Leo Frank Bruce

BM: This is [indecipherable], 10--or 11/12/1976, ten minutes until four o'clock. Leo, whenever--

MM: What was [inaudible]

BM: What was your mother and dad's name?

LB: My dad's name was Abner, his middle initial was L.--Abner L. Bruce, but he was just known as Abner, you know, mainly everyone knew him as Abner Bruce. Now, my mother's name was Ella May. I don't remember how she spelled it--whether she spelled it M-A-Y or M-A-E, probably with a Y. I think they most--heared it spelled it back in those days.

BM: Her maiden name was what?

LB: Stowe.

BM: Stowe.

LB: S-T-O-W-E.

BM: How many children were to that marriage, Leo?

LB: Well, there were three children. Is it too warm in here for you folks?

BM: No, it's fine for me.

UM: It's a little bit too warm for me, but [inaudible].

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: There were three children to that marriage.

LB: Yes.

BM: And their names were what, Leo?

LB: Well, let's see--let me get the Bible.

BM: Okay.

pause in recording

BM: There were three children.

LB: Iva's the oldest. Leo Frank.

MM: Born in what year?

BM: What year were you born, Leo?

LB: Oh, in 1897.

BM: 1897.

LB: October the 18th.

BM: Then?

LB: Then Clarence Bruce was born March 3, 1902. And he died in infancy, didn't 00:02:00live but a few days. And there was a girl born, oh the first--no, she was born February 4, 1906, and she didn't--she died in infancy. She died May 1, 1906, that same year.

MM: You were the sole--

BM: You're the sole, you are the only one that--

LB: The only child.

BM: The only child.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

BM: You stated here a while back, Leo, that you remembered when the first school was built there.

LB: Well, I should be able to give you that [indecipherable] description, but I 00:03:00can't and I don't know--

BM: Why, Leo, we--we uh--

LB: [inaudible]

BM: --we have the--

LB: --already--

BM: --we have the description and all of that. You stated, though, that you remembered when the first school was--first schoolhouse was built. Is that right?

LB: Yes, sir.

BM: Any particular thing happen during the building of that school that you remember of?

LB: Nothing that was really of importance. I knew that I was just very small boy and I was standing around and getting where I was in the way when they were--the people were putting up the school, building the school. And they--some of them got after me for being in the way there, I can remember that part of it.

BM: At that time, Leo, where did your parents live?

LB: They lived--well, now, they lived in a little--I'm turned around. I get my directions crossed up there. But the road that goes down to, past where Abner Bruce lives now? Well they lived on down that road at the foot of that hill, you know, there's quite a hill there.

BM: Yeah. On that hill there.

LB: Mmm-hmm. They lived on the, right past Abner's. They lived on the left.

BM: On the left-hand side--

LB: Left-hand side of the road right at the foot of the hill.

BM: Right at the foot of that hill.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

BM: That would be on the north side of the road there, then. What's that road run east, east and west. They lived here right at the foot of the hill, then, 00:05:00before they got down to that little creek where Frank's house was. Is that right?

LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm.

BM: What type of a house was that, Leo?

LB: It was a log a house.

BM: It was a log house. So, how many rooms was it?

LB: I believe it was just two rooms.

BM: How long did they live there in that house?

LB: They lived there until statehood, you know, more of [indecipherable]. What would've been the election, you know, when they--in the fall of the year before statehood, would've been 1907, and I think statehood was January 1908. And they moved to Sapulpa in the fall of the year prior to statehood.

BM: They moved to Sapulpa prior to statehood.

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: Tell us about what's in that first schoolhouse being built.

LB: Well, I was so small it's hard for me to--

MM: Tell us--you kind of played around it, [inaudible] while they was building it [inaudible].

LB: Well, I can't remember that the--it was just out in open land, there, you know, and I don't know whether they had any fences to speak of at that time that cut through there. Maybe it was just open land and I was just--didn't have anything else to do that I would just, just knew of the men that were working there and a big part of the time I was in their way.

MM: And they kind of chased you off.

BM: Uh--

MM: And you started school in the year--

BM: You started to school there when the--in that year of 19--when the first 00:07:00school opened, then. Is that right?

LB: Yes.

BM: And that teacher--

LB: Well, it must've been Nell Evans (ph).

BM: Nell Evans (ph)? Or Nell Watson (ph)?

LB: Nell, Nell Watson (ph), now wasn't she--

BM: She was the one that was in 1903.

LB: --wasn't her maiden name Evans?

BM: Well I--it could've been, I don't know.

LB: And I think she married a Watson there in Bristow, could that be right?

LB: Well, now that, that--

MM: No, Nell Evans was the third one.

BM: Nell Evans was the third teacher down.

LB: Oh, well--

MM: Might be the same one if she--

LB: I'm, I'm sorry--Witty McKeehan (ph) was the first teacher that, wasn't that right?

MM: No, Nell Watson--

BM: Nell Watson and then Witty McKeehan (ph) was the second teacher.

LB: Is that right. Well, I don't believe I went to school with a teacher Nell Watson on my time, I can't remember that. Because I always had the impression that--well, Witty (ph) and I talked about it, but I told people that Witty (ph) was my first schoolteacher.

BM: Mmm-hmm.

LB: But that might've been wrong, but as I remembered it, and I can remember with Witty (ph) teaching school there, and I was thinking that he was my first schoolteacher.

MM: And what do you remember about Witty (ph)?

BM: What do you remember about Witty McKeehan (ph) as a teacher?

LB: Well, I thought that--of course, it was easy for me to somehow make an impression on me, you know, but I thought he was really smart. (laughs)

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: Who all went to school with you there at that time, Leo? That you can remember?

LB: Well, that was--

BM: Take your time now, and think.

LB: It's hard to remember many of them because they're so--there was a family by the name of Campbell. I don't remember for sure how they spelled their name, I think it was C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L Campbell. I think they went to school there. And 00:09:00there was (pause) and there was two (pause) I want to say scholars, pupils, that were, they were practically grown. [Indecipherable] a boy and a girl, they--they were--to me they were man and a woman.

BM: Mmm-hmm.

LB: --went to school there, and I can remember that. And then there was, I think there was more than one Stubblefield, I believe. There's a Charlie Stubblefield, I think Charlie Stubblefield is still there, and there's--we knew him as Letch, was that his actual name?

BM: I have a Letch Stubblefield--

LB: Letch Stubblefield.

BM: There was a Letch Stubblefield as well as a Charlie Stubblefield.

LB: And then Sam, there was a Sammy Stubblefield. Those three might've gone to 00:10:00school there. And I'm pretty sure Clarence Myers went to school there. And the Mayes (ph) children, Miss [indecipherable] Mayes (ph) was [indecipherable] a teacher there. And her brother, Willie, his name was Willie Mayes (ph), they went to school there. And a Tom McEwan (ph), I think his father's name was Billy--Bill McEwan (ph), he would've been a nephew to the teacher, Woody.

BM: To Woody.

LB: [inaudible] Now that first year I can't be sure about that but those are the pupils that I remember that went to school to Pinehill there in the early days. And Rosie Lindsey (ph) went to school there. And she was always in school. That 00:11:00was before she and Frank Bruce were married.

BM: Your mother taught school there too, in case you hadn't--

LB: That's right.

BM: Do you have any idea--there had been a story and we had been told that she didn't complete her term there for some reason or other. Do you have any idea what that reason was, Leo?

LB: Well, it's possible that it could've been her--they moved to Sapulpa there. I don't know.

MM: No, that she--

BM: No, they said something about her health or something or other, about that time.

LB: Can't remember that.

BM: Clarence Myers was the one that told us that. Now, could it have been possible that it could've been on the count of the youngest girl.

LB: That's possible. [inaudible]

BM: I believe on her--

LB: It was 1906 when she died, that--

BM: Yeah, in 1906. So it's very possible then, that the reason your mother didn't complete that term of school was on the count of your sister.

LB: I don't know.

MM: Do you remember Ernest Sawell?

BM: Do you remember Ernst Sawell? S-A-W-E-L-L?

LB: No, I don't recall.

MM: He finished the term [inaudible].

BM: He finished the term, that term, for your mother. That was according to Clarence Myers.

MM: Do you remember Will D. Wilson (ph)?

LB: [Indecipherable.]

BM: He came in, Will D. came in, after your mother taught there.

LB: It was the next term, probably, wasn't it.

BM: And Ernest Sawell, the next term, well then Will D. Wilson came in and taught the next term.

LB: Hmm. Well I--you asked who went to school there, I'm sure Leo Pinehill went 00:13:00to school there.

MM: Yes, [inaudible].

LB: And [indecipherable] probably Mary and--

MM: Mary.

BM: The--all three of those kids.

LB: --Pinehill children.

UW: I don't know whether the Biggs went that early or not. And some of the Big Mosquitoes (ph).

LB: [Inaudible.]

BM: In later years, then, Leo, in later years you went to--you came back in that country. You came back in that country. Did you or did you not?

LB: Yes, it was several--

BM: In later years, several, several years after that--

LB: In later years.

MM: About what year was that?

BM: About what year was did you come back out in there, Leo?

LB: Oh, (pause). When was the [indecipherable] war, well that's--I just read it 00:14:00in the history--day before [indecipherable], World War I? When the armistice was signed?

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: Nineteen-eighteen or 1919.

LB: It was about two or three years before that, prior to that, that I was out there.

BM: Was any you--when you came back out there, then, where did you, where did you move to at that time?

LB: Oh, I just stayed there with my grandparents, Coley Bruce--Coleman Bruce. And I ran a store for a few years.

BM: You ran a store there. Alright, where was that store located at?

LB: It was about--how far would it be from where the last school was there east across--just across Polecat Bridge there, and about a quarter--

MM: Quarter east and a quarter north--

BM: No, half east and a quarter north--

MM: Half a mile east and quarter north.

BM: Half east and a quarter north.

MM: Alright, what kind of store, how big a store, tell us about it.

BM: How big a store was that, Leo?

LB: Oh I just--couldn't really call it a store, it was more--in this day and time you'd think of it more as a concession stand because we had no refrigeration, you know, and didn't even keep ice, but about all I kept was flour and canned goods and stuff that was not perishable, couldn't spoil. And tobacco, cans of tobacco.

MM: How long did you run it?

LB: Didn't even have, didn't even have sodee pop. (laughs)

BM: How long did you run that store, Leo?

LB: I think it was a little over two years.

BM: When your parents moved into the Sapulpa area, what did your father--what was your father's occupation at that time?

LB: Well, of course he was a farmer, well then he was elected. He ran for county clerk. And he was elected county clerk.

BM: He was elected country clerk.

MM: What year?

BM: What year was he elected county clerk?

LB: Well, that would've been in 1907, wouldn't that be right? Nineteen-seven, prior to statehood. Statehood I think was January 1908.

MM: How many years did he serve?

LB: He served seven years [inaudible]. The election they held before statehood--or the first election as I remember it was an off year, and when they 00:17:00had the next election why, they held it when--on the regular year that the elections have always been held since and the [inaudible]--

BM: On an even year, then.

LB: --the terms were two years, two year terms. And his first term as I remember it was only a year there. He just served a year until the next election and then it was like a regular term, for two more terms.

BM: Now he was elected down near the--the first term, then, he would've been elected. He went in, then in about 1909. His first term would've been about 1909.

MM: No, 1907--

LB: A full term.

BM: A full term, first year--first term.

MM: What did your mom and dad do? Did they move back to the Pinehill community?

LB: No.

BM: At the present time, do you still-you still own some land out in that part, do you or do you not, Leo?

LB: Yes.

BM: Let's back up. What year, Leo, did you get married?

LB: That would've been 19--(pauses), that would be 1927. It was [indecipherable].

MM: He was married October 18, 18--no.

LB: It may not give it.

MM: March 26, 1927.

LB: [Inaudible.]

BM: And what was her name?

LB: Ida Shockley.

BM: Ida Shockley. And to that marriage how many children were there, Leo?

LB: Two.

BM: Two. What were their--

LB: Two boys.

BM: Two boys. What were their names?

LB: Kaye Don, K-A-Y-E Don D-O-N, Kaye Don Bruce, and Robert Bruce.

BM: Kaye Don and Robert Bruce. Are those children still alive?

LB: Yes.

BM: Where is Kaye Don at, at the present time?

LB: He's in Richmond, Washington. State of Washington.

BM: And Robert?

LB: He's in Mexico City.

BM: Mexico City. He's down with all them pretty senoritas, then.

LB: Well, both those boys married senoritas.

BM: Oh, they did!

MM: Kaye Don was married to Francisca Alexius (ph) and Robert married Elesia Montaguerrez (ph).

BM: Kaye Don, I know, went to school out here. I remember Kaye Don going to school out there at Pinehill.

LB: [inaudible] that's right.

BM: Kaye Don went to school out there.

LB: About one year.

BM: Yeah, and he--at that time, I think, my best memory, it was just--you lived just west of Cherry Creek (ph) on the south side of the road. In later years the 00:21:00house burned. Troy Livingston (ph)--

LB: Was living in there--

BM: Troy and Plessie (ph) was living in the house when it burned. I believe it's right, is that--

LB: That's right, that's right.

MM: How many Pinehill school buildings do you remember? [Inaudible.]

LB: Well I don't know whether there'd have been three, there were three, wasn't there?

BM: Well we've got reports of three, we've got reports of four, so we don't know.

MM: The one that [inaudible]--

BM: But when do you remember the ones that you remember, Leo? Where were they located at?

LB: West--well the first one, of course, was there at the crossroads where--and the next one was (pause) Well, you see, the next one as I remember it was a 00:22:00higher elevation than the last one.

BM: Yeah.

LB: It was kind of up on the hill--

BM: It would've been a mile--the second one that you remember would've been a mile north and about a quarter of a mile west of where the first schoolhouse was built. Then the third one was built down in under the hill.

LB: As I remember--

BM: Is that--that's the way you--

LB: As I remember it, yes, but if there were four buildings, why--

MM: The first one apparently--

LB: --that could've been crossed up some way there, see.

BM: The first one--

MM: The one they think was the second one only lasted three years before it was burned, from 1909 to 1912.

LB: Could it've been where the last one burned? And then--

MM: No, one was a quarter of a mile--a mile south of the last one and 00:23:00about--what, a quarter east?

BM: The first one, from the first school house, where the first one was built, was a mile south and about a quarter east, kind of sitting on the hill up there on the prairie. Was the third where you remember the first one being built, is that right? That would be at the crossroads.

LB: That's right.

BM: That would be a mile south of the last schoolhouse.

LB: That's right.

BM: And about a quarter east. Or was it right in the corner?

LB: Seems to me like it was right at the road, almost at the road there.

BM: Well on this, that would be the one John Rossander was talking about, then.

MM: John Rossander says he can show you the foundation, he must know.

LB: I guess so.

MM: 'Course he--

BM: So then they tell me that there was another one built up on top of the hill, 00:24:00which would be east of the one on the crossroads.

LB: [Inaudible] it's possible, but I wouldn't remember that.

BM: Was your dad--wasn't your dad elected to a term as sheriff? In Creek County?

LB: Yes, he served two terms as sheriff.

BM: He served two terms as sheriff of Creek County. Well then, he was--that was in what year, Leo? Do you remember?

LB: No, I don't. I'm not sure, I'd have to look that up.

BM: Well they did Mote--

LB: Mote ran for sheriff but he--

BM: After Abner was--

LB: After Abner served just two terms, yes.

BM: That's what I--that's the way I remember it but I never had got that--

LB: That's right.

BM: --I never had got that off any of the, anybody else but you. (pause) Is 00:25:00there any funnies that you can--that you remember that went on at the school during your school days there? Is there anything, any funny happened that you remember?

LB: Well, I can't think of anything amusing right now.

BM: To you memory, then, what, what all was the school used for, Leo?

LB: It was--they had church there a lot, as I remember it, and then they had a literary society there in the community. I can remember those meetings were a 00:26:00lot. They'd have--they'd come in there of an evening and I guess they had a certain night of the week that they'd have the literary but I can't remember when.

BM: We've got different reports on these literaries, but we never have really pinpointed it down to just what all went on at these literaries.

LB: I can remember they had the dialogues and recitations and they'd have songs. 00:27:00They didn't have a musical instrument there, but I think sometimes someone would try to sing a song, I can remember that. But the main thing that I remember was the recitations and dialogues and I can't remember--I can't remember the church meetings so well. That--I'm sure that they did have church in the first building.

BM: Also we have been told that it was used for a voting precinct in later years. It was used as a voting precinct. And in the early days they held court in that school. Do you know anything about that?

LB: No.

BM: We've been told something about a kangaroo court and I've tried to pinpoint that down.

LB: Mm-hmm. No.

BM: I forgot now who it was that--Virgil Vann, I believe it was, that was 00:28:00telling us about the kangaroo court, but I never could get him pinned down. Tried to find out if the kangaroo courts--that they put on during one of these literaries meetings or whether it was a real honest to goodness kangaroo court. But I've never been able to get it pinned down.

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: Okay.

MM: As far as we know, and as far as we've been able to tell, Leo, you were the first white child born in that community. Leo Frank Bruce. And you was born (pause) what the date was--10/01/1897. October the--

LB: Ten the eighteenth.

MM: --ninety-seven. Your father was Abner Louis Bruce and he was born 00:29:0009/23/1871, died 01/18/1952. His brothers were Frank--James Franklin, J. Smith, and Moten R. and Roy Clyde and his sister was Cora Belle. Your mother was Ella May Stowe, she was born 06/27/1876 and died 05/09/1948. Your grandfather was 00:30:00Coleman Robert Bruce, he was born in 1847 and died in 1926. His broth--your uncles and aunts was--his brothers and sisters was Pleasant Alfred, James A. (ph), John H. (ph), Richard H., Moten (ph), Charles F. (ph), Wesley A., George Washington (ph), Adam Vivian, Alpha Ann, Laura E. (ph), Susie Jane, Dora Ree (ph) and Katie V.

LB: There was a bunch of them.

MM: And his wife was Alpha Ann Moore, she was born in 1848 and died in 1923. Your grandfather--your great-greatfather, then, was James Thomas Bruce, he was born August 1824 and married in March 1846, he married Francis S. Vivian

pause in recording as tape switches to Side B

MM: --Bruce was born December 1802 and died March 1885, he was married Elizabeth L. Swinney and I think that's enough of the tree to go back on there. I just found the tree on his father's side. His mother's tree is here also but I don't think we'll run anything on it. This was from Leo Bruce's family Bible. Leo, what do you remember--what did you think about Pinehill? What does it mean to you?

LB: Well I was--I don't know how to describe it. I really liked the community 00:32:00out there, you know, and of course the mental [indecipherable] child, why, they usually appreciate or like the child more than they do after they get grown and have to get out and face the--

BM: Face the world.

LB: --cold, cold world.

MM: Well, you were never really apart from it. Your folks has always been there, you've been back and forth the whole dang--your life, haven't you?

LB: Mmm-hmm. Yeah, I remember several times that we moved to town here, why, during my school vacation, why, I would go out there and when I'd go out there, why, I planned to stay all summer! And spend the summer vacation out there. But just a little while I, I'd get homesick, I'd want to see my folks and come back to Sapulpa and that, that'd be about the end of my vacation.

BM: About the end of your vacation.

MM: What'd you do on vacation out there?

LB: Well, they--I pretended to help a little with the farming and I remember my 00:33:00grandfather Coleman Bruce, he and I fished a lot and I really enjoyed that.

MM: Where'd you fish?

LB: Fished in Polecat.

MM: What'd you catch?

LB: Well, we didn't catch anything but little old--little fish. Perch and catfish. Sunfish.

MM: Did you ever hunt?

LB: Not much. I've hunted some but I'm not much of a hunter.

MM: Where was your swimming hole?

LB: Well the main swimming hole there was--it was in Polecat there, and it was just this side of where, where we lived, you know, when Don went to school there 00:34:00at Pinehill. Just this side there, down--walk to what would be the south side of the road there, just a little ways from the road.

MM: Did you get in on them watermelon stealing on them summer vacations?

LB: No, I can't remember stealing any watermelons. But I can remember, I can remember the Polecat there, it wasn't anything like it was in later years. I can remember one place on further down--can you two remember where the falls was?

BM: Yes. I do.

LB: I think since Heyburn's been built, Heyburn dam's been built there, I guess there's not any falls there anymore, it's filled up. But just above--just north of where the falls were there, I can remember at one time there was a big hole there and it was deep. And I can remember several times, people talking about 00:35:00it, that they were impressed with it--that you could take regular cane fishing pole, you know, and you couldn't--

BM: Couldn't touch bottom.

LB: Couldn't touch bottom.

BM: Now, was that the hole that they call the old Blokesie (ph) Hole?

LB: I wouldn't know. I [inaudible].

MM: Was any hunting done, any--do you remember any hunting?

LB: Well, not to speak of. I can remember my uncle Frank Bruce, I can remember that he hunted quite a bit and I can't be sure about that. I don't know--I noticed you said that in the [indecipherable] there, you read where they sold quails on the market, but I can't--I don't know if he ever sold quail on the market or not. But I can remember he had a bird dog that he was real proud of, 00:36:00and that poor old dog would--he hunted with him so much that he had, his feet would get sore. And I can remember he tried to--it wasn't a success, he couldn't do much good with it, but he would try to make shoes or moccasins for this poor old dog, for his feet. Course he wouldn't keep them, couldn't keep them on, you know, but that worried him a lot that--

BM: Thought the old dog's feet would get so sore.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

MM: Do you remember any of the early oil industry in there, or anything like that?

LB: Well now, see, when I had the store out there they had a (pause) I think they called it a booster station, didn't they, the Texas Oil Company had a 00:37:00station right down below the hill there from where the store was.

BM: Be out west.

LB: And, yes, that's right. They worked several men, I don't--I can't remember how many men, but there were several men worked there. And I know they had a telegraph operator. Of course they had the old line that went right along with the pipeline there, you know.

MM: What, did they send messages to local people if they needed it?

LB: No, not much, they may have but I didn't hear of it. But they used it for the old business down there. But I can remember that the line walkers--they'd have a line walker that would walk this line and I think they had [inaudible] can remember more than one line walker that they had that'd stop in there at the store and--

MM: Do you remember any flooding caused at Polecat before the dam up in that area?

LB: No, I don't think it flooded much but I can remember that--I can remember the creek would really get high and they had more rain than they have now. I can remember you hear could the creek roar. You could hear the roar of the waters. I remember one time, I don't know whether it would be of interest to you or not, it wasn't very important, but really made an impression on me when--you see, my grandfather, that was the house where I was born as I remember it. They referred to it as the Old Stockade House. The logs were built, or placed, up-and-down and 00:39:00not--how do I want to say it? Horizontal?

BM: They were vertical but wasn't horizontal.

LB: Mmm-hmm. And it was a story-and-a-half house, I guess. See, I know they had rooms or a room up above, they had a stairway I know. But I know that was the house where I was born, this Old Stockade House. Well I can remember one time my uncle Mote Bruce--we were going from that--as I remember it, now--we were, I was behind him on a horse, and we were trying to go from this Old Stockade House over to where my parents lived there at the foot of the hill where I told you about. I can remember the creek being up. And it was probably right there about where the bowl where the falls was, you can remember there was a crossing there. And I remember that he stopped there on the--

BM: Bank of the creek.

LB: --other side of the bank of the creek and watched that water for, oh, several minutes. He didn't say anything, you know, just sit there, we sit there on the horse and just watching the water. And he finally said to me, he says, Now Leo, you hang on to me real tight, you hear? Of course that made an impression on me and I grabbed ahold of him and we slid down into the water there. And course the water came right up to our waist, you know, we were--and all you could see of the poor old horse was just his head and ears sticking up there right in front of us and I can remember the logs and stuff floating down the river, the creek there. And I can remember that horse was really pulling, 00:41:00but we swam the creek to get on the other side but I never knew what was so important that he had to get from my grandfather's house over there back to our house. He might've just been wanting to get rid of me! (laughs) He swam that creek to get--

BM: He swam the creek with the old horse to--

LB: To get back to where [indecipherable].

BM: To get back--

MM: I believe you told me one time about you and Charlie Blythe watching the first surrey with a fringe on top. Do you remember that? It was there at your grandpa's, and--

LB: Yes, I just barely, I can remember. Well, I can remember that was kind of a, kind of a meeting place for a lot of people over the country there at my 00:42:00grandparents' house. I think Charlie--seems like I can remember Charlie stopping in there more than once--

MM: What about surrey with a fringe on top?

LB: --on Sundays, you know. But what I remember, one time, there was a surrey that crossed that little--there was a little--oh, we called it--it was probably Cherry Creek. It was Cherry Creek would've been right there. I can remember that surrey with a fringe on top coming and crossing that creek and coming up right up by our--my grandparents' house.

MM: Was it pretty or what--

LB: But who they were--yeah, it was, I thought it was a really fancy carriage. But I can't remember who was driving it, who they were, or anything about it.

BM: You can still drive down--or you could, you could still drive down to that old crossing there on Cherry Creek. You could here a few years back. I don't know whether you still can or not. Down by where the Old Stockade House was. There was a cross there, that was the roadway where the crossing was there on 00:43:00Cherry Creek, went right down to Polecat, on down to just above what they call the lower falls.

LB: Those lower falls, I don't know if I was ever right at that location or not. But I can remember the people speaking of the lower falls and--

BM: Now, this next summer, when we present and dedicate this thing to the state of Oklahoma, we'd like--I want you to come out and if the Lord is willing, I'll try to take you back up Polecat as far as we can and show you where the old falls that you remember crossing on the horse, where it is located today and show you where the old lower falls were there on Polecat and try to show you 00:44:00where the old roadway used to go down through there.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

BM: You can drive down quite a ways down in there by where the Old Stockade House used to be. What you would--at the present time you would have to cross from where you lived there where the house burned for Troy and Plessie (ph) lived, and it burned, you would have to come back east across Cherry Creek, to Cherry Creek. There's Little Cherry and Big Cherry Creek. Big Cherry Creek--

LB: Yeah, that's what I was wondering about--

BM: Big Cherry Creek was the one that you were talking about the old crossing was down by the Old Stockade House--

MM: I don't think you asked him where his property he owns out there is.

BM: --come back to where, oh, it's about two hundred yards east of Little Cherry 00:45:00Creek, there's a road that goes south, goes back off down, winds back around, down almost to where the Old Stockade House used to be. And where the old crossing was down here. At the present time I think Louis or Andrew, one of them, has it fenced in and you can't drive all the way down to where the old crossing was.

LB: I was--oh, several times I went over there when we lived out there, you know, in the house that burned, you know, when Troy and Plessie (ph) lived there. I went there several times, I went over to that location but it's changed 00:46:00so much, it's--

BM: It's really changed now.

LB: --wouldn't, wouldn't know it was the same place.

BM: It's changed, it's changed altogether now to what it was then, even.

MM: Ask him where his property is [inaudible].

BM: The property that you still own out there at the present time, Leo, where is it located?

LB: Well, it's right there at the corner of the road where the road, one road goes over to what is Shepherd Point and the other [inaudible] and seventy acres.

BM: You own seventy acres there.

LB: But I really don't own that place because--see, I just had forty acres and that road goes right through that forty so forty in here a few years ago, I 00:47:00bought the surface thirty acres from the allottee, I forget who she was, she lives down at Okmulgee. That joins there on the west there, thirty acres, so I really have what you and me would call for seventy acres but the road takes up a lot of it, I don't know how many acres [inaudible]. But part of that goes right where the, goes right up where--you remember where Loyd Bruce used to live there. I don't know, you folks--did you ever [inaudible]. Because that's--oh, Mastersons lived there a while, one of them.

BM: Yeah, right there in the corner, say, Roy Bruce had the house right there in the corner with a cedar tree in the yard.

LB: Yeah. Mmm-hmm.

BM: We didn't live there in that corner there. Dan, Dan Masterson (ph) lived there in the corner. And Louis lived south over there on--well, just north of the Old Stockade House.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

BM: Where the Old Stockade House was.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

BM: And we lived on south down there, well it'd just be right there on the banks of the creek. And we moved over in the field, back over west of there in a field by the old Blokesie (ph) hole, the old swimming hole.

LB: Mmm-hmm.

MM: [Inaudible.]

BM: Then we moved back up--

end of recording.