Todd and Mary Herman

Interviewer: Todd (TH) and Mary Herman (MH)

Interviewee: Debbie Blansett (DB)

Other Persons:

Date of Interview: April 09, 2021

Location: Bristow, Creek County Oklahoma

Transcriber: Macy Shields

Organization: Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

Original Cassette Tape Location:

Abstract: In this 2021 interview, Todd and Mary Herman sharing about how life was growing up in Bristow. They discuss their family's backgrounds here including, starting gun shows, owning a jewelry store and a dairy, being the librarian, and the effect that the great depression had on their families. Todd and Mary share many stories from their childhood and describe the school system, along with sports at that time.

Preface: The following oral history testimony is the result of a cassette tape interview and is part of the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.'s collection of oral histories. The interview was transcribed and processed by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc., with financial assistance from the Montfort Jones & Allie Brown Jones Foundation. Rights to the material are held exclusively by the Bristow Historical Society, Inc.

The reader should bear in mind that he or she is reading a verbatim transcript of spoken, rather than written prose. Insofar as possible, this transcript tries to represent the spoken word. Thus, it should be read as a personal memoir and not as either a researched monograph or edited account.

To the extent possible, the spelling of place names, foreign words, and personal names have been verified, either by reference resources or directly by the interviewee. In some cases, a footnote has been added to the transcript in order to provide more information and/or to clarify a statement. Some uncertainties will inevitably remain regarding some words and their spellings. In these scenarios, a (ph) follows a word or name that is spelled phonetically. The notation [indecipherable] is used when the transcriber has not been able to comprehend the word or phrase being spoken. The notation [inaudible] is used where there is more mumbling than words, or when interference on the tape has made transcription impossible.

DB: This is Debbie Blansett with the Bristow Historical Society in Bristow, Oklahoma. And this interview is part of the Historical Society's ongoing oral history project. The date is April 9th, 2021 and I'm sitting here with Todd and Mary Herman in their home. And they're going to tell me a little bit about their history and the Bristow area. And I'm gonna have them say their names so you'll know them on tape.

TH: Todd Herman.

MH: Mary D. Collins Herman.

DB: Alright. So I'm gonna lay this here and I'm gonna let you just start wherever you would like to start. Who wants to go first?

MH: Oh Lord.

TH: You go.

MH: No, you start Todd.

TH: Alright (Chuckling).

MH: I mean Debbie, you need to ask some questions too, or he'll--

DB: Okay, well let's start with--

MH: He'll just--

DB: --your early life. Like--

TH: Alright.

DB: --when were you born and all that stuff?

TH: Alright, I was born in November of 1939 at the Sisler Clinic. It was 00:01:00actually the Sisler- Cowart Clinic. C-O-W-A-R-T. On West Eighth street in Bristow. My family came to Bristow on my dad's side in about 1911 and my father was born here in 1912.

DB: Oh.

TH: My mother came to Bristow with her dad in 1923 from Atoka, Oklahoma. She was born in Atoka. And my grandfather-- her father had a jewelry store and my paternal grandfather wound up being-- he was a veterinarian and he wound up being the Chief of Police--

DB: Hmm.

TH: And from there he was the Justice of the Peace.

DB: Here in Bristow?

TH: In Bristow. He was known as Judge Herman.

MH: What was his name?

TH: W.H. Herman his tombstone in the Bristow City Cemetery says Judge Herman.

DB: Oh.

TH: That's how he was known. And you have to understand the Oklahoma Court system from statehood, they had Justice of the Peace everywhere and they handled the small insurrection--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: The small criminal cases.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TH: Which we'd classify now as a misdemeanor.

DB: And the Justice of the Peace did that?

TH: The JP did it. You-- if you got a ticket for killing too many quail--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --and game warden wrote you a ticket, you took it to the JP. That's what they were called-- the Justice of the Peace.

DB: Hmm. See I always associate that with people-- marry people--

MH: Right.

DB: I didn't know that they were--

TH: Oh no, they did-- they did-- they had a lot of-- they kept the peace is what they did.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: That's what it was for.

MH: What was his name Todd, even though he was a judge.

TH: W.H. Herman and I--

MH: What did the W and the H stand for?

TH: I have no idea.

MH: (Laughter)

TH: William? I think the middle name was Hill. And the reason I say that is my uncle B.H. Herman was Benjamin Hill Herman.

DB: Maybe it was a mother's maiden name or--

TH: Could be, I have no idea.

DB: -- or some family name from somewhere.

TH: Somebody's done some research and I remember reading it, but I can't remember exactly what it says.

DB: How many brothers and sisters?

TH: My mother was an only child. My dad had two brothers and a sister.

MH: See Tommy Herman-- they're cousins.

DB: Oh uh-huh.

TH: Yes. Listen, I don't wanna dominate this thing--

MH: No.

DB: No.

MH: Go right ahead, keep on talking.

TH: I could just talk and talk and talk.

DB: Well just talk and talk and talk.

TH: (Laughter) Okay.

DB: So--

TH: Anyway, I was born there--

MH: Maybe she wants to hear about something specific.

DB: No, I want to just--

MH: Okay.

DB: hear your stories. You were born in the Sissler Clinic (ph).

TH: Yes, and I was--

DB: Which is--

TH: -- raised in Bristow on the west side. I remember living in a little house on Elm Street between Seventh and Eighth Street.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: The house is still there. There were three little frame homes and we lived-- I remember living in that house.

DB: So you would've been grade school age?

TH: I wasn't grade school age. I wound up-- my mother put me in the Catholic Kindergarten.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Well tell her the story behind that. That's a cute story.

TH: My grandfather was-- Oklahoma was very anti-Catholic.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: An example, in 1960 John F. Kennedy lost Oklahoma by 100,000 votes and he was a Democrat.

DB: Oh my.

TH: He lost because he was a Catholic.

DB: I--

TH: Yeah.

DB: I didn't know that.

TH: It was-- it was a really anti-- anti-Catholic here. When I went to-- my grandfather did not want my mother to put me in the Catholic Kindergarten because they had nuns.

DB: Hmm. For the teachers?

TH: Yes, Sister Melba (ph) I can still remember the nuns name and it was discipline. If you got-- did something wrong she'd whack you with a ruler on the 00:06:00back of your hand.

DB: Hmm.

TH: And I remember that and I cried 'cause I couldn't go to school, and mother finally took me up there and enrolled me.

MH: You said you would watch the kids.

TH: I would watch 'em all go to school and I'd sit out there-- out on the front porch and cry 'cause I couldn't go to school. I was five years old, whatever I was. And down the street the Brown's lived down the street and there was a dog down there, his name was Major-- in a pen.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Major was the dog of Major Quince Brown, who was a fighter pilot in World War II.

DB: Oh.

TH: And got shot down in Germany and this was his dog and his squadron made-- chipped in and shipped the dog home to his parents.

DB: Oh, how wonderful!

TH: I remember going down there.

DB: Huh.

TH: And that's some of my memories from--

DB: So the children-- so whenever you went to kindergarten at the Catholic School, there wasn't a kindergarten like in the--

TH: No.

DB: -- public school.

TH: No, public school started--

DB: So if you wanted to go to school--

TH: --started in first grade.

DB: --you had to go to the Catholic Kindergarten.

TH: Yes.

DB: Alright.

TH: That's the only kindergarten there was.

MH: There was no--

DB: You must really wanted to go to school?

TH: I wanted to be with all those kids.

DB: (Laughter)

MH: There was no preschool. The only thing we had-- of course I'm ten years younger than he is. But by the time I was that age-- three, four years old, there was a program-- Mrs. Couch (ph) who lived on the east side of town--

DB: Mm-hmm

MH: -- and I think it was maybe Seventh-- Six or Seventh Street, East. She had Mrs. Couch's (ph) play school, that's what it was called. And so that's where we-- a lot of us went when we were three, four, five years old.

DB: Kinda like what Ms. Dial's (ph)--

MH: Yes.

DB: -- turned into--

MH: Yes.

DB: -- later on.

MH: Yes. So I have no idea when kindergarten actually started in Bristow. But 00:08:00there was no Kindergarten because we went from Mrs. Couch (ph) to first grade.

DB: M-kay.

MH: And I don't think Mrs. Couch (ph)-- was Ms. Couch (ph) around when you were--

TH: No.

MH: Okay.

TH: No there's no-- nobody had a school. This was-- this was it. The Catholic--

DB: Where was the Catholic school?

TH: Right where the Parish Hall is now at the Catholic Church. The nun's lived there. There was a little house that they lived in.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And it was Protestant kids going to school with the Catholic kids.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MH: And they kid's had school there. They went up through sixth grade; didn't they, Todd?

TH: Yeah, they went all the way through the sixth grade at the Catholic School and then they went to public school.

DB: But you just went there in kindergarten--

TH: Kindergarten--

DB: -- then went to public school.

TH: Yes. And then when I went to public school at Edison.

DB: And where was Edison then?

TH: Right there on Main Street where there's a school there now. What's it called?

DB: Well where Edison is now?

MH: Yes.

TH: Is that Edison?

DB: But it was an older-- it wasn't--

TH: Oh yeah. It was an old brick building.

MH: It wasn't that building.

TH: It's been torn down and rebuilt.

DB: Okay.

TH: Yeah that's where I went to first grade.

DB: So Edison's always been right there in the same location pretty much?

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: Yes.

DB: M-kay. Anything else from those early years--

MH: Tell her about your first grade. How it--how you failed-- what happened to you in first grade?

TH: Oh, I failed the first grade.

(Laughter)

TH: And they handed out the report cards at the end of school.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And I'm walking home. My parents had moved this time on West Ninth Street and I'm walking home from school and this kid that I don't know who he was. He looked at it and he says "You failed, and your gonna have to take first grade over again." and I went home crying. I was just absolutely devastated and you know, they hadn't told me this. Mother (inaudible) and here I have the report 00:10:00card that said I was gonna be held back.

MH: Tell her why.

TH: Well, I don't know why I guess--

MH: You said it was 'cause you were sickly.

TH: I was a sickly young--

MH: That you missed a lot of school.

TH: Yeah, I missed a lot of school.

DB: Oh.

TH: I was a sickly child. So I got held back a year and it just devastated me. I remember coming home crying. I remember they were so--. I remember hitting that 00:11:00porch and just bawling and squalling and--

DB: Oh my.

TH: I was so upset. Mother didn't exactly handle it right.

MH: (Laughter) no.

DB: Just-- what did--

MH: Didn't tell him. They didn't tell him.

DB: Oh.

TH: Yeah.

MH: You don't do that to a child (Laughter).

TH: So--

DB: So you did first grade twice.

TH: I did the first grade twice.

DB: And you weren't as sick the second time?

TH: No. My first year-- the ladies name, I can't remember her name. The second first grade was Mrs. Holcomb.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Mildred Holcomb.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And I remember all my teachers all through the Edison school years.

DB: Well that's something.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: Yeah, I can remember every one of them.

DB: So Mrs. Holcomb was your second first grade teacher.

MH: (Laughter)

TH: Yes, and then--

DB: And second grade was?

TH: Ms. Bath (ph).

DB: Ms. Bath (ph).

TH: She was a lady-- she and her husband were murdered out north of Bristow.

DB: I remember that name.

TH: Okay the second--

DB: Third grade?

TH: Third grade was Ms. Simms (ph).

DB: Ms. Simms (ph)?

TH: And the fourth grade was Mrs. Kelly (ph).

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And who later moved to Clinton. And the fifth grade I can't remember. I think it was Mrs. Styles (ph).

DB: Mm-hmm

TH: Or Mrs. Styles (ph) maybe could've been the sixth grade. Anyway, there's one in there I can't remember exactly--

MH: She taught math when I was in junior high. Styles (ph) did.

TH: Okay then, when I went to junior high is when you didn't have a homeroom. You passed around.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Seventh, eighth and ninth grade.

DB: And where was the junior high?

MH: Right there.

DB: Like where the auditorium used to be?

TH: Yes. That was the junior high-- that was a--

MH: Because the-- because the junior high building had an auditorium.

DB: It was all right there. There was Edison and the Junior High and the High School.

MH: Yes, ma'am.

DB: All right there in that--

MH: Yes.

DB: -- one little block area.

TH: And then there was another brick building there, the Clinic building they called it. Its where the band--

MH: Band building.

TH: -- band building was.

MH: It's where Joe Fusco was.

TH: Yes.

DB: Oh.

MH: And then I don't know about-- see we had LeForce Fieldhouse across the street.

DB: Yes.

MH: And that's where we would have gym classes and that's where we would do assemblies and stuff when I was in school. That's what you probably did too--

DB: But there was a gym behind the junior high also.

TH: Junior High Gym.

MH: But we didn't-- when we were in high school, we went to across the street.

DB: Yes.

MH: I remember the Junior High gym when I was in junior high but then I don't know what happened to it (Chuckling) after that.

TH: Tore it down.

MH: That's right.

DB: No, it's part of the building.

TH: Hmm?

MH: I mean we would go-- we would have like dances there. We had like the Junior 00:14:00High Dance at one point I think--

DB: In the gym?

MH: Yeah.

DB: We had junior high dances in Leforce Fieldhouse whenever I was--

MH: Yeah.

DB: --teaching at the-- while it was not the high school then it was the junior high.

TH: Excuse me.

DB: You're fine.

MH: Right, so yeah. But its, yeah. It's all-- it was all right there. It was easy. Of course Washington was on the other side.

DB: Mm-hmm. Well since he's gone a few minutes--

MH: Yes.

DB: Lets catch up a little bit with you.

MH: Well, I'm the oldest of four children. My maiden name was Hughes. I was born in September of 1949. I was born in Tulsa. My grandparents built the house that 00:15:00I'm living in now and so my dad lived here his whole life except for when we lived various places around town.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: But I'm sure you've heard stories about Dr. King.

DB: Yes.

MH: Okay, I have an interesting story about Dr. King. When I was just a few weeks old, I got really sick with something. I don't know what it was. And my grandmother insisted that they take me back to Tulsa to go to some fancy-schmancy doctor.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And he had them do something and they brought me home. Well evidently as the night-- the day and evening wore on, I got worse. And so my grandmother, Mary whom I called mom as I was growing up-- she said, "Okay, we just have to call Doc King." And he came and he took a look at me and he said, "We need to flush out her system or she's going to die." And so he told my mother to take a bottle 00:16:00of turpentine--

DB: (Gasp)

MH: --and to take a spoon and dip it down into the turpentine just to kind of coat the spoon and then put it in the bottle because she wasn't nursing me. For whatever reason, I was on a bottle. So he said put that down in the bottle with the milk and my mother evidently said, "I can't do that, I'll kill her." And he said "This will give her diarrhea" or whatever it was and he said, "If we don't do it, she's not gonna live." So, mother did that and sure enough, and so the story always makes me a little sad. It was great joy to my mother that he came to my wedding--

DB: (Gasp) Oh my goodness!

MH: She always used to talk about that.

DB: It gives me chills. (Chuckling)

MH: Yeah and she-- because she credited him-- she always credited him with 00:17:00saving my life.

DB: Oh, that's amazing.

MH: And I--

DB: After the schmancy doctors in Tulsa didn't have anything.

MH: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

DB: And he came to your home and visited--

MH: Oh for sure! Yeah and there's great-- there's great stories about Doc King. I don't know how many people that are alive now actually remember--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --you know.

DB: His name hasn't come up often.

MH: Isn't that interesting?

TH: My father talked about Doc king. My dad had Malaria when he was a young person and Doc King got him through it.

DB: That's amazing.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: He was always talking about Doc King.

MH: But I was-- I was married in '72 in the old Methodist church-- the original one.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MH: And there's a picture or somewhere of him coming into the church. And he had to have people helping him. And then when the Historical Society Newsletter that came out just recently, there was an article about him in there and I read when he died and it wasn't too long-- maybe a year or two after I had gotten married. And he was already not--

DB: He was holding on to come--

(Laughter)

MH: Not-- I don't think so. But he was like already ninety-something. You know?

DB: That's pretty amazing.

MH: Yeah. Yeah, I mean-- you know, yeah, it's a pretty cool story I think.

DB: Yes.

MH: Okay, Todd go ahead I'll stop now.

TH: (Chuckling) I don't know-- I don't know where we were.

DB: Let's see, so we had-- we were talking about the gyms--

TH: Alright.

DB: --any other things from elementary time or--

TH: Oh!

DB: --grammar school time--

TH: Well, a lot of the kids that I went to school with in grade school I wound up going all twelve years with them.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And graduated from high school with them and there's three or four of 'em that I see on a regular basis today that are still alive.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And we are still-- were still, ya know not close friends but we're-- we know 00:20:00each other.

DB: And what class did you graduate in?

TH: 1958.

DB: 1958.

TH: But my grandfather-- I have to tell this story. This is the greatest-- this is the greatest story that you're ever gonna hear.

DB: Okay, I can't wait.

TH: When I was five or six years old, I don't know how old I was. My grandfather had the jewelry store on Main Street in Bristow. It was right across the street from the Prince's theatre and where Kemp's Drug Store is today.

MH: Tell her the name of the store.

TH: Searcy's Jewelry Store. Well, I have a friend, I'm still his friend. He's a retired attorney in Cushing.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: His name is Stewart Arthurs (ph).

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: We found two stool plungers in the back of my grandfather's jewelry store. We decide to have a sword fight, well we know we can't have a sword fight in that store.

MH: Did you tell her how old you were at the time?

TH: I was five or six--

DB: Yeah, he--

TH: --years old, I can't--

MH: Okay.

TH: --remember how old I was, (Chuckling) maybe four, five, six. So we snuck those stool plungers out and we're out there on the sidewalk on the street 00:21:00having a sword fight with stool plungers.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: Now at this time, Main Street in Bristow was Route 66. This was before the turnpike. The turnpike wasn't completed until 1953. This would've been in 1945, '46 something like that. Bristow had a beat cop on Main Street named Theodore Abraham.

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: That walked up and down Main Street 'cause you had seven or eight beer joints on Main Street and you had to-- and a couple of pool halls. You had to have somebody maintaining peace down there.

DB: And traffic.

TH: Theodore did it.

DB: Lots of traffic.

TH: Lots of traffic. Lots of traffic. We're out there having a sword fight. Well Theodore Abraham he's ornery as can be anyway.

DB: (Chuckling)

TH: Would you believe, he stopped the traffic on main street and Stewart (ph) and I are out there having this sword fight and we were just little kids.

DB: And he stopped the traffic.

TH: He stopped traffic. He walked out there in the middle of the street and stopped traffic in both directions so we could have this sword fight.

DB: Oh my!

MH: (Laughter)

TH: My mother comes out there and my grandfather and they see what's going on. 00:22:00Oh my goodness, we got screamed and hollered at and I remember we got taken to the back room and my grandfather paddled both of us.

DB: Oh my.

(Laughter)

TH: And mother called Stewarts (ph) mother and she said we'll paddle him when gets home.

(Laughter)

TH: I told my friend, Stewart (ph)-- I talk to him about once a month-- he's had a stroke and his health is not real good. So I keep checking on him over at Cushing. And I told him that there was gonna be an interview for this oral history thing.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: He said, "Be sure and tell 'em about the sword fight"

(Laughter)

DB: Well I'm glad you told that--

TH: Oh I--

DB: --that is pretty something.

TH: Yes. That's-- that was a good deal.

DB: That is something.

TH: But Bristow was a real good place to grow up. Because I had the run of the whole town. In junior high I had a bicycle, I could go anywhere. I'd go out in 00:23:00the country. I had a BB gun. I would shoot sparrows off the wires. I knew what I could do and couldn't do. The policeman knew who I was. If I knew if I got out of line, I was in trouble. It's like everybody looked after everybody.

MH: That's true.

DB: Mm-hmm

TH: It was-- it was that way.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: You didn't-- you know, you said, yes sir and no sir. You were just happy, happy, happy.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Would that be true Mary D.?

MH: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm.

TH: Yeah. I remember driving by this house on my bicycle going to the Bristow 00:24:00swimming pool. 'Cause I'd always liked to drive up Sixth Street because it was paved with concrete. It wasn't driving on the bricks.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And I always looked at this house and golly I wonder who lives in that big house now.

DB: (Chuckling)

TH: I never saw anybody outside, so--

DB: Didn't know you'd end up living in it one day?

TH: I sure didn't. Well I didn't know her.

DB: Mm-hmm.

(Laughter)

TH: So that was-- that was a good story right there.

DB: That was a good story.

TH: And we had-- we had summertime, we had that swimming pool out there and they had softball games across the street all the time.

DB: So the softball field was still where the softball is now?

TH: Yes, ma'am.

DB: But the swimming pool was much different?

TH: Oh it was-- it was a lot bigger. It was 800,000 gallons. It was 200 feet long and a hundred feet wide. I know because I worked out there for two summers--

MH: He was a lifeguard.

TH: --I was a lifeguard. Guess who my boss was? Joe Ihle!

MH: (Chuckling)

DB: Oh my goodness.

TH: Let me tell you something--

DB: He was head lifeguard? (Chuckling)

TH: He was-- Joe was-- no he was the manager--

DB: He was the manager.

TH: Joe was hard to work for. I remember the word "Stupid, stupid, stupid!"

(Laughter)

DB: I can still hear that.

TH: Oh, I can-- I can see--

DB: I think he still says that!

TH: I can see Joe telling that and this is when we still had segregation.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --and I remember the blacks coming out there wanting to go swimming and not being able to go. Getting turned back.

DB: Hmm.

TH: And I can remember Joe Ihle teaching swimming lessons to these women that came from Sapulpa. About ten or twelve of 'em and Joe was a good looking man and he'd always wait until those women got out there and then here would come ole Joe and he's struttin' down through there.

(Laughter)

TH: The other lifeguard was the guy named Burton Lincoln that summer. We called him Abe Lincoln. He was a super smart man, had a double major in college--

DB: Hmm.

TH: --foreign languages of English and no of Spanish and French.

DB: Wow.

TH: Anyway we'd sit over there and wondering. And old Abe said, "I wonder which one he's gonna go home with this afternoon".

(Laughter)

TH: And we'd say that about ole Joe and we never teased Joe. Joe was real sensitive. You couldn't tease Joe very much. But he'd teach those ladies swimming and open that swimming pool up at two o'clock in the afternoon. And here'd come all these kids.

MH: That's late. You didn't open until two?

TH: Opened at two.

DB: And so the ladies would come do their swimming lessons before--

TH: At one o'clock, yes.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Yeah. Well it would take us until after they'd had that-- and they started this Day Camp thing--

DB: Yes.

MH: Right.

TH: And they'd all come to the swimming pool at eleven and we'd have to go out there in the morning and clean the pool. We had to-- the deep end of the pool 00:27:00didn't have much circulation and the bottom would get dirty and we had an underwater breathing device.

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: With a ninety-pound weight and we'd vacuum the deep water.

DB: So Day Camp-- you were the life guard--

TH: No, we didn't have anything to do with the Day Camp.

DB: Oh.

TH: We were gone by eleven and here came the Day Camp to swim. And then after they'd get through we'd have to go clean up everything where they were swimming.

DB: So you were about a junior or a senior in high school?

TH: I was a-- I did it between my junior and senior year. And I did it after my senior year. I did it for two summers.

DB: Two summers.

TH: It was the best job in Bristow. They paid me forty dollars a week. A dollar an hour for labor in the morning and we got to split the proceeds from the rental of the swim fins and the goggles and that kind of stuff. And Joe got the 00:28:00towels and the swimsuits that they rented.

DB: Hmm.

MH: They rented swim suits?

TH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And towels?

TH: Yeah. Oh we had tourists come through and not have a swimsuit and want to go swimming.

DB: Huh.

TH: Yeah, Joe would do that and then his wife's name was Margie (ph). She'd take that stuff home and wash it.

DB: Wow.

TH: Yeah, I was making-- I was making money.

DB: You were.

TH: That was the best job. You could do that or haul hay for two cents a bale.

DB: And a lot hotter to haul hay than it is to lifeguard.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: (Chuckling)

TH: Oh, that was the best job in town.

DB: And a lot harder work.

TH: All these little ole girls would show up to come visit grandma for the summer and they'd take them to the swimming pool.

DB: Come to the pool.

TH: Yeah.

DB: Ah, yes. I kinda have to tell on my husband. He still-- he still likes to drive by the swimming pool in the summer, but he said "It's just not the same as it used to be."

MH: Same. (Laughter)

TH: Well that was--

DB: Just not the same.

MH: No.

TH: Well that was-- that was built by an Indian.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And he gave it to the city. That's how the city wound up-- the city didn't build that pool. This Indian man did--

DB: The original-- the first pool.

TH: First pool and it held 800,000 gallons of water.

DB: That's--

TH: It was huge! It was a hundred-feet long-- two-hundred feet long and a hundred-feet wide. Had three diving boards.

DB: Mm-mm-mm.

TH: It was-- and it was a beautiful, beautiful pool.

DB: Now I've heard it-- it had a name?

MH: Silver Plunge.

TH: Silver Plunge.

DB: The Silver Plunge. Hmm. Well maybe one day we'll have--

MH: Yeah, now that that passed--

DB: Something--

MH: Hopefully--

DB: --that our kids can have in the future.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: We'll keep our fingers crossed. Okay, so we've made it through high school and lifeguarding.

TH: (Chuckling) Yeah!

DB: What happened after high school?

TH: Oh, I--

MH: He was quite the football player in high school.

DB: Oh!

TH: Nah. Nah, not really--

MH: Yes, you were Todd.

TH: I went to school with a bunch of real good athletes. There was a group, they were-- they were good.

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: We had a good football team. Well first off, lets back up.

DB: Okay.

TH: I played on a team that had the longest losing streak in Oklahoma.

MH: (Chuckling) Now Todd is that--

TH: I didn't play in every game.

MH: --you're not telling the truth are you?

TH: Oh yeah! Bristow lost twenty-six straight games.

DB: Oh my!

TH: When I was in the tenth grade, we broke the loss. We beat somebody. We won one game. We tied a game and we won a game. I remember that.

DB: But the streak was broken.

TH: The streak was broken and the coach we had was a real nice guy. His son and I are great buddies. Coach McCoy (ph).

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: But he left and he went to-- went out west somewhere.

Pause in recording.

MH: Well I-- I guess I could talk about my paternal grandparents, the Hughes.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And--

DB: They're the ones who built the house?

MH: Yes.

DB: Okay.

MH: And they-- he-- his name was Moody Sanky Hughes and he went by Mood. Most 00:32:00people called him Mood.

DB: Mood?

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Mood Hughes?

MH: Mood Hughes. He was named after-- He was born in Pennsylvania originally and he was born in 1860 something, 1870-- I could go look it up. And there was a famous evangelist evidently at that time, that had the name Moody. Whether it was first name or last name I don't know and the Sanky-- S-A-N-K-Y-- was from some singer and so his official-- he'd signed everything M.S. Hughes. But most 00:33:00people called him mood.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And he had a third grade education and he loved-- he worked in the oil fields in Pennsylvania. He was one of six or seven children and he went to work as a young boy working in the oil fields.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Back east, and then he came to Oklahoma as he was a teenager to work in the oil field. And that's how it all started.

DB: Now did his whole family move to Oklahoma or just he came--

MH: Eventually, some of them moved. But he--he was the first one.

DB: And he was a young man then?

MH: Teenager.

DB: A teenager?

MH: Mm-hmm. And came and started working in the oilfields and then just kind of worked his way up. He and Tom Slick (ph) you've heard the name Tom Slick (ph)?

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MH: He and Tom Slick (ph) were partners at one time and I've been told everything they did was by a handshake. They never had anything written down.

DB: Wow.

MH: And that's when-- after his partnership with Tom Slick (ph) is when he 00:34:00started his own company and it changed names. It was called various things and I will-- I will get-- I've got a lot of this written down and I can give you the exact names, but that's how that all started. And he was in Drumright for a while and then that's when he met my grandmother and I think-- I think there's a family story there that was never quite told. Because of the, you know-- the difference in their ages and how they ended up. She worked for him.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And was a secretary, and then they ended up moving here and as a wedding present to her he built this house.

DB: And how many years were there between them?

MH: Twenty? Twenty or twenty-one years' difference in age.

DB: Oh wow.

MH: And he had been married before and had had a child and she had died as a young girl. Either of pneumonia or the flu. When was the flu pandemic?

TH: 1919, 19--

MH: That might've been, you know it's all kind of fuzzy because I never knew him. He died before I was born.

DB: Hmm.

MH: So.

DB: But this house was a wedding gift that he had built for her?

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Wow.

MH: They, they--

DB: And all on a third grade education?

MH: Yes, ma'am.

DB: Mm-hmm. And he-- it was started in '23 and completed in '24 and so they had lived here for three years before they adopted my dad. He was born in '27. So, yeah. Okay Todd you go on.

TH: Oh well--

DB: Football!

MH: Yeah.

DB: Football.

TH: Okay, yeah. We had a-- the school board members.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: They went down to Norman, and they wanted a good coach.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And they wound up hiring a man that played on a national championship 00:37:00football team at OU.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: He was on the 1955 OU National Championship Team. His name was Cal Woodworth and they hired him and paid him extra to come up here to coach. And he coached up here for two years.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And it was a whole different deal when Coach Woodworth showed up because you went out there and you had a lot of fundamentals.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And it was entirely different, and he got the mileage out of us. First year I think we won six games--

DB: Oh wow!

TH: -- this is off a team that hadn't-- had this losing streak. That's a true story about the losing streak. That was in the Oklahoma City Newspaper.

DB: Hmm.

MH: (Laughter)

TH: Uhh--

MH: It must be true then if it was (Chuckling)--

TH: Twenty-six straight games.

DB: Wow.

TH: This would've been in the 50's. Yeah--

MH: Well how many games did you win your senior year?

TH: I think we won eleven and we got to the semi-finals and got beat and we thought we could win it all but we didn't. We ran on to a team called Ada (Chuckling).

DB: (Laughter)

TH: Ada beat everybody.

DB: Yeah.

TH: Anyway--

DB: And they came back a few years later and were pretty tough too.

TH: Oh yes.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: Then we had a basketball coach who was-- he looked like he was about-- he was a student, he looked so young. His name was Cletus James (ph), and these two coaches just died within the last year-- year and a half.

DB: Oh really!

TH: Yeah, they really had an influence on a lot of young men. And long story short they won the State Class A Foot-- Basketball Championship. So in time--

DB: So Bristow was--

TH: --Bristow High School men have ever won a state championship.

DB: Was in--

TH: 1958.

DB: 1958.

MH: Your senior year.

TH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And you were on the basketball team?

TH: No, I didn't play my senior year--

DB: Oh.

TH: --because I wanted a job to make money and I worked in the Sukovaty feed store.

DB: I've heard that name.

TH: And delivered-- we delivered-- worked after school and on Saturdays delivering feed, because we had a lot of dairies back then.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And this-- this was before cattle cubes. I remember the first sack of cattle cubes I saw, but they had all this dairy feed and I remember it was all in hundred pound sacks.

DB: (Chuckling)

TH: (Chuckling) And you had to be a stud duck to pick up a hundred-pound sack on your shoulder and carry it.

DB: All day long!

TH: Well yeah. You'd take twenty of 'em on a back of a pick-up truck, that's two-thousand pounds. And take them out to a dairy. But there were a lot of dairies in this area. So I didn't--

I didn't play. I'm sorry I didn't.

MH: Well you've also said, Todd you weren't very good.

TH: Well I-- Let me, let me say this I thought I was a lot better than I really was.

(Laughter)

TH: But we had some good athletes.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Some good kids and you had to have to win all those-- all those-- I think they only lost two games my senior year.

MH: And you played college football.

TH: Well yeah, that's-- that's a different story. But anyway, that all-- that all happened and of course while all this is all going on my daddy brought home a Beagle dog one day and we started rabbit huntin' and there weren't any deer in this country back then. There were no deer.

DB: Huh.

TH: The wildlife department put the deer in about in-- started in the 40's but they really didn't take off until the 50's. I remember the first deer season they had was in 1953 here and it was a one-day season and you could kill one buck.

DB: A one-day season?

TH: Mm-hmm. It was a one-day season.

DB: Hmm.

TH: And then I remember they started it-- after that they went to a four-day season, it'd be Thanksgiving weekend. It was four days and you could kill one buck. You couldn't kill a doe; it was just one buck. And I remember when they 00:41:00expanded that to a week and then now it's two weeks for rifle season.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: In bow season it's three months.

DB: But they didn't have all those different classifications of seasons when they started. It was just a one day.

TH: One day--

DB: Whatever you had to kill 'em with.

TH: One day you had to shoot 'em with a shotgun--

DB: Oh.

TH: --and a rifle slug.

DB: No bow or anything like--

TH: No, they didn't have any bow season back then. I remember the first bow season was at Spavinaw Refuge.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And that was about that time. You couldn't even buy a bow and arrow anywhere hardly. If you wanted to buy one, you had to buy it out of a catalog. And they didn't have these fancy bows like they--

DB: Like they do now.

TH: --just long bows--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --back then.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Anyway, that was-- that was all the hunting and I always did that and then-- then my dad and three other guys had permission to hunt on the Mills Ranch and 00:42:00there was a big pond down there. The pond is still there and they had a duck blind on that pond. I remember going down there and going duck hunting, freezing to death and--

DB: Where's the Mills--

TH: Uh--

DB: Is it--

TH: That was southeast of Bristow.

DB: --south of town--

TH: Yeah. Ethan Mills came here before statehood--

MH: Explain to her who-- what the connection on down the line is to Ethan Mills, because I don't know if she's talked to anybody that would've explained that.

DB: No.

TH: Okay. Ethan Mills came here before statehood.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: From Missouri and he had a ranch. There's a lot of grass land south and east of Bristow. As you go that way from Bristow there's a lot of open ground.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: It doesn't have this cross timber-- this scrub oak on it. And he had that 00:43:00and they drilled wells on him and he was wealthy. And he would let my dad and three other men, Bus Blackburn, Mose LeForce and Clyde Warner hunt ducks down there on this big lake. To the north there was another big lake that he had built called Thoroughbred and he'd let Mr.-- Mr. Earl Ford and his friends hunt on it.

MH: Earl Ford was Wanda Newton's dad.

DB: Oh okay.

TH: At Ford Hardware.

DB: Okay.

TH: Okay. Anyway, I remember doing all that down there. Well Ethan Mills had two children and Ernest Mills who had the ranch over south of Edna (ph) and then Lucy Mae, who was an old maid. She wound up marrying Mr. Clayton Dial.

DB: Oh!

TH: And I believe if-- there's a lot of money that's been given away, when she passed away.

DB: Yes.

TH: I believe the Baptist Church got old.

MH: And that's what started the Library Board Inc.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Was money from that and I think-- where else did she leave her money?

TH: I think the Baptist Church got a bunch of it and I believe the elevator in the Baptist church was built for her.

DB: And she was a Mills?

TH: She was a Mills, but she married Clayton Dial Sr.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TH: Who committed suicide.

DB: And the Ethan Mills made his money from old oil wells--

TH: Ranching. Ranching--

DB: Oh, from ranching.

TH: --he had white face cattle.

MH: But they all-- so you just-- you just said that they drilled on his land.

TH: Yeah there's-- there's still wells out there--

DB: So he got mineral rights, he got part of that.

TH: Yes. Yes.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And raised--

TH: He borrowed from the Indians. See the Indians had no sense of ownership of surface acres.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And they-- they'd get a deed to it and what they-- they'd take it and sell it. Until the Drummond's (ph) got their land in Osage County.

DB: Hmm.

TH: Come borrow money from the Drummond Hardware Store in Hominy. Signed a quick claim deed. They didn't come pay by pay day, they'd go file the deed at the court house and we own the surface.

DB: There you go.

TH: So anyway, that's the long story short that-- that was all going on in Bristow. I have a Joe Ihle story, would you like to hear it?

DB: Sure, let's hear a Joe Ihle story.

TH: Alright. We had a junior high football coach here for years named Bus Blackburn. You may have had him teaching you in school if you went to school here.

DB: I didn't.

TH: Well, Bus was a school teacher and he was teaching school in Beaver, 00:46:00Oklahoma when World War II started. He wound up in the Navy. Joe Ihle wound up in the Marine Corp.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Joe Ihle winds up on Iwo Jima.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Bus Blackburn is off the coast of Iwo Jima on a gun boat. Let's go forward to 1957 or '58 at the Bristow swimming pool. Joe Ihle is setting around out there and old Bus comes out and they're talking and visiting and everything else. Hell, I didn't know Joe Ihle had been to Iwo Jima. I knew Bus had been in the Navy but I didn't know what Bus did. They didn't talk about it.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Those two guys get to talking. Joe Ihle is talking on a radio to the gun 00:47:00boat directing fire. Guess who he's talking to?

DB: (Chuckling) who?

TH: He's talking to Bus Blackburn.

DB: That is crazy.

MH: Isn't that crazy?

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: I'm sure you didn't hear that story from Joe?

DB: No. No.

MH: (Chuckling) No.

DB: He won't talk about any of those days, so I'm glad that you shared that because they'd be lost anyway-- otherwise.

TH: Well, I go to the bank to see Joe Ihle the last week of February every year.

DB: Mm-hmm. Yep. You know he's still-- he's still going in there. Brent says he goes in about once a week.

TH: I'll, I'll--

DB: Checks on his stuff.

TH: I'll tear up telling this story, but I go in and shake his hand to say 00:48:00thanks coach.

MH: Yep. Well now, tell her a funny story. Tell her about--

TH: (Chuckling)

MH: --what Mose LeForce used to do with some of you guys. You know who Mose LeForce is I'm sure?

DB: It is Clyde's dad?

MH: Yes.

TH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Okay.

TH: Rosemary's father-in-law.

DB: Yes.

TH: Mose lived right across from my parents on Ninth Street. You talking about the 'coon huntin'?

MH: Yes.

DB: Now, but he's the LeForce that they named the fieldhouse for.

TH: That's right. He was a--

MH: Yes, he was a coach.

DB: Okay.

MH: Yes.

DB: Okay.

TH: He was the football coach here for years.

MH: Yes.

DB: Okay, then I've got it. I've got the right person.

TH: Have you ever been to Jamil's in Tulsa?

DB: I have.

TH: Have you seen the picture on the wall of the football game--

MH: She's probably been to the new one not the old one, Todd.

DB: No, I went to the old one for prom. (Laughter)

TH: Alright.

MH: Uh-huh.

DB: And I haven't been back!

(Laughter)

DB: I mean it was wonderful but--

MH: Yeah. (Chuckling)

DB: --it was like 1977--

MH: Right.

DB: --or '78--

TH: There was a picture on a football on the --

DB: On the wall.

TH: --of the Bristow football team in 1932 or '31, '32.

DB: And he's on that picture.

TH: My dad was in it. Jimmy Elias, which is Jamil--

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: --was on it. Ed Elias (ph), which was Eddie's Steakhouse was on it. All their pictures there. They all got their letter sweater on.

DB: I wonder if they moved it--

TH: It's still on that-- I think it's still in the new one.

DB: --to the new place.

MH: I don't know.

DB: That'd be worth the trip just to see if it's--

MH: Uh-huh

TH: Go up there--

DB: still up there.

TH: Go up there and ask for Bernard say, "Is your daddy's picture and football team still on the wall?" Cause I think--

DB: I heard stories, I need to see this picture.

MH: Yeah.

TH: Tell him you talked to Todd Herman. Yeah.

DB: M-Kay.

TH: Okay. Anyway, Mose and we'd go 'coon huntin' and my mother, "Oh my, when you gonna be home?" "Well we'll be home by eleven o'clock." Well hell we wouldn't come home until almost time the sun come up.

(Laughter)

TH: We'd be up to here with 'em.

MH: Well didn't you say that he would take you before school too?

TH: Oh yeah! That's another story.

MH: (Chuckling) That's what I was talking--

TH: Oh yeah!

DB: And you made it to school?

TH: No! I didn't go to school, I'd go home and instead of knocking on the door, mother had a little swing out on the front porch. I'd lay down there and go to sleep. Mother would finally come out there and she'd-- "You come in the house!". Boy I gotta tell ya, I forgot about that. Mose LeForce taught Drivers Ed.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: First class in the morning, he'd get some high school kid-- I was in the tenth grade, taking Drivers Ed. He'd get some high school kid to run his class and we'd go duck hunting.

(Laughter)

TH: Mose LeForce and my dad-- and they'd let me miss Drivers Ed. You know, it was a miss. And we'd go duck huntin'. They wanted me to go around and pick up the dead ducks after they shot 'em that's the reason they wanted me to go.

(Laughter)

TH: Come home and I had-- oh I had-- I could not tell anybody that I had been duck hunting that morning.

DB: Oh my goodness.

TH: The school didn't take up back then until nine o'clock. So the first hour it would be almost ten o'clock by the time we'd get back and--

DB: So you skipped Drivers Ed?

TH: I-- yeah it was-- the coach, Mose would take me. My dad had-- you know, my dad let me go. Oh this was-- it was-- you know; they were-- they were happy I was going, but we had a good time.

DB: Sounds like it.

TH: Well I've told you the sword fighting story.

MH: Your dad started the gun show here.

TH: Oh yeah. That was a big deal.

DB: I-- we don't have a gun show anymore.

MH: Hmm-uh.

TH: That was a real-- that turned out to be a monster deal.

MH: You need to talk about that a little bit.

TH: Okay, yeah. My dad and the county commissioner named Jimmy Weaver (ph).

MH: Have you heard any stories about Jimmy Weaver (ph)?

DB: No.

TH: He was the county commissioner and it was corruption personified.

MH: (Chuckling)

DB: Oh my.

TH: Uh--

MH: Who was corrupt?

TH: Jimmy Weaver (ph)

MH: Your dad wasn't corrupt?

TH: Well Jimmy Weaver (ph) was.

MH: (Laughing)

DB: But they got together--

TH: Are you-- are you familiar with the county commissioner scandal in Oklahoma in the 70's?

DB: No.

TH: Every county there was a federal indictment issued out of federal court in Oklahoma City. And every county but two counties had a county commissioner indicted.

DB: Oh, that's not good.

TH: Oh it was-- it was-- they were thieving. They were getting--

DB: Hmm.

TH: --kickback from suppliers is what they were doing.

DB: Oh.

TH: And they got some woman to testify and line 'em up and the Caterpillar 00:53:00dealer in Oklahoma City was indicted and went-- people went-- people went to prison--

DB: Hmm.

TH: --over this. Well my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) were buddies and they started this gun show.

DB: Like the gun shows they have in Tulsa now?

TH: Yes! This was-- this was the first one. It was called the Bristow National Gun Show and my dad and Jimmy Weaver (ph) put it on.

DB: Huh.

TH: And the county furnished all the tables, and they had it at the armory to start with and they outgrew the armory and they went to the old fairgrounds buildings. Out there by the softball field. You remember those Quonset huts?

DB: Yes. Yes.

TH: They'd fill those things up. They'd have people from all over the country--

DB: Huh.

TH: --come in here for that gun show. It was huge. It was monstrous. They'd let 00:54:00the Bristow Professional the PBW--

DB: Uh-huh.

TH: They cooked and served food out there. It was a big deal.

DB: I didn't even know that we had a gun show like that, ever.

TH: Oh yes!

Pause in recording.

MH: Well I-- he mentioned the dairy. My grandfather--

DB: Yes.

MH: --my grandfather Hughes for some reason developed and interest in milk cows.

DB: Hmm.

MH: And so he started a dairy here. He bought land west of town.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Had quite a bit of acreage at one time and it was called the Bill Mack Dairy after my-- he named it after my dad.

DB: Hmm.

MH: And initially put in this huge stone barn that was unbelievable. Do you know where Beth Roberts lives--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --that takes care of all the stray-- do you know where Paul and Brenda Morris live?

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Where the Kelly's (ph) lived?

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Okay. The log home across the road from Paul and Brenda was originally the Hughes cabin that went with the dairy. And so all of that land, my grandfather owned.

DB: Hmm.

MH: And he had Jersey Cattle and he was nationally known as one of the top breeders of Jersey Cattle in the country. He was president at one time of the Breeders Association blah, blah, blah. And they-- and they produced milk and the milk was delivered to homes in Bristow. Todd remembers as a child--

DB: Hmm.

MH: --getting milk delivered. And when my grandfather died in '48, my 00:56:00grandmother and my dad-- my dad was an only child. They-- they decided to sell The dairy and I have pamphlets that were printed with-- it was like a show dog. The cows were named and had numbers. You know when they were auctioning all the-- all of that off. So, I mean I wasn't alive yet.

DB: And so this-- this dairy was one of many?

MH: Hmm-uh. It was just--

DB: But I mean--

MH: The Bill Mack Dairy.

DB: But there were other dairies around Bristow then? Or that was the only dairy?

TH: No.

MH: I don't know. I don't know that.

TH: There were other dairies.

DB: There were other dairies?

TH: Yes, there was--

DB: But this was a pretty good size dairy you said many head of Jersey--

MH: Yes.

DB: --cows in there--

MH: In fact, he brought some cattle directly over from the Isle of Jersey.

DB: Oh, wow.

MH: And when he started this-- why there was that interest, I have no idea. And they built the log home to live in in the summer when it was so hot.

DB: Hmm.

MH: And my grandmother had a big garden there and I mean I've seen pictures and all of that of course.

DB: And that would've really been in the country?

MH: Yes, it was in the country. Yes. Mm-hmm.

DB: During that time.

MH: Mm-hmm. But when my dad was a child, he had-- they had horses and back here in the backyard there's what we used to call the dog pen when I was growing up. 00:58:00And there's a small outbuilding and it has a stable door on one side and they would keep his horse in town some. And I have a picture of my grandfather on a horse in the front horse in the front yard. It's on the refrigerator

DB: Oh, I saw it as I walked by.

MH: Yes, uh-huh. That was here.

DB: And then they would load the horse up and take--

MH: I guess, I don't know.

DB: Had a horse in town.

MH: And my grandfather bred championship bird dogs. Aren't they? Weren't they bird dogs, Todd?

TH: Mm-hmm. She's got trophies upstairs.

MH: I've got a lot of trophies for his dogs. I guess he was into everything and then he had this drilling company, oil company--

DB: That's just amazing.

MH: --that went through different changes, you know. He'd have one partner and then when he died, I believe it was still Shaull Hughes (ph) then it was Doak 00:59:00and Hughes you know Linda Trigalet and her family was involved and-- yeah. And my dad sold the company when I was a senior in high school, 1967.

DB: What did your dad do?

MH: He ran the drilling company.

DB: Oh. Until he retired or--

MH: He decided that was during when things-- the oil business was not that great at that point and so he sold out. Basically sold his equipment and everything and then went to work for some companies in Tulsa, because he was only in his forties at that point. But my grandfather I guess had been quite successful and 01:00:00I don't know.

DB: What about your mom's family?

MH: My mom-- my mom was a Hodge. Her parents were Vic and Ruby. Grandpa's family came from Arkansas.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: He was one of nine children and I was just reading before you came so I could remember, my grandfather's grandmother-- grandfather was full blood Cherokee and they were from Arkansas. My grandfather was born in Arkansas, but when he was a young boy his family moved from Arkansas, but his mother gave up all of her Indian rights so that the children could attend public school.

DB: Oh my.

MH: So she never-- she never carried over to get on the rolls or anything like 01:01:00that. And they say if you-- a lot of times the Indians that would move into Oklahoma, they did not-- they gave up that because the stigma or and I didn't--

DB: Yes.

MH: -- I didn't, you know the school and stuff. So-- so I'm-- what did we figure, Todd? I'm 1/16th?

TH: 16th.

MH: No, no, no--

TH: Or thirty-second.

MH: Thirty-second.

TH: Yeah.

MH: Cherokee.

TH: You look at it-- if you look at what the document-- if you look at the thing that her sister wrote--

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: --and start figuring it back where she's 1/32nd.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: And she has no way to prove that and I told her, you need to go do some research--

MH: I do, I have-- I can prove it. We have a family history on the Hodge side so I do have it. I have pictures of his mother in Indian garb and all that. But 01:02:00anyway, my grandmother was a Smith and I-- they were always from Oklahoma and my grandfather and my-- one of my grandmothers, no-- my grandfather and one of his brother in-laws started the Dr. Pepper bottling plant, that I'm sure you've heard about--

DB: Uh--

MH: --that was in Bristow.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And the brother in-law was named-- his name was Clell Long. And his--

DB: So many names in your family.

MH: --and his wife Reba was my grandpas sister.

DB: Huh.

MH: And they started the bottling plant. I have a lot-- I have lots of pictures of that and after several years-- I don't know the story behind it but grandpa 01:03:00sold his portion to Clell and grandpa continued to work for him for a while and then he put in a gas station which was between here and the Pizza Hut. Right Todd? I mean on that-- between where the bank is and the Pizza Hut.

DB: Ida Fadely (ph) had that when I came here in '80, was Fadely's. It was, I don't remember what kind of gas station it was but it was on the hill between Pizza Hut and the bank. So--

MH: It was right in there, Todd. Wasn't it. It was a Texaco Station?

TH: Well, where it was, was down the hill. 66 came out of Bristow and went straight north to the entrance to the RL Jones (ph) property, and made a sharp right turn and went down and there was a bridge over Sand Creek.

DB: Oh.

TH: Right there where the bridge was when you crossed Sand Creek, on the right was a little old gas station and that was the Hodge Station.

DB: Huh.

TH: Yeah, I remember all the oil cans back there in the creek.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Hodge station.

TH: When I was a kid.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: Yeah.

MH: And a funny story and grandma is rolling over in her grave--

DB: (Chuckling)

MH: --by me telling this story. But, grandpa-- grandma would always go down-- she would help him down there, you know. And she'd clean and you know, that kind of stuff. Well, grandpa let her have the coins from the condom machine that was in the men's bathroom (Chuckling).

DB: In the bathroom.

MH: In the bathroom! And so--

TH: Every gas station had a condom machine.

MH: That's right. And so-- I think it was probably a quarter or dime, I don't know.

DB: But he-- she got the coins.

MH: She got the coins and that was her play money.

TH: (Laughter)

MH: You know, that she (Laughter)--

DB: That's funny.

MH: Yeah, yeah. And of course she was kind of embarrassed about that. She wouldn't tell people, so I'm telling that (Inaudible)

DB: (Laughter)

MH: But--

DB: So it'll be down for history's sake.

MH: And then grandpa, he did that for a while and then he went to work for Cunningham Chevrolet. And then he worked for the turnpike at the you know, the gates, you know. And that's where he was working when he retired. He just did a little bit of everything. He actually went through junior high, education wise. My grandmother Hodge actually had a high school diploma which was not real--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --common back then.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And, but yeah and my mother had two brothers. My mother was the oldest. She went to school here of course. Both of my parents grew up in Bristow and lived in Bristow their entire lives.

TH: Well, both of your parents were well educated.

MH: Yes. My-- they both graduated from college. My dad graduated from OSU and then went to graduate school at TU. He was-- he was disabled from the Polio. He had Polio as a child, so he had a little bit of deformity in one hand and he was 01:07:00deaf in one ear. So he didn't qualify, he couldn't get in the-- he couldn't get into the Army. He wanted-- during the war--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --this was the war time and he wanted to go so badly. And he told the story about at OSU he felt like he was one of the few males on campus and in fact he was in a gym class where he was the only person. And the-- the instructor said, "Well this is kind of ridiculous." or something like that. So he said you do what you want to and at the end of the semester, he played daddy a game of something and that was it--

DB: That was his final?

MH: Yeah. But he was so upset that he could not get in the service. Somehow he 01:08:00managed to steal the hearing test.

DB: Mmm.

MH: The patterns, and he memorized it and he got in.

DB: And he got in?

MH: And he was in the Army and he was an MP in Japan after all of that my-- and his job-- one of his MP jobs, was to take the prostitutes every-- gather them up every week and take them for their weekly checkups.

DB: Oh my goodness.

MH: (Chuckling) and my grandmother was so horrified that he was doing that, that she made up what he was doing over there. She wouldn't tell--

DB: Even though she got the play money from the condom--

MH: No this is--

DB: Oh (Chuckling).

MH: Now this is the Hughes.

DB: Oh okay.

MH: This is the Hughes side.

DB: (Laughing)

MH: I'm sorry.

DB: That's alright.

MH: But they-- yeah. She would tell-- she wouldn't tell her church lady friends what he was doing over there.

DB: Oh my goodness.

MH: Now my dad was quite the-- the prankster. He did a lot of stuff. I heard stories about him when I was in high school from some of the same teachers that he had had.

DB: Oh, yes.

MH: Uh-huh.

DB: Yes.

MH: Yeah.

DB: I could do that now. I've had so many different generations come through.

MH: Mm-hmm

DB: And it's hard to not hold that against the child (Chuckling).

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Whenever you-- you know how the parent was--

MH: Right.

DB: --whenever you had them, but--

MH: Uh-huh.

DB: --you do.

MH: And I have-- I have a great story about my dad and Clyde LeForce. Daddy was a few years younger than Clyde so he-- you know he really-- you know he just thought it was so great that Clyde was the star football player and all of this. 01:10:00And so when daddy was still in high school, he was sixteen when Clyde was gonna pay in the Sugar Bowl.

DB: Oh.

MH: When TU was gonna play in the Sugar bowl. So he-- daddy convinced Mose--

DB: Clyde's dad?

MH: Mm-hmm. To take him to-- it was New Orleans wasn't Todd?

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MH: With him. K? So, Mose agreed and my grandparents let him go, K. And so my dad-- my grandfather evidently told Mose said, "You keep an eye on him don't let him out of your sight." 'cause my dad was quite the prankster. Well, once they got down there, the story is that daddy disappeared for like twenty-four hours (chuckling).

DB: (Laughter)

MH: Before the game, but then fast forward to when after my mom dies and we're 01:11:00cleaning out the quarters above the garage and I went in this closet and I found this box. And I opened the box and in that box was the ticket--

DB: To the Sugar Bowl.

MH: --to the Sugar Bowl, the program and a piece of wood or some kind of-- I can't remember what it was. And there was a note in my dad's handwriting that it had come from something that had been torn down after the game. And then had written this little thing about Clyde's performance at the Sugar Bowl. Did they go more than once Todd, or was it just that one time?

TH: Well, it seems like they went twice and I can't remember but--

MH: They won one.

TH: They won one and then the other one, Clyde didn't remember anything about the game after the second-- after the first quarter.

MH: Right.

TH: He got thumped.

MH: He got hit.

TH: He got knocked out.

MH: Because I think it said something about, this came from-- something about the goal post being torn down after TU won. So it must have been the first game so. Well, see Rosemary's daughter Vicki (ph) and I have been lifelong best friends since we were babies and so I gave her all that stuff after you know I found--

DB: Oh, how wonderful.

MH: --so she has all of that. So that was kind of a cool thing, you know.

DB: If they had only known that Mose was a few years earlier, letting kids skip class to go hunting ducks--

TH: It was a--

DB: They probably wouldn't have let him go to the Sugar Bowl.

TH: It was hilarious. I was sworn to secrecy. I couldn't tell anybody about that. Oh my gosh, and I didn't. I didn't.

DB: Oh.

TH: I had this little ole girl ask me. She said, "Where were you this morning?" I said, "Oh, I was late getting up."

DB: (Chuckling)

MH: Well and you need to tell-- you need to-- it needs to be on record about your mom being the town librarian for umpteen thousand years.

TH: Well my mother became the librarian here in 1959. The librarian that they had had been there since they opened the library. That was Ms. Jackson (ph), Ms. Burnett Jackson (ph) and she retired and my mother hired on to run the library. And she was the librarian until up in the '70's I guess.

MH: And you know where the library was don't you?

DB: Where the administration building--

MH: Yes.

TH: That's what it was, a Carnegie library.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: The Carnegie spent the money to put all these libraries--

DB: You don't think she was still there like in '81?

TH: Oh, I can't remember when--

DB: When she retired. I have been here since '81 and I can almost-- I think--

TH: Do you remember my mother--

DB: I think she was the one in there.

MH: She might've been. I don't remember because--

TH: Was she always telling you to be quiet and don't talk.

DB: Yes.

MH: Yeah, that would be her.

DB: She was kind of--

TH: Oh, she was meaner than shit and scary.

MH: (Laughter)

TH: I used to tease here I said, "Hell you're a librarian--

DB: Them closing.

TH: --in a town. You're a librarian in a town nobody can read."

DB: And Rita Oaks (ph) worked in the back and helped and that was Larry's cousin.

MH: See I don't know a Rita Oaks (ph).

DB: Max and Bernice Oaks (ph). Anyway Rita (ph) worked in the library in one of those back offices-- 'cause it seemed like Ms. Herman always set up here at the front.

TH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And she had an office there were two offices behind the central desk.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And then there was somebody else always there, but I can't remember. A boy? A man? I don't know. But anyway, she was the town-- imposing town librarian--

MH: Yes.

DB: -- for many, many years.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Over twenty years--

TH: I didn't live here at that time. I would--

MH: But she was very helpful. You know, because back in the day when we had to do research papers.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, your sophomore, junior and senior year. It was all-- you had to do everything by looking through a card catalog--

DB: Yes.

MH: --and looking up stuff and Mrs. Armith (ph) (chuckling) was extremely helpful--

DB: Yes.

MH: --about that kind of stuff and she was very knowledgeable. You know, she could be a pill but-- and people that we know now that worked with her, you know 01:16:00like student aids or something-- back then would help her at school. I mean at the library after school.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, they loved working with-- she knew a lot for somebody that wasn't a librarian by training. She--

DB: So how did she become the librarian?

MH: Do you know Todd? Do you remember?

TH: The mayor was Bill Shibley (ph). My dad was the city clerk.

DB: And they needed one?

TH: And they-- they needed one and so Bill Shibley (ph) and the council agreed with it and she-- they hired her to be the librarian. She was just pleased as hell to get out of the house and go to the library, and she basically self-trained herself. She had to fuss with the library board all the time.

DB: (Chuckling)

TH: They were very unkind and ignorant. I won't name names.

MH: No.

TH: But they're-- they're here. I think they're--

MH: Todd!

TH: -- probably all gone by now, but anyway--

DB: No names.

MH: No names.

TH: -- oh it was ugly. There was a lot of fussing going on. You know, and--

DB: But she held her own? She held her own.

TH: Pretty much. She did alright and--

DB: Well she built it up to something that was pretty--

TH: Well she got--

DB: --pretty great for--

TH: --she got mad. They had some library graduates. Library science grads come down here from OSU--

DB: Hmm.

TH: --and go through the library. "Oh you don't need this book. You don't need that book." And they went through and they got rid and she had some-- she had some great material down there.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: She had a pictorial history of the Civil War. There were three big volumes and they made her get rid of that. When I found that out I just absolutely--

DB: Hmm.

TH: --I got so upset about that and I went to Bill Bursler (ph) and told him what a dumb shit he was.

MH: Okay Todd. That's enough on that.

TH: So I won't say anymore.

MH: No, don't. Honey, don't.

TH: I could not believe they threw that stuff out.

DB: Yeah.

TH: She said, "I was in tears when they boxed that up and carried it out of here." They had-- they had these library science people come down. You know you still had the old Dewey Decimal System of Classification going back then.

DB: Oh yes.

TH: You remember studying--

DB: Well they still have--

TH: --about that?

DB: Well they still put books up with the Dewey Decimal System but--

TH: Do they? Okay.

DB: Yeah.

TH: That's good.

DB: Well they still have them shelved that way but--

TH: Now everything all digital and--

DB: --but--

TH: -- and all that stuff.

DB: You look everything up digitally but there's still--

TH: That's right. So anyway, that-- I remember being all upset about getting rid of all that Civil War stuff.

DB: I was always the one when Jennifer (ph) would take old books out of the library-- I couldn't let an old book go by and I'd always-- whenever I was teaching and I'd say, "I don't know how I'd use that in my classroom, but let me have that book anyway." And kind of house some of those old books and the kids 01:19:00don't look at books nowadays.

TH: No.

DB: Because it takes time to look at a book. They can't get to it immediately. Some of those books were pictorial of the National Parks.

MH: Priceless. Yes.

DB: Or whatever.

TH: Mm-hmm.

DB: And it just-- I couldn't see her--

TH: No, some of that stuff--

DB: --do away with 'em. So I understand the feeling.

TH: --some of the stuff was published in the 20's.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: You know, it was old.

DB: Mm-hmm. I understand those feelings.

TH: Yeah.

DB: Well now, think hard about--

TH: I have another story--

DB: Okay.

TH: --about my paternal grandfather. He was a Chief of Police.

DB: Okay.

TH: And during the depression there was a lot of poverty. A lot of-- and he started the first soup kitchen. You know what a soup kitchen is?

DB: I do. Now is this the same person who did the gun show?

TH: No.

DB: Okay.

TH: That was my dad.

DB: Okay.

TH: This was his dad.

DB: Okay. Okay. This is his dad.

TH: Who at that time in the 20's or in the 30's was the Chief of Police.

MH: The Judge Herman.

TH: That's the Judge Herman.

DB: Oh, okay. So I know what one is, but why don't you explain what a soup kitchen is.

TH: Well that's where you had a place that you could feed hungry men. Hungry people. Men, women children, whoever showed up. And there was a big ice plant at Main and the railroad tracks.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: On the southeast corner across the street. Really where the--

DB: Community Bank drive-thru--

TH: Community Bank drive in would be.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: It was a great big building. Had a big steam generator in it, and they made ice. Sam Blackburn (ph) was the manager of that thing and they had-- they made ice because the trains would come through here with produce and they'd have to 01:21:00keep-- you didn't have refrigerated--

DB: Right.

TH: --cars back then--

DB: Right.

TH: --if you wanted-- if you were shipping vegetables from California to Chicago, you did it by train and you put ice in it.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And that's the reason you had the ice plant. Well they set the soup kitchen up down there at the ice plant and I remember seeing pictures of men lined up to get food. It was a soup kitchen, they cooked it and fed it-- fed people there.

DB: Was that like during the depression?

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: That's during the depression of the 30's. That's the reason Oklahoma was so heavily democratic for years.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Because of Roosevelt. They didn't like Hoover who was a Republican.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: 'Cause he didn't do anything about the depression. There was no government relief back then. You wound up having the WPA around here and everything. I can 01:22:00show you WPA bridges now that are still on these county roads and bridges and stuff that are still good.

DB: Wasn't it the WPA that did something at the park?

MH: Built--

DB: Built the amphitheater or the--

MH: Built the amphitheater--

TH: Yes, that was the amphitheater,

MH: --and the entrance to the park--

DB: Yes.

MH: --there was the big plaque there which they preserved.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: When they-- when they changed that entrance. The way it looks now with the-- you know they replaced the stone with the brick--

DB: Yes, I remember--

MH: --that was WPA. Wasn't it Todd?

TH: Yes.

DB: I thought I had remembered hearing that.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: And there was a ranch down south of Slick now. You go down this ole ranch road and there's a bridge-- a concrete bridge up there.

DB: Yes.

TH: And it's got WPA on it. And it was an old county road and since it's been abandoned.

DB: Huh.

TH: And there's another WPA bridge out on 201st like you're going to where Levan 01:23:00Kelly lives. Says WPA it's on the concrete. And that was started by president Roosevelt.

MH: So the soup kitchen Todd, that-- there were--

TH: Yeah.

MH: --soup kitchens all over the country.

TH: Yeah. But my grandfather--

MH: But he was the one that started it here--

TH: Started it here in Bristow.

DB: How long did it--

TH: I don't know. I've seen pictures of men. My mother had some pictures. They were probably at the public library and got thrown out with all the trash.

MH: (Laughter)

DB: But that happened for the whole time--

TH: Well we had a great economy--

DB: I know-- good--

TH: Depression had started in October of 1929 and lasted actually until World War II started. We still were in a depression when World War II started.

DB: Okay, so the soup kitchen could've easily been there ten years?

TH: Well, I don't know how long it was--

DB: But it could have been there for a while--

TH: Well no, it's just-- that's the way it was--

MH: Well--

TH: I've always heard this my whole life. "You want (Indecipherable) tell it 01:24:00like it is kid.". He went to a man named RL Jones (ph). Have you ever heard that name?

DB: I have.

TH: That's Roger Collins (ph) grandfather. RL Jones (ph) was a Mississippi planter that came up here. His brother was in on the Cushing oil field. Lots of money. He went to RL Jones (ph), and RL (ph) said "What do you need? Just go down to the Safeway Store and get what you need and I'll take care of it." RL Jones (ph) had a big interest in this country.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: And was very philanthropic.

MH: Well, and I think too, Todd-- I mean like, I did not grow up the way my dad did. My dad lived an extremely charmed life and they had people that worked for 01:25:00them full time. That kind of thing. But my dad-- because during the depression and all that, he lived totally differently than the people that were having to go to the--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --soup kitchens to eat and all that. Because of that and he can remember as a child-- you know, hearing stories and seeing and things with the Dust Bowl and all of that. He was extremely generous. We were taught to be generous.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: He felt like, he never felt he was better than anybody else and he could talk to anybody--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: -- you know, from the lowest of the low to the, you know. So I think 01:26:00everybody came out of that era, especially in Oklahoma. It effected everybody differently--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --you know my mother grow up-- grew up, they didn't have much. She didn't have indoor plumbing until she was like nine years old.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, so it was--

DB: Right. Well, because then my mother, she'll save the smallest portion of food--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --because she can eat it and you know, so--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --and when we-- when my grandmother passed away--

MH: Right.

DB: --we went through her freezer and they would find really small amounts of things--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --but when you live through that time with nothing, you saved everything--

MH: Yes.

DB: --because you didn't know where your next meal was gonna come from or how much you would have. You might need to piece--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --it together with all these--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --little things and so I can see that you had people coming out feeling that 01:27:00they didn't know where their next meal was gonna come from--

MH: Right.

DB: --and then you had the people over here who saw the-- what it had done and wanted to be--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --generous and you know.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: My dad was that way. He was, you know he was a young man during The Depression and had been poor--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --and had a hard time. It had effected my dad--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --all his life.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Anything he could take and convert to cash, he would do it. He got in my mother's jewelry box one time and she had all this jewelry because her grandfather-- her father had the jewelry store.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And when they sold that, she took a bunch of it. And it was-- it was not, you know. He takes it and sells it!

MH: (Laughter)

TH: To Jim Tallent at the pawn shop down here and she comes up and it's missing. 01:28:00And she keeps (Indecipherable) getting in her jewelry box--

DB: Oh my!

TH: --and she raised hell with my dad and made him go back down to Jim Tallent--

DB: (Laughter) and get her jewelry back!

TH: --and get her jewelry back (Laughter). I remember that going on. Do you know what he did? I remember her telling me that on the phone. I just absolutely, absolutely dying laughing.

DB: I went to my grandmother's house one time and she had this-- I still have the lamp in my bedroom. But she had this lamp, it had no shade and it was green and I just-- oh I wanted that lamp. Larry and I-- it was, we had just got-- been married a few years and you could take things like that on the airplane then--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --and so, she gave-- they lived in Farmington, New Mexico. So she gave me that lamp and I remember my grandad saying, "Why do you always give away our best stuff?"

MH: (Laughter)

DB: And this thing had been out in the garage for who knows how long--

MH: Yeah!

TH: Yeah.

DB: --but he was saying-- accusing her of giving away their best stuff and she'd 01:29:00say "Well, they're gonna use it."

TH: Well, you have to understand what makes these people-- you know.

MH: Well my mother would save-- which maybe a lot of people do, my brother does it. I couldn't do it, drives me nuts. You know like the baggies? You use a baggy to put something in the fridge?

DB: And wash it out and use it again--

MH: My mother would wash them out and that was the-- do you do that too?

DB: No, my mother does though.

MH: Oh, and that's from the depr--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --I mean that is not having much--

DB: She saves aluminum foil too. (Laughter)

MH: Yes, mother did. Yes.

DB: Yes.

MH: Yes. Yeah, so it's, you know.

DB: It's all from that time period and I learned from someone whose parents had been through that, so I had those tendencies. That I'll save a little bit of food--

MH: Right, well I do that too.

DB: Or I want to take care to reuse things--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --when I can. Maybe not to the extreme she does--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --but you know, we're all effected. Your generous with what you have, 01:30:00because of what you saw parents do. Because they had seen--

MH: Right.

DB: --their parents do it and we are.

MH: But you know, it's interesting. My dad was so spoiled and he would tell you he was spoiled and he was worshipped. They worshipped the ground he walked on and because when he was adopted, they were called and told that they had a girl. My grandmother wanted a girl. Of course I told you the second story--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --the second. So they-- and Tracy Kelly told this story at my dad's funeral. They went to Kansas City to get this little girl and they go to this big home-- I mean an establishment, not a home home.

DB: Right.

MH: But they called it a home and they said, "Okay, she's"-- they walked in 01:31:00this, it would be like a big dorm-- a ward, they called it.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: There were all these cribs and the little girl was supposedly across the room at the other end. Well they-- so they're walking to go see her and they walk by this crib where this child is just screaming and crying and just going crazy and my grandfather stopped and he said, "We'll take that one." and it was my dad.

DB: (Gasp) Oh how awesome!

TH: That's a great story.

DB: That is a good story.

TH: You've never told me that.

MH: Oh yes I have.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: (Laughter) I couldn't remember.

MH: Yeah.

DB: You didn't remember it. That is unbelievable.

TH: I'm always in trouble for not remembering.

MH: And so my dad always said-- and he said this all the time, "I believe in 01:32:00miracles." Because from that moment was a miracle and when he was-- when my mother was pregnant with me, my dad was real worried that he would pass something along to me. Because he had no-- no genuine relatives and so my grandmother wrote a letter to the home--

DB: Where he had come from.

MH: Where he had come from, and said she wanted as much information as possible. And I have the letter that they wrote her back, and his-- they told her that there was nothing to, you know be concerned about. His father had been in his 01:33:00forties and was an attorney and they were from back east. His mother who had been sent to this place in Kansas City had come from a wealthy family. She was like nineteen or twenty and she was a legal secretary.

DB: So they were--

MH: So you kind of put together the story behind that.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And talked about her physical descriptions. Talked about his dads and you know, so that was-- you know. His fears were put aside--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --but he was so concerned and when I graduated, when I graduated from Bristow, I went to KU to college and when I was I think maybe a junior, there was big article in the Kansas City paper about-- it was around the time that 01:34:00they were forcing adoption records to-- they were start trying to get some of them opened. And there was a lawsuit against the home which was still existed that my dad had come from in Kansas City.

DB: Hmm.

MH: And that all of these people were signing on to this lawsuit to force them to open their records. And I remember calling home and telling daddy about it and saying, "You need to do this, you know here is who you contact" you know blah blah blah. And he said, "No." and I said, "What, you why?" you know and he said, "I had the best parents anybody could've ever wanted. I was blessed. That's all I need to know."

DB: There you go.

MH: So he never would--

DB: Well and his fears also had been taken care of when they told him that 01:35:00little bit that they told him, so.

MH: And we all turned out semi-normal. So--

(Laughter)

TH: You're more than semi-normal.

DB: (Laughter)

MH: Well and so--

TH: You're outstanding.

MH: No, well and then there's a great-- I'm sure you've talked to a Kelly somewhere along the line. There's a great story about my dad and Tracy Kelly. They played together, they were the same age, they played together as kids. And there's a story, Tracy told this at my dad's funeral. This was a true story. One day he was-- Tracy came over here to play with daddy.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And daddy got tired of Tracy.

DB: (Laughter)

MH: So he-- the story was a hammer. I don't know if it was a real hammer, but he 01:36:00picked up a hammer and hit Tracy in the head.

DB: Oh my.

MH: And so he started screaming and crying. My dad went and got on the phone and he called Dorcas and he said, "You need to come get Tracy--

(Laughter)

MH: --he won't stop crying and I'm tired of playing with him!"

(Laughter)

MH: And they were like six years old or something like that.

DB: Oh! Oh my goodness!

MH: Yeah, they were just little boys--

DB: The little boy called Dorcas.

MH: Yes!

DB: Oh!

MH: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

DB: Oh my goodness.

MH: 'Cause see all those families--

DB: He's crying and he won't stop--

MH: Crying. Yeah. You know 'cause they were and you go back and like my grandparent Hughes. My Hughes, the Hughes side, they were big in the Methodist Church. They were instrumental in getting that education building built.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, it's just-- there's so much that's-- all that history's dying off.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know?

DB: And it's just like what we found out with the Mose LeForce story. Everything is always connected to something else. Even though it was earlier in his than your story--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --it's all still kind of connected.

MH: And when I was-- I was an adult living in Lawrence. This was maybe back in the eighties and I was at a community theatre play and its intermission and these-- this couple-- I started visiting with the couple sitting next to me and they told me they were from Oklahoma and they had come to see their student at KU. I said, "Well I grew up in Oklahoma" and the guy said, "Really, where?" and 01:38:00I said, "Oh, you've never heard of it." He said, "Well try me." And I said, "It's a little town outside of Tulsa, called Bristow." And he said, "Bristow?" he said, "There's--" he said, "I know something about Bristow." He said, "There's a real famous athlete from Bristow." And I said, "Really?"

(Laughter)

MH: And he goes, "Yeah! Real famous." I said, "What's his name?" and he said, "Clyde LeForce" I said, "Oh, Clyde. Clyde's just Clyde."

(Laughter)

DB: He's not famous. Yes.

MH: I've known him my whole life.

DB: Yes.

MH: You know; it was just-- but that was so strange.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, just to have that--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Your parents are friends and then your friends and you know.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And we didn't even know each other so.

DB: Now think hard Mr. Herman.

TH: Well what do you want--

DB: Make sure that we have covered everything.

TH: Oh! We haven't even scratched the surface ma'am.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: No, this was a nice, pleasant place to grow up and like I said, we kind of had the run of the town. You knew what you could do, and couldn't do. Everybody kind of looked after everybody.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: And had a life-- a lot of lifelong friends.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: The public school was-- I looked back on it and think about some of the teachers I had. They were pretty good teachers. But I went off to college and I wanted to be a teacher and a coach and I never taught a day. Couldn't make a living.

DB: Hmm.

TH: And that's another long story.

DB: Where'd you go to school?

TH: Well I wound up going to school at Alva, Oklahoma at Northwest Oklahoma State. That's where I graduated from.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TH: And I'd gone down to OU as a invited walk on. Stayed three days and left. I was not near as good as I thought I was.

(Laughter)

TH: And I was always ashamed about that but anyway, went up to Central State and enrolled and went to school up there and quite frankly, I was very immature. I couldn't stay out of the beer joints and Oklahoma City had all these honky tonks, and I had a fake ID that said I was twenty-one when I was nineteen or twenty. You could buy one of those for five dollars from the print shop at 01:41:00Edmond. They'd make you up one and I had bad grades and you know if you don't go to class--

MH: You flunked it out, Todd!

TH: I didn't flunk out.

MH: (Laughter)

DB: You were not gonna go through that first grade thing again.

MH: No. Right. Yeah.

TH: I was gonna go ahead and volunteer for the army 'cause you had the military draft back then and I-- my mother had a friend. She was my friend too, her name was Marie Arthurs. Her husband was Judge Arthurs, he was a superior court judge. Not district court, Oklahoma still had the superior court--

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: --system back then. And she came over at Christmas and she had gone to Alva to teach and she was over there and my mother was so upset with me--

MH: Well they were all long time family here. I don't know if you've heard about the Arthurs at all, but.

TH: Yeah, the Arthurs family. She called me and she said, "Would you come over." She lived right next door to the Schumacher funeral home.

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: There was a house there. That's where they lived. Well her son is my friend that lives in Cushing.

DB: Mm-hmm. I remember that name.

TH: And Stewart (ph) was Stewart was--

MH: He was sword fighting with him. (Laughter)

TH: Yeah. That sword fighting buddy.

DB: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TH: Stewart (ph) had gone up there out of college. Stewart (ph) was a great athlete and she came over and said, "Todd, I've called the football coach at Alva. He's expecting you to come up and visit with him tomorrow." That's the way she put it. She said, "I hope you go."

DB: And you went.

MH: Mm-hmm.

TH: So the next morning, I left and I drove up to Alva. I never seen a wheat 01:43:00field that big in my life.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: I had to stop and ask a guy. I said, "What's all that green stuff growing out there?" and he says, "Son, that's winter wheat." They didn't grow any winter wheat around here. Corn and milo and cotton and stuff like that. I remember seeing that, and anyway I went up there and met the football coach, and he said, "Yeah" he said, "Come on up and I'll give you a little scholarship." And so hell, I went and there was about three of us that wound up going up there to school. Burton Lincoln (ph) and Duwayne Whited (ph) and I don't know. So I went up there and went to school.

DB: And played ball?

TH: Yeah! You know, hell I hadn't had a-- I hadn't had a shoulder pads or helmet on three years.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: And I had chances to go to small schools out of high school, but my dad 01:44:00always talked me out of it. My dad was a very negative person. You know, everything was the dark at the end of the tunnel and I am definitely not that way. I'm the light at the end of the tunnel, we'll get to the end of the tunnel if there's a problem, we'll figure it out.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: She gets mad at me for saying that they'll figure it out.

MH: (Laughter)

TH: And she worries. Mary D.'s a planner and a plotter and I'm not. I just kind of fly by the side of my pants, and anyway I went up there and here's all these ole boys and there were a couple of guys that I had gone to high school with that were up there and I went up there and I wound up playing and graduating. It 01:45:00was a big deal when I graduated and I never did teach and I wound up, I was in the international guard and I did that so I didn't-- I was about to get drafted. And this was Pre-Vietnam but I didn't wasn't to get drafted in the army 'cause I talked to too many draftees. If you can avoid it, do it. But anyway, did that and went to work for an oil field chemical company and lived up in Kansas and went through a marriage and left and came back to Oklahoma and wound up going to work for a big insurance company, being an insurance salesman. My God, I didn't want to be an insurance salesman.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: But it was a good thing I did and I worked for this company for twenty-six years.

DB: Oh my.

TH: And I retired when I was fifty-seven. And I've had a good life, I've-- it's like ole Levi. I said, "You know you grow up, you want to be a play boy." And I don't mean a play boy--

DB: Right.

TH: Play boy. I mean, live the good life.

DB: That's right.

TH: Levi loves to hunt. I've corrupted him and I've corrupted his brother Michael. Those guys can do it all.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: You know?

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: They've been taught how to shoot. They've all got nice guns and they're my students. That's what I call em'. They just got through taking a taxidermy class. You outta see the deer they made and the ducks.

MH: (Laughter)

DB: Oh my goodness.

TH: I'm proud of em'. They can do all that stuff.

DB: Well of course! You should be.

TH: And--

DB: And Levi and Michael are your?

TH: That's my great nephews.

MH: Great nephews.

DB: Great nephews.

TH: That's my niece, Kelly's (ph) children.

DB: Okay.

TH: And when she called me up when Levi, I think was nine and Michael was eleven and said "Oh Todd, these boys are just bugging me. They want to go hunting so bad." And it was about three days, four days before deer season, so hell I gathered em' up and we go to learn how to shoot a rifle one afternoon. They get 01:47:00to go deer hunting and kill a deer opening day and I remember Levi calling his mother on the cell phone jumping up and down, "I killed a deer mom, I killed a deer!"

DB: (Laughter)

TH: You know.

MH: Todd just has one sister so that's--

TH: Anyway, there-- I don't have any actual children. I have-- I raised a couple of kids with my second wife that didn't turn out too well. The boys dead and the girls-- the girls just--

MH: Has issues.

TH: --she has a lot of issues. But, she had two children. Two little girls and we helped raise those two little girls and so I'm close to them. (Indecipherable) I went over there, took a birthday gift to the seven-year-old and the three-year-old comes up and she says, "Where's the tacos papa?"

DB: (Laughter)

TH: 'Cause I always take 'em a box of tacos. They love tacos.

DB: You forgot the tacos.

TH: I didn't take the tacos, and the three-year-old comes up, "Where's the tacos papa?" (Laughter).

DB: Hmm.

TH: Anyway, that's just part of my-- that has nothing to do with Bristow. But my mother was here and my dad. My dad was in the nursing home for sixteen months and I was down here two or three weeks to check on him and to check on my mother and then my father passed away and mother was here by herself and I was here every Thursday. It was hair day, and Walmart day, and grocery store day, and Kemps day, and all that. Looked after mother and was very sad when she died. And anyway, I wound up back down here and I met Mary D. at the bank. She sucked me 01:49:00right in.

DB: (Laughter)

TH: You did, didn't you?

MH: Mm-hmm. That was a long time ago.

TH: Yeah it was. That's-- how long you-- how long have we been married? Let's see if she can remember?

MH: (Laughter) I always have to figure it up.

TH: Well-

MH: Fifteen years?

TH: Oct. Sixth.

MH: Fifteen years this year.

TH: Yeah.

DB: Fifteen years.

MH: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't think I would've liked him if (Laughter) when we were growing up.

TH: No, she wouldn't of.

MH: He was quite the (Indecipherable). What was it you won every year as a big wheel? Loudest--

TH: Most mischievous.

MH: Mischievous! Yeah.

TH: Yeah.

DB: Oh my goodness.

TH: Embarrassed my mother and my dad. "That's all you do."

DB: (Laughter)

TH: Weren't you most likely to succeed and smartest?

MH: No.

DB: Instead of Mischievous.

TH: No I'm just-- I am. You are what you are!

DB: That is!

TH: Isn't that the truth?

DB: That is the absolute truth.

TH: And I have had-- I'll have to say this, the experiences that I had growing up in Bristow have served me well, I have many friends. I'll give an example, on Tuesday of this week was the opening day of turkey season.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: It's a tradition that myself and two of my friends open the season together. There-- we're all Bristow boys.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: My two friends don't live here, but this is still home. Their parents are buried here; they will be buried here.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: I will be buried here in Bristow. This is home. We have all these pleasant memories--

DB: That's right.

TH: --about running up and down these streets here on west-- the west side of town.

MH: And it's so different than it used to be.

DB: Mm-hmm.

TH: Yeah.

DB: I mean there are factions around, you know little groups around town that I 01:51:00feel like there's that same connection to the town, but they're few and far between. And most of them have connections that go back, and back, and back and they're just continuing the tradition with their children. I mean Linda and her-- I see her children raising their children in the same way with the craziness and the--

MH: Right.

DB: The playing and I mean the stories that she used to tell living on Sixth Street and it was just like there's that past.

TH: Sixth Street was the big time street. This-- I was raised on Ninth Street. My two friends that I was telling you about-- one of them was raised over here on Eighth street, the house is still there. The other one was raised up on Tenth Street.

MH: Oh and see we had like the house behind here. That was the John's family.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: And they had four kids. We were each the same age as the other one.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, Judd Johns. You know Judd?

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Okay, he and my brother, they were like a year apart and they-- we, the four was each other's family. We were together all the time and our bedroom was up here and Billy-- the oldest one-- his bedroom was on the back part of the house also. And when we were kids we would raise our windows and you know we listened to WLS out of Chicago, cause that was the station-- the rock station--

TH: That's right.

MH: --that you could get at night.

TH: That and WOAI

MH: Yeah.

TH: In San Antonio.

MH: And we would turn our radios on the same station and we would just talk out the back windows. We had phones but you know, we used to keep their Santa gifts in our house and you know Judd and my brother when they were little boys, the Kirchner's lived on the corner up here and Billy, Mick (ph) and Judd were playing detectives. Now they are little kids and they go knock on Mrs. Kirchner's door and they had had no children and they were old at the time. And they said, "We need to come check out your house." And she said, "Why?" and they told her something about, "Well there was a suspect." I'm sure they didn't use the name suspect, but they had to go check out her house and she let them in. She let 'em go through all of the whole-- and of course and then I'm sure she 01:54:00called my mom and Virginia, you know. But you know, there were the Johns-- Virginia Johns used to keep pop on her back porch and that was in bottles and you'd have the cases and--

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: --they bottled, okay. Well there was a family by the name of the Coburgs (ph) that lived two or three doors up, a bunch of kids. Well the Coburgs (ph) would come and get into the pop all the time.

DB: Hmm.

MH: So Virginia-- the mom-- Judd's mother, who was a riot. She thought, "I'm gonna get them." So she took some of those pop bottles and she opened 'em and she poured half the pop out and then filled the rest with vinegar or something foul and then put the cap back on. (Laughter)

DB: Oh my goodness.

MH: I mean I could talk for hours about stories about growing up here with you 01:55:00know, and the kids. But it's like Todd said, everybody knew everybody. You 01:56:00couldn't get away with doing anything.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: You know, when we would go trick-or-treating people would set up haunted houses in their homes, and you'd go in and you never thought anything about it. And our parents weren't with us we were just in gangs.

DB: Mm-hmm.

MH: Walking the streets and it's just-- my boys didn't grow up that way. You couldn't you just didn't do that; you know?

DB: Well when I moved here, I was impressed because I had never lived-- I had lived in Tulsa--

MH: Mm-hmm.

DB: --and then I had lived in Owasso. I had never lived someplace where they would close Main Street for whatever function and you could just walk around in the middle of the road.