4 10 101 https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/411367f5f3b7767e49262235dff6485d.jpg 923e640f8860c105361aa8238e760a76 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pinehill Histories Subject The topic of the resource History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow Description An account of the resource Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ira Lester Jones Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Pinehill School OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0005-01 Ira and Bonnie Jones OHP-0005-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community and School Pinehill School Ira Lester Jones Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|24(9)|46(5)|88(2)|106(10)|137(8)|158(4)|193(2)|225(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0005-01 Jones, Lester &amp ; Bonnie.mp3 Other audio 0 Life in Pinehill BM: What year, Lester, wait a minute, let me back up a minute. This is a tape of Lester Jones and his wife in their home living room, 10/18/76, time 7:30. Lester, what, what year was it that you was in the Pinehill community? LJ: Nineteen-and-twenty-five. BM: Did you ever go to school here? LJ: No. Life in Pinehill and the cattle operation cattle ; Indian land ; Lester Jones ; Molton Bruce ; Pinehill cattle ; Pinehill 120 Blackberry Thicket MM: What about the blackberry thicket? BM: What about that blackberry thicket that you— LJ: That blackberry— BM: --started telling me about a while ago. Memories of picking blackberries blackberry blackberry 184 People of Pinehill LJ: Yeah. I remember Walt Bolin (ph). BM: Up in the north. LJ: He lived on the north side of Polecat going straight north to Pinehill school. And his mule kicked him! And he had a scar of this mule’s foot on his-a lot of, some people called him “Mule Tracks.” BM: Do you remember a Frank Bruce? The people of Pinehill and Indian allotments Allotment of land ; Arthur Roberts ; Bob Lucas ; cemetery ; Curtis Scott ; Elsa Self ; Frank Bruce ; Indians ; oats ; Pinehill School ; Polecat ; slaves ; Smith Bruce ; steam thrasher ; Sunrise ; two room school ; wagon ; Walt Bolin ; wheat Allotment of land ; Pinehill 371 Moving to Pinehill and more Pinehill classmates BJ: Now didn’t you go to school at Pinehill? LJ: No, no. BJ: I thought you went to school there! Just lived there? Remembering more people in the Pinehill Community Ed Abraham ; Florence Stanley ; Pickett Prairie ; Pinehill ; Posey Place ; Theodore Abraham ; Velma Carson Classmates ; Pinehill School In this 1976 interview, Ira Lester Jones (1908-1988) and wife Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones (1908-1983) discuss their early life in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow in Creek County, Oklahoma, including picking blackberries, thrashing wheat and oats with a steam-powered thrasher, and the names of some of their classmates and neighbors in the community. BM: What year, Lester, wait a minute, let me back up a minute. This is a tape of Lester Jones and his wife in their home living room, 10/18/76, time 7:30. Lester, what, what year was it that you was in the Pinehill community? LJ: Nineteen-and-twenty-five. BM: Did you ever go to school here? LJ: No. BM: What was some of the things that you remember happening there in the Pinehill community? LJ: Well, one of the main things was Mote Bruce&#039 ; s cattle operation. BM: What do you mean by Mote Bruce&#039 ; s cattle operation? LJ: The way, now on these places that he had this Indian land range and he always reserved the stock field. And he grazed these, these cattle and these, in those creek bottoms in the wintertime, that&#039 ; s where he wanted them. BM: Anything else that you remember? LJ: And remember real well a one-legged colored man that-- BM: What was his name? LJ: All I remember is &quot ; Big Boy.&quot ; He had both of his legs--I&#039 ; m sorry, he--both legs were off. And, one below his knee and one above his knee. And he picked cottons walking on his knees, and he pick four-fifty, four hundred fifty pounds of cotton a day out of the, out of the creek bottoms. BM: You said something while ago that you knew my mother and you knew my dad. What year did you get acquainted with them? LJ: Well I got acquainted with them in 1924. BM: Anything in particular that you remember happened, that was before my time. Anything that you remember happened that--with them in particular? LJ: Well, yeah. I thought about what a nice neighbor they, that family was a lot of times. Real, real nice people. MM: What about the blackberry thicket? BM: What about that blackberry thicket that you-- LJ: That blackberry-- BM: --started telling me about a while ago. LJ: --more rabbits in it, more blackberries, and a few snakes, than any patch of blackberries I ever seen in my life. It was one acre of solid wild blackberries. Me and Casey went over and we picked a tubful of blackberries in about three hours. Number--number one washtub. BM: You remember that spring that was here by that old blackberry patch? LJ: No. No, I don&#039 ; t remember a spring. BM: It was right south of the blackberry thicket. LJ: Oh is that right? BM: Uh, no, it wasn&#039 ; t that blackberry thicket, it was right around it. It was right around that spring. LJ: Yeah? Well we just went in the west side over there next to Casey&#039 ; s place and we just, we just went out in there, in there, and we just picked right in one little spot there. Oh, it was place bigger than this house, you see. But I never, I ain&#039 ; t never seen such-- MM: Just picked until you got tired? LJ: Ma&#039 ; am? MM: Just picked until you got tired? LJ: Just picked &#039 ; til we got a tubful and went to the house. BM: Now this old spring that I was speaking about a while ago, it&#039 ; s still there as of today. LJ: Yeah? MM: The blackberry patch is not there. BM: The blackberry patch is gone. LJ: Yeah. I remember Walt Bolin (ph). BM: Up in the north. LJ: He lived on the north side of Polecat going straight north to Pinehill school. And his mule kicked him! And he had a scar of this mule&#039 ; s foot on his-a lot of, some people called him &quot ; Mule Tracks.&quot ; BM: Do you remember a Frank Bruce? LJ: Real well. Used to work for Frank, let&#039 ; s see--I was about, about thirteen or fourteen, just getting big enough to go to the thrashin&#039 ; and help &#039 ; em thrash. We hauled a bundle wagon. Hauled wheat and oats in to his place down in the pasture. The Roberts boys here at Bristow, colored--these two colored men? They, they were, they had that was their thrashing machine. Steam thrasher. BM: You mentioned Roberts a while ago. Did you by any chance know that they were some of the freedmen that were in this community? LJ: No, but I figured maybe they was. I figured maybe they was. MM: But you did know that the freedmen were out here to the allotments along this-- LJ: Oh yes, they, they were slaves of the Indians, right. BM: This Arthur Roberts, Arthur Roberts still lives on his allotment that he was allotted whenever they--his dad came to this part of the country and had taken out his allotment. Arthur Roberts still lives on his land of allotment. LJ: Yeah. BM: His sister, Irene, lives on hers. LJ: Yeah. MM: And Elsa Still still lives on-- BM: Elsa Self still lives on his original-- LJ: We used to--or I went to school at Sunrise when Elsa&#039 ; s wife was teaching. But she was--they had a two-room school and Claudie was in--he taught the other grades. I was in the, in the, Self&#039 ; s-- BM: Well, Elsa taught there, taught there too. LJ: Yeah. BM: He&#039 ; s got a miniature school building of the first Pinehill--uh, Sunrise school-- LJ: Yeah, we&#039 ; ve seen it. We&#039 ; ve seen it. BM: --with all the pictures and everything in it. LJ: He had it over to the cemetery one day, at Sunrise. BM: Who was some of the other people that you remember in there, Lester? LJ: I remember the-- BM: I mean at that time, now. At that time. LJ: Curtis Scott (ph). He lived a mile and a half south of Pinehill school. And &#039 ; course I knew all the, all the Bruce family. Not, not all of them. Smith Bruce, he lived in there. And Bob Lucas, knew them well, goes to school there at Pinehill. MM: Mrs. Lucas comes to the reunion every year and won&#039 ; t eat bite, she&#039 ; s afraid she&#039 ; ll miss some gossip. LJ: Oh, well that&#039 ; s--(laughs) MM: [Inaudible] is something else. LJ: Yeah, that&#039 ; s where I first--first knew him was at-- BJ: Now didn&#039 ; t you go to school at Pinehill? LJ: No, no. BJ: I thought you went to school there! Just lived there? LJ: No, we--I went to school with Casey, the fall of &#039 ; 25, and of course I was out in there for the whole two years Casey was there, you see. But we moved from right here on the Posey place, we moved to Pickett Prairie. BM: When you left the Posey place, then you moved to Pickett Prairie. LJ: Mmm-hmm. BJ: Now we could talk about Pinehill [inaudible]. LJ: Yeah. BJ: They even went to school there. LJ: There was a Florence Stanley, the name is Florence, and Jake--he lived [inaudible] (tape garbled). BM: [Indecipherable.] MM: Ellen and-- BM: Ellen was [inaudible] (tape garbled). LJ: And-- BM: Ellen was the oldest, then Myrtle. MM: Myrtle. LJ: Yeah. That&#039 ; s--was a Carson girl that married Claude Bruce. BM: That was Velma Carson. LJ: Velma, yeah. MM: We interviewed Claude yesterday. LJ: Yeah? Claude&#039 ; d be a lot of help on that thing. BM: No, he hadn&#039 ; t [indecipherable] brother was more help than--[inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: --baby brother was more help. MM: They are writing a history but I&#039 ; ve heard [inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: Claude did real well on his [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: Yeah. BM: When you were in there [inaudible] (tape garbled) BM: Did you ever help out [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: And I tell you something [inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: Theodore Abraham, he had a big cattle--[inaudible] (tape garbled) LJ: --bought the cattle, and Ed Abraham was his father. BM: Right. LJ: And they were a big operator, had a big store and they dealt with the farmers a lot. That was Theodore, they used to be a [indecipherable] here. BM: Can you think of anything else you might want to ask him? end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml OHP-0005-01_Ira_Jones.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 4000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ira and Bonnie Jones Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, Ira Lester Jones (1908-1988) and wife Bonnie Muriel (West) Jones (1908-1983) discuss their early life in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow in Creek County, Oklahoma, including picking blackberries, thrashing wheat and oats with a steam-powered thrasher, and the names of some of their classmates and neighbors in the community. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0005-01 Subject The topic of the resource Pinehill Community and School Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1976-10-18 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/390a9319380f40e02caf7c81f40044b4.png 970f989c348115d6f4a2ad2d17e9c41c https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/0dfbdb28ebea35763771af93610a4f8a.jpg e22db369e9b50ac3244350c869f2e342 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pinehill Histories Subject The topic of the resource History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow Description An account of the resource Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed John Rossander Iva Irene (Millhouse) Rossander OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-02_John_Rossander.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Pinehill oil farming cotton OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0005-02 John and Iva Rossander OHP-0005-02 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community and School Pinehill oil farming cotton John Rossander Iva Irene (Millhouse) Rossander Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|27(6)|49(2)|67(3)|83(2)|91(9)|105(9)|129(4)|150(7)|183(1)|215(14)|233(12)|265(5)|309(3)|344(7)|365(8)|401(9)|416(10)|436(14)|447(11)|466(5)|480(2)|488(18)|502(6)|514(3)|532(9)|550(8)|564(11)|591(3) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0005-02 Rossander, John &amp ; Iva.mp3 Other audio 0 Making the move to Pinehil BM: --here with John Rossander and Iva Rossander in their home, 10/22/1976 time 20 minutes ‘til four. pause in tape BM: John, what year did your mother and dad come into this community? JR: Nineteen-nine. BM: What was their names? JR: Zeke and Sarah Rossander. Discussion of moving to the Pinehill community Iva Rossander ; John Rossander ; Pinehill ; Sarah Rossander ; Zeke Rossander Pinehill ; Rossander 91 Pinehill School BM: How many of them went to the Pinehill School? JR: Well, every one of them except—no, let’s see, there’s four: Rubilee (ph)—I mean Maudie (ph), Rubilee (ph), Alice (ph) and Evelyn (ph) didn’t go. They died when they were young. BM: Whenever your folks came to this part of the country, where did they migrate in here? JR: Right from north of Drumright. Going to school at Pinehill and first teacher Edith Whiteneck ; Pinehill ; Pinehill School ; teacher Pinehill 183 Oil and Cotton BM: What did you family do for a liv—what did you or your parents do for a living whenever they came to this part of the— JR: (laughs) Farmed. Cotton. BM: They had a cotton farm. JR: Yep. Family's cotton farm and the first oil well in the Pinehill area cotton ; drilling ; Elsa Self ; farm ; Hennesson Ware ; Iva Ware ; oil ; Owen Ware ; wells Farming cotton ; Oil wells 346 Members of Pinehill Community BM: What year did you and Iva get married? JR: In ’26. BM: Well, we better back up a little bit. You said a while ago that you remember Jake Roberts (ph). Discussion of where Pinehill community members lived Jake Roberts ; L.J. Florence ; log house ; Pinehill ; Smith Bruce ; Vann log house ; Pinehill 505 First Pinehill School MM: Where was the first school he went to? BM: Where was the first school that you went to, John? JR: Victory Chapel. BM: You went to Victory Chapel first, then— Location of the first Pinehill school Abner Bruce ; Leo Pinehill ; Mosquito place ; Pinehill ; Pinehill school ; Victory Chapel Pinehill school 578 Location of Pinehill School MM: Did you check and see if it’s running? (pause) There weren’t but one. BM: There’s been talk that there was one schoolhouse here, possibly two. Now do you know anything about that? JR: Well now, that don’t seem right to me. But there wasn’t but one. And it was right in the corner, in the northeast corner of Mosquito Creek. That’s where it sat. I can show you the rock, I think, where it sit. It wasn’t in the corner on Pinehill, this was close to the road where it turns down— Discussion on the location of the Pinehill school Abner Bruce ; Mosquito Place ; Murta Mosquito ; Pinehill ; school ; schoolhouse Pinehill school 748 Second Pinehill School JR: Because they built the new schoolhouse over here, then. BM: They built a new schoolhouse up on the hill. JR: On the Grandpa Bly’s (ph) place. BM: On the Grandpa Bly (ph) place. JR: Yeah, other word to it was, I guess it was Phoebe Bruce’s. No? Location of the second Pinehill school Bly ; Phoebe Cairnly ; Pinehill ; Pinehill School Pinehill School 802 Activities at the school house BM: What all, what all activities was the school used for? JR: Well, when I went to school? BM: Yeah, when you went to school there, from the time that you remember the school starting— JR: It was just baseball and— The many activities that took place at the Pinehill schoolhouse baseball ; Christmas Programs ; church ; fairs ; literary ; pie supper ; Pinehill ; polling precinct ; school ; Sunday School activities ; Pinehill ; school ; schoolhouse 906 Mark Saxon BM: Who done the fighting? JR: Who? BM: That you remember? JR: (laughs) Uh, Mark Saxon (ph) and oh, I can’t think of that other guy’s name. That was the first fight I ever seen. Seeing Mark Saxon get in a fight and his family history Arthur Barnes ; Bill Baker ; Ellen ; fights ; Gertrude ; Mark Saxon ; Pinehill ; Skeeter Creek ; Smith Bruce Mark Saxon ; Pinehill 1088 Rabbits for dinner JR: Well, now, on this same place I can’t think of them people that lived there. After that, a while after that, they had two girls and one boy and they was great big old husky girls and what their names was now I can’t think of it. I used to tease Homer about one of them girls. In 19—I don’t know what. They killed rabbits and it was a baaaad winter. Hunting rabbits during a bad winter hunt ; Rabbits ; winter hunting rabbits 1191 John and Iva marry BM: What year did you and Iva, what year was you and Iva married? JR: In ’26. BM: 1926. JR: Third day of February. The date of John and Iva Rossander's marriage 1926 ; Iva Rossander ; John Rossander ; marriage Marriage 1224 Poem from the Literary BM: --you said while ago that you [inaudible] (tape garbled) --or you know a poem that—literary-- IR: --remember it—[inaudible]. (tape garbled) BM: Well, let’s have it! Iva recites the poem from the literary literary ; poem literary 1313 Working Days MM: You want to ask him about the [indecipherable]? BM: You, John, what all work have you done since you and Iva were, had been married? JR: Well, I mostly farmed, but we went to New Mexico in ’36. I worked for a rancher out there and I worked seven days a week from sun ‘til sun for two dollars a day. And I kept wantin’ them to give me a day off, ‘cause it was just driving me crazy. Memories of working and various jobs biscuits ; Culverson Saw Mill ; drop herds ; Edward Hunt Sheep Company ; farm ; lamb ; mutton ; sheep ; sidelined ; work farming ; sheep ; work 1530 Jake Roberts Place BM: What about the Jake Roberts place, you said something about the Jake Roberts place, the Jake Roberts lease or place? Earlier? JR: Well, Jake Roberts, they, they used to when we first came here, they had all the good horses. Good horses. They was workin’ negroes. Colored folks. Really working. And there was Jake, he was old as I am, and then there was Johnny Roberts (ph) and Walk Roberts (ph), and—Walk lives over here this side of the 66 yet. Arthur, that’s Arthur. Discussion of Jake Roberts and slaves allotted ; freedman ; horses ; Indian Slaves ; Indian Territory ; Jake Roberts ; Johnny Roberts ; Rubin Moore ; slavery ; Walk Roberts ; white slaves Indian Territory ; Jake Roberts ; slaves In this 1976 interview, John Rossander (1904-1984) and wife Iva Irene (Millhouse) Rossander (1905-1999) discuss their childhood and the early days of their marriage spent in the Pinehill community outside Bristow, Creek County, Oklahoma, as well as time spent working in New Mexico at a sheep farm during their early marriage. John describes childhood events such as tracking a missing hog for a neighbor. He also works with the interviewer to pinpoint the locations of neighbors and the locations of early Pinehill school buildings on a map. John also discusses the Jake Roberts, an African-American freedman living on an Indian allotment who was a successful horse breeder. BM: --here with John Rossander and Iva Rossander in their home, 10/22/1976 time 20 minutes &#039 ; til four. pause in tape BM: John, what year did your mother and dad come into this community? JR: Nineteen-nine. BM: What was their names? JR: Zeke and Sarah Rossander. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: What was your mother&#039 ; s name before-- JR: Stanton. BM: Stanton. How many children were they to that marriage? JR: Twelve. BM: Would you give me their names? JR: Well (laughs), yeah, I can give--Vera (ph)--I mean, Esther (ph), then Vera (ph), John (ph), Cecil (ph), Homer (ph), Marcella (ph), Buford (ph), Rubilee (ph), Maudie (ph), Alice (ph), and Evelyn (ph). (talking in background) JR: I named Homer (ph). IR: Hilma (ph)! JR: Oh, Hilma (ph)! MM: [Inaudible.] JR: She was born after Evelyn (ph). BM: How many of them went to the Pinehill School? JR: Well, every one of them except--no, let&#039 ; s see, there&#039 ; s four: Rubilee (ph)--I mean Maudie (ph), Rubilee (ph), Alice (ph) and Evelyn (ph) didn&#039 ; t go. They died when they were young. BM: Whenever your folks came to this part of the country, where did they migrate in here? JR: Right from north of Drumright. BM: What, do you know or did you hear them say what year they came to the state of Oklahoma? JR: Yes sir--oh! State of Oklahoma, oh, they were more or less raised here. Grandpa came from Kansas and dad came down here when he was twelve years old, out on the homestead. BM: They come down from Kansas, then, when he was twelve years old? JR: Yeah. BM: Who was your first teacher at Pinehill School? JR: Well, really I can&#039 ; t really tell you for sure, but I think it was Edith Whiteneck. I was small for my age. BM: What did you family do for a liv--what did you or your parents do for a living whenever they came to this part of the-- JR: (laughs) Farmed. Cotton. BM: They had a cotton farm. JR: Yep. BM: What year do your--what year do you remember seeing the first oil well in this community? JR: Let&#039 ; s see, [indecipherable] a well, it was--I guess it was 1912. Believe it was. BM: Was it--what do you remember about the old Ware (ph) place over there? JR: Owen Ware (ph)? I just, myself, the only thing I can remember, well, I can remember several things but I remember when they lived there, Iva Ware (ph) and all them was there, and Old Man--old Hennesson Ware (ph) had a hog to get out, a big old spotted sow, and he came over there to dad&#039 ; s and wanted dad to take and go and get her in, get her for him, because he couldn&#039 ; t--he couldn&#039 ; t get her in, couldn&#039 ; t find her. And somebody&#039 ; d told him that we had a dog that&#039 ; d trail a hog up might near, regardless how old the scent was. And we went off east of his house and found a track, which it looked dim to me. And I took that old--dad told him that he couldn&#039 ; t, but he said I could. So I took my dog and went over there and I pointed down at the track, I said, &quot ; Get it, Nigs.&quot ; And he took off. And he, he bayed that hog back east of Elsa Self, way back over in them hills in there. But what year that was, I can&#039 ; t tell you. MM: You don&#039 ; t remember drilling early oil wells on the Ware (ph) place, do you? BM: Do you remember the early oil wells that was on the Ware (ph) place? JR: No, I don&#039 ; t remember what year that--I remember &#039 ; em but I don&#039 ; t know what year it were. BM: What year did you and Iva get married? JR: In &#039 ; 26. BM: Well, we better back up a little bit. You said a while ago that you remember Jake Roberts (ph). JR: Yep. BM: You said also that you remembered when he came into this part of the country. Where did he settle first? JR: Over here east of Smith Bruce&#039 ; s on Browder (ph), Browder&#039 ; s (ph) place. In an old log house there. And Smith Bruce and them used to live there and in 1910 they built their log house over here. And they moved on that twenty acres. He bought twenty acres and he moved on it in 1910. BM: And he built a log house there in &#039 ; 20 that he bought-- JR: Yeah. In 1910. BM: In 1910. JR: And Jake lived there in that house down there I guess 1910, I don&#039 ; t know what year it were. I can&#039 ; t tell you that. BM: Then whenever they left, whenever they moved from the Browder Bruce (ph) place, they moved down over, then, and [indecipherable] the school, is that right? JR: No. BM: Where did they move to from there? IR: North of the school. BM: North of the school. JR: No, when they left there, they moved from there over to--they went from there over to L.J. Florence&#039 ; s (ph) close to over here, and lived in a little old tent right over here by the big pecan tree and picked cotton for L.J. Florence (ph). Which that was their uncle. Yeah, that&#039 ; d be Ella (ph) and them&#039 ; s uncle. BM: When you say over here, back over here pointing back over here, what place would that be, John? JR: Well, that&#039 ; d be the Vann place, used to be the Vann place, or BM: Step out there and get that map, Pat. We&#039 ; ll come back to that in a minute, so get that map and then we can pinpoint, he can pinpoint the exact place that it was. MM: Where was the first school he went to? BM: Where was the first school that you went to, John? JR: Victory Chapel. BM: You went to Victory Chapel first, then-- JR: And they wouldn&#039 ; t let us go up there because we was in a different district. BM: You were in Pinehill District? JR: Pinehill District. BM: So they stopped you from going to Victory Chapel. JR: Yeah. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Now that first Pinehill School that you remember, where was it located at? JR: That I went to? BM: Yeah. First Pinehill School that you remember, where was-- JR: Oh, well I remember the one right there where [indecipherable] to Abner Bruce&#039 ; s. Sat there in the corner on [indecipherable], one of the Mosquito places. BM: In other words, you remember this one here, then. JR: Yeah. BM: You remember the first one, then, that was built on Leo Pinehill. JR: Yeah, yeah. Well, it wasn&#039 ; t Leo&#039 ; s, wasn&#039 ; t it? BM: Yeah, it-- JR: It was his dad&#039 ; s, wasn&#039 ; t it? BM: It&#039 ; s Pinehill allotment, Leo--Leo&#039 ; s JR: Yeah. BM: Leo&#039 ; s, Pinehill&#039 ; s allotment. JR: Yeah. MM: People argue that there wasn&#039 ; t one. Some says that there was just one there and some say there were two. pause in recording MM: Did you check and see if it&#039 ; s running? (pause) There weren&#039 ; t but one. BM: There&#039 ; s been talk that there was one schoolhouse here, possibly two. Now do you know anything about that? JR: Well now, that don&#039 ; t seem right to me. But there wasn&#039 ; t but one. And it was right in the corner, in the northeast corner of Mosquito Creek. That&#039 ; s where it sat. I can show you the rock, I think, where it sit. It wasn&#039 ; t in the corner on Pinehill, this was close to the road where it turns down-- BM: That runs east and westward. JR: Yes. It was in the northeast corner of that Mosquito place. MM: [Inaudible.] JR: I don&#039 ; t know what section that&#039 ; s in, but-- MM: [Inaudible.] JR: The section line goes east toward Abner Bruce&#039 ; s. It sat right across the road in the northeast corner, right there. BM: Well that must&#039 ; ve been there on--evidently, now, there had--there was two, there was two schools there, then. MM: Yeah. BM: There was two schools built there on that corner, then. The first one was built--this is that road that goes across there-- JR: This is north. BM: Right. This is the road that runs up and down the creek here. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: This right here is the road going across toward Abner Bruce&#039 ; s. The first one was built on, over here on this Leo. And you said the other one was built in the northeast corner, so this&#039 ; d have to be in here on this Murta M-U-R-T-A, Murta Mosquito, or something like that. JR: Yeah, it was built right in the corner. BM: Well, that would be right in this corner in here, then. JR: Well, I don&#039 ; t know. I don&#039 ; t understand-- MM: [Inaudible.] BM: That would be right here in that northeast corner. JR: And you know what happened to it, don&#039 ; t you? BM: Well, they tell me this one here burnt in about 1908. The one up on the hill burnt in about 1908. And-- MM: Ask him what happened to that one. BM: What happened to this one? JR: Well, it burnt down, them boys, big boys, would go in there and have their parties and things in there and they, they just burnt it down. MM: See, now, he-- BM: Well how long-- MM: What year? BM: What, about what year was that, John? JR: Well, it was after 1909, I don&#039 ; t know when. MM: About &#039 ; 12, I was told. JR: I can&#039 ; t tell you that. IR: [Inaudible.] JR: Because they built the new schoolhouse over here, then. BM: They built a new schoolhouse up on the hill. JR: On the Grandpa Bly&#039 ; s (ph) place. BM: On the Grandpa Bly (ph) place. JR: Yeah, other word to it was, I guess it was Phoebe Bruce&#039 ; s. No? MM: [Inaudible.] JR: Grandpa Bly (ph) lived there, I don&#039 ; t remember what year he came there. But it was built in the southeast corner of that place. BM: Down at Phoebe, Phoebe-- JR: Phoebe Bruce, Cairnly (ph). BM: Yeah, it&#039 ; d be Phoebe Carinly (ph). JR: Yeah. Well, that&#039 ; s where it was built. BM: Well that shows it to be right there. Then what year did that school burn, John? JR: I don&#039 ; t know. BM: But it burnt too, did it or did it not? JR: Yeah. Yeah. MM: Three of them. BM: Then they built one down on the other hill. JR: Yeah. BM: Is that right? JR: Yeah. BM: What all, what all activities was the school used for? JR: Well, when I went to school? BM: Yeah, when you went to school there, from the time that you remember the school starting-- JR: It was just baseball and-- BM: What I&#039 ; m trying to say, John, is this--was it used for other things than school activities? Now this goes back to the time that you remember the first school until it closed. What all different activities was it used for? JR: Well, they had a literary there and they had pie suppers there and they had Sunday school and church and--huh? MM: [Inaudible.] JR: And anyway, Christmas programs, all of them, they had them there. And that&#039 ; s--huh? MM: [Inaudible.] JR: Yeah, they had fairs but I don&#039 ; t know what year that were. But I think it were in--see I was about 14 or 15 years old. I guess I was 14, &#039 ; cause the year before I went to Inola. BM: Well was there any other activities that it was used for, besides what you had named? JR: Well, not that I can think of. BM: Did it ever, did the old--did the school ever use, was it ever used as a polling precinct? JR: Oh yeah, lots of--lot of fights there! BM: Who done the fighting? JR: Who? BM: That you remember? JR: (laughs) Uh, Mark Saxon (ph) and oh, I can&#039 ; t think of that other guy&#039 ; s name. That was the first fight I ever seen. BM: Sexton (ph)? JR: Mark Saxon (ph). BM: S-A-X-T-O-N? JR: Yeah. BM: Or S-A-X-O-N? JR: I, I don&#039 ; t know which way it&#039 ; s spelled. BM: Now, by any chance did he have two sisters? JR: Well-- BM: That you know of. JR: Now, Mark had, had two daughters. BM: Okay, now then, this--this is kind of light, now. That would be Gertrude and, oh-- JR: Ella-Ella-- BM: Ellen, Ella or something. I think it&#039 ; s Ellen. Ellen. JR: Yep. BM: Gertrude and Ellen, that was their father. JR: Yeah, yeah. BM: Okay, where did they live, John, or do you remember? JR: Mmm-hmm. I don&#039 ; t know who owned it, but I think Bill Baker owned it. Over on--well, let me see, it&#039 ; d be three--one, two, three. It&#039 ; d be three miles south and a mile east over here. Other words it&#039 ; d be three miles straight south right down here by Smith Bruce&#039 ; s. It&#039 ; d be three miles straight south on the hill, the rocky hill up there. You know where Arthur Barnes lived. And it&#039 ; s, it&#039 ; s just built right around--and there&#039 ; s a branch come in from the, the south and east, and then Skeeter Creek was on the west of it. And the house sat right up on that old rocky point. BM: In other words, they lived out on the very south end of the school district? JR: Yeah, yeah. Right on the south edge. BM: Right on the south edge of the school district. JR: Yeah. The section line runs through here and I think their house wasn&#039 ; t as far as from here to the window to the highway. To the road. BM: To the road. But it was right on the south edge of the Pinehill district. JR: Yeah. BM: Alright. We get back to this, this thing I&#039 ; ve got here, isn&#039 ; t right. We know it isn&#039 ; t, in fact it doesn&#039 ; t cover enough south. MM: Well, but I was just going to say that poem from the literary-- IR: [Inaudible.] BM: And that&#039 ; s one reason that I want you and Iva, when we get this other map and put these things down on it, you come up with some more information where people lived and anybody that I hadn&#039 ; t run across yet. JR: Well, now, on this same place I can&#039 ; t think of them people that lived there. After that, a while after that, they had two girls and one boy and they was great big old husky girls and what their names was now I can&#039 ; t think of it. I used to tease Homer about one of them girls. In 19--I don&#039 ; t know what. They killed rabbits and it was a baaaad winter. You could just go out with a club and just knock &#039 ; em in the head. And they had a barrel full of hind legs and backs. Backs. Of rabbits. Barrel full. And they had about a half a barrel full of front legs and the ribs and stuff. Sorted them! That was their meat for that summer. BM: But they used the rabbit as their--they used the rabbits as their meat. JR: Yeah, I told--that year, and they had them in the barn! Had these barrels out in the barn. BM: What year did you and Iva, what year was you and Iva married? JR: In &#039 ; 26. BM: 1926. JR: Third day of February. BM: Was there any children to that marriage? JR: No. [Inaudible.] (tape garbled) BM: --you said while ago that you [inaudible] (tape garbled) --or you know a poem that--literary-- IR: --remember it--[inaudible]. (tape garbled) BM: Well, let&#039 ; s have it! IR: (reciting) &quot ; I jumped up in the cold morning in high glee and put on a [indecipherable] coat and [indecipherable] pants--Miss Kate [inaudible] (tape interference) when I got over there, there sat Bud Fat (ph)-- I did no more expect to see him sitting there than I&#039 ; d expect to see a hare hid behind Uncle Tom Smith&#039 ; s bald head. We got over there, we thought we&#039 ; d go [indecipherable] hunting [inaudible] (tape interference) --one of these great big old squabby bullfrogs. He knew how to holler just as well as I did, he goes &quot ; WHOOO!&quot ; Knocked Miss Kate off in the creek half-waist deep. Old Fool Bud Fat (ph) ran down the creek to get a pole to help Miss Kate out and I jumped in there and I had her out in a little while! I ask her if she loved me to squeeze my hand, and she squeezed and she squeezed and she squeezed it off! My, how that felt. The next time Old Fool Bud Fat comes over to my house, I&#039 ; m going to souse his head in the slop bucket.&quot ; BM: (laughs) MM: You want to ask him about the [indecipherable]? BM: You, John, what all work have you done since you and Iva were, had been married? JR: Well, I mostly farmed, but we went to New Mexico in &#039 ; 36. I worked for a rancher out there and I worked seven days a week from sun &#039 ; til sun for two dollars a day. And I kept wantin&#039 ; them to give me a day off, &#039 ; cause it was just driving me crazy. And they wouldn&#039 ; t let me off. So I quit &#039 ; em. I&#039 ; d been telling &#039 ; em I&#039 ; d quit &#039 ; em. So I went to Culverson (ph) Saw Mill. And I begin to work at the mill. And I worked at the mill there for, oh, three to four days, a week, and they was supposed to get me some help and they wouldn&#039 ; t do it--they didn&#039 ; t do it. So I quit them and I worked for the--what&#039 ; s his name? Hunt, Edward Hunt Sheep Company. And I picked up the drop herds. BM: When you say drop herds, what do you mean by the drop herds? JR: Well, the old ewes that had young and they wouldn&#039 ; t claim &#039 ; em lot of times. And I had a thing concern with jointed pole and I&#039 ; d hook them old ewes, I could see that they&#039 ; d had young, and I&#039 ; d hook them with that pole, catch &#039 ; em around the leg, and I&#039 ; d hold &#039 ; em and I&#039 ; d sideline &#039 ; em. And then I&#039 ; d push a little lamb up there and they&#039 ; d nurse, and I&#039 ; d turn her loose. I mean, let her go. I&#039 ; ve leave her sidelined. BM: What does sideline mean? JR: Well, I just put, tie her one front foot and one back foot together. That is, you know, where they can walk but still they couldn&#039 ; t kick &#039 ; em or anything. And if you let &#039 ; em nurse one time, well then they&#039 ; d take &#039 ; em and go on. BM: They&#039 ; d take the, the little ones then and go on and raise the little ones? JR: Yeah, yeah. And I had to go to the sheep camp every day. I didn&#039 ; t have to work only about--well, I&#039 ; d start out early of a morning and then I&#039 ; d have to go to the sheep camp and get there about 11:30. And I had to report in and every day I was there. There was hard tack biscuits and mutton and brown beans. That was the regular meal. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Well how long were you in New Mexico? Why were you in New Mexico? JR: Well, I went out there more or less so maybe it&#039 ; d help Iva, and she--other words, she had poor health and I thought maybe it&#039 ; d help her, and she was homesick for her folks. BM: You mean Iva was still momma&#039 ; s baby. JR: No, she was--she&#039 ; s pretty good, but still she&#039 ; s homesick. BM: She wanted to go see momma. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: What about the Jake Roberts place, you said something about the Jake Roberts place, the Jake Roberts lease or place? Earlier? JR: Well, Jake Roberts, they, they used to when we first came here, they had all the good horses. Good horses. They was workin&#039 ; negroes. Colored folks. Really working. And there was Jake, he was old as I am, and then there was Johnny Roberts (ph) and Walk Roberts (ph), and--Walk lives over here this side of the 66 yet. Arthur, that&#039 ; s Arthur. Walk is dead, that&#039 ; s right. And them and then there, the old Rubin Moore&#039 ; s (ph), back there across the road over there. We went right through their yard all the time. BM: The Robertses, then, the dealings that you had with Jake Roberts was buyin&#039 ; horses off of him, is that right? JR: Oh, we didn&#039 ; t buy any off of him, but they just had them-- BM: You weren&#039 ; t trading with him, or-- JR: Huh-uh, no, we just knew him well, they was good clean colored folks. BM: Well you knew that, did you, or did you know that they, Jake Roberts was a freedman, out of slavery? Did you know that? JR: Well, yeah, yeah. BM: I&#039 ; ve been trying to pinpoint down why that those colored people had been allotted land in the Indian territory. Some said they were Indian slaves. Others said no, they were white slaves. JR: I don&#039 ; t know what, now, whether-- IR: There was-- JR: --Indians or whites, I can&#039 ; t tell you that. IR: They were the Indian&#039 ; s slaves. BM: Well that was report-- IR: They moved back here from the east, they had these slaves. BM: They were Indian slaves. JR: But I can&#039 ; t tell you-- BM: Well, that there--that is what I wanted to make sure of. IR: [Inaudible.] BM: Speak up a little bit louder. IR: Oh, I&#039 ; m just [inaudible]. BM: Okay. JR: But, I can&#039 ; t, I can&#039 ; t tell you that, but I do-- end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0005-02_John_Rossander.xml OHP-0005-02_John_Rossander.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 5500 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource John and Iva Rossander Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, John Rossander (1904-1984) and wife Iva Irene (Millhouse) Rossander (1905-1999) discuss their childhood and the early days of their marriage spent in the Pinehill community outside Bristow, Creek County, Oklahoma, as well as time spent working in New Mexico at a sheep farm during their early marriage. John describes childhood events such as tracking a missing hog for a neighbor. He also works with the interviewer to pinpoint the locations of neighbors and the locations of early Pinehill school buildings on a map. John also discusses the Jake Roberts, an African-American freedman living on an Indian allotment who was a successful horse breeder. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0005-02 Subject The topic of the resource Pinehill Community and School Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1976-10-22 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 550 https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/48853fe23390fca3475b7f00b848da41.png 4aa32e6e4b9b30faaa5da0527bf4aeda Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Floyd Luther Blythe OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Cato moving OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0010-01 Floyd Luther Blythe OHP-0010-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Cato Cato moving Floyd Luther Blythe Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|19(14)|38(3)|64(12) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0010-01 Blythe, Floyd.mp3 Other audio 0 Camping on the creek FB: --and of course he helped the baby up and put out the fire, and they said they sold every hog and every [indecipherable] they had and every hog and everything they had. You know, they camped on the creek there for a few days. I don’t know how long, now. But they killed every living thing they had. He kept one horse that he traveled a little on. He took it out to the middle of the cornfield and tied it up. Corn was big and tall, you know, old horse was [inaudible] and they didn’t tie their hogs. Discussion of camping near a creek in Missouri camping ; Cato ; creek ; hogs ; Missouri Camping ; creek 68 Finding a Cemetery BM: Now then, how, how did you find the cemetery? MM: What was you doing— FB: Oh— BM: What was you doing? Memories of finding a cemetery Blythe ; cemetery ; Georgie ; Mary cemetery 150 A Broken Hip BM: This is Floyd telling as much as he can remember on how Aunt Sis or Mary Jane got her hip broke. FB: Well, the Johns (ph) were on their way to the reunion and she somehow or another, Aunt Sis broke her hip. And they brought her back to the house and left her and went on to the reunion. And that’s about all I can say on that. Floyd telling of a broken hip hip ; reunion broken hip In this 1976 interview, Floyd Luther Blythe (1911-1994) briefly discusses some early family history outside Cato, Missouri. FB: --and of course he helped the baby up and put out the fire, and they said they sold every hog and every [indecipherable] they had and every hog and everything they had. You know, they camped on the creek there for a few days. I don&#039 ; t know how long, now. But they killed every living thing they had. He kept one horse that he traveled a little on. He took it out to the middle of the cornfield and tied it up. Corn was big and tall, you know, old horse was [inaudible] and they didn&#039 ; t tie their hogs. MM: About whereabout was that, that happened? Whereabouts did that happen? FB: That happened two miles from here, it&#039 ; s two miles east. BM: Two miles east from here. FB: Uh-huh. MM: Could you hear, were they screaming, everybody-- BM: [inaudible] could you give a pretty good description of where, where it&#039 ; s at-- FB: Well, it&#039 ; s two miles east of Cato (ph), Missouri [indecipherable] MM: Okay, now about this-- BM: Now then, how, how did you find the cemetery? MM: What was you doing-- FB: Oh-- BM: What was you doing? FB: Well, I--I don&#039 ; t know, I was over there one day haying, I think, and this cemetery was growed up in sprouts and bushes pretty thick, all in it, and I got out in there, I don&#039 ; t remember why, but I did. I got out in the brush. I found this marker, this stone that said Blythe on it. And I looked after some questions about it and found out on the [indecipherable] side of the creek there and my grandfather and grandmother. MM: I thought this was back when--I bet Georgie&#039 ; s (ph) buried there, and Mary (ph). FB: Well that, that&#039 ; s dad&#039 ; s brother. MM: Your dad&#039 ; s brother? FB: Uh-huh. MM: There&#039 ; s two Georgie&#039 ; s! (ph) FB: Oh, there is two there. MM: There&#039 ; s two of them. FB: But I don&#039 ; t know that thing was--it may have been Uncle George&#039 ; s [indecipherable]. They had about three, I think, buried there. MM: [Inaudible.] pause in tape BM: This is Floyd telling as much as he can remember on how Aunt Sis or Mary Jane got her hip broke. FB: Well, the Johns (ph) were on their way to the reunion and she somehow or another, Aunt Sis broke her hip. And they brought her back to the house and left her and went on to the reunion. And that&#039 ; s about all I can say on that. BM: Okay, that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s good enough. end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml OHP-00010-01_Floyd_Blythe.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 1600 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Floyd Luther Blythe Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, Floyd Luther Blythe (1911-1994) briefly discusses some early family history outside Cato, Missouri. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0010-01 Subject The topic of the resource Cato Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-09-21 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/af3f7521ef02b10c14ecf1acd9e83a9a.jpg 2f8d03aa1f5fc1487b1e7799d32770ba Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0010-02_Ruth_Stumpff.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Cato OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0010-02 Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff OHP-00010-02 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Family Histories Cato Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|22(10)|33(3)|44(14)|74(8)|84(6)|96(3)|109(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0010-02 Stumpff, Ruth Hailey.mp3 Other audio 0 Blythe Family BM: This is a history affair with Mrs. Dewey MM: Her name is-- RS: Well, I think you look like Gary Hall! MM: --Ruth Stumpff. Go on, say Ruth Stumpff. This is Ruth Stumpff. RS: Ruth Hailey Stumpff! (ph) BM: Okay, this is an interview with Ruth Hailey Stumpff (ph) here in Cato, Missouri on the morning of the 20th—21st day of September 1989. Memories of the Blythe family buggy ; Cato, Missouri ; fence ; horse back ; Ruth Stumpff ; William Blythe ; wood fence Blythe ; rail fence 207 Boyfriends, marriage, and children BM: What about, did you flirt with the boys? RS: And count— BM: Did you flirt with the boys? RS: We, we claimed ‘em! BM: Oh, you claimed the boys! Memories of boyfriends and flirting boys ; flirt ; Ozark Hills ; Sam Blythe Boyfriends ; Ozark Hills 349 Mary Jane Wilson MM: What about Aunt Sis (ph)? RS: Oh yeah, I’m—Aunt Sis Wilson, she was a neighbor of ours and she was a tall, hands—tall, beautiful lady and in her elderly days she lived alone right about a mile and a half from us and she—the way I remember her best is when I would kick along to school when I was near the eighth grade, Sis would come along now, what was her other name? Sis, or? Memories of a neighbor, Mary Jane Wilson Absalom Stubblefield ; cuff sleeves ; Sis Wilson Sis Wilson In this 1976 interview, Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff (1896-1990) briefly discusses the Blythe family history outside Cato, Missouri.  BM: This is a history affair with Mrs. Dewey MM: Her name is-- RS: Well, I think you look like Gary Hall! MM: --Ruth Stumpff. Go on, say Ruth Stumpff. This is Ruth Stumpff. RS: Ruth Hailey Stumpff! (ph) BM: Okay, this is an interview with Ruth Hailey Stumpff (ph) here in Cato, Missouri on the morning of the 20th--21st day of September 1989. MM: Seven! BM: Or &#039 ; 87. We&#039 ; ll get this right, here directly. Now, Ruth, you said that you have some history on William J. Whit Blythe (ph) family. So at this time will you repeat the history that you have for me. RS: Oh, they lived about this--Whit Blythe&#039 ; s (ph) family lived about two miles from my home at Cato, Missouri. Now, then, we were together a lot in those days because families visited then. And the girls and we--how many, let&#039 ; s see, how many were, there were seven--seven of those children who lived with us. Well, so we were together quite often, we had good times. And we were country girls and we knew what the country was like and we liked to do things that the country did, so those girls&#039 ; d come over to our house and we&#039 ; d go down to their house and we had to cross a creek and we&#039 ; d ride a horse back down there or either go in a buggy. And those girls&#039 ; d come up here on horseback. Alright. And we would get out and play and romp around in the woods a little, pastures. And one girl that--we had real fences then, made out of trees that were split--and this one girl, Emma Blythe, could--could jump over a rail fence without ever touching it. That was, that was one of my best things of remembering the Blythe girls, is that she jumped over the fence without touching it. And now then, MM: On that [inaudible] BM: Now then, Mrs. Hailey, what was all those kids&#039 ; names? What was all of Whit Blythe&#039 ; s (ph) kids&#039 ; names to the best that you remember? RS: They were Martha, let&#039 ; s see, Martha, Emma, and Molly May (ph), and Mary Ellen, Charles H. (ph), Laura I. (ph), James Bryce (ph), Carl B. (ph), and Bertha E. (ph). That was the name of the Whit Blythe (ph) family. Now those girls and the Hailey, I was a Hailey before I married [indecipherable], and those girls and we were together just any time, oh, every Sunday or every other Sunday. Or more often than that. So we would go out into the wild woods and enough wildflowers and listen to the birds sing and we had real fences then-- BM: What about, did you flirt with the boys? RS: And count-- BM: Did you flirt with the boys? RS: We, we claimed &#039 ; em! BM: Oh, you claimed the boys! RS: We just claimed &#039 ; em. BM: Which one of the Blythe boys was your boyfriend? RS: Cliff. BM: Oh, Cliff. Cliff&#039 ; s a good one. RS: I [indecipherable] about Cliff. BM: Oh, okay. RS: (laughs) And he was my boyfriend and my sister, younger than me, my baby sister, she and Dewey (ph) went together. They were real sweet on each other. And then my sister Celie (ph), older, married Whit Blythe&#039 ; s (ph) brother, Sam Blythe&#039 ; s son, oldest son, Clete (ph) Blythe. So the Blythes and the Haileys are connected. And I now, my sister, Celie (ph) that married the Blythe is dead and her husband Clete (ph) is dead. But they had three children and--two girls and a boy that the girls are yet living, one lives in Haskell (ph), Missouri and her name is Helen Blythe Neely (ph) and the other girl lives in Republic, Missouri close to Springfield and her name is--well--Colleen (ph). I named her Haddock (ph). Colleen Blythe Haddock (ph). She married a Haddock. And I named her Colleen because I had a girlfriend in school that I liked and I called her--I named this girl Colleen. Now then, the two girls are alive and the little boy died in infancy. And now, that&#039 ; s the--Sam Blythe, he&#039 ; s a relative to Whit (ph) Blythe. And now then, Whit Blythe (ph)--these girls and the Hailey girls were all very intimate. We, we loved each other well. And so then they, they finally left the Ozark Hills and went down into Oklahoma country. And now then, I have some of the offspring that are here today in my house in Cato, Missouri and in the house I was born in. And this house here is, is 91 years old and it was built by a Chicago carpenter and it&#039 ; s built like the houses down in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. MM: What about Aunt Sis (ph)? RS: Oh yeah, I&#039 ; m--Aunt Sis Wilson, she was a neighbor of ours and she was a tall, hands--tall, beautiful lady and in her elderly days she lived alone right about a mile and a half from us and she--the way I remember her best is when I would kick along to school when I was near the eighth grade, Sis would come along now, what was her other name? Sis, or? MM: Mary Jane. RS: Or Mary Jane, but her--we kind of named her Sis and I just never did--Sis Wilson. She married a Wilson and she lived there alone and I&#039 ; d meet her on the road and she had on a beautiful dress with cuff sleeves and long sleeves and the way I remember most about her dressing--instead of having buttons down the front of her dress she had just straight pins about an inch apart all along down the front of her dress and that always attracted me. When I think of her I think of those pins. And finally, she died and her son came and got her and took her to Oklahoma and gave her a very wonderful burial--a over $600 burial. And so that&#039 ; s my way of remembering. And then they are tied up with one of our neighbors who was called Absalom (ph) Stubblefield. And this is, this is the record as much as I can tell about the [indecipherable] went to Oklahoma. end interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0010-02_Ruth_Stumpff.xml OHP-0010-02_Ruth_Stumpff.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 6100 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, Ruth Vermont (Hailey) Stumpff (1896-1990) briefly discusses the Blythe family history outside Cato, Missouri. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-00010-02 Subject The topic of the resource Family Histories Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-09-21 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/95af63492ca087da6ff78344917db4d0.jpg 5df859174cbdae685f6069a9c4637ecc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pinehill Histories Subject The topic of the resource History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow Description An account of the resource Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Leo Frank Bruce OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0012-01_Leo_Bruce.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Pinehill oil OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0012-01 Leo Frank Bruce OHP-0012-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community and School Pinehill oil Leo Frank Bruce Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|28(7)|60(9)|78(12)|100(9)|122(15)|142(8)|165(10)|205(2)|229(4)|247(8)|258(8)|279(1)|314(10)|345(3)|358(4)|383(7)|409(1)|420(8)|439(11)|471(2)|496(2)|518(4)|546(8)|572(15)|598(15)|607(2)|614(14)|631(13)|647(4)|650(11)|661(13)|671(7)|693(3)|712(3)|727(1)|745(11)|759(8)|777(14)|785(8)|798(3)|810(5)|827(4)|847(12)|858(7)|876(6)|885(4)|905(9)|925(7) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0012-01 Bruce, Leo.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History BM: This is [indecipherable], 10—or 11/12/1976, ten minutes until four o’clock. Leo, whenever— MM: What was [inaudible] BM: What was your mother and dad’s name? Leo Bruce discusses his family history Abner Bruce ; Clarence Bruce ; Ella May ; Leo Frank Family History 158 Pinehill School BM: You stated here a while back, Leo, that you remembered when the first school was built there. LB: Well, I should be able to give you that [indecipherable] description, but I can’t and I don’t know— BM: Why, Leo, we—we uh— Discussion of the first Pinehill School being built Pinehill ; Pinehill School ; schoolhouse Pinehill School 240 Location of Childhood Home BM: At that time, Leo, where did your parents live? LB: They lived—well, now, they lived in a little—I’m turned around. I get my directions crossed up there. But the road that goes down to, past where Abner Bruce lives now? Well they lived on down that road at the foot of that hill, you know, there’s quite a hill there. Discussion of the location of his childhood home 1908 ; log home ; statehood childhood home 359 Pinehill School and Teachers BM: Tell us about what’s in that first schoolhouse being built. LB: Well, I was so small it’s hard for me to— MM: Tell us--you kind of played around it, [inaudible] while they was building it [inaudible]. Discussion of building of Pinehill School and teachers Nell Evans ; Nell Watson ; Pinehill School ; schoolhouse ; Witty McKeehan Pinehill School ; Teachers 511 Pinehill Classmates and Teachers BM: Who all went to school with you there at that time, Leo? That you can remember? LB: Well, that was— BM: Take your time now, and think. Memories of classmates and teachers and Pinehill School Big Mosquitoes ; Biggs ; Bill McEwan ; Charlie Stubblefield ; Clarence Myers ; classmates ; Ernest Sawell ; Frank Bruce ; Leo Pinehill ; Letch Stubblefield ; Mayes ; Pinehill ; Rosie Lindsey ; Sammy Stubblefield ; Tom McEwan ; Will Wilson ; Willie Mayes classmates ; Pinehill School ; Teachers 814 Moving back to Pinehill and running a store BM: In later years, then, Leo, in later years you went to—you came back in that country. You came back in that country. Did you or did you not? LB: Yes, it was several— BM: In later years, several, several years after that— LB: In later years. Discussion of moving back to Pinehill and opening a store armistice ; canned goods ; Coleman Bruce ; flour ; Pinehill ; Polecat Bridge ; tobacco Pinehill ; store 976 Father as County Clerk BM: When your parents moved into the Sapulpa area, what did your father—what was your father’s occupation at that time? LB: Well, of course he was a farmer, well then he was elected. He ran for county clerk. And he was elected county clerk. BM: He was elected country clerk. MM: What year? Leo Bruce's father is county clerk County Clerk ; election ; term county clerk 1090 Marriage and Children MM: What did your mom and dad do? Did they move back to the Pinehill community? LB: No. BM: At the present time, do you still-you still own some land out in that part, do you or do you not, Leo? LB: Yes. BM: Let’s back up. What year, Leo, did you get married? Discussion of marriage and children Cherry Creek ; Elesia Montaguerrez ; Francisca Alexius ; Ida Shockley ; Kay Don Bruce ; Robert Bruce ; Troy Livingston children ; marriage 1268 Locations of Pinehill Schools MM: How many Pinehill school buildings do you remember? [Inaudible.] LB: Well I don’t know whether there’d have been three, there were three, wasn’t there? BM: Well we’ve got reports of three, we’ve got reports of four, so we don’t know. MM: The one that [inaudible]— Discussion of the locations of the Pinehill Schools John Rossander ; Pinehill ; Pinehill school Pinehill School 1375 Creek County Sheriff BM: Was your dad—wasn’t your dad elected to a term as sheriff? In Creek County? LB: Yes, he served two terms as sheriff. BM: He served two terms as sheriff of Creek County. Well then, he was—that was in what year, Leo? Do you remember? LB: No, I don’t. I’m not sure, I’d have to look that up. Leo Bruce's father as Creek County Sheriff Creek County ; Sheriff Sheriff 1506 Activities at Pinehill School BM: --I never had got that off any of the, anybody else but you. (pause) Is there any funnies that you can—that you remember that went on at the school during your school days there? Is there anything, any funny happened that you remember? LB: Well, I can’t think of anything amusing right now. BM: To you memory, then, what, what all was the school used for, Leo? LB: It was—they had church there a lot, as I remember it, and then they had a literary society there in the community. I can remember those meetings were a lot. They’d have—they’d come in there of an evening and I guess they had a certain night of the week that they’d have the literary but I can’t remember when. Activities held at Pinehill School church ; dialogues ; kangaroo court ; literary ; Pinehill School ; recitations ; schoolhouse ; Virgil Vann ; voting Activities ; Pinehill School ; schoolhouse 1721 Family Tree MM: As far as we know, and as far as we’ve been able to tell, Leo, you were the first white child born in that community. Leo Frank Bruce. And you was born (pause) what the date was—10/01/1897. October the— LB: Ten the eighteenth. The family tree of Leo Bruce Abner Louis Bruce ; Adam Bruce ; Alpha Bruce ; Alpha Stephens ; Balsora Dalton ; Coleman Bruce ; Jonathon Bruce ; Katie Bruce ; Leo Frank Bruce ; Morton Bruce ; Pleasant Bruce ; Richard Bruce ; Susan Bruce ; Wesley Bruce Family Tree ; Leo Bruce 1901 Pinehill Memories and a Story of Shoes for a Dog LB: Well I was—I don’t know how to describe it. I really liked the community out there, you know, and of course the mental [indecipherable] child, why, they usually appreciate or like the child more than they do after they get grown and have to get out and face the— BM: Face the world. LB: --cold, cold world. MM: Well, you were never really apart from it. Your folks has always been there, you’ve been back and forth the whole dang—your life, haven’t you? Memories of growing up in Pinehill and a story about shoes for a hunting dog Coleman Bruce ; community ; dog ; fish ; Heyburn ; hunting ; Pinehill ; Polecat ; shoes ; swimming hole memories ; Pinehill 2200 Oil Industry and Crossing a Cold Creek MM: Do you remember any of the early oil industry in there, or anything like that? LB: Well now, see, when I had the store out there they had a (pause) I think they called it a booster station, didn’t they, the Texas Oil Company had a station right down below the hill there from where the store was. BM: Be out west. Discussion of early business including oil and crossing a cold cree, creek ; Oil ; oil industry ; Old Stockade House ; pipeline ; Polecat ; telegraph operator ; Texas Oil Company creek ; oil 2488 Surrey with a Fringe on Top MM: I believe you told me one time about you and Charlie Blythe watching the first surrey with a fringe on top. Do you remember that? It was there at your grandpa’s, and— LB: Yes, I just barely, I can remember. Well, I can remember that was kind of a, kind of a meeting place for a lot of people over the country there at my grandparents’ house. I think Charlie—seems like I can remember Charlie stopping in there more than once— MM: What about surrey with a fringe on top? Memories of seeing a surrey with fringe on top Charlie Blythe ; Cherry Creek ; fringe ; surrey Surrey 2556 Talks of Visiting and the Location of Leo Bruce's Property BM: You can still drive down—or you could, you could still drive down to that old crossing there on Cherry Creek. You could here a few years back. I don’t know whether you still can or not. Down by where the Old Stockade House was. There was a cross there, that was the roadway where the crossing was there on Cherry Creek, went right down to Polecat, on down to just above what they call the lower falls. LB: Those lower falls, I don’t know if I was ever right at that location or not. But I can remember the people speaking of the lower falls and— Discussion of visiting the Pinehill area and the location of Leo Bruce's property Cherry Creek ; Dan Masterson ; lower falls ; Loyd Bruce ; Mastersons ; Old Stockade House ; Pinehill ; Polecate ; Roy Bruce Pinehill ; property records In this 1976 interview, Leo Frank Bruce (1897-1990), the first white child born in the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma, describes his life in the area prior to statehood including their early home structures and the approximate location of their homesteads. He also identifies some of the first schoolteachers and his schoolmates in the community. He discusses talks about running a small dry goods store prior to refrigeration/electricity, his family’s subsequent move to Sapulpa when his father was elected as the first Creek County clerk, and subsequently as the Creek County sheriff. Finally, he describes social events in the Pinehill community such as literaries, fishing, and the first time he ever saw a surrey with a fringe on top. BM: This is [indecipherable], 10--or 11/12/1976, ten minutes until four o&#039 ; clock. Leo, whenever-- MM: What was [inaudible] BM: What was your mother and dad&#039 ; s name? LB: My dad&#039 ; s name was Abner, his middle initial was L.--Abner L. Bruce, but he was just known as Abner, you know, mainly everyone knew him as Abner Bruce. Now, my mother&#039 ; s name was Ella May. I don&#039 ; t remember how she spelled it--whether she spelled it M-A-Y or M-A-E, probably with a Y. I think they most--heared it spelled it back in those days. BM: Her maiden name was what? LB: Stowe. BM: Stowe. LB: S-T-O-W-E. BM: How many children were to that marriage, Leo? LB: Well, there were three children. Is it too warm in here for you folks? BM: No, it&#039 ; s fine for me. UM: It&#039 ; s a little bit too warm for me, but [inaudible]. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: There were three children to that marriage. LB: Yes. BM: And their names were what, Leo? LB: Well, let&#039 ; s see--let me get the Bible. BM: Okay. pause in recording BM: There were three children. LB: Iva&#039 ; s the oldest. Leo Frank. MM: Born in what year? BM: What year were you born, Leo? LB: Oh, in 1897. BM: 1897. LB: October the 18th. BM: Then? LB: Then Clarence Bruce was born March 3, 1902. And he died in infancy, didn&#039 ; t live but a few days. And there was a girl born, oh the first--no, she was born February 4, 1906, and she didn&#039 ; t--she died in infancy. She died May 1, 1906, that same year. MM: You were the sole-- BM: You&#039 ; re the sole, you are the only one that-- LB: The only child. BM: The only child. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: You stated here a while back, Leo, that you remembered when the first school was built there. LB: Well, I should be able to give you that [indecipherable] description, but I can&#039 ; t and I don&#039 ; t know-- BM: Why, Leo, we--we uh-- LB: [inaudible] BM: --we have the-- LB: --already-- BM: --we have the description and all of that. You stated, though, that you remembered when the first school was--first schoolhouse was built. Is that right? LB: Yes, sir. BM: Any particular thing happen during the building of that school that you remember of? LB: Nothing that was really of importance. I knew that I was just very small boy and I was standing around and getting where I was in the way when they were--the people were putting up the school, building the school. And they--some of them got after me for being in the way there, I can remember that part of it. BM: At that time, Leo, where did your parents live? LB: They lived--well, now, they lived in a little--I&#039 ; m turned around. I get my directions crossed up there. But the road that goes down to, past where Abner Bruce lives now? Well they lived on down that road at the foot of that hill, you know, there&#039 ; s quite a hill there. BM: Yeah. On that hill there. LB: Mmm-hmm. They lived on the, right past Abner&#039 ; s. They lived on the left. BM: On the left-hand side-- LB: Left-hand side of the road right at the foot of the hill. BM: Right at the foot of that hill. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: That would be on the north side of the road there, then. What&#039 ; s that road run east, east and west. They lived here right at the foot of the hill, then, before they got down to that little creek where Frank&#039 ; s house was. Is that right? LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm. BM: What type of a house was that, Leo? LB: It was a log a house. BM: It was a log house. So, how many rooms was it? LB: I believe it was just two rooms. BM: How long did they live there in that house? LB: They lived there until statehood, you know, more of [indecipherable]. What would&#039 ; ve been the election, you know, when they--in the fall of the year before statehood, would&#039 ; ve been 1907, and I think statehood was January 1908. And they moved to Sapulpa in the fall of the year prior to statehood. BM: They moved to Sapulpa prior to statehood. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Tell us about what&#039 ; s in that first schoolhouse being built. LB: Well, I was so small it&#039 ; s hard for me to-- MM: Tell us--you kind of played around it, [inaudible] while they was building it [inaudible]. LB: Well, I can&#039 ; t remember that the--it was just out in open land, there, you know, and I don&#039 ; t know whether they had any fences to speak of at that time that cut through there. Maybe it was just open land and I was just--didn&#039 ; t have anything else to do that I would just, just knew of the men that were working there and a big part of the time I was in their way. MM: And they kind of chased you off. BM: Uh-- MM: And you started school in the year-- BM: You started to school there when the--in that year of 19--when the first school opened, then. Is that right? LB: Yes. BM: And that teacher-- LB: Well, it must&#039 ; ve been Nell Evans (ph). BM: Nell Evans (ph)? Or Nell Watson (ph)? LB: Nell, Nell Watson (ph), now wasn&#039 ; t she-- BM: She was the one that was in 1903. LB: --wasn&#039 ; t her maiden name Evans? BM: Well I--it could&#039 ; ve been, I don&#039 ; t know. LB: And I think she married a Watson there in Bristow, could that be right? LB: Well, now that, that-- MM: No, Nell Evans was the third one. BM: Nell Evans was the third teacher down. LB: Oh, well-- MM: Might be the same one if she-- LB: I&#039 ; m, I&#039 ; m sorry--Witty McKeehan (ph) was the first teacher that, wasn&#039 ; t that right? MM: No, Nell Watson-- BM: Nell Watson and then Witty McKeehan (ph) was the second teacher. LB: Is that right. Well, I don&#039 ; t believe I went to school with a teacher Nell Watson on my time, I can&#039 ; t remember that. Because I always had the impression that--well, Witty (ph) and I talked about it, but I told people that Witty (ph) was my first schoolteacher. BM: Mmm-hmm. LB: But that might&#039 ; ve been wrong, but as I remembered it, and I can remember with Witty (ph) teaching school there, and I was thinking that he was my first schoolteacher. MM: And what do you remember about Witty (ph)? BM: What do you remember about Witty McKeehan (ph) as a teacher? LB: Well, I thought that--of course, it was easy for me to somehow make an impression on me, you know, but I thought he was really smart. (laughs) MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Who all went to school with you there at that time, Leo? That you can remember? LB: Well, that was-- BM: Take your time now, and think. LB: It&#039 ; s hard to remember many of them because they&#039 ; re so--there was a family by the name of Campbell. I don&#039 ; t remember for sure how they spelled their name, I think it was C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L Campbell. I think they went to school there. And there was (pause) and there was two (pause) I want to say scholars, pupils, that were, they were practically grown. [Indecipherable] a boy and a girl, they--they were--to me they were man and a woman. BM: Mmm-hmm. LB: --went to school there, and I can remember that. And then there was, I think there was more than one Stubblefield, I believe. There&#039 ; s a Charlie Stubblefield, I think Charlie Stubblefield is still there, and there&#039 ; s--we knew him as Letch, was that his actual name? BM: I have a Letch Stubblefield-- LB: Letch Stubblefield. BM: There was a Letch Stubblefield as well as a Charlie Stubblefield. LB: And then Sam, there was a Sammy Stubblefield. Those three might&#039 ; ve gone to school there. And I&#039 ; m pretty sure Clarence Myers went to school there. And the Mayes (ph) children, Miss [indecipherable] Mayes (ph) was [indecipherable] a teacher there. And her brother, Willie, his name was Willie Mayes (ph), they went to school there. And a Tom McEwan (ph), I think his father&#039 ; s name was Billy--Bill McEwan (ph), he would&#039 ; ve been a nephew to the teacher, Woody. BM: To Woody. LB: [inaudible] Now that first year I can&#039 ; t be sure about that but those are the pupils that I remember that went to school to Pinehill there in the early days. And Rosie Lindsey (ph) went to school there. And she was always in school. That was before she and Frank Bruce were married. BM: Your mother taught school there too, in case you hadn&#039 ; t-- LB: That&#039 ; s right. BM: Do you have any idea--there had been a story and we had been told that she didn&#039 ; t complete her term there for some reason or other. Do you have any idea what that reason was, Leo? LB: Well, it&#039 ; s possible that it could&#039 ; ve been her--they moved to Sapulpa there. I don&#039 ; t know. MM: No, that she-- BM: No, they said something about her health or something or other, about that time. LB: Can&#039 ; t remember that. BM: Clarence Myers was the one that told us that. Now, could it have been possible that it could&#039 ; ve been on the count of the youngest girl. LB: That&#039 ; s possible. [inaudible] BM: I believe on her-- LB: It was 1906 when she died, that-- BM: Yeah, in 1906. So it&#039 ; s very possible then, that the reason your mother didn&#039 ; t complete that term of school was on the count of your sister. LB: I don&#039 ; t know. MM: Do you remember Ernest Sawell? BM: Do you remember Ernst Sawell? S-A-W-E-L-L? LB: No, I don&#039 ; t recall. MM: He finished the term [inaudible]. BM: He finished the term, that term, for your mother. That was according to Clarence Myers. MM: Do you remember Will D. Wilson (ph)? LB: [Indecipherable.] BM: He came in, Will D. came in, after your mother taught there. LB: It was the next term, probably, wasn&#039 ; t it. BM: And Ernest Sawell, the next term, well then Will D. Wilson came in and taught the next term. LB: Hmm. Well I--you asked who went to school there, I&#039 ; m sure Leo Pinehill went to school there. MM: Yes, [inaudible]. LB: And [indecipherable] probably Mary and-- MM: Mary. BM: The--all three of those kids. LB: --Pinehill children. UW: I don&#039 ; t know whether the Biggs went that early or not. And some of the Big Mosquitoes (ph). LB: [Inaudible.] BM: In later years, then, Leo, in later years you went to--you came back in that country. You came back in that country. Did you or did you not? LB: Yes, it was several-- BM: In later years, several, several years after that-- LB: In later years. MM: About what year was that? BM: About what year was did you come back out in there, Leo? LB: Oh, (pause). When was the [indecipherable] war, well that&#039 ; s--I just read it in the history--day before [indecipherable], World War I? When the armistice was signed? MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Nineteen-eighteen or 1919. LB: It was about two or three years before that, prior to that, that I was out there. BM: Was any you--when you came back out there, then, where did you, where did you move to at that time? LB: Oh, I just stayed there with my grandparents, Coley Bruce--Coleman Bruce. And I ran a store for a few years. BM: You ran a store there. Alright, where was that store located at? LB: It was about--how far would it be from where the last school was there east across--just across Polecat Bridge there, and about a quarter-- MM: Quarter east and a quarter north-- BM: No, half east and a quarter north-- MM: Half a mile east and quarter north. BM: Half east and a quarter north. MM: Alright, what kind of store, how big a store, tell us about it. BM: How big a store was that, Leo? LB: Oh I just--couldn&#039 ; t really call it a store, it was more--in this day and time you&#039 ; d think of it more as a concession stand because we had no refrigeration, you know, and didn&#039 ; t even keep ice, but about all I kept was flour and canned goods and stuff that was not perishable, couldn&#039 ; t spoil. And tobacco, cans of tobacco. MM: How long did you run it? LB: Didn&#039 ; t even have, didn&#039 ; t even have sodee pop. (laughs) BM: How long did you run that store, Leo? LB: I think it was a little over two years. BM: When your parents moved into the Sapulpa area, what did your father--what was your father&#039 ; s occupation at that time? LB: Well, of course he was a farmer, well then he was elected. He ran for county clerk. And he was elected county clerk. BM: He was elected country clerk. MM: What year? BM: What year was he elected county clerk? LB: Well, that would&#039 ; ve been in 1907, wouldn&#039 ; t that be right? Nineteen-seven, prior to statehood. Statehood I think was January 1908. MM: How many years did he serve? LB: He served seven years [inaudible]. The election they held before statehood--or the first election as I remember it was an off year, and when they had the next election why, they held it when--on the regular year that the elections have always been held since and the [inaudible]-- BM: On an even year, then. LB: --the terms were two years, two year terms. And his first term as I remember it was only a year there. He just served a year until the next election and then it was like a regular term, for two more terms. BM: Now he was elected down near the--the first term, then, he would&#039 ; ve been elected. He went in, then in about 1909. His first term would&#039 ; ve been about 1909. MM: No, 1907-- LB: A full term. BM: A full term, first year--first term. MM: What did your mom and dad do? Did they move back to the Pinehill community? LB: No. BM: At the present time, do you still-you still own some land out in that part, do you or do you not, Leo? LB: Yes. BM: Let&#039 ; s back up. What year, Leo, did you get married? LB: That would&#039 ; ve been 19--(pauses), that would be 1927. It was [indecipherable]. MM: He was married October 18, 18--no. LB: It may not give it. MM: March 26, 1927. LB: [Inaudible.] BM: And what was her name? LB: Ida Shockley. BM: Ida Shockley. And to that marriage how many children were there, Leo? LB: Two. BM: Two. What were their-- LB: Two boys. BM: Two boys. What were their names? LB: Kaye Don, K-A-Y-E Don D-O-N, Kaye Don Bruce, and Robert Bruce. BM: Kaye Don and Robert Bruce. Are those children still alive? LB: Yes. BM: Where is Kaye Don at, at the present time? LB: He&#039 ; s in Richmond, Washington. State of Washington. BM: And Robert? LB: He&#039 ; s in Mexico City. BM: Mexico City. He&#039 ; s down with all them pretty senoritas, then. LB: Well, both those boys married senoritas. BM: Oh, they did! MM: Kaye Don was married to Francisca Alexius (ph) and Robert married Elesia Montaguerrez (ph). BM: Kaye Don, I know, went to school out here. I remember Kaye Don going to school out there at Pinehill. LB: [inaudible] that&#039 ; s right. BM: Kaye Don went to school out there. LB: About one year. BM: Yeah, and he--at that time, I think, my best memory, it was just--you lived just west of Cherry Creek (ph) on the south side of the road. In later years the house burned. Troy Livingston (ph)-- LB: Was living in there-- BM: Troy and Plessie (ph) was living in the house when it burned. I believe it&#039 ; s right, is that-- LB: That&#039 ; s right, that&#039 ; s right. MM: How many Pinehill school buildings do you remember? [Inaudible.] LB: Well I don&#039 ; t know whether there&#039 ; d have been three, there were three, wasn&#039 ; t there? BM: Well we&#039 ; ve got reports of three, we&#039 ; ve got reports of four, so we don&#039 ; t know. MM: The one that [inaudible]-- BM: But when do you remember the ones that you remember, Leo? Where were they located at? LB: West--well the first one, of course, was there at the crossroads where--and the next one was (pause) Well, you see, the next one as I remember it was a higher elevation than the last one. BM: Yeah. LB: It was kind of up on the hill-- BM: It would&#039 ; ve been a mile--the second one that you remember would&#039 ; ve been a mile north and about a quarter of a mile west of where the first schoolhouse was built. Then the third one was built down in under the hill. LB: As I remember-- BM: Is that--that&#039 ; s the way you-- LB: As I remember it, yes, but if there were four buildings, why-- MM: The first one apparently-- LB: --that could&#039 ; ve been crossed up some way there, see. BM: The first one-- MM: The one they think was the second one only lasted three years before it was burned, from 1909 to 1912. LB: Could it&#039 ; ve been where the last one burned? And then-- MM: No, one was a quarter of a mile--a mile south of the last one and about--what, a quarter east? BM: The first one, from the first school house, where the first one was built, was a mile south and about a quarter east, kind of sitting on the hill up there on the prairie. Was the third where you remember the first one being built, is that right? That would be at the crossroads. LB: That&#039 ; s right. BM: That would be a mile south of the last schoolhouse. LB: That&#039 ; s right. BM: And about a quarter east. Or was it right in the corner? LB: Seems to me like it was right at the road, almost at the road there. BM: Well on this, that would be the one John Rossander was talking about, then. MM: John Rossander says he can show you the foundation, he must know. LB: I guess so. MM: &#039 ; Course he-- BM: So then they tell me that there was another one built up on top of the hill, which would be east of the one on the crossroads. LB: [Inaudible] it&#039 ; s possible, but I wouldn&#039 ; t remember that. BM: Was your dad--wasn&#039 ; t your dad elected to a term as sheriff? In Creek County? LB: Yes, he served two terms as sheriff. BM: He served two terms as sheriff of Creek County. Well then, he was--that was in what year, Leo? Do you remember? LB: No, I don&#039 ; t. I&#039 ; m not sure, I&#039 ; d have to look that up. BM: Well they did Mote-- LB: Mote ran for sheriff but he-- BM: After Abner was-- LB: After Abner served just two terms, yes. BM: That&#039 ; s what I--that&#039 ; s the way I remember it but I never had got that-- LB: That&#039 ; s right. BM: --I never had got that off any of the, anybody else but you. (pause) Is there any funnies that you can--that you remember that went on at the school during your school days there? Is there anything, any funny happened that you remember? LB: Well, I can&#039 ; t think of anything amusing right now. BM: To you memory, then, what, what all was the school used for, Leo? LB: It was--they had church there a lot, as I remember it, and then they had a literary society there in the community. I can remember those meetings were a lot. They&#039 ; d have--they&#039 ; d come in there of an evening and I guess they had a certain night of the week that they&#039 ; d have the literary but I can&#039 ; t remember when. BM: We&#039 ; ve got different reports on these literaries, but we never have really pinpointed it down to just what all went on at these literaries. LB: I can remember they had the dialogues and recitations and they&#039 ; d have songs. They didn&#039 ; t have a musical instrument there, but I think sometimes someone would try to sing a song, I can remember that. But the main thing that I remember was the recitations and dialogues and I can&#039 ; t remember--I can&#039 ; t remember the church meetings so well. That--I&#039 ; m sure that they did have church in the first building. BM: Also we have been told that it was used for a voting precinct in later years. It was used as a voting precinct. And in the early days they held court in that school. Do you know anything about that? LB: No. BM: We&#039 ; ve been told something about a kangaroo court and I&#039 ; ve tried to pinpoint that down. LB: Mm-hmm. No. BM: I forgot now who it was that--Virgil Vann, I believe it was, that was telling us about the kangaroo court, but I never could get him pinned down. Tried to find out if the kangaroo courts--that they put on during one of these literaries meetings or whether it was a real honest to goodness kangaroo court. But I&#039 ; ve never been able to get it pinned down. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Okay. MM: As far as we know, and as far as we&#039 ; ve been able to tell, Leo, you were the first white child born in that community. Leo Frank Bruce. And you was born (pause) what the date was--10/01/1897. October the-- LB: Ten the eighteenth. MM: --ninety-seven. Your father was Abner Louis Bruce and he was born 09/23/1871, died 01/18/1952. His brothers were Frank--James Franklin, J. Smith, and Moten R. and Roy Clyde and his sister was Cora Belle. Your mother was Ella May Stowe, she was born 06/27/1876 and died 05/09/1948. Your grandfather was Coleman Robert Bruce, he was born in 1847 and died in 1926. His broth--your uncles and aunts was--his brothers and sisters was Pleasant Alfred, James A. (ph), John H. (ph), Richard H., Moten (ph), Charles F. (ph), Wesley A., George Washington (ph), Adam Vivian, Alpha Ann, Laura E. (ph), Susie Jane, Dora Ree (ph) and Katie V. LB: There was a bunch of them. MM: And his wife was Alpha Ann Moore, she was born in 1848 and died in 1923. Your grandfather--your great-greatfather, then, was James Thomas Bruce, he was born August 1824 and married in March 1846, he married Francis S. Vivian pause in recording as tape switches to Side B MM: --Bruce was born December 1802 and died March 1885, he was married Elizabeth L. Swinney and I think that&#039 ; s enough of the tree to go back on there. I just found the tree on his father&#039 ; s side. His mother&#039 ; s tree is here also but I don&#039 ; t think we&#039 ; ll run anything on it. This was from Leo Bruce&#039 ; s family Bible. Leo, what do you remember--what did you think about Pinehill? What does it mean to you? LB: Well I was--I don&#039 ; t know how to describe it. I really liked the community out there, you know, and of course the mental [indecipherable] child, why, they usually appreciate or like the child more than they do after they get grown and have to get out and face the-- BM: Face the world. LB: --cold, cold world. MM: Well, you were never really apart from it. Your folks has always been there, you&#039 ; ve been back and forth the whole dang--your life, haven&#039 ; t you? LB: Mmm-hmm. Yeah, I remember several times that we moved to town here, why, during my school vacation, why, I would go out there and when I&#039 ; d go out there, why, I planned to stay all summer! And spend the summer vacation out there. But just a little while I, I&#039 ; d get homesick, I&#039 ; d want to see my folks and come back to Sapulpa and that, that&#039 ; d be about the end of my vacation. BM: About the end of your vacation. MM: What&#039 ; d you do on vacation out there? LB: Well, they--I pretended to help a little with the farming and I remember my grandfather Coleman Bruce, he and I fished a lot and I really enjoyed that. MM: Where&#039 ; d you fish? LB: Fished in Polecat. MM: What&#039 ; d you catch? LB: Well, we didn&#039 ; t catch anything but little old--little fish. Perch and catfish. Sunfish. MM: Did you ever hunt? LB: Not much. I&#039 ; ve hunted some but I&#039 ; m not much of a hunter. MM: Where was your swimming hole? LB: Well the main swimming hole there was--it was in Polecat there, and it was just this side of where, where we lived, you know, when Don went to school there at Pinehill. Just this side there, down--walk to what would be the south side of the road there, just a little ways from the road. MM: Did you get in on them watermelon stealing on them summer vacations? LB: No, I can&#039 ; t remember stealing any watermelons. But I can remember, I can remember the Polecat there, it wasn&#039 ; t anything like it was in later years. I can remember one place on further down--can you two remember where the falls was? BM: Yes. I do. LB: I think since Heyburn&#039 ; s been built, Heyburn dam&#039 ; s been built there, I guess there&#039 ; s not any falls there anymore, it&#039 ; s filled up. But just above--just north of where the falls were there, I can remember at one time there was a big hole there and it was deep. And I can remember several times, people talking about it, that they were impressed with it--that you could take regular cane fishing pole, you know, and you couldn&#039 ; t-- BM: Couldn&#039 ; t touch bottom. LB: Couldn&#039 ; t touch bottom. BM: Now, was that the hole that they call the old Blokesie (ph) Hole? LB: I wouldn&#039 ; t know. I [inaudible]. MM: Was any hunting done, any--do you remember any hunting? LB: Well, not to speak of. I can remember my uncle Frank Bruce, I can remember that he hunted quite a bit and I can&#039 ; t be sure about that. I don&#039 ; t know--I noticed you said that in the [indecipherable] there, you read where they sold quails on the market, but I can&#039 ; t--I don&#039 ; t know if he ever sold quail on the market or not. But I can remember he had a bird dog that he was real proud of, and that poor old dog would--he hunted with him so much that he had, his feet would get sore. And I can remember he tried to--it wasn&#039 ; t a success, he couldn&#039 ; t do much good with it, but he would try to make shoes or moccasins for this poor old dog, for his feet. Course he wouldn&#039 ; t keep them, couldn&#039 ; t keep them on, you know, but that worried him a lot that-- BM: Thought the old dog&#039 ; s feet would get so sore. LB: Mmm-hmm. MM: Do you remember any of the early oil industry in there, or anything like that? LB: Well now, see, when I had the store out there they had a (pause) I think they called it a booster station, didn&#039 ; t they, the Texas Oil Company had a station right down below the hill there from where the store was. BM: Be out west. LB: And, yes, that&#039 ; s right. They worked several men, I don&#039 ; t--I can&#039 ; t remember how many men, but there were several men worked there. And I know they had a telegraph operator. Of course they had the old line that went right along with the pipeline there, you know. MM: What, did they send messages to local people if they needed it? LB: No, not much, they may have but I didn&#039 ; t hear of it. But they used it for the old business down there. But I can remember that the line walkers--they&#039 ; d have a line walker that would walk this line and I think they had [inaudible] can remember more than one line walker that they had that&#039 ; d stop in there at the store and-- MM: Do you remember any flooding caused at Polecat before the dam up in that area? LB: No, I don&#039 ; t think it flooded much but I can remember that--I can remember the creek would really get high and they had more rain than they have now. I can remember you hear could the creek roar. You could hear the roar of the waters. I remember one time, I don&#039 ; t know whether it would be of interest to you or not, it wasn&#039 ; t very important, but really made an impression on me when--you see, my grandfather, that was the house where I was born as I remember it. They referred to it as the Old Stockade House. The logs were built, or placed, up-and-down and not--how do I want to say it? Horizontal? BM: They were vertical but wasn&#039 ; t horizontal. LB: Mmm-hmm. And it was a story-and-a-half house, I guess. See, I know they had rooms or a room up above, they had a stairway I know. But I know that was the house where I was born, this Old Stockade House. Well I can remember one time my uncle Mote Bruce--we were going from that--as I remember it, now--we were, I was behind him on a horse, and we were trying to go from this Old Stockade House over to where my parents lived there at the foot of the hill where I told you about. I can remember the creek being up. And it was probably right there about where the bowl where the falls was, you can remember there was a crossing there. And I remember that he stopped there on the-- BM: Bank of the creek. LB: --other side of the bank of the creek and watched that water for, oh, several minutes. He didn&#039 ; t say anything, you know, just sit there, we sit there on the horse and just watching the water. And he finally said to me, he says, Now Leo, you hang on to me real tight, you hear? Of course that made an impression on me and I grabbed ahold of him and we slid down into the water there. And course the water came right up to our waist, you know, we were--and all you could see of the poor old horse was just his head and ears sticking up there right in front of us and I can remember the logs and stuff floating down the river, the creek there. And I can remember that horse was really pulling, but we swam the creek to get on the other side but I never knew what was so important that he had to get from my grandfather&#039 ; s house over there back to our house. He might&#039 ; ve just been wanting to get rid of me! (laughs) He swam that creek to get-- BM: He swam the creek with the old horse to-- LB: To get back to where [indecipherable]. BM: To get back-- MM: I believe you told me one time about you and Charlie Blythe watching the first surrey with a fringe on top. Do you remember that? It was there at your grandpa&#039 ; s, and-- LB: Yes, I just barely, I can remember. Well, I can remember that was kind of a, kind of a meeting place for a lot of people over the country there at my grandparents&#039 ; house. I think Charlie--seems like I can remember Charlie stopping in there more than once-- MM: What about surrey with a fringe on top? LB: --on Sundays, you know. But what I remember, one time, there was a surrey that crossed that little--there was a little--oh, we called it--it was probably Cherry Creek. It was Cherry Creek would&#039 ; ve been right there. I can remember that surrey with a fringe on top coming and crossing that creek and coming up right up by our--my grandparents&#039 ; house. MM: Was it pretty or what-- LB: But who they were--yeah, it was, I thought it was a really fancy carriage. But I can&#039 ; t remember who was driving it, who they were, or anything about it. BM: You can still drive down--or you could, you could still drive down to that old crossing there on Cherry Creek. You could here a few years back. I don&#039 ; t know whether you still can or not. Down by where the Old Stockade House was. There was a cross there, that was the roadway where the crossing was there on Cherry Creek, went right down to Polecat, on down to just above what they call the lower falls. LB: Those lower falls, I don&#039 ; t know if I was ever right at that location or not. But I can remember the people speaking of the lower falls and-- BM: Now, this next summer, when we present and dedicate this thing to the state of Oklahoma, we&#039 ; d like--I want you to come out and if the Lord is willing, I&#039 ; ll try to take you back up Polecat as far as we can and show you where the old falls that you remember crossing on the horse, where it is located today and show you where the old lower falls were there on Polecat and try to show you where the old roadway used to go down through there. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: You can drive down quite a ways down in there by where the Old Stockade House used to be. What you would--at the present time you would have to cross from where you lived there where the house burned for Troy and Plessie (ph) lived, and it burned, you would have to come back east across Cherry Creek, to Cherry Creek. There&#039 ; s Little Cherry and Big Cherry Creek. Big Cherry Creek-- LB: Yeah, that&#039 ; s what I was wondering about-- BM: Big Cherry Creek was the one that you were talking about the old crossing was down by the Old Stockade House-- MM: I don&#039 ; t think you asked him where his property he owns out there is. BM: --come back to where, oh, it&#039 ; s about two hundred yards east of Little Cherry Creek, there&#039 ; s a road that goes south, goes back off down, winds back around, down almost to where the Old Stockade House used to be. And where the old crossing was down here. At the present time I think Louis or Andrew, one of them, has it fenced in and you can&#039 ; t drive all the way down to where the old crossing was. LB: I was--oh, several times I went over there when we lived out there, you know, in the house that burned, you know, when Troy and Plessie (ph) lived there. I went there several times, I went over to that location but it&#039 ; s changed so much, it&#039 ; s-- BM: It&#039 ; s really changed now. LB: --wouldn&#039 ; t, wouldn&#039 ; t know it was the same place. BM: It&#039 ; s changed, it&#039 ; s changed altogether now to what it was then, even. MM: Ask him where his property is [inaudible]. BM: The property that you still own out there at the present time, Leo, where is it located? LB: Well, it&#039 ; s right there at the corner of the road where the road, one road goes over to what is Shepherd Point and the other [inaudible] and seventy acres. BM: You own seventy acres there. LB: But I really don&#039 ; t own that place because--see, I just had forty acres and that road goes right through that forty so forty in here a few years ago, I bought the surface thirty acres from the allottee, I forget who she was, she lives down at Okmulgee. That joins there on the west there, thirty acres, so I really have what you and me would call for seventy acres but the road takes up a lot of it, I don&#039 ; t know how many acres [inaudible]. But part of that goes right where the, goes right up where--you remember where Loyd Bruce used to live there. I don&#039 ; t know, you folks--did you ever [inaudible]. Because that&#039 ; s--oh, Mastersons lived there a while, one of them. BM: Yeah, right there in the corner, say, Roy Bruce had the house right there in the corner with a cedar tree in the yard. LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm. BM: We didn&#039 ; t live there in that corner there. Dan, Dan Masterson (ph) lived there in the corner. And Louis lived south over there on--well, just north of the Old Stockade House. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Where the Old Stockade House was. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And we lived on south down there, well it&#039 ; d just be right there on the banks of the creek. And we moved over in the field, back over west of there in a field by the old Blokesie (ph) hole, the old swimming hole. LB: Mmm-hmm. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Then we moved back up-- end of recording. BM: This is [indecipherable], 10--or 11/12/1976, ten minutes until four o'clock. Leo, whenever-- MM: What was [inaudible] BM: What was your mother and dad's name? LB: My dad's name was Abner, his middle initial was L.--Abner L. Bruce, but he was just known as Abner, you know, mainly everyone knew him as Abner Bruce. Now, my mother's name was Ella May. I don't remember how she spelled it--whether she spelled it M-A-Y or M-A-E, probably with a Y. I think they most--heared it spelled it back in those days. BM: Her maiden name was what? LB: Stowe. BM: Stowe. LB: S-T-O-W-E. BM: How many children were to that marriage, Leo? LB: Well, there were three children. Is it too warm in here for you folks? BM: No, it's fine for me. UM: It's a little bit too warm for me, but [inaudible]. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: There were three children to that marriage. LB: Yes. BM: And their names were what, Leo? LB: Well, let's see--let me get the Bible. BM: Okay. pause in recording BM: There were three children. LB: Iva's the oldest. Leo Frank. MM: Born in what year? BM: What year were you born, Leo? LB: Oh, in 1897. BM: 1897. LB: October the 18th. BM: Then? LB: Then Clarence Bruce was born March 3, 1902. And he died in infancy, didn't live but a few days. And there was a girl born, oh the first--no, she was born February 4, 1906, and she didn't--she died in infancy. She died May 1, 1906, that same year. MM: You were the sole-- BM: You're the sole, you are the only one that-- LB: The only child. BM: The only child. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: You stated here a while back, Leo, that you remembered when the first school was built there. LB: Well, I should be able to give you that [indecipherable] description, but I can't and I don't know-- BM: Why, Leo, we--we uh-- LB: [inaudible] BM: --we have the-- LB: --already-- BM: --we have the description and all of that. You stated, though, that you remembered when the first school was--first schoolhouse was built. Is that right? LB: Yes, sir. BM: Any particular thing happen during the building of that school that you remember of? LB: Nothing that was really of importance. I knew that I was just very small boy and I was standing around and getting where I was in the way when they were--the people were putting up the school, building the school. And they--come of them got after me for being in the way there, I can remember that part of it. BM: At that time, Leo, where did your parents live? LB: They lived--well, now, they lived in a little--I'm turned around. I get my directions crossed up there. But the road that goes down to, past where Abner Bruce lives now? Well they lived on down that road at the foot of that hill, you know, there's quite a hill there. BM: Yeah. On that hill there. LB: Mmm-hmm. They lived on the, right past Abner's. They lived on the left. BM: On the left-hand side-- LB: Left-hand side of the road right at the foot of the hill. BM: Right at the foot of that hill. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: That would be on the north side of the road there, then. What's that road run east, east and west. They lived here right at the foot of the hill, then, before they got down to that little creek where Frank's house was. Is that right? LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm. BM: What type of a house was that, Leo? LB: It was a log a house. BM: It was a log house. So, how many rooms was it? LB: I believe it was just two rooms. BM: How long did they live there in that house? LB: They lived there until statehood, you know, more of [indecipherable]. What would've been the election, you know, when they--in the fall of the year before statehood, would've been 1907, and I think statehood was January 1908. And they moved to Sapulpa in the fall of the year prior to statehood. BM: They moved to Sapulpa prior to statehood. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Tell us about what's in that first schoolhouse being built. LB: Well, I was so small it's hard for me to-- MM: Tell us--you kind of played around it, [inaudible] while they was building it [inaudible]. LB: Well, I can't remember that the--it was just out in open land, there, you know, and I don't know whether they had any fences to speak of at that time that cut through there. Maybe it was just open land and I was just--didn't have anything else to do that I would just, just knew of the men that were working there and a big part of the time I was in their way. MM: And they kind of chased you off. BM: Uh-- MM: And you started school in the year-- BM: You started to school there when the--in that year of 19--when the first school opened, then. Is that right? LB: Yes. BM: And that teacher-- LB: Well, it must've been Nell Evans (ph). BM: Nell Evans (ph)? Or Nell Watson (ph)? LB: Nell, Nell Watson (ph), now wasn't she-- BM: She was the one that was in 1903. LB: --wasn't her maiden name Evans? BM: Well I--it could've been, I don't know. LB: And I think she married a Watson there in Bristow, could that be right? LB: Well, now that, that-- MM: No, Nell Evans was the third one. BM: Nell Evans was the third teacher down. LB: Oh, well-- MM: Might be the same one if she-- LB: I'm, I'm sorry--Witty McKeehan (ph) was the first teacher that, wasn't that right? MM: No, Nell Watson-- BM: Nell Watson and then Witty McKeehan (ph) was the second teacher. LB: Is that right. Well, I don't believe I went to school with a teacher Nell Watson on my time, I can't remember that. Because I always had the impression that--well, Witty (ph) and I talked about it, but I told people that Witty (ph) was my first schoolteacher. BM: Mmm-hmm. LB: But that might've been wrong, but as I remembered it, and I can remember with Witty (ph) teaching school there, and I was thinking that he was my first schoolteacher. MM: And what do you remember about Witty (ph)? BM: What do you remember about Witty McKeehan (ph) as a teacher? LB: Well, I thought that--of course, it was easy for me to somehow make an impression on me, you know, but I thought he was really smart. (laughs) MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Who all went to school with you there at that time, Leo? That you can remember? LB: Well, that was-- BM: Take your time now, and think. LB: It's hard to remember many of them because they're so--there was a family by the name of Campbell. I don't remember for sure how they spelled their name, I think it was C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L Campbell. I think they went to school there. And there was (pause) and there was two (pause) I want to say scholars, pupils, that were, they were practically grown. [Indecipherable] a boy and a girl, they--they were--to me they were man and a woman. BM: Mmm-hmm. LB: --went to school there, and I can remember that. And then there was, I think there was more than one Stubblefield, I believe. There's a Charlie Stubblefield, I think Charlie Stubblefield is still there, and there's--we knew him as Letch, was that his actual name? BM: I have a Letch Stubblefield-- LB: Letch Stubblefield. BM: There was a Letch Stubblefield as well as a Charlie Stubblefield. LB: And then Sam, there was a Sammy Stubblefield. Those three might've gone to school there. And I'm pretty sure Clarence Myers went to school there. And the Mayes (ph) children, Miss [indecipherable] Mayes (ph) was [indecipherable] a teacher there. And her brother, Willie, his name was Willie Mayes (ph), they went to school there. And a Tom McEwan (ph), I think his father's name was Billy--Bill McEwan (ph), he would've been a nephew to the teacher, Woody. BM: To Woody. LB: [inaudible] Now that first year I can't be sure about that but those are the pupils that I remember that went to school to Pinehill there in the early days. And Rosie Lindsey (ph) went to school there. And she was always in school. That was before she and Frank Bruce were married. BM: Your mother taught school there too, in case you hadn't-- LB: That's right. BM: Do you have any idea--there had been a story and we had been told that she didn't complete her term there for some reason or other. Do you have any idea what that reason was, Leo? LB: Well, it's possible that it could've been her--they moved to Sapulpa there. I don't know. MM: No, that she-- BM: No, they said something about her health or something or other, about that time. LB: Can't remember that. BM: Clarence Myers was the one that told us that. Now, could it have been possible that it could've been on the count of the youngest girl. LB: That's possible. [inaudible] BM: I believe on her-- LB: It was 1906 when she died, that-- BM: Yeah, in 1906. So it's very possible then, that the reason your mother didn't complete that term of school was on the count of your sister. LB: I don't know. MM: Do you remember Ernest Sawell? BM: Do you remember Ernst Sawell? S-A-W-E-L-L? LB: No, I don't recall. MM: He finished the term [inaudible]. BM: He finished the term, that term, for your mother. That was according to Clarence Myers. MM: Do you remember Will D. Wilson (ph)? LB: [Indecipherable.] BM: He came in, Will D. came in, after your mother taught there. LB: It was the next term, probably, wasn't it. BM: And Ernest Sawell, the next term, well then Will D. Wilson came in and taught the next term. LB: Hmm. Well I--you asked who went to school there, I'm sure Leo Pinehill went to school there. MM: Yes, [inaudible]. LB: And [indecipherable] probably Mary and-- MM: Mary. BM: The--all three of those kids. LB: --Pinehill children. UW: I don't know whether the Biggs went that early or not. And some of the Big Mosquitoes (ph). LB: [Inaudible.] BM: In later years, then, Leo, in later years you went to--you came back in that country. You came back in that country. Did you or did you not? LB: Yes, it was several-- BM: In later years, several, several years after that-- LB: In later years. MM: About what year was that? BM: About what year was did you come back out in there, Leo? LB: Oh, (pause). When was the [indecipherable] war, well that's--I just read it in the history--day before [indecipherable], World War I? When the armistice was signed? MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Nineteen-eighteen or 1919. LB: It was about two or three years before that, prior to that, that I was out there. BM: Was any you--when you came back out there, then, where did you, where did you move to at that time? LB: Oh, I just stayed there with my grandparents, Coley Bruce--Coleman Bruce. And I ran a store for a few years. BM: You ran a store there. Alright, where was that store located at? LB: It was about--how far would it be from where the last school was there east across--just across Polecat Bridge there, and about a quarter-- MM: Quarter east and a quarter north-- BM: No, half east and a quarter north-- MM: Half a mile east and quarter north. BM: Half east and a quarter north. MM: Alright, what kind of store, how big a store, tell us about it. BM: How big a store was that, Leo? LB: Oh I just--couldn't really call it a store, it was more--in this day and time you'd think of it more as a concession stand because we had no refrigeration, you know, and didn't even keep ice, but about all I kept was flour and canned goods and stuff that was not perishable, couldn't spoil. And tobacco, cans of tobacco. MM: How long did you run it? LB: Didn't even have, didn't even have sodee pop. (laughs) BM: How long did you run that store, Leo? LB: I think it was a little over two years. BM: When your parents moved into the Sapulpa area, what did your father--what was your father's occupation at that time? LB: Well, of course he was a farmer, well then he was elected. He ran for county clerk. And he was elected county clerk. BM: He was elected country clerk. MM: What year? BM: What year was he elected county clerk? LB: Well, that would've been in 1907, wouldn't that be right? Nineteen-seven, prior to statehood. Statehood I think was January 1908. MM: How many years did he serve? LB: He served seven years [inaudible]. The election they held before statehood--or the first election as I remember it was an off year, and when they had the next election why, they held it when--on the regular year that the elections have always been held since and the [inaudible]-- BM: On an even year, then. LB: --the terms were two years, two year terms. And his first term as I remember it was only a year there. He just served a year until the next election and then it was like a regular term, for two more terms. BM: Now he was elected down near the--the first term, then, he would've been elected. He went in, then in about 1909. His first term would've been about 1909. MM: No, 1907-- LB: A full term. BM: A full term, first year--first term. MM: What did your mom and dad do? Did they move back to the Pinehill community? LB: No. BM: At the present time, do you still-you still own some land out in that part, do you or do you not, Leo? LB: Yes. BM: Let's back up. What year, Leo, did you get married? LB: That would've been 19--(pauses), that would be 1927. It was [indecipherable]. MM: He was married October 18, 18--no. LB: It may not give it. MM: March 26, 1927. LB: [Inaudible.] BM: And what was her name? LB: Ida Shockley. BM: Ida Shockley. And to that marriage how many children were there, Leo? LB: Two. BM: Two. What were their-- LB: Two boys. BM: Two boys. What were their names? LB: Kaye Don, K-A-Y-E Don D-O-N, Kaye Don Bruce, and Robert Bruce. BM: Kaye Don and Robert Bruce. Are those children still alive? LB: Yes. BM: Where is Kaye Don at, at the present time? LB: He's in Richmond, Washington. State of Washington. BM: And Robert? LB: He's in Mexico City. BM: Mexico City. He's down with all them pretty senoritas, then. LB: Well, both those boys married senoritas. BM: Oh, they did! MM: Kaye Don was married to Francisca Alexius (ph) and Robert married Elesia Montaguerrez (ph). BM: Kaye Don, I know, went to school out here. I remember Kaye Don going to school out there at Pinehill. LB: [inaudible] that's right. BM: Kaye Don went to school out there. LB: About one year. BM: Yeah, and he--at that time, I think, my best memory, it was just--you lived just west of Cherry Creek (ph) on the south side of the road. In later years the house burned. Troy Livingston (ph)-- LB: Was living in there-- BM: Troy and Plessie (ph) was living in the house when it burned. I believe it's right, is that-- LB: That's right, that's right. MM: How many Pinehill school buildings do you remember? [Inaudible.] LB: Well I don't know whether there'd have been three, there were three, wasn't there? BM: Well we've got reports of three, we've got reports of four, so we don't know. MM: The one that [inaudible]-- BM: But when do you remember the ones that you remember, Leo? Where were they located at? LB: West--well the first one, of course, was there at the crossroads where--and the next one was (pause) Well, you see, the next one as I remember it was a higher elevation than the last one. BM: Yeah. LB: It was kind of up on the hill-- BM: It would've been a mile--the second one that you remember would've been a mile north and about a quarter of a mile west of where the first schoolhouse was built. Then the third one was built down in under the hill. LB: As I remember-- BM: Is that--that's the way you-- LB: As I remember it, yes, but if there were four buildings, why-- MM: The first one apparently-- LB: --that could've been crossed up some way there, see. BM: The first one-- MM: The one they think was the second one only lasted three years before it was burned, from 1909 to 1912. LB: Could it've been where the last one burned? And then-- MM: No, one was a quarter of a mile--a mile south of the last one and about--what, a quarter east? BM: The first one, from the first school house, where the first one was built, was a mile south and about a quarter east, kind of sitting on the hill up there on the prairie. Was the third where you remember the first one being built, is that right? That would be at the crossroads. LB: That's right. BM: That would be a mile south of the last schoolhouse. LB: That's right. BM: And about a quarter east. Or was it right in the corner? LB: Seems to me like it was right at the road, almost at the road there. BM: Well on this, that would be the one John Rossander was talking about, then. MM: John Rossander says he can show you the foundation, he must know. LB: I guess so. MM: 'Course he-- BM: So then they tell me that there was another one built up on top of the hill, which would be east of the one on the crossroads. LB: [Inaudible] it's possible, but I wouldn't remember that. BM: Was your dad--wasn't your dad elected to a term as sheriff? In Creek County? LB: Yes, he served two terms as sheriff. BM: He served two terms as sheriff of Creek County. Well then, he was--that was in what year, Leo? Do you remember? LB: No, I don't. I'm not sure, I'd have to look that up. BM: Well they did Mote-- LB: Mote ran for sheriff but he-- BM: After Abner was-- LB: After Abner served just two terms, yes. BM: That's what I--that's the way I remember it but I never had got that-- LB: That's right. BM: --I never had got that off any of the, anybody else but you. (pause) Is there any funnies that you can--that you remember that went on at the school during your school days there? Is there anything, any funny happened that you remember? LB: Well, I can't think of anything amusing right now. BM: To you memory, then, what, what all was the school used for, Leo? LB: It was--they had church there a lot, as I remember it, and then they had a literary society there in the community. I can remember those meetings were a lot. They'd have--they'd come in there of an evening and I guess they had a certain night of the week that they'd have the literary but I can't remember when. BM: We've got different reports on these literaries, but we never have really pinpointed it down to just what all went on at these literaries. LB: I can remember they had the dialogues and recitations and they'd have songs. They didn't have a musical instrument there, but I think sometimes someone would try to sing a song, I can remember that. But the main thing that I remember was the recitations and dialogues and I can't remember--I can't remember the church meetings so well. That--I'm sure that they did have church in the first building. BM: Also we have been told that it was used for a voting precinct in later years. It was used as a voting precinct. And in the early days they held court in that school. Do you know anything about that? LB: No. BM: We've been told something about a kangaroo court and I've tried to pinpoint that down. LB: Mm-hmm. No. BM: I forgot now who it was that--Virgil Vann, I believe it was, that was telling us about the kangaroo court, but I never could get him pinned down. Tried to find out if the kangaroo courts--that they put on during one of these literaries meetings or whether it was a real honest to goodness kangaroo court. But I've never been able to get it pinned down. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Okay. MM: As far as we know, and as far as we've been able to tell, Leo, you were the first white child born in that community. Leo Frank Bruce. And you was born (pause) what the date was--10/01/1897. October the-- LB: Ten the eighteenth. MM: --ninety-seven. Your father was Abner Louis Bruce and he was born 09/23/1871, died 01/18/1952. His brothers were Frank--James Franklin, J. Smith, and Moten R. and Roy Clyde and his sister was Cora Belle. Your mother was Ella May Stowe, she was born 06/27/1876 and died 05/09/1948. Your grandfather was Coleman Robert Bruce, he was born in 1847 and died in 1926. His broth--your uncles and aunts was--his brothers and sisters was Pleasant Alfred, James A. (ph), John H. (ph), Richard H., Moten (ph), Charles F. (ph), Wesley A., George Washington (ph), Adam Vivian, Alpha Ann, Laura E. (ph), Susie Jane, Dora Ree (ph) and Katie V. LB: There was a bunch of them. MM: And his wife was Alpha Ann Moore, she was born in 1848 and died in 1923. Your grandfather--your great-greatfather, then, was James Thomas Bruce, he was born August 1824 and married in March 1846, he married Francis S. Vivian pause in recording as tape switches to Side B MM: --Bruce was born December 1802 and died March 1885, he was married Elizabeth L. Swinney and I think that's enough of the tree to go back on there. I just found the tree on his father's side. His mother's tree is here also but I don't think we'll run anything on it. This was from Leo Bruce's family Bible. Leo, what do you remember--what did you think about Pinehill? What does it mean to you? LB: Well I was--I don't know how to describe it. I really liked the community out there, you know, and of course the mental [indecipherable] child, why, they usually appreciate or like the child more than they do after they get grown and have to get out and face the-- BM: Face the world. LB: --cold, cold world. MM: Well, you were never really apart from it. Your folks has always been there, you've been back and forth the whole dang--your life, haven't you? LB: Mmm-hmm. Yeah, I remember several times that we moved to town here, why, during my school vacation, why, I would go out there and when I'd go out there, why, I planned to stay all summer! And spend the summer vacation out there. But just a little while I, I'd get homesick, I'd want to see my folks and come back to Sapulpa and that, that'd be about the end of my vacation. BM: About the end of your vacation. MM: What'd you do on vacation out there? LB: Well, they--I pretended to help a little with the farming and I remember my grandfather Coleman Bruce, he and I fished a lot and I really enjoyed that. MM: Where'd you fish? LB: Fished in Polecat. MM: What'd you catch? LB: Well, we didn't catch anything but little old--little fish. Perch and catfish. Sunfish. MM: Did you ever hunt? LB: Not much. I've hunted some but I'm not much of a hunter. MM: Where was your swimming hole? LB: Well the main swimming hole there was--it was in Polecat there, and it was just this side of where, where we lived, you know, when Don went to school there at Pinehill. Just this side there, down--walk to what would be the south side of the road there, just a little ways from the road. MM: Did you get in on them watermelon stealing on them summer vacations? LB: No, I can't remember stealing any watermelons. But I can remember, I can remember the Polecat there, it wasn't anything like it was in later years. I can remember one place on further down--can you two remember where the falls was? BM: Yes. I do. LB: I think since Heyburn's been built, Heburn dam's been built there, I guess there's not any falls there anymore, it's filled up. But just above--just north of where the falls were there, I can remember at one time there was a big hole there and it was deep. And I can remember several times, people talking about it, that they were impressed with it--that you could take regular cane fishing pole, you know, and you couldn't-- BM: Couldn't touch bottom. LB: Couldn't touch bottom. BM: Now, was that the hole that they call the old Blokesie (ph) Hole? LB: I wouldn't know. I [inaudible]. MM: Was any hunting done, any--do you remember any hunting? LB: Well, not to speak of. I can remember my uncle Frank Bruce, I can remember that he hunted quite a bit and I can't be sure about that. I don't know--I noticed you said that in the [indecipherable] there, you read where they sold quails on the market, but I can't--I don't know if he ever sold quail on the market or not. But I can remember he had a bird dog that he was real proud of, and that poor old dog would--he hunted with him so much that he had, his feet would get sore. And I can remember he tried to--it wasn't a success, he couldn't do much good with it, but he would try to make shoes or moccasins for this poor old dog, for his feet. Course he wouldn't keep them, couldn't keep them on, you know, but that worried him a lot that-- BM: Thought the old dog's feet would get so sore. LB: Mmm-hmm. MM: Do you remember any of the early oil industry in there, or anything like that? LB: Well now, see, when I had the store out there they had a (pause) I think they called it a booster station, didn't they, the Texas Oil Company had a station right down below the hill there from where the store was. BM: Be out west. LB: And, yes, that's right. They worked several men, I don't--I can't remember how many men, but there were several men worked there. And I know they had a telegraph operator. Of course they had the old line that went right along with the pipeline there, you know. MM: What, did they send messages to local people if they needed it? LB: No, not much, they may have but I didn't hear of it. But they used it for the old business down there. But I can remember that the line walkers--they'd have a line walker that would walk this line and I think they had [inaudible] can remember more than one line walker that they had that'd stop in there at the store and-- MM: Do you remember any flooding caused at Polecat before the dam up in that area? LB: No, I don't think it flooded much but I can remember that--I can remember the creek would really get high and they had more rain than they have now. I can remember you could the creek roar. You could hear the roar of the waters. I remember one time, I don't know whether it would be of interest to you or not, it wasn't very important, but really made an impression on me when--you see, my grandfather, that was the house where I was born as I remember it. They referred to it as the Old Stockade House. The logs were built, or placed, up-and-down and not--how do I want to say it? Horizontal? BM: They were vertical but wasn't horizontal. LB: Mmm-hmm. And it was a story-and-a-half house, I guess. See, I know they had rooms or a room up above, they had a stairway I know. But I know that was the house where I was born, this Old Stockade House. Well I can remember one time my uncle Mote Bruce--we were going from that--as I remember it, now--we were, I was behind him on a horse, and we were trying to go from this Old Stockade House over to where my parents lived there at the foot of the hill where I told you about. I can remember the creek being up. And it was probably right there about where the bowl where the falls was, you can remember there was a crossing there. And I remember that he stopped there on the-- BM: Bank of the creek. LB: --other side of the bank of the creek and watched that water for, oh, several minutes. He didn't say anything, you know, just sit there, we sit there on the horse and just watching the water. And he finally said to me, he says, Now Leo, you hang on to me real tight, you hear? Of course that made an impression on me and I grabbed ahold of him and we slid down into the water there. And course the water came right up to our waist, you know, we were--and all you could see of the poor old horse was just his head and ears sticking up there right in front of us and I can remember the logs and stuff floating down the river, the creek there. And I can remember that horse was really pulling, but we swam the creek to get on the other side but I never knew what was so important that he had to get from my grandfather's house over there back to our house. He might've just been wanting to get rid of me! (laughs) He swam that creek to get-- BM: He swam the creek with the old horse to-- LB: To get back to where [indecipherable]. BM: To get back-- MM: I believe you told me one time about you and Charlie Blythe watching the first surrey with a fringe on top. Do you remember that? It was there at your grandpa's, and-- LB: Yes, I just barely, I can remember. Well, I can remember that was kind of a, kind of a meeting place for a lot of people over the country there at my grandparents' house. I think Charlie--seems like I can remember Charlie stopping in there more than once-- MM: What about surrey with a fringe on top? LB: --on Sundays, you know. But what I remember, one time, there was a surrey that crossed that little--there was a little--oh, we called it--it was probably Cherry Creek. It was Cherry Creek would've been right there. I can remember that surrey with a fringe on top coming and crossing that creek and coming up right up by our--my grandparents' house. MM: Was it pretty or what-- LB: But who they were--yeah, it was, I thought it was a really fancy carriage. But I can't remember who was driving it, who they were, or anything about it. BM: You can still drive down--or you could, you could still drive down to that old crossing there on Cherry Creek. You could here a few years back. I don't know whether you still can or not. Down by where the Old Stockade House was. There was a cross there, that was the roadway where the crossing was there on Cherry Creek, went right down to Polecat, on down to just above what they call the lower falls. LB: Those lower falls, I don't know if I was ever right at that location or not. But I can remember the people speaking of the lower falls and-- BM: Now, this next summer, when we present and dedicate this thing to the state of Oklahoma, we'd like--I want you to come out and if the Lord is willing, I'll try to take you back up Polecat as far as we can and show you where the old falls that you remember crossing on the horse, where it is located today and show you where the old lower falls were there on Polecat and try to show you where the old roadway used to go down through there. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: You can drive down quite a ways down in there by where the Old Stockade House used to be. What you would--at the present time you would have to cross from where you lived there where the house burned for Troy and Plessie (ph) lived, and it burned, you would have to come back east across Cherry Creek, to Cherry Creek. There's Little Cherry and Big Cherry Creek. Big Cherry Creek-- LB: Yeah, that's what I was wondering about-- BM: Big Cherry Creek was the one that you were talking about the old crossing was down by the Old Stockade House-- MM: I don't think you asked him where his property he owns out there is. BM: --come back to where, oh, it's about two hundred yards east of Little Cherry Creek, there's a road that goes south, goes back off down, winds back around, down almost to where the Old Stockade House used to be. And where the old crossing was down here. At the present time I think Louis or Andrew, one of them, has it fenced in and you can't drive all the way down to where the old crossing was. LB: I was--oh, several times I went over there when we lived out there, you know, in the house that burned, you know, when Troy and Plessie (ph) lived there. I went there several times, I went over to that location but it's changed so much, it's-- BM: It's really changed now. LB: --wouldn't, wouldn't know it was the same place. BM: It's changed, it's changed altogether now to what it was then, even. MM: Ask him where his property is [inaudible]. BM: The property that you still own out there at the present time, Leo, where is it located? LB: Well, it's right there at the corner of the road where the road, one road goes over to what is Shepherd Point and the other [inaudible] and seventy acres. BM: You own seventy acres there. LB: But I really don't own that place because--see, I just had forty acres and that road goes right through that forty so forty in here a few years ago, I bought the surface thirty acres from the allottee, I forget who she was, she lives down at Okmulgee. That joins there on the west there, thirty acres, so I really have what you and me would call for seventy acres but the road takes up a lot of it, I don't know how many acres [inaudible]. But part of that goes right where the, goes right up where--you remember where Loyd Bruce used to live there. I don't know, you folks--did you ever [inaudible]. Because that's--oh, Mastersons lived there a while, one of them. BM: Yeah, right there in the corner, say, Roy Bruce had the house right there in the corner with a cedar tree in the yard. LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm. BM: We didn't live there in that corner there. Dan, Dan Masterson (ph) lived there in the corner. And Louis lived south over there on--well, just north of the Old Stockade House. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Where the Old Stockade House was. LB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And we lived on south down there, well it'd just be right there on the banks of the creek. And we moved over in the field, back over west of there in a field by the old Blokesie (ph) hole, the old swimming hole. LB: Mmm-hmm. MM: [Inaudible.] BM: Then we moved back up-- end of recording. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0012-01_Leo_Bruce.xml OHP-0012-01_Leo_Bruce.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 2000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leo Frank Bruce Description An account of the resource In this 1976 interview, Leo Frank Bruce (1897-1990), the first white child born in the Pinehill Community outside of Bristow, Oklahoma, describes his life in the area prior to statehood including their early home structures and the approximate location of their homesteads. He also identifies some of the first schoolteachers and his schoolmates in the community. He discusses talks about running a small dry goods store prior to refrigeration/electricity, his family’s subsequent move to Sapulpa when his father was elected as the first Creek County clerk, and subsequently as the Creek County sheriff. Finally, he describes social events in the Pinehill community such as literaries, fishing, and the first time he ever saw a surrey with a fringe on top. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0012-01 Subject The topic of the resource Pinehill Community and School Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1976-11-12 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/b9b162ca35b379d0a3afc46cbba8606c.png 31a3089548c2c51aa26e93db1d6c1f73 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Harry Britt McCarty OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. genealogy family OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0013-01 Harry Britt McCarty OHP-0013-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. McCarty Family History genealogy family Harry Britt McCarty Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|26(1)|38(8)|59(8)|74(10)|96(12)|109(14)|125(5)|139(7)|170(5)|194(12)|216(2)|240(9)|260(13)|274(8)|283(6)|295(13)|303(13)|319(1)|339(14)|366(2)|380(10)|406(2)|421(6)|443(14)|456(11)|466(2)|489(12)|527(8)|551(7)|562(7)|586(2)|598(11)|606(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0013-01 McCarty, Harry.mp3 Other audio 0 Locations of McCarty Family Graves BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty’s living room. MM: Okay— BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn’t go to the cemetery. Discussion of the locations of McCarty family members graves. Bea ; Bryant Fassmore ; Colorado River ; diptheria ; Harry McCarty ; Lola ; Marble Falls ; Old Man Holloway ; Port Acana ; Sam Holland ; Wash Crosson cemeteries ; graves 285 Family Members and Genealogy MM: Ask him how many of—if he could tell all the names of papa’s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we’ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad’s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa’s Holland’s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don’t know. Discussion of the Family Genealogy of Harry McCarty Alex ; Bryant McCarty ; Charlie Edwards ; Ferrell Blythe ; Laura ; Port Lavaca ; Tom Holland ; Wiley Thompson family ; genealogy 728 Traveling to Houston for Bea's Funeral HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that’s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don’t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that’d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn’t anybody in ‘em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it’s twenty-six miles well there’s twenty-four cars, I don’t remember. And we’d went right down between ‘em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. Stories of the trip to Houston when Bea died fog light ; Paul Stephens ; travel funeral ; travel 1023 Move to Oklahoma MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in—I guess it was the early part of ’18. MM: What time, when did you come out? Discussion of moving to Oklahoma in 1918 Baker ; Bert Burnett ; Bristow ; Ed Barnfield ; Lawton ; Mina Phipps ; Wichita Falls Moving ; Oklahoma 1100 Family Names ZM: Your mother died in ’68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must’ve died about two years before, didn’t she? Discussion of family genealogy Audry Simmons ; Betty Lee ; Betty Simmons ; La Porte ; Marble Falls ; Vivian King family ; genealogy 1342 Old Family Pictures BM: I was gonna say, we’re gonna leave—try to get away about the last of September or the— ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]— BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That’s Bryant’s (ph) dad. Discussion recorded while looking through family pictures Bea ; Jack Higgins ; Keeg ; Lannow ; Lorreine ; Marble Falls ; Pictures genealogy ; pictures 1688 Butchering a Boar Hog BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him— MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to— Memories of butchering a hog butcher ; hog butcher ; hog 1821 Location of Family Graves ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I’d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn’t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she—her husband’s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they’d been there for a long time. I guess there’s nothing there. But anyhow she— Discussion of location of family graves Marble Falls ; Nina ; Toby gravesites In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives. BM: This is July 16, 1986 in Harry McCarty&#039 ; s living room. MM: Okay-- BM: Now, Harry, you said a while ago the two girls was buried where? HM: Lola (ph) was buried at Port Acana (ph) and Bea (ph) was buried down there close to Houston in a Catholic cemetery but we didn&#039 ; t go to the cemetery. BM: Do you know-- HM: I don&#039 ; t know the name of it-- BM: Don&#039 ; t even know the name of it? HM: No, I don&#039 ; t. BM: Who could--where could a person find out? HM: I don&#039 ; t know. I don&#039 ; t have any idea. MM: What year was she buried, do you know that? HM: I don&#039 ; t know that either. I don&#039 ; t know [indecipherable] remember. But Lola died when we lived down there at Port Acana (ph) with the diphtheria. And she was the--she was the third one that was ever put in that Port Ac--that cemetery out there. They might&#039 ; ve had another cemetery there around Port Acana (ph) but I didn&#039 ; t know it. And there was a Shell Road run right along down, going down from Evercorn (ph) down toward Port Acana (ph) and there was a gate went into that cemetery right along there and Old Man Holloway (ph) was buried there first, and Bryant Fassmore (ph) was buried there second and she was buried there third. And they took Old Man Holloway (ph) up and sent him back to--I don&#039 ; t know whether he was buried in that Fairland Cemetery (ph) or Toby (ph), over there. And after we left there I never went back to her grave. MM: Where did his grandpa [indecipherable]? Where was-- BM: Do you have any idea where your grandpa was buried? HM: Grandpa who? BM: Grandpa McCarty. HM: No, I don&#039 ; t. BM: Well, I--Grandma Holland, where was she buried at? HM: She&#039 ; s buried there at Toby (ph), I think. I&#039 ; m pretty sure she was. BM: Well there&#039 ; s somebody told me there was something--where I got this I don&#039 ; t know. They said there was also a McCarty Cemetery right around Toby (ph). HM: No, I never did know of any McCarty Cemetery. BM: That the Toby (ph) cemetery was their--this other one, it wasn&#039 ; t even close to--it was close to this Toby (ph) cemetery, alright, but it wasn&#039 ; t right in this Toby (ph) cemetery. HM: I don&#039 ; t think there&#039 ; s anything to that. That Toby (ph) cemetery sat right along like that, and there was a schoolhouse out here, and right off down in this pasture here just a little ways was where the old homeplace was, where dad was raised. BM: Yep. HM: The old Holland place. Grandma Holland--grandma married Sam Holland after dad&#039 ; s father was shot. MM: He lived right there at Toby when grandpa was shot? HM: I don&#039 ; t know where they lived then. I think dad was--I think he said he was eleven years old, I believe. BM: Yeah, six--seven makes five. I believe he said five. I believe I remember hearing him say five. I may be wrong there. MM: I heard him a Corey (ph) talk about it [inaudible]. BM: And I&#039 ; ve always wondered where that he was buried. HM: Well, I don&#039 ; t know that he could&#039 ; ve been buried around that Toby cemetery (ph) if they lived there, I&#039 ; m satisfied they lived around [inaudible]. BM: They had to live right in there-- HM: Somewhere. BM: --in there around Marble Falls or somewhere in that neighborhood, anyway. HM: He&#039 ; s buried there in one of them--well there was a Wash Crosson (ph) cemetery back up on the Colorado River that there was several--I don&#039 ; t know if there&#039 ; s any McCartys ever buried up there but there&#039 ; s several people buried up there. MM: Ask him how many of--if he could tell all the names of papa&#039 ; s half-brothers and -sisters and all them. All of them kids, we&#039 ; ve heard so many tales of the half-brothers and -sisters and stepbrothers and -sisters and all that, how many of them can you name? HM: [Inaudible] Them Hollands, Uncle Tom Holland was dad&#039 ; s half-brother. And when he was here I asked him about them other Hollands down there and he said that I thought they was all Grandpa&#039 ; s Holland&#039 ; s brothers. He said they was his brothers and half-brothers or something. And I don&#039 ; t know. MM: Someone told me, maybe it was Uncle Tom, of all of them, the step-brothers and --sisters and half-brothers and --sisters and all the [indecipherable] there was thirty-five kids in that generation. HM: Well, it could&#039 ; ve been. Had a lot of them Hollands that&#039 ; s scattered around over them hills there that had families that was old enough that I thought that they was Grandpa Holland&#039 ; s brothers. But Uncle Tom said that they was his brothers and half-brothers. MM: Well, now, Grandpa McCarty was married before he married papa&#039 ; s mother. He had kids before them. HM: Yeah. He had, he had Keeg (ph) and Epp (ph). MM: Where did Alvin (ph) come in? HM: And he had Miney (ph) and he had that that I was talking about a while ago, McCourse (ph). BM: Mac horses. HM: Ida, I think was her name. Wasn&#039 ; t there some of them down there at that reunion? BM: No, there wasn&#039 ; t none of this down there so I tried to-- MM: They&#039 ; ve mostly died, so, on that-- BM: --that is the reason I wanted to run this down myself and I can go from there with it. But we intend to take off either about the last of September or the first of October after it goes to cooling down, run this all down, and we&#039 ; re going to try to find a place where it&#039 ; ll be a little bit warmer for winter. HM: Well that, there name was McCourse (ph), and Ida (ph) was a sister to Miney (ph) and Epp (ph) and Keeg (ph) and they was my grandpa&#039 ; s first marriage, I guess. MM: And how many was--papa and Ari (ph) and how many of those kids was there? HM: Well there was just three. MM: Three? HM: Alex (ph) and dad and Ari (ph). MM: Where&#039 ; d Alex (ph) die? HM: I think there around Port Lavaca somewhere. BM: I believe I remember hearing something about this, but I wasn&#039 ; t sure on that. HM: They lived down there when dad and Laura and Ferrell (ph) Blythe out when the calvary went-- BM: Yeah, yeah, I remember hearing them talk going to Port Lavaca to see Keeg (ph) I believe what it was. HM: No, see Alex (ph). BM: Alex (ph)! Yeah, that&#039 ; s the way it was, Alex (ph). MM: Okay, now, did grandma McCarty have a family before her and grandpa married? HM: Yeah. MM: Who did she have? HM: Well, she had--she married (pause) I don&#039 ; t know whether she was married before she married to Thompson but she had Wiley Thompson (ph) and Charlie Edwards&#039 ; (ph) mother, Mary by Thompson, but I don&#039 ; t know what his name was. MM: Do you remember what year Bea (ph) died? BM: Well, I remember hearing about it. HM: He died when we lived out there in the oil field. BM: Yeah. When we lived out there on the hill. MM: About what year? BM: And, see, Bea (ph) and her old man and them two girls come back when you lived out there in the field. ZM: When we lived out there [inaudible]. BM: On the old-- MM: Sunrise. BM: Yeah, Sunrise. They come back-- ZM: First time we went up there, went out there, was in 1930 and &#039 ; 40, wasn&#039 ; t it? HM: Thirty-nine. ZM: Thirty-nine. Nineteen-and-thirty-nine and forty. Christmas, you know. And come back about New Year&#039 ; s. HM: Yeah, but she hadn&#039 ; t-- ZM: And then we made another trip, we made about three or four trips down to the Port. We went [inaudible]. HM: [Indecipherable] come down there to the house. MM: What was their last name? ZM: Simmons. MM: Simmons? S-I-M-M-O-N-S? ZM: S-I-M-M-O-N-S. We moved up there in [indecipherable] what year, 1940? Yeah. HM: No, we moved up there in &#039 ; 41. BM: Forty, &#039 ; 41, somewhere in there, that was when Amelia (ph) was--when Laura Ina (ph) had the first, first-- ZM: Amelia (ph). BM: Amelia (ph), wasn&#039 ; t it? Oh, that big [indecipherable] was rough to carry down them steps-- MM: Forty-four or &#039 ; 45, isn&#039 ; t that about where Bea (ph) died? BM: --that old hospital. ZM: I don&#039 ; t know, I don&#039 ; t have any idea. HM: Well, let&#039 ; s see. BM: I believe it was later than that. ZM: Yeah, I believe it was, too. BM: It was--I know you were still up here, but it was later than that. ZM: Well was we here when Bea (ph) died? Yeah, yeah, we lived in here when Bea (ph) died. We moved in here in &#039 ; 67. Might be-- HM: No, we didn&#039 ; t. BM: No, you hadn&#039 ; t moved to town whenever Bea (ph) died. [all talking] HM: We lived out there in the oilfield. BM: You lived out there on oilfield, out there in the oilfield, out there on thirty-three. (pause) But I-- HM: [Indecipherable] Flossie (ph) and Paula (ph) and you and me went to La Porte, that&#039 ; s where they lived, in La Porte, but she was in a funeral home there in Houston. And we went back there the next day, it was foggy and raining. We went down through there and they don&#039 ; t have water ditches there, they just have kind of bar (ph) ditches, flattened out. And the next morning we went back to that funeral home and if was twenty-four miles, they was twenty-six cars in that, that&#039 ; d missed that that night in that fog and there wasn&#039 ; t anybody in &#039 ; em, they was just bogged down out in there and if it was the other way around they was twenty-four miles and twenty-six cars and if it&#039 ; s twenty-six miles well there&#039 ; s twenty-four cars, I don&#039 ; t remember. And we&#039 ; d went right down between &#039 ; em that night and (laughs) [indecipherable] to the road. ZM: --he said, Well I wish they&#039 ; d get over there! Said, Right over here in my lane! I wish they&#039 ; d get a four-lane drive! And he was over in the third lane! And he said, I wish they&#039 ; d get over there! And Flossie (ph) said, well, Raymond! Said, Why don&#039 ; t you look where you&#039 ; re driving! Said, Maybe you&#039 ; re in the wrong--maybe you&#039 ; re driving wrong. I&#039 ; m not driving wrong! he said. They&#039 ; re just a&#039 ; crowd, trying to crowd me off! [Inaudible.] HM: Across that--we went through that Columbus and stopped ate supper and I saw a lot of driving then it wasn&#039 ; t quite dark, and I saw some of them cedar bricks afire. It looked like smoke just roll out ahead of you, and then it kind of clear up and then here it&#039 ; d come again. And we got on down there and eat supper in Columbus and went on down and had to cross that Colorado River between there and Houston twice, and boy I never did see--I drove fifty miles an hour that night watching, without a fog light, the car went around it had a fog light, and all I could see was two little lights just (laughs). And I drove fifty miles an hour trying to see where I could see them, and every once in a while you could tell you passed something on the shoulder. And went on down and had to stop and get gasoline and that old boy there running that station, he said, Where&#039 ; d you come from? I told him, and he said, Man I don&#039 ; t see how you made it though that, down through there crossing that river up there, that. He said, I been in there a few times when it was just like it is tonight, and he said, I don&#039 ; t know how you made it without a fog light. ZM: --letters that I had the other day, I could tell you about what-- HM: But we went on down there and we went to the funeral the next day but we didn&#039 ; t go on to the cemetery. But that night went in there to La Porte, I don&#039 ; t know what time it was, it was late. Saw a cab stand there and three or four men standing around it, we didn&#039 ; t know where we was going. And I said, I&#039 ; m gonna ask these guys here at this cab stand if they happen to know Paul Stephens (ph), and went out there and one of them said, Is that the man that lost his wife? And I said, Yeah, I guess it is. And he said, Well, I don&#039 ; t believe I could tell you to where you could find it, but he said, Just follow me and I&#039 ; ll take you down there. It was plum across town, and got down there, why, he turned around and he told us that&#039 ; s where it was. And I got out and went out there and I said, How much I owe you? He said, You don&#039 ; t owe me anything. I said, Well I don&#039 ; t want you to do it for nothing, I said, I want you, I&#039 ; m gonna give you something. He said, Well, it won&#039 ; t be anything, it&#039 ; d just be the cab fare for coming down here, and he didn&#039 ; t want to take that. Wasn&#039 ; t much, I don&#039 ; t know what it was, it wasn&#039 ; t much and I thought that was pretty nice of him. BM: Yeah, it was. MM: What year did your daddy come out to Oklahoma? HM: Well, he come here in--I guess it was the early part of &#039 ; 18. MM: What time, when did you come out? HM: I come later on. I come in the fall. September. And he had worked over there at Lawton, and we was over at Wichita Falls, Bert Burnett (ph), and I went back and lived with grandma Holland for a while. And he come on out here--he started to Wyoming, and that Mina Phipps (ph), his half-sister, was living down there below Bristow. He hadn&#039 ; t seen her in a long time and he was up there to see her. And they talked him into the notion of staying. He went to work for Ed Barnfield (ph) out there on the old Baker place and worked for him a while, then he went to work for Baker, then he rented the place. ZM: Your mother died in &#039 ; 68. HM: Yeah. ZM: And Bea (ph) must&#039 ; ve died about two years before, didn&#039 ; t she? BM: That&#039 ; s what I was thinking. I thought--it was just before I bought that place out there, or right about the same time I bought that place out there. HM: Well, I don&#039 ; t think Bea (ph) died after we moved in here. I know she didn&#039 ; t. ZM: No, I know she didn&#039 ; t either, because I-- HM: We moved in here in &#039 ; 57. ZM: --I couldn&#039 ; t hardly make up my mind whether I wanted to go or not and right at the last I did, and we went up by the mailbox and we found the letter from someone, I don&#039 ; t know who it was from, that Bea (ph) was real bad, and we went on down there-- HM: Went on to Marble Falls. ZM: And stayed all night, and you and Red (ph) got up the next morning and called Houston, went down and called Houston and-- HM: Called La Porte. ZM: She was just as bad as she could be, they said. And we decided we&#039 ; d go on down there but she was gone when we got there. MM: What was her kids names? ZM: Betty and Vivian and [inaudible]. MM: All girls. ZM: Uh-huh. MM: Do you know their names now? ZM: Well, Betty&#039 ; s is Simmons (ph), and-- HM: Betty&#039 ; s is what? ZM: Simmons (ph)? No, not Simmons (ph). Her maiden name was Simmons. I don&#039 ; t know, maybe it&#039 ; s in here. I forgot all of their names so maybe it&#039 ; s in here. Mack (ph) is--Mack (ph) Betty&#039 ; s husband&#039 ; s name [inaudible]. BM: Their daughter killed herself. MM: Wow. BM: Betty&#039 ; s and Mack (ph). ZM: I don&#039 ; t know. I&#039 ; ve got the others here, Vivian [inaudible]. BM: Well, her name is not what it was then. ZM: [Inaudible.] MM: What about [inaudible]. ZM: Betty Lee and Vivian King (ph) and Audrey Lola Simmons. That was before they was married. This is her picture. Betty, Vivian, and Audrey, this was &#039 ; 44. HM: Aubrey Simmons (ph) and Bea (ph) separated and she married Paul Stephens (ph), wasn&#039 ; t it? MM: Her name, then, when she died was Stephens (ph). HM: I never did see him but one time, that fall. ZM: Yeah, when she died it was Stephens. HM: I saw him, we went to Austin. ZM: There&#039 ; s Betty--uh, Bea, and that&#039 ; s her three girls and that&#039 ; s her. MM: Ain&#039 ; t nothing worse than picking up a tape you&#039 ; ve made [indecipherable] date and where we at and say, We were somewhere and sometime we made this tape. (laughs) We make-- ZM: [Inaudible.] These are just pictures. BM: I was gonna say, we&#039 ; re gonna leave--try to get away about the last of September or the-- ZM: This is the key to that [indecipherable]-- BM: The last of September or the first of October. HM: That&#039 ; s Bryant&#039 ; s (ph) dad. BM: Yeah. HM: And mother. BM: I think--I know, I think Valerie got one of these. Pretty sure she does have. Well I&#039 ; ve seen this one before. ZM: You have. HM: Well, you&#039 ; ve seen them too, I think. BM: Yeah, I&#039 ; ve seen--I remember Bea. HM: I mean, Uncle Keeg (ph) and-- BM: Yeah, yeah. HM: They come to Bryant&#039 ; s (ph) when we lived up there on the [indecipherable] up there. BM: Now, Keeg (ph) and them should be in there somewhere, buried in there somewhere around Marble Falls. HM: I think they, they lived up there around Lannow (ph). BM: Lannow (ph) and Marble Falls, in there some dang place. HM: I imagine, I&#039 ; d have to imagine they was buried around Lannow (ph). They lived up in there for, for quite a while. Well, the last two times we went to seem them they lived up in there. And I don&#039 ; t know--they could&#039 ; ve been brought back down there to Toby (ph), that&#039 ; s where he was raised. BM: Well, that-- ZM: This picture was taken when you and her were--Lorreine (ph) went, and I was sick and didn&#039 ; t get to go in to my favorite [indecipherable] and Lorreine (ph), and this picture was made in March 1955. It&#039 ; s you all at your momma&#039 ; s. That was before Bea (ph) died, I&#039 ; m sure it was. HM: I don&#039 ; t know. We left out there in &#039 ; 57, I know that. And I think Bea (ph) died--Herbert and Lorreine (ph) lived over there on that hill there from Jack Higgins&#039 ; (ph) because of Audrey (ph) and Neely (ph) lived over in Tulsa and they found out about Bea (ph) faster than we did, and they called Herbert to find out if any of us was a&#039 ; going, they wanted them girls to go. And we had already gone. But we didn&#039 ; t know she was dead. Well, she wasn&#039 ; t dead, I don&#039 ; t guess then, when we left. And Herbert and Lorreine (ph) left off of that hill there and went to New Mexico. Right over in New Mexico, and lived out there for a good while after that. MM: That&#039 ; s a good picture of [inaudible]. ZM: Yeah. [Inaudible.] (talking in background, inaudible) ZM: --Sixty-one, was it? HM: Yeah. BM: I was thinking it was &#039 ; 60, but it was &#039 ; 61. HM: It was &#039 ; 61. BM: &#039 ; 61. MM: Yeah, he died in May. Buddy died one May and he died the last day of April--I don&#039 ; t know if it was March or April the next year. BM: Yeah. April the next year. MM: I know that he come out there when Buddy-- ZM: This was taken was on Easter Sunday and we was out at Herbert&#039 ; s. And mother was there and she had, she told me several times after, after dad passed away, I wanted my picture taken with him, with dad, and I said why didn&#039 ; t you tell us? She said, Oh, I don&#039 ; t know, I didn&#039 ; t know whether Laura would like it or not. BM: Doesn&#039 ; t make a damn bit of difference anyways. (laughs) make a damn bit of difference! ZM: --near the same age, she said, and she sure just--she told me that I don&#039 ; t know how many times, I wanted my picture taken with Frank. MM: Well, we got a big picture of him on a horse just about a year before he died. We had one-- BM: Did you get one of them? MM: My sister took a snapshot HM? Hmm? BM: Of dad on that horse. HM: No. BM: Just, oh, probably-- MM: --took a snapshot and the boy went across it and-- BM: --oh, I think it was November. HM: Mmm-hmm. BM: I think it was November. MM: I know it was the summer Buddy was killed. BM: Well it was after Buddy was killed. He&#039 ; d had--it was cold. MM: Anyway, my sister had this, one of them little pictures just something, and Loyd (ph) blowed it up like that and [indecipherable] and hang on the wall. BM: It was cold, but--it was cold enough that it&#039 ; s the same day that-- MM: That&#039 ; s what you ought to do with them four generations, have it blowed up. BM: --That was the same day that I had him to come out there and we cut that old boar hog. I went in that morning after him-- MM: No that was the next spring. BM: --I went in after him to-- MM: [Inaudible.] BM: No. MM: I know it wasn&#039 ; t in the fall. BM: It was in the fall. I went in after him to see how he felt and I said, How you feel dad, and he said, Oh I don&#039 ; t feel very good. MM: I think &#039 ; cause that hog [indecipherable]. BM: Well, I got to cut that old boar hog, go to getting everybody so I can knock him down. He said, Son I&#039 ; ll go out with you but I just don&#039 ; t know whether I can do anything with him or not. Well, come on, you tell me what--you just stand back and tell me what to do and I&#039 ; ll do the rest. ZM: You&#039 ; s a cutting, huh? BM: Man, well, I can do that. I got out there and got that old boar hog all stretched out and come over in that pen. He said, Go and let me do that. I think my knife is pretty sharp, let me do that. (laughs) He felt of his knife a little bit, Well, now, I believe it needs to be whitted (ph) just a little bit. Okay. He whitted (ph) his knife up a little bit. I still had that old hog stretched out. Well he got one of &#039 ; em out and he just throwed it over the fence and said, Well somebody sure make some good dinner. MM: Have a hog [inaudible]. BM: Went back after the other, got the other one, went over to pick the first one up and the old dog had done run off with it. Damned old bitches, run off with my dinner now I&#039 ; ll just give you both of &#039 ; em. MM: [Inaudible.] ZM: Would you all drink something, coffee or something? BM: Oh, I&#039 ; d have a cup of coffee, sis. MM: You can turn that off if you want to. pause in recording HM: Marble Falls and buried her there at the Marble Falls but they wasn&#039 ; t buried together. And Nina (ph), the oldest girl, she--her husband&#039 ; s buried out there at Toby (ph) and she got it in her head she wanted her mother and dad to be put out there at Toby (ph) and she had them taken up, and they&#039 ; d been there for a long time. I guess there&#039 ; s nothing there. But anyhow she-- BM: She moved &#039 ; em out to Toby. HM: Out to Toby and buried them out there side by side and they was separated, and one of them was buried in one part of the cemetery there at Marble Falls and another in another part. She put &#039 ; em side by side up out there in Toby but there wasn&#039 ; t nothing to it, I don&#039 ; t guess, anything much left. They&#039 ; d been buried so long. Anyhow, but-- BM: There&#039 ; d be a few bones but that&#039 ; d be about it. Doubt whether there&#039 ; d be that or not. HM: I don&#039 ; t--she had a gold band ring and they left it on her when she was buried. And I don&#039 ; t know what part was left of her or anything about it, but Red told me that Nina (ph) said that they couldn&#039 ; t find that ring. She made that old boy keep a&#039 ; digging in there until he did find it. That, that looked like foolishness to me. But one thing she did do, my mother&#039 ; s father was named Britt (ph). And he was buried way off down in that Colorado River somewhere down there in a cemetery, I don&#039 ; t know what the name of it was. He didn&#039 ; t have any tombstone and she went off down there after John died and looked his grave, found where he was buried and she put a tombstone to his grave. And he&#039 ; d been dead for no telling how long. (talking in background) end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml OHP-0013-01_Harry_McCarty.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 5000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harry Britt McCarty Description An account of the resource In this 1986 interview, Harry Britt McCarty (1903-1987) discusses the locations of different McCarty family cemeteries in Texas and the names/genealogy and deaths of relatives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0013-01 Subject The topic of the resource McCarty Family History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1986-07-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/2cc1edc4a6bb8d1008fa08ef61b48f76.png 67a59e2c989a9adaca92e86d85a0c6ce Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Family Histories Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Oral accounts of various family histories Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Robert L. “Bob” McCarty Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Anderson Bigpond Elwood Bigpond OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Pinehill cemeteries OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP-0014-01 Anderson and Elwood Bigpond OHP-0014-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Family Histories Pinehill cemeteries Anderson Bigpond Elwood Bigpond Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|13(4)|51(6)|87(2)|108(9)|117(11)|141(9)|174(1)|199(13)|228(11)|269(3)|302(8)|319(11)|350(2)|377(14)|395(8)|434(16)|463(3)|480(1)|501(11)|531(11)|559(10)|585(7)|606(1)|619(9)|632(3)|660(1)|669(11)|702(5)|741(9)|750(1)|755(6)|781(9)|797(11)|808(1)|854(3)|868(8)|896(7)|906(2)|939(8)|955(10)|983(7)|1014(9)|1050(8)|1082(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0014-01 Bigpond, Elwood &amp ; Anderson.mp3 Other audio 0 Elwood Bigpond Family Plot BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we’ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let’s see— BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek—on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it’d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] Discussion of the location of the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot Anderson Bigpond ; Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Clinton Cemetery ; Dub Bolin ; Elwood Bigpond ; Elwood Bigpond Family Plot ; Elwood Family Plot ; family burial plot ; Little Deep Fork Creek ; Mills Chapel Schoolhouse cemeteries ; family 243 Kellyville Area Cemeteries AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that’s—that’s been sold, too. Discussion of cemeteries located near Kellyville, Oklahoma Amos Felix ; Indian Nations Council ; Kellyville ; Kenny Felix ; Little Bucktrot ; Pat Barnett ; Winnie Cahwey cemeteries ; Kellyville 414 Geneaology Society of Bristow BM: Well alright, I’ll probably—when we get this done, they’re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There’s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. Discussion of the how and why they began the project of locating the cemeteries. Bigpond Family Cemetery ; Cawhey Cemetery ; Depew ; Gene Connolly ; Geneaology Society of Bristow ; Ofuskee County ; Okmulgee County ; Seminole County cemetery ; Creek County ; Genealogy Society of Bristow 573 Barnett Family Cemetery AB: Now, Jack Tiger—what was, don’t they have a— EB: Jack Tiger’s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It’s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? Discussion of the location of the Barnett Family Cemetery Barnett Cemetery ; Barnett Family Cemetery ; Jack Tiger ; Jake Barnett ; Lodie Barnett ; Lodie Tiger ; Patsy Barnett ; Patti Tiger ; William Barnett Barnett Family Cemetery 818 Poor Farm Cemetery AB: Now I’ve got one here I’d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now— [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! Discussion of the Poor Farm Cemetery near Bristow Barney Harjo ; Bristow ; Bristow Cemetery ; Bristow City Cemetery ; Deep Rock Camp ; Oakcrest ; Oakcrest Memorial Park ; pauper's cemetery ; Poor Farm Cemetery ; Robert Biggs Poor Farm Cemetery 926 Magnolia Cemetery Lease BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I’ve been by there but I wouldn’t know. Discussion of Magnolia Cemetery and an old lease agreement Bristow ; Harjo ; Magnolia Cemetery ; Oakcrest Memorial ; Ron Schumaker ; Roy Dunaway lease ; Magnolia Cemetery 1150 Oak Hill and Bristow Cemetery BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we’ve got—I don’t know whether you knew it—know it or not, now that would be out there at this new—that’d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they’ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn’t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they’ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen -- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? Discussion of the Oak Hill and the original Bristow Cemetery Arthur Foster ; Bristow Cemetery ; Foster Cemetery ; Oak Hill ; Sand Creek Bristow Cemetery ; Oak Hill 1341 Pinehill Cemetery AB: What did, did, oh—Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she’s buried way south of the old, the original. The one—the original cemetery, it’s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? Discussion of Pinehill Cemetery Cemetery ; Pinehill ; Pinehill Schoolhouse ; Polecat ; Sally Pinehill Pinehill Cemetery 1426 Watashe Cemetery BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you’ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there’s another question that been a’rubbin’ me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there—it’s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there’s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind—according to this party that called me—there’s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There’s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe’s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. Discussion of the Watashe Cemetery Artie Mosquito ; Bluebell ; Joe Watashe ; Kelly ; Kellyville ; Watashe Cemetery Watashe Cemetery 1644 Harry Cemetery EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery’d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got—have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile— BM: Three miles? AB: Let’s see, let’s see—be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. Discussion of the Harry Cemetery Deep Fork Ridge ; Eddie Harry ; Harry Cemetery Harry Cemetery 1902 Haydeville and Knight Cemeteries BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don’t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. Brief discussion of the locations of the Haydenville and Knight cemeteries Haydenville ; Jim Bigpond ; Knight ; Tuskegee School Haydenville Cemetery ; Knight Cemetery 2094 Bear Cemetery AB: Now where’s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I’ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. Discussion of Bear Cemetery Bear Cemetery ; Juedeman ; Roley Bear ; Tuskegee Bear Cemetery 2213 Clarence and Teddy Brown BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence—Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we’ve got, we’ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We’ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we’ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That’d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three—(pause) and I don’t—we’ve got Brown there but that’s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey’s (ph) in there, there’s another one here. Brief discussion of Clarence and Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Gypsy ; Teddy Brown Clarence Brown ; Teddy Brown 2338 Madison Bucktrot and the Lane Cemetery BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it’s back over here right west of Iron Post. That’s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. Discussion of the Bucktrot family cemetery and the Lane Cemetery Cling ; Edna ; Madison Bucktrot ; The Lane Cemetery ; Tuskegee Madison Bucktrot 2489 McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery BM: Now, eighty-three, now let’s see, where’s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we’ll come back in here, that’s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? Discussion of the McNac Cemetery and Harlinsville Cemetery Amos McNac ; Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery ; Wally Knight Harlinsville Cemetery ; McNac Cemetery In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma. BM: (tape recording fumbling sounds) Now we&#039 ; ll start all over again. This is an interview with Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond on the family cemeteries that they know about as well as any other cemeteries that they might know about here in Creek County. Okay, Mr. Bigpond was telling about where your father was buried. That is over about two miles east and about a quarter to a half a mile north of the Mills Chapel schoolhouse. Is that right? EB: Ehh, let&#039 ; s see-- BM: Right there by Little Deep Fork Creek--on the south side of Little Deep Fork Creek but it&#039 ; d be on the east side of that road. [refers to map] EB: I don&#039 ; t believe that&#039 ; s two mile, I believe that&#039 ; s a mile (coughs) coming from Mills Chapel, you come to the corner there-- BM: Come down, so that&#039 ; s two miles over there. EB: Huh. BM: That&#039 ; d be--well that&#039 ; d be a mile, actually, a mile over there. EB: And where you turn in there to go-- BM: And the road goes north-- EB: --to Dub Bolin, that would&#039 ; ve been a mile. BM: --yep, right. A mile, okay, a mile. Okay, a mile. EB: About a mile and-- BM: That&#039 ; s right. You&#039 ; re right. EB: About a mile and-- BM: About a mile and a half it looks like. EB: About a mile and a half, yeah. BM: Okay. Then north up to just before you get to Little Deep Fork Creek, then on the east side of that road, is that right? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Now then, the Clinton Cemetery, that would be called the Clinton Cemetery. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. EB: As far as I know that&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s it&#039 ; s-- BM: As far as you know. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, then the Bigpond Family Cemetery then, would be five miles east, a mile south-- AB: About a mile and a quarter. EB: About a mile and a quarter. BM: About a mile and a quarter south-- EB: Yeah. BM: And east about a quarter of a mile. AB: Yes. BM: Is that right? AB: That&#039 ; s right, about a quarter of a mile. BM: Now we got that marked as Bigpond Family Cemetery.&quot ; (pause) Alright, is there any of the--we were talking earlier about these, these babies that&#039 ; s buried out here. Do you want to put them on here? Or do we want to let them go? I&#039 ; m going to leave that strictly up to you. EB: It&#039 ; s not a cemetery but I don&#039 ; t know if they could-- BM: It&#039 ; s a family burial plot, isn&#039 ; t it? AB: Yeah. EB: Yeah. BM: It would be a family burial plot. EB: Mmm. BM: So we&#039 ; re gonna mark this with a marker-- EB: That little baby here was, it died at birth. BM: Okay. What we&#039 ; ll do with this one, then, we&#039 ; ll mark this one over here E-L-W-O-O-D Family Plot. [marks map] That would be this one right out here. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, we&#039 ; ll call that one eighty-five and we&#039 ; ll mark that one right there eighty-five. [marks map] Well that&#039 ; s--we&#039 ; ll call that the Elwood Bigpond Family Plot. Okay, anything else that you can think of? EB: No, I believe I don&#039 ; t. AB: Now, how about the one north of you, where grandma lived, on the east there? Several graves in [indecipherable]? EB: Two babies there. Two babies there but that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s been sold, too. BM: Now, it don&#039 ; t make any difference about it being sold if there&#039 ; s two babies there. It&#039 ; s a family plot and as I say, what is got me stirred up on this thing and got me t&#039 ; d off--I&#039 ; ve run into one back over east of Kellyville over here, right there was a--it was a large graveyard and it was called the Bucktrot. Little Bucktrot. Over here east of Kellyville that the old boy&#039 ; d just taken a bulldozer-- EB: Huh. BM: --bulldozered all down, just pile the stones and everything up, went in and planted a garden on top of it. That burnt me up. AB: That&#039 ; s not in there where-- BM: Now the Indian Nations Council, they&#039 ; ve got a report of this as well as two attorneys here in Bristow and they say that they can be something done about that. EB: Yeah. (rooster crowing) BM: That a burial ground, regardless of where it is or what it is, is a sacred. If it&#039 ; s one or if it&#039 ; s 100, it&#039 ; s still sacred ground. (rooster crowing) EB: That must&#039 ; ve been Cunja (ph) Bucktrot&#039 ; s place north, kind of north of-- BM: Well it--go east out of Kellyville-- EB: East. BM: East out--straight east get out of Kellyville out there, back out there on the hill. About a mile, mile and a half, mile east of Kellyville out there and then back south down there. I heard this from fellow by the name of Felix. (rooster crowing) EB: Kenny (ph) Felix. BM: I believe his name was Osc-Amos. Amos. EB: Amos. BM: Amos Felix. AB: Yeah, we know him. BM: Amos was telling me about this and I ran it down, and shore enough that&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s happening. (rooster crowing) AB: This is not the cemetery that--what was their, Winnie Cahwey (ph) and--Winnie Cahwey (ph) and Pat Barnett, you know, they were always feuding over a cemetery up there that her grandfather Osa (ph) had plowed it up or something like that. EB: This was out in a few minutes ago. AB: Plowed it up and-- EB: Was trying to find the cemetery. BM: You know anything? UM: Not around this part [inaudible]. BM: Well alright, I&#039 ; ll probably--when we get this done, they&#039 ; re talking about they want me to take Okfuskee and also Okmulgee County and do the same thing with a bunch in there. UM: Yeah. There&#039 ; s also one in Seminole County. BM: Yeah? We have found eighty-five here in the Creek County area. UM: Well there&#039 ; s a bunch of them that-- BM: And it doesn&#039 ; t make any difference whether it&#039 ; s a white cemetery, colored cemetery, Indian cemetery, family burial plot, or what. UM: Mmm-hmm. AB: Do you work for the Creek Nation? Or just working for-- BM: This is just for myself. AB: Oh, I see. BM: This is for myself. So we&#039 ; re the Genealogy Society of Bristow. AB: Yeah. Well I thought that&#039 ; s what I read it in the paper and then-- BM: Genealogist Society in Bristow, they appointed me and the wife to run this all down and when we get this all run down it&#039 ; ll be put on a computer form. With the names of the cemetery and roughly how it&#039 ; s laid out, if it&#039 ; s taken care of, if it&#039 ; s got a fence around it, roughly how many graves is in it, the whole works. UM: Gonna take a while isn&#039 ; t it? (chuckles) BM: Well, you&#039 ; d be surprised, I&#039 ; ve already come up with eighty-five. UM: Yeah. BM: Here in Creek County. And I&#039 ; ve been just damned near to all of them. UM: Yeah. BM: All but just this--this one back off over here that I found out about this morning, where his [Elwood&#039 ; s] dad was buried. I didn&#039 ; t know anything about that one. UM: Yeah. BM: And I didn&#039 ; t know anything about the family Bigpond--Bigpond Family Cemetery. I didn&#039 ; t know anything about that. UM: Yeah. BM: I heard about it yesterday evening but I didn&#039 ; t--I didn&#039 ; t know anything about it. UM: Hmm. BM: Gene Connolly&#039 ; s (ph) wife was telling me about this here [indecipherable]. And, well, there&#039 ; s not but one thing for me to do. UM: [inaudible] BM: (chuckles) No, I just go run down the man that--go down and run down the man with the plan. EB: You know, this fellow, this Bigpond--there is a Bigpond Cemetery in Depew. BM: Yeah, that&#039 ; s off over here. [refers to map] EB: Yeah. BM: That&#039 ; s way off over here. And there&#039 ; s also a Cawhey (ph) over there. EB: Yeah. AB: Yeah. BM: There&#039 ; s Cawhey (ph) Cemetery over there as well as a Bigpond Cemetery over there. EB: I believe they&#039 ; re together in there. BM: Well, they&#039 ; re right there close together, just maybe [indecipherable] apart. They&#039 ; re all right there together. AB: Now, Jack Tiger--what was, don&#039 ; t they have a-- EB: Jack Tiger&#039 ; s buried south of Depew kind of off in the woods there somewhere. It&#039 ; s an old cemetery right in there. BM: South of Depew? EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, how far south? EB: Well, let&#039 ; s see. BM: I don&#039 ; t want you to go, getting&#039 ; you all upset now, why don&#039 ; t you just relax. (all chuckling) I want you to relax. AB: Now, I know, you could--now there&#039 ; s a girl, woman, lives over there. She&#039 ; s married to Jake Barnett. Now they live in Depew. BM: No, I heard about them Barnetts live out here north of town. AB: Well, that&#039 ; s some of the same family. BM: Yes. AB: But they live in Depew. Now that&#039 ; s--Jack Tiger was her dad, wasn&#039 ; t it? Jake&#039 ; s wife. EB: Patti? AB: Yeah. EB: Patti and-- AB: What&#039 ; s Jake&#039 ; s wife&#039 ; s name? EB: Patti and Jack Tiger. AB: Is it Lodie Tiger? BM: Otey? AB: Lodie. Lodie Tiger. BM: Lodie. AB: But it&#039 ; s Lodie Barnett now. She&#039 ; s married to Jake Barnett. And they live south of Depew, not maybe about a mile south of Depew. EB: That makes the cemetery on their place. AB: Yeah, well, now, see, this is Barnett Cemetery I was telling you-- UM: [aside] I&#039 ; ll be back here after while. EB: [aside] Okay. AB: --Barnett Cemetery I was telling you about last night. [refers to map] BM: Yeah. AB: See, this is Barnett Family Cemetery. Now, Patsy Ruth Barnett, she was married to William Barnett. Now, this Cawhey (ph) and Pat (ph) were always kind of at odds with one another. And when--Pat told me, said the feud has lasted for a number of years on account of her grandfather had plowed up Mrs. Cawhey&#039 ; s (ph) grandfather, or something like that there. But I was wondering when you&#039 ; s telling about this over there at Kellyville that someone went in and dozed. And I just wondered if that&#039 ; s the same place or not. BM: No, this one&#039 ; s over there south of Kellyville. This one over here, then, would be over here about a mile south, you said, about a mile south of Depew? AB: Well, you can locate-- BM: This one here. [refers to map] AB: You can locate-- BM: This one here. AB: Well, I&#039 ; ve been back in there now. I&#039 ; m not too for sure. But you could contact-- EB: Lodie. She&#039 ; ll tell you about that, sure. BM: Lodie? AB: Lodie. Jack Tiger, where Jack Tiger&#039 ; s buried in that cemetery. Now I don&#039 ; t know the name of it. But Lodie Tiger--Lodie Tiger Barnett, could--she lives there and she could probably tell you more about that. EB: Now, they tell me that a rancher bought that place and he--I don&#039 ; t know whether he plowed anything or not but he&#039 ; s pasturing it, pasturing it over there. BM: Why that&#039 ; s--of course, pasturing it, that&#039 ; s not gonna hurt it or anything. Go in there and go to throwing them damn claw down that deep, why, a lot of them graves that--Lord, they&#039 ; s supposed to be four to six feet deep but now, you know as well as I do that, that there&#039 ; s some places here in this part of the country there&#039 ; s no way that you&#039 ; re gonna dig four to six feet deep. AB: Yeah. BM: So there&#039 ; s gonna be a lot of &#039 ; em it wouldn&#039 ; t be over two feet deep. The equipment they&#039 ; ve got now a&#039 ; days, well it&#039 ; s nothing for &#039 ; em to plow six--plow two feet deep. Or scratch two feet deep. AB: Now I&#039 ; ve got one here I&#039 ; d like to ask you about. BM: Alright. AB: Since I, I usually save all these all the time. Okay. Now-- [papers rustling] BM: Robert Biggs! AB: Robert Biggs, now he was buried in Oakcrest Memorial Park, is that the same as the Bristow cemetery? BM: That would be the Bristow cemetery. AB: Well, you see why I was wondering about it [rooster caws] see I got one on Barney (ph) Harjo, now he&#039 ; s related to the Harjos live north of town so if it&#039 ; s Bristow City Cemetery [rooster caws] so I-- BM: Well, see, that&#039 ; d be that Oakcrest, that would be the same thing. (pause) Now I think that&#039 ; s right but now I wouldn&#039 ; t say definitely sure. AB: (chuckles) BM: Now the reason I&#039 ; m saying that is this: Now out here west of Bristow, stop and think a minute now, and you too, Anderson. Out here west of Bristow, now you know, they had the old Poor Farm cemetery, or pauper&#039 ; s cemetery, whichever one you want to call it, had them little crosses, sitting right there beside the road. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, now right just up on the hill there, on the south side of sixty-six, now there is a graveyard there. But I have not been able to get any name on it. AB: I think I know where you&#039 ; re talking about but I don&#039 ; t know too much about that. BM: I don&#039 ; t either! I can&#039 ; t run anybody down that&#039 ; s got a name on it. AB: You know out west of Bristow-- BM: Out there where that Deep Rock camp is out there west of Bristow? AB: Yeah. EB: What they used to call the Poor Farm? BM: Yeah, the Poor Farm. AB: Yeah. BM: Alright, the Poor Farm graveyard is right down there beside the highway. They&#039 ; ve got some little crosses in there on it. AB: Just right on that-- BM: Right on the north side of the highway. AB: North side. And all them little crosses there. BM: All them little crosses there. Now just up about 200, two- or three-hundred yards right west of that on the south side of the road, in them trees, there is another cemetery. EB: I&#039 ; ve been by there but I wouldn&#039 ; t know. BM: But I would say that this here [refers to map], I would say that&#039 ; s what this is right here. But I will check this out and make sure. AB: You think it&#039 ; s the Bristow cemetery? BM: Oakcrest Memorial. AB: Now I got loooots of this stuff so I don&#039 ; t have to be guessing, I can tell you for sure (chuckles) BM: I&#039 ; ll check this out and see where that Oakcrest is. And if it, if it is the old Bristow Cemetery, then it&#039 ; s out there by the armory. AB: Mmm-hmm, yeah. I--since I was leafing some, going through some of these, I just kind of, well I know we got the Magnolia Cemetery and stuff like that. BM: Oh, and 44, we&#039 ; ve got the 44 out there, we got the Magnolia. AB: Yeah. BM: Really and truly that could be Harjo out there instead of Magnolia. But Roy Dunaway, when he put that thing in, he just got a hundred-year lease on it, he couldn&#039 ; t buy the land, he got a hundred-year lease on it and placed that cemetery there and that man has got rich on those graves. AB: Yeah. BM: Just on leased land. Well when that hundred year&#039 ; s up, now, here&#039 ; s the sixty-four-dollar question: Will the Harjo family renew the hundred-year lease? Will the Harjo family? AB: But they never did buy that? They just got a hundred-year lease? BM: They just got a hundred-year lease on it! AB: Huh. That&#039 ; s interesting, ain&#039 ; t it? EB: What cemetery&#039 ; s that? BM: That&#039 ; s that Magnolia. That&#039 ; s that one north of town. AB: They, they never did buy that. They just leased it for a hundred years, which I never, I didn&#039 ; t know. BM: Now Roy Dunaway told me this himself before he died. And Roy and I was pretty close there at one time. And he told me when he first went to laying that thing out, goddamn Roy, you&#039 ; re, you&#039 ; re really sticking your neck out, ain&#039 ; t you buddy? And, oh, he said, I got a hundred-year lease on it for two dollars a year and I don&#039 ; t think I&#039 ; m sticking my neck out very far, I said, No, I don&#039 ; t believe you are, either. AB: But it&#039 ; s gonna complicate things in the future. BM: In the future it&#039 ; s gonna complicate things. AB: If you don&#039 ; t buy it--I mean if you try to buy it, say probably [indecipherable] (chuckles) and what&#039 ; s gonna happen to it (chuckles) BM: Well, Ron Schumaker, whenever they, you go out there and buy a plot, they give you a deed to that plot. AB: Yeah. BM: Well now that deed is worthless as the paper it was written on, by it being leased land. There is no way that he can give a clear deed to that plot of ground. But he can write one up. Everybody doesn&#039 ; t know this. AB: Now, this is south of town here, now. I thought that was the old Tiger cemetery, [inaudible] &#039 ; cause there&#039 ; s a lots of people buried there. Isn&#039 ; t Alma (ph) Tiger and Tom (ph) Tiger and all of them buried in there? BM: Now, Flo (ph) Weaver told me that was called the Harjo. AB: Well, they must&#039 ; ve--see, that was there before the Harjos existed. BM: That isn&#039 ; t very possible, is it? (chuckles) AB: But I guess the Harjos, since they do bury there, I guess they-- EB: Clearly it&#039 ; s kind of family-- AB: Yeah, it&#039 ; s kind of a family. BM: It&#039 ; s family. It&#039 ; s sort of a family. AB: --could be called family. BM: It&#039 ; s sort of a family get-together. AB: &#039 ; Cause you see, my mother--my mother&#039 ; s mother, she&#039 ; s buried there, too. BM: Wait a min-- Oak Hill. Okay now, we&#039 ; ve got--I don&#039 ; t know whether you knew it--know it or not, now that would be out there at this new--that&#039 ; d be out the new cemetery. Now there in Bristow they&#039 ; ve got another cemetery that was the original Bristow cemetery. I didn&#039 ; t know whether you knew that or not. AB: No. BM: Now they, they&#039 ; ve got another one, you go out east of Bristow on sixteen-- AB: Yeah. BM: And you start down the hill there to cross Sand Creek? AB: Yeah. BM: Just before you start, just before you drop over that hump to go down to Sand Creek, that&#039 ; s straight south back up there, was the original old Bristow Cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: And I&#039 ; ve called it the Foster Cemetery but I didn&#039 ; t know at the time that it was the old Bristow Cemetery, because the reason I did that was Arthur Foster&#039 ; s grandfather is buried there and he&#039 ; s the one who&#039 ; s got the big stone. He&#039 ; s got a big stone. AB: I didn&#039 ; t even know there was cemetery there. BM: It&#039 ; s--would be located right here [refers to map]. AB: That would be kind of north-- BM: Right here. Right here. Right there is where it&#039 ; s located. AB: Well it would be kind of located--well they got some apartment buildings there-- BM: Well, now, see, that&#039 ; s north of them apartment buildings. AB: North of them apartment buildings? BM: It&#039 ; s north of them apartment buildings. Now they tell me, I&#039 ; ve been in there, the wife&#039 ; s got two uncles that&#039 ; s buried there in that thing. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: That&#039 ; s what got us to really checking into it. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And then as times comes on, this was the original, the old Bristow Cemetery, before they moved out, out on the hill out there. EB: Is that what they called the sixty? BM: May be, I don&#039 ; t know. EB: Right north of--two miles east of Bristow and then back north. BM: No, this is just right, this is just--now is there one out there by sixty? EB: Well, I don&#039 ; t--I&#039 ; ve heard of people being buried out there. BM: Out there by model sixty then. EB: Yeah. You go two miles east and then north. BM: Two miles east and go north up there. EB: Right in there. BM: I didn&#039 ; t know anything about that one. [refers to map] Okay, we go two miles east, be here, go north two miles and now then that road, according to this map, it don&#039 ; t show that that road goes all the way to there. But it does, it goes to and comes back out at the bottom of the hill over there, that&#039 ; s the Joe (ph) Allen (ph) place. It just winds around comes on around comes back to the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. At the bottom of the old Joe (ph) Allen (ph) hill. AB: What did, did, oh--Pinehill. Did they have a cemetery? BM: Yep. Sure did. EB: Yeah, they cut one. BM: They built one a way up here. And Sally Pinehill, she&#039 ; s buried way south of the old, the original. The one--the original cemetery, it&#039 ; s right up on the bank of Polecat. Remember where Pinehill schoolhouse used to be? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, go east from Pinehill schoolhouse, you cross the creek, you go on down--the road is going straight there and the road comes right around the side of the creek. Just before you make that curve it&#039 ; s settin&#039 ; right back south--southeast over there on the east side of that creek. AB: I was pretty young, you know in those days, I don&#039 ; t remember-- BM: The the old Sally Pinehill, she didn&#039 ; t want--they didn&#039 ; t bury her down there in the old original, the old original cemetery. AB: Hmm. BM: They buried her back south of there about a quarter to a half a mile up on the side of the hill on her allotment up there. And you got the old Artie (ph) Skeeters (ph)--Artie Mosquito, do you remember him? Then you&#039 ; ve got the old Artie (ph) Mosquito cemetery back over there on Mosquito Creek. pause Okay, now then, there&#039 ; s another question that been a&#039 ; rubbin&#039 ; me: I was called late yesterday evening about a cemetery. You go to Kellyville, go west out of Kellyville, to the first road that goes north. And that road goes all the way through to 33 Highway up there, and you come out up there at Bluebell. When you turn north up there--it&#039 ; s just about a mile north, just before you cross the turnpike up there. On the west side of the road there&#039 ; s supposed to be a cemetery sitting in there behind--according to this party that called me--there&#039 ; s supposed to be a cemetery in there. There&#039 ; s five or six graves in it. Do you know any of this? EB: You get more information on that if you just talk to Joe Watashe right in there, he-- BM: Okay. Alright. Well now see, Watashe&#039 ; s got on up the road, on up the road, then, to the next mile section. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: North of there, then a mile and a half west is where the old Watashe Cemetery is. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: And the old Watashi stompground and so on and so forth in there. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay. Then. I don&#039 ; t know whether I&#039 ; ve got this one right or not: You come back over to that road going on up there, up about a half a mile north of that road, now. There is one sitting back west of the road over there (chickens squawking). They say there&#039 ; s probably twenty-five or thirty graves in it. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: But I didn&#039 ; t have a chance to go in and look this one over. It was wet and I didn&#039 ; t have a chance to go and look it over. But they tell me now that they call that one George. EB: George. BM: That&#039 ; s what I was told yesterday evening on this one. They call that one George. Do you know anything about that? EB: No, but I know a few Georges. But I don&#039 ; t know nothing about a cemetery. BM: Okay, let me backtrack here to sixty-five (pages flipping). I&#039 ; ve got two here--see we&#039 ; re sixty-five out here. (chickens squawking) Okay, sixty-six, same way. Alright, now then. Sixty--I&#039 ; ve got sixty-six (dog barking). Do you know anything about go down here to the, the road that goes across there at the airport? And go west, just before you get to the airport over there, on the north side of the road there. Do you know of anything right in there? AB: That would be going on past the Kelly farm in there? BM: Yeah, see, it&#039 ; d be--it&#039 ; s right on the Kelly farm in there and then this plot laid right in there between the airport and the Kelly farm. Now I do know there&#039 ; s a dwelling, an Indian dwelling down there, but to tell you--I didn&#039 ; t even know-- EB: The only one I know was buried in there in the cemetery&#039 ; d be Ed Harry. AB: Oh! You got--have you got the Harry Cemetery? BM: Alright, would that be it? AB: You go up here to the three mile-- BM: Three miles? AB: Let&#039 ; s see, let&#039 ; s see--be two miles out of town back off in this Deep Fork ridge. BM: Yeah. AB: And you go about a mile and three quarters-- BM: West. AB: West. BM: Okay. AB: And that--it&#039 ; s got a big sign there, it did have a big sign, the Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that&#039 ; s this damn thing I&#039 ; m trying to find, that would be this, this sixty-six. Harry. EB: Eddie Harry. AB: Oh, and then there&#039 ; s Watson--one of those Watson girls was married, do you remember the one they called Salina (ph) died and [indecipherable] BM: Okay, now, that would be-- EB: Did they bury her there? AB: Yeah. BM: That would be the Eddie Harry. That would be the cemetery that I&#039 ; m talking about. AB: Well, I think they just got Harry Cemetery. BM: Okay, that&#039 ; s what we&#039 ; ll put down here. We&#039 ; ll put Harry. AB: Yeah. BM: Harry Cemetery down there. AB: Now they--there&#039 ; s an old house sits kind of off in the woods by it, and now--right out there right alongside the road they did have a big sign that said Harry Cemetery. Big oh--big sign about like that yay. That just a little before, it&#039 ; s down-- BM: You come off that hill there and you drive, just before you get-- AB: Down at the bottom of that school there. What was school there? BM: That was down, right on--going into [indecipherable] it was sitting up on top of the hill there. AB: Yeah well it was down at the--you know where it&#039 ; s at, then, yeah. BM: I&#039 ; ve got that--I had it marked but I didn&#039 ; t have no name for it. Okay, sixty-five. Let me see where--let me run sixty-five down. I know there&#039 ; s another one in there. But I gotta find it. EB: It looks right here, sixty-two. BM: Yeah. (pause) Let me find sixty-five. [refers to map] I&#039 ; ve had to come back in after--had to come back in and as they went to coming in I&#039 ; ve had to come back in and remark everything. [murmuring] Sixty-five. (rooster crows) Scattered-the numbers are scattered everywhere. [murmuring] Sixty-eight. Sixty-four. Can&#039 ; t find it over here anywhere. Fifty-nine. (chicken squawking) No, I don&#039 ; t see it right now. Oh, yeah! Right here! That&#039 ; s the one over here just this side of Depew, now. You come around the curve coming out of Depew, come around that curve you straighten out in there right in there right south of that--well it&#039 ; d be southwest of that salvage yard out there. (rooster crows) On the south side of the road. There used to be a sign up there. But the sign is gone. It&#039 ; s out there, see you come in there where that road goes south to Gypsy-- AB: Mm-hmm. EB: That must be right in there by where old man Kilgore (ph) used to live. BM: Yeah? EB: South of there-- BM: It&#039 ; s out there south of the Kilgore (ph) place out there. Well, see, [indecipherable]--before the highway was finished in there, his son was killed out on that curve just east of the house, on that damned crooked-edge crooked curve in there. They tried to take that curve &#039 ; round-- [brief interference in tape] BM: --but you have any idea what that cemetery would be? EB: No, I don&#039 ; t. (rooster crows) BM: That would be this one right here. [refers to map] EB: Is it pretty close to the railroad? BM: Yeah, it would be north of the railroad. EB: No, way back there Jim Bigpond got killed on the railroad right there--well, he didn&#039 ; t die then, but he got his arm and leg cut off and he died later on, but I don&#039 ; t think he was buried there. BM: But there used to be a big sign up there that--that sign is gone now. EB: Yeah. BM: But it&#039 ; s out there between Bristow and Depew. EB: Yeah. BM: Okay, let&#039 ; s see. I&#039 ; ve got another one in here I think. Seventy-one. Where&#039 ; s seventy-one at? [referencing map] [mumbling to self] Sixty-five, seventy-one. Yeah, that&#039 ; s this one up here, we didn&#039 ; t know on the--still no name for that one, still no name for that one. Sixty-one was called George. Now this, this eighteen, we still haven&#039 ; t got a name for it yet. That&#039 ; s this one out here just the other side of [indecipherable]. AB: Seem like, wasn&#039 ; t there a sign up for that? BM: There used to be a sign up there. AB: Now, tell me something: where--I think there&#039 ; s a cemetery by the name of Haydenville or something like that, but it seems to me--I always see that come up [inaudible] BM: Haydenville&#039 ; s way down south-- AB: Yeah, I know where Haydenville is. But I--seems like there&#039 ; s something right down here. Haydenville--might not&#039 ; ve been. Hayden? Or [indecipherable] or something like that-- BM: I don&#039 ; t know what that name is right there, but-- AB: Yeah. Now, now they might have a cemetery in there, you know where the old Tuskegee School is? BM: Yeah, the old Tuskegee School, here it is right here. [refers to map] AB: You go out about a mile north-- BM: About a mile-- AB: Wait, no, about a half a mile north and then-- BM: Well then that&#039 ; s-- AB: Then about a quarter of a mile back east. Now there&#039 ; s a cemetery in there, too. BM: Okay. McKnight. AB: Knight. BM: Knight. AB: K-N-I-G-H-T. Now, I&#039 ; m not too fam--I&#039 ; ve been there, but I&#039 ; m not too familiar. BM: Okay, yeah, I know the people that&#039 ; s up there. AB: Now where&#039 ; s the Bear cemetery out there? BM: Bear? AB: Yeah. BM: Okay, I&#039 ; ll tell you in a minute. [refers to map] EB: I saw them over here. BM: You said over here, didn&#039 ; t you? Baker, Baker, Battle, Battle, Bucktrot, Tiger, Phillip, Harlinsville, Brown--well I had it here. EB: [inaudible] AB: The reason I was asking you, I got cemetery (rooster crows) Tuskegee there, that school in there--I was thinking was thinking that the Bear cemetery and it was the same place, but they said it&#039 ; s the same-- BM: No, it&#039 ; s not. That is the--where in the world&#039 ; s that at, I know it--I know Bear is on there. But I don&#039 ; t see it. EB: I seen it a while ago somewhere. BM: Wattie (ph) Sewell (ph), Lodie Tiger, Bucktrot, Gilcrease, Battle, Bucktrot, Baker, Drumright, Cawhey (ph), Washburn (ph), Brown, Bucktrot, Clinton--well here it is! Number three! The Bear! Be right here. [refers to map] AB: Now let&#039 ; s see, this is-- BM: That&#039 ; s west, come right straight north of Tuskegee-- AB: Yeah. BM: That would be out there, what is now known as the Juedeman place. Down there on the Juedeman place. AB: Yeah. BM: See, Roley Bear lived just before you get--Roley Bear&#039 ; s place was just before you get up to the Juedeman place. AB: My sister&#039 ; s buried there. BM: Yeah? AB: Well I-- BM: Then on north of that, then, is the Juedeman place, it&#039 ; s back off out--it&#039 ; s back off out to the right back off out there. AB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Anything else you can think of? AB: Now, Clarence--Clarence Brown, they have a cemetery there. BM: Okay, now we&#039 ; ve got, we&#039 ; ve got a Brown. Another Brown. We&#039 ; ve got a Brown here somewhere. [refers to map] Yeah, Teddy Brown. Old man Brown and we&#039 ; ve got a Teddy Brown. Now, this is where names are a gift to me: seventy-three and seventy-six. Seventy-three and seventy-six. That&#039 ; d be right in here. [refers to map] Seventy-three--(pause) and I don&#039 ; t--we&#039 ; ve got Brown there but that&#039 ; s not right. Brown or Long over there south, Cawhey&#039 ; s (ph) in there, there&#039 ; s another one here. AB: [inaudible] BM: The old man Brown is down seventy-six. AB: That would be-- BM: That would be down file miles south-- AB: Out east, east of Gypsy? BM: Yeah. I gotta find it. Seventy-nine, I marked everything last night. Seventy-five, seventy-four and seventy-five. Alright, seventy-four is Teddy Brown. AB: Ted Brown. BM: Ted Brown. Seventy-five is Washburn (ph). AB: Washburn (ph). That would be-- BM: [indecipherable] five miles, go straight east here [refers to map]-- AB: Yep. Two mile--three miles-- BM: One mile, then go straight south. AB: Yeah, I know where it&#039 ; s at. BM: Okay, Ted Brown is in there too. AB: Is that where Teddy Brown lies? BM: Yeah, yeah. Teddy Brown&#039 ; s in there too. AB: Hmm. (chuckles) BM: Okay, then, seventy-seven, it&#039 ; s back over here right west of Iron Post. That&#039 ; s the old Mason Bucktrot. AB: Madison Bucktrot. BM: Madison Bucktrot. And is that right? EB: They got, they got their own cemetery. BM: Okay, that&#039 ; s what we got it marked Madison Bucktrot. Okay. Seventy-eight--(pause). It&#039 ; s right in here because it was marked last night. Yesterday evening. Seventy-nine, we just marked that seventy-nine, the Clinton, in here. Seventy-eight. Well anyway, seventy-eight--we got the Lucy Deer (ph). The Lucy Deer (ph). AB: Is that the same one they call Woosy Deer (ph)? BM: Woosy (ph), that&#039 ; s it. EB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). AB: Woosy Deer (ph). BM: Woosy Deer (ph). Right it here it is, way up here. EB: Oh, it&#039 ; s around Sapulpa then. BM: Seventy-eight. That&#039 ; s up there by the turnpike gate out of Sapulpa. Seventy-nine is Lundsford (ph). That&#039 ; s right in here. AB: Back in here. BM: No, that would be--that would be--I think we&#039 ; re wrong on that. We&#039 ; ve got the Lundsford (ph), no that&#039 ; s seventy-nine at Clinton. Seventy-nine at Clinton. Eighty is Lundsford. Okay, that would be just right down the road down here. AB: Right down here. BM: Okay. Eighty-one is Lane. The Lane cemetery. Eighty-three is the Clinton. AB: Now is that-- BM: Eight-one, that&#039 ; s the Lane. That&#039 ; s a way the heck off over here. That&#039 ; s way off over here in the southwest, southeast corner of, or that&#039 ; d be the southwest corner, back off down there. AB: Is it like them to have two cemeteries? BM: I don&#039 ; t know. AB: What--wasn&#039 ; t Charlie&#039 ; s mother--she was buried down here at-- EB: Probably Tuskegee. AB: They call that Tuskegee not [indecipherable] now. EB: And [indecipherable] down there around Edna. A big cemetery, now. BM: Now, eighty-three, now let&#039 ; s see, where&#039 ; s eighty-three at. [refers to map] Now eighty-three, now we&#039 ; ll come back in here, that&#039 ; s the Clinton cemetery, out east of town out here. Eighty-four, then, is the family cemetery. Eighty-five, then, is yours. EB: Mmm-hmm. BM: Eighty-six is Knight. EB: Wally (ph) Knight? AB: Yeah, Wally (ph) Knight. Now you&#039 ; ve got the McNac (ph) cemetery? BM: McNac? AB: McNac. M-C-N-A-C. BM: M-C-N-A-C. AB: Yeah. BM: No, I haven&#039 ; t. AB: See, they got a cemetery right there at where they lived. BM: Now, where&#039 ; s that at? AB: Well, (sighs) well you go out to forty-eight out here-- BM: What, forty-eight, north on forty-eight? AB: Yeah, north on forty-eight but I can&#039 ; t--it&#039 ; s quite a-ways out there, eight or nine miles out there I guess, and then you turn to go back east. But it&#039 ; s like-- BM: East or west? AB: West. BM: Okay, then that&#039 ; d be out there what they call the old Mac (ph) Baker corner. AB: Uh-huh, I don&#039 ; t know about that. BM: See, that&#039 ; d be about eight mile north up there. Like you&#039 ; re going on to the sub station. AB: Yeah. BM: And see, before you get to there you&#039 ; ve got the Harlinsville Cemetery and there&#039 ; s no other road-- AB: Yeah, that Harlinsville Cemetery, that&#039 ; s the one I was trying to-- BM: Harlinsville. AB: Yeah! Harlinsville. That&#039 ; s it. BM: That&#039 ; s it right there. [refers to map] AB: Yeah, that&#039 ; s the one I was--but anyway, just like I told you, that if you contact that Amos McNac, he can give you the exact directions. Now he lives out right, he lives out to where Bethel lives. He&#039 ; s lived--where Bethel lives, he lives right across the road from Bethel there. BM: Oh, okay. AB: Or he&#039 ; s listed in the telephone directory. He can probably give you the exact mileage out there and some information on it, but all I know is it&#039 ; s a cemetery there. BM: Okay. AB: A family cemetery. BM: Alright. Anything else you might think of? (pause) AB: That&#039 ; s the only ones I can think of. BM: Okay. We&#039 ; ll stop this thing. end of recording audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml OHP-0014-01_Anderson_Bigpond.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 1500 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Anderson and Elwood Bigpond Description An account of the resource In this 1977 interview, Anderson Bigpond and Elwood Bigpond work with the interviewer to pinpoint the names and specific locations of various family burial plots and Indian cemeteries in Creek County, Oklahoma. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0014-01 Subject The topic of the resource Family Histories Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/4279dd45efad6fbd000910220cc02e4e.png b669f8a215825081e63f7d2adbec8875 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0016-01_Lecture.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Bristow Architecture OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0016-01 Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow OHP-0016-01 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Lectures Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow Bristow architecture MP3 1:|20(1)|30(9)|42(6)|52(8)|63(1)|74(3)|85(7)|97(11)|108(5)|120(13)|133(9)|147(2)|158(13)|171(10)|182(8)|191(10)|204(7)|215(8)|230(1)|241(13)|253(11)|267(14)|278(10)|291(7)|305(6)|319(2)|331(2)|344(10)|358(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0016-01 Townscape Lecture.mp3 Other audio 0 Patterns in Buildings UW: --Slide four is also an example of the assets of Main Street. This is decorative brickwork along the tops of the buildings. Sometimes you find this special decorative brickwork around the windows, as in the Stone building in Bristow. Or you can find the special asset that’s hidden, such as the brass pavers which denote the crosswalk in Bristow. When we stop to look at Main Street, we discover that the changes taking place over time have begun to obscure these special assets. It becomes more and more difficult to distinguish those special details that make the community—Main Street particularly—an interesting place to be. Patterns in building and architecture in Bristow Anthony's ; architecture ; Bristow ; patterns ; Stone Building architecture ; Patterns 163 Alignment Alignment is another term that we use in a townscape program, and this particular example—number twenty—shows the alignment of the rooftops of these three buildings, the alignment of the windows on the second and third floors, and the alignment of the storefront. It’s a very strong, horizontal element on this street which gives you a feeling of visual continuity. Slide twenty-one is an example of Granbury, Texas, and how they maintain the alignment in the second floors of the buildings, even though one of the buildings has been altered to accommodate a drive-in bank. Another technique for maintaining that horizontal band on the street, if a building has been demolished, is something like the addition of the brick columns that we see here in Tulsa that finish off a vacant lot. Alignment is explained in reference to buildings in Bristow alignment ; architecture ; Bristow ; Stone Building ; townscape architecture ; Bristow ; buildings 401 Facades and Windows Another change that we’ve seen happening on main street is closing down of facades, because possibly the use has changed in that building and there’s more privacy required for one reason or another. An alternative to this is the Fig Tree Restaurant idea which—when they needed more privacy for the diners, rather than boarding up the large display windows in the first floor of the building, they simply added a coat of black paint to the glass and added their logo so that they had the privacy for the new use of the space, but on the street you’ve maintained the original shapes and patterns of the windows. Discussion of facades and windows in buildings in Bristow Ada ; Allen's Alley ; architecture ; Bristow ; Calthy's Half-Size Shop ; Elk City ; facades ; Fig Tree Restaurant ; Jeans Crossing ; June's Fashions ; storefront ; The Coreys ; the Gift House architecture ; Bristow ; facades ; windows 646 Painting Buildings This opportunity exists on many Oklahoma Main Streets. This particular case in Bristow really only needs some basic maintenance and you could have the original design intact. Now in many cases, changes are necessary on the street, and a townscape program does not mean we really oppose change just for the sake of opposing change. Discussion of painting buildings in Bristow Ada Men's Store ; architecture ; B&amp ; B Rexall Drugs ; brick arches ; Bristow ; buildings ; Jackson Office Equipment ; Leventhal Furs ; Main Street ; paint ; townscape program architecture ; Bristow ; buildings ; main street ; paint 813 Mini-malls and Joining Buildings The mini-mall is a kind of marketing concept that we’re beginning to see on more main streets as larger buildings are not really viable for one establishment. This particular example is in Elk City, and let’s just juxtapose it with the next example, and that way of advertising the retail establishments in that mini-mall. You can see how much stronger it is when you’re using the whole façade of the building to advertise what’s going on inside, and not trying to attract people just by the use of a less-than-interesting white plastic sign. Discussion of the mini-mall and joining buildings approach of marketing architecture ; Bristow ; JC Penney ; marketing ; minimall ; Otasco ; Todd Furniture Store architecture ; Bristow ; marketing ; mini-mall 958 Signs and Awnings The next section we want to discuss will be signs and the fact that signs come in many different forms in the community [and] are obviously a very strong visual element. In this case, the furniture store and also kitchen stuff in Ada, you see the painted-on sign and you also see the flush-mounted sign. In many cases there’s a place right within the architecture of a building to put the sign, and that area was called the sign band. Here’s an example of the H&amp ; H Tire Center in Elk City that has used that existing place within the architecture to put the sign. You can see what that does to the total façade of the building—you use the whole building as a way to advertise the store, not just the sign, not just the display windows. A much stronger kind of marketing approach. Signs and Awnings being used for marketing architecture ; awnings ; Bristow ; H&amp ; H Tire Center ; Main Street ; marketing ; sign band ; signs architecture ; awnings ; Bristow ; Main Street ; marketing ; signs 1169 Pedestrians and Street Furniture Townscape programs are also concerned about pedestrians and the areas within the street that are intended for pedestrian use and for automobile use. And in this example you can see that there’s normally very little definition between those zones. There’s no way of defining that edge. Now here’s one way that could improve that—the use of some simple shrubs to define where the pedestrian area is, where the parking lot is, where the area is for the automobiles. Discussion of pedestrians and street furniture on main street brick paving ; pedestrians ; sidewalk ; street furniture ; townscape program pedestrians ; sidewalks 1333 Public Information and Parking Public information is something that every community is concerned about, and this is typically the way it is presented on a tall aluminum pole, which becomes rusted and is easily bent. A very simple alternative to that would be the use of a low wooden stake that actually puts that information at driver’s-eye level and doesn’t have the spindly quality, I guess you could say, of the aluminum poles. Ways to display public information and a discussion on parking Bristow ; Main Street ; Parking ; Public information parking ; public information 1447 Alleyways and Water Towers Alleyways are another thing to consider in a townscape program because while you have existing assets in a town, as we talked about in the beginning of the show, there’s also hidden opportunities and simple treatments, as in this case the addition of some trees to the alleyway, can make a huge difference in the impression that people have of the community. Alleyways and water towers are discussed in this section alley ; alleyways ; townscape program ; water tower alleyways ; water tower 1502 Other Townscape Projects Any size community can participate in a townscape program, and this particular example is Normandy, Tennessee. You can see the interesting hand-carved sign they’ve selected to announce their community and give it a special identity. You can also see here that they’ve applied some of these principles we’ve been talking about. Brief overview of other townscape projects Chelsea, Massachusetts ; Normandy, Tennessee ; Townscape project Townscape Project 1699 Closing Comments Basically, this gives you an overview of the issues we’re concerned about in a townscape program, and once again the thing to consider is What are the assets on your main street and your town. Drop back and look for those and then look at the things that maybe you’re not so proud of and begin to consider what kinds of changes could be made that will highlight the assets that exist within your community, strengthen those architectural features in the buildings, and not disrupt those original patterns that existed and that gave main street its special identity and gave the buildings their special unity. Closing comments of the lecture architecture ; Bristow ; buildings ; Main Street ; townscape project architecture ; Bristow ; Main Street ; townscape project This is an undated recording of an unknown woman presenting a professional lecture on maintaining the historical storefronts and township of Bristow. [Transcriber&#039 ; s note: This is a lecture by an unknown woman made in conjunction with a slideshow. The click of the slide projector is audible throughout the lecture ; however, as of the date of the transcription and without additional information, we unfortunately cannot collate her comments to images. If you have any information about this lecture, please contact the Bristow Historical Society.] UW: --Slide four is also an example of the assets of Main Street. This is decorative brickwork along the tops of the buildings. Sometimes you find this special decorative brickwork around the windows, as in the Stone building in Bristow. Or you can find the special asset that&#039 ; s hidden, such as the brass pavers which denote the crosswalk in Bristow. When we stop to look at Main Street, we discover that the changes taking place over time have begun to obscure these special assets. It becomes more and more difficult to distinguish those special details that make the community--Main Street particularly--an interesting place to be. When we talk about a townscape program, there are certain terms that we use, and one of those is &quot ; patterns.&quot ; And you discover patterns at many different levels within the street. One of the places is within the building materials, as in the example of this two-colored brickwork from Elk City. Patterns also occur at different scales, as in this example from Bristow where you can see the patterns of the buildings&#039 ; shapes and also the patterns of the decorative elements within the building facades themselves. Historically, our Main Streets had very strong patterns. This historic photo of Ada shows examples of the patterns of the rooftops, the patterns of the windows, and the patterns of the storefronts, all of which reinforce each other as your eye travels down the street. This is an example of those same kinds of patterns being reinforced on a contemporary main street. This particular example, slide number sixteen, is from Galveston. Now as we look at a contemporary main street--and in this example, slide seventeen, we&#039 ; re looking at Bristow&#039 ; s model block--we discover that changes on the street as in this addition of the aluminum to the Anthony&#039 ; s store, begin to disrupt those historic patterns on the street. Slide eighteen is an example of the new pattern that you can add to the street when you add street trees, as they have in Elk City. It&#039 ; s another way of reinforcing the appearance of the street and adding a special level--layer of interest. Alignment is another term that we use in a townscape program, and this particular example--number twenty--shows the alignment of the rooftops of these three buildings, the alignment of the windows on the second and third floors, and the alignment of the storefront. It&#039 ; s a very strong, horizontal element on this street which gives you a feeling of visual continuity. Slide twenty-one is an example of Granbury, Texas, and how they maintain the alignment in the second floors of the buildings, even though one of the buildings has been altered to accommodate a drive-in bank. Another technique for maintaining that horizontal band on the street, if a building has been demolished, is something like the addition of the brick columns that we see here in Tulsa that finish off a vacant lot. Let&#039 ; s take a look at the classic Victorian storefront--it had three main parts, or it has three main parts: the band of glass above the display windows, which are called transom windows or the clerestory ; the display window itself ; and the band beneath the display window, which is the kick plate. Slide twenty-four is an example of a storefront which is almost completely intact on an Oklahoma main street. The glass above the display windows in the Stone building in Bristow is actually the original leaded glass that was put in when the building was constructed. Unfortunately, we don&#039 ; t have the original storefronts intact in many--in most examples on our main streets, and slide twenty-five shows one of the first changes that have happened on the street, and that&#039 ; s the closing-down of the clerestory or transom window area. Now that&#039 ; s occurred for many different reasons. Generally, because of recessing ceilings and putting in heating and cooling ducts, people did not want that exposed to the outside, so they had to come up with an alternative for blocking in that area. Now what&#039 ; s happened when they&#039 ; ve done that, is they&#039 ; ve begun to destroy the original pattern of the building front as in those two examples. Now, alternatives to how to handle that clerestory area quite obviously--one would be to maintain the original glass, and that&#039 ; s the ideal because you do recapture or maintain the original integrity--design integrity. Possibly a more practical alternative in many of our main street cases in Oklahoma is the idea of using colored panels of just simple plywood that fit within that clerestory area and maintaining the same shape of the original windows so that you keep the pattern of the building façade intact. Typically, the example in slide twenty-nine is in Bristow and what&#039 ; s happened is the simple closing-down of that clerestory area by using some fiberglass panels. That&#039 ; s totally separated that interesting terra cotta detail work on the top of the building from the pedestrian and the store entrances at the first floor of the building--something that you really don&#039 ; t want to have happen because you&#039 ; re losing a marketing opportunity. An alternative use for that area would be the--using the clerestory area as a place to put the sign advertising the retail establishment within the building as in these two examples in Fort Collins, Colorado. Another change that we&#039 ; ve seen happening on main street is closing down of facades, because possibly the use has changed in that building and there&#039 ; s more privacy required for one reason or another. An alternative to this is the Fig Tree Restaurant idea which--when they needed more privacy for the diners, rather than boarding up the large display windows in the first floor of the building, they simply added a coat of black paint to the glass and added their logo so that they had the privacy for the new use of the space, but on the street you&#039 ; ve maintained the original shapes and patterns of the windows. Second stories and what to do with space that&#039 ; s no longer commercially viable are a real problem on Oklahoma main streets. The Coreys (ph) example is in Elk City. An alternative to that simple boarding-up of the windows would be this example of Allen&#039 ; s Alley (ph), which uses the second-story windows as a place for actually painting a sign right on the window. They&#039 ; ve also closed off those windows by the use of drapery and some venetian blinds. Typically, though, the Cathy&#039 ; s Half-Size Shop and the Gift House in Ada represent what happens on the street. Rather than trying to select a way of closing down those second-story windows that keeps the design of the building front intact, you have this sort of blanket boarding-up of the second story space. The complete cover-up is another kind of change that we&#039 ; ve seen on many main streets, and that&#039 ; s happened because people wanted something new and something that really looked very up-to-date. What happens when you choose that approach, though, is that the mass of aluminum really effectively erases the architectural detail of the building that it&#039 ; s covering. And very rapidly, as in the June&#039 ; s Fashions photo slide--(chuckles) June&#039 ; s Fashions slide--it becomes Main Street Any Place. This example&#039 ; s in Elk City, and there&#039 ; s nothing really particularly outstanding. All the buildings look the same. This is an example in slide thirty-nine of a building in Fort Collins, Colorado which was completely covered up as in this photo at the beginning of the townscape problem. You had no more idea what the carriage of that building was like than anything. During a townscape program, this next slide shows you what was discovered beneath all of that aluminum. You can see the arch windows, the two-color brickwork, and the very simple but interesting Victorian storefront that was all lurking beneath that aluminum. So you can reclaim what&#039 ; s behind the aluminum. It&#039 ; s a matter of doing a little bit of historic research with some photos to find out what to expect once you get the aluminum off. The Jeans Crossing is an example of using the total storefront to advertise the retail establishment, not just the sign, not just the display windows on the first floor, but capture the identity, the architectural interest of the whole building and have that identify the retail establishment. This next slide is also an example of the same concept. In this case, they&#039 ; ve gone to the point of actually reflecting some of the architectural details in the diamond pattern between the second and third floor windows in the gold design on the display windows. And this kind of opportunity exists in lots of main streets. (break in recording) This opportunity exists on many Oklahoma Main Streets. This particular case in Bristow really only needs some basic maintenance and you could have the original design intact. Now in many cases, changes are necessary on the street, and a townscape program does not mean we really oppose change just for the sake of opposing change. What we do try and have people think about is that when change needs to happen within a building, that it be done sensitively and in keeping with the original design of the building, as in this example where they have altered the storefront but maintained the original brick arches that are part of the building so that you have some compatibility with the renovated first-floor with the rest of the building. The Leventhal Furs is a good example of a building which has had the first floor entirely renovated, but they&#039 ; ve done it in such a way that it&#039 ; s compatible with the colors and the building materials of the second and third floors, so that they did go ahead and make the change but they&#039 ; ve maintained the continuing and the unity of the total façade. Color is quite a big issue in a main street program because it&#039 ; s obviously--it&#039 ; s one of--it&#039 ; s obviously a huge visual element. Unfortunately, when we&#039 ; ve had our brick buildings painted, as in the Ada Men&#039 ; s Store example, that begins to eliminate a lot of the architectural detail that was right within the brickwork on the building. The B&amp ; B Rexall Drugs in Bristow is also an example of a native stone building, in this case, that&#039 ; s been completely painted and so you&#039 ; ve lost that warm, interesting color and texture of the native stone. Once buildings have been painted, there&#039 ; s no safe way to remove the paint without damaging the brick or native stone surface, and so the thing to do is use the paint to recapture the original character of the building as in this example, you can use the color to really bring out those architectural details. The Jackson Office Equipment building in Elk City is a marvelous opportunity to use color to really highlight the details of that building, and unfortunately that hasn&#039 ; t been discovered yet by the owners. The mini-mall is a kind of marketing concept that we&#039 ; re beginning to see on more main streets as larger buildings are not really viable for one establishment. This particular example is in Elk City, and let&#039 ; s just juxtapose it with the next example, and that way of advertising the retail establishments in that mini-mall. You can see how much stronger it is when you&#039 ; re using the whole façade of the building to advertise what&#039 ; s going on inside, and not trying to attract people just by the use of a less-than-interesting white plastic sign. The very prosperous building owner is another reason that we&#039 ; ve--very prosperous retailer--is another reason we&#039 ; ve seen a lot of changes on main street, and in this case at the Otasco store in Bristow, you can see the typical approach has been to paint the buildings all one color and then store of string the sign down the block to show the joint ownership. This next example is another way of expressing that joint ownership, or the expansion of a prosperous retailer. And simply by using coordinated sign bands placed right within the architecture, you understand that all three of those stores are under the same management, but they&#039 ; ve left the original integrity of the three separate structures intact. The J.C. Penney in Elk City is the more typical approach that we see on Oklahoma main streets of simply painting the buildings the same color and then tacking the sign somewhere midway between the two. Another alternative way of announcing that joint ownership is this example of the awnings and the use of the color--the green paint--to denote the mutual ownership of this, of these three buildings. And the Todd Furniture Store in Elk City is an example of the painting everything one color and spreading the signs out, basically. Not a very exciting approach, it doesn&#039 ; t add very much to the street. The next section we want to discuss will be signs and the fact that signs come in many different forms in the community [and] are obviously a very strong visual element. In this case, the furniture store and also kitchen stuff in Ada, you see the painted-on sign and you also see the flush-mounted sign. In many cases there&#039 ; s a place right within the architecture of a building to put the sign, and that area was called the sign band. Here&#039 ; s an example of the H&amp ; H Tire Center in Elk City that has used that existing place within the architecture to put the sign. You can see what that does to the total façade of the building--you use the whole building as a way to advertise the store, not just the sign, not just the display windows. A much stronger kind of marketing approach. The Alamo is also a good example of placement of sign within the architecture so that it&#039 ; s integrated into the façade of the building. Both the Alamo and then the Tuckbox Alamo are good examples of that approach. Sims Mini-Mart is in a group of buildings that the owners got together and decided that they would try a joint marketing approach, and by coordinating their sign bands, using a new coat of paint and some awnings, came up with this kind of a joint statement which really strengthens the street and helps each of the retailers within the establishment attract more customers. The white plastic interior lip sign with the red letters is a very classic sign for main street. The problem is, there&#039 ; s so many of them now that it really doesn&#039 ; t stand out. It&#039 ; s not special, it doesn&#039 ; t say anything unusual to potential customers. The idea of shape signs is a creative alternative to that very standard white plastic approach and it&#039 ; s something that has a great deal of appeal to pedestrians. The Cook&#039 ; s Fancy is a neat kind of example of using the shapes within the sign and then reflecting it within the display and the display window to reinforce that identity for potential customers. Awnings are another kind of element on the street and awnings can be used--as in this case at the Big Cheese--to make a clever kind of marketing statement. Or, in this example where we have two retailers within the same building who decide they want to work together, the awnings and the use of coordinated sign bands integrate that whole façade so that they are reinforcing one another&#039 ; s marketing strategy. Here&#039 ; s an example with two brick buildings--one-story brick buildings in Bristow that are of a very similar type and a joint approach between these retailers using coordinated awnings and placement of signs could make a very strong statement to the street. As it is now, they&#039 ; re each sort of trying to get their own message across and neither one terribly successfully. Townscape programs are also concerned about pedestrians and the areas within the street that are intended for pedestrian use and for automobile use. And in this example you can see that there&#039 ; s normally very little definition between those zones. There&#039 ; s no way of defining that edge. Now here&#039 ; s one way that could improve that--the use of some simple shrubs to define where the pedestrian area is, where the parking lot is, where the area is for the automobiles. And here&#039 ; s another way of defining that edge--the use of an inexpensive wooden fence and also some shrubbery. You can see in this example, they&#039 ; ve also used some courses of brickwork within the sidewalk to vary the paving surface and add a little bit more interest to the street for the people, and obviously you want people on your streets if you want people to come into your stores and do some business there. But more typically, this example in Ada is the way we find out streets divided into different zones. You can see that the pedestrian zone is gray concrete that&#039 ; s separated from the gray asphalt of the street through the use of the gray aluminum poles--not very interesting, not very inviting. Here&#039 ; s an alternative: the use of some brick paving along the edge of the sidewalk and the addition of a few street trees and planters. A simple kind of alternative that makes a huge difference to people on the street. Here&#039 ; s another kind of alternative--the use of some granite pavers for the sidewalk surface, and then some plants and trees and benches, that makes the street an inviting place to be and lets the pedestrian know that there really is a place intended for them, that they&#039 ; re welcome on the street, and obviously the automobile zone is clearly defined. &quot ; Street furniture&quot ; is an interesting kind of euphemism which refers to the items that we furnish our streets--the signs, the waste receptacles, and in this case also the mailbox. Here&#039 ; s an example of how street furniture can be effectively grouped--you see the waste receptacle, the slight swelling of the corner so that there&#039 ; s a place for the shrubs, and then the bicycle rack. Street furniture can be used to add a lot of special interest and character to the community. Also, makes the street an interest place for people to spend time. Public information is something that every community is concerned about, and this is typically the way it is presented on a tall aluminum pole, which becomes rusted and is easily bent. A very simple alternative to that would be the use of a low wooden stake that actually puts that information at driver&#039 ; s-eye level and doesn&#039 ; t have the spindly quality, I guess you could say, of the aluminum poles. Another way to add special interest to a community is through the different signage that you use to communicate street names as in this case. The Two Market Street indicator just really makes the place seem a little bit more interesting than just your average standard way of explaining that. Now this is an example of how you can find parking and this is also an example. There&#039 ; s two different ways of presenting it, and just think for a minute which way you would rather get your information and which--and what kind of an impression it gives you of that community. Parking is always an incredible issue in downtowns. There never seems to be enough parking, so let&#039 ; s take a minute and look at parking lots--and this is a typical one in Ada. You can see that generally, parking lots tend to be rather inhospitable environments that aren&#039 ; t terribly inviting. And a little bit of landscaping can make a huge difference, as in this case with a simple grass median and a few trees, a different type light fixture, makes the parking lot more manageable, less dreadful in the summertime when we have all that heat rising up off the asphalt. Alleyways are another thing to consider in a townscape program because while you have existing assets in a town, as we talked about in the beginning of the show, there&#039 ; s also hidden opportunities and simple treatments, as in this case the addition of some trees to the alleyway, can make a huge difference in the impression that people have of the community. Storage tanks and water towers are also another neat kind of opportunity that we have in many Oklahoma towns, and it&#039 ; s potentially a very good project for local arts councils to sponsor a design competition and come up with some sort of a mural that can be used to decorate those tanks. This example is a mural that was done on some storage tanks outside of Boston. Makes them a real asset, rather than some sort of a looming eyesore on the horizon. Any size community can participate in a townscape program, and this particular example is Normandy, Tennessee. You can see the interesting hand-carved sign they&#039 ; ve selected to announce their community and give it a special identity. You can also see here that they&#039 ; ve applied some of these principles we&#039 ; ve been talking about. They&#039 ; ve used some awnings, the use of color coordinating the awnings with the buildings, they&#039 ; ve put street trees in, little shrubs and planters, and also some interesting light fixtures. Now this is a very small town. That&#039 ; s the entire main street of Normandy, Tennessee, population 350. Yet they felt strongly that they wanted to make a special statement about their community and chose this approach. A larger townscape program happened in Chelsea, Massachusetts and in that townscape program stores like Hattie&#039 ; s discovered that behind that oversized sign they had this kind of a storefront lurking. Very simple, brick columns with capitals at the top replace the large sign with a sign that fits within the architecture of the building and simply used some dark anodizing paint on the bright aluminum storefront so that it toned it down and brings the whole façade into a unity so that now Hattie&#039 ; s is not advertised just by her sign, but by the whole front of that building. Allen&#039 ; s was also a building in a Chelsea and you can see that it&#039 ; s really anybody&#039 ; s guess what&#039 ; s going to be under all of that advertising once it&#039 ; s peeled away from the building, but through using some old photos the designers discovered that behind that advertising would probably be a façade of this type. You can see the dental work in the brick at the top of the building. Well here on the left is Allen&#039 ; s implemented today. And you can also get some sense of the other stores on that block in Chelsea and how they applied these townscape principles we&#039 ; re talking about. Look at the rather attractive shuttered treatment on the second story of the Card Gallery. An alternative to the main street problem, the second-story main street problem we&#039 ; ve been talking about for Oklahoma towns. This is the way the street looked in Chelsea prior to the townscape program. That same lack of definition problem, lack of edge, there&#039 ; s the gray asphalt, the gray aluminum poles, and then the gray sidewalk. Not a very inviting place for pedestrians. And here&#039 ; s that same street today, after the townscape program. Now you can see, this is a rather elaborate approach. They&#039 ; ve bricked the sidewalks, added new light fixtures, the street trees and very elaborate grillwork to protect the trees. But look how inviting and interesting it makes that street, and obviously there&#039 ; s a whole lot more activity going on on that street now because it&#039 ; s more of a vital place to be. Basically, this gives you an overview of the issues we&#039 ; re concerned about in a townscape program, and once again the thing to consider is What are the assets on your main street and your town. Drop back and look for those and then look at the things that maybe you&#039 ; re not so proud of and begin to consider what kinds of changes could be made that will highlight the assets that exist within your community, strengthen those architectural features in the buildings, and not disrupt those original patterns that existed and that gave main street its special identity and gave the buildings their special unity. (end of recording) audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0016-01_Lecture.xml OHP-0016-01_Lecture.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 6000 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lecture: Storefronts of Bristow Description An account of the resource This is an undated recording of an unknown woman presenting a professional lecture on maintaining the historical storefronts and township of Bristow. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP-0016-01 Subject The topic of the resource Lecture on Storefronts of Bristow Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/db90d1d0f4929df754fef0006929db4a.png 57f3fa691bb7298f055ad512f5db0f8b Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Debbie Blansett Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Frank Deuel Chapman Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History item type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka Record. This field does not impact the OHMS / Omeka integration and is optional if you do not need to map the “keywords” field in the OHMS XML to the corresponding Omeka record. Frank Chapman Bristow OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 OHP2-0001 Frank Deuel Chapman and Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman OHP2-0001 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Family Histories Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bristow Histories Frank Chapman Bristow Frank Deuel Chapman Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman Debbie Blansett MP3 1:|28(2)|48(3)|71(13)|100(2)|117(1)|128(7)|144(13)|156(13)|191(5)|208(2)|240(6)|270(15)|291(2)|333(9)|372(14)|396(7)|411(13)|433(4)|474(1)|517(14)|538(7)|563(3)|591(9)|645(3)|694(4)|724(6)|753(6)|799(5)|832(6)|890(2)|944(14)|965(2)|975(9)|986(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP2-001 Frank Chapman.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it’s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I’m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their—in their home, and they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you’ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that’s all of us. We’re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? Introduction of interview and early history of Frank and Gloria Chapman covered wagon ; embalmer ; Frank Deuel Chapman ; Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman ; Hugh Chapman ; Thelma Chapman ; World War I Chapman Funeral Home ; Frank Chapman ; Gloria Chapman 263 Moving to Bristow and early medical practice DB: Alright. Okay, so today you’re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency—an internship in Tulsa—Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long—P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would’ve probably worked out. Discussion of moving to Bristow Dr. Norfleet ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp ; Rinda Farris ; Sisler Hospital Bristow ; Hillcrest ; Max Kemp 516 Colleagues and Co-Workers DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office— FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet— FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had ‘em spoiled, though. Discussion and memories of co-workers Charmaine ; Dr. Norfleet ; Edna Mitchell ; house calls ; Jo Forester ; June Keiser ; Mrs. Korkames ; Myra Jane Trigalet ; Thea Runt coworkers ; doctor ; nurse ; receptionist 691 Hospital Fundraisers DB: So, at the—at the hospital, they—it had been built in the— FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still— FC: It was— DB: It needed to be updated— FC: It needed to be updated— Fundraisers for medical equipment fundraisers ; hosptial ; nurses ; St. Francis ; Tracy Kelly fundraisers ; hospitals 787 Rexall Drug Store FC: --I had one other story: I—I went—well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and—(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was— Meeting Berta at Rexall Drug Store Bristow ; Rexall Drug Store Rexall Drug Store 844 Friendship with Max Kemp DB: And Max—you didn’t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I’d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in— FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and—you know. Friendship with Max Kemp Jennifer Kemp ; Max Kemp Max Kemp 892 Stories about Emory King FC: Anyway. That’s—that’s about the only good stories I’ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don’t know whether I’ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine— DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) Stories about Emory King anesthesia ; Emory King ; ether ; surgery ; tonsils Emory King ; surgery ; tonsils 1071 Changes in Anesthesia DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. Changes in anesthesia anesthesia ; ether ; St Francis ; surgery anesthesia ; ether ; sugery 1152 Retirement DB: And you were in practice from— FC: Sixty-four to— DB: Nineteen sixty-four— FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? Dr. Chapman eases into retirement brain bleed ; Bristow ; Cherokee ; retirement retirement 1300 Church and community involvement DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma’am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and— GC: Yeah, he’s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time— Church and community involvement Bristow ; church ; football ; wrestling church ; community 1369 Discussion of children's events and family tree DB: And I know that you have been—I’ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn’t seem as important as they used to. They—then they were really important when the kids were parti—my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We— FC: My daughter was a majorette in the—or, a drum major her senior year, and— GC: And in the band. Discussion of children's events and family tree band ; Debbie Chapman ; fishing ; football ; Hugh Chapman ; hunting ; music ; wrestling community ; family ; sports 1533 Updates on grown children DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso—or that’s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. Updates on grown children Benny Chapman ; Debbie ; Frankie Chapman ; Matt Chapman ; Physician Family 1687 Story of the name &quot ; Petula&quot ; and the birth of Matthew GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was— FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just— Story of the name &quot ; Petula&quot ; baby ; Matthew ; names ; Petula Petula 1842 Conclusion and Poem by Deborah DB: I just think it’s really neat that—that just the distance you’ve come. And the people that helped get you there—that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn’t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I’m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine— Conclusion and Poem by Deborah Deborah Chapman ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp Conclusion ; Dr. Chapman ; Gloria Chapman ; Max Kemp ; poem FC: (Indecipherable) DB: Yes. FC: Is it running? DB: Yes, it&#039 ; s running. This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historical Society&#039 ; s ongoing Oral History Project. The date is November 10, 2020, and I&#039 ; m sitting here with Frank and Gloria Chapman at their--in their home, and they&#039 ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, if you&#039 ; ll give me your full name. FC: Frank Deuel Chapman. GC: Gloria Ellen Mayhan Chapman. DB: Alright, that&#039 ; s all of us. We&#039 ; re ready to begin. What was your name at birth? FC: Born January the 26, 1934 in Cleveland, Oklahoma. DB: And you were Frank Deuel-- FC: Deuel Chapman. DB: Were you born at home or in a hospital? FC: At home. DB: And your parents--what were their names? FC: Hugh Chapman and Thelma Chapman. DB: And were your parents married? FC: (chuckling) Yes, they were married. DB: Or at least that&#039 ; s what they told you. FC: (chuckling) That&#039 ; s what they told me. DB: Tell me how they came to be in Oklahoma. FC: My mother came to Oklahoma from Kansas in a covered wagon to a little community outside of Stillwater, and they lived in a sod house for a while and eventually they moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma, where her folks--Mrs. Deuel and Albert Deuel--ran a hotel and boarding house. And the whole family participated in the running of the--feeding of workers and housing. So it was kind of a nice operation. GC: Mmm-hmm. DB: And your dad? FC: My dad came to Oklahoma after serving in World War II. GC: One, hon. FC: Oh, World War I. Gee, I kinda--that&#039 ; s right. World War I, to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and he was a licensed mortician--or embalmer, and worked there for a little while and then moved to Cleveland, Oklahoma and operated out of one of the furniture stores there for about a year or so, and then opened his own business--the Chapman Funeral Home. And it&#039 ; s still in existence. It&#039 ; s called Chapman-Black, now. DB: And he runs it with his son-in-law--or I mean he ran it with his son-in-- FC: Yeah--he run it with his son-in-law. DB: And you said that--that he had a claim to fame, your father. FC: Yeah, he was one of the first legal embalmers in the State of Oklahoma. (chuckles) DB: And pretty young, when he became that. FC: Yeah, about I think nineteen, something like that. DB: How many brothers and sisters do you have? FC: I have two sisters and one brother. DB: And their names? FC: Betty Jo (ph), Billie Lou (ph), and Hugh Moody, Jr. DB: Your father was a mortician, did your mother work outside the home? FC: She--yes. She--initially, she worked outside the home. She worked in a bank as a secretary and teller. And then when they opened their own business she went to work with them. DB: And your spouse, Mrs. Gloria. FC: Yeah. GC: I graduated from high school and went to work for the REA--or the Indian Electric, then. And worked a year &#039 ; til he graduated. So then we got married. (chuckles) DB: Okay. And you got married on what day? FC: Fourteenth day of June 1952. DB: And you have how many children? FC: Four. DB: And what are their names? FC: Deborah Jean, Frank Deuel Chapman, Jr., Benj Clay--Benjamin Chapman, and Matthew Clay Chapman. DB: Alright. Okay, so today you&#039 ; re going to tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bristow, and spent your time here. FC: Okay. I graduated from medical school in 1961. Did a residency--an internship in Tulsa--Hillcrest. And then a residency in primary practice in Huey Long--P. Long Charity in Louisiana. We moved from there to Cleveland, Oklahoma and opened a practice there. And being a young man there and a citizen of the community, and was still looked down upon as, That little Frankie Chapman, I decided it was probably time to move somewhere else. Although eventually it would&#039 ; ve probably worked out. But anyway, Max Kemp came to visit me there while I was practicing, and said that he would like for me to come to Bristow and meet the people, because they needed a doctor and their doctor was leaving town--who was Dr. Norfleet. So I went to visit. I went to Dr. Norfleet&#039 ; s home in Bristow. It was on a Wednesday evening. And they had several people there, and they were having a nice party and I thought, Well, this would be a nice place to live, you know? Anyway, he was very gracious and I thought it over and I decided to come. To Bristow. I came to Bristow on--I started practice on June 1, 1964. And I was at the Bristow Hospital on the first day of my journey, and talking to Norfleet, and he was telling me what he had to do. And then he said, Hey, by the way, would you like to deliver a baby? And I said, Why not? DB: (chuckling) FC: So I delivered Rinda Farris that very day of my first day in practice in the Bristow Hospital. I had a office on West Eighth Street--which was the old Sisler Hospital when I first came to town--and I mean it was old. Antiquated. X-ray machine looked like the original Roentgen--who&#039 ; s invented x-ray--put it in. DB: (chuckles) FC: But anyway, made do until we got enough money together so we could get a better one. Which we did, eventually. I started my practice there, then subsequently moved from there to on West Fifth Street where I--we remodeled an old building and had my office. And I retired out of that office. I delivered babies for the first few years in practice, and in the mid-70s I quit delivering babies just to get some rest. (chuckles) DB: (chuckles) FC: Invariably when I&#039 ; d go off to do something and then I&#039 ; d come home and lay down and go to sleep, it would be, Dr., this is the hospital, Mrs. So-and-so&#039 ; s in labor and, you know, you&#039 ; d be completely wore out. So, I did that for two or three or four years, and finally I said, That&#039 ; s enough. I&#039 ; m not doing that any more. So I quit ob. I helped the hospital get some modernization. We got the first intensive care beds in our hospital--with monitoring from St. Francis with them--we got that done. Then we got a new monitored crib for newborns, and then subsequently all of the doctors quit delivering babies. (laughing) So we didn&#039 ; t get much use out of it. DB: When did that start--that they stopped delivering babies? FC: Oh, it was in-- GC: When Matt was born. FC: When Matt? I think Matt was the last one born out there. DB: So, like, in the late sixties? FC: Yeah, yeah. I delivered my own, and on occasions I delivered of some of the other doctors--I mean, Dr. Krug or Dr. Cooper&#039 ; s babies when they needed sections, &#039 ; cause they couldn&#039 ; t do sections. I--I did &#039 ; em for &#039 ; em. DB: So they continued after the sixties. FC: Yeah, they continued after I quit. But they--then they--after they got tired, they (chuckles) also gave it up. DB: Well now, when you came to Bristow on Eighth Street, did you take the office-- FC: Of the old doctor? DB: Of Dr. Norfleet-- FC: Oh, Dr. Norfleet. Dr. Norfleet. And it was old. I mean really old. GC: And they (indecipherable) a hospital DB: And you kept his people? FC: Kept his people, and--he had a nice practice. And a lot of nice people. And he--he had &#039 ; em spoiled, though. GC: (laughing) FC: He--they&#039 ; d say, Well, wait--I don&#039 ; t feel like comin&#039 ; down today, will you come by the house? you know, and they--that stuff. And I did that for a while! And finally I said, No, I&#039 ; m not doing that anymore. If they call, say, No, he&#039 ; s quit making house calls, you have to come see him. That&#039 ; s all there is to it. DB: So they stayed with you as long as you stayed on Eighth, and then you got new staff when you moved to Fifth? FC: No, I--they took &#039 ; em with--I took my staff with me over to the Fifth Street. I took--Charmaine went over with me, and Jo Forester went with me. And they stayed. And then Charmaine moved off. And then Jo retired, and then we got--and also June Keiser (ph) was our receptionist, and she stayed there, and then she got sick and then retired. So-- GC: And then Dr. Mitchell&#039 ; s wife? FC: And then I had-- DB: Edna? FC: Yeah. GC: Edna. FC: I had Edna Mitchell for a while in my lab. And then, I think, Thea Runt (ph) worked in our lab for us. And Mrs.--oh, gosh. GC: Charmaine, though I can&#039 ; t remember her last name. FC: Yeah, I was thinking-- GC: That&#039 ; s awful. FC: Myra Jane Trigalet was my office nurse for a year. And then she went to--I hated to lose her--she went to the nursing home &#039 ; cause they could pay more money than I could. (chuckling) But that--she was a delight. I mean, a real delight. DB: Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: I don&#039 ; t--I don&#039 ; t know whether you knew her or not, but-- DB: I don&#039 ; t know that I knew her. I remember Larry&#039 ; s mother speaking fondly of her. FC: She was--I-- She was made of cast iron. She lost a son who was electrocuted. One lost in the war. Lost two in car wrecks in Tulsa--killed one day over there. And she kept on going, you know, I don&#039 ; t know how but she did. And she was just a delightful person. Her and Mrs. Korkames were the building blocks of the Catholic church! (laughing) And every Christmas they had the Christmas sales for cookies and what have you, and everybody shopped with them up there. DB: They still do that. FC: Yeah. We do, we still buy their stuff. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: But that was kind of neat. DB: So, at the--at the hospital, they--it had been built in the-- FC: Built in 1954, I think. DB: And so it was still-- FC: It was-- DB: It needed to be updated-- FC: It needed to be updated-- DB: --and they were behind-- FC: --and they, they needed new things. Like, they needed monitoring systems for cardiac patients in the intensive care unit--which we got. Initially, we got it on a remote basis from St. Francis. We had a direct line from St. Francis to our emergency room and they--the nurses could talk to St. Francis, tell them what our patients had, what we needed to do, and how to do it. And that went on a while, and then finally we got our nurses educated and they could do their own evaluations and treatment. DB: So did you have to have big fundraisers to get these-- FC: I--I--I--- DB: How did you? FC: --went up and down Main Street! (chuckling) Talked to people, said We need this, can you, can you help us out? And we got it done. DB: You said that when you were new in town, you had gone to the bank. FC: Yeah! I went to meet--I went to talk to Tracy Kelly when I come to town, and told him I was a new doctor in town and that I had a thousand dollars in my pocket and I probably was going to need some money to open my office and keep it going for a while, and I wondered if I could get a loan if I needed it. And he said, Write the check. And so--but I never had to do that. DB: Well. That&#039 ; s nice to know it was there if you-- FC: Oh, yeah! DB: --needed to. FC: Yeah. GC: They took us on a hayride, we--(indecipherable) FC: --I had one other story: I--I went--well, I was in the bank, and then the Rexall Drug Store was right next door, and--(aside) what was her name? GC: Myra? FC: Huh? No. DB: The Rexall. FC: Oh, it was-- GC: Oh--Bert, Berth-- FC: Bertha! Berta. (ph) GC: Berta! (ph) FC: Berta. (ph) Anyway. Berta (ph) was there. And I went in there and asked about something and she was really indignant, you know? And just really giving me old billy hell, you know, about why she&#039 ; s doing this and that, and I thought, Okay, well I&#039 ; ve got a big surprise. She said, Who are you, boy? And I said, I&#039 ; m the new doctor in town. I&#039 ; m going to write prescriptions in this community and WHOOOO-WELL! (pounding noise) DB: Complete change in her attitude! FC: (loudly) Here we are, welcome to--welcome to Bristow! (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: So I thought that was kind of neat. DB: Yes. FC: And we got along fine after that. No problems. DB: And Max--you didn&#039 ; t know Max before he came to see you in Cleveland? FC: No. I&#039 ; d never met him before. DB: Did you continue to be friends after he came to see you in-- FC: Oh, yeah, we were real good friends. I went out and hunted on his place, and talked to him about guns and--you know. GC: Well, you delivered their baby. FC: Yeah. I delivered Rin--I delivered Rinda on the first and about the tenth or twelfth I delivered Jennifer. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Kemp. DB: Just right after you came here. FC: Yeah. So I delivered two babies within two weeks after I got here. DB: Oh, wow. (laughing) Say, This is a young man, we&#039 ; re gonna get him while he&#039 ; s-- FC: Yeah, while he&#039 ; s-- DB: --his legs are good. FC: --while he&#039 ; s fresh, you know. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Anyway. That&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s about the only good stories I&#039 ; ve got, other than about Dr. King, you know. I don&#039 ; t know whether I&#039 ; ve told that or not, but. Emor--(chuckles) Emory King (ph) was quite a man. He was in his nine-- DB: Emory? (ph) FC: Emory King. (ph) DB: Emory. (ph) FC: He would--came here in about the early 1900s. And he was one of a kind. He met me at the hospital one day and said, Would you like to go my--see my farm? And I told him, Yeah. I&#039 ; d like to do that. So I got in the car with him and the first thing he did was unwrapped a new package of tobacco, promptly poured it in his coat pocket, dipped his pipe in it and lit it, then we backed up and run into something and went Bang! And he says, Time to go forward now. And then we took off and-- DB: Oh, my goodness. FC: We took--took off and went to his farm. Aand we got back safe and sound, by the way. DB: And he was an older man when this happened? FC: He was in his nineties. Anyway. GC: But he was loved. (chuckles) FC: I--I swore then that I would never ride with him again, you know? But two or three days later he said, Do you do tonsils, doctor? And I said, Yeah, I do tonsils. He said, I got one scheduled in the morning. And I said, Who&#039 ; s gonna give the anesthesia? And he said, Oh, I am. And I thought, Oh, God. Help me, Lord. Why did I volunteer for this? But anyway, I got up. I didn&#039 ; t sleep all night the night before. And I got up and we went in and scrubbed up. Took the patient to surgery. He got an ether mask and a can and started dripping ether. The kid went to sleep. I took his tonsils out. We didn&#039 ; t have any problem whatsoever. And I thank the Lord for every bit of that, I&#039 ; ll tell you for sure. Because I was uptight the whole time. One other incident--he was--he had one of his patients come to see me. And we&#039 ; d had some words before. And she come in very humble and said, Would you take care of me? And I said, Why sure, I&#039 ; m gonna do it. And I said, Well what&#039 ; s the problem? And she said, Well, I&#039 ; ve--you know, I&#039 ; ve been going to Dr. King forever. He&#039 ; s been here forever. And I just dearly love him, but she said, I think he&#039 ; s too old. And I said, Well, why do--why do you think that? She said, Well I went over there yesterday and, she said, I had a sore throat and he looked at me and said, Well, we&#039 ; ll give you a shot. He said, Hike your dress tail up there and I&#039 ; ll give you a shot. She said, I did. And he give me a shot, but he stuck me in the finger instead of in my butt! DB: (laughing) GC: (laughing) FC: And she decided that right then and there that she needed to change doctors. DB: (laughing) Yes. Yes. FC: I think that&#039 ; s a--that&#039 ; s a unique story about Dr. King. DB: Well--and I found it interesting when you talked about the anesthetic. That it was a ether drop. FC: Yeah, ether drip. DB: A lot different than the anesthetic that we have now. GC: He did. FC: Oh, yeah, they don&#039 ; t do that now. Number one, ether is a fire hazard. I mean--you can&#039 ; t have any spark or it blows the damn building up. So, that was a hazard. And then--it wasn&#039 ; t real handy. And the people were sick after they got it. And they got a lot better anesthetics now. DB: Yes. FC: They give IV anesthetics and (indecipherable). DB: But the fact that--that&#039 ; s how you did those surgeries. FC: Yeah. Yeah. DB: That&#039 ; s a pretty amazing thing. GC: And-and you know-- DB: To see that we started here-you started here, and now it&#039 ; s progressed-- FC: Yeah. DB: --to where we are now. GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. GC: Yeah. FC: Yeah. The anesthesia has really changed. And--and our hospital&#039 ; s changed. We&#039 ; ve been--went from a storage hospital to a hospital that actually treated people, you know. We just stored &#039 ; em. I mean, we had a--we developed an intensive care unit with a monitoring system and this monitoring system was initially connected to St. Francis by a phone wire that was permanent. And they could monitor these people in conjunction with us, and we could keep our people at home. Which was nice. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: That took some doing. DB: And you were in practice from-- FC: Sixty-four to-- DB: Nineteen sixty-four-- FC: To July 1, 2000. DB: And you just hung it all up then, in 2000? FC: For a little--about three months. DB: (laughs) GC: (laughs) DB: And then what did you do? FC: Started doing locals--working for other doctors. I worked for-- GC: The Cherokees. FC: What was her name here? What was her name here? GC: Ummm. FC: You know who I&#039 ; m talking about. The lady doctor that was up on Main Street. GC: Oh! Yeah. FC: Well, I can&#039 ; t think of her name. GC: I can&#039 ; t-- FC: But I did it for the people here. Did work for the other doctors when they wanted to go on--on vacation. And then at other places. I&#039 ; ve worked in Nowata and Sallisaw and Stilwell and other places. GC: That was the Cherokees, he was filling in. FC: Yeah, and just filling in. And I did this until I was, oh, eighty-five. And then I--I had a misfortune. I was helping a man fix our tv antennae. Fell backwards in the closet. Bumped my head, and didn&#039 ; t think anything about it. Two weeks later, I went to work and I started to write and I couldn&#039 ; t write. My hand wouldn&#039 ; t go in the right ways. DB: Oh! FC: And I went home and I told my--I told the attending there, I said, I&#039 ; ve--I&#039 ; ve got to leave. There&#039 ; s something wrong. He offered to drive me home, but I said, No, I can drive, don&#039 ; t worry. So I got, went home and got her. And we were gonna go pay our taxes. And I couldn&#039 ; t get the damned car in the parking lot--as big as this damned house. DB: Mmm-mmm. FC: And she said, I&#039 ; m gonna call Matt. That&#039 ; s our oldest son--I mean, our youngest son. And he came over and he drove us to No--to Owasso where my daughter was a physician. And they did a scan on my head and I had a midline shift on my brain from a bleed. And they sent me to Tulsa and the next morning I was in hospital and had holes bored in my head and the blood clots removed and recovered in about six months. And I was back going again. And I--I did a little bit, not much. And I decided it was time to quit. DB: That was pretty much it. GC: Yeah. FC: Time to quit. But-- DB: Well, that sounds like a pretty exciting career. You are active in the Methodist Church here in Bristow? FC: Yes, ma&#039 ; am. DB: Sunday school teacher? FC: No, no. I just kind of go and watch and-- GC: Yeah, he&#039 ; s been going to each Sunday, he very seldom ever misses a time-- FC: Yeah, and try to help them with their finances and things like that. I was there--don&#039 ; t you go to-- DB: Yes. FC: We don&#039 ; t get many people. (chuckles) DB: No. We-- FC: Count of ten! (chuckles) DB: Yes. Kind of thin, now. Were you a Sunday school teacher, Gloria? GC: I helped out some. But I mostly was the choir, you know. I was in--I guess I sang in that choir for about thirty-something years. Dixie was my best friend. DB: Do anything--and Dixie was your best friend. She&#039 ; s a good one. GC: Yeah, we did some--we&#039 ; d sing together. We did some funeral services and-- FC: Yeah. GC: But she was. She--I loved my Dixie. DB: And I know that you have been--I&#039 ; ve seen you in the past at the high school for wrestling. FC: Yeah! I have supported the wrestling team. I used to go to all the football games and all the wrestling but it seems that as I got older, they didn&#039 ; t seem as important as they used to. They--then they were really important when the kids were parti--my children were participating. DB: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. GC: We-- FC: My daughter was a majorette in the--or, a drum major her senior year, and-- GC: And in the band. FC: The kids played this and that. The kids wrassled a little bit, but not much. DB: And you said that your nephew? FC: (Indecipherable) DB: --was the big wrestler? FC: Yeah, he was two-time state champion in 19--oh, 59. No, 19--58, &#039 ; 59, &#039 ; 59 and &#039 ; 60, I think. About then. DB: And his name? FC: Hugh. Chapman. They called him H. GC: Well, he has a Debbie Chapman, too. His mama. You probably know her. DB: Debbie Chapman? GC: Uh-huh. (agreeing) DB: Yes. FC: That&#039 ; s his mama. GC: Yeah, her-- FC: That&#039 ; s my nephew. GC: --her mother and daddy owned a funeral home in Hominy. And there were about six of those kids, all together. DB: Debbie owned a funeral home? FC: Her--his, her-- GC: Her mo--her father. FC: Her father did. DB: Her father. GC: Her father. DB: So there&#039 ; s a Chapman now that&#039 ; s a Debbie Chapman--Deborah Chapman. And she&#039 ; s married to H.M.? GC: Yeah. DB: So this is like his--your nephew&#039 ; s son? GC: They&#039 ; re named after each other, aren&#039 ; t they? DB: Oh, okay. FC: Yeah. GC: Isn&#039 ; t that right? DB: Because he was a wrestler, and then he had boys--they had two boys that-- GC: Yeah, two boys. DB: --were big wrestlers. FC: Yeah. And one was-- DB: Jack, and-- FC: --and you had H. DB: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) FC: Yeah. DB: So--and you--your boys really liked hunting and fishing. FC: Yeah, they did. GC: And music. FC: And-- DB: And music. GC: Lots of music. FC: Yeah. Yeah. Matt was in the band. And Benny was in the band. No--Matt was in the band about a month, and then he quit. But Benny was in the band and he--and Frankie was in the--Frankie played the tuba, and Benny--what the hell did he play? GC: I don&#039 ; t know about Frank-- FC: Well, he played the drums. Benny was the drummer. I always did cry because he had them damned kettle drums, you know, about three or four of &#039 ; em and you couldn&#039 ; t haul &#039 ; em in the car. I had to have a truck. GC: (laughing) DB: (laughing) Yes. Same way with a tuba. FC: They had a tuba-- DB: &#039 ; Cause we had a tuba player at our house. FC: Yeah? Well we happened to have--Frankie played the tuba, too. And he was a little bitty boy! I couldn&#039 ; t understand that. GC: You could just see his little head. (laughing) FC: Couldn&#039 ; t hardly see him for the horn! (laughing) GC: He was our smallest. Our oldest boy was--is the smallest of the boys. FC: Yeah, he&#039 ; s about five-six, I imagine. DB: And what do they do? Your daughter is a physician. FC: Yeah. Frankie was a mechanic. That was my oldest son. And Benny was a highway patrolman. And Matt is an Edward Jones financial counselor. DB: Okay. Okay. Are they close? Do they live close? FC: Well, Frankie lives in Morgan City, Louisiana. Debbie lives in Owasso--or that&#039 ; s Collinsville, now. But just part time. They live there part-time and they live in Belize the other half of the time. DB: Oh, she does mission work? FC: No, they just live down there. DB: (laughs) GC: Well, in a way she does, because she--if there&#039 ; s any little kids--which there&#039 ; s a bunch that needs taken care of and they don&#039 ; t have any doctor to help them in this--out. And so, she&#039 ; s just took it on herself to take care of &#039 ; em and-- FC: Benny-- GC: --no charge, no nothing, you know, just--she loves kid--she loves kids. FC: Benny--Benny lives in Sapulpa, and he is the one that was a policeman and trooper. State trooper. DB: Mmm-hmm. FC: Matthew lives in--damn. GC: The college town. FC: Man, I&#039 ; m a little--my new senior moments are getting me. DB: (chuckles) FC: Anyway. Where NSU--wherever you know where that-- DB: Tahlequah! GC: Tahlequah! FC: Tahlequah! Okay, he--he&#039 ; s a--he&#039 ; s a financial counselor. Or he has an Edward Jones office there. DB: So they&#039 ; re all--except the one in Louisiana--they&#039 ; re fairly close and you get to see them, and-- FC: Yeah! They&#039 ; re real close. GC: Yeah. And we just lost a grandson. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And it was his boy. They had a-- DB: Was Matt--Matt&#039 ; s son? FC: No, was Frankie&#039 ; s son. DB: Oh. GC: Frankie&#039 ; s son. FC: Frankie&#039 ; s son. He was thirty-five years old. GC: (simultaneously) Thirty-five years old. DB: That&#039 ; s a--that&#039 ; s a tough loss. GC: It--it really is. I just feel so sorry for &#039 ; em. They had the boy and the girl. The girl was the oldest. And she has two children of her own. And they&#039 ; re in--is it Atlanta? FC: Hmm? GC: Rachel. FC: Yeah, they live in South Carolina. I don&#039 ; t know what the name of the town is. GC: Do you remember when they had a singer named Petula? DB: Clark? GC: I think it was-- FC: Yeah. Yeah, it was from England. GC: Well, he wanted a girl the last time. Wanted to name her Petula. FC: That was just-- GC: Well, the nurses at the hospital were just going bananas. They said, He surely--you&#039 ; re not gonna let him name that--if it&#039 ; s a girl--Petula. Said, Well, I don&#039 ; t know! (chuckles) DB: Didn&#039 ; t have to worry about it, because you had a boy. FC: Had a boy! GC: Oh, they were just thrilled to death! (laughs) And Doctor Jones delivered him. But Frank was in there with me. And so I leaned over on his shoulder and they gave me the--whatever it is, the shot. FC: Yeah. GC: And it was the best delivery I&#039 ; d ever had! DB: So they--would that--was that commonplace? To at that time in 1967--that the dad would be with the mom? Or was it because you were-- FC: I think it was because I was a doctor. DB: Okay. GC: (laughing) He kept waiting to see Petula! DB: (laughing) It wasn&#039 ; t a normal thing like now? FC: No. DB: Where dads-- FC: Where the whole damn family&#039 ; s in there! You know? DB: Uh-huh. (agreeing) GC: No-- DB: Well, before COVID. FC: Yeah, COVID. DB: Now it&#039 ; s just so bad. FC: Now they can&#039 ; t gather up-- DB: But--couldn&#039 ; t wait to see your Petula! FC: Couldn&#039 ; t wait to see her! You know, we got it, though. GC: Your Petula? And then, our minister then was Reverend Fontaine. DB: Mmm-hmm. GC: And so he came out there. And he said, Oh, I&#039 ; m just so glad the Methodists are still (laughing) DB: That the Methodists are what? GC: --still having children! (laughing) I guess-- DB: (laughing) GC: He said it different, but he just kind of giggled. And then the--the other kids, they just couldn&#039 ; t wait to see him. FC: He said, When is Mark and Luke and John coming? GC: Oh, yeah! He said-- FC: I said, I don&#039 ; t think that--(laughing) DB: But you had Benjamin and Matthew, but Frank wasn&#039 ; t-- FC: No, he didn&#039 ; t come until-- DB: Oh, okay. GC: Now, there is a Deuel in the Bible. DB: Really! GC: Mmm-hmm. (agreeing) DB: A duel like--a fight? FC: No, like a name! GC: You leave out one &#039 ; e,&#039 ; so-- DB: You leave out one of the e&#039 ; s. GC: D-U-E-L instead of the D-U- FC: E-L. GC: Yeah. DB: E-U-E FC: Yeah. GC: But, and--and then Deborah. There&#039 ; s a Deborah in the Bible. DB: Yes. GC: But you probably knew that. FC: And a Matthew. GC: And a Matthew. DB: And a Benjamin. FC &amp ; GC (simultaneously): And a Benjamin. FC: Well, all of our kids are-- DB: You&#039 ; re covered. FC: They&#039 ; re covered. DB: You&#039 ; re covered. FC: They&#039 ; re gonna make it to heaven. You know? Their name counts. (laughing) DB: Well, I just-- FC: I think they&#039 ; ll (indecipherable) James or Williams! DB: I just think it&#039 ; s really neat that--that just the distance you&#039 ; ve come. And the people that helped get you there--that Max Kemp came, and Tracy was willing to help you out, and the time you spent, and the connections you made, and the families you helped. I just love hearing the stories. And we had a little bit of a glitch at the beginning of this interview. We did the entire interview, and the recorder wasn&#039 ; t on. So Dr. Chapman and Gloria allowed me to re-do the interview immediately. Some of the artifacts that I&#039 ; m going to attach to this are a--a medal that he received as a fifty-year college of medicine-- FC: Alumni. DB: Alumni. And a pic--it&#039 ; s a medal, a picture of the medal will go with this and a picture of the-- GC: Here&#039 ; s another one. This is all the doctors-- DB: Of the doctors that were present at the fifty-year ceremony. GC: This-- DB: So I&#039 ; ll add those. And then the last one I added was a poem that their daughter Deborah wrote for them on the occasion of their fiftieth anniversary. It says, Frank and Gloria Chapman, Life Together. It all started in a small town/Frank lived there his entire life/He was uptown and wasn&#039 ; t believing/He saw the girl he would make his wife/They courted all through junior and high school/They decided let&#039 ; s get married and then/We can set about building our life and begin/Frank pondered what would we do with our lives/Gloria said go to medical school, you&#039 ; re no fool/We can treat animals or people, whatever you choose/As long as we are together, we have nothing to lose/With the love and help from both families/They survived college, medical school, and internships/They traveled near and far, scrimped and saved/Went the distance that was set/So they could make their own way/They started their family with a small girl/Then came three boys/All with their handsome looks, dark hair, and blue eyes/Everyone would always recognize/A Chapman child was truly a blessing/For Frank and Gloria, life kept on being a lesson/Through weddings, babies, life, and death/In love and in loss, we all learned the meaning/ Of true love, family, and commitment/Their love is a lesson for all to receive/You never know what will happen when you truly believe/As long as you are together you can achieve/Anything is possible as long as you believe. June 14, 1952 through eternity. I want to thank you all again for allowing me--twice!--to interview you for the Bristow Historical Society&#039 ; s Oral Histories Project. And if you don&#039 ; t have anything else to share, I&#039 ; m going to sign off. FC: Alright. GC: Well, we&#039 ; ve enjoyed having you! FC: Yeah! DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: We really have and I--like I told Frank, I said I can remember back, I always thought they were the sweetest couple--and then that baby was just a doll. DB: Well, thank you very much. GC: So. (end of recording) audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml OHP2-0001-03_Frank_Chapman.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 2500 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP2-0001 Subject The topic of the resource Bristow Histories Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-11-10 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio Description An account of the resource In this November 2020 interview, Dr. Frank and Gloria Chapman discuss how they arrived in Bristow to begin a new medical career, Dr. King, improvements at the local hospital, medical coworkers, loyal friends, church and community involvement and his love of his family. https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/fcaf895bc27558c99cf6a4ed1af31562.jpg 023087592eb0988d90c5c6693347b652 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wanda Newton Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jesse "J.L." Darnell OHMS Object This field contains the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file within the OHMS Viewer) https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and / or Transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka 5.4 Unknown Date OHP2-0002 Jesse &quot ; J.L.&quot ; Darnell OHP2-0002 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Lectures Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jesse &quot ; J.L.&quot ; Darnell Wanda Newton MP3 1:|12(2)|23(1)|35(8)|46(9)|53(17)|65(10)|76(3)|85(1)|95(10)|107(10)|119(7)|129(6)|141(10)|155(7)|166(11)|175(11)|184(4)|196(13)|208(9)|217(16)|223(6)|230(4)|241(1)|253(13)|263(1)|271(15)|281(5)|291(3)|307(9)|316(15)|327(9)|340(3)|348(1)|360(1)|364(13)|371(13)|379(9)|389(2)|400(13)|409(1)|419(8)|429(1)|442(11)|453(3)|463(7)|480(6)|510(4)|519(12)|540(11)|561(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0021 Darnell, JL.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction, Statehood, and first Oklahoma Schools WN: -ninety-six. I’m Wanda Newton. I’m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he’s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He’s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I—it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don’t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. Discussion of the first schools in Oklahoma buggy ; Constitutional Convention ; Creek County ; Creek County Superintendent ; Jeff Burgess ; Jesse Darnell ; JL Darnell ; Oklahoma ; P.T. Frye ; Raymond Freeland ; schools ; statehood ; subscription school ; Wanda Newton schools ; statehood : https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/id/5031/ A historical map showing some of these schools (McCasland Maps, 1917) https://us-places.com/Oklahoma/Creek-County.htm A list of additional historical schools in Creek County 203 Walking to school and one room schoolhouses Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they’d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or ‘15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Small districts so children could walk to school fire ; one-room school ; school ; stove one room school 317 Board of Education and Elections They organized—you know how a board of education—as soon as the—as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected—they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn’t hold elections like we do today. They’d—they’d post five notices in the district that they’s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. Formation of board of education and holding elections board members ; board of education ; clerk ; director ; election ; member ; school board board of education ; election 417 Millage and organizing school districts All right, now. One of the things that they voted on—after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn’t—didn’t—they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that’d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn’t get but about $40 or $50 a month. Discussion of millage and the division of school districts Big Deep Fork ; Bristow ; Iron Post ; Little Deep Fork ; millage ; Mills Chapel ; school district Millage ; school districts 517 Teaching Requirements and College Certification They had to—to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days—or very few of ‘em—had college degrees. They didn’t—they didn’t go to college. So what they did, they—they sent the—the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. Discussion of early school teachers and their educational requirements college ; Frank Burgess ; Jeff Burgess ; Sapulpa ; superintendent ; teachers requirements ; school ; teachers 674 Oil Discovery and School Consolidation Let’s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days—you old timers know—that the oilfield workers worked right out in the—lived right out in the district. Discovery of oil results in population increase and school consolidiation Creek County ; Dan Baker ; Drumright ; Dry Hill ; Gypsy ; Lakeside ; Milfay ; oil ; oilfield ; oilfield camps ; Oilton ; Olive ; Slick ; Sunnyslope ; Tabor ; Welmont oil ; school 922 Ace Borger And there’s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace—now, the auditor, the guy he knew at—that audited schools—lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or ’15. The story of Ace Borger Ace Borger ; Borger Texas ; Dan Baker ; Pitcher Oklahoma ; Tom Slick Ace Borger ; Tom Slick 1043 High Schools, Boom Towns, and School Closings Here’s something that a lot of you didn’t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn’t get—well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having—organizing little high schools. Memories of high schools, boom towns, and school closing Happy Corner ; High school ; Iron Post ; Shamrock ; Valentine High School ; World War II school ; Shamrock 1196 Bristow Public Schools Let’s see. What else you might want to know about. I don’t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don’t—they’re not very good [inaudible], but it’s schools around Bristow that existed back in the ‘20s and ‘30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. The schools that comprised Bristow Public Schools Bolin ; Brick Central ; Bristow Public Schools ; Depew ; Fairview ; Fisher School ; Glendale ; Mills Chapel ; Mountain Home ; Oakgrove ; Red Bank ; Slick ; Tuskegee ; Union Hill Bristow Public Schools 1414 Division of Schools and Buses Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill—the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north—and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in ’54 or something like that, ’55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale—that’s my little school—as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. The division of schools and school buses Bellvue ; Bristow ; buses ; Central Oak Grove ; Depew ; Genelle ; Glendale ; Kellyville ; Newby School ; Pine Hill ; Victor Chapel ; Wyatt buses ; Schools 1599 People of Bristow I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I’ll show you some films on it. The first one I’m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]—his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. Memories of people in Bristow Alcorn ; Bernice ; Bristow ; Carl Sparks ; Dillard Baker ; Emmett Dykes ; Eva Sanders ; Iron Post ; Jack Dykes ; Jack Hancock ; James Lyons ; James Neighbors ; Mildred ; Mills Chapel ; R.C. Lester ; Raymond Cecil ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School Bristow 1826 Pine Hill One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named—there wasn’t—there wasn’t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. Discussion about Pine Hill School Bill Flood ; Bruce ; Buela Hope ; Carl Sparks ; Eva Smith ; Glendale ; Iron Post ; J.L. Darnell ; Lenora ; Louis Harding ; Mildred Henderson ; Mills Chapel School ; Oak Grove School ; Pine Hill ; Raymond Cecil ; Roy Bath ; Shady Glen ; Victor Chapel School ; Wanda Henderson Pine Hill School 2302 Love Stories You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked—I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool—the only one I fooled was Lenora. J.L. tells stories of his teen years Brick Central ; Edith ; Eva Smith ; James King ; Juanita ; Lenora ; pie supper ; Thelma love stories 2718 Comments from the Crowd and Closing We’re proud you came here. It’s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your—I hope you—you’ve enjoyed it. I—if you didn’t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Comments from the crowd and closing with a prayer Charlie Womack ; Flora ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glendale ; Hard Shell Baptist ; Ledgerwood ; Marie Womack ; Mildred ; Morningstar ; Mountain Home ; Oak Grove ; Old Man Higgenbottom Darnell ; schools ; Womack WN: -ninety-six. I&#039 ; m Wanda Newton. I&#039 ; m in the basement of the Christian Church where they are having a fellowship breakfast. JL Darnell will be the speaker today, and he&#039 ; s going to talk about early schools in Oklahoma. JL was the last Creek County Superintendent of Schools. He&#039 ; s also a former teacher. (indistinct group chatter in background) JL: Hi. I--it was my time to make this talk at the church, you know. I don&#039 ; t know much about the Bible, but I do know a little bit about the school since I was in the business thirty-seven years. You know, prior to 1907, the year that Oklahoma became a state, we had no public schools. The territorial government didn&#039 ; t provide for it. If you had schools, it was a subscription school. And you--each parent had to pay to the--some teacher that wanted to, to teach the children so much a month. The only man that I know that went to subscription school was Raymond Freeland (ph). And--down in Tahlequah. Unidentified Man: You&#039 ; ll be telling how old I am, now. JL: The first legislat--the, the--when Oklahoma became a state, they had--first they had to have a Constitutional Convention. And that Constitutional Convention mandated that every county in the state of Oklahoma had school districts. And the first legislature that they--was formed in 1908--drew up the plans. The super--the process of setting up the school districts was in the hands of the county superintendent. Now, I wasn&#039 ; t county superintendent then. (laughing) But there was a fellow from Bristow that was the first county superintendent, and his name was P.T. Frye. I didn&#039 ; t know him, but I knew his daughter in Sapulpa. She worked in the abstract office, and she&#039 ; d come by to see me every once in a while. And when she was a little girl, she went with her daddy--the county superintendent--all over the county in a buggy! Because they didn&#039 ; t have any roads to speak of. And nobody had a car--any cars in that day. So he&#039 ; d--P.T. Frye began to work in 1908. And he had to make the nine-hundred-and-sixty or --seventy square miles of Creek County into school districts. And he and the second county--well he didn&#039 ; t get it all done. But he and the second county superintendent--a fellow by the name of Jeff Burgess (ph)--finished the job. And they organized Creek County into seventy-nine school districts. Now, the school districts then had to be relatively small. Everybody walked to school. There were no roads. So most of the school districts were about three miles north and south, and about four miles east and west. And they tried to get the school as near as possible in the center of the district. If they had quite a few kids, they&#039 ; d build a school on one side or other of the district, and another school on the other side of the district. And, as I said while ago, by 1910 or &#039 ; 15, all seventy-nine school districts had been formed, and they started having board meetings, selecting teachers, and school started! Most of you don&#039 ; t know much about a one-room school. And most of these little schools that first started were one-room schools. It was a frame building, usually about twenty by forty, or eighteen by thirty-five. They had no lights in the school whatsoever. There wasn&#039 ; t even electricity out in the country. They--it was heated by a big stove in the middle or on the corner of the room with wood. It had a big hood around it so that the heat would circulate. The teacher had to get there real early and build a fire. The teacher was not only the teacher, but she was--she or he was the janitor. And the fireman, and everything. So it was quite a little task for the teacher. But everybody--we, we got enough teachers that we eventually filled up all the vacancies. They organized--you know how a board of education--as soon as the--as soon as the county superintendent got the district organized, then they had an election. And they selected--they elected three board members: a director, a clerk, and a member. And they sure didn&#039 ; t hold elections like we do today. They&#039 ; d--they&#039 ; d post five notices in the district that they&#039 ; s gonna have this board meeting from two until four. And the people all gathered in, and if you wanted to run for board member, you had somebody nominate you. And then they&#039 ; d nominate as many as they wanted, and they wrote their names on the blackboard and then give everybody a little slip of paper. And they selected the man that they wanted to be on the board. The one-room schools--the teacher--where the teacher&#039 ; s desk was, was a little bit elevated so she could look over and see what the kids is doing because it was quite a job teaching fifteen or twenty or thirty kids, all eight grades. Not many of you experienced that. But maybe Dillard and me and some of you others did. All right, now. One of the things that they voted on--after you voted for the board members, you voted the millage. Which was used to conduct the school. And you voted whether or not to have a school for six months or nine months or five months. You know, the little old districts didn&#039 ; t--didn&#039 ; t--they tried to make the districts in such a way that they would have a valuation of $100,000 or so, so that&#039 ; d be enough money to pay the teacher because the teacher didn&#039 ; t get but about $40 or $50 a month. And they also--when they organized the school districts, they used actual ground [indecipherable]. Creeks that flooded in the springtime--there&#039 ; s no bridges over them. And the kids couldn&#039 ; t get to school. The boundary between Bristow school district and my old school district out south of town was called Forty-Eight--old school district Forty-Eight--the boundary between us was Little Deep Fork. And the boundary between Genelle school south of--way in the south part of the county--and Mills Chapel--not Mills Chapel, but Iron Post--was Big Deep Fork. So when those things had--had a bearing on the size of the school district. They had to--to begin with, they had a lot of difficulty finding teachers. No teachers back in those days--or very few of &#039 ; em--had college degrees. They didn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t go to college. So what they did, they--they sent the--the county superintendent sent the notice out that anybody that wanted to come to Sapulpa and take a little short course in the summertime on subjects and teaching and how to teach a school could do so. And you didn&#039 ; t--if you--the only qualifications were that you had to have finished the eighth grade. And--or high school. You went up to the county superintendent&#039 ; s office and he conducted a class up there for six weeks and then he gave you an examination. And if you passed the examination, you were issued a one-year county certificate. If you done real good, they might give you a two-year county certificate. And then you could teach in the county for that length of time, but then you had to go back to school in the summer in the county superintendent&#039 ; s office. Or you had to go to--by that time they had the teacher&#039 ; s colleges. And of course then you had to go the teacher&#039 ; s colleges in the summertime until you worked out so many hours. If you worked out sixty hours of college work, they gave you a life certificate, and you could teach school the rest of your life without going back to school. Now you can&#039 ; t teach school unless you have four years of college. But back in the day--in those days, we had to make it easy. Now don&#039 ; t think them little--them old schoolteachers were not good. The best schoolteacher I ever saw was an old man named Frank Burgess (ph). He taught school way up in the northern part of the county at McAboy (ph). He had about twenty of them old kids in there. He--he (laughs). He&#039 ; d--he kinda had the school as a whole. He had--when he&#039 ; d teach in sixth grade arithmetic, everybody learnt sixth grade arithmetic. And them third and fourth graders could do it! Raymond remembers old Frank Burgess (ph), Frank Burgess (ph). His brother was Jeff Burgess (ph), I mentioned him while ago--he was the early county superintendent. Let&#039 ; s see. The school districts run along pretty good until they discovered oil in Creek County. And when they discovered oil in Creek County, the population just doubled and tripled because back in those days--you old timers know--that the oilfield workers worked right out in the--lived right out in the district. They, they established camps. Oilfield camps. And when that happened, the--the population increased and they had to expand these little one-room schools. And that also brought about a lot of consolidation. One of--all of you know where Gypsy school is. Well, Gypsy and--before 1920 or &#039 ; 21, there wasn&#039 ; t a Gypsy school. There wasn&#039 ; t a Milfay school. There--there wasn&#039 ; t-- Unidentified Man: Olive. JD: Olive school. And several other places. There were no--there were no schools. But when they got the oil and the population increased, then that started what we call school consolidation. In Gypsy, they had two schools out there. One was called Lincoln, north of Gypsy. The other one was Lakeside, south of Gypsy. And they merged together in 1923 or &#039 ; 24, and formed Gypsy school district. And it became a high school. And the same thing happened at Raymond&#039 ; s place. Raymond went to school--he lived at Milfay when he walked to school a mile or two to a place--to a little place called-- Unidentified Man: Sunnyslope. JD: Sunnyslope. And Sunnyslope and the other little school that-- Unidentified Man: Lily Day. JD: --next to Milfay joined together and formed Milfay, and then they became--it became a high school. Same thing happened in Olive. The same thing happened in Welmont (ph) when they discovered the No. 1 Wheeler oil well in 1912. Drumright was--had two--two or three little old grade schools around there. One was called Dry Hill, one was called Tiger, and the other one I--Lily. No, not Lily Day. I can&#039 ; t remember the name of it. But when they discovered oil there, and the people just came in with the droves, and in just a little while, well, Drumright became a high school. And the same thing happened to Oilton. It was a little old school out south where Oilton is. It was called Crow. Had one teacher. And when they discovered oil in the--in the Oilton area, the population increased and so they just established a town called Oilton. And the teacher that taught at Crow went into Oilton as a first-grade teacher. I don&#039 ; t remember her name, but she taught at Oilton, then, until she retired. And she was--she was the boss, you know, of the school because she was the oldest and (chuckles). After school, let&#039 ; s see--I wanted to make time here. Oh, Slick! You know, when they discovered--before 1918 there wasn&#039 ; t a Slick school. The school was called Tabor. It was a little two-teacher school two miles north. And the teacher at that time was a guy named Dan Baker. Dillard&#039 ; s first cousin. And he and his wife were teaching there at Tabor, and they discovered the oilfield in [inaudible]. Ten thousand people moved into Slick inside of two or three to four years. And they had the--they built a school at Slick. And there&#039 ; s one little old boy that followed Tom Slick, the oilman. His name was Ace Borger. He was originally from Pitcher, Oklahoma. He was a promoter. Ace--now, the auditor, the guy he knew at--that audited schools--lived in Pitcher. And he told me that Ace Borger had a bank there, way back in 1910 or &#039 ; 15. And he had more money in that bank than any other bank because he let the outlaws put their money there and they didn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t have to account for it. Well, Ace Borger followed Tom Slick, and he organized the town of Slick. And helped them build the school, and everything. And then he got in trouble and they had a big lawsuit there and they run him off. And he went to Texas because they&#039 ; d just discovered a lot of oil and gas out north of Amarillo. And he organized the town--I mean, yeah--the town of Borger, Texas. And took Dan Baker out there as his superintendent. And Borger--I mean, Borger becomes a big town almost immediately. Well, anyway, old Ace Borger had a lot of enemies, and the only way they could get rid of him was to get somebody to shoot him, and they shot him on the--they shot him and killed him on the steps of the post office. And that got rid of Ace Borger! (chuckles) Here&#039 ; s something that a lot of you didn&#039 ; t know: when the oilfields came in, among the little schools, they started have--trying to have a high school. Because, you know, back in those days you couldn&#039 ; t get--well, they had no buses. And your kids had to walk to school. But the people out in the school district wanted their child to have as good of an education as possible. So they started having--organizing little high schools. They had a little high school at Valentine. They had another one at Iron Post. They had another one out here at my old school district--Forty-Eight, at the end of the airport. They had one in McClintock, south of Happy Corner. But they didn&#039 ; t last long. The state department made &#039 ; em close &#039 ; em down after two or three years. But they kept the grade school. Now, let&#039 ; s see, what else have I got to talk to you about. I told you that they organized seventy-nine school districts. Back when they started consolidating, the number--it was easy to consolidate. Most people wanted to have their kids in the [inaudible] schools and [inaudible] by that time, they began to have school buses. And so that done away with a lot of little schools. And then during the World War II, a whole bunch of little schools went out because they couldn&#039 ; t find teachers. So by 19--when I became county superintendent in 1951--got the notes, here, (papers rustling) if I can find it--by 1951, there were thirty-three school districts left in Creek County. It had reduced from seventy-nine down to thirty-three. There were fourteen high schools and nineteen grade schools. And when I retired in 1975, there were ten high schools and only six elementary schools. And since that time, one elementary school--Shamrock--has gone out. Shamrock, Slick, and all them little--they were boom towns. And they just grew and flourished during the oil business, but then they folded up as soon as the oil kind of depleted. Let&#039 ; s see. What else you might want to know about. I don&#039 ; t have much more time. I want to show you, now, some pictures. I---I don&#039 ; t--they&#039 ; re not very good [inaudible], but it&#039 ; s schools around Bristow that existed back in the &#039 ; 20s and &#039 ; 30s. And every one of those schools now is part of Bristow School District. You all may not realize it, but Bristow is the largest school district in the county. They have--I&#039 ; ve got it written down here somewhere (papers rustling). [Inaudible] be better organized. (chuckles) Bristow school district now is made up of the following schools--little rural schools: every part of Forty-Four--district Forty-Four. That was right out north of town--is now part of Bristow. Every part of that--that was down below Newby--became a part of Bristow. My old school--Oakgrove, Glendale, and Brick Central (ph)--most of it came to Bristow, but the west part of it went to Depew. Fisher School--where old John went to school--is now part Bristow. Of course, first it went into Slick, and then when Slick went out it came to Bristow. Fairview! Where old Dillard grew up. And I guess you went to school at Fairview. Fairview? Dillard Baker: Well, I was-- JD: Fairview was--Fairview was file miles south and two miles east and then about a mile south. Lovett! Which was about six miles west of Bristow and--east of Bristow. And I--I don&#039 ; t--I&#039 ; m not sure, but I think the most important man in Lovett school that lives in Bristow today is Dub Bolin! Is that right? (laughing) Another one was Edna. You know where Edna was--it&#039 ; s now part of Bristow. Cloud just east of Slick is part of Bristow. Sand Creek eleven miles south and a mile east is, is all Bristow. Union Hill (ph), which was out near--out on the Red Bank (ph) road to the north. Mills Chapel became part of Bristow in &#039 ; 46 or &#039 ; 47. Mills Chapel was three miles south and two--two miles west. Group, simultaneously: East. East. JD: Two miles--yeah. East. Mountain Home, and [indecipherable], was back east of Bristow. Tuskegee, where the Krummes came from, is all Bristow now. And of course, as I said while ago, Slick. Here are the schools that were divided: Pine Hill--the south part of Pine Hill went to Bristow, the east part went to Kellyville, and the north--and the north and the west part went to Olive. Iron Post went out in &#039 ; 54 or something like that, &#039 ; 55. Part of it went to Gypsy and the rest of it came to Bristow. Central Oak Grove and Glendale--that&#039 ; s my little school--as it went out, most of it went to Bristow, but part of it went to Depew. Wyatt--Wyatt was a little high school way back in the &#039 ; 20s, and they lost out on their high school, but they kept a grade school. And about &#039 ; 46 or &#039 ; 47, they got--&#039 ; 49, it was--they got so low in attendance that they divided it up and part of it went to Slick, part of it went to Kellyville, and part of it went to Bristow. Victor Chapel--nine miles north and a mile or two west was divided between Bristow and Olive. Newby school--all of you knew where Newby school was. Newby went out about &#039 ; 60 or &#039 ; 61, and part of it--most of it went to Bristow, but a little bit of it went to Gypsy. Genelle--which was three miles east of Brist--west of Bristow on Cemetery Road and back north a mile and then back west a little bit further. It was divided between Depew and Bristow. Bellvue was northwest of Bristow, and it was split two ways. Part of it went to Olive and part of it went to Bristow. In other words, Bristow is all, or part, of twenty-some school districts. And I graduated from Bristow High School in 1931. And they had no buses whatsoever. The kids out in the rural school had to get there on their own. They--the parents usually rented a place in town and they lived in--in an apartment and went to school, and when school was out they went back to home. But I--I came back from New Mexico in 1935 and Bristow had a whole bunch of school buses. Now Bristow has fifteen or sixteen school buses because it&#039 ; s got to go to all these areas where the--where the rural schools are. I want to talk to you now about some of the important people that are in Bristow now that lived in the rural areas. And then I&#039 ; ll show you some films on it. The first one I&#039 ; m going to talk about is Genelle. The most important man in Genelle way back yonder was Raymond Cecil. And he [indecipherable]--his dad worked in a--a gasoline plant out there. And Raymond got into trouble with old Shamblin (ph), the teacher, and he didn&#039 ; t like him. So his dad arranged for him to Bristow. And when Raymond got up here in Bristow, he fell in love with the prettiest little girl and she&#039 ; s here--(laughing)--she&#039 ; s here tonight [indecipherable]. Another school that I talked about while ago was Mills Chapel. And Dillard Baker is one of the important fellows that lived in Mills Chapel years and years ago. Another one was Dykes kids. All of you know Emmett Dykes and Jack Dykes and Mildred and Bernice. Bernice became a teacher and she was one of the finest. She taught many years at Iron Post. But then she met an old boy that swept her off of her feet and they went to California after he got out of the service. And both of &#039 ; em taught school out there. Let&#039 ; s see--oh, there was--there was another pretty little girl out at--at Mills Chapel. And when she got in high school she came to Bristow, and there was an old city slicker here in Bristow named James Lyons, and he just swept her off of her feet, and they married right--just before the war. (laughing) Unidentified man: She got that backwards. (laughing) JD: All of you know the Alcorns from Slick. They had a whole bunch of big old strong girls, and they had such a good girls&#039 ; team that they won every softball game they ever played. They even beat the boys down in Slick! You all know the Alcorns. Let&#039 ; s see another one here. Mountain Home out on the high--the Slick Road--I mean on the Eighth Street Road--they had a real fine school out there and the only boy that I remember that&#039 ; s here now was James Neighbors (ph). When he graduated the eighth grade he came here. Valentine--pretty little girl, what&#039 ; s her name? Eva Sanders. And old Jack Hancock pursued her and finally made her his wife. Shady Glen--which was, what? Six miles south of Depew and a mile west and then three more miles south, down on Big Deep Fork, was where Carl Sparks grew up. Now, I don&#039 ; t know where Carl found his sweetheart. (laughs) But he found himself one. I talked--I mentioned Victor Chapel School. Nine miles north on Highway 48 and then a mile and a half east--west. It was a real [indecipherable] school, and that&#039 ; s where the Lesters--R.C. Lester--he went. And her--[indecipherable]. They went to grade school and when they got through they came to Bristow High School. One school that I was especially proud of was about eight miles north of Bristow and a mile east, and it was called Pine Hill. It was named--there wasn&#039 ; t--there wasn&#039 ; t any pine trees out there, but there was an Indian named Pine Hill. And it was named after him. And there&#039 ; s a whole bunch of people out there named Bruce. And they all went to school at Pine Hill--even there, my sister-in-law went to school at Pine Hill. But the most important person in Pine Hill graduated out there in 1940--no, in &#039 ; 37. And she lived--she had to walk a mile to catch the bus up through the woods. And she--for four years she walked up there and caught the bus, rain and shine, and she&#039 ; s right [inaudible--poor tape quality]. [Inaduible--poor tape quality] I&#039 ; m running out of time here, I don&#039 ; t want to [inaudible]. I know you want to see some of these pictures. So at this time I&#039 ; m gonna try to put &#039 ; em through this machine and [inaudible--poor tape quality]. I&#039 ; ll talk a little bit as they come right through. Flip the light off, preacher. That&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s the front--that&#039 ; s the front door of Genelle school. Raymond Cecil [indecipherable]--I&#039 ; ll pass them around if you want to look at &#039 ; em. Let&#039 ; s see here. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: That&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Mills Chapel School. And the teacherage. That&#039 ; s the biggest picture we could find--Majel had that and gave it to us so we could show it to you. (talking and murmuring in background) JD: [inaudible] That&#039 ; s-- Unidentified Man: Iron Post! JD: Victor Chapel School. Off to the left--in the middle row, you can&#039 ; t see it very good. Right behind is--is Lenora. She went there one year. Now you all--you probably know the teacher. Her name was Buela Hope. And she married a guy named--out in there named Earl--I mean, Roy Bath. And they were the ones that were murdered about 1974 or &#039 ; 75. They never found who--who murdered them. Now that&#039 ; s a picture of Louis Harding&#039 ; s school. You can&#039 ; t tell, but he&#039 ; s right down there on the front row. And that&#039 ; s Iron Post. And Louis thought it was about 1930 or &#039 ; 35, I don&#039 ; t know. But--but anyway, that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Iron Post. Now there&#039 ; s a picture where Lenora and me went to school. That&#039 ; s Pine Hill. And there&#039 ; s a bunch of kids out in the yard, but I--it&#039 ; s not plain enough that you can see who they are. Pine Hill. Now, let&#039 ; s see. Now that&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s where Carl Sparks came from. Shady Glen. The one farthest south, just north of Big Deep Fork and south of Salt Creek. And I--Carl&#039 ; s in there somewhere but I don&#039 ; t--I couldn&#039 ; t--I couldn&#039 ; t recognize him. But I appreciate you bringing the picture, Carl, so we could see it. Shady Glen became part of Gypsy, and then later they--it became part of Milfay. They switched around. Now, that&#039 ; s old Glendale school. File miles west and a mile south on the Gypsy Road. And that little bitty guy in the middle on the front row happens to be old J.L. Darnell. (laughing) And right behind him is his first sweetheart--Eva Smith. And you probably wouldn&#039 ; t--my brother&#039 ; s over on the left side and you wouldn&#039 ; t recognize him. But Glendale was a nice school and it became--it really grew during the--during the oil boom. Now that--that&#039 ; s Oak Grove School in 1939. That was the second year I taught. That&#039 ; s me on the left there, and that&#039 ; s all my kids. In that is a little girl named Wanda Henderson. I had her in the third through the seventh grade. But one--but--Glen--I mean, Oak Grove School was a very good school through the years. Lyman Hutchins--Raymond&#039 ; s dad--went there, and Lyman--Raymond told me that he--his dad got seven whippings in one day. The most important person, though, in old--old Glend--old Oak Grove School was a gal that Bill Flood really fell for. And she&#039 ; s here tonight, and Bill is proud of her, I&#039 ; m sure, and she&#039 ; s proud of Bill. Her name was Mildred Henderson. So that&#039 ; s Bill&#039 ; s--that&#039 ; s Bill&#039 ; s sweetheart. I think that&#039 ; s about all the pictures we have. Turn the--turn the light on, now. (rustling) Unidentified woman: Did you want to show this one right here? JD: [Inaudible in background.] You know, to get a good crowd out, I asked--I told the women in our church that I would tell something about my love affairs. You know, I was thirty-seven years old, almost, before I got married. But I had a few girlfriends, and it took a long, long time to fool--the only one I fooled was Lenora. But when I went to school at Glendale--started there in 1919. My classmate was Eva Smith. And I drew her name at Christmas. You know, we drew names and exchanged gifts. And I drew Eva&#039 ; s name and I had to buy her something. Well, my mother helped me out. In those days, you bought flour in a twenty-five-, fifty-pound sack. And it had a design on it. Well, this one had a design of a, of a--of a little old red--I mean, red dots. And my mother cut that out, 1919--Christmas of 1919, and stuffed it, and I put it on the tree for Eva Smith. And she was just tickled to death. Now, how did I get it back? Well, Eva in the mean time went to Sapulpa, and she became principal of a big school out there, even though she had taught a lot in just little country schools. And one day she called Lenora and said, Lenora--this is forty years later--she called Lenora and said, Lenora, you and J.L. and your oldest daughter--I don&#039 ; t know whether Marie--might not have been born, I guess she was. But said, Come over, I want to give Ed--Edith something. And we went over there and Edna said, I want to give this to your oldest daughter. So I&#039 ; m gonna pass it around, you might want to look at it. (laughs) Two other loves stories. We left old Glendale in 1923 and went to California and stayed a little while and came back and I made the fourth and part of the fifth grade in Bristow. And then in January of 1925, we moved back to Glendale. I was only twelve years old, and I was in the fifth grade, but there was the cutest little old girl that had moved in. Her daddy was an oilfield worker. And she had little pretty blonde hair, pretty little old doll face, and freckles. And we became sweethearts. We played together at recess--Black Man (ph). Well one--she lived west of school and I lived east of school. And so one afternoon, after four o&#039 ; clock, she started going our way when she should&#039 ; ve gone the other way. And I said--her name was Juanita. And I said, Juanita, what are you doing going this way? She said, I want to go home and stay all night with ya. (laughing) (crowd laughing) Well, that took me--I didn&#039 ; t know what to say to her! It was just three of us old boys, my dad and mother, we just had two bedrooms. Me and my three brothers all slept togeth--I said, What in the world would we do with her? And I begin to try to figure out some way to get her to change her mind. I said, Juanita, does your dad and mother know that you&#039 ; re gonna go home and stay all night with me? She said, Nooo, I didn&#039 ; t tell &#039 ; em! And I said, Well, you better go home and get permission first! (laughing) Well, she went home and--and--I--she never did come back and stay all night with me. (laughing) One more love story and then we&#039 ; ll be gone. I--I went to New Mexico in 1929. And stayed out there for two or three years. I came back to Bristow to finish high school. Well, one--either in &#039 ; 29 or &#039 ; 30, I went back out to old Brick Central (ph)--you know, we had a pie supper every year. And I went into this--to see my old friend. And boy, there was the prettiest little girl there. She was about fourteen--I was fifteen or sixteen. And she was fourteen. Well, I&#039 ; d known her when she was a little bitty old thing, three or four years before. But boy, she sure looked good to me that night! She had filled out. So I got to--in those days, if you bought their pie, you got to walk &#039 ; em home. So I said, Well, I&#039 ; m gonna see to it that I get to walk her home. So I--her name was Thelma. I said, Thelma, did you bring a box, or a pie? And she said, Yeah. And she said, Now if you&#039 ; ll watch me, I&#039 ; ll tell you when the auctioneer brings it up. Well, she nodded--she gave me the nod, and I bought it. And I gave seventy-five cents for it--which was quite a bit of money, you known, down in the Depression. Boy, I said, I&#039 ; ve got it all made now, I get to eat and then I&#039 ; m&#039 ; a get to walk her home, and put my arm around her, to hold her hand. But I found out before the thing was over that she had another admirer there in school. And his name was James King. And he came to me, and he said, James--J.L., did you buy Thelma&#039 ; s pie? And I said, Yeah. He said, I&#039 ; ll give you your money back. I said, Nooo----I don&#039 ; t want that money back. He said, I&#039 ; ll give you a dollar! Nooo. Finally, he said, I&#039 ; ll give you a dollar and a half, and boy, listen--that got me. I--(laughs) I--he gave me a dollar and a half and I gave him the ticket. And at the end of the pie supper, he went up and got her pie--got her box, and brought it back to where she was, and she got so mad, she wouldn&#039 ; t eat with him! And she wouldn&#039 ; t speak to me! And I didn&#039 ; t get to walk her home. So--so I found out that--that romance and profit-making don&#039 ; t always go together. (laughs) We&#039 ; re proud you came here. It&#039 ; s thirteen minutes past. And I hope your--I hope you--you&#039 ; ve enjoyed it. I--if you didn&#039 ; t like what I had to say, maybe the meal was worthwhile. Anybody have any comments they want to make? Unidentified woman: It was very good. Unidentified man: I had a comment about that pie supper-- (applause) Unidentified man: --about that pie supper-- JD: It&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s early--I mean late. And I might just say this: one of the--one of the results of mine and Lenora&#039 ; s getting married is that little girl that&#039 ; s sitting way back there on the--black-headed, and that&#039 ; s her husband there, Charlie, Charlie Womack. Unidentified woman: [Inaudible] JD: If there&#039 ; s no other comments-- Unidentified man: J.L.-- JD: Raymond--I mean-- Unidentified man: That pie supper is where I met this gal. JD: Well! (laughs) Unidentified man: I bought her pie and she introduced me to her fiancé. JD: Ohh! (laughs) Unidentified man: And he--and I think he&#039 ; s that same old guy that advertised for Braum&#039 ; s, you know--Vic (ph), or whatever his name was. What was his name? JD: (laughs) Unidentified man: Anyhow, I--I&#039 ; ve been eating her sandwiches ever since. And one school we forgot to mention, he did that&#039 ; s--back in eastern Oklahoma, if you came from that part of the country, they always kidded you if you came from Scratchout--was the name of the school! We got a gal in here from Scratchout. I&#039 ; m not gonna tell you who she is, but--she can talk Indian if you want to talk to her. John&#039 ; s wife. JD: Let me make one other observation, here, before you leave. After all, we ought to be--this is a church, and we should be--what I should be--is sayin&#039 ; something that would build up the churches. In my old school, Glendale, and Mildred&#039 ; s and Flora&#039 ; s old school, Oak Grove, they are the forerunners of the Free--of the Freewill Baptist Church. Way back in 1921 or &#039 ; 22 we had a preacher who lived across the road named Sam Wall. And he--he had church every day at Glendale. And the song leader was Old Man Higgenbottom. H.A. Had one eye, if you remember. And he was a good one. And they had church there. And they were Freewill Baptists--only I think they called them Hard Shell (ph) Baptist back in those days. Now in--in Glendale--I mean in Oak Grove, we had another Baptist preacher. His name was Ledgerwood. And he was--he and old Sam Wall were the forerunners of the Freewill Baptist. Later they moved to Bristow and you know where the Freewill--that&#039 ; s where they are, and here&#039 ; s where all of &#039 ; em go to school. Any other comments before you go home? Jack! Unidentified man: J.L., did you say anything about Model on 16? You ever go down there? JD: Yeah. Unidentified man: East about three miles, wasn&#039 ; t it, then north about a quarter of a mile? JD: Yeah. Well, Model-- Unidentified man: Mountain. JD: Mountain Home--Mountain Home and Model were in the same school district. When they got a lot of oil out there, they didn&#039 ; t--they couldn&#039 ; t--they didn&#039 ; t have enough. And that&#039 ; s where you met your wife, wasn&#039 ; t it? Unidentified woman: [Inaudible.] Unidentified man: I don&#039 ; t know if you remember or not, but we had quite a few black schools. Iron Post was on one corner, and a mile west was another school--Morningstar or something like that was the name of it--and by gosh, they had twice as many kids over in that black school as we did [indecipherable]. And--but anyway, I remember bunch of little schools that some of us have forgotten about. Seven miles south at the Iron Post sign, right there on the corner you&#039 ; ll see--still see the water well that&#039 ; s the old-- JD: Maybe the next time I get to talk, maybe I&#039 ; ll talk to you about the colored schools. Well I had the one that was the awfulest one. We done away with it! You might not want to hear about that. (laughing) (crowd discussion) JD: If there&#039 ; s no other comments, let&#039 ; s stand up and [inaudible]. Unidentified man: Let us pray. Lord, dismiss us with your blessing that we may go forth and do your work. Be with each one here and their families and bless them in their lives to serve thee. In Christ our Lord. Crowd: Amen. [end of recording] 1 audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml OHP2-0002_Jesse_Darnell_xml.xml Sort Priority This field should be added if you are using the Philly Theme with your OHMS Plugin Suite. Consult the Philly Theme User Guide for details. 2800 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesse "J.L." Darnell Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OHP2-0002 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio