3
10
101
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/63aec14ed3db3f27b79ea35c58350e08.jpg
d1832a2b8b0d268ef5b4396d4ac34ebb
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
David Barnett
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0065_David_Barnett.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
6.0 September 5, 2024 OHP-0065 David Barnett OHP-0065 01:32:37 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory David Barnett Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0065 Barnett, David.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is September 5, 2024 and I'm sitting here with David Barnett at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; David Leroy Barnett.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And do I have permission to record this interview? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David Leroy Barnett was born on April 15, 1950. He was born in Bristow, Oklahoma at the Sisler Clinic. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow Library Annex ; David Leroy Barnett ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Sisler Clinic Birth 0 42 Parents Regan Siler 
 ; 1950, okay. Can you tell me about the people in your family? Um, let's start with your parents. Can you tell me their full names?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; William Dotson Barnett, born in November of 1920. Syble Marie Horn Barnett, born in January of 1920. I said on Dotson, did I say '20?
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Is it 1914?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David's father was William Dotson Barnett. He was born on November 12, 1914. His mother was Syble Marie Horn Barnett. She was born on January 15, 1920. William Dotson Barnett ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Parents 0 83 Parents' Work Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. And what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, most of their life, they were sharecroppers with my grandparents. My dad and all of his brothers and sisters started out as sharecroppers with their parents, and my dad was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. So, has your family always been here? Or do you know when they came? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; They came around the time I was born. I was last of seven children, and the only one born in Bristow. They lived down south of Holdenville. The last place was south of Holdenville, actually south of Spalding, across the south Canadian River, and my brothers and sisters had to walk across the swinging bridge to get to the school bus.
 ; David's father was a sharecropper with his parents and siblings. His father was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. David's family moved to Bristow not long before he was born. The family lived south of Holdenville before that. Bristow (Okla.) ; Holdenville (Okla.) ; Spalding (Okla.) ; Canadian River ; William Dotson Barnett Work ; Parents 0 142 Siblings Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, my goodness. So, how many and you have, how many siblings?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Have three brothers and three sisters.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And you're the baby.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I'm the baby. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; You're the baby. Okay, well, can you tell me, can you tell me all their names, just so we'll have that on record?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes. Charlene Fairchild is the oldest. Evelyn Cheatwood is the second child. Darryl Dotson Barnett was the third child. Ralph Barnett was the fourth child and Jimmy Dale Barnett was the fifth child. And then Marilyn Hight, it was my baby sister, but she's still older than me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right, and then there and then there was you.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; And then there was me.
 ; David is the youngest of seven children. He has three brothers and three sisters. His siblings are Charlene Fairchild, Evelyn Cheatwood, Darryl Dotson Barnett, Ralph Barnett, Jimmy Dale Barnett and Marilyn Hight. Charlene Fairchild ; Evelyn Cheatwood ; Darryl Dotson Barnett ; Ralph Barnett ; Jimmy Dale Barnett ; Marilyn Hight siblings 0 184 Grandparents Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, so when you were growing up, did you have much family that lived nearby you? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, a lot of the family lived around here, but primarily our my Grandma Horn and her and Grandpa Ben were separated, so she lived with us till she passed when I was about 10-years-old. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. And that would have been your mom's parents?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; My mom's mom.
 ; David had a lot of family nearby when he was growing up. David's maternal grandparents were separated, so his grandmother lived with David and his family until she passed away when David was about 10. Grandparents Grandparents 0 212 Childhood Home Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk about your childhood a little bit. Um, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played as a youngster? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No. There was not a lot to the family was dying, living in a 2-1/2 room house, was you played outside with whatever you could find.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Well, I had talked to Stacey [Stacey Barnett Shields] a little bit, and she said that it was like you were a teenager before you had, like, indoor plumbing?
 ; David and his family lived in a small 2-1/2 bedroom house when he was young. They did not have indoor plumbing until the early 1960's. David and his siblings spent a lot of time outside. Stacey Barnett Shields ; Conrad Fairchild ; California ; Ralph Barnett Home 0 425 Chores Regan Siler 
 ; Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Um, well, did you have chores that you were expected to do as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, yeah, a lot, not a lot, but we did have a milk cow, and I got up before we went to school and milked. And mom sometimes milked in the evening, because she worked like five until one or something.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And, so, you said you were 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mom worked in a restaurant cooking, or cafes around Bristow, cooking.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Until she retired.
 ; David's mother worked a lot when David and his siblings were growing up. She worked in restaurants and cafes around Bristow cooking. David was expected to milk the cow in the mornings before he went to school. Syble Marie Horn Barnett ; Bristow (Okla.) Chores 0 458 Living in Bristow and Stillwater Regan Siler 
 ; Okay. So, have you lived in Bristow your entire life? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Except for the time that we lived in Stillwater for a year after I graduated from OSU from 1970 until '74.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Lived in actually '71 to '74.
 ; David has lived in Bristow most of his life. He lived in Stillwater for bit after he attended OSU. Bristow (Okla.) ; Stillwater (Okla.) ; Oklahoma State University Bristow (Okla.) ; Stillwater (Okla.) 0 477 House in Bristow Regan Siler 
 ; So, whenever you were a kid, did you have like friends that came over and played, or did you mainly just play with your siblings and cousins?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, there was typically kids lived down in the bottom of a hill. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, where was your house at? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Out on the path, on the road, at the dead end road past the old Assembly of God church. You go over there and go all the way to the dead end. It was the next to the last house.
 ; David's childhood home was located on the dead-end road past the old Assembly of God church in Bristow. David believes his mother bought the home in late 1949 off of the Blackwells. Assembly of God church ; Blackwell ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Seventh Street ; Ruby Ritchie ; refinery Home ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 573 Childhood Activities Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child that you can remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Not in particular. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; So, like, what did you like, what were some things that you did as kids? Like, I knew you had to play outside. So,what, what were some things that you would do?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, you tried to build toys out of scraps the best you could. You know, I remember making little hay bales to go on the truck.
 ; David and his siblings used their imaginations and played a lot outdoors as children. They used scrap materials they found to create toys. David's first bicycle was built from materials out of the dump. Activities Activities 0 647 School Regan Siler 
 ; Not really? Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I guess you attended Bristow for grades one through twelve? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, do you remember having any influential teachers?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, I had a lot, you know, probably in the most influential was Carolyn Foster.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; A lot of people mention her.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, hers was more direct influence than others.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right.
 ; David attended Bristow Public Schools until he graduated. He says the most influential teacher he had was Carolyn Foster. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Carolyn Foster School 0 676 Working While in School David Barnett 
 ; I went to work in the seventh, eighth grade, an hour a day for List Motors across where the south end of Bolin, Mainer Ford is now, and worked for him for an hour a day. And then my last three years in high school, I worked for Mancel Murphy. Most of the time, I worked 40 hours a week. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Wow! 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Five hours a day, Monday through Friday, and then 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, what did you do that young working for List Motors? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Just sweeping the floor and cleaning up.
 ; David worked for List Motors an hour a day when he was in the seventh or eighth grade. He would sweep the floors and do some cleaning. Then when he was in high school, he worked for Mancel Murphy. He typically worked forty hours a week. David would work five hours a day Monday through Friday and then ten-hour days on Saturday and Sundays. List Motors ; Bolin Ford ; Mainer Ford ; Mancel Murphy ; Champlain gas station ; Noel Propst ; Phillips 66 ; Bill Farha Sr. Work 0 788 Walking to School Regan Siler 
 ; It's kind of like my dad never got a riding lawn mower until after we left home. We always had two push mowers. Well, do you remember how you got to school?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Walked most of the time. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Walked? Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; That's kind of like selling the milk cow. The school bus started coming up to the end of the road the very week that I got my car, and I was sixteen. So, up to that time all of the kids walked.
 ; David walked to school most of his childhood. He says the bus started coming to the end of their road the week he got his car when he was sixteen. McDonald's ; Casey's School 0 847 Teachers and Favorite Subject Regan Siler 
 ; Right. Okay. Um, were you a member of any clubs or organizations when you were in school? 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Well, so I mean, did you like school? Did you enjoy school? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mostly, yeah. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Did you have a favorite subject? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, probably math because it was easiest for me.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right.
 ; David says he mostly enjoyed school. He especially enjoyed math because it was easy for him. David says that Tom Miller was the best math teacher he ever had in school. He also says that Neva Gurley was a strong math teacher. When David was in high school, Carolyn Foster was the one who asked him if he had thought about a career in banking. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Tom Miller ; Neva Gurley ; Carolyn Foster ; Oklahoma State University School 0 1015 Sleeping in Childhood Home Regan Siler 
 ; Right, okay, um, well, we've talked a little bit about the house you grew up in. I would like to kind of circle back to that. Um, obviously, if there was at least nine people living there, you probably had to share a room with a lot of siblings, I'm guessing.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, well, there was a bed in the living room. That was one of the pieces of furniture in the living room. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Was a bed.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Mom and grandma slept in it.
 ; David's childhood home was very small. He shared a room with a lot of his siblings. His mother and grandmother shared a bed in the living room. Syble Marie Horn Barnett Home 0 1067 Mealtimes Regan Siler 
 ; Yeah, there just wasn't much stuff. Okay, well, what were meal times like for your family?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I don't know. My oldest sister got married when I was five. She had her first child by the time, I was an uncle, by the time I was six.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, wow!
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; My sister, Evelyn, is the one and Grandma Horn, pretty much, took care of me, you know. And then mom was there of an evening, so meals were usually simple, you know. 
 ; Meals were a big deal in David's family. They all sat down to eat meals together. David's favorite meal that his mother cooked was fried chicken. They typically only got meat on Sundays. Evelyn Cheatwood ; Grandma Horn ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett Mealtimes 0 1212 Cooking Regan Siler 
 ; And your mom worked in cafes around town, different cafes. Was she known at any I mean?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, it was, she was one of the real good cooks. Fact is, I don't know whether she invented the recipe, but the recipe for the Lions Club pancake batter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; I was going to ask you about that.
 ; David's mother cooked in cafes around town. She worked at the Harvey House and then later at the Highway Cafe. She was at the Highway Cafe for probably 15-20 years. David says that he got the recipe for pancake batter that he still uses for the Lions Club breakfast from his mother. David worked lunches at the Highway Cafe in exchange for his lunch. Lions Club ; Highway Cafe ; Thelma Groom ; Harvey House ; Dr. Schafer ; Ford Hardware ; Bristow (Okla.) Cooking 0 1456 Western Heritage Days Regan Siler 
 ; Right. Um, well, thinking back to like town life growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities, as like, you know, say, during your school age, probably more like teenage years. Like, I'm thinking like Western Heritage Days, or day camp, parades, county fairs, like, can you tell me about any of that?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Western Heritage Days. I never attended day camp. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, so tell me about Western Heritage Days. What was that like for you?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, it was a big deal. I mean, you know, it was a lot more people in town, and lasted a lot longer.
 ; David says he never attended day camp in Bristow growing up. He says that Western Heritage Days was a big deal. He says there were a lot of people, and it was much bigger than it is nowadays. Western Heritage Days ; Day camps Western Heritage Days 0 1513 Businesses Around Town Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, well, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town that you remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, Strong's Hardware had been here for Eddie Strong had Strong's Hardware. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Didn't really walk up and down Main Street a lot. We went to the Holiness Church when I was younger, so we walked all the way down to railroad track and then to church. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, was it located at the same location that it is now? Okay.
 ; David remembers Strong's Hardware as being popular when he was young. He says Hamburger King was popular, but he never ate a hamburger from there. Jack Abraham had a diner that served a lot of coffee. Strong's Hardware ; Eddie Strong ; Main Street ; Bristow Holiness Church ; Hamburger King ; Jack Abraham Business 0 1626 Teenage Life Regan Siler 
 ; Well, did you have any favorite places to hang out as a teenager? Like, say, when you started driving and you were hanging out with your friends. Like, where were some of places you would go?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, we went to Teen Town on Saturday night.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, what is teen town? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; It was down there, probably where the empty lot is, is it on Ninth Street, on the north side of the street, across from
 ; David says he went to Teen Town on Saturday nights when he was a teenager. Teens would play there with their bands. Lester Brace's wife was in charge and kept it going. One of the bands was Jack Abraham, Bobby Abraham, Mike Bishop and Buddy Farris. Teen Town ; Bristow Historical Society ; Lester Brace ; Jack Abraham ; Bobby Abraham ; Mike Bishop ; Buddy Farris ; Hamburger King ; Route 66 ; Elks Lodge Teenage Life 0 1824 Clothing Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. No. I mean, that's fine. Um, well, do you remember where you got most of your clothes? Did your did your family make it? Did make your clothes? Did you buy your clothes?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, most of mine if I remember right were hand me downs. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Hand me downs. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David doesn't really remember where most of his clothes as a child came from. He says that you wore what was available. He believes most of his clothing was hand me downs, probably from his brothers. Clothing Clothing 0 1861 Family Car Regan Siler 
 ; You just had them. Okay. Well, do you remember your family's first car, what it was?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, it's a '54 Chevrolet.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; '54 Chevrolet. Did you ever get to take any vacations or anything in it? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Oh, no.
 ; David's family's first car was a 1954 Chevrolet. He says they never vacationed in it though. David's mother worked nearly 365 days a year and was rarely off. Chevrolet automobile ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Car 0 1887 First Car Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, um, do you remember what your first car was?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; A '62 Ford Fairlane. Actually, it was probably the '54 Chevy, but that was driving it messed up the front end of it. And that's when I got to '62 Ford Fairlane. And turns out my brother in law fixed the '54 Chevy, and my sister drove it for 20 years. It was, it was a good car. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; It was a good car.
 ; David's first car was a 1962 Ford Fairlane. He paid $800 for it. David worked at Champlain's to make the payments. David and Ellen bought a second car, a bigger Chevy after they were married. Bill Shattuck ; Baptist Church ; Ford Fairlane ; Chevrolet automobile ; Toyota automobiles ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Champlain Station Car 0 2039 Learning to Drive Regan Siler 
 ; Do you remember who taught you how to drive?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I don't. I remember when granddad passed away, of course, I was 14, and we had his, we inherited his old pickup, but the battery was bad, so we kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down and start it. And I took mom to work in in that until we bought the '54 Chevy. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And did you do that before you were actually able to drive?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I was 14. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; And the police met us at the, well, they met her at the Highway Cafe every morning to open up. And, you know, I was nervous they was gonna find out about me. I'm sure they knew!
 ; David started driving when he was 14 years old. David's family inherited his grandfather's truck when he passed away. The battery was bad, so they kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down to start it. David would drive this to take his mother to work until they bought the 1954 Chevy. Chevrolet automobile ; Highway Cafe ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Drive 0 2085 Television Regan Siler 
 ; They probably did know. So did you guys, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you have a TV or?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, I bought the first TV from somebody that came by when, when I was at Champlin, so that would have been '66.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, man, um, and that was for your family or for 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Everybody was out of the house, basically but me.
 ; David and his family did not own a television until 1966. He was a teenager so most of his siblings were out of the home by then. David bought it from someone who stopped by Champlain when he was working. Television ; Champlain Station Televsion 0 2131 Medical Care Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Um. So, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you guys have a family doctor? Did you usually just try to handle stuff at home or?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; We had a family doctor, but mostly, if we had something, we went to Dr. Czeskleba (Clayton Czeskleba) in Tulsa. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Czeskleba.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; David would visit the Sisler Clinic for medical care as a child. Dr. Czeskleba was their family doctor. David fell off of the gate and shattered his hip when he was three. The county commissioner took David in his car to the Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City. David was in traction for six or eight weeks. Clayton Czeskleba ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Sisler Clinic ; Children's Hospital ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; county commissioner ; Shawnee (Okla.) Medical care 0 2393 Church Regan Siler 
 ; Right. And, so, that's who you remember seeing. Um, so then you you mentioned that growing up, you attended the Holiness Church. Do you have much memory of like, what a service was like, or maybe what was your favorite part of church?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I think we traveled with others. They had youth nights. You know, you'd go to other churches like Burnett Wick Mission (ph) and Highway Mission and Paden, and a few churches around here.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David attended the Bristow Holiness Church as a child. He says they attended youth nights at other area churches (Paden, Highway Mission and Burnett Mission Church.) He also attended the camp meeting that was north of town. Church ; Bristow Holiness Church ; Burnett Mission Holiness Church ; Highway Mission ; Paden Holiness Church ; Paden (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) Church 0 2443 Holidays Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right. Um, so what were holidays like with with your family, for instance, tell me, what a typical Christmas was like for your family when you were younger? Do you remember?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, it would evolve around food. Mom made sure we had food, and, usually, a big spread, and 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; That was the big 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Multiple desserts.
 ; David says that their family holidays revolved around food. His mother made a big spread with multiple desserts. Gifts were not a big part of Christmas for them. He does remember his sister giving him some comic book hero underwear one year. David remembers Easter and Thanksgiving also being a big deal. Holidays ; Christmas ; Thanksgiving ; Easter ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett Holidays 0 2551 Career Dreams Regan Siler 
 ; Um, do you remember as a child ever thinking about what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, I really didn't spend even when I went off to college, I didn't.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; You still didn't know. So, even when you were little, you didn't think, oh, I want to be a veterinarian? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No, never, any of that.
 ; David didn't really think about what he wanted to be when he grew up. He says even when he went off to college that he didn't know. David ended up getting his degree in organizational analysis, which was systems approach to personnel management. College ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Stacey Lynn Shields ; Microsoft Excel (Computer file) Career 0 2658 Father, William Dotson Barnett David Barnett 
 ; Well, it was kind of interesting. Didn't really talk about family history and dad's issues, other than mom took us to see him when she could, until around 1985 when we was in the 80 in her early 80s, she talked about it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; So, you didn't know?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I didn't know a lot. I mean
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Is that something you want to talk about in this interview, I mean?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; It doesn't matter.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David's father wasn't around when David was growing up. He was institutionalized in late 1949 and was a ward of the state. He had run off to California and they brought him back. David was able to work things out to get his father moved to Rainbow Nursing Home in Bristow in the 1980's. David's mother was also in Rainbow. William Dotson Barnett ; Syble Marie Horn Barnett ; California ; Elk City (Okla.) ; Dale Dickens ; Department of Human Services ; Ada (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; Bonita Bishop ; Goldie Stice ; Dementia ; Creoks ; Schizophrenia ; Herbert Barnett Father 0 3391 College Regan Siler 
 ; Yes, I understand. Well, well, is it alright if we circle back a little bit to your college life? Because we, we kind of skipped past that a little bit, too. Um, so you decided to go to OSU? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; That took about five years, you said, to get, get through that. Um, did you enjoy your experience at OSU?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, I attended as many athletic events as I could. You know, of course, back then, it came with the you didn't have to pay extra,
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Right, right.
 ; David attended OSU for college. He went there for five years. David attended many athletic events while in college. Oklahoma State University ; Champlain Station ; Community Bank College 0 3513 Jobs Regan Siler 
 ; You just, you just tell us, you can start from, from all your jobs if you want to.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I worked down there during the winter I worked, but then the summer, I worked for the Turnpike Authority.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Where they was resurfacing a quarter of each of the Turner Turnpike. And, the first two summers I worked in the scale house, weighing out trucks for the Turnpike Authority, and then the summer, the fall, but when we got married, I worked on the maintenance crew until December, I mean, [indecipherable]. And then in the spring, I went to work and I laid carpet with Mr. McKay. I went to school, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we laid carpet Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And that was about the time the carpet mill went out. So, there was people that bought a lot of there was some three different colors of shag carpet.
 ; David worked for the Turnpike Authority. He also laid carpet with Mr. McKay. He worked for Cummings Construction too. Later he applied for UPS and got the job out of 60 applicants. David received a call in 1974 from Arthur Foster. He went to work at the bank and basically received a fifty percent pay cut from UPS. He was at the bank from 1974 to 1980. David's brothers had started an oil service business called Barnett Operations. By April of 1982 they had 52 employees. By 1985, the oilfield business was going south, and David went back to the bank. Turnpike Authority ; Cummings Construction ; United Parcel Service ; Stillwater (Okla.) ; Arthur Foster ; Barnett Operating ; Barnett Power Tongs ; Penn Square ; Doy Holderfield Jobs 0 3838 Bank Regan Siler 
 ; In the oil field. I bet, I bet. And, so, then he went back to the bank, so tell me about the bank, since that's definitely kind of a Bristow icon. Tell me about your time at the bank and what that was like. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, I became cashier, and then I was trained to be a loan officer, and and the cashier left that was there and, and I took the cashier position back, because cashiers were harder to find than loan officers so, so I was actually a cashier with three different times.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And you were there a total of 30 years? Is that right? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, I was there from '85 until the end of '20.
 ; David went back to work at the bank in 1985. He became a cashier. He then was trained to be a loan officer and did that for a time. David was with Community Bank from 1985 until the end of 2020. David still has minority ownership of the bank. Bristow (Okla.) ; Community Bank ; George Krumme ; Williams Company ; E.F. Hutton ; Dorcas Kelly ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Sooner Southwest ; Security First National ; Hugo (Okla.) ; First National Bank ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Poteau (Okla.) ; United Way ; Bristow Chamber ; Park Board Bank 0 4244 Church Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, maybe that's what it was that Stacey had mentioned. Okay, so you're, it's obvious that you're very community involved, and especially like through church. Which you attend First Church of God now? Right? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Correct. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And how long have you been, how long have you been there?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Basically, since it came in '74.
 ; David attends the First Church of God in Bristow. He has been there since 1974. Stacey Lynn Shields ; First Church of God ; Nazarene Church Church 0 4270 Wife, Ellen Louise Propst Barnett Regan Siler 
 ; I know you'd mentioned, and, and while we're, we can't get out of this without talking about your family, because I know your family is a super important to you. So, can you tell me what your spouse's full name is, and where did you meet her? 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Ellen Louise Propst [Barnett] and met her at school.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; At OSU?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; No at Bristow.
 ; David met his wife at school in Bristow. She was shy but spotted David first. Her father was Noel Propst, and he owned the service station where Subway currently is located. David and Ellen were together for about two years before marriage. They were married in August of 1970. Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Oklahoma State University ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Noel Propst ; Phillips station ; Subway ; Jeep automobile wife 0 4388 Wedding Regan Siler 
 ; I'm going to get you in trouble, aren't I? Um, so what was your did you have just like a normal wedding, or did,?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; And it was at the Nazarene church?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Right. And it was a day that was one of the hottest days of the year. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, gosh!
 ; David and Ellen were married in August of 1970. They held the ceremony at the Nazarene Church. It was one of the hottest days of the year. Nazarene Church ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; Stillwater (Okla.) Wedding 0 4444 Early Marriage Regan Siler 
 ; Well, so can you tell me, like, what your early years of marriage was like? Was it? Tell me about it.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Just enjoyable. I mean, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Did you struggle? Was it?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yeah, wasn't any, you know, I, like I said, I worked on the turnpike maintenance, and she didn't work that fall, and then worked on laying carpet, you know. So, we didn't have a lot.
 ; David says that the early years of their marriage were enjoyable. He says they didn't have a lot but that they didn't know that then. Marriage Marriage 0 4489 Homes After Marriage Regan Siler 
 ; So, you lived, did you live in Stillwater together for?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, when we first got married, we had lived in the Corey's (ph) little rent house behind their house up at 10th and something just before you go in the new edition. Last little place for you go into the new edition. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Cute little house. She still talks about it, but the Judge Corey (ph) and his wife kept it up nice and and then Noel helped us, or bought a trailer for us, and we moved when we moved to Stillwater the following year. And, so, we lived in it, and then when we moved back to Bristow, three years later, the trailer is still sitting out there on the five mile road south of Kathy's [Kathy Bacon] house.
 ; David and Ellen lived in the Corey's little rent house on 10th street after marriage. Then Noel bought them a trailer and they moved to Stillwater the following year. Three years later, they moved back to Bristow. David and Ellen built a house in 1977 or 1978 on South Hickory. Stillwater (Okla.) ; Noel Propst ; Kathy Bacon ; Ellen Lousie Propst Barnett ; Stacey Lynn Shields Homes 0 4571 Children Regan Siler 
 ; South Hickory, huh? Um, well, and since you mentioned your kids, tell me, tell me how many children you have and what their full names are.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Stacey Lynn Shields and David Blake Barnett. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; David Blake Barnett. Okay, and I have Stacey's birth date as 11/1/76 and Blake's as 8/18/79.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Correct.
 ; David and Ellen have two children. They have a daughter, Stacey Lynn Shields and a son, David Blake Barnett. David says Stacey was probably six months old before he really started enjoying being a father. Stacey Lynn Shields ; David Blake Barnett ; Freddie's ; Joseph's Children 0 4739 Grandchildren Regan Siler 
 ; Oh, my goodness, okay, well, and, so, while we're still on your your family, I know you have grandkids, so tell me how many grandkids you have and what their names are.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; I have six grandkids. Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver, Barnett and Talus Barnett. And I have a bonus Riley Walker, grandson.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; David and Helen have six grandchildren. Their names are Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver Barnett and Talus Barnett. They have a bonus grandson, Riley Walker. Chapman Shields ; Cooper Shields ; Cyler Shields ; Bryson Barnett ; Carver Barnett ; Talus Barnett ; Riley Walker ; Noel Propst ; Tony Bacon ; Lowell Propst ; Lions Club ; Industrial Authority ; Stacey Lynn Shields ; Chamber of Commerce ; Main Street Grandchildren 0 4911 Bank History David Barnett 
 ; At some point, maybe we might go over some of the bank history that I remember.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay, well, go ahead, go right ahead. 
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, when we came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme's dad for a few months down at Krumme Oil Company.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Okay.
 ; When David and Ellen came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme at the Krumme Oil Company. Eventually the two Krumme brothers ended up basically being 100% shareholders of the bank. Now Sooner Southwest own four banks. Bristow (Okla.) ; Ellen Louise Propst Barnett ; George Krumme ; Krumme Oil Company ; Arthur Foster ; Debbie Farha Sr. ; Community Bank ; Harlan Krumme ; TP McAdams ; McAdams Pipe and Supply ; David Loeffler ; Walmart ; Roger Collins ; Anadarko Bank ; Security First National ; Heavener (Okla.) ; Oklahoma Capital Bank ; Sooner Southwest Bank 0 5278 Most Important Invention Regan Siler 
 ; Or I think they may be fun. I don't know. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Probably the cell phone if I was guessing most 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Good and bad.
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Yes, yeah, right, yes.
 ; David thinks that the cell phone is the most important invention in his lifetime. Invention ; Cell Phone Invention 0 5300 How the World is Different Regan Siler 
 ; I can't disagree with that answer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Well, because of the cell phone and the access to information, good information and bad information, it's completely different because, you know, some things that would not have been, you know, 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 
 ; Available?
 ; 
 ; David Barnett 
 ; Right. You know, sometimes things are just better left unknown.
 ; David says the cell phone has changed the world so much in his lifetime. He says the bank had recently acquired their first computer when he returned in 1985. He says it was a $20,000 computer that took 5 to 10 minutes just to boot up. Now we basically carry small computers around in our pockets as smart phones. Computer ; Cell Phone World 0 MP4 David's parents, William Dotson Barnett and Syble Marie Horn Barnett, were sharecroppers. David, the youngest of seven children, attended Bristow schools and worked various jobs, including at List Motors and Mancel Murphy's gas station. He attended OSU, earning a degree in organizational analysis. David worked at Community Bank for 30 years, starting in 1974, and co-founded Barnett Operations, an oil field service business. He also served on several community boards and attended First Church of God since 1974. David shared about his wife Ellen and two children, Stacey and Blake. He also talked about his role in the community, including his involvement with the Industrial Authority and Community Bank. David reflected on the impact of technology, particularly the cell phone, and emphasized the importance of integrity and commitment in family and work. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.329 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is September 5, 2024 and I'm sitting here with David Barnett at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and his history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:24.329 --> 00:00:26.129 David Leroy Barnett. 00:00:26.129 --> 00:00:28.559 And do I have permission to record this interview? 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:29.160 Yes. 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:34.259 Okay. Can you tell me when and where you were born? 00:00:34.259 --> 00:00:42.750 I was born in Bristow, I believe, at the Sisler Clinic in April 15, 1950. 00:00:42.750 --> 00:00:53.280 1950, okay. Can you tell me about the people in your family? Um, let's start with your parents. Can you tell me their full names? 00:00:53.280 --> 00:01:08.370 William Dotson Barnett, born in November of 1920. Syble Marie Horn Barnett, born in January of 1920. I said on Dotson, did I say '20? 00:01:08.370 --> 00:01:10.079 Is it 1914? 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:10.319 Yes. 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:12.569 Because I have, I have for your dad. 00:01:12.569 --> 00:01:14.909 I was thinking '14 and said '20. 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:21.870 I have your dad as 11/12/1914 and then I have your mom as 1/15/1920. 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:22.109 Right. 00:01:22.109 --> 00:01:23.069 Does that sound right? 00:01:23.069 --> 00:01:23.459 Yes. 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:28.500 Okay. And what type of work did your parents do? 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:50.340 Well, most of their life, they were sharecroppers with my grandparents. My dad and all of his brothers and sisters started out as sharecroppers with their parents, and my dad was the last of the siblings to drop out of the sharecropping in 1947. 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:55.530 Okay. So, has your family always been here? Or do you know when they came? 00:01:55.530 --> 00:02:22.169 They came around the time I was born. I was last of seven children, and the only one born in Bristow. They lived down south of Holdenville. The last place was south of Holdenville, actually south of Spalding, across the south Canadian River, and my brothers and sisters had to walk across the swinging bridge to get to the school bus. 00:02:22.169 --> 00:02:26.129 Oh, my goodness. So, how many and you have, how many siblings? 00:02:26.129 --> 00:02:27.930 Have three brothers and three sisters. 00:02:27.930 --> 00:02:29.069 And you're the baby. 00:02:29.069 --> 00:02:29.789 I'm the baby. 00:02:29.789 --> 00:02:36.870 You're the baby. Okay, well, can you tell me, can you tell me all their names, just so we'll have that on record? 00:02:36.870 --> 00:03:01.439 Yes. Charlene Fairchild is the oldest. Evelyn Cheatwood is the second child. Darryl Dotson Barnett was the third child. Ralph Barnett was the fourth child and Jimmy Dale Barnett was the fifth child. And then Marilyn Hight, it was my baby sister, but she's still older than me. 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.780 Right, right, and then there and then there was you. 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:04.770 And then there was me. 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:12.150 Okay, um, so when you were growing up, did you have much family that lived nearby you? 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:28.949 Yeah, a lot of the family lived around here, but primarily our my Grandma Horn and her and Grandpa Ben were separated, so she lived with us till she passed when I was about 10-years-old. 00:03:28.949 --> 00:03:31.560 Okay. And that would have been your mom's parents? 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:32.610 My mom's mom. 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:47.370 Okay, okay. Um, well, let's talk about your childhood a little bit. Um, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played as a youngster? 00:03:47.370 --> 00:03:57.810 No. There was not a lot to the family was dying, living in a 2-1/2 room house, was you played outside with whatever you could find. 00:03:57.810 --> 00:04:09.180 Right, right. Well, I had talked to Stacey [Stacey Barnett Shields] a little bit, and she said that it was like you were a teenager before you had, like, indoor plumbing? 00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:31.230 Yes. When my, actually, we got running water at the house in the early 60s. My brother in law, Conrad Fairchild, came back, and Ralph was on leave, and they put a pump and a well house on the well. Up to that point, you pulled it with a rope. 00:04:31.230 --> 00:04:38.250 Oh, my goodness. So, there was nine people living in...how big would you say your house was? 00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:57.810 Well, when, when granddad died in '64, in '65 mom added on two rooms. And after taking out closets, those two rooms that were the living room and the bedroom in the shotgun house, were not huge bedrooms./ 00:04:57.810 --> 00:04:58.470 Right. 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:18.000 So, I would say 15x15 or 16x16 size rooms. In the kitchen, I remember is it had a the dining room table. When we sit down to eat, you slid into the seats. There wasn't, the kitchen was not big enough. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.220 So, was it like a bench that you sat on? 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:22.319 Well, no, it was chairs, but 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:23.699 You just had to scoot in? 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:26.610 Yes, it wasn't a huge. 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:27.480 Right. 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:35.639 It became the bathroom and the laundry room when she added on, and that's when we got indoor plumbing in '65. 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:42.959 In '65. And then Stacey also mentioned that whenever you had company, you had to sleep outside? 00:05:42.959 --> 00:06:15.540 Well, we slept outside a majority of the summer because we didn't have air conditioning and yeah, so I don't remember what year it was, but my aunt and uncle, who also had seven kids, moved back from California and stayed with us most of one summer. And, so, it was just about 10 years ago, Ralph laughed and said it was a good night when you got to sleep in the back seat of a car. 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:17.399 Oh, my gosh! 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:18.629 So, yes. 00:06:18.629 --> 00:06:22.410 So, what was your bedding? I mean, like, what did you sleep on when you had to sleep outside? 00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:27.209 Rollaways. We had a couple of rollaways that, you know, would fold up and be in the house. 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:29.519 Did you get eat up by mosquitoes? 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:35.189 Probably. I don't remember them being as bad as now, but, yeah. 00:06:35.189 --> 00:06:38.879 Oh my gosh. And you, I guess, you didn't worry about, like, animals or? 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:57.810 Well, yeah, I wasn't a fraidy cat, so, yes, I did. One of the most, most memorable night is the cow got out and I felt something up over my face, breathing about three inches away from my face. Needless to say, I was scared to death. 00:06:57.810 --> 00:06:59.040 Oh, and it was a cow? 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:05.009 It was the cow, yeah, but it was so close I couldn't tell what it was. It was big and scary. 00:07:05.009 --> 00:07:12.269 Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Um, well, did you have chores that you were expected to do as a youngster? 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:30.300 Well, yeah, a lot, not a lot, but we did have a milk cow, and I got up before we went to school and milked. And mom sometimes milked in the evening, because she worked like five until one or something. 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.069 And, so, you said you were 00:07:32.069 --> 00:07:36.870 Mom worked in a restaurant cooking, or cafes around Bristow, cooking. 00:07:36.870 --> 00:07:37.379 Okay. 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:38.699 Until she retired. 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:43.290 Okay. So, have you lived in Bristow your entire life? 00:07:43.290 --> 00:07:43.709 Yes. 00:07:43.709 --> 00:07:44.009 Okay. 00:07:44.009 --> 00:07:53.009 Except for the time that we lived in Stillwater for a year after I graduated from OSU from 1970 until '74. 00:07:53.009 --> 00:07:53.430 Okay. 00:07:53.430 --> 00:07:57.089 Lived in actually '71 to '74. 00:07:57.089 --> 00:08:05.579 So, whenever you were a kid, did you have like friends that came over and played, or did you mainly just play with your siblings and cousins? 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:11.339 Well, there was typically kids lived down in the bottom of a hill. 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:13.019 So, where was your house at? 00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:26.069 Out on the path, on the road, at the dead end road past the old Assembly of God church. You go over there and go all the way to the dead end. It was the next to the last house. 00:08:26.069 --> 00:08:31.980 Oh, okay. And how and so, how long was that like your family home for how long? 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:46.799 Well, Mom bought it off the Blackwells. The Blackwells moved to town, and she purchased it when they moved to Bristow. Would assume that it was probably in late '49. 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.009 Okay. 00:08:50.009 --> 00:08:59.100 Blackwells moved over on Seventh Street, and Ruby Ritchie, her parents, that's where Ruby and Ruby 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:00.389 Oh, okay! I didn't know that. 00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:07.710 Yeah, Ruby Ritchie, there the Blackwells were pretty close. We were more like cousins. 00:09:07.710 --> 00:09:08.610 Right, right. 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:09.509 So, yeah. 00:09:09.509 --> 00:09:13.379 So, was the, was the refinery and everything out there at that time. 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:16.200 The refinery finally closed in 1958. 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.200 So, it was out there for part of the time you were there. 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:33.059 There was the tank farm was there for a few years past that, the big tanks like over at Cushing, but there was, I think, seven big tanks out there, directly south, across from us. 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:41.610 Okay, um, did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child that you can remember? 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:43.320 Not in particular. 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:50.610 So, like, what did you like, what were some things that you did as kids? Like, I knew you had to play outside. So,what, what were some things that you would do? 00:09:50.610 --> 00:10:05.909 Well, you tried to build toys out of scraps the best you could. You know, I remember making little hay bales to go on the truck. 00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:08.250 You had to use your imagination is what you're saying. 00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:16.620 That and the scrap the down on the tank farm, as we called it, there was a dump, and people dumped stuff in there. 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:17.610 You found treasures. 00:10:17.610 --> 00:10:40.830 So, we found some scraps that worked. My first bicycle was built out of scraps from, from down there, and rode it to town a lot of times. No fenders. So, when it was raining, you know, you didn't want to ride too much. 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:46.620 Okay, do you remember collecting anything as a child? 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:47.639 No, not really. 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:54.840 Not really? Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I guess you attended Bristow for grades one through twelve? 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:55.350 Yes. 00:10:55.350 --> 00:11:01.080 Okay, um, do you remember having any influential teachers? 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:08.460 Oh, I had a lot, you know, probably in the most influential was Carolyn Foster. 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:10.559 A lot of people mention her. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.710 Well, hers was more direct influence than others. 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:16.820 Right. 00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:42.860 I went to work in the seventh, eighth grade, an hour a day for List Motors across where the south end of Bolin, Mainer Ford is now, and worked for him for an hour a day. And then my last three years in high school, I worked for Mancel Murphy. Most of the time, I worked 40 hours a week. 00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:44.629 Wow! 00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:50.090 Five hours a day, Monday through Friday, and then 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:54.470 So, what did you do that young working for List Motors? 00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:56.990 Just sweeping the floor and cleaning up. 00:11:56.990 --> 00:12:00.470 Stuff like that and then, so, what did you do at the other job? 00:12:00.470 --> 00:12:09.059 For Mancel? It was the gas station down on Fifth Street, Champlain gas station, where Fifth and Main. 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:09.899 Okay. 00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:15.659 For the repair shop, or, you know, it's been a golf cart. 00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:20.789 Okay, yeah, right, right. Okay. So, that was a, that was a gas station? 00:12:20.789 --> 00:12:21.269 Yes. 00:12:21.269 --> 00:12:23.070 Okay. 00:12:23.070 --> 00:12:25.980 Noel [Noel Propst] had the gas station at Fourth and Main. 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:26.370 Right. 00:12:26.370 --> 00:12:27.929 It was a Phillips 66. 00:12:27.929 --> 00:12:28.440 Right. 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:35.639 He had, originally, had with Bill Farha, Sr. had the location the Champion Sation. 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:44.070 Okay, so, you work there for 40 hours a week as a young person, plus went to school? 00:12:44.070 --> 00:12:44.669 Yes. 00:12:44.669 --> 00:12:47.100 Wow, that's impressive! 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:51.299 But, I don't know if it was impressive, but it was reality. 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:54.029 Well, yeah, I guess you do what you have to do, huh? 00:12:54.029 --> 00:13:08.669 Yes. And still got up and milk the cow. Mom didn't sell the milk cow until we went off to college. That's my favorite story. I still got up before school to milk the cow or work every day. 00:13:08.669 --> 00:13:21.419 It's kind of like my dad never got a riding lawn mower until after we left home. We always had two push mowers. Well, do you remember how you got to school? 00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:22.590 Walked most of the time. 00:13:22.590 --> 00:13:24.840 Walked? Okay. 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:38.490 That's kind of like selling the milk cow. The school bus started coming up to the end of the road the very week that I got my car, and I was sixteen. So, up to that time all of the kids walked. 00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:39.000 Always had to walk. 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:53.879 Well, we could go down and catch the bus down there. There was an old freight dock down there, where the road that goes up to McDonald's, right behind the road that goes back right behind the where they're building the new Casey's. 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:54.000 Uh huh. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:54.240 Oh! 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:00.179 Right on the east side of that there was a freight dock. And we could go down and catch the bus right there. 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:07.000 But, you know, we could start later and get there quicker by walking up the railroad track. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:07.080 Yeah, I can't remember which ones, but yes, a couple of them, yes. And then last couple of years, I was on, I was a treasurer, or whatever, for the, I don't remember what it's called now. 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:32.740 Right. Okay. Um, were you a member of any clubs or organizations when you were in school? 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:35.830 Well, so I mean, did you like school? Did you enjoy school? 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:36.850 Mostly, yeah. 00:14:36.850 --> 00:14:39.220 Did you have a favorite subject? 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:44.080 Well, probably math because it was easiest for me. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.190 Right. 00:14:46.190 --> 00:14:55.159 My best math teacher was in middle school, Tom Miller. He was the best math teacher including college whoI ever had. 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:55.610 Really? 00:14:55.610 --> 00:15:08.899 And he was the hardest, by far, of any teacher, math teacher I ever had. Had a lot of good math teachers, but Tom Miller was the, was the best math teacher. 00:15:08.899 --> 00:15:10.970 I probably could have used Tom Miller. 00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:18.710 Well, you might not have. Maybe it was a tie on hard between him and Neva Gurley. 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:19.490 Okay. 00:15:19.490 --> 00:15:20.570 She was tough. 00:15:20.570 --> 00:15:21.799 She was tough also? 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:31.190 Yeah, but he was, I think, a better teacher, but she was a really strong math teacher. That was in elementary school. 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:32.659 Right, okay. 00:15:32.659 --> 00:15:46.259 And then Carolyn [Carolyn Foster] asked me when I got in high school if I thought about a career in banking. And at that time, I didn't. I didn't even have a checking account until I got my car. I had to, you know, a car loan. But 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:51.820 So, did you have any idea what you wanted to do at that time? Or was that kind of like, what in the world, whenever she asked you that? 00:15:51.820 --> 00:16:05.200 No, I, for some reason, I decided that I wanted to get a college education. None of my brothers spent much time in high school. Most of them dropped out. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.799 Really? 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.230 Early years of high school. 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:11.590 And just, like, went to work or? 00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:15.789 Work and/or goofing around. 00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:18.399 Okay. 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:24.580 All three of my sisters graduated from high school, but none went to college, 00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:27.480 So, you just felt driven to do that? That was something you wanted? 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.159 Yeah, for whatever, I have no idea why. 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.600 You're not sure why. Okay. 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.250 And I went to OSU, so. 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:39.919 Yeah, okay, do you did you enjoy reading? And if so, like, what types of books did you like to read? 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:40.000 No, there wasn't much time for reading, and I really wasn't much into reading. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.500 Okay. 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:46.899 Learning other ways, but yeah, not reading. 00:16:46.899 --> 00:16:49.960 You were more into mathing. 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.090 No, I just, math because it was easier. 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:53.049 Easier, okay. 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:55.299 You know, it was one thing you could accomplish, so. 00:16:55.299 --> 00:17:12.190 Right, okay, um, well, we've talked a little bit about the house you grew up in. I would like to kind of circle back to that. Um, obviously, if there was at least nine people living there, you probably had to share a room with a lot of siblings, I'm guessing. 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:12.730 Yes. 00:17:12.730 --> 00:17:13.000 Okay. 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.859 Yeah, well, there was a bed in the living room. That was one of the pieces of furniture in the living room. 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:18.670 Was a bed. 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:20.380 Mom and grandma slept in it. 00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:21.450 Oh, my goodness. 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:29.000 Then, generally, I think they put a, at night, put one of the rollaway beds in, in the living room. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:37.970 I don't even see how, in which, I know, you know, probably back then, just probably didn't have as much stuff as what we have these days, of, like, where you'd even put anything with that many people. 00:17:37.970 --> 00:17:47.180 We didn't even really have clothes. There wasn't much stuff. 00:17:47.180 --> 00:17:54.650 Yeah, there just wasn't much stuff. Okay, well, what were meal times like for your family? 00:17:54.650 --> 00:18:04.519 Well, I don't know. My oldest sister got married when I was five. She had her first child by the time, I was an uncle, by the time I was six. 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:05.599 Oh, wow! 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:20.089 My sister, Evelyn, is the one and Grandma Horn, pretty much, took care of me, you know. And then mom was there of an evening, so meals were usually simple, you know. 00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:23.960 But did everybody like sit down at the table, or were you guys kind of scattered? 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:36.049 Well, by the time, you know, meals were a big deal, then, to get one was great. I mean, we didn't go hungry, but I'm just saying, it was a big deal. 00:18:36.049 --> 00:18:37.079 Times were tight. 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:49.049 Yes, and yeah, I think when we're younger, we sit down at the table pretty much in order to get your share. 00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:55.920 So, did you have to help with meals? Did you have to do the cleanup? Did your mom teach you how to cook? 00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.180 I don't remember doing much of the cooking or cleaning when I was younger. 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.099 Is it because you were the baby? 00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:09.279 So others said. Not my opinion, siblings opinion. 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:14.829 Right. Well, do you remember having, like a favorite meal that your mom cooked? 00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:16.569 Probably fried chicken. 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:17.289 Fried chicken. 00:19:17.289 --> 00:19:20.650 We, typically, only got meat on Sundays, 00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:21.880 So, that was a treat. 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:23.230 Oh, yeah. 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:28.750 And then what about did you have any sort of favorite desserts or anything that she fixed? 00:19:28.750 --> 00:19:47.529 Yeah, apricot pie, probably. I like chocolate cake, but it was too sweet. It I did, unfortunately, I grew out of it, but I couldn't eat a lot of sweets when I was young. Well, I mean, I would eat dill pickles with the chocolate cake because I liked it so much, but to kill the sweetness. 00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:48.099 Oh, my goodness. 00:19:48.099 --> 00:19:55.779 So, that sounds really, really weird, but it was, you know, I remember I could only eat, I liked pecan pie, but two bites and I was done. 00:19:55.779 --> 00:20:01.480 So, I know that you're kind of known for cooking. Did you inherit that from your mom, you think? 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:12.380 Well, I think so. I really didn't start cooking a lot until after Ellen and I got married in 1970, so I was 20 years old and stuff. 00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:18.589 And your mom worked in cafes around town, different cafes. Was she known at any I mean? 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:19.130 Oh, yes. 00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:19.789 Okay. 00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:32.029 Yeah, it was, she was one of the real good cooks. Fact is, I don't know whether she invented the recipe, but the recipe for the Lions Club pancake batter. 00:20:32.029 --> 00:20:33.710 I was going to ask you about that. 00:20:33.710 --> 00:20:47.480 Passed from me to her or that's from her to me. But unlike today, I had to apprentice 10 years before she would let me do the pancake batter on my own. 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:49.809 She had to make sure you were worthy. 00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:59.650 Well, and that, yes, that came in handy years later, because we were still doing it at the Highway Cafe, and the Highway Cafe burned. 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:00.210 Okay. 00:21:00.210 --> 00:21:30.420 Well, the recipe was four heaping sifters of flour. Alright, as you know, there's different sized sifters. It turns out, it was probably a three cup sifter, heaping made it four cups. Turns out four cup there's exactly 16 cups of flour and five pounds of flour. So it's basically five pounds of flour and a gallon of milk. But we did, that wasn't the way you put it together from her. 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:32.369 Oh, my goodness! 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:39.240 But I knew enough about the recipe that I could convert it, and so we've still been carrying on with the recipe. 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:53.250 That's cool. That's neat! Stacey had told me to ask you about the Lions pancake recipe and how that, how that came about. So, she worked at the Highway Cafe, and then 00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:58.559 I worked lunches at the Highway Cafe for my lunch in eighth grade. 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.690 So, you worked there to get your lunch? 00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:27.839 Yeah, they fed the students, and I work, fed, I took the students orders and then, then got my lunch for serving the orders for the students. So, the last 15 years or so she worked was at the Highway Cafe. Might have been a little longer than that. Probably the last 20. Before that, she worked for Thelma Groom (ph) at the Harvey House, which is the part of the building where Dr Schafer's office is. 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.450 Okay, okay, at the Harvey House. 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:33.690 His, his office was where Ford Hardware used to be. 00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:57.359 Well, it seems like there was a lot more, so I moved here in the early 80s, and it seems like Bristow has seen a lot of change in from then to now, but it seems like back prior to that, that there was a lot of really neat stores and the places to eat, and 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:04.680 There was a lot of cafes. There wasn't really restaurants. They were, you know, 25 foot wide cafes. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.269 Right. 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:16.160 Yeah, the Highway Cafe was owned by the Bush's, and they owned the locker plant right next door to it. 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:22.970 So, is that where, because my husband's grandpa was Duan Stiner, is that? 00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:23.180 Yes. 00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:23.990 Where he 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:24.470 He bought it. 00:23:24.470 --> 00:23:24.920 Okay. 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.470 He bought it from, he didn't bought it from the Bush's. 00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:29.750 Okay, well, that's interesting. 00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:30.349 Yes. 00:23:30.349 --> 00:23:34.000 Okay, um, let's see. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:48.430 But back in the day, the, we would get a whole hog, and they would grind the sausage. We had fresh sausage for, for pancake breakfast. Where now we use the FFA sausage. 00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:50.349 Right. 00:23:50.349 --> 00:24:01.000 Because we actually moved the date up and before the FFA hogs sale from after the premium sale. 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:02.859 To where you can use the sausage. 00:24:02.859 --> 00:24:04.180 Could buy one and use it. 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:05.289 Oh, well, that's good. 00:24:05.289 --> 00:24:16.890 And after the Highway Cafe went out, the Stubblefields grounded for us for a few years. It's like Jimmy Dean sausage, whole hog! 00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:36.779 Right. Um, well, thinking back to like town life growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities, as like, you know, say, during your school age, probably more like teenage years. Like, I'm thinking like Western Heritage Days, or day camp, parades, county fairs, like, can you tell me about any of that? 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:39.539 Western Heritage Days. I never attended day camp. 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:44.099 Okay, so tell me about Western Heritage Days. What was that like for you? 00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.589 Well, it was a big deal. I mean, you know, it was a lot more people in town, and lasted a lot longer. 00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:50.220 Right. 00:24:50.220 --> 00:25:00.150 And it was a big deal even after I moved back and went to work at the bank, you know, there was, it was a lot bigger. 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:01.470 Right. 00:25:01.470 --> 00:25:07.380 Well, and many is there wasn't as many people had air conditioners, so the hot August didn't bother them like it does now. 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:11.519 Right. We're soft now! 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.259 Yeah, exactly! 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:20.930 Okay, um, well, what were some of the biggest and most popular businesses around town that you remember? 00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:25.579 Well, Strong's Hardware had been here for Eddie Strong had Strong's Hardware. 00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:27.559 Okay. 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:40.250 Didn't really walk up and down Main Street a lot. We went to the Holiness Church when I was younger, so we walked all the way down to railroad track and then to church. 00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:45.140 So, was it located at the same location that it is now? Okay. 00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:49.430 Generally, somebody gave us a ride home, but we, typically, walked. 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:59.930 Had to walk there. Okay, I was going to ask if you had a favorite place to eat out, but I'm thinking maybe that didn't happen a lot, or it was your mom cooking for you. 00:25:59.930 --> 00:26:18.079 Well, we didn't eat a lot. Probably, when I'd go to the doctor in Tulsa, we'd sometimes get a hamburger at the, it was over 20 near 21st and Riverside on 21st near Riverside, this big hamburger place. 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.000 I almost think someone else in a recent interview told me about the same place. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.440 Yeah, can't remember what. 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.539 Oh, shoot. 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:33.940 I don't, you know, Burger King was popular back when in when I was younger or not, Burger King, that down on the 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:34.000 Hamburger King? 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:49.329 Hamburger King was popular, but I never ate a hamburger there. And, then, Jack Abraham had there on Fifth Street, where the, basically, the empty lot is next to Shooter Shop. 00:26:49.329 --> 00:26:50.710 Yes. 00:26:50.710 --> 00:27:04.630 Jack Abraham had a diner that served a lot of coffee, you know, that was more my teenage years. But I don't know how long he'd been there. 00:27:04.630 --> 00:27:05.170 Okay. 00:27:05.170 --> 00:27:06.529 But 00:27:06.529 --> 00:27:15.980 Well, did you have any favorite places to hang out as a teenager? Like, say, when you started driving and you were hanging out with your friends. Like, where were some of places you would go? 00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:17.990 Well, we went to Teen Town on Saturday night. 00:27:17.990 --> 00:27:19.309 So, what is teen town? 00:27:19.309 --> 00:27:34.640 It was down there, probably where the empty lot is, is it on Ninth Street, on the north side of the street, across from 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.210 So, where the where the Historical Society's lot is? 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:49.250 Yeah, but it was on past the alley between Historical Society's lot and where the housing is there on Ninth Street, there was a building, Teen Town. 00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:51.000 Teen Town, tell me about that? 00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:07.769 Well, some of the local kids had bands that played in there sometimes, and there was music. Lester Brace's wife was one of the, she was there every time the doors opened, and kind of kept it going, so. 00:28:07.769 --> 00:28:20.670 Well, in all the interviews I've had, no one has mentioned that. I find that odd. So, it was just a place for kids to hang out. And it, and it worked, I guess, there wasn't mischief or? 00:28:20.670 --> 00:28:33.359 Well, I don't remember there being any unusual mischief, because it was Teen Town, but you had to have somebody like Mrs. Brace over it. And there was another lady, but I can't, for whatever reason I can't remember. 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.000 So, so there was actually people like kids bands there that would play? 00:28:38.000 --> 00:29:07.789 Yes, one of the bands, the two Abraham brothers, Jack and Bobby, Mike Bishop and Buddy, Buddy. His dad had the garage there on Fifth. It was before 00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:08.210 Farris? 00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:09.410 Farris, Buddy Farris. 00:29:09.410 --> 00:29:10.579 Okay. 00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:12.680 Yes. 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:13.910 And, so, they had a band? 00:29:13.910 --> 00:29:19.640 They had a band, and they tried to revive it years later. 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:20.779 It didn't work? 00:29:20.779 --> 00:29:42.289 Well, you may want to cut this out. Kattie's mother was a waitress at the old Hamburger King, and The King of Swing. 00:29:42.289 --> 00:29:43.509 Oh, gosh. 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:48.940 Anyway, came through a lot of times. A lot of the big bands and stuff came through because it was on Route 66. 00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.259 Right. 00:29:50.259 --> 00:29:58.029 And, supposedly, on her death bed, she told Kattie that, that he was her father. 00:29:58.029 --> 00:29:58.809 Oh, my goodness! 00:29:58.809 --> 00:30:19.480 And, so, then, Buddy being the grandchild, and then I remember going out to the Elks Lodge when the Abrahams and Buddy, and I don't know whether Mike was in on that group, but they, you know, tried to rekindle their heritage from what they thought was their heritage. 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:20.000 So, well, that's cool. 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.769 I mean, I don't know that any of that as a fact. The reason I said you might want to cut that out. 00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:36.890 Right, right. No. I mean, that's fine. Um, well, do you remember where you got most of your clothes? Did your did your family make it? Did make your clothes? Did you buy your clothes? 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:40.519 No, most of mine if I remember right were hand me downs. 00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:41.269 Hand me downs. 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:42.470 Yes. 00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:46.000 So, did your older siblings get clothes? Or did someone in your family make those? 00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:01.509 I don't remember. Yeah, I think in the younger days, some of them were made, especially the girls. But you'd wear what was available. Don't really remember much how we got them other than 00:31:01.509 --> 00:31:11.319 You just had them. Okay. Well, do you remember your family's first car, what it was? 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.509 Yes, it's a '54 Chevrolet. 00:31:13.509 --> 00:31:17.529 '54 Chevrolet. Did you ever get to take any vacations or anything in it? 00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:18.670 Oh, no. 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:18.910 No. 00:31:18.910 --> 00:31:25.299 See, mom worked 365 days a year. Was rarely off at all. 00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:27.130 So, she just worked all the time. 00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:27.640 Yes. 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.000 Okay, um, do you remember what your first car was? 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:55.539 A '62 Ford Fairlane. Actually, it was probably the '54 Chevy, but that was driving it messed up the front end of it. And that's when I got to '62 Ford Fairlane. And turns out my brother in law fixed the '54 Chevy, and my sister drove it for 20 years. It was, it was a good car. 00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:56.619 It was a good car. 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:29.170 Well, Bill Shattuck's dad, Mama told him to be looking for her car, and he took us on a test drive, and he said,you'll think this is salesman's talk, but you'll have to, actually have to, probably, if you stop at a stop sign, you'll have to roll down the window to tell if the car is still running. And I remember doing that in front of the Baptist Church at Sixth and Chestnut. Is that old six cylinder was just so quiet. 00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:30.329 It was so quiet. 00:32:30.329 --> 00:32:37.710 Yeah, there wasn't a lot of stuff on it. I mean, back in the day, you can't open the hood. You could see a lot of empty space. 00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:45.029 It was, yeah, right. It was pretty basic. Well, do you remember how you purchased it, or, by chance, how much it cost? 00:32:45.029 --> 00:32:51.750 I don't. I remember my car was $800. 00:32:51.750 --> 00:32:53.460 The Ford, the Ford. 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:53.480 The Ford 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:59.180 Fairlane. And how did you did you have to, I guess, work to make those payemtns? 00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:04.789 I was working at Champlin's (ph) so I made the payments, and it was forth-some-dollars a month. 00:33:04.789 --> 00:33:09.000 That's crazy. And then you look at what cars cost now, and it's like, oh my goodness. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:26.880 Well, and then when Ellen I got married, I remember buying a second car. We bought a '61 Chevy, big, biggerChevy. It wasn't an Empala, but it was the next one down, and we gave $100 for it and drove it, like, four or five years. 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.230 Oh, my gosh! 00:33:28.230 --> 00:33:31.500 So, yeah, it was a fine car. 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:33.000 Uh yeah, it sounds like it! 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:41.940 Until we bought a '67 Toyota and and that replaced the Ford Fairlane. 00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:44.170 So, you went with a foreign car, huh? 00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:59.289 Well, it was, it was a good car, good mileage, and, basically, it was built just like the old 50s Chevy underneath. I knew that from servicing so many vehicles down at Champlin, so 00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:02.769 Do you remember who taught you how to drive? 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:26.920 I don't. I remember when granddad passed away, of course, I was 14, and we had his, we inherited his old pickup, but the battery was bad, so we kept it parked on the hill and would let it roll down and start it. And I took mom to work in in that until we bought the '54 Chevy. 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.710 And did you do that before you were actually able to drive? 00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.619 I was 14. 00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:45.840 And the police met us at the, well, they met her at the Highway Cafe every morning to open up. And, you know, I was nervous they was gonna find out about me. I'm sure they knew! 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:55.289 They probably did know. So did you guys, what sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you have a TV or? 00:34:55.289 --> 00:35:06.269 No, I bought the first TV from somebody that came by when, when I was at Champlin, so that would have been '66. 00:35:06.269 --> 00:35:11.289 Oh, man, um, and that was for your family or for 00:35:11.289 --> 00:35:13.539 Everybody was out of the house, basically but me. 00:35:13.539 --> 00:35:14.289 But you. 00:35:14.289 --> 00:35:14.869 Yes. 00:35:14.869 --> 00:35:25.550 And you bought it? So, do you remember any of your favorite programs that you watched on it? Anything stick out to you? 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:31.519 Again, I wasn't there that much, so there wasn't a lot of wasn't a lot of time TV watching. 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:41.570 Right, right. Um. So, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you guys have a family doctor? Did you usually just try to handle stuff at home or? 00:35:41.570 --> 00:35:48.719 We had a family doctor, but mostly, if we had something, we went to Dr. Czeskleba (Clayton Czeskleba) in Tulsa. 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.639 Czeskleba. 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:50.480 Yes. 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.090 Do you know how to spell that? 00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:54.139 Cz something. 00:35:54.139 --> 00:35:57.320 Okay. 00:35:57.320 --> 00:35:57.829 He was at 00:35:57.829 --> 00:35:59.000 So, you went all the way to Tulsa? 00:35:59.000 --> 00:35:59.260 Oh, wow. Okay. 00:35:59.260 --> 00:36:05.809 He was at the Sisler Clinic, yeah, yes. 00:36:05.809 --> 00:36:16.250 I had a major medical emergency when I was three. I fell off of the gate and shattered my hip. 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:17.449 Oh, my goodness! 00:36:17.449 --> 00:36:22.369 And they wouldn't take me at the Sisler Clinic. 00:36:22.369 --> 00:36:24.170 Because it was too serious? 00:36:24.170 --> 00:36:28.369 Well, we didn't have any money. I don't know why, why. I mean at three I don't know why. 00:36:28.369 --> 00:36:29.119 Yeah, okay. 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:42.170 But the county commissioner took me in his car to the Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City, and I was in there and in traction for six or eight weeks. 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:48.039 And as a three-year-old, that had to have been horrible. Do you have much memory of it? 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:57.869 No, the only memories I had, there was two nurses, white nurse was mean and snake, and there was a black nurse that was my angel. 00:36:57.869 --> 00:37:06.989 Oh, that would have been, I mean, that had to have been hard on you and your family to have to be away for so long, too. 00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:07.570 Oh, yeah. 00:37:07.570 --> 00:37:12.280 Did you, so did your, if your mom had to work all the time, who stayed with you at the hospital? 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.079 Uh, probably nobody. 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:14.980 Are you serious? 00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:18.070 Um, I don't remember, but probably nobody, yeah. 00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:22.280 Oh, my goodness! So, then did you have to have follow ups after that I'm guessing? 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:41.320 Yeah, she would, I don't remember exactly what was a follow up or my dad was institutionalized before I was born. He had his last mental breakdown before I was born. So, I remember going on the train, just vaguely, we would go to Shawnee, and she had a cousin down there that had family wealth, only family people in my family that ever had any kind of wealth. 00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:43.659 Right. 00:37:43.659 --> 00:38:11.019 And one of the memories when I, you know, 3, 4, 5-years-old, was getting store bought donuts and dunking them in coffee at his house. So that was 00:38:11.019 --> 00:38:15.000 That's one of those core memories that sticks out to you, because that was a big deal, I'm guessing. 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:30.599 Yes, yeah, it was really a big deal. Mom made the cinnamon rolls and stuff. She was famous for, and donuts. I need to make my grandkids some donuts, because I've never made them the donuts out of the cinnamon roll dough. Well, but I've made a few cinnamon rolls. 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:36.369 You've made a few cinnamon rolls. Well, if you ever need anybody to try one, I'm game. 00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:43.780 Well, you need, you need to be available on Christmas. I usually do have about 16 or 18 batches. 00:38:43.780 --> 00:38:44.840 Oh my gosh! 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.920 Including the ones, sometimes, for the bank open house, so. 00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:52.010 Okay, well, I'm going to mark that on the calendar, though. 00:38:52.010 --> 00:38:54.039 But you need to come and get it fresh, because that's when it's best. 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:59.280 Right out the oven. Um, well, I was going to ask if you had any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything like that that you remember growing up, but obviously breaking, shattering your hip was pretty major. Can you think of anything else that was rough on you or your family during growing up? 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:26.070 Not a lot. I got sick every few months, the you know, and kind of grew out of that. I don't know what caused it. 00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:27.420 Sick, like, how? 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:32.940 Sick at my stomach, and be real, really, really sick for a day or two, and then 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:39.000 Then you'd be okay. So, what made you guys end up traveling to Tulsa to see the doctor that I can't say his name? 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:47.159 Well, Czeskleba, he was the doctor at the clinic here. 00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.230 But you would go to Tulsa to see him? 00:39:49.230 --> 00:39:53.130 Yeah. Probably wasn't a lot of doctors here. 00:39:53.130 --> 00:40:12.300 Right. And, so, that's who you remember seeing. Um, so then you you mentioned that growing up, you attended the Holiness Church. Do you have much memory of like, what a service was like, or maybe what was your favorite part of church? 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:27.030 Well, I think we traveled with others. They had youth nights. You know, you'd go to other churches like Burnett Wick Mission (ph) and Highway Mission and Paden, and a few churches around here. 00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:28.500 Okay. 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:31.500 And they had the camp meeting out here, north of town. 00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:32.190 Right. 00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:36.690 That was always a big, big deal where 00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:38.820 So, a lot of that's been going on for a long time then. 00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:43.949 Mm-hmm, well, but you know, it used to be the different location than it is now. 00:40:43.949 --> 00:41:01.889 Right, right. Um, so what were holidays like with with your family, for instance, tell me, what a typical Christmas was like for your family when you were younger? Do you remember? 00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:07.860 Yeah, it would evolve around food. Mom made sure we had food, and, usually, a big spread, and 00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:08.550 That was the big 00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:09.000 Multiple desserts. 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:09.119 No, gifts were not 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:17.610 Right. So, was there very many gifts? Or did you guys make each other things? 00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:21.369 It was mainly around the food. 00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:55.659 One of the things that my sister got me, the only gift that I remember, and she was mad at me till she passed, is she got me some underwear that had the heroes, you know, the comic book heroes, and I was so proud of them. So, when Connie came over, her to be husband came over, the first time I had to show him my underwear. Embarrassed her to death. 00:41:55.659 --> 00:42:04.329 That's great. What were those called, like Underoos or something, maybe? 00:42:04.329 --> 00:42:08.139 That was 70 years ago. It was before Underoos. 00:42:08.139 --> 00:42:09.070 Oh, that's funny! 00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:14.590 Really wasn't that many pairs of underwears that had anything other than white. 00:42:14.590 --> 00:42:16.170 White, right. 00:42:16.170 --> 00:42:17.789 That's why they called them tighty whities. 00:42:17.789 --> 00:42:26.099 Tighty whities. Okay, well, do you remember celebrating were, were any other holidays in your family a big deal, aside from Christmas and Thanksgiving? 00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.420 Thanksgiving? Yeah. 00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:27.780 Okay. 00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:31.000 And seems like Easter was a big deal. 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:42.909 Um, do you remember as a child ever thinking about what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:42:42.909 --> 00:42:46.869 No, I really didn't spend even when I went off to college, I didn't. 00:42:46.869 --> 00:42:52.179 You still didn't know. So, even when you were little, you didn't think, oh, I want to be a veterinarian? 00:42:52.179 --> 00:42:53.000 No, never, any of that. 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:57.590 Never thought of that. And you still didn't know what you wanted to do, even when you were in college? 00:42:57.590 --> 00:43:00.590 Yeah, I really didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it, you know,. 00:43:00.590 --> 00:43:02.840 So, what did you go to college for? 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:58.010 Well, I ended up getting personnel management was what I got my degree. They changed my degree five times while I was there. Of course, I was there for two years, and then Ellen and I got married, and I went the spring semester, and then I finished up in two years. So, took a total of five years to get through there. But my degree ended up being in organizational analysis, which was a systems approach to personnel management. And I was in college, I ran like the [indecipherable] the computer stuff was just coming out. I ran, like the you went in, wrote your programs and put them on punch cards, and then put that the punch cards ran through to build your program, so. 00:43:58.010 --> 00:43:58.489 Wow! 00:43:58.489 --> 00:43:59.809 So, wow, yeah! 00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:18.900 Wow! And it's funny talking to you that I think Stacey inherited, Stacey is a lot like you, isn't she, in her the way she thinks. She's like my Excel spreadsheet go-to person when I need help with math or Excel or anything like that, she always helps me. 00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:38.250 Well, it was kind of interesting. Didn't really talk about family history and dad's issues, other than mom took us to see him when she could, until around 1985 when we was in the 80 in her early 80s, she talked about it. 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:39.480 So, you didn't know? 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.219 I didn't know a lot. I mean 00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:44.130 Is that something you want to talk about in this interview, I mean? 00:44:44.130 --> 00:44:45.030 It doesn't matter. 00:44:45.030 --> 00:44:45.510 Okay. 00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:48.219 It's, you know, I've talked about a lot more lately. 00:44:48.219 --> 00:44:52.679 Right. So, what so, feel free to tell me about that. 00:44:52.679 --> 00:45:21.510 Well, then when he passed, my aunt brought the, she had the tickets for when they sold out, they had $2,500 peanut crop and $2,800 worth of sales on their farm equipment, or vice versa. In '47 is when they sold out. So that's what mom used to buy the house with her portion of it. 00:45:21.510 --> 00:45:26.909 And, so, was your dad just not around for the time that you grew up? 00:45:26.909 --> 00:45:36.210 Yeah, he was institutionalized. He was a ward of the state. He was, he had a mental breakdown and ran off to California, and they brought him back. 00:45:36.210 --> 00:45:38.969 And, so, he wasn't around at all when you grew up? 00:45:38.969 --> 00:45:39.000 Not at all. 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.780 So, it was your mom and your sisters then. 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:42.989 Right. 00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:45.269 And grandma that that helped to raise you. 00:45:45.269 --> 00:45:45.929 Right. 00:45:45.929 --> 00:45:51.000 And so did you it? You said it wasn't until later on that you actually would go and see him or visit him? 00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:00.119 No, we went to see him multiple times. I mean, once or twice a year. But, that was about all, you know, because he was typically 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.000 Did you understand that as a kid, or was that confusing for you? 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:12.780 I, you know, one of the things that I always felt grateful for is I never felt like I missed anything. 00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:14.940 Right, right. 00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.579 You know, it was just, it's just the way it was. 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:26.159 Well, I think, you know, it's when that's how you grow up and you don't really have anything to compare it to,that was your normal. 00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:27.449 Right. 00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:34.000 And, so, did it ever get to where you had much of a relationship with him as you, as time went on? 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:49.480 No, that history, they moved him a couple of times without even notifying where they moved him to. And one year, one time, they moved him out to Elk City or somewhere, and it took a year for mom to locate him. 00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.219 Are you serious? 00:46:51.219 --> 00:47:06.699 But, then, in the 80s, or late 80s, or whatever, I got a call in the middle of night, and they said, I need your permission to do surgery on your dad. 00:47:06.699 --> 00:47:09.000 So, you would have been in your 30s? 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:09.840 Yes. 00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:10.440 Okay. 00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:58.349 And, well, I might have been older than that. Yeah, would have been in my late 30s. And I said, well, you've never even asked before, but yeah, go ahead and do surgery. Well, just so happened, I had a relationship with Dale Dickens, who worked for DHS. This was back for before you had to have all the paperwork to, you know, he came in if somebody applied for DHS, he came in to get their bank information. Anyway, I called him and asked him what my options were, and he said, well, if they'll take him down here at the nursing home, just when they check him out of the hospital in Ada, have the ambulance bring him here, and then we'll do the paperwork. So, we got him up here to Bristow at that point, and 00:47:58.349 --> 00:48:00.090 So, he went to Rainbow or? 00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:00.539 Yes. 00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:01.000 Okay. 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:35.500 And as luck would have it, my father in law's significant other, Bonita Bishop, was over the head of nursing at Rainbow. And she said, yeah, well, we can handle it. So, we had him up here until then. He knew all of his brothers and sisters names, but he didn't know any of the children by face, even though we went to see him. The best way I could describe it, he knew me as somebody he knew he should know. That sounds like double talk. 00:48:35.500 --> 00:48:43.960 No, no, I get what you're saying. You were familiar to him, but he didn't really know why you were familiar to him. 00:48:43.960 --> 00:49:12.809 An additional piece of history came from Goldie Stice, was a nurse, and she went down and gave him shots, and he could name all seven of his children. And, so, that's how we learned that from him. We had very little. I mean, even when you asked him questions, it was usually about two questions, and you got no more responses when they're there. 00:49:12.809 --> 00:49:14.909 Do you mind if I ask what, like, what was his diagnosis, or what what was? 00:49:14.909 --> 00:49:15.840 Well, mental health was not good diagnosis. 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:15.929 Right. 00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:16.110 The only 00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:21.570 So, in later years was it more like dementia that was maybe? 00:49:21.570 --> 00:49:24.239 No. 00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:29.610 It wasn't that. 00:49:29.610 --> 00:49:52.530 When he got up here, Vanita said, well, he's over medicated. Well, it turns out they've only given him, in a quarter, quarter of an adult doses of medication. But, it, it caused him the ticks like the other over medicated, where people over medicate themselves, but he got to where he could play dominoes and keep score. 00:49:52.530 --> 00:49:56.000 So, do you feel like he got maybe a little better when he came to Bristow? 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:56.780 Yes, definitely. 00:49:56.780 --> 00:49:57.719 Clearer, maybe? 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:35.309 Well, clearer, just none of the that 40 years in there was gone, basically. But he could still if his brothers and sisters came to see him, he knew them. Of course, they were adults. When, you know, he had a an internist, it one of the medical deals that he went to. He had an internist that said he's had three major traumas to the brain, and that any one of them could have caused this. Well, he was a surveyor for the government and had a heat stroke out in the corn field. 00:50:35.309 --> 00:50:36.840 Oh, my gosh! 00:50:36.840 --> 00:51:18.329 That one of the other ones, he fell off the tractor and hit his head on the plow that we knew about. And the third one was back in the day. The hay baling equipment was stationary, so you pitch forked it in, and the pitchfork hit the belt came back and hit him in the head. So, that would account for the three major traumas, but that's the sum of what we know. We took him over to Creoks once and Creoks, when he walked across the room, said he's schizophrenic. Well, if you know anything about schizophrenia, it doesn't manifest itself. He may have very well been schizophrenic, but it doesn't manifest itself outwardly, typically, 00:51:18.329 --> 00:51:30.389 Right. So, so remind me then, now that I have a little more history, at what age so was he never at home for or like at what age do you ever remember him being at home? 00:51:30.389 --> 00:51:36.150 No, he was institutionalized by the April of 1950 before that, probably late. 00:51:36.150 --> 00:51:37.800 And you were born in '50? 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:39.719 Probably late '49. 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:49.769 So, you never had him. You never had him. Oh, my gosh. So, I bet that was, like, extremely hard on your mother too, trying to raise a family, a big family. 00:51:49.769 --> 00:52:26.000 Well, it was. And some of his family, not all, but some of his family blamed her for it. But the one part of the story that doesn't get told often, and it may cause, but the judge, when he was going to make him a ward of the state, asked him, Mr. Barnett, what do you think? And he said, I don't know, this woman's been beside me.Whatever she decides, I need. It's the way it will be. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:30.380 And, so, was it her decision then? 00:52:30.380 --> 00:52:37.639 Well, they concurred, but I'm just saying, they had that much belief in each other. 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:42.500 Right, and you don't feel like maybe that was expressed enough to the other side of the family? 00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:44.360 Oh, I don't think it was ever expressed. 00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:45.409 Right. 00:52:45.409 --> 00:53:09.630 In later years, some of the other cousins started a family reunion, and, you know, we had great family reunions with the family. But, I mean, but, or in those early years, other than my Uncle Herbert, dad's brother, I don't ever recall any of the other family coming to see her. 00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:18.570 Right, right. So, do you feel like, then, it was a good thing that you were able to get him back here for his, I'm guessing, did he pass away at Rainbow? 00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:23.340 Well, mom is already in the nursing home at that point. So, yes, it was a good thing for both. 00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:25.050 Oh, so they were together? 00:53:25.050 --> 00:53:30.780 Well, they weren't in the same room, but they was together, and she could check on him everyday. So yes, it was 00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:32.760 So, they were, basically, reunited then? 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:33.360 That's correct. 00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:43.409 Well, that's good. That's good. Um, that was a long, a long journey, though, to get there. Yeah, and so did they both pass away at Rainbow? 00:53:43.409 --> 00:54:02.610 Yes, she passed away first, and then he had, probably, four or five, what I call panic attacks, and I would go down and take him to the hospital, and by the time the doctor got there, but I mean, like I said, when I said he's somebody, he knew he should know. 00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:03.420 Right. 00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:12.539 By the time the doctor got there, the panic attack would be over, and he, you know, the diagnosis always well, he's got good 00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:13.320 He's fine. 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.929 Vitals for person his age. 00:54:15.929 --> 00:54:21.510 Right. Well, it probably was, and then you being there probably comforted him. 00:54:21.510 --> 00:54:22.000 Yeah. 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:34.869 Um, was there any other parts of that story that you want to share? Because that wasn't anything that you know, I really knew to ask about, but that's, it sounds like a, obviously, a very important part of your history. 00:54:34.869 --> 00:55:18.230 Well, I don't know how much, yeah, one of those times we took him out there, there was young, well, not young, but the lady intern doctor that looked after him and, and she said, she's asking me, said, well, you know, some questions. And I said, I don't know. You know, kind of like when they moved him up here they were, what kind of foods he like? I said, I don't know, other than hamburgers, because we always took him to get a hamburger. He would eat a hamburger, but she asked him, you know, because he could answer some questions, what day it was and all that. She looked at me like, fine son you are to care much about your dad. 00:55:18.230 --> 00:55:20.179 But you didn't know, because he wasn't there. 00:55:20.179 --> 00:55:29.599 Well, but then she asked him, so Mr. Barnett, who's this guy? And he said, I don't know. And she could have crawled under that gurney. 00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:30.769 Then she realized. 00:55:30.769 --> 00:55:38.090 Well, I don't know she ever realized, but she, she kind of got part of the story that he had no clue who I was. 00:55:38.090 --> 00:55:39.900 Right, right. 00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:44.000 And I didn't know that much about him, other than I looked after him, so. 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:53.000 So, was that tough on you to go back and take care of him in later, later life, when he wasn't somebody that, you know, had ever been in your life? 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:54.469 No, really wasn't. 00:55:54.469 --> 00:55:56.510 Or do you feel like that helped you? 00:55:56.510 --> 00:56:00.559 Well, I don't. I can't say either one. 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.000 Just something you felt you needed to do? 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:02.389 Okay. It's kind of one of those things that when he passed, there was not a big loss. And the thing that I gained from that is, if you know, if you ever lose somebody, and you feel a big loss, then be grateful. 00:56:02.389 --> 00:56:21.500 Right. 00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:25.130 That's a good point. That's a really good point. Yeah. 00:56:25.130 --> 00:56:29.659 Is, you know, that you had a relationship that causes you 00:56:29.659 --> 00:56:30.920 To feel the loss. 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:31.670 Yes. 00:56:31.670 --> 00:56:46.789 Yes, I understand. Well, well, is it alright if we circle back a little bit to your college life? Because we, we kind of skipped past that a little bit, too. Um, so you decided to go to OSU? 00:56:46.789 --> 00:56:47.119 Yes. 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:54.440 That took about five years, you said, to get, get through that. Um, did you enjoy your experience at OSU? 00:56:54.440 --> 00:57:01.980 Yeah, I attended as many athletic events as I could. You know, of course, back then, it came with the you didn't have to pay extra, 00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:02.000 Right, right. 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.369 It was a freebie. 00:57:04.369 --> 00:57:05.750 Yeah, right. 00:57:05.750 --> 00:57:10.670 And they even had freshmen football, so the freshmen weren't on the team, so. 00:57:10.670 --> 00:57:14.460 Oh! So you enjoyed your experience there then? 00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:25.550 Yes, I worked at a Champlain Station up there for the first or second year. I worked, you know, from four to midnight and then 00:57:25.550 --> 00:57:29.900 So, did you pay for your college? Or did you have scholarships or? 00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:46.579 Well, I got a scholarship from eighth grade. I think it was history teacher. I can't remember the name of that, but it was $100 scholarship. 00:57:46.579 --> 00:57:48.110 Oh, my gosh! 00:57:48.110 --> 00:58:04.340 But then I had, in generally, I paid for my own scholarship, or I had two thousand dollar student loans when I got out. 00:58:04.340 --> 00:58:05.059 That you had to pay. 00:58:05.059 --> 00:58:10.460 So, you know, basically the extra I paid for everything besides the $1,000. 00:58:10.460 --> 00:58:26.840 Right. Okay, well, and then whenever we had visited on the phone, I didn't realize that you, you know, I know you as somebody that's always been at Community Bank. I didn't realize, I didn't realize you had, like, an oil field business. So, can you tell us about that? 00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:33.829 Okay, yeah. Do you want to go back with all my other jobs first? Or you want to go straight to the oil business? 00:58:33.829 --> 00:58:38.690 You just, you just tell us, you can start from, from all your jobs if you want to. 00:58:38.690 --> 00:58:48.000 Well, I worked down there during the winter I worked, but then the summer, I worked for the Turnpike Authority. 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.409 Where they was resurfacing a quarter of each of the Turner Turnpike. And, the first two summers I worked in the scale house, weighing out trucks for the Turnpike Authority, and then the summer, the fall, but when we got married, I worked on the maintenance crew until December, I mean, [indecipherable]. And then in the spring, I went to work and I laid carpet with Mr. McKay. I went to school, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we laid carpet Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And that was about the time the carpet mill went out. So, there was people that bought a lot of there was some three different colors of shag carpet. 00:58:48.409 --> 00:59:44.639 Okay. 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:46.110 And you installed a lot of it? 00:59:46.110 --> 00:59:49.349 Beige, two-tone pink and lime green. 00:59:49.349 --> 00:59:51.570 Oh, my goodness! Oh, my goodness! 00:59:51.570 --> 01:00:03.059 So yes, and then, but I went back, and then I worked for Cummings Construction then still 01:00:03.059 --> 01:00:04.230 Still on the Turnpike? 01:00:04.230 --> 01:00:11.150 Yeah. And then the summer after I graduated from college, I actually drove a lay down machine on the turnpike resurfacing. 01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:14.960 Oh, you have you're jack of all trades, then, aren't you? 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:15.409 Well 01:00:15.409 --> 01:00:22.000 You can do a little bit of everything. But didn't you say that was it Mrs. Foster that called you? 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:34.690 Well, yes. And then that fall, I interviewed with UPS and out of 60 applicants, I got the UPS job out of Stillwater, so. 01:00:34.690 --> 01:00:35.739 Driving a truck? 01:00:35.739 --> 01:00:57.639 Driving a UPS truck. We actually, you the trailer came in when you got to work, you loaded your package car. I averaged 65 stops in 160 miles a day, and then you came in and always washed your package car in eight hours. Well 01:00:57.639 --> 01:00:58.539 Oh, my goodness! 01:00:58.539 --> 01:01:05.230 Well, sometimes you had a little more than eight hours, but it, you know, generally that was 01:01:05.230 --> 01:01:06.579 That was a heck of a work day! 01:01:06.579 --> 01:01:07.570 You was moving. 01:01:07.570 --> 01:01:13.570 Yeah. And you only, you said you worked there about a year? 01:01:13.570 --> 01:01:46.179 Almost, well, and then about May of '74 I got a call from Arthur Foster, and he said, Lewis and I are getting older, and we need to add a trainee down here. And I was talking to Carolyn, and Carolyn said, what about that David Barnett? He ought to be out of school by now. So said, would you be interested in coming down and talking to us? So, I came down and talked to him, and, basically, took a 50% pay cut from UPS to go to work at the bank. 01:01:46.179 --> 01:01:47.199 Oh, gosh! 01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:54.099 I did get a raise within the first couple of months, but don't ever regret that. 01:01:54.099 --> 01:01:54.909 Right. 01:01:54.909 --> 01:02:08.679 And then I worked there from '74 till 1980 and got out. My brothers had started a oil field service business, and 01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:11.150 And you said that was called Barnett Operations? 01:02:11.150 --> 01:02:46.010 Barnertt Operating, yeah. They had under that Barnett Power Tongs. And then they had, they bought out a cement and acidizing company and, and had a pump truck, and then we built two pump trucks, or had one built and built another one. So, we had three, three pump trucks and all related equipment. And by April of 1982 we had 52 employees. 01:02:46.010 --> 01:02:47.719 That's quite a 01:02:47.719 --> 01:03:34.880 So, yeah, and then then Penn Square (ph) happened, and oilfield started south, and we couldn't pay off people. When we was down, by early '85, it was down to 14 employees, and so Doy Holderfield, one of the partners, took over the operation, and I went back to work for the bank. When I left the bank, I was cashier in marketing, and they split that out while I was gone. They had two people, both of them left, and I got my old job back which was both of their jobs. 01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:36.000 Which was both of theirs. 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:36.050 Well, that is quite a, I don't know, going from oil field type management to, you know, back to the bank. That's, did you have a preference of, did you like one better than the other? Or was there they're just different, or? 01:03:36.050 --> 01:03:54.630 Yes. 01:03:54.630 --> 01:03:58.590 They were just different, the highs were higher and the lows were lower in the oil field. 01:03:58.590 --> 01:04:12.210 In the oil field. I bet, I bet. And, so, then he went back to the bank, so tell me about the bank, since that's definitely kind of a Bristow icon. Tell me about your time at the bank and what that was like. 01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:40.110 Well, I became cashier, and then I was trained to be a loan officer, and and the cashier left that was there and, and I took the cashier position back, because cashiers were harder to find than loan officers so, so I was actually a cashier with three different times. 01:04:40.110 --> 01:04:43.079 And you were there a total of 30 years? Is that right? 01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.880 Yes, I was there from '85 until the end of '20. 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:46.000 So, you saw a lot of changes during that time. 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:58.119 Yes, well, you stop and think, when I came there the first time in 1974 the bank was 50 years old, and I thought it was had been there forever. 01:04:58.119 --> 01:04:59.349 Forever. 01:04:59.349 --> 01:05:04.320 And so now, they are getting ready October 4th to celebrate their 100th birthday. 01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:35.960 And I was fortunate enough back in May to interview Mr. Krumme before he passed away. And that was such an honor, because I've never met him, I, you know. And he was such a, just a, just a neat person, you know, and so full of he, my gosh, he's lived through so much life and had so much to talk about. It was a really I was I felt very honored that I got to talk to him before he passed away. So, did you have much involvement with Mr. Krumme over the years? 01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:54.000 Well, just he was on the board, and then the last 10 or 15 years, I was on the board, so I served with him. And, you know, he had a nice sense humor, and wisdom, as you found out. 01:05:54.000 --> 01:06:08.039 Yes, yes. And can could recall dates, unlike any, I mean, I've kind of joked with him, and I said, I have the time. I can't remember how old I am, and you're rattling off dates like, I mean, he's just so was so sharp. 01:06:08.039 --> 01:07:20.070 Well, I have a couple of stories that he told at board meeting that you're free to cut out if you want to. They're not bad. But, one of them was talking about a number of people had purchased stock of the old Williams Company at 20 some dollars when they split out and did Williams Communication. And then it went down to less than $1 and, and, and then he was telling the story that he had bought back, well, it's actually more than that. But anyway, he had bought back some shares of Williams Company when it and when it went below $1 and then at that time it was back up to $25. So, there was an old television commercial, it was when E.F. Hutton talks, people listen. So, all the board members kind of leaned up listening. He said, you know, there's another company out there just like that today, and everybody's just listening intently. He said, If we only knew who it was! 01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:21.530 That's funny! 01:07:21.530 --> 01:07:30.679 Well, and then you put it with the E.F. Hutton commerical that for years when E. F. Hutton talks, people listen. We was exactly that! 01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:33.050 Oh, I bet that was funny! 01:07:33.050 --> 01:07:50.000 Funny to me. And the other one is that it was, you know, he was about 90 at the time. He said, beware of a man that tells you that he runs things in his family, because if he, if he says that, he'll lie to you about other stuff too. 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:57.079 Yeah, that's a good one, too. 01:07:57.079 --> 01:07:59.840 Beautiful thing about stories that they were so simple. 01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:00.619 Yes! 01:08:00.619 --> 01:08:03.829 But, you know, the I love the logic. 01:08:03.829 --> 01:08:28.699 Tes, oh, absolutely! And, and he just, I think the thing that I got from him, the the little bit that I got to talk to him, was just just such a kind gentleman. I mean, he was just such a, and just because I was kind of nervous to visit with him and, but absolutely put you at ease. And just a regular, just a regular guy. 01:08:28.699 --> 01:08:38.300 Oh yes. Well, he'd seen and done so much as I told you, you know, the state Democratic headquarters is the George Krumme building. 01:08:38.300 --> 01:08:39.409 Yeah, yeah. 01:08:39.409 --> 01:08:41.810 You know, so it's not like he was 01:08:41.810 --> 01:08:52.640 Well, I saw during the DNC that he was acknowledged. You know, so, I mean, you you have to be somebody to to be to be acknowledged on that stage. 01:08:52.640 --> 01:09:04.550 The DNC and the Democratic National he was kind of like Dorcas Kelly was acknowledged. Dorcas Kelly was from Bristow, and she was well known and international circle, too, in the Republican side. 01:09:04.550 --> 01:09:18.949 Right. Okay, so back on, back on the bank, is there, do you miss it? I mean, do you were there a long time. Like people don't it doesn't seem like people really stay with companies that long anymore. 01:09:18.949 --> 01:09:24.409 No, I don't say I miss it, because I still have a lot of banking to do. 01:09:24.409 --> 01:09:25.100 Right, right. 01:09:25.100 --> 01:09:27.840 And a lot of friendships there. 01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:29.939 Right. 01:09:29.939 --> 01:09:39.000 You know, still connected. I still have the minority ownership in the bank, so it keeps me connected. 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:39.859 Not completely out of it. And while I was there, I got to serve for a year or two on the other bank boards that the Sooner Southwest is the ownership now, and they own. 01:09:39.859 --> 01:09:54.420 So, you're not completely out of there. 01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.720 That's what he had mentioned. 01:09:55.720 --> 01:10:13.600 Yeah, they own three other banks. So, but I've got to serve on Security First National in Hugo, and so developed a good relationship with the people there. And then the same way with First National in Heavner and Poteau, so. 01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:22.989 And then I think, haven't you served on some other boards in town? Was it the, oh no, I've lost. 01:10:22.989 --> 01:10:39.369 I was chairman of the United Way, is probably still United Fund at that point, and chairman of their, president of the Bristow Chamber. Both of those within a year after I came back to the bank. 01:10:39.369 --> 01:10:41.000 And then on some other authority, weren't you? 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:44.180 I've been on the Park Board since 1985. 01:10:44.180 --> 01:10:57.890 Okay, maybe that's what it was that Stacey had mentioned. Okay, so you're, it's obvious that you're very community involved, and especially like through church. Which you attend First Church of God now? Right? 01:10:57.890 --> 01:10:58.220 Correct. 01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:01.189 And how long have you been, how long have you been there? 01:11:01.189 --> 01:11:03.000 Basically, since it came in '74. 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.680 Since you came, oh, wow. So, you've been there a long time. 01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.229 We were married in the Nazarene Church. 01:11:10.229 --> 01:11:28.050 I know you'd mentioned, and, and while we're, we can't get out of this without talking about your family, because I know your family is a super important to you. So, can you tell me what your spouse's full name is, and where did you meet her? 01:11:28.050 --> 01:11:33.210 Ellen Louise Propst [Barnett] and met her at school. 01:11:33.210 --> 01:11:34.079 At OSU? 01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:34.890 No at Bristow. 01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:37.039 Oh at Bristow. Okay. 01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:55.880 Her dad was Noel Propst, who had the service stations here. He had the Phillips down where Subway was, and then around 1970 he bought the station down where the donut shop is, and he had it until he closed it. 01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:57.350 That's the one that I remember. 01:11:57.350 --> 01:11:58.189 Yeah. 01:11:58.189 --> 01:12:01.850 So, what was your first impression of her when you first met her? 01:12:01.850 --> 01:12:03.109 That she was shy. 01:12:03.109 --> 01:12:04.220 That she was shy? 01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:05.329 Yes. 01:12:05.329 --> 01:12:08.329 Did you have to work to get her attention? 01:12:08.329 --> 01:12:10.399 No, I think she spotted me first. 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:12.350 Oh, is that how it was? 01:12:12.350 --> 01:12:38.180 Yeah, she tells a story of her dad had an old Jeep, and she, she and one of her cousins came to get fuel in the jeep so she could an get up close. Turns out, none of us could find the gas tank in the Jeep, and it embarrassed her to death. Well, I don't know anything about it, obviously. 01:12:38.180 --> 01:12:45.109 Oh, that's funny. So, did you have, like, a long engagement? Did you have a 01:12:45.109 --> 01:12:55.220 Two, two plus years. I mean, it was, we was not engaged, but we went together for, yeah, by the time I went to OSU. 01:12:55.220 --> 01:12:56.539 Did she go to OSU also? 01:12:56.539 --> 01:12:57.409 She went for a year. 01:12:57.409 --> 01:12:58.159 Went for a year. 01:12:58.159 --> 01:12:59.810 The second year I was there. 01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:00.140 Okay. 01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:03.869 And then we got married in August of that of '70. 01:13:03.869 --> 01:13:06.750 So, August, what was the date? August? 01:13:06.750 --> 01:13:07.500 August 22nd. 01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:07.920 Okay. 01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:08.000 You kinda tricked me. 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:15.920 I'm going to get you in trouble, aren't I? Um, so what was your did you have just like a normal wedding, or did,? 01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:16.000 Yeah. 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.220 And it was at the Nazarene church? 01:13:18.220 --> 01:13:22.630 Right. And it was a day that was one of the hottest days of the year. 01:13:22.630 --> 01:13:23.470 Oh, gosh! 01:13:23.470 --> 01:13:27.819 Well, it rained that morning and it was only 88 but it felt like 120. 01:13:27.819 --> 01:13:30.279 So, it was probably 120% humidity. 01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:35.229 Yes, yes, and no air conditioning. 01:13:35.229 --> 01:13:38.680 Oh, my goodness! I didn't even think about that. 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:48.189 And she just tells a story that one of the ladies after the deal said, well, honey, there was a fan down in the nursery you could have had when you were getting ready. 01:13:48.189 --> 01:13:50.739 Oh, my gosh! So, you guys were probably about to die then? 01:13:50.739 --> 01:13:59.930 Well, yeah, well, I went to Stillwater and got my hair cut that morning, and so got the old fashioned razor cut. Lookin' good! 01:13:59.930 --> 01:14:01.000 You were ready to go, weren't ya? 01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.960 Yeah, well, that was about all that was ready to go. 01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:12.100 Well, so can you tell me, like, what your early years of marriage was like? Was it? Tell me about it. 01:14:12.100 --> 01:14:14.350 Just enjoyable. I mean, you know. 01:14:14.350 --> 01:14:16.960 Did you struggle? Was it? 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:35.199 Yeah, wasn't any, you know, I, like I said, I worked on the turnpike maintenance, and she didn't work that fall, and then worked on laying carpet, you know. So, we didn't have a lot. 01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:36.039 Didn't have a lot? 01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:36.979 Didn't know we didn't have a lot. 01:14:36.979 --> 01:14:37.840 But I think sometimes in the beginning, like that, when you don't know any different, I mean, it's, it's just how it is, and it's, I don't know, you're figuring it all out and having fun, you know? 01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:49.899 Mm-hmm. 01:14:49.899 --> 01:14:53.289 So, you lived, did you live in Stillwater together for? 01:14:53.289 --> 01:15:09.039 Well, when we first got married, we had lived in the Corey's (ph) little rent house behind their house up at 10th and something just before you go in the new edition. Last little place for you go into the new edition. 01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:10.920 Okay. 01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:50.399 Cute little house. She still talks about it, but the Judge Corey (ph) and his wife kept it up nice and and then Noel helped us, or bought a trailer for us, and we moved when we moved to Stillwater the following year. And, so, we lived in it, and then when we moved back to Bristow, three years later, the trailer is still sitting out there on the five mile road south of Kathy's [Kathy Bacon] house. 01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:51.180 Is it really? 01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:53.039 Yes. 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:56.699 Oh, wow! Okay, and is that where you lived there? 01:15:56.699 --> 01:16:08.670 We lived there till we built a house in 1970, well, seven or eight, because Stacey [Stacey Shields] was about a year old. 01:16:08.670 --> 01:16:10.710 And was that in town? 01:16:10.710 --> 01:16:11.000 1228 South Hickory. 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:21.199 South Hickory, huh? Um, well, and since you mentioned your kids, tell me, tell me how many children you have and what their full names are. 01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:28.760 Stacey Lynn Shields and David Blake Barnett. 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:36.710 David Blake Barnett. Okay, and I have Stacey's birth date as 11/1/76 and Blake's as 8/18/79. 01:16:36.710 --> 01:16:37.069 Correct. 01:16:37.069 --> 01:16:49.550 Is that correct? Okay. Can you think back to what the challenges were of being a dad, say, when they were little, or when you were a new dad? 01:16:49.550 --> 01:17:03.000 No, I, well, one of the things that I remember, you know, it was Stacey was probably six months old before, I mean, I enjoyed it immensely, but before I got over the nervousness of being a new dad. 01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:07.020 Exactly. Of having a little baby that you had to be in charge of and take care of. 01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:08.039 Yeah. 01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:08.699 Yes. 01:17:08.699 --> 01:17:12.000 So, it took her till she's about six months before you could fully enjoy her? 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:17.010 Well, I think I fully enjoyed her, but I still was nervous, yes. 01:17:17.010 --> 01:17:22.949 Okay, um, it, but you can't think of any other challenges you just enjoyed, enjoyed being a dad? 01:17:22.949 --> 01:17:36.930 Yeah, well, you know, we talked about part of the raising is you just, mom, if she worried about what all she couldn't or didn't have or couldn't do, she just did what was necessary and kept, kept plugging. 01:17:36.930 --> 01:17:37.859 Right, right. 01:17:37.859 --> 01:18:06.569 You know, and, so, that was very useful, you know, we, while I worked for UPS, we, you know, I paid off my student loans first year I was out of college. So, we lived and that was probably the best time we had money. She worked for a freight company there. They work from five in the morning until ten at night. 01:18:06.569 --> 01:18:07.449 Oh, wow! 01:18:07.449 --> 01:18:37.359 Six days a week, except they take off early on Saturday, and they would drive over to, it was Joseph's before it was Freddie's at that time, and then it was later on, Freddie's. But anyway, back then, I started, that's kind of when I started cooking. I started making tabbouleh, because they like tabbouleh and I would share it with them. So, that was really one of the first things that I got proficient at. 01:18:37.359 --> 01:18:41.920 So, now you're on the hook for tabbouleh and cinnamon rolls with me, because I love tabbouleh, too. 01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:42.489 Oh, you do? 01:18:42.489 --> 01:18:44.590 Yes, I do. 01:18:44.590 --> 01:18:46.720 Well, if anything else you need. 01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:50.050 I'm just going to go ahead and write my order out for whenever this is over. 01:18:50.050 --> 01:18:51.340 Do you like cabbage rolls, too? 01:18:51.340 --> 01:18:54.489 Yes, I do. I love cabbage rolls. 01:18:54.489 --> 01:18:56.800 Well, I got the real thing there. 01:18:56.800 --> 01:18:57.850 Oh, you do.? 01:18:57.850 --> 01:18:59.949 That's a story in its own. 01:18:59.949 --> 01:19:10.000 Oh, my goodness, okay, well, and, so, while we're still on your your family, I know you have grandkids, so tell me how many grandkids you have and what their names are. 01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:29.289 I have six grandkids. Chapman Shields, Cooper Shields, Cyler Shields, Bryson Barnett, Carver, Barnett and Talus Barnett. And I have a bonus Riley Walker, grandson. 01:19:29.289 --> 01:19:29.869 Okay. 01:19:29.869 --> 01:19:36.289 He has lived with the Shields since his junior year in high school, and he's the same age as Chapman, so. ages chat 01:19:36.289 --> 01:19:46.239 Well, and now I also hear, that since you've retired, you've become quite the cattleman, and that you you're doing that some with your grandkids, with your grandsons? 01:19:46.239 --> 01:20:05.500 I'm an inadvertent cattleman. Noel left the cattle to the three kids, and Tony [Tony Bacon] kind of looked at the cattle, and Lowell [Lowell Propst], and they both passed away, so, that's why I say, I didn't mean to be a cattleman, but I am. 01:20:05.500 --> 01:20:07.210 But you're liking it, aren't you? 01:20:07.210 --> 01:20:09.850 I like it. I like it because I get to spend time with my grandkids. 01:20:09.850 --> 01:20:15.420 With your grandsons. And mainly, don't, don't Cooper and Cyler, aren't they the main ones that do that? 01:20:15.420 --> 01:20:30.329 Cyler is. Cooper's very helpful. All of them have helped to some degree. When we work them, most of them are there, including Riley. And, so, it's a 01:20:30.329 --> 01:20:31.289 Family affair? 01:20:31.289 --> 01:20:34.800 Well, and very enjoyable. That's a neat time. 01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:35.000 Well, good. 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:37.220 You know, it's a 01:20:37.220 --> 01:20:44.000 Because, if you remember, I took Cyler's senior pictures out there, and we were trying to herd cattle, to try to get some in the background. 01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:44.329 Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I know that you're definitely a family man. I know that, like, you got you cook on Sundays. And you, you know, you got all the family there. 01:20:44.329 --> 01:20:59.119 [Indecipherable] 01:20:59.119 --> 01:21:04.000 We typically have most of the family there on Sundays, and maybe a few extra. 01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:09.619 A few extras. I don't know, you might have me as an extra at some point. 01:21:09.619 --> 01:21:11.750 So, I need to invite you when I do cabbage rolls? 01:21:11.750 --> 01:21:24.979 Yes, yes, absolutely. Um, okay, well, we've talked about the the Lions Club and the pancake recipe. Um, oh, it was the Industrial Authority. You were on the Industrial Authority. 01:21:24.979 --> 01:21:27.739 Industrial Authority and chairman of it for a number of years. 01:21:27.739 --> 01:21:41.180 Okay, and then Stacey mentioned the old Chamber of Commerce that was on Main Street. You had mentioned that. Um, is there anything you want to add about either of those things? 01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:44.510 No, I don't know, you know it, it was just 01:21:44.510 --> 01:21:46.000 One of the, some of the things that you were a part of. 01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:48.819 Mm-hmm. 01:21:48.819 --> 01:21:51.939 Okay. Well, just as a fun question 01:21:51.939 --> 01:21:56.680 At some point, maybe we might go over some of the bank history that I remember. 01:21:56.680 --> 01:21:59.500 Okay, well, go ahead, go right ahead. 01:21:59.500 --> 01:22:11.560 Well, when we came back to Bristow, Ellen worked for George Krumme's dad for a few months down at Krumme Oil Company. 01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:12.300 Okay. 01:22:12.300 --> 01:23:27.390 And, so, she learned a lot of Krumme history from him, and so that helped, and then he was on the board when in '74, so there was a number of people, anyway, I can't remember all the people's names that was on the board back then. But then they, The Fosters, Arthur Foster and Lewis and Debbie Farha, Sr. were their primary stockholders of Community Bank, and they sold out to 92% of the stock was sold to five families, basically, board member families: George Krumme, Harlan Krumme, TP McAdams, who had McAdams Pipe and Supply, David Loeffler and the up north, the house that just burned behind Walmart. 01:23:27.390 --> 01:23:28.350 Oh. Collins? 01:23:28.350 --> 01:24:09.329 Yeah, Roger Collins, yes. And, eventually, the stock, you know, they end up acquiring the rest of the stock. when in TP McAdams acquired one of the other interests, so he became a 40% shareholder, and when Roger Collins decided he wanted out, the Krumme brothers acquired 30% each. I think it was his stock they acquired. 01:24:09.329 --> 01:24:15.000 Because, I was thinking, that's what George had said, that they ended up acquiring the majority of the stock?Was that correct? 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:29.670 Well, and then, yes, and then when TP McAdams passed, basically, they acquired his share, so they basically the two Krumme brothers ended up being 100% shareholder. 01:24:29.670 --> 01:24:30.569 Right. 01:24:30.569 --> 01:25:13.960 And they had acquired Anadarko Bank shares and Security First National, and then they did some estate planning and kind of split it out, and Harlan's family took their Anadarko Bank shares, and and George and his family took Security First National, Community Bank, and then in 1990 they acquired the two banks in Heavner. And then, five years ago, they acquired Oklahoma Capital Bank. It evolved from Community Bank shares to Sooner Southwest was the tier company and Sooner Southwest now owns four banks, so. 01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:42.670 Yeah, okay, and I'm actually happy that I had visited with Mr. Krumme about that prior, because I kind of actually know what you're talking about. I have some, I have some background on that to understand what you're talking about. Um, was there any other history that you wanted to share about the Community Bank? Because it Community's just been such a, I mean, it's just always, it just seems like it's always been part of Bristow, you know. 01:25:42.670 --> 01:25:53.229 Correct. Yeah. No. It just, it kind of like the my life, we just, Community Bank kept plugging. 01:25:53.229 --> 01:25:54.310 Yeah, exactly. 01:25:54.310 --> 01:25:57.609 Not making too many waves, you know? 01:25:57.609 --> 01:26:18.600 Well, we love Community Bank. That's where, that's where we bank, and that's one thing that I told Mr. Krumme, I think the thing that I always loved about Community Bank and still do, is just the personal, the personal attention and the personal feel that you get whenever you you bank there. It's always been, it's always been, been our bank. 01:26:18.600 --> 01:26:33.600 Well, one of the things that I feel blessed, all the jobs I've ever had, I've never worked for anybody where they didn't try to do things the right way with the best of intention, you know. But didn't mean all the decisions were easy. 01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:33.989 Right. 01:26:33.989 --> 01:26:59.670 But you never had to worry about compromising your principles to do business there. When I worked for Mancel and I worked for Noel, I never saw them put a piece of equipment or anything on a vehicle that they wouldn't have done the same thing on their own vehicle. And back in those days, gas stations were kind of like used car lots. They weren't really high up on the trust. 01:26:59.670 --> 01:27:09.000 Right, right. You were infused with a lot of integrity throughout your life of working with the different the different jobs that you've had. 01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:10.109 Oh, yeah. 01:27:10.109 --> 01:27:13.829 Which I feel like the world is lacking a little bit. 01:27:13.829 --> 01:27:14.250 Yes. 01:27:14.250 --> 01:27:18.060 Now that's, that's good. 01:27:18.060 --> 01:27:25.770 Well, I mean, I never had any of them say, well, do that anyway. It may not be quite right, but, well, what's the right way to do it? 01:27:25.770 --> 01:27:31.439 Right. Which is important. We need more of that now. 01:27:31.439 --> 01:27:44.189 Yes, well, you know, and I won't quote but I mean, I've had one of the owners says, well, we shouldn't violate the pig rule, because we can have more. 01:27:44.189 --> 01:27:44.569 Right. 01:27:44.569 --> 01:27:46.159 Let's do the right way, right thing. 01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:49.010 Right, right. Oh, that's yeah, I agree. 01:27:49.010 --> 01:27:52.189 I mean, that's pretty simple times, but yeah, really meaningful, I think. 01:27:52.189 --> 01:27:57.979 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, do you mind if I just ask you a couple of fun questions? 01:27:57.979 --> 01:27:58.550 Certainly. 01:27:58.550 --> 01:28:11.329 Or I think they may be fun. I don't know. Um, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? 01:28:11.329 --> 01:28:15.979 Probably the cell phone if I was guessing most 01:28:15.979 --> 01:28:16.880 Good and bad. 01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:20.420 Yes, yeah, right, yes. 01:28:20.420 --> 01:28:29.090 I can't disagree with that answer. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 01:28:29.090 --> 01:28:47.149 Well, because of the cell phone and the access to information, good information and bad information, it's completely different because, you know, some things that would not have been, you know, 01:28:47.149 --> 01:28:48.260 Available? 01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:52.159 Right. You know, sometimes things are just better left unknown. 01:28:52.159 --> 01:29:20.359 Well, and I mean, exactly, and I feel like now, like it's kind of a double-edged sword of you, you're, you appreciate the connection. But then sometimes you want to not be connected, you know, all the time, yeah, where I think back then, before all of that, you could just, you weren't constantly connected with everyone.But, but oddly enough, I think phones have have also disconnected us. You know, as far as in person, being able to communicate with each other. 01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:45.539 You know, I talked about when I was in college, doing the old punch card, yes, write the program. When I came back to the bank in 1985 they had acquired their first computer. It was a $20,000 computer. It took literally five to 10 minutes just to boot up. 01:29:45.539 --> 01:29:47.000 My how things have changed. 01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:48.680 Well, and then it didn't do much. 01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:51.319 Yeah, I know. Yeah, right. 01:29:51.319 --> 01:29:54.529 So, I'm just saying, and now what you have 01:29:54.529 --> 01:29:58.340 Now, we have a pocket computer that we walk around with. 01:29:58.340 --> 01:30:01.130 Thousands of times of capabilities of that computer had on it. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0065_David_Barnett.xml OHP-0065_David_Barnett.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
David Barnett
Description
An account of the resource
David's parents, William Dotson Barnett and Syble Marie Horn Barnett, were sharecroppers. David, the youngest of seven children, attended Bristow schools and worked various jobs, including at List Motors and Mancel Murphy's gas station. He attended OSU, earning a degree in organizational analysis. David worked at Community Bank for 30 years, starting in 1974, and co-founded Barnett Operations, an oil field service business. He also served on several community boards and attended First Church of God since 1974. David shared about his wife Ellen and two children, Stacey and Blake. He also talked about his role in the community, including his involvement with the Industrial Authority and Community Bank. David reflected on the impact of technology, particularly the cell phone, and emphasized the importance of integrity and commitment in family and work.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0065
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2024-09-05
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/16ab984023610920057bf8bd798ee6f5.jpg
e99986bca5f438e2759fe88dc3dc810d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
David Hill
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 July 12, 2024 OHP-0059 David Hill OHP-0059 01:58:11 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory David Hill Monica Hill Regan Siler 1.0:|1(3)|64(7)|78(17)|102(6)|127(7)|145(10)|167(7)|191(8)|220(7)|267(4)|289(7)|311(7)|332(6)|351(3)|366(5)|395(11)|412(15)|420(13)|451(6)|462(16)|493(8)|501(13)|522(8)|552(4)|574(5)|599(9)|622(8)|658(5)|682(3)|696(9)|730(3)|760(7)|781(3)|819(13)|856(12)|874(17)|911(13)|928(3)|945(5)|960(14)|982(17)|1001(5)|1031(4)|1053(7)|1076(9)|1095(6)|1116(18)|1131(12)|1160(7)|1182(11)|1213(5)|1240(11)|1274(9)|1305(6)|1321(3)|1344(15)|1373(10)|1398(10)|1421(17)|1444(14)|1456(10)|1472(11)|1495(9)|1517(16)|1543(9)|1576(10)|1595(10)|1624(3)|1653(3)|1684(15)|1709(17)|1728(5)|1753(4)|1774(13)|1800(3)|1826(16)|1846(8)|1855(12)|1881(11)|1894(15)|1907(16)|1925(16)|1943(4)|1960(8)|1982(15)|2004(15)|2027(3)|2040(11)|2052(3)|2076(15)|2108(11)|2120(12)|2148(3)|2174(3)|2199(9)|2226(5)|2245(13)|2261(12)|2284(15)|2302(10)|2319(10)|2344(14)|2374(5)|2406(3)|2434(6)|2466(19)|2492(3)|2519(9)|2559(11)|2575(4)|2615(10)|2637(6)|2652(15)|2673(4)|2685(7)|2703(10)|2718(5)|2742(9)|2754(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0059 Hill, David.mp3 Other audio 0 Background RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 12, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Principal Chief David Hill and his wife, Monica Hill, at the Bristow Library Annex. They are going to tell us a little bit about their life and their history living in the Bristow area. Can you each state your full name, please?
 ; 
 ; DH: David Walter Hill.
 ; 
 ; MH: Monica Lynn Hill.
 ; David and Monica talk about their early life. They give their full names and the names of their parents and siblings. They were both born in Oklahoma. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Principal Chief ; David Walter Hill ; Monica Lynn Hill ; Talihina (Okla.) ; Stroud (Okla.) ; George Hill ; JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell ; Connie Lavon Deese Watson Baker ; John Robert Watson ; Jeanette Martin ; Janet Hill ; Sammy Hill ; Solomon Hill ; Lucinda Thomas Life ; Family 0 152 Parents RS: Lucinda Thomas. Okay. So, what type of work did your parents do?
 ; 
 ; DH: Best I can remember of my dad, I was only 11-1/2 when he passed away. He did kind of like the tree line service, where they cut the tree limbs, trees down, whatever. Then he went to Prescor in Sapulpa, and he was kind of like a maintenance person, I believe.
 ; 
 ; RS: And then your mom, did she just work in the home?
 ; 
 ; DH: More of a seamstress. She used to work at the garment factory here in Bristow. Then she went to Okemah [Oklahoma].
 ; David and Monica discuss their parents and the work they did. David's father worked doing tree line service, and then later as a maintenance person in Sapulpa at Prescor. His mother worked at the garment factory. Monica's father was a quarter horse jockey. Monica and her family were in California part of the year because of her father's job. Prescor ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Wrangler Jeans (Firm) ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Prague (Okla.) ; Okemah Hospital ; Raton and Colorado Centennial Park ; Los Alamitos (Calif.) ; California ; San Mateo (Calif.) ; Bay Meadows (Calif.) ; Depew (Okla.) Parents 0 324 Early Life RS: Exactly. Well, Chief Hill, I heard a birth story about you that I wanted you to share. Actually, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] and Jason [Salsman], both, told me about it, about you being born early and with the doctor and everything. Can you tell us about that?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, my youngest daughter, ShaVon [Shavon Britt Hill Agee], is always posting it during my birthday. Seven months, and I was four and a half pounds. And I didn’t notice ShaVon had talked to my mom about it. And I guess the doctor was wanting to know if he could adopt me. I guess she told him no. Said my mom’s going to take care of him, which I already had two brothers and two sisters, so, he thought it was going to be too much for mom. When ShaVon asked, well, did you ask grandma? She said, no. She said, but he didn’t know that. My name David comes, I guess they more or less the doctor picked the name for me. Picked David out of the Bible.
 ; David and Monica talk about their early lives. David was born early and named after the doctor. David talks about growing up in Gypsy, Oklahoma. Monica lived in a home in Depew, Oklahoma. ShaLae Hill Shaw ; Jason Salsman ; Shavon Britt Hill Agee ; Bible ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Wetumka (Okla.) Life ; Family 0 494 Childhood RS: Alright. Well, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. These are just kind of some fun questions to get to know you. So, Chief, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played when you were young?
 ; 
 ; DH: Not really. We, basically, played outside. We lived out in the country, and you know, Christmastime, me and my brother may get a basketball, football, and just whatever, and that was about it. Otherwise, we got in the woods running, fishing, hunting.
 ; David and Monica talk about their childhood. David was a country boy and loved playing in the woods. He spent lots of time with his cousins riding bikes and playing ball. Monica had a toy record player with plastic records that she played with frequently. She wrote letters to her friend, Tracy when she was away in California. The Beatles ; Felix Hill ; Danny Hill ; Franklin Hill ; Diana Jackson ; Richard Graham ; Howard Webb ; Randy Webb ; California ; Tracy Haskins Childhood 0 744 Hobbies RS: I’d imagine. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?
 ; 
 ; DH: Probably just playing basketball.
 ; 
 ; RS: Basketball. Always basketball? Was that your sport.
 ; 
 ; DH: Yes.
 ; 
 ; RS: What about you, Monica?
 ; 
 ; MH: I played basketball, but I wasn’t good like him. In California, it was like a park and recreation thing, and so they played full court. And then I came back home and they’re doing six on six.
 ; David and Monica both enjoyed playing basketball when they were young. David says he doesn't have much time for hobbies now but enjoys mowing the yard. He also really enjoys history and learning about the past. Basketball ; History Hobby 0 804 Family History RS: I agree with you. I feel like since I’ve been involved with the historical society, I have gotten more involved in history and learning about Bristow’s history, and it made me wish I would have paid attention, more probably, in school than what I did. But I find history super fascinating, too, and I’m sure with what you’re doing it’s really.
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, since we got married at a young age, we was a sophomore, I probably would have taken those classes in school, but I guess, it was ’91 ’92 when my grandmother passed away, me and my brother, Solomon, would always go visit with her. Mom [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024] had mentioned that she had, there’s 412 pages of old paper ledgers of Charley Coker. If you read the history, he was with Crazy Snake [Chitto Harjo 1846-1911] at the time.
 ; David talks about visiting his grandmother when she was alive. She told David about a 412-page ledger that Charley Coker had written. David had it translated during Covid from the old Creek language. They now have it safely stored in a safety deposit box. Solomon Hill ; JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell ; Charley Coker ; Chitto Harjo ; English ; Creek ; Washington D.C. ; William McKinley ; Franklin D. Roosevelt ; Covid ; Margaret McKane Mauldin ; University of Oklahoma ; Andrew Jackson ; Smoke Meat Rebellion ; Mel Hallin Bolster ; Robert J. Conley ; Cherokee ; Pierce (Okla.) ; Checotah (Okla.) ; Eufala (Okla.) History 0 1466 School RS: Incorporate some of that into there, potentially? Well, that’s SO interesting. Okay, well, let’s see. Let’s talk about your school life. You, I know, were between Depew [Oklahoma] and California with your school, and then did you, Chief Hill, go to just Gypsy [Oklahoma]?
 ; 
 ; DH: Gyspy.
 ; 
 ; RS: And that just, was it the same as it is now? It just went to eighth grade?
 ; 
 ; DH: Eighth grade.
 ; David attended Gypsy School through the eighth grade. Then he transferred over to Depew for high school. Monica attended Depew School. Monica says her favorite teacher was her kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Rigney. Molly Reeder taught Monica in third grade and also taught Monica's grandpa and mother and later Monica's daughter. Channel 2 did an interview about Mrs. Reeder teaching four generations. David is still in contact with his high school basketball coach, Roger Carter. Depew (Okla.) ; California ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Jimmy Jay Donaldson ; Mason (Okla.) ; Molly M. Ailey Reeder ; Linda Harrington ; Roger Carter School 0 1709 Favorite Subject RS: That’s awesome! So, were you guys involved in any clubs or organizations in school? I mean, obviously, you both really liked sports, but were you involved in any other activities in school.
 ; 
 ; MH: I don’t think Depew had.
 ; 
 ; RS: Didn’t have too much.
 ; 
 ; MH: Anything like that.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay. Did you have a favorite subject? And basketball doesn’t count.
 ; 
 ; MH: I liked math. I didn’t know that much about history then, so, now I do. Now everything is about history. It’s all I want to do is read books, but back then it was probably, I like math. I still like math and chemistry.
 ; 
 ; DH: I really can’t even remember. I only took algebra because of her.
 ; 
 ; RS: Was she in the algebra class and that’s what you liked. We know where you priorities were.
 ; 
 ; DH: And I got a spanking on her behalf, you know.
 ; David and Monica weren't involved in many activities in school besides sports. They both loved basketball. Monica says she enjoyed Math and Chemistry. David says he only took algebra because of Monica. Depew (Okla.) ; Algebra ; Basketball ; Chemistry subject ; School 0 1742 Family Homes RS: Oh, that’s funny. Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the houses you grew up in. What was your, what was your home like that you grew up in as a, as a kid.
 ; 
 ; DH: Mine was, more less, what they call a shotgun house. Dad had bought one from, I think it was Jimmy Talent, years ago, well, back in’64 or ’65. Moved there, and you know, it was just, just a square house.
 ; David grew up in a small shotgun house in Gypsy. Originally there was no bathroom, just an outhouse. Monica's family had a brick home in Depew. She remembers being referred to as the "rich girl" by other children. Monica's family also had an apartment in California to live in when they were there for her father's work. Creek Nation ; Gypsy School ; Jan Donaldson ; California ; Oklahoma ; All-American Futurity Home 0 2027 Mealtimes RS: What were meal times like with your family? Did everyone sit down and eat dinner? Tell me about a typical meal time.
 ; 
 ; DH: Ours, the elders would eat first. Kids were always last. When I think now, just breakfast, it was the same thing, eggs, bacon. But during dinner time it was, you know, like baked beans, potatoes. Because now it’s a four-course meal.
 ; David remembers mealtimes as a child. He says that the elders always ate first, then the children ate last. He recalls some of the traditional foods his mother fixed. He enjoyed cvtv hakv and sofke, which is like hominy corn. Monica recalls her father making chocolate fudge. She really enjoyed visiting Jack in the Box when they were in California. California ; Jack in the Box Meal 0 2293 Community Activities-Stomp Dances RS: Oh, wow! Interesting, okay. So, thinking back to growing up, probably more teenager time, were there any favorite community activities that you guys did. I don’t know, did you ever come here for Western Heritage Days or was there day camps, parades, county fairs, was there anything like that community related that either one of you were involved in as youngsters?
 ; 
 ; MH: As youngsters or, I mean like, once we met, we went to the stomp dances. So that’s probably what he did most all the time.
 ; David talks about the main community activity he was involved with was the stomp dances. He says many people think a stomp dance is similar to a pow-wow, but he says it is different. It is a sacred gathering. David says his ceremonial ground is Okfuskee and they dance four times a year. Western Heritage Days ; Okfuskee County (Okla.) ; IXL (Okla.) ; Highway 48 ; Okemah (Okla.) ; Castle (Okla.) ; Creek Nation ; Euchee (Okla.) ; Sand Creek (Okla.) ; Iron Post (Okla.) ; Kellyville (Okla.) ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma ; Alabama ; Trail of Tears ; Georgia ; Sammy Hill ; Green Corn ; Rick Shaw ; ShaLae Hill Shaw Stomp dance 0 2795 Church MH: Huh-uh, no. I mean my grandpa was Creek and he would, he had been, but he was more of a church and went to the [indecipherable] the Creek churches also. And, back then, it was more like, if you got to church, you don’t go to stomp dances, and his grandma had really embedded that in him a lot. Because she used to dance with them when she got to church, and so it was really a big division, so it was kind of, especially after we got saved, I wasn’t real sure about that division, about what exactly it was. So, when we went to the stomp dance all night and we got home at 8:00 in the morning, we took a shower and then we went to church. So, we did both. But now, there’s a lot of people that go to church and do the stomp dances, and it’s not that, it’s one, it’s not that they are worshiping the fire or anything like that. It’s the creator. We call our creator God or Jesus, and they call their creator, Creator. But it’s the same person. It’s just how they
 ; 
 ; RS: So, do you feel there’s less of that division now? Is that what you’re saying?
 ; David and Monica attended church growing up. Monica went to the Depew Church of God. David attended a church in IXL called Buckeye Church. Also, his uncle pastored Nuyaka Church. Monica says there used to be a division among people about church and attending the stomp dances. She believes it is a part of their culture and she doesn't believe a Christian is worshipping the fire. She says they call the creator, Creator and as a Christian she calls her creator God. Creek ; God ; Jesus ; Buckeye Church ; IXL (Okla.) ; Nuyaka Church ; Greenleaf ; Depew Church of God Church 0 2964 Favorite Businesses RS: Depew Church of God, okay. And that’s still there, isn’t it? Yeah, okay. So, whenever you were growing up, do you remember any particular, I guess, popular or favorite businesses that you frequented around town, whether it was here or in Depew?
 ; 
 ; DH: After we got married or younger?
 ; 
 ; RS: Well, I mean, I guess you were married young, so that’s kind of both ways.
 ; 
 ; DH: I guess, in between, it’s kind of funny, but my brothers, back then, everyone drug main. You drag main.
 ; David and Monica both drug main when they were younger. David would hang out with his older brother, Solomon, when he was young (probably seventh or eighth grade.) Monica hung out with her cousins, Eric and LaTonya Mayberry, and her friend Tracy. They would park at the 7-Eleven and watch everyone else go by because they weren't old enough to drive yet. David also mentions that the drive-in movies was also popular when they were younger. Depew (Okla.) ; Solomon Hill ; Eric Mayberry ; LaTonya Mayberry ; 7-Eleven, Inc. ; Bristow (Okla.) Business 0 3093 Automobiles RS: But not big on skating? Do you remember your family’s first car? What was your first car?
 ; 
 ; DH: 1969 Dodge Super Bee.
 ; 
 ; RS: A Dodge Super Bee, cool!
 ; 
 ; DH: I got that in eighth grade.
 ; David's first car was a 1969 Dodge Super Bee. Monica didn't have her license until after her and David were married. She did drive her mom's T-Bird around Depew when she was younger. David recalls a time that a highway patrol brought him home because he was driving before he received his license. Dodge ; Gremlin automobile ; Depew (Okla.) ; highway patrol Automobile 0 3214 Entertainment RS: Well, so, growing up, what sort of entertainment did you guys enjoy? Did you get to watch TV or anything like that? I know you, obviously, liked music because you had your little records and your cassette player.
 ; 
 ; MH: When I was in California, I went to Disneyland a lot and Knott’s Berry Farm.
 ; 
 ; RS: She didn’t have any idea what kind of life she was living, did she?
 ; Monica visited Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm when she was in California as a child. She also would go to the movie theater. Monica would drive the golf cart while her father golfed in Los Alamitos. She loved watching "I Love Lucy" as a child. David spent much of his childhood outdoors. He would play baseball and go hunting and fishing with his brother and cousins. California ; Disneyland (Calif.) ; Knott's Berry Farm (Buena Park, Calif. : Amusement park) ; Benji (Motion picture) ; Los Alamitos (Calif.) ; I love Lucy (Television program) ; Bewitched (Television program) ; Brady bunch (Television program) ; Partridge family (Television program) Entertainment 0 3410 Historical Moments RS: While he was swimming with the snakes. Okay, so, do you recall any, and I say it’s kind of related to TV, any pivotal historical moments as a kid? I guess, I’m thinking for some people that I’ve talked to, like they remember watching, you know, the astronauts land on the moon or whatever on TV. Was there anything like that for you guys that you remember that really stuck out to you on TV that you witnessed, a historical something-or-other?
 ; 
 ; DH: No.
 ; 
 ; RS: Because you were outside.
 ; 
 ; DH: I was outside.
 ; 
 ; MH: I remember being at my Grandpa Watson’s and there was something going on about the moon and the people, but I didn’t, at the time, realize what it was.
 ; David doesn't remember witnessing any historical events on television as a child. He was busy playing outside. Monica remembers being at her grandpa's house and hearing about something going on with the moon. She didn't realize then what was happening. Monica does remember when Nixon left and seeing him wave and get on a plane. She also remembers when Ronald Reagan got shot. Richard Nixon ; Sonny and Cher ; Ronald Reagan History 0 3530 Medical Care RS: Okay, so, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or was it more, did your mom or grandma have remedies or whatever that
 ; 
 ; DH: Just grandma.
 ; 
 ; RS: Just grandma.
 ; 
 ; DH: As far as if I had a tooth ache or anything, I remember just dad taking me to Okmulgee or mom just pull it out, you know. That was it. But I never, as far as sickness, I don’t remember going to the doctor. Any broken bones or cuts or anything.
 ; David said his grandmother had home remedies for illnesses. One remedy that his mother continued using was making grease from the fat of a skunk and using that as oil for treating earaches. Monica remembers seeing Dr. Krug here in Oklahoma at least once for medical care. Okmulgee (Okla.) ; Dr. Krug Medical Care 0 3711 Career Dreams RS: Alright, and then, so do you remember as a child what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; DH: Not really. Not until I started going to seventh, eighth grade, ninth grade, I wanted to be the first Creek to play in the NBA.
 ; 
 ; RS: Really?! Well, that’s cool!
 ; 
 ; DH: My idol was Spud Webb.
 ; David dreamed of being the first Creek to play basketball in the NBA. His idol was Spud Webb. Monica doesn't remember having a dream job as a child. She decided she would like to become a nurse after the birth of her first daughter. Creek ; National Basketball Association ; Spud Webb Career 0 3766 Early Married Life RS: Right. Well, so, I know that you had an interesting start in life, and I would like for you to tell us about that. I know you got together young and you were, had a baby young, can you tell us about that and your start together in life? So, you met him in eighth grade.
 ; 
 ; MH: And we got married, we were in the tenth grade.
 ; 
 ; RS: Got married in the tenth grade.
 ; David and Monica married when they were in the tenth grade. They were pregnant with their first daughter, ShaRee. They dropped out of school. Monica's mother wouldn't let Monica move out with David until he could get afford a place for them to live. They moved in together a few months after marriage and got an apartment that was part of the Creek Nation housing. Monica did not like being so far from her family and friends. They ended up moving into an apartment in Stroud. They did not have a lot of money but made the best of their life together. Creek Nation ; Okemah (Okla.) ; John Cassady ; Kool-Aid ; Cheeze-Its ; Atari ; Little Debbie ; Anchor Life ; Marriage 0 4178 Children RS: Oh, I bet! Okay, so tell me the names of your children, their names and their birthdates.
 ; 
 ; MH: ShaRee Brooke Hill, June 20, 1981.
 ; 
 ; RS: Okay.
 ; 
 ; MH: ShaLae Bree Hill [Shaw], July 21, 1982. ShaVon Britt Hill [Agee], March 14, 1986.
 ; 
 ; RS: And how many grandchildren do you guys have?
 ; 
 ; MH & ; DH: Seven.
 ; 
 ; MH: But we have two great niece and great nephew that ShaRee is raising.
 ; David and Monica have three daughters- ShaRee, ShaLae and ShaVon. They have seven grandchildren. ShaRee Brooke Hill ; ShaLae Bree Hill Shaw ; ShaVon Britt Hill Agee Children 0 4204 Further Education RS: Okay, all right. I know we talked a little bit before because of the way your life started out, you guys had dropped out of school, but you both went and got your GED later. You got yours first, was that right?
 ; 
 ; DH: Mm-hmm.
 ; 
 ; RS: And then you went into
 ; 
 ; DH: No!
 ; 
 ; MH: Yes, you got yours first.
 ; 
 ; RS: The aerospace industry and you told me you went.
 ; 
 ; MH: It’s kind of that competition thing. Oh, he got a GED. Well, I’m going to go get my GED. And I only missed on problem on my math, and that’s the thing they said no one’s never done that before.
 ; David and Monica both went and got their GEDs later after they had dropped out of high school. David went into the aerospace industry. He had a 30-year career in the industry. Monica attended Tulsa Community College for nursing. She attended with her mother. Aerospace ; Registered Nurse ; ShaRee Brooke Hill ; Tulsa Community College ; Tulsa (Okla.) Education 0 4377 David's Career MH: So, I’ll do that. So, when I went to school to become a nurse, I wasn’t really going to go to work then. It don’t really work like that because you need to work after became a nurse, so that’s how all that happened. Now, David, he got his GED just to have it, because they were offering it. And, then, later, because he worked at John Cassady (ph) and then he went to work for Clyde McGuire to operate the pulling unit. Clyde was really very good to him. He was like a dad to David. He went to church with us, and ended up being our pastor. But when the oil field went bad, he still kept David working welding and making stuff, you know, to make sure he had forty hours. David wanted to do something different. He was interested in the aeronautics and stuff, and so, he started going to school. Was that at Tulsa Air Park? Was that what it was called at the time? 
 ; 
 ; RS: Is that called something different now? Or is it dissolved?
 ; 
 ; DH & ; MH: I don’t know.
 ; David worked at John Cassady. Later he went to work for Clyde McGuire. Clyde was like a father to David. When the oil field went bad Clyde kept David working doing welding and other things. Then David became interested in aeronautics and started going to school for that. He started working at Nordam. He started at the bottom and kept working his way up. Clyde McGuire ; John Cassady ; Tulsa Air Park ; Tulsa Junior College ; Tulsa Community College ; Tulsa Technology Center ; Nordam Career 0 4499 Creek Nation Council RS: And, was it during that time, that you decided to run for the council? Were you at Nordam?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, yes, I was at Nordam, and also, before that, I got on the school board at Depew.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, okay.
 ; 
 ; DH: So, I was doing that.
 ; 
 ; MH: And the business board at Bristow Community Center, because it was like nineteen years before he from the time he started, he started at Nordam in ’89 and didn’t get on the council until 2008.
 ; David decided to run for council when he was 43. Before that he had been on the school board at Depew. He also was involved in the Bristow Indian Community Center. He became interested when talking to former representatives and they convinced David to run. He decided to run for council because he wanted to help the citizens. Council ; Nordam ; Depew (Okla.) ; Bristow Community Center ; Bristow Indian Community Center ; George Tiger ; Roger Barnett ; Creek Nation ; Jason Salsman ; Bill Fife Creek Nation Council 0 4670 Chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation RS: Okay. Was it just then, maybe, like a natural evolution for you to decide to run for Chief? Or what was the deciding factor to push you to want to run for Chief?
 ; 
 ; DH: I was, actually, asked to run four years before I did.
 ; 
 ; RS: Really?
 ; 
 ; DH: But, you know, I just felt like I wasn’t ready. You always get that feeling and, plus, we just prayed a lot. Is this the right thing to do? So, I just decided to wait four years and see how it goes.
 ; David was asked to run for Chief four years before he finally did. He felt like he wasn't ready and during that time he became the Second Speaker. David and Monica prayed a lot before his decision to run for chief. His first year in office was rough because of Covid. One big accomplishment during David's time in office has been the new complex. David is known to tell his team to just do it and get in there and get the job done. Chief ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma ; Jason Salsman ; Covid ; A.D. Ellis ; George Phillip Tiger ; James R. Floyd ; Greg Anderson ; Nike (Firm) ; Ray Siegfried ; Nordam Chief ; Muscogee (Creek) Nation, Oklahoma 0 5276 Accolades RS: Well, I know one thing that Jason [Salsman] kept kind of saying over and over is your compassion, caring about the people, that sometimes it’s what can the position do for me versus what can I do for the people, and that you’re not like that. You’re there to help the people. And I think it’s pretty evident by your leadership and how everyone speaks of you that I’ve talked to. And Jason just thinks you’re wonderful, and so from that, we’ll transition into some of your accolades. I saw where you were Time Magazine’s one of 2020’s most 100 Most Influential People. Can you tell me about that?
 ; 
 ; DH: That was, didn’t know what to think. I received that email, and I forwarded it to Jason [Salsman], and I said look at this. Is this legit? I said, I don’t know, why? Why me?
 ; One of David's biggest accolades is being named one of 2020's 100 Most Influential People in Time Magazine. Because of Covid they didn't have the ceremony that year, it just aired on television. David did go to New York with Jason Salsman eventually. The television crew did an episode on David and even came and talked to his family. His mother talked to them about The Trail of Tears in original Creek. It was recorded for the National Geographic.
 ; Jason Salsman ; Time Magazine ; Sharice Davids ; Kansas ; Covid ; Nightline (Television program) ; Sammy Hill ; Trail of Tears ; River Spirit Casino ; Seminole Tribe ; Choctaw Tribe ; Cherokee Tribe ; Chickasaw Tribe ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; National geographic ; Charley Coker 0 5652 Casino DH: That’s what I thought. Even our hotel at the casino, when me and Monica, they had to have a room, the top floor is just designated for me.
 ; 
 ; MH: Not the whole top floor, but
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, it is almost.
 ; 
 ; MH: It’s like a 2000 square foot.
 ; 
 ; DH: It’s the very end. The king suite. I don’t know why, oh, it’s the Chief’s Suite.
 ; 
 ; RS: The Chief’s Suite. Well, that makes sense.
 ; David and Monica have a designated suite at the hotel at the casino. It's a large section of the top floor and it's the Chief's Suite. David said it sometimes takes them 30 minutes to make it all of the way back up to their room because so many people stop and want to talk to them. Casino ; University of Oklahoma Casino 0 5724 Conferences DH: That’s even going out of state. Some different conferences that Monica goes with me. I get approached by other tribal leaders from other tribes. I mean, they just, what’s happened with the supreme court ruling really, like I said, the spotlight. It’s just not me.
 ; 
 ; RS: Have you gotten more comfortable with in that position of being in the spotlight? Because being a low-key kind of quiet, seems to me, individual that would be, I guess it just goes with the territory?
 ; 
 ; MH: I think he’s more comfortable.
 ; David attends many different events and conferences as the Chief. He was the first tribal leader to attend a conference in D.C. with the Supreme Court judges. David and Monica have even attended a Red-Carpet event in Hollywood. It was for the show Reservation Dogs. Washington D.C. ; Republican ; Supreme Court ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; California ; Reservation Dogs ; Hollywood ; Nightline (Television program) ; D'Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai ; Sterlin Harjo conferences 0 5985 Mo Brings Plenty RS: So, on that same line, because I personally want to know, how did you meet Mo [Mo Brings Plenty] from Yellowstone? Because I’ve actually seen him at the basketball games, which is, you know, an odd, it’s cool, but I love him on Yellowstone, and then I know he’s hung around here some with you. So, how did you end up meeting him?
 ; 
 ; DH: It was 
 ; 
 ; MH: Rez at Las Vegas.
 ; 
 ; DH: Well, I didn’t personally know him then.
 ; 
 ; MH: Well, that’s the first time
 ; David has become good friends with the actor Mo Brings Plenty. He played on the show Yellowstone. David and his brother, Solomon had small roles in the show "Lawman Bass Reeves" because of Mo. Mo has attended some of David's grandchildren's basketball and softball games. Mo has even visited David and Monica's home. Mo Brings Plenty ; Yellowstone ; Las Vegas (Nev.) ; River Spirit Casino ; Lawman: Bass Reeves ; Solomon Hill ; Paramount ; Rick Shaw ; Sarah Ann Haney-Brings Plenty ; Cole Brings Plenty ; Kansas ; South Dakota Mo Brings Plenty 0 6245 John Shepherd MH: Who they are or anything, so we were at festival and this guy comes up and he was doing movie, he’s a producer, I guess. We didn’t know, he was with another friend of ours that helped with our campaign that’s a model and actor. He’s been wanting to meet David and everyone said, he won’t meet you. He’s too busy. He don’t have time, you know. He came up to meet and greet, and so, we talked for an hour, and then
 ; 
 ; RS: And who was this?
 ; 
 ; DH: Shep
 ; 
 ; MH: Yeah, John Shepherd (ph).
 ; 
 ; DH: The one that’s doing the movie now that’s down here.
 ; David has also become acquainted with the movie producer John Shepherd. He filmed a movie recently here in Bristow. He came over to David and Monica's home for dinner and to visit. John then attended church with the Hills and even ate lunch with them after the service. John Shepherd ; Rick Shaw ; Billy Graham ; Los Arcos ; California ; Mo Brings Plenty John Shepherd 0 6473 Harvard DH: The other exciting thing I got to do was go to Harvard.
 ; 
 ; MH: Oh, I forgot about that.
 ; 
 ; RS: You went to Harvard?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, me and Jason [Salsman]. They interviewed us, speak to the classroom, so we get through, and we say we want you to sign a book. So, I went in and this actual book when the visitors come. What’s that prince’s wife? What’s her name?
 ; 
 ; MH: Oh, um. Who’s the prince?
 ; 
 ; RS: Kate? Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; MH: Was it Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; DH: Kate, yeah.
 ; 
 ; RS: Kate Middleton?
 ; 
 ; DH: Yeah, I signed right behind her.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; DH: And I thought, what am I doing signing, you know at Harvard.
 ; 
 ; RS: Oh, my goodness!
 ; 
 ; DH: It was just things like that.
 ; 
 ; RS: Blows your mind. Yeah, that’s crazy.
 ; David was also able to visit Harvard. David was interviewed and spoke to a class. They also wanted David to sign books. He ended up signing right behind Kate Middleton. Harvard ; Jason Salsman ; Kate Middleton Harvard 0 6511 Documentary MH: Oh, and they did a documentary. I don’t know if you’ve heard about that.
 ; 
 ; RS: I haven’t.
 ; 
 ; MH: Bad Press.
 ; 
 ; RS: The what? 
 ; 
 ; MH: Bad Press. So, when he was running for Chief, they wanted to know if they could follow us. They were following several of the candidates, you know. And I thought, I understood that it was about
 ; 
 ; DH: Elections.
 ; David was also in a documentary. It is called Bad Press. They followed David around when he was running for Chief. The documentary ended up winning many awards and even made it to the Sundance Festival. Documentary ; Bad Press ; Chief ; Sundance Film Festival documentary 0 6683 Wisdom RS: Well, I think right now that probably is the case, because you are SO busy all the time. Well, as we wrap up this interview, I’m wondering do each of you, do you have any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations to draw from whether it be, you know, from a married perspective or a work perspective…do you have any general advice or wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? I want both of you to answer.
 ; 
 ; MH: I’d have to think a while. I could really come up with something good if I thought a while. Number one is the Lord first. The Lord first and He will take of everything. David and Monica finish the interview with some words of wisdom. Monica says to put the Lord first and He will take care of everything. David agrees with Monica that you have to keep the Lord first. He also talks about how he would not go back and change things in his early life. He says that would change everything and where he is today. Wisdom ; Chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation ; ShaLae Bree Hill Shaw ; ShaRee Brooke Hill ; ShaVon Britt Hill Agee ; Mekko ; Columbus ; Charley Coker ; Bristow Historical Society Wisdom 0 MP3 David and Monica talk about their early life together, their family, their careers and what their life has been like during David’s terms as Principal Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 12, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Principal Chief David Hill and his wife, Monica Hill, at the Bristow Library Annex. They are going to tell us a little bit about their life and their history living in the Bristow area. Can you each state your full name, please? DH: David Walter Hill. MH: Monica Lynn Hill. RS: Okay, and do I have permission to record this interview? MH: Yes. DH: Yes. RS: Okay. So, can you each tell me when and where you were born? DH: November 6, 1964 in Talihina [Oklahoma]. MH: December 13, 1964, Stroud [Oklahoma]. RS: Okay, and were your born in a hospital or at home? DH: Hospital. RS: Hospital. And what about you, Monica? MH: Hospital. RS: Hospital, okay. Can you each tell me about the people in your family? So, let’s start with your parents. Chief Hill, can you tell me what your parents’ names are and if you had, and that includes any step-parents you might have had. DH: My father was George Hill [8/16/1919-1976] and my mother was JoAnn Hill [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024]. RS: Okay, and what about you, Monica? MH: Connie Baker [Connie Lavon Deese Watson Baker] and John Watson [John Robert Watson]. Mom’s middle name was Deese. RS: Okay, and no step-parents for either of you? MH: Yeah, for maybe a year, but RS: That’s okay. DH: Same here. About three, three or four years. RS: Okay, that’s fine. Chief, do you have any siblings? DH: I have two brothers and two sisters. RS: Two brothers and two sisters. Can you tell us their names? DH: Both sisters are twins. The oldest one is Jeanette, Jeanette Horse [Jeanette Martin]. My other sister, Janet Hill. And my brother is Sammy Hill and Solomon, Solomon Hill. RS: I did not know Solomon was your brother. I’m learning something new. Okay, and then what about you, Monica? MH: I have a sister, Lucinda. RS: Just one sister? Okay, and what’s her full name? MH: Thomas. Lucinda Thomas. RS: Lucinda Thomas. Okay. So, what type of work did your parents do? DH: Best I can remember of my dad, I was only 11-1/2 when he passed away. He did kind of like the tree line service, where they cut the tree limbs, trees down, whatever. Then he went to Prescor in Sapulpa, and he was kind of like a maintenance person, I believe. RS: And then your mom, did she just work in the home? DH: More of a seamstress. She used to work at the garment factory here in Bristow. Then she went to Okemah [Oklahoma]. MH: Wrangler Factory. DH: Wrangler Factory there. Then Chandler [Oklahoma]. Not Chandler. MH: Prague [Oklahoma]. DH: Prague, I believe. RS: So, she was pretty much always a seamstress, then? DH: Now she did work at the hospital, Okemah Hospital for as a cook. RS: Okay, and then Monica, you had kind of an interesting story about what your dad did, especially. MH: Want me to tell that? RS: Yeah! If you want, go right ahead. MH: Well, he was a quarter horse jockey, so we traveled a lot. In the early, like when I was two and three, it was like Raton and Colorado Centennial Park, but then maybe around ’68, ’69 right before I started school, he started riding in Los Alamitos [California]. So, we would leave here in October and go to Los Alamitos and he would race a couple months there and then we’d leave and go up to northern California to San Mateo and he would ride at Bay Meadows for a couple months. Then we’d come back to Los Alamitos, which is southern California, and he would do that meet. They would fly me home, because I started school in August and school didn’t end there until June, because they started in September, so they would fly me home for the last three or four weeks of school. I’d do that. Stay there for a couple weeks, fly me back out to California and then a week before the meet, school starts, so they’d fly me back home in August to start again. Then they would come home for three months and then we’d start again in October. RS: So, you had quite an interesting childhood growing up, then. MH: Yeah, I didn’t know it at the time. I didn’t like it. I wanted to be normal like everybody that’s mom and dad goes to work and he comes home. But, now, I’m like, gosh, I wished I would have known to enjoy it instead of complaining all the time. I just want to live in Oklahoma. I just want to stay in Depew. It was good. I got to meet a lot of people and do a lot of different things that I didn’t really realize until I was older. RS: Got to see a lot of things and experience a lot of things that, otherwise, you wouldn’t have living in just Depew, right? MH: And always on the go. You know, almost prepared for this here, because it’s like, it’s no difference than that. You’re always on the go. You’re always packing and unpacking. RS: I feel like trying to even schedule this appointment was tricky, because you guys are always going somewhere it seems like. MH: We ran home, and I unpacked, and I was like, oh, I’m going to have to do this again on Thursday. RS: Exactly. Well, Chief Hill, I heard a birth story about you that I wanted you to share. Actually, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] and Jason [Salsman], both, told me about it, about you being born early and with the doctor and everything. Can you tell us about that? DH: Yeah, my youngest daughter, ShaVon [Shavon Britt Hill Agee], is always posting it during my birthday. Seven months, and I was four and a half pounds. And I didn’t notice ShaVon had talked to my mom about it. And I guess the doctor was wanting to know if he could adopt me. I guess she told him no. Said my mom’s going to take care of him, which I already had two brothers and two sisters, so, he thought it was going to be too much for mom. When ShaVon asked, well, did you ask grandma? She said, no. She said, but he didn’t know that. My name David comes, I guess they more or less the doctor picked the name for me. Picked David out of the Bible. RS: Oh! Okay. DH: And my middle name, Walter, was named after the doctor. RS: Wow! Okay. Well, that’s neat. So, are you the youngest of your siblings? DH: Yes, I’m the youngest. RS: Okay, okay. And then growing up did each of you have family that lived nearby? MH: All my family was in Depew and Bristow, so when we were home, they were nearby. My aunt was next door. My grandpa and grandma and everybody was in town. RS: And then what about you, David? Where did you grow up? DH: I grew up in Gypsy [Oklahoma]. RS: In Gypsy. DH: Just south of Bristow. All the family lived there. My aunt and uncle, we actually still lived on the allotted land that was given to our grandfather back in the early 1900’s. RS: Okay, is that land still in your family? DH: Yes. RS: Okay, okay. So, has your family always been in the Gypsy/Bristow area? DH: As far as my sisters RS: Or when did your family, I guess, come here? DH: ’63 right before I was born. We lived in Wetumka [Oklahoma]. In ’63 moved to Bristow. My dad, my uncle, my aunt all moved at the same time to where we’re at now. RS: Okay, so all the family just lived out, so like how much land? DH: Hundred and sixty-eight. RS: Oh, wow, okay. And then you had, did you live, Monica, did you live in town in Depew? Did you have land? MH: House in Depew. RS: In town? MH: Yeah. RS: Alright. Well, let’s talk a little bit about your early childhood and home life. These are just kind of some fun questions to get to know you. So, Chief, do you remember having any favorite toys or games that you played when you were young? DH: Not really. We, basically, played outside. We lived out in the country, and you know, Christmastime, me and my brother may get a basketball, football, and just whatever, and that was about it. Otherwise, we got in the woods running, fishing, hunting. RS: Right. I like that, though. What about you, Monica? MH: I liked my toys. Because I would have to pack up my favorite toys to take with me. RS: To take with you. MH: Yeah, because I’d leave most of that stuff, but I had RS: Do you have any particular memories of particular toys or whatever that you liked? MH: Yeah, it was a little thing that played records, but the records were kind of plastic, like you see, like toys, except it was The Beatles. It was like Let It Be and some of those songs. And then I had a tape recorder, and that was my favorite thing, is I taped my dad. I taped my grandpa. I’d pretend like I was a reporter, and I, that was the main thing I did all the time. RS: You don’t have any of those anymore, do you? Any of those recordings? MH: I have them, but when I tried to play it, it said “grrrr”. RS: Oh no! MH: I hate it. RS: Oh no! That would be fun to still have. Did either of you have chores that you were expected to do whenever you were growing up? DH: No, not really. RS: Not really? DH: Yeah. RS: So, you just got to hang out and be in the woods, huh? What about you, Monica? MH: I bet your mom would say different. I bet you had chores. You probably had to take the trash out. Or you might not have. DH: No, I was the youngest. MH: She had to remind you all the time. DH: I was the youngest. RS: So, you were the baby. You probably got spoiled a little bit, huh? What about you, Monica, did you have any chores? MH: Well, I can’t really think of any chores. DH: Yeah, see! MH: I mean, I made my bed. DH: She was spoiled! RS: Well, it sounds like she had a pretty cool life, honestly. I know that it wasn’t exactly what you probably wanted as a young person, but, like you say, looking back now, it’s like, wow, you got to experience a lot of things. So, did you have friends that came over and played with you when you were young or did you mainly hang out with your siblings? DH: Now as far as friends, my cousins, there was like, we lived on the east side of the creek and they lived on the west side. Felix [Felix Hill] was probably two years older than I was. Danny [Danny Hill] was probably four. Franklin [Franklin Hill] was the same age as my brother. And we all, basically, just played together. Had bicycles. Rode down the dirt road. RS: You had built in best friends with cousins, didn’t you? DH: Yeah. RS: And then what about you, Monica? Did you have, well, you were probably, it was probably tough for you, wasn’t it, to have MH: Well, my friends were here. RS: Right. MH: So, yeah, I had best friends here, girls and boys. My mom went to Depew and so did her best friend Neva and Diana Jackson, and they all three married three guys from Bristow who were friends, so Richard Graham (ph) and Howard Webb, and so then, we were all like, me and Randy (ph) were six days apart, Randy Webb. And then, Brenda is a few months older than us. So, we were all that same age, and so they would do things together and so we would play together. But California, mainly, it was babysitters, I had like babysitters that were like three or four years older. Someone that would come stay with me if I didn’t go to the races and would play games. RS: So, whenever you were out there, with it being a different time, obviously not having social media and cell phones, were you able to stay in contact with your friends back home? Did you write letters? Did you get to call them or did you just have to wait until you came back? MH: Yeah, I’d write letters. Tracy Haskins (ph) was like my best friend. She was from Bristow, and she moved back to Depew and she’s actually kin to me. I’d write letters with her. But other than that, it was back when I came home. RS: When you came back. MH: Because those kids out there, because I had an accent. I didn’t think I had an accent, and then I wore jeans and boots. RS: And that was probably different than MH: Yeah, now my dad said if I’d have came back later after we moved back, everybody was an urban cowboy and you’d have fit in so. RS: I’d imagine. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child? DH: Probably just playing basketball. RS: Basketball. Always basketball? Was that your sport. DH: Yes. RS: What about you, Monica? MH: I played basketball, but I wasn’t good like him. In California, it was like a park and recreation thing, and so they played full court. And then I came back home and they’re doing six on six. RS: Yeah, I’m from the half court era, too. Do you, so, how have your interests changed over time from being a young person to now? Do you have any hobbies now that enjoy? I mean, I know you guys have grandkids and stuff like that. Are you too busy to have any hobbies? DH: Yeah, other than just mowing the yard, that’s it. RS: Just mowing the yard. DH: I like history now. Now it, I guess in the, what I’m doing now as a job, learning the history. RS: I agree with you. I feel like since I’ve been involved with the historical society, I have gotten more involved in history and learning about Bristow’s history, and it made me wish I would have paid attention, more probably, in school than what I did. But I find history super fascinating, too, and I’m sure with what you’re doing it’s really. DH: Well, since we got married at a young age, we was a sophomore, I probably would have taken those classes in school, but I guess, it was ’91 ’92 when my grandmother passed away, me and my brother, Solomon, would always go visit with her. Mom [JoAnn Hicks Hill Powell 12/26/1935-4/26/2024] had mentioned that she had, there’s 412 pages of old paper ledgers of Charley Coker. If you read the history, he was with Crazy Snake [Chitto Harjo 1846-1911] at the time. RS: I actually read a little bit about him prior to this interview. DH: She had all these old documents that he wrote, I want to say 80% is in the Creek language, but it’s written the way it sounded to him. He couldn’t speak or write English. Or Creek. He just wrote it the way it sounded to him. RS: So, are you still in possession of those? DH: Yeah. Mom gave them to me. But there’s more ledgers that are missing, it appears. That’s when I kind of started checking into it, looking into it, to see who Charley Coker was. Then I started reading the history on Chitto Harjo, which was Crazy Snake. He had like three or four different names. What they did back then in the early 1900’s before statehood, before Oklahoma became a state, they were fighting for to keep it, ironically, as a reservation back then. RS: They didn’t want statehood, right? MH: Or allotments. DH: Or allotments. It was very traditional. They wanted to keep it as a reservation, so they, actually, fought against the government. MH: Well, they knew what would happen. DH: Yeah. RS: Right, so, with those ledgers, are you able to, since he just wrote them as, I guess, it sounded to him, are you able to translate them? DH: Some of it. If I keep on reading it. That’s why I wished I was more fluent in learning the written history. MH: But even some Creek people can’t. DH: He wrote it, some will say it’s the old language. RS: The what? DH: There’s old language that they say, as far as Creek, and mom was one of them that could speak the old language. Now how years kind of went by RS: That has kind of faded? DH: Yeah, we didn’t have Creek words for car, airplanes or anything like that, so they kind of made it up as they go along. But there was original language that was spoken back then, and mom was one of them that could speak it. And we feel that’s the way he wrote it out when he wrote. There’s letters from Garfield back in 1906. I know it never made it to him because I’ve got the actual envelope and letter. RS: Oh my gosh, that is priceless! DH: And there’s letters that he’s written that they went to Washington D.C. to meet William McKinley, Roosevelt…and he spelled it in Creek on how to pronounce the name. So, there’s interesting information there. I did have, during Covid year, it was kind of shut down. So, a lot of our projects, our language department didn’t have anything to do, so I just asked them, would y’all want to do me a favor. So, I separated all the pages I had and had three of them just write it out. What do you think it was saying? But they wrote it in the Creek language, so I’m going to have to translate that back into English. MH: [Indecipherable] DH: Margaret Mauldin [Margaret McKane Mauldin] who is a teacher at OU [University of Oklahoma], translated one picture, or one letter that was written. It had 1799, Andrew Jackson, and she translated to say that on this day, 1799, Andrew Jackson came through the camp with 3,000 Spanish soldiers and killed some person [indecipherable] or something. She couldn’t figure that out. I still have the actual letter. RS: That’s amazing! So, are they in your possession or do you have them at the headquarters or? DH: It’s at a bank. MH: Safety deposit box. RS: Yeah, I was gonna say, that’s absolutely priceless. DH: But I had them microfiche, microfilm, CD. I put them all on that. RS: And you said there’s like 400 pages? DH: About 412 pages. RS: And have they gotten very far in deciphering. DH: They did all of it. RS: Oh, they did all as best they could. DH: Yeah, so I have to go in and figure out what was said. RS: I’m going to have to circle back to find out whenever you get to the point of, I guess, deciphering all of that, because that’s amazing. DH: And that’s where it becomes interesting, because I asked mom, because Charley Coker passed away before mom was born, but just what grandma had told him. And I was wanting to have all that translated when grandma was still alive but didn’t get a chance to, and so I asked mom, because I have to ask her permission. Can I have these translated? And she was afraid of the stories that she was told that the law enforcement was chasing after him because, she heard that he stole horses. There was two books written, the “Smoke Meat Rebellion” by Mel Hallin Bolster and Robert Langley [Robert J. Conley], he’s Cherokee, wrote a book about Crazy Snake. And if you read that, and also the historical society in Oklahoma City, I got their information. It was actually called the Smoked Meat Rebellion back in the early 1900’s. 1906, 1907 where they chased after, four military groups chased after Charley Coker and Crazy Snake. Because they were as a battle at around Pierce, Oklahoma, Checotah [Oklahoma], Eufala [Oklahoma] area where they chased after them. RS: So, how did your mom, how did she get these? DH: I guess, I don’t know if she was the oldest daughter of Charley Coker, but when he wrote all this down. MH: It’s grandma. The daughter of him. RS: Oh, so your grandma is Charley Coker’s daughter. MH: And, so, she kept all that hidden under her bed, because back then, she never spoke anything but Creek. She never spoke English, but people were after them, you know, because RS: So, she was basically trying to protect. MH: And hide, because she was afraid that they would find DH: They would find it. MH: Yeah, and still be after them, too, even though they are gone, you know. DH: As of today, the family members are the only ones that knows where Charley Coker is buried. Because they put some of the belongings, like his ball sticks or maybe his gun or rifle is buried WITH him, and they were afraid of the non-native knowing where he was buried, they’ll dig him up. RS: Well, now I’m really going to have to go back and research, because that’s a super interesting story to know the connection of your grandmother and your mother. DH: Well, that’s as far as me, I couldn’t speak English until I was in the second grade. RS: Really? So, you spoke completely Creek? Wow! And have you always been able to speak English or can you speak the Creek language? MH: Oh, no. I can only speak English. I mean, my grandpa was Creek, so he got to like [indecipherable] to count and animals and food and stuff. And David, I said he taught me the important words like cepo fvmpe, stinky butt. RS: You know I’m going to have to revisit that and have you tell me how to spell that, because I have no idea. Well, that’s, so, Chitto Harjo, how was that person related? Was that person related at all? DH: Well, mom had told me that Chitto Harjo’s brother was actually Charley Coker’s dad. I mean, there’s no way to find that out, and I don’t know for sure. RS: Don’t know for sure. DH: That’s just what she had said. RS: That’s so neat. DH: Actually, he came through here, Chitto Harjo, came through Bristow at one time. RS: Do you know when, like the date? DH: No, Paula Atwell is the one that told me. She had something RS: Paula Atwell is my go-to gal for history stuff. DH: She’s actually the one that told me about it, probably 10-15 years ago, maybe. RS: Wow! That’s so neat. Well, be expecting a call from me because I would like to know whenever you do get those, I guess, translated. That would be amazing to know what they all say. DH: All the old papers are brown. I mean, you can’t hardly. RS: You have to be very, very, yeah. DH: So, I had to hurry up. MH: That’s why we have copies of them. We did the spray the stuff to protect it and all that, but it still. RS: They still, well, you can only imagine, probably, what those papers went through all those years of being in different climates and under beds. DH: Well, see, I did the wrong thing and put them in Ziploc bag. And they told me not to do that. RS: Moisture. DH: Because once I open it, well, that fresh air. It’s just better to leave them open and lay. RS: I didn’t know that. How interesting! Will those end up going into any type of, do you have, you know, kind of like what we have, the historical society here. Does the tribal headquarters have something like that? DH: We don’t yet. We’re looking to, actually, I was on a committee when I was a national council representative for a museum. But at the time, we purchased the council house and some other things and it got put on the back burner, but we’re gonna do a welcome center that’s in process, so, maybe, hopefully. RS: Incorporate some of that into there, potentially? Well, that’s SO interesting. Okay, well, let’s see. Let’s talk about your school life. You, I know, were between Depew [Oklahoma] and California with your school, and then did you, Chief Hill, go to just Gypsy [Oklahoma]? DH: Gyspy. RS: And that just, was it the same as it is now? It just went to eighth grade? DH: Eighth grade. RS: Okay, alright. MH: Eighth grade is the year that we, me and my mom came home to stay. And, so, otherwise, I wouldn’t have met him, because I wouldn’t have RS: Why don’t you tell, why don’t you tell the story of how you met Chief Hill. MH: Well, we were playing basketball against Gypsy, and Gypsy didn’t have enough girls for a team, so it was just the boys. And, so, I cheered also for the boys, so, I went to the basketball game at Gyspy and I told my friend Molly, I said, oh look at that #44. He’s cute. And she was like, yeah, and so is #41, which was his cousin. Then it just kind of went from there because a lot of the kids that were at Gyspy, like Jimmy Jay Donaldson. He’d come to Depew and then he’d go back to Gypsy and back and forth. So, once he knew that I liked him, and he was teasing him about me and all that. Then he came to school the next year in the ninth grade. RS: So, you did the transfer from Gypsy to Depew and did high school at Depew. DH: Depew. But I did MH: I always say had I not stayed home that year, if I’d kept doing what we were doing, I wouldn’t have ever met him. DH: If I didn’t meet her, I probably would have went to Bristow, because I had Coach Scott. RS: Right. DH: I didn’t realize he came to a basketball game. We was playing basketball, which Gypsy’s not the full length basketball court, and I guess he saw me throw the ball halfway across the court. RS: And then he wanted you to play football! DH: He wanted me to play at Bristow, but my cousin, all my cousins live in and around Mason [Oklahoma], and they wanted me to come to Mason and play basketball. But since all my brothers and sisters and my cousins here went to Depew, I went to Depew. RS: So, did you guys enjoy school? Did you enjoy going to school? DH: I did, but she MH: I don’t know. I liked basketball. RS: So, you weren’t as in to academics as you were sports? MH: Oh, yeah, I did make good grades. I guess it wasn’t…it might have helped that I went to so many different schools, because the school part, work was easier. RS: It was easier for you. Did you have any influential or favorite teachers during that time that stick out to you? MH: Well, Mrs. Rigney (ph) was my kindergarten teacher. RS: Mrs. who? MH: Mrs. Rigney (ph) and we all loved Mrs. Rigney (ph), but Mrs. Reeder, Molly Reeder [Molly M. Ailey Reeder 11/21/1922-10/27/2017], her, she was our third-grade teacher. Now, she taught my grandpa, and then she taught my mom in third grade. And then she taught me in third grade. RS: Oh, wow! MH: So, they did a thing in the newspaper. And then she taught ShaRee [ShaRee Brooke Hill], so then Channel 2 came down because it was four generations that she had taught us, so. RS: Oh, wow, that’s cool! MH: She’s precious and special to everybody at Depew. RS: Well, that’s neat. And what about you, Chief? DH: As far as my favorite teacher? RS: Were there any teachers that you felt were influential to you or maybe a favorite? DH: Probably third and fourth grade, probably Mrs. Harrington, Linda Harrington. RS: Linda Harrington, okay. MH: High school though. DH: Huh? MH: High school. DH: Oh, high school? Probably my basketball coach. Roger Carter. RS: Roger Carter. DH: We still talk. He told Monica he texted me the other day, and he still calls me his point guard. RS: That’s awesome! So, were you guys involved in any clubs or organizations in school? I mean, obviously, you both really liked sports, but were you involved in any other activities in school. MH: I don’t think Depew had. RS: Didn’t have too much. MH: Anything like that. RS: Okay. Did you have a favorite subject? And basketball doesn’t count. MH: I liked math. I didn’t know that much about history then, so, now I do. Now everything is about history. It’s all I want to do is read books, but back then it was probably, I like math. I still like math and chemistry. DH: I really can’t even remember. I only took algebra because of her. RS: Was she in the algebra class and that’s what you liked. We know where you priorities were. DH: And I got a spanking on her behalf, you know. RS: Oh, that’s funny. Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the houses you grew up in. What was your, what was your home like that you grew up in as a, as a kid. DH: Mine was, more less, what they call a shotgun house. Dad had bought one from, I think it was Jimmy Talent, years ago, well, back in’64 or ’65. Moved there, and you know, it was just, just a square house. MH: But they moved that house out onto your land. DH: Yeah, and there was no bathroom, so they had to, dad and my uncles had to build a bathroom in it. Otherwise, it was an outhouse. I tried to tell my daughters that, and they couldn’t believe it. It was my mom and dad in one bedroom. And me and my other siblings, five of us, in one bedroom. Then our grandmother was kind of off and on stayed with us, and my cousins, who I always considered them my aunt and uncle, Johnny, Terry and Mary, they stayed with us. So, you’re RS: Oh, wow! DH: It wasn’t even, how big is your mom’s house? MH: About a thousand square feet. DH: It was probably a thousand square feet. Just a small kitchen. RS: Which is probably why you were outside a lot, huh? DH: Yeah. RS: Yeah, well, that’s interesting. So, was it, I’m guessing, you probably didn’t have air conditioning or, no air conditioning? DH: Just one of them old coolers, you know. RS: So, how long, so they built a bathroom on? So, how long did you have the outhouse situation? DH: Oh, I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you. Probably a couple years. Two, three years, maybe. MH: But how old were you when they built the other house? DH: I was born and raised over there at the other one. Probably, I can’t even remember, so, it had to be four or five. RS: You were little. DH: Yeah. RS: So, you had that house and then they built another house? Is that what you’re saying? DH: No, I’m sorry. They had another house by my aunt and uncle. And I was probably one, two, maybe, three. MH: No, I’m talking about DH: Then they built that house. MH: That your mom is living in now. That house. That’s what I’m talking about. DH: I think it was ’76, ’75, dad got a house and mom through Creek Nation. It was one of the first to get an original house that was being built. That was ’74, ’75 maybe? MH: So, you lived in that house a long time. RS: So, is the original shotgun house still standing? DH: No. RS: It’s gone. And what about you, Monica? MH: Me? Oh. RS: What was your house like? MH: Just a brick house, living room, bedroom, three bedrooms, two baths. DH: I thought she was rich. MH: Well, evidently somebody did, but I didn’t know. I’d go stay with my great aunt in Gypsy, and then I would, when I’d spend the night, I’d would ride the bus to Gypsy School, switch to the high school, then ride with the high school kids. They were all older, you know, and I’m real intimidated because I’m probably just seven or eight or something. Right as we come in town, we go past our house, and I hear somebody say, real derogatory like, oh that’s where the little rich girl lives. And I look up to see where the little rich girl lives and it was my house. And, so, I thought it sounded like they don’t like her, that little girl, so I sat back down and was kind of hiding. Then Jan Donaldson, she was a teenager then, and she knows who I am and my mom and everybody, and so she just looked at me winked and smiled that it was okay. But I remember thinking, I didn’t know I was a little rich girl. Nobody told me. I didn’t get everything I wanted. RS: So, did you dad make, I’m guessing, a pretty good living as a jockey. MH: Yeah. RS: I would think if you’re traveling back and forth from California to Oklahoma as much as what you were. MH: I know that we built that house and then it seems like he won a race and paid the house off. It was the All-American Futurity. It’s a big race. RS: Oh, wow! MH: It’s a million-dollar race. He didn’t get a million but it’s the richest quarter horse race. RS: Right. That’s interesting. MH: Then we had an apartment in southern California that we kept. RS: That you stayed in when you were out there. MH: And then the one in northern California we’d just rent for a couple months. The one in southern, we kept all the time, so, we had two homes. RS: So, see you probably were considered a rich kid then. I bet no one around here knew anything, a life like that. MH: But I was like those kids don’t even know me. I was thinking they don’t even know who I am, so how would they. RS: What were meal times like with your family? Did everyone sit down and eat dinner? Tell me about a typical meal time. DH: Ours, the elders would eat first. Kids were always last. When I think now, just breakfast, it was the same thing, eggs, bacon. But during dinner time it was, you know, like baked beans, potatoes. Because now it’s a four-course meal. RS: Right. DH: And you had to eat everything. You know, mom always made us. If we fix it, you gotta eat it. RS: No leftovers. DH: Monica gets on to me. She said you eat too much now. That’s just the way we grew up. RS: It’s engrained in you from MH: He has to clear his plate. You don’t have to clean your plate. Stop when you’re full. But you did a lot of traditional food. I mean, your mom cooked traditional food all the time. RS: So, tell me what some examples of traditional food would be. DH: Blue bread, what we call cvtv hakv. She would make that. RS: Say that word again. DH: Cvtv hakv. RS: Cvtv hakv. DH: And sofke it was kind of like hominy corn. She would make that. MH: It’s a drink and you use lye. DH: It’s a drink, yeah. RS: Oh wow. Anything else? MH: Grape dumplings. DH: Grape dumplings. It was kind of a dessert for me. RS: So, grape dumplings. What is that? DH: I don’t even know how you fix it. RS: Like what does it consist of? Like is it actual grapes? MH: Grapes, yeah. DH: And they make, they get the color from corn hulls. MH: Seems like I remember you saying that. DH: Now I can’t think. Corn hulls and they beat it. Kind of gets the color of purple. I think now they use like grape juice. Modernized. Got civilized. RS: So, the elders ate first. Was that because it was a small kitchen or is that just traditionally what you would do? DH: It’s just traditionally. Even at the churches when we took, when I went with grandma. Mom, we always took grandma to the churches. She went whenever she wanted to go but that’s just the way it was back then. The elders ate first. The kids ate last. But it’s different now. You want the kids to eat first and get them out of the house. Some of the tradition has kind of gone away. RS: Yeah, I agree. And then, so what about you, Monica, how were meal times at your house? MH: During race time, it was just me and momma until Sundays and then mom would always cook. Sometimes she’d still cook. RS: But didn’t you say you had a sister? MH: Yes, but I didn’t get a sister until I was 11, so I forget. RS: Oh, okay. MH: I mean, I’m thinking back when I was little. RS: Right, when you were little. MH: But mom, I mean she cooked for me and her and then dad, but my dad a lot would stop at Jack in the Box, because they had that in California back then. They didn’t have it here. So, he’d stop at Jack in the Box on the way home, and that was my favorite thing. We’d stay up until 11:00, 11:30 and eat Jack in the Box with my dad. RS: She didn’t even know what kind of life she was living. DH: Yeah! RS: She had no idea! MH: When we’d come back here, though, she’d cook, and my dad cooked a lot. My dad made chocolate fudge. It’s a big thing, because everybody likes daddy’s fudge. I still have the thing on it. And he barbequed a lot. And I remember he made brown beans one time and corn bread, and he put so much sugar in it, but bubbles and that’s how I make my corn bread, too. Gotta have a lot of sugar in it. DH: Cake. RS: Is it good? DH: It’s good. RS: Does that mean it’s good? So, did you have any favorite things that you ate that your mom cooked or your grandma cooked? DH: Just everything they cooked. RS: You just liked everything? Okay. DH: And I dare to say, it’s not near as good as mom, I don’t tell mom. MH: Sofke is your favorite. I mean everyone knows he wants sofke anytime he goes somewhere. DH: Yeah, every. RS: And what is that again? MH: That’s the hominy. RS: Okay. See, I’m learning. I didn’t know. DH: You better eat it the first day. Some people eat the second day, third day. MH: And add sugar to it and let it ferment. RS: Oh, wow! Interesting, okay. So, thinking back to growing up, probably more teenager time, were there any favorite community activities that you guys did. I don’t know, did you ever come here for Western Heritage Days or was there day camps, parades, county fairs, was there anything like that community related that either one of you were involved in as youngsters? MH: As youngsters or, I mean like, once we met, we went to the stomp dances. So that’s probably what he did most all the time. RS: So, that was more of your community activity was stomp dances. Can you tell me about stomp dances? DH: Most people think it’s similar to pow-wows, but it’s different. My ceremonial ground is Okfuskee, which is anybody knows where IXL is at, it’s just straight south on 48 (Highway 48) before you get to Okemah or Castle. Which we dance four times a year. And the dances don’t start until like midnight. Dance until 8 in the morning. And that’s where, there’s sixteen ceremonial grounds within Creek Nation that are Creek. There’s two, there’s three that are Euchee, Euchee grounds. There’s Sand Creek, right beside where mom lives. MH: Iron Post. DH: Iron Post. It’s Sand Creek and Iron Post, but the same. Then you got one in Kellyville [Oklahoma], but they all, that’s where they all get together. RS: So, can you tell me, because I’m not sure that I know, and I’m sure people listening would want to know, like what is the purpose of a stomp dance? DH: It’s just something that started years ago as traditional, culturally related. You have, even though I’m the chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation, each ground has their own Mekko, that’s their chief. That’s what they call them, Mekko. RS: Mekko. DH: And they’re appointed by people. And that’s lifetime position. MH: Appointed by that ground. DH: By that ceremonial ground. MH: It’s their ceremony, and it’s just from the very beginning. They brought the fire. Tell them how they brought the fire from each ground in Alabama. DH: They say there’s a big, kind of like a rock, kind of like a coal, and when you hear the stories of the Trail of Tears, they say they brought the fire with them. That’s, basically, what they’re talking about. They brought the coal with them all the way from Georgia and Alabama back here. And you find the location you want to dig it, so it’s three foot in the ground where then you measure off where your arbor, for your Mekko’s arbor, your warrior’s arbor. We have four arbors at our camp, but there’s some that only have three. And there’s certain ways it has to be set, you know, like the Mekko’s camp always like you’re facing the east. And the warriors sit on each side. Like I say, we have different, we just recently had ours a couple weeks ago. First time without mom, and probably had 13 visitors, because we was the only ones dancing. Like this weekend, you’ll have MH: Not 13 people. Thirteen different grounds. DH: Different grounds. MH: They’re people. DH: So, we probably had 3-400 people there? RS: So, I guess, is it just DH: Gathering? Ceremony? RS: Is it like a…I don’t want to say party, but I mean is it a celebration? DH: It’s a gathering, socializing. MH: It’s kind of sacred. RS: Sacred? DH: Yeah, sacred. RS: Okay, and when you say warriors on each side, what does that look like in today’s terms of warriors? Or I guess, who would be deemed a warrior? DH: Your kind of given a name after you go. I haven’t been since after dad passed away, then that’s when I met Monica, so I went straight to work. And I only went during Friday or Saturday but come back home, so I haven’t been given a name yet. After so long you get to participate. They’ll actually give you a name, who you are. You have the Mekko, which is the chief. Then you’ve got kind of like a speaker, called the heneha. Then you’ll have a medicine man. Then you’ll have another position. There’s like four positions at the ceremonial grounds. Which, my brother Sammy [Hill], he’s a tvstvnke. That’s kind of like the head warrior. RS: Can you say that word again? DH: Tvstvnvke. RS: Okay. DH: It’s kind of like the head warrior. And he’s, basically, got the same, almost the same rights as the chief, makes a lot of decisions or he kind of tells the Mekko or the chief, you know, what needs to be done. And, like I said, when you have dance, you’ll have different ceremonial grounds that come and help, join. Because you want to help your fellow community grounds. RS: Right. And I guess, does everybody dress in? No? DH: It’s just jeans. MH: It’s not pow wow. RS: So, that is different? That’s a different DH: Everyone has their regalia. Now they may wear a ribbon dress. The only time is like what we call Green Corn. All the men, we have to get there like 8:00 and without eating or drinking, get up, and we have to sit around a fire at the camp ground. And the medicine man will make some medicine for us, and all the men have to drink the [indecipherable] four times. RS: Interesting. DH: It’s kind of hard to describe. RS: Well, I’m sure it probably is when it’s something that is so rooted and sacred and rooted in your culture, but for someone like me, it’s interesting to me to hear, even if I don’t fully understand it, I like to hear…I feel like other people would MH: There’s a leader that leads the stomp dances [indecipherable] on the other grounds, they’re grounds will have a leader also, and they’ll take turns leading and, so, they’ll sing, then they follow behind them, and then it’s like a woman DH: The women will wear, back then, traditionally, was turtle shells. They would drill a hole in the shell itself and they would put rocks, usually river rocks and they’ll wear them around their legs. MH: Now they do cans a lot. DH: They do milk cans. MH: Little Milnot cans and that makes the shaking noise. RS: The noise? DH: Yeah. MH: You usually have a [indecipherable]. DH: Men, yeah it’s men, female, male, female. RS: So, do you feel that that’s important for, say, like your kids and your grandkids to be a part of to understand that culture and tradition? DH: Yeah, I think it is. The daughters, which, my son-in-law, Rick [Shaw], he’s not native, but he’s really interested. He’s wanting to learn. And that’s what they both, ShaLae [ShaLae Hill Shaw] said, too, that she wished she would have learned more, the culture and history. RS: Right. DH: You don’t realize it until you get like thirty or forty. RS: I don’t know why it always takes until you’re older to appreciate, because I feel the same way about history, too, I’m 50 now, and it’s taken me until, really, the last several years to really be interested and appreciate the history. I don’t know why when you’re young, you just don’t, you’re not as invested in it as you probably should be. DH: You know, I guess it’s different back then, when I was growing up. You know, television only went 2, 6, and 8, whatever. You didn’t have all these games. You didn’t have cell phones back then, so that was just embedded in us that weekend, we’ve got to load up and the truck or the vehicle to go to the dance. You know, Friday, Saturday, leave Sunday morning. RS: Is it something that you enjoyed and looked forward to? DH: I did, yeah. Until something occupied me later, you know. But she went with me. RS: So, did you enjoy it as well? MH: Yeah. RS: Had you experienced anything like that prior to getting with Chief Hill? MH: Huh-uh, no. I mean my grandpa was Creek and he would, he had been, but he was more of a church and went to the [indecipherable] the Creek churches also. And, back then, it was more like, if you got to church, you don’t go to stomp dances, and his grandma had really embedded that in him a lot. Because she used to dance with them when she got to church, and so it was really a big division, so it was kind of, especially after we got saved, I wasn’t real sure about that division, about what exactly it was. So, when we went to the stomp dance all night and we got home at 8:00 in the morning, we took a shower and then we went to church. So, we did both. But now, there’s a lot of people that go to church and do the stomp dances, and it’s not that, it’s one, it’s not that they are worshiping the fire or anything like that. It’s the creator. We call our creator God or Jesus, and they call their creator, Creator. But it’s the same person. It’s just how they RS: So, do you feel there’s less of that division now? Is that what you’re saying? MH: Yeah, you have people, church people and, because it’s culture. And it’s we’ll lose that, and they want that part of the culture and want to learn it and want to have that to pass down, also. So, there’s people that do both. RS: So, then, whenever you were young and you were going, it was more, that was kind of your church, for lack of a better way to put it. And you didn’t go to like an actual church? MH: No, he did both. RS: Oh, you did both? Okay. MH: Because he would go with his grandma. DH: We only went from the spring to fall, so in between if we weren’t dancing, mom would always take grandma. Which I went, too. MH: To church. RS: To church. And where did you attend church at? DH: Grandma just started at one church. It’s called Buckeye, Buckeye Church. But it’s right there at IXL, but before then, she just went wherever. Nuyaka Church, where my uncle’s pastor of Greenleaf, a lot of your traditional churches. It was about all weekend. RS: Really, and, so, what did MH: They have camp houses at those churches. And, so, they go and they camp there all weekend and have church. RS: Oh, okay. And where did you attend church? MH: Depew Church of God. RS: Depew Church of God, okay. And that’s still there, isn’t it? Yeah, okay. So, whenever you were growing up, do you remember any particular, I guess, popular or favorite businesses that you frequented around town, whether it was here or in Depew? DH: After we got married or younger? RS: Well, I mean, I guess you were married young, so that’s kind of both ways. DH: I guess, in between, it’s kind of funny, but my brothers, back then, everyone drug main. You drag main. RS: Right. DH: So, if they went to the dance, I stayed home. Well, my brother Solomon said if you go with me, back seat was the only place I could stay. So, I drug main with them, and I had to stay in the back seat. RS: You had to stay in the back seat. DH: So, I was dragging main when I was seventh and eighth grade. RS: So, you were cool then? Do you remember any, I’m just trying to get a feel for as a teenager or whatever, I guess maybe what you guys did, obviously, you drug main. What were some things you did as a MH: Same thing. RS: Drag main? MH: Yeah, with my friend Tracey [indecipherable] was her older sister, so they’d let us or my cousin Eric and LaTonya Mayberry. LaTonya was older and, so, me and Eric was probably in the eighth grade, and she’d take us, of course, she would do that, she would leave us in the back or she would leave us parked at the 7-Eleven, and she’d go off with someone else, and we’d have to sit there and not old enough to drive to watch everybody go by until she came back and got us. RS: And was that in Bristow? MH: Yeah, down there at the, what is it now? RS: Kum & ; amp ; Go. DH: But I guess the popular thing was the old drive-in. RS: Okay. MH: Yeah, we did that a lot. RS: The drive-in? Okay, see that’s kind of, I guess, trying to think back to the businesses that were around at that time and what you did. MH: I forgot about that. Because you’d get out and sit on the car and visit. DH: The skating rink. MH: I wasn’t much on the skating rink. DH: I didn’t go to the skating rink. RS: You didn’t go to the skating rink? MH: I mean, the church went once in a while, but RS: But not big on skating? Do you remember your family’s first car? What was your first car? DH: 1969 Dodge Super Bee. RS: A Dodge Super Bee, cool! DH: I got that in eighth grade. RS: In eighth grade?! DH: My brother, since my dad passed away, me and my brother got the VA checks. So, he was wanting to buy a brand-new car which was a Z28, I think, back then? He said if you make my first car payment and insurance, he said, I’ll let you have this. RS: That was a sweet deal! Well, that’s cool. So, you had a cool car then? DH: Well, I thought it was. MH: I like power steering, power brakes and air conditioning. DH: It had an air conditioner. Just roll down the windows. MH: And an eight-track and you’d have to fold up a piece of paper to put underneath it, so it would, otherwise it would get loose. RS: It would jiggle. So, what was your first car? MH: I didn’t even have a license when we got married, so when we got married, you had that car. Once in a while it was running. Most of the time it wasn’t, and so, he came home one day and he’d bought us a car, our first car. And I was like, oh, I think my mom and dad went together to get a car, and it was a Gremlin. A tan Gremlin! And it was a standard, and I mean, I just barely got my driver’s license anyway. RS: So, who taught you how guys how to drive? Do you remember? DH: My brother. RS: Your brother taught you how. DH: Solomon. RS: Okay. And then what about you? MH: Momma. RS: Your mom taught you how. MH: But in Depew, you could drive in the eighth grade, so she had a T-Bird and I got to drive it around town. DH: I think I drove probably sixth or seventh grade. MH: Yeah, he was in the ninth grade without a license and he’d come to Depew. DH: Actually, I had a highway patrol bring me home. RS: Oh, no! DH: I don’t even think I ever told Monica. The old Talent store in town. I think we needed milk or eggs or something and I got in the car and took off. Well, it stopped on me. RS: And how old were you? DH: I was probably seventh or eighth grade. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: So, it stopped on me and he pulled up and brought me home. RS: Did you get in trouble? A little bit? DH: But I got whatever I needed. Eggs or milk, whatever my sisters needed. RS: Well, so, growing up, what sort of entertainment did you guys enjoy? Did you get to watch TV or anything like that? I know you, obviously, liked music because you had your little records and your cassette player. MH: When I was in California, I went to Disneyland a lot and Knott’s Berry Farm. RS: She didn’t have any idea what kind of life she was living, did she? MH: I didn’t go to Disneyland as much as Knott’s Berry Farm, but we might go to Knott’s Berry Farm once a month or something, me and my friend. They’d drop us off and let us do stuff, ride rides and then pick us up. And the races. Or the movie theater, we got to drop us off and then you just watch movies all day. You know, Benji and stuff like that. I think it was a dollar cinema. It wasn’t like a money thing. That’s because it was California. RS: You had a whole lot of opportunities that people around here didn’t have. MH: My dad golfed a lot at Los Alamitos like on Saturdays, so I’d go with him and drive the golf cart. And then he roped on Sundays when he wasn’t racing. So, I went to a lot of ropings. DH: We, like I said, me and my brothers, my cousins, there was probably eight of us, we’d play baseball outside. We would go fishing, hunting together. Or we would walk down the dirt road from our house all the way to my cousin’s house. And I don’t know what their scientific name is, but we call them mountain boomers, them lizards. And we’d just chase them. I mean, it looked like they were dinosaurs. RS: You guys were living two different kinds of lives. DH: And we would climb the trees, the biggest trees we had. And it wasn’t volleyball, but the smaller basketballs, instead of playing tag where you throw it at each other, we would get in the trees and throw it at each other in the trees. Whoever got hit had to come down. RS: This is creative play, right here. While you were at Disneyland, they were throwing balls at each other in the tree. MH: Now I went to the beach a lot, too. That was creative. DH: We went to the pond. RS: You went to the creek or the pond. DH: We swam in the pond with the snapping turtles and snakes. RS: And the water moccasins. So, I guess there wasn’t probably a lot of TV watching or anything like that growing up? DH: We didn’t. RS: Not for you? DH: Summer time after school or when school wasn’t in, we would go outside. You could hear mom or my sisters yelling like 4:30, 5:00. I mean you could hear them yelling. Said it’s time to come home and eat. That was our cell phone back then. RS: Yeah, exactly. MH: I watched a lot of I love Lucy. RS: Was that your favorite show? MH: Yeah, that Bewitched and The Brady Bunch. I mean it wasn’t like the nighttime. They were already in, whatever you call that. RS: Right. MH: Showing after school. RS: Right, right. Okay. MH: Partridge Family. RS: While he was swimming with the snakes. Okay, so, do you recall any, and I say it’s kind of related to TV, any pivotal historical moments as a kid? I guess, I’m thinking for some people that I’ve talked to, like they remember watching, you know, the astronauts land on the moon or whatever on TV. Was there anything like that for you guys that you remember that really stuck out to you on TV that you witnessed, a historical something-or-other? DH: No. RS: Because you were outside. DH: I was outside. MH: I remember being at my Grandpa Watson’s and there was something going on about the moon and the people, but I didn’t, at the time, realize what it was. RS: Realize what was going on. MH: Yeah, and I remember the president, whoever the president was, talking on there about it. But then other historical things I remember Nixon when he left, waving and getting on that plane. Also, because I was interrupted, Sonny and Cher. That was my favorite show. Yeah, but the show that actually IS on TV, you know at nighttime. It wasn’t in syndication was Sonny and Cher. RS: It was Sonny and Cher. MH: But I remember that and then Ronald Reagan. I remember when he got shot. RS: Oh! MH: Were we married yet then? RS: You would have been. MH: That happened in ’81, didn’t it? In January or something or ’81 [March 30, 1981]? It happened around the time we got married, because we got married in January of ’81. RS: Okay, so, what was medical care like for you growing up? Did you have a family doctor or was it more, did your mom or grandma have remedies or whatever that DH: Just grandma. RS: Just grandma. DH: As far as if I had a tooth ache or anything, I remember just dad taking me to Okmulgee or mom just pull it out, you know. That was it. But I never, as far as sickness, I don’t remember going to the doctor. Any broken bones or cuts or anything. RS: So, you never really had any sort of major illnesses or, I don’t know, anything that you encountered within your family? Just pretty much handled everything at home? DH: Just relied on grandma. RS: Did she have particular remedies that she concocted or do you remember? DH: The one thing I know mom still carried on was she would fix an ear ache. RS: And how would she do that? DH: She would get the fat from a skunk. MH: That’s what I was fixing to say, skunk oil. DH: Made grease out of it and drop in your ear. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: Actually, I have my cousins call me, probably a couple years ago and asked me if mom was still doing that. I swear she had, she could heal you from anything. Grandma lived to be 91. RS: Well, I had done an interview with, I didn’t do an interview, excuse me. I worked on a, we had received some cassette tapes from the library. They were old, and one of them that I worked on was Winey Harjo, and I don’t remember how old she was at the time of the interview. I think she was in her 90’s, but she talked about some really interesting remedies and stuff that they did. I think she was born maybe in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. I mean she was, because the tapes were old, and she was old on the tapes, but I thought it was super interesting, the things that they used just around them to heal, like different things off of trees. It was pretty neat to listen to. MH: They have medicine that they use for the ceremonials, but then there’s like, I know that his mom would say that’s, that there is the women’s medicine. We had some growing down by the pond. And then she told us what she could do with that helps arthritis and things like that. RS: I need some of that. That’s interesting. So, how was medical care for you? I’m guessing you probably just had a regular doctor? MH: I don’t really remember having to go to the doctor. I remember being back here it seemed like I probably seen Dr. Krug for something one time. RS: Okay. MH: And I don’t really remember seeing a doctor in California. RS: Alright, and then, so do you remember as a child what you wanted to be when you grew up? DH: Not really. Not until I started going to seventh, eighth grade, ninth grade, I wanted to be the first Creek to play in the NBA. RS: Really?! Well, that’s cool! DH: My idol was Spud Webb. RS: Okay. DH: Because he was only 5’7. RS: Well, that’s neat. What about you, Monica? MH: I don’t ever remember wanting to do anything. I don’t know why, but I don’t ever remember saying I want to go to work. RS: Or to be a particular anything whenever you grew up? MH: I mean when I was 16 after I had ShaRee, after we had a baby, then I was like I think I want to be a nurse someday. RS: Right. Well, so, I know that you had an interesting start in life, and I would like for you to tell us about that. I know you got together young and you were, had a baby young, can you tell us about that and your start together in life? So, you met him in eighth grade. MH: And we got married, we were in the tenth grade. RS: Got married in the tenth grade. MH: He went to work for, was it Manpower? Something like that. DH: Mm-hmm. Through Creek Nation. And I was, worked at the senior citizen in Okemah [Oklahoma]. Which I delivered the food to the elders. And I was just their maintenance guy. I mowed the lawn, do whatever they needed. RS: And this was at 16, 17? MH: Sixteen. RS: Okay. DH: When I got through, I mean I finished everything, and I asked them what they need, and well, they had me quilting. I was quilting and visiting with the elders there. Some elderly Creek citizens I knew would speak to me in Creek, and, so, I made conversation with them just watch them play dominoes and do whatever. And then they had me doing ceramics, pottery. RS: You were doing all kinds of things. DH: I just whatever they needed me to do. MH: That was January until June, because we got an apartment, one of the Creek Nation apartments. RS: But, so, you met in eighth grade. You got married in tenth grade because you were pregnant with ShaRee. Okay, and then so he was doing that. You were staying home? You both dropped out of school, right? Okay. And, so then, pick up from there. MH: Oh, you want me to tell the awkward part about how we didn’t live together or? RS: Yeah, I mean. MH: I mean it’s really strange. RS: No, I want, because I remember you, when we talked before, you telling me about that, so, yes. MH: Mom said we could get married, but we couldn’t live together until David had a job and could afford to have us a place to live. And, so, which, basically, what it is, is your pregnant back in the day. You need to be married, but I’m not really ready for you to be married and be out of the house. RS: Right. MH: I still want you to be my kid. So, he would come over in the evening. Then he’d say good-bye. He’d go to his mom’s house. Then he’d get up and go to work. Then he’d come back the next day. That’s what we did until June, and we got an apartment at, I guess he must have put it in for Creek Nation housing, and they had apartments there, and he was working in Okemah [Oklahoma]. And, so, we’d go down there, and I mean, we don’t have anything except for wedding gifts and, and I had my old stereo and my little pink thing of records, which I still have. And take what little stuff we have down there, but I’m like crying. I’m just, I don’t want to live down there. RS: So, that was in Okemah [Oklahoma]? MH: Yes. Seemed a long ways at the time. RS: Right. MH: And not to be by my mom, and I don’t know any of these people and they were strangers. RS: So, were you pregnant at the time or did you already have ShaRee? MH: No, I’m pregnant. RS: Pregnant, okay. MH: And, so, we move our little stuff and we get back, and my grandpa Doug calls. My mom’s dad. And he works at John Cassady (ph), he’s kind of up there at John Cassady (ph), and he called. And it’s not like mom had called him or anything, because we didn’t have cell phones back then, and we just walked in the door, so he called out of the blue and told David there was a welder’s helper job available. And would he want to come to that. Would he want to come apply for it. And, so, David went over there and got that job and we went and got all our little stuff from Okemah [Oklahoma], and ten days later we had an apartment in Stroud [Oklahoma]. June 10th was the first time that we lived together, and so my aunt had told us, Gail, you guys, she didn’t want us to get married. She said you’re not going to even be able to afford pop. She was trying to be on a teenage level, saying you can’t even drink pop. You know, you won’t be able to afford pop and all that. So, when we got married, and we got our little apartment, we bought Kool-Aid and sugar because I knew we couldn’t afford pop. So, they would go to work. RS: Because you were told you couldn’t afford pop. MH: Yes, they’d have Kool-Aid. We’d fix supper, do the dishes. We’d drink our Kool-Aid and eat our Cheez-Its and we’d play cards until we saved up and got an Atari. And then we could play Atari after he got home from work. And, then, once we got ShaRee, I’d feed her, his turn I’d give him the baby and the bottle and then I would play Atari, just back and forth. That’s what we did. We went to stomp dance on the weekends and church on Sunday. RS: And this, and so, at this time you guys were, what, probably seventeen when she was born? MH: No, we were sixteen. RS: You were still sixteen. MH: Yes. RS: Oh, my goodness. MH: He turned sixteen in November and I turned sixteen in December, and we got married in January. RS: So, looking back at that and how you guys made it through that, and you know, obviously, you know that’s not, there’s not a lot of success stories from starting off like that. What type of lessons did you learn from your life together starting out in that way? What lessons did you take away from that do you think? MH: Well, we got saved the next year when we were seventeen and started going to church. RS: And you feel like that made a huge difference in your? MH: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nothing would be like this if it wasn’t for the Lord, and you’re married for life. I mean, that wasn’t even an option. You know, my mom and dad had been divorced. That just wasn’t an option. And I really think because we were so young, we grew up together, and so we liked the same things and learned the same things at the same time. DH: Even though we are opposite. MH: Yeah. RS: Right, right! MH: Sometimes it’s like we are brother and sister because we argue, not argue, but like, you know just that kind of little thing sometimes it’s a sister, brother thing. It’s kind of weird though. RS: So, did you have any rough, rough periods since you started off so young together or did you, were you just committed to each other and determined to make it work? MH: I don’t remember any rough or any problems other than, I mean, we worried probably about finances, but we never missed a bill or, because my mom said you pay all your bills, even if you can’t buy groceries, you pay your bills. And, so, that was a big thing was to our bills. RS: That’s a lesson that a lot people these days need to learn. MH: We may eat bologna, which I like bologna and Little Debbie snacks and stuff like that. And I sewed a lot. I sewed our clothes. DH: Not our clothes, the girls. MH: Yeah, I didn’t sew your clothes. Not then. I do now, but you would. I remember the first time we went to Anchor and got a hamburger and French fries and brought it home. I felt so, you know when you go and make a big purchase and you kind of worried that you shouldn’t have done that? RS: Like remorse? MH: That’s what that hamburger and French fries did. Yes! Just for that, because we didn’t do that. We didn’t spend money like that. You’re making four dollars and something and hour, so you have all these things you’ve got to pay for. RS: Right. MH: But I remember that. DH: Hamburger did taste good. RS: Oh, I bet! Okay, so tell me the names of your children, their names and their birthdates. MH: ShaRee Brooke Hill, June 20, 1981. RS: Okay. MH: ShaLae Bree Hill [Shaw], July 21, 1982. ShaVon Britt Hill [Agee], March 14, 1986. RS: And how many grandchildren do you guys have? MH & ; amp ; DH: Seven. MH: But we have two great niece and great nephew that ShaRee is raising. RS: Okay, all right. I know we talked a little bit before because of the way your life started out, you guys had dropped out of school, but you both went and got your GED later. You got yours first, was that right? DH: Mm-hmm. RS: And then you went into DH: No! MH: Yes, you got yours first. RS: The aerospace industry and you told me you went. MH: It’s kind of that competition thing. Oh, he got a GED. Well, I’m going to go get my GED. And I only missed on problem on my math, and that’s the thing they said no one’s never done that before. DH: Well, I will say that she can read the day before whatever test and knock it out. RS: And knock it out of the park. DH: But me, probably RS: Little more studying? DH: Two or three months. RS: Okay, I mean, I guess I want to make sure that it is, you know, like I said, with the way that you started out, I feel like you guys are an absolute success story from how you raised your kids to you both ended up getting your GED’s to you had, what, about a 30-year career in the aerospace industry? You became, Monica, you became a nurse, which tell me about that, getting your RN. MH: Well, from the time that I had ShaRee, I had, which I thought was a nurse was Beverly, when I was in labor and delivery, and I just loved her. Later, I found out she was a nurse aide, so I didn’t even have to go to school to be a nurse, but anyway, so I thought if I’m ever going to go to work, that’s what I want to be. And, so, that’s what I thought when I got my GED. When my mom, when the oil field went bad, so mom needed to do something else, and so, we decided we were going to go to nursing school. RS: So, you went to nursing school with your mother? MH: Yeah, we went to the Tulsa Community College at the time. And, now, I may have told you the first day that we went, and so I took fifteen hours because to get the BIA grant, I had to take fifteen and mom just took twelve. So, when I get home, I never heard of a syllabus, and I thought fifteen hours, that’s nothing. I mean, that’s three days, five days a week. We go to school six or seven, so I’m thinking of normal school. RS: Right. MH: So, I get home, and they have these syllabuses and they tell you everything that you’re going to do, all these book reports, all these oral reports you’re going to give in the class. On each one of those classes, and it was just overwhelming, and I was crying, and I was RS: What have I gotten myself into? MH: Yeah, I was yelling at the couch praying asking Lord, why did you let me do this? And, then, I knew I had to because my mom couldn’t drive to Tulsa all the time for it. And I remember the Swan’s man coming and I was crying when he got there. But, anyway, had it not been for mom, I don’t know that I would have done it, because I still had three little girls. They were in school and stuff like that. And then I also say it has a lot to do with my aunt. Because my aunt, her whole life was about her daughter’s basketball and her school. And, so I thought some day when we don’t have any kids, I don’t want to be where I don’t have anything of my own. RS: Right. MH: So, I’ll do that. So, when I went to school to become a nurse, I wasn’t really going to go to work then. It don’t really work like that because you need to work after became a nurse, so that’s how all that happened. Now, David, he got his GED just to have it, because they were offering it. And, then, later, because he worked at John Cassady (ph) and then he went to work for Clyde McGuire to operate the pulling unit. Clyde was really very good to him. He was like a dad to David. He went to church with us, and ended up being our pastor. But when the oil field went bad, he still kept David working welding and making stuff, you know, to make sure he had forty hours. David wanted to do something different. He was interested in the aeronautics and stuff, and so, he started going to school. Was that at Tulsa Air Park? Was that what it was called at the time? RS: Is that called something different now? Or is it dissolved? DH & ; amp ; MH: I don’t know. RS: Don’t know? Okay. I wasn’t sure because I wasn’t familiar with that actual name. I didn’t know if it was like Tulsa Junior College turned into Tulsa Community College. MH: I didn’t know if Tulsa Air Park is now Tulsa Technology Center? DH: I don’t know. MH: That’s what I was kind of thinking, but I don’t know for sure. RS: Well, that’s actually something I can look up later. So, then from the oil field, David, you got into the aerospace industry, and you started at Nordam. Is that correct? Can you tell us a little bit about that? DH: I started, I don’t really want to say, at the very bottom, but just cleaning parts and getting them prepped for paint. And afterwards, I just, I was the type, especially learned the work habits that John Cassady (ph) and Clyde McGuire, you know, just hurry up and get the job done. Go to the next one. So, when I got there, I did the same thing. Just made sure all the parts were clean, so I was running out of parts. So, they started showing me how to, which I already knew how to drill, install rivets and stuff like that, and I just kept on learning. RS: Started moving up? DH: Yeah. RS: Did you enjoy the aerospace industry? DH: Yeah. I did. RS: And, was it during that time, that you decided to run for the council? Were you at Nordam? DH: Yeah, yes, I was at Nordam, and also, before that, I got on the school board at Depew. RS: Oh, okay. DH: So, I was doing that. MH: And the business board at Bristow Community Center, because it was like nineteen years before he from the time he started, he started at Nordam in ’89 and didn’t get on the council until 2008. DH: Yeah, in between then we started going to the Bristow Indian Community Center. And once I started, I don’t know, probably what a year, not even a year, I knew there was an election coming up, because our former representative, which was George Tiger and Roger Barnett would report to us on what the Nation was doing. I never really was involved with Creek Nation being at that age. Once they started coming, I was kind of interested what they were doing. RS: Piqued your interest. DH: I just kind of asked them, so what all do you got to do? Well, the election is coming up. You ought to run. I didn’t have a clue anything about the government side. RS: How old were you at that time when you decided to run for council? MH: Forty-three. RS: And you didn’t really even know what you were getting into, but you felt led to run? Was it because of them? MH: Well, he was on the business board for the community, so he was doing, like you have Creek Nation then you have your different communities, so he was already at that small side of the community and the casino and that, and so then it was just kind of bigger picture that you would take all of that Creek. DH: I loved what I was doing on the board. I wanted to do what I can for the school board for the school, for the students, for the teachers. And I figured just bigger picture here on Creek Nation side. You know, I wanted to help our district was Bristow, everyone in Creek District. I wanted to help the citizens. So, that’s what RS: What inspired you. Okay, and then I know when I was talking to Jason [Jason Salsman], he, well, so, Jason feels like you’re very well-respected and that you held a lot of peer-chosen positions within the council. Is that correct? DH: Once I got on the council, yeah. There was, you serve on different committees. So, I kind of learned from those that served on committee. One was former chief, Bill Fife. Learned a lot from him. I learned quite a bit from them as I got nominated to be like the Sargeant at Arms. I did that for two consecutive terms. Then I went, I was appointed as Second Speaker to two terms consecutive back-to-back. That was interesting. Give you a little bit more responsibility. RS: And I’m guessing you enjoyed that? DH: Yeah. RS: Okay. Was it just then, maybe, like a natural evolution for you to decide to run for Chief? Or what was the deciding factor to push you to want to run for Chief? DH: I was, actually, asked to run four years before I did. RS: Really? DH: But, you know, I just felt like I wasn’t ready. You always get that feeling and, plus, we just prayed a lot. Is this the right thing to do? So, I just decided to wait four years and see how it goes. RS: And, so, did you learn more, have more positions during that four years that helped you? DH: That’s when I became Second Speaker. RS: Okay. DH: [Indecipherable] Kind of knew more of the government side business. RS: Right. I’m sorry. So, what accomplishments are you most proud of during your time as chief? As far as with the Muscogee (Creek) Nation? What things have you accomplished that you’re the most proud of? Because I know that Jason had told me your first year was pretty rough because there was Covid, I think McGirt, you had a ransomware attack, and he said it was just a matter of like, you felt like you were putting out fires for the first year, and it was really hard to accomplish anything, but I know, since then, he told me some things that. MH: You can tell him and remind him. I said let her tell you, so she can remind you. DH: Yeah. I mean, you don’t realize a lot of stuff that happened. Just like I said, during the Covid years, the first January/February, I think, we was first brought to our awareness of Covid. Then all that happened. I think it was March 13th when I done the, declared natural, whatever you call it. Executive order that, then the ruling come out Supreme Court, I mean, from there you just get the domino effect, because Covid, now I’m worried about the elderly getting sick. Because we lost a lot in the last probably two years, first year of Covid, probably, approximately two hundred. You know, those were the elders, most fluent speakers, most people that knew tradition, cultural and history. We lost all that. Pastors. RS: Devastating. I mean that’s devastating. DH: But, you know, we still had to conduct business, so I had that going. Trying to decide what to do and try to get all my cabinet in place. RS: So, I feel like it was, maybe, a good thing that you waited the four years and got more prepared, because you were pretty much thrown into the fire whenever you started. DH: That’s one of the things, you know, during other interviews, the former chief. There wasn’t a play book in front of me to say, here’s what you do during Covid years. RS: Right. DH: Here’s what you do in supreme court. I mean, we just had to start from scratch. And it was a learning curve because I couldn’t make all the decision, so I had to appoint people whose best in that field. As far as [indecipherable] in the health division. You know, that was their first time, too. So, there’s nights we talked to each other 10, 11, 12, midnight. What are we doing to do? First thing is trying to take care of the people. But also, run the business side, too, so my former Chief of Staff and Second Chief, all of us, we had to sit down and try to create a plan. What do we do now? We just started gradually, plus, you know, we are working with some of the National Council reps. There was some that, even though I served with them, some for twelve years, eight years, four years, and they more of my heart. I want to do what’s best for the nation. But you still had a couple of them that would vote no against me on anything. Try to stop the progress of what we was doing, but we just had to do a work around. MH: Their chief didn’t win, so they DH: They retained their seats. So, once they do that, they’re upset. RS: Right. DH: But we had to do a work around. We found ways to still be productive on how to run business. RS: I know Jason [Jason Salsman] had mentioned that one of the, I guess, bigger accomplishments was the brand-new complex. That was something that had carried through several terms of other chiefs, but that you guys made it happen. DH: Every administration always have a master plan of what they’re going to do. I think Chief Ellis [A.D. Ellis] done it. Chief Tiger [George Phillip Tiger] did it. And Chief Floyd [James R. Floyd] did it, but they always done their own. But I just took the one that Chief Floyd had, and I said, we just need to do it. RS: Right. DH: And when I had my cabinet in there, it’s kind of fun. They always tell people that I had first couple of cabinet meetings that we’re sitting in, they would always ask me questions. Well, how do we, what do you want to do, Chief? And I said, well, what do you mean? So, they’ll bring the issues of concerns or how to move forward. I said, all right, I’ll let you know the end of the day. So, I asked my former Chief of Staff, Greg Anderson, I said why are they asking me? I said, I’m used to having, I don’t want to say knowledge or leadership at Nordam, but I said, you know if I did this at Nordam, I said, they would ask you. They would ask you. That’s why I hired you for this position. RS: Right. DH: I said, if I’m having to tell them every day what to do, I said, I don’t need them. I said, why is it like that? He said, well, he said that’s how the former administration was. Everything had to go through him. I said, well, I’m not like that. So, they come back the next meeting. RS: So, basically, you wanted to be able to delegate and trust them to handle, to make those decisions. DH: That’s kind of how I approached them. Right before the meeting, or kind of midway through the meeting, giving me the same answers. Well, you know, what do you think? I said, I’m buying every one of y’all a Nike shirt. I said do y’all know what that Nike shirt slogan is? They all looked and said Just Do It. RS: Just do it! DH: I said that’s just kind of the way Ray Siegfried, who I consider my mentor at Nordam. You know, we gonna make mistakes. We gonna learn by our mistakes, but we just grow from that. And that’s what I told them. So, if one of them would sit over here next to me and ask question, I said, what shoes you got on? They would know and just look. I said, okay. RS: I like it. DH: So, that’s kind of the way we started out, but again, it’s one of the situations where you have to put people in there that you trust. RS: Right. DH: I have to trust them as much as they’re going to trust me. And there’s some that had left, but I feel like I have a good solid team. RS: You have a good team. DH: And I told them we got four years to make a big impact. Even though we did the last two years, you know the first two years was tough. But it also, during the Covid years, I will say, that it showed, I don’t want to say weakness, but improvement. Like our IT. Everything was going to Zoom, so our technology, we had to redo, we had to redo all that. Everything was Zoom now, you know. Couldn’t meet in person. I’m still dressed like this coming into work even though we always tease about that, but there’s just a change of culture. At Nordam I tried to bring what I learned. And if you ever work in tribal government, that is hard. You pretty much figure 50-60% are all related, so if you’re in the HR department, that’s going to be tough, because you’re going to have to, and most of them probably have individuals that are related in their department that you have to write up. You’re going to have to fire. RS: Right. DH: And it’s hard for them. We tried to implement new stuff what we need to do. And it’s just a mind thing. Well, that’s the way it’s always been. And I said I’ve heard that at Nordam, because I try to use it when we implement new technology or new software. It took me a while to get used to it, because I hated it. I’m used to this. RS: Right. DH: Not knowing that in the future, running it and the new system is going to be better. RS: Better. DH: And that was hard to implement the first couple of years. They finally got used to it, though. RS: Well, that’s good. And a couple of other things, I know that Jason [Jason Salsman] had mentioned that you were responsible for maternity leave for DH: Yeah, I listened to one of my employees. Whitney, she’s one of my legislative clerks. She writes all the laws, the stuff that I need, we need to implement, and she brought that to my attention. Same thing, I said, you think that’s a good idea? She said, yeah. I said, well, do the research. So, actually, she’s the one that brought it forth, and we sat down and talked about it. She appreciated it. She said you’re the first, she said I brought this up to the last two administrations. I said, well, I’m here to make it better. My door is always open, so that was one of the, basically, one of the first things we did in office. RS: Well, I know one thing that Jason [Salsman] kept kind of saying over and over is your compassion, caring about the people, that sometimes it’s what can the position do for me versus what can I do for the people, and that you’re not like that. You’re there to help the people. And I think it’s pretty evident by your leadership and how everyone speaks of you that I’ve talked to. And Jason just thinks you’re wonderful, and so from that, we’ll transition into some of your accolades. I saw where you were Time Magazine’s one of 2020’s most 100 Most Influential People. Can you tell me about that? DH: That was, didn’t know what to think. I received that email, and I forwarded it to Jason [Salsman], and I said look at this. Is this legit? I said, I don’t know, why? Why me? MH: No, you sent it to me. DH: I sent it to you and Jason [Salsman]. MH: And what’d I say? DH: I don’t know. MH: It’s a scam! Do not respond. It’s a scam! It’s not true. DH: So, Jason [Salsman] called them, and he come running back in the office and said, Chief, he said that is for real! I said, why? I mean, why me? He said, I don’t know. So, we and come to find out, Sharice Davids, the councilwoman from Kansas had submitted the letter to Time Magazine. RS: Oh! DH: And that’s how it come about. But it was strange. I never expected that. RS: So, what did that entail, as far as, was there like a ceremony or anything? DH: Usually there is, but there was Covid. RS: Oh, shoot! It was, wasn’t it?! DH: It only showed on TV. MH: They usually have a gala and everything, but not that year. RS: Oh, man! MH: Did get invited the next year was it? DH: Next year, two years afterwards. MH: Yeah, you’ve been invited, I guess, every year, every June to come to their thing in New York. We went one time. RS: I mean, that’s quite, that’s quite an honor, I mean. DH: And it’s to meet the people, I never would expect it. Both of us. Sometimes just me, you know. Bill Gates was there. RS: Jason [Salsman] had mentioned that, that it was kind of like sitting there thinking DH: We’re sitting in the front row. RS: Like what in the world?! DH: He went with us. Because I could only invite one. And I said, hey, I need my PR to come with me, so I brought Jason [Salsman] with us. That’s where the girls got mad. He got to go and they didn’t. I had to give all the credit to Jason, too. Because we was on Time Magazine. Nightline. They came and did an episode. They stayed with me for a whole week. Went down to mom’s. They interviewed, we were sitting, me and my brothers and with mom. They said just five, ten minutes, whatever. Just ask her a question about, they just want to hear her speak in the language. So, we asked her what happened on Trail of Tears. Can you tell us who, do you remember? And she did mention her grandmother telling stories of what happened. And she probably went twenty minutes. Finally had to stop her. Hey that’s good enough. After we got through it, that’s where I mentioned earlier, I asked my brother, Sammy, I said I kind of like a little bit of that what mom was saying in Creek. I said, what did she say? He said, I don’t know. She spoke in the old language. So, we asked our sisters, you know, do y’all know what mom said? Said no, she went back in the old language. So, none of us, they’re supposed to send me a copy of with what mom said, but no one. RS: So, nobody even knows what she said? DH: Huh-mm. RS: Oh, shoot! DH: Part of it, she did mention, from what I understand about grandma, great-grandma, I guess walked on the Trail of Tears kind of in the weather and stuff like that is about all I can catch. RS: All you can get out of it. DH: Just that. MH: It’s recorded though. DH: National Geographic. MH: Oh, that was special. DH: They had me at River Spirit [Casino], which Monica and Jason went. They took photos, and we met the other four tribes, Seminole, Choctaw, Cherokee and Chickasaw tribal leaders at Oklahoma City. And we’re all taking pictures. They said they’ll be 2023. Supposed to come out the summer before. It finally came out 2022. MH: I can’t remember. I just know that the other chiefs weren’t in it. It was only him. DH: Yeah, when it come out, it only showed me. But, you know, things like that, I never dreamed. Because I do have a book, 1973, I believe, National Geographic. There is photos of our ceremonial ground, and there’s a picture of my dad and a lot of the ceremonial ground men members doing the feather dance. There was a picture of dad in there. RS: Oh! That’s neat! MH: So, it was pretty neat that he had that with his dad, and then all these years later, they had him. RS: SO special! DH: I think Jason [Salsman] posted that on our Facebook page. RS: On your Facebook. MH: Just like when Charley Coker was fought against the allotment fought for that reservation, you know, and then DH: 113 years later, 20/20 when I’m in office, that’s when the supreme court ruling come out. RS: Right. Well, I have to say, just from what I know of you, that you seem like a very low key individual and that, I guess, all of the spotlight might be kind of uncomfortable for you or that’s not where you’re most comfortable at is in the spotlight, that you’re there to do a job and take care of your people and. DH: That’s what I thought. Even our hotel at the casino, when me and Monica, they had to have a room, the top floor is just designated for me. MH: Not the whole top floor, but DH: Well, it is almost. MH: It’s like a 2000 square foot. DH: It’s the very end. The king suite. I don’t know why, oh, it’s the Chief’s Suite. RS: The Chief’s Suite. Well, that makes sense. DH: So, we, it would take probably me and Monica thirty minutes just to get to our room, because everyone wants to stop and, you know, they want to shake hands, talk. Because I talk to all the employees. RS: Right. DH: Even when we get through, me and Monica, we’ll walk down and I get a cup of coffee and just walk the whole floor. MH: It took us two hours, one time, from the elevator to the door. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: Because people want to talk. They just want to talk. RS: Right. DH: And I heard one comment from one of the employees had told one of the managers, said he just stopped and talked and we talked about OU football. He said I never been able to talk to anyone like that, that just RS: Because they don’t expect you to be a regular guy, I guess, because you’re the Chief. DH: That’s even going out of state. Some different conferences that Monica goes with me. I get approached by other tribal leaders from other tribes. I mean, they just, what’s happened with the supreme court ruling really, like I said, the spotlight. It’s just not me. RS: Have you gotten more comfortable with in that position of being in the spotlight? Because being a low-key kind of quiet, seems to me, individual that would be, I guess it just goes with the territory? MH: I think he’s more comfortable. DH: Yeah. MH: I’m more comfortable. I don’t have to worry as much what he’s going to say or do. I’m like, oh gosh…oh Lord help him, oh Lord help him. DH: She’ll be back there saying MH: Now I’ve got to cut him off. DH: You know, I got invited to different things in D.C. I can’t remember that one event, but I was the first tribal leader to attend. It was like for the republican MH: It was all the supreme court judges. DH: Yeah, it was all the supreme court judges. All the different people congress and senators at this event. And here I am, somebody from Gypsy, Oklahoma. I’m just sitting there. The lady that invited me, she’s an attorney. So, I’m getting ready, and Monica’s just teasing, she said, you know I’m helping my husband get ready for his date. You know, she comes to pick me up. MH: I went down there and took a picture of them. She kept sending DH: Kind of like a prom date, you know. MH: She kept sending me pictures. I guess she was just having him meet everybody because she’d send a picture of him and this judge and him and this judge and him and DH: And I asked for a cup of coffee. It was like a little tea cup. I took a picture of that and said, look what I’m drinking, you know. Just things that I never would have dreamed would be happening. RS: Right. Well, I mean, that’s why I say I feel like you’re a, both, like a self-made success story from start to finish. And your story is MH: Oh, I don’t know about that, but just RS: It’s amazing! MH: Strange opportunities and things happen that you’re not expecting or even think about, like those things that those awards and things and then that leads to this, and you meet this person or this person, and we went up there to a play, one of our citizens did a play on the far end, and we went to watch that. And, so, we go to dinner first with these people and this, one of the judges are there, and they sit me beside him, and I’m like oh no, put David by him, and they said no they’re doing man, woman and our AG walks in. Well, sit her by him, so that they can talk law stuff. I don’t know about talking law stuff. They said, no, that’s why we want you there. So, he had already talked to David and met David and seen him play basketball. He was in basketball, and so, he tells me about how David, well some things I’m not supposed to tell, but anyway he played basketball at this place and how good he was. He says people tell me all the time that they can play basketball and they’ll take their jackets off. He said he just shot in his suit and zoom, zoom, zoom. He said, so tell me, where’d you guys meet? And I was like, at a basketball game. I mean, who would think I’d be sitting next to a supreme court judge talking about basketball. RS: Basketball. Yeah, from Gypsy, Oklahoma. You know. DH: Then we got to go to California and walk the red carpet. MH: Oh! Reservation Dogs. Yeah. DH: The Reservation Dogs. RS: Oh, yeah! DH: They did their premier, and me and Monica and [indecipherable] and his wife are just walking up to the red carpet, and all them young actors, D’Pharaoh [D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai] MH: Now we didn’t know it was such a big thing. I mean, they came and had a dinner thing and met them, you know, D’Pharaoh, he thinks David, he’s just, oh, I’ve always wanted to meet you. And I’m thinking, he don’t even know him. But anyway, oh I wanted to meet you, too! But I guess he’d heard about him. So, when we go to do that, but we didn’t know it was such a big thing until we got to Hollywood, and there’s like all these different bulletin boards. DH: Signs, billboards. MH: And on the subway, I mean, the buses and everything, they’re thing, I’m like, well, this must be a bigger thing than I realized. We’re walking down the sidewalk and they’re doing pictures with that screen thing behind it. He sees David and he starts jumping up and down and yelling, probably about a half a block away, Chief, Chief, Chief! And, so, he’s in the picture, when they put it on Nightline, they take the picture of the video of David there with him talking. I’m thinking, they think he’s part of them. He is NOT. Someone thought he was Sterlin [Sterlin Harjo], and I was like, no. Look at him. They think he’s RS: So, on that same line, because I personally want to know, how did you meet Mo [Mo Brings Plenty] from Yellowstone? Because I’ve actually seen him at the basketball games, which is, you know, an odd, it’s cool, but I love him on Yellowstone, and then I know he’s hung around here some with you. So, how did you end up meeting him? DH: It was MH: Rez at Las Vegas. DH: Well, I didn’t personally know him then. MH: Well, that’s the first time DH: I saw him because they interviewed him saying that he’s going to run for president, because we was eating and having lunch. And afterwards, I got a call from another tribal leader, said hey, I got Mr. Mo Brings Plenty wants to talk to you, Chief. I said, okay. I didn’t know who he was. We didn’t watch Yellowstone, so I didn’t know he was an actor. Said, okay. Said you got his number? So, we call, and he said we are doing a movie of Bass Reeves. He said we want to keep it authentic. He said I’m looking for someone that can speak the language and also write, a good teacher. I said, okay. I said, well, we are actually having our intertribal meeting here at River Spirit [Casino] with the five tribes if you want to come. So, he shows up. MH: And I’m thinking the guy that we seen that’s going to run for president. DH: So, I told Monica. So, he showed up. I got him a room and everything. He walked down with us, and all the women just went crazy. And me and Monica saying who is this guy? Finally got to talk to him and he was standing there, and I said, we’re actually having our ribbon dance at our ceremonial ground if you want to come. He said, yeah, I’ll come with you. So, we go down and he’s sitting with mom and he eats with us at our camp. RS: And are you still at this time not fully aware of who he is? DH: Oh, we are now. RS: You knew now, okay. I mean at the time that you invited him down to the dance and all that. DH: We just stayed close friends. RS: Yeah, well that’s so cool! DH: He actually had me wanted to know if I wanted to be in the movie Bass Reeves [Lawman: Bass Reeves], so me and Solomon did that. RS: Oh, okay. DH: I think it was Episode Two. [Inaudible] DH: About two seconds of fame. RS: That’s out now, isn’t it? DH: Mm-hmm. RS: Is it on Paramount? DH: I believe so. RS: Yeah. DH: Soloman, he stayed. He’s probably in eight, nine scenes. RS: Oh, wow. Well, how fun! MH: Came back after that dance that first time, back to the house. And I felt bad because everyone was all crazy, so finally I just said, Mo, we haven’t seen Yellowstone. My mom and sister tried to watch it, but they said it’s just too bad. And he said, yeah, it’s pretty bad sometimes. And he said that he, because you just go there and do your parts, and he doesn’t cuss. He doesn’t drink. And it’s really surprising, because you think actors are that. But he’s not, so. RS: Well, we love it. We love Yellowstone at our house. So, I was already a big fan of him, and then when I realized that, like you knew him, and Rick [Shaw] had said, oh yeah, Mo’s been down at David and Monica’s house, and I’m like, WHAT?! MH: We’ve done a lot of things together. He’s really special. DH: He come down to the festival. MH: And, Sara [Sarah Ann Haney-Brings Plenty], his wife is so sweet. DH: Yeah. They’re both. He wanted me to ride in a parade with him. MH: He did that and a meet and greet, but he ended up staying last year. He brought Cole [Cole Brings Plenty 8/18/1996-4/5/2024] with him. DH: He stayed Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the rodeo. He stayed at the rodeo, him and Sara, but Cole did a fashion show. Yeah, we just stayed close friends after that. He came to Hokte softball game, came to the basketball game…football game, the boys. MH: Yeah, came to the basketball game. RS: I know I had seen him at the basketball games whenever the girls were DH: He lives in Kansas, so. He feels like, because all his family are in South Dakota. RS: Oh, okay. DH: So, we’re kind close. RS: Extended family? DH: Yeah, he will just text back and forth, and calls me cuz. MH: David had went out the room during the festival. We were eating and he just started telling the people that was there at the from the first time that he met David, that he had a connection with him as if he was just like his family, and so, he’s just always felt that way. RS: Aw, well that’s neat. Well, it’s been quite a journey, I would say for you. DH: Oh, yeah. RS: For both of you. MH: We met some other guy, because I think we meet people that we don’t realize that DH: Who the they are. MH: Who they are or anything, so we were at festival and this guy comes up and he was doing movie, he’s a producer, I guess. We didn’t know, he was with another friend of ours that helped with our campaign that’s a model and actor. He’s been wanting to meet David and everyone said, he won’t meet you. He’s too busy. He don’t have time, you know. He came up to meet and greet, and so, we talked for an hour, and then RS: And who was this? DH: Shep MH: Yeah, John Shepherd (ph). DH: The one that’s doing the movie now that’s down here. RS: Oh, okay. OH! Okay. The one that’s on main right now? MH: Yeah. They text Saturday and said we’re filming today. Do you and David want to come down. I said, well, David is out on the mower and we’re doing our sovereignty day fireworks tonight. I’m doing all this cooking. I don’t know if I’ll have time to run down there or not, you know. I did get the [indecipherable] and seen where they were. I didn’t even know that’s where they were. RS: Right. MH: I said, but if y’all get done early, come eat. I’m cooking. Rick’s [Shaw] cooking, smoking some pork butt. DH: Cook out. MH: Yeah, and so, a little bit later that evening, they text and said, we’re on our way. So, they came to the house. They stayed until about 11, 11:30 and just visited and visited, and so, he’s a Christian. Mr. [indecipherable]. He did a lot of movies with a Billy Graham movies. RS: Okay. MH: And stuff, and so he’s doing this one. And I said, well, I told him about our church. And he said, I just might come down, and sure enough, Sunday morning, he showed up. DH: Showed up Sunday. MH: Then we went and ate at Los Arcos. RS: Well, how cool. MH: And then Monday night we had a, he met John and them are ambassador and his wife at our house. And I knew that they were, I thought it would be good if he was there with them, because they could really visit about some things. So, they did. We went to [indecipherable] DH: Documentary thing. MH: And he came there, too. So, when we got done, he said, well family, what’s next? What are we going to next? I said, well, if you’re still here next week, Sunday, come to church. Because he told the pastor, well, the pastor’s wife knew who he was, and so, when DH: I think she was googling him. MH: She had been watching, I guess, that movie stuff, and so she knew all kinds of stuff about him. So, she went up and visited him. So, that’s when I really found out about him was stuff that she had knew. RS: She had found. MH: So, anyway, he said there’s quite a few Christians on the set, and so, he was going to see if they wanted to come, too. But he hadn’t been to a church like that. In California, he said, you don’t have churches like that where people raise their hands and praise the Lord. And I kind of figured that. People out there that live like that, they write movies and stories about people like this, like us, so, I thought they probably would like to see the real people like us. RS: Right, right. MH: Then we don’t expect ever have anything to do with people like that, and we don’t know that they are people like that, so we just treat them like they are ours. Go to church with us! Come and eat come barbeque! RS: Well, I think that’s really neat. MH: I think it’s best to know people before they’re, that you don’t know that they’re famous. I don’t feel anything like that for Mo because I don’t know Mo as that. I just knew Mo as this, and so RS: Well, and I can’t say that I’m like a real star-struck person, either. I just like to know people, and like you say, that’s probably the best way to do it because, you know, you’ve gotten to be friends with them before they even, you realized, you know, who they are or what. MH: He’s just the best person, the best heart. About everybody. He cares about the natives, the native kids, but he cares about all kids and all races. He wants to get along with everybody. And everybody do things for each other. RS: Right. MH: Pull everybody together and make life better for everybody. DH: The other exciting thing I got to do was go to Harvard. MH: Oh, I forgot about that. RS: You went to Harvard? DH: Yeah, me and Jason [Salsman]. They interviewed us, speak to the classroom, so we get through, and we say we want you to sign a book. So, I went in and this actual book when the visitors come. What’s that prince’s wife? What’s her name? MH: Oh, um. Who’s the prince? RS: Kate? Kate Middleton? MH: Was it Kate Middleton? DH: Kate, yeah. RS: Kate Middleton? DH: Yeah, I signed right behind her. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: And I thought, what am I doing signing, you know at Harvard. RS: Oh, my goodness! DH: It was just things like that. RS: Blows your mind. Yeah, that’s crazy. MH: Oh, and they did a documentary. I don’t know if you’ve heard about that. RS: I haven’t. MH: Bad Press. RS: The what? MH: Bad Press. So, when he was running for Chief, they wanted to know if they could follow us. They were following several of the candidates, you know. And I thought, I understood that it was about DH: Elections. MH: Yeah, native elections is what, tribal elections. So, they were with us a lot. Wherever we went, they went. Came to the house and helped us cook when we had our little get-togethers and stuff. And, so DH: Watch party. MH: Yeah, watch party. So, years later, it finally comes out, but at the same time during the election, they were also fighting for free press. We had a free press, but then the former chief decided that he wanted to put that back under the chief. So, that they had a little more control. So, they wrote legislation and David opposed it and fought it and they finally got it. Anyway, so, that was the was the fight during the election, too, because it had a lot to do with about them maybe not wanting some things to come out and stuff, so, after David is elected, they end up taking it to a, the constitution and making it an amendment in the constitution, because then whatever chief is there can’t change it. So, we did finally get free press. But, really, it made the story more about that about how it was. So, David has quite a bit of parts. We had to sign, I was really worried, they didn’t show me that much, but it’s funny, everybody RS: So, was it like a documentary? MH: It’s a documentary. Yeah. RS: And what’s it called? MH: Bad Press. RS: Bad Press. MH: Yeah, it won a lot of awards at, what’s that, that thing that they have, those DH: Journalism? MH: No, those RS: Like the, I think I know what you’re MH: Festivals, what is that one festival? RS: Yes. MH: Sundance! RS: Yes, Sundance. MH: It’s been all over. RS: Okay, that’s something else I’m going to have to look at. DH: Jason [Salsman] was there. He never seen it. And that was the first time Jason seen it there, but there’s some parts in there that I kind of wish they would have…I’m trying to do my campaign sign. That’s before I had my knee surgery. So, there’s sign all up and down the road, so I’m trying to find one because it’s gravel. They showed the whole thing! MH: It took forever! I was in the car. I was like I’m not getting out there where the camera is. It took him forever, but instead of just waiting, no they make you see all of everybody else’s signs and they do that. But they were showing what an underdog he was. RS: Right. MH: Because he was really and underdog. He’s getting in his little Honda vehicle and we’re doing this and then the other guy’s in one of those like spider vehicle, Batman-looking vehicles, and you know. RS: Do you ever just look at your life and go what in the world?! I mean, can you even believe where you’re at now? Or do you feel like you were destined to be where you are? DH: I don’t really look at it that way. RS: You don’t look at it that way? You’re just thankful for the journey? DH: Mm-hmm. MH: I think he just don’t have time to stop and think about it. DH: Yeah, probably. RS: Well, I think right now that probably is the case, because you are SO busy all the time. Well, as we wrap up this interview, I’m wondering do each of you, do you have any wisdom that you would like to share for future generations to draw from whether it be, you know, from a married perspective or a work perspective…do you have any general advice or wisdom that you would like to share for future generations? I want both of you to answer. MH: I’d have to think a while. I could really come up with something good if I thought a while. Number one is the Lord first. The Lord first and He will take of everything. Even when things look bleak, there’s a reason for it. You don’t know what it is, but it always works out, so I would say that. And care about other people, because that’s what David is, is a servant leader, and he has a heart for the people. Everyone said that. He has a heart for the…he does. And sometimes, they come before everybody else, but that’s okay, because we all got on board. The whole family got on board and knew that this is what this was going to be. I was, at first, I really…can’t we just stay on the council? I told a friend of ours, you know, Blaine was two when he got on the council. If he’s chief, Blaine will be out of high school by the time he’s done those first four years. And she said, yeah, but look he’s going to leave him a legacy, and I didn’t really see the legacy at the time, but then after he got in there and everything happened, it’s like oh yeah, this is a once in a lifetime thing that would ever happen to a chief of Muscogee (Creek) Nation. But it’s mainly the whole family had to be ready to give and okay with it. RS: So, for you it’s the Lord first, to take care of other people. Is there anything else you want to add to that? MH: Yeah, when I was in nursing school, this is what our instructor said, the Lord is first. You are second, which I have a hard time with, but they said if you don’t take care of yourself, you’re not there to then help your family. RS: Right. MH: And so, I don’t always do that, but that’s what I tell people. RS: What about you, David? Do you have any wisdom to share? DH: I’m trying to think. Because some of the questions I was asked like, what would you change? Is there anything that you would change, you would have done differently? My decision was no. Because, you know after me and Monica got married and had ShaRee, I had some say I should have went back to school to play basketball. Well, if I did, we probably wouldn’t have had ShaLae. Probably wouldn’t have had ShaVon. And that’s, basically, what I told them. I said you’re going to come up in situations throughout, but you never question why it happened. Be hard for me to go back and change anything that happened or we’d never would run into things we are doing now. That’s one of my cabinet members had mentioned, he said you’re, you think before you make the decision, similar to Mekko at ceremonial ground. He said, because if you ask someone to make the decision right then or ceremonial ground [indecipherable], they would think about it and they will bring the members like on Sunday whenever they have their meeting. Each Sunday they talk about it. He said then he’ll make decision on what he feels best. He said, most Mekkos won’t make a quick decision. RS: Rash decision. DH: Yeah. And even I had to tell one attorney, she was an attorney for one of our ceremonial grounds. She was asked, well, we need to know decision [indecipherable] I finally had to call her, and I said, hey, you do remember how the ceremonial ground works? The chief would think about it. He would bring it to the citizens. He will bring to ground members, to the men. Then he will come back and make a decision. They said, so you’re similar to that. You kind of bring the traditional way with a lot of stuff you’re doing now. But I don’t know, just what Monica said. You do have to keep the Lord first. RS: Well, and I also think for when you’re talking about, would you change anything, MH: It might mess it up. RS: If you change something, you’re who you are because of where you came from, you know. And your life experiences, good and bad. DH: It’s like someone asked me before, if you had to go back in time, where would you like to go? I would definitely like to go back in time 1492 before Columbus came, you know, but then I said, I would like to go back when my great-grandpa, Charley Coker, was in this battle. Seeing the stuff I’ve seen now, I would have prevented it if I was with him. But we probably wouldn’t be here where we are at today. RS: Right. DH: So, I’d definitely like to see what would happen back in time, but RS: So, do you have any advice for from a different perspective of, say, maybe a family that started out like yours did with a teen pregnancy and a young marriage. Do you have any advice for, I guess, persevering through that situation, either of you? MH: First of all, I say, 1981 was very different from right now. RS: Right, yeah. DH: It is. I mean, it’s kind of hard to give an advice, because, like I said, it’s back then, it was totally different. RS: SO different. DH: Than what it is now of the way people see it compared to both generations. RS: Well, but, I mean to even persevere together, like you stayed together. I don’t think that MH: We didn’t know anything different. RS: The commitment factor, I guess, is something that I feel kind of lacks in today’s world. DH: And we hate to fail, I mean, even our daughters are the same way. RS: Right. DH: You hate to fail of doing something, and I guess that’s part of it, too. RS: You’re driven. DH: We don’t want to fail. RS: You’re driven to succeed. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your time and your lives with me today. Please know this interview will become an important part of our ongoing oral history archive at the museum. And on behalf of the Bristow Historical Society, we thank you very much for your time. DH & ; amp ; MH: Thank you. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml OHP-0059_David_Hill.xml
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
David Hill
Description
An account of the resource
David and Monica talk about their early life together, their family, their careers and what their life has been like during David’s terms as Principal Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0059
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2024/7/12
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/61715955e93572aa65708d6f83548842.jpg
1bac9a320706951552c742053a4c6422
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Bunny Baker
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dillard Baker
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 April 13, 1993 OHP-0017-01 Dillard Baker OHP-0017-01 0:00-01:01:36 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Dillard Baker Bunny Baker MP3 1:|62(12)|93(2)|130(5)|149(6)|178(15)|208(13)|227(6)|240(5)|267(13)|296(6)|309(2)|337(9)|350(6)|373(10)|387(1)|413(7)|443(14)|459(5)|472(16)|493(12)|520(6)|534(11)|583(2)|607(7)|621(6)|643(15)|659(10)|680(2)|697(15)|710(2)|760(15)|778(7)|797(8)|845(17)|862(14)|873(5)|895(5)|920(1)|931(8)|943(6)|953(14)|975(5)|987(3)|998(16)|1017(1)|1038(12)|1062(2)|1082(10)|1101(7)|1127(5)|1155(10)|1168(11)|1183(10)|1196(11)|1216(15)|1258(7)|1302(11)|1320(13)|1343(2)|1368(16)|1379(11)|1400(1)|1421(4)|1431(15)|1442(7)|1461(8)|1478(6)|1495(2)|1514(8)|1530(1)|1548(6)|1567(6)|1587(4)|1605(8)|1623(14)|1634(14)|1647(9)|1665(7)|1681(8)|1695(1)|1712(5)|1728(11)|1745(2)|1759(15)|1786(3)|1817(1)|1849(9)|1867(13)|1883(7)|1894(3)|1909(7)|1920(11)|1937(17)|1951(14)|1967(2)|1987(4)|2006(10)|2023(10)|2041(5)|2051(17)|2063(12)|2075(2)|2097(13)|2121(11)|2131(11)|2142(9)|2166(12)|2186(6)|2211(2)|2229(9)|2237(17)|2255(11)|2270(6)|2296(14)|2312(15)|2338(4)|2353(9)|2369(3)|2380(11)|2404(5)|2418(2)|2443(9)|2458(5) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0017-01 Baker, Dillard.mp3 Other audio 369 Arrival In a Covered Wagon and Other Early Memories BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or “Doc” Baker as he is called by most people. I’m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle’s uncle. Dillard, or “Doc,” was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn’t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens’ Center and he walks everywhere he goes—to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He’s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). " ; Doc" ; Baker ; Advent Christian Church ; Baxter ; Bunny Baker ; Civil War ; Covered Wagon ; Dean Springs ; Farmer ; John Esther ; Marbles ; Merle Baker ; Overstreet ; Pea Ridge ; Schoolhouse Childhood ; Family History ; Life on the farm 585 Schoolhouse Day's BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school—well, we didn’t, didn’t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to—as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight—uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades DB: Just one that handled all of them, she—just—yeah, and they had them from the primary—well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn’t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they—knowing that you couldn’t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher’s name was? Ira Sloan ; Mills Chapel ; Schoolhouse ; Slates School 2018 Childhood on the Farm BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the—we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that’s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr—bales of hay—I mean cotton—piled up in one pile, you couldn’t get out, the creek’s all up and couldn’t get it to town to sell. But it’s about—about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there’s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their—the oldest one—well, you know Fred and—well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. Asafrtida ; Bessie Smith ; Black Draught ; Blansetts ; Canning ; Corn Shucks ; Cotton ; Log Cabin ; Malarial ; McClown ; Mills Chapel ; Punching Stick ; Quinine ; Smokehouse ; Sooner ; Spring Tonics ; VanOrsdol ; Wagon Childhood ; Crops ; Farm Life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida Asafetida 2657 Army Service BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that’s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that’s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let’s see, that’s what—five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we’d just three teams, and so I wasn’t needed. So I went to—and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and—until they went to—well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that’s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that’s the same where I stayed there. And that’s where I went—was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then—which wasn’t very long. We didn’t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed—the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at—right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? American National Bank ; Army ; Camp Dixon ; Cathedral ; Cologne ; Enlisted ; Flu Epidemic ; Furlough ; Germany ; Hamburg ; Koblenz ; Lieutenant Colonel ; Merchant Marines ; New Rochelle Island ; Oil Boom ; Oklahoma Ship ; Rhine River ; Sergeant Army ; Germany ; Service 2951 Parties and Social Life BB: Well, let’s get back to your early days of—you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type— BB: What’d you do? What’d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we—the name of them I—don’t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that—that was a type of dancin’ that the folks didn’t know it, see. BB: Was it— DB: They’d let us go to a dance, but we’d go to a party and they’d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow— BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That’s— Birdie Dykes ; Chivaree ; Ms. Morgan ; Sloanes ; Smiths ; Square Dancing ; Swinging Games Courting ; Dancing ; Parties ; Social Life 3384 Courting and Marriage DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened—of course, this happened after I got back from the service—you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was—when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah—I want to get, I’ll hear about that now. DB: Well— BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin’ out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn’t—she wouldn’t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin’ around her, around her lookin’ at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never—no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That— BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was—when we got engaged? Betty Higgings ; Courthouse ; Deep Fork Bridge ; Fred Mattox ; Georgia Henderson ; John Morton ; Schoolteacher ; Staff Sergeant ; Train Courting ; Dating ; Marriage 3686 Oil and Indians BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ‘em? DB: No, not that—there was plenty outlaws but— BB: You didn’t— DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin’ out here. Dad had to—got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn’t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ‘em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin’ on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ‘em from getting’ stole. That’s what this—the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin’ fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew— BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That’s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff Drilling Rigs ; Fort Smith ; Iron Rigs ; Judge Parker ; Oil Fields ; Outlaws ; Tibbens ; Van Buren Indians ; Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Outlaws https://www.legendsofamerica.com/ar-isaacparker/ Judge Parker 4080 Christmas Of 1919 DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn’t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn’t know it was gettin’ darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye—I was—yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn’t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived—she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we’d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for—took off up there. Well, they wasn’t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, Baptist Church ; Christmas ; Christmas Eve ; Red Crocus Christmas ; Gifts ; Winter 4225 Cotton Gins and Buyers BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all—after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents— BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you’d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would—later have to cotton gin’s got to—see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you’d get in here first thing you’re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their—all had their cotton buyers. Well you’d go up there and just park. Here’d come a cotton buyer. He’d dig down in there and he’d see what kind of cotton you had and they’d give you a bid on it. You’d sit there all day ‘til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you’d leave where it’s three or four o’clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o’clock at night. Just—just how all waitin’ up here ‘til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they’d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? Abraham Gin ; Cotton Gin ; Main Street Bidding ; Cotton ; Cotton Gins 4421 Four Rose Whiskey Down The Outdoor Toilet DB: ‘Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn’t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had—the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn’t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know’d ‘em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know—that’s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they’d put ‘em in there to sober ‘em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that’s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service—I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked—I come almost gettin’ back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong—the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they—up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how—the stores, they was all separate. They didn’t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ‘em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. Artie Dykes ; Bill Chrishower ; Board Sidewalks ; Jail ; Jay Dykes ; Railroad Tracks ; Sheriff ; Wes Bay Drunks ; Jail 4846 Bristow Stores and Tobacco Use BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type— DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks—and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham—well, Joe first had the—had the first little—well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw—maybe you got one—them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember—they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he’d have ‘em—he’d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his— BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking—stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. Blood Disease ; Doc King ; Joe Abraham ; Medicine ; Mercantile ; Oil ; Sam Abraham ; Shops ; Tabacco 5144 Sickness, Health, and Hair Cuts BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your— DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I’ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I’ve never been a—even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I’d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ‘em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to—the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit—chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I’ll belch. And that’s how, that’s with chili. And just a time or two and it’s over, you know. But that’s the only thing, I never— BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that’s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn’t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. Cotton ; Doctor ; Health ; Hospital ; Malignant ; Nurse ; Pneumonia ; Service ; Surgery ; Wellington Health ; Hospital ; Sickness ; Surgery 5292 Murder and Whisky DB: They say they—all the murderin’ all that time was—I was, we’s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb—Harrison Webb had shot one of—hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where—oh, I’d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over—can’t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow—the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That’s the only murder that was—and then it was about, since 19-5, that’d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. Bill Baker ; Blacksmith ; Harrison Webb ; Murder ; Railroad Tracks ; Red Bird ; Shot ; Train Depot ; Whiskey Peddler 5443 Biography of Dillard and Family BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard’s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen’s Luncheons—well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren’t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the—today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I’m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. Alma, Arkansas ; Cordelia Overstreet Baker ; Crop Walk ; Dana Brideford ; John H. Baker ; Mills Chapel ; Wildflower Run Biography ; History 5590 Roustabouting and Oil DB: And then— BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin’ pipe, doin’ all kinds of manual labor. And, well that—it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin’ anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was—had that foreman’s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties—yeah, thirties. And that was just—well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building—drillin’ a new well and we’d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin’ and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move—where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved—I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. Foreman ; Lucas Pumping ; Oilfield ; Rigs ; Roustabouting ; Tibbens Oil ; Oil Rigs ; Oilfield 5733 Depression and Dust Bowl BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let’s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was— BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn’t affect us too much. We, we had—we didn’t have no money, wasn’t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that—we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods—flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill—my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That’s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at—you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and—all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon—and then at six o’clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well— Depression ; Dust Bowl ; Dust Days Dust Bowl ; Great Depression 5807 Cowboys BB: Did you know—had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy’d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule—this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we’d come to our—of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules—one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that’s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he’s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn’t. BB: Okay. Chisholm Trail ; Cowboy ; Earl Halliburton Cowboys ; Trails 6220 Mules, Whiskey and an Old Chevrolet Chevorlet ; Claremore ; Pryor ; R.D Dykes ; Tulsa ; Wes Christian Driving Mules ; Marriage 6480 Sorghum and Sugar Cane BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid— DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well— BB: A lot of people don’t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane—you have to— BB: You raised sugar cane. Jim Dowdy ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane Crops ; Sorghum ; Sugar Cane 6713 Grandparents and Memories BB: Well, what’s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad’s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad—your dad’s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He—he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved—I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that’s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn’t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that—as far as—that’s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother’s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky Ducking ; Julia Ann Creekmore ; Sewing ; Shamrock Grandparents ; Memories 7153 Dillard Baker in the 90's . And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I’ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin’ to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don’t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don’t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there’s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there’s somebody out there that I don’t know, if I don’t know any of ‘em, I try to make it three times a week and then there’s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you’ll run into some friend that’s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That’s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin’ home, not knowin’ nothin’ about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ‘em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ‘em on their high shelves, none of ‘em can reach ‘em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that’s wrong with ‘em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ‘em and if they don’t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I— BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? Advent Christian Church ; Airplane ; Choir ; Deacon ; Groceries ; Hospital Airplane ; Church ; Cleaning ; Hospital ; Sick Elders 7414 Siblings and Birthplaces BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn’t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ‘til—well I quit playing when, when—oh, I played up ‘til forty-something, I don’t know, in the forties. BB: What would—you had—there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children— DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard— BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie—Bessie— BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don’t remember what Marie’s—if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. Arkansas ; Baseball ; Bessie Gertrude ; Clyde Alexander ; Creek County ; Deep Fork ; Dillard Roy ; Marie Ophelia ; Oval Lee ; Teepees ; Wayne L. Birth Place ; Childhood ; Indians ; Siblings In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow Interviewer: Bunny Baker (BB) Interviewee: Dillard Roy Baker (DB) (1899 - June 21, 1996) Other Persons: Unknown Man (UM) ; Terry Howe Baker (TB) (October 16, 1928 - ____) Date of Interview: April 13, 1993 Location: Transcriber: Melissa Holderby Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0017 Sides A& ; B and OHP-0018 Sides A& ; B Length: 01:01:36 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. BB: --the Bristow Historical Society. My name is Bunny Baker. The date is April 13, 1993. I will be interviewing Dillard Baker, or " ; Doc" ; Baker as he is called by most people. I' ; m the wife of Merle Baker, and Doc is Merle' ; s uncle. Dillard, or " ; Doc," ; was born September 6, 1898 at Dean Springs, Arkansas. How old are you (whispering)? DB: Ninety-four? BB: As of this date, he is ninety-four years old and outstanding in many ways for a man of his age. How tall are you, Doc? DB: Five nine and a half. BB: Five nine and a half, and how much do you weigh? DB: A hundred and forty-three. BB: Hundred and forty-three pounds. And he still has a full head of hair, now white. But he doesn' ; t wear glasses except for reading and at this time Doc is probably best known for his walking. He may very well spend more time walking than anyone in Bristow. How many miles is it that you walk a day, Dillard? DB: Two to six. BB: Two to six. He lives in the Senior Citizens' ; Center and he walks everywhere he goes--to church at the Advent Christian Church one mile south of Bristow where he lives, and he walks to the hospital to visit patients each day. He runs errands for elderly shut-ins, taking them groceries and so forth. He' ; s a remarkable man for his age. In fact, in the morning, he leaves on an eight-day bus tour for Washington, D.C. Okay, Doc, what was the name of your mother and dad? DB: John Esther (ph). BB: And your mother? DB: Cardy (ph). Cardy (ph) Cornelius. BB: Overstreet was her last name. DB: Yeah, Overstreet, yeah. BB: And where--were they born in--where were they born? DB: They was born in--both of ' ; em right around Dead Springs there. BB: Okay. Do you remember the year they came to Oklahoma? DB: Yeah, 1905. BB: Nineteen-five. And how old were you? DB: Seven. BB: Seven? And how did they travel when they came to Oklahoma? DB: Covered wagon. BB: How many? One or more? DB: No, it was three. BB: Three? DB: Mmm-hmm [in assent]. It was us and a fellow by the name of Baxter (ph) and then another guy--there was three families. BB: Yeah. DB: That come together on that trip. And we was twenty-eight days coming out here. BB: From Dean Springs? DB: Yeah. We was twenty-eight days going a hundred--I mean two hundred mile, on account of the water. There was no bridges, you know, and they had to wait until creeks and branches went down before we could cross. BB: What type of work did your father do? DB: Farm. BB: He was a farmer? DB: Farmer for life. BB: Was your mother a midwife? DB: Well, she wasn' ; t a--registered or nothing like that, but she helped an awful lot of times. And from the time I was fairly old I had to go with her, because I was the oldest and if it happened at night and she was afraid to go by herself. So-- BB: What' ; s the favorite stories you remember of your parents telling about their early days? DB: Well, near about the earliest I can remember hearing them talk about was, oh, nineteen and I' ; d say ten--nine and ten--they used to tell us about there was a church house about eight mile from where they lived, and they all went to the schoolhouse and the only one that--where they went to church? Well, she used to go with a guy, and so this time when they went there, why she went with another guy and he come with another girl. And that' ; s the way they met there, and they was already engaged to be married, you know. And it seemed like that caused some confusion. (laughing) BB: I' ; d think so! DB: But that' ; s about as early--that' ; s about all I can remember. BB: Was your grandfather or your--anybody in the Civil War that you know of? DB: No. No, they wasn' ; t. There was a battle that was fought about four miles from where--where I was born. There' ; s a battle. Not major battle, just a little further over up there at Pea Ridge, they had that battle, you know, but-- BB: Have they told you, or do you remember any stories that they told about those days? DB: No, I never heard them mention it. BB: Do you remember them telling any stories about slave days? DB: No. BB: Indians? DB: No, there was no Indians back in there. BB: Okay. DB: They didn' ; t know what an Indian was until we started out here and got into Indian Territory. BB: Okay. What was your favorite toy as a child? DB: Well, our toys then was all made toys. I don' ; t remember daddy ever buying us a toy when we were a little kid. Other than that, we got--oh, I' ; d say [indecipherable] and I. Just before we come out here, that' ; d make us about five and six. Well, I mean he was five and I was six, you know. There' ; s thirteen months' ; difference in our ages. And dad come home one day with this little axe, one of these little axes, hand axes, you know. And it was a small one. And that' ; s the first present I can remember getting. And he took it away from us pretty quick because he looked out there and we was chopping on a tree in the yard. (laughing) DB: Yeah. BB: What was your favorite game as a child? DB: Marbles. BB: Marbles? DB: Yeah. BB: And what was your favorite food? DB: Well, I' ; d say peaches, apples, fresh fruit. UM: Fresh fruit. DB: That--I mean, it still is, of course. BB: Where did you go to school at? DB: First day I went to school--well, we didn' ; t, didn' ; t have no primary there, but you was allowed to go and sit in the school to--as an observer. And that was at Dean Springs. I went for about a week and then where I first went to school was at Mills Chapel here, after we got out here. BB: How many rooms were in the school building, do you know? DB: Well eight--uh, ten to twelve. Eight children. Eight scholars. BB: How many teachers did you have that handled all the grades? DB: Just one that handled all of them, she--just--yeah, and they had them from the primary--well, it started in the first grade. Again, there wasn' ; t no primaries in there, we started in the first grade. And they did have a system to where they--knowing that you couldn' ; t start in there, you know, without knowing something and was taught up until then. But they just had the one there. BB: Do you remember what that teacher' ; s name was? DB: No, that--one of ' ; em was Lamb (ph), and he was from Arkansas. But he was--I don' ; t remember the first one. All I remember about the first time down there--Ira Sloan (ph), she was about four or five year' ; older than I was, and--well, she was my girlfriend. We' ; d play together and we was the two oldest. I was the oldest boy going there at that time and she was the oldest girl. And, so she was up in a higher grade, of course. But we was--we paired off together and I got caught writin' ; her a note one time. And I didn' ; t write any more when the teacher got through with it. They didn' ; t believe in talkin' ; in them days. BB: How did she punish you? DB: Well I got a paddle! BB: Did you use slates, chalk, pencils, or what? DB: They [indecipherable] regular pencils. Slates to start with, and then of course we graduated into regular pencils. BB: Do you remember what subjects you studied? DB: Well, we only had reading and spelling and arithmetic. And geography. Course there was reading and spelling until you was about in the second grade, then you started on these others. And then you had geography and arithmetic--I mean, the--they had grammar. They' ; d call it two of every--draw everything on the board, you know, and big sentences running all over the board. Which never did do me no good. (laughing) BB: What about your school--well, how did you get to school? DB: Walk. BB: Walk. How far did you have to walk? DB: Three and a half miles. BB: What about your school lunches? DB: Well, they was biscuits and sausage and we always had to take--we took milk. One time--I know we did because one time--they was put in gallon buckets, you know, and there was four of us going at this time, and two of--two of our lunches were put together in one gallon bucket. And so that time, when we started to eat dinner, I had mistakenly got ahold of a gallon bucket of milk. That' ; s what I had. (laughing) DB: I remember that one. BB: Was that all you had? DB: That was all I had! Yeah! BB: The wrong bucket, huh? DB: I thought, that was the wrong bucket! And old Wayne (ph), he wouldn' ; t let me have none of his. Him and Bessie, there for a while they' ; d--when Marie got big enough, of course Bessie and Marie took their dinners [indecipherable] you know. But that [indecipherable] later before Marie come in to it, she wasn' ; t going to school then of course. BB: Okay, we forgot to mention where you lived at that time, when you went to school at Mills Chapel. DB: I lived two mile and a half north of Mills Chapel. BB: Was that what we knew as the old Baker homestead place? DB: No, it was the--we only lived there two year when we first come in. Nineteen-eight we farmed a mile and a half north of Mills Chapel, right in the bottom. And that' ; s the year it rained all that year, too. And we had eighteen acres of cotton there and had eighteen acr--bales of hay--I mean cotton--piled up in one pile, you couldn' ; t get out, the creek' ; s all up and couldn' ; t get it to town to sell. But it' ; s about--about a mile and a half from the school right there. And then we moved out of the bottoms up on the higher ground and there' ; s a place where Blansetts live, which was their mother was a VanOrsdol and she was kin to these VanOrsols we have around here now, that was their great-grandparents. BB: Hmm. DB: And that was nineteen-eight. I was at their--the oldest one--well, you know Fred and--well, I was at their wedding. BB: Oh, really? DB: In nineteen-eight. Yeah. BB: Nineteen-eight. DB: Mm-hmm [agreeing]. BB: Do you remember what the price of a new wagon was back those days? DB: No, I remember dad buying one, this was in 1911 was the first time we ever bought a--we ever bought a new wagon. But we bought the other stuff at the same that that he bought me a saddle, he was ready to start raising mules and he bought me a saddle to break ' ; em with. And it was all on the same--just packaged up with the wagon, ' ; cause--but I know he bought one. That was one of the old high wheel wagons. And then I know he bought one of the rope wheel--iron wheel wagons the next year--or maybe ' ; 13--that had where you turned--where it could turn around with. It took an acre to turn around with them old high wheel ones, you know. BB: Yeah. DB: ' ; Cause they wouldn' ; t really bend. BB: Do you know what brand some wagon it was? DB: Well, the first one we got was a Sooner. BB: Oh? [pause] Okay, what crops did you raise, Dillard? DB: Cotton, corn, kaffir corn, and milo maize, oats--for feed, you know, had to raise your own feed to make the next crop with. And so that' ; s about it. [indecipherable] for sorghum. We always had our sorghum and molasses, and-- BB: Do you remember what--when they went to town for groceries, do you remember what groceries they bought? DB: Well, they bought flour and coffee and the staples, things like that because we raised all the rest of the stuff, you know. And that was just it--flour and the coffee and the meal--we' ; d shell the corn, get up on the mule and take it to the mill and had it ground, you know. And we' ; d give--it' ; d cost us so much meal to get it, they took their wages out in meal. And that' ; s the way, that' ; s where we got our meal. BB: Did you work in the fields? DB: Yeah, from the time I was--I went--I done my first climb when I was a three-and-a-half year old. I can remember back that, to then. Can' ; t go beyond that. But dad was a breakin' ; land. Ten acres was a big crop for one horse back by then, and he was using an eight-inch turning plow, and one horse. We had an old sorrel one-eyed horse. And so [indecipherable] the house about a hundred and fifty yards, something like that, and mom asked me if I wanted to take him a drink, and I said, Yeah. Well, he saw me a' ; comin' ; , ' ; course he sat down on the plow and waited for me, and he got ready to go, he said, You want to plow? And of course I did. I couldn' ; t reach the handles but I could reach the bar that, you know, run acrossways there. And I don' ; t remember how far I plowed but anyhow it was until the plow fell over. (laughing) DB: And that' ; s that. That' ; s as far as I went. BB: Did you, did you have to help with the milking? I assume you had cows? DB: Yeah, yeah. I helped ma milk cows. BB: How old were you when you started milking? DB: Well, when I was about eight, well I--she sold cream and we were--nobody got no cream in the coffee, it was milk. And after the cream was skimmed off of it, you know. And it was my job every morning to take one of those old-time tin cups, beat it down to the cow lot, and milk enough milk for the coffee. That was my job in the morning while Liz (ph) and mom was gettin' ; breakfast. I' ; d run down there and milk that thing full of milk and mom would strain it and I' ; d put the cream in the coffee. BB: How many cows did you milk? DB: Well, it' ; s from one to three. Just according to the pasture we had. ' ; Cause most of the places you didn' ; t have enough pasture on there. BB: You farmed all the land, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I' ; d say it was, not counting dad and mom, there was eleven of us and we farmed about ninety acres and it took three teams to keep us going. ' ; Cause we raised all the meat and had chicken, eggs, geese, [indecipherable] and all that kind of stuff, you know. BB: Did--I assume that you chopped and picked cotton? DB: You' ; re not kidding! (laughing) DB: Oh, highest day of picking was 427 pounds. BB: I was gonna ask you how much you could pick in one day. DB: I didn' ; t pick that every day, but--because I had to--like I said, I had to help do the milking and stuff like that before I could get to the fields, see. And dad had to get on ' ; cause we always had the hands down there. And Wayne was always bragging about beating me at picking cotton, but he did because he got down there an hour before I did. Well, dad turned us loose that day and he told me, he said I' ; ll settle this. He said, you guys get down there, same time, and play at the same time, and then he said, that' ; ll settle this argument. So Wayne--I got 427 and Wayne got 421. BB: Well. DB: And he found two rocks in Wayne' ; s sack! (laughing) DB: Sure did! BB: As a child, can you remember any particular ornery thing that you did that was outstanding? DB: Everything! (laughing) BB: And how were you punished for it? DB: Same way! (laughing) DB: You had to go get your own switch at that time. That' ; s what they used for whipping. I think the first times I really got the biggest kick out of Wayne and got a whipping with it, he never would hunt, he never would fish, but he' ; d go with me when I' ; d go out to the horses in the morning in the pasture, sometimes he' ; d go with me if I had a hook set up and then we' ; d run the hooks, you know, and then bring ' ; em back in. One time I caught an eel about five foot long. He thought it was a snake. And so when I turned it around, why, he started running. He was afraid of it. And I took after him. Had that eel a' ; hanging on the end of that pole out there, you know, I took off running up to the house. My dad heard him a' ; yellin,' ; he come out there and went up there and never said a word, he just took that eel off of that hook and gave me a durned good whipping with it, just like a black snake. Then he hung it to the--nailed it to the post, skinned it, cleaned it, mom put it in the skillet, when it began to get hot it began to jump around--you know how frog legs will jump? Well that' ; s what that eel will do! And she--she thought something was wrong and just throwed the skillet and all out the door! (laughing) DB: But that' ; s--and about those--something--oh, about that time, the first thing in, I mean, thing happened that' ; s still in my mind just as clear as it was the day it happened: one Sunday afternoon--and like I said, we always had to make our fun, whatever we was doing. Well, there was a place at this [indecipherable] where they was building their first bigger building here at Mills Chapel--in brick. And they was gettin' ; sand out of there, and they had a hole--a cave out where they was diggin' ; out that sand. Well, man, a little girl by the name of Smith--Bessie Smith--was under there and Orville (ph) he was under there so far, and so when--' ; cause he was right close to the edge. Well this whole thing caved in. A big stump on top of it up there. And it buried her and it buried him in there. But he was close enough where we dug him before it smothered him. But it killed her. And, so we dug her out and there was a fellow there by the name of McClown (ph), and he was going to carry her, she was eleven year' ; old. She had a big crush on me and I had a crush on her sister. So (chuckling), but anyhow--I just picked her up and the bones was just crushed to where they' ; d pick her up and she' ; d just go right down between--it took two to carry her, you know, her [indecipherable] had broke up so bad. BB: Well. DB: And that has stayed in my mind all these years, just clear as it was that [inaudible]. BB: Well, you went to Mills Chapel before it became a brick-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What was it before that? DB: It was just a--made out of one of the [indecipherable] fixed at the--sawed at the lumber mill. BB: Okay. And what--did you ever live in a log cabin? DB: Well, no. Grandpa lived in a log cabin when we come out here, and he lived about a--nearly a quarter north of Mills Chapel. And we come out here that fall and stayed with them. And they had a big old log cabin--two big cabins with a big hall went between though, like they build ' ; em back then, and a kitchen was on the back. But there was two log cabins. They had a lot of log cabins. BB: The kitchens were separated-- DB: Yeah--no they was built on just a slope, built off from the top of the house. BB: Yeah. DB: The house would run like that and they would just run--just like this would be here, and they' ; d just run that kitchen right on back out [indecipherable] I don' ; t know what they used. Well, yeah, they may have [indecipherable] Surely they had a--one of them outfits, you know, a-- BB: Froe. DB: Froe. BB: Froe. DB: And a maul. And they' ; d hit that froe there and then go to workin' ; like that so it' ; d split them [indecipherable]. Yeah, I' ; m sure they got ' ; em. BB: What-what--how was your house furnished when you first remember? DB: Very poorly. We had the necessities, what it took. We had--most of the mattresses was made out of shucks. BB: Corn shucks. DB: Corn shucks, yeah. You would hear ' ; em rattling when you turned over, you heard ' ; em all over the house. And so then most of the kids slept on pallets. We never had over one bedroom until we got--it was later, until--in fact, that' ; s all we lived in that I know of. And most of the kids slept on pallets on the floor. And then we had--there was tents, just with hay and a cloth spread over the hay for a floor, you know. We lived in those, too. Then they got to where they' ; d box the tent up about [indecipherable], you might' ; ve saw some of them. Box a--put a floor in ' ; em and box a tent--I mean [indecipherable] one of the [indecipherable] and then put your tent over it, you know, and that way you had--down here you had lumber and then this tent was overhead. I remember, ' ; cause if it come a rain, they wouldn' ; t leak a drop but you go over there and take your finger and just go down like that, wherever you stopped, well that' ; s where that water' ; d run down in and start leaking. BB: (chuckling) DB: Yeah! We got more spankings for that when we were little! BB: So you had plenty of air conditioning that way-- DB: Yeah, we had plenty of air conditioning, that' ; s right. BB: Did your--I assume that your mother made your own soap? Made your-- DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she made all of our soap and, and she almost--well, she did make a lot of the clothes as far as us and the girls clothes, you know. And she made a lot of our shirts. And she--most of ' ; em was made out of flour sacks. And then they got to--if you remember, they got to where they got pretty flour sacks. We made everything out of ' ; em, then. BB: Yeah. DB: Pretty flowers, you remember? Yeah. BB: How did she do her laundry? And did you have to help? DB: No, I didn' ; t--other than carrying, drawing water, haul it out of the well and carrying it and keeping water in the pot--you know, they used to--well they' ; d use a rub board on a bench. And then they had a--some water sitting there in another tub that they would rinse them in. Then they went in to a big--one of them big old black pots and boil ' ; em. That' ; s where they boiled ' ; em, they used a stick to boil ' ; em, I mean-- BB: Punch it down. Punching stick, they called it. DB: Yeah. A punching stick, that' ; s right. BB: Yeah. DB: Broom, looks like a broom handle. BB: That' ; s what it was! (laughing) BB: Yeah, ' ; cause we had ' ; em too. DB: Yeah. BB: Okay, did you do your own butchering? DB: Yeah. BB: Both hogs and beef, or-- DB: No, we never did, we never did kill our beef. But there was people around in them days--and they found out something that was really good--if they was gonna kill a--they used a cow, they never used, they never used young stuff--they' ; d take a cow that was pretty poor, just run down, you know? Put her up and fatten her and right quick and you had the tenderest meat that you--you couldn' ; t buy meat like that. But just all that meat was put on right just fast, see, and it was really tender. And then they' ; d put it in a wagon, put some brush over it and keep the flies off of it, the son would take off around the country and you' ; d go out and tell ' ; em what you wanted, where you wanted to get it, and they' ; d take an axe and cut it off from that old cow. BB: Well. DB: Now they quartered it before, so they could handle it, see. BB: Was your primary meat pork? DB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mama used to cut up--I know one time, the most I ever knew of her cuttin' ; up was four twenty-gallon lard stands full of lard. And that year we had six hogs we cut up that weighed average 600 pounds apiece. BB: Now, how did you go about storing them? Butchering them and then storing the meat? DB: Well, you take a--which, as you know, with-- (laughing) DB: We' ; d always had a smokehouse and--which is generally made out of logs, and there would always be a bench in there and you put your--first you went in there with your fresh meats and you salted down, just covered it in salt, and the ham shoulders--there was all of it, you know. And then after that, what they called ' ; took salt,' ; why then give it a good washing and--with warm, soapy water--dried it good, and then put that--well they had a salt, a curing salt, and you could either get it with sugar in it or you' ; d put the brown sugar and rub that all over them hams and on--you remember how good that ham, that gravy was? BB: (chuckling) Sure do! Okay, you want to tell us how grandma rendered the lard? DB: Yeah, in this big pot I was telling you--in this big pot that-- BB: Did she render it outside? DB: Yeah, outside, yeah, over--outside the fire. BB: In the big black pot? With the fire built in there. DB: I stirred that ' ; til I was--thought my arm was gonna go in a circle after it come off! BB: Okay. Did you help in the kitchen? DB: Well, other than wash dishes. Because I began to wash dishes pretty early. Mama, she' ; s always a baby there every year or two. Well, Wayne and I was the closest, as I said, thirteen. Then about every two year it was. They were--so the last one was still a baby, you know, had to be took care of. And so they--I' ; d--when they' ; d go to town on Saturday after I got up in size, why, I didn' ; t care about going. Well, I' ; d stay there. I cleaned up and I washed the dishes and then we always had that cornbread and milk for supper. And I' ; d do that and I' ; d have the cows up and feeding done by the time they got home. And then I' ; d get on a horse and I' ; d go to town or somewhere. BB: What was your mother' ; s favorite recipes? Your fav--in other words, the-- DB: Well, I don' ; t-- BB: Other than cornbread. (chuckling) DB: Cornbread was the main one, I' ; ll tell you for sure. ' ; Cause she had a--kept a--there was some kind of a milk pie. She' ; d take--cook pie crust and set--start off that, put that in its place. And then she made it with milk and spices and it' ; s all stirred up, and it got kind of thick, and then she' ; d fill that pie crust to about half full, and then she set another pie crust down in there and do the same thing, sometimes I saw eight and ten crusts! BB: Well! DB: In one pie, see? BB: I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: And mostly, we liked vanilla flavoring. That' ; s what she' ; d flavor this milk with when she did it. Ahh, they' ; re great. They just--when that soaks in that crust? And you cut that out and then--' ; course you can eat it with a spoon or whatnot. But you cut it just like you' ; d cut cake. And that stuff was all smoked in the--I mean soaked into them, them crusts. And you would never taste anything that tastes better. And she had that then--she could do that, and that was dessert for the whole crowd, you know. The whole family. BB: What was the difference between stove wood and wash wood? DB: Well, wash wood was brush, mostly. You' ; d--the wash wood that we used was small limbs that was too small to cut up in stove wood length and rick up or something like that, you know. But we always' ; d knock the little limbs off of it then put that in there. And so that' ; s what we used for that. And the stove wood was cut--well, [indecipherable] about twelve inches long and then split into little small sticks--slabs, you know, and-- BB: In other words, your wash wood was scrap wood. DB: That' ; s right. It was just scraps and-- BB: Yeah, that' ; s what we-- DB: --and Mom used to save wood. Why, she used to save cobs--corncobs, you know--and burn them. We' ; d go in for dinner--so you' ; d have to do something quick if you went in to dinner, you know, in order to get back out in the field. She worked right out there with us. And so that' ; s why--that' ; s down there where used them corncobs. They made a hot fire, and made it quick. And ' ; bout all she had to do was warm up a lot of stuff. Sometimes, she would cook the full dinner and then we' ; d have our leftovers for supper. BB: Mm-hmm. DB: To go with cornbread and milk, you know. BB: Did she roast her own coffee? DB: Neh. No, we never did roast it. Always bought the beans, and we had that--one of them kind of square coffee grinders, you know, had the little drawer in it? [tape distortion begins] BB: Mm-hmm. DB: And you can grind that. And you' ; d grind that--and you' ; d grind that coffee so much--you' ; d grind that blame little deal under there and [indecipherable] it looks like--but you' ; d grind that full every morning for a pot of coffee. BB: (chuckling) DB: And then had to put so much milk in it, you know, to drink it. BB: Didn' ; t go far, did it? DB: No, it sure didn' ; t! BB: And she canned her own things-- DB: Oh, yeah, she canned. Oh, everything, I mean! We put sheets on top of the house--or shed-- like the kitchen I was talking about, and dried fruit, apples, peaches, and apricots, and we had a lot of that dried fruit. And then all we had to do was put it in sacks like, maybe like pillowcases, you know, and tie the end up and put it up in one of the rooms or something [indecipherable]-- BB: Do you remember how many cans of fruit you picked? Usually, per year? DB: The most I know that we canned was 600 quarts. BB: Goodness. DB: And that' ; s a lot of fruit. BB: [Indecipherable] DB: [Indecipherable] apples, peaches, plums, apricots, blackberries, and [indecipherable] she canned a whole lot of little potatoes, and put ' ; em in beans, when she canned beans, now she' ; d put them in beans, there, and [indecipherable]. I remember that year, she had went overboard, and she still had some, so, and she' ; d give the neighbors [indecipherable]. [taper distortion] DB: --and she had--forgot what I was talking about, now. BB: The canned fruit. DB: Oh, the canned fruit, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: And, but--was her own canning food was the worst and it was 1920 when they' ; d gone to town one day and she had about 300 cans in the cellar out there at the old place, you know where they moved from? And went home that night and she' ; d told dad to go down cellar and get a can of sausage. You know, you used to can sausage--put a little grease in ' ; em, turn ' ; em upside down so it' ; d seal the lid. He went down there and somebody had cleaned the cellar out while she was gone to town that day. And all the time that I' ; ve lived there, or I mean lived in Oklahoma--that was the first time they' ; d ever been bothered, anything' ; d ever been stolen. But you talk about a woman mad, that was one mad woman! BB: (chuckles) What about home remedies? What diseases and sicknesses did you all have, and she treated? DB: Well, I most type of the fevers-- BB: How did she treat them? DB: --Well most of it, for several years when we was kids, was chills. And so we had fever, you know, with them, them chills. Them chills was, was malarial. And quinine was the main--as dad used to say, when they was picking cotton, why we' ; d all be picking, he' ; d say, Come on, kid, and get your food, and he' ; d take out a quinine bottle and his knife, open the blade, and dip--get some quinine on the blade of that knife, put it on the mouth and then we' ; d take a sip of water to wash it down with. You talk about a bitter taste! Oh, boy! But that' ; s what we had to do. BB: Did you she give you spring tonics? DB: Yeah, we had--I probably can' ; t think of it now-- BB: We had black draughts. DB: Oh, we had that, yeah! That black draught! You' ; re not kidding! BB: (chuckling) DB: But there was some other kind of a tonic, was a just really a kind of a soupy stuff, and I hated that worse than-- BB: None of it tasted good! (chuckling) DB: No, none of it tasted--that asafetida you had around your neck didn' ; t smell good, either, when you went to school! BB: Did she make you wear that? DB: Ahh, all winter! BB: What did it have in it? The little bags? DB: It had asafetida! You ever smell asafetida? BB: No! DB: Oh, Lord! BB: What' ; s it made of? DB: Oh, I mean, it' ; s asafetida, I guess! (laughing) DB: But you can smell that stuff--I tell you, it' ; s just something. And you wore it all winter, see. BB: Oh you did? DB: Yeah! That-- BB: To prevent colds, or what? DB: To keep off the cold. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And you wore it just like you wear necklaces. Strapped around your neck--I mean tied around your neck with a string! And all the kids wore ' ; em, so you didn' ; t smell ' ; em, ' ; cause-- BB: You didn' ; t smell any worse than anybody else. DB: We all smelled just alike. ' ; Cause nobody' ; d take a bath or [indecipherable]. BB: Can you remember the flu epidemic of 1918? DB: Yeah, that' ; s when I joined the service, was in the later part of 1918. And I was working at Shamrock, and that' ; s the year dad bought the place over there and moved over there, at that last place where he lived. BB: Let' ; s see, that' ; s what--five miles south? DB: Five miles south and a mile east. BB: Yeah. Of Bristow. DB: Yeah. And so when he moved over there, there was only twenty acres broke out, and we' ; d just three teams, and so I wasn' ; t needed. So I went to--and grandpa had moved to Shamrock, and I went up there and stayed with them and--until they went to--well I was out in the hill camp barely three miles from Shamrock, but it was in the oil boom, you know, and that' ; s when they were building that there. And I stayed out there, they moved into town and then my uncle and me bought, bought that house and that' ; s the same where I stayed there. And that' ; s where I went--was building rigs up there, and when I left there and went to the Merchant Marines. And joined the Merchant Marines for the duration, and then--which wasn' ; t very long. We didn' ; t really make but one run, and we come in and we sailed--the Oklahoma ship Oklahoma was our headquarters there at--right across from Newport News, Virginia. UM: Norfolk? DB: Norfolk! Yeah. And so we was lined up there, getting ready to go on a trip, and take examination before--you had to take a examination before. And there was twelve of us lined up to take examination, and this doctor--which was a sergeant--I mean a lieutenant colonel--and before he got in there, phone rang and he went back and the war was over. They' ; d told him. Well, we' ; d enlisted for the duration and he turned us right around and we right around and went to the pay window and got paid off before we ever put on a stitch of clothes. That' ; s how quick they got us out of the Merchant Marines! BB: Well, when was it that you went into the Army? Before that? DB: Nineteen--no, I was nineteen after I come back. BB: Yeah. DB: From there. We come back and I got to thinking about it, and it was the only time that I' ; d ever have a chance to go over, you know, to that country, anyhow, and so, they--that army of occupation--remember them talking about the electrical coming over in and, was over in Germany on the Rhine River there for thirty-two months. BB: Okay, now tell me about this incident that happened in--May 13, 1920? DB: Well, there wasn' ; t much to it. It' ; s just--all I done was just went out a ways in that waters from out there, jerked off my coat in from out there and got that--picked up that baby, and-- BB: Did it fall in the water or what? DB: Yeah. It fell, fell out of the boat into the water. BB: Oh! DB: And it was floatin' ; ! The river was up, up big. And it was up to the banks of--way, way up there. And so, then of course, when I got--I could get to the bank with it, I had to swim, I couldn' ; t turn, they kept going down the bank, I had to swim at an angle and--with that baby--and so--I said baby, it was about a two-year-old. And so that was what it was all about. And then of course there was many that helped there, to, you know, that helped me out-- BB: Helped get you out, then. When did you come back from the army of occupation? [break in recording] DB: --we were talking about the Rhine. BB: Yeah. DB: Well, then the next summer, why the river got so low that the [indecipherable] was up normal, I bought a place there, it was four story high and built like a castle. I was gonna make money there, I was gonna rent it out to soldiers, you know, make kind of a rooming house out of it. Well, the outside just kept a' ; going down and going down and finally dried up and it was sitting there on dry ground! (chuckling) I was sitting there with nothing, just an old house sitting on a dry ground. But anyhow, when I bought that, I first took out forty marks to the dollar. The first dollar I got over there paid--we' ; d exchange it for German money, got forty marks to the dollar. And then the last one that I changed I got sixteen thousand. But you see, the stuff hadn' ; t gone up any higher. You could buy stuff for the same price at sixteen thousand for the dollar as you could for, for forty for the dollar. And then we was kings, that was all, really rich. And really had a time. And so, you' ; d get a good meal. Of course it was horse meat, we knew that. But then you could get a good meal for about seventy-eight cents and I [indecipherable] there and I got a shave every morning and a haircut every Saturday morning for inspection, and the highest barber bill I ever paid was seven cents. I kept a room--they' ; d pull out cards, you got white, blue, and red--and pink. Well, you started at the bottom and then you build yourself up. You got a white one, you didn' ; t have to stand on formation on Saturdays, Sundays--of course, you know, on Sunday they don' ; t have it. On Saturday. You didn' ; t have to be in bed on Saturday or Sunday night, all you had to do was be there Monday morning, you know, for revile. And so I went downtown and got a room in a hotel, there was a sitting room and a little--wasn' ; t a kitchen, but a sitting room and a library and bedroom. And it cost me twenty-five cents a month. So I kept that for, oh, I don' ; t know, several months. And anyhow, she began to talk around and [indecipherable] lip, this that and the other, and I asked one day, what was the matter with her? She said that she was gonna have to raise the rent. And I said, Why don' ; t you? She said, Well, she was afraid I' ; d leave and that was because it was after the war and the town was full of empty rooms, you know. And she--I asked her how much, I said, Tell me how much? She said, Well, she' ; d have to have so many marks, I don' ; t remember, but anyhow after that I had to pay twenty-seven cents instead of the twenty-five, you know. And you could get about a hundred miles from Koblenz to Cologne, they had big cathedral, a big cathedral up there. And I used to go up there and we had to leave on Saturday morning so we could stay all night up there and have Sunday to run around. And we was supposed to leave there, leave away from there at twelve o' ; clock midnight on Sunday night, but the train didn' ; t come in there ' ; til about 12:30 and of course there' ; s a [indecipherable] in the depot, why those MPs didn' ; t say nothing to you if you didn' ; t bother ' ; em. But anyway, we just barely get in, take just about around six hours to--for that train to go that hundred miles. We could' ; ve picked up every milk can and delivered every empty milkcan and everything else. BB: When did you get out of the Army? DB: (pause) Must' ; ve been--I just don' ; t know. [Inaudible] I sure don' ; t. BB: Do you have any idea how many--about how long you were in the army? DB: Well, I was in the army for thirty-two months--about three year. Three year. BB: Three year. DB: I was overseas thirty-two months. BB: Yeah. DB: I got a furlough. See, I come home from Germany on a furlough, month' ; s furlough, and then when, when I went back to New York--I was stationed on New Rochelle Island out just about, oh, eight or nine miles, something like that, from New York City, out in the ocean there. And they had--that' ; s where they had the guys come in. That' ; s where they landed, went out there. And so I put in, when I went back, for a furlough on a Sunday--I mean a Friday night. And I was supposed to [indecipherable] some mail to Hamburg, Germany. And I went in, and the major there in the office, he told me, he said, Baker, he said, There' ; s nothing I can do about it, said, These orders come from overseas, and he said, Ain' ; t nothing I can do about it. Well, Monday morning when I was supposed to leave I had my bags packed full of stuff, of course, I took it up there and I--and that' ; s one thing I swore to do, you never go by a blackboard without looking up there to see if he was on duty. And then he knows what to do for the day, [indecipherable]. And when I got up there, I looked up there, and I' ; d been transferred out to Camp Dixon, New Jersey. [Indecipherable] somewhere, you know, so that' ; s where I spent the rest of the time. That' ; s where I went back on furlough. I was gonna surprise dad and mom and all of ' ; em on furlough, and I had a pocketbook that the girl over there had got me for Christmas. And I had my money in it--you had to show three hundred dollars, for that' ; s enough to get you from New York home and back. And then they took care of getting to the boat and the boat ride, so you didn' ; t have to pay for that. And somebody got it, stoled it. I was using that--they used them--the lifeguard was blocks, about that thick square, of some kind of foam, and it had that ducking so [inaudible]. And I split one of them and put this pocketbook in there. Well, when we get there I want peanuts. I told the guy I' ; d pay for it, and we [indecipherable] and he said okay and well, I went to get the money and there wasn' ; t a bit in there, somebody' ; d got every bit of it. So when we got in there I had to call dad, have him to cash bonds at American National Bank, send to me for I could come home, see. BB: Well, let' ; s get back to your early days of--you know, back when you were growing up. I forgot to ask you these questions. What kind of socials did you have? DB: Parties. Just parties. Which were the type-- BB: What' ; d you do? What' ; d you do at those parties? DB: Well, just played games. BB: Yeah. What kind of games? DB: Oh, we--the name of them I--don' ; t know whether I can think of that or not. BB: Did you go to dances? DB: Yeah, after it got over, but that--that was a type of dancin' ; that the folks didn' ; t know it, see. BB: Was it-- DB: They' ; d let us go to a dance, but we' ; d go to a party and they' ; d make music, and of course we would dance anyhow-- BB: Was that what they called swinging games? DB: Oh, yeah. That' ; s-- BB: Really square dancing, wasn' ; t it? DB: And then that square dancing, yeah. But I can' ; t remember what we played, one of ' ; em was you ran a ring around and then you had some kind of cards and you drew these cards and then you had a judge sitting over there and you drew these cards. You hand to him and he would pair you up to somebody, then he was to judge whether--with a girl, see, a boy and a girl. And he was to judge and [indecipherable] you go out to the gate and back, or you do this or that, something like--just some silly thing, see. BB: Yeah. DB: And that--I don' ; t know what they called it, but that one, we played that one. BB: Well, what was the rules on courting? DB: Well, wasn' ; t a whole lot. Of course you didn' ; t go to courting no ten or eleven year old, stuff like that. BB: How old were you, and the girls too, how old were they when they were allowed to be out with the boys? DB: Well, dad never did--he never did say a word to me about--him or mom either one, about when I started courting. Because when we, when we was walking--we' ; d walk to church over there from that place, and the Smiths lived on the right, one of the girls I was talking about getting killed. And the Sloanes lived up about three quarters of a mile up the other way. Well, I come in, they both was afraid to go home in the dark. I' ; d have to take this one home, the Smiths home first ' ; cause that was just a quarter, see, then I' ; d come back and have to take Ira (ph) home and come back. BB: (chuckles) DB: That was every time we went to church, that' ; s what happened! BB: You walked ' ; em home. DB: Yeah, I walked ' ; em home. And that was where I just got in the habit of it and then Birdie--you remember my cousin, you know, Birdie-- BB: Birdie Dykes. DB: Yeah, Birdie Dykes. Me and her was just like two peas in a pod. I mean, we was together every minute we could. But a lot of Saturdays, why, I started over there and me and her' ; d come over to our house. We hunted, we fished, we done everything together. And so lots of times I' ; d go over there when [indecipherable] night when there was gonna be a party somewhere, you know, and then we' ; d go to the party and then I wouldn' ; t have to go back across the creek. So it just, it just--for me it just come in natural. And I didn' ; t get a riding horse until I was about fifteen year old. And however, dad would take--we had a little team of ponies, he called ' ; em ' ; cultivator ponies,' ; and he' ; d--that was after we got to going to dances, you know. He' ; d take them out at noon, he wouldn' ; t work ' ; em that afternoon and let them rest that afternoon for us to--me and Wayne to ride to church--I mean to dances. BB: Did you ever go to a chivaree? DB: Oh, yeah. BB: What did they do at chivarees? DB: Well, they--well it was before, before, what they done before a chivaree! (laughing) BB: (laughing) DB: But we never could find out! You know, did you ever know [indecipherable]? Well, we went to their chivaree, one time. Let' ; s see, that was in--in nineteen-and-sixteen. And so, wouldn' ; t let us in the house, we was knockin' ; on the door and they wouldn' ; t let us in the house, [indecipherable] hollered, Get away from here, and stuff like that. And, so we finally--Ms. Morgan--she owned that, that' ; s her--her place, she opened the door and let us in. And then she had to make them open the door to the bedroom. And [indecipherable name], you know how she' ; d talk, some of ' ; em said, What the heck was you thinkin' ; about anyhow, she wouldn' ; t let us in here? She said, I don' ; t know, but we wasn' ; t thinking about no chivarees! (laughs) BB: (laughing) DB: That used to be a big thing. And then another thing that happened--of course, this happened after I got back from the service--you got any more questions you want in there? BB: No, go ahead. DB: Well, it was--when I got married, you know that story. BB: Well, yeah--I want to get, I' ; ll hear about that now. DB: Well-- BB: How did you meet Edna? DB: Well, I met her, I went over to [indecipherable name] when they lived south of Mills Chapel on the hill over there and the [indecipherable name] had moved in a quarter north over there, gonna farm some land for Mills. And the first time I seen Edna, her mother come to the door and Edna was peepin' ; out around her dress. She was standing behind her, she wouldn' ; t--she wouldn' ; t get out where you could see her. And she was peekin' ; around her, around her lookin' ; at us, you know? She was about six-and-a-half, seven year old, something like that. And we just grew up together. But we never--no, we had a date, I mean, we was engaged before we ever had a date. BB: Oh, really? DB: Yeah. That-- BB: How old were you at that time? DB: I was--when we got engaged? BB: Mm-hmm. DB: Well, I was twenty-two. BB: How old was she? DB: Twenty. And she was engaged to Fred Mattox (ph). And so, at that time I was riding with twenty-two girls. Oh, I mean forty-two girls. BB: (laughing) DB: And a staff sergeant, and I would write--back then paper was just--as Terry (ph) knows--was just thin as, as a tissue paper. And you could write twenty copies at a time. And I' ; d write twenty letters--I wrote two letters! Two of ' ; em got the originals and the rest of ' ; em got copies! BB: (laughing) DB: My buddies would give me their sisters' ; address and their cousins' ; address and so I was the only one, really, in the whole bunch that showed any sign of Christianity. And so, the highest school--Sunday school--highest number I ever had in Sunday school was 500. Was right out in the street with, just, right off the street there. And then I got this Mary (ph), I kept writin' ; to her, and her letters just got--well, like I said, [indecipherable], see? And we' ; d then, we' ; d run around together all the time, just in groups. And I never walked her home in her life, and I never had a date or nothin' ; , and so [indecipherable] standin' ; out and I just cut the rest of ' ; em, you know, and I just write less often, and I was writin' ; to her, and I kept a' ; writin' ; to Betty Higgins (ph). UM: I don' ; t think I remember her. DB: You didn' ; t know her. Well, she never [indecipherable] and he--Levi, her husband--I mean, her brother--was about my age and Betty was--and Bessie was about the same age. And mom wouldn' ; t let Bessie go to parties and stuff then without--or dances--so I went with her, so I decided to go with her. And, well, and the same way, about Higgins, and so--naturally I' ; d walk with Betty and he' ; d walk with Bessie, you know. Well, that Betty, she was a mess. But anyhow, to make a long story short, she wrote me a letter while I was in Germany, the night before she got married. I didn' ; t even know they was goin' ; together. John Morton, you remember him? Well, that' ; s who, that' ; s who she married. And she (laughing)--she wrote me one of the durndest, mushiest letters you ever read! Well, I just fired one right back to her, you know? And John got ahold of it. Man, that sucker wouldn' ; t speak to me for two year after I got back. They got married the next day after she wrote it! They were already married before she got my letter! And I sent that mushy letter! (laughing) Both of us just fun, you know, it didn' ; t mean a thing, I didn' ; t--she was just a friend, that' ; s all she was to me, because she was too durned--oh, I don' ; t know. Now this might--the schoolteacher was a young schoolteacher there, and so we' ; d have things to do of a week. Literary on Wednesday night, you know, where we' ; d have Bible study now. And I' ; d walk her home, see, now nobody' ; s going over there and I' ; d walk her home [indecipherable] and I' ; d come right over the hill to the house. And, well, she was going to give a party to where she stayed. And Betty knew it, and so I went over there to pick her up to go to this party. And I said, Well, [indecipherable] or two. I said, We gotta go if we' ; re goin' ; get there before this, this party' ; s over. And she said, You' ; re gonna stay here, [indecipherable] you and the party. And I said, No, I ain' ; t either. And she said, Doc, there' ; s a party here. And I said, Well good, just give it--goodbye! I just took off! Because I' ; d already been invited to that other--she' ; s just doin' ; that just for meanness, see? And she did, she had her a party that [indecipherable] other at the other party. BB: Well. Where did you and Edna get married at? DB: Courthouse in Bristow. BB: In Bristow? And-- DB: We, we stepped up there, I had a suit at the laundry, and she had the dress up there, we wore old clothes, and we got a little train into Bristow. We changed clothes after we got in Bristow. Her brother went to the--up to the courthouse with her. I followed afterwards. We got married. He took her down and I waited a while, went down, we both went and changed back clothes. Got back on the streets, she went one way and I went the other. And then when she got with the girls, why, of course we was watchin' ; , see, when they got with the girls, why then, I went down there, and we acted just like we' ; d just met. And so, we rode that train back out home-- BB: Now, which train are you talking about, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: What, what train are you talking-- DB: That little train out from Bristow to Slick. BB: Okay. DB: That went down through the country. BB: The one that the tracks went south of Bristow? DB: Yeah, south of Bristow and we crossed it down--you remember where we used to cross that railroad track? BB: That crossed just north-- DB: The other side of Deep Fork? BB: Yeah, north of the Deep Fork bridge-- DB: That one, yeah, run right through them bottoms on there. BB: Okay. DB: And, so there was [indecipherable] farmers down there then, you know, and there was a branch there you could sit on and that was the depot where you waited for it, you know, to arrive. And we went home and we got there about four or four thirty, and so we sat there and talked for a little while and drank some lemonade. I took off for home, and I didn' ; t see her for a week. BB: (chuckles) DB: [Indecipherable name] and Georgia Henderson was gonna--they' ; d been goin' ; together for years--and they was gonna be the next to get married. Well, I just thought let' ; s slip up there and get--off and go up there and get married, and that' ; s how come we was to not see one another for a week after that, just to keep them from knowin' ; . And then we really could pour it on ' ; em when they found it out, you know. BB: Yeah. Let' ; s see, and you and Edna just had the one son, didn' ; t you? DB: Yeah. He' ; s sittin' ; right over there. BB: Yeah. What' ; s his full name? DB: (laughing) BB: Terry-- DB: Terry Howe. H-O-W-E. BB: And when was Terry born? DB: When was you born, Terry? TB: Twenty-eight. BB: Twenty-eight? TB: Twenty-eight. DB: Yeah, in twenty-eight, but what--August the sixteenth? TB: October. DB: October, wasn' ; t it? Yeah. October the when? TB: Sixteen. DB: Sixteen. Yeah, I [indecipherable] next time. BB: Alright, now just some questions from out of the blue. Did you ever meet any of the outlaws in this area? Or see of ' ; em? DB: No, not that--there was plenty outlaws but-- BB: You didn' ; t-- DB: There was horse thieves and stuff like that when we was movin' ; out here. Dad had to--got into Indian Territory there, and we had to stick with three wagons. You couldn' ; t make a circle but you could put a round up where you could corral the cows, you know, and watch ' ; em. And him and them other guys had to take nights about sittin' ; on in there with a shotgun, you could keep ' ; em from getting' ; stole. That' ; s what this--the law advised them to do because, said they really stealin' ; fast. Of course we were never bothered. Which I guess they knew-- BB: Did you ever hear of horse thieves being executed or hung or anything? DB: Huh? BB: Horse thieves. DB: Oh, yeah, they were all sent to old Judge Parker there at Fort Smith. That' ; s where them horse thieves were, they were all out of Indian Territory thieves horse thieves and murderers and stuff like that was, was sent to, there was--see that, Indian Territory, that was government. And he was a government judge, now, a federal judge. And the only one that was around. And this stuff was all sent to him. I mean, all the people were. And I saw his old hanging tree. Of course it' ; s nearly all dead now, but the bowl (ph) was still there last summer. BB: In Fort Smith? DB: In Van Buren. I mean, in Fort Smith, yeah, on there right there on the Arkansas River banks, [indecipherable]. BB: Do you know whether or not the Indians was for or against statehood? DB: I never did, and I never heard ' ; em say, they' ; d never given us no trouble, and--of course, that' ; s all we had to play with was colored people and the Indians, you know. And of course the Indians didn' ; t go to school, and well the colored people didn' ; t, either. There was that little old school house when we first started. But the Indians had a mile and a half north--west of where lived in nineteen-eight. And which is three mile and a half south of town, two miles east, and a half a mile north. You know where that old Indian stomp ground is over there? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: Well, that was a big, big Indian camp. There was teepees all over that place. And they would get big dinners and we' ; d, we went over there to different stomp dances, you know, and a big time, big [indecipherable]. And we' ; d go over there and--it was just [indecipherable] fact, when the dinner got ready, the whites eat first and then the Indians would eat, and then the colored people eat. BB: But everybody was welcomed? DB: Everybody was welcome, yeah, everybody was welcome, but that was--and you' ; d tie a horse up out there--well, first [indecipherable], but used to be one at Gypsy? Remember that, when I was talkin' ; to you about it over there? I used to go there, to tie a horse up out there somewhere. Next morning he wouldn' ; t be there, all you had to do was go down to the barn down there and he' ; d be in there in the stall area, eatin' ; hay. They' ; d take ' ; em down there and unsaddle ' ; em. First time they done that, man, we was [indecipherable], we just knowed our horses had been stoled, you know? BB: You worked in the oil--when did--you worked in the oil fields, when did you start working in the oil fields? DB: Nineteen seventeen. BB: And did you-- DB: At Shamrock, the hill camp, Shamrock. BB: Was it for Tibbens (ph)? DB: No, it was for the, it was for a private Frenchman that was tearing down oil rigs, buying oil rigs and tearin' ; ' ; em down, and then rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d--see, they' ; d rebuild ' ; em. They' ; d tear them, make them rigs out of wood, the drilling rigs. Then that would be tore down and them little iron rigs, you know, to pull rod and tubing, oh you saw them all over the country, [indecipherable] come later. And I was sittin' ; in on top of that thing, in grandpa' ; s cornfield, and he come down there and he said, What in the hell are you doin' ; up there? Well that scared the dickens out of me, I knowed I was just blowed up. And I got down and he wanted to know where I lived. And I told him, and, he said what I was doin' ; up there? And I--no, he said, now, You want a job? And, How old are you? And I said I was nineteen. And so he said, Well I can' ; t hire you at that--at that age. And--or I would' ; ve been ninetween in a little bit. But anyhow, that' ; s what they [inaudible], so he said, You got anybody up here? And I told him my grandfather lives up there, and he said, Let' ; s go talk to him. Well, he asked him about it and he said, No, I was buildin' ; rigs, said, Tearin' ; down that rig. He said, I want him to tear down that rig, so I went to tear the rig down, and I want him to pull the nails and stack the lumber, that' ; s what he told grandpa. So it was alright. That was my first oilfield. BB: When did you start to work for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Nineteen twenty-six. BB: What did you do working for Tibbens (ph)? DB: Well, you know, it was all rigs then, there wasn' ; t no jack-- [tape ends, beginning of second tape] DB: --nine, nineteen-nine, on Christmas Eve dad and Wayne and me went to town. And dad was gonna get Christmas, you know, presents for the kids, which was never very much, you know that. But anyhow, got up there and we always had a dime to go to the show, and that was it. Well, first time we met him, You boys (indecipherable) had any money? He knew we didn' ; t any money because we spent it when we went to the show. And (indecipherable) so he give us a quarter. We could not understand that. We met him three different times, and it was the same thing: You boys out of money? Yessir. Give us a quarter apiece. When dark come, why he just took off for home. Well, we didn' ; t know it was gettin' ; darker than a (indecipherable), see? BB: (chuckling) DB: When dark come, well he took off and left us there. BB: How old were you? DB: Well, I was eleven and Wayne was nine. Waye--I was--yeah. I was eleven. That was ninetween-nine, I was eleven year old. BB: And you were six miles from home? DB: Yeah! And so we didn' ; t know what the heck to do, we was afraid to go home. So Aunt Pearl, (indecipherable) girl, lived--she lived over there in the northeast part of town, where (indecipherable) town is now, in that district over there. And we decided we' ; d go there and spend the night with her and then walk home next morning. Well, we went by the Baptist Church and they was giving away candy. Christmas tree-had a Christmas tree and there was Christmas lights. Christmas Eve, now. And we went in there and sat down there and got us a bag of candy apiece and then took off for--took off up there. Well, they wasn' ; t at home. And so we (indecipherable) the window up and crawled in there and went and got in bed and her and her husband come in, and we was in their bed. And she saw us, boy, she took the cover off of us and gave out a yell and you talk about coming out of it, we did, you know. So she had us get in another bed so they could have their bed. And we got, took off for home. And then way after (indecipherable), the old man that we lived--or leased off of, he was an old Indian fighter, and he was a mean sucker. So them days, when you got your corn gathered for your--well, if it was betweenst that and your cotton, you know, and then turn your stock into this cornfield so the grazing' ; d save you feed. Well he told dad he couldn' ; t do it. And dad told him, you know, dad kind of went to town and got him one of those .22 six shooters (laughing). And I looked down there and that old man sat there, back to a tree with a shotgun, wherever he was gonna start putting this fence. So, dad, he slipped around down there and he kept lookin' ; at him, and finally he convinced his self that that old man was asleep, sittin' ; there leanin' ; up in that tree. So he slipped up there with a six shooter and took the gun away from the old man. Then the old man had to--he had one of those spells, he just couldn' ; t do anything anymore. Just, I don' ; t--what, what made him do it, but anyhow. And after he got over his mad spell, why, he said, Oh John, let' ; s get this fence fixed. He come out there and worked right in in helping us fix the fence, you know. Then his son sold the gun after that. Then he didn' ; t have it no time more. So, but, his oldest son--sold it. BB: Did you have Christmas trees? DB: Yeah. Oh, we went out to cut ' ; em. BB: Yeah. DB: Yeah. BB: What--how did you, how were they decorated? DB: Oh, we' ; d pop popcorn and we' ; d make strings, big long strings of popcorn on threads, you know. And we' ; d go to the woods and get them little red berries and then we' ; d go put (indecipherable) in the bottoms and there was a little bunch of--there was a little flower, bunch of flowers come up and they' ; d have the two little red--red crocus--that' ; s what (indecipherable) called ' ; em. And then there was a winter something, they called ' ; em. That' ; s when they bloomed was in winter. Of course, it would freeze after the--there was a hard freeze, you know, and we found some of them. Stuff like that, that was the only thing we had. Never thought about buying anything. BB: Did you exchange gifts? DB: Yeah. BB: Did you make your gifts, were they-- DB: Well, yeah, but they--dad, mom, they made ' ; em, you know. Most of ' ; em was socks, dresses, stuff like that. And maybe, when dad' ; d get two little sacks of candy, we' ; d get sticks of candy, a candy apiece, you know. And they' ; d get their sacks of them, these little--nickel apiece, two sacks of nickel--course (indecipherable) candy sacks. And that' ; s about the only gifts they exchanged. BB: What did you use for overshoes in the winter? Did you buy oversh-- DB: Flour sacks wrapped around your feet. BB: How' ; d you keep ' ; em on your feet? DB: Tied ' ; em on there with baling wire. Yeah. BB: That was all the overshoes you had? DB: That was all the shoes I ever had. We had--a little later, we had rubber boots. You could get around wet with ' ; em but you better not start nowhere in snow or something, I mean, your feet would nearly freeze off and then (indecipherable). But--see, when it snows, that sack' ; s tied around (indecipherable) (laughing). BB: I forgot to ask you, where did you take your cotton to be baled? DB: The Abraham gin here in Bristow. BB: Here in Bristow? Do you remember how much you got for it? DB: Well, the first year we got two cents a pound in the (indecipherable). Like I said, it stayed out there all--after all that rain, so it was sprouting when we hauled it to town. But we still got two cents-- BB: How long did it take you to make that trip? DB: Well you' ; d start early of a morning. And lots of times you would--later have to cotton gin' ; s got to--see we had seven gins here at one time. And then you' ; d get in here first thing you' ; re right on Main Street and block up there (indecipherable) wagons he saw on Main Street. Each gin was owned by different people. They both had their--all had their cotton buyers. Well you' ; d go up there and just park. Here' ; d come a cotton buyer. He' ; d dig down in there and he' ; d see what kind of cotton you had and they' ; d give you a bid on it. You' ; d sit there all day ' ; til they quit bidding on it, and then you had to unload that stuff by hand. And, so lots of times you' ; d leave where it' ; s three or four o' ; clock in the morning and get in nine, ten o' ; clock at night. Just--just how all waitin' ; up here ' ; til they sold it, then down at the gin, you had to wait there and they' ; d be lined up, you know, down there. BB: And you sold it to the highest bidder? DB: Yeah, sold it to the highest bidder. And it' ; d be long line lined up down at the gin. I know dad got so (indecipherable) mad one time, I went with him to take in a load of cotton and we waited, got in line, and so that--there was five or six wagons in line. Like I said, you had to unload it by hand, you know, throw it in them windows. Well I got hungry. Dad didn' ; t come back. And I got hungry and so I drove my team out to the side and went in there and he come back. Well, it hadn' ; t been unloaded and there it was. So it was still in line, you know. He didn' ; t like that much, either. [break in tape] DB: ' ; Course, it was pretty tasteful if it wasn' ; t for the drunks. BB: What year was this, Dillard? DB: That was, oh, nine, ten, eleven, along there. And they had--the little jail they had on the east side of the railroad track up there, was an eight-by-ten little cement building. And it had one door in it. Didn' ; t have a window, just had a door that had bars in it. And I never know' ; d ' ; em to send nobody to jail in Sapulpa, you know--that' ; s where the murderers and stuff was. It was just drunks and stuff like that. And so they' ; d put ' ; em in there to sober ' ; em up and then they had to work their time out on the street. And that' ; s the way they used to (indecipherable) all the streets (indecipherable). BB: Were all the streets dirt at that time? DB: Yeah, they was all dirt. Yeah, they were still all dirt when I left here and went to the service--I mean, went to work for (indecipherable). And when I come back from Germany, why, here was all these big flat-topped buildings and all the streets all bricked--I come almost gettin' ; back on that train, I thought I was on the wrong--the wrong town. BB: Do you remember when they were board sidewalks? DB: Oh, yeah, there was board sidewalks up until they--up until sixteen, seventeen. There was still board sidewalks then. And how--the stores, they was all separate. They didn' ; t build off of the other store, just had one wall between ' ; em. No, well you could just run down between any of the stores. BB: They weren' ; t connected. DB: No. I remember one time, daddy was working at Shamrock, that' ; s before I went up there. On Saturday he' ; d always bring a quart of Four Rose Whiskey with him. Me and Jay Dykes (ph) and Artie Dykes (ph) and Wes Bay (ph)--that' ; d be the, make the four of us. BB: Uh-huh. DB: And we' ; d buy--we bought ice cream, we' ; d spike it with that whiskey. BB: (laughing) I' ; ve never heard of that. DB: We vomited all over that town-- BB: (laughing) DB: Old Bill Chrishower (ph) was the Sheriff and I was the only one that had a coat on. Well, when we come out of there I had to have that in my hip pocket, see? And you know, the coats were spread back then? And old Bill hollered at me. Man, I took off down between one of them (indecipherable) buildings, just as I got to the corner up there, he got to the other corner up there, and he hollered and said, Should I getcha? You know, he said, Cover up that damn bottle you got in your pocket! Me and--one time, old Artie, he was just about to finish up a bottle, and threw it. We was--threw it down in the toilet. The toilets back then--we' ; d go in there and drink. BB: Outdoor toilets? DB: Yeah. And so he just started to take the direction of (indecipherable). One of ' ; em said, Here comes the law. Man he just dropped that right down in that hole, you know. (laughter) He sure trusted whoever--I (indecipherable). BB: I wouldn' ; t think so. DB: Ah, boy. BB: Do you remember the different stores that there were? The type-- DB: Well, we had a mercantile just across the tracks, so. Across the tracks--and then it was about two or three blocks before there was anything else. That was way off down there by the sale. And then Sam Abraham--well, Joe first had the--had the first little--well there was then Joe, he at that time, he was going around all across the town and, you know, you ever saw--maybe you got one--them big old red handkerchiefs, you remember--they used to be that big square? Well, he started, when he come to this country, he started around over stuff all over town, all over the country, walking. And he had them on a stick and he' ; d have ' ; em--he' ; d tie that together, see, in a nice (indecipherable) there and carry it on his shoulder. And his-- BB: What was he selling? DB: Cooking--stuff for the kitchen. BB: Oh, uh-huh. DB: Just stuff-that' ; s all. Just had cooking, cooking stuff. But in a year, went from there to a horse, and of course from that to a buggy, and then to a car. But then there was a little confectionary on the east side there--that' ; s where the guy, that' ; s where I got the first good chewing tobacco. I was eleven then. Dad was working out there on the tank farm with a team of horses. We had a little team of mares and they built them big pits around them tanks, you know, to keep the oil from leaking out--to hold the oil? Well them big horses--the dykes just about that wide on the top, you know, them big horses tired down and the others, they could walk along there. And so my lip then--nineteen ten, eleven twelve, oh, later part of eleven and the first part of twelve--what right there would have a big knot and it come up right there and break, and it' ; d go from there to the corner of my mouth and just turn wrong side out. And they' ; d get so bad sometimes and dad wouldn' ; t even let me go to school. And I' ; d go out and plow all that off with salve on that lip and a piece of cloth over it, and holding that cloth on there with my upper lip, see? Well, dad come home once after he left and went to work up there and I' ; d finished up farming. He come home on Saturday night--' ; course he did every Saturday night, of course, he' ; d stay all night--and he said, Well, dad you get ' ; er finished? And I said, Yeah. And he said, Well I talked to the boss, said, said You can drive the team and I can work (indecipherable) and I' ; m ready to get you some crew clothes. So we went up there the next morning--well that night though, Sunday night, Sunday evening, dad called Doc King and he come down there to the office, and he was the one that drew this salve and stuff got for my lip. So he looked at that lip and he said My! Well after he looked at it and turned me loose--and I went on down and rounded up with some of the kids I knew that I was playing with, you know, here in town, so with them--so he asked dad, said if I chewed tobacco. Or used tobacco. Dad said, well, he said, probably like any other boy, why, he was (indecipherable) and stuff like that, said, I don' ; t know, I never saw him. He said, Well, he said, I hate to put any kid on tobacco, but he said, Nicotine is the only thing in the world I know that' ; ll cure that mouth. Said, He' ; s got some kind of a blood disease. He said we' ; ve never found out what that (indecipherable) you know, medicine. But he said-- BB: Who was the doctor? DB: King. BB: Oh. DB: Doc King. And so he, he cut that--he got a pound, went in and got a pound of Beech-Nut plug, that' ; s what he used. He cut half into it and give me half of it. Well, I thought he was pulling my leg, you know, and I said, I don' ; t use that stuff. And when he told me what King said, well, of course, first time or two I was so sick I couldn' ; t hardly do nothing but vomit and, well I finally got used to it. He said I' ; d taken too big a chew. So I guess I started off with--I know I wound up taking too big a chew, my whole jaw' ; s full and here--but anyhow, when that half pound of tobacco was gone I had one little spot right there and I went and got a--he got another (indecipherable) for it, they had them dime squares about like that and they was marked off and then you' ; d cut one of ' ; em (indecipherable), looks like a, oh a, well it' ; s just a big handle and you put--lay the tobacco down there and there was a (indecipherable) and this knife, just put it right down and it cuts it and leave the wrapper on it too, didn' ; t cut that stuff-- BB: It wasn' ; t wrapped or anything. DB: Huh? BB: The tobacco-- DB: No, no, no, it was just (indecipherable) laying over there. And so that--(indecipherable), I still didn' ; t care about chewing tobacco. And so I found out dad, when he come--it went about middle of school and started getting sore again. It got sore again. And somebody told me--I don' ; t know whether the doctor told dad or dad told me or not, but he said, If you' ; d rather, when it gets that down, we could roll him some cigarettes then there' ; d be enough (indecipherable) in the cigarettes to hold it down for a while, and said, What' ; s next. I never could chew tobacco in the house, I couldn' ; t spit and hit a tub, I' ; m telling you, it was all over the floor. I don' ; t think I ever chewed tobacco and taken--standing in the door, maybe, talking to (indecipherable) you know, when I was working, before when I left, because (indecipherable) got back home, you know, but-- BB: Did you ever smoke, Dillard? DB: Yeah, I was smoking cigarettes then. I smoked for around, ' ; til nineteen seventy-two. ' ; Til-- BB: That' ; s quite a while, wasn' ; t it? DB: Yeah, and I chewed all the time, too, you know. And--oh, but I worked so much by myself, and you wouldn' ; t--[indecipherable]--but, if you' ; d get out with a cigarette, or just chew tobacco, [indecipherable] good drink or a good warm kind of water and take you a smoke then take you another drink, well you could go back and work a long time. It was company! Really company. Then after we moved up yonder, I was going day and night when [indecipherable] and I was--I kept a pipe in my mouth. Edna said I just smoked once a day, and that was from morning ' ; til night. BB: [chuckling] Is there anything in particular that you attribute your good health to, and your-- DB: I did everything that I wanted and anything I wanted and I' ; ve never had a nothing in the world to hurt me, and I' ; ve never been a--even when I was, weighed 184 pound, you know, when I come back from service, and never had nothing to bother me. And when I was at work in the oilfield, I ate eight eggs nearly every day. And I' ; d eat one for breakfast and I took sandwiches and then I ate ' ; em when I come home. And I never, never had nothing to--the only thing that ever bothered me in the least bit--chili. [Indecipherable] if I eat chili, then I' ; ll belch. And that' ; s how, that' ; s with chili. And just a time or two and it' ; s over, you know. But that' ; s the only thing, I never-- BB: Have you ever had any surgery? DB: Yeah, I had prostate gland trouble. They opened me up from the navel down as far as they could go without cutting things off, you know. [laughing] UM: [laughing] BB: [laughing] When was this? What year was it? How old were you when this happened? DB: Oh, that was when you lived at Wellington. You guys was down there one time and that' ; s the first time that they ever stopped up. And I wouldn' ; t tell you. UM: [Inaudible.] DB: When? UM: About 1965. DB: About ' ; 65. Well, anyhow I, I wouldn' ; t tell [indecipherable]. Boy, I was just a' ; dyin' ; nearly then. Just wanted to go to the toilet there all the time, you' ; d go and not a drop. And so when they left I called Chapman and told him, and he told me I needed to hospital. And I did, gave me a catheter. Well, I got along pretty good after that for a little bit, and then it hit again. That time, well, I wore the catheter for a week and it was a little one, that tube was too dang little, and [indecipherable] leak, and then that turned to crystallize, and that was eatin' ; me up. And I called to ' ; em, I said, That durned stuff' ; s eatin' ; me up, with that little tube in there leakin' ; down in there. So I asked ' ; em, they said, Well you know how to take it out, don' ; t you? And I said, Yeah. Well, okay. And anyhow, the next time it hit it was so thick, he said, I' ; m not gonna take no chances on it. Said, I' ; m going to Tulsa. Sent me up there, went Sunday evening and the intern come in there before I went to bed, take my fever and stuff from the nurse. And I was having fits. And the nurse said, Well you' ; re not touching him, and she went back and got a doctor. And he come back and he had--he had to drill that catheter in there, then, that pus was so heavy that it just--drilled in-- BB: It wasn' ; t malignant or anything. DB: No, it wasn' ; t. He finally got through and he told me, he said, Baker, I wouldn' ; t touch that with a ten-foot pole with a knife. He said, I just wouldn' ; t. And I laid there ' ; til the next Monday morning. Around ' ; 65,' ; 67, somewhere around there. BB: Did you ever have any serious illnesses other than that? DB: Pneumonia. Well, when I was eleven--when I was nine I had pneumonia. And then that fall I had pneumonia, a pneumonia fever, and started school and had to go back. And that' ; s when I started turning gray. My hair was just black as the dickens and when I was four or five year old it had curls hanging way down here, you know, two in front and three behind. BB: You-- DB: Mama wouldn' ; t stand the curls, she-- BB: She wouldn' ; t cut your hair, and you were four or five years old? DB: Yeah! They were never been cut! BB: Did she ever put dresses on you? DB: ' ; Til I was four year old, yeah. BB: Yeah. DB: That' ; s the [indecipherable]. I wore dresses ' ; til I was four year old. And when--[indecipherable] they' ; d make fun of ' ; em, about my hair one time. And I did have pretty hair! BB: And it came down past your shoulders. DB: Yeah! It hung way down here, you know. BB: Black and curly. DB: And mom and dad rode right in one evening, they' ; d been down to Indian Springs, went home and they was gonna chop a little piece of cotton over there, finish up cotton or something. And of course, I wasn' ; t big enough then to, you know, go and work the field. And boy when they got out, I got them scissors and I got a hold in there, I chopped it off just as fast and hard as I could up there. And this side the same way, you know. We couldn' ; t get the-- BB: So you-- DB: I thought mama was gonna have a fit when she come in there. BB: [chuckling] DB: Lordy, lordy. BB: So you got rid of your long hair, right? DB: Yeah. That' ; s right. I sure did. [break in recording] DB: They say they--all the murderin' ; all that time was--I was, we' ; s crossing the railroad track one time, I heard a shot. And Webb--Harrison Webb had shot one of--hmm. Fugate (ph). He shot the Fugate (ph) boy. They got in a fight, and this Fugate (ph) boy was coming at him with a brick. And he shot him, up there by where--oh, I' ; d say where that Western store is there, oh, where over--can' ; t think of [indecipherable]. But anyhow--the boot store up there. BB: Red Bird. DB: Huh? BB: Where Red Bird is? DB: Yeah! Red Bird. And it was right in along about there. BB: And that was the only murder in Bristow? DB: That' ; s the only murder that was--and then it was about, since 19-5, that' ; d be about nine, eight or nine years. BB: Uh-huh (agreeing). DB: And that was the only murder that was committed in Bristow. [break in recording] DB: And he got five year in the pen for it. [break in recording] DB: And he would hide that whiskey all over town. BB: Now this was your whiskey peddler. DB: Yeah! Yeah, he lived right up here. And [indecipherable] Tom liked to have a pint of whiskey. Now you go right up here and look in the such-and-such board, under a rock, it' ; d be there. And he was, okay, I' ; ll do it. And the depot, in the men' ; s room there was loose board under there. And you' ; d go up there. And if it was gone or it leaked or anything, go tell him, I mean he' ; d clean it up. Bill Baker' ; s, he had a blacksmith shop down here, [indecipherable] stuff up there. He' ; s sitting on his--one of those one-wheel planters? Tom come by and he told him, he called out and said, Tom, said, We' ; re about ready to go. Said, I' ; d like to have a half pint of alcohol. Tom said, Okay, Mr. Bill! He said, When I get goin' ; , just lift that lid there and reach down into there--and he sat right over it all the time, you know. BB: [laughing] UM: [laughing] DB: But yeah, they called him Tom Abraham because he worked for Tom--or Abraham. They called him Tom Abraham. And they' ; d arrest him and take him to Sapulpa and we' ; d all--bunch of us' ; d be out at the depot, you know, he' ; d say, Don' ; t worry, boys! He said, I' ; ll be back quick as hare, and sure enough he' ; d come back here. And I don' ; t know whether he paid fines or what, but he always come back here. They never left that guy in Sapulpa. UM: Hmm. [break in recording] BB: [narrating] Dillard was the oldest of the nine children of John H. and Cordelia Overstreet Baker. Both parents were born and raised at Alma, Arkansas. They moved to Indian Territory in 1907 and settled near Mills Chapel. John H. was a farmer. Dillard' ; s father, John H., died in 1965 at the age of 86, and his mother died in 1967 at the age of 87. They had been married sixty-eight years. In 1988, at the age of 90, Dillard was the oldest walker to participate in the weekend Crop Walk (ph) in Bristow. Each year he enters the Wildflower Run/Walk, always finishing the race. At the monthly Senior Citizen' ; s Luncheons--well in April of 1991, Dillard was named Senior Citizen of the Month. And at the monthly luncheons he washes dishes, clears tables, and gets things back in order. Assisting with commodities, Doc helps unload boxes because they are too heavy for the women to lift and there just aren' ; t enough men around to do it, he says. As commodities are delivered he sees that each person is helped when they leave. Senior citizens coordinator Dana Bridgeford said Dillard has an infectious, positive attitude which spreads among the seniors here at the center. At the--today, at the age of 94, he is still a young man with white hair, dancing blue eyes, standing straight and trim, with a sharp mind recalling wonderful stories, belting forth a hearty laugh for shooting a broad smile with a twinkle in his eye and giving a friendly wave of his hand as he briskly walks two to six miles in and around the city of Bristow each day, depending on the weather and circumstances. While walking each day, he says his goal is to visit shut-ins, the elderly, and whoever needs someone to listen. He said, I have the time to listen, and it does people good to talk to others. My life work is to do somebody some good. And he said, I' ; m just an old country boy and the greatest place I can be is outside. [break in recording] DB: And then-- BB: What was roustabouting? DB: That was pulling rods and tubing and layin' ; pipe, doin' ; all kinds of manual labor. And, well that--it all come under roustabouting, you know. Doin' ; anything that was supposed to be done in the oilfield, the manual labor. And, so then I repaired rigs and I pumped and I was--had that foreman' ; s job at Sapulpa up there, you know, in the thirties--yeah, thirties. And that was just--well, and then of course then was I had a job there for a long time, they building--drillin' ; a new well and we' ; d march out and go over there and work it for two or three days, test it, see how much it was makin' ; and grind the oil out, see what type of oil it was, stuff like that. BB: When did you move--where all did you live while you was working for Tibbens? DB: Well, I moved--I moved and I lived in four houses on the old [indecipherable], you know where it is, out south of town. And then I moved over there on the Lucas pumping job. BB: Where was the Lucas located? DB: That was six miles south and a half mile west and a half mile south again. Right straight, you turned in right in front of where your grandmother lived over there. BB: Grandma Foster. DB: Yeah. And you went south there, you know. Had a big tower over there. And I lived over there. And then I went back to the Tibbens in another house on the west side, and then I was moved from there to a house on the--I mean, out on the east side. And by that time I was repairman. And we' ; d be called out all hours of the night. If a belt broke on one of the wells, why you had to fix it. And the foreman wanted me to be a lot closer to him, see, he lived there in that old [indecipherable] house they had there, rooming house. BB: Do you remember the Depression? DB: Yeah! Let' ; s start there. I lived in Sapulpa when that was-- BB: How did it affect you and your family? DB: It didn' ; t affect us too much. We, we had--we didn' ; t have no money, wasn' ; t making no money anyhow, $135 a month. But we always had plenty to eat and we always had clothes and, you know, to get gas we used drip gasoline in our cars and I was pumping, so I used the same kind of oil in my car that they used in their engines, so that--we got by thataway. We had our meat, lard, eggs, fruit, canned stuff, chickens, and ducks. And all we had to buy was just the staple goods--flour, and of course we bought meal, then, by then. Bought flour and meal and coffee and stuff like that. My bill--my grocery bill for the four months was $22.80. In the four months I made $20. BB: That' ; s pretty good. [chuckling] DB: Yeah! [Indecipherable.] Thing of it was, you had to stay at--you had to spend twelve hours at home. The morning you had to go around and--all your wells. And you had to go up there on the hill there and you could look over the whole [indecipherable] go up there where [indecipherable] lived, you know, and see the whole lease. And noon--and then at six o' ; clock in the evening you had to make you round [indecipherable]. And all of that, why, I got five dollars a month. BB: Hmm. Do you remember the dust days in Oklahoma? DB: Well-- BB: Was there much dust in this area? DB: Yeah, no, not that I, no--there was a lot of dust, but what I mean, it didn' ; t ruin nothing, it didn' ; t ruin everything. But it was dry, but then there wasn' ; t--there was--we couldn' ; t have been counted in the dust bowl because the dust bowl was further west of us. BB: Did you know--had you ever heard of Earl, or did you know Earl Halliburton? Back then? DB: No, I just heard of him. That was all. BB: Did you ever cowboy? DB: Cowboy' ; d all the way from Arkansas to Bristow. I drove twelve head of cattle at seven year old. I drove twelve head of cattle on a mule--this, one of these guys was a horse trader. Every time we' ; d come to our--of a night, why, I was riding a different horse the next day. And mules--one time, driving a buggy with an old gray horse to it, and then one time a great big old gray horse and his back was just like as swaybacked, you know, but that' ; s the guy that I made the money off of. Big saddle on him, looked oh, he' ; s great. Pull that saddle off from there and he was [indecipherable] just like that, you know. BB: [chuckling] DB: Man, then they gave me money to swap back with him! BB: Did you ever know anyone who rode the Chisholm Trail? Or any well-known cowboys? DB: No, I sure didn' ; t. BB: Okay. [break in recording] DB: Let' ; s see, got married in ' ; 22 and that was that winter of ' ; 22. Why, we moved to Pryor. ' ; Course we went through Claremore and it was probably twenty miles east of Claremore. And so we had two wagons and I drove, of course, the cattle through there and Edna drove a young team of mules, just had been broke, all the way from here plum down there, through Tulsa, you know-- BB: Now, tell us the route through Tulsa. DB: Oh, we went right straight up where it is now. Right straight up and across the 11th street bridge. That was the only one that was there. Wasn' ; t any more bridge across the Arkansas then. And eleventh street went right straight on north. BB: Was it a dirt road? DB: Dirt? Oh yeah, everything was dirt roads up there then. I guess maybe some of the main streets, I don' ; t know what happened up in the main part of town, but I mean that was--yeah, it was, it was dirt roads. And then we went--when we got to reach the side of town, on the north side--well it would probably be the east side, then we went north about, oh I don' ; t know--several blocks and then straight into Claremore. And then you went straight in to--to--what' ; s it called, I said-- UM: Pryor. DB: Pryor, yeah. From there. And come a snowfall, we was going, and we spread our tarp over some limbs and Edna and [indecipherable] and I slept in one bed, moved a mattress down there and all three of us slept in the bed that night. And so they had no trouble, just no trouble at all, there was cattle going right down eleventh street there. BB: Eleventh street in Tulsa. DB: Yeah. Yeah. And then, got up there and, well I come back to Bristow then and I was gonna farm. I bought a team of mules and-- BB: How much did you have to pay for ' ; em? DB: Oh, I paid $120 for the team. And dad had an old hack he didn' ; t think could stay together, that I got up there with, and he was [indecipherable] to use it, and I drove that thing--got in it and drove that mule from here to Pryor. I made it in two days. And of course I used--I parked most of the night both nights, but what I mean, I just stopped one night from the time I left here ' ; til I got in. And I never will forget that, I stopped at--well I don' ; t know where it' ; s named. I stopped in Bristow and got a pint of whiskey, ' ; cause it was pretty chilly. And so [indecipherable]. Wanted to know what in the so-and-so I was doing out at four o' ; clock in the morning. And I went out there, and I told him I wanted some whiskey. And so he got up and opened the door and just went back to bed and said it' ; s over there in that sack. Said, Get you a bottle and get the hell out of here, I want to go to sleep! And he wouldn' ; t let me pay for it. Well, the next morning I got up and where I' ; d put the hay--I slept on the ground, you know, in the hay. And there was a sleeve, a black overcoat sleeve, just enough that I could see it out from under the hay? And man, I mean, it was a brand new overcoat. A heavy one, layin' ; there that somebody' ; d put that hay down and slept on and just left that hay there, you know. And then forgot their coat. And I was glad to see that coat. I picked up a guy, and he hadn' ; t had no breakfast. And I' ; d eat breakfast before I left there. But I asked him, and he didn' ; t have no--just a little jacket on, and it was, like I said, it was chilly and I had on this overcoat I' ; d found. And I asked him, I told him, I said, I got some whiskey, you want a drink? Oh boy, yeah. He took a drink of it and then after a while, he said, Can I have another drink of that? And I said, Yeah. Well, we got to Claremore and we went by a restaurant there and I told him, I said, Now, let' ; s go in and get some breakfast. ' ; Cause it was getting up, oh, pretty close to noon. No, he said, you ain' ; t buying me no breakfast, he said, Boy that whiskey made me all right, he said, I' ; ll get home now. [laughing] So he--he wouldn' ; t let me buy him that meal. But it--then, to match that, I was coming from Pry--from Claremore one time, I mean Pryor one time, in an old car, and between--we got there at Claremore, getting gas, and a guy stepped up and he says, Where you going? And I said, Bristow. And he said, Going through Tulsa? And I said, Yeah. Well, it was two hours before the bus was coming in. It was hot, boy. And we started out. He passed me--I mean the bus passed us about halfway between Pryor--Claremore and Bri--and Tulsa. We' ; d had ' ; em one flat after another and a' ; havin' ; to wait ' ; til it cooled off ' ; fore we could put a patch on it, and so, we-- BB: What type of car was it? DB: Had an old Chevrolet. And old solid--I mean wooden wheel spokes on it, you know, then-- BB: Wooden spokes on the wheel? DB: Yeah. [indecipherable] And so I told him, I come out and told him, I said, Catch that thing, boy, and go on in. Nooo, he said, I started with you, I' ; m gonna stay with you. And he did. We didn' ; t get to Tulsa just at dark. We was from just around noon sometime until dark, getting from Claremore to Tulsa. And-- BB: Because of flats. DB: Yeah, on account of flats, yeah. BB: Do you remember how many you had? DB: No, I know that when the boys pulled it off, R.D. Dykes (ph) and Wes Christian (ph), they drove to town and back and so they had two flats on there, and they were [indecipherable] talking machine needles. They couldn' ; t find out what it was doing, see. And so, and there was twenty-five patches on that tube. Little patches on there. And then--that was what they put on there, see. So it must have twenty-three or twenty--twenty-two or twenty-three, something like that on there. BB: I meant to ask you while ago, Dillard, you made your own sorghum when you were a kid-- DB: Oh, yeah. BB: Can you tell me how you made it? DB: Well-- BB: A lot of people don' ; t know, you know. DB: You stripped the cane--you have to-- BB: You raised sugar cane. DB: Yeah. And that was that yellow ribbon, that' ; s what made the best, clearest sorghum. And so you' ; d strip that thing--stuff--and you' ; d take the leaves and put ' ; em together, a bunch of ' ; em, and hang ' ; em, climb with one leaf and hang ' ; em on the ear of corn. I mean on the--lay it on the ground by the [indecipherable]. And then you went down, you cut the tops out of ' ; em. Then you cut the stalk--it was just a stick. Just a sugar cane stick, that' ; s all it was there. Then you rode it in, take ' ; em by the wagonloads to the mill, which was an old press pulled by horse and mule, and they took one guy--they' ; d pile ' ; em up out there. Pile it up. And they took so much sorghum for making ' ; em. It didn' ; t cost you no money, it was just kind of a barter system all the way through back in there. And so then they took--the guy finished his sorghum, I would have to carry the cane to the guy that was putting it in the press. He had--he sat on a block of wood there with the press and he would put that cane through there one stalk at a time. Well that juice would come out and run down there and go in a bucket. And then it took another one to carry that bucket away. And of course you had two, you know, he' ; d set one down and take that--take it away. The guys was making a sorghum. They had ' ; em in the sorghum pan and he had--that had doors to it--I mean, well, just what they called ' ; em--but anyhow this solid piece would run across over to here and then there was a little door where you pulled that down, and when you started in this last, the first one there, they' ; d cook so long there. You had a strainer, guy with strainers on each side, and they was straining that stuff off all the time as they went down and that took so long there, they' ; d let it in to the next one, and it took so long. And then he' ; d strain that. And then he' ; d let it down and they had four of them compartments. BB: Didn' ; t it have a foam on it that you skimmed off? DB: Yeah. And we had to take that sugar cane, get one of them stalks, you know, and peel it? And boy, it was just sweet, you know. And then we' ; d stir it around in them, that foam that they had in that can, whatever, in there, and lick that off. Boy! BB: [laughing] DB: That was really something. But we used to use about, around thirty to forty gallons a year. BB: A year. DB: Jim Dowdy' ; s folks, he had the four kids, they never bought no sugar. No, they used sorghum for everything. Put in their coffee and cakes, everything they made was made with--sweetened with sorghum. And they used--they used a fifty-two gallon barrel of it every year. From one making to another. BB: Hmm. DB: But you can' ; t buy it now. Now, then, they can' ; t get help. They take the seed of it, but the leaves are left on. They can' ; t, they can' ; t get nobody to work for what they can afford to pay, see. That' ; s what' ; s called strip it with a paddle. Them leaves a' ; hanging down there, and you just--that paddle, you just give it that right down one on each side, you know. And that' ; ll cut them leaves off. And so that-- BB: I know when you were eating the--sucking the sugar out of that cane, you could cut your lips real bad. DB: [Indecipherable.] You sure could! Well, I' ; ll tell you! And if you left a little--a little piece of that outside on there, you know, that' ; d just cut the dickens out of you! It sure would! Yeah. But there' ; s nothing like it. And it was healthy--I mean, the iron is in that stuff, you know, and this--oh, it was really healthy. BB: Well, what' ; s the outstanding memory you have of Grandpa Baker? DB: What grandpa? Dad' ; s dad? BB: Well, yeah, dad--your dad' ; s dad, uh-huh. DB: Well, I never was around him a whole lot. He--he moved down here in 19 and 3. And he was the one that moved--I was talking about him living in that log house? BB: Mmm-hmm. DB: And so that' ; s where we, where we stayed that first winter when we come [indecipherable] that I was talking about. BB: And see, he was born April the 16th 1852 in Tennessee, wasn' ; t he? DB: Yeah. Right. And that--as far as--that' ; s all I know. Is when he was born, there. And I never did know him before I come to Oklahoma. BB: Yeah, he died January the 17th 1937 in Shamrock. DB: Right. BB: And then your grandmother' ; s name was Julia Ann Creekmore. DB: Right. BB: She was born October the 12th 1859 in Whitley County, Kentucky. DB: Right. No! She was born in Shamrock! I mean, died in Shamrock. BB: I mean born in Kentucky. DB: Yeah, born, yeah. I was--yeah. BB: Yeah. Do you have any outstanding memory about her? DB: Oh, yeah, she was a great old grandma, I' ; ll tell you. She--she never went to school a whole lot. She had all them boys and then all the mens' ; clothes was that heavy, oh what is it? It wasn' ; t outing (ph), it was twill kind of stuff, you know? BB: Ducking? DB: The mens' ; clothes. Trousers was made out of. And that' ; s what she used to make quilt tops and bottoms for. And put that cotton in there and sometimes she had--then she' ; d put another one of them in between. She' ; d put three of them together, see, and then sew ' ; em together. It' ; d weigh about twelve pounds. And you couldn' ; t hardly turn over under ' ; em. And but anyhow, she always loved to--chewing tobacco. And so grandpa, if he ever knew it, she didn' ; t know it. She kept it in a bucket hanging over her stove, a little bucket up there. And I used to go, she' ; d run out when he wasn' ; t around, well I' ; d run over to the store and get her--her chewing tobacco for her, you know. And I--I just--after I moved, after I moved to Shamrock in 19 and--1915, yeah 1915, yeah. Well, I wasn' ; t around her too much because went to school in the winter and there was farming in here, you know, and--but after I went to work up there at Shamrock, why I was up there in about three mile of ' ; em there, they lived in town then. And so I was down there a lot. And she was just a swell old gal. BB: And your dad, John H. Baker, was one of fourteen children, right? DB: Yeah. And six--six that died that' ; s not on record, got no record for it. BB: Let' ; s see, how many brothers and sisters did you have? DB: I had seven bro--six brothers and two sisters. BB: Okay, and you lost your wife when, Dillard? DB: Twenty-fourth of May 1990. BB: Nineteen-ninety. And how have you been spending your time since then? DB: Well, I' ; ve been looking after old people, shut-ins, sick people. Goin' ; to the hospital, I made three trips to the hospital. BB: Don' ; t you go to the hospital about every day? DB: Well, no, I don' ; t have time to go every day. The only way I can do that is to go to the nursing home is to make the circle and come and go to the nursing home as I leave the hospital, you know. And now, if there' ; s somebody out there I know, why, I go every day. But if there' ; s somebody out there that I don' ; t know, if I don' ; t know any of ' ; em, I try to make it three times a week and then there' ; s always some new people there. And nine times out of ten, you' ; ll run into some friend that' ; s out there in the beds, you know, sickly. That' ; s why I like to go out there because I hate to get the paper the next day after some of my friends has been in the hospital for a week and goin' ; home, not knowin' ; nothin' ; about it, you know. And then these people here, these women, about ninety-six percent of the people I visit is women. And some of ' ; em, they got high closets, like in these places here, they come in with their groceries and stuff, they put ' ; em on their high shelves, none of ' ; em can reach ' ; em. And half of them is not allowed to raise their hands over their heads because on account of heart and different things that' ; s wrong with ' ; em, so I go in and I put their groceries down where they can get ' ; em and if they don' ; t feel good I wash their dishes and I scrub their floors, I rake the yards, I-- BB: Are any of them older than you, Dillard? DB: Huh? BB: Are any of them older than you? DB: Naw! BB: [laughing] DB: Naw, now they drop down in the eighties from where I' ; m at. BB: [laughing] DB: Oh, Doc Chapman--I mean, not Doc Chapman--Kelly. BB: At the bank? DB: Yeah, he introduces me as ' ; the guy that takes care of the old people.' ; BB: [laughing] DB: But I love it. That' ; s--it' ; s true. The only thing about it--just like one morning here, I got a call at six o' ; clock from west eighth. And I beat it up there. Well, that day I got to the--Bell' ; s (ph) restaurant ten minutes after twelve for breakfast. And I asked ' ; em, I said to her, I said, Can you fix me a breakfast? She said, I sure will. Said, Did you have breakfast? I said, No. So she just fixed me up-- BB: What do you, what is your av--average, what do you usually eat for breakfast, Dillard? DB: Well, my average breakfast [laughing] if you' ; ve got room enough to put it down [laughing]--my average breakfast is two or three slices of toast, or three to four small biscuits. Two eggs, that they' ; re medium. One of the big eggs and two slices of bacon--beef bacon--and a bowl of oats and [indecipherable] and a glass of milk, cup of coffee with raisins in my oats. And that' ; s about what I nibble on for breakfast. BB: [laughing] DB: And I' ; ve been doing that for years, I mean. [Indecipherable] and Dr. Chapmans would say, Stay in there, whatever you' ; re doin' ; , keep doing it. BB: It sure hasn' ; t made you gain any weight. DB: That' ; s--no! No, they tell me about the [indecipherable] effect. I' ; m not worried about no fat. BB: [laughing] Let' ; s see--and your real active in the Christian Advent--Advent Christian Church. DB: Yeah, I' ; m an elder out there, also a lifetime deacon. BB: And you sing in the choir, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. I sing solos. BB: Yeah. That' ; s great. And you walk every place you go, don' ; t you? DB: Yeah. And anyway within three mile, that is, if I go anywhere within three mile I, I don' ; t take no rides. And when I take my six-mile walks I don' ; t--it' ; s not a six-mile walk if I ride any of it, see. So I don' ; t--the only time I' ; ll ride is maybe if I' ; ve been out workin' ; , comin' ; home, and somebody' ; ll stop, You want a ride? Or I' ; ll go to the grocery store and have maybe a bunch of groceries, carryin' ; ' ; em home. While, they' ; ll stop and I' ; ll ride on occasions like that, but when I' ; m out for a walk, I--I just don' ; t ride, that' ; s all. BB: You' ; ve been traveling quite a bit the last few years, haven' ; t you? DB: Yeah, yeah, I' ; ve took a little ten day trip out to Michigan. And-- BB: Didn' ; t you fly someplace in an airplane out there? DB: That' ; s out there, yeah. And then I went up again this winter when I went out there. There was about a three--three-inch snow one night there in Wiscon--Minnesota, and Betty' ; s husband is in the airplane business and--he' ; s got five of ' ; em. So he--up that morning and he said, Well, Dillard, said, This would be a good day for us to go out and go up and see what we can see. We went over there and he pulled out one of them danged little old airplanes, one-engine. So we got in there and he stepped on--turned the key on to start it and the back was just dead as the dickens. Well, I thought they' ; d run off for breakfast, see, and he called up there and they come down and filled him up with gas, charged that back end, and we took off. I--he was--us--I' ; d got out and he did too, of course, and he said, Well, let' ; s go, and I thought, I don' ; t get in that thing, I want to get in that thing or not and go up with a dead battery, and he went [indecipherable] and he said, Battery don' ; t have nothing to do with this thing runnin' ; , said, All that does is start it! BB: [laughing] DB: So, we was up about three hours and it' ; d snowed, saw snow. And, so we' ; re coming--it' ; s up there, he said you could see three snows--three states from 3,500 feet where we were at. And got down and he said, Well you can tell ' ; em that you saw eleven thousand square miles of snow today. And I--that' ; s all we saw was snow. We didn' ; t see a bare foot of ground nowhere. And then one day we got in that thing and went 170 miles for dinner! That--we was all [indecipherable] way out there on the prairie and all it was out there was just a big old restaurant. And of course there was an airfield oh, half a quarter or something up back of there. Just that restaurant sittin' ; out there by itself. They had parking places like you mark ' ; em off for cars, you know, and I mean they pulled in there and parked in there. We got ready to go back, you have to--need a kicker to kick him off it would take off. [laughing] BB: [laughing] I forgot to mention this, but didn' ; t you play baseball when you were young, Dillard? DB: About fifteen year. Well, I played longer than that. I started in at twelve and I played ' ; til--well I quit playing when, when--oh, I played up ' ; til forty-something, I don' ; t know, in the forties. BB: What would--you had--there was nine in your family. You had, there was nine of you children-- DB: Nine of us kids, yeah. BB: Yeah. What were their names? DB: Well, there was Dillard-- BB: Your name is Dillard Roy, right? DB: Right. And Bessie, Marie--Bessie-- BB: Gertrude. DB: Gertrude, yeah. And Marie, and then Marie, Oval (ph). I don' ; t remember what Marie' ; s--if she had a middle name or not. BB: Ophelia. DB: Ophelia, right. And then there was Oval (ph). And his name was Oval Lee. I don' ; t--Oval, yeah Lee. He didn' ; t have--there was Wayne come next in. Wayne come next to me, there, you know. I' ; ve left him out, didn' ; t I? BB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: He was, well his other--Wayne L. Wayne L. He didn' ; t have a middle name. And when he went to the service he had to have a middle name. And so he gave them Lee. He forgot about Oval (ph), Oval' ; s name of being Lee, so we had two Lees. Two brothers that' ; s named Lee. And so that--and then there' ; s Clyde. And I don' ; t know his middle name. BB: Alexander. DB: Yeah, Clyde Alexander. I never could remember Alexander. That--don' ; t hear it often enough. BB: Let' ; s see, and you are the first one, two, three-the first five of you were born in Arkansas. DB: Arkansas, yeah. The rest of us in Oklahoma, Creek County. BB: Then there was Virgil, Argil, and Basil. DB: Yeah. BB: All born in Bristow. DB: Mmm-hmm. BB: Okay. Okay is there anything else that you' ; d like to--a story or anything that you' ; d like to add to give people a picture of the early days of Oklahoma, or your early childhood? DB: Well, about the only thing I know is first, about the state, they was--this part of the country was all prairie. There was the biggest old trees, you see, around the creeks and stuff was all trees. And well, Bristow, they had a few just a tree there, and you know, Oh this tree has been set out in there. And all this scrub oak there that you see between here and Shamrock, I remember, that was solid prairie when we come out here. It' ; s just scrub oak, you know, ever since then. And, well we had an old bridge out south of town and we had a big Indian camp just a mile south of town out there, just back on the other side of Deep Fork? There was teepees all over that place out there. And-- BB: Were ya' ; ll afraid of the Indians? DB: Nah. We was raised with ' ; em, see. And there was [indecipherable], I was raised with ' ; em. And, well, Dad and I was comin' ; to town one day and we crossed the creek down below where the bridge is now, forded it, and they' ; d had a big to-do up there the night--well, it was the end of a big stomp dance deal. And there was an Indian layin' ; there and a hog eatin' ; on his face. BB: Oh, gosh. DB: And Dad went up there and told ' ; em about it. ' ; Course they didn' ; t know about it. And he went up there and told ' ; em about it, and told ' ; em, said, he was going in, if they didn' ; t agree to do something, you know, go down and get him, he was going to send the law out there. And they said they' ; d sure get him. Well, when we come back by there, he was gone. [end of recording] audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml OHP-0017-01_Dillar_Baker.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
1220
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dillard Baker
Description
An account of the resource
In this 1993 interview, Dillard 'Doc' Baker discusses coming to Bristow in a covered wagon, childhood on the farm, and growing up in Bristow
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0017-01
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993-04-13
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/d4452204e1c0dc9d22a1be1cf7fd277e.jpg
0b24908b1ce16362b7c7cf2a049fd830
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/ff9128c5c63174c9258e9c7cb3e0a1db.jpg
1a7db612a10667e53a9d3bb7ee6798fe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Denise Caves
Carolyn Foster
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dora Wolfe
Fay Freeland
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0043A_Wolfe_Freeland.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 June 27, 1979 OHP-0043A Dora Wolfe OHP-0043A 0:00-23:44 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Dora Wolfe Fay Freeland Denise Caves Carolyn Foster 1:|9(11)|35(7)|54(3)|59(11)|66(5)|78(5)|92(10)|107(10)|114(6)|125(12)|142(4)|155(2)|180(5)|194(9)|205(3)|222(14)|260(13)|276(8)|285(4)|292(5)|303(4)|327(10)|347(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0043A Wolfe-Freeland.mp3 Other audio 2 Moving to Bristow DC: It’s 1979. Ms. Wolfe, when did you first come to Bristow? DW: In 1919, my father bought the Morris Drug Store, and he changed the name to Palace Drug Store. And I came the following year to teach school. I taught school one year. He sold out, oh my goodness, [indecipherable]. He’d have to stay open until 11 and 12 o’clock. And it was just too hard on his health, so he sold out. Then we went to Claremore, and I was there three years, and he had a drug store over there. Then I liked it better here, so I came here. Dora came to Bristow in 1919 when her father purchase Morris Drug Store and changed the name to Palace Drug Store. Morris Drug Store ; Palace Drug Store ; teacher drug stores ; Moving to Bristow 65 Attending Various Colleges DC: Now where did you go to college? DW: Well, I went to… [Inaudible] can’t think of the name of it. DW: Central College for Women [indecipherable]. At that time we called it Methodist College. DC: Now how was that? DW: That was at Central. DC: Uh-huh. DW: You want some of the members that went there? DC: Well, okay. Dora talks about attending various colleges throughout the years. Central College for Women ; Methodist College ; Mrs. Exelton ; Ola Lee ; Tahlequah ; University of Idaho ; University of Oklahoma Attending college 235 Car Accident We had a wreck on the way. I was supposed to go with this group that was to make an English course, you know, for the Bristow Schools. [Indecipherable] And I was supposed to that, and we had a wreck. The car had [indecipherable] so Ms. Exelton sent a telegram to Mr. Black, I mean to her father. Well, she did have uh…what am I talking about…well, anyway, she had, well anyway. She was sending that to the telegraph office, and she said, “I wished you were going.” And I said, “I was just sitting there thinking that trying to word a telegram to Mr. Black.” So I did. She almost jumped over the table, because she had about a thousand more miles to drive by herself. Well, so we got the telegram the next morning from him. Got out of bed and he said, “By all means go on.” He said, “I’m sorry you had the wreck but I’m grateful that none of you were hurt.” So we went on. On a trip to the University of Idaho, Dora and Mrs. Exelton were in a car accident. car accident ; University of Idaho car accident 442 Elementary School Library Program DC: Well, what year did you, do you remember, that you started the elementary school library program in Bristow? I think that’s been such a… DW: I don’t remember what year we did but… DC: But you did it a long, long time. DW: Yes. I graduated from Tahlequah in 1936 and we moved back here. Then we bought our home. Dora talks about starting the elementary school library program and completing her library studies at the University of Denver. library program ; University of Denver ; University of Oklahoma elementary library program 603 Instilling the Love of Reading DC: And you taught at least two generations, didn’t you? Read and enjoy books. DW: Oh, yes, that many. DC: Enjoy. Well, I’ve always given you credit for instilling a love of reading in an awful lot of Bristow kids. DW: Well, we had fun, really. I think they enjoyed it, and they enjoyed books and poetry that they memorized. You taking this down? Dora taught at least two generations to read and enjoy books. library ; poetry ; reading love of reading 631 Teaching the Bible DW: Well, we memorized portions of the Bible in Psalms. In the third grade, we had the 23rd Psalm and in the fourth grade, I think we had the 100th Psalm. The fifth grade we had the 121 and in sixth grade we had the, we had the 101. No, we had the first one. I told Brother Bob (ph) the other day, we were talking about it, I said I’d get arrested now if I did it. Dora explains how she taught different grades to memorize different Psalms from the Bible. Bible ; Psalms teaching the bible 767 Bristow Public Schools DC: Well, now you’ve been to lots of different schools and things, how have you felt that the Bristow, as a school system, rated during the years you taught? Do you feel it rated high or? DW: Not because of my teaching. DC: No, but I mean the whole school. DW: Oh, yes. Very high. And you know one time it was considered extremely high. Mr. Black became president of the Oklahoma Education Association. You remember that? Dora talks about how Bristow Public Schools were known for offering a quality education. Bristow Public Schools ; Mr. Black ; Oklahoma Educations Association Bristow Public Schools 962 Superintendents DC: Who was the superintendent that you served under first? DW: [Indecipherable] Hutton. DC: And then after Hutton came? DW: Black. DC: Black? Unknown: E.H. Black (ph). DC: After E.H. Black (ph), was it Bob…? DW: Bob Nichols. DC: And then Mr. Sims. DW: He was a nice one. Dora talks about the superintendents she served under. Bob Nichols ; E.H. Black ; Mr. Hutton ; Mr. Sims 988 Doll Collection Unknown: And Dora, you had such a nice doll collection, did you not? And you would bring those dolls… DW: Oh yes, used those a lot. I still have those. If we get the museum, I can put those in the museum. DC: Oh, well how nice. DW: If we get it, but… DC: Well, we’ll keep working. DW: Now really girls, I don’t like the idea of having that depot for us, because those trains are going by, people that are going to donate old things, supposed it’s glass and things like that. You know, the vibration will break those. Dora talks about her doll collection and how she would like to donate it to the museum. doll collection ; Jones Estate ; Mr. Hockett ; Mr. Shibley ; Mr. Veit ; museum doll collection ; museum 1299 Traveling to Tulsa DC: Did you get to Tulsa very often? FF: No, I didn’t. DC: Wasn’t like nowadays when you could zip up in an hour. FF: No, if you went to Tulsa, you went to Tulsa in a horse and buggy. I never will forget one time when we went, and it was stormy. All the roads were terrible, just muddy, and I wondered if we would ever get home. Fay talks about traveling to Tulsa via a horse and buggy. buggy ; horse ; traveling ; Tulsa traveling to Tulsa 1352 Shopping in OKC FF: No, we generally stayed at a hotel. And then my folks, my mother, she did a lot of her shopping in Oklahoma City. DC: Oh. FF: We’d go down there and buy clothes. We could go down and get on the train in the morning, and go down and get a train back at night. And we’d have time to do all our shopping. DC: Do you remember the stores in Oklahoma City where you shopped? Was it John A. Brown? Fay talks about her family shopping for clothes in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City ; shopping shopping in OKC MP3 In this 1979 interview with Dora Wolfe, she talks about all the colleges she attended and being a long-time teacher in Bristow Public Schools. Fay Freeland also discusses shopping and traveling to Tulsa in a horse and buggy. DC: It' ; s 1979. Ms. Wolfe, when did you first come to Bristow? DW: In 1919, my father bought the Morris Drug Store, and he changed the name to Palace Drug Store. And I came the following year to teach school. I taught school one year. He sold out, oh my goodness, [indecipherable]. He' ; d have to stay open until 11 and 12 o' ; clock. And it was just too hard on his health, so he sold out. Then we went to Claremore, and I was there three years, and he had a drug store over there. Then I liked it better here, so I came here. And I was here the rest the time. I taught 39 years in Bristow. My first year I taught in Miami in 1919, and that' ; s when we moved here. DC: Now where did you go to college? DW: Well, I went to-- [Inaudible] can' ; t think of the name of it. DW: Central College for Women [indecipherable]. At that time we called it Methodist College. DC: Now how was that? DW: That was at Central. DC: Uh-huh. DW: You want some of the members that went there? DC: Well, okay. [Inaudible] DC: Oh, I know, well just skip that. You went to Central College for Women. DW: And, then, well Roger' ; s nephew [indecipherable] was there. DC: Oh, really? DW: And niece was there. And Ola. DC: Ola Lee? DW: Ola Lee [indecipherable] and then all of us sisters went the next year. Rachel, [indecipherable] she was at home. Now, was there anybody else that went from here, I don' ; t know. But those did. I graduated from there in the next year, I mean two years. And that' ; s when I came here. DC: Uh huh. DW: And I was sort of a strange student. I didn' ; t hardly stay in the school all the time. So I went to Enid one summer with some girls, some teachers that was on from Claremore. Let' ; s see, where I went the next time. I suspect it was OU. And I taught--I went to school--I don' ; t know how many summers I went to school at OU. I worked off my, I was majoring in English, and I worked off my major all except one course. And then I went to Tahlequah. My mother went to Tahlequah. She didn' ; t graduate. She got married when she was too young. And I graduated from there, oh, in 1935, I believe it was. Then in the summer of 1936, Mrs. Exelton and I went to the University of Idaho. And we made a nice trip out of it. We had a wreck on the way. I was supposed to go with this group that was to make an English course, you know, for the Bristow Schools. [Indecipherable] And I was supposed to that, and we had a wreck. The car had [indecipherable] so Ms. Exelton sent a telegram to Mr. Black, I mean to her father. Well, she did have uh--what am I talking about--well, anyway, she had, well anyway. She was sending that to the telegraph office, and she said, " ; I wished you were going." ; And I said, " ; I was just sitting there thinking that trying to word a telegram to Mr. Black." ; So I did. She almost jumped over the table, because she had about a thousand more miles to drive by herself. Well, so we got the telegram the next morning from him. Got out of bed and he said, " ; By all means go on." ; He said, " ; I' ; m sorry you had the wreck but I' ; m grateful that none of you were hurt." ; So we went on. DC: Now this is on your way up there to go to school? DW: Uh huh. The University of Idaho. Oh, and we had a lot of fun going up there. You can imagine all those roads up there under construction. You know that had a bad winter, and we road across the bridge. I wouldn' ; t do it again for any amount of money. Ms. Exelton said, " ; Now we will wait here and see if those people get across." ; Oh, it was dusk. She said if they can get across, we can get across that bridge. It wasn' ; t completely [indecipherable]. So went on across and we stayed at, well, I don' ; t know where it was. And then we would go to Oregon and stay there, which we did, but we didn' ; t get there as soon as we thought we would. Then we went across to [indecipherable] and on into, we were about three days late, getting into Idaho. And, oh, we had a lot of fun-- DC: Now that' ; s the only year that you went there? DW: That was the only year and we came back through Yellowstone Park and just made a trip coming back, the girls came back with us. DC: Well, now, were you doing library work at that time? DW: No. Then when I came back, I went to--oh, I took a number of courses at OSU during the summer. You know, when Clara Jones (ph) was living, we went with her. DC: Yeah, uh huh. DW: And we took those during sometimes on Saturday. And then-- DC: Well, what year did you, do you remember, that you started the elementary school library program in Bristow? I think that' ; s been such a-- DW: I don' ; t remember what year we did but-- DC: But you did it a long, long time. DW: Yes. I graduated from Tahlequah in 1936 and we moved back here. Then we bought our home. Well, I bought the home in 1943. And I think I' ; d been doing library work then, because I went back to OU and took a library, not a library course, but they were, oh subjects that--they didn' ; t count toward a degree in library science, but it was on children' ; s education and things like that. I met this teacher from the university of, I can' ; t remember, she was my instructor and we became very, very good friends. So, I said, that' ; s what I' ; ll go on and get a degree in library science. I said Irma (ph) [indecipherable] she said they don' ; t give any work toward a degree in library science at OU. I wasn' ; t satisfied, and I wrote to OU, and they didn' ; t. Oh, yes, at that time, I went to school at SMU, too. [Indecipherable] So I said, well, recommend some. Well, she said, Chicago, and I said, yes, I thought about Chicago, and it was too hight. And I thought about Peabody, and it was too high. And she said, well, it' ; s nice in Denver. She taught in Denver, too. But she would come to Oklahoma and teach in the summer time. So, she wanted me to go to there, so I got my degree of library of science at the University of [indecipherable]. Unknown: Denver. DW: Denver. And that was in 1941. And from then on, we-- DC: And you taught at least two generations, didn' ; t you? Read and enjoy books. DW: Oh, yes, that many. DC: Enjoy. Well, I' ; ve always given you credit for instilling a love of reading in an awful lot of Bristow kids. DW: Well, we had fun, really. I think they enjoyed it, and they enjoyed books and poetry that they memorized. You taking this down? DC: It' ; s all taken. DW: Well, we memorized portions of the Bible in Psalms. In the third grade, we had the 23rd Psalm and in the fourth grade, I think we had the 100th Psalm. The fifth grade we had the 121 and in sixth grade we had the, we had the 101. No, we had the first one. I told Brother Bob (ph) the other day, we were talking about it, I said I' ; d get arrested now if I did it. DC: Oh no. DW: But those children learn in a hurry. So, one little girl came to me and she says, " ; Mrs. Wolfe, the police said [indecipherable]." ; I said, " ; What?" ; Well, she said, " ; It' ; s not from our Bible." ; She had to have him [indecipherable]. And I said, " ; Well, alright, learn it from your Bible. I said, " ; You bring me your Bible or a copy of the Psalm that' ; s in your Bible and if you get it right, that' ; s fine. It doesn' ; t make any difference to me whether you learn it from there or from yours." ; So that' ; s what she did. [Inaudible] DW: So, that' ; s what I was teaching. DC: Well, you had a great deal of pleasure, didn' ; t you, from knowing all these children. DW: And, in between there, I taught music and did a lot of plays. Not plays, but-- DC: Programs? DW: Yeah, but we didn' ; t call them programs then. DC: Assemblies? DW: Oh, dear me. Girls, I' ; ve been asleep. I can' ; t even talk. DC: Oh. DW: But, we taught, oh I taught, music for quite a while. I went to OU and took my [indecipherable] public school music. DC: Well, now you' ; ve been to lots of different schools and things, how have you felt that the Bristow, as a school system, rated during the years you taught? Do you feel it rated high or? DW: Not because of my teaching. DC: No, but I mean the whole school. DW: Oh, yes. Very high. And you know one time it was considered extremely high. Mr. Black became president of the Oklahoma Education Association. You remember that? And, well, I don' ; t know. Alright children go back to him and apologize for the way they' ; ve acted. That was [indecipherable]. And said well I' ; m just sorry that I acted like that. They weren' ; t real bad. DC: They were just being boys. DW: They were just being mischievous, that' ; s all they were. Nobody, I didn' ; t have anybody that was malicious, unless it was one or two of them, and they came from homes, you know, where that was typical. It was a lot of fun. DC: Well, I' ; ve had a lot of students tell me, grown citizens, senior year, grown people say that you were one of their very favorite teachers, so you evidently made an impression. DW: Well, thank you. Let me see, I never taught but three or four places. Well, let' ; s talk about the first one in Miami. I guess you want this. I taught for $75 a month. Taught fifth grade homeroom. [Indecipherable] came over one day and said we' ; d like you to return. And I said well Mr. Locklin (ph), I' ; ve already been offered a job in Bristow, and I said, I can get $90 and stay at home! His eyes just popped out of his head. He said well, I can' ; t give you that. And I said, well, I' ; m sorry, because I' ; m going to Bristow. DC: So, you did. DW: So, I did. And then I taught there three years and taught here the rest of the time. Which made 43 years. DC: Forty-three years in all. Well, that' ; s a quite a bit of time. DW: I liked Miami real well, don' ; t put this in, but I didn' ; t care too much for the superintendent because he was, oh, he came from Wichita, and every time he had to teach with me, it was about Woodstock. And I don' ; t like that. DC: No. DW: I did teaching in Wichita and teaching here and wasn' ; t supposed to teach here. But now in Wichita we did this and Wichita we did that [indecipherable]. DC: Who was the superintendent that you served under first? DW: [Indecipherable] Hutton. DC: And then after Hutton came? DW: Black. DC: Black? Unknown: E.H. Black (ph). DC: After E.H. Black (ph), was it Bob--? DW: Bob Nichols. DC: And then Mr. Sims. DW: He was a nice one. DC: He was the last one. Unknown: And Dora, you had such a nice doll collection, did you not? And you would bring those dolls-- DW: Oh yes, used those a lot. I still have those. If we get the museum, I can put those in the museum. DC: Oh, well how nice. DW: If we get it, but-- DC: Well, we' ; ll keep working. DW: Now really girls, I don' ; t like the idea of having that depot for us, because those trains are going by, people that are going to donate old things, supposed it' ; s glass and things like that. You know, the vibration will break those. DC: Hadn' ; t thought of that. Unknown: [Indecipherable] DW: Pardon? Unknown: Maybe we could use the City Hall. DW: Well, I talked to Mr. Veit about that. I said, well, it was condemned one time. And he said yeah, but I believe that it could be made into a good one. I said, well, you have a parking lot problem. And he said, yeah, that' ; s right. And David said one time that there was one in the new buildings. So, I don' ; t know, I' ; ve been on the committee for BPW for years, and I' ; ve talked to David a number of times, and I talked to [indecipherable] about getting money, you know, from the, Jones Estate. I never could get any satisfaction about what they were going to do. And I talked to Mr. Shibley, and Mr. Shibley has given a lot of his things especially petroleum things, oil equipment in the fields, you know to Drumright. Now, Emma Lou' ; s husband, what' ; s his name? He stopped me the other day and he said, Dora, what are you doing, hun? I said, I' ; m finding a place to have our museum. He said, I' ; ve got some things. Well, I said, save them. Don' ; t you dare... DC: Mr. Hockett. DW: Hockett, yeah. He said, I have some things. And a number of other--now Kay Carter (ph) has, too. Which she said you want to hurry up and [indecipherable] and get upstairs to get them. Don' ; t put that in there or she will kill me. But I did want to put the dolls in. Now there are a number of them, foreign dolls, and they' ; re authentic. All those I put up for the children and for [indecipherable] were authentic. Many of them were ordered from [indecipherable] Company which is in Independence, Kansas and Independence, Missouri. I hadn' ; t ordered any for a long time. I have a story about a native woman that they sent me, and a negro doll [indecipherable] and it was supposed to have been in the 80' ; s. It was made of [indecipherable] and they illustrated it for me, and I didn' ; t know they were going to do that. And they illustrated it for me and told the story of it. And they told the story of some of these, for instance, I had a Polish doll, and it was in the port in the United States when the Nazi' ; s-- Unknown: Dora, aren' ; t you going to eat? CF: Well, you' ; ve seen a lot of interesting things. What, as you remember, was the most exciting or the most drastic thing that happened in Bristow? We didn' ; t ever have a tornado that blew the place away like Drumright. Didn' ; t have an Indian raid. [Inaudible] FF: Oh yeah, had that and then on the weekends, you know, the Indians always had something out in the country. And people would go out, they' ; d put on their dress up clothes and perform. CF: Then you went to the ball games, didn' ; t you? FF: Yeah. CF: That was on Sunday afternoon? FF: Well, whenever it was. DC: Did you get to Tulsa very often? FF: No, I didn' ; t. DC: Wasn' ; t like nowadays when you could zip up in an hour. FF: No, if you went to Tulsa, you went to Tulsa in a horse and buggy. I never will forget one time when we went, and it was stormy. All the roads were terrible, just muddy, and I wondered if we would ever get home. DC: Well, you couldn' ; t--could you go in a day in a horse and buggy? Could you go up and then come back in one day? FF: We generally went up and stayed all night. DC: Where did you stay in Tulsa? Was it a hotel or at a friend' ; s house? FF: No, we generally stayed at a hotel. And then my folks, my mother, she did a lot of her shopping in Oklahoma City. DC: Oh. FF: We' ; d go down there and buy clothes. We could go down and get on the train in the morning, and go down and get a train back at night. And we' ; d have time to do all our shopping. DC: Do you remember the stores in Oklahoma City where you shopped? Was it John A. Brown? [Inaudible] FF: Yeah. I got a bad broken leg [indecipherable]. DC: Oh, gracious sakes. I' ; ll say you have. FF: That' ; s what put me in here. I broke the leg and the ankle. DC: Yeah, well, it' ; s good we had a place where you could come without having to actually go to the hospital. FF: Well, [indecipherable] I had help [indecipherable]. [Inaudible] FF: I had to go some place where-- DC: Yes, that' ; s right. Well, we surely do thank you for sharing your-- FF: Well, you' ; re welcome. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0043A_Wolfe_Freeland.xml OHP-0043A_Wolfe_Freeland.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
6900
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dora Wolfe
Description
An account of the resource
In this 1979 interview with Dora Wolfe, she talks about all the colleges she attended and being a long-time teacher in Bristow Public Schools. Fay Freeland also discusses shopping and traveling to Tulsa in a horse and buggy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0043A
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1979-06-27
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/db90d1d0f4929df754fef0006929db4a.png
57f3fa691bb7298f055ad512f5db0f8b
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Frank Deuel Chapman
Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml
Interview Keyword
This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are
included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration
between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the
OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the
“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
Frank Chapman
Bristow
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 OHP2-0001 Frank Deuel Chapman and Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman OHP2-0001 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bristow Histories Frank Chapman Bristow Frank Deuel Chapman Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman Debbie Blansett MP3 1:|28(2)|48(3)|71(13)|100(2)|117(1)|128(7)|144(13)|156(13)|191(5)|208(2)|240(6)|270(15)|291(2)|333(9)|372(14)|396(7)|411(13)|433(4)|474(1)|517(14)|538(7)|563(3)|591(9)|645(3)|694(4)|724(6)|753(6)|799(5)|832(6)|890(2)|944(14)|965(2)|975(9)|986(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP2-001 Frank Chapman.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it’s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I’m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their—in their home, and they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you’ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that’s all of us. We’re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? Introduction of interview and early history of Frank and Gloria Chapman covered wagon ; embalmer ; Frank Deuel Chapman ; Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman ; Hugh Chapman ; Thelma Chapman ; World War I Chapman Funeral Home ; Frank Chapman ; Gloria Chapman 263 Moving to Bristow and early medical practice DB: Alright. Okay, so today you’re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency—an internship in Tulsa—Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long—P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would’ve probably worked out. Discussion of moving to Bristow Dr. Norfleet ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp ; Rinda Farris ; Sisler Hospital Bristow ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp 516 Colleagues and Co-Workers DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office— FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet— FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had ‘em spoiled, though. Discussion and memories of co-workers Charmaine ; Dr. Norfleet ; Edna Mitchell ; house calls ; Jo Forester ; June Keiser ; Mrs. Korkames ; Myra Jane Trigalet ; Thea Runt coworkers ; doctor ; nurse ; receptionist 691 Hospital Fundraisers DB: So, at the—at the hospital, they—it had been built in the— FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still— FC: It was— DB: It needed to be updated— FC: It needed to be updated— Fundraisers for medical equipment fundraisers ; hosptial ; nurses ; St. Francis ; Tracy Kelly fundraisers ; hospitals 787 Rexall Drug Store FC: --I had one other story: I—I went—well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and—(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was— Meeting Berta at Rexall Drug Store Bristow ; Rexall Drug Store Rexall Drug Store 844 Friendship with Max Kemp DB: And Max—you didn’t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I’d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in— FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and—you know. Friendship with Max Kemp Jennifer Kemp ; Max Kemp Max Kemp 892 Stories about Emory King FC: Anyway. That’s—that’s about the only good stories I’ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don’t know whether I’ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine— DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) Stories about Emory King anesthesia ; Emory King ; ether ; surgery ; tonsils Emory King ; surgery ; tonsils 1071 Changes in Anesthesia DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. Changes in anesthesia anesthesia ; ether ; St Francis ; surgery anesthesia ; ether ; sugery 1152 Retirement DB: And you were in practice from— FC: Sixty-four to— DB: Nineteen sixty-four— FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? Dr. Chapman eases into retirement brain bleed ; Bristow ; Cherokee ; retirement retirement 1300 Church and community involvement DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma’am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and— GC: Yeah, he’s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time— Church and community involvement Bristow ; church ; football ; wrestling church ; community 1369 Discussion of children's events and family tree DB: And I know that you have been—I’ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn’t seem as important as they used to. They—then they were really important when the kids were parti—my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We— FC: My daughter was a majorette in the—or, a drum major her senior year, and— GC: And in the band. Discussion of children's events and family tree band ; Debbie Chapman ; fishing ; football ; Hugh Chapman ; hunting ; music ; wrestling community ; family ; sports 1533 Updates on grown children DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso—or that’s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. Updates on grown children Benny Chapman ; Debbie ; Frankie Chapman ; Matt Chapman ; Physician Family 1687 Story of the name " ; Petula" ; and the birth of Matthew GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was— FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just— Story of the name " ; Petula" ; baby ; Matthew ; names ; Petula Petula 1842 Conclusion and Poem by Deborah DB: I just think it’s really neat that—that just the distance you’ve come. And the people that helped get you there—that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn’t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I’m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine— Conclusion and Poem by Deborah Deborah Chapman ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp Conclusion ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp ; poem FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it' ; s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I' ; m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their--in their home, and they' ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you' ; ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that' ; s all of us. We' ; re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? FC: Born January the 26, 1934 in Cleveland, Oklahoma. DB: And you were Frank Deuel-- FC: Deuel Chapman. DB: Were you born at home or in a hospital? FC: At home. DB: And your parents--what were their names? FC: Hugh Chapman and Thelma Chapman. DB: And were your parents married? FC: (chuckling) Yes, they were married. DB: Or at least that' ; s what they told you. FC: (chuckling) That' ; s what they told me. DB: Tell me how they came to be in Oklahoma. FC: My mother came to Oklahoma from Kansas in a covered wagon to a little community outside of Stillwater, and they lived in a sod house for a while and eventually they moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma, where her folks--Mrs. Deuel and Albert Deuel--ran a hotel and boarding house. And the whole family participated in the running of the--feeding of workers and housing. So it was kind of a nice operation. GC: Mmm-hmm. DB: And your dad? FC: My dad came to Oklahoma after serving in World War II. GC: One, hon. FC: Oh, World War I. Gee, I kinda--that' ; s right. World War I, to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and he was a licensed mortician--or embalmer, and worked there for a little while and then moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma and operated out of one of the furniture stores there for about a year or so, and then opened his own business--the Chapman Funeral Home. And it' ; s still in existence. It' ; s called Chapman-Black, now. DB: And he runs it with his son-in-law--or I mean he ran it with his son-in-- FC: Yeah--he run it with his son-in-law. DB: And you said that--that he had a claim to fame, your father. FC: Yeah, he was one of the first legal embalmers in the State of Oklahoma. (chuckles) DB: And pretty young, when he became that. FC: Yeah, about I think nineteen, something like that. DB: How many brothers and sisters do you have? FC: I have two sisters and one brother. DB: And their names? FC: Betty Jo (ph), Billie Lou (ph), and Hugh Moody, Jr. DB: Your father was a mortician, did your mother work outside the home? FC: She--yes. She--initially, she worked outside the home. She worked in a bank as a secretary and teller. And then when they opened their own business she went to work with them. DB: And your spouse, Mrs. Gloria. FC: Yeah. GC: I graduated from high school and went to work for the REA--or the Indian Electric, then. And worked a year ' ; til he graduated. So then we got married. (chuckles) DB: Okay. And you got married on what day? FC: Fourteenth day of June 1952. DB: And you have how many children? FC: Four. DB: And what are their names? FC: Deborah Jean, Frank Deuel Chapman, Jr., Benj Clay--Benjamin Chapman, and Matthew Clay Chapman. DB: Alright. Okay, so today you' ; re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency--an internship in Tulsa--Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long--P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would' ; ve probably worked out. But anyway, Max Kemp came to visit me there while I was practicing, and said that he would like for me to come to Bristow and meet the people, because they needed a doctor and their doctor was leaving town--who was Dr. Norfleet. So I went to visit. I went to Dr. Norfleet' ; s home in Bristow. It was on a Wednesday evening. And they had several people there, and they were having a nice party and I thought, Well, this would be a nice place to live, you know? Anyway, he was very gracious and I thought it over and I decided to come. To Bristow. I came to Bristow on--I started practice on June 1, 1964. And I was at the Bristow Hospital on the first day of my journey, and talking to Norfleet, and he was telling me what he had to do. And then he said, Hey, by the way, would you like to deliver a baby? And I said, Why not? DB: (chuckling) FC: So I delivered Rinda Farris that very day of my first day in practice in the Bristow Hospital. I had a office on West Eighth Street--which was the old Sisler Hospital when I first came to town--and I mean it was old. Antiquated. X-ray machine looked like the original Roentgen--who' ; s invented x-ray--put it in. DB: (chuckles) FC: But anyway, made do until we got enough money together so we could get a better one. Which we did, eventually. I started my practice there, then subsequently moved from there to on West Fifth Street where I--we remodeled an old building and had my office. And I retired out of that office. I delivered babies for the first few years in practice, and in the mid-70s I quit delivering babies just to get some rest. (chuckles) DB: (chuckles) FC: Invariably when I' ; d go off to do something and then I' ; d come home and lay down and go to sleep, it would be, Dr., this is the hospital, Mrs. So-and-so' ; s in labor and, you know, you' ; d be completely wore out. So, I did that for two or three or four years, and finally I said, That' ; s enough. I' ; m not doing that any more. So I quit ob. I helped the hospital get some modernization. We got the first intensive care beds in our hospital--with monitoring from St. Francis with them--we got that done. Then we got a new monitored crib for newborns, and then subsequently all of the doctors quit delivering babies. (laughing) So we didn' ; t get much use out of it. DB: When did that start--that they stopped delivering babies? FC: Oh, it was in-- GC: When Matt was born. FC: When Matt? I think Matt was the last one born out there. DB: So, like, in the late sixties? FC: Yeah, yeah. I delivered my own, and on occasions I delivered of some of the other doctors--I mean, Dr. Krug or Dr. Cooper' ; s babies when they needed sections, ' ; cause they couldn' ; t do sections. I--I did ' ; em for ' ; em. DB: So they continued after the sixties. FC: Yeah, they continued after I quit. But they--then they--after they got tired, they (chuckles) also gave it up. DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office-- FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet-- FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had ' ; em spoiled, though. GC: (laughing) FC: He--they' ; d say, Well, wait--I don' ; t feel like comin' ; down today, will you come by the house? you know, and they--that stuff. And I did that for a while! And finally I said, No, I' ; m not doing that anymore. If they call, say, No, he' ; s quit making house calls, you have to come see him. That' ; s all there is to it. DB: So they stayed with you as long as you stayed on Eighth, and then you got new staff when you moved to Fifth? FC: No, I--they took ' ; em with--I took my staff with me over to the Fifth Street. I took--Charmaine went over with me, and Jo Forester went with me. And they stayed. And then Charmaine moved off. And then Jo retired, and then we got--and also June Keiser (ph) was our receptionist, and she stayed there, and then she got sick and then retired. So-- GC: And then Dr. Mitchell' ; s wife? FC: And then I had-- DB: Edna? FC: Yeah. GC: Edna. FC: I had Edna Mitchell for a while in my lab. And then, I think, Thea Runt (ph) worked in our lab for us. And Mrs.--oh, gosh. GC: Charmaine, though I can' ; t remember her last name. FC: Yeah, I was thinking-- GC: That' ; s awful. FC: Myra Jane Trigalet was my office nurse for a year. And then she went to--I hated to lose her--she went to the nursing home ' ; cause they could pay more money than I could. (chuckling) But that--she was a delight. I mean, a real delight. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: I don' ; t--I don' ; t know whether you knew her or not, but-- DB: I don' ; t know that I knew her. I remember Larry' ; s mother speaking fondly of her. FC: She was--I-- She was made of cast iron. She lost a son who was electrocuted. One lost in the war. Lost two in car wrecks in Tulsa--killed one day over there. And she kept on going, you know, I don' ; t know how but she did. And she was just a delightful person. Her and Mrs. Korkames were the building blocks of the Catholic church! (laughing) And every Christmas they had the Christmas sales for cookies and what have you, and everybody shopped with them up there. DB: They still do that. FC: Yeah. We do, we still buy their stuff. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: But that was kind of neat. DB: So, at the--at the hospital, they--it had been built in the-- FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still-- FC: It was-- DB: It needed to be updated-- FC: It needed to be updated-- DB: --and they were behind-- FC: --and they, they needed new things. Like, they needed monitoring systems for cardiac patients in the intensive care unit--which we got. Initially, we got it on a remote basis from St. Francis. We had a direct line from St. Francis to our emergency room and they--the nurses could talk to St. Francis, tell them what our patients had, what we needed to do, and how to do it. And that went on a while, and then finally we got our nurses educated and they could do their own evaluations and treatment. DB: So did you have to have big fundraisers to get these-- FC: I--I--I--- DB: How did you? FC: --went up and down Main Street! (chuckling) Talked to people, said We need this, can you, can you help us out? And we got it done. DB: You said that when you were new in town, you had gone to the bank. FC: Yeah! I went to meet--I went to talk to Tracy Kelly when I come to town, and told him I was a new doctor in town and that I had a thousand dollars in my pocket and I probably was going to need some money to open my office and keep it going for a while, and I wondered if I could get a loan if I needed it. And he said, Write the check. And so--but I never had to do that. DB: Well. That' ; s nice to know it was there if you-- FC: Oh, yeah! DB: --needed to. FC: Yeah. GC: They took us on a hayride, we--(indecipherable) FC: --I had one other story: I--I went--well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and--(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was-- GC: Oh--Bert, Berth-- FC: Bertha! Berta. (ph) GC: Berta! (ph) FC: Berta. (ph) Anyway. Berta (ph) was there. And I went in there and asked about something and she was really indignant, you know? And just really giving me old billy hell, you know, about why she' ; s doing this and that, and I thought, Okay, well I' ; ve got a big surprise. She said, Who are you, boy? And I said, I' ; m the new doctor in town. I' ; m going to write prescriptions in this community and WHOOOO-WELL! (pounding noise) DB: Complete change in her attitude! FC: (loudly) Here we are, welcome to--welcome to Bristow! (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: So I thought that was kind of neat. DB: Yes. FC: And we got along fine after that. No problems. DB: And Max--you didn' ; t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I' ; d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in-- FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and--you know. GC: Well, you delivered their baby. FC: Yeah. I delivered Rin--I delivered Rinda on the first and about the tenth or twelfth I delivered Jennifer. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Kemp. DB: Just right after you came here. FC: Yeah. So I delivered two babies within two weeks after I got here. DB: Oh, wow. (laughing) Say, This is a young man, we' ; re gonna get him while he' ; s-- FC: Yeah, while he' ; s-- DB: --his legs are good. FC: --while he' ; s fresh, you know. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Anyway. That' ; s--that' ; s about the only good stories I' ; ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don' ; t know whether I' ; ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine-- DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) FC: He would--came here in about the early 1900s. And he was one of a kind. He met me at the hospital one day and said, Would you like to go my--see my farm? And I told him, Yeah. I' ; d like to do that. So I got in the car with him and the first thing he did was unwrapped a new package of tobacco, promptly poured it in his coat pocket, dipped his pipe in it and lit it, then we backed up and run into something and went Bang! And he says, Time to go forward now. And then we took off and-- DB: Oh, my goodness. FC: We took--took off and went to his farm. Aand we got back safe and sound, by the way. DB: And he was an older man when this happened? FC: He was in his nineties. Anyway. GC: But he was loved. (chuckles) FC: I--I swore then that I would never ride with him again, you know? But two or three days later he said, Do you do tonsils, doctor? And I said, Yeah, I do tonsils. He said, I got one scheduled in the morning. And I said, Who' ; s gonna give the anesthesia? And he said, Oh, I am. And I thought, Oh, God. Help me, Lord. Why did I volunteer for this? But anyway, I got up. I didn' ; t sleep all night the night before. And I got up and we went in and scrubbed up. Took the patient to surgery. He got an ether mask and a can and started dripping ether. The kid went to sleep. I took his tonsils out. We didn' ; t have any problem whatsoever. And I thank the Lord for every bit of that, I' ; ll tell you for sure. Because I was uptight the whole time. One other incident--he was--he had one of his patients come to see me. And we' ; d had some words before. And she come in very humble and said, Would you take care of me? And I said, Why sure, I' ; m gonna do it. And I said, Well what' ; s the problem? And she said, Well, I' ; ve--you know, I' ; ve been going to Dr. King forever. He' ; s been here forever. And I just dearly love him, but she said, I think he' ; s too old. And I said, Well, why do--why do you think that? She said, Well I went over there yesterday and, she said, I had a sore throat and he looked at me and said, Well, we' ; ll give you a shot. He said, Hike your dress tail up there and I' ; ll give you a shot. She said, I did. And he give me a shot, but he stuck me in the finger instead of in my butt! DB: (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: And she decided that right then and there that she needed to change doctors. DB: (laughing) Yes. Yes. FC: I think that' ; s a--that' ; s a unique story about Dr. King. DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. FC: Oh, yeah, they don' ; t do that now. Number one, ether is a fire hazard. I mean--you can' ; t have any spark or it blows the damn building up. So, that was a hazard. And then--it wasn' ; t real handy. And the people were sick after they got it. And they got a lot better anesthetics now. DB: Yes. FC: They give IV anesthetics and (indecipherable). DB: But the fact that--that' ; s how you did those surgeries. FC: Yeah. Yeah. DB: That' ; s a pretty amazing thing. GC: And-and you know-- DB: To see that we started here-you started here, and now it' ; s progressed-- FC: Yeah. DB: --to where we are now. GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. GC: Yeah. FC: Yeah. The anesthesia has really changed. And--and our hospital' ; s changed. We' ; ve been--went from a storage hospital to a hospital that actually treated people, you know. We just stored ' ; em. I mean, we had a--we developed an intensive care unit with a monitoring system and this monitoring system was initially connected to St. Francis by a phone wire that was permanent. And they could monitor these people in conjunction with us, and we could keep our people at home. Which was nice. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: That took some doing. DB: And you were in practice from-- FC: Sixty-four to-- DB: Nineteen sixty-four-- FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? FC: For a little--about three months. DB: (laughs) GC: (laughs) DB: And then what did you do? FC: Started doing locals--working for other doctors. I worked for-- GC: The Cherokees. FC: What was her name here? What was her name here? GC: Ummm. FC: You know who I' ; m talking about. The lady doctor that was up on Main Street. GC: Oh! Yeah. FC: Well, I can' ; t think of her name. GC: I can' ; t-- FC: But I did it for the people here. Did work for the other doctors when they wanted to go on--on vacation. And then at other places. I' ; ve worked in Nowata and Sallisaw and Stilwell and other places. GC: That was the Cherokees, he was filling in. FC: Yeah, and just filling in. And I did this until I was, oh, eighty-five. And then I--I had a misfortune. I was helping a man fix our tv antennae. Fell backwards in the closet. Bumped my head, and didn' ; t think anything about it. Two weeks later, I went to work and I started to write and I couldn' ; t write. My hand wouldn' ; t go in the right ways. DB: Oh! FC: And I went home and I told my--I told the attending there, I said, I' ; ve--I' ; ve got to leave. There' ; s something wrong. He offered to drive me home, but I said, No, I can drive, don' ; t worry. So I got, went home and got her. And we were gonna go pay our taxes. And I couldn' ; t get the damned car in the parking lot--as big as this damned house. DB: Mmm-mmm. FC: And she said, I' ; m gonna call Matt. That' ; s our oldest son--I mean, our youngest son. And he came over and he drove us to No--to Owasso where my daughter was a physician. And they did a scan on my head and I had a midline shift on my brain from a bleed. And they sent me to Tulsa and the next morning I was in hospital and had holes bored in my head and the blood clots removed and recovered in about six months. And I was back going again. And I--I did a little bit, not much. And I decided it was time to quit. DB: That was pretty much it. GC: Yeah. FC: Time to quit. But-- DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and-- GC: Yeah, he' ; s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time-- FC: Yeah, and try to help them with their finances and things like that. I was there--don' ; t you go to-- DB: Yes. FC: We don' ; t get many people. (chuckles) DB: No. We-- FC: Count of ten! (chuckles) DB: Yes. Kind of thin, now. Were you a Sunday school teacher, Gloria? GC: I helped out some. But I mostly was the choir, you know. I was in--I guess I sang in that choir for about thirty-something years. Dixie was my best friend. DB: Do anything--and Dixie was your best friend. She' ; s a good one. GC: Yeah, we did some--we' ; d sing together. We did some funeral services and-- FC: Yeah. GC: But she was. She--I loved my Dixie. DB: And I know that you have been--I' ; ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn' ; t seem as important as they used to. They--then they were really important when the kids were parti--my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We-- FC: My daughter was a majorette in the--or, a drum major her senior year, and-- GC: And in the band. FC: The kids played this and that. The kids wrassled a little bit, but not much. DB: And you said that your nephew? FC: (Indecipherable) DB: --was the big wrestler? FC: Yeah, he was two-time state champion in 19--oh, 59. No, 19--58, ' ; 59, ' ; 59 and ' ; 60, I think. About then. DB: And his name? FC: Hugh. Chapman. They called him H. GC: Well, he has a Debbie Chapman, too. His mama. You probably know her. DB: Debbie Chapman? GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) DB: Yes. FC: That' ; s his mama. GC: Yeah, her-- FC: That' ; s my nephew. GC: --her mother and daddy owned a funeral home in Hominy. And there were about six of those kids, all together. DB: Debbie owned a funeral home? FC: Her--his, her-- GC: Her mo--her father. FC: Her father did. DB: Her father. GC: Her father. DB: So there' ; s a Chapman now that' ; s a Debbie Chapman--Deborah Chapman. And she' ; s married to H.M.? GC: Yeah. DB: So this is like his--your nephew' ; s son? GC: They' ; re named after each other, aren' ; t they? DB: Oh, okay. FC: Yeah. GC: Isn' ; t that right? DB: Because he was a wrestler, and then he had boys--they had two boys that-- GC: Yeah, two boys. DB: --were big wrestlers. FC: Yeah. And one was-- DB: Jack, and-- FC: --and you had H. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. DB: So--and you--your boys really liked hunting and fishing. FC: Yeah, they did. GC: And music. FC: And-- DB: And music. GC: Lots of music. FC: Yeah. Yeah. Matt was in the band. And Benny was in the band. No--Matt was in the band about a month, and then he quit. But Benny was in the band and he--and Frankie was in the--Frankie played the tuba, and Benny--what the hell did he play? GC: I don' ; t know about Frank-- FC: Well, he played the drums. Benny was the drummer. I always did cry because he had them damned kettle drums, you know, about three or four of ' ; em and you couldn' ; t haul ' ; em in the car. I had to have a truck. GC: (laughing) DB: (laughing) Yes. Same way with a tuba. FC: They had a tuba-- DB: ' ; Cause we had a tuba player at our house. FC: Yeah? Well we happened to have--Frankie played the tuba, too. And he was a little bitty boy! I couldn' ; t understand that. GC: You could just see his little head. (laughing) FC: Couldn' ; t hardly see him for the horn! (laughing) GC: He was our smallest. Our oldest boy was--is the smallest of the boys. FC: Yeah, he' ; s about five-six, I imagine. DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso--or that' ; s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. DB: Oh, she does mission work? FC: No, they just live down there. DB: (laughs) GC: Well, in a way she does, because she--if there' ; s any little kids--which there' ; s a bunch that needs taken care of and they don' ; t have any doctor to help them in this--out. And so, she' ; s just took it on herself to take care of ' ; em and-- FC: Benny-- GC: --no charge, no nothing, you know, just--she loves kid--she loves kids. FC: Benny--Benny lives in Sapulpa, and he is the one that was a policeman and trooper. State trooper. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Matthew lives in--damn. GC: The college town. FC: Man, I' ; m a little--my new senior moments are getting me. DB: (chuckles) FC: Anyway. Where NSU--wherever you know where that-- DB: Tahlequah! GC: Tahlequah! FC: Tahlequah! Okay, he--he' ; s a--he' ; s a financial counselor. Or he has an Edward Jones office there. DB: So they' ; re all--except the one in Louisiana--they' ; re fairly close and you get to see them, and-- FC: Yeah! They' ; re real close. GC: Yeah. And we just lost a grandson. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And it was his boy. They had a-- DB: Was Matt--Matt' ; s son? FC: No, was Frankie' ; s son. DB: Oh. GC: Frankie' ; s son. FC: Frankie' ; s son. He was thirty-five years old. GC: (simultaneously) Thirty-five years old. DB: That' ; s a--that' ; s a tough loss. GC: It--it really is. I just feel so sorry for ' ; em. They had the boy and the girl. The girl was the oldest. And she has two children of her own. And they' ; re in--is it Atlanta? FC: Hmm? GC: Rachel. FC: Yeah, they live in South Carolina. I don' ; t know what the name of the town is. GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was-- FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just-- GC: Well, the nurses at the hospital were just going bananas. They said, He surely--you' ; re not gonna let him name that--if it' ; s a girl--Petula. Said, Well, I don' ; t know! (chuckles) DB: Didn' ; t have to worry about it, because you had a boy. FC: Had a boy! GC: Oh, they were just thrilled to death! (laughs) And Doctor Jones delivered him. But Frank was in there with me. And so I leaned over on his shoulder and they gave me the--whatever it is, the shot. FC: Yeah. GC: And it was the best delivery I' ; d ever had! DB: So they--would that--was that commonplace? To at that time in 1967--that the dad would be with the mom? Or was it because you were-- FC: I think it was because I was a doctor. DB: Okay. GC: (laughing) He kept waiting to see Petula! DB: (laughing) It wasn' ; t a normal thing like now? FC: No. DB: Where dads-- FC: Where the whole damn family' ; s in there! You know? DB: Uh-huh. (agreeing) GC: No-- DB: Well, before COVID. FC: Yeah, COVID. DB: Now it' ; s just so bad. FC: Now they can' ; t gather up-- DB: But--couldn' ; t wait to see your Petula! FC: Couldn' ; t wait to see her! You know, we got it, though. GC: Your Petula? And then, our minister then was Reverend Fontaine. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And so he came out there. And he said, Oh, I' ; m just so glad the Methodists are still (laughing) DB: That the Methodists are what? GC: --still having children! (laughing) I guess-- DB: (laughing) GC: He said it different, but he just kind of giggled. And then the--the other kids, they just couldn' ; t wait to see him. FC: He said, When is Mark and Luke and John coming? GC: Oh, yeah! He said-- FC: I said, I don' ; t think that--(laughing) DB: But you had Benjamin and Matthew, but Frank wasn' ; t-- FC: No, he didn' ; t come until-- DB: Oh, okay. GC: Now, there is a Deuel in the Bible. DB: Really! GC: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: A duel like--a fight? FC: No, like a name! GC: You leave out one ' ; e,' ; so-- DB: You leave out one of the e' ; s. GC: D-U-E-L instead of the D-U- FC: E-L. GC: Yeah. DB: E-U-E FC: Yeah. GC: But, and--and then Deborah. There' ; s a Deborah in the Bible. DB: Yes. GC: But you probably knew that. FC: And a Matthew. GC: And a Matthew. DB: And a Benjamin. FC & ; GC (simultaneously): And a Benjamin. FC: Well, all of our kids are-- DB: You' ; re covered. FC: They' ; re covered. DB: You' ; re covered. FC: They' ; re gonna make it to heaven. You know? Their name counts. (laughing) DB: Well, I just-- FC: I think they' ; ll (indecipherable) James or Williams! DB: I just think it' ; s really neat that--that just the distance you' ; ve come. And the people that helped get you there--that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn' ; t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I' ; m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine-- FC: Alumni. DB: Alumni. And a pic--it' ; s a medal, a picture of the medal will go with this and a picture of the-- GC: Here' ; s another one. This is all the doctors-- DB: Of the doctors that were present at the fifty-year ceremony. GC: This-- DB: So I' ; ll add those. And then the last one I added was a poem that their daughter Deborah wrote for them on the occasion of their fiftieth anniversary. It says, Frank and Gloria Chapman, Life Together. It all started in a small town/Frank lived there his entire life/He was uptown and wasn' ; t believing/He saw the girl he would make his wife/They courted all through junior and high school/They decided let' ; s get married and then/We can set about building our life and begin/Frank pondered what would we do with our lives/Gloria said go to medical school, you' ; re no fool/We can treat animals or people, whatever you choose/As long as we are together, we have nothing to lose/With the love and help from both families/They survived college, medical school, and internships/They traveled near and far, scrimped and saved/Went the distance that was set/So they could make their own way/They started their family with a small girl/Then came three boys/All with their handsome looks, dark hair, and blue eyes/Everyone would always recognize/A Chapman child was truly a blessing/For Frank and Gloria, life kept on being a lesson/Through weddings, babies, life, and death/In love and in loss, we all learned the meaning/ Of true love, family, and commitment/Their love is a lesson for all to receive/You never know what will happen when you truly believe/As long as you are together you can achieve/Anything is possible as long as you believe. June 14, 1952 through eternity. I want to thank you all again for allowing me--twice!--to interview you for the Bristow Historical Society' ; s Oral Histories Project. And if you don' ; t have anything else to share, I' ; m going to sign off. FC: Alright. GC: Well, we' ; ve enjoyed having you! FC: Yeah! DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: We really have and I--like I told Frank, I said I can remember back, I always thought they were the sweetest couple--and then that baby was just a doll. DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: So. (end of recording) audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
2500
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP2-0001
Subject
The topic of the resource
Bristow Histories
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2020-11-10
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
Description
An account of the resource
In this November 2020 interview, Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman discuss how they arrived in Bristow to begin a new medical career, Dr. King, improvements at the local hospital, medical coworkers, loyal friends, church and community involvement and his love of his family.
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/de79ab52d55038f046638db9627a03c6.jpg
527824b3778b8ac7d6c1faab36c5f23b
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ed Cadenead
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0028-01_Cadenhead_Ed.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 August 1979 Ed Cadenhead OHP-0028-01 00:00-25:47 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Ed Cadenead MP3 1:|55(2)|68(7)|80(3)|90(6)|101(4)|113(7)|124(13)|135(6)|146(8)|157(6)|169(6)|180(4)|192(2)|203(1)|215(2)|223(9)|234(5)|245(3)|254(4)|264(13)|275(8)|286(15)|296(10)|305(11)|318(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0028-01 Cadenhead, Ed.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Spot Announcements EC: Okay, spot announcement for the week of August the 5th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa, and I am in Bristow this summer under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee and the National Endowment for the Humanities, collecting information on the history of Bristow. If you have information, photographs, or scrapbooks, please call or come by the chamber of commerce office. Chamber of Commerce ; Ed Cadenhead ; Oklahoma Humanities Committee ; Spot Announcement ; Western Heritage Days 70 Early Radio in Bristow EC: Article on radio. One of the editions to Bristows history, that is mentioned by most people, is the radio station KFRU. Unfortunately, there are some different memories of the fact ; while some believe it was the first radio station in Oklahoma, a few even remember it as the first radio station in the nation. It was not even the first in Bristow ; often forgotten as the fact that Merit Delano (ph) and others had a station on main street in the Joe Matton (ph) building. This station was Bill McGinnis ; Catfish Band ; Cowboy String Band ; Delano Radio and Electric Company ; Jimmy Wilson ; Joe Matton ; KCOU ; KFRU ; KVOO ; Merit Delano ; Roland Hotel 167 Bristow Oil Boom EC: Article on oil boom. Virtually every resident in Bristow is aware of the oil boom that the city once witnessed. Most of the stories are predictable, for anyone who has seen or heard about a boom town. Some details and information, however, are harder to get. Exactly when the boom hit Bristow is hard to say, since the activity in Cushing and Slick affected Bristow. But the years in 1915-1923 would probably cover the main period. 1915-1923 ; Brick Kirshner ; Chamber of Commerce ; Lucy West ; Oil Boom ; Wallis Winshield 350 Bristow Schools Beginning EC: Article on Bristow’s Schools. One continuing story in Bristow’s history is the pride and interest shown in the local schools. The story apparently started in 1898, when Mrs. Lucy West was contacted, and $400 was raised to build a school ; yet, the Tulsa World reported the 1898 that school started in Bristow with J. H. A. Dumas (ph), his wife, and Mrs. C. B. Colburn (ph), his teachers. There’s hope that some accurate information about the connection between Dumas and West at this early date can be found. Aiyana Green ; Aiyana Greenhopper ; Alice Rue Williams ; Ashley Ohlerly ; Bristow Schools ; C. B. Colburn ; Charles Hutton ; Ethan Mills ; Ford Hardware ; Gordon Castleberry ; Gray Powers ; J. H. A. Dumas ; Jonathan West ; Lahore Motel ; Lloyd P. Loseur ; Lucy West ; Maude Vann ; Mrs. Stickler ; Orable Heinekins ; P. A. Spice ; Ralph Corey ; Russel Banks ; Stella Hanktons ; Tulsa World ; W. W. Green ; Waldo Stickle 523 County Seat Location Fight EC: Article on county seat fight. Well, one of the earliest and perhaps most important political contests in which Bristow was involved related to the location of the county seat. Beginning before statehood and then issued for many years, Sapulpa and Bristow contended for the advantage of being the county seat. Bristow lost the first fight in 1902, and Sapulpa was made a court town of the western judicial district of Indian territory, and Bristow was able to get only an occasional commissioners court. Bristow ; C. B. Rockwood ; county seat ; County seat fight ; George McMillan ; Guthrie ; Indian Appropriation Act of 1906 ; J. A. Boyed ; J. H. M. Cobb ; Keifer ; L. B. Jackson ; Lawrence Davis ; Momen Cruet ; Sapulpa ; Shafer county ; T. L. Ingram ; Tulsa ; W. W. Banks ; William A. Murray 768 Chief Crazy Snake Rebellion EC: Article on Crazy Snake. One of the most often mentioned with little remembered events in early Bristow history is the Crazy Snake Rebellion. As late as 1901, there were still some creek Indians who disliked the events of civilization, and refused to accept the allotments of land by the Daws commission. Chief Crazy Snake ; Crazy Snake ; Crazy Snake Rebellion ; Creek ; Creek Indians ; Daws Commission ; General Harjo ; Jesse Allen ; Thomas Tiger ; Yuchi Indian 899 Bristow's General History EC: General Article on Bristow’s History. All too often, students at any level of history think of the subject matter as only a collection of names and dates. That’s often true, I’ve discovered, with people in Bristow, who say they really do not remember much that is important. While it is true that names and dates are a necessary part of history, stories of unimportant incidents provide the flesh for the otherwise bare bones. Bristow History ; Leo Bennett 1066 Founding of Bristow EC: Article on earliest Bristow. You might think the easiest thing about writing a history of Bristow would be finding out when and by who is was founded, this is just not so. One source reports that Bristow started as a trading post in 1897, with actual buildings begun in 1898. An article in the chronicles of Oklahoman refers to the founding of Bristow in April 25, 1898, while the Daily Oklahoman says Bristow was founded on January 16,1899. According to the Tulsa World, it was officially a town in 1902. Bristow Chamber of Commerce ; Charles L. Wood ; Charles O. Crane ; J. C. W. Bland ; John Egan ; Tulsa World ; Two Bob Saloon 1230 Church History EC: Bristow Church History. Though many residents in Bristow have shown pride in their churches, there is a shortage of accurate information about them. One type of written history the Catholic church has been acquired, along with short written histories of several of the other churches. Apparently, the Methodists were the first to hold services in Bristow, at the home of A. R. Bokle (ph). A. R. Bokle ; B. T. Benskid ; Baptists ; Bristow Church History ; Canterbury ; Catholic Church ; Christian Science Society ; Church of Christ ; F. A. Roberts ; Masonic Temple ; Methodists ; Presbyterian ; Reverend Gregory ; S. H. Johnson ; S. L. Grigsby 1460 Conclusion and Repeat Spot Announcement EC: Repeat of a spot announcement to be used during the week of August 5th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa. I am in Bristow this summer under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee and the National Endowment for the Humanities, collecting information on the history of Bristow. Ed Cadenhead ; Oklahoma Humanities Committee ; Spot announcement ; Western Heritage Days The following programs were composed by Dr. Ed Cadenhead, a History professor at Tulsa University. He discusses many different aspects of Bristow, including the oil boom, Chief Crazy Snake Rebellion, and the founding of Bristow. Interviewer: Dr. Ed Cadenhead Interviewee: Other Persons: Date of Interview: August 1979 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0028-01 Side A at 00:00 to 25:47 Abstract: The following programs were composed by Dr. Ed Cadenhead, a History professor at Tulsa University. He discusses many different aspects of Bristow, including the oil boom, Chief Crazy Snake Rebellion, and the founding of Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. EC: Okay, spot announcement for the week of August the 5th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa, and I am in Bristow this summer under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee and the National Endowment for the Humanities, collecting information on the history of Bristow. If you have information, photographs, or scrapbooks, please call or come by the chamber of commerce office. EC: Spot announcement for the week of August the 12th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa. On Saturday, August 18th, at 12:45 at the national guard armory, I will be presenting a slide talk on the history of Bristow, prepared under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee, from the national endowment for the humanities. You are all invited, the talk will be presented at 12 noon by potluck lunch in as part of the Western Heritage Days. Hope to see you there. EC: Article on radio. One of the editions to Bristows history, that is mentioned by most people, is the radio station KFRU. Unfortunately, there are some different memories of the fact ; while some believe it was the first radio station in Oklahoma, a few even remember it as the first radio station in the nation. It was not even the first in Bristow ; often forgotten as the fact that Merit Delano (ph) and others had a station on main street in the Joe Matton (ph) building. This station was KFJK, one of the Watts stations run by Delano Radio and Electric company. It may even have had te call letters KCOU at one time. This station, built in 1923, would not last long before the most remembered station was opened in the Roland Hotel. This later station was much stronger and became widely known. Newspapers carried stories about its programs, talent was recruited from Bristow and surrounding high schools, as well as colleges. Well known of groups of entertained were Jimmy Wilson (ph) and his Catfish Band, and Bill McGinnis (ph) Cowboy Strong Band. At some point, equipment from KFRU was sold to a college in Columbia, Missouri. The later station as subsequently sold to interests in Tulsa. The differing memories as to whether the call letters were changed to KVOO before or after the move to Tulsa ; in any event, radio played an early and important part in the life of Bristow. EC: Article on oil boom. Virtually every resident in Bristow is aware of the oil boom that the city once witnessed. Most of the stories are predictable, for anyone who has seen or heard about a boom town. Some details and information, however, are harder to get. Exactly when the boom hit Bristow is hard to say, since the activity in Cushing and Slick affected Bristow. But the years in 1915-1923 would probably cover the main period. The influx of people is the strongest memory, with figured ranging from 13,000 to 25,000 population being given ; the most likely population figure without census to measure was 15,000. Finding a place for so many to live was impossible. Every available room was rented, some in shifts, and local residents would have to find workers sleeping on their porches, in their garages, or on their yard swings. Prices of property jumped ; Mrs. Lucy West had two lots, with one room shacks that had costed $100 each to build, that were rented for $125 per month. One enterprising business woman paid $2,500 just for the right to lease the upstairs of a building on main street. The movement of pipe and other material was another notable aspect of Bristow' ; s boom. Pipe was unloaded at the depot, and numerous teams of mules from several liberty stables transported it. One owner of a team, Wallis Winshield (ph), had his mules so well-trained that they could raise and lower pipes on voice command to the amusement of bystanders. Alvin [Indecipherable] remembers the large amounts of lumber that the four or five lumber yards in the area sold for the construction of oil rig bases. Brick Cershner (ph) remembers the appearance of those rigs once in place at Slick. The well was in, the wooden rigs were black, otherwise they were clean. Others have vivid memories of some of the problems created by them boom. Some young ladies were not allowed to, or were afraid to be in town after dark. Robberies did occur and killings were not unusual ; gambling in some local establishments, as well as under automobile headlights out in the country were not unusual. An increase in the number of places that sold whiskey, or otherwise provided entertainment for the young men without families was predictable. Bristow, at one point, established a curfew for all under a certain age, and had to employ six or seven peace officers to keep up with the expanding business. Interestingly, with all the photographs that have turned up showing the cotton boom days in Bristow, none have yet appeared to show the oil boom. If you have such items, please drop them by the chamber of commerce office so that copies can be made. EC: Article on Bristow' ; s Schools. One continuing story in Bristow' ; s history is the pride and interest shown in the local schools. The story apparently started in 1898, when Mrs. Lucy West was contacted, and $400 was raised to build a school ; yet, the Tulsa World reported the 1898 that school started in Bristow with J. H. A. Dumas (ph), his wife, and Mrs. C. B. Colburn (ph), his teachers. There' ; s hope that some accurate information about the connection between Dumas and West at this early date can be found. Either before or after the building from Mrs. West was erected, classes were held in what was also used as a dining room for the Lahore Motel (ph). The one room frame building on east sixth street, which the first school building was built by Jonathan West, Lucy' ; s husband. The brick building was built in 1903, and Bristow had five teachers by this time. Gordon Castleberry (ph) taught the students above the fourth grade in the brick building. P. A. Spice (ph) and Stella Hanktons (ph) had the third and fourth grades in the Methodist church, and Lucy West and Maude Vann (ph) taught the first and second grades in the Christian church. In 1906, Bristow' ; s first high school graduation took place ; Graduates were Alice Rue Williams (ph), Ralph Corey (ph), Aiyana Greenhopper (ph), and Waldo Stickle (ph). In 1904, a second school building was erected and in 1909 a third. It was this last building that burned in 1920, a well-remembered fire for many schools. One of the schools located where Ford Hardware now stands is remembered as only being painted to look like bricks. Growth was rapid, one teacher recalls, having sixty students in a room ; another had forty in the morning and a different forty in the afternoon. Certainly by 1920, Bristow already had shown an interest in providing education opportunities for its youth, and more was yet to come. The names associated with the Bristow schools are truly too numerous to list them all ; some that have been mentioned are Mrs. Sickler (ph), W. W. Green (ph), Aiyana Green (ph), Gray Powers (ph), Mrs. Ethan Mills (ph), Lloyd P. Loseur (ph), Mrs. Orable Henkins (ph), Mrs. Russel Banks (ph), Mrs. Ashly Ohlerly (ph), Charles Hutton (ph), to name only some of the earlier ones. EC: Article on county seat fight. Well, one of the earliest and perhaps most important political contests in which Bristow was involved related to the location of the county seat. Beginning before statehood and then issued for many years, Sapulpa and Bristow contended for the advantage of being the county seat. Bristow lost the first fight in 1902, and Sapulpa was made a court town of the western judicial district of Indian territory, and Bristow was able to get only an occasional commissioners court. The second step in the contest favoring Sapulpa came with the passage of the Indian Appropriation Act in 1906 that named Tulsa and Sapulpa as court towns. The enabling act of the same year provided for the creation of districts to allow delegates to a constitutional convention. Sapulap democrats supported T. L. Ingram (ph) as their candidate to delegate, while Bristow supported W. W. Banks (ph). The [Indecipherable] was held in Bristow' ; s opera house, resulting in the Sapulpa democrats bolting and supporting the labor convention candidate, the same T. L. Ingram. Before the bolt occurred, Lawrence Davis (ph), a Bristow attorney, made a speech asking for fair procedures. For his efforts, he was later burned in [Indecipherable] and accused of double crossing Bristow. Others who ventured to support Sapulpa were led to the city limits and told not to reenter Bristow. One local citizen remembers seeing such an individual literally being run out of town on horseback. When the democrats divided, J. H. M. Cobb, the republican candidate from Sapulpa was elected at the polls in November. Even so, Bristow still expected the county seat, and the local newspaper reported this fact in December of 1906. At the convention in Guthrie, however, Cobb supported governor William A. Murrays (ph) rush to get an entire map [Indecipherable], even though it showed Bristow as the county seat. Subsequently, Murray apparently made the change to Sapulpa as a member of the County Boundary Committee. There' ; s still one more vote took place at the constitutional convention, Bristow again lost to Sapulpa. At the same time, the designation of creek county was [Indecipherable] instead of [Indecipherable]. As it originally was called at the Momen Cruet (ph), an Oklahoma City Attorney. After ratification of the constitution, Bristow, by petition, sought an election to determine the county seat. It was called for August the 12th, 1908 ; arguing vote for the center C. B. Rockwood (ph) and George McMillan (ph) led the Bristow campaign. With J. A. Boyed (ph) and L. B. Jackson (ph) as Sapulpa leading spokesmen. A rather quiet election day showed Sapulpa as the winner, bur Bristow alleged gross irregularities in voting that Sapulpa and Kiefer and filed [Indecipherable] in the supreme court. Allegations of intimidation, women dressing as men to vote, and the bind if votes with liquor were also included. Though Bristow maintained its hope through months of litigation, in June 1912, the courts simply ordered a new election, and again Sapulpa was victorious, and again Bristow filed suit alleging voting irregularities. On August the 1st, 1913, the Sapulpa Light published news of their final victory, not one word about the court' ; s decision was printed in the Bristow records. Efforts to form a new county called Oil County failed as did a petition to be part of Shafer county, which Cushing residents tried to create. Seven years of election and court battles have ended, but the oil well lasted for a short time and became part of the legends involved in Bristow. EC: Article on Crazy Snake. One of the most often mentioned with little remembered events in early Bristow history is the Crazy Snake Rebellion. As late as 1901, there were still some creek Indians who disliked the events of civilization, and refused to accept the allotments of land by the Daws commission. One group of these [Indecipherable] banded together under the leadership of General Harjo, otherwise known as Chief Crazy Snake. One day in 1901, Thomas Tiger (ph), dressed in war paint, rode into town, posted notices and delivered personal letters to several residents, saying the snakes were on the war path and intended to destroy Bristow unless everyone left. The population received the news with will alarm ; women and children were hidden in churches and in cellars while some 200 men armed themselves and guarded the town. The committee of townspeople asked Jesse Allen (ph) to aid them. Allen was a quarter blood Yuchi Indian who had served as deputy U. S. Marshall, and had married into a creek family. Allen, along with a companion, met Crazy Snake outside town, said a few words to him in Creek and Crazy Snake turned back. Allen' ; s children states that their father had never revealed what he had said to Crazy Snake. Whether it was because of this exchange or because of other pressures, or perhaps because no real attack was intended, peace was restored. The Snakes were arbitrarily assigned lands by the government, some of it not too desirable, but ironically later proven to be oil producing. Whatever the true seriousness of the situation, the consternation in Bristow was honest. One resident, Joe Eaves (ph), a blacksmith, made himself a bulletproof vest, which was later used as a weight to close his gate, and as a reminder of the Crazy Snake Rebellion. EC: General Article on Bristow' ; s History. All too often, students at any level of history think of the subject matter as only a collection of names and dates. That' ; s often true, I' ; ve discovered, with people in Bristow, who say they really do not remember much that is important. While it is true that names and dates are a necessary part of history, stories of unimportant incidents provide the flesh for the otherwise bare bones. It is interesting to read, for instance, that in 1898, a traveling cord was set up by U. S. Marshall Leo Bennett (ph) to travel along the railroad in Indian Territory. That cord in Bristow, only a shack and tent town at the time, caused what was called a general exodus of gamblers, bootleggers, and different riffraff reside on the north of shack town, as it approached from the south. Memories of watching boys blowing glass at the glass factory, [Indecipherable] with two shows a day, professional wrestling, or bartering a gallon of whiskey for a new tire, a fourth of July picnic at Coles park, a circus parade, these are all useful. Certainly longtime residents want to keep alive the knowledge of their state championship football team, or a prize winning band, or any other such victory. While some might disapprove, a story about a local resident dispensing his Christmas cheer from a bag under the backseat of his car, or an accountable local boarding house owner parading their new tenants around main street, adds an extra ingredient to history. A surprised witness to a bank robbery asked me if he can take his hands down, and being told that no one told him to put them up in the first place, adds a humorous touch to an otherwise serious event. An accountable red flag being attached to a water tower so the traveling oilmen could find their way home when the roads were nonexistent. Tell something about the oil business only the participants remember. Clearly then, many people hearing this may have something to add to the collection of information about Bristow. Please contact the chamber of commerce office and dig out those old photographs for reproduction and for preservation. EC: Article on earliest Bristow. You might think the easiest thing about writing a history of Bristow would be finding out when and by who is was founded, this is just not so. One source reports that Bristow started as a trading post in 1897, with actual buildings begun in 1898. An article in the chronicles of Oklahoman refers to the founding of Bristow in April 25, 1898, while the Daily Oklahoman says Bristow was founded on January 16,1899. According to the Tulsa World, it was officially a town in 1902. There is general agreement that the town was founded by Charles O. Crane (ph), who was the first postmaster and named the town. But the Tulsa World credits J. C. W. Bland (ph) and John Egan (ph) as being the founders. It also seems clear that Charles L. Wood (ph) did survey the town site in 1901. The site was approved by the interior department in December of 1902. Obviously there is still room for debate over who founded Bristow and when ; I received excellent cooperation from people that I have contacted and have a committee that is still taking some interviews, but there have not been as many photographs, or scrapbooks, or diaries turn up as I would like. People should realize that we are trying to collect all these materials and place them in the Bristow Library for safe keeping. Also, if the owners want to hold on to such items, we will just copy them. Anyone who has anything of possible interest is urged to contact me at the Bristow Chamber of Commerce office. One thing I have had plenty of are names of people who ought to be interviewed ; what I need most are photographs. A few ideas of subjects that are still of interest would be the location and history of a place, such as the Two Bob Saloon, or particularly information about the oil period. Strangely enough, no photographs of the oil industry have turned up in spite of all the vivid memories that people have. There are a lot of other things about Bristow that are going to be forgotten or lost, unless a real community effort is made to collect, preserve, and house the information while people still remember it. The involvement of a lot of people is really needed. EC: Bristow Church History. Though many residents in Bristow have shown pride in their churches, there is a shortage of accurate information about them. One type of written history the Catholic church has been acquired, along with short written histories of several of the other churches. Apparently, the Methodists were the first to hold services in Bristow, at the home of A. R. Bokle (ph). The subsequently, in 1900, met in a frame building located in seventh in chestnut. In 1905, under the leadership of S. H. Johnson (ph) and his son, construction was begun on a new building on tenth and main ; for some reason, work was moved to seventh and chestnut. At this point, there is some confusion ; the cornerstone for a new church was laid in 1900, but apparently the frame building was used until 1917 and sold to the Church of Christ and moved to sixth and walnut. The disciples held their first service in 1899, with F. A. Roberts (ph) as minister. They seemed to have completed their building before the Methodist church was completed ; their present building was erected in 1920. The Baptists organized a church in January of 1902, meeting for a time in a school building. By 1903, a white framed church building was erected, with parsonage added in 1909. In 1920, plans were made to build at sixth and chestnut, with a cornerstone of the new building laid in November 1921. The [Indecipherable] erected a building in 1905in seventh and elm after meeting for a time in the Methodist church under the rectorship of B. T. Benskid (ph). The Presbyterians organized at the [Indecipherable] in1917, and their first pastor was installed S. L. Grigsby (ph) the following year ; they began a building at sixth and elm in 1921. Members of the Church of God began their meeting in Bristow in the home of Reverend Gregory (ph), and later rented a hall in main street ; they purchased lots on Walnut between third and fourth in 1915 to begin their church. A Christian Science society was organized here in 1928, meeting in homes and rented rooms until they finally rented the [Indecipherable] church in 1933, the building they bought in 1946. The first Catholic mass in Bristow was probably said in the Canterbury home in 1909, but one source suggests that the first service held was in 1902. Later, Catholics met at various places, including the masonic temple and the [Indecipherable] church before building at sixth and elm around 1919 ; the building was moved to eighth and elm at about 1924. Until the newspaper files are worked, or until information is compiled by the various churches themselves, a lot of important information about the religious life in Bristow will be lost. It' ; s also surprising that photographs of old church buildings have not surfaced. Each church in Bristow would be glad at some future date if written history was compiled now while there' ; s still members around who can provide information. EC: Repeat of a spot announcement to be used during the week of August 5th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa. I am in Bristow this summer under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee and the National Endowment for the Humanities, collecting information on the history of Bristow. If you have information, photographs, or scrapbooks, please call or come by the chamber of commerce office. Anything you wish returned will be, otherwise material collected will be preserved in the Bristow Library. EC: Repeat of a spot announcement for use the week of August 12th ; This is Ed Cadenhead, history professor at the University of Tulsa. On Saturday, August 18th, at 12:45 at the national guard armory, I will be presenting a slide talk on the history of Bristow, prepared under a grant from the Oklahoma Humanities Committee and the national endowment for the humanities. You are all invited, the talk will be presented at 12 noon by a potluck lunch as part of Western Heritage Days. Hope to see you there. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0028-01_Cadenhead_Ed.xml OHP-0028-01_Cadenhead_Ed.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
2200
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ed Cadenhead
Description
An account of the resource
The following programs were composed by Dr. Ed Cadenhead, a History professor at Tulsa University. He discusses many different aspects of Bristow, including the oil boom, Chief Crazy Snake Rebellion, and the founding of Bristow.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0028-01
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1979-08
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/5196dad3a6b521d0ee24de05b0f2a21a.jpg
049269715742192b51bfa499128d3084
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family Histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Edgar Spencer
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-13_Edgar_Spencer.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Unknown Date OHP-2020-13 Edgar Spencer OHP-2020-13 0:00-28:37 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Edgar Spencer Georgia Smith MP3 1:|50(4)|90(2)|121(4)|154(5)|195(2)|242(2)|275(5)|309(12)|347(4)|387(3)|424(5)|460(2)|500(2)|527(3)|574(10)|609(2)|637(6)|669(3)|704(11)|739(6)|780(4)|806(5)|842(5)|869(2)|887(13)|921(3)|960(8)|982(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/Edgar Spencer.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society—stop. Now that we have the cell phones turned off, we’ll try it again. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and I am here with Edgar Spencer of Bristow. We’re at the depot, he’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. Let me check my volume on this first, make sure we’ve got it turned up good. Yeah I think so, I think we’re good, yeah we’re good. Okay, what was your name at birth? ES: Edgar McDonald Spencer GS: And where were you born? ES: Slick, Oklahoma GS: Were you born in a home or a hospital? ES: Home GS: In a home? Did the doctor come there or was it a midwife? ES: I’m sure it was Dr. King Billy Chadmoore ; Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow, Oklahoma ; Dr. King ; Edgar McDonald Spencer ; Edgar Spencer ; Fanny and Lou Robinson ; Fanny Robinson ; Georgia Smith ; Hi-Way Cafe ; Johnny Spencer ; Laurie Puckett ; Lenon Spencer ; Liberty Glass ; Lory Puckett ; Lou Robinson ; Michael Spencer ; Nancy Thurman ; Slick, Oklahoma https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/168592424/nancy-jane-spencer Nancy Thurman 185 Growing Up GS: Okay thank you. Okay tell me what your life was like at home when you were growing up when you were small. ES: [Indecipherable] home, had three brothers, we got along well, did well. GS: No fights? ES: Oh sure GS: What kind of house did you grow up in? Was it a wood frame, a brick, what? ES: Wood frame GS: Wood frame, and was it in town or out in the country? ES: In Bristow GS: In Bristow, okay. Now you said you were born in Slick, when did they move to Bristow? ES: Well I don’t know Franklin Spencer ; Hi-Way Cafe ; Liberty Glass ; M& ; P Grocery ; Pulms 502 School GS: Okay, where did you first attend school? ES: Bristow, Washington school GS: At Washington Elementary? Who was your teacher? ES: What was her name? Mrs. Frump (ph) was one of them, that’s about the only one I miss [Indecipherable] GS: Okay, I had Mrs. Frump in second grade ES: Did you? GS: Mhm ES: Mrs. Spear (ph) GS: Yes, uh-huh ES: Mr. Zero (ph) Bristow Quarterback Club ; Mr. Zero ; Mrs. Frump ; Mrs. Spear ; Washington Elementary 595 Church GS: Okay, did your family go to church when you were a child? ES: Yes GS: Which church did they attend? ES: Bristow Gospel Tabernacle GS: Okay, is the same building now standing? ES: Mhm GS: Describe what your Sunday services were like ES: Typical prayer station, then a sermon. And [Indecipherable] GS: Did they have Sunday school— ES: Yes GS: --before, mhm. Do you remember any of the songs they sang? ES: Just the old hymns Bristow Gospel Tabernacle 698 Medical Care GS: What was medical care like when you were a child? You mentioned Dr. King delivered you, can you remember going to the doctor when you were small? ES: Just for immunizations GS: Yeah, yeah. Did you have a family doctor? ES: Yes GS: Dr. King? ES: Dr. King GS: Did he make house calls? ES: Yes, he did Dr. King 754 Businesses and Events GS: Okay we’re gonna turn around to Bristow now. What are your recollections of Bristow from when you were a kid? ES: My recollections? GS: Uh-huh ES: It was a small town GS: Anything in particular you remember like the buildings or the people or the business? ES: Oh the parks and the people and the church, schools. GS: Any building in particular stand out to you ES: No Drive In ; Globe Store ; Hi-Way Cafe ; M& ; P Grocery ; Prince ; Shamus Dry Goods ; Walmer ; Woolworth 917 Jobs GS: Okay. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? You had no—yeah. Nothing, huh? Okay what was your first job? ES: Working in service station GS: Which one was it? ES: Henshaw GS: Henshaws? Where was that located? ES: It’s about fourth and main GS: Fourth and main, okay. Where— ES: Down where the old ice plant used to be, you remember that thing? GS: Oh, okay, yeah. ES: [Indecipherable] it was right in there. city councilman ; Department of Public Safety ; Henshaws ; Korea ; military ; Missouri ; Oklahoma ; Policeman ; Service Station ; Texas 1081 Marriage GS: Okay, when and where did you meet Nancy? ES: When did I meet? GS: Uh-huh, when and where? ES: Well I don’t know GS: You just always knew her maybe? ES: Yeah just probably, we got together. GS: What were your first impressions of Nancy? What made you fall in love with Nancy? ES: Personality Liberty Glass ; Nancy Spencer ; Nancy Thurman https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/168592424/nancy-jane-spencer Nancy Thurman Spencer 1150 Transportation and Travelers GS: Did you ever travel to Tulsa or Oklahoma City when you were younger in your early life? ES: A little GS: Did you ever take the train from the depot here? ES: No GS: No, do you have any memories of the depot? ES: I can remember the trains ; it was a [Indecipherable] GS: Does your family always have a car, or was there a first car that made you this— ES: No we always had a car GS: Yeah ES: My dad always had a car Candy Creations ; Hamburger King ; Harby House ; Hi-Way Cafe ; J& ; J Cafe ; Oklahoma City ; route 66 ; Thurman Motel ; Tulsa 1270 Segregation GS: Okay. Okay, we’re gonna switch gears a little bit here and we’re gonna go to racism. Was Bristow a segregated town when you were growing up? ES: Early part, yes. I think I was probably a junior in High School when the first black went to High School in Bristow GS: Okay, do you remember the names of any of the black families in town during your childhood? ES: Not really GS: Were you allowed to socialize with the black kids? ES: Oh yeah, yeah. GS: And so you were a junior when segregation ended and they integrated into the schools. Did you ever swim at the Bristow City pool? ES: Yes GS: Were black children admitted then? ES: I don’t believe so Bristow City Pool ; Cloud ; Jerry Riley ; Riley ; Segregation https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112945715/jerry-garland-riley Jerry Riley 1416 Oil Boom GS: Okay, was your family involved in any of the early oil well boom that was in Bristow? ES: No GS: Do you have any memories of the boom? The oil boom here? ES: Just vaguely GS: What kind of memories? ES: All the people coming in, fill their [Indecipherable] go out and work on the rigs, stuff like that. GS: Okay ES: Bristow [Indecipherable] the oil boom back then 1472 Amphitheater and the City Lake GS: Okay, let’s move on to the 40’s. You were young, do you remember any of the things that went on in the city lake with the WPA doing the work projects out there, Eleanor Roosevelt coming, you have any memories? ES: [Indecipherable] GS: Of any of that? Do you remember as a kid people using the amphitheater much? ES: Mhm GS: What did they use it for? ES: Concerts, stuff like that. Revivals GS: Did they have high school graduations there? ES: I can’t remember, I don’t believe they did, but [Indecipherable] Eleanor Roosevelt 1543 Politics GS: Was your family politically involved? ES: No GS: Okay, did you ever have any family members run for office? ES: No, just me GS: Just you, that’s right just you! And how long were you city councilman Edgar? ES: Six years I believe GS: Okay, what years was that, do you remember? ES: No not really GS: Okay, it was fairly recent though, wasn’t it? ES: Yeah city councilman 1585 Closing Thoughts GS: Okay, what would you consider to be the biggest most—well let me rephrase, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? ES: Most important invention? Probably medical GS: All the medical discoveries that they’ve made? ES: All the medical, yeah. GS: And how is the world different now than when you were a child? ES: It’s altogether different, it’s— GS: It’s not the same at all, is it Edgar? ES: Not the same, people are not involved with helping each other, helping the city, [Indecipherable] COVID ; OSU In this 2020 interview, Edgar Spencer shares his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses the many businesses and segregation. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Edgar Spencer Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-13 at 00:00 to 28:37 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society--stop. Now that we have the cell phones turned off, we' ; ll try it again. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and I am here with Edgar Spencer of Bristow. We' ; re at the depot, he' ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. Let me check my volume on this first, make sure we' ; ve got it turned up good. Yeah I think so, I think we' ; re good, yeah we' ; re good. Okay, what was your name at birth? ES: Edgar McDonald Spencer GS: And where were you born? ES: Slick, Oklahoma GS: Were you born in a home or a hospital? ES: Home GS: In a home? Did the doctor come there or was it a midwife? ES: I' ; m sure it was Dr. King GS: Doctor King? What was your date of birth? ES: 11/[Indecipherable]/1939 GS: And what were your parents' ; names? We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. ES: Fanny and Lou Robinson (ph) GS: And do you know about when they were married? ES: No idea GS: Have no idea, that' ; s okay. Do you know where they were married? ES: I would say Bristow, Oklahoma GS: Okay, and did they grow up here in Bristow? ES: Slick GS: In Slick, okay. How many children did your parents have? ES: Four GS: Four children? Can you tell me your siblings names? ES: Billy Chadmoore (ph), Johnny Spencer (ph), and Lenon Spencer (ph) GS: Okay, what did your father do for a living? ES: He worked at Liberty Glass in Sapulpa GS: Okay, and Edgar you might speak up just a little bit, with that mask it' ; s gonna make it a little hard to understand. What did your mother do? ES: She worked at the Hi-Way Café in Bristow GS: Oh, I ate there many a time! What is your spouse--what was your spouse' ; s name? ES: Nancy Thurman GS: Nancy Thurman, and when did you get married to Nancy? ES: 1962 GS: 1962, how many children did you have? ES: Two GS: Two? And what are their names? ES: Laurie Puckett (ph) and Michael Spencer (ph) GS: Okay, could you say those one more time? ES: Laurie Puckett (ph), P. U. C. K. E. T. T., and Michael Spencer (ph) GS: Okay thank you. Okay tell me what your life was like at home when you were growing up when you were small. ES: [Indecipherable] home, had three brothers, we got along well, did well. GS: No fights? ES: Oh sure GS: What kind of house did you grow up in? Was it a wood frame, a brick, what? ES: Wood frame GS: Wood frame, and was it in town or out in the country? ES: In Bristow GS: In Bristow, okay. Now you said you were born in Slick, when did they move to Bristow? ES: Well I don' ; t know GS: Don' ; t know, you were pretty small? ES: Yeah, I' ; m sure I was GS: Did the kids have to share a bed? ES: Yes GS: What were your favorite toys when you were a little child? ES: Probably trucks GS: What kind of role did your mother play in the house? ES: Typical housewife and she worked GS: She worked outside the home? ES: Yeah, Hi-Way Café GS: At the Hi-Way Café, that' ; s right you said. And was she a waitress or a cook? ES: Cook GS: She was a cook, that was some good food. How was your laundry done at home? ES: Washing machine, washtub GS: Was it one of the wringer kind or electric? ES: Wringer tub GS: I mean electric wringer. ES: Yeah GS: What kind of stove did you have? ES: What kind of what? GS: Stove, cooking stove. ES: Typical gas stove GS: Okay, and what were your meals like? Were they like the Hi-Way café or were they different? ES: They were good GS: They were good? Maybe meat and potatoes or-- ES: Oh yeah GS: Yeah ES: [Indecipherable] bacon, sausage GS: Oh yum, are there any family recipes from your childhood that you got to keep? ES: Meatloaf maybe GS: Meatloaf? She made good meatloaf? ES: Mhm GS: I probably should get that recipe from you, I' ; m not too good with meatloaf. What did you shop for groceries? ES: Where did? GS: Where did you shop, yes ES: M& ; P Grocery GS: And that was on seventh street, or? ES: I believe that' ; s correct, yeah. GS: Okay, and did you have daily chores you had to do? ES: Oh yeah GS: What were they? ES: Mow the lawn, work in the garden, help clean the house GS: You had a garden here in town? Vegetable garden? ES: Mhm GS: Did your mom can some of the produce from it? ES: Yeah GS: So they probably didn' ; t--weren' ; t able to own livestock though here in town, right? ES: No GS: Yeah, what kind of clothes did you wear? ES: Typical jeans GS: Mostly jeans ES: Mostly jeans, yeah GS: Button down the front shirts? ES: Yeah GS: And I' ; m sure I know the answer to this but it' ; s on here so I' ; m gonna ask it. Did you have shoes year round? ES: Did I have what? GS: Shoes year round ES: Oh, yeah GS: Yeah, I think most people from your generation on had shoes year round ES: [Indecipherable] we had shoes GS: Yeah, maybe my mommas, maybe not, but. Did you have many friends in the neighborhood that you played with or was it just with your brothers? ES: No, there was kids in the neighborhood GS: Anyone in particular that you remember fondly? ES: Well there was some Pulms, P. U. L. M. S. and a couple of kids we played with all the time GS: Did you have any childhood games that you played? ES: Typical games, hide and seek. GS: Kick the can? ES: Yeah GS: Where did your father work? ES: Liberty Glass in Sapulpa GS: Okay I didn' ; t know that, and what was his role in the house? Just as provider? ES: Yes GS: Do you remember the first time you saw a television? ES: No GS: Yeah, do you remember purchasing your first T.V.? ES: Not really GS: Okay, now we' ; re gonna go on to your grandparents if you can remember anything about them. Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives, what it was like for them? ES: Not really GS: Not really. Do you remember great grandparents at all? ES: No GS: Okay, who was the oldest person in your family that you can remember from when you were a child? ES: My grandfather GS: Your grandfather, and what was his name? ES: Franklin Spencer GS: Franklin Spencer? ES: Mhm GS: Do you remember anything particular about him? ES: No, not really. Typical grandfather GS: Okay, where did you first attend school? ES: Bristow, Washington school GS: At Washington Elementary? Who was your teacher? ES: What was her name? Mrs. Frump (ph) was one of them, that' ; s about the only one I miss [Indecipherable] GS: Okay, I had Mrs. Frump in second grade ES: Did you? GS: Mhm ES: Mrs. Spear (ph) GS: Yes, uh-huh ES: Mr. Zero (ph) GS: Okay, what hours was school held? ES: I don' ; t know, from 9 -- 3 GS: Were you a member of any clubs or organizations or sports? ES: Bristow quarterback club GS: Okay, well when you were in school ES: Oh when I was--no. GS: Yeah, was the school building used for other community purposes? ES: I don' ; t believe so GS: Did your mother pack your lunch for you or did you eat in the cafeteria? ES: Both GS: Both? ES: Yeah GS: What kind of lunches did she pack you? ES: Sandwiches GS: Do you remember anything about the classroom in particular? ES: Not really GS: Were your teachers strict? Kind? What were your teachers like? ES: They were kind but strict GS: Kind but strict. Okay, did your family go to church when you were a child? ES: Yes GS: Which church did they attend? ES: Bristow Gospel Tabernacle GS: Okay, is the same building now standing? ES: Mhm GS: Describe what your Sunday services were like ES: Typical prayer station, then a sermon. And [Indecipherable] GS: Did they have Sunday school-- ES: Yes GS: --before, mhm. Do you remember any of the songs they sang? ES: Just the old hymns GS: Were holiday events at church special? Did they do anything special for Christmas or Easter or--? ES: Yes, we always had a program GS: Was it a children' ; s program? ES: Mhm GS: Were you in those? ES: Yes GS: What did--what was your favorite one? Can you remember one in particular? ES: No GS: What were Christmases like when you were a kid? ES: They were good GS: They were good, did you get a lot of gifts, one special gift? ES: We' ; d usually get one special gift GS: And did you--I' ; ve been curious about this, did you put up the tree like a month ahead of time or did you wait just a few days before Christmas? ES: Few days before GS: Few days before, I think that used to be more common than it is today ES: Yeah GS: Did your mother sing in the choir? ES: No GS: Or your father? ES: No GS: Were they involved in the church in any way? ES: A little, not a whole lot GS: What was medical care like when you were a child? You mentioned Dr. King delivered you, can you remember going to the doctor when you were small? ES: Just for immunizations GS: Yeah, yeah. Did you have a family doctor? ES: Yes GS: Dr. King? ES: Dr. King GS: Did he make house calls? ES: Yes, he did GS: I didn' ; t remember if he did or not. Did your mom have any home remedies that she would try out on you? ES: Yeah, I don' ; t remember what they were GS: But you were her guinea pig, huh ES: Yeah GS: Were you ever hospitalized? ES: I think once in my life I' ; ve been in the hospital with a pneumonia GS: Ah ES: I' ; ve been fortunate GS: Okay we' ; re gonna turn around to Bristow now. What are your recollections of Bristow from when you were a kid? ES: My recollections? GS: Uh-huh ES: It was a small town GS: Anything in particular you remember like the buildings or the people or the business? ES: Oh the parks and the people and the church, schools. GS: Any building in particular stand out to you ES: No GS: Did you--I know we had two walk in theaters and a drive in theater, did you attend those? ES: Yes GS: Did you do it on a regular basis? ES: Not regularly, we did it every now and then GS: Every now and then. Did you go to the Princes or the Walmer or the Drive in? ES: Both GS: Both ES: There' ; s Walmer, the Princes, and the Drive in GS: Yeah, okay. Do you remember any of the big businesses in town? ES: M& ; P Grocery (ph), Woolworth (ph), that' ; s about all I can remember. GS: Okay, what kind of shops did your mother go to shop at? ES: Grocery store GS: Did she go to Shamus dry goods ES: Yeah GS: Or to the Globe Store to buy her clothes ES: Yeah GS: Or did she make her own clothes? ES: No, she would go to the store GS: Okay, did you ever eat out at the restaurants? I know the answer to this ES: Yes, my mother worked at Hi-Way Café so we were always eating at it GS: Yeah, yeah. How did women dress back then? ES: How did what? GS: How did women dress back then? ES: Long dresses GS: And the men? ES: Jeans and shirt GS: I bet you saw a few more overalls ES: Oh yeah GS: And suspenders back then too ES: Yeah GS: Did Bristow have any main holiday events that they would make a big to-do out of? ES: They would always have a Christmas event GS: Parades? ES: Mhm GS: Did they have a fourth of July parade or a fireworks display? ES: I believe they did, yeah. If I remember right. GS: I remember going to the pirate drive in theater for fireworks ES: Mhm GS: After the double feature on the fourth of July. Did you ever do that? ES: Yeah, yeah. GS: Okay. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? You had no--yeah. Nothing, huh? Okay what was your first job? ES: Working in service station GS: Which one was it? ES: Henshaw GS: Henshaws? Where was that located? ES: It' ; s about fourth and main GS: Fourth and main, okay. Where-- ES: Down where the old ice plant used to be, you remember that thing? GS: Oh, okay, yeah. ES: [Indecipherable] it was right in there. GS: Okay, what kind of jobs have you had in your life? ES: Service station, policeman, military, that' ; s about it. GS: City councilman? ES: City council, yeah. GS: What career did you land on to raise your children? ES: Department of Public Safety GS: Department of Public Safety, and what was your job there? ES: Policeman. GS: Okay, how did you decide to become a policeman Edgar? ES: I don' ; t know, I just--I just liked it and enjoyed doing it GS: What do you think drew you to it? ES: Just people I knew that were in that profession GS: You respected them and-- ES: Mhm GS: When you were in the military, when and where did you serve? ES: I served in Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, Korea. GS: Were you in the national guard or the army or what branch were you in? ES: Regular army GS: Regular army, and what rank were you? ES: Sergeant GS: Sergeant, and what years were you in there Edgar? ES: 19--I forgot already. Probably 1956 GS: Okay, I just like to check it every now and then.1956 through what? ES: 62' ; maybe GS: Okay, so you saw active duty in Korea? ES: Yes, after the war GS: After the war? ES: Yes GS: So you probably weren' ; t injured since it was after the war ES: Right GS: Were you in the peace keeping-- ES: Yes, occupation force GS: Okay, when and where did you meet Nancy? ES: When did I meet? GS: Uh-huh, when and where? ES: Well I don' ; t know GS: You just always knew her maybe? ES: Yeah just probably, we got together. GS: What were your first impressions of Nancy? What made you fall in love with Nancy? ES: Personality GS: Her personality, she did have a great personality. Were you engaged very long? ES: Six months maybe GS: Six months, did you have a big wedding? ES: We had a church [Indecipherable] GS: Very nice, what were your first years of marriage like? ES: Very good GS: Very good, did you live in a house, an apartment building with parents, where did you live? ES: We lived in rent houses GS: In rent houses, and where did you work when you were first married? ES: Liberty Glass in Sapulpa GS: At Liberty Glass, did you ever travel to Tulsa or Oklahoma City when you were younger in your early life? ES: A little GS: Did you ever take the train from the depot here? ES: No GS: No, do you have any memories of the depot? ES: I can remember the trains ; it was a [Indecipherable] GS: Does your family always have a car, or was there a first car that made you this-- ES: No we always had a car GS: Yeah ES: My dad always had a car GS: Yeah, do you remember--no you wouldn' ; t remember that, never mind. I--the question was " ; do you remember when route 66 was built?" ; and I thought " ; ah, no" ; ES: That was actually 37' ; GS: That was a long time ago. Do you remember though when route 66 came through here and was a big deal? ES: Oh yeah GS: Yeah, well it still does. Where did the Viet (ph) travelers stay when they came through Bristow? ES: I remember Thurman motel, there was two or three motels in town. GS: Was Thurman motels related in any way to Nancy your wife? ES: No GS: No, and I' ; m sure that they would stop at the Hi-Way Café and eat? ES: Oh yeah, Hi-Way Café GS: What are some of the other restaurants you think they stopped at? ES: Harby House (ph) GS: Where was the Harby House located? ES: Somewhere along there where our shop is now, where our shop was it was right in there GS: Where Candy Creations? ES: Yes, yes. [Indecipherable] GS: So between 8th and 9th street? ES: Yeah GS: Okay, on the west side. ES: Yeah. GS: Okay ES: Hi-Way Café GS: Are there any businesses that catered specifically to route 66 travelers, do you remember? ES: Probably Hamburger King and what was the other restaurant there by Hamburger King? GS: Oh, J& ; J Café ES: Mhm GS: Okay. Okay, we' ; re gonna switch gears a little bit here and we' ; re gonna go to racism. Was Bristow a segregated town when you were growing up? ES: Early part, yes. I think I was probably a junior in High School when the first black went to High School in Bristow GS: Okay, do you remember the names of any of the black families in town during your childhood? ES: Not really GS: Were you allowed to socialize with the black kids? ES: Oh yeah, yeah. GS: And so you were a junior when segregation ended and they integrated into the schools. Did you ever swim at the Bristow City pool? ES: Yes GS: Were black children admitted then? ES: I don' ; t believe so GS: How were most black people employed in the city? ES: Some of the worked for the city, some of them worked for the county, just various jobs. GS: Do you remember any freedmen in Bristow? ES: Any what? GS: Freedmen ES: No GS: Do you remember any incidents of racism in Bristow or in Oklahoma that occurred? ES: No not really GS: How were Indians treated in Bristow? ES: Indians? They were treated kind. GS: What kind of jobs did they have? ES: Just various, labor GS: Like anybody else? ES: Just various jobs [Indecipherable] GS: Who were some of the Indian families that you might remember? Do you remember any of them? ES: The Riley' ; s, Jerry Riley, Clouds, that' ; s about all I can remember GS: Okay, the Riley' ; s and the Clouds. Were there any other groups here in Bristow that you ever noticed were targeted for exclusion? For instance, maybe the Lebanese or any other groups? ES: There was quite a few Lebanese in Bristow, yeah. GS: Were they ever the targets of racism? ES: I don' ; t believe so, most of them were merchants on main street GS: Okay, was your family involved in any of the early oil well boom that was in Bristow? ES: No GS: Do you have any memories of the boom? The oil boom here? ES: Just vaguely GS: What kind of memories? ES: All the people coming in, fill their [Indecipherable] go out and work on the rigs, stuff like that. GS: Okay ES: Bristow [Indecipherable] the oil boom back then GS: Yes, it was, oil raised me so I have a soft spot for oil. Okay you were born in 39' ; , I didn' ; t want to ask you something that was gonna be age inappropriate there. So you were born at the end of the great depression ES: Right GS: Do you remember in the 40' ; s any residual effects from the depression? ES: No GS: Okay, let' ; s move on to the 40' ; s. You were young, do you remember any of the things that went on in the city lake with the WPA doing the work projects out there, Eleanor Roosevelt coming, you have any memories? ES: [Indecipherable] GS: Of any of that? Do you remember as a kid people using the amphitheater much? ES: Mhm GS: What did they use it for? ES: Concerts, stuff like that. Revivals GS: Did they have high school graduations there? ES: I can' ; t remember, I don' ; t believe they did, but [Indecipherable] GS: You might speak up just a little bit more. Was the lake area crowded? Did the people make good use of the lake? ES: Yup, there was quite a few people use the lake, fishing, even swimming. You wasn' ; t supposed to but they did GS: Yup, didn' ; t stop them did it? ES: Yeah GS: Was your family politically involved? ES: No GS: Okay, did you ever have any family members run for office? ES: No, just me GS: Just you, that' ; s right just you! And how long were you city councilman Edgar? ES: Six years I believe GS: Okay, what years was that, do you remember? ES: No not really GS: Okay, it was fairly recent though, wasn' ; t it? ES: Yeah GS: So in the 2010' ; s or-- ES: Yeah GS: Or in the teen years? ES: Yeah GS: Because it' ; s just been a few years since you retired, hasn' ; t it? ES: Yeah, it has yeah GS: Okay ES: I' ; m 81 now, I retired when I was 65 GS: Okay, what would you consider to be the biggest most--well let me rephrase, what would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime? ES: Most important invention? Probably medical GS: All the medical discoveries that they' ; ve made? ES: All the medical, yeah. GS: And how is the world different now than when you were a child? ES: It' ; s altogether different, it' ; s-- GS: It' ; s not the same at all, is it Edgar? ES: Not the same, people are not involved with helping each other, helping the city, [Indecipherable] GS: It' ; s an opinion I' ; ve had shared quite a bit Edgar. As you see it, what are the biggest problems that face our nation, and how do you think they could be solved? ES: That' ; s a good question, more togetherness, more involvement from people, people becoming involved and together. GS: Right now we' ; re in the middle of a pandemic, how has the COVID pandemic affected you? ES: I trying to stay away from the public, I try to avoid crowds. GS: Are you going to get the vaccination or have you already received it? ES: No they didn' ; t have it, it' ; s coming in next week. GS: Oh ES: Yes, I will get it GS: So you registered online for it? ES: Yeah GS: Good, good. Alright now is there anything I haven' ; t asked you about or anything that you' ; d like to tell me about? ES: No I' ; ve had a good life GS: Had a good life, no complaints, huh? ES: No complaints, Bristow' ; s a good little city for families GS: It is a good city. I really thank you Edgar for coming in and talking to me ES: You' ; re quite welcomeGS: I appreciate your coming down here and this will be an important part of our history here at the museum as well as we share with OSU extension service ES: Okay GS: So thank you so much ES: You bet audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-13_Edgar_Spencer.xml OHP-2020-13_Edgar_Spencer.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
5900
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Edgar Spencer
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2020 interview, Edgar Spencer shares his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses the many businesses and segregation.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-2020-13
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Bristow Historical Society, Inc.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound, oral history
Bristow Gospel Tabernacle
Bristow Public Schools
drive-in theaters
home life
restaurants
stores
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/316ebe0f62d5422f20bd8536a9709184.png
a756240d2dd66efb42ebd6ad41ec2a4d
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Edith Mills
Lucy Mae Mills
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0020_Mills,_Edith_Lucy_Mae.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0020 Edith and Lucy Mae Mills OHP-0020 0:00-1:04:33 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Edith Mills Lucy Mae Mills Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster MP3 1:|58(8)|72(3)|106(10)|133(8)|165(7)|198(17)|246(8)|287(13)|328(2)|363(6)|404(3)|463(5)|491(9)|531(10)|562(3)|598(5)|607(8)|629(2)|681(3)|738(8)|756(4)|791(2)|818(9)|828(5)|856(5)|902(3)|946(11)|971(11)|990(8)|1043(2)|1080(8)|1096(16)|1135(9)|1168(6)|1213(14)|1253(10)|1284(6)|1322(2)|1380(9)|1418(1)|1438(10)|1458(6)|1503(5)|1537(10)|1559(2)|1587(8)|1644(1)|1659(5)|1700(6)|1725(7)|1754(6)|1788(11)|1817(10)|1845(2)|1876(2)|1912(2)|1965(2)|2010(8)|2041(10)|2080(10)|2122(11)|2149(9)|2183(10)|2207(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0020 Mills, Edith & ; Lucy Mae.mp3 Other audio 451 Introduction and History Read Aloud NF : Ms. Mills , we’re so happy that you had us today. Let us come and talk to you about this, because I have a feeling you have information and things that happened that maybe nobody else that we’ve come in contact with would even know. EM: I’ll read this first and see if there’s anything before you record. NF: Okay. EM: Now well, I didn’t know whether you don’t need to leave Mr. Mills name or anything like that but that’s what I had on the recording— NF: Uh-huh. EM: I mean on my history. He came here to this area in 1890 from Guthrie and he helped lay the Frisco Railroad road bed. He— by hauling ties with his mule team, between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. They— he and his brother— first his two brothers and one brother dropped out. They lived on deer meat and wild turkey which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door. They hated to kill the deer because they came up for salt— NF: Mm-hmm. EM: —and they could just rope them and they had their deer meat. NF: Wow. EM: Or salt and let’s see— which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door for salt and the wild turkeys roosted in trees at night. They’d catch all they wanted at night. Indians taught them how to make (Indecipherable) from corn. So they had plenty of meat and then they had the (Indecipherable) that the Indians taught them to make. Then here in Bristow, I had a note here on the old Skinner Barn was located right down here. Arthur Foster ; Claire Diehl ; Country Club ; Edith Abbott ; Ethan Mills ; Frisco Railroad ; Guthrie ; JC Penny ; Mr. Meirs ; Ms. Fox ; Oil Field ; Oklahoma City ; Ranny Foster ; Skinner Barn ; Superstitious ; Tulsa https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158473193/nancy-carolyn-foster Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330257/edith-n.-mills Edith N. Stansbury Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330447/ethan-a.-mills Ethan A. Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184927/arthur-morgan-foster Arthur Morgan Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22434083/ranny-foster Ranny Morgan Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/188777833/claire-edith-diehl Claire Edith Foster Diehl https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19551981/edith-edna-abbott Edith Edna Morgan Abbott 640 3A and 4B NF: Ms. Mills where was the school in which you taught here in Bristow? EM: Where was what? NF: Where was the school where you taught? Where was it located. EM: Oh, it was an old building. It’s been torn down. NF: Was it up here at Washington? EM: No. NF: Over— EM: It was across it. NF: Across it on the other side? EM: That’s right. NF: Yeah. Did you have a number of grades in one room? Or were there enough children to have a teacher for each grade? EM: Let me tell you, I had sixty in one room. WS: Oh! EM: I had sixty and they were mixed. I had a few colored too. Jack Abraham ; Mrs. Gee ; Old Brother Morgan ; Ray Powers https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624787/jack-abraham Jack Abraham https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330206/raymond-l.-power Raymond L. " ; Ray" ; Power 847 First Home and Carnegie Library NF: Did you live in town here in Bristow, or did you live out on the ranch? When you and Mr. Mills married. EM: Oh, well I was living with my aunt— NF: No, but I mean when you married Mr. Mills did you— did you— was your home here in town? LM: Across the street. EM: No. NF: Across the street. EM: Oh, across the street. NF: Yeah, uh-huh. EM: You mean our first home? NF: Your first home, yes. EM: Uh-huh. NF: Yeah. Anna Bullington ; Baptist Church ; Burnett ; California ; Carnegie Library ; City Library ; George Bullington ; Mr. Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/140585804/george-e.-bullington George E. Bullington https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/224757804/anna-e.-bullington Anna E. Bullington 1104 The Depression Era and Mrs. Roosevelts Visit NF: Do you remember many things of The Depression era? Now that’s dropping back more to the present. EM: What years was it? NF: Well, what were they? Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-three? WS: Twenty-nine probably— NF: Twenty-nine. WS: —when it started. EM: Well I’d have to— (Chuckling) EM: —think quite a— quite a lot if I remember— if I do remember anything I— NF: I remember when I first came to Bristow in thirty-five, we were fairly close— close to the railroad, and men were turning— would often turn up at the back door wanting to be fed. EM: Oh. NF: But you may have been far enough from the railroad they didn’t come here. EM: No I had— I had some. Creek ; Indians ; Mr. Black ; Mrs. Roosevelt ; Oral Roberts ; Railroad ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; Youth Center ; Yuchi 1413 Mr. Mills Pioneer Log Cabin and The Commonality of Tuberculosis LM: Mother had been working with the NRA and the something then hadn’t you mother? She had been working on a lot of those things. NF: Oh. EM: I’ve worked on so many things, I’ve forgotten (chuckling) NF: Yeah. EM: So, yes I was— NF: I remember those young men lived out at the Youth Center and made furniture— EM: Yes. NF: If I remember right. EM: Mm-hmm. Yes. NF: Now whose cabin is this? EM: This is Mr. Mills pioneer log cabin. NF: Oh my! EM: That is Mr. Mills standing there— NF: Yeah. EM: —and that’s me. I preferred to sit down and be out of the picture. NF: Yeah. EM: So (Chuckling) NF: Well now, is this a breezeway between it or is it just a— EM: A breezeway— Chandler ; Diphtheria ; Guthrie ; Indian Territory ; Iowa ; Mills Chapel ; Mr. Mills ; Nashville, Tennessee ; Nells Chapel ; NRA ; Small Pox ; Tuberculosis ; Youth Center 1776 Clubs, Catalogs, and Cotton WS: Now did you help organize the Culture Club? EM: Let me see, did I or did I not? If I didn’t, I was right— the next one— I was right close because so many people thought that I did. So I don’t know whether I was in the first organization or not. Mrs. Cheeton (ph) was the main go ahead in the— WS: The Embroidery Club and the Culture Club were the— LM: There used to be a Dalcam (ph) society here years ago. WS: Yes, that was after that. Uh-huh. LM: Was it after, well I didn’t know when— WS: My mother and Ms. Lefflar (ph) I know. I can remember— the volumes you see in the libraries. UI: Uh-huh WS: Dalcam (ph) EM: Your mother was very active in everything. She helped a lot to build Bristow beginning and— WS: Well it’s a wonder with five children that she had the— (Laughter) EM: Well yes! And believe me, they weren’t just children, they were busy bodies. Those twins (Chuckling). I went there to— George McMillian (ph) was having a demonstration of this new kind of washer. You know the kind that kind of tipped forward and over a hump. I don’t know whether you remember it or not. And they couldn’t— you couldn’t step one way or the other without stepping on one of those twins. American National Bank ; Burmont Oil Company ; Carson Pirie Scott ; Chicago ; Cotton ; Dalcam Club ; Embroidery Club ; George McMillian ; Mrs. Cheeton ; Ms. Lefflar ; Oil Business ; Oil Field ; Old Skinner Barn ; Safeway ; The Culture Club ; Wagon 1964 A Picture Worth More than 1000 Dollars EM: Here’s a sweet picture. That’s Jack Abraham . He was one of my pets, but people didn’t know it. (Laughter) NF: Oh, isn’t he cute! LM: That’s the one that brought the apple everyday wasn’t it? EM: Huh? LM: He was the one that brought the apple to the teacher. EM: He brought an apple every day. NF: Ah! EM: Everyday an apple. NF: (Indecipherable) EM: He was a darling student. He wasn’t spoiled! He didn’t— he scarcely ever do anything wrong. Jack was ideal. NF: Well. Well, he’s a cute little boy. I had a little Thompson (ph) last year that looks an awful lot like him. She’d be a great niece. She’s— EM: Oh. NF: She’s— her daddy lives down in this Spanish style house down here. What’s that Abraham— LM: Gene (ph)? Gene Thompson (ph)? Oh, Herby (ph). NF: Herby! She’s Herby’s granddaughter. Bristow Historical Society ; Gene Thompson ; Herby Abraham ; Jack Abraham ; Lucy West ; Mrs. Dye ; Mrs. Mcclendon ; Orval Eden ; Ruth Appleview ; The Bristow Enterprise ; The Bristow Record https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/609440/viola-dye Viola Dye https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/230577892/lucy-clay-west Lucy Clay Longacre West 2117 The Pony Express to Phillipsburg LM: You need to tell them that dad used to run the Pony Express to Phillipsburg. NF: Oh really! EM: What? LM: He used to run that Pony Express from Phillipsburg. EM: Oh. NF: Pony Express. EM: Ethan did, yes. He rode the Pony Express for years to Phillipsburg. There was no Slick then and very few people know about Phillipsburg. NF: Arthur was telling us yesterday lunch that there was a Phillipsburg and was the other Robertsburg (ph)? He gave about three or four community names that I have never hear of. EM: Well the mail— Ethan took the mail just to Phillipsburg. NF: To Phillipsburg, and that was near Slick? EM: Yes. LM: About a mile and a half west of Slick, but they say the foundations are still out there. NF: Oh. Chandler ; Livery Stable ; Mr. Holocomb ; Phillipsburg ; Pony Express ; Robertsburg ; Sac and Fox ; Shamrock ; Slick ; Stillwater 2265 Wild Game and Snake Indians WS: There was plenty of wild game too in that time. EM: Oh yes! WS: You outta see, talk about the turkeys and the deer and oh, they just must have been so much. EM: The deer would come up to the door for salt and you just felt guilty capturing them when they were so tame. NF: Uh- huh. EM: And the wild turkeys— LM: (Inaudible) EM: Oh (Chuckling) an explosion! NF: Okay. EM: They’ve been blasting. I’ve heard at the noon hour. NF: Hmm. EM: Yes, those wild turkeys, you could just go out and sit out any night and make the trees and just choose whatever bird you wanted. NF: Now the buffalo had— if there had ever been here, were long gone weren’t they— by that time. EM: Yes. Buffalo ; Clad Purdy ; Deer ; Indians ; Snake Indian ; Turkey ; Wild Game 2663 The Building of Home WS: And did you always live in town? Or did you live out on the ranch? EM: We lived across the street. WS: Oh across the street. EM: Yes. WS: Uh-huh. EM: Ethan’s first wife and family lived out there on what we call the Home Place. WS: Mm-hmm. LM: It’s where Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph) live— were living now. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Just a little bit south of— NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. LM: That’s where I was born and Ernest was born. EM: They still have the old Home Place, but they’ve built a new— Mr. Jackson (ph) built a new house for the— what’s their names? Claude Freeland ; Ekdahl House ; Ernest Mills ; L.LCurl ; Leonard Martin ; McMillian House ; Mills Chapel Schoolhouse ; Mr. Jackson ; Mr. Owens ; The Great Depression ; The Old Home Place ; World War I ; World War II https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330445/ernest-h-mills Ernest H. Mills 2993 Excitement in Bristow NF: Can you think of anytime in Bristow that there was a real exciting time? How about when the refinery caught on fire. Do you remember that? EM: Yes, I remember. But there wasn’t— it didn’t seem to me like there was a terrible lot of excitement about it that I recall. EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE EM: The most exciting days were when the school building burned up here and when Eleanor Roosevelt came to town. (Laughter) EM: I think— I think Eleanor’s visit was the most exciting. NF: Yeah. WS: Do you recall that wreck out there close to Heyburn? Two trains, you see. EM: Oh railroad. WS: Railroad wreck. EM: I don’t recall. Chandler ; Cyclone ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Glen Acres ; Heyburn ; Kansas ; McAlister ; Mills Chapel ; Miss Sneed ; Nellie West ; Oklahoma City ; Railroad ; The Great Depression ; Train ; Tulsa https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/189646870/nellie-a-west Nellie A Rhoads West 3229 Baking and Preserving During The Great Depression EM: During the Depression in the Depression days, you couldn’t— I guess you’d call that Depression days, you couldn’t get flour. Couldn’t get whole— whole— or white flour. WS: Yes. EM: And my— Ethan’s mother would— she baked a lot and she wouldn’t use that new kind of flour at all. So I loaded up a fifty-pound sack, put it in a gunny sack, and boarded the train and took her a sack of flour (chuckling) NF: Oh! EM: But was she happy. She was really happy. LM: To Chandler. EM: Chandler, yes. NF: Yeah. WS: That was hard for us to get accustomed to, I recall— EM: Oh! WS: —you took flour you know because— EM: You recall. WS: Yes. EM: Those were pinchy days. We didn’t bake. We quit baking much of anything. Biscuits, white loaves, (Indecipherable Chandler ; Ethan Mills ; Preserves ; The Great Depression 3440 Clothing Making and Shopping NF: Well about their clothing now, did women made most of their own clothing in those days? They didn’t buy readymade dresses and— EM: No. They didn’t. They didn’t have very many for sale in small towns. In large cities I suppose they had plenty. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But they didn’t have very many small towns. NF: Did you have a town dress maker or did everybody sew for herself. EM: (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph) was the town dress maker and she— people who wanted good things went to (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph). NF: Well now, this is before she worked in the post office? EM: Yes. NF: I just supposed she’d been always worked in the post office. Well. EM: No for years— LM: She used to have a shop up there in the old stone building. EM: She made all of Lucy Mae’s clothes for years. LM: I still have the top to a real pretty white wool. Had an accordion pleated skirt that was an old white wool, had the fine lace all around. Clothing ; Dress Maker ; Ethan Mills ; Hookens Hotel ; Main Street ; Mr. Jackson ; Mrs. Klingensmith ; Oklahoma City ; Taxi ; Train 3872 College and Education in Bristow NF: Well I remember the first teachers meeting I went to. We went to Tulsa on the train. EM: You did? The first teachers meeting was in Tulsa? NF: Well after I started teaching— yeah. EM: (Indecipherable talking in background) LM: After she started teaching— NF: Uh-huh. Thirty-one years ago. The first time— EM: Oh! NF: —the first state teachers meeting happened to be in Tulsa that year, and we went up on the train. EM: Oh. Old timers. NF: Uh-huh. (Chuckling) LM: When I went to school I went on the train to Chicago and to Chicago changed over to— to Madison. NF: Where did you go, Lucy Mae? LM: Wisconsin. Bristow Junior College ; Chicago ; Christmas ; E.H. Black ; Ethan Mills ; Kansas City ; Madison Wisconsin ; Ms. McCormick ; Music Club ; Navy ; Oklahoma A& ; M ; Railroad ; Train ; Tulsa ; University of Wisconsin ; Water Wells Interviewer: Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster (NF) Interviewee: Edith Mills (EM) Other Persons: Lucy Mae Mills (LM) Unknown Woman (WS) Date of Interview: Unknown Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. (Indecipherable) NF: Ms. Mills, we' ; re so happy that you had us today. Let us come and talk to you about this, because I have a feeling you have information and things that happened that maybe nobody else that we' ; ve come in contact with would even know. EM: I' ; ll read this first and see if there' ; s anything before you record. NF: Okay. EM: Now well, I didn' ; t know whether you don' ; t need to leave Mr. Mills name or anything like that but that' ; s what I had on the recording-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: I mean on my history. He came here to this area in 1890 from Guthrie and he helped lay the Frisco Railroad road bed. He-- by hauling ties with his mule team, between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. They-- he and his brother-- first his two brothers and one brother dropped out. They lived on deer meat and wild turkey which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door. They hated to kill the deer because they came up for salt-- NF: Mm-hmm. EM: --and they could just rope them and they had their deer meat. NF: Wow. EM: Or salt and let' ; s see-- which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door for salt and the wild turkeys roosted in trees at night. They' ; d catch all they wanted at night. Indians taught them how to make (Indecipherable) from corn. So they had plenty of meat and then they had the (Indecipherable) that the Indians taught them to make. Then here in Bristow, I had a note here on the old Skinner Barn was located right down here. NF: Now that would be here on Chestnut? EM: Yeah, on Walnut Street. LM: First. NF: On Walnut. EM: And Main. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Mainly on Walnut and Main. NF: Walnut and Main. EM: Old Skinner Barn. NF: Now was that a livery stable thing or a barn to store stuff? EM: For oil field-- NF: Oh-- EM: --hauling. NF: Yeah. EM: It was mules-- mules mainly. No trucks in those days. They located at Fourth and Washington Street that is right down here one block. This was before the trucks took over. Horses were then the only means of transportation. Another location was between Chestnut and Oak. They had one right here. NF: Uh-huh. EM: And located the large one between Chestnut and Oak. Mr Meirs, M-E-I-R-S I think it was spelled, operated that out there. And that' ; s just about all I had. I might be able to answer some questions but I don' ; t know. NF: Well when did you come into this area? EM: What did you say? NF: When did you come into this-- EM: 1915. NF: In 1915. EM: Mm-hmm. I came here to teach, I taught school. NF: Yeah. EM: Came here to teach. Well, I came to visit my uncle and aunt. I was going to take a year' ; s vacation. I thought I needed it. I had taught-- let' ; s see, I' ; d taught six or seven years at that time, I think seven years. And I thought I needed a vacation, so I came here but they needed a teacher (Chuckling). I broke the rule. NF: (Chuckling) EM: And we taught not very long. Ms. Fox (ph) took my place. I met Ethan and we were married in February (Chuckling). I had taught from September to February-- NF: Wow! EM: --and was married. NF: Yeah. WS: February 1916, huh? EM:19-- I came here in 1915-- WS: But you married in 1916? EM: That' ; s right. LM: Fifteen-- NF: Well I remember the first time-- EM: February the 13th. NF: February the-- (Chuckling) EM: The way that I know-- (Chuckling) -- he almost passed out because he was so superstitious and I never was about anything. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But it was February the 13th like it or not. NF: (Chuckling) WS: My mother was superstitious that way too. I think that was-- that' ; s Syrian. Mm-hm. EM: I think it' ; s too bad because it gives you a lot of unhappiness that' ; s unnecessary. LM: Yes! Yes! (Laughter) EM: But that' ; s sad. I wouldn' ; t have thought, your mother' ; s so happy go lucky I wouldn' ; t have thought she was superstitious at all! She was one of the happiest persons I' ; ve ever met. NF: Yeah. EM: Liked to meet and be around. I worked on the country club. WS: I recall that you worked on the country club cook book with her-- EM: -- together. WS: Mm-hmm. EM: Crowd had such a good time. NF: Well a long time ago, when I first came to Bristow, I met you in JCPenny' ; s store. And I had my daughter Claire in the buggy pushing her, and I think that was the first time we met and you said then that you had known Arthur and Louis' ; s (ph) mother quite well. EM: Oh my, yes. We were very dear friends. NF: Well. Well, that' ; s good. Interesting to me because I didn' ; t ever get to know her of course. EM: Ranny? NF: Uh-huh. EM: Yes. She was a precious person. NF: Well. EM: Wonderful person. NF: Yeah. EM: And I knew her sister too, but-- NF: Edith, yeah. EM: Ranny was-- really came in before her sister-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --did. Yes, she was a wonderful person. You don' ; t see people-- or meet them very often like Ranny Foster. NF: Yeah. EM: She was a doll. NF: Well, that always makes me happy to hear things like that because I' ; ve never felt that I' ; ve known her, you know? We loved Aunt Edith so-- EM: Oh well yes! This Ranny was absolutely without fault. You couldn' ; t find a-- NF: Well. EM: --fault of any kind with Ranny. Not any, she just is a doll. NF: Well EM: You' ; re just kind of ruining your mommies-- (Chuckling) LM: Here come here. EM: --dress. Why don' ; t you get down hmm? I put a chain on her so she wouldn' ; t be too friendly. She runs and gets on the company' ; s lap. She thinks they' ; ll be friendly but she thinks theres the least doubt shes apt to bit em' ; . (Laughter) EM: Get the first bite. NF: Ms. Mills where was the school in which you taught here in Bristow? EM: Where was what? NF: Where was the school where you taught? Where was it located. EM: Oh, it was an old building. It' ; s been torn down. NF: Was it up here at Washington? EM: No. NF: Over-- EM: It was across it. NF: Across it on the other side? EM: That' ; s right. NF: Yeah. Did you have a number of grades in one room? Or were there enough children to have a teacher for each grade? EM: Let me tell you, I had sixty in one room. WS: Oh! EM: I had sixty and they were mixed. I had a few colored too. NF: Yeah. EM: Yes. Some school-- LM: What grades did you teach? EM: --and you remember the old man Morgan (ph)? That lived out-- NF: Oh Brother Morgan (ph)-- EM: Yes. NF: --the one they called Old Brother Morgan (ph)? EM: Brother Morgan. I had his son. NF: Well. LM: You had Jack Abraham didn' ; t you, grandma? EM: I had to send Brother Morgan' ; s (ph) son home to take a bath once or twice. (Laughter) EM: (Indecipherable) There might be some relatives around, I don' ; t know. But they were nice people. NF: Uh-huh. EM: They-- I' ; d take that they was just careless with the boy. I think he-- NF: Well he may have hid out on bath night too. (Chuckling) EM: That' ; s right. NF: Boys are still like that sometimes. EM: Oh yes, boys are boys. Can' ; t make anything else out of them. WS: Now what grade was that-- did you attend-- EM: When I came here, I came to visit my uncle and aunt. And the vacancy occurred in the 3A and 4B grades. And I filled out until I-- NF: So those were not kids from grade one through six, they were grades in the third and fourth grade. EM: 3A and 4B-- NF: And you had sixty? EM: Had sixty. NF: Well Bristow was evidently growing. EM: Yes. NF: Fast at that time-- EM: And there was another teacher over here that had the same grade. Mrs. Gee (ph). G double E. NF: Yeah. WS: Hmm. EM: She was a very good teacher. Very good. LM: She had the same grade on this side of town? EM: Yes. LM: You had two elementary schools then? EM: At one time we did. Now I wouldn' ; t say that they kept that up, but at one time there was, and I' ; m quite sure. We had a good superintendent, he was so sharp. NF: Uh-huh. EM: What was his name? And what was it-- Oh my stars. He passed away not too long ago. The principal-- WS: Ray Powers? EM: Ray Powers. WS: Mm-hmm. EM: That' ; s right. Everybody liked Ray. He wasn' ; t very much on discipline (Chuckling) but he was a good ole boy. We all liked him. WS: He was my first teacher. EM: Really? WS: Mm-hmm. Sixth grade. Over there at that school. EM: Well I declare. Well we all liked Ray. NF: Did you live in town here in Bristow, or did you live out on the ranch? When you and Mr. Mills married. EM: Oh, well I was living with my aunt-- NF: No, but I mean when you married Mr. Mills did you-- did you-- was your home here in town? LM: Across the street. EM: No. NF: Across the street. EM: Oh, across the street. NF: Yeah, uh-huh. EM: You mean our first home? NF: Your first home, yes. EM: Uh-huh. NF: Yeah. EM: Across the street. LM: Mr. and Ms. Bullington were living with him before you were married weren' ; t they? EM: Oh yes, he lived with Bullington. NF: With George and-- EM: George. NF: Oh-- EM: And Anna. NF: George and Anna. EM: Yes. Yes. He lived with them. NF: Well. EM: And then I lived with em for a little while-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --until they found another location that they liked. NF: Uh-huh. Well. EM: They' ; re good people, George and Anna. NF: Yes. We loved them too. In fact, our son, George is named after-- EM: Oh really? NF: After George Bullington. EM: Well. LM: Hmm. EM: We like George ; in fact, we' ; ve got to see George pretty soon. NF: (Chuckling) Well George will be back from vacation-- EM: Oh he' ; s gone? NF: --this weekend. He' ; s been to Cal-- he' ; s been in California. EM: Oh! Well I' ; m glad to know that, I won' ; t bother to make an appointment until-- until I know he' ; s back. NF: Yeah. So you just taught the one term then. EM: Not a whole term. NF: Not even a whole term? EM: Hmm-nnNF: Yeah. EM: I just-- I was just filling in. NF: Uh-huh. Filling-- EM: Anyway, you know. And I just-- I didn' ; t come here to teach. NF: Uh-huh. Well has the-- now when did the Baptist Church move where it is now. The Bap-- was it Baptist Church there on ninth? EM: I was going-- I joined the Baptist Church down there in that old church building down on the other corner. NF: Oh! Uh-huh. EM: Mr. Mills joined up here at this location. NF: Uh-huh. Yeah. EM: Yes. We had quite a busy life. Different ways. NF: Now you-- you helped start the city library too, did you not? WS: Yes! EM: Yes, let me see. I was-- did I or did I not-- anyway, we organized. NF: Uh-huh. EM: It had been helter-skelter and we organized the-- got it organized and going in the right direction, I would say. NF: There had-- there had been books to check out-- EM: Oh yes. NF: --before that time. EM: It had been a library before my time. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But it didn' ; t have much of an organization. Burnett (ph) was a wonderful person-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --to work with. NF: Uh-huh. WS: Did Carnegie give the money for the building? Wasn' ; t it called the Carnegie Library? Didn' ; t he give the-- EM: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t think that-- WS: I don' ; t remember whether it was for the building or for books or something, but I thought he helped. EM: They may have-- we (indecipherable) Carnegie donation. I had forgotten about that, but the records would show. But I' ; ve really forgotten. NF: Do you remember many things of The Depression era? Now that' ; s dropping back more to the present. EM: What years was it? NF: Well, what were they? Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-three? WS: Twenty-nine probably-- NF: Twenty-nine. WS: --when it started. EM: Well I' ; d have to-- (Chuckling) EM: --think quite a-- quite a lot if I remember-- if I do remember anything I-- NF: I remember when I first came to Bristow in thirty-five, we were fairly close-- close to the railroad, and men were turning-- would often turn up at the back door wanting to be fed. EM: Oh. NF: But you may have been far enough from the railroad they didn' ; t come here. EM: No I had-- I had some. NF: Did you? EM: Yep. Yes, I had a few I recall. NF: And I wondered if you remembered about the-- anything about the soup kitchen that I' ; ve heard Arthur say that his dad helped organize downtown where different restaurant owners gave leftovers and groceries. And they fixed a soup I guess it was and gave to anybody-- EM: Yes. NF: --who needed food. EM: And some people donated different things. Some delicacies and-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --some just plain food. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Different people donated but I didn' ; t know very much about the soup kitchen, really. NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. EM: Didn' ; t hear very much about it. NF: I don' ; t think it lasted too long until government stepped in and began to do things. Well you' ; ve really lived in a period where you' ; ve seen it grow from a sure enough pioneer times to-- EM: Oh, yes! NF: --we' ; re about to be a metropolis I guess! (Chuckling) EM: And Mr. Mills really came in in the very early times and there was only two-- he heard-- he and another fellow were the only two white men in this whole area and he never met any other white men. He tried his best but he couldn' ; t. And the Indians, the Yuchi and Creek were very friendly-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --and he loved them all and they loved him. So it was a-- the stories he had to tell were very, very interesting. I got left out of this picture, I was co-hostess with Mr. Black (ph) when I was-- I guess you' ; d call it co-hostess. He was host and I was co, and they left me out of the picture and set me right there. They wanted to get the men. NF: Oh! EM: Over here and that is Mrs. Roosevelts visit. NF: Oh, that' ; s the time Mrs. Roosevelt came to-- EM: Yes. Mr. Black (ph) and I were on the committee, Receiving Committee. NF: Well, now that' ; s interesting. EM: I didn' ; t want to serve, but Mr. Black (ph) just absolutely forced me into it and so that was that. But she was a very gracious person, but I' ; ll never forget her eyes. She and who else-- I believe its Oral Roberts, someone I' ; ve met seemed to be looking way, way. They don' ; t see anything around them, they see way, way beyond. I' ; ll never forget those eyes. Wonderful eyes. NF: Well I barely remember ; we were-- we went out when-- didn' ; t she dedicate the Youth Center out on the hill? EM: That' ; s-- NF: As I remember, she had on a lovely, blue, medium blue colored, suit. Do you remember the-- EM: Yes. NF: Uh-huh. Such a pretty blue. LM: Very nice. EM: It-- it looked so nice on her. NF: Mm-hmm-- LM: Mother had been working with the NRA and the something then hadn' ; t you mother? She had been working on a lot of those things. NF: Oh. EM: I' ; ve worked on so many things, I' ; ve forgotten (chuckling) NF: Yeah. EM: So, yes I was-- NF: I remember those young men lived out at the Youth Center and made furniture-- EM: Yes. NF: If I remember right. EM: Mm-hmm. Yes. NF: Now whose cabin is this? EM: This is Mr. Mills pioneer log cabin. NF: Oh my! EM: That is Mr. Mills standing there-- NF: Yeah. EM: --and that' ; s me. I preferred to sit down and be out of the picture. NF: Yeah. EM: So (Chuckling) NF: Well now, is this a breezeway between it or is it just a-- EM: A breezeway-- NF: --porch on it? It' ; s a breezeway. EM: It' ; s a breezeway. NF: Uh-huh. EM: they built so many when they didn' ; t have air conditionings, they built so many breezeways. NF: Uh-huh. Well they were-- they were smart. They knew there was going to be an energy shortage someday, didn' ; t they? (Laughter) EM: They must' ; ve looked ahead about fifty years. NF: Well. LM: That was located just west of Nells Chapel (ph) NF: Oh. EM: I didn' ; t see that. That was torn down for that new, brick, Mills Chapel building. NF: Oh I see. EM: I say-- I hated to see it go down. NF: Well it' ; s a shame that we couldn' ; t have preserved it. EM: Yes, it could have been preserved. I really hated-- WS: There is one at Nashville. It' ; s still at Nashville. EM: What? WS: One at Nashville, Tennessee just like that. That' ; s that-- they preserved in a park there. Probably rebuilt it. EM: Oh you mean-- WS: One like it-- that cabin. Yes. Breezeway and everything. NF: Well it looked like a nice, big, comfortable, one. EM: Oh, he said it was. It was just-- it was nice on the inside was finished-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --it was finished quite nicely on the inside. NF: Uh-huh. EM: These two rooms. NF: Uh-huh. Now you say his two brothers didn' ; t stay in this part of the country? EM: No, Dan (ph) and Jessie (ph) Jessie died and Dan didn' ; t want to stay, so Ethan toughed it out. NF: Yeah. EM: Himself. He was a pretty good cook. So he just toughed it out. NF: Had he grown up around Guthrie? EM: Well, while he was-- let' ; s see he was-- he was fourteen years old when they came. Let me think-- LM: He came over here, mother. EM: To Guthrie. Am I right? LM: Uh-huh. He came from Iowa in 1898. NF: Oh, uh-huh. LM: He was in that run to Guthrie. NF: Oh! The run to Guthrie. Oh yes! Uh-huh. EM: And then from-- LM: And then he moved to Chandler, and he and the boys came on over here. NF: Uh-huh. Just crossed into Indian Territory. EM: From Guthrie-- LM: His folks moved to Chandler. EM: --came over here and the brothers-- one died-- I don' ; t think Jessie died here. He died of TB and I think he died at Chandler. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But Dan, the other brother stayed awhile and then left and Ethan batched it out by himself. NF: You know, in our talking with people to tell of the past, I have been surprised at how many people seem to have had Tuberculosis. That two genera-- one gen-- two generations ago. And it must' ; ve been a quite common disease. EM: It was. You know, there is a year where Small Pox will be common and then a year where Diphtheria takes a wave and then a year that TB-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --or years really. Several years. NF: Well did people usually go ahead and die when they had Tuberculosis or did they ever get over it? EM: I don' ; t know of anyone that survived-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --in the early days, I don' ; t. NF: Uh-huh. EM: I don' ; t. I don' ; t think they did. NF: Well, we' ; ve certainly come a long way-- EM: His-- NF: --in medicine. EM: His father really-- they thought-- in those days, they couldn' ; t tell exactly what they had. They didn' ; t diagnose very well. But he thought his father died of TB. NF: Well you know, I think from things that have-- that people have said about Arthur' ; s grandfather that after-- see he died within five years after he' ; d come to Bristow and he was comparably young man. I just wondered if it could have been Tuberculosis. It was about a year' ; s length illness and it sounded much like it. EM: That' ; s just about the time it took to take them after they-- NF: And they came in 1901. That left her a widow with about five children. Mm-hmm. WS: Now did you help organize the Culture Club? EM: Let me see, did I or did I not? If I didn' ; t, I was right-- the next one-- I was right close because so many people thought that I did. So I don' ; t know whether I was in the first organization or not. Mrs. Cheeton (ph) was the main go ahead in the-- WS: The Embroidery Club and the Culture Club were the-- LM: There used to be a Dalcam (ph) society here years ago. WS: Yes, that was after that. Uh-huh. LM: Was it after, well I didn' ; t know when-- WS: My mother and Ms. Lefflar (ph) I know. I can remember-- the volumes you see in the libraries. UI: Uh-huh WS: Dalcam (ph) EM: Your mother was very active in everything. She helped a lot to build Bristow beginning and-- WS: Well it' ; s a wonder with five children that she had the-- (Laughter) EM: Well yes! And believe me, they weren' ; t just children, they were busy bodies. Those twins (Chuckling). I went there to-- George McMillian (ph) was having a demonstration of this new kind of washer. You know the kind that kind of tipped forward and over a hump. I don' ; t know whether you remember it or not. And they couldn' ; t-- you couldn' ; t step one way or the other without stepping on one of those twins. (Laughter) EM: They were the busiest little boys, but they were good. They weren' ; t bad at all, but oh they were busy. I will never forget ' ; em. NF: Well did George McMillian (ph) have a store? EM: No. NF: He was just demonstrating? EM: He wanted to-- he could get a free-- NF: Machine? EM: --washing machine, by selling so many. NF: Oh I see! EM: So he had a demonstration. LM: He had that in the old days too! NF: Well (Chuckling) EM: George (ph) didn' ; t enter in to very many things like that. I was just surprised, but he was-- WS: But I can recall that with ones in our family, that he' ; d order through a catalog. I think it was Carson Pirie Scott from Chicago, and these things would come in. Rugs and different pieces of furniture and things of that sort! EM: Oh! He ordered more than washing machines and-- WS: I guess so! Mm-hmm. EM: Well I never-- WS: From that catalog. (Laughter) EM: I expect for a lot of the relatives he was-- I didn' ; t know there was anything besides washing machines, but they were good machines! NF: Well what did George (ph)-- what did George (ph) do? You know his occupation. WS: He was in the oil business too. NF: He was in the oil business. WS: Mm-hmm. NF: Uh-huh. Well I guess-- EM: He started with the Jones (ph)-- NF: Oh. EM: I don' ; t know whether he ended up independently or not, but he was with the Jones (ph) a long time wasn' ; t he? WS: Yes, the Jones' ; s (ph) had the Burmont (ph) oil company. EM: Yes. WS: And then there was the JoMac (ph) which was Jones (ph) and McMillian (ph) you see. EM: That' ; s right. NF: Mm-hmm. WS: At Mr. McMillian. NF: Well about what time did all this oil business come to a head? Now when your husband came in 1890 there was no oil business, was there? EM: 1916 I would say-- NF: 1916. EM: --was when it come to a head. That is when we got our first oil well. NF: Uh-huh. EM: And there were quite a few strikes east of town at that time too. I think 1916 was our first oil well out there on the home place. And it was pretty good one. Pretty good one. LM: Still is. (Laughter) EM: We had two. How many did we have on that one location? LM: I don' ; t know, there' ; s one of ' ; em still pumping though. (Inaudible) NF: Well. EM: Yes, this was a busy place. LM: Did-- EM: I recall this logging camp down here on the Old Skinner Barn it was called. Was the headquarters for the oil field hauling. And was located at Fourth and Washington Street that' ; s down here. This was before the trucks took over. Trucks were unknown. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Just horses. Horses then were the only means of transportation and another location was this block right here. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: Two-- two locations. Two different companies. NF: Well. Well I expect the people really poured into this part of the country during those years didn' ; t they? EM: (Chuckling) I wouldn' ; t take a thousand dollars for this picture. This is a street scene in Bristow and it was before my time. This was when the old dirt road went through Bristow and the cotton wagons drove in and people that wanted to buy cotton crawled up on the wagons and bid on-- NF: Oh. EM: (Indecipherable) look one way and load. NF: Now is this the-- that' ; s-- that building-- that' ; s the Safeway-- old Safeway parking lot now isn' ; t it? Looks to me like-- EM: That' ; s-- isn' ; t that the American National Bank building? NF: Well. LM: One of them is still (Inaudible) EM: I thought it was, but I may be wrong. NF: Something back, it could be the old American Nat-- this could be the American National Bank. LM: That would be across the street from where the parking-- NF: Yeah. The-- yes-- cattycorner. That' ; s a good picture. EM: This was a-- where was this? LM: This is a later date. That' ; s Bristow. EM: Huh? LM: That was Bristow. You found Ernest was in that. EM: Ernest was in that. That was a little parade that they-- LM: That' ; s a later date in Bristow. EM: I didn' ; t-- I wasn' ; t (Inaudible) NF: Down the Main Street? EM: --Bristow now. NF: Yeah. EM: Here' ; s a sweet picture. That' ; s Jack Abraham. He was one of my pets, but people didn' ; t know it. (Laughter) NF: Oh, isn' ; t he cute! LM: That' ; s the one that brought the apple everyday wasn' ; t it? EM: Huh? LM: He was the one that brought the apple to the teacher. EM: He brought an apple every day. NF: Ah! EM: Everyday an apple. NF: (Indecipherable) EM: He was a darling student. He wasn' ; t spoiled! He didn' ; t-- he scarcely ever do anything wrong. Jack was ideal. NF: Well. Well, he' ; s a cute little boy. I had a little Thompson (ph) last year that looks an awful lot like him. She' ; d be a great niece. She' ; s-- EM: Oh. NF: She' ; s-- her daddy lives down in this Spanish style house down here. What' ; s that Abraham-- LM: Gene (ph)? Gene Thompson (ph)? Oh, Herby (ph). NF: Herby! She' ; s Herby' ; s granddaughter. LM: Karen (ph) NF: She' ; s Carolyn-- she' ; s Carolyn' ; s (ph) daughter. She looks a lot like this. Has the same expression in her eyes. EM: Well on an old hot day not very long ago, Carolyn (ph) drove up to the door with a dish of ice cream. (Laughter) EM: It was such a hot day! NF: Oh! Who' ; s this handsome man? LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Let' ; s see I can' ; t-- EM: I don' ; t know them but they (indecipherable) LM: Yes. EM: Can you read it? LM: This came to me from this (Indecipherable) girl. Her sister, Mrs. Mcclendon no? EM: It' ; s an old, old picture. LM: It was, he was-- oh, let me get my glasses. He was a editor of the early newspaper here in Bristow. NF: Oh I see! Eden (ph) Orval Eden (ph) I think. Orval Eden (ph). Does that sound right? LM: Something. I don' ; t know. This is Mrs. Dye sent these to me. Viola Dye, that used to be here years ago. She used to teach school about the time I-- Orval Eden-- editor of the Bristow enterprise or possibly The Record, in Bristow Indian Territory. The year of 1905. He married a Ruth Appleview (ph) of Bristow, Oklahoma. This picture may possibly be of interest to the local Bristow Historical Society. NF: Well, it will be! (Inaudible) NF: A number of times in the history at the library. But I hadn' ; t known that she was the sister to Mrs. Abraham (ph) EM: Yes. Mm-hmm. NF: Did-- now did Lucy West have a husband and children? EM: She was a maiden. NF: She was a maiden (indecipherable). WS: Well I seen that name Lucy West but I didn' ; t realize who-- the relationship before but I never can recall that (Indecipherable) Abraham (ph) was a West. EM: She was a very good teacher but a very strict one. She was very good to tell me. LM: You need to tell them that dad used to run the Pony Express to Phillipsburg. NF: Oh really! EM: What? LM: He used to run that Pony Express from Phillipsburg. EM: Oh. NF: Pony Express. EM: Ethan did, yes. He rode the Pony Express for years to Phillipsburg. There was no Slick then and very few people know about Phillipsburg. NF: Arthur was telling us yesterday lunch that there was a Phillipsburg and was the other Robertsburg (ph)? He gave about three or four community names that I have never hear of. EM: Well the mail-- Ethan took the mail just to Phillipsburg. NF: To Phillipsburg, and that was near Slick? EM: Yes. LM: About a mile and a half west of Slick, but they say the foundations are still out there. NF: Oh. LM: Mr. Holcomb (ph) says he knows exactly where it is-- NF: I see. LM: --mother had been there but she forgot about it. NF: You know, probably somebody should check on those-- on that. EM: Somebody should write a history of Bristow and some of those things. LM: I' ; ve got this book. The Ghost towns of Oklahoma' ; s. Slicks a ghost town and Shamrocks a ghost town. EM: There should be records of ' ; em down here at the Post office, you know? If Phillipsburg-- NF: Oh well they' ; re not ghost towns. EM: Ethan rode the Pony Express there. LM: But he didn' ; t have the (Indecipherable) WS: Where did he come from, Chandler or Sac and Fox? EM: He came from Chandler. WS: From Chandler to Phillipsburg. EM: Yes. LM: He came from-- there is a Sac and Fox agency-- NF: That was his run. LM: There is a Sac and Fox agency just north of Chandler. There is also the big one down here north of-- west of-- south of Stroud. NF: Uh-huh. LM: But there was a little one north of Chandler. WS: And that' ; s the one, huh? NF: And he rode from north of Chandler to-- LM: So far as we know. NF: Uh-huh. LM: He just gave the Sac and Fox agency. NF: Uh-huh. LM: But if you go that little road that goes from Chandler straight north to Stillwater-- NF: Yeah. LM: You run onto where that old Sac and Fox-- one Sac and Fox agency was. NF: Oh! Uh-huh. LM: They used to have a sign there. I used to (Indecipherable) His father had kind of a livery stable didn' ; t he? Or he rented out horses and things. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And of course-- EM: That' ; s at Chandler. LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Mm-hmm. LM: But that was before he came here to stay. He was just about fourteen years or something. EM: The livery stables were long before (Chuckling) the automobiles. NF: Uh-huh. WS: There was plenty of wild game too in that time. EM: Oh yes! WS: You outta see, talk about the turkeys and the deer and oh, they just must have been so much. EM: The deer would come up to the door for salt and you just felt guilty capturing them when they were so tame. NF: Uh- huh. EM: And the wild turkeys-- LM: (Inaudible) EM: Oh (Chuckling) an explosion! NF: Okay. EM: They' ; ve been blasting. I' ; ve heard at the noon hour. NF: Hmm. EM: Yes, those wild turkeys, you could just go out and sit out any night and make the trees and just choose whatever bird you wanted. NF: Now the buffalo had-- if there had ever been here, were long gone weren' ; t they-- by that time. EM: Yes. NF: And the Indians were not the wild west kind, they were-- EM: No, they were-- NF: --quite civilized. EM: There were no atrocities-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --whatsoever that-- you didn' ; t think there was any, they were quite civilized NF: I noticed in the paper-- in looking through those old papers, it talked about the Snake Indian-- Indian Uprising. That they were afraid the Snake Indians are gonna come in through here and how they put guards around different places. Now that was probably around 1900 I think or 19-- EM: Ethan didn' ; t know anything about that-- NF: Well that was in Clad Purdy' ; s (ph) history, come to think of it. EM: Oh I see, way back. NF: Yeah, way back. Uh-huh. And I think it' ; s before he came probably. Before they came. Probably was heresy. EM: He said that all of the Indians were very friendly. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Very-- and very honest to deal with. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Of course they loved their costume jewelry. You could do almost anything with a bracelet or a ring-- NF: Yeah. EM: All the-- he could tell the most interesting things in those early days. My-- I should' ; ve written them all down, but you know how you-- NF: Time goes fast. EM: And he was really ill when he had time to talk those things and I didn' ; t want him to talk too long. NF: Uh-huh. WS: And did you always live in town? Or did you live out on the ranch? EM: We lived across the street. WS: Oh across the street. EM: Yes. WS: Uh-huh. EM: Ethan' ; s first wife and family lived out there on what we call the Home Place. WS: Mm-hmm. LM: It' ; s where Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph) live-- were living now. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Just a little bit south of-- NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. LM: That' ; s where I was born and Ernest was born. EM: They still have the old Home Place, but they' ; ve built a new-- Mr. Jackson (ph) built a new house for the-- what' ; s their names? LM: Anna (ph) and Sonny Davis (ph). NF: Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph)-- and they didn' ; t save the old house? LM: Yes, it' ; s there. NF: It' ; s still there? LM: I was looking for pictures-- EM: Yes! LM: --the other night. We don' ; t even have a picture of that. I had a picture of the old Mills Chapel Schoolhouse-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --before they built the new one. But I don' ; t have any of the other-- the old place. WS: Can you recall living out there? LM: Oh I was just four years old-- WS: Four years old. LM: When they were married. Mother and dad were married. EM: Yes. She was just a baby when Ethan and I were married. LM: We went to live with my aunt in town-- our Aunt Ella (ph) my father' ; s sister. My brother was seven and I was four. NF: Uh-huh. LM: When we came back here. NF: Well. EM: Ernest said that he-- he told me that all he could remember of his mother-- first mother, he always said first mother-- was that he-- let' ; s see, he cut his finger, thumb or something and she came and bandaged it for him. NF: Oh. EM: And he remembered that incident. NF: Uh-huh. EM: She hurried out and covered that. LM: (Inaudible) EM: But that' ; s all he could remember-- anything at all. Of course Lucy Mae was quite young. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: Too young to remember much. WS: So you' ; ve always lived right here in this little (indecipherable) then haven' ; t you? EM: Yes. WS: And as far as you know-- LM: It' ; s just (Indecipherable) the city limits. EM: We-- LM: We had that big field over there. The high school used to (Inaudible) NF: Oh it did, you mean in this whole block down here? LM: This was all our pasture and field and barn and everything over there. EM: There was ten acres over there and Ethan said to me one day, " ; If you want to sell this off in lots-- if you want to bother with it, then we' ; ll build a home over on these two and a half acres that I had bought." ; And of course, you know me, I got busy. (Chuckling) And we sold that off in lots and sold plenty too. And I remember he got excited and he ordered three carloads of brick (Chuckling) I mean train-- trainloads! Flat cars, three of em' ; and so those brick that are over there at Claude Freeland' ; s. He just gave Claude the balance of brick that was left. NF: Oh my! EM: They made the swimming pool. (Laughter) EM: Or it helped them make it. NF: Well they went through a period that they certainly built houses well-- EM: Yes. NF: --here in Bristow. Who built yours? Do you remember? EM: Yes, Mr. Owens (ph) was the main man. He was real-- let' ; s see he did most of it, yes. Mr. Owens, I forgot his initial, but he was killed an accident-- a car accident shortly afterwards. Mr. Martin finished, Leonard Martin. NF: Mr. Leonard, yes. Uh-huh. EM: Finished the job. NF: Uh-huh. LM: L.L Curl (Indecipherable) EM: Let' ; s see, this fellow was killed before and Mr. Martin did the rest of the work. Mr. Martin was a wonderful builder. WS: Yes. EM: If he hadn' ; t of gotten ahold (Chuckling) of this house when he did, I' ; m afraid there would' ; ve been a disaster because the fellow in charge was just trying. LM: That was that L.L. Curl (ph) wasn' ; t it? EM: Hmm? LM: That was that L.L. Curl (ph), you had trouble with-- EM: Curl. C-U-R-L. Yes. C-U-R-L. LM: He was working under this other guy-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --that was killed. WS: Mr. Martin built our house in ' ; 40 and ' ; 41 and possibly was the last one that he built. EM: You have a good house. WS: Yes. LM: This was started during the Depression. You started before the Depression. You had to end it. She was asking you a while ago about the Depression. Don' ; t you remember, you had trouble getting things for a while. EM: Yes. LM: Because of-- NF: Oh really! EM: Lots of trouble. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Right after-- right around first World War. Just-- they started before that-- NF: Uh-huh. Yeah. LM: --and then were still building. NF: Well. EM: Mr. Martin built quite a few houses here in Bristow. I never kept tab on them-- NF: Yes. EM: --quite a few. They were all well-built. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: I always said a person should be proud of any house that was built. But Mr. Martin-- they had something, a prize. NF: That' ; s right, something that would last. Something beautiful. WS: Well ours was in ' ; 40 and ' ; 41 when we were you know going into the World War II. NF: Uh-huh. WS: So things were hard to obtain too. It held us up toward the last, you know waiting for certain things to come in. NF: Was yours about the last big home that he built in Bristow? WS: I believe so. LM: I believe it was too. WS: And-- EM: About the last that Mr. Martin built. WS: Yes. EM: I think so. WS: And the only one built right in that period, and then you know Bristow went for quite a long time before we needed more homes here in town. NF: Well now did Mr. Martin build the Ekdahl house and the McMillian house over on-- WS: I don' ; t believe so there was another man-- NF: He didn' ; t. Uh-huh. WS: Now he could' ; ve built one of em' ; I' ; m not sure. NF: Can you think of anytime in Bristow that there was a real exciting time? How about when the refinery caught on fire. Do you remember that? EM: Yes, I remember. But there wasn' ; t-- it didn' ; t seem to me like there was a terrible lot of excitement about it that I recall. EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE EM: The most exciting days were when the school building burned up here and when Eleanor Roosevelt came to town. (Laughter) EM: I think-- I think Eleanor' ; s visit was the most exciting. NF: Yeah. WS: Do you recall that wreck out there close to Heyburn? Two trains, you see. EM: Oh railroad. WS: Railroad wreck. EM: I don' ; t recall. LM: I don' ; t think I remember much about (Indecipherable) NF: We' ; ve never had a bad storm have we? Where it' ; s destroyed the town? EM: Well, I was visiting at my sisters, when we had our small cyclone that struck out near Mills Chapel. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Lucy Mae was here. LM: That was just a few years ago. NF: Was that the one that happened about twenty years ago that blew away the little pink church down on the road south and killed a couple of negro men? If I remember right. EM: I think that' ; s right. LM: Tore up trees-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --and buildings and everything south of here. NF: I guess that is the worst storm. LM: That' ; s the only one I know of. NF: Uh-huh. LM: My father was living here when they had the bad storm at Chandler, and he didn' ; t hear about it for two or three days. And he loaded up his wagon with supplies-- EM: (Laughter) LM: --and things and then went on down there. EM: Food of all kinds (Chuckling). NF: Well. LM: It was two or three days after it happened before the word got back. NF: Uh-huh. LM: That was when he was batching out in the country. NF: Uh-huh. LM: That' ; s when they had that cyclone in Chandler. My grandmother' ; s house was blown over the hill there-- NF: Well. LM: --and destroyed. Destroyed all of her pretty dishes. EM: I was in Kansas when that storm came to Bristow. LM: That hadn' ; t been very long ago. That' ; s when you' ; re talking about that little pink church was destroyed out there, mother. NF: Yes, I remember. Uh-huh. LM: When the little pink church was destroyed out there. Well, Nellie said she had one brick in you know? EM: Oh, yes! Yes. NF: Well that little-- pink church has been built back and it' ; still just as pink-- LM: That' ; s what she' ; s saying. She gave a dollar, so that was her brick. Nellie West. EM: Nellie didn' ; t have much money to do with, but she was pretty hearted and every time we' ; d go by, she' ; d say, " ; There' ; s my dollar." ; (Laughter) EM: She got a lot of joy out of that dollar and that was-- it was really a sacrifice-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --for her to give. Beside what she gave to her church here. NF: Yeah. Well don' ; t you feel like we are going into a new period of growth here? It seems to me that Bristow at one time grew very rapidly and then after the Depression it coasted along and has for years and stayed about the same size. EM: Well I' ; m wondering if we are picking up. I' ; m just wondering about it. I don' ; t see much indication, do you? NF: Well when you ride out in the country, there' ; s a trailer under every oak tree (chuckling) EM: Oh, I see! (Laughter) WS: So many out in the country and then their group of houses close to the railroad over on the west side and then the ones that are over here that have been put up. NF: Well its-- its grown. I' ; ve been here forty-three years-- EM: out in that McAlister area that they' ; re building, I don' ; t know anything about it. I haven' ; t been out there. LM: Where Miss Sneed (ph) used to have those places out there. EM: That was Sneed ( Indecipherable) LM: EM: I don' ; t know. NF: Down near the football field, in that area? LM: No, it' ; s the one out west of town where-- EM: Indecipherable NF: Oh, Glen Acres. LM: Glen Acres. LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Uh-huh. LM: There are lots of houses every way you go. Everybody seems to be moving to the country. That is disturbing to me rather than fixing up the places in town. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And we were talking the other day about this railroad. Gosh when I went to school, you could get out of town on the railroad or bus. There was lots of way to go, and now days you can' ; t get out of town except you (indecipherable) NF: Well I think the bus still runs, but it runs under protest. They-- LM: It runs every four hours. NF: Oh does it? LM: You used to go to Oklahoma City and come back in one day or you could go to Tulsa and come back in one day. Can you now? NF: No, you can' ; t go any place on the railroad. LM: Bus either, I mean. NF: And I don' ; t know about the bus. But half the town takes off for Tulsa every day. EM: During the Depression in the Depression days, you couldn' ; t-- I guess you' ; d call that Depression days, you couldn' ; t get flour. Couldn' ; t get whole-- whole-- or white flour. WS: Yes. EM: And my-- Ethan' ; s mother would-- she baked a lot and she wouldn' ; t use that new kind of flour at all. So I loaded up a fifty-pound sack, put it in a gunny sack, and boarded the train and took her a sack of flour (chuckling) NF: Oh! EM: But was she happy. She was really happy. LM: To Chandler. EM: Chandler, yes. NF: Yeah. WS: That was hard for us to get accustomed to, I recall-- EM: Oh! WS: --you took flour you know because-- EM: You recall. WS: Yes. EM: Those were pinchy days. We didn' ; t bake. We quit baking much of anything. Biscuits, white loaves, (Indecipherable WS: We certainly did use the corn mill then didn' ; t we? EM: Didn' ; t we though? WS: Because back when (Indecipherable) you see on long distances. Especially if things had to go far or anything like that. EM: You know that (indecipherable) is really good if you learn to make it right. Really good bread. NF: Oh, that was a bread then. I thought it was maybe something like a hominy or something. EM: Well, it was a soft bread. NF: More like a mush or a porridge? EM: No, we baked our (indecipherable) in a big pan. NF: And made it more like cornbread then. EM: And we could lift out a piece about that size-- NF: Well. Uh-huh. EM: It was good. Real sweet. LM: They used to pick wild fruits and put ' ; em down in-- EM: Do what? LM: They used to dry their wild-- I mean their wild fruits. They used to dry them on boards on top of their house too didn' ; t they? NF: Grapes. Would it be grapes and dried fruits. LM: Different dried fruits and they' ; d dry them up on-- EM: I guess I' ; m getting hard of hearing. LM: I know you can' ; t hear (indecipherable) They used to dry their things up on-- corn and wild things up on top of their house. EM: Yes, yes. Lots of that. LM: (Indecipherable) EM: We did a little of that over there. LM: But they did that when he was all together when he was young you' ; d get your wild grapes. And what they had apples around here too didn' ; t they? He said. What were the fruits that they had around in here? When dad first came here. And I think they put some down in big crocks didn' ; t they? EM: Well they made a lot of preserves in crocks. Lots of them. You remember these-- you might not. These old crocks. They were about so big around and they came up to gradually. When they got so high, then they came in gradually and there was a top with a-- NF: Oh a smaller opening. EM: Yes, with a smaller-- do you ever remember seeing any of those? NF: Yeah. EM: Your grandmother should have had some of them. NF: Yeah. EM: And they did a lot of their canning in those preserves especially. Watermelon preserves that we cut the watermelon in pieces about that long and about that wide. And make preserves really good. NF: Well I' ; m sure they ate well and they didn' ; t worry about calories. (Laughter) EM: I don' ; t think they ever heard of calories. (Laughter) EM: They sure didn' ; t worry about them. NF: Well about their clothing now, did women made most of their own clothing in those days? They didn' ; t buy readymade dresses and-- EM: No. They didn' ; t. They didn' ; t have very many for sale in small towns. In large cities I suppose they had plenty. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But they didn' ; t have very many small towns. NF: Did you have a town dress maker or did everybody sew for herself. EM: (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph) was the town dress maker and she-- people who wanted good things went to (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph). NF: Well now, this is before she worked in the post office? EM: Yes. NF: I just supposed she' ; d been always worked in the post office. Well. EM: No for years-- LM: She used to have a shop up there in the old stone building. EM: She made all of Lucy Mae' ; s clothes for years. LM: I still have the top to a real pretty white wool. Had an accordion pleated skirt that was an old white wool, had the fine lace all around. NF: Oh. LM: (Indecipherable) dress. I was looking at a picture with that on last night. But I still got the top I didn' ; t save the-- NF: Well. LM: --the accordion pleat, I was just about eight or nine years old. NF: Now what about Mrs. Klingensmith (ph)? When I came to town she was sewing for people. EM: Yes, she-- she was-- she did good work. LM: She made the hats. NF: Oh, she did. EM: Mainly hats, that' ; s right. NF: Well. LM: She had a regular hat shop downtown. She used to make lots of our hats. NF: Well could you buy women' ; s shoes here at that time? EM: Mr. Jackson (ph) was the first person to-- that I recall Ethan ordered (Indecipherable) from him. NF: Yeah. EM: And finally, he took orders for women' ; s shoes, and eventually carried. NF: I see. EM: Then Cats (ph) came to town. NF: Uh-huh and Cats (ph) had nice, nice things. EM: Everything was good quality. NF: Uh-huh. LM: We used to go to Oklahoma City a lot to shop, didn' ; t we? EM: Oh yes. LM: I remember Beaver Hat you got me in Oklahoma City when I was just a kid. EM: We' ; ve been to Oklahoma City practically all together. We didn' ; t shop in Tulsa for years. LM: The train went down. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Train connections were pretty quite good. NF: And then what would you do when you got to the station in Oklahoma City? You took a cab? EM: Yes. NF: A taxi cab up town? EM: Mm-hmm. NF: Yeah. And then you managed to come back the same evening? EM: We could late in the evening. LM: The train station-- train was just a little ways from town-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --the old station. NF: Uh-huh. LM: It was right-- no. I think it stopped almost on Main Street there. You could almost watch-- NF: That' ; s right because it still does. It comes right across-- WS: (Indecipherable talking in background). -- close to the Hookens (ph) hotel-- NF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. LM: (Indecipherable talking in background) WS: --if you stayed all night, you stayed at the Hookens (ph). NF: Yeah. LM: Cause you could practically walk on that town after you got there. NF: Well. LM: I remember one time I was a little kid, and mother had gone on to town for something and I was to meet her down (Indecipherable) we was going on the train and I didn' ; t wear any hat. And even little kids wore hats in those days (Chuckling). She was so (Indecipherable) cause I was going to Oklahoma City and didn' ; t have my hat. (Laughter) NF: Well I remember the first teachers meeting I went to. We went to Tulsa on the train. EM: You did? The first teachers meeting was in Tulsa? NF: Well after I started teaching-- yeah. EM: (Indecipherable talking in background) LM: After she started teaching-- NF: Uh-huh. Thirty-one years ago. The first time-- EM: Oh! NF: --the first state teachers meeting happened to be in Tulsa that year, and we went up on the train. EM: Oh. Old timers. NF: Uh-huh. (Chuckling) LM: When I went to school I went on the train to Chicago and to Chicago changed over to-- to Madison. NF: Where did you go, Lucy Mae? LM: Wisconsin. NF: Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin. LM: Yeah. NF: Well. Now you-- LM: And I came back one year from Madison, came through Kansas City and trains were late, it was Christmas. And some old (indecipherable) you know how hopeful they used to be. He-- as I came in there, he said, " ; What train are you going on? And I said, " ; I' ; m going-- had a reservation on the train going to Tulsa." ; He says, " ; It' ; s just about ready to leave. Come on, I' ; ll getcha on it." ; (Laughter) LM: He did, we just went across tracks and everywhere. I got on it! WS: As the rural people came down, at least your relatives and maybe some others to see you off too! It was quite the thing to go down to the train. EM: It makes me think of Ethan' ; s niece, Helen (ph) used to live with us. She taught (indecipherable) lessons here. And she would phone down and tell ' ; em that she' ; d be a little bit late, to hold the trains. (Laughter) EM: I used to get so (Indecipherable) I could throw a brick at her. (Laughter) EM: And sometimes they did. " ; I' ; ll be a little bit late, please hold the train." ; (Laughter) WS: The trains you see just had to stop in Bristow to get water. EM: Yes. WS: Our water was considered ; you know so much better than these other towns. NF: Oh. WS: Yes, so trains stopped for us. NF: Oh! WS: Here when the-- EM: The water was-- they had soft water wells here I think for the railroad, didn' ; t they? Weren' ; t they more soft than usual? NF: Well I know Bristow water is comparatively soft. It' ; s-- we have-- we have good water. EM: Mm-hm. NF: Yeah. EM: It' ; s not real hard. NF: Uh-uh. EM: That is like some that-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --you used to just scum (indecipherable) NF: Yes. EM: --and pull the lime off. (indecipherable) Skim it off. LM: I noticed in the paper they were talking about those Junior Colleges. The Junior College that was had here in Bristow. You remember when we had that ' ; 28 reunion? NF: Uh-huh. LM: This boy asked how many of those had gone. It started in ' ; 29, you know. How many of those had gone to those Bristow Junior College and there will a big bunch that held up their hands if you need any, I have the addresses to most of that group that will be here. NF: Oh. LM: And then (Indecipherable) Fox (ph) sat next to me. I remember she held up her hand. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And-- NF: Well that' ; s good to know. LM: If they can' ; t get-- NF: (Indecipherable) Now according to paper, it sounds as though they had Junior College a couple of years, and then didn' ; t have it, and then had it again. Is that right? Or was that wrong? LM: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t recall. I went-- I didn' ; t stay here that year, I went up to Belmont. But they had-- that was the first time they ever had it-- NF: Mm-hmm. LM: --in ' ; 29. NF: In ' ; 29. LM: And they were still-- they were having-- they had it also when I was teaching up here. That was I think the last group, because Ms. McCormick (ph) who was teaching with me had some college students. NF: Uh-huh. LM: I didn' ; t. The last year I taught I had some from A and-- from Oklahoma A& ; M that came over for observation. The state-- NF: Oh. LM: --for several weeks. But I didn' ; t teach in the Junior College. NF: Uh-huh. LM: (Indecipherable) the one that was connected here in Bristow. But they did have it then when I was teaching, ' ; cause I remember she had some classes. NF: Uh-huh. LM: College classes. But I don' ; t know too much about it. But I notice a lot of those kids held up their hand. NF: Well a whole group of that age group started here. LM: Mm-hmm. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And I noticed (Indecipherable) held up her hand so. And there were-- Oh! The boy that asked about it, not the (Indecipherable) boy, the other fellow, I think (Indecipherable) did go to, but there was-- well ten or twelve that night that held up their hands anyway. That they attended that first Junior College that Black (ph) started here. NF: Well I think we were blessed with having E.H. Black (ph) in charge of the schools here. I think he set a standard-- EM: He was a wonderful fellow. Some people didn' ; t like his-- because it was so strict in some ways. NF: Uh-huh. EM: That was good. NF: Uh-huh. Well he set standards that you can still see traces of ' ; em in our school system. EM: Yes! NF: It' ; s made us hold to standards that a lot of schools have given up. EM: Mm-hmm. WS: And of course, Ms. Black (ph) taught too, didn' ; t she in the schools. EM: Yes. WS: Yes. Everyone talking at once EM: And he had two or three little girls. I don' ; t know whether it' ; s two or three little girls. LM: Mr. Black, yes (Indecipherable) NF: Yes, he has two daughters. Two daughters. EM: I know there was two, but I wasn' ; t sure about the third. NF: Well I think the whole town had some advantages over similar towns, in that we had fine music teachers and people with high educational standards and demands for the schools to be done a certain way, don' ; t you think it made us have a better school system? WS: There was a Music Club here at one time. EM: Yes, a good Music Club at one time. NF: Uh-huh. EM: I didn' ; t belong to that. I' ; m not very music minded, but they had a real good club. NF: Well it' ; s kind of interesting to observe how students have turned out who' ; ve gone through Bristow schools. We lose track, we don' ; t really realize and something will drift in. Well for instance, this year we went to our grandson' ; s graduation from Med School and here on the program was this youngster who finished high school here about ten years ago and had gone in the Navy, and I' ; m sure was doing it through the Navy help, but here he was finishing Med School. The boy that-- what' ; s his name? I can' ; t even think of his name now. LM: I saw that in the paper. NF: Uh-huh. End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0020_Mills,_Edith_Lucy_Mae.xml OHP-0020_Mills,_Edith_Lucy_Mae.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
5100
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Edith and Lucy Mae Mills
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0020
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/34b8d069fcb872f38637216e1441da10.jpg
ee959c4d38d760437d4b334f59c631e9
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Ed Cadenhead
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Ellis Shamas
Pearl Stoker
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0045B_Ellis_Shamas.xml
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 June 20, 1979 OHP-0045B Ellis Shamas OHP-0045B 0:00-1:00:42 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Ellis Shamas Pearl Stoker Ed Cadenhead 1:|20(5)|33(6)|50(4)|63(4)|74(7)|84(9)|94(2)|105(7)|117(3)|127(9)|140(3)|152(10)|172(2)|183(13)|198(11)|211(5)|230(9)|241(12)|263(1)|273(8)|285(3)|300(11)|314(5)|338(10)|362(9)|405(12)|414(6)|424(5)|435(16)|458(13)|484(4)|507(5)|524(2)|538(13)|546(9)|563(2)|578(2)|585(2)|598(13)|605(7)|615(5)|628(1)|643(4)|655(11)|670(3)|681(7)|695(8)|705(6)|714(2)|725(1)|731(12)|738(7)|747(3)|761(7)|779(6)|790(15)|807(4)|814(1)|827(4)|836(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0045B Shamas, Ellis.mp3 Other audio 4 Family & ; Other Lebanese Families EC: Ellis Shamas, June 20th, 1979. Why don't you just start and tell me about your own family and how they ended up in Bristow and that'll lead us, I think, into some of these other families, Lebanese families. ES: To the best of my knowledge, my mother (Amalen Mehael Asad) came here in 1905 with a brother, Frank Mike. He had been here and returned to what was then Syria, today is Lebanon, to marry, and when he brought his bride, he also brought my mother, his sister, with him. EC: Well, well, I understand that many of the Lebanese families have a common name, Feghali somehow. The name Feghali is a name where... ES: That's a section of the country are in what we would term here as tribes. They follow a common ancestry from, no telling, how far back. This becomes the family name. Each son takes his last name, his father's first name. Ellis talks about his mother and uncle coming from Syria, family names and Joe and Ed Abraham. Amalen Mehael Asad ; Ed Abraham ; Frank Mike ; Joe Abraham ; Lebanese ; Lebanon ; Syria Ellis Shamas family ; Lebanese families 339 Clarke's Clothing & ; Haggar Slacks EC: Jumping around a little bit before I forget. It's true that Clarke started in Bristow, the Clarke's clothing store? ES: A.L. And Harry Clarke had a store here, probably, it was early as, I would say, 1921, 1922. I'm not sure of the year. They were located then about, I'd say, maybe on 120, maybe not that far on North Main. They moved across the street into a building that now is a vacant car lot. They were next door to where our bank was, American National Bank. They also, I think, opened a store in Cushing at that time. As best I know, Harry moved to Tulsa and bought out, I think, S& ; Q Clothiers (ph). I'm not positive of the [indecipherable], but that seems like the name. So this would've been possibly 1931, 1932. In the early thirties, Harry stayed in Bristow, and operated the store until, oh, I would say early fifties, store burned at that time, and he didn't go back into the business. AL Clarke ; Alex Wasaff ; Bill Haggar ; Clarke's Clothing ; Haggar Apparel Company ; Harry Clarke ; Joe Abraham ; Joe Haggar ; Saab Elias Clarke's Clothing ; Haggar slacks 603 Catholic Lebanese EC: I was asking your wife before you came in, I'd realized that most of the Lebanese were Catholic, and she said, yes, except you were not, and it wasn't unusual for the Lebanese who came here to be non-Catholic. Is that a, I don't know that much about Lebanon. ES: But [indecipherable] of course had a good many, that was the basis of most of the religions, absolutely. There was a Greek Catholic, which was a different church entirely from the Roman Catholic. They had their own bishop, their own priest. The village my father came from was primarily Greek Catholic. Mother came from, was primarily Roman Catholic, so there wasn't a Greek church, Greek Orthodox, I think, is the way they listed even yet. So my mother and my sisters and my younger brothers were brought up in a Catholic church. My father took me to the Christian Church. Many of the Lebanese settlers were Catholic, but Ellis' father took him to a Christian church. Catholic ; Christian ; Greek Orthodox ; Lebanese ; Roman Catholic Catholic Lebanese 668 Anti-Catholicism EC: This probably isn't an easy question for you to answer, but I have read that there was a lot of anti-Catholicism in Bristow and this came from one of the local Catholics. And I wonder, how much of what she thought was anti-Catholicism was anti-Lebanese or how much of what may have been appeared to be anti-Lebanese was anti-Catholic. Were you aware of any prejudices in growing up here in Bristow? ES: There was a lot of anti, all over the country. There was a lot of anti-WAFs (ph), a lot of anti-Shiites (ph), a lot of Jews, Yehudis couldn't go to a lot of places at one time. This was quite typical of that day and time, and this wasn't any different. Ellis talks about their being a lot of " ; anti" ; in the world at that time, whether it was anti-Jew, anti-Indian or anti-Lebanese, often people with common backgrounds would fall into their own groups. anti-catholicism ; prejudice anti-catholicism 751 World War I EC: Then your earliest memories of Bristow really would be, well, perhaps World War I might have been, but it was happening. But you really wasn't as gone much until the oil boom day. ES: So my earliest memories of World War I is, I don't know what they were called at that time, home guards probably, but young men would get out and drill, getting ready for whatever may come. And I do remember going to the railroad station, [indecipherable] neighbor going into the service. And this would have been like 1917 as best I can place a year. Ellis recalls " ; home guards" ; that were young men who would drill and be prepared for whatever may come. WWI WWI 790 Oil Boom EC: Since you were just a young child, were you conscious of the oil boom in Bristow? ES: Very much so, because, it was a very small town until the time the oil boom and people flocked in, took up every available place that they could live, sleep, eat, and it became an entirely different town from a small cotton country town. It became a town of people from New York, Pennsylvania, and other sections where they'd had oil previous to the oil boom here. And they were young people that came in, mostly without their families. Ellis remembers many people flocking to Bristow during the oil boom, going from a small, country town to having people from all over like New York and Pennsylvania. They would work in the oil fields then come back to town to find entertainment. curfew ; entertainment ; oil boom ; peace officers oil boom 991 Halloween & ; Sports ES: Halloween was one of the big things, and even the adults in those days enjoyed holidays. The Main Street would have almost as many adults and costumes as it would have young people. And of course, young people were permitted more leeway than they are today. This was a town with a lot of outhouses and like a lot of other towns, these outhouses suffered quite considerably. There was a lot of other things that went on, but it was quite common to soak windows and soak everything of this nature. I don't think the destruction was quite as expensive as today's destruction could be. The day and time, then, was only athletic activities took place in the afternoons. The football fields weren't lighted, the baseball fields weren't lighted, so when there was a football or a baseball game in town, the stores would close. It was that kind of game, and everybody would go to the football game. Ellis recalls Halloween being a big deal in Bristow with children and adults getting involved in the festivities. He also remembers how the town would shut down for things like football games. football ; Halloween ; Judge John Humphrey ; outhouses ; sports Halloween ; sports 1102 The Depression EC: Yes. Were there any special effects of the Depression on Bristow? Sometimes I have the feeling that small towns maybe didn't suffer as much as cities or maybe more, in other words, what strikes you from this distance about the effect of the Depression on Bristow? ES: It had been technically an oil and cotton town. The price of oil dropped so that a lot of the companies couldn't produce it. They fired, of course, a lot of their employees, farmers themselves, weren't on the commercial scale that they are today. This, of course, is not a farm area now it's a [indecipherable] country, but families grew on, like, 40, 80, 120 off the top, large families, and when cotton cease to become commercial, these people were heavily mortgaged either to their suppliers of the stores or to the banks. And if they didn't lose their property to the banks or to the people they had borrowed from, they lost it in taxes. Cotton dropped down at the gin, something like 9 cents. This would convert to 3 cents in the field. They had to pay a cent and a half to have it picked so it wasn't commercial any longer. Ellis recalls the effects of The Depression on Bristow citizens and how many lost their jobs and how cotton lost it's value. cotton ; Joe Abraham ; The Depression The Depression 1268 Type of People in Bristow ES: that you're wanting but there was a lot of money around the town and the people that had the money were young, energetic, aggressive people. Naturally, you could tell this because they brought KVOO into a town this size whenever Tulsa didn't have anything to compare with it. They built a hotel here in town that was equal to almost anything there was in the area. And as things began to dwindle, these same people lost their money. Not particularly in the oil fields here, but they plunged in other areas for it. Particularly, you've probably been told the hotel here was named after the two partners that had done real well. Ellis remembers there being a lot of money in town, along with young, energetic aggressive people wanting to achieve success. Glen Freeland ; KVOO interesting people 1467 Pearl Stoker - Coming to Oklahoma EC: Well, why don't you just tell me, Mrs. Stoker first about your family. Where were they from and how'd they happen to end up in Bristow? PS: Well, my, my family's all gone except one sister. I have one sister alive and she's in North Carolina. She's my baby sister. EC: Well, were you born here in Bristow? PS: No, I was born in Kansas. EC: Whereabouts in Kansas? PS: Parker. EC: And did your parents move to Bristow? PS: Oh, they come to, and they, and then we have been here since I was seven years old. EC: What when was that? What year? PS: Oh, I don't remember. (Unknown Speaker) She's 89. Pearl remembers coming to Oklahoma and crossing the Verdigris River in a covered wagon when she was just seven-years-old. Campbell Oil Company ; farming ; Kansas ; Nowata ; Oklahoma ; sharecropper ; Verdigris River (Kan. and Okla.) ; wagon coming to Oklahoma 1777 Memories of Bristow EC: What are your memories of Bristow when you first came here? PS: Oh, I thought it was terrible. EC: Did you? PS: No, it was quite a permissible town and they part had parts, wooden sidewalks here, and I thought it was terrible. But my mother had come here. She never went down the main street of Nowata after my father was killed. And she came here, she had a little insurance and bought a place on the east part of town. Pearl recalls not being fond of Bristow when her family moved after her father was killed in an accident. Bristow ; memories Bristow memories 1823 Working for Ed Abraham PS: No, I went to work to make a living. EC: Where did you work? PS: I worked at Ed Abraham's store. And then Mr. Wolf, LM Wolf gave me more money and I went there. Mrs. (Nellie Gray Campbell) Abraham didn't want me to quit and she tried to get Ed to give me more money and he wouldn't do it because she and I were very good friends. So I went to LM Wolfe's store was there right south of the, what's that other bank? EC: Community. PS: Community State Bank now. Pearl remembers working for Ed Abraham until LM Wolfe offered her more money, then she began working for him. Community State Bank ; Ed Abraham ; LM Wolfe ; Nellie Gray Campbell Abraham work life 1863 Married Life EC: And when did you get married? PS: Oh, 1916. EC: Alright. Was your, had your husband been living in Bristow long? PS: Well, he was an oil field worker and he came here and drilled some wells and got dry holes. He drilled for [indecipherable], and they got dry holes at that time. But later he came back and then after we were married he went to Shamrock and that's when the Shamrock boom was on. It was about 19, 1915, the Shamrock boom. And then in 1916 we got married and we went to Ponca City. And he worked for Marvin (ph) as his driller. Pearl married Clifford H. Stoker in 1916 and her husband was an oil field worker. Clifford H. Stoker ; oil field worker ; Ponca City ; Shamrock married life 1920 Oil Boom & ; Titanic EC: And that was because of the oil boom here? Was that because of the oil boom here in Bristow? PS: Yes. And he knew everybody here and he Marvin (ph) had to, well he had kind of overextended himself and he took the wells down and gone back east to get more money and my husband come right down here and stepped in the [indecipherable]. EC: Were there any particular stories that your husband told you about the oil field here at Bristow? PS: No. EC: Anything you remember about who were the people who really made money out of the oil here in Bristow? PS: [Indecipherable] the old poor farm that the state had bought, the county was out on the old highway and one, and I had [indecipherable] and I went out to get my wood and it was covered in snakes and that, well, I come in out there and the wind [indecipherable] and my feet were covered. There were [indecipherable]. Right down. Well, it just had a big tank. That's about all I can remember of his particular things. So it went broke. Pearl remembers the town being crowded during the oil boom. She also recalls it was at that time the Titanic sank and she would read newspaper stories to about it to Ed Abraham. cotton ; cotton gin ; Ed Abraham ; Joe Abraham ; oil ; oil boom ; Titanic ; WWI oil boom 2327 Interesting People EC: Who were some of the more interesting people that you knew in Bristow? Who were some of the more interesting people in Bristow? PS: Well, I guess the Joneses had the First National Bank, so [indecipherable] this parking lot where, [indecipherable] LM and OD, LM was the old man and OD was his son and they ran the bank [indecipherable] first one of the boys and he was a doctor and Hooker Groom (ph) was the pastor of the Christian Church here. When Mr. Groom died shortly after I came here and he was a man, well respected. Wasn't anyone in this town, I don't think was what loved Mr. Groom on Old Man Groom for then they built that building across the street that what is now against our insurance building there, and it went broke and the person and their first statement [indecipherable] the corner of seventh and main by the American National. That's where [indecipherable] that is the Jones Bank. OD, I mean, M Jones, [indecipherable] BB Jones. They dropped their money from the Drumright oil fields. Some of the interesting people Pearl remembers: The Jones Family, F. Hooker Groom, and the Indians, Drumright ; F. Hooker Groom ; First National Bank ; Georgia ; Green Corn Dance ; Indians ; M Jones ; OD Jones interesting people 2600 The Banks EC: Well what, surely you've got some other vivid memories of something that happened in Bristow. Do you remember one of the bank robberies or do you remember any of that? PS: Yes, I remember that. We were having a big faith convention in the Baptist church and Mr. Endsley had a meat market. He was cooking a ham for it and his daughter and I had gone to [indecipherable], and taken the car and gone after this ham for dinner. And when we got back there at the American National Bank, you know, the big crowd there and we didn't know what was wrong. And she jumped out of the car to run to find out and the bank had just been robbed, but they, then they went [indecipherable] the bank and they said by that time they called out [indecipherable] coming out of the bank. And that was the end of them. [Indecipherable] was sheriff of this county and was for years. Pearl recalls witnessing a crowd of people right after American National Bank was robbed. American National Bank ; bank robbery ; Baptist Church banks 2715 Merchants Going Broke The cotton got kind of short and it seemed like to me the oil had made this town. It used to be a little and tiny out here, and when that oil went down to 10 cents a barrel, it blew up. People lost their jobs. People were just, people lost their homes. Jim Fogle, he told me, we sat one night and ate together. I had known him for years and I was, I went back to work for Penny and. We used sat down there and he was telling me Jim had a hard time when he was telling me they had oil on his face. And he said, I'm setting pretty. Well I saw, I knew the times that Jim Fogle went on the WPA [indecipherable] had two boys and a girl. One of his boys was being, was educated to be a doctor. Dr. (Charles T.) Schrader was his uncle, and Dr. Schrader was sending him to school and the other boy told was going to be a preacher and a Methodist. After Jim went broke, the Methodist sent Joe on to be a preacher. Pearl remembers when oil went to 10 cents a barrel and people were losing their jobs and homes and merchants were going broke. Dr. Charles T. Schrader ; Jim Fogle ; oil ; soup lines merchants going broke 2941 Dr. Charles T. Schrader EC: Tell something about Dr. Schrader. [Inaudible] PS: Oh, I don't know why I don't, we just thought he was a wonderful doctor that was old. He, oh I know, we hadn't been here very long. My mother's youngest girl, my sister was 10 years old, and after Papa was killed, well, she just didn't know where she was [indecipherable] home and about 1919 [indecipherable] she couldn't talk [indecipherable] inflammation of the stomach. Pearl remembers Dr. Schrader and Dr. King performing surgery on her sister. Dr. Charles T. Schrader ; Dr. W. E. King ; flu epidemic Dr. Charles T. Schrader 3183 Albert Kelly EC: What can you tell me about Albert Kelly? PS: Oh, well, Albert Kelly was an old [indecipherable] and he loved everybody and [indecipherable] built an apartment house and they wanted a hospital here so bad, but he couldn't get no help. So [indecipherable] on sixth street, on Main Street. So he [indecipherable] that and [indecipherable] it to a girl. I learned for a hospital. And me, my sister was offered [indecipherable] but that was several years later in that hospital. But he couldn't get no help. He wanted to get help, help build a hospital. Nobody seemed to be interested in it. EC: That was Dorcas (Kelly). That was Dorcas. Pearl remembers Albert Kelly being a wonderful man who wanted to build a hospital in Bristow. Albert Kelly ; American National Bank ; Dorcas B. Kelly ; Dr. Charles T. Schrader ; Jones Bank ; oil Albert Kelly 3527 Flu PS: Oh, my husband, he did work 12 hours a day and went to bed the other 12 hours. Now, when we lived in Ponca City, he never missed a day for two years. That was the [indecipherable] had eight strings of tools on him, and my husband never missed a day for two years until he come down with the flu and he almost died. Marvin (ph) was a wonderful man. He there was no hospital there at that time and he just signed a check and took it to the Catholic priest and said, get him to somebody. And they had a sister or mother superior or somebody [indecipherable] came down there to Ponca City. They were loaded bed and they put him in a basement of the Catholic Church, and they took to take care of 12, but people died like, and we all, my mother, my husband and I was all down at one time. Pearl recalls her husband, mother and herself all being down with the flu, but her husband almost died from it. Catholic Church ; Clifford T. Stoker ; flu ; Los Alamos ; Texas ; Tulsa ; Washington flu MP3 In this 1979 interview which includes Ellis Shamas and Pearl Stoker, Ellis talks about his family, Clarke’s clothing, the oil boom and WWI. Pearl Stoker tells about coming to Oklahoma, working for Ed Abraham, the banks, hard times and Dr. Schrader. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator' ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. EC: Ellis Shamas, June 20th, 1979. Why don' ; t you just start and tell me about your own family and how they ended up in Bristow and that' ; ll lead us, I think, into some of these other families, Lebanese families. ES: To the best of my knowledge, my mother (Amalen Mehael Asad) came here in 1905 with a brother, Frank Mike. He had been here and returned to what was then Syria, today is Lebanon, to marry, and when he brought his bride, he also brought my mother, his sister, with him. EC: Well, well, I understand that many of the Lebanese families have a common name, Feghali somehow. The name Feghali is a name where... ES: That' ; s a section of the country are in what we would term here as tribes. They follow a common ancestry from, no telling, how far back. This becomes the family name. Each son takes his last name, his father' ; s first name. EC: Oh, I see. ES: And in my mother' ; s case, her family name was Feghali in that country Feghali I don' ; t know how far back the ancestry goes, but the founder of the tribe was a person by the name of Eheli Feghali (ph). Her father' ; s name was Mehael in that country. And so she came over as Amalen Mehael. EC: Now as far as you are aware was Joe Abraham the first Lebanese to settle in Bristow? ES: The best of my knowledge, he came into Oklahoma with a pack on his back long before there were very many Lebanese in Oklahoma anywhere. EC: And he was joined by two brothers. ES: He, I think, first brought a brother, Ed Abraham over, and later on, a brother Useph Abraham came. The connection between my family and Ed Abraham was that my Uncle Frank, who came because Ed Abraham was here, was a partner with Ed Abraham in some kind of a business in a little village in Syria. EC: This was Frank Mike. ES: Frank Mike. He' ; s taken his name, they made Mike out of Mehael. This was the nearest of the English language would come to that name. EC: Your wife said there were 27 Lebanese families here at one time. Does that sound right? ES: I don' ; t really know the number of the families, but the oil boom brought a lot of cousins and uncles and aunts, the original, all Lebanese Syrians, I should call them, because that' ; s what they were called in those days, came because they weren' ; t doing too well in the villages where they were at, and each came to make his fortune and return. But the majority came, got married, started a family, and could never afford to return. EC: Right? Yeah. So that most of the Lebanese families in Bristow did have some family relationship? ES: The majority of the families came from two different villages. One of the villages, where Joe Abraham came from, was outside of Beirut, possibly 10 or 12 miles, as I understand, up in the mountains. This was [indecipherable] the village is still there. I don' ; t know how much it amounts to, I' ; ve never been there. The, most of the other families came from a village near what today is Israel. And that was, [indecipherable] and this is in the United Nations whatever it is that they' ; re holding there now. EC: Right. And then I believe your wife was saying that a couple of the families here that were not related, just the two we talked about, to make [indecipherable] were not related and maybe the Eliases were not? ES: The Eliases came from this village [indecipherable] outside of Beirut. But the villages there, apparently, were pretty close together. While the families knew each other, they didn' ; t have a...(pause) and relatives, cousins, uncles, whoever was here, would furnish the capital or would go to the bank and make arrangements for them to set up, not big businesses, maybe a pop stand, maybe a little grocery store somewhere. EC: Jumping around a little bit before I forget. It' ; s true that Clarke started in Bristow, the Clarke' ; s clothing store? ES: A.L. and Harry Clarke had a store here, probably, it was early as, I would say, 1921, 1922. I' ; m not sure of the year. They were located then about, I' ; d say, maybe on 120, maybe not that far on North Main. They moved across the street into a building that now is a vacant car lot. They were next door to where our bank was, American National Bank. They also, I think, opened a store in Cushing at that time. As best I know, Harry moved to Tulsa and bought out, I think, S& ; Q Clothiers (ph). I' ; m not positive of the [indecipherable], but that seems like the name. So this would' ; ve been possibly 1931, 1932. In the early thirties, Harry stayed in Bristow, and operated the store until, oh, I would say early fifties, store burned at that time, and he didn' ; t go back into the business. EC: Oh, what about, I' ; ve been told that the Haggar slack man started here. Did you know him? ES: Yes. Joe Haggar worked for a family by the name of Wasaff. He worked in a store. The store was located probably about 216, 17, 18. It' ; ll be on this side of the street, probably an even number, maybe like 218 North Main. I think a bakery is in the building now that Wasaff was in. His name was, as best I remember, Alex Wasaff. Joe Hagger was a clerk in the store. Married Wasaff' ; s daughter, started on the road selling pants. Got a chance during the depression to buy a few sewing machines in Dallas, and I believe, that location was on Commerce. I don' ; t recall exactly what block it would' ; ve been in, but the war was beginning to come on in Europe and he began to get a good many contracts like with the government, JC Penney, the people like that. And he expanded from this little [undecipherable] store operation and I don' ; t know how many plants they have now, but a good many and rated as one of the top pants manufacturers in the country. Their volume is not as great as somebody like Levi or Bluebell, but there are about fourth or fifth down in, in total volume. EC: What about the Besharas started in Bristow or, I guess, some of the Besharas lived here? ES: The Besharas lived here. I don' ; t know where they started. This was a family of people. They came probably in the early twenties, and it was Sandy Sheriff (ph), a sister of theirs, was married to Saab Elias, and there might have been others that I can' ; t recall right now. Bill Hagar, by the way, was in an interview with Menswear (ph) listed as Bristow as one of the places where he began. He listed Joe Abraham in this interview as one of the first people that he worked for. Joe Abraham hired him, according to the interview, as a cotton buyer. He told Joe Abraham that he didn' ; t know anything about cotton. He didn' ; t know how to [indecipherable] Joe Abraham, according to Mr. Hagger, asked him if he knew what a good-looking horse was like. Mr. Hagger said yes. He did know what a good-looking horse was like. He asked him if he knew what a good-looking woman looked like, and he said, of course, anybody knows that. Then Joe Abraham told Mr. Hagger, you' ; ll make a good cotton buyer. EC: I was asking your wife before you came in, I' ; d realized that most of the Lebanese were Catholic, and she said, yes, except you were not, and it wasn' ; t unusual for the Lebanese who came here to be non-Catholic. Is that a, I don' ; t know that much about Lebanon. ES: But [indecipherable] of course had a good many, that was the basis of most of the religions, absolutely. There was a Greek Catholic, which was a different church entirely from the Roman Catholic. They had their own bishop, their own priest. The village my father came from was primarily Greek Catholic. Mother came from, was primarily Roman Catholic, so there wasn' ; t a Greek church, Greek Orthodox, I think, is the way they listed even yet. So my mother and my sisters and my younger brothers were brought up in a Catholic church. My father took me to the Christian Church. EC: This probably isn' ; t an easy question for you to answer, but I have read that there was a lot of anti-Catholicism in Bristow and this came from one of the local Catholics. And I wonder, how much of what she thought was anti-Catholicism was anti-Lebanese or how much of what may have been appeared to be anti-Lebanese was anti-Catholic. Were you aware of any prejudices in growing up here in Bristow? ES: There was a lot of anti, all over the country. There was a lot of anti-WAFs (ph), a lot of anti-Shiites (ph), a lot of Jews, Yehudis couldn' ; t go to a lot of places at one time. This was quite typical of that day and time, and this wasn' ; t any different. Whenever people began to come into the area, they set up naturally and not [indecipherable], but in people that had common interests and the people that couldn' ; t speak English and that included the Indians too, fell into their own groups. EC: Right. How old are you? ES: 65. EC: All right. You were born then in 1914 or 15? ES: 1913 October this year. EC: Then your earliest memories of Bristow really would be, well, perhaps World War I might have been, but it was happening. But you really wasn' ; t as gone much until the oil boom day. ES: So my earliest memories of World War I is, I don' ; t know what they were called at that time, home guards probably, but young men would get out and drill, getting ready for whatever may come. And I do remember going to the railroad station, [indecipherable] neighbor going into the service. And this would have been like 1917 as best I can place a year. EC: Since you were just a young child, were you conscious of the oil boom in Bristow? ES: Very much so, because, it was a very small town until the time the oil boom and people flocked in, took up every available place that they could live, sleep, eat, and it became an entirely different town from a small cotton country town. It became a town of people from New York, Pennsylvania, and other sections where they' ; d had oil previous to the oil boom here. And they were young people that came in, mostly without their families. And not having any other type of entertainment, whenever they would go out on an oil rig or a pipeline or anything of that nature, they would stay until the end of the week. And then they would come in, not all, not everybody, but they would get paid sometimes in gold, sometimes in currents, and sometimes in silver. They would come in to Bristow because this was the nearest place for them. And then they would find their entertainment with whatever the town offered. EC: I judge the entertainment grew as the boom grew? ES: Well, it was a good deal of industry in the upstairs of these buildings. Now they' ; re all vacant. The, yeah, the fights were quite common. The town had a curfew, I don' ; t remember what the age, but I think the time was after seven o' ; clock in the evening. Everybody under a certain age had to be off the streets. The law enforcement at that time probably consisted of maybe six to seven peace officers. Best I remember, the town had a city marshal. He might have had one or two helpers. There was a couple maybe, constables, in that day and time. There could have been in the area, two US marshals, and that was probably the entire peace force in a town that had in it probably 15 to 20,000 people crowded and everything that they could live in. And in the area itself, maybe like 30 to 40,000 people. It' ; s considered this the shopping center. EC: I would imagine you probably started working for your father when you were still in school. Is that true or did you have other jobs? ES: No, I started working in the store probably like 8, 9, 10 years old. Jennifer worked, but in that day in time, a good many people quit school at the eighth grade and worked in the oil fields and places. An education then was eighth grade, a good deal more than a lot of other people had. And a high school graduate could almost teach school. EC: Yes. What do you, what memories do you have of your own days in school here? Anything that stands out when you reminisce about school days? ES: Nothing really that would be of any interest to anybody but myself, personally. EC: Well, I was thinking more of the kind of, what kinds of things did young people do for fun, for entertainment? What, you know, do you remember things like Fourth of July picnics or parades or athletics or whether some particular kind of shenanigans the kids got into when you were young to get a flavor for the times? ES: Halloween was one of the big things, and even the adults in those days enjoyed holidays. The Main Street would have almost as many adults and costumes as it would have young people. And of course, young people were permitted more leeway than they are today. This was a town with a lot of outhouses and like a lot of other towns, these outhouses suffered quite considerably. There was a lot of other things that went on, but it was quite common to soak windows and soak everything of this nature. I don' ; t think the destruction was quite as expensive as today' ; s destruction could be. The day and time, then, was only athletic activities took place in the afternoons. The football fields weren' ; t lighted, the baseball fields weren' ; t lighted, so when there was a football or a baseball game in town, the stores would close. It was that kind of game, and everybody would go to the football game. I only know this story by hearsay. This is by a friend of mine who isn' ; t living now, but he told of the justice of peace, if I could use a name that was, Judge (John) Humphrey, that had a case going in his court early in the afternoon and there was a football game to begin about 1:30 or 2, whatever time this was. This may be a story only, I don' ; t know if there' ; s any truth. He listened to the two lawyers, plead the case for quite a while, just before game time. He stopped them, told them to go ahead and plead their cases, that he was going to football game, that they would find the decision in the top drawer. EC: (laughs) What about... ES: You' ; ll hear a lot of these things around town, you know, you never know whether that' ; s true or not. EC: It sounds probable. ES: Well, if you had known the man, you would' ; ve known it could have been very possible. EC: Yes. Were there any special effects of the Depression on Bristow? Sometimes I have the feeling that small towns maybe didn' ; t suffer as much as cities or maybe more, in other words, what strikes you from this distance about the effect of the Depression on Bristow? ES: It had been technically an oil and cotton town. The price of oil dropped so that a lot of the companies couldn' ; t produce it. They fired, of course, a lot of their employees, farmers themselves, weren' ; t on the commercial scale that they are today. This, of course, is not a farm area now it' ; s a [indecipherable] country, but families grew on, like, 40, 80, 120 off the top, large families, and when cotton cease to become commercial, these people were heavily mortgaged either to their suppliers of the stores or to the banks. And if they didn' ; t lose their property to the banks or to the people they had borrowed from, they lost it in taxes. Cotton dropped down at the gin, something like 9 cents. This would convert to 3 cents in the field. They had to pay a cent and a half to have it picked so it wasn' ; t commercial any longer. And had one of my pictures that shows that day and time, I' ; ve been told, you could have gone down Main Street from cotton wagon to cotton wagon and never put a foot down on the street itself. So, the buyers, the as best I remember, six gins, Joe Abraham was the owner of one of the gins. The others had other owners, of course. And the buyers would bid to get the cotton, but they would get into a lot of fights and all this type of thing, the buyers themselves. So one year they reached an agreement that they would pay a certain price and only a certain price for the cotton. This would eliminate the fights and the bad feeling and all of this. And Joe Abraham also agreed with the rest of the owners of the gins to, to hold by this price. And he only paid the agreed price for the cotton, but he paid a dollar a dozen for the eggs for everybody that sold the cotton to him. Eggs at that time was something like 10 cents a dozen. EC: Right. Has there been anything oh, outstanding, amusing, exciting, interesting, the kind of thing that I might not know to ask you about that has happened in Bristow that comes to your mind? ES: I' ; m not sure exactly the kind of thing, you know, that you' ; re, EC: oh, that' ; s, anything that, yeah, that strikes ES: that you' ; re wanting but there was a lot of money around the town and the people that had the money were young, energetic, aggressive people. Naturally, you could tell this because they brought KVOO into a town this size whenever Tulsa didn' ; t have anything to compare with it. They built a hotel here in town that was equal to almost anything there was in the area. And as things began to dwindle, these same people lost their money. Not particularly in the oil fields here, but they plunged in other areas for it. Particularly, you' ; ve probably been told the hotel here was named after the two partners that had done real well. There was two brothers here that produced their own oil, refined their own oil, and sold it to their own service stations. That was Glen, Glen Freeland and his brother. You' ; ve probably been heard a lot of this from, people heard know a lot more about it than I have. It' ; s unfortunate, but one of the Freelands died just possibly 60, 90 days ago. There' ; s a lot of people still living in this area that would give you something a little different than I can give you. Some are connected with peace enforcement, some are connected with the Indian tribes. Some are connected with the fire department. EC: Well, now you mentioned the Indian tribes and the police enforcement and fire departments. I, and fire department I talked to Curt Gillaspie, who would be the only person I' ; m aware of connected with the fire department and I have, do you have everybody particularly in mind for police or Indian? ES: This woman' ; s husband, she' ; s in a rest home now, but her mind is still pretty alert. She' ; s in her nineties. He was one of the early justices of the peace here and also a city, they called them city marshals in those days. They and their chief of police. EC: Right. ES: This woman is a granddaughter of the fella by the name of Allen, who was one of the early, these are Indians. EC: Right? ES: This fellow Allen was one of the early US Marshals appointed from Fort Smith before this was statehood. And the best I know her. She' ; s still alert. EC: Right. ES: You know, she would still be a good person if she wanted. EC: Yeah. ES: If she will [indecipherable] with you. She would be a good person if you hadn' ; t already had these names, given them to you. This man served on the police force, years, oh, on the police force, and he was a fireman too. This goes back a good many years and the town is quite young. This lady got married in a building two doors down from me in a bakery. She, thinking she may still be visiting here, but I' ; m not sure. This is an old timer that was in the oil fields that would know a good deal about the oil fields, a lot more than I. EC: Sure. ES: I don' ; t have. EC: Well, why don' ; t you just tell me, Mrs. Stoker first about your family. Where were they from and how' ; d they happen to end up in Bristow? PS: Well, my, my family' ; s all gone except one sister. I have one sister alive and she' ; s in North Carolina. She' ; s my baby sister. EC: Well, were you born here in Bristow? PS: No, I was born in Kansas. EC: Whereabouts in Kansas? PS: Parker. EC: And did your parents move to Bristow? PS: Oh, they come to, and they, and then we have been here since I was seven years old. EC: What when was that? What year? PS: Oh, I don' ; t remember. (Unknown Speaker) She' ; s 89. EC: Okay. You' ; re 89 now. And you were, came here when you were, PS: Oh, she would say that. EC: You came here when you were seven? PS: Yes. EC: Ah do you know why your parents chose to come to Bristow? PS: No. My father was just hunting green pasture. EC: What did he do for a job? PS: He was a farmer. EC: A farmer? PS: Yeah. EC: He, what' ; d he do get a, an allotment, a lease, an allotment. PS: Oh, no, we were not Indians, EC: But I thought maybe he, PS: No. EC: Where' ; d he get the land to farm? PS: Oh he just was a sharecropper. EC: Oh, I see. What do you remember about coming to Bristow the first time? PS: The thing I remember coming to Oklahoma was when we came across the Verdigris River and the horses, we were in the covered wagon and the horses had to swim, and one of my sisters laid down and put her head under a quilt, and mama was driving, papa was driving the big team. They were covered wagon and he took all the kids and put us in that wagon and mama was [indecipherable]. And mama said, now I' ; ll not come in that river. They told us that it, we were going to come across that river tonight because of it rising all the time. And so, mama said you come back after me, I won' ; t come in there. But when she started that team that she was driving, they just stood up on their hind feet and they were going too. And when mama got up, when Papa got across the river, the horses had swum the river in the covered wagon. He had another team in front of him. Another man [indecipherable] mama that, that horse [indecipherable] sat on the back of the seat of the surrey. And I looked out the window. I was seven years old and I looked out that little fold in the back of the covered wagon and I could see the team, but we couldn' ; t see mama. She was sitting on the back end of the seat and she come up and stood the beside of papa and he said, where' ; d you come from? She said I had to come! The horses, I couldn' ; t hold them. And that' ; s the most thing that impacted me. And then the first Indians we saw was at Blue Jacket, and I was scared to death of them. And some of ' ; em didn' ; t have anything on but a [indecipherable] pile. EC: Well, what about Bristow itself? PS: Well, after my father was killed, my father was killed when his team ran off, and the line broke. The man that he was working for the Campbell Oil Company, he had lost everything he had during, well, during McKinley about the year McKinley was killed. He had a mortgage on sixteen head of cattle and four big horses, and they foreclosed on him. And so we came and he went into the oil field to work out of Nowata. And he was killed coming in from work one night. Team, it was a very bad team, and had always been, had already killed one man. And he was working in the Home Shooter Field (ph) and they had got a big gas well, and Mr. Campbell had come after him and his driller and the team, just as they got into the town of Nowata right on Main Street, the team started to run and the line broke. And my father was a head buck boy at that time, and my father was putting on the brake and the other men jumped and Papa jumped, but his foot was caught, and it broke his neck. That was in 1910. EC: Okay. When did you, and you came to Bristow, PS: 1911. EC: 1911. PS: Yes. EC: What are your memories of Bristow when you first came here? PS: Oh, I thought it was terrible. EC: Did you? PS: No, it was quite a permissible town and they part had parts, wooden sidewalks here, and I thought it was terrible. But my mother had come here. She never went down the main street of Nowata after my father was killed. And she came here, she had a little insurance and bought a place on the east part of town. EC: A farm? PS: No, just a house. EC: Just a house. PS: And there were four of us children in the home. My older sister was married and gone from home. EC: Did you go to school here in Bristow? PS: No, I went to work to make a living. EC: Where did you work? PS: I worked at Ed Abraham' ; s store. And then Mr. Wolf, LM Wolf gave me more money and I went there. Mrs. (Nellie Gray Campbell) Abraham didn' ; t want me to quit and she tried to get Ed to give me more money and he wouldn' ; t do it because she and I were very good friends. So I went to LM Wolfe' ; s store was there right south of the, what' ; s that other bank? EC: Community. PS: Community State Bank now. EC: And when did you get married? PS: Oh, 1916. EC: Alright. Was your, had your husband been living in Bristow long? PS: Well, he was an oil field worker and he came here and drilled some wells and got dry holes. He drilled for [indecipherable], and they got dry holes at that time. But later he came back and then after we were married he went to Shamrock and that' ; s when the Shamrock boom was on. It was about 19, 1915, the Shamrock boom. And then in 1916 we got married and we went to Ponca City. And he worked for Marvin (ph) as his driller. EC: Came back to Bristow later? PS: Then, he came back, oh, about 1925, I guess [indecipherable]. EC: But you came back here to live? PS: Yes. EC: And that was because of the oil boom here? Was that because of the oil boom here in Bristow? PS: Yes. And he knew everybody here and he Marvin (ph) had to, well he had kind of overextended himself and he took the wells down and gone back east to get more money and my husband come right down here and stepped in the [indecipherable]. EC: Were there any particular stories that your husband told you about the oil field here at Bristow? PS: No. EC: Anything you remember about who were the people who really made money out of the oil here in Bristow? PS: [Indecipherable] the old poor farm that the state had bought, the county was out on the old highway and one, and I had [indecipherable] and I went out to get my wood and it was covered in snakes and that, well, I come in out there and the wind [indecipherable] and my feet were covered. There were [indecipherable]. Right down. Well, it just had a big tank. That' ; s about all I can remember of his particular things. So it went broke. EC: It went, broke? You? PS: No, he did. EC: He did. Well, what happened? PS: Well, oil went to 10 cents a barrel. We got [indecipherable] became contractors and we would get along pretty good. And then we had two wells. He drilled two wells of his own and you know, [indecipherable] oil was 10 cents a barrel and these big companies filled their tanks for, and we had 500 barrels of oil. And when my husband went to the gate to take the oil [indecipherable] taking it, he said, I can' ; t take it. My tanks were all full. Well, the state took it for back taxes the state tax on oil, and that was the end of our contract. EC: Who were the people? Who were some of the people who made money in oil here in Bristow? Who were the big oil people in Bristow? [Indecipherable] You came here in 1916. You got married in [indecipherable]. What the, did you notice anything about World War I, did it affect Bristow at all? Did you notice any? What about, go ahead. Go ahead. I thought you were gonna say something. What about when they all boom hit Bristow? Did the town change? PS: Oh, yes. EC: What kind of changes did you see? PS: You couldn' ; t find a place to stay all night that people came here, at one time, Bristow was 15 south population people set up in the depot [indecipherable]. EC: Is that right? Was it a rowdy town, like a lot of oil towns, a lot of activity and were fights on the streets and things like that? PS: Well, no, I can' ; t say [indecipherable]. People came here and [indecipherable] and they were all small. [Indecipherable] I didn' ; t buy it. He passed away now and has been gone for some years. EC: What were some of the more interesting things that you can remember happening? Anything funny or exciting or memorable? PS: No. I have some things, but I wouldn' ; t wanna tell them. EC: Why not? PS: Well, it' ; s people here that might not appreciate it. EC: I see. PS: [Inaudible] Oh, well, when I came here this town was a for a cotton town, 1st of September, the street that he bought the cotton buyers and cotton wagon. And Ed had a lot of money out. Mr. Wolf had a lot of money [indecipherable] and, but Ed was a [indecipherable], and that' ; s the year the Titanic went down. [Indecipherable] Titanic, went down and Ed could not read [indecipherable] and he would go out and buy papers and want me to read about the Titanic. And then. Joe Abraham, his brother, came here ahead of him and he built where Anthony is now. That was Joe Abraham [indecipherable] moved our [undecipherable] up there and Ed had a building and and Joe had one and Joe had was a cotton, he had a cotton gin and also he put in a cotton mill gin, a piece mill (ph), to piece the salt. And so Ed had a lot of money out and of course when they, each person came, he went under. He died here. EC: When did he die? PS: Oh, about a year ago. But Joe' ; s been dead for some time. EC: Who were some of the more interesting people that you knew in Bristow? Who were some of the more interesting people in Bristow? PS: Well, I guess the Joneses had the First National Bank, so [indecipherable] this parking lot where, [indecipherable] LM and OD, LM was the old man and OD was his son and they ran the bank [indecipherable] first one of the boys and he was a doctor and Hooker Groom (ph) was the pastor of the Christian Church here. When Mr. Groom died shortly after I came here and he was a man, well respected. Wasn' ; t anyone in this town, I don' ; t think was what loved Mr. Groom on Old Man Groom for then they built that building across the street that what is now against our insurance building there, and it went broke and the person and their first statement [indecipherable] the corner of seventh and main by the American National. That' ; s where [indecipherable] that is the Jones Bank. OD, I mean, M Jones, [indecipherable] BB Jones. They dropped their money from the Drumright oil fields. EC: Oh, they did? Were there people in Bristow who lost money in the bank? PS: Oh yes. One man lost $90,000 in the bank. And he [indecipherable] my husband, he [indecipherable] and they had an awful hard time. They owned a [indecipherable] and they struck oil. And they called it [indecipherable] all the children were married but the youngest girl and they' ; d gone to Norman and she was going, and when the bank went broke, he called Mr. Davidson (ph) and he came up and he had $90,000 [indecipherable]. EC: Tell me about the old green corn dance. PS: Well, I can' ; t tell you much about that. I' ; ve been trying to get the information. I went out there, the Indians used to have a green corn dance. I, maybe they do now. There was a lot of Indians here, then most of them have died off. And so I went to the store out there. We had a horse and buggy [indecipherable] night. Well, I wouldn' ; t get out the buggy. Things didn' ; t look very good to me out there. And I was a kind of a fussy old person, and I, [indecipherable] was killed out there. His name was Ralph (ph), but I' ; ve never been able to understand what his last name is. I called two men last night that I had known, and none of them could remember. Well, his wife was pregnant. His [indecipherable] wife was pregnant and she lost her baby and he [indecipherable] same call, but I never could, I can' ; t remember who that last name was. No. EC: Was the Green Corn Dance the same time as, what do they call it, the Green Onion, the Green Onion dance or something different? PS: Green Corn Dance Days. EC: What about the, most of the Indians have died off. Were there Indians who lived in Bristow? Like they lived outside? PS: No, they lived mostly they [indecipherable] and they had come here, you know, [indecipherable] and these Indians were part nigger, part colored I should say, and they came here to, they was a year coming from Georgia. I had a friend who was born in a covered wagon on the way. EC: Well what, surely you' ; ve got some other vivid memories of something that happened in Bristow. Do you remember one of the bank robberies or do you remember any of that? PS: Yes, I remember that. We were having a big faith convention in the Baptist church and Mr. Endsley had a meat market. He was cooking a ham for it and his daughter and I had gone to [indecipherable], and taken the car and gone after this ham for dinner. And when we got back there at the American National Bank, you know, the big crowd there and we didn' ; t know what was wrong. And she jumped out of the car to run to find out and the bank had just been robbed, but they, then they went [indecipherable] the bank and they said by that time they called out [indecipherable] coming out of the bank. And that was the end of them. [Indecipherable] was sheriff of this county and was for years. EC: Did you have children? PS: No. EC: Did you or your husband were you or your husband ever involved in politics in any way? PS: No. He oil, this was his life. He was a mason and a Baptist, and that' ; s just as far as it went. He was the first man, a first person, ever baptized in the Baptist Church, 1921. EC: Is that right? PS: [Indecipherable] The cotton got kind of short and it seemed like to me the oil had made this town. It used to be a little and tiny out here, and when that oil went down to 10 cents a barrel, it blew up. People lost their jobs. People were just, people lost their homes. Jim Fogle, he told me, we sat one night and ate together. I had known him for years and I was, I went back to work for Penny and. We used sat down there and he was telling me Jim had a hard time when he was telling me they had oil on his face. And he said, I' ; m setting pretty. Well I saw, I knew the times that Jim Fogle went on the WPA [indecipherable] had two boys and a girl. One of his boys was being, was educated to be a doctor. Dr. (Charles T.) Schrader was his uncle, and Dr. Schrader was sending him to school and the other boy told was going to be a preacher and a Methodist. After Jim went broke, the Methodist sent Joe on to be a preacher. EC: Were there many merchants here who went broke? PS: Oh yes. Yes. EC: Do you remember any soup lines or anything like that? PS: It was just done for, we had a lot of oil well [indecipherable] and in fact the town just boomed overnight. I never saw a town where people come and sat on your porch because they couldn' ; t find a place to stay all night. Their own hotel was not built at that time. It was a livery barn [indecipherable] and imagine a livery barn that[indecipherable] helped put that hotel up there. And I' ; ve seen the time, but they said they had the lobby full of people that come here to get jobs and they sat in the lobby for days waiting for a place to live. EC: Bishop. Oh Bishop, what about John Bishop? PS: John Bishop? I don' ; t know. No, I don' ; t remember him. John Bishop? No. There was a Groom thing and Jones thing. And then the first state, it was a Mr. Flurry (ph) and Mr. Harry Hunter (ph) had that. He went broke [indecipherable] screwed up. [Inaudible] EC: Community. PS: Oh, he had that now, don' ; t he? That was, well, they reorganized and they got that bank for going and I don' ; t know of anybody, if they ever got any that money. [Inaudible] EC: Tell something about Dr. Schrader. [Inaudible] PS: Oh, I don' ; t know why I don' ; t, we just thought he was a wonderful doctor that was old. He, oh I know, we hadn' ; t been here very long. My mother' ; s youngest girl, my sister was 10 years old, and after Papa was killed, well, she just didn' ; t know where she was [indecipherable] home and about 1919 [indecipherable] she couldn' ; t talk [indecipherable] inflammation of the stomach. But Dr. Schrader had been out here three or four times out to my mother' ; s house, and he couldn' ; t talk her into operate on my sister because my oldest sister lived up here by [indecipherable] and she told her not to. So that [indecipherable] and he said, I want you to come home. And I said, how' ; s my sister? He said[indecipherable] grabbed me and took me in and said, we' ; ve got operate on her. My mother was walking me back of the yard and crying, but [indecipherable]. They came down, they, the three days was already up and they had her packed in ice and the next day they [indecipherable] and Dr. Schrader, and Dr. (W.E.) King and Dr. [indecipherable] nurse all came out and still my mother [indecipherable] had talked me into it. Well, I realized they knew more than my mother about that. [Indecipherable]. 12 o' ; clock everything was done and they had gone and she got along wonderful. On the table. They told me that. He told me to take everything outta the living room, Dr. Schrader did, and wipe the walls down. [Indecipherable]. They came out and my mother [indecipherable] another time and my mother and he told her, he said, one more way [indecipherable]. I waited too long now [indecipherable] and he took the penny the first thing [indecipherable] all over Jessie' ; s (ph) stomach. And he said it was twice [indecipherable]. My mother had said she know [indecipherable] EC: Was there a flu epidemic in Bristow or small pox? PS: We had that [indecipherable] they didn' ; t have that here when I was here. We had that [indecipherable]. EC: What can you tell me about Albert Kelly? PS: Oh, well, Albert Kelly was an old [indecipherable] and he loved everybody and [indecipherable] built an apartment house and they wanted a hospital here so bad, but he couldn' ; t get no help. So [indecipherable] on sixth street, on Main Street. So he [indecipherable] that and [indecipherable] it to a girl. I learned for a hospital. And me, my sister was offered [indecipherable] but that was several years later in that hospital. But he couldn' ; t get no help. He wanted to get help, help build a hospital. Nobody seemed to be interested in it. EC: That was Dorcas (Kelly). That was Dorcas. PS: Then he was married to her, and I think they' ; ve had six or seven children. And wonderful man. And they, I, they have the bank now instead of the Jones Bank. It' ; s the Kelly Bank. It' ; s the American National. [Indecipherable] wonderful man. EC: Where did Albert Kelly make his money? PS: Oil. EC: Oil. PS: Well, he and Dr. Schrader, and a [indecipherable] that was a county commissioner, and Albert had the oil, you know, [indecipherable] and that' ; s where they that' ; s where he made his money. EC: [Indecipherable] the county commissioner. PS: Well, no, this was [indecipherable] at that time. Now Paul Foster (ph) saved the people in this town [indecipherable]. He gave a steer every other month, every month. And the boys went out and butchered it, went out and bring half of it in, and the other half, put in ice, that' ; s all there was to it. And, but they couldn' ; t sell [indecipherable], a wonderful thing. EC: Who was county commissioner who made money on the [indecipherable]? PS: Johnny (ph) EC: He owns some of the mineral rights himself. PS: Yeah. He and [indecipherable] and he went out to California and one of his daughters is living here now. And he and his wife, youngest child went out on a trip to Wyoming and Connie (ph) died out there of a heart attack. And his wife come back and she kept [indecipherable] a million dollars in their hand, and they didn' ; t take it, but it [indecipherable] there. They just closed. They couldn' ; t tap it. They couldn' ; t, there was so much gas, they couldn' ; t tap it and it just pulled itself out. EC: Who were some of the other people, like your husband who worked in the oil fields that weren' ; t... PS: Well, Jimmy [indecipherable] and oh, I can think of a hundred if you hadn' ; t asked me. EC: Well, was Brick Kirchner one? PS: [Indecipherable] No, he never worked, Brick didn' ; t, where my husband worked, but he never worked. [Indecipherable] They were the ones that, they had the money and my husband had worked for them. [Indecipherable] and a wonderful man to work for. EC: Roy, you know Roy? PS: Yeah. Anyway, he came later. Yeah, we wasn' ; t here then. My husband had, [indecipherable] but at that time my husband had been in the hospital, [indecipherable] she died of cancer. I knew her. EC: Tell me what you did for, what did you do for fun? Socialize. Did you go to dances or PS: No, I didn' ; t have any fun. Oh, it took all, I had to go home and make a living for my family. EC: Well, after you got married? PS: Oh, my husband, he did work 12 hours a day and went to bed the other 12 hours. Now, when we lived in Ponca City, he never missed a day for two years. That was the [indecipherable] had eight strings of tools on him, and my husband never missed a day for two years until he come down with the flu and he almost died. Marvin (ph) was a wonderful man. He there was no hospital there at that time and he just signed a check and took it to the Catholic priest and said, get him to somebody. And they had a sister or mother superior or somebody [indecipherable] came down there to Ponca City. They were loaded bed and they put him in a basement of the Catholic Church, and they took to take care of 12, but people died like, and we all, my mother, my husband and I was all down at one time. But a doctor, a little doctor came out and he took a nurse off of another state and brought him. And I' ; ve had that man come at two o' ; clock in the morning. He came every day for 30 days and I looked up one morning, one night, and there he stood in the door, there were a cup of coffee and a piece of bread and he said that' ; s all I' ; ve had this morning. [Indecipherable]. EC: Let' ; s see, Mrs. Stoker lived in Texas and then in the state of Washington and at Los Alamos with their husband, returned to Tulsa and moved back to Bristow around 1975. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0045B_Ellis_Shamas.xml OHP-0045B_Ellis_Shamas.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
5700
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ellis Joseph Shamas & Pearl M. Stoker
Description
An account of the resource
In this 1979 interview which includes Ellis Shamas and Pearl Stoker, Ellis talks about his family, Clarke’s clothing, the oil boom and WWI. Pearl Stoker tells about coming to Oklahoma, working for Ed Abraham, the banks, hard times and Dr. Schrader.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0045B
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1979-06-20
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
-
https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/4b92ebb88101dcdab3da0735fa52211a.jpg
1db4ce2efc85366ed6a04d0158ec1394
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pinehill Histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
Description
An account of the resource
Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Oral history.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Elsa Ray Self
OHMS Object
This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS
Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-01_Elsa_Self.xml
Interview Keyword
This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are
included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration
between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the
OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the
“keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record.
church
school
teachers
roads
OHMS Object Text
This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the
contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka
5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0001-002 Elsa Ray Self OHP-0001-02 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community church school teachers roads Elsa Ray Self MP3 1:|19(8)|45(8)|64(6)|79(3)|98(9)|118(4)|147(2)|173(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0001-02 Self, Elsa.mp3 Other audio 0 School Teachers BM: --recording everything you say. MM: It is—oh just stop it just for a minute to, and get start- stop it just for a minute BM: Alright, just— pause in recording ES: The first building was, uh, one mile south of the last building and a quarter mile east. Then the third building—the second building was, uh, a quarter of a mile west of the last building there. The last building was in the corner right here— Memories of teachers and school in the Pinehill Community Bob Lucas ; church ; Edith Whiteneck ; Etta Logan ; Mark Schockley ; school ; teachers school ; teachers 161 Oil, Fairs, and Church BM: Yeah. Now on the history situation, Elsa, is there anything in particular that you can think of that we ought to put down here in this history, that history on that thing? Like these, this oilfield stuff through here--something on that order there, is there any history on that that you can think of that we might ought to put in, in that. ES: No, I think not. This oil development started in here in the early twenties. I’ve got eleven wells on my place here, and the first one was drilled in 1923. And there was a few up in the north of there, north of here toward Pinehill, but I don’t know how close. Discussion on oil wells, churches, and fairs Charles Thomas ; church ; fairs ; literaries ; Mr. Rufus ; oil ; Pinehill ; statehood drilling ; fairs ; oil ; school 353 Land Development and a Hilarious Interruption BM: On developing this thing out this far in this country through here in 19--when you came back through here, who was some of the more prominent people that helped, was helping in on that at that time? ES: On what? BM: On helping get these roads and things built through here? In the community, helping get these roads built and— Discussion of land and road development and a hilarious interruption. Bruce ; Indians ; Molt Bruce ; Perrymans ; Pinehill ; roads ; Stubblesfields ; Velma Vann development ; roads In this 1976 interview, Elsa Ray Self (1901-1984) discusses the first pre-statehood buildings constructed in the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma, the first teachers at the Pinehill School, the identities of some of the first families to settle in the area, and early drilling activity in the region. BM: --recording everything you say. MM: It is--oh just stop it just for a minute to, and get start- stop it just for a minute BM: Alright, just-- pause in recording ES: The first building was, uh, one mile south of the last building and a quarter mile east. Then the third building--the second building was, uh, a quarter of a mile west of the last building there. The last building was in the corner right here-- BM: Right. ES: Now then, they had a little church house a mile south of that, uh, old building, of the fir--the last building, and it was just a church house that stayed there a year, a few years. (pauses) Now, the people who lived here I' ; ve known many of them. BM: Uh, now, here' ; s a question, Elsa do you remember the first, the first teacher that taught-- ES: No. No, I haven' ; t lived here all my life, so-- MM: Which is the first teacher you remember? BM: Which, which is the first teacher that you remembered? ES: Well it might' ; ve been Bob Lucas. BM: Bob Lucas. Well, see I have one back before Bob Lucas, that was, uh, Mark Shockley. ES: Mark Shockley, yes, I remember Mark-- MM: [Inaudible] BM: Then there' ; s one, uh, one before him, there was a lady before him by the name of Edith Whiteneck and another by Eddie, uh, what is that name? You got it wrote down there, that was after Edith Whiteneck-- MM: Hicks. BM: Hicks, yeah, what was that Hicks' ; last--first name. MM: Etta, uh Edith Whiteneck, Etta Logan, and then something Hicks. ES: Well that' ; s before I came here. I didn' ; t come here until, didn' ; t move here until 1922. BM: 1922 ES: I owned this place since 19-and-02. BM: Well that, that' ; s what I know. ES: I owned this, well, I owned this place since 19-and-02 and I could tell you people who lived here, well, but these uh school buildings here I just know about them. BM: Yeah. Now on the history situation, Elsa, is there anything in particular that you can think of that we ought to put down here in this history, that history on that thing? Like these, this oilfield stuff through here--something on that order there, is there any history on that that you can think of that we might ought to put in, in that. ES: No, I think not. This oil development started in here in the early twenties. I' ; ve got eleven wells on my place here, and the first one was drilled in 1923. And there was a few up in the north of there, north of here toward Pinehill, but I don' ; t know how close. UW: Well that number one was the first oil well that went---ever drilled in here. ES: No it wasn' ; t. UW: At that time. ES: It wasn' ; t. BM: Is there anything that you can think of that-- ES: Now, I went to church in this first building right up here, way down here back before statehood. I remember going there to church before statehood. My father was a minister and he went there and preached once in a while. But then when that building burned they moved it north and northwest. MM: What about the literaries? BM: Do you remember anything on those old time literaries that they had? ES: No. UW: They was over by the time he was back. MM: What about the fairs? BM: Do you know anything about fair that was held? Fairs that was held? ES: No. MM: At Pinehill School itself. ES: No. MM: Starting about middle of 1928, ' ; 29 out there. At the school itself, a fair. UW: Do you know when, uh, that was during Mrs. Rufus' ; time, I was substituting there for her and, uh, they was having a literary going-on there then because I was in a play that was there. BM: Okay--so you' ; re helping out here too. ES: I did a little substitute work there for Charles Thomas. BM: Yeah, I knew that. ES: But not much. BM: On developing this thing out this far in this country through here in 19--when you came back through here, who was some of the more prominent people that helped, was helping in on that at that time? ES: On what? BM: On helping get these roads and things built through here? In the community, helping get these roads built and-- ES: Well, I' ; d say the Bruces, Bruce families-- tape hilariously interrupted KID1: (excitedly) --and the top comes off, and it' ; s got little benches, and everything! Don' ; t we, mama! KID2: Mama! DAD: What the hell goin' ; on here! Somebody been playin' ; with this damn thing again? MOM: [Indecipherable.] No, what ya did, turned on them on or somethin' ; , did you wind it back? DAD: Yeah. MOM: I gotta do it again? DAD: Nope. tape continues ES: And then there was Vann, Velma (ph) Vann was here, he lived here on my place. Stubblefields lived here from 1902 to 1912, they must' ; ve had quite a bit to do with it. BM: Well see, that-- ES: Stubblefield. BM: Stubblefield. MM: What years did the Vanns lived on this place? ES: Well, they lived here, I' ; d say, uh, 1912 to about ' ; 17, 1917. They lived here five, six years. MM: If you' ; d ever let me in it, you wouldn' ; t have got me out, this is a nice, my idea of an ideal place to live. ES: Pinehill? MM: No, this place right here. ES: Oh. (laughs) Well-- MM: What about the [inaudible] BM: Alright, let' ; s kind of-- MM: --' ; cause they still, they still own the property there across from where the school was, they was the Perrymans and the Bruces and-- ES: Yeah, they were Indians. Yeah, they was an Indian lived east of that there and she was, he was Molt Bruce' ; s wife' ; s brother but I forget his name, terrible with his name. BM: Noble? ES: I' ; m not certain whether it was Noble, or-- MM: Well they say one of the Perrymans owned this-- ES: Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn' ; t know who-- end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-01_Elsa_Self.xml OHP-0001-01_Elsa_Self.xml
Sort Priority
This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS
Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details.
5600
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Elsa Ray Self
Description
An account of the resource
In this 1976 interview, Elsa Ray Self (1901-1984) discusses the first pre-statehood buildings constructed in the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma, the first teachers at the Pinehill School, the identities of some of the first families to settle in the area, and early drilling activity in the region.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OHP-0001-02
Subject
The topic of the resource
Pinehill Community
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio