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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Wanda Newton
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Winey Harjo
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0042B_Winey_Harjo.xml
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5.4 March 6, 1991 OHP-0042B Winey Harjo - Part 2 OHP-0042B 0:00-30:13 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Winey Harjo Wanda Newton 1:|33(2)|55(2)|77(2)|105(9)|141(6)|158(9)|174(14)|188(6)|222(2)|249(4)|279(3)|305(2)|339(15)|367(8)|400(1)|427(1)|443(6)|460(11)|494(4)|524(11)|553(7)|574(12)|592(7)|611(1)|646(4)|664(3)|695(3)|721(10)|739(8)|773(4) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0042B Harjo, Winey.mp3 Other audio 0 First Car WH: We just give $300 for the T-Model. WN: You gave $300 for your first car? WH: Model-T, it didn’t run but on battery. It runs on mash. And you had to crank it. WN: Well did you pay cash for the car or did you… WH: I don’t remember. I don’t think so. WN: You had to pay it out like we all… WH: Yeah. You didn’t have to buy no tag or nothing. Winey's first car was a Model-T that cost $300 and ran on mash. mash ; Model-T ; wagon first car ; Model-T 62 Early Life WN: Alright, can you tell me, did you ever take a summer vacation anywhere? WH: No. We didn’t know nothin’ about no summer vacation. I don’t do that now. WN: You just work all the time, don’t you? WH: Yeah. WN: Tell me, your children, tell me about your early children. When you had them did you have a doctor? When you had your children, did you have a doctor? WH: Well, an Indian doctor. WN: An Indian doctor. Winey talks about using an Indian doctor for her kids, her kids attending school, making squaw bread and their first refrigerator. Edison Elementary School ; Indian doctor ; Indian language ; Indian Mission School ; Indian school ; refrigerator ; squaw bread early life 361 Church WH: And I know what preacher has pastured our church. WN: Who was that? WH: His name was Jasper Bale and the other one was Louie Dunson (ph). WN: Oh, that’s such a wonderful bit of info…tell me anything else about that church that you can remember. Can you tell me how people came? Did they used to have more Indians coming or less? Tell me about your church. WH: Oh, well (speaks Indian). WN: Oh, that’s so lovely. Winey remembers attending church and the pastor being Jasper Bale. church life church ; Indian prayers ; Jasper Bale ; pastor 453 Stomp Dances WN: Oh wonderful! What did you do for entertainment when you were about 15 or 16-years-old. What was it like being a teenager? WH: For entertainment? WN: Yeah, what did you all do? WH: Go to Indian stomp dance. WN: Well, come on in Wesley and join us. WH: We’d go to Indian stomp dance. WN: You went to the Indian stomp dance. WH: Yeah and had a big dinner and everyone dance and… As a teenage, Winey enjoyed going to Indian stomp dances. stomp dance ; Wesley Harjo stomp dance 486 Marriage WN: Well, what did you look for in a husband. What did your mother tell you to look for in a…how did she tell you to look for a husband? WH: How did I do? WN: Yeah, what did your momma say to you to get a husband? WH: She said…she didn’t say. She didn’t want me to marry, but after I meet this man in church, you can go ahead and marry him if you want to. WN: Well, how old were you? WH: Well, see I married in 1911, and I was just 15-years-old. WN: 15-years-old. Wesley, what do you think of that? Winey was married in 1911 at the age of 15. husband ; marriage marriage 617 Wesley's Childhood WN: Wesley, what do you remember about being a little boy? What’s the favorite thing you remember about your mother when you were a little boy…and your daddy? Did you have any favorite toys or favorite thing that happened to you with you and your father? [Inaudible] WH: They’d go to church every day with us. WN: Well, that’s something. WH: But they got up into the teenage.. WN: And then things changed, didn’t it? Did you work in the fields with your father, Wesley? WNH: Yeah [indecipherable]. Wesley talks about working with his dad in the corn fields, having pneumonia, his best friend who was killed and attending school. arrowheads ; bodock tree ; bow and arrow ; childhood ; church ; corn ; Deep Fork River ; medicine man ; Nuyaka Indian School ; pneumonia ; Tony Harris ; work Wesley's childhood 907 Husband & ; Children WN: He didn’t have the patience, did he? How long has your husband been dead, Mrs. Harjo? WH: Oh, how long is it, Wesley? WNH: About 30 years. WH: I think he died in 1960, along in there. WN: Okay, did you have a special Indian ceremony for him? WH: Huh uh. WN: Just a regular church. WH: Just at church. WN: Just at the church. How many children do you have living now, Mrs. Harjo? Just Wesley? WH: And two girls. Winey's husband passed away in 1960 and at the time of the interview she had one son and two girls still living. children ; husband ; Indian benefits ; Okemah ; pension children ; husband 1114 Social Security WH: This year, I guess it must be about a year ago, they told me to get on that disabled social security. WN: Uh huh. WH: So, I signed up on that. WN: Did you get it? WH: I got $137. WN: A month? WH: A month. Could you live off of $137? WN: No! Well, I’d have to change my way of living, I tell you. Is that what you live on? WH: That’s all I get. Winey talks about not receiving any benefits after her husband's death. disability ; pension ; social security social security 1141 Wesley in the Service WH: ‘Course Wesley draw soldier pension. WN: Yeah. WH: Cause he’d been to the army. WN: Well, of course. But you earned every dime of that in the service. When did you go into the service, Wesley? WNH: Nineteen-forty…I think it was forty-one. WN: And did you have to…you served overseas? WNH: Yeah. WN: Where were you stationed? WNH: In the navy. Wesley served in the Navy overseas. navy ; pension ; service Navy service 1251 Grandchildren WN: Oh, that’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. How many children, grandchildren do you have? WH: Oh, about nine. WN: About nine? And how many great grandchildren? WH: Ten, eleven. WN: You all ever get together and have any… WH: No. They won’t even come see me yet. WN: They won’t? That’s terrible. Well, do they live far away? WH: Well, one lives in, oh dear, not Chickasaw, but that other…Anadarko. WN: Anadarko. Winey's words of wisdom to her grandchildren is to do right by other people and to go to church. advice ; Anadarko ; grandchildren ; Indian Church ; Sunday School advice ; grandchildren 1502 Indian Songs & ; Stomp Dances WN: That’s right. And when were in that cemetery, nobody going to know the difference between anything. No, they really aren’t. I wish you’d sing some more for me in Indian. WH: Sing some more? WN: Uh huh. Or sing some more for me in Indian. Because I think that’s so wonderful. We’ve got a little bit left on our tape, and I want you to tell me some more in Indian. WH: (Sings in Indian). I’ll say three times. WN: Okay. WH: (Sings in Indian). Winey sings a song in Indian and talks about the fun they had at stomp dances. Indian songs ; stomp dances Indian songs ; stomp dances 1603 Medicine WH: I know they used that red root. WN: Red root? Can you think of anything else you used for medicine? WH: Uh, let’s see. What did they call that? I can’t recall the name of that medicine. I know what it is in Creek, but… WN: Well, say it in Creek. What was it? WH: (Speaks Creek). WN: Okay. What else did you use for medicine? Did you use… WH: Oh, you could use this horsemint and uh… Winey talks about the different natural medicines they used to cure ailments such as toothaches. chewing gum ; horsemint ; red root ; sassafras ; toothache 1778 Indian Dance WN: Well, I’m going to have to look at that tree and see if I can figure out what it is. Did you ever use feathers, you know, for… WH: On the head? WN: Uh huh. Never used feathers? You used ribbons on your… WH: Yeah. You actually call that the ribbon dance. WN: The ribbon dance. And the gar dance? Winey talks about the different Indian dances she would do. buffalo dance ; gar dance ; Indian dance ; ribbon dance Indian dances MP3 In Part Two of Winey Harjo's 1991 interview she continues talking about their first car, speaks and sings in Creek, talks about her grandchildren and medicines they used for ailments. She also introduces her son, Wesley, and he talks about what it was like growing up in Bristow. Part Two WH: We just give $300 for the T-Model. WN: You gave $300 for your first car? WH: Model-T, it didn' ; t run but on battery. It runs on mash. And you had to crank it. WN: Well did you pay cash for the car or did you-- WH: I don' ; t remember. I don' ; t think so. WN: You had to pay it out like we all-- WH: Yeah. You didn' ; t have to buy no tag or nothing. WN: You didn' ; t have to have a driver' ; s license? WH: No. WN: Could you drive the car? WH: Yeah. No one didn' ; t teach me. I just sittin' ; in the car [undecipherable] you know driving, and I just learned. WN: Learned by yourself? That is fantastic. Well, after you got your car then you didn' ; t use your wagon anymore? WH: Yeah. WN: You used your wagon some? WH: Yeah, we' ; d use the wagon, too. WN: Alright, can you tell me, did you ever take a summer vacation anywhere? WH: No. We didn' ; t know nothin' ; about no summer vacation. I don' ; t do that now. WN: You just work all the time, don' ; t you? WH: Yeah. WN: Tell me, your children, tell me about your early children. When you had them did you have a doctor? When you had your children, did you have a doctor? WH: Well, an Indian doctor. WN: An Indian doctor. WH: Then after that, well, doctors came in pretty regular in Bristow, different ones, you know. [Indecipherable] children didn' ; t get sick like they do now. WN: Yeah, well it' ; s because they didn' ; t eat all the junk. WH: Yeah. They would play in the woods, you know, and swim all the time. They didn' ; t have time to get sick. WN: And they minded, too, didn' ; t they? WH: Oh yeah. WN: They didn' ; t sass you. Do you remember your first radio? Do you remember ever getting a radio. WH: Yeah, but it was run by battery. WN: It was run by battery. How long was it before you got a refrigerator? How did you keep your food from spoiling? WH: Well, we didn' ; t have much to cook anyway, so when we cooked, there was none left over because with a bunch of kids. WN: Fill ' ; em up! WH: Yeah, they would eat between meals if there was anything left over. It didn' ; t have time to just spoil like it do now. And I remember when we first got an icebox, we had to buy ice and put it in there, the refrigerator. WN: Well now let me ask you, did you make squaw bread all the time? WH: Oh yeah. After they started selling flour, made squaw bread. WN: But you made corn bread before? WH: Yeah. WN: Well, let me ask you again, when your children were little, when they went to school, were you living here, right here, when the little ones went to school? WH: Yeah, not here. WN: Not here? WH: Huh uh. We used to live right back here. WN: And the children walked to school? WH: No. WN: No. WH: Well, most of them did until they started driving the bus. WN: Well, now let me ask you, did your children all go to this school right here at Edison, or did they go over to Washington? WH: No, Edison. WN: They all went to Edison School. WH: Yeah, and Wilson and Wesley, they went to [indecipherable]. WN: Are they the only ones that went to an Indian school? Well, you didn' ; t have any children that went over to Sapulpa then to the school-- WH: Yeah, two of them. WN: Two of them. WH: There was Barney and Taylor. They went to that Sapulpa Indian school one year. WN: Indian Mission School. WH: One year. WN: They didn' ; t like it? WH: Well, they liked it, but it closed down. WN: Oh, I see. WH: And, so they just went to school here. WN: How did you teach your children about their Indian ancestors. Did you make them speak Indian any? WH: They wouldn' ; t. This school wouldn' ; t let them talk it. WN: Oh, they wouldn' ; t? That' ; s awful, isn' ; t it? WH: I don' ; t know how come. But see me and my husband would talk it all the time between them at home, but they wouldn' ; t pick it up. WN: The didn' ; t learn to speak Indian? Wesley doesn' ; t? Can Wesley talk Indian now? WH: He can understand but he don' ; t talk it. WN: Would you say something in Indian for me on this? Can you just tell us anything in Indian, and we won' ; t ever know what it is. WH: Okay. WN: Alright. WH: (speaking Indian) WN: Oh, I wished I had a television [indecipherable]. You' ; re such a beautiful person, Mrs. Harjo. Oh you' ; re just such a nice person. WH: And I know what preacher has pastured our church. WN: Who was that? WH: His name was Jasper Bale and the other one was Louie Dunson (ph). WN: Oh, that' ; s such a wonderful bit of info--tell me anything else about that church that you can remember. Can you tell me how people came? Did they used to have more Indians coming or less? Tell me about your church. WH: Oh, well (speaks Indian). WN: Oh, that' ; s so lovely. WH: That means a lot of them used to come, but they don' ; t now, because some of us stay sick and some of them come and some of them don' ; t. That' ; s what I said. WN: That' ; s wonderful! Sing me an Indian prayer. Can you sing me an Indian prayer? WH: Yeah. (Speaks Indian). WN: Oh wonderful! What did you do for entertainment when you were about 15 or 16-years-old. What was it like being a teenager? WH: For entertainment? WN: Yeah, what did you all do? WH: Go to Indian stomp dance. WN: Well, come on in Wesley and join us. WH: We' ; d go to Indian stomp dance. WN: You went to the Indian stomp dance. WH: Yeah and had a big dinner and everyone dance and-- WN: Well, what did you look for in a husband. What did your mother tell you to look for in a--how did she tell you to look for a husband? WH: How did I do? WN: Yeah, what did your momma say to you to get a husband? WH: She said--she didn' ; t say. She didn' ; t want me to marry, but after I meet this man in church, you can go ahead and marry him if you want to. WN: Well, how old were you? WH: Well, see I married in 1911, and I was just 15-years-old. WN: 15-years-old. Wesley, what do you think of that? WNH: [Indecipherable] I guess. WN: How old are you, Wesley? WNH: 76. WN: 76. Your oldest baby, isn' ; t it? WN: Yeah. WN: And she told me you didn' ; t learn to speak the Indian language very well. Shame on you, Wesley. WNH: I couldn' ; t help it. They didn' ; t like us talking it at that government school. WN: I want you to tell me what made an Indian handsome in those days. Why did you choose your husband? WH: Because he would go to stomp dances and sing these stomp dances, and then we' ; d enjoy and we like to hear it. WN: Alright, now can you sing me a song? WH: That' ; s Indian? WN: Yeah, you sing-- WH: Oh, I can' ; t sing that. WN: Well, sing me any song. WH: Indian song? WN: Any, any. WH: Oh--(sings in Indian). WN: And what the title of that song? WH: I don' ; t know it has any title. WN: Oh, well it sounds good, doesn' ; t it? Did you understand it? WNH: No. WH: No, he doesn' ; t. WN: Wesley, what do you remember about being a little boy? What' ; s the favorite thing you remember about your mother when you were a little boy--and your daddy? Did you have any favorite toys or favorite thing that happened to you with you and your father? [Inaudible] WH: They' ; d go to church every day with us. WN: Well, that' ; s something. WH: But they got up into the teenage..WN: And then things changed, didn' ; t it? Did you work in the fields with your father, Wesley? WNH: Yeah [indecipherable]. WN: And do you remember some of the things that you planted and everything? WNH: Yeah. Planted corn and [indecipherable] and chopped corn and everything else. WN: Did you help your mother a lot? WNH: Not as much as I did my dad. WN: Your girls helped you a lot? WH: Yeah, when they wasn' ; t getting married. WN: When they weren' ; t married. WH: And then when they get married well then [indecipherable]. WN: Well, yeah, that' ; s the way it always happens, isn' ; t it? Wesley, do you remember ever being sick or anything? WNH: Yeah. I had the pneumonia. WN: And did the medicine man cure you or did you go to a doctor? Do you remember? WNH: I had to go to the doctor. WN: You had to go to the doctor for that. Who was your best friend when you were growing up? Do you remember having a best friend? WNH: Tony Harris, I think. WN: Was he an Indian boy? About as old as you are? WNH: Yeah. WN: Do you remember Tony Harris? WH: Yeah. WN: Was he ornery or a pretty good boy? WH: He was ornery. He got killed in a car wreck. He was staying with us [indecipherable] raise him, too. WN: Oh, really? And he was killed in an automobile--not the Model-T was it? WH: No. WNH: He got killed down at Nuyaka Indian School. WN: Oh, tell me about that Nuyaka Indian School. Did you all ever go down there? WH: Where? WN: To Nuyaka? WH: I never did, but I know where it was at. WN: But isn' ; t there a place you had stomp dances down there sometimes, down in that area by Deep Fork? WNH: Yeah. WN: I want to know, how come everybody finds Indian arrowheads down on Deep Fork? WH: I don' ; t know. WN: Well, I thought maybe it was part of yours when you were killing the rabbits or something. WH: No, I never did go down there, but I know where it was at. WNH: Didn' ; t you used to shoot them fish in that Deep Fork River, but I guess it broke the arrows, and that' ; s the way-- WN: Well, when you were shooting the rabbits, did you make your own bows and arrows? WH: Yeah. WN: What did you make them out of? WH: Bodock. We got a bodock tree. WN: That one that has the big orange--the big things on it? WH: Yeah. Of course, you make your arrow where the tree grows with that certain thing, it would go just as straight and you make arrows with that. WN: And then you just sharpened the point? WH: Yeah, you just peel all that skin off it, and then heat it on the blaze fire. Brown it. And then make a spike. Then you cut the spike in a V-shape and wrap it over that. WN: What did you wrap it with? WH: A hammer. WN: A hammer? And just hammered it like that? WH: Yeah. WN: What did you use for feathers? Did you have a feather on the end? WH: That' ; s when you make a--kill a squirrel, you put that feather on--any kind of feather. You put that feather on there. WN: Chicken feather or anything? WH: Yeah. Shoot and make it go straight. WN: I would have starved to death back there. I bet I couldn' ; t have shot. WH: You didn' ; t kill a squirrel with no gun. You shoot it with a bow and arrow. WN: Did you ever kill a squirrel with a bow and arrow, Wesley? [Inaudible] WH: Fish. Shoot the fish. WN: He shot the fish with the--yeah. WNH: I was too young to shoot bow and arrows. I tried to shoot them, but I couldn' ; t [indecipherable]. WN: He didn' ; t have the patience, did he? How long has your husband been dead, Mrs. Harjo? WH: Oh, how long is it, Wesley? WNH: About 30 years. WH: I think he died in 1960, along in there. WN: Okay, did you have a special Indian ceremony for him? WH: Huh uh. WN: Just a regular church. WH: Just at church. WN: Just at the church. How many children do you have living now, Mrs. Harjo? Just Wesley? WH: And two girls. WN: And the two girls. I forgot to tell you when we were doing this. This is March the 6th, 1991, so they' ; ll know when I was interviewing. I forgot to tell that at the very first. Well, let me see what else I need to ask you. I' ; m just--eh--let me see. I should have just gone over here to the page and asked you some more. Oh, what did your husband do? Did he do anything but farm? WH: That' ; s all. He didn' ; t work. That' ; s the reason when he passed away, I didn' ; t get no kind of-- WN: You didn' ; t get any pension or? WH: No. WN: You didn' ; t get anything? You don' ; t get a government check or anything? That' ; s awful! That' ; s terrible. WH: We just didn' ; t have no money to buy clothes, just barely living buy a little rent. My cattle [inaudible] and then we had someone was renting up here. We' ; d collect that rent at $3 a month for about four or five houses, and we' ; d live on that. Buy us something to eat, clothes-- WN: That is terrible. You know, you Indians really ought to have an uprising and shoot all the white people. That' ; s what you should do. That' ; s terrible, Mrs. Harjo. WNH: Yeah, it was pretty rough back in them days. WN: That is awful. I don' ; t know how you can even talk to a white person. WH: I think in Muskogee they used give the kids a little clothes, shoes and sweaters or something like that when they going to school. WN: But not much. WH: Not much, no. [Indecipherable] no pants or shirts or nothing like that. They get shoes and coats and sweaters. WN: Yeah. Well, that is, that is terrible. Well now you all can go to the Indian Hospital, but then you have to drive to Claremore, don' ; t you? Do you, can you go to the hospital now over at Okmulgee? WNH: No, they got one over at Okemah. WN: Okemah for you. Well, do you get any, you don' ; t get any Indian benefits at all now then? WH: No. WN: That is terrible. I' ; m going to write my congressman. I think that' ; s awful Mrs. Harjo. Well, you have done-- WH: This year, I guess it must be about a year ago, they told me to get on that disabled social security. WN: Uh huh. WH: So, I signed up on that. WN: Did you get it? WH: I got $137. WN: A month? WH: A month. Could you live off of $137? WN: No! Well, I' ; d have to change my way of living, I tell you. Is that what you live on? WH: That' ; s all I get. WN: Well, I swear, I did not know that. WH: ' ; Course Wesley draw soldier pension. WN: Yeah. WH: Cause he' ; d been to the army. WN: Well, of course. But you earned every dime of that in the service. When did you go into the service, Wesley? WNH: Nineteen-forty--I think it was forty-one. WN: And did you have to--you served overseas? WNH: Yeah. WN: Where were you stationed? WNH: In the navy. WN: Oh. In the navy. And were you wounded then? WNH: Huh? WN: Were you wounded or anything but you get a service pension? WNH: No. When you' ; re in combat all the time, they' ; d get pretty lucky, they' ; d get wounded. WN: Yes, I' ; d say you were lucky. I remember your grandson, Larry. I had him in school. He was such a handsome boy. Ornery but handsome. I think it' ; s wonderful that you' ; ve come back here to be with your mother. WNH: Yeah. WN: You help her all the time now? WNH: Yeah. WN: She looks like she' ; s pretty agile herself. You do all your own work and everything, Mrs. Harjo? You do your own cooking? WH: No. I can' ; t. WN: You can' ; t cook. Do you cook for her, Wesley? WH: I can, I can cook, but, and I can clean the kitchen up, but I can' ; t clean no big room or things like that. WN: Yeah. Well. WH: Of course, I can' ; t get around too good. I just clean the kitchen and wash dishes. I can cook a meal. WN: Oh, that' ; s wonderful. That' ; s wonderful. How many children, grandchildren do you have? WH: Oh, about nine. WN: About nine? And how many great grandchildren? WH: Ten, eleven. WN: You all ever get together and have any-- WH: No. They won' ; t even come see me yet. WN: They won' ; t? That' ; s terrible. Well, do they live far away? WH: Well, one lives in, oh dear, not Chickasaw, but that other--Anadarko. WN: Anadarko. WH: And then Taylor had three, but I don' ; t know where they went. Tulsa, but I don' ; t where they at now. WN: Well, now, Wesley, I' ; m so glad I got your voice on. You know what I' ; m going to do for this? I' ; m going to put in the library, down here, so that people who come after us, if they want to hear Mrs. Harjo or any one of your children or grandchildren are going to want to hear you talk, and we are going to have in down at the library. But I am going to make a copy of this and give to you all so that you' ; ll have it for your family--for your family, too. I want to know, if you were going to tell your children, give your children and grandchildren any advice, what would you like to say to your grandchildren? You tell me something that you' ; d like to say to your children and your grandchildren. WH: Oh, you' ; re meaning, I would like to talk to them? WN: Yes, tell them what you want them to do after you are gone. Yeah, I want you to tell them so that when they come to listen, they will say, hey, look what my grandmother wanted me to do, and maybe they' ; ll do it. WH: Well, I wouldn' ; t know how to say that, but I don' ; t know what I would say about them. WN: What would, what do you want them to do? Tell them how you want them to act after you' ; re gone. You' ; re going to be up there looking down at them. WH: Go to church and do right and go to Sunday school or something like that. WN: Yes, that' ; s right. WH: If I pass and go on, well, they can go to church and Sunday school go to these Indian church. WN: That' ; s what I want you tell them. Go to the Indian churches and learn about their ancestors. They need to, don' ; t they? WH: Yeah. WN: Because we need to make some changes for the Indians. I really think we do. We owe you guys a lot. Yes, we really do. We came in and took your land. Did you ever feel resentful? Did you ever hate the white person for some of the things sometimes? WH: No. I don' ; t hate nobody. WN: Well, I know you don' ; t but didn' ; t you feel badly sometimes or didn' ; t you feel--you must be a wonderful Christian that' ; s all I' ; ve got to say. I would have taken one of those arrows and run it through their belly button. WH: You know I don' ; t hate white folk, and I don' ; t hate colored, and I don' ; t hate-- [Inaudible] WN: Okay, Wesley. Well, that' ; s wonderful, that' ; s wonderful. WH: Cause I don' ; t, I ain' ; t done nothing to them, and I don' ; t think they anything to me. WN: Well, that' ; s a wonderful-- WH: So I don' ; t have nothing against them. WN: That' ; s wonderful. Well, I just think that' ; s great. And I want to tell you that I appreciate-- WH: I know one white man sure hate colored people. WN: Oh, that' ; s too bad, isn' ; t it? WH: I wonder how come? WN: I don' ; t know because we all come from God, don' ; t we? WH: We all going to the same place. WN: That' ; s right. And, boy, when were-- WH: [Indecipherable] divided. WN: That' ; s right. And when were in that cemetery, nobody going to know the difference between anything. No, they really aren' ; t. I wish you' ; d sing some more for me in Indian. WH: Sing some more? WN: Uh huh. Or sing some more for me in Indian. Because I think that' ; s so wonderful. We' ; ve got a little bit left on our tape, and I want you to tell me some more in Indian. WH: (Sings in Indian). I' ; ll say three times. WN: Okay. WH: (Sings in Indian). WN: Oh, that' ; s great. Now one other thing I want you to tell me. When I was a little girl and went to the stomp dances, they always had a big pot that they had cooking something in, you know, at the stomp dances? What was in that pot? WH: Oh, they' ; d make uh--they' ; d call it the beef (ph) soup for Indian. It had corn and make that pot for soup for the Indians. WN: Alright then, what was in that pot where the boys scratched their arms and put some of that stuff on the--they took sticks and-- WH: [Indecipherable] WN: No. When they were dancing. WH: Oh. I don' ; t know. They had a certain doctor to doctor them. WN: And they put in on there. WH: Yeah. But I don' ; t-- WN: But you don' ; t know what was in it. WH: Huh uh. WN: Oh, okay. WH: I know they used that red root. WN: Red root? Can you think of anything else you used for medicine? WH: Uh, let' ; s see. What did they call that? I can' ; t recall the name of that medicine. I know what it is in Creek, but-- WN: Well, say it in Creek. What was it? WH: (Speaks Creek). WN: Okay. What else did you use for medicine? Did you use-- WH: Oh, you could use this horsemint and uh-- WN: What did that cure? WH: Well, it make you medicine, well they put that in there. Sassafras tea. WN: Where did you get the sassafras? WH: Well, you go down towards Muskogee and get it. They can dig that root and you can buy it now. You can buy that sassafras. WN: Well, I declare. I didn' ; t know that. WH: You didn' ; t? WN: No. WH: Yeah, the sell it in the store. WN: Well, can you remember anything else you used for medicine? When you had a toothache, what did you do? A toothache. WH: If a tree had lightning had hit a tree, lightning had struck a tree, and you get that splinter, like a splinter come off it, you can find a little splinter, and just pick that place where that toothache is. [Indecipherable] and that tooth will rot out. WN: You gotta be kidding--I' ; m gonna try that. WH: Yeah. I don' ; t do it now because I don' ; t have no teeth. WN: When did you lose-- WH: I guess I done, well, see the Indians had a chewing gum. It' ; s a tree grows, an Indian makes gum out of it. WN: Well, how did you get the gum out of the tree? WH: Strip that first bark off that tree and get the second bark, and then they put it in that water and beat it. And beat it fine, and then they' ; d take that and chew it. And when they chew it, that' ; d get chewing gum. But it rotten your teeth. WN: It did rot your teeth? WH: Oh, yeah. That' ; s the reason I ain' ; t got no teeth now. WN: Cause you chewed it all the time. WH: Cause we used to chew that all the time. I got three of them growing right out yonder there that tree that make that gum. WN: And what' ; s the name of that tree? WH: I don' ; t know. They just called it [indecipherable]. WN: Well, I' ; m going to have to look at that tree and see if I can figure out what it is. Did you ever use feathers, you know, for-- WH: On the head? WN: Uh huh. Never used feathers? You used ribbons on your-- WH: Yeah. You actually call that the ribbon dance. WN: The ribbon dance. And the gar dance? WH: Yeah. WN: And the buffalo dance. WH: Yeah. WN: Did you ever see any buffalo out here? WH: No. I never did use that, but I did use that ribbon dance. WN: Oh, and did your children learn to do those dances, too? WH: No. WN: They didn' ; t? Not any of them? audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0042B_Winey_Harjo.xml OHP-0042B_Winey_Harjo.xml
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Winey Harjo - Part 2
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In Part Two of Winey Harjo's 1991 interview she continues talking about their first car, speaks and sings in Creek, talks about her grandchildren and medicines they used for ailments. She also introduces her son, Wesley, and he talks about what it was like growing up in Bristow.
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OHP-0042B
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1991-03-06
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Family Histories
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Wanda Newton
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Winey Harjo
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5.4 March 1991 OHP-0042A Winey Harjo - Part 1 OHP-0042A Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Winey Harjo Wanda Newton 1:|32(14)|81(15)|108(2)|134(1)|166(4)|193(4)|231(3)|262(3)|286(9)|324(3)|346(3)|376(10)|401(7)|431(9)|460(8)|482(7)|515(5)|547(12)|563(14)|590(1)|618(15)|646(10)|679(19)|705(15)|725(10)|748(14)|764(15)|783(11)|807(5)|848(13) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0042A Harjo, Winey.mp3 Other audio 0 Family History & ; Children WN: This is Wanda Newton, and I’m out at Mrs. Harjo’s house. She has consented to talk to me. WH: [Indecipherable] in the walls. WN: Yes, they were in the wall of this old house. Now you tell me how old you are, Mrs. Harjo. Tell me your name, your full name, your Indian name, your maiden name before you got married. WH: And my married name. WN: Yeah. WH: Winey Harjo. WN: Winey Harjo. What was your name before you married Harjo? WH: I was a Hawkin. WN: A Hawkin? WH: That’s my maiden name. Winey talks all about her family history, including her parents, siblings and children. A.H. Purdy ; Barney Harjo ; children ; Creek Indian ; E.W. Simms ; family ; George Tiger ; Hawkin ; Indian Territory ; Joseph Eads ; log cabin ; M.C. Flourney ; Martha Bigpond ; Okmulgee ; Paul Harjo ; Sarah Taylor ; siblings ; Slick ; Taylor Harjo ; The Bristow Indian Territorial Enterprise ; Thomas Tiger ; Van D. Stout ; Wesley Harjo ; Wilson Harjo children ; family history ; siblings 429 Small Pox WH: No. See they all died in the old times by small pox. WN: Oh, well now in here there’s a, in Mr. Purdy’s diary here, he has a thing about a small pox camp being here in Bristow down my 2nd Street. Do you remember that when you were a little girl? WH: No. This here was out way out between here and Okemah. WN: Oh, and that’s where you got… WH: And my brother was in that small pox then. He was 10-years-old. WN: Oh my. WH: But he finally made it over. WN: And he got alright. Did he have a bunch of scars or anything? WH: No. Winey talks about her grandparents all dying of small pox, so she has little memory of them. A.H. Purdy ; Okemah ; small pox ; small pox camp small pox 498 Attending School WN: How wonderful. Oh, that’s so nice and what a nice heirloom for your family. That’s great. Well now, can you remember anything about when you were a little girl? Where did you got to school? Did you go to school? WH: I went to…I didn’t go to school very much. First school I went to, I went to Mills Chapel. You remember that? WN: Yes, I remember that. WH: But I didn’t go there very much because, see, after my step daddy died, we had to work in the fields. WN: Oh, of course. Winey's first memory of attending a school was Mills Chapel School. Her father passed away, so she didn't get to attend school much, because she had to work in the fields. Conneisenney Tiger ; cotton fields ; Fanny Tiger ; Mills Chapel School ; school school ; working in the fields 616 Stage Coach & ; Town Life WN: Oh, I didn’t even know that was there. Now another thing I read about in Mr. Purdy’s diary was a stage coach trail. Do you remember the stage coach coming to Bristow? WH: No. I don’t remember that cause we didn’t have no way of comin’ to Bristow, only in a wagon. WN: In a wagon, you came. WH: We only come when we had to come after maybe a little groceries or something. WN: Money was hard to come by then, wasn’t it? WH: We had to make our own living. Winey talks about not getting to town too often because her family was so poor but does remember coming to town in a wagon to occasionally pick up groceries. poor ; stage coach ; stage coach trail ; wagon stage coach ; town life 656 Home Life WN: Well let me ask you, did you do your own sewing? Did you make your own clothes and everything? WH: Oh yeah. We had to sew with our fingers, hand. WN: My word, hand sewing. WH: Yeah, because we didn’t know nothing about no machine. WN: Did your mother quilt? Do you all make quilts and everything like that? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you remember some favorite Indian recipes, Mrs. Harjo? Can you… WH: Indian what? WN: Recipes that your mother made? Winey's family made their own clothes, gathered food and made their own flour by pounding corn. flour ; free range ; gathering ; pounding corn ; quilting ; sewing home life 761 Dawes Commission WN: Well, now as that your allotment you were living on? WH: No. That was my step-father’s allotment. WN: I see. And did you all sign up with the Dawes Commission and get your Indian rights? WH: Yes. In 1907. That’s when all Creek Indians had to sign and get an allotment. WN: Oh, that was too bad, wasn’t it? WH: That’s when Bristow come to [indecipherable] but it come to Bristow, Oklahoma. Winey's family lived on her step-father's allotment. allotment ; Creek Indians ; Dawes Commission 804 Bristow Memories WN: Well, you remember… WH: I remember when Bristow didn’t have any streets. WN: You can? WH: Just mud. If you go there you had to walk in the mud and go in the stores. There was one street they come, one store come in there was S.T. Wolfe. You remember him? WN: S.T. Wolfe, yes I remember the Wolfe name. WH: He had a big store right there across where the bank is now. WN: Oh, on Sixth Street, you mean? WH: Yeah. And then Stone Hardware. Winey talks about some of her early Bristow memories. A.H. Purdy ; cotton gin ; dirt streets ; Joe Abraham ; John Bishop ; S.T. Wolfe ; Stone Hardware Bristow Memories 954 Church Life & ; Husband WN: Well, I don’t know either. Well, now tell me about your husband just a little bit. Where did you meet him? How did you meet him? WH: Oh, I meet him in church. WN: Which church did you go to? WH: That Indian church right there now. WN: Oh, right down here, Mutteloke? WH: That church was built there in 1901. WN: It was? WH: That’s where he come in there and, of course, he was young, but I was young, too. Winey talks about meeting her husband at church and marrying him in Tulsa. church ; husband ; Indian church ; Mutteloke ; Tulsa church life ; husband 1002 Indian Games WN: Oh, I see. Well, now let me ask you, when you were a young girl, were they still doing green corn dances and… WH: Yeah. WN: And Indian dances. I remember I went to some up by Kellyville, and they had turtle shells, and I bet you were one of the dancers. WH: I danced with shell. WN: You danced with shell? WH: And I played the Indian ball game, a stick ball game. WN: Oh, you did stuff like that? I didn’t know girls played that. WH: Yeah. Winey talks about the different Indian games they played when they were young. green corn dance ; Indian dance ; Indian games ; Kellyville ; stick ball game Indian games 1069 Hunting WH: No. We didn’t know nothing about that when we were young cause we’d get out and hunt and kill rabbits and squirrels. WN: Did you kill rabbits and squirrels, too? WH: Sure. WN: With a gun? WH: No, with a bow and arrow. We didn’t kill no squirrels with no gun. Didn’t shoot no rabbits with no gun either. We’d get on horses and we had a bunch of dogs and when the dogs get after ‘em while we’d follow them and, you know, they’d round him up [indecipherable] we’d catch ‘em and we’d kill five or six rabbits. And we’d dress ‘em, and we had a smoke house built just for the purpose of that and we’d put ‘em all in there and smoke it. Winey hunted rabbits and squirrels with a bow and arrow and fished in Sand Creek. bow and arrow ; hunting ; Sand Creek ; smoke house hunting ; Sand Creek 1205 Favorite Toys & ; Clothing WN: Well, I’m glad they are coming back. I wished we could dig the and out of Sand Creek. Now let’s back up to when you were a little girl. Did you have a favorite toy, Mrs. Harjo? WH: No. We had dolls, but we had to make our own dolls. WN: Oh, you made your own…what’d you make them out of, rags? WH: We made them with a cobb. WN: Oh, out of a corn cobb? Well, did you do Indian bead work, too, or just ribbons or what did you do? WH: No. Didn’t do that cause we didn’t have no money to buy nothing like that. Winey's family had to make their own corn cobb dolls. clothing ; corn cobb ; dolls ; toys clothing ; toys 1258 Indian Language WN: Oh, I know. Well let me ask you, could all of the children read some? Could you read or did you all just speak the Indian language. WH: Well, I spoke Indian language when I was young. WN: Uh huh. WH: And then, cause my daddy didn’t, I mean my step-daddy didn’t speak no Indian language. Well, we had to turn around and speak English. And then when he passed away… WN: What nationality was he? Do you remember? WH: Uh, he was, what you call, oh a Freedman. WN: Oh, he was a Freedman? Oh, I see. Winey spoke Indian when she was young but had to learn English when her mother married her step-father because he did not speak Creek. Freedmen ; Indian language Indian language 1316 Polio WH: Yeah, and after he died, well, I took them polio when I was four-years-old. WN: You did? WH: I had the polio. You know like they have… WN: Yeah like you were cripple? WH: No, I didn’t get cripple. WN: Well, how wonderful. WH: And so, we was in, you know what a [indecipherable]. WN: Yeah. Winey developed polio as a child and claims she was cured by a medicine man. Daniel Tiger ; medicine man ; polio polio 1439 First Home WN: Well, now let me ask you, after you were married, where did you build your first house? You went to Tulsa, you said? WH: I lived with my mother when I first married. That’s where this oldest boy, that’s where he born. WN: Oh, Wesley was born there with your mother? WH: And he was just beginning to crawl, and we got burned up. And then after that, my mother went to live my older sister, cause she was by herself, you know, so me and my husband, we had to buy a tent. We bought it from Mr. Purdy. Winey, her husband and Wesley lived with her mother until there was a house fire, and then they had to live in a tent. A.H. Purdy ; first home ; house fire ; tent first home 1505 Trading & ; Planting Cotton WH: We lived in there and then we [indecipherable]. We planted their cotton. And then we make a little money and then we traded the Slyman, he had a grocery store, right there on the corner there. WN: On Fifth Street, wasn’t it? WH: Yeah. And then after that we’d sale that cotton and pay that grocery bill. That’s the way they used to pay they grocery bill. WN: You’d charge all winter long and then pay it when you got your crop. WH: And John Bishop was the same way. Winey talks about planting cotton and trading for the goods they needed to live. cotton ; cotton gin ; John Bishop ; Tom Slick ; trading cotton ; trading 1726 Christmas WN: I’ll be darned. Well if you think of her name, you let me know. Let me ask you, how did you all celebrate Christmas? WH: Well, we’d just have a dinner, just, well, not exactly like you have it now, but we’d have a dinner, and of course a… WN: Did you have a tree? WH: A tree? WN: Uh huh. WH: Christmas tree? WN: No Christmas tree, just had a dinner. WH: That’s all. And see my step-dad would go out and shoot a wild turkey. WN: But you didn’t exchange presents? WH: Huh uh. Winey's family celebrated Christmas by having a special dinner of wild turkey. Christmas ; dinner ; presents ; wild turkey Christmas 1779 First Automobile WN: Okay. Alright. Can you remember the first automobile you ever saw? WH: Yeah. WN: Where was it? WH: T-Model. And the first car we bought from George Carman. WN: Oh, I remember Mr. Carman. WH: You do? WN: Yeah. WH: He had a big storage house right there on 11th Street there. Winey bought her first car, a Model-T, from George Carman. automobile ; George Carman ; Model-T first automobile MP3 In Part One of Winey Harjo's 1990 interview, she talks about her family history, having small pox as a child, attending school some, working in the fields, and what it was like to live in a time with no money. Part One WN: This is Wanda Newton, and I' ; m out at Mrs. Harjo' ; s house. She has consented to talk to me. WH: [Indecipherable] in the walls. WN: Yes, they were in the wall of this old house. Now you tell me how old you are, Mrs. Harjo. Tell me your name, your full name, your Indian name, your maiden name before you got married. WH: And my married name. WN: Yeah. WH: Winey Harjo. WN: Winey Harjo. What was your name before you married Harjo? WH: I was a Hawkin. WN: A Hawkin? WH: That' ; s my maiden name. WN: Okay. Tell me a little bit about your mother and father. WH: Well, now, I don' ; t know my father because he died when I was three-years-old. WN: And you were three? WH: Uh huh. I don' ; t remember him, but my mother, her name was Sarah Taylor. WN: And were they both Indian? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you know what tribe? WH: Creek. WN: Creek tribe. And where did they come from? Do you know? WH: Oh, just right around Slick and Okmulgee. WN: And, and what did your father do? WH: What' ; d he do? WN: Uh huh. WH: I don' ; t remember cause I wasn' ; t old enough. WN: You weren' ; t old enough to remember at all. And your mother didn' ; t tell you what he did or anything? WH: No, no. WN: How many brothers and sisters did you have? WH: I had, I had uh two full sisters as Hawkin. WN: Two full sisters of Hawkin. WH: Uh huh. And then I had a half-sister was a Tiger. WN: Oh, are you kin to Ms. Johnson (ph)? WH: No, Martha Bigpond. WN: Oh, Martha Bigpond. WH: Yeah. That was my half-sister. WN: Oh. WH: She was a Tiger. WN: She was a Tiger. WH: Yeah, and then I had a brother was George Tiger and they were brothers, but they were half brothers to me, both of them. WN: Oh. Now I read, do you know a Thomas Tiger? Did you know a-- WH: Creek. WN: He was a Creek? Thomas Tiger? Was he kin to you? WH: Yeah. WN: Well, I read about him. WH: You did? WN: Yeah, in an early newspaper. I' ; m going to turn this radio off. WH: Yeah, turn it down. WN: Alright. Let me turn it down. Just a minute. WH: Turn it to the west. I mean-- [Inaudible] WN: Here it says, this was a newspaper. Let me see where is it. I found about Thomas Tiger. Okay. This was in 1901. This was in the newspaper, The Bristow Indian Territorial Enterprise. WH: Oh yeah. I remember. WN: Okay, it says-- WH: Bristow. They didn' ; t leave Oklahoma. WN: No, it wasn' ; t Oklahoma then. But Mr. Purdy, I don' ; t know if you remember a Mr. Purdy or not? WH: Purdy? WN: Purdy, uh huh. WH: I sure do. WN: Well, he wrote this. He wrote all of this stuff from a book, and he said, I mean he just wrote it down. This is March the 29th. " ; The Snake Indians which camp is near Okmulgee, and they want the whites to leave from this part of the Indian Territory. So, today, they sent in a horseman by the name of Thomas Tiger." ; WH: I know him. WN: " ; And he delivered a notice to A.H. Purdy, M.C. Flourney, Van D. Stout, P.D. Stout, E.W. Simms, and Joseph Eads and gave them four days to leave along with all that are living in Bristow." ; They wanted everybody out of Bristow. WH: Yeah. WN: Ah, so, and I can see why they wanted everybody out of Bristow. But, now, was Thomas kin to you? WH: Well, Thomas was a half-brother to Martha Bigpond. That' ; s my half-sister. WN: Oh. WH: He was a half-brother to her. WN: And where did you live, Mrs. Harjo, when you were in this area? WH: Right around Bristow, Slick. WN: In that area, there? WH: Yeah. And then I just landed right here in Bristow. WN: Well, did you live in a log cabin or a sod house? WH: Yeah. WN: You lived in a log cabin? WH: Yeah. And we got burned out. WN: Oh you did? Well, did your stove catch on fire or what happened? WH: Yeah. We lived in a log house and they made the chimney with logs, you see, and there was fire in there and cook. And it caught a fire. WN: How old were you? About how old were you? WH: I was about uh, well, I was married in 1911, and that' ; s when it burned down. I had one boy, baby boy then. WN: You had one baby boy. WH: And that' ; s Wesley. WN: Oh, that' ; s Wesley, is that Wesley? Oh, and how many children did you have? WH: I had six boys and three girls. Oh yeah. WN: Six boys and three girls. Can you name them? Will you name them for me? WH: Yeah. First one is Wesley out there, Wesley Harjo. Wilson Harjo, you know him. WN: Yes, I remember Wilson well. WH: Well, then the next one was Taylor Harjo. WN: I remember Taylor. WH: And then the fourth one was, oh, Paul Harjo. WN: I remember Paul. WH: And then the last one was Barney Harjo. WN: Barney. I remember Barney. All of your boys were so handsome, I thought. WH: Yeah. WN: Now name your girls for me. WH: One was named Lucy Hawkin. And one was named Fanny Hawkin, but she married a Tiger. But Lucy Hawkin didn' ; t marry. She died before. She was just 18-years-old. (It is believed Mrs. Harjo is speaking of her sisters, here, and not her daughters.) WN: Oh, what happened to her? WH: I think she got burned some way. WN: Oh, that' ; s too bad. WH: I was just about six-years-old then. WN: My word. WH: Yeah. And I had a half-brother named Willie Vance (ph) and he died, too. He died after my mother passed away, he passed away. WN: How old was your mother when she died? WH: She was about 90-years-old. WN: And what was her name? WH: Sarah Taylor (ph). That was her maiden name. WN: That was her maiden name. WH: But she went by Tiger. WN: She went by Tiger. Let me ask you, do you remember your grandmother at all or your grandparents at all? WH: No. See they all died in the old times by small pox. WN: Oh, well now in here there' ; s a, in Mr. Purdy' ; s diary here, he has a thing about a small pox camp being here in Bristow down my 2nd Street. Do you remember that when you were a little girl? WH: No. This here was out way out between here and Okemah. WN: Oh, and that' ; s where you got-- WH: And my brother was in that small pox then. He was 10-years-old. WN: Oh my. WH: But he finally made it over. WN: And he got alright. Did he have a bunch of scars or anything? WH: No. WN: My, he was lucky, wasn' ; t he? WH: And I got the pot that they made tea for them that had the small pox. WN: You still have that pot? How wonderful. WH: [Indecipherable] wash pot. WN: How wonderful. Oh, that' ; s so nice and what a nice heirloom for your family. That' ; s great. Well now, can you remember anything about when you were a little girl? Where did you got to school? Did you go to school? WH: I went to--I didn' ; t go to school very much. First school I went to, I went to Mills Chapel. You remember that? WN: Yes, I remember that. WH: But I didn' ; t go there very much because, see, after my step daddy died, we had to work in the fields. WN: Oh, of course. WH: And we had to work and make corn and peas and potatoes and make a living. WN: And your brothers and sisters worked in the fields, too? WH: Yeah. WN: Oh that' ; s-- WH: My sister just passed away here about, I guess it was about seven years ago. She was older than I was. WN: Oh, my stars. That' ; s fantastic. WH: Her name was Fanny Tiger WN: Fanny Tiger. I remember that name, Fanny Tiger. WH: Yeah. WN: Well, do you--I remember Grandmother Conneisenney, that used to stand on--Grandmother Conneisenney? Do you remember Ms. Conneisenney? WH: Senney? WN: Conneisenney? Was she Martha--I remember her standing on the street, and she had a little long dress on, and she wore a little kerchief around her head, and I thought she was the cutest little woman I ever saw. WH: Her name was what? WN: Conneisenney. WH: Senney Tiger (ph). WN: Yeah, yeah. WH: Senney Tiger (ph). WN: Senney Tiger (ph). That was it. WH: I remember her. That was--Tom Tiger married her then. [Indecipherable] WN: Oh really? WH: Yeah, but she passed away. WN: Yes. Yes. WH: And so uh he didn' ; t get married no more ' ; till, well he did, but he went down toward, uh, way down toward uh, what' ; s it called? Charlie Hill. (ph) WN: Oh, I didn' ; t even know that was there. Now another thing I read about in Mr. Purdy' ; s diary was a stage coach trail. Do you remember the stage coach coming to Bristow? WH: No. I don' ; t remember that cause we didn' ; t have no way of comin' ; to Bristow, only in a wagon. WN: In a wagon, you came. WH: We only come when we had to come after maybe a little groceries or something. WN: Money was hard to come by then, wasn' ; t it? WH: We had to make our own living. WN: Well let me ask you, did you do your own sewing? Did you make your own clothes and everything? WH: Oh yeah. We had to sew with our fingers, hand. WN: My word, hand sewing. WH: Yeah, because we didn' ; t know nothing about no machine. WN: Did your mother quilt? Do you all make quilts and everything like that? WH: Yeah. WN: Do you remember some favorite Indian recipes, Mrs. Harjo? Can you-- WH: Indian what? WN: Recipes that your mother made? WH: Huh uh. She didn' ; t make none of them [indecipherable] if it did, it burned up. WN: Oh, I see. Well now, let me ask you, tell me what you all cooked back then. How did you cook and what did you cook? WH: When we was young? WN: Uh huh. WH: [Indecipherable] well we had one of them, and we had to, we had to corn, pound in that WN: You pounded your corn in that? WH: And made bread cause see they didn' ; t sell no flour then way back in 1901. WN: And you pounded your own corn? WH: We had to pound that corn and make our own bread. WN: Well, what about your meat, did you--were there deer or did you raise cattle? WH: No. We' ; d just eat--we' ; d just go out and catch rabbits and squirrels. WN: And gathered opossum grapes, you gathered grapes and wild onions? WH: Yeah. Wild onions. That' ; s all we lived on. We didn' ; t raise no hog cause I don' ; t remember anybody having any hogs. Course they do the free range. WN: Yes. Oh, it was. No fences? WH: No. WN: Well, now as that your allotment you were living on? WH: No. That was my step-father' ; s allotment. WN: I see. And did you all sign up with the Dawes Commission and get your Indian rights? WH: Yes. In 1907. That' ; s when all Creek Indians had to sign and get an allotment. WN: Oh, that was too bad, wasn' ; t it? WH: That' ; s when Bristow come to [indecipherable] but it come to Bristow, Oklahoma. WN: Well, you remember-- WH: I remember when Bristow didn' ; t have any streets. WN: You can? WH: Just mud. If you go there you had to walk in the mud and go in the stores. There was one street they come, one store come in there was S.T. Wolfe. You remember him? WN: S.T. Wolfe, yes I remember the Wolfe name. WH: He had a big store right there across where the bank is now. WN: Oh, on Sixth Street, you mean? WH: Yeah. And then Stone Hardware. WN: Yes. WH: That Stone Hardware still there. WN: Yes, it is. WH: Well, that was, well it was a hardware store. WN: And he used to sell caskets and everything, didn' ; t he? WH: Yeah. WN: I read about it. I don' ; t remember that, but I read about it. WH: Well, they had one jewelry store, and I can' ; t remember that name. And then they had one little store back along there where Ms. Stanford (ph) is-- WN: Oh really? WH: Had a sell, like, glasses and plates. WN: Kind of like a dime store? Do you remember when some of the early merchants came in? They always say Joe Abraham came in with a little cart and sell things off of the cart. WH: Yeah. WN: Let' ; s back up to when you were-- WH: The Slymans? WN: Yes, the Slymans. Well, you remember a lot of those. WH: Oh, and John Bishop is over the [indecipherable]. He ought to know who it was. WN: Well, yes, John should, but I can' ; t get him to tell me too much. WH: He' ; s 90. I' ; m 95. And he' ; s two years older than [indecipherable]. WN: He is? Well you know he doesn' ; t go down to the cotton gin anymore. WH: He don' ; t go to the office no more? WN: No, because he' ; s gotten so, he falls over. And so they have a--he stays home and they have a lady that stays with him all the time now. But, yes, he' ; s interesting. WH: And I know Purdy. WN: You knew Mr. Purdy? WH: Yeah, and his son. I don' ; t remember his last name. I don' ; t remember what was his name but he had went to California. I don' ; t know whether he' ; s still living or not. WN: Well, I don' ; t know either. Well, now tell me about your husband just a little bit. Where did you meet him? How did you meet him? WH: Oh, I meet him in church. WN: Which church did you go to? WH: That Indian church right there now. WN: Oh, right down here, Mutteloke? WH: That church was built there in 1901. WN: It was? WH: That' ; s where he come in there and, of course, he was young, but I was young, too. WN: And he was handsome, wasn' ; t he? WH: Yeah, and he attended that church, and I already belonged to that church. And so that' ; s where I met him. And I just married him in 1911. WN: And you married him in that church there? WH: No, I married him up in Tulsy (Tulsa). WN: Oh, I see. Well, now let me ask you, when you were a young girl, were they still doing green corn dances and-- WH: Yeah. WN: And Indian dances. I remember I went to some up by Kellyville, and they had turtle shells, and I bet you were one of the dancers. WH: I danced with shell. WN: You danced with shell? WH: And I played the Indian ball game, a stick ball game. WN: Oh, you did stuff like that? I didn' ; t know girls played that. WH: Yeah. WN: Oh, I think that' ; s wonderful. I bet you were good, weren' ; t you? WH: Well, yeah, we was. The way they had the men put up that Indian ball game, they put up a big pole and put a cow head on that. WN: A cow head? WH: Yeah, and if you hit that cow head in the center, you made a score. WN: Oh my word. With that little ball? WH: Little round ball. WN: Well, did you ever score? WH: No. We didn' ; t know nothing about that when we were young cause we' ; d get out and hunt and kill rabbits and squirrels. WN: Did you kill rabbits and squirrels, too? WH: Sure. WN: With a gun? WH: No, with a bow and arrow. We didn' ; t kill no squirrels with no gun. Didn' ; t shoot no rabbits with no gun either. We' ; d get on horses and we had a bunch of dogs and when the dogs get after ' ; em while we' ; d follow them and, you know, they' ; d round him up [indecipherable] we' ; d catch ' ; em and we' ; d kill five or six rabbits. And we' ; d dress ' ; em, and we had a smoke house built just for the purpose of that and we' ; d put ' ; em all in there and smoke it. WN: And dry them and have them for the winter. How wonderful. Was hard work, too, wasn' ; t it? WH: Hard work, yeah. Plow corn, grate corn, drive the wagon, ride horse, swim. WN: Well, who taught you to swim? WH: Nobody. Nobody was there. Just go and get in the water and run it yourself. WN: Oh, that' ; s wonderful. I want you to tell me, how the Sand Creek out here, it hasn' ; t always been like that, full of sand, has it? Sand Creek, didn' ; t it used to be pretty and clear? My grandmother-- WH: Yeah. And you could fish in that, too. There was fish in there. WN: Oh really? How deep was it about? WH: Oh, I guess maybe some places was like 20 foot, along like that. WN: You gotta be kidding. WH: Yeah. But now it ain' ; t nothing. WN: No, it is nothing. Well, there used to be deer in here, too, wasn' ; t there? WH: Yeah. Why I' ; d have three or four deers come here right this year, this fall. WN: Oh, you did? Right in this area? WH: Yeah. I don' ; t know where they come from. WN: But they' ; re here. WH: Somewhere. WN: Well, I' ; m glad they are coming back. I wished we could dig the and out of Sand Creek. Now let' ; s back up to when you were a little girl. Did you have a favorite toy, Mrs. Harjo? WH: No. We had dolls, but we had to make our own dolls. WN: Oh, you made your own--what' ; d you make them out of, rags? WH: We made them with a cobb. WN: Oh, out of a corn cobb? Well, did you do Indian bead work, too, or just ribbons or what did you do? WH: No. Didn' ; t do that cause we didn' ; t have no money to buy nothing like that. WN: But you wore long dresses? WH: Yeah. WN: And what were your favorite Sunday shoes and your favorite Sunday dress? Can you remember-- WH: We didn' ; t go to church at that time. There was no church then. WN: Oh, there was no church then? WH: The churches begin right along in 1902. That' ; s when the Indian church begin and different churches. [Indecipherable] there' ; s a lot of Indian churches now. WN: Oh, I know. Well let me ask you, could all of the children read some? Could you read or did you all just speak the Indian language. WH: Well, I spoke Indian language when I was young. WN: Uh huh. WH: And then, cause my daddy didn' ; t, I mean my step-daddy didn' ; t speak no Indian language. Well, we had to turn around and speak English. And then when he passed away-- WN: What nationality was he? Do you remember? WH: Uh, he was, what you call, oh a Freedman. WN: Oh, he was a Freedman? Oh, I see. WH: Part Indian and part colored. WN: I see. WH: Because you couldn' ; t tell him from a colored. WN: Well, I' ; ll be darned. A Freedman. WH: Yeah, and after he died, well, I took them polio when I was four-years-old. WN: You did? WH: I had the polio. You know like they have-- WN: Yeah like you were cripple? WH: No, I didn' ; t get cripple. WN: Well, how wonderful. WH: And so, we was in, you know what a [indecipherable]. WN: Yeah. WH: Well, we was living right there on that section [indecipherable] goes on down there by William Daniel (ph) old house. WN: And you got polio then? WH: Yeah. WN: Did anybody else in your family get it? WH: Nuh-uh. WN: You were the only one. WH: And then when mom married this Tiger man, that' ; s my half-sister, that was her daddy. Daniel Tiger. WN: Daniel Tiger. WH: He was a medicine man. And so my mother married him, well then I still had that polio then. I was crippled. I wasn' ; t crippled, but I just couldn' ; t get up. They just had to pat me and sit me down and lay me down. And so when she married him, we moved over there in his home, and he lived in a big house. He was a carpenter. WN: Well, he must have been. WH: Yeah, and so we moved over there and he doctored me, and I got over that polio and it didn' ; t leave me crippled or nothing. WN: Well, he must have been a wonderful medicine man. WH: There used to be a lot of them but they ain' ; t a lot now. WN: Well, they were a lot cheaper, weren' ; t they? WH: Oh yeah. You didn' ; t have to pay for the medicine like we do these doctors here. Give them a chicken or if you got uh anything you don' ; t want, just give it to him. WN: And that was his pay? WH: Yeah. I don' ; t know if they do that now or not. WN: No, I don' ; t think you could give a potato to a doctor anymore. You gotta give your arm and your leg and your purse, too. WH: Yeah. WN: Well, now let me ask you, after you were married, where did you build your first house? You went to Tulsa, you said? WH: I lived with my mother when I first married. That' ; s where this oldest boy, that' ; s where he born. WN: Oh, Wesley was born there with your mother? WH: And he was just beginning to crawl, and we got burned up. And then after that, my mother went to live my older sister, cause she was by herself, you know, so me and my husband, we had to buy a tent. We bought it from Mr. Purdy. WN: Oh, you did? WH: And lived in a tent. We lived in a tent. [Indecipherable] WN: Oh, yes, I do know how those tents used to be. WH: Well, we lived in that and then the next year, well we-- WN: How did you keep warm in the winter time? WH: It didn' ; t get cold like it do now. WN: It didn' ; t? And you lived-- WH: We lived in there and then we [indecipherable]. We planted their cotton. And then we make a little money and then we traded the Slyman, he had a grocery store, right there on the corner there. WN: On Fifth Street, wasn' ; t it? WH: Yeah. And then after that we' ; d sale that cotton and pay that grocery bill. That' ; s the way they used to pay they grocery bill. WN: You' ; d charge all winter long and then pay it when you got your crop. WH: And John Bishop was the same way. WN: Yes, he did. That' ; s what he told me one time. I said, " ; John do you ever remember a depression and being poor?" ; He said, " ; I never was poor." ; He said, " ; I always could get money from some place." ; WH: And he used to, he had a, he first had a store right there as you going out south there. You know where there' ; s a grocery store on this side, well, his store was on that side. And he had that store there, and he' ; d feed people, you know, was selling cotton. They' ; d sell the cotton and come there pay their grocery bill. John Bishop had a big gin, you know, down there [indecipherable]. WN: Oh, yes, yeah. WH: Well, he had a big gin there run by a cotton. WN: Well, he was a wealthy man, wasn' ; t he? WH: I don' ; t know where it come from. WN: Well, I' ; ll be darn. I don' ; t know where he came from, too. I think he told me one time, but I' ; ve forgotten. He said he was with, he said I made money from Tom Slick in Slick. He said I sold Tom Slick groceries, and I got rich. Let me ask you, did your mother leave you anything special that--any kind of--you said your mother left you a tea kettle. Did she leave you any other Indian things or your families? Did your mother leave you a pin or a necklace or anything? She left you something when she died? Your mother? WH: Oh, my mother? WN: Yeah. She didn' ; t leave you anything? WH: No, she didn' ; t have anything. WN: She didn' ; t have anything. Did they write wills back then? You know, like a--you didn' ; t have wills? WH: No. WN: No wills. You just gave it to them, didn' ; t you? WH: Yeah. And I know the woman who worked for Purdy. Purdy had an office right across the street there from, you know where Anthony store used to be? WN: Yes, yes. WH: Well, his office was right on that side. WN: It was on that side? WH: Yeah. And I know that woman used to--but I don' ; t know her name. And she' ; s still living here in town. WN: Oh, she is? WH: Yeah, I seen her one day down at the grocery store and I talked to her. WN: Well, I wished you' ; d think who she is so I could talk to her, too. WH: I guess she' ; s still living. I hadn' ; t seen her anymore. WN: I' ; ll be darned. Well if you think of her name, you let me know. Let me ask you, how did you all celebrate Christmas? WH: Well, we' ; d just have a dinner, just, well, not exactly like you have it now, but we' ; d have a dinner, and of course a-- WN: Did you have a tree? WH: A tree? WN: Uh huh. WH: Christmas tree? WN: No Christmas tree, just had a dinner. WH: That' ; s all. And see my step-dad would go out and shoot a wild turkey. WN: But you didn' ; t exchange presents? WH: Huh uh. WN: Didn' ; t exchange presents? WH: No. We didn' ; t. WN: Well, now can you tell me about some of the early Indian customs, like some of the things that the Indians did that the white people didn' ; t do. WH: Well, I don' ; t know. I don' ; t remember. WN: Okay. Alright. Can you remember the first automobile you ever saw? WH: Yeah. WN: Where was it? WH: T-Model. And the first car we bought from George Carman. WN: Oh, I remember Mr. Carman. WH: You do? WN: Yeah. WH: He had a big storage house right there on 11th Street there. And that' ; s where he-- audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0042A_Winey_Harjo.xml OHP-0042A_Winey_Harjo.xml
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Winey Harjo - Part 1
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In Part One of Winey Harjo's 1991 interview, she talks about her family history, having small pox as a child, attending school some, working in the fields, and what it was like to live in a time with no money.
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OHP-0042A
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1991-03
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Ed Cadenhead
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Wendell List
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5.4 July 16, 1979 OHP-0044B Wendell List OHP-0044B 0:00-39:35 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Wendell List Ed Cadenhead 1:|29(9)|50(12)|62(9)|79(4)|90(13)|100(4)|124(9)|145(11)|155(17)|167(15)|176(9)|191(5)|207(7)|223(5)|242(6)|256(2)|273(2)|288(1)|307(5)|334(8)|348(8)|361(1)|373(8)|392(8)|405(1)|420(5)|430(2)|440(9)|452(1)|466(11)|481(7)|512(1)|544(2)|565(8)|578(11)|592(11)|605(3)|617(13)|634(11) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0044B List, Wendell.mp3 Other audio 0 Moved from Tulsa EC: Let's see. Now your name is Wendell List, right? WL: Wendell O list. EC: Wendell O List. And this is July the 16th. Why don't we just start then. Tell me how you happen to come to Bristow. WL: Well, my dad and I bought the Ford agency here in 1923, and we took possession of it the 1st of October, 1923. EC: Okay. Where'd you come from? WL: We came from Tulsa. EC: Okay. Wendell moved to Bristow from Tulsa after he graduated to help his dad run the Ford Agency. Ford Agency ; Tulsa Ford Agency ; Tulsa 46 Tulsa Race Riots And that was the, the year that they had the race riots. EC: That's right. Okay. WL: And I, the, the race riot has become more and more wild and wicked. Ever since that time. I was all through the whole thing. EC: Oh, were you? WL: Yes. EC: Well, that didn't have much to do with Bristow, but tell me what you do know about it. I've heard some of those conflicting stories. WL: Well, the latest story I've heard was that there was 39 people killed in the Tulsa race riots, and I can almost guarantee that there was only three. Wendell talks about witnessing the events that occurred during the Tulsa Race Riots in 1921. Brady Theater ; Greenwood ; McNulty Park ; Palace Clothiers ; Paul Jankowsky ; Standpipe Hill ; Tulsa Central High School ; Tulsa Race Riot, Tulsa, Okla., 1921 Tulsa Race Riot, Tulsa, Okla., 1921 540 Acquiring the Ford Agency EC: Well, getting back to Bristow there. How did you, your father, happen to pick Bristow? Was it just because the agency was available or was there some other… WL: No, actually, an aunt of mine, I got a call. My aunt's [indecipherable], Mr. EM Vanderslice (ph) was a Ford dealer in Tulsa, the only Ford dealer they had at that time. He also owned Ford agencies in Claremore and Pawhuska and Claremore. And I believe another one or two at that time you could, yeah, you [indecipherable]. And he also had the Ford Tractor Agency for area. And so he got killed in an accident in a freight yard. Wendell talks about moving to Bristow to partner with his dad to run the Ford Agency in October 1923. Claremore ; EM Vanderslice ; Ford ; Harrisonville (Mo.) ; Pawhuska ; Tulsa Central High School Ford Agency 674 Oil Boom EC: Was the oil boom still on in Bristow? WL: That place the oil boom is pretty well over by that time, however, most of the oil field work was still being carried on with teams. And they had these big groups of people who were [indecipherable]. They had like that type work and they had a lot of cases of photos here. Can't remember, I can't remember his name right offhand this little [indecipherable], you know, to remember. Wendell remembers the oil boom coming to an end around the time he moved to Bristow. oil boom oil boom 714 Wrestling WL: But he was quite a well-known fellow and there was a fellow here named Williams. It was a [indecipherable], and he was also a wrestler and they had professional wrestling in Bristow at the time. And most of the wrestling was [indecipherable] on at a building, which is now the J& ; J Cafe down on south main. EC: Yeah. Right. WL: And then they also had some of their, their wrestling matches in the theaters. The old Walmur Theater is where the Community State is now located. And at that time, why they were all silent movies Wendell remembers there being professional wrestling in Bristow. J& ; J Cafe ; professional wrestling ; Walmur Theater 755 Movie Theaters and Entertainment EC: That's the, I'm gonna ask you. I don't know for sure when, which movie started. I've heard of the Walmur . I've heard of the Princess, the Star, and I don't know which one. WL: They were all here as I remember. I believe they were all here at the time that I was here. And then the the Walmur Theater had vaudeville quite a bit of the time. And they had regular vaudeville shows came in here. And then they had these touring shows came through. EC: You were still young enough. Were you married by then? WL: No, I, I was. EC: Okay. You were young enough and single. What did a single young man do in Bristow for entertainment or, Wendell talks about the various movie theaters around Bristow and the things they did for entertainment, such as swimming at Cole's Park. Cole's Park ; Joe Orr ; Laurel Hotel ; Louie Meyer ; Princess Theater ; Sapulpa ; silent movies ; Star Theater ; swimming ; vaudeville ; Walmur Theater entertainment ; movie theaters 940 The Depression EC: Right. What about oh, I guess jumping ahead a little bit, but what effect did the Depression have on Bristow? WL: As far as we were concerned, we never did notice it too much. The [indecipherable] business fell off and everybody, everybody came tightening their belts and all that sort of thing. But actually, most of us was somewhat of a primitive type and the Depression didn't hurt us too much. Of course there was lot people, [indecipherable]. And we had to do what they called their soup lines with the merchants around town. Wendell remembers the Depression as not having too great of an effect on him. He did say merchants would get together and provide soup in soup lines since there was no public assistance at that time. public assistance ; soup lines ; The Depression The Depression 1000 Radio Station EC: Backing up a little. You hear when the radio station was over here? WL: Oh, yes. Yes. Ed Rollestone, [indecipherable] and previous to him though they had a radio station right down here in the old Chevrolet building they had up here on the second floor, this building right down here. EC: They had one first. WL: Yes, they had one first, a small one. And I don't know whether Ed was financially involved in that one. I'd rather think not, but it was in the second floor of the three-story building right here at Mercer's. Wendell recalls the radio station being in town, KFRU. Boyd Delano ; Chevrolet building ; Ed Rollestone ; glass plant ; Jimmy Wilson & ; His Catfish Band ; KFRU ; KVOO ; Mercer's ; Merritt Delano ; radio station KFRU ; KVOO ; radio station 1171 First Radio WL: I had the first portable radio in this town. EC: Did you? WL: In an automobile? At that time, all of the receivers were these high price, expensive [indecipherable] or I forget the name of the other one, but they were very complicated. [Indecipherable] had about a dozen dials on them. And you got more static than you got sound. And they were tremendously difficult to operate. Oh, almost took an engineer just to operate one. They had a big harness set up on top and, but all, all of us kids found out that the that you could make a crystal set. Now, I don't know whether you ever saw a crystal. Wendell tells about having the first radio in an automobile in Bristow. Ford Coupe ; radio radio 1340 World War II EC: Okay. Well that, that's interesting. What effect was any particular effect of World War II on Bristow, other than just what you'd expect? WL: Well, they made a great deal more ceremony out of out of the war than we have in any subsequent time. At that time, whenever a group of boys were going to the army they always had the band out and they gave 'em a big sendoff and they always transported them on the train nearly always. And everybody in town would be the station. Wendell recalls there being quite a send off for troops heading off to war. train depot ; troop trains ; WWII troop trains ; WWII 1402 Bristow Business - Cotton & ; Peanuts EC: A business like Bristow, it went through its cotton days before you came, really. WL: And at the time I came here, I believe there were seven or eight cotton gins in operation. The biggest thing, yeah, two biggest ones were Kelly's that's Albert Senior and he was, one of them was down on the south lane, right there at the railroad track, and the other one was down here on east seventh street. The building is now destroyed there. EC: And then of course, the oil business came in and after... WL: All business is already pretty well established. I think our main oil boom in Bristow was somewhere around 1921, 22 I think. Wendell remembers cotton and cattle being good business for people of Bristow, but also, peanuts added to the economy during that time. allotments ; cattle business ; Chamber of Commerce ; cotton ; cotton gin ; garment factory ; oil boom ; peanut mill ; peanut washing machines ; peanuts ; row cropping Bristow business 1586 Land & ; Housing EC: Well, has there been or have there been obstacles which you're aware [indecipherable] Bristow, I've heard, for example, there have been problems with housing [inaudible] its size [inaudible]. WL: RL Jones, who lives right out the edge town out here were principle land owners around here. RL owned nearly all the land west of town around the the city park and all out through there. And Albert Kelly and RL Jones had the growth pretty well shut off on the north and they wouldn't sell any land to anybody. So the growth had to be constrained to was constrained to just south and east pretty well. But they were both real civic minded in a way, except that they wouldn't sell their land. Wendell recalls RL Jones and Albert Kelly being prominent land owners. Albert Kelly ; housing ; land ; RL Jones housing ; land 1673 Bank Failures & ; Other Events EC: Well, have there been any particular events that you either witnessed during this time, heard about that maybe not everybody knows about that are worth recording, preserving? You weren't involved in any of the bank robberies or? WL: Well, I was here when they happened and I was here when two of the banks went broke. The First National went broke there, hit [inaudible] and I can't remember the dates of any. But the first one that went broke was the First State Bank over on the corner where, Pacific Finance is over there, the corner of Seventh and Main on the east southeast corner. And that was a bank in there and it went broke. Wendell remembers there being several banks that failed in Bristow, and Clad Purdy ran an insurance agency and had influence in the town. Clad Purdy ; Ed Rollestone ; First National Bank ; First State Bank ; Groom Bank ; Groom Brothers ; Mr. Freeland ; radio station bank failures ; Clad Purdy ; radio station 1859 Newspapers EC: Speaking of newspapers, I, I'm supposed to talk to Mr. Cook, WL: Who's IL Cook who ran the paper here for years. EC: Well, what's the story? I've heard that Cook and Nichols had quite a fight going over something. I don't know what. WL: The main deal over that was that Cook put in a competitive newspaper. EC: Ah. WL: And Nichols tried to run him out of town. EC: I see. WL: But, but IL survived him and finally bought his old newspaper after he died. Wendell remembers the competition between rival newspapers owned by IL Cook and LM Nichols. IL Cook ; LM Nichols ; newspaper newspaper 1956 Politics EC: What about politics? You ever get involved in politics in Bristow? WL: No, not particularly. I run for mayor one time and they beat my tail, but I was very unhappy with a lot of the things that were going on, and I thought that I could put the city of Bristow on a business basis, rather on a political basis, but they didn't agree with me. EC: So as politics, as far as city elections are concerned, has it been a, a partisan thing or just an individual thing? WL: I think probably more of it is between Democrats. Wendell remembers politics in Bristow being rather nonpartisan. He also ran for mayor and lost. elections ; mayor ; nonpartisan ; OG Ross ; politics nonpartisan ; politics 2053 Race Relations EC: Now we started talking about the Tulsa race riot. How have race relations been in Bristow? WL: Race relations in Bristow have never been strained in any manner. My wife was teaching school here when the integration came to the school. And there's never been a, an incident of any, of, any consequence at all as far as the integration of the, of the races at all. Now, of course they do have, they did have a few little difficulties with maybe blacks, so that they had the same number with the whites, but the black schools over here, way over here on west tenth,yeah, I guess they're on west tenth. Wendell didn't feel there were any strained race relations in Bristow. He recalls the excitement of going to basketball games during that time. basketball ; Haskell Thompson ; integration ; race relations race relations 2123 School Athletics EC: Well, I understand high school athletics have been fairly important to a town like Bristow. WL: Bristow has been fortunate in either having good coaches, I think Hafer of course was the forerunner of our better athletic team. See, Hafer, who was still alive, I think saw him now over a couple years ago, and he lives in Edmond at present time. But EC Hafer is who our football field is named after. And, after he started this football going in a big way, we've had some excellent football teams. The fact is we've won the championship and been in the playoffs year after year years. Any football season is a highlight of Bristow and I think. Wendell recalls school athletics being a big deal in Bristow. He remembers Sapulpa being Bristow's biggest rival in football and champion hurdlers, Jack Carman and Sammy Allen. athletics ; football ; HC Hafer ; hurdlers ; Jack Carman ; rivalry ; Sammy Allen ; Sapulpa ; state championships Sapulpa rivalry ; school athletics 2277 Highway Markings EC: Well, I know that there are a lot of things that I haven't touched on. Is there something I should have asked you about that comes to mind that ought to be preserved? WL: Well, and one thing that you might be interested in, when I first came to Bristow, there were very few highways around here except just dirt roads. One of the first highway markings, I believe, was the old Ozark Trail. . And all it was, was a band of green and white paint around a tree or a fence post with [indecipherable] printed on this. And that was the original marking for any highway around Bristow. At that time, you could get lost a half a dozen times going from here to Tulsa. Because you just went on the section line roads. Wendell talks about the first highway markings on Ozark Trail. He remembers it was tough to get around and easy to get lost on section line roads. highway markings ; Ozark Trail ; Sapulpa ; section line roads ; Springfield, Missouri MP3 In this 1979 interview with Wendell List, he talks about the Tulsa Race Riots, the first radio station, the first newspapers, politics and race relations in Bristow. Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator' ; s attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. EC: Let' ; s see. Now your name is Wendell List, right? WL: Wendell O list. EC: Wendell O List. And this is July the 16th. Why don' ; t we just start then. Tell me how you happen to come to Bristow. WL: Well, my dad and I bought the Ford agency here in 1923, and we took possession of it the 1st of October, 1923. EC: Okay. Where' ; d you come from? WL: We came from Tulsa. EC: Okay. WL: I was, I was just outta high school. I graduated from Tulsa High School, Central High School, when there were, that was the only high school up there, of course. And that was the, the year that they had the race riots. EC: That' ; s right. Okay. WL: And I, the, the race riot has become more and more wild and wicked. Ever since that time. I was all through the whole thing. EC: Oh, were you? WL: Yes. EC: Well, that didn' ; t have much to do with Bristow, but tell me what you do know about it. I' ; ve heard some of those conflicting stories. WL: Well, the latest story I' ; ve heard was that there was 39 people killed in the Tulsa race riots, and I can almost guarantee that there was only three. EC: Is that right? WL: Yeah, there was only three, and I was all over the territory. All over the thing because Paul Jankowsky, whose father was the, the Palace Clothiers in Tulsa, he owned the Palace Clothiers down at Fifth and Main. EC: Yeah. WL: And Paul lived very close to me, and he came down in his car and took us down to the police station. We parked close up by the police station and parked. And then by the time we parked and walked over to the police station, there was a, an officer came out and handed each one of us a shotgun, told us to go shoot a nigger. And I said, hell, I' ; m not gonna shoot anybody. I' ; m not gonna shoot anybody. But he said, well, take the gun anyway. He said, you, he said, well, what do you want us to do? He said, all right. You go over on Greenwood and there' ; ll be some officers over there, some people in charge, and they' ; ll tell you what to do. And so they put us searching houses for the people who were still around, you know, most of ' ; em had already fled, but there was quite a few people still in these houses, they' ; d just holed up. So we were searching every house. We had four men search each house, and two of us would go into the house each time. One would cover the other one with a shotgun while the first man walked in. And if there was more than one room, we had to enter with the man that walked in the front door, he' ; d, he' ; d hold his gun on the behind the back up the other fella, and he' ; d go in next to him. We just stair stepped each other into the complete house. EC: Yeah. WL: And every once in a while we' ; d find somebody, of course they were scared, terrified, but we' ; d take ' ; em out in the street and just tell ' ; em, stand there and somebody take ' ; em along. So we' ; d accumulate quite a few and we' ; d, a couple of us would take ' ; em down and put ' ; em in a congregation point. At one time we had about a thousand congregated down there on Standpipe Hill, and there was four of us that marched a thousand down. Well, an officer told us we' ; d been taking ' ; em to the, to the what do they call the old convention hall? They called it The Old Lady of Brady Street. EC: Oh, yeah, yeah. WL: Well, we had already decorated this, this place for our graduation. But by the time. It was time for our graduation where they they had about 6,000 blacks in there for protective custody and they were searching all of ' ; em out on the front porch. There must have been a pile of razors and pocket knives and just different kind of knives and weapons of that sort. We took ' ; em all away from ' ; em before we let ' ; em inside the building and they they had must have had a pile there, but then, 15 or 20 feet across. Must have been a foot deep in the middle. A tremendous amount of, but they put ' ; em in there until that was completely filled. And then they put the surplus over what that building would hold and convention off, and they took ' ; em down to McNulty Park, which was in the baseball field down on 11th Street and we took two groups down there about, oh, anywhere from five or six hundred to maybe a thousand. We just put ' ; em inside because these people were afraid that somebody would see them. Now, this early this morning, I saw one black that had been shot and they told us that there was another one that had had been wounded, that didn' ; t get killed when they had they had had turned these baggage trucks down at the depot. They had turned them over and using them for barricades. And there was one, one body down there in the railroad yard. And then we saw one other body, and then I heard of another one who had been killed. And I believe that I' ; m accurate in saying that three was all that was killed. At the end of the race riot, the last newspaper article I saw sometime around three or four, five months ago, claimed then that there was 39 killed. And I' ; m sure that, that highly exaggerated. I don' ; t think that' ; s true at all. EC: In fact, there was stories I guess about machine guns being set up and bodies being loaded in the box cars. WL: And some of the wildest tales that you ever heard in your life. And the tails have gotten wilder and bigger ever since this happening. EC: Yeah. WL: And it' ; s now, the last report I read in the paper said 39 killed. And I' ; m certain that that was an error. I didn' ; t know that it couldn' ; t have. EC: And you said Paul Jankowsky was with you? WL: Yes, we were some of this together all day. EC: Oh good. WL: And but we walked after, after we got over into Greenwood, we parked the car over there and just walked all around and we searched these {indecipherable] for ' ; em. Oh, I guess about five or six hours. And then we started transporting ' ; em down to get them in protective custody so it got heard. Well, that might be an interesting story. EC: Yes. WL: Very little Bristow.. EC: I understand. WL: But I' ; d seen Bristow. EC: But, but I have read the thesis on the race riot, or rather, I know there is one, and I' ; ve heard about it all these years. WL: Well, the way it started they had taken some a black boy in custody. He tried to assault a an elevator girl in one of the buildings there along, late at night, and they took him down to jail and put him in jail. And there was a group of other blacks, little [indecipherable], I think like they were, but they came down there and they were gonna release him, and they called in all the officers that were not on duty and just made a ring around the courthouse. And they were they were having a little hassle there on the steps. And in, in the many one of the blacks grabbed for one of these, Officer' ; s guns. And when it did, the gun went off and they were quite, a crowd had gathered and it shot one of bystanders across the street, shot her in the, in the thigh. And, of course, she started raising a lot of fuss about that. Hollering screaming. So they they called an ambulance for her of course. And then all these blacks run, they ran down Main Street. Off Main Street, right? Petty much all around the jail at that time was they all ran down and they all gathered again down at the depot. And that' ; s where that [indecipherable] little battle started. As near as I could tell, one and possibly two were all that were killed there. And then during the rest of the riot, there was another one killed and he ran from some guys and that shot him. EC: Well, getting back to Bristow there. How did you, your father, happen to pick Bristow? Was it just because the agency was available or was there some other-- WL: No, actually, an aunt of mine, I got a call. My aunt' ; s [indecipherable], Mr. EM Vanderslice (ph) was a Ford dealer in Tulsa, the only Ford dealer they had at that time. He also owned Ford agencies in Claremore and Pawhuska and Claremore. And I believe another one or two at that time you could, yeah, you [indecipherable]. And he also had the Ford Tractor Agency for area. And so he got killed in an accident in a freight yard. He got caught between two freight railway cars. [Indecipherable] engine bumped two cars together and caught him between and killed him. Well, my dad was her closest relation, and so he was, he went down to [indecipherable] at Harrisonville, Missouri, and that summer I had grad, I hadn' ; t graduated, I had just finished the junior class and I came to Tulsa, went to Tulsa Central High for my 1921 year, and graduated from Tulsa Central High School that spring. But then from then we went to Claremore and operated the Claremore place for a couple years. And then we came back to Tulsa and we operated a motor rebuilding plant there, dad and I did. And about that time I this Agency became available here in Bristow and so we, my dad and I bought the partnership. Both equal partners. When we bought this agency here in 1923, we bought it the first day of September. And took, took it over on the first day of October. My dad was down here all that time, but he didn' ; t actually take possession until the first day of October, 1923 EC: Was the oil boom still on in Bristow? WL: That place the oil boom is pretty well over by that time, however, most of the oil field work was still being carried on with teams. And they had these big groups of people who were [indecipherable]. They had like that type work and they had a lot of cases of photos here. Can' ; t remember, I can' ; t remember his name right offhand this little [indecipherable], you know, to remember. EC: Sure. WL: But he was quite a well-known fellow and there was a fellow here named Williams. It was a [indecipherable], and he was also a wrestler and they had professional wrestling in Bristow at the time. And most of the wrestling was [indecipherable] on at a building, which is now the J& ; J Cafe down on south main. EC: Yeah. Right. WL: And then they also had some of their, their wrestling matches in the theaters. The old Walmur Theater is where the Community State is now located. And at that time, why they were all silent movies. EC: That' ; s the, I' ; m gonna ask you. I don' ; t know for sure when, which movie started. I' ; ve heard of the Walmur . I' ; ve heard of the Princess, the Star, and I don' ; t know which one. WL: They were all here as I remember. I believe they were all here at the time that I was here. And then the the Walmur Theater had vaudeville quite a bit of the time. And they had regular vaudeville shows came in here. And then they had these touring shows came through. EC: You were still young enough. Were you married by then? WL: No, I, I was. EC: Okay. You were young enough and single. What did a single young man do in Bristow for entertainment or, WL: Well, about, about the only entertainment there was in the summertime, of course, we had the old Coles Park, which had a swimming pool, and that was the only swimming pool around here, with the exception of, of going to the creek or something like that. But also, we made friends with Louie Meyer' ; s dad over at Sapulpa, and he had that, he had that big home and a big pond in [indecipherable] bath house and all that. So, we' ; d get dates and go over there and go swimming over there. The park had a little swimming pool about 10 feet wide and probably 25 feet long, and they had a little bath house out there and that' ; s all there was there. But they also had camping facilities around the area and that' ; s where the Elk' ; s Club is located now. EC: Oh, okay. WL: That' ; s the same location as the old Cole' ; s Park. EC: Yeah. WL: And let' ; s see what else might be, oh yes. One of the, let' ; s see if I can remember the name of it. On East sixth Street, just east of the alley from Main Street was an old hotel. And don' ; t remember the name of it, but I' ; m sure there a lot of people, remember the name of, the name of that hotel. But Joe Orr-- EC: The Laurel. WL: Yeah, Laurel. That' ; s it. The Laurel Hotel. Thank you for reminding. It was the old Laurel Hotel and it was on that corner, which is vacant at the present. And it was a two story hotel, and it was more, I think, more of a honky tonk for gals and all. They were available there at all times. And then the rooming houses upstairs, up and down Main Street were also had girls available in nearly all of ' ; em because after, during the boom and after the boom, these were oil field workers and they, they drank [indecipherable] and they had the facilities to take care of them. EC: Right. What about oh, I guess jumping ahead a little bit, but what effect did the Depression have on Bristow? WL: As far as we were concerned, we never did notice it too much. The [indecipherable] business fell off and everybody, everybody came tightening their belts and all that sort of thing. But actually, most of us was somewhat of a primitive type and the Depression didn' ; t hurt us too much. Of course there was lot people, [indecipherable]. And we had to do what they called their soup lines with the merchants around town. There was no federal assistance or anything at that time. But the I don' ; t think there was any federal assistance anyway, the merchants and, and people who had a little money donated money to provide bread and soup, and that' ; s about all they got at those. But they they had these places where they could use an empty store building and they' ; d make great big cups full of soup and serve soup, and that' ; s about all. But that was enough to keep ' ; em alive. EC: Backing up a little. You hear when the radio station was over here? WL: Oh, yes. Yes. Ed Rollestone, [indecipherable] and previous to him though they had a radio station right down here in the old Chevrolet building they had up here on the second floor, this building right down here. EC: They had one first. WL: Yes, they had one first, a small one. And I don' ; t know whether Ed was financially involved in that one. I' ; d rather think not, but it was in the second floor of the three-story building right here at Mercer' ; s. EC: Yeah, that' ; s the first time I' ; ve heard of that I think. WL: Merritt one of the Delanos named Merritt. Let' ; s see, what was the other Delano boy' ; s name? EC: Boyd. WL: Do you remember? Remember Merritt was one of them. And then also back in about that same somewhere, right along in there, we had a big glass plant move in to Bristow and they had a glass plant right over here about in the location where the city water well over there on, on 12th Street and they produced bottles. I think about the only thing they built over there. EC: Getting one question about the radio that you may not know. I' ; ve been told they started a radio station here and it was KFRU. WL: Correct. EC: And then somebody told me that KFRU was sold to, they thought Columbia, Missouri, it was sold. Then KVOO was started. WL: [Indecipherable] sold the original KFRU equipment and all to the this college in Columbia, Missouri. And then KVOO was started. EC: It was KVOO right here in Bristow? WL: Yeah, I think so. And then they they sold it out, Ed Rollestone sold it to [indecipherable] to people in Tulsa. I don' ; t know. I don' ; t know whether they, I don' ; t know who bought it or, but at the time we had here, some of the main entertainment was Jimmy Wilson and his Catfish Band, and they broadcast as if they were on the [indecipherable]. EC: What was the, the first station you' ; re talking about started by Delano taken over by Rollestone, or had gone out of business? WL: No, he just, he just quit. I think. However, I think it' ; s that one I think bought some of the equipment that the Delanos had down there. EC: I see. WL: And his was down there in the second floor [indecipherable]. EC: Who, is there anybody around you think would know the details of that first station still? Because that' ; s the first I' ; ve heard of it. WL: Oh, really? EC: Mm-hmm. WL: I had the first portable radio in this town. EC: Did you? WL: In an automobile? At that time, all of the receivers were these high price, expensive [indecipherable] or I forget the name of the other one, but they were very complicated. [Indecipherable] had about a dozen dials on them. And you got more static than you got sound. And they were tremendously difficult to operate. Oh, almost took an engineer just to operate one. They had a big harness set up on top and, but all, all of us kids found out that the that you could make a crystal set. Now, I don' ; t know whether you ever saw a crystal. EC: Oh yes, I made one once. WL: But you used a little chunk of coal, and what we used anyway. And we had a tickler on it and a coax, which we could tune to the frequency of the station. We' ; d set that tickler on the top of the car, and had a headset that we could listen to the radio from. So I got the idea [indecipherable] at the time, so I had a, a Ford coupe and I took copper screen wire and put it underneath my headlining in the top of this coupe. And then I took this kicker and put it on it, that crystal deal, and I got back on it so it wouldn' ; t work away from that. But you couldn' ; t drive, you couldn' ; t drive and listen to the radio at the same time, but I' ; d take my girlfriend out. Now, I couldn' ; t go over careful, [indecipherable] I had a hole drilled on my floorboard and I could jam this grounding rod into the dirt through this hole in the in the floorboard. And I had two sets of ear phones. And you, you and your girlfriend both sit there, listen to the radio. However, it was always difficult to make love with a, with pairs of headphones on. But but we had but I had, I had to monopoly on all the best dates in town for a while until these other guys caught up and started building them themselves and after they did that, well of course all I filled ' ; em up on these sets like mine. EC: Yep. Yeah. WL: But we' ; d one of the, one of the city park was out. We got real good reception and also it was an isolated place, that was before the lake, was what I had. And it was all woods in there. And we' ; d go out there and park in these woods down there and listen to our radio. EC: Okay. Well that, that' ; s interesting. What effect was any particular effect of World War II on Bristow, other than just what you' ; d expect? WL: Well, they made a great deal more ceremony out of out of the war than we have in any subsequent time. At that time, whenever a group of boys were going to the army they always had the band out and they gave ' ; em a big sendoff and they always transported them on the train nearly always. And everybody in town would be the station. Maybe we' ; d have 20 or 25 young fellows going, but everybody would gather down at the railroad station and send them off with a big band playing and everybody, all that sort of thing. EC: Yeah. WL: But it was quite a ceremony. And then the troop trains came here through here all the time. After they were inducted, they were all over the country. They were being [indecipherable] for training [inaudible]. EC: A business like Bristow, it went through its cotton days before you came, really. WL: And at the time I came here, I believe there were seven or eight cotton gins in operation. The biggest thing, yeah, two biggest ones were Kelly' ; s that' ; s Albert Senior and he was, one of them was down on the south lane, right there at the railroad track, and the other one was down here on east seventh street. The building is now destroyed there. EC: And then of course, the oil business came in and after... WL: All business is already pretty well established. I think our main oil boom in Bristow was somewhere around 1921, 22 I think. EC: And then somewhere along in the [inaudible]. WL: Established the peanut mill, which is still, the building' ; s still there quite a bit, and there between the second and third street on South Main. And he bought, oh I don' ; t know, 10 or 20 peanut washing machines that the boys could come in and borrow and harvest a peanut, huh. Very beneficial in promoting this peanut business. And it did give us a shot in the arm because it was one of the biggest money crops that we had had up until that time. The cattle business, of course, was pretty good, but primarily we were a row cropping community at that during those years, they raised corn and cotton, and of course, cotton was our primary. And I remember we had seven cotton gins, but the peanut business turned out to be a real good thing until they promoted it to such a degree all over the southwest that they got a surplus of peanuts and they started in a [indecipherable] acres you could plant in peanuts. Well, that soon they just kept a lot cutting their allotments down to the point, wasn' ; t very long, [indecipherable] maybe they' ; d been planting two acres and they' ; d get down to maybe a third of an acre or something like that, and they wouldn' ; t fool with ' ; em on the basis they couldn' ; t produce. So, the peanut business died out when the allotments got so bad. EC: When did they start to promote the [inaudible] something fairly recent or has that been going on? WL: I don' ; t, I don' ; t remember the date, but really the first, first thing here I can remember really a great magnitude was the garment factory out here, and I don' ; t remember exactly what year that was, but the Chamber of Commerce pulled a shenanigan to build that thing. It was as illegal, I think, as anything could possibly been. But what the did, the parking lots down here [inaudible]. EC: Well, has there been or have there been obstacles which you' ; re aware [indecipherable] Bristow, I' ; ve heard, for example, there have been problems with housing [inaudible] its size [inaudible]. WL: RL Jones, who lives right out the edge town out here were principle land owners around here. RL owned nearly all the land west of town around the the city park and all out through there. And Albert Kelly and RL Jones had the growth pretty well shut off on the north and they wouldn' ; t sell any land to anybody. So the growth had to be constrained to was constrained to just south and east pretty well. But they were both real civic minded in a way, except that they wouldn' ; t sell their land. All they wanted to do was buy more. All they wanted was what joined them. That' ; s all. And out there nearly all this paving around Bristow was put in after I came here. Main Street, however, was paved when I came here, as I remember. EC: Well, have there been any particular events that you either witnessed during this time, heard about that maybe not everybody knows about that are worth recording, preserving? You weren' ; t involved in any of the bank robberies or? WL: Well, I was here when they happened and I was here when two of the banks went broke. The First National went broke there, hit [inaudible] and I can' ; t remember the dates of any. But the first one that went broke was the First State Bank over on the corner where, Pacific Finance is over there, the corner of Seventh and Main on the east southeast corner. And that was a bank in there and it went broke. But it so happened we owed them more than than we had in it. And so we got all our money back by just paying off the balance of our notes. And then when the Groom Bank went broke, and that' ; s the National Bank, and that' ; s the northwest corner of Seventh and Main that was run by the Groom brothers. And it was my understanding that they lost the bank' ; s money speculating in Florida real estate.I don' ; t think they profited from it, but they broke the bank. And Mr. Freeland was around here then he was a big operator in Florida real estate, and he' ; d made a lot of money, but he didn' ; t take any, and got caught in the, in the, in the Depression when, when he lost all his fortune. Pretty well in that. EC: Yeah, WL: It' ; s Purdy. I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard of him. EC: Yes sir. WL: You know, kind of, he lived in this house, right yonder, back there on 10th Street Clad, everybody called him Clad Purdy, he ran a insurance place here and he was quite influential in town for a long time. [inaudible] was related [inaudible] in some way was related to, I think it was Ed' ; s wife' ; s brother, possibly. And he was an artist, organist, and piano player. And he was one of the principal entertainers on [inaudible] they' ; d have kids come up and sing and they' ; d have [inaudible]. EC: People will tell me that that was the first radio station in the United States. And then there are others that say it was the first one in Oklahoma. And I don' ; t know for a fact about even that. WL: I don' ; t think it was even the first in Oklahoma, because there were some others I think, operating at the time. But it was one of the main ones. There were very few at that time. It was a new enterprise altogether. Ed, Ed Rollestone was wealthy from all them, and he he was the one that put it in and promoted. EC: Speaking of newspapers, I, I' ; m supposed to talk to Mr. Cook, WL: Who' ; s IL Cook who ran the paper here for years. EC: Well, what' ; s the story? I' ; ve heard that Cook and Nichols had quite a fight going over something. I don' ; t know what. WL: The main deal over that was that Cook put in a competitive newspaper. EC: Ah. WL: And Nichols tried to run him out of town. EC: I see. WL: But, but IL survived him and finally bought his old newspaper after he died. EC: Is that right? Okay. WL: And IL Cook still lives here. EC: Alright. And then the present owner bought it from Cook. WL: That' ; s right. EC: Okay. WL: Yeah, he sold it to him alright. But IL Cook is still here in town and I' ; m sure his, with his and his wife too. They both were in the newspapers. And I feel like that either one of ' ; em would be invaluable sources of a lot of, not quite as early as maybe I' ; m familiar with, but they' ; d have a probably a more comprehensive idea of a lot of these things than I would because that was their business, keeping track of news. Competitors were not were not friendly in any respect. EC: When was that? In the thirties? WL: Back before then, I believe. EC: Before then? WL: Yeah, before the thirties I believe. Alright. I' ; m not very good or sure on dating on things like that. EC: Well, you think it was primarily a business rivalry? It wasn' ; t anything. WL: There was nothing personal because they didn' ; t even know each other personally. EC: There was Democrat passed against Republicans or something like that. WL: They were all Democrats, Uhhuh. There' ; s never I I been any preponderance of anybody but Democrats in this. EC: Right. WL: In this county. EC: What about politics? You ever get involved in politics in Bristow? WL: No, not particularly. I run for mayor one time and they beat my tail, but I was very unhappy with a lot of the things that were going on, and I thought that I could put the city of Bristow on a business basis, rather on a political basis, but they didn' ; t agree with me. EC: So as politics, as far as city elections are concerned, has it been a, a partisan thing or just an individual thing? WL: I think probably more of it is between Democrats. EC: Yeah. WL: As far as the Republican minority, they never were able to do much. But we' ; ve had, we' ; ve had a few Republican mayors, I believe OG Ross was a Republican mayor, and his daughter, Mrs. Curtis Turner lives here now. And they' ; re living in the old OG Ross home. EC: I believe there' ; s been a few Republican County commissioners. WL: Yes, that' ; s right. That' ; s true. But I think I think this community around here has largely been. In favor of the individual. And I don' ; t think it made that much difference between a Republican and Democrat. We never did, I didn' ; t feel like, adhere to party lines at all. EC: City elections are pretty nonpartisan? WL: I think so. Yes. I believe so. Most of our people that get elected to things are well known people that have been around here for quite a while, and they vote for ' ; em on their personality and not their politics. EC: Now we started talking about the Tulsa race riot. How have race relations been in Bristow? WL: Race relations in Bristow have never been strained in any manner. My wife was teaching school here when the integration came to the school. And there' ; s never been a, an incident of any, of, any consequence at all as far as the integration of the, of the races at all. Now, of course they do have, they did have a few little difficulties with maybe blacks, so that they had the same number with the whites, but the black schools over here, way over here on west tenth,yeah, I guess they' ; re on west tenth. And it' ; s now private [indecipherable] over there. They tore down most of the buildings, but Haskell Thompson now lives in the, the grade school building over there and they converted it into a residence. But they had a big gymnasium over there and they used to have all their basketball games and everything, and it was a, it was a big deal to go to one of the black basketball games. They' ; re enthusiastic. I mean, the rooters are. EC: Well, I understand high school athletics have been fairly important to a town like Bristow. WL: Bristow has been fortunate in either having good coaches, I think Hafer of course was the forerunner of our better athletic team. See, Hafer, who was still alive, I think saw him now over a couple years ago, and he lives in Edmond at present time. But EC Hafer is who our football field is named after. And, after he started this football going in a big way, we' ; ve had some excellent football teams. The fact is we' ; ve won the championship and been in the playoffs year after year years. Any football season is a highlight of Bristow and I think. EC: I' ; ve heard that when the games were held in the afternoon, which they may still be for all I know, that they used to close down the businesses and-- WL: But there' ; s that one game in particular, we used to play Sapulpa and of course the Sapulpa game was always a, a very tense game because of the fact that Sapulpa and Bristow vied with each other to get the, the the county seat. And Sapulpa, we claimed stole it from us. And I don' ; t know how true that is, but we always claim that Sapulpa stole it from Bristow because we were the logical winner. We should have been it, but we didn' ; t get it right. And, but it did start a rivalry, which never did cease until we kept quit playing them. They got so large, we were not in their conference anymore, and we didn' ; t, we haven' ; t played them for several years now, seven or eight years. But football has been a, has been a major activity of the high school. They play basketball and track and those other things. We have, by the way though, had some outstanding track people from this town. We got Jack Carmen, who still lives here. He was one of the best hurdlers. He held a hurdle championship for the state Oklahoma for years. That was before they put ' ; em in conference. You just competed against everybody. And then Sammy Allen was another hurdler from this town, and he was much later than that Jack Carmen. But he was outstanding and held several state championships in hurdles. EC: Well, I know that there are a lot of things that I haven' ; t touched on. Is there something I should have asked you about that comes to mind that ought to be preserved? WL: Well, and one thing that you might be interested in, when I first came to Bristow, there were very few highways around here except just dirt roads. One of the first highway markings, I believe, was the old Ozark Trail. . And all it was, was a band of green and white paint around a tree or a fence post with [indecipherable] printed on this. And that was the original marking for any highway around Bristow. At that time, you could get lost a half a dozen times going from here to Tulsa. Because you just went on the section line roads. EC: Yeah. WL: And of course, many times you' ; d get on a road no longer passable with an automobile. At that time, when we first came here, we never thought of driving to Tulsa and trying to transact any business without staying all night and coming back the next day because the roads were so poor. EC: Sure, sure. WL: That with the transportation that we had and the roads that we had, you' ; d consume hours just, yeah. EC: And you went to through Sapulpa even then, didn' ; t you? WL: Yes. Uhhuh went through Sapulpa, but there were no paving. EC: The Ozark Trail, huh? WL: Yeah. Have you ever heard of it? EC: I' ; ve heard of the Ozark Trail, but I had no idea where it was. WL: Well, I don' ; t know where it started, but it started, I think, somewhere around Oklahoma City and went to Springfield, Missouri. And that I think was the first. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0044B_Wendell_List.xml OHP-0044B_Wendell_List.xml
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Wendell O. List
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In this 1979 interview with Wendell List, he talks about the Tulsa Race Riots, the first radio station, the first newspapers, politics and race relations in Bristow.
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OHP-0044B
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1979-07-16
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audio
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Pinehill Histories
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History of the Pinehill area north of Bristow
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Several interviews were done by Mary and Bob Mc Carty of people who grew up in the Pinehill area north of Bristow. This collection is the Pinehill subset of the Bristow Oral Histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
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Oral history.
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Robert L. “Bob” McCarty
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Virgil Rufus Vann
Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-03_Virgil_Vann.xml
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Pinehill
school
teachers
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5.4 OHP-0001-003 Virgil Rufus Vann OHP-0001-03 Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive Pinehill Community Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Pinehill Community and School Pinehill school teachers Virgil Rufus Vann Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann Robert L. “Bob” McCarty MP3 1:|32(11)|64(5)|80(3)|103(11)|120(8)|137(9)|154(11)|167(6)|180(4)|194(2)|206(11)|215(10)|232(12)|243(6)|275(14)|284(16)|295(13)|304(14)|314(7)|326(10)|360(10)|374(12)|383(5)|402(11)|420(13)|437(10)|461(14) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0001-03 Vann, Virgil.mp3 Other audio 0 School teachers and classmates in Pinehill BM: --seventy-six, five p.m. MM: Alright, now— BM: Your first— MM: Just a minute, back up, see if it’s recording right quick. BM: Your first teacher was, the first teacher that you went to was who? VV: [Indecipherable] the best I can remember, it might’ve been someone else before that, but-- BM: You don’t know what year it was she told him, huh? Discussion of school days, classmates, and community events in the Pinehill Community Carl Carson ; Charlie Line ; church ; community ; Dewey Carson ; Earl Phillips ; Elsa Self ; Etta Logan ; Howard Baker ; Indians ; Laurie Vaughn ; Leo Pinehill ; literaries ; Mary Vaughn ; Matt Baker ; pie suppers ; Pinehill School ; school ; teacher ; Walt Biggs classmates ; pie suppers ; pinehill ; school 390 Pitch Game and a poem about a Grasshopper BM: What did you do after the literaries? VV: Sometimes we’d have a pitch game. (laughs) BM: Pitch game? VV: Yeah. The boys would. And then we all got scared one night and we saw the community got tired of it, they got that—they didn’t like it a bit in the world, the board didn’t like it, ‘cause we was havin’ a pitch game. We didn’t mean nothin’ by it, just passin’ the time off. I remember one night we’d just got started, you know, and somebody rattled the door, it’s under the law, they’d already warned us. And “Stop that thing!” And somebody rattled and took ahold of the knob and pulled out on the door, tried to break it in. And we had a lock, you know, but they began to shake it and we all broke out of there. Somebody, I remember, someone, they went out, they kicked a big old chair right in the door and we finally just leaped over that chair, hit the ground, and I remember, it kinda knocked the breath out of me when I went over. (chuckling) It gave us such a scare that that ended the pitch game. We never did try that anymore. That was orneriness. And, oh, I don’t know what made us do that, but we didn’t mean nothin’ by it, you know, just havin’ fun. Memories of a pitch games and a poem from school Art Bolin ; Bob Biggs ; Charlie Line ; Frank newman ; Les Stubblefield ; pitch game ; Ralph Newman pitch game 593 Stealing a Rooster MM: What about Albert Cree’s (ph) rooster? VV: Ohhh (laughs) I’m gonna have to tell that again? BM: Yep! We didn’t get it down a while ago. School boys stealing a rooster Albert Cree ; Bob Biggs ; Charlie Vine ; Earl Phillips ; Hog Barnes ; Lester Wilson ; rooster ; stealing rooster 774 Schoolhouse burned down and moving BM: You said a while ago somethin’ about the schoolhouse burnin’, you said that you knew the reasons why that Ella Bruce (ph) and Willie Wilson (ph) didn’t teach anymore. What was that reason? VV: Well, Bob, the best I remember that I don’t know what time of the year, but I don’t know, it seems like they had their election along in March, don’t the school election? Pretty much. But anyway they had the school election there and they had—one of the parties was trying to put the other one out and put some more people in, you know, on the school board. Well, all of the community come out and those that didn’t, why, they’d have the hacks and they’d have buggies and somebody would go after ‘em and bring ‘em in and get ‘em to vote. And so that night, why, after the election, why the schoolhouse burned down. And they wasn’t no more school that year. Memories of the schoolhouse burning down and moving Big Deep Fork ; cotton ; crop ; Ella Bruce ; fire ; Newby ; Pinehill ; school ; schoolhouse ; Willie Wilson school 1136 Oil wells and the Vann children BM: Another question, Virg. Do you remember, or do you remember hearing them say, when the first oil well was drilled in this community? VV: Yeah, I think I do. Pretty sure I do. It was about a mile south of the W.O. Baker place. Glen Freeland and his brother was in the drillin’ business at time. Glen is still livin’. That’s where the first oil well was drilled, I think. I think he’s still livin’ but it ain’t certain for me. BM: Well would Glen Freeland still be around the Bristow area? VV: Yeah. I think he is. He got some wells back over there. The first oil well being drilled and the names of the Vann children covered wagons ; Donald Christopher Vann ; Eliza Elizabeth Grimes ; Glen Freeland ; oil well ; W.O. Baker children ; oil 1394 Courtship and showing off for girls BM: Alright, you and Carrie’s courtship, how did that go? When you were courtin’ Carrie, when you was courtin’ Carrie, how did that take place? VV: How’d it take place? BM: Yeah. VV: Well I got stuck on her. (laughs) I just got kind of stuck on her and we went together, was goin’ together. She wasn’t but fifteen when we married and we didn’t go together—how long we go together, mom? Discussion of courtship with Carrie, showing off, and watermelon stealing courtship ; horses ; Louis Masterson ; Molton Percy ; Owen Ware ; schoolhouse ; watermelon courtship ; horses In this 1976 interview, Virgil Rufus Vann (1895–1983) and his wife Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann (1900-1982) discuss their early-1900s childhoods in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow, Oklahoma, including the first teachers at the school, classmates, their courtship, community social events such as literaries, the loss of the first Pinehill school by fire, and Virgil’s boyish antics such as playing “pitch,” stealing watermelons, and the theft of a rooster. BM: --seventy-six, five p.m. MM: Alright, now-- BM: Your first-- MM: Just a minute, back up, see if it' ; s recording right quick. BM: Your first teacher was, the first teacher that you went to was who? VV: [Indecipherable] the best I can remember, it might' ; ve been someone else before that, but-- BM: You don' ; t know what year it was she told him, huh? CV: So she was teaching-- BM: So what year did you start school? VV: I think it was 1910, I' ; m pretty sure it was. BM: Alright, then she had to have been the teacher there in 1910. VV: Is that the way you got it wrote? BM: No, that' ; s not the way I got it, but-- MM: Well, she could' ; ve taught more than one-- VV: Well, now, I wouldn' ; t be positive on that, I just wouldn' ; t be sure. CV: Five years later we moved up there and she was teaching then. VV: She was? CV: So she might not be teaching VV: She must' ; ve--somebody else must' ; ve--you don' ; t know what year Etta Logan-- BM: Yeah, that was before that. VV: Before ' ; 10? BM: Yeah. VV: It was. I know I went to school with her, didn' ; t I? CV: I did. BM: No, Etta Logan was after Ella. CV: Yeah. MM: We may have that in some of that papers BM: Naw, I ain' ; t got any of that with me. VV: [Indecipherable.] BM: That damn thing, got it runnin' ; now? MM: Yeah, it is. CV: Didn' ; t you say [indecipherable] BM: When you first moved in here to go to Pinehill School where did you live at that time, Virgil? VV: Over on the Elsa Self place BM: You lived on the Elsa Self place. VV: Yeah. BM: Do you remember offhand the kids that went to school with you at that time? VV: Well there was Howard Baker (ph) and Matt Baker (ph) and Charlie Line (ph) and Laurie (ph) and Mary Vaughn (ph) and there was boys, Earl Phillips (ph), I think, [indecipherable] Phillips, Carl and Dewey Carson (ph) I believe, anyway I wouldn' ; t be sure. CV: Well, the Indians-- BM: The Indian kids-- VV: Leo Pinehill, I believe he went to school there, Walt Biggs (ph), and the Wilton (ph) boys, Esco (ph) and Lester (ph) I believe. What year was it that Alvin got killed, do you remember? CV: I think we figured that out. BM: Fifteen. CV: Ware. The Ware (ph) boys. VV: Huh? BM: The Ware (ph) kids. VV: Yeah. Yeah that' ; s right. Oh there' ; s probably some more but I honestly it' ; s out of my mind. BM: Okay, did you--what all activities was the school used for? VV: Well, community purposes, pie suppers and literaries and kangaroo courts, why nearly anything that people in the community-- CV: Church. VV: --wanted to use it for, why it was open. It was open to the public, you know. BM: Every kind of activities for the community, community purposes. VV: Yeah, that' ; s right. And church purposes, you know, they had church there, pretty regular all the time. BM: Now when you first went to go to school there, do you remember these old literaries? VV: Yeah, I remember very well. They' ; d have programs, you know, people would sing songs and different things. Anything that people, any kind of gathering that they wanted, why they was open to the public, you know. MM: Kangaroo courts? VV: Huh? BM: Kangaroo courts, uh, was that, uh, kangaroo courts, was that held as a, one of these literaries or was that-- VV: Well it just seemed to me like they would have literaries, what you mean by " ; literaries" ; is they just had songs, you know, and things like that and to entertain the people, you know. BM: Now this kangaroo court that you was talkin' ; about a while ago, uh, was that officially or was that a, held as a dialogue at these get-togethers on Friday night? VV: No, during literaries they didn' ; t have no dialogues in their programs, you know. They had school programs. They only had dialogues, you know, on the last day of school they' ; d have a program, you know. They' ; d have dialogues and speeches and [indecipherable]. MM: What did you do after the literaries? BM: What did you do after the literaries? VV: Sometimes we' ; d have a pitch game. (laughs) BM: Pitch game? VV: Yeah. The boys would. And then we all got scared one night and we saw the community got tired of it, they got that--they didn' ; t like it a bit in the world, the board didn' ; t like it, ' ; cause we was havin' ; a pitch game. We didn' ; t mean nothin' ; by it, just passin' ; the time off. I remember one night we' ; d just got started, you know, and somebody rattled the door, it' ; s under the law, they' ; d already warned us. And " ; Stop that thing!" ; And somebody rattled and took ahold of the knob and pulled out on the door, tried to break it in. And we had a lock, you know, but they began to shake it and we all broke out of there. Somebody, I remember, someone, they went out, they kicked a big old chair right in the door and we finally just leaped over that chair, hit the ground, and I remember, it kinda knocked the breath out of me when I went over. (chuckling) It gave us such a scare that that ended the pitch game. We never did try that anymore. That was orneriness. And, oh, I don' ; t know what made us do that, but we didn' ; t mean nothin' ; by it, you know, just havin' ; fun. BM: Who all was playing pitch? VV: Oh, there was Les Stubblefield (ph), Charlie Line (ph) and Bob Biggs (ph) and Frank Newman (ph), Ralph Newman (ph), and [indecipherable] Phillips, I think, and Art Bolin (ph)--aw, there was a whole host of us that played. But that ended up the pitch game that night. BM: Now, Carrie said something ' ; bout you had some of these school get-togethers, you said a little poem. What was this little poem about? VV: Oh, it was ' ; bout a little old grasshopper. BM: Would you care to repeat it? VV: Well, it goes like this: There was a little silly grasshopper/ He was always on the jump/ He never looked ahead/ He often got a bump/ His mother said to him one day/ While they were in the stubble/ You don' ; t watch before you leap/ You' ; ll get yourself in trouble/ The silly little grasshopper/ He despised his wise old mother/ And he said I know what to do/ And he decided not to bother/ He hurried on across the field/ And all at once he took a great big old jump and he landed in the brook/ He struggled hard to reach the bank/ But he finally decided he couldn' ; t do it/ He give up/ And all at once an old trout came out/ And tore him all to pieces. And that' ; s a warning, you know, for young people, to take warning from their mother. BM: That' ; s right. MM: What about Albert Cree' ; s (ph) rooster? VV: Ohhh (laughs) I' ; m gonna have to tell that again? BM: Yep! We didn' ; t get it down a while ago. VV: Well, we and us boys--they' ; s a whole bunch of us, oh there must' ; ve been eight or ten of us, we was always tryin' ; to play some prank, you know, on someone, and well Albert Cree (ph), he had an old fine rooster. And he thought a lot of ' ; im, but we decided we' ; d steal that old rooster that night and [indecipherable] was his brother-in-law, wasn' ; t it? He went out and borrowed his gun so that he couldn' ; t use that on us, and on ' ; bout little before we' ; s bedtime we slipped out to the henhouse and one of ' ; em, I forget--he grabbed that old rooster. He began to make his call and finally Albert came to the door and he had his dog about him, too. " ; Get him out! Get it!" ; and old dog just stand there and barkin' ; and barkin.' ; And we' ; d make that old rooster squall as loud as we could. Finally we decided we' ; d take him home and roast ' ; im. We started across the blind side, across an open field there and we, rather than walk through the brush we decided we' ; d walk around the edge of the field. We got over there a certain place and Albert, he cut across the field, you know, he didn' ; t go like we did. But he cut across and he run right into him. And he said, " ; Boy, give him up," ; he said, " ; I come after him." ; And well, he didn' ; t do it, he just hand the old rooster over and Albert went back to the house with the old rooster on his arm. And we didn' ; t bother old Albert no more, that--and with that ended up the rooster roast that night! BM: Who all was in on that rooster roast that night? VV: Huh? BM: Who all was in on that rooster roast? VV: Oh, Hog Barnes (ph), Charlie Vine (ph), Lester Wilson (ph) and Bob Biggs (ph) I believe, and Earl Phillips (ph)--all them, there' ; s a whole bunch of ' ; em. We just out having a good time, you know. And we--we didn' ; t get to roast that old rooster. The way we' ; d do it, we' ; d roll that--roast of ' ; em--roll them old roosters in mud, you know, then we' ; d put them on the pole iron and bake ' ; em. And, well, then we' ; d eat ' ; em. Not salted or nothin' ; . We didn' ; t like ' ; em very well, but we' ; d had a big time, you know. BM: You said a while ago somethin' ; about the schoolhouse burnin' ; , you said that you knew the reasons why that Ella Bruce (ph) and Willie Wilson (ph) didn' ; t teach anymore. What was that reason? VV: Well, Bob, the best I remember that I don' ; t know what time of the year, but I don' ; t know, it seems like they had their election along in March, don' ; t the school election? Pretty much. But anyway they had the school election there and they had--one of the parties was trying to put the other one out and put some more people in, you know, on the school board. Well, all of the community come out and those that didn' ; t, why, they' ; d have the hacks and they' ; d have buggies and somebody would go after ' ; em and bring ' ; em in and get ' ; em to vote. And so that night, why, after the election, why the schoolhouse burned down. And they wasn' ; t no more school that year. BM: Wasn' ; t any more school that year? VV: No. MM: How many schoolhouses-- VV: Finally that fall they built a new schoolhouse down up on the hill where the last one was. I don' ; t know if anybody remember it--do you remember that, where that was at? BM: How many schools do you remember being in the Pinehill District? VV: Three. BM: Three. VV: Three. Three different buildings. BM: Three different buildings. VV: Yeah. BM: Virgil, when you and Carrie came back from Arizona where did you move to? VV: We moved on the old Biggs' ; (ph), well, he owns it now. But dad had bought that place-- CV: Ella Grayson' ; s (ph) place. VV: Well it was up on the hill from dad' ; s house, on the Patty Grisham (ph) place, square-top house. And that' ; s where we lived for--I forget what year it was, we come back in nineteen eight-- CV: Well we lived in an old log house on your dad' ; s place first. VV: Well we moved from there on the [indecipherable] place. No, we moved from down in the field in the longhouse up to the square top house. Ella Grayson' ; s (ph). Then we lived there some years ' ; til 1929. We moved up on John Hader' ; s (ph) place. And we lived there two years and we moved there to Pinehill. And we lived there two years, we moved down on Big Deep Fork. We lived there two years and we moved from there over to Newby, a while east of Newby. That was in ' ; 35. We lived there one year and we moved back over on Kelly' ; s (ph) place south of Bristow five miles. Then we lived there one year and made a crop. We made one bale of cotton that year and we got stalled out. That was the hardest year I ever spent in my whole life, I guess. end side A of tape ; begin side B at 00:00 VV: --and we went from there to forty-four. We been there--that was in ' ; 36. That was a dry year. Were no crops to speak of at all. We left there in August, we went to New Mexico and picked cotton down in the valley that fall, and we left there and went to California. And we stayed there for one year I believe, and we come back to Oklahoma. And that' ; s the year dad had bought the old Phelps (ph)--not--I forgot where it was he bought that from. CV: Old Jake Corns (ph) was livin' ; on it. VV: Yeah, but I forget who it, who we bought it from. But we moved down in the little log house down in the field, and an old dug well in there. And we lived there a while, ' ; til nineteen-and-twenty-nine, we moved up on the Hader (ph) place, John Hader (ph) place. About two miles south of the sub (ph) station. And we lived there two years, two years--that' ; s right. We moved from there on the Leo Pinehill place a mile south of the old Pinehill schoolhouse. We lived there two years and we went to Big Deep Fork. We lived there two years, am I right? Oh, I' ; m all mixed up, ain' ; t I? CV: [Indecipherable.] BM: Another question, Virg. Do you remember, or do you remember hearing them say, when the first oil well was drilled in this community? VV: Yeah, I think I do. Pretty sure I do. It was about a mile south of the W.O. Baker place. Glen Freeland and his brother was in the drillin' ; business at time. Glen is still livin' ; . That' ; s where the first oil well was drilled, I think. I think he' ; s still livin' ; but it ain' ; t certain for me. BM: Well would Glen Freeland still be around the Bristow area? VV: Yeah. I think he is. He got some wells back over there. BM: Would you repeat all of the Vann kids' ; names? Your dad, your mother--dad and mother-- VV: Yeah, they was fourteen of us children. BM: Okay, start with your mother and dad. VV: That' ; s with brothers and sisters. BM: Start with your mother and dad' ; s names, Virg. VV: Dad' ; s name was Donald Christopher. BM: Donald Christopher Vann. VV: Yeah, and my mother' ; s name was Eliza Elizabeth. BM: What was her name before they were married? VV: Mother' ; s name was Grimes. BM: Grimes, okay. VV: Dad' ; s name was Vann. (laughs) BM: Alright, then-- VV: He married when he was seventeen years old, dad did. BM: The children' ; s names was what? VV: Huh? BM: What was all the kids' ; names? VV: Well, Vernie (ph) was the oldest, then I' ; m next. Pearl is next, then, um--- CV: Grace? VV: Grace, and Eamon (ph). That was the oldest ones that--then dad had a younger family after that of about four or five. Gertrude and Meehan (ph) and Louis (ph) and Cletis (ph). Four. Yeah. MM: How old was you when Cletis (ph) was born? VV: Huh? BM: How old was you when Cletis (ph) was born? VV: Cletis (ph) was born after I was married, I was married 1915. Cletis (ph) was born and he' ; s the youngest, he' ; s the baby, and he was born while we was in Arizona. And also, he was born a very--born the day that Maude (ph) died. See, Maude' ; d married Hog Varner (ph). And they went--when we went to Arizona, why they was five of us in the--five covered wagons. Six? Five or six. And we got out in Arizona, they lived there a while and Maudie (ph) died. CV: Not in Arizona. VV: And mother couldn' ; t even go to the funeral. They brought Maude (ph) back and buried her, but mother couldn' ; t go to the funeral because Cletis (ph) was born that day. BM: Alright, you and Carrie' ; s courtship, how did that go? When you were courtin' ; Carrie, when you was courtin' ; Carrie, how did that take place? VV: How' ; d it take place? BM: Yeah. VV: Well I got stuck on her. (laughs) I just got kind of stuck on her and we went together, was goin' ; together. She wasn' ; t but fifteen when we married and we didn' ; t go together--how long we go together, mom? BM: Did you ever pull any--show off to the girls at the school? VV: Did I what? BM: Did you ever show off to the girls at school? VV: Well, yeah, I tried to. (laughs) BM: What did you do showin' ; off? VV: Well I' ; d get down there and ride horses, you know, buckin' ; horses. I remember one time Owen Ware had a little horse and he was a buckin' ; little horse, and I told him I' ; d ride him behind the saddle. And the more I got on that little ole' ; horse and he run out and throwed me up in the tree and I fell down. Fell and knocked me unconscious, and I remember Carrie comin' ; out--I don' ; t remember but she said afterward, she come up there to help me, pick me up. (laughs) Yeah-- BM: So that was the start, that was really the courtship? VV: (laughs) Yeah. BM: When you was a lad growin' ; up, did you ever go watermelon stealing. VV: Oh, yeah, that sounds very common. BM: Who in your opinion, who raised the best watermelon? VV: Well, I just don' ; t remember, Bob, they was all good melons. BM: But you don' ; t--anyone in particular? VV: No, no, I don' ; t, I just don' ; t. But I remember we would, when we' ; d go get a watermelon, we' ; d just get a watermelon, we wouldn' ; t cut the--cut the green ones and mess the pipes all up, we was very respectable along that line. We wanted the people, you know, not to think hard of us and we' ; s just pretty good boys. BM: Okay--- VV: But we did play pitch once in a while. BM: I got a report that one time that you rode your horse into the schoolhouse, is that right? VV: In the what? BM: Into the schoolhouse. VV: No, no, I wouldn' ; t do nothin' ; like that, I don' ; t think I ever did. I believe I did ride him up on the porch, didn' ; t I? CV: I don' ; t know. BM: You rode him up on the porch, you never did get him on inside the schoolhouse? VV: Naw (laughs) no, I-- BM: Do you remember any of the other boys riding them in there? VV: No, no I don' ; t remember anybody. They could' ; ve but I don' ; t remember. BM: How long have you known Louis Masterson (ph)? VV: Well, let' ; s see, can' ; t remember, Bob. I didn' ; t go to school with him, I' ; m pretty sure. But he moved, they moved in the community in later years, I think, best I remember, and he married Molton Percy' ; s (ph) little girl, Virgie (ph). BM: I believe that' ; s about everything, Virg. end of interview audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0001-03_Virgil_Vann.xml OHP-0001-03_Virgil_Vann.xml
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Virgil Rufus Vann
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In this 1976 interview, Virgil Rufus Vann (1895–1983) and his wife Carrie May (Millhouse) Vann (1900-1982) discuss their early-1900s childhoods in the Pinehill Community outside Bristow, Oklahoma, including the first teachers at the school, classmates, their courtship, community social events such as literaries, the loss of the first Pinehill school by fire, and Virgil’s boyish antics such as playing “pitch,” stealing watermelons, and the theft of a rooster.
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OHP-0001-03
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Pinehill Community and School
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1976-10
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Wanda Newton
Interviewee
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Velma Collins
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5.4 February 12, 1994 OHP-0046B Velma Collins - Part 2 OHP-0046B 00:35:57 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Velma Collins Wanda Newton 1.0:|11(11)|14(15)|26(15)|38(10)|54(10)|69(12)|81(17)|95(4)|103(14)|118(3)|128(19)|142(20)|156(12)|177(11)|195(11)|207(6)|218(17)|232(16)|247(6)|258(5)|276(13)|288(8)|306(7)|319(17)|328(16)|345(4)|357(18)|375(3)|388(11)|400(11)|407(14)|424(15)|437(13)|449(13)|478(6)|490(18) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0046B Collins, Velma.mp3 Other audio 0 Childhood Games WN: Velma is going to tell us about some of her early childhood and growing up.
 ; 
 ; VC: Well, I can remember playing hide and seek out here behind all these big trees, and, of course, it was quite a nice place to play hide and seek.
 ; 
 ; WN: [Indecipherable] who is we?
 ; 
 ; VC: Well, it was all just the children in the family. Minna Karl (Minna Karl Ekdahl), Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) [indecipherable] and, mostly, just the children in the family.
 ; Velma recalls playing games such as hide and seek and paper dolls with the children in her family. Minna Karl Ekdahl ; Etta Feild Caves ; childhood games ; !Goraseb, M. G. A. childhood games 0 149 Music Education WN: Well, tell us about your school years. [Inaudible] I found a thing in the paper where you and Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) [indecipherable] for the radio station.
 ; 
 ; VC: I had forgotten that, yes. We took piano religiously. They saw to it that there was a good teacher [indecipherable] I mean, somebody in the family [indecipherable] and we had a good piano teacher. It was unfortunate that I didn’t become a great pianist, because that’s what they would have liked for me to have done. And then every Saturday, we went to classes with the same teacher. We studied history of music and theory of music every Saturday morning.
 ; Velma talks about her love of music and music theory and having excellent piano teachers while she was growing up.
 ; Etta Feild Caves ; piano ; Vern Tomlinson ; Minnie Burrows ; Elaine Shelton ; Minna Karl Ekdahl ; Kansas City (Mo.) music education 0 313 College WN: Well, and you’re reading, too, because everybody read so prolifically.
 ; 
 ; VC: I tried to read a lot. I wouldn’t read some of the books I read as a child now. You couldn’t get the modern-day children to read them [inaudible]. But anyway, we did read. I went off to college pretty young. Daddy thought I was too young. Well, anyway, I was just 16, and he decided that was just much too young to graduate and go away from home, so he made drop a subject, so I wouldn’t have enough credits to graduate. Now I was crushed, just crushed! Well, Mrs. Hutton, Mrs. C.E. Hutton, the wife of the superintendent, was also the math teacher. I guess she felt sorry for me. Anyway, she arranged for me to take math, one of the subjects that I needed, or could use, in a study hall. And I didn’t say anything to my father. Well, when graduation time came, I had my credits. Now, he was pretty angry with me, but he couldn’t keep me from getting my diploma, so I went off to college. I wanted to go to Randolph-Macon (College), but Randolph-Macon at that time required four years of Latin to enter.
 ; Velma discusses graduating early and wanting to attend a co-ed college, but her father didn't approve. She talks about her time at Ward-Belmont College. Mrs. C. E. Hutton ; Randolph-Macon College ; Ward-Belmont College (Nashville, Tenn.) ; Nashville (Tenn.) ; University of Oklahoma ; Carl Albert ; Speaker of the House ; Kappa Kappa Gamma 0 742 Camp Care-Away WN: Uh, the camp (Camp Care-Away) was at Galena? 
 ; 
 ; VC: Galena, Missouri. It was out from that little town on the river.
 ; 
 ; WN: Is that camp still there today as you know it?
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 ; VC: I’m not sure. It was such a beautiful little spot, but they built a dam somewhere down the river, the James River, and the government said it would be flooded, so they required mother, at that time because she owned it, to move the camp up on a bluff. Well, that took away the charm of it because it was down there...
 ; 
 ; WN: By the river.
 ; Velma recalls the camp her father, R. L. Jones, founded called Camp Care-Away in Galena, Missouri. Galena (Mo.) ; James River ; Camp Care-Away 0 896 High Expectations WN: He really expected a lot of you, I think.
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 ; VC: Oh my, did they. When I say children were seen and not heard in my day, I mean literally. That keeps you from being able to communicate.
 ; 
 ; WN: Socially, really.
 ; 
 ; VC: Uh-huh. And Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) and I talked about it. She was, and you know, not to show your emotions when I grew up, no. If you were sad, don’t show it. If you were, don’t act like a hoodlum and laugh all the time, see. I don’t know how to explain it except that children had their place in that era. Well, I, I can’t think of anything that I might have left out. You were talking about games, I can remember as a child playing jacks. Oh, I would wear my fingers out playing jacks.
 ; Velma remembers her father, R. L. Jones, having extremely high expectations of her as a young person. Etta Feild Caves ; Jacks high expectations 0 961 Childhood Games WN: I don’t think I’ve seen any children playing jacks or hide and seek or anything in…
 ; 
 ; VC: NO! And, oh, we had all kinds of games and different parts of the jacks game. I can remember playing marbles. [Indecipherable] used to love to tell about the time I beat him playing marbles, and it made him so mad because a little old squirt of a girl beat him. It was probably just that one time. Anyway, I loved to do that as a child. I really did.
 ; 
 ; WN: Yeah. And they played games like Jack Straws and pick up sticks.
 ; Velma recalls the different games she played as a child. Hide and seek ; Jacks ; pick up sticks ; jack straws 0 1033 R. L. Jones' Generosity WN: I can remember Lyle Thurman coming out here and practicing organ and that was the highlight of his life. And look what led to for Lyle.
 ; 
 ; VC: That’s right. Daddy was good to people…awfully good to people. If they tried to be worthy.
 ; 
 ; WN: This was important to him.
 ; 
 ; VC: Uh-huh it was and that was good training. And that’s why I used to get, inwardly, so upset when I would see the boys smoking after he had given them a hundred-dollar bill to give it up. Daddy was good. Some people…
 ; 
 ; WN: He was trusting.
 ; Velma remembers how generous her father was to people in the community. Lyle Thurman ; generosity ; Organ and instruments R. L. Jones' Generosity 0 1083 Children - Rowland and Roger WN: Okay, now then, if you can’t think of anything at this point in time about your early days, tell us about your two sons.
 ; 
 ; VC: Oh, well, I used to say I wanted four children. Well, I thought they were a little bit different than that. I had to settle for two. But I waited a long time to get the second one. It just didn’t happen that way. They were different as daylight and dawn which often the case in families, no two are alike. Rowland (Rowland Lee Collins) was precocious right from the beginning. I don’t whether it was because I had to entertain him so much when he was recovering from surgery on his hands when he'd had the terrible burn. I did spend a lot of time…
 ; Velma tells about her two children, Rowland and Roger. Rowland Lee Collins ; plastic surgery ; St. Louis (Mo.) ; opera ; Princeton University children ; Rowland Lee Collins ; John Roger Collins 0 1270 Princeton University WN: Well, that was an honor in itself.
 ; 
 ; VC: Right. There wasn’t many, very many students from this part of the country at that time going east as there are now. Well, then when Roger (John Roger Collins) came along, he had that in mind, too, but he was afraid he couldn’t get in, however, he did. So, those were busy years, and I can remember when Roger went off to school, I said, you may not like it, but I think you better go on the train while it’s still going. So when he went to college, he had a roommate, or whatever they call them and went to Princeton and that was the last time he ever did because they began to fail, you know…
 ; 
 ; WN: No more trains running.
 ; 
 ; VC: Right! That’s right. But he went to college on the train. 
 ; 
 ; WN: Well, that’s a nice remembrance for Roger.
 ; Velma talks about both of her sons attending Princeton University. John Roger Collins ; Rowland Lee Collins ; Princeton University Princeton University 0 1430 Rowland's Trip to England WN: Tell about Rowland going to England. I think that was wonderful, honestly.
 ; 
 ; VC: Oh, Rowland got some grants that took him to England. He had a trip to Europe that was just fantastic, he and one of his friends. And that’s before there was so much travel in Europe. And that then later years, Sarah, his wife and I, did some of same route that he took. We found it very interesting, rather tiring, because it was so inclusive, but it was great, great. Then he stayed in England one year. He began to find things that were in his field. Now the one thing that Rowland did that was very, very outstanding was that when he began to teach out of college, he got his doctorate degree from Stanford, and I think he was, if not the youngest, the next to the youngest to graduate to get a doctorate’s degree. And John and I had said, well, why not go ahead and get it. We can help you a little bit now, and if you wait until you are married and have kids, by then it will be ten times harder. So, if you can, get it now, well, he did. Then he went to teach in Indiana. Well, Rowland was such an inquisitive mind that he went through some manuscripts in the library.
 ; Velma remembers Rowland being awarded grants that allowed for him to take a trip to England. She also recalls him receiving his Doctorate Degree from Stanford and having an exhibit of Old English manuscripts at the J. Pierpont Morgan Library in New York. England ; Europe ; Stanford University ; Rowland Lee Collins ; Old English manuscripts ; J. Pierpont Morgan Library ; New York (Ny.) ; Princeton University ; Guggenheim Grant England trip ; Doctorate Degree 0 1685 Roger's Trip to the Middle East VC: Uh-huh. Now Roger had a good trip with Billy Farha (Bill Farha, Jr.).
 ; 
 ; WN: Yes, to the Middle East.
 ; 
 ; VC: To the Middle East. I look on Roger as being a definite brunette and kind of dark. They described him as a blonde when he was in those countries. They said who’s that blonde with you? Both boys were good in French. I’ve always wanted to be able to speak French fluently. I think it’s a little late now to start, but both of them had a good tongue or lip or something for French. They worked at it, though, because the, Roger I don’t think had ever had any French until he got to college. College French is extremely hard. Velma remembers Roger taking a trip to the Middle East and being able to fluently speak French. John Roger Collins ; Middle East ; French ; Rowland Lee Collins Middle East trip 0 1784 Rowland's Honors and Death Rowland’s were in the literary field and he attained lots of honors.
 ; 
 ; WN: And he wrote a book.
 ; 
 ; VC: He wrote a book. He edited several books. He had, I can’t tell you all the honors because they’re in certain fields of literature at Rochester. He was, he was head of the English department there at Rochester for nine years. I don’t think anybody had served that long. Finally, he said, oh mom, I can’t take it any longer. He said all the professors were prima donnas. Some were, you know, pretty high on themselves. Well, they’re experts in their fields. They liked him, though, and he enjoyed it there very much, and it was a shame he had to be taken so young.
 ; 
 ; Velma talks about the different honors Rowland received throughout his life and talks about his early death. John Roger Collins ; Rowland Lee Collins ; Rochester (N.Y.) honors ; death 0 1883 Roger's Business Accomplishments WN: Yes, and you still have Roger and he’s done wonderfully well in the business world.
 ; 
 ; VC: Yes, Roger, has different talents. He’s had some fantastic experiences.
 ; 
 ; WN: Tell me some of the companies that he’s, just name some of the companies that he’s worked for.
 ; 
 ; VC: Okay, he worked for Vanply, Inc., which is the subsidiary of Skelly. He was stationed out in, lived out in Washington there for several months. During that time, it seems there was some skullduggery going on in the business and a lot of mismanagement. So, at one time, they sent him to North Carolina, somewhere down there, and the situation was SO bad, here was quite young, I don’t know why they solicited a man so young, but they did. Velma discusses the different successful business ventures Roger had. Vanply, Inc. ; Skelly Oil Company ; John Roger Collins ; Paris (France) ; Rowland Lee Collins ; Nordam Group ; Parker Drilling Co. business accomplishments 0 MP3 In Part 2 of this 1994 interview with Velma Collins, she talks about her childhood memories, attending school, her music education, attending college, and most extensively about her children, Rowland and Roger. WN: Velma is going to tell us about some of her early childhood and growing up. VC: Well, I can remember playing hide and seek out here behind all these big trees, and, of course, it was quite a nice place to play hide and seek. WN: [Indecipherable] who is we? VC: Well, it was all just the children in the family. Minna Karl (Minna Karl Ekdahl), Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) [indecipherable] and, mostly, just the children in the family. [Inaudible] VC: Oh, I can remember playing paper dolls around the table, and the paper dolls consisted of pictures cut out of catalogs [inaudible}…one was dressed up, one was [indecipherable] You’d be surprised how much fun we had. We made furniture from [inaudible]. And I can remember taking, oh, two or three [inaudible]. That was lots of fun. WN: I remember when the Riley’s lived out here, and Jim Riley played tennis. [Inaudible] And I remember Mr. Jones would let, sometimes he’d let people from town come out here and play. VC: Yes, yes. [Inaudible] WN: Well, tell us about your school years. [Inaudible] I found a thing in the paper where you and Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) [indecipherable] for the radio station. VC: I had forgotten that, yes. We took piano religiously. They saw to it that there was a good teacher [indecipherable] I mean, somebody in the family [indecipherable] and we had a good piano teacher. It was unfortunate that I didn’t become a great pianist, because that’s what they would have liked for me to have done. And then every Saturday, we went to classes with the same teacher. We studied history of music and theory of music every Saturday morning. WN: Was that Vern Tomlinson? VC: Yes, and she was an excellent teacher, too. I can remember a few before her, Minnie Burrows was one and Elaine (Elaine Shelton) somebody [indecipherable]. I love the theory, but I wasn’t too good at playing. My hands didn’t function right. They talked to us that we could go to, or I mean someone, when I say they, somebody in the family…the aunts or uncles or somebody would get all of us that wanted to go which was usually was Minna Karl and Etta Feild and I, who were interested. But anyway, we would go to opera. We would go to a few plays. I can remember going to Kansas City to see [indecipherable]. WN: And then you rode the train, then, of course. VC: Oh yes, yes, yes. And then even later, Oklahoma [indecipherable] metropolitan before Tulsa and somehow, well, we had to stay the night when we would go to Oklahoma City. WN: And stay in the hotel. VC: Uh-huh. Stay in the hotel and then come back the next day. And they thought it was worth the effort and the money. We did have a wonderful musical education [indecipherable] and even though none of us performed as adults, we did have the appreciation, and that’s worth a lot. WN: Yes it is, because so many people today have no earthly… VC: None. WN: Knowledge of any of it. VC: And I often think, oh, they missed so much enjoyment with not knowing what to listen for and how to listen. I wouldn’t take anything for my music education. WN: Well, and you’re reading, too, because everybody read so prolifically. VC: I tried to read a lot. I wouldn’t read some of the books I read as a child now. You couldn’t get the modern-day children to read them [inaudible]. But anyway, we did read. I went off to college pretty young. Daddy thought I was too young. Well, anyway, I was just 16, and he decided that was just much too young to graduate and go away from home, so he made drop a subject, so I wouldn’t have enough credits to graduate. Now I was crushed, just crushed! Well, Mrs. Hutton, Mrs. C.E. Hutton, the wife of the superintendent, was also the math teacher. I guess she felt sorry for me. Anyway, she arranged for me to take math, one of the subjects that I needed, or could use, in a study hall. And I didn’t say anything to my father. Well, when graduation time came, I had my credits. Now, he was pretty angry with me, but he couldn’t keep me from getting my diploma, so I went off to college. I wanted to go to Randolph-Macon (College), but Randolph-Macon at that time required four years of Latin to enter. WN: Oh my. VC: They offered only two years, and daddy was trying to help. He said oh can’t you take it on the side? And they required the fifth year your first year [indecipherable]. I told daddy there was no way I could take three years Latin and carry on. I just can’t do it. And he really thought I could. So, then we headed for another school which is a junior college then with accreditation if you took the right things, see, to go into the university as a junior after two years. So that’s where I went to Ward-Belmont. I enjoyed it and did a lot of growing up. WN: It was an all-girls school. VC: Yes, it was a girl’s school, and they even had day students down even in kindergarten and smaller children in the grades coming up. Of course, I went as a college student. And I mean… WN: Where is Ward-Belmont? VC: It’s in Nashville, Tennessee. It doesn’t exist now. It went away like a lot of other junior colleges. They just couldn’t [indecipherable]. And now it’s a four-year coed college called Belmont College, but it’s in the same place. We worked hard. I mean, it was just really university work. I mean, I didn’t take typing. It was college work and it was very hard. The classes were small, and we had to recite nearly every day you went there. They knew whether you had studied or not. And I did alright. I made pretty good grades, and I got some offices and things like that. I had my eyes set on going to a coed school. I didn’t get there my way. Daddy kind of waylaid me here. I stayed here in Bristow taking typing and shorthand in high school. And that was kind of a bitter pill after you’ve been off to college to go back to the local high school, but I did. And I got to OU and then that’s when I got my honors. I did more honor’s courses than I did studying, but I’d had such a wonderful time [indecipherable] in Ward-Belmont really. And I don’t mean that I failed. I didn’t, because I made… WN: You were voted most outstanding girl. VC: Yes, I was voted the most outstanding girl student they called it [indecipherable] girl student, not woman student. And Carl Albert received it for the boy [indecipherable]. WN: Well, for some of the people that might not know who Carl Albert is, because later on they may forget. VC: Yes, well, he was the Speaker of the House for many, many years and I guess nobody has exceled that, has exceeded that number of years yet. He was short like I was, and had a stool to stand on even in the House of Representatives in Washington. They have a replica of his, exact replica of his office down at OU. I looked around the desk to see if that little stool was there and it was! It’s not a stool, it’s more of a little block, a little step. WN: Well, and since that time, you’ve been honored several times by OU. VC: Yes, they have asked me to come back. One year Carl was there, and I got, oh, they had all the Letzeiser medal students [indecipherable] to get him to come back. And I did, and that was a really nice year. And I worked real hard in my sorority and got all the offices they had to offer. WN: And what sorority did you belong to, Velma? VC: Kappa Kappa Gamma. I don’t know how I knew one from the other because I had never been around people who had been to a university, you know, very much. But I did have a few friends from Ward-Belmont who had gone to OU, and one of them, ones I liked the most had gone into that sorority, so that sort of turned my attention to that, and I enjoyed it. Well, then when I came back here after school… WN: When did you graduate? VC: Oh, let’s see, I graduated from OU in ’31. I finished in ’30, but I got my diploma in ’31, in the spring of ’31. We were up in Missouri at daddy’s camp at the time, and he didn’t want me to go back to Norman. It was too long a trip, so I didn’t get to go to graduation, but I got my diploma. WN: Uh, the camp (Camp Care-Away) was at Galena? VC: Galena, Missouri. It was out from that little town on the river. WN: Is that camp still there today as you know it? VC: I’m not sure. It was such a beautiful little spot, but they built a dam somewhere down the river, the James River, and the government said it would be flooded, so they required mother, at that time because she owned it, to move the camp up on a bluff. Well, that took away the charm of it because it was down there... WN: By the river. VC: By the river and lots of trees where as a bluff is just [indecipherable] beauty. So, she, so I remember John and I went up there to help her get the deal consummated, and, but lots of boys went up there in the summertime. WN: I remember, the DeMolay, so many of the DeMolays. VC: Uh-huh, it was a, it was a big, big thing, and mother worked awfully hard. Well, we all did, everybody worked hard, because they had the program to outline and implement. You had to keep a bunch of folks busy. We were busy, too. WN: It was a great learning experience. VC: Oh yes! It really was for the boys. WN: It was really a Christian. VC: Yes, they were under good influences, and daddy [indecipherable] enjoyed boys, and talking with them and seeing if he could develop them and their personalities and guide them in the right direction. Now I’m trying to think what else you want. WN: I just want you to tell me anything stands out in your mind. Think about what you’d like for your grandchildren to know, you know. VC: Oh, about me? WN: About you and… VC: Well, some, one of them asked me during the Christmas holiday, said, Grammy, tell me something about your childhood. I said, well, while we were eating, I was a little hard-pressed to think of anything, because my life was SO different. WN: He really expected a lot of you, I think. VC: Oh my, did they. When I say children were seen and not heard in my day, I mean literally. That keeps you from being able to communicate. WN: Socially, really. VC: Uh-huh. And Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) and I talked about it. She was, and you know, not to show your emotions when I grew up, no. If you were sad, don’t show it. If you were, don’t act like a hoodlum and laugh all the time, see. I don’t know how to explain it except that children had their place in that era. Well, I, I can’t think of anything that I might have left out. You were talking about games, I can remember as a child playing jacks. Oh, I would wear my fingers out playing jacks. WN: I don’t think I’ve seen any children playing jacks or hide and seek or anything in… VC: NO! And, oh, we had all kinds of games and different parts of the jacks game. I can remember playing marbles. [Indecipherable] used to love to tell about the time I beat him playing marbles, and it made him so mad because a little old squirt of a girl beat him. It was probably just that one time. Anyway, I loved to do that as a child. I really did. WN: Yeah. And they played games like Jack Straws and pick up sticks. VC: Yes, yes. I can remember that, too. Later on, our playing hours were spent practicing the piano. It was a shame I didn’t become a wonderful pianist. Daddy had an organ, and I think he would like for me to have taken that up, so I could entertain him. Mother did play, and she loved it. She used to try to play… WN: I can remember Lyle Thurman coming out here and practicing organ and that was the highlight of his life. And look what led to for Lyle. VC: That’s right. Daddy was good to people…awfully good to people. If they tried to be worthy. WN: This was important to him. VC: Uh-huh it was and that was good training. And that’s why I used to get, inwardly, so upset when I would see the boys smoking after he had given them a hundred-dollar bill to give it up. Daddy was good. Some people… WN: He was trusting. VC: Yes, I think some people tried to work him a little bit, maneuver him, you know, soft-soap him. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. WN: Okay, now then, if you can’t think of anything at this point in time about your early days, tell us about your two sons. VC: Oh, well, I used to say I wanted four children. Well, I thought they were a little bit different than that. I had to settle for two. But I waited a long time to get the second one. It just didn’t happen that way. They were different as daylight and dawn which often the case in families, no two are alike. Rowland (Rowland Lee Collins) was precocious right from the beginning. I don’t whether it was because I had to entertain him so much when he was recovering from surgery on his hands when he'd had the terrible burn. I did spend a lot of time… WN: He fell on the floor furnace. VC: That’s right. A floor furnace, and he was little. He didn’t know to move, see. So, my back was turned when he fell, but when I turned around, see seconds count, why his hands were badly burned. His arm and his face, too, but it was the palms of his hands that were kept there. Nowadays I don’t think you see those floor furnaces. WN: No. VC: And I’m glad they don’t have them anymore. They are very, very bad for accidents with children. Anyway, there was no plastic surgeon in Tulsa or Oklahoma City at the time, so we had to, when he was about two, I could see that his hands were growing and drawing up. So we had to go to St. Louis for plastic surgery at Barnes (ph) Children’s Hospital. WN: [Indecipherable] VC: Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. But then he didn’t have to have any more surgery until he was a teenager. Because his hands were growing, but all this time, see I had to spend a lot of time with him. And he was, had an inquiring mind. WN: Very, very intelligent. VC: I can remember we would take them to opera and I’d get a box of some kind, you know and make the stage and we would make characters and play out the story, so when he was old enough to go to opera, he knew quite a bit about it, very familiar as a high school student at the opera, and we didn’t have that money given in Oklahoma, but he was [indecipherable]. Well, then, when he went off to college, I think there was a Presbyterian preacher who was from the Princeton theological seminary, and we wondering where to send him. He said why don’t you go to Princeton. Well, I hadn’t even thought of that, you know. I didn’t know much about it, but he got in. WN: Well, that was an honor in itself. VC: Right. There wasn’t many, very many students from this part of the country at that time going east as there are now. Well, then when Roger (John Roger Collins) came along, he had that in mind, too, but he was afraid he couldn’t get in, however, he did. So, those were busy years, and I can remember when Roger went off to school, I said, you may not like it, but I think you better go on the train while it’s still going. So when he went to college, he had a roommate, or whatever they call them and went to Princeton and that was the last time he ever did because they began to fail, you know… WN: No more trains running. VC: Right! That’s right. But he went to college on the train. WN: Well, that’s a nice remembrance for Roger. VC: I kind of thought so, too. See, he never did after that. Well, it was my idea. I said, you better go because I don’t think they’re going to last long. WN: Now when did Rowland graduate from Princeton? VC: Oh, let’s see. Fifty-six, I believe. He graduated cum laude, worked. Both of the boys worked while they were there. WN: That’s great. VC: It, I think, we might have managed without, but we barely managed with them working. Because even then… WN: Oh, it was expensive. VC: Those schools were expensive. I can remember, once, they took different types of jobs in school. Roger, I mean Rowland worked in the library and then got to be sort of a secretary for one of the professors, which was wonderful. Roger helped a lady put in her flowerbeds. He did the digging in the dirt and made some good friends that way. I don’t regret it. I think maybe it would have been easier if they hadn’t had to work, but they got through alright, both of them. And they worked, I think it helped really. WN: Tell about Rowland going to England. I think that was wonderful, honestly. VC: Oh, Rowland got some grants that took him to England. He had a trip to Europe that was just fantastic, he and one of his friends. And that’s before there was so much travel in Europe. And that then later years, Sarah, his wife and I, did some of same route that he took. We found it very interesting, rather tiring, because it was so inclusive, but it was great, great. Then he stayed in England one year. He began to find things that were in his field. Now the one thing that Rowland did that was very, very outstanding was that when he began to teach out of college, he got his doctorate degree from Stanford, and I think he was, if not the youngest, the next to the youngest to graduate to get a doctorate’s degree. And John and I had said, well, why not go ahead and get it. We can help you a little bit now, and if you wait until you are married and have kids, by then it will be ten times harder. So, if you can, get it now, well, he did. Then he went to teach in Indiana. Well, Rowland was such an inquisitive mind that he went through some manuscripts in the library. WN: In Old English. VC: In Old English that nobody had ever paid any attention to, hadn’t classified them, even. So that’s when he became interested in these old, old manuscripts. And it became really a part of his well-known honors. WN: Yes, he earned a reputation. VC: Right, he, he at one time had an exhibit in the J. Pierpont Morgan Library in New York of all of these early manuscripts in the United States. WN: Oh my! VC: Well, that was quite a feat, and the catalog described them because nobody had taken the trouble to even learn the English of that old, old day. It was before Chaucer, you see. Before, you think Chaucer is pretty far back. Well, this is before that. I can remember, he went to Princeton one year. He had a scholarship, not a scholarship, but a Guggenheim Grant, something. He was granted entrée to their manuscripts. WN: So that’s an honor in itself. VC: Uh-huh. And they had certain light that you could help decipher what had been there. He really worked hard on that, and then he went to England, even, to study more in their library and had entrée to the British museum. He showed us a little cubicle. It was very, very interesting, and then, of course, he lived there. WN: Man, that is hard work. VC: Oh, yes! And the living conditions, I think they lived on the third floor, no elevator. Shopping, you know, everything was small, the shopping for food had to be done often. You can’t just get a whole bunch of stuff. You have no room to put it. Anyway, Sarah had a grant that year, too, and their daughter went to school in London, you remember. WN: Yes. VC: So that was a nice, nice experience for all of them. I wondered if he didn’t pick up a bug in London. WN: This could have been the start of it. VC: Uh-huh. Now Roger had a good trip with Billy Farha (Bill Farha, Jr.). WN: Yes, to the Middle East. VC: To the Middle East. I look on Roger as being a definite brunette and kind of dark. They described him as a blonde when he was in those countries. They said who’s that blonde with you? Both boys were good in French. I’ve always wanted to be able to speak French fluently. I think it’s a little late now to start, but both of them had a good tongue or lip or something for French. They worked at it, though, because the, Roger I don’t think had ever had any French until he got to college. College French is extremely hard. But he worked at it, and Rowland said his accent was better than his. Well, they were both good enough for me. Anyway, Roger told us about the time that he and Debbie Farha (ph) were on a ship cruising somewhere, and they were off to the, they were sitting at a table, and another group not too far away and they were speaking in French. Well, Roger knew what they were saying, and they were criticizing Roger and Debbie (ph). Roger said he never changed his expression until they got up and left, and then he just turned to them and said something and let them know that he heard every word they said. And knew what they said. Roger’s had experiences, too, in a different way. Rowland’s were in the literary field and he attained lots of honors. WN: And he wrote a book. VC: He wrote a book. He edited several books. He had, I can’t tell you all the honors because they’re in certain fields of literature at Rochester. He was, he was head of the English department there at Rochester for nine years. I don’t think anybody had served that long. Finally, he said, oh mom, I can’t take it any longer. He said all the professors were prima donnas. Some were, you know, pretty high on themselves. Well, they’re experts in their fields. They liked him, though, and he enjoyed it there very much, and it was a shame he had to be taken so young. WN: And how old was he when… VC: Fifty. WN: Fifty when he died. VC: Fifty when died in ’85. And that’s just the height of his career. It’s just one of those things you never will understand, but it happened. So, here I am, minus one son, minus a husband, and I’m going on. WN: Yes, and you still have Roger and he’s done wonderfully well in the business world. VC: Yes, Roger, has different talents. He’s had some fantastic experiences. WN: Tell me some of the companies that he’s, just name some of the companies that he’s worked for. VC: Okay, he worked for Vanply, Inc., which is the subsidiary of Skelly. He was stationed out in, lived out in Washington there for several months. During that time, it seems there was some skullduggery going on in the business and a lot of mismanagement. So, at one time, they sent him to North Carolina, somewhere down there, and the situation was SO bad, here was quite young, I don’t know why they solicited a man so young, but they did. He had to have a Pinkerton man with him everywhere he went. He had to change his motel every night, and it finally got settled, but I think someone was caught, and maybe one man committed suicide over it. I’m not sure, but it was a REAL problem. And Roger was in the middle of it. I didn’t know anything about it until it was all over. WN: Aren’t you glad? VC: I am glad. Another time, I don’t know whether he was, who he was, I don’t think it was Vanply, Inc. then, but he was in Paris and at the airport, the police [indecipherable] came and took him down to police headquarters, and what had happened was, there had been a big jewel robbery, and the man’s name was Roger Collins! His name was Roger Collins! Well, he knew French, and he didn’t know whether that was good or bad, you see, because, he knew things and this man was Roger, John Roger Collins. If Roger were to hear this, he might not think I’m telling it right, but anyway, they took him down to headquarters in Paris. WN: Oh my, how scary. VC: I didn’t know this until it was all over. Rowland told me about it. And they searched him and questioned him for quite a while before he proved that he wasn’t a jewel robbery. You know, well, anyway, that would have scared the wits out of me, and it did to hear about it. WN: Oh, yes! VC: But he came out of it alright, finally, it was another John Roger Collins. Isn’t that amazing? WN: Yes. VC: I don’t think he’s had such hair-raising experiences. WN: But he’s had some wonderful jobs. VC: Yes, when he worked for Parker (Parker Drilling Company), it was very, very pleasant. WN: Tell about the next job or whatever you want to tell. VC: This is a different type of job, not concerned with the oil business like Parker was, but it’s very challenging because they do things with the airplane industry. WN: Alright, now what company is this? VC: This is Nordam. WN: Nordam. VC: Nordam. I’d never heard of it until he began to work for them, but they are a big company. They’ve expanded several times since he’s been working for them, and I think they’re latest project is the hush kit which I think sounds wonderful if it can come to pass in completion. It’s to put on the biggest airplanes to cut the noise down. But it’s very expensive and it’s, it’s complicated. WN: This is for noise pollution? VC: That’s right. I just don’t know the phase of it now, how they’re coming along or…I think there are other companies that would like to have the patent or two, you know. So that brings complications, and anyway, I know he works awfully hard. WN: I know he does, too. And I’m going to stop right now because you have talked… audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0046B_Velma_Collins.xml OHP-0046B_Velma_Collins.xml
Dublin Core
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Title
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Velma Jones Collins - Part 2
Description
An account of the resource
In Part 2 of this 1994 interview with Velma Collins, she talks about her childhood memories, attending school, her music education, attending college, and most extensively about her children, Rowland and Roger.
Identifier
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OHP-0046B
Date
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1994-02-12
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audio
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beae7ac5e22dc21dd4b60cb9df56d792
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Wanda Newton
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Velma Collins
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0046A_Velma_Collins.xml
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5.4 February 12, 1994 OHP-0046A Velma Collins - Part 1 OHP-0046A 00:47:15 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Velma Collins Wanda Newton 1.0:|12(6)|22(7)|31(17)|40(3)|50(6)|64(16)|82(10)|95(5)|107(17)|118(11)|133(10)|156(4)|183(14)|190(8)|201(7)|214(15)|230(5)|248(10)|260(16)|271(5)|295(13)|306(8)|323(11)|350(10)|368(15)|394(3)|417(10)|444(17)|467(8)|485(13)|502(5)|528(9)|556(8)|570(18)|584(4)|606(5)|624(4)|647(18)|660(6)|669(8)|680(3)|698(9)|706(15)|720(5)|734(8)|748(15)|766(6)|768(6) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0046A Collins, Velma.mp3 Other audio 0 The Family Home WN: Wanda Newton. Today is February the 12th, 1994. I’m in the home of Velma Collins who lives north of town. So many people inquire about this lovely, big brick home at the edge of town, so we are going to let Velma tell her story. She can begin with her house.
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 ; VC: My father designed it, and I don’t know who helped him. I wish I had some blue prints that would tell me more about it. But anyway, it’s here, and, by in large, it’s just like he planned it. Very little that’s been done to it…made it a little larger. Mother added a couple of rooms that were advantageous. I was glad, even though they made the house too big for me as an adult and as a widow. Velma talks extensively about their family home that her father built. She not only grew up there, but also moved back there to live after marrying. R.L. Jones ; John Leland Collins ; Noah Shipman ; Frank Winters ; Laurel Hotel ; Turner Turnpike family home ; Collins home 0 855 Relvue WN: Well, tell us about the name, how the name of the pond.
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 ; VC: Oh, yes, that is interesting. It’s Relvue, but it’s not spelled V I E W. It’s spelled R E L V U E, because that was the way my father started it. Now, the first three letters R E L are his initials. His birth name was Robert Edward Lee Jones, and he was named for General Robert E. Lee. Because Lee, General Lee was so revered in the south. But that was too many initials to write all the time, so daddy always signed his name R.L. Jones, and called “Bob”, I think, in the early days rather than Robert. His mother called him Robert. But, and he decided on V U E instead of V I E W. So this place is known as Relvue. Relvue Farm or Relvue Place, I’m not just sure which. I just call it Relvue. 
 ; Velma tells about how the pond, and subsequently, the farm got the name Relvue. Relvue ; R.L. Jones ; Robert Edward Lee Jones 0 1072 Attending School WN: Oh yes. Tell me about that school.
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 ; VC: Well, there was not much grass on that yard there.
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 ; WN: Well, now is it in the same block that Washington School…
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 ; VC: Yes, it was right there. Just right there. And it was a two-story, and we thought it was the enormous, and we thought it was real nice. But one thing I can remember over there, we had a may pole dance. It was the real thing. I don’t know who put it up or who put the streamers, but I can remember in and out, in and out twirling as the music played ‘till we got it woven clear down to the bottom. And I can remember on Friday afternoons, the teacher would read us a book. It would be a continuous thing, each Friday for an hour or so. Velma recalls attending school and some of her teachers and what they learned in the early days. Washington School ; Orva Henkins ; Gladys Banks attending school 0 1217 Other Homes VC: Huh-uh, no cafeterias. And so lunch pails were in order, I’m sure. I can remember then later, we lived on west 11th, and that’s where I learned to skate. There must have been a little sidewalk along there.
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 ; WN: Well now when did you build this home?
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 ; VC: This home?
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 ; WN: Uh-huh.
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 ; VC: This home was built in 1917 and I think over into ’18. But when we lived on west 11th, that’s where I learned to skate. And I can’t remember…
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 ; WN: Which house did you live in on west 11th?
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 ; VC: Oh, along where you lived, somewhere along in there. [Indecipherable] or somewhere right in there. I would go across the alley to school.
 ; Velma recalls living in some other homes around Bristow while their family home was being built.
 ; Clem Brown ; Jim Brown ; skating ; Cushing (Okla.) ; J.F. Sharpe other homes 0 1414 Living Above American National Bank VC: Yes, Mr. Sharpe was superintendent of schools when I came along. And I remember him vividly. And then we lived up over the American National Bank. Now some of those places might have been while this was being built. I’m not sure.
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 ; WN: And where was the American National Bank at that time? Do you remember was it on the corner of 7th?
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 ; VC: Yes, 7th and Main.
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 ; WN: 7th and Main.
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 ; VC: 7th and Main, and like I told you, an interesting thing is that we lived up there and that stairway was so, so high, because the ceilings were high in the bank. And we could look out onto Main Street. Then in later years, after I married, I took my baby Rowland (Rowland Lee Collins) up there, little boy, rather toddler, to see a parade from that same little turret type of room that was there.
 ; Velma remembers living above American National Bank for a short time while their family home was being built. J. F. Sharpe ; American National Bank ; Rowland Lee Collins ; Montford Jones ; Doodle Hamilton other homes ; American National Bank 0 1605 Mock Orange Plant VC: Daddy brought a plant, there’s an old plant out here. I just call it a thorn bush. I don’t know what else to call it. Has mock oranges…
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 ; WN: Oh, yes, right up in the corner.
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 ; VC: But that is from her house out there.
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 ; WN: Well, do you know I took one of your, several of your mock oranges and planted them just down in my wilderness in my front yard, and I’ve got one about this tall. I planted it out there several years ago. And I’ve got another one about that tall.
 ; Velma remembers her father bringing a mock orange plant to their house and planting it, and at the time of the interview, it was still living. mock oranges ; Allie B. Jones mock orange plant 0 1678 Childhood Memories VC: I’d love to see it! I’d love to see it, because I do remember that thing up there in that yard, and I can remember Aunt Allie (Allie Jones) would dress us up, Minna Karl (Minna Karl Ekdahl), Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) and I were the ones that she doted on. And we would wobble around in her old high heel shoes and put the lace over our heads. And I think she took our pictures, there, but I don’t remember if I still have them here or not, but…
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 ; WN: It would be fun if you ever run across any of them, we could copy.
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 ; VC: I know where they probably are…
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 ; WN: And we can put them in the museum.
 ; Velma remembers having fun as a child playing dress up with her aunt, Allie B. Jones. Allie B. Jones ; Minna Karl Ekdahl ; Etta Feild Caves childhood memories 0 1796 Running the Homestead WN: Okay, before we leave the farm now, can you tell me as many names as you can of families or people that have worked out here or lived out here if you can think of any.
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 ; VC: Well, now I can’t remember the names of very many of the coloreds, except, Frank Winters.
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 ; WN: Frank Winters.
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 ; VC: And his wife was named Rosa. And Rosa worked in the house. And then there was another one that waited on tables, on the table and helped in the kitchen. OH! Let’s see, I was trying to think of the name of the cook. But her last name was Jones and her husband. She just lived over in the pasture and Minnie (ph) [indecipherable]. But anyway, she was the cook and you don’t think, well, with one child, you’d have much to do, but there was because daddy always had a lot of company. Always a lot of company.
 ; Velma remembers the various people that lived on the farm and helped run the homestead. Frank Winters ; Rosa Winters running the homestead 0 1952 Noah Shipman VC: Three septic tanks. But you talked about names, see, Noah Shipman was still living when John died. And he had worked for daddy for years and years and years, and reared a family out there.
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 ; WN: Now that’s Betty Wilemon’s…
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 ; VC: Betty Wilemon.
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 ; WN: Father?
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 ; VC: Father. And she grew up out here. So I feel like daddy’s almost apart of the family. And I felt like Mr. Shipman was part of the family, too. He was SO good to me. Velma recalls her close family relationship with Noah Shipman. Noah Shipman ; Betty Wilemon Noah Shipman 0 2016 R.L. Jones Philanthropy VC: No, that was before the camp, long before the camp. The camp came later when daddy was much older. I don’t know just when he acquired that, but that was a big deal.
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 ; WN: And this was…tell just a little bit about his interest in the boys and the…
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 ; VC: Oh, I guess he really missed having a boy in the family, and he always said, like Mr. Kirchner (R.R. “Brick” Kirchner), he said, well, when you help a boy, you help a whole family.
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 ; WN: Mm-hmm.
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 ; VC: Because they do establish a family, and they have that responsibility, so you help many people when you help a boy. He was always giving things to boys. He did not want them to smoke. Some of them betrayed his trust. They promised not to smoke, and then went right into town and did. He also had, what he called, Bob’s Club, I think, in high school. He established a prize or something for the most dependable boy. Velma remembers how much her father helped the community and donated money and other items to the different clubs and organizations. R.L Jones ; R.R. "Brick" Kirchner ; Roger Collins ; Lions Club ; Rotary Club ; PEO philanthropy 0 2303 Family History WN: Alright, while you’re still talking about your father, go back and tell us as far back as you can remember, maybe you know who his father was, you know, so that we’ll have this for a genealogy record, too.
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 ; VC: Oh, okay, well daddy’s mother was one of two girls in, living in Virginia. They were late teens, 16 to 18, I think, somewhere along in there at the time of the Civil War. The father, I think, had passed away in the war, probably. The mother contracted pneumonia, which was almost [indecipherable] then, and she got sick from getting up at all times of the night to give soldiers who would come by, give them food, and died, leaving two girls, no boys, you see. No money, nothing but a house and land with nobody to farm it. She, daddy’s mother, married a doctor from the war. He was in the war, I think, a young doctor. Well, they moved from Virginia which was poverty stricken to Mississippi which wasn’t a whole lot better. He didn’t live too long, but he fathered ten children. Daddy was one of ten. They all lived to adulthood except one, and I think that’s amazing.
 ; Velma recalls some memories of her father's parents and R.L. Jones coming to Oklahoma with his brothers. Virginia ; Civil War ; Mississippi ; B.B. Jones ; Chandler (Okla.) ; Montfort Jones ; R.L. Jones ; Sapulpa (Okla.) ; Cushing (Okla.) ; Drumright (Okla.) ; opera house 0 2771 Bristow Businesses Velma recalls some early Bristow businesses. Community Bank ; Jackson's Meat Market ; Schrader Drug Store Bristow businesses 0 MP3 In this 1994 interview with Velma Collins, she talked extensively about the home her father built and the different people that worked there, along with other various homes she lived in as a child. She also talked about her life growing up in Bristow including attending school, learning to skate and swim, and how giving her father was to the community. WN: Wanda Newton. Today is February the 12th, 1994. I’m in the home of Velma Collins who lives north of town. So many people inquire about this lovely, big brick home at the edge of town, so we are going to let Velma tell her story. She can begin with her house. VC: My father designed it, and I don’t know who helped him. I wish I had some blue prints that would tell me more about it. But anyway, it’s here, and, by in large, it’s just like he planned it. Very little that’s been done to it…made it a little larger. Mother added a couple of rooms that were advantageous. I was glad, even though they made the house too big for me as an adult and as a widow. But I grew up out here, and it didn’t look like it does now, because now, it’s full of beautiful antiques that daddy collected through the years, mainly from New Orleans. And when I came out here with John (John Leland Collins) some twenty years ago, it was full. Daddy bought things, as he said, they are cheaper by the dozen, so he had the house FULL. Mother, getting older, didn’t want to change anything, and we had a time getting rid of some things, but we came out with a lovely, lovely home for us. And I’m just sorry that John didn’t get to enjoy it but one year. I’ve been here twenty years as a widow, and it’s been a lovely setting, and I’m very, very thankful that I’ve had this beauty to look at. WN: How long did long John get to live in this home after you fixed it? VC: John lived here one year to the month. We moved out here in July of 1973, and he died in, no ’72, and he died in July of ’73, to the month. Well, that sort of changed my life considerably, but here I am as an older woman and enjoying the beauty that daddy provided for me, and that John and I assembled. We brought lots of things from our house in town out here, sold a lot of things, gave as much as we could to our children. The form of the house was just like houses were in that day and time, the two-story houses. A bedroom on each corner upstairs and a sleeping porch. Down below the sleeping porch was what they called the sun room or the sun parlor, and that’s the way I still call it when I show the house to people. There was a big dining room and a big living room and a music room, and then a porte-cochere with a circular drive which had to be done away with eventually, because people would come out and just love to go around. Anybody [indecipherable] on their way to and from town. But anyway, mother then added what she called the garden room and enclosed the porte-cochere and made a library out of it. So it’s a pretty good sized house, but it’s full of the previous antiques that they had acquired. And I love them all. They have history behind it, and I never fail to enjoy telling people about it when they’re interested. I don’t want to bore people with all of the details about this and that and the other, but I can remember living out here as a child when it was busy. I was an only child but we always had people around. There was plenty to eat because we had a great big vegetable garden, a huge vegetable garden. We had an orchard. We had cows, Jersey cows. We had all kinds of pets. I can remember through the years, you name it, and we had it…guineas and peafowl. Daddy had little dogs that he loved, and our other dogs all through the years, they were not particularly mine, but they were here for me to enjoy if I wanted to. And then… WN: How about horses? VC: We had horses. There was a horse barn, and I can remember having mules do a lot of work, and they did a lot of work, too, accomplished in one day, Mr. Shipman could tell me things he did in one day now that they’d spend more than that on even when they had machines, which would accomplish the same thing. But, nevertheless, it’s a different story. Then, he did build the swimming pool and all the children in the family loved that. And then he added a tennis court, and I never was very good at anything like that, but then I tried and had fun. No, I had to study when I came along, that’s what children did. WN: Well, wait before you get into that. Tell us a little bit more about the out-buildings and some of the people who worked here in the early days if you can. VC: Alright, there were a number of outhouses, negro families that lived here. One house was not too far from Mr. Shipman’s home, and to this day, I call it the Frank Winters house, because that’s where the colored family lived. And he worked in the fields and farming and so forth. She worked in the house. And then up in the fields it was another house, I’ve forgotten the family that lived up there, but… WN: Was that the little house that still stands up there in the field? VC: Yes, it’s just barely standing. WN: Yeah. Did John used to put hay in it? VC: Yes, uh-huh. But then there was a barn up there. Of course, there was a lot to do out here, really. And, I can remember them killing hogs and mother rendering the lard down in the basement. And I can remember her running the separator down in the basement, so there was never… WN: Now your basement is so interesting. Tell us what the basement is like, because so many people in our community do not have basements. VC: Well, this is a full basement. I mean under all the house except the two rooms that my mother added considerably later. And that makes a pretty good-sized basement. There was one room that was kept locked because it had all kinds of canned goods, not only home can, but bought. Because, as I say, daddy bought things by the case when it came to canned goods, and I can even remember one Christmas when I was an older girl, he filled the fire place up there in the upstairs with canned goods instead of other little things that people usually use at Christmastime, but anyhow. Then I can remember there was one room down there where the separator was, and that took a lot of shelves, and mother worked so hard with that, because there were cans of milk and we had homemade butter. We had homemade buttermilk. And daddy loved clabber, so it was all good eating, I’ll tell you. My mother killed hogs, oh my, the basement was just full of good and bad aromas. But those were busy days and seemed like it was a lot of activity around here because there were so many people. WN: Now did she do her washing downstairs and carried it outside? VC: The laundry room was in the farthest corner of the basement. And she had one of the first manuals, I guess, because it’s an antique [indecipherable]. WN: You still have that in your… VC: Still have it in my basement, and I have thought about getting rid of it and selling it to the company for their old shows, but it’s so heavy, I’ve just left it there. But the clothes were hung out on the line and it was not too close to the house either, over there by Mr. Shipman’s (Noah Shipman) house. At one time, I can remember there was an Englishman who worked here, and he lived up over the garage. There was a little cement walk leading to the cow barn, and the stanchions (ph) are still out there in the that barn, by the way. He just did the milking and took care of the cows. Now I don’t know what else he did, but we had a number of Jersey cows so I think he had a good bit to do. The, uh, what else do you want to know? WN: I know now, tell them about the size of the barn because I think the barn is so interesting. VC: That is a cow barn. It’s huge. In fact, there are three big barns out here. I think the cow barn is not quite as large as the horse barn, the one that’s beyond that. And there was a fourth barn on the east side that burned. WN: I read that in the newspaper. I read an article of it that the R.L. Jones barn burned. VC: Uh-huh. And I can remember, I came home from Tulsa that day and saw the smoke coming up from that and it had just barely stopped being in flames. But daddy said the only thing he could think of was that some hobo was sleeping in there and smoked and caught hay or whatever on fire. There is a barn there but it’s not a big one like the one that was there. So that means at one time four big barns there. Well anyway… WN: Well, now back up. How about your water? I noticed some old watering troughs out there, too. VC: We have several wells on the place. There’s one down by the barn. There’s one right behind Mr. Shipman’s house. And there’s one right here at my back door. [Indecipherable] I don’t know how many, whether there were anymore or not. And, of course, then the big pond down here was for livestock. WN: Okay now before you leave the early time, I remember the little house that used to sit about down there in the area where the Mattox (ph), didn’t the Mattox (ph) live there? VC: Yes, I think the Mattox (ph) lived there. WN: And I don’t know who lived there before them, but… VC: Then there was another little house in that big pasture where the cook and her husband lived. Then there was one down east where the Shattucks…no, I’m not sure. WN: Well, was it the Hinds (ph) Family? Was there a Hinds (ph) Family that ever lived in…was there a two-story house? VC: Yes, that was the house daddy bought in town. I understood that it was the old Laurel Hotel. WN: Oh. VC: That had been my impression all the time that that was the old Laural Hotel that was bought and moved out there. But I heard other reports since then on the hotel and it didn’t include that. So, I don’t know. WN: Well, let me ask you, how far did your land go to the south here? Uh, to 11th Street? VC: Eleventh, no 12th. WN: To 12th Street. VC: Twelfth. WN: Yeah, that’s right. VC: It went to 12th Street. Well, and that’s the way it was. The first intrusion into the plot that daddy bought was the Turnpike. And, of course, we had to have a way to get the cows and they built a tunnel of some kind for the cows to come through. And then it was so low, it filled up with water and they didn’t like it, so I think daddy had to build another pond up there. It brought problems. Well, then (Highway) 16, you see, divided that, and so that’s when the industrial buildings went up over there. Because one good pasture, there was no water, divided the pond and the house. But I had always thought that my two boys would settle here some day and I found out there that they all have their own interests. And, so, I’m here. WN: Well, tell us about the name, how the name of the pond. VC: Oh, yes, that is interesting. It’s Relvue, but it’s not spelled V I E W. It’s spelled R E L V U E, because that was the way my father started it. Now, the first three letters R E L are his initials. His birth name was Robert Edward Lee Jones, and he was named for General Robert E. Lee. Because Lee, General Lee was so revered in the south. But that was too many initials to write all the time, so daddy always signed his name R.L. Jones, and called “Bob”, I think, in the early days rather than Robert. His mother called him Robert. But, and he decided on V U E instead of V I E W. So this place is known as Relvue. Relvue Farm or Relvue Place, I’m not just sure which. I just call it Relvue. WN: Do you know how many acres it entailed originally? VC: Yes, I think it was at least 600, maybe a little more, I’m not just sure before all this came. But it soon dwindled when you get highways to it, because you have to give them right-of-way…so many feet. WN: And then I remember when they built the big lake up there. That was on… VC: Oh yes, that is half on Relvue and half on the, on the Kellys. And the conservation or soil conservation people take care of that. I’m glad because I don’t even get up there very often. But that was a good thing, I know. The best conservation, I mean that has brought the best results really to this part was some of the dams up there from the bigger lakes. I can remember, one time only, when we were marooned out here. Believe it or not, it doesn’t look high, but we were surrounded by water. It was frightening. We were… WN: This little creek, Sand Creek? VC: Uh-huh. It was just solid water all down in the valley, little valley there and all out there, nothing but water! We couldn’t have gotten out except [indecipherable]. And I can remember one time when I was a girl, we had so much snow, that we couldn’t get me to school, so the Meeks (ph)…you remember them? WN: Oh yes. With the diary out there. VC: Yes, they came by in a boat and took me a round about way to school over on the east side. WN: The old high school over there? VC: Old, two-story, I think sandstone block house and I know when I got there, I think my hands were so cold, they were really frost-bitten. Oh, the teacher worked on them for a long time because we were just icy from the time we got…it was slow going, horse and buggy in deep snow from here over there. That was a long trip. But I have memories of that school, do you want me… WN: Oh yes. Tell me about that school. VC: Well, there was not much grass on that yard there. WN: Well, now is it in the same block that Washington School… VC: Yes, it was right there. Just right there. And it was a two-story, and we thought it was the enormous, and we thought it was real nice. But one thing I can remember over there, we had a may pole dance. It was the real thing. I don’t know who put it up or who put the streamers, but I can remember in and out, in and out twirling as the music played ‘till we got it woven clear down to the bottom. And I can remember on Friday afternoons, the teacher would read us a book. It would be a continuous thing, each Friday for an hour or so. I remember Gladys Banks was one I recall, very vividly, that she had a nice speaking voice and she was a good, good teacher. And I can remember Orva Henkins over there, and she, we learned math, too. But the rooms were quiet. There was no gum chewing. There was no chittering. It was all business. But, we learned, and of course, that building burned. And, I can’t remember where I went to school while other arrangements were being made, but I do remember going to school over there. WN: Did you take your lunch or did you come back home for lunch? VC: I just don’t remember but we probably took it, you know, it was quite a deal. WN: Because they didn’t have cafeterias. VC: Huh-uh, no cafeterias. And so lunch pails were in order, I’m sure. I can remember then later, we lived on west 11th, and that’s where I learned to skate. There must have been a little sidewalk along there. WN: Well now when did you build this home? VC: This home? WN: Uh-huh. VC: This home was built in 1917 and I think over into ’18. But when we lived on west 11th, that’s where I learned to skate. And I can’t remember… WN: Which house did you live in on west 11th? VC: Oh, along where you lived, somewhere along in there. [Indecipherable] or somewhere right in there. I would go across the alley to school. WN: Did you live across the street from Clem Brown? Is that where…and your mother’s brother, didn’t he live in Eleanor’s, didn’t he live in a brown house there? VC: I can’t remember that. No, I don’t remember Clem living there. I remember Jim Brown, her brother’s wife lived on near where the school gym is now in one of those houses. I think the one that’s been moved away. WN: Yes, I remember them living there. VC: But I can’t remember Clem living there. I doubt it, he was probably in the army. I know he was in the army, but I know I learned to skate there, because I had too many holes in my long black stockings. Every time I fell down there would be a hole. And, of course, I wore button shoes, high button shoes, and black. Then I had some white lace ones that were a little high, too. And I can remember wearing navy blue surge (ph) mini blouse and pleated skirt. I think that must have been the uniform almost because we wore it so much. WN: And your hair was black then? VC: Oh, yes, it was. My hair was really dark, dark, dark. I always had a lot of it then, too. But those were fun days. And I can remember going through the alley over to the school where, I don’t know what building, I don’t remember that. WN: Let’s see, when did you graduate? When were you born, Velma? VC: I was not born in Bristow, but I was born in 1906, and then but we moved here from Cushing in 1913, I think, yeah 1913. WN: And you lived first then on 11th Street. VC: I think so, but we had lived in another white house, not the two-story white, but where the old motel was. There was a one-story, white house that we lived there a while. WN: Oh, you mean, on Main Street? VC: On Main Street. WN: Next to the Carmans? Did you live next to Neva? VC: Uh, yes, seems there was something between that two-story white house. WN: Mr. Sharpe (J.F. Sharpe) then lived… VC: Yes, Mr. Sharpe was superintendent of schools when I came along. And I remember him vividly. And then we lived up over the American National Bank. Now some of those places might have been while this was being built. I’m not sure. WN: And where was the American National Bank at that time? Do you remember was it on the corner of 7th? VC: Yes, 7th and Main. WN: 7th and Main. VC: 7th and Main, and like I told you, an interesting thing is that we lived up there and that stairway was so, so high, because the ceilings were high in the bank. And we could look out onto Main Street. Then in later years, after I married, I took my baby Rowland (Rowland Lee Collins) up there, little boy, rather toddler, to see a parade from that same little turret type of room that was there. WN: Well at that time did they have lawyers and dentists and everything up there. VC: Yes. WN: And then the apartments, too. VC: Yes, up there. And that’s where we lived up there, was in an apartment. But I don’t think that was long. Probably while this house was being built. That’s my recollection. WN: But you didn’t, that was the last place you lived before you moved here, then to this house? VC: Well, either that or the little white house there on Main. I can’t, I can’t remember the move itself out here. I don’t know how I got here, but it didn’t make an impression on me. I guess I didn’t, didn’t have much to do with it, you know. I was probably too little. But I can remember going into the Montfort Jones house that was where Doodle Hamilton’s house is now in that first house, I can remember going into that old… WN: Well, I thought it was on the corner where the parking lot. VC: No, well, it, no it was where the garden was. WN: Oh, where the garden was. Oh, okay. VC: The garden, she had the garden to outline the old house. WN: I see. VC: That was… WN: The iris garden and all those gardens… VC: [Indecipherable] and you remember she had the little pergola out there… WN: Yes. VC: And all kinds of flowers. That’s what followed the outline of the old stone, block house, which is comparable to the old Abraham house, you see. WN: I can kind of remember that, just vaguely. VC: And that house had a little turret in it, too. My daddy was so sentimental, he, when that house was torn down, he brought those stone blocks out here in the pasture right now from that early… WN: I remember carrying one of those stone blocks. They were so big and heavy, but well cut, and putting it out at my picnic site out there and made a step out of it. It was a beautifully cut stone. VC: Yes! They worked on it, and it might have been just old [indecipherable] sand stone but they worked until they got it nice looking pieces of… WN: Oh, they are beautiful blocks. VC: Daddy brought a plant, there’s an old plant out here. I just call it a thorn bush. I don’t know what else to call it. Has mock oranges… WN: Oh, yes, right up in the corner. VC: But that is from her house out there. WN: Well, do you know I took one of your, several of your mock oranges and planted them just down in my wilderness in my front yard, and I’ve got one about this tall. I planted it out there several years ago. And I’ve got another one about that tall. VC: Oh, that’s wonderful! WN: I know, but I didn’t realize that that came from Ms. Jones’ house. VC: That’s from her house, and I can remember always avoiding that thing because the thorns, you know quite long… WN: Oh yes. VC: And vicious looking, and I’m sure they are vicious feeling cause I have trouble getting who want to prune that. WN: Well, I just took some of the little orange balls and planted them around, and I thought well maybe something will grow. And I noticed last year, I had one in amongst some other things where it shouldn’t be, but it’s about that tall. But I just have to plant wherever I can find the space between the rocks. VC: Oh, I’m glad it is something. WN: I’ll show it to you sometime. VC: I’d love to see it! I’d love to see it, because I do remember that thing up there in that yard, and I can remember Aunt Allie (Allie Jones) would dress us up, Minna Karl (Minna Karl Ekdahl), Etta Feild (Etta Feild Caves) and I were the ones that she doted on. And we would wobble around in her old high heel shoes and put the lace over our heads. And I think she took our pictures, there, but I don’t remember if I still have them here or not, but… WN: It would be fun if you ever run across any of them, we could copy. VC: I know where they probably are… WN: And we can put them in the museum. VC: But we had lots of fun up there, all the children. She was good to the children and daddy was good to all the children. I can remember swimming in some natural little [indecipherable] down there in the pasture. You know where the bridge is? WN: Yeah, where the bridge is, there’s a perfect little place. VC: Right in there. I think that was the original swimming pool out there before this one. WN: It must have had more water at that time. VC: Yeah, more water, I’m sure. And I think the contour was different. It’s changed probably. WN: Yeah. VC: But I know there enough water there that we could go swimming there, but not all the time, but some at least it was... WN: Well it’s such a pretty area there. VC: Uh-huh. It was more natural looking then than it is now. I can remember, I didn’t want to learn to swim. They had to make me learn to swim. I was afraid of the water. [Indecipherable] used to help me when we would go out on church picnics. That was a big deal. I’d go with the Baptist out to some creek that was a lovely spot, and we’d get on the tire swings and go out over and drop off. Oh, I didn’t ‘cause I was little and scared. But it was fun, it was fun. WN: Okay, before we leave the farm now, can you tell me as many names as you can of families or people that have worked out here or lived out here if you can think of any. VC: Well, now I can’t remember the names of very many of the coloreds, except, Frank Winters. WN: Frank Winters. VC: And his wife was named Rosa. And Rosa worked in the house. And then there was another one that waited on tables, on the table and helped in the kitchen. OH! Let’s see, I was trying to think of the name of the cook. But her last name was Jones and her husband. She just lived over in the pasture and Minnie (ph) [indecipherable]. But anyway, she was the cook and you don’t think, well, with one child, you’d have much to do, but there was because daddy always had a lot of company. Always a lot of company. WN: Your mother always cooked. VC: Oh, and she was, she was there to see that it was done right and do most of it. There weren’t many meals in the morning of cold cereal. There were cooked breakfasts, and I mean meals, hot biscuits. Daddy loved hot biscuits. We had three times a day! So ham that you had cured, chicken. WN: Now your chickens were right behind the house in this area here. VC: I think so. WN: And then all those sheds there were for wagons and tools? VC: All… WN: Tractors? VC: No, I don’t think there were many tractors, but the implements like the old plows, and store hay, you see. WN: And you had your own water tower? VC: Oh yes, because we had these wells, and I remember that was, not always an easy thing, because sometimes it wouldn’t, it’d use too much, you know, and we had to keep it going right. And then mother went to the city, and that didn’t work either. There were always troubles, so now I’m on city water with no trouble. There were days when we wouldn’t have… WN: Now are you all on sewage now? VC: No. I have septic tanks. WN: Septic tanks. VC: Three. WN: Three septic tanks. VC: Three septic tanks. But you talked about names, see, Noah Shipman was still living when John died. And he had worked for daddy for years and years and years, and reared a family out there. WN: Now that’s Betty Wilemon’s… VC: Betty Wilemon. WN: Father? VC: Father. And she grew up out here. So I feel like daddy’s almost apart of the family. And I felt like Mr. Shipman was part of the family, too. He was SO good to me. Here I was, see, left with this big place on my hands and he had been here for a long time. He came, originally, from Missouri. Daddy got him and brought him down here. And I don’t know whether, how many of the children were born in Bristow, probably daddy would… WN: Well, did he meet him through your, his camp… VC: No, that was before the camp, long before the camp. The camp came later when daddy was much older. I don’t know just when he acquired that, but that was a big deal. WN: And this was…tell just a little bit about his interest in the boys and the… VC: Oh, I guess he really missed having a boy in the family, and he always said, like Mr. Kirchner (R.R. “Brick” Kirchner), he said, well, when you help a boy, you help a whole family. WN: Mm-hmm. VC: Because they do establish a family, and they have that responsibility, so you help many people when you help a boy. He was always giving things to boys. He did not want them to smoke. Some of them betrayed his trust. They promised not to smoke, and then went right into town and did. He also had, what he called, Bob’s Club, I think, in high school. He established a prize or something for the most dependable boy. Now that was later, because I think Roger (Roger Collins) was in high school when that came. The school would have given it to Roger, but we didn’t want Roger to accept it, because it looked too much like it had been rigged. WN: It wasn’t fair though. VC: No, it wasn’t fair to Roger, but anyway, that’s the way it was, so he had to take it, bless his heart. Daddy was real good, real interested in boys, and I supposed he should have had a dozen. WN: Well, he did so many things for the community that people didn’t even know about. VC: That’s right. I came across an article, an old newspaper article the other day when it was talking about that he had established these scholarships, no that wasn’t the term, for the Lion’s Club and the Rotary, gave them each $10,000, which was a big sum… WN: [Indecipherable] VC: And they were to give scholarships for people who needed it to go to school. I think he gave PEO a small scholarship. WN: How much? VC: We’re still using it. It’s intact. In fact, it hasn’t grown much because we keep the money going the interest going. But I don’t think the Rotary and the Lion’s Club, they don’t have their money. WN: I don’t know where they have the money. I think Rotary still has a scholarship. I don’t know if they have that original amount. VC: I don’t either. I don’t either. When he gave that Legion Hut, that was a BIG, BIG donation. WN: Oh my. Such a wonderful thing for the community. VC: I think so, too. And I wished it could be used more, but maybe it could be worked out some, some day. There was a grand piano there, I remember at one time. There was an enormous grand piano in the high school auditorium. WN: Well, it’s still there. VC: I wonder if it’s still going, but then I still have the piano that I practiced on, the same make, as the one daddy gave everywhere. WN: I don’t think that grand piano has ever been replaced on that stage. It’s been on that stage ever since I can remember. VC: Really? WN: Still there. VC: Well, that’s good, that’s good. I can remember one time that, I didn’t know about it, ‘cause daddy never did tell me. You know, I came up in the era where children should be seen and not heard, so if I heard anything, I never said anything about it. But he gave typewriters to students here in town, because I had one of the Farha girls… WN: Oh I think Jeff Jordan and [indecipherable] and all those kids. VC: So he, daddy just loved to do things like that. WN: And he was very thrifty about everything he did. VC: Oh yes, yes. And he was great on kids learning to keep books. He liked that. WN: It was good training. VC: And it really was ‘cause he had, I can remember, down in the basement in the big room, and I mean, as you mentioned, that basement was a pretty big size. There was plenty of room for a big table with lots of boys around. Anyway… WN: Alright, while you’re still talking about your father, go back and tell us as far back as you can remember, maybe you know who his father was, you know, so that we’ll have this for a genealogy record, too. VC: Oh, okay, well daddy’s mother was one of two girls in, living in Virginia. They were late teens, 16 to 18, I think, somewhere along in there at the time of the Civil War. The father, I think, had passed away in the war, probably. The mother contracted pneumonia, which was almost [indecipherable] then, and she got sick from getting up at all times of the night to give soldiers who would come by, give them food, and died, leaving two girls, no boys, you see. No money, nothing but a house and land with nobody to farm it. She, daddy’s mother, married a doctor from the war. He was in the war, I think, a young doctor. Well, they moved from Virginia which was poverty stricken to Mississippi which wasn’t a whole lot better. He didn’t live too long, but he fathered ten children. Daddy was one of ten. They all lived to adulthood except one, and I think that’s amazing. WN: It is amazing. VC: Of course, that was in day when the doctors were paid with chickens and eggs and so forth. The mother taught school and many a times with a pallet over in the corner of the room and the latest baby. It was hard, hard going. Well, somehow, the early boys, the older boys in that early day got out to Oklahoma. That was B.B. (B.B. Jones) and him. They, they were in Chandler and then they got to Bristow. I’ve forgotten all the details of that and got into oil. The older one, B.B., had married and Montfort had married Mrs. Montfort Jones. They had many, many dry holes. I think Mrs. Montfort Jones put her widow’s money, she had been married before and her husband had died, money, last money into it, and that was when they struck oil. Then they had good luck. WN: Isn’t that wonderful. VC: But those were hard days. WN: Well, now did your father, did R.L marry your mother before he came to Oklahoma or… VC: No. My mother was from Mississippi, too, and she’s a cousin, a third cousin or fourth or something of Mrs. Montfort Jones. She came out visit her cousin. WN: Oh. VC: She married her cousin’s brother-in-law. Of course, Montfort was one of the older boys. Daddy was one of the next to the youngest ones. Mother and daddy lived in Sapulpa for a while, because he was [indecipherable] assistant county treasurer. I’d always heard treasurer, but then, anyway, then somehow, he got into business with his brothers. But in the meantime, he married this cousin of his brother’s wife. And daddy and mother lived in Cushing for a while. It was pretty primitive. Mother said it was awful. She can remember riding in a wagon with an old colored man from Cushing to Bristow, and it was ghastly, she said. The ruts were horrible and the wagon wasn’t comfortable, but anyway, they, now that was near Drumright, I think. Well, then they got to Cushing and then that’s when I entered the picture, because I was living across the street, but anyhow. Then they got over here to Bristow, and daddy was working with his brothers and acquired some means of his own. That’s where he stayed. The other brothers tried it and most of them left. Mother’s brothers, too, and sister lived here a long time. But not many of them stayed. WN: I know your father was successful, very successful. VC: Yes, he was successful on his own, and he said he didn’t think he did much. But I told him he did. I thought he had good sense. WN: Now he had the office down there where the old Chevrolet place is. Did he have an office downtown before that that you can remember of? VC: No, I can’t, I can’t remember anything before that. But he built that building I think. At one time we lived up there. And that was maybe while they were working on this house, too, I don’t know. But there were lots of people that lived up there. He had some school teachers. WN: Kind of a boarding? VC: Yes, uh-huh. I can remember that. I don’t know who had it unless it was Mrs. Jim Brown, might have had it up there. But later, she had a house of her own, so she was a widow of Jim Brown. I can remember they were living up there when I married because John came up there to see me when he was courting me. I think we must have moved from there out here. That was a busy building, you see, three stories, and it was pretty roomy. WN: Did you happen to remember the opera house? VC: No, I don’t remember the opera house. When I was a little girl, I heard the older people talking. WN: I think it burned before you probably came. VC: Right. And this is one thing I do remember about the opera house, I’d had my tonsils taken out, my operation. Well, this little girl’s mind connected the word opera and operation, and I made the statement, mother loved to tell this on me, that I said well isn’t it a shame that the opera house burned down. I could have had my operation there. Anyhow, but I don’t remember it, really burning, but I do remember these other places we lived. WN: Alright, now then, are there any businesses that stand out in your mind as a child that you went to, like a, I remember Mrs. Klingensmith had a millinery. VC: Yes, and [indecipherable] store. I can remember that. WN: A department store. VC: Seems to me there were some stores, so many of them are gone now, where the Community Bank is, there were some stores where we used to go. Then I remember Jackson’s Meat Market. You remember that? WN: Yes, and they made deliveries. VC: Right. Then I can remember Schrader Drug Store. I can remember the movie house. Oh my goodness, that was one thing I did get to do was to go to the movie every Saturday afternoon. I can’t remember, but there was these Syrians, and oh we looked forward to that. Diamond Mind or something like that. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0046A_Velma_Collins.xml OHP-0046A_Velma_Collins.xml
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Title
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Velma Jones Collins - Part 1
Description
An account of the resource
In this 1994 interview with Velma Collins, she talks extensively about the home her father built and the different people that worked there, along with other various homes she lived in as a child. She also talks about her life growing up in Bristow including attending school, learning to skate and swim, and how giving her father was to the community.
Identifier
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OHP-0046A
Date
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1994-02-12
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audio
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/c2bf850aabebc4aaa435bdf1304215af.jpg
04114e85f430f18634f82d254c40707d
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Family Histories
Type
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Oral History
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral accounts of various family histories
Source
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Tommy Thompson
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0076_Tommy_Thompson.xml
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6.0 August 19, 2025 OHP-0076 Tommy Thompson OHP-0076 00:01:07 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Tommy Thompson Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0076 Thompson, Tommy.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 19, 2025 and I'm here with Tommy Thompson at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and what it's been like living and working in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 00:24
 ; Tommy Ray Thompson.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:26
 ; And do I have permission to record this interview? 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 00:28
 ; It depends on what your questions are.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:31
 ; Okay. Well, we'll see how it goes. Please tell me when and where you were born.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:37
 ; So, was that at the, was it the Sissler Clinic? Is that what it was called? 
 ; Tommy Ray Thompson was born on January 20, 1948. He was born in Bristow, Oklahoma at the Sissler Clinic. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Tommy Ray Thompson ; Sissler Clinic Birth 0 54 Parents Regan Siler 00:54
 ; Okay, okay, um, well, let's start by talking about your family. Can you tell me your parents full names?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 01:02
 ; My mother's name was Pauline Agnes Hill Thompson. Later she remarried her with most people near as Pauline Clowers. My dad was Ray Junior Thompson, and they divorced when I was in the second grade. So pretty much raised by a single mom.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:26
 ; Single mom, okay. And I have her birth date as April 29, 1923 and she passed away, January 13 of 2020. Is that correct?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 01:37
 ; Yes.
 ; Tommy's mother was Pauline Agnes Hill Thompson. She later remarried and most people knew her as Pauline Clowers. Tommy's father was Ray Junior Thompson. Tommy's parents divorced when he was in the second grade. He was raised by a single mom. Pauline Agnes Hill Thompson ; Pauline Clowers ; Ray Junior Thompson Parents 0 119 Sister Regan Siler 01:59
 ; In that general, okay, and that's fine. Did you have any siblings?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 02:04
 ; Yeah, I have a half sister that I found out.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:07
 ; Oh, wow!
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 02:07
 ; Years and years later when I graduated high school and made a connection with her after quite a few years, and we're very close now. And she, she she and my wife, Connie, are best friends or sisters, so it's been really a good connection.
 ; Tommy ended up connecting with a half-sister after high school. Tommy says she and his wife are best friends now. His sister moved to Bristow and was the principal of Washington Elementary. She later moved to St. James, Missouri and became principal and eventually the superintendent of schools there. Bristow (Okla.) ; Washington Elementary School ; Carrie Tucker ; St. James (Mo.) Sister 0 170 Childhood in Bristow Regan Siler 02:50
 ; Wow! Okay, so did you grow up in Bristow your your whole
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 02:55
 ; Yep.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:56
 ; Okay. So did you have family living near you growing up?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 02:59
 ; Yeah, I had aunts and uncles posted on every street corner in Bristow.
 ; Tommy lived in Bristow all of his childhood. One of Tommy's homes was an apartment by the Post Office. Tommy had lots of family in Bristow. He spent a lot of time at his grandparents' home before and after school. Tommy loved swimming at the Silver Plunge pool when he was young. Bristow (Okla.) ; Gussie Hayes ; Larry Slawson ; Jack Wagner ; Wagner Hardware ; Silver Plunge ; Ken McCormick ; Betty McCormick ; Kenna Jean McCormick ; Dale Hill ; Randy Travis Childhood 0 481 School Regan Siler 08:01
 ; Oh, that's awesome. Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I know you told me you attended Bristow Public Schools for 12 years, minus a little stint of about 12 weeks in Texas in the second grade. Can you tell me while at Bristow Public Schools, do you remember having any particular influential teachers?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 08:24
 ; Mr. Reader, Jimmy Reader was the PE teacher. And, you know, I remember almost all my teachers. First grade was Mrs. Jordan. Second grade, Ms. Wilson. Third grade, Ms. Jackson. Fourth grade, Ms. Walters. Fifth grade, Mrs. Reid. Sixth grade, Mrs. Cunningham. Then in between those we had Mrs. Holcomb to teach art so many days a week, and Mrs. Sanders teach music, and probably had a paddle used on me by each and every one of them.
 ; Tommy attended Bristow Public Schools for all of his school life except for about twelve weeks that he spent in Texas in the second grade. Tommy remembers most of his teachers and says that most of them probably used a paddle on him. He loved going to school in a small town. Tommy really enjoyed math. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Texas ; Jimmy Reader ; Mrs. Jordan ; Ms. Wilson ; Ms. Jackson ; Ms. Walters ; Mrs. Reid ; Mrs. Cunningham ; Mrs. Holcomb ; Mrs. Sanders ; Bill Gurley ; Neva Gurley ; Edison Elementary School (Bristow, Okla.) ; Mrs. Frump ; American Legion Baseball School 0 729 Community Activities Regan Siler 12:09
 ; Okay, well, thinking back to, like, town life and growing up here, what were some of your favorite community activities? And, you know, a lot of people talk about like Western Heritage days and camps and parades and stuff like that. Is there anything that you can recall community wide that you enjoyed?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 12:32
 ; Well, you know, the parades that we had, Western Heritage days was fun. But, you know, just being in a community was an everyday thing. You know, it was you cross Main Street, I don't know how many times when you were young. One year, my Great Aunt Lorene Mercer (ph), she and Jack Chapman opened up C& ; M Clothiers, and it was a men's clothing store, and I worked part time for them during the Christmas holidays.
 ; Tommy enjoyed the parades that happened in Bristow when he was young. He also says that Western Heritage Days was fun. Western Heritage Days ; Main Street (Bristow, Okla.) ; Lorene Mercer ; Jack Chapman ; C& ; M Clothiers Community Activities 0 807 Bristow Businesses Regan Siler 13:27
 ; Well, that's neat. Well, that was going to be my next question was, what were some of the biggest, or I don't know, most popular businesses, or maybe your some of your favorite businesses around town growing up, like, what are your, what are your memories of that?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 13:40
 ; The first one that flashes to me was Strong's.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:43
 ; Strong's?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 13:44
 ; Yeah, it was a retail store between Eighth and Ninth Street, and you go in and Polly Parrot shoes and Buster Brown shoes, and and you go in there and to get your shoe size, they had an x ray machine that you stood and put your feet up under, and it would measure your feet. And it's really funny to see your feet and bones underneath it. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:09
 ; Wow!
 ; Tommy's great aunt opened a men's clothing store with Jack Chapman. Tommy worked part time there during the Christmas holidays. Tommy remembers going to Strong's as a child and them having a machine that measured your feet. His mother worked at the Safeway for 25 years. Tommy also recalls Groom's Cafe, Highway Cafe, Anchor Drive In and Hamburger King. C& ; M Clothiers ; Strong's ; OG& ; E ; Boerstler Brothers ; Curtis Gillis ; Bruce Phillips ; Billy Farha Jr. ; Safeway ; Groom's Cafe ; Highway Cafe ; Hamburger King ; Anchor Drive In Bristow (Okla.) ; Business 0 1076 Teen Town Regan Siler 17:56
 ; So, did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 17:59
 ; Yeah, Teen Town, teen town. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:02
 ; So, tell me about that.
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 18:03
 ; Mrs. Harvey, her son was Leslie Harvey, and a couple years older than I, but she started a teen town. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:11
 ; So, where was that located? 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 18:12
 ; The first one was at Eighth and Main, next door to where the hardware store is, and it was in that building and had a little balcony in it, and had pool tables and, or a pool table and music playing.
 ; Tommy's favorite hangout as a teenager was at Teen Town. Mrs. Harvey started it. She had a son, Leslie Harvey that was a couple years older than Tommy. It had pool tables and live music. Tommy also mentions the two movie theaters that Bristow had, The Princess and The Walmur. Teen Town ; Leslie Harvey ; Mrs. Harvey ; Chevrolet automobile ; Cunningham Chevrolet ; Jack Wagner ; Billy Sumner ; The Princess ; The Walmur ; Connie Marie Mann ; Strong's ; Bill Wilkinson ; Nita Wilkinson Teen Life 0 1224 Music Regan Siler 20:24
 ; Well, I want to ask, too, because you mentioned music. What, what was your favorite kind of music back then? Like, can you what were some of the artists you listened to? 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 20:43
 ; Oh God. [Undecipherable] The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Righteous Brothers, Johnny Rivers. You gotta remember, I'm 77, I'm just fog up here.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 21:02
 ; No, that's okay. No, that's like all the all the good stuff.
 ; Some of Tommy's favorite music was The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Righteous Brothers and Johnny Rivers. He remembers Jack Wagner's group, the Drifters opening for Mitch Rhyder and the Detroit Wheels. Beatles ; Rolling Stones (Rockabilly group) ; Righteous Brothers ; Johnny Rivers ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Jack Wagner ; The Drifters ; Mitch Ryder ; Detroit Wheels (Musical group) Music 0 1308 Train Depot Regan Siler 21:48
 ; I want to ask, too, do you have happen to have, I mean, I know, and we'll get into this, I know you were the president of the Historical Society for a few years, and I'll ask you about that in in a little bit. But do you have any memories of the train depot as a youngster, or anything, any goings on down there, like, what are your memories of the train depot?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 22:09
 ; Well, we only we lived two apartment buildings west, or, I'm sorry, east, of the Seventh Street, between Seventh and Sixth, where the train station was, and my memory of it is two or three things. Number one, I could count on that train to help me going to sleep every night about 1030. It was just part of coming through town. They used to have a post outside the station with a wire on it, and they would attach a package that was, and as a train would come through, somebody would reach out and grab the package.
 ; Tommy says that he counted on the train to get him to sleep every night about 10:30. He remembers an older gentleman waiting at the train station for his brother to return from war. His brother was killed in action in World War II. Bristow Train Depot ; Kell Kelly Train Depot 0 1433 First Car 
 ; Regan Siler 23:53
 ; Well, do you remember, do you happen to remember your first car?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 24:00
 ; Yeah, my dad and I reconnected my first year of college, and he bought me an old 1958 Volkswagen, and it was great, as long as you were going down the hill or flat. When you had to go up a steep hill
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 24:26
 ; Did you have to "Fintstone" it?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 24:27
 ; Get your oars out and start rollin.
 ; Tommy's first car was a 1958 Volkswagen. Tommy and his father had reconnected his first year of college and he bought it for Tommy. Ray Junior Thompson ; Volkswagen automobiles Automobile 0 1491 Entertainment Regan Siler 24:51
 ; Oh, that's funny. Oh, that's a good one. Um, so growing up, do you remember what kind of entertainment you enjoyed? Like, I don't know from maybe TV programs, or I don't know if you listen to the radio a lot?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 25:10
 ; You know, the entertainment was at home, was TV and radio, and during the summer, baseball season, every night, I would listen either to the Cardinals on their station or on KVOO, and listen to the Oilers, Tulsa Oilers baseball team. Lynn Morton, Matt Krieger (ph), and one other gentleman. And I mean, I would listen to those games, especially when they went out to the Western Time Zone or Mountain Time Zone. So, it went a little bit later. But TV every Saturday morning, you know, and all the funny shows. I Love Lucy was a blast, and watched Ed Sullivan Show, yeah, good times.
 ; Tommy says that his entertainment was TV and radio. He says that during the summer it was listening to the baseball season on the radio. He loved all of the funny shows on television like I Love Lucy and Ed Sullivan. Cardinals (baseball) ; KVOO radio ; Tulsa Oilers ; Lynn Morton ; I love Lucy (Television program) ; Ed Sullivan show (Television program) ; Matt Krieger Entertainment 0 1558 Childhood Dreams and College Regan Siler 25:58
 ; Okay, as a child or a youngster, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 26:05
 ; Oh, yeah, teacher and a coach.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 26:07
 ; Really? 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 26:08
 ; Yeah.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 26:09
 ; Well, you managed to achieve that, didn't you? Okay? So, I know we discussed, you attended college, and it was an interesting chain of events of college. So, tell us about your college experience.
 ; Tommy wanted to be a teacher and a coach when he grew up. He started college at OSU but did not take it seriously. The next year he drove back and forth with Bill Sumner and Kenneth Dale to Northern Junior College in Tonkawa. He then married his wife, Connie and shortly after received his draft notice. Tommy was planning on starting school at TU when he was drafted. After returning from war, he went to school at Tulsa Junior College. From there he went to Northeastern State University and received his BS degree in psychology and counseling, business education. Barry West ; Bill Sumner ; Kenneth Dale ; Northern Junior College ; Tonkawa (Okla.) ; Sinclair ; Connie Marie Mann ; Safeway Stores, Inc. ; Fort Polk (La.) ; University of Tulsa ; army ; Fort Lenoard Wood ; Tulsa Junior College ; Tulsa Community College ; Northeastern State University (Okla.) College 0 1796 Teaching Regan Siler 29:56
 ; Okay, okay, well, I know when we had visited before, I know you've had a lot of different teaching jobs. So, if you could touch on your earlier teaching jobs with maybe more of an emphasis on, you know, when you landed in Bristow and what you taught here.
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 30:17
 ; Yeah, I'd been coached, taught and coached for two years at Nathan Hale High School, and ended up going to Edison, transferred over there, and to get the assistant football job I wanted, I had to take the head swimming coach's job. And there's, yeah. There was Bristow ties, believe it or not, coaching swimming. The head swimming coach at Memorial was the son of Frank Sanders, Jim Sanders, and Mr. Sanders was our principal. And respected him, and I was afraid of him, too. I really respected him, and I knew Jim, and on my swim team, my first swim team, Christian Wagner's (ph), mother, was the daughter of my junior English teacher, Mrs. Lipe (ph), and it was just a and Christian was
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:20
 ; So, you're saying like the stars aligned for you to come back to Bristow just because you had all the different connections there?
 ; Tommy started his teaching degree at Nathan Hale High School. He was there for two years, teaching and coaching. He then transferred to Edison in Bristow. He says to get the assistant football job, he had to take the head swimming coach position. Later in his teaching career he became the high school counselor. Nathan Hale High School ; Edison Elementary School (Bristow, Okla.) ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Frank Sanders ; Jim Sanders ; Christian Wagner ; Mrs. Lipe ; Darold Ritchie ; Dr. Carmichael ; Air Force Academy ; West Point ; Calvin Foster ; Senate Teaching 0 2192 Wife Regan Siler 36:32
 ; No, it's okay. It's okay. If you think of it, we'll come back to it. But, I would like to move on to and talk about your family a little bit. I know you mentioned your wife, Connie. Can you tell me her full name and date of birth?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 36:45
 ; Her full name is Connie Marie Mann. She was born July 29, 1950.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 36:51
 ; July 29th?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 36:53
 ; Yes.
 ; Tommy is married to Connie Marie Mann. She was born on July 29, 1950. He had Richard Worley introduce him to Connie and that is how their relationship began. They were married at the First Baptist Church in Bristow on September 6, 1968. They were married only a few months when Tommy was drafted. Connie Marie Mann ; Richard Worley ; First Baptist Church (Bristow, Okla.) ; Larry Slawson ; Gail Greer ; Marines ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Tulsa Community College ; National Bank of Tulsa Wife 0 2348 Daughters and Grandchildren Regan Siler 39:08
 ; Right, right, and then you have, I know you have, two children. Can you tell me their names and dates of birth?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 39:16
 ; Heather and Hayley. Heather [Heather Thompson Charles] is the oldest. Her birthday is November the 27th.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:26
 ; I have November 28,1972.
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 39:28
 ; I'm one day off.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 39:29
 ; Yeah, yeah.
 ; Tommy has two daughters, Heather Thompson Charles and Hayley Rae Woodson. He has three grandchildren-two granddaughters (Emily and Megan) and one grandson (Tyler.) Heather Thompson Charles ; Hayley Rae Woodson ; Oklahoma County (Okla.) ; District Attorney ; Oklahoma City (Okla.) ; Central University (Edmond, Okla.) Children ; Grandchildren 0 2470 Retirement from Education Regan Siler 41:10
 ; Didn't have any challenges. No, that's good. That's a good deal. Have you enjoyed being retired? Do you have any hobbies?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 41:18
 ; Yeah, when I retired from education, I worked at American National Bank, Spirit Bank, now for four years or so. And it, it was okay. I was making a good, a lot of, definitely a lot more money than being in education, and somebody from Express Personnel called me and asked me if I'd be interested in opening an Express office in Bristow. So, I left banking and did, and did that for six or seven years, and ended up being a region manager, and, you know, I just, education is what I loved, and I just couldn't get into it, and I had a fall and back of my head, and ended up, about six months later, having a hematoma taken off, so I left Express. And a year later, I started with the Jim Thorpe Association, which also has the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame. And I did that for three years, and we started our own organization, the guys that were on my board, called Tulsa Sports Charities. We did that for about 14 years, or I did it for 14 years, until I retired from it, and I didn't take a salary from it, and I was able to do other things to do it, but God, we had so much fun. Our our goal was to make a lot of money, have fun doing it and give it all away. We gave away. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 43:21
 ; That sounds fun!
 ; After retiring from Education, Tommy worked at the American National Bank (now SpiritBank) for about four years. He then opened an Express office in Bristow. He had that for about six or seven years and became a region manager. Tommy later started with the Jim Thorpe Association, which has the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame. After three years, they started their own organization, Tulsa Sports Charities. He did that for about fourteen years. American National Bank ; SpiritBank ; Jim Thorpe Association ; Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame ; Tulsa Sports Charities ; Fellowship of Christian Athletes ; Special Olympics ; Tom Osborne ; Barry Switzer ; University of Oklahoma (Tulsa, Okla.) ; Oklahoma State University ; University of Tulsa ; Tulsa World Retirement 0 2763 President of the Historical Society Regan Siler 46:03
 ; Well, that's cool. Well, I want to talk a little bit about your local accomplishments,too. I know you mentioned you were president of the Bristow Historical Society for three years. And, I know I asked about the depot in your early memories. What about your, your memories during that time at the depot?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 46:24
 ; You know, we were just in the beginning, and it was just organizing the meetings.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 46:34
 ; Trying to get everything set up?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 46:37
 ; You know, and people agreeing to do this. We had a great committee. I mean, Mrs. Chadderdon was on it. Dang, here I go. I don't want to start giving names I can't remember. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 46:48
 ; No, it's okay.
 ; Tommy was the president of the Bristow Historical Society. He did this for three years. He organized meetings, did fundraising and reached out to get the community involved at the depot. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Mrs. Chadderdon ; Gene Autry ; Bristow Chamber of Commerce Bristow Historical Society 0 2874 Running Regan Siler 47:54
 ; Well, you also told me that after your heart attack, that within six months you had run the Tulsa Run, and then tell me about your, you got into running, and then tell me about your friendship, running here and the Wildflower Run, and how all that came about. 
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 48:13
 ; I had a heart attack in '84 and went through Saint Francis Cardiac Care Unit, where the you had people that were trainers that knew, and it was treadmill or bicycle, and then you had class on how to change your diet and just easy things to get you involved to make a change.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 48:40
 ; A positive change.
 ; Tommy ran the Tulsa Run six months after he had a heart attack in 1984. He says that he went through the Saint Francis Cardiac Care Unit and they helped him start training and learning how to change his diet. When Tommy moved to Bristow, he started running with Kell Kelly and Chip Cooper. They ran together for 17 years. Tommy helped Chip start the Wildflower Run in 1988. Tulsa Run ; Wildflower Run ; Saint Francis Cardiac Care Unit ; Dr. Earl Bachenberg ; Dermatologists ; Kell Kelly ; Chip Cooper ; Bristow (Okla.) Running 0 3081 Bristow Education Foundation Regan Siler 51:21
 ; Yeah, and then you had also mentioned, I wanted you to tell me, just touch on the Bristow Education Foundation, and I know we talked about, like the free throw contest, Cadet Lawman. Can you tell me about those few things?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 51:37
 ; There's two things that I was really proud of is, number one, is the Bristow Education Foundation. I was a counselor to high school, and you get a monthly newsletter from the technology centers, and I got one from Tulsa Tech, and there was, going up there, was going to have a seminar on how to start an Education Foundation. And I went in and talked to Bill Stephens, the principal, about going to that. And I said, you know, I think the best person I can think of right now that would be a good to help me with it would be Jim Masters. So, we got permission from Dr. Carmichael to look at the possibility. That's the way it started. Jim and I got it started, and before that, the other thing I was really proud of, is the dressing facilities out at the football field were still the same as when I was there back and, I mean, it was almost like a place where you put POWs. I mean, that's how,
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 52:52
 ; Yeah, right.
 ; Tommy played a big part in starting the Bristow Education Foundation. He had help from Jim Masters. Tommy was also responsible for getting much needed upgrades to the Bristow sports facilities. Bristow Education Foundation ; Cadet Lawman ; Tulsa Tech ; Bill Stephens ; Jim Masters ; Tom Alexander ; Calvin Gentry ; Tommy Herman ; Bobby Ledbetter ; Chuck West ; Larry Parish ; Tommy Parish ; Eddie Weiberdink ; Barry Switzer ; Ken McCormick ; Onions Martin ; LeForce Field House ; Bill Farha ; Senator Boren ; Chuck West Field House ; Elks Lodge ; Darold Ritchie ; Cadet Law Academy ; Burns Flat (Okla.) ; Teresa Westhaver Bristow Education Foundation 0 3636 How the World is Different Regan Siler 1:00:36
 ; Yeah, okay, well, I'm going to switch gears just a little bit. Um, I would like to ask you, um, how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a kid or younger?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 1:00:52
 ; It's not a good world right now. There's just too many, too much hate going on. It makes me sad.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:01:05
 ; Well, even listening to you talk about the community getting involved in the activities of like, the what you did at the football field, like, I miss that. I miss the involvement. So I
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 1:01:18
 ; You're doing it right now.
 ; Tommy says it is not a good world right now. He feels there is too much hate going on and that makes him sad. Tommy does not like all of the division in the world today. Vietnam ; Afghanistan ; Iraq ; Donald Trump ; Andee Cooper ; God ; Connie Marie Mann World 0 3942 Wisdom Regan Siler 1:05:42
 ; Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, so on that note, I'm going to ask you one final question. Is there any thing else that you would like to tell us about or share any wisdom that you would like to share with for future generations?
 ; 
 ; Tommy Thompson 1:05:57
 ; Just listen to the song by Louis Armstrong. What a Wonderful World. You listen to that song. If you don't get goose bumps, if you don't get a tear in your eye, you know, that tells you everything.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 1:06:10
 ; Right. You know, I like it. Well, you've given us a great interview. I appreciate it. Your interview will be an important part of the Oral History Archives for the museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it.
 ; Tommy finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. He says to just listen to the Louis Armstrong song "What a Wonderful World." He says if you don't get goosebumps or a tear in your eye that that tells you everything. Louis Armstrong ; WWI ; WWII ; Civil War ; Klingensmith Park Wisdom 0 MP4 Tommy Thompson recounts his life in Bristow, Oklahoma. Born January 20, 1948, Tommy discusses his family, including his mother Pauline Clowers and half-sister. He shares memories of growing up, including playing at the Silver Plunge swimming pool and attending Bristow Public Schools. Tommy details his involvement in sports, teaching, and community activities, such as being a founding member of the Bristow Wildflower Run and the Bristow Education Foundation. He also reflects on his military service, college education, and contributions to the community, including endowing scholarships and upgrading sports facilities. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.800 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is August 19, 2025 and I'm here with Tommy Thompson at the Bristow Library Annex. He's going to tell us a little bit about his life and what it's been like living and working in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:26.445 Tommy Ray Thompson. 00:00:26.445 --> 00:00:28.000 And do I have permission to record this interview? 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.600 It depends on what your questions are. 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:37.000 Okay. Well, we'll see how it goes. Please tell me when and where you were born. 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:37.340 So, was that at the, was it the Sissler Clinic? Is that what it was called? 00:00:37.340 --> 00:00:51.000 I was born on January 20, 1948, and the hospital that used to be located at Eighth and Main. 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.100 Sissler [indecipherable] or something like that. 00:00:54.100 --> 00:01:02.380 Okay, okay, um, well, let's start by talking about your family. Can you tell me your parents full names? 00:01:02.380 --> 00:01:26.545 My mother's name was Pauline Agnes Hill Thompson. Later she remarried her with most people near as Pauline Clowers. My dad was Ray Junior Thompson, and they divorced when I was in the second grade. So pretty much raised by a single mom. 00:01:26.545 --> 00:01:37.465 Single mom, okay. And I have her birth date as April 29, 1923 and she passed away, January 13 of 2020. Is that correct? 00:01:37.465 --> 00:01:37.644 Yes. 00:01:37.644 --> 00:01:45.549 And then I know we had discussed your your dad, and there was, we maybe weren't completely confirmed on his birth date. 00:01:45.549 --> 00:01:53.650 It's August the, I think it was yesterday, August the 18th, 1927. 00:01:53.650 --> 00:01:58.140 Okay. Because I had looked it up and I found August 14, which I thought was odd. 00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.280 I know it's in that 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:04.200 In that general, okay, and that's fine. Did you have any siblings? 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.140 Yeah, I have a half sister that I found out. 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:07.480 Oh, wow! 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:26.139 Years and years later when I graduated high school and made a connection with her after quite a few years, and we're very close now. And she, she she and my wife, Connie, are best friends or sisters, so it's been really a good connection. 00:02:26.139 --> 00:02:29.159 Well, good deal. 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:50.580 And matter of fact, she and her husband moved here to Bristow, and she was the principal of Washington Elementary before moving on back to her husband, Carrie Tucker's hometown in St James, Missouri, and she went up there as principal and eventually superintendent of schools there. 00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:55.784 Wow! Okay, so did you grow up in Bristow your your whole 00:02:55.784 --> 00:02:56.025 Yep. 00:02:56.025 --> 00:02:59.985 Okay. So did you have family living near you growing up? 00:02:59.985 --> 00:03:05.025 Yeah, I had aunts and uncles posted on every street corner in Bristow. 00:03:05.025 --> 00:03:08.400 Well, that's good. You probably couldn't get away with much, could you? 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:50.000 Yeah, I got in trouble, but I always got caught. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, I grew up during the elementary years, I stayed with my grandparents a lot, and before school and after school, and one of the best things that happened was the next door neighbor to my grandfather and grandmother was Larry Slawson. And Larry and I knew each other since we were two-years-old. Don't remember what it was like at two-years-old, but I noticed, I know that's about when we we started playing together and still do. 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.000 So, where was your house located growing up? 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:53.199 The post office? 00:03:53.199 --> 00:04:00.015 We lived, being a single mom, we lived in three or four different places. We lived in the post office apartments that Gussie Hayes (ph) and his wife used to own. Gus did vending machines, and we lived 00:04:00.015 --> 00:04:26.285 It was across the street from the where the police station used to be, on Eighth Street, just a half a block, well, between Main Street and Chestnut. 00:04:26.285 --> 00:04:27.420 Okay. 00:04:27.420 --> 00:05:03.944 And there used to be a cotton gin that was active when we lived there. And Mr. Bishop, I believe, owned it, and some of the bins would be filled with cotton, and he let me go in there and play on these big stacks of cotton. The place where he weighed the wagons that come in with the cotton was a big scale, and our building that we lived in was there and had a big brick wall and went there was no trucks there, I'd go out there with my ball and glove and throw it off the building. 00:05:03.944 --> 00:05:04.785 Oh, okay. 00:05:04.785 --> 00:05:37.720 And Jack Wagner (ph), another good friend of mine, lived down the street, and I still have his nickname, still is Sheriff. He used to ride his bike up to the police station and stand guard outside with his little pistol wrapped around his waist. His dad was Jack Wagner (ph), and that owned Wagner hardware at the time, and Jack was a heck of a musician. He was quite talented with the piano, and 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:39.639 You're the dad or the son? 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.759 Oh, no, Jack, Jr., yeah. 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:43.420 Your friend, yeah. 00:05:43.420 --> 00:06:00.579 One of my best friends, yeah. He was very talented, very talented. In fact, the old band that he used to play with when our 50th, 1966 reunion, they all got together again, except for one that had passed away, and played and sang at our reunion. It was pretty cool. 00:06:00.579 --> 00:06:08.665 So, then you as a youngster, you had friends around, you were riding your bikes doing all kinds of kid stuff. 00:06:08.665 --> 00:06:11.605 Yeah, yeah. That's just, I mean 00:06:11.605 --> 00:06:13.000 What was your favorite thing to do as a youngster? 00:06:13.000 --> 00:07:15.490 As a youngster, really, what was great was the Silver Plunge swimming pool out in the city park. Was the biggest swimming pool in the southwest. That was what it was touted as. And my mother was able to get me a season pass, and during the summer, ride my bicycle up Seventh Street and coast in to the Silver Plunge and pat the concession stand, you know you had to have ticket to get in. They knew me. The McCormicks rented at that time, Ken McCormick and BB, his wife and two other daughters, Betty McCormick and Kenna Jean McCormick (ph). And Betty became my aunt. My uncle, Dale Hill, and she got married. And Betty passed away at an early age with cancer, and but swimming all day, you know, all afternoon in swimming pool with all the friends that were there, getting up on the tower and acting like a fool, getting the whistle blown at me by the lifeguard. 00:07:15.490 --> 00:07:16.000 Getting in a little bit of trouble. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:32.139 Yeah, but, and then the neatest thing was, when I got through swimming, I had to ride up a little bit of the hill there, and when I hit the top of Seventh Street, is like that Travis can't even Country and Western singer. 00:07:32.139 --> 00:07:32.180 Travis Tritt? 00:07:32.180 --> 00:07:32.875 Randy Travis, maybe? 00:07:32.875 --> 00:07:43.759 Yeah, no, no, no, no. He was before Travis Tritt, yeah. But anyway, his song is like this bicycle and, you know, no hands, yeah, going down a big hill, Mrs. Jones. 00:07:43.759 --> 00:08:01.180 Yeah. Randy Travis, yeah, okay. I love that song. It reminds me. And when I go down Seventh Street Hill, Mrs. Jones had a big mirror hanging up in the front room, and you could see yourself just fly by. 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:24.740 Oh, that's awesome. Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about your school life. I know you told me you attended Bristow Public Schools for 12 years, minus a little stint of about 12 weeks in Texas in the second grade. Can you tell me while at Bristow Public Schools, do you remember having any particular influential teachers? 00:08:24.740 --> 00:09:05.284 Mr. Reader, Jimmy Reader was the PE teacher. And, you know, I remember almost all my teachers. First grade was Mrs. Jordan. Second grade, Ms. Wilson. Third grade, Ms. Jackson. Fourth grade, Ms. Walters. Fifth grade, Mrs. Reid. Sixth grade, Mrs. Cunningham. Then in between those we had Mrs. Holcomb to teach art so many days a week, and Mrs. Sanders teach music, and probably had a paddle used on me by each and every one of them.. 00:09:05.284 --> 00:09:07.504 Did you enjoy school? 00:09:07.504 --> 00:09:10.429 Oh God, it was great going to school in a small town. 00:09:10.429 --> 00:09:19.200 Did you have any favorite subjects or things that you really maybe excelled at? 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:36.419 I really enjoyed math with our math teachers that we had. And Mrs. Wilson, the second grade teacher was she was just pleasant. She taught like she was one of you. 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:48.480 Right? Did you have Mrs., did you, I I'm thinking about this because I just interviewed Bill Gurley this last time, and his mother was Neva Gurley. Did you have her? 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:53.279 Yes and no comment. 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.860 Did you struggle in her class? 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:57.720 I could not keep my head above the water. 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:11.779 Oh, no. Well, I thought it was funny because she was an older lady at the time, and she was my husband's algebra tutor. Well, I think she taught a lot of kids. 00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:29.299 Oh, she did, yeah, and she taught fast. It's like you've seen sometimes people on TV were at the chalkboard and they're putting up numbers up there and they're erasing as they go. 00:10:29.299 --> 00:10:30.200 Keep up. 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:38.945 Actually, my mom thought it would be better for me if I went to her summer school, and it still wasn't better. 00:10:38.945 --> 00:10:39.899 Oh no. 00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:59.100 But I, you know, the teachers that I had at the in school were just, you know, when second grade, part of the year I was in at Edison, and Mrs. Frump (ph) was the second grade teacher, and I, all the teachers in elementary school were just great. 00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:08.440 So, on up into, say like, I guess, it was probably junior high at the time, junior high and high school, were you involved in any, like, activities or sports, or anything? 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:39.565 Sports, to be quite honest with you, they were like having a dad around. I played football. I played basketball. I ran track. Basketball, and in high school, we had a team my junior year, and we wore the old American Legion baseball uniforms that was probably made in the 40s or 50s, very baggy, heavy. 00:11:39.565 --> 00:11:41.664 Probably hot, too. 00:11:41.664 --> 00:12:00.850 Yeah, and I remember we had a game the same day we had a track meet in Bristow, and I ran track. And as soon as I got my three races down, I put my uniform in and just walked over the through the fence where the baseball field used to be behind the football field. 00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:03.669 Because you had to clock in over there. 00:12:03.669 --> 00:12:09.500 Football and basketball were, you know, that's what I really enjoyed. 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:32.764 Okay, well, thinking back to, like, town life and growing up here, what were some of your favorite community activities? And, you know, a lot of people talk about like Western Heritage days and camps and parades and stuff like that. Is there anything that you can recall community wide that you enjoyed? 00:12:32.764 --> 00:13:13.370 Well, you know, the parades that we had, Western Heritage days was fun. But, you know, just being in a community was an everyday thing. You know, it was you cross Main Street, I don't know how many times when you were young. One year, my Great Aunt Lorene Mercer (ph), she and Jack Chapman opened up C&M Clothiers, and it was a men's clothing store, and I worked part time for them during the Christmas holidays. 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:14.000 As a teenager? 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:27.080 Yeah, yeah. And help a lot of the men in Bristow come in. I'd help them with the sports jackets and things, Yeah, it was fun doing it. Even learned how to wrap packages for Christmas. 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:40.940 Well, that's neat. Well, that was going to be my next question was, what were some of the biggest, or I don't know, most popular businesses, or maybe your some of your favorite businesses around town growing up, like, what are your, what are your memories of that? 00:13:40.940 --> 00:13:43.460 The first one that flashes to me was Strong's. 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:44.205 Strong's? 00:13:44.205 --> 00:14:09.904 Yeah, it was a retail store between Eighth and Ninth Street, and you go in and Polly Parrot shoes and Buster Brown shoes, and and you go in there and to get your shoe size, they had an x ray machine that you stood and put your feet up under, and it would measure your feet. And it's really funny to see your feet and bones underneath it. 00:14:09.904 --> 00:14:10.865 Wow! 00:14:10.865 --> 00:14:18.065 And actually, my wife, when she was in high school, she was one of the bookkeepers up there. 00:14:18.065 --> 00:14:18.784 Oh, really? 00:14:18.784 --> 00:14:42.409 And I worked at OG&E as a janitor for my sophomore year through my, till I graduated as cleaning the Main Street office and then their warehouse over on Ninth Street, I believe. It used to be OG&E, and I think it was a beer warehouse once and a feed store, and I don't know what it is now. 00:14:42.409 --> 00:14:45.779 So, you had a work ethic from an early age? 00:14:45.779 --> 00:14:52.860 Yeah, yeah. And actually, the job that I had at OG&E paid for my first year of college. 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.600 Wow! 00:14:53.600 --> 00:16:19.174 And, I mean, I worked for Boerstler Brothers whenever they needed help unloading train cars and so on. Funniest story about Boerstler Brothers is it was Clifford, Spencer, myself, Curtis Gillis and Bruce Phillips. We're unloading a semi truck with the cab gone. They just parked the trailer, and there was five pound bags of sugar and big, you know, cases of pickles and things. And we got dollies, and when we come off the truck trailer, we had a big metal plate that we could go over to get it inside the warehouse. And I'm pulling, I think it was Bruce Phillips, and I'm pulling him across to keep it level. And he's got a, you know, 80 pounds of sugar on it. And we got into the middle of that plate. That trailer started, and all of a sudden, when we got more than halfway, it just flipped. Lost sight of Bruce. Clifford was standing in the back of it, or, you know, towards the front, and he got him, Bruce ended up in the very front end. 00:16:19.174 --> 00:16:20.195 Oh my goodness! 00:16:20.195 --> 00:16:27.980 Billy Farha, Jr was the bookkeeper inside, and he'd come running out, you know, because it sounded like 00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:33.539 What the world?! Yeah. Did you have a favorite place to eat out in town? 00:16:33.539 --> 00:17:08.359 You know, my mother and I, you know, she worked at Safeway for 25 years, wrapping meat. And there were some nights when she got home, she was tired, and it was Grooms Cafe. And when I was in high school, a lot of us in high school would go to their back room and she'd have our order already set out for us. I always had a hamburger and french fries, you know, and it's mostly that, and and my mom would go in every week, like the other parents, and pay for the food and Highway Cafe. 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.884 I remember people mentioning Highway Cafe, but Groom's Cafe. Where was that located? 00:17:12.884 --> 00:17:40.000 It was between Highway Cafe on Eighth Street on the west side of Main, halfway in between the Eighth and Ninth Street. And my favorite place was, obviously, the Anchor Drive In. And years ago, there was Hamburger King at South Main. And between Anchor and Hamburger King, they were the best hamburgers ever. 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:56.200 Yeah, I've heard a lot about Hamburger King too. Yeah. You know, and a lot of restaurants and cafes during that period of time always had bowls of peanuts, you know, as a little appetizer or snack, because we were the peanut capital of the world right back then. 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.920 So, did you have a favorite hangout as a teenager? 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.140 Yeah, Teen Town, teen town. 00:18:02.140 --> 00:18:03.160 So, tell me about that. 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:11.545 Mrs. Harvey, her son was Leslie Harvey, and a couple years older than I, but she started a teen town. 00:18:11.545 --> 00:18:12.684 So, where was that located? 00:18:12.684 --> 00:18:30.490 The first one was at Eighth and Main, next door to where the hardware store is, and it was in that building and had a little balcony in it, and had pool tables and, or a pool table and music playing. 00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:33.000 So, was it just a place for teens to go and hang out. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.420 Hang out. 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:34.779 They need something like that now. 00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:52.079 And then we moved over to Ninth Street. There was, when the Chevrolet building, Cunningham Chevrolet was there, there was the alley, then right next to it, it was an old white building. 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.819 Is that where, like, the the retirement community is now, okay. 00:18:56.819 --> 00:19:13.380 Yeah, there was a white building there, and it had a nice, big room, and had another separate room where there was a pool table. And that's when music started becoming live during our period of time. Jack Wagner (ph) and Billy Sumner (ph). 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:14.640 Oh, so they would come and play? 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:14.880 Yeah. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.119 Awesome. 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:22.380 They they would play there, and you had to pay $1 or two to get in, and it was fun, yeah. 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.680 So, I'm guessing, and they had, like, dancing and stuff like that, too? 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:26.880 Yeah, and 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:27.660 That's neat! 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:28.440 Oh, it was fun. 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:31.200 I wish they had something like that, that now for kids. 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.579 It was a big hangout. 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.720 Yeah, and it was this, like a teacher that did this? 00:19:35.720 --> 00:20:24.049 No, she was just a citizen, like, you're volunteering here with the, yeah, with the Historical Society. And she just, I think she may have been paid a little bit because some, you know, we were charged admission, but it was, yeah, and I got to grow up when we had two theaters downtown, The Princess and The Walmur. Then we had a drive in theater out east or west of town. And, a matter of fact, the summer before we got married, I worked during the day with Sinclair Oil Company as a roustabout, and Connie was still working at Strong's. And then we both worked for Bill and Nita Wilkinson that every night at the drive in theater to save up money for a honeymoon. I had a blast. Bill Wilkinson, bless his heart, passed away just a couple three months ago, and Nita is still doing well. But man, we had some great movies out there. 00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:43.430 Well, I want to ask, too, because you mentioned music. What, what was your favorite kind of music back then? Like, can you what were some of the artists you listened to? 00:20:43.430 --> 00:21:02.075 Oh God. [Undecipherable] The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Righteous Brothers, Johnny Rivers. You gotta remember, I'm 77, I'm just fog up here. 00:21:02.075 --> 00:21:05.960 No, that's okay. No, that's like all the all the good stuff. 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:48.545 And yeah, we used to go to Tulsa to watch them play at the old Convention Center. Simon and Garfunkel really went see them. And the Righteous Brothers were there, and they had a band that warmed up that was just really cool. They played, I I Want Candy or something like that. But Jack Wagner's group, the Drifters, the Drifters, was a warm up band for a big dance at the convention center, and it was Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, which was another popular band back then. 00:21:48.545 --> 00:22:09.000 I want to ask, too, do you have happen to have, I mean, I know, and we'll get into this, I know you were the president of the Historical Society for a few years, and I'll ask you about that in in a little bit. But do you have any memories of the train depot as a youngster, or anything, any goings on down there, like, what are your memories of the train depot? 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:50.984 Well, we only we lived two apartment buildings west, or, I'm sorry, east, of the Seventh Street, between Seventh and Sixth, where the train station was, and my memory of it is two or three things. Number one, I could count on that train to help me going to sleep every night about 1030. It was just part of coming through town. They used to have a post outside the station with a wire on it, and they would attach a package that was, and as a train would come through, somebody would reach out and grab the package. 00:22:50.984 --> 00:22:51.525 Are you serious? 00:22:51.525 --> 00:23:32.775 Yeah, it was pretty cool. Then there was a elderly gentleman whose brother was killed in action in World War II, and every day when the train came through Bristow, even if, when the passenger train would stop here, and after that, it was just the freight trains going through, he would come down, walk across Main Street near, he lived where Base Funeral Home (ph) next door to it used to be, and walked down to the train station hoping that his brother would be coming in. 00:23:32.775 --> 00:23:35.480 I think I remember Kell [Kelly] telling me about him. 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:47.359 It was in, he collected string, and I never saw it, but I was told that he had a huge ball of string in his house. He was quiet, nice 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:50.720 But he kept thinking his brother was going to return? Aww. 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.660 Yeah, yeah. 00:23:53.660 --> 00:24:00.299 Well, do you remember, do you happen to remember your first car? 00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:26.144 Yeah, my dad and I reconnected my first year of college, and he bought me an old 1958 Volkswagen, and it was great, as long as you were going down the hill or flat. When you had to go up a steep hill 00:24:26.144 --> 00:24:27.345 Did you have to "Fintstone" it? 00:24:27.345 --> 00:24:29.384 Get your oars out and start rollin. 00:24:29.384 --> 00:24:30.559 Yeah. 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:51.180 And one of the things that happened, I swear this happened. I lived in East Bennett Hall at Oklahoma State my first year of college, and a bunch of the guys there went out while I was gone and picked that up and put it up in the bushes. Carried it up a little bit of slope. I don't know how the hell they did it? 00:24:51.180 --> 00:25:10.900 Oh, that's funny. Oh, that's a good one. Um, so growing up, do you remember what kind of entertainment you enjoyed? Like, I don't know from maybe TV programs, or I don't know if you listen to the radio a lot? 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:58.585 You know, the entertainment was at home, was TV and radio, and during the summer, baseball season, every night, I would listen either to the Cardinals on their station or on KVOO, and listen to the Oilers, Tulsa Oilers baseball team. Lynn Morton, Matt Krieger (ph), and one other gentleman. And I mean, I would listen to those games, especially when they went out to the Western Time Zone or Mountain Time Zone. So, it went a little bit later. But TV every Saturday morning, you know, and all the funny shows. I Love Lucy was a blast, and watched Ed Sullivan Show, yeah, good times. 00:25:58.585 --> 00:26:05.890 Okay, as a child or a youngster, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:26:05.890 --> 00:26:07.809 Oh, yeah, teacher and a coach. 00:26:07.809 --> 00:26:08.230 Really? 00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:09.130 Yeah. 00:26:09.130 --> 00:26:22.420 Well, you managed to achieve that, didn't you? Okay? So, I know we discussed, you attended college, and it was an interesting chain of events of college. So, tell us about your college experience. 00:26:22.420 --> 00:26:42.338 Do I have to? You could probably asked Barry West. He was my roommate. First year in college, did not go well at all. Was not very smart about attending classes. 00:26:42.338 --> 00:26:44.000 You weren't very focused, maybe? 00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:40.069 No, I wasn't. OSU asked me not to come back. And the next year, I drove back and forth with Bill Sumner and Kenneth Dale to Northern Junior College in Tonkawa, and did, had a lot more focus, and ended, did a lot better. And the next summer, I worked for Sinclair, as I told you, and Connie and I got married September the 6th in 1968. And I was 20. She was 18. Three weeks or so after we were married, I got my draft notice, and so I was starting to TU, and I hadn't, school hadn't started yet. I had to go to TU and, you know, get out. 00:27:40.069 --> 00:27:41.319 Right. 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:53.380 I stocked at a Safeway store at 51st and Harvard, from 11:00 at night to 7:00 in the morning until through October and November and left for Ft. Polk December 2, 1968. 00:27:53.380 --> 00:27:57.519 And how long were you in the service? And you were in the army, correct? 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:31.359 Drafted into the army. I served 21 months. If you if your ETS came within 90 days and you were going to go back to college, the army would give you a 60 to 90 day early out. And my enlistment date was December the 2nd, and I started school in early September, so my last station was at Fort Leonard Wood, and that was. 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:43.900 And then when you came back, did you go to TJC? Is that what you said? Yeah, it's TCC now, but back then, and it was TJC, right? Yeah. 00:28:43.900 --> 00:29:45.069 You know, I learned my lesson. I mean, every night that I was in Vietnam, I thought about why didn't you go to class? And married now, and I was going to go back to TU, but during that period of time, from the spring until I got out in the fall, Tulsa Junior College (Tulsa Community College) opened. And it was in the old Sinclair building at about 11th and Main, I think, or Boston. And, it was like a reunion of Vietnam veterans all going there on the GI Bill. It was crazy, right? And maybe I was in their first graduating class. There's 22 of us. And from there, I went to Northeastern State University and got my BS degree and in psychology and counseling, business education. 00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:47.049 And you were there a couple years, correct? 00:29:47.049 --> 00:29:48.910 I was at Northeastern two years. 00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:49.450 Two years. 00:29:49.450 --> 00:29:56.799 And then I went back and drove for another year and not quite a half, and got my Master's Degree there. 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:17.259 Okay, okay, well, I know when we had visited before, I know you've had a lot of different teaching jobs. So, if you could touch on your earlier teaching jobs with maybe more of an emphasis on, you know, when you landed in Bristow and what you taught here. 00:30:17.259 --> 00:31:20.410 Yeah, I'd been coached, taught and coached for two years at Nathan Hale High School, and ended up going to Edison, transferred over there, and to get the assistant football job I wanted, I had to take the head swimming coach's job. And there's, yeah. There was Bristow ties, believe it or not, coaching swimming. The head swimming coach at Memorial was the son of Frank Sanders, Jim Sanders, and Mr. Sanders was our principal. And respected him, and I was afraid of him, too. I really respected him, and I knew Jim, and on my swim team, my first swim team, Christian Wagner's (ph), mother, was the daughter of my junior English teacher, Mrs. Lipe (ph), and it was just a and Christian was 00:31:20.410 --> 00:31:26.599 So, you're saying like the stars aligned for you to come back to Bristow just because you had all the different connections there? 00:31:26.599 --> 00:32:19.549 No, it's because I loved Edison. I wouldn't trade it for the world and, hell, as a matter of fact, I still got kids that keep in touch with me. But in '84 in April, I had a heart attack, two heart attacks, and first one was at home, got to the hospital. Second one was when I was in the hospital and ended up having a bypass and didn't go back to school to finish the year. And, the next year, I got out of coaching and went back to teaching, and we're already making plans on moving to Bristow, and wasn't planning on taking a high school counselor's job because I didn't know it was open at the time. We took over the 7-11 on South Main. 00:32:19.549 --> 00:32:22.730 And, see, I even forgot about that. 00:32:22.730 --> 00:33:03.140 Yeah, we we ran it, and there was a, Darold Ritchie was promoted to assistant superintendent, and I got a call from Dr. Carmichael asked me to come up and interview for the counseling job and assistant girl's basketball, and I told him flat out, you know, I coached for so many years, and I just don't want to do it again because of my health. And, so, I turned walk out and Darold Ritchie caught me when I was getting into the car to go back to the store, and Dr. C wants to see you again. Go back in, he said, you got a counseling job. 00:33:03.140 --> 00:33:16.539 Well, good, and and in talking to you about the counseling job, I know you said that that was like a great time for you, like I was in school at the time you were a counselor, and you said you really enjoyed your your time doing that. 00:33:16.539 --> 00:34:17.170 I enjoyed teaching and interacting with the classes, and I enjoyed coaching football, swimming and then back to basketball after the swim, my first five years in swimming and but when I got to be a high school counselor, my job was to know every student if I could. I don't know if you remember, but I had three yellow legal pads, and I tried to call in every student, sophomore, junior and senior, and had columns made, you know, make sure, you know, make start making plans and what your interests would be. Make sure you take the ACT if you're going to go to college, and PSAT when you're a junior, and this and that. And each year, I would try to talk to each one that came in. And, you know, it's just helping kids. 00:34:17.170 --> 00:34:21.659 You felt like you were able to maybe connect or help with them better in a counseling position? 00:34:21.659 --> 00:35:43.335 You know, I remember telling them, there's only a few things you can do once you graduate. Number one, you can go to college. Two, you can go to trade school. Three, you can join the service. Four, you can get a job. Five, you can just stay at home with your mom and dad. Those are about what you have to choose and you need to decide. And a good handful of kids went into the service. A lot of them went to college, trade or technical schools. Some of them got some jobs, and have done very well since then, and watching, you know, the ones that I really liked helping, and it wasn't because they were, I like them more than I like the others. It was they had more intense things they had to do, like the the academies, the Air Force Academy, the Naval Academy, and West Point, and was able to get some kids in, and I was also able to help a good group of kids like, my mind's going blank, I'll get back to them. 00:35:43.335 --> 00:35:44.360 Yeah, that's okay. 00:35:44.360 --> 00:36:19.565 And, you know, one of them called me about four years ago, when we were on our way to Fort Worth to watch the Sweet 16 basketball. I was with my brother and sister and my wife, my brother in law, sister and wife and I get a call, and it was Calvin Foster. He said, I wanted you to know you helped me so much to get into the Naval Academy. I just got nominated to be an admiral, and it has to be approved by the Senate, and both of us got tears. 00:36:19.565 --> 00:36:20.945 Yeah, that's a big deal. 00:36:20.945 --> 00:36:22.324 That's that was huge. 00:36:22.324 --> 00:36:28.639 Yeah. 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.420 I swear I would get brain fog. 00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:45.059 No, it's okay. It's okay. If you think of it, we'll come back to it. But, I would like to move on to and talk about your family a little bit. I know you mentioned your wife, Connie. Can you tell me her full name and date of birth? 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:51.960 Her full name is Connie Marie Mann. She was born July 29, 1950. 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.940 July 29th? 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:54.420 Yes. 00:36:54.420 --> 00:37:00.000 Okay. What was your first impression of her when you met her? 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:24.224 It was at Sixth and Main Street. I was in my little red '65 Mustang, and I was in the outside lane going south. Richard Worley (ph), and a group of people were in his car, and Connie was in there. And, so, I had Richard Worley later, if he had introduced me, and that's the way it all started. 00:37:24.224 --> 00:37:25.545 Oh, okay, okay. 00:37:25.545 --> 00:37:27.284 That was in '67. 00:37:27.284 --> 00:37:47.070 In 1967 okay, and you had mentioned that you'd gotten married September 6, 1968 and that was at the First Baptist Church in Bristow. Okay. Well, can you tell me about what your first year for, like, the early years of marriage was like? I know you were, you were in 00:37:47.070 --> 00:37:48.929 Listen, we got married September the 6th. 00:37:48.929 --> 00:37:51.079 And then you were drafted. 00:37:51.079 --> 00:38:06.019 We lived together September, October and November, and I was working all night, and she's working days, and I left December the 2nd. So, I was in the Army a lot longer than I was with Connie. 00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:09.679 Yeah, so where did she stay while you were gone? 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:35.704 She stayed, she stayed with Larry Slawson (ph), his wife, Gail Greer. Gail's, Larry was had gone away for basic training in Marines, and while he was gone, well, she and Connie lived together in Tulsa. Then when Larry was injured and got a discharge, physical discharge, she moved back home with her mom and dad. 00:38:35.704 --> 00:38:45.485 Okay, okay. And so whenever you got out, where did you guys end up living, when you got out of the service? 00:38:45.485 --> 00:39:08.630 Yeah, we bought a mobile home. Lived in Tulsa. I started going to TJC [Tulsa Community College], and she was working at that at Bank of Oklahoma, or actually, it was National Bank of Tulsa at that time. And you know, we just struggled through early years of marriage. 00:39:08.630 --> 00:39:16.000 Right, right, and then you have, I know you have, two children. Can you tell me their names and dates of birth? 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:26.440 Heather and Hayley. Heather [Heather Thompson Charles] is the oldest. Her birthday is November the 27th. 00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.360 I have November 28,1972. 00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:29.079 I'm one day off. 00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:29.500 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:29.500 --> 00:39:35.380 And Hayley [Hayley Rae Woodson] was October the 8th. How close? 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:37.000 October 9, 1980? 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:37.539 I'm one day off. 00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:47.019 Okay. And then you have, I know you said Heather has, uh, two daughters, and then Haley has one son. 00:39:47.019 --> 00:40:50.940 Yeah, two granddaughters are Emily and Megan, and grandson is Tyler. And you'll you're going to start learning how great it is to have a grandkid. And boy did I, we got to watch him grow up. You have a Schnauzer, and we had a Schnauzer back then. It was just a puppy, and his name was Gibbs, or Buster. And Buster grew up with those kids. And Emily now is a lawyer, an attorney working for Oklahoma County as a district in the District Attorney's office, and she handles all the juvenile cases. Megan just graduated and has started as an RN at a woman's hospital that deals with obstetrics and those things in Oklahoma City. Tyler is in his senior year, starting at Central University in Edmond. 00:40:50.940 --> 00:41:00.639 Do you remember any challenges in the early years of being a dad? Any challenges you had? 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:10.260 You know, both my kids were they were disciplined, but I never had any challenges. 00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:18.500 Didn't have any challenges. No, that's good. That's a good deal. Have you enjoyed being retired? Do you have any hobbies? 00:41:18.500 --> 00:43:21.664 Yeah, when I retired from education, I worked at American National Bank, Spirit Bank, now for four years or so. And it, it was okay. I was making a good, a lot of, definitely a lot more money than being in education, and somebody from Express Personnel called me and asked me if I'd be interested in opening an Express office in Bristow. So, I left banking and did, and did that for six or seven years, and ended up being a region manager, and, you know, I just, education is what I loved, and I just couldn't get into it, and I had a fall and back of my head, and ended up, about six months later, having a hematoma taken off, so I left Express. And a year later, I started with the Jim Thorpe Association, which also has the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame. And I did that for three years, and we started our own organization, the guys that were on my board, called Tulsa Sports Charities. We did that for about 14 years, or I did it for 14 years, until I retired from it, and I didn't take a salary from it, and I was able to do other things to do it, but God, we had so much fun. Our our goal was to make a lot of money, have fun doing it and give it all away. We gave away. 00:43:21.664 --> 00:43:22.960 That sounds fun! 00:43:22.960 --> 00:44:04.585 We gave away over $1.7 million to different charities and organizations, to Fellowship of Christian Athletes to Special Olympics. We had Tom Osborne and Barry Switzer do a legends dinner. And we donated $10,000 each to those two charities because they were in on them. And we, I mean, Ronald McDonald House, I don't know there's a list out. 00:44:04.585 --> 00:44:07.079 A whole list, well, you, you 00:44:07.079 --> 00:45:18.735 And we, one of the things I insisted on, here we go, memory, thank you. We endowed a scholarship at University Oklahoma in Tulsa, called the Wayman Tisdale scholarship, and they give it to freshmen. Then at Oklahoma State University and at TU, we endowed two scholarships, one each at those two universities and one at Oklahoma State was in Bill and Anita Connors name. Bill graduated from Oklahoma State and was a renowned sports editor and writer for the Tulsa World for years, and that scholarship goes to a junior who has successfully made it further than I did at Oklahoma State. And in their junior year, if they're majoring in journalism, they can apply for the scholarship. That way we know they're going to, probably graduate. 00:45:18.735 --> 00:45:19.599 Right, right. 00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:47.965 And then the one at TU was in Dr. George Mauerman's name. He was a team doctor at Memorial High School with his partner, Dr. White at Edison, and that's how I got to know both of them. And they started Eastern Oklahoma Orthopedic Center, which is now Advanced Orthopedics, and he became the team doctor at TU for 44 years, traveled with the basketball and the football team. 00:45:47.965 --> 00:45:48.744 Wow! 00:45:48.744 --> 00:46:03.505 And was on the sidelines for all of them. And we did it in his name. And it goes to a junior who is entering into sports medicine to become a trainer or or, you know, so they can apply for the scholarship. 00:46:03.505 --> 00:46:24.849 Well, that's cool. Well, I want to talk a little bit about your local accomplishments,too. I know you mentioned you were president of the Bristow Historical Society for three years. And, I know I asked about the depot in your early memories. What about your, your memories during that time at the depot? 00:46:24.849 --> 00:46:34.795 You know, we were just in the beginning, and it was just organizing the meetings. 00:46:34.795 --> 00:46:37.320 Trying to get everything set up? 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:48.780 You know, and people agreeing to do this. We had a great committee. I mean, Mrs. Chadderdon was on it. Dang, here I go. I don't want to start giving names I can't remember. 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:49.440 No, it's okay. 00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:54.719 We had a really good group of people who, honestly, love Bristow. 00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:59.099 Yes, Mrs. Chadderdon was definitely one that was a supporter of the depot. 00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:13.905 Yeah, and and I would bring in some speakers, and we'd do it out at the high school in the big open foyer. And it was just so much fun watching how we did the bricks. 00:47:13.905 --> 00:47:14.300 Right. 00:47:14.300 --> 00:47:51.364 Selling bricks out there and and just trying to grow the interest and try to bring in money to the group. And that was just reaching out in the community and and doing things that they could come to the depot and see. When we first started, the museum, you know, had a picture of Gene Autry and just, it was just the beginning and then the Chamber moved to the Historical Society. I don't know if they're still part of it there now, but that was, you know, is this a good deal. 00:47:51.364 --> 00:47:52.264 Right, right. 00:47:52.264 --> 00:47:54.724 And, yeah, it was fun times. 00:47:54.724 --> 00:48:13.909 Well, you also told me that after your heart attack, that within six months you had run the Tulsa Run, and then tell me about your, you got into running, and then tell me about your friendship, running here and the Wildflower Run, and how all that came about. 00:48:13.909 --> 00:48:40.474 I had a heart attack in '84 and went through Saint Francis Cardiac Care Unit, where the you had people that were trainers that knew, and it was treadmill or bicycle, and then you had class on how to change your diet and just easy things to get you involved to make a change. 00:48:40.474 --> 00:48:42.599 A positive change. 00:48:42.599 --> 00:49:48.869 And I remember, when I first got out of the hospital, I went home, and I was told to walk three minutes away, you know, at home. And, so, I would go out, and I'd walk a minute and a half to this one piece of wooden fence and turn around, and I had a mark on it, and I'd walk back home, get there in another minute. And every day, I increased three or four lumber pitches, until I was on a treadmill going through the rehab and and six months later, I ran the full Tulsa Run with a good friend of mine. It was Dr. Earl Bachenberg, is a dermatologist, and he paced me. We did a 10 minute mile, and we moved to Bristow, and I just started jogging and met Kell Kelly and Chip Cooper and said, you guys need to start running with me. And the furthest either one of them could run was one mile. I got him to do three miles, and we ran together. 00:49:48.869 --> 00:49:50.369 You were a good influence on them. 00:49:50.369 --> 00:49:52.275 We ran together for 17 years. 00:49:52.275 --> 00:49:53.295 That's crazy. 00:49:53.295 --> 00:49:54.599 Just and, and 00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:57.659 You said that every, every week you ran together, right? 00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:15.659 Yeah, there's some nights that one of us couldn't go and most of it was at night, and some of the best memories are sitting out on Kell's driveway when he lived over on east Sixth Street and just laying there on the driveway and visit. 00:50:15.659 --> 00:50:16.199 Right. 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:33.525 And then when he moved over at the end of Main by the bank and the Kelly home, finish over there and have a beer, and then we'd stop at my house and have a beer after we ran, but talked all the way that we ran and sit down and talk about. It was just 00:50:33.525 --> 00:50:34.440 Well, good. 00:50:34.440 --> 00:51:13.184 And, one of the things I asked him that first year was I know that a friend of mine was assistant principal at Edison Middle School, and he came and ran in a race in Bristow and won a pair of shoes. And I said, y'all, we remembered it, and I but it wasn't very well organized. And I said, well, let's start at 5k and Cooper said if we're going to do it, we're going to do it first class. And, you know how Chip is. At the time, he didn't know I was the same way. We started it, Bristow Wildflower Run in 1988. 00:51:13.184 --> 00:51:14.625 1988. 00:51:14.625 --> 00:51:15.465 It's still going. 00:51:15.465 --> 00:51:16.664 Still going strong, 00:51:16.664 --> 00:51:21.210 Yeah. And lot of kids ended up doing well. 00:51:21.210 --> 00:51:37.000 Yeah, and then you had also mentioned, I wanted you to tell me, just touch on the Bristow Education Foundation, and I know we talked about, like the free throw contest, Cadet Lawman. Can you tell me about those few things? 00:51:37.000 --> 00:52:52.795 There's two things that I was really proud of is, number one, is the Bristow Education Foundation. I was a counselor to high school, and you get a monthly newsletter from the technology centers, and I got one from Tulsa Tech, and there was, going up there, was going to have a seminar on how to start an Education Foundation. And I went in and talked to Bill Stephens, the principal, about going to that. And I said, you know, I think the best person I can think of right now that would be a good to help me with it would be Jim Masters. So, we got permission from Dr. Carmichael to look at the possibility. That's the way it started. Jim and I got it started, and before that, the other thing I was really proud of, is the dressing facilities out at the football field were still the same as when I was there back and, I mean, it was almost like a place where you put POWs. I mean, that's how, 00:52:52.795 --> 00:52:53.659 Yeah, right. 00:52:53.659 --> 00:53:26.704 The facilities had degraded and, and I got Tom Alexander to help me, and he gave me a box, two boxes, of his information on who played football at Bristow High School, and I wrote letters to as many of the families that had sons play football at Bristow, and asked for $100 donation. And we raised about $50,000. 00:53:26.704 --> 00:53:27.005 Oh, wow! 00:53:27.005 --> 00:54:16.894 But some people, we'd get a $5,000 check from one and $1000, and we started a Ring of Honor, and all the people that donated would put their son, or, you know, their names up there, and the school was able through much, I want to say, argument, but they were able to put the maximum amount they could put into it was $39,000, and then from that point on, the whole air conditioning system was given to us by a company out of Tulsa, heating and air. And we bought, I mean, the whole thing was done, heated and air and had bigger dressing room, a bigger weight room, a nicer place for the visitors. 00:54:16.894 --> 00:54:18.000 A definite upgrade. 00:54:18.000 --> 00:55:17.670 And Calvin Gentry and Tommy Herman and myself, we more or less organized it. Calvin knew how to build and Tommy, I mean, he's like a Swiss pocket knife. He can do anything. And, me, I can follow directions and do anything that I'm told to do. And we had volunteers come up [unknown caller], oh, I had potential spam. And I mean, one night we're roofing the whole facility. Dr Carmichael is there with Bill Stephens is there, Bobby Ledbetter and his crew that roofed and Herman and Gentry, and I can't tell you how many others. I mean, there must have been a dozen of us out here. We worked till 11:00 throwing shingles. 00:55:17.670 --> 00:55:18.090 Wow! 00:55:18.090 --> 00:55:21.989 I mean that the whole community got behind it. 00:55:21.989 --> 00:55:23.130 I love it! 00:55:23.130 --> 00:55:41.594 And it, now it, they built that new facility, and they said everything is still good. Ring of Honor, I think they might have moved it, but now it's a dressing facility for the girls track. They have a place to go, that's nice. 00:55:41.594 --> 00:55:42.195 Right, right. 00:55:42.195 --> 00:55:44.719 You know, it's still kept up and clean. 00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.719 Right. So that's a huge accomplishment. 00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:52.519 Well, the well, we also we raise money from doing a dinner for Chuck West. 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:57.440 Is this going to be the story about naming the chuck West Field House? 00:55:57.440 --> 00:55:57.800 Yes. 00:55:57.800 --> 00:55:59.980 Because that's gonna, okay, so I was gonna ask you about that. 00:55:59.980 --> 00:57:10.994 Well, the field house had already been named Chuck West, and we got together Larry Parish and Tommy Parish and Tommy Herman and Eddie Weiberdink and I, and got that approved by the board. And, so, when we, one of the things we did was have a banquet for him to raise money for the facility, football dressing room, and I got Barry Switzer to come. And he said, I'll do it, but you have to write the speech. And, so, I put together a nice outline for him. Ken McCormick talked. Switzer talked. And I think, oh, another wrestling coach for years in Tulsa, because was had the Chuck West wrestling tournament came and spoke and Onions Martin spoke. Onion was a wrestling referee. And in there, I put a little deal about Onions. My favorite memory of Onions Martin, I was a senior in high school and couldn't have basketball practice because they had wrestling tournament going on, and I'm sitting on like the bottom bleacher in the LeForce Field House on the north end, Onions is refereeing, and all sudden, he slaps a mat, blows his whistle and screams, this kid is disqualified for biting. He got up and talked a little bit, but Switzer said, who would name your kid Onions? 00:57:10.994 --> 00:58:20.789 I got him to come to Bristow and speak. No! He did the Fosters. He did the Fosters. And I think, no, and then we, we did the Fosters and Farha. And both those dinners raised a lot of money. I mean, we had the whole Chuck West Field House Gymnasium down below was filled with round tables 00:58:20.789 --> 00:58:21.750 Right, packed out. 00:58:21.750 --> 00:58:23.010 Yeah. 00:58:23.010 --> 00:58:29.550 Well, tell me real quickly, too, about Cadet Lawman. Were you the one that got that? 00:58:29.550 --> 00:58:31.829 No, no, no. Jim Masters. 00:58:31.829 --> 00:58:31.880 Oh, okay. 00:58:31.880 --> 00:59:29.510 Jim was so active in the Elks Lodge here, and he did two things. He did the national free throw shooting contest, where all the Elks Lodge on a certain day, Saturday, had free throw shooting contest. I helped him with that, and he also worked with the counselor before me, Darold Ritchie, and you could send four kids or two kids, but we always ended up getting four, at least four kids, which most schools didn't. And what it was, it was a Cadet Law Academy out in Burns Flat, Oklahoma. It was a at an old Air Force Base, and there was plenty of housing, and the kids went through a similar training. Did you go to it? 00:59:29.510 --> 00:59:37.190 I was actually invited to go, and I had a car wreck that summer, so I didn't get to go. I know I was so disappointed, because I was really looking forward to it. 00:59:37.190 --> 00:59:41.269 And, I mean, they treat you like you're in the military. 00:59:41.269 --> 00:59:43.900 Yes, yes, but everybody ends up loving it. 00:59:43.900 --> 01:00:02.199 Oh, it's you get up early. You march in formation. You say a cadence, you know? And you get on an air boat on a lake, and you fly up in a plane, and Teresa Westhaver got sick and had to use a little bag. And she fell and hurt herself, and had to come home, bless her heart, but she was there when Heather went and Hayley went, but just seeing those kids, watching your daughters march in formation, doing, you know, saying cadence, like I did in basic training. 01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:29.769 say that they loved it. 01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:31.329 Yeah, oh, I know. I agree. 01:00:31.329 --> 01:00:36.429 And you Jim, would work with the school on recommendations. 01:00:36.429 --> 01:00:52.539 Yeah, okay, well, I'm going to switch gears just a little bit. Um, I would like to ask you, um, how do you feel the world is different now than when you were a kid or younger? 01:00:52.539 --> 01:01:05.940 It's not a good world right now. There's just too many, too much hate going on. It makes me sad. 01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:18.599 Well, even listening to you talk about the community getting involved in the activities of like, the what you did at the football field, like, I miss that. I miss the involvement. So I 01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:19.739 You're doing it right now. 01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:21.000 Well 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:22.320 You're know part of it. 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:23.460 Yeah, yeah. 01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:25.980 It's something, you know. 01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:35.460 How do you feel like that, would, do you have any ideas of how that could be corrected? 01:01:35.460 --> 01:02:39.690 Yeah, I don't know. You know, when I grew up, there was an old saying you never lock your doors. Kids played at night without worrying. But life changes. These things [holding up cell phone] have changed lives so much. I can't imagine having a computer or this over in Vietnam like they did in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the thing is, you go to dinner with your friends, and one of them starts talking really bad about another person who's in office, and you don't want to hear it right, because you're on the other side. It was just like when Trump gave the okay to bomb Iraq, you know, or, yeah, Iran. I'm kind of like old country singer, I don't know the difference between Iraq and Iran. 01:02:39.690 --> 01:02:40.170 Right. 01:02:40.170 --> 01:02:41.010 Jackson. 01:02:41.010 --> 01:02:42.380 Yeah. 01:02:42.380 --> 01:03:34.550 And, you know, somebody asked me as I was walking by them at Andee Cooper's son's Kan, yes, that musical. What a night. What a great story. And I come back from the restroom at one of the breaks and somebody said, did you hear about our idiot president bombing Iran? And I bit my tongue, and I didn't want to get, I mean, those are the things, yeah, that are happening today. The media is always pushing this and that, right? And it's pushed people to the point of being hateful. 01:03:34.550 --> 01:03:36.170 Major division for sure. 01:03:36.170 --> 01:03:55.219 The, you know, the border crisis, you know, I, it's just, you have one side saying the borders closed. You have the other side saying, no, it's not. And then, boom, boom, boom. You know? 01:03:55.219 --> 01:04:06.800 Well, I feel like for you, I feel like you're a great example of you lived, you've lived your life well to help in areas where you can help. 01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:17.000 Well, I mean this, and I'm not trying to pat myself on the back or brag, but obviously God put me on earth to help people, 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:22.880 Right, I agree. I agree. And you've done that. 01:04:22.880 --> 01:05:38.739 You know, it's what I like to do. It's just, and you do good things for people. And here I'm, I shouldn't tell this story, but last week, Connie has a board meeting. She's the vice president of our homeowners association. When she goes to her meeting, well, I go to Fish Daddy's and have dinner. And Julie was, is the bartender there Fish Daddy's, and it's busy and she's pregnant and she's, and I said, Julie, I'm not going to come here to eat, but all I all I need to do is just get a go order of coleslaw before I go. I want an old fashioned and I was going to go home and eat some brisket. Oh, God, I love brisket. So, I went home and I took that little piece of brisket off and ate it, and took the whole thing to her. And because she has three or four boys, and she's pregnant with another one that was unexpected, and she just looked tired. And I took and took her that brisket and gave it to her. And last night, I, I'm back there. She's she's working the afternoon shift, getting ready to go home. Came over, gave me a big hug. 01:05:38.739 --> 01:05:41.500 And you know, that's the good stuff. That's the good stuff. 01:05:41.500 --> 01:05:42.699 You do things for people. 01:05:42.699 --> 01:05:57.039 Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, so on that note, I'm going to ask you one final question. Is there any thing else that you would like to tell us about or share any wisdom that you would like to share with for future generations? 01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:10.284 Just listen to the song by Louis Armstrong. What a Wonderful World. You listen to that song. If you don't get goose bumps, if you don't get a tear in your eye, you know, that tells you everything. 01:06:10.284 --> 01:06:24.730 Right. You know, I like it. Well, you've given us a great interview. I appreciate it. Your interview will be an important part of the Oral History Archives for the museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it. 01:06:24.730 --> 01:06:25.570 Can I add one thing? 01:06:25.570 --> 01:06:26.469 Absolutely. 01:06:26.469 --> 01:06:46.074 I sure wish we could get a kiosk or a place for veterans. People could go to the kiosk and type in a name, see what their relative did in WWI or WWII, even as far back to the Civil War. 01:06:46.074 --> 01:06:47.019 That's a great idea! 01:06:47.019 --> 01:07:15.025 And I'd really love to see that for the veterans. One of the things that I got to do, well, I didn't have to do it. I did it because Ledbetter, Mr. Ledbetter, wanted to he's afraid he had missed veterans graves when he puts the flags out. So, I've gone through and researched every cemetery and came up with a pretty accurate list that had to get veterans that did not have a marked grave as a veteran. 01:07:15.025 --> 01:07:15.804 Wow. 01:07:15.804 --> 01:07:18.625 And you know, there's so many heroes. 01:07:18.625 --> 01:07:20.125 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 01:07:20.125 --> 01:07:31.885 In Bristow that, you know, if you'd like to know the story about Klingensmith Park that's named after the first Bristow person killed in WWI. 01:07:31.885 --> 01:07:34.045 Right, right. 01:07:34.045 --> 01:07:37.284 So, yeah, twist an arm and get that done. 01:07:37.284 --> 01:07:40.284 Okay, well, thank you very much. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0076_Tommy_Thompson.xml OHP-0076_Tommy_Thompson.xml
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Title
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Tommy Thompson
Description
An account of the resource
Tommy Thompson recounts his life in Bristow, Oklahoma. Born January 20, 1948, Tommy discusses his family, including his mother Pauline Clowers and half-sister. He shares memories of growing up, including playing at the Silver Plunge swimming pool and attending Bristow Public Schools. Tommy details his involvement in sports, teaching, and community activities, such as being a founding member of the Bristow Wildflower Run and the Bristow Education Foundation. He also reflects on his military service, college education, and contributions to the community, including endowing scholarships and upgrading sports facilities.
Identifier
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OHP-0076
Date
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2025-08-19
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video
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/files/original/743cdf76a9816b47945d7eeab12e24a5.jpg
e4297a8278aa52aa522a60503f9ab45b
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Debbie Blansett
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Todd Herman
Mary Herman
OHMS Object
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Viewer)
https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml
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5.4 April 9, 2021 OHP-2020-14 Todd and Mary Herman OHP-2020-14 0:00-2:09:56 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Todd Herman Mary Herman Debbie Blansett MP3 OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary 1:|81(6)|86(2)|113(3)|165(12)|211(7)|241(4)|270(2)|323(11)|363(8)|406(6)|424(9)|484(2)|521(3)|572(10)|599(15)|620(11)|640(7)|665(3)|693(2)|719(5)|763(14)|801(8)|836(2)|858(15)|893(11)|938(7)|974(4)|1000(17)|1055(9)|1106(3)|1121(2)|1157(9)|1170(11)|1204(4)|1217(9)|1229(1)|1267(9)|1297(6)|1335(8)|1379(5)|1413(11)|1455(4)|1486(7)|1503(14)|1543(10)|1579(5)|1597(9)|1628(7)|1691(2)|1749(8)|1776(8)|1808(9)|1854(7)|1879(13)|1910(3)|1935(3)|1961(14)|1986(5)|2012(11)|2025(14)|2043(2)|2076(13)|2097(8)|2110(5)|2146(12)|2177(2)|2187(13)|2202(15)|2234(2)|2275(16)|2296(2)|2308(2)|2337(12)|2369(11)|2404(13)|2440(5)|2478(2)|2509(7)|2555(2)|2596(5)|2637(8)|2669(13)|2713(11)|2754(5)|2770(8)|2788(12)|2829(14)|2867(17)|2899(13)|2941(7)|2961(9)|2992(16)|3002(9)|3020(8)|3038(5)|3065(4)|3105(5)|3123(15)|3152(2)|3182(2)|3200(1)|3222(3)|3256(12)|3277(16)|3292(13)|3314(3)|3356(13)|3375(8)|3394(1)|3444(4)|3482(6)|3496(5)|3524(4)|3535(9)|3555(8)|3556(12)|3632(9)|3672(1)|3691(2)|3760(7)|3795(6)|3844(14)|3881(8)|3898(11)|3927(5)|3952(6)|3996(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-2020-14 Herman, Todd and Mary2.mp3 Other audio 870 Family, Childhood, and Second First Grade DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I’m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they’re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I’m gonna have them say their names so you’ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I’m gonna lay this here and I’m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he’ll— DB: Okay, well let’s start with— MH: He’ll just— Atoka (Okla.) ; Benjamin Hill Herman ; Catholic ; Catholic Kindergarten ; Clinton ; Edison Elementary ; Fighter Pilot ; Germany ; Joe Fusco ; John F. Kennedy ; Judge ; Judge Herman ; Junior High Gym ; Justice of the Peace ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mainstreet ; Major Quince Brown ; Mildred Holcomb ; Mrs. Couch ; Mrs. Kelly ; Mrs. Styles ; Ms. Bath ; Ms. Dial ; Ms. Simms ; Parish Hall ; Sister Cowart Clinic ; Sister Melba ; The Clinic Building ; W.H Herman ; Washington School ; Word War Two ; World War II Childhood ; Early Life ; Elementary ; Family ; Family History ; School https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873384/william-henry-herman Judge Herman https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363700/quince-lucien-brown Major Quince Brown https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182268/mildred-w.-holcomb Mildred W. Holcomb https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153638784/joseph-louis-fusco Joe Fusco 1486 Doc King, Mary Herman's Family and Bristow Main Street DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he’s gone a few minutes— MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I’m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I’m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I’m sure you’ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don’t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night— the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up— she said, “Okay, we just have to call Doc King.” And he came and he took a look at me and he said, “We need to flush out her system or she’s going to die.” And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine— DB: (Gasp) Cushing ; Doc King ; Dr. King ; Grammar School ; Hughes ; Kemp's Drug ; Main Street ; Malaria ; Mary Hughes ; Pool Halls ; Prince's Theater ; Route 66 ; Searcy's Jewelry Store ; Theodore Abraham ; Tulsa ; Turpentine Bristow ; Childhood ; Family ; Hughes ; Main Street ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25974276/mary-elizabeth-hughes Mary Elizabeth Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21363605/theodore-abraham Theodore Abraham 1828 Joe Ihle's Swimming Pool and Day Camp TH: And we had— we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma’am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was— it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers— MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: —I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something— DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was— Joe was— no he was the manager— DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word “Stupid, stupid, stupid!” Bristow Day Camp ; Burton Lincoln ; Day Camp ; French ; Joe Ihle ; Life Guard ; Margie Ihle ; Sapulpa ; Segregation ; Silver Plunge ; Softball ; Softball Field ; Spanish ; Swimming Pool Bristow Day Camp ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Joe Ihle ; Lifeguarding ; Summertime https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/112573626/burton-john-lincoln Burton John Lincoln 1895 The Longest Losing Streak in Oklahoma DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I— MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really— MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were— they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that— TH: I didn’t play in every game. MH: —you’re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. Coach McCoy ; Football ; High School Football ; High School ; High School Football ; Sports 2189 Mood Hughes, Tom Slick and The Flu Pandemic MH: Well I— I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And— DB: They’re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they— he— his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after— He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870— I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don’t know and the Sanky— S-A-N-K-Y— was from some singer and so his official— he’d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Moody Sanky Hughes ; Oil Fields ; Pennsylvania ; Tom Slick Family ; Flu Pandemic ; Hughes ; Oil ; Oil Fields https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893843/moody-s.-hughes Moody S. Hughes 2409 Cal Woodworth, Cletus James, Basketball and Football TH: Oh well— DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a— the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games— DB: Oh wow! Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Cal Woodworth ; Cletus James ; College Football ; Football ; Norman ; Oklahoma City ; Oklahoma City Newspaper ; OU ; OU National Championship Team ; School Board ; State Championship ; State Class A Basketball Championship ; Sukovaty Feed Store ; University of Oklahoma Basketball ; Bristow High School ; Championship ; College Football ; Football ; High School ; OU ; Sports https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200860101/calvin-van_kirk-woodworth Cal Woodworth 2748 Rabbit Hunting, Four Day Buck Season and The Mills Ranch TH: Well yeah, that’s— that’s a different story. But anyway, that all— that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin’ and there weren’t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in— started in the 40’s but they really didn’t take off until the 50’s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it— after that they went to a four-day season, it’d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn’t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it’s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it’s three months. DB: But they didn’t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day— Baptist Church ; Beagle ; Buck Season ; Bus Blackburn ; Clayton Dial ; Clayton Dial Sr. ; Clyde Warner ; Court House ; Crossbows ; Drummond Hardware Store ; Drummond's ; Earl Ford ; Edna Mills ; Ernest Mills ; Ethan Mills ; Ford Hardware ; Hominy ; Hunting ; Indians ; Lake Thoroughbred ; Library Board Inc. ; Long Bows ; Lucy Mae Mills ; Mills Ranch ; Mineral Rights ; Missouri ; Mose LeForce ; Oil Wells ; Osage County ; Ranching ; Spavinaw Refuge ; Wanda Newton Bucks ; Hunting ; Oil ; Rabbits ; Ranching ; The Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22410808/bus-blackburn Bus Blackburn https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873454/jesse-clyde-leforce Jesse Clyde LeForce https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/141221581/clyde-warner Clyde Warner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26846902/earl-walter-ford Earl Walter Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/178853872/waneuma-earlene-newton Wanda Ford https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25330445/ernest-h.-mills Earnest Mills https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182021/lucy-mae-dial Lucy Mae Mills Dial https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182009/clayton-elmo-dial Clayton Elmo Dial 2901 A Joe Ihle Story TH: So anyway, that’s the long story short that— that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let’s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn’t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let’s go forward to 1957 or ’58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they’re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn’t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn’t know what Bus did. They didn’t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. Beaver (Okla.) ; Bristow Swimming Pool ; Bus Blackburn ; Football ; Football Coach ; Gun Boat ; Iwo Jima ; Joe Ihle ; Marine Corp. ; Navy ; World War II Football ; Navy ; World War II 3117 Mose LeForce, Drivers Ed, and Duck Hunting MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about— TH: (Chuckling) MH: —what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I’m sure? DB: It is Clyde’s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary’s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ‘coon huntin’? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he’s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That’s right. He was a— MH: Yes, he was a coach. Clyde LeForce ; Drivers Ed ; Ed Elias ; Football ; Hunting ; Jimmy Elias ; LeForce Fieldhouse ; Mose LeForce ; Rosemary LeForce ; School Drivers Ed ; Duck Hunting ; Football ; Mose LeForce ; School Days https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/176139209/james-saab-elias James " ; Jamil" ; Elias https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/211791065/clyde-leforce Clyde LeForce 3264 The Gun Show and County Commissioner Scandal TH: Well I’ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I— we don’t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real— that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh— MH: Who was corrupt? Armory ; Bristow National Gun Show ; Caterpillar Dealer ; County Commissioner ; Federal Court ; Gun Show ; Jimmy Weaver ; Oklahoma City ; Quonset Huts ; Softball Field Bristow Gun Show ; County Commissioner ; Jimmy Weaver 3571 The Bill Mack Dairy Ranch and Championship Bird Dogs MH: Well I— he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather— DB: Yes. MH: —my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my— he named it after my dad . DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —that takes care of all the stray— do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly’s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. Beth Roberts ; Breeders Association ; Brenda Morris ; Championship Bird Dogs ; Dairy ; Doak ; Drilling Company ; Hughes ; Kellys ; Linda Trigalet ; Paul Morris ; Shaull Hughes ; The Bill Mack Dairy ; William Mack Hughes Bill Mack Dairy ; Championship Dogs ; Dog Breeding ; Drilling ; Hughes ; Ranch ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25893840/william-mack-hughes William Mack Hughes 3863 Drilling Company and The Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or— MH: He decided that was during when things— the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don’t know. DB: What about your mom’s family? MH: My mom — my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby . Grandpa’s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather’s grandmother— grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never— she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you— a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not— they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn’t— DB: Yes. Arkansas ; Billie Hodge ; Cherokee ; Clell Long ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling Company ; Hodge ; Hodge Station ; Ida Fadely ; Oil Cans ; Reba Hodge Long ; RL Jones ; Route 66 ; Ruby Hodge ; Sand Creek ; School ; Texaco Station ; Tulsa ; Vic Hodge Bottling Plant ; Dr. Pepper Bottling Plant ; Drilling ; Drilling Company ; Hodge Station ; Hodges ; Hughes ; Longs ; Oil ; Route 66 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25970425/billie-darlene-hughes Billie Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528797/ruby-v-hodge Ruby Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59528875/victor-w.-hodge Victor Hodge https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168803/charles-clell-long Charles Clell Long https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77168837/reba-elizabeth-long Reba Hodge 4190 Condom Machine Quarters and Army MP Duties MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave— DB: (Chuckling) MH: —by me telling this story. But, grandpa— grandma would always go down— she would help him down there, you know. And she’d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men’s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so— TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That’s right. And so— I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don’t know. DB: But he— she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)— DB: That’s funny. Army ; Cunningham Chevrolet ; Hughes ; Japan ; MP ; Oklahoma State University ; OSU ; Polio ; TU ; Tulsa University ; Turnpike Amry ; College ; Huges ; Japan 4404 The Sugar Bowl MH: And I have— I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he— you know he really— you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he— daddy convinced Mose— DB: Clyde’s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to— it was New Orleans wasn’t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad— my grandfather evidently told Mose said, “You keep an eye on him don’t let him out of your sight.” ‘cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we’re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket— DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: —to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of— I can’t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad’s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde’s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can’t remember but— Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Hinting ; Mose LeForce ; New Orleans ; The Sugar Bowl ; TU Clyde LeForce ; Football ; Sugar Bowl ; Tulsa University 4785 The Carnegie Library Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ‘70’s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don’t you? DB: Where the administration building— MH: Yes. TH: That’s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries— DB: You don’t think she was still there like in ’81? TH: Oh, I can’t remember when— Bernice Oaks ; Bill Bursler ; Bill Shibley ; Carnegie Library ; City Clerk ; Civil War ; Dewey Decimal System ; Librarian ; Max Oaks ; Mrs. Armith ; Ms. Burnett Jackson ; Ms. Herman ; OSU ; Rita Oaks 5423 The Great Depression, Soup Kitchen, Roosevelt and the WPA TH: I have another story— DB: Okay. TH: —about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of— and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20’s or in the 30’s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. Ampitheater ; California ; Chicago ; Chief of Police ; Community Bank ; Dust Bowl ; Farmington, New Mexico ; Hoover ; Ice Plant ; Jim Tallent Sr. ; Judge Herman ; Levan Kelly ; R.L Jones ; Roger Collins ; Roosevelt ; Sam Blackburn ; Slick ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; World War II ; WPA President Roosevelt ; Soup Kitchen ; The Great Depression ; The WPA N 35° 49.951 W 096° 24.181 17 Bristow Amphitheatre 5815 We'll Take that One and Tracy Kelly Won't Stop Crying MH: But you know, it’s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —the second. So they— and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad’s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home— I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, “Okay, she’s”— they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm— a ward, they called it. Dorcas Kelly ; Kansas City ; KU ; Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182368/dorcas-b.-kelly Dorcas B. Tracy Kelly https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96953333/oliver-tracy-kelly Oliver Tracy Kelly 5954 Everything is Always Connected to Something Else You know ‘cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it’s just— there’s so much that’s— all that history’s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it’s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story— MH: Mm-hmm. DB: —it’s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was— I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these— this couple— I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, “Well I grew up in Oklahoma” and the guy said, “Really, where?” and I said, “Oh, you’ve never heard of it.” He said, “Well try me.” And I said, “It’s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow.” And he said, “Bristow?” he said, “There’s—” he said, “I know something about Bristow.” He said, “There’s a real famous athlete from Bristow.” And I said, “Really?” Clyde LeForce ; Lawrence Kansas ; Theater Play 6376 $5 Fake ID, Northwestern Oklahoma State and Wishing to be a Play Boy DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want— DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven’t even scratched the surface ma’am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn’t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life— a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was— I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn’t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that’s another long story. DB: Where’d you go to school? Alva, Oklahoma ; Army ; Burton Lincoln ; Central State ; Duwayne Whited ; Edmond ; Football ; International Guard ; Judge Arthurs ; Levi McBride ; Marie Arthurs ; Northwest Oklahoma State ; Oklahoma City ; OU ; Schumacher Funeral Home ; Vietnam ; Winter Wheat https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171094/herbert-l.-arthurs Herbert L Arthurs https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25171099/marie-arthurs Marie Stewart Arthurs 6507 Hunting Deer and Forgotten Tacos TH: Levi loves to hunt. I’ve corrupted him and I’ve corrupted his brother Michael . Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They’ve been taught how to shoot. They’ve all got nice guns and they’re my students. That’s what I call em’. They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I’m proud of em’. They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And— DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That’s my great nephews. Hunt ; Levi McBride ; Michael McBride ; Taxidermy 7063 Most Mischievous and Memories of Bristow TH: Anyway, that’s just part of my— that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn’t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That’s— how long you— how long have we been married? Let’s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. Chicago ; Coburgs ; Creek County Free Fair ; Judd Johns ; Kemp Drug ; Kirchner's ; Linda Trigalet ; Main Street ; Nursing Home ; Owasso ; San Antonio ; Teen Town ; Tulsa ; Virginia Johns ; Walamrt https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192278055/virginia-lee-johns Virginia Lee Johns 7223 Adlai Stevenson's Train Trip and Eleanor Roosevelts Amphitheater Dedication TH: —to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That’s how everybody traveled back then— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: —was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker— they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur’s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a— this was all Democratic country back then. Adlai Stevenson ; Democrat ; Eisenhower ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Frisco Railroad ; Illinois ; Judge Arthurs ; Kelly's ; Republican ; WPA 7635 Influential People in Bristow MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ‘30’s, ‘40’s, late ‘20’s, there was a lot— there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever— DB: Mm-hmm. MH: —you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It’s how all of these beautiful churches got built and— DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian— MH: The Methodist. TH: — the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are— TH: Boy I tell you what you should— what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. Alaska ; Betty Kelly ; Brick Kirchner ; Canada ; Dokes ; Eddie Bishop ; George Krumme ; Independence Kansas ; Levan Kelly ; Maree Kirchner ; McMillian ; Ms. Gurley ; Roger Collins ; Tom Miller ; Tracy Kelly ; William Mack Hughes https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25204299/ralph-r_-kirchner Ralph Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25182396/maree-b.-kirchner Maree Kirchner https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22443036/thomas-j.-miller Thomas J. Miller https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25138458/edward-l-bishop Eddie Bishop In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Interviewer: Todd (TH) and Mary Herman (MH) Interviewee: Debbie Blansett (DB) Other Persons: Date of Interview: April 09, 2021 Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma Transcriber: Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Original Cassette Tape Location: Abstract: In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family' ; s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society' ; s ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I' ; m sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they' ; re going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I' ; m gonna have them say their names so you' ; ll know them on tape. TH: Todd Herman. MH: Mary D. Collins Herman. DB: Alright. So I' ; m gonna lay this here and I' ; m gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first? MH: Oh Lord. TH: You go. MH: No, you start Todd. TH: Alright (Chuckling). MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he' ; ll-- DB: Okay, well let' ; s start with-- MH: He' ; ll just-- DB: --your early life. Like-- TH: Alright. DB: --when were you born and all that stuff? TH: Alright, I was born in November of 1939 at the Sisler Clinic. It was actually the Sisler- Cowart Clinic. C-O-W-A-R-T. On West Eighth street in Bristow. My family came to Bristow on my dad' ; s side in about 1911 and my father was born here in 1912. DB: Oh. TH: My mother came to Bristow with her dad in 1923 from Atoka, Oklahoma. She was born in Atoka. And my grandfather-- her father had a jewelry store and my paternal grandfather wound up being-- he was a veterinarian and he wound up being the Chief of Police-- DB: Hmm. TH: And from there he was the Justice of the Peace. DB: Here in Bristow? TH: In Bristow. He was known as Judge Herman. MH: What was his name? TH: W.H. Herman his tombstone in the Bristow City Cemetery says Judge Herman. DB: Oh. TH: That' ; s how he was known. And you have to understand the Oklahoma Court system from statehood, they had Justice of the Peace everywhere and they handled the small insurrection-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The small criminal cases. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Which we' ; d classify now as a misdemeanor. DB: And the Justice of the Peace did that? TH: The JP did it. You-- if you got a ticket for killing too many quail-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and game warden wrote you a ticket, you took it to the JP. That' ; s what they were called-- the Justice of the Peace. DB: Hmm. See I always associate that with people-- marry people-- MH: Right. DB: I didn' ; t know that they were-- TH: Oh no, they did-- they did-- they had a lot of-- they kept the peace is what they did. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s what it was for. MH: What was his name Todd, even though he was a judge. TH: W.H. Herman and I-- MH: What did the W and the H stand for? TH: I have no idea. MH: (Laughter) TH: William? I think the middle name was Hill. And the reason I say that is my uncle B.H. Herman was Benjamin Hill Herman. DB: Maybe it was a mother' ; s maiden name or-- TH: Could be, I have no idea. DB: -- or some family name from somewhere. TH: Somebody' ; s done some research and I remember reading it, but I can' ; t remember exactly what it says. DB: How many brothers and sisters? TH: My mother was an only child. My dad had two brothers and a sister. MH: See Tommy Herman-- they' ; re cousins. DB: Oh uh-huh. TH: Yes. Listen, I don' ; t wanna dominate this thing-- MH: No. DB: No. MH: Go right ahead, keep on talking. TH: I could just talk and talk and talk. DB: Well just talk and talk and talk. TH: (Laughter) Okay. DB: So-- TH: Anyway, I was born there-- MH: Maybe she wants to hear about something specific. DB: No, I want to just-- MH: Okay. DB: hear your stories. You were born in the Sissler Clinic (ph). TH: Yes, and I was-- DB: Which is-- TH: -- raised in Bristow on the west side. I remember living in a little house on Elm Street between Seventh and Eighth Street. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The house is still there. There were three little frame homes and we lived-- I remember living in that house. DB: So you would' ; ve been grade school age? TH: I wasn' ; t grade school age. I wound up-- my mother put me in the Catholic Kindergarten. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Well tell her the story behind that. That' ; s a cute story. TH: My grandfather was-- Oklahoma was very anti-Catholic. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: An example, in 1960 John F. Kennedy lost Oklahoma by 100,000 votes and he was a Democrat. DB: Oh my. TH: He lost because he was a Catholic. DB: I-- TH: Yeah. DB: I didn' ; t know that. TH: It was-- it was a really anti-- anti-Catholic here. When I went to-- my grandfather did not want my mother to put me in the Catholic Kindergarten because they had nuns. DB: Hmm. For the teachers? TH: Yes, Sister Melba (ph) I can still remember the nuns name and it was discipline. If you got-- did something wrong she' ; d whack you with a ruler on the back of your hand. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember that and I cried ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school, and mother finally took me up there and enrolled me. MH: You said you would watch the kids. TH: I would watch ' ; em all go to school and I' ; d sit out there-- out on the front porch and cry ' ; cause I couldn' ; t go to school. I was five years old, whatever I was. And down the street the Brown' ; s lived down the street and there was a dog down there, his name was Major-- in a pen. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Major was the dog of Major Quince Brown, who was a fighter pilot in World War II. DB: Oh. TH: And got shot down in Germany and this was his dog and his squadron made-- chipped in and shipped the dog home to his parents. DB: Oh, how wonderful! TH: I remember going down there. DB: Huh. TH: And that' ; s some of my memories from-- DB: So the children-- so whenever you went to kindergarten at the Catholic School, there wasn' ; t a kindergarten like in the-- TH: No. DB: -- public school. TH: No, public school started-- DB: So if you wanted to go to school-- TH: --started in first grade. DB: --you had to go to the Catholic Kindergarten. TH: Yes. DB: Alright. TH: That' ; s the only kindergarten there was. MH: There was no-- DB: You must really wanted to go to school? TH: I wanted to be with all those kids. DB: (Laughter) MH: There was no preschool. The only thing we had-- of course I' ; m ten years younger than he is. But by the time I was that age-- three, four years old, there was a program-- Mrs. Couch (ph) who lived on the east side of town-- DB: Mm-hmm MH: -- and I think it was maybe Seventh-- Six or Seventh Street, East. She had Mrs. Couch' ; s (ph) play school, that' ; s what it was called. And so that' ; s where we-- a lot of us went when we were three, four, five years old. DB: Kinda like what Ms. Dial' ; s (ph)-- MH: Yes. DB: -- turned into-- MH: Yes. DB: -- later on. MH: Yes. So I have no idea when kindergarten actually started in Bristow. But there was no Kindergarten because we went from Mrs. Couch (ph) to first grade. DB: M-kay. MH: And I don' ; t think Mrs. Couch (ph)-- was Ms. Couch (ph) around when you were-- TH: No. MH: Okay. TH: No there' ; s no-- nobody had a school. This was-- this was it. The Catholic-- DB: Where was the Catholic school? TH: Right where the Parish Hall is now at the Catholic Church. The nun' ; s lived there. There was a little house that they lived in. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was Protestant kids going to school with the Catholic kids. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And they kid' ; s had school there. They went up through sixth grade ; didn' ; t they, Todd? TH: Yeah, they went all the way through the sixth grade at the Catholic School and then they went to public school. DB: But you just went there in kindergarten-- TH: Kindergarten-- DB: -- then went to public school. TH: Yes. And then when I went to public school at Edison. DB: And where was Edison then? TH: Right there on Main Street where there' ; s a school there now. What' ; s it called? DB: Well where Edison is now? MH: Yes. TH: Is that Edison? DB: But it was an older-- it wasn' ; t-- TH: Oh yeah. It was an old brick building. MH: It wasn' ; t that building. TH: It' ; s been torn down and rebuilt. DB: Okay. TH: Yeah that' ; s where I went to first grade. DB: So Edison' ; s always been right there in the same location pretty much? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yes. DB: M-kay. Anything else from those early years-- MH: Tell her about your first grade. How it--how you failed-- what happened to you in first grade? TH: Oh, I failed the first grade. (Laughter) TH: And they handed out the report cards at the end of school. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; m walking home. My parents had moved this time on West Ninth Street and I' ; m walking home from school and this kid that I don' ; t know who he was. He looked at it and he says " ; You failed, and your gonna have to take first grade over again." ; and I went home crying. I was just absolutely devastated and you know, they hadn' ; t told me this. Mother (inaudible) and here I have the report card that said I was gonna be held back. MH: Tell her why. TH: Well, I don' ; t know why I guess-- MH: You said it was ' ; cause you were sickly. TH: I was a sickly young-- MH: That you missed a lot of school. TH: Yeah, I missed a lot of school. DB: Oh. TH: I was a sickly child. So I got held back a year and it just devastated me. I remember coming home crying. I remember they were so--. I remember hitting that porch and just bawling and squalling and-- DB: Oh my. TH: I was so upset. Mother didn' ; t exactly handle it right. MH: (Laughter) no. DB: Just-- what did-- MH: Didn' ; t tell him. They didn' ; t tell him. DB: Oh. TH: Yeah. MH: You don' ; t do that to a child (Laughter). TH: So-- DB: So you did first grade twice. TH: I did the first grade twice. DB: And you weren' ; t as sick the second time? TH: No. My first year-- the ladies name, I can' ; t remember her name. The second first grade was Mrs. Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Mildred Holcomb. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I remember all my teachers all through the Edison school years. DB: Well that' ; s something. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah, I can remember every one of them. DB: So Mrs. Holcomb was your second first grade teacher. MH: (Laughter) TH: Yes, and then-- DB: And second grade was? TH: Ms. Bath (ph). DB: Ms. Bath (ph). TH: She was a lady-- she and her husband were murdered out north of Bristow. DB: I remember that name. TH: Okay the second-- DB: Third grade? TH: Third grade was Ms. Simms (ph). DB: Ms. Simms (ph)? TH: And the fourth grade was Mrs. Kelly (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And who later moved to Clinton. And the fifth grade I can' ; t remember. I think it was Mrs. Styles (ph). DB: Mm-hmm TH: Or Mrs. Styles (ph) maybe could' ; ve been the sixth grade. Anyway, there' ; s one in there I can' ; t remember exactly-- MH: She taught math when I was in junior high. Styles (ph) did. TH: Okay then, when I went to junior high is when you didn' ; t have a homeroom. You passed around. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Seventh, eighth and ninth grade. DB: And where was the junior high? MH: Right there. DB: Like where the auditorium used to be? TH: Yes. That was the junior high-- that was a-- MH: Because the-- because the junior high building had an auditorium. DB: It was all right there. There was Edison and the Junior High and the High School. MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: All right there in that-- MH: Yes. DB: -- one little block area. TH: And then there was another brick building there, the Clinic building they called it. Its where the band-- MH: Band building. TH: -- band building was. MH: It' ; s where Joe Fusco was. TH: Yes. DB: Oh. MH: And then I don' ; t know about-- see we had LeForce Fieldhouse across the street. DB: Yes. MH: And that' ; s where we would have gym classes and that' ; s where we would do assemblies and stuff when I was in school. That' ; s what you probably did too-- DB: But there was a gym behind the junior high also. TH: Junior High Gym. MH: But we didn' ; t-- when we were in high school, we went to across the street. DB: Yes. MH: I remember the Junior High gym when I was in junior high but then I don' ; t know what happened to it (Chuckling) after that. TH: Tore it down. MH: That' ; s right. DB: No, it' ; s part of the building. TH: Hmm? MH: I mean we would go-- we would have like dances there. We had like the Junior High Dance at one point I think-- DB: In the gym? MH: Yeah. DB: We had junior high dances in Leforce Fieldhouse whenever I was-- MH: Yeah. DB: --teaching at the-- while it was not the high school then it was the junior high. TH: Excuse me. DB: You' ; re fine. MH: Right, so yeah. But its, yeah. It' ; s all-- it was all right there. It was easy. Of course Washington was on the other side. DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he' ; s gone a few minutes-- MH: Yes. DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you. MH: Well, I' ; m the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that I' ; m living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: But I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard stories about Dr. King. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don' ; t know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night-- the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up-- she said, " ; Okay, we just have to call Doc King." ; And he came and he took a look at me and he said, " ; We need to flush out her system or she' ; s going to die." ; And so he told my mother to take a bottle of turpentine-- DB: (Gasp) MH: --and to take a spoon and dip it down into the turpentine just to kind of coat the spoon and then put it in the bottle because she wasn' ; t nursing me. For whatever reason, I was on a bottle. So he said put that down in the bottle with the milk and my mother evidently said, " ; I can' ; t do that, I' ; ll kill her." ; And he said " ; This will give her diarrhea" ; or whatever it was and he said, " ; If we don' ; t do it, she' ; s not gonna live." ; So, mother did that and sure enough, and so the story always makes me a little sad. It was great joy to my mother that he came to my wedding-- DB: (Gasp) Oh my goodness! MH: She always used to talk about that. DB: It gives me chills. (Chuckling) MH: Yeah and she-- because she credited him-- she always credited him with saving my life. DB: Oh, that' ; s amazing. MH: And I-- DB: After the schmancy doctors in Tulsa didn' ; t have anything. MH: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. DB: And he came to your home and visited-- MH: Oh for sure! Yeah and there' ; s great-- there' ; s great stories about Doc King. I don' ; t know how many people that are alive now actually remember-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know. DB: His name hasn' ; t come up often. MH: Isn' ; t that interesting? TH: My father talked about Doc king. My dad had Malaria when he was a young person and Doc King got him through it. DB: That' ; s amazing. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was always talking about Doc King. MH: But I was-- I was married in ' ; 72 in the old Methodist church-- the original one. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: And there' ; s a picture or somewhere of him coming into the church. And he had to have people helping him. And then when the Historical Society Newsletter that came out just recently, there was an article about him in there and I read when he died and it wasn' ; t too long-- maybe a year or two after I had gotten married. And he was already not-- DB: He was holding on to come-- (Laughter) MH: Not-- I don' ; t think so. But he was like already ninety-something. You know? DB: That' ; s pretty amazing. MH: Yeah. Yeah, I mean-- you know, yeah, it' ; s a pretty cool story I think. DB: Yes. MH: Okay, Todd go ahead I' ; ll stop now. TH: (Chuckling) I don' ; t know-- I don' ; t know where we were. DB: Let' ; s see, so we had-- we were talking about the gyms-- TH: Alright. DB: --any other things from elementary time or-- TH: Oh! DB: --grammar school time-- TH: Well, a lot of the kids that I went to school with in grade school I wound up going all twelve years with them. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And graduated from high school with them and there' ; s three or four of ' ; em that I see on a regular basis today that are still alive. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And we are still-- were still, ya know not close friends but we' ; re-- we know each other. DB: And what class did you graduate in? TH: 1958. DB: 1958. TH: But my grandfather-- I have to tell this story. This is the greatest-- this is the greatest story that you' ; re ever gonna hear. DB: Okay, I can' ; t wait. TH: When I was five or six years old, I don' ; t know how old I was. My grandfather had the jewelry store on Main Street in Bristow. It was right across the street from the Prince' ; s theatre and where Kemp' ; s Drug Store is today. MH: Tell her the name of the store. TH: Searcy' ; s Jewelry Store. Well, I have a friend, I' ; m still his friend. He' ; s a retired attorney in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: His name is Stewart Arthurs (ph). DB: Mm-hmm. TH: We found two stool plungers in the back of my grandfather' ; s jewelry store. We decide to have a sword fight, well we know we can' ; t have a sword fight in that store. MH: Did you tell her how old you were at the time? TH: I was five or six-- DB: Yeah, he-- TH: --years old, I can' ; t-- MH: Okay. TH: --remember how old I was, (Chuckling) maybe four, five, six. So we snuck those stool plungers out and we' ; re out there on the sidewalk on the street having a sword fight with stool plungers. DB: (Laughter) TH: Now at this time, Main Street in Bristow was Route 66. This was before the turnpike. The turnpike wasn' ; t completed until 1953. This would' ; ve been in 1945, ' ; 46 something like that. Bristow had a beat cop on Main Street named Theodore Abraham. DB: Uh-huh. TH: That walked up and down Main Street ' ; cause you had seven or eight beer joints on Main Street and you had to-- and a couple of pool halls. You had to have somebody maintaining peace down there. DB: And traffic. TH: Theodore did it. DB: Lots of traffic. TH: Lots of traffic. Lots of traffic. We' ; re out there having a sword fight. Well Theodore Abraham he' ; s ornery as can be anyway. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Would you believe, he stopped the traffic on main street and Stewart (ph) and I are out there having this sword fight and we were just little kids. DB: And he stopped the traffic. TH: He stopped traffic. He walked out there in the middle of the street and stopped traffic in both directions so we could have this sword fight. DB: Oh my! MH: (Laughter) TH: My mother comes out there and my grandfather and they see what' ; s going on. Oh my goodness, we got screamed and hollered at and I remember we got taken to the back room and my grandfather paddled both of us. DB: Oh my. (Laughter) TH: And mother called Stewarts (ph) mother and she said we' ; ll paddle him when gets home. (Laughter) TH: I told my friend, Stewart (ph)-- I talk to him about once a month-- he' ; s had a stroke and his health is not real good. So I keep checking on him over at Cushing. And I told him that there was gonna be an interview for this oral history thing. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He said, " ; Be sure and tell ' ; em about the sword fight" ; (Laughter) DB: Well I' ; m glad you told that-- TH: Oh I-- DB: --that is pretty something. TH: Yes. That' ; s-- that was a good deal. DB: That is something. TH: But Bristow was a real good place to grow up. Because I had the run of the whole town. In junior high I had a bicycle, I could go anywhere. I' ; d go out in the country. I had a BB gun. I would shoot sparrows off the wires. I knew what I could do and couldn' ; t do. The policeman knew who I was. If I knew if I got out of line, I was in trouble. It' ; s like everybody looked after everybody. MH: That' ; s true. DB: Mm-hmm TH: It was-- it was that way. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: You didn' ; t-- you know, you said, yes sir and no sir. You were just happy, happy, happy. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Would that be true Mary D.? MH: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. I remember driving by this house on my bicycle going to the Bristow swimming pool. ' ; Cause I' ; d always liked to drive up Sixth Street because it was paved with concrete. It wasn' ; t driving on the bricks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I always looked at this house and golly I wonder who lives in that big house now. DB: (Chuckling) TH: I never saw anybody outside, so-- DB: Didn' ; t know you' ; d end up living in it one day? TH: I sure didn' ; t. Well I didn' ; t know her. DB: Mm-hmm. (Laughter) TH: So that was-- that was a good story right there. DB: That was a good story. TH: And we had-- we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time. DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now? TH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: But the swimming pool was much different? TH: Oh it was-- it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers-- MH: He was a lifeguard. TH: --I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle! MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Let me tell you something-- DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling) TH: He was-- Joe was-- no he was the manager-- DB: He was the manager. TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word " ; Stupid, stupid, stupid!" ; (Laughter) DB: I can still hear that. TH: Oh, I can-- I can see-- DB: I think he still says that! TH: I can see Joe telling that and this is when we still had segregation. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and I remember the blacks coming out there wanting to go swimming and not being able to go. Getting turned back. DB: Hmm. TH: And I can remember Joe Ihle teaching swimming lessons to these women that came from Sapulpa. About ten or twelve of ' ; em and Joe was a good looking man and he' ; d always wait until those women got out there and then here would come ole Joe and he' ; s struttin' ; down through there. (Laughter) TH: The other lifeguard was the guy named Burton Lincoln that summer. We called him Abe Lincoln. He was a super smart man, had a double major in college-- DB: Hmm. TH: --foreign languages of English and no of Spanish and French. DB: Wow. TH: Anyway we' ; d sit over there and wondering. And old Abe said, " ; I wonder which one he' ; s gonna go home with this afternoon" ; . (Laughter) TH: And we' ; d say that about ole Joe and we never teased Joe. Joe was real sensitive. You couldn' ; t tease Joe very much. But he' ; d teach those ladies swimming and open that swimming pool up at two o' ; clock in the afternoon. And here' ; d come all these kids. MH: That' ; s late. You didn' ; t open until two? TH: Opened at two. DB: And so the ladies would come do their swimming lessons before-- TH: At one o' ; clock, yes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. Well it would take us until after they' ; d had that-- and they started this Day Camp thing-- DB: Yes. MH: Right. TH: And they' ; d all come to the swimming pool at eleven and we' ; d have to go out there in the morning and clean the pool. We had to-- the deep end of the pool didn' ; t have much circulation and the bottom would get dirty and we had an underwater breathing device. DB: Uh-huh. TH: With a ninety-pound weight and we' ; d vacuum the deep water. DB: So Day Camp-- you were the life guard-- TH: No, we didn' ; t have anything to do with the Day Camp. DB: Oh. TH: We were gone by eleven and here came the Day Camp to swim. And then after they' ; d get through we' ; d have to go clean up everything where they were swimming. DB: So you were about a junior or a senior in high school? TH: I was a-- I did it between my junior and senior year. And I did it after my senior year. I did it for two summers. DB: Two summers. TH: It was the best job in Bristow. They paid me forty dollars a week. A dollar an hour for labor in the morning and we got to split the proceeds from the rental of the swim fins and the goggles and that kind of stuff. And Joe got the towels and the swimsuits that they rented. DB: Hmm. MH: They rented swim suits? TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And towels? TH: Yeah. Oh we had tourists come through and not have a swimsuit and want to go swimming. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, Joe would do that and then his wife' ; s name was Margie (ph). She' ; d take that stuff home and wash it. DB: Wow. TH: Yeah, I was making-- I was making money. DB: You were. TH: That was the best job. You could do that or haul hay for two cents a bale. DB: And a lot hotter to haul hay than it is to lifeguard. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: (Chuckling) TH: Oh, that was the best job in town. DB: And a lot harder work. TH: All these little ole girls would show up to come visit grandma for the summer and they' ; d take them to the swimming pool. DB: Come to the pool. TH: Yeah. DB: Ah, yes. I kinda have to tell on my husband. He still-- he still likes to drive by the swimming pool in the summer, but he said " ; It' ; s just not the same as it used to be." ; MH: Same. (Laughter) TH: Well that was-- DB: Just not the same. MH: No. TH: Well that was-- that was built by an Indian. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And he gave it to the city. That' ; s how the city wound up-- the city didn' ; t build that pool. This Indian man did-- DB: The original-- the first pool. TH: First pool and it held 800,000 gallons of water. DB: That' ; s-- TH: It was huge! It was a hundred-feet long-- two-hundred feet long and a hundred-feet wide. Had three diving boards. DB: Mm-mm-mm. TH: It was-- and it was a beautiful, beautiful pool. DB: Now I' ; ve heard it-- it had a name? MH: Silver Plunge. TH: Silver Plunge. DB: The Silver Plunge. Hmm. Well maybe one day we' ; ll have-- MH: Yeah, now that that passed-- DB: Something-- MH: Hopefully-- DB: --that our kids can have in the future. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: We' ; ll keep our fingers crossed. Okay, so we' ; ve made it through high school and lifeguarding. TH: (Chuckling) Yeah! DB: What happened after high school? TH: Oh, I-- MH: He was quite the football player in high school. DB: Oh! TH: Nah. Nah, not really-- MH: Yes, you were Todd. TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were-- they were good. DB: Uh-huh. TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up. DB: Okay. TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma. MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that-- TH: I didn' ; t play in every game. MH: --you' ; re not telling the truth are you? TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games. DB: Oh my! TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that. DB: But the streak was broken. TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph). DB: Uh-huh. TH: But he left and he went to-- went out west somewhere. Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And-- DB: They' ; re the ones who built the house? MH: Yes. DB: Okay. MH: And they-- he-- his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most people called him Mood. DB: Mood? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mood Hughes? MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after-- He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870-- I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don' ; t know and the Sanky-- S-A-N-K-Y-- was from some singer and so his official-- he' ; d signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most people called him mood. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And he had a third grade education and he loved-- he worked in the oil fields in Pennsylvania. He was one of six or seven children and he went to work as a young boy working in the oil fields. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Back east, and then he came to Oklahoma as he was a teenager to work in the oil field. And that' ; s how it all started. DB: Now did his whole family move to Oklahoma or just he came-- MH: Eventually, some of them moved. But he--he was the first one. DB: And he was a young man then? MH: Teenager. DB: A teenager? MH: Mm-hmm. And came and started working in the oilfields and then just kind of worked his way up. He and Tom Slick (ph) you' ; ve heard the name Tom Slick (ph)? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: He and Tom Slick (ph) were partners at one time and I' ; ve been told everything they did was by a handshake. They never had anything written down. DB: Wow. MH: And that' ; s when-- after his partnership with Tom Slick (ph) is when he started his own company and it changed names. It was called various things and I will-- I will get-- I' ; ve got a lot of this written down and I can give you the exact names, but that' ; s how that all started. And he was in Drumright for a while and then that' ; s when he met my grandmother and I think-- I think there' ; s a family story there that was never quite told. Because of the, you know-- the difference in their ages and how they ended up. She worked for him. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And was a secretary, and then they ended up moving here and as a wedding present to her he built this house. DB: And how many years were there between them? MH: Twenty? Twenty or twenty-one years' ; difference in age. DB: Oh wow. MH: And he had been married before and had had a child and she had died as a young girl. Either of pneumonia or the flu. When was the flu pandemic? TH: 1919, 19-- MH: That might' ; ve been, you know it' ; s all kind of fuzzy because I never knew him. He died before I was born. DB: Hmm. MH: So. DB: But this house was a wedding gift that he had built for her? MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Wow. MH: They, they-- DB: And all on a third grade education? MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: Mm-hmm. And he-- it was started in ' ; 23 and completed in ' ; 24 and so they had lived here for three years before they adopted my dad. He was born in ' ; 27. So, yeah. Okay Todd you go on. TH: Oh well-- DB: Football! MH: Yeah. DB: Football. TH: Okay, yeah. We had a-- the school board members. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship football team at OU. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games-- DB: Oh wow! TH: -- this is off a team that hadn' ; t-- had this losing streak. That' ; s a true story about the losing streak. That was in the Oklahoma City Newspaper. DB: Hmm. MH: (Laughter) TH: Uhh-- MH: It must be true then if it was (Chuckling)-- TH: Twenty-six straight games. DB: Wow. TH: This would' ; ve been in the 50' ; s. Yeah-- MH: Well how many games did you win your senior year? TH: I think we won eleven and we got to the semi-finals and got beat and we thought we could win it all but we didn' ; t. We ran on to a team called Ada (Chuckling). DB: (Laughter) TH: Ada beat everybody. DB: Yeah. TH: Anyway-- DB: And they came back a few years later and were pretty tough too. TH: Oh yes. DB: (Laughter) TH: Then we had a basketball coach who was-- he looked like he was about-- he was a student, he looked so young. His name was Cletus James (ph), and these two coaches just died within the last year-- year and a half. DB: Oh really! TH: Yeah, they really had an influence on a lot of young men. And long story short they won the State Class A Foot-- Basketball Championship. So in time-- DB: So Bristow was-- TH: --Bristow High School men have ever won a state championship. DB: Was in-- TH: 1958. DB: 1958. MH: Your senior year. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And you were on the basketball team? TH: No, I didn' ; t play my senior year-- DB: Oh. TH: --because I wanted a job to make money and I worked in the Sukovaty feed store. DB: I' ; ve heard that name. TH: And delivered-- we delivered-- worked after school and on Saturdays delivering feed, because we had a lot of dairies back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And this-- this was before cattle cubes. I remember the first sack of cattle cubes I saw, but they had all this dairy feed and I remember it was all in hundred pound sacks. DB: (Chuckling) TH: (Chuckling) And you had to be a stud duck to pick up a hundred-pound sack on your shoulder and carry it. DB: All day long! TH: Well yeah. You' ; d take twenty of ' ; em on a back of a pick-up truck, that' ; s two-thousand pounds. And take them out to a dairy. But there were a lot of dairies in this area. So I didn' ; t-- I didn' ; t play. I' ; m sorry I didn' ; t. MH: Well you' ; ve also said, Todd you weren' ; t very good. TH: Well I-- Let me, let me say this I thought I was a lot better than I really was. (Laughter) TH: But we had some good athletes. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Some good kids and you had to have to win all those-- all those-- I think they only lost two games my senior year. MH: And you played college football. TH: Well yeah, that' ; s-- that' ; s a different story. But anyway, that all-- that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin' ; and there weren' ; t any deer in this country back then. There were no deer. DB: Huh. TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in-- started in the 40' ; s but they really didn' ; t take off until the 50' ; s. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck. DB: A one-day season? TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season. DB: Hmm. TH: And then I remember they started it-- after that they went to a four-day season, it' ; d be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn' ; t kill a doe ; it was just one buck. And I remember when they expanded that to a week and then now it' ; s two weeks for rifle season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: In bow season it' ; s three months. DB: But they didn' ; t have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day. TH: One day-- DB: Whatever you had to kill ' ; em with. TH: One day you had to shoot ' ; em with a shotgun-- DB: Oh. TH: --and a rifle slug. DB: No bow or anything like-- TH: No, they didn' ; t have any bow season back then. I remember the first bow season was at Spavinaw Refuge. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that was about that time. You couldn' ; t even buy a bow and arrow anywhere hardly. If you wanted to buy one, you had to buy it out of a catalog. And they didn' ; t have these fancy bows like they-- DB: Like they do now. TH: --just long bows-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --back then. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anyway, that was-- that was all the hunting and I always did that and then-- then my dad and three other guys had permission to hunt on the Mills Ranch and there was a big pond down there. The pond is still there and they had a duck blind on that pond. I remember going down there and going duck hunting, freezing to death and-- DB: Where' ; s the Mills-- TH: Uh-- DB: Is it-- TH: That was southeast of Bristow. DB: --south of town-- TH: Yeah. Ethan Mills came here before statehood-- MH: Explain to her who-- what the connection on down the line is to Ethan Mills, because I don' ; t know if she' ; s talked to anybody that would' ; ve explained that. DB: No. TH: Okay. Ethan Mills came here before statehood. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Missouri and he had a ranch. There' ; s a lot of grass land south and east of Bristow. As you go that way from Bristow there' ; s a lot of open ground. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It doesn' ; t have this cross timber-- this scrub oak on it. And he had that and they drilled wells on him and he was wealthy. And he would let my dad and three other men, Bus Blackburn, Mose LeForce and Clyde Warner hunt ducks down there on this big lake. To the north there was another big lake that he had built called Thoroughbred and he' ; d let Mr.-- Mr. Earl Ford and his friends hunt on it. MH: Earl Ford was Wanda Newton' ; s dad. DB: Oh okay. TH: At Ford Hardware. DB: Okay. TH: Okay. Anyway, I remember doing all that down there. Well Ethan Mills had two children and Ernest Mills who had the ranch over south of Edna (ph) and then Lucy Mae, who was an old maid. She wound up marrying Mr. Clayton Dial. DB: Oh! TH: And I believe if-- there' ; s a lot of money that' ; s been given away, when she passed away. DB: Yes. TH: I believe the Baptist Church got old. MH: And that' ; s what started the Library Board Inc. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was money from that and I think-- where else did she leave her money? TH: I think the Baptist Church got a bunch of it and I believe the elevator in the Baptist church was built for her. DB: And she was a Mills? TH: She was a Mills, but she married Clayton Dial Sr. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Who committed suicide. DB: And the Ethan Mills made his money from old oil wells-- TH: Ranching. Ranching-- DB: Oh, from ranching. TH: --he had white face cattle. MH: But they all-- so you just-- you just said that they drilled on his land. TH: Yeah there' ; s-- there' ; s still wells out there-- DB: So he got mineral rights, he got part of that. TH: Yes. Yes. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And raised-- TH: He borrowed from the Indians. See the Indians had no sense of ownership of surface acres. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And they-- they' ; d get a deed to it and what they-- they' ; d take it and sell it. Until the Drummond' ; s (ph) got their land in Osage County. DB: Hmm. TH: Come borrow money from the Drummond Hardware Store in Hominy. Signed a quick claim deed. They didn' ; t come pay by pay day, they' ; d go file the deed at the court house and we own the surface. DB: There you go. TH: So anyway, that' ; s the long story short that-- that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it? DB: Sure, let' ; s hear a Joe Ihle story. TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here. DB: I didn' ; t. TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let' ; s go forward to 1957 or ' ; 58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they' ; re talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn' ; t know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn' ; t know what Bus did. They didn' ; t talk about it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Those two guys get to talking. Joe Ihle is talking on a radio to the gun boat directing fire. Guess who he' ; s talking to? DB: (Chuckling) who? TH: He' ; s talking to Bus Blackburn. DB: That is crazy. MH: Isn' ; t that crazy? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: I' ; m sure you didn' ; t hear that story from Joe? DB: No. No. MH: (Chuckling) No. DB: He won' ; t talk about any of those days, so I' ; m glad that you shared that because they' ; d be lost anyway-- otherwise. TH: Well, I go to the bank to see Joe Ihle the last week of February every year. DB: Mm-hmm. Yep. You know he' ; s still-- he' ; s still going in there. Brent says he goes in about once a week. TH: I' ; ll, I' ; ll-- DB: Checks on his stuff. TH: I' ; ll tear up telling this story, but I go in and shake his hand to say thanks coach. MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about-- TH: (Chuckling) MH: --what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I' ; m sure? DB: It is Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Yes. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: Okay. TH: Rosemary' ; s father-in-law. DB: Yes. TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the ' ; coon huntin' ; ? MH: Yes. DB: Now, but he' ; s the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for. TH: That' ; s right. He was a-- MH: Yes, he was a coach. DB: Okay. MH: Yes. DB: Okay. TH: He was the football coach here for years. MH: Yes. DB: Okay, then I' ; ve got it. I' ; ve got the right person. TH: Have you ever been to Jamil' ; s in Tulsa? DB: I have. TH: Have you seen the picture on the wall of the football game-- MH: She' ; s probably been to the new one not the old one, Todd. DB: No, I went to the old one for prom. (Laughter) TH: Alright. MH: Uh-huh. DB: And I haven' ; t been back! (Laughter) DB: I mean it was wonderful but-- MH: Yeah. (Chuckling) DB: --it was like 1977-- MH: Right. DB: --or ' ; 78-- TH: There was a picture on a football on the -- DB: On the wall. TH: --of the Bristow football team in 1932 or ' ; 31, ' ; 32. DB: And he' ; s on that picture. TH: My dad was in it. Jimmy Elias, which is Jamil-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: --was on it. Ed Elias (ph), which was Eddie' ; s Steakhouse was on it. All their pictures there. They all got their letter sweater on. DB: I wonder if they moved it-- TH: It' ; s still on that-- I think it' ; s still in the new one. DB: --to the new place. MH: I don' ; t know. DB: That' ; d be worth the trip just to see if it' ; s-- MH: Uh-huh TH: Go up there-- DB: still up there. TH: Go up there and ask for Bernard say, " ; Is your daddy' ; s picture and football team still on the wall?" ; Cause I think-- DB: I heard stories, I need to see this picture. MH: Yeah. TH: Tell him you talked to Todd Herman. Yeah. DB: M-Kay. TH: Okay. Anyway, Mose and we' ; d go ' ; coon huntin' ; and my mother, " ; Oh my, when you gonna be home?" ; " ; Well we' ; ll be home by eleven o' ; clock." ; Well hell we wouldn' ; t come home until almost time the sun come up. (Laughter) TH: We' ; d be up to here with ' ; em. MH: Well didn' ; t you say that he would take you before school too? TH: Oh yeah! That' ; s another story. MH: (Chuckling) That' ; s what I was talking-- TH: Oh yeah! DB: And you made it to school? TH: No! I didn' ; t go to school, I' ; d go home and instead of knocking on the door, mother had a little swing out on the front porch. I' ; d lay down there and go to sleep. Mother would finally come out there and she' ; d-- " ; You come in the house!" ; . Boy I gotta tell ya, I forgot about that. Mose LeForce taught Drivers Ed. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: First class in the morning, he' ; d get some high school kid-- I was in the tenth grade, taking Drivers Ed. He' ; d get some high school kid to run his class and we' ; d go duck hunting. (Laughter) TH: Mose LeForce and my dad-- and they' ; d let me miss Drivers Ed. You know, it was a miss. And we' ; d go duck huntin' ; . They wanted me to go around and pick up the dead ducks after they shot ' ; em that' ; s the reason they wanted me to go. (Laughter) TH: Come home and I had-- oh I had-- I could not tell anybody that I had been duck hunting that morning. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: The school didn' ; t take up back then until nine o' ; clock. So the first hour it would be almost ten o' ; clock by the time we' ; d get back and-- DB: So you skipped Drivers Ed? TH: I-- yeah it was-- the coach, Mose would take me. My dad had-- you know, my dad let me go. Oh this was-- it was-- you know ; they were-- they were happy I was going, but we had a good time. DB: Sounds like it. TH: Well I' ; ve told you the sword fighting story. MH: Your dad started the gun show here. TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal. DB: I-- we don' ; t have a gun show anymore. MH: Hmm-uh. TH: That was a real-- that turned out to be a monster deal. MH: You need to talk about that a little bit. TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph). MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)? DB: No. TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified. MH: (Chuckling) DB: Oh my. TH: Uh-- MH: Who was corrupt? TH: Jimmy Weaver (ph) MH: Your dad wasn' ; t corrupt? TH: Well Jimmy Weaver (ph) was. MH: (Laughing) DB: But they got together-- TH: Are you-- are you familiar with the county commissioner scandal in Oklahoma in the 70' ; s? DB: No. TH: Every county there was a federal indictment issued out of federal court in Oklahoma City. And every county but two counties had a county commissioner indicted. DB: Oh, that' ; s not good. TH: Oh it was-- it was-- they were thieving. They were getting-- DB: Hmm. TH: --kickback from suppliers is what they were doing. DB: Oh. TH: And they got some woman to testify and line ' ; em up and the Caterpillar dealer in Oklahoma City was indicted and went-- people went-- people went to prison-- DB: Hmm. TH: --over this. Well my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) were buddies and they started this gun show. DB: Like the gun shows they have in Tulsa now? TH: Yes! This was-- this was the first one. It was called the Bristow National Gun Show and my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) put it on. DB: Huh. TH: And the county furnished all the tables, and they had it at the armory to start with and they outgrew the armory and they went to the old fairgrounds buildings. Out there by the softball field. You remember those Quonset huts? DB: Yes. Yes. TH: They' ; d fill those things up. They' ; d have people from all over the country-- DB: Huh. TH: --come in here for that gun show. It was huge. It was monstrous. They' ; d let the Bristow Professional the PBW-- DB: Uh-huh. TH: They cooked and served food out there. It was a big deal. DB: I didn' ; t even know that we had a gun show like that, ever. TH: Oh yes! Pause in recording. MH: Well I-- he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather-- DB: Yes. MH: --my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows. DB: Hmm. MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my-- he named it after my dad. DB: Hmm. MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that takes care of all the stray-- do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Where the Kelly' ; s (ph) lived? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay. The log home across the road from Paul and Brenda was originally the Hughes cabin that went with the dairy. And so all of that land, my grandfather owned. DB: Hmm. MH: And he had Jersey Cattle and he was nationally known as one of the top breeders of Jersey Cattle in the country. He was president at one time of the Breeders Association blah, blah, blah. And they-- and they produced milk and the milk was delivered to homes in Bristow. Todd remembers as a child-- DB: Hmm. MH: --getting milk delivered. And when my grandfather died in ' ; 48, my grandmother and my dad-- my dad was an only child. They-- they decided to sell The dairy and I have pamphlets that were printed with-- it was like a show dog. The cows were named and had numbers. You know when they were auctioning all the-- all of that off. So, I mean I wasn' ; t alive yet. DB: And so this-- this dairy was one of many? MH: Hmm-uh. It was just-- DB: But I mean-- MH: The Bill Mack Dairy. DB: But there were other dairies around Bristow then? Or that was the only dairy? TH: No. MH: I don' ; t know. I don' ; t know that. TH: There were other dairies. DB: There were other dairies? TH: Yes, there was-- DB: But this was a pretty good size dairy you said many head of Jersey-- MH: Yes. DB: --cows in there-- MH: In fact, he brought some cattle directly over from the Isle of Jersey. DB: Oh, wow. MH: And when he started this-- why there was that interest, I have no idea. And they built the log home to live in in the summer when it was so hot. DB: Hmm. MH: And my grandmother had a big garden there and I mean I' ; ve seen pictures and all of that of course. DB: And that would' ; ve really been in the country? MH: Yes, it was in the country. Yes. Mm-hmm. DB: During that time. MH: Mm-hmm. But when my dad was a child, he had-- they had horses and back here in the backyard there' ; s what we used to call the dog pen when I was growing up. And there' ; s a small outbuilding and it has a stable door on one side and they would keep his horse in town some. And I have a picture of my grandfather on a horse in the front horse in the front yard. It' ; s on the refrigerator DB: Oh, I saw it as I walked by. MH: Yes, uh-huh. That was here. DB: And then they would load the horse up and take-- MH: I guess, I don' ; t know. DB: Had a horse in town. MH: And my grandfather bred championship bird dogs. Aren' ; t they? Weren' ; t they bird dogs, Todd? TH: Mm-hmm. She' ; s got trophies upstairs. MH: I' ; ve got a lot of trophies for his dogs. I guess he was into everything and then he had this drilling company, oil company-- DB: That' ; s just amazing. MH: --that went through different changes, you know. He' ; d have one partner and then when he died, I believe it was still Shaull Hughes (ph) then it was Doak and Hughes you know Linda Trigalet and her family was involved and-- yeah. And my dad sold the company when I was a senior in high school, 1967. DB: What did your dad do? MH: He ran the drilling company. DB: Oh. Until he retired or-- MH: He decided that was during when things-- the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and I don' ; t know. DB: What about your mom' ; s family? MH: My mom-- my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby. Grandpa' ; s family came from Arkansas. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather' ; s grandmother-- grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school. DB: Oh my. MH: So she never-- she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like that. And they say if you-- a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not-- they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn' ; t-- DB: Yes. MH: -- I didn' ; t, you know the school and stuff. So-- so I' ; m-- what did we figure, Todd? I' ; m 1/16th? TH: 16th. MH: No, no, no-- TH: Or thirty-second. MH: Thirty-second. TH: Yeah. MH: Cherokee. TH: You look at it-- if you look at what the document-- if you look at the thing that her sister wrote-- MH: Mm-hmm. TH: --and start figuring it back where she' ; s 1/32nd. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And she has no way to prove that and I told her, you need to go do some research-- MH: I do, I have-- I can prove it. We have a family history on the Hodge side so I do have it. I have pictures of his mother in Indian garb and all that. But anyway, my grandmother was a Smith and I-- they were always from Oklahoma and my grandfather and my-- one of my grandmothers, no-- my grandfather and one of his brother in-laws started the Dr. Pepper bottling plant, that I' ; m sure you' ; ve heard about-- DB: Uh-- MH: --that was in Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And the brother in-law was named-- his name was Clell Long. And his-- DB: So many names in your family. MH: --and his wife Reba was my grandpas sister. DB: Huh. MH: And they started the bottling plant. I have a lot-- I have lots of pictures of that and after several years-- I don' ; t know the story behind it but grandpa sold his portion to Clell and grandpa continued to work for him for a while and then he put in a gas station which was between here and the Pizza Hut. Right Todd? I mean on that-- between where the bank is and the Pizza Hut. DB: Ida Fadely (ph) had that when I came here in ' ; 80, was Fadely' ; s. It was, I don' ; t remember what kind of gas station it was but it was on the hill between Pizza Hut and the bank. So-- MH: It was right in there, Todd. Wasn' ; t it. It was a Texaco Station? TH: Well, where it was, was down the hill. 66 came out of Bristow and went straight north to the entrance to the RL Jones (ph) property, and made a sharp right turn and went down and there was a bridge over Sand Creek. DB: Oh. TH: Right there where the bridge was when you crossed Sand Creek, on the right was a little old gas station and that was the Hodge Station. DB: Huh. TH: Yeah, I remember all the oil cans back there in the creek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Hodge station. TH: When I was a kid. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave-- DB: (Chuckling) MH: --by me telling this story. But, grandpa-- grandma would always go down-- she would help him down there, you know. And she' ; d clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men' ; s bathroom (Chuckling). DB: In the bathroom. MH: In the bathroom! And so-- TH: Every gas station had a condom machine. MH: That' ; s right. And so-- I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don' ; t know. DB: But he-- she got the coins. MH: She got the coins and that was her play money. TH: (Laughter) MH: You know, that she (Laughter)-- DB: That' ; s funny. MH: Yeah, yeah. And of course she was kind of embarrassed about that. She wouldn' ; t tell people, so I' ; m telling that (Inaudible) DB: (Laughter) MH: But-- DB: So it' ; ll be down for history' ; s sake. MH: And then grandpa, he did that for a while and then he went to work for Cunningham Chevrolet. And then he worked for the turnpike at the you know, the gates, you know. And that' ; s where he was working when he retired. He just did a little bit of everything. He actually went through junior high, education wise. My grandmother Hodge actually had a high school diploma which was not real-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --common back then. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And, but yeah and my mother had two brothers. My mother was the oldest. She went to school here of course. Both of my parents grew up in Bristow and lived in Bristow their entire lives. TH: Well, both of your parents were well educated. MH: Yes. My-- they both graduated from college. My dad graduated from OSU and then went to graduate school at TU. He was-- he was disabled from the Polio. He had Polio as a child, so he had a little bit of deformity in one hand and he was deaf in one ear. So he didn' ; t qualify, he couldn' ; t get in the-- he couldn' ; t get into the Army. He wanted-- during the war-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --this was the war time and he wanted to go so badly. And he told the story about at OSU he felt like he was one of the few males on campus and in fact he was in a gym class where he was the only person. And the-- the instructor said, " ; Well this is kind of ridiculous." ; or something like that. So he said you do what you want to and at the end of the semester, he played daddy a game of something and that was it-- DB: That was his final? MH: Yeah. But he was so upset that he could not get in the service. Somehow he managed to steal the hearing test. DB: Mmm. MH: The patterns, and he memorized it and he got in. DB: And he got in? MH: And he was in the Army and he was an MP in Japan after all of that my-- and his job-- one of his MP jobs, was to take the prostitutes every-- gather them up every week and take them for their weekly checkups. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: (Chuckling) and my grandmother was so horrified that he was doing that, that she made up what he was doing over there. She wouldn' ; t tell-- DB: Even though she got the play money from the condom-- MH: No this is-- DB: Oh (Chuckling). MH: Now this is the Hughes. DB: Oh okay. MH: This is the Hughes side. DB: (Laughing) MH: I' ; m sorry. DB: That' ; s alright. MH: But they-- yeah. She would tell-- she wouldn' ; t tell her church lady friends what he was doing over there. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: Now my dad was quite the-- the prankster. He did a lot of stuff. I heard stories about him when I was in high school from some of the same teachers that he had had. DB: Oh, yes. MH: Uh-huh. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah. DB: I could do that now. I' ; ve had so many different generations come through. MH: Mm-hmm DB: And it' ; s hard to not hold that against the child (Chuckling). MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Whenever you-- you know how the parent was-- MH: Right. DB: --whenever you had them, but-- MH: Uh-huh. DB: --you do. MH: And I have-- I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he-- you know he really-- you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl. DB: Oh. MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he-- daddy convinced Mose-- DB: Clyde' ; s dad? MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to-- it was New Orleans wasn' ; t Todd? DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad-- my grandfather evidently told Mose said, " ; You keep an eye on him don' ; t let him out of your sight." ; ' ; cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling). DB: (Laughter) MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we' ; re cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket-- DB: To the Sugar Bowl. MH: --to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of-- I can' ; t remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad' ; s handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde' ; s performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time? TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can' ; t remember but-- MH: They won one. TH: They won one and then the other one, Clyde didn' ; t remember anything about the game after the second-- after the first quarter. MH: Right. TH: He got thumped. MH: He got hit. TH: He got knocked out. MH: Because I think it said something about, this came from-- something about the goal post being torn down after TU won. So it must have been the first game so. Well, see Rosemary' ; s daughter Vicki (ph) and I have been lifelong best friends since we were babies and so I gave her all that stuff after you know I found-- DB: Oh, how wonderful. MH: --so she has all of that. So that was kind of a cool thing, you know. DB: If they had only known that Mose was a few years earlier, letting kids skip class to go hunting ducks-- TH: It was a-- DB: They probably wouldn' ; t have let him go to the Sugar Bowl. TH: It was hilarious. I was sworn to secrecy. I couldn' ; t tell anybody about that. Oh my gosh, and I didn' ; t. I didn' ; t. DB: Oh. TH: I had this little ole girl ask me. She said, " ; Where were you this morning?" ; I said, " ; Oh, I was late getting up." ; DB: (Chuckling) MH: Well and you need to tell-- you need to-- it needs to be on record about your mom being the town librarian for umpteen thousand years. TH: Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the ' ; 70' ; s I guess. MH: And you know where the library was don' ; t you? DB: Where the administration building-- MH: Yes. TH: That' ; s what it was, a Carnegie library. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries-- DB: You don' ; t think she was still there like in ' ; 81? TH: Oh, I can' ; t remember when-- DB: When she retired. I have been here since ' ; 81 and I can almost-- I think-- TH: Do you remember my mother-- DB: I think she was the one in there. MH: She might' ; ve been. I don' ; t remember because-- TH: Was she always telling you to be quiet and don' ; t talk. DB: Yes. MH: Yeah, that would be her. DB: She was kind of-- TH: Oh, she was meaner than shit and scary. MH: (Laughter) TH: I used to tease here I said, " ; Hell you' ; re a librarian-- DB: Them closing. TH: --in a town. You' ; re a librarian in a town nobody can read." ; DB: And Rita Oaks (ph) worked in the back and helped and that was Larry' ; s cousin. MH: See I don' ; t know a Rita Oaks (ph). DB: Max and Bernice Oaks (ph). Anyway Rita (ph) worked in the library in one of those back offices-- ' ; cause it seemed like Ms. Herman always set up here at the front. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And she had an office there were two offices behind the central desk. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And then there was somebody else always there, but I can' ; t remember. A boy? A man? I don' ; t know. But anyway, she was the town-- imposing town librarian-- MH: Yes. DB: -- for many, many years. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Over twenty years-- TH: I didn' ; t live here at that time. I would-- MH: But she was very helpful. You know, because back in the day when we had to do research papers. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, your sophomore, junior and senior year. It was all-- you had to do everything by looking through a card catalog-- DB: Yes. MH: --and looking up stuff and Mrs. Armith (ph) (chuckling) was extremely helpful-- DB: Yes. MH: --about that kind of stuff and she was very knowledgeable. You know, she could be a pill but-- and people that we know now that worked with her, you know like student aids or something-- back then would help her at school. I mean at the library after school. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, they loved working with-- she knew a lot for somebody that wasn' ; t a librarian by training. She-- DB: So how did she become the librarian? MH: Do you know Todd? Do you remember? TH: The mayor was Bill Shibley (ph). My dad was the city clerk. DB: And they needed one? TH: And they-- they needed one and so Bill Shibley (ph) and the council agreed with it and she-- they hired her to be the librarian. She was just pleased as hell to get out of the house and go to the library, and she basically self-trained herself. She had to fuss with the library board all the time. DB: (Chuckling) TH: They were very unkind and ignorant. I won' ; t name names. MH: No. TH: But they' ; re-- they' ; re here. I think they' ; re-- MH: Todd! TH: -- probably all gone by now, but anyway-- DB: No names. MH: No names. TH: -- oh it was ugly. There was a lot of fussing going on. You know, and-- DB: But she held her own? She held her own. TH: Pretty much. She did alright and-- DB: Well she built it up to something that was pretty-- TH: Well she got-- DB: --pretty great for-- TH: --she got mad. They had some library graduates. Library science grads come down here from OSU-- DB: Hmm. TH: --and go through the library. " ; Oh you don' ; t need this book. You don' ; t need that book." ; And they went through and they got rid and she had some-- she had some great material down there. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She had a pictorial history of the Civil War. There were three big volumes and they made her get rid of that. When I found that out I just absolutely-- DB: Hmm. TH: --I got so upset about that and I went to Bill Bursler (ph) and told him what a dumb shit he was. MH: Okay Todd. That' ; s enough on that. TH: So I won' ; t say anymore. MH: No, don' ; t. Honey, don' ; t. TH: I could not believe they threw that stuff out. DB: Yeah. TH: She said, " ; I was in tears when they boxed that up and carried it out of here." ; They had-- they had these library science people come down. You know you still had the old Dewey Decimal System of Classification going back then. DB: Oh yes. TH: You remember studying-- DB: Well they still have-- TH: --about that? DB: Well they still put books up with the Dewey Decimal System but-- TH: Do they? Okay. DB: Yeah. TH: That' ; s good. DB: Well they still have them shelved that way but-- TH: Now everything all digital and-- DB: --but-- TH: -- and all that stuff. DB: You look everything up digitally but there' ; s still-- TH: That' ; s right. So anyway, that-- I remember being all upset about getting rid of all that Civil War stuff. DB: I was always the one when Jennifer (ph) would take old books out of the library-- I couldn' ; t let an old book go by and I' ; d always-- whenever I was teaching and I' ; d say, " ; I don' ; t know how I' ; d use that in my classroom, but let me have that book anyway." ; And kind of house some of those old books and the kids don' ; t look at books nowadays. TH: No. DB: Because it takes time to look at a book. They can' ; t get to it immediately. Some of those books were pictorial of the National Parks. MH: Priceless. Yes. DB: Or whatever. TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And it just-- I couldn' ; t see her-- TH: No, some of that stuff-- DB: --do away with ' ; em. So I understand the feeling. TH: --some of the stuff was published in the 20' ; s. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: You know, it was old. DB: Mm-hmm. I understand those feelings. TH: Yeah. DB: Well now, think hard about-- TH: I have another story-- DB: Okay. TH: --about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police. DB: Okay. TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of-- and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is? DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show? TH: No. DB: Okay. TH: That was my dad. DB: Okay. TH: This was his dad. DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad. TH: Who at that time in the 20' ; s or in the 30' ; s was the Chief of Police. MH: The Judge Herman. TH: That' ; s the Judge Herman. DB: Oh, okay. So I know what one is, but why don' ; t you explain what a soup kitchen is. TH: Well that' ; s where you had a place that you could feed hungry men. Hungry people. Men, women children, whoever showed up. And there was a big ice plant at Main and the railroad tracks. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: On the southeast corner across the street. Really where the-- DB: Community Bank drive-thru-- TH: Community Bank drive in would be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It was a great big building. Had a big steam generator in it, and they made ice. Sam Blackburn (ph) was the manager of that thing and they had-- they made ice because the trains would come through here with produce and they' ; d have to keep-- you didn' ; t have refrigerated-- DB: Right. TH: --cars back then-- DB: Right. TH: --if you wanted-- if you were shipping vegetables from California to Chicago, you did it by train and you put ice in it. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And that' ; s the reason you had the ice plant. Well they set the soup kitchen up down there at the ice plant and I remember seeing pictures of men lined up to get food. It was a soup kitchen, they cooked it and fed it-- fed people there. DB: Was that like during the depression? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: That' ; s during the depression of the 30' ; s. That' ; s the reason Oklahoma was so heavily democratic for years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Because of Roosevelt. They didn' ; t like Hoover who was a Republican. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: ' ; Cause he didn' ; t do anything about the depression. There was no government relief back then. You wound up having the WPA around here and everything. I can show you WPA bridges now that are still on these county roads and bridges and stuff that are still good. DB: Wasn' ; t it the WPA that did something at the park? MH: Built-- DB: Built the amphitheater or the-- MH: Built the amphitheater-- TH: Yes, that was the amphitheater, MH: --and the entrance to the park-- DB: Yes. MH: --there was the big plaque there which they preserved. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: When they-- when they changed that entrance. The way it looks now with the-- you know they replaced the stone with the brick-- DB: Yes, I remember-- MH: --that was WPA. Wasn' ; t it Todd? TH: Yes. DB: I thought I had remembered hearing that. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And there was a ranch down south of Slick now. You go down this ole ranch road and there' ; s a bridge-- a concrete bridge up there. DB: Yes. TH: And it' ; s got WPA on it. And it was an old county road and since it' ; s been abandoned. DB: Huh. TH: And there' ; s another WPA bridge out on 201st like you' ; re going to where Levan Kelly lives. Says WPA it' ; s on the concrete. And that was started by president Roosevelt. MH: So the soup kitchen Todd, that-- there were-- TH: Yeah. MH: --soup kitchens all over the country. TH: Yeah. But my grandfather-- MH: But he was the one that started it here-- TH: Started it here in Bristow. DB: How long did it-- TH: I don' ; t know. I' ; ve seen pictures of men. My mother had some pictures. They were probably at the public library and got thrown out with all the trash. MH: (Laughter) DB: But that happened for the whole time-- TH: Well we had a great economy-- DB: I know-- good-- TH: Depression had started in October of 1929 and lasted actually until World War II started. We still were in a depression when World War II started. DB: Okay, so the soup kitchen could' ; ve easily been there ten years? TH: Well, I don' ; t know how long it was-- DB: But it could have been there for a while-- TH: Well no, it' ; s just-- that' ; s the way it was-- MH: Well-- TH: I' ; ve always heard this my whole life. " ; You want (Indecipherable) tell it like it is kid." ; . He went to a man named RL Jones (ph). Have you ever heard that name? DB: I have. TH: That' ; s Roger Collins (ph) grandfather. RL Jones (ph) was a Mississippi planter that came up here. His brother was in on the Cushing oil field. Lots of money. He went to RL Jones (ph), and RL (ph) said " ; What do you need? Just go down to the Safeway Store and get what you need and I' ; ll take care of it." ; RL Jones (ph) had a big interest in this country. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And was very philanthropic. MH: Well, and I think too, Todd-- I mean like, I did not grow up the way my dad did. My dad lived an extremely charmed life and they had people that worked for them full time. That kind of thing. But my dad-- because during the depression and all that, he lived totally differently than the people that were having to go to the-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --soup kitchens to eat and all that. Because of that and he can remember as a child-- you know, hearing stories and seeing and things with the Dust Bowl and all of that. He was extremely generous. We were taught to be generous. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: He felt like, he never felt he was better than anybody else and he could talk to anybody-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: -- you know, from the lowest of the low to the, you know. So I think everybody came out of that era, especially in Oklahoma. It effected everybody differently-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know my mother grow up-- grew up, they didn' ; t have much. She didn' ; t have indoor plumbing until she was like nine years old. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, so it was-- DB: Right. Well, because then my mother, she' ; ll save the smallest portion of food-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --because she can eat it and you know, so-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and when we-- when my grandmother passed away-- MH: Right. DB: --we went through her freezer and they would find really small amounts of things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but when you live through that time with nothing, you saved everything-- MH: Yes. DB: --because you didn' ; t know where your next meal was gonna come from or how much you would have. You might need to piece-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it together with all these-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --little things and so I can see that you had people coming out feeling that they didn' ; t know where their next meal was gonna come from-- MH: Right. DB: --and then you had the people over here who saw the-- what it had done and wanted to be-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --generous and you know. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: My dad was that way. He was, you know he was a young man during The Depression and had been poor-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --and had a hard time. It had effected my dad-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --all his life. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Anything he could take and convert to cash, he would do it. He got in my mother' ; s jewelry box one time and she had all this jewelry because her grandfather-- her father had the jewelry store. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And when they sold that, she took a bunch of it. And it was-- it was not, you know. He takes it and sells it! MH: (Laughter) TH: To Jim Tallent at the pawn shop down here and she comes up and it' ; s missing. And she keeps (Indecipherable) getting in her jewelry box-- DB: Oh my! TH: --and she raised hell with my dad and made him go back down to Jim Tallent-- DB: (Laughter) and get her jewelry back! TH: --and get her jewelry back (Laughter). I remember that going on. Do you know what he did? I remember her telling me that on the phone. I just absolutely, absolutely dying laughing. DB: I went to my grandmother' ; s house one time and she had this-- I still have the lamp in my bedroom. But she had this lamp, it had no shade and it was green and I just-- oh I wanted that lamp. Larry and I-- it was, we had just got-- been married a few years and you could take things like that on the airplane then-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and so, she gave-- they lived in Farmington, New Mexico. So she gave me that lamp and I remember my grandad saying, " ; Why do you always give away our best stuff?" ; MH: (Laughter) DB: And this thing had been out in the garage for who knows how long-- MH: Yeah! TH: Yeah. DB: --but he was saying-- accusing her of giving away their best stuff and she' ; d say " ; Well, they' ; re gonna use it." ; TH: Well, you have to understand what makes these people-- you know. MH: Well my mother would save-- which maybe a lot of people do, my brother does it. I couldn' ; t do it, drives me nuts. You know like the baggies? You use a baggy to put something in the fridge? DB: And wash it out and use it again-- MH: My mother would wash them out and that was the-- do you do that too? DB: No, my mother does though. MH: Oh, and that' ; s from the depr-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --I mean that is not having much-- DB: She saves aluminum foil too. (Laughter) MH: Yes, mother did. Yes. DB: Yes. MH: Yes. Yeah, so it' ; s, you know. DB: It' ; s all from that time period and I learned from someone whose parents had been through that, so I had those tendencies. That I' ; ll save a little bit of food-- MH: Right, well I do that too. DB: Or I want to take care to reuse things-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --when I can. Maybe not to the extreme she does-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --but you know, we' ; re all effected. Your generous with what you have, because of what you saw parents do. Because they had seen-- MH: Right. DB: --their parents do it and we are. MH: But you know, it' ; s interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --the second. So they-- and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad' ; s funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home-- I mean an establishment, not a home home. DB: Right. MH: But they called it a home and they said, " ; Okay, she' ; s" ; -- they walked in this, it would be like a big dorm-- a ward, they called it. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: There were all these cribs and the little girl was supposedly across the room at the other end. Well they-- so they' ; re walking to go see her and they walk by this crib where this child is just screaming and crying and just going crazy and my grandfather stopped and he said, " ; We' ; ll take that one." ; and it was my dad. DB: (Gasp) Oh how awesome! TH: That' ; s a great story. DB: That is a good story. TH: You' ; ve never told me that. MH: Oh yes I have. DB: (Laughter) TH: (Laughter) I couldn' ; t remember. MH: Yeah. DB: You didn' ; t remember it. That is unbelievable. TH: I' ; m always in trouble for not remembering. MH: And so my dad always said-- and he said this all the time, " ; I believe in miracles." ; Because from that moment was a miracle and when he was-- when my mother was pregnant with me, my dad was real worried that he would pass something along to me. Because he had no-- no genuine relatives and so my grandmother wrote a letter to the home-- DB: Where he had come from. MH: Where he had come from, and said she wanted as much information as possible. And I have the letter that they wrote her back, and his-- they told her that there was nothing to, you know be concerned about. His father had been in his forties and was an attorney and they were from back east. His mother who had been sent to this place in Kansas City had come from a wealthy family. She was like nineteen or twenty and she was a legal secretary. DB: So they were-- MH: So you kind of put together the story behind that. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And talked about her physical descriptions. Talked about his dads and you know, so that was-- you know. His fears were put aside-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --but he was so concerned and when I graduated, when I graduated from Bristow, I went to KU to college and when I was I think maybe a junior, there was big article in the Kansas City paper about-- it was around the time that they were forcing adoption records to-- they were start trying to get some of them opened. And there was a lawsuit against the home which was still existed that my dad had come from in Kansas City. DB: Hmm. MH: And that all of these people were signing on to this lawsuit to force them to open their records. And I remember calling home and telling daddy about it and saying, " ; You need to do this, you know here is who you contact" ; you know blah blah blah. And he said, " ; No." ; and I said, " ; What, you why?" ; you know and he said, " ; I had the best parents anybody could' ; ve ever wanted. I was blessed. That' ; s all I need to know." ; DB: There you go. MH: So he never would-- DB: Well and his fears also had been taken care of when they told him that little bit that they told him, so. MH: And we all turned out semi-normal. So-- (Laughter) TH: You' ; re more than semi-normal. DB: (Laughter) MH: Well and so-- TH: You' ; re outstanding. MH: No, well and then there' ; s a great-- I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to a Kelly somewhere along the line. There' ; s a great story about my dad and Tracy Kelly. They played together, they were the same age, they played together as kids. And there' ; s a story, Tracy told this at my dad' ; s funeral. This was a true story. One day he was-- Tracy came over here to play with daddy. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And daddy got tired of Tracy. DB: (Laughter) MH: So he-- the story was a hammer. I don' ; t know if it was a real hammer, but he picked up a hammer and hit Tracy in the head. DB: Oh my. MH: And so he started screaming and crying. My dad went and got on the phone and he called Dorcas and he said, " ; You need to come get Tracy-- (Laughter) MH: --he won' ; t stop crying and I' ; m tired of playing with him!" ; (Laughter) MH: And they were like six years old or something like that. DB: Oh! Oh my goodness! MH: Yeah, they were just little boys-- DB: The little boy called Dorcas. MH: Yes! DB: Oh! MH: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. MH: ' ; Cause see all those families-- DB: He' ; s crying and he won' ; t stop-- MH: Crying. Yeah. You know ' ; cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, it' ; s just-- there' ; s so much that' ; s-- all that history' ; s dying off. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know? DB: And it' ; s just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --it' ; s all still kind of connected. MH: And when I was-- I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these-- this couple-- I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, " ; Well I grew up in Oklahoma" ; and the guy said, " ; Really, where?" ; and I said, " ; Oh, you' ; ve never heard of it." ; He said, " ; Well try me." ; And I said, " ; It' ; s a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow." ; And he said, " ; Bristow?" ; he said, " ; There' ; s--" ; he said, " ; I know something about Bristow." ; He said, " ; There' ; s a real famous athlete from Bristow." ; And I said, " ; Really?" ; (Laughter) MH: And he goes, " ; Yeah! Real famous." ; I said, " ; What' ; s his name?" ; and he said, " ; Clyde LeForce" ; I said, " ; Oh, Clyde. Clyde' ; s just Clyde." ; (Laughter) DB: He' ; s not famous. Yes. MH: I' ; ve known him my whole life. DB: Yes. MH: You know ; it was just-- but that was so strange. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, just to have that-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Your parents are friends and then your friends and you know. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And we didn' ; t even know each other so. DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman. TH: Well what do you want-- DB: Make sure that we have covered everything. TH: Oh! We haven' ; t even scratched the surface ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn' ; t do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: And had a life-- a lot of lifelong friends. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: The public school was-- I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn' ; t make a living. DB: Hmm. TH: And that' ; s another long story. DB: Where' ; d you go to school? TH: Well I wound up going to school at Alva, Oklahoma at Northwest Oklahoma State. That' ; s where I graduated from. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: And I' ; d gone down to OU as a invited walk on. Stayed three days and left. I was not near as good as I thought I was. (Laughter) TH: And I was always ashamed about that but anyway, went up to Central State and enrolled and went to school up there and quite frankly, I was very immature. I couldn' ; t stay out of the beer joints and Oklahoma City had all these honky tonks, and I had a fake ID that said I was twenty-one when I was nineteen or twenty. You could buy one of those for five dollars from the print shop at Edmond. They' ; d make you up one and I had bad grades and you know if you don' ; t go to class-- MH: You flunked it out, Todd! TH: I didn' ; t flunk out. MH: (Laughter) DB: You were not gonna go through that first grade thing again. MH: No. Right. Yeah. TH: I was gonna go ahead and volunteer for the army ' ; cause you had the military draft back then and I-- my mother had a friend. She was my friend too, her name was Marie Arthurs. Her husband was Judge Arthurs, he was a superior court judge. Not district court, Oklahoma still had the superior court-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --system back then. And she came over at Christmas and she had gone to Alva to teach and she was over there and my mother was so upset with me-- MH: Well they were all long time family here. I don' ; t know if you' ; ve heard about the Arthurs at all, but. TH: Yeah, the Arthurs family. She called me and she said, " ; Would you come over." ; She lived right next door to the Schumacher funeral home. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: There was a house there. That' ; s where they lived. Well her son is my friend that lives in Cushing. DB: Mm-hmm. I remember that name. TH: And Stewart (ph) was Stewart was-- MH: He was sword fighting with him. (Laughter) TH: Yeah. That sword fighting buddy. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: Stewart (ph) had gone up there out of college. Stewart (ph) was a great athlete and she came over and said, " ; Todd, I' ; ve called the football coach at Alva. He' ; s expecting you to come up and visit with him tomorrow." ; That' ; s the way she put it. She said, " ; I hope you go." ; DB: And you went. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: So the next morning, I left and I drove up to Alva. I never seen a wheat field that big in my life. DB: (Laughter) TH: I had to stop and ask a guy. I said, " ; What' ; s all that green stuff growing out there?" ; and he says, " ; Son, that' ; s winter wheat." ; They didn' ; t grow any winter wheat around here. Corn and milo and cotton and stuff like that. I remember seeing that, and anyway I went up there and met the football coach, and he said, " ; Yeah" ; he said, " ; Come on up and I' ; ll give you a little scholarship." ; And so hell, I went and there was about three of us that wound up going up there to school. Burton Lincoln (ph) and Duwayne Whited (ph) and I don' ; t know. So I went up there and went to school. DB: And played ball? TH: Yeah! You know, hell I hadn' ; t had a-- I hadn' ; t had a shoulder pads or helmet on three years. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And I had chances to go to small schools out of high school, but my dad always talked me out of it. My dad was a very negative person. You know, everything was the dark at the end of the tunnel and I am definitely not that way. I' ; m the light at the end of the tunnel, we' ; ll get to the end of the tunnel if there' ; s a problem, we' ; ll figure it out. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: She gets mad at me for saying that they' ; ll figure it out. MH: (Laughter) TH: And she worries. Mary D.' ; s a planner and a plotter and I' ; m not. I just kind of fly by the side of my pants, and anyway I went up there and here' ; s all these ole boys and there were a couple of guys that I had gone to high school with that were up there and I went up there and I wound up playing and graduating. It was a big deal when I graduated and I never did teach and I wound up, I was in the international guard and I did that so I didn' ; t-- I was about to get drafted. And this was Pre-Vietnam but I didn' ; t wasn' ; t to get drafted in the army ' ; cause I talked to too many draftees. If you can avoid it, do it. But anyway, did that and went to work for an oil field chemical company and lived up in Kansas and went through a marriage and left and came back to Oklahoma and wound up going to work for a big insurance company, being an insurance salesman. My God, I didn' ; t want to be an insurance salesman. DB: (Laughter) TH: But it was a good thing I did and I worked for this company for twenty-six years. DB: Oh my. TH: And I retired when I was fifty-seven. And I' ; ve had a good life, I' ; ve-- it' ; s like ole Levi. I said, " ; You know you grow up, you want to be a play boy." ; And I don' ; t mean a play boy-- DB: Right. TH: Play boy. I mean, live the good life. DB: That' ; s right. TH: Levi loves to hunt. I' ; ve corrupted him and I' ; ve corrupted his brother Michael. Those guys can do it all. DB: (Laughter) TH: You know? DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They' ; ve been taught how to shoot. They' ; ve all got nice guns and they' ; re my students. That' ; s what I call em' ; . They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks. MH: (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. TH: I' ; m proud of em' ; . They can do all that stuff. DB: Well of course! You should be. TH: And-- DB: And Levi and Michael are your? TH: That' ; s my great nephews. MH: Great nephews. DB: Great nephews. TH: That' ; s my niece, Kelly' ; s (ph) children. DB: Okay. TH: And when she called me up when Levi, I think was nine and Michael was eleven and said " ; Oh Todd, these boys are just bugging me. They want to go hunting so bad." ; And it was about three days, four days before deer season, so hell I gathered em' ; up and we go to learn how to shoot a rifle one afternoon. They get to go deer hunting and kill a deer opening day and I remember Levi calling his mother on the cell phone jumping up and down, " ; I killed a deer mom, I killed a deer!" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: You know. MH: Todd just has one sister so that' ; s-- TH: Anyway, there-- I don' ; t have any actual children. I have-- I raised a couple of kids with my second wife that didn' ; t turn out too well. The boys dead and the girls-- the girls just-- MH: Has issues. TH: --she has a lot of issues. But, she had two children. Two little girls and we helped raise those two little girls and so I' ; m close to them. (Indecipherable) I went over there, took a birthday gift to the seven-year-old and the three-year-old comes up and she says, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; DB: (Laughter) TH: ' ; Cause I always take ' ; em a box of tacos. They love tacos. DB: You forgot the tacos. TH: I didn' ; t take the tacos, and the three-year-old comes up, " ; Where' ; s the tacos papa?" ; (Laughter). DB: Hmm. TH: Anyway, that' ; s just part of my-- that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me right in. DB: (Laughter) TH: You did, didn' ; t you? MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago. TH: Yeah it was. That' ; s-- how long you-- how long have we been married? Let' ; s see if she can remember? MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up. TH: Well- MH: Fifteen years? TH: Oct. Sixth. MH: Fifteen years this year. TH: Yeah. DB: Fifteen years. MH: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don' ; t think I would' ; ve liked him if (Laughter) when we were growing up. TH: No, she wouldn' ; t of. MH: He was quite the (Indecipherable). What was it you won every year as a big wheel? Loudest-- TH: Most mischievous. MH: Mischievous! Yeah. TH: Yeah. DB: Oh my goodness. TH: Embarrassed my mother and my dad. " ; That' ; s all you do." ; DB: (Laughter) TH: Weren' ; t you most likely to succeed and smartest? MH: No. DB: Instead of Mischievous. TH: No I' ; m just-- I am. You are what you are! DB: That is! TH: Isn' ; t that the truth? DB: That is the absolute truth. TH: And I have had-- I' ; ll have to say this, the experiences that I had growing up in Bristow have served me well, I have many friends. I' ; ll give an example, on Tuesday of this week was the opening day of turkey season. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: It' ; s a tradition that myself and two of my friends open the season together. There-- we' ; re all Bristow boys. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: My two friends don' ; t live here, but this is still home. Their parents are buried here ; they will be buried here. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: I will be buried here in Bristow. This is home. We have all these pleasant memories-- DB: That' ; s right. TH: --about running up and down these streets here on west-- the west side of town. MH: And it' ; s so different than it used to be. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. DB: I mean there are factions around, you know little groups around town that I feel like there' ; s that same connection to the town, but they' ; re few and far between. And most of them have connections that go back, and back, and back and they' ; re just continuing the tradition with their children. I mean Linda and her-- I see her children raising their children in the same way with the craziness and the-- MH: Right. DB: The playing and I mean the stories that she used to tell living on Sixth Street and it was just like there' ; s that past. TH: Sixth Street was the big time street. This-- I was raised on Ninth Street. My two friends that I was telling you about-- one of them was raised over here on Eighth street, the house is still there. The other one was raised up on Tenth Street. MH: Oh and see we had like the house behind here. That was the John' ; s family. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: And they had four kids. We were each the same age as the other one. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, Judd Johns. You know Judd? DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Okay, he and my brother, they were like a year apart and they-- we, the four was each other' ; s family. We were together all the time and our bedroom was up here and Billy-- the oldest one-- his bedroom was on the back part of the house also. And when we were kids we would raise our windows and you know we listened to WLS out of Chicago, cause that was the station-- the rock station-- TH: That' ; s right. MH: --that you could get at night. TH: That and WOAI MH: Yeah. TH: In San Antonio. MH: And we would turn our radios on the same station and we would just talk out the back windows. We had phones but you know, we used to keep their Santa gifts in our house and you know Judd and my brother when they were little boys, the Kirchner' ; s lived on the corner up here and Billy, Mick (ph) and Judd were playing detectives. Now they are little kids and they go knock on Mrs. Kirchner' ; s door and they had had no children and they were old at the time. And they said, " ; We need to come check out your house." ; And she said, " ; Why?" ; and they told her something about, " ; Well there was a suspect." ; I' ; m sure they didn' ; t use the name suspect, but they had to go check out her house and she let them in. She let ' ; em go through all of the whole-- and of course and then I' ; m sure she called my mom and Virginia, you know. But you know, there were the Johns-- Virginia Johns used to keep pop on her back porch and that was in bottles and you' ; d have the cases and-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --they bottled, okay. Well there was a family by the name of the Coburgs (ph) that lived two or three doors up, a bunch of kids. Well the Coburgs (ph) would come and get into the pop all the time. DB: Hmm. MH: So Virginia-- the mom-- Judd' ; s mother, who was a riot. She thought, " ; I' ; m gonna get them." ; So she took some of those pop bottles and she opened ' ; em and she poured half the pop out and then filled the rest with vinegar or something foul and then put the cap back on. (Laughter) DB: Oh my goodness. MH: I mean I could talk for hours about stories about growing up here with you know, and the kids. But it' ; s like Todd said, everybody knew everybody. You couldn' ; t get away with doing anything. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: You know, when we would go trick-or-treating people would set up haunted houses in their homes, and you' ; d go in and you never thought anything about it. And our parents weren' ; t with us we were just in gangs. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Walking the streets and it' ; s just-- my boys didn' ; t grow up that way. You couldn' ; t you just didn' ; t do that ; you know? DB: Well when I moved here, I was impressed because I had never lived-- I had lived in Tulsa-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --and then I had lived in Owasso. I had never lived someplace where they would close Main Street for whatever function and you could just walk around in the middle of the road. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: And everybody knew everybody and I was so glad that I was finally here and-- TH: I knew that there was seven or eight Bristow policeman. I knew every one of ' ; em by first name. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: They knew who I was. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: If I got out of line-- DB: That-- TH: You weren' ; t gonna hide it. DB: My husband grew up here, so he-- MH: Exactly. DB: --is the same way. TH: Yes. MH: That' ; s exactly the truth. DB: And then they' ; d run him down because he was kind of-- liked to visit those places you were talking about and he liked to race cars and they would pull him over and put him in jail and then let him go and say, " ; Go home" ; and he would go home and then be right back out a few hours later-- TH: They had-- DB: --doing the same thing! TH: --and they had one police car. DB: And they, you know-- but-- TH: One police car for the whole town. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Now they got thirteen of ' ; em down there. MH: And we had a Teen Town (ph) DB: Mm-hmm. MH: To go-- what they would do like a big thing and you know-- the fair-- we still call it-- I still call it the fairgrounds. I don' ; t know what they call it now. But where they have all those buildings-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --that the city stores stuff, you know? There' ; d be like big festivals in the fall and you could go out-- who knows what we did out there. I don' ; t remember, I just-- it was around-- DB: It was the fairgrounds. MH: Yeah and it was around Halloween and you know-- TH: Well they had-- they had a fair. They had the Creek County Free Fair out there in the fall. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Was that what it was? TH: Yes, that was a big deal. They had a carnival come in. Oh I remember all that. DB: If there was fairgrounds, there had to be a fair. TH: I have-- MH: Yeah, well what' ; s-- TH: --to tell you the Adlai Stevenson story. I was told to be sure and tell this. MH: Oh (Laughter) DB: Okay. Adlai Stevenson. TH: Alright, do you know who Adlai Stevenson is? DB: No. TH: Alright. In 1952, Eisenhower is gonna run for president on the Republican ticket. The Democrats nominated the US Senator from Illinois named Adlai Stevenson. He is on a train trip. That' ; s how everybody traveled back then-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: --was by train. The only people that flew all the time were the president. Adlai Stevenson comes on the train and stops in Bristow. They had a big parade down Main Street for Adlai Stevenson and they had a bunker-- they had a stage set up at Fourth and Main in the middle of the street and Adlai Stevenson got up and gave a speech. DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Stewart Arthur' ; s dad, Judge Arthurs told us where to get because he was the one escorting Adlai Stevenson. He was a-- this was all Democratic country back then. DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. TH: The only Republicans were the Kelly' ; s. That' ; s the only Republicans in town. Everybody else was a Democrat. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: From Roosevelt. Because of the Depression. MH: Well-- TH: Now, I can remember-- MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Pardon? MH: My dad wasn' ; t a Democrat. TH: Well, he was in a minority back then. MH: Oh. TH: He was really, he was. DB: But Bristow was a stop-- TH: This was a stop on the train-- DB: --on this presidential-- TH: On the-- yeah. They got out and he had-- DB: Hmm. TH: And I remember Adlai Stevenson-- MH: How old were you, Todd? Do you remember? TH: Well, it was in 1952. MH: Oh-- TH: Adlai-- MH: --so you were like thirteen, something like that? TH: Yeah. Twelve, thirteen years old. I was probably in the seventh grade. MH: Well my grandmother could remember when they would talk about-- she would talk about when Eleanor Roosevelt came through-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: Yeah. MH: --on the stops. Because she was doing like a WPA. TH: (Cough) Pardon me. MH: Wasn' ; t she something-- TH: No that was for the amphitheater at Bristow. DB: Mm-hmm. MH: Yeah. TH: She gave the speech dedicating the amphitheater. DB: But that' ; s pretty amazing that Bristow was a stop-- TH: Well this was the main line. DB: --on the presidential-- TH: The Frisco Railroad was the main line. It hooked in and went on west. DB: Well I had no idea. TH: Oh, we had-- MH: There was a lot of-- TH: A lot of trains. A lot of passenger trains. MH: Back then from what I understand, in the ' ; 30' ; s, ' ; 40' ; s, late ' ; 20' ; s, there was a lot-- there were a lot of influential people that lived here that were kind of known in their own right in their area or whatever-- DB: Mm-hmm. MH: --you know, and a lot of money here then. A lot. It' ; s how all of these beautiful churches got built and-- DB: Mm-hmm. TH: That was the women making the oil men build the churches. The Presbyterian, Christian-- MH: The Methodist. TH: -- the Methodist, the Baptist. DB: Hmm. TH: All these big, nice churches were built by the oil people. DB: Well, and the homes too. That are scattered around town, that are-- TH: Boy I tell you what you should-- what you people should do. Interview Brick Kirchner when he was alive. MH: They might have, Todd. DB: They may have. TH: He was-- MH: They might have caught--interviewed him or Maree. TH: --Absolutely amazing guy. DB: I know they did the-- TH: And Mr. Friarson (ph) DB: Freeland (ph)? TH: Who? DB: No. TH: Krumme? DB: Krumme. I know they' ; ve interviewed the Krumme' ; s. TH: Yes. George Krumme. DB: Yes. TH: Harland (ph) and George. MH: Did they interview Tracy or Levan? DB: I-- I don' ; t know. MH: Back then? DB: I don' ; t think so. MH: ' ; Cause Levan was a gold mine too. Roger Collins (ph) is a gold mine. DB: Royce is the only one-- MH: Yeah, that' ; s Peter' ; s (ph) dad. DB: Mm-hmm. That-- I mean Levan was his brother and Tracy was I mean-- TH: Mm-hmm. DB: And he gave me the stories about his mom and dad and how they met and-- MH: Mm-hmm. DB: --what he could remember about early Bristow, but I didn' ; t have anything to do with the first recordings. MH: Right because they did those in the 70' ; s I think, early 80' ; s. DB: Yeah, now Betty (ph) but I don' ; t know-- I mean somebody could talk to Betty (ph)-- MH: Betty Kelly (ph)? DB: Kelly. Or Polly (ph) but I don' ; t know that anybody has. MH: Well see, Betty (ph) grew up here. TH: Polly grew up in Independence, Kansas. MH: Yeah. Betty (ph) would know. Betty (ph) would probably remember. She would probably be a good person if somebody hasn' ; t talked to-- DB: Is she a McMillian? MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Mm-hmm. MH: Yes. DB: That' ; s what I thought. MH: And see, its-- everything is so entwined like my dad' ; s name was William Mack Hughes. The Mack is from the McMillian name because the McMillians and my grandparents, the Hughes were very best friends. DB: See there' ; s the-- yeah. Everything is-- MH: And that' ; s why Betty (ph) and Levan ended up-- DB: By the dairy. MH: Yes, because it was her aunt and uncle that McMillian that were good friends with my grandparents. And my grandparents gave them five acres on the other side of the road that the Hughes owned and so McMillians built a cabin and I have a picture of all of them standing outside our cabin and they were-- it was a party invitation-- DB: Huh. MH: They were doing like part of the party at the Hughes cabin and then they were going across the road for dessert at the McMillian cabin. And like the Dokes are in that picture. You know, like Linda Trigalet' ; s ancestors and-- DB: Wow. MH: Yeah. But so that' ; s how-- yeah. Mm-hmm. But Betty (ph), Betty (ph) would know a lot. I would think. Somebody should talk to her now. She' ; s ninety something. DB: Mm-hmm. I' ; ll put her on the list. MH: And I' ; m sure you' ; ve talked to JC (ph)? DB: They won' ; t let us in the nursing home. MH: They won' ; t? DB: Hmm-mm. They tried. Georgia' ; s tried. And I mean, the longer you wait, you know. TH: How about Eddie-- DB: --the harder it gets to-- TH: How about Eddie Bishop? Has anybody talked to Eddie Bishop at the tabbouleh place? DB: Hmm-mm. TH: See his folks had a grocery store here for years. MH: See, the Bishop family would be a-- that would be-- you know there were a lot of Bishops in town. TH: But I have to brag about Bristow. I had a good upbringing. I had a good education from the high school, at least I felt like I did. I could' ; ve got a lot better one if I would' ; ve been mature enough to put out more effort. But I was a goof off my whole life. I wanted to have a good time and but gee, I' ; ve been all over the world hunting. Well not all over the world, but I' ; ve been-- what have I been. I' ; ve been-- DB: A good piece of it. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: Well, I' ; ve been to Canada twenty- three straight falls hunting. DB: Wow. TH: I went to Alaska thirteen straight years fishing. DB: Oh, Tom Miller used to make that trek. MH: Mm-hmm. DB: He' ; d go up ; I don' ; t know where-- north. TH: Tom went to the Yukon-- DB: Is that Canada? TH: Yeah. DB: Okay. (Chuckling) TH: He was up there, he was mining. He was gold mining. DB: I just know that-- TH: He and-- DB: --when I worked with Martha, he went up there every year. TH: He and Oscar. MH: Todd' ; s very fond of Tom. TH: Tom was-- he was a neighbor to my parents over on ninth street and I got to know Tom. DB: Mm-hmm. TH: And-- DB: He was a pretty good guy. MH: Mm-hmm. TH: He was a good guy. Tough son of a gun. MH: I never had him in school for some reason but-- DB: Well, and I didn' ; t go here but I met him afterword' ; s. MH: everybody did-- said he was-- DB: And I always liked him. MH: I had, you know--some of these teachers when I was in school had had my parents and I actually had the math teacher at the high school tell me, in class, " ; You' ; re certainly not the student your mother was. What happened to you?" ; or something. TH: Was that Ms. Gurley (ph). MH: Yes, ma' ; am. DB: (Laughter) MH: Yes, sir. DB: I' ; ve heard that name before too. MH: Yeah. TH: Yeah. MH: So I bet you' ; ve heard some interesting stories, Debbie. DB: Heard some different things. Heard some different things. I' ; m gonna turn this off unless you guys have more. TH: No. TH: I hope I haven' ; t hurt anybody' ; s feelings. DB: No, we' ; ll take care of that. End of interview. audio 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml OHP-2020-14_Herman_Todd_and_Mary2.xml
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Todd and Mary Herman
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In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family’s backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time.
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OHP-2020-14
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2021-04-09
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Ed Cadenhead
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman
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https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml
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Lebanon
Lebanese
1979
Deeb Slyman
Annie Slyman
Tex Slyman
Nellie Slyman
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5.4 June 21, 1979 OHP-0022 Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex OHP-0022 00:30:51 'Bristow Historical Society - Oral History Archive' Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Lebanon Lebanese 1979 Deeb Slyman Annie Slyman Tex Slyman Nellie Slyman Mrs. Deeb (Annie) Slyman, Mrs. Dave (Nellie) and Edmond (Tex) Slyman Ed Cadenhead MP3 1:|78(2)|99(3)|125(3)|146(9)|168(1)|191(4)|209(2)|226(4)|270(6)|298(2)|298(3)|357(11)|394(3)|428(13)|481(2)|543(3)|614(6)|655(10)|707(4)|744(2)|769(1)|796(13)|835(3)|876(2)|912(2)|940(9)|970(10)|993(14)|1016(5)|1045(2) 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0022 Deeb Family.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and First Days In America EC: Mrs.— TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman . EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I— EC: (Chuckling) No, I can’t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now—your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that’s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis . EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. Arabic ; Bristow ; Buisness ; Grocery Store ; Main Street ; Massachsetts Arrival In America ; Arrival In Bristow ; Mr Slyman's Grocery Store https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26873405/deeb-slyman-hoyek Mrs. Deeb Slyman's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26863670/ellis-slyman-hoyek Ellis Slyman Hoyek's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/26832677/edward-nahra-abraham Ed Abraham's Grave 334 Arrival In Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul—the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for—for four months. So— EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything—can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice’s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. The Slyman's arrival in Bristow and Annie's struggle getting in Alice Coby ; Bristow ; France ; Frank Mike ; Lebanon ; Paris ; Train Depot Annie Slyman stuck in Paris ; Arrival In Bristow 469 Lebanese Families In Bristow EC: What was the name of your village in— AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That’s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of—if not all the Lebanese families here—came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let’s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that’s the old-timers. Where did—where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. The Slyman's talk about other Lebanese families in Bristow and the surrounding areas Bdadoun ; Creek County ; Drumright ; Eliases ; Farhouds ; Fogaley ; Frank Forey ; Horany ; Howayek ; Juneau ; Khazin ; Labanon ; League of Americanized Syrians ; Marjayoun ; Marquettes ; Naifeh ; Oilton ; Oklahoma City ; Paul Gillismon ; Sam Beshara ; Shama ; Shamrock ; Tulsa ; Wabisaaiour Lebanese Families https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147624978/joe-abraham Joe Abraham's Grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/21579898/sam-beshara Sam Beshara's Grave 1059 Experiences In Bristow EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there’s more Greek Orthodox— EC: Oh really! NS: I don’t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um— I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S— H-O-M? The Sylman's experiences and stories from growing up and living in Bristow Americanized ; Anti-Catholic ; Anti-foreign ; Catholic ; Greek Orthodox ; Madellia Hamra ; Oil Boom ; Rainbow Nursing Home ; Uphus Abraham Experiences in Bristow ; Religion 1474 Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty— 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn’t hurt em’— it didn’t hurt em’ a bit. EC: What— NS: My husband was— EC: Yeah— NS: a— he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) Growing Up and Raising Children in Bristow Airplane ; Bristow ; Depew ; Fourth of July ; Great Depression ; Grocery Store ; League of Americanized Syrians Growing Up in Bristow ; Holidays in Bristow ; Raising Children In Bristow 35.834122, -96.394409 17 Nellie Slyman's Home This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Interviewer: Ed Cadenhead (EC) Interviewee: Mrs. Annie Slyman (AS), Edmond " ; Tex" ; Slyman (TS), Nellie Slyman (NS) Date of Interview: June 21, 1979 Location: Unknown Transcriber: Melissa Holderby and Macy Shields Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc. Length: 00:00-30:51 Abstract: This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb' ; s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow. Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.' ; s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. EC: Mrs.-- TS: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. EC: Mrs. Deeb Slyman. NS: And do you read Arabic? I-- EC: (Chuckling) No, I can' ; t read Arabic. What is this? June 21, 1979. Okay, I was going to ask, now--your husband came about 1900, is that right? AS: Yeah, that' ; s right. EC: And, so you just said his brother came first? TS: His brother came before him. EC: And his brother was? TS: Ellis. EC: Ellis Slyman. Right. TS: (Inaudible in background) EC: Right. Well what kind of business were they in when they first came here? AS: (Inaudible in background) EC: A general grocery store? Yeah. TS: When they first came, what did he do? AS: (in heavily accented English) When he first came this way he used to have a little place downtown, called it (indecipherable). He used to have little (indecipherable). He said he ran it for (indecipherable). NS: When he first came, he was down and out. And I think he had around twenty-five dollars in money. So he goes in--goes into this little stand down there on Fifth Street somewhere. Was it on Fifth Street, down there where the old store was? AS: Huh? NS: He started on Fifth Street? You know, where the-- AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Oh, he started on Main Street. AS: Yeah, on Main Street. NS: Oh! Well, I-- AS: He used to (Indecipherable) and he worked with Ed Abraham. Then he bought the place from Ed Abraham for fifteen dollars. NS: Fifteen dollars. Oh. EC: So, the real--the real reason he came was because of Abraham? NS: He came when he was real young. Why did Uncle Deeb come to this country? Because he couldn' ; t live--make a living over there? AS: When he come from (indecipherable) country? EC: Yeah. NS: Why? Do you know? AS: I don' ; t know him that time. I don' ; t know. NS: Oh, you don' ; t know why, he just--they were young--the way I understand, they were young, adventuresome guys. They wanted to come to this world. And they came, and he lived in Massachusetts for a bunch of years picking cranberries. ' ; Cause he said, We used to go out there and pick cranberries and we didn' ; t even have anything to keep our feet warm. We' ; d put gunny sacks and paper sacks on our feet to keep us warm. These are stories I' ; ve heard from them. EC: Sure, sure. NS: And then, when they did come to this part of Oklahoma--I don' ; t know what made ' ; em come to this part of Oklahoma. But--you know, she' ; s talking about this fifteen-dollar business he started out with: he wanted the--the workers around there wanted to eat. So he' ; d get up and he' ; d make a pot of stew or soup. Every day he' ; d make a pot, and they' ; d come in and eat with the family. He started a little business like that. And as far as I know, he went in from that into what they called a mercantile business, with Mike--or Frank Mike (ph). And they had a nice--one of the best stores in town then. With Frank Mike (ph). But I don' ; t know of the years. See, this is all before my day. EC: Yeah, sure. NS: All I know is historical, you know. EC: Well-- NS: And-- EC: Yeah, go ahead. NS: And they run this--these stores. And of course, you know, it was like--you buy now and pay when the cotton come in, you know. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: That' ; s the way it was up until--I' ; m gonna say in--let me see. After he got through with Frank Mike (ph), he went into a business by himself down on Fifth Street. And he was still catering to the farmer then. And-- TS: To the Indians and the farmers-- NS: Well, Indian--well, anyway all these people that can' ; t buy--can' ; t pay but once or twice a year, you know. TS: Mmm-hmm. NS: And he would give them credit for the whole year--big families come in, buy groceries. And he had dry goods, too. Like overalls and you know--whatever they used TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: --gloves and stuff that they used--the farmers would use. And they' ; d come and pay him once or twice a year. There' ; s one thing about Mr. Slyman that he didn' ; t do but other business people here in town did--he did not foreclose on anybody. He did not take anybody' ; s cow away from them, he did not take anybody' ; s horse away from them because they couldn' ; t pay their bill. He just--Okay, son, you do the best you can and pay me when you can. Of course, when he finally did finish his business, he had enough money--if he had the cash he could' ; ve built half of Bristow. But he did not fore--he wasn' ; t--he didn' ; t foreclose on anybody. EC: When did you come to Bristow? AS: Nineteen twenty-four. EC: Nineteen twenty-four. AS: Yes. EC: You came from Lebanon? AS: Yeah, Lebanon, yes. EC: Uh-huh (in agreement). AS: (Inaudible.) citizen and the law changed. So they told him, the consul--the American consul told him (inaudible). He never asked him why. And the consul, he says he know why. So, we come and we slept in Paris for--for four months. So-- EC: What do you remember about your first days in Bristow? Anything--can you remember the first time you saw Bristow? AS: Yes. First time I saw Bristow, yes. On my way to Bristow from (indecipherable), we make the (indecipherable) and the train. And we came and Frank Mike and Alice Coby (ph) and Alice' ; s landlady. They meet us in the, in the train. At the depot. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: And I come home that night. On twenty-six of September. EC: Uh-huh! NS: She was stranded in Paris for--how long did you have to stay in Paris when you--coming from--you had to stay four months in Paris. Because she wasn' ; t American citizen and he wasn' ; t, either. And they kept her in Paris. And he came on to Bristow. AS: (Inaudible in background.) So we brought--so, Slyman, he had a cousin in our country, he was like (indecipherable). So one time Slyman said--we used to write letters to the our country to see if we can come. So (indecipherable), he sent word to the American consul in Beirut. And told him that if he can permit me to come. The consul in Beirut, he wrote to the consul in France-- in Paris. So they let me come. EC: What was the name of your village in-- AS: Hmm? EC: What was the name of the village in Lebanon? NS: Why, his village was Bdadoun. B-D-A-D-O-U-N. That' ; s where he came from, Mr. Slyman. She came from Juneau. J-U-N-E-A-U. EC: Now, am I correct that most of--if not all the Lebanese families here--came from those two villages? AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: Well, let' ; s see, the old timers? AS: (Inaudible in background.) EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: I see. No, that' ; s the old-timers. Where did--where did Joe Abraham come from, Annie? What part of Lebanon? AS: Bdadoun. NS: He came from Bdadoun, too? AS: Bdadoun. NS: Joe? AS: Joe Abraham and Ed Abraham. NS: Mmm-hmm. AS: --family-- TS: Oh, they' ; re all from-- AS: And the Eliases. They' ; re all from Bdadoun. TS: Well, (inaudible). AS: (Indecipherable.) TS: (Indecipherable.) AS: Bdadoun. EC: I--you probably can answer this, I don' ; t know. It' ; s not unusual, of course, for a number of people from--immigrating to this country to come to one place because they have friends or relatives, you know. But is it unusual in Oklahoma to find this many Lebanese families in one place? Or are you aware of other places in the state where there are-- NS: I mean, this time, Oklahoma don' ; t have anything compared to the east. EC: Right. But what about Oklahoma, though? Are there other centers-- NS: Oh, other? Oh--in Oklahoma--in Oklahoma City there' ; s a big bunch of Lebanese. EC: Oh, there are? NS: In fact, they--part of ' ; em' ; s lived here in Bristow. EC: Well, but they--some of them came from Bristow. Some of the ones in Tulsa came from Bristow. NS: Yeah. Uh-huh (agreeing). They came--they (indecipherable). But this wa--this--into that like--they started the--these old timers started first on cotton. EC: Mmm-hmm. AS: (Inaudible in background.) NS: (Inaudible in background) --my husband came to Creek County. But talk about--they came, then they started speculating, these--they took chances. They couldn' ; t write their own name. Joe Abraham was a millionaire--he died as a millionaire--but he could not write his name. He has X' ; s on there. Deeb--that' ; s her husband--my husband' ; s uncle. He could write his name--I couldn' ; t find anything with his signature on it around here, but there is some writing in there, but it' ; s all in Arabic. He could barely write his name. He actually--before he died--he was ninety-some years old before he died--he got to where he could read the newspaper. And he' ; d negotiate all his--he did all his bookwork himself. No--no bookkeepers. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And business. And--but they' ; re all self-educated, on their own. They didn' ; t none of them go to school. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: Not even in Lebanon, I think. Now I don' ; t know about Joe Abraham, if he had any Leban--any education from there. He came awful young. Joe and--well that was Herb. Herb could tell you more about his dad. EC: Well, I--I was still kind of wonder--why they' ; re-- NS: Why, why they chose this part-- EC: Why--or is that unusual? Are there other communities in the state now-- NS: No.EC: Where you can find-- NS: No, no-- TS: It seems like one at a time they followed each other-- EC: Right. TS: And just, I think, their philosophy was just--this is kind of a new territory, territory -(indecipherable), and they did a lot of--lot of trading with the Indians and the people around here. And they were--most of the tradition of the Lebanese people then was very business-minded. EC: Yeah. TS: I mean, they didn' ; t believe in an eight-hour day, they believed in eighteen-hour-a-day, work day. And this is what the one thing that they succeeded in was hard work. And their--their enjoyment was getting with each other. EC: Sure. TS: And having a--reminiscing the old--the old country more than anything. EC: Yeah. TS: That was their entertainment. NS: They formed what they called the League of Americanized Syrians there. That was--that was just some organization like Rotary Club or-- TS: Here in Bristow. NS: They had--yeah, it was in Bristow. And of course the League of Americanized Syrians would come from Drumright. Would come from Oklahoma City. They would come from Oilton. And Shamrock. Now, see--there was some Lebanese (indecipherable). That I know of. Of course, most of the Lebanese came in--they were mostly mercantile people. Now, the ones in Drumright--they had what you' ; d call a dry goods store. The (indecipherable), they call ' ; em. TS: (Inaudible in background) NS: There used to be Farhouds (ph). There used to be Marquettes (ph). I could--now these are all from Drumright. I' ; m from Drumright. EC: Oh, are you? NS: I was born in Pennsylvania but I was raised in--reared in Drumright. EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: And then-- EC: Well, now--help me with Lebanese names. The name Fogaley is-- NS: I came from the Fogaley family. My father-- EC: But that' ; s more like a--a clan? NS: Oh, oh--okay. EC: Yeah. NS: Fogaley is like this one family back there when in, maybe the 1500s. A whole family of boys named Fogaley. And they all went out, you know, and had their own families. Now that is what we call the clan of the family--like the Naifeh family-- EC: Right. NS: --I don' ; t know if you' ; re heard of the Naifeh family-- EC: Yes, I know. Yes. NS: Okay. Now that' ; s where the Fogaley' ; s from. But here' ; s how we lost our names is every time a child is born, they were named by their father' ; s first name. My father' ; s name was Henry Joseph. Now, he was Henry Joseph and his father' ; s name was Habib Fogaley (ph), see. So that goes back, right now--I lost Fogaley --the situation, by--I was raised a Joseph. EC: Now, the Slymans were not Fogaley. NS: Slymans were Howayek. H-O-W--how do you spell it? H-O-W-Y-E-K. Y-E-- TS: Y-E. NS: Y-E. TS: I just repeat it how they told me to spell it, so I don' ; t know if it' ; s H-O-Y-E-K. NS: H-O-Y-E-K. TS: And I don' ; t know if I made it right or not. NS: Mm-hmm. EC: Well-- NS: And that' ; s (indecipherable). TS: See, what I understood is the name Slyman came-- NS: From the (indecipherable) TS: From--was Uncle Deeb' ; s dad' ; s name. And our name was-- EC: Okay-- TS: And he put down Deeb Slyman when he came into the country as his name. EC: Okay. NS: And then--then he always added Howayek. Now, when he wrote papers for the-- TS: When he wrote papers to the old country, he always used the Deeb Slyman Howayek, okay. EC: So, at one point I was told, and maybe you know something different--there were twenty-seven Lebanese families in Bristow. TS: Oh, I (indecipherable) AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Now? EC: No at some point. TS: At one time? EC: Yeah, but most of those were then, Fogaley' ; s. NS: Fogaley clan! EC: Yeah. Most of them-- NS: We have the--we have the Feghalis and Slymans and then what--Fogaley' ; s and Slymans, now they call it Feghalis--some go by Feghali, some go by Fogaley. The real--the first was F-O-G-A-L-E-Y. The Fogaley family. And that' ; s what--see, my father was a Fogaley. EC: Right. NS: And--Deeb was not a Fogaley. He was a Howayek. EC: Yeah. NS: And I don' ; t know-- TS: Howayek, yeah. The Howayek name in the old country was a very dominant name. EC: Right. TS: It was a very strong name. AS: Howayek--(indecipherable) NS: Patriarch. TS: It was--yeah. Well Khazin (ph) Annie was a Khazin (ph). Annie was-- NS: Political. TS: She was of a more of a political family-- from a political family-- the Khazin family. EC: Right, I see. TS: The Howayek name and family was a-- is a large family. NS: They had a (Inaudible) was well known was because they had a patriarch-- Howayek (Inaudible). EC: Now then-- let' ; s see. (Inaudible talking in the background) AS: (Indecipherable) EC: The Shamas' ; s are folks? NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks. EC: They' ; re what? AS: They' ; re from Bdadoun. NS: The Shamas' ; s are mom' ; s folks (inaudible). TS: (Indecipherable) NS: From another part in Lebanon like-- AS: (Inaudible). EC: The Eliases? AS: The Eliase' ; s are from Bdadoun. EC: They' ; re-- NS: They' ; re Fogaley family and they come from Leban. EC: Right-- and then the (Indecipherable) came later. NS: (Indecipherable) I don' ; t know where they' ; re from. EC: From--they' ; re from-- AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph)? AS: From Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. AS: They' ; re from Wabisaaiour (ph). NS: Wabisaaiour (ph) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm, W-A-B-I-S-A-A-I-O-U-R-- Wabisaaiour (ph)-- EC: Alright. NS: That' ; s where my daddy' ; s from. EC: Then there were the-- I' ; m trying to think of some of the others families here that I' ; ve-- NS: Oh well-- EC: Beshara' ; sNS: Oh, Sam Beshara! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Sam Beshara. AS: (Indecipherable) NS: Sam Beshara from-- you remember? AS: Sam Beshara and (Indecipherable) Beshara-- NS: (Indecipherable) Beshara They' ; re from Wabi (ph) too? AS: Mmm-hmm. EC: Okay-- and hmm-- AS: (Inaudible) NS: Yeah, I know. There' ; s two I' ; m trying to think of some more. EC: You remember some of those other things? NS: Old timers (Inaudible) AS: (Inaudible) NS: Mmm-hmm. Okay you got anything on the Horany' ; s yet? EC: No. NS: The Horany' ; s were Marjayoun. Weren' ; t they? Horany' ; s! AS: Horany' ; s? NS: Yeah. AS: From Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. AS: (Inaudible). EC: Now what about, Forey (ph)? NS: Umm Annie, how about Frank Forey (ph)? AS: Frank Forey (ph) is from Bdadoun. NS: He' ; s from Bdadoun? See Frank Forey (ph) would be a cousin-- umm an uncle to Paul Gillismon (ph). Have you talked to Paul Gillismon? (ph) EC: No, I have not. NS: He may not give you too much history. No one will give you more about them. See they' ; re related. EC: (Indaudible) NS: Uh-huh. Paul Gillismon' ; s (ph) mother was Joe Abraham' ; s sister. EC: Okay-- Yeah. NS: Now, let' ; s see. I was trying to think of who else. EC: I' ; m trying to think of some of the other names that might-- NS: Me too. AS: (Inaudible) EC: Oh yes! AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh! AS: And then-- when the consul (Indecipherable) and he told the consul when you were away from Lebanon we used to make Lebanon women work, but when you come to Lebanon you play to (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) Most of the Lebanese were and are Catholic. Is that correct? (Everyone talking at once) TS: Greek Orthodox. NS: Greek Orthodox. EC: Or well yeah, Greek Orthodox, but here they would tend to be Catholic. NS: Well, there' ; s more Greek Orthodox-- EC: Oh really! NS: I don' ; t know why. They built a huge Greek Orthodox church in Oklahoma City and they just built one here. EC: Oh, I see. NS: Uh but um-- I was gonna say if you can make contact with Homsey. H-O-M-S-- H-O-M? TS: H-O-M-S-E-Y. NS: Uh-Huh, they have the-- TS: AMC NS: AMC TS: You know that-- it is called AM-- American EC: Yeah. TS: It used to be called American (Inaudible) but its AMC in Oklahoma City. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: And they have a lot of Bristow-- TS: And they have a lot of Bristow (Indecipherable)--they moved from Bristow to Oklahoma City. EC: Oh, I see. TS: They' ; re very, very special people there. They employed four hundred people in that place. EC: Let' ; s see is the name Hamra-- TS: Hamra. NS: Ok, you' ; re gonna get more information on the Hamra' ; s? EC: Well I just kind of fit them in to this whole-- NS: Yeah I' ; ll tell ya--Madellia Hamra, right now that' ; s the woman-- the daughter. Is running the (Indecipherable) Rainbow Nursing Home, down-- you know. EC: Right, that' ; s where I was headed. NS: Uh huh. EC: Farha? NS: Yeah, the Farha' ; s are-- they' ; re Greek Orthodox from Marjayoun. They came from Marjayoun. TS: Where did the Farha' ; s-- where did the Farha' ; s come from? AS: From (Indecipherable) NS: Annie! The Farha' ; s come from Wabi? AS: The Farha' ; s were from Marjayoun. NS: That' ; s what I thought. AS: (Indecipherable) from Marjayoun. NS: Yeah. EC: Okay. NS: Farha' ; s. EC: Okay, tell me some of your experiences in Bristow. What was life like for you after you came here. AS: Well I (Indecipherable) we don' ; t have it back then (Indecipherable). TS: (Inaudible discussion in background) NS: She had to learn English too. AS: I don' ; t know how to spoke English. EC: Right. AS: They used to (Indecipherable) to ask me something. Do you know English? EC: Mmm-hmm. Well did you work in the store also? AS: No sir. (Indecipherable) then my house work wouldn' ; t get done. EC: Now the oil boom was really over by the time you came here. AS: Yeah. (Indecipherable) 19:55- 20:11- Inaudible NS: Uphus Abraham (ph)? Uphus Abraham (ph)? AS: No. (Indecipherable) NS: Oh! (Indecipherable) Slyman? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Uncle Deeb' ; s? AS: (Inaudible) NS: Oh. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well that-- I don' ; t know anything about that. AS: (Inaudible) NS: Well I' ; ve got a funny story of what happened to Mrs. Horany that' ; s Helen Shamas' ; s (ph) aunt. She came to this-- you know, territory here and she wanted-- wanted a room, just a one room to sleep in. And that was the relation with his dad' ; s sister. Whoever had the house was looking for a bedroom you know and everywhere she goes, in her best English asked for a place to sleep and they would say no room and room in Arabic means Greek Orthodox and she (Indecipherable) EC: (Laughter) NS: She thought they were telling her that they don' ; t-- that they don' ; t want no Greek Orthodox. EC: I see. NS: (Laughter) that was so funny. EC: In that connection and I' ; m sure this is not an easy kind of a question to answer but from what you have heard or experienced, how much anti-foreign feeling was there in Bristow or anti-Catholic feeling which of course was present all over the country in the 20' ; s-- NS: Well in Drumright when I grew up in school-- EC: Alright-- NS: They isolated us, they didn' ; t like-- they did not like Catholics. Especially if you let em' ; know you' ; re foreign. In school it was very, very hard to make-- EC: Was that true in Bristow as far as you know? NS: Well I-- it wasn' ; t when my kids growing up. Was it Edmond, did you ever hear of that? TS: It wasn' ; t so much so whenever I went to school but I know it was (Indecipherable) EC: Yeah. TS: In the older people that were-- EC: Right. TS: -- foreign-- EC: It' ; s hard to pin down whether this was anti-foreign or anti-Catholic. That' ; s what I' ; m wondering. NS: (Inaudible) TS: That was a real question for a long time. Everyone thought that it was anti-Catholic but there were you know other Catholics in town besides Lebanese people. EC: Right. TS: And so of course we felt like it was a lot of anti-foreign also now one of the reasons was normal human-- EC: Sure, sure. TS: I think-- EC: It wouldn' ; t be unusual. TS: No huh-uh, because of the fact of outsiders coming in (Indecipherable) and they were-- the Lebanese people really did cling together. In fact, they still do to a point. They can-- we have an organization in Tulsa still. It' ; s not as, you know it' ; s not like it was-- very secretive and no one else could get into it, but the Lebanese people had a tendency to stay together because they believed in unity. They believed in-- in trying to work together. Now this was -- I would say this would be the philosophy of the older Lebanese. Now I' ; m talking about my aunt and they had-- EC: Right. TS: -- progressed and you know, you become more Americanized. EC: Yeah-- TS: They changed-- EC: Are you aware-- or have you heard from your aunt or other relatives whether or not any of this carried over into business? For example, did Lebanese families have any more trouble borrowing money, let' ; s say-- at the bank. NS: Oh. TS: No, no-- NS: No, not-- TS: --I don' ; t feel like that. I don' ; t think so. I felt like that there were times that because they were very frugal with their dollars there were times that as time progressed they realized that the Lebanese people were-- they were business minded people-- EC: Right TS: --And this has been kind of a national thing from the old area and I search the web for the whole area-- EC: Sure. TS: --they' ; re very business minded and I think that over a period of years-- I think they had to change-- EC: Right. TS: -- in fact I think there were times (Inaudible) NS: (Inaudible) TS: And it became a-- they became a-- they gained a lot of confidence. EC: Yeah. NS: They had a very good relationship with the banks at that time. I mean because his Uncle Bill-- he' ; s eighty and he built a good relationship. In fact, I think our kids are being helped. Our own-- my generation, my boys are being helped and my children from his reputation when he was there. You know, and the banks and anywhere. EC: When did you come to Bristow? NS: In thirty-- 1933. (Laughter) EC: 1933. NS: Uh-huh. EC: The depression was going on then. NS: Oh yeah, I raised six kids (indecipherable) the depression. They know it, I didn' ; t hurt em' ; -- it didn' ; t hurt em' ; a bit. EC: What-- NS: My husband was-- EC: Yeah-- NS: a-- he was a butcher in a grocery store and working with (Indecipherable) TS: (Inaudible) NS: (Indecipherable) thirty-five dollars a week and we raised six children. By being very economical and all six-- all four-- the four boys helped down there in the grocery store. If nothing else, just to keep them off the streets. They' ; d dust cans and be sitting in the store helping you know. For maybe a quarter a day or something like that. (Laughter) And I don' ; t know whether-- I don' ; t think it hurt them, as far as I know I don' ; t. Maybe they feel like they got hurt but they didn' ; t have all the luxuries. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. They didn' ; t miss what they didn' ; t have. EC: Right. NS: They had their own-- they wanted their own ballgame and ballfield. They formed it themselves, no organize. We didn' ; t have any organize play like they have now. EC: What about special occasions? Did they still have something like Fourth of July picnics and-- NS: Yes. EC: -- parades or-- NS: Uh-Huh EC: --did the circus still come in those days? NS: We didn' ; t have those but we would have a special occasion on the holidays. My own personal family-- let' ; s say. I came from a family of eight brothers and sisters and we managed once or twice a year to get together and there is usually about fifty or sixty of us of immediate family-- that means children and grandchildren, you know-- EC: Mmm-hmm. NS: --In-laws and outlaws and all that. We all have that, and I know-- I was reading about the Naifehs have that too. They call it you know like a convention or something. We don' ; t have-- we plan it at holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving and Easter. We get together-- covered dish dinners and be together. Then of course-- I don' ; t-- I don' ; t know if there' ; s anything organized anymore like that as far as-- EC: I was thinking more-- NS: These oh like the League of Americanized Syrians, they don' ; t have that anymore. EC: I was really thinking of Bristow itself. NS: Of Bristow itself-- EC: Did the city have a Fourth of July-- NS: No we don' ; t have enough-- EC: --picnics and stuff when you came here-- NS: We don' ; t have enough people here anymore to do anything like that. They did at one time we' ; d just go to the artesian wells when I was about fourteen, twelve, ten, eleven years old. See I don' ; t know where the artesian wells-- between here and Depew all I know. (Indecipherable) Best spring water ever came out of it and this whole-- the League of Americanized Syrians would go over there and oh I mean we were about like a hundred of em' ; . Come from all the surrounding areas and spent the whole day on Fourth of July. But that was in the past, I just wanted you to know. EC: What has been some of the things that you remember that were really interesting or funny to you. What' ; s happened to you in Bristow? Anything special that you can think of? AS: No sir. NS: Annie! Well, tell him about the time you flew on the airplane. AS: Huh? NS: Tell him about the airplane! You tell it to me a hundred times. EC: Tell me-- NS: You remember when you flew on the airplane? AS: Yes, we flew the airplane. First thing I see is the (Indecipherable) we was in Arkansas and they told me that I could fly. He said (Indecipherable) would you wanna fly. First time I flew was in 1920-- 1950. I went (Indecipherable) then I come back here. I went to our country with my husband and you see he did not want to go on the airplane. He wanted the ship. He said he didn' ; t want to die. I told him if you go on the jet you will die and if you go on the ship you will die, if you are on the airplane too. (Laughter) AS: I told him if you' ; re on the airplane and you die you don' ; t know it. But if you' ; re in the ship and you the big ship sunk and you go under the water and come up (indecipherable) come to the rescue. EC: Right. AS: And he never flew in the airplane but when we start to come back his ship was on (Indecipherable). We had to come on the airplane. He enjoyed very much. In 1960 we went another trip, me and him. We stayed out there for six months and come back. NS: Tell the one about the (Indecipherable) Oh, look at that eggplant up there! EC: (Laughter) NS: And that lady laughed and said that' ; s not eggplant, that' ; s an airplane. You know she said-- she said it wrong. I wanted her to tell that one. She always used to tell me about it all the time. Called, eggplant (Laughter). EC: Right. NS: About the eggplant! (Laughter) AS: I used-- we used to have neighbors living in the attic. We had to move them to the garage. They used to live upstairs. His wife and (Indecipherable) were spoken to me and I heard that there' ; s some airplane (Indecipherable) because I told her, " ; Some eggplant passed" ; she laughed. She said " ; That' ; s not eggplant that' ; s a vegetable you eat." ; EC: Laughter AS: Airplane is when you fly on it. EC: Right. AS: And she used to correct me when I spoke English, her and her husband. EC: I see. AS: And (Indecipherable) used to live next to (Indecipherable) our house. EC: Mmm-hmm. What are some of the oldest buildings in Bristow that you remember? What are-- are there some still around? Buildings or houses that were here when you came? NS: Our house from the 1900s. (Inaudible talking in the background) EC: Your house? This is--who built it? NS: Well he used to be the mayor but I don' ; t remember. I don' ; t know if-- you know who knows? Who built it. (Indecipherable) EC: Okay. NS: She knows who built the house. EC: And that' ; s-- what' ; s the address of it? NS: My house? EC: Yeah. NS: 229 West seventh. EC: 229 West seventh. NS: Uh-huh. EC: Okay. NS: But she came over the other day and told me that her happiest days were in that house. She grew up as a teenager and they would go over there and there was some teenage girls-- EC: Oh, Uh-huh. NS: And they' ; d-- and she' ; d-- and I think she-- and if I remember I think she said she took music lessons-- EC: Yeah. NS: --in that house. EC: Mmm-hmm NS: It was built I think by one of the first mayors, but I don' ; t know the name. See that' ; s one thing I don' ; t know. End of interview audio The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.’s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & ; Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc. The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account. To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible. 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/viewer.php?cachefile=OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml OHP-0022_Slyman,_Deeb_Family.xml
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Slyman Family- Mrs. Deeb, Mrs. Dave and Tex
Description
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This 1979 interview discussing Deeb Slyman includes his wife Annie, nephew Tex (Edmond) Slyman and niece. They share about the journey from Lebanon and their settlement in Bristow. They discussed Deeb’s days in business, the acceptance of foreign people in town, and the many different Lebanese families that settled in Bristow.
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OHP-0022
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1979-06-21
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audio
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Family Histories
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Oral History
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Oral accounts of various family histories
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Bristow Historical Society, oral history collection
Oral History
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Interviewer
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Regan Siler
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sharon VanOrsdol
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6.0 October 30, 2025 OHP-0077 Sharon VanOrsdol OHP-0077 00:54:01 Bristow Historical Society, Inc. bristowhistory Sharon VanOrsdol Regan Siler 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/interviews/OHP-0077 VanOrsdol, Sharon.mp4 Other video 0 Birth Regan Siler 00:00
 ; This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is October 30, 2025 and I'm here with Sharon VanOrsdol at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and what it's like living and working in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 00:24
 ; Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 00:27
 ; Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 00:30
 ; Yes, you do.
 ; Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol was born on July 9, 1949. She was born at her family's home in Gypsy, Oklahoma. Bristow Historical Society ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Bristow Library Annex ; Gypsy (Okla.) Birth 0 44 Parents Regan Siler 00:44
 ; At home. Okay, well, let's start by talking about your family. Can you tell me what your parents full names are?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 00:53
 ; My dad's name is Jesse Henry, and my mom's name was Winnie McGuire. She had no middle name. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 01:01
 ; No middle name, okay? And I have your dad's birthday as 3/24/1909 with date of death, 11/2/1977.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 01:14
 ; That's correct.
 ; Sharon's father was Jesse Henry Brown. Her mother was Winnie McGuire Brown. Her mother had no middle name. Jesse Henry Brown ; Winnie McGuire Brown Parents 0 97 Siblings Regan Siler 01:37
 ; Yes, yeah, because Rachel would bring me some sometimes. Okay. Do you have any siblings? 
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 01:43
 ; I do. I have seven siblings. Betty Louise [Brown] was born and only lived a couple of months. And then my brother, Henry, Henry Oscar Brown, Wilma Irene Brown Duke, Margaret Mae Ailey or Brown Ailey, Fredia Christine Brown Fowler, Shirley Faye Brown, she never married, myself-Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol and my youngest sister, Earlene Marie Brown Bostick. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 02:26
 ; I don't guess I realized you had that many siblings. Man, you had a big family.
 ; Sharon was born into a large family. She had seven siblings. Sadly, only Sharon and two other siblings are still living. Betty Louise Brown ; Henry Oscar Brown ; Wilma Irene Brown Duke ; Margaret Mae Brown Ailey ; Fredia Christine Brown Fowler ; Shirley Faye Brown ; Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol ; Earlene Marie Brown Bostick Siblings 0 154 Home Regan Siler 02:34
 ; Three left. Okay, so where did you live growing up, and did you have family living nearby you growing up?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 02:43
 ; Actually, I've lived in the Gypsy area all my life. We lived eight miles south of Bristow, in the Gypsy area. I was born there, raised there. My dad drove a bus there for a while, and then he worked for the county for several years. My mom was always a housewife. And of course, with that many kids, you stay busy.
 ; Sharon has always lived in the Gypsy area. Growing up, her family lived eight miles south of Bristow. Her father drove a bus, and then later worked for the county. Sharon's mother was a housewife and stayed busy with all of the children. Her mother also quilted. Jesse Henry Brown ; Winnie McGuire Brown ; Gypsy (Okla.) ; Missouri ; Kellyville (Okla.) Home 0 266 School Regan Siler 04:26
 ; In Missouri? Okay, okay. Well, can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 04:35
 ; I attended Gypsy School. At that time, it was K through eighth. My sisters and brother, actually, or part of them, graduated from Gypsy School when it was first through twelfth. Actually, it wasn't K. They didn't have Kindergarten at the time, so it was first through eighth. So, I went the first eight years there at Gypsy and then I transferred to Depew. At that time, we had an option of going to Depew or going to Bristow, and I chose to go to Depew. I graduated from Depew High School.
 ; Sharon attended Gypsy School from the first through eighth grade. She then transferred to Depew and graduated from there in 1967. Sharon loved school. She remembers her first grade teacher, Mrs. Burton. She lived by the school and would take them to her house for treats. Bristow Public Schools (Bristow, Okla.) ; Gypsy Public Schools (Gypsy, Okla.) ; Depew Public Schools (Depew, Oklahoma) ; Mrs. Burton School 0 377 Mealtimes Regan Siler 06:17
 ; Right, okay. Well, tell me about what meal times were like in your family. Did everyone like get together every evening for dinner and sit down at the table and eat?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 06:29
 ; We did. Everybody pretty much had their meals. They had their breakfast together. And of course, everybody was going about their daily routines at lunchtime. And then we were all home for supper, that's correct. And we didn't go out and eat. It was you ate what you got, you ate what was on the table, and you enjoyed it.
 ; Sharon and her family ate dinner together every night. They even had breakfast together most days. She says they did not go out to eat and that you ate what was on the table. Sharon says that all of the children were taught how to cook and clean. She remembers chocolate gravy being a favorite for breakfast. Winnie McGuire Brown Mealtimes 0 483 Community Activities Regan Siler 08:03
 ; Well, thinking back to town life and growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities as a young person? I know a lot of people have talked about like Western Heritage Days, day camp, county fair, stuff like that. Do you have any particular memories growing up that you enjoyed doing in Bristow?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 08:25
 ; Do you want growing up or after I after I got in town and started working? Actually, we didn't really get to participate in things growing up. We lived eight miles south of town, and, you know, we just did what we did around home. We didn't get to go into town for a lot of activities or get involved.
 ; Sharon and her family did not participate in very many community activities, because they lived so far out of Bristow. The highlight of their Saturdays was coming to town. Her parents would park their car at the depot. Sharon and her siblings would play under the water tower while their parents ran their errands. Western Heritage Days ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Jesse Henry Brown ; Winnie McGuire Brown ; Bristow Train Depot Community Activities 0 600 Bristow Businesses Regan Siler 10:00
 ; Yeah, okay. Do you remember what some of the biggest or most popular businesses were growing up around town, or something that maybe stuck out in your memory as a youngster?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 10:11
 ; Yeah, Henderson's Furniture Store, I remember that. M & ; P Grocery Store, I think, and let's see Shamas [Shamas Dry Goods], Strong's.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 10:31
 ; A lot of those, I've heard people talk about.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 10:34
 ; I was trying to think of the dress shops that were there. There actually was a dress shop, I can't remember what the name of that was.
 ; Sharon remembers some of the businesses in Bristow from her childhood, M& ; P Grocery Store, Shamas Dry Goods and Strong's. Sharon's mother made most of their clothes, but they did shop for shoes at Strong's. M& ; P Grocery Store ; Shamas Dry Goods ; Strong's ; T& ; J ; Frosty Freeze Businesses ; Bristow (Okla.) 0 721 Car Regan Siler 12:01
 ; Didn't nescessarily. Well, do you remember your first car?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 12:08
 ; I remember it was, I think it was a Chevy. I got it right after I graduated. It was an older Chevy. I don't remember.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 12:20
 ; So was it just your car? Or did you have to share?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 12:23
 ; No, that one was just mine. And like I said, I got it after I graduated, because I was starting a job. And I needed a way to get to work. And, honestly, I don't really remember my sisters' cars as they were going up, or my brother. I know my sisters attended a business college. And in Tulsa, Fredia and Margaret did Draughon's School of Business. That's where they went. But I honestly can't tell you a whole lot about their vehicles. I was just busy growing up.
 ; Sharon's first car was a Chevy. She got it after high school. She was starting a job and needed it to get to and from work. Chevrolet automobile ; Tulsa (Okla.) ; Fredia Christine Brown Fowler ; Margaret Mae Brown Ailey ; Draughon's School of Business Car 0 778 Childhood Home Regan Siler 12:58
 ; Or just happy to be able to get around. Well, tell me about the house that you grew up in. What was it like?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 13:07
 ; It was a little, two-story house. It set there eight miles south and a quarter of a mile back, west, north I guess. Actually, there's a house sitting there now that actually burned right after I got married. It burned, so my mom and dad built another little house in the same location. But you can imagine we were two in a bed, and you know all there and happy as a lark.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 13:41
 ; Right. So did you as far as entertainment at home, I'm guessing you guys spent most of your time outdoors?
 ; Sharon's childhood home was a little, two-story house. Sharon said it was two in a bed while she was growing up. The house burned after Sharon was married, and her parents built another house in the same location. Jesse Henry Brown ; Winnie McGuire Brown Childhood Home 0 821 Entertainment Regan Siler 13:41
 ; Right. So did you as far as entertainment at home, I'm guessing you guys spent most of your time outdoors?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 13:48
 ; We did. They did get a TV later on. I don't remember how old, but we didn't have one when we were really young. We had one a little later. But we went outside, we made mud pies, we made forts in the woods, and we rode bikes. And you know, we entertained ourselves. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 14:13
 ; Right.
 ; Sharon and her siblings spent most of their free time outdoors. They made mud pies, forts in the woods, and they rode their bikes. Sharon says that they did get a television later on. Her father loved watching wrestling shows. Television ; Jesse Henry Brown Entertainment 0 915 Childhood Dreams Regan Siler 15:15
 ; Okay. Well, as a child do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 15:24
 ; You know, as a child, we never really thought about that. Or I never really thought about that, you know.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 15:32
 ; You were just busy being a kid.
 ; Sharon says as a child that she did not really think about a career other than being a housewife. She says she was busy being kid. She was playing outside and playing school and church with her siblings. Dreams Childhood Dreams 0 953 Hosting Regan Siler 15:53
 ; Right, right. So being there where you grew up, did your dad farm or anything? Did you have farm chores and stuff to do?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 16:03
 ; We didn't really have a farm. We had a few cows, and they always raised a big garden, and we had a horse. We'd ride the horse occasionally, and we didn't do that a whole lot. But I do remember almost every Sunday, we would get together with my aunt and uncle, who is my mom's brother, and my dad's sister. Because mom and dad married brothers and sisters, so they were actually our double cousins. And either we would go there on Sunday, or they would come to our house, the whole family. And I remember, Uncle Walter and Aunt Tressie (sp), they had horses. And we would get out there and ride horses or donkeys, play croquet, badminton, things like that. But we just always were a family like that, we had people over. Mom would always have the preacher over, or somebody for lunch. And I actually had a cousin that moved in with us, Albert Blythe. He moved in with us when he was a teenager. Because his parents, which was my dad's folks, my dad's brother was moving to California. And Albert didn't want to go, so he came and lived with us. And he actually met his wife down the hill, Ruby Blythe, Ruby Morris, while he was living there with us. So you know, we were just family. We just had fun.
 ; Sharon and her family did not have a farm, but they did have a few cows, a horse and a big garden. They would visit with Sharon's aunt and uncle almost every Sunday. They would ride horses, play croquet, and play badminton. Sharon's mother was always inviting people over for lunch. Sharon even had a cousin (Albert Blythe) that moved in with their family. Albert Blythe ; Ruby Morris Blythe ; California ; Walter Brown ; Tressie Brown Hosting 0 1085 Church Regan Siler 18:05
 ; And church was big in your life?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 18:08
 ; It was very big, very present in our life. Yes, we were raised in church. We were raised in the Gypsy Holiness Church.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:16
 ; Now was it at the same location that it is now?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 18:19
 ; Across the road.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:20
 ; Across the road? Okay.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 18:21
 ; We call it the old church. But yes, Brother Pete Duke was our pastor growing up, and then later there were other pastors. But yes, mom and dad would take us to church. I mean, we went to church on Wednesday night, Saturday night, Sunday, Sunday night. And that was, you know, that's just what we did.
 ; Sharon attended the Gypsy Holiness Church when she was growing up. Pete Duke was the pastor. Church was a big part of her life. They had services on Wednesday nights, Saturday nights, Sundays, and Sunday nights. Church ; Gypsy Holiness Church (Gypsy, Oklahoma) ; Pete Duke Church 0 1126 Work Regan Siler 18:46
 ; Now as far as after you graduated, you did not go to college, right?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 18:51
 ; I did not. I went straight to work.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:53
 ; You went straight to work.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 18:53
 ; Probably the next couple of weeks after graduating.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 18:59
 ; You literally went straight to work. Okay, well, so tell me about the the jobs that you've held. I know you said you started out at the B& ; B Rexall for about six months after graduating.
 ; Sharon did not go to college but went straight to work shortly after graduating. She worked at B& ; B Rexall Drug for a few months. Then she worked in the office at Blackstock & ; McMillan. After a year or so, they downsized in the office, so she was let go. Sharon then worked at the Bristow Memorial Hospital as a switchboard operator and in the office. She went from there to American National Bank. Sharon quit working when she pregnant with her son. After her oldest daughter was born, she decided to go back to work. A part-time position wasn't open at American National Bank, so she started work at Community Bank. Sharon worked at Community Bank for over 42 years before retiring. B& ; B Rexall Drug ; Berta Asher ; Harry McMillan ; Bob Blackstock ; Blackstock & ; McMillan ; Bristow Memorial Hospital ; American National Bank ; Kell Kelly ; Community Bank ; Patrick Todd VanOrsdol ; Rachel Michelle VanOrsdol Lenington ; Jennifer Lynn VanOrsdol Morgan ; Lewis Foster ; Arthur Foster Work 0 1673 Husband Regan Siler 27:53
 ; Yes. Okay, well, let's move on from there and talk about Gene. So tell me what your spouse's full name is?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 28:04
 ; Okay. Franklin Gene VanOrsdol.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 28:08
 ; And I have he was born September 19, 1944 and he passed March 15, 2021?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 28:15
 ; That is correct.
 ; Sharon was married to Franklin Gene VanOrsdol. Unfortunately, he passed in 2021. They met at a church event. Sharon and Gene courted about a year before marriage. Franklin Gene VanOrsdol ; Gypsy Holiness Church ; Advent Christian Church Husband 0 1791 Marriage Sharon VanOrsdol 29:51
 ; Yes, we got married in 1968.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 29:54
 ; So I have August 15, 1968, at the Gypsy Holiness Church?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 29:59
 ; That's correct. 
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 30:00
 ; So did you guys just decide you wanted to get married? Or did he ask you? Or how did that work?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 30:05
 ; Well, he kind of asked me. Well, he was kind of bashful, but yeah, in a roundabout way. I don't know if he actually just came out and said will, you marry me. But you know, I got the gist of it.
 ; Sharon and Gene were married on August 15, 1968. They held their wedding ceremony at the Gypsy Holiness Church. Gene built a home for him and Sharon, and they moved in after they were married. Sharon still lives in this same home. Franklin Gene VanOrsdol ; Gypsy Holiness Church Marriage 0 1868 House and Property Sharon VanOrsdol 31:08
 ; Right there. He had that house built by the time we got married, and he had bought the land from his grandma, I think. He and Orlan Colley [12/6/1908-10/1/1968], and I'm sure they had others, but they built the house there. And we've had to add on to it since.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:30
 ; Right.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 31:31
 ; But anyway, the house was there when we got married. So, we moved from my house, eight miles south to the house I live in now.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 31:38
 ; I don't think I knew that. That's neat! Okay, all right.
 ; Orlan Colley helped build Gene and Sharon's home. They added on to it over the years. They also bought more acreage through the years, and now Sharon has over 100 acres on her farm. Orlan Colley ; Franklin Gene VanOrsdol ; Hollis house ; Property 0 2023 Children Regan Siler 33:43
 ; Okay. And then tell me how many children you have.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 33:47
 ; I have three. Pat, Patrick Todd, Rachel Michelle and Jennifer Lynn.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 33:57
 ; Okay. And I have Pat's birthday, July 14, 1972 and he passed, July 4, 2016? Then I have Rachel as September 24, 1974, and then Jennifer's birthday, August 11, 1979? Does that sound, right?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 34:16
 ; Yes.
 ; Sharon has three children. Her oldest was a son, Patrick Todd VanOrsdol. She has two daughters, Rachel Michelle VanOrsdol Lenington and Jennifer Lynn VanOrsdol Morgan. Patrick Todd VanOrsdol ; Rachel Michelle VanOrsdol Lenington ; Jennifer Lynn VanOrsdol Morgan Children 0 2129 Grandchildren Regan Siler 35:29
 ; Okay, then tell me how many, you have a lot of grandchildren?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 35:34
 ; I do. I can't wait to be a great grandma someday. But I don't know if that's ever gonna happen.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 35:34
 ; I have eight.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 35:34
 ; You have eight grandchildren, okay. Because Rachel has three. Jennifer has four. And then Pat has one. Okay, okay. And I know you love being a grandma.
 ; Sharon has eight grandchildren. She says that she can't wait to be a great grandma someday. Rachel Michelle VanOrsdol Lenington ; Jennifer Lynn VanOrsdol Morgan ; Patrick Todd VanOrsdol Grandchildren 0 2155 Retirement Regan Siler 35:55
 ; Well. Have you enjoyed being retired?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 36:00
 ; Yes and no. I never minded working. You know, it never bothered me to work. I always enjoyed it. I didn't mind getting up, going to work.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 36:13
 ; I feel like you're definitely a doer, like you're not a sit around kind of gal.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 36:17
 ; No. That's true. I don't like to stay in the house and sit around. And I'm sure everybody that knows me, knows that.
 ; When asked if she enjoys retirement, Sharon says yes and no. She says that it never bothered her to work, and that she doesn't like to stay in the house and sit around. She says that one of the reasons she went ahead and retired was because of her husband's bad health. Sharon does still stay very involved in the community. Franklin Gene VanOrsdol Retirement 0 2281 Bristow Holiness Church Regan Siler 38:01
 ; Well, so since you don't have any hobbies. I think one of the things that you're known for in Bristow is your heart for service. You have given your heart and soul to this community. So, I'd like to talk some. I know we we talked a little bit about church early on. But I know your church life is very important to you.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 38:25
 ; It is.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:25
 ; So,tell me what you're involved in there.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 38:27
 ; Okay. Well I go to the Bristow Holiness Church now. And we just finished a new sanctuary.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 38:34
 ; A beautiful building!
 ; Sharon attends the Bristow Holiness Church. She teaches the beginner Sunday school class and has for many years. Bristow Holiness Church ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Douglas Meadow ; Cecily Meadow Church 0 2399 Involvement in the Community Regan Siler 39:59
 ; So, then let's also talk about all the other things that you do. And I have a whole list here. You just tell me what all you're involved in, because it's a lot.
 ; 
 ; Speaker 1 40:13
 ; Okay, well, right now I'm not involved in that much. But I will tell you that growing up and being in Bristow, while I worked in Bristow, I always enjoyed getting involved in the community. But you have to understand, by getting involved in the community and working, you had to be working at a place that allowed you to do that. And so working at Community, they were so good to let me go out. I mentored, would do reading programs with kids at the elementary sometimes. But again, they had to let me off for that 45 minutes or whatever to go do that. I delivered Meals-on-Wheels, I don't know how many years.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 40:58
 ; I think you told me, like 40 years?
 ; Sharon has always loved being involved in the community. She stresses the importance of working a job that allows flexibility to be involved. She says the bank always allowed her to be involved. She delivered Meals on Wheels for many years. Sharon helps put on the big Easter egg hunt in Bristow every year. Sharon is also very involved in the Bristow social services. Bristow (Okla.) ; Meals on Wheels Association of America ; Western Heritage Days ; Lafayette Johnson ; Krumme ; Jennifer Lynn VanOrsdol Morgan ; 4H club ; Day of Caring ; Head Start Community 0 2765 Awards Regan Siler 46:05
 ; And then, in talking to Rachel, she also mentioned that you were Citizen of the Year in 2019?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 46:12
 ; Yes, ma'am.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 46:13
 ; And that's through the chamber.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 46:15
 ; Through the chamber, okay. And then you had a business award, tell me about that too.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 46:18
 ; Yes, actually, it was through the Business and Professional Women. They nominated me for an award, and I had to go to Tulsa to interview for that. It was a big deal.
 ; Sharon has received several awards over the years. She received Citizen of the Year in 2019. She also won an award through the Business and Professional Women. She received another award through the Chamber. Rachel Michelle VanOrsdol Lenington ; Citizen of the Year ; Chamber of Commerce ; Business and Professional Women ; Tulsa (Okla.) Awards 0 2833 Social Services Regan Siler 47:13
 ; Well, can you think of, there's such a long list. Can you think of any other things that we have forgotten, that you've been involved in, or that you've enjoyed doing around Bristow?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 47:23
 ; Well, right now, I enjoy helping the social services.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 47:29
 ; In whatever capacity.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 47:30
 ; In whatever. Yes, I do go to the office and volunteer one day a week. But, I'm on the Social Services Board of Directors. So another thing that I remember, Dr Cooper had started a clinic called the Bristow Free Clinic. It was for people that needed care, that couldn't afford care. That was one day a month, I think.
 ; Sharon enjoys helping the social services. She is on the Social Services Board of Directors. Sharon says that she goes to the office and volunteers one day a week. Social Services ; Social Services Board of Directors ; Bristow (Okla.) ; Chip Cooper Social Services 0 2935 How the World is Different Regan Siler 48:55
 ; Okay. Well, I want to ask you and this is just kind of a I'm curious about. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 49:07
 ; Oh, my goodness, technology. Technology has changed so much. As a kid, we grew up being a kid. We can be a kid. You can't be a kid anymore. You're going to be sitting in front of a screen or a phone or something, you know. I don't feel like kids can be kids anymore. I feel like kids have too much technology. They have to keep up with somebody.
 ; Sharon says that technology has changed so much since she was a child. She says that kids can't be kids anymore. Sharon believe that technology has its place and is great for adults, but not for children. Technology Technology 0 3022 Nation's Biggest Problem Regan Siler 50:22
 ; Okay. What do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how do you think it can be solved?
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 50:32
 ; Well, the nation's biggest problem is turning away from God. You know, they took prayer out of school. They took God out of everything. You know what I'm saying. So, our coins say In God We Trust. I don't even know if that still says that. I don't even know if they still print that on on the coins anymore. But they don't, the world doesn't trust in God anymore. They trust in technology.
 ; Sharon feels like our nation's biggest problem is turning away from God. She says they took God out of everything, and that the world doesn't trust in God anymore. God Nation 0 3066 Historic Events Regan Siler 51:06
 ; Okay. How have historic events for example, like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, maybe a natural disaster or even a World War. Have any of any of those types of events affected your life, and even covid? I mean, you could count covid in that.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 51:34
 ; I think it affected everybody. Covid affected everybody's life. The Oklahoma City bombing affected so many people's lives. I don't know, just in daily life, it's affected so much. Because you used to be able to say what you wanted, do what you wanted, go where you wanted. Now, the government's got an eye everywhere. You know, you can be thinking something and it'll pop up.
 ; 
 ; Regan Siler 52:07
 ; It comes up on your phone.
 ; Sharon talks about Covid affecting everybody's life. She says that people are afraid to do anything anymore. Oklahoma City Bombing ; Covid Historic Events 0 3147 Wisdom Regan Siler 52:27
 ; Okay, okay. Well, my final question for you, first of all, is there anything else you would like to tell us? And I would like for you to leave some wisdom for future generations. Give us some Sharon VanOrsdol wisdom to leave for future generations.
 ; 
 ; Sharon VanOrsdol 52:46
 ; Okay. If you're working, if you get there on time, you're late. So be there early, do more than expected, and always stay busy. And as far as wisdom, the thing that has helped me, and I can't remember, it's in Psalms. But I can't remember the verse. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. And there's been many times that I've needed that strength.
 ; Sharon finishes the interview with some words of wisdom. She says that if you are working to not just get there on time, be early. Also, she says to do more than expected and always stay busy. She also references a verse from Psalms that says I can do all things through Christ. She says she has needed that many times. Psalms ; Christ Wisdom 0 MP4 Sharon VanOrsdol, born July 9, 1949, in Gypsy, Oklahoma, shared her life story with Regan Siler. Sharon, who has seven siblings, lived in Gypsy all her life. She attended Gypsy School and Depew High School, graduating in 1967. Sharon worked at various jobs, including Bristow Memorial Hospital and American National Bank, before joining Community Bank, where she worked for 42.5 years. Married to Franklin Gene VanOrsdol since 1968, they had three children. Sharon is actively involved in the Bristow Holiness Church and community service, including Meals-on-Wheels and the Easter egg hunt. She emphasized the impact of technology on youth and the importance of faith. NOTE TRANSCRIPTION BEGIN 00:00:00.300 --> 00:00:24.839 This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is October 30, 2025 and I'm here with Sharon VanOrsdol at the Bristow Library Annex. She's going to tell us a little bit about her life and what it's like living and working in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name? 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.719 Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol. 00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:30.239 Okay, and do I have permission to do this interview? 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:30.780 Yes, you do. 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:34.679 Okay. Please tell me when and where you were born. 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:41.219 I was born July 9, 1949 in Gypsy, Oklahoma. 00:00:41.219 --> 00:00:44.000 Okay, and were you, so I'm guessing you were born in a home? 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.479 At home. 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:53.719 Okay, well, let's start by talking about your family. Can you tell me what your parents full names are? 00:00:53.719 --> 00:01:01.159 My dad's name is Jesse Henry, and my mom's name was Winnie McGuire. She had no middle name. 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:14.299 No middle name, okay? And I have your dad's birthday as 3/24/1909 with date of death, 11/2/1977. 00:01:14.299 --> 00:01:14.359 That's correct. 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:26.780 And then I have, and I remember little Winnie. I have her date of birth as 7/19/1914 and her date of passing 4/1/2008. 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:27.691 Yes, ma'am, she was. 00:01:27.691 --> 00:01:29.879 Okay. I remember she would make, what is it called CherryYum Yum? 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:37.900 One of Rachel's favorites. 00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:43.780 Yes, yeah, because Rachel would bring me some sometimes. Okay. Do you have any siblings? 00:01:43.780 --> 00:02:26.965 I do. I have seven siblings. Betty Louise [Brown] was born and only lived a couple of months. And then my brother, Henry, Henry Oscar Brown, Wilma Irene Brown Duke, Margaret Mae Ailey or Brown Ailey, Fredia Christine Brown Fowler, Shirley Faye Brown, she never married, myself-Sharon Kay Brown VanOrsdol and my youngest sister, Earlene Marie Brown Bostick. 00:02:26.965 --> 00:02:31.750 I don't guess I realized you had that many siblings. Man, you had a big family. 00:02:31.750 --> 00:02:34.750 I did. There's only three of us left now. 00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:43.150 Three left. Okay, so where did you live growing up, and did you have family living nearby you growing up? 00:02:43.150 --> 00:03:12.235 Actually, I've lived in the Gypsy area all my life. We lived eight miles south of Bristow, in the Gypsy area. I was born there, raised there. My dad drove a bus there for a while, and then he worked for the county for several years. My mom was always a housewife. And of course, with that many kids, you stay busy. 00:03:12.235 --> 00:03:13.074 Yeah, absolutely. 00:03:13.074 --> 00:03:31.780 She was always quilting, making quilts, canning. I tell you, she would make quilts. And if anybody in the family needed something, or, you know, burnout or something going on, she would hand quilt those quilts, and then she would give them away. 00:03:31.780 --> 00:03:36.340 Oh, well, she was such, a she was such a neat little lady. I just loved her. 00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:37.300 She was very giving. 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:46.344 Yes, I would agree with that. So your dad, so then your family has always lived in the Gypsy area? 00:03:46.344 --> 00:03:47.365 Yes. 00:03:47.365 --> 00:03:55.884 So back before then, where did their parents live? Did they? 00:03:55.884 --> 00:04:09.490 Mom grew up in Missouri, I believe, or she was, I'm not sure she was born there, but anyway, she came from Missouri. Dad was raised around Kellyville. Yes, a lot of his family lived around Kellyville. 00:04:09.490 --> 00:04:23.290 You know, I have learned while doing these interviews that a lot of people came from Missouri to this area, that that was a typical trek here. And I don't know if it was for the farming, maybe, or? 00:04:23.290 --> 00:04:26.995 Yeah, I'm not sure, but I know that we have family still in Missouri. 00:04:26.995 --> 00:04:35.995 In Missouri? Okay, okay. Well, can you tell me about your school life? Where did you first attend school? 00:04:35.995 --> 00:05:10.660 I attended Gypsy School. At that time, it was K through eighth. My sisters and brother, actually, or part of them, graduated from Gypsy School when it was first through twelfth. Actually, it wasn't K. They didn't have Kindergarten at the time, so it was first through eighth. So, I went the first eight years there at Gypsy and then I transferred to Depew. At that time, we had an option of going to Depew or going to Bristow, and I chose to go to Depew. I graduated from Depew High School. 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:13.524 Okay. And you said you graduated in 1967? 00:05:13.524 --> 00:05:14.185 That's correct. 00:05:14.185 --> 00:05:24.444 Okay. Do you remember having any influential teachers as you grew up? Do you have much memory of like your school life and what that was like? 00:05:24.444 --> 00:05:56.470 Actually, I remember my first grade teacher was Mrs. Burton, and she lived there by the school. She lived real close, and so she would take us kids up to her house to get a treat if we needed it. And if you ever had a belly ache, you just climbed up on her lap and she rubbed your belly, and it was instantly better. But I do remember her. All my teachers were really good, though. All through high school, I had some great teachers and through grade school. 00:05:56.470 --> 00:05:57.894 Did you enjoy school? 00:05:57.894 --> 00:05:59.154 I did. I loved school. 00:05:59.154 --> 00:06:04.795 You loved school? Did you have a favorite subject? Say, more like in high school? 00:06:04.795 --> 00:06:17.694 Yeah, I don't know that I really had a favorite. You know, you just went to school and did your work. And I don't know that I really had anything that I liked better than the other. 00:06:17.694 --> 00:06:29.319 Right, okay. Well, tell me about what meal times were like in your family. Did everyone like get together every evening for dinner and sit down at the table and eat? 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:52.884 We did. Everybody pretty much had their meals. They had their breakfast together. And of course, everybody was going about their daily routines at lunchtime. And then we were all home for supper, that's correct. And we didn't go out and eat. It was you ate what you got, you ate what was on the table, and you enjoyed it. 00:06:52.884 --> 00:07:06.189 Right. Well, I can't imagine having a family that big trying to take them out to eat anyway. That would be something. Well, so did your mom teach you how to cook? Were you part of the meal making? 00:07:06.189 --> 00:07:36.175 We all knew how to cook and clean. There wasn't anybody that just went outside or went and sat down while the rest of them did it. We all joined together. Mom would teach us how to cook, or, you know, we would just watch as the meal came up, which, you know, the meals weren't elaborate. They were, you know, beans and cornbread and gravy and biscuits and, you know, just the simple things of life. But, but yes, we pretty much knew how to cook when we got out of school. 00:07:36.175 --> 00:07:43.014 So, I have to ask, did you have a favorite meal or dessert that your mom fixed for you growing up? 00:07:43.014 --> 00:07:58.540 Chocolate gravy was the favorite breakfast. Yes, we loved chocolate gravy in either pancakes or biscuits. And you know, at supper time, I don't remember a favorite. I just remember they were all good. 00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:01.300 They were all good. Well, I knew she was a good cook. 00:08:01.300 --> 00:08:03.939 She was a wonderful cook. 00:08:03.939 --> 00:08:25.045 Well, thinking back to town life and growing up, what were some of your favorite community activities as a young person? I know a lot of people have talked about like Western Heritage Days, day camp, county fair, stuff like that. Do you have any particular memories growing up that you enjoyed doing in Bristow? 00:08:25.045 --> 00:08:46.210 Do you want growing up or after I after I got in town and started working? Actually, we didn't really get to participate in things growing up. We lived eight miles south of town, and, you know, we just did what we did around home. We didn't get to go into town for a lot of activities or get involved. 00:08:46.210 --> 00:08:55.750 So whenever you did your shopping, still thinking back when you were young, did you come to Bristow to do your shopping and stuff? 00:08:55.750 --> 00:09:19.434 We did. And,actually, that was kind of a highlight on Saturdays, to come to town. Now I do remember growing up, mom and dad would park the car or the truck down at the depot, under the old water tower, and we would play under the water tower while they went and did whatever they were doing. 00:09:19.434 --> 00:09:25.360 That's so cool, because I was actually going to ask if you had any memories of the depot as a young person. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:44.679 Yes, we would play there under the water tower. You know, we didn't walk down Main Street with mom or dad. Usually, all they did was maybe they had something to sell or would just go look to see what they needed to buy. And, you know, they didn't want 15 kids trailing behind. 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:46.360 Right, right. 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.965 So we would stay there and play under the old depot [water tower]. 00:09:50.965 --> 00:09:57.144 Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. So that was, like an every Saturday thing you would come to town or most Saturdays? 00:09:57.144 --> 00:09:58.164 Most Saturdays, yeah. 00:09:58.164 --> 00:09:59.304 Saturdays, okay. 00:09:59.304 --> 00:10:00.144 We would come to town. 00:10:00.144 --> 00:10:11.950 Yeah, okay. Do you remember what some of the biggest or most popular businesses were growing up around town, or something that maybe stuck out in your memory as a youngster? 00:10:11.950 --> 00:10:31.870 Yeah, Henderson's Furniture Store, I remember that. M & P Grocery Store, I think, and let's see Shamas [Shamas Dry Goods], Strong's. 00:10:31.870 --> 00:10:34.914 A lot of those, I've heard people talk about. 00:10:34.914 --> 00:10:43.254 I was trying to think of the dress shops that were there. There actually was a dress shop, I can't remember what the name of that was. 00:10:43.254 --> 00:10:51.235 So did you get to shop for clothes? Or did your mom make most of your clothes? 00:10:51.235 --> 00:10:52.254 She made our clothes. 00:10:52.254 --> 00:10:52.554 Okay. 00:10:52.554 --> 00:10:56.335 I do remember going into Strong's and shopping for shoes. 00:10:56.335 --> 00:10:56.860 Shoes. 00:10:56.860 --> 00:11:05.919 Yeah, yeah, they would have shoes. And they'd measure your feet and, you know, find the size shoe that you needed. So, that was always kind of fun. 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.139 That was probably a big deal. 00:11:08.139 --> 00:11:10.059 Got to get new shoes. 00:11:10.059 --> 00:11:12.759 So was that like, maybe before the school year started? 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:20.200 Yeah probably, I don't really remember if it was a certain time of year, but yeah that was always fun. 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:31.764 So then thinking to later on, like when you were a teenager, did you have a favorite place to hang out, or anything that you did as a teenager? 00:11:31.764 --> 00:11:55.929 No, not a lot. And again, we went to Depew. So, you know, we would hang out in Depew a little bit, but we didn't really have a car or anything. So if we did, or if we were with somebody, we'd drag Main, you know. We would go to T&J maybe, and get a hamburger or Frosty Freeze somewhere like that. 00:11:55.929 --> 00:11:57.309 Right, right. 00:11:57.309 --> 00:12:01.149 But as far as actually having a spot in Bristow, no. 00:12:01.149 --> 00:12:08.095 Didn't nescessarily. Well, do you remember your first car? 00:12:08.095 --> 00:12:20.154 I remember it was, I think it was a Chevy. I got it right after I graduated. It was an older Chevy. I don't remember. 00:12:20.154 --> 00:12:23.034 So was it just your car? Or did you have to share? 00:12:23.034 --> 00:12:58.264 No, that one was just mine. And like I said, I got it after I graduated, because I was starting a job. And I needed a way to get to work. And, honestly, I don't really remember my sisters' cars as they were going up, or my brother. I know my sisters attended a business college. And in Tulsa, Fredia and Margaret did Draughon's School of Business. That's where they went. But I honestly can't tell you a whole lot about their vehicles. I was just busy growing up. 00:12:58.264 --> 00:13:07.379 Or just happy to be able to get around. Well, tell me about the house that you grew up in. What was it like? 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:41.144 It was a little, two-story house. It set there eight miles south and a quarter of a mile back, west, north I guess. Actually, there's a house sitting there now that actually burned right after I got married. It burned, so my mom and dad built another little house in the same location. But you can imagine we were two in a bed, and you know all there and happy as a lark. 00:13:41.144 --> 00:13:48.764 Right. So did you as far as entertainment at home, I'm guessing you guys spent most of your time outdoors? 00:13:48.764 --> 00:14:13.710 We did. They did get a TV later on. I don't remember how old, but we didn't have one when we were really young. We had one a little later. But we went outside, we made mud pies, we made forts in the woods, and we rode bikes. And you know, we entertained ourselves. 00:14:13.710 --> 00:14:14.190 Right. 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:16.934 Or with, you know, the ones of us that were still there. 00:14:16.934 --> 00:14:17.534 Right. 00:14:17.534 --> 00:14:19.514 We just enjoyed each other. 00:14:19.514 --> 00:14:30.735 So, do you remember, you mentioned the TV. Do you remember any particular shows that you enjoyed getting to watch? Because I'm sure it probably wasn't something you just got to do all of the time. 00:14:30.735 --> 00:14:31.034 Oh, no. 00:14:31.034 --> 00:14:33.075 It was probably a special occasion. 00:14:33.075 --> 00:14:39.075 Yeah, honestly, I don't really remember those. Except I do remember my dad liked to watch wrestling. 00:14:39.075 --> 00:14:40.154 Are you serious? 00:14:40.154 --> 00:14:41.654 Yes, he loved to watch wrestling. 00:14:41.654 --> 00:14:42.899 Oh, that's funny. 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:48.360 So, we would watch wrestling shows. I remember that, but honestly, that's the only thing I can really remember. 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.899 I honestly didn't even realize they had wrestling like that back then. 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:56.759 It was amateur stuff, you know? 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.100 Oh, that's hilarious. 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:09.825 Oh, that's funny. Did you listen to any, I'm sure you had radios? Did you listen to any particular kinds of music growing up or not really? 00:15:09.825 --> 00:15:15.644 No, not really. I don't remember, just the radio that we had. 00:15:15.644 --> 00:15:24.450 Okay. Well, as a child do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? 00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:32.000 You know, as a child, we never really thought about that. Or I never really thought about that, you know. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.919 You were just busy being a kid. 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:52.639 I was busy being a kid. We would go outside and play. And we'd play church, or we'd play school. But I don't have any early memories of really wanting to be anything in particular, besides being a housewife. 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:53.000 Right. 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:53.779 That's all I knew. 00:15:53.779 --> 00:16:03.080 Right, right. So being there where you grew up, did your dad farm or anything? Did you have farm chores and stuff to do? 00:16:03.080 --> 00:17:40.900 We didn't really have a farm. We had a few cows, and they always raised a big garden, and we had a horse. We'd ride the horse occasionally, and we didn't do that a whole lot. But I do remember almost every Sunday, we would get together with my aunt and uncle, who is my mom's brother, and my dad's sister. Because mom and dad married brothers and sisters, so they were actually our double cousins. And either we would go there on Sunday, or they would come to our house, the whole family. And I remember, Uncle Walter and Aunt Tressie (sp), they had horses. And we would get out there and ride horses or donkeys, play croquet, badminton, things like that. But we just always were a family like that, we had people over. Mom would always have the preacher over, or somebody for lunch. And I actually had a cousin that moved in with us, Albert Blythe. He moved in with us when he was a teenager. Because his parents, which was my dad's folks, my dad's brother was moving to California. And Albert didn't want to go, so he came and lived with us. And he actually met his wife down the hill, Ruby Blythe, Ruby Morris, while he was living there with us. So you know, we were just family. We just had fun. 00:17:40.900 --> 00:17:54.220 So I feel like the difference, or a big difference maybe between now and then, is it just feels like everything was very much more family oriented, there was less distractions. 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:56.019 Absolutely. 00:17:56.019 --> 00:17:59.000 So your entertainment was your family. Your family was your friends. 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:05.960 Yeah, that's right. We didn't socialize a lot, you know church people. 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.000 And church was big in your life? 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:16.819 It was very big, very present in our life. Yes, we were raised in church. We were raised in the Gypsy Holiness Church. 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.640 Now was it at the same location that it is now? 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:20.660 Across the road. 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:21.000 Across the road? Okay. 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:45.404 We call it the old church. But yes, Brother Pete Duke was our pastor growing up, and then later there were other pastors. But yes, mom and dad would take us to church. I mean, we went to church on Wednesday night, Saturday night, Sunday, Sunday night. And that was, you know, that's just what we did. 00:18:45.404 --> 00:18:46.839 Okay. 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:51.000 Now as far as after you graduated, you did not go to college, right? 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.000 I did not. I went straight to work. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:59.119 straight to work. Probably the next couple of weeks after graduating. 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:04.559 You literally went straight to work. Okay, well, so tell me about the the jobs that you've held. I know you said you started out at the B&B Rexall for about six months after graduating. 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:56.000 I did. I worked for Berta Asher at B&B Rexall Drug, and I worked as a soda jerk. They had the soda fountain, and so I just worked there as a soda jerk. And after a few months, Harry McMillan or Bob Blackstock, I can't remember which one. One of them came in and asked me if I would like to go to work for them, which their office was right there on the corner. So I said, sure, I've never done that, but I did have shorthand and things and school. So that's what they were wanting me to do, is take dictation and do some typing and stuff. So I went and worked for Blackstock & McMillan. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.000 So kind of like a receptionist? 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:26.585 Yes, receptionist. They had another girl in their office, Linda, and I worked there with her. So I was just kind of her backup. And I worked there for, I don't know, a year, maybe a little longer, I don't remember. And then they decided that they were going to downsize to one person, so I was the low man on the totem pole. 00:20:26.585 --> 00:20:27.125 Right, right. 00:20:27.125 --> 00:20:52.970 So I actually went straight from there. I don't even think I was off a week, and I went to the Bristow Memorial Hospital, and I worked as a switchboard operator. So we had a switchboard at that time. So I'd work in the office, do paperwork and answer the phone and do a switchboard operating. 00:20:52.970 --> 00:20:54.410 So you did that for about a year? 00:20:54.410 --> 00:21:13.894 I did that. Yes, I don't remember how long, probably a year, maybe two. And then I and I don't know why I decided to change, if I decided or what the deal was, but anyway, I went from there to the American National Bank. 00:21:13.894 --> 00:21:24.214 Which I find funny, because growing up, you always worked at Community, and my mom always worked at at the time American National. I did not know you had ever worked at American National. 00:21:24.214 --> 00:21:26.315 I did. I did. It was on Seventh Street. 00:21:26.315 --> 00:21:27.214 Yeah, right. 00:21:27.214 --> 00:21:41.000 When the bank was on Seventh Street, I worked there. In fact, I can tell you my very first day to work. I went into work and they had had a robbery. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:46.579 Are you serious? What a first day! 00:21:46.579 --> 00:22:18.710 They had someone come through the top, through the roof, went into their drive through and had robbed it. But little did they know that of course, their money is locked up in the vault, except for their coins. So they had dumped all the coins into a trash basket, if I can remember right, but couldn't get them out because it was all too heavy. Couldn't get it back through the roof. 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:20.630 So probably not a very smart robber. 00:22:20.630 --> 00:22:25.849 Wasn't a very smart robber, and it was an interesting first day at work. 00:22:25.849 --> 00:22:29.150 So did that make you question your choice to leave the hospital? 00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:34.849 I wondered if I should be working there. But actually, that's not the only robbery they had while I worked there. 00:22:34.849 --> 00:22:35.690 Oh my goodness! 00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:37.069 They had another robbery. 00:22:37.069 --> 00:22:44.734 So would that have been like in the 70s? Like maybe mid 70s? 00:22:44.734 --> 00:23:20.420 Yeah, probably. I'm sure that Kell [Kell Kelly] or somebody could probably tell you, I don't know. But anyway, I do remember that I was working in the back, and someone ran back from the front and said we're being robbed. And so, of course, I was in the back and I didn't know anything about it. But come to find out the robber, the guy that came to hold up the bank, took the taxi to rob the bank. 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:21.079 Oh, my Gosh! 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:32.345 And, so, when Gerald figured out what was going on, he drove off without the robber, and the robber was left on foot. 00:23:32.345 --> 00:23:34.204 These aren't very smart robbers, are they? 00:23:34.204 --> 00:23:40.444 They weren't very smart. They did catch him. But anyway, that's a couple of interesting things. 00:23:40.444 --> 00:23:42.484 Well, that's definitely interesting! 00:23:42.484 --> 00:23:48.545 Then one other time, while I was working there, they had a bomb threat. So, you know, it was kind of active. 00:23:48.545 --> 00:23:52.069 Yeah. Man, it sounds like it was very active! 00:23:52.069 --> 00:23:56.029 Yeah, but it was a false alarm. We did have to evacuate the bank though. 00:23:56.029 --> 00:23:59.150 Well, thank goodness it was a false alarm. 00:23:59.150 --> 00:23:59.869 Absolutely! 00:23:59.869 --> 00:24:08.150 So then from there, you landed at your home, at Community Bank for the next 42 and a half years? 00:24:08.150 --> 00:24:08.630 That's right. 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:16.654 That is incredible! So tell us a little bit about your time at Community Bank, like what you did there and the different positions you held. 00:24:16.654 --> 00:24:32.075 Well, let me tell you first that the reason I left the bank was to have my family. I actually left because I was pregnant with Pat and I just wanted to have some time off. 00:24:32.075 --> 00:24:32.555 Right. 00:24:32.555 --> 00:24:59.660 And then I decided after Rachel that I wanted to go back to work. A part time position wasn't available at American. So I went to Community and actually applied, and they hired me. I thought it was going to be part time, but from the day I was hired, I worked every day. It wasn't part time. 00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:01.025 It wasn't part time! 00:25:01.025 --> 00:25:16.085 Lewis Foster hired me. Arthur Foster was the president at that time. So from that time, I worked every day pretty much for the next 42 and a half years. 00:25:16.085 --> 00:25:19.265 So did you take any time off whenever you had Jennifer? 00:25:19.265 --> 00:25:37.069 I did. I was going to take more time off. She was three weeks early. I worked until six o'clock the night before she was born. But I didn't know that. I didn't know I was going to be doing that. 00:25:37.069 --> 00:25:38.390 Oh my goodness! 00:25:38.390 --> 00:25:43.430 But, yes. And then I just was off probably a couple of months or whatever. 00:25:43.430 --> 00:25:43.910 Right. 00:25:43.910 --> 00:25:45.214 And then I went back to work. 00:25:45.214 --> 00:25:56.734 Okay. So, during the time that you were there, I know you told me, you started out kind of like a receptionist, and then you had several different positions while you were there. Tell us about some of the positions you held there. 00:25:56.734 --> 00:26:57.769 Actually, I started out as a receptionist, like I said. I thought I was going to be starting part time, but pretty much worked, well I did work every day. I went from there and did some teller work. I worked in the teller line. I loved, loved working in the teller line. Even after I moved positions, I would still work on Saturdays in the teller line. I worked in new accounts, I would open accounts, worked in CDs and IRAs. Through that time, I advanced from teller, assistant to assistant vice president, and then went on to be a vice president. At the time I retired, I was working in IRA, CDs, new accounts, just whatever. I would jump around to whoever needed help or whatever they needed. 00:26:57.769 --> 00:27:02.930 Right. And I know you said you didn't go to college, but during that time, you took a lot of business classes? 00:27:02.930 --> 00:27:09.470 I did. I took Principles of Banking and different college classes. 00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:12.710 That applied to your job? 00:27:12.710 --> 00:27:20.075 Yes, that applied to banking. Yes, the bank sent me to different schools and classes that we took. 00:27:20.075 --> 00:27:26.134 Okay. So I would say you must have been pretty happy at Community to have been there for that long. 00:27:26.134 --> 00:27:41.420 I was very happy. They were great people to work with. And I loved what I was doing. I loved my job. I loved the people that I worked with and for. And, yeah, I stayed there 42 and a half years. 00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:52.819 Well, we love Community Bank with my own personal family. There's just a very hometown feel, and it's always stayed that way, which we appreciate it. 00:27:52.819 --> 00:27:53.299 Yes, it has. 00:27:53.299 --> 00:28:04.805 Yes. Okay, well, let's move on from there and talk about Gene. So tell me what your spouse's full name is? 00:28:04.805 --> 00:28:08.224 Okay. Franklin Gene VanOrsdol. 00:28:08.224 --> 00:28:15.244 And I have he was born September 19, 1944 and he passed March 15, 2021? 00:28:15.244 --> 00:28:15.964 That is correct. 00:28:15.964 --> 00:28:18.305 And you know, I did not know his first name was Franklin. 00:28:18.305 --> 00:28:19.625 Franklin Gene, yeah. 00:28:19.625 --> 00:28:21.184 I've only ever known him as Gene. 00:28:21.184 --> 00:28:26.345 Yeah, that's what he went by. He just went by Gene. 00:28:26.345 --> 00:28:33.109 So, can you tell me what your first impression of him was when you met him, or when you first saw him? 00:28:33.109 --> 00:29:31.220 Actually, the first time I saw him, his mother and he had come to the Gypsy Church. And you know, when a new boy comes to church everybody's looking. So, anyway, I noticed him then, and thought he was cute. But you know, where they had their family, we had ours. They went to the Advent Christian Church. But Gene's brother's wife, I don't know, I guess they were married at that time. Anyway, Phyllis, at that time, we were having a camp meeting, out north of Bristow. The churches had a campground out there, and so she asked me if he came to church that night, if I would sit by him. That's kind of how we got together. 00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:32.779 So, that's how the romance began? 00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:44.825 He was bashful, and I was bashful. We just kind of sat there. We didn't really talk, didn't really do anything. But he did ask me to go out again, and that's actually where it started. 00:29:44.825 --> 00:29:50.224 So, how long was your courtship? 00:29:50.224 --> 00:29:50.944 A year. 00:29:50.944 --> 00:29:51.365 A year? 00:29:51.365 --> 00:29:54.605 Yes, we got married in 1968. 00:29:54.605 --> 00:29:59.750 So I have August 15, 1968, at the Gypsy Holiness Church? 00:29:59.750 --> 00:30:00.349 That's correct. 00:30:00.349 --> 00:30:05.450 So did you guys just decide you wanted to get married? Or did he ask you? Or how did that work? 00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:21.335 Well, he kind of asked me. Well, he was kind of bashful, but yeah, in a roundabout way. I don't know if he actually just came out and said will, you marry me. But you know, I got the gist of it. 00:30:21.335 --> 00:30:32.255 Yeah, you got the hint. Well, tell me what your first years of marriage were like. Were they tough? Were they wonderful? What was that like? 00:30:32.255 --> 00:30:59.660 I think everybody's first year of marriage is going to be tough. You know, you just learn to live with somebody new. After mom and dad and all the things you were used to. Actually, he had a house built for me before we ever got married. He had started a house after we had decided to get married. And the house was ready, we moved into our own house. 00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:01.160 So, where was that located? 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:07.204 That was five miles South and three quarters of a mile East of Bristow, where I live right now. 00:31:07.204 --> 00:31:08.285 Oh, so right there? 00:31:08.285 --> 00:31:30.605 Right there. He had that house built by the time we got married, and he had bought the land from his grandma, I think. He and Orlan Colley [12/6/1908-10/1/1968], and I'm sure they had others, but they built the house there. And we've had to add on to it since. 00:31:30.605 --> 00:31:31.025 Right. 00:31:31.025 --> 00:31:38.450 But anyway, the house was there when we got married. So, we moved from my house, eight miles south to the house I live in now. 00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:42.650 I don't think I knew that. That's neat! Okay, all right. 00:31:42.650 --> 00:31:46.490 And I don't know what question you just asked me. 00:31:46.490 --> 00:31:52.069 Well, I mean, knowing now that that's the house. I didn't realize that that's where you have always lived. 00:31:52.069 --> 00:31:53.150 I've always lived. 00:31:53.150 --> 00:31:58.474 Well, that's so neat. So, how many acres did you have when you first got married? 00:31:58.474 --> 00:32:14.494 We had 37 acres there. No, I take that back. He may have had 15, and we bought some later. Either 15 or 30. He had bought it from his grandmother. 00:32:14.494 --> 00:32:19.160 And then you just kept adding it throughout your life together? 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:59.464 Actually, we bought another 80 acres that adjoined us. But we didn't get to buy that until just a few years before he passed away. It was owned by the Hollis family, who was a doctor here. And we tried to buy it several times through the years, and he wouldn't sell it. Then he passed on, and his kids had it, his kids got it, and they didn't want to sell it. And, so, a few years back, we saw a for sale on it and immediately contacted the realtor. And that's when we bought the 80 acres next to us. 00:32:59.464 --> 00:33:02.224 So,now you have around 124 acre farm? 00:33:02.224 --> 00:33:04.085 Yes. About that 130, 100. 00:33:04.085 --> 00:33:11.210 You have a lot, we'll just say a lot. 00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:22.069 Yeah. We have other property that doesn't join the property. But that was inherited, a lot of it by his dad, from his mom and dad. 00:33:22.069 --> 00:33:28.174 So, you guys have pretty much always had cattle and farmed there, right? 00:33:28.174 --> 00:33:40.234 Yes, we've farmed. He had cattle when we got married, maybe half a dozen or so. We've just added to that and raised cattle and calves and whatever. 00:33:40.234 --> 00:33:40.894 Over the years? Okay. 00:33:40.894 --> 00:33:43.174 Since we've been married, yes, 00:33:43.174 --> 00:33:47.255 Okay. And then tell me how many children you have. 00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:57.079 I have three. Pat, Patrick Todd, Rachel Michelle and Jennifer Lynn. 00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:16.744 Okay. And I have Pat's birthday, July 14, 1972 and he passed, July 4, 2016? Then I have Rachel as September 24, 1974, and then Jennifer's birthday, August 11, 1979? Does that sound, right? 00:34:16.744 --> 00:34:17.164 Yes. 00:34:17.164 --> 00:34:31.264 Well tell me, especially since you were a working mother, about any particular challenges you had as a mom with littles trying to work. Back at that time, what were some challenges you faced? 00:34:31.264 --> 00:34:35.164 Well, you had a challenge every day of getting up and getting around. 00:34:35.164 --> 00:34:38.090 Getting out the door? 00:34:38.090 --> 00:35:11.974 Yes, yes. But you know, I never really counted that as a challenge. It was just an everyday thing that you did. You know with the first one, of course with Pat and Rachel, I was home more. I didn't have to get everybody up and out. But after I started back to work, they were a little bit older. They weren't old, but they were a little bit older. So, you just get in a routine. You want to get there on time, you get there early. 00:35:11.974 --> 00:35:16.045 Right, right. Well, you had really good kids, too. 00:35:16.045 --> 00:35:25.440 I did. My kids were fabulous. They were good kids. They weren't rebellious, at least not when they were little. 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.719 We're not going to get into that, Sharon. 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.760 Okay. 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:34.000 Okay, then tell me how many, you have a lot of grandchildren? 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:34.559 I do. I can't wait to be a great grandma someday. But I don't know if that's ever gonna happen. 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:34.820 I have eight. 00:35:34.820 --> 00:35:55.840 You have eight grandchildren, okay. Because Rachel has three. Jennifer has four. And then Pat has one. Okay, okay. And I know you love being a grandma. 00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:00.739 Well. Have you enjoyed being retired? 00:36:00.739 --> 00:36:13.219 Yes and no. I never minded working. You know, it never bothered me to work. I always enjoyed it. I didn't mind getting up, going to work. 00:36:13.219 --> 00:36:17.000 I feel like you're definitely a doer, like you're not a sit around kind of gal. 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:24.980 No. That's true. I don't like to stay in the house and sit around. And I'm sure everybody that knows me, knows that. 00:36:24.980 --> 00:36:25.880 Right, right. 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:34.880 Because I am still out and doing. I'm probably in town two or three times a day. But it never bothered me to work. 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:38.000 So it was probably a big adjustment, maybe? 00:36:38.000 --> 00:37:11.039 It was an adjustment of course. The reason, one of the reasons that I retired when I did was Gene's health was bad. He had been retired several years. He retired when he was 65, so he had been retired several years. And I felt like he needed me at home. So honestly, I retired to be there, to be there with him. And I like the part of being able to do what you want, when you want to do it. 00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:12.659 Whatever, whenever. 00:37:12.659 --> 00:37:24.900 Yeah, not having to be at a certain place at a certain time most of the time. But I didn't enjoy the free time. I'm not a big hobby person. I didn't really. 00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:32.900 That's funny, because that was going to be my next question. Do you have any hobbies? Aside from all of your community service work. 00:37:32.900 --> 00:37:33.260 Yeah. 00:37:33.260 --> 00:37:34.639 But I think you're just so... 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:42.480 I'm not really a hobby person. I enjoyed taking pictures, you know just for the fun of it. If we had a reunion, I was always snapping pictures. 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.000 You were the camera lady? 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:49.840 I'm the camera person. I'm probably not even going to have any pictures of me when I die. I'm not in anything. 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.639 Well as a photographer, that's how it is at my house, too. Like I'm hardly in any pictures. 00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:55.780 I know. 00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:57.579 You're always the picture taker. 00:37:57.579 --> 00:37:59.320 Girls, you better start looking early. 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:00.159 Yes, right. 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:01.719 I'm not in any of my pictures. 00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:25.284 Well, so since you don't have any hobbies. I think one of the things that you're known for in Bristow is your heart for service. You have given your heart and soul to this community. So, I'd like to talk some. I know we we talked a little bit about church early on. But I know your church life is very important to you. 00:38:25.284 --> 00:38:25.644 It is. 00:38:25.644 --> 00:38:27.804 So, tell me what you're involved in there. 00:38:27.804 --> 00:38:34.945 Okay. Well I go to the Bristow Holiness Church now. And we just finished a new sanctuary. 00:38:34.945 --> 00:38:35.844 A beautiful building! 00:38:35.844 --> 00:39:18.295 We just got into it a week ago Sunday. It is beautiful! So we had some fundraisers along the way for that. But right now, I've taught the beginners, the little kids in Sunday school. They start about 18 months to up to age four. I've taught that age group for several years, a lot of years. I don't even know how many years, but I love them. I love teaching that group. I conduct booster bands for them, the little ones that come up on Sunday morning and sing little booster band songs. And they're so cute. They're so cute when they're up there. 00:39:18.295 --> 00:39:18.594 Yes. 00:39:18.594 --> 00:39:55.585 And I love doing that. And you know, our church has always been very giving. We are working right now on helping raise stuff for Social Services. We're bringing in stuffing mixes for Social Services, for Christmas baskets. So we've got a great youth group, and we've got a great church altogether. Our pastor, Brother Douglas and Sister Cecily are wonderful people. They're great leaders, and they're wonderful people. So I love my church! 00:39:55.585 --> 00:39:58.284 Yeah. I knew that was very important. 00:39:58.284 --> 00:39:59.965 It is very important to me. Yes ma'am. 00:39:59.965 --> 00:40:13.329 So, then let's also talk about all the other things that you do. And I have a whole list here. You just tell me what all you're involved in, because it's a lot. 00:40:13.329 --> 00:40:58.179 Okay, well, right now I'm not involved in that much. But I will tell you that growing up and being in Bristow, while I worked in Bristow, I always enjoyed getting involved in the community. But you have to understand, by getting involved in the community and working, you had to be working at a place that allowed you to do that. And so working at Community, they were so good to let me go out. I mentored, would do reading programs with kids at the elementary sometimes. But again, they had to let me off for that 45 minutes or whatever to go do that. I delivered Meals-on-Wheels, I don't know how many years. 00:40:58.179 --> 00:41:00.219 I think you told me, like 40 years? 00:41:00.219 --> 00:41:44.829 Yeah, probably. Honestly, I never kept track with the years, because time goes so fast. But I started when, well I don't know if I started then, but one of my first memories is when they served the meals out of the Mason's Lodge. They would actually go to the Mason's Lodge and get the meals to deliver. Then they went on, for awhile I think they did it at the Housing Authority. And now they're doing doing it at the Ninth Street village. 00:41:44.829 --> 00:41:45.190 Right. 00:41:45.190 --> 00:41:47.349 Yeah, I don't remember the name of that. But anyway... 00:41:47.349 --> 00:41:48.849 The retirement community there? 00:41:48.849 --> 00:41:58.809 Yeah, the retirement community. We get the meals. And they have several drivers that go out and deliver the meals to the people, home-bound or people that can't get out. 00:41:58.809 --> 00:41:58.989 Right. 00:41:58.989 --> 00:42:04.210 And they're always looking for volunteers. So, if you want to volunteer, there you go. 00:42:04.210 --> 00:42:05.755 Another volunteer opportunity. 00:42:05.755 --> 00:42:26.695 Another volunteer. I remember Western Heritage Days. We used to, all of the stores would dress up for Western Heritage Days. We would put our old costumes on and have the contest for best dressed and the best business. I remember we'd have gun fights on the street. 00:42:26.695 --> 00:42:42.039 So, do you remember back then? Western Heritage Days has always been a very common theme or a prominent memory for people. Who at that time, when it was such a big deal, who organized it at that time? 00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:45.539 You know, I don't really remember who organized it. 00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:48.079 To have all the businesses involved. 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.079 I think it was just organized by the chamber. 00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:51.800 Okay. 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:52.639 I'm not sure. 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:53.900 I was just curious. 00:42:53.900 --> 00:43:19.684 Yeah. I remember Lafayette Johnson. He was a fellow that used to shine shoes in Red Bird Shoe Shop. And he was a very big advocate. He would go up and down the street, either selling tickets, if they need them sold, or promoting it. I remember they used to have bed races. They would have bed races in the street, stick horse races, all kinds of things. 00:43:19.684 --> 00:43:19.980 Fun stuff. 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.559 So, it was a really big thing back then. 00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:22.219 Yeah. 00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:24.840 So I really enjoyed getting involved with that. 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:37.519 With that being said, that along with your Easter egg hunt, that was all like you mentioned earlier, because you worked somewhere that allowed you to be part of that. 00:43:37.519 --> 00:44:29.650 Yes, Easter egg hunt. I love the Easter egg hunt, and it's still going now. It actually started with the 4h Club. I think before I got involved, several years before that, they had one somewhere. I don't remember, it seems like it might have been out by the Krumme building or something. But anyway, by the time I got involved Jennifer was in 4H. Danny Collins had kids in 4H and so we said, why don't we start that as a 4H project. Well, through the years, you have different 4H leaders that do different things. But the 4H leader right now, she's doing a great job helping us. So we're getting that done. But yes, I love the Easter egg hunt, and it's still going now. I mean and it started when Jennifer was in 4H. 00:44:29.650 --> 00:44:30.539 Right! 00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:41.619 So, yeah. And then you also, I know you've mentioned the toy run, the Day of Caring with United Way... 00:44:41.619 --> 00:45:18.804 Yeah, we just got through with that. And social services is a big part of that. It has evolved. It's actually, as you know, it's hard to get volunteers for things. But it's just as hard to get people to ask for help, you know. So when we started it, we actually had projects that people would give us ideas to do. We would mow lawns, we would clean yards, you know. But as time went on and the liability got greater, as far as if you did anything wrong. 00:45:18.804 --> 00:45:19.344 Right. 00:45:19.344 --> 00:45:28.090 You know you had to kind of scale back. But anyway, we just got through with the Day of Caring in August. The toy run is actually going to be tomorrow. 00:45:28.090 --> 00:45:28.630 Oh! 00:45:28.630 --> 00:45:49.090 It's not, no it's Saturday, November 1. Yeah, and the businesses have been very generous in giving to that. You know, we'll talk to the businesses and see if they want to donate some money or donate a toy. If they donate money, then we go buy the toys. 00:45:49.090 --> 00:45:50.000 And is that donated to social services? 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.539 It's donated to social services and some to the Head Start. 00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:54.820 Okay! 00:45:54.820 --> 00:46:05.800 They get some of those also, if they have kids that need toys. So, yeah, that's going to be Saturday. Anybody that wants to get involved in that, come on down. 00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:12.900 And then, in talking to Rachel, she also mentioned that you were Citizen of the Year in 2019? 00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:13.440 Yes, ma'am. 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.000 And that's through the chamber. 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.840 Through the chamber, okay. And then you had a business award, tell me about that too. 00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:38.744 Yes, actually, it was through the Business and Professional Women. They nominated me for an award, and I had to go to Tulsa to interview for that. It was a big deal. 00:46:38.744 --> 00:46:39.704 Yeah! 00:46:39.704 --> 00:46:48.764 I, of course, was nervous going up there, but they had a list of questions that they would ask. And anyway, I got that. 00:46:48.764 --> 00:46:50.144 So,it was a big honor. 00:46:50.144 --> 00:46:59.804 It was quite an honor. Yes, it was. It was a great deal. Also, there was another one at the chamber. What did you mention? 00:46:59.804 --> 00:47:01.050 The Citizen of the Year? 00:47:01.050 --> 00:47:03.510 Yeah, it was the achievement, I think. 00:47:03.510 --> 00:47:05.130 Okay. 00:47:05.130 --> 00:47:08.340 I have gotten two awards through the chamber. 00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:11.699 That doesn't surprise me even a little bit. 00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:13.000 That was quite an honor to do that. 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:23.380 Well, can you think of, there's such a long list. Can you think of any other things that we have forgotten, that you've been involved in, or that you've enjoyed doing around Bristow? 00:47:23.380 --> 00:47:29.019 Well, right now, I enjoy helping the social services. 00:47:29.019 --> 00:47:30.000 In whatever capacity. 00:47:30.000 --> 00:48:00.885 In whatever. Yes, I do go to the office and volunteer one day a week. But, I'm on the Social Services Board of Directors. So another thing that I remember, Dr Cooper had started a clinic called the Bristow Free Clinic. It was for people that needed care, that couldn't afford care. That was one day a month, I think. 00:48:00.885 --> 00:48:01.244 Okay. 00:48:01.244 --> 00:48:04.244 So I was on that board for awhile. 00:48:04.244 --> 00:48:06.105 So were you also on the hospital board? 00:48:06.105 --> 00:48:10.559 I was on the hospital board. Yes, I was on the hospital board. 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:20.199 You need a whole entire big resume to remember everything that you've done. Anything else that you can think of that we might be forgetting? 00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:29.840 Well, no, not really. Again, I have to emphasize the fact that none of this would have been possible if I hadn't worked in a place that was allowing me. 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:29.920 When you work and you are on these boards, you have to have some time off. 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:31.659 Wonderful business! 00:48:31.659 --> 00:48:33.280 Right. 00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:37.300 To do that. 00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:38.599 Right, Okay. 00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:45.599 Let me see, I was secretary for the bank for a while. 00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:54.420 Oh, okay. We'll probably turn this interview off and go, oh yeah, there was like three or four other things I forgot about. 00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:55.199 That's plenty. 00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:07.980 Okay. Well, I want to ask you and this is just kind of a I'm curious about. How do you feel the world is different now than when you were a child? 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:34.585 Oh, my goodness, technology. Technology has changed so much. As a kid, we grew up being a kid. We can be a kid. You can't be a kid anymore. You're going to be sitting in front of a screen or a phone or something, you know. I don't feel like kids can be kids anymore. I feel like kids have too much technology. They have to keep up with somebody. 00:49:34.585 --> 00:49:37.405 Almost like the youth has been robbed? 00:49:37.405 --> 00:49:38.664 Yes, yes. 00:49:38.664 --> 00:49:42.804 I feel like they feel pressured to do more. 00:49:42.804 --> 00:49:43.000 Right! 00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:49.840 Know more. So, I mean, I think technology has been a good, big part of that. 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.960 Well, I do think in some ways, you know, obviously technology is a positive. 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:56.480 Technology is great! 00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:01.000 But in so many ways, especially for youth, I agree with you. I think it's a big negative. 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:07.840 I think it's great for kids, not for kids, but for adults. I think we need it. We have to have it. 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:08.260 Yeah. 00:50:08.260 --> 00:50:10.539 But I think kids need to be kids. 00:50:10.539 --> 00:50:10.960 Yes. 00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:17.440 I think they need to be taught to enjoy their life, enjoy being a kid. 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:20.800 Enjoy and learn how to talk, actually talk to people. 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:22.780 Actually talk to people, yeah. 00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:32.440 Okay. What do you feel is our nation's biggest problem, and how do you think it can be solved? 00:50:32.440 --> 00:51:03.025 Well, the nation's biggest problem is turning away from God. You know, they took prayer out of school. They took God out of everything. You know what I'm saying. So, our coins say In God We Trust. I don't even know if that still says that. I don't even know if they still print that on on the coins anymore. But they don't, the world doesn't trust in God anymore. They trust in technology. 00:51:03.025 --> 00:51:04.164 And man? 00:51:04.164 --> 00:51:06.025 Man, yes absolutely! 00:51:06.025 --> 00:51:34.500 Okay. How have historic events for example, like the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, maybe a natural disaster or even a World War. Have any of any of those types of events affected your life, and even covid? I mean, you could count covid in that. 00:51:34.500 --> 00:52:07.005 I think it affected everybody. Covid affected everybody's life. The Oklahoma City bombing affected so many people's lives. I don't know, just in daily life, it's affected so much. Because you used to be able to say what you wanted, do what you wanted, go where you wanted. Now, the government's got an eye everywhere. You know, you can be thinking something and it'll pop up. 00:52:07.005 --> 00:52:10.320 It comes up on your phone. 00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:22.380 I'm like, how could that be possible? So, I don't know. I just think that especially Covid has had such an effect. People are afraid to do anything anymore. 00:52:22.380 --> 00:52:22.739 Yeah. 00:52:22.739 --> 00:52:27.360 They're afraid to go out in public without covering their mouth, something like that. 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:46.300 Okay, okay. Well, my final question for you, first of all, is there anything else you would like to tell us? And I would like for you to leave some wisdom for future generations. Give us some Sharon VanOrsdol wisdom to leave for future generations. 00:52:46.300 --> 00:53:25.539 Okay. If you're working, if you get there on time, you're late. So be there early, do more than expected, and always stay busy. And as far as wisdom, the thing that has helped me, and I can't remember, it's in Psalms. But I can't remember the verse. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. And there's been many times that I've needed that strength. 00:53:25.539 --> 00:53:48.159 Yes, I agree. Well Sharon, I know you were nervous to do this interview, but honestly, it's been one of my favorite ones. You've done such a great job, and it's been such a joy talking to you. Your interview will become an important part of the Oral History Archives for our museum. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us, and we really appreciate it. 00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.159 Well, you are welcome! NOTE TRANSCRIPTION END ]]> video 0 https://bristoworalhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=OHP-0077_Sharon_VanOrsdol.xml OHP-0077_Sharon_VanOrsdol.xml
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Title
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Sharon VanOrsdol
Description
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Sharon VanOrsdol, born July 9, 1949, in Gypsy, Oklahoma, shared her life story with Regan Siler. Sharon, who has seven siblings, lived in Gypsy all her life. She attended Gypsy School and Depew High School, graduating in 1967. Sharon worked at various jobs, including Bristow Memorial Hospital and American National Bank, before joining Community Bank, where she worked for 42.5 years. Married to Franklin Gene VanOrsdol since 1968, they had three children. Sharon is actively involved in the Bristow Holiness Church and community service, including Meals-on-Wheels and the Easter egg hunt. She emphasized the impact of technology on youth and the importance of faith.
Identifier
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OHP-0077
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2025/10/30
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video