Lucinda Johnson - Part 1

Users are warned that there may be words and descriptions which may be culturally sensitive and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms and annotations which reflect the creator's attitude or that of the period in which the item was written may be considered inappropriate today. WN: Okay, this is Wanda Newton and today is February the 19th, 1992. I'm in the home of Lucinda Johnson, which is located, what, a mile north of Slick? LJ: Yes. WN: A mile north of Slick. But anyway, Ms. Johnson has consented to tell us a little bit for posterity. One of the things that I wanted to ask Ms. Johnson first is, tell us your full name, and where you were born, and... LJ: Well, my name is Lucinda Allen Johnson, now. And I was born six miles east of Bristow, on Skull Creek. And I've lived there all my life, except when I got married and moved here. And 00:01:00what else do you want to know? WN: And when did you get married, Ms. Johnson? LJ: Oh, my first marriage to Majel's father was in...do I know? Let's see. Gee, I can't tell you. WN: Okay, well you can tell me the year you were born. LJ: Well, I was born in 94. WN: 1894? And so you are now... LJ: The 21st of July, 1894. WN: 1894. LJ: And then this next coming July, July 1992, I'll be 98 years old. WN: Oh, it's fantastic. Oh, you have such beautiful skin. You should leave your recipe for the world to use. LJ: Such as what? WN: You should leave your recipe for your skin cream for everybody. LJ: You know, I haven't washed

myself, put any cream or anything on my face for about three months. Since I've hurt my arm, I haven't been able to wash my face like it should be. Is that recording? WN: Yeah, that's wonderful! Ha ha! Everybody will know how to be gorgeous when you're 98 now. Ha ha! What can you tell me about your mother and father, Ms. Johnson? LJ: Well, my father was Jesse Allen. I really don't know what year he was born, though. And he was grandpa (it is believed Lucinda is talking about here father, Jesse Allen, not her grandpa) was more Irish than he was Euchee. He was only a fourth Euchee. And what I can remember about grandpa (it is believed she's referring to her father here), he, he was United States Marshal, Assistant United States Marshal to Ledbetter (James Franklin "Bud" Ledbetter, Jr.), what's his first name? WN: Oh, heavens, I don't know, Ledbetter.

But somebody will, maybe. LJ: It's probably in that book, Hell on the Border. That's the book that was written. But anyway, grandpa (it is believed she is referring to her father here) was assistant to this Ledbetter. He was United States Marshal. And they were officers in Fort Smith. We didn't have anything here in Indian Territory then. I should have told you I was born in Indian Territory, too. WN: Yes! Indeed! LJ: And so, and mama, she was a full blood. And she didn't… WN: She was a full blood Euchee? LJ: Yes. And she didn't know how to talk English when she married my grandfather (it's believed she means her father). She had to learn to talk Euchee (it is believed she means she had to learn English). But Papa himself

was raised among the Euchees, but I don't know who raised him. And he could talk fluent Euchee, talk better Euchee than a lot of the full bloods. WN: Oh, how wonderful. LJ: He had a friend that lived over here, east of us, his name was Jim Miller, and he was a full blood Creek, and he couldn't talk English. So he and Grandpa (it is believed she is talking about her father) would sit there on the porch, and Miller would talk Creek, and then Grandpa would answer him in English. And they’d just talk, you know, just like anybody else. And I don't know what else I can tell you. WN: Well, tell me how many brothers and sisters you had. LJ: Well, I have three brothers and three sisters. WN: Can you name them? LJ: Mm-hmm. Abraham Allen

was the oldest one. He served in World War I and Joe (Joseph Allen) was the next one. WN: Do you have, again, do you know their birth dates at all, Ms. Johnson? LJ: You know, if I had my old Bible, I could just tell you, but I really don't know. WN: Okay. LJ: And then my, well, my last, the baby brother, though, was born in 1900. I know his birth date. And... WN: What was his name? LJ: Jesse (James Allen). WN: Jesse. LJ: And in the middle was Joe, Joe Allen, guess you've read it. WN: Oh yes, Joe. LJ: And those, and then I have two sisters (based on research, it is believed there is an oldest sister named Ada Allen not mentioned). WN: Okay, and what are their names? LJ: Ella Allen Burgess and Ann Coppinger. WN: Are they still living? LJ: Yes. WN: And how old are they? LJ: All three of us girls are alive and all the brothers are gone.

WN: Well, how old was your mother when she died? LJ: She was ninety-two. WN: Ninety-two. LJ: And grandpa (it’s believed she is talking about her father) was only about eighty-two when he died. WN: Now are they buried in that cemetery on the... LJ: Allen Cemetery (ph). WN: Was that your home all, is that where you were born, Ms. Johnson? LJ: Where the old house is now. WN: Where the old Allen house is. LJ: On Skull Creek. WN: On Skull Creek, got it. LJ: And the way Skull Creek got its name, after the Civil War, there were so many skulls on, on, on the creek. WN: Oh my. LJ: That they named the creek Skull Creek. And that's where Skull Creek got its name. WN: [Indecipherable]. Ha! Well once you told me a story of how Bristow got its name, and do you know that James Neighbors (ph) told me that Mr. Longacre

told him the same story about the peddler that you did. So, but would you tell that story to me again? LJ: Well, I guess it was, I don't know what year, the railroad came through, but anyway, he had a little camp right about where oh that's a [indecipherable]. Abraham, what was it? WN: Oh, you mean down on J&J? The J&J… LJ: Yes, I think it's J&J. But he had his camp right about there. Just a little camp. And I guess he was just a, a drifter, more or less. And he stopped there for a while. Of course, Bristow wasn't named. So then they gave the Bristow its name. His name was a,

can't think of his first name. But anyway, that was his surname, [indecipherable] Bristow. That's where Bristow got its name. WN: And you told me once that your father had a watch made by him for you. LJ: Oh yes, he did. He was a silversmith, more or less, I guess. So he...grandpa was friendly with him and so he decided he'd make grandpa a watch if grandpa would give him the silver. So, grandpa gave him the silver, what the denominations were. But anyway, and then right around the near the crystal, he had a gold band clear around it, and that's all it was to it. Oh, there's a big watch or something about it like that. WN: Oh my word. LJ: Well, I think maybe Raymond has it now. I never

did ask, but that's how Bristow got its name anyway. WN: That's an interesting highlight. Now let's go back to when you were a little girl. Tell me some of the things that you remember when you were a child. Some of the things that you did or... LJ: Well, we were just like all the other children just growing up. Mostly went swimming every day. WN: In Skull Creek? LJ: Yes, in Skull Creek. WN: Well, tell me, how, how does the creek compare now to the way it was when you were a young girl. LJ: Well, there was a good stream there and there's a lot of rocks where the road is now. And that's about all there is to it. WN: Has it filled with sand and everything since you were young or is it just about the same? LJ: You know, I haven't seen Skull Creek in a long time. We cross the bridge and we don't look down.

WN: Well, now let me tell you, I ask you, you said Skull Creek got it's name from all the skulls. How did Chicken Creek get its name? Do you know? LJ: I don't know. WN: Well now where did you go to school, Ms. Johnson? LJ: Well, I went to Euchee Boarding School in Sapulpa. WN: In Sapulpa? LJ: And I was there until about, well, I went to Euchee Boarding School. Then the next time I went to school, I went to Haskell Institute at the... WN: At Kansas? LJ: At Lawrence, Kansas. And then, I went for a while in Bacone after I came back from Haskell, and that's all the

only places that I've been. And when we were growing up, of course, everybody had a horse, we all rode. And Grandpa, of course, raised cattle anyway. And, and Grandpa always had three or four cowboys, you know, hands. When I was young, I was the only one though, girl, growing up. I was the only tomboy. My other two sisters were not tomboys, but I was, and I rode and roped cattle with the cowboys. WN: That's how Majel (Majel K. Frye), that's how come Majel is so good at it, isn't it? LJ: I guess so, and, well, it's surprising how she is. She didn't know one cow from another. And then when she moved over there, why then she got in to do the

business, you know. And she's just a full hand. WN: It would be hard to fool her on anything, wouldn't it? LJ: Yes, and, oh, right now she's having a lot of trouble. Young heifers are dropping calves. And she said she had one that had, now you're not reporting that. WN: No, I won't report that. LJ: And she said one little heifer, well, I guess she’s about three-years-old. Her first calf, she had twins. WN: Oh. LJ: And it's very unusual for Angus cows to have twins. Anyway, she had twins and Majel had to see that they got, they could nurse, you know, and everything. Then she had another one that wouldn't take her calf. Majel had to just stand over her, and I think she had to have a bottle or two.

And I asked her the other day how she got along, and she said she's getting along all right. And then she had a big old bull that was sick. So, she said she had to go out and see about him every day. And she had the vet out there. WN: Oh, I don't know how she does all of that. LJ: I don't either, but she does. WN: One day I was out there, and I saw her kick off hay just like she was lifting out a, I don't know what. I think she's a... LJ: Majel had never did anything like that before, but she's in school all the time. WN: I think that's wonderful. Now, let's back up to your schooling. Now tell me what you can remember most about your mother and your father, about their appearance and, and… LJ: About their parents? WN: Uh-huh, uh-huh. LJ: I didn't know either one of my grandparents. WN: You didn't know either one of your grandparents?

LJ: My father, the Euchees were a camped at the…what town? WN: Okemah?. LJ: No, this camp? No. WN: Oh, the camp. LJ: Where I asked you to go and look for some, oh, something about Grandpa, you know? WN: Oh, at Fort Gibson. LJ: Yeah, Fort Gibson. WN: Oh yeah, Fort Gibson. LJ: The Euchees were stationed there at Fort Gibson, I think, for protection. And Grandfather, I mean, Papa's father was a man in the army. He was an Irishman. He was straight from Ireland. And I guess he got friendly with the grandmother. I don't know whether he got married or not. But anyway, she was Euchee and French. She was half French and she was half Euchee. And when the war was over,

he was going back to Ireland. And he wanted to take his wife with him. But her parents, her people wouldn't let her go. So, she stayed. And he went back to Ireland. Grandpa nearly [indecipherable] paid it off. And that's a... WN: Do you have any pictures of her? Do you remember what she looked like or anything? LJ: Her name was Lucinda though. WN: It was? So that's how Lucinda... LJ: Grandpa named me after his mother. (It is believed she is referring to her father, not her grandpa.) And then my mother, she was just... I think she was an orphan, too. And some of my relatives raised her, and she'd never, she's never, she'd never gone

to school, and she never did get to go to school. And she learned to talk English after seeing [indecipherable]. It's about all, but she was just a full blood. WN: Well, what did, did she look like you? I mean, do you look like your mother, or? LJ: I got a picture of her right on that little folder right there, on the table. WN: This, down here, this? LJ: No, on the table. WN: Oh, on the table. Oh, right here. Oh, I'd like to see that. LJ: I have two pictures of her. [Indecipherable]. WN: Let me get my, let me get my glasses. Where's my purse? Now this is the picture of your mother. LJ: And these are my three brothers. WN: All right now, which porch is that? Is that that back porch down there? LJ: Is that what? WN: Is that the back porch down there at the house? LJ: Oh yeah, and here's that water

well. WN: Oh yeah, the well, yeah. LJ: And this is our washing machine back there. WN: And who are these three men? Do you know who those are? LJ: Oh, they're my brothers. WN: Those are your three brothers? This is, is that Jess? Joe? LJ: That's Jess. WN: That's Jess. LJ: And this one is Joe.. And this is Jim. WN: Oh, that's a wonderful picture of your mother. She was very petite, wasn't she? LJ: I have one better than that. This is in Alaska, too. That's Alvin Lee (Johnson) on Bartender (ph). WN: Oh, I remember Alvin Lee riding that horse so well. LJ: He loved it. WN: He loved to ride, didn't he? LJ: Yeah, he did. WN: Oh, is that, LJ: That's Lucinda right there. WN: Oh! LJ: And this

is Eddie, that's... WN: Ed Porter's son? LJ: The last son, huh? WN: Oh, isn't she pretty? LJ: Yeah, this is Ed Porter and Lou right in the end there. WN: Lucinda, isn't it? Ed Porter looks so much like Lucian (Lucian A. Tiger) there. LJ: That's Gus (Johnson). WN: Yeah, that's Gus. LJ: He was going to John Gould's (ph) funeral. He was all dressed up. So, Lucian happened to be here and he said, well ,I'll just take this picture while he is dressed up. WN: That's a good picture, too. LJ: It is a good picture of Gus. WN: I always liked Gus. LJ: That's about the last picture he ever had. This is Jerry (ph). WN: Yes, that’s Jerry. LJ: And this is a picture that I like of Mama. WN: Oh, how wonderful. LJ: You see her garden plow? WN: Oh, yes, and look... LJ: She was going out to the garden and she has her bonnet on. WN: Oh, that is so

cute, Bill. Look at this darling picture. [Inaudible] Boy, she had wonderful posture, didn't she? LJ: Oh, yes, she was straight as she could be. WN: Oh, that is, that is fantastic. LJ: Those are the only pictures I think I have of Mama. WN: Oh, that is so neat! LJ: She's so straight, did you see how straight she was? WN: Yes! LJ: Oh, she must have been in her 60s then. WN: Now, she had beautiful posture. LJ: Yes, she did. WN: But she was short, though. LJ: No, she was tall. WN: She was tall? LJ: She was about 5'6. WN: In this picture back here, she looks so short, wherever that picture was. LJ: She was taller than each one of them. None of us girls were as tall as she is. WN: Well, I just, I think that's such a precious picture.

LJ: I like it, too. WN: You ought to have that enlarged sometime. LJ: Oh, I think I should, huh. WN: There's that Majel, she's something else. Oh, that's wonderful. Alright, now then, Ms. Johnson, tell me anything that you can about what life was like, like when you went to town, or how did you get to town? LJ: Well, we got to town, we kids got to town maybe once a year. See, we had to go in the hack from home to Bristow and that was six miles, and we just had dirt roads. And one Fourth of July, all of us kids got in the hack. You know, those two, two seated things, all [indecipherable]. So, we met a we met a wagon coming

in. We were going in, and we had to cut off the road. And I wish I had that picture. And I thought the hack was going to do a turnover. So, I jumped. And then they have them, [indecipherable], oh what did you stop your wagon with? WN: Break? LJ: Yes, uh-huh, breaks. I started to jump out. I caught my skirt, it was a wide skirt, caught it on the, on the brake, and just threw that whole thing out. And there I was, I was going to the 4th of July picnic in Bristow. And they had a, I don't know what year it was, but anyway, when they had their 4th of July picnic, why, they had

[indecipherable], no they weren't [indecipherable] either. They had platforms, I guess you would call it. The [indecipherable] had their dance floor, you know. And then it falls over, the niggers had theirs. So, they all had a good time I guess. Well that's one of the, one of the trips. Then one time, I remember, I was there along, I was about seven, I guess. Grandpa was on the grand jury in Sapulpa in Okmulgee in Muskogee. Of course, you had to go in his hack, you know. So, we went and we stayed all night, one night, with some friends that lived between Muskogee and Bristow.

The next day, we got to Muskogee. And they had what's called a camp house, I guess. You could rent them. And we stayed there maybe about a week. And grandpa was on that grand jury, and then last night, he said we could go to the courthouse if we wanted to. So we, Mama and Joe and and their baby [indecipherable], we all went to the courthouse. They were trying a woman, she's, for killing her neighbor over some goslings. WN: Oh my. LJ: And you know, it just, oh it was about 15 years ago, this is the one that had killed the other one.

She said she didn't have any place to go. So, she stayed there in McAlester all this time. They told her that she could stay there if she wanted to. And then I, well, I, I've been over 10 or 15 or 20 years ago where she was pardoned. She had lived there all this time. WN: My word. LJ: I don't know where she went after that. She was an old woman though anyway by then. WN: Wow, that was a long trip to make to serve on the jury, wasn't it? LJ: Yes. WN: Oh, well now, tell me about some of the early Indian things that you used to go to, and I remember last summer, I, they honored you at the stomp dance at Kellyville. Did you always go to the green corn dances there, or did they have...tell, tell me a little about the Indian celebrations they used to have. LJ: Well,

the, I'll tell you about the celebration first. This, then we were going, see we were in Indian Territory, and then right across the line at Stroud, was, you know, Oklahoma. WN: Old Oklahoma. LJ: And Grandpa decided we would go to the Stroud and buy some liquor. He bought them in five-gallon jugs. These white jugs with the brown top on them. And he bought two, two bottles. Five gallon, I mean five gallons apiece. Well, Grandpa didn't drink. And Grandpa never drank at all. But he was a medicine man and he bought that for medicine. And in the summertime he would call what he was a purifying us, I guess.

He'd made a lot of medicine, you know, outside in the yard. And then he built a little [indecipherable]. He’d put us in there and then pour hot water over. Oh, he had some big ol irons there. Poured hot water over the those pipes and we were inside in the, in clothes. He was sweating us out. WN: Oh my word. LJ: And we sweated too. And let's see what else can I tell you. WN: You stayed healthy that way? LJ: Yes. WN: Oh, you didn't have to drink anything did you? LJ: Oh yes, we had herbs. WN: Herbs. LJ: And he always gave liquor. Well, he'd give us a, I mean he'd put that with the… WN: Herbs? LJ: With the herbs. That was our, that was our

drinks. That was our medicine, rather. WN: Well, you didn't have doctors, so you had to do something. LJ: No, no, no. No, there was no one there. I guess when Lucian was coming, we were living up there on the hill, we were there. And we had Dr. Reynolds (Ernest W. Reynolds). Old Dr. Reynolds. WN: I remember old Dr. Reynolds. LJ: Where he came in. But I have a [indecipherable]. But Lucian was already there then. The doctor was late, but he came in to a [indecipherable]. He had to keep, she had to keep me warm. I think Lucian's birthday is in January. So, it was pretty cold at home. He stuck it on my back, keeping me warm and everything. But we were all healthy.

I guess due to grandpa sweating us out in the spring and giving us herbs all the time. WN: But now, how did you dress when you were a young girl, Ms Johnson? Did your mother make your clothes? LJ: Mom sewed and made everything for us. WN: She had an old treadle machine, or what did she do? LJ: She had a machine, but she would stay up until twelve o'clock at night, sewing for us kids, cause there was quite a few of us. She'd make the boys pants, just like they were bought. WN: My word. LJ: And she made all of our dresses, too, you know, calico dresses. And every Christmas we had a new dress, us girls had a new dress. And the boys had pants, you know, and everything. WN: Did you have, did you go to church,

Indian church, back in those days? LJ: No we didn’t have an Indian church. WN: You didn't have an Indian church then. LJ: No. And then, well, we'd go to stomp dances. Grandpa didn't care about stomp dances. Mama would load us up all in this hack, you know, took us kids to stomp dances anyway. WN: Where were the stop dances around in these days? LJ: Well, there was one on Sand Creek. And then there was one, stomp ground, just west of Kellyville, up there in the hills and it’s still there. WN: Is that the one that they had the green corn dance in? LJ: Yeah. WN: The same place almost. They moved it up just a little bit, didn't they? But now this one on Sand Creek, was it, whereabouts on Sand Creek? Do you remember? LJ: Well, it was pretty close to where Grandma Tiger's house was. Just about where the, her graveyard

is now. WN: Uh-Huh. But now, did you ever go down to Nuyaka or any place like that? LJ: No. WN: Those were all… LJ: That’s Creek territory. WN: Creek territory. Yep. That's right. It is, isn't it? LJ: Yeah. Oh we was just like any other children did. Any other child, you know. Went swimming every day in the summertime. WN: Who taught you to swim? LJ: I guess my older brother. Well, Grandpa used to go with us to take us swimming. On Skull Creek, you know. WN: Yeah. Did you fish down there too? Were there fish? LJ: Oh yes. Well, Skull Creek was a good stream. It was deep. WN: Oh. LJ: And after [indecipherable] they don't have the water and you know. WN: But now, do you remember the, when Slick was so big and everything,

you know, when the town came into being, did that make any difference in your life? LJ: No. Yeah, I was already married then, wasn't I? WN: I don't know, it seemed like Slick came into being about 1920 or 21 or something like that. LJ: No, I remember Slick, but we never go to Slick very much. One time I was in that old Cafe there on Main Street, and I guess I decided I was hungry, so I went into this cafe, you know, and got myself a sandwich and there were two other young men sitting just little ways from me. They were talking about the [indecipherable], and I was, I had it on my thing and I've already forgotten what they said. I thought, well, let them talk if they want to.

WN: Do you remember any particular stores in Bristow when you'd go? Do you remember? LJ: We never did get to Bristow but maybe about once a year. WN: Did you… LJ: I remember when the Vogel, WN: Vogel Dry Goods? LJ: Yes, was there. And the West. Jim, WN: Charles or Jim West? LJ: Charles. Nellie, Nellie West. WN: Nellie West. LJ: I knew them, and those were about the only stores they had in Bristow when I was growing up, I guess. WN: Do you remember the, the, when they had board sidewalks and mud in the street or any of that? LJ: Oh yes, that's what they had, just board sidewalks. [Indecipherable]

I guess, well, the First State Bank, bank was on the east side. There's an old eating joint there now. And then across was the National Bank. And then over on the other side was The Groom’s bank. What was it? WN: I don't know. LJ: The Groom’s bank. WN: That's the one that they had a lot of trouble with. Went broke or something, didn't it? LJ: I don't why they couldn’t work. I don't know. But anyway. We had two banks at one time. We had the State Bank, that was Corey's (ph) bank, and then the one right across there then was

Jim Boom’s (ph) bank, and then the Jones Bank, you know, it was on the other part, that’s about all I can think about that. WN: Do you remember the cotton gins? LJ: Oh, yes. I think we had three cotton gins there at one time. And the farmers, you know, after they got their cotton picked, why, there would be just the rows of red birds. WN: Oh yes. LJ: The farmers taking their cotton to Bristow, you know. WN: You had a thrash out there too, a brown thrash. LJ: Oh. WN: Thrash or thrasher or something. Isn't that a, that's a, that's a thrush, wasn't it? LJ: I guess it was, it wasn't a red bird, but I’ve got some red birds around here. WN: Yes, I, I saw a couple of those red birds there. Do you remember the flu epidemic that they had, or any

smallpox epidemic, or? LJ: Yes, when I was a, we were a kid, but somehow, we didn't, any of us get smallpox. But all others and all around, they were just all sick. WN: Well, now how much land did you own back in those days? You had a lot of people, you had tenants on your farm? LJ: Oh yes. Well grandpa had a lot of his children all right around that white house. And we had tenants all over the place. WN: Now you had, you had slaves? Did they have slaves back in those days? LJ: No, because we always had a lot of colored people farming, you know, and… WN: Well, now, what is the story on that little house right there that I painted that old picture of? LJ: That, that's the little house

right here. WN: Yeah, that was right there. LJ: Well, no, that was well, you know, there were a lot of colored people called Freedmen's. They were allotted to, you know. WN: Oh, the Freedmen were allotted. LJ: They were allotted to help with the, with the Creeks. And that house there was a man by the name of Hector Beaver built that house right there, just as you came in the gate, there… WN: The chimney still stands and the cistern still stands there. But I made the, the storm cellar. It's not the same. I put that storm cellar in, but it looked like a, you know, it looked like a gravestone marker, and so I took it out. I, I just moved the rocks around a little bit, cause... LJ: And then it had a little porch on there too, you know. WN: Yeah, and the little porch is down in the back. It's kind of falling down, but I didn't know if there was a porch on that front part or not. LJ: Yeah, there was one right in the front. WN: Well, that porch had fallen off when I, by the time I saw… LJ: There’s another porch

on the back where the kitchen is. WN: Oh, uh-huh. LJ: Well, that's about all I know about that house. Well, they were what you call Freedman’s that built that house. And then later on, I don't remember what year it was, I don't know whether it was the government or what, moved a lot of these people, these colored people, and they moved them to Canada. I was just small, I just remember. There's a lot of our tenants that had to go, too. WN: The government made them leave, then. LJ: Yes, I don't know why. And I don't know what [indecipherable]. WN: Let me back up a little bit. Do you ever remember Bristow being called the Woodland Queen? LJ: Why would it be called Woodland Queen? WN: Well, I don't know. I hear

that, you know, I read these stories that Bristow at one time was called the Woodland Queen. And I've heard people say, no, that's not true. There was nothing, they'd never heard of the name Woodland Queen. LJ: And then Kellyville, Kellyville was, it’s older than Bristow, I think. It has a, Kellyville was built in 18 something. WN: Yeah, 18, I think I looked, what was it, Bill, did we say 18? LJ: You know, it's on the highway. WN: Yeah. 1886. 1886 or 18... LJ: Oh, yes, I remember it was, it was just two years old, I remember Kellyville was just two years older than I am. And that was on the only trading post you know that we had there. WN: Oh, I didn't know that. LJ: And

this man, his name was James Kelly, had a trading post there. And, of course, all the Indians, the Euchees, just traded with him. He was a nice looking, dignified looking. I think he was an Englishman that started Kellyville there. And then over across Deep Fork, they had another trading post while a stagecoach came through there. WN: Oh, now that's something I meant to ask you about. Can you tell me kind of where the stagecoach went here in Bristow? LJ: Oh, well I don't know where. WN: I mean where did it… LJ: That's what I don’t know, see, I don’t know where it came from, Texas somewhere, I expect. WN: But they did have a, whereabouts on Deep Fork, do you know… LJ: Well, you know where, you go through Slick, and then across, where

the bridge is. WN: Yeah, where the bridge is, down by Golden Crenshaw's (ph) place, down in there? LJ: Yeah. Only you cross the bridge in there about where Paul Montgomery lives now. WN: Oh, Paul Montgomery? And that's about where the stage... LJ: Oh, that's where the stagecoach was. And his name was, I don't know what his first name was. The police that was known as Phillipsburg (ph). WN: Phillipsburg (ph). LJ: Mm-hmm. See his name last name was Phillipsburg (ph). And that was a, the another stage stop, and then it went to Kellyville, and then on to Red Fork. WN: Oh! LJ: They were all stage stops. WN: Stage stops. And do you ever remember seeing one of the stage stops? How did they look? Were they just houses, or what were they? LJ: Well, just kind of a house, you know, maybe a porch a [indecipherable]. WN: Did somebody stay there all the time? Well, James Hill stayed at his place

and this man Phillips, I guess he stayed there too, just in an old one room house, maybe had a little store there. WN: What, can you describe a stage coach for me? What did they, did they look like they do in the movies or… LJ: Yeah, something, they’re just about the same. WN: And how many horses did they usually have pulling them? LJ: All the, those that came through here just had two horses plus, I mean the ones that I saw. I never did [indecipherable] them. WN: Yeah. Did you ever ride one? LJ: No, I never did. But I was lucky, then when Phillips was selling out, he was going to quit the business, I guess. Grandpa was going over there, he was going on horseback. And I was Grandpa's tail, so I wanted to go and he said, well, get on. So, I got on the back of the saddle. We went

to Phillipsburg. That's quite a ride. WN: Yes. LJ: And so, then this, Mr. Phillips, why, he had, it was a cute little churn here or something, a little old churn about that big. It held just about a gallon of milk. And it had a turn on it. And he gave that to me. And I, I had it until about, well I got, I still had it when we moved here, I know. And Majel was throwing away things and I think she threw it away. And I asked her about it and she said no she didn't throw it away. But I think I knew where, I have an idea of where she threw it, and I keep telling myself I'm going to go back there and see if I can find my churn, but I never have gone. WN: Now when did you move to this house right here, Ms. Johnson? Did you, you built this house, didn't you?

LJ: Well, Porter (Tiger) and I moved here in about 1910, I expect. And I'll tell you the [indecipherable] it was on these ready cut houses. WN: Like you ordered from Sears and all that? LJ: Yeah. Well, it had the kitchen, the dining room, and the living room and two bedrooms then, so I just kept adding on. Well, it's beautiful. WN: Did you marry, you married then when you were very young? LJ: No, I was eighteen when Porter and I got married. WN: And then you had Majel (Majel K. Frye) and Lucian (Lucian A. Tiger). LJ: No, I had Maj, I had Majel. And then my, the second

baby was a boy. WN: Oh. LJ: His name was Daniel. And then... WN: Did he die as an infant? LJ: Well, no. He was about...