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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/6bf8300b686191fa60cf16f6e48255eb.jpg
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Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
George Krumme
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml
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5.4 Unknown OHP-0027-01 George Krumme OHP-0027-01 0:00-14:38 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. George Krumme MP3 1:|51(9)|63(9)|75(9)|87(11)|101(13)|116(3)|129(1)|142(3)|155(11)|169(13)|183(14)|196(10)|209(5)|222(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0027-01 Krumme, George.mp3 Other audio 0 The Woodland Queen GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In the 1920’s, local boosters called Bristow the ‘Woodland Queen’, where oil flows and cotton grows. Nowadays, you would have to leave the county to find the cotton field, and flowing oil wells are mostly a thing of the past. The first big well drilled near Bristow was drilled by a continental petroleum company, composed mostly of Bristow investors led by A.A Rollstone and Claud Freeland. In October, 1921, continental completed its number one well on the Dunlap farm two miles east of town for sixteen hundred barrels a day in the Dutcher sand. Within a few months, continental sold out for five million dollars. The pool steadily expanded until it reached the very edge of Bristow. A virtual forest of derricks covered the eastern skyline of Bristow by the mid 20’s. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment of about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow A.A. Rollstone ; Claud Freeland ; Dunlap Farm ; George Krumme ; Woodland Queen 78 Bristow Poor Farm GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Before old age assistance and cover social services were made available by the state of Oklahoma, counties were authorized to establish central residences for poor and aging citizens who had no family to take care of them. They were called Poor Farms because they were located on enough land to allow the residents to raise livestock and plant a garden. Our county Poor Farm was located on a hundred and eighty-acre track about two miles southwest of Bristow. In 1920, Homer Wilcox discovered oil just east of the Poor Farm and wells were subsequently drilled on the farm by Wilcox Oil and Gas. He best well was completed at twenty-eight hundred barrels per day ; the pool was formerly named ‘The Poor Farm Pool’, and the creek county Poor Farm was declared to be the richest poor farm in the world. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil days in Bristow. George Krumme ; Homer Wilcox ; Poor Farm ; The Poor Farm Pool ; Wilcox Oil and Gas 149 Strange Curve in Highway 66 GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. About two miles west of Bristow on Highway 66, there is an inexplicable kink in the pavement about a half mile west of Kelly Lake and just before you get to the country poor Farm cemetery. Nowadays, there seems to be no reason for this bend in the road, and it turns back westward in the next hundred yards or so. But in 1926, when Highway 66 was built and for several decades thereafter, the reason for the double bend was obvious ; a couple of years before the road was constructed, Wilcox Oil and Gas Company had drilled their number two Harjo Well. If the road had not been deviated slightly, it would’ve run almost into the standard rig, which was pumping the well. So the road zigged just enough to zag around the well, which has long since been plugged. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow George Krumme ; Highway 66 ; Kelly Lake ; Poor Farm ; Wilcox Oil and Gas 219 Tom Slick and Slick, Oklahoma GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Most people, including the writers of some Oklahoma histories presume that a new town platted in 1920 was named Slick because Tom Slick had discovered oil near the town side. Actually, Tom Slick had no part in the discovery of the pool. Here’s how the town was named: Slick had made a lot of money after it had discovered oil at the Cushing pool, he was married to the daughter of J.A. Freitas (ph), who was a professional real estate developer. Freitas convinced his son-in-law to put up much of the money to construct a railroad from Bristow to New [Indecipherable], with the intention of eventually extending the line to Okmulgee. Part of the promotion was to found a town side on the railroad ten miles east of Bristow and that town was named from the man who furnished the money, so the town was named Slick and the oil pool, which had already been discovered, took its name from the town side instead of the other way around. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow George Krumme ; J.A. Freitas ; Slick, Oklahoma ; Tom Slick 289 Roland Oil Company GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1912, Frank Barns promoted a well on the earnest Alex, east three miles southwest of Bristow. The well was dry at 28,084ft and the oil lease expired. Eight years later, A.A. Rollstone took the new lease on the Alex farm. Rollstone had just formed a new company with Claud Freeland, which they called ‘The Roland Oil Company’. The Roland Hotel, Roland Creek, and the Roland addition are also named after Rollstone and Freeland. Roland stated [Indecipherable] well Alex, near the old dry hole and struck prolific production in Dutcher sand about two hundred feet deeper than the Frank Barns duster had been drilled. Their number one Alex was the second biggest well ever completed in Creek County, so I guess the lesson to be learned is never give your well up as a dry hole until you drill is 200ft deeper. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. A.A. Rollstone ; Claud Freeland ; Creek County ; Frank Barns ; George Krumme ; Roland Creek ; Roland Hotel ; Roland Oil Company 354 Wilcox Oil Company GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1924, Homer Wilcox staked a Wildcat on a block of acreage around the Sac and Fox Indian Reservation South of Stroud. Wilcox got a dry hole in the deep sands, completed three wells, and a shallower sand. Nice little poo sand wells, but nothing to get excited about. So Wilcox allowed all the other leases he had taken in the area to expire and drill. It was ten years before Wilcox noticed they the three wells had refused to decline like wells normally do, which indicated that the poo reservoir was much better than he had believed. Wilcox quietly bean began leasing again [Indecipherable] drop ten years before. After assembling a size of a block, Wilcox began drilling poo sand wells. He eventually completed more than 100 producers with almost no dry holes. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. Homer Wilcox ; Sac and Fox Indian Reservation ; Wilcox Oil Company 420 Chester Cushing Bristow Adventure GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. Almost all of the early wells around Bristow were drilled with cable tools and at one time, there were hundreds of wooden Derrek’s standing in our vicinity. I know of only one standard wooden Derrek erected anywhere after 1940 and it wasn’t Bill Ryan Oil company, this was by Chester Cushing, a Bristow man who was running what was left of the Tim Cushing tools and supply. In 1944, he decided to drill a wildcat well just south of Bristow, across from South Ridge on the west side of highway 48. Chester pieced together nan authentic standard rig, bull wheels, walking beams, steam engines bordering all of the trimmings. Chester didn’t have much money, so he drilled the well himself. His wife Ann was his tool [Indecipherable]. They struggled about four years off and on and finally gave up. But as they say, easy come easy go. However, they should’ve received some personal satisfaction in knowing that they had possible drilled the last well to ever drill with a standard rig. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Bill Ryan Oil Company ; Chester Cushing ; Chester Cushing Bristow Adventure ; George Krumme ; Tim Cushing Tools and Supply 490 How Oil Barrels Became 42 Gallons GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. If you bought a barrel of crude oil, would you get 55-gallons? Most people think so because they remember the 55-gallon drum in which the motor oil is sold. In reality, a barrel of crude oil means 42-gallons. In the early days of the industry, crude oil was actually shipped in wooden barrels, a standard barrel was supposed to contain 40-gallons, but exact measurement was difficult and a 5% variation in the contents of a barrel was allowed. 5% of 40-gallons is 2-gallons, so if a barrel contained between 38 and 42 gallons, it was acceptable. As pipelines and tank cars replaced barrels for the transportation of crude, the need for a 5% variation disappeared but the custom of the purchaser getting 42-gallons in each barrel did not. So a barrel of crude oil was officially declared to mean 42-gallons and it still does. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. 42 gallons ; 55-gallon ; crude oil ; George Krumme 557 How Barrel Became BBL GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. The abbreviation for barrel should include only one ‘B’, yet the standard abbreviation for barrel in the oil industry is BBL, and there’s a historical reason for this oddity. In the early days in the industry in Pennsylvania, all the crude oil was shipped in wooden barrels. Naturally, the capacity of any individual barrel varied according to the scale of the [Indecipherable] who made it. It was soon noticed that the barrels furnished by the firm run by a certain John D. Rockefeller were consistently good barrels. In order to easily identify his barrel, Rockefeller had them all painted blue. The blue barrel became the standard used in the field and reference was common and made to so many blue barrels in the measurement of crude. The abbreviation of Blue Barrel became ‘BBL” and this abbreviation is still used industrywide to this day. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. BBL ; Blue Barrel ; George Krumme ; John D. Rockefeller 625 Charlie Tibbons GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1920, Charlie Tibbons drilled three shallow gas wells on the [Indecipherable] allotment 5 miles south of Bristow. There were good gas wells, but he found the real bonanza when he drilled in the deeper Dutcher sand. The number four [Indecipherable] made 90 barrels an hour. [Indecipherable] was a full blood [Indecipherable] engine and still owned the land on which the discovery was made. Her granddaughter and only living heir is [Indecipherable] Tiger Fry, who lives on a ranch about 10 miles east of Bristow. Eventually, more than 40 wells were drilled on the 160-acre allotment. More than one gathering company laid pipelines with the [Indecipherable] tank battery. Years ago, punk Corey told me that Tibbons daily production was so important, that every morning Tibbons would have representatives of the pipeline companies appear in his office to bid against one another, with the highest bidder being allowed to buy all that days production. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Charlie Tibbons ; George Krumme ; Tibbons Daily Production 694 The Roland Gusher GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. When Rolland Oil Company staked its number one Alex in January of 1922, as a long step out from the new Poor Farm pool, they naturally hoped for a good Detrol oil well. They’d get a lot more than what they bargained for. When the oil sand was struck, the gas blew the string of cable tools up the hole, and somehow the tools became lodged near the top of the casing. The drillers ran in a string of fishing tools which they promptly lost in the hole. Soon, the well began flowing oil. At 1:30 in the morning, they turned the well into the only tank on the location. The well filled the five-hundred-barrel tank in the first hour with both string of tools still in the hole. With great difficulty, the drillers shut the well in and Rolland began erecting more tankage and building earth and dams with horse draws slips and scrapers. The daily Oklahoma reported that the well was making 12 thousand barrels a day through a small crack in the six inch of valve with two strings of tools still in the hole. The Bristow record declared that the Alex was the best well in the state, and that 23-year-old Eugene Clifford Alex, the [Indecipherable], had just bought himself a Packard twin six with his royalties. But Rolland wanted the tools out before they caused trouble that might lead to chunking the hole. They decided that the flow was so strong that it might blow the fishing tools out of the hole if the well were allowed to flow wide open. So one morning, a week or so later, they opened the control head and allowed the stream to flow unchecked straight up through the wooden Derrek. Sure enough, shortly afterwards, they heard a bloops at the control head and saw a thousand pounds of steal fly up the Derrek and fall back to the rig flower. Much pleased, they quickly rotated the control head to divert the flow back into the tanks. What they didn’t anticipate was that the heavy flow had also dislodge the drilling string, which they had lost in the hole, and that it was following the fishing tools. The half-ton of drilling tools hit the control head with such momentum that it broke the head into pieces. The well was then flowing wild, completely out of control, spraying oil over a mile straight to the north, and speckling houses all the way into Bristow three miles away. Working in slickers and praying that the oil would not catch fire, within six to eight hours, the crew succeeded in screwing on a new control head and the well was under control again. The Bristow record reported that the wild well had furnished more excitement per square inch than anything else ever known in Bristow or anywhere else. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Eugene Clifford Alex ; George Krumme ; Poor Farm ; Roland Gusher ; Roland Oil Company The following programs recorded in 1998 by George Krumme, a longtime Bristow oilman. In the following programs, George Krumme discusses the early oil industry in Bristow. Interviewer: George Krumme Interviewee: Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0013 Side B at 00:00 to 14:38 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In the 1920' ; s, local boosters called Bristow the ' ; Woodland Queen' ; , where oil flows and cotton grows. Nowadays, you would have to leave the county to find the cotton field, and flowing oil wells are mostly a thing of the past. The first big well drilled near Bristow was drilled by a continental petroleum company, composed mostly of Bristow investors led by A.A Rollstone and Claud Freeland. In October, 1921, continental completed its number one well on the Dunlap farm two miles east of town for sixteen hundred barrels a day in the Dutcher sand. Within a few months, continental sold out for five million dollars. The pool steadily expanded until it reached the very edge of Bristow. A virtual forest of derricks covered the eastern skyline of Bristow by the mid 20' ; s. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment of about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Before old age assistance and cover social services were made available by the state of Oklahoma, counties were authorized to establish central residences for poor and aging citizens who had no family to take care of them. They were called Poor Farms because they were located on enough land to allow the residents to raise livestock and plant a garden. Our county Poor Farm was located on a hundred and eighty-acre track about two miles southwest of Bristow. In 1920, Homer Wilcox discovered oil just east of the Poor Farm and wells were subsequently drilled on the farm by Wilcox Oil and Gas. He best well was completed at twenty-eight hundred barrels per day ; the pool was formerly named ' ; The Poor Farm Pool' ; , and the creek county Poor Farm was declared to be the richest poor farm in the world. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil days in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. About two miles west of Bristow on Highway 66, there is an inexplicable kink in the pavement about a half mile west of Kelly Lake and just before you get to the country poor Farm cemetery. Nowadays, there seems to be no reason for this bend in the road, and it turns back westward in the next hundred yards or so. But in 1926, when Highway 66 was built and for several decades thereafter, the reason for the double bend was obvious ; a couple of years before the road was constructed, Wilcox Oil and Gas Company had drilled their number two Harjo Well. If the road had not been deviated slightly, it would' ; ve run almost into the standard rig, which was pumping the well. So the road zigged just enough to zag around the well, which has long since been plugged. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. Most people, including the writers of some Oklahoma histories presume that a new town platted in 1920 was named Slick because Tom Slick had discovered oil near the town side. Actually, Tom Slick had no part in the discovery of the pool. Here' ; s how the town was named: Slick had made a lot of money after it had discovered oil at the Cushing pool, he was married to the daughter of J.A. Freitas (ph), who was a professional real estate developer. Freitas convinced his son-in-law to put up much of the money to construct a railroad from Bristow to New [Indecipherable], with the intention of eventually extending the line to Okmulgee. Part of the promotion was to found a town side on the railroad ten miles east of Bristow and that town was named from the man who furnished the money, so the town was named Slick and the oil pool, which had already been discovered, took its name from the town side instead of the other way around. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1912, Frank Barns promoted a well on the earnest Alex, east three miles southwest of Bristow. The well was dry at 28,084ft and the oil lease expired. Eight years later, A.A. Rollstone took the new lease on the Alex farm. Rollstone had just formed a new company with Claud Freeland, which they called ' ; The Roland Oil Company' ; . The Roland Hotel, Rolland Creek, and the Roland addition are also named after Rollstone and Freeland. Roland stated [Indecipherable] well Alex, near the old dry hole and struck prolific production in Dutcher sand about two hundred feet deeper than the Frank Barns duster had been drilled. Their number one Alex was the second biggest well ever completed in Creek County, so I guess the lesson to be learned is never give your well up as a dry hole until you drill is 200ft deeper. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1924, Homer Wilcox staked a Wildcat on a block of acreage around the Sac and Fox Indian Reservation South of Stroud. Wilcox got a dry hole in the deep sands, completed three wells, and a shallower sand. Nice little poo sand wells, but nothing to get excited about. So Wilcox allowed all the other leases he had taken in the area to expire and drill. It was ten years before Wilcox noticed they the three wells had refused to decline like wells normally do, which indicated that the poo reservoir was much better than he had believed. Wilcox quietly bean began leasing again [Indecipherable] drop ten years before. After assembling a size of a block, Wilcox began drilling poo sand wells. He eventually completed more than 100 producers with almost no dry holes. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in the city of Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. Almost all of the early wells around Bristow were drilled with cable tools and at one time, there were hundreds of wooden Derrek' ; s standing in our vicinity. I know of only one standard wooden Derrek erected anywhere after 1940 and it wasn' ; t Bill Ryan Oil company, this was by Chester Cushing, a Bristow man who was running what was left of the Tim Cushing tools and supply. In 1944, he decided to drill a wildcat well just south of Bristow, across from South Ridge on the west side of highway 48. Chester pieced together nan authentic standard rig, bull wheels, walking beams, steam engines bordering all of the trimmings. Chester didn' ; t have much money, so he drilled the well himself. His wife Ann was his tool [Indecipherable]. They struggled about four years off and on and finally gave up. But as they say, easy come easy go. However, they should' ; ve received some personal satisfaction in knowing that they had possible drilled the last well to ever drill with a standard rig. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. If you bought a barrel of crude oil, would you get 55-gallons? Most people think so because they remember the 55-gallon drum in which the motor oil is sold. In reality, a barrel of crude oil means 42-gallons. In the early days of the industry, crude oil was actually shipped in wooden barrels, a standard barrel was supposed to contain 40-gallons, but exact measurement was difficult and a 5% variation in the contents of a barrel was allowed. 5% of 40-gallons is 2-gallons, so if a barrel contained between 38 and 42 gallons, it was acceptable. As pipelines and tank cars replaced barrels for the transportation of crude, the need for a 5% variation disappeared but the custom of the purchaser getting 42-gallons in each barrel did not. So a barrel of crude oil was officially declared to mean 42-gallons and it still does. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. The abbreviation for barrel should include only one ' ; B' ; , yet the standard abbreviation for barrel in the oil industry is BBL, and there' ; s a historical reason for this oddity. In the early days in the industry in Pennsylvania, all the crude oil was shipped in wooden barrels. Naturally, the capacity of any individual barrel varied according to the scale of the [Indecipherable] who made it. It was soon noticed that the barrels furnished by the firm run by a certain John D. Rockefeller were consistently good barrels. In order to easily identify his barrel, Rockefeller had them all painted blue. The blue barrel became the standard used in the field and reference was common and made to so many blue barrels in the measurement of crude. The abbreviation of Blue Barrel became ' ; BBL" ; and this abbreviation is still used industrywide to this day. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. In 1920, Charlie Tibbons drilled three shallow gas wells on the [Indecipherable] allotment 5 miles south of Bristow. There were good gas wells, but he found the real bonanza when he drilled in the deeper Dutcher sand. The number four [Indecipherable] made 90 barrels an hour. [Indecipherable] was a full blood [Indecipherable] engine and still owned the land on which the discovery was made. Her granddaughter and only living heir is [Indecipherable] Tiger Fry, who lives on a ranch about 10 miles east of Bristow. Eventually, more than 40 wells were drilled on the 160-acre allotment. More than one gathering company laid pipelines with the [Indecipherable] tank battery. Years ago, punk Corey told me that Tibbons daily production was so important, that every morning Tibbons would have representatives of the pipeline companies appear in his office to bid against one another, with the highest bidder being allowed to buy all that days production. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. GK: This is George Krumme bringing you a centennial moment about the early day of the oil industry in Bristow. When Rolland Oil Company staked its number one Alex in January of 1922, as a long step out from the new Poor Farm pool, they naturally hoped for a good detral oil well. They' ; d get a lot more than what they bargained for. When the oil sand was struck, the gas blew the string of cable tools up the hole, and somehow the tools became lodged near the top of the casing. The drillers ran in a string of fishing tools which they promptly lost in the hole. Soon, the well began flowing oil. At 1:30 in the morning, they turned the well into the only tank on the location. The well filled the five-hundred-barrel tank in the first hour with both string of tools still in the hole. With great difficulty, the drillers shut the well in and Rolland began erecting more tankage and building earth and dams with horse draws slips and scrapers. The daily Oklahoma reported that the well was making 12 thousand barrels a day through a small crack in the six inch of valve with two strings of tools still in the hole. The Bristow record declared that the Alex was the best well in the state, and that 23-year-old Eugene Clifford Alex, the [Indecipherable], had just bought himself a Packard twin six with his royalties. But Rolland wanted the tools out before they caused trouble that might lead to chunking the hole. They decided that the flow was so strong that it might blow the fishing tools out of the hole if the well were allowed to flow wide open. So one morning, a week or so later, they opened the control head and allowed the stream to flow unchecked straight up through the wooden Derrek. Sure enough, shortly afterwards, they heard a bloops at the control head and saw a thousand pounds of steal fly up the Derrek and fall back to the rig flower. Much pleased, they quickly rotated the control head to divert the flow back into the tanks. What they didn' ; t anticipate was that the heavy flow had also dislodge the drilling string, which they had lost in the hole, and that it was following the fishing tools. The half-ton of drilling tools hit the control head with such momentum that it broke the head into pieces. The well was then flowing wild, completely out of control, spraying oil over a mile straight to the north, and speckling houses all the way into Bristow three miles away. Working in slickers and praying that the oil would not catch fire, within six to eight hours, the crew succeeded in screwing on a new control head and the well was under control again. The Bristow record reported that the wild well had furnished more excitement per square inch than anything else ever known in Bristow or anywhere else. This is George Krumme closing a centennial moment about the early days of the oil industry in Bristow. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml OHP-0027-01_Krumme_George.xml
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George Krumme
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The following programs recorded in 1998 by George Krumme, a longtime Bristow oilman. In the following programs, George Krumme discusses the early oil industry in Bristow.
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Family Histories
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Oral History
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Georgia Smith
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Bill Dalpoas
Beth Dalpoas
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5.4 June 3, 2021 OHP-2021-18 Bill and Beth Dalpoas OHP-2021-18 00:00 - 53:53 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bill Dalpoas Beth Dalpoas Georgia Smith MP3 1:|62(11)|84(4)|121(4)|138(16)|168(3)|198(2)|232(7)|255(1)|305(11)|343(5)|385(2)|411(16)|430(2)|470(4)|509(11)|552(4)|591(4)|618(9)|638(5)|666(3)|696(8)|729(14)|772(12)|795(3)|814(12)|857(7)|892(7)|924(5)|943(10)|981(12)|1000(14)|1049(7)|1073(4)|1118(6)|1147(8)|1162(3)|1178(3)|1203(6)|1229(7)|1251(4)|1268(3)|1287(13)|1305(2)|1327(7)|1358(11)|1388(5)|1407(9)|1438(9)|1468(8)|1493(9)|1513(11)|1523(16)|1543(5)|1563(8) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-18 Dalpoas, Bill and Beth.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction BD: Here we go BD: Red light is on GS: Yup, and it’s running so here we go. BD: Okay GS: Alright, this is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma., and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The day is June 3rd, 2021 and I am sitting here at the home of Bill and Beth Dalpoas, who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, I’ll start with you Beth ; give me your full name and your date of birth. BD: Wow. Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas. Birthday: March 19, 1939, in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: Okay thank you, and Bill what was your full name at birth and birth date, and place. Dick List ; Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas ; Hartshorne, Oklahoma ; J.L. Bobson ; J.L. Turner ; McAlester, Oklahoma ; William Raymond Dalpaos 185 Local Businesses GS: Well we’re glad you didn’t. So what job did you come to here? BD: I was manager of a store. We opened in the old Safeway location, which is now Homestead. GS: Okay that’s right, Safeway was there BD: Right off the corner GS: 8th in Main, uh-huh. BD: And we opened the store and it was kinda [Indecipherable] store, we’d get big baskets of socks that were not even matched and we had to go through all of them and match them GS: Oh wow BD: It was nationwide department stores, wasn’t it? Ben Franklins ; Cleo Pinson ; Department Stores ; Dollar General ; Hi-Way Cafe ; Homestead ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; Travis Paten ; Walmart ; Wolverton Mountain https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186812043/cleo-wayne-pinson Cleo Pinson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmztcX_BtI Wolverton Mountain 643 Organizations and Church Life GS: Okay so when you moved here, did you get active in any of the organizations here in town? BD: Yeah we— GS: I’ll start with Bill, and then I’ll jump to you Beth BD: We had started a JC Program GS: Okay BD: I was president of JC’s for two years. We had a hundred members GS: Wow! BD: But— BD: Now that’s a certain age group, the JC’s are. GS: Okay Ashley Vandever ; Barbara Hutten ; Danny Ashley ; Dunaways Funeral Home ; First Baptist Church ; JC Program ; Johnny Carmichael ; Joule Dean Masterson ; Linda Suther ; Mary Hellen Holmes ; Morris Hancock ; Stacey James ; Sue Tapana ; Swimming Pool Project ; Western Heritage 1003 Special Memories and Events GS: Okay so do you have any anecdotes about those years, or special memories of events that happened during that time? BD: Well at one point in time I was a Welcome Wagon hostess for Bristow GS: Very good! BD: And the business professional women, we had a big committee of that— or group of that GS: Yes BD: And they got Jane Ann Jurough (ph), the reigning at that point in time, to come down. GS: Yes BD: And they— they had decorated the force field house with the big swing and all of that, and as the welcome wagon hostess, I got to go out to the [Indecipherable] house west of town GS: Yes Ally Reynolds ; Ashland, Oklahoma ; Buddy ; Corwins Dentistry ; Danny Hanks ; David Leflar ; Dowell Matthews ; Dr. Copiague ; Fort Cob ; Hartshorne, Oklahoma ; Jane Ann Jurough ; Johnny Darnell ; Jones Foundation ; Mr. Wells ; Myrtle Alexander ; Presbyterian ; Robert Jones ; Steve Holland ; Thurmans Hotel ; Welcome Wagon 1910 Entertainment GS: Yeah. Okay so you had a lot of the youth in your home BD: Yes GS: What else did you do for entertainment Bill? BD: Well we went dancing a lot GS: Oh where did you go dancing? BD: Anywhere there was a dance BD: Anywhere—When we first got married, we’d go to a dance every week GS: Were there dances here in Bristow? BD: No BD: No, that was before we moved here, there was Italian place in McAlester that would have us come at—it wasn’t Pete’s place, it was [Indecipherable] Big George Joseph ; Cara Jean Thompson ; Dana Dalpoas ; dance ; dancing ; Danny Dalpoas ; Jitterbug ; Pete's Place ; Roland Hotel ; Saturday Night Fever 2084 Work GS: Okay so Beth tell me about your time at Edison Elementary BD: Well, when we moved out here in 1976, and we got all settled and everything, I didn’t have anything to do. Both of the children were in school, he was at work, and so I went to Doctor Carmichael and I said “I’m ready to go to work. Is there anything available” you know? Well there was two or three jobs available, and I said “put me where you want me” and he put me as kindergarten aid. So for two or three years, I had my own room, where home alone is now, and I had every kindergartener every day. GS: Wow BD: They would come to my room, ‘cus we only had half day kindergarten then GS: Yes BD: And so one room—one half of the room was for morning kindergarten, the decorations and stuff, and the other room was—half was afternoon. And that went on and I mean the decorations were what they did. I mean, we had a— Bill drew a great big tree and we put it and we decorated it for every holiday, they did paperwork. Plus, then I as given the attendance books for Edison Elementary to keep on top of that GS: Okay Betty Lindsay ; Brent ; Doctor Carmichael ; Joann Free ; Judy Vise ; Lomenick ; Mr. Sanford ; Olivia Neil ; Rex Kearly ; Scott ; Warren Carmichael https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832848/warren-c-carmichael Dr. Warren Carmichael 2523 Influential Figures GS: Looking back at the decades again, who were some of the more influential people that you think have come through Bristow that have helped Bristow? BD: Well number one Doctor Warren Carmichael (ph) GS: Okay, he was the Superintendent for the schools BD: When I was on the school board they hired him, and when he came to Bristow, Bristow’s schools were stagnant. We had old building, and that’s what we jumped on first. We started building buildings, and it just went in a different way after he came here. He got retirement for the maintenance people and all of— BD: Support people BD: Support people GS: Yeah, yeah BD: Which they appreciate it GS: Which before they didn’t have? BD: No BD: He had a chain of command, you didn’t just— GS: No you didn’t Bob Chatterton ; Dick List ; Doctor Warren Carmichael ; Joann List ; Tara Montgomery 2848 Military Service GS: That brings up a good, different direction to go in. Did any either of you or your children serve in the service? BD: I did GS: What branch? BD: Army GS: Army? BD: 11 years GS: Were you— was it during peace time or did you go overseas? BD: I didn’t go overseas because I belonged to a division that was a training division GS: Okay BD: We trained troops to go over there GS: And what years were you with the Army? BD: Oh, I enlisted when I was in high school, 1956 until 64’ and I resigned, but the army kept me on 24-hour standby for three years 45th Division ; Army ; Okmulgee 2997 Biggest Societal Impact and COVID GS: Yes, it does. It definitely does. I usually ask people looking back over your lifetime, what do you consider the biggest, maybe not invention, but the invention or situation that changed things the most, or made the most impact on society or your life? BD: Wow GS: Yeah that’s a biggie BD: When you live as long as we have, there’s been a lot GS: Yes, there has BD: Technology GS: Definitely. I think technology is a lot like Pandora’s box BD: Yes, yes BD: I think we’ve had too much. I’m like the guy in the Tulsa paper today that complained about all the computers failing and everything, and he called 911, well their computer was down, he called the police and their computer was down, so he called the chief of police and asked him ‘have they outdated pencil and paper?’. But I think we’ve got too much communicating. When I was a kid growing up in Elementary school, if I got in trouble we didn’t have a home phone, but if I got in trouble before I came home that evening, my mother already knew about it. BD: True, so true COVID ; Elementary School ; Social Distancing ; Technology ; Tulsa Paper ; Vo-Tech In this 2021 interview, Bill and Beth Dalpoas share about life in Bristow as young adults. Together, they talk about the organizations they were active in, different businesses, and entertainment during that time. Interviewer: Georgia Smith Interviewee: Bill and Beth Dalpoas Other Persons: Date of Interview: June 3, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2021-18 at 00:00 to 53:53 Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. BD: Here we go BD: Red light is on GS: Yup, and it' ; s running so here we go. BD: Okay GS: Alright, this is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma., and this interview is part of the historical societies ongoing oral history project. The day is June 3rd, 2021 and I am sitting here at the home of Bill and Beth Dalpoas, who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in the Bristow area. Now, I' ; ll start with you Beth ; give me your full name and your date of birth. BD: Wow. Elizabeth Ann Long Dalpoas. Birthday: March 19, 1939, in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: Okay thank you, and Bill what was your full name at birth and birth date, and place. BD: William Raymond Dalpoas, and I was born in Hartshorne, Oklahoma, August 5, 1938. GS: Very good, wow. Okay and what year were you two married, Beth? BD: Oh, 1959 October the 4th in Hartshorne, Oklahoma. GS: In Hartshorne, Oklahoma. BD: We repeated our vows five years later First Baptist church in Bristow with reverend Dick List (ph) performing the ceremony. GS: Oh how wonderful! And what prompted you to do that? BD: Well, it was a promise that I had made my parents that we would do this, and-- but they didn' ; t show up. But the ladies at the church decorated with the colors that we had used in our wedding, and our son Danny carried our rings for us GS: Aw how sweet BD: And there was a reception at the church afterwards just like when we got married GS: Aw that' ; s-- that was pretty neat, that' ; s pretty neat. Well what brought you to the Bristow area Bill? BD: Well I was working in a store in McAlester, Oklahoma GS: What kind of store? BD: It was a general merchandise store, clothing. GS: Okay BD: It was a company owned by J.L. Dobson (ph). BD: Turner. J.L. Turner-- okay. BD: Out of Kentucky, and when I found out they were gonna move me to Bristow, we drove up here and looked the town over. GS: Very good BD: And we were not very impressed GS: Oh you weren' ; t? BD: No. There was [Indecipherable] and a Penny' ; s (ph) and two drug stores, two jewelry stores, and that' ; s just about all. And there was a Safeway, but that' ; s about all there was. I counted eleven empty buildings. GS: Wow, and that was in what year? BD: 1962 GS: My goodness BD: And I almost backed out when I saw the town, but I didn' ; t GS: Well we' ; re glad you didn' ; t. So what job did you come to here? BD: I was manager of a store. We opened in the old Safeway location, which is now Homestead. GS: Okay that' ; s right, Safeway was there BD: Right off the corner GS: 8th in Main, uh-huh. BD: And we opened the store and it was kinda [Indecipherable] store, we' ; d get big baskets of socks that were not even matched and we had to go through all of them and match them GS: Oh wow BD: It was nationwide department stores, wasn' ; t it? BD: Yeah it was a nationwide, and it morphed into what is now Dollar General store. GS: Oh okay! And Dollar General store is presently where a different old Safeway was (Laughter) BD: And the first person that we saw when we came to Bristow, really, was Cleo Pinson standing on the corner there by the store, singing Wolverton Mountain. GS: Oh my goodness BD: And after we looked the town over and ate at Hi-way Café, we drove around town awhile looking at houses, not knowing which side of town to look on or anything, got wound up out by the swimming pool and there was Cleo still singing Wolverton Mountain (Laughter) GS: How wonderful, Cleo was a main stay in Bristow for many years BD: Yes, and he never called me Beth, it was Beverly GS: Really? Well. BD: Beverly, the whole time, yes. GS: Okay, so how long were you with Nationwide? BD: Well, I was with them from 61' ; until 64' ; GS: Okay, and what caused you to leave them then? BD: I was hired by Travis Paten GS: Okay, to do what? BD: Be an assistant manager at a variety store, which was planned [Indecipherable] was gonna leave Bristow, and he bought the building and we opened a Ben Franklin store there. GS: I remember that, yes. So he hired you to be the manager of it? BD: Yes GS: How long did Ben Franklin' ; s last in Bristow? Well first off where was it? BD: Oh, it was right directly across the street from Safeway GS: Okay, so between 7th and 8th street on the West side BD: Yes BD: Where the parking lot is now GS: For the Mexican Restaurant BD: Right GS: Uh-huh, okay. And how long were you with Ben Franklin store? BD: Oh, till 1978 and I opened the men' ; s store GS: And what was the name of that store? BD: Bills [Indecipherable] GS: I remember that. And did you open it in Ben Franklins or in a different location-- I mean in the same building or a different location? BD: No, different location. GS: Okay, and so did-- was Ben Franklin' ; s still there, or-- and they had a different manager BD: Yes, it was still there, yes. GS: Okay, and how long did you have Bills [Indecipherable]? BD: Oh, what three years? BD: I believe so BD: Three years, and then I bought the Ben Franklin store GS: Oh okay! Okay, how long did you own it then? BD: Not very long, it burned. GS: I remember that BD: I think about two or three years later GS: Aww BD: We had it in 1982 because my dad' ; s clock that he had at the naval base in McAlester was in there that burned, Danas little flowers that she had in a coronation in high school were in there, and dads big roll top desk, remember? It was in there. BD: Yeah GS: Can you tell me anything Beth about some of the businesses that were on each side of the street? BD: I thought Bristow was a neat little town, I thought it was busy, but you know, I wasn' ; t a merchant so I-- I do know that there was-- when I was trying to find a house for us, or whatever, Chamber of Commerce wasn' ; t too happy about us moving to Bristow, but-- GS: Really? BD: Yeah, but it was-- GS: Why on earth not? BD: ' ; What kind of business are you putting in?' ; That was one of the questions, and I said " ; Well it' ; s a general merchandise, sir" ; and da-da-da, and they just weren' ; t too receptive, you know. GS: Well, that' ; s unusual BD: It really-- it really was GS: You would think they would' ; ve welcomed all business. BD: But-- no they weren' ; t, you know, because it was, you know, we had sharps, or not sharps at that time it was-- GS: Pennys (ph) BD: Pennys, and Shamus (ph) GS: Yes BS: and-- GS: Clothe stores BD: Yes, those. And we had men' ; s store, and it was like infringing on their business GS: Yes, I see BD: Which, in a way-- GS: And Patens Place (ph) BD: Yes, well Paten still had Ben Franklin, the small store. GS: Okay BS: It was-- GS: Well, but didn' ; t they have a clothing store too? BD: Yes, later on they did. GS: Oh, not right then BD: No, Pauline Paten (ph) GS: Okay BS: That was Pauline' ; s GS: I didn' ; t realize that, okay. BD: So it was-- I mean the people were great! The people themselves, you know, but I can sorta understand the business part, just like how we felt when we heard that Walmart was coming in. GS: Right, yes. BD: Bill made a comment when that happened, they said " ; What are you gonna do when Walmart opens" ; and he said " ; It wouldn' ; t matter if I had the Dallas cheerleaders dancing naked out on main street, they' ; d still go to Walmart" ; GS: Yeah BD: Which is-- GS: And Walmart has really hurt mainstream, downtown America. BD: If you look at any town that' ; s-- they have messed up main street America. I know everybody needed a job, but they had jobs before that in a different area. But it' ; s, yeah it has. BD: Yeah Walmart took 75% of my business the very first day GS: Wow, wow BD: At the time before Walmart moved in, I had 13 women working for me, and I ended up with two. GS: Oh my goodness, yeah that would be really disheartening BD: Yeah, it was GS: Yeah it would be. BD: People used to park on Main street on Saturday night because that was the late night to stay open just to see who was coming to town and to look inside the stores GS: Really? BD: It was really neat, yes GS: I like that! BD: They did! Certain people would have certain parking places every Saturday night and they parked on main street to watch the foot traffic and to see what was going on and it was really-- GS: Did we have the vertical parking then, or the horizontal? BD: We had both! GS: Okay BD: It was the vertical then we had the horizontal, and I think the ODOT said, you know, since it was a state highway, we had to do the-- BD: Parallel BD: Parallel parking GS: Yes, parallel parking BD: Whatever-- yeah, whatever that was, and so. GS: Okay so when you moved here, did you get active in any of the organizations here in town? BD: Yeah we-- GS: I' ; ll start with Bill, and then I' ; ll jump to you Beth BD: We had started a JC Program GS: Okay BD: I was president of JC' ; s for two years. We had a hundred members GS: Wow! BD: But-- BD: Now that' ; s a certain age group, the JC' ; s are. GS: Okay BD: And we were instrumental in doing a lot of things. We bought a siding machine and all the-- we did all the street signs, and put them up GS: Oh that' ; s awesome! BD: And we were instrumental in the swimming pool project GS: Yes BD: And we did a lot of-- lot of good things. GS: They have been a good organization in Bristow, they have BD: But it' ; s made up of young business men GS: Uh-huh BD: And Bristow ended up not having any GS: Yeah, yeah. Not very many, we had a few but not too many anymore, yeah. Most of them that we do-- BD: What we have now are good, but back then it was--really we went to state conventions and everything and made little Indian necklaces to represent Oklahoma. I mean the Women ; the JC Janes were the co-whatever' ; s of the JCs. GS: Were you a member of the JC Janes? BD: Yes, Barbara Hutten (ph), Ashley Vandever (ph), Sue Tapana (ph), Linda Suther (ph), yes, I mean we were all. Well I have a silver plate that says " ; Charter Member" ; For Stacey James (ph), Mary Ellen Holmes (ph), yes. GS: Yes BD: We were very active. I mean, we raffled Christmas items off, we' ; d sit and sew sequins on Christmas tree skirts and raffle those off. We were the backbone mainly of the JCs. I mean we were the support group of the JCs. Whatever they were active in, we went along with it. GS: So you didn' ; t do your own thing, you were there to back up the JCs? BD: Right GS: Okay very good, yeah. BD: And the JCs were the backbone of western heritage BD: Yes BD: We had gun fights GS: I remember, I was a kid and loved to go down to the gun fights and the stage coach coming in, bicycles build for two BD: Yes, yes GS: Lots of fun things BD: My best memory of that was I was due to get shot, and I got shot and I think it was Dunaways (ph) funeral home that had an old horse drawn hearse GS: Oh my goodness really? BD: Yeah and they come down and put me in that thing GS: Oh my goodness BD: Now this is in August bear in mind, no air conditioning, nothing BD: And it was hotter than blazes, I couldn' ; t hardly wait to get out of that thing BD: They took him ; I don' ; t know where they-- on up north main BD: they rode around with me for a while GS: Oh my goodness, I' ; d have said-- it probably wasn' ; t air conditioned, was it BD: No, no GS: Oh my goodness sakes BD: Joule Dean Masterton (ph) is -- I think I' ; ve donated the pictures, I' ; m not sure but there she is over and she' ; s tickling him trying to get him to move, but I mean he' ; s been shot you know. (Laughter) BD: But Joule Dean was trying to get him to move or something, then they loaded him up in that GS: I' ; d love to have some copies of some of those pictures BD: Okay GS: That would be just marvelous, that would be wonderful. So besides the JCs and the JC Janes, are there other organizations you were involved in? BD: Well we were very active in the First Baptist Church, we were both Sunday school teachers for Junior high, and he coached baseball-- BD: Yeah BD: For-- GS: Little league baseball? BD: Well we had church leagues then GS: Oh okay BD: If you didn' ; t attend Sunday school you didn' ; t-- GS: Play baseball BD: you didn' ; t play that week or whatever GS: Uh-huh BD: So it was-- BD: And I still have-- well there were a few that played on my team in Bristow and they still call me coach GS: Aww that' ; s nice BD: Or Papa Bill-- or Daddy Bill! BD: Yeah Daddy Bill BD: Daddy Bill, because that' ; s what Danny called him, ya know was Daddy Bill. GS: Danny? BD: Our son GS: Oh okay BD: Our son called him Daddy Bill, so I mean there were Danny Hanks, and-- my goodness BD: Ashley BD: Ol' ; Danny Ashley BD: Danny Ashley (ph) BD: Yes BD: Johnny Carmichael (ph) BD: Yes, his dad was a highway patrol man here, the Carmichael' ; s BD: And Morris Hancock (ph) GS: Yes BD: Yes. Yeah, I still keep up with them on Facebook GS: He came into the museum over tabbouleh fest BD: Oh really? GS: He did, I got to see him, I hadn' ; t seen him in years. BD: Well that' ; s great! We haven' ; t either. GS: Okay so, you mentioned Danny, your son. How many children did you have? BD: We have two children ; Danny was nine months old when we moved up here GS: Okay BD: And then Dana is our daughter and she was born in February of 64' ; out here in Bristow medical center-- or the hospital then! The Baptists had it then GS: Yes BD: And Danny was born at Saint Marys' ; hospital in McAlester GS: Okay BD: So, our families were not too happy when we moved up here, but-- GS: I' ; m sure BD: You' ; ve gotta do what you' ; ve gotta do GS: That' ; s right, jobs take you where they take you BD: Right GS: Okay so do you have any anecdotes about those years, or special memories of events that happened during that time? BD: Well at one point in time I was a Welcome Wagon hostess for Bristow GS: Very good! BD: And the business professional women, we had a big committee of that-- or group of that GS: Yes BD: And they got Jane Ann Jurough (ph), the reigning at that point in time, to come down. GS: Yes BD: And they-- they had decorated the force field house with the big swing and all of that, and as the welcome wagon hostess, I got to go out to the [Indecipherable] house west of town GS: Yes BD: And give her gifts from the local merchants GS: Oh how wonderful! BD: So that was-- and I understand she' ; s still a TV announcer in Oklahoma City GS: Uh-huh, I' ; ve seen her a time or two BD: That was a, something. And then Ally Reynolds (ph) one of the baseball-- BD: Yeah one of the baseball field was dedicated out here, which now football--high school football has taken it over GS: Okay BD: And I had a New York Yankees baseball that my Anna gave me, and I took it up to him and had him resign under his name GS: Aww how wonderful! Do you still have that? BD: No GS: Aw BD: I gave it to my son and he sold it on Ebay-- BD: Ebay or something GS: Aww, that' ; s a shame. BD: But he does have a baseball signed from-- when we had the t-shirt shop, it was in the summer time in the Fort Cob boys. There was a little team from Fort Cob baseball, and they' ; d come in the store and they ordered t-shirts that had certain lettering on them, well our daughter Dana could do the lettering real good, she and Bill did that, and they were not allowed to swim on--and they were staying at Thurman' ; s hotel up on North main, and every time they' ; d win a game, they' ; d bring those little shirts in and I' ; d wash them for them and they' ; d have new lettering put on [Indecipherable]. And they got into the finals, and they would just lay around in the store because it was air conditioned, they didn' ; t bother anything or anybody, they' ; d do little errands and they were the nicest young men. And their coaches were fantastic, and they got in the championship game over in Mannford, and they won. GS: Oh wonderful BD: And the first people they came to show the trophy was Bill and I GS: Aww BD: So that really-- GS: Spoke a lot to them BD: Yes, so Dana-- I brought all their shirts home, washed them on Saturday night so they could have them on Sunday to be able to go back to Fort Cob, but we heard from one of the coaches' ; wife for quite a few years, and they offered to come get us for their picnic in a private plane, but we didn' ; t go. GS: That would have been a fun experience BD: Oh--maybe! Maybe so BD: I still have their baseball bat there BD: Yeah, they signed us a baseball GS: Aww BD: And I have the baseball from my team too from 1966 GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful, 1966 BD: Yeah we' ; re a collector of ' ; things' ; , I mean just-- BD: Well I had-- she had a birthday party for me, and they all came to the house and that' ; s when they signed the baseball GS: Awww that' ; s perfect! That' ; s just the perfect present BD: Our house was the party house and the whatever house that the kids wanted to come to, because was it the bachelors that? BD: Yeah BD: They used to come practice in our living room, the band BD: Oh boy GS: That takes some patience to put up with that now BD: Yes, yes. Yeah that--but they did-- GS: Who was in that band? Was that Steve Hollands band? BD: No, that was before Steve I think BD: Yeah it was BD: Or maybe it was in between-- I don' ; t remember, there was Danny Hanks (ph), gosh we went all through that just recently, who was in what band. And then they would have teen town on Friday nights, was it? BD: Yeah BD: At the Presbyterian basement. GS: Oh in the Presbyterian basement! I never went to it there BD: I--yes it was because we lived on West fifth street, the house has been torn down now GS: That was probably before I lived here BD: Yes, yes GS: When I went to Teen town, it was on east ninth I believe BD: No that was before the Presbyterians sponsored it GS: Was after it? Presbyterian was before or after the east ninth teen town? BD: Yes, yes. It was before. GS: Before BD: Yup GS: Okay, and then it moved from the east ninth location to seventh street and it didn' ; t last very long on east seventh. About where that church is, the Cornerstone church BD: Oh okay GS: My memory' ; s a little fuzzy but about there BD: I don' ; t remember--I mean GS: When I was, oh maybe a sophomore in high school BD: Oh okay GS: So around 71' ; maybe, I moved here BD: Okay GS: Okay so looking back at the decades you' ; ve been here ; what decade do you think was the best for Bristow? BD: 60' ; s GS: The 60' ; s? BD: Definitely the 60' ; s GS: What do you think made it the best? BD: The people GS: The people? BD: They were together. I mean they worked together, business was good, schools have always been great, he served on the school board for-- BD: Nine years BD: Nine years, and then I worked for Edison for 27 years, and how long did you work at-- BD: Seventeen years BD: Seventeen years, so. It' ; s been great, really. We have no--well people were motivated in the 60' ; s, you know? The families in the 70' ; s were alright. We moved in our present home where we are now in 1976 in June. In September of that year, school had started and our son comes home and says " ; I volunteered the carport to build our float" ; (Laughter) BD: The big nails are still out in the carport framing, and they were out here-- I mean BD: I came home from work, and it was dark, and I turned the corner and came in the driveway and I had kids on the roof GS: Oh my goodness BD: They were everywhere BD: Well this was all woods then, so we were the second home to build out here. This was all a wooded area GS: Oh my goodness, and now look at all the houses around you. BD: Yes, this 40 acres was bought by Mr. Jones and Mr. Leflar from a little Indian-- GS: Robert Jones (ph) and David Leflar (ph)? BD: No GS: The lawyers? No? BD: David Leflar and-- BD: Well Leflar was the--he had the Jones foundation BD: Yes GS: Okay, those Jones BD: And they kept telling me--when we were building this was not in the city limits and I said " ; Yes it is" ; " ; No it isn' ; t" ; so I went to city hall one day when Johnny Darnell (ph) was still with us in the city clerk, got my coke and peanuts, and I went through all the records that Johnny would let me go through GS: Uh-huh BD: And I found a school board minutes one time and there' ; d been a [Indecipherable] on there cus' ; Mr. Leflar was also the school attorney GS: Oh okay BD: So he had added that on that this was--this 40 acres was in the city limits GS: There you go, good for you! BD: So I-- we, well they weren' ; t gonna give us any city utilities or anything GS: Oh yeah BD: We still have our own water well, we don' ; t have city water GS: Really? BD: But that' ; s okay, we don' ; t have a water bill GS: Yeah, exactly yeah BD: And it' ; s good water too GS: That' ; s good, that' ; s very good BD: So we did-- this was all red clay when we moved here GS: Lots of red clay in Bristow BD: Yes, yes. And the Matthews home on the hill was the first home built out here because Dowell (ph) and Leflar owned this GS: Okay BD: Dowell Matthews and David Leflar. GS: Okay, and did they develop-- did they build all the houses or just they sold the lots? BD: The lots, we bought two lots ' ; cus we lived where Corwins dentist office is in a two story house GS: Oh okay! Uh-huh! BD: And we had the first tree that was ever had Christmas lights outside on it GS: Aww BD: And they tore ' ; em down GS: Aww that hurt, didn' ; t it? BD: Yes, yes it did. Especially when you found out it was someone in your Sunday school class GS: Aww (Laughter) BD: But it--then when the grocery store burned, Mr. Wells, who was the owner of the grocery store, started buying lots. Bill and I had said to ourselves " ; When we get to x amount of dollars, we' ; ll sell" ; GS: There you go, uh-huh. BD: He did! GS: Wow! Very wonderful BD: So we used that money to build this home GS: Very good! BD: So, he was-- there was a lot of fun times over there on 7th street too. I mean, the folks over there were really good too-- GS: Good neighbors BD: Yes, yes. The Methodist church was right across the street GS: Yes BD: And, ohh what was her name? Alexander-- Myrtle GS: Myrtle Alexander (ph) BD: Yes. I would crank up the stereo if I was cleaning a house and open the door and she' ; d go sweeping down the sidewalk to tell them about [Indecipherable] BD: Dancing GS: How wonderful BD: She was-- she was a keeper for sure. GS: I' ; ve heard many good things about her BD: Then we had--there was a little--did Buddy just have one leg? The little black guy who had the shoe shine? BD: Hm, yeah BD: There was a little black guy' ; s first name was Buddy. I have heard his last name ; someone has told me but I' ; ve forgotten. He had a little shoe shine place in the alcove of where-- BD: Where Penny' ; s (ph) was BD: Yes, where-- GS: Okay, yes BD: There' ; s a little alcove in there and Buddy had a shoe shine stop GS: Oh how wonderful! BD: And he would talk by our house and one day he just stopped and he--we just had the best conversation because he told us, told me who had built lived in that house. It was a doctor Copiague. Now I don' ; t know which Copiague it was, but he told me that he took care of his horses, little paint horses, their little team. And when Doc Copiague (ph) would go out at night, Buddy said I would go, and he said that this porch right here on this house ; when it got hot, the girls would sleep out on this, and I said " ; Really Buddy?" ; and he said " ; Yeah" ; . And he said " ; On all the sides on this side of town, you see the little houses on the ally? Well that' ; s where the house keepers stayed" ; or whatever. And he said " ; We just had a lot of fun. Doctor Copiague was so nice" ; GS: Aw BD: I just thought ' ; Wowie' ; , ya know. And he said this house had a big wrought iron fence all the way around it, because we dug and found--we didn' ; t know what was going on, but it was--We moved from a five room house to a nine room house GS: Oh my goodness, that' ; s wonderful BD: And the nine room house people moved into our five room house (Laughter) BD: That was a busy, busy night GS: Downsizing and upsizing BD: Yes, yes. But we' ; ve-- this is home GS: Yes BD: You know ; we weren' ; t raised here. Bill was raised is Hartshorne, and I was raised in Ashland, which is a farming community. GS: What--where is that in Oklahoma? BD: That' ; s south west of McAlester BD: Yeah GS: Oh okay BD: My dad was called to the naval base, it used to be a navy base, it' ; s an army base now. GS: Yes DD: Now I' ; ve still got a ashtray and stuff from that navy base. And dad worked for the rock Island, he went to work from-- he was manager southern ice in Haileyville, and then we went to work for Rock Island Railroad and hated it, then when the war broke out, my dad had a fantastic memory for numbers. And they needed somebody to dispatch the railroad cars, so basically he was drafted. I mean he was-- had too many dependents to be drafted. But it was like ' ; give up your job-- ' ; GS: I' ; m just gonna check and make sure we' ; re going great, yes we are. BD: And worked at the navy base GS: Oh, uh-huh BD: So dad worked out there for twenty something years before he retired GS: Oh BD: So, and then we moved on--McAlester was here, Navy base was here, Ashland was here, Hartshorne was on the other side-- east of McAlester, we were Ashland was west. We were 45 miles apart when we were dating, so big drive. (Laughter) You' ; d drive that way-- BD: I put a lot of miles on my car GS: I bet you did Bill BD: And how many months, we dated? BD: Six months GS: Ahh BD: Our first date was April the 15th, 1959 income tax day GS: Oh my goodness, yes. BD: And we got married October the 4th GS: Oh, well that' ; s a pretty speedy courtship there BD: Yeah. Be 62 years this October GS: Well congratulations BD: I guess BD: Yeah GS: Yeah. Okay so you had a lot of the youth in your home BD: Yes GS: What else did you do for entertainment Bill? BD: Well we went dancing a lot GS: Oh where did you go dancing? BD: Anywhere there was a dance BD: Anywhere--When we first got married, we' ; d go to a dance every week GS: Were there dances here in Bristow? BD: No BD: No, that was before we moved here, there was Italian place in McAlester that would have us come at--it wasn' ; t Pete' ; s place, it was [Indecipherable] GS There was a large settlement I think the Italians in that area BD: Right [Indecipherable] And we go--they' ; d ask us to come dance Tuesday night to get people to come out on the dance floor and dance, then they' ; d give us our meal free GS: Oh how wonderful! Well that was pretty good for a newlywed couple BD: Yeah that helped a lot, that helped a lot. GS: I think Ted would' ; ve learned a dance BD: Danny and Dana both danced. We had-- we went to Sapulpa and Danny and Cara Jean Thompson (ph) went to Stroud and a contest, like Saturday Night Fever or whatever, they were very good, they could-- GS: And was it 50' ; s type dancing or ballroom dancing? BD: Bill and I, both GS: Both BD: Uh-huh, yeah. He was very good dancer BD: Jitterbug GS: And you could Jitterbug? BD: Oh yeah GS: Oh I wish I could see you Jitterbug BD: I wish I still could (Laughter) GS: I understand that BD: You could if you wanted to, you could if you wanted to. But we-- GS: So did you go to Tulsa to dances from Bristow? BD: No, they used to have quite a few dances. I mean, and up on top of the Roland Hotel is a big ballroom GS: Oh okay BD: And on top of JC Penny was, is a ballroom GS: Yes BD: But the J.C.' ; s used to have our-- some of our new year' ; s parties up there. When Big George Joseph (ph) and all of those were-- GS: Yes BD: Big George had a pig onetime that had been roasted, and that was our centerpiece and [Indecipherable] so, yeah. GS: Was it staring back at ya? BD: Yes BD: Yeah, it had an apple in its mouth BD: Cherries for the eyes BD: I didn' ; t eat too much GS: I understand that BD: But that--there' ; s a very nice dance floor up there. And on top of the Penny' ; s building was also-- BD: Well they used to have dances out at the country club. GS: Okay, were you members of the country club? BD: For a while, yeah GS: Uh-huh, any other organizations, like the Elks or anything? BD: No I belonged to the Lions for a while GS: The Lions club, okay. BD: Did you belong to the Rotary or was it Travis? BD: No, the Lions club. I didn' ; t belong to the Rotary BD: Okay GS: Okay so Beth tell me about your time at Edison Elementary BD: Well, when we moved out here in 1976, and we got all settled and everything, I didn' ; t have anything to do. Both of the children were in school, he was at work, and so I went to Doctor Carmichael and I said " ; I' ; m ready to go to work. Is there anything available" ; you know? Well there was two or three jobs available, and I said " ; put me where you want me" ; and he put me as kindergarten aid. So for two or three years, I had my own room, where home alone is now, and I had every kindergartener every day. GS: Wow BD: They would come to my room, ' ; cus we only had half day kindergarten then GS: Yes BD: And so one room--one half of the room was for morning kindergarten, the decorations and stuff, and the other room was--half was afternoon. And that went on and I mean the decorations were what they did. I mean, we had a-- Bill drew a great big tree and we put it and we decorated it for every holiday, they did paperwork. Plus, then I as given the attendance books for Edison Elementary to keep on top of that GS: Okay BD: So it was running all the papers for the two teachers at that time, and myself, plus taking the attendance for Edison. And when Christmas came, it was Brent, Scott, Lomenick, all that group. I had made little Christmas ornaments for every one of them. And one of the mothers told me not long ago they she still have it GS: Aw that' ; s so sweet BD: So I' ; m going ' ; Okay' ; but it was out of clothespins and glue and paint, and then we moved down to-- what building is it did they used? Now it was where that third grade building, I don' ; t know what they use that building for, it' ; s not the administration building, But there was Joann Free (ph) and Betty Lindsay (ph) and I was will their aid in the room, I was there all the time. So I went from one to the other, but I loved those little ones. It was-- I can still remember ' ; Sounds like Gurple, but it' ; s Purple' ; ya know. But teaching them their colors and kindergarteners are so much more advanced for the time they-- I mean we' ; ve got a great granddaughter that' ; ll go in kindergarten this next year and she' ; s gonna be bored at first. GS: Aw, pretty sharp BD: She' ; s very sharp GS: She already reading? BD: Yes, yes. BD: Yeah her mother' ; s a teacher so that helps GS: Yes, it does. BD: Yes, they' ; re the ones who were here this past weekend to visit us GS: Aw that' ; s wonderful BD: So we had a sleep over. They slept in here and it was-- it was great but I loved my time at Edison because I worked in the office, or back in the office for I don' ; t know how many years, and then Mrs. Vise, Judy Vise (ph) was the principal and she said " ; Would you like to move to the media?" ; Because the lady out there was gonna be leaving, last name was Neil, I can' ; t think of her first name right now. Olivia. And I said " ; I would love to" ; I mean, and that' ; s, the library was my thing GS: Oh that' ; s wonderful BD: I love to read, I-- GS: So how long were you at Edison? BD: 27 years GS: So you retired from Edison BD: Right, right. GS: Very good, and what year was that? BD: I don' ; t know, ' ; cus I still substitute at the high school GS: I knew that you did. Do you still substitute today? BD: I didn' ; t this last year because of the COVID, but hopefully and the Good Lord willing, the creek don' ; t rise, and my health holds up, I' ; ll go back this next year. GS: Well bless you and more power to you. BD: I love-- Why the high school? I don' ; t know. But I love history, we' ; re lacking in that. I don' ; t know music that well, but I love to substitute for Mr. Sanford in the Choir. And fact is a couple years ago, I taught a young man how to dance for the prom. He didn' ; t know how to dance, and I said " ; if you step on my toe one time we' ; re gonna quit" ; because he was a big young man. But I still love the kids. GS: Aw that' ; s wonderful, it' ; s good for you, good for you. What year did you retire Bill? BD: 2001 GS: And you retired from what business BD: From--I was maintenance supervisor at the school GS: At the school. So when did you go to work for the school? After Ben Franklin burned? BD: Yeah, I was in my 40' ; s and when the store burned, I was, you know, I didn' ; t. And I tried reopening a store in the location where homestead is GS: Okay, uh-huh BD: And that didn' ; t last. Walmart was still-- when I opened the store, Walmart sent clerks into the store with notepads writing down everything I' ; d put in that store GS: Aw BD: And then they' ; d go back and put it in Walmart at a lower price, so. GS: Aw that makes me sad BD: Then I went to Doctor Carmichael and asked him if there' ; s anything available at the school, and he said " ; give me a few days and I' ; ll get back to you" ; . So he came back and said " ; I want you to be the night supervisor for house cleaning" ; , so I did that for a year, and then Rex Kearly (ph) retired and he hired me to be the maintenance director GS: Okay BD: Then that' ; s where I stayed, till I retired GS: In 2001, very good. Have you been active in anything since you retied? Hobbies or organizations? BD: Oh I' ; m [Indecipherable] but I still worked after I returned, I mowed for the school for what, 14 years BD: Yes GS: Very good, it' ; s good to stay active BD: Oh yeah, I miss that now but I can' ; t be very active GS: Oh I know, I understand that totally BD: He' ; s still a good guy, he' ; s a keeper GS: Looking back at the decades again, who were some of the more influential people that you think have come through Bristow that have helped Bristow? BD: Well number one Doctor Warren Carmichael (ph) GS: Okay, he was the Superintendent for the schools BD: When I was on the school board they hired him, and when he came to Bristow, Bristow' ; s schools were stagnant. We had old building, and that' ; s what we jumped on first. We started building buildings, and it just went in a different way after he came here. He got retirement for the maintenance people and all of-- BD: Support people BD: Support people GS: Yeah, yeah BD: Which they appreciate it GS: Which before they didn' ; t have? BD: No BD: He had a chain of command, you didn' ; t just-- GS: No you didn' ; t. BD: No, it was--it was entirely different and everybody-- a lot of people complained about the yearly picnic we had, but--and every once in a while when insurance stuff would come up, we' ; d all meet in the old junior high auditorium. He kept us updated on our insurance, all the school, the cafeteria would fix all the chicken before the picnic. But every school was to bring certain dishes and we' ; d meet out at the high school for that. So Dr. Carmichael had a great deal to do, and coming on down the line honey, who would you say? BD: Influential people? BD: Yeah GS: In Bristow yeah, that have helped it quite a bit. BD: Hm, well we had a few merchants that were active and-- GS: Go getters BD: Yes, they started fixing up their storefronts, which helped the main street GD: Definitely, definitely did BD: That helps a great deal to have--even if the store is basically empty, if the windows are decorated or something it has great appeal to folks. Well so many, though, really have done a lot that have not been recognized, you know. GS: Very true BD: Behind the scenes that, you know, I commend Tara Montgomery (ph) for all that she' ; s done for the swimming, you know GS: Yes, definitely BD: And-- GS: We know Bob Chatterton (ph) with the city lake, that' ; s a big asset to Bristow BD: Oh Bob Chatterton in his class of 40' ; did wonders. I did the first 1940 thing for Bob Chatterton GS: Oh really BD: Yes, I did, when I went to the school he came in and we visited and then Christmas that year I got this humongous, now we' ; re talking big, poinsettia type tree. And it was from Bob Chatterton and the 1940 class GS: Aww BD: And he didn' ; t forget, I mean that was--because I had typed up all of those for-- all the students that had been had submitted things for scholarships. Bob Chatterton did a lot for the depot, he did a lot for the students, he did a lot for our town. BD: He did football field to BD: Yes GD: Oh he did? I didn' ; t know that BD: Yeah he played for the track BD: Track GS: I didn' ; t even realize that BD: First--the first asphalt track GS: That' ; s a nice track BD: Yes, it is, yes it is. And Gosh you caught us off guard on that because GS: Sorry about that BD: We' ; ve admired and been friends with a lot of people. GS: You' ; ve probably known a lot of business men, a lot of pastors BD: Oh yes, the Pastor when we moved here was Dick List GS: Okay BD: And his wife, and we visited every church that Dick and Joann-- they were very, very close friends out ours. Every church, and they even served in England too, they went overseas, and there was one church that we didn' ; t visit Dick and Joann. We went to Louisiana, or [Indecipherable] Mississippi where their church was and visited some of the Antebellum homes there while we were. I mean, when they came to Bristow, this was their home. They were here. And he calls sometimes, he was in the military, he was a chaplain. GS: Oh! How wonderful BD: And he did that when the Vietnam war, he went in. And I went in and said " ; Dick why did you do that?" ; and he said " ; How can I minister to the families of these young men if I don' ; t know what' ; s going on?" ; and that' ; s just the kind of pastor that he was. I mean, he was-- GS: That brings up a good, different direction to go in. Did any either of you or your children serve in the service? BD: I did GS: What branch? BD: Army GS: Army? BD: 11 years GS: Were you-- was it during peace time or did you go overseas? BD: I didn' ; t go overseas because I belonged to a division that was a training division GS: Okay BD: We trained troops to go over there GS: And what years were you with the Army? BD: Oh, I enlisted when I was in high school, 1956 until 64' ; and I resigned, but the army kept me on 24-hour standby for three years GS: So you were still doing army when you came here and started working for Nationwide, right? BD: Yeah GS: Well that kept you busy, didn' ; t it? BD: Yeah BD: They didn' ; t have a slot for him here at the reserve, so he had to drive to Okmulgee GS: Oh BD: Well Bristow had a 45th division here GS: Okay BD: And they were artillery, and all my background was infantry GS: Ah BD: So I had to drive to Okmulgee GS: Makes sense BD: But, he is eligible for VA benefits because the time that he served was during what they call the Cold War BD: Well they' ; ve got me written down for Korea service, but I never went to Korea GS: Praise the Lord BD: Yeah BD: But I was in that time frame GS: You were training men to go over there BD: Yes, and Vietnam they got me down for that, but I never went to Vietnam. I probably should have, but I didn' ; t. GS: Yeah, well it' ; s not for lack of you, they thought you did better work here probably BD: Yeah, I' ; ve always felt a little guilty about not doing it because I was trained for it GS: Right, well you go where they put you BD: Yeah and I had two little kids and a wife, so that made a difference GS: Yes, it does. It definitely does. I usually ask people looking back over your lifetime, what do you consider the biggest, maybe not invention, but the invention or situation that changed things the most, or made the most impact on society or your life? BD: Wow GS: Yeah that' ; s a biggie BD: When you live as long as we have, there' ; s been a lot GS: Yes, there has BD: Technology GS: Definitely. I think technology is a lot like Pandora' ; s box BD: Yes, yes BD: I think we' ; ve had too much. I' ; m like the guy in the Tulsa paper today that complained about all the computers failing and everything, and he called 911, well their computer was down, he called the police and their computer was down, so he called the chief of police and asked him ' ; have they outdated pencil and paper?' ; . But I think we' ; ve got too much communicating. When I was a kid growing up in Elementary school, if I got in trouble we didn' ; t have a home phone, but if I got in trouble before I came home that evening, my mother already knew about it. BD: True, so trueGS: Okay we' ; ve been-- we' ; re at the tail end thank goodness of this COVID pandemic. How has that changed life for you Beth? BD: Well, it kept me out of the school this past year, for one thing. But we both have had out two shots and we were very cautious when we went out, we didn' ; t go out that much, the grocery stores and-- GS: Yeah I-- no I' ; s just checking my recorder BD: Oh, okay. Grocery store, doctor, that' ; s about the only time-- we didn' ; t attend any basketball games or any social stuff, but we wore our masks and it' ; s been kind of rough in some ways, but we' ; ve done a lot of visiting with our neighbors out on the porch that way we were-- GS: Social distancing BD: Right GS: And you have the outside air and, yeah, yeah. BD: So we were--fact is out Christmas was with the ones that were here this past weekend. We had it on our deck, they came down the day after Christmas ; we had out masks on, we were outside, the little ones played in the backyard and in the garden, and so it was a beautiful day. God took care of us and neither of us had any signs of COVID and we got our shots over at Vo-Tech so we were Ok. GS: Wonderful, that' ; s wonderful. How about you Bill, can you add anything to that? BD: No, I' ; ve kinda liked staying at home so it worked out good for me (Laughter) BD: Very true GS: Good deal. Okay is there anything you can thing of story wise, personal information, town wise that we haven' ; t thought to mention that you would say " ; Oh that would be good to tell her about" ; ? BD: Oh we' ; ll think of it after you leave Georgia GS: Of course, of course. Well I sure do appreciate you giving us your time for this oral history interview and it' ; ll be remembered for a long time BD: Well we' ; ve enjoyed it I think, right Bill? BD: Yeah GS: Oh well thank you so much, I' ; ve enjoyed it tremendously. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-18_Dalpoas_Bill_and_Beth.xml OHP-2021-18_Dalpoas_Bill_and_Beth.xml
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Bill and Beth Dalpoas
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In this 2021 interview, Bill and Beth Dalpoas share about life in Bristow as young adults. Together, they talk about the organizations they were active in, different businesses, and entertainment during that time.
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2021-06-03
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0002-V 'Bristow Here We Live' OHP-0002-V 00:28:48 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. m4v 1:|44(3)|64(2)|86(3)|101(8)|126(2)|144(1)|144(2)|144(3)|144(4)|146(11)|164(1)|196(1)|196(2)|198(40)|230(4)|233(1)|233(2)|255(7)|288(2)|312(32)|326(1)|354(4)|362(1)|362(2)|389(5)|391(24)|412(18)|423(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0002-V 1959 Bristow Here We Live.m4v Other video 154 Mr. Arthur Foster-Community State Bank H: [indecipherable] Hugh H: Thank you H: Mr. Arthur Foster started with the Community State Bank in 1927 running errands, and when were you made president Mr. Foster? AF: 1954 H: And we have an old time resident here who is quite young uh in ideas maybe a little old in years but Mrs. Groom how long have you been in Bristow and do you mind telling us your age? MG: No, I’m 84 and I’m still running the hardware and furniture store and when I get old I shall retire. H: (laughter) Mr. Foster do you think you’ll make 84 years? I don’t know whether I ever will. AF: I don’t know ether, but I sure hope so. H: I sure hope I’m this young and spry when I’m 84 I’ll tell you that. AF: Well I always hoped so, Mrs. Groom was my neighbor and I always hoped that I could have the speed that she has and then the outlook on life that she has when I’m half that old. H: Well both of you have seen a lot of Bristow. How has the growth of Bristow compared uh this past 10 years compared to the recent 10 years? AF: In the last 10 years Bristow has grown in the way of uh housing and the volume of business has grown, the dollar volume has increased quite a bit. H: Both of the banks here have grown along with it Arthur Foster ; Community State Bank ; Mrs. Groom 257 Moe Einstein-Chamber of Commerce H: Moe Einstein is a transplanted Texan ; he came to Bristow some 10 years ago. This year was honored as president of the Chamber of Commerce. Moe, what caused you to come to Bristow, Oklahoma? ME: I married a Bristow girl and Oklahoma is my home now. H: Well that’s wonderful, you’ve uh certainly over the past 10 years done very well here and this year being honored as president of the Chamber of Commerce. Let’s talk a little but now about the aims of the chamber this year ME: Well we have a progressive little town here. We have some wonderful people, friendly people, we have good industrial sites. We’re trying to get industry to come to Bristow, and we’re succeeding in getting industry to come to Bristow. We feel Bristow is the hub of eastern Oklahoma roadways, we have the turnpike, we have Highway 66, 48, 27, in other words we can go North, South, East or West. H: Now a few years ago, Bristow was one of the cities, and there were many, that felt the turnpike might almost put them completely out of business. Has that happened? ME: No Hugh it hasn’t. H: As a matter of fact, you’ve gone forward since the [indecipherable] ME: We have and we’re going to go forward more H: Well with men like you at the helm who have the future of Bristow at heart well I don’t see how it do anything but go forward. Chamber of Commerce ; Highway 27 ; Highway 48 ; Highway 66 ; Moe Einstein ; SprayLine Boat Manufacturing Company ; Turnpike 357 Virgil and Earl Griffen-Otasco H: Virgil and Earl Griffin literally grew up with Otasco. Virgil uh when did you first start to work for them? VG: In February 1938. H: And Earl when did you start? EG: June 39 I believe it was. H:Well you fellas have had quite a bit of experience with em. Actually Otasco closed this store down in what year? VG: Uh 42 due to the work conditions, (indecipherable), and manpower along with five other stores. H: And then a little later on you and Earl uh purchased the stores and associate stores. VG: That’s correct, 1947, we’ll be here 13 years in May. H: Now its unique in that you have two stores here in Bristow across the street from each other. VG: That’s right. H: And uh I understand you’re going however to put the entire Otasco line under one roof shortly. VG: Possibly in about 12 months. S: Well fine. Earl has it been a rewarding experience for you in the last 13 years? EG: It sure has. Earl Griffen ; Oklahoma Tire and Supply Store ; Otasco ; Virgil Griffen 565 Film-Fire Department, SprayLine Boats, and Police Department 697 Mr. H Cunningham-Cunningham Chevrolet H: [Indecipherable] Cunningham was a teacher and superintendent of schools for 21 years. 5 years ago he moved to Bristow from Beggs, Oklahoma and now has the Cunningham Chevrolet Company. Mr. Cunningham that’s quite a chance from school teaching to the automobile business. Uh what prompted you? MC: Uh my first interest was that we might gain finically and second that we might have something more stable that we wouldn’t have to move around as often as superintendent of schools would move and third we had two young boys coming along that we thought would be uh given them an opportunity to learn something other than just books. H: Mr. Cunningham how is the acceptance of the 1960 Chevrolet been? MC: Uh I feel that it has been the best of any car that we’ve ever had since I’ve been in the Chevrolet business, and I’ve been in for 10 years’ present time. H: Now uh you mentioned that many folks who drive the Chevrolet for the first time this year are amazed at the luxury ride they get, uh better than any previous car? MC: That’s right. If we can get them to take a ride in a Chevrolet and do uh the driving themselves, I’ll guarantee they’ll be satisfied with it. H: Fine, thank you. It looks like you’ve learned the automobile business quite well over the past few years. This is Glenn Cunningham, who has a famous name, and is a sophomore down at the University of Oklahoma. What are you studying down there Glenn? GC: I’m studying letters, which is comprised, its comprised of history, English and philosophy H: Preparatory to a possible teaching profession? GC: Correct or perhaps law. H: You’re also going out for the football team down there aren’t you? GC: Yes, sir. Cunningham Chevrolet ; Football ; Glenn Cunningham ; University of Oklahoma 817 Film-Office, Café and Hospital 963 Tom McAdams-McAdams Pipe and Supply Company H: Here in McAdams pipe and supply company in Bristow, Oklahoma we’re talking to Tom McAdams. Tom what kind of a machine is this? TM: This is a pipe threading machine with threads from five inch through eight inch. It is a Bignog Kitter machine with a tangent head on it, has the very latest in air chucks on it and has a tapered attachment on it. It’s the very latest type of pipe threading machine equipment. H: Tom this is one of three pipe threaders that you have isn’t it? TM: That is right. We can chop pipes from two inch through thirteen inch in these pipe machines. H: You have an additional [indecipherable] to the pipe threading machines here quite a supply to don’t you? TM: We have a general office supplies specializing in secondary [indecipherable] equipment primarily. We handle both new and used and reconditioned equipment. H: Now when did you start here in Bristow? TM: We came, we moved to Bristow in 1947. H: And uh how many stores do you have now? TM: We have four stores in Oklahoma, one store in Kansas. My dad and I are in business together here H: How many employees did you start with? TM: We had five employees tha- initially now we have approximately 50 employees. H: Boy that’s been quite a growth over 13 years hasn’t it? TM: That is right Kansas ; McAdams Pipe and Supply Company ; Pipe Threader ; Tom McAdams 1021 Film-Library and School Grounds 1114 Harold Sims-Bristow Superintendent H: Mr. Harold Sims has been the school teacher for 31 years. He has been in the system here in Bristow for how many years Mr. Sims? HS: Since 42 H: And you have been superintendent for the last 4 years? HS: Yes, sir. H: How many schools do you have under your jurisdiction? HS: We have three um well four of course. Two elementary schools, a junior high and a senior high school. H: And Mr. Sims what do you feel is the primary need in education circles today? HS: Well I, for Bristow schools our biggest need is to have more money and with which to employ uh teachers in special education field to take care of those marginal students who really should not be in the regular classrooms. H: It is unfair to them and to the student who are progressing uh in a normal way that they should be in that class isn’t that right? HS: That is right yes sir. H: And of course the big problem with specialized education is that it takes uh one teacher to about six or seven students HS: That’s right, yes sir. Elementary ; Harold Sims ; High School ; Junior High 1191 Mrs. Glaser-The Globe Store H: One of the pioneer stores here in Bristow is the Globe store. Mrs. Glaser(ph), your father founded this store didn’t he. MG: That’s right. H: What year? MG: In 1916 H: And then in 1920 you MG: When I got married in 1920 why we bought the store from my father H: And now you’re carrying on that tradition in that the co-owner is your son in law here, Moe, right? MG: That’s right. I hope so (laughter) H: Moe, you’re not only interested in the Globe store here but you’ve done a fine job with the Chamber of Commerce, your president of the chamber this year. You have a beautiful store and this is part of the modernization program isn’t it? ME: That’s correct. Yes, that’s correct, this is part of our faith and progress of Bristow H: Well fine, that’s just last August that you opened this remodeled store MG: Yes. Chamber of Commerce ; Globe Store ; Moe Einstein ; Mrs. Glaser 1259 R.L Rhodes-Bristow Mayor H: [Indecipherable] Rhodes has been mayor of Bristow for the past 11 months, prior to that time for 30 years he was with the Deep Rock Oil Company as superintendent of pipelines in this district. Mr. Rhodes what possessed you to run for mayor? MR: Well it was a lot of things that I figured need to be done in Bristow and I had quite a bit of time on my hand and I could make a full time mayor, something Bristow hadn’t had for years. I don’t know when there was a full time mayor for Bristow and we’re getting things done that uh need to be done. We got a bond issue coming up, we wanna get our streets fixed up and uh water system up to date and uh streets we need uh quite a bit of our streets down there and the water department both uh so good things to make time, save time and working, save labor. H: When did you first come to Bristow? MR: I came to Bristow in uh July the 19th 1914. H: What was your first job here? What did you do? MR: Well I get a look around and uh get acquainted with people, didn’t make it into this [indecipherable] where I stayed I just had a little grit with me and I had three shirts, one dirty one, one clean one and uh one on my back, that’s all I had. [Indecipherable] where I stopped and that was where I stayed all night. Deep Rock Oil Company ; Mayor ; R.L Rhodes 1365 Mr. and Mrs. Camp-Deep Rock Oil Company H: Mr. and Mrs. Camp started in the oil business in 1946 after being in the grocery business. Mrs. Camp, when did you take on the distribution of Deep Rock products? MC: In the fall of the 1956. H: You operate how many stations here in Bristow of your own? MC: Two H: And how many do you service approximately? MC: About 12 H: I understand Mr. Camp that you’re building another station, this one in Sapulpa. Is that right? MC: That’s right. H: When do you plan on opening that? MC: We’re gonna try to open it May the first. H: There was a trend a few years ago toward the 10-W-30 motor oil, it that still continuing? MC: Yes, uh to a great extent H: Does it take ; do you have a special type car normally which is best suited to that? MC: Well yes uh not necessarily but a car has got to be in good condition to uh that will require a 10-W-30 motor oil. Deep Rock Oil Company ; Mr. Camp ; Mrs. Camp 1398 Film-Churches 1502 E. Massey-Halliburton Oil Well Cementers H: Mr. Elide(ph) Massey(ph) has just reached superintendent at the Halliburton Oil Well Cementers in Bristow. Mr. Massey how many service points do you have around world? MM: We have about 282 service points in the United States and foreign countries. H: When was this one in Bristow established? MM: Um this camp was established in 1938. H: How many employees do you have here? MM: We have about 35 employees present time H: You have, you were telling me you have equipment in Russia, but do you have any men over there? MM: No, we don’t have any men over there. All of our equipment uh in countries uh like that, why we build equipment and sell it to them outright. H: But in other countries in the world you also have your men there don’t you? MM: We have men in practially all foreign countries. H: Mr. Massey I know that Bristow and talking to the folks here are very proud to have Halliburton Oil Well Cementers here as part of their community. MM: Well we are very happy to be part of the Bristow community H: Thank you very much. E. Massey ; Halliburton Oil Well Cementers ; Russia 1547 Film-Amphitheater, Pool, and Lake 1728 Ray Baker-B.F Goodrich H: We’re visiting with Mr. Ray Baker, of the B.F Goodrich store here in Bristow. Mr. Baker how long have you associated with Goodrich? RB: Since 1948 Hugh. H: How is the fourteen inch tire coming now, is it one of the most popular? RB: Its uh vastly uh taken over as your most popular tire its coming on your new automobiles, its original equipment on in low price field. H: What’s the advantage of it? RB: Uh, it lowers your frame of your automobile closer to the ground which gives the driver a better steering qualities and then also it gives you a little better ride. H: Are most tires low pressure tires these day? RB: Most tires uh what’s is uh comes on like a sound new automobiles are low pressure tires. Now you get into some of your commercial uh light equipment why uh they’re-they’re not low pressure, but even some of your uh half ton pickups coming out now are on low pressure tires which gives a little better ride even. H: What’s the most significant uh advancement you feel over the past 10 or 15 years as far as Goodrich is concerned? RB: Oh I definitely feel that the tubeless tire which is a first of B.F Goodrich has been uh has put our company on the map in the rubber business and all your other companies has followed the same trend. Appliances ; B.F Goodrich ; Ray Baker ; Tires Interviewer: Interviewee: Other Persons: Date of Interview: Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Riley Wilson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph.) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [Indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. H: [Indecipherable] Hugh H: Thank you H: Mr. Arthur Foster started with the Community State Bank in 1927 running errands, and when were you made president Mr. Foster? AF: 1954 H: And we have an old time resident here who is quite young uh in ideas maybe a little old in years but Mrs. Groom how long have you been in Bristow and do you mind telling us your age? MG: No, I' ; m 84 and I' ; m still running the hardware and furniture store and when I get old I shall retire. H: (laughter) Mr. Foster do you think you' ; ll make 84 years? I don' ; t know whether I ever will. AF: I don' ; t know ether, but I sure hope so. H: I sure hope I' ; m this young and spry when I' ; m 84 I' ; ll tell you that. AF: Well I always hoped so, Mrs. Groom was my neighbor and I always hoped that I could have the speed that she has and then the outlook on life that she has when I' ; m half that old. H: Well both of you have seen a lot of Bristow. How has the growth of Bristow compared uh this past 10 years compared to the recent 10 years? AF: In the last 10 years Bristow has grown in the way of uh housing and the volume of business has grown, the dollar volume has increased quite a bit. H: Both of the banks here have grown along with it AF: Both banks have increased their resources and uh have grown. H: Well Mr. Foster we want to thank you very much for allowing our here we live cameras to visit the Community State Bank in Bristow and it just so happened Mrs. Groom was here and we' ; re very happy for that to. Thank you very much AF: We' ; re happy to have you in town H: Thank you H: Moe Einstein is a transplanted Texan ; he came to Bristow some 10 years ago. This year was honored as president of the Chamber of Commerce. Moe, what caused you to come to Bristow, Oklahoma? ME: I married a Bristow girl and Oklahoma is my home now. H: Well that' ; s wonderful, you' ; ve uh certainly over the past 10 years done very well here and this year being honored as president of the Chamber of Commerce. Let' ; s talk a little but now about the aims of the chamber this year ME: Well we have a progressive little town here. We have some wonderful people, friendly people, we have good industrial sites. We' ; re trying to get industry to come to Bristow, and we' ; re succeeding in getting industry to come to Bristow. We feel Bristow is the hub of eastern Oklahoma roadways, we have the turnpike, we have Highway 66, 48, 27, in other words we can go North, South, East or West. H: Now a few years ago, Bristow was one of the cities, and there were many, that felt the turnpike might almost put them completely out of business. Has that happened? ME: No Hugh it hasn' ; t. H: As a matter of fact, you' ; ve gone forward since the [Indecipherable] ME: We have and we' ; re going to go forward more H: Well with men like you at the helm who have the future of Bristow at heart well I don' ; t see how it do anything but go forward. ME: No, we' ; ll-we' ; ll go forward. Uh we' ; re trying to get industry in and we' ; re succeeding at getting industry in as I said before. Last year we got SprayLine boat manufacturing company to locate here. Uh we have the industrial sites, we have the man power, we have the electricity, we have the water facilities, we have an industrial board. And we are gonna go forward. H: Fine, thank you very much. ME: Yes, thank you. H: Virgil and Earl Griffin literally grew up with Otasco. Virgil uh when did you first start to work for them? VG: In February 1938. H: And Earl when did you start? EG: June 39 I believe it was. H:Well you fellas have had quite a bit of experience with em. Actually Otasco closed this store down in what year? VG: Uh 42 due to the work conditions, [Indecipherable], and manpower along with five other stores. H: And then a little later on you and Earl uh purchased the stores and associate stores. VG: That' ; s correct, 1947, we' ; ll be here 13 years in May. H: Now its unique in that you have two stores here in Bristow across the street from each other. VG: That' ; s right. H: And uh I understand you' ; re going however to put the entire Otasco line under one roof shortly. VG: Possibly in about 12 months. S: Well fine. Earl has it been a rewarding experience for you in the last 13 years? EG: It sure has. H: Um, Virgil uh how about the associate store now uh do you feel that it offers a businessman the opportunity to be on his own and still be a part of an organization of buying? VG: Well I definitely do, I feel that uh it certainty eliminates you of a lot of salesman' ; s, and uh figuring out advertising promotions and after all they have a trained personnel to handle those things and knowing big in furniture business what that amounts to, it certainly uh well it' ; s just something you get in the average, ordinary store H: Fine. Thank you very much. Virgil and Earl Griffin, the co-owners of the associate store here in Bristow of the Oklahoma Tire and Supply Stores, Otasco. H: [Indecipherable] Cunningham was a teacher and superintendent of schools for 21 years. 5 years ago he moved to Bristow from Beggs, Oklahoma and now has the Cunningham Chevrolet Company. Mr. Cunningham that' ; s quite a chance from school teaching to the automobile business. Uh what prompted you? MC: Uh my first interest was that we might gain finically and second that we might have something more stable that we wouldn' ; t have to move around as often as superintendent of schools would move and third we had two young boys coming along that we thought would be uh given them an opportunity to learn something other than just books. H: Mr. Cunningham how is the acceptance of the 1960 Chevrolet been? MC: Uh I feel that it has been the best of any car that we' ; ve ever had since I' ; ve been in the Chevrolet business, and I' ; ve been in for 10 years' ; present time. H: Now uh you mentioned that many folks who drive the Chevrolet for the first time this year are amazed at the luxury ride they get, uh better than any previous car? MC: That' ; s right. If we can get them to take a ride in a Chevrolet and do uh the driving themselves, I' ; ll guarantee they' ; ll be satisfied with it. H: Fine, thank you. It looks like you' ; ve learned the automobile business quite well over the past few years. This is Glenn Cunningham, who has a famous name, and is a sophomore down at the University of Oklahoma. What are you studying down there Glenn? GC: I' ; m studying letters, which is comprised, its comprised of history, English and philosophy H: Preparatory to a possible teaching profession? GC: Correct or perhaps law. H: You' ; re also going out for the football team down there aren' ; t you? GC: Yes, sir. H: What do you think your changes are? Pretty confident? GC: Well it' ; s pretty tough, I hope to get a place on this next year. H: How does the squad look? GC: I think we look real well .H: [Indecipherable] What one more week before? GC: We have one more week before the varsity [Indecipherable] game H: Good luck Glen. Well we wanna wish you the best of luck down here [Indecipherable] GC: Thank you very much H: Mr. Cunningham we want to wish you the best of luck for many many more years here at Cunningham Chevrolet. MC: Thank you. People have been very nice to us here at Bristow. We appreciate the business we' ; ve had. H: Thank you H: Here in McAdams pipe and supply company in Bristow, Oklahoma we' ; re talking to Tom McAdams. Tom what kind of a machine is this? TM: This is a pipe threading machine with threads from five inch through eight inch. It is a [Indecipherable] machine with a tangent head on it, has the very latest in air chucks on it and has a tapered attachment on it. It' ; s the very latest type of pipe threading machine equipment. H: Tom this is one of three pipe threaders that you have isn' ; t it? TM: That is right. We can chop pipes from two inch through thirteen inch in these pipe machines. H: You have an additional [Indecipherable] to the pipe threading machines here quite a supply to don' ; t you? TM: We have a general office supplies specializing in secondary [Indecipherable] equipment primarily. We handle both new and used and reconditioned equipment. H: Now when did you start here in Bristow? TM: We came, we moved to Bristow in 1947. H: And uh how many stores do you have now? TM: We have four stores in Oklahoma, one store in Kansas. My dad and I are in business together here H: How many employees did you start with? TM: We had five employees tha- initially now we have approximately 50 employees. H: Boy that' ; s been quite a growth over 13 years hasn' ; t it? TM: That is right H: Well Tom uh we' ; ll look at some of the other operations, this is just one of the many operations that you have here in the McAdams Pipe and Supply Company isn' ; t it? TM: That is correct. We have pipe testing equipment, all kinds of general office supplies H: Thank you very much H: Mr. Harold Sims has been the school teacher for 31 years. He has been in the system here in Bristow for how many years Mr. Sims? HS: Since 42 H: And you have been superintendent for the last 4 years? HS: Yes, sir. H: How many schools do you have under your jurisdiction? HS: We have three um well four of course. Two elementary schools, a junior high and a senior high school. H: And Mr. Sims what do you feel is the primary need in education circles today? HS: Well I, for Bristow schools our biggest need is to have more money and with which to employ uh teachers in special education field to take care of those marginal students who really should not be in the regular classrooms. H: It is unfair to them and to the student who are progressing uh in a normal way that they should be in that class isn' ; t that right? HS: That is right yes sir. H: And of course the big problem with specialized education is that it takes uh one teacher to about six or seven students HS: That' ; s right, yes sir. H: And that becomes quite uh expensive, but it you find more students who have that problem today than 10 years ago don' ; t you? HS: Yes, we have been told um that that number is increasing and we think so by observing their own schools. H: Well Mr. Sims we certainly hope that in the future the population of this city and many cities throughout the nation will see fit to provide adequate financing for this specialized type of education because it certainly on the upsurge, there' ; s no question about that. HS: Right. H: Thank you very much. HS: Yes, sir. H: One of the pioneer stores here in Bristow is the Globe store. Mrs. Glaser(ph), your father founded this store didn' ; t he? MG: That' ; s right. H: What year? MG: In 1916 H: And then in 1920 you MG: When I got married in 1920 why we bought the store from my father H: And now you' ; re carrying on that tradition in that the co-owner is your son in law here, Moe, right? MG: That' ; s right. I hope so (laughter) H: Moe, you' ; re not only interested in the Globe store here but you' ; ve done a fine job with the Chamber of Commerce, your president of the chamber this year. You have a beautiful store and this is part of the modernization program isn' ; t it? ME: That' ; s correct. Yes, that' ; s correct, this is part of our faith and progress of Bristow H: Well fine, that' ; s just last August that you opened this remodeled store MG: Yes. H: And have you always been an exclusively ladies store? MG: No we weren' ; t, up until uh 1929 we weren' ; t. When we opened, we started in 1932 turning it into a ladies store, exclusively a ladies' ; store. H: You' ; ve certainly done a great job over the years MG: I think we have a beautiful store H: Yes, you certainly do. And folk may we suggest that you visit the Globe store here in Bristow, and visit with Mrs. Glaser and Moe here and all of the other fine folks. H: [Indecipherable] Rhodes has been mayor of Bristow for the past 11 months, prior to that time for 30 years he was with the Deep Rock Oil Company as superintendent of pipelines in this district. Mr. Rhodes what possessed you to run for mayor? MR: Well it was a lot of things that I figured need to be done in Bristow and I had quite a bit of time on my hand and I could make a full time mayor, something Bristow hadn' ; t had for years. I don' ; t know when there was a full time mayor for Bristow and we' ; re getting things done that uh need to be done. We got a bond issue coming up, we wanna get our streets fixed up and uh water system up to date and uh streets we need uh quite a bit of our streets down there and the water department both uh so good things to make time, save time and working, save labor. H: When did you first come to Bristow? MR: I came to Bristow in uh July the 19th 1914. H: What was your first job here? What did you do? MR: Well I get a look around and uh get acquainted with people, didn' ; t make it into this [Indecipherable] where I stayed I just had a little grit with me and I had three shirts, one dirty one, one clean one and uh one on my back, that' ; s all I had. [Indecipherable] where I stopped and that was where I stayed all night. H: Mr. and Mrs. Camp started in the oil business in 1946 after being in the grocery business. Mrs. Camp, when did you take on the distribution of Deep Rock products? MC: In the fall of the 1956. H: You operate how many stations here in Bristow of your own? MC: Two H: And how many do you service approximately? MC: About 12 H: I understand Mr. Camp that you' ; re building another station, this one in Sapulpa. Is that right? MC: That' ; s right. H: When do you plan on opening that? MC: We' ; re gonna try to open it May the first. H: There was a trend a few years ago toward the 10-W-30 motor oil, it that still continuing? MC: Yes, uh to a great extent H: Does it take ; do you have a special type car normally which is best suited to that? MC: Well yes uh not necessarily but a car has got to be in good condition to uh that will require a 10-W-30 motor oil. H: Now in the dead of Summer many people say I use 20 weight all year round actually they should use a about a 30 sometimes even a 40 weight shouldn' ; t they? MC: Well uh in heavier, heavy equipment, or heavy trucks it' ; d be uh that would be okay to use a heavier oil H: We wanna thank you very much Mr. and Mrs. Camp for visiting with us on " ; Here we Live" ; and you folks are in Bristow be sure and stop by at either of the two fine Deep Rock stations here or the new station soon to be open in Sapulpa. H: Mr. Elide(ph) Massey(ph) has just reached superintendent at the Halliburton Oil Well Cementers in Bristow. Mr. Massey how many service points do you have around world? MM: We have about 282 service points in the United States and foreign countries. H: When was this one in Bristow established? MM: Um this camp was established in 1938. H: How many employees do you have here? MM: We have about 35 employees present time H: You have, you were telling me you have equipment in Russia, but do you have any men over there? MM: No, we don' ; t have any men over there. All of our equipment uh in countries uh like that, why we build equipment and sell it to them outright. H: But in other countries in the world you also have your men there don' ; t you? MM: We have men in practically all foreign countries. H: Mr. Massey I know that Bristow and talking to the folks here are very proud to have Halliburton Oil Well Cementers here as part of their community. MM: Well we are very happy to be part of the Bristow community H: Thank you very much. H: We' ; re visiting with Mr. Ray Baker, of the B.F Goodrich store here in Bristow. Mr. Baker how long have you associated with Goodrich? RB: Since 1948 Hugh. H: How is the fourteen inch tire coming now, is it one of the most popular? RB: Its uh vastly uh taken over as your most popular tire its coming on your new automobiles, its original equipment on in low price field. H: What' ; s the advantage of it? RB: Uh, it lowers your frame of your automobile closer to the ground which gives the driver a better steering qualities and then also it gives you a little better ride. H: Are most tires low pressure tires these day? RB: Most tires uh what' ; s is uh comes on like a sound new automobiles are low pressure tires. Now you get into some of your commercial uh light equipment why uh they' ; re-they' ; re not low pressure, but even some of your uh half ton pickups coming out now are on low pressure tires which gives a little better ride even. H: What' ; s the most significant uh advancement you feel over the past 10 or 15 years as far as Goodrich is concerned? RB: Oh I definitely feel that the tubeless tire which is a first of B.F Goodrich has been uh has put our company on the map in the rubber business and all your other companies has followed the same trend. H: You' ; re selling a lot of nylon tires today? RB: The nylon are-is getting more and pop-more popular all the time and it' ; s taken over uh I' ; d say over the rayon. Now it hasn' ; t come out on original equipments yet, but been some talk of it coming out and I think possibly in the near future it will be. H: Thank you very much. Folks when you' ; re in the need of tires, or television or any of the other fine appliances that are sold here at B.F Goodrich be sure to stop by and see Mr. Baker and all of the other fine folks who serve you here at the B.F Goodrich store in Bristow, Oklahoma. End video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP_0002_V_1959_Bristow_Here_We_Live.xml OHP_0002_V_1959_Bristow_Here_We_Live.xml
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Bristow Here We Live
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Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster
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Edith Mills
Lucy Mae Mills
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0020 Edith and Lucy Mae Mills OHP-0020 0:00-1:04:33 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Edith Mills Lucy Mae Mills Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster MP3 1:|58(8)|72(3)|106(10)|133(8)|165(7)|198(17)|246(8)|287(13)|328(2)|363(6)|404(3)|463(5)|491(9)|531(10)|562(3)|598(5)|607(8)|629(2)|681(3)|738(8)|756(4)|791(2)|818(9)|828(5)|856(5)|902(3)|946(11)|971(11)|990(8)|1043(2)|1080(8)|1096(16)|1135(9)|1168(6)|1213(14)|1253(10)|1284(6)|1322(2)|1380(9)|1418(1)|1438(10)|1458(6)|1503(5)|1537(10)|1559(2)|1587(8)|1644(1)|1659(5)|1700(6)|1725(7)|1754(6)|1788(11)|1817(10)|1845(2)|1876(2)|1912(2)|1965(2)|2010(8)|2041(10)|2080(10)|2122(11)|2149(9)|2183(10)|2207(1) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0020 Mills, Edith & ; Lucy Mae.mp3 Other audio 451 Introduction and History Read Aloud NF : Ms. Mills , we’re so happy that you had us today. Let us come and talk to you about this, because I have a feeling you have information and things that happened that maybe nobody else that we’ve come in contact with would even know. EM: I’ll read this first and see if there’s anything before you record. NF: Okay. EM: Now well, I didn’t know whether you don’t need to leave Mr. Mills name or anything like that but that’s what I had on the recording— NF: Uh-huh. EM: I mean on my history. He came here to this area in 1890 from Guthrie and he helped lay the Frisco Railroad road bed. He— by hauling ties with his mule team, between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. They— he and his brother— first his two brothers and one brother dropped out. They lived on deer meat and wild turkey which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door. They hated to kill the deer because they came up for salt— NF: Mm-hmm. EM: —and they could just rope them and they had their deer meat. NF: Wow. EM: Or salt and let’s see— which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door for salt and the wild turkeys roosted in trees at night. They’d catch all they wanted at night. Indians taught them how to make (Indecipherable) from corn. So they had plenty of meat and then they had the (Indecipherable) that the Indians taught them to make. Then here in Bristow, I had a note here on the old Skinner Barn was located right down here. Arthur Foster ; Claire Diehl ; Country Club ; Edith Abbott ; Ethan Mills ; Frisco Railroad ; Guthrie ; JC Penny ; Mr. Meirs ; Ms. Fox ; Oil Field ; Oklahoma City ; Ranny Foster ; Skinner Barn ; Superstitious ; Tulsa https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158473193/nancy-carolyn-foster Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330257/edith-n.-mills Edith N. Stansbury Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330447/ethan-a.-mills Ethan A. Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184927/arthur-morgan-foster Arthur Morgan Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22434083/ranny-foster Ranny Morgan Foster https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/188777833/claire-edith-diehl Claire Edith Foster Diehl https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/19551981/edith-edna-abbott Edith Edna Morgan Abbott 640 3A and 4B NF: Ms. Mills where was the school in which you taught here in Bristow? EM: Where was what? NF: Where was the school where you taught? Where was it located. EM: Oh, it was an old building. It’s been torn down. NF: Was it up here at Washington? EM: No. NF: Over— EM: It was across it. NF: Across it on the other side? EM: That’s right. NF: Yeah. Did you have a number of grades in one room? Or were there enough children to have a teacher for each grade? EM: Let me tell you, I had sixty in one room. WS: Oh! EM: I had sixty and they were mixed. I had a few colored too. Jack Abraham ; Mrs. Gee ; Old Brother Morgan ; Ray Powers https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624787/jack-abraham Jack Abraham https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330206/raymond-l.-power Raymond L. " ; Ray" ; Power 847 First Home and Carnegie Library NF: Did you live in town here in Bristow, or did you live out on the ranch? When you and Mr. Mills married. EM: Oh, well I was living with my aunt— NF: No, but I mean when you married Mr. Mills did you— did you— was your home here in town? LM: Across the street. EM: No. NF: Across the street. EM: Oh, across the street. NF: Yeah, uh-huh. EM: You mean our first home? NF: Your first home, yes. EM: Uh-huh. NF: Yeah. Anna Bullington ; Baptist Church ; Burnett ; California ; Carnegie Library ; City Library ; George Bullington ; Mr. Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/140585804/george-e.-bullington George E. Bullington https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/224757804/anna-e.-bullington Anna E. Bullington 1104 The Depression Era and Mrs. Roosevelts Visit NF: Do you remember many things of The Depression era? Now that’s dropping back more to the present. EM: What years was it? NF: Well, what were they? Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-three? WS: Twenty-nine probably— NF: Twenty-nine. WS: —when it started. EM: Well I’d have to— (Chuckling) EM: —think quite a— quite a lot if I remember— if I do remember anything I— NF: I remember when I first came to Bristow in thirty-five, we were fairly close— close to the railroad, and men were turning— would often turn up at the back door wanting to be fed. EM: Oh. NF: But you may have been far enough from the railroad they didn’t come here. EM: No I had— I had some. Creek ; Indians ; Mr. Black ; Mrs. Roosevelt ; Oral Roberts ; Railroad ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; Youth Center ; Yuchi 1413 Mr. Mills Pioneer Log Cabin and The Commonality of Tuberculosis LM: Mother had been working with the NRA and the something then hadn’t you mother? She had been working on a lot of those things. NF: Oh. EM: I’ve worked on so many things, I’ve forgotten (chuckling) NF: Yeah. EM: So, yes I was— NF: I remember those young men lived out at the Youth Center and made furniture— EM: Yes. NF: If I remember right. EM: Mm-hmm. Yes. NF: Now whose cabin is this? EM: This is Mr. Mills pioneer log cabin. NF: Oh my! EM: That is Mr. Mills standing there— NF: Yeah. EM: —and that’s me. I preferred to sit down and be out of the picture. NF: Yeah. EM: So (Chuckling) NF: Well now, is this a breezeway between it or is it just a— EM: A breezeway— Chandler ; Diphtheria ; Guthrie ; Indian Territory ; Iowa ; Mills Chapel ; Mr. Mills ; Nashville, Tennessee ; Nells Chapel ; NRA ; Small Pox ; Tuberculosis ; Youth Center 1776 Clubs, Catalogs, and Cotton WS: Now did you help organize the Culture Club? EM: Let me see, did I or did I not? If I didn’t, I was right— the next one— I was right close because so many people thought that I did. So I don’t know whether I was in the first organization or not. Mrs. Cheeton (ph) was the main go ahead in the— WS: The Embroidery Club and the Culture Club were the— LM: There used to be a Dalcam (ph) society here years ago. WS: Yes, that was after that. Uh-huh. LM: Was it after, well I didn’t know when— WS: My mother and Ms. Lefflar (ph) I know. I can remember— the volumes you see in the libraries. UI: Uh-huh WS: Dalcam (ph) EM: Your mother was very active in everything. She helped a lot to build Bristow beginning and— WS: Well it’s a wonder with five children that she had the— (Laughter) EM: Well yes! And believe me, they weren’t just children, they were busy bodies. Those twins (Chuckling). I went there to— George McMillian (ph) was having a demonstration of this new kind of washer. You know the kind that kind of tipped forward and over a hump. I don’t know whether you remember it or not. And they couldn’t— you couldn’t step one way or the other without stepping on one of those twins. American National Bank ; Burmont Oil Company ; Carson Pirie Scott ; Chicago ; Cotton ; Dalcam Club ; Embroidery Club ; George McMillian ; Mrs. Cheeton ; Ms. Lefflar ; Oil Business ; Oil Field ; Old Skinner Barn ; Safeway ; The Culture Club ; Wagon 1964 A Picture Worth More than 1000 Dollars EM: Here’s a sweet picture. That’s Jack Abraham . He was one of my pets, but people didn’t know it. (Laughter) NF: Oh, isn’t he cute! LM: That’s the one that brought the apple everyday wasn’t it? EM: Huh? LM: He was the one that brought the apple to the teacher. EM: He brought an apple every day. NF: Ah! EM: Everyday an apple. NF: (Indecipherable) EM: He was a darling student. He wasn’t spoiled! He didn’t— he scarcely ever do anything wrong. Jack was ideal. NF: Well. Well, he’s a cute little boy. I had a little Thompson (ph) last year that looks an awful lot like him. She’d be a great niece. She’s— EM: Oh. NF: She’s— her daddy lives down in this Spanish style house down here. What’s that Abraham— LM: Gene (ph)? Gene Thompson (ph)? Oh, Herby (ph). NF: Herby! She’s Herby’s granddaughter. Bristow Historical Society ; Gene Thompson ; Herby Abraham ; Jack Abraham ; Lucy West ; Mrs. Dye ; Mrs. Mcclendon ; Orval Eden ; Ruth Appleview ; The Bristow Enterprise ; The Bristow Record https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/609440/viola-dye Viola Dye https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/230577892/lucy-clay-west Lucy Clay Longacre West 2117 The Pony Express to Phillipsburg LM: You need to tell them that dad used to run the Pony Express to Phillipsburg. NF: Oh really! EM: What? LM: He used to run that Pony Express from Phillipsburg. EM: Oh. NF: Pony Express. EM: Ethan did, yes. He rode the Pony Express for years to Phillipsburg. There was no Slick then and very few people know about Phillipsburg. NF: Arthur was telling us yesterday lunch that there was a Phillipsburg and was the other Robertsburg (ph)? He gave about three or four community names that I have never hear of. EM: Well the mail— Ethan took the mail just to Phillipsburg. NF: To Phillipsburg, and that was near Slick? EM: Yes. LM: About a mile and a half west of Slick, but they say the foundations are still out there. NF: Oh. Chandler ; Livery Stable ; Mr. Holocomb ; Phillipsburg ; Pony Express ; Robertsburg ; Sac and Fox ; Shamrock ; Slick ; Stillwater 2265 Wild Game and Snake Indians WS: There was plenty of wild game too in that time. EM: Oh yes! WS: You outta see, talk about the turkeys and the deer and oh, they just must have been so much. EM: The deer would come up to the door for salt and you just felt guilty capturing them when they were so tame. NF: Uh- huh. EM: And the wild turkeys— LM: (Inaudible) EM: Oh (Chuckling) an explosion! NF: Okay. EM: They’ve been blasting. I’ve heard at the noon hour. NF: Hmm. EM: Yes, those wild turkeys, you could just go out and sit out any night and make the trees and just choose whatever bird you wanted. NF: Now the buffalo had— if there had ever been here, were long gone weren’t they— by that time. EM: Yes. Buffalo ; Clad Purdy ; Deer ; Indians ; Snake Indian ; Turkey ; Wild Game 2663 The Building of Home WS: And did you always live in town? Or did you live out on the ranch? EM: We lived across the street. WS: Oh across the street. EM: Yes. WS: Uh-huh. EM: Ethan’s first wife and family lived out there on what we call the Home Place. WS: Mm-hmm. LM: It’s where Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph) live— were living now. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Just a little bit south of— NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. LM: That’s where I was born and Ernest was born. EM: They still have the old Home Place, but they’ve built a new— Mr. Jackson (ph) built a new house for the— what’s their names? Claude Freeland ; Ekdahl House ; Ernest Mills ; L.LCurl ; Leonard Martin ; McMillian House ; Mills Chapel Schoolhouse ; Mr. Jackson ; Mr. Owens ; The Great Depression ; The Old Home Place ; World War I ; World War II https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330445/ernest-h-mills Ernest H. Mills 2993 Excitement in Bristow NF: Can you think of anytime in Bristow that there was a real exciting time? How about when the refinery caught on fire. Do you remember that? EM: Yes, I remember. But there wasn’t— it didn’t seem to me like there was a terrible lot of excitement about it that I recall. EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE EM: The most exciting days were when the school building burned up here and when Eleanor Roosevelt came to town. (Laughter) EM: I think— I think Eleanor’s visit was the most exciting. NF: Yeah. WS: Do you recall that wreck out there close to Heyburn? Two trains, you see. EM: Oh railroad. WS: Railroad wreck. EM: I don’t recall. Chandler ; Cyclone ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Glen Acres ; Heyburn ; Kansas ; McAlister ; Mills Chapel ; Miss Sneed ; Nellie West ; Oklahoma City ; Railroad ; The Great Depression ; Train ; Tulsa https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/189646870/nellie-a-west Nellie A Rhoads West 3229 Baking and Preserving During The Great Depression EM: During the Depression in the Depression days, you couldn’t— I guess you’d call that Depression days, you couldn’t get flour. Couldn’t get whole— whole— or white flour. WS: Yes. EM: And my— Ethan’s mother would— she baked a lot and she wouldn’t use that new kind of flour at all. So I loaded up a fifty-pound sack, put it in a gunny sack, and boarded the train and took her a sack of flour (chuckling) NF: Oh! EM: But was she happy. She was really happy. LM: To Chandler. EM: Chandler, yes. NF: Yeah. WS: That was hard for us to get accustomed to, I recall— EM: Oh! WS: —you took flour you know because— EM: You recall. WS: Yes. EM: Those were pinchy days. We didn’t bake. We quit baking much of anything. Biscuits, white loaves, (Indecipherable Chandler ; Ethan Mills ; Preserves ; The Great Depression 3440 Clothing Making and Shopping NF: Well about their clothing now, did women made most of their own clothing in those days? They didn’t buy readymade dresses and— EM: No. They didn’t. They didn’t have very many for sale in small towns. In large cities I suppose they had plenty. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But they didn’t have very many small towns. NF: Did you have a town dress maker or did everybody sew for herself. EM: (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph) was the town dress maker and she— people who wanted good things went to (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph). NF: Well now, this is before she worked in the post office? EM: Yes. NF: I just supposed she’d been always worked in the post office. Well. EM: No for years— LM: She used to have a shop up there in the old stone building. EM: She made all of Lucy Mae’s clothes for years. LM: I still have the top to a real pretty white wool. Had an accordion pleated skirt that was an old white wool, had the fine lace all around. Clothing ; Dress Maker ; Ethan Mills ; Hookens Hotel ; Main Street ; Mr. Jackson ; Mrs. Klingensmith ; Oklahoma City ; Taxi ; Train 3872 College and Education in Bristow NF: Well I remember the first teachers meeting I went to. We went to Tulsa on the train. EM: You did? The first teachers meeting was in Tulsa? NF: Well after I started teaching— yeah. EM: (Indecipherable talking in background) LM: After she started teaching— NF: Uh-huh. Thirty-one years ago. The first time— EM: Oh! NF: —the first state teachers meeting happened to be in Tulsa that year, and we went up on the train. EM: Oh. Old timers. NF: Uh-huh. (Chuckling) LM: When I went to school I went on the train to Chicago and to Chicago changed over to— to Madison. NF: Where did you go, Lucy Mae? LM: Wisconsin. Bristow Junior College ; Chicago ; Christmas ; E.H. Black ; Ethan Mills ; Kansas City ; Madison Wisconsin ; Ms. McCormick ; Music Club ; Navy ; Oklahoma A& ; M ; Railroad ; Train ; Tulsa ; University of Wisconsin ; Water Wells Interviewer: Nancy Carolyn Camp Foster (NF) Interviewee: Edith Mills (EM) Other Persons: Lucy Mae Mills (LM) Unknown Woman (WS) Date of Interview: Unknown Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. (Indecipherable) NF: Ms. Mills, we' ; re so happy that you had us today. Let us come and talk to you about this, because I have a feeling you have information and things that happened that maybe nobody else that we' ; ve come in contact with would even know. EM: I' ; ll read this first and see if there' ; s anything before you record. NF: Okay. EM: Now well, I didn' ; t know whether you don' ; t need to leave Mr. Mills name or anything like that but that' ; s what I had on the recording-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: I mean on my history. He came here to this area in 1890 from Guthrie and he helped lay the Frisco Railroad road bed. He-- by hauling ties with his mule team, between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. They-- he and his brother-- first his two brothers and one brother dropped out. They lived on deer meat and wild turkey which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door. They hated to kill the deer because they came up for salt-- NF: Mm-hmm. EM: --and they could just rope them and they had their deer meat. NF: Wow. EM: Or salt and let' ; s see-- which were plentiful. The deer came up to the door for salt and the wild turkeys roosted in trees at night. They' ; d catch all they wanted at night. Indians taught them how to make (Indecipherable) from corn. So they had plenty of meat and then they had the (Indecipherable) that the Indians taught them to make. Then here in Bristow, I had a note here on the old Skinner Barn was located right down here. NF: Now that would be here on Chestnut? EM: Yeah, on Walnut Street. LM: First. NF: On Walnut. EM: And Main. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Mainly on Walnut and Main. NF: Walnut and Main. EM: Old Skinner Barn. NF: Now was that a livery stable thing or a barn to store stuff? EM: For oil field-- NF: Oh-- EM: --hauling. NF: Yeah. EM: It was mules-- mules mainly. No trucks in those days. They located at Fourth and Washington Street that is right down here one block. This was before the trucks took over. Horses were then the only means of transportation. Another location was between Chestnut and Oak. They had one right here. NF: Uh-huh. EM: And located the large one between Chestnut and Oak. Mr Meirs, M-E-I-R-S I think it was spelled, operated that out there. And that' ; s just about all I had. I might be able to answer some questions but I don' ; t know. NF: Well when did you come into this area? EM: What did you say? NF: When did you come into this-- EM: 1915. NF: In 1915. EM: Mm-hmm. I came here to teach, I taught school. NF: Yeah. EM: Came here to teach. Well, I came to visit my uncle and aunt. I was going to take a year' ; s vacation. I thought I needed it. I had taught-- let' ; s see, I' ; d taught six or seven years at that time, I think seven years. And I thought I needed a vacation, so I came here but they needed a teacher (Chuckling). I broke the rule. NF: (Chuckling) EM: And we taught not very long. Ms. Fox (ph) took my place. I met Ethan and we were married in February (Chuckling). I had taught from September to February-- NF: Wow! EM: --and was married. NF: Yeah. WS: February 1916, huh? EM:19-- I came here in 1915-- WS: But you married in 1916? EM: That' ; s right. LM: Fifteen-- NF: Well I remember the first time-- EM: February the 13th. NF: February the-- (Chuckling) EM: The way that I know-- (Chuckling) -- he almost passed out because he was so superstitious and I never was about anything. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But it was February the 13th like it or not. NF: (Chuckling) WS: My mother was superstitious that way too. I think that was-- that' ; s Syrian. Mm-hm. EM: I think it' ; s too bad because it gives you a lot of unhappiness that' ; s unnecessary. LM: Yes! Yes! (Laughter) EM: But that' ; s sad. I wouldn' ; t have thought, your mother' ; s so happy go lucky I wouldn' ; t have thought she was superstitious at all! She was one of the happiest persons I' ; ve ever met. NF: Yeah. EM: Liked to meet and be around. I worked on the country club. WS: I recall that you worked on the country club cook book with her-- EM: -- together. WS: Mm-hmm. EM: Crowd had such a good time. NF: Well a long time ago, when I first came to Bristow, I met you in JCPenny' ; s store. And I had my daughter Claire in the buggy pushing her, and I think that was the first time we met and you said then that you had known Arthur and Louis' ; s (ph) mother quite well. EM: Oh my, yes. We were very dear friends. NF: Well. Well, that' ; s good. Interesting to me because I didn' ; t ever get to know her of course. EM: Ranny? NF: Uh-huh. EM: Yes. She was a precious person. NF: Well. EM: Wonderful person. NF: Yeah. EM: And I knew her sister too, but-- NF: Edith, yeah. EM: Ranny was-- really came in before her sister-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --did. Yes, she was a wonderful person. You don' ; t see people-- or meet them very often like Ranny Foster. NF: Yeah. EM: She was a doll. NF: Well, that always makes me happy to hear things like that because I' ; ve never felt that I' ; ve known her, you know? We loved Aunt Edith so-- EM: Oh well yes! This Ranny was absolutely without fault. You couldn' ; t find a-- NF: Well. EM: --fault of any kind with Ranny. Not any, she just is a doll. NF: Well EM: You' ; re just kind of ruining your mommies-- (Chuckling) LM: Here come here. EM: --dress. Why don' ; t you get down hmm? I put a chain on her so she wouldn' ; t be too friendly. She runs and gets on the company' ; s lap. She thinks they' ; ll be friendly but she thinks theres the least doubt shes apt to bit em' ; . (Laughter) EM: Get the first bite. NF: Ms. Mills where was the school in which you taught here in Bristow? EM: Where was what? NF: Where was the school where you taught? Where was it located. EM: Oh, it was an old building. It' ; s been torn down. NF: Was it up here at Washington? EM: No. NF: Over-- EM: It was across it. NF: Across it on the other side? EM: That' ; s right. NF: Yeah. Did you have a number of grades in one room? Or were there enough children to have a teacher for each grade? EM: Let me tell you, I had sixty in one room. WS: Oh! EM: I had sixty and they were mixed. I had a few colored too. NF: Yeah. EM: Yes. Some school-- LM: What grades did you teach? EM: --and you remember the old man Morgan (ph)? That lived out-- NF: Oh Brother Morgan (ph)-- EM: Yes. NF: --the one they called Old Brother Morgan (ph)? EM: Brother Morgan. I had his son. NF: Well. LM: You had Jack Abraham didn' ; t you, grandma? EM: I had to send Brother Morgan' ; s (ph) son home to take a bath once or twice. (Laughter) EM: (Indecipherable) There might be some relatives around, I don' ; t know. But they were nice people. NF: Uh-huh. EM: They-- I' ; d take that they was just careless with the boy. I think he-- NF: Well he may have hid out on bath night too. (Chuckling) EM: That' ; s right. NF: Boys are still like that sometimes. EM: Oh yes, boys are boys. Can' ; t make anything else out of them. WS: Now what grade was that-- did you attend-- EM: When I came here, I came to visit my uncle and aunt. And the vacancy occurred in the 3A and 4B grades. And I filled out until I-- NF: So those were not kids from grade one through six, they were grades in the third and fourth grade. EM: 3A and 4B-- NF: And you had sixty? EM: Had sixty. NF: Well Bristow was evidently growing. EM: Yes. NF: Fast at that time-- EM: And there was another teacher over here that had the same grade. Mrs. Gee (ph). G double E. NF: Yeah. WS: Hmm. EM: She was a very good teacher. Very good. LM: She had the same grade on this side of town? EM: Yes. LM: You had two elementary schools then? EM: At one time we did. Now I wouldn' ; t say that they kept that up, but at one time there was, and I' ; m quite sure. We had a good superintendent, he was so sharp. NF: Uh-huh. EM: What was his name? And what was it-- Oh my stars. He passed away not too long ago. The principal-- WS: Ray Powers? EM: Ray Powers. WS: Mm-hmm. EM: That' ; s right. Everybody liked Ray. He wasn' ; t very much on discipline (Chuckling) but he was a good ole boy. We all liked him. WS: He was my first teacher. EM: Really? WS: Mm-hmm. Sixth grade. Over there at that school. EM: Well I declare. Well we all liked Ray. NF: Did you live in town here in Bristow, or did you live out on the ranch? When you and Mr. Mills married. EM: Oh, well I was living with my aunt-- NF: No, but I mean when you married Mr. Mills did you-- did you-- was your home here in town? LM: Across the street. EM: No. NF: Across the street. EM: Oh, across the street. NF: Yeah, uh-huh. EM: You mean our first home? NF: Your first home, yes. EM: Uh-huh. NF: Yeah. EM: Across the street. LM: Mr. and Ms. Bullington were living with him before you were married weren' ; t they? EM: Oh yes, he lived with Bullington. NF: With George and-- EM: George. NF: Oh-- EM: And Anna. NF: George and Anna. EM: Yes. Yes. He lived with them. NF: Well. EM: And then I lived with em for a little while-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --until they found another location that they liked. NF: Uh-huh. Well. EM: They' ; re good people, George and Anna. NF: Yes. We loved them too. In fact, our son, George is named after-- EM: Oh really? NF: After George Bullington. EM: Well. LM: Hmm. EM: We like George ; in fact, we' ; ve got to see George pretty soon. NF: (Chuckling) Well George will be back from vacation-- EM: Oh he' ; s gone? NF: --this weekend. He' ; s been to Cal-- he' ; s been in California. EM: Oh! Well I' ; m glad to know that, I won' ; t bother to make an appointment until-- until I know he' ; s back. NF: Yeah. So you just taught the one term then. EM: Not a whole term. NF: Not even a whole term? EM: Hmm-nnNF: Yeah. EM: I just-- I was just filling in. NF: Uh-huh. Filling-- EM: Anyway, you know. And I just-- I didn' ; t come here to teach. NF: Uh-huh. Well has the-- now when did the Baptist Church move where it is now. The Bap-- was it Baptist Church there on ninth? EM: I was going-- I joined the Baptist Church down there in that old church building down on the other corner. NF: Oh! Uh-huh. EM: Mr. Mills joined up here at this location. NF: Uh-huh. Yeah. EM: Yes. We had quite a busy life. Different ways. NF: Now you-- you helped start the city library too, did you not? WS: Yes! EM: Yes, let me see. I was-- did I or did I not-- anyway, we organized. NF: Uh-huh. EM: It had been helter-skelter and we organized the-- got it organized and going in the right direction, I would say. NF: There had-- there had been books to check out-- EM: Oh yes. NF: --before that time. EM: It had been a library before my time. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But it didn' ; t have much of an organization. Burnett (ph) was a wonderful person-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --to work with. NF: Uh-huh. WS: Did Carnegie give the money for the building? Wasn' ; t it called the Carnegie Library? Didn' ; t he give the-- EM: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t think that-- WS: I don' ; t remember whether it was for the building or for books or something, but I thought he helped. EM: They may have-- we (indecipherable) Carnegie donation. I had forgotten about that, but the records would show. But I' ; ve really forgotten. NF: Do you remember many things of The Depression era? Now that' ; s dropping back more to the present. EM: What years was it? NF: Well, what were they? Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-three? WS: Twenty-nine probably-- NF: Twenty-nine. WS: --when it started. EM: Well I' ; d have to-- (Chuckling) EM: --think quite a-- quite a lot if I remember-- if I do remember anything I-- NF: I remember when I first came to Bristow in thirty-five, we were fairly close-- close to the railroad, and men were turning-- would often turn up at the back door wanting to be fed. EM: Oh. NF: But you may have been far enough from the railroad they didn' ; t come here. EM: No I had-- I had some. NF: Did you? EM: Yep. Yes, I had a few I recall. NF: And I wondered if you remembered about the-- anything about the soup kitchen that I' ; ve heard Arthur say that his dad helped organize downtown where different restaurant owners gave leftovers and groceries. And they fixed a soup I guess it was and gave to anybody-- EM: Yes. NF: --who needed food. EM: And some people donated different things. Some delicacies and-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --some just plain food. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Different people donated but I didn' ; t know very much about the soup kitchen, really. NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. EM: Didn' ; t hear very much about it. NF: I don' ; t think it lasted too long until government stepped in and began to do things. Well you' ; ve really lived in a period where you' ; ve seen it grow from a sure enough pioneer times to-- EM: Oh, yes! NF: --we' ; re about to be a metropolis I guess! (Chuckling) EM: And Mr. Mills really came in in the very early times and there was only two-- he heard-- he and another fellow were the only two white men in this whole area and he never met any other white men. He tried his best but he couldn' ; t. And the Indians, the Yuchi and Creek were very friendly-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --and he loved them all and they loved him. So it was a-- the stories he had to tell were very, very interesting. I got left out of this picture, I was co-hostess with Mr. Black (ph) when I was-- I guess you' ; d call it co-hostess. He was host and I was co, and they left me out of the picture and set me right there. They wanted to get the men. NF: Oh! EM: Over here and that is Mrs. Roosevelts visit. NF: Oh, that' ; s the time Mrs. Roosevelt came to-- EM: Yes. Mr. Black (ph) and I were on the committee, Receiving Committee. NF: Well, now that' ; s interesting. EM: I didn' ; t want to serve, but Mr. Black (ph) just absolutely forced me into it and so that was that. But she was a very gracious person, but I' ; ll never forget her eyes. She and who else-- I believe its Oral Roberts, someone I' ; ve met seemed to be looking way, way. They don' ; t see anything around them, they see way, way beyond. I' ; ll never forget those eyes. Wonderful eyes. NF: Well I barely remember ; we were-- we went out when-- didn' ; t she dedicate the Youth Center out on the hill? EM: That' ; s-- NF: As I remember, she had on a lovely, blue, medium blue colored, suit. Do you remember the-- EM: Yes. NF: Uh-huh. Such a pretty blue. LM: Very nice. EM: It-- it looked so nice on her. NF: Mm-hmm-- LM: Mother had been working with the NRA and the something then hadn' ; t you mother? She had been working on a lot of those things. NF: Oh. EM: I' ; ve worked on so many things, I' ; ve forgotten (chuckling) NF: Yeah. EM: So, yes I was-- NF: I remember those young men lived out at the Youth Center and made furniture-- EM: Yes. NF: If I remember right. EM: Mm-hmm. Yes. NF: Now whose cabin is this? EM: This is Mr. Mills pioneer log cabin. NF: Oh my! EM: That is Mr. Mills standing there-- NF: Yeah. EM: --and that' ; s me. I preferred to sit down and be out of the picture. NF: Yeah. EM: So (Chuckling) NF: Well now, is this a breezeway between it or is it just a-- EM: A breezeway-- NF: --porch on it? It' ; s a breezeway. EM: It' ; s a breezeway. NF: Uh-huh. EM: they built so many when they didn' ; t have air conditionings, they built so many breezeways. NF: Uh-huh. Well they were-- they were smart. They knew there was going to be an energy shortage someday, didn' ; t they? (Laughter) EM: They must' ; ve looked ahead about fifty years. NF: Well. LM: That was located just west of Nells Chapel (ph) NF: Oh. EM: I didn' ; t see that. That was torn down for that new, brick, Mills Chapel building. NF: Oh I see. EM: I say-- I hated to see it go down. NF: Well it' ; s a shame that we couldn' ; t have preserved it. EM: Yes, it could have been preserved. I really hated-- WS: There is one at Nashville. It' ; s still at Nashville. EM: What? WS: One at Nashville, Tennessee just like that. That' ; s that-- they preserved in a park there. Probably rebuilt it. EM: Oh you mean-- WS: One like it-- that cabin. Yes. Breezeway and everything. NF: Well it looked like a nice, big, comfortable, one. EM: Oh, he said it was. It was just-- it was nice on the inside was finished-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --it was finished quite nicely on the inside. NF: Uh-huh. EM: These two rooms. NF: Uh-huh. Now you say his two brothers didn' ; t stay in this part of the country? EM: No, Dan (ph) and Jessie (ph) Jessie died and Dan didn' ; t want to stay, so Ethan toughed it out. NF: Yeah. EM: Himself. He was a pretty good cook. So he just toughed it out. NF: Had he grown up around Guthrie? EM: Well, while he was-- let' ; s see he was-- he was fourteen years old when they came. Let me think-- LM: He came over here, mother. EM: To Guthrie. Am I right? LM: Uh-huh. He came from Iowa in 1898. NF: Oh, uh-huh. LM: He was in that run to Guthrie. NF: Oh! The run to Guthrie. Oh yes! Uh-huh. EM: And then from-- LM: And then he moved to Chandler, and he and the boys came on over here. NF: Uh-huh. Just crossed into Indian Territory. EM: From Guthrie-- LM: His folks moved to Chandler. EM: --came over here and the brothers-- one died-- I don' ; t think Jessie died here. He died of TB and I think he died at Chandler. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But Dan, the other brother stayed awhile and then left and Ethan batched it out by himself. NF: You know, in our talking with people to tell of the past, I have been surprised at how many people seem to have had Tuberculosis. That two genera-- one gen-- two generations ago. And it must' ; ve been a quite common disease. EM: It was. You know, there is a year where Small Pox will be common and then a year where Diphtheria takes a wave and then a year that TB-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --or years really. Several years. NF: Well did people usually go ahead and die when they had Tuberculosis or did they ever get over it? EM: I don' ; t know of anyone that survived-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --in the early days, I don' ; t. NF: Uh-huh. EM: I don' ; t. I don' ; t think they did. NF: Well, we' ; ve certainly come a long way-- EM: His-- NF: --in medicine. EM: His father really-- they thought-- in those days, they couldn' ; t tell exactly what they had. They didn' ; t diagnose very well. But he thought his father died of TB. NF: Well you know, I think from things that have-- that people have said about Arthur' ; s grandfather that after-- see he died within five years after he' ; d come to Bristow and he was comparably young man. I just wondered if it could have been Tuberculosis. It was about a year' ; s length illness and it sounded much like it. EM: That' ; s just about the time it took to take them after they-- NF: And they came in 1901. That left her a widow with about five children. Mm-hmm. WS: Now did you help organize the Culture Club? EM: Let me see, did I or did I not? If I didn' ; t, I was right-- the next one-- I was right close because so many people thought that I did. So I don' ; t know whether I was in the first organization or not. Mrs. Cheeton (ph) was the main go ahead in the-- WS: The Embroidery Club and the Culture Club were the-- LM: There used to be a Dalcam (ph) society here years ago. WS: Yes, that was after that. Uh-huh. LM: Was it after, well I didn' ; t know when-- WS: My mother and Ms. Lefflar (ph) I know. I can remember-- the volumes you see in the libraries. UI: Uh-huh WS: Dalcam (ph) EM: Your mother was very active in everything. She helped a lot to build Bristow beginning and-- WS: Well it' ; s a wonder with five children that she had the-- (Laughter) EM: Well yes! And believe me, they weren' ; t just children, they were busy bodies. Those twins (Chuckling). I went there to-- George McMillian (ph) was having a demonstration of this new kind of washer. You know the kind that kind of tipped forward and over a hump. I don' ; t know whether you remember it or not. And they couldn' ; t-- you couldn' ; t step one way or the other without stepping on one of those twins. (Laughter) EM: They were the busiest little boys, but they were good. They weren' ; t bad at all, but oh they were busy. I will never forget ' ; em. NF: Well did George McMillian (ph) have a store? EM: No. NF: He was just demonstrating? EM: He wanted to-- he could get a free-- NF: Machine? EM: --washing machine, by selling so many. NF: Oh I see! EM: So he had a demonstration. LM: He had that in the old days too! NF: Well (Chuckling) EM: George (ph) didn' ; t enter in to very many things like that. I was just surprised, but he was-- WS: But I can recall that with ones in our family, that he' ; d order through a catalog. I think it was Carson Pirie Scott from Chicago, and these things would come in. Rugs and different pieces of furniture and things of that sort! EM: Oh! He ordered more than washing machines and-- WS: I guess so! Mm-hmm. EM: Well I never-- WS: From that catalog. (Laughter) EM: I expect for a lot of the relatives he was-- I didn' ; t know there was anything besides washing machines, but they were good machines! NF: Well what did George (ph)-- what did George (ph) do? You know his occupation. WS: He was in the oil business too. NF: He was in the oil business. WS: Mm-hmm. NF: Uh-huh. Well I guess-- EM: He started with the Jones (ph)-- NF: Oh. EM: I don' ; t know whether he ended up independently or not, but he was with the Jones (ph) a long time wasn' ; t he? WS: Yes, the Jones' ; s (ph) had the Burmont (ph) oil company. EM: Yes. WS: And then there was the JoMac (ph) which was Jones (ph) and McMillian (ph) you see. EM: That' ; s right. NF: Mm-hmm. WS: At Mr. McMillian. NF: Well about what time did all this oil business come to a head? Now when your husband came in 1890 there was no oil business, was there? EM: 1916 I would say-- NF: 1916. EM: --was when it come to a head. That is when we got our first oil well. NF: Uh-huh. EM: And there were quite a few strikes east of town at that time too. I think 1916 was our first oil well out there on the home place. And it was pretty good one. Pretty good one. LM: Still is. (Laughter) EM: We had two. How many did we have on that one location? LM: I don' ; t know, there' ; s one of ' ; em still pumping though. (Inaudible) NF: Well. EM: Yes, this was a busy place. LM: Did-- EM: I recall this logging camp down here on the Old Skinner Barn it was called. Was the headquarters for the oil field hauling. And was located at Fourth and Washington Street that' ; s down here. This was before the trucks took over. Trucks were unknown. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Just horses. Horses then were the only means of transportation and another location was this block right here. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: Two-- two locations. Two different companies. NF: Well. Well I expect the people really poured into this part of the country during those years didn' ; t they? EM: (Chuckling) I wouldn' ; t take a thousand dollars for this picture. This is a street scene in Bristow and it was before my time. This was when the old dirt road went through Bristow and the cotton wagons drove in and people that wanted to buy cotton crawled up on the wagons and bid on-- NF: Oh. EM: (Indecipherable) look one way and load. NF: Now is this the-- that' ; s-- that building-- that' ; s the Safeway-- old Safeway parking lot now isn' ; t it? Looks to me like-- EM: That' ; s-- isn' ; t that the American National Bank building? NF: Well. LM: One of them is still (Inaudible) EM: I thought it was, but I may be wrong. NF: Something back, it could be the old American Nat-- this could be the American National Bank. LM: That would be across the street from where the parking-- NF: Yeah. The-- yes-- cattycorner. That' ; s a good picture. EM: This was a-- where was this? LM: This is a later date. That' ; s Bristow. EM: Huh? LM: That was Bristow. You found Ernest was in that. EM: Ernest was in that. That was a little parade that they-- LM: That' ; s a later date in Bristow. EM: I didn' ; t-- I wasn' ; t (Inaudible) NF: Down the Main Street? EM: --Bristow now. NF: Yeah. EM: Here' ; s a sweet picture. That' ; s Jack Abraham. He was one of my pets, but people didn' ; t know it. (Laughter) NF: Oh, isn' ; t he cute! LM: That' ; s the one that brought the apple everyday wasn' ; t it? EM: Huh? LM: He was the one that brought the apple to the teacher. EM: He brought an apple every day. NF: Ah! EM: Everyday an apple. NF: (Indecipherable) EM: He was a darling student. He wasn' ; t spoiled! He didn' ; t-- he scarcely ever do anything wrong. Jack was ideal. NF: Well. Well, he' ; s a cute little boy. I had a little Thompson (ph) last year that looks an awful lot like him. She' ; d be a great niece. She' ; s-- EM: Oh. NF: She' ; s-- her daddy lives down in this Spanish style house down here. What' ; s that Abraham-- LM: Gene (ph)? Gene Thompson (ph)? Oh, Herby (ph). NF: Herby! She' ; s Herby' ; s granddaughter. LM: Karen (ph) NF: She' ; s Carolyn-- she' ; s Carolyn' ; s (ph) daughter. She looks a lot like this. Has the same expression in her eyes. EM: Well on an old hot day not very long ago, Carolyn (ph) drove up to the door with a dish of ice cream. (Laughter) EM: It was such a hot day! NF: Oh! Who' ; s this handsome man? LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Let' ; s see I can' ; t-- EM: I don' ; t know them but they (indecipherable) LM: Yes. EM: Can you read it? LM: This came to me from this (Indecipherable) girl. Her sister, Mrs. Mcclendon no? EM: It' ; s an old, old picture. LM: It was, he was-- oh, let me get my glasses. He was a editor of the early newspaper here in Bristow. NF: Oh I see! Eden (ph) Orval Eden (ph) I think. Orval Eden (ph). Does that sound right? LM: Something. I don' ; t know. This is Mrs. Dye sent these to me. Viola Dye, that used to be here years ago. She used to teach school about the time I-- Orval Eden-- editor of the Bristow enterprise or possibly The Record, in Bristow Indian Territory. The year of 1905. He married a Ruth Appleview (ph) of Bristow, Oklahoma. This picture may possibly be of interest to the local Bristow Historical Society. NF: Well, it will be! (Inaudible) NF: A number of times in the history at the library. But I hadn' ; t known that she was the sister to Mrs. Abraham (ph) EM: Yes. Mm-hmm. NF: Did-- now did Lucy West have a husband and children? EM: She was a maiden. NF: She was a maiden (indecipherable). WS: Well I seen that name Lucy West but I didn' ; t realize who-- the relationship before but I never can recall that (Indecipherable) Abraham (ph) was a West. EM: She was a very good teacher but a very strict one. She was very good to tell me. LM: You need to tell them that dad used to run the Pony Express to Phillipsburg. NF: Oh really! EM: What? LM: He used to run that Pony Express from Phillipsburg. EM: Oh. NF: Pony Express. EM: Ethan did, yes. He rode the Pony Express for years to Phillipsburg. There was no Slick then and very few people know about Phillipsburg. NF: Arthur was telling us yesterday lunch that there was a Phillipsburg and was the other Robertsburg (ph)? He gave about three or four community names that I have never hear of. EM: Well the mail-- Ethan took the mail just to Phillipsburg. NF: To Phillipsburg, and that was near Slick? EM: Yes. LM: About a mile and a half west of Slick, but they say the foundations are still out there. NF: Oh. LM: Mr. Holcomb (ph) says he knows exactly where it is-- NF: I see. LM: --mother had been there but she forgot about it. NF: You know, probably somebody should check on those-- on that. EM: Somebody should write a history of Bristow and some of those things. LM: I' ; ve got this book. The Ghost towns of Oklahoma' ; s. Slicks a ghost town and Shamrocks a ghost town. EM: There should be records of ' ; em down here at the Post office, you know? If Phillipsburg-- NF: Oh well they' ; re not ghost towns. EM: Ethan rode the Pony Express there. LM: But he didn' ; t have the (Indecipherable) WS: Where did he come from, Chandler or Sac and Fox? EM: He came from Chandler. WS: From Chandler to Phillipsburg. EM: Yes. LM: He came from-- there is a Sac and Fox agency-- NF: That was his run. LM: There is a Sac and Fox agency just north of Chandler. There is also the big one down here north of-- west of-- south of Stroud. NF: Uh-huh. LM: But there was a little one north of Chandler. WS: And that' ; s the one, huh? NF: And he rode from north of Chandler to-- LM: So far as we know. NF: Uh-huh. LM: He just gave the Sac and Fox agency. NF: Uh-huh. LM: But if you go that little road that goes from Chandler straight north to Stillwater-- NF: Yeah. LM: You run onto where that old Sac and Fox-- one Sac and Fox agency was. NF: Oh! Uh-huh. LM: They used to have a sign there. I used to (Indecipherable) His father had kind of a livery stable didn' ; t he? Or he rented out horses and things. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And of course-- EM: That' ; s at Chandler. LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Mm-hmm. LM: But that was before he came here to stay. He was just about fourteen years or something. EM: The livery stables were long before (Chuckling) the automobiles. NF: Uh-huh. WS: There was plenty of wild game too in that time. EM: Oh yes! WS: You outta see, talk about the turkeys and the deer and oh, they just must have been so much. EM: The deer would come up to the door for salt and you just felt guilty capturing them when they were so tame. NF: Uh- huh. EM: And the wild turkeys-- LM: (Inaudible) EM: Oh (Chuckling) an explosion! NF: Okay. EM: They' ; ve been blasting. I' ; ve heard at the noon hour. NF: Hmm. EM: Yes, those wild turkeys, you could just go out and sit out any night and make the trees and just choose whatever bird you wanted. NF: Now the buffalo had-- if there had ever been here, were long gone weren' ; t they-- by that time. EM: Yes. NF: And the Indians were not the wild west kind, they were-- EM: No, they were-- NF: --quite civilized. EM: There were no atrocities-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --whatsoever that-- you didn' ; t think there was any, they were quite civilized NF: I noticed in the paper-- in looking through those old papers, it talked about the Snake Indian-- Indian Uprising. That they were afraid the Snake Indians are gonna come in through here and how they put guards around different places. Now that was probably around 1900 I think or 19-- EM: Ethan didn' ; t know anything about that-- NF: Well that was in Clad Purdy' ; s (ph) history, come to think of it. EM: Oh I see, way back. NF: Yeah, way back. Uh-huh. And I think it' ; s before he came probably. Before they came. Probably was heresy. EM: He said that all of the Indians were very friendly. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Very-- and very honest to deal with. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Of course they loved their costume jewelry. You could do almost anything with a bracelet or a ring-- NF: Yeah. EM: All the-- he could tell the most interesting things in those early days. My-- I should' ; ve written them all down, but you know how you-- NF: Time goes fast. EM: And he was really ill when he had time to talk those things and I didn' ; t want him to talk too long. NF: Uh-huh. WS: And did you always live in town? Or did you live out on the ranch? EM: We lived across the street. WS: Oh across the street. EM: Yes. WS: Uh-huh. EM: Ethan' ; s first wife and family lived out there on what we call the Home Place. WS: Mm-hmm. LM: It' ; s where Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph) live-- were living now. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Just a little bit south of-- NF: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. LM: That' ; s where I was born and Ernest was born. EM: They still have the old Home Place, but they' ; ve built a new-- Mr. Jackson (ph) built a new house for the-- what' ; s their names? LM: Anna (ph) and Sonny Davis (ph). NF: Anna (ph) and Sonny (ph)-- and they didn' ; t save the old house? LM: Yes, it' ; s there. NF: It' ; s still there? LM: I was looking for pictures-- EM: Yes! LM: --the other night. We don' ; t even have a picture of that. I had a picture of the old Mills Chapel Schoolhouse-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --before they built the new one. But I don' ; t have any of the other-- the old place. WS: Can you recall living out there? LM: Oh I was just four years old-- WS: Four years old. LM: When they were married. Mother and dad were married. EM: Yes. She was just a baby when Ethan and I were married. LM: We went to live with my aunt in town-- our Aunt Ella (ph) my father' ; s sister. My brother was seven and I was four. NF: Uh-huh. LM: When we came back here. NF: Well. EM: Ernest said that he-- he told me that all he could remember of his mother-- first mother, he always said first mother-- was that he-- let' ; s see, he cut his finger, thumb or something and she came and bandaged it for him. NF: Oh. EM: And he remembered that incident. NF: Uh-huh. EM: She hurried out and covered that. LM: (Inaudible) EM: But that' ; s all he could remember-- anything at all. Of course Lucy Mae was quite young. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: Too young to remember much. WS: So you' ; ve always lived right here in this little (indecipherable) then haven' ; t you? EM: Yes. WS: And as far as you know-- LM: It' ; s just (Indecipherable) the city limits. EM: We-- LM: We had that big field over there. The high school used to (Inaudible) NF: Oh it did, you mean in this whole block down here? LM: This was all our pasture and field and barn and everything over there. EM: There was ten acres over there and Ethan said to me one day, " ; If you want to sell this off in lots-- if you want to bother with it, then we' ; ll build a home over on these two and a half acres that I had bought." ; And of course, you know me, I got busy. (Chuckling) And we sold that off in lots and sold plenty too. And I remember he got excited and he ordered three carloads of brick (Chuckling) I mean train-- trainloads! Flat cars, three of em' ; and so those brick that are over there at Claude Freeland' ; s. He just gave Claude the balance of brick that was left. NF: Oh my! EM: They made the swimming pool. (Laughter) EM: Or it helped them make it. NF: Well they went through a period that they certainly built houses well-- EM: Yes. NF: --here in Bristow. Who built yours? Do you remember? EM: Yes, Mr. Owens (ph) was the main man. He was real-- let' ; s see he did most of it, yes. Mr. Owens, I forgot his initial, but he was killed an accident-- a car accident shortly afterwards. Mr. Martin finished, Leonard Martin. NF: Mr. Leonard, yes. Uh-huh. EM: Finished the job. NF: Uh-huh. LM: L.L Curl (Indecipherable) EM: Let' ; s see, this fellow was killed before and Mr. Martin did the rest of the work. Mr. Martin was a wonderful builder. WS: Yes. EM: If he hadn' ; t of gotten ahold (Chuckling) of this house when he did, I' ; m afraid there would' ; ve been a disaster because the fellow in charge was just trying. LM: That was that L.L. Curl (ph) wasn' ; t it? EM: Hmm? LM: That was that L.L. Curl (ph), you had trouble with-- EM: Curl. C-U-R-L. Yes. C-U-R-L. LM: He was working under this other guy-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --that was killed. WS: Mr. Martin built our house in ' ; 40 and ' ; 41 and possibly was the last one that he built. EM: You have a good house. WS: Yes. LM: This was started during the Depression. You started before the Depression. You had to end it. She was asking you a while ago about the Depression. Don' ; t you remember, you had trouble getting things for a while. EM: Yes. LM: Because of-- NF: Oh really! EM: Lots of trouble. NF: Uh-huh. LM: Right after-- right around first World War. Just-- they started before that-- NF: Uh-huh. Yeah. LM: --and then were still building. NF: Well. EM: Mr. Martin built quite a few houses here in Bristow. I never kept tab on them-- NF: Yes. EM: --quite a few. They were all well-built. NF: Mm-hmm. EM: I always said a person should be proud of any house that was built. But Mr. Martin-- they had something, a prize. NF: That' ; s right, something that would last. Something beautiful. WS: Well ours was in ' ; 40 and ' ; 41 when we were you know going into the World War II. NF: Uh-huh. WS: So things were hard to obtain too. It held us up toward the last, you know waiting for certain things to come in. NF: Was yours about the last big home that he built in Bristow? WS: I believe so. LM: I believe it was too. WS: And-- EM: About the last that Mr. Martin built. WS: Yes. EM: I think so. WS: And the only one built right in that period, and then you know Bristow went for quite a long time before we needed more homes here in town. NF: Well now did Mr. Martin build the Ekdahl house and the McMillian house over on-- WS: I don' ; t believe so there was another man-- NF: He didn' ; t. Uh-huh. WS: Now he could' ; ve built one of em' ; I' ; m not sure. NF: Can you think of anytime in Bristow that there was a real exciting time? How about when the refinery caught on fire. Do you remember that? EM: Yes, I remember. But there wasn' ; t-- it didn' ; t seem to me like there was a terrible lot of excitement about it that I recall. EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE EM: The most exciting days were when the school building burned up here and when Eleanor Roosevelt came to town. (Laughter) EM: I think-- I think Eleanor' ; s visit was the most exciting. NF: Yeah. WS: Do you recall that wreck out there close to Heyburn? Two trains, you see. EM: Oh railroad. WS: Railroad wreck. EM: I don' ; t recall. LM: I don' ; t think I remember much about (Indecipherable) NF: We' ; ve never had a bad storm have we? Where it' ; s destroyed the town? EM: Well, I was visiting at my sisters, when we had our small cyclone that struck out near Mills Chapel. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Lucy Mae was here. LM: That was just a few years ago. NF: Was that the one that happened about twenty years ago that blew away the little pink church down on the road south and killed a couple of negro men? If I remember right. EM: I think that' ; s right. LM: Tore up trees-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --and buildings and everything south of here. NF: I guess that is the worst storm. LM: That' ; s the only one I know of. NF: Uh-huh. LM: My father was living here when they had the bad storm at Chandler, and he didn' ; t hear about it for two or three days. And he loaded up his wagon with supplies-- EM: (Laughter) LM: --and things and then went on down there. EM: Food of all kinds (Chuckling). NF: Well. LM: It was two or three days after it happened before the word got back. NF: Uh-huh. LM: That was when he was batching out in the country. NF: Uh-huh. LM: That' ; s when they had that cyclone in Chandler. My grandmother' ; s house was blown over the hill there-- NF: Well. LM: --and destroyed. Destroyed all of her pretty dishes. EM: I was in Kansas when that storm came to Bristow. LM: That hadn' ; t been very long ago. That' ; s when you' ; re talking about that little pink church was destroyed out there, mother. NF: Yes, I remember. Uh-huh. LM: When the little pink church was destroyed out there. Well, Nellie said she had one brick in you know? EM: Oh, yes! Yes. NF: Well that little-- pink church has been built back and it' ; still just as pink-- LM: That' ; s what she' ; s saying. She gave a dollar, so that was her brick. Nellie West. EM: Nellie didn' ; t have much money to do with, but she was pretty hearted and every time we' ; d go by, she' ; d say, " ; There' ; s my dollar." ; (Laughter) EM: She got a lot of joy out of that dollar and that was-- it was really a sacrifice-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --for her to give. Beside what she gave to her church here. NF: Yeah. Well don' ; t you feel like we are going into a new period of growth here? It seems to me that Bristow at one time grew very rapidly and then after the Depression it coasted along and has for years and stayed about the same size. EM: Well I' ; m wondering if we are picking up. I' ; m just wondering about it. I don' ; t see much indication, do you? NF: Well when you ride out in the country, there' ; s a trailer under every oak tree (chuckling) EM: Oh, I see! (Laughter) WS: So many out in the country and then their group of houses close to the railroad over on the west side and then the ones that are over here that have been put up. NF: Well its-- its grown. I' ; ve been here forty-three years-- EM: out in that McAlister area that they' ; re building, I don' ; t know anything about it. I haven' ; t been out there. LM: Where Miss Sneed (ph) used to have those places out there. EM: That was Sneed ( Indecipherable) LM: EM: I don' ; t know. NF: Down near the football field, in that area? LM: No, it' ; s the one out west of town where-- EM: Indecipherable NF: Oh, Glen Acres. LM: Glen Acres. LM: (Indecipherable) NF: Uh-huh. LM: There are lots of houses every way you go. Everybody seems to be moving to the country. That is disturbing to me rather than fixing up the places in town. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And we were talking the other day about this railroad. Gosh when I went to school, you could get out of town on the railroad or bus. There was lots of way to go, and now days you can' ; t get out of town except you (indecipherable) NF: Well I think the bus still runs, but it runs under protest. They-- LM: It runs every four hours. NF: Oh does it? LM: You used to go to Oklahoma City and come back in one day or you could go to Tulsa and come back in one day. Can you now? NF: No, you can' ; t go any place on the railroad. LM: Bus either, I mean. NF: And I don' ; t know about the bus. But half the town takes off for Tulsa every day. EM: During the Depression in the Depression days, you couldn' ; t-- I guess you' ; d call that Depression days, you couldn' ; t get flour. Couldn' ; t get whole-- whole-- or white flour. WS: Yes. EM: And my-- Ethan' ; s mother would-- she baked a lot and she wouldn' ; t use that new kind of flour at all. So I loaded up a fifty-pound sack, put it in a gunny sack, and boarded the train and took her a sack of flour (chuckling) NF: Oh! EM: But was she happy. She was really happy. LM: To Chandler. EM: Chandler, yes. NF: Yeah. WS: That was hard for us to get accustomed to, I recall-- EM: Oh! WS: --you took flour you know because-- EM: You recall. WS: Yes. EM: Those were pinchy days. We didn' ; t bake. We quit baking much of anything. Biscuits, white loaves, (Indecipherable WS: We certainly did use the corn mill then didn' ; t we? EM: Didn' ; t we though? WS: Because back when (Indecipherable) you see on long distances. Especially if things had to go far or anything like that. EM: You know that (indecipherable) is really good if you learn to make it right. Really good bread. NF: Oh, that was a bread then. I thought it was maybe something like a hominy or something. EM: Well, it was a soft bread. NF: More like a mush or a porridge? EM: No, we baked our (indecipherable) in a big pan. NF: And made it more like cornbread then. EM: And we could lift out a piece about that size-- NF: Well. Uh-huh. EM: It was good. Real sweet. LM: They used to pick wild fruits and put ' ; em down in-- EM: Do what? LM: They used to dry their wild-- I mean their wild fruits. They used to dry them on boards on top of their house too didn' ; t they? NF: Grapes. Would it be grapes and dried fruits. LM: Different dried fruits and they' ; d dry them up on-- EM: I guess I' ; m getting hard of hearing. LM: I know you can' ; t hear (indecipherable) They used to dry their things up on-- corn and wild things up on top of their house. EM: Yes, yes. Lots of that. LM: (Indecipherable) EM: We did a little of that over there. LM: But they did that when he was all together when he was young you' ; d get your wild grapes. And what they had apples around here too didn' ; t they? He said. What were the fruits that they had around in here? When dad first came here. And I think they put some down in big crocks didn' ; t they? EM: Well they made a lot of preserves in crocks. Lots of them. You remember these-- you might not. These old crocks. They were about so big around and they came up to gradually. When they got so high, then they came in gradually and there was a top with a-- NF: Oh a smaller opening. EM: Yes, with a smaller-- do you ever remember seeing any of those? NF: Yeah. EM: Your grandmother should have had some of them. NF: Yeah. EM: And they did a lot of their canning in those preserves especially. Watermelon preserves that we cut the watermelon in pieces about that long and about that wide. And make preserves really good. NF: Well I' ; m sure they ate well and they didn' ; t worry about calories. (Laughter) EM: I don' ; t think they ever heard of calories. (Laughter) EM: They sure didn' ; t worry about them. NF: Well about their clothing now, did women made most of their own clothing in those days? They didn' ; t buy readymade dresses and-- EM: No. They didn' ; t. They didn' ; t have very many for sale in small towns. In large cities I suppose they had plenty. NF: Uh-huh. EM: But they didn' ; t have very many small towns. NF: Did you have a town dress maker or did everybody sew for herself. EM: (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph) was the town dress maker and she-- people who wanted good things went to (Indecipherable) Hallman (ph). NF: Well now, this is before she worked in the post office? EM: Yes. NF: I just supposed she' ; d been always worked in the post office. Well. EM: No for years-- LM: She used to have a shop up there in the old stone building. EM: She made all of Lucy Mae' ; s clothes for years. LM: I still have the top to a real pretty white wool. Had an accordion pleated skirt that was an old white wool, had the fine lace all around. NF: Oh. LM: (Indecipherable) dress. I was looking at a picture with that on last night. But I still got the top I didn' ; t save the-- NF: Well. LM: --the accordion pleat, I was just about eight or nine years old. NF: Now what about Mrs. Klingensmith (ph)? When I came to town she was sewing for people. EM: Yes, she-- she was-- she did good work. LM: She made the hats. NF: Oh, she did. EM: Mainly hats, that' ; s right. NF: Well. LM: She had a regular hat shop downtown. She used to make lots of our hats. NF: Well could you buy women' ; s shoes here at that time? EM: Mr. Jackson (ph) was the first person to-- that I recall Ethan ordered (Indecipherable) from him. NF: Yeah. EM: And finally, he took orders for women' ; s shoes, and eventually carried. NF: I see. EM: Then Cats (ph) came to town. NF: Uh-huh and Cats (ph) had nice, nice things. EM: Everything was good quality. NF: Uh-huh. LM: We used to go to Oklahoma City a lot to shop, didn' ; t we? EM: Oh yes. LM: I remember Beaver Hat you got me in Oklahoma City when I was just a kid. EM: We' ; ve been to Oklahoma City practically all together. We didn' ; t shop in Tulsa for years. LM: The train went down. NF: Uh-huh. EM: Train connections were pretty quite good. NF: And then what would you do when you got to the station in Oklahoma City? You took a cab? EM: Yes. NF: A taxi cab up town? EM: Mm-hmm. NF: Yeah. And then you managed to come back the same evening? EM: We could late in the evening. LM: The train station-- train was just a little ways from town-- NF: Uh-huh. LM: --the old station. NF: Uh-huh. LM: It was right-- no. I think it stopped almost on Main Street there. You could almost watch-- NF: That' ; s right because it still does. It comes right across-- WS: (Indecipherable talking in background). -- close to the Hookens (ph) hotel-- NF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. LM: (Indecipherable talking in background) WS: --if you stayed all night, you stayed at the Hookens (ph). NF: Yeah. LM: Cause you could practically walk on that town after you got there. NF: Well. LM: I remember one time I was a little kid, and mother had gone on to town for something and I was to meet her down (Indecipherable) we was going on the train and I didn' ; t wear any hat. And even little kids wore hats in those days (Chuckling). She was so (Indecipherable) cause I was going to Oklahoma City and didn' ; t have my hat. (Laughter) NF: Well I remember the first teachers meeting I went to. We went to Tulsa on the train. EM: You did? The first teachers meeting was in Tulsa? NF: Well after I started teaching-- yeah. EM: (Indecipherable talking in background) LM: After she started teaching-- NF: Uh-huh. Thirty-one years ago. The first time-- EM: Oh! NF: --the first state teachers meeting happened to be in Tulsa that year, and we went up on the train. EM: Oh. Old timers. NF: Uh-huh. (Chuckling) LM: When I went to school I went on the train to Chicago and to Chicago changed over to-- to Madison. NF: Where did you go, Lucy Mae? LM: Wisconsin. NF: Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin. LM: Yeah. NF: Well. Now you-- LM: And I came back one year from Madison, came through Kansas City and trains were late, it was Christmas. And some old (indecipherable) you know how hopeful they used to be. He-- as I came in there, he said, " ; What train are you going on? And I said, " ; I' ; m going-- had a reservation on the train going to Tulsa." ; He says, " ; It' ; s just about ready to leave. Come on, I' ; ll getcha on it." ; (Laughter) LM: He did, we just went across tracks and everywhere. I got on it! WS: As the rural people came down, at least your relatives and maybe some others to see you off too! It was quite the thing to go down to the train. EM: It makes me think of Ethan' ; s niece, Helen (ph) used to live with us. She taught (indecipherable) lessons here. And she would phone down and tell ' ; em that she' ; d be a little bit late, to hold the trains. (Laughter) EM: I used to get so (Indecipherable) I could throw a brick at her. (Laughter) EM: And sometimes they did. " ; I' ; ll be a little bit late, please hold the train." ; (Laughter) WS: The trains you see just had to stop in Bristow to get water. EM: Yes. WS: Our water was considered ; you know so much better than these other towns. NF: Oh. WS: Yes, so trains stopped for us. NF: Oh! WS: Here when the-- EM: The water was-- they had soft water wells here I think for the railroad, didn' ; t they? Weren' ; t they more soft than usual? NF: Well I know Bristow water is comparatively soft. It' ; s-- we have-- we have good water. EM: Mm-hm. NF: Yeah. EM: It' ; s not real hard. NF: Uh-uh. EM: That is like some that-- NF: Uh-huh. EM: --you used to just scum (indecipherable) NF: Yes. EM: --and pull the lime off. (indecipherable) Skim it off. LM: I noticed in the paper they were talking about those Junior Colleges. The Junior College that was had here in Bristow. You remember when we had that ' ; 28 reunion? NF: Uh-huh. LM: This boy asked how many of those had gone. It started in ' ; 29, you know. How many of those had gone to those Bristow Junior College and there will a big bunch that held up their hands if you need any, I have the addresses to most of that group that will be here. NF: Oh. LM: And then (Indecipherable) Fox (ph) sat next to me. I remember she held up her hand. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And-- NF: Well that' ; s good to know. LM: If they can' ; t get-- NF: (Indecipherable) Now according to paper, it sounds as though they had Junior College a couple of years, and then didn' ; t have it, and then had it again. Is that right? Or was that wrong? LM: I don' ; t-- I don' ; t recall. I went-- I didn' ; t stay here that year, I went up to Belmont. But they had-- that was the first time they ever had it-- NF: Mm-hmm. LM: --in ' ; 29. NF: In ' ; 29. LM: And they were still-- they were having-- they had it also when I was teaching up here. That was I think the last group, because Ms. McCormick (ph) who was teaching with me had some college students. NF: Uh-huh. LM: I didn' ; t. The last year I taught I had some from A and-- from Oklahoma A& ; M that came over for observation. The state-- NF: Oh. LM: --for several weeks. But I didn' ; t teach in the Junior College. NF: Uh-huh. LM: (Indecipherable) the one that was connected here in Bristow. But they did have it then when I was teaching, ' ; cause I remember she had some classes. NF: Uh-huh. LM: College classes. But I don' ; t know too much about it. But I notice a lot of those kids held up their hand. NF: Well a whole group of that age group started here. LM: Mm-hmm. NF: Uh-huh. LM: And I noticed (Indecipherable) held up her hand so. And there were-- Oh! The boy that asked about it, not the (Indecipherable) boy, the other fellow, I think (Indecipherable) did go to, but there was-- well ten or twelve that night that held up their hands anyway. That they attended that first Junior College that Black (ph) started here. NF: Well I think we were blessed with having E.H. Black (ph) in charge of the schools here. I think he set a standard-- EM: He was a wonderful fellow. Some people didn' ; t like his-- because it was so strict in some ways. NF: Uh-huh. EM: That was good. NF: Uh-huh. Well he set standards that you can still see traces of ' ; em in our school system. EM: Yes! NF: It' ; s made us hold to standards that a lot of schools have given up. EM: Mm-hmm. WS: And of course, Ms. Black (ph) taught too, didn' ; t she in the schools. EM: Yes. WS: Yes. Everyone talking at once EM: And he had two or three little girls. I don' ; t know whether it' ; s two or three little girls. LM: Mr. Black, yes (Indecipherable) NF: Yes, he has two daughters. Two daughters. EM: I know there was two, but I wasn' ; t sure about the third. NF: Well I think the whole town had some advantages over similar towns, in that we had fine music teachers and people with high educational standards and demands for the schools to be done a certain way, don' ; t you think it made us have a better school system? WS: There was a Music Club here at one time. EM: Yes, a good Music Club at one time. NF: Uh-huh. EM: I didn' ; t belong to that. I' ; m not very music minded, but they had a real good club. NF: Well it' ; s kind of interesting to observe how students have turned out who' ; ve gone through Bristow schools. We lose track, we don' ; t really realize and something will drift in. Well for instance, this year we went to our grandson' ; s graduation from Med School and here on the program was this youngster who finished high school here about ten years ago and had gone in the Navy, and I' ; m sure was doing it through the Navy help, but here he was finishing Med School. The boy that-- what' ; s his name? I can' ; t even think of his name now. LM: I saw that in the paper. NF: Uh-huh. End of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0020_Mills,_Edith_Lucy_Mae.xml OHP-0020_Mills,_Edith_Lucy_Mae.xml
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Edith and Lucy Mae Mills
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OHP-0020
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Ralph R. "Brick" Kirchner
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0015-01_Kirchner,_R_R_Rotary_Club.xml
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oil drilling, Bristow Rotary Club, Ralph Kirchner,
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5.4 OHP-0015-01 Ralph Kirchner at Bristow Rotary Club OHP-0015-001 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Oil Drilling - The Early Years Bristow Historical Society, Inc. oil drilling, Bristow Rotary Club, Ralph Kirchner, Ralph R. " ; Brick" ; Kirchner N/A MP3 1:|17(6)|27(6)|44(7)|61(15)|70(12)|80(2)|93(2)|106(2)|122(3)|135(2)|146(14)|158(2)|170(8)|178(6)|188(3)|198(9)|216(2)|226(13)|236(13)|245(13)|256(7)|266(10)|277(15)|285(7)|295(6)|308(7)|318(9)|327(1)|338(10)|349(10)|369(3)|382(11)|389(14)|401(8)|417(13)|425(15)|436(9)|450(12)|460(1)|473(4)|482(5)|496(16)|513(12)|524(14) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0015-01 Kirchner, R.R. Rotary Club.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction of Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner EM: We’ll have to be real quiet on this now. (Pause in recording) EM: [inaudible] He has attained the ripe of age of ninety-one. His father made the run in to Oklahoma territory in…1889? BK: Ninety-three. EM: Ninety-three, back here when the state [inaudible]. BK: That’s correct. EM: Brick attended the Oklahoma A& ; M College, for those of you who are not familiar with that, it’s now Oklahoma State University. Brick is also the dean of the Bristow District Rotary Government, having served since 1931 and 1932. There are many more facts about Brick Kirchner that I’d like to bring out is that Brick Kirchner is—or was, at one time—in the newspaper publishing business. Brick Kirchner owned half interest in a newspaper in Ada, Oklahoma. Having seen the error of his ways, he took his money out of the newpaper— Guest speaker Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner is introduced by Ed Mackenson Brick ; Bristow Rotary Club ; Congress ; Oklahoma A& ; M College ; Ralph R. " ; Brick" ; Kirchner Introduction of Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner 143 Ralph Kirchner Early Years BK: [inaudible] No, I don’t care. Am I speaking into this? Okay. Mr. Steward, thank you very kindly for that very nice and very liberal education, and I’m happy that my [indecipherable] section is here, too. (chuckling) BK: And the [indecipherable] section’s been here for a long time. I thought, too, it was kind of odd, Doc Yourman got the program for Don Kitchens, and Don Kitchens couldn’t be here, so Ed McMillan—I mean, Ed Mackenson introduced me for Don Kitchens. Now that beats around the bush a little bit. (laughter) Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner speaks about his early years in college and in the military. Army ; Ed Mackenson ; Gulf Oil Production ; Gypsy Oil Company ; J.D.Ward ; Oklahoma A& ; M Ralph Kirchner Early Years 372 Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner sells real estate BK: Now that’s something, too! And I went to Perry. That’s my old hometown. And Perry is—was about eighteen, twenty miles—about twenty miles, I guess—southeast of Garber, and Garber was really booming then. Plenty of production around there, but Garber was really booming of that fine, high-grade oil. And my dad was in the real estate business and he would buy royalties. So he and two other gentlemen that I knew bought royalty under the Wolf (ph) farm about two miles south of Garber. And my dad had told me, and so had Mr. Mauser (ph) that they would like to sell their interest if they could get $15,000 for it. So I thought that I’d use that as a starter and I went to Enid and I managed to sell that royalty—represented that I owned its individual interest and could deliver it for $22,500. And that’s quite a bit of profit. So I had to buy it first, so when I came home that evening I went to my banker, Mr. John Hanson (ph), the Bank of Commerce, and explained the deal to him and I said, I’d like to borrow the money from you to buy this. He said, Alright, I’ll do it. I’ll tell you how I’ll do it: I’ll do it for half of the profit. (laughter) Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner talks about buying and selling royalties in Oklahoma. Enid ; Garber ; Mr Hanson ; Perry ; royalty Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner sells real estate 537 Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner goes into the oil business So I was acquainted with Jim Sloane (ph). Jim was the tool pusher for the Roxanna Oil Company. And a tool pusher—that means he had charge of all their drilling tools, and hiring the men and so forth and operate the rigs. And so Jim and I decided to go into partnership and buy a string of tools, which we did. And Jim was fortunate enough to get his assistant pusher—to get his assistant pusher appointed to fill his position at the Roxanna. Here’s the deal: that enabled us to borrow from [indecipherable], this assistant, any tools that we didn’t have! So that made a nice deal for me, too. Brick begins a partnership and starts Kirchner & ; Sloan, Inc. Billings Petroleum Company ; doodlebug ; Jim Sloane ; Kirchner & ; Sloan, Inc ; oil ; Roxanna Oil Company ; tools ; Yukon Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner goes into the oil business 759 Getty Oil Company Contract But by that time, it was necessary that we got our rig moved because we had a contract with the Getty Oil Company. The Getty Oil Company was owned by J. Paul Getty. This location was on a main (ph) six miles east of Billings. J. Paul owned the Getty Oil Company. His father, Colonel Getty, was the big dog Getty in the oil business at that time. He owned the Minnehoma Oil Company and had mass production in the Garber field. We drove this well for Mr. Getty and we had our bunkhouse there, and it was the cook shack also. Some of the crew stayed in the house and we cooked our meals there. And our meals was either hot dogs or hotcakes. Hotcakes for breakfast and hot dogs at the other two meals. Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner drills for Getty Oil Company Bank of Commerce ; drilling ; Getty Oil Company ; Hoover sand ; J. Paul Getty ; Kirchner & ; Sloane, Inc. ; Minnehoma Oil Company ; Mr. Hanson ; oil ; Santa Fe Station Getty Oil Company Contract 1005 Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner drills for J.D. Means BK: Well, I have a lot written down here. (laughter) BK: Our next well, after Mr. Getty’s well, was for J.D. Means, and it was by the northeast offset to Mr. Getty’s. And while we were drilling that well for Mr. Means, Marland Oil Company was drilling in the northeast corner of the section and we were in the southeast corner of that same section. We made a small well for Mr. Means, but Mr. Getty—I mean, Mr. Marland, on his location up there, got a nice well and that was the discovery well for the great Oklahoma Three Sands pool. And incidentally the north offset to that, my dad had some royalty that he purchased under that, too, that offset—that well was dry. The east offset and for a mile and a half or two miles north and south, and a mile and a half wide, was the Garber field, and it was a dandy. [There are a] few wells producing there today. Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner drills for J.D. Means and discusses life in the oilfield boarding house ; Bristow ; bunkhouse ; Caufield Oil Company ; Garber field ; J.D. Means ; John Phillips ; Krumme ; Marland Oil Company ; oil scouts ; Oklahoma Three Sands Pool ; Phillips Petroleum Company ; Red Fork ; rig Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner drills for J.D. Means 1408 Drilling in Slick, Oklahoma Well, we got started at Slick. We were on fuel number one, and after we got a little below a hundred feet we went through the line and left the tools in the hole. We had about three feet of line—the line broke about three feet up above the tools. And those drilling lines, as most of you know, have six strands. They’re six to nineteen line, they’re called. There’s six—there’s three big strands and nineteen little strands in there. Well, we had the casing rolled down to get over the tools to pick ‘em out but I couldn’t get over it on account of that size of wire there. And we ran a light down the hole to see what condition it was, because you could look down there and see it with a light in there. And it was frazzled out, and I said, If that wire was cut off at the top of that socket, we could fish those tools out. And one of the men volunteered to go down and I thought, That’s a foolish trip. And we had [indecipherable] it’d break our company for sure. So I went down myself. And I put a felt hat on and filled it with waste up there because you could hear chunks go down there and hit the water around those tools and go ka-PLUNK and you didn’t know whether it was a big chunk or a little chunk or whether it was a rock or a piece of shale. Nevertheless, I went down and it wasn’t dangerous. However, we were drilling an 18” hole and right on top of the ground was cable tools you stomp, you know, and put a little water in the hole and stomp down there and bail out what you’ve mixed, that’s the way they drill with cable tools. Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner discusses drilling near Slick, Oklahoma and for Caufield Oil Company on the Sewell Farm Barney Sewell ; Caufield Oil Company ; control head ; drilling ; Dutcher ; eight-mile corner ; explosion ; oil ; Sewell ; Sewell Farm ; shell ; Slick Drilling in Slick, Oklahoma and for Caufield Oil Company 1872 Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner discusses Jim Sloane BK: --he said, No sir, mister, [indecipherable], said, We done closed the rolls. (laughter) BK: [Indecipherable.] –my partner in Kirchner & ; Sloane, Inc. was Jim Sloane (ph). Jim wanted to continue drilling on a contract basis. I wanted production. So we dissolved partnership and dissolved the corporation and I got—and divided up the tools. We had two strings at that time. And I got a lease on the Henry Fisher farm south of here, and many of you are familiar with the Fishers and some of ‘em buy their eggs there, I imagine. But we drilled a well on it, I sold some interest in it for to raise a little money to drill it with and I sold Art Stone (ph) on the interest on those. And Art was out there the day we were to hit the sands. And I was in to fifteen-ten (ph) and it was looking good, and I sold Art Stone a ninety-sixth (ph) interest for $3,000 on the derrick floor there just by a shake of the hands—and that’s the way many, many deals were closed, just by a shake of the hands. And it wasn’t an hour until we’d hit—until we hit the sand. And when she started smoking gas we started out of the hole, but the oil beat the tools out of the hole. And did we feel good! And so we had the tanks up anticipating a well, and we had the tanks up so we got out of the hole and tools and closed that control head and turned it into the tanks and it was flowing into the tanks. And we went home that night, nice little fortune between the [indecipherable] bungalow. I figured, I think we’re rich. What in the world could we do now for our poor relatives? Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner discusses Jim Sloane and how they dissolved the partnership Art Stone ; Jim Sloane ; Kirchner & ; Sloane, Inc Ralph " ; Brick" ; Kirchner discusses Jim Sloane 2063 Gotham Oil Company BK: Let’s see. The next one—I moved from there over to [indecipherable] 15-10 for the Gotham Oil Company. The Gotham Oil Company was out of Washington, D.C. And M.M. Wyville (ph) was the major holder in the Gotham Oil Company. And M.M. Wyville (ph) was secretary to William Jennings Bryan when Bryan secretary of war under Woodrow Wilson, to give you a little line-up on that. We drove that well for, for Gotham and when she started smoking gas—we had the control head on—we turned it into the pit, turned the well into the pit in case it wouldn’t flow. And Mr. Wyville (ph) and I went to Bristow to order out the tanks. We did, we ordered out a full tank and two 250s. Tanks then were all folded tanks, they weren’t welded like they are today. But when we got the tanks set—the well’d flowed twice into the pits when we got back. When we got the tanks set we picked up 450 barrels of good oil out of the pits. And [indecipherable] wanted to drill the well six inches, and we tried to hit the string on six inches—six inches above the clamps—and clipped it to the clamps, and it didn’t change the motion at all. And when it drilled off, it came out of that hole. That well made 450 barrels. That was sixty-one years ago now, today. Sixty-one years ago and that well is still producing between seven and eight barrels in the Meisner sand. Drilling for the Gotham Oil Company and discussion of Claude Freeland Albert Kelly ; Claude Freeman ; Corporation Commission ; gauger ; George Fargo ; Gotham Oil Comapany ; Levan ; M.M. Wyville ; Poor Farm ; Prairie Oil and Gas ; William Jennings Bryan ; Woodrow Wilson Claude Freeland ; Drilling for the Gotham Oil Company ; Prairie Oil and Gas 2390 Bristow is a Boom Town BK: Bristow was a—Bristow was a real boom town and my time’s about gone, but I wanted to tell you some of the things that aren’t here now that I saw here. We had three refineries here. A Bristow Refining Company out here on the Kelly farm here right at the north edge of town. Wilcox Refinery across the railroad track east of it. And then the Sun Company Oil Refinery up on the hill—one of the old [indecipherable] refineries. We have no refineries here now. We used to have the Republic Supply Company here—that’s an oilfield supply company. Across the street was the Oil Well Supply Company. Then after that was the National Supply Company. A couple of blocks north and a half east was the— Bristow was a " ; real boom town" ; with many refineries and oil businesses. American Tool Machine Company ; Bristow ; Bristow Pipe and Machine Company ; Bristow Refining Company ; Chester ; Cushing ; Ed Abraham ; National Supply Company ; Oil Well Supply Company ; Producer Supply Company ; refineries ; Republic Supply Company ; Sun Company Oil Refinery ; Wilcox Refinery Discussion of Bristow as a boom town In this 1979 interview, Ralph R. “Brick” Kirchner (1893-1990) speaks extensively about the oil drilling industry in Bristow, Oklahoma in the early 1900s, business involvement with J. Paul Getty, anecdotes about Tom Slick, how people handled their new-found oil wealth, and restrictions upon Indians regarding the handling of their own finances. EM: We' ; ll have to be real quiet on this now. (Pause in recording) EM: [inaudible] He has attained the ripe of age of ninety-one. His father made the run in to Oklahoma territory in--1889? BK: Ninety-three. EM: Ninety-three, back here when the state [inaudible]. BK: That' ; s correct. EM: Brick attended the Oklahoma A& ; M College, for those of you who are not familiar with that, it' ; s now Oklahoma State University. Brick is also the dean of the Bristow District Rotary Government, having served since 1931 and 1932. There are many more facts about Brick Kirchner that I' ; d like to bring out is that Brick Kirchner is--or was, at one time--in the newspaper publishing business. Brick Kirchner owned half interest in a newspaper in Ada, Oklahoma. Having seen the error of his ways, he took his money out of the newpaper-- (laughter) EM: Brick also has--I don' ; t know whether this is a distinction or--but Brick has stood for public office. Brick ran for Congress in the fourth congressional district on the Republican ticket and I think that' ; s the reason I got to introduce you today, Brick, is because I ran on the Democratic ticket about twenty years later. (laughter) EM: I asked him what year he ran, he couldn' ; t tell me. He said, What year did you run? I said, I don' ; t remember either. (laughter) EM: Without any further accolades, I' ; d like to introduce to you, our dean of the Bristow Rotary Club, Brick Kirchner. (applause) BK: [inaudible] No, I don' ; t care. Am I speaking into this? Okay. Mr. Steward, thank you very kindly for that very nice and very liberal education, and I' ; m happy that my [indecipherable] section is here, too. (chuckling) BK: And the [indecipherable] section' ; s been here for a long time. I thought, too, it was kind of odd, Doc Yourman got the program for Don Kitchens, and Don Kitchens couldn' ; t be here, so Ed McMillan--I mean, Ed Mackenson introduced me for Don Kitchens. Now that beats around the bush a little bit. (laughter) BK: But I' ; m happy to be here, and I want to endeavor to give you some interesting points about the life of a ninety-one-year--of a ninety-one-year-old oilman. When I got out of school at Oklahoma A& ; M, I went to work for the Gypsy Oil Company in Tulsa. Gypsy Oil Company was the production department of the Gulf Oil Corporation, and I was in the production department at seventy-five dollars a month, if you please. Not bad! It wasn' ; t--I wasn' ; t there too long until I had an opportunity for a better salary and I went to Collinsville for Mr. J.D. Ward at a hundred-and-a-quarter a month, and then I was in tall cotton. I thought that was something. I got my first production-- (pause) Well, I was with Mr. Ward and he encouraged me, and then he said, You ought to get something for yourself. So I acquired a lease on eighty acres east of Owasso, Oklahoma and I sold it the superintendent of the Bartlesville Yanks (ph) Company, provided he would drill a well and carry me into the tanks and first well. That he did. We got a little well on the Bartlesville, around 7,800 feet and didn' ; t amount to very much. So I was fortunate enough to sell the well and lease and get Mr. Gardstock' ; s (ph) money back for him out of the deal. But nevertheless that was--that was my first real introduction in it where I' ; d get a little grease on my hands. That, that' ; s oil business. I [indecipherable] to the Army from Collinsville, and my employer, Mr. Ward, got me a deferment for a while, and then I volunteered in the Army for the--in the F-A-C-O-T-S. That' ; s Field Artillery Central Offices Training School at Camp Taylor, Louisville, Kentucky. I had letters from my employer that when I got out of the Army that he had great things planned. But I had something planned, also. I figured if I had made money for him buying and selling real estate and leases, I certainly ought to be able to do it for myself. So I got my discharge from the army and incidentally I got my discharge and my commission in the same envelope. (laughter) BK: Now that' ; s something, too! And I went to Perry. That' ; s my old hometown. And Perry is--was about eighteen, twenty miles--about twenty miles, I guess--southeast of Garber, and Garber was really booming then. Plenty of production around there, but Garber was really booming of that fine, high-grade oil. And my dad was in the real estate business and he would buy royalties. So he and two other gentlemen that I knew bought royalty under the Wolf (ph) farm about two miles south of Garber. And my dad had told me, and so had Mr. Mauser (ph) that they would like to sell their interest if they could get $15,000 for it. So I thought that I' ; d use that as a starter and I went to Enid and I managed to sell that royalty--represented that I owned its individual interest and could deliver it for $22,500. And that' ; s quite a bit of profit. So I had to buy it first, so when I came home that evening I went to my banker, Mr. John Hanson (ph), the Bank of Commerce, and explained the deal to him and I said, I' ; d like to borrow the money from you to buy this. He said, Alright, I' ; ll do it. I' ; ll tell you how I' ; ll do it: I' ; ll do it for half of the profit. (laughter) BK: Well, now, he didn' ; t hurt himself any--if seventy-five--that' ; s $3,750 is all he was going to charge me for that $15,000 for about thirty days. And that was our last--I was pleased that I could get the money so I told my dad and I went home and I said, I' ; d like to buy your Wolf (ph) royalty. He said, You' ; d like to buy my royalty? Now, how in the hell would you--could you buy it? (laughter) BK: Well, I couldn' ; t have that morning, but I-- (laughter) BK: I could that evening because I had arranged for the credit! He said, Well, I' ; ve decided I don' ; t want to sell mine. Now that was a shock to me, first. The other gentlemen that I knew that had that like interest was in Amarillo. I didn' ; t know whether he' ; d be in, so I did manage to acquire the interest of a gentleman in Pawnee and I delivered it and I got my $22,500, Mr. Hanson (ph) got $3,750 and I got $3,750 out of it, and I thought I had about half the money in the world. Me, with $3,750 and owed no one! I felt mighty good. I wanted to put that money to work. So I was acquainted with Jim Sloane (ph). Jim was the tool pusher for the Roxanna Oil Company. And a tool pusher--that means he had charge of all their drilling tools, and hiring the men and so forth and operate the rigs. And so Jim and I decided to go into partnership and buy a string of tools, which we did. And Jim was fortunate enough to get his assistant pusher--to get his assistant pusher appointed to fill his position at the Roxanna. Here' ; s the deal: that enabled us to borrow from [indecipherable], this assistant, any tools that we didn' ; t have! So that made a nice deal for me, too. And we--we' ; d brought our rig up here north of Yukon, Oklahoma. And we moved it up to Billings where we had a contract for the--for the Billings Petroleum Company. Our company name was Kirchner & ; Sloan, Inc. And we had to have this well started by September 5 to validate Billings Petroleum Company' ; s leases there. So we rigged up and we run the socket out of the back window that you' ; re familiar with, and screwed onto our big-holed stem to bring it into the rig, put the bit on and starts spudding, and we got it up at about a forty-five-degree angle and this thing broke square in two in the middle. We just pulled the top half of it into the rig and spudded with half of a stem, no bit on it! (laughter) BK: Ran the driller, got a little mud out of the hole and dumped it in the cesspit and the lease was validated. Then we were in business, we' ; d made good. (laughter) BK: We had finished that well for the Billings Petroleum Company--finished our contract, I mean--we had no oil. That location that I drilled for them was made by what was called then a doodlebug. A doodlebug were an oil smeller and this doodlebug--this doodlebug or oil finder--he had two black whale bones about that long and about a quarter inch square fastened together at the point with a little bottle on it. And I found out later that little bottle had crude oil in it, and it had crude oil that was produced in the area where he would work. Well, he' ; d made that location, he said, Now there' ; s shallow gas along here, and there' ; s deeper oil along here, so we' ; ll dig this location right where they cross, we' ; ll have shallow and we can get the gas for fuel, ' ; course everything was steam then, and at--do future development on the lease. We completed our contract-no oil, no gas, no nothing. And they paid it. But they wanted to go deeper. That doodlebug knew there was oil down there, so we agreed to drill it deeper at $7 a foot and they paid us over 100 feet. Drill it we did, we drilled it 300 feet deeper and they paid us every hundred feet. But by that time, it was necessary that we got our rig moved because we had a contract with the Getty Oil Company. The Getty Oil Company was owned by J. Paul Getty. This location was on a main (ph) six miles east of Billings. J. Paul owned the Getty Oil Company. His father, Colonel Getty, was the big dog Getty in the oil business at that time. He owned the Minnehoma Oil Company and had mass production in the Garber field. We drove this well for Mr. Getty and we had our bunkhouse there, and it was the cook shack also. Some of the crew stayed in the house and we cooked our meals there. And our meals was either hot dogs or hotcakes. Hotcakes for breakfast and hot dogs at the other two meals. Mr. Getty came out when we were approaching what was to be the objective sand--which was the Hoover sand--and he--I recall he had a little wax moustache, short, that just stuck square off. And when he opened his coat he had a deputy sheriff' ; s badge on his shirt. He wanted to get some Oklahoma tan to carry back to L.A., so he would walk up and down the highway here up by the rig with his hat off and his shirt unbuttoned to get a little tan. Well, he got the sunburn, anyway! We made him a well at twenty-two-sixty. Twenty-two-hundred-and-sixty-feet in the Hoover sand. Made about sixty barrels of that lovely, high-grade oil. And Mr. Hanson, with the present Bank of Commerce, he financed our operation all the way. And I wanted to get the money for the well so I could pay Mr. Hanson and stop that interest. I made out my bill immediately and took that and the log and certificate and I went up to the rig the next morning. And Mr. Whitsun (ph), J. Paul' ; s superintendent, said, Well, now, J. Paul won' ; t be out here. J. Paul' ; s on his way to Los Angeles, and if you don' ; t catch him before he gets away, you' ; re liable to be two months getting your money. I said, Where is he? And he said, He' ; s at the Santa Fe station in Perry. And I hustled right in to the Santa Fe station in Perry. And we had a few [indecipherable] and went in to the waiting room and there was Mr. Getty, and we had a few pleasantries and then I presented my bill and told him the bank and I needed the money. And he said, I' ; m sorry, crookster, but I don' ; t have any checks on my bank. Well, I said, I can fix that. And I stepped up to the ticket window and I got a blank check on the Bank of Commerce at Perry, changed it to his bank in Los Angeles, and made out--filled in the amount of the bill for Kirchner & ; Sloane, Inc. and presented it to Mr. Getty, and he signed it. And we were happy. (laughter) BK: I waited around with him until his train came in and he left. And I haven' ; t seen him from that day ' ; til this. But he' ; s done alright, I understand. (laughter) BK: Richest man in the world. That was quite an experience. He was very pleasant, and very nice. (pause) (papers rustling) BK: Well, I have a lot written down here. (laughter) BK: Our next well, after Mr. Getty' ; s well, was for J.D. Means, and it was by the northeast offset to Mr. Getty' ; s. And while we were drilling that well for Mr. Means, Marland Oil Company was drilling in the northeast corner of the section and we were in the southeast corner of that same section. We made a small well for Mr. Means, but Mr. Getty--I mean, Mr. Marland, on his location up there, got a nice well and that was the discovery well for the great Oklahoma Three Sands pool. And incidentally the north offset to that, my dad had some royalty that he purchased under that, too, that offset--that well was dry. The east offset and for a mile and a half or two miles north and south, and a mile and a half wide, was the Garber field, and it was a dandy. [There are a] few wells producing there today. Now after we finished that well for Mr. Means, I loaded a flatcar. Loaded a string of tool on a flatcar and started for Bristow. And I followed it--that flatcar--in my automobile. And I found out that five bucks here and there in some of these yards will get your car moved pretty fast. It worked in west Tulsa that way--Red Fork, I mean, that way. And we got in to Bristow, there was no trucking contractors then, everything was moved by teams. Most of it was most by teams. So we got Doc Martin (ph), a teaming contractor here, to move us out to Slick, eight miles east and two south of here, for the Caufield (ph) Oil Company. They had claimed this block of acreage there, which acreage and wells in production is now owned by the Krumme brothers. Harlan' ; s here today. By owned by Harlan and George. And I loaded a 14x28 boxcar house for myself and I had the deluxe job: I had a screened-in porch on each end of it and I had a sub-roof over my roof, about eight inches up, where the sun couldn' ; t hit my--the roof of our house directly and the air can circulate under there. So we thought that was pretty deluxe for us. And I built a 14x40 bunkhouse there and I built it right by the bathhouse, and near the boarding house, because all the leases then, if they had any size and employed very many men, they had a bunkhouse and boarding house and a warehouse, just as the Caufield (ph) Oil Company did. I remember, we had a good boarding house there. And it happened that the driller--a driller that worked for me was the husband of the lady that ran the boarding house, and while I wasn' ; t using him on the rig, she was running him around the country buying groceries for the boarding house! So I thought, Well, he can' ; t be doing his work. I went down there about three o' ; clock one morning and there he was, sound asleep on the driller' ; s stool, the tools just swinging, motion very slow, just swinging, wasn' ; t even hitting bottom. So I didn' ; t wake him up, I just wrote his check out because you would carry a time book and a checkbook in your pocket then, and fire a man if you wanted to, because you didn' ; t have to account for his social security or any other take-out. So I just wrote his check out and put it in the headache box there at the rig and told his tool dresser, who was awake, I said, Just call that to his attention when he wakes up. I paid him off. We had a lot of fine experiences out there at that time. I remember at that time the companies--the larger companies--all had oil scouts. And I recall one in particular that came to our rig to get information. They wanted to know how you were coming so that they could buy leases if necessary. I remember one of the Phillips boys--John I think was his name, John Phillips of Phillips Petroleum Company. He wasn' ; t one of the rich ones, that was Waite and his--Waite Phillips and his brother. And this boy, this Phillips, was about my age--around twenty-six I was then. And he came to our rig scouting our rig to see how deep we were, and if he could catch any--take any samples that we had there of sand that we had encountered. And he got to be quite a big shot then. At that time the companies furnished the rig, pipe, fuel, and water on the location for a drilling well. They' ; d build a rig, and the rig was all wooden--no steel rigs then, and they had a 250-barrel tank on both sides of the engine house there for water, and they had water the tracked to the tank. It was filled up, the 250-barrel wooden tank. Well, we got started at Slick. We were on fuel number one, and after we got a little below a hundred feet we went through the line and left the tools in the hole. We had about three feet of line--the line broke about three feet up above the tools. And those drilling lines, as most of you know, have six strands. They' ; re six to nineteen line, they' ; re called. There' ; s six--there' ; s three big strands and nineteen little strands in there. Well, we had the casing rolled down to get over the tools to pick ' ; em out but I couldn' ; t get over it on account of that size of wire there. And we ran a light down the hole to see what condition it was, because you could look down there and see it with a light in there. And it was frazzled out, and I said, If that wire was cut off at the top of that socket, we could fish those tools out. And one of the men volunteered to go down and I thought, That' ; s a foolish trip. And we had [indecipherable] it' ; d break our company for sure. So I went down myself. And I put a felt hat on and filled it with waste up there because you could hear chunks go down there and hit the water around those tools and go ka-PLUNK and you didn' ; t know whether it was a big chunk or a little chunk or whether it was a rock or a piece of shale. Nevertheless, I went down and it wasn' ; t dangerous. However, we were drilling an 18" ; hole and right on top of the ground was cable tools you stomp, you know, and put a little water in the hole and stomp down there and bail out what you' ; ve mixed, that' ; s the way they drill with cable tools. I went down there and [indecipherable] to it, but they let a lantern down on a string so I could see what I was doing and I had a hammer and a sharp chisel and they let me down on derrick line around me so I could stretch out a little bit and sliver myself any time where I didn' ; t figure there was much hazard to it. But I chipped those strands off of there and I [indecipherable] they pulled me out of the hole. However, they did drop the line that had the lantern on it, and it went on down the hole. And then we let the casing roll down over it and put the slips over it and gosh, it came with no difficulty at all getting the tools out once we got over them. But on the next well that I drilled with was for the Caufield (ph) Oil Company and it was the variant north offset to this first well. And we got to the well--I mean, got to the sand around 2,700 in the Dutcher--and the Dutcher over in the Slick area was black oil around thirty-four to thirty-six gradients (ph). And when the--we' ; d shoot a well, they shot all of them over there, when they' ; d shoot on ' ; em, when they' ; d shoot a well, they would load the oil--the well with oil on top of the shot right up to where it was running over the control head because if they didn' ; t fill it clear full they' ; d--when that shot went off it would break the pipe at the top of the fluid. And we tried it once just filling it up into the control head and it broke the control head! So after that, we ran it over. Well, when that shot goes off, it blows that hole full of oil in the air, and that' ; s why it was such a beautiful sight over there. When you come out from Bristow, top that hill by the eight-mile corner--every drilling well was clean, white pine just about the color of that piece of paper, and the producing wells were black because they had been shot, and were all covered with oil. And we used steam for fuel and every drilling well there was that white, crisp steam and it was a beautiful sight. Well that' ; s the drilling well--that fuel drilled up pretty rapidly. Now that-- (pause) Oh, yes, I' ; m on the Sewell (ph) farm there--I mean, yeah. Barney Sewell' ; s (ph) farm, that' ; s where this well was. Second well that I drilled for Caufield (ph). And they were putting the shot in. We drilled the well and we were gonna shoot it. We used shots before--did sixty quarts of liquid nitroglycerin: glycerin shells around four inches in diameter and about five feet long. And you would hang it onto the hook there that would stay hooked as long as there was any tension on the line. And you had to be in there when the shooter was there, some of the crew did. And I' ; m telling you right: when that shooter gets that shell--that glycerin can up there--and poured it down in there, when that hit the bottom of that shell, I mean, it just kind of sets the hair on you a little. (laughter) BK: It looked scary to me! Well, we had a little more gas in that Sewell (ph) than we did in the fuel, and we were putting the last shell in. We got down in the hole a ways and the shooter--the shooter operated the reel that lets the shell down the hole--and his line went slack, which showed that that shell was coming up the hole. And it had unhitched! That gas with [indecipherable] gas in there is gonna blow that--have a good chance to blow that shell out of the hole. And it started going pretty good. The shooter hollered, Catch that shell! And I said, Hell on earth. (laughter) You catch your own shell if you want-- (laughter) And I did like he did, and all the rest of them: I ran! (laughter) And sure enough, the shell came out of the hole and blew the Caufield (ph) Oil Company' ; s rig down. Clear down. None of us were hurt, fortunately, and that wasn' ; t so bad, except for the delay in production and the dollars that it cost to replace this rig. It didn' ; t hurt my tools any. And-- because those shots will go off naturally in seventy-two hours at that depth and in that area. In seventy-two hours that shot will go off by itself due to the heat and pressure on it. And that' ; s what happened on this well of [indecipherable] out there. (Break in recording) BK: --he said, No sir, mister, [indecipherable], said, We done closed the rolls. (laughter) BK: [Indecipherable.] --my partner in Kirchner & ; Sloane, Inc. was Jim Sloane (ph). Jim wanted to continue drilling on a contract basis. I wanted production. So we dissolved partnership and dissolved the corporation and I got--and divided up the tools. We had two strings at that time. And I got a lease on the Henry Fisher farm south of here, and many of you are familiar with the Fishers and some of ' ; em buy their eggs there, I imagine. But we drilled a well on it, I sold some interest in it for to raise a little money to drill it with and I sold Art Stone (ph) on the interest on those. And Art was out there the day we were to hit the sands. And I was in to fifteen-ten (ph) and it was looking good, and I sold Art Stone a ninety-sixth (ph) interest for $3,000 on the derrick floor there just by a shake of the hands--and that' ; s the way many, many deals were closed, just by a shake of the hands. And it wasn' ; t an hour until we' ; d hit--until we hit the sand. And when she started smoking gas we started out of the hole, but the oil beat the tools out of the hole. And did we feel good! And so we had the tanks up anticipating a well, and we had the tanks up so we got out of the hole and tools and closed that control head and turned it into the tanks and it was flowing into the tanks. And we went home that night, nice little fortune between the [indecipherable] bungalow. I figured, I think we' ; re rich. What in the world could we do now for our poor relatives? (laughing) BK: And I went out the next morning: Lo and behold, there' ; s a hundred and thirty-six barrels in the tank and eighteen hundred feet of water in the hole and the well had stopped flowing. (laughing) BK: And, well, we put tubing rods in it and produced it for a while, but it would never pay off. I think I was the only one that got my money back out of the deal on it, and that was on account of that $3,000 I got offered by Art Stone. (laughing) BK: Let' ; s see. The next one--I moved from there over to [indecipherable] 15-10 for the Gotham Oil Company. The Gotham Oil Company was out of Washington, D.C. And M.M. Wyville (ph) was the major holder in the Gotham Oil Company. And M.M. Wyville (ph) was secretary to William Jennings Bryan when Bryan secretary of war under Woodrow Wilson, to give you a little line-up on that. We drove that well for, for Gotham and when she started smoking gas--we had the control head on--we turned it into the pit, turned the well into the pit in case it wouldn' ; t flow. And Mr. Wyville (ph) and I went to Bristow to order out the tanks. We did, we ordered out a full tank and two 250s. Tanks then were all folded tanks, they weren' ; t welded like they are today. But when we got the tanks set--the well' ; d flowed twice into the pits when we got back. When we got the tanks set we picked up 450 barrels of good oil out of the pits. And [indecipherable] wanted to drill the well six inches, and we tried to hit the string on six inches--six inches above the clamps--and clipped it to the clamps, and it didn' ; t change the motion at all. And when it drilled off, it came out of that hole. That well made 450 barrels. That was sixty-one years ago now, today. Sixty-one years ago and that well is still producing between seven and eight barrels in the Meisner sand. George Fargo (ph), who was superintendent for the P-O-N-G, Prairie Oil and Gas, he wouldn' ; t believe it that we' ; d only drilled it that far in. When he--he drilled the offset for his company and he drilled it in two feet. His well was plugged in a year and a half, he got it in the water too far! And this one, I think--this one makes water now, but it still produces between seven and eight barrels. And I drilled a seven-hundred-foot well there and we pumped the water into that, that Boomer (ph) sand, I think it is. Let' ; s see now. (pages rustling) Man, alive. Well, some of you' ; ll want to know how we--how do you get your money for your oil? When you got a tankful, you call the gauger, he comes out and gives you a written--gives your tank top and the bottom and then peeks at it to see how much b.s. and water there is in it and if there' ; s too much of that basic sediment and water in there, why the gauger' ; ll say, Clean your tank, like they told us on this ticket here. (laughter) BK: It says, Clean tank. And they gave you a ticket for each tank and they would pay you on about the twenty-sixth of the month--the twenty-sixth of the following month. Rotary is much faster than drilling with cable tools, so Claude Freeland--which some of you know, he built that home first--home west of the Presbyterian Church here in Bristow. Claude Freeland drilled a well out in the Poor Farm area, which was discovered--the Poor Farm area was discovered by Albert Kelly, Levan' ; s dad--discovered the Poor Farm pool. Claude Freeland had a well that had started off with 10,000 barrels a day of this black Dutcher oil. A grand well. Carter had the offset. They wanted some of that, so they moved a rotary in. That' ; s the first rotary that was in this country, on that offset. And they drilled it down there, set by to drill the hole dry and drilled the sand and made ten million in gas. No oil. They let it blow wide open in the air thinking that it would blow onto oil. But it didn' ; t. You can' ; t blow one open that way today, the Corporation Commission' ; ll be on ya--you got to shut that well in. If you don' ; t they' ; ll shut it in for ya and charge ya. (noise) Pardon me. And, well--this well of Claude' ; s--and Claude would ride with me out to the rig once in a while and we' ; d visit--he told me about that particular well. He said, That well made a million dollars' ; worth of oil in sixty-seven days and never made another barrel of oil. Not a million barrels' ; full, a million dollars' ; worth. And I imagine then that oil was worth about $2.45 a barrel. That' ; d be nice to have in the family, believe me. (laughter) BK: Bristow was a--Bristow was a real boom town and my time' ; s about gone, but I wanted to tell you some of the things that aren' ; t here now that I saw here. We had three refineries here. A Bristow Refining Company out here on the Kelly farm here right at the north edge of town. Wilcox Refinery across the railroad track east of it. And then the Sun Company Oil Refinery up on the hill--one of the old [indecipherable] refineries. We have no refineries here now. We used to have the Republic Supply Company here--that' ; s an oilfield supply company. Across the street was the Oil Well Supply Company. Then after that was the National Supply Company. A couple of blocks north and a half east was the-- UM: Producer. BK: Producer Supply Company. The [indecipherable] was here. Also the American Tool Machine Company and the Bristow Pipe and Machine Company run by Mr. Cushing. Mr. Cushing had a son, Chester--when you' ; d go in there for any fishing tools, old Chester--you' ; d tell him what you want, Chester' ; d say, Oh hell you don' ; t want that, you want to have this, show' ; d me this or that. But after Chester got to drilling for himself he found out that the people that knew pretty well what they wanted when they went in there. And Chester drilled a well for himself just about a quarter of a mile south of this new project on south Chestnut and a quarter west up on the hill. He drilled it with cable tools ' ; til the [indecipherable] broke sand, made a little, well, and his wife dressed tools for him on that well. Drilled it in daylight, and his wife dressed tools. That' ; s something. I only want to give you interesting things, I think. Out northwest of town we had some big wells. I recall one that was drilled on the Abraham, the Ed Abraham farm out there and it got away and went into the air and the wind was right that it blew oil from that well into Bristow and spotted clothes that were on the line, and oil spots on your car. Three miles away! (papers rustling) That' ; s all of it. (laughter) UM: [Inaudible.] BK: No, I don' ; t want to shoot the breeze all afternoon. I' ; m too [indecipherable] have to go, it' ; s time to go on and [indecipherable] around here. Well let' ; s see if there' ; s anything else that I think you, you can' ; t live without. (laughter) Yes, I tell you what it is! Bristow was a boom town, the streets were full and the sidewalks were full, in fact I' ; ve seen teams lined from Slick two miles north to the eight-mile corner of a morning. Just teams loaded out with pipe and rig stuff. And people would like to see--individuals would like to see people mill up and down those sidewalks, and some of them would park their car at a point of vantage and walk home, and then walk back downtown and get in their car in view of the people walking up and down the streets and sidewalks because it was that interesting. That' ; s the Bristow that a lot of you have never known. Thank ya. (applause) Tape ends. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0015-01_Kirchner,_R_R_Rotary_Club.xml OHP-0015-01_Kirchner,_R_R_Rotary_Club.xml
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Ralph Kirchner at Bristow Rotary Club
Description
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In this 1979 interview, Ralph R. “Brick” Kirchner (1893-1990) speaks extensively about the oil drilling industry in Bristow, Oklahoma in the early 1900s, business involvement with J. Paul Getty, anecdotes about Tom Slick, how people handled their new-found oil wealth, and restrictions upon Indians regarding the handling of their own finances.
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OHP-0015-001
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1984
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audio
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Oral History
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Interviewer
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Georgia Smith
Interviewee
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Gerald Guy Henshaw
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml
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5.4 June 30, 2021 OHP-2021-17 Gerald Henshaw OHP-2021-17 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Gerald Guy Henshaw Georgia Smith mp3 1:|77(2)|117(3)|188(7)|220(2)|260(2)|305(11)|341(12)|386(1)|441(4)|484(8)|546(2)|583(6)|643(9)|697(5)|742(5)|770(6)|824(2)|880(5)|938(2)|967(12)|1010(2)|1039(16)|1076(9)|1115(2)|1146(4)|1184(8)|1250(2)|1282(7)|1333(2)|1369(1)|1409(5)|1443(3)|1496(4)|1532(4)|1570(1)|1624(6)|1662(8)|1676(4)|1721(6)|1765(13)|1793(12)|1816(5)|1863(16)|1894(15)|1919(5)|1941(8)|1956(13)|1983(3)|2023(4)|2045(2)|2069(12) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-17 Henshaw, Gerald.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. Today is June 30th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Gerald Henshaw and his friend Jim hurt, who I’ve just interviewed. And he’s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow and Jim might chime in if he has any memories as we go along. So Gerald could you give me your full name? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: Okay, and Jim could you give me your full name again? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt GS: Thank you. Okay Gerald what was your name at birth? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw Bonita Childress ; Bristow Historical Society ; Farmer ; Franklin A. Henshaw ; Franklin S. Henshaw ; Georgia Smith ; Gerald Henshaw ; Helen Henshaw ; Irene Rush ; Jim Hurt ; Norma Hallman ; Oil Worker https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228596411/franklin-abile-henshaw Franklin A. Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766193/rosa-irene-henshaw Irene Rush Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228570988/naomi-ann-henshaw Naomi Ann Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22766187/franklin-s-henshaw Franklin S. Henshaw 334 Early Childhood GS: Okay, tell me about what life was like at home when you were growing up? GH: At home, let’s see, I had my brothers- let’s see, two of my brothers was living there and of course we was in fights all the time, they was fightin’ me all the time. GS: Yeah GH: And then, course the girls- I was the king [indecipherable] of the girls. You know, I keep charge of them and, and so we kinda just- we’s kinda really on our own basically cause dad worked nights, and we were kinda. Then well and I’ll tell ya about another story about we had lighting [Indecipherable] house we lived in. First all, we had corduroy lights. GS: Okay GH: Had [indecipherable] by the corduroy lights and then we got a- when dad come in put gas lights in, we had gas line go across the property 1950 ; Midwest City ; Oklahoma Tire and Supply ; Rory Rogers ; Tommy Earl Henshaw https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26833064/tommy-earl-henshaw Tommy Earl Henshaw 757 School Life GS: Oh goodness, where did you first attend school Gerald? GH: Where? GS: Uh-huh GS: First grade I was in Edison, and then they decided well [Indecipherable] anyone come in a ride the bus had to go over to Washington. GS: Okay GH: So we went over to Washington and stayed there, so I guess, what, sixth grade maybe? GS: Yes GH: And then came back to the middle school Bristow High School ; Edison ; FFA ; Fusco ; grade school ; jalopy ; junior high ; List Motors ; Mr. Pow ; Mrs. List ; School ; Washington ; Wendell List https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204414/wendell-oliver-list Wendell List https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204411/mignon-list Mignon List 1155 Church Life GS: Yeah. Okay and now I know that Jim went to a church as a child, did you go to church as a child? GH: My mother I understand was really a stout Christian, and she’d took us to church every day. Dad didn’t go, but, but then I was baptized at the first Baptist church here in Bristow. GS: Okay, do you remember who your pastor was? GH: Day GS: Day? JH: Vernon Day (ph) GH: Vernon day, yeah. Yeah he was the pastor and I really remember going home and telling dad that I’d got baptized that day, and I’ll tell ya a little story about him too, he was [Indecipherable] because I was, I still remember today, of course we always would. But Whenever my mother passed away, we had these do gooders that’d come in from Church ; First Baptist Church ; Vernon Day 1302 Entertainment and Medical/Dental Care GS: Can you tell me anything about the entertainment that we had in Bristow? GH: Entertainment, oh yeah we had three, two- two shows GS: Okay GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: And one drive in theater out at the— GS: Pirate drive in GH: Pirate drive in, take my little 39’ ford and fold out seat. The back of it was welded, the trunk was welded shut, it had this seat to get into— you had to raise the seat to get in the back of— you had to pile in the back of there, and close the seat down. Drive to the window Amphitheater ; Carnivals ; Creek County Fair ; Crest Toothpaste ; Dental School ; Doctor ; Doctor King ; Drive-in theater ; Entertainment ; Oklahoma City ; Parades ; Peggy Durham ; Pirate Drive-In ; polio ; Rodeos ; Silver Plunge ; Skating Rink http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/28659 Pirate Drive-In 1722 Jobs, Businesses, and Education GS: As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? GH: Old GS: Amen GH: Now I’m old. [Indecipherable] I guess I wanted to be a cowboy GS: A cowboy? GH: [Inaudible] I always wanted to be [Inaudible] and stuff GS: Right GH: Silver [Inaudible] GS: Very romanticized image of the cowboy GH: Right GS: What was your first job other than farm? Allstate ; American Lines ; Bristow Community Bank ; Contract Administration ; Contract Administrator ; cowboy ; DLA ; Hamburger King ; Hi-Cafe ; J& ; J Cafe ; John Sukabody ; JR Childress ; Locker Plant ; mechanic ; Moon Shop ; Oklahoma Tires Supply ; Okmulgee, Ok ; OSU Okmulgee ; OSUIT ; Palace Drug ; Social Degree ; State Farm 2224 Military Service GS: Yes, yup, yeah you never can predict them a lot of times. So what branch of the service were you in? GH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force? And what was your— what were your duties there? GH: My duties in the air force I’ll tell ya that story. I went in and [Indecipherable] and I were friend, we lived out in [Indecipherable] county. Anyway, we went in, the recruiter says “Okay you boys can stay together. While you were in the service, we decided that you boys are really good”. Well we went- we worked together one night in base ; we went into basic training, got through with that. 8th Air force police force, 8th Air force police. We got wiped out in ol’ Korea. So this whole platoon went into the air police except one. It was [Indecipherable]. Him and ol’ [Indecipherable]. GS: Wouldn’t you know Air Force ; Altus ; Canine School ; Korea ; Korean War 2447 Bootleggers and Prohibition GS: Yup, Did I miss something Jim? JH: Yeah, the bootleggers GS: Oh the bootleggers! We mentioned them but we didn’t go any further! Tell me about the bootleggers, one of ya. GH: Well the bootleggers- GS: Well you talked about buying the white lightening and then feeling guilty about spending the buck on it GH: Yeah, well it wasn’t my dollar, it was my dad’s dollar. GS: Yeah JH: No Frank Junie (ph) lived down the road from me, and everybody knew he was a bootlegger, and his daughter married a bootlegger whose name was Smith who lived across from J& ; J Café upstairs. But anyway, Frank had a boat with a cover over it and he’d go to Missouri and pick it up and come back so— otherwise you drove one of these big cars and loaded it down the back end the highway patrol would stop you and then take all your merchandise Bootleggers ; Frank Junie ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jonny Baker ; liquor ; Prohibition ; Texco Cafe ; White Lightening 2530 Wheat Harvest and Adult Life GH: I forgot to tell you about wheat harvest GS: Tell me about that wheat harvest GH: Wheat harvest, yeah we went to wheat harvest up in Kansas GS: Yes GH: And I drove the truck up there GS: Uh-huh GH: To wheat harvest. [Indecipherable] International truck GS: Yes GH: Stick, shift gears GS: Uh-huh Wheat ; Wheat Harvest 2736 Closing Thoughts and Hamburger King GS: Well yes I would too. That just wasn’t right at all! I’m gonna ask you the same question I asked Jim. As you see it now, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? GH: Biggest problem that I can [Indecipherable] is selfishness GS: Yeah GH: People who haven’t had to work, are not working, they think the big government is gonna take care of them for the rest of their lives. Talking about giving them free college, and free this free that, which I think is wrong and way to turn that around is to give a persona a hand up instead of a hand out. GS: Give them an incentive GH: Give them something [Indecipherable] teach them out to fish and all that stuff GS: Exactly Bob Wills ; Bristow Historical Society ; BristowHistoricalSociety.org ; Donald Crawford ; Golden Eagle Cafe ; Hamburger King ; J& ; J Cafe ; Jonny Lee Wills ; Kellyville ; Lucian Tiger ; Luke Fry ; Route 66 https://www.bristowhistory.org/ Bristow Historical Society In this 2021 interview, Gerald Henshaw shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Jim Hurt. He discusses life on a farm, numerous jobs, and together Gerald and Jim share stories from their young adult lives. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Gerald Henshaw (GH) Other Persons: Jim Hurt (JH) Date of Interview: June 30, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Abby Thompson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Societies ongoing oral history project. Today is June 30th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Gerald Henshaw and his friend Jim hurt, who I' ; ve just interviewed. And he' ; s going to tell me a little bit about his history in Bristow and Jim might chime in if he has any memories as we go along. So Gerald could you give me your full name? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: Okay, and Jim could you give me your full name again? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt GS: Thank you. Okay Gerald what was your name at birth?GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw GS: And when were you born? GH: October 11, 1936 GS: Okay, and were you born here in Bristow? GH: North of Bristow GS: North of Bristow, in a house? GH: In a house GS: Were you delivered by a doctor or midwife? GH: Doctor. My granddad was the first medical doctor here in Bristow, Oklahoma JH: I didn' ; t know that GS: I didn' ; t know that, what was his name? GH: Franklin, Franklin A. Henshaw GH: Franklin A. Henshaw, first doctor here in Bristow GH: Yes, he was the first medical doctor here in Bristow GS: About what year was that? GH: Oh goodness that had to have been, oh I don' ; t know, about 30' ; s? GS: Was that, okay it was, we were a state GH: Yeah, yes GS: Yeah, okay. So your grandfather delivered you? GH: Yes GS: Oh, that' ; s a cool story GH: Right GS: What were your parents' ; names? We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. GH: My mother' ; s name was Irene Rush, Rush Thompsons note: Franklin Abile Henshaw (1857 -- 1954) -- Find A Grave MemorialThompsons note: Rosa Irene Rush Henshaw (1899 -- 1942) -- Find A Grave MemorialGS: Okay GH: And dads name was Franklin S. Henshaw. GS: Okay GH: And they, she was out of Kansas. She lived in Kansas, and they got married in Kansas [Indecipherable] questions. GS: Okay GH: They were married in Kansas then came here to, I guess start a family, start a life [Indecipherable] GS: Do you know what brought them to Bristow? GH: I have no idea. GS: Okay. GH: Probably a wagon (Laughter) GS: I bet it was! Do you know about approximately the year they were married? GH: No, I don' ; t GS: That' ; s okay, that' ; s okay GH: I' ; ve got that information, well I' ; ve got that information JH: Who said they were married GS: Right, right GS: How many children did you have? GH: We had eleven GS: Did your parents have? GH: Parents had eleven. GS: Eleven! GH: Eleven children GS: And where did you fall in that rank? Thompsons note: Franklin S. Henshaw (1889 -- 1959) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: I was the sixth one, sixth born GS: Oh my goodness, you were smack dab in the middle. GH: Just about, I have a lot of older sisters and four younger sisters GS: Okay, are any of them still living? GH: Four girls are living GS: Oh GH: You had one died in birth, and she' ; s buried out here in Bristow GS: Okay GH: Yeah, they' ; re all still here. Well, in fact, there' ; s three of- two of them live here in Bristow. One lives in Midwest city, one lives over in hu- not Hugo, but over east of here. GS: Okay what are the name of the ones here in Bristow? GH: Norma Hallman GS: Okay GH: You probably know her, and then Bonita Childress GS: Okay JH: Oh yeah GS: What did your father do for a living?GH: He was an oil worker and a farmer GS: An oil worker and a farmer. GH: What happened to him was he was in an oil rig and it blew up with him. And it messed his whole leg up, he lost- he didn' ; t lose the leg but he lost a lot of the muscle in the leg. GS: Yes GH: And so the only people that got any money out of that was the attorney. And so we, then went and got a farm out north of here and started farming. GS: Probably wasn' ; t easy farming with one leg. Thompson note: Naomi Ann Henshaw (1932 -- 1934) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: No, he- yeah he knew it. He didn' ; t have a, you know, just, it wasn' ; t a- he just didn' ; t have any muscle in the leg. GS: I see GH: He could walk, but he couldn' ; t just stay very long at a time, ya know. GS: Right, yeah. I' ; m sure all the kids helped with the farm of course too. GH: Oh yes, yeah. Well my brother, oldest brother, he had a dairy- he brought a dairy out there GS: Okay GH: And I remember having to get up in the morning and milk these cows by hand, and before I went to school. And I' ; d drink hot milk with my cereal before going to school. And then later on we got a little stance thing that you put over the back of cows and had to sit on it, and then it was called a class B farm, which you didn' ; t have to have cement floors ; you could have a dirt floor in this kind of a farm. GS: Okay GH: So, but then we got out of that business because he couldn' ; t-- he couldn' ; t run it and I couldn' ; t help him after. GS: Oh GH: So we got out of that, and we just raised hay and stuff like that after that. And cattle, we had some cattle. GS: Sure, yeah. What about your mother, what did she do? GH: She' ; s a homemaker GS: Sure GH: As far as I know, she died about 42' ; maybe. GS: So how old were you when she passed away?GH: I was probably about, well I was born in 36' ; so I was probably about six GS: Aww GH: Six years old yeah. GS: That' ; s sad. GH: My youngest sisters born pretty close to the time she passed away. GS: Wow GH: Yeah GS: She didn' ; t die in child birth GH: No, it wasn' ; t child birth. I don' ; t know what she died of really, I don' ; t know. GS: Okay, are you married Gerald? GH: Yes. GS: Okay and your spouse' ; s name? GH: Helen Henshaw GS: Helen GH: Parick Henshaw GS: And is this the same spouse you' ; ve had your entire life? GH: Yeah, she' ; s put up with me all sixty-something years. GS: Sixty-something years, that' ; s wonderful. GH: Yeah GS: How many children do you have? GH: I have two children, one daughter and a son. Daughter has two children, a son and a daughter, and I have a great grandchild GS: Wonderful GH: Yeah GS: Wonderful, you' ; re blessed GH: Yes GS: Okay, tell me about what life was like at home when you were growing up? GH: At home, let' ; s see, I had my brothers- let' ; s see, two of my brothers was living there and of course we was in fights all the time, they was fightin' ; me all the time. GS: Yeah GH: And then, course the girls- I was the king [indecipherable] of the girls. You know, I keep charge of them and, and so we kinda just- we' ; s kinda really on our own basically cause dad worked nights, and we were kinda. Then well and I' ; ll tell ya about another story about we had lighting [Indecipherable] house we lived in. First all, we had corduroy lights. GS: Okay GH: Had [indecipherable] by the corduroy lights and then we got a- when dad come in put gas lights in, we had gas line go across the property GS: Right GH: So was able to tap into that GS: About what year do you think you got gas? GH: I know it' ; s kinda early on. I would say probably 36' ; , thirty- GS: Mid thirties GH: we had probably late thirties maybe. GS: Late thirties GH: Yeah GS: Okay, go ahead. GH: Because then-- but he would just run the gas line right along the ceiling and around and then drop a light off of that. [Indecipherable] line did you know (Laughter) GH: And so, but then after that, he hooked up a generator, and it had a washing machine motor on the-- back in washing days then, we had to wash it by hand. Anyway, took one of them motors and took it out there in the little building and put it on a generator and then we got lights. Of course, you had to go out there and start the generator-- start that motor up to get a lights. GS: Oh, it was electricity then? GH: Right, yeah, after that. JH: Ohhh GH: Yeah. And then we didn' ; t have running water, we had to shower-- we had a big, like a big building-- not a building, but a big tub type of thing, it wasn' ; t a tub anyway JH: Tank? GH: Tank, yeah. GS: Okay GH: And, on top of this building you' ; d go out there and take a shower. GS: And you had to leave the house to go take a shower? GH: Yeah to take a shower, had to leave the house to go to use the bathroom. GS: Okay GH: Oh yeah, we' ; d all that stuff GS: Oh okay, you had an outhouse, yeah. GH: Yeah, had to- two holer. Had a two holer, we' ; s a [Indecipherable] GS: Oh I bet JH: They refer to that as the good ol' ; days (Laughter) GH: Yeah, but anyway. We had a good time, I had a horse, horses to ride. We used the horses to plow the fields and all that kind of things. GS: Did you have to work most of the time or did you get time to have fun? GH: I worked all the time. I worked all the time, yeah. Yeah, took-- only time we had fun was when there somebody come out there and get lost and we could make fun of em' ; (Laughter) GS: Now where is it you lived again? GH: I lived out three miles north of Bristow. GS: On 48 or 66? GH: No on 66, right off of 66. GS: Oh okay GH: It' ; s about, I don' ; t know what the name of that road is, do you know where that cemetery is out there that- GS: Yes GH: You take that road right north of that cemetery and take it around. GS: Okay GH: We lived out there GS: Okay GH: Yeah GS: Did you have any toys as a child? GH: Toys? Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah- had a horse. (Laughter) JH: Stick GH: Yeah, a stick horse. Oh but, I was one-- one Christmas I wanted a chaps, so I could be a good cowboy GS: Oh GH: Dad got me a little chaps and a gun holder and two guns, I still got the guns by the way. GS: Oh how neat! JH: Oh cool! GH: And Rory Rogers (ph) guns, so I was king of the [Indecipherable] whenever I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Now were you older than your sisters? GH: I was older than four of them GS: That' ; s what I was thinking GH: And I had one older sister, yeah. GS: So that' ; s why you were the king [Indecipherable]. GH: Yeah that' ; s right, yeah I was the only boy there, ya know JH: (Laughter) GS: So did the sisters do a lot of the cooking? GH: Well, I' ; ll tell ya about that. We cooked, no they didn' ; t much cook. We had a black lady one time GS: Uh-huh GH: That came and she cooked for us meals. And my younger sister, she says " ; I' ; m not gonna eat that, d' ; you see them black hands go in that" ; GS: Aww JH: (Laughter) GH: And so she, my dad cooked most all the meals, yeah, when I was in school and all that. [Indecipherable] My brother would pick us up from school and take us back out to the house and he' ; d have a bowl of soup or stew or something like that fixed for us. GS: Was he a pretty good cook? GH: He was a good cook. GS: Oh okay JH: Which one? GH: My dad. JH: Oh I thought you said your brother. GH: No, Tommy. He worked at Oklahoma tire and supply. GS: Okay GH: For the Griffins JH: Oh Tommy, I remember Tommy. GS: Yes GH: Yeah GS: Virgil (ph) and Earl? GH: No, Virgil and- no it' ; s not here. No it' ; s not GS: That' ; s okay. GH: Virgil Earl GS: Earl, okay. JH: Virgil Earl. GS: I think Earl was Virgil' ; s wife. GH: Yes, Earl was his name- Earl Virgil-- in fact that' ; s my doctor in Midwest city, is the nephew of those guys. GS: Oh! Well that' ; s a small world! Thompsons note: Tommy Earl Henshaw Sr. (1929 -- 2007) -- Find A Grave MemorialJH: Wow GH: Anyway GS: Yeah. Okay so, did you grow most of your own food, or did you come into town to buy it? GH: Well, some of both. We grew a lot of it, we ate what was on the field. GS: And did you can? GH: No we didn' ; t can much, no. When we' ; d have mom, but of course wasn' ; t around. GS: Right GH: But no we didn' ; t can much. GS: Probably a bit much to try the canning. GH: Yeah GS: What about livestock? Did you do your own butchering? GH: Yes, butchered the hogs in the wintertime. Put em' ; in a smoke house, keep them so we could keep em' ; and eat em' ; along the way. GS: Right GH: Yeah. GS: What kind of clothes did you wear? GH: Clothes did we wear? We' ; d wear regular clothes. GS: Well, what would be regular clothes? GH: A shirt and pants. GS: Overalls, blue jeans? GH: Yeah mostly blue jeans, I didn' ; t wear overalls much. I don' ; t like overalls. Jeans and shirt, or no shirt. Most of the time in the summer time we had no shirt, yeah. GS: [Indecipherable] Yeah, and the girls probably all wore dresses. GH: Yes, they all wore dresses, yes. GS: What did you-- did you ever get to get out of the house to go do something fun like maybe at church or? GH: Oh yeah, let me-- let me tell you about this story. GS: Okay GH: Back in about 1950 GS: Uh-huh GH: Television came to Bristow JH: Ohhh GH: And one of the guys, Mrs- JH: Anyway GH: Anyway, her son won a television GS: Oh how nice GH: And gave it to her, and she let us come up there on Saturday nights GS: And watch TV GH: And watch wrestling JH: Outside, right? She put it on the front porch or in the house? GH: No, no she put it in the house. We' ; d have wood stove- JH: This wasn' ; t Solomon GH: No, no. JH: Okay go ahead. GH: I can' ; t think of her name now. Anyway, she let us come up there and the girls and boys would all meet up there on Saturday night and watch wresting and watch [Indecipherable] and throw the [Indecipherable] out. GS: Yes GH: Yeah, so we had a good time doing that. And then later on we got a TV and [Indecipherable] (Laughter) JH: A big TV GH: Yeah, a small TV, yeah. GS: Oh goodness, where did you first attend school Gerald? GH: Where? GS: Uh-huh GS: First grade I was in Edison, and then they decided well [Indecipherable] anyone come in a ride the bus had to go over to Washington. GS: Okay GH: So we went over to Washington and stayed there, so I guess, what, sixth grade maybe? GS: Yes GH: And then came back to the middle school GS: Okay GH: Here, and then graduated out of Bristow High School right out here. GS: Okay GH: But I went to both schools. GS: Okay, who was your first grade teacher?GH: Mrs. List (ph) GS: Mrs. List was your first grade teacher GH: Yes GS: I' ; m wondering if it was the same List that taught me in upper elementary GH: I don' ; t know, he-- they owned the List motors. GS: It was GH: Yeah, and my brother worked for em' ; GS: Okay GH: Yeah, yeah so she was-- I was telling you that story JH: Wendell List GS: Wendell List JH: Yeah, I don' ; t remember her name GS: Do you remember his old jalopy he used to drive in the parades? Thompson note: Wendell Oliver List (1903 -- 1986) -- Find A Grave MemorialGH: Oh yes! Yeah, yeah. JH: She' ; s bringing back memories (Laughter) GH: Yeah, yeah JH: You must be older than you look GS: Well 82 GH: Well she' ; s listened to a lot of people, she' ; s listening to a lot of people (Laughter) GS: I remember that old jalopy in those parades GH: Yeah, yeah. He brought it every year. GS: It' ; s a rather memorable car to- Okay any good memories from grade school? GH: Grade school? GS: Usually kids don' ; t have a lot of memories from grade school GH: I didn' ; t have a lot of memory, I know we had a lot of fun like I' ; s telling you a while ago, playing out in recess time. GS: Yes GH: That' ; s what I like best, was your recess time, yeah. GS: Definitely so. GH: But I don' ; t have a whole lot of memories. That one I was telling you about first grade, I was crying all year all day long. [Indecipherable] GH: Can' ; t get rid of it GS: And you were only like four or five years' ; old GH: About five years old, yeah. Five years old. GS: When you started school GH: Yeah I started first grade GS: First grade GH: Yeah my sister, oldest sister, brought me in and set me down and walked out of the room and that was in- that was bad news. (Laughter) GS: Bad thing to do to a little guy GH: Yeah GS: Okay well what about junior high, [Indecipherable] GH: Well junior high, let' ; s see. What' ; d we do in junior high? JH: Lots to do with the farming or the, whatever [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah, FFA, I had a lot of FFA stuff there. GS: Okay, was that through the school? GH: Yeah, Mr. Pow (ph) taught us, we had a lot of shows [Indecipherable] One time I had this pig that I was gonna show, I had it in the back of the trailer, I was gonna take it out to the fairgrounds, but the thing got out, so I chased it all over the world out there. But I finally got it back in the trailer and it died. GS: Aww GH: And my brother wanted it butchered and I said " ; We can' ; t butcher that, that' ; s my hog" ; So we didn' ; t even get the meat from it GS: OH, what caused it to die? GH: Oh it just go exhausted running around over all the [Indecipherable] tryna get it back in that trailer, it just- for a pig nothing before me I' ; m not chasing it (Laughter) GS: Alright what about high school? GH: Oh high school, yeah we had a lot of fun in high school. We did all kinds of dumb stuff in High School GS: Were you into sports like Jim was? GH: No, I-- reason I couldn' ; t get into sports cause I' ; d have to ride the bus home GS: [Indecipherable] GH: They did everything after school GS: Yes GH: And if I stayed for sports, I' ; d have to walk home, because I didn' ; t have any transportation GS: I' ; ve heard that story several times too GH: Yeah, but later in High School I finally got me a car so JH: But you' ; d have any- you were in band. GH: Oh yeah I played, yeah I tried [Indecipherable] GS: What did you play in band? GH: I played the clarinet GS: Clarinet, I played the clarinet too GH: Is that right? GS: Yeah, who was your band director? GH: [Indecipherable] Fusco, Fusco (ph) GS: He was mine also GH: Is that right? Yeah JH: Oh she is older than she looks (Laughter) GS: Hey I graduated in 72' ; JH: That' ; s a long ways from 50' ; s. [Indecipherable] those old guys hung around forever GS: Yes they did GH: Yeah I forgot about that, yeah JH: No that' ; s another thing [Indecipherable] here, a lot of times, you' ; ve got the different classes of this n' ; that n' ; other. The athletes are here, ya know GH: Yeah JH: And the band people are here, and that n' ; other. Well he was in band and I was in sports, but we' ; re the best buds since you could ever ask for GS: That' ; s wonderful JH: And I don' ; t know exactly why he liked me GH: Ah, well we hunted a lot, we' ; d went huntin' ; and fishin' ; GS: Ah, you had that in common GH: Yeah, we used to go out and get the pecans, ya know, during Christmas time you had to have money. GS: Yes GH: If you' ; s gonna buy anything for anybody. GS: Yes GH: So we' ; d go out pickin' ; pecans up GS: Uh-huh GH: Sell them and picked them up on the halved out at the, north of town. And this guy, he let us pick them up on the halves. So we got a little money to buy a gift. GS: Now what does that mean by pick them up on the halves? GH: Well, like you' ; d pick up two of them and he gets one of them. GS: Okay, I kinda thought that' ; s what it meant (Laughter) GS: But just in case GH: Cause it' ; s his pecans, but you was doin' ; the labor for him so, yeah. But most of them didn' ; t even do it on, most of them only done it on the thirds. GS: Oh okay GH: But he did it with us on the halves, yeah GS: Good for him GH: Yeah GS: So GH: But we hunted and Jim wasn' ; t- he came out hunting, we hunted together. GS: Okay, what did you hunt? GH: Squirrel and rabbit GS: Okay GH: Eat them too GS: Okay GH: Yeah, people don' ; t even eat squirrel today GS: No, no GH: Wouldn' ; t even think about killing one of them lil' ; GS: Cute little fluffy things GH: Yeah running around on top of the house. The rabbit out in this yard, yeah [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: Wanna talk about global warming GS: Yes GH: We had, of course we were very short then too, but we' ; d have snow, ya know, up to your knee, and it' ; d be on there for several days, weeks maybe. GS: True GH: But today, if you get a little, ya know two-inch snow, it' ; s gone the next day and nobody thinks about it. So it has to be something to do with global warming. GS: I imagine it does. I imagine it does. JH: (Laughter) [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Are you an environmentalist? GH: No, not really. GS: Not, not really. GH: Not really. GS: Okay, any other memories from High School? GH: High school, no, yeah like I was telling you a while ago that going there in the twelfth grade I was [Inaudible] GS: Okay now you were in band, did you ever go to the tri state music festival? GH: Yes, yes I did. GS: Was that a bit highlight in your year? GH: That was a big highlight but I was never a very good player. GS: Oh GH: I remember I kinda just-- mediocre, ya know. GS: Uh-huh. GH: But we had a good band though. We had a band [Indecipherable] we went to tri state, where was that up in GS: Enid GH: Enid, yeah, you' ; re right. GS: I went so (Laughter) GH: Yeah, yeah we went up there GS: Yeah. Okay and now I know that Jim went to a church as a child, did you go to church as a child? GH: My mother I understand was really a stout Christian, and she' ; d took us to church every day. Dad didn' ; t go, but, but then I was baptized at the first Baptist church here in Bristow. GS: Okay, do you remember who your pastor was? GH: Day GS: Day? JH: Vernon Day (ph) GH: Vernon day, yeah. Yeah he was the pastor and I really remember going home and telling dad that I' ; d got baptized that day, and I' ; ll tell ya a little story about him too, he was [Indecipherable] because I was, I still remember today, of course we always would. But Whenever my mother passed away, we had these do gooders that' ; d come in from JH: Oh boy GH: Come out there and they were gonna- one of them was with the government. And they were gonna take the kids and divide them up GS: Oh no GH: Oh yeah. So he took a little gun, a shot gun to run them off. We never seen them since. GS: Well good, yeah. That' ; s horrible! GH: Yeah they come out there " ; Well you can' ; t take care of those kids" ; GS: Oh my goodness GH: So he' ; d run them off GS: Well good for him GH: We' ; d see them in the fence GS: Well good, that' ; s a good thing. Were you baptized in the church? GH: Yes, baptized in [Indecipherable] GS: I mean in the church physically GH: In the church, in the church yeah. GS: Okay, do you have any good memories of church growing up? Well I mean like, special events or anything, plays, choir, whatever. GH: Well I was- in the high school I was in a play. I was in, what you call, [Indecipherable] GS: Oh okay! GH: Yeah and I was the sergeant [Indecipherable] They' ; d tell my dad to come too GS: Oh [Indecipherable] GH: And I' ; d say " ; Yeah we can, we can- church" ; let' ; s see, thinking, of course they had to give [Indecipherable]. Christmas time they' ; d do that, an orange, an apple, and then [Indecipherable] candles GS: Yeah. So you were in this play in high school, were you in speech, drama, and debate? GH: No, I don' ; t exactly how I got into it, they just needed somebody and they had a competition and they picked, I don' ; t remember exactly why I was, cause I wasn' ; t in speech GS: Can you tell me anything about the entertainment that we had in Bristow? GH: Entertainment, oh yeah we had three, two- two shows GS: Okay GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Okay GH: And one drive in theater out at the-- GS: Pirate drive in GH: Pirate drive in, take my little 39' ; ford and fold out seat. The back of it was welded, the trunk was welded shut, it had this seat to get into-- you had to raise the seat to get in the back of-- you had to pile in the back of there, and close the seat down. Drive to the window JH: Pay for one (Laughter) GH: Pay for one person JH: He' ; s to confessing now GS: I see that, I see that. Well now that I think about once a week, didn' ; t they have a- you know, everybody could stuff into the car for so much? JH: That was after our time GS: What about on the fourth of July, did they have the special event there? GH: We had-- well we did. We went out at the park GS: Okay GH: Most-- a lot of families. And we went out to the car ; we had tubs of ice [Indecipherable] That' ; s the only day of the year you ever got all 71 to drink. You didn' ; t care, you' ; d just go get you one, open it, drink it, this was on the 4th of July. Then that evening, they would have the fireworks. GS: Okay GH: Yeah we always had a good time at the [Indecipherable] GS: Well sure GH: Fun things they' ; d play GS: Yeah GH: There were several things get from the country [Inaudible] GS: Were there any other events like that that Bristow did back then that you can remember? JH: I can add one GH: Okay JH: Right now, what you' ; re thinking about the amphitheater, which I been to in the last two or three years. They still have a little bit of stuff out, but when I was young we was there and I can remember a gal in a wheelchair that one evening they were having a musical or whatever thing she sang " ; I' ; ll Never Walk Alone" ; You' ; ll never walk alone GS: Aww JH: So I' ; ve always-- that song' ; s always meant so much to me and all, but she had had polio I guess is what is was those days GS: Yeah JH: I' ; m glad that they' ; re using the amphitheater again a little bit GS: Yes, we are too JH: Yeah GS: It' ; s a good asset for the city of Bristow JH: And then we used to cross the street from that on the south side had the barns where we' ; d had the county fair-- not the county fair GH: No, the city fair GS: Oh no county fair was there JH: I thought it was GS: It was, we had the creek country fair there until they moved it to Sapulpa JH: Yeah GH: They used to have rodeos there when I was in school GS: Yes, yes they did GH: And parades, lots and lots of parades all the time JH: And they used to have carnivals out in that area, and one thing about [Indecipherable] maybe it was Porsche, Gerald I don' ; t know how we' ; re gonna decide who' ; s the [Indecipherable] and all, but I went there-- GH: [Indecipherable] (Laughter) JH: I was in about the third or fourth grade I went with Peggy Durham and her older, little bit older, friend and the three of us went to the fair and we was wanting to ride a ride. Well, all I had was a nickel or dime and so they pitched said " ; Well let' ; s just pitch our money all together and we can ride" ; So they pitched the money together and the three of us got to ride the Ferris wheel or something and so, you know (Laughter) GH: [Indecipherable] I never claimed to be poor because I didn' ; t know I was poor GS: Exactly, you know I thought-- JH: It' ; s the way it is GH: It' ; s the way it was GS: I think most people back then didn' ; t consider themselves poor, ya know. They had enough to eat, they had clothes on their back, and they were happy. GH: Absolutely, back then [Indecipherable] GS: Yup, yup. Can' ; t ask for much more than that. Did you ever have to go to the doctor when you were a kid? GH: Yeah I had to go- went to Doctor King of course GS: Yes GH: Talked about that a while ago GS: Uh-huh GH: About [Inaudible] GS: Okay GH: And they' ; d come to the school some and they' ; d- I know GS: Okay GH: I remember Crest- Crest toothpaste would give you a crest toothpaste and a toothbrush, and- GS: I' ; d forgotten that GH: And they gave that to us and, you know, take care of your teeth. And when I was in the service, first day I was in the service at boot camp, the guy says " ; How do you brush your teeth?" ; and of course I didn' ; t have any ideas. He said " ; Well the way you brush them is to brush them up and down" ; GS: Uh-huh GH: And so I brushed my teeth up and down ever since then GS: Sure GH: Then I went to dental school over here in Oklahoma City, and this doctor came in and said " ; How do you brush your teeth?" ; and I said " ; I brush them up and down" ; and he said " ; Well how come you do that?" ; and I said " ; Well that' ; s what I learned in the service, how to brush my teeth" ; . So he put it in his books, and you get his books now they have how to brush your teeth and brush them up and down. GS: I' ; ve heard that it should be up and down and not back and forth GH: Yeah, and the reason for- you know what the reason for that is? GS: No GH: Because you get your gums GS: I see GH: Gums down and massages your gum GS: Okay GH: And that' ; s what keeps your teeth in GS: Okay JH: Hmm GH: I' ; ve got all my teeth JH: Hmm GH: What JH: I just said ' ; Hmm' ; (Laughter) JH: Just thinking here, no yeah, Hmm GH: Well [Indecipherable] GS: Can you tell me anything else about entertainment in Bristow when you were growing up? GH: Let' ; s see GS: I know you didn' ; t get to come in often from the farm GH: No, swim. We used to come in and swim on special, I think it' ; s Saturdays maybe, I don' ; t know. GS: Was that at the silver plunge?JH: Silver plunge GH: Yeah, yeah GS: Okay GH: When we swam, of course we swam around ponds and [Inaudible] GS: And now GH: Swam in a lot of ponds and lakes GS: Yes, uh-huh. Yesterday in an interview I did, the man was telling me that there was a, of course the skating rink GH: Oh yeah, I forgot about that JH: Mhm GS: And that in the wintertime for a few years they had bowling on that skating rink floor. Do you-- either one of you remember that? JH: No GH: Barely, skating rink barely GS: Did you ever go skating in the rink?JH: Oh yeah, yeah yeah GS: Were you pretty good? JH: Well, I learned. GH: After many falls [Inaudible] GS: Yeah JH: Better now to stay up GS: Did you ever climb that long stairway up to the bathroom with your skates on? (Laughter) GH: Oh, I guess so, guess so. I forgot about that skating rink JH: I did too, it' ; s been on Facebook things here recently. GS: Did you ever go as a group, or did you just go individually? GH: We would go individually, I' ; d just [Inaudible] GS: Yeah. What about you, did you ever go Jim? JH: A few time, but I wasn' ; t a good skater at all GS: Aw okay GH: [Inaudible] Also it we used to skate the ponds, [Indecipherable] the ponds would freeze over GS: Yes GH: [Indecipherable] ice GS: Thick ice GH: And you could get on then and so my dad bought me a pair of ice skates GS: Yes JH: Hmm GH: And so I get that [Inaudible] of course I [Indecipherable] back then (Laughter) GS: As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? GH: Old GS: Amen GH: Now I' ; m old. [Indecipherable] I guess I wanted to be a cowboy GS: A cowboy? GH: [Inaudible] I always wanted to be [Inaudible] and stuff GS: Right GH: Silver [Inaudible] GS: Very romanticized image of the cowboy GH: Right GS: What was your first job other than farm? GH: Other than farm? GS: Yeah GH: Probably mechanic GS: Okay GH: My brother had a mechanic shop GS: Okay GH: There at the high school, in fact GS: Oh GH: And right there in the high school. And I worked for him at nights after school GS: Okay GH: He said " ; you' ; re doing a great job" ; and [Inaudible] JH: I' ; ll share a little bit of something here about we didn' ; t get into my first job and all. I was- first of all selling papers said ten and eleven, selling papers on the street GS: Okay JH: And back to the California people ; they come through, we had parking meters that you put your nickel, dime, or throw a pen there and pens turn the crank and it' ; d go down. But somebody taught us that if you chew gum and stick it up in there, then they would stick it up in there and crank and [Indecipherable] go on in J& ; J Café (ph) or in the Hamburger Shop and we could come along with a pocket knife and flip out the [Indecipherable]. But also I sold papers as I said on the street and I' ; d go in the pool hall and I' ; d go up to guys playing their dominos and everything, said " ; Well paper paper! Paper paper!" ; and no and one said " ; I can' ; t read" ; another woger (ph) said " ; C' ; mere" ; when they tell you that, you tell them " ; Well can you smell?" ; " ; Well yeah it' ; s all BS anyway" ; (Laughter) JH: So yeah you' ; re bringing back- we' ; re having memory time here GH: I will tell ya about the Oklahoma Times Supply (ph) GS: Oh yes GH: Well I guess one of the last ones, first job. It' ; s Christmas time they had flowers. GS: Uh-huh GH: And I delivered the flowers all over, part of it not all the city, but it was part of the city GS: Sure GH: The guy who worked with me, he' ; d throw his in the trash, in the trash JH: Nooo GH: And he wouldn' ; t deliver his GS: Well shame on him! GH: Yeah I know! GS: He wasn' ; t doing an honest day' ; s work for his job, was he? GH: No GS: He was not GH: Well he' ; d make fun of me JH: Told ya that sin and nature started a long time ago GS: Did you- do you have anything else on your paper there about any of the business or entertainment in Bristow that you? GH: Well yeah I tell you today about this John Sukabody (ph) guy, I don' ; t know GS: I' ; ve heard of the Sukabodys, but I don' ; t know much JH: Ohhh, feed store GH: He had a feed store GS: Yes JH: Yeah GS: Sukabody feed store GH: There on main street. Well he-- he hired little boys during the summer, worked at JR Childress (ph) [Inaudible] GS: Okay GH: And we got to be pretty good-- he was a really nice guy ; course he drank a lot [Inaudible]. But he was really a nice guy. So anyway when I got out of service, I was in there talking to him one day and I [indecipherable] any idea of what I was gonna do. But I knew it was gonna be brutal cause I went in to get the GI bill for school GS: Right GH: So he-- I said " ; I don' ; t know" ; I said " ; I' ; m thinking about going into plumbing" ; He said " ; Oh no" ; he said " ; You don' ; t wanna go into plumbing" ; he said " ; That' ; s a cold job, dirty job. What you need to get into is electronics" ; says " ; You' ; ve got air conditioning, you' ; ve got everything you need right there" ; So that sounded pretty good to me, so that' ; s what I did. I went in, went to school for [Indecipherable] electronics at OSU in Okmulgee GS: At Okmulgee, uh-huh, yeah JH: I [Indecipherable] forgot about that [Inaudible] GS: So did you do the two-year thing? GH: Oh yeah I did the two-years, got a job with the government, stayed in JH: Quite a successful [Indecipherable] I might add GH: Yeah, I thought life was pretty good with electronics, but I can' ; t even turn the radio on now. Can' ; t even-- can' ; t even operate my phone JH: Yeah I know GH: And I-- I was pretty sharp with electronics GS: It' ; s a different world now GH: Well you keep up with it GS: Yeah GH: [Indecipherable] Anyway that' ; s [Inaudible] GS: So is that how you made your living for years as an electrician? GH: Not electrician, electronics. GS: Electronics GH: Yes GS: Okay GH: Yeah I was in it for [indecipherable] Went to work for the government after I got out of OSU GS: Okay GH: [Inaudible] GS: Yeah OSU GH: yeah GS: Tech, school of technical training, yes GH: I got myself a social degree GS: Okay, yeah GH: So that' ; s what I got [Indecipherable] He said " ; What do you got?" ; I said " ; I' ; ve got two years' ; college" ; he said " ; No you' ; ve got a social degree" ; GS: There ya go GH: So [Indecipherable] social degree, one step up GS: There ya go GH: Anyway, I went to work for them then I went to work for-- Well I might tell you this story. Contract Administration, we would go out-- too much time? GS: No I just like to make sure it' ; s still running because I' ; ve had the battery go dead on me before GH: Oh, anyway, [Indecipherable] and went to work as a contract administrator. We were the ones who bought product for the government. Ya know, five-thousand-dollar hammer GS: Uh-huh GH: And get your groceries for fifty cents. Anyway, we bought those kinds of products. Well one of the products was [Inaudible] went to the moon. And what they did was they took some metal out to the moon with them and come back and made these little medallions saying " ; Moon Shop" ; GS: Oh yes GH: And the contractor that I was working with made the clothes, made the suits GS: Oh how wonderful GH: And so I was the guy that bought those suits, so anyway I got one of those with me [Indecipherable] GS: Oh that' ; s a wonderful keepsake GH: Yeah, I still- I can' ; t tell you where it is right now but I know I' ; ve still GS: But you' ; ve got it JH: You' ; ve got it (Laughter) GS: You' ; re sure of that GH: Anyway, that' ; s among some of the other things. But I had a lot of experience in that field GS: Sure GH: Ya know, all the products that they bought I bought them from American Lines to-- GS: So who did you work for at that time? GH: Worked for the federal government GS: For the federal government, okay GH: Contract Administration GS: Okay GH: DLA (ph) GS: Okay, very good. Okay so any other businesses or anything else you' ; ve got written on that paper you wanna tell me about? JH: While he' ; s lookin' ; I' ; ll tell you about my first job other than selling newspaper and delivering newspapers over the street. I was carrying five gallons of ice cream from the Locker Plant down to the Palace Drug where I worked for a short period of time. GS: Okay JH: With one of his aunts GS: Oh JH: Anyway, yeah Palace Drug GS: And you had to make sure that ice cream didn' ; t melt, didn' ; t ya JH: Yeah ya had to walk fast GH: What was that other one right there on North end of town? That little ol' ; - JH: The other what? GH: Café. Was it Ki-way (ph) GS: Ki-way Café? JH: Oh Hi-Café was good, yeah GH: is that the one on the north? GS: It was on the north JH: It was by the Locker Plant GS: North of ninth and main GH: Yeah JH: Yeah GH: Yeah GS: Yeah, that was a good place to eat GH: Yeah that was- I don' ; t remember that GS: Did you eat there often? GH: Oh I didn' ; t have nothing to eat GS: Yeah GH: I was in there a lot, but I didn' ; t-- cause somebody else was in there but GS: Yeah GH: But no I didn' ; t eat there very much. GS: yeah GH: I' ; ll tell ya about my first loan GS: Okay GH: At Bristow Community Bank GS: Okay GH: I went in there to get a loan, I wanted to buy a car. Well, they-- one of the banks wouldn' ; t loan it to me and I went to the other bank anyway. And I had [Indecipherable] for collateral, had to put my vehicle up for collateral. Then I went to buy insurance, and I went down to this friend of ours, so called, and State Farm. I said " ; I need to get some insurance" ; said " ; I' ; m not selling you any insurance" ; he says " ; You' ; s like a pig in a puddle" ; I' ; m like ' ; Okay' ; so GS: Well GH: Yeah I don' ; t know why he [Indecipherable], called me a catfish and called me all kinds of stuff GS: Well he didn' ; t want business very badly, did he? GH: [Indecipherable] I guess GS: I guess not GH: I kept thinking, his wife was [Indecipherable] she' ; s the one who took care of the girls and all kinds of things. Anyway, went in finally and when I went over to Allstate, and bought-- they sold me insurance for the car and then [Inaudible] GS: Well good GH: People are people GS: Yes, yup, yeah you never can predict them a lot of times. So what branch of the service were you in? GH: I was in the air force GS: In the air force? And what was your-- what were your duties there? GH: My duties in the air force I' ; ll tell ya that story. I went in and [Indecipherable] and I were friend, we lived out in [Indecipherable] county. Anyway, we went in, the recruiter says " ; Okay you boys can stay together. While you were in the service, we decided that you boys are really good" ; . Well we went- we worked together one night in base ; we went into basic training, got through with that. 8th Air force police force, 8th Air force police. We got wiped out in ol' ; Korea. So this whole platoon went into the air police except one. It was [Indecipherable]. Him and ol' ; [Indecipherable]. GS: Wouldn' ; t you know GH: Yeah, yeah I was in the air police, then from there I went to the canine school, and I had a canine, [Inaudible]. Reason I had a canine is cause I didn' ; t wanna go overseas. GS: Yeah, yeah I don' ; t blame ya there GH: I was like " ; Ehh" ; GS: Now this was in the late fifties, so Vietnam might have been looming on the horizon, wasn' ; t it? GH: Right at the end, right at the end. In 58' ; maybe GS: Well Vietnam ended in the early seventies GH: Not Vietnam, Korea GS: Korea GH: Maybe I said Vietnam GS: Yeah I said Vietnam, you were thinking Korea GH: Korea, yeah Korea GS: Yeah at the end of the Korean war so you might have had to have gone to Korea if you hadn' ; t done the canine thing. GH: Yeah GS: Well that was a smart move GH: Yeah that' ; s what I thought too GS: Yeah JH: But the dang dog like to eat [Inaudible] GS: Wasn' ; t your best friend? GH: No that dog I had he was mean as could be. When I' ; d go on vacation, they had to put a chain on his food bowl, they wouldn' ; t even go in there and feed him. GS: Oh my goodness GH: And they put a chain on his bowl to pull it out, put food in it, put it back in there. GS: You never couldn' ; t nicen him up?GH: No he would bite ya, he would- I' ; d give him a command he would growl at me. GS: Aww GH: Then I had to keep a muzzle on him anytime we was around any other dogs. GS: Aw, that' ; s a shame GH: But he was a good- GS: So what were they trained for? GH: They were trained for patrol GS: Okay, and did you take yours out on patrol? GH: Oh yeah, yeah every night GS: Did he make believers out of people? GH: Yeah, oh yes. (Laughter) GH: Yeah, the way they trained him of course, ya know, [Indecipherable] he' ; d be hiding out there in the woods somewhere in the grass, and the dog had to sniff him out. JH: Ohh JH: Attack them [Indecipherable] But anyway the reason I got out of service, I was thinking about staying in for four years, but they let me on post. They didn' ; t pick me up come daylight, they had to come pick the dogs up at daylight GS: Oh GH: So they never come pick me up, so about 8 O' ; clock I kept hollering and blowing the whistle. So finally I just walked up there to the shop, said I' ; d take me-- I was up in Clinton, Oklahoma at that time. It was at base at Altus and Altus was doing [Indecipherable] and they were sending us up to Clinton. So I walked in there and said " ; I' ; m good now [Indecipherable] Check me out" ; . So they sent me back down to the Altus [Indecipherable]. So that' ; s how I got out. GS: Aw, I guess it was you had been in there long enough to- you could do that too GH: I guess I' ; d learned then that- I learned then didn' ; t I? GS: I guess you did! Teach them to leave you on post! GH: Yeah they could be [Indecipherable] JH: You never do [Indecipherable] GH: But they had to put the dogs up anyway. GS: Yup, Did I miss something Jim? JH: Yeah, the bootleggers GS: Oh the bootleggers! We mentioned them but we didn' ; t go any further! Tell me about the bootleggers, one of ya. GH: Well the bootleggers- GS: Well you talked about buying the white lightening and then feeling guilty about spending the buck on it GH: Yeah, well it wasn' ; t my dollar, it was my dad' ; s dollar. GS: Yeah JH: No Frank Junie (ph) lived down the road from me, and everybody knew he was a bootlegger, and his daughter married a bootlegger whose name was Smith who lived across from J& ; J Café upstairs. But anyway, Frank had a boat with a cover over it and he' ; d go to Missouri and pick it up and come back so-- otherwise you drove one of these big cars and loaded it down the back end the highway patrol would stop you and then take all your merchandise GS: So are you saying he kept his white lightening in the boat? JH: No it wasn' ; t white lightening, it' ; s just liquor GS: Oh, that was bought JH: That' ; s right, yeah. And then the Texco (ph) Café somebody told me to-- was it you or somebody else that [Indecipherable] No, Jonny Baker, whoever run the Texco (ph) Café that' ; s where people stopped driving through from Chicago to California and need some liquor and they need to call over and Frank would bring it over to them and all GS: Okay JH: Yeah, but we- GS: And was that during prohibition or? JH: Oh yeah, it' ; s yeah. GS: Yup GH: I forgot to tell you about wheat harvest GS: Tell me about that wheat harvest GH: Wheat harvest, yeah we went to wheat harvest up in Kansas GS: Yes GH: And I drove the truck up there GS: Uh-huh GH: To wheat harvest. [Indecipherable] International truck GS: Yes GH: Stick, shift gears GS: Uh-huh GH: Come up [Indecipherable] had to hold it down and shift the gears. Anyway, of course he couldn' ; t afford to get a [Indecipherable], take the time out to get it fixed, he had to do it this weekend. Anyway, so when we got wheat done, we had bailed stubble, and then you cut the wheat about [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh GH: And then we had all this stubble. And he was bailing it, and the way they bailed it was they bailed it then run it off on another run. [Indecipherable] half the thing, and then they' ; d this pole, put it down in the ground, and hold it against them- push the bails off the skid. GS: Okay GH: Well I wasn' ; t big enough or strong enough, so when they put me on that one the thing tumbled on top of me GS: Oh no! GH: Rod came down, so the guy says " ; You need to go home" ; [Indecipherable] the wheat harvest then come home (Laughter) GS: Oh my goodness, Well, I know that wasn' ; t easy work and I do know a lot of young men did the wheat harvest too GH: Oh yeah JH: It' ; s pretty good money [Indecipherable] GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Yup, can' ; t beat that. Anything else that you can think of that we haven' ; t hit on Gerald? GH: No, but I was gonna tell you about the money though back when I went into service, I had a little money in the bank and I didn' ; t figure I' ; d ever come back to the service [Inaudible]. Anyway I gave all the money I had to my dad to put water into the house, when we lived down on the farm GS: aww, yes GH: And then I went on in the service, [Indecipherable] I came back. GS: Yeah. So you graduated in 54' ; and is that when you went into the service? GH: Yes, yeah GS: Okay, and you got the GI bill, you got your education paid for, and you went to Okmulgee. GH: I wouldn' ; t say it was paid for, I starved to death there too. My wife worked, we went to Okmulgee GS: Uh-huh GH: My wife worked in the library, and [Indecipherable] I worked for fifty cents an hour GS: Yes GH: Up there at the [Indecipherable]. Oh I' ; ll tell you about that story. One night we put the money, after you work and [Indecipherable] and you put it in wall. Well, you' ; d put it in a sack and drop it down the wall [Indecipherable]. Well one day, we came around and money wasn' ; t there. But I wasn' ; t working, the other guy was working. JH: [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah absolutely, but I had to pay for it anyway. But anyway, he accused us of stealing the money. I said " ; I didn' ; t steal, I don' ; t even have it, I don' ; t know what you' ; re talking about" ; so anyway we got with the cops and they put us in [Indecipherable], in a bag and put it behind this wall. Come to find out, this kid was watching and he' ; d climb through one of the windows right there and went over there and got the washers and they called. Well, he wanted us to pay and started making us pay a dollar a paycheck to pay that money back that he' ; d lost in that [Indecipherable] and I said- GS: And you didn' ; t even take it! GH: Did not! He just [Indecipherable] so that' ; s when I quit. GS: Well yes I would too. That just wasn' ; t right at all! I' ; m gonna ask you the same question I asked Jim. As you see it now, what are some of the biggest problems that face our nation and how do you think they could be solved? GH: Biggest problem that I can [Indecipherable] is selfishness GS: Yeah GH: People who haven' ; t had to work, are not working, they think the big government is gonna take care of them for the rest of their lives. Talking about giving them free college, and free this free that, which I think is wrong and way to turn that around is to give a persona a hand up instead of a hand out. GS: Give them an incentive GH: Give them something [Indecipherable] teach them out to fish and all that stuff GS: Exactly GH: And I think that' ; s what' ; s gonna have to take place, now whether it' ; s gonna take place or not, it' ; s very doubtful that the way that we' ; re running the government now that we' ; re doing anything right. People from these other countries come in ; Cartels are just eating us up down here, kids up, people up, costing us millions of dollars. And somebodies having to pay for all that. Anyway, I think the problem is that the government is getting too big to control for its own good. GS: Yeah, I have to agree with you there GH: And I think the only way you can change it is probably through elections. GS: Yup GH: If you can find [Indecipherable] GS: Amen, amen. Anything else you wanna tell me that I haven' ; t hit on or that you' ; ve got in your notes there that we didn' ; t hit on? GH: I think we covered just about everything, that' ; s what I think. JH: Well you' ; ve got a lot of stories now, don' ; t you? GS: Yes, we do. We have a lot of stories and it' ; s so fun doing this. It' ; s really nice to-- JH: And someday will I be able to get onto the internet and see something? GS: Yes, I can' ; t tell you when it' ; ll be. But there are some on there already, BristowHistoricalSociety.org, BristowHistoricalSociety.org. You can go on there and listen to some of them that are on there. We' ; ve got Mr Krumme JH: So, .BristowHistoricalSociety.org GS: .org JH: Okay GH: Of course [Indecipherable] Hamburger King, I don' ; t know if we ever talked about that. GS: We didn' ; t talk about Hamburger King, what are your memories of the Hamburger King? GH: Memories of the Hamburger King is that we met down there about every night GS: Uh-huh GH: Kids would meet there and have dates and all this kind of stuff. Then we' ; d come down there and reminisce once in a while. Of course I didn' ; t have a car at that time, I' ; d have to either catch a ride or walk home. GS: Right GH: And sometimes I could catch a ride and sometime I didn' ; t, so I' ; d have to walk home. But we' ; d- that' ; s a gathering spot for people [Indecipherable]. GS: Okay was it mostly for the younger generation? GH: Oh yeah, just for the high schoolers. GS: Yeah, well did they have music or anything like that? GH: I don' ; t remember having music in there, did we? JH: Only when Jonny Lee Wills or one of the big bands came through that' ; s always where they either stopped there or out at Lucian Tigers place where Luke Fry now lives out between Slick and Kellyville, they also had big parties out there. But yeah, the big country bands, Jonny Lee Wills, Bob Wills, and all of them, they would stop at Hamburger King GS: Yeah JH: Then the J& ; J Café was always fancy for the more wealthy people and all the society-- GS: To eat at JH: --that went to the J& ; J Café. But the black people I don' ; t remember if we mentioned or what but they had to park around at the back and knock on the door and the guy would come out and take their order and go back in and fix it and then bring it out and they had to eat in their car. But you know that' ; s why this route 66 in [Indecipherable] Chicago and went to where in California? GS: I don' ; t remember JH: Santa Maria, it wasn' ; t where people from Los Angelas, Santa-- GH: Santa? JH: No, Santa something or other, but anyway yeah there' ; s lots of memories from Hamburger King GS: Okay, alright well GH: Yeah we used to when Jim was talking about parking a wagon behind those stores, we did that, that' ; s how I came to get to go to town, by wagon. We either came there by horse, or walk, or wagon. GS: uh-huh GH: And sometimes you could catch a ride on the wagon, the wagon would come by and you' ; d run out there and get on the back of it and hitch you a ride to town GS: Well sure! GH: So you didn' ; t have to walk. So anyway, they parked it, you tied em up behind those stores and there had to be somebody down there with them all of the time because people would come in and steal stuff out of the wagon. GS: So were there more wagons or more automobiles? JH: [Indecipherable] more wagonsGS: More wagons at that time JH: Yeah more wagons, I don' ; t know [Inaudible] GH: There was also a little restaurant and a little hotel type thing down there, Donald Crawford, boy you' ; re really pulling up now, but it was there right across the ally and then there behind that behind Thorpe' ; s and the fay and [Indecipherable] was where all the wagons parked in there and left them, ya know, they just tied them up and walked-- take care of their business GS: What Block would that be Jim? JH: You know where the big café at sixth, right? GS: Uh-huh JH: Okay GS: Golden Eagle Café? JH: Yeah, right just east there to the back ally and then there and then run- yeah GS: Okay yeah I see, that' ; s really interesting. Well thank you both very much for coming today. I appreciate it so much Gerald. I' ; ve not had a chance to tell any of my neighbors that I said you' ; re related to that- or you told me you' ; re related to, I haven' ; t got a chance to tell them I' ; ve spoken with you so thank you very much, I really appreciate it. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml OHP-2021-17_Gerald_Henshaw.xml
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Gerald Henshaw
Description
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In this 2021 interview, Gerald Henshaw shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Jim Hurt. He discusses life on a farm, numerous jobs, and together Gerald and Jim share stories from their young adult lives.
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OHP-2021-17
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2021-06-30
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audio
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Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Georgia Smith
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jim Hurt
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml
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5.4 June 30, 2021 OHP-2021-16 Jim Hurt OHP-2021-16 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Jim Hurt Georgia Smith 1:|65(7)|128(9)|158(6)|215(5)|236(12)|252(1)|288(3)|334(2)|347(16)|385(15)|441(2)|466(6)|521(5)|581(1)|621(7)|658(10)|679(5)|721(2)|767(3)|801(1)|859(2)|927(10)|973(11)|999(12)|1019(14)|1055(10)|1083(4)|1113(2)|1169(8)|1217(2)|1249(7)|1285(2)|1328(12)|1370(12)|1400(9)|1455(9)|1496(3)|1535(2)|1577(12)|1608(2)|1637(14)|1658(12)|1690(6)|1748(11)|1798(10)|1841(3)|1895(2)|1928(6)|1984(2)|2027(5)|2063(12)|2090(18)|2115(3)|2127(14)|2146(10)|2181(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2021-16 Hurt, Jim.mp3.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and Family History GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I’m sitting here with Jim Hurst and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. Amy Hannah Higginbotham ; Brian Kelly Hurt ; Bruce Allen Hurt ; Deep Rock Oil Camp ; Gerald Guy Henshaw ; H.A Hugginbotham ; Jimmy Allen Hurt ; Joe Stiner ; Lovett School ; Mr. Medows ; O.D Thorpes Grocery Store ; Patricia Marie Hurt ; Poor Farm ; Route 66 ; Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/185143745/amy-h-hurst Amy H. Higginbotham Hurst https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157923094/norma-lee-wieberdink Norma Lee Hurt Weiberdink 253 Early Childhood GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old— GS: Oh. JH: —and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother’s dad and his— my grandmother lived across the road. Lovett school ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery Store O.D. Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277637/o-d-thorpe 561 Peanut Factory GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut— JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. Bill Bethel ; Peanut Capitol ; Peanut Capitol of the World ; peanut mill ; Peanuts 651 Early School Life GS: That’s— that’s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole— the tornado thing is still there, but the building— there’s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry — GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry— castle store ; Edison ; Edison school ; football ; grade school ; Jerry Riley ; Lovett ; Mr. Castle ; Mrs. Bean ; Mrs. Cake ; Mrs. Farbro ; Mrs. Liss ; Norma Lee ; Red Rover ; school ; second grade ; Washington ; Washington playground Jerry Garland Riley https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112945715/jerry-garland-riley Bill Bethel https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/31876265/bill-bethel 940 Church life GS: Okay. Okay, I’m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about— I’m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the— well what day and what time did you believe— well I’ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that’s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And— right down— well it’s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson’s (ph), and Dobson’s and on and on and on and so Assembly of God ; Baptized ; Christmas ; church life ; Deep Fork ; Depew ; Dobson ; Faith Bible Church ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Glenn Acres ; Highway 66 ; holiday events ; Kelly's Pond ; Lawton, Oklahoma ; Lovett ; Lucille Lott ; Meadow Hill ; Merdel Henry ; Pie Suppers ; Tulsa 1203 Medical Care GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors— JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don’t know if you knew who Doc king was. He— GS: I went to Doc King— black powder ; dentist ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Dr. Yourman ; medical care https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25205437/martin-alfred-yourman Martin Alfred Yourman 1294 Deep Rock Oil Camp GS: Let me, you’ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that’s just right across the road. You know, they— GH: From the cemetery. Deep Rock Camp ; Oil Camp ; Poor Farm Cemetery 1370 Childhood memories GS: Yeah. Okay, and you’ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn’t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don’t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you’re out and it’s hot and there’s a pool— a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn’t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can’t do anything about it. So— California ; Catfish Creek ; colored man ; Earl Hill ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; Lester Hill ; Pat Dillard ; race 1573 Local Businesses and Bootlegging GS: You’re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you’ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. bootlegging ; Cash Junk Store ; Cash's Junk Store ; Cox Bakery ; Dale Donuts ; Gold Eagle Cafe ; grocery store ; Jim Cox ; Lebanese immigrant ; McSude ; O.D butcher ; O.D Thorpe's Grocery ; Pawn Shop ; prohibition ; Thorpe Grocery ; White Lightening https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21277645/t-oneyta-thorpe Oneyta Thorpe https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/228193107/sonja-sue-starkey Sonja Sue Thorpe Starkey 2059 Ice Plant GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that’s this boys— GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was— back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they’d have three cool storage ; cooler vats ; Hustlee ; ice plant 2201 High School Years GS: Alright well let’s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren’t good enough but we got tired of that cause’ he wouldn’t ever let us play basketball ; Christmas time ; Curt Thompson ; Earl Hill ; extracurricular activities ; football ; high school ; High school shenanigans ; Jolie Craig ; water balloons ; watermelons ; wrestling 2439 Bristow Natives GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn’t see this backside here. Okay, I think I’ve got that one. You’ve got down here “Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)” JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they’re older. There’s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He’s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those Alcorns ; Bigpond Corner ; Bigponds ; coin purse ; first grade ; Freewill Baptist Church ; Gastons ; Indian purse ; Jerry Riley ; Joe Allen ; Mardel Henry ; Oil Business ; Paynes ; Tigers 2711 High School Activities GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don’t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you— were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh? 39' Ford ; Caroline Foster ; Claremore ; drive main street ; High school ; main street ; Mr. Bow ; Mrs. Foster ; Oscar Meyer ; Youth group 3005 Adult Life and Closing Thoughts GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in ‘54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn’t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and college ; military ; pandemic ; Rossland, New Mexico ; ROTC ; SH Crest Variety Store ; shots ; sin nature ; Stillwater, Oklahoma ; SunRay DX Oil Company ; Texas ; Tulsa, Oklahoma ; Union Calif In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years. Interviewer: Georgia Smith (GS) Interviewee: Jim Hurt (JH) Other Persons: Gerald Henshaw (GH) Date of Interview: June 30th 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is June 30th, 2021, and I' ; m sitting here with Jim Hurt and Gerald Henshaw who are going to tell me a little bit about their history in Bristow. Now, Jim could you give me your full name? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: Thank you, and Gerald? GH: Gerald Guy Henshaw. GS: Thank you. We' ; re going to begin mainly with Jim, but Gerald might chime in occasionally if he has something to add to the information that we' ; re doing. So Jim, what was your name at birth? JH: Jimmy Allen Hurt. GS: And where were you born? JH: Two miles east-- or west of Bristow. Just south of the Deep Rock Oil Camp there at-- near where the old farm used to be. GS: And what old farm is that? JH: Poor Farm. GS: Your-- JH: Poor Farm. GH: Poor Farm JH: The Old Poor Farm GS: Okay. JH: Out by the cemetery-- GS: Yeah. JH: Poor Cemetery out on 66. GS: Yes. JH: My dad used to keep-- keep that up. GS: Oh he did? JH: Yeah. GS: How long ago was that? JH: Oh it was probably when I was in high school. GS: Okay so in the early 50' ; s? JH: 50' ; s, yes. Yeah. GS: That' ; s-- that' ; s interesting. Were you born in the home or in the hospital? JH: In the house. GS: In the house? Was it a midwife or doctor? Do you know? JH: I do not know. GS: Have no idea. What were your parent' ; s names? Oh, let me back up. What day were you born? JH: October the 4th 1934. GS: Thank you. And what were your parents' ; names? Let' ; s start with your mother' ; s maiden name. JH: Amy Hannah Higginbotham. GS: Okay (Chuckling). JH: Evert Hurt. H-U-R-T. GS: Okay, and thank you for spelling that. Do you happen to know about when they were married? JH: No. GS: That' ; s okay. Or where they were married? Were they living here? JH: I don' ; t know. GS: Have no idea. Do you know when they might have come to this area? JH: Well, my grandpa Higginbotham brought his whole family here in-- from Kentucky and because he had a sister that married Mr. Meadows (ph) that lived out south of town so that' ; s why he came here. Because she said, " ; Come here Andy. You need to come here and get rich in the white cotton fields of Oklahoma." ; GS: Oh. JH: And he did come, but he didn' ; t get rich, but-- GS: Ah. JH: --he did lose an eye. Was farming with the corn when a corn stock hit ' ; em in the eye and he was blind in one eye. H.A. Higginbotham. GS: H.A. Higg-- and it' ; s Higginbotham, could you spell that? JH: H-i-g-g-i-n-b-o-t-h-a-m. GS: Thank you very much. I' ; m glad you ask it, ' ; cause I would' ; ve spelled it differently. (Laughter) GS: Alright, how many children did your parents have? JH: Oh, I don' ; t know. (Chuckling) Eight or nine? I don' ; t ever-- GS: Okay. Are your-- are your siblings, and of them still here? JH: No. GS: Okay. What did your father do? JH: He was a tank builder with Deep Rock Oil Company. GS: Okay. Do you happen to know who owned Deep Rock Oil Company back then? JH: No. GS: Yeah, that' ; s okay. JH: Mm-hmm. GS: And what about your mother, was she a stay at home mom? JH: Yes. GS: Very good. Are you married, Jim. JH: No, I' ; m single. GS: Okay. Have you been married? JH: Yes. GS: What was your spouse' ; s name? JH: My children' ; s mothers name was Patricia Marie Hurt, or Jackson from Depew, Oklahoma where Gerald went to find his wife also. GS: Oh cool! JH: And some of us got-- GH: Prettiest girls in the country. GS: Prettiest girls in the country. Well my parents were from there, so I won' ; t disagree. (Laughter) JH: Who was the other guy that friend of yours that lived out there? GH: Stiner. JH: Oh (Chuckling) Joe Stiner. GH: Joe Stiner. Yeah, he married a Depew girl. GS: Well. (Laughter) GS: And how many children did you have? JH: I have three. GS: Three children. What are their names? JH: Teresa Gayle Hurt Bowls (ph) and Bruce Allen Hurt (ph), and Brian Kelly Hurt, (ph). GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you at home when you were young growing up. JH: My mother left my dad when I was three years old-- GS: Oh. JH: --and I was the youngest of five children and we moved out by Lovett (ph) School. Five miles out Highway 16, toward Slick and we had like forty acres out there. And my grandpa Higginbotham, my mother' ; s dad and his-- my grandmother lived across the road. And so he cut the wood, chopped the wood for us to do and he plowed-- made and raised the corn and fixed our garden and so forth some. So he was the help there, but I have many memories of living there. And then I started school there at Lovett (ph) School and they-- a two room school house for first through the eighth grades and we lived there until 1942 when the World War II started. The oldest brother Jack went to the army. My sister, Norma was named Wieberdink, now is deceased, but she quit school and went to work in Tulsa and so it just left me and mom and the three older brothers and the middle brother, Harry who we call Buddy died of-- his appendix burst and had Gangrene and died at the age of fifteen-- GS: Aww. JH: --which is pretty hard on mom. GS: Well yes. JH: So that-- then that left Donnie, older brother just older than me, and myself and then Don was killed in Korea in 1952, so it was just me and mom and I worked. You talked-- asked what my childhood life was like. I worked at O.D Thorpe' ; s Grocery Store. I delivered groceries for him. GS: Alright. JH: And so-- but she made twenty-five dollars a week and she walked to-- to work every day and back home every day. And then-- GS: And what is it she did again? JH: She was a clerk at O.D. Thorpe' ; s grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: And one of the guys that worked there also said she was strong as any man he had ever seen. So-- GS: Wow. JH: --I had no trouble with discipline. I knew how to behave and how she took care of things. But she was a very strong spiritually, mentally, and physically woman and all. So I had a great life. I' ; ve been blessed. GS: So when she left your father, you went with your mother? JH: Oh yes-- GS: Yes. JH: --all five. All five of us did. GS: All five of you did. JH: Yeah. GS: Okay. Okay, I was a little confused on that part. JH. K. GS: Did you have-- did each of the kids have a bedroom? Did you have to share bedrooms growing up? JH: Well like I said, about the time I was eight, we did until then. And I don' ; t remember a whole lot about that-- before that-- but after that it was just mom and I. So-- GS: Yeah. JH: When we were out in the country, I don' ; t remember that much. GS: So were you the youngest? JH: Yes, I was the baby as they call it. GS: Aww, he was the baby. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Was your mom a good cook? JH: Oh. No she didn' ; t cook. She fried everything. Steaks she fried-- (Laughter) JH: Whatever it was, we fried. And yes, she was a good enough cook and all that, but yeah. GS: Alright. (Laughter) GS: Where did she shop for groceries? JH: At O.D. Thorpe' ; s. Where she-- GS: At O.D. Thorpe' ; s. (Laughter) JH: Yes. GS: What all did O.D. Thorpe' ; s sell? JH: Everything. He had-- he bought the wholesale was-- I forget the wholesalers name here but we-- we had their own shelves. And O.D. was his own butcher. He had his own butchers back in the back and then everything was mostly on credit, and you' ; d just come in and bought and he wrote it down on the ticket and whatever they bought you put that in a file. Then at the end of the month when the people got their poor checks, or people got money, they come in and pay off that bill and everything. But it' ; s the same old thing with the green beans and corn and whatever and you had pop in the icebox that you raised up the lid and there was water in there with ice in it and you got your bottle of pop out and you drank your bottle of pop. But memories of the grocery store, people used to come and even sit on the ledge out beside there on Saturdays and whatever. And there' ; s some things, I won' ; t tell you about all that went on when people got drunk-- GS: Oh yeah. GH: (Chuckling) JH: Somebody would get drunk and the police would come get ' ; em and put ' ; em-- wouldn' ; t want to get in the car, and they' ; d kind of push ' ; em in the car and they' ; d hold on like this and they' ; d throw-- just slam the door on its fingers. GS: Oh my word. JH: Lets don' ; t go through all that. My memories-- GH: I don' ; t know-- (Laughter) GS: Talk about police brutality, huh? (Laughter) GS: Okay, well now tell me about the peanuts in this area. I know that Bristow was supposedly the peanut-- JH: Peanut Capitol of the world. GS: Yes. JH: And had the big building down there, and a guy named Sweet Potato Johnson (ph) that lived down south about fifteen miles I believe. South of Bristow between Bristow and Okemah. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And one day several of us boys-- four or five of us young guys, they took us in the back of a truck and took us down there and they' ; d already plowed up the peanuts and they were laying over and dried in the sun. And then they had poles that they had cut down trees and trimmed it off and stuck the poles upright in the ground, and we would then go by and pick up those peanuts that were laying there that were drying and we' ; d go and stick ' ; em-- stack ' ; em around that pole and where they would dry more and more until they were ready to take ' ; em into the peanut mill and have ' ; em harvested or-- GS: Okay. JH: --so forth. GS: And where was that peanut mill? JH: That' ; s Second-- GS: Between Second-- JH: --Second GS: --and Third. JH: No, well it was actually at the corner of Second and-- or no, Third and Main. GH: Fourth, third, yeah. GS: Yes. Yes. JH: Second-- GS: Third and Main. GH: Third and Main. JH: That' ; s the one that Bill Bethel bought later on. Right. GS: Okay. JH: But then the woman sat at it and they had the big belt where the peanuts come down through there and they would pick out the little rocks and things like that and all. And then after they were shelled and running down through there. So, yeah-- GS: Okay. JH: --It employed several women and for many years. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah. GS: I didn' ; t realize that women worked in the peanut factory. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s-- that' ; s pretty good to know. Okay, let me go back over here. Tell me about where the school was that you attended first. Where was that located. JH: Lovett (ph) was about five miles out east of Bristow on Highway 16 on the south side. The Fraidy hole-- the tornado thing is still there, but the building-- there' ; s a house there now. But it was there and I went. My first friend was an Indian guy named Jerry-- GH: Yeah. JH: Oh, come on. GH: Big boy. Jerry-- JH: Riley. GH: Riley. GS: Oh! I knew Jerry Riley. GH: Yeah. JH: He was my very first friend and he was a year behind me so whenever I went to the first grade, and then I got to the second grade and then he come to first grade, so I think there was two teachers. One through sixth or something, then seven through eighth in the other room. But when we' ; d go out to exercise and all I' ; d say, " ; Well ask ' ; em if I can go with ya." ; I was in second grade, so they did. So then come December of my second grade we was ready to move to town after I said my brother had went to the army. To the war and Norma Lee had went, my sister had gone to Tulsa, so we moved to town and they told Amy, " ; You better put Jimmy back in the first grade" ; So I' ; ve lost a year. GS: Aww. JH: But my birthday is in October the 4th and that year that I' ; d started, you had to be six on or before the day it started. So I was-- so I was two years behind school. That' ; s why Gerald was only seventeen and I was almost nineteen by the time I graduated. (Laughter) GH: They put me in before I got-- my birthday' ; s October the 11th and my sister brought me up and put me in Edison School before I was supposed to because I was the only boy left at the house. JH: You didn' ; t-- may I interject? He didn' ; t have a mother, she had passed. GH: Yeah, my mother passed. GS: Aww. GH: Yeah. JH: He was raised-- GS: So you were raised by your sister? GH: Sister and dad. JH: A whole bunch of ' ; em. GH: Yeah. (Laughter) GH: Had four sisters, yeah. GS: Oh. GH: Twins and younger and older. GS: Okay. GH: Older, Oldest sister pretty well looked after us. You know as far as-- GS: Very good. Yeah. JH: But anyway, go ahead. GH: Where was I? JH: (Laughter) GH: Oh I was telling you about Edison school. My first-- they took me and I was so young, I guess. I cried the whole day. (Laughter) GH: And Mrs. Liss (ph) which was the teacher-- GS: Yes. GH: --she took me under her arm and kinda took care of me for that day. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Aww. GH: And the next day I was fine, and everything went on-- GS: Well sure. You were probably only four or five. (Laughter) GH: Well I was five. GS: That' ; s pretty young. GH: Coming in off the farm, you know-- GS: Yeah. GH: --by yourself out there. GS: Sure. GH: Got all these people running around there. Man it was-- it was scary. GS: I bet it was for a little guy. GH: It was scary. I still remember it, that' ; s how scary it was. (Laughter) GS: So, when you went to grade school here in Bristow, was it one of Washington or Edison-- JH: Edison. I went to Edison-- GS: Edison. JH: --Mrs. Farbro (ph) was one of my first teachers and all and she was pretty tough on ya. She kept things straight and all-- GS: Alright. JH: --yeah. GH: I went to both of ' ; em, Washington and Edison. GS: Okay. Okay. GH: I remember the castle-- little castle store down there at the end of the Washington playground. GS: Uh-huh. GH: We' ; d go down there and get lunch. GS: Oh okay. JH: (Laughter) GS: Did they not have the cafeteria then? GH: I don' ; t know man-- JH: I think you brought lunch if-- GH: Well we brought lunch if you could, but-- GS: Yeah. GH: You could go down there and buy a soda pop from Mr. Castle. JH: (Laughter) GS: Okay, so after you finished grade-- do you have any memories of grade school? Were you active in any kind of-- JH: No-- GS: --activities? JH: --one memory I had, the Cakes (ph) were teachers there. And Mrs. Cake (ph) but then there is another teacher, Mrs. Bean (ph) that couldn' ; t hear very well and all. So one of the guys brought a-- in the sixth grade brought a water pistol and he was shooting it like that and hiding it and you know, it' ; s on the black board when it hit, [indecipherable] and she' ; d turn around and do like this and turn like this and try to figure out who was doing it. GS: Oh! JH: That' ; s one of the memories, other than that no. It' ; s just school and on the playground where you' ; d learn how to-- GH: Survive. JH: --defend yourself or whatever. GS: What kind of games did you play on the playground? JH: Well the boys played football against the-- GH: We played-- we played that " ; Red Rover, Red Rover-- GS: Yes! GH: " ; Let somebody come over." ; Yeah! GS: Yes! JH: Oh! (Chuckling) I forgot about that. (Laughter) GH: Oh I' ; ll tell ya, they try to break the-- break the deal. Yeah. GS: Yep (Chuckling) and it really hurt when you couldn' ; t break through. GH: Oh it hit you hard, yes. (Laughter) GS: Okay. Okay, I' ; m gonna skip now to church life. Did you go to church as a child? JH: My whole life. They always talked about-- I' ; m still a believer. Thank God, Gerald and I are both believers, but a lot of the-- well what day and what time did you believe-- well I' ; ve always believed in Jesus Christ because that' ; s what I was brought up in the Freewill Baptist Church. And-- right down-- well it' ; s not there anymore. But yeah, and we had friends coming in from Slick and down on Deep Fork with the Dobson' ; s (ph), and Dobson' ; s and on and on and on and so I' ; ve always been a Christian. So-- and I was raised at Freewill Baptist Church and I grew up and become a Southern Baptist and finally I got even grown up more than that and now I' ; m just a Christian going into an independent church and have a great church life in Edmond, Oklahoma. Faith Bible Church. GS: Very good. Very Good! (Laughter) GS: Get a plug in for Faith Bible Church there. (Laughter) When were you baptized? Can you tell me, were you baptized in a pond-- JH: When I was about in the-- GS: --a river? JH: No, I was in First Baptist Church of Lawton, Oklahoma when I was in the military there and I was kind of convicted. In fact, when I finally decided before that I was married and living in Tulsa after I got out of high school. And I was a smoker and I decided that I wanted to live for Christ and all, so on a Sunday morning we' ; re sitting there and reading the newspaper before we went to church and all and I said, " ; Did you notice anything, Pat?" ; And she said, " ; Well no. What?" ; I said, " ; Well I quit smoking!" ; Well she didn' ; t know it. (Laughter) JH: I thought that was gonna make me alright, but I-- I' ; ve grown a lot in the Lord since then-- GS: Right. JH: --and all. And had a great life. GS: Discovered you didn' ; t have to quit that smoking to become a Christian. JH: (Chuckling) No, but I did. GS: (Chuckling) Probably the best. JH: Yeah. GS: So it says here you were baptized at Kelly' ; s Pond (ph)? JH: No not me-- GS: No. Oh. JH: That' ; s where Freewill Baptist-- that' ; s where-- that' ; s [Indecipherable]-- right there' ; s the pond. Right out there. Do you know where Kelly' ; s Pond (ph) is? GS: I do not unless-- wait a minute. West of Bristow on Highway 66? JH: Do you know where the green-- meadow green-- what' ; s it called? GS: Meadow Hill JH: Meadow Hill is? GS: Mm-hmm. JH: Well just past there. You go up like that and there' ; s a pond right off over there. There' ; s another-- GS: Glenn Acres. Glenn Acres is what you' ; re thinking of. JH: Okay, so past the-- GS: My mother was baptized in that same pond. JH: You' ; re kidding me! What church did she go to? GS: I think it was Assembly of God at the time in Depew. JH: Really? GS: Uh-huh. And I did not learn that until recently. JH: (Chuckling) GS: Yeah, after she passed. GH: Right across the street from that, there was a pool hall-- not a pool hall, but a joint. GS: Oh. GH: On the south side of that. GS: Yes, now when I was growing up it was like a little café. GH: Yeah, same. GS: I think I ate there once. JH: Gerald Lee and I use to take our girlfriends back over to Depew and then comin' ; home we' ; d-- GH: Yeah. JH: --stop and get a hamburger. She' ; d find out later, " ; Why can' ; t you stop and get a hamburger taking us home?" ; (Laughter) GS: Yeah! I agree. I agree! Savin' ; a little bit money, weren' ; t you there? (Laughter) GS: Well alright, can you tell me anything about holiday events at the church or any special memories you have at the church? JH: Christmas time especially, you always had your little chocolate thing with this white sugar inside of it, and all. And we also had coconut that they give us. Coconut-- GS: Coconuts? JH: --and things that-- your little Christmas things at Christmas time that I don' ; t think they do that stuff anymore. But yeah, Christmas-- GS: Like a bag of apples-- JH: And also-- GS: --and oranges and-- GH: Ribbon candy. GS: Yes, ribbon candy. JH: And more funnier-- fun than that, was Pie Suppers. GS: Yes. JH: We had the Pie Supper at the Lovett (ph) School and one of the girls that was probably fourteen or so [Indecipherable] with my grandpa who was quite, you know. He was old. He was probably in his sixties-- bought her pie and she had to eat with him. And I remember how it hurt her feelings, she had to eat with this old man. GS: (Laughter) JH: That was at the Lovett (ph) Schoolhouse and all. And Merdel Henry (ph) and-- Merdel Henry and Lucille Lott (ph) was the first girls that I kind of liked out there and-- GS: Aww. JH: --there' ; s memories of those things. GS: Yes. What was medical care like when you were a child? Do you remember anything about the doctors or going to the doctors-- JH: Wash it off and get outside. (Laughter) GH: Old Doc King, I don' ; t know if you knew who Doc king was. He-- GS: I went to Doc King-- GH: Oh man I-- GS: A time or two. JH: Oh you must be old! Or mature. GS: I' ; m getting there! GH: Yeah, he was pretty tough. And then-- GS: He was-- GH: The dentist-- I can' ; t remember his name-- GS: Your-- Yourman ? GH: Yourman. GS: Dr. Yourman. GH: That guy, he pulled my teeth. Pulled my wisdom teeth. That' ; s the reason I' ; m so dumb. GS: (Laughter). GH: He pulled those wisdom teeth and he got up on my chest-- GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And-- and-- oh yeah. And pulled ' ; em. There wasn' ; t anything wrong with ' ; em. He just pulled ' ; em out. Pulled all of ' ; em out of there. JH: He needed the money. GH: Yeah, I guess. (Laughter) GH: Couldn' ; t have got much money at that time. You know, but-- yeah. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: Last time I seen ole Doc King, he was going down middle of Main Street and everybody was getting out of his way. GS: Oh. GH: I think he had a Cadillac or-- JH: No, it was a big ole Buick-- GH: Buick. Buick, yeah right. Yeah. JH: Great big-- GH: He' ; d drive right down the middle of the street. That' ; s the last time I saw him. GS: Did you ever get any of that black powder from Dr. King? GH: No. JH: No. GS: Oh, every time we went, he' ; d give us this black powder in a paper. I think it was a laxative, but I mean you did not go to the doctor-- GH: Oh yeah. GS: --without getting that black powder. (Laughter) GH: I used to have [indecipherable]. GS: Oh. GH: That' ; s what they gave me every Saturday. GS: Oh my goodness. Yucky. GH: [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: Alright. What do you remember about the city of Bristow growing up? JH: Oh. GS: Just any-- any kind of-- Let me back up a little bit. JH: Okay. GS: Let me, you' ; ve got written down here Deep Rock Camp? JH: Mm-hmm? GS: What can you tell me about Deep Rock Camp? JH: That was the Oil camp that' ; s just right across the road. You know, they-- GH: From the cemetery. JH: The Poor Farm Cemetery and across the road' ; s Deep Rock Camp, which there' ; s still some houses there. GS: Okay. JH: And you' ; re supposed to be able to get from there down to the hundred and-- whatever it' ; s called-- 41st street now, which the Jones' ; s own all of that. GS: Yes. JH: I drove down through there the other day and they own forever and ever and ever and ever down through there. She lives near where the-- your Poor Farm was. And she said there' ; s actually a few rocks or monument things out there today and all. GS: Okay. JH: Anyway, Deep Rock Camp' ; s just a place where that the people lived and they had-- you know, you had all the oil wells-- GH: Well oil-- JH: and [Indecipherable] GH: Yeah, the oil camp. GS: So the men that worked for the company lived in that camp? GH: Yes. JH: Yes, well and-- yeah. GS: And their families. JH: Right. Yes. GS: Yeah. GH: Yeah. They still out there. Some of the kids still live there. GS: Okay. JH: Yeah there' ; s still houses down there. GH: Yeah. GS: Yeah. Okay, and you' ; ve got written down that you went swimming at Catfish Creek? JH: And we didn' ; t always have a bathing suit. GS: Skinny dipping, did ya? JH: And we did that with Lester and Earl Hill and I and I don' ; t remember who else and all, but yeah. When you' ; re out and it' ; s hot and there' ; s a pool-- a little pool of water there, you take advantage of it. And people going from California or New York or Chicago back that other way, we didn' ; t care. Cause you know, they could see you but they can' ; t do anything about it. So-- GS: Well and they couldn' ; t see under the water either. (Laughter) JH: Well, [Indecipherable] we had to come out some time. GS: Uh-Oh (Laughter) JH: Along that line, another memory speaking of California, they always had to stop if you were in the crosswalk or you-- it wasn' ; t crosswalk. If you wanted to cross the street, they had to stop in California and let the pedestrians go by. GS: Yes. JH: So, us young boys then twelve or thirteen was standing on the edge and we' ; d see a California tag and we' ; d step out like that so they' ; d have to stop and we would walk across it and we' ; d do the same thing coming back the other way. Boys were ornery then. (Laughter) GS: (Chuckling) Yeah! I think some of them were. Alright now, this Pat Dillard? JH: That was a colored man that-- that thing is the other day I was talking about-- I don' ; t know how you' ; re offended with the word " ; nigger" ; today, but that was not a negative term growing up, that was an identity. Because I had a-- I worked with a negro man in the oil business and an Indian that I worked with also asked him, " ; Well are you black or what?" ; He said, " ; Black' ; s a color." ; Black is not-- you know-- GS: A race. It' ; s not a race. JH: Right, so there' ; s nothing wrong with me with Negro, and a lot of it' ; s on your birth certificates. But now, Nigger was just a common term back then and we had an old-- Pat Dillard (ph) was as you call them today, a black man. My older brother' ; s opossum hunted with him at night and all. GS: Uh-huh. JH: In fact, I used the word Nigger and my older brother said, " ; Oh Pat, I' ; m sorry." ; He said, " ; That' ; s alright, he' ; s just a little boy." ; or whatever. So you know, it' ; s not-- to me it was never a derogatory term it was an identification term of who this person was. Because we had another guy that was retarded called Nigger Jim, and he wore pitiful old sewn together clothes and-- GS: Aww. GH: He' ; d be at Main Street all the time, yeah. JH: And even his shoes and things were sometimes sewn together with this old rubber boots or whatever he could find. The Gold Eagle Café was there at Sixth and Main and they always threw some foods and things away, and he would dig through the barrels for food-- GS: Aww. JH: --and things and he just lived out what? Two or three miles out east of town and he just lived with one group and wanted another and all you know. GS: Right. Right. JH: Yeah, so-- GS: It' ; s a shame. JH: Yeah. GS: Yeah, I think the word became offensive-- JH: She' ; s [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GS: --I can' ; t. I can' ; t. JH: That' ; s okay. GS: But you know my parents, they said it. You know, but no. I can' ; t say it. I' ; m sorry. JH: No you' ; re not. That' ; s fine. GS: Okay. JH: Just in case you don' ; t make me go to hell ' ; cause I say it. GS: No. No, because you' ; re not using it as a derogatory term. JH: No, no, no, no, no, no. GS: You' ; re not, and it was not originally used that way. Okay, you' ; ve got written down here about business Thorpe Grocery. Did you work for Thorpe Grocery? JH: I delivered groceries for them and had many memories of those with the colored people also, because a lot of them were on welfare. GS: Yes. JH: And so on-- at the end of the month they always got their money and they' ; d come to town and some of ' ; em didn' ; t have wagons and all. A lot of ' ; em rode their wagons in around behind the alley behind Gold Eagle Café and Thorpe' ; s Grocery and Cash' ; s Junk Store and whatever GH: [Indecipherable] JH: Anyway, I would take ' ; em home because they had a panel truck, O.D. had a panel truck and I' ; d deliver ' ; em home down south of Bristow and then there' ; s a couple of colored women one time that we had to squash together in the front seat, but I took them home out by where our high school is now. They lived there. GS: Yes. JH: And so I' ; ve got memories of that, going in their house. And their-- their-- everything about them smells different just a different odor. What they cook and collard greens or whatever and all, but anyway. GS: Right. JH: I delivered groceries for that and so and just learned how people-- a little bit then how people are you know. GS: Right. JH: Nothing like what they are today. GS: No. JH: But anyway, yeah I have some memories of that. And watching O.D. butcher the things and make hamburger meat and watch all that-- GS: Oh. JH: --and how that was done, and things. And so, yeah. O.D. and Oneyta-- or Oneyta were good people and their oldest daughter just passed recently and I left a thing in here because I don' ; t know where you-- GS: I saw that in there and I didn' ; t know what that was about. JH: Well I don' ; t know whether you have the newspaper in Bristow anymore or not? GS: Yes, we do. JH: Well I tried to get that thing to Sherian through the electronics, and I never could, but I left that here. I think people need to know that, that their oldest daughter, that was her. GS: Well we can put that in there. JH: Yeah. GS: We can put that in there. JH: I' ; d like that. Well thank you. GS: Yeah, we' ; ll put it on our Facebook page. JH: Okay, yeah. GS: Okay-- JH: Now your Facebook page is which one, there' ; s forty thousand of ' ; em. GS: Okay. Bristow Historical Society. It' ; s not History of Bristow. That is not us. JH: Right. GS: It' ; s-- JH: Bristow-- GS: No. JH: No, not that. Not Bristow-- GS: Not any of those. The Bristow His-- well no, that' ; s different. JH: Which-- which-- GS: Bristow Historical Society. JH: T-O-W Historical. GS: Now you' ; ve got written down here-- JH: Now are you-- how do I get to be a member of that? GS: You just-- JH: I sent a check down here for something another and-- GS: That makes you a member of us. Of Bristow Historic Society-- JH: But how do I get on the-- on the internet? GS: On Facebook, it' ; s on Facebook. JH: It' ; s on Facebook-- GS: Uh-huh. JH: --but don' ; t you have to join? GS: You know-- JH: Let' ; s talk about that later. GS: I don' ; t think that you do. I don' ; t think that you do, but we can talk about that later. JH: Yeah, let' ; s talk about that later. GS: Okay, tell me about the Cash Junk Store. JH: Cash Junk Store was everything that somebody didn' ; t want. Pieces of lamps, farming equipment, hats, coats, old stuff. It was junk. GS: Uh-huh. JH: And he would-- you' ; d take-- you needed something, an old iron or whatever or an antique type thing and take it in and he' ; d give you money and he either-- you could come back and pay him more money and get it back-- (Laughter) JH: --or, you could leave it there and he had the money and you could go in and buy stuff. GS: So it was just an old day-- GH: Pawn Shop. GS: --resale-- Pawn Shop or resale, yeah. JH: Kind of, yeah. GS: Yeah. Now, I have heard the name Mcsude (ph). I know he was a Lebanese immigrant here. JH: Yes. GS: And you' ; ve got written down here Dale Donuts. What can you tell me about Mcsude (ph) and Dale Donuts? JH: Okay, if you remember who had the bakery when you were here earlier on? GS: I don' ; t remember. JH: Jim-- GH: Umm. Uh-- JH: My brother in law. GH: Yeah. JH: Anyway he had the-- they had the Donut Shop right next to Silvers store. Jim Cox (ph). GS: Okay. Yes! Cox Bakery. JH: That' ; s it! GS: I remember Cox Bakery. JH: His-- his wife and my sister--my wife was sisters. GS: Okay! JH: Anyway, Old Man Mcsude (ph) would go up there and buy day old donuts and take them down to this little thing he called grocery store. It was dark in there and he had stuff that was older than whatever. I don' ; t know who bought it there or what else went on because a lot of people, several people in Bristow probably loaned money just like Mrs. Bishop did that had her place up by the mill there and you loaned the money out and they paid back. But anyway, I think-- I still don' ; t know what all they did. He had an old dark grocery store in there and he' ; d just sit around and had a son named Larry. I think he was a pretty sharp guy or whatever, but-- GS: Wasn' ; t a really going establishment. JH: (Chuckling) Well, it was a grocery store-- GH: It was there (chuckling) JH: --but didn' ; t have much business-- GS: Yeah. JH: A lot of traffic. GS: Yeah. JH: Because you had the Golden-- Golden Eagle, then you had a Bishop, which is not any of these Bishops now, a grocery store, and then you had Thorpe' ; s Grocery store. GS: Okay. JH: Then you had the Café I think was the-- GH: Blue-- JH: --Titus' ; s café. [Indecipherable] Café, then anyway. Let' ; s go ahead with whatever. GS: Okay, well you' ; ve got now, Gold Eagle Café I think that was the one that was run by Carolyn now Webb and I can' ; t place her maiden name, but her parents I think-- JH: Could' ; ve been-- GS: --ran that. JH: --I don' ; t know, that' ; s a long-- GS: You' ; ve got hamburgers, fifteen cents? JH: Yep! GS: Did you eat there often? JH: Well you didn' ; t eat there, but you bought it and ate it on walking down the street or whatever. (Laughter) GS: Okay. JH: Yes. No. Yeah, they had-- they had stools and booths and all. But no, if you wanna talk about eating, you can go back up to-- The Lebanese pretty well was very influential in settling Bristow and Depew-- GS: Yes, they were. JH: --and many other places. But another Lebanese that I' ; ve been thinking about a long time now and I can' ; t think of his name. Had the best chili with-- GH: I' ; ve been tryna think of his-- GS: Korkames? Korkames? JH: No. Well-- GS: Not Mr. Korkames? GH: This-- this guy, you could buy. You got a bowl of chili for I think fifteen cents. GS: Okay. GH: Then went next door to the bakery shop and get a donut for ten cents and then you' ; d be home [Indecipherable] GS: Alright! GH: But he had the-- he that chili. I was tryna think of his name the other day and I-- JH: I' ; ll think of it in a few minutes because I thought of it the other day. He lived-- GH: I never thought of it. JH: He lived across the street from Junior High School. GH: Okay. JH: Anyway, lets don' ; t waste all day long on it. GS: Alrighty, did we did the twenties was prohibition. Later on after that, people would sell liquor that they made. Do you have any knowledge of bootlegging in this country? GH: White Lightening. GS: White Lightening huh? JH: I remember buying it. Did you buy it? GH: Oh yeah! Yeah. There' ; s a guy about three miles south on 48 and you could go down there for a dollar and buy a pint-- a pint of that White Lightening. GS: Oh. JH: How do you know you could do that? GH: ' ; Cause I went down there and bought it! (Laughter) GH: And-- and the reason I-- after that I never went again. There' ; s some others several boys together and my dad worked for the county at the night watchman down at the county barn JH: Oh yeah. GH: And we didn' ; t have any money, so I went in there to see if I could get a dollar from him and he gave me a dollar and we went down there and bought that liquor and from that time on I said, " ; I' ; m not buying anymore." ; I was so ashamed-- JH: Oh yeah. GH: --spend that dollar for the liquor and he worked so hard for it. (Laughter) GS: Do you remember the ice plant here in Bristow? JH: Oh that' ; s this boys-- GH: I worked at the ice plant. GS: Oh you worked there, Gerald? GH: Oh yeah. I pulled ice. Mr. Teagarden (ph) was the man who was-- back up. Hustlee (ph) was his name that run it, but at night I would pull ice. What that means is, they' ; d have three hundred pounds of ice in a vat that was-- it was down in this ammonia and all this other stuff that froze the water. JH: Ice water. GH: So you' ; d pull that up out of there, take it down at the cool storage, cut it up into fifties, hundreds, twenty-five pounds and then it stayed in there. And then you sold it on the dock. GS: Okay. GH: And then the come by-- people going to work, they bring their ice cans, we put that ice in that twelve and a half pounds of ice for twenty cents. GS: Oh my goodness. GH: And put that ice in those buckets. I mean in those ice cans. GS: Uh-huh. GH: Yeah. JH: But didn' ; t you deliver it to houses also? GH: Oh yes! I still got money-- well it used to be color, color town. People still owe me money down there. Perhaps you already know this, but they put a sign-- they had a little sign that had twenty-five, hundred pound, fifty pound, seventy-five pound and if they wanted that, they' ; d-- what they wanted they' ; d put it in the window. GS: Oh! GH: So when you drove by through the to [Indecipherable] see what sign and you take it, fifty pound, put it on your back, take it down there, put it in the ice box. GS: Oh my goodness GH: And they' ; d leave the money on top of the ice box. Well sometimes the money wouldn' ; t be there. GS: Oh! GH: But rather than carry the ice back, put it back in-- GS: You leave the ice GH: You just left it and then sometimes they' ; d pay you the next time, right? JH: Yeah (Laughter) GS: Right. Sometimes they didn' ; t, huh? GH: Sometimes didn' ; t. But then my other story about that is that [Indecipherable] that I was telling you just before-- GS: Yes! GH: That new way [Indecipherable] three thousand pounds of ice GS: Wow GH: With the cooler vats, that they' ; s making that [Indecipherable] in. GS: Oh wow! GH: And you had to carry this hundred pounds on your back, had a little ol' ; step rine (ph) you just put up, you had to turn around and drop it off into this vat. GS: Wow! GH: And that was a pretty good-- pretty good task. GS: I just imagine GH: Yeah we delivered out in the country, deliver ice in the country. Pull the ice, worked at the dock, and I did all that for the ice company. GS: You must' ; ve been a strong young man. GH: Ah, well, I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: Would be the question, or needy, I don' ; t know which JH: Needy (Laughter) GS: Alright well let' ; s jump to your high school years. JH: Okay GS: Were you active in any extracurricular activities? JH: I went out for football, and also wresting GS: Okay JH: And a little funny story before that though, in the eighth grade Earl Hill (ph) and I were going out to basketball and we really probably weren' ; t good enough but we got tired of that cause' ; he wouldn' ; t ever let us play GS: Oh JH: So he and I both quit and went out for wresting, and we both got to wrestle the first thing we beat out whatever so, but for football I went out the whole time for the comradery of it cause' ; I only got to play one play GS: Aww JH: And they finally sent me in and they- we punted the ball and then I run down there and I smeared that guy good and they give a penalty and the coach called me back over to sit down and I said " ; Well what' ; s wrong" ; and well he signaled safe call GS: Oh (Laughter) JH: So, I did. I went ahead and stayed on with football but just cause' ; uh, to be with the other people and all. GS: Right JH: But wrestling I was a little bit better than an average wrestler I guess. But it was a great, great sport to-- to teach ya not dirty how to do things dirty, but how to protect yourself and [Indecipherable], self-discipline GH: What was that coaches name, you remember? JH: Curt Thompson (ph) GH: Curt Thompson (ph), boy yeah he was a nice guy GS: Oh my goodness, he was GH: Yeah, like he said he was more of a teacher than he was a coach GS: He must' ; ve been pretty young when we taught you JH: Mm, yeah he was probably- GH: He was probably in WWII JH: Had he? GH: Yeah! Well he was Jack and he, ya know, him and his two younger sisters were, we were family friends with them JH: Yeah GH: Yeah, no he' ; d would' ; ve been to WWII I think and come back GS: In the late sixties he was my seventh grade, I believe JH: Science GS: Science teacher JH: Yeah GS: Seventh or eighth grade GH: Yeah he taught science, yeah JH: So he knew her GS: Yeah, I knew- I love him! I just thought he was a great teacher JH: Aw yeah GS: I think it was seventh grade JH: Yeah GS: Yeah, okay any other high school shenanigans? JH: Oh I can' ; t tell about them (Laughter) JH: Were you with us when we borrowed the watermelons that night? GH: Oh yeah, yeah, we went south of town there JH: We were needing-- gonna have a senior trip so we needed some money for this senior trip so Jolie Craig (ph), who was a little bit ornery and all he borrowed, wonder if I can' ; t stand to think of the cowboy' ; s name. Anyway we borrowed his pickup truck and went down south, five or six miles south where one of the guys knew where some watermelon patches were GS: Uh-oh JH: And we got down in there and we got our watermelons and started loading them up, about that time the lights turned on (Laughter) JH: Car down there, he [Indecipherable] all of us but one jumped in the truck and took off, and one we made go through the woods and all we had to go back to Bristow, come back down later on and drive through the woods and find him ' ; cause he had walked four or five miles. GH: [Indecipherable] JH: I don' ; t remember which one that was, but anyway we didn' ; t get to sell our watermelons at the fair and make money GH: Another time we was-- Christmas time GS: Yes GH: we were going up this hill over there by-- coming out of [Indecipherable], you come up that hill. Well, we were going and these guys had these water balloons JH: Uh-oh GH: And they threw these balloons into this car that was coming down that hill GS: Oh dear GH: Busted that lady' ; s windshield GS: Oh no GH: Ah yeah, and-- but that was not hardly the worst part of it, the worst part of it: we had to spend our money, Christmas money, to fix that GS: To fix the windshield GH: the windshield GS: Yeah, yeah. I' ; m guessing you guys were baptized after these events (Laughter) GH: No I was before that. I was baptized before that. I just didn' ; t know it but GS: Oh my goodness, okay. I didn' ; t see this backside here. Okay, I think I' ; ve got that one. You' ; ve got down here " ; Alcorns (ph), Bigponds (ph), and the Tigers (ph)" ; JH: Well Alcorns are good memories cause they' ; re older. There' ; s all girls but the two boys GH: [Indecipherable] JH: And they were a strong bunch of people, and they farmed twenty-four hours a day. He' ; s the only guy I ever knew that, except maybe the Indian guy, had a tractor, and it run twenty-four hours a day. And those- my older brother and sister were friends of those, and we knew those girls like I said they' ; d- night and day they kept that tractor running and all. They lived just, whatever. And there' ; s-- [Inaudible] JH: Open that and see if there' ; s not some more pictures of stuff in there maybe GS: I think we put them away JH: Anyways, but then the Alcorns (ph) and what was the other ones? GS: Bigponds (ph) and Tigers (ph) JH: Yeah, the Indians have been around here forever. Like I said, Jerry Riley (ph) was my first-- he was creek and his-- I don' ; t remember he had some half brothers and sisters and all, and he had that little younger sister too for, I don' ; t think she' ; s alive though anymore either, probably. But anyway yeah we were [Indecipherable] and we all went to school together and everything and all, but-- ' ; cause I remember them at our pie suppers and our Christmas parties and things like that. So we were all a big, big big community out there. GH: The Bigponds had it and still got a name down there in Bigpond corner. GS: Yes, yes GH: And had a store down there GS: Uh-huh. I' ; ve heard of Bigpond corner from my father GH: South of [Indecipherable], yeah GS: Yeah GH: They had a big JH: I' ; d almost forgotten about that GH: They had a big store down there JH: We' ; ll talk about that later then. Yeah okay, no I just thought about memories that I' ; ve of there. Oh, what store is that and now, across the street where you turn to go into the Alcorns on the other side of it is Joe Allen, this big Indian guy, that big two story house is still there and I remember when I was little so it had to be in the late forties. GH: No, the thirties JH: Anyway, the time before I was eight years old, I would carry a jug of water in a tote sack, a feed sack from the cow feed and all with newspapers wrapped around it all wet and all and I' ; d take it down to where Joe Allen' ; s place where my older brothers were harvesting hay, bailing hay, and take cool water to them. GS: Awww JH: So we walked barefooted in the hot sand GH: Oh yeah JH: And you walk kinda fast GH: [Indecipherable] cotton than the sand (Laughter) GS: Okay now right here GH: Tigers GS: You' ; ve got written " ; Indian Purse" ; JH: Oh GS: Can you tell me about that? JH: Well, I' ; ve got all that stuff somewhere is it not, look in through that folder GS: This is my folder, it' ; s not in here JH: Oh your folder GS: Yeah JH: Hmm JH: Uh-oh. Oh I didn' ; t give you all of your stuff, didn' ; t you, did you get that GS: I just glanced at it JH: Okay that- that' ; s not it then. Okay. Yeah see, this Mardel Henry (ph) and the other one I mentioned Lucy (ph) a lot gave me a little Indian purse GS: Oh I see! There is it! JH: There it is! GS: Oh I wish we could take a picture of it for the interview. Oh how neat! And I guess they handmade it? JH: I guess GH: Not sure JH: Who knows GS: Yeah I bet they did GH: I' ; m sure they did JH: And I don' ; t know which one of them did it and all but you know, in the first grade you' ; re just kinda flirting, you don' ; t know (Laughter) GS: It' ; s a cute little leather uh, like a coin purse JH: Coin purse but you couldn' ; t put very many coins in it GS: No it won' ; t hold much, it has a snap clasp GH: Didn' ; t have much GS: And-- and they' ; ve put beads through wires and loops coming around the edges. JH: Uh-huh GS: On one side, the beads have come off, but, well that' ; s got to be pretty old (Laughter) JH: My nametags from military, and I went through a memory of [Indecipherable] GH: Oh JH: You' ; ve got two name tags, you' ; ve got one and then GH: Dog tags JH: you' ; ve got the little chains on the other ones GH: Dog Tags JH: Dog Tags GH: Yeah JH: And the reason you got two is one of them you stuck the thing between your teeth, and the other they took off [Indecipherable] for identification GS: Oh JH: And left that there GS: I did not realize that [Indecipherable] GS: Okay what about the Gastons (ph) and the Paynes (ph) at slick? JH: The Gastons (ph) I grew up with them and I think there' ; s some of them still out there maybe the younger ones and the oil business and all, but this is just who was in out Freewill Baptist church that' ; s a lot of members of that and all GS: Sure JH: [Indecipherable] GS: So, did you have a youth group in your church growing up? (Laughter) GH: I don' ; t know JH: What was a youth group back then? GS: Well did you-- were there a lot of youth there that you did things together with? JH: Uh GS: Not really, huh?JH: Not really, didn' ; t have core organized things like that then GS: Okay JH: Ya know, we just had families that had things in common and whatever GS: Okay, well lets skips back to high school. What did you do-- What did you do for fun in High School? JH: Flirted GS: You flirted, like most high school kids (Laughter) JH: And knocked the books out of a guy' ; s hand, and then, it' ; s written down here too GS: You weren' ; t a bully, were you JH: He' ; s walkin' ; around like this- No I was not a bully, but I [Indecipherable] (Laughter) GH: I remember my high school year, last year in high school, I came to town every night. Every night, for the high school year ; even Sunday. GS: And what brought you to town? GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Oh! GH: And we drove main street GS: Yes GH: Called drive main street, you drive up there, turned around down there by fourth street, and back up. Every night of my senior year, I did that. JH: And Gerald had an old 39' ; ford GH: 39' ; ford JH: Coop. And one time we drove to Sapulpa in that coop GH: Yeah JH: And it took a gallon of gas there and back, but it took about three gallons of oil ' ; cause he' ; d burned a lot of oil GS: Oh goodness (Laughter) JH: But his brother Oscar was- GH: Meyer JH: Was a mechanic GH: Meyer JH: Not when GH: Meyer JH: Meyer (ph), Meyer (ph) and so he had drained the oil out of his little car since Gerald using his car cause his car burned a lot of oil GH: It was a ninety horse motor GS: Oh my goodness JH: Okay where were we? GS: Okay well we' ; re talking about school life GH: Oh GS: And, anything else about your high school, like maybe teachers that were influential, or a mess or favorite, or any memories of that? JH: We had some really good, really smart teachers. Our algebra teacher was great, and our science teacher Mr. [Indecipherable] I can' ; t remember GH: I thought I just looked at it yesterday JH: Yeah, okay but anyway yeah we had a lot of good teachers, shop teacher was great shop teacher. And that' ; s one that I used to, till I got older I' ; ve still did wood work, I love wood work and all that. Had good school members and-- GH: I had a Mrs. Foster (ph), although Mr. Bow (ph) was the [Indecipherable] JH: Oh yeah he was an agriculture GH: Yeah, yeah, Mrs. Foster was our, what do you call it? Group leader, what do you call it? GS: Okay GH: Sponsors GS: Sponsors GH: She went with us on a senior trip GS: Okay JH: Oh, Mrs. Foster GS: Now, is that the Arthur Fosters (ph)? JH: No GH: No, it' ; s the- what was their first name? Pauline? Pauline? GS: Pauline Foster (ph)? JH: No it wasn' ; t Pauline- Samson GH: Samson GS: Pauline Samson (ph) GH: No JH: He was a GH: No he was, he was, he was chemistry teacher. But I' ; m talking about Mrs. Foster. Caroline' ; s her name GS: Caroline Foster (ph) GH: Caroline Foster (ph) JH: Oh Caroline, [Indecipherable] GS: Uh-huh, yeah and Arthur (ph), yes GH: Yes GS: Did you, did you go to Tulsa or Oklahoma City much when you lived here? Did you ever take the train there? JH: I took the train from here in about the sixth grade up somewhere to Claremore and where I first learned about RC GS: And what is that? JH: You don' ; t know what RC is? RC Cola? GH: Oh yeah RC Cola JH: Would you give me one of those RCs? GH: Yeah JH: And a moon pie GS: Oh yes (Laughter) JH: Yes that was- that' ; s a long time ago, but yes that' ; s-- I rode the train from here up to Claremore or wherever it was, then came back and all. GS: Okay JH: So yeah. GS: Did you have your own car? JH: No, not until I was already, we were in High School I didn' ; t, or not GH: I don' ; t think you' ; d had a car JH: No, Donny or whoever my brothers [Indecipherable] GH: [Indecipherable] GS: Right JH: He bought one before he went to Korea, and I knew it was from momma ' ; cause we hadn' ; t had a car since GS: Oh JH: Way back after we moved to town in ' ; 42, we had it for a year or two then she sold it. We walked-- GS: Walked everywhere JH: She walked every morning to Thorpe' ; s grocery back home. We walked to the Freewill Baptist church back home, we walked wherever we went GS: Sure JH: And like somebody else GS: It' ; s a small town JH: Yeah, right. GH: I' ; ll tell ya a story about him ruining my car. GS: Uh-oh GH: And [Indecipherable] yeah. I didn' ; t know what, so it had fluid drive. [Indecipherable], we went out at the ball-- out at the football field. He went out there in the truck and started running, making loops JH: No that' ; s not- that' ; s not true GH: That' ; s true! And it stuck, and it- we couldn' ; t get it out of gear GS: Oh no! GH: After that, and I had to, and never did get it out of gear GS: Aww GH: And I took it and had it [Indecipherable] GS: Awww, did you make him pay for it? GH: No, no (Laughter) GH: I' ; ve never forgiven him though, just kidding GS: Okay now I think you both told me that you left Bristow when you graduated in ' ; 54. Jim, can you tell me about when you left? What took you out of Bristow? JH: Well, I went to [Indecipherable] college GS: Which was where? JH: In Stillwater, Oklahoma GS: Okay JH: And for one year, and I did pretty good the first semester. The second semester I didn' ; t [Indecipherable] and I lived in a little twenty-five-dollar room, and did our own cooking and everything and life wasn' ; t that easy but I did it, I made a dollar and a half a day sweeping out one of the office buildings, and all so I survived but then, the second semester I just didn' ; t do very good at all and I was still tore up with my brother killed in Korea GS: Sure JH: And I had to be in a, in a military type thing there whatever you called it GH: ROTC JH: ROTC, and I just didn' ; t do good at all, so I got a letter at the end of the year that said " ; Don' ; t come back Jimmy" ; GS: Oh no! (Laughter) JH: I said okay, so I went to work then in Tulsa, it' ; s [Indecipherable] and all, and then but was dating my wife to be over from Depew, and I took Gerald over and he found one too, and GH: Still married JH: And anyway, so I got married on June of 1956, and working for SH Crest Variety store in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a year and a half, and then, this-- I went out, I didn' ; t, I left that job and was looking or another job and they said " ; Well what' ; s your classification?" ; and I said " ; Well I don' ; t have one" ; and they said " ; Well you have to" ; so I had to went to Sapulpa and-- to the board there and one old man that' ; s a little bit old and irritated and all, and he said " ; Well why didn' ; t you register?" ; I said " ; Well I did but we don' ; t have any record of it" ; well the lady said " ; Well wait a minute, now wha--" ; she went through the thing here, here' ; s a little slip of yellow paper that says " ; Jimmy Hurts said I had registered" ; but it was never on the thing and this old guy got irritated and said " ; Well you' ; re going in and you' ; re going in" ; and I said " ; Well I don' ; t have a job right now, let' ; s go" ; (Laughter) JH: So I went in the army, and spent my two years in then come out and got married to Pat, and then, after I got out of-- while I was in the army then we got-- she got pregnant, but we, I was starting to work in Rossland, New Mexico for SunRay DX Oil Company GS: Okay JH: And was there and still had good Christian friends there from 1959 GS: Wonderful JH: I was there fifteen months, transferred with SunRay DX Oil Company now Tulsa, Oklahoma and went to Albuquerque and was there for thirteen months and then transferred to Midland, Texas and I lived there four and a half years and during that four and a half years, I changed jobs and went to work for Union Calif (ph). Ya know, putting the California, and retired with them in 1992, and so I' ; ve had been, like I said been blessed in that area too. Just had a good life and still got the Christian friends and Roswell (ph) and so forth some, anyway I won' ; t go into all that detail. GS: Well that' ; s good detail, I like detail. Are there any stories that we' ; ve forgotten or any subject that I haven' ; t brought up that you' ; d like to tell me about? I ask a lot of people this question, and I often get the same answer. As you see it, what are some of the biggest problems that face out nation and how do you think they could be solved? JH: First of all, every man that' ; s born since Adam and Eve are born with this sin nature, in my belief, we all have sinned and all. Some of us control it and some of us don' ; t, but there' ; s evil in good people, and I don' ; t care whether you' ; re a Christian or whatever, all mankind has a sin nature. Well, it' ; s sin is becoming rampant now and self-producing greed is just-- it' ; s whatever. And if you don' ; t agree with me, then we' ; re so insecure and spoiled rotten, the kids like the think where you can' ; t correct your child or anything anymore, that the government so, you know, it' ; s just really, it would be sad if I was not knowledgeable that the bible says, the bible says it' ; s gonna get better and better, oh no the bible don' ; t say that GS: No it doesn' ; t JH: It says it' ; s gonna get worse and worse and-- so I don' ; t like it and I' ; m disappointed in it, but I accept it because it' ; s what it spoke, it' ; s what' ; s gonna happen sin and nature is always gonna take over there. GS: Yeah, yeah JH: So that' ; s the way I see the world today. GS: Yeah, I agree with ya. JH: Yeah, you better (Laughter) GH: Then get mad JH: right before you deny GS: Well I could probably use that anyway, alright. We' ; re coming out of the pandemic. Is-- How has that affected you? JH: It didn' ; t affect me at all because I acknowledge the way it is, and that I' ; m gonna do what I' ; m gonna do and then my belief in all and it' ; s like the shots now, I have Christian friends that you get the shots, I said no and I' ; m not gonna get ' ; em. And I you wanna get one, go ahead, but don' ; t tell me what-- don' ; t try to control me and I don' ; t wanna try to control you GS: Right JH: And that' ; s the thing is, people with that same sin and nature if I can control you then it makes me feel better about myself, well why do I need to control you? GS: Right, yeah. Yeah. JH: Got anything to add to that? GH: Well yeah I think you need to get the shot (Laughter) GS: There we go GH: If you' ; re running around with me GS: Well I think we' ; ll end on that note with Jim JH: Oh okay GS: And I appreciate everything Jim, I loved your stories and thank you so much for coming back JH: Well thank you-- GS: And letting us do this interview JH: for offering this for memories, is what live for today GS: Yeah, yeah JH: Yeah GS: Okay, well we' ; re gonna end it right here, and then-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml OHP-2021-16_Jim_Hurt.xml
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Title
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Jim Hurt
Description
An account of the resource
In this 2021 interview, Jim Hurt shares his experience growing up in Bristow alongside his friend Gerald Henshaw. He discusses his upbringing, different jobs, and together Jim and Gerald share stories from their teenage years.
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OHP-2021-16
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2021-06-30
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audio
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Oral History
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Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Todd Herman
Mary Herman
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml
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5.4 April 9, 2021 OHP-2020-14 Todd and Mary Herman OHP-2020-14 0:00-2:09:56 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Todd Herman Mary Herman Debbie Blansett MP3 OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary 1:|81(6)|86(2)|113(3)|165(12)|211(7)|241(4)|270(2)|323(11)|363(8)|406(6)|424(9)|484(2)|521(3)|572(10)|599(15)|620(11)|640(7)|665(3)|693(2)|719(5)|763(14)|801(8)|836(2)|858(15)|893(11)|938(7)|974(4)|1000(17)|1055(9)|1106(3)|1121(2)|1157(9)|1170(11)|1204(4)|1217(9)|1229(1)|1267(9)|1297(6)|1335(8)|1379(5)|1413(11)|1455(4)|1486(7)|1503(14)|1543(10)|1579(5)|1597(9)|1628(7)|1691(2)|1749(8)|1776(8)|1808(9)|1854(7)|1879(13)|1910(3)|1935(3)|1961(14)|1986(5)|2012(11)|2025(14)|2043(2)|2076(13)|2097(8)|2110(5)|2146(12)|2177(2)|2187(13)|2202(15)|2234(2)|2275(16)|2296(2)|2308(2)|2337(12)|2369(11)|2404(13)|2440(5)|2478(2)|2509(7)|2555(2)|2596(5)|2637(8)|2669(13)|2713(11)|2754(5)|2770(8)|2788(12)|2829(14)|2867(17)|2899(13)|2941(7)|2961(9)|2992(16)|3002(9)|3020(8)|3038(5)|3065(4)|3105(5)|3123(15)|3152(2)|3182(2)|3200(1)|3222(3)|3256(12)|3277(16)|3292(13)|3314(3)|3356(13)|3375(8)|3394(1)|3444(4)|3482(6)|3496(5)|3524(4)|3535(9)|3555(8)|3556(12)|3632(9)|3672(1)|3691(2)|3760(7)|3795(6)|3844(14)|3881(8)|3898(11)|3927(5)|3952(6)|3996(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary2.mp3 Other audio 870 Family, Childhood, and Second First Grade DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I’m gonna have them say their names so you’ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I’m gonna lay this here and I’m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he’ll— DB: Okay, well let’s start with— MH: He’ll just— Atoka (Okla.) ; Benjamin Hill Herman ; Catholic ; Catholic Kindergarten ; Clinton ; Edison Elementary ; Fighter Pilot ; Germany ; Joe Fusco ; John F. Kennedy ; Judge ; Judge Herman ; Junior High Gym ; Justice of the Peace ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mainstreet ; Major Quince Brown ; Mildred Holcomb ; Mrs. Couch ; Mrs. Kelly ; Mrs. Styles ; Ms. Bath ; Ms. Dial ; Ms. Simms ; Parish Hall ; Sister Cowart Clinic ; Sister Melba ; The Clinic Building ; W.H Herman ; Washington School ; Word War Two ; World War II Childhood ; Early Life ; Elementary ; Family ; Family History ; School https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873384/william-henry-herman Judge Herman https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363700/quince-lucien-brown Major Quince Brown https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182268/mildred-w.-holcomb Mildred W. Holcomb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153638784/joseph-louis-fusco Joe Fusco 1486 Doc King, Mary Herman's Family and Bristow Main Street DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he’s gone a few minutes— MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I’m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I’m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I’m sure you’ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don’t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night— the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up— she said, “Okay, we just have to call Doc King.” And he came and he took a look at me and he said, “We need to flush out her system or she’s going to die.” And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine— DB: (Gasp) Cushing ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Grammar School ; Hughes ; Kemp's Drug ; Main Street ; Malaria ; Mary Hughes ; Pool Halls ; Prince's Theater ; Route 66 ; Searcy's Jewelry Store ; Theodore Abraham ; Tulsa ; Turpentine Bristow ; Childhood ; Family ; Hughes ; Main Street ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25974276/mary-elizabeth-hughes Mary Elizabeth Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363605/theodore-abraham Theodore Abraham 1828 Joe Ihle's Swimming Pool and Day Camp TH: And we had— we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma’am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was— it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers— MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: —I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something— DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was— Joe was— no he was the manager— DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word “Stupid, stupid, stupid!” Bristow Day Camp ; Burton Lincoln ; Day Camp ; French ; Joe Ihle ; Life Guard ; Margie Ihle ; Sapulpa ; Segregation ; Silver Plunge ; Softball ; Softball Field ; Spanish ; Swimming Pool Bristow Day Camp ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Joe Ihle ; Lifeguarding ; Summertime https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112573626/burton-john-lincoln Burton John Lincoln 1895 The Longest Losing Streak in Oklahoma DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I— MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really— MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were— they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that— TH: I didn’t play in every game. MH: —you’re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. Coach McCoy ; Football ; High School Football ; High School ; High School Football ; Sports 2189 Mood Hughes, Tom Slick and The Flu Pandemic MH: Well I— I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And— DB: They’re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they— he— his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after— He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870— I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don’t know and the Sanky— S-A-N-K-Y— was from some singer and so his official— he’d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Moody Sanky Hughes ; Oil Fields ; Pennsylvania ; Tom Slick Family ; Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Oil ; Oil Fields https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893843/moody-s.-hughes Moody S. Hughes 2409 Cal Woodworth, Cletus James, Basketball and Football TH: Oh well— DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a— the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games— DB: Oh wow! Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Cal Woodworth ; Cletus James ; College Football ; Football ; Norman ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma City Newspaper ; OU ; OU National Championship Team ; School Board ; State Championship ; State Class A Basketball Championship ; Sukovaty Feed Store ; University of Oklahoma Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Championship ; College Football ; Football ; High School ; OU ; Sports https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200860101/calvin-van_kirk-woodworth Cal Woodworth 2748 Rabbit Hunting, Four Day Buck Season and The Mills Ranch TH: Well yeah, that’s— that’s a different story. But anyway, that all— that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin’ and there weren’t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in— started in the 40’s but they really didn’t take off until the 50’s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it— after that they went to a four-day season, it’d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn’t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it’s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it’s three months. DB: But they didn’t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day— Baptist Church ; Beagle ; Buck Season ; Bus Blackburn ; Clayton Dial ; Clayton Dial Sr. ; Clyde Warner ; Court House ; Crossbows ; Drummond Hardware Store ; Drummond's ; Earl Ford ; Edna Mills ; Ernest Mills ; Ethan Mills ; Ford Hardware ; Hominy ; Hunting ; Indians ; Lake Thoroughbred ; Library Board Inc. ; Long Bows ; Lucy Mae Mills ; Mills Ranch ; Mineral Rights ; Missouri ; Mose LeForce ; Oil Wells ; Osage County ; Ranching ; Spavinaw Refuge ; Wanda Newton Bucks ; Hunting ; Oil ; Rabbits ; Ranching ; The Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410808/bus-blackburn Bus Blackburn https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873454/jesse-clyde-leforce Jesse Clyde LeForce https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141221581/clyde-warner Clyde Warner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26846902/earl-walter-ford Earl Walter Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Wanda Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330445/ernest-h.-mills Earnest Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182021/lucy-mae-dial Lucy Mae Mills Dial https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182009/clayton-elmo-dial Clayton Elmo Dial 2901 A Joe Ihle Story TH: So anyway, that’s the long story short that— that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let’s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn’t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let’s go forward to 1957 or ’58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they’re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn’t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn’t know what Bus did. They didn’t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. Beaver (Okla.) ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Bus Blackburn ; Football ; Football Coach ; Gun Boat ; Iwo Jima ; Joe Ihle ; Marine Corp. ; Navy ; World War II Football ; Navy ; World War II 3117 Mose LeForce, Drivers Ed, and Duck Hunting MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about— TH: (Chuckling) MH: —what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I’m sure? DB: It is Clyde’s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary’s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ‘coon huntin’? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he’s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That’s right. He was a— MH: Yes, he was a coach. Clyde LeForce ; Drivers Ed ; Ed Elias ; Football ; Hunting ; Jimmy Elias ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mose LeForce ; Rosemary LeForce ; School Drivers Ed ; Duck Hunting ; Football ; Mose LeForce ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/176139209/james-saab-elias James " ; Jamil" ; Elias https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/211791065/clyde-leforce Clyde LeForce 3264 The Gun Show and County Commissioner Scandal TH: Well I’ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I— we don’t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real— that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh— MH: Who was corrupt? Armory ; Bristow National Gun Show ; Caterpillar Dealer ; County Commissioner ; Federal Court ; Gun Show ; Jimmy Weaver ; Oklahoma City ; Quonset Huts ; Softball Field Bristow Gun Show ; County Commissioner ; Jimmy Weaver 3571 The Bill Mack Dairy Ranch and Championship Bird Dogs MH: Well I— he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather— DB: Yes. MH: —my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my— he named it after my dad . DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —that takes care of all the stray— do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly’s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. Beth Roberts ; Breeders Association ; Brenda Morris ; Championship Bird Dogs ; Dairy ; Doak ; Drilling Company ; Hughes ; Kellys ; Linda Trigalet ; Paul Morris ; Shaull Hughes ; The Bill Mack Dairy ; William Mack Hughes Bill Mack Dairy ; Championship Dogs ; Dog Breeding ; Drilling ; Hughes ; Ranch ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893840/william-mack-hughes William Mack Hughes 3863 Drilling Company and The Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or— MH: He decided that was during when things— the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don’t know. DB: What about your mom’s family? MH: My mom — my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby . Grandpa’s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather’s grandmother— grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never— she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you— a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not— they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn’t— DB: Yes. Arkansas ; Billie Hodge ; Cherokee ; Clell Long ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling Company ; Hodge ; Hodge Station ; Ida Fadely ; Oil Cans ; Reba Hodge Long ; RL Jones ; Route 66 ; Ruby Hodge ; Sand Creek ; School ; Texaco Station ; Tulsa ; Vic Hodge Bottling Plant ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling ; Drilling Company ; Hodge Station ; Hodges ; Hughes ; Longs ; Oil ; Route 66 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25970425/billie-darlene-hughes Billie Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528797/ruby-v-hodge Ruby Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528875/victor-w.-hodge Victor Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168803/charles-clell-long Charles Clell Long https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168837/reba-elizabeth-long Reba Hodge 4190 Condom Machine Quarters and Army MP Duties MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave— DB: (Chuckling) MH: —by me telling this story. But, grandpa— grandma would always go down— she would help him down there, you know. And she’d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men’s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so— TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That’s right. And so— I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don’t know. DB: But he— she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)— DB: That’s funny. Army ; Cunningham Chevrolet ; Hughes ; Japan ; MP ; Oklahoma State University ; OSU ; Polio ; TU ; Tulsa University ; Turnpike Amry ; College ; Huges ; Japan 4404 The Sugar Bowl MH: And I have— I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he— you know he really— you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he— daddy convinced Mose— DB: Clyde’s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to— it was New Orleans wasn’t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad— my grandfather evidently told Mose said, “You keep an eye on him don’t let him out of your sight.” ‘cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we’re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket— DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: —to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of— I can’t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad’s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde’s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can’t remember but— Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Hinting ; Mose LeForce ; New Orleans ; The Sugar Bowl ; TU Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Sugar Bowl ; Tulsa University 4785 The Carnegie Library Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ‘70’s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don’t you? DB: Where the administration building— MH: Yes. TH: That’s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries— DB: You don’t think she was still there like in ’81? TH: Oh, I can’t remember when— Bernice Oaks ; Bill Bursler ; Bill Shibley ; Carnegie Library ; City Clerk ; Civil War ; Dewey Decimal System ; Librarian ; Max Oaks ; Mrs. Armith ; Ms. Burnett Jackson ; Ms. Herman ; OSU ; Rita Oaks 5423 The Great Depression, Soup Kitchen, Roosevelt and the WPA TH: I have another story— DB: Okay. TH: —about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of— and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20’s or in the 30’s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. Ampitheater ; California ; Chicago ; Chief of Police ; Community Bank ; Dust Bowl ; Farmington, New Mexico ; Hoover ; Ice Plant ; Jim Tallent Sr. ; Judge Herman ; Levan Kelly ; R.L Jones ; Roger Collins ; Roosevelt ; Sam Blackburn ; Slick ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; World War II ; WPA President Roosevelt ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; The WPA N 35° 49.951 W 096° 24.181 17 Bristow Amphitheatre 5815 We'll Take that One and Tracy Kelly Won't Stop Crying MH: But you know, it’s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —the second. So they— and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad’s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home— I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, “Okay, she’s”— they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm— a ward, they called it. Dorcas Kelly ; Kansas City ; KU ; Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182368/dorcas-b.-kelly Dorcas B. Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96953333/oliver-tracy-kelly Oliver Tracy Kelly 5954 Everything is Always Connected to Something Else You know ‘cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it’s just— there’s so much that’s— all that history’s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it’s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story— MH: Mm-hmm. DB: —it’s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was— I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these— this couple— I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, “Well I grew up in Oklahoma” and the guy said, “Really, where?” and I said, “Oh, you’ve never heard of it.” He said, “Well try me.” And I said, “It’s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow.” And he said, “Bristow?” he said, “There’s—” he said, “I know something about Bristow.” He said, “There’s a real famous athlete from Bristow.” And I said, “Really?” Clyde LeForce ; Lawrence Kansas ; Theater Play 6376 $5 Fake ID, Northwestern Oklahoma State and Wishing to be a Play Boy DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want— DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven’t even scratched the surface ma’am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn’t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life— a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was— I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn’t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that’s another long story. DB: Where’d you go to school? Alva, Oklahoma ; Army ; Burton Lincoln ; Central State ; Duwayne Whited ; Edmond ; Football ; International Guard ; Judge Arthurs ; Levi McBride ; Marie Arthurs ; Northwest Oklahoma State ; Oklahoma City ; OU ; Schumacher Funeral Home ; Vietnam ; Winter Wheat https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171094/herbert-l.-arthurs Herbert L Arthurs https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171099/marie-arthurs Marie Stewart Arthurs 6507 Hunting Deer and Forgotten Tacos TH: Levi loves to hunt. I’ve corrupted him and I’ve corrupted his brother Michael . Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They’ve been taught how to shoot. They’ve all got nice guns and they’re my students. That’s what I call em’. They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I’m proud of em’. They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And— DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That’s my great nephews. Hunt ; Levi McBride ; Michael McBride ; Taxidermy 7063 Most Mischievous and Memories of Bristow TH: Anyway, that’s just part of my— that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn’t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That’s— how long you— how long have we been married? Let’s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. Chicago ; Coburgs ; Creek County Free Fair ; Judd Johns ; Kemp Drug ; Kirchner's ; Linda Trigalet ; Main Street ; Nursing Home ; Owasso ; San Antonio ; Teen Town ; Tulsa ; Virginia Johns ; Walamrt https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192278055/virginia-lee-johns Virginia Lee Johns 7223 Adlai Stevenson's Train Trip and Eleanor Roosevelts Amphitheater Dedication TH: —to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That’s how everybody traveled back then— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: —was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker— they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur’s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a— this was all Democratic country back then. Adlai Stevenson ; Democrat ; Eisenhower ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Frisco Railroad ; Illinois ; Judge Arthurs ; Kelly's ; Republican ; WPA 7635 Influential People in Bristow MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ‘30’s, ‘40’s, late ‘20’s, there was a lot— there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It’s how all of these beautiful churches got built and— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian— MH: The Methodist. TH: — the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are— TH: Boy I tell you what you should— what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. Alaska ; Betty Kelly ; Brick Kirchner ; Canada ; Dokes ; Eddie Bishop ; George Krumme ; Independence Kansas ; Levan Kelly ; Maree Kirchner ; McMillian ; Ms. Gurley ; Roger Collins ; Tom Miller ; Tracy Kelly ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204299/ralph-r_-kirchner Ralph Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182396/maree-b.-kirchner Maree Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22443036/thomas-j.-miller Thomas J. Miller https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25138458/edward-l-bishop Eddie Bishop In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Interviewer: Todd (TH) and Mary Herman (MH) Interviewee: Debbie Blansett (DB) Other Persons: Date of Interview: April 09, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family' ; s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they' ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I' ; m gonna have them say their names so you' ; ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I' ; m gonna lay this here and I' ; m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he' ; ll-- DB: Okay, well let' ; s start with-- MH: He' ; ll just-- DB: --your early life. Like-- TH: Alright. DB: --when were you born and all that stuff? TH: Alright, I was born in November of 1939 at the Sisler Clinic. It was actually the Sisler- Cowart Clinic. C-O-W-A-R-T. On West Eighth street in Bristow. My family came to Bristow on my dad' ; s side in about 1911 and my father was born here in 1912. DB: Oh. TH: My mother came to Bristow with her dad in 1923 from Atoka, Oklahoma. She was born in Atoka. And my grandfather-- her father had a jewelry store and my paternal grandfather wound up being-- he was a veterinarian and he wound up being the Chief of Police-- DB: Hmm. TH: And from there he was the Justice of the Peace. DB: Here in Bristow? TH: In Bristow. He was known as Judge Herman. MH: What was his name? TH: W.H. Herman his tombstone in the Bristow City Cemetery says Judge Herman. DB: Oh. TH: That' ; s how he was known. And you have to understand the Oklahoma Court system from statehood, they had Justice of the Peace everywhere and they handled the small insurrection-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The small criminal cases. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Which we' ; d classify now as a misdemeanor. DB: And the Justice of the Peace did that? TH: The JP did it. You-- if you got a ticket for killing too many quail-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and game warden wrote you a ticket, you took it to the JP. That' ; s what they were called-- the Justice of the Peace. DB: Hmm. See I always associate that with people-- marry people-- MH: Right. DB: I didn' ; t know that they were-- TH: Oh no, they did-- they did-- they had a lot of-- they kept the peace is what they did. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s what it was for. MH: What was his name Todd, even though he was a judge. TH: W.H. Herman and I-- MH: What did the W and the H stand for? TH: I have no idea. MH: (Laughter) TH: William? I think the middle name was Hill. And the reason I say that is my uncle B.H. Herman was Benjamin Hill Herman. DB: Maybe it was a mother' ; s maiden name or-- TH: Could be, I have no idea. DB: -- or some family name from somewhere. TH: Somebody' ; s done some research and I remember reading it, but I can' ; t remember exactly what it says. DB: How many brothers and sisters? TH: My mother was an only child. My dad had two brothers and a sister. MH: See Tommy Herman-- they' ; re cousins. DB: Oh uh-huh. TH: Yes. Listen, I don' ; t wanna dominate this thing-- MH: No. DB: No. MH: Go right ahead, keep on talking. TH: I could just talk and talk and talk. DB: Well just talk and talk and talk. TH: (Laughter) Okay. DB: So-- TH: Anyway, I was born there-- MH: Maybe she wants to hear about something specific. DB: No, I want to just-- MH: Okay. DB: hear your stories. You were born in the Sissler Clinic (ph). TH: Yes, and I was-- DB: Which is-- TH: -- raised in Bristow on the west side. I remember living in a little house on Elm Street between Seventh and Eighth Street. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The house is still there. There were three little frame homes and we lived-- I remember living in that house. DB: So you would' ; ve been grade school age? TH: I wasn' ; t grade school age. I wound up-- my mother put me in the Catholic Kindergarten. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Well tell her the story behind that. That' ; s a cute story. TH: My grandfather was-- Oklahoma was very anti-Catholic. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: An example, in 1960 John F. Kennedy lost Oklahoma by 100,000 votes and he was a Democrat. DB: Oh my. TH: He lost because he was a Catholic. DB: I-- TH: Yeah. DB: I didn' ; t know that. TH: It was-- it was a really anti-- anti-Catholic here. When I went to-- my grandfather did not want my mother to put me in the Catholic Kindergarten because they had nuns. DB: Hmm. For the teachers? TH: Yes, Sister Melba (ph) I can still remember the nuns name and it was discipline. If you got-- did something wrong she' ; d whack you with a ruler on the back of your hand. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember that and I cried ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school, and mother finally took me up there and enrolled me. MH: You said you would watch the kids. TH: I would watch ' ; em all go to school and I' ; d sit out there-- out on the front porch and cry ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school. I was five years old, whatever I was. And down the street the Brown' ; s lived down the street and there was a dog down there, his name was Major-- in a pen. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Major was the dog of Major Quince Brown, who was a fighter pilot in World War II. DB: Oh. TH: And got shot down in Germany and this was his dog and his squadron made-- chipped in and shipped the dog home to his parents. DB: Oh, how wonderful! TH: I remember going down there. DB: Huh. TH: And that' ; s some of my memories from-- DB: So the children-- so whenever you went to kindergarten at the Catholic School, there wasn' ; t a kindergarten like in the-- TH: No. DB: -- public school. TH: No, public school started-- DB: So if you wanted to go to school-- TH: --started in first grade. DB: --you had to go to the Catholic Kindergarten. TH: Yes. DB: Alright. TH: That' ; s the only kindergarten there was. MH: There was no-- DB: You must really wanted to go to school? TH: I wanted to be with all those kids. DB: (Laughter) MH: There was no preschool. The only thing we had-- of course I' ; m ten years younger than he is. But by the time I was that age-- three, four years old, there was a program-- Mrs. Couch (ph) who lived on the east side of town-- DB: Mm-hmm MH: -- and I think it was maybe Seventh-- Six or Seventh Street, East. She had Mrs. Couch' ; s (ph) play school, that' ; s what it was called. And so that' ; s where we-- a lot of us went when we were three, four, five years old. DB: Kinda like what Ms. Dial' ; s (ph)-- MH: Yes. DB: -- turned into-- MH: Yes. DB: -- later on. MH: Yes. So I have no idea when kindergarten actually started in Bristow. But there was no Kindergarten because we went from Mrs. Couch (ph) to first grade. DB: M-kay. MH: And I don' ; t think Mrs. Couch (ph)-- was Ms. Couch (ph) around when you were-- TH: No. MH: Okay. TH: No there' ; s no-- nobody had a school. This was-- this was it. The Catholic-- DB: Where was the Catholic school? TH: Right where the Parish Hall is now at the Catholic Church. The nun' ; s lived there. There was a little house that they lived in. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was Protestant kids going to school with the Catholic kids. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And they kid' ; s had school there. They went up through sixth grade ; didn' ; t they, Todd? TH: Yeah, they went all the way through the sixth grade at the Catholic School and then they went to public school. DB: But you just went there in kindergarten-- TH: Kindergarten-- DB: -- then went to public school. TH: Yes. And then when I went to public school at Edison. DB: And where was Edison then? TH: Right there on Main Street where there' ; s a school there now. What' ; s it called? DB: Well where Edison is now? MH: Yes. TH: Is that Edison? DB: But it was an older-- it wasn' ; t-- TH: Oh yeah. It was an old brick building. MH: It wasn' ; t that building. TH: It' ; s been torn down and rebuilt. DB: Okay. TH: Yeah that' ; s where I went to first grade. DB: So Edison' ; s always been right there in the same location pretty much? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yes. DB: M-kay. Anything else from those early years-- MH: Tell her about your first grade. How it--how you failed-- what happened to you in first grade? TH: Oh, I failed the first grade. (Laughter) TH: And they handed out the report cards at the end of school. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; m walking home. My parents had moved this time on West Ninth Street and I' ; m walking home from school and this kid that I don' ; t know who he was. He looked at it and he says " ; You failed, and your gonna have to take first grade over again." ; and I went home crying. I was just absolutely devastated and you know, they hadn' ; t told me this. Mother (inaudible) and here I have the report card that said I was gonna be held back. MH: Tell her why. TH: Well, I don' ; t know why I guess-- MH: You said it was ' ; cause you were sickly. TH: I was a sickly young-- MH: That you missed a lot of school. TH: Yeah, I missed a lot of school. DB: Oh. TH: I was a sickly child. So I got held back a year and it just devastated me. I remember coming home crying. I remember they were so--. I remember hitting that porch and just bawling and squalling and-- DB: Oh my. TH: I was so upset. Mother didn' ; t exactly handle it right. MH: (Laughter) no. DB: Just-- what did-- MH: Didn' ; t tell him. They didn' ; t tell him. DB: Oh. TH: Yeah. MH: You don' ; t do that to a child (Laughter). TH: So-- DB: So you did first grade twice. TH: I did the first grade twice. DB: And you weren' ; t as sick the second time? TH: No. My first year-- the ladies name, I can' ; t remember her name. The second first grade was Mrs. Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Mildred Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I remember all my teachers all through the Edison school years. DB: Well that' ; s something. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah, I can remember every one of them. DB: So Mrs. Holcomb was your second first grade teacher. MH: (Laughter) TH: Yes, and then-- DB: And second grade was? TH: Ms. Bath (ph). DB: Ms. Bath (ph). TH: She was a lady-- she and her husband were murdered out north of Bristow. DB: I remember that name. TH: Okay the second-- DB: Third grade? TH: Third grade was Ms. Simms (ph). DB: Ms. Simms (ph)? TH: And the fourth grade was Mrs. Kelly (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And who later moved to Clinton. And the fifth grade I can' ; t remember. I think it was Mrs. Styles (ph). DB: Mm-hmm TH: Or Mrs. Styles (ph) maybe could' ; ve been the sixth grade. Anyway, there' ; s one in there I can' ; t remember exactly-- MH: She taught math when I was in junior high. Styles (ph) did. TH: Okay then, when I went to junior high is when you didn' ; t have a homeroom. You passed around. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Seventh, eighth and ninth grade. DB: And where was the junior high? MH: Right there. DB: Like where the auditorium used to be? TH: Yes. That was the junior high-- that was a-- MH: Because the-- because the junior high building had an auditorium. DB: It was all right there. There was Edison and the Junior High and the High School. MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: All right there in that-- MH: Yes. DB: -- one little block area. TH: And then there was another brick building there, the Clinic building they called it. Its where the band-- MH: Band building. TH: -- band building was. MH: It' ; s where Joe Fusco was. TH: Yes. DB: Oh. MH: And then I don' ; t know about-- see we had LeForce Fieldhouse across the street. DB: Yes. MH: And that' ; s where we would have gym classes and that' ; s where we would do assemblies and stuff when I was in school. That' ; s what you probably did too-- DB: But there was a gym behind the junior high also. TH: Junior High Gym. MH: But we didn' ; t-- when we were in high school, we went to across the street. DB: Yes. MH: I remember the Junior High gym when I was in junior high but then I don' ; t know what happened to it (Chuckling) after that. TH: Tore it down. MH: That' ; s right. DB: No, it' ; s part of the building. TH: Hmm? MH: I mean we would go-- we would have like dances there. We had like the Junior High Dance at one point I think-- DB: In the gym? MH: Yeah. DB: We had junior high dances in Leforce Fieldhouse whenever I was-- MH: Yeah. DB: --teaching at the-- while it was not the high school then it was the junior high. TH: Excuse me. DB: You' ; re fine. MH: Right, so yeah. But its, yeah. It' ; s all-- it was all right there. It was easy. Of course Washington was on the other side. DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he' ; s gone a few minutes-- MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I' ; m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I' ; m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don' ; t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night-- the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up-- she said, " ; Okay, we just have to call Doc King." ; And he came and he took a look at me and he said, " ; We need to flush out her system or she' ; s going to die." ; And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine-- DB: (Gasp) MH: --and to take a spoon and dip it down into the turpentine just to kind of coat the spoon and then put it in the bottle because she wasn' ; t nursing me. For whatever reason, I was on a bottle. So he said put that down in the bottle with the milk and my mother evidently said, " ; I can' ; t do that, I' ; ll kill her." ; And he said " ; This will give her diarrhea" ; or whatever it was and he said, " ; If we don' ; t do it, she' ; s not gonna live." ; So, mother did that and sure enough, and so the story always makes me a little sad. It was great joy to my mother that he came to my wedding-- DB: (Gasp) Oh my goodness! MH: She always used to talk about that. DB: It gives me chills. (Chuckling) MH: Yeah and she-- because she credited him-- she always credited him with saving my life. DB: Oh, that' ; s amazing. MH: And I-- DB: After the schmancy doctors in Tulsa didn' ; t have anything. MH: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. DB: And he came to your home and visited-- MH: Oh for sure! Yeah and there' ; s great-- there' ; s great stories about Doc King. I don' ; t know how many people that are alive now actually remember-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know. DB: His name hasn' ; t come up often. MH: Isn' ; t that interesting? TH: My father talked about Doc king. My dad had Malaria when he was a young person and Doc King got him through it. DB: That' ; s amazing. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was always talking about Doc King. MH: But I was-- I was married in ' ; 72 in the old Methodist church-- the original one. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And there' ; s a picture or somewhere of him coming into the church. And he had to have people helping him. And then when the Historical Society Newsletter that came out just recently, there was an article about him in there and I read when he died and it wasn' ; t too long-- maybe a year or two after I had gotten married. And he was already not-- DB: He was holding on to come-- (Laughter) MH: Not-- I don' ; t think so. But he was like already ninety-something. You know? DB: That' ; s pretty amazing. MH: Yeah. Yeah, I mean-- you know, yeah, it' ; s a pretty cool story I think. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, Todd go ahead I' ; ll stop now. TH: (Chuckling) I don' ; t know-- I don' ; t know where we were. DB: Let' ; s see, so we had-- we were talking about the gyms-- TH: Alright. DB: --any other things from elementary time or-- TH: Oh! DB: --grammar school time-- TH: Well, a lot of the kids that I went to school with in grade school I wound up going all twelve years with them. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And graduated from high school with them and there' ; s three or four of ' ; em that I see on a regular basis today that are still alive. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And we are still-- were still, ya know not close friends but we' ; re-- we know each other. DB: And what class did you graduate in? TH: 1958. DB: 1958. TH: But my grandfather-- I have to tell this story. This is the greatest-- this is the greatest story that you' ; re ever gonna hear. DB: Okay, I can' ; t wait. TH: When I was five or six years old, I don' ; t know how old I was. My grandfather had the jewelry store on Main Street in Bristow. It was right across the street from the Prince' ; s theatre and where Kemp' ; s Drug Store is today. MH: Tell her the name of the store. TH: Searcy' ; s Jewelry Store. Well, I have a friend, I' ; m still his friend. He' ; s a retired attorney in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: His name is Stewart Arthurs (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: We found two stool plungers in the back of my grandfather' ; s jewelry store. We decide to have a sword fight, well we know we can' ; t have a sword fight in that store. MH: Did you tell her how old you were at the time? TH: I was five or six-- DB: Yeah, he-- TH: --years old, I can' ; t-- MH: Okay. TH: --remember how old I was, (Chuckling) maybe four, five, six. So we snuck those stool plungers out and we' ; re out there on the sidewalk on the street having a sword fight with stool plungers. DB: (Laughter) TH: Now at this time, Main Street in Bristow was Route 66. This was before the turnpike. The turnpike wasn' ; t completed until 1953. This would' ; ve been in 1945, ' ; 46 something like that. Bristow had a beat cop on Main Street named Theodore Abraham. DB: Uh-huh. TH: That walked up and down Main Street ' ; cause you had seven or eight beer joints on Main Street and you had to-- and a couple of pool halls. You had to have somebody maintaining peace down there. DB: And traffic. TH: Theodore did it. DB: Lots of traffic. TH: Lots of traffic. Lots of traffic. We' ; re out there having a sword fight. Well Theodore Abraham he' ; s ornery as can be anyway. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Would you believe, he stopped the traffic on main street and Stewart (ph) and I are out there having this sword fight and we were just little kids. DB: And he stopped the traffic. TH: He stopped traffic. He walked out there in the middle of the street and stopped traffic in both directions so we could have this sword fight. DB: Oh my! MH: (Laughter) TH: My mother comes out there and my grandfather and they see what' ; s going on. Oh my goodness, we got screamed and hollered at and I remember we got taken to the back room and my grandfather paddled both of us. DB: Oh my. (Laughter) TH: And mother called Stewarts (ph) mother and she said we' ; ll paddle him when gets home. (Laughter) TH: I told my friend, Stewart (ph)-- I talk to him about once a month-- he' ; s had a stroke and his health is not real good. So I keep checking on him over at Cushing. And I told him that there was gonna be an interview for this oral history thing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He said, " ; Be sure and tell ' ; em about the sword fight" ; (Laughter) DB: Well I' ; m glad you told that-- TH: Oh I-- DB: --that is pretty something. TH: Yes. That' ; s-- that was a good deal. DB: That is something. TH: But Bristow was a real good place to grow up. Because I had the run of the whole town. In junior high I had a bicycle, I could go anywhere. I' ; d go out in the country. I had a BB gun. I would shoot sparrows off the wires. I knew what I could do and couldn' ; t do. The policeman knew who I was. If I knew if I got out of line, I was in trouble. It' ; s like everybody looked after everybody. MH: That' ; s true. DB: Mm-hmm TH: It was-- it was that way. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: You didn' ; t-- you know, you said, yes sir and no sir. You were just happy, happy, happy. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Would that be true Mary D.? MH: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. I remember driving by this house on my bicycle going to the Bristow swimming pool. ' ; Cause I' ; d always liked to drive up Sixth Street because it was paved with concrete. It wasn' ; t driving on the bricks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I always looked at this house and golly I wonder who lives in that big house now. DB: (Chuckling) TH: I never saw anybody outside, so-- DB: Didn' ; t know you' ; d end up living in it one day? TH: I sure didn' ; t. Well I didn' ; t know her. DB: Mm-hmm. (Laughter) TH: So that was-- that was a good story right there. DB: That was a good story. TH: And we had-- we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was-- it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers-- MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: --I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something-- DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was-- Joe was-- no he was the manager-- DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word " ; Stupid, stupid, stupid!" ; (Laughter) DB: I can still hear that. TH: Oh, I can-- I can see-- DB: I think he still says that! TH: I can see Joe telling that and this is when we still had segregation. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and I remember the blacks coming out there wanting to go swimming and not being able to go. Getting turned back. DB: Hmm. TH: And I can remember Joe Ihle teaching swimming lessons to these women that came from Sapulpa. About ten or twelve of ' ; em and Joe was a good looking man and he' ; d always wait until those women got out there and then here would come ole Joe and he' ; s struttin' ; down through there. (Laughter) TH: The other lifeguard was the guy named Burton Lincoln that summer. We called him Abe Lincoln. He was a super smart man, had a double major in college-- DB: Hmm. TH: --foreign languages of English and no of Spanish and French. DB: Wow. TH: Anyway we' ; d sit over there and wondering. And old Abe said, " ; I wonder which one he' ; s gonna go home with this afternoon" ; . (Laughter) TH: And we' ; d say that about ole Joe and we never teased Joe. Joe was real sensitive. You couldn' ; t tease Joe very much. But he' ; d teach those ladies swimming and open that swimming pool up at two o' ; clock in the afternoon. And here' ; d come all these kids. MH: That' ; s late. You didn' ; t open until two? TH: Opened at two. DB: And so the ladies would come do their swimming lessons before-- TH: At one o' ; clock, yes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. Well it would take us until after they' ; d had that-- and they started this Day Camp thing-- DB: Yes. MH: Right. TH: And they' ; d all come to the swimming pool at eleven and we' ; d have to go out there in the morning and clean the pool. We had to-- the deep end of the pool didn' ; t have much circulation and the bottom would get dirty and we had an underwater breathing device. DB: Uh-huh. TH: With a ninety-pound weight and we' ; d vacuum the deep water. DB: So Day Camp-- you were the life guard-- TH: No, we didn' ; t have anything to do with the Day Camp. DB: Oh. TH: We were gone by eleven and here came the Day Camp to swim. And then after they' ; d get through we' ; d have to go clean up everything where they were swimming. DB: So you were about a junior or a senior in high school? TH: I was a-- I did it between my junior and senior year. And I did it after my senior year. I did it for two summers. DB: Two summers. TH: It was the best job in Bristow. They paid me forty dollars a week. A dollar an hour for labor in the morning and we got to split the proceeds from the rental of the swim fins and the goggles and that kind of stuff. And Joe got the towels and the swimsuits that they rented. DB: Hmm. MH: They rented swim suits? TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And towels? TH: Yeah. Oh we had tourists come through and not have a swimsuit and want to go swimming. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, Joe would do that and then his wife' ; s name was Margie (ph). She' ; d take that stuff home and wash it. DB: Wow. TH: Yeah, I was making-- I was making money. DB: You were. TH: That was the best job. You could do that or haul hay for two cents a bale. DB: And a lot hotter to haul hay than it is to lifeguard. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Oh, that was the best job in town. DB: And a lot harder work. TH: All these little ole girls would show up to come visit grandma for the summer and they' ; d take them to the swimming pool. DB: Come to the pool. TH: Yeah. DB: Ah, yes. I kinda have to tell on my husband. He still-- he still likes to drive by the swimming pool in the summer, but he said " ; It' ; s just not the same as it used to be." ; MH: Same. (Laughter) TH: Well that was-- DB: Just not the same. MH: No. TH: Well that was-- that was built by an Indian. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And he gave it to the city. That' ; s how the city wound up-- the city didn' ; t build that pool. This Indian man did-- DB: The original-- the first pool. TH: First pool and it held 800,000 gallons of water. DB: That' ; s-- TH: It was huge! It was a hundred-feet long-- two-hundred feet long and a hundred-feet wide. Had three diving boards. DB: Mm-mm-mm. TH: It was-- and it was a beautiful, beautiful pool. DB: Now I' ; ve heard it-- it had a name? MH: Silver Plunge. TH: Silver Plunge. DB: The Silver Plunge. Hmm. Well maybe one day we' ; ll have-- MH: Yeah, now that that passed-- DB: Something-- MH: Hopefully-- DB: --that our kids can have in the future. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: We' ; ll keep our fingers crossed. Okay, so we' ; ve made it through high school and lifeguarding. TH: (Chuckling) Yeah! DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I-- MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really-- MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were-- they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that-- TH: I didn' ; t play in every game. MH: --you' ; re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. TH: But he left and he went to-- went out west somewhere. Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And-- DB: They' ; re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they-- he-- his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after-- He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870-- I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don' ; t know and the Sanky-- S-A-N-K-Y-- was from some singer and so his official-- he' ; d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had a third grade education and he loved-- he worked in the oil fields in Pennsylvania. He was one of six or seven children and he went to work as a young boy working in the oil fields. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Back east, and then he came to Oklahoma as he was a teenager to work in the oil field. And that' ; s how it all started. DB: Now did his whole family move to Oklahoma or just he came-- MH: Eventually, some of them moved. But he--he was the first one. DB: And he was a young man then? MH: Teenager. DB: A teenager? MH: Mm-hmm. And came and started working in the oilfields and then just kind of worked his way up. He and Tom Slick (ph) you' ; ve heard the name Tom Slick (ph)? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: He and Tom Slick (ph) were partners at one time and I' ; ve been told everything they did was by a handshake. They never had anything written down. DB: Wow. MH: And that' ; s when-- after his partnership with Tom Slick (ph) is when he started his own company and it changed names. It was called various things and I will-- I will get-- I' ; ve got a lot of this written down and I can give you the exact names, but that' ; s how that all started. And he was in Drumright for a while and then that' ; s when he met my grandmother and I think-- I think there' ; s a family story there that was never quite told. Because of the, you know-- the difference in their ages and how they ended up. She worked for him. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And was a secretary, and then they ended up moving here and as a wedding present to her he built this house. DB: And how many years were there between them? MH: Twenty? Twenty or twenty-one years' ; difference in age. DB: Oh wow. MH: And he had been married before and had had a child and she had died as a young girl. Either of pneumonia or the flu. When was the flu pandemic? TH: 1919, 19-- MH: That might' ; ve been, you know it' ; s all kind of fuzzy because I never knew him. He died before I was born. DB: Hmm. MH: So. DB: But this house was a wedding gift that he had built for her? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Wow. MH: They, they-- DB: And all on a third grade education? MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: Mm-hmm. And he-- it was started in ' ; 23 and completed in ' ; 24 and so they had lived here for three years before they adopted my dad. He was born in ' ; 27. So, yeah. Okay Todd you go on. TH: Oh well-- DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a-- the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games-- DB: Oh wow! TH: -- this is off a team that hadn' ; t-- had this losing streak. That' ; s a true story about the losing streak. That was in the Oklahoma City Newspaper. DB: Hmm. MH: (Laughter) TH: Uhh-- MH: It must be true then if it was (Chuckling)-- TH: Twenty-six straight games. DB: Wow. TH: This would' ; ve been in the 50' ; s. Yeah-- MH: Well how many games did you win your senior year? TH: I think we won eleven and we got to the semi-finals and got beat and we thought we could win it all but we didn' ; t. We ran on to a team called Ada (Chuckling). DB: (Laughter) TH: Ada beat everybody. DB: Yeah. TH: Anyway-- DB: And they came back a few years later and were pretty tough too. TH: Oh yes. DB: (Laughter) TH: Then we had a basketball coach who was-- he looked like he was about-- he was a student, he looked so young. His name was Cletus James (ph), and these two coaches just died within the last year-- year and a half. DB: Oh really! TH: Yeah, they really had an influence on a lot of young men. And long story short they won the State Class A Foot-- Basketball Championship. So in time-- DB: So Bristow was-- TH: --Bristow High School men have ever won a state championship. DB: Was in-- TH: 1958. DB: 1958. MH: Your senior year. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And you were on the basketball team? TH: No, I didn' ; t play my senior year-- DB: Oh. TH: --because I wanted a job to make money and I worked in the Sukovaty feed store. DB: I' ; ve heard that name. TH: And delivered-- we delivered-- worked after school and on Saturdays delivering feed, because we had a lot of dairies back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And this-- this was before cattle cubes. I remember the first sack of cattle cubes I saw, but they had all this dairy feed and I remember it was all in hundred pound sacks. DB: (Chuckling) TH: (Chuckling) And you had to be a stud duck to pick up a hundred-pound sack on your shoulder and carry it. DB: All day long! TH: Well yeah. You' ; d take twenty of ' ; em on a back of a pick-up truck, that' ; s two-thousand pounds. And take them out to a dairy. But there were a lot of dairies in this area. So I didn' ; t-- I didn' ; t play. I' ; m sorry I didn' ; t. MH: Well you' ; ve also said, Todd you weren' ; t very good. TH: Well I-- Let me, let me say this I thought I was a lot better than I really was. (Laughter) TH: But we had some good athletes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Some good kids and you had to have to win all those-- all those-- I think they only lost two games my senior year. MH: And you played college football. TH: Well yeah, that' ; s-- that' ; s a different story. But anyway, that all-- that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin' ; and there weren' ; t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in-- started in the 40' ; s but they really didn' ; t take off until the 50' ; s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it-- after that they went to a four-day season, it' ; d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn' ; t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it' ; s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it' ; s three months. DB: But they didn' ; t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day-- DB: Whatever you had to kill ' ; em with. TH: One day you had to shoot ' ; em with a shotgun-- DB: Oh. TH: --and a rifle slug. DB: No bow or anything like-- TH: No, they didn' ; t have any bow season back then. I remember the first bow season was at Spavinaw Refuge. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that was about that time. You couldn' ; t even buy a bow and arrow anywhere hardly. If you wanted to buy one, you had to buy it out of a catalog. And they didn' ; t have these fancy bows like they-- DB: Like they do now. TH: --just long bows-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anyway, that was-- that was all the hunting and I always did that and then-- then my dad and three other guys had permission to hunt on the Mills Ranch and there was a big pond down there. The pond is still there and they had a duck blind on that pond. I remember going down there and going duck hunting, freezing to death and-- DB: Where' ; s the Mills-- TH: Uh-- DB: Is it-- TH: That was southeast of Bristow. DB: --south of town-- TH: Yeah. Ethan Mills came here before statehood-- MH: Explain to her who-- what the connection on down the line is to Ethan Mills, because I don' ; t know if she' ; s talked to anybody that would' ; ve explained that. DB: No. TH: Okay. Ethan Mills came here before statehood. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Missouri and he had a ranch. There' ; s a lot of grass land south and east of Bristow. As you go that way from Bristow there' ; s a lot of open ground. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It doesn' ; t have this cross timber-- this scrub oak on it. And he had that and they drilled wells on him and he was wealthy. And he would let my dad and three other men, Bus Blackburn, Mose LeForce and Clyde Warner hunt ducks down there on this big lake. To the north there was another big lake that he had built called Thoroughbred and he' ; d let Mr.-- Mr. Earl Ford and his friends hunt on it. MH: Earl Ford was Wanda Newton' ; s dad. DB: Oh okay. TH: At Ford Hardware. DB: Okay. TH: Okay. Anyway, I remember doing all that down there. Well Ethan Mills had two children and Ernest Mills who had the ranch over south of Edna (ph) and then Lucy Mae, who was an old maid. She wound up marrying Mr. Clayton Dial. DB: Oh! TH: And I believe if-- there' ; s a lot of money that' ; s been given away, when she passed away. DB: Yes. TH: I believe the Baptist Church got old. MH: And that' ; s what started the Library Board Inc. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was money from that and I think-- where else did she leave her money? TH: I think the Baptist Church got a bunch of it and I believe the elevator in the Baptist church was built for her. DB: And she was a Mills? TH: She was a Mills, but she married Clayton Dial Sr. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Who committed suicide. DB: And the Ethan Mills made his money from old oil wells-- TH: Ranching. Ranching-- DB: Oh, from ranching. TH: --he had white face cattle. MH: But they all-- so you just-- you just said that they drilled on his land. TH: Yeah there' ; s-- there' ; s still wells out there-- DB: So he got mineral rights, he got part of that. TH: Yes. Yes. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And raised-- TH: He borrowed from the Indians. See the Indians had no sense of ownership of surface acres. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they-- they' ; d get a deed to it and what they-- they' ; d take it and sell it. Until the Drummond' ; s (ph) got their land in Osage County. DB: Hmm. TH: Come borrow money from the Drummond Hardware Store in Hominy. Signed a quick claim deed. They didn' ; t come pay by pay day, they' ; d go file the deed at the court house and we own the surface. DB: There you go. TH: So anyway, that' ; s the long story short that-- that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let' ; s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn' ; t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let' ; s go forward to 1957 or ' ; 58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they' ; re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn' ; t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn' ; t know what Bus did. They didn' ; t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Those two guys get to talking. Joe Ihle is talking on a radio to the gun boat directing fire. Guess who he' ; s talking to? DB: (Chuckling) who? TH: He' ; s talking to Bus Blackburn. DB: That is crazy. MH: Isn' ; t that crazy? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: I' ; m sure you didn' ; t hear that story from Joe? DB: No. No. MH: (Chuckling) No. DB: He won' ; t talk about any of those days, so I' ; m glad that you shared that because they' ; d be lost anyway-- otherwise. TH: Well, I go to the bank to see Joe Ihle the last week of February every year. DB: Mm-hmm. Yep. You know he' ; s still-- he' ; s still going in there. Brent says he goes in about once a week. TH: I' ; ll, I' ; ll-- DB: Checks on his stuff. TH: I' ; ll tear up telling this story, but I go in and shake his hand to say thanks coach. MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about-- TH: (Chuckling) MH: --what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I' ; m sure? DB: It is Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary' ; s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ' ; coon huntin' ; ? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he' ; s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That' ; s right. He was a-- MH: Yes, he was a coach. DB: Okay. MH: Yes. DB: Okay. TH: He was the football coach here for years. MH: Yes. DB: Okay, then I' ; ve got it. I' ; ve got the right person. TH: Have you ever been to Jamil' ; s in Tulsa? DB: I have. TH: Have you seen the picture on the wall of the football game-- MH: She' ; s probably been to the new one not the old one, Todd. DB: No, I went to the old one for prom. (Laughter) TH: Alright. MH: Uh-huh. DB: And I haven' ; t been back! (Laughter) DB: I mean it was wonderful but-- MH: Yeah. (Chuckling) DB: --it was like 1977-- MH: Right. DB: --or ' ; 78-- TH: There was a picture on a football on the -- DB: On the wall. TH: --of the Bristow football team in 1932 or ' ; 31, ' ; 32. DB: And he' ; s on that picture. TH: My dad was in it. Jimmy Elias, which is Jamil-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: --was on it. Ed Elias (ph), which was Eddie' ; s Steakhouse was on it. All their pictures there. They all got their letter sweater on. DB: I wonder if they moved it-- TH: It' ; s still on that-- I think it' ; s still in the new one. DB: --to the new place. MH: I don' ; t know. DB: That' ; d be worth the trip just to see if it' ; s-- MH: Uh-huh TH: Go up there-- DB: still up there. TH: Go up there and ask for Bernard say, " ; Is your daddy' ; s picture and football team still on the wall?" ; Cause I think-- DB: I heard stories, I need to see this picture. MH: Yeah. TH: Tell him you talked to Todd Herman. Yeah. DB: M-Kay. TH: Okay. Anyway, Mose and we' ; d go ' ; coon huntin' ; and my mother, " ; Oh my, when you gonna be home?" ; " ; Well we' ; ll be home by eleven o' ; clock." ; Well hell we wouldn' ; t come home until almost time the sun come up. (Laughter) TH: We' ; d be up to here with ' ; em. MH: Well didn' ; t you say that he would take you before school too? TH: Oh yeah! That' ; s another story. MH: (Chuckling) That' ; s what I was talking-- TH: Oh yeah! DB: And you made it to school? TH: No! I didn' ; t go to school, I' ; d go home and instead of knocking on the door, mother had a little swing out on the front porch. I' ; d lay down there and go to sleep. Mother would finally come out there and she' ; d-- " ; You come in the house!" ; . Boy I gotta tell ya, I forgot about that. Mose LeForce taught Drivers Ed. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: First class in the morning, he' ; d get some high school kid-- I was in the tenth grade, taking Drivers Ed. He' ; d get some high school kid to run his class and we' ; d go duck hunting. (Laughter) TH: Mose LeForce and my dad-- and they' ; d let me miss Drivers Ed. You know, it was a miss. And we' ; d go duck huntin' ; . They wanted me to go around and pick up the dead ducks after they shot ' ; em that' ; s the reason they wanted me to go. (Laughter) TH: Come home and I had-- oh I had-- I could not tell anybody that I had been duck hunting that morning. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: The school didn' ; t take up back then until nine o' ; clock. So the first hour it would be almost ten o' ; clock by the time we' ; d get back and-- DB: So you skipped Drivers Ed? TH: I-- yeah it was-- the coach, Mose would take me. My dad had-- you know, my dad let me go. Oh this was-- it was-- you know ; they were-- they were happy I was going, but we had a good time. DB: Sounds like it. TH: Well I' ; ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I-- we don' ; t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real-- that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh-- MH: Who was corrupt? TH: Jimmy Weaver (ph) MH: Your dad wasn' ; t corrupt? TH: Well Jimmy Weaver (ph) was. MH: (Laughing) DB: But they got together-- TH: Are you-- are you familiar with the county commissioner scandal in Oklahoma in the 70' ; s? DB: No. TH: Every county there was a federal indictment issued out of federal court in Oklahoma City. And every county but two counties had a county commissioner indicted. DB: Oh, that' ; s not good. TH: Oh it was-- it was-- they were thieving. They were getting-- DB: Hmm. TH: --kickback from suppliers is what they were doing. DB: Oh. TH: And they got some woman to testify and line ' ; em up and the Caterpillar dealer in Oklahoma City was indicted and went-- people went-- people went to prison-- DB: Hmm. TH: --over this. Well my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) were buddies and they started this gun show. DB: Like the gun shows they have in Tulsa now? TH: Yes! This was-- this was the first one. It was called the Bristow National Gun Show and my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) put it on. DB: Huh. TH: And the county furnished all the tables, and they had it at the armory to start with and they outgrew the armory and they went to the old fairgrounds buildings. Out there by the softball field. You remember those Quonset huts? DB: Yes. Yes. TH: They' ; d fill those things up. They' ; d have people from all over the country-- DB: Huh. TH: --come in here for that gun show. It was huge. It was monstrous. They' ; d let the Bristow Professional the PBW-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: They cooked and served food out there. It was a big deal. DB: I didn' ; t even know that we had a gun show like that, ever. TH: Oh yes! Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather-- DB: Yes. MH: --my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my-- he named it after my dad. DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that takes care of all the stray-- do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly' ; s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay. The log home across the road from Paul and Brenda was originally the Hughes cabin that went with the dairy. And so all of that land, my grandfather owned. DB: Hmm. MH: And he had Jersey Cattle and he was nationally known as one of the top breeders of Jersey Cattle in the country. He was president at one time of the Breeders Association blah, blah, blah. And they-- and they produced milk and the milk was delivered to homes in Bristow. Todd remembers as a child-- DB: Hmm. MH: --getting milk delivered. And when my grandfather died in ' ; 48, my grandmother and my dad-- my dad was an only child. They-- they decided to sell The dairy and I have pamphlets that were printed with-- it was like a show dog. The cows were named and had numbers. You know when they were auctioning all the-- all of that off. So, I mean I wasn' ; t alive yet. DB: And so this-- this dairy was one of many? MH: Hmm-uh. It was just-- DB: But I mean-- MH: The Bill Mack Dairy. DB: But there were other dairies around Bristow then? Or that was the only dairy? TH: No. MH: I don' ; t know. I don' ; t know that. TH: There were other dairies. DB: There were other dairies? TH: Yes, there was-- DB: But this was a pretty good size dairy you said many head of Jersey-- MH: Yes. DB: --cows in there-- MH: In fact, he brought some cattle directly over from the Isle of Jersey. DB: Oh, wow. MH: And when he started this-- why there was that interest, I have no idea. And they built the log home to live in in the summer when it was so hot. DB: Hmm. MH: And my grandmother had a big garden there and I mean I' ; ve seen pictures and all of that of course. DB: And that would' ; ve really been in the country? MH: Yes, it was in the country. Yes. Mm-hmm. DB: During that time. MH: Mm-hmm. But when my dad was a child, he had-- they had horses and back here in the backyard there' ; s what we used to call the dog pen when I was growing up. And there' ; s a small outbuilding and it has a stable door on one side and they would keep his horse in town some. And I have a picture of my grandfather on a horse in the front horse in the front yard. It' ; s on the refrigerator DB: Oh, I saw it as I walked by. MH: Yes, uh-huh. That was here. DB: And then they would load the horse up and take-- MH: I guess, I don' ; t know. DB: Had a horse in town. MH: And my grandfather bred championship bird dogs. Aren' ; t they? Weren' ; t they bird dogs, Todd? TH: Mm-hmm. She' ; s got trophies upstairs. MH: I' ; ve got a lot of trophies for his dogs. I guess he was into everything and then he had this drilling company, oil company-- DB: That' ; s just amazing. MH: --that went through different changes, you know. He' ; d have one partner and then when he died, I believe it was still Shaull Hughes (ph) then it was Doak and Hughes you know Linda Trigalet and her family was involved and-- yeah. And my dad sold the company when I was a senior in high school, 1967. DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or-- MH: He decided that was during when things-- the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don' ; t know. DB: What about your mom' ; s family? MH: My mom-- my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby. Grandpa' ; s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather' ; s grandmother-- grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never-- she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you-- a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not-- they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn' ; t-- DB: Yes. MH: -- I didn' ; t, you know the school and stuff. So-- so I' ; m-- what did we figure, Todd? I' ; m 1/16th? TH: 16th. MH: No, no, no-- TH: Or thirty-second. MH: Thirty-second. TH: Yeah. MH: Cherokee. TH: You look at it-- if you look at what the document-- if you look at the thing that her sister wrote-- MH: Mm-hmm. TH: --and start figuring it back where she' ; s 1/32nd. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And she has no way to prove that and I told her, you need to go do some research-- MH: I do, I have-- I can prove it. We have a family history on the Hodge side so I do have it. I have pictures of his mother in Indian garb and all that. But anyway, my grandmother was a Smith and I-- they were always from Oklahoma and my grandfather and my-- one of my grandmothers, no-- my grandfather and one of his brother in-laws started the Dr. Pepper bottling plant, that I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard about-- DB: Uh-- MH: --that was in Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And the brother in-law was named-- his name was Clell Long. And his-- DB: So many names in your family. MH: --and his wife Reba was my grandpas sister. DB: Huh. MH: And they started the bottling plant. I have a lot-- I have lots of pictures of that and after several years-- I don' ; t know the story behind it but grandpa sold his portion to Clell and grandpa continued to work for him for a while and then he put in a gas station which was between here and the Pizza Hut. Right Todd? I mean on that-- between where the bank is and the Pizza Hut. DB: Ida Fadely (ph) had that when I came here in ' ; 80, was Fadely' ; s. It was, I don' ; t remember what kind of gas station it was but it was on the hill between Pizza Hut and the bank. So-- MH: It was right in there, Todd. Wasn' ; t it. It was a Texaco Station? TH: Well, where it was, was down the hill. 66 came out of Bristow and went straight north to the entrance to the RL Jones (ph) property, and made a sharp right turn and went down and there was a bridge over Sand Creek. DB: Oh. TH: Right there where the bridge was when you crossed Sand Creek, on the right was a little old gas station and that was the Hodge Station. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, I remember all the oil cans back there in the creek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Hodge station. TH: When I was a kid. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave-- DB: (Chuckling) MH: --by me telling this story. But, grandpa-- grandma would always go down-- she would help him down there, you know. And she' ; d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men' ; s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so-- TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That' ; s right. And so-- I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don' ; t know. DB: But he-- she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)-- DB: That' ; s funny. MH: Yeah, yeah. And of course she was kind of embarrassed about that. She wouldn' ; t tell people, so I' ; m telling that (Inaudible) DB: (Laughter) MH: But-- DB: So it' ; ll be down for history' ; s sake. MH: And then grandpa, he did that for a while and then he went to work for Cunningham Chevrolet. And then he worked for the turnpike at the you know, the gates, you know. And that' ; s where he was working when he retired. He just did a little bit of everything. He actually went through junior high, education wise. My grandmother Hodge actually had a high school diploma which was not real-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --common back then. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And, but yeah and my mother had two brothers. My mother was the oldest. She went to school here of course. Both of my parents grew up in Bristow and lived in Bristow their entire lives. TH: Well, both of your parents were well educated. MH: Yes. My-- they both graduated from college. My dad graduated from OSU and then went to graduate school at TU. He was-- he was disabled from the Polio. He had Polio as a child, so he had a little bit of deformity in one hand and he was deaf in one ear. So he didn' ; t qualify, he couldn' ; t get in the-- he couldn' ; t get into the Army. He wanted-- during the war-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --this was the war time and he wanted to go so badly. And he told the story about at OSU he felt like he was one of the few males on campus and in fact he was in a gym class where he was the only person. And the-- the instructor said, " ; Well this is kind of ridiculous." ; or something like that. So he said you do what you want to and at the end of the semester, he played daddy a game of something and that was it-- DB: That was his final? MH: Yeah. But he was so upset that he could not get in the service. Somehow he managed to steal the hearing test. DB: Mmm. MH: The patterns, and he memorized it and he got in. DB: And he got in? MH: And he was in the Army and he was an MP in Japan after all of that my-- and his job-- one of his MP jobs, was to take the prostitutes every-- gather them up every week and take them for their weekly checkups. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: (Chuckling) and my grandmother was so horrified that he was doing that, that she made up what he was doing over there. She wouldn' ; t tell-- DB: Even though she got the play money from the condom-- MH: No this is-- DB: Oh (Chuckling). MH: Now this is the Hughes. DB: Oh okay. MH: This is the Hughes side. DB: (Laughing) MH: I' ; m sorry. DB: That' ; s alright. MH: But they-- yeah. She would tell-- she wouldn' ; t tell her church lady friends what he was doing over there. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: Now my dad was quite the-- the prankster. He did a lot of stuff. I heard stories about him when I was in high school from some of the same teachers that he had had. DB: Oh, yes. MH: Uh-huh. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah. DB: I could do that now. I' ; ve had so many different generations come through. MH: Mm-hmm DB: And it' ; s hard to not hold that against the child (Chuckling). MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Whenever you-- you know how the parent was-- MH: Right. DB: --whenever you had them, but-- MH: Uh-huh. DB: --you do. MH: And I have-- I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he-- you know he really-- you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he-- daddy convinced Mose-- DB: Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to-- it was New Orleans wasn' ; t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad-- my grandfather evidently told Mose said, " ; You keep an eye on him don' ; t let him out of your sight." ; ' ; cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we' ; re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket-- DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: --to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of-- I can' ; t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad' ; s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde' ; s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can' ; t remember but-- MH: They won one. TH: They won one and then the other one, Clyde didn' ; t remember anything about the game after the second-- after the first quarter. MH: Right. TH: He got thumped. MH: He got hit. TH: He got knocked out. MH: Because I think it said something about, this came from-- something about the goal post being torn down after TU won. So it must have been the first game so. Well, see Rosemary' ; s daughter Vicki (ph) and I have been lifelong best friends since we were babies and so I gave her all that stuff after you know I found-- DB: Oh, how wonderful. MH: --so she has all of that. So that was kind of a cool thing, you know. DB: If they had only known that Mose was a few years earlier, letting kids skip class to go hunting ducks-- TH: It was a-- DB: They probably wouldn' ; t have let him go to the Sugar Bowl. TH: It was hilarious. I was sworn to secrecy. I couldn' ; t tell anybody about that. Oh my gosh, and I didn' ; t. I didn' ; t. DB: Oh. TH: I had this little ole girl ask me. She said, " ; Where were you this morning?" ; I said, " ; Oh, I was late getting up." ; DB: (Chuckling) MH: Well and you need to tell-- you need to-- it needs to be on record about your mom being the town librarian for umpteen thousand years. TH: Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ' ; 70' ; s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don' ; t you? DB: Where the administration building-- MH: Yes. TH: That' ; s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries-- DB: You don' ; t think she was still there like in ' ; 81? TH: Oh, I can' ; t remember when-- DB: When she retired. I have been here since ' ; 81 and I can almost-- I think-- TH: Do you remember my mother-- DB: I think she was the one in there. MH: She might' ; ve been. I don' ; t remember because-- TH: Was she always telling you to be quiet and don' ; t talk. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah, that would be her. DB: She was kind of-- TH: Oh, she was meaner than shit and scary. MH: (Laughter) TH: I used to tease here I said, " ; Hell you' ; re a librarian-- DB: Them closing. TH: --in a town. You' ; re a librarian in a town nobody can read." ; DB: And Rita Oaks (ph) worked in the back and helped and that was Larry' ; s cousin. MH: See I don' ; t know a Rita Oaks (ph). DB: Max and Bernice Oaks (ph). Anyway Rita (ph) worked in the library in one of those back offices-- ' ; cause it seemed like Ms. Herman always set up here at the front. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And she had an office there were two offices behind the central desk. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And then there was somebody else always there, but I can' ; t remember. A boy? A man? I don' ; t know. But anyway, she was the town-- imposing town librarian-- MH: Yes. DB: -- for many, many years. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Over twenty years-- TH: I didn' ; t live here at that time. I would-- MH: But she was very helpful. You know, because back in the day when we had to do research papers. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, your sophomore, junior and senior year. It was all-- you had to do everything by looking through a card catalog-- DB: Yes. MH: --and looking up stuff and Mrs. Armith (ph) (chuckling) was extremely helpful-- DB: Yes. MH: --about that kind of stuff and she was very knowledgeable. You know, she could be a pill but-- and people that we know now that worked with her, you know like student aids or something-- back then would help her at school. I mean at the library after school. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, they loved working with-- she knew a lot for somebody that wasn' ; t a librarian by training. She-- DB: So how did she become the librarian? MH: Do you know Todd? Do you remember? TH: The mayor was Bill Shibley (ph). My dad was the city clerk. DB: And they needed one? TH: And they-- they needed one and so Bill Shibley (ph) and the council agreed with it and she-- they hired her to be the librarian. She was just pleased as hell to get out of the house and go to the library, and she basically self-trained herself. She had to fuss with the library board all the time. DB: (Chuckling) TH: They were very unkind and ignorant. I won' ; t name names. MH: No. TH: But they' ; re-- they' ; re here. I think they' ; re-- MH: Todd! TH: -- probably all gone by now, but anyway-- DB: No names. MH: No names. TH: -- oh it was ugly. There was a lot of fussing going on. You know, and-- DB: But she held her own? She held her own. TH: Pretty much. She did alright and-- DB: Well she built it up to something that was pretty-- TH: Well she got-- DB: --pretty great for-- TH: --she got mad. They had some library graduates. Library science grads come down here from OSU-- DB: Hmm. TH: --and go through the library. " ; Oh you don' ; t need this book. You don' ; t need that book." ; And they went through and they got rid and she had some-- she had some great material down there. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She had a pictorial history of the Civil War. There were three big volumes and they made her get rid of that. When I found that out I just absolutely-- DB: Hmm. TH: --I got so upset about that and I went to Bill Bursler (ph) and told him what a dumb shit he was. MH: Okay Todd. That' ; s enough on that. TH: So I won' ; t say anymore. MH: No, don' ; t. Honey, don' ; t. TH: I could not believe they threw that stuff out. DB: Yeah. TH: She said, " ; I was in tears when they boxed that up and carried it out of here." ; They had-- they had these library science people come down. You know you still had the old Dewey Decimal System of Classification going back then. DB: Oh yes. TH: You remember studying-- DB: Well they still have-- TH: --about that? DB: Well they still put books up with the Dewey Decimal System but-- TH: Do they? Okay. DB: Yeah. TH: That' ; s good. DB: Well they still have them shelved that way but-- TH: Now everything all digital and-- DB: --but-- TH: -- and all that stuff. DB: You look everything up digitally but there' ; s still-- TH: That' ; s right. So anyway, that-- I remember being all upset about getting rid of all that Civil War stuff. DB: I was always the one when Jennifer (ph) would take old books out of the library-- I couldn' ; t let an old book go by and I' ; d always-- whenever I was teaching and I' ; d say, " ; I don' ; t know how I' ; d use that in my classroom, but let me have that book anyway." ; And kind of house some of those old books and the kids don' ; t look at books nowadays. TH: No. DB: Because it takes time to look at a book. They can' ; t get to it immediately. Some of those books were pictorial of the National Parks. MH: Priceless. Yes. DB: Or whatever. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And it just-- I couldn' ; t see her-- TH: No, some of that stuff-- DB: --do away with ' ; em. So I understand the feeling. TH: --some of the stuff was published in the 20' ; s. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: You know, it was old. DB: Mm-hmm. I understand those feelings. TH: Yeah. DB: Well now, think hard about-- TH: I have another story-- DB: Okay. TH: --about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of-- and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20' ; s or in the 30' ; s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. TH: That' ; s the Judge Herman. DB: Oh, okay. So I know what one is, but why don' ; t you explain what a soup kitchen is. TH: Well that' ; s where you had a place that you could feed hungry men. Hungry people. Men, women children, whoever showed up. And there was a big ice plant at Main and the railroad tracks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: On the southeast corner across the street. Really where the-- DB: Community Bank drive-thru-- TH: Community Bank drive in would be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It was a great big building. Had a big steam generator in it, and they made ice. Sam Blackburn (ph) was the manager of that thing and they had-- they made ice because the trains would come through here with produce and they' ; d have to keep-- you didn' ; t have refrigerated-- DB: Right. TH: --cars back then-- DB: Right. TH: --if you wanted-- if you were shipping vegetables from California to Chicago, you did it by train and you put ice in it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that' ; s the reason you had the ice plant. Well they set the soup kitchen up down there at the ice plant and I remember seeing pictures of men lined up to get food. It was a soup kitchen, they cooked it and fed it-- fed people there. DB: Was that like during the depression? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s during the depression of the 30' ; s. That' ; s the reason Oklahoma was so heavily democratic for years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Because of Roosevelt. They didn' ; t like Hoover who was a Republican. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: ' ; Cause he didn' ; t do anything about the depression. There was no government relief back then. You wound up having the WPA around here and everything. I can show you WPA bridges now that are still on these county roads and bridges and stuff that are still good. DB: Wasn' ; t it the WPA that did something at the park? MH: Built-- DB: Built the amphitheater or the-- MH: Built the amphitheater-- TH: Yes, that was the amphitheater, MH: --and the entrance to the park-- DB: Yes. MH: --there was the big plaque there which they preserved. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: When they-- when they changed that entrance. The way it looks now with the-- you know they replaced the stone with the brick-- DB: Yes, I remember-- MH: --that was WPA. Wasn' ; t it Todd? TH: Yes. DB: I thought I had remembered hearing that. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And there was a ranch down south of Slick now. You go down this ole ranch road and there' ; s a bridge-- a concrete bridge up there. DB: Yes. TH: And it' ; s got WPA on it. And it was an old county road and since it' ; s been abandoned. DB: Huh. TH: And there' ; s another WPA bridge out on 201st like you' ; re going to where Levan Kelly lives. Says WPA it' ; s on the concrete. And that was started by president Roosevelt. MH: So the soup kitchen Todd, that-- there were-- TH: Yeah. MH: --soup kitchens all over the country. TH: Yeah. But my grandfather-- MH: But he was the one that started it here-- TH: Started it here in Bristow. DB: How long did it-- TH: I don' ; t know. I' ; ve seen pictures of men. My mother had some pictures. They were probably at the public library and got thrown out with all the trash. MH: (Laughter) DB: But that happened for the whole time-- TH: Well we had a great economy-- DB: I know-- good-- TH: Depression had started in October of 1929 and lasted actually until World War II started. We still were in a depression when World War II started. DB: Okay, so the soup kitchen could' ; ve easily been there ten years? TH: Well, I don' ; t know how long it was-- DB: But it could have been there for a while-- TH: Well no, it' ; s just-- that' ; s the way it was-- MH: Well-- TH: I' ; ve always heard this my whole life. " ; You want (Indecipherable) tell it like it is kid." ; . He went to a man named RL Jones (ph). Have you ever heard that name? DB: I have. TH: That' ; s Roger Collins (ph) grandfather. RL Jones (ph) was a Mississippi planter that came up here. His brother was in on the Cushing oil field. Lots of money. He went to RL Jones (ph), and RL (ph) said " ; What do you need? Just go down to the Safeway Store and get what you need and I' ; ll take care of it." ; RL Jones (ph) had a big interest in this country. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And was very philanthropic. MH: Well, and I think too, Todd-- I mean like, I did not grow up the way my dad did. My dad lived an extremely charmed life and they had people that worked for them full time. That kind of thing. But my dad-- because during the depression and all that, he lived totally differently than the people that were having to go to the-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --soup kitchens to eat and all that. Because of that and he can remember as a child-- you know, hearing stories and seeing and things with the Dust Bowl and all of that. He was extremely generous. We were taught to be generous. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He felt like, he never felt he was better than anybody else and he could talk to anybody-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: -- you know, from the lowest of the low to the, you know. So I think everybody came out of that era, especially in Oklahoma. It effected everybody differently-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know my mother grow up-- grew up, they didn' ; t have much. She didn' ; t have indoor plumbing until she was like nine years old. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, so it was-- DB: Right. Well, because then my mother, she' ; ll save the smallest portion of food-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --because she can eat it and you know, so-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and when we-- when my grandmother passed away-- MH: Right. DB: --we went through her freezer and they would find really small amounts of things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but when you live through that time with nothing, you saved everything-- MH: Yes. DB: --because you didn' ; t know where your next meal was gonna come from or how much you would have. You might need to piece-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it together with all these-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --little things and so I can see that you had people coming out feeling that they didn' ; t know where their next meal was gonna come from-- MH: Right. DB: --and then you had the people over here who saw the-- what it had done and wanted to be-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --generous and you know. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: My dad was that way. He was, you know he was a young man during The Depression and had been poor-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and had a hard time. It had effected my dad-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --all his life. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anything he could take and convert to cash, he would do it. He got in my mother' ; s jewelry box one time and she had all this jewelry because her grandfather-- her father had the jewelry store. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And when they sold that, she took a bunch of it. And it was-- it was not, you know. He takes it and sells it! MH: (Laughter) TH: To Jim Tallent at the pawn shop down here and she comes up and it' ; s missing. And she keeps (Indecipherable) getting in her jewelry box-- DB: Oh my! TH: --and she raised hell with my dad and made him go back down to Jim Tallent-- DB: (Laughter) and get her jewelry back! TH: --and get her jewelry back (Laughter). I remember that going on. Do you know what he did? I remember her telling me that on the phone. I just absolutely, absolutely dying laughing. DB: I went to my grandmother' ; s house one time and she had this-- I still have the lamp in my bedroom. But she had this lamp, it had no shade and it was green and I just-- oh I wanted that lamp. Larry and I-- it was, we had just got-- been married a few years and you could take things like that on the airplane then-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and so, she gave-- they lived in Farmington, New Mexico. So she gave me that lamp and I remember my grandad saying, " ; Why do you always give away our best stuff?" ; MH: (Laughter) DB: And this thing had been out in the garage for who knows how long-- MH: Yeah! TH: Yeah. DB: --but he was saying-- accusing her of giving away their best stuff and she' ; d say " ; Well, they' ; re gonna use it." ; TH: Well, you have to understand what makes these people-- you know. MH: Well my mother would save-- which maybe a lot of people do, my brother does it. I couldn' ; t do it, drives me nuts. You know like the baggies? You use a baggy to put something in the fridge? DB: And wash it out and use it again-- MH: My mother would wash them out and that was the-- do you do that too? DB: No, my mother does though. MH: Oh, and that' ; s from the depr-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --I mean that is not having much-- DB: She saves aluminum foil too. (Laughter) MH: Yes, mother did. Yes. DB: Yes. MH: Yes. Yeah, so it' ; s, you know. DB: It' ; s all from that time period and I learned from someone whose parents had been through that, so I had those tendencies. That I' ; ll save a little bit of food-- MH: Right, well I do that too. DB: Or I want to take care to reuse things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --when I can. Maybe not to the extreme she does-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but you know, we' ; re all effected. Your generous with what you have, because of what you saw parents do. Because they had seen-- MH: Right. DB: --their parents do it and we are. MH: But you know, it' ; s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --the second. So they-- and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad' ; s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home-- I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, " ; Okay, she' ; s" ; -- they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm-- a ward, they called it. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: There were all these cribs and the little girl was supposedly across the room at the other end. Well they-- so they' ; re walking to go see her and they walk by this crib where this child is just screaming and crying and just going crazy and my grandfather stopped and he said, " ; We' ; ll take that one." ; and it was my dad. DB: (Gasp) Oh how awesome! TH: That' ; s a great story. DB: That is a good story. TH: You' ; ve never told me that. MH: Oh yes I have. DB: (Laughter) TH: (Laughter) I couldn' ; t remember. MH: Yeah. DB: You didn' ; t remember it. That is unbelievable. TH: I' ; m always in trouble for not remembering. MH: And so my dad always said-- and he said this all the time, " ; I believe in miracles." ; Because from that moment was a miracle and when he was-- when my mother was pregnant with me, my dad was real worried that he would pass something along to me. Because he had no-- no genuine relatives and so my grandmother wrote a letter to the home-- DB: Where he had come from. MH: Where he had come from, and said she wanted as much information as possible. And I have the letter that they wrote her back, and his-- they told her that there was nothing to, you know be concerned about. His father had been in his forties and was an attorney and they were from back east. His mother who had been sent to this place in Kansas City had come from a wealthy family. She was like nineteen or twenty and she was a legal secretary. DB: So they were-- MH: So you kind of put together the story behind that. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And talked about her physical descriptions. Talked about his dads and you know, so that was-- you know. His fears were put aside-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --but he was so concerned and when I graduated, when I graduated from Bristow, I went to KU to college and when I was I think maybe a junior, there was big article in the Kansas City paper about-- it was around the time that they were forcing adoption records to-- they were start trying to get some of them opened. And there was a lawsuit against the home which was still existed that my dad had come from in Kansas City. DB: Hmm. MH: And that all of these people were signing on to this lawsuit to force them to open their records. And I remember calling home and telling daddy about it and saying, " ; You need to do this, you know here is who you contact" ; you know blah blah blah. And he said, " ; No." ; and I said, " ; What, you why?" ; you know and he said, " ; I had the best parents anybody could' ; ve ever wanted. I was blessed. That' ; s all I need to know." ; DB: There you go. MH: So he never would-- DB: Well and his fears also had been taken care of when they told him that little bit that they told him, so. MH: And we all turned out semi-normal. So-- (Laughter) TH: You' ; re more than semi-normal. DB: (Laughter) MH: Well and so-- TH: You' ; re outstanding. MH: No, well and then there' ; s a great-- I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to a Kelly somewhere along the line. There' ; s a great story about my dad and Tracy Kelly. They played together, they were the same age, they played together as kids. And there' ; s a story, Tracy told this at my dad' ; s funeral. This was a true story. One day he was-- Tracy came over here to play with daddy. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And daddy got tired of Tracy. DB: (Laughter) MH: So he-- the story was a hammer. I don' ; t know if it was a real hammer, but he picked up a hammer and hit Tracy in the head. DB: Oh my. MH: And so he started screaming and crying. My dad went and got on the phone and he called Dorcas and he said, " ; You need to come get Tracy-- (Laughter) MH: --he won' ; t stop crying and I' ; m tired of playing with him!" ; (Laughter) MH: And they were like six years old or something like that. DB: Oh! Oh my goodness! MH: Yeah, they were just little boys-- DB: The little boy called Dorcas. MH: Yes! DB: Oh! MH: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: ' ; Cause see all those families-- DB: He' ; s crying and he won' ; t stop-- MH: Crying. Yeah. You know ' ; cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it' ; s just-- there' ; s so much that' ; s-- all that history' ; s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it' ; s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it' ; s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was-- I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these-- this couple-- I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, " ; Well I grew up in Oklahoma" ; and the guy said, " ; Really, where?" ; and I said, " ; Oh, you' ; ve never heard of it." ; He said, " ; Well try me." ; And I said, " ; It' ; s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow." ; And he said, " ; Bristow?" ; he said, " ; There' ; s--" ; he said, " ; I know something about Bristow." ; He said, " ; There' ; s a real famous athlete from Bristow." ; And I said, " ; Really?" ; (Laughter) MH: And he goes, " ; Yeah! Real famous." ; I said, " ; What' ; s his name?" ; and he said, " ; Clyde LeForce" ; I said, " ; Oh, Clyde. Clyde' ; s just Clyde." ; (Laughter) DB: He' ; s not famous. Yes. MH: I' ; ve known him my whole life. DB: Yes. MH: You know ; it was just-- but that was so strange. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, just to have that-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Your parents are friends and then your friends and you know. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And we didn' ; t even know each other so. DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want-- DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven' ; t even scratched the surface ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn' ; t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life-- a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was-- I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn' ; t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that' ; s another long story. DB: Where' ; d you go to school? TH: Well I wound up going to school at Alva, Oklahoma at Northwest Oklahoma State. That' ; s where I graduated from. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; d gone down to OU as a invited walk on. Stayed three days and left. I was not near as good as I thought I was. (Laughter) TH: And I was always ashamed about that but anyway, went up to Central State and enrolled and went to school up there and quite frankly, I was very immature. I couldn' ; t stay out of the beer joints and Oklahoma City had all these honky tonks, and I had a fake ID that said I was twenty-one when I was nineteen or twenty. You could buy one of those for five dollars from the print shop at Edmond. They' ; d make you up one and I had bad grades and you know if you don' ; t go to class-- MH: You flunked it out, Todd! TH: I didn' ; t flunk out. MH: (Laughter) DB: You were not gonna go through that first grade thing again. MH: No. Right. Yeah. TH: I was gonna go ahead and volunteer for the army ' ; cause you had the military draft back then and I-- my mother had a friend. She was my friend too, her name was Marie Arthurs. Her husband was Judge Arthurs, he was a superior court judge. Not district court, Oklahoma still had the superior court-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --system back then. And she came over at Christmas and she had gone to Alva to teach and she was over there and my mother was so upset with me-- MH: Well they were all long time family here. I don' ; t know if you' ; ve heard about the Arthurs at all, but. TH: Yeah, the Arthurs family. She called me and she said, " ; Would you come over." ; She lived right next door to the Schumacher funeral home. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: There was a house there. That' ; s where they lived. Well her son is my friend that lives in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. I remember that name. TH: And Stewart (ph) was Stewart was-- MH: He was sword fighting with him. (Laughter) TH: Yeah. That sword fighting buddy. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Stewart (ph) had gone up there out of college. Stewart (ph) was a great athlete and she came over and said, " ; Todd, I' ; ve called the football coach at Alva. He' ; s expecting you to come up and visit with him tomorrow." ; That' ; s the way she put it. She said, " ; I hope you go." ; DB: And you went. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: So the next morning, I left and I drove up to Alva. I never seen a wheat field that big in my life. DB: (Laughter) TH: I had to stop and ask a guy. I said, " ; What' ; s all that green stuff growing out there?" ; and he says, " ; Son, that' ; s winter wheat." ; They didn' ; t grow any winter wheat around here. Corn and milo and cotton and stuff like that. I remember seeing that, and anyway I went up there and met the football coach, and he said, " ; Yeah" ; he said, " ; Come on up and I' ; ll give you a little scholarship." ; And so hell, I went and there was about three of us that wound up going up there to school. Burton Lincoln (ph) and Duwayne Whited (ph) and I don' ; t know. So I went up there and went to school. DB: And played ball? TH: Yeah! You know, hell I hadn' ; t had a-- I hadn' ; t had a shoulder pads or helmet on three years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I had chances to go to small schools out of high school, but my dad always talked me out of it. My dad was a very negative person. You know, everything was the dark at the end of the tunnel and I am definitely not that way. I' ; m the light at the end of the tunnel, we' ; ll get to the end of the tunnel if there' ; s a problem, we' ; ll figure it out. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She gets mad at me for saying that they' ; ll figure it out. MH: (Laughter) TH: And she worries. Mary D.' ; s a planner and a plotter and I' ; m not. I just kind of fly by the side of my pants, and anyway I went up there and here' ; s all these ole boys and there were a couple of guys that I had gone to high school with that were up there and I went up there and I wound up playing and graduating. It was a big deal when I graduated and I never did teach and I wound up, I was in the international guard and I did that so I didn' ; t-- I was about to get drafted. And this was Pre-Vietnam but I didn' ; t wasn' ; t to get drafted in the army ' ; cause I talked to too many draftees. If you can avoid it, do it. But anyway, did that and went to work for an oil field chemical company and lived up in Kansas and went through a marriage and left and came back to Oklahoma and wound up going to work for a big insurance company, being an insurance salesman. My God, I didn' ; t want to be an insurance salesman. DB: (Laughter) TH: But it was a good thing I did and I worked for this company for twenty-six years. DB: Oh my. TH: And I retired when I was fifty-seven. And I' ; ve had a good life, I' ; ve-- it' ; s like ole Levi. I said, " ; You know you grow up, you want to be a play boy." ; And I don' ; t mean a play boy-- DB: Right. TH: Play boy. I mean, live the good life. DB: That' ; s right. TH: Levi loves to hunt. I' ; ve corrupted him and I' ; ve corrupted his brother Michael. Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They' ; ve been taught how to shoot. They' ; ve all got nice guns and they' ; re my students. That' ; s what I call em' ; . They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I' ; m proud of em' ; . They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And-- DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That' ; s my great nephews. MH: Great nephews. DB: Great nephews. TH: That' ; s my niece, Kelly' ; s (ph) children. DB: Okay. TH: And when she called me up when Levi, I think was nine and Michael was eleven and said " ; Oh Todd, these boys are just bugging me. They want to go hunting so bad." ; And it was about three days, four days before deer season, so hell I gathered em' ; up and we go to learn how to shoot a rifle one afternoon. They get to go deer hunting and kill a deer opening day and I remember Levi calling his mother on the cell phone jumping up and down, " ; I killed a deer mom, I killed a deer!" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: You know. MH: Todd just has one sister so that' ; s-- TH: Anyway, there-- I don' ; t have any actual children. I have-- I raised a couple of kids with my second wife that didn' ; t turn out too well. The boys dead and the girls-- the girls just-- MH: Has issues. TH: --she has a lot of issues. But, she had two children. Two little girls and we helped raise those two little girls and so I' ; m close to them. (Indecipherable) I went over there, took a birthday gift to the seven-year-old and the three-year-old comes up and she says, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: ' ; Cause I always take ' ; em a box of tacos. They love tacos. DB: You forgot the tacos. TH: I didn' ; t take the tacos, and the three-year-old comes up, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; (Laughter). DB: Hmm. TH: Anyway, that' ; s just part of my-- that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn' ; t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That' ; s-- how long you-- how long have we been married? Let' ; s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. MH: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don' ; t think I would' ; ve liked him if (Laughter) when we were growing up. TH: No, she wouldn' ; t of. MH: He was quite the (Indecipherable). What was it you won every year as a big wheel? Loudest-- TH: Most mischievous. MH: Mischievous! Yeah. TH: Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Embarrassed my mother and my dad. " ; That' ; s all you do." ; DB: (Laughter) TH: Weren' ; t you most likely to succeed and smartest? MH: No. DB: Instead of Mischievous. TH: No I' ; m just-- I am. You are what you are! DB: That is! TH: Isn' ; t that the truth? DB: That is the absolute truth. TH: And I have had-- I' ; ll have to say this, the experiences that I had growing up in Bristow have served me well, I have many friends. I' ; ll give an example, on Tuesday of this week was the opening day of turkey season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It' ; s a tradition that myself and two of my friends open the season together. There-- we' ; re all Bristow boys. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: My two friends don' ; t live here, but this is still home. Their parents are buried here ; they will be buried here. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: I will be buried here in Bristow. This is home. We have all these pleasant memories-- DB: That' ; s right. TH: --about running up and down these streets here on west-- the west side of town. MH: And it' ; s so different than it used to be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. DB: I mean there are factions around, you know little groups around town that I feel like there' ; s that same connection to the town, but they' ; re few and far between. And most of them have connections that go back, and back, and back and they' ; re just continuing the tradition with their children. I mean Linda and her-- I see her children raising their children in the same way with the craziness and the-- MH: Right. DB: The playing and I mean the stories that she used to tell living on Sixth Street and it was just like there' ; s that past. TH: Sixth Street was the big time street. This-- I was raised on Ninth Street. My two friends that I was telling you about-- one of them was raised over here on Eighth street, the house is still there. The other one was raised up on Tenth Street. MH: Oh and see we had like the house behind here. That was the John' ; s family. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And they had four kids. We were each the same age as the other one. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, Judd Johns. You know Judd? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay, he and my brother, they were like a year apart and they-- we, the four was each other' ; s family. We were together all the time and our bedroom was up here and Billy-- the oldest one-- his bedroom was on the back part of the house also. And when we were kids we would raise our windows and you know we listened to WLS out of Chicago, cause that was the station-- the rock station-- TH: That' ; s right. MH: --that you could get at night. TH: That and WOAI MH: Yeah. TH: In San Antonio. MH: And we would turn our radios on the same station and we would just talk out the back windows. We had phones but you know, we used to keep their Santa gifts in our house and you know Judd and my brother when they were little boys, the Kirchner' ; s lived on the corner up here and Billy, Mick (ph) and Judd were playing detectives. Now they are little kids and they go knock on Mrs. Kirchner' ; s door and they had had no children and they were old at the time. And they said, " ; We need to come check out your house." ; And she said, " ; Why?" ; and they told her something about, " ; Well there was a suspect." ; I' ; m sure they didn' ; t use the name suspect, but they had to go check out her house and she let them in. She let ' ; em go through all of the whole-- and of course and then I' ; m sure she called my mom and Virginia, you know. But you know, there were the Johns-- Virginia Johns used to keep pop on her back porch and that was in bottles and you' ; d have the cases and-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --they bottled, okay. Well there was a family by the name of the Coburgs (ph) that lived two or three doors up, a bunch of kids. Well the Coburgs (ph) would come and get into the pop all the time. DB: Hmm. MH: So Virginia-- the mom-- Judd' ; s mother, who was a riot. She thought, " ; I' ; m gonna get them." ; So she took some of those pop bottles and she opened ' ; em and she poured half the pop out and then filled the rest with vinegar or something foul and then put the cap back on. (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. MH: I mean I could talk for hours about stories about growing up here with you know, and the kids. But it' ; s like Todd said, everybody knew everybody. You couldn' ; t get away with doing anything. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, when we would go trick-or-treating people would set up haunted houses in their homes, and you' ; d go in and you never thought anything about it. And our parents weren' ; t with us we were just in gangs. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Walking the streets and it' ; s just-- my boys didn' ; t grow up that way. You couldn' ; t you just didn' ; t do that ; you know? DB: Well when I moved here, I was impressed because I had never lived-- I had lived in Tulsa-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and then I had lived in Owasso. I had never lived someplace where they would close Main Street for whatever function and you could just walk around in the middle of the road. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And everybody knew everybody and I was so glad that I was finally here and-- TH: I knew that there was seven or eight Bristow policeman. I knew every one of ' ; em by first name. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They knew who I was. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: If I got out of line-- DB: That-- TH: You weren' ; t gonna hide it. DB: My husband grew up here, so he-- MH: Exactly. DB: --is the same way. TH: Yes. MH: That' ; s exactly the truth. DB: And then they' ; d run him down because he was kind of-- liked to visit those places you were talking about and he liked to race cars and they would pull him over and put him in jail and then let him go and say, " ; Go home" ; and he would go home and then be right back out a few hours later-- TH: They had-- DB: --doing the same thing! TH: --and they had one police car. DB: And they, you know-- but-- TH: One police car for the whole town. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Now they got thirteen of ' ; em down there. MH: And we had a Teen Town (ph) DB: Mm-hmm. MH: To go-- what they would do like a big thing and you know-- the fair-- we still call it-- I still call it the fairgrounds. I don' ; t know what they call it now. But where they have all those buildings-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that the city stores stuff, you know? There' ; d be like big festivals in the fall and you could go out-- who knows what we did out there. I don' ; t remember, I just-- it was around-- DB: It was the fairgrounds. MH: Yeah and it was around Halloween and you know-- TH: Well they had-- they had a fair. They had the Creek County Free Fair out there in the fall. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was that what it was? TH: Yes, that was a big deal. They had a carnival come in. Oh I remember all that. DB: If there was fairgrounds, there had to be a fair. TH: I have-- MH: Yeah, well what' ; s-- TH: --to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That' ; s how everybody traveled back then-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker-- they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur' ; s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a-- this was all Democratic country back then. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: The only Republicans were the Kelly' ; s. That' ; s the only Republicans in town. Everybody else was a Democrat. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Roosevelt. Because of the Depression. MH: Well-- TH: Now, I can remember-- MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Pardon? MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Well, he was in a minority back then. MH: Oh. TH: He was really, he was. DB: But Bristow was a stop-- TH: This was a stop on the train-- DB: --on this presidential-- TH: On the-- yeah. They got out and he had-- DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Adlai Stevenson-- MH: How old were you, Todd? Do you remember? TH: Well, it was in 1952. MH: Oh-- TH: Adlai-- MH: --so you were like thirteen, something like that? TH: Yeah. Twelve, thirteen years old. I was probably in the seventh grade. MH: Well my grandmother could remember when they would talk about-- she would talk about when Eleanor Roosevelt came through-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: --on the stops. Because she was doing like a WPA. TH: (Cough) Pardon me. MH: Wasn' ; t she something-- TH: No that was for the amphitheater at Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Yeah. TH: She gave the speech dedicating the amphitheater. DB: But that' ; s pretty amazing that Bristow was a stop-- TH: Well this was the main line. DB: --on the presidential-- TH: The Frisco Railroad was the main line. It hooked in and went on west. DB: Well I had no idea. TH: Oh, we had-- MH: There was a lot of-- TH: A lot of trains. A lot of passenger trains. MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ' ; 30' ; s, ' ; 40' ; s, late ' ; 20' ; s, there was a lot-- there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It' ; s how all of these beautiful churches got built and-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian-- MH: The Methodist. TH: -- the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are-- TH: Boy I tell you what you should-- what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. DB: They may have. TH: He was-- MH: They might have caught--interviewed him or Maree. TH: --Absolutely amazing guy. DB: I know they did the-- TH: And Mr. Friarson (ph) DB: Freeland (ph)? TH: Who? DB: No. TH: Krumme? DB: Krumme. I know they' ; ve interviewed the Krumme' ; s. TH: Yes. George Krumme. DB: Yes. TH: Harland (ph) and George. MH: Did they interview Tracy or Levan? DB: I-- I don' ; t know. MH: Back then? DB: I don' ; t think so. MH: ' ; Cause Levan was a gold mine too. Roger Collins (ph) is a gold mine. DB: Royce is the only one-- MH: Yeah, that' ; s Peter' ; s (ph) dad. DB: Mm-hmm. That-- I mean Levan was his brother and Tracy was I mean-- TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And he gave me the stories about his mom and dad and how they met and-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --what he could remember about early Bristow, but I didn' ; t have anything to do with the first recordings. MH: Right because they did those in the 70' ; s I think, early 80' ; s. DB: Yeah, now Betty (ph) but I don' ; t know-- I mean somebody could talk to Betty (ph)-- MH: Betty Kelly (ph)? DB: Kelly. Or Polly (ph) but I don' ; t know that anybody has. MH: Well see, Betty (ph) grew up here. TH: Polly grew up in Independence, Kansas. MH: Yeah. Betty (ph) would know. Betty (ph) would probably remember. She would probably be a good person if somebody hasn' ; t talked to-- DB: Is she a McMillian? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Mm-hmm. MH: Yes. DB: That' ; s what I thought. MH: And see, its-- everything is so entwined like my dad' ; s name was William Mack Hughes. The Mack is from the McMillian name because the McMillians and my grandparents, the Hughes were very best friends. DB: See there' ; s the-- yeah. Everything is-- MH: And that' ; s why Betty (ph) and Levan ended up-- DB: By the dairy. MH: Yes, because it was her aunt and uncle that McMillian that were good friends with my grandparents. And my grandparents gave them five acres on the other side of the road that the Hughes owned and so McMillians built a cabin and I have a picture of all of them standing outside our cabin and they were-- it was a party invitation-- DB: Huh. MH: They were doing like part of the party at the Hughes cabin and then they were going across the road for dessert at the McMillian cabin. And like the Dokes are in that picture. You know, like Linda Trigalet' ; s ancestors and-- DB: Wow. MH: Yeah. But so that' ; s how-- yeah. Mm-hmm. But Betty (ph), Betty (ph) would know a lot. I would think. Somebody should talk to her now. She' ; s ninety something. DB: Mm-hmm. I' ; ll put her on the list. MH: And I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to JC (ph)? DB: They won' ; t let us in the nursing home. MH: They won' ; t? DB: Hmm-mm. They tried. Georgia' ; s tried. And I mean, the longer you wait, you know. TH: How about Eddie-- DB: --the harder it gets to-- TH: How about Eddie Bishop? Has anybody talked to Eddie Bishop at the tabbouleh place? DB: Hmm-mm. TH: See his folks had a grocery store here for years. MH: See, the Bishop family would be a-- that would be-- you know there were a lot of Bishops in town. TH: But I have to brag about Bristow. I had a good upbringing. I had a good education from the high school, at least I felt like I did. I could' ; ve got a lot better one if I would' ; ve been mature enough to put out more effort. But I was a goof off my whole life. I wanted to have a good time and but gee, I' ; ve been all over the world hunting. Well not all over the world, but I' ; ve been-- what have I been. I' ; ve been-- DB: A good piece of it. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Well, I' ; ve been to Canada twenty- three straight falls hunting. DB: Wow. TH: I went to Alaska thirteen straight years fishing. DB: Oh, Tom Miller used to make that trek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: He' ; d go up ; I don' ; t know where-- north. TH: Tom went to the Yukon-- DB: Is that Canada? TH: Yeah. DB: Okay. (Chuckling) TH: He was up there, he was mining. He was gold mining. DB: I just know that-- TH: He and-- DB: --when I worked with Martha, he went up there every year. TH: He and Oscar. MH: Todd' ; s very fond of Tom. TH: Tom was-- he was a neighbor to my parents over on ninth street and I got to know Tom. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And-- DB: He was a pretty good guy. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was a good guy. Tough son of a gun. MH: I never had him in school for some reason but-- DB: Well, and I didn' ; t go here but I met him afterword' ; s. MH: everybody did-- said he was-- DB: And I always liked him. MH: I had, you know--some of these teachers when I was in school had had my parents and I actually had the math teacher at the high school tell me, in class, " ; You' ; re certainly not the student your mother was. What happened to you?" ; or something. TH: Was that Ms. Gurley (ph). MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) MH: Yes, sir. DB: I' ; ve heard that name before too. MH: Yeah. TH: Yeah. MH: So I bet you' ; ve heard some interesting stories, Debbie. DB: Heard some different things. Heard some different things. I' ; m gonna turn this off unless you guys have more. TH: No. TH: I hope I haven' ; t hurt anybody' ; s feelings. DB: No, we' ; ll take care of that. End of interview. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml
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Todd and Mary Herman
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In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time.
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OHP-2020-14
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2021-04-09
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Video Histories
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Quince Brown
WWII
Flying Ace
Fighter Pilot
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5.4 Unknown Date OHP-0003-V Quince Brown, Bristow's WWII Fighter Ace OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince 00:30:01 'Bristow Historical Society-Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Quince Brown WWII Flying Ace Fighter Pilot m4v OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince 1:|57(1)|66(10)|74(1)|84(3)|92(3)|99(3)|102(5)|107(11)|112(5)|116(7)|120(4)|127(4)|133(13)|141(2)|150(3)|153(10)|161(1)|166(17)|172(3)|183(1)|193(7)|202(10)|207(9)|213(7)|219(4)|229(9)|239(12)|250(4)|261(2)|268(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince.m4v Other video 42 George Krumme's Introduction My name is George Krumme and I was a Bristow boy, Quince Brown1 was a slightly older Bristow boy, who became an ace fighter pilot in World War II before he was shot down and killed over in Germany 3 months after D Day. When I learned that his nephew, Rusty Brown, had a video showing clips of Quince’s fighter group, I thought it appropriate that a shortened video be made from it for those of us who have an interest in the history of World War II with a particular emphasis on Quince’s outstanding record. So, here it is! Ace Fighter Pilot ; Bristow ; George Krumme ; Germany ; Quince Brown ; World War II https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363700/quince-lucien-brown Quince Lucien Brown's Grave 267 78th Fighter Group. P-47 Era 1943-1944 This is Bob Ebee speaking on this January day in 1987 the 16-millimeter film on this videotape was shot in 1943 and 1944 at the Duxford airbase located 10 miles South of Cambridge, England. The 78th fighter group arrived in England in November of 1942 and flew their first combat mission from Duxford on April 13, 1943 (Pause in recording) This is Col. Armond(ph.) Peterson, the first group commander of the 78th. He served from May 1942 until his loss on a combat mission July 1st, 1943. Lt. Harry Dayhuff was the first 82nd squadron commanding officer who served until August of 1943. 1943 ; 1944 ; 1987 ; 364th Squadron ; 78th Fighter Group ; 82nd squadron ; 83rd Squadron ; Bob Ebee ; Bombers ; Cambridge England ; Col. Armond Peterson ; Col. Jim Stone ; Combat mission ; Duxford Air Base ; Jake Oberhansley ; Lt. Harry Dayhuff ; Major McBay ; Mission briefing 300 Lt. Maddle U.S Combat Film No. 141 This is the first of about 15 minutes of selected 78th group combat film. Note that the title gives the pilot's name, the squadron, the date and the target. Note also the English gives the day first and the month second thus 30 dash 7 means July 30th. You note the pieces of the German plane flying by. 78th Fighter Group ; Combat Formation ; German Plane 337 Lt. Pompetti U.S Combat Film No. 150 This isn’t very clear, but those big object in the background are our b-17 bombers. The mission of July 30th, 1943 held the record for first in the 78th combat history. It was the first belly tank mission and extended the p-47 range to permit crossing the border of Germany for the first time. 1943 ; B-17 Bombers ; Belly Tank ; Germany ; P-47 374 Maj. Roberts U.S Combat Film No.191 Major Gene Roberts shot down 3 German planes to become the first U.S pilot to get a triple air victory on one mission. Charlie Linden(ph.) shot down his fourth and fifth planes to become the first U.S ace in the European theater Charlie Linden ; European Theater ; German Plane ; Maj, Gene Roberts ; Triple Air Victory ; U.S Ace ; U.S Pilot 422 Capt. Price U.S Combat Film No. 192 Jack Price had a total of five air victories. We lost our second group commander on this July 30th mission, when Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle was shot down on his first mission and became a prisoner of war. Flak in the lower left. Capt. Jack Price ; Flak ; Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle ; Prisoner of War 468 Lt. Brown U.S Combat Film No. 194 and 425 The final first on July 7th -er July 30th, 1943 is shown here when Quine Brown dropped down to the deck on his return from escorting the bombers (Pause in recording) to become the first us fighter pilot to shoot up a ground target in a European theater. Bombers ; European Theater ; Ground Targets ; Quince Brown ; U.S Fighter Pilot European Theater in World War II — US Army Divisions (armydivs.com) European Theater 491 Maj. Roberts U.S Combat Film No. 550 Lt. Col. Gene Roberts CO of the 84th had the third-highest number of air victories for the 78th group with a total of nine 78th Fighter Group ; 84th Fighter Group ; Air Victories ; Lt. Col. Gene Roberts 543 F/O Pompetti U.S Combat Film No. 421 Pete Pompetti was another leader in air victories with six. He was shot down in early 1944 and was a prisoner of war. Good hits. It’s too bad the exposure isn’t better. Unfortunately, a lot of the combat film I have was not originals and some clarity is always lost in making copies and then more clarity is lost in converting 16 millimeter to video. 1944 ; Air Victories ; Fighter Pilot ; Pete Pompetti ; Prisoner of War 578 Lt. C.R Clark Combat Film No. 164 This is a little better being able to see the clouds, and this is-this is one of the more clear of the series. 78th Fighter Group ; 82 Squadron ; Fighter Pilot 615 Lt. J.J Hockery U.S Combat Film No. 165 John Hockery was the fifth leader in air victories with seven. This is another fairly clear exposure compared to many of them. He’s getting good hits there’s pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in recording) This film was used to convert-confirm victories for the pilot. Air Victories ; German Plane ; John Hockery 630 1st LT. Q.L Brown U.S Combat Film No. 310 Quince Brown was the leading ace of the 78th with 13 victories before he was lost on a strafing run. (Pause in recording) There’s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range. Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. 78th Fighter Group ; Ace ; B-7 Bomber ; Fighter Pilot ; Strafing Run 655 LT. Col. H.J Dayhuff U.S Combat Film No. 245 There’s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range 78th Fighter Group ; Fighter Pilot ; Harry Dayhuff 696 Lt. M.S Martinez U.S Combat Film No. 249 Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. Very good hits for that range. B-7 Bomber ; Combat formation 729 Lt. G.M Turley U.S Combat Film No. 879 Hell that German pilot has put his wheels down perhaps to slow down so the American pilot will overrun him. Grant Turley had six air victories before not returning from a combat mission. He’s going to get proof positive of a victory as you see the German pilot beel(ph.) out in a moment. American Pilot ; Combat Mission ; German Pilot ; Grant Turley 744 Lt. P.H. Hazelett U.S Combat Film No. 2062 Ground strafing was very exciting but much more hazardous than aerial combat the higher loss ratio resulted from intense ground fire. 78th Fighter Group ; Ground Strafing ; Lt. Hazelett ; World War II 764 Capt. W.L Boone U.S Combat Film No. 2054 Direct hits from ground fire was not too common for fighter planes at high altitudes. 78th Fighter Group ; Fighter Pilots ; Ground Fire ; World War II 802 Lt. B.M Watkins U.S Combat Film No. 2055 The 78th group set the record for the European Theater when they destroyed 135 planes on the ground on their mission of April 16th, 1945. The 78th flew a total of 450 combat missions from April 13th, 1943 to April 25th, 1945. 1945 ; 78th Fighter Group ; Combat Mission ; European Theater 837 LT. J.J Hockery U.S Combat Film No. 2150 The group destroyed three hundred thirty-eight and a half German planes in the air and three hundred fifty-eight and a half on the ground for a total of six hundred ninety-seven German planes destroyed for a loss of 167 P-47s and P-51’s. This is a ratio of four German planes lost for one U.S plane lost. A P-47 cost $104,260 in 1943 and today a modern jet fighter cost several million dollars in comparison. 1943 ; 78th Fighter Group ; German Planes ; Jet Fighter ; P-47 ; U.S Plane 969 Capt. N.D Munson U.S Combat Film No. 2298 The 78th group flew P-38’s in 1942 while in the States and while training for combat in England. Priorities in North Africa in late 1942 resulted in all our P-38’s and all but fifteen or sixteen pilots being transferred to North Africa. We received P-47s in early Jan of 1943 and flew them for two years when they were replaced by P-51s in early 1945. The 78th was the only group to fly all three of the first-line air force fighter planes. 78th Fighter Group ; Doug Munson ; England ; First-Line Air Force Fighter Planes ; Ground Strafing ; Ground Targets ; Locomotive ; North Africa ; P-38's ; P-47's ; P-51's 997 Lt. J.W Wilkinson U.S Combat Film No. 2293 Jim Wilkins was credited with shooting down 7 and a half German planes before being lost 2 days before D-Day on a strafing run in England. When the steam comes out of the locomotives like that you know you’ve destroyed a lot of the boiler tubes. D-Day ; England ; German Planes ; Jim Wilkinson ; Locomotive ; Strafing Run 1037 Capt. W.W May U.S Combat Film No. 2287 I edited out -uh -uh seemed like quite a 20 or 30 seconds Willy Mays chasing this plane for what seems like long enough to run out of ammunition, but in a few seconds, you will see one of the most spectacular shots of a German plane being shot down as he shoots the left-wing of here in a few moments. 78th Fighter Group ; German Plane ; Willy Mays ; World War II 1125 Lt. Juchheim U.S Combat Film No. 3687 Alex Juchhiem was our second leading ace with 11 air victories. An interesting statics is four of our top seven aces were lost. A total of 11 of the 78th pilots became aces while flying with our group. They had a total of 79 and a half air victories of or 23% of the 338 and ½ air victories for the group. I think the pilot is going to beel out of this one in a moment. 78th Fighter Group ; Ace ; Air Victories ; World War II 1144 Lt. P.H. Hazelett U.S Combat Film No. 3687 78th Fighter Group ; U.S Pilot ; World War II 1514 Maj. Bob Ebee Here I am. You can see I’m a major now, so it's sometime in mid-1944 and I must be out of pipe Tabaco, as the only time I smoke cigarettes is when my supply of mixture 79 was en route from the states. This is the first of my 3 P-47s, named for my daughter Vivian Gaile(ph.). Gaile was 2 months old when I left her and (indecipherable) in California and took a troop train to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, and the Queen Elizabeth troopship to Scotland. This plane was shot down on a mission with another pilot flying it in February of 1944. 1944 ; 50 Caliber Gun ; Barges ; California ; Camp Kilmer ; Cockpit ; Combat ; Crew Chief ; D-Day ; Dive-Bombing Mission ; Dolly Parton ; France ; German Truck ; Ground Fire ; Ground Personnel ; Locomotive ; Major ; Marshaling Yard ; May West ; ME-109 ; New Jersey ; Queen Elizabeth Troopship ; Scotland ; Sgt. John Harris ; Skip Bombing ; Spitfire Pilots ; Strafing Mission ; Supply Train ; Yanks 1800 Quince Brown and The Bristow Connection This is George Krumme again, we’ve come to the end of the commentary by Bob Ebee, but for those of us interested on Quine Brown and the Bristow connection here are some additional comments. Quince was born in 1917, he graduated from Bristow High school and attended Bristow Junior College and Oklahoma A & ; M college briefly, before earning his air-core wings at Kelly Field on April 25th, 1941, 7 months before the beginning of World War II. He severed as a flight instructor at Randolph, Kelly, and Majors airfields in Texas and taught a year at the Enid army flying school. " ; Gott Strafe England" ; ; 78th Fighter Group ; A& ; M College ; Air Cadets ; Air Medal ; Air-Core Wings ; Aircraft ; Anti-Aircraft Fire ; Bristow ; Bristow High School ; Bristow Junior College ; Combat Duty ; Dale Mayberry Flying School ; Distinguished Flying Cross with Four Oak Leaf Clusters ; Duxford Air Base ; Enid, Oklahoma ; Florida ; French Croix de Gurre ; Full Military Honors ; George Krumme ; German Airfield ; Germany ; Kelly Field ; Leading Ace ; London, England ; Machine ; Majors Airfield ; Oak Leaf Clusters ; Oklahoma Aviation and Space Hall of Fame ; Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame ; Prisoner of War List ; Quince Brown ; Quince L. Brown Parkway ; Randolph Airfield ; Republic P-47 Thunderbolt ; S.S Representative ; Silver Star ; Strafing Fighter ; Texas ; Vance Airbase ; War Bond Drive ; World War I ; World War II N 35° 49.731 W 096° 24.321 17 Quince L. Brown - VFW War Memorial - Bristow, OK Quince Lucien Brown Jr | American Air Museum in Britain American Air Museum in Britain Croix de Guerre | French military award | Britannica French Croix de Guerre Oak leaf cluster | Military Wiki | Fandom (wikia.org) Oak Leaf Clusters Air Medal: Eligibility and History - Medals of America - Military Blog Air Medal Distinguished Flying Cross (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia Distinguished Flying Cross Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame (okhistory.org)- OK Military Hall of Fame Oklahoma Fly-Boy - MEDALS & ; DECORATIONS - U.S. Militaria Forum (usmilitariaforum.com) Quince Brown- Medals and Decorations Vance Air Force Base > ; Home (af.mil) Vance Air Force Base-Enid OK Gott Strafe England | The Western Front Association Gott Strafe England-Germany WWI Narrator: George Krumme (GK) Narrator: Bob Ebee (BE) Other Persons: Quince Brown Date of Narration: January 1987 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Riley Wilson Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-0003-V Brown, Quince Abstract: This DVD contains films from the cockpit of Fighter Groups flying during World War II from the years 1942-1944. Among the pilots was Quince Brown, a Bristow native, who was named the leading ace in the 78th fighter group with more than 130 combat missions. Quince remained the leading ace throughout the remainder of the war and after his death. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GK: My name is George Krumme and I was a Bristow boy. Quince Brown1 was a slightly older Bristow boy, who became an ace fighter pilot in World War II before he was shot down and killed over in Germany 3 months after D-Day. When I learned that his nephew, Rusty Brown, had a video showing clips of Quince' ; s fighter group, I thought it appropriate that a shortened video be made from it for those of us who have an interest in the history of World War II with a particular emphasis on Quince' ; s outstanding record. So, here it is! BE: This is Bob Ebee speaking on this January day in 1987 the 16-millimeter film on this videotape was shot in 1943 and 1944 at the Duxford airbase located 10 miles South of Cambridge, England. The 78th fighter group arrived in England in November of 1942 and flew their first combat mission from Duxford on April 13, 1943 (Pause in Narration) This is Col. Armond(ph.) Peterson, the first group commander of the 78th. He served from May 1942 until his loss on a combat mission July 1st, 1943. Lt. Harry Dayhuff was the first 82nd squadron commanding officer who served until August of 1943. This is Col. Jim Stone, the first 83rd squadron CO until promoted to group commander in August 1943. Gene Roberts was first 84 squadron commanding officer later group exec. and still later group commanding officer of the 364th fighter group. Major McBay, the group intelligence officer, and his staff are preparing the briefing room map for a combat mission briefing. The weather officer is advising the cloud formations and winds to be expected in route to the rendezvousing with the bombers and on the way home. (Pause in Narration) Jake Oberhansley(ph.) is advising key details of the mission as he is the group leader of the simulated mission briefing which was staged for the benefit of the photographer. (Pause in Narration) The pilots leaving the briefing room are in a somewhat more jovial mood than would be normal for a real briefing. (Pause in Narration) This is the control tower from where all instructions (Pause in Narration) landings at the Duxford field. Duxford was a grass field which had some advantages and some disadvantages. Only 2 fighter planes could take off together on paved runways we could take off 8 at a time which saved precious fuel circling the field waiting to form up after the takeoff. Note the belly tanks, for extending the range on this mission. The group leader would fly out for 2 and 1/2 minutes and then make a slow wide turn to come back over the field. All 48 planes plus spares would be in formation and on course to the target or rendezvous area by the time the lead plane was back to the field. (Pause in Narration) BE: This shows the group formation for-for climbing out to the combat area where the flights and squadrons would then spread out to combat formation. (Pause in Narration) This is the first of about 15 minutes of selected 78th group combat film. Note that the title gives the pilot' ; s name, the squadron, the date and the target. Note also the English gives the day first and the month second thus 30 dash 7 means July 30th. You note the pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in Narration) This isn' ; t very clear, but those big object in the background are our b-17 bombers. The mission of July 30th, 1943 held the record for first in the 78th combat history. It was the first belly tank mission and extended the P-47 range to permit crossing the border of Germany for the first time. Major Gene Roberts shot down 3 German planes to become the first U.S pilot to get a triple air victory on one mission. Charlie Linden(ph.) shot down his fourth and fifth planes to become the first U.S ace in the European theater. (Pause in Narration) Jack Price had a total of five air victories. We lost our second group commander on this July 30th mission, when Lt. Col. Melvin McNickle was shot down on his first mission and became a prisoner of war. Flak in the lower left. (Pause in Narration) The final first on July 7th -er July 30th, 1943 is shown here when Quine Brown dropped down to the deck on his return from escorting the bombers (Pause in Narration) to become the first us fighter pilot to shoot up a ground target in a European theater. (Pause in Narration) Lt. Col. Gene Roberts CO of the 84th had the third-highest number of air victories for the 78th group with a total of nine. (Pause in Narration) Pete Pompetti was another leader in air victories with six. He was shot down in early 1944 and was a prisoner of war. (Pause in Narration) Good hits. It' ; s too bad the exposure isn' ; t better. Unfortunately, a lot of the combat film I have was not originals and some clarity is always lost in making copies and then more clarity is lost in converting 16 millimeter to video. This is a little better being able to see the clouds, and this is-this is one of the more clear of the series. (Pause in Narration) John Hockery was the fifth leader in air victories with seven. This is another fairly clear exposure compared to many of them. He' ; s getting good hits there' ; s pieces of the German plane flying by. (Pause in Narration) This film was used to convert-confirm victories for the pilot. Quince Brown was the leading ace of the 78th with 13 victories before he was lost on a strafing run. (Pause in Narration) There' ; s are good hits for being at greater than 300-yard range. (Pause in Narration) Again you can see the B-7 bomber in their combat formation in the background. BE: Very good hits for that range. Hell, that German pilot has put his wheels down perhaps to slow down so the American pilot will overrun him. Grant Turley had six air victories before not returning from a combat mission. He' ; s going to get proof positive of a victory as you see the German pilot beel(ph.) out in a moment. (Pause in Narration) There he is. He' ; s not shooting at the pilot, he' ; s- there' ; s a switch to put the camera on only. Ground strafing was very exciting but much more hazardous than aerial combat the higher loss ratio resulted from intense ground fire. Direct hits from ground fire was not too common for fighter planes at high altitudes. (Pause in Narration) Planes lined up in a row like on this last film and on this one resulted in heavy losses for the Germans. The 78th group set the record for the European Theater when they destroyed 135 planes on the ground on their mission of April 16th, 1945. The 78th flew a total of 450 combat missions from April 13th, 1943 to April 25th, 1945. The group destroyed three hundred thirty-eight and 1/2 German planes in the air and three hundred fifty-eight and 1/2 on the ground for a total of six hundred ninety-seven German planes destroyed for a loss of 167 P-47' ; s and P-51' ; s. This is a ratio of four German planes lost for one U.S plane lost. A P-47 cost $104,260 in 1943 and today a modern jet fighter cost several million dollars in comparison. The 78th group flew P-38' ; s in 1942 while in the States and while training for combat in England. Priorities in North Africa in late 1942 resulted in all our P-38' ; s and all but fifteen or sixteen pilots being transferred to North Africa. We received P-47' ; s in early Jan of 1943 and flew them for two years when they were replaced by P-51' ; s in early 1945. The 78th was the only group to fly all three of the first-line air force fighter planes. One of the most spectacular ground strafing explosion is on this series of Doug Munson. His is a very unusual combat film as it includes air to air, a larger number of planes being shot on the ground plus -uh shooting up a locomotive and other ground targets. (Pause in Narration) Isn' ; t that spectacular! Look at those pieces flying, he has to fly through. Doesn' ; t show up yet but he has a German plane trying to land before getting shot down. There it' ; s coming into view. I don' ; t recall whether Doug caused that plane to crash, or whether it landed before he was out of control. Jim Wilkins was credited with shooting down 7 and 1/2 German planes before being lost 2 days before D-Day on a strafing run in England. When the steam comes out of the locomotives like that you know you' ; ve destroyed a lot of the boiler tubes. (Pause in Narration) I edited out -uh -uh seemed like quite a 20 or 30 seconds Willy Mays chasing this plane for what seems like long enough to run out of ammunition, but in a few seconds, you will see one of the most spectacular shots of a German plane being shot down as he shoots the left-wing of here in a few moments. (Pause in Narration) There it goes. Alex Juchhiem was our second leading ace with 11 air victories. An interesting statics is four of our top seven aces were lost. A total of 11 of the 78th pilots became aces while flying with our group. They had a total of 79 and 1/2 air victories of or 23% of the 338 and ½ air victories for the group. I think the pilot is going to beel out of this one in a moment. There he comes. I selected these 23 mission combat films for not only being some of the most spectacular examples but also because the original exposure was far better than normal. A lot of clarity is lost in converting this 43-year-old film to video and much of the group combat film was far from being a good exposure when taken. (Pause in Narration) BE: Here I am. You can see I' ; m a major now, so it' ; s sometime in mid-1944 and I must be out of pipe Tabaco, as the only time I smoke cigarettes is when my supply of mixture 79 was en route from the States. This is the first of my 3 P-47' ; s, named for my daughter Vivian Gaile(ph.). Gaile was 2 months old when I left her and [indecipherable] in California and took a troop train to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, and the Queen Elizabeth troopship to Scotland. This plane was shot down on a mission with another pilot flying it in February of 1944. I was hit by ground fire 3 times while flying and had to leave the second V. Gaile on an emergency field in France 2 weeks after D-Day with 2 or 3 cylinder heads shot off and leaking oil quite rapidly. The cockpit of the P-47 was very roomy, the spitfire pilots claimed that to take evasive action in combat, the yanks just loosened their seatbelts and ran around the cockpit. I flew spitfires for a month and the cockpit were very cramped by comparison The vest I am wearing is for floatation emergencies if you found yourself in the water for whatever reason. It was dubbed a May West for reasons which were more obvious when it was inflated, today I suspect it might be called a Dolly Parton. This is Bill Vicory(ph.), assistant crew chief of the V. Gaile, and the other man is Harold Zonn(ph.), the radio maintenance man for my flight. Note the 50 caliber gun sticking out the leading edge of the wing. And this is Sgt. John Harris crew chief for all three of the V. Gailes. The [indecipherable] man is servicing the four 50 caliber in each wing, this was standard procedure each time the gun was fired. Ground personnel were highly competent and were dedicated to keeping their planes in perfect condition with no regard to long hours often required to get a plane to combat readiness. BE: I took this picture of a bridge before releasing two 5oo pound bombs on this skip bombing-bombing mission. I had spotted two locomotives on my approach and got the first shots at them, the first one coming up here. There' ; s normal procedure for everyone in the flight to follow in trail on these strafing missions like this. (Pause in Narration) I got hit in the windshield by ground fire while strafing this marshaling yard, the bulletproof glass in front of my face deflected the bullet out the top of the canopy. This is strafing -uh supply train. Another train. (Pause in Narration) There' ; s a locomotive, -uh that is the target on this -uh run. More supply trains. (Pause in Narration) Still more supply trains. We' ; d usually work our way back along the railroad track when returning on the deck from a mission. There' ; s a German truck trying to hide in this row of trees. You can see him moving right there. He didn' ; t make it, he had something burning, made a pretty good fire. Barges also carried supplies, I would think it would take a lot of 50 caliber bullets to do too much damage to them. This is an ME 109 -uh on the ground -uh, not at an airfield. He probably had to make an emergency landing. This supply train is burning pretty good. Another German vehicle. Another truck trying to hide in the trees. Note the broad pattern of the 850 caliber guns. This trucks on fire. Another truck. We hit something explosive on this dive-bombing mission. Less than half of my combat film turned out good enough to transfer to video because of bad underexposure. (Pause in Narration) GK: This is George Krumme again, we' ; ve come to the end of the commentary by Bob Ebee, but for those of us interested on Quine Brown and the Bristow connection here are some additional comments. Quince was born in 1917, he graduated from Bristow High school and attended Bristow Junior College and Oklahoma A & ; M college briefly, before earning his air-core wings at Kelly Field on April 25th, 1941, 7 months before the beginning of World War II. He severed as a flight instructor at Randolph, Kelly, and Majors airfields in Texas and taught a year at the Enid army flying school. He then applied for operations and after advanced training at Dale Mayberry field in Florida in April of 1943 he joined the 78th fighter group at the Duxford airbase, south of London England. The plane the group used was a republic P-47 thunderbolt, a heavy fighter with unusual four-bladed propellers. The P-47 were excellent strafing fighters because they could take considerable punishment and still return home. The word strafe was coined by the Germans from their world war I slogan " ; Gott strafe England!" ; , that is God punish England. And the Thunderbolt could certainly punish, strafing with eight machine guns at up to 450 miles per hour at an altitude at times less than 100 feet above the ground. But piloting a fighter plane was dangerous, particularly while strafing. The 78th fighter group with a normal flying compliment of 36-48 planes lost 167 of its aircraft during two years of action and 93 of its pilots were killed. In this scene, you can see a pilot pull his plane up as he suddenly saw an electric line in his path. Watch carefully as he approaches the hanger and you may be able to see the wires. Quince' ; s crew chief told Rusty Brown that occasionally planes would come back with wire and tree branches stuck to the wing, on one occasion Quince even returned with bent propeller tips. At 27 Quince was one of the older pilots, but was renowned for his keen eyesight and his flying skills. He was officially credited with 12 and 1/3 air to air victories and with two planes destroyed on the ground. After a year of service in mid-1944, Quince came back to the States for a couple of months and led war bond drives across the nation. He returned to combat duty in August. Less than a month later on September 6th, 1944 while strafing a German airfield, Quince' ; s plane was struck by anti-aircraft fire. Unable to continue he parachuted and was seen to land safely, gather his parachute, and disappear into the woods. It was presumed that his name would soon appear on the prisoner of war list, but after several fruitless months, it was determined that he had apparently been turned over to civilians only to be executed by the local S.S representative, who, after the war was identified and tried for murder. Quince flew more than 130 combat missions and was awarded the Silver Star, the Distinguished Flying Cross with four Oak Leaf Clusters, the Air Medal with four Oak Leaf Clusters, and the French Croix de Guerre. Quince has been inducted into the Oklahoma Aviation and Space Hall of Fame and into the Oklahoma Military Hall of Fame. Moreover, the Quince L. Brown Parkway serves as the entry into the Vance Airbase in Enid, where Quince instructed air cadets for a year. Even though the war continued for eight months after he was killed, Quince remained the leading ace of his fighter group. When the war ended, Quince' ; s remains were eventually transferred to Bristow where he was buried with full military honors in the family burial plots. GK: I hope you' ; ve enjoyed this brief look backward in time. video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0020-V_Brown_Quince.xml OHP-0020-V_Brown_Quince.xml
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5.4 October 20th, 2020 OHP-2020-07 Bob Webb OHP-2020-07 0:00-58:5 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Bob Webb Carolyn Webb Debbie Blansett MP3 OHP-2020-07 Webb, Bob.mp3 1:|59(5)|89(8)|109(5)|123(10)|160(6)|174(9)|204(13)|231(3)|248(2)|274(12)|285(4)|303(15)|339(2)|352(3)|379(6)|395(3)|437(17)|467(3)|486(4)|526(14)|542(14)|561(13)|608(12)|635(1)|660(10)|692(2)|708(2)|741(13)|763(15)|804(2)|835(3)|852(14)|888(13)|922(2)|947(9)|976(15)|990(15)|1007(14)|1032(5)|1058(12)|1099(4)|1123(10)|1162(6)|1183(5)|1198(4)|1240(2)|1289(12)|1330(14)|1361(11)|1395(11)|1416(7)|1448(7)|1483(7)|1532(8)|1563(11)|1594(11)|1624(11)|1650(9) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-07 Webb, Bob.mp3 Other audio 254 Family History and Early Childhood Annetta Webb ; Big Deep Fork ; Callie Hill ; Charley S. Webb Sr ; Charley Shelby Webb Junior ; County Commissioner ; Creek County ; Debbie Charles Webb ; District Two ; Farm ; Farmer ; Jimmy Weaver ; Mary Charles Hill Webb ; Newby ; Robert Earl Webb ; Tractor Childhood ; Early Childhood ; Family History ; Farming https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363927/mary-c.-webb Mary C. Webb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363930/charley-shelby-webb Charley Shelby Webb Jr. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363936/annetta-webb Annetta James Webb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363935/charley-shelby-webb Charley Shelby Webb Sr. 391 Bob's Grocery and Carolyn Masters BW: But then my mother— when the Garment Factory opened, well she went to work there and she worked there— oh gosh until I bought the store, and then she went to work with me in my grocery store after I was— well on my twenty-first birthday. GS: What was the name of that store, Bob? BW: Bob’s Grocery. We couldn’t call it Webb’s grocery because Johnny (ph) and Frank Webb had a month ahead of us had bought the store across the street— GS: (Laughter) BW: —and they called it Webb’s, so we couldn’t call it Webb’s. (Chuckling) GS: No. BW: So we went to Bob’s Grocery and that’s what it was until I sold it. GS: Okay. Tell me about Carolyn, your wife. When did you all get married? BW: Oh lord. GS: Well first, what’s Carolyn’s whole name? BW: Carolyn G. Masters Webb. Bob's Grocery ; Carolyn G. Masters Webb ; Garment Factory Bob's Grocery ; Buisness ; Carolyn Webb ; Children ; Garment Factory ; Marriage 762 Childhood and The Farm GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you as a child. BW: Well, let’s see. I was born on the ole Burt Miller Farm (ph) they called it. Every farm had a name, back in those days. And it was about a mile off of Highway 48, which was a gravel road then. And about three miles southwest of Newby. Anyway, I was born in the farmhouse. My mother started having the pains, and I had an aunt and uncle there Jesse and Lucille Propst . Lucille was my dad’s sister. Anyway, dad jumped in the ole car to go get Doc King or Doc Coppedge— one of ‘em. And anyway, I came before the doctor got there and my Uncle Jesse, was— he’s the one that delivered me. GS: Ah. BW: And he was a farmer and a barber. (Laughter) BW: So, anyway— GS: Was he a dentist also, I think back then they were dentist too— BW: Well, he may have. But my Uncle Jesse delivered me and when the doctor got there he said, “Jesse, you done a great job.” said, “That’s gonna be a good looking Naval.” (Laughter) BW: Anyway, Uncle Jesse and I— I don’t know whether it was that reason, or not because he delivered me. He was one of the closest uncles I had. He treated me better than he did his own kids. (chuckling) GS: Now, was it your Uncle Jesse or was it a different uncle that was in law enforcement with the— and caught the outlaws and you didn’t believe him— BW: No, that was— Bristow News Record Newspaper ; Burt Miller Farm ; Corn ; Cotton ; Doc Coppedge ; Doc King ; Georgia ; Isaac Webb ; New Mexico ; Oklahoma ; Peanuts ; Texas ; US Marshal ; Wild Horse Prairie Childhood ; Family ; Farm ; Memories https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22432611/ike-king-webb Ike King Webb 981 School Days BW: So— but anyway, I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. Got to start early when I was like barely five. I visited school quite a bit, ‘cause we lived two and a half miles from the school and there was no kids to play with. And I would follow my older brother to school and J.L. Darnell was the County Superintendent at the time. My dad was raised up with him and Robert Darnell and his other brother. They run around together when they were kids. Anyway, J.L. was there to visit one day and he asked Geneva Scott which was my first— was the teacher, and he said, “What’s Bob doing here he’s not old enough. She said, “Well he comes to visit so we have kids to play with.” J.L. said, “Put him in school.” So I got to start school early and I graduated out of high school. I was about a year to two years younger than my classmates my senior year. GS: And did that bother you in anyway? BW: It really did ‘cause I was small anyway and it didn’t bother me so much at Newby school, ‘cause it wasn’t all that many kids. But coming from Newby School there was just two of us graduating out of the eighth grade that year, me and Dwayne Tallent (ph). And came to Bristow school where there was twelve, fifteen hundred kids at the time probably and I was— everybody thought I was probably in the seventh grade instead of the ninth grade, ‘cause I was so small. But anyway, I enjoyed it after a year or two. Senior year I really enjoyed it— GS: Once you got your growth spurt? (Chuckling) County Superintendent ; Dwayne Tallent ; Elizabeth Ferguson ; Geneva Scott ; J.L Darnell Bristow High School ; School https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77214387/jesse-lawrence-darnell J.L Darnell https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184764/robert-alan-darnell Robert Alan Darnell https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26863839/geneva-scott Geneva Scott 1238 Work Before Bob's Grocery GS: Let me interrupt you— BW: Sure. GS: —just a minute. Where was the M& ; P located then? BW: It was on Main Street just north of the Express Personnel. GS: Okay. BW: Yeah I think it was one door— GS: On the west side of the street? BW: On the west side of the street. GS: I’ll be. BW: And Grady Arthurs had one right next door— a grocery store. GS: Oh. BW: We didn’t have any big grocery stores then and Safeway was up at, what Ninth and Main then. Where the doctor’s clinics at now. GS: Oh. Aaron Willeford ; Business School ; Cadillac dealer ; Colorado ; Dick Cahill ; Express Personnel ; Grady Arthurs ; Lonnie Mcgall ; M& ; P Grocery ; Oklahoma Natural ; Oklahoma Natural Building ; Safeway ; Tulsa Stationery Business ; Work https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25137599/henry-grady-arthurs Henry Grady Arthurs https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92693227/aaron-isaac-willeford Aaron Isaac Willeford 1918 Bob's Grocery and Hale-Halsell GS: What year was that that you bought that store? BW: Well let’s see, that had to be ’62. GS: ’62. BW: ’62. And I just turned— GS: What was— BW: —twenty-one on my— on April 1st and got my store on April 2nd. GS: Was there a store there before you bought it? BW: Yeah, Aaron Willeford owned the store. GS: Aaron Willeford owned the store. BW: Yeah, used to be Siner Grocery. Siner’s built the building and they sold it to Aaron and moved out in western Oklahoma some place. But Aaron had it for a few years and like I said, when he got elected County Commissioner, he worked for Jim Weaver with my dad too. GS: Okay, yeah. BW: And anyway, it was kind of a natural thing and I bought it. I was there for fifteen years. I more than doubled the size of the building. I had three houses on the lots behind it. It was a complete block along the lots— or the block was. And I sold the houses off and built on the store and I made it like almost three times bigger than what it was. Put all new equipment in it and the M& ; P had sold out after I left to Hale-Halsell. It was a warehouse in Tulsa, it’s why they called it Super-H— GS: Oh. Affiliated Foods ; Audrey Gillum ; David Leffner ; I-40 ; Levan Kelly ; Okemah ; Safeway ; Siner Grocery ; Super-H Store ; Tracy Kelly Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Jobs ; Loans https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22326275/audrey-beatrice-gillum Audrey Beatrice Gillum https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141534677/forest-levan-kelly Forest Levan Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96953333/oliver-tracy-kelly Oliver Tracy Kelly 2575 Grocery Store Management and Real Estate BW: And built a new store. Well, Bill Farha owned the building in Bristow and he also owned the one in Okemah, GS: Okay. BW: He built ‘em for Safeway. GS: I did not know that. BW: And of course Bill traded with me at the store. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And we got together and he and I were gonna put that store in in Okemah. Beautiful building, big parking lot, and right in the middle of town. And we’d have probably put Safeway out of business earlier down there if we’d— GS: Rival. Arkansas ; Bill Farha ; Bixby ; Doodle's Steakhouse ; Escotts ; Kansas ; Larry Reasor ; Real Estate ; Reasor's ; Sysco Food Service ; The Industrial Board Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Real Estate ; Reasors ; Retirement ; Work https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25184902/william-ellis-farha William Ellis Farha https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55143314/larry-gene-reasor Larry Gene Reasor 3233 Bristow Then and Now GS: Any significant changes you’ve seen in Bristow since you are on the Industrial Board or even like as a child that you know, you think were big improvements to Bristow? BW: Well you know— GS: Or had a big impact to Bristow? BW: Yeah. I kinda beat around the bush about this, but you know a kid from the farm ; we came to town on Saturday. Main Street was just full ; you couldn’t find a parking place. And usually the farmers when they came in, they came in for the day. GS: Yes. BW: And you know, we’d go to the Walmur Theatre and get in there for a dime or so. Eat a hamburger at Llyon’s Café, and then dad would do his visiting up and down Main Street making (indecipherable) sale, or whatever. And mom would usually go to the Princess Theatre, that was where the adults went you know. GS: Okay, that’s why I never went to the Princess I guess much. BW: It was— I didn’t go very often until I married her— married Carolyn. (Chuckling) GS: Uh-huh. BW: But anyway, and the Main Street was just so busy. But you know, I’m on a couple other boards too and when we’re having general meetings or— we’ve had a couple of meetings I’d hold ‘em here in Bristow. And I had the Conservation District and we— and a whole area Conservation Districts, which takes most of northeastern Oklahoma. And it was my turn to hold it here, I had it down at the Church of God where we go to church and we was gonna really impress ‘em. So we ordered T-Bone steaks, we had like about a hundred people there. Anna Louise Foster ; Area of Conservation Districts ; Arthur Foster ; Charlie Webb Senior ; Church of God ; Community State Bank ; Harrison Webb ; Llyon's Cafe ; Main Street ; Princess Theatre ; School Board ; Tall Foster ; Walmur Theatre Bristow ; Buisnesses ; Changes ; Main Street ; Town 3532 The Webb Children GS: Yeah. Okay, do your children still live around here? BW: No. Robert JR, he lives in Phoenix. He’s been there for— oh gosh, twenty-five years. GS: How old would Rob be now? BW: He’ll be about sixty-one now. GS: Okay. BW: He graduated— all three kids graduated OSU. He went to work for General Foods and they moved him to southern California for about four or five years and then to Phoenix. And they was getting ready to move him again and he said, “I’m not moving again.” So— GS: (Laughter) BW: —he resigned and went to Arizona State and got his masters and as soon as he walked out he went straight to Intel and now he does all the contracts for Intel. GS: Good for him. BW: This is worldwide (Chuckling). GS: Good for him. Arizona State ; Federal Reserve Bank ; General Foods ; Oklahoma State University ; Robert Webb Jr Children ; Graduation ; Grandchildren ; Jobs ; School : In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area. Interviewer: Bob Webb (BW) Interviewee: Georgia Smith (GS) Other Persons: None Date of Interview: October 20th, 2020 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. GS: Okay. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is October 20th, 2020 and I' ; m sitting here with Bob Webb at his home, east of Bristow-- who is going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. His wife, Carolyn may be in and out of the room. Now, give me your full name Bob. BW: Robert Earl Webb. GS: And where were you born, Bob? BW: I was born south of Bristow in the Newby area. I was born about two and a half miles south of Newby, in the country. GS: Okay, and your date of birth? BW: April 2nd, 1939. GS: Almost an April Fools baby. BW: That' ; s right. (Laughter) GS: What were your parents' ; names? Your mother-- We' ; ll start with your mother' ; s maiden name. BW: Mary Charles Hill Webb and my dad, Charles or Charley Shelby Webb Junior. GS: Do you know when they were married? BW: Probably about 1933 or 4. GS: Okay, do you know where they were married? BW: In Bristow. GS: Okay, do you-- were they born in Bristow or did they come here? BW: No, they were both born in the Bristow area. GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have? BW: In my mother' ; s family there was like eighteen I believe. There were two wives, the first wife past away and then Grandpa Hill married my grandmother Callie Hill (ph) and then they had like five children. So, anyway there was like seventeen or eighteen kids in her side of the family. On my dad' ; s side, Charley S. Webb Sr. and my grandmother Annetta Webb sorry I-- James Webb and they were married here in Bristow also. GS: Okay, what about siblings? Do you have brothers or sisters? BW: Got one brother that' ; s Gene (ph) he' ; s about five years older. Then I got a sister, Debbie-- Debbie Charles Webb (ph) and she' ; s about fifteen years younger than me. GS: Wow, wow. BW: Yeah. GS: Okay. What did your father do for a living? BW: He was a farmer. That' ; s-- he always farmed out around the Newby area. That' ; s where he went to grade school-- where me and my brother went to grade school there too. But he was a farmer and he was a good farmer. He farmed everything from just the edge of Newby down to the banks of Big Deep Fork. GS: Wow, he had a big farm. BW: He-- well a lot of leased land, rented land. And cotton, corn, and peanuts was our main crops. GS: What did your mother do? BW: My mother was a housewife and she worked on the farm just like me and my brother and dad. She went to the fields with us and in fact my dad, back in about-- well it was when Jimmy Weaver become County Commissioner. He helped Jim get elected, and he went to work for Jim Weaver as a timekeeper for the Creek County District Two. And my mother and my older brother, we done the farming from then and of course dad would-- when he came in at the evenings or night, he would take over and start plowing the corn or whatever. GS: Wow. BW: With the lights on the tractor. GS: Wow. BW: But then my mother-- when the Garment Factory opened, well she went to work there and she worked there-- oh gosh until I bought the store, and then she went to work with me in my grocery store after I was-- well on my twenty-first birthday. GS: What was the name of that store, Bob? BW: Bob' ; s Grocery. We couldn' ; t call it Webb' ; s grocery because Johnny (ph) and Frank Webb had a month ahead of us had bought the store across the street-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --and they called it Webb' ; s, so we couldn' ; t call it Webb' ; s. (Chuckling) GS: No. BW: So we went to Bob' ; s Grocery and that' ; s what it was until I sold it. GS: Okay. Tell me about Carolyn, your wife. When did you all get married? BW: Oh lord. GS: Well first, what' ; s Carolyn' ; s whole name? BW: Carolyn G. Masters Webb. GS: Okay. And what was the date of your marriage? BW: It was on Valentine' ; s Day in 1958 or 9. GS: (Chuckling) Okay, I have to insert this right here, because I know-- I know it' ; s such-- it' ; s your favorite thing to discuss, but it was wonderful when Carolyn told me. You and your wife were married on Valentine' ; s Day. BW: Yes. GS: And she gave you a card one year, and tell me about that card. BW: Well, she always had this anniversary card and oh it' ; s a nice, pretty, big card. Anyway, a few years ago I opened it up and looked at it and I just happened to turn it over and I saw the price on it. It was a Hallmark card ; it was like thirty-five cents. And I said, " ; Where in the world did you get a Hallmark card this cheap?" ; You know, they' ; re like two-dollars or so. GS: Yeah. BW: And she said, " ; I' ; ve been giving you the same card for fifty-some years!" ; I think it was. (Laughter) GS: That story' ; s just too good not to pass-- BW: Yeah. GS: --shows clearly the difference between men and women, doesn' ; t it? BW: Yeah. We do notice price ; it just takes us years to get to it. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s right. How many children did you and Carolyn have? BW: Got three. Got Robert Junior, and then Sue Ann, and Stacy. GS: Okay. Now, tell me a little bit about what life was like for you as a child. BW: Well, let' ; s see. I was born on the ole Burt Miller Farm (ph) they called it. Every farm had a name, back in those days. And it was about a mile off of Highway 48, which was a gravel road then. And about three miles southwest of Newby. Anyway, I was born in the farmhouse. My mother started having the pains, and I had an aunt and uncle there Jesse and Lucille Propst. Lucille was my dad' ; s sister. Anyway, dad jumped in the ole car to go get Doc King or Doc Coppedge-- one of ' ; em. And anyway, I came before the doctor got there and my Uncle Jesse, was-- he' ; s the one that delivered me. GS: Ah. BW: And he was a farmer and a barber. (Laughter) BW: So, anyway-- GS: Was he a dentist also, I think back then they were dentist too-- BW: Well, he may have. But my Uncle Jesse delivered me and when the doctor got there he said, " ; Jesse, you done a great job." ; said, " ; That' ; s gonna be a good looking Naval." ; (Laughter) BW: Anyway, Uncle Jesse and I-- I don' ; t know whether it was that reason, or not because he delivered me. He was one of the closest uncles I had. He treated me better than he did his own kids. (chuckling) GS: Now, was it your Uncle Jesse or was it a different uncle that was in law enforcement with the-- and caught the outlaws and you didn' ; t believe him-- BW: No, that was-- GS: Can you tell me that story? BW: Yeah, that was my great uncle, Isaac Webb. He was my grandad' ; s older brother ; he was like two years older than my grandad. But working in the fields, he lived with us off and on for several years out on the farm and of course helped us on the farm. And he was always telling me stories and all this and he was--he was-- I was a little guy, and he was a small guy too. But, he was telling me these stories about when he was a US Marshal. And about chasing horse thieves and stuff like that. And he told me this story about getting in a gun fight out north of Bristow out around Wild Horse Prairie. And he got shot, and he showed me where he got shot. It was on his arms and-- GS: Wow. BW: --one on his hand. And of course, you know I was seven or eight years old and I thought he was just kinda windy. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, later on in-- when I got into Bristow schools, in the ninth grade I went to work for Isle Cook (ph) down at the Bristow News Record Newspaper and in my spare time I' ; d go up to the big books that held all of their old papers. And I' ; d go on through ' ; em, they started like 1900 or something like that or 1890 something. But anyway, I was going through ' ; em and anytime I had spare time I' ; d move up to another book and I opened it up-- one of ' ; em and there on the front page-- on the bottom of the front page-- Deputy US Marshal Isaac Webb captures horse thieves at Wild Horse Prairie. (Laughter) GS: The story you had heard as a child. BW: The old man was telling me the truth. GS: (Laughter) BW: Of course he didn' ; t-- that' ; s the only story I can remember ' ; cause I know it was true, it was in the paper. (Chuckling) GS: That' ; s right, that' ; s right. Well tell me some more about your-- your upbringing. BW: Well, of course on the farm and everything we had cows and hogs and all that. But after World War II, you know they put allotments on peanuts and cotton. And that was a big thing for us. In fact, we thrashed all the peanuts for everybody five miles south of Bristow all the way to the county line. We thrashed all the farmer' ; s peanuts along with ours. But anyway, after the war there wasn' ; t any demand for cotton, ' ; cause you know the soldiers were coming home. They didn' ; t make uniforms like they did. So to protect the big farmers-- you know, southern, western Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, New Mexico where the big cotton farmers at, they protected them. But we was smarter than every little ole ten, twenty, maybe a thirty-acre field, but they' ; d cut our allotments down maybe a twenty-acre field would get a three or four acre allotment. But it wasn' ; t worthwhile to plant ' ; em, and the price of course dropped down. Just put us out of the business, so-- and peanuts and cotton. GS: So in your opinion-- BW: Same way. GS: --was that the demise of peanuts in the Bristow area? BW: Oh yeah. Yeah, the allotments. And you know, it' ; s understandable but we just went into planting all these fields more in corn. And we got more into cows and dad got up to about four hundred and some acres, and we' ; d run a hundred to a hundred-fifty head of cows. And we raised our own corn for feed and we' ; d mix it with other things. In fact, we used to use-- mix it with peanut hay and we made our own cow feed. We didn' ; t have-- there was no such thing as cattle cubes back then. GS: Oh really? BW: So we' ; d made our own feed and started fighting the Bermuda grass or sodding Bermuda grass. We had fought it when we was raising crops and we sodded everything down in Bermuda grass-- in Bermuda grass for a pasture for our cows. So, and that' ; s the way it lays right now, it' ; s all in Bermuda Grass. (Chuckling) GS: All in Bermuda, well very good. BW: But anyway, that' ; s what was going on and of course I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. GS: Let me ask you this question real quick. BW: Mm-hmm. GS: Was any of that-- is any of that land still in the family? BW: No-- GS: Okay. BW: No, it' ; s not. I had to-- my dad lived until he was ninety-three and he spent quite a few years in the nursing home. GS: Ah. BW: I sold it off a piece at a time as needed. GS: Yeah. BW: And sold the last of it about twelve years ago. GS: Okay. BW: So-- but anyway, I went to Newby school through the eighth grade. Got to start early when I was like barely five. I visited school quite a bit, ' ; cause we lived two and a half miles from the school and there was no kids to play with. And I would follow my older brother to school and J.L. Darnell was the County Superintendent at the time. My dad was raised up with him and Robert Darnell and his other brother. They run around together when they were kids. Anyway, J.L. was there to visit one day and he asked Geneva Scott which was my first-- was the teacher, and he said, " ; What' ; s Bob doing here he' ; s not old enough. She said, " ; Well he comes to visit so we have kids to play with." ; J.L. said, " ; Put him in school." ; So I got to start school early and I graduated out of high school. I was about a year to two years younger than my classmates my senior year. GS: And did that bother you in anyway? BW: It really did ' ; cause I was small anyway and it didn' ; t bother me so much at Newby school, ' ; cause it wasn' ; t all that many kids. But coming from Newby School there was just two of us graduating out of the eighth grade that year, me and Dwayne Tallent (ph). And came to Bristow school where there was twelve, fifteen hundred kids at the time probably and I was-- everybody thought I was probably in the seventh grade instead of the ninth grade, ' ; cause I was so small. But anyway, I enjoyed it after a year or two. Senior year I really enjoyed it-- GS: Once you got your growth spurt? (Chuckling) BW: My senior year I came back to school after the summer and I hadn' ; t seen most of these kids since they let out of school in May. And this one girl that came up to me first hour of class and stuck out her hand and said, " ; My name is Elizabeth Ferguson (ph), welcome to Bristow High School." ; And I said, " ; Elizabeth, I' ; ve been in school with you for this makes the third year." ; (Laughter) BW: But I had changed so much in that period of time I had actually got taller. (Chuckling) BW: But it embarrassed her and every time I' ; d see her from then on we' ; d have class reunions, I' ; d remind her of that. (Laughter) GS: " ; Hi, I' ; m Bob Webb." ; (Chuckling). BW: Yeah, yeah. But you know, I graduated out of high school. GS: What year was that? BW: ' ; 56. GS: ' ; 56. BW: Carolyn graduated in ' ; 57. I got it quite well, I knew of her for years. She was a cute little blonde and anyway, I liked her but didn' ; t think I' ; d ever get a go with her (chuckling). But Mrs. Cash (ph), she used to be a school teacher. In fact, she taught school at Newby before I even started school out there, but she knew the family. And her daughter and Carolyn was good friends. And they were out driving around one Sunday and they just happened to be driving out at Newby and she mentioned Carolyn-- " ; You ought to look up Bobby Webb" ; , that' ; s what she called me. And I said-- Carolyn was real small and of course what she remembered, I was small too. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And Carolyn looked me up, and that' ; s how we got together. GS: Ah, that' ; s a nice story. (Laughter) GS: Alright, so after you graduated, what-- what did you do? BW: Well, of course I always had a job when I was in high school. I worked at the M& ; P after school and after I graduated, I went-- GS: Let me interrupt you-- BW: Sure. GS: --just a minute. Where was the M& ; P located then? BW: It was on Main Street just north of the Express Personnel. GS: Okay. BW: Yeah I think it was one door-- GS: On the west side of the street? BW: On the west side of the street. GS: I' ; ll be. BW: And Grady Arthurs had one right next door-- a grocery store. GS: Oh. BW: We didn' ; t have any big grocery stores then and Safeway was up at, what Ninth and Main then. Where the doctor' ; s clinics at now. GS: Oh. BW: On the west side of the street. And I even worked at the Safeway. They were remodeling one weekend, they had to move everything out of the store and they took it next door to an empty building they had leased. And I helped them empty that store. GS: Well. BW: I worked like two days. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, I went to work for Lonnie Mcgall (ph) he was the manager there and-- GS: At M& ; P? BW: At the M& ; P. But Carolyn and I got married, let' ; s see the second year after I graduated. She had went to business school in Tulsa and graduated and she got a job at Oklahoma Natural downtown in an office. And I had went to Colorado and spent the summer up there working for a Cadillac dealer. GS: Was that downtown Tulsa where ONG was? BW: It was downtown, yeah. Yeah, it was Oklahoma Natural Building, they called it. It' ; s-- GS: Okay. BW: --an office building now of some other type. But anyway, she worked there and when we did get married in-- God ' ; 58, ' ; 59 (Laughter). Anyway, I had a job just about a block away from there. I worked for an office supply house and we lived in Tulsa one year and I got-- she had to quit her job because Oklahoma Natural wouldn' ; t let a pregnant lady work-- GS: Oh my word. BW: --after three months in the bottom three floors. They didn' ; t let pregnant women be seen by customers. Anyway she was on the first floor. (Laughter) BW: But she got laid off, or had to quit. And a week later I got laid off. GS: Oh my word. BW: And that' ; s how we wound up in Bristow. And I got laid off that Friday and I had to go home to our apartment and tell her that neither one of us has got a job. Anyway, I called Lonnie Mcgall (ph)-- still the manager at the M& ; P and they had moved where Williams is at now, except it was a different building. GS: On East Seventh. BW: Yeah. Anyway I called him up and asked if he had any openings. He asked me, " ; Can you be here Monday morning?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: I said, " ; I can be there." ; (Laughter) BW: So I-- the place I worked gave me a two weeks' ; notice-- GS: Where was that, Bob? I don' ; t think we mentioned that. BW: It was Tulsa Stationery-- was the name of it. GS: Okay. BW: But they sold office furniture and all that. And I called the store manager and I told ' ; em-- I said, " ; I don' ; t need your two weeks' ; notice, I' ; ve got a job." ; (Laughter) BW: So we loaded up and moved back to Bristow that weekend. Of course all we had was the clothes and a television' ; s all we had. GS: Yeah. BW: (Chuckling) Everything was furnished with the apartment. And we called and got a place, Dick Cahill, he was an ole druggist here in town and he owned a lot of rental houses and we moved in a duplex on Sunday afternoon. An old furnished duplex, and it was not the best of situations. GS: (Laughter) BW: But it was one block from the M& ; P. GS: Well that was helpful. BW: So got in there and I worked at the M& ; P for five years. I was assistant manager when I resigned and bought my own grocery store. Aaron Willeford had a store on South Chestnut and anyway, he got elected as County Commissioner, so he decided he better sell it. So I made a deal with him and I bought it. It was like a fifty by fifty square building-- concrete block building and got in it, and-- GS: What year was that that you bought that store? BW: Well let' ; s see, that had to be ' ; 62. GS: ' ; 62. BW: ' ; 62. And I just turned-- GS: What was-- BW: --twenty-one on my-- on April 1st and got my store on April 2nd. GS: Was there a store there before you bought it? BW: Yeah, Aaron Willeford owned the store. GS: Aaron Willeford owned the store. BW: Yeah, used to be Siner Grocery. Siner' ; s built the building and they sold it to Aaron and moved out in western Oklahoma some place. But Aaron had it for a few years and like I said, when he got elected County Commissioner, he worked for Jim Weaver with my dad too. GS: Okay, yeah. BW: And anyway, it was kind of a natural thing and I bought it. I was there for fifteen years. I more than doubled the size of the building. I had three houses on the lots behind it. It was a complete block along the lots-- or the block was. And I sold the houses off and built on the store and I made it like almost three times bigger than what it was. Put all new equipment in it and the M& ; P had sold out after I left to Hale-Halsell. It was a warehouse in Tulsa, it' ; s why they called it Super-H-- GS: Oh. BW: --back then. And good company, in fact I bought groceries all from ' ; em but I switched to Affiliated Foods. But they were number one in volume, I was number two in volume, and Safeway was a lagging number three. GS: Wow. BW: And of course we had a lot of other stores around too, but-- GS: Those were the three main stores. BW: That was the three main stores then. And I was on the edge of town and I had to draw the crowd from all over town. Your mother and dad traded with me. (Laughter) GS: See I don' ; t-- BW: Bless their hearts. GS: --even remember the Safeway before it was at Seventh and Main. BW: Yeah. GS: I thought when it was at Seventh and Main that' ; s when it first came in. BW: Yeah. GS: Because my folks always shopped with you and-- BW: Yeah. GS: I guess I just-- BW: Well you was young and you didn' ; t pay any attention. GS: I didn' ; t (Laughter). BW: You didn' ; t pay any attention to where your candy bars came from. (Laughter) GS: That' ; s right. BW: Anyway I was there for fifteen years and the Super-H store, one Friday night about midnight the police call me and said, " ; The Super- H Store is on fire." ; GS: Oh no. BW: And said, " ; Yours is the newest one in town." ; Said, " ; You better go out and stay with it, somebody might be burning stores." ; GS: Oh. BW: So I went out and stayed ' ; til, oh I don' ; t know one or two o' ; clock in the morning. And anyway Saturday morning my door bell ring about five o' ; clock. And I got up and answered the door. GS: Five o' ; clock. BW: And it was Hale-Halsell, a vice president and their store manager here in Bristow and, " ; What are you all doing out here?" ; he said, " ; Would you sell your store?" ; GS: Wow. BW: And I said, " ; What?" ; (Laughter) BW: He said, " ; Yeah." ; Said, " ; Ours is burned and we need a location." ; I said, " ; Well mine is brand new, all new equipment and new floors." ; Everything was brand new, you know a year old or so but-- GS: Right. BW: And I said, " ; Well I just-- I just don' ; t know." ; I said, " ; This is a shock." ; GS: (Laughter) BW: Then he said, " ; Well what time you close." ; And I said, " ; Nine o' ; clock on Saturday night." ; And they said, " ; Well have your mind made up and we' ; ll be there at nine o' ; clock tonight." ; At nine o' ; clock, went over to lock the front door. Here come about fifteen people in the door. GS: Oh my word. BW: And they just spread out in my store. GS: (Laughter) BW: And anyway this vice president said, " ; You got a place we can go and talk?" ; And I said, " ; We can go back in my little office." ; It was back behind the self-service meats and all that department. Went back there and he asked me what it would take to buy it, and or give me a price and I says, " ; No." ; I said, " ; You make me an offer." ; And he kind of studied around and he made me an offer. Well I knew what it was gonna take to buy it, I just wasn' ; t gonna tell him. The offer he made me was more than what I would' ; ve asked. (Laughter) BW: But I knew my inventory. I knew what I had in it and I knew that I had a million dollars' ; worth of the business in my hip pocket-- GS: Yeah. BW: --too. The ones that didn' ; t, probably go out of town or something. GS: Right. BW: But anyway, I just jumped the price up a little more and he stuck his hand. He said, " ; Is it a deal?" ; We shook hands. GS: Wow. BW: And that' ; s how I sold my store. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: And he told me-- he said, " ; Well since we' ; re making this deal tonight, we should get the receipts for Sunday. I said, " ; What?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: I said, " ; Well I' ; m not gonna run the store for you." ; And I said, " ; I' ; ll tell you what I' ; ll do. If you want possession of it Sunday morning, have your manager to meet me here and I' ; ll give him the key." ; And they said, " ; Well we don' ; t have any money." ; We all made night deposits back then at the bank. And he said, " ; What we had to open with the next morning is in a safe and it' ; s too hot, we can' ; t get in it." ; (Laughter) BW: So I said, " ; Well I tell you what, you have your manager meet me and I' ; ll count him out enough money to last you for all three registers and cash to cash checks with. And all you need to do is just, we' ; ll write it on a piece of paper the amount and he signs it and I sign it." ; So I loaned them like three or four thousand dollars the next morning (Laughter) to operate my store. GS: Wow. BW: Anyway, got that done and Monday morning, well I call David Leffner (ph) was of course the best lawyer in town back then. And I say the best, he was one of the lawyers. We got several good lawyers, even back then. (Laughter) GS: Yeah. BW: And-- but I' ; d done business with him. I called him up and told him what I done. First thing David says, " ; You made a deal Saturday night and they' ; re running your store today?" ; GS: (Laughter) BW: He said, " ; Are you crazy?" ; I said, " ; No." ; I said, " ; I know the company and I did business with ' ; em and they know me. (Laughter) And I said, " ; We shook hands." ; GS: Yeah. BW: And he says, " ; Bob, you shoulda got something. You shoulda got a contract." ; I said, " ; If their handshake isn' ; t any good, their signature sure ain' ; t no good. (Laughter) BW: And that was my saying for years (Chuckling) GS: Well that' ; s a good saying. BW: But anyway, it went over so good. It took a little while cause it was several lots there and abstract on ever one of ' ; em. And it took about three or four months to get it straightened out between Leffner (ph) and the company lawyer. GS: And did you tell me what year that was? BW: That was in ' ; 70-- what' ; s fifteen years from ' ; 62? ' ; 77, ' ; 78-- GS: Okay. BW: -- somewhere along in there. Anyway, I' ; ll tell you how good a deal I had with ' ; em-- I didn' ; t make any provisions or say anything about if it took very long and it was still my profit until it was closed. But Hale-Halsell out on their own good will, paid me several thousand dollars a month extra for the three months it took to bring everything up to date. GS: Well good-- BW: --and closed. GS: --they should' ; ve (Laughter). BW: Yeah, and that' ; s how-- you know, they were honest. GS: Yes, they were and you knew that. BW: Yeah! But anyway, that' ; s what happened to me and after I sold the store-- and I gotta go back and say a few things too. The good people of Bristow were so good to me and I' ; m not talking about everybody up and down bank to bank and Main Street either, I' ; m talking about-- GS: The customers. BW: --the ole blue collared guys that was out working every day and I said, " ; They paid me so good" ; and I done a lot of credit. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And when I left that store and sold it, Audrey Gillum was my number one lady that checked groceries for me. They let me put a table there and a chair for her to sit and collect what collections I had. GS: Ah. BW: And after fifteen years of doing business out there of credit and checks, I lost less than two-thousand dollars. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: In fifteen years and that' ; s very unusual. GS: That is wonderful. BW: And they took care of me but bless their hearts, Levan Kelly of course known the Kelly family since I was a kid. GS: Yep. BW: And probably knew Levan better than any of ' ; em ' ; cause we rented a lot of their land. And we-- Levan would come by our house usually at dinner time. GS: (Laughter) BW: And he ate lunch with us at least once a month. GS: Oh my goodness. BW: And when I opened that store up in ' ; 62 he was the first one on that door step to congratulate me-- GS: Ah. BW: --on buying the store. In fact, he was the only one. (Laughter) GS: Wow. BW: But anyway, I' ; ll never forget that. And of course Tracy loaned me the money to do it. And some good words about Tracy, when they had his fiftieth anniversary-- they had an anniversary thing at the bank here years ago-- GS: Yes. BW: --and Tracy was losing his eye sight then. He couldn' ; t see really. GS: Right. BW: And of course me and Carolyn went up to the celebration to the bank. Walked up to Tracy, and said. " ; Tracy, congratulations." ; And all that. And he said, " ; Bob Webb." ; And I said, " ; How in the world did you" ; -- and he said, " ; I know your voice." ; GS: Uh-huh. BW: Stuck out his hand, we shook hands and I said, " ; Tracy, you and I worked together real good. You loaned me the money and I paid you back." ; (Laughter) BW: And-- GS: With interest! (Chuckling) BW: And he says, " ; Are you one of ' ; em that paid me back?" ; (Laughter) BW: Anyway, had good relations with them and still bank there too but, I was raised up at the other bank. That' ; s-- you usually bank where your folks were. GS: Right. BW: But, they loaned me the money! (Chuckling) GS: Exactly, exactly. BW: But, anyway, after I sold the store I never had hardly any vacation at all and I took my time about finding another job. And of course grocery business was an ideal thing for me. Affiliated tried to put me in a couple of stores. In fact, before I sold out Safeway had moved out of the one at Okemah that' ; s downtown, nice building. And moved out on I-40, close to I-40. GS: Yes. BW: And built a new store. Well, Bill Farha owned the building in Bristow and he also owned the one in Okemah, GS: Okay. BW: He built ' ; em for Safeway. GS: I did not know that. BW: And of course Bill traded with me at the store. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And we got together and he and I were gonna put that store in in Okemah. Beautiful building, big parking lot, and right in the middle of town. And we' ; d have probably put Safeway out of business earlier down there if we' ; d-- GS: Rival. BW: --of done it but anyway, Affiliated tried to get me to go ahead and do that and I thought-- you know I' ; ve took a chance and here it is ' ; 77, ' ; 78. Independent stores and all the trade-- grocery magazine said that independents were on their way out. It' ; s all gonna be chain stores. GS: Ah. BW: And I believed all that stuff. GS: Mmm. BW: Anyway, I told ' ; em-- I said, " ; No, I' ; m not gonna take a chance on another grocery store." ; Well would you believe and I' ; m sure you do, independents took over Oklahoma. Look at Reasor' ; s. GS: That' ; s true! BW: Independents are the big ones. Safeway, the big wholesaler in Oklahoma City, Fleming, (Indecipherable) and they owned a bunch of stores all over the nation too. Well it' ; s just completely different than what I thought and I know Reasor' ; s had a rough time. Larry Reasor, I knew him personally and he went broke. GS: Wow. BW: But his family, Escotts at Cushing-- GS: Escotts. BW: --saved the day for him. Reasor put a store right here in Bristow, right behind Mazzio' ; s. GS: Yes, I remember that. BW: And Larry-- GS: But it didn' ; t stay. BW: It didn' ; t go over-- Escotts his mother and father in law took it over for a while just to help him out. GS: Uh-huh. BW: But his son kind of took over the reins at Reasor' ; s and look at ' ; em today. GS: Yep. BW: Very successful so-- GS: They are. BW: I wondered if I made the right decision. But I went to work for Sysco Food Service and retired with them. And-- GS: I think you did fine, so-- BW: Well, you know it was a good company and I was looking for something with benefits. GS: And there aren' ; t as many headaches when you' ; re working for someone else. BW: Well, you know, (Chuckling) a lot of pressure when you' ; re running your own business. Especially-- GS: Yes, there is. BW: --when you' ; re young and doing a lot of credit. I was worried, one bad month would' ; ve put me down. GS: Yeah. BW: It would' ; ve. But like I say, the good people of Bristow stayed with me. GS: That' ; s wonderful. BW: And when I had the-- when I cut out the credit and all that, those people could' ; ve walked away from me and not even paid me ' ; cause they couldn' ; t go to another store and get credit. Well, they just-- everybody went to what they call a book plan and you send a check in with your grocery order. GS: Oh! BW: So when the wholesaler' ; s quit doing thirty-day credit, well the grocery stores had to quit doing-- GS: Well sure they did. BW: --thirty-day credit, cause there' ; s no cash flow. GS: Exactly. BW: But anyway, I can' ; t say enough about Bristow being good to me. GS: Yeah. BW: And I' ; ve-- I enjoyed working for Sysco, worked up to-- of course started out as salesman on the road. Created my own territory and about the second or third year I went in as sales manager. Had the office in Tulsa and went on up to regional manager which was half of Oklahoma, northwest Arkansas and parts of Kansas. GS: Very good. BW: And I had started out with about fifteen salesmen and when I retired I had like eighty-some salesmen. GS: Wow. That' ; s awesome, Bob. BW: And the president of the company told me, " ; Just run it like you did when you was on your territory and train your people like that." ; And that' ; s exactly what I did. And I had like a hundred and-- out of my office I did over a hundred and thirty, forty million dollars' ; worth of business. GS: Wow, that' ; s wonderful. BW: So it was-- it was a good operation and good company, honest company too. GS: So I know you' ; ve been busy since you retired. What have you done since you retired? BW: Well when I retired from Sysco, a month or so before I retired I went to John Hausam Realtors and they had classes for realtors. And I got my real-estate license, passed my test the first time, and good lord that was tough. But when I retired, went to work-- put my license with a-- oh a realtor out of Okmulgee County. They lived on the county line, Creek County and Okmulgee County out on a ranch and its real-estate. And there a farm couple, they been in the automobile business at Bixby running a dealership over there. But they wound up out on the farm and bought, oh I think they had two or three thousand acres up and down Big Deep Fork. And I put my license with them and I was the only man selling real estate when I started this. All the rest of them were ladies. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And of course I did commercial and farm and ranch. I' ; ve sold restaurants, convenience stores, and farm and ranch. I even sold Doodle' ; s Steakhouse. GS: Well. (Laughter) BW: But anyway, it was real good. Back when I started, it was a one-page listing and a sales contract was maybe a one or two pages, but after about ten, twelve years. It just about had to be a lawyer to do real estate. GS: My mother, it got to her-- BW: Yeah. GS: --and she had to get out for that reason. BW: But anyway, I stayed with it. I kept my license until a couple of years ago and I got-- I was appointed on the Industrial Board and about six months later they made me chairmen and the mayor put the Industrial Board in charge of all the city property. GS: Uh-huh. BW: About to go dead (Chucking) GS: No, I' ; m just double checking. (Laughter) BW: Anyway, the city turned that over to Industrial Board and of course they wanted to sell the Garment Factory and we had about fourteen lots that was given to The City of Bristow by a lady that was raised up in Bristow and she passed away out in California, and she donated them to the city of Bristow. So, they had already found a buyer for the Garment Factory but it-- nobody had closed it and they had sold it almost a year ago earlier. (Chuckling) GS: Oh. BW: And I got to looking at it and I said, " ; Hey what' ; s the deal here?" ; and they said, " ; Well no closings every been set up." ; And of course me being in real estate I jumped right on it. GS: Well sure. BW: And I got that closed and the buyer was just waiting on somebody to do it. GS: I would think that they would' ; ve pestered somebody to do it. BW: Well, evidently he had it he wasn' ; t worried about it. (Chuckling) GS: Huh. BW: So it wouldn' ; t cost him any money. GS: I see. BW: But anyway, it was a good sale and first think I did-- I got busy and got it closed out and the fourteen lots that was donated, I sold them to a builder and he' ; s already built two or three houses on some of the lots. And they' ; re homes that probably range from a hundred and ten to a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. GS: Hmm. BW: Anybody that' ; s got a job can probably qualify. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And they' ; re in an area of Bristow, Hickory and Poplar. GS: Yes. BW: Especially Hickory that needs to be cleaned up. GS: Yes. BW: She-- he' ; s cleared off all the lots and there was a couple of the houses that belong to some out of town people and I think he has bought those now. And he' ; s really cleaned it up and hopefully in the near future, there' ; ll be new homes there. So I-- you know I put my real estate license on vacation. GS: Yes. BW: ' ; Cause I didn' ; t want people to think I was making money off the city. GS: Right. BW: So I haven' ; t reactivated my license. GS: Well-- BW: I think I' ; m retired now from that. (Laughter) BW: What else Georgia Kay? GS: Well, let me look-- BW: Oh I lived out on the farm and I' ; ve still got a horse. I don' ; t-- I don' ; t run cows anymore. My three kids all live out of state and you can' ; t go visit and run off and leave cows. (Chuckling). So I sold all my cows and fertilized and resodded a lot of my pasture and now I bale hay and sell hay. GS: That' ; s good, that' ; s good. BW: I can run off and leave it. (Chuckling) GS: Here' ; s an interesting question. What would you consider to be the most important intervention during your life time? Invention, sorry not intervention. Invention. BW: Invention. Oh God. GS: There' ; s been a lot of ' ; em. BW: I' ; ll tell you two things that bothered me more than anything. GS: And that was a pager and a cell phone. (Laughter) GS: You sound like my husband. BW: Well out on the road in sales and everything, sometimes-- especially when I become the manager, I' ; d get so many pages and wanting you to call ' ; em back and stuff like that and it was hard to do. And same way with cellphones, especially if you was working with somebody or even running somebody' ; s territory. But that was probably an important thing and all the computers, laptops. On my laptop I had all of these salesmen' ; s business on my laptop. GS: Oh my. BW: Every customer they had and had a complete warehouse inventory on it. GS: Wow. BW: And that laptop was absolutely a gold mine. GS: Yes, it would be. BW: And it has since I' ; ve retired, it' ; s probably quadrupled what you can do with ' ; em. GS: Oh yeah. BW: And see that was in ' ; 98. GS: Oh yeah. BW: That they were-- GS: Lots happened-- BW: Yeah. GS: --since then. BW: But that was what the capability was back then. GS: Yeah, so probably the computer? BW: Oh yeah. Yeah. GS: Any significant changes you' ; ve seen in Bristow since you are on the Industrial Board or even like as a child that you know, you think were big improvements to Bristow? BW: Well you know-- GS: Or had a big impact to Bristow? BW: Yeah. I kinda beat around the bush about this, but you know a kid from the farm ; we came to town on Saturday. Main Street was just full ; you couldn' ; t find a parking place. And usually the farmers when they came in, they came in for the day. GS: Yes. BW: And you know, we' ; d go to the Walmur Theatre and get in there for a dime or so. Eat a hamburger at Llyon' ; s Café, and then dad would do his visiting up and down Main Street making (indecipherable) sale, or whatever. And mom would usually go to the Princess Theatre, that was where the adults went you know. GS: Okay, that' ; s why I never went to the Princess I guess much. BW: It was-- I didn' ; t go very often until I married her-- married Carolyn. (Chuckling) GS: Uh-huh. BW: But anyway, and the Main Street was just so busy. But you know, I' ; m on a couple other boards too and when we' ; re having general meetings or-- we' ; ve had a couple of meetings I' ; d hold ' ; em here in Bristow. And I had the Conservation District and we-- and a whole area Conservation Districts, which takes most of northeastern Oklahoma. And it was my turn to hold it here, I had it down at the Church of God where we go to church and we was gonna really impress ' ; em. So we ordered T-Bone steaks, we had like about a hundred people there. GS: Wow. BW: We ordered a hundred T-Bone steaks and had one of the farm service representatives to bring his cooker and cooked them outside the Church of God. GS: Wow. BW: And baked potatoes, the whole ball of wax. Anyway, of course I gave a-- GS: And this is for Conservation-- BW: Yeah, this is-- GS: --Group? BW: --all of northeastern Oklahoma-- GS: Oh okay. BW: --Area of Conservation Districts. And there' ; s a district in every county. (Chuckling) GS: Yes, yes. BW: So we had a lot of people there. GS: Yes. BW: And this was board members. Anyway, I gave-- I got up and gave a little talk and a welcome to Bristow and I said, " ; While you' ; re here, I want you to go out by our school system, drive around our lake, and I want you to notice when you go up and down Main Street, how busy Bristow Main Street is." ; And I said this a many of time. Between Tulsa and Oklahoma City, Bristow' ; s Main Street is the busiest one. GS: I agree with you there. BW: It is! GS: Mm-hmm. BW: And of course if they catch it early in the morning, or late in the evening, it' ; s worse than anything else. (Laughter) GS: Yes. BW: But it kindly reminds you-- I mean through the day. You go to Stroud, you go to Chandler, you don' ; t see that over there. GS: No. BW: Only time you see it in Chandler, if its court day. (Chuckling) There' ; ll be a little business there then. GS: Uh-huh. BW: And you go to Sapulpa, it don' ; t compare to ours. GS: Uh-huh. BW: Cause their Main Street' ; s not as busy as the one that' ; s going east and west, what is it Dew-- GS: Dewey, I believe. BW: Yeah. GS: Yeah. BW: That' ; s it. Our Main Street' ; s busier than Sapulpa' ; s. GS: (Indecipherable) BW: And they all-- well they even applauded. (Laughter) BW: And I said, " ; If any of yall want to move to Bristow give me a call, I' ; m in real estate." ; (Laughter) GS: There you go. There you go. Well, can you think of anything else that you would like to add? BW: Yeah. And this' ; ll give you a little project, maybe. GS: Okay. BW: Maybe. GS: Okay. BW: When they first opened it up, down at the railroad station-- GS: Uh-huh. BW: I had a picture of my dad-- my grandad, I' ; m sorry. And-- GS: And what was his name? BW: Charlie Webb Senior. GS: Okay. BW: And-- GS: So your dad was Charlie Webb and your grandfather was Charlie Webb? BW: Yeah. GS: Senior. Okay. BW: Yeah. Anyway, when he was a young man here in Bristow Arthur Foster' ; s dad-- what was his name, I' ; ll be darn. GS: Who' ; s dad did you say? BW: Arthur Foster' ; s GS: Arthur Foster' ; s. BW: Well, I' ; ll be darn. Steve' ; s (ph) son is named after him. (Chuckling) GS: Okay. I' ; ll find out (Chuckling). BW: They were friends and my grandad and Tall-- Tall Foster (ph). GS: Oh okay, that' ; s an unusual name. BW: And Anna Louis Foster (ph) GS: Yes. BW: They were on horseback and they were in the middle of Main Street where the Community State Bank is now. GS: Yes. BW: And where the stationary office supply' ; s at. GS: Yes. BW: They were all three of ' ; em on horses and they all three had black suits. That' ; s about the only suit a man would wear back then was a black suit. GS: Yes. BW: They had black suits on, black hats, and on their horses. And there' ; s a picture of them down there in the museum. And when I was on the School Board here in Bristow, Ms. Foster (ph) after she retired, she got on the School Board and I got this picture and I made her a copy of it and gave it to her. And I said-- and Arthur was still alive at the time. And she was so proud of that picture, she took it down there and they displayed it. GS: Ah. BW: And anyway-- GS: At the museum? BW: At the museum. Anyway, they change ' ; em around once in a while. GS: Yes. BW: Anyway, I' ; ve ask ' ; em about that picture over the last three or four years. And it' ; s probably stored down there some place. GS: The problem with-- I' ; ll address that pretty soon. BW: Yeah, I gotcha. Well, you know and I' ; ve ask about it, but they-- that' ; s when they was having to move stuff around and all that. But I hope it didn' ; t get lost. GS: I doubt if it' ; s lost-- BW: ' ; Cause they got the-- GS: We just-- BW: --they got the original. GS: --have to locate it. BW: Yeah. But anyway, I think I may-- I' ; ve still got the original. GS: But that' ; s something we' ; re working on. BW: Yeah, yeah. But anyway, that was a coincidence. But there' ; s a lot of other things I could tell you about. The old times, but I had a great uncle that was a brother to this Uncle Isaac that was a Marshal. GS: Yes, yes. BW: His younger brother-- the youngest one in the family. They lived out on a farm out the edge of Bristow. I think it was out here on 16. Just about straight across-- well down where yall live. GS: Okay. BW: Anyway their neighbors, and they were good friends-- the families were. But something happened-- an animal got in one of ' ; ems garden. And I think it was one of my grandad' ; s cow or hog or something-- GS: Got in the other one' ; s garden? BW: Got in the other one' ; s garden. And right by the Community State Bank where it' ; s at now, here come the father and the son of the family that lived next door. And they-- the boy wasn' ; t about fifteen, sixteen years old and the old man jumped my great uncle, and they had a little scuffle and they stabbed my uncle. GS: Oh my word! BW: And he started across the street to where the office supply is at. GS: Yes. BW: And then they shot him. GS: (Gasp) No! BW: Shot him in the back. Anyway, since the young man was-- of course they didn' ; t do anything to him. But his dad, they sent him to prison. GS: And so I guess your great uncle died. BW: Oh yeah, he died. Died right on the spot. GS: Ah. BW: Died in the middle of the street-- Main Street. GS: Ah. BW: And anyway, the old man-- I say old man, he was probably forty years old. Might not have even been that old. But he went to prison for a few years and when he got out of prison, he got killed. GS: Somebody killed him. BW: And I think I know who it was. GS: Oh! BW: The US Marshal. (Chuckling) GS: Oh. (Chuckling) BW: I mean, that story-- and the bad thing about it, or the good thing about I guess you' ; d say. Those families went back together and got close. GS: Well that' ; s good. BW: To this day, I even sold the young man that was with his dad that killed my uncle? I even sold their property. I sold his brother' ; s property. GS: My goodness. BW: I mean the families got so close. GS: Huh. BW: And my grandad lived just east of the county barn about two blocks. GS: Now what was your uncle' ; s name that got killed? BW: Harrison. GS: Harrison Webb? BW: Yeah. GS: And, do you have any idea about what decade that would' ; ve been? BW: It would' ; ve been in between-- before the ' ; 20s. GS: Before the ' ; 20s. BW: Yeah. GS: Bristow was still young then. BW: Yeah, yeah. GS: Dirt roads on Main Street and-- BW: Dirt streets, yeah. And anyway, my grand-- grandad-- a brother to the one that got killed. Lived east of the county barn and a brother to one of the people that killed my great uncle lived about two to three blocks away and they were good friends. Every birthday my grandmother or grandad or his wife-- and wife and husband-- they celebrated birthdays together. GS: Wow. BW: That' ; s how close the family was. GS: Yeah. BW: And me and Carolyn thought the world of ' ; em. GS: Isn' ; t that something. Well, you know you can' ; t hold responsibility for all your relatives. BW: Well, you know it' ; s just-- they would had to be good friends to get back together like that. GS: Yes, they did. BW: So. GS: Well. BW: But I know several other stories, but you might want to edit that out I don' ; t know. GS: No-- BW: I didn' ; t give you any names. GS: --I think that' ; s a good story! BW: (Chuckling) GS: No you didn' ; t, you didn' ; t say who the other people were so that' ; s alright. BW: And everybody else is-- GS: (Chuckling) BW: --passed on. GS: Yep, yep. BW: Except maybe-- well probably not any rest of ' ; em live around here now. GS: Yeah. Okay, do your children still live around here? BW: No. Robert JR, he lives in Phoenix. He' ; s been there for-- oh gosh, twenty-five years. GS: How old would Rob be now? BW: He' ; ll be about sixty-one now. GS: Okay. BW: He graduated-- all three kids graduated OSU. He went to work for General Foods and they moved him to southern California for about four or five years and then to Phoenix. And they was getting ready to move him again and he said, " ; I' ; m not moving again." ; So-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --he resigned and went to Arizona State and got his masters and as soon as he walked out he went straight to Intel and now he does all the contracts for Intel. GS: Good for him. BW: This is worldwide (Chuckling). GS: Good for him. BW: So he' ; s got a good job and been with them-- he' ; ll probably be retiring in the next few years too. GS: Okay. BW: Sue, my daughter-- that' ; s the middle kid. Lives in Alameda, California and she finished at OSU she got in the car and had interviews. Well she trained in TV and Journalism. GS: Ah. BW: And she got a job in Wichita Falls, Texas. The guy that owned the CBS station there also owned an advertising company and he put her to work. And Tom, her husband graduated after she did and she put his name in a pot at the TV station, and he came down and he got it and he was the director of the news and all the morning and evening news. And they were there for about a year or so and they went to Alameda, California and Tom went to work for the-- what' ; s the big-- Federal Reserve Bank. GS: Oh okay. BW: And he' ; s been with them now about thirty-three years. GS: That' ; s awesome. BW: And he' ; s probably-- GS: Gosh, it doesn' ; t-- BW: --going to retire this year. GS: --seem possible. BW: Yeah, yeah. (Laughter) BW: And Sue, she went to work for an advertising company and she had-- in fact, (chuckling) when she was at OSU they put billboards all around the state with her carrying a tray and it said, " ; Good ole boys don' ; t drink and drive." ; GS: Ah! BW: But these billboards were all over the state. GS: Oh I' ; d loved to have seen one of ' ; em. BW: Well, there was one down at Okmulgee, and of course on major highways is where-- GS: I probably wouldn' ; t have known it was her if I saw it. BW: A lot of people didn' ; t realize that probably. GS: I bet not. Ah. BW: But anyway, she did the same thing out there. She went to work for an advertising company, and she was-- they used her as a model. GS: Wow. BW: But-- GS: So she was a pretty, young lady. BW: Well, she done good and she went to work for-- after she got through with that, well she went to work for-- oh it' ; s a food program-- food bank thing. And she' ; d go out and make all the contacts for different companies and send trucks by to pick up food that they donated to the food bank. GS: Good. Good for her. And Stacy' ; s where? BW: Stacy, he was in Oklahoma City. He was a director at the-- at the Omniplex. He was one-- GS: Oh really! BW: He was one of the directors down there for about four or five years and he got the hankering to go someplace else and he followed somebody all the way to Portland, Oregon. GS: Wow. BW: And he worked out there for two or three years. Bought a condo and anyway, the place where he worked-- hard times hit Oregon pretty bad back ten years ago. GS: Ah. BW: And the place where he worked, they shut it down. GS: Ah. BW: And he was scared to death, but he got-- heard of an opportunity in San Francisco. And the Hurst (ph) family has got a thing out there. I forget the name of it, Carolyn might' ; ve gave it to you. Where they do-- for families that don' ; t have homes and-- GS: Okay. BW: Cause a lot of people live in cars and live on the railroad tracks and-- GS: Oh my. BW: --all of that. But he-- (Chuckling) he goes out and hits all of the businesses up for donations. GS: Well good for him. BW: And he' ; s got-- he' ; s done great out here. GS: Oh good for him. BW: He' ; s done good. GS: Good for him. BW: So-- GS: Well Bob, I have just enjoyed our interview tremendously and I appreciate ever so much-- BW: Oh, you bet. GS: --you taking the extra time (Chuckling). BW: Well. GS: For this. BW: I hope we both got it recorded. (Laughter) GS: I hope so too! Thanks a lot Bob. BW: Well, I appreciate you too and want to let everybody know. I' ; ve known this girl for years. She babysitted for us-- GS: (Laughter) BW: --when we lived across the street from ' ; em. GS: And he still calls me Eegee Kay. BW: Yeah! GS: Because that' ; s what little Stacy would call me. (Chuckling) BW: Yep. (Laughter) End of interview. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-07_Webb_Bob.xml OHP-2020-07_Webb_Bob.xml
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Bob Webb
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: In this 2020 interview, Bob Webb shares about his experience growing up in the Bristow area. He discusses attending high school, meeting his wife Carolyn, and owning his own grocery store. He also shares about his later life in Bristow as he served on many boards and was even a realtor in the Bristow area.
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OHP-2020-07
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2020-10-20
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audio