Wendell List

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EC: Let's see. Now your name is Wendell List, right?

WL: Wendell O list.

EC: Wendell O List. And this is July the 16th. Why don't we just start then. Tell me how you happen to come to Bristow.

WL: Well, my dad and I bought the Ford agency here in 1923, and we took possession of it the 1st of October, 1923.

EC: Okay. Where'd you come from?

WL: We came from Tulsa.

EC: Okay.

WL: I was, I was just outta high school. I graduated from Tulsa High School, Central High School, when there were, that was the only high school up there, of course. And that was the, the year that they had the race riots.

EC: That's right. Okay.

WL: And I, the, the race riot has become more and more wild and wicked. Ever 00:01:00since that time. I was all through the whole thing.

EC: Oh, were you?

WL: Yes.

EC: Well, that didn't have much to do with Bristow, but tell me what you do know about it. I've heard some of those conflicting stories.

WL: Well, the latest story I've heard was that there was 39 people killed in the Tulsa race riots, and I can almost guarantee that there was only three.

EC: Is that right?

WL: Yeah, there was only three, and I was all over the territory. All over the thing because Paul Jankowsky, whose father was the, the Palace Clothiers in Tulsa, he owned the Palace Clothiers down at Fifth and Main.

EC: Yeah.

WL: And Paul lived very close to me, and he came down in his car and took us 00:02:00down to the police station. We parked close up by the police station and parked. And then by the time we parked and walked over to the police station, there was a, an officer came out and handed each one of us a shotgun, told us to go shoot a nigger. And I said, hell, I'm not gonna shoot anybody. I'm not gonna shoot anybody. But he said, well, take the gun anyway. He said, you, he said, well, what do you want us to do? He said, all right. You go over on Greenwood and there'll be some officers over there, some people in charge, and they'll tell you what to do. And so they put us searching houses for the people who were still around, you know, most of 'em had already fled, but there was quite a few people still in these houses, they'd just holed up. So we were searching every house. We had four men search each house, and two of us would go into the house each time. One would cover the other one with a shotgun while the first man 00:03:00walked in. And if there was more than one room, we had to enter with the man that walked in the front door, he'd, he'd hold his gun on the behind the back up the other fella, and he'd go in next to him. We just stair stepped each other into the complete house.

EC: Yeah.

WL: And every once in a while we'd find somebody, of course they were scared, terrified, but we'd take 'em out in the street and just tell 'em, stand there and somebody take 'em along. So we'd accumulate quite a few and we'd, a couple of us would take 'em down and put 'em in a congregation point. At one time we had about a thousand congregated down there on Standpipe Hill, and there was four of us that marched a thousand down. Well, an officer told us we'd been taking 'em to the, to the what do they call the old convention hall? They called it The Old Lady of Brady Street.

EC: Oh, yeah, yeah.

WL: Well, we had already decorated this, this place for our graduation. But by the time. It was time for our graduation where they they had about 6,000 blacks in there for protective custody and they were searching all of 'em out on the front porch. There must have been a pile of razors and pocket knives and just different kind of knives and weapons of that sort. We took 'em all away from 'em before we let 'em inside the building and they they had must have had a pile there, but then, 15 or 20 feet across. Must have been a foot deep in the middle. A tremendous amount of, but they put 'em in there until that was completely filled. And then they put the surplus over what that building would hold and convention off, and they took 'em down to McNulty Park, which was in the 00:05:00baseball field down on 11th Street and we took two groups down there about, oh, anywhere from five or six hundred to maybe a thousand. We just put 'em inside because these people were afraid that somebody would see them. Now, this early this morning, I saw one black that had been shot and they told us that there was another one that had had been wounded, that didn't get killed when they had they had had turned these baggage trucks down at the depot. They had turned them over and using them for barricades. And there was one, one body down there in the railroad yard. And then we saw one other body, and then I heard of another one who had been killed. And I believe that I'm accurate in saying that three was all that was killed. At the end of the race riot, the last newspaper article I 00:06:00saw sometime around three or four, five months ago, claimed then that there was 39 killed. And I'm sure that, that highly exaggerated. I don't think that's true at all.

EC: In fact, there was stories I guess about machine guns being set up and bodies being loaded in the box cars.

WL: And some of the wildest tales that you ever heard in your life. And the tails have gotten wilder and bigger ever since this happening.

EC: Yeah.

WL: And it's now, the last report I read in the paper said 39 killed. And I'm certain that that was an error. I didn't know that it couldn't have.

EC: And you said Paul Jankowsky was with you?

WL: Yes, we were some of this together all day.

EC: Oh good.

WL: And but we walked after, after we got over into Greenwood, we parked the car over there and just walked all around and we searched these {indecipherable] for 'em. Oh, I guess about five or six hours. And then we started transporting 'em 00:07:00down to get them in protective custody so it got heard. Well, that might be an interesting story.

EC: Yes.

WL: Very little Bristow..

EC: I understand.

WL: But I'd seen Bristow.

EC: But, but I have read the thesis on the race riot, or rather, I know there is one, and I've heard about it all these years.

WL: Well, the way it started they had taken some a black boy in custody. He tried to assault a an elevator girl in one of the buildings there along, late at night, and they took him down to jail and put him in jail. And there was a group of other blacks, little [indecipherable], I think like they were, but they came down there and they were gonna release him, and they called in all the officers that were not on duty and just made a ring around the courthouse. And they were they were having a little hassle there on the steps. And in, in the many one of 00:08:00the blacks grabbed for one of these, Officer's guns. And when it did, the gun went off and they were quite, a crowd had gathered and it shot one of bystanders across the street, shot her in the, in the thigh. And, of course, she started raising a lot of fuss about that. Hollering screaming. So they they called an ambulance for her of course. And then all these blacks run, they ran down Main Street. Off Main Street, right? Petty much all around the jail at that time was they all ran down and they all gathered again down at the depot. And that's where that [indecipherable] little battle started. As near as I could tell, one and possibly two were all that were killed there. And then during the rest of the riot, there was another one killed and he ran from some guys and that shot him.

EC: Well, getting back to Bristow there. How did you, your father, happen to pick Bristow? Was it just because the agency was available or was there some other--

WL: No, actually, an aunt of mine, I got a call. My aunt's [indecipherable], Mr. EM Vanderslice (ph) was a Ford dealer in Tulsa, the only Ford dealer they had at that time. He also owned Ford agencies in Claremore and Pawhuska and Claremore. And I believe another one or two at that time you could, yeah, you [indecipherable]. And he also had the Ford Tractor Agency for area. And so he got killed in an accident in a freight yard. He got caught between two freight railway cars. [Indecipherable] engine bumped two cars together and caught him between and killed him. Well, my dad was her closest relation, and so he was, he 00:10:00went down to [indecipherable] at Harrisonville, Missouri, and that summer I had grad, I hadn't graduated, I had just finished the junior class and I came to Tulsa, went to Tulsa Central High for my 1921 year, and graduated from Tulsa Central High School that spring. But then from then we went to Claremore and operated the Claremore place for a couple years. And then we came back to Tulsa and we operated a motor rebuilding plant there, dad and I did. And about that time I this Agency became available here in Bristow and so we, my dad and I bought the partnership. Both equal partners. When we bought this agency here in 1923, we bought it the first day of September. And took, took it over on the 00:11:00first day of October. My dad was down here all that time, but he didn't actually take possession until the first day of October, 1923

EC: Was the oil boom still on in Bristow?

WL: That place the oil boom is pretty well over by that time, however, most of the oil field work was still being carried on with teams. And they had these big groups of people who were [indecipherable]. They had like that type work and they had a lot of cases of photos here. Can't remember, I can't remember his name right offhand this little [indecipherable], you know, to remember.

EC: Sure.

WL: But he was quite a well-known fellow and there was a fellow here named Williams. It was a [indecipherable], and he was also a wrestler and they had 00:12:00professional wrestling in Bristow at the time. And most of the wrestling was [indecipherable] on at a building, which is now the J&J Cafe down on south main.

EC: Yeah. Right.

WL: And then they also had some of their, their wrestling matches in the theaters. The old Walmur Theater is where the Community State is now located. And at that time, why they were all silent movies.

EC: That's the, I'm gonna ask you. I don't know for sure when, which movie started. I've heard of the Walmur . I've heard of the Princess, the Star, and I don't know which one.

WL: They were all here as I remember. I believe they were all here at the time that I was here. And then the the Walmur Theater had vaudeville quite a bit of the time. And they had regular vaudeville shows came in here. And then they had 00:13:00these touring shows came through.

EC: You were still young enough. Were you married by then?

WL: No, I, I was.

EC: Okay. You were young enough and single. What did a single young man do in Bristow for entertainment or,

WL: Well, about, about the only entertainment there was in the summertime, of course, we had the old Coles Park, which had a swimming pool, and that was the only swimming pool around here, with the exception of, of going to the creek or something like that. But also, we made friends with Louie Meyer's dad over at Sapulpa, and he had that, he had that big home and a big pond in [indecipherable] bath house and all that. So, we'd get dates and go over there and go swimming over there. The park had a little swimming pool about 10 feet 00:14:00wide and probably 25 feet long, and they had a little bath house out there and that's all there was there. But they also had camping facilities around the area and that's where the Elk's Club is located now.

EC: Oh, okay.

WL: That's the same location as the old Cole's Park.

EC: Yeah.

WL: And let's see what else might be, oh yes. One of the, let's see if I can remember the name of it. On East sixth Street, just east of the alley from Main Street was an old hotel. And don't remember the name of it, but I'm sure there a lot of people, remember the name of, the name of that hotel. But Joe Orr--

EC: The Laurel.

WL: Yeah, Laurel. That's it. The Laurel Hotel. Thank you for reminding. It was the old Laurel Hotel and it was on that corner, which is vacant at the present. 00:15:00And it was a two story hotel, and it was more, I think, more of a honky tonk for gals and all. They were available there at all times. And then the rooming houses upstairs, up and down Main Street were also had girls available in nearly all of 'em because after, during the boom and after the boom, these were oil field workers and they, they drank [indecipherable] and they had the facilities to take care of them.

EC: Right. What about oh, I guess jumping ahead a little bit, but what effect did the Depression have on Bristow?

WL: As far as we were concerned, we never did notice it too much. The [indecipherable] business fell off and everybody, everybody came tightening their belts and all that sort of thing. But actually, most of us was somewhat of a primitive type and the Depression didn't hurt us too much. Of course there was 00:16:00lot people, [indecipherable]. And we had to do what they called their soup lines with the merchants around town. There was no federal assistance or anything at that time. But the I don't think there was any federal assistance anyway, the merchants and, and people who had a little money donated money to provide bread and soup, and that's about all they got at those. But they they had these places where they could use an empty store building and they'd make great big cups full of soup and serve soup, and that's about all. But that was enough to keep 'em alive.

EC: Backing up a little. You hear when the radio station was over here?

WL: Oh, yes. Yes. Ed Rollestone, [indecipherable] and previous to him though they had a radio station right down here in the old Chevrolet building they had up here on the second floor, this building right down here.

EC: They had one first.

WL: Yes, they had one first, a small one. And I don't know whether Ed was 00:17:00financially involved in that one. I'd rather think not, but it was in the second floor of the three-story building right here at Mercer's.

EC: Yeah, that's the first time I've heard of that I think.

WL: Merritt one of the Delanos named Merritt. Let's see, what was the other Delano boy's name?

EC: Boyd.

WL: Do you remember? Remember Merritt was one of them. And then also back in about that same somewhere, right along in there, we had a big glass plant move in to Bristow and they had a glass plant right over here about in the location where the city water well over there on, on 12th Street and they produced bottles. I think about the only thing they built over there.

EC: Getting one question about the radio that you may not know. I've been told they started a radio station here and it was KFRU.

WL: Correct.

EC: And then somebody told me that KFRU was sold to, they thought Columbia, Missouri, it was sold. Then KVOO was started.

WL: [Indecipherable] sold the original KFRU equipment and all to the this college in Columbia, Missouri. And then KVOO was started.

EC: It was KVOO right here in Bristow?

WL: Yeah, I think so. And then they they sold it out, Ed Rollestone sold it to [indecipherable] to people in Tulsa. I don't know. I don't know whether they, I don't know who bought it or, but at the time we had here, some of the main entertainment was Jimmy Wilson and his Catfish Band, and they broadcast as if they were on the [indecipherable].

EC: What was the, the first station you're talking about started by Delano taken over by Rollestone, or had gone out of business?

WL: No, he just, he just quit. I think. However, I think it's that one I think bought some of the equipment that the Delanos had down there.

EC: I see.

WL: And his was down there in the second floor [indecipherable].

EC: Who, is there anybody around you think would know the details of that first station still? Because that's the first I've heard of it.

WL: Oh, really?

EC: Mm-hmm.

WL: I had the first portable radio in this town.

EC: Did you?

WL: In an automobile? At that time, all of the receivers were these high price, expensive [indecipherable] or I forget the name of the other one, but they were very complicated. [Indecipherable] had about a dozen dials on them. And you got more static than you got sound. And they were tremendously difficult to operate. Oh, almost took an engineer just to operate one. They had a big harness set up 00:20:00on top and, but all, all of us kids found out that the that you could make a crystal set. Now, I don't know whether you ever saw a crystal.

EC: Oh yes, I made one once.

WL: But you used a little chunk of coal, and what we used anyway. And we had a tickler on it and a coax, which we could tune to the frequency of the station. We'd set that tickler on the top of the car, and had a headset that we could listen to the radio from. So I got the idea [indecipherable] at the time, so I had a, a Ford coupe and I took copper screen wire and put it underneath my headlining in the top of this coupe. And then I took this kicker and put it on it, that crystal deal, and I got back on it so it wouldn't work away from that. But you couldn't drive, you couldn't drive and listen to the radio at the same time, but I'd take my girlfriend out. Now, I couldn't go over careful, 00:21:00[indecipherable] I had a hole drilled on my floorboard and I could jam this grounding rod into the dirt through this hole in the in the floorboard. And I had two sets of ear phones. And you, you and your girlfriend both sit there, listen to the radio. However, it was always difficult to make love with a, with pairs of headphones on. But but we had but I had, I had to monopoly on all the best dates in town for a while until these other guys caught up and started building them themselves and after they did that, well of course all I filled 'em up on these sets like mine.

EC: Yep. Yeah.

WL: But we'd one of the, one of the city park was out. We got real good reception and also it was an isolated place, that was before the lake, was what 00:22:00I had. And it was all woods in there. And we'd go out there and park in these woods down there and listen to our radio.

EC: Okay. Well that, that's interesting. What effect was any particular effect of World War II on Bristow, other than just what you'd expect?

WL: Well, they made a great deal more ceremony out of out of the war than we have in any subsequent time. At that time, whenever a group of boys were going to the army they always had the band out and they gave 'em a big sendoff and they always transported them on the train nearly always. And everybody in town would be the station. Maybe we'd have 20 or 25 young fellows going, but everybody would gather down at the railroad station and send them off with a big 00:23:00band playing and everybody, all that sort of thing.

EC: Yeah.

WL: But it was quite a ceremony. And then the troop trains came here through here all the time. After they were inducted, they were all over the country. They were being [indecipherable] for training [inaudible].

EC: A business like Bristow, it went through its cotton days before you came, really.

WL: And at the time I came here, I believe there were seven or eight cotton gins in operation. The biggest thing, yeah, two biggest ones were Kelly's that's Albert Senior and he was, one of them was down on the south lane, right there at the railroad track, and the other one was down here on east seventh street. The building is now destroyed there.

EC: And then of course, the oil business came in and after...

WL: All business is already pretty well established. I think our main oil boom 00:24:00in Bristow was somewhere around 1921, 22 I think.

EC: And then somewhere along in the [inaudible].

WL: Established the peanut mill, which is still, the building's still there quite a bit, and there between the second and third street on South Main. And he bought, oh I don't know, 10 or 20 peanut washing machines that the boys could come in and borrow and harvest a peanut, huh. Very beneficial in promoting this peanut business. And it did give us a shot in the arm because it was one of the biggest money crops that we had had up until that time. The cattle business, of course, was pretty good, but primarily we were a row cropping community at that during those years, they raised corn and cotton, and of course, cotton was our primary. And I remember we had seven cotton gins, but the peanut business turned 00:25:00out to be a real good thing until they promoted it to such a degree all over the southwest that they got a surplus of peanuts and they started in a [indecipherable] acres you could plant in peanuts. Well, that soon they just kept a lot cutting their allotments down to the point, wasn't very long, [indecipherable] maybe they'd been planting two acres and they'd get down to maybe a third of an acre or something like that, and they wouldn't fool with 'em on the basis they couldn't produce. So, the peanut business died out when the allotments got so bad.

EC: When did they start to promote the [inaudible] something fairly recent or has that been going on?

WL: I don't, I don't remember the date, but really the first, first thing here I can remember really a great magnitude was the garment factory out here, and I don't remember exactly what year that was, but the Chamber of Commerce pulled a 00:26:00shenanigan to build that thing. It was as illegal, I think, as anything could possibly been. But what the did, the parking lots down here [inaudible].

EC: Well, has there been or have there been obstacles which you're aware [indecipherable] Bristow, I've heard, for example, there have been problems with housing [inaudible] its size [inaudible].

WL: RL Jones, who lives right out the edge town out here were principle land owners around here. RL owned nearly all the land west of town around the the city park and all out through there. And Albert Kelly and RL Jones had the 00:27:00growth pretty well shut off on the north and they wouldn't sell any land to anybody. So the growth had to be constrained to was constrained to just south and east pretty well. But they were both real civic minded in a way, except that they wouldn't sell their land. All they wanted to do was buy more. All they wanted was what joined them. That's all. And out there nearly all this paving around Bristow was put in after I came here. Main Street, however, was paved when I came here, as I remember.

EC: Well, have there been any particular events that you either witnessed during this time, heard about that maybe not everybody knows about that are worth 00:28:00recording, preserving? You weren't involved in any of the bank robberies or?

WL: Well, I was here when they happened and I was here when two of the banks went broke. The First National went broke there, hit [inaudible] and I can't remember the dates of any. But the first one that went broke was the First State Bank over on the corner where, Pacific Finance is over there, the corner of Seventh and Main on the east southeast corner. And that was a bank in there and it went broke. But it so happened we owed them more than than we had in it. And so we got all our money back by just paying off the balance of our notes. And then when the Groom Bank went broke, and that's the National Bank, and that's the northwest corner of Seventh and Main that was run by the Groom brothers. And it was my understanding that they lost the bank's money speculating in Florida 00:29:00real estate.I don't think they profited from it, but they broke the bank. And Mr. Freeland was around here then he was a big operator in Florida real estate, and he'd made a lot of money, but he didn't take any, and got caught in the, in the, in the Depression when, when he lost all his fortune. Pretty well in that.

EC: Yeah,

WL: It's Purdy. I'm sure you've heard of him.

EC: Yes sir.

WL: You know, kind of, he lived in this house, right yonder, back there on 10th Street Clad, everybody called him Clad Purdy, he ran a insurance place here and he was quite influential in town for a long time. [inaudible] was related 00:30:00[inaudible] in some way was related to, I think it was Ed's wife's brother, possibly. And he was an artist, organist, and piano player. And he was one of the principal entertainers on [inaudible] they'd have kids come up and sing and they'd have [inaudible].

EC: People will tell me that that was the first radio station in the United States. And then there are others that say it was the first one in Oklahoma. And I don't know for a fact about even that.

WL: I don't think it was even the first in Oklahoma, because there were some others I think, operating at the time. But it was one of the main ones. There were very few at that time. It was a new enterprise altogether. Ed, Ed Rollestone was wealthy from all them, and he he was the one that put it in and promoted.

EC: Speaking of newspapers, I, I'm supposed to talk to Mr. Cook,

WL: Who's IL Cook who ran the paper here for years.

EC: Well, what's the story? I've heard that Cook and Nichols had quite a fight going over something. I don't know what.

WL: The main deal over that was that Cook put in a competitive newspaper.

EC: Ah.

WL: And Nichols tried to run him out of town.

EC: I see.

WL: But, but IL survived him and finally bought his old newspaper after he died.

EC: Is that right? Okay.

WL: And IL Cook still lives here.

EC: Alright. And then the present owner bought it from Cook.

WL: That's right.

EC: Okay.

WL: Yeah, he sold it to him alright. But IL Cook is still here in town and I'm sure his, with his and his wife too. They both were in the newspapers. And I feel like that either one of 'em would be invaluable sources of a lot of, not quite as early as maybe I'm familiar with, but they'd have a probably a more comprehensive idea of a lot of these things than I would because that was their 00:32:00business, keeping track of news. Competitors were not were not friendly in any respect.

EC: When was that? In the thirties?

WL: Back before then, I believe.

EC: Before then?

WL: Yeah, before the thirties I believe. Alright. I'm not very good or sure on dating on things like that.

EC: Well, you think it was primarily a business rivalry? It wasn't anything.

WL: There was nothing personal because they didn't even know each other personally.

EC: There was Democrat passed against Republicans or something like that.

WL: They were all Democrats, Uhhuh. There's never I I been any preponderance of anybody but Democrats in this.

EC: Right.

WL: In this county.

EC: What about politics? You ever get involved in politics in Bristow?

WL: No, not particularly. I run for mayor one time and they beat my tail, but I was very unhappy with a lot of the things that were going on, and I thought that I could put the city of Bristow on a business basis, rather on a political basis, but they didn't agree with me.

EC: So as politics, as far as city elections are concerned, has it been a, a 00:33:00partisan thing or just an individual thing?

WL: I think probably more of it is between Democrats.

EC: Yeah.

WL: As far as the Republican minority, they never were able to do much. But we've had, we've had a few Republican mayors, I believe OG Ross was a Republican mayor, and his daughter, Mrs. Curtis Turner lives here now. And they're living in the old OG Ross home.

EC: I believe there's been a few Republican County commissioners.

WL: Yes, that's right. That's true. But I think I think this community around here has largely been. In favor of the individual. And I don't think it made that much difference between a Republican and Democrat. We never did, I didn't feel like, adhere to party lines at all.

EC: City elections are pretty nonpartisan?

WL: I think so. Yes. I believe so. Most of our people that get elected to things 00:34:00are well known people that have been around here for quite a while, and they vote for 'em on their personality and not their politics.

EC: Now we started talking about the Tulsa race riot. How have race relations been in Bristow?

WL: Race relations in Bristow have never been strained in any manner. My wife was teaching school here when the integration came to the school. And there's never been a, an incident of any, of, any consequence at all as far as the integration of the, of the races at all. Now, of course they do have, they did have a few little difficulties with maybe blacks, so that they had the same number with the whites, but the black schools over here, way over here on west tenth,yeah, I guess they're on west tenth. And it's now private [indecipherable] 00:35:00over there. They tore down most of the buildings, but Haskell Thompson now lives in the, the grade school building over there and they converted it into a residence. But they had a big gymnasium over there and they used to have all their basketball games and everything, and it was a, it was a big deal to go to one of the black basketball games. They're enthusiastic. I mean, the rooters are.

EC: Well, I understand high school athletics have been fairly important to a town like Bristow.

WL: Bristow has been fortunate in either having good coaches, I think Hafer of course was the forerunner of our better athletic team. See, Hafer, who was still alive, I think saw him now over a couple years ago, and he lives in Edmond at present time. But EC Hafer is who our football field is named after. And, after he started this football going in a big way, we've had some excellent football 00:36:00teams. The fact is we've won the championship and been in the playoffs year after year years. Any football season is a highlight of Bristow and I think.

EC: I've heard that when the games were held in the afternoon, which they may still be for all I know, that they used to close down the businesses and--

WL: But there's that one game in particular, we used to play Sapulpa and of course the Sapulpa game was always a, a very tense game because of the fact that Sapulpa and Bristow vied with each other to get the, the the county seat. And Sapulpa, we claimed stole it from us. And I don't know how true that is, but we always claim that Sapulpa stole it from Bristow because we were the logical winner. We should have been it, but we didn't get it right. And, but it did start a rivalry, which never did cease until we kept quit playing them. They got 00:37:00so large, we were not in their conference anymore, and we didn't, we haven't played them for several years now, seven or eight years. But football has been a, has been a major activity of the high school. They play basketball and track and those other things. We have, by the way though, had some outstanding track people from this town. We got Jack Carmen, who still lives here. He was one of the best hurdlers. He held a hurdle championship for the state Oklahoma for years. That was before they put 'em in conference. You just competed against everybody. And then Sammy Allen was another hurdler from this town, and he was much later than that Jack Carmen. But he was outstanding and held several state championships in hurdles.

EC: Well, I know that there are a lot of things that I haven't touched on. Is 00:38:00there something I should have asked you about that comes to mind that ought to be preserved?

WL: Well, and one thing that you might be interested in, when I first came to Bristow, there were very few highways around here except just dirt roads. One of the first highway markings, I believe, was the old Ozark Trail. . And all it was, was a band of green and white paint around a tree or a fence post with [indecipherable] printed on this. And that was the original marking for any highway around Bristow. At that time, you could get lost a half a dozen times going from here to Tulsa. Because you just went on the section line roads.

EC: Yeah.

WL: And of course, many times you'd get on a road no longer passable with an automobile. At that time, when we first came here, we never thought of driving to Tulsa and trying to transact any business without staying all night and coming back the next day because the roads were so poor.

EC: Sure, sure.

WL: That with the transportation that we had and the roads that we had, you'd consume hours just, yeah.

EC: And you went to through Sapulpa even then, didn't you?

WL: Yes. Uhhuh went through Sapulpa, but there were no paving.

EC: The Ozark Trail, huh?

WL: Yeah. Have you ever heard of it?

EC: I've heard of the Ozark Trail, but I had no idea where it was.

WL: Well, I don't know where it started, but it started, I think, somewhere around Oklahoma City and went to Springfield, Missouri. And that I think was the first.