good story right there. DB: That was a good story. TH: And we had-- we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was-- it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers-- MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: --I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something-- DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was-- Joe was-- no he was the manager-- DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word " ; Stupid, stupid, stupid!" ; (Laughter) DB: I can still hear that. TH: Oh, I can-- I can see-- DB: I think he still says that! TH: I can see Joe telling that and this is when we still had segregation. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and I remember the blacks coming out there wanting to go swimming and not being able to go. Getting turned back. DB: Hmm. TH: And I can remember Joe Ihle teaching swimming lessons to these women that came from Sapulpa. About ten or twelve of ' ; em and Joe was a good looking man and he' ; d always wait until those women got out there and then here would come ole Joe and he' ; s struttin' ; down through there. (Laughter) TH: The other lifeguard was the guy named Burton Lincoln that summer. We called him Abe Lincoln. He was a super smart man, had a double major in college-- DB: Hmm. TH: --foreign languages of English and no of Spanish and French. DB: Wow. TH: Anyway we' ; d sit over there and wondering. And old Abe said, " ; I wonder which one he' ; s gonna go home with this afternoon" ; . (Laughter) TH: And we' ; d say that about ole Joe and we never teased Joe. Joe was real sensitive. You couldn' ; t tease Joe very much. But he' ; d teach those ladies swimming and open that swimming pool up at two o' ; clock in the afternoon. And here' ; d come all these kids. MH: That' ; s late. You didn' ; t open until two? TH: Opened at two. DB: And so the ladies would come do their swimming lessons before-- TH: At one o' ; clock, yes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. Well it would take us until after they' ; d had that-- and they started this Day Camp thing-- DB: Yes. MH: Right. TH: And they' ; d all come to the swimming pool at eleven and we' ; d have to go out there in the morning and clean the pool. We had to-- the deep end of the pool didn' ; t have much circulation and the bottom would get dirty and we had an underwater breathing device. DB: Uh-huh. TH: With a ninety-pound weight and we' ; d vacuum the deep water. DB: So Day Camp-- you were the life guard-- TH: No, we didn' ; t have anything to do with the Day Camp. DB: Oh. TH: We were gone by eleven and here came the Day Camp to swim. And then after they' ; d get through we' ; d have to go clean up everything where they were swimming. DB: So you were about a junior or a senior in high school? TH: I was a-- I did it between my junior and senior year. And I did it after my senior year. I did it for two summers. DB: Two summers. TH: It was the best job in Bristow. They paid me forty dollars a week. A dollar an hour for labor in the morning and we got to split the proceeds from the rental of the swim fins and the goggles and that kind of stuff. And Joe got the towels and the swimsuits that they rented. DB: Hmm. MH: They rented swim suits? TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And towels? TH: Yeah. Oh we had tourists come through and not have a swimsuit and want to go swimming. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, Joe would do that and then his wife' ; s name was Margie (ph). She' ; d take that stuff home and wash it. DB: Wow. TH: Yeah, I was making-- I was making money. DB: You were. TH: That was the best job. You could do that or haul hay for two cents a bale. DB: And a lot hotter to haul hay than it is to lifeguard. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Oh, that was the best job in town. DB: And a lot harder work. TH: All these little ole girls would show up to come visit grandma for the summer and they' ; d take them to the swimming pool. DB: Come to the pool. TH: Yeah. DB: Ah, yes. I kinda have to tell on my husband. He still-- he still likes to drive by the swimming pool in the summer, but he said " ; It' ; s just not the same as it used to be." ; MH: Same. (Laughter) TH: Well that was-- DB: Just not the same. MH: No. TH: Well that was-- that was built by an Indian. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And he gave it to the city. That' ; s how the city wound up-- the city didn' ; t build that pool. This Indian man did-- DB: The original-- the first pool. TH: First pool and it held 800,000 gallons of water. DB: That' ; s-- TH: It was huge! It was a hundred-feet long-- two-hundred feet long and a hundred-feet wide. Had three diving boards. DB: Mm-mm-mm. TH: It was-- and it was a beautiful, beautiful pool. DB: Now I' ; ve heard it-- it had a name? MH: Silver Plunge. TH: Silver Plunge. DB: The Silver Plunge. Hmm. Well maybe one day we' ; ll have-- MH: Yeah, now that that passed-- DB: Something-- MH: Hopefully-- DB: --that our kids can have in the future. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: We' ; ll keep our fingers crossed. Okay, so we' ; ve made it through high school and lifeguarding. TH: (Chuckling) Yeah! DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I-- MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really-- MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were-- they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that-- TH: I didn' ; t play in every game. MH: --you' ; re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. TH: But he left and he went to-- went out west somewhere. Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And-- DB: They' ; re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they-- he-- his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after-- He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870-- I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don' ; t know and the Sanky-- S-A-N-K-Y-- was from some singer and so his official-- he' ; d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had a third grade education and he loved-- he worked in the oil fields in Pennsylvania. He was one of six or seven children and he went to work as a young boy working in the oil fields. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Back east, and then he came to Oklahoma as he was a teenager to work in the oil field. And that' ; s how it all started. DB: Now did his whole family move to Oklahoma or just he came-- MH: Eventually, some of them moved. But he--he was the first one. DB: And he was a young man then? MH: Teenager. DB: A teenager? MH: Mm-hmm. And came and started working in the oilfields and then just kind of worked his way up. He and Tom Slick (ph) you' ; ve heard the name Tom Slick (ph)? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: He and Tom Slick (ph) were partners at one time and I' ; ve been told everything they did was by a handshake. They never had anything written down. DB: Wow. MH: And that' ; s when-- after his partnership with Tom Slick (ph) is when he started his own company and it changed names. It was called various things and I will-- I will get-- I' ; ve got a lot of this written down and I can give you the exact names, but that' ; s how that all started. And he was in Drumright for a while and then that' ; s when he met my grandmother and I think-- I think there' ; s a family story there that was never quite told. Because of the, you know-- the difference in their ages and how they ended up. She worked for him. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And was a secretary, and then they ended up moving here and as a wedding present to her he built this house. DB: And how many years were there between them? MH: Twenty? Twenty or twenty-one years' ; difference in age. DB: Oh wow. MH: And he had been married before and had had a child and she had died as a young girl. Either of pneumonia or the flu. When was the flu pandemic? TH: 1919, 19-- MH: That might' ; ve been, you know it' ; s all kind of fuzzy because I never knew him. He died before I was born. DB: Hmm. MH: So. DB: But this house was a wedding gift that he had built for her? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Wow. MH: They, they-- DB: And all on a third grade education? MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: Mm-hmm. And he-- it was started in ' ; 23 and completed in ' ; 24 and so they had lived here for three years before they adopted my dad. He was born in ' ; 27. So, yeah. Okay Todd you go on. TH: Oh well-- DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a-- the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games-- DB: Oh wow! TH: -- this is off a team that hadn' ; t-- had this losing streak. That' ; s a true story about the losing streak. That was in the Oklahoma City Newspaper. DB: Hmm. MH: (Laughter) TH: Uhh-- MH: It must be true then if it was (Chuckling)-- TH: Twenty-six straight games. DB: Wow. TH: This would' ; ve been in the 50' ; s. Yeah-- MH: Well how many games did you win your senior year? TH: I think we won eleven and we got to the semi-finals and got beat and we thought we could win it all but we didn' ; t. We ran on to a team called Ada (Chuckling). DB: (Laughter) TH: Ada beat everybody. DB: Yeah. TH: Anyway-- DB: And they came back a few years later and were pretty tough too. TH: Oh yes. DB: (Laughter) TH: Then we had a basketball coach who was-- he looked like he was about-- he was a student, he looked so young. His name was Cletus James (ph), and these two coaches just died within the last year-- year and a half. DB: Oh really! TH: Yeah, they really had an influence on a lot of young men. And long story short they won the State Class A Foot-- Basketball Championship. So in time-- DB: So Bristow was-- TH: --Bristow High School men have ever won a state championship. DB: Was in-- TH: 1958. DB: 1958. MH: Your senior year. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And you were on the basketball team? TH: No, I didn' ; t play my senior year-- DB: Oh. TH: --because I wanted a job to make money and I worked in the Sukovaty feed store. DB: I' ; ve heard that name. TH: And delivered-- we delivered-- worked after school and on Saturdays delivering feed, because we had a lot of dairies back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And this-- this was before cattle cubes. I remember the first sack of cattle cubes I saw, but they had all this dairy feed and I remember it was all in hundred pound sacks. DB: (Chuckling) TH: (Chuckling) And you had to be a stud duck to pick up a hundred-pound sack on your shoulder and carry it. DB: All day long! TH: Well yeah. You' ; d take twenty of ' ; em on a back of a pick-up truck, that' ; s two-thousand pounds. And take them out to a dairy. But there were a lot of dairies in this area. So I didn' ; t-- I didn' ; t play. I' ; m sorry I didn' ; t. MH: Well you' ; ve also said, Todd you weren' ; t very good. TH: Well I-- Let me, let me say this I thought I was a lot better than I really was. (Laughter) TH: But we had some good athletes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Some good kids and you had to have to win all those-- all those-- I think they only lost two games my senior year. MH: And you played college football. TH: Well yeah, that' ; s-- that' ; s a different story. But anyway, that all-- that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin' ; and there weren' ; t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in-- started in the 40' ; s but they really didn' ; t take off until the 50' ; s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it-- after that they went to a four-day season, it' ; d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn' ; t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it' ; s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it' ; s three months. DB: But they didn' ; t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day-- DB: Whatever you had to kill ' ; em with. TH: One day you had to shoot ' ; em with a shotgun-- DB: Oh. TH: --and a rifle slug. DB: No bow or anything like-- TH: No, they didn' ; t have any bow season back then. I remember the first bow season was at Spavinaw Refuge. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that was about that time. You couldn' ; t even buy a bow and arrow anywhere hardly. If you wanted to buy one, you had to buy it out of a catalog. And they didn' ; t have these fancy bows like they-- DB: Like they do now. TH: --just long bows-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anyway, that was-- that was all the hunting and I always did that and then-- then my dad and three other guys had permission to hunt on the Mills Ranch and there was a big pond down there. The pond is still there and they had a duck blind on that pond. I remember going down there and going duck hunting, freezing to death and-- DB: Where' ; s the Mills-- TH: Uh-- DB: Is it-- TH: That was southeast of Bristow. DB: --south of town-- TH: Yeah. Ethan Mills came here before statehood-- MH: Explain to her who-- what the connection on down the line is to Ethan Mills, because I don' ; t know if she' ; s talked to anybody that would' ; ve explained that. DB: No. TH: Okay. Ethan Mills came here before statehood. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Missouri and he had a ranch. There' ; s a lot of grass land south and east of Bristow. As you go that way from Bristow there' ; s a lot of open ground. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It doesn' ; t have this cross timber-- this scrub oak on it. And he had that and they drilled wells on him and he was wealthy. And he would let my dad and three other men, Bus Blackburn, Mose LeForce and Clyde Warner hunt ducks down there on this big lake. To the north there was another big lake that he had built called Thoroughbred and he' ; d let Mr.-- Mr. Earl Ford and his friends hunt on it. MH: Earl Ford was Wanda Newton' ; s dad. DB: Oh okay. TH: At Ford Hardware. DB: Okay. TH: Okay. Anyway, I remember doing all that down there. Well Ethan Mills had two children and Ernest Mills who had the ranch over south of Edna (ph) and then Lucy Mae, who was an old maid. She wound up marrying Mr. Clayton Dial. DB: Oh! TH: And I believe if-- there' ; s a lot of money that' ; s been given away, when she passed away. DB: Yes. TH: I believe the Baptist Church got old. MH: And that' ; s what started the Library Board Inc. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was money from that and I think-- where else did she leave her money? TH: I think the Baptist Church got a bunch of it and I believe the elevator in the Baptist church was built for her. DB: And she was a Mills? TH: She was a Mills, but she married Clayton Dial Sr. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Who committed suicide. DB: And the Ethan Mills made his money from old oil wells-- TH: Ranching. Ranching-- DB: Oh, from ranching. TH: --he had white face cattle. MH: But they all-- so you just-- you just said that they drilled on his land. TH: Yeah there' ; s-- there' ; s still wells out there-- DB: So he got mineral rights, he got part of that. TH: Yes. Yes. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And raised-- TH: He borrowed from the Indians. See the Indians had no sense of ownership of surface acres. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they-- they' ; d get a deed to it and what they-- they' ; d take it and sell it. Until the Drummond' ; s (ph) got their land in Osage County. DB: Hmm. TH: Come borrow money from the Drummond Hardware Store in Hominy. Signed a quick claim deed. They didn' ; t come pay by pay day, they' ; d go file the deed at the court house and we own the surface. DB: There you go. TH: So anyway, that' ; s the long story short that-- that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let' ; s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn' ; t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let' ; s go forward to 1957 or ' ; 58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they' ; re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn' ; t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn' ; t know what Bus did. They didn' ; t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Those two guys get to talking. Joe Ihle is talking on a radio to the gun boat directing fire. Guess who he' ; s talking to? DB: (Chuckling) who? TH: He' ; s talking to Bus Blackburn. DB: That is crazy. MH: Isn' ; t that crazy? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: I' ; m sure you didn' ; t hear that story from Joe? DB: No. No. MH: (Chuckling) No. DB: He won' ; t talk about any of those days, so I' ; m glad that you shared that because they' ; d be lost anyway-- otherwise. TH: Well, I go to the bank to see Joe Ihle the last week of February every year. DB: Mm-hmm. Yep. You know he' ; s still-- he' ; s still going in there. Brent says he goes in about once a week. TH: I' ; ll, I' ; ll-- DB: Checks on his stuff. TH: I' ; ll tear up telling this story, but I go in and shake his hand to say thanks coach. MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about-- TH: (Chuckling) MH: --what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I' ; m sure? DB: It is Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary' ; s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ' ; coon huntin' ; ? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he' ; s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That' ; s right. He was a-- MH: Yes, he was a coach. DB: Okay. MH: Yes. DB: Okay. TH: He was the football coach here for years. MH: Yes. DB: Okay, then I' ; ve got it. I' ; ve got the right person. TH: Have you ever been to Jamil' ; s in Tulsa? DB: I have. TH: Have you seen the picture on the wall of the football game-- MH: She' ; s probably been to the new one not the old one, Todd. DB: No, I went to the old one for prom. (Laughter) TH: Alright. MH: Uh-huh. DB: And I haven' ; t been back! (Laughter) DB: I mean it was wonderful but-- MH: Yeah. (Chuckling) DB: --it was like 1977-- MH: Right. DB: --or ' ; 78-- TH: There was a picture on a football on the -- DB: On the wall. TH: --of the Bristow football team in 1932 or ' ; 31, ' ; 32. DB: And he' ; s on that picture. TH: My dad was in it. Jimmy Elias, which is Jamil-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: --was on it. Ed Elias (ph), which was Eddie' ; s Steakhouse was on it. All their pictures there. They all got their letter sweater on. DB: I wonder if they moved it-- TH: It' ; s still on that-- I think it' ; s still in the new one. DB: --to the new place. MH: I don' ; t know. DB: That' ; d be worth the trip just to see if it' ; s-- MH: Uh-huh TH: Go up there-- DB: still up there. TH: Go up there and ask for Bernard say, " ; Is your daddy' ; s picture and football team still on the wall?" ; Cause I think-- DB: I heard stories, I need to see this picture. MH: Yeah. TH: Tell him you talked to Todd Herman. Yeah. DB: M-Kay. TH: Okay. Anyway, Mose and we' ; d go ' ; coon huntin' ; and my mother, " ; Oh my, when you gonna be home?" ; " ; Well we' ; ll be home by eleven o' ; clock." ; Well hell we wouldn' ; t come home until almost time the sun come up. (Laughter) TH: We' ; d be up to here with ' ; em. MH: Well didn' ; t you say that he would take you before school too? TH: Oh yeah! That' ; s another story. MH: (Chuckling) That' ; s what I was talking-- TH: Oh yeah! DB: And you made it to school? TH: No! I didn' ; t go to school, I' ; d go home and instead of knocking on the door, mother had a little swing out on the front porch. I' ; d lay down there and go to sleep. Mother would finally come out there and she' ; d-- " ; You come in the house!" ; . Boy I gotta tell ya, I forgot about that. Mose LeForce taught Drivers Ed. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: First class in the morning, he' ; d get some high school kid-- I was in the tenth grade, taking Drivers Ed. He' ; d get some high school kid to run his class and we' ; d go duck hunting. (Laughter) TH: Mose LeForce and my dad-- and they' ; d let me miss Drivers Ed. You know, it was a miss. And we' ; d go duck huntin' ; . They wanted me to go around and pick up the dead ducks after they shot ' ; em that' ; s the reason they wanted me to go. (Laughter) TH: Come home and I had-- oh I had-- I could not tell anybody that I had been duck hunting that morning. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: The school didn' ; t take up back then until nine o' ; clock. So the first hour it would be almost ten o' ; clock by the time we' ; d get back and-- DB: So you skipped Drivers Ed? TH: I-- yeah it was-- the coach, Mose would take me. My dad had-- you know, my dad let me go. Oh this was-- it was-- you know ; they were-- they were happy I was going, but we had a good time. DB: Sounds like it. TH: Well I' ; ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I-- we don' ; t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real-- that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh-- MH: Who was corrupt? TH: Jimmy Weaver (ph) MH: Your dad wasn' ; t corrupt? TH: Well Jimmy Weaver (ph) was. MH: (Laughing) DB: But they got together-- TH: Are you-- are you familiar with the county commissioner scandal in Oklahoma in the 70' ; s? DB: No. TH: Every county there was a federal indictment issued out of federal court in Oklahoma City. And every county but two counties had a county commissioner indicted. DB: Oh, that' ; s not good. TH: Oh it was-- it was-- they were thieving. They were getting-- DB: Hmm. TH: --kickback from suppliers is what they were doing. DB: Oh. TH: And they got some woman to testify and line ' ; em up and the Caterpillar dealer in Oklahoma City was indicted and went-- people went-- people went to prison-- DB: Hmm. TH: --over this. Well my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) were buddies and they started this gun show. DB: Like the gun shows they have in Tulsa now? TH: Yes! This was-- this was the first one. It was called the Bristow National Gun Show and my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) put it on. DB: Huh. TH: And the county furnished all the tables, and they had it at the armory to start with and they outgrew the armory and they went to the old fairgrounds buildings. Out there by the softball field. You remember those Quonset huts? DB: Yes. Yes. TH: They' ; d fill those things up. They' ; d have people from all over the country-- DB: Huh. TH: --come in here for that gun show. It was huge. It was monstrous. They' ; d let the Bristow Professional the PBW-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: They cooked and served food out there. It was a big deal. DB: I didn' ; t even know that we had a gun show like that, ever. TH: Oh yes! Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather-- DB: Yes. MH: --my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my-- he named it after my dad. DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that takes care of all the stray-- do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly' ; s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay. The log home across the road from Paul and Brenda was originally the Hughes cabin that went with the dairy. And so all of that land, my grandfather owned. DB: Hmm. MH: And he had Jersey Cattle and he was nationally known as one of the top breeders of Jersey Cattle in the country. He was president at one time of the Breeders Association blah, blah, blah. And they-- and they produced milk and the milk was delivered to homes in Bristow. Todd remembers as a child-- DB: Hmm. MH: --getting milk delivered. And when my grandfather died in ' ; 48, my grandmother and my dad-- my dad was an only child. They-- they decided to sell The dairy and I have pamphlets that were printed with-- it was like a show dog. The cows were named and had numbers. You know when they were auctioning all the-- all of that off. So, I mean I wasn' ; t alive yet. DB: And so this-- this dairy was one of many? MH: Hmm-uh. It was just-- DB: But I mean-- MH: The Bill Mack Dairy. DB: But there were other dairies around Bristow then? Or that was the only dairy? TH: No. MH: I don' ; t know. I don' ; t know that. TH: There were other dairies. DB: There were other dairies? TH: Yes, there was-- DB: But this was a pretty good size dairy you said many head of Jersey-- MH: Yes. DB: --cows in there-- MH: In fact, he brought some cattle directly over from the Isle of Jersey. DB: Oh, wow. MH: And when he started this-- why there was that interest, I have no idea. And they built the log home to live in in the summer when it was so hot. DB: Hmm. MH: And my grandmother had a big garden there and I mean I' ; ve seen pictures and all of that of course. DB: And that would' ; ve really been in the country? MH: Yes, it was in the country. Yes. Mm-hmm. DB: During that time. MH: Mm-hmm. But when my dad was a child, he had-- they had horses and back here in the backyard there' ; s what we used to call the dog pen when I was growing up. And there' ; s a small outbuilding and it has a stable door on one side and they would keep his horse in town some. And I have a picture of my grandfather on a horse in the front horse in the front yard. It' ; s on the refrigerator DB: Oh, I saw it as I walked by. MH: Yes, uh-huh. That was here. DB: And then they would load the horse up and take-- MH: I guess, I don' ; t know. DB: Had a horse in town. MH: And my grandfather bred championship bird dogs. Aren' ; t they? Weren' ; t they bird dogs, Todd? TH: Mm-hmm. She' ; s got trophies upstairs. MH: I' ; ve got a lot of trophies for his dogs. I guess he was into everything and then he had this drilling company, oil company-- DB: That' ; s just amazing. MH: --that went through different changes, you know. He' ; d have one partner and then when he died, I believe it was still Shaull Hughes (ph) then it was Doak and Hughes you know Linda Trigalet and her family was involved and-- yeah. And my dad sold the company when I was a senior in high school, 1967. DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or-- MH: He decided that was during when things-- the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don' ; t know. DB: What about your mom' ; s family? MH: My mom-- my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby. Grandpa' ; s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather' ; s grandmother-- grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never-- she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you-- a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not-- they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn' ; t-- DB: Yes. MH: -- I didn' ; t, you know the school and stuff. So-- so I' ; m-- what did we figure, Todd? I' ; m 1/16th? TH: 16th. MH: No, no, no-- TH: Or thirty-second. MH: Thirty-second. TH: Yeah. MH: Cherokee. TH: You look at it-- if you look at what the document-- if you look at the thing that her sister wrote-- MH: Mm-hmm. TH: --and start figuring it back where she' ; s 1/32nd. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And she has no way to prove that and I told her, you need to go do some research-- MH: I do, I have-- I can prove it. We have a family history on the Hodge side so I do have it. I have pictures of his mother in Indian garb and all that. But anyway, my grandmother was a Smith and I-- they were always from Oklahoma and my grandfather and my-- one of my grandmothers, no-- my grandfather and one of his brother in-laws started the Dr. Pepper bottling plant, that I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard about-- DB: Uh-- MH: --that was in Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And the brother in-law was named-- his name was Clell Long. And his-- DB: So many names in your family. MH: --and his wife Reba was my grandpas sister. DB: Huh. MH: And they started the bottling plant. I have a lot-- I have lots of pictures of that and after several years-- I don' ; t know the story behind it but grandpa sold his portion to Clell and grandpa continued to work for him for a while and then he put in a gas station which was between here and the Pizza Hut. Right Todd? I mean on that-- between where the bank is and the Pizza Hut. DB: Ida Fadely (ph) had that when I came here in ' ; 80, was Fadely' ; s. It was, I don' ; t remember what kind of gas station it was but it was on the hill between Pizza Hut and the bank. So-- MH: It was right in there, Todd. Wasn' ; t it. It was a Texaco Station? TH: Well, where it was, was down the hill. 66 came out of Bristow and went straight north to the entrance to the RL Jones (ph) property, and made a sharp right turn and went down and there was a bridge over Sand Creek. DB: Oh. TH: Right there where the bridge was when you crossed Sand Creek, on the right was a little old gas station and that was the Hodge Station. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, I remember all the oil cans back there in the creek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Hodge station. TH: When I was a kid. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave-- DB: (Chuckling) MH: --by me telling this story. But, grandpa-- grandma would always go down-- she would help him down there, you know. And she' ; d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men' ; s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so-- TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That' ; s right. And so-- I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don' ; t know. DB: But he-- she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)-- DB: That' ; s funny. MH: Yeah, yeah. And of course she was kind of embarrassed about that. She wouldn' ; t tell people, so I' ; m telling that (Inaudible) DB: (Laughter) MH: But-- DB: So it' ; ll be down for history' ; s sake. MH: And then grandpa, he did that for a while and then he went to work for Cunningham Chevrolet. And then he worked for the turnpike at the you know, the gates, you know. And that' ; s where he was working when he retired. He just did a little bit of everything. He actually went through junior high, education wise. My grandmother Hodge actually had a high school diploma which was not real-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --common back then. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And, but yeah and my mother had two brothers. My mother was the oldest. She went to school here of course. Both of my parents grew up in Bristow and lived in Bristow their entire lives. TH: Well, both of your parents were well educated. MH: Yes. My-- they both graduated from college. My dad graduated from OSU and then went to graduate school at TU. He was-- he was disabled from the Polio. He had Polio as a child, so he had a little bit of deformity in one hand and he was deaf in one ear. So he didn' ; t qualify, he couldn' ; t get in the-- he couldn' ; t get into the Army. He wanted-- during the war-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --this was the war time and he wanted to go so badly. And he told the story about at OSU he felt like he was one of the few males on campus and in fact he was in a gym class where he was the only person. And the-- the instructor said, " ; Well this is kind of ridiculous." ; or something like that. So he said you do what you want to and at the end of the semester, he played daddy a game of something and that was it-- DB: That was his final? MH: Yeah. But he was so upset that he could not get in the service. Somehow he managed to steal the hearing test. DB: Mmm. MH: The patterns, and he memorized it and he got in. DB: And he got in? MH: And he was in the Army and he was an MP in Japan after all of that my-- and his job-- one of his MP jobs, was to take the prostitutes every-- gather them up every week and take them for their weekly checkups. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: (Chuckling) and my grandmother was so horrified that he was doing that, that she made up what he was doing over there. She wouldn' ; t tell-- DB: Even though she got the play money from the condom-- MH: No this is-- DB: Oh (Chuckling). MH: Now this is the Hughes. DB: Oh okay. MH: This is the Hughes side. DB: (Laughing) MH: I' ; m sorry. DB: That' ; s alright. MH: But they-- yeah. She would tell-- she wouldn' ; t tell her church lady friends what he was doing over there. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: Now my dad was quite the-- the prankster. He did a lot of stuff. I heard stories about him when I was in high school from some of the same teachers that he had had. DB: Oh, yes. MH: Uh-huh. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah. DB: I could do that now. I' ; ve had so many different generations come through. MH: Mm-hmm DB: And it' ; s hard to not hold that against the child (Chuckling). MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Whenever you-- you know how the parent was-- MH: Right. DB: --whenever you had them, but-- MH: Uh-huh. DB: --you do. MH: And I have-- I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he-- you know he really-- you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he-- daddy convinced Mose-- DB: Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to-- it was New Orleans wasn' ; t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad-- my grandfather evidently told Mose said, " ; You keep an eye on him don' ; t let him out of your sight." ; ' ; cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we' ; re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket-- DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: --to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of-- I can' ; t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad' ; s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde' ; s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can' ; t remember but-- MH: They won one. TH: They won one and then the other one, Clyde didn' ; t remember anything about the game after the second-- after the first quarter. MH: Right. TH: He got thumped. MH: He got hit. TH: He got knocked out. MH: Because I think it said something about, this came from-- something about the goal post being torn down after TU won. So it must have been the first game so. Well, see Rosemary' ; s daughter Vicki (ph) and I have been lifelong best friends since we were babies and so I gave her all that stuff after you know I found-- DB: Oh, how wonderful. MH: --so she has all of that. So that was kind of a cool thing, you know. DB: If they had only known that Mose was a few years earlier, letting kids skip class to go hunting ducks-- TH: It was a-- DB: They probably wouldn' ; t have let him go to the Sugar Bowl. TH: It was hilarious. I was sworn to secrecy. I couldn' ; t tell anybody about that. Oh my gosh, and I didn' ; t. I didn' ; t. DB: Oh. TH: I had this little ole girl ask me. She said, " ; Where were you this morning?" ; I said, " ; Oh, I was late getting up." ; DB: (Chuckling) MH: Well and you need to tell-- you need to-- it needs to be on record about your mom being the town librarian for umpteen thousand years. TH: Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ' ; 70' ; s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don' ; t you? DB: Where the administration building-- MH: Yes. TH: That' ; s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries-- DB: You don' ; t think she was still there like in ' ; 81? TH: Oh, I can' ; t remember when-- DB: When she retired. I have been here since ' ; 81 and I can almost-- I think-- TH: Do you remember my mother-- DB: I think she was the one in there. MH: She might' ; ve been. I don' ; t remember because-- TH: Was she always telling you to be quiet and don' ; t talk. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah, that would be her. DB: She was kind of-- TH: Oh, she was meaner than shit and scary. MH: (Laughter) TH: I used to tease here I said, " ; Hell you' ; re a librarian-- DB: Them closing. TH: --in a town. You' ; re a librarian in a town nobody can read." ; DB: And Rita Oaks (ph) worked in the back and helped and that was Larry' ; s cousin. MH: See I don' ; t know a Rita Oaks (ph). DB: Max and Bernice Oaks (ph). Anyway Rita (ph) worked in the library in one of those back offices-- ' ; cause it seemed like Ms. Herman always set up here at the front. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And she had an office there were two offices behind the central desk. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And then there was somebody else always there, but I can' ; t remember. A boy? A man? I don' ; t know. But anyway, she was the town-- imposing town librarian-- MH: Yes. DB: -- for many, many years. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Over twenty years-- TH: I didn' ; t live here at that time. I would-- MH: But she was very helpful. You know, because back in the day when we had to do research papers. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, your sophomore, junior and senior year. It was all-- you had to do everything by looking through a card catalog-- DB: Yes. MH: --and looking up stuff and Mrs. Armith (ph) (chuckling) was extremely helpful-- DB: Yes. MH: --about that kind of stuff and she was very knowledgeable. You know, she could be a pill but-- and people that we know now that worked with her, you know like student aids or something-- back then would help her at school. I mean at the library after school. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, they loved working with-- she knew a lot for somebody that wasn' ; t a librarian by training. She-- DB: So how did she become the librarian? MH: Do you know Todd? Do you remember? TH: The mayor was Bill Shibley (ph). My dad was the city clerk. DB: And they needed one? TH: And they-- they needed one and so Bill Shibley (ph) and the council agreed with it and she-- they hired her to be the librarian. She was just pleased as hell to get out of the house and go to the library, and she basically self-trained herself. She had to fuss with the library board all the time. DB: (Chuckling) TH: They were very unkind and ignorant. I won' ; t name names. MH: No. TH: But they' ; re-- they' ; re here. I think they' ; re-- MH: Todd! TH: -- probably all gone by now, but anyway-- DB: No names. MH: No names. TH: -- oh it was ugly. There was a lot of fussing going on. You know, and-- DB: But she held her own? She held her own. TH: Pretty much. She did alright and-- DB: Well she built it up to something that was pretty-- TH: Well she got-- DB: --pretty great for-- TH: --she got mad. They had some library graduates. Library science grads come down here from OSU-- DB: Hmm. TH: --and go through the library. " ; Oh you don' ; t need this book. You don' ; t need that book." ; And they went through and they got rid and she had some-- she had some great material down there. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She had a pictorial history of the Civil War. There were three big volumes and they made her get rid of that. When I found that out I just absolutely-- DB: Hmm. TH: --I got so upset about that and I went to Bill Bursler (ph) and told him what a dumb shit he was. MH: Okay Todd. That' ; s enough on that. TH: So I won' ; t say anymore. MH: No, don' ; t. Honey, don' ; t. TH: I could not believe they threw that stuff out. DB: Yeah. TH: She said, " ; I was in tears when they boxed that up and carried it out of here." ; They had-- they had these library science people come down. You know you still had the old Dewey Decimal System of Classification going back then. DB: Oh yes. TH: You remember studying-- DB: Well they still have-- TH: --about that? DB: Well they still put books up with the Dewey Decimal System but-- TH: Do they? Okay. DB: Yeah. TH: That' ; s good. DB: Well they still have them shelved that way but-- TH: Now everything all digital and-- DB: --but-- TH: -- and all that stuff. DB: You look everything up digitally but there' ; s still-- TH: That' ; s right. So anyway, that-- I remember being all upset about getting rid of all that Civil War stuff. DB: I was always the one when Jennifer (ph) would take old books out of the library-- I couldn' ; t let an old book go by and I' ; d always-- whenever I was teaching and I' ; d say, " ; I don' ; t know how I' ; d use that in my classroom, but let me have that book anyway." ; And kind of house some of those old books and the kids don' ; t look at books nowadays. TH: No. DB: Because it takes time to look at a book. They can' ; t get to it immediately. Some of those books were pictorial of the National Parks. MH: Priceless. Yes. DB: Or whatever. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And it just-- I couldn' ; t see her-- TH: No, some of that stuff-- DB: --do away with ' ; em. So I understand the feeling. TH: --some of the stuff was published in the 20' ; s. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: You know, it was old. DB: Mm-hmm. I understand those feelings. TH: Yeah. DB: Well now, think hard about-- TH: I have another story-- DB: Okay. TH: --about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of-- and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20' ; s or in the 30' ; s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. TH: That' ; s the Judge Herman. DB: Oh, okay. So I know what one is, but why don' ; t you explain what a soup kitchen is. TH: Well that' ; s where you had a place that you could feed hungry men. Hungry people. Men, women children, whoever showed up. And there was a big ice plant at Main and the railroad tracks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: On the southeast corner across the street. Really where the-- DB: Community Bank drive-thru-- TH: Community Bank drive in would be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It was a great big building. Had a big steam generator in it, and they made ice. Sam Blackburn (ph) was the manager of that thing and they had-- they made ice because the trains would come through here with produce and they' ; d have to keep-- you didn' ; t have refrigerated-- DB: Right. TH: --cars back then-- DB: Right. TH: --if you wanted-- if you were shipping vegetables from California to Chicago, you did it by train and you put ice in it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that' ; s the reason you had the ice plant. Well they set the soup kitchen up down there at the ice plant and I remember seeing pictures of men lined up to get food. It was a soup kitchen, they cooked it and fed it-- fed people there. DB: Was that like during the depression? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s during the depression of the 30' ; s. That' ; s the reason Oklahoma was so heavily democratic for years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Because of Roosevelt. They didn' ; t like Hoover who was a Republican. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: ' ; Cause he didn' ; t do anything about the depression. There was no government relief back then. You wound up having the WPA around here and everything. I can show you WPA bridges now that are still on these county roads and bridges and stuff that are still good. DB: Wasn' ; t it the WPA that did something at the park? MH: Built-- DB: Built the amphitheater or the-- MH: Built the amphitheater-- TH: Yes, that was the amphitheater, MH: --and the entrance to the park-- DB: Yes. MH: --there was the big plaque there which they preserved. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: When they-- when they changed that entrance. The way it looks now with the-- you know they replaced the stone with the brick-- DB: Yes, I remember-- MH: --that was WPA. Wasn' ; t it Todd? TH: Yes. DB: I thought I had remembered hearing that. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And there was a ranch down south of Slick now. You go down this ole ranch road and there' ; s a bridge-- a concrete bridge up there. DB: Yes. TH: And it' ; s got WPA on it. And it was an old county road and since it' ; s been abandoned. DB: Huh. TH: And there' ; s another WPA bridge out on 201st like you' ; re going to where Levan Kelly lives. Says WPA it' ; s on the concrete. And that was started by president Roosevelt. MH: So the soup kitchen Todd, that-- there were-- TH: Yeah. MH: --soup kitchens all over the country. TH: Yeah. But my grandfather-- MH: But he was the one that started it here-- TH: Started it here in Bristow. DB: How long did it-- TH: I don' ; t know. I' ; ve seen pictures of men. My mother had some pictures. They were probably at the public library and got thrown out with all the trash. MH: (Laughter) DB: But that happened for the whole time-- TH: Well we had a great economy-- DB: I know-- good-- TH: Depression had started in October of 1929 and lasted actually until World War II started. We still were in a depression when World War II started. DB: Okay, so the soup kitchen could' ; ve easily been there ten years? TH: Well, I don' ; t know how long it was-- DB: But it could have been there for a while-- TH: Well no, it' ; s just-- that' ; s the way it was-- MH: Well-- TH: I' ; ve always heard this my whole life. " ; You want (Indecipherable) tell it like it is kid." ; . He went to a man named RL Jones (ph). Have you ever heard that name? DB: I have. TH: That' ; s Roger Collins (ph) grandfather. RL Jones (ph) was a Mississippi planter that came up here. His brother was in on the Cushing oil field. Lots of money. He went to RL Jones (ph), and RL (ph) said " ; What do you need? Just go down to the Safeway Store and get what you need and I' ; ll take care of it." ; RL Jones (ph) had a big interest in this country. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And was very philanthropic. MH: Well, and I think too, Todd-- I mean like, I did not grow up the way my dad did. My dad lived an extremely charmed life and they had people that worked for them full time. That kind of thing. But my dad-- because during the depression and all that, he lived totally differently than the people that were having to go to the-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --soup kitchens to eat and all that. Because of that and he can remember as a child-- you know, hearing stories and seeing and things with the Dust Bowl and all of that. He was extremely generous. We were taught to be generous. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He felt like, he never felt he was better than anybody else and he could talk to anybody-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: -- you know, from the lowest of the low to the, you know. So I think everybody came out of that era, especially in Oklahoma. It effected everybody differently-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know my mother grow up-- grew up, they didn' ; t have much. She didn' ; t have indoor plumbing until she was like nine years old. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, so it was-- DB: Right. Well, because then my mother, she' ; ll save the smallest portion of food-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --because she can eat it and you know, so-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and when we-- when my grandmother passed away-- MH: Right. DB: --we went through her freezer and they would find really small amounts of things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but when you live through that time with nothing, you saved everything-- MH: Yes. DB: --because you didn' ; t know where your next meal was gonna come from or how much you would have. You might need to piece-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it together with all these-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --little things and so I can see that you had people coming out feeling that they didn' ; t know where their next meal was gonna come from-- MH: Right. DB: --and then you had the people over here who saw the-- what it had done and wanted to be-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --generous and you know. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: My dad was that way. He was, you know he was a young man during The Depression and had been poor-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and had a hard time. It had effected my dad-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --all his life. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anything he could take and convert to cash, he would do it. He got in my mother' ; s jewelry box one time and she had all this jewelry because her grandfather-- her father had the jewelry store. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And when they sold that, she took a bunch of it. And it was-- it was not, you know. He takes it and sells it! MH: (Laughter) TH: To Jim Tallent at the pawn shop down here and she comes up and it' ; s missing. And she keeps (Indecipherable) getting in her jewelry box-- DB: Oh my! TH: --and she raised hell with my dad and made him go back down to Jim Tallent-- DB: (Laughter) and get her jewelry back! TH: --and get her jewelry back (Laughter). I remember that going on. Do you know what he did? I remember her telling me that on the phone. I just absolutely, absolutely dying laughing. DB: I went to my grandmother' ; s house one time and she had this-- I still have the lamp in my bedroom. But she had this lamp, it had no shade and it was green and I just-- oh I wanted that lamp. Larry and I-- it was, we had just got-- been married a few years and you could take things like that on the airplane then-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and so, she gave-- they lived in Farmington, New Mexico. So she gave me that lamp and I remember my grandad saying, " ; Why do you always give away our best stuff?" ; MH: (Laughter) DB: And this thing had been out in the garage for who knows how long-- MH: Yeah! TH: Yeah. DB: --but he was saying-- accusing her of giving away their best stuff and she' ; d say " ; Well, they' ; re gonna use it." ; TH: Well, you have to understand what makes these people-- you know. MH: Well my mother would save-- which maybe a lot of people do, my brother does it. I couldn' ; t do it, drives me nuts. You know like the baggies? You use a baggy to put something in the fridge? DB: And wash it out and use it again-- MH: My mother would wash them out and that was the-- do you do that too? DB: No, my mother does though. MH: Oh, and that' ; s from the depr-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --I mean that is not having much-- DB: She saves aluminum foil too. (Laughter) MH: Yes, mother did. Yes. DB: Yes. MH: Yes. Yeah, so it' ; s, you know. DB: It' ; s all from that time period and I learned from someone whose parents had been through that, so I had those tendencies. That I' ; ll save a little bit of food-- MH: Right, well I do that too. DB: Or I want to take care to reuse things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --when I can. Maybe not to the extreme she does-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but you know, we' ; re all effected. Your generous with what you have, because of what you saw parents do. Because they had seen-- MH: Right. DB: --their parents do it and we are. MH: But you know, it' ; s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --the second. So they-- and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad' ; s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home-- I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, " ; Okay, she' ; s" ; -- they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm-- a ward, they called it. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: There were all these cribs and the little girl was supposedly across the room at the other end. Well they-- so they' ; re walking to go see her and they walk by this crib where this child is just screaming and crying and just going crazy and my grandfather stopped and he said, " ; We' ; ll take that one." ; and it was my dad. DB: (Gasp) Oh how awesome! TH: That' ; s a great story. DB: That is a good story. TH: You' ; ve never told me that. MH: Oh yes I have. DB: (Laughter) TH: (Laughter) I couldn' ; t remember. MH: Yeah. DB: You didn' ; t remember it. That is unbelievable. TH: I' ; m always in trouble for not remembering. MH: And so my dad always said-- and he said this all the time, " ; I believe in miracles." ; Because from that moment was a miracle and when he was-- when my mother was pregnant with me, my dad was real worried that he would pass something along to me. Because he had no-- no genuine relatives and so my grandmother wrote a letter to the home-- DB: Where he had come from. MH: Where he had come from, and said she wanted as much information as possible. And I have the letter that they wrote her back, and his-- they told her that there was nothing to, you know be concerned about. His father had been in his forties and was an attorney and they were from back east. His mother who had been sent to this place in Kansas City had come from a wealthy family. She was like nineteen or twenty and she was a legal secretary. DB: So they were-- MH: So you kind of put together the story behind that. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And talked about her physical descriptions. Talked about his dads and you know, so that was-- you know. His fears were put aside-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --but he was so concerned and when I graduated, when I graduated from Bristow, I went to KU to college and when I was I think maybe a junior, there was big article in the Kansas City paper about-- it was around the time that they were forcing adoption records to-- they were start trying to get some of them opened. And there was a lawsuit against the home which was still existed that my dad had come from in Kansas City. DB: Hmm. MH: And that all of these people were signing on to this lawsuit to force them to open their records. And I remember calling home and telling daddy about it and saying, " ; You need to do this, you know here is who you contact" ; you know blah blah blah. And he said, " ; No." ; and I said, " ; What, you why?" ; you know and he said, " ; I had the best parents anybody could' ; ve ever wanted. I was blessed. That' ; s all I need to know." ; DB: There you go. MH: So he never would-- DB: Well and his fears also had been taken care of when they told him that little bit that they told him, so. MH: And we all turned out semi-normal. So-- (Laughter) TH: You' ; re more than semi-normal. DB: (Laughter) MH: Well and so-- TH: You' ; re outstanding. MH: No, well and then there' ; s a great-- I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to a Kelly somewhere along the line. There' ; s a great story about my dad and Tracy Kelly. They played together, they were the same age, they played together as kids. And there' ; s a story, Tracy told this at my dad' ; s funeral. This was a true story. One day he was-- Tracy came over here to play with daddy. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And daddy got tired of Tracy. DB: (Laughter) MH: So he-- the story was a hammer. I don' ; t know if it was a real hammer, but he picked up a hammer and hit Tracy in the head. DB: Oh my. MH: And so he started screaming and crying. My dad went and got on the phone and he called Dorcas and he said, " ; You need to come get Tracy-- (Laughter) MH: --he won' ; t stop crying and I' ; m tired of playing with him!" ; (Laughter) MH: And they were like six years old or something like that. DB: Oh! Oh my goodness! MH: Yeah, they were just little boys-- DB: The little boy called Dorcas. MH: Yes! DB: Oh! MH: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: ' ; Cause see all those families-- DB: He' ; s crying and he won' ; t stop-- MH: Crying. Yeah. You know ' ; cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it' ; s just-- there' ; s so much that' ; s-- all that history' ; s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it' ; s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it' ; s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was-- I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these-- this couple-- I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, " ; Well I grew up in Oklahoma" ; and the guy said, " ; Really, where?" ; and I said, " ; Oh, you' ; ve never heard of it." ; He said, " ; Well try me." ; And I said, " ; It' ; s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow." ; And he said, " ; Bristow?" ; he said, " ; There' ; s--" ; he said, " ; I know something about Bristow." ; He said, " ; There' ; s a real famous athlete from Bristow." ; And I said, " ; Really?" ; (Laughter) MH: And he goes, " ; Yeah! Real famous." ; I said, " ; What' ; s his name?" ; and he said, " ; Clyde LeForce" ; I said, " ; Oh, Clyde. Clyde' ; s just Clyde." ; (Laughter) DB: He' ; s not famous. Yes. MH: I' ; ve known him my whole life. DB: Yes. MH: You know ; it was just-- but that was so strange. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, just to have that-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Your parents are friends and then your friends and you know. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And we didn' ; t even know each other so. DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want-- DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven' ; t even scratched the surface ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn' ; t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life-- a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was-- I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn' ; t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that' ; s another long story. DB: Where' ; d you go to school? TH: Well I wound up going to school at Alva, Oklahoma at Northwest Oklahoma State. That' ; s where I graduated from. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; d gone down to OU as a invited walk on. Stayed three days and left. I was not near as good as I thought I was. (Laughter) TH: And I was always ashamed about that but anyway, went up to Central State and enrolled and went to school up there and quite frankly, I was very immature. I couldn' ; t stay out of the beer joints and Oklahoma City had all these honky tonks, and I had a fake ID that said I was twenty-one when I was nineteen or twenty. You could buy one of those for five dollars from the print shop at Edmond. They' ; d make you up one and I had bad grades and you know if you don' ; t go to class-- MH: You flunked it out, Todd! TH: I didn' ; t flunk out. MH: (Laughter) DB: You were not gonna go through that first grade thing again. MH: No. Right. Yeah. TH: I was gonna go ahead and volunteer for the army ' ; cause you had the military draft back then and I-- my mother had a friend. She was my friend too, her name was Marie Arthurs. Her husband was Judge Arthurs, he was a superior court judge. Not district court, Oklahoma still had the superior court-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --system back then. And she came over at Christmas and she had gone to Alva to teach and she was over there and my mother was so upset with me-- MH: Well they were all long time family here. I don' ; t know if you' ; ve heard about the Arthurs at all, but. TH: Yeah, the Arthurs family. She called me and she said, " ; Would you come over." ; She lived right next door to the Schumacher funeral home. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: There was a house there. That' ; s where they lived. Well her son is my friend that lives in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. I remember that name. TH: And Stewart (ph) was Stewart was-- MH: He was sword fighting with him. (Laughter) TH: Yeah. That sword fighting buddy. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Stewart (ph) had gone up there out of college. Stewart (ph) was a great athlete and she came over and said, " ; Todd, I' ; ve called the football coach at Alva. He' ; s expecting you to come up and visit with him tomorrow." ; That' ; s the way she put it. She said, " ; I hope you go." ; DB: And you went. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: So the next morning, I left and I drove up to Alva. I never seen a wheat field that big in my life. DB: (Laughter) TH: I had to stop and ask a guy. I said, " ; What' ; s all that green stuff growing out there?" ; and he says, " ; Son, that' ; s winter wheat." ; They didn' ; t grow any winter wheat around here. Corn and milo and cotton and stuff like that. I remember seeing that, and anyway I went up there and met the football coach, and he said, " ; Yeah" ; he said, " ; Come on up and I' ; ll give you a little scholarship." ; And so hell, I went and there was about three of us that wound up going up there to school. Burton Lincoln (ph) and Duwayne Whited (ph) and I don' ; t know. So I went up there and went to school. DB: And played ball? TH: Yeah! You know, hell I hadn' ; t had a-- I hadn' ; t had a shoulder pads or helmet on three years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I had chances to go to small schools out of high school, but my dad always talked me out of it. My dad was a very negative person. You know, everything was the dark at the end of the tunnel and I am definitely not that way. I' ; m the light at the end of the tunnel, we' ; ll get to the end of the tunnel if there' ; s a problem, we' ; ll figure it out. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She gets mad at me for saying that they' ; ll figure it out. MH: (Laughter) TH: And she worries. Mary D.' ; s a planner and a plotter and I' ; m not. I just kind of fly by the side of my pants, and anyway I went up there and here' ; s all these ole boys and there were a couple of guys that I had gone to high school with that were up there and I went up there and I wound up playing and graduating. It was a big deal when I graduated and I never did teach and I wound up, I was in the international guard and I did that so I didn' ; t-- I was about to get drafted. And this was Pre-Vietnam but I didn' ; t wasn' ; t to get drafted in the army ' ; cause I talked to too many draftees. If you can avoid it, do it. But anyway, did that and went to work for an oil field chemical company and lived up in Kansas and went through a marriage and left and came back to Oklahoma and wound up going to work for a big insurance company, being an insurance salesman. My God, I didn' ; t want to be an insurance salesman. DB: (Laughter) TH: But it was a good thing I did and I worked for this company for twenty-six years. DB: Oh my. TH: And I retired when I was fifty-seven. And I' ; ve had a good life, I' ; ve-- it' ; s like ole Levi. I said, " ; You know you grow up, you want to be a play boy." ; And I don' ; t mean a play boy-- DB: Right. TH: Play boy. I mean, live the good life. DB: That' ; s right. TH: Levi loves to hunt. I' ; ve corrupted him and I' ; ve corrupted his brother Michael. Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They' ; ve been taught how to shoot. They' ; ve all got nice guns and they' ; re my students. That' ; s what I call em' ; . They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I' ; m proud of em' ; . They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And-- DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That' ; s my great nephews. MH: Great nephews. DB: Great nephews. TH: That' ; s my niece, Kelly' ; s (ph) children. DB: Okay. TH: And when she called me up when Levi, I think was nine and Michael was eleven and said " ; Oh Todd, these boys are just bugging me. They want to go hunting so bad." ; And it was about three days, four days before deer season, so hell I gathered em' ; up and we go to learn how to shoot a rifle one afternoon. They get to go deer hunting and kill a deer opening day and I remember Levi calling his mother on the cell phone jumping up and down, " ; I killed a deer mom, I killed a deer!" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: You know. MH: Todd just has one sister so that' ; s-- TH: Anyway, there-- I don' ; t have any actual children. I have-- I raised a couple of kids with my second wife that didn' ; t turn out too well. The boys dead and the girls-- the girls just-- MH: Has issues. TH: --she has a lot of issues. But, she had two children. Two little girls and we helped raise those two little girls and so I' ; m close to them. (Indecipherable) I went over there, took a birthday gift to the seven-year-old and the three-year-old comes up and she says, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: ' ; Cause I always take ' ; em a box of tacos. They love tacos. DB: You forgot the tacos. TH: I didn' ; t take the tacos, and the three-year-old comes up, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; (Laughter). DB: Hmm. TH: Anyway, that' ; s just part of my-- that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn' ; t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That' ; s-- how long you-- how long have we been married? Let' ; s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. MH: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don' ; t think I would' ; ve liked him if (Laughter) when we were growing up. TH: No, she wouldn' ; t of. MH: He was quite the (Indecipherable). What was it you won every year as a big wheel? Loudest-- TH: Most mischievous. MH: Mischievous! Yeah. TH: Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Embarrassed my mother and my dad. " ; That' ; s all you do." ; DB: (Laughter) TH: Weren' ; t you most likely to succeed and smartest? MH: No. DB: Instead of Mischievous. TH: No I' ; m just-- I am. You are what you are! DB: That is! TH: Isn' ; t that the truth? DB: That is the absolute truth. TH: And I have had-- I' ; ll have to say this, the experiences that I had growing up in Bristow have served me well, I have many friends. I' ; ll give an example, on Tuesday of this week was the opening day of turkey season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It' ; s a tradition that myself and two of my friends open the season together. There-- we' ; re all Bristow boys. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: My two friends don' ; t live here, but this is still home. Their parents are buried here ; they will be buried here. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: I will be buried here in Bristow. This is home. We have all these pleasant memories-- DB: That' ; s right. TH: --about running up and down these streets here on west-- the west side of town. MH: And it' ; s so different than it used to be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. DB: I mean there are factions around, you know little groups around town that I feel like there' ; s that same connection to the town, but they' ; re few and far between. And most of them have connections that go back, and back, and back and they' ; re just continuing the tradition with their children. I mean Linda and her-- I see her children raising their children in the same way with the craziness and the-- MH: Right. DB: The playing and I mean the stories that she used to tell living on Sixth Street and it was just like there' ; s that past. TH: Sixth Street was the big time street. This-- I was raised on Ninth Street. My two friends that I was telling you about-- one of them was raised over here on Eighth street, the house is still there. The other one was raised up on Tenth Street. MH: Oh and see we had like the house behind here. That was the John' ; s family. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And they had four kids. We were each the same age as the other one. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, Judd Johns. You know Judd? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay, he and my brother, they were like a year apart and they-- we, the four was each other' ; s family. We were together all the time and our bedroom was up here and Billy-- the oldest one-- his bedroom was on the back part of the house also. And when we were kids we would raise our windows and you know we listened to WLS out of Chicago, cause that was the station-- the rock station-- TH: That' ; s right. MH: --that you could get at night. TH: That and WOAI MH: Yeah. TH: In San Antonio. MH: And we would turn our radios on the same station and we would just talk out the back windows. We had phones but you know, we used to keep their Santa gifts in our house and you know Judd and my brother when they were little boys, the Kirchner' ; s lived on the corner up here and Billy, Mick (ph) and Judd were playing detectives. Now they are little kids and they go knock on Mrs. Kirchner' ; s door and they had had no children and they were old at the time. And they said, " ; We need to come check out your house." ; And she said, " ; Why?" ; and they told her something about, " ; Well there was a suspect." ; I' ; m sure they didn' ; t use the name suspect, but they had to go check out her house and she let them in. She let ' ; em go through all of the whole-- and of course and then I' ; m sure she called my mom and Virginia, you know. But you know, there were the Johns-- Virginia Johns used to keep pop on her back porch and that was in bottles and you' ; d have the cases and-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --they bottled, okay. Well there was a family by the name of the Coburgs (ph) that lived two or three doors up, a bunch of kids. Well the Coburgs (ph) would come and get into the pop all the time. DB: Hmm. MH: So Virginia-- the mom-- Judd' ; s mother, who was a riot. She thought, " ; I' ; m gonna get them." ; So she took some of those pop bottles and she opened ' ; em and she poured half the pop out and then filled the rest with vinegar or something foul and then put the cap back on. (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. MH: I mean I could talk for hours about stories about growing up here with you know, and the kids. But it' ; s like Todd said, everybody knew everybody. You couldn' ; t get away with doing anything. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, when we would go trick-or-treating people would set up haunted houses in their homes, and you' ; d go in and you never thought anything about it. And our parents weren' ; t with us we were just in gangs. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Walking the streets and it' ; s just-- my boys didn' ; t grow up that way. You couldn' ; t you just didn' ; t do that ; you know? DB: Well when I moved here, I was impressed because I had never lived-- I had lived in Tulsa-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and then I had lived in Owasso. I had never lived someplace where they would close Main Street for whatever function and you could just walk around in the middle of the road. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And everybody knew everybody and I was so glad that I was finally here and-- TH: I knew that there was seven or eight Bristow policeman. I knew every one of ' ; em by first name. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They knew who I was. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: If I got out of line-- DB: That-- TH: You weren' ; t gonna hide it. DB: My husband grew up here, so he-- MH: Exactly. DB: --is the same way. TH: Yes. MH: That' ; s exactly the truth. DB: And then they' ; d run him down because he was kind of-- liked to visit those places you were talking about and he liked to race cars and they would pull him over and put him in jail and then let him go and say, " ; Go home" ; and he would go home and then be right back out a few hours later-- TH: They had-- DB: --doing the same thing! TH: --and they had one police car. DB: And they, you know-- but-- TH: One police car for the whole town. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Now they got thirteen of ' ; em down there. MH: And we had a Teen Town (ph) DB: Mm-hmm. MH: To go-- what they would do like a big thing and you know-- the fair-- we still call it-- I still call it the fairgrounds. I don' ; t know what they call it now. But where they have all those buildings-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that the city stores stuff, you know? There' ; d be like big festivals in the fall and you could go out-- who knows what we did out there. I don' ; t remember, I just-- it was around-- DB: It was the fairgrounds. MH: Yeah and it was around Halloween and you know-- TH: Well they had-- they had a fair. They had the Creek County Free Fair out there in the fall. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was that what it was? TH: Yes, that was a big deal. They had a carnival come in. Oh I remember all that. DB: If there was fairgrounds, there had to be a fair. TH: I have-- MH: Yeah, well what' ; s-- TH: --to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That' ; s how everybody traveled back then-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker-- they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur' ; s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a-- this was all Democratic country back then. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: The only Republicans were the Kelly' ; s. That' ; s the only Republicans in town. Everybody else was a Democrat. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Roosevelt. Because of the Depression. MH: Well-- TH: Now, I can remember-- MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Pardon? MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Well, he was in a minority back then. MH: Oh. TH: He was really, he was. DB: But Bristow was a stop-- TH: This was a stop on the train-- DB: --on this presidential-- TH: On the-- yeah. They got out and he had-- DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Adlai Stevenson-- MH: How old were you, Todd? Do you remember? TH: Well, it was in 1952. MH: Oh-- TH: Adlai-- MH: --so you were like thirteen, something like that? TH: Yeah. Twelve, thirteen years old. I was probably in the seventh grade. MH: Well my grandmother could remember when they would talk about-- she would talk about when Eleanor Roosevelt came through-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: --on the stops. Because she was doing like a WPA. TH: (Cough) Pardon me. MH: Wasn' ; t she something-- TH: No that was for the amphitheater at Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Yeah. TH: She gave the speech dedicating the amphitheater. DB: But that' ; s pretty amazing that Bristow was a stop-- TH: Well this was the main line. DB: --on the presidential-- TH: The Frisco Railroad was the main line. It hooked in and went on west. DB: Well I had no idea. TH: Oh, we had-- MH: There was a lot of-- TH: A lot of trains. A lot of passenger trains. MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ' ; 30' ; s, ' ; 40' ; s, late ' ; 20' ; s, there was a lot-- there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It' ; s how all of these beautiful churches got built and-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian-- MH: The Methodist. TH: -- the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are-- TH: Boy I tell you what you should-- what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. DB: They may have. TH: He was-- MH: They might have caught--interviewed him or Maree. TH: --Absolutely amazing guy. DB: I know they did the-- TH: And Mr. Friarson (ph) DB: Freeland (ph)? TH: Who? DB: No. TH: Krumme? DB: Krumme. I know they' ; ve interviewed the Krumme' ; s. TH: Yes. George Krumme. DB: Yes. TH: Harland (ph) and George. MH: Did they interview Tracy or Levan? DB: I-- I don' ; t know. MH: Back then? DB: I don' ; t think so. MH: ' ; Cause Levan was a gold mine too. Roger Collins (ph) is a gold mine. DB: Royce is the only one-- MH: Yeah, that' ; s Peter' ; s (ph) dad. DB: Mm-hmm. That-- I mean Levan was his brother and Tracy was I mean-- TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And he gave me the stories about his mom and dad and how they met and-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --what he could remember about early Bristow, but I didn' ; t have anything to do with the first recordings. MH: Right because they did those in the 70' ; s I think, early 80' ; s. DB: Yeah, now Betty (ph) but I don' ; t know-- I mean somebody could talk to Betty (ph)-- MH: Betty Kelly (ph)? DB: Kelly. Or Polly (ph) but I don' ; t know that anybody has. MH: Well see, Betty (ph) grew up here. TH: Polly grew up in Independence, Kansas. MH: Yeah. Betty (ph) would know. Betty (ph) would probably remember. She would probably be a good person if somebody hasn' ; t talked to-- DB: Is she a McMillian? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Mm-hmm. MH: Yes. DB: That' ; s what I thought. MH: And see, its-- everything is so entwined like my dad' ; s name was William Mack Hughes. The Mack is from the McMillian name because the McMillians and my grandparents, the Hughes were very best friends. DB: See there' ; s the-- yeah. Everything is-- MH: And that' ; s why Betty (ph) and Levan ended up-- DB: By the dairy. MH: Yes, because it was her aunt and uncle that McMillian that were good friends with my grandparents. And my grandparents gave them five acres on the other side of the road that the Hughes owned and so McMillians built a cabin and I have a picture of all of them standing outside our cabin and they were-- it was a party invitation-- DB: Huh. MH: They were doing like part of the party at the Hughes cabin and then they were going across the road for dessert at the McMillian cabin. And like the Dokes are in that picture. You know, like Linda Trigalet' ; s ancestors and-- DB: Wow. MH: Yeah. But so that' ; s how-- yeah. Mm-hmm. But Betty (ph), Betty (ph) would know a lot. I would think. Somebody should talk to her now. She' ; s ninety something. DB: Mm-hmm. I' ; ll put her on the list. MH: And I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to JC (ph)? DB: They won' ; t let us in the nursing home. MH: They won' ; t? DB: Hmm-mm. They tried. Georgia' ; s tried. And I mean, the longer you wait, you know. TH: How about Eddie-- DB: --the harder it gets to-- TH: How about Eddie Bishop? Has anybody talked to Eddie Bishop at the tabbouleh place? DB: Hmm-mm. TH: See his folks had a grocery store here for years. MH: See, the Bishop family would be a-- that would be-- you know there were a lot of Bishops in town. TH: But I have to brag about Bristow. I had a good upbringing. I had a good education from the high school, at least I felt like I did. I could' ; ve got a lot better one if I would' ; ve been mature enough to put out more effort. But I was a goof off my whole life. I wanted to have a good time and but gee, I' ; ve been all over the world hunting. Well not all over the world, but I' ; ve been-- what have I been. I' ; ve been-- DB: A good piece of it. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Well, I' ; ve been to Canada twenty- three straight falls hunting. DB: Wow. TH: I went to Alaska thirteen straight years fishing. DB: Oh, Tom Miller used to make that trek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: He' ; d go up ; I don' ; t know where-- north. TH: Tom went to the Yukon-- DB: Is that Canada? TH: Yeah. DB: Okay. (Chuckling) TH: He was up there, he was mining. He was gold mining. DB: I just know that-- TH: He and-- DB: --when I worked with Martha, he went up there every year. TH: He and Oscar. MH: Todd' ; s very fond of Tom. TH: Tom was-- he was a neighbor to my parents over on ninth street and I got to know Tom. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And-- DB: He was a pretty good guy. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was a good guy. Tough son of a gun. MH: I never had him in school for some reason but-- DB: Well, and I didn' ; t go here but I met him afterword' ; s. MH: everybody did-- said he was-- DB: And I always liked him. MH: I had, you know--some of these teachers when I was in school had had my parents and I actually had the math teacher at the high school tell me, in class, " ; You' ; re certainly not the student your mother was. What happened to you?" ; or something. TH: Was that Ms. Gurley (ph). MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) MH: Yes, sir. DB: I' ; ve heard that name before too. MH: Yeah. TH: Yeah. MH: So I bet you' ; ve heard some interesting stories, Debbie. DB: Heard some different things. Heard some different things. I' ; m gonna turn this off unless you guys have more. TH: No. TH: I hope I haven' ; t hurt anybody' ; s feelings. DB: No, we' ; ll take care of that. End of interview. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml
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Todd and Mary Herman
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In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time.
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OHP-2020-14
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2021-04-09
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audio
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Oral History
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
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Jim Hurt
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml
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5.4 June 30, 2021 OHP-2021-16 Jim Hurt OHP-2021-16 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jim Hurt Georgia Smith 1:|65(7)|128(9)|158(6)|215(5)|236(12)|252(1)|288(3)|334(2)|347(16)|385(15)|441(2)|466(6)|521(5)|581(1)|621(7)|658(10)|679(5)|721(2)|767(3)|801(1)|859(2)|927(10)|973(11)|999(12)|1019(14)|1055(10)|1083(4)|1113(2)|1169(8)|1217(2)|1249(7)|1285(2)|1328(12)|1370(12)|1400(9)|1455(9)|1496(3)|1535(2)|1577(12)|1608(2)|1637(14)|1658(12)|1690(6)|1748(11)|1798(10)|1841(3)|1895(2)|1928(6)|1984(2)|2027(5)|2063(12)|2090(18)|2115(3)|2127(14)|2146(10)|2181(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-16 Hurt, Jim.mp3.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I’m sitting here with Jim Hurst and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. Amy Hannah Higginbotham ; Brian Kelly Hurt ; Bruce Allen Hurt ; Deep Rock Oil Camp ; Gerald Guy Henshaw ; H.A Hugginbotham ; Jimmy Allen Hurt ; Joe Stiner ; Lovett School ; Mr. Medows ; O.D Thorpes Grocery Store ; Patricia Marie Hurt ; Poor Farm ; Route 66 ; Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/185143745/amy-h-hurst Amy H. Higginbotham Hurst https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157923094/norma-lee-wieberdink Norma Lee Hurt Weiberdink 253 Early Childhood GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old— GS: Oh. JH: —and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother’s dad and his— my grandmother lived across the road. Lovett school ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery Store O.D. Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277637/o-d-thorpe 561 Peanut Factory GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut— JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. Bill Bethel ; Peanut Capitol ; Peanut Capitol of the World ; peanut mill ; Peanuts 651 Early School Life GS: That’s— that’s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole— the tornado thing is still there, but the building— there’s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry — GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry— castle store ; Edison ; Edison school ; football ; grade school ; Jerry Riley ; Lovett ; Mr. Castle ; Mrs. Bean ; Mrs. Cake ; Mrs. Farbro ; Mrs. Liss ; Norma Lee ; Red Rover ; school ; second grade ; Washington ; Washington playground Jerry Garland Riley https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112945715/jerry-garland-riley Bill Bethel https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/31876265/bill-bethel 940 Church life GS: Okay. Okay, I’m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about— I’m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the— well what day and what time did you believe— well I’ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that’s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And— right down— well it’s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson’s (ph), and Dobson’s and on and on and on and so Assembly of God ; Baptized ; Christmas ; church life ; Deep Fork ; Depew ; Dobson ; Faith Bible Church ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glenn Acres ; Highway 66 ; holiday events ; Kelly's Pond ; Lawton, Oklahoma ; Lovett ; Lucille Lott ; Meadow Hill ; Merdel Henry ; Pie Suppers ; Tulsa 1203 Medical Care GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors— JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don’t know if you knew who Doc king was. He— GS: I went to Doc King— black powder ; dentist ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Dr. Yourman ; medical care https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25205437/martin-alfred-yourman Martin Alfred Yourman 1294 Deep Rock Oil Camp GS: Let me, you’ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that’s just right across the road. You know, they— GH: From the cemetery. Deep Rock Camp ; Oil Camp ; Poor Farm Cemetery 1370 Childhood memories GS: Yeah. Okay, and you’ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn’t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don’t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you’re out and it’s hot and there’s a pool— a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn’t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can’t do anything about it. So— California ; Catfish Creek ; colored man ; Earl Hill ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; Lester Hill ; Pat Dillard ; race 1573 Local Businesses and Bootlegging GS: You’re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you’ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. bootlegging ; Cash Junk Store ; Cash's Junk Store ; Cox Bakery ; Dale Donuts ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; grocery store ; Jim Cox ; Lebanese immigrant ; McSude ; O.D butcher ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery ; Pawn Shop ; prohibition ; Thorpe Grocery ; White Lightening https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277645/t-oneyta-thorpe Oneyta Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228193107/sonja-sue-starkey Sonja Sue Thorpe Starkey 2059 Ice Plant GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that’s this boys— GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was— back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they’d have three cool storage ; cooler vats ; Hustlee ; ice plant 2201 High School Years GS: Alright well let’s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren’t good enough but we got tired of that cause’ he wouldn’t ever let us play basketball ; Christmas time ; Curt Thompson ; Earl Hill ; extracurricular activities ; football ; high school ; High school shenanigans ; Jolie Craig ; water balloons ; watermelons ; wrestling 2439 Bristow Natives GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn’t see this backside here. Okay, I think I’ve got that one. You’ve got down here “Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)” JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they’re older. There’s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He’s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those Alcorns ; Bigpond Corner ; Bigponds ; coin purse ; first grade ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Gastons ; Indian purse ; Jerry Riley ; Joe Allen ; Mardel Henry ; Oil Business ; Paynes ; Tigers 2711 High School Activities GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don’t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you— were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh? 39' Ford ; Caroline Foster ; Claremore ; drive main street ; High school ; main street ; Mr. Bow ; Mrs. Foster ; Oscar Meyer ; Youth group 3005 Adult Life and Closing Thoughts GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in ‘54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn’t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and college ; military ; pandemic ; Rossland, New Mexico ; ROTC ; SH Crest Variety Store ; shots ; sin nature ; Stillwater, Oklahoma ; SunRay DX Oil Company ; Texas ; Tulsa, Oklahoma ; Union Calif In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Jim Hurt (JH) Other Persons: Gerald Henshaw (GH) Date of Interview: June 30th 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I' ; m sitting here with Jim Hurt and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. GS: Thank you. We' ; re going to begin mainly with Jim, but Gerald might chime in occasionally if he has something to add to the information that we' ; re doing. So Jim, what was your name at birth? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: And where were you born? JH: Two miles east-- or west of Bristow. Just south of the Deep Rock Oil Camp there at-- near where the old farm used to be. GS: And what old farm is that? JH: Poor Farm. GS: Your-- JH: Poor Farm. GH: Poor Farm JH: The Old Poor Farm GS: Okay. JH: Out by the cemetery-- GS: Yeah. JH: Poor Cemetery out on 66. GS: Yes. JH: My dad used to keep-- keep that up. GS: Oh he did? JH: Yeah. GS: How long ago was that? JH: Oh it was probably when I was in high school. GS: Okay so in the early 50' ; s? JH: 50' ; s, yes. Yeah. GS: That' ; s-- that' ; s interesting. Were you born in the home or in the hospital? JH: In the house. GS: In the house? Was it a midwife or doctor? Do you know? JH: I do not know. GS: Have no idea. What were your parent' ; s names? Oh, let me back up. What day were you born? JH: October the 4th 1934. GS: Thank you. And what were your parents' ; names? Let' ; s start with your mother' ; s maiden name. JH: Amy Hannah Higginbotham. GS: Okay (Chuckling). JH: Evert Hurt. H-U-R-T. GS: Okay, and thank you for spelling that. Do you happen to know about when they were married? JH: No. GS: That' ; s okay. Or where they were married? Were they living here? JH: I don' ; t know. GS: Have no idea. Do you know when they might have come to this area? JH: Well, my grandpa Higginbotham brought his whole family here in-- from Kentucky and because he had a sister that married Mr. Meadows (ph) that lived out south of town so that' ; s why he came here. Because she said, " ; Come here Andy. You need to come here and get rich in the white cotton fields of Oklahoma." ; GS: Oh. JH: And he did come, but he didn' ; t get rich, but-- GS: Ah. JH: --he did lose an eye. Was farming with the corn when a corn stock hit ' ; em in the eye and he was blind in one eye. H.A. Higginbotham. GS: H.A. Higg-- and it' ; s Higginbotham, could you spell that? JH: H-i-g-g-i-n-b-o-t-h-a-m. GS: Thank you very much. I' ; m glad you ask it, ' ; cause I would' ; ve spelled it differently. (Laughter) GS: Alright, how many children did your parents have? JH: Oh, I don' ; t know. (Chuckling) Eight or nine? I don' ; t ever-- GS: Okay. Are your-- are your siblings, and of them still here? JH: No. GS: Okay. What did your father do? JH: He was a tank builder with Deep Rock Oil Company. GS: Okay. Do you happen to know who owned Deep Rock Oil Company back then? JH: No. GS: Yeah, that' ; s okay. JH: Mm-hmm. GS: And what about your mother, was she a stay at home mom? JH: Yes. GS: Very good. Are you married, Jim. JH: No, I' ; m single. GS: Okay. Have you been married? JH: Yes. GS: What was your spouse' ; s name? JH: My children' ; s mothers name was Patricia Marie Hurt, or Jackson from Depew, Oklahoma where Gerald went to find his wife also. GS: Oh cool! JH: And some of us got-- GH: Prettiest girls in the country. GS: Prettiest girls in the country. Well my parents were from there, so I won' ; t disagree. (Laughter) JH: Who was the other guy that friend of yours that lived out there? GH: Stiner. JH: Oh (Chuckling) Joe Stiner. GH: Joe Stiner. Yeah, he married a Depew girl. GS: Well. (Laughter) GS: And how many children did you have? JH: I have three. GS: Three children. What are their names? JH: Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls (ph) and Bruce Allen Hurt (ph), and Brian Kelly Hurt, (ph). GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old-- GS: Oh. JH: --and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother' ; s dad and his-- my grandmother lived across the road. And so he cut the wood, chopped the wood for us to do and he plowed-- made and raised the corn and fixed our garden and so forth some. So he was the help there, but I have many memories of living there. And then I started school there at Lovett (ph) School and they-- a two room school house for first through the eighth grades and we lived there until 1942 when the World War II started. The oldest brother Jack went to the army. My sister, Norma was named Wieberdink, now is deceased, but she quit school and went to work in Tulsa and so it just left me and mom and the three older brothers and the middle brother, Harry who we call Buddy died of-- his appendix burst and had Gangrene and died at the age of fifteen-- GS: Aww. JH: --which is pretty hard on mom. GS: Well yes. JH: So that-- then that left Donnie, older brother just older than me, and myself and then Don was killed in Korea in 1952, so it was just me and mom and I worked. You talked-- asked what my childhood life was like. I worked at O.D Thorpe' ; s Grocery Store. I delivered groceries for him. GS: Alright. JH: And so-- but she made twenty-five dollars a week and she walked to-- to work every day and back home every day. And then-- GS: And what is it she did again? JH: She was a clerk at O.D. Thorpe' ; s grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: And one of the guys that worked there also said she was strong as any man he had ever seen. So-- GS: Wow. JH: --I had no trouble with discipline. I knew how to behave and how she took care of things. But she was a very strong spiritually, mentally, and physically woman and all. So I had a great life. I' ; ve been blessed. GS: So when she left your father, you went with your mother? JH: Oh yes-- GS: Yes. JH: --all five. All five of us did. GS: All five of you did. JH: Yeah. GS: Okay. Okay, I was a little confused on that part. JH. K. GS: Did you have-- did each of the kids have a bedroom? Did you have to share bedrooms growing up? JH: Well like I said, about the time I was eight, we did until then. And I don' ; t remember a whole lot about that-- before that-- but after that it was just mom and I. So-- GS: Yeah. JH: When we were out in the country, I don' ; t remember that much. GS: So were you the youngest? JH: Yes, I was the baby as they call it. GS: Aww, he was the baby. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Was your mom a good cook? JH: Oh. No she didn' ; t cook. She fried everything. Steaks she fried-- (Laughter) JH: Whatever it was, we fried. And yes, she was a good enough cook and all that, but yeah. GS: Alright. (Laughter) GS: Where did she shop for groceries? JH: At O.D. Thorpe' ; s. Where she-- GS: At O.D. Thorpe' ; s. (Laughter) JH: Yes. GS: What all did O.D. Thorpe' ; s sell? JH: Everything. He had-- he bought the wholesale was-- I forget the wholesalers name here but we-- we had their own shelves. And O.D. was his own butcher. He had his own butchers back in the back and then everything was mostly on credit, and you' ; d just come in and bought and he wrote it down on the ticket and whatever they bought you put that in a file. Then at the end of the month when the people got their poor checks, or people got money, they come in and pay off that bill and everything. But it' ; s the same old thing with the green beans and corn and whatever and you had pop in the icebox that you raised up the lid and there was water in there with ice in it and you got your bottle of pop out and you drank your bottle of pop. But memories of the grocery store, people used to come and even sit on the ledge out beside there on Saturdays and whatever. And there' ; s some things, I won' ; t tell you about all that went on when people got drunk-- GS: Oh yeah. GH: (Chuckling) JH: Somebody would get drunk and the police would come get ' ; em and put ' ; em-- wouldn' ; t want to get in the car, and they' ; d kind of push ' ; em in the car and they' ; d hold on like this and they' ; d throw-- just slam the door on its fingers. GS: Oh my word. JH: Lets don' ; t go through all that. My memories-- GH: I don' ; t know-- (Laughter) GS: Talk about police brutality, huh? (Laughter) GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut-- JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And one day several of us boys-- four or five of us young guys, they took us in the back of a truck and took us down there and they' ; d already plowed up the peanuts and they were laying over and dried in the sun. And then they had poles that they had cut down trees and trimmed it off and stuck the poles upright in the ground, and we would then go by and pick up those peanuts that were laying there that were drying and we' ; d go and stick ' ; em-- stack ' ; em around that pole and where they would dry more and more until they were ready to take ' ; em into the peanut mill and have ' ; em harvested or-- GS: Okay. JH: --so forth. GS: And where was that peanut mill? JH: That' ; s Second-- GS: Between Second-- JH: --Second GS: --and Third. JH: No, well it was actually at the corner of Second and-- or no, Third and Main. GH: Fourth, third, yeah. GS: Yes. Yes. JH: Second-- GS: Third and Main. GH: Third and Main. JH: That' ; s the one that Bill Bethel bought later on. Right. GS: Okay. JH: But then the woman sat at it and they had the big belt where the peanuts come down through there and they would pick out the little rocks and things like that and all. And then after they were shelled and running down through there. So, yeah-- GS: Okay. JH: --It employed several women and for many years. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah. GS: I didn' ; t realize that women worked in the peanut factory. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s-- that' ; s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole-- the tornado thing is still there, but the building-- there' ; s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry-- GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry-- JH: Riley. GH: Riley. GS: Oh! I knew Jerry Riley. GH: Yeah. JH: He was my very first friend and he was a year behind me so whenever I went to the first grade, and then I got to the second grade and then he come to first grade, so I think there was two teachers. One through sixth or something, then seven through eighth in the other room. But when we' ; d go out to exercise and all I' ; d say, " ; Well ask ' ; em if I can go with ya." ; I was in second grade, so they did. So then come December of my second grade we was ready to move to town after I said my brother had went to the army. To the war and Norma Lee had went, my sister had gone to Tulsa, so we moved to town and they told Amy, " ; You better put Jimmy back in the first grade" ; So I' ; ve lost a year. GS: Aww. JH: But my birthday is in October the 4th and that year that I' ; d started, you had to be six on or before the day it started. So I was-- so I was two years behind school. That' ; s why Gerald was only seventeen and I was almost nineteen by the time I graduated. (Laughter) GH: They put me in before I got-- my birthday' ; s October the 11th and my sister brought me up and put me in Edison School before I was supposed to because I was the only boy left at the house. JH: You didn' ; t-- may I interject? He didn' ; t have a mother, she had passed. GH: Yeah, my mother passed. GS: Aww. GH: Yeah. JH: He was raised-- GS: So you were raised by your sister? GH: Sister and dad. JH: A whole bunch of ' ; em. GH: Yeah. (Laughter) GH: Had four sisters, yeah. GS: Oh. GH: Twins and younger and older. GS: Okay. GH: Older, Oldest sister pretty well looked after us. You know as far as-- GS: Very good. Yeah. JH: But anyway, go ahead. GH: Where was I? JH: (Laughter) GH: Oh I was telling you about Edison school. My first-- they took me and I was so young, I guess. I cried the whole day. (Laughter) GH: And Mrs. Liss (ph) which was the teacher-- GS: Yes. GH: --she took me under her arm and kinda took care of me for that day. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Aww. GH: And the next day I was fine, and everything went on-- GS: Well sure. You were probably only four or five. (Laughter) GH: Well I was five. GS: That' ; s pretty young. GH: Coming in off the farm, you know-- GS: Yeah. GH: --by yourself out there. GS: Sure. GH: Got all these people running around there. Man it was-- it was scary. GS: I bet it was for a little guy. GH: It was scary. I still remember it, that' ; s how scary it was. (Laughter) GS: So, when you went to grade school here in Bristow, was it one of Washington or Edison-- JH: Edison. I went to Edison-- GS: Edison. JH: --Mrs. Farbro (ph) was one of my first teachers and all and she was pretty tough on ya. She kept things straight and all-- GS: Alright. JH: --yeah. GH: I went to both of ' ; em, Washington and Edison. GS: Okay. Okay. GH: I remember the castle-- little castle store down there at the end of the Washington playground. GS: Uh-huh. GH: We' ; d go down there and get lunch. GS: Oh okay. JH: (Laughter) GS: Did they not have the cafeteria then? GH: I don' ; t know man-- JH: I think you brought lunch if-- GH: Well we brought lunch if you could, but-- GS: Yeah. GH: You could go down there and buy a soda pop from Mr. Castle. JH: (Laughter) GS: Okay, so after you finished grade-- do you have any memories of grade school? Were you active in any kind of-- JH: No-- GS: --activities? JH: --one memory I had, the Cakes (ph) were teachers there. And Mrs. Cake (ph) but then there is another teacher, Mrs. Bean (ph) that couldn' ; t hear very well and all. So one of the guys brought a-- in the sixth grade brought a water pistol and he was shooting it like that and hiding it and you know, it' ; s on the black board when it hit, [indecipherable] and she' ; d turn around and do like this and turn like this and try to figure out who was doing it. GS: Oh! JH: That' ; s one of the memories, other than that no. It' ; s just school and on the playground where you' ; d learn how to-- GH: Survive. JH: --defend yourself or whatever. GS: What kind of games did you play on the playground? JH: Well the boys played football against the-- GH: We played-- we played that " ; Red Rover, Red Rover-- GS: Yes! GH: " ; Let somebody come over." ; Yeah! GS: Yes! JH: Oh! (Chuckling) I forgot about that. (Laughter) GH: Oh I' ; ll tell ya, they try to break the-- break the deal. Yeah. GS: Yep (Chuckling) and it really hurt when you couldn' ; t break through. GH: Oh it hit you hard, yes. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Okay, I' ; m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about-- I' ; m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the-- well what day and what time did you believe-- well I' ; ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that' ; s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And-- right down-- well it' ; s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson' ; s (ph), and Dobson' ; s and on and on and on and so I' ; ve always been a Christian. So-- and I was raised at Freewill Baptist Church and I grew up and become a Southern Baptist and finally I got even grown up more than that and now I' ; m just a Christian going into an independent church and have a great church life in Edmond, Oklahoma. Faith Bible Church. GS: Very good. Very Good! (Laughter) GS: Get a plug in for Faith Bible Church there. (Laughter) When were you baptized? Can you tell me, were you baptized in a pond-- JH: When I was about in the-- GS: --a river? JH: No, I was in First Baptist Church of Lawton, Oklahoma when I was in the military there and I was kind of convicted. In fact, when I finally decided before that I was married and living in Tulsa after I got out of high school. And I was a smoker and I decided that I wanted to live for Christ and all, so on a Sunday morning we' ; re sitting there and reading the newspaper before we went to church and all and I said, " ; Did you notice anything, Pat?" ; And she said, " ; Well no. What?" ; I said, " ; Well I quit smoking!" ; Well she didn' ; t know it. (Laughter) JH: I thought that was gonna make me alright, but I-- I' ; ve grown a lot in the Lord since then-- GS: Right. JH: --and all. And had a great life. GS: Discovered you didn' ; t have to quit that smoking to become a Christian. JH: (Chuckling) No, but I did. GS: (Chuckling) Probably the best. JH: Yeah. GS: So it says here you were baptized at Kelly' ; s Pond (ph)? JH: No not me-- GS: No. Oh. JH: That' ; s where Freewill Baptist-- that' ; s where-- that' ; s [Indecipherable]-- right there' ; s the pond. Right out there. Do you know where Kelly' ; s Pond (ph) is? GS: I do not unless-- wait a minute. West of Bristow on Highway 66? JH: Do you know where the green-- meadow green-- what' ; s it called? GS: Meadow Hill JH: Meadow Hill is? GS: Mm-hmm. JH: Well just past there. You go up like that and there' ; s a pond right off over there. There' ; s another-- GS: Glenn Acres. Glenn Acres is what you' ; re thinking of. JH: Okay, so past the-- GS: My mother was baptized in that same pond. JH: You' ; re kidding me! What church did she go to? GS: I think it was Assembly of God at the time in Depew. JH: Really? GS: Uh-huh. And I did not learn that until recently. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Yeah, after she passed. GH: Right across the street from that, there was a pool hall-- not a pool hall, but a joint. GS: Oh. GH: On the south side of that. GS: Yes, now when I was growing up it was like a little café. GH: Yeah, same. GS: I think I ate there once. JH: Gerald Lee and I use to take our girlfriends back over to Depew and then comin' ; home we' ; d-- GH: Yeah. JH: --stop and get a hamburger. She' ; d find out later, " ; Why can' ; t you stop and get a hamburger taking us home?" ; (Laughter) GS: Yeah! I agree. I agree! Savin' ; a little bit money, weren' ; t you there? (Laughter) GS: Well alright, can you tell me anything about holiday events at the church or any special memories you have at the church? JH: Christmas time especially, you always had your little chocolate thing with this white sugar inside of it, and all. And we also had coconut that they give us. Coconut-- GS: Coconuts? JH: --and things that-- your little Christmas things at Christmas time that I don' ; t think they do that stuff anymore. But yeah, Christmas-- GS: Like a bag of apples-- JH: And also-- GS: --and oranges and-- GH: Ribbon candy. GS: Yes, ribbon candy. JH: And more funnier-- fun than that, was Pie Suppers. GS: Yes. JH: We had the Pie Supper at the Lovett (ph) School and one of the girls that was probably fourteen or so [Indecipherable] with my grandpa who was quite, you know. He was old. He was probably in his sixties-- bought her pie and she had to eat with him. And I remember how it hurt her feelings, she had to eat with this old man. GS: (Laughter) JH: That was at the Lovett (ph) Schoolhouse and all. And Merdel Henry (ph) and-- Merdel Henry and Lucille Lott (ph) was the first girls that I kind of liked out there and-- GS: Aww. JH: --there' ; s memories of those things. GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors-- JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don' ; t know if you knew who Doc king was. He-- GS: I went to Doc King-- GH: Oh man I-- GS: A time or two. JH: Oh you must be old! Or mature. GS: I' ; m getting there! GH: Yeah, he was pretty tough. And then-- GS: He was-- GH: The dentist-- I can' ; t remember his name-- GS: Your-- Yourman ? GH: Yourman. GS: Dr. Yourman. GH: That guy, he pulled my teeth. Pulled my wisdom teeth. That' ; s the reason I' ; m so dumb. GS: (Laughter). GH: He pulled those wisdom teeth and he got up on my chest-- GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And-- and-- oh yeah. And pulled ' ; em. There wasn' ; t anything wrong with ' ; em. He just pulled ' ; em out. Pulled all of ' ; em out of there. JH: He needed the money. GH: Yeah, I guess. (Laughter) GH: Couldn' ; t have got much money at that time. You know, but-- yeah. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: Last time I seen ole Doc King, he was going down middle of Main Street and everybody was getting out of his way. GS: Oh. GH: I think he had a Cadillac or-- JH: No, it was a big ole Buick-- GH: Buick. Buick, yeah right. Yeah. JH: Great big-- GH: He' ; d drive right down the middle of the street. That' ; s the last time I saw him. GS: Did you ever get any of that black powder from Dr. King? GH: No. JH: No. GS: Oh, every time we went, he' ; d give us this black powder in a paper. I think it was a laxative, but I mean you did not go to the doctor-- GH: Oh yeah. GS: --without getting that black powder. (Laughter) GH: I used to have [indecipherable]. GS: Oh. GH: That' ; s what they gave me every Saturday. GS: Oh my goodness. Yucky. GH: [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Alright. What do you remember about the city of Bristow growing up? JH: Oh. GS: Just any-- any kind of-- Let me back up a little bit. JH: Okay. GS: Let me, you' ; ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that' ; s just right across the road. You know, they-- GH: From the cemetery. JH: The Poor Farm Cemetery and across the road' ; s Deep Rock Camp, which there' ; s still some houses there. GS: Okay. JH: And you' ; re supposed to be able to get from there down to the hundred and-- whatever it' ; s called-- 41st street now, which the Jones' ; s own all of that. GS: Yes. JH: I drove down through there the other day and they own forever and ever and ever and ever down through there. She lives near where the-- your Poor Farm was. And she said there' ; s actually a few rocks or monument things out there today and all. GS: Okay. JH: Anyway, Deep Rock Camp' ; s just a place where that the people lived and they had-- you know, you had all the oil wells-- GH: Well oil-- JH: and [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah, the oil camp. GS: So the men that worked for the company lived in that camp? GH: Yes. JH: Yes, well and-- yeah. GS: And their families. JH: Right. Yes. GS: Yeah. GH: Yeah. They still out there. Some of the kids still live there. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah there' ; s still houses down there. GH: Yeah. GS: Yeah. Okay, and you' ; ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn' ; t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don' ; t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you' ; re out and it' ; s hot and there' ; s a pool-- a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn' ; t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can' ; t do anything about it. So-- GS: Well and they couldn' ; t see under the water either. (Laughter) JH: Well, [Indecipherable] we had to come out some time. GS: Uh-Oh (Laughter) JH: Along that line, another memory speaking of California, they always had to stop if you were in the crosswalk or you-- it wasn' ; t crosswalk. If you wanted to cross the street, they had to stop in California and let the pedestrians go by. GS: Yes. JH: So, us young boys then twelve or thirteen was standing on the edge and we' ; d see a California tag and we' ; d step out like that so they' ; d have to stop and we would walk across it and we' ; d do the same thing coming back the other way. Boys were ornery then. (Laughter) GS: (Chuckling) Yeah! I think some of them were. Alright now, this Pat Dillard? JH: That was a colored man that-- that thing is the other day I was talking about-- I don' ; t know how you' ; re offended with the word " ; nigger" ; today, but that was not a negative term growing up, that was an identity. Because I had a-- I worked with a negro man in the oil business and an Indian that I worked with also asked him, " ; Well are you black or what?" ; He said, " ; Black' ; s a color." ; Black is not-- you know-- GS: A race. It' ; s not a race. JH: Right, so there' ; s nothing wrong with me with Negro, and a lot of it' ; s on your birth certificates. But now, Nigger was just a common term back then and we had an old-- Pat Dillard (ph) was as you call them today, a black man. My older brother' ; s opossum hunted with him at night and all. GS: Uh-huh. JH: In fact, I used the word Nigger and my older brother said, " ; Oh Pat, I' ; m sorry." ; He said, " ; That' ; s alright, he' ; s just a little boy." ; or whatever. So you know, it' ; s not-- to me it was never a derogatory term it was an identification term of who this person was. Because we had another guy that was retarded called Nigger Jim, and he wore pitiful old sewn together clothes and-- GS: Aww. GH: He' ; d be at Main Street all the time, yeah. JH: And even his shoes and things were sometimes sewn together with this old rubber boots or whatever he could find. The Gold Eagle Café was there at Sixth and Main and they always threw some foods and things away, and he would dig through the barrels for food-- GS: Aww. JH: --and things and he just lived out what? Two or three miles out east of town and he just lived with one group and wanted another and all you know. GS: Right. Right. JH: Yeah, so-- GS: It' ; s a shame. JH: Yeah. GS: Yeah, I think the word became offensive-- JH: She' ; s [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: --I can' ; t. I can' ; t. JH: That' ; s okay. GS: But you know my parents, they said it. You know, but no. I can' ; t say it. I' ; m sorry. JH: No you' ; re not. That' ; s fine. GS: Okay. JH: Just in case you don' ; t make me go to hell ' ; cause I say it. GS: No. No, because you' ; re not using it as a derogatory term. JH: No, no, no, no, no, no. GS: You' ; re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you' ; ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. JH: And so on-- at the end of the month they always got their money and they' ; d come to town and some of ' ; em didn' ; t have wagons and all. A lot of ' ; em rode their wagons in around behind the alley behind Gold Eagle Café and Thorpe' ; s Grocery and Cash' ; s Junk Store and whatever GH: [Indecipherable] JH: Anyway, I would take ' ; em home because they had a panel truck, O.D. had a panel truck and I' ; d deliver ' ; em home down south of Bristow and then there' ; s a couple of colored women one time that we had to squash together in the front seat, but I took them home out by where our high school is now. They lived there. GS: Yes. JH: And so I' ; ve got memories of that, going in their house. And their-- their-- everything about them smells different just a different odor. What they cook and collard greens or whatever and all, but anyway. GS: Right. JH: I delivered groceries for that and so and just learned how people-- a little bit then how people are you know. GS: Right. JH: Nothing like what they are today. GS: No. JH: But anyway, yeah I have some memories of that. And watching O.D. butcher the things and make hamburger meat and watch all that-- GS: Oh. JH: --and how that was done, and things. And so, yeah. O.D. and Oneyta-- or Oneyta were good people and their oldest daughter just passed recently and I left a thing in here because I don' ; t know where you-- GS: I saw that in there and I didn' ; t know what that was about. JH: Well I don' ; t know whether you have the newspaper in Bristow anymore or not? GS: Yes, we do. JH: Well I tried to get that thing to Sherian through the electronics, and I never could, but I left that here. I think people need to know that, that their oldest daughter, that was her. GS: Well we can put that in there. JH: Yeah. GS: We can put that in there. JH: I' ; d like that. Well thank you. GS: Yeah, we' ; ll put it on our Facebook page. JH: Okay, yeah. GS: Okay-- JH: Now your Facebook page is which one, there' ; s forty thousand of ' ; em. GS: Okay. Bristow Historical Society. It' ; s not History of Bristow. That is not us. JH: Right. GS: It' ; s-- JH: Bristow-- GS: No. JH: No, not that. Not Bristow-- GS: Not any of those. The Bristow His-- well no, that' ; s different. JH: Which-- which-- GS: Bristow Historical Society. JH: T-O-W Historical. GS: Now you' ; ve got written down here-- JH: Now are you-- how do I get to be a member of that? GS: You just-- JH: I sent a check down here for something another and-- GS: That makes you a member of us. Of Bristow Historic Society-- JH: But how do I get on the-- on the internet? GS: On Facebook, it' ; s on Facebook. JH: It' ; s on Facebook-- GS: Uh-huh. JH: --but don' ; t you have to join? GS: You know-- JH: Let' ; s talk about that later. GS: I don' ; t think that you do. I don' ; t think that you do, but we can talk about that later. JH: Yeah, let' ; s talk about that later. GS: Okay, tell me about the Cash Junk Store. JH: Cash Junk Store was everything that somebody didn' ; t want. Pieces of lamps, farming equipment, hats, coats, old stuff. It was junk. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And he would-- you' ; d take-- you needed something, an old iron or whatever or an antique type thing and take it in and he' ; d give you money and he either-- you could come back and pay him more money and get it back-- (Laughter) JH: --or, you could leave it there and he had the money and you could go in and buy stuff. GS: So it was just an old day-- GH: Pawn Shop. GS: --resale-- Pawn Shop or resale, yeah. JH: Kind of, yeah. GS: Yeah. Now, I have heard the name Mcsude (ph). I know he was a Lebanese immigrant here. JH: Yes. GS: And you' ; ve got written down here Dale Donuts. What can you tell me about Mcsude (ph) and Dale Donuts? JH: Okay, if you remember who had the bakery when you were here earlier on? GS: I don' ; t remember. JH: Jim-- GH: Umm. Uh-- JH: My brother in law. GH: Yeah. JH: Anyway he had the-- they had the Donut Shop right next to Silvers store. Jim Cox (ph). GS: Okay. Yes! Cox Bakery. JH: That' ; s it! GS: I remember Cox Bakery. JH: His-- his wife and my sister--my wife was sisters. GS: Okay! JH: Anyway, Old Man Mcsude (ph) would go up there and buy day old donuts and take them down to this little thing he called grocery store. It was dark in there and he had stuff that was older than whatever. I don' ; t know who bought it there or what else went on because a lot of people, several people in Bristow probably loaned money just like Mrs. Bishop did that had her place up by the mill there and you loaned the money out and they paid back. But anyway, I think-- I still don' ; t know what all they did. He had an old dark grocery store in there and he' ; d just sit around and had a son named Larry. I think he was a pretty sharp guy or whatever, but-- GS: Wasn' ; t a really going establishment. JH: (Chuckling) Well, it was a grocery store-- GH: It was there (chuckling) JH: --but didn' ; t have much business-- GS: Yeah. JH: A lot of traffic. GS: Yeah. JH: Because you had the Golden-- Golden Eagle, then you had a Bishop, which is not any of these Bishops now, a grocery store, and then you had Thorpe' ; s Grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: Then you had the Café I think was the-- GH: Blue-- JH: --Titus' ; s café. [Indecipherable] Café, then anyway. Let' ; s go ahead with whatever. GS: Okay, well you' ; ve got now, Gold Eagle Café I think that was the one that was run by Carolyn now Webb and I can' ; t place her maiden name, but her parents I think-- JH: Could' ; ve been-- GS: --ran that. JH: --I don' ; t know, that' ; s a long-- GS: You' ; ve got hamburgers, fifteen cents? JH: Yep! GS: Did you eat there often? JH: Well you didn' ; t eat there, but you bought it and ate it on walking down the street or whatever. (Laughter) GS: Okay. JH: Yes. No. Yeah, they had-- they had stools and booths and all. But no, if you wanna talk about eating, you can go back up to-- The Lebanese pretty well was very influential in settling Bristow and Depew-- GS: Yes, they were. JH: --and many other places. But another Lebanese that I' ; ve been thinking about a long time now and I can' ; t think of his name. Had the best chili with-- GH: I' ; ve been tryna think of his-- GS: Korkames? Korkames? JH: No. Well-- GS: Not Mr. Korkames? GH: This-- this guy, you could buy. You got a bowl of chili for I think fifteen cents. GS: Okay. GH: Then went next door to the bakery shop and get a donut for ten cents and then you' ; d be home [Indecipherable] GS: Alright! GH: But he had the-- he that chili. I was tryna think of his name the other day and I-- JH: I' ; ll think of it in a few minutes because I thought of it the other day. He lived-- GH: I never thought of it. JH: He lived across the street from Junior High School. GH: Okay. JH: Anyway, lets don' ; t waste all day long on it. GS: Alrighty, did we did the twenties was prohibition. Later on after that, people would sell liquor that they made. Do you have any knowledge of bootlegging in this country? GH: White Lightening. GS: White Lightening huh? JH: I remember buying it. Did you buy it? GH: Oh yeah! Yeah. There' ; s a guy about three miles south on 48 and you could go down there for a dollar and buy a pint-- a pint of that White Lightening. GS: Oh. JH: How do you know you could do that? GH: ' ; Cause I went down there and bought it! (Laughter) GH: And-- and the reason I-- after that I never went again. There' ; s some others several boys together and my dad worked for the county at the night watchman down at the county barn JH: Oh yeah. GH: And we didn' ; t have any money, so I went in there to see if I could get a dollar from him and he gave me a dollar and we went down there and bought that liquor and from that time on I said, " ; I' ; m not buying anymore." ; I was so ashamed-- JH: Oh yeah. GH: --spend that dollar for the liquor and he worked so hard for it. (Laughter) GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that' ; s this boys-- GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was-- back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they' ; d have three hundred pounds of ice in a vat that was-- it was down in this ammonia and all this other stuff that froze the water. JH: Ice water. GH: So you' ; d pull that up out of there, take it down at the cool storage, cut it up into fifties, hundreds, twenty-five pounds and then it stayed in there. And then you sold it on the dock. GS: Okay. GH: And then the come by-- people going to work, they bring their ice cans, we put that ice in that twelve and a half pounds of ice for twenty cents. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And put that ice in those buckets. I mean in those ice cans. GS: Uh-huh. GH: Yeah. JH: But didn' ; t you deliver it to houses also? GH: Oh yes! I still got money-- well it used to be color, color town. People still owe me money down there. Perhaps you already know this, but they put a sign-- they had a little sign that had twenty-five, hundred pound, fifty pound, seventy-five pound and if they wanted that, they' ; d-- what they wanted they' ; d put it in the window. GS: Oh! GH: So when you drove by through the to [Indecipherable] see what sign and you take it, fifty pound, put it on your back, take it down there, put it in the ice box. GS: Oh my goodness GH: And they' ; d leave the money on top of the ice box. Well sometimes the money wouldn' ; t be there. GS: Oh! GH: But rather than carry the ice back, put it back in-- GS: You leave the ice GH: You just left it and then sometimes they' ; d pay you the next time, right? JH: Yeah (Laughter) GS: Right. Sometimes they didn' ; t, huh? GH: Sometimes didn' ; t. But then my other story about that is that [Indecipherable] that I was telling you just before-- GS: Yes! GH: That new way [Indecipherable] three thousand pounds of ice GS: Wow GH: With the cooler vats, that they' ; s making that [Indecipherable] in. GS: Oh wow! GH: And you had to carry this hundred pounds on your back, had a little ol' ; step rine (ph) you just put up, you had to turn around and drop it off into this vat. GS: Wow! GH: And that was a pretty good-- pretty good task. GS: I just imagine GH: Yeah we delivered out in the country, deliver ice in the country. Pull the ice, worked at the dock, and I did all that for the ice company. GS: You must' ; ve been a strong young man. GH: Ah, well, I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: Would be the question, or needy, I don' ; t know which JH: Needy (Laughter) GS: Alright well let' ; s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren' ; t good enough but we got tired of that cause' ; he wouldn' ; t ever let us play GS: Oh JH: So he and I both quit and went out for wresting, and we both got to wrestle the first thing we beat out whatever so, but for football I went out the whole time for the comradery of it cause' ; I only got to play one play GS: Aww JH: And they finally sent me in and they- we punted the ball and then I run down there and I smeared that guy good and they give a penalty and the coach called me back over to sit down and I said " ; Well what' ; s wrong" ; and well he signaled safe call GS: Oh (Laughter) JH: So, I did. I went ahead and stayed on with football but just cause' ; uh, to be with the other people and all. GS: Right JH: But wrestling I was a little bit better than an average wrestler I guess. But it was a great, great sport to-- to teach ya not dirty how to do things dirty, but how to protect yourself and [Indecipherable], self-discipline GH: What was that coaches name, you remember? JH: Curt Thompson (ph) GH: Curt Thompson (ph), boy yeah he was a nice guy GS: Oh my goodness, he was GH: Yeah, like he said he was more of a teacher than he was a coach GS: He must' ; ve been pretty young when we taught you JH: Mm, yeah he was probably- GH: He was probably in WWII JH: Had he? GH: Yeah! Well he was Jack and he, ya know, him and his two younger sisters were, we were family friends with them JH: Yeah GH: Yeah, no he' ; d would' ; ve been to WWII I think and come back GS: In the late sixties he was my seventh grade, I believe JH: Science GS: Science teacher JH: Yeah GS: Seventh or eighth grade GH: Yeah he taught science, yeah JH: So he knew her GS: Yeah, I knew- I love him! I just thought he was a great teacher JH: Aw yeah GS: I think it was seventh grade JH: Yeah GS: Yeah, okay any other high school shenanigans? JH: Oh I can' ; t tell about them (Laughter) JH: Were you with us when we borrowed the watermelons that night? GH: Oh yeah, yeah, we went south of town there JH: We were needing-- gonna have a senior trip so we needed some money for this senior trip so Jolie Craig (ph), who was a little bit ornery and all he borrowed, wonder if I can' ; t stand to think of the cowboy' ; s name. Anyway we borrowed his pickup truck and went down south, five or six miles south where one of the guys knew where some watermelon patches were GS: Uh-oh JH: And we got down in there and we got our watermelons and started loading them up, about that time the lights turned on (Laughter) JH: Car down there, he [Indecipherable] all of us but one jumped in the truck and took off, and one we made go through the woods and all we had to go back to Bristow, come back down later on and drive through the woods and find him ' ; cause he had walked four or five miles. GH: [Indecipherable] JH: I don' ; t remember which one that was, but anyway we didn' ; t get to sell our watermelons at the fair and make money GH: Another time we was-- Christmas time GS: Yes GH: we were going up this hill over there by-- coming out of [Indecipherable], you come up that hill. Well, we were going and these guys had these water balloons JH: Uh-oh GH: And they threw these balloons into this car that was coming down that hill GS: Oh dear GH: Busted that lady' ; s windshield GS: Oh no GH: Ah yeah, and-- but that was not hardly the worst part of it, the worst part of it: we had to spend our money, Christmas money, to fix that GS: To fix the windshield GH: the windshield GS: Yeah, yeah. I' ; m guessing you guys were baptized after these events (Laughter) GH: No I was before that. I was baptized before that. I just didn' ; t know it but GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn' ; t see this backside here. Okay, I think I' ; ve got that one. You' ; ve got down here " ; Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)" ; JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they' ; re older. There' ; s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He' ; s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those girls like I said they' ; d- night and day they kept that tractor running and all. They lived just, whatever. And there' ; s-- [Inaudible] JH: Open that and see if there' ; s not some more pictures of stuff in there maybe GS: I think we put them away JH: Anyways, but then the Alcorns (ph) and what was the other ones? GS: Bigponds (ph) and Tigers (ph) JH: Yeah, the Indians have been around here forever. Like I said, Jerry Riley (ph) was my first-- he was creek and his-- I don' ; t remember he had some half brothers and sisters and all, and he had that little younger sister too for, I don' ; t think she' ; s alive though anymore either, probably. But anyway yeah we were [Indecipherable] and we all went to school together and everything and all, but-- ' ; cause I remember them at our pie suppers and our Christmas parties and things like that. So we were all a big, big big community out there. GH: The Bigponds had it and still got a name down there in Bigpond corner. GS: Yes, yes GH: And had a store down there GS: Uh-huh. I' ; ve heard of Bigpond corner from my father GH: South of [Indecipherable], yeah GS: Yeah GH: They had a big JH: I' ; d almost forgotten about that GH: They had a big store down there JH: We' ; ll talk about that later then. Yeah okay, no I just thought about memories that I' ; ve of there. Oh, what store is that and now, across the street where you turn to go into the Alcorns on the other side of it is Joe Allen, this big Indian guy, that big two story house is still there and I remember when I was little so it had to be in the late forties. GH: No, the thirties JH: Anyway, the time before I was eight years old, I would carry a jug of water in a tote sack, a feed sack from the cow feed and all with newspapers wrapped around it all wet and all and I' ; d take it down to where Joe Allen' ; s place where my older brothers were harvesting hay, bailing hay, and take cool water to them. GS: Awww JH: So we walked barefooted in the hot sand GH: Oh yeah JH: And you walk kinda fast GH: [Indecipherable] cotton than the sand (Laughter) GS: Okay now right here GH: Tigers GS: You' ; ve got written " ; Indian Purse" ; JH: Oh GS: Can you tell me about that? JH: Well, I' ; ve got all that stuff somewhere is it not, look in through that folder GS: This is my folder, it' ; s not in here JH: Oh your folder GS: Yeah JH: Hmm JH: Uh-oh. Oh I didn' ; t give you all of your stuff, didn' ; t you, did you get that GS: I just glanced at it JH: Okay that- that' ; s not it then. Okay. Yeah see, this Mardel Henry (ph) and the other one I mentioned Lucy (ph) a lot gave me a little Indian purse GS: Oh I see! There is it! JH: There it is! GS: Oh I wish we could take a picture of it for the interview. Oh how neat! And I guess they handmade it? JH: I guess GH: Not sure JH: Who knows GS: Yeah I bet they did GH: I' ; m sure they did JH: And I don' ; t know which one of them did it and all but you know, in the first grade you' ; re just kinda flirting, you don' ; t know (Laughter) GS: It' ; s a cute little leather uh, like a coin purse JH: Coin purse but you couldn' ; t put very many coins in it GS: No it won' ; t hold much, it has a snap clasp GH: Didn' ; t have much GS: And-- and they' ; ve put beads through wires and loops coming around the edges. JH: Uh-huh GS: On one side, the beads have come off, but, well that' ; s got to be pretty old (Laughter) JH: My nametags from military, and I went through a memory of [Indecipherable] GH: Oh JH: You' ; ve got two name tags, you' ; ve got one and then GH: Dog tags JH: you' ; ve got the little chains on the other ones GH: Dog Tags JH: Dog Tags GH: Yeah JH: And the reason you got two is one of them you stuck the thing between your teeth, and the other they took off [Indecipherable] for identification GS: Oh JH: And left that there GS: I did not realize that [Indecipherable] GS: Okay what about the Gastons (ph) and the Paynes (ph) at slick? JH: The Gastons (ph) I grew up with them and I think there' ; s some of them still out there maybe the younger ones and the oil business and all, but this is just who was in out Freewill Baptist church that' ; s a lot of members of that and all GS: Sure JH: [Indecipherable] GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don' ; t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you-- were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh?JH: Not really, didn' ; t have core organized things like that then GS: Okay JH: Ya know, we just had families that had things in common and whatever GS: Okay, well lets skips back to high school. What did you do-- What did you do for fun in High School? JH: Flirted GS: You flirted, like most high school kids (Laughter) JH: And knocked the books out of a guy' ; s hand, and then, it' ; s written down here too GS: You weren' ; t a bully, were you JH: He' ; s walkin' ; around like this- No I was not a bully, but I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: I remember my high school year, last year in high school, I came to town every night. Every night, for the high school year ; even Sunday. GS: And what brought you to town? GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Oh! GH: And we drove main street GS: Yes GH: Called drive main street, you drive up there, turned around down there by fourth street, and back up. Every night of my senior year, I did that. JH: And Gerald had an old 39' ; ford GH: 39' ; ford JH: Coop. And one time we drove to Sapulpa in that coop GH: Yeah JH: And it took a gallon of gas there and back, but it took about three gallons of oil ' ; cause he' ; d burned a lot of oil GS: Oh goodness (Laughter) JH: But his brother Oscar was- GH: Meyer JH: Was a mechanic GH: Meyer JH: Not when GH: Meyer JH: Meyer (ph), Meyer (ph) and so he had drained the oil out of his little car since Gerald using his car cause his car burned a lot of oil GH: It was a ninety horse motor GS: Oh my goodness JH: Okay where were we? GS: Okay well we' ; re talking about school life GH: Oh GS: And, anything else about your high school, like maybe teachers that were influential, or a mess or favorite, or any memories of that? JH: We had some really good, really smart teachers. Our algebra teacher was great, and our science teacher Mr. [Indecipherable] I can' ; t remember GH: I thought I just looked at it yesterday JH: Yeah, okay but anyway yeah we had a lot of good teachers, shop teacher was great shop teacher. And that' ; s one that I used to, till I got older I' ; ve still did wood work, I love wood work and all that. Had good school members and-- GH: I had a Mrs. Foster (ph), although Mr. Bow (ph) was the [Indecipherable] JH: Oh yeah he was an agriculture GH: Yeah, yeah, Mrs. Foster was our, what do you call it? Group leader, what do you call it? GS: Okay GH: Sponsors GS: Sponsors GH: She went with us on a senior trip GS: Okay JH: Oh, Mrs. Foster GS: Now, is that the Arthur Fosters (ph)? JH: No GH: No, it' ; s the- what was their first name? Pauline? Pauline? GS: Pauline Foster (ph)? JH: No it wasn' ; t Pauline- Samson GH: Samson GS: Pauline Samson (ph) GH: No JH: He was a GH: No he was, he was, he was chemistry teacher. But I' ; m talking about Mrs. Foster. Caroline' ; s her name GS: Caroline Foster (ph) GH: Caroline Foster (ph) JH: Oh Caroline, [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh, yeah and Arthur (ph), yes GH: Yes GS: Did you, did you go to Tulsa or Oklahoma City much when you lived here? Did you ever take the train there? JH: I took the train from here in about the sixth grade up somewhere to Claremore and where I first learned about RC GS: And what is that? JH: You don' ; t know what RC is? RC Cola? GH: Oh yeah RC Cola JH: Would you give me one of those RCs? GH: Yeah JH: And a moon pie GS: Oh yes (Laughter) JH: Yes that was- that' ; s a long time ago, but yes that' ; s-- I rode the train from here up to Claremore or wherever it was, then came back and all. GS: Okay JH: So yeah. GS: Did you have your own car? JH: No, not until I was already, we were in High School I didn' ; t, or not GH: I don' ; t think you' ; d had a car JH: No, Donny or whoever my brothers [Indecipherable] GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Right JH: He bought one before he went to Korea, and I knew it was from momma ' ; cause we hadn' ; t had a car since GS: Oh JH: Way back after we moved to town in ' ; 42, we had it for a year or two then she sold it. We walked-- GS: Walked everywhere JH: She walked every morning to Thorpe' ; s grocery back home. We walked to the Freewill Baptist church back home, we walked wherever we went GS: Sure JH: And like somebody else GS: It' ; s a small town JH: Yeah, right. GH: I' ; ll tell ya a story about him ruining my car. GS: Uh-oh GH: And [Indecipherable] yeah. I didn' ; t know what, so it had fluid drive. [Indecipherable], we went out at the ball-- out at the football field. He went out there in the truck and started running, making loops JH: No that' ; s not- that' ; s not true GH: That' ; s true! And it stuck, and it- we couldn' ; t get it out of gear GS: Oh no! GH: After that, and I had to, and never did get it out of gear GS: Aww GH: And I took it and had it [Indecipherable] GS: Awww, did you make him pay for it? GH: No, no (Laughter) GH: I' ; ve never forgiven him though, just kidding GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in ' ; 54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn' ; t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and everything and life wasn' ; t that easy but I did it, I made a dollar and a half a day sweeping out one of the office buildings, and all so I survived but then, the second semester I just didn' ; t do very good at all and I was still tore up with my brother killed in Korea GS: Sure JH: And I had to be in a, in a military type thing there whatever you called it GH: ROTC JH: ROTC, and I just didn' ; t do good at all, so I got a letter at the end of the year that said " ; Don' ; t come back Jimmy" ; GS: Oh no! (Laughter) JH: I said okay, so I went to work then in Tulsa, it' ; s [Indecipherable] and all, and then but was dating my wife to be over from Depew, and I took Gerald over and he found one too, and GH: Still married JH: And anyway, so I got married on June of 1956, and working for SH Crest Variety store in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a year and a half, and then, this-- I went out, I didn' ; t, I left that job and was looking or another job and they said " ; Well what' ; s your classification?" ; and I said " ; Well I don' ; t have one" ; and they said " ; Well you have to" ; so I had to went to Sapulpa and-- to the board there and one old man that' ; s a little bit old and irritated and all, and he said " ; Well why didn' ; t you register?" ; I said " ; Well I did but we don' ; t have any record of it" ; well the lady said " ; Well wait a minute, now wha--" ; she went through the thing here, here' ; s a little slip of yellow paper that says " ; Jimmy Hurts said I had registered" ; but it was never on the thing and this old guy got irritated and said " ; Well you' ; re going in and you' ; re going in" ; and I said " ; Well I don' ; t have a job right now, let' ; s go" ; (Laughter) JH: So I went in the army, and spent my two years in then come out and got married to Pat, and then, after I got out of-- while I was in the army then we got-- she got pregnant, but we, I was starting to work in Rossland, New Mexico for SunRay DX Oil Company GS: Okay JH: And was there and still had good Christian friends there from 1959 GS: Wonderful JH: I was there fifteen months, transferred with SunRay DX Oil Company now Tulsa, Oklahoma and went to Albuquerque and was there for thirteen months and then transferred to Midland, Texas and I lived there four and a half years and during that four and a half years, I changed jobs and went to work for Union Calif (ph). Ya know, putting the California, and retired with them in 1992, and so I' ; ve had been, like I said been blessed in that area too. Just had a good life and still got the Christian friends and Roswell (ph) and so forth some, anyway I won' ; t go into all that detail. GS: Well that' ; s good detail, I like detail. Are there any stories that we' ; ve forgotten or any subject that I haven' ; t brought up that you' ; d like to tell me about? I ask a lot of people this question, and I often get the same answer. As you see it, what are some of the biggest problems that face out nation and how do you think they could be solved? JH: First of all, every man that' ; s born since Adam and Eve are born with this sin nature, in my belief, we all have sinned and all. Some of us control it and some of us don' ; t, but there' ; s evil in good people, and I don' ; t care whether you' ; re a Christian or whatever, all mankind has a sin nature. Well, it' ; s sin is becoming rampant now and self-producing greed is just-- it' ; s whatever. And if you don' ; t agree with me, then we' ; re so insecure and spoiled rotten, the kids like the think where you can' ; t correct your child or anything anymore, that the government so, you know, it' ; s just really, it would be sad if I was not knowledgeable that the bible says, the bible says it' ; s gonna get better and better, oh no the bible don' ; t say that GS: No it doesn' ; t JH: It says it' ; s gonna get worse and worse and-- so I don' ; t like it and I' ; m disappointed in it, but I accept it because it' ; s what it spoke, it' ; s what' ; s gonna happen sin and nature is always gonna take over there. GS: Yeah, yeah JH: So that' ; s the way I see the world today. GS: Yeah, I agree with ya. JH: Yeah, you better (Laughter) GH: Then get mad JH: right before you deny GS: Well I could probably use that anyway, alright. We' ; re coming out of the pandemic. Is-- How has that affected you? JH: It didn' ; t affect me at all because I acknowledge the way it is, and that I' ; m gonna do what I' ; m gonna do and then my belief in all and it' ; s like the shots now, I have Christian friends that you get the shots, I said no and I' ; m not gonna get ' ; em. And I you wanna get one, go ahead, but don' ; t tell me what-- don' ; t try to control me and I don' ; t wanna try to control you GS: Right JH: And that' ; s the thing is, people with that same sin and nature if I can control you then it makes me feel better about myself, well why do I need to control you? GS: Right, yeah. Yeah. JH: Got anything to add to that? GH: Well yeah I think you need to get the shot (Laughter) GS: There we go GH: If you' ; re running around with me GS: Well I think we' ; ll end on that note with Jim JH: Oh okay GS: And I appreciate everything Jim, I loved your stories and thank you so much for coming back JH: Well thank you-- GS: And letting us do this interview JH: for offering this for memories, is what live for today GS: Yeah, yeah JH: Yeah GS: Okay, well we' ; re gonna end it right here, and then-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml
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Jim Hurt
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In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years.
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OHP-2021-16
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2021-06-30
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audio