Basil Baker

Interviewer: Georgia Smith

Interviewee: Basil Baker

Other Persons:

Date of Interview:

Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma

Transcriber: Abby Thompson

Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

Original Cassette Tape Location: OHP-2020-08 0:00 - 82:09

Abstract:

Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.'s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account.

To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible.

GS: Okay, I've got that set now we're gonna set it right there Basil

BB: Okay

GS: And I'm gonna talk first

BB: Okay, I hope you do a lot of the talking

GS: No, you'll do most of it. This is Georgia Smith with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma and this interview is part of the history societies ongoing oral history project. Today's date is December the 13th, 2020 and I am sitting here with Basil Baker at his home in Bristow who is going to tell me a little bit about his history in the Bristow area. Okay Basil, let's begin. What is your full name?

BB: Basil Baker

GS: You have a middle name?

BB: No

GS: No middle name, and where were you born?

BB: I was born five miles south and one mile east on a farm

GS: In your home, in the home?

BB: Yup, born in the home.

GS: What was the date of your birth?

BB: 11 November, 1920

GS: Very good, you just celebrated your 100th birthday, didn't you?

BB: Two days ago

GS: Do you know that makes you the oldest person I've interviewed so far? I feel honored.

BB: There you go

GS: And channel six came and did a special on you Wednesday on your birthday, didn't they?

BB: Yes, yes

GS: Yes, I was impressed that you were on the golf course hitting golf balls. What was your mother's name, her full name?

BB: Cordie OverstreetGS: And your father's name?

BB: John H. Baker

GS: Okay, do you know when they were married approximately?

BB: Moses was the preacher

GS: Okay

BB: I'll have to be a little funny about this because my momma--I'm gonna have to back up from the time they died

GS: You just do that

BB: Momma died in 66', dad died in 64' and they had celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary

GS: Okay

BB: They both died at 88 years of age.

GS: So your mom was 66 when she died?

BB: No she was 88

GS: Oh, no--oh she died in 66 you said?

BB: Yeah, yeah

GS: And they had just celebrated what anniversary?

BB: Before that, they're--celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary, so 65.

GS: So they were married in 1901 maybe?

BB: Probably

GS: Okay, 1901 sounds good.

BB: My dad was 4 in 1878

GS: Okay, at the end of the civil war

BB: Yeah, and momma was born in 1880

GS: Okay

BB: So that could probably, I know they married momma was 16, and--I'm about to get ahead of things here.

GS: No you're fine, if you're telling me something, we'll just go with it Basil.

BB: She had 3 brothers and 2 sisters that lost their mother

GS: Aw

BB: And they came and lived with her and my dad, so every one of them but one was older than she was. And so she raised two families

GS: Wow

BB: She--her own and them.

GS: Aw

BB: And they always called her mom

GS: Aw

BB: I've been to visit at Arkansas and talked to all of them and they said she was just like a mother to them so they just called her mom

GS: Now was your mother living in Arkansas at that time, and dad or were they here in Bristow?

BB: That's where--that's where she was born

GS: Okay

BB: And both my dad and mom

GS: Okay

BB: And they came to Oklahoma in 1905

GS: What brought them here?

BB: Just needed to move out of Arkansas and new country, Oklahoma [Indecipherable] just about ready to become a state, and I don't--they didn't 00:05:00get any land, they didn't--that wasn't what they came for. But the boys was old enough that they wanted to come, so they came and settled around the mills chapel area, old mill chapel (ph) area.

GS: Okay

BB: In fact, it was just half a mile north of mill chapel

GS: Now was that south of Bristow?

BB: No, well yes. That's three miles south and two miles east

GS: Okay, okay I know about--there's a housing addition down there now I think

BB: Oh sure now

GS: I think

BB: Well, they stayed one year, things didn't work out then they went back to Arkansas and came back in 1908

GS: Back to Oklahoma?

BB: Yeah

GS: Okay

BB: But they didn't go to the same place, I don't know where they went to, to tell you the truth. That never was revealed to me as far as I know

GS: Sure, do you have any brothers or sisters?

BB: Yes, yes. We was a family of 9

GS: Oh my word, can you tell me their names?

BB: Seven brothers--yeah, seven brothers and two sisters.

GS: My goodness

BB: Well I had six brothers, there were seven boys and two girls.

GS: Well I bet your dad appreciated all that help on the farm

BB: Well, the thing of it was, well when they were other than the farm that he bought and he settled that, there was only three of us that grew up there

GS: Oh okay

BB: And the rest of them was gone then working in oil fields and what have you

GS: What were their names?

BB: Okay starting at the oldest

GS: Oh good

BB: Dillard

GS: Dillard Baker?

BB: Dillard Roy (ph)

GS: Okay

BB: The next one was Wayne (ph), don't ask me the middle names of these

GS: That's fine, Wayne Baker?

BB: Wayne. The next one was Bessie (ph)

GS: Okay

BB: Then Oval (ph), then Reeth (ph), and then Virgil (ph)

GS: Okay

BB: And then between me and there was actually ten of us, but I had a brother that was two years and five months old and he died, they never did find out what was wrong with him. The doctors didn't know then, but anyway I was come along 00:08:00and I was the last one

GS: Now I thought you were brothers to Merle Baker

BB: Merle was a nephew

GS: Okay, okay. Because I got your phone number from Bunny

BB: Yeah, yeah.

GS: Okay. What did your mother do in the house?

BB: Work herself to death

GS: I imagine

BB: She worked in the field before I was born, she used to tell me, not before I was born, but I mean before I was old enough to do anything outside of the house, she would tell me about how some of the older ones when they were babies, 00:09:00she'd take a number three washtub to the field, find a shade, put a big quilt in the washtub and put the baby in the washtub.

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: And then if they were chopping cotton or corn or chicken or what have you, every so often she'd go to the tub and let the baby nurse

GS: Uh-huh, uh-huh

BB: And she said he never did have any problems with it

GS: Well very good

BB: It just, it was just a hardship that's all

GS: Yeah

BB: That's all we knew

GS: Yeah that's true

BB: We did own our own farm

GS: Oh that's good

BB: And had a cellar full of fruit, vegetables, meat--

GS: That your mother canned

BB: Yeah, and we never lacked for food, so we was alright that way

GS: Uh-huh

BB: No money

GS: Yeah, yeah I don't think many people had money back then

BB: No, I remember my dad telling my mother Cordi, we came out with a hundred and ten dollars, they set a hundred and twenty in the paper, but that was around one hundred and ten dollars this year

GS: Oh my goodness, can you imagine?

BB: No

GS: Now Basil, every now and then I'm gonna get up and just make sure this is still going just to satisfy me, so it's fine so don't get nervous when I stand up, I'm just checking that that's going

BB: That don't bother me

GS: Okay, what is your wifes name?

BB: Gonda (ph)

GS: And her maiden name? Meek (ph)?

BB: [Indecipherable]

GS: Was it Meek?

BB: Yes, her last name is Meek, I was trying to think of her middle name

GS: Oh

BB: Inez (ph)

GS: Gonda Inez Meek (ph), okay. And you both got married in September, on 00:11:00September 13th, 1973?

BB: Yeah

GS: Good, and where did you get married?

BB: Las Vegas

GS: Were you living there at the time?

BB: No, we took a vacation, we were working at a hospital

GS: Oh

BB: And we took a vacation and went out there and got married

GS: Where were you working?

BB: In Santa Fe

GS: Santa Fe

BB: New Mexico

GS: Was this after WWII?BB: Oh yes, yes. This was just before I re--well, I went to work there the third, I went to Sears, I retired during the week, I don't remember the day but on the following Wednesday, so it must've been a Monday or a Tuesday I went to Sears to see if I could get a job there and they hired me as a manager of their appliance department

GS: Oh

BB: So I thought I's pretty lucky

GS: Yes

BB: I went out the door and I ran across a man that I had met when my wife and his wife was in the hospital, military hospital in Albuquerque

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: And so he said "hey, when you gonna retire?" I said I just did, just last week. He said "What are you gonna do?", I said "Well I just got a job in Sears", he said "Go back in there and tell them you can't take it". I said "Man I need it", he said "I got a job for you" well he knew what experience I had in the military

GS: Yes

BB: So he said "I want you as my personnel director at the hospital"

GS: Wow

BB: It was a 200 bed hospital bed with 906 employees

GS: Wow

BB: So I went up and talked to the sister who was the administrator of the 00:13:00hospital, it was a Catholic hospital, and she was unsatisfied with my education because I had nothing to show other than this letter and I couldn't have found it in a week. I knew where it was, but it was packed with other things that was somewhere

GS: Right

BB: And I told her that if she would give me 30 days that at the end of it, if she was happy with my work she'd put me on the payroll; if she wasn't, she didn't owe me a thing, I would go my way, friends and she--it was her decision.

GS: So did you stay more than a month?

BB: 13 years

GS: (Laughing) I figured.

BB: Two weeks later she saw me in the hallway and she told me I was on the payroll

GS: Very good

BB: But they'd--the personnel records were scattered all over the hospital

GS: Oh myBB: Each floor had the records of the people that worked on that floor. The one that squealed the loudest about getting a raise got a nickel or something like that an hour, and they made minimum wage [Indecipherable] was five seventy-five, or six seventy-five

GS: Oh, uh-huh

BB: But anyway, I had a little trouble gathering all the records of all the employees because I had to explain that each floor I go to, I had to explain how much easier it was gonna be with the records in one area, one place, and they 00:15:00could be relieved of taking care of them

GS: Yes

BB: that took time

GS: Yes

BB: So when they finally agreed and I got all the records, well from there they didn't have any pay scale, and just hodge podge two people in that hospital that was drawing the same hourly rate

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: So, I come up with a wage schedule, it was a seniority wage schedule and it costs the hospital 3 million dollars to put it into effect it was so screwed up.

GS: Wow

BB: They had nurses that had worked there for 20 years and that's--they were 00:16:00still drawing so little pay that they couldn't recruit nurses. So once we got this straightened out and I had the pay of a nurse which would make her willing to come if pay was the cause of her coming or not coming, and so that proved it and I don't know where they got the money, maybe from the mother house I don't know, but anyway it went into effect.

GS: Sounds like they really needed you

BB: Well they needed someone

GS: Yes

BB: And there's one thing about me: I love people, I just love people

GS: That's wonderful

BB: I'll talk to anybody about anything at any time. I'll go into a store with 00:17:00Gonda, she's going after something, it won't be three seconds or minutes, until I'm talking to someone and she'll come out, we'll leave the store, she "Who was that?" and I said "I don't have the slightest idea. I said Hello, they said hello, and I started talking to them". That's why I like the personnel field, that wasn't all I did in the military, but I was in the administrative area because I got hurt when I first went in the army, I was in the 7th cavalry horse.

GS: Oh my goodness, you were in the cavalry

BB: Yes, and I got injured on my knee. I rode in between--I was a squad leader and I [Indecipherable] when we went into the line for parade, it was supposed to leave room for me to ride in, it didn't.

GS: Uh-oh

BB: So I spurred my horse and forced my way in and the rifle on the one of the left of me, the [Indecipherable] caught my knee

GS: Oh wow

BB: And it messed it up really, really bad.

GS: Aw

BB: I had to have surgery twice and I couldn't crawl after that, they ran that thing all the way down. Now then it's orthoscopic and a little hole and I've got probably a twelve-inch scar over my knee, and I can't get down on my knee at all

GS: To this day

Bb: Yeah it's--the scar is tender

GS: Aw, uh-huh

BB: And so they put me in an administrative field and that's where I got into the first [Indecipherable] field. But I was interested in them for 00:19:00[Indecipherable] and I thought the relationship that I had with them, if it was good, they'd do a lot more

GS: Yes

BB: Because they would come and talk to me about anything. But you see, I had about 75 or 80% women, and the rest of them was in the maintenance part

GS: Yes, yes

BB: I didn't have any male nurses at all

GS: Not back then

BB: Uh-uh. And if I knew that one of the men from the maintenance department, their daughter, had had a baby, I would stop and ask him how the baby was doing and things like that, I always--I showed an interest in anything that I knew 00:20:00that was important to them. And consequently, two years after I retired and moved to Bristow, we went back to visit Gondas sister that lives in the Sandy Mountains west, south west of Albuquerque

GS: Oh okay

BB: And from there, it's only about 40 miles to Santa Fe. So I went back up to Santa Fe to visit the hospital; oh my goodness. They was all over me!

GS: Oh I bet they were delighted to see you!

BB: They hugged me, they had me by the arms, it just made me feel so god.

GS: Oh, well you made them feel good I'm sure when you were working there.

BB: Well I got replaced by a man that had a degree in personnel management

GS: He probably didn't do any better

BB: He lasted six month

GS: (Laughing)

BB: That's the truth, I found that out after I went back [Indecipherable], I knew his name and 'where is he at?', 'oh he got fired', so. But anyway that's--

GS: That's amazing, I'm gonna back you up just a little bit and ask you about the Dust Bowl. What are your memories of Oklahoma in the Dust Bowl?

BB: [Indecipherable]

GS: (Laughing)

BB: I don't even [Indecipherable] think of it. To begin with, you couldn't see anything

GS: Even here in Bristow?

BB: Yes, way out there where we lived on the farm just south of Bristow, it looked like a light bulb in the sky

GS: Wow

BB: Dark as, it was just dark. And we--you had to tie a rope to, from the barn to the house, to the chicken house, wherever you needed to go you had to have a rope to guide you from the end of the rope to the other with feed or whatever in the other hand.

GS: How often was it like that where you couldn't see?

BB: It seemed forever

GS: I'm sure it did

BB: It wasn't hardly, ya know I can't tell you. I would say off and on two weeks.

GS: Wow

BB: Or maybe longer, I'm not sure. But what contributed a lot to the Dust Bowl; 00:23:00peanuts were in demand at that time

GS: Yes, they were, and Bristow was the quote "peanut capital"

BB: Right, and when these farmers planted their peanuts, they grew up into a bush just like they're supposed to

GS: Uh-huh

BB: Okay, if you go out and pull them up, that'd be a lot nuts stay in the ground. You don't pull loose from the vine. So they developed, most of them, used car springs. Sharpened on the edge, it went to a single row plow

GS: Wow

BB: Was a two wheel called a [Indecipherable]

GS: Uh-huh

BB: Alright, that plow went underneath the ground and clipped the roots of these peanuts and left the dirt, didn't make a furrow, it left the dirt just like, it just went underneath that dirt. The dirt reminded me of a mole working at the ground

GS: Oh okay

BB: And that loose dirt, the wind was blowing so hard, it just dished that dirt right out of--it was just like that. And when we went to school, we could walk over the fences

GS: Oh my word

BB: It had, it would stop behind the weed, big amount, it was just so thick and my mother, we had a bedroom, my brother and had a bedroom on the south of the house, and of course the wind was blowing from the south, she would put a sheet 00:25:00in a tub of water and wring it out and put it over us at night

GS: To protect you from the dust?

BB: Yeah, and in the morning, we was almost the color of that couch

GS: Just hard to believe it was that bad

BB: In the house

GS: In the house, yeah

BB: The windows was, keep in mind this was a house that was probably 20 years old.

GS: Okay

BB: Maybe a little older. So they had wooden windows, and you could shake them like that where the [Indecipherable] up and down and any crease where the dust could get in, it came in and built a little pile there, and mom would have to sweep out those windows every day.

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: She'd sweep it out on the porch, [Indecipherable], and sweep it out on the porch

GS: Yeah

BB: But we survived

GS: Yes

BB: And it's been everybody, [Indecipherable] died far as I knew

GS: How bad did it affect your crops?

BB: Not bad other than sand piling up

GS: Yeah

B: Or there was something that it could hit

GS: Yeah

BB: But a lot of people took the fence down and used to tame horses in what they called a slip, which had two hands and you could fill it, it was fixed to where you could raise it up, it wasn't on a [Indecipherable], it was fixed to work. 00:27:00You could raise it up and hold it and it would go into the ground, that's how horses pulled it

GS: Oh

BB: And then you pushed down in it, it'd come up out of the ground

GS: I see

BB: So and then you go in where you wanna dump it, you raise up on the handle and then it just dumped it. And they would take this sand and spread it back out over the field then set their fence again where it was to have a decent fence to keep the stock outside.

GS: Yeah, one that wasn't covered in dirt that the cattle could just walk right over probably

BB: Yes, yes, yes. Not every fence, but the fence that run east and west because 00:28:00the dirt was coming from the south. Now it--I don't know how much area or how wide it was, I was too young to know, I was in about the third, fourth grade or something like that. It was enough, it would plug your nose when you breathe, we never thought about wearing a mask back then

GS: Yeah

BB: But anyway it was, it was bad.

GS: Now you told me that you entered WWII in 1940?BB: MhmGS: Was that before Pearl Harbor?

BB: Yeah

GS: What made you enter then?

BB: Well, I didn't wanna be a farmer, dad wanted me to be a--well he wanted me, he's getting old and he wanted me to take over my end of the farm, I didn't want 00:29:00that. I didn't wanna starve, if I did I wanted to starve doing what I wanted to do

GS: Uh-huh

BB: No it wasn't really that bad, but it was hard work

GS: Sure

BB: But one of the guys, a friend of mine, came home and he was stationed at Fort Sheridan (ph), Wyoming, and he was telling me how great the military was. So I wasn't doing anything, I thought 'well, if that's a case, I'll just enlist and go with you back to Fort Sheridan, okay', I said okay. I went to Tulsa, enlisted, they signed me to the infantry, and they put me in a pan, it looked like it had ink in it, I don't know what it was. It had me stay on a my [Indecipherable] that long, and had me stand on a piece of paper to check my instep

GS: Huh

BB: And my foot, my instep was as flat as it could be

GS: Well

BB: And they took me out of the infantry immediately and assigned me to the cavalry

GS: Well good

BB: We had to go this way and that way [Indecipherable]

GS: Oh, yeah.

BB: Yeah, but that's the way I started out. It wasn't a big deal to me, I knew how to ride a horse

GS: Yes

BB: But I didn't know how to ride it military style

GS: Yes

BB: If you was comfortable on a horse in the military, something was wrong

GS: Really?

BB: Really. That's--the saddle to begin with had a split about two to three inches wide right down the middle

GS: Oh no!

BB: To let the air into the horse's back

GS: AhhBB: That was their [Indecipherable] that that kept the heat from the horse's back

GS: I see

BB: Calling them [Indecipherable]

GS: But I bet it was not comfortable to sit on

BB: It was not, it was not. But you had to saddle [Indecipherable], every day. 00:31:00And you come in from training and you had to saddle [Indecipherable], saddle it, clean it up

GS: Wow

BB: Corral your horse

GS: Yes

BB: Water them, and tie them in the stalls for feeding. The stables sergeant took care of the feeding them but you had to get them there.

GS: Right

BB: And odd thing people laugh about it, they had [Indecipherable] they were boarding for horses, if one of them was limping or had a cold, a horse can take a cold, and whatever was wrong with them, he took them to the vet

GS: Well

BB: And if one of them was your horse, you didn't--they didn't give you another horse to ride, they put you on stable police, and that was cleaning out stalls and hauling that stuff to the mound where we put it

GS: So you probably hoped your horse never got sick

BB: Yeah that's the truth. But you--we used shoe polish on their hooves for inspection, oh they glistened. All the brass was shiny; we weren't gonna miss stuff.

GS: Did you ever go to battle on your horse?

BB: No, I--after I got her and was sent to Fort Riley, about that time they had 00:33:00horses there, we had, I think we had one group of recruits come in for horse equitation, and then they did away with them

GS: Oh, huh

BB: Because they was recognizing

GS: Oh I see

BB: And so the horses, they had some mules that they sent to Italy for pack mules to take artillery up into the mountain

GS: Okay

BB: But no horses

GS: Okay

BB: But they--horses, the buyers would go somewhere and buy horses, they may be in from a wild herd, I don't know. But they would ride them one time to a standstill, they had GIs, that was their duty is to break the horses.

GS: Oh

BB: Yeah, so they--the horse was ridden and stopped bucking, it didn't mean it wasn't gonna buck again, but not as much

(Background noise)

GS: We'll stop for just a minute.

BB: Get back in there

GS: There's nobody there, there's nobody there

(Background noises)

BB: Coda (ph), Coda, get over here. Here.

GS: You were in the personnel department then, where were you stationed for most of the war?

BB: After the war, I was--

GS: No during the war

BB: Oh, well actually I left Fort Bliss about the time of Pearl Harbor

GS: Okay

BB: And I went like I said, to [Indecipherable], I mean to Fort Riley, Kansas, and this place that I was assigned to was a cavalry replacement training center. We did with the recruit, [Indecipherable] had been drafted, enlisted, whatever, they got their basic training there.

GS: Okay

BB: Not everybody was all over the United States, just that area

GS: Okay

BB: And it was every, about every six weeks there was a turnover and I was assigned to department of weapons as a weapons--cut it out--as a weapons instructor

GS: Okay

BB: And I was there for five years and--

(Background noise)

BB: And from there, I went to Topeka, Kansas which wasn't a post, it was a city that the reserve of Kansas held meetings there and different places rather than over the state. And I was a-- an advisor to the Kansas reserve

GS: Okay

BB: Regular army advisor, which meant that you went where they had meetings, and you didn't take their count, you made count

GS: Okay

BB: So that you--there, who said 'here' was actually here, and the number, what was it, coincided with the number of people that said here.

GS: Okay, uh-huh

BB: And from there, I was with the horses, I went to Austria

GS: Okay

BB: I went to a post that was 50 miles down in the valley from [Indecipherable]

GS: Oh my gosh

BB: And it was just between two mountains [Indecipherable]. After the war, during the war, the American soldiers had acquired a hotel on the lake, big lake from the Germans, and they were using it to send our men to train people who 00:38:00were unaccompanied who didn't have their dependents with them when they went overseas. They--and they had to take a six-week basic training to learn how to deal with the civilian population because we were an army of occupation and we had to get along with the people, and so I came back from there after about a year, year and a half, moved back to [Indecipherable], and I was sergeant major, post sergeant major for [Indecipherable] Military post. Now to anybody this doesn't mean that much, but we were in charge of a transportation unit, we were in charge of an MP unit, and we were in charge of an intelligence unit.

GS: Wow

BB: So, I was there four years. During that time there, I was in Holland coming home, I was in Italy, I was in North Africa--

GS: Oh myBB: And get the ship to come out. Eight days in that water, I never got so sick of water in my life.

GS: It's a good thing you weren't in the navy then

BB: Yeah, but it's odd how different people are in their homeland. For an 00:40:00example, we went through Italy, we saw an old man plowed his grapes with a horse and a cow

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: And the grapes were big as a fence post

GS: Oh my word

BB: [Indecipherable] And they were trim dried down to a nub

GS: Huh

BB: It was odd; I didn't know you could trim grapes that close.

GS: Yeah

BB: And Holland there was an island out 20 miles from the shore [Indecipherable], completely surrounded by the sea, salt water with a fresh water spring on the Island

GS: How odd

BB: Yeah it was odd. They--one thing was odd too, a boy and a girl gets engaged, 00:41:00he is required to make her a wooden shoe. They were [Indecipherable]

GS: Yes

BB: And when they get married, he gives her the other one. That's a custom, but it's a nice friendly country. We went to Poland, we stayed in a hotel, we eat at the hotel

(Background Noises)

GS: We'll stop right there. [Indecipherable] There we go, that'll hush you up.

BB: We were there four days and when we returned to--hush--Frankford, Germany, we rode electric train to Holland and back. [Indecipherable]. We had spent $74

GS: Oh

BB: But I was in uniform and they didn't charge me like they did my wife

GS: Aw

BB: I came back to the states and was assigned to Fort Eustis, Virginia and a transportation unit was there. But that fall every morning, the dampness, I couldn't take, my knee would--it wouldn't take it. So they assigned me to Fort Bliss, Texas.

GS: Yes. You're fine, go on, I'm just checking this again.

BB: And the unit I was assigned to there was--they were experimenting in low 00:43:00flying aircraft, what certain sized bombs would do

GS: Oh myBB: To get as many personnel as you could. And we didn't fly planes, but we'd fill flour sacks with about a three-pound paper bag and they drop those from the plane when they--when we signal them, they drop them. And we measured the distance that this flour flew out

GS: Yes

BB: And it'd given us approximately how many guys might be in that area.

GS: I see

BB: And then one time I remember each time we went out, they would drop one right after another, which made it almost the circle come--to the edge of the 00:44:00circle that they dropped the bomb for

GS: Uh-huh

BB: So it was a concentration of low flying air

GS: And they could get more

BB: Yeah

GS: Enemies that way

BB: Yeah, and that's what--I was first sergeant of the unit there. From there, I went to Santa Fe, New Mexico as an advisor to the New Mexico National Guard

GS: And was this still during the war?

BB: Yeah

GS: Okay

BB: Yeah, and after that, I went to Hawaii and I was there for three years. I 00:45:00was working in the headquarters, I was in charge of, they told me, roughly forty thousand classified documents

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: They would come--they were in charge of the building construction in the south west pacific, and then it would be the coming and going of the information between there and Hawaii because it was a headquarters of the union. And I left there and the state [Indecipherable] general for New Mexico requested that I be assigned, reassigned New Mexico; my old job, so that's where I retired

GS: Okay, and that's how you met Gonda then, because you were there in New Mexico

BB: Yeah

GS: Okay

BB: I retired at the highest in [Indecipherable] command sergeant major, and always felt that for somebody with an 8th grade education, wasn't bad

GS: I don't think it was at all

BB: I taught school

GS: Oh you did?

BB: Yeah

GS: Tell me about that

BB: When I was, after I graduated, time I graduated in June, we used to get out of school in June, and I was 12 years old and then I was 13 the following 00:47:00November. So I went to--I enlisted, I enrolled in Bristow High school, the bus went by the house, I was proud of my new striped overalls and new shirt, but there was a group of guys at that farmer had no place in Bristow high school, and they drove me out, I quit--

GS: Aw, those bullies

BB: I told my dad I wasn't gonna put up with that, so that's why I wound up with an 8th grade education. But anyway this school teacher which happened to be [Indecipherable], of the VanOrsdol clan that's here.

GS: Yes, yes.

BB: He was a farmer, and at certain times he had to take off to plow, certain times he had to take off to maintain, sometimes he had to take off to gather so he needed someone for two or three days at a time, and he asked me if I would like to substitute teach. I went through school, just like that, it was easy for me. And I don't mean to brag, but it was just easy

GS: No but it was easy, yup.

BB: And I told him that I would, he got permission from the school board to do that. It wouldn't allow any pay for me, if so it would have to come from him. And being a friend as well as a teacher, I wasn't going to ask him to pay me for it cause I wasn't doing anything

GS: Yes

BB: And it lasted during the year, school year, maybe thirty days, two days three days off and on, so it wasn't no big thing but I got a lot of fun out of it

GS: Well sure you did

BB: But you know I felt sorry for some of the kids that had--they'd get to go to school maybe out of the nine-month session and they might get in three months four months

GS: Oh my

BB: Helping at home

GS: Yeah

BB: And so we had some sixteen, seventeen-year-old pupil that was in the sixth, seventh grade

GS: Was that in the early thirties?

BB: Yeah it had to be

GS: That's what I figured

BB: Probably 32', I think the dust storm was in 32'

GS: Okay

BB: The depression

GS: Yes

BB: Wasn't fun either

GS: No it wasn't

BB: I saw people, they never did complain, the guy with a wagon, the team would pull up with their commodities they called them

GS: Yes

BB: Maybe they in a--in a sack, they might have a couple of pounds of flour and some oat meal and maybe some salt or bacon powder or something like that, and they'd hand me tools, I never heard anybody complain. And of course this was a district thing we was getting probably, oh maybe 20 people from families.

GS: Did you ever see the food kitchens or soup lines or anything like that during the depression?

BB: The what?

GS: Oh the food kitchens and the soup lines, did you ever see those?

BB: Nothing in Bristow was like that. But during the Roosevelt administration, he paid farmers, for an example not to raise cotton. My dad was one of the people to go measure the cotton and measure the field and for the past five years, they would pay you for how many bales of cotton you had raised on that field during that five years. And it also meant that you couldn't--I've had 00:52:00people plow cotton, it was that high. I say I've had--I'd go with my dad to measure and I saw farmers not wanting to do it.

GS: Well sure

BB: But they had to, it was a law that they had to do it

GS: Why did they have to do it?

BB: So that there wouldn't be so much on the market.

GS: Okay

BB: Cattle ranchers did the same thing, they'd kill cattle, shot them right where they were standing

GS: Wow

BB: People would jump on them cows and take a quarter home

GS: And this was during the depression?

BB: Yeah

GS: Wow, that almost doesn't make sense, does it?

BB: Well it wasn't no way to keep the meat

GS: Right

BB: They would take the choice pieces, take them home and as long as they lasted and would not get rancid, well they would eat it and maybe sell them afterwards, 00:53:00I don't know.

GS: Wow

BB: Anyway, they did that and then they canned a lot of meat, the government did

GS: Okay

BB: And issued back as canned meat to people. And I think I just about covered a hundred deer

GS: (Laughing)

BB: I think I [Indecipherable]

GS: Did you go to church as a child?

BB: Pardon?

GS: Did you go to church as a child?

BB: Oh yes, the church I was with was right across the road from me

GS: What church was that?

BB: It was the Advent Christian

GS: Okay, okay, and--

BB: It's like the one going south of Chestnut

GS: Okay and your whole family went, did your whole family go?

BB: Yes, Yeah.

GS: Do you have any special fond memories of that?

BB: Yeah, my mom and I had to sweep it out every Saturday, so it'd be ready for 00:54:00Sunday. The seats, them's the hardest things to sweep around

GS: I imagine

BB: You couldn't move them, they'd screwed to the floor

GS: Yeah, bolted to the floor, yes.

BB: Yeah I do remember--you know, in those days, there wasn't any automobiles, there just wasn't that many

GS: Right, people couldn't afford them, could they?

BB: No, and they'd come in a wagon, some of them made 10 miles to church

GS: Wow

BB: And in the wagon they would have hay where they take the team from the front, bring one of them on one side and one on the other side and tie them there so they could eat this hay while they was there at church.

GS: Oh my goodness, wow.

BB: And they would bring almost every Sunday, there was dinner on the ground. 00:55:00And that's why we kids looked forward to--It wasn't, I don't guess it was really every Sunday. It was just special Sunday, I mean a special, yeah special Sunday. And anyway it was, it seemed frequent, but they, about two oh, two thirty they'd all start piling back into the wagon and taking off for home.

GS: What about doctors? Did you go to the doctors much when you were a child? Or your family?

BB: No, the doctor come to us.

GS: Okay, okay.

BB: Yeah the doctor by the name of Doctor King and he drove a touring car I think it was a dodge and he had a crate on the bumper of the car and he would 00:56:00take chickens, he would take hogs, he would take anything, he owned a farm. And he'd take anything that he could take back to that farm

GS: For payment?BB: Yeah

GS: Yup

BB: And we've taken a hog by there a lot of times when we'd be going to town. We finally got a model T Ford, touring, but that was top stuff

GS: I bet it was

BB: Yeah

GS: I bet your father was proud of that

BB: Yeah but he didn't know how to drive, my sister--my sister drove and we later got a thirty, forty-seven Chevrolet coop. And he couldn't drive the thing, 00:57:00so I was--well I was 12 so it was 32' I guess, and so I drove and I couldn't hardly see over the steering wheel, I had to set on the edge of the seat and to shift cause he would put the car in low and then jerk it and put it all the way in high

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: And you could hear that car grinding

GS: Oh I imagine

BB: I told him, I said "Dad, you're gonna ruin your transmission", "Well you drive if you're so smart" so I did.

GS: Did you come into town much? Did you bring your goods for--to market?

BB: Saturday

GS: Okay, what was that like?

BB: Butter and egg day. Well that's the only time you had any money.

GS: Okay

BB: Momma had customers that she sold butter to and eggs. And for all the eggs that was left, we took them to Safeway and they'd be able to take the eggs and pay you in what you wanted to buy

GS: Okay

BB: So you didn't get any money

GS: But you got food or--

BB: Yeah you got food. But the butter and eggs in the community were in Bristow that she sold, she got money for that. She--my dad had a good name with the merchants in Bristow; they would trust him. If he needed a plow share, he'd say 00:59:00'I want you to go in and see Mr. Stone, tell him to send me a plow share for twelve-inch breaking plow (ph) and I'll pay him Saturday when I come in' That's all that's needed, so I meeted Mr. Stone 'Dad said so-and-so' he gave it to me and I go back home. And that's the way it was about anything. If he bought several sacks of feed for the horses, and it was almost thirty dollars. So he gave it to momma, my brother was coming to town and so she came with him to get groceries and he gave it to momma to get the groceries and then put the rest of 01:00:00it in the American National Bank, Spirit Bank took over American National.

GS: Yes

BB: Or it became Spirit Bank

GS: Right

BB: She always tied any money she had, any bills or [Indecipherable] in the corner of a handkerchief

GS: I see; I remember my grandmother doing that

BB: Well, she got out on my brother's car and went in to buy the groceries. She went to pay it, no money. They went back out-- this has all been told to me, I wasn't along--and went back out and they looked and looked. So finally she saw it laying next to the curb, she recognized the handkerchief; there was two guy standing there leaning up against a light post. So she went over there and picked it up and he's chewing tobacco and probably, you know, spittin' around it 01:01:00what have you. And in front of them, she opened it up to see if it's all there, [Indecipherable]

GS: (Laughing)BB: Standing right there with it wrapped around thirty dollars

GS: They might not have realized it was hers and they were thinking "We could've had that"

BB: Right. They was going to charge the groceries, but when she found the money she went back and paid for it; everything turned out. But things come up, one thing that I laughed at more than anything was probably my dad sold a breaking plow to a bootlegger.

GS: Oh, haha!

BB: And he was to pay him at a certain day. Well that day passes and no money. 01:02:00Dad waited, I don't know, two or three weeks or something, and he stopped by Mr. Floods little shack, said you know "I need my money for the breaking plow" "Well I just don't have it John H." said "I'll tell ya what I'll do, I'll give it to you in whiskey". It was fifty cents a pint. I mean it was old shotgun, it wasn't like the stuff that you get this [Indecipherable] it was homemade

GS: Home brewed, yes

BB: So he took it was, I think there was 6 pints, and dad didn't drink, but my brothers did once and a while when they'd come home

GS: Uh-huh

BB: So he took this home

GS: Yes

BB: And put it behind a washboard that was leaning up against the corner of the garage

GS: Yes

BB: Well during the meantime, leaves and [indecipherable] blew into the garage

GS: Uh-huh

BB: And there was enough behind this washboard that a hen started laying back there, made a nest back there. Mom was getting eggs everyday behind that washboard, oh man the day we got home, he said 'I don't know what I'm gonna do with this stuff' and I said 'Well put it there behind that washboard' I didn't know there was a hen laying there then

GS: Yeah

BB: Well he said "that might be a good idea" so he put it behind the washboard, you couldn't see it if you didn't know it was there. Momma went to gather eggs, you'd think that a rattle snake had bit her; she screamed "Johnny, you got time 01:04:00to come here?". She poured it out right there in front of him, every drop of it.

GS: She probably thought he was drinking it or something

BB: He didn't say anything, cause he knew it shouldn't be there to begin with.

GS: Yeah

BB: But that was funny to me. Fall days, a lot of things happen, I couldn't start to cover any of it. Most of the stuff when you live on a farm, it happens and it happens so often, it just comes common place

GS: Right

BB: And you don't think about--make her stay down

GS: Oh she's okay, she's quiet when she's laying on my lap.

BB: But that's about, unless you've got some questions

GS: Well I have a few more here

BB: Okay

GS: I won't tire you out too much, but--Do you remember anything about the Works, Works Protection Act during the 40's and--

BB: The WPA?

GS: Or the 30's I guess it was, yeah the WPA, do you have any memories of that?

BB: Yeah, yeah. There was, there's a funny thing that was attached to that too. They had lots of pick and shovel prize, I mean they did everything with pick and shovel

GS: Okay

BB: And then so many guys in the -- had to register that lived in the community, and each one of them would get fifteen days' work, then--

GS: Okay

BB: And they'd take ten men or half of them, and they'd work the first fifteen days and then the second half of them worked the next fifteen days.

GS: Okay

BB: Well they was building a bridge south of the house and they had to build it up pretty good on the road to elevate the bridge enough so there wasn't a--a big drop off, you just kind of a slope down to the bridge if you cross. Well they was doing it all with wheelbarrows, they'd you know, they'd take it out and dump the dirt then come back and somebody else would fill it up at the bottom. Well, chewing tobacco then was a common thing, and smoking [Indecipherable]. Well this 01:07:00one guy chewed tobacco but he never had any. And he bummed chewing tobacco every day, so I went to this guy and he told him, he said--ask him for chewing tobacco, and he said 'now shorty, I'm gonna give you a chewing tobacco' but he said 'I don't want any more complaints out of you, or I don't want any more asking about chewing tobacco'. So it was in the summer time and they'd sweat and salt would go on their back then their armpits, well he had a new plug of chewing tobacco, so he took it out, rubbed it under his arm, all that sweat 01:08:00under there, and he handed it to him, he said 'what did you do that for?'. Well he said 'I always chew my tobacco--I mean I always do that to my tobacco, it causes it to be moist and last longer' well that guy said 'I don't want any of this' and handed it back to him and never asked him for chewing tobacco again.

GS: That man was pretty smart, wasn't he?

BB: Yeah, the guy said 'I ruined it, but it was a dime at the store, said I only lost a plug of tobacco, but he never did ask for another chew'.

GS: That's just too funny, that is good. Okay, we're winding down here Basil.

BB: They [Indecipherable], they did good work.

GS: Would that be PA?

BB: Yeah for years after your--they built school houses, they built--well of course it was the outhouses too, they built those, they lasted forever it seems like.

GS: Do you remember when they built the amphitheater here in Bristow?

BB: Yes

GS: Or that building?

BB: Yes

GS: Yeah

BB: Yes

GS: Did you come in to see Eleanor Roosevelt?

BB: No I wasn't gonna walk to town to see that

GS: Oh you would've have to have walked?

BB: Probably, dad probably wouldn't let me use a [Indecipherable]

GS: Okay, we're gonna wind down here. What would you consider to be the most important inventions during your life time?

BB: The most--

GS: The most important inventions that have been--happened in your lifetime

BB: Oh my goodness

GS: There have been so many, I know it's hard to pick one.

BB: I think the one that has probably involved more people, served more people, and was a convention--was a convenience for them, was the airplane.

GS: The airplane

BB: Yes. Just north of Bristow, there was a guy that would come there in a little open cockpit plane

GS: Uh-huh

BB: It had a bar at the back at the--at the tail, underneath it.

GS: Okay

BB: So when you go, it would drag your [Indecipherable]

GS: Okay

BB: Man if it was wind blowing and dirt from that spike came in the tail there, it was terrible. But anyway, the charge, either 25 or 56, I think it was 01:11:00twenty-five six, for a trip around Bristow and back.

GS: Oh, well that's cool! I never had heard that.

BB: I didn't do that; I wouldn't have gotten into one of those things for anything.

GS: Was the first time you flew when you were in the service?

BB: Yeah

GS: Yeah, I kinda figured that.

BB: But not very many people would get in it.

GS: How's the world different now than when you were a child?

BB: Not really.

GS: How is it different? How is the world different today than it was when you were growing up, or is it?

BB: Well, still around.

GS: (Laughing) Hasn't got flat yet, has it?

BB: It's gonna get that way. It's the people that's different, that's the 01:12:00biggest thing. The world itself has furnished lots of mysteries that were unsolvable until recent years. But the people is really the biggest thing that I--

GS: How are they different Basil?

BB: Oh my goodness, there is not a drop of love between families, neighbors. You know, used to if you--farmer broke his arm and it was time to plow, as soon as somebody heard about it, here they are, they'd come and plow his farm for him 01:13:00and wherever he wanted it plowed. Just like he would go if somebody else needs him, you know. If they heard--if somebody gets sick, they'd go sit up with them, you know. Work the next day would go sit up two to three hours with them at night. A woman, or a man died, we went into community and got them ready--the caskets were so flimsy, oh they were flimsy. And then they would put them in the casket and they would put them on the back of that, have a board on the back, generally a door off of a corncrib or something; the back of two chairs, put the 01:14:00casket up on top of that, and they would take them to the cemetery in a wagon, and someone would go that morning and dig the grave and have it ready when they got there with the corpse.

GS: Wow.

BB: And people that went to the funeral wanted to get in the car, hooked up a team, left early enough that they'd get there for the funeral. But generally they would have a funeral at, I've seen them have it at the church, I mean at the hold, if there wasn't any churches close. Where we live, the church is across the road, they'd have funerals there. But I don't know how those caskets 01:15:00stay together, I've thought about that so much really during my life, it'd come across my mind; flimsy.

GS: It was a greater sense of community back then, wasn't it?

BB: It what?

GS: A greater sense of community back then, wasn't it? People helping each other in the community.

BB: Yes, and it was just love for people. Another thing too, if a kid was at a house and something happened and they got into a little trouble or something, their mom was on the phone calling the kids momma, they'd send him home, tell her what they did, what he did, if they knew exactly--boy when you got home you 01:16:00got it.

GS: I've heard that a lot, it's a shame it's not that way anymore.

BB: No

GS: Okay, we are in the middle of a pandemic, have you ever seen anything like what we're living through right now?

BB: No, no. Generally, the flu, you knew that it wasn't lasting more than three or four days, and it was over with.

GS: Right

BB: But the thing you don't know how long it's going to last, you don't know what causes it, you can't prepare against it, other than what they suggest.

GS: Right

BB: You know, I'm almost afraid to get out of the house

GS: Of course you are

BB: And I stay home [Indecipherable]

GS: Yup.

BB: And Gonda doesn't bother

GS: Is Gonda still working?

BB: You know what her job is?

GS: What?

BB: Taking care of her granddaughter

GS: Oh

BB: She takes care of Jessica's little girl

GS: I did not know that

BB: Three houses down

GS: Well that's wonderful, that's a nice job to have.

BB: Yeah, once you retire, Jessica asked "what're you gonna do?" Gonda said "I don't know, but I'll probably need something to do" she said "I've got a job for you" so she's been taking care of the little girl for--ever since she been born

GS: That's wonderful

BB: She'll go to [Indecipherable] her grandma will sometimes leave her mother with her grandma. I never seen some I really, not because she's my life, I have 01:18:00never ever seen a grandma like my wife. She will--one of the grandkids asked her, said, I've had it a couple of years 'Grandma, would you take us to McDonalds and get us a hamburger?' and she just drops everything and gets in the car and takes them McDonalds

GS: I bet she didn't do that with her own kids when they were little.

BB: No, no

GS: There's something about being a grandma that can change that

BB: Yeah she, well, all our kids I was part of it, and I was kind of rough on my boys, I tried to tell them what value was and how it should work in their lives, 01:19:00and never ever smear your name. And of course other things, they just knew how I stood, they knew how to work, of course I showed them how to work. But Jessica come along, she got it a little soft. She was a girl then, I treated her a little differently.

GS: Well Basil can you think of anything else you'd like to tell me?

BB: Not really.

GS: Well I just consider it a great privilege to have been able to interview you

BB: Well thank you so much

GS: And I appreciate it ever so much.

BB: Well that's just like, I appreciate it being on TV

GS: Yes

BB: I never thought something like that would happen. And Jessica was the cause of it.

GS: Oh was she?

BB: Yeah she has a friend, this lady from--

GS: Amy Kaughman (ph)?

BB: Yeah, Amy.

GS: Uh-huh

BB: Yeah, and so Amy was talking about [Indecipherable] and what have you interviewing somebody, she said "Oh why don't you interview my dad, he's has a birthday, he's 100 years old, well he'll just fit right in"

GS: Well I think it did!

BB: I was out then at the country club for about three hours

GS: Oh my goodness

BB: And they had my driving balls on the range, driving range

GS: I saw that, you did pretty good there

BB: They had me on the putting green and there was one hole that must've been thirty feet from where it--I never putted a ball on that green in 20 years, I didn't know where it [Indecipherable] naturally, but I could see where there was a little slope to that hole, so all I wanted to do was just try to get it close enough for a tap in. I hit it, and it started curving, went right in that hole

GS: Oh how wonderful Basil!

BB: And he had the camera on it all the way

GS: Oh that's perfect, that is perfect. Well thank you so much--

BB: Oh you're welcome

GS: Yup it's still going so we're good

BB: I'm sorry those dogs [Indecipherable]

GS: Oh those dogs didn't bother me at all

BB: Finally, this one--