Cecelia Wittman

Interviewer: Georgia Smith

Interviewee: Cecelia Wittman

Other Persons:

Date of Interview: August 18, 2020

Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma

Transcriber: Abby Thompson

Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-03 at 00:00 to 39:14

Abstract:

Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.'s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account.

To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible.

CW: Okay

GS: Okay, I'm sorry. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow Oklahoma, and this interview is part of the Historic Society's oral history project. The date is August 18th, 2020, and I am sitting here at the museum with Cecelia Wittman, who's going to tell me a little bit about her history in the Bristow area. Now, give me your full name please.

CW: Cecelia Loraine Wittman (ph)

GS: What was your name at birth?

CW: Cecelia Loraine Nutt, N-U-T-T

GS: And where were you born?

CW: In Tahlequah, Oklahoma

GS: Do you remember the hospital or at home?

CW: Hastings, Hastings Indian Hospital

GS: Again, you were born on what date?

CW: February the 20th in 1958

GS: And what was your father's name?

CW: Hershel Quintin Nutt (ph)

GS: And your mother's maiden name?

CW: Her name was Martha Yarbrough (ph)

GS: And do you know when they--when and where they were married?

CW: No, it was in the 1940's

GS: Okay, and why did they come to Oklahoma?

CW: Well, my father was from out in western Oklahoma, and my mother was born here, so.

GS: Okay, how many children did your parents have?

CW: There was five of us

GS: And what are your siblings' names?

CW: My oldest sister was Connie--Connie Sue Nutt (ph), and she was named after Conniesenny Tiger (ph), my great Grandmother. And she was born in 1949, so. Then I have another sister, her name is Lacricia Joe Nutt (ph), and then a brother, which was Joe'B Nutt, it's J-O-E Apostrophe B, just Joe'B

GS: Thank you

CW: Nutt, and my youngest sister, and then it was me, which I'm Cecelia and my youngest sister is Barbara Jean Nutt (ph), there was five of us.

GS: Nice family, what did your father do?

CW: He was a--a bull rider, bronc rider, he was a rodeo performer and before that, he was a jockey and--but he was raised on a cotton farm out in Etna, Oklahoma

GS: How exciting, how interesting. What did your mother do?

CW: He--But he was a welder--he was a welder by trade though, later on he became a welder.

GS: Okay, very good.

CW: The end, in the end he was a welder. My mother she was a house wife and she worked all over, she did everything and different things, but mainly she was a homemaker. But back in those days, you know, then she worked at different places along the way and she ended up retiring and working for this school system as a custodian in Glenpool, she retired there for 20 years.

GS: Very--when was she at Glenpool?

CW: Let's see, in 1980? From 19 maybe 79, late 70's till she retired.

GS: Okay, okay. What is your spouse's name?

CW: His name was George Wade Wittman, he's deceased. But it's George Wade Wittman Jr.

GS: Okay, and what year did you get, or when did you get married?

CW: We got married August the 29th of 1989.

GS: Aw, your anniversary's coming up

CW: Yes, it is

GS: How many children did you have?

CW: We had four, he had one son and I had two sons. It was both our second marriage and then between us, we had our youngest son, which was Jeramiah Joseph Wittman (ph).

GS: Okay, now tell me about what brought you in today to see me

CW: Well I wanted to talk about my grandmother's house that was built in 1925, and I don't--

GS: And who is your grandmother?

CW: Her name was Conniesenny Tiger, she would've been my great grandmother, and she--this was a part of the original allotment where the house is built, and back in the--with the removal act from when everybody was removed from the southeast, they were brought here and then the, all the Indians were brought here for, which you would refer to Native Americans today, but we still say we're Indian because we're the natives of this time. We're still in this era, this age group that I live in, and--

GS: Was your grandmother part of the journey, great grandmother?

CW: Yes, my great grandmother was. She said that she was--she was Conniesenny

GS: Conniesenny

CW: Senny, and she was--yes she was. And my mother said she arrived here when she was 9, when she was 9 years old she--

GS: She made that trek when she was 9?

CW: She arrived when she was 9, so we don't know anything prior to that

GS: Would you spell Conniesennys' name for our typist?

CW: Yes, let me get the card, let me see if I brought it. It's C-O-N-N-I-E-S-E-N-N-Y

GS: Tiger

CW: Tiger, T-I-G-E-R

GS: Okay, very good. Okay well tell me about all of your memories of your grandmother Conniesenny

CW: Well I have no actual memories; I just have stories to where what is related 00:06:00to my mother. She was--my mother was born in 1923 and so she was raised in the house that Conniesenny had built

GS: And where is that house?

CW: That is actually--it's 5.3, I think 5.3 miles south of Bristow, and I was told, so of course she had the original allotment, and back then you were allotted 160 acres. Each individual native American was allotted this called the Original Allotment, and she was an allottee, so this was her land and they struck oil on this land and then this--

GS: That's marvelous

CW: Yes, it was marvelous, and anyway according to the history, they said that what we would call the Bureau of Indian Affairs today, but it was called the 00:07:00Indian Department back then

GS: Okay

CW: Had, I guess they had their own architects and their own builders and their own people that went in and built different homes for native Americans, and she had this house built in 1925, according to History I think, I don't know.

GS: Was this before or after she struck oil?

CW: It was after she struck oil, so prior to that, and 1889 to I think 1906 is when they had the Dawes act (ph) was in commission and they began to record the history. At that time, they each individual had their row numbers and where their allotment was and where they were enrolled at, there was a census just like it is now, the 2020 census is going on, this census was taken for the 00:08:00Indians. But they kept track of all the Indians at that point.

GS: Okay

CW: So they were allotted this land through that row number, and so they were registered and had their allotments. Actually I think their allotments were given out before the enrollment. Anyway, she was, this land was hers and she--and years later, 'cus she was enrolled I think in 18, in the 1890's, I wanna say 1896 she was enrolled, she was already--she had already received her row number at this time, that's why she was documented

GS: How old was she then? Do you--

CW: It does--it says she was 45 at that time and age

GS: So had she been living south of Bristow?

CW: We don't know where, I don't know

GS: You don't know where

CW: I don't know when--I need to do some more digging and find out myself to where she--when she was actually allotted the land, I don't know that part, I don't know that date, and I don't know what time frame there was between 00:09:00her--for her age, what her marriage she was, and all that type of, before she had the house built.

GS: Okay

CW: Because she was 45 in the late 1890's and so she died in 1944

GS: Okay

CW: So the house was built in 1925

GS: Okay

CW: So they struck oil on her land and at that point and time, and fast forward, so my mother was raised in that house, my grandmother was born on 1905 and there's a whole other history that goes with that, and so my mother was born in 1923, and her siblings, she had--there was Martha Marie and John Wesley and they were all three raised, they were Hannah Browns (ph), my grandmother was Hannah 00:10:00Brown and she was shown, three children were raised there in that house, which one of those were my mother.

GS: In Conniesenny Tigers house

CW: In Conniesenny Tigers house

GS: Okay

CW: And my mother was her translator because my mother had gone to school because she was a full blood Yuchi, I need to probably specify that. They were all full bloods and my mother wasn't a full blood, but my grandmother, my great grandmother were full blood Yuchi

GS: That's--That is awesome

CW: And so my mother and her siblings were raised in this house so she was the oldest of the three, my mother was. And they just all through life and I don't think they sold the house until in the late 50's, before they sold the house.

GS: Now were you ever in that house as a child?

CW: No, I just remember coming by there as a child growing up and as I was returning back to Bristow, because by this time we had moved to Muscogee, and 00:11:00life goes on and my brother and my other sisters they were--they could have been but, and my oldest sister, she was born in 1949 and yes, she was there. She had memories, she just recently passed away this past June.

GS: Aw, I'm sorry

CW: I lost her in June of 2020, she passed away, but she grew--so when we got the house back, she was just amazed, she remembered all the memories of playing in the barn and in the house, what the house looked like, everything, all of her childhood memories. So she was there but I wasn't

GS: Now I have heard that this house has been called the Tiger mansion, can you describe it to me, the house?

CW: Well, it's a very sound. It's so well built, it was built to last and I remember the story that my mother said that Conniesenny told her which she called her grandma, she didn't call her Conniesenny, she called her--she said "grandma tell me", she wanted this house to last a lifetime, a hundred years. 00:12:00Build it to where it will last a hundred years is what she was thinking, and it has lasted a hundred years, it's still well built, it's very sound, still the beautiful concrete pillars. It's a brick home, it's a large three bedroom, has a huge basement, and it has six windows in each room, all this original wood is still there, the original doors, the original hardware, the original flooring, everything it's just--it's just still beautiful, beautiful as it's ever been. The baseboard, everything's still original.

GS: And you were fortunate to be able to purchase this recently

CW: Yes, I was, yes I was. And the people that had it previously, they did sell I think two or three times before [Indecipherable] was able to Lomous (ph), or 00:13:00Lumous (ph), I'm not sure how you pronounce it, her and her husband was Jack and they purchased it and they were caretakers, they--it was their home, you know. They treasured it, they took well care of it, and it was just preserved and that was dated, very dated in the kitchen. But apart from that, because it'd been remodeled and sort of 80's stuff, 70's and 80's but, you know, apart from all that, it's just a beautiful. The land itself is beautiful, the original fence is still there. Conniesenny, she also had a, this being her original allotment, she allotted one and a half acres to be our families cemetery, and it's still fenced off to this day with the exact same fencing that's around the house that the property sits on.

GS: How many family members do you have buried there?

CW: Oh a good twenty, a good twenty people

GS: That is wonderful

CW: My mother's there, my grandma Conniesenny's there, my husband's there, my 00:14:00father's there, my uncles, my aunts, everyone there. Of any importance; my mother-in-law is buried there, yeah it's a beautiful family and family history there.

GS: Can you tell-- it gets emotional, does it yeah?

CW: Yeah, yeah it does

GS: Can you tell me anything about, you might not know since you weren't here then, but about the Indian culture that was south of town at that time?

CW: Well now the culture goes deeper than people even know and realize that it's still there today, not only just within the property, so I'll back up here a little bit. So the 160 acres had already been--some of it had been sold off in the 50's, like I said when they sold the house, and they'd been divided up I think like in the, oh I'm not sure exactly what year all this had transpired, 00:15:00but there's different sections of the land has-- is, was gone, but there was still the 40 acres that the house sits on now. And that Jack and Burla (ph) were able to purchase. So it's the house and 40 acres, and so after Burla back to the house, she--a little bit of the history here, she I think ended up going to a retirement home or something and then after she lost her husband, and then she stayed there for years by herself. Well she--my nephew and different ones would stop in, my sister, different ones and I always stopped in and visited her and ask her if, how she was and if they could see the house because there was so much nostalgic memories that go there. My mother's memories have been there with my dad and him proposing to her and all kinds of beautiful memories that go 00:16:00there. And anyway, so we were able to purchase it again, it came up for sale but they hadn't listed it on the market yet and we had always requested that if you please, if anybody decides to sell it, please let us know before it goes out so we can get it back into our family.

GS: Yes

CW: And as it turns out, my husband and I went down in October and, of 2018. We went down there 2018 and we said "Oh let's go see it, let's go see it" and the opportunity came so we went and he said "Yeah, let's do it, you think you wanna do it?" I said "Of course you know I wanna do it"

GS: (Laughing)

CW: And so of course we were happy and I was able to get a few pictures that day with my husband and I and little did I know that a few months later that he would pass away

GS: Oh

CW: So--

GS: I'm sorry, know it's hard. How long were you married?

CW: 35 years

GS: 35 years is a long time.

CW: Yeah. I have it, I have it right here.

GS: Okay, I was trying to look around to see if I had Kleenex

CW: I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that

GS: No, you're fine.

CW: So my sons, of course by this time [Indecipherable] my husband had a stroke in 2016 and I resigned from my job to take care of him and so--and in 2018 like I said, we decided to purchase the house and we put a down payment on it and 00:18:00everything so one thing happened with the other then we went into the holidays, November, December, ya know. But January he got sick and went to the hospital, and he died February the 8th of 2019, and so we were in the process of selling our other house to get everything done, and so my sons, I have two older sons, and they picked up the ball and--

GS: Bless their hearts

CW: They knew I couldn't do it financially by myself, now when my husband was here we could've done it

GS: Right

CW: But he had retired from the American Airlines and had other incomes so, but my sons were able to pick up the ball and purchase it for us, and I moved there now and my sons and I are all entitled together--without my husband, but I'm there

GS: That's wonderful

CW: And he's down the road at the cemetery

GS: That's right

CW: And that comforts me

GS: He's close

CW: He's very close

GS: Yes, he is

CW: So him and my mother and my dad and everyone so I'm there with everyone, and I live there in the house and it's, it's just absolutely beautiful. The house is beautiful, and I remember them calling it, referring--I'm probably talking too much

GS: No you're fine, not at all

CW: I remember them referring to it as the Tiger mansion when I was growing up, just the different nostalgic stories that my mother would just say "Oh we would do this, and oh we would do that" and you know, they had--they had what we would refer to as a nanny today and a housekeeper, she was a live in and her name was Ma Smith, she was a black lady. And her and her husband was Mr. Smith, I don't remember his first name 'cus momma never called him by his--she always called him Mr. Smith.

GS: Mr. Smith

CW: Mr. and Mrs. Smith

GS: Very respectful

CW: Yeah she didn't call Mrs. Smith 'Misses', she always called her Ma, Ma Smith. Maybe they called him Paul, I don't know, but I don't remember that. I always say Mr. Smith and Ma Smith but I would refer to her husband as 'Alright now, Mr. Smith's gonna be coming in pretty soon and so you girls need to do this' because she was their nanny and momma said she bathed them and took care of them, but she was a live in because she--now there was a servants' quarters there on the property, but they didn't live there, they lived in the basement

GS: Okay

CW: So she could be near Conniesenny in case she needed anything

GS: Oh

CW: And she was the caretaker, she did everything. She did the cooking and took care of the--her, whatever her needs were, she was there and helped with the kids and helped with raising my mother.

GS: How wonderful

CW: And she was very hands on and very affectionate. And so Mr. Smith was the 00:21:00groundskeepers and now I know why he, they had a full time groundskeeper, because it's a lot, it's a lot to keep all, everything done and we have weed eaters nowadays and he did it by hand, but at that point in time, there was a fenced in area that was like an orchard and so there was fruit trees and gardening and all of those things that they had. And so anyway, but I think this was the first house to have indoor plumbing

S: Oh

CW: So it had indoor plumbing and my--the story goes, now this is what my mother told me, that Conniesenny Tiger paid to have the, the first one to pay to have the electric strung five miles, and so the electric that's out there now, everyone has benefited throughout the years because she's the one that had it installed

GS: Because she got it started, well I imagine that's true, she had the money to 00:22:00do it.

CW: Yes, she did, she did.

GS: That's exciting

CW: Yeah, and they said that when she died, she had six hundred thousand dollars in her checking account

GS: Wow

CW: Not what she was worth, because they house, the land, everything that went all together and that day was, of course, doesn't even account for today's money

GS: No, yeah

CW: But back then, that was a lot of money

GS: I'm sure, so was that money then distributed to your mother

CW: Yes

GS: And

CW: No, not my mother

GS: Your grandmother

CW: My grandmother

GS: Yes

CW: So my grandmother had another son, his name was--his name was Porter Tiger, and so they had a real soft spot in their heart for the depot because he was killed in Colorado and that took his body--took them two weeks to get his body shipped back to Bristow

GS: And they did it by rail?

CW: They did it by rail, and he came here and they and to come to the train station and pick him up, and so it just broke my grandmothers heart, her heart 00:23:00was just broke, and my great grandmother--I said my grandmother, but it's my great grandmother

GS: Conniesenny

CW: Conniesenny, yes. Her heart was just broken, and he has two children. He had two children, still does, so--or he has great grandchildren and great grandchildren from her two as well, and she had--so it was the land and, but my grandmother, Hannah Brown (ph) was able to get the house and the land, she inherited that and I think the money and different parts, different sections of that land was inherited to the Porter Tigers children

GS: Okay, okay, so that's when it started getting divided up?

CW: Yes, after her death so [Indecipherable]

GS: You were gonna tell me a little about the Indian Culture around here

CW: Oh I'm sorry about that

GS: No that's--you're fine!

CW: The culture here is still strong today, it is--there's still ceremonial ground that is out here south of town and, which is referred to as Iron Post, or there was an original ceremonial ground that was called Sand Creek, so now younger generation refers to this particular Iron Post as Sand Creek so it's kind of changed along the way, but there's still thick native Yuchi culture here out of Bristow and Kellyville between here and Mounds

GS: And what do they do there?

CW: Oh we have our green corn ceremonial, we have green corn ceremonies here, and all of the--it's a fasting where you fast and pray and dance and sing and all these things that you go then we celebrate with fresh green corn and 00:25:00tomatoes, you know, everything all of your fresh fruits and vegetables at that time of year. And it's usually done in July and August

GS: That's--you know I've lived here all my life and never heard of that

CW: Well there's a full blood Yuchi community in Bristow, it's one of the largest ones where everyone if you were from the area, you know between here and--there was a lot of Yuchis that married in with the Sac and Foxes and the Absente Shawnees is as well

GS: Are the Yuchis creek, or is that separate?

CW: It's actually separate

GS: Okay

CW: They were--they were band together with the creeks back during the removal, so back then you were just Indian. It didn't matter what you were, you're so--but the majority of, so when they were band together during the removal, they were moved with the creeks because we were neighbors back in the homeland

GS: Do you know what state your grandmother Conniesenny came from?

CW: Georgia

GS: She did come from Georgia, that's very interesting

CW: Yeah it's from Georgia

GS: Okay

CW: So there was the northers Yuchis and the lower Yuchis, southern Yuchis, the northern and the southern since you had the Yuchis that was up in the Appalachians so those were like the northern ones and then you have the southern ones

GS: Okay. I never knew that.

CW: Close to it

GS: Very nice

CW: It stretches all the way around from all the way down like where Pensacola and Destin Florida is today

GS: Yes

CW: Yeah

GS: Wow

CW: All the way there, all the way. Then once you start getting into Alabama, there was the Georgia, the creeks were there in Georgia as well. But all through Georgia and Alabama was creeks and the Tennessee

GS: Fascinating, just fascinating

CW: It goes all the way to the east coast all the way back, so there was a huge, huge--

GS: So the Yuchi nation was a big tribe

CW: It was--yes and our language is still alive, not it's almost extinct to this day, but there is a younger generation that has really grasped hold and had become faithful and steadfast and we have two elders right now that are still full blood, living full blood.

GS: Oh that's marvelous.

CW: Yeah it's still, and there's some right here in Bristow is Ethaline Washburn (ph), she's still alive and well and just a beautiful, beautiful lady.

GS: She's probably someone we should interview

CW: Yeah, you probably should. And she'll say "Oh I don't know about that" if you know, she said, she's very modest about it, but she was very, very wise.

GS: Do you have relatives still living here in Bristow?

CW: No I don't

GS: Okay, because when we heard the name Tiger we thought "Well there's some tigers" we've heard the name tiger in this area

CW: Okay so now that they're, they are Conniesenny descendants first for the 00:28:00Tiger, Lucian Tiger, Lucian Tiger the III, they are her grandchildren and great grandchildren.

GS: So they're distant relatives to you maybe

CW: Yes, to me, but to her they're direct descendants

GS: Right, are they still here?

CW: Yes, uh-huh yes

GS: Okay, yeah, that's what I was asking.

CW: Yes, okay so they--they mainly bond, I'm sure they bonded with Conniesenny too, but they had their own history here through their mothers' side

GS: Okay

CW: [Indecipherable] And a lot of them made, like that's how the enrollment goes, and any most of your upper whatever, usually followed by the mother [Indecipherable]

GS: I've read that, I just love that, yeah

CW: Everything's about Gelenium (ph), and like if you're gonna go with your clan or you're gonna go you follow your mothers clan.

(Laughter)

GS: The woman in me loves that

CW: Yes

GS: Okay let's see, okay you told me that you have memories of visiting here 00:29:00because you weren't raised in Bristow

CW: Nuh-uh

GS: But your grandmother was, your mother was?

CW: And my husband was from Bristow

GS: Okay

CW: He was actually from Bristow from Gipsy corner, my husband was so yeah I have those families from him as well as from his family, but when I was a child, we would come back to visit his family

GS: Okay

CW: So--

GS: So you knew his family

CW: Yes, yes.

GS: Well before you every were romantically involved with him

CW: Yes, he's Yuchi too

GS: Okay

CW: We're all--they were all Yuchis, all of them. There's a Yuchi committee that, like the [Indecipherable] Church

GS: Yes

CW: Okay so anyway, my mother and my grandmother we would always come back here to visit their friends, I don't know, I couldn't tell you there's certain friends, but like one lady was a seamstresses, and we'd come back here to pick up the quilts or whatever, or we would come back to go to the ceremonial dances that they had, but anytime we would come to eat, and I would remember coming 00:30:00through town and all of the, you know brick streets, I just loved that as a kid being in the back seat loving that, and I remember them talking about a CR Anthonys that was here on Main Street, I remember just all the old buildings and going in and out of the stores, but I don't remember the names of them.

GS: Yeah

CW: The pool hall, seems like I remember where there was a pool hall

GS: There was, there were a couple right up there

CW: Yeah, so I remember that as a child coming through there and the Anchor-In where the hamburgers were, so it's coming back forward another twenty years you know, but--

GS: Well we're so glad that you've moved back here

CW: Oh gosh I am too, I am too.

GS: And it's nice, do you have any of your husbands' relatives who live around here that you know?

CW: They don't live here, no they live in Norman and in Oklahoma City, but they were raised here, they were raised here. When their grandmother, their mother 00:31:00and grandmother passed away, they moved away. They moved away actually before the grandmother passed away, but they of course came back every weekend I remember to always see her because she was a pillar here in the community as well. She, her name was Polly LongGS: Polly Long

CW: She was, her native name was Ah-La-Quan and so she lived here for years. She couldn't speak English either, and they chose not to, you know back then they chose not to because they had it so hard, they knew what others were attempting to say but all of her-- she raised three boys, they were her grandsons, she raised them all here. And you know back then the mothers would have to leave home and go off to work if they weren't married, so. And then anyway as time goes on--

GS: Okay let me see, now since you're not from Bristow, I'm gonna concentrate on 00:32:00some other area here

CW: Okay

GS: Church life, your grandmother or any of them, did they attend church, were they religious people?

CW: Yes, they were, she was a devout Christian number one, and they-- back then they didn't have church homes, houses, church buildings, a place of worship all over, so back then you traveled to your home to have church

GS: I've heard that

CW: So I have pictures of them having church inside the house where I lived now, she had church every--all the time so I have pictures in there in front of the fireplace that still exist today, the exact same windows and everything is in the pictures,

GS: We would probably love to have a digital copy of that if you wouldn't mind

CW: And my--the lady I mentioned Ethaline Washburn (ph) was in that picture, and my husband was in that picture

GS: Aw

CW: At that particular church service, he showed one picture of the pastor 00:33:00standing at the pulpit and preaching and the ladies having their hymnals out and singing and then you have another one of them against the wall back over to the dining room where they had the chairs set up for church, and my husband was sitting right in the middle of the row

GS: And about how old was he?

CW: He was about six, maybe seven. Six or seven

GS: Oh how wonderful, how wonderful is that picture! Oh we would love to have a

CW: Copy of that

GS: A digital copy of that if it's possible, I love that.

CW: We have pictures of Conniesenny, she's just a beautiful and the things about it is, we don't know when this picture was taken, but it was taken there in the house

GS: The one where your husband was six, or are you talking about a different picture?

CW: I'm talking about a different picture

GS: Oh

CW: We have a portrait of Conniesenny Tiger herself, yes it's beautiful.

GS: Yeah we would love to have that too

CW: Yes, that's beautiful. But all of our childhood memories and all the pictures that my mother would talk about that she could just get the nostalgic, you know somedays she she'd just sit there and cry because of her memories that was taken place there at the house and when grandma did this and grandma did that and how grandma was and what they had for supper or you know, just things like that and my--all of the family photos that we have are all taken there at the house with the same entrance, everything's still exactly the same, the front entrance, the from steps, everybody took pictures there

GS: It was the gathering place for your family

CW: It was, it was. And then we said when we were able to come back and purchase it, we said you know, 70 years since this bloodline has been back in the house

GS: Who was the last relative of yours to own that house?

CW: Hannah Brown (ph)

GS: Hannah Brown, and she was your grandmother?

CW: Mhm

GS: And she married who?

CW: She married Joe Yarbrough (ph)

GS: And was he Indian also?

CW: Yes, but he was from--there was not no recording of that, you know back then when you got divorced or when you got mad or whatever, you just said you're a half

GS: Oh okay

CW: So it was one of those deals, there was a divorce

GS: Okay

CW: And, but he was from Newbie?

GS: Yes

CW: I think he was from around Newbie

GS: Okay, okay.

CW: I don't know any, I don't remember--now my mother remembered just talking about his mother, which would have been her grandmother, but I can't, we can't remember her--their names. We don't know who they were or, you know. Some things you just as a kid don't ask, and then even when you got older, before momma died, we--

GS: You don't think to ask until it's too late

CW: Until it's too late, it is not as important as it is now

GS: Exactly, exactly. What about holidays, what kind of festivities did they 00:36:00have at holidays like Christmas and Easter?

CW: Just the same thing

GS: Same thing

CW: The same just like everybody else did

GS: yeah

CW: Yeah, my mom always had a tree and my grandmother always seen to it. Back then, we used to come, I remember coming as a child to my lucky Methodist church out here and her bringing--we'd come from Muskogee and she'd bring baskets of--baskets of oranges and baskets of apples to help set, pass out for the candy sacks for the bags of candy, and she would do stuff like that.

GS: That's wonderful.

CW: But we would always come back to Bristow

GS: Was your grandmother Conniesenny benevolent with her money?

CW: I'm not really sure, I'm not really sure, but I just know that on one hand, she was very free hearted and on the other hand it was always like--actually 00:37:00things were just stolen from her, just stolen. Her money, her mineral rights, everything. It was a lot that was stolen. It was underhanded things that happened.

GS: From--from family members

CW: No, no

GS: or from other [Indecipherable]?

CW: Yeah 'cus back then, you had to guardians over your money, and then like, they took like over half of her fortune. So it was, it was a lot--it was a lot of hard--I hate that part to be recorded, so I mean it's deeper than you can imagine, but whenever she signed her oil lease away, she was thinking she was selling it and my mother was not there to interpret for her that particular day

GS: They took advantage of her

CW: They--oh yeah, they actually conned her into signing away her mineral rights, they stole her oil. And so I'm sure she was grieved, can you imagine how 00:38:00grieved she was, so you don't know when that took place, we don't know how it did but it's gone now, it's all gone. My mother, we still have a portion of royalties but it's not a lot. And then they act like that we're--I mean it's just too much to put on tape, so.

GS: I'm sorry.

CW: Yeah it's a lot

GS: I'm so sorry

CW: Yeah. When my mother, when my grandmother when I was a child, I remembered going and sitting at in Tulsa in the car all day long and, because the guardian wasn't gonna give her any of her money, and she said "well he thinks I'm not--"

GS: Was it because she was Indian?

CW: Oh yeah it was because she was Indian, and you know they had kept her money, they guarded the money, they had the government set up to where they appointed guardians over individual people since they thought they were ignorant and dumb 00:39:00Indians, so that's what they did they just, you know, so Indians and dogs are the only ones that are registered with a dog tag with a number on it. If you registered, that's how you get registered. So back then, they had--they took care of all their individual--