5 10 101 https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/7aa2d912ecbddfac8736b6e44e59e344.pdf dbe251e18f79be313ad5fb177260c279 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Video Histories Subject The topic of the resource Video with transcript Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview George Krumme Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Promotional movie OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-V_Geo_Krumme_How_Oklahoma_Millionaires_Are_Made.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Krumme Oil Company Cushing-Webb Oil Company Cushing Oil Field Tom Slick OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0001-v How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made - George Krumme 38:44 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made Krumme Oil Company Cushing-Webb Oil Company Cushing Oil Field Tom Slick Promotional movie George Krumme m4v OHP-0001-V Krumme How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made.m4v 1:|19(1)|60(8)|75(11)|94(2)|117(3)|136(2)|157(9)|174(4)|188(1)|214(12)|233(6)|259(10)|279(9)|302(1)|317(1)|333(6)|344(1)|367(11)|386(11)|398(15)|433(1)|459(4)|482(1)|496(2)|513(8)|526(8)|546(2)|560(9)|573(13)|587(13)|613(5)|631(1)|642(6)|678(5)|700(13)|715(1)|734(9)|755(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0001-V Krumme How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made.m4v Other video English 0 How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made “How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made” Narrated by George Krumme GK: My name is George Krumme. I’m a partner in Krumme Oil Company of Bristow, Oklahoma. In the early 1980’s, J. B. Red, a Stillwater oil man, contacted my brother and me with a proposition. A friend of his, Sam Myers, had saved a four-reel, silent moving picture made for his father’s company many decades earlier. Background to preserving the movie &quot ; How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made&quot ; , filmed in 1917-1918 Cushing Field ; Cushing Oil Field ; Cushing-Webb Oil Company ; J. B. Red ; Krumme Oil Company ; manually operated camera ; Oilton ; Oklahoma State University ; Sam Myers background ; Cushing Oil Field ; Cushing-Webb Oil Company ; Oilton https://www.tulsahistory.org/halloffame/george-krumme/ George Krumme 87 A WEEK'S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL ONE THE LARGEST HIGH GRADE OIL FIELD IN THE WORLD OIL FIELD TOWNS OILTON 15 YEARS AGO The caption says Oilton 15 years ago, but it should say Oilton today and Oilton 15 years ago, because the first scenes are of downtown Oilton during the boom. Oilton was not even founded until 1915, three years after the discovery well was drilled. Scenes of 1917-1918 Oklahoma, both small town Oilton, near where the discovery well was to be drilled, and a country home. 101 Ranch ; Creek County ; Cushing Field ; Five Civilized Tribes ; Montgomery Ward ; Oilton ; Pawnee County Authentic scenes of early Oklahoma ; log houses ; Scenes of Oilton 36.085046, -96.586629 15 Oilton, Oklahoma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Brothers_101_Ranch Miller Brothers 101 Ranch https://www.britannica.com/topic/Five-Civilized-Tribes The Five Civilized Tribes 228 BUSY OILTON TO-DAY AND WHAT MAKES IT Cushing Field was discovered in 1912. It was named for Cushing even though the town is 10 or 12 miles west of the field. At the time, it was the closest town. Drumright was founded near the discovery well during the following year, and Oilton was founded a couple of years later. The Cushing Field discovery well and a brief introduction to Tom Slick. C. B. Shaffer ; Cushing ; Cushing Field ; Drumright ; Drumright (Okla.) ; King of the Wildcatters ; Oilton ; Slick, Tom, 1883-1930 ; Tom Slick ; Wheeler farm Cushing Oil Field discovery well ; Tom Slick &quot ; King of the Wildcatters&quot ; https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/57951944/thomas-baker-slick Tom Slick 284 DRUMRIGHT FOUR YEARS OLD POPULATION 15000 At the first strong showing of oil and gas, Slick had the driller fill the hole with mud and water and invert a wash tub over the casing with a heavy drilling tool on top. He then cut the telephone line to the Wheeler home Tom Slick discovery well as the beginning of the Cushing Oil Field Cushing ; Drumright ; landman ; Tom Slick ; Wheeler home first strong showing of oil and gas ; livery teams and notaries in Cuishing ; Wheeler home https://www.dictionary.com/browse/landman Landman 321 BUILDING A DERRICK Drilling with cable tools was fairly well standardized in the early days of the industry. All of the original drilling in the Cushing Field was done with what was called a standard rig, using steam power. Building an oil derrick in 1917 - 1918 boiler ; rig irons ; rotary drilling ; standard rig ; steam engine ; wire lines building a derrick ; oil derricks in 1917 - 1918 363 DRILLING Drilling was done using the walking beam, but the tools had to be below floor level before it could be used. So to start the well, a spudding line was run from the crank to a sliding shoe which was hooked over the drilling line just above the bull wheels. Drilling using a waling beam is described. sliding shoe ; spudder ; spudding line ; walking beam drilling using the walking beam ; spudder replaced the standard rig ; starting a well with a spudding line https://ethw.org/Walking_Beams Walking Beams 401 UNLOADING CASING AT THE RAILROAD If the well turned out to be a producer, the steam engine was replaced with a big single cylinder engine, and the rig and derrick were kept to pump and service the well. If the derrick was blown down, the rig was kept in operation but was referred to as a bob tailed rig. Scene of unloading casing from a railroad car using mules and a wagon. bob tailed rig ; gin poles ; single cylinder engine ; unloading casing unloading casing ; unloading casing from railroad cars ; using mules to unload casing 460 LOADING CASING AT THE CIMARRON RIVER NEAR OILTON As you can see, the casing being loaded here is too large to be production casing. Big casing was used in drilling the well. Drilling at the Cushing Field was difficult because there were numerous shallow sand formations that produced water. Casing being loaded from the banks of the Cimarron River to a wagon on the bridge over the river. Narration includes the completion of the discovery well. Bartlesville producing sand ; Cushing Field ; Oswego limestone ; production casing ; uralitic phase ; Wheeler farm ; Wheeler sand discovery well completed ; drilling at the Cushing field ; loading casing to be used in drilling https://www.dictionary.com/browse/uralite Uralite 551 HAULING CASING TO THE WELL Teamsters prefer horses instead of mules for hauling in the oil fields. Draft horses were bigger and stronger. Farmers, and the US Army in World War I, preferred mules because they were heartier, but they were also more stubborn. Casing is being hauled to the drilling site. The narration includes a comparison of the Cushing Field peak daily production in 1915 to the entire state of Oklahoma average daily production in 2002. Bartlesville sand ; Cushing Field ; draft horses ; mules Cushing Field peak production ; hauling casing using wagons and mules ; Oklahoma average barrels per day ; test well drilled to Bartlesville sand 597 MOVING HOTEL BETWEEN MEALS Ironically, some of the biggest Bartlesville wells were not in the Bartlesville sand at all. The Cushing structure is bald-headed. Scene of horses pulling a wagon with a hotel across a wooden bridge. Some biggest Bartlesville wells were not in the Bartlesville sand. bald-headed ; Bartlesville sand ; Mississippi lime ; Simpson sands ; Wilcox sand Bartlesville wells ; Horses moving a hotel across a bridge 618 PREPARING THE EATS NOON Between Drumright and Oilton, in an area of a few square miles, even the Bartlesville is missing and the drill goes directly from the Redfork into productive Arbuckle limestone. Some Arbuckle wells made five or six thousand barrels a day. Arbuckle limestone ; Bartlesville sand ; Drumright ; Oilton ; Redfork ; Sinclair worker ; United States Geological Survey ; USGS Survey drilling into Arbuckle limestone ; missing Bartlesville sand ; Workers washing and eating https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0658/report.pdf USGS Bulletin Geologic Structure in the Cushing Oil and Gas Field, Oklahoma 1917 681 A WEEK’S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL TWO CASING CREW AT WORK In a standard rig, the big bull wheels which held the drilling cable blocked the face of the derrick so the casing wrap was placed opposite the crank, and the casing was wagoned in from the walking beam side using a front wagon and a back wagon. This pipe looks like seven-inch casing so it may be the final inside production string. Crew working to attach more casing pipe segments, including using front and back wagons and a &quot ; never slip&quot ; which is a device used to hold the upper part of a drill string. bull ropes ; bull wheel ; bull wheels ; casing pole ; casing wrap ; d-thread casing ; half-wheel ; never-slip ; round-thread casing ; seven-inch casing ; tug pulley casing string ; drilling terms ; screwing pipe together ; standard rig casing 771 HAULING STORAGE TANK TO THE TANK FARM Back to the subject of the Arbuckle limestone, one Arbuckle well north of Drumright still makes about a hundred and fifteen barrels a day along with ungodly amounts of water. New wells are still occasionally drilled to the Arbuckle. Short scene showing a tractor pulling a string of wagons, and commentary on the Arbuckle limestone production as of the time of the narration (2003). Arbuckle limestone production ; hauling storage tanks 791 SHOOTING THE WELL THE SHOOTER ARRIVES Liquid nitroglycerin is highly unstable and very dangerous to handle. Shooting continued to be the most popular way to stimulate a well until the development of sand fracking around 1950. Shooting a well with nitroglycerin and with sand fracking. jelled water ; napalm ; Nitroglycerin ; nitroglycerin ; sand fracking contemporary fracking with jelled water ; early sand fracking proportions with napalm ; preparing to shoot the well 823 SOUNDING FOR DEPTH Stanolind Oil Company got a patent on the sand fracking process and it collected royalties on every job. Workers estimating the depth of the well and talk of the Stanolind Oil Company patent on sand fracking. Amoco ; sand fracking ; Standard Oil of Indiana ; Stanolind ; Stanolind Oil Company ; the house that frack built ; Tulsa estimating well depth ; sand fracking patent 841 PREPARING THE CHARGE I’m sorry to say I don’t know what the washing in the bucket is accomplishing. By the time we started in the business a blasting gel had been developed and it was much safer than nitroglycerin. The shooter preps the tubes for the nitroglycerin, and description of using a &quot ; go devil&quot ; to set off the shot. A &quot ; go devil&quot ; is a dart dropped into an oil well to explode the dynamite or nitroglycerin go devil ; Zero Hour Bomb Company blasting gel safer than nitroglycerin ; setting off the shot 897 POURING NITRO-CLYCERINE INTO TUBE AND LOWERING IN THE WELL When sand fracking put the well shooting trade out of business, the Zero Hour Bomb Company shortened its name to Zebco and began manufacturing fishing reels. The shooter adds nitroglycerin into the tube and the well is shot, resulting in a gusher. gusher ; sand fracking ; Zebco ; Zero Hour Bomb Company a gusher ; Pouring nitroglycerin into the tube ; Zebco making fishing reels 948 LAYING PIPE LINE TO THE TANK FARM The Cushing Field has produced about a half billion barrels of oil. Early flush production overloaded the hastily constructed pipelines. It broke the price of oil and kept it low for several years. But Tom Slick and others found a solution. A crew screws together pipe joints for a pipe line. The narrator relates the Tom Slick solution for storing oil during times of low prices. Bristow ; building a pipeline ; Cushing Field ; Frisco Railroad ; latongs ; Oil storage tanks ; oil tanks ; pipe-jack ; pipeline ; Tom Slick oil storage tanks ; screwing together pipe jointss 1026 THETANK FARM Like Tom Slick, others built tank farms, and at one time about 23 million barrels of oil was stored at or near the Cushing Field, which is part of the reason why Cushing became “the pipeline crossroads of the world.” About 30 million barrels of oil storage capacity is currently located in the vicinity of Cushing. Short scene of a tank farm. Cushing ; Cushing Field ; the pipeline capital of the world ; Tom Slick Tank farms for storing oil 1051 A FEW SCENES AMONG THE OIL WELLS ADJOINING OILTON OIL WELLS IN THE CIMARRON RIVER The Cimarron River between Drumright and Oilton ran through one of the richest parts of the field. Ownership of the mineral rights under the river bed up to the line of highest water was claimed by both the federal government and the state of Oklahoma, but their claims were disputed by the owners of the adjoining Indian allotments. Oil wells are shown along the Cimarron River, and even on raised land in the middle of the river. The federal, state, and Indian governments all claimed ownership. Cimarron River ; Drumright ; Indian allotments ; mneral rights ; Oilton ; river bed ; river bed leases Oil wells built along the Cimarron River ; river bed mineral rights 1104 A SCENE FROM THE CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO'S SUB-DIVISION The Santa Fe built a railroad line from Cushing into Oilton with a spur to Drumright, and the Oil Belt Terminal Railroad tied into the Short Line from Jennings to Oilton. Both lines carried passengers, but their main goal was to deliver supplies and take out crude oil. Scenes of oil derricks, tanks, and plains of the Cushing-Webb sub-division. Bernard Jones introduces Tom Slick and Bernice Frates. Bernard B. Jones ; Bernard Jones ; Bernice Frates ; Bristow ; Cusing ; Depew ; Drumright ; Frates ; J.A. Frates ; Jennings ; Joseph A. Frates ; Joseph Frates ; Oil Belt Terminal Railroad ; Oilton ; Okmulgee ; Santa Fe ; Santa Fe Railroad ; Shamrock ; Short Line ; Tom Slick Bristow to Okmulgee railroad ; oil derricks ; oil tanks ; Santa Fe railroad ; Tom Slick marries Bernice Frates 1207 HAULING FLOW TANK TO THE WELL (Sound of horses) flow tank 1221 A WEEK’S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL THREE LAYING OIL PIPE LINE FROM THIS FIELD TO THE GULF OF MEXICO Numerous pipelines were built to carry away the flood of crude oil. The Texas Company and Magnolia both laid a line all the way to the Gulf of Mexico. Note that this scene was posed. Men in suits don’t just stand around very often, and this prehistoric Ditch Witch is rotating but not moving forward. Pipelines were built to transport oil. The McMan Oil Company built a pipeline to Healdton to tie into the Magnolia gathering system. Magnolia had a pipeline to the Gulf of Mexico. Arbuckle ; Cushing ; Ditch Witch ; Gulf of Mexico ; Healdton ; Healdton (Okla.) ; James Chapman ; Magnolia ; McMan Oil Company ; Robert McFarland ; Texas Company Magnolia gathering system ; pipeline built by McMan to Healdton ; The McMan Oil Company 1292 OIL FIELD CATASTROPHES INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE THE LOSERS TANKS STRUCK BY LIGHTENING OIL FIRE ON TIGER CREEK During the flush production days, lots of Cushing oil was stored in big earthen pits, and there were several spectacular fires set by lightening. Lightening also set tanks afire. Sometimes a 55 thousand barrel would catch fire and burn at the top of the tank. Oil fires are shown in earthen pits, tanks, and the Tiger Creek. Companies used a cannon to blow a hole in the bottom of a tank for the oil to drain which could then be recovered. cannon ; Cushing ; Drumright Oil Field Museum ; earthen pits ; oil tank first ; struck by lightening blowing a hole in the tank ; draining a tank on fire ; earthen pit fires ; oil pit fires ; oil tank fires set by lightening 1349 RESULT OF A 00000 GASOLINE EXPLOSION FIVE MILES OF CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO’S SUB-DIVISION Notice that these tanks are riveted tanks. Pressure vessels had to be riveted because electric arc welding had not yet been perfected. Most of the oil field tanks in those days were bolted tanks, and all the stock tanks and big storage tanks were bolted. Tanks that were damaged in a huge gasoline plant explosion are shown. The narrator talks about the Chapman and McFarland ties to Tulsa, the Glenn Pool, and the sale of McMan Oil Company to Magnolia. Glenn Pool ; Holdenville ; Holdenville Oil and Gas ; James Chapman ; Phillip Chapman ; riveted tanks ; Robert McFarland ; Sapulpa ; Tulsa ; weldd tanks Remains after a huge gasoline explosion 1462 JUNK CREW SAVING WHAT'S LEFT The Chapman’s and McFarland were already well-off, but they really made their money when they drilled leases they took in the Cushing Field. At times the McMan was the major producer in the field. A crew is seen loading scrap left after the gasoline explosion. Chapman and McFarland were very successful in the Cushing Field. Horace Bernard ; James Chapman ; McMan ; mCmAN ; Mrs. James Chapman ; Pawhuska ; pAWHUSKA ; Robert McFarland ; Tall Grass Prairie Preserve ; tALL gRASS pRAIRIE pRESERVE Chapman family charitable foundation ; crew loading scrap ; horse drawn wagons carrying scrap metal https://www.nps.gov/tapr/index.htm Tall Grass Prairie Preserve 1548 GASOLINE PLANTS &amp ; REFINERIES NEAR OILTON The one non-family owner of the McMan was E. T. Harwell, who owned one-sixth of the stock so he became quite rich. He built a mansion at 22nd Street and Riverside which his widow gave to the Arts and Humanities Council of Tulsa and today Harwelden is the council’s home. A gasoline plant and refinery near Oilton is shown, with tanks, and pipelines. E. T. Harwell is introduced. Casing-head gas, or drip gasoline, is discussed. Wooden tanks are described, as is oil and gas waste and the attempts to recover oil waste. anticline ; Arts and Humanities Council of Tulsa ; casing-head gas ; circulating tank ; Cushing Field ; dam ; drip gasoline ; E. T. Harwell ; East Texas pool ; Harwelden ; Magnolia ; McMan ; natural gas ; Prudhoe Bay ; Prudhoe Bay (Alaska) ; railroad tank cars ; redwood ; Riverside ; Riverside Drive ; skimming crafts ; stratigraphic traps ; tank cars ; Tiger Creek ; transportation facilities shortage ; Tulsa ; wooden tanks anticlinal traps and stratigraphic traps ; collecting drip gasoline ; collecting wasted oil with skimming crafts ; Cushing Field production compared to East Texas and Prudhoe Bay ; drip gasoline available for pumpers ; McMan oil storage tanks ; oil and gas waste ; skimmer on Tiger Creek ; water tanks made of redwood https://www.facebook.com/Harwelden Harwelden 1814 A WEEK’S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL FOUR As I related earlier, Joseph Frates promoted a town site in the edge of a new oil pool on the route of his new railroad from Bristow to Okmulgee. Since Tom Slick had put up most of the money, Frates chose him to be the president of the railroad, and he also named the town after Slick. A tank farm is shown in the movie. The narrator continues the story of the railroad being built from Bristow to Okmulgee and the connection to Tom Slick Bristow ; Joseph Frates ; Okmulgee ; Slick ; Tom Slick Bristow to Okmulgee railroad ; scenes of a tank farm ; Slick, Oklahoma 1874 FILLING TANK CARS WITH GASOLINE Soon after the Cushing Field was discovered, Tom Slick’s best friend, Charles F. Urschel, married Tom’s sister Mary, and took over the management of Slick’s business affairs. When Slick died at the age of forty-six in 1930, Urschel became trustee of the estate. The movie shows tank railroad tank cars being loaded with gasoline. The narrator relates the story of Tom Slick's death, Mary Slick Urschel's death, Charles Urschel marrying Bernice Frates Slick, and of Charles Urschel's kidnapping. Bernice Frates Slick ; Charles F. Urschel ; Charles Urschel ; Dallas ; Depression ; FBI ; George &quot ; Machine Gun&quot ; Kelly ; Mary Slick ; Oklahoma City ; Urschel kidnapping ; Urschel, Charles F., 1890-1970 Charles Urschel kidnapping ; Railroad tank cars being filled with gasoline ; Tom Slick, Bernice Frates Slick, Charles Urschel, and Mary Slick Urschel https://oklahoman.com/article/4626874/july-22-1933-machine-gun-kelly-kidnaps-wealthy-oilman Charles Urschel kidnapping 1984 MR. O.A. BREWER DIRECTOR OF STANDARD OIL OF WYOMING AND A LOT OWNER IN THE CUSHING WEBB OIL CO’S SUB-DIVISION MR. PAUL A. WINTERSTEEN OUR SECRETARY MR. S.M. MYERS OUR TREASURER OUR CHIEF ENGINEER INTERIOR OF OUR OFFICE CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO’S OFFICE LETTERS OF RECOMMEDATION BETTER BUY A LOT AND GET ONE OF Along with the film itself, we got a copy of some remarks made by Sam Meyers who had saved his father’s movie all those decades. Included was a message that probably was part of a flyer or brochure for the benefit of the people who had watched the film. Here’s the pitch: The final segment shows some of the Cushing-Webb officers, engineer, offices, letters of recommendation from local Stillwater entities, and a stock certificate. Cimarron River ; Cushing ; Cushing Oil Field ; Cushing-Webb ; Cushing-Webb Oil Company ; Drumright ; How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made ; Jennings ; Mr. O.A. Brewer ; Mr. Paul A. Wintersteen ; O.A. Brewer ; Oilton ; Paul A. Wintersteen ; S. M. Meyers ; Sam Meyers ; Tulsa ; Yale area map showing drilling site ; capturing the pitch on film ; Cushing-Webb office ; Cushing-Webb officers ; letters of recommendation ; lot numbers ; the pitch to invest in the discovery well A promotional video of the Cushing Oil Field filmed in 1917 or 1918 to promote the sale of interests for a new well to be drilled by the Cushing-Webb Oil Company. Commentary added by George Krumme in 2003. &quot ; How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made&quot ; Narrated by George Krumme GK: My name is George Krumme. I&#039 ; m a partner in Krumme Oil Company of Bristow, Oklahoma. In the early 1980&#039 ; s, J. B. Red, a Stillwater oil man, contacted my brother and me with a proposition. A friend of his, Sam Myers, had saved a four-reel, silent moving picture made for his father&#039 ; s company many decades earlier. J. B. had just seen the picture and said to himself &quot ; This movie ought to be preserved, but the old celluloid film will not last indefinitely.&quot ; So he talked to someone at Oklahoma State University and their audio-visual center agreed to copy the 35 millimeter film onto new 16 millimeter film, and make several copies, if some group would subsidize the costs. As I remember it, we paid a third of the cost and in return got a copy of the film. The movie covers the Cushing Oil Field, and it was made in 1917 or 18 when the field was five or six years old. Sam Myers father was a principal in the Cushing-Webb Oil Company of Stillwater which planned to drill a well near the Cushing Field northwest of Oilton. The company made the film to promote the sale of interests in the well. Mr. Myers hired a professional photographer from Oklahoma City who used an early style, manually operated camera. The well was drilled by the way, and it was a dry hole. With that as the background, let&#039 ; s start the action. A WEEK&#039 ; S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL ONE THE LARGEST HIGH GRADE OIL FIELD IN THE WORLD OIL FIELD TOWNS. OILTON 15 YEARS AGO (Background music) The caption says Oilton 15 years ago, but it should say Oilton today and Oilton 15 years ago, because the first scenes are of downtown Oilton during the boom. Oilton was not even founded until 1915, three years after the discovery well was drilled. (Native Americans riding though camp) The Cushing Field and the proposed wildcat well were both located in Creek County in the Creek Nation, but the Indians shown in this movie are certainly not Creek Indians. The Creeks were one of the Five Civilized Tribes, originally from Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia, and teepees, feathered headdresses, and buffalo were not part of their world. These Indians are clearly plains Indians. Oilton is only a few miles from Pawnee County, so these may well have been Pawnee Indians, or perhaps they were Indians who performed at the old 101 Ranch who were hired as extras to add some exotic color to the film. Either way, these are honest Indians and not Hollywood Indians. The white man tied to the stake and the white woman pleading for his life may have been employees of the Cushing-Webb Company, who as a bonus were allowed to appear in the movies. (Piano music playing) Somehow I don&#039 ; t think there were any wild bison in Oklahoma in 1917, and I doubt very much if this particular animal was killed by a spear or a bow and arrow. Authentic scenes of early day Oklahoma add color to the film. By 1917 the most common draft animal should have been the mule, and oxen should have been rare. Log houses chinked with mud would have been unusual, too. The film was made near the end of horse and buggy days when electricity was available only in towns, running water in country homes was unheard of, and outdoor privies were regularly stocked with Montgomery Ward catalogs. BUSY OILTON TO-DAY AND WHAT MAKES IT Cushing Field was discovered in 1912. It was named for Cushing even though the town is 10 or 12 miles west of the field. At the time, it was the closest town. Drumright was founded near the discovery well during the following year, and Oilton was founded a couple of years later. (Background chatter) The discovery well was drilled by the legendary Tom Slick, later called &quot ; King of the Wildcatters.&quot ; Slick was not yet 30 but he had already built a reputation. Unfortunately, it was a reputation for drilling dry holes, because during the previous seven or eight years he had drilled or participated in about 10 dusters without a single hit. At the time it was said that he was &quot ; broke as flat as a pancake&quot ; . He could toss up a dollar and it would change into ten cents before it hit the floor. Even though he still had some backers, he had to go to Chicago to persuade an old employer, C. B. Shaffer, to lend him eight thousand dollars to drill the well, and he had to borrow a hundred dollars in order to pay for the trip. DRUMRIGHT FOUR YEARS OLD POPULATION 15000 At the first strong showing of oil and gas, Slick had the driller fill the hole with mud and water and invert a wash tub over the casing with a heavy drilling tool on top. He then cut the telephone line to the Wheeler home and high tailed it to Cushing where he hired every livery team and every notary in Cushing in order to delay his competitions&#039 ; landmen. Meanwhile, Slick and his associates began taking oil and gas leases. Even though they did obtain many, so did others, and many a fortune was made in the field during the next few years. BUILDING A DERRICK (Sawing and rig building sounds) Drilling with cable tools was fairly well standardized in the early days of the industry. All of the original drilling in the Cushing Field was done with what was called a standard rig, using steam power. In those days, rotary drilling was generally confined to the soft rocks of the Gulf Coast and California because the early rotary bits did a poor job of drilling in hard rocks. To build a standard rig, rig irons and lumber were hauled in and everything was assembled on the location. A boiler, a steam engine, and lots of casing completed the setup leaving only the wire lines and the tools which were furnished by the drilling contractor. DRILLING Drilling was done using the walking beam, but the tools had to be below floor level before it could be used. So to start the well, a spudding line was run from the crank to a sliding shoe which was hooked over the drilling line just above the bull wheels. As the crank turned, the sliding shoe pulled and then slackened the line, which raised and lowered the tools. The same principle operates a spudder, which was the cable tool machine that replaced the standard rig. A spud, by the way, was originally a spade used for digging roots, which is why starting to drill is called spudding, and why potatoes are called spuds UNLOADING CASING AT THE RAILROAD If the well turned out to be a producer, the steam engine was replaced with a big single cylinder engine, and the rig and derrick were kept to pump and service the well. If the derrick was blown down, the rig was kept in operation but was referred to as a bob tailed rig. This is a primitive but practical way to unload casing. When our company first started in the oil business in the late forties, we bought a few railroad cars of casing. We did not own a truck with tall enough gin poles, so we unloaded the casing exactly the same way as they&#039 ; re doing here, except that we used a truck or a pickup instead of a team of mules. LOADING CASING AT THE CIMARRON RIVER NEAR OILTON As you can see, the casing being loaded here is too large to be production casing. Big casing was used in drilling the well. Drilling at the Cushing Field was difficult because there were numerous shallow sand formations that produced water. Drilling in a hole full of water is very slow. To dry up the hole, the drillers installed a string of big casing, and then as more water sands were reached successively smaller strings were run. Four or five strings of pipe were generally run to reach the Bartlesville producing sand in the Cushing Field. This represented quite an investment and most often the bigger strings would be stripped out either at the completion of the well or sometime later, leaving only the inside one or two strings. None of the casing was cemented, that technological improvement occurred in the 1920s. The discovery well in the Cushing Field was completed at about 2200 feet, in an uralitic phase of the Oswego limestone. The pay zone was promptly named the Wheeler sand because it was found on the Wheeler farm. HAULING CASING TO THE WELL (Sounds of wagons being pulled) Teamsters prefer horses instead of mules for hauling in the oil fields. Draft horses were bigger and stronger. Farmers, and the US Army in World War I, preferred mules because they were heartier, but they were also more stubborn. A year or so after the discovery well was drilled, a test drilled deeper to the Bartlesville sand found a far better pay sand and in another year or so production peaked at 300 thousand barrels a day from about three thousand wells. For comparison, the total oil production for the entire state of Oklahoma in 2002 averaged about 180 thousand barrels a day, only a little more than half the peak production of the Cushing Field in 1915. MOVING HOTEL BETWEEN MEALS (Horses walking across wooden bridge) Ironically, some of the biggest Bartlesville wells were not in the Bartlesville sand at all. The Cushing structure is bald-headed. Over most of the structure the Mississippi lime is missing, and the Bartlesville lies directly on the ore division, Wilcox, and other Simpson sands. PREPARING THE &#039 ; EATS&#039 ; NOON (Sounds of chickens, washing, talking while eating) Between Drumright and Oilton, in an area of a few square miles, even the Bartlesville is missing and the drill goes directly from the Redfork into productive Arbuckle limestone. Some Arbuckle wells made five or six thousand barrels a day. It was a long time before operators realized that the pay zone was not only not Bartlesville sand, it wasn&#039 ; t even sand. An old Sinclair hand once told me that one reason they didn&#039 ; t realize it was limestone was that the flow of gas and oil was so strong they never saw the cuttings. A Drumright oil man told me that they first recognized that it was not sand production when their separators and receiving tanks filled up with chunks of limestone that the heavy flow of oil and gas had carried from the formation into the tanks. A United States Geological Survey bulletin printed as late as 1917 doesn&#039 ; t even list the Arbuckle as one of the productive formations. A WEEK&#039 ; S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL TWO CASING CREW AT WORK In a standard rig, the big bull wheels which held the drilling cable blocked the face of the derrick so the casing wrap was placed opposite the crank, and the casing was wagoned in from the walking beam side using a front wagon and a back wagon. This pipe looks like seven-inch casing so it may be the final inside production string. When the picture comes to the rig floor, you can see the driller turn the throttle control wheel and in the background you can see two ropes in the form of a figure eight. These are the bull ropes which carried power from the band wheel to the bull wheels, somewhat like a long, fat, round v-belt. The principle reason for the figure eight was to give the rope greater friction on the bull wheels and on the tug pulley which was bolted to the band wheel. Early rigs used the bull wheels to run casing. Later standard rigs used a separate chain driven reel much smaller so naturally it was called a half-wheel. You can see the half-wheel behind the driller. And yet they are running casing using the bull wheels, why I cannot say. To screw the pipe together the crew is using a &quot ; never slip&quot ; , a rope, a casing pole, and six men. Our company used to drill with cable tools but we used only four men. But then we were running round thread casing rather than the older style D-thread casing. HAULING STORAGE TANK TO THE TANK FARM Back to the subject of the Arbuckle limestone, one Arbuckle well north of Drumright still makes about a hundred and fifteen barrels a day along with ungodly amounts of water. New wells are still occasionally drilled to the Arbuckle. SHOOTING THE WELL THE SHOOTER ARRIVES Liquid nitroglycerin is highly unstable and very dangerous to handle. Shooting continued to be the most popular way to stimulate a well until the development of sand fracking around 1950. The first sand fracking jobs were done using napalm, that is, jellied gasoline. The early standard frack job was a thousand pounds of sand and a thousand gallons of jell. Now a days jelled water is used and the job might be a hundred times as big. SOUNDING FOR DEPTH Stanolind Oil Company got a patent on the sand fracking process and it collected royalties on every job. Stanolind soon constructed a large research lab in the corn fields at the edge of Tulsa at 41st Street and Yale. It was very appropriately called &quot ; the house that frack built.&quot ; PREPARING THE CHARGE I&#039 ; m sorry to say I don&#039 ; t know what the washing in the bucket is accomplishing. By the time we started in the business a blasting gel had been developed and it was much safer than nitroglycerin. In the early days a shot was set off by dropping a short piece of pipe called a &quot ; go -devil&quot ; to hit a firing cap at the top of the torpedo. By the time we were in the business, the shot was set off with a time bomb made in Tulsa by the Zero Hour Bomb Company. POURING NITRO-GLYCERINE INTO TUBE AND LOWERING IN THE WELL When sand fracking put the well shooting trade out of business, the Zero Hour Bomb Company shortened its name to Zebco and began manufacturing fishing reels. Before the development of the time bomb, there was no way to tamp the shot. That is, to confine it in some way. So when the shot went off, it would blow whatever was in the hole out. This made some impressive photographs possible, and it was a good time to have company officials or investors around to watch. (Sound of a gusher) LAYING PIPE LINE TO THE TANK FARM The Cushing Field has produced about a half billion barrels of oil. Early flush production overloaded the hastily constructed pipelines. It broke the price of oil and kept it low for several years. But Tom Slick and others found a solution. Slick erected twelve giant tanks on the Frisco Railroad at Bristow and built a twenty-mile pipeline to carry his oil into storage until the price went up. Note the use of a pipe-jack to hold the line pipe in line while the crew is screwing the joints together using latongs. Where two crews worked together they timed their actions in synchrony with the strokes of a worker who hammered the pipe near the collar. The hammering not only synchronized the working of the tongs, it also caused a vibration of the pipe that made it easier to screw the joints together. Regardless of his personal traits, the hammer man was called a pecker. THE TANK FARM Like Tom Slick, others built tank farms, and at one time about 23 million barrels of oil was stored at or near the Cushing Field, which is part of the reason why Cushing became &quot ; the pipeline crossroads of the world.&quot ; About 30 million barrels of oil storage capacity is currently located in the vicinity of Cushing. A FEW SCENES AMONG THE OIL WELLS ADJOINING OILTON OIL WELLS IN THE CIMARRON RIVER The Cimarron River between Drumright and Oilton ran through one of the richest parts of the field. Ownership of the mineral rights under the river bed up to the line of highest water was claimed by both the federal government and the state of Oklahoma, but their claims were disputed by the owners of the adjoining Indian allotments. The state of Oklahoma sold river bed leases and many wells were drilled along the banks of the Cimarron. A decade and a half later, the court decided in favor of the Indians. Some wells were even drilled in the middle of the river on tiny islands built for that purpose. Most of the time there were few problems, because the Cimarron was wide but shallow. &quot ; A mile wide and a foot deep&quot ; as they say on the high plains. In flood times it was a different matter. A SCENE FROM THE CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO&#039 ; S SUB-DIVISION The Santa Fe built a railroad line from Cushing into Oilton with a spur to Drumright, and the Oil Belt Terminal Railroad tied into the Short Line from Jennings to Oilton. Both lines carried passengers, but their main goal was to deliver supplies and take out crude oil. As the field was extended southward, a railroad entrepreneur named Joseph A. Frates built a similar spur from Depew to Shamrock which eventually connected to the Santa Fe at Drumright. But Joseph Frates had another tie to the history of the Cushing Field. Frates had a 25-year old daughter. He also had a friend who was a banker in Bristow. The banker was none other than Bernard B. Jones, one of Tom Slick&#039 ; s principal associates. Jones introduced Bernice Frates to his bachelor friend, and within a few months Tom Slick and Bernice Frates were married. So J. A. Frates, who liked to build railroads, had a wealthy son-in-law. For years afterwards, Slick furnished the capital for railroad and real estate ventures promoted and managed by his new father-in-law. One of these ventures was the construction of a railroad from Bristow to Okmulgee about 1920. The principle attraction for that particular route was a recently discovered oil pool about ten miles east of Bristow. The railroad skirted the edge of the pool and Frates plans included a railroad stop and a town site to service the new pool. I&#039 ; ll tell more about that later. HAULING FLOW TANK TO THE WELL (Sound of horses) A WEEK&#039 ; S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL THREE LAYING OIL PIPE LINE FROM THIS FIELD TO THE GULF OF MEXICO Numerous pipelines were built to carry away the flood of crude oil. The Texas Company and Magnolia both laid a line all the way to the Gulf of Mexico. Note that this scene was posed. Men in suits don&#039 ; t just stand around very often, and this prehistoric Ditch Witch is rotating but not moving forward. The best Arbuckle production at Cushing was owned by the McMan Oil Company whose principal owners were Robert McFarland and James Chapman and his father. The McMan built a 130 mile, eight inch line all the way to the Healdton area to tie into Magnolia&#039 ; s gathering system there. The McMan maintained that the pipeline was a private line, not subject to the common carrier rules and with a capacity of 22,000 barrels a day it handled only McMan&#039 ; s own crude production. An experienced crew could lay even a big pipeline very fast. Today most pipelines are welded rather than screwed together. OIL FIELD CATASTROPHES INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE THE LOSERS TANKS STRUCK BY LIGHTENING (Sound of fire burning) During the flush production days, lots of Cushing oil was stored in big earthen pits, and there were several spectacular fires set by lightening. Lightening also set tanks afire. Sometimes a 55 thousand barrel would catch fire and burn at the top of the tank. The companies learned that if they could drain the tank into the moat surrounding the tank, they could pump the oil out of the moat and save lots of oil. So the companies set a cannon, just like the old civil war cannons, to fire at the base of the burning tank so they could generate a hole big enough to drain the tank and pump away the oil. The Drumright Oil Field Museum still has a cannon on display. RESULT OF A 00000 GASOLINE EXPLOSION FIVE MILES OF CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO&#039 ; S SUB-DIVISION Notice that these tanks are riveted tanks. Pressure vessels had to be riveted because electric arc welding had not yet been perfected. Most of the oil field tanks in those days were bolted tanks, and all the stock tanks and big storage tanks were bolted. Electric arc welding was developed during World War I and welded tanks gradually became the standard. Even so, leases drilled in the forties in our area were still being outfitted with bolted tanks. Chapman and McFarland&#039 ; s ties to Magnolia were quite strong. In 1917 the McMan sold all of its production to Magnolia at the unheard of price of 39 million dollars, which was a lot of money in 1917 dollars. The sale included other properties besides the Cushing production. It was the biggest sale in the industry up to that time, and it stayed a record breaker for more than 30 years. To those of you not familiar with Tulsa, the names Chapman and McFarland were important here. Originally ranchers from Holdenville, Phillip Chapman had married Robert McFarland&#039 ; s sister so their son James Chapman was McFarland&#039 ; s nephew. Before the Glenn Pool was discovered in nineteen-five, McFarland had bought a forty-acre tract near Sapulpa. Instead of leasing their land, they decided to drill it themselves. They formed Holdenville Oil and Gas, found prolific oil, and became well-to-do. James Chapman soon married McFarland&#039 ; s daughter, his first cousin, so it was a rather closely interconnected business relationship. Both families eventually moved to Tulsa and were very active in business and civic affairs. JUNK CREW SAVING WHAT&#039 ; S LEFT (Horses walking on bridge) The Chapman&#039 ; s and McFarland were already well-off, but they really made their money when they drilled leases they took in the Cushing Field. At times the McMan was the major producer in the field. Now-a-days charitable foundations created by members of the Chapman family distribute about 50 million dollars every year, much of it to non-profit organizations in the Tulsa area. The Tall Grass Prairie Preserve north of Pawhuska was originally the property of James Chapman and Horace Barnard. Barnard was Robert McFarland&#039 ; s brother-in-law, and therefore Mrs. James Chapman&#039 ; s uncle. He had also been an associate in the family&#039 ; s oil business. (Sounds of horse&#039 ; s whinny, &#039 ; git up&#039 ; , and loading large pieces of scrap) GASOLINE PLANTS &amp ; REFINERIES NEAR OILTON The one non-family owner of the McMan was E. T. Harwell, who owned one-sixth of the stock so he became quite rich. He built a mansion at 22nd Street and Riverside which his widow gave to the Arts and Humanities Council of Tulsa and today Harwelden is the council&#039 ; s home. At least a dozen gasoline plants operated in the Cushing Field to recover as much gasoline as possible from the casing-head gas. Most of the gas was quite rich and lots of gasoline could be recovered. In fact, drips had to be installed in the gas lines near the producing wells to catch the liquids that would gather in the lines. Drip gasoline burned quite readily in the simpler automobiles of the day, and many a pumper had a plentiful supply of tax-free gasoline to power his Model-T. Modern cars will not run on drip gasoline. Wooden tanks were common in the early oil fields. Virtually all the water tanks were made of wood - redwood, because its straight grain and resistance to decay makes redwood ideal for a water tank. The big engines and compressors of the gas plants required lots of cooling capacity, but even the smaller single cylinder engines of the pumping wells required a modest wooden circulating tank. Gasoline plants recovered liquids that would have otherwise been wasted. But lots of oil and gas was wasted in the Cushing Field anyhow. Much of the natural gas was vented, and one gas well making an estimated 50 million cubic feet a day burned wild for several weeks. In addition, much Cushing crude oil was lost into various gullies and creeks and finely into the Cimarron River. Two men built a dam and a trap to catch oil floating on Tiger Creek and collected about 6,000 barrels of oil over a very short period of time. Other entrepreneurs copied their example, and skimming crafts became common. Grease skimming crafts were even constructed across the Cimarron River. The last skimmer on Drumright&#039 ; s Tiger Creek was finely abandoned in the early thirties when the field was about 20 years old. One old timer said he had seen oil run down Tiger Creek two or three feet deep. The shortage of pipeline and railroad transportation facilities made other waste inevitable. In the great fire of 1914, almost one million barrels of oil was converted to smoke. Evaporation and seepage from oil stored in open pits were continual losses. The McMan alone had 60 thousand barrels of crude in two giant pits at one time, and even after they had erected and filled thirty-seven 55 thousand barrel tanks, they still had about three thousand barrels of oil in an open pit. Occasionally you will see in the background a locomotive pulling tank cars. Magnolia alone had about a thousand tank cars, each holding two hundred barrels to transport oil or gasoline. A barrel of crude oil contains 42 gallons. The Cushing Field is on a distinct anticline that shows on the surface. An anticline is an elongated dome of rocks, originally deposited as horizontal layers and it is a common kind of trap for oil or gas. Many of the oil pools discovered in the earliest days of the industry have been stratigraphic traps not located on an anticline. And therefore the theory that oil collected in domes and anticlines have been challenged by competing theories. The Cushing Field was one of the largest fields discovered up to that time, and it was clearly an anticlinal trap. It has been frequently credited with being the first real confirmation of the anticlinal theory of oil accumulation. After the Cushing Field was discovered, oil companies established geological departments and blanketed prospective areas with surveying crews mapping the outcrops and looking for surface anticlines. The Cushing Field, as important as it was with a half-billion barrel cumulative recovery, barely ranks as a giant field. It does not compete with other giant and super giant fields of the world, or even of the United States. For example, the East Texas pool, the largest in the contiguous United States, has produced more than five billion barrels of oil, and the Prudhoe Bay field in Alaska will ultimately produce 12 or 13 billion barrels. In the year 2000, the Cushing Field proper was still producing about 24 hundred barrels a day. A WEEK&#039 ; S TRIP IN THE GREAT CUSHING OIL FIELD IN OKLAHOMA FOUR REELS REEL FOUR (Birds) As I related earlier, Joseph Frates promoted a town site in the edge of a new oil pool on the route of his new railroad from Bristow to Okmulgee. Since Tom Slick had put up most of the money, Frates chose him to be the president of the railroad, and he also named the town after Slick. Contrary to the assumptions of many people, Slick had nothing to do with the discovery or the development of the Slick pool, which was named for the town, rather than the other way around. The railroad was never built all the way to Okmulgee. Automobiles, trucks, and pipelines took away the need for a railroad and soon spelled its end. As for the Slick town site, it boomed to about five thousand, and gradually dwindled to about a hundred and fifty inhabitants today. FILLING TANK CARS WITH GASOLINE Soon after the Cushing Field was discovered, Tom Slick&#039 ; s best friend, Charles F. Urschel, married Tom&#039 ; s sister Mary, and took over the management of Slick&#039 ; s business affairs. When Slick died at the age of forty-six in 1930, Urschel became trustee of the estate. Mary Slick Urschel died the next year, but Urschel did not remain a widower long. In 1932 he married Tom&#039 ; s widow, Bernice Frates Slick, and so united in a new way the Slick and Urschel families and fortunes. Keeping it all in the family seems to be an oil field tradition. Needless to say, Urschel and his wife were quite well off. The next year, on July 22nd, 1933, George &quot ; Machine Gun&quot ; Kelly and a confederate broke up a bridge game at Charles Urschel&#039 ; s home in Oklahoma City, kidnapped him, and held him for a quarter of a million dollars ransom. A quarter of a million dollars is a respectable figure even these days, but it represented a lot more in 1933 dollars in the middle of the depression. After the ransom was paid, Urschel gave every clue he could remember to the FBI, including his observation that a plane flew over the hideout at the same time every afternoon during his nine-day captivity, except on Tuesday. There weren&#039 ; t many scheduled flights in 1933 and the police found that an afternoon flight westward out of Dallas had been cancelled on that very Tuesday. With this and other clues, they located the farm house where he had been held. The two kidnappers were subsequently caught and given life sentences. MR. O.A. BREWER DIRECTOR OF STANDARD OIL OF WYOMING AND A LOT OWNER IN THE CUSHING WEBB OIL CO&#039 ; S SUB-DIVISION Along with the film itself, we got a copy of some remarks made by Sam Meyers who had saved his father&#039 ; s movie all those decades. Included was a message that probably was part of a flyer or brochure for the benefit of the people who had watched the film. Here&#039 ; s the pitch: MR. PAUL A. WINTERSTEEN OUR SECRETARY &quot ; When you saw our canvas banner flying on Main Street, inviting you to see this picture titled &quot ; How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made&quot ; , you wondered why we were here and just what we were selling. My friends, we&#039 ; re not here to sell you anything. We are here to show you how many of your neighbors MR. S.M. MYERS OUR TREASURER in Oklahoma are taking advantage of the golden opportunity they have to acquire riches by investing in the great Cushing Oil Field. You&#039 ; ve seen our picture, you&#039 ; ve seen how people from Tulsa and elsewhere daily debark from the passenger train at Drumright, to participate in the rush to acquire a piece of the action in the great Cushing Oil Field, hoping to improve themselves financially. You&#039 ; ve seen in our picture how oil, black gold, comes out of the ground, often OUR CHIEF ENGINEER flowing over the crown blocks of the wooden derricks, into wooden tanks or earthen pits in an excess of a thousand, two thousand, three thousand, or five thousand barrels per day. At a market price of a dollar to a dollar and a half per barrel, this sometimes means a monthly income from one well of a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, or often much, much more. We would have preferred to have you visit Oklahoma INTERIOR OF OUR OFFICE and the Cushing-Webb company offices, and to see in person on the ground of the great Cushing Oil Field. But like Mohammad, when the mountains wouldn&#039 ; t come to him, he went to the mountain. Since it was impossible for you to come to us, we have come to you. You have seen in the movie and our offices the recommendations from our bank and from our chamber of commerce and the officers of our company, and the potential oil property we own and proposed to develop adjacent to the great Cushing Oil Field.&quot ; That is the end of the message. Here we have an example of the crucial part of a presentation, the closing. But there&#039 ; s also another important stage in the life of a project, the ending. I remembered well the advice of an old hand of the business of spending other people&#039 ; s money looking for oil. &quot ; If your well is dry&quot ; he said, &quot ; keep your acreage and tell all your investors something might turn up later to make it valuable. And occasionally&quot ; , he said, &quot ; something did turn up. But in the meantime you have kept some hope alive, and disappointment is accepted much more gracefully if the realization is spread out over time&quot ; . CUSHING-WEBB OIL CO&#039 ; S OFFICE In contrast to some promotions that have been made in the oil business, this project was advanced by a reputable company in a very original manner, and we have been able to look back almost a century because the company was enterprising enough to present its wares in a new medium, on film. LETTERS OF RECOMMEDATION You can see that Cushing-Webb was a legitimate operation. The northern most town is Jennings, and the town to the left is Yale. To the east of Yale, you can see the hand and finger pointing to the proposed well, which as I have said proved to be a dry hole. Oilton is the town in the bend of the Cimarron River. Southwest of Oilton is Cushing, and to the east of Cushing at the edge of the field is Drumright. Needless to say, the inhabitants of Drumright prefer to call the field the Drumright oil field. The field actually extends another seven or eight miles south of the wells shown on this map. I&#039 ; m not sure how their lot system worked, but a thirty-dollar investment seems reasonable for almost anything. BETTER BUY A LOT AND GET ONE OF THESE And remember, the investment came with an Oklahoma guarantee. SEE OUR REPRESENTATIVES WE THANK YOU THE CUSHING WEBB OIL CO GENERAL OFFICE STILLWATER OKLAHOMA Thanks for watching the show with me. Reproduction courtesy of Krumme Oil Company Bristow, Oklahoma Produced by George Krumme Written &amp ; Narrated by George Krumme &quot ; How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made&quot ; Copyright 2003 Krumme Oil Company video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-V_Geo_Krumme_How_Oklahoma_Millionaires_Are_Made.xml OHP-0001-V_Geo_Krumme_How_Oklahoma_Millionaires_Are_Made.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 4610 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made - George Krumme Description An account of the resource A video of the Cushing Oil Field filmed in 1917 or 1918 to promote the sale of interests for a new well to be drilled by the Cushing-Webb Oil Company. Commentary added by George Krumme in 2003. Subject The topic of the resource How Oklahoma Millionaires Are Made Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1917 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/e11ba7bf7fd98b76eea31f117fa18eb1.jpg c62a61b35a0311c58de7f5a0059672d7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wanda Newton Bill Newton Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Howard Fugate OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0048A_Howard_Fugate.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 May 24, 1993 OHP-0048A Howard Fugate OHP-0048A 0:00-27:33 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Howard Fugate Wanda Newton Bill Newton 1:|31(5)|60(2)|79(12)|95(10)|126(4)|146(4)|171(12)|208(5)|239(2)|269(1)|304(2)|333(4)|349(6)|361(4)|407(6)|455(10)|488(3)|532(4)|573(10)|617(5)|666(9)|677(4)|694(14)|716(4)|737(6)|758(7)|787(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0049A Fugate, Howard.mp3 Other audio 0 Team Wagon Hauling WN: This is Wanda Newton. Bill and I are at the home of Howard Fugate on south Poplar and… BN: Poplar and Pueblo. WN: Yeah. Poplar and Pueblo. Mr. Fugate is 89 years young. HF: Right. WN: And he's just given us a tour of his neat garden that he has planted. And I've looked at his great workshop that's all very neat. BN: This is May the 24th. WN: Yeah, this is May the 24th 1993, he is sharing some pictures of his family and of his horses and he's told us some tales and he was starting to tell me about a contractor who used to have mules here down where the housing development is. So he's gonna tell us about that contractor that didn't treat his mules very nice. HF: I had a hundred mules. Howard tells about hauling pipe in the oil fields with team wagon. mud hog ; mules ; wagon team wagon hauling 128 Early Oil Field Days WN: Oh, too scary. Well, tell me about the early oil field days. HF: The early ones. WN: Yeah. Uhhuh. HF: Well, the early days when we first started, we come in into Bristow here, well, we moved the boiler off of a flat car, down by Slick, the first heavy step we ever hauled. And dad made it for old man Richardson, had a sawmill down there, old JS Richardson, just right out this side of Slick . And dad reinforced that bridge out there, Sand Creek Bridge to haul that boiler across. And we hauled that down. Howard remembers having team wagons and hauling boilers, among other items, in the oil field. boiler ; John Roberts ; John Shelton Richardson ; oil field ; Sand Creek Bridge ; Slick oil field days 457 John Bishop WN: Well, one time I was talking to John Bishop and he said he was over there making money off of Tom Slick and all of 'em selling them groceries. HF: Yeah he, well, that he had that store there with the mules was right there by him, see.. WN: Oh yeah. BN: John did. Yeah. WN: Well, I asked him one time about the depression, how the depression affected him, and was he poor? And he said, no, I never was poor. BN: He said, I worked and made money. WN: He said, I always made money off of somebody else. Howard and Wanda discuss John Bishop and how he was always working to make money, even during the Depression. John Bishop ; The Depression ; Tom Slick John Bishop 533 Early Life in Bristow WN: 25 years. I mean, where did you live in Bristow before you, when you first came? HF: Oh. I was born right out here, east of Bristow. WN: Yeah, I know. HF: And I worked in the oil field about all my life and I never lived in Bristow very much, see. WN: You just lived east of town then. HF: Lived and on the, I lived right over here when our baby, she'll be this fall, she'll be 60 years old and she was born about, about three miles east of here on a lease, see. Hazel (Lorene Fugate Smith) and Virginia, you know, both of them. Howard talks about being born in Bristow but always living outside of Bristow in the country east of town. early life ; Hazel Lorene Fugate Smith early life 579 Businesses on Main Street WN: Do you rem, do you remember anything about the Main Street or any special people or stores down on Main Street? Do you remember when the Conger Opera House burned or? Do you remember an opera house down on Main Street? BN: It's on east sixth street. WN: Or a livery stable? I've been trying to find the names of some livery stables that were here. Do you remember the names of any liv, livery? HF: One of 'em was the Star. WN: One of 'em was the Star. HF: Star. BN: And where was it? Do you remember? HF: Huh? It was on Fourth Street right off of right there, out where the Oklahoma, I mean the Goodyear Tire is now. Howard remembers the Star Livery Stable, board sidewalks and dirt streets. Conger Opera House ; dirt streets ; livery stables ; Star Livery Stable main street businesses 686 School WN: Sack of candy. Well then where did you go to school? Did you go to school? Did you go? HF: Did they have any school back then. I graduated out here at the Lovett School house. WN: Oh shoot. BN: Is that where you got your brick out of? WN: Is that where you got your brick? BN: No, I mean our brick. WN: Our brick from the Lovett School. BN: The [indecipherable] get that out of the Lovett School? Howard remembers attending school at the Lovett School House. Lovett School ; OF Kane School 748 Wagons for Work HF: [Indecipherable] when Slick was first started. It was on a farm out there and I had traded a horse and saddle for a pair of old mules, old mules, and a steel wheel wagon. And we had a dump, dump bed on the wagon. And you didn't raise it up like you do these trucks. You, it was built out of 2x4s. And you'd sharpen each end see it just so you get a hold of it and you put the end gate in when you get to the location, you just pull the end gate up out each end and start pulling that 2x4 outta one side and you could, that gravel would just run. WN: And just run right on. HF: And I went down there, my uncle was down there he had a contract moving blocks out of and coal cars and hauling to build houses down there. Howard recalls purchasing a steel wheel wagon with a dump bed and some mules to use for work. Mabel Mary Fugate ; mules ; Sam Gaskins ; Slick ; steel wheel wagon using wagons for work 856 Bristow Factories WN: Do you remember a brick factory being in Bristow? Do you remember any brick factory ever being in Bristow? You remember a glass plant? HF: Yeah. WN: You remember the glass plant? HF: Yeah. WN: Where was it exactly? Do you remember? HF: I think it, I thought it was over there pretty close to where [indecipherable] on East Fifth. WN: Oh, where the [indecipherable]. HF: I think it was. Howard remembers the glass plant, various cotton gins, and peanut plants in Bristow. brick factory ; cotton gins ; glass plant ; John Bishop ; Newby ; peanut plant Bristow factories 995 Drugstores HF: See we, we still live down there by Slick. We raised cotton and corn, some corn. [Inaudible] Who's them drugstores [indecipherable]? Actually, let's see. See if I can see. [Inaudible] WN: Is there a Humes Drugstore one that, was there a Humes Drugstore or a Duncan? HF: I wouldn't see. WN: Cahill was, how about Cahill? BN: Well, Cahill been up here in this middle block, middle of this block. WN: I don't know when Cahill came, but he was one of our town characters, wasn't he? BN: We can put this under our magnifying glass. WN: Yeah, maybe. BN: See a little bit more. Howard remember various drugstores in Bristow. Cahill Drugstore ; Duncan Drugstore ; Humes Drugstore drugstores 1036 City Park Picnics WN: Yeah we'll take it and see. Well, is there anything that you remember, particularly in your life as you were growing up or anything about coming to Bristow for any celebrations, like I read in the paper where they had big celebrations in the park and had big picnics. HF: At where? WN: At? Out in the Park. BN: City Park. HF: You know where it was? WN: No. Where was it? HF: It was right north of 12th Street. BN: Out there at Sand Pipe Hill. HF: Where that standpipe is. WN: Oh. BN: That was the park then. Howard recalls enjoying picnics at the city park which was located on 12th Street on Standpipe Hill. city park ; Fourth of July ; picnics ; S &amp ; M Drugstore ; Standpipe Hill ; Winey Harjo city park picnics 1259 Country Living HF: Yeah. And they was raised in town. We was raised in the country. I never lived in town when I was growing up. We'd go down there, come in there and a bunch of them and old these other city boys would take us down out that creek and we'd climb up them long willow trees and bend them over and load 'em down and they'd keep, I know, keep a edge in this little fell to get up on my head, see, and then they, the old big boys would jump off. Tree would be way over here, see, and the water was way over there. WN: Oh man. [Indecipherable] It's a wonder you lived to tell the tale. HF: It was, it was fun, it was rough, see. Momma'd, get after us and she'd [indecipherable] every boy [indecipherable]. Howard remembers always being raised in the country playing in the creeks, raising cattle and farming. Jesse Allen ; Lucy Johnson ; Oklahoma Territory ; Slick ; Wyatt School country life MP3 In this 1993 interview with Howard Fugate, he talks about using wagon teams to haul boilers, oil men, living in Bristow, his children, livery stables, attending school, cotton gins and the drugstores in town. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator&#039 ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. WN: This is Wanda Newton. Bill and I are at the home of Howard Fugate on south Poplar and-- BN: Poplar and Pueblo. WN: Yeah. Poplar and Pueblo. Mr. Fugate is 89 years young. HF: Right. WN: And he&#039 ; s just given us a tour of his neat garden that he has planted. And I&#039 ; ve looked at his great workshop that&#039 ; s all very neat. BN: This is May the 24th. WN: Yeah, this is May the 24th 1993, he is sharing some pictures of his family and of his horses and he&#039 ; s told us some tales and he was starting to tell me about a contractor who used to have mules here down where the housing development is. So he&#039 ; s gonna tell us about that contractor that didn&#039 ; t treat his mules very nice. HF: I had a hundred mules. WN: He had a hundred mules and he didn&#039 ; t put shoes on their feet. Half the time. HF: And at one time we went out, we were going out to the cemetery. We went out there with a load of pipe, see, and we had ice shoes on our horses. And this contractor had 10 teams on one big wagon, see? And had a mud hog on. WN: What&#039 ; s a mud hog? HF: It&#039 ; s what they pump mud into these wells and [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, okay. HF: And I was in the lead and I drove up behind them and they, half the mules was down, see on that ice. BN: Yeah. HF: And I just pulled off in the bar ditch and drove right on around. We was loaded. Had one team load on each wagon-- BN: and had ice shoes. HF: Yeah. BN: On your mules? HF: Yeah, on our horses and mules. We had some mules. BN: Yeah. HF: I liked horses better in the oil field than I do mules. You can&#039 ; t work from a mule around a steam engine very good. WN: How come? HF: Too scary? WN: Oh, too scary. Well, tell me about the early oil field days. HF: The early ones. WN: Yeah. Uhhuh. HF: Well, the early days when we first started, we come in into Bristow here, well, we moved the boiler off of a flat car, down by Slick, the first heavy step we ever hauled. And dad made it for old man Richardson, had a sawmill down there, old JS Richardson, just right out this side of Slick . And dad reinforced that bridge out there, Sand Creek Bridge to haul that boiler across. And we hauled that down. We have, we come in here with one team to move it and we was getting three, three more teams or two more teams left. No, it&#039 ; s three. You had to have four teams on a boiler, see, then you could put, and we hauled some stuff. There used to be a big tank out there right across this road from where, where McAdams (ph) place is right in front McAdams (ph), right in the little curve, right in the creek. We hauled some stuff out there, just light stuff on a wagon, bed [indecipherable]. And then we got these teams and we moved out down there and they put it in the boiler house, take it, drug it in there, you know, with teams after unload off the wagon, drug it in there, and set it up in that big building. We started in about &#039 ; 22, see, when we started in. We had seven teams most of the time, so-- WN: That&#039 ; s you and your father combined? HF: My brothers. WN: And your brothers? HF: Yeah. And [indecipherable]. You work for $8 a day. See, team, wagon, horse. BN: Yeah. HF: I&#039 ; ll bet, I bet you this, see, this is what you call a housing, see? That there. WN: Oh, Uhhuh. HF: That&#039 ; s the decoration on on. See here, dad. He didn&#039 ; t care anything about, see, he didn&#039 ; t have nothing on his team, see. WN: Yeah. HF: And them rings, every time I&#039 ; d get two or three dollars extra, I&#039 ; d buy-- WN: Something fancy for your horse? HF: Yeah. WN: Whatever happened to that contractor with all of these mules? HF: Well, I don&#039 ; t know. He course they was, I bet they was 25 or 30 contractors here. Old doc Jones was, I forget now, what was there where seven, I mean Super H is now. WN: Oh, Uhhuh. HF: All that block in there, there was teams out there on Seventh Street, facing Seventh Street. You remember old Grassy (ph) that stayed at the police station, all the time? WN: Oh, lopsided. Yeah. HF: He worked, he was what called a barn dog. He stayed around and looked after the barn-- WN: And took care of the-- HF: Well, he didn&#039 ; t take care of all of &#039 ; em, so he couldn&#039 ; t, John Roberts was his name, that he had a bunch of good teams and, but this [indecipherable], Scott, he&#039 ; s the one that had the the old poor mules and everything and he, he got just as much as we did, but he couldn&#039 ; t get so much done. BN: So, yeah. WN: Well, did you do you remember anything exciting that happened during the, when you were working in the oil fields, when the wells came in? How was it? And people get excited. Did they come out or? HF: Well, see, I wasn&#039 ; t around too much then when the well come in. But yeah, they got excited and, just like, did you remember reading, oh, what was the old oil man that died a couple years ago? Back... WN: Frierson? Kirschner? HF: Kirschner. BN: Brick. HF: You read that? Do you remember reading that? WN: Yes, I remember seeing that. HF: I kept that for a long while. See, he, he worked out of Slick now when he first started and he&#039 ; s talking about coming, getting by them teams a lot of times. We went out here one time dad sent us up here to the oil well supply there on Sixth Street. WN: Uhhuh. BN: Yeah. HF: To get a, a boiler, move it out just right this side of the bridge. And well up there on the south side of the road, we had to pull out there and turn up that hillside. And I was driving this team right here then I was working these horses. I had them in the lead. We only had three teams on that boiler there, but hit at a [indecipherable] in the middle and I&#039 ; d never handled up one up. I&#039 ; m saving my life. WN: But you made it up the hill and everything? HF: Well, I did we had trouble loading it. We broke every chain we had jumping them horses into the you can push it back a little bit to get &#039 ; em to the face and push &#039 ; em back. And then step back and holler, come here or here. And they just said anything. Just like a-- BN: [indecipherable]. HF: Yeah. BN: But did you know about J Paul Getty? HF: He was an oilfield man. BN: Yeah. HF: Yeah. WN: Did you ever encounter Tom Slick or anything? HF: Well, I remember him seeing when he was here. WN: Well, one time I was talking to John Bishop and he said he was over there making money off of Tom Slick and all of &#039 ; em selling them groceries. HF: Yeah he, well, that he had that store there with the mules was right there by him, see.. WN: Oh yeah. BN: John did. Yeah. WN: Well, I asked him one time about the depression, how the depression affected him, and was he poor? And he said, no, I never was poor. BN: He said, I worked and made money. WN: He said, I always made money off of somebody else. HF: Oh, I guess he&#039 ; s he didn&#039 ; t make any off me. He wouldn&#039 ; t loan me any money. He loaned Mack (ph) money. BN: Yeah. HF: And I thought maybe I borrowed $8,500 one time to buy [indecipherable] in Virginia. WN: Yeah. HF: They was in with me there on that steamer. And he told me he didn&#039 ; t have that kind of money, and anytime he wanted to buy a car or anything he&#039 ; d go and tell them. WN: He had charm. Huh? HF: He&#039 ; d say, tell go around and tell [indecipherable] to give you so and so. BN: Yeah. WN: Shoot. Oh. When did you all move out here? HF: 25 years ago. WN: 25 years. I mean, where did you live in Bristow before you, when you first came? HF: Oh. I was born right out here, east of Bristow. WN: Yeah, I know. HF: And I worked in the oil field about all my life and I never lived in Bristow very much, see. WN: You just lived east of town then. HF: Lived and on the, I lived right over here when our baby, she&#039 ; ll be this fall, she&#039 ; ll be 60 years old and she was born about, about three miles east of here on a lease, see. Hazel (Lorene Fugate Smith) and Virginia, you know, both of them. WN: Yes. Yeah. HF: And they was born just a mile east of Bristow here, out there where we had our team see. WN: Yeah. HF: And WN: Do you rem, do you remember anything about the Main Street or any special people or stores down on Main Street? Do you remember when the Conger Opera House burned or? Do you remember an opera house down on Main Street? BN: It&#039 ; s on east sixth street. WN: Or a livery stable? I&#039 ; ve been trying to find the names of some livery stables that were here. Do you remember the names of any liv, livery? HF: One of &#039 ; em was the Star. WN: One of &#039 ; em was the Star. HF: Star. BN: And where was it? Do you remember? HF: Huh? It was on Fourth Street right off of right there, out where the Oklahoma, I mean the Goodyear Tire is now. BN: Oh yeah. On west fourth. HF: And there was one up there right on Fifth Street, right on the corner. Where that filling station on Fifth and Main. BN: Yeah. HF: There&#039 ; s one there. And the, and they was, there was, yeah. I remember when that they had board sidewalks here. WN: Oh, you do? HF: And when and right there where you come off of the board sidewalk, there was two steps, from down on to sixth street. WN: Uhhuh. HF: And all them streets was muddy, you know, and I remember when they used to spray, spray them streets, you know, with a wagon and team. WN: Oh, to keep the dust down? HF: Yeah. I, yeah. When we first started going to town well we lived on, in the country on a farm, we never got to go to town very often and, and that, but dad went to town about every Saturday. See, he&#039 ; d haul [indecipherable] back. We called him [indecipherable]. BN: Yeah. WN: Sack of candy. Well then where did you go to school? Did you go to school? Did you go? HF: Did they have any school back then. I graduated out here at the Lovett School house. WN: Oh shoot. BN: Is that where you got your brick out of? WN: Is that where you got your brick? BN: No, I mean our brick. WN: Our brick from the Lovett School. BN: The [indecipherable] get that out of the Lovett School? WN: I don&#039 ; t think so. I, one time Mr. OF Kane, did you know him at Slick? HF: Yeah. Yeah. WN: Anyway, he had a bunch of old brick to sell, and so I went over to buy that old brick so I could make a patio back behind my house, and I&#039 ; d get up before the store open and go over to Slick. BN: And she&#039 ; d use a pickup from the store? WN: I&#039 ; d use the pickup from the store, and I, it&#039 ; d be 5:30 or 6:00 early in the morning and I&#039 ; d be throwing that brick in the bed of the pickup, you know, and it&#039 ; d clunk, clunk. And finally, some of the people in Slick came and told me not to come early in the morning anymore. I was waking up the town. HF: [Indecipherable] when Slick was first started. It was on a farm out there and I had traded a horse and saddle for a pair of old mules, old mules, and a steel wheel wagon. And we had a dump, dump bed on the wagon. And you didn&#039 ; t raise it up like you do these trucks. You, it was built out of 2x4s. And you&#039 ; d sharpen each end see it just so you get a hold of it and you put the end gate in when you get to the location, you just pull the end gate up out each end and start pulling that 2x4 outta one side and you could, that gravel would just run. WN: And just run right on. HF: And I went down there, my uncle was down there he had a contract moving blocks out of and coal cars and hauling to build houses down there. And I went down there and worked two or three days when I was just a kid with him, you know, hauling bricks and stuff and built that and, you know, where, oh, have you, was you out at the rest home while when Mabel (Mary Fugate) was in there? She was in the room there with an old lady that her husband was raised, they worked at Slick and had a whole bunch of big old boys. What was their name? He died there. Several years before she did see I, Sam Gaskins. WN: Oh, Gaskins. HF: Know where the Gaskins, you know where they live there? WN: Yes. HF: I hauled brick and stuff there to that building and one, right, right, west of us now or east of us. WN: Do you remember a brick factory being in Bristow? Do you remember any brick factory ever being in Bristow? You remember a glass plant? HF: Yeah. WN: You remember the glass plant? HF: Yeah. WN: Where was it exactly? Do you remember? HF: I think it, I thought it was over there pretty close to where [indecipherable] on East Fifth. WN: Oh, where the [indecipherable]. HF: I think it was. WN: Over in that area. HF: I believe that&#039 ; s where it was. WN: Okay. And another thing, do you remember where all the cotton gins were? Exactly? HF: Oh yeah, most of them. WN: Okay. Can tell me where you think they were? HF: Well, there&#039 ; s, you know, over there where on Eighth Street, north Eighth Street, there&#039 ; s one there. BN: John, where John Bishop&#039 ; s was. WN: Where John Bishop&#039 ; s was. HF: Where John Bishop, that there was a scale house, where his office was. WN: Yeah. HF: Where you weighed your cotton and there was, they was one down there by the railroad, right north of the ice plant, see. WN: Where Root&#039 ; s kind of have their-- BN: You&#039 ; re about third street then. HF: Huh? Between-- WN: Fourth and Fifth. HF: Between Third and Fourth. BN: Third and Fourth. WN: Between Third. Oh yeah. HF: And then there&#039 ; s one, there was two right across there, right across the there from, oh, on, on south Main there. And on Second Street, you know. BN: Where the old peanut lady in there. HF: Yeah. Where the peanut plant. WN: Oh, well there was a, HF: There&#039 ; s a, there was seven here at one time. WN: Wow. HF: There&#039 ; s Epps and Jones. Jones had one, and Abraham. BN: Does [indecipherable] have one then? WN: Or Bishop or? HF: I don&#039 ; t think Bishop had it. BN: Maybe the only one they had was down there by Newby. HF: Yeah, they had that one at Newby. BN: Newby, yeah. HF: And yeah, we&#039 ; ve hauled cotton. I&#039 ; ve hauled cotton up there and seen a lot of them. Lemme go out there and get that other picture. You might get. WN: Calendars that Eddie Strong used to. HF: Yeah. WN: Used to Eddie do that. HF: Two or three years ago. WN: Well, now I don&#039 ; t know that he did the calendars. I believe Shamases did the calendars and he saved them. I remember reading one time where Shamases says were, HF: Yeah. WN: Collecting pictures or people would bring pictures in and then they&#039 ; d make &#039 ; em into calendars. HF: Yeah. WN: You know, and this is a, HF: If you wanna take that and put it up there. WN: Alright I&#039 ; ll take this. This is September the 10th, 1916 of the [indecipherable]. HF: See we, we still live down there by Slick. We raised cotton and corn, some corn. [Inaudible] Who&#039 ; s them drugstores [indecipherable]? Actually, let&#039 ; s see. See if I can see. [Inaudible] WN: Is there a Humes Drugstore one that, was there a Humes Drugstore or a Duncan? HF: I wouldn&#039 ; t see. WN: Cahill was, how about Cahill? BN: Well, Cahill been up here in this middle block, middle of this block. WN: I don&#039 ; t know when Cahill came, but he was one of our town characters, wasn&#039 ; t he? BN: We can put this under our magnifying glass. WN: Yeah, maybe. BN: See a little bit more. WN: Yeah we&#039 ; ll take it and see. Well, is there anything that you remember, particularly in your life as you were growing up or anything about coming to Bristow for any celebrations, like I read in the paper where they had big celebrations in the park and had big picnics. HF: At where? WN: At? Out in the Park. BN: City Park. HF: You know where it was? WN: No. Where was it? HF: It was right north of 12th Street. BN: Out there at Sand Pipe Hill. HF: Where that standpipe is. WN: Oh. BN: That was the park then. HF: Let&#039 ; s see, the picture there of my mother and dad, of course, she didn&#039 ; t have that then. Where that, well, the one you got right on top. BN: This one. HF: Lemme see that. I remember, of course, I couldn&#039 ; t then, see, I went after, long after this. Well, I had it before 17. Now she died in 17. So, WN: Yeah. HF: I remember going to picnic, Fourth of July picnic, right there by the standpipe. And some kid, dad said, had a one of them cap pistols. WN: Uhhuh. HF: And they were around there cutting up and this and that, and he just said, let me have your pistol, wanting to shoot his wife. And he put it up in her face and powder burned her face. She died with that. BN: Oh. HF: Yeah, she passed. BN: Is that right? HF: He did it. That cap was an extra, a larger one, or something wanted come through there. WN: Oh, my word. HF: Just powder burned her face. WN: Oh my word. But what did you do at the picnics? HF: What did we do? WN: Yeah. HF: Well, you drink lemonade and. WN: Did you take your own lunch and everything? HF: Yeah. Yeah. WN: And put your food all out together or did you eat it? HF: Well, I dunno whether we put it all together or just eat it. I imagine they did, see. WN: And you had ball games or what did you do? HF: Just pitch horseshoes and stuff like that. And us kids just run and played and all we know to do. WN: Did you get-- BN: Well, you was wondering about the drugstore while ago. Here&#039 ; s what you was wondering about, wasn&#039 ; t it? That&#039 ; d be the S&amp ; M Drugstore. I bet. WN: Okay. HF: Is that a S&amp ; M? Was that Smith? There used to be a WN: Smith&#039 ; s Drugstore on the corner. HF: Yeah. WN: Well, let me go back to the BN: [Indecipherable] WN: Yeah. BN: [Indecipherable]. WN: Well, let me go back to the picnic stuff a minute. Did you did, were there any tables there or anything, or was just a field? HF: No. No, you just had to put her on the ground or bring your own.... WN: What about chiggars and ticks and stuff like that? HF: All, I don&#039 ; t never remember them bothering, bothering anything like they do now. BN: [Indecipherable] HF: We could left them home, see, instead of taking them with us. BN: Yes. WN: Well, lemme ask you Mrs. Harjo, you know Winey Harjo? But she told me there used to be HF: Winey, wasn&#039 ; t it? WN: Yeah. Is it Winey? I always call her Winey. BN: Winey. WN: I know it&#039 ; s Winey. BN: She calls it Winey. WN: I don&#039 ; t know. HF: I don&#039 ; t know. Yeah. Is she still living? WN: Uhhuh? BN: Yeah. WN: Yeah. She&#039 ; s 90 something. BN: Out north of town. HF: Huh WN: She&#039 ; s HF: Out there. Yeah, I know where she lives. WN: Yeah. Well she was telling me there used to be lots of trees and everything. Do you remember trees being... HF: Oh yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of trees out there and all that down in there and big rocks and this and that. WN: And she&#039 ; d play in the creek sometimes down there. HF: Well, the creek was half mile east of town here, see, where BN: You in the same creek? HF: Yeah. I can remember when I was that small, my uncle and aunt by the name of Charlie Brown, and dad&#039 ; s sister lived up here pretty close to the corner of Oak and first up there, you know, WN: Uhhuh. HF: Yeah. And they was raised in town. We was raised in the country. I never lived in town when I was growing up. We&#039 ; d go down there, come in there and a bunch of them and old these other city boys would take us down out that creek and we&#039 ; d climb up them long willow trees and bend them over and load &#039 ; em down and they&#039 ; d keep, I know, keep a edge in this little fell to get up on my head, see, and then they, the old big boys would jump off. Tree would be way over here, see, and the water was way over there. WN: Oh man. [Indecipherable] It&#039 ; s a wonder you lived to tell the tale. HF: It was, it was fun, it was rough, see. Momma&#039 ; d, get after us and she&#039 ; d [indecipherable] every boy [indecipherable]. WN: What kind of relationship did y&#039 ; all have? Did you have any Indian neighbors or anything like that? HF: Yeah, we had the old Uncle Jesse Allen out there when we was growing up down there by Slick. Well, they had a, he had cattle over this country, see, white-faced cattle. And he would, and owned a lot of land. He would, would he put them cattle in them stalk field and feed &#039 ; em out, you know, after they gathered the crop, and if they got into anybody else&#039 ; s crop, well, back in them days you&#039 ; d charge, it was a customary, you&#039 ; d charge someone a dollar a head for anything that you caught up, you know? BN: Yeah. HF: And I remember a place dad owned up there north of the eight-mile corner, one mile on top of that hill. He bought that in 1910, and he had a couple of sharecroppers up there, see. And we lived down there by where Lucy Johnson lived. WN: Oh, Uhhuh. HF: That&#039 ; s where my youngest brother was born there. WN: Oh. HF: Then he had a field right close to them up there, and they got into them old, that old people&#039 ; s field and just eat the food outta that cotton and corn. And he, they put &#039 ; em in the lot and he went up there and kicked the gate down and drove them out had Winchester shotguns and he and my dad bought a Johnny. Fair (ph). Fair (ph), I guess it was two of them boys, they used to work for them. Married one of them married Lucy&#039 ; s sister. WN: Uhhuh. HF: Ella, did you ever know that? WN: I&#039 ; ve heard Ms. Johnson speak of Ella. HF: And dad bought a load of corn on off &#039 ; em about 1910. Her brothers and them that is Joe&#039 ; s half-brothers. WN: Uhhuh. HF: They proceeded to come get that corn. Dad, dad used to go on these [indecipherable], hunting these bank robbers and horse thieves. When they&#039 ; d call him, well, he&#039 ; d always go. We lived up there in the holler between here and the Wyatt School House on the, see, the old road didn&#039 ; t used to come from Sapulpa down here. It didn&#039 ; t follow the section line like it is now. WN: Uhhuh. HF: It cut across. It crossed out here, oh, I can remember where it crossed the road 66 out there. And come in, we used to come into town from out east of town, back northeast, down in, in what we called nigger town, across down of the railroad bridge. WN: Oh, Uhhuh. HF: We come in down across there [indecipherable]. That&#039 ; s where the old trail went. WN: And what trail was that? What was it called? HF: OT. WN: Oklahoma Territory. HF: And they come over there to get that corn one night and we did have some hard hands was we had an old long log house there and they built that another lumber house down in the valley, like it is. It was about far from my garage street out here, down on the hill. And I remember she went to the, my mother went to the door with a shotgun and she&#039 ; d shoot the first one that test that wagon. He pulled it in that wagon shed there at the barn and had to unload it. And he went on this [indecipherable] and they was going to take that wagon and all. WN: She was a pretty brave soul then, wasn&#039 ; t she? BN: Eight-mile corner one you were talking about [indecipherable]. WN: Yeah. HF: And you know, what when we lived down there by Slick, he put his cattle in there where on Lucy&#039 ; s place. He&#039 ; d [indecipherable], one day and when they&#039 ; d owe us a bunch of the nights we would, even when we had cattle in, we&#039 ; d we&#039 ; d bunch &#039 ; em, you know, all night and try to bed them down before we leave &#039 ; em, and he had a we called &#039 ; em niggers then see he had a nigger of BN: Were they slaves? HF: Huh? WN: No. HF: No, there wasn&#039 ; t. No, I don&#039 ; t remember any slaves around there. WN: They were freed people. BN: Yeah. Freedmen. HF: Yeah. They was and, but that we had crank phones, you know? And he went and ran, he called him Uncle Jesse WN: Uhhuh. HF: And he said Uncle Jesse said, I heard him talk to him. I remember just, well, he said that, damn nigger of yours bunch them cattle up in my field down there and said, and the sand had washed down off that hillside we live on. And that fence wasn&#039 ; t much over that high. WN: Uhhuh. HF: And that&#039 ; s the only year that I ever remember his farm. So, he farmed here in 20, the last time he farmed down in around Oklahoma. But he said, I&#039 ; ve got corn and cotton in that field. And he said, I, he said the old man hung up on him, see. And said, I got a man looking after the cattle. The next morning there was 101 of &#039 ; em in our field. WN: Oh! BN: That right? HF: And Emmett, my old brother and a hard hand, and dad put &#039 ; em in the WN: Pins. HF: Big hole. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0048A_Howard_Fugate.xml OHP-0048A_Howard_Fugate.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Howard Lem Fugate - Part 1 Description An account of the resource In this 1993 interview with Howard Fugate, he talks about using wagon teams to haul boilers, oil men, living in Bristow, his children, livery stables, attending school, cotton gins and the drugstores in town. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0048A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1993-05-24 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/08407e7e3e6a832c8010462834569c3b.jpg c62a61b35a0311c58de7f5a0059672d7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wanda Newton Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Howard Fugate OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0048B_Howard_Fugate.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 May 24, 1993 OHP-0048B Howard Fugate OHP-0048B 00:12:47 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Howard Fugate Wanda Newton Bill Newton 1:|17(8)|337(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0048B Fugate, Howard.mp3 Other audio 7 Hauling with the Team Wagon HF: We lived out, and him and Joe come down there. Dad, he, he put his pistol, he stuck it right down there with his open jacket, see, and jumped it on. And, they had a, they had their pistols on, each one of them had a pistol and a Winchester on their saddle. Dad wasn't afraid of nothing. &#13 ; WN: Oh, that's great. Well, you got it all settled then. &#13 ; BN: You had to be brave then. &#13 ; HF: But, we moved up there to Lovett place after that, and he was the best neighbor we had. He'd horn him, and brand him, and [indecipherable] him, and this and that. And where's them, where's them pictures of them two? I'm, and Emmett on the horses. &#13 ; WN: Oh, right here. &#13 ; HF: Emmett brought that horse, that, there's a, no, no. &#13 ; WN: That's not the one. Here's the, here's the horses right here. &#13 ; HF: Yeah. &#13 ; WN: No. &#13 ; HF: That's, that's, that's alright. It's not in there. It's, I've seen it somewhere. &#13 ; WN: I've got these two with you on it.&#13 ; HF: No.&#13 ; WN: No, not that. &#13 ; HF: No, that's a cow horse, see. &#13 ; WN: Oh. &#13 ; HF: These are all work horses here, see. Now, see, that's the way a horse looks when he's pulling. &#13 ; WN: Huh. &#13 ; HF: See, they're stretching. These here is not doing too good, and here they are…&#13 ; WN: Really straining there, aren't they? &#13 ; HF: Yeah. See, I'm, I'm have pushed this old, this old mare here, this gray mare here. She, she is a [indecipherable]. You could slap her on the back a time or two, she'd, well, she'd run away with 'em horses. See. &#13 ; Howard talks about all the different things the hauled with his team wagon.&#13 ; rig timber ; team wagon ; bullwheels ; Sylvester Johnson ; Gus Johnson ; Lee Johnson ; Lowdwick Johnson hauling with team wagon 0 MP3 In this continued 1993 interview with Howard Fugate, he talks more in depth about all the different oil field items, among other things, that he hauled with his wagon team. HF: He said, bring me money. I said, I'm not taking no checks. He'd give&#13 ; different ones a check, you know.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: And they bounced?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: We lived out, and him and Joe come down there. Dad, he, he put his pistol,&#13 ; he stuck it right down there with his open jacket, see, and jumped it on. And,&#13 ; they had a, they had their pistols on, each one of them had a pistol and a&#13 ; Winchester on their saddle. Dad wasn't afraid of nothing.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, that's great. Well, you got it all settled then.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: You had to be brave then.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: But, we moved up there to Lovett place after that, and he was the best&#13 ; neighbor we had. He'd horn him, and brand him, and [indecipherable] him, and&#13 ; this and that. And where's them, where's them&#13 ; &#13 ; pictures of them two? I'm, and Emmett on the horses.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, right here.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Emmett brought that horse, that, there's a, no, no.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: That's not the one. Here's the, here's the horses right here.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: No.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: That's, that's, that's alright. It's not in there. It's, I've seen it somewhere.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: I've got these two with you on it.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: No.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: No, not that.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: No, that's a cow horse, see.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: These are all work horses here, see. Now, see, that's the way a horse looks&#13 ; when he's pulling.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Huh.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: See, they're stretching. These here is not doing too good, and here they are…&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Really straining there, aren't they?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah. See, I'm, I'm have pushed this old, this old mare here, this gray mare&#13 ; here. She, she is a [indecipherable]. You could slap&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:02:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; her on the back a time or two, she'd, well, she'd run away with 'em horses. See.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Well, you worked well with your horses then, didn't you?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah, I yeah. I was a good team hand. And my brother, older than me, he was&#13 ; a cowboy. He made, he made all, he sold a Joe Ihle horse, a cow horse there, and&#13 ; I seen that picture somewhere. One time we was loading pipe, and I was working&#13 ; this team, and my brother, he was, we always tried to work our, our, our&#13 ; sorriest team, or horse, you know, to make him better, to load stuff with it.&#13 ; And we was loading eight inch pipe, and one joint at a time on short skids, you&#13 ; know, just rolling up. The wagon was a couple of way out long, and it was about&#13 ; that 30-foot pipe, you know, on one load.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, that was heavy.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: He rolled up, rolled that up there,&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:03:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; and he was, he had a little Appaloosa horse. He was driving him and a gray mare&#13 ; together. And he was loading that pipe with the Appaloosa horse, and he was&#13 ; doing alright on one, one joint, so he had rolled. He said hook me on two of&#13 ; them, roll me on two of them, and I said, Reggie, you can't load them. He said,&#13 ; I bet you you can. I bet him. He whooped and beat that old horse around. And my&#13 ; uncle, my Uncle Cully (ph), he was driving a bay pair of mares, and he said, I&#13 ; got one loaded. And I said, load two of them. And I said, I bet you, oh, we just&#13 ; bet a dollar or something, you know. And he, he hooked that old mare on there&#13 ; and said and she couldn't, she wouldn't load it. And I said, I'll bet you a&#13 ; dollar or two or whatever it was. I got one loaded, and they wanted to use that&#13 ; young horse that I had.&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:04:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; I said, no, I work with old Belle (ph). So, I hooked on to him. I held her by&#13 ; the bits, and I got it was just a board about like a shingle. About that wide.&#13 ; And I got that board, and I held her by the cheek and right there. And slapped&#13 ; her on the back two or three times. And I started rolling back and said, come&#13 ; here, Belle (ph). Doll was her name. And it sounded like a cannon going off&#13 ; that, that pipe was rolling over each other. They, they wouldn't get after it&#13 ; fast enough to, to jump one pipe over the other.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: But you did it.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And I, she ran me plum back into the bell hole, see. Yeah, and, and she,&#13 ; she, she'd have went on further. I pulled her a lot of times and pulled her head&#13 ; up to a building, you know. And with her head out in front, she could, she'd&#13 ; turn her head, you know. I've had&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:05:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; her put her shoulder again in the building. As long as them tugs tied, she'd go.&#13 ; She crippled a guy after after Dad traded her off to that guy that was up there&#13 ; on 7th Street, I think. They was moving timber, rig timber. We used to haul, we&#13 ; hauled all the rig timber out to build them rigs when we first started.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Where did you get the rig timber?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Out of the, they had big lumber yards.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, and they cut the trees from around here?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: No, no. Oh, no. It was shipped in here.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And see them walking beams, they was, they was 36 inches deep and, and, and&#13 ; 18 inches wide. Wide is it?&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh my.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And they was, they was thirty something feet long.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Oh yes, way [indecipherable].&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: How did you handle them?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Well, dad started out he worked in a logging down in Missouri with oxen&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:06:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; and stuff when he was young. And, they lifted and used can hooks. You ever, you&#13 ; know what a can hook is?&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: I don't.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: They're just a pole with a hook on them, and you, you hook on the log, put&#13 ; the pole over the log and it's hook under here.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: It's got a and flexible piece.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Put it, it had a swing hooks.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And put your shoulder in it. You could roll. And he, he'd wanna roll in&#13 ; stuff on there. And I said, dad, that's too hard. And I'd load, I'd take my team&#13 ; and load them see. And you take, you take them, beams now see them, them was&#13 ; square. I mean, they was square shoulder. They wouldn't roll like a pipe, you&#13 ; know. And you flop them. Well, it takes, and if you, you flop once, and when you&#13 ; go down, if you keep your, your horses a going, well, it, it'll, it'll, it'll,&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Catch it just right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Go right on up. I went out here one time, I asked a&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:07:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; farm boss out there for some of his work, see, for, after I'd taken them&#13 ; pictures there, and he said, well, I've got a man out here with a pair of mules&#13 ; that's doing a good job for me, and he's been out here a long time, and says&#13 ; he'd do anything I wanted him to do. I said, okay, I thought maybe you might&#13 ; have more than he could do. And you know, it wasn't three days, but he'd come up&#13 ; to my house and said, can you move a set of bullwheels? And I said, well, sure I&#13 ; can. I said, well, that ol' boy that had working out there, he said he, he, he&#13 ; come over late one evening, he said he's been trying to load them bullwheels all&#13 ; day and broke his wagon down by 3 o'clock and had to quit.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And he said, well I said, if I can't, if I can't load them in 20 minutes,&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:08:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; I'll, it won't cost you a dime to work out there all day. So I went out there&#13 ; and, he was going to send me a helper and, and he told the helper to go help the&#13 ; pumper start two wells and then go on up there and help Howard load them&#13 ; bullwheels. Well I got up there and he had all the blocks he could find, on the&#13 ; lease I guess, piled up out there around them bullwheels. And I moved them, and&#13 ; this and that, before I get my wagon right inside of them bullwheels.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And when that guy come up there to help me, I was moving them down. See, I&#13 ; done have them over here. And I went down, I hauled them down to the rig. See,&#13 ; they was cleaning and, cleaning wells out, see. They weren't they had these&#13 ; bullwheels was, you know what the bullwheels is in the back of the rig there?&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: I think so.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: That's the big wheels.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: It's in the, in the back of the rig. They're not in the,&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:09:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; I don't know, bell hole.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: There's a band wheel in there, see.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: There's a [indecipherable], bull wheels, and what other kind of wheels is&#13 ; this? I don't know, I'll read that. Anyhow Mabel's uncle, Vester Johnson&#13 ; (Sylvester Johnson), you remember him when he was commissioner here? Or do you&#13 ; know him?&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: No.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: You wouldn't know him. He he was dressing tools [indecipherable] in the&#13 ; drill over there. And I said, Vester, if you'll fold that [indecipherable] out&#13 ; at that rig up there, I'll pick them bullwheels off and set them on, in the&#13 ; [indecipherable] for you, so they left them. And he said, can you do that? And I&#13 ; said, try me. And I put down there a [indecipherable] and put my team to that&#13 ; end of the line. They hooked on those bullwheels and I picked them up and they&#13 ; swung right in there where they went. And I, I could pick them up. I could, with&#13 ; them old horses, I could just move them a little&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:10:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; bit at a time. And I held them up there and they scooted a big post on them that&#13 ; they set in, see. And over a while I'd come up there and he said, and when you&#13 ; get that, he said, I wanted to see you load the bullwheels. And I said, well you&#13 ; didn't get up here in time. And he said, after you get that other stuff moved&#13 ; down there, I had a stand to take down there and some water lines and stuff. I&#13 ; loaded that up and take it down there and he, he hooked me on four more sets of&#13 ; bullwheels that day, see.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, your poor horses, didn't they nearly die?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: No, no. You can roll, you can roll a big, a round thing, as big as a round&#13 ; is, easier it is to roll. Yeah. Ain't that right?&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, shoot. Well, listen.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: You gotta know what you're doing.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah. See he was, I don't know, he was going to block them up some way. I&#13 ; don't know why. See, I just rolled it right up again&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:11:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; in the wagon. And see, it's got two grooves for a rope that big or bigger for&#13 ; the bull ropes on one end and the other is the brake wheel, see. Well, I just&#13 ; rolled, I just pulled my wagon right up close to them and just rolled them up&#13 ; again in the wagon, in the wagon and hooked a chain on my wagon down to the&#13 ; bottom of the band wheel, see. And this end down here, I hooked the chains to&#13 ; the wagon, you know, and run it right on to them grooves over and hooked my team&#13 ; on that.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Hey, that was an engineering feat.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: And see, I just got them by the face and, and they just went, went to pick&#13 ; it up. And that other chain, the hole in there, just looked and it couldn't turn&#13 ; it. It couldn't come on over them, see.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Oh, gah.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Vester Johnson, would he have been kin to Gus Johnson?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: He is Gus's brother.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Gus's brother.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Huh. Full brother.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: And Lee Johnson.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah. Gus, Lee, and Loddie&#13 ; &#13 ; [00:12:00&#13 ; &#13 ; ]&#13 ; &#13 ; (Lowdwick Johnson). Remember Loddie?&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: No, I never did know Loddie.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: He was the youngest one.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: That right?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: You know Charles Ray?&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: That's his dad. Loddie.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Loddie was his dad.&#13 ; &#13 ; BN: Yeah, I know Charles Ray [indecipherable].&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: He came out here a while back and we sat out there and talked to him.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: He's a nice looking fella, isn't he?&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah, he's a good guy.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Yeah, he's a nice person.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: I didn't know who he married. I noticed his dad and mother, I mean, her dad&#13 ; and mother she was down in the rest home for a while.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Interesting people back in those days.&#13 ; &#13 ; HF: Yeah, I guess they will be.&#13 ; &#13 ; WN: Listen, we're going to stop for right now.&#13 ; &#13 ; audio 0 https://viewer.mybcpl.org/viewer.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0048B_Howard_Fugate.xml OHP-0048B_Howard_Fugate.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Howard Lem Fugate - Part 2 Description An account of the resource In this continued 1993 interview with Howard Fugate, he talks more in depth about all the different oil field items, among other things, that he hauled with his wagon team. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0048B Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1993-05-24 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/0b60c455cd9823b555198248123c5e06.jpg 9e78304aec7410afa4bac86eddb8ac7f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Harlan Krumme Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hyatt Chapman OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0052A_Hyatt_Chapman.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 August 2, 1979 OHP-0052A Hyatt Chapman OHP-0052A 00:47:30 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Hyatt Chapman Harlan Krumme 1:|13(15)|29(4)|48(2)|64(4)|81(3)|98(12)|119(2)|139(16)|155(11)|184(6)|209(6)|220(19)|234(10)|248(4)|277(13)|296(9)|319(12)|331(6)|352(10)|365(13)|388(7)|417(16)|435(13)|459(14)|490(8)|521(11)|542(8)|561(13)|575(9)|598(3)|601(5)|633(8)|660(2)|680(12)|715(15)|730(2)|748(7)|779(9)|799(13)|818(12)|842(15)|867(5)|896(5)|910(2)|931(10)|968(2)|976(13)|1001(13)|1014(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0052A Chapman, Hyatt.mp3 Other audio 0 Grandfathers HC: Well, my first memories about Bristow started when I was real young. I was pretty active around the place. My Grandfather Chapman (Isaac “Clay” Chapman), would take me around with him and my Grandfather Tyus (Thomas E. Tyus) is, he was pretty active in the Bristow settlement because he came from Birmingham, Alabama and moved his family up there. He was a United States Marshal of Birmingham while his uncle was a United States Senator. After his senator decided not to run in anymore, why he was reduced to a [indecipherable] United States Marshals sent to Indian Territory. Hyatt talks about his grandfathers, Thomas E. Tyus and Isaac "Clay" Chapman. Thomas E. Tyus ; Isaac "Clay" Chapman ; Birmingham (Ala.) ; U.S. Marshal ; Gainesville (Tex.) ; schooner wagon ; Red River ; Tol Foster 0 181 Alfalfa Bill Murray HC: And that is, a, one of the things that, and Tol Foster come over to my house while I lived in Bristow and told me about that. That was his deal while he was on this assignment, why he became friends with Alfalfa Bill Murray.&#13 ; HK: And what was his name? Now this was your mother's father. &#13 ; HC: Tom Tyus (Thomas Edwin Tyus). &#13 ; HK: Tom Tyus. Okay. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about his grandfather, Thomas E. Tyus befriending Alfalfa Bill Murray and his grandfather being a U.S. Marshal. Alfalfa Bill Murray ; Tol Foster ; Thomas E. Tyus ; Red River ; Murray County ; Bill Tilghman Alfalfa Bill Murray ; U.S. Marshal 0 317 Chandler Homestead HK: Where did your father come from to Bristow? &#13 ; HC: My father? &#13 ; HK: Your father. &#13 ; HC: He, my grandfather and my father came from Chandler. They settled on a homestead over, uh, four miles north of Chandler and two east. And, they, when the run was on, well, they moved down there. &#13 ; HK: Yeah. &#13 ; HC: And, then they settled on, I think it was 160 acres over there. And my grandfather didn't particularly like the thing and he came to Bristow and bought the place out east of town where he lived until he died. And my father also bought a little tract out there east of town. &#13 ; Hyatt tells about his father and grandfather settling in Chandler on 160 acres. His grandfather didn't like it there and moved to Bristow. Chandler, (Okla.) ; cotton gins Chandler homestead 0 410 Bristow Jail HK: Well, getting back to your grandfather just, for just a second. It seems to me that I've heard you say he had something to do with the, one room, single cell jail that was, that was on the property between 7th and 8th Street, where Wells Food Market is now. It'd be just across the road from the [indecipherable] station.&#13 ; HC: That's right. while he was Assistant Deputy United States Marshal there, they built that little jail. And that was the escape proof jail in this part of the country that the biggest part of the marshals, Uncle Billy Freshour, bringing people into that jail and the marshal from Guthrie bring it in. And that jail remained there until just about maybe a year and a half or two years ago. &#13 ; Hyatt and Harlan discuss the Bristow jail. Uncle Billy Freshour ; Guthrie (Okla.) ; Bristow jail Bristow jail 0 514 Washington School HK: Well, if you were born in 12, then where did you start to, where did you start school? Where was the school when you first started school? &#13 ; HC: The school that I started to was the old Washington School. It was the old brick square building that finally burnt down there. Oh, I guess I'd been going to school there for two or three years and it, burned. And then we had to go to school in the churches. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about starting school at Washington School. Washington School Washington School 0 588 Grandfather Thomas E. Tyus HK: Well, I don't want to leave your grandfather too quickly now. You were saying that he got killed and, and, do you remember about what year this was and what the circumstances were? &#13 ; HC: Yes, from, what they told my mother and my uncle. &#13 ; HK: Yeah. &#13 ; HC: My granddad served as Deputy United States Marshal until he resigned there, and then he went as City Marshal for this little town of settlement of Bristow. And where the Presbyterian Church now stands, there was a story and a half building there. Well, I'm getting ahead of my story. While, he was City Marshal, he run the livery stable. The livery stable was where the Roland Hotel is right now. &#13 ; Hyatt remembers his grandfather, Thomas E. Tyus, being a Deputy US Marshal and a City Marshal and some memories that went with those jobs. Thomas E. Tyus ; Deputy U.S. Marshal ; city marshal ; Tom Slick ; livery stable ; Slick, (Okla.) ; Cushing, (Okla.) Thomas E. Tyus 0 812 Early Freighters HK: Right. Well, did he supply, do you know, did he supply, he supplied rigs, uh, which I suppose was a buggy and a team, or maybe a buggy and one horse, I don't know. Did he also supply team and wagons to haul equipment with? &#13 ; HC: No, he had hacks, what they call hacks and buggies. &#13 ; HK: Yeah. Used the hacks. &#13 ; HC: And, he didn't do that, but there was people there later on that did. Now my Grandfather Chapman, he, when he came from Chandler over there and settled at this place, he had, three, three teams and he was a freighter from Guthrie to Bristow. And it'd take him about six or seven days to go to Guthrie and come back with a load of groceries. &#13 ; Hyatt talks in depth about the early freighters and where they traveled and what they hauled. hacks ; buggies ; freighter ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Guthrie (Okla.) ; Jim Jackson ; Jim Bogle ; Wilbur Harrington ; L.M. Wolfe ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Drumright (Okla.) freighters 0 1013 Brick Streets HC: Oh, yes, he got into other kind of hauling even before, uh, even while he was hauling from Guthrie over here. He sold sand that he dug out of the Sand Creek bottom on his farm there. All the sidewalks in Bristow on all the concrete streets in Bristow, has got sand that was hauled, that he hauled in from there into Bristow to the contractor that put the cement for the sidewalks and the concrete streets down. &#13 ; HK: So that brings up another thing. All the brick streets in Bristow are bound to be on a bed of sand.&#13 ; HC: Yeah he furnished their sand. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about his grandfather hauling the sand from his homestead to the town of Bristow when they were bricking the streets. Sand Creek ; brick streets ; Arthur Foster brick streets 0 1157 Oil Teaming Contractors HC: There's, when the oil fields came into Bristow, the, my dad went into the, well, my dad, helped my grandfather haul from Guthrie over to Bristow, and he had his own team. And when the oil fields started coming in around Drumright, why, he'd go from Bristow to Drumright and do, uh, teaming from one well to the other, haul the tools from one well, because he didn't have trucks, and they all had to be moved by teams. And my dad was a teaming contractor, and my granddad was, my uncle was too. And in Bristow there was five different oil field teaming contractors there, and one was a fella that moved from Drumright over to Bristow. His name was Doc Martin (Howard “Doc” Martin), and his barn was right where your office used to be before he moved over on 9th Street. Hyatt tells about the various teaming contractors and what they hauled. Guthrie (Okla.) ; oil fields ; Drumright (Okla.) ; teaming contractors ; Howard "Doc" Martin ; L.C. Jones ; Seminole (Okla.) ; Elliott McCutcheon ; L.C. Jones Trucking ; Alex McCutcheon ; Basil Henson teaming contractors 0 1368 Banks at 7th &amp ; Main HC: And there was a, oh, any number of teaming contractors there in the early days. But, getting back to the early Bristow, uh, at 7th Street and Main Street, on each corner there was a bank. And, when, they first started there, there was no pavement. It was all dirt other than this water tank sitting out for the horses sitting out in the middle of the street. When you walked across the street, why, you'd have to walk in mud.&#13 ; HK: Yeah, right. &#13 ; HC: And, so they finally decided they'd put crosswalks from each side, east to west there. &#13 ; Hyatt recalls the banks that were located at 7th &amp ; Main and the wooden sidewalks that were built to keep citizens out of the mud. banks ; wooden sidewalks banks ; wooden sidewalks 0 1567 Dad Senter &amp ; Family HC: It really is. Well, getting back to Bristow, there's an old fella down there that the Bristow people will know. And his name, they called him Dad Senter. And he did more for Bristow along, all of the young ones knew him. He sold produce there, garden stuff. He raised a large family. &#13 ; HK: Senter?&#13 ; HC: Yeah, S E N T E R.&#13 ; HK: S E N T E R. &#13 ; HC: Dad Senter. Okay, he had, I believe one, two, three sons and maybe a daughter or two. Henry Senter, he, his wife was postmaster there. He was postmaster until he died. He got burned in a gasoline explosion. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about the influence Dad Senter had on the town of Bristow. Dad Senter ; The Great Depression Dad Senter 0 1666 Maltby Hotel HC: And, there was a lady there who ran a little hotel. It's about where Shamus’ Grocery, I mean, Shamus’ Dry Goods Store is, upstairs. I believe her name was Maltby. Maltby Rooms (ph). And the people didn't think very much of her. They all wanted to run her out of town and all that stuff. Because, see, her hotel wasn't just exactly what it was meant to be. &#13 ; HK: You wouldn't call it real high class. &#13 ; HC: Well, no, it wasn't a high-class hotel. People didn't think very much of her.&#13 ; Hyatt remembers the Maltby Hotel and Dad Senter running a soup kitchen out of it during The Great Depression. Maltby Hotel ; Shamus Dry Goods ; soup kitchen ; The Great Depression ; Dad Senter Maltby Hotel ; soup kitchen 0 1924 School HK: Well, let's get back to some of your early school and after your grade school, after your grade school, uh, was there a junior high school in Bristow at the time you went into the seventh grade? &#13 ; HC: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. There was a junior high school there. It was where the junior high school was right back of the old high school building.&#13 ; HK: Yeah. &#13 ; HC: There on 9th Street at the back of the 9th Street, the big, square high school building that's there now. It used to be the high school. That was junior high school. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about the different schools he attended when he was young. Edison School ; Bristow High School ; Texas A &amp ; M College ; The Great Depression ; Arthur Foster School 0 2135 Teaming &amp ; Trucking HK: Okie doke. Well, your dad was in the teaming and trucking business.&#13 ; HC: He was in the teaming and trucking business. &#13 ; HK: Didn't you work with him for a while in, in that part of the business before you, uh, went out on your own? &#13 ; HC: Yes, I've worked, I helped him drive teams on, in the summertime. He had three teams and, when school was out in the summer when I was, uh, around 11 or 12 years old, he would fire a skinner and I'd drive the team. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about the teaming business and the transition into the trucking business. teaming ; trucking ; Slick (Okla.) ; Drumright (Okla.) ; tool pushers ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Kellyville (Okla.) ; oil derricks ; Sinclair Oil Company ; boiler wagon ; sludge pit ; Davenport (Okla.) teaming business 0 2700 Remembering the First Oil Well HK: Do you remember the first well that you ever saw drilling, where it was? A drilling well? &#13 ; HC: Yes, I do. It was number one Red Bank, and it was out east of my dad, on the farm out there. And it was half a mile east of our house. Dad would put me on his back. I'd piggyback over there after supper. We'd piggyback over there and sit on the lazy bench and visit with the driller and tool dresser while they was drilling. And it was an old steam cable tool job. And it was, where this place was, it was a mile and a half west of Maye's Corner and three quarters of a mile north. &#13 ; Hyatt recalls the very first drilling rig he ever saw and where it was located. oil well ; Maye's Corner ; Tim Cushing ; Wayne Hopper oil well 0 MP3 In this 1979 interview with Hyatt Chapman, he and Harlan Krumme discuss his Chandler homestead, the Bristow jail, school life, his grandfather, teaming contractors for the oil industry, Dad Senter, Tol Foster, Alfalfa Bill Murry and a host of other Bristow characters. HK: Okay, this is Harlan Krumme, and I'm talking to Hyatt Chapman. I was, born in Bristow, and went to school in Bristow, and we're gonna a little, reminisce a little bit about what Hyatt was like. About his early life, about his grandfather, and how he came to come there, and just anything. Hyatt, start in and tell us your first memories about Bristow. HC: Well, my first memories about Bristow started when I was real young. I was pretty active around the place. My Grandfather Chapman (Isaac “Clay” Chapman), would take me around with him and my Grandfather Tyus (Thomas E. Tyus) is, he was pretty active in the Bristow settlement because he came from Birmingham, Alabama and moved his family up there. He was a United States Marshal of Birmingham while his uncle was a United States Senator. After his senator decided not to run in anymore, why he was reduced to a [indecipherable] United States Marshals sent to Indian Territory. HK: Do you remember about what year that was? HC: I don't remember what year it was. It was a time that Parker was sent to Fort Smith, way, way back there. Bristow was just a crossroads. HK: Yeah, okay. HC: At that time. And his job was to come in here and ride herd on the people that was hauling whiskey from Texas. They'd go to Gainesville, Texas, and they'd take a schooner wagon, camp on Red River, unload half of their gallon jugs on the Red River bank, go into Gainesville and fill up the half that they took in Gainesville with them, come back to Red River and fill it up with water. Come on in and trade this whiskey to the Indians for hides and furs and cattle and horses that they would steal around there and gather up. HK: Yeah. HC: And that was his, his job mainly. HK: [Indecipherable]. [Inaudible] HC: This stuff and go on a masquerade, masquerade party and, and, run people out and kill them and murder them. And one particular instance my mother told me about her father was the time that he rescued Tol Foster and his family and put them under the meeting house underneath the floor while the Harjos went on a rampage, drunken r ampage, and burned their house down, stole their horses, and burned all of their hay up. HK: Oh my goodness. HC: And that is, a, one of the things that, and Tol Foster come over to my house while I lived in Bristow and told me about that. That was his deal while he was on this assignment, why he became friends with Alfalfa Bill Murray. HK: And what was his name? Now this was your mother's father. HC: Tom Tyus (Thomas Edwin Tyus). HK: Tom Tyus. Okay. HC: While he was on this assignment in the, Red River part of it, why, he run on to Bill Murray, Alfalfa Bill. They became real good friends. And, they came in, go down to the valley and come back to, uh, the settlement of Bristow. And, next time he'd go out why, he'd sickle down through Murray County and see, oh, what is now Murray County, what was this territory then, and, run on to the Murray family. And, let's see, one other thing he became. HK: Well, I understand that, he didn't carry a gun. HC: No. HK: He was a marshal and didn't carry a gun. HC: He was a marshal and didn't carry a gun. And that led to his downfall a little later on down the road, but he, he would go and if he was going to pick you up, he'd go tell you, okay, old buddy, I want to see you at the jailhouse at such and such time. You can come one or two ways, you can come peaceful by yourself, or I'll come get you one way or the other. If I come get you, I'll come get you [indecipherable] but has to be that way. He didn't carry a gun. He was a husky, old codger from what I hear. I was so little when he was killed that I didn't know him. Actually, I'm just getting my information from my mother and uncle. And, he was a great friend of Bill Tilghman and, Bill Tilghman and the marshal at Guthrie. HK: Where did your father come from to Bristow? HC: My father? HK: Your father. HC: He, my grandfather and my father came from Chandler. They settled on a homestead over, uh, four miles north of Chandler and two east. And, they, when the run was on, well, they moved down there. HK: Yeah. HC: And, then they settled on, I think it was 160 acres over there. And my grandfather didn't particularly like the thing and he came to Bristow and bought the place out east of town where he lived until he died. And my father also bought a little tract out there east of town. HK: What year were you born in? HC: I was born in 1912. HK: 1912. So Bristow wasn't not very large when you were born? HC: No, Bristow, I can remember Bristow when it had five cotton gins and the main street was two blocks long. And there wasn't no pavement on the streets of any kind. They had two watering troughs. One watering trough was at the intersection of 7th and Main Street now. And the other one was down at about 4th Street, right about where that little hamburger place used to be. HK: Yeah. HC: Right in there. HK: Well, getting back to your grandfather just, for just a second. It seems to me that I've heard you say he had something to do with the, one room, single cell jail that was, that was on the property between 7th and 8th Street, where Wells Food Market is now. It'd be just across the road from the [indecipherable] station. HC: That's right. while he was Assistant Deputy United States Marshal there, they built that little jail. And that was the escape proof jail in this part of the country that the biggest part of the marshals, Uncle Billy Freshour, bringing people into that jail and the marshal from Guthrie bring it in. And that jail remained there until just about maybe a year and a half or two years ago. HK: Had to about 1976 or 7 along in there. HC: And they was gonna move it out to the Veterans and Foreign Wars area. And they got in there and by golly they didn't have anything to move it, tear it, destruct it before they could get it out of there. HK: Right, it wasn't movable. HC: No. HK: It was, the walls were extremely thick on it and they the concrete and rock in the, base and foundation went down so deep that they couldn't move it. HC: They couldn't move it. They couldn’t root it out, so… HK: They had to destruct it. They built a real jail I’ll tell you that. HC: Yeah, they had one that they wouldn't escape out of. Of course, it wasn't, there wasn't no modern facilities there. They didn't have anything in it but just a room and a place for the marshal when he'd come in there. HK: Well, if you were born in 12, then where did you start to, where did you start school? Where was the school when you first started school? HC: The school that I started to was the old Washington School. It was the old brick square building that finally burnt down there. Oh, I guess I'd been going to school there for two or three years and it, burned. And then we had to go to school in the churches. HK: Yeah. HC: And, we went to school in different churches, and we'd have this class in one church, and that class in another church, until… HK: Do you remember what grade you were in when that school burned? HC: I was in the third grade when that school burned. Oh, wait a minute, second grade. HK: Well, you'd have been about eight-years-old. HC: I'd have been about eight-years-old. HK: Yeah. HC: Somewhere in the neighborhood of eight-years-old. HK: Well, it would have been roughly in 1920 that the school… HC: It was ‘19 or ‘20 when the school burned, as near as I can recall. Then they built a new school, the school is there now, and we went on to school there. HK: Well, I don't want to leave your grandfather too quickly now. You were saying that he got killed and, and, do you remember about what year this was and what the circumstances were? HC: Yes, from, what they told my mother and my uncle. HK: Yeah. HC: My granddad served as Deputy United States Marshal until he resigned there, and then he went as City Marshal for this little town of settlement of Bristow. And where the Presbyterian Church now stands, there was a story and a half building there. Well, I'm getting ahead of my story. While, he was City Marshal, he run the livery stable. The livery stable was where the Roland Hotel is right now. HK: While he was marshal, he ran the stable? HC: Yeah. HK: Okay. HC: While he was marshal, he ran the stable and then Tom Slick came down and rented all of his rigs and only used one of 'em there for a week to go out in different places and lease land and, around Slick and Cushing and around there he'd only use one rig, but he at leased all of 'em, and there wasn't any rigs for hire. HK: Right. HC: Well, and then just about a year after that, well, this place where he was killed is down where the Presbyterian Church is now. There was a story-and-a-half frame house, had a wood fence around it, had a gate, front gate on it where they opened the gate to walk up to the porch. They had a chain there with a bunch of iron hanging on it, so it'd draw it to when they pulled it to, it'd draw it to and close it. And, this desperado, who they was wanting real bad, was reported to have come to this house. This house was a, uh, half-breed Indian lady that run the house. And it wasn't, she kept, took in these guys hiding from the law and this, that and the other. They reported that he was down there, so my grandfather decided to go down and tell him what he wanted him to do. And he goes down and when he opens the gate, he opens the gate and steps up on the porch. When he steps up on the porch, this, outlaw shoots through the door and empties the six-shooter in his chest. HK: Wow. HC: And, they, when the shooting, when they heard the shooting, why here come people running, this outlaw took off. And they didn't get him for about six years after that. They finally caught him after six years because he took off and went to Mexico. And, my granddad lived from, that evening to about two or three days. And that was in 1911. HK: Did you ever hear your mother say whether this was on the very edge of town, or was the building on beyond it, west, or was this… HC: This was right at the edge of town. See, at that time, Bristow was just a small, little small place. And, there, there was, it was just a small area there, about four blocks around there. HK: Yeah. Yeah. HC: And when you got past the Roland, where the Roland Hotel is now, where the livery stable was, you was getting out in the country. His livery stable was right at the edge of what was the community of Bristow. HK: Right. Well, did he supply, do you know, did he supply, he supplied rigs, uh, which I suppose was a buggy and a team, or maybe a buggy and one horse, I don't know. Did he also supply team and wagons to haul equipment with? HC: No, he had hacks, what they call hacks and buggies. HK: Yeah. Used the hacks. HC: And, he didn't do that, but there was people there later on that did. Now my Grandfather Chapman, he, when he came from Chandler over there and settled at this place, he had, three, three teams and he was a freighter from Guthrie to Bristow. And it'd take him about six or seven days to go to Guthrie and come back with a load of groceries. HK: He picked up freight. HC: Yeah, he picked up freight at the depot there for, uh, Jim Jackson grocery and Jim Bogle grocery and, Hamilton (ph) and, Harrington (Wilbur Harrington) and Wolfe (L.M. Wolfe). Wolfe and Harrington. That's early day Abrahams. He hauled freight for Abrahams. HK: Why in the world would he go to Guthrie instead of, say, to Tulsa? Was there not a railhead? HC: Well there was no railhead here. HK: No railhead in Tulsa. HC: No, no, Guthrie was the only railhead. HK: Guthrie was it. HC: See, Guthrie was it because there was no railheads in Tulsa. And, then when they did get a railhead to Drumright, uh, a little later on, and he cut his haul from Guthrie to Drumright to Bristow. But then, when they, it was later than that when, they got, seems as though the problem was getting across the river. I don't think… HK: Probably right. You're probably right. HC: There's a railhead here, but it's on this side of the river, on the north side of the river. He couldn't get across the river with his rigs to pick up the groceries. HK: Right, but he couldn’t go to Guthrie. HC: He couldn’t go to Guthrie, and that was way back in early, early days. HK: Yeah. Well, I, there must have been a, a railhead at Drumright then before there was in Bristow. HC: Yeah, I think there was. I think there was a railhead at, Drumright, either that or, some, someone had a, a freight line from Guthrie to Drumright because a little later on, after he started his trade work there, why, he shortened the route from Guthrie to Drumright and Drumright to Bristow. HK: As far as you know, was there anybody else hauling, doing the same kind of work? Or was, he the sole supplier for the grocery stores? I mean, he was the freight man. HC: Yeah, he at that time was the freight man there in, in Bristow. HK: And the only one. HC: And the only one, because I think he was the only one that had the stuff to do it with. HK: Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised. HC: And that's, and that was it there. HK: Well, then did, after the railroad came in, and I don't really know what year that was either, did he get into other kind of hauling then? HC: Oh, yes, he got into other kind of hauling even before, uh, even while he was hauling from Guthrie over here. He sold sand that he dug out of the Sand Creek bottom on his farm there. All the sidewalks in Bristow on all the concrete streets in Bristow, has got sand that was hauled, that he hauled in from there into Bristow to the contractor that put the cement for the sidewalks and the concrete streets down. HK: So that brings up another thing. All the brick streets in Bristow are bound to be on a bed of sand. HC: Yeah he furnished their sand. HK: And, and I've asked Arthur Foster, and everybody else I can think of, where in the world did the bricks come from? Did they come from Sapulpa, Stroud, Tulsa, Guthrie? Did you ever hear anybody say? HC: I've never heard anybody say where the bricks came from, but they, I think I never, I can't tell you for sure, Harlan, but now the sand, I know where the sand came from, it came from my granddad's farm. He hauled it in there. HK: Well, there was enough of it there. HC: Yeah, there was plenty of it there because, right out there at that area, there's about 10 acres of, of the prettiest golden grain sand that you've ever seen. HK: I'll agree with you. I've been out there and it is good lookin sand. HC: And, he, he sold it, I think he delivered a yard and a half into town for $3. HK: And I suppose that all the loading and unloading was done with just the old long-handled shovels? HC: Long-handled shovels, and they finally got, they finally got smart and put 2x8’s down in the wagon bed and so that they could lift them up and turn them and dump the sand out on the ground instead of having to shovel it out. But it took two or three years for them to figure that out. But, that was it. Now getting back to this hauling. HK: Yeah. HC: There's, when the oil fields came into Bristow, the, my dad went into the, well, my dad, helped my grandfather haul from Guthrie over to Bristow, and he had his own team. And when the oil fields started coming in around Drumright, why, he'd go from Bristow to Drumright and do, uh, teaming from one well to the other, haul the tools from one well, because he didn't have trucks, and they all had to be moved by teams. And my dad was a teaming contractor, and my granddad was, my uncle was too. And in Bristow there was five different oil field teaming contractors there, and one was a fella that moved from Drumright over to Bristow. His name was Doc Martin (Howard “Doc” Martin), and his barn was right where your office used to be before he moved over on 9th Street. HK: On 7th Street. HC: On 7th Street. And, at one time, why, he had a fire there and burned up a lot of horses. HK: My goodness. HC: Right there on, where your oil company office used to sit. Then right across the street from where your office is now, L.C. Jones started out in the teaming business right there. HK: That would be on 9th Street just east of the railroad tracks. HC: East of the railroad tracks and east of the gin. HK: Right. East of the gin. HC: Back there where the old Wilcox Oil Company had a little gasoline rack. HK: Yeah. HC: Between Charles’ house and the gin. HK: Right. HC: L.C. Jones started there. And then he migrated on to Seminole and then Elliot McCutcheon was another one of the L.C. Jones, you know, became one of the largest trucking contractors in the United States. HK: Oh, is that now Jones Truck Line? HC: No, that's, you're thinking about the Jones Truck Line here. It's the Jones Truck Line that, that used to be at Oklahoma City. HK: Oh, yes. HC: It was L.C. Jones Trucking. HK: So he went from teams right on into trucks? HC: He went right on from teams into trucks. My dad did the same thing. HK: Yeah. HC: And, Alex McCutcheon (ph). He left Bristow at midnight, broke, owing everybody in town. And he left and he didn't stop till he got to Kilgore, Texas. He moved his teams out, lock, stock, and barrel at midnight. HK: Right. HC: Left old Basil Henson with a big feed bill, and he, uh, he got down to Kilgore and went from teams to trucks and from trucks to the, he was one of the Texas millionaires now. His sons are, he's dead, but his sons, he went from teams to trucks to oil and he's one of the large millionaires in Texas. HK: He started out in Bristow broke. HC: He left Bristow broke. A lot of them did. HK: Yeah. HC: And there was a, oh, any number of teaming contractors there in the early days. But, getting back to the early Bristow, uh, at 7th Street and Main Street, on each corner there was a bank. And, when, they first started there, there was no pavement. It was all dirt other than this water tank sitting out for the horses sitting out in the middle of the street. When you walked across the street, why, you'd have to walk in mud. HK: Yeah, right. HC: And, so they finally decided they'd put crosswalks from each side, east to west there. HK: Right, HC: And north to south there at that corner. HK: Yeah. They did that at Seventh Street before they did it at sixth Street then? HC: Yeah. Oh yeah, Seventh Street was, really it, the center of town. It was the center of the town because, there wasn't any, much activity down further. When you go down past Sixth Street, why, by golly, you was getting kind of out of town again. HK: Getting out of town already. HC: Yeah, and at that time, so, my grandfather hauled the sand in off the place there and they built these things over there. That was way, way early. And I can remember when they decided to pave the streets, the main street there, but they wanted somebody to haul these crosswalks out of there. HK: Yeah, get them out of the way. HC: Yeah, get them out of the way. My grandfather went in and loaded them up on a wagon to haul them out to his place and they're still out there. He's still got them. HK: No kidding? You mean they're still out there? HC: They're still out there. They're still out there. HK: Maybe I better go out and take a picture. HC: Well, we'll, as soon as I can get down there. How quick would you want to take a picture? HK: Oh, anytime that you happen to be down, why, we'll go take a picture. HC: I, you know I'll, I'm fouled up here. As soon as I get squared up where I can drive the car and get down there, well, we'll go out there and we'll take a picture of that. HK: I’d like to do that. HC: And because, they’re early history big boy. HK: Yeah. HC: There wasn't but, one, one, two, three, four of them. It was all the crosswalks there was in Bristow at that time. HK: And where do they, did they ever build wooden sidewalks in Bristow? HC: Oh, wooden sidewalks was before… HK: Before the crosswalks. HC: Before the crosswalks, but they didn't cross the streets. They just built a, they just built them in front of the businesses that was there. HK: Yeah, in front of the businesses. HC: But, because the wagons were bringing cotton and freight in would bust the wooden ones down if they went across it. So, they just built them in front of the stores there. HK: Yeah. HC: And, that was, pretty interesting. I wouldn't change my life in any way coming along because we, I came from the horse and buggy days right on up to putting a man on the moon. HK: Right. HC: And we, Harlan, we are living in the most advanced age of time right now. HK: It's amazing. It's mind boggling, really. HC: It really is. Well, getting back to Bristow, there's an old fella down there that the Bristow people will know. And his name, they called him Dad Senter. And he did more for Bristow along, all of the young ones knew him. He sold produce there, garden stuff. He raised a large family. HK: Senter? HC: Yeah, S E N T E R. HK: S E N T E R. HC: Dad Senter. Okay, he had, I believe one, two, three sons and maybe a daughter or two. Henry Senter, he, his wife was postmaster there. He was postmaster until he died. He got burned in a gasoline explosion. HK: So Dora was his wife. HC: Dora was his wife. HK: Dora was Henry's wife. HC: Dora was Henry's wife. Then Alvin was, uh, Dad Senter's son. He was street commissioner there for Bristow when they did the street work with the horse and mules. And, old Dad Senter, he, started out, why in the summertime, while he'd, he'd, had an old hack and he had little bells on his horse. He'd get ice cream and go down the street. He was the first ice cream peddler. He was a Good Humor man. He was the first Good Humor man. HK: First Good Humor man. HC: Then when the Depression came along, the old gentleman went downtown. Everybody was on starvation there. I say everybody, not everybody, but the biggest part of the people. HK: Everybody was pretty hard up. HC: Pretty hard up. HK: We remember that. HC: And, there was a lady there who ran a little hotel. It's about where Shamus’ Grocery, I mean, Shamus’ Dry Goods Store is, upstairs. I believe her name was Maltby. Maltby Rooms (ph). And the people didn't think very much of her. They all wanted to run her out of town and all that stuff. Because, see, her hotel wasn't just exactly what it was meant to be. HK: You wouldn't call it real high class. HC: Well, no, it wasn't a high-class hotel. People didn't think very much of her. HK: Right. HC: But, uh, she owned that building. She paid for that building. She owned the building downstairs. She owned the rooms upstairs. And there was a, I believe, a car agency in the place down under there, but it all went broke and under depression and had to leave and go get out of there. Dad Senter went down and asked her if she would mind if he used that building. She asked him what he wanted it for. He said he wanted to put in a soup kitchen. HK: Yeah. HC: And she said, well now, where are you gonna get the stuff to do this work with? HK: Make this stuff. Make you soup. HC: He said, well, never mind, I'll get it. She said, well, I've got an old stove up here. We'll just take it down, we'll hook it up. This old lady paid the gas bill for the stove and furnished this building. HK: Yeah. HC: Dad Senter would get up at daylight and go downtown and, with baskets, he carried on his arm, he'd go around the stores where they'd cut leaf off of cabbage or celery that was bad. They'd give it to him and he'd take it there and dump it and go get more. And then he'd, after he made the rounds of the little, place there, he'd go down and he'd make soup out of all the stuff he got. He'd get everything. He'd get a dog bone, he'd take it down, he'd make soup out of it. And about , people had come down with five, five pound lard buckets to get that soup. HK: He made that much? HC: He made... HK: Five pound lard buckets? HC: You know, five pound, five pound buckets. Okay, they'd come down, and Harlan and I have seen them lined up there from the center of that block up to the Community State Bank back to the alley. From the center of that block down to 5th Street up to Braces Electric place. HK: Gracious. HC: During the Depression. HK: And he gave it away. HC: He gave it away. HK: I'll be darned. HC: That old man, he saved a lot of people's hides down there. And if you'd go up to some of those people and say, my goodness, I saw you in the soup line back in 1928 and 29, they'd want shoot you now. But now, he, did it now. HK: Yeah. Well that it was a, great thing for Bristow. HC: It was, a good thing he did it. HK: Yeah. And it was great for him. HC: Yeah. He enjoyed doing it. He enjoyed doing it. He was a swell old man. He lived up on Sixth Street. Do you remember where this guy used to run his junkyard south of town? He lived between Oak and the next street west on 6th on the north side of the street, about the middle of the block. HK: Oh, the junkyard that used to be on Chestnut. Ben Arcader. HC: Ben Arcader. HK: Right. HC: Dad Senter lived where Ben Arcader did. HK: Yeah. HC: But not in the house that was there now. HK: Yeah. HC: It was house they built. HK: Yeah. HC: And that, Dad Senter did a lot for Bristow and for the people in Bristow during the hard times. HK: Well, let's get back to some of your early school and after your grade school, after your grade school, uh, was there a junior high school in Bristow at the time you went into the seventh grade? HC: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. There was a junior high school there. It was where the junior high school was right back of the old high school building. HK: Yeah. HC: There on 9th Street at the back of the 9th Street, the big, square high school building that's there now. It used to be the high school. That was junior high school. HK: That was junior high school in there. HC: Yes, sir. HK: Was the old, we, when I was in school, we called it the old band building. It was between, it was a, I believe a three-story brick building, uh, on 10th Street in, in the block that all the schools are in now in between Edison and the, what was the junior high school when I went to school, was that building there when you went to junior high school? HC: Yes, it was, but they tore it down, along in there, I believe after I…that building stayed there until after I got out of high school. HK: Yeah, because it was there when I graduated from high school in ‘37. HC: Yeah. HK: And it was still there then. HC: Yeah. Well, it was still there until, it was, I guess, about the World War II time they tore it down. HK: Must have been. HC: You see, the Edison School was here. And here was this, building we're talking about. Now that used to be the old Bristow High School building. HK: That's what I wondered. What was it used for? HC: That was the old Bristow High School building. HK: That was the high school. HC: That was the high school. HK: Oh, great. HC: That was the high school before any of the rest of the schools was there. HK: Yeah. HC: And, we, they used it, the, they used it for, well, we had DeMolay meetings there. And we had boy scout meetings there in the basement. And while we was going on, they had quit using it for class rooms. The Edison School was here and the Junior High School building was here. And the High School building was that big three-story building or double-story building where it is now. HK: What year did you graduate from high school? HC: I should have graduated in high school in 1930, but I left school when I was a junior and went over to A&amp ; amp ; M College. Took special entrance examination and went in college to study, uh, dairy husbandry and butter making, cheese making, ice cream making. HK: Right. HC: And, everything was going real good then. And the depression hit and I had to drop out. So I came back. Went back to school and I think it was 1930 I graduated. I graduated with Arthur Foster and those guys. And I believe your sister was in that class. HK: I think my older sister was in that class. HC: Yeah, she was in that class. HK: Okie doke. Well, your dad was in the teaming and trucking business. HC: He was in the teaming and trucking business. HK: Didn't you work with him for a while in, in that part of the business before you, uh, went out on your own? HC: Yes, I've worked, I helped him drive teams on, in the summertime. He had three teams and, when school was out in the summer when I was, uh, around 11 or 12 years old, he would fire a skinner and I'd drive the team. HK: Yeah. HC: Through the summer months. HK: Yeah. HC: Then, when school started, why, he’d hire another fella to drive the team, and I'd go to back school. HK: You'd go to school, and he'd take your place. HC: Yeah. Then when Christmas vacation would come, why, I’d help my dad and go with the teams. It's funny, we'd leave, all the way at four o'clock in the morning, and get back eight, nine, ten, sometimes midnight. HK: How far away did you, how wide a range did you cover? HC: Well, my dad would, uh, normally, Slick, which would be eight or ten miles. HK: Right. HC: And do whatever they had to do and then get back. And there's times when he had to be Slick at daylight, why he had to leave Bristow along about three o'clock in the morning. HK: So you'd be out to Slick by daylight. HC: Yeah, I'd be out to Slick at daylight because it took about, two or two and a half hours to get out there in a wagon. And, the times we'd work up at Drumright, it'd take, we'd leave, Bristow about 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning, and it'd be up in the evening before we'd get to Drumright, and then we'd have to stay, we'd have to bunk down under the wagon at night and do our work. It was a two-day operation. HK: Two-day operation to get to Drumright. HC: Do some work up there. HK: How did he find out where he was supposed to go? Did he have a telephone? HC: Well, back, at first he didn't. Because the telephone system wasn't large enough to reach out to our house where we lived. HK: Right. It couldn't get out there. That’s what I wondered. It didn’t come out there yet. HC: It didn't come out there yet. And, finally, and, it didn't get out there till about 19, oh, 16 or 17. Yeah, we got, telephone out there. HK: Right. HC: Because when the war was over, World War I, why, they called and told us the war was over and this that and the other. HK: So you remember the telephone. By the time the war was over, you did have a telephone. HC: We did have it by the time World War I was over, we did have a telephone. And before then, whoever Dad was working for would get on a horse and ride out there and tell them where to go. HK: Ah, I see. HC: You see the tool pushers and, and the people looking and supervisors had horses. They rode horses. They didn't have automobiles then. HK: Well, he had, he helped move the strings of tools from well to well then at Slick and Drumright both. HC: Oh yeah, Slick, Drumright, Sapulpa, Kellyville, all around. HK: Did he haul lumber, any lumber that you remember to build those rigs, all those old wooden derricks out of Slick? HC: Yes, sir. He hauled a lot of them out of Slick. And at 8th Mile Corner where, used to be, not Singer, but yeah, Singer, Citron's (ph) place. He hauled all the derricks out there then. HK: Did he? HC: For them from Bristow… HK: Yeah. HC: He hauled from the lumber yard is sitting where, right across the street from J&amp ; amp ; J Cafe was the, main lumberyard there in Bristow. HK: Right. I can remember that. HC: And, when, he had hauled stuff from there to Slick and from there to different places. I can remember, uh, we hauled, and when I was about, I wasn't drive, big enough to drive a team for him then. We hauled the lumber from that lumberyard out to, a well, about, uh, four miles north of Bristow, there at Sinclair built, and you own that well now. HK: We own the well right now. Yeah, we do. HC: And by golly, it's on the west side of the highway, and it was in the middle of a cornfield when we hauled that rig out there. And there's an old board derrick and this was Sinclair Oil Company. But there's a lot of history around Bristow there that... HK: Did he have these, did he have these big wide tired wagons there? They had their low wheel on them. Seemed to me like they were oil filled wagons and the wheel was about four, three and a half feet diameter. And the tread on them must have been twelve to fourteen inches wide. HC: You're, thinking about the boiler wagon. HK: That's the boiler wagon. HC: Eight, eight wheels on them. HK: Right. HC: Big wide wheels. The regular wagons, it took one team of horses to pull that wagon. It was so heavy. HK: Right. HC: And bulky. My dad had a team of horses and he worked on what they call the wheelers, which was one that's hooked up to the tongue and right onto the wagon, and he had two other that he put out in the front, which would be a six up, what they call a six up. HK: Yeah. HC: And, he'd, he'd hook up that deal. If he got an extra big boiler or extra heavy load, then he'd call, go over to his dad's and get two teams of his. HK: Two teams from him. HC: Yeah. And we, there's times when we had, that I've seen, that he had six pairs of horses out in front of that boiler wagon. HK: That's a pretty good sized boiler wagon. HC: Yeah, it is. Well, it didn't make any difference about the size of the boiler. The deal was the terrain you had to... HK: Well, that's true. Some of it was pretty rough. HC: And it was rough and some of it was soft. It's a lot softer than it is now. HK: Well, when we have as much work to do in making a location in the times that we're working in right now. We have bulldozers, and we have backhoes if we need them, and we can move that dirt around. We can actually move the dirt and scrape it away and make roads. And yet, you see some of the places where they build these wells, back in the late teens and in the twenties, and it makes you wonder how in the world they got there in the first place. HC: That's right. And you'll have to remember those old boys was pretty, pretty salty. They was pretty smart to take what they had to work with and get done what they got done. HK: They really did. They really were. HC: And, I've been out with my dad when we’d have to take a plow and a team, and where they'd build a sludge pit, well, they'd have to plow this dirt and then take a slip or fresno and scoop it over to make the rim. Then you'd have to get in there and plow again. HK: Plow it again. And move it out. HC: Move it out again. And it'd take, sometimes three, four days to build a sludge pit at this well. HK: Well, did you stay out on the job, at that time? You just stayed there and you got it done. HC: That's right. HK: Cooked on the job. HC: Batched and whatever. And I can remember back in the early day, when Davenport was on the boom, why, Dad did an awful lot of work over there for Magnolia. And it was a day over there, and he'd stay three or four days, well, somebody'd have to take him oats and hay for his teams. HK: Right. HC: And, these, these teams, the teams that he had, the team that he drove, each one of those horses weighed a ton. 2,000 pounds. HK: 2,000 pound horses. HC: And they took a bushel of oats each to feed them. HK: Gracious. HC: And they, he fed them three times a day. HK: Well, he was working them hard, so he had to feed them good. Right. HC: And at night he'd, he'd, bale, throw the baled hay down for them a bed, and then he'd fix a place for them to have hay to eat while they, was sleeping and resting. If they wanted to eat hay, there's hay there for them. HK: Right. HC: And it, took, take a load of hay. I've seen them when they get ready to go out to make a location at around where they couldn't drive back and forth, he'd take a load of hay and a load of oats and a load of food. HK: Right. HC: And go out there and we’d stay there… HK: Until you got the job done. HC: Got the job done. HK: Do you remember the first well that you ever saw drilling, where it was? A drilling well? HC: Yes, I do. It was number one Red Bank, and it was out east of my dad, on the farm out there. And it was half a mile east of our house. Dad would put me on his back. I'd piggyback over there after supper. We'd piggyback over there and sit on the lazy bench and visit with the driller and tool dresser while they was drilling. And it was an old steam cable tool job. And it was, where this place was, it was a mile and a half west of Maye's Corner and three quarters of a mile north. HK: Of Maye’s Corner. HC: Of Maye’s Corner. HK: Right. Maye’s Corner for information is northwest of town. HC: Yes, it's nine, at one time it was nine miles northwest of town, but the roads have shortened now. HK: The roads have changed now. It isn't quite that far. HC: It's not quite that far. HK: Right. HC: But, that's, that's, where it is. Use Maye’s Corner to direct you to the spot. HK: Yeah. Okay. Do you remember, Tim Cushing (ph) used to have an oil field, uh, tool house and machine shop, I guess, on the corner of, just east of railroad tracks, and on 8th Street on the north side of the street where the barbeque, there's a barbeque place in there now. HC: Yes, sir, I remember that place well, because my dad hauled pipe, casing, and tools out of there. And, I knew the old man Tim, and I knew Chester, and I knew the fella that was their business manager. In fact, unless he's died in the last little while, his business manager, he lives here in Tulsa. HK: What was his name? HC: Hopper. HK: Wayne Hopper. HC: Wayne Hopper. HK: Wayne was business manager for Chester and Tim. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0052A_Hyatt_Chapman.xml OHP-0052A_Hyatt_Chapman.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hyatt Chapman - Part 1 Description An account of the resource In this 1979 interview with Hyatt Chapman, he and Harlan Krumme discuss his Chandler homestead, the Bristow jail, school life, his grandfather, teaming contractors for the oil industry, Dad Senter, Tol Foster, Alfalfa Bill Murry and a host of other Bristow characters. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0052A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-08-02 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/7775a6b84593e47aeaa2b71eb7baf3fe.jpg 9e78304aec7410afa4bac86eddb8ac7f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Early Drilling Near Bristow Subject The topic of the resource Oral Histories of Drilling in the early 1900s Description An account of the resource Oral accounts of drilling for oil and natural gas near Bristow in the early 1900s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Harlan Krumme Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hyatt Chapman OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0052B_Hyatt_Chapman.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 August 2, 1979 OHP-0052B Hyatt Chapman - Part 2 OHP-0052B 00:41:22 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Hyatt Chapman Harlan Krumme 1:|26(14)|62(5)|85(3)|104(11)|132(11)|151(16)|170(12)|178(17)|201(4)|224(6)|243(3)|273(3)|293(4)|316(4)|335(16)|364(5)|391(9)|412(6)|432(11)|453(11)|480(5)|505(8)|537(13)|557(11)|586(3)|605(11)|627(18)|652(4)|666(12)|684(8)|709(3)|735(14)|753(5)|775(16)|787(8)|822(11)|823(5)|824(15)|847(7)|871(10)|899(13)|915(18)|940(11)|949(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0052B Chapman, Hyatt.mp3 Other audio 0 Pluggin Oil Wells HK: It was some kind of a fishing job. He could make a tool to fish it out.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: To fish it out, and he could tell you how to run it, and you could go out there and run it like he told you, and you could get your job done.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Now Chester (Chester Cushing), his son came along. Chester was equally as well with building the tool and telling him how to run it. Chester could take the tool out, and he couldn’t run it. He just couldn’t get ‘er done. But he could tell you how to run it.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: But he could tell you how to do it.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: He could build it and tell you how to run it, but he couldn’t go out and do it. And he, I plugged a well for Chester right south of Bristow there that he and his wife drilled. &#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Did you plug that hole for him?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: I plugged that hole for him.&#13 ; Hyatt talks in detail about the process of plugging wells and how many he had plugged while in business. steam kettle tool rig ; Bartlesville (Okla.) ; Oklahoma Corporation Commission ; oil well ; cable rig oil wells ; plugging oil wells 0 610 Bristow's First Gas Well HC: And that’s what made the thing bad. But getting back to the oil and gas wells at Bristow on my dad’s place was the first gas well that was ever drilled around Bristow anywhere. &#13 ; &#13 ; HK: And it supplied gas?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: It supplied gas to the City of Bristow.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: To the City of Bristow.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: And the cotton gins in Bristow burned gas from this well. And it, they finally, when a fellow named Wolfe and Freeland one or two others formed the Bristow Gas Company. And they used this gas from this well. Then Oklahoma Natural came in and they gave the franchise to Oklahoma Natural, then they didn’t use this little well anymore. But it was the first gas well in that part of the country.&#13 ; Hyatt tells about the first gas well in Bristow being located on his grandfather's property east of Bristow. gas well ; Bristow Gas Company ; Oklahoma Natural Gas ; Sand Creek gas well 0 741 Life During the Depression HK: Well with the price gas is now, it makes it a worthwhile venture. Okay, then you went through high school and graduated from high school and worked with your father then between high school and WWII.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Well, now, my father, I worked for him until the Depression. When the Depression came, why he had men with families that was on starvation.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: And I had something to eat, and they didn’t, so, I didn’t work for my dad from then on. He kept the family men working so that they could feed their families.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Right.&#13 ; Hyatt remembers hard times and what it was like trying to live during The Great Depression. The Great Depression ; Texas A &amp ; M College ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; oil boom The Great Depression 0 922 Car Prices HK: How’d you travel back to Bristow? Were you able to afford a car?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: I had an old junker. An old clunker.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Your own automobile.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yeah, but then, you could go and buy a real good car for $300.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah. Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Brand new Ford would cost you about six, six and a quarter.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: I have a receipt in the office where my father bought a Model-T Ford in Okemah, brand new, for $295.&#13 ; Hyatt talks about car prices and his first car. Ford Model-T ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Ford Model-A first car ; car prices 0 1029 Influential Bristow Citizens HK: Well, do you remember as you were growing up, anybody else outstanding that you thought was an outstanding person at that time? With community spirit and all that sort of stuff. And certainly, Mr. Senter had community spirit or he wouldn’t have done anything like that.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Oh yeah. He devoted his time, but at this time, he was like 70-years-old at the time he was doing this.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Oh! He was that old?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yeah, he was 68 or 70-years-old.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Because, see, his sons is all dead, and I’m sure…I think he had one daughter. She’s pretty well dead. But getting back to the early day, Jim Jackson and Jim Fogle, they were merchants there. Farhas (Ellis L. Farha, William E. [Bill] Farha) were merchants. And they uh, fella named Grimes (Stimpson R. Grimes) had the furniture store there, Ford. Not the Ford Hardware there now. It’s his father. And they were all pretty good people. List, Old Man List (Lester M. List), his boys all come along about my age.&#13 ; Hyatt recalls some of the most influential Bristow citizens back in the early days. Jim Jackson ; Jim Fogle ; Ellis L. Farha ; William E. (Bill) Farha ; Stimpson R. Grimes ; Lester M. List ; Stanley Henson ; Earl Dwyer ; LeeRoy McMurtry ; Albert W. McMurtry ; Mike Foreman influential Bristow citizens 0 1180 Father's First Truck HK: Do you remember, do you remember the year your dad bought his first truck?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yes, 1927.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: 1927.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yes sir. And it was…&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: What kind of truck was it?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: It was a Chevrolet. And he bought that Chevrolet in 1927 and he hired, now here’s the switch. 1927 he bought the truck and he drove the team himself. Now he had a team that he drove and nobody touched those lines, don’t nobody touch that team. Nobody went up and got on that wagon. &#13 ; Hyatt talks about his father's first truck. Chevrolet ; Dodge first truck 0 1283 Team Horses HC: His team. And 1928 when he bought the second truck, he decided he would retire the team. And he drove the horses into the yard, unharnessed them, put them in the barn, and every day he cut one bushel of oats down. He’d feed them a bushel of oats of a morning and a bushel of oats at night and two bales of hay. And he retired them. And this was in 1928.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: I’ll be darn.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: He sold the rest of the horses, but…&#13 ; HK: Kept that team.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: He kept that team. And that team from 1928, when I went over seas, one horse was still alive.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Is that right?&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: He was 34-years-old.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Holy cow!&#13 ; Hyatt talks in depth about his father's team horses. team horses ; Carney (Okla.) ; Ford T-Model team horses 0 1485 Brick Streets HK: Do you remember the old dirt streets, about where…&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yeah, I remember the dirt, mud streets.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: About what year did they put those bricks down? Seemed to me like I asked Arthur (Arthur Foster) and Arthur wasn’t sure.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: I would say it was in, they started putting them down before WWII, I mean one, WWI. Before WWI. Now I can’t say exactly, but I would say there are some in there, some of those streets was in there in 1915 or ’16.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Because I was about four or five-years-old, and my grandad was hauling that sand in there, and there was a contractor, cement man in there by the name of Fielder. And if you look around the streets, you’ll see many…&#13 ; Hyatt remembers the dirt streets and when they bricked the streets. brick streets ; Arthur Foster ; A. Fielder brick streets 0 1616 Cotton Gins HK: Yeah. I have heard, and I don’t know how true this is, that at one time, and I don’t know what year this was, there were actually eight cotton gins in Bristow at one time. But that was before my time.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Excuse me, it was…excuse me, now it might have been, I might have missed one or two, but to my recollection, I can count for sure…well, Abrahams had two, Kellys had one, and there was some other people had one. And then the one over there by your place.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah there was one across the street from my office, and one where John Bishop…&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Oh, Friersons, Friersons. Friersons had one.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Friersons had one, right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: They had the cotton seed mill there.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: I can remember five myself.&#13 ; Hyatt and Harlan discuss all the different cotton gins they remember back in the early days.&#13 ; cotton gins ; John Andrew Anderson ; Anderson's Mill cotton gins 0 1725 Oil Supply Companies HK: Yeah. Do you remember how many oil field supply houses there were in Bristow? I remember National Supply Company was where Martin Pound Drilling Company is now. Oil Well Supply was immediately east of them across the railroad tracks.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Okay, just north of the Oil Well was Republic and just, let’s see, across the railroad tracks from where your office is, the light company’s got a building there. Right across there was the old Frick Reid (ph) building.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Oh Frick-Reid, now Jones and Loughlin (ph).&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Jones and Loughlin, Frick-Reid. Then down on first, there was three or four. I say there was possibly eleven or twelve.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Oil field supply stores.&#13 ; Hyatt discusses the different oil supply companies that were important to Bristow's oil history. National Supply Company ; Martin Pound Drilling ; Frick-Reid oil supply companies 0 1802 Railroads HK: Down where it started up there at Bristow. Started off of the Frisco.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Frisco track at Bristow.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Frisco track at Bristow, and there were supply houses along that railroad at the beginning of that then.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And where old Sinclair place is there, Arco (ph) yard is there now, used to be an oil field supply store.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: It did. It was also.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Yeah, it was also. Then along the railroad track there, there was pipe yards and supply stores, and I say there was eleven or twelve.&#13 ; Hyatt remembers the different railroads and how they affected Bristow history. Frisco Railroad ; Sinclair Oil ; Nuyaka (Okla.) ; Slick (Okla.) ; Jesse Allen ; Tom Slick ; B.B. Jones ; Drumright (Okla.) ; R.L. Jones railroads 0 2029 Tough Bristow Characters HC: That’s right. And on this, getting back to early day Bristow, there used to be a bunch of tough characters around here. Boy, I mean they was rough, rough individuals. And there wasn’t hardly a week went by that somebody didn’t shoot somebody or kill somebody there.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Yeah.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: And back when the banks had to run on the banks right after WWI, my uncle’s father, his name was Inman. He was a rough old character, and he wore an overcoat summer and winter. And in them overcoat pockets, he carried two old thumb-busters. He and his boys, my uncle and his brother and the old man hauled their cotton into Bristow and sold it. And at the gins they took the money up and he did, he did business with the Yakish Brothers’ bank (Robert W. Yakish of Bristow National Bank). I don’t remember what that bank is, where the American National Bank used to be.&#13 ; Hyatt remembers the tough characters that were around Bristow. Robert W. Yakish ; Bristow National Bank 0 2107 Bristow Banks HK: Yeah, on the corner of 7th. Oh it was across the street from…&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: Across the street from American National Bank.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: There used to be four banks there.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: On each corner had a bank. Now the First National Bank was here and, I don’t remember what American National Bank, it wasn’t American National Bank back then.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Wasn’t American then, no.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: And the Yakish Brothers, I don’t remember what their bank was, and the other bank, I don’t remember it. But the Groom’s owned the First National Bank. That was where McMillian’s office is.&#13 ; Hyatt remembers the banks located at 7th and Main Street. First National Bank ; American National Bank ; Robert W. Yakish ; A. Fielder banks 0 2373 Judge William H. Herman, Uncle Billy Freshour &amp ; John Prince HC: His dad was a judge (Judge William H. Herman), there, back in the early day and he was Chief of Police back there. And he was a pretty, he was a great big fat fella. He was a husky guy. And he might have some pictures of the town.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: I’ll ask him.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: John Price, he may have some. I don’t know. And some of the old buildings down at Bristow, down where the original Church of God is now, it’s on third street.&#13 ; &#13 ; HK: Right.&#13 ; &#13 ; HC: And whatever street that is, Uncle Billy Freshour’s old house was a block north there, and it’s on the north side of fourth street there. But it’s about a two-story house. It’s an old house.&#13 ; &#13 ; Hyatt tells about a few more notable characters from the early days of Bristow. William H. Herman ; Uncle Billy Freshour ; John Prince ; U.S. Marshal Notable Bristow characters 0 MP3 Hyatt continues this 1979 interview discussing plugging wells, Bristow’s first gas well, early merchants, brick streets, oil supply companies and the railroad, and the many tough Bristow characters. HK: It was some kind of a fishing job. He could make a tool to fish it out. HC: To fish it out, and he could tell you how to run it, and you could go out there and run it like he told you, and you could get your job done. HK: Yeah. HC: Now Chester (Chester Cushing), his son came along. Chester was equally as well with building the tool and telling him how to run it. Chester could take the tool out, and he couldn’t run it. He just couldn’t get ‘er done. But he could tell you how to run it. HK: But he could tell you how to do it. HC: He could build it and tell you how to run it, but he couldn’t go out and do it. And he, I plugged a well for Chester right south of Bristow there that he and his wife drilled. HK: Did you plug that hole for him? HC: I plugged that hole for him. HK: Did you, did you happen to be smart enough, I wasn’t smart enough…did you happen to be smart enough to take a picture of the last steam drilled well in the Bristow area? Because that was, that was the last one drilled with a boiler. HC: Yeah, that was the last one around anywhere there. HK: And why I didn’t take some movies of it, I’ll never know, but I didn’t. HC: Well, I didn’t, I didn’t take it. That was the last, that was the last steam rig, steam kettle tool rig. HK: That’s right. HC: After that, there was sputters and this, that and the other, but there wasn’t steam, it was… HK: And Chester and his wife drilled that [indecipherable] by themselves. HC: By themselves. Mrs. Cushing, she fired the boiler for him and would do the odds and ends and Chester, he’d do the drilling and the hard work. She took care of, she got out there and worked just like a man now. HK: I bet she helped him sharpen those bits and [indecipherable]. HC: Yeah, she had to. HK: Yeah. HC: He had to have help because one man couldn’t do it! No sir, one man couldn’t do it. HK: Well, it was too bad that was a dry hole. HC: Well, that wasn’t a dry hole. HK: But it wasn’t a commercial well. It didn’t make a commercial well. HC: Bud, let me tell you something right now. I wish I had that well right now. HK: Well, with frack it might have made a well. HC: When I plugged that well, I went down there and then we didn’t put cement in it, not much. HK: Yeah. HC: Got mud in it. Filled it and shot the pipe. And when I shot the pipe, it blowed the mud out of the hole and it blowed oil all over that derrick, 50 or 60 feet. HK: My goodness. HC: All over, all over the old man’s corn field he had out there. I forget what that old gentleman’s name is that owned it that had the place down there, all over his corn field. And they got, they bradenheaded the five and a half and the seven inch, they bradenheaded it, and got their oil to fire the boiler between the strains of pipe. It flowed between the strains of pipe enough. It wasn’t a big one. HK: But it would have, you’re right, it would have probably made a well. HC: Yeah, it would because of the technology we have now. Then after I plugged that well, there was three other fellas come in and drilled wells around close trying to pick this up. HK: Yeah. HC: But they was trying to pick it up out of the Bartlesville and it didn’t come from the Bartlesville. HK: No, it evidently was not the Bartlesville. Hyatt, do you have any idea, you’ve plugged thousands and thousands of wells, do you have any idea how many you have plugged in and around Bristow. Say around the state pool and the east of Bristow and west and north and south of Bristow. HC: Well… HK: You’ve plugged all over the country. HC: I’m just trying to think. I would say, probably, between 1800-2000. HK: Just in the Bristow area? HC: In the Bristow area. HK: I wouldn’t be at all surprised. HC: See I was in business for 32 years. HK: When did you go into business for yourself? HC: 1947. HK: 1947. Right after WWII. HC: Yeah. I had to stay over in Germany extra time because they declared me essential. And I got home, I worked about four months and I went into business for myself. I got home in ’46 and I went into business in ’47. HK: Well now, Hyatt, being in the oil business myself, I’m familiar with how you go about plugging a well, but I’m sure there are a lot of people that don’t know how you plug a well. Describe this procedure for us. They call you and say, I want to plug a well. Okay, then what do you do? HC: Well, if you would call me and say you wanted me to plug a well for you, the first thing I would have to do is come to your office or get with you for all the records you can supply me with that you have about this well. HK: Right, how much pipe is in it. HC: How much cement was put in and how much pipe it was cemented with and what kind of pipe. Then I would take that record… HK: Now why is it important that you know what kind of pipe is in that well? HC: If I didn’t know what kind of pipe was in that well, I could not pull on that pipe as hard as I should have maybe if I knew what kind it is. HK: Right. HC: Because the pipe could be stuck. It’s not setting in there free. It could be stuck, and you’d have to work it under high pressure. And that pipe will only stand a certain amount of pull. And different grades of pipe will stand more pull than the other. And you take lap weld pipe, you can’t, you can pull one and a half times the weight of it. If it’s good. If it’s not good, why you pull ‘er in two. HK: So it’s important for you to know what kind of pipe it is. HC: It’s important. HK: Okay, after you get all these records and you find out what kind of pipe it is in there, you find out how deep it is, what’s next? HC: Then I call the Corporation Commission man and tell him that I want to plug this well and I want to know his requirements on what he will require for the plugging of it. He will tell me how much cement to pump in the bottom of it. I’ll have to have a Haliburton type truck. I’ll have to mix cement with and haul it with rubber gloves and heavy mud pumped down to below the cement on the outside of the pipe. That’s the reason I have to know how cement is on the outside of the pipe, so I will know where to put cement on the inside of it. Then you run a, do that, you get your tension [indecipherable] pipe. If you know the area, why you don’t have to work [indecipherable] you go in there and shoot the pipe in two with nitroglycerin, and then pull your pipe up 50 feet below the fresh water zone. Now the fresh water zone will be supplied to me from the Corporation Commission man. He will have his chart there where he wants fresh water plugged. Here again, we will pump cement in with a Haliburton type truck and till it circulates. We will dress the pipe out, tear it down and move out and put a cement cap on the top of it and turn it back to you, and you can cover it up, and turn it back to farming. HK: This procedure then protects the producing zones that produced oil and, perhaps, salt water, it has cement covering that. And then it protects the fresh water from contamination by cement plug from below all fresh water clear to the surface of the ground. HC: That’s correct. HK: And it’s a pretty good procedure and it’s too bad all wells weren’t plugged that way. HC: If all wells was plugged that way, we would have a lot more natural gas wells. We would have more oil wells than we have now because in the early day, back in the old steam rig days, when they pulled pipe, they pulled pipe maybe ground a post oak down there or a post down in the top of it and throw a little dirt on the top of it. HK: And that was all of it. HC: And that was all of it. And communications from different zones rounded out to the little gas or little oil that you’d have up the hole. HK: Right. Okay, did you actually start in business in Bristow or were you living in Tulsa at the time you started business? HC: I was living in Tulsa at the time I started in business, but my dad had the home place there in Bristow, and I used that for my yard. His place for my yard. And I started in business at Bristow. And I when I started in business, why, I didn’t have enough money to buy a hamburger. I had to borrow money, and I borrowed money from everybody that would loan me money. And I wound up about $20,000 in the hole before I even got started. HK: Before you ever did anything. HC: That’s right. I started business at Bristow. HK: You started with a hydraulic rig then. HC: Right. HK: And not the old cable tool, cable rig. HC: No. Old cable rig. That’s why our insurance rate was so high was because of the old cable tool rig. They hurt too many people, and they killed too many people. HK: Yeah. They did. They killed a lot of people. HC: And that’s what made the thing bad. But getting back to the oil and gas wells at Bristow on my dad’s place was the first gas well that was ever drilled around Bristow anywhere. HK: And it supplied gas? HC: It supplied gas to the City of Bristow. HK: To the City of Bristow. HC: And the cotton gins in Bristow burned gas from this well. And it, they finally, when a fellow named Wolfe and Freeland one or two others formed the Bristow Gas Company. And they used this gas from this well. Then Oklahoma Natural came in and they gave the franchise to Oklahoma Natural, then they didn’t use this little well anymore. But it was the first gas well in that part of the country. HK: It was eventually plugged, then? HC: It was plugged… HK: It was plugged when you were a youngster or by the time you were, or before you were 15-years-old, say the well was plugged. And you were telling me that it still made gas while you were growing up. HC: Yeah, we’d go down there and the well was supposed to have been plugged but we go down there and strike a match and throw it over there and that well would catch fire. And the creek would get up and flood it out, then we’d have to wait until the creek came up before it flooded it out because that was the only way we could get it out. HK: It would just go ahead and burn all the time. HC: Yeah, it would just burn all the time. It did burn all the time. HK: Until the creek got up and put it out. HC: Put it out. And that’s Sand Creek we are talking about. HK: Right. Talking about Sand Creek there. HC: Yeah. HK: And for your information, as you know, we have discussed, you and I, the possibility of going back in there and drilling down to that gas end and sell some of that gas. HC: We’re gonna do it. HK: We may do it yet. HC: We’re gonna do it. Somebody is with me, I don’t know who, but we’re gonna do it. HK: Well with the price gas is now, it makes it a worthwhile venture. Okay, then you went through high school and graduated from high school and worked with your father then between high school and WWII. HC: Well, now, my father, I worked for him until the Depression. When the Depression came, why he had men with families that was on starvation. HK: Right. HC: And I had something to eat, and they didn’t, so, I didn’t work for my dad from then on. He kept the family men working so that they could feed their families. HK: Right. HC: And I got married about, well I got married right at the time I went to A&amp ; amp ; M College. I got married at that time and then I came home and I went broke and I couldn’t stay in college any longer. I came back, then went back to high school. My last year of high school, I was a married man going to high school. HK: Yeah. Which for those times was very unusual. HC: Yeah, it was very unusual. HK: Right. HC: And after I had to drop out of college, I thought, well, I better get my high school diploma so I’d have something to show because, at that time, if you didn’t get a high school education, you’d starve to death. HK: Right. HC: So I went back and got my high school diploma and worked around there. When I left Bristow, I walked out of… [Pause] HK: You said you left Bristow owing everybody in town. HC: Right. HK: Go ahead. HC: And I went to Oklahoma City. The Oklahoma City field was just starting, and I went into Oklahoma City field and I had, I had before I got up there, dress tools and worked on a drilling rig. And got up to Oklahoma City, well, I went into the oil, followed the oil line up there because there wasn’t anything else to do. HK: Right, it was the biggest thing going at that time. HC: It was the biggest thing going because they’d just drill while [indecipherable] and the boom was on, so that’s what I followed. And I started in the oil business there. And it took me four years of working like trojan to get my debtors paid at Bristow. I come home on the, round the first of the month, and I’d start up one side of the street and go as far as my money would go, then I’d see the others, so I’ll see ya next time. HK: I’ll see ya next month. HC: And I finally got them paid. It took me about four, four and a half years to get them all paid off finally. HK: How’d you travel back to Bristow? Were you able to afford a car? HC: I had an old junker. An old clunker. HK: Your own automobile. HC: Yeah, but then, you could go and buy a real good car for $300. HK: Yeah. Right. HC: Brand new Ford would cost you about six, six and a quarter. HK: I have a receipt in the office where my father bought a Model-T Ford in Okemah, brand new, for $295. HC: Yeah, yeah. HK: And I’ve forgotten the year, but automobiles were cheap. HC: It was probably about 1916 or 17. HK: It could have been. HC: Because my dad bought a Ford touring car with a little extra on it, and I think he give three hundred, little over $300 for it. HK: Little over $300. HC: But then back at the time, I was going from there, I had an automobile, it was a Model-A, Ford Model-A. HK: Yeah. HC: This was in around ’31, ’32, ’33. HK: Right. HC: And [indecipherable] I believe I give three hundred and some dollars, and it was nearly new. HK: Pretty good automobile? HC: Yeah, it was a good automobile. But I battled it. Got all my debtors paid there at Bristow. Didn’t owe none of them, but I walked out of there broke, boy. HK: Well, do you remember any other people that you mentioned Dad Senter being such a help to the people of Bristow. HC: Yep. He was, he was… HK: Well, do you remember as you were growing up, anybody else outstanding that you thought was an outstanding person at that time? With community spirit and all that sort of stuff. And certainly, Mr. Senter had community spirit or he wouldn’t have done anything like that. HC: Oh yeah. He devoted his time, but at this time, he was like 70-years-old at the time he was doing this. HK: Oh! He was that old? HC: Yeah, he was 68 or 70-years-old. HK: Yeah. HC: Because, see, his sons is all dead, and I’m sure…I think he had one daughter. She’s pretty well dead. But getting back to the early day, Jim Jackson and Jim Fogle, they were merchants there. Farhas (Ellis L. Farha, William E. [Bill] Farha) were merchants. And they uh, fella named Grimes (Stimpson R. Grimes) had the furniture store there, Ford. Not the Ford Hardware there now. It’s his father. And they were all pretty good people. List, Old Man List (Lester M. List), his boys all come along about my age. HK: Didn’t the Lists come there to Bristow from somewhere else? HC: They came, they’re not, they’re not real old… HK: Old timers. HC: They’re not real old timers. But Jim Jackson… HK: They are sort of like me. I didn’t show up in Bristow until 1930. HC: Yeah, well, List showed up there, it was in, oh, before ’29. It was in the, about the time the first oil boom hit, hit Bristow. That’s when they come there. HK: I see that’s been the early or middle 20’s then. HC: Yeah, well, getting back to community spirit, I was trying to, that was about it, other than the people around there that was originally there. Getting back to the lumber yards and the rig builders, these old rig builders. There was a lot of rig builders there that, there was McMurtry Brothers (LeeRoy McMurtry, Albert W. McMurtry), and there was Stanley Henson, Earl Dwyer, and Mike Foreman. And there was two or three more there that… HK: Do you remember, do you remember the year your dad bought his first truck? HC: Yes, 1927. HK: 1927. HC: Yes sir. And it was… HK: What kind of truck was it? HC: It was a Chevrolet. And he bought that Chevrolet in 1927 and he hired, now here’s the switch. 1927 he bought the truck and he drove the team himself. Now he had a team that he drove and nobody touched those lines, don’t nobody touch that team. Nobody went up and got on that wagon. HK: Right. HC: You stayed, just keep your hands off. Dad drove that team. He hired a truck driver, 1927-1928. 1928 he bought a ton Dodge. Now this Chevrolet was a ton… HK: Big truck. One ton. HC: Big truck. And he couldn’t, he was hauling cable tools stuff and a 15-inch bit was all you could haul on the truck because it was overloaded if it was any bigger. HK: Well, did he have a winch to load it with? HC: Had a hand winch. HK: Hand winch. HC: Had a hand winch on the side. Then the Dodge had a hub winch on the side. But he’d have to go out here with a block, come up here with a block [indecipherable]. HK: Right. The winch wasn’t attached to the drive shaft like it is now. HC: No. HK: It was either a hub winch or hand winch. HC: Hand winch. HK: Right. HC: The old hand winch was a back breaker. It was a hard deal to operate. That was my job, a swamper’s job on the truck. I ran the hand winch. HK: He would trust somebody to drive his truck for him, but he wouldn’t trust anybody to drive his team. HC: His team. And 1928 when he bought the second truck, he decided he would retire the team. And he drove the horses into the yard, unharnessed them, put them in the barn, and every day he cut one bushel of oats down. He’d feed them a bushel of oats of a morning and a bushel of oats at night and two bales of hay. And he retired them. And this was in 1928. HK: I’ll be darn. HC: He sold the rest of the horses, but… HK: Kept that team. HC: He kept that team. And that team from 1928, when I went over seas, one horse was still alive. HK: Is that right? HC: He was 34-years-old. HK: Holy cow! HC: That old horse was 34-years-old. My dad raised that horse. He weighed 2001 pounds. HK: Was he black? HC: White. HK: White. White horse. HC: Oh boy, I mean the shoes on that feet on there about like that. HK: Gracious. HC: And when he got ready to… HK: Well, that’s about like a Clydesdale, isn’t it? HC: Yeah, it’s as big as a Budweiser horse. HK: Yeah, that’s what I mean, big as a Budweiser horse. HC: And when he decided to go into the teaming business, he started [indecipherable] made for the horse, the one he raised. He went all over the country. He went to Idaho. He went to, went to Nebraska, and he went here, and he went there and he finally found a horse that was nearly what he wanted. Just a young horse. HK: Yeah. HC: Over at Carney, Oklahoma. So he goes over there to get it. And we have this old T-Model Ford. He drives over there that he bought that I mentioned while ago. HK: Yeah. HC: And he goes over there to get it, and to make the deal with the old farmer, and my dad gave him a $1000 for this horse. And he had a halter and a rope on him, and dad said, well, okay, we’ll just take him now. And the old farmer says, well, wait a minute, I’m not going to sell you that halter and rope. I didn’t include that. HK: Just the horse. HC: Just the horse. So, dad said, well, you stay here and hold the horse. You just hold on to that rope ‘till I get back. Well, I got under a shade tree and sat there. And dad had to come all the way from Carney back to Chandler to buy a halter and a rope and get back out there and get the horse. And we led the old horse home, and dad was driving about two mile an hour. HK: Now you didn’t haul the horse home? HC: No, we led him home and he walked! HK: And he walked. HC: He trotted. And my dad didn’t drive but three or four miles per hour in that old Ford. HK: Right. HC: We led the horse home, and he walked, he trotted along behind the car. But the old farmer wouldn’t let…dad offered to buy the bridle. HK: Buy the bridle and the rope, and he wouldn’t sell it. HC: He wouldn’t sell it. HK: Sold the horse. HC: He sold the horse. That’s all I sold ya. I’m not gonna sell you that bridle and halter and rope. HK: Okay, do you remember where the streets bricked in Bristow, from the time you can first remember or at least part of them? HC: Uh, no, they wasn’t… HK: Do you remember the old dirt streets, about where… HC: Yeah, I remember the dirt, mud streets. HK: About what year did they put those bricks down? Seemed to me like I asked Arthur (Arthur Foster) and Arthur wasn’t sure. HC: I would say it was in, they started putting them down before WWII, I mean one, WWI. Before WWI. Now I can’t say exactly, but I would say there are some in there, some of those streets was in there in 1915 or ’16. HK: Yeah. HC: Because I was about four or five-years-old, and my grandad was hauling that sand in there, and there was a contractor, cement man in there by the name of Fielder. And if you look around the streets, you’ll see many… HK: Many of the street corners, there’s A. Fielder. HC: A. Fielder. HK: That’s right. HC: And he was, he was a real good concrete man. And he put the sidewalks in and a lot of the streets and a lot of the brick. HK: And Bristow must have been, at that time in ’16 and ’17, a fairly thriving community and fairly prosperous. HC: It was a thriving and prosperous community because of the cotton. HK: Mainly cotton and corn then. HC: Yeah, cotton and corn. And the cotton gins that was there. There was one, two, three…there was five cotton gins there at one time. HK: Yeah. I have heard, and I don’t know how true this is, that at one time, and I don’t know what year this was, there were actually eight cotton gins in Bristow at one time. But that was before my time. HC: Excuse me, it was…excuse me, now it might have been, I might have missed one or two, but to my recollection, I can count for sure…well, Abrahams had two, Kellys had one, and there was some other people had one. And then the one over there by your place. HK: Yeah there was one across the street from my office, and one where John Bishop… HC: Oh, Friersons, Friersons. Friersons had one. HK: Friersons had one, right. HC: They had the cotton seed mill there. HK: I can remember five myself. HC: Yeah. HK: And I’ve heard that there were eight. HC: Well, there was eight at one time. Then there was some people there named Anderson (John Andrew Anderson) that run the feed mill back in the early day when there was just horse and buggy. And I can remember coming in with my dad from his farm out there at Mayes Corner, we’d come in in the buggy to get groceries, and we’d come in once a week, and it would take all day to come in. We’d bring corn to grind. We’d take it to Anderson’s Mill, and Anderson’s Mill was built right where, right where, you know where the J&amp ; amp ; J Café is? HK: Right. HC: Anderson’s Mill was about the next door down. It wasn’t over at Billy’s there then. It was an old sheet iron building, and they had, they had, they ground meal and wheat and made feed. HK: Yeah. Do you remember how many oil field supply houses there were in Bristow? I remember National Supply Company was where Martin Pound Drilling Company is now. Oil Well Supply was immediately east of them across the railroad tracks. HC: Okay, just north of the Oil Well was Republic and just, let’s see, across the railroad tracks from where your office is, the light company’s got a building there. Right across there was the old Frick Reid (ph) building. HK: Oh Frick-Reid, now Jones and Loughlin (ph). HC: Jones and Loughlin, Frick-Reid. Then down on first, there was three or four. I say there was possibly eleven or twelve. HK: Oil field supply stores. HC: Yeah, oil field supply stores. And that’s, there was a bunch of them, man, there was a bunch of them. When they had the Slick railroad, they had a bunch of the supply house out along old Slick railroad. HK: Down where it started up there at Bristow. Started off of the Frisco. HC: Frisco track at Bristow. HK: Frisco track at Bristow, and there were supply houses along that railroad at the beginning of that then. HC: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And where old Sinclair place is there, Arco (ph) yard is there now, used to be an oil field supply store. HK: It did. It was also. HC: Yeah, it was also. Then along the railroad track there, there was pipe yards and supply stores, and I say there was eleven or twelve. HK: Well, the railroad then between, between Bristow and Slick and went on [indecipherable] to Nuyaka. Probably, I would imagine, would have hurt the trucking business that your dad was in. HC: Well… HK: The teaming business…or was there enough for everybody to go around? HC: There was enough for everybody to go around then, because it was a slow operation and the railroad couldn’t haul that stuff out to the locations. They could haul it to a central railhead… HK: They still had to unload it, right? HC: They’d haul it to Slick and unload it and then they had to go out to here or there. HK: That’s right. HC: And I can remember going to up where this waterfront is that we got out there, you know where the well is on the big hillside over there? HK: Yeah. HC: My dad, we’d go from Bristow out there, and do whatever we had to do and spend the night down there at that spring there on the, I forget what spring, Turkey Creek Spring, I believe. HK: Yeah. Turkey Creek Spring. And as far as I know, it’s still running. HC: It’s still running. HK: Right. HC: And we’d spend our night there. It was…we stayed all night, we’d spend it right there at that spring because there’s water for the horses and then we’d, when we was just coming out to the eight mile corner, we’d pull to Jesse Allen’s place… HK: Right. HC: That creek is a good hole of water there. We’d make it there and try to make it there by lunch time. And we’d load up in town, make it to Jesse Allen’s place for lunch, then go on to the eight mile corner, and then be 8:00, 9:00 getting back home at night. HK: It was a long, long day. HC: Oh yeah, yeah. And the people that developed the oil business back in the early day around Bristow as the Rolands and the Freelands and Slick, Tom Slick…he developed Slick. That’s where it got it’s name. HK: Actually the Joneses never did, they, as far as I know, they never did actually operate as operators. HC: They operated as investors. HK: They operated as investors. HC: That’s right. And now the Joneses, they were, they made their money on after they come to Bristow from oil. But it was as investors, not as operators. HK: Right. That’s what I understood. HC: They, there was old B.B. Jones, he got into Drumright, made a fortune there. R.L., he made a fortune in the Drumright and then in the south Bristow deal, too. But there’s… HK: Well, there was lots of oil around Bristow. HC: Yeah, a lot of oil. HK: No question, it was a major factor in the growth of the town. HC: That’s right. And on this, getting back to early day Bristow, there used to be a bunch of tough characters around here. Boy, I mean they was rough, rough individuals. And there wasn’t hardly a week went by that somebody didn’t shoot somebody or kill somebody there. HK: Yeah. HC: And back when the banks had to run on the banks right after WWI, my uncle’s father, his name was Inman. He was a rough old character, and he wore an overcoat summer and winter. And in them overcoat pockets, he carried two old thumb-busters. He and his boys, my uncle and his brother and the old man hauled their cotton into Bristow and sold it. And at the gins they took the money up and he did, he did business with the Yakish Brothers’ bank (Robert W. Yakish of Bristow National Bank). I don’t remember what that bank is, where the American National Bank used to be. HK: Yeah, on the corner of 7th. Oh it was across the street from… HC: Across the street from American National Bank. HK: Right. HC: There used to be four banks there. HK: Right. HC: On each corner had a bank. Now the First National Bank was here and, I don’t remember what American National Bank, it wasn’t American National Bank back then. HK: Wasn’t American then, no. HC: And the Yakish Brothers, I don’t remember what their bank was, and the other bank, I don’t remember it. But the Groom’s owned the First National Bank. That was where McMillian’s office is. HK: And Blackstock. HC: Blackstock. HK: There in that building now. HC: That building. Then across the street was where American National Bank, and then Yakish was across there. HK: Across main street. HC: Old man hauled his cotton in. They all brought, I don’t know, three loads of cotton or how much. I don’t know. He sold his cotton and went up and deposited money in the bank. And the next morning, the bank didn’t open. So, about , why, somebody let the old man know the bank didn’t open, so about , he road to town on his horse. He and the Yakish boys was good friends. He goes around the side door, knocks on the door, old head Yakish comes to the door and opens it, and he walks in. The old man walks out with his money after he pulls the six-shooters on them and tells them he come in after his money. He walked out with his money. HK: He’s one that walked out with it. HC: He walked out with it. He got the money. HK: And what was his name? HC: Inman. HK: Inman. HC: Yeah. He killed two or three men on the main street there. He got in an argument or something. The old man was hard. HK: Self-defense, of course. HC: Yeah, yeah, self-defense. Never did serve a day, and they were about half Indians, and my aunt, my uncle’s wife, I guess she still living there at Bristow. I, we didn’t ever visit, because they didn’t hardly claim kinfolks to us. HK: Yeah. HC: But back in the early day there, it was rough. Old man killed my grandad and all that jazz. It was some pretty rough characters. HK: Well, most, most early settlements in this country were rough. HC: They had to be rough to exist. HK: That’s right. Well, when you get back on your feet, now, and when you can get around, why come down and we’ll go take a picture of the sidewalk. HC: Of that sidewalk. HK: Of the sidewalk. HC: Well, that walk will be, it will be, no it will be about 65-years-old. HK: I’d like to get a picture of it. HC: And it may have old A. Fielder’s name on it. I don’t know. HK: It may have. HC: I don’t know, he put it in. It was back there when he first come to Bristow. He put it in. HK: Okie doke, we’ll take a picture of it. HC: Okay, I’ll come down. HK: And we’ll put it with the record. HC: I’ll get with it and see what we can…and you think of anything else that… HK: You don’t happen to have any, any early day pictures of Bristow of the dirt streets or of the oil field or anything like that? HC: I don’t. My dad did. HK: In any of your dad’s stuff. HC: He had it, but I don’t know. I look and see. I don’t know, I may have some pictures of my dad’s team and some of his teams. I don’t know. I had it, at one time, I had a lot of it. HK: If we had some of the down town, you know, and the streets muddy and jammed and that stuff and what they looked like in the early day. It would just be interesting. HC: I’ll check and see, but I don’t believe I have Harlan, because when my first wife and I separate, she took all of my pictures. I had a lot of them, but that’s about it. Now I’ll to you somebody that might, old, not Ted Herman, but Taylor Herman. HK: Taylor Herman. HC: His dad was a judge (Judge William H. Herman), there, back in the early day and he was Chief of Police back there. And he was a pretty, he was a great big fat fella. He was a husky guy. And he might have some pictures of the town. HK: I’ll ask him. HC: John Price, he may have some. I don’t know. And some of the old buildings down at Bristow, down where the original Church of God is now, it’s on third street. HK: Right. HC: And whatever street that is, Uncle Billy Freshour’s old house was a block north there, and it’s on the north side of fourth street there. But it’s about a two-story house. It’s an old house. HK: Old house. HC: He lived there, Uncle Billy did. He was one of the roughest United States Marshals that they had in the country. Oh, he would shoot you and… HK: Ask questions later. HC: Ask questions later. HK: Well, I guess there had to be a few of those around to tame that place down. HC: Yeah, you better know it, because it was rough. All during that oil boom, the “dopies” you talk about dope now, there was dope back then. HK: Yeah, I’m sure there was. HC: And gamblers and the prostitutes coming in. And that… HK: And always the whiskey. HC: Oh yeah, plenty of that. Plenty of whiskey there. HK: Well, unless you can think of something else, I’ve about run out of questions. HC: Well, if you run out of questions, well, let’s closer her off and we’ll think of some more later. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0052B_Hyatt_Chapman.xml OHP-0052B_Hyatt_Chapman.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hyatt Chapman - Part 2 Description An account of the resource Hyatt continues this 1979 interview discussing plugging wells, Bristow’s first gas well, early merchants, brick streets, oil supply companies and the railroad, and the many tough Bristow characters. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0052B Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-08-02 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/411367f5f3b7767e49262235dff6485d.jpg 923e640f8860c105361aa8238e760a76 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pinehill Histories Subject The topic of the resource History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow Description An account of the resource Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ira Lester Jones Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Pinehill School OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0005-01 Ira and Bonnie Jones OHP-0005-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community and School Pinehill School Ira Lester Jones Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|24(9)|46(5)|88(2)|106(10)|137(8)|158(4)|193(2)|225(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0005-01 Jones, Lester &amp ; Bonnie.mp3 Other audio 0 Life in Pinehill BM: What year, Lester, wait a minute, let me back up a minute. This is a tape of Lester Jones and his wife in their home living room, 10/18/76, time 7:30. Lester, what, what year was it that you was in the Pinehill community? LJ: Nineteen-and-twenty-five. BM: Did you ever go to school here? LJ: No. Life in Pinehill and the cattle operation cattle ; Indian land ; Lester Jones ; Molton Bruce ; Pinehill cattle ; Pinehill 120 Blackberry Thicket MM: What about the blackberry thicket? BM: What about that blackberry thicket that you— LJ: That blackberry— BM: --started telling me about a while ago. Memories of picking blackberries blackberry blackberry 184 People of Pinehill LJ: Yeah. I remember Walt Bolin (ph). BM: Up in the north. LJ: He lived on the north side of Polecat going straight north to Pinehill school. And his mule kicked him! And he had a scar of this mule’s foot on his-a lot of, some people called him “Mule Tracks.” BM: Do you remember a Frank Bruce? The people of Pinehill and Indian allotments Allotment of land ; Arthur Roberts ; Bob Lucas ; cemetery ; Curtis Scott ; Elsa Self ; Frank Bruce ; Indians ; oats ; Pinehill School ; Polecat ; slaves ; Smith Bruce ; steam thrasher ; Sunrise ; two room school ; wagon ; Walt Bolin ; wheat Allotment of land ; Pinehill 371 Moving to Pinehill and more Pinehill classmates BJ: Now didn’t you go to school at Pinehill? LJ: No, no. BJ: I thought you went to school there! Just lived there? Remembering more people in the Pinehill Community Ed Abraham ; Florence Stanley ; Pickett Prairie ; Pinehill ; Posey Place ; Theodore Abraham ; Velma Carson Classmates ; Pinehill School In this 1976 interview, Ira Lester Jones (1908-1988) and wife Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones (1908-1983) discuss their early life in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow in Creek County, Oklahoma, including picking blackberries, thrashing wheat and oats with a steam-powered thrasher, and the names of some of their classmates and neighbors in the community. BM: What year, Lester, wait a minute, let me back up a minute. This is a tape of Lester Jones and his wife in their home living room, 10/18/76, time 7:30. Lester, what, what year was it that you was in the Pinehill community? LJ: Nineteen-and-twenty-five. BM: Did you ever go to school here? LJ: No. BM: What was some of the things that you remember happening there in the Pinehill community? LJ: Well, one of the main things was Mote Bruce&#039 ; s cattle operation. BM: What do you mean by Mote Bruce&#039 ; s cattle operation? LJ: The way, now on these places that he had this Indian land range and he always reserved the stock field. And he grazed these, these cattle and these, in those creek bottoms in the wintertime, that&#039 ; s where he wanted them. BM: Anything else that you remember? LJ: And remember real well a one-legged colored man that-- BM: What was his name? LJ: All I remember is &quot ; Big Boy.&quot ; He had both of his legs--I&#039 ; m sorry, he--both legs were off. And, one below his knee and one above his knee. And he picked cottons walking on his knees, and he pick four-fifty, four hundred fifty pounds of cotton a day out of the, out of the creek bottoms. BM: You said something while ago that you knew my mother and you knew my dad. What year did you get acquainted with them? LJ: Well I got acquainted with them in 1924. BM: Anything in particular that you remember happened, that was before my time. Anything that you remember happened that--with them in particular? LJ: Well, yeah. I thought about what a nice neighbor they, that family was a lot of times. Real, real nice people. MM: What about the blackberry thicket? BM: What about that blackberry thicket that you-- LJ: That blackberry-- BM: --started telling me about a while ago. LJ: --more rabbits in it, more blackberries, and a few snakes, than any patch of blackberries I ever seen in my life. It was one acre of solid wild blackberries. Me and Casey went over and we picked a tubful of blackberries in about three hours. Number--number one washtub. BM: You remember that spring that was here by that old blackberry patch? LJ: No. No, I don&#039 ; t remember a spring. BM: It was right south of the blackberry thicket. LJ: Oh is that right? BM: Uh, no, it wasn&#039 ; t that blackberry thicket, it was right around it. It was right around that spring. LJ: Yeah? Well we just went in the west side over there next to Casey&#039 ; s place and we just, we just went out in there, in there, and we just picked right in one little spot there. Oh, it was place bigger than this house, you see. But I never, I ain&#039 ; t never seen such-- MM: Just picked until you got tired? LJ: Ma&#039 ; am? MM: Just picked until you got tired? LJ: Just picked &#039 ; til we got a tubful and went to the house. BM: Now this old spring that I was speaking about a while ago, it&#039 ; s still there as of today. LJ: Yeah? MM: The blackberry patch is not there. BM: The blackberry patch is gone. LJ: Yeah. I remember Walt Bolin (ph). BM: Up in the north. LJ: He lived on the north side of Polecat going straight north to Pinehill school. And his mule kicked him! And he had a scar of this mule&#039 ; s foot on his-a lot of, some people called him &quot ; Mule Tracks.&quot ; BM: Do you remember a Frank Bruce? LJ: Real well. Used to work for Frank, let&#039 ; s see--I was about, about thirteen or fourteen, just getting big enough to go to the thrashin&#039 ; and help &#039 ; em thrash. We hauled a bundle wagon. Hauled wheat and oats in to his place down in the pasture. The Roberts boys here at Bristow, colored--these two colored men? They, they were, they had that was their thrashing machine. Steam thrasher. BM: You mentioned Roberts a while ago. Did you by any chance know that they were some of the freedmen that were in this community? LJ: No, but I figured maybe they was. I figured maybe they was. MM: But you did know that the freedmen were out here to the allotments along this-- LJ: Oh yes, they, they were slaves of the Indians, right. BM: This Arthur Roberts, Arthur Roberts still lives on his allotment that he was allotted whenever they--his dad came to this part of the country and had taken out his allotment. Arthur Roberts still lives on his land of allotment. LJ: Yeah. BM: His sister, Irene, lives on hers. LJ: Yeah. MM: And Elsa Still still lives on-- BM: Elsa Self still lives on his original-- LJ: We used to--or I went to school at Sunrise when Elsa&#039 ; s wife was teaching. But she was--they had a two-room school and Claudie was in--he taught the other grades. I was in the, in the, Self&#039 ; s-- BM: Well, Elsa taught there, taught there too. LJ: Yeah. BM: He&#039 ; s got a miniature school building of the first Pinehill--uh, Sunrise school-- LJ: Yeah, we&#039 ; ve seen it. We&#039 ; ve seen it. BM: --with all the pictures and everything in it. LJ: He had it over to the cemetery one day, at Sunrise. BM: Who was some of the other people that you remember in there, Lester? LJ: I remember the-- BM: I mean at that time, now. At that time. LJ: Curtis Scott (ph). He lived a mile and a half south of Pinehill school. And &#039 ; course I knew all the, all the Bruce family. Not, not all of them. Smith Bruce, he lived in there. And Bob Lucas, knew them well, goes to school there at Pinehill. MM: Mrs. Lucas comes to the reunion every year and won&#039 ; t eat bite, she&#039 ; s afraid she&#039 ; ll miss some gossip. LJ: Oh, well that&#039 ; s--(laughs) MM: [Inaudible] is something else. LJ: Yeah, that&#039 ; s where I first--first knew him was at-- BJ: Now didn&#039 ; t you go to school at Pinehill? LJ: No, no. BJ: I thought you went to school there! Just lived there? LJ: No, we--I went to school with Casey, the fall of &#039 ; 25, and of course I was out in there for the whole two years Casey was there, you see. But we moved from right here on the Posey place, we moved to Pickett Prairie. BM: When you left the Posey place, then you moved to Pickett Prairie. LJ: Mmm-hmm. BJ: Now we could talk about Pinehill [inaudible]. LJ: Yeah. BJ: They even went to school there. LJ: There was a Florence Stanley, the name is Florence, and Jake--he lived [inaudible] (tape garbled). BM: [Indecipherable.] MM: Ellen and-- BM: Ellen was [inaudible] (tape garbled). LJ: And-- BM: Ellen was the oldest, then Myrtle. MM: Myrtle. LJ: Yeah. That&#039 ; s--was a Carson girl that married Claude Bruce. BM: That was Velma Carson. LJ: Velma, yeah. MM: We interviewed Claude yesterday. LJ: Yeah? Claude&#039 ; d be a lot of help on that thing. BM: No, he hadn&#039 ; t [indecipherable] brother was more help than--[inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: --baby brother was more help. MM: They are writing a history but I&#039 ; ve heard [inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: Claude did real well on his [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: Yeah. BM: When you were in there [inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: Did you ever help out [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: And I tell you something [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: Theodore Abraham, he had a big cattle--[inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: --bought the cattle, and Ed Abraham was his father. BM: Right. LJ: And they were a big operator, had a big store and they dealt with the farmers a lot. That was Theodore, they used to be a [indecipherable] here. BM: Can you think of anything else you might want to ask him? end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 4000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ira and Bonnie Jones Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, Ira Lester Jones (1908-1988) and wife Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones (1908-1983) discuss their early life in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow in Creek County, Oklahoma, including picking blackberries, thrashing wheat and oats with a steam-powered thrasher, and the names of some of their classmates and neighbors in the community. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0005-01 Subject The topic of the resource Pinehill Community and School Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1976-10-18 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/a66f6de2e1c56566280d231d0d732009.png 54307ef8c2aa07f16edaa91fb6106bae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Georgia Smith Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed J C Hutson OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-19,_Hutson,_J_C.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 July 19, 2021 OHP-2021-19 J C Hutson OHP-2021-19 0:00-40:33 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. J C Hutson Georgia Smith MP3 1:|55(5)|83(9)|110(7)|140(5)|161(13)|186(1)|225(7)|248(2)|278(8)|319(3)|361(8)|389(5)|426(8)|455(2)|493(6)|519(10)|536(10)|583(3)|616(10)|638(2)|665(2)|698(12)|717(8)|731(11)|742(17)|762(5)|796(9)|822(13)|848(4)|869(2)|885(9)|910(3)|938(5)|970(3)|989(3)|1006(11)|1031(1)|1047(8)|1076(4)|1116(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/J C Hutson.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is July 19, 2021 and I am sitting here at the Rainbow Assisted Living Center with J C Hutson who’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow Area. Now, since J C can’t see, I am going to be filling out his paperwork as I answer—ask some of these questions so there may be a little bit of a pause with the questions. Okay, once again J C what was your full name at birth? JH: Johnny Cleo Hutson (ph) GS: And where were you born? JH: I was born in three miles north of Tuskegee, Oklahoma GS: And what was your father’s name? JH: Wesley Monroe Hutson GS: And your mother’s name? JH: Lily—her married name? GS: Her maiden name Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow Oklahoma ; Bristow Tire Service ; Candace Lou Hutson ; Central Gas and Oil Company ; Georgia Smith ; J C Hutson ; Jacqueline June Hutson ; Johnny Clea Hutson ; Lily A Hutson ; Rainbow Assisted Living Center ; Tuskegee, Oklahoma ; Wesley Monroe Hutson https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/160089441/wesley-monroe-hutson Wesley Monroe Hutson https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47291617/lillie-a-falconer Lillie A Falconer https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/130518979/jacqueline-june-hutson Jacqueline June Hutson 245 Childhood GS: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your life as a child growing up JH: Oh gosh, well we were living in the country and of course we didn’t have running water, we didn’t have electricity, we did have natural gas, we had gas lights and gas stove for heating and I went to school at Mountain Home, which was just across the street, across the road actually from us. GS: So it was five miles north of Bristow? JH: Yes GS: Okay, Mountain Home school district JH: There were several little—every little school district had a couple of schools GS: Okay Barrel Grocery ; Bishops ; Mountain Home ; Mountain Home School Disctrict ; Safeway 584 Grandparents and Transportation GS: Do you remember your grandparents? JH: Yes, my grandparents? GS: Yes JH: Yes, they were, their name was Carter, W. H. Carter, he was a Freewill Baptist preacher GS: Oh, how wonderful! I did not know that JH: What? GS: Was that your dads—no that would’ve been your moms JH: My mothers, my mothers GS: Okay, any other older people that you remember besides your grandparents Carters? JH: You mean in the family? GS: Uh-huh JH: No, not really model-a Ford ; W. H. Carter 695 High School GS: Okay, what about high school? Were you active in any activities when you were in high school? JH: Yes, I played basketball and I was in the junior play GS: Oh, do you remember the play? JH: Something in King Arthurs Court GS: Oh how fun JH: You know about that? GS: Yes, yes JH: Okay, and Ms. Borris (ph) was the director of it GS: Oh okay, and I guess she was the speech or drama teacher? JH: Yes Ms. Borris 770 Church GS: When you were growing up at home, did you attend church with your family? JH: Yes GS: Where was that? JH: Cleveland First Freewill Baptist Church, my granddad was the preacher. Not the preacher but then, but he was a preacher in the denomination [Indecipherable] GS: Had he retired or was he in a different church? Had he retired or was he in a different church? JH: He was in a different church GS: Okay. You—do you remember any of the songs that they sang? JH: Oh my gosh, I do but I’m [Indecipherable] GS: That’s okay, that’s okay. Did they do special things for Christmas or holidays? Cleveland, Oklahoma ; First Freewill Baptist Church 899 Medical Care GS: Okay we’re gonna switch gears and go with what was medical care like when you were a child? Did you ever have to go to the doctor? JH: Not very often, no. Unless you had a bad case of poison ivy or something like this that’s, you know, the only way that you ever went to the doctor. GS: Do you remember your family doctor? JH: Doctor Sisler (ph) GS: Dr. Sisler from Sisler Clinic. Did your mother give birth at home to all of you? JH: Yes GS: And did Doctor Sisler or one of the doctors—no, one of the—a doctor came out JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay Doctor Sisler ; Sisler Clinic 952 Recollections of Bristow GS: What are your recollections of Bristow when you were young? Your earliest recollections of Bristow? JH: Oh gosh, it was all—we had so many nice stores, you could buy about anything you wanted to buy in Bristow and usually on Sunday evening, everybody had their bath and we went to town and we had lots of the oil field people GS: Yes JH: I mean a lot of them GS: Yes Anthonys ; J C Pennys ; Safeway ; Warehouse Market 1131 Military GS: Did you serve in the military in WWII? JH: Yes GS: What branch? JH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force. What were your duties there? JH: I was a tail gunner on a B-17 flying fortress GS: Oh my goodness, did you have some pretty scary moments— JH: Yes GS: --During that time? B-17 Flying Fortress 1312 Trips GS: Oh that’s wonderful, that’s good. And where did you meet Jackie? JH: Well of course I’ve known her all—I met her in high school GS: Okay, so you met in high school and did you date in high school? JH: No GS: No, waited until after you got out? JH: What? GS: What brought you together? JH: I don’t know, we—she went to the Baptist church and I did too and of course we were in the same classes in school in high school and, I don’t know we just had—we were in the same circles, we had the same friends and it’s, you know, it just grew better and better all the time J. D. Dobson ; New York Harbor ; San Francisco 1624 Bristow Tire GS: Well dates are hard for everyone to remember, dates always have been. Tell me a little bit about your Bristow Tire business. JH: I was selling bread for Bottom Bread company at that time for quite a while, and my father-in-law was getting old, he owned Bristow Tire GS: Oh, your father-in-law owned it! JH: Yes GS: And his last name was Carter, right? JH: No his last name was Moore GS: No Moore, Moore. What was his first name? JH: P. M. we called him Bristow Tire ; Goodyear Tires ; OBU ; P. M. Moore ; Rotary Club ; Western Heritage Days 2000 Main Street GS: Yes, any other memories of main street? JH: No, just the memories of back in the 30’s and 40’s when all the oil fields here GS: Did you ever see Bob Wills when he came through town? JH: Oh yeah, uh-huh GS: At the J&amp ; J Café? JH: No, it was in—Bob Wills was at Hamburger King GS: I meant Hamburger King, I said J&amp ; J but I knew it was Hamburger King JH: Well he—he was a Hamburger King man Bob Wills ; Hamburger King ; J&amp ; J Cafe 2044 Communication GS: How did you get information about the war when you were in the 40’s? JH: How did I get information? GS: Uh-huh, like over the radio, television? JH: [Indecipherable] well all we got was—on the radio, of course until we went into the army, and we got very little even when we were in the army just on what we were doing and maybe what we were gonna do. GS: Yes, they wouldn’t give you any more information, would they? JH: No, no. Not lots of information 2088 Closing Thoughts GS: What would you consider to be the most important change that has happened in your lifetime? JH: A what? GS: An invention or maybe an invention—an important invention? JH: No I can’t remember one, there were so many little—you know, when you were raised, when you’re a little country boy, everything is new and kind of nice kind of to you GS: True JH: So everything was very interesting then. GS: Yes, it was JH: Lots of changes taking place GS: There were, how is the world different today than it was back then? JH: One thing I think we were much friendlier back then, and of course the—we get so much information now so easily and they didn’t back then Bristow Record ; Tulsa World In this 2021 interview, J C Hutson talks about growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his time in the military and owning the Bristow Tire Shop. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: J C Hutson Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-19 at 00:00 to 40:33 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.&#039 ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones &amp ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The date is July 19, 2021 and I am sitting here at the Rainbow Assisted Living Center with J C Hutson who&#039 ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow Area. Now, since J C can&#039 ; t see, I am going to be filling out his paperwork as I answer--ask some of these questions so there may be a little bit of a pause with the questions. Okay, once again J C what was your full name at birth? JH: Johnny Cleo Hutson (ph) GS: And where were you born? JH: I was born in three miles north of Tuskegee, Oklahoma GS: And what was your father&#039 ; s name? JH: Wesley Monroe HutsonGS: And your mother&#039 ; s name? JH: Lily--her married name? GS: Her maiden name JH: Lily A Hutson (ph) GS: What was her maiden name? JH: Carter GS: And what was your spouse&#039 ; s name? JH: Jacqueline June Hutson, Moore was her maiden name GS: Do you remember how to spell Jacqueline? JH: J. A. C. Q. U. E. L. I. N. E. GS: Moore? JH: Yes GS: Okay. Do you remember when you got married? JH: No I really don&#039 ; t GS: That&#039 ; s okay, I&#039 ; ve noticed most men don&#039 ; t. Okay, do you remember where you got married? JH: Yes, out in Bristow GS: Okay JH: At her mother and dads home. GS: Did you have any children JH: Yes, we have one child GS: And what is her name? JH: Candace Lou Hutson (ph) GS: And what education level did you achieve? JH: One year of college GS: And what about occupations? What have you done in your life work wise? JH: The most lucrative, the best employment I ever did was with the tire shop, Bristow Tire Service. GS: And you were the owner of that, weren&#039 ; t you? JH: Yes, right. GS: What years did you do that J C? JH: Oh my gosh, I can&#039 ; t remember but it was probably about 20 to 25 years GS: You were there a long time, my parents went to you then I did when I got grown, so you were there a long time. You were born by Tuskegee, when did your parents move to Bristow? Or when did you move to Bristow? JH: Well we didn&#039 ; t move to Bristow, we moved five miles north east of Bristow. GS: Okay JH: And my dad was working for Central Oil and Gas Company GS: Ah that&#039 ; s wonderful, my father worked for them also JH: I think [Indecipherable] GS: Yeah, yeah. And do you remember about what year you moved north of Bristow? Were you pretty small? JH: Oh yes, I was small child. GS: Okay, and your mother, was she a stay at home mom? JH: Yes GS: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your life as a child growing up JH: Oh gosh, well we were living in the country and of course we didn&#039 ; t have running water, we didn&#039 ; t have electricity, we did have natural gas, we had gas lights and gas stove for heating and I went to school at Mountain Home, which was just across the street, across the road actually from us. GS: So it was five miles north of Bristow? JH: Yes GS: Okay, Mountain Home school district JH: There were several little--every little school district had a couple of schools GS: Okay JH: And that&#039 ; s where I went to school until I was in the junior high in Bristow, then my dad and mother, and of course we had--also some people who lived in the area that were working for Central. There was three houses in the area we lived and we--our families would take turns hauling us to school in Bristow. GS: All right, you did some carpooling back then JH: Uh-huh GS: So you went--you started going to Bristow in Junior High, right? JH: Yes GS: In--growing up-- JH: Probably not until--not until I was in high school GS: Oh, in high school, okay. At home, did you have chores that you had to do? JH: At home? Yes. Yeah we always had chickens and cows and of course we had to--we&#039 ; d clean up, keep the yard clean GS: Sure JH: And there was just lots of new projects, you know, when you live in the country [Indecipherable]. Of course she always had a big garden, which I hated to work in it but I loved to-- GS: Eat the fresh veggies? JH: Yes, we lived right across the street, it&#039 ; s not the street, the road from mountain road school GS: Okay, were you the only child? JH: Oh no GS: How many children did-- JH: Four and four GS: Four and-- JH: Eight children GS: Oh my goodness JH: Four boys and four girls GS: Are any of them living today? JH: No GS: Aw, did you have to share your beds with your siblings? JH: Yes, always yes. GS: What kind of toys did you have as a child? JH: What? GS: What games or toys did you have as a child? JH: Oh my gosh, we played with rubber guns and [Indecipherable] flips and we dug caves and we built tree houses and of course we played cowboy and Indian and we had a beautiful big croquet court GS: Yes JH: We seemed to always have a lot of fun GS: I&#039 ; m sure you did, sounds like my husband&#039 ; s upbringing. JH: Yeah GS: Now your mom, it sounds like your house was pretty self-sufficient. You grew your vegetables, you grew your own meat, did she come into town to shop at any of the local grocery stores? JH: I&#039 ; m not sure, usually over the weekend on Saturday GS: Okay okay, and what--do you remember what markets were open then? JH: [Indecipherable] GS: What ones she traded with? JH: There was a store named Barrel, Barrel Grocery (ph), and I think Bishops might&#039 ; ve sold stuff, them too. GS: Okay JH: And of course Safeway was here and there were several--we had a beautiful town, we had several grocery stores. GS: We did have a nice town back then. Since you grew some vegetables and meat, did your mom can the vegetables? JH: She always, all the vegetables in the garden, she usually canned several of them GS: Did you get in on helping with that? JH: Oh yeah, we always had to get in on all the peeling and corn and all the stuff that you knew you had to do when you&#039 ; re canning GS: Did she make any jelly? JH: Oh yes, yes. GS: Did she grow the-- JH: We didn&#039 ; t grow any grapes or any kind of fruit, we always had to buy that GS: Okay, what about blackberries? Did you go out and pick the wild blackberries? JH: Yes, we did GS: Did your family employ any household help? With all those kids probably not. JH: No GS: What kind of clothes did you wear as a child? JH: What kind of clothes? GS: Uh-huh JH: I can give you a picture of it right here GS: Oh alright! I&#039 ; m going to pause for just a minute JH: That&#039 ; s striped GS: Yes JH: Stripe and overalls GS: I love it, I love it. Before I leave, can I take a screenshot of that with my phone? JH: Sure, yes uh-huh GS: Oh thank you so much J C, we&#039 ; ll lay it right here and don&#039 ; t let me forget that. Do you remember your grandparents? JH: Yes, my grandparents? GS: Yes JH: Yes, they were, their name was Carter, W. H. Carter, he was a Freewill Baptist preacher GS: Oh, how wonderful! I did not know that JH: What? GS: Was that your dads--no that would&#039 ; ve been your moms JH: My mothers, my mothers GS: Okay, any other older people that you remember besides your grandparents Carters? JH: You mean in the family? GS: Uh-huh JH: No, not really GS: Okay, did you ever see your Hutson grandparents? Did you ever see your Hutson grandparents? JH: Yes, my--not my grandmother, she passed away before I came along. But yeah he came to visit us, his name was Jim GS: Okay JH: And he lived out in Lawton, Oklahoma, he came once a year to visit us GS: That&#039 ; s a ways, especially back then JH: Yes GS: Travel took a lot longer, didn&#039 ; t it? JH: Yeah GS: How did they travel to come and see you? JH: Well usually he--he usually took the bus GS: Okay, and we had bus service here then, didn&#039 ; t we? JH: Yes. Uh-huh GS: Grey Hound Bus service JH: Uh-huh GS: Do you remember going to pick him up from the bus station? JH: Yes, I probably was out playing somewhere and someone else would drive in and pick him up GS: Sure, yeah. JH: In a Model-A Ford GS: Oh how wonderful, how--a model-a Ford. I didn&#039 ; t ask you about your first teacher, do you remember your first teacher? It&#039 ; s okay if you don&#039 ; t JH: No, I--my mom, I was thinking maybe it was [Indecipherable] was her name, well I&#039 ; m not sure GS: Okay, what about high school? Were you active in any activities when you were in high school? JH: Yes, I played basketball and I was in the junior play GS: Oh, do you remember the play? JH: Something in King Arthurs Court GS: Oh how fun JH: You know about that? GS: Yes, yes JH: Okay, and Ms. Borris (ph) was the director of it GS: Oh okay, and I guess she was the speech or drama teacher? JH: Yes GS: Any--were you in any sports? JH: Yeah basketball GS: Basketball. Did they have women&#039 ; s basketball also back then in Bristow? JH: No I don&#039 ; t think so ; I don&#039 ; t think so. GS: Don&#039 ; t think so. Did you pack your food? Did you have a sack lunch that you took to school every day? A sack lunch? JH: No, we usually had just the cafeteria GS: Okay, was the food-- JH: Or downtown bought a meal GS: How was the food in the cafeteria? JH: Pretty good GS: Pretty good food, of course back then they made it all by hand, didn&#039 ; t they? JH: Yes GS: When you were growing up at home, did you attend church with your family? JH: Yes GS: Where was that? JH: Cleveland First Freewill Baptist Church, my granddad was the preacher. Not the preacher but then, but he was a preacher in the denomination [Indecipherable] GS: Had he retired or was he in a different church? Had he retired or was he in a different church? JH: He was in a different church GS: Okay. You--do you remember any of the songs that they sang? JH: Oh my gosh, I do but I&#039 ; m [Indecipherable] GS: That&#039 ; s okay, that&#039 ; s okay. Did they do special things for Christmas or holidays? JH: Yes, usually yes GS: What did they do? JH: You mean the church? GS: Uh-huh JH: They usually had a little skit, you know, the manger and all this stuff and then we sang Christmas songs. GS: Did-- JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Did the children do that or adults? JH: Both GS: Both? JH: MhmGS: Very good. Did you or your mother or your dad sing in the choir? JH: No, but I did GS: Okay JH: And two of my sisters did and a brother did. GS: Did you keep singing as you grew older, did you keep singing? JH: Did I teach it? GS: Did you keep on singing? JH: Yes, I really did GS: Well good, good. We need more singers. JH: I was in the choir at First Baptist church GS: Okay, for a long time? JH: Yes, it&#039 ; s been a long time. GS: When did you start going to First Baptist? JH: I guess probably when I married, started going with Jaqueline. GS: Is that where she went? JH: Yes GS: Okay we&#039 ; re gonna switch gears and go with what was medical care like when you were a child? Did you ever have to go to the doctor? JH: Not very often, no. Unless you had a bad case of poison ivy or something like this that&#039 ; s, you know, the only way that you ever went to the doctor. GS: Do you remember your family doctor? JH: Doctor Sisler (ph) GS: Dr. Sisler from Sisler Clinic. Did your mother give birth at home to all of you? JH: Yes GS: And did Doctor Sisler or one of the doctors--no, one of the--a doctor came out JH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay JH: And that&#039 ; s something all four--all eight of us GS: All eight delivered at home, that&#039 ; s marvelous. She didn&#039 ; t have any still births that you know of or miscarriages? What are your recollections of Bristow when you were young? Your earliest recollections of Bristow? JH: Oh gosh, it was all--we had so many nice stores, you could buy about anything you wanted to buy in Bristow and usually on Sunday evening, everybody had their bath and we went to town and we had lots of the oil field people GS: Yes JH: I mean a lot of them GS: Yes JH: And they would kind of gang up on the street and talk and you just tell one lie, but they--everybody was so friendly and they were--we were happy to see each other and it was just a gathering place of, oh I don&#039 ; t know what the word I want to use, but it was happy occasions that everybody--the streets would be full of people and full of cars and all the stores will be open and doing business and it was just a wonderful time GS: It sounds like it, sounds like something we need now JH: And you looked forward to meeting some new friends GS: Sure, it was a big social event wasn&#039 ; t it? JH: Yes, it sure was GS: Did they ever have entertainment during these times? JH: You mean a street entertainer or something? GS: MhmJH: No, not that I remember GS: Just everybody just visited and told stories JH: Yes, uh-huh GS: Okay, that sounds really nice. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a child? JH: You know [Indecipherable] GS: Oh, that&#039 ; s okay. And your first job, what was your first good paying job? JH: I guess working at a grocery store GS: Okay. Do you remember the name of that store? JH: I think it was the Warehouse Market GS: Oh okay JH: We had a Warehouse Market here GS: How old were you? JH: Oh I was probably 18, 17 or 18 GS: Still in high school? JH: What? GS: Were you still in high school JH: Yes, uh-huh. And also I worked JC Penny (ph) GS: Okay, we had one of those back then too JH: Yeah we had Anthonys, we had Pennys, we had Safeway, we&#039 ; s just--all the good stores we had here. GS: Now I know you were pretty young during the depression, what are your memories of the depression? JH: I really don&#039 ; t have any GS: Don&#039 ; t have any, it didn&#039 ; t affect your family much did it? JH: No, not at all. GS: With being self-sufficient on the farm JH: All we did, people worried all the time you know, about their family and about their job GS: Sure JH: Excuse me, what did you ask? GS: No that&#039 ; s fine, yeah that&#039 ; s good. Did you serve in the military in WWII? JH: Yes GS: What branch? JH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force. What were your duties there? JH: I was a tail gunner on a B-17 flying fortress GS: Oh my goodness, did you have some pretty scary moments-- JH: Yes GS: --During that time? JH: We did have ; I only flew six missions. We went to, we would always get up real early, probably about 3 o&#039 ; clock in the morning and we would go to the sergeant cafeteria but they called it the mess hall GS: Yes JH: And before I even got into the mess hall, I started having pains in my stomach. And anyway, as I sat there before everything started, I started vomiting GS: Oh myJH: And I went to the, what do you call it? Doctor, same as doctors. You remember what they called the doctors in the-- GS: In the service? I don&#039 ; t JH: Infirmary probably GS: Oh yes JH: Anyway they took me down there and said that I had appendicitis GS: Oh myJH: But I didn&#039 ; t--wasn&#039 ; t operated on at that time. Anyway, they got another young man from the area and he flew in my place and that plane was shot down that day GS: Oh my, J C JH: Yeah, the only people who got out was the pilot and co-pilot and the side gunner and I have been--felt kind of guilt, they called in for a replacement for me, but I have felt guilty ever since then that I didn&#039 ; t--I wasn&#039 ; t doing really what I needed to do, but I couldn&#039 ; t help it. I felt like-- GS: Like it should&#039 ; ve been you up there JH: Yes GS: Did your replacement, did he pass away? JH: What? GS: Did your replacement live? JH: He got killed GS: He got killed JH: MhmGS: Yeah but-- JH: Everybody was killed except the pilot, co-pilot, and the side gunner GS: Well, God knew that you were needed for-- JH: They were shot down, what? GS: God knew you were needed for something later on JH: Well evidently I don&#039 ; t know what it would be GS: Isn&#039 ; t it odd how appendicitis could save you JH: Yes GS: But it did JH: I&#039 ; m sure it was for some reason GS: I&#039 ; m sure it was. Did you see--after, I&#039 ; m sorry I apologize. After that, did you see any active combat up there? JH: No, nothing, the war was over in just about a week or two GS: Oh that&#039 ; s wonderful, that&#039 ; s good. And where did you meet Jackie? JH: Well of course I&#039 ; ve known her all--I met her in high school GS: Okay, so you met in high school and did you date in high school? JH: No GS: No, waited until after you got out? JH: What? GS: What brought you together? JH: I don&#039 ; t know, we--she went to the Baptist church and I did too and of course we were in the same classes in school in high school and, I don&#039 ; t know we just had--we were in the same circles, we had the same friends and it&#039 ; s, you know, it just grew better and better all the time GS: Sure, sure. Tell me about traveling back then. Travel, after you were a young man did you have a vehicle or did you take buses, trains? JH: No we took short trips in [Indecipherable] or a car, but we had several nice trips. We went to--we had, go on two or three cruises, we went to San Francisco and all the California areas. Drove down [Indecipherable] and drove down highway [Indecipherable] to the Hurst, went through the Hurst mansion. And the funny thing happened, we went into the, what&#039 ; s the capital of California? GS: Is it Sacramento? JH: Sacramento, and we was just, it was almost time to eat so we went into a place not too far from the capital and as you were sitting there eating, and we were looking out the window and I said &quot ; Jackie, there is J.D. Dobson&quot ; , he graduated with us in high school GS: Oh my word, what a coincidence JH: And Jackie said &quot ; No that&#039 ; s not J&quot ; I said &quot ; Yeah hunny, it&#039 ; s J.D.&quot ; so I went to the front of the door that they were entering and walked in behind him and said &quot ; J.D.&quot ; , he turned around and quickly recognized me. And Jackie, he was real sweet on Jackie in high school GS: Oh myJH: But we had a very interesting talk and then we also, we took two or three cruises and we were on, we were in New York Harbor, [Indecipherable] ready to sail after midnight on 9/11 GS: Oh my word JH: So we went ahead and took our little cruise and I guess it was about three days later, it was about time to come home, and we couldn&#039 ; t get a plane, just about everything was grounded GS: Yes JH: But we did finally get a plane into [Indecipherable] Georgia and then flew back home from there GS: Wow JH: But that was a wonderful trip, but we had a lot of, like--we took two or three cruises and we went up to--after that, we went to, back to New York and then we got a car and drove way up into Maine and then back down then we, they called us [Indecipherable] and they called the little people that came in, they called them leaf peepers. You know, the pretty leaves? GS: Yes JH: And we drove from Maine all the way back down to [Indecipherable]. Anyway, as we were driving along one evening about supper time, there was a big sign on the church that said &quot ; leaf peepers welcome, dinner tonight at so-and-so&quot ; GS: Wow JH: I said &quot ; Jackie, you wanna try that&quot ; she said &quot ; sure&quot ; so we went and had dinner with them GS: Well how nice is that JH: And they were very nice, we really enjoyed it. But we had a lot of nice trips like that, and of course we went to the cruise, went to England, Ireland, Scotland, so we had a really nice life, Jackie and I did. GS: That&#039 ; s wonderful JH: Even though we were kind of poor GS: I don&#039 ; t think you were kind of poor JH: But anyway, we both were working and we had fun GS: When did you lose Jackie? When did Jackie pass away? JH: 8 years ago, I believe it is GS: 8 years ago JH: Yes, I can&#039 ; t remember the date GS: I&#039 ; m sorry JH: [Indecipherable] I&#039 ; m getting to where I can&#039 ; t remember anything GS: Well dates are hard for everyone to remember, dates always have been. Tell me a little bit about your Bristow Tire business. JH: I was selling bread for Bottom Bread company at that time for quite a while, and my father-in-law was getting old, he owned Bristow Tire GS: Oh, your father-in-law owned it! JH: Yes GS: And his last name was Carter, right? JH: No his last name was Moore GS: No Moore, Moore. What was his first name? JH: P. M. we called him GS: P. M. Moore owned Bristow tire before you did JH: Yeah GS: Okay JH: And he was getting old and wasn&#039 ; t able to just do things, you know, like he should so he and his wife came to me and asked me if I&#039 ; d like to, you know, be in the tire business and I said sure. So I went to work for him, and worked for quite some time GS: Sure JH: And then he decided to sell it to me, so he did, I don&#039 ; t know what year it was but I was down there for thirty years GS: Oh my goodness JH: But anyway, I took over the tire business GS: Was it the 50&#039 ; s? Was it in the 50&#039 ; s? Was it in the 1950&#039 ; s do you think? JH: It could be, yes GS: Okay JH: I don&#039 ; t really remember. But anyway the Lord has been good to me, has blessed us with a real nice business, I couldn&#039 ; t have asked for anything any better, and of course I got to work right here at home, and my customers were, you know, I don&#039 ; t know the word I want to use but they were always happy that they could do business with someone that was honest. GS: Yes, I think that&#039 ; s why my parents did business with you. JH: Right, but anyway as I said the Lord was good to us, he gave us enough money to get a new home and take care of our child that went to college, so everything--I&#039 ; ve had a pretty good life [Indecipherable] GS: Where did Candy go to college? JH: She went down to OBU for a while, and then to Edmond GS: And where does she live now? JH: She lives in Tulsa GS: In Tulsa, for some reason I thought she lived in New York JH: No, uh-uh GS: Okay, well I sure didn&#039 ; t know that. Let&#039 ; s see here, what memories do you have of Bristow when you had the tire shop? You know, like maybe businesses you did business with or events that they had, like Western Heritage Days, they had the Western Heritage Days. JH: Yeah, my father-in-law had horses and I decided that I&#039 ; d like to be a cowboy, so I started riding one of his horses and he said Well [Indecipherable] guy try to teach you, you know, to be a [Indecipherable]. I tried that for a while, but you don&#039 ; t just decide [Indecipherable] GS: Yes JH: And I kind of hurt my back one evening riding the horse, and Jackie said &quot ; I think that&#039 ; s the end of your cowboying&quot ; . And of course Candy was little. GS: Uh-huh JH: But anyway, we had lots of fun GS: Good, did you belong to any organizations in Bristow? JH: Yeah, I belonged to the Rotary Club and of course was a member of First Baptist church GS: Right, were there any project you were active--were there any projects that you were active in in those two organizations? JH: Yes, Rotary Club usually had some kind of fundraisers or I was cleaning up the city or doing something like this about all the time. Of course it depended on what kind of a President we had, whether he wanted to do projects or not. GS: Right, right. What kind of tires did you sell at Bristow Tire? JH: Goodyear was my main tire and I used some, I bought some cheaper tires-- GS: For people to afford, yeah JH: What Hun? GS: If they couldn&#039 ; t afford the Goodyear tires? JH: Yes, right GS: Yes. Did you have good business dealings with your--did you have good business with your suppliers? JH: Oh yes, you bet GS: Good, good, good. Any big thoughts stand out while you had Bristow Tire? Anything stand out while you owned that? I take-- JH: Well I have one, there was a lady that came in one day and she said, and I thought it was pretty nice, she said &quot ; You&#039 ; re a Christian, aren&#039 ; t you?&quot ; I said &quot ; Yes ma&#039 ; am, I am&quot ; . I said &quot ; How&#039 ; d you know?&quot ; , she said &quot ; Because you always have a smile on your face&quot ; GS: Aw how wonderful JH: And that meant a lot to me GS: Well you better believe it, that was a good witness too JH: Yeah GS: That&#039 ; s wonderful, do you-- JH: Of course we had lots of people who weren&#039 ; t smiling also GS: Yes, there always are JH: Yeah GS: When did you sell your Bristow Tire? JH: Oh my gosh, let&#039 ; s see. I&#039 ; d guess it&#039 ; s been probably 15 years ago or so GS: And you sold to Jack Smith? JH: Jack Smith, uh-huh GS: Okay. And now his son is running it, Elliot Smith JH: Yes GS: Yes, any other memories of main street? JH: No, just the memories of back in the 30&#039 ; s and 40&#039 ; s when all the oil fields here GS: Did you ever see Bob Wills when he came through town? JH: Oh yeah, uh-huh GS: At the J&amp ; J Café? JH: No, it was in--Bob Wills was at Hamburger King GS: I meant Hamburger King, I said J&amp ; J but I knew it was Hamburger King JH: Well he--he was a Hamburger King man GS: That&#039 ; s right JH: No I never did go to any of the performances GS: But you got to see him here in town JH: Yes, mhm: How did you get information about the war when you were in the 40&#039 ; s? JH: How did I get information? GS: Uh-huh, like over the radio, television? JH: [Indecipherable] well all we got was--on the radio, of course until we went into the army, and we got very little even when we were in the army just on what we were doing and maybe what we were gonna do. GS: Yes, they wouldn&#039 ; t give you any more information, would they? JH: No, no. Not lots of information GS: What would you consider to be the most important change that has happened in your lifetime? JH: A what? GS: An invention or maybe an invention--an important invention? JH: No I can&#039 ; t remember one, there were so many little--you know, when you were raised, when you&#039 ; re a little country boy, everything is new and kind of nice kind of to you GS: True JH: So everything was very interesting then. GS: Yes, it was JH: Lots of changes taking place GS: There were, how is the world different today than it was back then? JH: One thing I think we were much friendlier back then, and of course the--we get so much information now so easily and they didn&#039 ; t back then GS: Right JH: We had to depend on the radio or the newspaper, sometimes that was a little bit late coming out GS: Right, what newspaper did you read? JH: Tulsa World, and the Bristow News--Bristow Record GS: Bristow Record, yes. Have you been affected any by the pandemic that we&#039 ; re going through? The COVID pandemic? JH: Not really GS: That&#039 ; s good, that&#039 ; s good. Did you get lonesome here when it was in lockdown? JH: Oh yes, sure GS: Is there anything I haven&#039 ; t thought to ask you J C that you would like to tell me? JH: No, I can&#039 ; t think of anything, I just--I&#039 ; ve had a [Indecipherable]. There is one thing back when I was a kid, we lived out in the country, we didn&#039 ; t have electricity, and it--my mother did have a washing machine, it was gasoline operated. And one--on wash day one day, she did the washer, and of course we didn&#039 ; t have a dryer, and we had everything on the clothes line. GS: Uh-huh JH: Usually all of our clothes had to be washed. But anyway we hung them all on the clothes line, and it came time to get them in, we thought we went out and checked them and my mother said that they&#039 ; re still a little damp, let&#039 ; s just leave them out tonight and we&#039 ; ll bring them in tomorrow. Well the next morning we woke up, we didn&#039 ; t have any clothes or clothes pin, we had nothing. Someone had stolen all of our clothes GS: Oh my goodness, the [Indecipherable] JH: And another time, just listen to this. Another time we went out and we always had a few chickens so we had eggs. And we&#039 ; d went out to turn the chickens out the next morning, there wasn&#039 ; t any chickens [Indecipherable] GS: Oh myJH: And I&#039 ; m not through yet. We all--we had a garage, and the car was in it, and we always had a pretty nice car. But anyway, dad opened the garage door and the car was sitting on blocks. Somebody had stolen all the tires and wheels. GS: Wow JH: And we thought we were in a nice neighborhood GS: Was that in the 30&#039 ; s? JH: Yes GS: Yeah, during the depression time JJ: And we were sure disappointed, you know, when your--you say that you might be poor folks. My dad had a job but they didn&#039 ; t pay a lot back then. But anyway we lived through all of it. GS: I think you were one of the fortunate ones, you didn&#039 ; t have to get up and move JH: That&#039 ; s right GS: You always had food on the table JH: Right GS: So I think your family was rich JH: We surely were GS: And you had each other JH: Uh-huh GS: And did all of your siblings grow into adulthood? JH: Yes GS: That&#039 ; s wonderful, it is wonderful JH: They&#039 ; re all gone now, but they were adults. GS: One thing I forgot to ask you, when you first took over Bristow tire, was it in the same location that it is now? JH: Yes, right. GS: Do you remember that address? It&#039 ; s on West 4th, I know. JH: Yes GS: Probably the 100 block of West 4th JH: It&#039 ; s one something, I can&#039 ; t remember exactly GS: Yeah, okay but it was in the same location? JH: Yes, uh-huh GS: Was it ever in a different location? JH: Yes, my father-in-law had it--it was up on main at, let&#039 ; s see what&#039 ; s that on that corner? Where Bolin Ford is? GS: Okay, so maybe 11th street? JH: [Indecipherable], that&#039 ; s where he had his tire shop GS: Okay JH: It&#039 ; s a very small place GS: Did he move it ; I guess he moved it to 4th street before you took it over JH: Yes, yeah. GS: Okay, alright. J C, I just appreciate you so much for letting me interview you JH: Thank you GS: And next time you see Candy, tell her I said hi. JH: Thank you for coming by GS: I really, really appreciate it and we really appreciate it at the museum JH: Yeah, I&#039 ; ve had a long life, I&#039 ; ve had a good life, and I praise God for it. GS: Amen audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-19,_Hutson,_J_C.xml OHP-2021-19,_Hutson,_J_C.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 3700 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource J C Hutson Description An account of the resource In this 2021 interview, J C Hutson talks about growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses his time in the military and owning the Bristow Tire Shop. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-2021-19 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-07-19 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource sound, oral history Bob Wills Bristow Tire First Baptist Church Great Depression Greyhound bus Mountain Home School Rotary Club stores World War II https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/763d6e6b19d44940599c76843a980573.jpg a807ef2b39dffd935a72481d5fc78230 https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/9916cadafb33b362dbe7fe40bfb0ec2e.jpg 0ade099048e9302fa6e81242da9567c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ed Cadenhead Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jack Carman Reba Carman OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040A_Jack_Carman.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 June 7, 1979 OHP-0040A Jack Carman OHP-0040A 0:00-25:30, 25:33-35:25 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jack Carman Reba Carman Ed Cadenhead 1:|9(2)|25(2)|40(3)|50(5)|68(2)|85(5)|97(10)|111(3)|129(2)|144(1)|154(7)|165(12)|188(2)|209(12)|228(8)|249(8)|266(5)|284(10)|292(2)|303(5)|310(13)|326(12)|342(13)|354(14)|367(5)|380(1)|399(13)|411(3)|435(4)|467(8)|476(7)|492(3)|503(9)|514(10) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0040A Carman, Jack.mp3 Other audio 4 Family history of Jack Carman EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don’t we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. Family history of Jack Carman including their move from Billings, Missouri Billings Oil Company ; Billings, Missouri ; buying land ; cattle business ; oil boom ; Springfield, Missouri ; trading with Indians 121 Childhood memories in Bristow EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn’t but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T’s pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I’d have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. Childhood memories in Bristow including working at Model T Ford Agency date of birth ; driving ; Model T ; Model T Ford Agency Childhood memories in Bristow 170 Attending School EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn’t want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? Attending school in Bristow and college at OU bull dozing ; farming ; Mr. Hutton ; OU ; sliding on railing ; superintendent ; two-story school Attending School 260 Oil Boom EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don’t know exactly but it was about ’23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That’s way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. What the town of Bristow was like during the oil boom 1923 ; born 1905 ; cotton days ; dirt streets ; oil boom ; wagons ; wooden sidewalks 338 Jobs in School EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they’d get a car load of Model T’s in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. He worked for his dad at the Ford Agency putting cars together and teaching farmers how to drive driving ; Ford Agency ; jobs ; Model T Jobs in School 410 Jobs after College EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let’s see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn’t like coaching too well. Jobs after college including coaching at Poteau for two years coaching ; new car ; Poteau ; The Depression 438 Memories from Youth EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That’s a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we’d shove ‘em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. Memories from youth including pranks and 4th of July picnics 4th of July ; fireworks ; ice cream ; outhouses ; picnics ; pranks 524 Events During the Oil Boom EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There’s a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. The population of Bristow grew during the oil boom which made for gambling and fights and the need for US Marshal, Billy Freshour. Billy Freshour ; cotton wagon ; gambling ; jail ; Paul Jones ; population ; The Depression ; US Marshal ; Well's Grocery Events During the Oil Boom 715 Politics in Bristow EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that’s [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. Jack ran for County Commissioner and Mark Schrader was mayor county commissioner ; politics ; republican ; town leaders ; WWII 837 Notable Events in Bristow JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? Notable events in Bristow including harvest day, bank robberies and race relations bank robberies ; harvest day ; Ku Klux Klan ; race relations ; riot ; Tulsa 966 Indian Relations and Moonshine EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn’t had any trouble there. They weren’t very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn’t get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, “Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?” I said, “Hell no!” He said, “Well, you got a still running over there.” And I said, “Well, hell, let’s go over there and look at it.” Indian relations and a moonshine still on Jack's property Indians ; liquor ; moonshine ; still Indian Relations and Moonshine 1045 Major Land Owners EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly’s has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. Major land owners included Jack's dad and the Kelly Family Indian land deals ; liquor ; The Kellys 1086 Building of Heyburn Lake EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don’t know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. Jack and Brick Kirchner worked to clear the land for Heyburn Lake just in time for floods to ruin their progress Brick Kirchner ; building Heyburn Lake ; floods ; Heyburn Lake ; lawsuit Building of Heyburn Lake 35.9526° N, 96.3027° W 17 Heyburn Lake https://corpslakes.erdc.dren.mil/visitors/projects.cfm?ID=M507500 Heyburn Lake 1198 Sports EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days…sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid’s dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. Sports and betting on sports was big during the oil boom in Bristow athletics ; betting ; cheating ; Norman ; oil boom ; Oklahoma City ; sports ; state championship 1307 Travel EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He’d go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. People often vacationed in Colorado and most of Jack's business connections were in OKC business connections ; cattle market ; Colorado ; Norman ; Oklahoma City ; Siloam Springs ; travel ; vacations business connections in OKC ; vacation to Colorado 1391 Buildings Around Town EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that’s still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? Jack's dad built the first brick building and made the bricks for the building Bill Cheatham ; Community State Bank ; Dr. King ; Dr. Schrader ; first brick building ; first hospital ; Joe Abraham ; making bricks ; Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. ; Reba Carman Buildings Around Town ; First brick building ; First hospital 1571 Reba's Family EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn’t like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. Reba's family came from Tennessee when she was six-months old where her dad, Dr. Wells settled their family in Newby Dr. Wells ; family ; Newby ; Tennessee Dr. Wells ; Reba's family 1639 Reba's Memories of Bristow EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn’t go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well’s Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. Women didn't go out at night alone during the oil boom because the streets were rough. Bristow felt small enough to feel close but large enough to have things like the Chautauqua and Billy Sunday in OKC. Billy Sunday ; Chautauqua ; flu epidemic ; oil boom ; The Depression ; WWI doing without during The Depression ; Rowdy times during the oil boom ; seeing Billy Sunday ; the Chautauqua visiting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chautauqua Chautauqua 1816 Town Doctors &amp ; First Hospital EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I’ve heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any… RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but… RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they’re the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You’re right. The town and the politics of the town. Reba's dad, Dr. Wells, along with three other doctors, formed the Bristow Clinic &amp ; Hospital. Bristow Clinic &amp ; Hospital ; Bristow Memorial Hospital ; doctors ; Dr. Bisbee ; Dr. Hollis ; Dr. Wells ; Dr. Williams ; John Collins ; Mrs. Kelly ; politics Bristow Clinic &amp ; Hospital ; Bristow Memorial Hospital ; doctors were town leaders 1970 Church Involvement &amp ; Catholic Relations EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven’t asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don’t think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It’s been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. Reba was very involved in the churches of Bristow, attending the Methodist Church, and recalls Catholic relations being good. The first brick church was the First Christian Church. Catholics ; church ; Ed Abraham ; first brick church ; First Christian Church ; Lebanese ; Methodist Church ; Syrians ; Useph Abraham attending the Methodist Church ; Catholic relations ; First Christian Church MP3 1979 interview with Jack Carman and his wife, Reba. Jack spoke on the oil boom, growing up around Bristow, working at his dad's Ford Agency and the depression. He also spoke on his part in building Heyburn Lake. Reba spoke about her childhood, moving to Newby where her dad practiced medicine, and, eventually, moving back to Bristow at the age of six. Her dad was a physician and integral part of medical care in Bristow, establishing the first Bristow Clinic and Hospital with three other physicians. She described growing up in Bristow and the Chautauqua coming through. She was also involved with the churches of Bristow, specifically the Methodist Church. EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don&#039 ; t we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. EC: I&#039 ; ve noticed there were several people from Bristow who came, their families came from Billings, Missouri. Was there any connection that you know of? JC: Well, yeah, dad was the first one come down, and he got to trading with the Indians, you know, and got acquainted, and got to making a good bit of money was one reason in the cattle business, of course, and buying land. Then it wasn&#039 ; t very long after that the oil boom came, and that&#039 ; s when things did start happening. He had to organize his Billings Oil Company. There was so many people down here from Billings, and they sold stock in there, and I think they made a little money but not a whole lot on that. EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn&#039 ; t but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T&#039 ; s pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I&#039 ; d have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn&#039 ; t want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? JC: Well, my dad and the superintendent were good friends, so that put me in a different category from the rest of them. But the school house that I went to school in had been torn down. That&#039 ; s right across from the gymnasium now. It was a rock school. Several pictures of it around town here. Mr. Hutton (ph) was the superintendent then. It was two-story, and they had a nice slick railing, you know, from the first story to the bottom story and the street level. The bell would ring and we&#039 ; d scoot on out while all us boys would slide down that railing. The superintendent didn&#039 ; t like that very well, so he just drove some nails, two or three of them, into the railing just high enough that it would catch your britches, not your skin. That stopped the sliding. EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don&#039 ; t know exactly but it was about &#039 ; 23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That&#039 ; s way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they&#039 ; d get a car load of Model T&#039 ; s in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. Of course, I had two or three school kids that helped me. One day there was a farmer that brought a car in and said, Mr. Carman, seems like this seat is trying to get away from the chassis. Dad looked around a little on it and found out I didn&#039 ; t put the body bolts in that connected. It was just sitting on there. And that was the last time I had any school kids to help me. I had to do it by myself. EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let&#039 ; s see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn&#039 ; t like coaching too well. EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That&#039 ; s a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we&#039 ; d shove &#039 ; em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. EC: Did you, do you remember the Fourth of July picnics? JC: Well, they had one every year, and I don&#039 ; t know-- EC: Well, that&#039 ; s what I mean, I just heard that was an annual affair, and I wondered what one was like. [inaudible] JC: Well, mostly what I can remember about it was they had a lot of banners, you know, and just a red, white and blue and flags like all decorated, band stand in front of the stores, setting off fire crackers and [inaudible]. Yeah, had a lot of times free ice cream. EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There&#039 ; s a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. EC: What can you tell me about him? JC: Well, he was short with a large stomach. He was daring, and I don&#039 ; t think anybody was afraid of him, and he wasn&#039 ; t afraid of anybody at all. Let&#039 ; s see, he lived to be pretty old to be a sheriff. They had the jail down about where [inaudible]. What&#039 ; s the damn grocery store down there? Well&#039 ; s, yeah, it was down there in the Well&#039 ; s corner of the Well&#039 ; s grocery store down there. They finally got a new enough courthouse. EC: You were about to tell the story about the jail, I think. JC: Oh well, an instance in junior high or high school it was. Let&#039 ; s see, how&#039 ; d that go? Oh, after school were shooting craps up in the gym, you know. One fellow, Paul Jones, went out to the police station, and he swept the police station out. They made it up against us that the law was to come up there and arrest us for shooting craps, you know. So, two or three laws came up and took us down and put us in the jail. Policeman said, &quot ; Now you want to turn this joke around while you just tell them that you found out that Paul Jones is the one that turned you in, you see.&quot ; We did, and we didn&#039 ; t see Paul, you know, for a day or two because he was hiding out. EC: When the depression came, what evidences of it did you notice in Bristow? JC: That was 1930 when I got out of college. That&#039 ; s when I found out. I got married. I had a car and all that I found out where all this money was coming from. People just didn&#039 ; t have fans. Didn&#039 ; t have a lot of things. The oil boom, of course, helped out on that deal. EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that&#039 ; s [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. EC: Who would you say ran the town in those days? JC: Who ran the town? EC: Who ran the town? JC: Oh, Mark Schrader (ph) was the mayor two or three times here, and he was [inaudible]. Who? Oh, Jimmy Weaver [inaudible]. EC: What about World War II? Any particular effects on Bristow that you recall? JC: Well, it didn&#039 ; t affect me too much. I was too old for World War II, and I wasn&#039 ; t old enough for WWI, so I came in between there. None of my family, luckily, didn&#039 ; t have to go. Of course, I had my cows and I still kept [indecipherable]. [Inaudible] JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? JC: Well, I saw one bank robbery. I saw them come out shooting. I forgot what bank it was. I just happened be going down the street, you know, and I saw this old boy come out, and somebody had gotten up on the building across the street shooting at this bank robber. I saw where the brick, you know, shell went in the building into the brick. EC: When you think of Bristow, do you think of it now, this many years later, do you think of it mainly as a farming area, cattle raising or what? JC: Well, I had a little part in all of it, I think, pretty well, around the town. You can make a living if you work at it, you know. EC: You told a story earlier, the part about the Ku Klux Klan. Do you remember there being a Klan here in Bristow? JC: I don&#039 ; t know if there was any here or not, but I remember reading, you know, all over the country about it and this and that. EC: How do you feel relationships between the races have been in Bristow? Have there been any problems? JC: No. I remember that one up in Tulsa. They had a big riot up there, you know. People from here went up there with guns. I remember that. [Inaudible] EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn&#039 ; t had any trouble there. They weren&#039 ; t very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn&#039 ; t get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, &quot ; Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?&quot ; I said, &quot ; Hell no!&quot ; He said, &quot ; Well, you got a still running over there.&quot ; And I said, &quot ; Well, hell, let&#039 ; s go over there and look at it.&quot ; And there was one over on the back side, wasn&#039 ; t but about a mile from where I lived. There was an old copper boiler and actually with fire under it right in operation, you know. It had two or three fifty-gallon barrels, wooden barrels, sitting around. Of course, nobody was there that heard us coming up, I guess. [indecipherable] didn&#039 ; t have a chance to move his still. I took a team. I had a team wagon those days and took it over there I hauled the mash home and fed it to the hogs. I had the copper to sell. I had a little spring over there. That&#039 ; s how come they [indecipherable] how it got there or whose it was. EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly&#039 ; s has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don&#039 ; t know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. A big flood came and washed all a lot of trees down in what he had already cleaned up. The government made us go back and clean what we had cleaned up, [indecipherable] and we figured it was acts of God, and we wasn&#039 ; t liable for it, you know, getting all the flood water down on that. It liked to washed the Heyburn Dam out anyway. But we sued the government, but we didn&#039 ; t do any good. Just about broke even on the deal, so that was lucky. EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days--sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid&#039 ; s dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. We had a special train left at Bristow and went to the city with four or five cars on it. I wasn&#039 ; t on it but they said that was pretty rough. Plenty of liquor and drinking going on. Had five cars [indecipherable]. Norman football game, we lost. Come to find out the referees did have money on the game. One instance [indecipherable] ran out, trained to run out of bounds. The umpire overruled that. Then they said, well, he was a holding back up the way of somebody at Bristow. EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He&#039 ; d go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. EC: Did you go to Siloam Springs at all? JC: Just drove over there for the weekend or day. EC: Were your business connections in Bristow through Tulsa or through Oklahoma City or Kansas City or where? JC: Mostly Oklahoma City. Sold cattle down on the Oklahoma City market, and I borrowed my money for school [indecipherable] and went to school at Norman, so that put me down in Oklahoma City more than it would have Tulsa. EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that&#039 ; s still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? JC: Yeah, there&#039 ; s a lot of them. Of course, a lot of them burned and a lot of them tore down. My dad had the first brick building in Bristow. He met the brick guy here on east 8th Street, there was a little creek out there had water and right kind of sand or brick material. They had an old mule or something like, you know, squeezing sorghum. They put this mixture in his box and the mule would turn it to mix the mortar to make brick with. And they had mold where they made it. Then they had a fire they call it, you know, to heat them to make the brick where they&#039 ; d stand up to weather. He made the brick for this first brick building in Bristow. When they tore it down about two or three years ago, I saved a lot of the brick out of it. Some of the brick. Deteriorating the brick and, then I forget who owned it then, plastered it, plastered over it. Then that got to deteriorating, so they put a new brick wall on the outside of it and all that&#039 ; s old was still in there. Then when they opened the Community State Bank (ph) [indecipherable]. Then when they decided to build the new Community State Bank (ph), they had to tear all the inside brick out of it, as well as, the new outside. EC: This is Mrs. Jack Carman (RC) RC: The first hospital that I ever remember is down here on North Main, next door north of the Masonic Temple. It&#039 ; s still standing. It&#039 ; s an apartment house now. And Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. had charge of it. That was before she married Mr. Kelly. Of course, the doctors all had offices upstairs downtown in the building over the stores downtown. My father had an office in the same building as Dr. King and Dr. Schrader. EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn&#039 ; t like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. [Inaudible] RC: Oh, yes, drove a horse and buggy. Then we came to Bristow before I was six-years-old, and we&#039 ; ve been here ever since. EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn&#039 ; t go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well&#039 ; s Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. It was a dirty place, of course. But women didn&#039 ; t go out at night without someone being with them, because it was pretty rough. I can remember the terrible flu epidemic we had during WWI, how my father worked night and day, and how we would beg him to stop. But, no, he was needed. But that was a terrible time. I can remember that. That flu epidemic was [indecipherable]. EC: What other things stick in your mind about growing up in Bristow? RC: Well, I think it&#039 ; s been a marvelous place. It&#039 ; s been just small enough that it was close. And, big enough, we had Chautauqua. Do you remember the Chautauqua and the [indecipherable] courses? We had those in the summer time, and they were up here this, back where the library stands now, along in there. You remember that, Jack? The Chautauqua? And we were close enough even to Tulsa and Oklahoma City, anything big that went on, we would take the train and go to the city [indecipherable]. And when Billy Sunday was in Oklahoma City, the big evangelist, why we all went down to hear Billy Sunday. But I think it&#039 ; s been a fine place. [Inaudible] EC: What, thinking of the Chautauqua, did they have the tent? RC: Oh yeah, great big tent and chairs and everybody just smothering to death and fanning like mad. EC: Do you remember any of the people that came through? RC: No, off hand, I don&#039 ; t. No, I really don&#039 ; t. EC: That would have been about what years? RC: Oh, that would have been in, in the early 20s or late eighteen, nineteen, somewhere along in there. EC: Do you have any memories of the depression that stick in your mind? RC: Well, no. We were married, and of course, had three little tiny kids, so that was depression enough, you know. Just the usual things. Nothing in particular. We just didn&#039 ; t buy anything we didn&#039 ; t HAVE to have. EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I&#039 ; ve heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any-- RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but-- RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they&#039 ; re the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You&#039 ; re right. The town and the politics of the town. EC: They did? EC: About how many doctors were there in those days? RC: Well, I remember from the enterprise, oh, we had nine or ten [indecipherable]. EC: And the hospital that Mrs. Kelly, did she run it? RC: Yes. Uh huh. EC: Who actually started it? Do you know? RC: No, I don&#039 ; t recall who actually started it. That&#039 ; s my first recollection of it is that she was running the hospital, and my father being a doctor, I expect that&#039 ; s the only reason I remember that part of it. And it was there, then, until my father and Dr. Hollis and Dr. Bisbee and Dr. Williams organized a clinic, and went into the building, now occupied by Schumacher Funeral Home, and it was called the Bristow Clinic. And they were there several years. Then they built, just across the street, east of the American Legion Hut. They built the Bristow Clinic and Hospital was the new first new hospital they ever had. And they ran that for, well, I don&#039 ; t know many years. It was the Bristow Clinic and Hospital. And then Bristow began to get bigger and the need was there for more hospitalizations and better care, a graduate nurse, for instance, and things like that. So then, John Collins was really instrumental. EC: Who? RC: John Collins in starting, as I recall, the movement for the hospital out here, Bristow Memorial Hospital. But the need was there, definitely. And my father and the three partners dissolved up in years and sold out to the sister and Todd (ph) [indecipherable] from Tulsa. Dr. [indecipherable] sister is still in Tulsa, as well as, one of the young boys. [Inaudible] EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven&#039 ; t asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don&#039 ; t think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It&#039 ; s been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. EC: Have you been aware of any anti-Catholic feelings in Bristow in your life here? RC: I don&#039 ; t think so, particularly, there has been some, I think. As I can recall, now I&#039 ; m not saying it&#039 ; s true, but as I recall, most of the Catholic people were the, what we call Syrians then, but they call themselves Lebanese now, came into Bristow, Cejul (ph) and Ed and Useph Abraham, the three brothers came to Bristow. And, of course, they were all Catholic. I believe that&#039 ; s my first memory of that, and then, of course, as other people moved in, people from back east in the oil [indecipherable] so it changed from being predominantly foreign-born people to more like it is today. EC: Had there been any major controversies in Bristow that you remember? Things like arguments over whether to, oh, pave the streets or whether to build the new City Hall? Or has there been anything that&#039 ; s really controversial? RC: I don&#039 ; t think of anything, really. I think we&#039 ; ve done pretty well through the years without any big fights over anything. Do you remember anything? EC: This is an interview with Jack Carman, June 7, 1979. Why don't we start with just you. Tell me where your folks came from? What you know about why they came if you do, anything like that. JC: Well, my folks came from Billings, Missouri out of Springfield, Missouri a little ways. And my dad used to buy cattle in the early day and down in Indian Territory and took [indecipherable] train back to St. Louis, and he got acquainted in this country. Finally, he moved down, moved his family down. He had five children, and [inaudible]. Yeah, he just had one child then, and the rest of us was born here in Bristow. EC: I've noticed there were several people from Bristow who came, their families came from Billings, Missouri. Was there any connection that you know of? JC: Well, yeah, dad was the first one come down, and he got to trading with the Indians, you know, and got acquainted, and got to making a good bit of money was one reason in the cattle business, of course, and buying land. Then it wasn't very long after that the oil boom came, and that's when things did start happening. He had to organize his Billings Oil Company. There was so many people down here from Billings, and they sold stock in there, and I think they made a little money but not a whole lot on that. EC: Well, when were you born? JC: 1905. EC: Alright, what were some of your early memories about your childhood? Anything special, you know? What do you remember about Bristow and what life was like, what you did? JC: My dad had a Model T Ford Agency here in Bristow during the boom, and I wasn't but about 12 or 13 when I learned how to drive one of those Model T's pretty early in life. Every time we sold one to a farmer, why I'd have to teach them how to drive. They never had driven before or hardly ridden in a car. That was quite an experience for me. EC: You went to school here? JC: Yeah, and graduated and went to OU, and graduated there, and coached a couple of years. I decided I didn't want anymore of that, so I came home and started farming and bull dozing and a little bit of everything. EC: What were the schools like when you went to school in Bristow? JC: Well, my dad and the superintendent were good friends, so that put me in a different category from the rest of them. But the school house that I went to school in had been torn down. That's right across from the gymnasium now. It was a rock school. Several pictures of it around town here. Mr. Hutton (ph) was the superintendent then. It was two-story, and they had a nice slick railing, you know, from the first story to the bottom story and the street level. The bell would ring and we'd scoot on out while all us boys would slide down that railing. The superintendent didn't like that very well, so he just drove some nails, two or three of them, into the railing just high enough that it would catch your britches, not your skin. That stopped the sliding. EC: You mentioned the oil boom. When you think of the boom, what years do you mean? JC: Well, I don't know exactly but it was about '23 or something. EC: Right. JC: That's way back there, and I was, I was born in 1905. But they had two or three after that and that was the first one anyway. EC: What do you remember about the town of Bristow as the boom hit? Do you remember any changes? JC: Yeah. We used to have dirt streets, mostly, I think, when the boom hit. I remember there was dirt streets and they had wooden sidewalks, they followed along in front of the stores and buildings. And if you was pretty heavy and you could step on the outside of one of those boards was about four foot wide in front of the building, while then the other ones would fly up. EC: Well, do you remember the cotton days and all the wagons in the street? JC: Yeah, gosh yeah. We had a lot of fun playing on the wagons that came in town. EC: Did you have any jobs that, oh in high school or as a teenager? Did you work around town at all? JC: Yeah, I worked plenty but it was for my dad. EC: In the Ford Agency, mainly? JC: Well, I was just kind of a small kid, and when they'd get a car load of Model T's in the train, why they had the body off of them and the chassis, you know, all in the same box car. My job was to put the body on the chassis and bolt it down, so they would go together. Of course, I had two or three school kids that helped me. One day there was a farmer that brought a car in and said, Mr. Carman, seems like this seat is trying to get away from the chassis. Dad looked around a little on it and found out I didn't put the body bolts in that connected. It was just sitting on there. And that was the last time I had any school kids to help me. I had to do it by myself. EC: After you got out of college, what kind of business did you go into? JC: Well, like I say, I coached two years over at Poteau. That was the start of the depression. We got married that year and graduated. Let's see what else did I [inaudible], huh? Yeah, had my first new car. I was really on top until I found I didn't like coaching too well. EC: Did you, when you were a child, what kind of things did kids do? Horseback riding or what was the fun part of life when you were a kid? JC: That's a hard question. [inaudible] EC: Any of them pranks? JC: Oh yeah. Had one past time of Halloween, you know we all had outhouses, and at night we'd shove 'em over. Then they modernized those out houses, you know, and put water system in them in the outhouse and it was a little harder to push over then with plumbing in there. EC: Did you, do you remember the Fourth of July picnics? JC: Well, they had one every year, and I don't know-- EC: Well, that's what I mean, I just heard that was an annual affair, and I wondered what one was like. [inaudible] JC: Well, mostly what I can remember about it was they had a lot of banners, you know, and just a red, white and blue and flags like all decorated, band stand in front of the stores, setting off fire crackers and [inaudible]. Yeah, had a lot of times free ice cream. EC: Did Bristow seem crowded to you during the oil boom? JC: Yeah, it was crowded. There was about twenty-five to thirty thousand people here compared with five or six they got now, counting the cotton wagon [indecipherable]. EC: Was it a typical oil town in the sense that there was fights and gambling or whatever? JC: Yeah, money changed hands pretty freely, and fortunes were made and lost over night or gambling, you know. EC: There's a former marshal I have only heard about, Uncle Billy? JC: Billy Freshour. EC: What can you tell me about him? JC: Well, he was short with a large stomach. He was daring, and I don't think anybody was afraid of him, and he wasn't afraid of anybody at all. Let's see, he lived to be pretty old to be a sheriff. They had the jail down about where [inaudible]. What's the damn grocery store down there? Well's, yeah, it was down there in the Well's corner of the Well's grocery store down there. They finally got a new enough courthouse. EC: You were about to tell the story about the jail, I think. JC: Oh well, an instance in junior high or high school it was. Let's see, how'd that go? Oh, after school were shooting craps up in the gym, you know. One fellow, Paul Jones, went out to the police station, and he swept the police station out. They made it up against us that the law was to come up there and arrest us for shooting craps, you know. So, two or three laws came up and took us down and put us in the jail. Policeman said, &quot ; Now you want to turn this joke around while you just tell them that you found out that Paul Jones is the one that turned you in, you see.&quot ; We did, and we didn't see Paul, you know, for a day or two because he was hiding out. EC: When the depression came, what evidences of it did you notice in Bristow? JC: That was 1930 when I got out of college. That's when I found out. I got married. I had a car and all that I found out where all this money was coming from. People just didn't have fans. Didn't have a lot of things. The oil boom, of course, helped out on that deal. EC: Were you ever involved in politics in Bristow? JC: Yeah, I run for County Commissioner once and that's [indecipherable] from now on. EC: Who were some of the people who were involved in politics? Were there two sides? Was there democrats versus republicans or were there factions in town? How would you describe the politics in Bristow? JC: Well, [inaudible] I never did take part. Yeah, my dad was a republican, of course, I was, too, and all us kids. I never forget my dad never did take much part in politics, but my mother and brother did, my older brother. He got beat, too. EC: Who would you say ran the town in those days? JC: Who ran the town? EC: Who ran the town? JC: Oh, Mark Schrader (ph) was the mayor two or three times here, and he was [inaudible]. Who? Oh, Jimmy Weaver [inaudible]. EC: What about World War II? Any particular effects on Bristow that you recall? JC: Well, it didn't affect me too much. I was too old for World War II, and I wasn't old enough for WWI, so I came in between there. None of my family, luckily, didn't have to go. Of course, I had my cows and I still kept [indecipherable]. [Inaudible] JC: On harvest day, you know, everybody got their guns up shooting, you know, celebrating. Somebody accidently shot the rope from the flag pole, and they thought there was a traitor there in the crowd shooting the flag down. EC: Well, had there been any, particularly, oh, amusing things that have happened in Bristow over the years or exciting things that you happened to see? Were you involved in any of those bank robberies or anything like that? JC: Well, I saw one bank robbery. I saw them come out shooting. I forgot what bank it was. I just happened be going down the street, you know, and I saw this old boy come out, and somebody had gotten up on the building across the street shooting at this bank robber. I saw where the brick, you know, shell went in the building into the brick. EC: When you think of Bristow, do you think of it now, this many years later, do you think of it mainly as a farming area, cattle raising or what? JC: Well, I had a little part in all of it, I think, pretty well, around the town. You can make a living if you work at it, you know. EC: You told a story earlier, the part about the Ku Klux Klan. Do you remember there being a Klan here in Bristow? JC: I don't know if there was any here or not, but I remember reading, you know, all over the country about it and this and that. EC: How do you feel relationships between the races have been in Bristow? Have there been any problems? JC: No. I remember that one up in Tulsa. They had a big riot up there, you know. People from here went up there with guns. I remember that. [Inaudible] EC: How do you feel that the relationship between Indians and whites has been? JC: We hadn't had any trouble there. They weren't very [indecipherable] but they did get along and didn't get in much trouble. They liked liquor like all other Indians. EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Huh? EC: Where did the liquor come from in Bristow? JC: Oh, moonshine mostly. Made it out in the country. Once instance when I was out on the farm, this fellow came up and said, &quot ; Say you making whiskey over on the back side of your place?&quot ; I said, &quot ; Hell no!&quot ; He said, &quot ; Well, you got a still running over there.&quot ; And I said, &quot ; Well, hell, let's go over there and look at it.&quot ; And there was one over on the back side, wasn't but about a mile from where I lived. There was an old copper boiler and actually with fire under it right in operation, you know. It had two or three fifty-gallon barrels, wooden barrels, sitting around. Of course, nobody was there that heard us coming up, I guess. [indecipherable] didn't have a chance to move his still. I took a team. I had a team wagon those days and took it over there I hauled the mash home and fed it to the hogs. I had the copper to sell. I had a little spring over there. That's how come they [indecipherable] how it got there or whose it was. EC: Who were some of the major land owners around Bristow? JC: Oh, the Kelly's has been some of the first. My dad, of course, was in that early. Used to, all you had to have was a bottle of liquor and a deed and you could buy land pretty cheap. And then the court had to approve all the Indian deals, of course. EC: Do you think there was a good bit of that done? JC: Yeah, there was some of it, but more and more crude work on the lease and all that. The oil business was trading land, you know. EC: I know what I wanted to ask you about, this Lake Heyburn? JC: Who? EC: Lake Heyburn or Heyburn Lake out here? JC: Yeah, Heyburn Lake. EC: I judge there was some controversy about the building of that. JC: There was on my part. EC: Well, tell me about it. Tell me about it. I don't know anything about the story. JC: Well, Brick Kirchner and I bid on the clearing of the lake, you know, getting the brush off of it. First job we ever had that large and that kind of a job. We started the clearing on it, a $120,000 job, and about three-fourths done [indecipherable] was good up to that date. A big flood came and washed all a lot of trees down in what he had already cleaned up. The government made us go back and clean what we had cleaned up, [indecipherable] and we figured it was acts of God, and we wasn't liable for it, you know, getting all the flood water down on that. It liked to washed the Heyburn Dam out anyway. But we sued the government, but we didn't do any good. Just about broke even on the deal, so that was lucky. EC: I take it that sports were pretty big in Bristow in your high school days--sports, athletics? JC: Oh yeah, because the oil boom mostly. The men had the money and they wanted to bet on the team. They wanted Bristow to win, and if we had a weak spot on the team why the coach or somebody would hire this kid's dad whose job was here and that he would be living in Bristow legal to play on the Bristow team. It was several pictures there of boys that had been moved in, you know, from [indecipherable]. We played for the state championship down in Oklahoma City against Norman. We had a special train left at Bristow and went to the city with four or five cars on it. I wasn't on it but they said that was pretty rough. Plenty of liquor and drinking going on. Had five cars [indecipherable]. Norman football game, we lost. Come to find out the referees did have money on the game. One instance [indecipherable] ran out, trained to run out of bounds. The umpire overruled that. Then they said, well, he was a holding back up the way of somebody at Bristow. EC: You mentioned, speaking of trips, you mentioned earlier that you used to go to Colorado in the summers. Where did people from Bristow go for vacations? Colorado? JC: Well, yeah, Joe Abraham had a big family, and he did about like my dad. He'd go out there and rent one of those houses, you know. They had a big family, and dad would just lay around there and enjoy the cool nights and rest up. And us kids was kind of on our own. I sold newspapers and did a little guide. A whole lot of people wanted the kids to show them where just sight-seeing tour was. EC: Did you go to Siloam Springs at all? JC: Just drove over there for the weekend or day. EC: Were your business connections in Bristow through Tulsa or through Oklahoma City or Kansas City or where? JC: Mostly Oklahoma City. Sold cattle down on the Oklahoma City market, and I borrowed my money for school [indecipherable] and went to school at Norman, so that put me down in Oklahoma City more than it would have Tulsa. EC: Let me ask you, what are some of the houses or buildings still standing that you remember as being some of the oldest? JC: [Indecipherable] Grocery on west sixth street, Dr. Schrader (ph) had this kind of nice house right here next to the park. [Inaudible] EC: Okay, any others? Bill Cheatham (ph) house on 11th. JC: Joe Abraham had this large brick house on 8th Street that's still standing. One of the daughters lives in it. EC: What about downtown? Are there any of the buildings that are the original old ones? JC: Yeah, there's a lot of them. Of course, a lot of them burned and a lot of them tore down. My dad had the first brick building in Bristow. He met the brick guy here on east 8th Street, there was a little creek out there had water and right kind of sand or brick material. They had an old mule or something like, you know, squeezing sorghum. They put this mixture in his box and the mule would turn it to mix the mortar to make brick with. And they had mold where they made it. Then they had a fire they call it, you know, to heat them to make the brick where they'd stand up to weather. He made the brick for this first brick building in Bristow. When they tore it down about two or three years ago, I saved a lot of the brick out of it. Some of the brick. Deteriorating the brick and, then I forget who owned it then, plastered it, plastered over it. Then that got to deteriorating, so they put a new brick wall on the outside of it and all that's old was still in there. Then when they opened the Community State Bank (ph) [indecipherable]. Then when they decided to build the new Community State Bank (ph), they had to tear all the inside brick out of it, as well as, the new outside. EC: This is Mrs. Jack Carman (RC) RC: The first hospital that I ever remember is down here on North Main, next door north of the Masonic Temple. It's still standing. It's an apartment house now. And Mrs. Albert Kelly, Sr. had charge of it. That was before she married Mr. Kelly. Of course, the doctors all had offices upstairs downtown in the building over the stores downtown. My father had an office in the same building as Dr. King and Dr. Schrader. EC: Tell me about your family. Who was your father and where did he come from? RC: My father came, my family came from Tennessee. And the day we landed in Bristow, I was six-months-old, and he had just graduated from medical school in Tennessee and had taken a trip out in Oklahoma, down in the southern part of the state, way down in the south part of the state to find a location. And he didn't like what he had seen in the south and he started back home on the train and met a drug salesman. He told him that there was a little settlement, Newby, 10 miles south of Bristow here, that badly needed a doctor. So he went down and he liked it, so we went back to Tennessee and brought the family out. And we lived in Newby about four years. [Inaudible] RC: Oh, yes, drove a horse and buggy. Then we came to Bristow before I was six-years-old, and we've been here ever since. EC: What are some of your memories of Bristow as a child? RC: Well, I can remember how rough it was during the oil boom. EC: Rough? How? RC: Well, women just couldn't go out on the streets alone. We lived, at that time, over on East 7th Street, and right down there where Well's Grocery Store is, was a livery stable. And on that main street, right across from where Johnny Roberts now lives, was the livery stable. And I remember how carefully we used to have to walk by there, because it was a pretty rough place. It was a dirty place, of course. But women didn't go out at night without someone being with them, because it was pretty rough. I can remember the terrible flu epidemic we had during WWI, how my father worked night and day, and how we would beg him to stop. But, no, he was needed. But that was a terrible time. I can remember that. That flu epidemic was [indecipherable]. EC: What other things stick in your mind about growing up in Bristow? RC: Well, I think it's been a marvelous place. It's been just small enough that it was close. And, big enough, we had Chautauqua. Do you remember the Chautauqua and the [indecipherable] courses? We had those in the summer time, and they were up here this, back where the library stands now, along in there. You remember that, Jack? The Chautauqua? And we were close enough even to Tulsa and Oklahoma City, anything big that went on, we would take the train and go to the city [indecipherable]. And when Billy Sunday was in Oklahoma City, the big evangelist, why we all went down to hear Billy Sunday. But I think it's been a fine place. [Inaudible] EC: What, thinking of the Chautauqua, did they have the tent? RC: Oh yeah, great big tent and chairs and everybody just smothering to death and fanning like mad. EC: Do you remember any of the people that came through? RC: No, off hand, I don't. No, I really don't. EC: That would have been about what years? RC: Oh, that would have been in, in the early 20s or late eighteen, nineteen, somewhere along in there. EC: Do you have any memories of the depression that stick in your mind? RC: Well, no. We were married, and of course, had three little tiny kids, so that was depression enough, you know. Just the usual things. Nothing in particular. We just didn't buy anything we didn't HAVE to have. EC: Now, your father was a doctor. I've heard some interesting stories about some of the doctors here in town. Do you have any-- RC: Not my father. EC: No, no, but-- RC: I can guarantee you that! [Inaudible] RC: Well, they're the ones that ruled the town. EC: They ruled the town? RC: You're right. The town and the politics of the town. EC: They did? EC: About how many doctors were there in those days? RC: Well, I remember from the enterprise, oh, we had nine or ten [indecipherable]. EC: And the hospital that Mrs. Kelly, did she run it? RC: Yes. Uh huh. EC: Who actually started it? Do you know? RC: No, I don't recall who actually started it. That's my first recollection of it is that she was running the hospital, and my father being a doctor, I expect that's the only reason I remember that part of it. And it was there, then, until my father and Dr. Hollis and Dr. Bisbee and Dr. Williams organized a clinic, and went into the building, now occupied by Schumacher Funeral Home, and it was called the Bristow Clinic. And they were there several years. Then they built, just across the street, east of the American Legion Hut. They built the Bristow Clinic and Hospital was the new first new hospital they ever had. And they ran that for, well, I don't know many years. It was the Bristow Clinic and Hospital. And then Bristow began to get bigger and the need was there for more hospitalizations and better care, a graduate nurse, for instance, and things like that. So then, John Collins was really instrumental. EC: Who? RC: John Collins in starting, as I recall, the movement for the hospital out here, Bristow Memorial Hospital. But the need was there, definitely. And my father and the three partners dissolved up in years and sold out to the sister and Todd (ph) [indecipherable] from Tulsa. Dr. [indecipherable] sister is still in Tulsa, as well as, one of the young boys. [Inaudible] EC: Well, have there been any particularly exciting or amusing things in Bristow that I haven't asked about that you remember? Things that happened to you or that you saw? RC: Um, I don't think so. My mother and family were very much involved in the Methodist Church, and I have grown up in the churches and have been familiar with all of them here in Bristow and watched their growth and their organization. The first brick church, first church we had in Bristow was the First Christian Church and it was over on East 9th Street. And the little church that sits down here next to the new City Hall was one of the original. It's been used by several different congregations. The Catholic used it. The Presbyterian used it. And the Christian Science have it now. EC: Have you been aware of any anti-Catholic feelings in Bristow in your life here? RC: I don't think so, particularly, there has been some, I think. As I can recall, now I'm not saying it's true, but as I recall, most of the Catholic people were the, what we call Syrians then, but they call themselves Lebanese now, came into Bristow, Cejul (ph) and Ed and Useph Abraham, the three brothers came to Bristow. And, of course, they were all Catholic. I believe that's my first memory of that, and then, of course, as other people moved in, people from back east in the oil [indecipherable] so it changed from being predominantly foreign-born people to more like it is today. EC: Had there been any major controversies in Bristow that you remember? Things like arguments over whether to, oh, pave the streets or whether to build the new City Hall? Or has there been anything that's really controversial? RC: I don't think of anything, really. I think we've done pretty well through the years without any big fights over anything. Do you remember anything? audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0040A_Jack_Carman.xml OHP-0040A_Jack_Carman.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 3000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jack Carman Description An account of the resource In this 1979 interview with Jack Carman and his wife, Reba, Jack spoke on the oil boom, growing up around Bristow, working at his dad's Ford Agency and the depression. He also spoke on his part in building Heyburn Lake. Reba spoke about her childhood, moving to Newby where her dad practiced medicine, and, eventually, moving back to Bristow at the age of six. Her dad was a physician and integral part of medical care in Bristow, establishing the first Bristow Clinic and Hospital with three other physicians. She described growing up in Bristow and the Chautauqua coming through. She was also involved with the churches of Bristow, specifically the Methodist Church. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0040A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-06-07 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 230 https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/fcaf895bc27558c99cf6a4ed1af31562.jpg 023087592eb0988d90c5c6693347b652 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wanda Newton Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jesse "J.L." Darnell OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 Unknown Date OHP2-0002 Jesse &quot ; J.L.&quot ; Darnell OHP2-0002 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Lectures Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jesse &quot ; J.L.&quot ; Darnell Wanda Newton MP3 1:|12(2)|23(1)|35(8)|46(9)|53(17)|65(10)|76(3)|85(1)|95(10)|107(10)|119(7)|129(6)|141(10)|155(7)|166(11)|175(11)|184(4)|196(13)|208(9)|217(16)|223(6)|230(4)|241(1)|253(13)|263(1)|271(15)|281(5)|291(3)|307(9)|316(15)|327(9)|340(3)|348(1)|360(1)|364(13)|371(13)|379(9)|389(2)|400(13)|409(1)|419(8)|429(1)|442(11)|453(3)|463(7)|480(6)|510(4)|519(12)|540(11)|561(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0021 Darnell, JL.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction, Statehood, and first Oklahoma Schools WN: -ninety-six. I’m Wanda Newton. I’m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he’s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He’s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I—it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don’t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. Discussion of the first schools in Oklahoma buggy ; Constitutional Convention ; Creek County ; Creek County Superintendent ; Jeff Burgess ; Jesse Darnell ; JL Darnell ; Oklahoma ; P.T. Frye ; Raymond Freeland ; schools ; statehood ; subscription school ; Wanda Newton schools ; statehood : https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/id/5031/ A historical map showing some of these schools (McCasland Maps, 1917) https://us-places.com/Oklahoma/Creek-County.htm A list of additional historical schools in Creek County 203 Walking to school and one room schoolhouses Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they’d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or ‘15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Small districts so children could walk to school fire ; one-room school ; school ; stove one room school 317 Board of Education and Elections They organized—you know how a board of education—as soon as the—as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected—they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn’t hold elections like we do today. They’d—they’d post five notices in the district that they’s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. Formation of board of education and holding elections board members ; board of education ; clerk ; director ; election ; member ; school board board of education ; election 417 Millage and organizing school districts All right, now. One of the things that they voted on—after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn’t—didn’t—they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that’d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn’t get but about $40 or $50 a month. Discussion of millage and the division of school districts Big Deep Fork ; Bristow ; Iron Post ; Little Deep Fork ; millage ; Mills Chapel ; school district Millage ; school districts 517 Teaching Requirements and College Certification They had to—to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days—or very few of ‘em—had college degrees. They didn’t—they didn’t go to college. So what they did, they—they sent the—the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. Discussion of early school teachers and their educational requirements college ; Frank Burgess ; Jeff Burgess ; Sapulpa ; superintendent ; teachers requirements ; school ; teachers 674 Oil Discovery and School Consolidation Let’s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days—you old timers know—that the oilfield workers worked right out in the—lived right out in the district. Discovery of oil results in population increase and school consolidiation Creek County ; Dan Baker ; Drumright ; Dry Hill ; Gypsy ; Lakeside ; Milfay ; oil ; oilfield ; oilfield camps ; Oilton ; Olive ; Slick ; Sunnyslope ; Tabor ; Welmont oil ; school 922 Ace Borger And there’s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace—now, the auditor, the guy he knew at—that audited schools—lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or ’15. The story of Ace Borger Ace Borger ; Borger Texas ; Dan Baker ; Pitcher Oklahoma ; Tom Slick Ace Borger ; Tom Slick 1043 High Schools, Boom Towns, and School Closings Here’s something that a lot of you didn’t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn’t get—well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having—organizing little high schools. Memories of high schools, boom towns, and school closing Happy Corner ; High school ; Iron Post ; Shamrock ; Valentine High School ; World War II school ; Shamrock 1196 Bristow Public Schools Let’s see. What else you might want to know about. I don’t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don’t—they’re not very good [inaudible], but it’s schools around Bristow that existed back in the ‘20s and ‘30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. The schools that comprised Bristow Public Schools Bolin ; Brick Central ; Bristow Public Schools ; Depew ; Fairview ; Fisher School ; Glendale ; Mills Chapel ; Mountain Home ; Oakgrove ; Red Bank ; Slick ; Tuskegee ; Union Hill Bristow Public Schools 1414 Division of Schools and Buses Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill—the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north—and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in ’54 or something like that, ’55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale—that’s my little school—as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. The division of schools and school buses Bellvue ; Bristow ; buses ; Central Oak Grove ; Depew ; Genelle ; Glendale ; Kellyville ; Newby School ; Pine Hill ; Victor Chapel ; Wyatt buses ; Schools 1599 People of Bristow I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I’ll show you some films on it. The first one I’m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]—his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. Memories of people in Bristow Alcorn ; Bernice ; Bristow ; Carl Sparks ; Dillard Baker ; Emmett Dykes ; Eva Sanders ; Iron Post ; Jack Dykes ; Jack Hancock ; James Lyons ; James Neighbors ; Mildred ; Mills Chapel ; R.C. Lester ; Raymond Cecil ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School Bristow 1826 Pine Hill One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named—there wasn’t—there wasn’t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. Discussion about Pine Hill School Bill Flood ; Bruce ; Buela Hope ; Carl Sparks ; Eva Smith ; Glendale ; Iron Post ; J.L. Darnell ; Lenora ; Louis Harding ; Mildred Henderson ; Mills Chapel School ; Oak Grove School ; Pine Hill ; Raymond Cecil ; Roy Bath ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School ; Wanda Henderson Pine Hill School 2302 Love Stories You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked—I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool—the only one I fooled was Lenora. J.L. tells stories of his teen years Brick Central ; Edith ; Eva Smith ; James King ; Juanita ; Lenora ; pie supper ; Thelma love stories 2718 Comments from the Crowd and Closing We’re proud you came here. It’s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your—I hope you—you’ve enjoyed it. I—if you didn’t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Comments from the crowd and closing with a prayer Charlie Womack ; Flora ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glendale ; Hard Shell Baptist ; Ledgerwood ; Marie Womack ; Mildred ; Morningstar ; Mountain Home ; Oak Grove ; Old Man Higgenbottom Darnell ; schools ; Womack WN: -ninety-six. I&#039 ; m Wanda Newton. I&#039 ; m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he&#039 ; s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He&#039 ; s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I--it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don&#039 ; t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. You know, prior to 1907, the year that Oklahoma became a state, we had no public schools. The territorial government didn&#039 ; t provide for it. If you had schools, it was a subscription school. And you--each parent had to pay to the--some teacher that wanted to, to teach the children so much a month. The only man that I know that went to subscription school was Raymond Freeland (ph). And--down in Tahlequah. Unidentified Man: You&#039 ; ll be telling how old I am, now. JL: The first legislat--the, the--when Oklahoma became a state, they had--first they had to have a Constitutional Convention. And that Constitutional Convention mandated that every county in the state of Oklahoma had school districts. And the first legislature that they--was formed in 1908--drew up the plans. The super--the process of setting up the school districts was in the hands of the county superintendent. Now, I wasn&#039 ; t county superintendent then. (laughing) But there was a fellow from Bristow that was the first county superintendent, and his name was P.T. Frye. I didn&#039 ; t know him, but I knew his daughter in Sapulpa. She worked in the abstract office, and she&#039 ; d come by to see me every once in a while. And when she was a little girl, she went with her daddy--the county superintendent--all over the county in a buggy! Because they didn&#039 ; t have any roads to speak of. And nobody had a car--any cars in that day. So he&#039 ; d--P.T. Frye began to work in 1908. And he had to make the nine-hundred-and-sixty or --seventy square miles of Creek County into school districts. And he and the second county--well he didn&#039 ; t get it all done. But he and the second county superintendent--a fellow by the name of Jeff Burgess (ph)--finished the job. And they organized Creek County into seventy-nine school districts. Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they&#039 ; d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or &#039 ; 15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Most of you don&#039 ; t know much about a one-room school. And most of these little schools that first started were one-room schools. It was a frame building, usually about twenty by forty, or eighteen by thirty-five. They had no lights in the school whatsoever. There wasn&#039 ; t even electricity out in the country. They--it was heated by a big stove in the middle or on the corner of the room with wood. It had a big hood around it so that the heat would circulate. The teacher had to get there real early and build a fire. The teacher was not only the teacher, but she was--she or he was the janitor. And the fireman, and everything. So it was quite a little task for the teacher. But everybody--we, we got enough teachers that we eventually filled up all the vacancies. They organized--you know how a board of education--as soon as the--as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected--they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn&#039 ; t hold elections like we do today. They&#039 ; d--they&#039 ; d post five notices in the district that they&#039 ; s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. And the people all gathered in, and if you wanted to run for board member, you had somebody nominate you. And then they&#039 ; d nominate as many as they wanted, and they wrote their names on the blackboard and then give everybody a little slip of paper. And they selected the man that they wanted to be on the board. The one-room schools--the teacher--where the teacher&#039 ; s desk was, was a little bit elevated so she could look over and see what the kids is doing because it was quite a job teaching fifteen or twenty or thirty kids, all eight grades. Not many of you experienced that. But maybe Dillard and me and some of you others did. All right, now. One of the things that they voted on--after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn&#039 ; t--didn&#039 ; t--they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that&#039 ; d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn&#039 ; t get but about $40 or $50 a month. And they also--when they organized the school districts, they used actual ground [indecipherable]. Creeks that flooded in the springtime--there&#039 ; s no bridges over them. And the kids couldn&#039 ; t get to school. The boundary between Bristow school district and my old school district out south of town was called Forty-Eight--old school district Forty-Eight--the boundary between us was Little Deep Fork. And the boundary between Genelle school south of--way in the south part of the county--and Mills Chapel--not Mills Chapel, but Iron Post--was Big Deep Fork. So when those things had--had a bearing on the size of the school district. They had to--to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days--or very few of &#039 ; em--had college degrees. They didn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t go to college. So what they did, they--they sent the--the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. And you didn&#039 ; t--if you--the only qualifications were that you had to have finished the eighth grade. And--or high school. You went up to the county superintendent&#039 ; s office and he conducted a class up there for six weeks and then he gave you an examination. And if you passed the examination, you were issued a one-year county certificate. If you done real good, they might give you a two-year county certificate. And then you could teach in the county for that length of time, but then you had to go back to school in the summer in the county superintendent&#039 ; s office. Or you had to go to--by that time they had the teacher&#039 ; s colleges. And of course then you had to go the teacher&#039 ; s colleges in the summertime until you worked out so many hours. If you worked out sixty hours of college work, they gave you a life certificate, and you could teach school the rest of your life without going back to school. Now you can&#039 ; t teach school unless you have four years of college. But back in the day--in those days, we had to make it easy. Now don&#039 ; t think them little--them old schoolteachers were not good. The best schoolteacher I ever saw was an old man named Frank Burgess (ph). He taught school way up in the northern part of the county at McAboy (ph). He had about twenty of them old kids in there. He--he (laughs). He&#039 ; d--he kinda had the school as a whole. He had--when he&#039 ; d teach in sixth grade arithmetic, everybody learnt sixth grade arithmetic. And them third and fourth graders could do it! Raymond remembers old Frank Burgess (ph), Frank Burgess (ph). His brother was Jeff Burgess (ph), I mentioned him while ago--he was the early county superintendent. Let&#039 ; s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days--you old timers know--that the oilfield workers worked right out in the--lived right out in the district. They, they established camps. Oilfield camps. And when that happened, the--the population increased and they had to expand these little one-room schools. And that also brought about a lot of consolidation. One of--all of you know where Gypsy school is. Well, Gypsy and--before 1920 or &#039 ; 21, there wasn&#039 ; t a Gypsy school. There wasn&#039 ; t a Milfay school. There--there wasn&#039 ; t-- Unidentified Man: Olive. JD: Olive school. And several other places. There were no--there were no schools. But when they got the oil and the population increased, then that started what we call school consolidation. In Gypsy, they had two schools out there. One was called Lincoln, north of Gypsy. The other one was Lakeside, south of Gypsy. And they merged together in 1923 or &#039 ; 24, and formed Gypsy school district. And it became a high school. And the same thing happened at Raymond&#039 ; s place. Raymond went to school--he lived at Milfay when he walked to school a mile or two to a place--to a little place called-- Unidentified Man: Sunnyslope. JD: Sunnyslope. And Sunnyslope and the other little school that-- Unidentified Man: Lily Day. JD: --next to Milfay joined together and formed Milfay, and then they became--it became a high school. Same thing happened in Olive. The same thing happened in Welmont (ph) when they discovered the No. 1 Wheeler oil well in 1912. Drumright was--had two--two or three little old grade schools around there. One was called Dry Hill, one was called Tiger, and the other one I--Lily. No, not Lily Day. I can&#039 ; t remember the name of it. But when they discovered oil there, and the people just came in with the droves, and in just a little while, well, Drumright became a high school. And the same thing happened to Oilton. It was a little old school out south where Oilton is. It was called Crow. Had one teacher. And when they discovered oil in the--in the Oilton area, the population increased and so they just established a town called Oilton. And the teacher that taught at Crow went into Oilton as a first-grade teacher. I don&#039 ; t remember her name, but she taught at Oilton, then, until she retired. And she was--she was the boss, you know, of the school because she was the oldest and (chuckles). After school, let&#039 ; s see--I wanted to make time here. Oh, Slick! You know, when they discovered--before 1918 there wasn&#039 ; t a Slick school. The school was called Tabor. It was a little two-teacher school two miles north. And the teacher at that time was a guy named Dan Baker. Dillard&#039 ; s first cousin. And he and his wife were teaching there at Tabor, and they discovered the oilfield in [inaudible]. Ten thousand people moved into Slick inside of two or three to four years. And they had the--they built a school at Slick. And there&#039 ; s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace--now, the auditor, the guy he knew at--that audited schools--lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or &#039 ; 15. And he had more money in that bank than any other bank because he let the outlaws put their money there and they didn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t have to account for it. Well, Ace Borger followed Tom Slick, and he organized the town of Slick. And helped them build the school, and everything. And then he got in trouble and they had a big lawsuit there and they run him off. And he went to Texas because they&#039 ; d just discovered a lot of oil and gas out north of Amarillo. And he organized the town--I mean, yeah--the town of Borger, Texas. And took Dan Baker out there as his superintendent. And Borger--I mean, Borger becomes a big town almost immediately. Well, anyway, old Ace Borger had a lot of enemies, and the only way they could get rid of him was to get somebody to shoot him, and they shot him on the--they shot him and killed him on the steps of the post office. And that got rid of Ace Borger! (chuckles) Here&#039 ; s something that a lot of you didn&#039 ; t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn&#039 ; t get--well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having--organizing little high schools. They had a little high school at Valentine. They had another one at Iron Post. They had another one out here at my old school district--Forty-Eight, at the end of the airport. They had one in McClintock, south of Happy Corner. But they didn&#039 ; t last long. The state department made &#039 ; em close &#039 ; em down after two or three years. But they kept the grade school. Now, let&#039 ; s see, what else have I got to talk to you about. I told you that they organized seventy-nine school districts. Back when they started consolidating, the number--it was easy to consolidate. Most people wanted to have their kids in the [inaudible] schools and [inaudible] by that time, they began to have school buses. And so that done away with a lot of little schools. And then during the World War II, a whole bunch of little schools went out because they couldn&#039 ; t find teachers. So by 19--when I became county superintendent in 1951--got the notes, here, (papers rustling) if I can find it--by 1951, there were thirty-three school districts left in Creek County. It had reduced from seventy-nine down to thirty-three. There were fourteen high schools and nineteen grade schools. And when I retired in 1975, there were ten high schools and only six elementary schools. And since that time, one elementary school--Shamrock--has gone out. Shamrock, Slick, and all them little--they were boom towns. And they just grew and flourished during the oil business, but then they folded up as soon as the oil kind of depleted. Let&#039 ; s see. What else you might want to know about. I don&#039 ; t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don&#039 ; t--they&#039 ; re not very good [inaudible], but it&#039 ; s schools around Bristow that existed back in the &#039 ; 20s and &#039 ; 30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. You all may not realize it, but Bristow is the largest school district in the county. They have--I&#039 ; ve got it written down here somewhere (papers rustling). [Inaudible] be better organized. (chuckles) Bristow school district now is made up of the following schools--little rural schools: every part of Forty-Four--district Forty-Four. That was right out north of town--is now part of Bristow. Every part of that--that was down below Newby--became a part of Bristow. My old school--Oakgrove, Glendale, and Brick Central (ph)--most of it came to Bristow, but the west part of it went to Depew. Fisher School--where old John went to school--is now part Bristow. Of course, first it went into Slick, and then when Slick went out it came to Bristow. Fairview! Where old Dillard grew up. And I guess you went to school at Fairview. Fairview? Dillard Baker: Well, I was-- JD: Fairview was--Fairview was file miles south and two miles east and then about a mile south. Lovett! Which was about six miles west of Bristow and--east of Bristow. And I--I don&#039 ; t--I&#039 ; m not sure, but I think the most important man in Lovett school that lives in Bristow today is Dub Bolin! Is that right? (laughing) Another one was Edna. You know where Edna was--it&#039 ; s now part of Bristow. Cloud just east of Slick is part of Bristow. Sand Creek eleven miles south and a mile east is, is all Bristow. Union Hill (ph), which was out near--out on the Red Bank (ph) road to the north. Mills Chapel became part of Bristow in &#039 ; 46 or &#039 ; 47. Mills Chapel was three miles south and two--two miles west. Group, simultaneously: East. East. JD: Two miles--yeah. East. Mountain Home, and [indecipherable], was back east of Bristow. Tuskegee, where the Krummes came from, is all Bristow now. And of course, as I said while ago, Slick. Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill--the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north--and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in &#039 ; 54 or something like that, &#039 ; 55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale--that&#039 ; s my little school--as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. Wyatt--Wyatt was a little high school way back in the &#039 ; 20s, and they lost out on their high school, but they kept a grade school. And about &#039 ; 46 or &#039 ; 47, they got--&#039 ; 49, it was--they got so low in attendance that they divided it up and part of it went to Slick, part of it went to Kellyville, and part of it went to Bristow. Victor Chapel--nine miles north and a mile or two west was divided between Bristow and Olive. Newby school--all of you knew where Newby school was. Newby went out about &#039 ; 60 or &#039 ; 61, and part of it--most of it went to Bristow, but a little bit of it went to Gypsy. Genelle--which was three miles east of Brist--west of Bristow on Cemetery Road and back north a mile and then back west a little bit further. It was divided between Depew and Bristow. Bellvue was northwest of Bristow, and it was split two ways. Part of it went to Olive and part of it went to Bristow. In other words, Bristow is all, or part, of twenty-some school districts. And I graduated from Bristow High School in 1931. And they had no buses whatsoever. The kids out in the rural school had to get there on their own. They--the parents usually rented a place in town and they lived in--in an apartment and went to school, and when school was out they went back to home. But I--I came back from New Mexico in 1935 and Bristow had a whole bunch of school buses. Now Bristow has fifteen or sixteen school buses because it&#039 ; s got to go to all these areas where the--where the rural schools are. I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I&#039 ; ll show you some films on it. The first one I&#039 ; m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]--his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. And Raymond got into trouble with old Shamblin (ph), the teacher, and he didn&#039 ; t like him. So his dad arranged for him to Bristow. And when Raymond got up here in Bristow, he fell in love with the prettiest little girl and she&#039 ; s here--(laughing)--she&#039 ; s here tonight [indecipherable]. Another school that I talked about while ago was Mills Chapel. And Dillard Baker is one of the important fellows that lived in Mills Chapel years and years ago. Another one was Dykes kids. All of you know Emmett Dykes and Jack Dykes and Mildred and Bernice. Bernice became a teacher and she was one of the finest. She taught many years at Iron Post. But then she met an old boy that swept her off of her feet and they went to California after he got out of the service. And both of &#039 ; em taught school out there. Let&#039 ; s see--oh, there was--there was another pretty little girl out at--at Mills Chapel. And when she got in high school she came to Bristow, and there was an old city slicker here in Bristow named James Lyons, and he just swept her off of her feet, and they married right--just before the war. (laughing) Unidentified man: She got that backwards. (laughing) JD: All of you know the Alcorns from Slick. They had a whole bunch of big old strong girls, and they had such a good girls&#039 ; team that they won every softball game they ever played. They even beat the boys down in Slick! You all know the Alcorns. Let&#039 ; s see another one here. Mountain Home out on the high--the Slick Road--I mean on the Eighth Street Road--they had a real fine school out there and the only boy that I remember that&#039 ; s here now was James Neighbors (ph). When he graduated the eighth grade he came here. Valentine--pretty little girl, what&#039 ; s her name? Eva Sanders. And old Jack Hancock pursued her and finally made her his wife. Shady Glen--which was, what? Six miles south of Depew and a mile west and then three more miles south, down on Big Deep Fork, was where Carl Sparks grew up. Now, I don&#039 ; t know where Carl found his sweetheart. (laughs) But he found himself one. I talked--I mentioned Victor Chapel School. Nine miles north on Highway 48 and then a mile and a half east--west. It was a real [indecipherable] school, and that&#039 ; s where the Lesters--R.C. Lester--he went. And her--[indecipherable]. They went to grade school and when they got through they came to Bristow High School. One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named--there wasn&#039 ; t--there wasn&#039 ; t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. And it was named after him. And there&#039 ; s a whole bunch of people out there named Bruce. And they all went to school at Pine Hill--even there, my sister-in-law went to school at Pine Hill. But the most important person in Pine Hill graduated out there in 1940--no, in &#039 ; 37. And she lived--she had to walk a mile to catch the bus up through the woods. And she--for four years she walked up there and caught the bus, rain and shine, and she&#039 ; s right [inaudible--poor tape quality]. [Inaduible--poor tape quality] I&#039 ; m running out of time here, I don&#039 ; t want to [inaudible]. I know you want to see some of these pictures. So at this time I&#039 ; m gonna try to put &#039 ; em through this machine and [inaudible--poor tape quality]. I&#039 ; ll talk a little bit as they come right through. Flip the light off, preacher. That&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s the front--that&#039 ; s the front door of Genelle school. Raymond Cecil [indecipherable]--I&#039 ; ll pass them around if you want to look at &#039 ; em. Let&#039 ; s see here. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: That&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Mills Chapel School. And the teacherage. That&#039 ; s the biggest picture we could find--Majel had that and gave it to us so we could show it to you. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: [inaudible] That&#039 ; s-- Unidentified Man: Iron Post! JD: Victor Chapel School. Off to the left--in the middle row, you can&#039 ; t see it very good. Right behind is--is Lenora. She went there one year. Now you all--you probably know the teacher. Her name was Buela Hope. And she married a guy named--out in there named Earl--I mean, Roy Bath. And they were the ones that were murdered about 1974 or &#039 ; 75. They never found who--who murdered them. Now that&#039 ; s a picture of Louis Harding&#039 ; s school. You can&#039 ; t tell, but he&#039 ; s right down there on the front row. And that&#039 ; s Iron Post. And Louis thought it was about 1930 or &#039 ; 35, I don&#039 ; t know. But--but anyway, that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Iron Post. Now there&#039 ; s a picture where Lenora and me went to school. That&#039 ; s Pine Hill. And there&#039 ; s a bunch of kids out in the yard, but I--it&#039 ; s not plain enough that you can see who they are. Pine Hill. Now, let&#039 ; s see. Now that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s where Carl Sparks came from. Shady Glen. The one farthest south, just north of Big Deep Fork and south of Salt Creek. And I--Carl&#039 ; s in there somewhere but I don&#039 ; t--I couldn&#039 ; t--I couldn&#039 ; t recognize him. But I appreciate you bringing the picture, Carl, so we could see it. Shady Glen became part of Gypsy, and then later they--it became part of Milfay. They switched around. Now, that&#039 ; s old Glendale school. File miles west and a mile south on the Gypsy Road. And that little bitty guy in the middle on the front row happens to be old J.L. Darnell. (laughing) And right behind him is his first sweetheart--Eva Smith. And you probably wouldn&#039 ; t--my brother&#039 ; s over on the left side and you wouldn&#039 ; t recognize him. But Glendale was a nice school and it became--it really grew during the--during the oil boom. Now that--that&#039 ; s Oak Grove School in 1939. That was the second year I taught. That&#039 ; s me on the left there, and that&#039 ; s all my kids. In that is a little girl named Wanda Henderson. I had her in the third through the seventh grade. But one--but--Glen--I mean, Oak Grove School was a very good school through the years. Lyman Hutchins--Raymond&#039 ; s dad--went there, and Lyman--Raymond told me that he--his dad got seven whippings in one day. The most important person, though, in old--old Glend--old Oak Grove School was a gal that Bill Flood really fell for. And she&#039 ; s here tonight, and Bill is proud of her, I&#039 ; m sure, and she&#039 ; s proud of Bill. Her name was Mildred Henderson. So that&#039 ; s Bill&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Bill&#039 ; s sweetheart. I think that&#039 ; s about all the pictures we have. Turn the--turn the light on, now. (rustling) Unidentified woman: Did you want to show this one right here? JD: [Inaudible in background.] You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked--I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool--the only one I fooled was Lenora. But when I went to school at Glendale--started there in 1919. My classmate was Eva Smith. And I drew her name at Christmas. You know, we drew names and exchanged gifts. And I drew Eva&#039 ; s name and I had to buy her something. Well, my mother helped me out. In those days, you bought flour in a twenty-five-, fifty-pound sack. And it had a design on it. Well, this one had a design of a, of a--of a little old red--I mean, red dots. And my mother cut that out, 1919--Christmas of 1919, and stuffed it, and I put it on the tree for Eva Smith. And she was just tickled to death. Now, how did I get it back? Well, Eva in the mean time went to Sapulpa, and she became principal of a big school out there, even though she had taught a lot in just little country schools. And one day she called Lenora and said, Lenora--this is forty years later--she called Lenora and said, Lenora, you and J.L. and your oldest daughter--I don&#039 ; t know whether Marie--might not have been born, I guess she was. But said, Come over, I want to give Ed--Edith something. And we went over there and Edna said, I want to give this to your oldest daughter. So I&#039 ; m gonna pass it around, you might want to look at it. (laughs) Two other loves stories. We left old Glendale in 1923 and went to California and stayed a little while and came back and I made the fourth and part of the fifth grade in Bristow. And then in January of 1925, we moved back to Glendale. I was only twelve years old, and I was in the fifth grade, but there was the cutest little old girl that had moved in. Her daddy was an oilfield worker. And she had little pretty blonde hair, pretty little old doll face, and freckles. And we became sweethearts. We played together at recess--Black Man (ph). Well one--she lived west of school and I lived east of school. And so one afternoon, after four o&#039 ; clock, she started going our way when she should&#039 ; ve gone the other way. And I said--her name was Juanita. And I said, Juanita, what are you doing going this way? She said, I want to go home and stay all night with ya. (laughing) (crowd laughing) Well, that took me--I didn&#039 ; t know what to say to her! It was just three of us old boys, my dad and mother, we just had two bedrooms. Me and my three brothers all slept togeth--I said, What in the world would we do with her? And I begin to try to figure out some way to get her to change her mind. I said, Juanita, does your dad and mother know that you&#039 ; re gonna go home and stay all night with me? She said, Nooo, I didn&#039 ; t tell &#039 ; em! And I said, Well, you better go home and get permission first! (laughing) Well, she went home and--and--I--she never did come back and stay all night with me. (laughing) One more love story and then we&#039 ; ll be gone. I--I went to New Mexico in 1929. And stayed out there for two or three years. I came back to Bristow to finish high school. Well, one--either in &#039 ; 29 or &#039 ; 30, I went back out to old Brick Central (ph)--you know, we had a pie supper every year. And I went into this--to see my old friend. And boy, there was the prettiest little girl there. She was about fourteen--I was fifteen or sixteen. And she was fourteen. Well, I&#039 ; d known her when she was a little bitty old thing, three or four years before. But boy, she sure looked good to me that night! She had filled out. So I got to--in those days, if you bought their pie, you got to walk &#039 ; em home. So I said, Well, I&#039 ; m gonna see to it that I get to walk her home. So I--her name was Thelma. I said, Thelma, did you bring a box, or a pie? And she said, Yeah. And she said, Now if you&#039 ; ll watch me, I&#039 ; ll tell you when the auctioneer brings it up. Well, she nodded--she gave me the nod, and I bought it. And I gave seventy-five cents for it--which was quite a bit of money, you known, down in the Depression. Boy, I said, I&#039 ; ve got it all made now, I get to eat and then I&#039 ; m&#039 ; a get to walk her home, and put my arm around her, to hold her hand. But I found out before the thing was over that she had another admirer there in school. And his name was James King. And he came to me, and he said, James--J.L., did you buy Thelma&#039 ; s pie? And I said, Yeah. He said, I&#039 ; ll give you your money back. I said, Nooo----I don&#039 ; t want that money back. He said, I&#039 ; ll give you a dollar! Nooo. Finally, he said, I&#039 ; ll give you a dollar and a half, and boy, listen--that got me. I--(laughs) I--he gave me a dollar and a half and I gave him the ticket. And at the end of the pie supper, he went up and got her pie--got her box, and brought it back to where she was, and she got so mad, she wouldn&#039 ; t eat with him! And she wouldn&#039 ; t speak to me! And I didn&#039 ; t get to walk her home. So--so I found out that--that romance and profit-making don&#039 ; t always go together. (laughs) We&#039 ; re proud you came here. It&#039 ; s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your--I hope you--you&#039 ; ve enjoyed it. I--if you didn&#039 ; t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Unidentified woman: It was very good. Unidentified man: I had a comment about that pie supper-- (applause) Unidentified man: --about that pie supper-- JD: It&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s early--I mean late. And I might just say this: one of the--one of the results of mine and Lenora&#039 ; s getting married is that little girl that&#039 ; s sitting way back there on the--black-headed, and that&#039 ; s her husband there, Charlie, Charlie Womack. Unidentified woman: [Inaudible] JD: If there&#039 ; s no other comments-- Unidentified man: J.L.-- JD: Raymond--I mean-- Unidentified man: That pie supper is where I met this gal. JD: Well! (laughs) Unidentified man: I bought her pie and she introduced me to her fiancé. JD: Ohh! (laughs) Unidentified man: And he--and I think he&#039 ; s that same old guy that advertised for Braum&#039 ; s, you know--Vic (ph), or whatever his name was. What was his name? JD: (laughs) Unidentified man: Anyhow, I--I&#039 ; ve been eating her sandwiches ever since. And one school we forgot to mention, he did that&#039 ; s--back in eastern Oklahoma, if you came from that part of the country, they always kidded you if you came from Scratchout--was the name of the school! We got a gal in here from Scratchout. I&#039 ; m not gonna tell you who she is, but--she can talk Indian if you want to talk to her. John&#039 ; s wife. JD: Let me make one other observation, here, before you leave. After all, we ought to be--this is a church, and we should be--what I should be--is sayin&#039 ; something that would build up the churches. In my old school, Glendale, and Mildred&#039 ; s and Flora&#039 ; s old school, Oak Grove, they are the forerunners of the Free--of the Freewill Baptist Church. Way back in 1921 or &#039 ; 22 we had a preacher who lived across the road named Sam Wall. And he--he had church every day at Glendale. And the song leader was Old Man Higgenbottom. H.A. Had one eye, if you remember. And he was a good one. And they had church there. And they were Freewill Baptists--only I think they called them Hard Shell (ph) Baptist back in those days. Now in--in Glendale--I mean in Oak Grove, we had another Baptist preacher. His name was Ledgerwood. And he was--he and old Sam Wall were the forerunners of the Freewill Baptist. Later they moved to Bristow and you know where the Freewill--that&#039 ; s where they are, and here&#039 ; s where all of &#039 ; em go to school. Any other comments before you go home? Jack! Unidentified man: J.L., did you say anything about Model on 16? You ever go down there? JD: Yeah. Unidentified man: East about three miles, wasn&#039 ; t it, then north about a quarter of a mile? JD: Yeah. Well, Model-- Unidentified man: Mountain. JD: Mountain Home--Mountain Home and Model were in the same school district. When they got a lot of oil out there, they didn&#039 ; t--they couldn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t have enough. And that&#039 ; s where you met your wife, wasn&#039 ; t it? Unidentified woman: [Inaudible.] Unidentified man: I don&#039 ; t know if you remember or not, but we had quite a few black schools. Iron Post was on one corner, and a mile west was another school--Morningstar or something like that was the name of it--and by gosh, they had twice as many kids over in that black school as we did [indecipherable]. And--but anyway, I remember bunch of little schools that some of us have forgotten about. Seven miles south at the Iron Post sign, right there on the corner you&#039 ; ll see--still see the water well that&#039 ; s the old-- JD: Maybe the next time I get to talk, maybe I&#039 ; ll talk to you about the colored schools. Well I had the one that was the awfulest one. We done away with it! You might not want to hear about that. (laughing) (crowd discussion) JD: If there&#039 ; s no other comments, let&#039 ; s stand up and [inaudible]. Unidentified man: Let us pray. Lord, dismiss us with your blessing that we may go forth and do your work. Be with each one here and their families and bless them in their lives to serve thee. In Christ our Lord. Crowd: Amen. [end of recording] 1 audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 2800 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesse "J.L." Darnell Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP2-0002 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/aa5c46eb8fd33a265aecbf72042bf09a.jpg 6b5542de9c0f8e69f66a2f81f92dd47a Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Georgia Smith Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jim Hurt OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 June 30, 2021 OHP-2021-16 Jim Hurt OHP-2021-16 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jim Hurt Georgia Smith 1:|65(7)|128(9)|158(6)|215(5)|236(12)|252(1)|288(3)|334(2)|347(16)|385(15)|441(2)|466(6)|521(5)|581(1)|621(7)|658(10)|679(5)|721(2)|767(3)|801(1)|859(2)|927(10)|973(11)|999(12)|1019(14)|1055(10)|1083(4)|1113(2)|1169(8)|1217(2)|1249(7)|1285(2)|1328(12)|1370(12)|1400(9)|1455(9)|1496(3)|1535(2)|1577(12)|1608(2)|1637(14)|1658(12)|1690(6)|1748(11)|1798(10)|1841(3)|1895(2)|1928(6)|1984(2)|2027(5)|2063(12)|2090(18)|2115(3)|2127(14)|2146(10)|2181(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-16 Hurt, Jim.mp3.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I’m sitting here with Jim Hurst and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. Amy Hannah Higginbotham ; Brian Kelly Hurt ; Bruce Allen Hurt ; Deep Rock Oil Camp ; Gerald Guy Henshaw ; H.A Hugginbotham ; Jimmy Allen Hurt ; Joe Stiner ; Lovett School ; Mr. Medows ; O.D Thorpes Grocery Store ; Patricia Marie Hurt ; Poor Farm ; Route 66 ; Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/185143745/amy-h-hurst Amy H. Higginbotham Hurst https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157923094/norma-lee-wieberdink Norma Lee Hurt Weiberdink 253 Early Childhood GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old— GS: Oh. JH: —and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother’s dad and his— my grandmother lived across the road. Lovett school ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery Store O.D. Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277637/o-d-thorpe 561 Peanut Factory GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut— JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. Bill Bethel ; Peanut Capitol ; Peanut Capitol of the World ; peanut mill ; Peanuts 651 Early School Life GS: That’s— that’s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole— the tornado thing is still there, but the building— there’s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry — GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry— castle store ; Edison ; Edison school ; football ; grade school ; Jerry Riley ; Lovett ; Mr. Castle ; Mrs. Bean ; Mrs. Cake ; Mrs. Farbro ; Mrs. Liss ; Norma Lee ; Red Rover ; school ; second grade ; Washington ; Washington playground Jerry Garland Riley https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112945715/jerry-garland-riley Bill Bethel https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/31876265/bill-bethel 940 Church life GS: Okay. Okay, I’m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about— I’m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the— well what day and what time did you believe— well I’ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that’s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And— right down— well it’s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson’s (ph), and Dobson’s and on and on and on and so Assembly of God ; Baptized ; Christmas ; church life ; Deep Fork ; Depew ; Dobson ; Faith Bible Church ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glenn Acres ; Highway 66 ; holiday events ; Kelly's Pond ; Lawton, Oklahoma ; Lovett ; Lucille Lott ; Meadow Hill ; Merdel Henry ; Pie Suppers ; Tulsa 1203 Medical Care GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors— JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don’t know if you knew who Doc king was. He— GS: I went to Doc King— black powder ; dentist ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Dr. Yourman ; medical care https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25205437/martin-alfred-yourman Martin Alfred Yourman 1294 Deep Rock Oil Camp GS: Let me, you’ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that’s just right across the road. You know, they— GH: From the cemetery. Deep Rock Camp ; Oil Camp ; Poor Farm Cemetery 1370 Childhood memories GS: Yeah. Okay, and you’ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn’t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don’t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you’re out and it’s hot and there’s a pool— a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn’t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can’t do anything about it. So— California ; Catfish Creek ; colored man ; Earl Hill ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; Lester Hill ; Pat Dillard ; race 1573 Local Businesses and Bootlegging GS: You’re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you’ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. bootlegging ; Cash Junk Store ; Cash's Junk Store ; Cox Bakery ; Dale Donuts ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; grocery store ; Jim Cox ; Lebanese immigrant ; McSude ; O.D butcher ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery ; Pawn Shop ; prohibition ; Thorpe Grocery ; White Lightening https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277645/t-oneyta-thorpe Oneyta Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228193107/sonja-sue-starkey Sonja Sue Thorpe Starkey 2059 Ice Plant GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that’s this boys— GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was— back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they’d have three cool storage ; cooler vats ; Hustlee ; ice plant 2201 High School Years GS: Alright well let’s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren’t good enough but we got tired of that cause’ he wouldn’t ever let us play basketball ; Christmas time ; Curt Thompson ; Earl Hill ; extracurricular activities ; football ; high school ; High school shenanigans ; Jolie Craig ; water balloons ; watermelons ; wrestling 2439 Bristow Natives GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn’t see this backside here. Okay, I think I’ve got that one. You’ve got down here “Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)” JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they’re older. There’s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He’s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those Alcorns ; Bigpond Corner ; Bigponds ; coin purse ; first grade ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Gastons ; Indian purse ; Jerry Riley ; Joe Allen ; Mardel Henry ; Oil Business ; Paynes ; Tigers 2711 High School Activities GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don’t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you— were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh? 39' Ford ; Caroline Foster ; Claremore ; drive main street ; High school ; main street ; Mr. Bow ; Mrs. Foster ; Oscar Meyer ; Youth group 3005 Adult Life and Closing Thoughts GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in ‘54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn’t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and college ; military ; pandemic ; Rossland, New Mexico ; ROTC ; SH Crest Variety Store ; shots ; sin nature ; Stillwater, Oklahoma ; SunRay DX Oil Company ; Texas ; Tulsa, Oklahoma ; Union Calif In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Jim Hurt (JH) Other Persons: Gerald Henshaw (GH) Date of Interview: June 30th 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.&#039 ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones &amp ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society&#039 ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I&#039 ; m sitting here with Jim Hurt and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. GS: Thank you. We&#039 ; re going to begin mainly with Jim, but Gerald might chime in occasionally if he has something to add to the information that we&#039 ; re doing. So Jim, what was your name at birth? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: And where were you born? JH: Two miles east-- or west of Bristow. Just south of the Deep Rock Oil Camp there at-- near where the old farm used to be. GS: And what old farm is that? JH: Poor Farm. GS: Your-- JH: Poor Farm. GH: Poor Farm JH: The Old Poor Farm GS: Okay. JH: Out by the cemetery-- GS: Yeah. JH: Poor Cemetery out on 66. GS: Yes. JH: My dad used to keep-- keep that up. GS: Oh he did? JH: Yeah. GS: How long ago was that? JH: Oh it was probably when I was in high school. GS: Okay so in the early 50&#039 ; s? JH: 50&#039 ; s, yes. Yeah. GS: That&#039 ; s-- that&#039 ; s interesting. Were you born in the home or in the hospital? JH: In the house. GS: In the house? Was it a midwife or doctor? Do you know? JH: I do not know. GS: Have no idea. What were your parent&#039 ; s names? Oh, let me back up. What day were you born? JH: October the 4th 1934. GS: Thank you. And what were your parents&#039 ; names? Let&#039 ; s start with your mother&#039 ; s maiden name. JH: Amy Hannah Higginbotham. GS: Okay (Chuckling). JH: Evert Hurt. H-U-R-T. GS: Okay, and thank you for spelling that. Do you happen to know about when they were married? JH: No. GS: That&#039 ; s okay. Or where they were married? Were they living here? JH: I don&#039 ; t know. GS: Have no idea. Do you know when they might have come to this area? JH: Well, my grandpa Higginbotham brought his whole family here in-- from Kentucky and because he had a sister that married Mr. Meadows (ph) that lived out south of town so that&#039 ; s why he came here. Because she said, &quot ; Come here Andy. You need to come here and get rich in the white cotton fields of Oklahoma.&quot ; GS: Oh. JH: And he did come, but he didn&#039 ; t get rich, but-- GS: Ah. JH: --he did lose an eye. Was farming with the corn when a corn stock hit &#039 ; em in the eye and he was blind in one eye. H.A. Higginbotham. GS: H.A. Higg-- and it&#039 ; s Higginbotham, could you spell that? JH: H-i-g-g-i-n-b-o-t-h-a-m. GS: Thank you very much. I&#039 ; m glad you ask it, &#039 ; cause I would&#039 ; ve spelled it differently. (Laughter) GS: Alright, how many children did your parents have? JH: Oh, I don&#039 ; t know. (Chuckling) Eight or nine? I don&#039 ; t ever-- GS: Okay. Are your-- are your siblings, and of them still here? JH: No. GS: Okay. What did your father do? JH: He was a tank builder with Deep Rock Oil Company. GS: Okay. Do you happen to know who owned Deep Rock Oil Company back then? JH: No. GS: Yeah, that&#039 ; s okay. JH: Mm-hmm. GS: And what about your mother, was she a stay at home mom? JH: Yes. GS: Very good. Are you married, Jim. JH: No, I&#039 ; m single. GS: Okay. Have you been married? JH: Yes. GS: What was your spouse&#039 ; s name? JH: My children&#039 ; s mothers name was Patricia Marie Hurt, or Jackson from Depew, Oklahoma where Gerald went to find his wife also. GS: Oh cool! JH: And some of us got-- GH: Prettiest girls in the country. GS: Prettiest girls in the country. Well my parents were from there, so I won&#039 ; t disagree. (Laughter) JH: Who was the other guy that friend of yours that lived out there? GH: Stiner. JH: Oh (Chuckling) Joe Stiner. GH: Joe Stiner. Yeah, he married a Depew girl. GS: Well. (Laughter) GS: And how many children did you have? JH: I have three. GS: Three children. What are their names? JH: Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls (ph) and Bruce Allen Hurt (ph), and Brian Kelly Hurt, (ph). GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old-- GS: Oh. JH: --and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother&#039 ; s dad and his-- my grandmother lived across the road. And so he cut the wood, chopped the wood for us to do and he plowed-- made and raised the corn and fixed our garden and so forth some. So he was the help there, but I have many memories of living there. And then I started school there at Lovett (ph) School and they-- a two room school house for first through the eighth grades and we lived there until 1942 when the World War II started. The oldest brother Jack went to the army. My sister, Norma was named Wieberdink, now is deceased, but she quit school and went to work in Tulsa and so it just left me and mom and the three older brothers and the middle brother, Harry who we call Buddy died of-- his appendix burst and had Gangrene and died at the age of fifteen-- GS: Aww. JH: --which is pretty hard on mom. GS: Well yes. JH: So that-- then that left Donnie, older brother just older than me, and myself and then Don was killed in Korea in 1952, so it was just me and mom and I worked. You talked-- asked what my childhood life was like. I worked at O.D Thorpe&#039 ; s Grocery Store. I delivered groceries for him. GS: Alright. JH: And so-- but she made twenty-five dollars a week and she walked to-- to work every day and back home every day. And then-- GS: And what is it she did again? JH: She was a clerk at O.D. Thorpe&#039 ; s grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: And one of the guys that worked there also said she was strong as any man he had ever seen. So-- GS: Wow. JH: --I had no trouble with discipline. I knew how to behave and how she took care of things. But she was a very strong spiritually, mentally, and physically woman and all. So I had a great life. I&#039 ; ve been blessed. GS: So when she left your father, you went with your mother? JH: Oh yes-- GS: Yes. JH: --all five. All five of us did. GS: All five of you did. JH: Yeah. GS: Okay. Okay, I was a little confused on that part. JH. K. GS: Did you have-- did each of the kids have a bedroom? Did you have to share bedrooms growing up? JH: Well like I said, about the time I was eight, we did until then. And I don&#039 ; t remember a whole lot about that-- before that-- but after that it was just mom and I. So-- GS: Yeah. JH: When we were out in the country, I don&#039 ; t remember that much. GS: So were you the youngest? JH: Yes, I was the baby as they call it. GS: Aww, he was the baby. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Was your mom a good cook? JH: Oh. No she didn&#039 ; t cook. She fried everything. Steaks she fried-- (Laughter) JH: Whatever it was, we fried. And yes, she was a good enough cook and all that, but yeah. GS: Alright. (Laughter) GS: Where did she shop for groceries? JH: At O.D. Thorpe&#039 ; s. Where she-- GS: At O.D. Thorpe&#039 ; s. (Laughter) JH: Yes. GS: What all did O.D. Thorpe&#039 ; s sell? JH: Everything. He had-- he bought the wholesale was-- I forget the wholesalers name here but we-- we had their own shelves. And O.D. was his own butcher. He had his own butchers back in the back and then everything was mostly on credit, and you&#039 ; d just come in and bought and he wrote it down on the ticket and whatever they bought you put that in a file. Then at the end of the month when the people got their poor checks, or people got money, they come in and pay off that bill and everything. But it&#039 ; s the same old thing with the green beans and corn and whatever and you had pop in the icebox that you raised up the lid and there was water in there with ice in it and you got your bottle of pop out and you drank your bottle of pop. But memories of the grocery store, people used to come and even sit on the ledge out beside there on Saturdays and whatever. And there&#039 ; s some things, I won&#039 ; t tell you about all that went on when people got drunk-- GS: Oh yeah. GH: (Chuckling) JH: Somebody would get drunk and the police would come get &#039 ; em and put &#039 ; em-- wouldn&#039 ; t want to get in the car, and they&#039 ; d kind of push &#039 ; em in the car and they&#039 ; d hold on like this and they&#039 ; d throw-- just slam the door on its fingers. GS: Oh my word. JH: Lets don&#039 ; t go through all that. My memories-- GH: I don&#039 ; t know-- (Laughter) GS: Talk about police brutality, huh? (Laughter) GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut-- JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And one day several of us boys-- four or five of us young guys, they took us in the back of a truck and took us down there and they&#039 ; d already plowed up the peanuts and they were laying over and dried in the sun. And then they had poles that they had cut down trees and trimmed it off and stuck the poles upright in the ground, and we would then go by and pick up those peanuts that were laying there that were drying and we&#039 ; d go and stick &#039 ; em-- stack &#039 ; em around that pole and where they would dry more and more until they were ready to take &#039 ; em into the peanut mill and have &#039 ; em harvested or-- GS: Okay. JH: --so forth. GS: And where was that peanut mill? JH: That&#039 ; s Second-- GS: Between Second-- JH: --Second GS: --and Third. JH: No, well it was actually at the corner of Second and-- or no, Third and Main. GH: Fourth, third, yeah. GS: Yes. Yes. JH: Second-- GS: Third and Main. GH: Third and Main. JH: That&#039 ; s the one that Bill Bethel bought later on. Right. GS: Okay. JH: But then the woman sat at it and they had the big belt where the peanuts come down through there and they would pick out the little rocks and things like that and all. And then after they were shelled and running down through there. So, yeah-- GS: Okay. JH: --It employed several women and for many years. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah. GS: I didn&#039 ; t realize that women worked in the peanut factory. (Laughter) GS: That&#039 ; s-- that&#039 ; s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole-- the tornado thing is still there, but the building-- there&#039 ; s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry-- GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry-- JH: Riley. GH: Riley. GS: Oh! I knew Jerry Riley. GH: Yeah. JH: He was my very first friend and he was a year behind me so whenever I went to the first grade, and then I got to the second grade and then he come to first grade, so I think there was two teachers. One through sixth or something, then seven through eighth in the other room. But when we&#039 ; d go out to exercise and all I&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Well ask &#039 ; em if I can go with ya.&quot ; I was in second grade, so they did. So then come December of my second grade we was ready to move to town after I said my brother had went to the army. To the war and Norma Lee had went, my sister had gone to Tulsa, so we moved to town and they told Amy, &quot ; You better put Jimmy back in the first grade&quot ; So I&#039 ; ve lost a year. GS: Aww. JH: But my birthday is in October the 4th and that year that I&#039 ; d started, you had to be six on or before the day it started. So I was-- so I was two years behind school. That&#039 ; s why Gerald was only seventeen and I was almost nineteen by the time I graduated. (Laughter) GH: They put me in before I got-- my birthday&#039 ; s October the 11th and my sister brought me up and put me in Edison School before I was supposed to because I was the only boy left at the house. JH: You didn&#039 ; t-- may I interject? He didn&#039 ; t have a mother, she had passed. GH: Yeah, my mother passed. GS: Aww. GH: Yeah. JH: He was raised-- GS: So you were raised by your sister? GH: Sister and dad. JH: A whole bunch of &#039 ; em. GH: Yeah. (Laughter) GH: Had four sisters, yeah. GS: Oh. GH: Twins and younger and older. GS: Okay. GH: Older, Oldest sister pretty well looked after us. You know as far as-- GS: Very good. Yeah. JH: But anyway, go ahead. GH: Where was I? JH: (Laughter) GH: Oh I was telling you about Edison school. My first-- they took me and I was so young, I guess. I cried the whole day. (Laughter) GH: And Mrs. Liss (ph) which was the teacher-- GS: Yes. GH: --she took me under her arm and kinda took care of me for that day. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Aww. GH: And the next day I was fine, and everything went on-- GS: Well sure. You were probably only four or five. (Laughter) GH: Well I was five. GS: That&#039 ; s pretty young. GH: Coming in off the farm, you know-- GS: Yeah. GH: --by yourself out there. GS: Sure. GH: Got all these people running around there. Man it was-- it was scary. GS: I bet it was for a little guy. GH: It was scary. I still remember it, that&#039 ; s how scary it was. (Laughter) GS: So, when you went to grade school here in Bristow, was it one of Washington or Edison-- JH: Edison. I went to Edison-- GS: Edison. JH: --Mrs. Farbro (ph) was one of my first teachers and all and she was pretty tough on ya. She kept things straight and all-- GS: Alright. JH: --yeah. GH: I went to both of &#039 ; em, Washington and Edison. GS: Okay. Okay. GH: I remember the castle-- little castle store down there at the end of the Washington playground. GS: Uh-huh. GH: We&#039 ; d go down there and get lunch. GS: Oh okay. JH: (Laughter) GS: Did they not have the cafeteria then? GH: I don&#039 ; t know man-- JH: I think you brought lunch if-- GH: Well we brought lunch if you could, but-- GS: Yeah. GH: You could go down there and buy a soda pop from Mr. Castle. JH: (Laughter) GS: Okay, so after you finished grade-- do you have any memories of grade school? Were you active in any kind of-- JH: No-- GS: --activities? JH: --one memory I had, the Cakes (ph) were teachers there. And Mrs. Cake (ph) but then there is another teacher, Mrs. Bean (ph) that couldn&#039 ; t hear very well and all. So one of the guys brought a-- in the sixth grade brought a water pistol and he was shooting it like that and hiding it and you know, it&#039 ; s on the black board when it hit, [indecipherable] and she&#039 ; d turn around and do like this and turn like this and try to figure out who was doing it. GS: Oh! JH: That&#039 ; s one of the memories, other than that no. It&#039 ; s just school and on the playground where you&#039 ; d learn how to-- GH: Survive. JH: --defend yourself or whatever. GS: What kind of games did you play on the playground? JH: Well the boys played football against the-- GH: We played-- we played that &quot ; Red Rover, Red Rover-- GS: Yes! GH: &quot ; Let somebody come over.&quot ; Yeah! GS: Yes! JH: Oh! (Chuckling) I forgot about that. (Laughter) GH: Oh I&#039 ; ll tell ya, they try to break the-- break the deal. Yeah. GS: Yep (Chuckling) and it really hurt when you couldn&#039 ; t break through. GH: Oh it hit you hard, yes. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Okay, I&#039 ; m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about-- I&#039 ; m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the-- well what day and what time did you believe-- well I&#039 ; ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that&#039 ; s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And-- right down-- well it&#039 ; s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson&#039 ; s (ph), and Dobson&#039 ; s and on and on and on and so I&#039 ; ve always been a Christian. So-- and I was raised at Freewill Baptist Church and I grew up and become a Southern Baptist and finally I got even grown up more than that and now I&#039 ; m just a Christian going into an independent church and have a great church life in Edmond, Oklahoma. Faith Bible Church. GS: Very good. Very Good! (Laughter) GS: Get a plug in for Faith Bible Church there. (Laughter) When were you baptized? Can you tell me, were you baptized in a pond-- JH: When I was about in the-- GS: --a river? JH: No, I was in First Baptist Church of Lawton, Oklahoma when I was in the military there and I was kind of convicted. In fact, when I finally decided before that I was married and living in Tulsa after I got out of high school. And I was a smoker and I decided that I wanted to live for Christ and all, so on a Sunday morning we&#039 ; re sitting there and reading the newspaper before we went to church and all and I said, &quot ; Did you notice anything, Pat?&quot ; And she said, &quot ; Well no. What?&quot ; I said, &quot ; Well I quit smoking!&quot ; Well she didn&#039 ; t know it. (Laughter) JH: I thought that was gonna make me alright, but I-- I&#039 ; ve grown a lot in the Lord since then-- GS: Right. JH: --and all. And had a great life. GS: Discovered you didn&#039 ; t have to quit that smoking to become a Christian. JH: (Chuckling) No, but I did. GS: (Chuckling) Probably the best. JH: Yeah. GS: So it says here you were baptized at Kelly&#039 ; s Pond (ph)? JH: No not me-- GS: No. Oh. JH: That&#039 ; s where Freewill Baptist-- that&#039 ; s where-- that&#039 ; s [Indecipherable]-- right there&#039 ; s the pond. Right out there. Do you know where Kelly&#039 ; s Pond (ph) is? GS: I do not unless-- wait a minute. West of Bristow on Highway 66? JH: Do you know where the green-- meadow green-- what&#039 ; s it called? GS: Meadow Hill JH: Meadow Hill is? GS: Mm-hmm. JH: Well just past there. You go up like that and there&#039 ; s a pond right off over there. There&#039 ; s another-- GS: Glenn Acres. Glenn Acres is what you&#039 ; re thinking of. JH: Okay, so past the-- GS: My mother was baptized in that same pond. JH: You&#039 ; re kidding me! What church did she go to? GS: I think it was Assembly of God at the time in Depew. JH: Really? GS: Uh-huh. And I did not learn that until recently. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Yeah, after she passed. GH: Right across the street from that, there was a pool hall-- not a pool hall, but a joint. GS: Oh. GH: On the south side of that. GS: Yes, now when I was growing up it was like a little café. GH: Yeah, same. GS: I think I ate there once. JH: Gerald Lee and I use to take our girlfriends back over to Depew and then comin&#039 ; home we&#039 ; d-- GH: Yeah. JH: --stop and get a hamburger. She&#039 ; d find out later, &quot ; Why can&#039 ; t you stop and get a hamburger taking us home?&quot ; (Laughter) GS: Yeah! I agree. I agree! Savin&#039 ; a little bit money, weren&#039 ; t you there? (Laughter) GS: Well alright, can you tell me anything about holiday events at the church or any special memories you have at the church? JH: Christmas time especially, you always had your little chocolate thing with this white sugar inside of it, and all. And we also had coconut that they give us. Coconut-- GS: Coconuts? JH: --and things that-- your little Christmas things at Christmas time that I don&#039 ; t think they do that stuff anymore. But yeah, Christmas-- GS: Like a bag of apples-- JH: And also-- GS: --and oranges and-- GH: Ribbon candy. GS: Yes, ribbon candy. JH: And more funnier-- fun than that, was Pie Suppers. GS: Yes. JH: We had the Pie Supper at the Lovett (ph) School and one of the girls that was probably fourteen or so [Indecipherable] with my grandpa who was quite, you know. He was old. He was probably in his sixties-- bought her pie and she had to eat with him. And I remember how it hurt her feelings, she had to eat with this old man. GS: (Laughter) JH: That was at the Lovett (ph) Schoolhouse and all. And Merdel Henry (ph) and-- Merdel Henry and Lucille Lott (ph) was the first girls that I kind of liked out there and-- GS: Aww. JH: --there&#039 ; s memories of those things. GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors-- JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don&#039 ; t know if you knew who Doc king was. He-- GS: I went to Doc King-- GH: Oh man I-- GS: A time or two. JH: Oh you must be old! Or mature. GS: I&#039 ; m getting there! GH: Yeah, he was pretty tough. And then-- GS: He was-- GH: The dentist-- I can&#039 ; t remember his name-- GS: Your-- Yourman ? GH: Yourman. GS: Dr. Yourman. GH: That guy, he pulled my teeth. Pulled my wisdom teeth. That&#039 ; s the reason I&#039 ; m so dumb. GS: (Laughter). GH: He pulled those wisdom teeth and he got up on my chest-- GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And-- and-- oh yeah. And pulled &#039 ; em. There wasn&#039 ; t anything wrong with &#039 ; em. He just pulled &#039 ; em out. Pulled all of &#039 ; em out of there. JH: He needed the money. GH: Yeah, I guess. (Laughter) GH: Couldn&#039 ; t have got much money at that time. You know, but-- yeah. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: Last time I seen ole Doc King, he was going down middle of Main Street and everybody was getting out of his way. GS: Oh. GH: I think he had a Cadillac or-- JH: No, it was a big ole Buick-- GH: Buick. Buick, yeah right. Yeah. JH: Great big-- GH: He&#039 ; d drive right down the middle of the street. That&#039 ; s the last time I saw him. GS: Did you ever get any of that black powder from Dr. King? GH: No. JH: No. GS: Oh, every time we went, he&#039 ; d give us this black powder in a paper. I think it was a laxative, but I mean you did not go to the doctor-- GH: Oh yeah. GS: --without getting that black powder. (Laughter) GH: I used to have [indecipherable]. GS: Oh. GH: That&#039 ; s what they gave me every Saturday. GS: Oh my goodness. Yucky. GH: [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Alright. What do you remember about the city of Bristow growing up? JH: Oh. GS: Just any-- any kind of-- Let me back up a little bit. JH: Okay. GS: Let me, you&#039 ; ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that&#039 ; s just right across the road. You know, they-- GH: From the cemetery. JH: The Poor Farm Cemetery and across the road&#039 ; s Deep Rock Camp, which there&#039 ; s still some houses there. GS: Okay. JH: And you&#039 ; re supposed to be able to get from there down to the hundred and-- whatever it&#039 ; s called-- 41st street now, which the Jones&#039 ; s own all of that. GS: Yes. JH: I drove down through there the other day and they own forever and ever and ever and ever down through there. She lives near where the-- your Poor Farm was. And she said there&#039 ; s actually a few rocks or monument things out there today and all. GS: Okay. JH: Anyway, Deep Rock Camp&#039 ; s just a place where that the people lived and they had-- you know, you had all the oil wells-- GH: Well oil-- JH: and [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah, the oil camp. GS: So the men that worked for the company lived in that camp? GH: Yes. JH: Yes, well and-- yeah. GS: And their families. JH: Right. Yes. GS: Yeah. GH: Yeah. They still out there. Some of the kids still live there. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah there&#039 ; s still houses down there. GH: Yeah. GS: Yeah. Okay, and you&#039 ; ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn&#039 ; t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don&#039 ; t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you&#039 ; re out and it&#039 ; s hot and there&#039 ; s a pool-- a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn&#039 ; t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can&#039 ; t do anything about it. So-- GS: Well and they couldn&#039 ; t see under the water either. (Laughter) JH: Well, [Indecipherable] we had to come out some time. GS: Uh-Oh (Laughter) JH: Along that line, another memory speaking of California, they always had to stop if you were in the crosswalk or you-- it wasn&#039 ; t crosswalk. If you wanted to cross the street, they had to stop in California and let the pedestrians go by. GS: Yes. JH: So, us young boys then twelve or thirteen was standing on the edge and we&#039 ; d see a California tag and we&#039 ; d step out like that so they&#039 ; d have to stop and we would walk across it and we&#039 ; d do the same thing coming back the other way. Boys were ornery then. (Laughter) GS: (Chuckling) Yeah! I think some of them were. Alright now, this Pat Dillard? JH: That was a colored man that-- that thing is the other day I was talking about-- I don&#039 ; t know how you&#039 ; re offended with the word &quot ; nigger&quot ; today, but that was not a negative term growing up, that was an identity. Because I had a-- I worked with a negro man in the oil business and an Indian that I worked with also asked him, &quot ; Well are you black or what?&quot ; He said, &quot ; Black&#039 ; s a color.&quot ; Black is not-- you know-- GS: A race. It&#039 ; s not a race. JH: Right, so there&#039 ; s nothing wrong with me with Negro, and a lot of it&#039 ; s on your birth certificates. But now, Nigger was just a common term back then and we had an old-- Pat Dillard (ph) was as you call them today, a black man. My older brother&#039 ; s opossum hunted with him at night and all. GS: Uh-huh. JH: In fact, I used the word Nigger and my older brother said, &quot ; Oh Pat, I&#039 ; m sorry.&quot ; He said, &quot ; That&#039 ; s alright, he&#039 ; s just a little boy.&quot ; or whatever. So you know, it&#039 ; s not-- to me it was never a derogatory term it was an identification term of who this person was. Because we had another guy that was retarded called Nigger Jim, and he wore pitiful old sewn together clothes and-- GS: Aww. GH: He&#039 ; d be at Main Street all the time, yeah. JH: And even his shoes and things were sometimes sewn together with this old rubber boots or whatever he could find. The Gold Eagle Café was there at Sixth and Main and they always threw some foods and things away, and he would dig through the barrels for food-- GS: Aww. JH: --and things and he just lived out what? Two or three miles out east of town and he just lived with one group and wanted another and all you know. GS: Right. Right. JH: Yeah, so-- GS: It&#039 ; s a shame. JH: Yeah. GS: Yeah, I think the word became offensive-- JH: She&#039 ; s [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: --I can&#039 ; t. I can&#039 ; t. JH: That&#039 ; s okay. GS: But you know my parents, they said it. You know, but no. I can&#039 ; t say it. I&#039 ; m sorry. JH: No you&#039 ; re not. That&#039 ; s fine. GS: Okay. JH: Just in case you don&#039 ; t make me go to hell &#039 ; cause I say it. GS: No. No, because you&#039 ; re not using it as a derogatory term. JH: No, no, no, no, no, no. GS: You&#039 ; re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you&#039 ; ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. JH: And so on-- at the end of the month they always got their money and they&#039 ; d come to town and some of &#039 ; em didn&#039 ; t have wagons and all. A lot of &#039 ; em rode their wagons in around behind the alley behind Gold Eagle Café and Thorpe&#039 ; s Grocery and Cash&#039 ; s Junk Store and whatever GH: [Indecipherable] JH: Anyway, I would take &#039 ; em home because they had a panel truck, O.D. had a panel truck and I&#039 ; d deliver &#039 ; em home down south of Bristow and then there&#039 ; s a couple of colored women one time that we had to squash together in the front seat, but I took them home out by where our high school is now. They lived there. GS: Yes. JH: And so I&#039 ; ve got memories of that, going in their house. And their-- their-- everything about them smells different just a different odor. What they cook and collard greens or whatever and all, but anyway. GS: Right. JH: I delivered groceries for that and so and just learned how people-- a little bit then how people are you know. GS: Right. JH: Nothing like what they are today. GS: No. JH: But anyway, yeah I have some memories of that. And watching O.D. butcher the things and make hamburger meat and watch all that-- GS: Oh. JH: --and how that was done, and things. And so, yeah. O.D. and Oneyta-- or Oneyta were good people and their oldest daughter just passed recently and I left a thing in here because I don&#039 ; t know where you-- GS: I saw that in there and I didn&#039 ; t know what that was about. JH: Well I don&#039 ; t know whether you have the newspaper in Bristow anymore or not? GS: Yes, we do. JH: Well I tried to get that thing to Sherian through the electronics, and I never could, but I left that here. I think people need to know that, that their oldest daughter, that was her. GS: Well we can put that in there. JH: Yeah. GS: We can put that in there. JH: I&#039 ; d like that. Well thank you. GS: Yeah, we&#039 ; ll put it on our Facebook page. JH: Okay, yeah. GS: Okay-- JH: Now your Facebook page is which one, there&#039 ; s forty thousand of &#039 ; em. GS: Okay. Bristow Historical Society. It&#039 ; s not History of Bristow. That is not us. JH: Right. GS: It&#039 ; s-- JH: Bristow-- GS: No. JH: No, not that. Not Bristow-- GS: Not any of those. The Bristow His-- well no, that&#039 ; s different. JH: Which-- which-- GS: Bristow Historical Society. JH: T-O-W Historical. GS: Now you&#039 ; ve got written down here-- JH: Now are you-- how do I get to be a member of that? GS: You just-- JH: I sent a check down here for something another and-- GS: That makes you a member of us. Of Bristow Historic Society-- JH: But how do I get on the-- on the internet? GS: On Facebook, it&#039 ; s on Facebook. JH: It&#039 ; s on Facebook-- GS: Uh-huh. JH: --but don&#039 ; t you have to join? GS: You know-- JH: Let&#039 ; s talk about that later. GS: I don&#039 ; t think that you do. I don&#039 ; t think that you do, but we can talk about that later. JH: Yeah, let&#039 ; s talk about that later. GS: Okay, tell me about the Cash Junk Store. JH: Cash Junk Store was everything that somebody didn&#039 ; t want. Pieces of lamps, farming equipment, hats, coats, old stuff. It was junk. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And he would-- you&#039 ; d take-- you needed something, an old iron or whatever or an antique type thing and take it in and he&#039 ; d give you money and he either-- you could come back and pay him more money and get it back-- (Laughter) JH: --or, you could leave it there and he had the money and you could go in and buy stuff. GS: So it was just an old day-- GH: Pawn Shop. GS: --resale-- Pawn Shop or resale, yeah. JH: Kind of, yeah. GS: Yeah. Now, I have heard the name Mcsude (ph). I know he was a Lebanese immigrant here. JH: Yes. GS: And you&#039 ; ve got written down here Dale Donuts. What can you tell me about Mcsude (ph) and Dale Donuts? JH: Okay, if you remember who had the bakery when you were here earlier on? GS: I don&#039 ; t remember. JH: Jim-- GH: Umm. Uh-- JH: My brother in law. GH: Yeah. JH: Anyway he had the-- they had the Donut Shop right next to Silvers store. Jim Cox (ph). GS: Okay. Yes! Cox Bakery. JH: That&#039 ; s it! GS: I remember Cox Bakery. JH: His-- his wife and my sister--my wife was sisters. GS: Okay! JH: Anyway, Old Man Mcsude (ph) would go up there and buy day old donuts and take them down to this little thing he called grocery store. It was dark in there and he had stuff that was older than whatever. I don&#039 ; t know who bought it there or what else went on because a lot of people, several people in Bristow probably loaned money just like Mrs. Bishop did that had her place up by the mill there and you loaned the money out and they paid back. But anyway, I think-- I still don&#039 ; t know what all they did. He had an old dark grocery store in there and he&#039 ; d just sit around and had a son named Larry. I think he was a pretty sharp guy or whatever, but-- GS: Wasn&#039 ; t a really going establishment. JH: (Chuckling) Well, it was a grocery store-- GH: It was there (chuckling) JH: --but didn&#039 ; t have much business-- GS: Yeah. JH: A lot of traffic. GS: Yeah. JH: Because you had the Golden-- Golden Eagle, then you had a Bishop, which is not any of these Bishops now, a grocery store, and then you had Thorpe&#039 ; s Grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: Then you had the Café I think was the-- GH: Blue-- JH: --Titus&#039 ; s café. [Indecipherable] Café, then anyway. Let&#039 ; s go ahead with whatever. GS: Okay, well you&#039 ; ve got now, Gold Eagle Café I think that was the one that was run by Carolyn now Webb and I can&#039 ; t place her maiden name, but her parents I think-- JH: Could&#039 ; ve been-- GS: --ran that. JH: --I don&#039 ; t know, that&#039 ; s a long-- GS: You&#039 ; ve got hamburgers, fifteen cents? JH: Yep! GS: Did you eat there often? JH: Well you didn&#039 ; t eat there, but you bought it and ate it on walking down the street or whatever. (Laughter) GS: Okay. JH: Yes. No. Yeah, they had-- they had stools and booths and all. But no, if you wanna talk about eating, you can go back up to-- The Lebanese pretty well was very influential in settling Bristow and Depew-- GS: Yes, they were. JH: --and many other places. But another Lebanese that I&#039 ; ve been thinking about a long time now and I can&#039 ; t think of his name. Had the best chili with-- GH: I&#039 ; ve been tryna think of his-- GS: Korkames? Korkames? JH: No. Well-- GS: Not Mr. Korkames? GH: This-- this guy, you could buy. You got a bowl of chili for I think fifteen cents. GS: Okay. GH: Then went next door to the bakery shop and get a donut for ten cents and then you&#039 ; d be home [Indecipherable] GS: Alright! GH: But he had the-- he that chili. I was tryna think of his name the other day and I-- JH: I&#039 ; ll think of it in a few minutes because I thought of it the other day. He lived-- GH: I never thought of it. JH: He lived across the street from Junior High School. GH: Okay. JH: Anyway, lets don&#039 ; t waste all day long on it. GS: Alrighty, did we did the twenties was prohibition. Later on after that, people would sell liquor that they made. Do you have any knowledge of bootlegging in this country? GH: White Lightening. GS: White Lightening huh? JH: I remember buying it. Did you buy it? GH: Oh yeah! Yeah. There&#039 ; s a guy about three miles south on 48 and you could go down there for a dollar and buy a pint-- a pint of that White Lightening. GS: Oh. JH: How do you know you could do that? GH: &#039 ; Cause I went down there and bought it! (Laughter) GH: And-- and the reason I-- after that I never went again. There&#039 ; s some others several boys together and my dad worked for the county at the night watchman down at the county barn JH: Oh yeah. GH: And we didn&#039 ; t have any money, so I went in there to see if I could get a dollar from him and he gave me a dollar and we went down there and bought that liquor and from that time on I said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m not buying anymore.&quot ; I was so ashamed-- JH: Oh yeah. GH: --spend that dollar for the liquor and he worked so hard for it. (Laughter) GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that&#039 ; s this boys-- GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was-- back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they&#039 ; d have three hundred pounds of ice in a vat that was-- it was down in this ammonia and all this other stuff that froze the water. JH: Ice water. GH: So you&#039 ; d pull that up out of there, take it down at the cool storage, cut it up into fifties, hundreds, twenty-five pounds and then it stayed in there. And then you sold it on the dock. GS: Okay. GH: And then the come by-- people going to work, they bring their ice cans, we put that ice in that twelve and a half pounds of ice for twenty cents. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And put that ice in those buckets. I mean in those ice cans. GS: Uh-huh. GH: Yeah. JH: But didn&#039 ; t you deliver it to houses also? GH: Oh yes! I still got money-- well it used to be color, color town. People still owe me money down there. Perhaps you already know this, but they put a sign-- they had a little sign that had twenty-five, hundred pound, fifty pound, seventy-five pound and if they wanted that, they&#039 ; d-- what they wanted they&#039 ; d put it in the window. GS: Oh! GH: So when you drove by through the to [Indecipherable] see what sign and you take it, fifty pound, put it on your back, take it down there, put it in the ice box. GS: Oh my goodness GH: And they&#039 ; d leave the money on top of the ice box. Well sometimes the money wouldn&#039 ; t be there. GS: Oh! GH: But rather than carry the ice back, put it back in-- GS: You leave the ice GH: You just left it and then sometimes they&#039 ; d pay you the next time, right? JH: Yeah (Laughter) GS: Right. Sometimes they didn&#039 ; t, huh? GH: Sometimes didn&#039 ; t. But then my other story about that is that [Indecipherable] that I was telling you just before-- GS: Yes! GH: That new way [Indecipherable] three thousand pounds of ice GS: Wow GH: With the cooler vats, that they&#039 ; s making that [Indecipherable] in. GS: Oh wow! GH: And you had to carry this hundred pounds on your back, had a little ol&#039 ; step rine (ph) you just put up, you had to turn around and drop it off into this vat. GS: Wow! GH: And that was a pretty good-- pretty good task. GS: I just imagine GH: Yeah we delivered out in the country, deliver ice in the country. Pull the ice, worked at the dock, and I did all that for the ice company. GS: You must&#039 ; ve been a strong young man. GH: Ah, well, I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: Would be the question, or needy, I don&#039 ; t know which JH: Needy (Laughter) GS: Alright well let&#039 ; s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren&#039 ; t good enough but we got tired of that cause&#039 ; he wouldn&#039 ; t ever let us play GS: Oh JH: So he and I both quit and went out for wresting, and we both got to wrestle the first thing we beat out whatever so, but for football I went out the whole time for the comradery of it cause&#039 ; I only got to play one play GS: Aww JH: And they finally sent me in and they- we punted the ball and then I run down there and I smeared that guy good and they give a penalty and the coach called me back over to sit down and I said &quot ; Well what&#039 ; s wrong&quot ; and well he signaled safe call GS: Oh (Laughter) JH: So, I did. I went ahead and stayed on with football but just cause&#039 ; uh, to be with the other people and all. GS: Right JH: But wrestling I was a little bit better than an average wrestler I guess. But it was a great, great sport to-- to teach ya not dirty how to do things dirty, but how to protect yourself and [Indecipherable], self-discipline GH: What was that coaches name, you remember? JH: Curt Thompson (ph) GH: Curt Thompson (ph), boy yeah he was a nice guy GS: Oh my goodness, he was GH: Yeah, like he said he was more of a teacher than he was a coach GS: He must&#039 ; ve been pretty young when we taught you JH: Mm, yeah he was probably- GH: He was probably in WWII JH: Had he? GH: Yeah! Well he was Jack and he, ya know, him and his two younger sisters were, we were family friends with them JH: Yeah GH: Yeah, no he&#039 ; d would&#039 ; ve been to WWII I think and come back GS: In the late sixties he was my seventh grade, I believe JH: Science GS: Science teacher JH: Yeah GS: Seventh or eighth grade GH: Yeah he taught science, yeah JH: So he knew her GS: Yeah, I knew- I love him! I just thought he was a great teacher JH: Aw yeah GS: I think it was seventh grade JH: Yeah GS: Yeah, okay any other high school shenanigans? JH: Oh I can&#039 ; t tell about them (Laughter) JH: Were you with us when we borrowed the watermelons that night? GH: Oh yeah, yeah, we went south of town there JH: We were needing-- gonna have a senior trip so we needed some money for this senior trip so Jolie Craig (ph), who was a little bit ornery and all he borrowed, wonder if I can&#039 ; t stand to think of the cowboy&#039 ; s name. Anyway we borrowed his pickup truck and went down south, five or six miles south where one of the guys knew where some watermelon patches were GS: Uh-oh JH: And we got down in there and we got our watermelons and started loading them up, about that time the lights turned on (Laughter) JH: Car down there, he [Indecipherable] all of us but one jumped in the truck and took off, and one we made go through the woods and all we had to go back to Bristow, come back down later on and drive through the woods and find him &#039 ; cause he had walked four or five miles. GH: [Indecipherable] JH: I don&#039 ; t remember which one that was, but anyway we didn&#039 ; t get to sell our watermelons at the fair and make money GH: Another time we was-- Christmas time GS: Yes GH: we were going up this hill over there by-- coming out of [Indecipherable], you come up that hill. Well, we were going and these guys had these water balloons JH: Uh-oh GH: And they threw these balloons into this car that was coming down that hill GS: Oh dear GH: Busted that lady&#039 ; s windshield GS: Oh no GH: Ah yeah, and-- but that was not hardly the worst part of it, the worst part of it: we had to spend our money, Christmas money, to fix that GS: To fix the windshield GH: the windshield GS: Yeah, yeah. I&#039 ; m guessing you guys were baptized after these events (Laughter) GH: No I was before that. I was baptized before that. I just didn&#039 ; t know it but GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn&#039 ; t see this backside here. Okay, I think I&#039 ; ve got that one. You&#039 ; ve got down here &quot ; Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)&quot ; JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they&#039 ; re older. There&#039 ; s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He&#039 ; s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those girls like I said they&#039 ; d- night and day they kept that tractor running and all. They lived just, whatever. And there&#039 ; s-- [Inaudible] JH: Open that and see if there&#039 ; s not some more pictures of stuff in there maybe GS: I think we put them away JH: Anyways, but then the Alcorns (ph) and what was the other ones? GS: Bigponds (ph) and Tigers (ph) JH: Yeah, the Indians have been around here forever. Like I said, Jerry Riley (ph) was my first-- he was creek and his-- I don&#039 ; t remember he had some half brothers and sisters and all, and he had that little younger sister too for, I don&#039 ; t think she&#039 ; s alive though anymore either, probably. But anyway yeah we were [Indecipherable] and we all went to school together and everything and all, but-- &#039 ; cause I remember them at our pie suppers and our Christmas parties and things like that. So we were all a big, big big community out there. GH: The Bigponds had it and still got a name down there in Bigpond corner. GS: Yes, yes GH: And had a store down there GS: Uh-huh. I&#039 ; ve heard of Bigpond corner from my father GH: South of [Indecipherable], yeah GS: Yeah GH: They had a big JH: I&#039 ; d almost forgotten about that GH: They had a big store down there JH: We&#039 ; ll talk about that later then. Yeah okay, no I just thought about memories that I&#039 ; ve of there. Oh, what store is that and now, across the street where you turn to go into the Alcorns on the other side of it is Joe Allen, this big Indian guy, that big two story house is still there and I remember when I was little so it had to be in the late forties. GH: No, the thirties JH: Anyway, the time before I was eight years old, I would carry a jug of water in a tote sack, a feed sack from the cow feed and all with newspapers wrapped around it all wet and all and I&#039 ; d take it down to where Joe Allen&#039 ; s place where my older brothers were harvesting hay, bailing hay, and take cool water to them. GS: Awww JH: So we walked barefooted in the hot sand GH: Oh yeah JH: And you walk kinda fast GH: [Indecipherable] cotton than the sand (Laughter) GS: Okay now right here GH: Tigers GS: You&#039 ; ve got written &quot ; Indian Purse&quot ; JH: Oh GS: Can you tell me about that? JH: Well, I&#039 ; ve got all that stuff somewhere is it not, look in through that folder GS: This is my folder, it&#039 ; s not in here JH: Oh your folder GS: Yeah JH: Hmm JH: Uh-oh. Oh I didn&#039 ; t give you all of your stuff, didn&#039 ; t you, did you get that GS: I just glanced at it JH: Okay that- that&#039 ; s not it then. Okay. Yeah see, this Mardel Henry (ph) and the other one I mentioned Lucy (ph) a lot gave me a little Indian purse GS: Oh I see! There is it! JH: There it is! GS: Oh I wish we could take a picture of it for the interview. Oh how neat! And I guess they handmade it? JH: I guess GH: Not sure JH: Who knows GS: Yeah I bet they did GH: I&#039 ; m sure they did JH: And I don&#039 ; t know which one of them did it and all but you know, in the first grade you&#039 ; re just kinda flirting, you don&#039 ; t know (Laughter) GS: It&#039 ; s a cute little leather uh, like a coin purse JH: Coin purse but you couldn&#039 ; t put very many coins in it GS: No it won&#039 ; t hold much, it has a snap clasp GH: Didn&#039 ; t have much GS: And-- and they&#039 ; ve put beads through wires and loops coming around the edges. JH: Uh-huh GS: On one side, the beads have come off, but, well that&#039 ; s got to be pretty old (Laughter) JH: My nametags from military, and I went through a memory of [Indecipherable] GH: Oh JH: You&#039 ; ve got two name tags, you&#039 ; ve got one and then GH: Dog tags JH: you&#039 ; ve got the little chains on the other ones GH: Dog Tags JH: Dog Tags GH: Yeah JH: And the reason you got two is one of them you stuck the thing between your teeth, and the other they took off [Indecipherable] for identification GS: Oh JH: And left that there GS: I did not realize that [Indecipherable] GS: Okay what about the Gastons (ph) and the Paynes (ph) at slick? JH: The Gastons (ph) I grew up with them and I think there&#039 ; s some of them still out there maybe the younger ones and the oil business and all, but this is just who was in out Freewill Baptist church that&#039 ; s a lot of members of that and all GS: Sure JH: [Indecipherable] GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don&#039 ; t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you-- were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh?JH: Not really, didn&#039 ; t have core organized things like that then GS: Okay JH: Ya know, we just had families that had things in common and whatever GS: Okay, well lets skips back to high school. What did you do-- What did you do for fun in High School? JH: Flirted GS: You flirted, like most high school kids (Laughter) JH: And knocked the books out of a guy&#039 ; s hand, and then, it&#039 ; s written down here too GS: You weren&#039 ; t a bully, were you JH: He&#039 ; s walkin&#039 ; around like this- No I was not a bully, but I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: I remember my high school year, last year in high school, I came to town every night. Every night, for the high school year ; even Sunday. GS: And what brought you to town? GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Oh! GH: And we drove main street GS: Yes GH: Called drive main street, you drive up there, turned around down there by fourth street, and back up. Every night of my senior year, I did that. JH: And Gerald had an old 39&#039 ; ford GH: 39&#039 ; ford JH: Coop. And one time we drove to Sapulpa in that coop GH: Yeah JH: And it took a gallon of gas there and back, but it took about three gallons of oil &#039 ; cause he&#039 ; d burned a lot of oil GS: Oh goodness (Laughter) JH: But his brother Oscar was- GH: Meyer JH: Was a mechanic GH: Meyer JH: Not when GH: Meyer JH: Meyer (ph), Meyer (ph) and so he had drained the oil out of his little car since Gerald using his car cause his car burned a lot of oil GH: It was a ninety horse motor GS: Oh my goodness JH: Okay where were we? GS: Okay well we&#039 ; re talking about school life GH: Oh GS: And, anything else about your high school, like maybe teachers that were influential, or a mess or favorite, or any memories of that? JH: We had some really good, really smart teachers. Our algebra teacher was great, and our science teacher Mr. [Indecipherable] I can&#039 ; t remember GH: I thought I just looked at it yesterday JH: Yeah, okay but anyway yeah we had a lot of good teachers, shop teacher was great shop teacher. And that&#039 ; s one that I used to, till I got older I&#039 ; ve still did wood work, I love wood work and all that. Had good school members and-- GH: I had a Mrs. Foster (ph), although Mr. Bow (ph) was the [Indecipherable] JH: Oh yeah he was an agriculture GH: Yeah, yeah, Mrs. Foster was our, what do you call it? Group leader, what do you call it? GS: Okay GH: Sponsors GS: Sponsors GH: She went with us on a senior trip GS: Okay JH: Oh, Mrs. Foster GS: Now, is that the Arthur Fosters (ph)? JH: No GH: No, it&#039 ; s the- what was their first name? Pauline? Pauline? GS: Pauline Foster (ph)? JH: No it wasn&#039 ; t Pauline- Samson GH: Samson GS: Pauline Samson (ph) GH: No JH: He was a GH: No he was, he was, he was chemistry teacher. But I&#039 ; m talking about Mrs. Foster. Caroline&#039 ; s her name GS: Caroline Foster (ph) GH: Caroline Foster (ph) JH: Oh Caroline, [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh, yeah and Arthur (ph), yes GH: Yes GS: Did you, did you go to Tulsa or Oklahoma City much when you lived here? Did you ever take the train there? JH: I took the train from here in about the sixth grade up somewhere to Claremore and where I first learned about RC GS: And what is that? JH: You don&#039 ; t know what RC is? RC Cola? GH: Oh yeah RC Cola JH: Would you give me one of those RCs? GH: Yeah JH: And a moon pie GS: Oh yes (Laughter) JH: Yes that was- that&#039 ; s a long time ago, but yes that&#039 ; s-- I rode the train from here up to Claremore or wherever it was, then came back and all. GS: Okay JH: So yeah. GS: Did you have your own car? JH: No, not until I was already, we were in High School I didn&#039 ; t, or not GH: I don&#039 ; t think you&#039 ; d had a car JH: No, Donny or whoever my brothers [Indecipherable] GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Right JH: He bought one before he went to Korea, and I knew it was from momma &#039 ; cause we hadn&#039 ; t had a car since GS: Oh JH: Way back after we moved to town in &#039 ; 42, we had it for a year or two then she sold it. We walked-- GS: Walked everywhere JH: She walked every morning to Thorpe&#039 ; s grocery back home. We walked to the Freewill Baptist church back home, we walked wherever we went GS: Sure JH: And like somebody else GS: It&#039 ; s a small town JH: Yeah, right. GH: I&#039 ; ll tell ya a story about him ruining my car. GS: Uh-oh GH: And [Indecipherable] yeah. I didn&#039 ; t know what, so it had fluid drive. [Indecipherable], we went out at the ball-- out at the football field. He went out there in the truck and started running, making loops JH: No that&#039 ; s not- that&#039 ; s not true GH: That&#039 ; s true! And it stuck, and it- we couldn&#039 ; t get it out of gear GS: Oh no! GH: After that, and I had to, and never did get it out of gear GS: Aww GH: And I took it and had it [Indecipherable] GS: Awww, did you make him pay for it? GH: No, no (Laughter) GH: I&#039 ; ve never forgiven him though, just kidding GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in &#039 ; 54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn&#039 ; t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and everything and life wasn&#039 ; t that easy but I did it, I made a dollar and a half a day sweeping out one of the office buildings, and all so I survived but then, the second semester I just didn&#039 ; t do very good at all and I was still tore up with my brother killed in Korea GS: Sure JH: And I had to be in a, in a military type thing there whatever you called it GH: ROTC JH: ROTC, and I just didn&#039 ; t do good at all, so I got a letter at the end of the year that said &quot ; Don&#039 ; t come back Jimmy&quot ; GS: Oh no! (Laughter) JH: I said okay, so I went to work then in Tulsa, it&#039 ; s [Indecipherable] and all, and then but was dating my wife to be over from Depew, and I took Gerald over and he found one too, and GH: Still married JH: And anyway, so I got married on June of 1956, and working for SH Crest Variety store in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a year and a half, and then, this-- I went out, I didn&#039 ; t, I left that job and was looking or another job and they said &quot ; Well what&#039 ; s your classification?&quot ; and I said &quot ; Well I don&#039 ; t have one&quot ; and they said &quot ; Well you have to&quot ; so I had to went to Sapulpa and-- to the board there and one old man that&#039 ; s a little bit old and irritated and all, and he said &quot ; Well why didn&#039 ; t you register?&quot ; I said &quot ; Well I did but we don&#039 ; t have any record of it&quot ; well the lady said &quot ; Well wait a minute, now wha--&quot ; she went through the thing here, here&#039 ; s a little slip of yellow paper that says &quot ; Jimmy Hurts said I had registered&quot ; but it was never on the thing and this old guy got irritated and said &quot ; Well you&#039 ; re going in and you&#039 ; re going in&quot ; and I said &quot ; Well I don&#039 ; t have a job right now, let&#039 ; s go&quot ; (Laughter) JH: So I went in the army, and spent my two years in then come out and got married to Pat, and then, after I got out of-- while I was in the army then we got-- she got pregnant, but we, I was starting to work in Rossland, New Mexico for SunRay DX Oil Company GS: Okay JH: And was there and still had good Christian friends there from 1959 GS: Wonderful JH: I was there fifteen months, transferred with SunRay DX Oil Company now Tulsa, Oklahoma and went to Albuquerque and was there for thirteen months and then transferred to Midland, Texas and I lived there four and a half years and during that four and a half years, I changed jobs and went to work for Union Calif (ph). Ya know, putting the California, and retired with them in 1992, and so I&#039 ; ve had been, like I said been blessed in that area too. Just had a good life and still got the Christian friends and Roswell (ph) and so forth some, anyway I won&#039 ; t go into all that detail. GS: Well that&#039 ; s good detail, I like detail. Are there any stories that we&#039 ; ve forgotten or any subject that I haven&#039 ; t brought up that you&#039 ; d like to tell me about? I ask a lot of people this question, and I often get the same answer. As you see it, what are some of the biggest problems that face out nation and how do you think they could be solved? JH: First of all, every man that&#039 ; s born since Adam and Eve are born with this sin nature, in my belief, we all have sinned and all. Some of us control it and some of us don&#039 ; t, but there&#039 ; s evil in good people, and I don&#039 ; t care whether you&#039 ; re a Christian or whatever, all mankind has a sin nature. Well, it&#039 ; s sin is becoming rampant now and self-producing greed is just-- it&#039 ; s whatever. And if you don&#039 ; t agree with me, then we&#039 ; re so insecure and spoiled rotten, the kids like the think where you can&#039 ; t correct your child or anything anymore, that the government so, you know, it&#039 ; s just really, it would be sad if I was not knowledgeable that the bible says, the bible says it&#039 ; s gonna get better and better, oh no the bible don&#039 ; t say that GS: No it doesn&#039 ; t JH: It says it&#039 ; s gonna get worse and worse and-- so I don&#039 ; t like it and I&#039 ; m disappointed in it, but I accept it because it&#039 ; s what it spoke, it&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s gonna happen sin and nature is always gonna take over there. GS: Yeah, yeah JH: So that&#039 ; s the way I see the world today. GS: Yeah, I agree with ya. JH: Yeah, you better (Laughter) GH: Then get mad JH: right before you deny GS: Well I could probably use that anyway, alright. We&#039 ; re coming out of the pandemic. Is-- How has that affected you? JH: It didn&#039 ; t affect me at all because I acknowledge the way it is, and that I&#039 ; m gonna do what I&#039 ; m gonna do and then my belief in all and it&#039 ; s like the shots now, I have Christian friends that you get the shots, I said no and I&#039 ; m not gonna get &#039 ; em. And I you wanna get one, go ahead, but don&#039 ; t tell me what-- don&#039 ; t try to control me and I don&#039 ; t wanna try to control you GS: Right JH: And that&#039 ; s the thing is, people with that same sin and nature if I can control you then it makes me feel better about myself, well why do I need to control you? GS: Right, yeah. Yeah. JH: Got anything to add to that? GH: Well yeah I think you need to get the shot (Laughter) GS: There we go GH: If you&#039 ; re running around with me GS: Well I think we&#039 ; ll end on that note with Jim JH: Oh okay GS: And I appreciate everything Jim, I loved your stories and thank you so much for coming back JH: Well thank you-- GS: And letting us do this interview JH: for offering this for memories, is what live for today GS: Yeah, yeah JH: Yeah GS: Okay, well we&#039 ; re gonna end it right here, and then-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 3600 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jim Hurt Description An account of the resource In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-2021-16 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-30 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio