Helen Marie Varner

RS: This is Regan Siler with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. This interview is part of the historical society’s ongoing oral history project. The date is July 18, 2024 and I’m sitting here with Helen Marie Varner and her daughter-in-law, Cheryl Varner, at the Bristow Library Annex. She’s going to tell us a little bit about her life and her history living in the Bristow area. Can you please state your full name?

HV: Helen Marie Varner.

RS: And do I have permission to record this interview?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay. Can you tell us when and where you were born?

HV: Yes, in Sapulpa, Oklahoma, of course, twenty-five miles from here.

RS: Okay, and what’s your date of birth?

HV: July 3, 1937.

RS: So, you just had a birthday then.

HV: I did. I’m 87.

RS: I have to say that whenever I learned 00:01:00that, and you gave me your birthdate when we had our phone interview, I thought you gave me the date wrong. I thought, there’s no way she can be 87 years old!

HV: I am!

RS: So, I think you are doing good!

HV: Thank you.

RS: Can you tell us about the people in your family? Let’s start with your parents. What are your parents’ full names?

HV: My dad’s name was Gilbert Johnston [Gilbert Rossie “Gib” Johnston 10/8/1913-10/30/1982] and mother’s name was Helen Lucille Bristol Johnston [Helen Lucille “Sassy” Bristol Johnston 8/8/1920-8/27/2007].

RS: Okay, and I understand that did your dad go by Gib?

HV: Gib, yeah.

RS: I have his date of birth as 10/8/1913?

HV: That’s right.

RS: Okay. And then your mom, she went by Sassy?

HV: Uh-huh.

RS: Okay. And I have her birthdate as 8/8/1920?

HV: Yes, that’s right.

RS: Okay. And then do you have any siblings?

HV: Yes. My brother, Sam Everett Johnston, and he’s in Sapulpa at the Farmer’s Feed Store.

RS: Okay, okay.

HV: And he’s been there about thirty years. Since 1980, 00:02:00in the 1980’s.

RS: So, you just have one sibling?

HV: One brother.

RS: Okay. What type of work did your parents do?

HV: My dad was road foreman, a road supervisor, first for, well, he mowed the highway with a team of horses.

RS: Oh, my gosh.

HV: Then he went to work for Buster Hudgins (ph), who was the county commissioner for Creek County, and then he went to work for Mr. Barnhart (ph) who was also a county commissioner. So, he was the road boss for two different people. And then he bought the sale barn in Okmulgee [Oklahoma] in 1964.

RS: And how long did he have the sale barn in Okmulgee?

HV: He sold it in December of ’69.

RS: Okay. And did your mom work outside the home?

HV: No, she didn’t. But now, she ran the café both at Okmulgee and here in Bristow.

RS: Okay. Growing up, did you have family that lived nearby you?

HV: Oh, yeah. Both grandparents, 00:03:00my aunts and uncles. It’s always been very close.

RS: Very close. So, grandparents on both sides?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay, and aunts and uncles. Has your family, well, obviously, you started off in Sapulpa, so how long has your family been in the Bristow area?

HV: We moved here in 1970.

RS: 1970.

HV: Except for Sam and Kay. They still live in Sapulpa.

RS: Okay, so tell me why they moved here.

HV: My dad popped off and sold the sale barn at Okmulgee.

RS: So, he popped off? Explain that further that he popped off.

HV: He popped off. Somebody said what will you take 00:04:00for it? And my dad opened his mouth and said it, and he said sold.

RS: And they took him up on it?

HV: You don’t back out of your word. No matter how bad you want to.

RS: Right, right. So, then from there, he was like, I need another sale barn?

HV: Yes. Yeah.

RS: And he found Bristow?

HV: And he found Bristow. It had been, I was trying to think the other day. I don’t know if Doyle Matthews was involved, Mr. Foster and Leon Devine. And I really don’t remember who actually owned it at the time that dad bought it.

RS: So, you were how old around this time?

HV: Whatever.

RS: None of us are good at math.

HV: Let’s see, I think, you caught me off guard. I think I was 27 when I went to work at CV: How old were you at the glass plant? That was before, wasn’t it?

HV: Yeah, I was 19 when I went to work there at Barlett-Collins.

RS: So, you were a teenager, then, when your dad HV: Well, 00:05:00no, I was married with three kids by the time dad bought it.

RS: Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, all right. So, let’s talk about your early childhood and your home life. We’re going to dig real deep now.

HV: Okay.

RS: Do you remember any of your favorite toys from your childhood or favorite games that you played?

HV: Well, I was like a tomboy, so we had little holsters and guns and we played cowboys and Indians.

RS: Oh! That’s funny!

HV: And rode horses. And I had dolls. I had one friend that we played dolls with.

RS: Did you have chores that you were expected to do.

HV: Basically, we had to help milk cows if he had a cow to milk. My dad also dealt in livestock. So, if you had some goats to feed, you fed the goats. Whatever we were told that day.

RS: So, basically, you just had to help around your farm doing whatever needed to be done.

HV: Yeah.

RS: But you did have chores. 00:06:00HV: Yeah.

RS: You did have stuff you had to do every day.

HV: We had draw water from the well.

RS: Oh gosh!

HV: Drank water out of a pail with a dipper. Had a bathtub in the kitchen and Sam took the bath first and then me and then momma and then dad.

RS: Oh, my goodness!

HV: Same water.

RS: Oh, my goodness!

CV: Can you imagine?!

RS: NO! I can’t imagine! So, growing up, so this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma] whenever you were this age. So, did you have friends that would come over and play or were you too busy with your chores and working around HV: No, no, my dad always had people there, a lot of times for supper. Or you had hard hands that were there my mom fed at noon. So, yeah, we had friends that came over. While they would play pitch or whatever, we would play outside, just like I said 00:07:00cops and robbers or that kind of stuff.

RS: Okay. Did you have any favorite activities or hobbies as a child?

HV: Barrel racing.

RS: So, you were a barrel racer?

HV: Not the best, but I was one because my dad, if you had a good horse, and somebody wanted to buy it, he sold it. So, I was put on a lot of different horses, a lot of different times.

RS: So, how long would you say you barrel raced?

HV: Oh, I was probably 15 until, no, I would have been younger than that. Twelve to eighteen.

RS: All right. Did you collect anything as a child?

HV: No.

RS: You were always outside playing, weren’t you? So, let’s talk about your school life. Where did you first attend school?

HV: Okay, Lonestar School, two-room, outside toilet. We had one through, let’s see, one through four and then five through eight.

RS: Okay, and then from there 00:08:00where did you go?

HV: Sapulpa High.

RS: To Sapulpa High School. Okay. So, did you, you graduated from Sapulpa, right?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay, all right. Did you have any influential teachers that you can recall that might have made an impact on you during that time?

HV: No, not in high school. Mr. and Mrs. Sykes (ph) were teachers at Lonestar, and I’d say they were strict, kind, honest and people looked up to them.

RS: And, so, what did they teach? What classes did they teach you?

HV: The whole thing.

RS: Oh, okay. So, they just kind of did it all.

HV: Yeah, the lady teacher taught the 00:09:00smaller classes. And then Mr. Sykes (ph) taught the older kids.

RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember how you got to school as a youngster?

HV: Mom and daddy drove us. A time or two we rode a horse but not often, and quite a few times we’d have to walk home from school.

RS: Okay, and how far of a walk was that?

HV: Probably two and a half miles.

RS: Oh, my goodness. You know kids nowadays would be like what in the world?! So, like, in high school, were you a member of any clubs or organizations?

HV: No.

RS: Busy on the farm, I’m guessing?

HV: Probably, not really, but just, basically, didn’t really fit in, because I was the country girl. So, I really didn’t RS: Weren’t involved as much?

HV: Hmm-mmm. In nothing.

RS: So, did you enjoy school or?

HV: Oh, well, I always made good grades in school.

RS: Okay, but you just, would you have rather HV: But not outside, no outside activities at all.

RS: Okay, all right. Did you have a favorite subject?

HV: Math. 00:10:00RS: Math?! Really? Okay. That’s interesting.

HV: Fit right in.

RS: That was my least favorite subject.

CV: Mine, too. And then we had the sale barn.

RS: Yeah, exactly! So, I know you kind of mentioned your house. Can you tell me about the house that you grew up in? Like what it was like.

HV: Well, it was just a four-room house and we had a wood stove, but we also had one gas stove, and we had heavy blankets, and momma used to heat bricks to put at our feet in the winter time.

RS: Wow!

HV: No water. I’ve already told you we had water out of the buckets.

RS: So, how long did it take before you had inside plumbing?

HV: Fourteen.

RS: You were fourteen?!

HV: Mmm-hmm.

RS: Oh, my goodness. I bet that was like the greatest day ever!

HV: Heaven!

RS: So, did they have to, so I guess you had an outhouse?

HV: Oh, yeah, a two-holer.

RS: A two-holer?

HV: Have you ever heard of a two-holer?

RS: I have not heard of a two-holer.

HV: Well, it was a two-holer.

RS: We’ll let everybody figure 00:11:00out what that means. Oh, that’s funny! So, then I guess at that time, did they, once you got indoor plumbing, did they build a bathroom in your house?

HV: Well, we actually moved into a different house.

RS: Oh, okay.

HV: Because the house that we had lived in was a rental. And then my mom and dad bought the house, and then put the bathroom in.

RS: Okay, so did you have your own room?

HV: Yes.

RS: You did? Okay. And where did you spend most of your time?

HV: Outside.

RS: You were mainly out, but that’s the general consensus of probably your generation is we were always outside.

HV: Yeah.

RS: Okay, so what were 00:12:00mealtimes like in your family? Did you get together every night and sit down to eat dinner?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay, so, was your mom a fabulous cook?

HV: Oh, she was a great cook.

RS: Is that where, I mean, obviously, we all know that you’re a heck of a cook, too. Is that where you HV: Yeah, my mom, and eventually, Jerry’s mom. She was a great cook, too.

RS: Did they, did you HV: And my grandmas.

RS: Your grandmas.

HV: Yeah, both of them.

RS: Were you interested when you were young in cooking? Or did they kind of drag you in there and teach you?

HV: Oh, I don’t think it was any of a matter of, you were in there and you did whatever mother said. And you did the dishes like she said, so, wasn’t a matter of whether you wanted to do it or not.

RS: But on the cooking side of it, do you think that’s where, did you find interest in cooking as a young person or did it take until you got older? I mean, obviously, I know you had to help when you were young, but HV: I don’t really remember, but I think I probably 00:13:00just always enjoyed it.

RS: Always enjoyed cooking. Okay. Do you remember having a favorite meal or a favorite recipe?

HV: Roast beef.

RS: Roast beef, really?

HV: Yeah.

RS: Okay.

HV: Yeah, that’s what we liked.

RS: And do you cook that same roast beef?

HV: Still do.

RS: Still do.

HV: Day before yesterday.

CV: Uh-huh!

RS: Okay, well, thinking about, okay, so when did you, do you remember how old you were when you moved to Bristow.

HV: I don’t remember how old I was but RS: Roughly, so were you HV: I was married with three kids RS: Okay, so you were married with HV: Well, Sam and Jeff was in the first grade.

RS: Okay, so, thinking back to town life around Bristow, do have memories of favorite community activities like Western Heritage 00:14:00Days, county fairs, day camps, stuff like that? Do you have any memories of that? Even if it’s with your kids.

HV: Of course, the kids got into sports immediately. But at the sale barn, we had Ben Camp, T. Reid McCollough’s boys, all these kids worked for us starting out. And, so, there was always people around and all of that was fun. And you got involved with the parents in that way.

RS: Okay, all right. Do you remember some of the biggest and/or most popular businesses around town?

HV: JC Penneys was in the old Root’s building.

RS: We had a JC Penney?

HV: Oh, you did.

CV: It was a big one.

HV: Yeah, upstairs and downstairs. Really nice.

RS: It was in which building?

HV: The Root’s 00:15:00 building.

RS: I don’t know why I don’t know that.

HV: The Root’s building.

RS: I should have known that.

HV: And Strong’s had a shoe store. Then we had Mrs. Stanford who had the dress shop, and she had nice things, too.

CV: And Harvat’s Jewelry.

HV: Oh, Harvat’s! Oh, yeah. And they were, and then we had Silver’s Jewelry. We had Anthony’s for a little while.

CV: Montgomery Ward.

HV: Yeah, we had Montgomery Ward. Oklahoma Tire and Supply.

RS: It seems like during my generation everything faded away. There was a lot going on then.

HV: Walmart didn’t help.

RS: Yeah, it didn’t help anything. Did you have a favorite place to eat out?

HV: We didn’t eat out very much.

RS: It didn’t sound like you needed to. It sounds like all the cooks were at your house.

HV: They probably were. We, basically, ate at home.

RS: Always ate at home.

HV: Or at the sale barn.

RS: So, as far as growing up and as a teenager, do you remember getting 00:16:00to shop for clothes? Did you family make your clothes?

HV: You really want me to tell you this?

RS: I really want you to tell me. I really do!

HV: Okay, so we were in the country. And, so, my dad would buy feed sacks that were the same. And then my mom would make me clothes out of those feed sacks.

RS: Are you serious?

HV: I’m dead serious.

RS: That had to have been terribly uncomfortable, though.

HV: Oh, it wasn’t uncomfortable.

RS: Did she line them with anything?

HV: No, but well, you wash it and it was just like fabric.

RS: Well, I guess that’s true.

HV: They had some nice fabrics back then.

RS: Oh, my goodness.

HV: And you did that RS: So, how often would you say you got new clothes? 00:17:00HV: Oh, she was buying that doing that all the time.

RS: Oh really?

HV: Yeah.

RS: So, quite a seamstress, then?

HV: Yeah, she was.

RS: Wow! And how long would you say that went on? To what age did ever get to go and buy clothes at a store?

HV: Well, it really started when I started to high school, I think. Well, I had jeans, you know, because I was riding a horse all the time. That kind of stuff. And I’m sure I had shirts. But for a dress or anything like that, it was a feed sack dress.

RS: So, how did you feel about that or did you really know any different?

HV: I didn’t really know any different until I got in high school.

RS: And then did that HV: And then I knew.

RS: Did it make you feel different?

HV: I was pretty, I guess I was kind of disgusted with, I’d never been around, everybody was on the same level. And I’d never been around snotty little girls.

RS: Right. Because 00:18:00where you came from everyone was HV: Oh yeah, you didn’t think about stuff like that.

RS: That’s unfortunate. Do you remember your first family car? What kind of car it was?

HV: Oh, we didn’t have a car for a long time. We had a two-ton truck or a pick up.

RS: So, always trucks.

HV: I think until, gosh I don’t remember. It would have been while we were in Okmulgee.

RS: Okay, and who usually took you places?

HV: Mom and dad.

RS: Both of them.

HV: Well, one or the other.

RS: One or the other. So, did you get to take any vacations or anything like that at that time?

HV: No, you didn’t.

RS: Didn’t get to take vacations, huh? Who taught you how to drive?

HV: Jerry.

RS: Are you serious?

HV: Yeah.

RS: So, how old were you when he taught you how to drive?

HV: Sixteen.

RS: Okay, well that’s not as bad. Okay. So, you knew him young then.

HV: Sixteen.

RS: You knew him when…okay. And do you remember 00:19:00what your first car was?

HV: Uh, yeah, Jerry’s dad gave it to us. It was an old Buick that I thought was the ugliest thing in the world! I don’t remember what model it was.

RS: Was it big?

HV: No, it was little.

RS: Oh, it was little!

HV: And ugly!

RS: Okay. What sort of entertainment did you enjoy growing up? Did you get to watch TV, and if you did, HV: Well, we didn’t have TV.

RS: You didn’t even have a TV.

HV: Well, until we got electricity. And then in the fourteen, of course, we had Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour. And we went to my grandmas, Grandma Johnston’s, and that’s where, I think it was on Tuesday 00:20:00nights, and that’s where all the cousins by the dozens and everybody came.

RS: I love it. Tell me again what the show was called.

HV: Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour.

RS: I’ve never heard, I’m pretty familiar with old shows, but I don’t know that one.

HV: You’re not that old!

RS: Well, I used to watch a lot of old stuff when I was a kid. Do you recall, I know that it took a while to get electric and all that, but do you recall any pivotal events in history that you saw on TV?

HV: Well, the most outstanding thing that I saw was the day that John F. Kennedy got murdered.

RS: So, you recall actually seeing, watching about that.

HV: We were at my aunt’s and seen that on TV.

RS: Did you see it live or was it after, broadcast after the fact?

HV: I don’t remember. Of course, it was such a constant thing. I don’t remember. I just remember we were there 00:21:00when it came over, well, it came over the broadcast, so evidently it was live.

RS: Right. So, do you remember how you felt at the time?

HV: Oh, terrible. I loved him. I thought he was a great president.

RS: Right, okay. Did you enjoy listening to music?

HV: Oh, yeah, country!

RS: So, like who were some of your favorite artists?

HV: Oh, Ernest Tubb. I can’t think of them right now. All, whoever sang great songs at the Grand Ol’ Opry.

RS: Okay.

HV: Minnie Pearl.

RS: Oh, yeah. Okay. What was medical care like growing up? Did you have a family doctor?

HV: Oh, yeah. Dr. Walter Kale (ph). And he was great. Delivered all my kids. Made house calls. Perfect doctor.

RS: Those were the days, huh?

HV: Yes.

RS: Do you recall any serious illnesses or epidemics or anything that you experienced growing up or through 00:22:00your lifetime?

HV: No, we had the mumps and chicken pox and measles.

RS: All the normal.

HV: All that stuff.

RS: Okay.

HV: Yeah, and took our polio shots when they became where you could get them. That was kind of thing you lined up at school and done that. With parents and all.

RS: And that’s the one that left the little circle, right, on your arm? Because my mom had one.

HV: Yeah. That’s not what that was.

RS: That’s not what that was? What was that?

HV: That was RS: A different vaccine?

CV: Was that the measles?

HV: I don’t know. But momma’s was real deep. But mine wasn’t. I can’t remember what it was.

RS: Hmm…interesting. Did you attend church growing up?

HV: No.

RS: You didn’t. Okay. So, tell me what celebrating holidays was like in your family. Was it a big deal?

HV: It was a big deal.

RS: Okay, so can you tell me about a typical Christmas growing up whenever you were a kid?

HV: We usually went to my Grandma Johnston’s and my mom picked up pecans to sell so that we could have Christmas. 00:23:00RS: So, everyone got gifts?

HV: Well, we got gifts from my mom and dad, but I mean, my Grandma Johnston was able to give everybody, might be a pair of panties or not very much, but we all got a present.

RS: Everyone got a present. Was it a big, did you cook a big meal, I’m guessing?

HV: Oh, yeah. My grandmas cooked big meals and everybody got together. And it was a requirement. You didn’t not go.

RS: You didn’t not go. Did you celebrate any, were any other holidays a big deal in your family like Fourth of July or Easter or Halloween or anything?

HV: Well, at Easter we had Easter egg hunts, but it wasn’t a giant thing with everybody together like over the years, we ended up with lots of people, maybe a hundred people doing all kinds of stuff all the time but, but back when 00:24:00I was young, you couldn’t afford to do that anyway.

RS: Right. And it was, so for you for your family HV: Mostly family.

RS: And it was mainly Christmas was your big exciting holiday of the year. As a child, do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up?

HV: Oh heck, probably a cowboy.

RS: A cowboy! With your six-shooter! Okay, well, let’s talk a little bit about the different jobs you’ve had during your life. Tell me HV: The first thing I did was I worked at a little grocery store.

RS: And this was in Sapulpa [Oklahoma]?

HV: Yeah, just about two miles from me. And we had known the man that owned it for all my life. And then, my friend, Frances Carpenter, worked at Bartlett-Collins, so she suggested I go out there, and I got a job. 00:25:00So, I did that for when I had Sammy [Sammy Dean Varner 1/13/1956-5/6/2020]. Got pregnant with John [John DeWayne Varner 3/5/1960], had to quit at that time, six months, you could only work until six months. Had him. Went back to work. And then got pregnant with Jeff [Jeffery Joe Varner 10/9/1962], and by that time, after that, I didn’t go back to work until, until we moved to Okmulgee [Oklahoma].

RS: Okay. And then you helped at the stock yards in Okmulgee [Oklahoma].

HV: Yeah, I ran the office.

RS: You ran the office. Okay, and then, I know you told me after this situation with your dad “popping off” and sold the Okmulgee Stock Yards, that he purchased the Mid-America at Bristow.

HV: Yes.

RS: And you told me 1969 and then you had the first sale in February of ’70?

HV: That’s right.

RS: And then, so, tell me about the stock yards.

HV: Okay, so, it started out, I think we had, it was the worst winter you’ve ever seen.

RS: Of course.

HV: There was snow everywhere. 00:26:00I heard somewhere there was like twenty welders, and I don’t know, I guess that was right, because we had every welder around here trying to build pens to have our first sale.

RS: Because, to understand, when you first bought it, or when your dad first bought it, it wasn’t what it is now.

HV: Oh, my gosh, NO!

RS: So, a lot of work had to be done.

HV: Oh yeah. Forever and ever.

RS: Never ending?

HV: Never ending. We had only the two front rooms. The two front buildings was all that was there. So, all the pens and the bleachers, everything had to be built, so that what was what we did.

RS: So, then you had your first sale in February of ’70. Can you tell me what a typical day was at the sale barn.

HV: Well, 00:27:00at the very first, we probably had, well the first sale we had, we had over a thousand head, which we thought was unheard of. And then we had four or five hundred, and then it got to be bigger and bigger. In August 8th of 1970 something, we had the biggest sale we ever had. We had over 3,000 head. The highest market we had ever had in the history, our history.

RS: Wow!

HV: So, my dad was made Small Businessman of the Year in 1973.

RS: 1973. I knew you had mentioned that but I didn’t have the date.

HV: And, actually, Tracey Kelly was the one that RS: And that was in Oklahoma, right?

HV: Yes.

RS: Small Businessman of the Year for 00:28:00Oklahoma in 1973. Well, what an honor.

HV: And then in 1975, the British Broadcasting Company done a story on Tom Paxton. Do you know who Tom Paxton was?

RS: I don’t.

HV: Okay, he was a singer that sang, he was so famous in England. And his mother was still living here. And they came and they done a RS: By here, you mean in the United States or in Bristow?

HV: Right here in Bristow.

RS: Oh! Okay, okay.

HV: But he was a great singer, and for some reason, somehow, we got involved in all this filming. So, they really did a lot of filming of our family. Well, me and Jerry, my Grandma and Grandad Bristol, my Grandma Johnston, the McMillan’s, Lois and Harry.

RS: And tell me again what the date, 00:29:00the year of this was?

HV: 1975.

RS: 1975. So, basically, the story was about him, but it ended up encompassing all of you?

HV: All the music with that, yeah. So, we did all this stuff to the music. They had the films there, and they were there on Monday. They had the people riding the horses and all this was great fun. And we had, in fact, we all have, a film of it, but it’s real old. Bill Shattuck went to get this film, and it was at the Bristow Library, 00:30:00and the film was missing. And it’s still missing today.

RS: So, there’s no HV: Well, it’s an old RS: Like a reel?

CV: Like the old projector type HV: Yeah.

RS: So, does this exist? Does anybody have a copy?

HV: Yes.

RS: Well, that might be something that the historical society would like a copy of, possibly, if there’s a way to do it.

HV: There should be a way to do it because we took it over to that place on Sheridan and 71st [Tulsa, Oklahoma] and had it, Jerry had one made for each one of our kids.

RS: I’m going to make a note of that because that might be something we would like to have.

CV: Do you remember the name of it?

HV: It was something, Tom Paxton. Maybe the Tales of the, I really don’t remember the name, Cheryl.

RS: As far 00:31:00as a normal day at the stockyards, what did that look like for you? Like, what were your responsibilities working there?

HV: Basically, we had horse sales on Monday, Monday nights. You were there early. We helped cook. Tuesdays you did the banking. Wednesday and Thursday, not much. Fridays we had lunch. Saturdays I was always there at 6 o’clock in the morning. We didn’t miss work. Nobody missed work.

RS: Not an option.

HV: Not an option. You didn’t call in sick. If you were sick enough to die, go ahead and die.

CV: You better be dying.

RS: I feel like that might be a characteristic that has been lost these days.

HV: It has.

CV: Not in this family.

RS: Well, no, not in this family, but I mean, in general. People don’t have that same work ethic anymore.

HV: And, see, I don’t understand that.

RS: Yeah, I bet you don’t.

HV: My mom and dad, you know, my dad if he told you to get in the truck, you got in the truck. You didn’t go do this or that or RS: Or question it.

HV: You got in the truck.

RS: Yeah, you just got in the truck.

HV: So, I was raised 00:32:00that way, so I don’t understand RS: Any other way than that?

HV: A lot of this now. You’re gonna have to go put your head in the corner or I’m going to count to five. Or maybe it’s ten.

RS: Or just get in the truck! So, and this is probably a loaded question, because I know you were there a long time, can you remember any particular funny stories or anything that happened at the stock yards that you would want to share?

HV: Well, one night, at a horse sale, we were having the sale as usual, and the sale had to be stopped. Why was the sale stopped? Because 00:33:00Jerry had to go out in the back and separate his two young men, John and Jeff.

RS: They were fighting?

HV: They were fighting!

RS: Oh, my goodness! And do we know why they were fighting?

HV: I never did know. Too mad to ask.

RS: Well, I’m going to hate to see what happened to them once dad broke ‘em up. Oh, my goodness!

HV: He just talked to them. In language they understood.

RS: Right, right.

HV: And let’s see, one time a cow, so my brother was a little short dude, and he was the auctioneer, and a cow jumped up in front of him, and as he, I guess the cow finally got down, and he comes like a telescope and he comes up and looks at the crowd. And it was so 00:34:00funny! I know that’s not funny, gonna be funny there, but it was hilarious. Then one time, we had Mort. Mort was a, Mort Durbin.

RS: I hear some, you have some run-ins with skunks.

HV: Yeah, that was one of the funnies.

RS: Okay, well tell us about that.

HV: Okay. Mort [Mort “Mortie” Durbin 9/22/1927-11/14/1985], we had a terrible issue with the skunks. And, so, Mort, one time at almost the end of the sale, as I recall it, and he would get the stuff that you fill pop machine, CO2, and he squirted this skunk out the door and that skunk went off!

RS: Oh, my goodness!

HV: And there all these people in there, and gagging. We were all, anyhow, that was another story.

RS: Yeah, he probably wasn’t high on the list after that, was he?

HV: Not for a few days, but he was quite a guy. We liked him.

RS: I, also, understand that you and Jerry wrote a book together.

HV: Yeah.

RS: Can you tell me about that?

HV: Yeah, 00:35:00this is the Cowtales & Recipes. We wrote it on Sunday mornings, and we argued probably most of the day whether his words or my words were the best.

RS: So, how long did it take to compile this book?

HV: Oh, it took a long time. And we tried different ways and never could get anybody, and finally, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] came up with a lady in Chandler [Oklahoma] who is, actually, the one that finally got it done for him.

RS: Give me a rough estimate, how many years went into that?

HV: Oh, I don’t know.

CV: When did you start writing Cowtales?

HV: I don’t even know.

CV: Because he wrote them every Sunday.

HV: Yeah, he wrote every Sunday.

RS: And then you just decided to compile them?

HV: Yeah.

RS: Okay.

HV: Oh, 00:36:00and he was on the radio with them every Sunday. Or maybe it was Mondays.

CV: No, I think it was Sunday at KREK.

HV: Yeah, he was on KREK, and also, they ran them in the newspaper. But I think we had to pay to get them in the newspaper.

RS: So, this book that you brought, is this something I can take to the historical society for HV: Yes.

RS: We would like to preserve that. I think that’s pretty neat. So, before we get off of the stockyards, how long did you guys own and run the stockyards?

HV: Just until two years ago. But let me tell you first RS: Okay.

HV: I’m going to tell you some stuff.

RS: Yeah, no, tell me!

HV: So, Todd Hiett, who was our auctioneer, who’s now the Corporation Commissioner, he became a Speaker of the House while he was auctioning. And, then, Skye [Skye Varner McNiel] who is my granddaughter, became a representative. But she came back on Saturdays and worked the sale, too. 00:37:00So, those are two of the people that, of course, I’ve got grandkids now that have businesses here, so Bristow has been very good to my family.

RS: That’s good. That’s neat.

HV: Oh, yeah! And we had great Halloween parties.

RS: See, I asked you about Halloween!

HV: Well, this was here.

RS: Well, let’s hear about it.

HV: Okay, so we had, I don’t know how we became like the center of whatever, because we were just plain old country people. But we had, EVERYBODY came. You know, we had the McMillians. We had the Kellys. We had all the people from downtown that had businesses.

CV: The Mitchells.

HV: The Mitchells. I mean, everybody came.

RS: Came to your house?

HV: We had one at the house, and then we had some at the sale barn.

RS: Okay, 00:38:00so what went on at these?

HV: Oh, we had spook houses and everybody dressed up, you know.

CV: You had to come in costume HV: Yeah, oh yeah, and everybody did!

RS: Well, that sounds like fun.

CV: And there was a big dance. There was always a big dance.

HV: Yeah.

RS: So, how many years did this go on?

HV: Oh, we probably done it for four or five years.

RS: Well, that sounds like fun! I never got invited.

CV: Well, the last one was when me and Jeff was dating.

RS: Oh, okay.

CV: And that was the last time we had one, and that was in ’82.

HV: My dad died in ’82 and then everything kind of RS: Changed?

HV: I guess it changed or we just got older or something. But it was a, it was a great place for everybody to come and everybody did! Didn’t matter who you were or what you did. Oh! And one time, so we all, on your birthday, you got dumped in the water tank.

CV: You didn’t have a choice. You just went.

RS: You didn’t 00:39:00fight it?

CV: Well, you could fight, but it didn’t matter.

RS: It didn’t matter.

HV: Some people, one guy, one time who was just a passer-by, he said that they would dare do that to me. Well, guess what? That dude went in. And, not only that, did you know Lavon Lane?

RS: Oh, yeah.

HV: She went in!

RS: NOOO WAY!

HV: Yes, she did!

CV: If it was your birthday and you were at the sale barn HV: You went in.

CV: It didn’t matter if it was January.

RS: Did anybody get a picture of that HV: No.

RS: Because I cannot even imagine her being dunked in a tank.

HV: And she laughed!

RS: Well, good! Oh, that’s funny!

HV: Yeah, it was, everybody had fun, and it was all in fun.

RS: Yeah.

HV: There were a few people that got mad, I guess, but it really didn’t make any difference.

RS: It didn’t matter.

HV: To the dunkers.

RS: That’s funny.

CV: Those that had birthdays in January to March, they would even break ice to put you in.

RS: Oh, boy! I’d be glad that my birthday was in the summer then! So, you had 00:40:00the sale barn for 51 years?

HV: Yes.

RS: Fifty-one years. And what made you decide to finally to sell?

HV: My kids were ready.

RS: Your kids were ready? But you’re still out there, right?

HV: Well, I’m still baking the cakes. But I’m not really out there.

RS: Okay, but you’re still cooking?

HV: I’m still cooking.

CV: She cooks lunch for us every day.

HV: Another funny story. You know Dr. Chapman. Did you know Benny Chapman?

RS: I did not.

HV: Okay, so that was their youngest son, and he worked at the sale barn. So, one morning, Dr. Chapman, so it goes, went out to get his shoes, a pair of shoes, out of the garage, and he didn’t have just a pair of shoes, but almost all of his shoes were in the garage with cow manure on them.

RS: Oh, no!

HV: Benny had worn a different pair all the time, and was Dr. Chapman mad! 00:41:00RS: Because he was trying to go to work, I’m guessing?

HV: I’m assuming.

RS: But all of his shoes had manure, oh no!

HV: Ben had worn numerous. I don’t know how many shoes Dr. Chapman had, but he wore numerous shoes.

RS: Oh, my goodness! Let’s talk about Jerry [Jerry Dean Varner 10/30/1936-1/24/2017]. When and where did you first meet him?

HV: We met at Sapulpa [Oklahoma]. He was there to rope and I was there to run barrels.

RS: So, you didn’t go to school together?

HV: No, he went to Pretty Water.

RS: Okay.

HV: Then, they went to California. Yeah, then we were back in school together, but we hadn’t met yet.

RS: Oh, okay. So, in Sapulpa is where you met Jerry. And can you tell me his full name?

HV: Jerry Dean Varner.

RS: Okay, and I have his birth date as 10/30/1936?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay. 00:42:00So, what was your first impression of him when you saw him?

HV: I thought he was the cutest thing alive on a horse.

RS: So, did you actually meet him at a rodeo or?

HV: Yes, well, at a roping.

RS: At a roping, okay.

HV: He was sitting there with his Uncle John, so I come up and say, can I buy you a pop?

RS: So, you made the first move?

HV: I believe I did!

CV: And stayed that way.

RS: That’s good! Can you tell us about your engagement? Did you get engaged? Did you have an engagement period?

HV: I don’t think we really got engaged.

RS: You just got married.

HV: We just eventually, we dated, he was the only one I ever dated.

RS: Really?! Awe. So, how long did you date before you got married?

HV: Well, we were sixteen and so that was, and then we were almost eighteen.

RS: When you got married.

HV: We were seniors in high school.

RS: So, you got married when you were still in school?

HV: Mm-hmm. 00:43:00RS: Oh, wow! Okay. What did your parents think about that? Were they okay with it?

HV: I don’t think, well, they were probably used to him by then. You know, we were always together.

RS: Always together.

HV: I don’t think my dad was interested in me getting married.

RS: At all or?

HV: At all. I don’t think momma cared.

RS: Where did you get married at?

HV: In my mom and dad’s house.

RS: Okay, in Sapulpa? Okay. Can you tell us anything about your wedding, what your wedding was like?

HV: It was just very simple. I wore a suit. Jerry’s, my grandparents were there. Jerry’s grandparents were there. Jerry’s mom and dad, of course. Jerry’s boss, who was Johnny somebody-or-other, 00:44:00was his best man. And my Aunt Lila (ph) was my maid of honor.

RS: Oh, okay. What were your, especially since you were young, what were your early years of marriage like?

HV: Not always good.

RS: So, expand on that. What do you mean?

HV: Well, one time, okay, so, we were in a little house, and Jerry, for some reason, got mad at his aftershave, or this squirt stuff, this soap. And, so, he squirts it all in the bathtub, and I ain’t gonna clean it out. And he isn’t either. I think it stayed that way for about three or four days. We finally had to break up and take a bath.

RS: So, you were both stubborn, huh?

HV: We were both stubborn, yeah.

RS: So, how old were you when you, so how long were you married before you had kids?

HV: One year.

RS: One year.

HV: One year and one week.

RS: So, what was it like for you as a young mother? What were some of your challenges? 00:45:00HV: I really didn’t have any because I had lots of help. My mom was great help. Jerry’s mom, you know, when I went to work, with Sammy, momma kept him.

RS: So, you had a very supportive family?

HV: Oh yeah, always.

RS: Well, that always helps.

HV: On both sides.

RS: So, in the early days was it like financially a struggle?

HV: Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were pretty broke.

RS: Paycheck to paycheck?

HV: Yeah, yeah.

CV: Now when did Jerry go to, was it the navy, army?

HV: Army.

CV: Army.

HV: When Sammy was about two.

RS: Okay, well, let’s talk about your kids since you mentioned, tell me 00:46:00how many kids you have and what their full names are.

HV: Okay. Sammy Dean Varner [1/13/1956-5/6/2020] and he was born in ’56.

RS: Okay, I have January 13, 1956. Is that right?

HV: Yeah.

RS: Okay.

HV: He was, my dad LOVED him and spoiled him. Probably the only big falling outs we would have had would have been over Sammy and my dad. He, anyway. His first three words…wanna hear it?

RS: What?

HV: Damn, hell, shitzes.

RS: Say that again.

HV: Damn, hell, shitzes.

CV: And that was passed down.

RS: Oh, my goodness! That’s funny.

HV: I don’t know if you’re gonna put all this on there.

RS: Oh, it’s all going in there. But, this is the kind of stuff that you family’s going to love to preserve. 00:47:00The funny stories, all of it. The good, bad, you know. That’s what matters. Okay, so, what about your next child?

HV: Okay, so then, we had Johnny DeWayne Varner, of course.

RS: And I have him as March 5, 1960?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay.

HV: Okay, so he was the middle child, and really, very active, and not at all like Sammy. He was bouncy off the counters and everywhere. But, he was real kind, sweet and I dressed him like a girl for a while because I thought I was going to have a girl. You know, it was going to be boy, girl. And, so, momma had made all these pretty clothes. My aunt had sewed all these booty things, and the little sweaters, like they used to do. But anyway, it didn’t happen. He was a boy. And he had hair, real pretty hair when 00:48:00he was born. And Kay had Debbie at the same time, and she had no hair.

RS: Isn’t that the way?

HV: Yeah, so, and then after that, we had Jeff, and Jeff was a rotten little guy.

RS: And, so, what’s his full name?

HV: Jeffery Joe Varner.

RS: And I have his birth date as 10/9/1962?

HV: Yes.

RS: Okay. So, tell us a about Jeff.

HV: Okay, so, Jeff had, when he was little, everything had to match. The little Buster, no I believe it was Buster Browns or something, at that time, we were, I guess momma, momma probably bought most of the clothes for everybody. But he had his little shirt that had to match the pants that had to match the socks. And, he was, he was just always a good kid until he got to be a in high school.

RS: Something happens when they turn about seventeen.

HV: Yeah, so, one night I was sitting up waiting on him, 00:49:00and I waited and I waited and I waited and I waited. And he finally came in, and I said, son, where were you? And he was over there at that girl’s house, and I said, well, what did her parents say you being over there so long? He said, they weren’t home.

RS: Oh, no!

CV: That was not me.

HV: It wasn’t.

RS: Uh oh!

HV: Oh, shoot! Anyway.

RS: Okay, so maybe I should have asked what were your challenges raising your children when they were teenagers. Not when they were kids.

HV: I don’t think we really had, I mean, my mom and dad were strict with us. Jerry, if he told the kids to jump on this table, they would have. And he wasn’t mean. It was just this is what you did.

RS: An element of respect.

HV: Yeah, I mean, you know, you didn’t challenge.

RS: Right.

HV: One time John, and I think it was, was it Jeff 00:50:00and Sammy got into it. Jeff said to Sam, Sam was the smallest even though he was the oldest, and Jeff said, well, if you don’t like what I say, just whip my ass. And Sammy said, I would have a long time ago if I could have.

CV: Can you imagine three boys?

RS: Oh, and that was going to be one of my questions was what were the challenges of raising three boys, but it sounds like you had a few anyway.

HV: Well, a few, but they still got along.

RS: Good boys. Hard working boys. So, how many grandchildren do you have?

HV: Seven.

RS: Seven grandchildren. Do you want to name all of them?

HV: Sure.

RS: Okay.

HV: Pokey. His name is Sloan. Skye, Joey, Jenni Jae, Samantha, Moo 00:51:00[Melynadee], Rayne.

RS: Okay, and then how many great-grandkids do you have?

HV: Fourteen.

RS: Oh, my goodness. That’s a lot.

HV: Yeah.

RS: And you feed everybody, don’t you?

HV: Yeah.

RS: That just blows my mind. But I think that’s why you’re a spry lady. You stay busy all the time, don’t you?

HV: Well, I used to. If it wasn’t for my girls, I wouldn’t. I have mentioned our parties. We had Christmas parties for my whole family. Not only did it include my family, my cousins, it took Melody’s family, her cousins, her kids, Cheryl’s mother and dad, friends, like the Beaches. Used to be they were friends for a long time, of course, they’ve passed away. But anyhow, so we’d have it out at the VFW.

RS: So, how many people are we talking, probably, maybe?

HV: Maybe 150? 00:52:00CV: 150 at least.

HV: And we bought presents for anybody 12 and under. And Santa was always there. And it was the same Santa.

CV: Every year.

HV: It was the same Santa, and of course, now that Santa can’t do this anymore, we had quit. But we had quit during covid anyway. But Joey, at one time, we went somewhere, and somebody was talking about Santa, and Joey said yeah, but that’s not the real Santa. Because our Santa was the real Santa. And it was Joe Sam [Joe Sam Vassar].

RS: That’s awesome!

HV: And he did it every year. Every year.

RS: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that I have not thought to ask you about that’s on your list?

HV: No, I think that’s it.

RS: Okay. Well, I’ve still got a few more questions, so, and these might make you think a little bit so. So, be ready. 00:53:00What would you consider to be the most important invention during your lifetime?

HV: Invention? Well, it sure as hell wouldn’t be computers.

RS: I didn’t say, I didn’t say your favorite. The most important.

HV: Electricity.

RS: Well, I mean, for you, I bet that was the best thing to have.

HV: Oh! It was!

RS: Okay. How do you feel the world is different now than whenever you were young, like a kid?

HV: I don’t think people are respectful anymore. I don’t like attitudes with the kids at school. Are you wanting the negative 00:54:00crap that I’m going to say.

RS: I want you to be honest what, you know, what your opinion is of how things are different, and maybe, how you would like them to be better.

HV: I just think that the family values have really gotten screwed up, and I think that we need to get back to the basic family togetherness. I don’t like drugs and all of that stuff, although, I’ve had that in my family. I don’t think people respect each other enough. 00:55:00RS: So, you, basically, think if we could get back to some of the old-fashioned values that it might correct some of the stuff going on right now?

HV: Oh, I’m sure.

RS: Yeah. So, along that line, what do you feel is our nation’s biggest problem and how do you think that can be solved?

HV: I think there’s a lot of corruption. I think that we spend, I think our senators, representatives and all those people have been spending way too much time making bills. I think they ought to go up there and whatever problems there are, solve a few and go home and go back to work and do something else and not just make a total living off of being a representative. And I’m talking about, not only state but nationwide. I think that we’ve got a whole bunch of people, especially 00:56:00in Washington that have made boo-koos of money, that they’re rich. How did you get rich on $50,000 a year or sixty or seventy-five? Ain’t no way, honey! So, you know, I’m pretty plain spoken, but that’s the way I feel.

RS: That’s why we appreciate you.

HV: That’s the way I feel.

RS: I completely respect your opinion. How have historic events affected you? Say, for example, thinking back to, you know, the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, Covid, maybe any natural disasters. Can you think of any particular historic event that maybe really affected your life?

HV: Well, recently, of course, it was Covid. And I think that is the most disrupted, stupid thing that history has put us through. I don’t believe it. I know there was 00:57:00Covid out there, but I think that a lot of it had to do with the way they were treated. And I think you can’t lay on your back with Covid and everything that you seen, the patients were there, they were on their back.

RS: Did it affect your family personally?

HV: It affected our sale barn.

RS: Okay.

HV: We had to mark it off and people had to stand so far apart. Then that guy can only come in while his cattle were selling, and it was crazy.

RS: A nightmare.

HV: That was a nightmare.

CV: We had to shut the catwalk completely down because people would gather on the catwalk, so we had to just shut that down. It was crazy.

RS: So, did you have any family members that had Covid or was sick or passed away from it?

HV: Well, Jerry passed away in ’17, but well, Sammy was in the hospital during Covid and we didn’t even get to go see him. And he laid there for three weeks. You think that don’t kill a person. 00:58:00RS: Oh, my goodness. Because he had Covid or just because he was there for another reason.

HV: No, he was there. He was there for his heart.

RS: Okay.

HV: Sammy was a people person, and he died by himself.

RS: Awful.

HV: That was a bad deal.

RS: Yeah, that’s rough.

HV: The only other thing was John F. Kennedy’s murder. I thought that was, and I still think that there’s, there’s something there. Just same as I think now what happened last week. There’s something there.

RS: And tell us what happened last week.

HV: Well, when Trump [Donald J. Trump] got his ear shot.

RS: Okay, because I feel like that’s going to be a pivotal, going forward, a pivotal point in our history, too.

HV: I think so. With the person, they already knew this guy was up on the roof, and then they said guns down, and they went ahead and shot him. 00:59:00There’s just a whole bunch of RS: Unanswered questions, and I think what’s going to be interesting about this is, since we have your interview on tape of the beginnings of their investigation of it, it will be interesting to see in the future how it ends up playing out.

HV: Right.

RS: Okay, so is there anything else you would like to tell us about or any wisdom you would like to share for future generations?

HV: Love your family.

RS: That simple. Love your family. Okay, I like that.

HV: That’s it.

RS: And before we close, I just want to ask, too, because I know you’re like the matriarch of the family, and I think as Cheryl said, everyone comes to you for business advice and life advice, 01:00:00I like that you’re as simple as love your family.

HV: Thank you.

RS: I like it. Is there anything you would like to add that we forgot to talk about or that I failed to ask you about? Cheryl, can you think of anything?

CV: Anytime that we all work together, I mean we all work together, and when we go on vacations, we would all go vacation together. We were always together.

RS: Together. So, CV: Very close-knit family, very close.

RS: Well, and I think that lends to your advice of love your family. Having that strong family unit, support, that’s what we are lacking, I think.

HV: And, see, what I don’t understand is, I have a friend, kind of, that isn’t, her kids are not coming to see her like they should. And I don’t know where that break down is.

RS: Right. 01:01:00HV: I don’t know what causes, I don’t know what causes that. You know, I don’t know if it’s the mother, or the kids, or what. I don’t understand what makes the kids not go to their mother.

RS: Right.

HV: But we were raised, see, that way. We were raised to respect and love your mother.

RS: Well, I think you can attest to the fact that she’s a strong woman that is the glue of the family.

CV: I’ve always told her that if she didn’t like the way me and Melody turned out, it’s her fault, because she had us longer than our parents ever had us. If they don’t like us, it’s because of her example.

RS: Oh, gosh! Well, I think that is pretty much it for me today. We appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Your interview will become an important part of our oral history archive for the museum 01:02:00and we appreciate you and thank you very much!

HV: Thank you.